# A little help please... thanks



## mar1n93 (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok, so im about to finish my 1st Test E only cycle(next week will be my 12th week) but i wanted to continue the cycle..
I wanted to finish off with some TREN A for about 6-8weeks.. 
Something like this 
Mon,wed,fri,and sat- 50mg of tren a =200mgweek
And just keep the test e at 250 a week... 
What do you guys think???
I have clomid and nolva ready for pct but i wanted to do this..


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 7, 2015)

First cycle?  Wait on the tren buddy. Continue on just test if u want to extend the cycle.


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## Jada (Jun 7, 2015)

Do ur self a favor and end ur cycle , this ain't a race. It's a learning experience  .


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## bvs (Jun 7, 2015)

bad idea man. there is no need to rush, especially with tren. if you want to stay on you could continue the test for another few weeks and then do the pct you had planned


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## curtisvill (Jun 7, 2015)

No.  No.  No.  Finish your cycle, follow proper pct protocol, and enjoy the gains.


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## NbleSavage (Jun 7, 2015)

I'd finish the cycle as planned and assess the results. If you're unhappy with what you've accomplished, determine why and what you'll do differently next cycle. Be targeted and disciplined in your AAS use and you'll make good gains over time & learn much along the way.


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## kingsamson (Jun 7, 2015)

tren / test is a great first cycle
you will start looking like a bodybuulder pretty fast

i wouldnt come off, great idea to continue save the pct run the tren test
then reases maybe you just wana cruise on lose test and get bloods if your worried

still a very light cycle 200mg tren is nothing
250mg test is literally nothing lol


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 7, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> tren / test is a great first cycle
> you will start looking like a bodybuulder pretty fast
> 
> i wouldnt come off, great idea to continue save the pct run the tren test
> ...


I am starting to think you don't realize the audience you are addressing with posts like this.

Most users are just gym rats. Not competitors.

Most of them are young and want immediate results. But are not willing to work for them.

Most do not fully comprehend what a life long committment to injections really means.

There is no such thing as a dose of test or tren that is "nothing." They are suppresive.


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## kingsamson (Jun 7, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> I am starting to think you don't realize the audience you are addressing with posts like this.
> 
> Most users are just gym rats. Not competitors.
> 
> ...




why should the be lied too?
they should know the truth - i have never pcted - i have never come off once i started
he said its his frist cycle im aware hes just starting

im telling him how to get results fast i am answering his question

why should he waste his time spinning his wheels with this short cycles with test only
hes never gona get anywhere and then pct on top of it... he will quite bodybuild soon due to these lies
hes already using so coming off doesnt really change the commitment - pct or not


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 7, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> why should the be lied too?
> they should know the truth - i have never pcted - i have never come off once i started
> he said its his frist cycle im aware hes just starting
> 
> ...


I know plenty of guys who make great gains cycling like a normal person. Because they understand nutrition and hard work and dedication.

Steroids are not a solution. They are are a supplement.

Getting into tren on a first cycle prevents you from going up the learning curve at a reasonable rate.  The number of posts we see across the boards from guys running tren or deca on their first cycles and running into issues with no clue how to handle them is terrifying to me.  It also gives aas a bad rap.


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 7, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> why should the be lied too?
> they should know the truth - i have never pcted - i have never come off once i started
> he said its his frist cycle im aware hes just starting
> 
> ...



Hey KP tell us how old you are and how long you have been running gear.


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## wabbitt (Jun 7, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> why should the be lied too?
> they should know the truth - i have never pcted - i have never come off once i started
> he said its his frist cycle im aware hes just starting
> 
> ...


Well hell, why not just skip all the bullshit and buy some synthol?


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## curtisvill (Jun 8, 2015)

wabbitt said:


> Well hell, why not just skip all the bullshit and buy some synthol?



I just shot some water out of my nose this had me laughing my a$$ off.


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## kingsamson (Jun 8, 2015)

wabbitt said:


> Well hell, why not just skip all the bullshit and buy some synthol?



lol nah synthol is cheating
i dont like that shit never used it


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 8, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> why should the be lied too?
> they should know the truth - i have never pcted - i have never come off once i started
> he said its his frist cycle im aware hes just starting
> 
> ...



You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. That much is evident.


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## kingsamson (Jun 8, 2015)

yes yes you all share a very similar mindset I see that
anyone with different opinions gets harassed 

trust me theres many that would agree with me - most are real bodybuilders
maybe this board isnt for competitive athletes just gym rats

but not everyone shares your mindset this kid wants to run tren he should be able to run tren
and not be discouraged from looking like a bodybuilder 
maybe help him acheive his goals instead of having him waste his time


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## TriniJuice (Jun 8, 2015)

Is this Hulksmash new handle......


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## mar1n93 (Jun 8, 2015)

Ok guys so ive been training since i was 17 (22now) so thats 5yrs of training and 3yrs with good diet.. i went from 120 to 160 naturally and with this cycle im at 175-177..im 5'6.. i know u might think im too young but every guy i know that pins started young and they are in very goos shape and still healthy.. 
I see alot of posts saying not to run tren in 1st cycle because of sides or because you should learn how to cycle with test and see how your body reacts.. but tren sides will come if they are gonna come weather in your 1st or 5th cycle. So why not use it? Just saying guys.. i just want to get as much info as i can on it.. thanks


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 8, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> yes yes you all share a very similar mindset I see that
> anyone with different opinions gets harassed
> 
> trust me theres many that would agree with me - most are real bodybuilders
> ...



Goals are achieved through proper nutrition, hard hard work, and the dedication/motivation to consistently repeat this day in and day out. Not from steroids. Gear does nothing without those listed above. 

You want to call us gym rats than im ok with that. Everyone is a gym rat wether they compete or not and I see nothing wrong with that. These so called competitors you keep referencing to would do nothing but agree with me as to reach the competitive level they would have already learned this. There is no way to make continual progress without proper nutrition and hard work no matter how much gear you take.

We all do share a certain mindset here because we have already learned what the foundation of body building is made from and its not steroids. This brings me back to a question I have asked you twice and you have completely ignored....

How old are you?


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 8, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> Ok guys so ive been training since i was 17 (22now) so thats 5yrs of training and 3yrs with good diet.. i went from 120 to 160 naturally and with this cycle im at 175-177..im 5'6.. i know u might think im too young but every guy i know that pins started young and they are in very goos shape and still healthy..
> I see alot of posts saying not to run tren in 1st cycle because of sides or because you should learn how to cycle with test and see how your body reacts.. but tren sides will come if they are gonna come weather in your 1st or 5th cycle. So why not use it? Just saying guys.. i just want to get as much info as i can on it.. thanks



I can almost garantee you your diet is not that good. No one is saying you cant do tren but you havnt even finished a test cycle yet. Your in a hurry and I get that...i honestly do...everyone here does but the faster you learn to slow down the faster you will learn how to grow. Steroids are not healthy either. They destroy your cholesterol, raise your bp and heart rate, cause hypertrophy of the heart ect ect so have some patience man you have so many years ahead of you. Start working on making your diet better...tweak some things...get rid of some not the best yhings and add in some better things. Learn your bodies caloric and macro nutrient needs. Dont blow your first tren cycle on the tail end of a test only cycle. Wait to use it till you have your diet much more dialed in and you can start the tren from the beginning...you will thank me for this tid bit because if I could redo my first tren cycle there would have been some things I would have changed. No cycle will be as good as your last so dont blow your first.


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## Luscious Lei (Jun 8, 2015)

It's not only about learning how to cycle. That's a large part of it but another important aspect is recovery.

Most people will recover fine from a test cycle. Then, as their experience increase, they can add other compounds like orals or other non 19-nor injectables.
Then if they've recovered fine they can think about trying to cycle with 19-nors or go B&C.
The reality is 19-nors are much harder on the HPTA than other compounds and that there's a world between recovering from a test only cycle and recovering from a tren or nand cycle.
Of course if OP follows KS advice then there's no recovery to think about.
However suggesting to someone to B&C right off the bat is terrible advice IMO. As POB mentioned, how could we know that OP has planned a life dedicated to competition? The vast majority of juicers will simply cycle, and many, many of them will live the lifestyle for a few years and then stop or just work out casually because professional or family life gets in the way.
Pinning for life, with all what it implies, is NOT a decision that should be made lightly and without knowledge, and you def not have this knowledge when you haven't even finished your fist cycle.


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 8, 2015)

Kingsamson why don't u show us a picture of yourself and show us what a bodybuilder should look like that has never came off gear.


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 8, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> yes yes you all share a very similar mindset I see that
> anyone with different opinions gets harassed
> 
> trust me theres many that would agree with me - most are real bodybuilders
> ...



I am going to continue not lobbing personal insults at you...

Consider what a tiny fraction of the population that actually possesses the genetic material to make a bodybuilder. He is 22 - done with puberty. And he weighs under 180lbs after years of training.

Tren isn't his solution. Diet is.

The problem here isn't group think. It's that we are ethical.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 8, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> yes yes you all share a very similar mindset I see that
> anyone with different opinions gets harassed
> 
> trust me theres many that would agree with me - most are real bodybuilders
> ...



This board isn't for competitive athletes?

Let's see: Admin, POB, DYS, Steelers, AlphaD, Exksrsted, Joliver, Big Worm, SFG, snake, myself and many more are all competitive athletes. Nice try but another fail


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## mar1n93 (Jun 8, 2015)

I'm u der 200lbs because i want to.. im only 5'6 i would look ridiculous being that big.. its not my goal honestly, i want to be under 200lbs lean and fit.. kind of like beach body or like the Mr physique type..i would say 190lbs Tops..


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## Luscious Lei (Jun 8, 2015)

Now that you've stated your goals I'm curious to see if KS still recommends you to go down the B&C route...


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 8, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> I'm u der 200lbs because i want to.. im only 5'6 i would look ridiculous being that big.. its not my goal honestly, i want to be under 200lbs lean and fit.. kind of like beach body or like the Mr physique type..i would say 190lbs Tops..



You could easily get to that without steroids at all bro. It took me years to figure out how much the right diet will do for you and once I did it was a massive eye opener. Find a coach that can figure out your diet for you...you would most likely see the same results from that without test as you did from your first test cycle. My advice to you is to pct and start your journey with using food for your gains.


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## kingsamson (Jun 8, 2015)

Cobra Strike said:


> You could easily get to that without steroids at all bro. It took me years to figure out how much the right diet will do for you and once I did it was a massive eye opener. Find a coach that can figure out your diet for you...you would most likely see the same results from that without test as you did from your first test cycle. My advice to you is to pct and start your journey with using food for your gains.



LOL he can get to 5'6 at 190 naturally???? maybe like 20+%bf 

if he wants a model look he has to be lean natural limit of 5'6 at 6%bf is what hmm ~143lbs
thats your natty limit my freind you wont get anywhere NEAR a lean 190 without hgh and insulin!!! 

and they are telling you can anturally yea you can you will be very very fat cant believe what im reading

you asked KP how old are you no idea who kp is? so why would i answer
still not going to anyone who reads my posts can tell i know a thing of two

190 naturally at 5'6 i cant believe what i am reading 

5'10 6% 190 is a BIG!!!!!

but 5'6 stop lieing to the kid


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## kingsamson (Jun 8, 2015)

and yes nutrition is very important
i assume people know this shit when starting gear so with that you are correct

OP you should lay out diet for your goals so people can correct that for you as well

but he only asked about gear so i assume everything else is in check that is my mistake


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 8, 2015)

Even using gear you're not going to be 6% for very long unless you have ridiculous genetics. You're condemning him to a life of needles when there's no need to. Your advice is harmful at best.


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 8, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> LOL he can get to 5'6 at 190 naturally???? maybe like 20+%bf
> 
> if he wants a model look he has to be lean natural limit of 5'6 at 6%bf is what hmm ~143lbs
> thats your natty limit my freind you wont get anywhere NEAR a lean 190 without hgh and insulin!!!
> ...



KP = KingParrot

You assume his diet is correct? Do you have any idea what it takes to eat like a pro? Its not something you can just start doing...it takes years of training yourself how to eat. 

So how old are you KP? Not that it matters now cause you will probably be lying


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## kingsamson (Jun 8, 2015)

????

its his first cycle why is he eating like a pro? what are you talking about


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## kingsamson (Jun 8, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Even using gear you're not going to be 6% for very long unless you have ridiculous genetics. You're condemning him to a life of needles when there's no need to. Your advice is harmful at best.



we diet down - no one said sustainable - well at least not with out hgh

ill re explain then

anyone who decides to use should accept that they may have to sick a needle in their ass once a week for the rest of their life
pct or not you should have this decision made in your head already


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## kingsamson (Jun 8, 2015)

Cobra Strike said:


> KP = KingParrot
> 
> You assume his diet is correct? Do you have any idea what it takes to eat like a pro? Its not something you can just start doing...it takes years of training yourself how to eat.
> 
> So how old are you KP? Not that it matters now cause you will probably be lying



and very clever kingparrot yes good

i just called you out on your lies maybe adress those instead of bullshitting around

5'6 natty limit at 5.5-6% is 143 and thats if you dedicate every second of your life to BB thats if you have creme of the crop genetics
most will be closer to 135

im condeming him to a life of pinning
your condeming him to a life of being a small twink ****, or just really fat 
deffnintly not muscular


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## Paolos (Jun 8, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> and very clever kingparrot yes good
> 
> i just called you out on your lies maybe adress those instead of bullshitting around
> 
> ...




Kingsamson I don't even know where to start but I don't believe what you are recommending.

If you consider yourself a role model, do you really think its a good idea to recommend telling a newbie to skip from
A and go right to Z in the anabolic world? Please think about it and you don't have to respond. 

You know whats right and there's only one way you would say otherwise.....That's if you are a newbie (and I'm starting to think that)
and you are in the same boat. An honest vet would never tell a newbie to go right to Tren and  never come off.
Being able to rattle off compounds and their intended use does not make you a vet we can see thru that.

90% of EVERYBODYS gains come from diet.... That cover the fat ass in the gym to the IFBB pro.

I'm not preaching to you only stating the facts


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 8, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> we diet down - no one said sustainable - well at least not with out hgh
> 
> ill re explain then
> 
> ...



You're missing the point or ignoring it and deflecting. 

That risk is assumed yes. The problem is you're forcing it on him prematurely.


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## DF (Jun 8, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> Ok, so im about to finish my 1st Test E only cycle(next week will be my 12th week) but i wanted to continue the cycle..
> I wanted to finish off with some TREN A for about 6-8weeks..
> Something like this
> Mon,wed,fri,and sat- 50mg of tren a =200mgweek
> ...



Seems your thread got a bit jacked here.

I just want to clarify your cycle is 250mg/week for 12 weeks?


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## mar1n93 (Jun 8, 2015)

Lol i know man... 
Nope my cycle is 500mg test e for 12 weeks and im in week 11.. but i wanted to continue the cycle for another 6or8 weeks using tren a and lowering test to 250 week..


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 8, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> Lol i know man...
> Nope my cycle is 500mg test e for 12 weeks and im in week 11.. but i wanted to continue the cycle for another 6or8 weeks using tren a and lowering test to 250 week..



It got jacked lol but there is plenty of info there that should make your decision obvious.


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## TheBlob (Jun 9, 2015)

kingsamson said:


> why should the be lied too?
> they should know the truth - i have never pcted - i have never come off once i started
> he said its his frist cycle im aware hes just starting
> 
> ...




 To a degree I totally see where you are coming from to be honest. However I really think that when people start making decisions to cruise on say tren or the like a person should really be at the point where they are in no need to ask questions like (hey can I extend my cycle, etc etc.) I honestly think its best for a first time around to really just do a normally recommended cycle. Especially if your getting your cycle protocol off of internet boards. Pillar of Balance is right dude. You really have to consider the audience you are talking to. Honestly if he does this one test cycle loves it comes off, and the fire gets lit under his ass he may end up going all out and becoming a bb'er but getting there really is part of the journey and learning what you are comfortable with and making informed decisions on your own body... I dont think the op is really at a point yet where he is ready for that...


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## TheBlob (Jun 9, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> Lol i know man...
> Nope my cycle is 500mg test e for 12 weeks and im in week 11.. but i wanted to continue the cycle for another 6or8 weeks using tren a and lowering test to 250 week..




 Hey bub try this out instead.... Your obviously having a good run... So cycle off for a couple weeks during that time get all the shit together you need for your next cycle. And if you wanna get a little aggressive and up the ante a bit. Run some test again I mean if you had zero problems (which likely you had none, so lets keep it that way) then bump that bad boy up to about 750 AT THE MOST. Run some Nandrolone 400mg a week with it, and take an oral like dbol 25 (you could potentially bump that up a little too but start at 25) everyday for a few weeks at the beginning. TRUST ME dude that cycle will give you ****ing amazing results I promise.. That is a much more aggressive cycle and in my humble opinion very comfortable.. I see you wanna push the envelope and this cycle will do just that bud
Tren can be as uncomfortable as hell trust me. Is tren amazing? yup. is it necessary? nope. Will the above mentioned cycle have people asking you what the hell you been eating? yup.


P.S. Yes gang I realize this cycle is not the typical 2nd cycle recommendation but if someone is trying to jump in both feet and hell bent on it than I think this might be a good way to good


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## mar1n93 (Jun 9, 2015)

Sounds like a good cycle.. just worried about getting Deca dick lol  but with test at 750 i wont have an issue i believe..


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## DF (Jun 9, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> Lol i know man...
> Nope my cycle is 500mg test e for 12 weeks and im in week 11.. but i wanted to continue the cycle for another 6or8 weeks using tren a and lowering test to 250 week..



Ah, good starting cycle.  I'd recommend just extending the cycle to 16 weeks.  How have the gains been?  Getting any sides? High BP? bloat ECT ??  The guys have some good advice here.  You are pretty young & new to gear.  It sounds like you have goals in mind tjat really wouldn't require you to blast & cruise.  Continue to plan & bulk with a few cycles under your belt.  Then plan a decent Tren cycle.


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## NbleSavage (Jun 9, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> Sounds like a good cycle.. just worried about getting Deca dick lol  but with test at 750 i wont have an issue i believe..



IME 'Deca Dick' is largely a myth and is brought on by not keeping E2 in check. Get bloods, keep an AI on hand (I prefer stane) and use it as necessary & so long as you're running a Test base (750 is a bloody shot more than a base LOL) your lil' soldier will stand up and salute on command. Not necessarily advocating running Deca in your next cycle, just wanted to share my experience with the infamous 'deca dick' so that when the time is right you can go in confident & not worried about having a limp biscuit for weeks on end.


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## TheBlob (Jun 9, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> Sounds like a good cycle.. just worried about getting Deca dick lol  but with test at 750 i wont have an issue i believe..



 Yeah bud to be honest I wouldn't worry about that. But that's the point of this cycle so you can start getting familiar with other compounds and what they do exactly. So if for example like this you are worried about deca dick, whats gonna happen when you start experiencing a little sides with a more hardcore compound? In my experience novice dudes start becoming hypochondriacs and what not and cant tell whats a side and what isn,t..... I literally had a guy I know get a touch of the flu running some gear and he thought all sorts of crazy crap "OH no I cant breathe the tren is gonna kill me, hey is this stuff affecting my hearing, oh shit I have a headache my blood pressure must be up" its whoa whoa whoa bud lol... Yeah so just slow it down a bit and get to a place you are knowing what the hell is going on with your body... Obviously it would be best if you had someone with experience who wasn't a douche to roll with you. But that can be hard to find


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## Paolos (Jun 9, 2015)

NbleSavage said:


> IME 'Deca Dick' is largely a myth and is brought on by not keeping E2 in check. Get bloods, keep an AI on hand (I prefer stane) and use it as necessary & so long as you're running a Test base (750 is a bloody shot more than a base LOL) your lil' soldier will stand up and salute on command. Not necessarily advocating running Deca in your next cycle, just wanted to share my experience with the infamous 'deca dick' so that when the time is right you can go in confident & not worried about having a limp biscuit for weeks on end.



Totally agree and I'm no spring chicken


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## mar1n93 (Jun 10, 2015)

Ok guys so i made up my mind...
Im gonna cycle off do my pct
Clomid: 100-100-50-50
Nolvadex: 40-40-20-20
Once i finish my pct im gonna wait another 4weeks and start my next cycle...meanwhile ill be saving up to get everything together...
What do u guys recommend for my 2nd cycle? Besides diet, I wanna get to single digit # bf.. im at max 12bf cuz i can kind of see my abs 
Thanks guys


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 10, 2015)

Cut the clomid to 50/50/25/25

If you decided to come off and pct then you should wait longer than 4wks before getting back on another cycle. The SERMs will still be in you 4wks after pct and you won't have recovered your endogenous testosterone production by then. Although there's no real science behind it, the usual advice is time off = time on + PCT


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## mar1n93 (Jun 10, 2015)

I was also thinking on doing clomid at 
50-50-50-50 cuz my pills are 50mg/pill
Dont wanna be braking them.. hate doing it with arimdx lol
😢😢 dont wanna wait that long haha
But i will for sure.. thanks for the info bro...
Any thoughts on my 2nd cycle? I just wanna get as much ideas as possible..


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## Luscious Lei (Jun 10, 2015)

mar1n93 said:


> I was also thinking on doing clomid at
> 50-50-50-50 cuz my pills are 50mg/pill
> Dont wanna be braking them.. hate doing it with arimdx lol
> &#55357;&#56866;&#55357;&#56866; dont wanna wait that long haha
> ...



You will probably won't like the idea but you could simply run the same cycle. If you had good results with your first you will still get results from a second test cycle.
Adding compounds or raising dose after each cycle will lead you to run grams and grams of gear within a few years, which is not necessary for your goals.
You could run test with an oral kickstarter and / or finisher, like Dbol kickstarter or var finisher or both.
If you really want to add an injectable you could go for some Eq at 400 to 600 but your cycle should be fairly long, 16 to 20 weeks.
I wouldn't jump into 19-nor as second cycle, especially at your age.
Just my 0.02


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## TheQuestionaire96 (Jul 8, 2017)

cheers mate


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