# DNP and rate of fat loss



## mugzy (Oct 13, 2021)

So lets discuss DNP and the rate fat is lost while on a DNP cycle. Most if not all DNP studies are very old and were performed under different circumstances and elements than today. Some of these old studies if performed today would have to take some things into consideration such as different diets of today's foods, newer medications being used, better technology to track results, etc. Lets discuss a few questions

1. If its commonly thought that DNP will reduce fat by approx. 1 lb per day will doubling the dose result in 2 lbs. per day reduction?

2. To achieve the 1 lb. per day reduction what is the dosage required per lb/kg of bodyweight?

3. If a person is 200 lbs and 10% bodyfat will they be zero percent bodyfat after 20 days of DNP cycling?


These are some excellent questions that google would love to know and find the anwwers to here on Ugbodybuilding.


----------



## Sityslicker1 (Oct 13, 2021)

mugzy said:


> So lets discuss DNP and the rate fat is lost while on a DNP cycle. Most if not all DNP studies are very old and were performed under different circumstances and elements than today. Some of these old studies if performed today would have to take some things into consideration such as different diets of today's foods, newer medications being used, better technology to track results, etc. Lets discuss a few questions
> 
> 1. If its commonly thought that DNP will reduce fat by approx. 1 lb per day will doubling the dose result in 2 lbs. per day reduction?
> 
> ...


 

I'll bite..I've got about 10 yrs experience with the stuff and I'm not proud, but I do know a little about dnp. 

Dnp doesnt work linear like that. So if you were able to burn 1 lb of fat with a given dose and then double that dose, it won't necessarily burn 2lbs of fat, it's going to be less.

To lose 1lb a day of pure fat would require lethal doses for most people. The only people I see losing this much on moderate to high dose is the morbidly obese. On average I'd say 1/3 of a pound of fat is doable for the majority. For me at 220lbs ~12%  it would require a dose of 600-750mg per day.

With a very tight diet and a dose of 600-750mg of dnp per day, I can lose roughly 1/3lb of  fat a day. So 20 days is roughly 6-7 lbs of pure fat which is about right. Keep in mind at that dose for rhat many days your going to be a miserable human being.


----------



## MS1605 (Oct 13, 2021)

Sityslicker1 said:


> To lose 1lb a day of pure fat would require lethal doses for most people.


What do you think the lethal dose of DNP is....?


----------



## Sityslicker1 (Oct 13, 2021)

Most I ever took was 1g each day for 2 days and I felt pretty close right there. If I would of added on another cap of 200 to 250mg I'm sure I'd be in a coffin.

 At that dose your constantly going hypoglycemic, nauseated, can't get cool, no energy so your bed ridden or on the couch all day and night ..its just pure misery. I look back and can't believe what an idiot I was for pushing it so hard.


----------



## MS1605 (Oct 13, 2021)

Bro, your first comment comes with no scientific basis. There are people on this forum that have taken way more than 1g a day and lost more than 1lb per day. 

Im not getting into the debate of how smart that is but the fact is for most people based off weight and the scientific data we have, it takes over 3g to die from DNP. 

Just because you felt like death at 1g doesn't mean "1lb a day of pure fat would require lethal doses for most people." Unless we are just trying the D.A.R.E. method to scare people from higher doses.


----------



## Sityslicker1 (Oct 13, 2021)

MS1605 said:


> Bro, your first comment comes with no scientific basis. There are people on this forum that have taken way more than 1g a day and lost more than 1lb per day.
> 
> Im not getting into the debate of how smart that is but the fact is for most people based off weight and the scientific data we have, it takes over 3g to die from DNP.
> 
> Just because you felt like death at 1g doesn't mean "1lb a day of pure fat would require lethal doses for most people." Unless we are just trying the D.A.R.E. method to scare people from higher doses.


 Yes it's purely subjective. That's should be obvious my conclusions were based on my experiences. But before you get on your high horse and spit facts you best have the supporting evidence or studies backing claims or your information is just as creditable as mine


----------



## MS1605 (Oct 13, 2021)

1. If its commonly thought that DNP will reduce fat by approx. 1 lb per day will doubling the dose result in 2 lbs. per day reduction?     

As both Sity and Zilla has posted many times, there is a point of diminishing returns. I believe everyone reacts different on DNP and where you land on the spectrum of those diminishing returns is different.

 2. To achieve the 1 lb. per day reduction what is the dosage required per lb/kg of bodyweight?      

This is a trick question. I guess the answer is 1lb of fat can be lost per day at any amount of DNP. 5mg, 200mg, 1G... If you are burning 3500cals more than you consume in a day you are going to loose a lb of body fat. Thermogenics is Thermogenics. I guess the better question to ask is, How much of a metabolic increase do you get from X amount of DNP.

3. If a person is 200 lbs and 10% bodyfat will they be zero percent bodyfat after 20 days of DNP cycling?      

Going along with the answer to number 2, if you do enough cardio you can burn as much or as little as you want. 



I guess maybe question 2 and 3 is assuming no extra work is being done? I.e. no working out or cardio?


----------



## MS1605 (Oct 13, 2021)

Sityslicker1 said:


> Yes it's purely subjective. That's should be obvious my conclusions were based on my experiences. But before you get on your high horse and spit facts you best have the supporting evidence or studies backing claims or your information is just as creditable as mine


If you would have kept all your comments about yourself that would have been one thing. I.e. it's impossible for YOU to burn 1lb of fat per day, YOU couldn't take more than 1g without dying, ETC, that would have been one thing. You took your experience and said it wasn't possible for others (lethal doses for most people). 

I'm just saying don't be so absolute.
I can't run a 4 minute mile but I'm not put here telling MFers a 4 minute mile is impossible and will cause death


----------



## mugzy (Oct 13, 2021)

Fellas its just a few discussion points I put as I normally do. These are good discussions and provide for a good debate and hopefully some answers.


----------



## flenser (Oct 13, 2021)

Would need a before and after DEXA scan,  and a fairly fixed diet to get any kind of reliable numerical results. And you couldn't keep testing the same person at different doses unless they were willing to gain the weight back before each run. I guess the NIH won't be funding any studies on this any time soon...


----------



## mugzy (Oct 13, 2021)

According to a 2016 case reportTrusted Source, ingestion of doses as low as 10 to 20 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (4.5 to 9.1 milligrams per pound) can be fatal.


----------



## Sityslicker1 (Oct 13, 2021)

MS1605 said:


> If you would have kept all your comments about yourself that would have been one thing. I.e. it's impossible for YOU to burn 1lb of fat per day, YOU couldn't take more than 1g without dying, ETC, that would have been one thing. You took your experience and said it wasn't possible for others (lethal doses for most people).
> 
> I'm just saying don't be so absolute.
> I can't run a 4 minute mile but I'm not put here telling MFers a 4 minute mile is impossible and will cause death



So please provide me evidence that you won't die before 3g? Or show me someone thats burned 1 lbs of pure fat in a day that's not 400 plus pounds with a dexa scan.  

Just because you tack on the words studies or scientific doesn't mean your information has any validity. You are basically doing what your trying to call me out on. And if you go back and read I took full accountability and added it was all my subjective opinion so those that cant read between the lines, its now crystal clear it's opinion.


----------



## Kraken (Oct 13, 2021)

I actually have detailed records of my DNP runs, the first being the most detailed, including daily weights and doses, and also the accumulated concentration. I'm 5ft 6in, and not a bodybuilder, preferring endurance sports. Mostly, cycling and running.

First, I think the dosage is a less important data point than the accumulated concentration in your body. Remember that for any given dosage, the concentration will eventually peak and hold fairly steady after some period of days.

I just took a look at the first 25 days. I went from 163.2 to 148.6, an average of 0.58 pounds per day. This was several days at 200 mg to start, and ended up at 550 mg, with accumulated concentration going from 200mg at start to 1.488 g after 25 days. After the first 10 days the accumulated was > 1.1g.

At this point I was eating about 800 calories per day and doing some running on a treadmill several times per week.

This was the first 25 days of a run starting in early January, 2018. The entire run went to April 13, still at about 500mg per day (concentration at about 1.4 g daily) and I only got down to 142.

To address the questions posed:

Question 1: I don't see 1 pound / day of fat loss as typical, except perhaps in people with a lot of fat to begin with. Even if it was, doubling the dosage would not necessarily double the rate of fat loss because it's not going to double the concentration that accumulates. Even then, this assumes that the DNP mechanism is linear, and there is no reason to assume that.

Question 2: See answer above.

Question 3: Who knows. My theory is that the more lean you are, the slower DNP works. It seems to me DNP picks off "low hanging fruit fat" and slows where there is less fat to begin with. It also seems to slow as a heavy person becomes more lean.

This was not originally asked, but how much is fatal? Well some people freak out at 1g as a dosage, but if it's your first day I would speculate that this is fine (I do not recommend doing that - this is purely from a dosage standpoint). As the concentration builds, that's a different story. I would avoid a concentration > 1.5g.


----------



## MS1605 (Oct 13, 2021)

mugzy said:


> According to a 2016 case reportTrusted Source, ingestion of doses as low as 10 to 20 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (4.5 to 9.1 milligrams per pound) can be fatal.


I have seen some reports that said as low as around 5mg/1lb of body weight and then I have seen reports as high as 25mg/1lb. 

I was given a fat booklet of studies by someone that is like 300 pages long but it's a physical packet. Has a shit ton of studies. I really need to buy a scanner, scan it all and post it up here. I'm sure it could be found digitally somewhere but I had a pretty decent collection of digital research papers and when I got this booklet there was definitely a bunch of newer studies that I had never seen. 

Im sure Zilla has them all memorized...


----------



## Sityslicker1 (Oct 13, 2021)

mugzy said:


> Fellas its just a few discussion points I put as I normally do. These are good discussions and provide for a good debate and hopefully some answers.



My  apologize for getting off topic.


----------



## Sityslicker1 (Oct 13, 2021)

Kraken said:


> I actually have detailed records of my DNP runs, the first being the most detailed, including daily weights and doses, and also the accumulated concentration. I'm 5ft 6in, and not a bodybuilder, preferring endurance sports. Mostly, cycling and running.
> 
> First, I think the dosage is a less important data point than the accumulated concentration in your body. Remember that for any given dosage, the concentration will eventually peak and hold fairly steady after some period of days.
> 
> ...



You make a great point differentiating b/w actually daily dose and total concentrate of dnp in your system. When I took 1g for 2 days I didn't factor in all the doses prior which was make a huge difference in actually dnp in my system.


----------



## HighHeater (Oct 22, 2021)

I like the way Kraken put it as well… not necessarily going to be 1lb/day, could really change based on ones composition. You have someone that is overweight (shouldn’t be relying in Dnp for weight loss tho) and the very well may burn more than 1-2/day bc they are now having the Dnp increase internally 3x and they are carrying that extra weight around. Often times they may eat more carb heavy and start the sweats more so. 

Someone who is lean and has less to burn, Dnp is muscle sparing for the most part so you’re gonna have less fat to burn and you’re already in good shape to which your body is accustom to the scrutiny you’re putting on it

I know I have taken Dnp at relatively the same composition from a numbers point and losses 14lbs in 20 days but also have lost 27lbs in 24 days. All in, I’d say someone that is “average” could usually see 1/lb with some variance


----------



## Beti ona (Oct 22, 2021)

mugzy said:


> According to a 2016 case reportTrusted Source, ingestion of doses as low as 10 to 20 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (4.5 to 9.1 milligrams per pound) can be fatal.



The guy ingested more than 4 grams in one go, it would be a miracle if he had survived. 

It is not the same to take 4 grams in one dose as in 10 doses over 10 days.

Apparently the guy was suicidal, he achieved his goal, but I don't know if it was the best method.


----------



## Beti ona (Oct 22, 2021)

Kraken said:


> Who knows. My theory is that the more lean you are, the slower DNP works. It seems to me DNP picks off "low hanging fruit fat" and slows where there is less fat to begin with. It also seems to slow as a heavy person becomes more lean.



DNP is like dieting or cardio, the fatter you are, the more fat you will melt. The body wants to survive, so  if you keep pushing DNP, it will lower your metabolism as your % body fat approaches 0%.


----------



## Trump (Oct 26, 2021)

Pretty sure I dropped 12lb In 14 days my first and second runs with perfect diet, working 12 hour shifts daily weight training and cardio. Started at 260lb In the end got down to 230lb. 2 week gap between them both


----------



## In2Deep (Dec 4, 2021)

I generally stick around 200mg a day and just run it longer like 21 days. I get good results with that. At 300mg a day the heat is unbearable. Im one of these people that usually don't wear a jacket in the winter not taking anything.  At 300mg a day I was sweating outside not working in temps about 15-18°F. To each there own I know some guys take much more but I'm never in a hurry and I can't see how they can even bear it.


----------



## Butch_C (Mar 1, 2022)

Holy hell, better lay off the protein with this stuff, it may cause explosive gas! Found this on wikipedia "DNP's explosive strength is 81% that of TNT, based on the Trauzl lead block test.[41] DNP was the cause of the 1916 Rainham Chemical Factory explosion which left 7 dead and 69 injured"


----------



## metsfan4life (Mar 1, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> Holy hell, better lay off the protein with this stuff, it may cause explosive gas! Found this on wikipedia "DNP's explosive strength is 81% that of TNT, based on the Trauzl lead block test.[41] DNP was the cause of the 1916 Rainham Chemical Factory explosion which left 7 dead and 69 injured"


That’s bc it can cause some serious runs. It fucks with your gut and gets absorbed in there. Trust me, you’ll wanna have some pepto around for the first 5 days just in case


----------



## RiR0 (Mar 1, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> DNP is like dieting or cardio, the fatter you are, the more fat you will melt. The body wants to survive, so  if you keep pushing DNP, it will lower your metabolism as your % body fat approaches 0%.


3500 calories burned is 3500 calories burned no matter how lean you are. 
Your body doesn’t just lower your metabolism. Generally the harder someone diets the less active they are through out the day so they end up burning less calories. The body only stops using calories when you’re dead.


----------



## In2Deep (Mar 2, 2022)

Quoting from a government study

average metabolic rate increase of 11% for every 100 mg of DNP when taken regularly









						2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP): A Weight Loss Agent with Significant Acute Toxicity and Risk of Death
					

2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP) is reported to cause rapid loss of weight, but unfortunately is associated with an unacceptably high rate of significant adverse effects. DNP is sold mostly over the internet under a number of different names as a weight loss/slimming ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




Its a good read for anyone wanting to learn more about it. 




































































































average metabolic rate increase of 11% for every 100 mg of DNP when taken regularly


----------



## Beti ona (Mar 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> 3500 calories burned is 3500 calories burned no matter how lean you are.
> Your body doesn’t just lower your metabolism. Generally the harder someone diets the less active they are through out the day so they end up burning less calories. The body only stops using calories when you’re dead.



Your metabolism slows down? I dont care,  you move less and it's harder to stay on a diet.

DNP does not always work the same, if that were true, we would reach 0% fat. But the body is smarter than your aesthetic goals and will stop you down long before you commit suicide.


----------



## Beti ona (Mar 2, 2022)

In2Deep said:


> Quoting from a government study
> 
> average metabolic rate increase of 11% for every 100 mg of DNP when taken regularly
> 
> ...



We have read all those studies hundreds of times, why create alarmism? 

And I'm not sure where that 11% metabolic boost came from, I'm not buying it. 

I'm also not sure the half-life is 36 hours, it's probably more.


----------



## RiR0 (Mar 2, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Your metabolism slows down? I dont care,  you move less and it's harder to stay on a diet.
> 
> DNP does not always work the same, if that were true, we would reach 0% fat. But the body is smarter than your aesthetic goals and will stop you down long before you commit suicide.


So it’s impossible to starve to death? Or to have body fat so low you’re organs shut down? 
It’s thermodynamics. You can reach 0% bf and you die. 
Your body uses stored calories to live. It doesn’t just stop using calories. 
You’re wrong. I’m not talking about physique goals. I’m talking about thermodynamics and literally how the body functions
The body doesn’t magically stop using calories.


----------



## Butch_C (Mar 2, 2022)

Reading about this stuff is crazy. There have been reported cases of overdose resulting in death at doses of 10mg per kilogram of body weight. So at my weight, I could die at a 1gram dose. Now what they don't say is what other issues the person/ people have along with it. Do they already have heart disease? Are they extremely obese? They say typically the cause of death is hyperthermia not heart attack, that they can not get the persons temperature down.


----------



## Beti ona (Mar 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So it’s impossible to starve to death? Or to have body fat so low you’re organs shut down?
> It’s thermodynamics. You can reach 0% bf and you die.
> Your body uses stored calories to live. It doesn’t just stop using calories.
> You’re wrong. I’m not talking about physique goals. I’m talking about thermodynamics and literally how the body functions
> The body doesn’t magically stop using calories.



No, it's not impossible, but you should use some other drugs besides DNP.

Lethargy and hunger are a response of the body to recognize a "poison" that threatens survival it causes excessive consumption of calories.

Amphetamines could help you eat even fewer calories and move a little more... but eventually insomnia will set in. And dehydration at this point practically becomes a foot in the grave.

Probably, you will die by a multiorgan failure before to reach the minimum possible % of fat.

I don't care much about thermodynamics, all experiences of DNP users report greater fat loss the fatter they are. The same as if you diet or add cardio to your program. The fatter you are, the easier it is to shred body fat.

Gear also makes you stronger, but there comes a time when the law of diminishing returns comes into play, even if you take more gear, your muscles don't get stronger or bigger. Many even die in this process.

Instead, if you're a novice with no lifting experience, and start using some gear normal-low doses, you should quickly increase your numbers on bench, squat... and pack on some solid muscle if you follow a well-designed diet. 

So, I don't deny that you can try to push your low body fat limits to death, but if you don't use other drugs, you won't be able to handle the appetite and exhaustion caused by DNP. And here we are talking about DNP, not DNP in combination with other drugs.


----------



## In2Deep (Mar 2, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> We have read all those studies hundreds of times, why create alarmism?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Beti ona said:


> We have read all those studies hundreds of times, why create alarmism?
> 
> And I'm not sure where that 11% metabolic boost came from, I'm not buying it.
> 
> I'm also not sure the half-life is 36 hours, it's probably more.


 I'm not trying to create alarmism.   But the question was raised how much does it speed up your metabolism. To my knowledge this is the only data that States such.  If someone has other data I would love to see it.


----------



## Beti ona (Mar 3, 2022)

Yes, that data has been shared and accepted for years, but I question it.


----------



## RiR0 (Mar 3, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Yes, that data has been shared and accepted for years, but I question it.


You also question thermodynamics


----------



## Beti ona (Mar 3, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You also question thermodynamics



No, I said it's irrelevant in real life and doesn't really matter, but you chose to skip replying to the above message due to lack of counter arguments.

And well, a virtue of the best minds is to doubt, I doubt the half-life of DNP is 36 hours or that the metabolism rises a certain percentage and the same for everyone for every 100 mg.


----------



## RiR0 (Mar 3, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> No, I said it's irrelevant in real life and doesn't really matter, but you chose to skip replying to the above message due to lack of counter arguments.
> 
> And well, a virtue of the best minds is to doubt, I doubt the half-life of DNP is 36 hours or that the metabolism rises a certain percentage and the same for everyone for every 100 mg.


Thermodynamics is irrelevant in real life? 😂 what? Do you believe in flat earth too?


----------



## Kraken (Mar 3, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> No, I said it's irrelevant in real life and doesn't really matter, but you chose to skip replying to the above message due to lack of counter arguments.
> 
> And well, a virtue of the best minds is to doubt, I doubt the half-life of DNP is 36 hours or that the metabolism rises a certain percentage and the same for everyone for every 100 mg.



I don't know that there is any research to prove the half life is 36 hours exactly, or 30, or 38, or whatever. The accepted number tends to be 36 which I admit is oddly precise. The key takeaway is that it's longer than 24, which means as you take the same amount daily, the concentration builds up over time. There is a formula for this, and I built a spreadsheet around it. It's key to understand this concept.

As for just how much metabolism increase there is, again, who knows precisely. For the vast majority of people, this stuff sure has an impact. 

As to it being easier to lose fat when you have a lot more to lose, as it has been said, this is true for any attempt at fat loss. Fat, like every other part of your body, requires calories to maintain. The less fat a person has, the fewer their maintenance calories. So for any given caloric deficit, the rate of loss will slow as loss progresses. It's quite a bit more obvious in obese people of course.


----------



## Intel.imperitive (Mar 4, 2022)

I lost 15kgs at 400mg/day for 25, days.


----------



## Send0 (Mar 4, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I lost 15kgs at 400mg/day for 25, days.


I don't even see how. In these pictures you posted you were already rail thin. You should have just eaten food and lifted instead.

For my fellow dumb Americans, 15kg is 33lbs.

Here is a link to his before and after DNP pictures.






						DNP cycle results and Regal Labs DNP review
					

No offence but, you cycle?  I’d hire a coach.  yeah I did a cycle. and not so fast, it was a successful cycle. I gained over 10kgs. you're an idiot for judging my success on how big I am instead of the change in size. backwards mentality thinking that, most guys who use steroids don't look like it.



					www.ugbodybuilding.com


----------



## Send0 (Mar 4, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I lost 15kgs at 400mg/day for 25, days.


You should also add that on MESO you admitted to starving yourself while on DNP.



			https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/regal-labs-dnp-review.134408346/


----------



## Kraken (Mar 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> You should also add that on MESO you admitted to starving yourself while on DNP.
> 
> 
> 
> https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/regal-labs-dnp-review.134408346/


Even with 400 mg DNP ED and starving, 33 pounds in 25 days seems a bit much. And even if this is possible, how would anyone function? Seems like they would be sleeping in a pool of cold sweat for 25 days straight.


----------



## Beti ona (Mar 4, 2022)

While DNP is not catabolic, if you're very lean and don't eat much protein nor lift weight, and you take in a lot of it, it's possible to lose muscle in the process.

It's hard to say, nobody with half a brain and conscious of health and his look, would do that kind of protocol.


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Mar 5, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I lost 15kgs at 400mg/day for 25, days.


Yeah you look starved. Unhealthy and thin. Plus there is the losing to much weight to quickly which can be bad for you as well.


----------



## Intel.imperitive (Mar 6, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I don't even see how. In these pictures you posted you were already rail thin. You should have just eaten food and lifted instead.
> 
> For my fellow dumb Americans, 15kg is 33lbs.
> 
> ...


I only ate everyother day lol. I know it wasn't good also, those are my last DNP transformation pics, I gained all the weight back plus more in 2 years of no training. I look worse than my before pics.


----------



## Butch_C (Mar 7, 2022)

I have looked just out of curiosity of cost and availability and I have not been able to find it. This must be a hard item to source or I am looking it up wrong. I don't know that I would ever try it, although with my BF% I probably should. lol


----------

