# then vs now steroid use



## Pinkbear (Jul 25, 2014)

Maybe some of the vets can chime in on this.

I guess this would be more of a discussion.

Anyways...

Today's steroids vs past steroids.

It seems like every year peoples cycles are getting bigger and bigger. You read about guys cycling ridiculous amounts of gear. 
Is this do to people being dumb or just that gear into as strong as it used to be.

Guys running gram plus of tren, 3gs of test, and amounts of orals that would destroy livers.

Could you vets imagine running these cycles with gear you used to get?

Of course with demand very high the suppliers know this and could be dilutuing the gear.


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## Yaya (Jul 25, 2014)

Gear was stronger before and human grade was easily avaliable. 

Must have something to do with the powders from China

Even the underground shit I used in the early 2000s was hands down much more potent, from mexico.

There are good labs out there now but I think the powders used to be better..


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## Pinkbear (Jul 25, 2014)

And yes I'm not comparing lab vs lab.

Its more of a comparison from the best gear you had in the past vs the best gear you can get now


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## Yaya (Jul 25, 2014)

It's hard to answer this unless u were actually around to try the stuff 15+ years ago.. diet, diet, diet blah blah blah... shit was stronger.. 

I agree pink, some of the dosages I see guys on and then seeing pics of them is pretty dissapointing. .. and some of these guys have good genetics. 

I remember literally blowing up in 3 days from 1 cc of Russian sus..

I remember doing 1 cc every 5 days of tornel test e and gaining 15 pounds in like 6 weeks

That's why if u have a good trusted source these days, stick with it or stock pile


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## TylerDurdn (Jul 25, 2014)

Yaya said:


> It's hard to answer this unless u were actually around to try the stuff 15+ years ago.. diet, diet, diet blah blah blah... shit was stronger..
> 
> I agree pink, some of the dosages I see guys on and then seeing pics of them is pretty dissapointing. .. and some of these guys have good genetics.
> 
> ...



I want to build a underground bomb shelter to stock pile for when sh!t hits the fan..


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## Pinkbear (Jul 25, 2014)

I ran 600sust and 500 DECA for 10 weeks and kept about 15 lbs

Now you say you ran 1cc of sust for 6 weeks and gained 15lbs...

Sure people can sit here and say your diet was off or you didn't train hard enough by I'm calling bullshit... Not on you yay


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 25, 2014)

I ran 2 amps (500 mg) of Organon Sust, 200 mg of their deca (which was 50mg/ml), and 30mg of pink thai dbol for 8 weeks and gained 30 lbs. Of course, it was mostly water.

It's def the china raws. 

Of course, I never ran AI's because I was told they hindered gains, and Adex was like $10/pill. 

Most guys first cycles when I started was buying one bottle of test, something like steris test cyp (250mg/ml), and running 1CC a week for the first 4 weeks, 2CC's for weeks 5 and 6, and back to 1cc for weeks 7 and 8. Guys would put on 20lbs easy all the time doing that. I saw them. I did it myself.


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## transcend2007 (Jul 25, 2014)

I have some test from 17 years ago.  I would be happy to send it you to test your theory.

You can report back (if you survive)...


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## DF (Jul 25, 2014)

I agree with what Yaya said.  Most of the gear was hg & was real good.  I used HG Dbol, Ready jects, Halo, ect..... Back in the day.  Made huge gains back then & strength thru the roof.  I never even approached 1g of test back then.


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## Yaya (Jul 25, 2014)

My first test was steris Testosterone cypionate. .. I added a little Pink thai dbols and actually stopped mid cycle because I was getting too big and strong, sounds nuts but my girlfriend the time was concerned and my parents were pissed...

Also if someone actually has expired test from years ago please take it and give it to me


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 25, 2014)

Yaya said:


> My first test was steris Testosterone cypionate. .. I added a little Pink thai dbols and actually stopped mid cycle because I was getting too big and strong, sounds nuts but my girlfriend the time was concerned and my parents were pissed...
> 
> Also if someone actually has expired test from years ago please take it and give it to me



Haha. My parents kicked me out of the house during cycle #3. It was at this time that I found a new friend called "Fina". I was scared to take it because some dude from the gym told me he made it in his kitchen.

Who woulda thunk that 14 years later, just about all the gear we use is brewed in someone's kitchen.

Thank you Barry Bonds!


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## don draco (Jul 25, 2014)

A question for the vets -- was an AI ever used during your cycles? 

My first cycle I put on around 23 lbs in 8 weeks on 500 mg test E & 50-75mg var ( I spent the initial 4 weeks cutting down .. increased var to 75 near the end if I remember correctly) .  I got huge and strength was through the roof.  The PRs I set were ridiculous. People were shocked when they saw me at the end of it lol. To this day it's still the best cycle I've ever had.    

The difference between then & now is that during the last half of my cycle I was using a bunk AI.
Perhaps the dramatic difference in strength and size is due to suppression of rising e2 levels?  Today a lot of guys almost crush their e2 on cycle because they fear getting gyno, when really higher than normal e2 levels may be beneficial for growth.  Estrogen is often given to cattle alongside androgens as a growth-promoter.  If I remember correctly, estrogen is found in fina pellets .. and for that very reason -- to promote growth.  

So maybe the difference between now & then isn't entirely an issue of quality .. perhaps it has something to do with AI use as well?  Just a thought


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## Get Some (Jul 25, 2014)

The biggest problem with then vs now is the perception people have today because of the way AAS are viewed. Most users are expecting more than they actually get. The honeymoon period is over after the first few weeks of good pumps and increased strength. These are not miracle workers folks, nothing supplants hard work and a solid workout routine combined with the proper diet. The only thing people need to look at for subpar results is themselves! (barring obviously fake gear)

For the record, the UGL I use now puts out gear that is just as good or better than the gear I had 10+ years ago that was human grade or from Mexico. 

And.... when you make fina from a cartridge using a conversion kit, you REMOVE the estrogen. Estrogen acts within a cows body differently than it does ours. Fina is not used to "fatten up" cattle, but rather as a way to feed them less and still get their "meat" to about the same size. Hence, why tren is so good at hanging on to muscle in a caloric deficit


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## Seeker (Jul 25, 2014)

Everything the boys have just said.  There were no underground labs back when I first started. Everything was pharma grade and legal at the time. Dbol,  test, Sustanon, deca, winstrol, anadrol, were all amazingly powerful with great results taken at moderate dosages.  Even After everything became illegal getting good quality strong juice was still pretty easy to get  but of course you really had to know the right people.  Powerlifting and bodybuilding is still going very strong today with dudes getting more huge then ever. Obviously slin, hgh, and other  chemicals are contributing but steriods are still very much involved, there are more people competing today then ever before, men and women, and they're all juicing! There is great  stuff out there still. Just got to be in the right circles.


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## Seeker (Jul 25, 2014)

To add to what I'm saying though. There was no worry about bunk or fake gear back then. Everything was legit. Obviously today there is a lot of bunk, under dosed, weak, shitty crappy gear.


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## Paolos (Jul 25, 2014)

I wish I could provide so solid input on this subject. I used from 17-24 in the eighties & early ninties (I now know it was a horrible decision). I was very strong at the time
squated and DL over 500 (horrible bencher) prior to 20 years old. Then laid off for about 20 years then got back into it when my test level was below 160.
I don't see the gains now like I did then but I'm a hellava lot older.


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## hulksmash (Jul 25, 2014)

Pros abused in the 70s and 80s like they do today.

HOWEVER, not on the same scale. They were more conservative.

All steroids we have now were available *since the 1960s*.

All legit FDA regulated pharma brands are as strong as they used to be.

I remember reading the original dbol formula was lost though.

Gh use began in the late 70s with Crescormin.
 It became widespread and more available in the 80s (you can tell with Padillas and Mentzer bloated+lean midsection which happens with gh).


I don't know why people believe pros at the top-who did anything to win-in golden age of bodybuilding stuck who low dosages.

Actually I do know:

Humans have a tendency to keep a "pure" (eg hard work and never needed low dosages) image of their idols. Any other view is heresy!


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## don draco (Jul 25, 2014)

Get Some said:


> And.... when you make fina from a cartridge using a conversion kit, you REMOVE the estrogen. Estrogen acts within a cows body differently than it does ours. Fina is not used to "fatten up" cattle, but rather as a way to feed them less and still get their "meat" to about the same size. Hence, why tren is so good at hanging on to muscle in a caloric deficit



I know, I was giving an example of how estrogen is used alongside androgens in cattle as a growth-promoter.  I wasn't suggesting that the tren that people are using today contains estrogen lol.  Yes it is used to improve feed efficiency & is great at preserving muscle mass in a caloric deficit, but one of the main purposes of finaplix implants is to increase the cattles' rate of weight gain.

What I'm getting at is that maybe the difference between then & now in terms of 'gains' is AI use.  Not using an AI will eventually lead to a large amount of water retention when using an aromatizable androgen like testosterone, which will undoubtedly promote strength gains.  Size as well, although most of this size will be from the water retention. Although the strength gains may indirectly influence muscle mass gains over the duration of the cycle, I'm aware that I can't say that e2 has a *direct* impact on growth in men using AAS. Are higher than normal e2 levels beneficial for promoting growth in men using exogenous androgens?  I've been searching, but I can't find any studies on the topic.  

But again, just a thought


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## Maijah (Jul 25, 2014)

About 12 years ago I did my first cycle. It was one bottle of norandren 200. I did it all by itself no ai, nothing. I kept about 15 lbs after all was said and done. That was on an 8 week cycle of one 10ml bottle.


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## Seeker (Jul 25, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> Pros abused in the 70s and 80s like they do today.
> 
> HOWEVER, not on the same scale. They were more conservative.
> 
> ...



I'm sure pharma grade is still strong today. It's no where as easy to get today as it was back then.
Back then top pro cycles were higher then the average guy but compared to today? There is a difference, a pretty big difference... and I'm not just speaking hearsay.


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## Yaya (Jul 25, 2014)

Bottom line IMO guys take way more dosages today and gains aren't as impressive as they were 15 years ago..

This again is the opinions of myself, personal friends and 2 ifbb pros


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## BigGameHunter (Jul 25, 2014)

GS is right about the honeymoon period and peoples expectations.  Honestly, in all fairness  to my current stash there is no one that could top the first cycles I ever took.  Weather they were the same or even better quality.  In my mind, it was the best ever... kind of like the first big titties you ever got to squeeze.

My doses are about the same as they were years ago.  I am flirting with more choices now and finding that the basics are what I like and will most likely stick with.  I do think the gear was stronger back then but as said it was HG.  

DD- Yes, when I could get my hands on an AI then I took advantage of them, but like most things it was subject to availability and my financial situation at the time.


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## hulksmash (Jul 26, 2014)

Seeker said:


> I'm sure pharma grade is still strong today. It's no where as easy to get today as it was back then.
> Back then top pro cycles were higher then the average guy but compared to today? There is a difference, a pretty big difference... and I'm not just speaking hearsay.



I know that and agree-

That's why I said their doses were more conservative back then.

I hope no one thinks I believe they ran as much as pros do now haha...


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## SuperBane (Jul 26, 2014)

So do you guys think that watson Test cyp 200/mg is "stronger than "your favorite ugl" 200mg Test Cyp?

OR let me rephrase you guys believe that the ugl's are not the same mg per ml as pharm grade because of china raws?

Too bad raws aren't sourced from elsewhere as well as china to improve the market. Nothing beats competition.


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## Maintenance Man (Jul 26, 2014)

I think its more like this. Its become cool to do roids or whatever and a lot more people are in the game. More customers equals more demand. More demand can equal more profit. More profit increases likely hood of scammers and the like. Whether the raws aren't as potent as they used to be, you can bet your UGL isn't what it says it is. So to speak in terms of mgs now vs mgs then, it doesn't equate cause the shit is so watered down.

Its no different than protein. Companies make really shitty protein powder that sells for quite a bit of money. Come to find out, most those companies use tricks or just plain out rip you off. Why??? Cause you will keep buying more, thats why. No different in the AAS game now. Its sad as fukk but thats what it come down to. People want to make money and internet sales of bunk ass gear is at an all time high and prolly will never recede.


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## ECKSRATED (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm only 30 years old so this is just my opinion. Back then only the serious gym rats took asteroids. They knew what hard work and dieting was. These days people depend on steroids way too much. Back then guys put their time in before running gear. These days you'll see a 20 year old join a gym and lift weights for the first time in his life but is running a cycle. Lol. It's ridiculous.


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## losieloos (Jul 26, 2014)

What's your opinion on this PFM?


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## SuperBane (Jul 26, 2014)

losieloos said:


> What's your opinion on this PFM?









10 characters + 1


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 26, 2014)

I think that there are some really good UGLs out there. I've used them. 

But....

My theory, and it could be wrong, is that the raw powder trade is a lot like the cocaine trade. There's probably a handful of factories/labs producing raws in china. Then theres a bunch of middle men from china and 3 million UGLs. I bet the raws get cut down the line until they get to the ugl, where they are either cut again, or brewed as is. 

The top, private UGLs have great raw connections, and brew good gear. The average website owning ugl has raws that have been stomped to shit, and is severely underdosed at best.


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## Yaya (Jul 26, 2014)

Ugl were much better pre ORD and gear grinder, I asked recently in a thread and didn't get a straight answer but maybe a better vet may have more insight 

Where did they ugl's back then get there raws?


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## losieloos (Jul 26, 2014)

SuperBane said:


> View attachment 1407
> 
> 
> View attachment 1408
> ...


I don't get it.


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## stonetag (Jul 26, 2014)

I do miss the days of using pharm grade gear..simply put, that is all there was, at least to my knowledge. I believe in DYS's theory of stomped on raws, it make all the sense in the world. Cocaine is a prime example of this. The black market is a cesspool.


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## widehips71 (Jul 26, 2014)

Hulk sure does have the inside track on what all the pros do. He must train with them, pin with them, hang with them, live with them, have butt sex with them....


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## TheLupinator (Jul 26, 2014)

So concentrations labeled on the bottle are unreliable... fucck it, just push more oil until something weird pops up on your blood work


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## hulksmash (Jul 26, 2014)

widehips71 said:


> Hulk sure does have the inside track on what all the pros do. He must train with them, pin with them, hang with them, live with them, have butt sex with them....



Haha I could see you giving me jabs IF I were to make ridiculous claims.

It's not ridiculous that top pros today run 3-5 grams of AAS, 10-20ius of sermorelin, ancillaries, narcotics, and amphetamines.

Sermorelin is stated specifically because if you have gay buddies-*which is ****ing rampant in bodybuilding*-they'll let you buy their GH kits because the numb hands and lethargy sucks and they'll use their other treatment options that are given to them in combination with Sermorelin.

Opiate use and amphetamine use is rampant as well in upper echelons of bodybuilding.

I said use, not abuse-but there will ways be some who take way too much of anything.

Amphetamines fight the lethargy and opiates kill the pain/puts everyone in a GREAT mood to deal with all the fans and shit.

Alprazolam is pretty common too; that's to combat the stim use and also any insomnia from AAS.

There is a drug used for every side effect that comes from using gear and other drugs.

I don't know why people on forums fight tooth and nail for a squeaky clean image of pros..pro bodybuilding is full of people who are ****ed up in the head and have self image issues.

And yes, I know some folks and they're the reason I started to never go below a gram..and wish I had that knowledge from the beginning. 

Also, my goals-which require no less than a gram while cruising-are way different than the average guy on gear here, though.


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 26, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> Haha I could see you giving me jabs IF I were to make ridiculous claims.
> 
> It's not ridiculous that top pros today run 3-5 grams of AAS, 10-20ius of sermorelin, ancillaries, narcotics, and amphetamines.
> 
> ...



good way to die


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## hulksmash (Jul 26, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> good way to die



Yea because all pros are known for their longevity..

Only the 60s-80s guys are the ones living to an average life span.

Hell even Sergio Oliva-my friggin idol and biggest dude competing at the time-and you just know he had to be doing more gear than everyone else-lived long.

****ing Peter Grymkowski *who is famous for abusing AAS* had a heart attack but is luckily still alive.


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## widehips71 (Jul 26, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> Haha I could see you giving me jabs IF I were to make ridiculous claims.
> 
> It's not ridiculous that top pros today run 3-5 grams of AAS, 10-20ius of sermorelin, ancillaries, narcotics, and amphetamines.
> 
> ...




So it is true.  You have butt sex with them.  Mmwahahahahahaha



Your claims may not be ridiculous, but I'm still gonna take jabs   Ok I'm done having my laugh...for now.  Carry on


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## Yaya (Jul 26, 2014)

Sergio is a great bodybuilding idol

But... at least my 2 idols are still kicking strong

Jesus Christ

And 

The Ultimate Warrior

Oh...wait.. = (

I'm fukked


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## Fsuphisig (Jul 26, 2014)

I wanna hear from some of the guys on here who claim to know
Some pros and give us a peek into their regimens


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## hulksmash (Jul 26, 2014)

Fsuphisig said:


> I wanna hear from some of the guys on here who claim to know
> Some pros and give us a peek into their regimens



I don't know why you would need to know other than curiousity...and it's not anything outrageous-BUT there's always "that guy" that runs insanes amount of shit. A lot of people say that was the reason for Trey Brewer's demise..

Most conservative approach would be:
Offseason

2-4g of injectable gear, mainly test and deca
an oral
10-20iu GH, commonly sermerolin; Chinese gh if unavailable/$$ is an issue
insulin
ancillaries
peptides (especially ghrp-6 to aid with eating)
t3, clen, ephedrine, caffeine (or all 4)
pde5 inhibitor
prescription medicine (this is more personal and varied-eg opiates, amphetamines, barbiturates)
 SEO (most actually don't unless there's a guest posing/booth appearance/etc appointment)

Contest prep

2-4g of injectable gear; trenbolone is now used
an oral (now orals for cutting like Superdrol, Winny, etc)
10-20iu GH, commonly sermerolin; Chinese gh if unavailable/$$ is an issue
insulin
ancillaries
t3, clen, ephedrine, caffeine (or all 4); MAYBE DNP (depends on the person)
pde5 inhibitor
prescription medicine (this is more personal and varied-eg opiates, amphetamines, barbiturates)
SEO (most actually don't unless there's a guest posing/booth appearance

Right before the contest, test and gh is dropped and water/sodium is manipulated and diuretics come into play
Remember, this is about building this kind of size:






Also I'm talking about averages here..there's always some differences! Likewise, there's always those very very few to do crazy shit like 6 grams of gear and 30ius haha...


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## SuperBane (Jul 26, 2014)

Really that shit just reads like that bostyn kids regimen with narcotics thrown in. 

If you are a dope fiend good now you have an excuse.

GH / Slin with the ninja turtle stomach. Shit is ugly. 

I feel bad for those guys who do all that and will never go further in the industry than a muscular development photo.

I've never even *heard of* half those guys ...... But I know who *Mark Smelly Bell* is!


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## hulksmash (Jul 26, 2014)

SuperBane said:


> Really that shit just reads like that bostyn kids regimen with narcotics thrown in.
> 
> If you are a dope fiend good now you have an excuse.
> 
> ...



There's plenty of people who bodybuild and don't touch narcotics.

Just a lot more tempting when you chemically change yourself..


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## Fsuphisig (Jul 26, 2014)

totally out of curiosity i dont even use gear but thanks thats a great post !
I tried two times with ghrp 6 for helping with appetite and it wasnt working i got way more hungry with the ghrp 2 but mybe ill give it another run this fall semester.


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## ECKSRATED (Jul 26, 2014)

I heard Phil heath only runs dbol only cycles. Just what I heard.


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 26, 2014)

I heard you have to fuk grapefruits on webcam to make it as a pro bodybuilder.


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## hulksmash (Jul 27, 2014)

DieYoungStrong said:


> I heard you have to fuk grapefruits on webcam to make it as a pro bodybuilder.



Haha what's sad is that he's technically not "making it" as a pro. The IFBB will never let him win.

Why run all that shit and KNOW you'll never win an Olympia??


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## Fsuphisig (Jul 27, 2014)

I feel like the fans are pushing for Kai now he's got a pretty good following, he might be able to steal one from their golden boy Phil Heath, but he's really gunna have to earn it cuz Phil is gooooood man. I'm lookin forward to seein Denis wolf next year he just keeps gettin better !


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## hulksmash (Jul 27, 2014)

Fsuphisig said:


> I feel like the fans are pushing for Kai now he's got a pretty good following, he might be able to steal one from their golden boy Phil Heath, but he's really gunna have to earn it cuz Phil is gooooood man. I'm lookin forward to seein Denis wolf next year he just keeps gettin better !



Never will happen. Ifbb will never allow a porn star that ****ed a grapefruit to represent their company.


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## Fsuphisig (Jul 27, 2014)

One video and he's now a pornstar ? Lol


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## conan (Dec 28, 2014)

Sorry, late to the party here.  I would have to agree with most of what's been said.  The gear was well... better.  This seems like a lifetime ago, but I remember getting Pakistan sust amps and gaining about 30lbs in 8 weeks.  I was strong as all hell, and I believe my dosage was either 250 or 500 a week for 8 weeks.

That actually brings me to another point.  Cycles back in the day were never really 12, 16, a year etc in length.  It seemed the norm (even for long esters) was 8 weeks.  So not only are higher dosages being taken today (under dosed gear by way of RAW's / UGL's) but cycle lengths have gotten much longer with less gains.  I'm starting to sound like my father,"back in my day..."

Just my observations.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 28, 2014)

pro genetics


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