# Fauci: CDC looking at changing mask guidelines



## mugzy (Jul 25, 2021)

Sorry all however I’m not going back to wearing a mask…. Enough is enough.









						Fauci: CDC looking at changing mask guidelines
					

"This is under active consideration," Dr. Anthony Fauci, President Biden’s chief medical adviser, said on CNN, when asked if wearing a mask should be required again even for Americans who have been vaccinated.




					www.yahoo.com


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## TeddyBear (Jul 25, 2021)

in my city, Covid apparently acknowledges zip codes.
Richer whiter part of town was full of Karen’s screaming at Trader Joes to let them in without masks. Where moms were photocopying doctors notes saying a kid wasnt covid positive to send them to prom where out
Middle class mixed part of town was quick to take vaccine, we’re talking like a 70% rate.

So I live in the whiter part of town (not rich) and work in the mixed part of town. Animosity between the two.

I went to camp with church kids who largely ignored Covids existence last year: sure enough we had a camp-wide outbreak of dozens of kids getting sick. My cabin was 6/12ths covid positive by the time we were sent home.

So today at church we didn’t get the typical post-camp slide show, we’re pretending apparently everything is fine and nothing happened. Although half the staff is quarantined and 200 of 600 campers are now in isolation because we have 60 confirmed cases.

My boys yesterday: “this is nothing. It’s dumb. I feel fine.”
My boys today: “I’m miserable and too tired to play Xbox”.

The vaccinated boys and I are the ones who didn’t get sick. We DID wear a mask for the following two days until we confirmed with testing that we were safe. Only because we had SO much exposure.

Vaccines, anecdotally, worked in this case.

I *do not* want to wear a mask because these kids and their parents don’t want to get their shots. They accepted their risk, which selfishly does impact others as they can spread it more easily than those who are vaccinated (which again, shots aren’t perfect).

Unfortunately, as a teacher, I will definitely have to wear a mask per our local policies. Only half of our kids are vaccinated locally.

At this point we are all amateur statisticians. Seeing a 2x jump in cases per week doesn’t bode well for the maskless unvaccinated. Are they likely to recover: yes, but in the meantime they will be perpetuating something that could be over.

I am in CA, so our Governor likely won’t relock us down before his recall in Sept. He’ll survive the recall. Recalls in CA have a 1 in 50 success rate. Besides the people who don’t like him are the ones at risk of illness anyways.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

I don’t wanna go back to wearing masks I don’t want my kids to either nasty ass mask gonna cause respiratory problems from inhaling your own germs all day.

They pushing this vaccine super hard right now and that alone is scaring me. Seeing the vaccine under UV light straight up dude at my work put a magnet on his vaccinated arm and it stuck other arm did no seen that shit with my own eyes. My wife says vet assistant scanned her arm with the pet chip reader and she got a code. They are not showing how many people dying from the vaccine or getting really fucked up.

If anyone wants to wear a mask or take the shot please go right ahead I’m not going to say shit or anything but please have the respect back to my decision. My body my choice.

Not going to get all crazy here but I’m scared to see what’s gonna happen September/October if I had to beg money I’m betting we getting locked the fuck down again. My feelings are shit is about to start to get serious FEMA camps operating UN soldiers here most states US army and all other branches will have mandatory vaccinations as early as September 1st.https://www.armytimes.com/news/pent...id-vaccines-in-september-army-tells-commands/ It’s about to go down that’s all I’m saying.

Look at France, Australia England they all going up about the same shit.





It’s all fun and games until it’s not.


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## TeddyBear (Jul 25, 2021)

You believe it, because you saw it. That someone, through a syringe, had a pet reader RFID chip in them?

Have you seen the size of pet chips?

RFID readers can be bought on Amazon. You can reprogram them easily, we trust that people aren’t gonna reprogram our dog’s home address, because WHO WOULD?

But somehow, multiple nations with different political structures and beliefs, multiple competing pharmaceutical companies around the world, and hospitals (chain and local) are all in on a conspiracy to put a magnetic chip in your arm through a syringe.

You ARE allowed to see the syringe. You think there are nanites in there? If what you’re saying is true; get the shot and rub a magnet on your arm until the evil chip is scrubbed.

Also, where’s the evidence that you “inhale your own germs”? Why was this not a problem for dental hygienists, coal miners, nail stylists?


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

dted23 said:


> You believe it, because you saw it. That someone, through a syringe, had a pet reader RFID chip in them?
> 
> Have you seen the size of pet chips?
> 
> ...


I’m not here to argue man you wanna get it please go ahead and knock yourself out. My eyes see sketchy ass shit happening here and I’m going with my gut feeling.

What really put me over the top the other day was the covid origin Bill being voted not to be released to show where the covid really came from.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/07/2...k-bill-declassifying-the-origins-of-covid-19/

We’ll talk next year and see where we at but not looking good.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

dted23 said:


> You believe it, because you saw it. That someone, through a syringe, had a pet reader RFID chip in them?
> 
> Have you seen the size of pet chips?
> 
> ...


Also should not matter if your vaccinated and you can still get covid and pass it on and I’m not vaccinated and I can do the same then we both are equal. So you can get it I don’t have to and it’s all the same and if my chances are I’ll get sick more then that’s a risk I’m willing to take. But we both can get it we both can spread it so don’t see the point of getting it too early for me no study’s still not sure about what the sides will be later lots of talk of causing infertility heart problems , etc….


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## TeddyBear (Jul 25, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Also should not matter if your vaccinated and you can still get covid and pass it on and I’m not vaccinated and I can do the same then we both are equal. So you can get it I don’t have to and it’s all the same and if my chances are I’ll get sick more then that’s a risk I’m willing to take. But we both can get it we both can spread it so don’t see the point of getting it too early for me no study’s still not sure about what the sides will be later lots of talk of causing infertility heart problems , etc….


Correct, to an extent.

Difference: studies suggest that I would be 90% less likely to get sick at all, 90% less likely to spread it if sick, 95% less likely to feel symptoms at all, and 97% less likely to be hospitalized.

We both made choices, mine just has a 90%+ likelihood of protecting others too.

Also, on THIS forum, we tend to put dubious things inside us from far less reputable sources.

To clarify, while I AM frustrated with vaccine skeptics, I understand wanting to “wait”. 
I’m angry with the conspiracy peddlers; because they don’t make any real sense.

Especially since my friends were all gung-ho on Operation Warp Speed, but now it’s somehow the Mark of the Beast.

I think people SHOULD NOT be forced to get a shot, TODAY.

I think it should be HEAVILY ENCOURAGED and that we need that final approval quick so that we expect it on students and essential workers.

But I also don’t think we should lock down again at all. Vaccine works, so people have chosen their level of risk.


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 25, 2021)

Bobby the magnet stuff is bullshit. Did you not see the video I made where I showed a penny sticking to my sideways hand? It's called friction.


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## CJ (Jul 25, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Bobby the magnet stuff is bullshit. Did you not see the video I made where I showed a penny sticking to my sideways hand? It's called friction.


Not to mention US coins are not magnetic to begin with.


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 25, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Not to mention US coins are not magnetic to begin with.


Thank you


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Bobby the magnet stuff is bullshit. Did you not see the video I made where I showed a penny sticking to my sideways hand? It's called friction.


He didn’t use a coin was a white board magnet and it really happened seen him keep doing it on both arms repeatedly in front of me one arm stuck one arm kept falling off


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Correct, to an extent.
> 
> Difference: studies suggest that I would be 90% less likely to get sick at all, 90% less likely to spread it if sick, 95% less likely to feel symptoms at all, and 97% less likely to be hospitalized.
> 
> ...


Look man I seriously hope I’m wrong about all this I really do but unfortunately I’m not taking that chance especially with my kids where it’s 99.9% survival rate pretty sure more died from getting the vaccine.

Like I said not here to judge but really want people to start looking into things cause shit is sketchy at best.


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 25, 2021)

If you actually look at the stats from Covid vs the stats for the vaccine, the vaccine has far better outcomes. The rate of vaccine related problems/complications is considerably less than that of the virus. They're not even close.

A lot of conservative media is posting alarming articles about vaccine related issues like allergic reactions, blood clots, etc., but if you look at the actual numbers, the odds are more likely that you'll get hit by lightning in your lifetime than you will have an issue with a vaccine.


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## CJ (Jul 25, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> If you actually look at the stats from Covid vs the stats for the vaccine, the vaccine has far better outcomes. The rate of vaccine related problems/complications is considerably less than that of the virus. They're not even close.
> 
> A lot of conservative media is posting alarming articles about vaccine related issues like allergic reactions, blood clots, etc., but if you look at the actual numbers, the odds are more likely that you'll get hit by lightning in your lifetime than you will have an issue with a vaccine.


So far, but that's actually yet to be determined. It is entirely possible that the vsccine(s) COULD cause longer term systemic problems. 

That is NOT a nod to the conspiracy theory crowd, just a simple fact. The vaccine(s) could also turn out to be perfectly fine. Only time will tell.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> So far, but that's actually yet to be determined. It is entirely possible that the vsccine(s) COULD cause longer term systemic problems.
> 
> That is NOT a nod to the conspiracy theory crowd, just a simple fact. The vaccine(s) could also turn out to be perfectly fine. Only time will tell.


Exactly but if you look at Israel like 95% or something like that are vaccinated and they are still getting the new variant and are dying still more then the unvaccinated.

Plus you can’t even test the variants and on top of it why did Soros and Gates just buy the testing companies? It’s proven Gates been in all sorts of countries testing vaccines and he is banned from several countries for ducking people up.

This is too much lol it just needs to end already.


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## CJ (Jul 25, 2021)

I'm staying out of the conspiracy stuff. Let me know what you guys all decide. 😊


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> If you actually look at the stats from Covid vs the stats for the vaccine, the vaccine has far better outcomes. The rate of vaccine related problems/complications is considerably less than that of the virus. They're not even close.
> 
> A lot of conservative media is posting alarming articles about vaccine related issues like allergic reactions, blood clots, etc., but if you look at the actual numbers, the odds are more likely that you'll get hit by lightning in your lifetime than you will have an issue with a vaccine.


I don’t think what your saying is accurate survival rate of the covid for people under 70 is like 99.7 pretty sure death rates from vaccine is higher not to mention people that get instant problems from it I’ll have to look and find you real numbers but I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> I'm staying out of the conspiracy stuff. Let me know what you guys all decide. 😊


No one here is fighting or calling names it’s a pretty civil conversation man.


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## mugzy (Jul 25, 2021)

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.....


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 25, 2021)

Long term effects of Covid-19:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

Organ damage caused by COVID-19​Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:



*Heart.* Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
*Lungs.* The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
*Brain.* Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Some adults and children experience multisystem inflammatory syndrome after they have had COVID-19. In this condition, some organs and tissues become severely inflamed.

Blood clots and blood vessel problems​COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.


Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.


Problems with mood and fatigue​People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.


Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.


Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown​Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time, but research is ongoing. Researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.


Many large medical centers are opening specialized clinics to provide care for people who have persistent symptoms or related illnesses after they recover from COVID-19. Support groups are available as well.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

mugzy said:


> You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.....


What’s the problem? And what’s the solution?


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

mugzy said:


> You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.....


What’s the problem? And what’s the


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Long term effects of Covid-19:
> 
> https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
> 
> ...


From what I’m getting is 4 out of every 100,000 die from vaccine cdc has numbers as well and the chances of getting sick or dying are way higher then lightning anyways all good anyone that wants them great your body your choice for those who don’t same shit I don’t see it to be a reason not to get along or fight as long as we respect each other’s choices free country right?


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 25, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> I don’t think what your saying is accurate survival rate of the covid for people under 70 is like 99.7 pretty sure death rates from vaccine is higher not to mention people that get instant problems from it I’ll have to look and find you real numbers but I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one.


Please show me a reliable source that says this.


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 25, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> From what I’m getting is 4 out of every 100,000 die from vaccine cdc has numbers as well and the chances of getting sick or dying are way higher then lightning


This is not accurate Bobby. You're spreading misinformation here. There is Vaers data that comes close to this number (0.00004%) but that data is the chance of having ANY type of adverse medical event after getting a covid vaccine, not dying. Your chances of dying from Covid are considerably higher.

The odds of getting struck by lightning in your lifetime according to the National Weather Service (https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-odds) are 1 in 15,300 (0.00006%), higher than having an adverse event from a covid vaccine.

Now tell me how great your 99.7% chance of surviving covid sounds compare to those numbers. Do the math.


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## Adrenolin (Jul 25, 2021)

Only way I'd ever get the vaccine is if my job depended on it. I'd rather get covid, again.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> This is not accurate Bobby. You're spreading misinformation here. There is Vaers data that comes close to this number (0.00004%) but that data is the chance of having ANY type of adverse medical event after getting a covid vaccine, not dying. Your chances of dying from Covid are considerably higher.
> 
> The odds of getting struck by lightning in your lifetime according to the National Weather Service (https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-odds) are 1 in 15,300 (0.00006%), higher than having an adverse event from a covid vaccine.
> 
> Now tell me how great your 99.7% chance of surviving covid sounds compare to those numbers. Do the math.


I’ll look tonight at a baptism now


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

Just saying but I’m at a baptism at a banquet hall there is an old couple wearing masks the lady has her mask with her nose exposed what good is that? SMFH


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## BigSwolePump (Jul 25, 2021)

The mask have not and will not work against a virus. I won't wear one. Been there, done that.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

BigSwolePump said:


> The mask have not and will not work against a virus. I won't wear one. Been there, done that.


From my understanding the virus goes through the mask anyways unless you got those special ones so pointless


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## BigSwolePump (Jul 25, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> From my understanding the virus goes through the mask anyways unless you got those special ones so pointless


Its like putting a hula hoop in front of you to protect you from mosquitos. The virus is microscopic...literally. 

If anything was learned by this, it should be to wash your fuking hands and to keep you hands away from your face...you know, hygiene and all.

Nasty mofos


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 25, 2021)

This will never end until these democratic bastards get the hell out of Washington. All these bullshit variants I’m so sick of all that crap already . Faucci has dishonest eyes like the rest of those evil looking satanic fucks.  Big no to the masks and mandates stick it deep in the anus.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

BigSwolePump said:


> Its like putting a hula hoop in front of you to protect you from mosquitos. The virus is microscopic...literally.
> 
> If anything was learned by this, it should be to wash your fuking hands and to keep you hands away from your face...you know, hygiene and all.
> 
> Nasty mofos


Another family here all wearing masks whole table people come talk to them they pull mask down they went to snack table took masks off your literally just virtue signaling at this point either wear a real mask that works and don’t take it off if your scared or don’t go to events in my opinion because your not helping your odds of not getting covid


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> This will never end until these democratic bastards get the hell out of Washington. All these bullshit variants I’m so sick of all that crap already . Faucci has dishonest eyes like the rest of those evil looking satanic fucks.  Big no to the masks and mandates stick it deep in the anus.


Your alive I missed you lol and your responses even the mean ones toward me


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## BRICKS (Jul 25, 2021)

Not worried about getting covid before I got vaccinated, not worried about it now.  Not worried about having had the vaccine either.  The CCP is laughing it's ass off right now, mission  accomplished nd and then some.  Meanwhile, far more nefarious shit is afoot......covid.....5% real problem, 95% smoke and fkn mirrors....

Just my 2 cents as a health care/front line worker.

And I'm not putting a mask back on either except in the OR or when I fly.


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 25, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Your alive I missed you lol and your responses even the mean ones toward me


Thanks


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

BRICKS said:


> Not worried about getting covid before I got vaccinated, not worried about it now.  Not worried about having had the vaccine either.  The CCP is laughing it's ass off right now, mission  accomplished nd and then some.  Meanwhile, far more nefarious shit is afoot......covid.....5% real problem, 95% smoke and fkn mirrors....
> 
> Just my 2 cents as a health care/front line worker.
> 
> And I'm not putting a mask back on either except in the OR or when I fly.


I believe everything you said but I’m worried about the vaccine is a part of them getting to what they planning.

Shit goes down I’m meeting you in Idaho lol


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## Flyingdragon (Jul 25, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Not to mention US coins are not magnetic to begin with.


CJ does though have a magnetic personality


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## 69nites (Jul 25, 2021)

If I have to wear a mask again I'm robbing people.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 25, 2021)

69nites said:


> If I have to wear a mask again I'm robbing people.


Sorry I’m bored family parties sick if you don’t drink


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## slicwilly2000 (Jul 25, 2021)

Funny thing.  All the people I know that got covid wore N95 or KN95 masks religiously.  I on the other hand only wore it when it was required and had a cloth mask that I could breathe through without getting a headache.  I smoke cigars daily.  Absolutely no one at the cigar lounges wear masks and we're much closer than the 6 foot rule to each other.  Right now the cigar lounge is at most 25% vaccinated and 75% unvaccinated.  I'll take Donald's recommendation of the quinine products over the vaccine any day.  They are definitely effective.  I'm 100% confident I've been exposed to covid by multiple people that did get tested.  I felt tired for a couple days and took a combination of cinchona and black seed oil and felt fine.  If you want to get vaccinated feel free and leave the rest of us alone.

I'm fairly certain the country will be shut down again due to all the unhealthy people out there that are susceptible to whatever virus is going around.  There should be a tax that people have to pay for eating shit all day and not being active.  It's expensive and it affects the healthy people negatively.  

Slic.


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

If people here don't believe in Science,  they're entitled to their beliefs. I also think it should be up to every individual whether or not they get vaccinated; I don't agree with mandating vaccines.

But if you believe in science, and you still don't think masks work, just read this article and have a look at the studies that back up its claims:









						Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus
					

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.




					www.ucsf.edu
				




I'm not the most intelligent person around, but I know enough not to make claims about how viruses work based upon my own anecdotal experiences.


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## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

For this topic, I just do what is gonna be best for me and don't really listen to what the "scientists" say.  My doc's always told me I know my body better than he does.  With that said, I don't ever offer a verbal opinion nor even appear to be engaged in such conversations.


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## Blacktail (Jul 26, 2021)

There is something much bigger that us at play! Ask yourself why would the world all be so concerned about a virus with a 98.8% survival rate? Remember when Ebola came out? That is some seriou shit but got zero the attention this is! 
none of this makes any logical sense


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## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

slicwilly2000 said:


> Funny thing.  All the people I know that got covid wore N95 or KN95 masks religiously.  I on the other hand only wore it when it was required and had a cloth mask that I could breathe through without getting a headache.  I smoke cigars daily.  Absolutely no one at the cigar lounges wear masks and we're much closer than the 6 foot rule to each other.  Right now the cigar lounge is at most 25% vaccinated and 75% unvaccinated.  I'll take Donald's recommendation of the quinine products over the vaccine any day.  They are definitely effective.  I'm 100% confident I've been exposed to covid by multiple people that did get tested.  I felt tired for a couple days and took a combination of cinchona and black seed oil and felt fine.  If you want to get vaccinated feel free and leave the rest of us alone.
> 
> I'm fairly certain the country will be shut down again due to all the unhealthy people out there that are susceptible to whatever virus is going around.  There should be a tax that people have to pay for eating shit all day and not being active.  It's expensive and it affects the healthy people negatively.
> 
> Slic.


I take chlorite (ClO3) [5mL/1L] (H2O) with [250mL] (H3Ag) colloidal silver.  When my spouse had protein spikes from the ModRNA, I right away recognized it for what it was (COVID symptoms),  prepped a water bottle and the symptoms were gone within the hour.  I've heard stories of the side-effects lasting longer.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

Unfortunately right now you can’t trust science man. Everyone is paid off look at Fauci he’s been lying to is since day 1 he’s been in shady shit since he’s worked on aids back in the day. It’s directly proven that they directly funded the lab to gains of function research the WHO is in chinas pockets and so on. Listen to the people that are being silenced for speaking the truth not what they want you to believe with the shit they pushing. If we knew real numbers about all this shit our minds would be blown we don’t even know real vaccinated numbers you know how many people bought their vaccination and never got it?


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## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

Blacktail said:


> There is something much bigger that us at play! Ask yourself why would the world all be so concerned about a virus with a 98.8% survival rate? Remember when Ebola came out? That is some seriou shit but got zero the attention this is!
> none of this makes any logical sense


I agree and keep it to myself or share only with those I trust.  I wouldn't lend my thoughts on what is going on, only to have a spotlight put on me.


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## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Unfortunately right now you can’t trust science man. Everyone is paid off look at Fauci he’s been lying to is since day 1 he’s been in shady shit since he’s worked on aids back in the day. It’s directly proven that they directly funded the lab to gains of function research the WHO is in chinas pockets and so on. Listen to the people that are being silenced for speaking the truth not what they want you to believe with the shit they pushing. If we knew real numbers about all this shit our minds would be blown we don’t even know real vaccinated numbers you know how many people bought their vaccination and never got it?


I saw his response to Rand Paul; have your ever seen a snake shed it's skin?


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I saw his response to Rand Paul; have your ever seen a snake shed it's skin?


Yeah he got rattled bad first time he got upset didn’t know what to do or say it’s fucked up we have everything in front of us but nothing ever gets done same with Arizona election audit 78,000 votes that are no good and the state refusing to give up servers and no court doing anything about contempt of court charges at all. FYI AZ only 10,000 vote difference


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## quackattack (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> If people here don't believe in Science,  they're entitled to their beliefs. I also think it should be up to every individual whether or not they get vaccinated; I don't agree with mandating vaccines.
> 
> But if you believe in science, and you still don't think masks work, just read this article and have a look at the studies that back up its claims:
> 
> ...


I read through this article. The only scientific studies that this article references is one done with damp clothes as face masks and one done with N95 respirators, neither of which is common practice. 

The article goes on to reference differences in transmission rates between masked and unmasked states. I also find problems with this because if you look at the charts for Florida vs California and New York, you can not easily discern which states had mask mandates and which ones did not.

Finally they referenced a few stories of masked people in close contact with others while having COVID with no transmission.  I personally know someone that was in close contact with a COVID infected individual at a conference.  This was early on in the pandemic and no one else at the conference became infected.  No one had a mask on.

I just feel everyone keeps calling stuff like this science yet there really isn’t any study to back it up. 

No hard feelings Cohiba. We will just have to agree to disagree


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

quackattack said:


> I read through this article. The only scientific studies that this article references is one done with damp clothes as face masks and one done with N95 respirators, neither of which is common practice.
> 
> The article goes on to reference differences in transmission rates between masked and unmasked states. I also find problems with this because if you look at the charts for Florida vs California and New York, you can not easily discern which states had mask mandates and which ones did not.
> 
> ...


Damn good catches son


----------



## BrotherIron (Jul 26, 2021)

BigSwolePump said:


> Its like putting a hula hoop in front of you to protect you from mosquitos. The virus is microscopic...literally.
> 
> If anything was learned by this, it should be to wash your fuking hands and to keep you hands away from your face...you know, hygiene and all.
> 
> Nasty mofos


And Strength your immune system.


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Blacktail said:


> There is something much bigger that us at play! Ask yourself why would the world all be so concerned about a virus with a 98.8% survival rate? Remember when Ebola came out? That is some seriou shit but got zero the attention this is!
> none of this makes any logical sense


US census bureau says there are about 331,449,281 million people living in the USA today. So if what you're saying is true and the virus has a 98.8% survival rate, that means it could potentially kill 3,977,391 people.

Ebola didn't spread nearly as fast as Covid does. There have already been over 600k deaths in this country. Makes logical sense to me that people would be concerned.


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Unfortunately right now you can’t trust science man. Everyone is paid off look at Fauci he’s been lying to is since day 1 he’s been in shady shit since he’s worked on aids back in the day. It’s directly proven that they directly funded the lab to gains of function research the WHO is in chinas pockets and so on. Listen to the people that are being silenced for speaking the truth not what they want you to believe with the shit they pushing. If we knew real numbers about all this shit our minds would be blown we don’t even know real vaccinated numbers you know how many people bought their vaccination and never got it?


You're talking about politics and individuals, not science. Those are 2 completely different things. Peer reviewed research is the closest we can get to the truth these days. But if you don't trust it, that's on you. You have a right to your opinion. Might as well not go to the doctor or take medicine when you get sick.


----------



## BrotherIron (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> US census bureau says there are about 331,449,281 million people living in the USA today. So if what you're saying is true and the virus has a 98.8% survival rate, that means it could potentially kill 3,977,391 people.
> 
> Ebola didn't spread nearly as fast as Covid does. There have already been over 600k deaths in this country. Makes logical sense to me that people would be concerned.


Ebola doesn't kill as many and I'm assuming you're talking about Ebola Zaire b/c it kills the host to quickly and you should be thankful for that.


----------



## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> You're talking about politics and individuals, not science. Those are 2 completely different things. Peer reviewed research is the closest we can get to the truth these days. But if you don't trust it, that's on you. You have a right to your opinion. Might as well not go to the doctor or take medicine when you get sick.











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----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> US census bureau says there are about 331,449,281 million people living in the USA today. So if what you're saying is true and the virus has a 98.8% survival rate, that means it could potentially kill 3,977,391 people.
> 
> Ebola didn't spread nearly as fast as Covid does. There have already been over 600k deaths in this country. Makes logical sense to me that people would be concerned.


You really have to take in consideration about what else is going on around us.  Hate Trump or love Trump there 100% was election fraud in many states. Pandemic breaks our before election they have the vaccine in time to give to people before the election they wait until after to announce it’s ready. These so far are facts my opinion from what I’m seeing is that they had a vaccine a long time ago.

more facts just came out the Whittmer Michigan governor kidnapping plot was made by an FBI agent/informer look what’s happening world wide now we have proof it was a lab leak from China my opinion on purpose say accidental ok why the cover up still?

10 million jobs open right now fact people don’t wanna work cause government paying more to stay home. The pandemic was the biggest wealth transfer ever. There is so much shit going on at one time that there is something in the works man fuck anyone’s political views we as people need to see this the CRT in schools antifa burned down police stations courthouses and Jan 6th they saying was the worst thing since the civil war Biden said? Look mans half dead there are videos all over the internet of his son smoking crack in bed and the whole laptop thing was swept under the rug now he’s selling art work and the White House said buyers will be anonymous how is the White House getting involved in this?

This is all crazy and we all are going to realize too late and that’s the sad part.


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Damn good catches son


Well Quackattack deleted his post, probably because he is dead wrong.



			https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf
		


This research paper alone (from the article) cites over 20 studies on the efficacy of masks. And again his other comments you qouted were assumptions he is making and one piece of anecdotal evidence.

It's like me saying my bother caught covid because he never wore masks. Yes it might be true, but it would be ignorant for me to base my beliefs about such a broad topic on such limited experience.


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Well Quackattack deleted his post, probably because he is dead wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


about masks man today great example people at the party wore them then they take them off then they touch their face sure if you wear a n95 all day don’t take it off or touch your face get home clean your self then take it off ok maybe but if you touched covid then your eye well you fucked anyways.


----------



## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

I don't have much to say about masks or vaccines and I understand people are afraid of dying.  I learned long ago not to be afraid of what has the potential to destroy my body; I fear what could destroy my body and soul.


----------



## quackattack (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Well Quackattack deleted his post, probably because he is dead wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t know who deleted my comment but I did not.


----------



## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

quackattack said:


> I don’t know who deleted my comment but I did not.


Modz


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> You really have to take in consideration about what else is going on around us.  Hate Trump or love Trump there 100% was election fraud in many states. Pandemic breaks our before election they have the vaccine in time to give to people before the election they wait until after to announce it’s ready. These so far are facts my opinion from what I’m seeing is that they had a vaccine a long time ago.
> 
> more facts just came out the Whittmer Michigan governor kidnapping plot was made by an FBI agent/informer look what’s happening world wide now we have proof it was a lab leak from China my opinion on purpose say accidental ok why the cover up still?
> 
> ...



I'm not getting into politics here. A virus doesn't care what political persuasion you are. All I care about is people getting accurate information and putting things in perspective when it comes to the numbers regarding the vaccines and the virus.

I'm ashamed of myself if I don't say something when I see people come on here and post that masks are bullshit and don't prevent the spread of the virus.

I'm embarrassed of myself if I don't stand up to people making false claims that vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent.

Because when enough people post bad information on the internet, people read it, some believe it, and unfortunately they make bad decisions and sometimes die. It's sad.


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

quackattack said:


> I don’t know who deleted my comment but I did not.


What was bad about the comment?


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

And I just want to say, I love and respect you guys. None of this is personal.


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> I'm not getting into politics here. A virus doesn't care what political persuasion you are. All I care about is people getting accurate information and putting things in perspective when it comes to the numbers regarding the vaccines and the virus.
> 
> I'm ashamed of myself if I don't say something when I see people come on here and post that masks are bullshit and don't prevent the spread of the virus.
> 
> ...


Dude these are your opinions how do you know that people that think the opposite of you are not right?

How you feel ashamed and embarrassed that’s how a lot of people feel that others don’t do actual research just stuff that’s put out there by people that we obviously can’t trust. You can’t tell me you trust the government look what’s happening. I’m def not trusting anything they tell
Me to do right now.

simplest response that made the most sense to me is that you got the vaccine you can get the virus and pass it’s still you don’t have it still the same so get vaccinated or don’t shouldn’t bother anyone especially the government


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

for example look at this Canada has a injury support for vaccine side effects government program that gives you financial support once the vaccine fucks you up

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2021/6/1/1_5451579.html


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Dude these are your opinions how do you know that people that think the opposite of you are not right?
> 
> How you feel ashamed and embarrassed that’s how a lot of people feel that others don’t do actual research just stuff that’s put out there by people that we obviously can’t trust. You can’t tell me you trust the government look what’s happening. I’m def not trusting anything they tell
> Me to do right now.
> ...


I don't trust the government either Bobby. I'm a pretty paranoid prepper guy who leans libertarian. I trust academia and modern medicine mostly. I trust the scientific method. I read a lot. My educational background is in psychology and social work (not medicine). So if you want to know where I'm coming from, that is who I am. 

Take my opinion for what it's worth. You have a right to your own.


----------



## Blacktail (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> US census bureau says there are about 331,449,281 million people living in the USA today. So if what you're saying is true and the virus has a 98.8% survival rate, that means it could potentially kill 3,977,391 people.
> 
> Ebola didn't spread nearly as fast as Covid does. There have already been over 600k deaths in this country. Makes logical sense to me that people would be concerned.


98% is hell goo odds. The people who die are sick and week. We are currently in the process of distributing and possibly destroying the freedom we know. Seems very very setup, but why we yet know….


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> for example look at this Canada has a injury support for vaccine side effects government program that gives you financial support once the vaccine fucks you up
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2021/6/1/1_5451579.html


That's great but again, look at the stats in the article you posted:

"And while serious reactions to vaccines are extremely rare -- less than one in a million, according to PHAC -- they have happened."


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> That's great but again, look at the stats in the article you posted:
> 
> "And while serious reactions to vaccines are extremely rare -- less than one in a million, according to PHAC -- they have happened."


It’s not rare to get messed up by the vaccine I’m being serious here if it was that rare Canada could not have a program to compensate like a disability let’s just drop this and hope your right and I’m wrong


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Blacktail said:


> 98% is hell goo odds. The people who die are sick and week. We are currently in the process of distributing and possibly destroying the freedom we know. Seems very very setup, but why we yet know….


You're aware that we have very healthy members of this board who almost died or had sever complications from Covid right?

Because it's easy to say that only people with pre-existing conditions and all die, but unfortunately that's not always the case. And unfortunately some people have loved ones with pre-existing conditions that make them vulnerable, even if you do not.


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> It’s not rare to get messed up by the vaccine I’m being serious here if it was that rare Canada could not have a program to compensate like a disability let’s just drop this and hope your right and I’m wrong


I'm just quoting the article you posted bro. Maybe it's fake news??!?!


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> You're aware that we have very healthy members of this board who almost died or had sever complications from Covid right?
> 
> Because it's easy to say that only people with pre-existing conditions and all die, but unfortunately that's not always the case. And unfortunately some people have loved ones with pre-existing conditions that make them vulnerable, even if you do not.


Just cause people got covid does not mean they or everyone else needs to take a vaccine that is not even approved or studied or has a track record yet. Basically you took something you have no idea what it will do to you in the long run and you can’t even argue that because there is no research yet because it just came out.

I sympathize for any one hurt got sick died or had any loved ones hurt or die because of covid but that’s does not mean I’m going to inject myself with something there is no data on or even what is going to happen in the years to come.

Of course the government gonna say that on their place to pay people out on let’s wait to see how big that list is of people messed up. If this was out for a while and we have actual data I would take it I’m not a
Anti vaxer my kids get their shots all the time what’s been around and proven but when that I’m scarred look at autism linked to vaccines


----------



## transcend2007 (Jul 26, 2021)

I find it interesting how many people believe they are medical experts because they read this or that ... if you look hard enough from less dependable sources there is literally data to support any position ....

At some point common sense must prevail ... as I've said from day 1 Covid is far less serious than the media has reported ... it was high-jacked worldwide for political reasons .. yes people died .. friends of ours (on this very form got very sick) ... but when the overall data is reviewed the legit death rate will be under .3% .. people forget about all the people never tested who got it world wide and never went the hospital or died ... antibody testing has shown a far greater numbers have been infected than most numbers that get reported ...

Again with all this said ... we need to stop the nonsense ... people scared of the vaccine don't take it ... everyone else take it ... free choice ... this use to be a FREE country that lead the world ... now we're much weaker ....

One thing I've learned over the process is the complete lack of leadership .... and complete lack of media in the US that cares about the truth ... its unbelievable to me how much has changed in 10 years ....  I do not recognize the country I live in any more ...


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

transcend2007 said:


> I find it interesting how many people believe they are medical experts because they read this or that ... if you look hard enough from less dependable sources there is literally data to support any position ....
> 
> At some point common sense must prevail ... as I've said from day 1 Covid is far less serious than the media has reported ... it was high-jacked worldwide for political reasons .. yes people died .. friends of ours (on this very form got very sick) ... but when the overall data is reviewed the legit death rate will be under .3% .. people forget about all the people never tested who got it world wide and never went the hospital or died ... antibody testing has shown a far greater numbers have been infected than most numbers that get reported ...
> 
> ...


Pretty sure this guys numbers are accurate he breaks it down the actual covid death percentage for the world https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdWnLSE2/


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Just cause people got covid does not mean they or everyone else needs to take a vaccine that is not even approved or studied or has a track record yet. Basically you took something you have no idea what it will do to you in the long run and you can’t even argue that because there is no research yet because it just came out.
> 
> I sympathize for any one hurt got sick died or had any loved ones hurt or die because of covid but that’s does not mean I’m going to inject myself with something there is no data on or even what is going to happen in the years to come.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm just going to correct one thing here because there is actual data on the vaccines and there are ongoing studies. The first one began in March of 2020, so they have been collecting data for a year and 4 months. But yes, longer term results will be nice.

I'm not going to get into the vaccine / autism bullshit. I'm running out of steam here.


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Pretty sure this guys numbers are accurate he breaks it down the actual covid death percentage for the world https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdWnLSE2/


Don't come at me with TikTok vids to prove your points bro. I'm not in 5th grade. This is where all the bullshit gets spread, TikTok and facebook. Anyone can make a fucking tiktok video saying whatever they want.


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Ok, I'm just going to correct one thing here because there is actual data on the vaccines and there are ongoing studies. The first one began in March of 2020, so they have been collecting data for a year and 4 months. But yes, longer term results will be nice.
> 
> I'm not going to get into the vaccine / autism bullshit. I'm running out of steam here.


That’s what I’m saying you can’t call it bullshit cause only know 2 people that have kids with autism and both said kids were fine until one day they got a vaccine and shit started happening after that.

We’ll talk again after the Jan 6 commission does their shit see what rights they take away them and which way shit goes


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Don't come at me with TikTok vids to prove your points bro. I'm not in 5th grade. This is where all the bullshit gets spread, TikTok and facebook. Anyone can make a fucking tiktok video saying whatever they want.


Lol dude if the guys using real numbers and math how you gonna argue that? Real bullshit is the news and what the government tells you. You fit see anything important covered in the main stream at all so I would call that bullshit.


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> That’s what I’m saying you can’t call it bullshit cause only know 2 people that have kids with autism and both said kids were fine until one day they got a vaccine and shit started happening after that.
> 
> We’ll talk again after the Jan 6 commission does their shit see what rights they take away them and which way shit goes


But Bobby you can't make assumptions based on anecdotal evidence like that. Just because something happens around the same time as something else, does not mean that one event caused the other.

This is why people use the scientific method to study things like that. You CAN take that anecdotal evidence and form a hypothesis:

"Vaccines cause autism" (example hypothesis)

Then you collect data and use statistical analysis to evaluate the data and draw conclusions from it.

You can't just assume that everything that happens around the time a person gets a vaccine is caused by the vaccine. (Well I guess you can, but it's not a very rational thing to do).


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> But Bobby you can't make assumptions based on anecdotal evidence like that. Just because something happens around the same time as something else, does not mean that one event caused the other.
> 
> This is why people use the scientific method to study things like that. You CAN take that anecdotal evidence and form a hypothesis:
> 
> ...


Bro you think the people that push the shit and are in control of getting the data will give you shit to show you they are wrong and fucked you?


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Bro you think the people that push the shit and are in control of getting the data will give you shit to show you they are wrong and fucked you?


Studies can be done by anyone! That's what's great about science. NIH ran the first Moderna study that I posted the start date on. Drug companies fail efficacy studies all the time and lose lots of money when their drugs don't get approved because of it.

Does bad shit like what you're talking about happen though? Unfortunately yes. A new Alzheimer's drug just got FDA approval on some really poor studies that backed it. Members of  the FDA resigned over it. Very sad. It's not a perfect world we live in. There is some bullshit that goes in in the scientific community sometimes. I won't claim it's perfect.


----------



## slicwilly2000 (Jul 26, 2021)

I don't know how anyone can trust the government and pharmaceutical companies after Tuskegee.  Common sense says don't trust them.  As far as the vaccines causing autism I believe you can use genetic testing to come up with a pretty good case with lots of evidence that it did or did not.  Ancestry DNA or 23andme or whatever else is out there now.  For $100 you can pay for the testing and another $50ish for the reports and then you'll know for sure.  

Slic.


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Studies can be done by anyone! That's what's great about science. NIH ran the first Moderna study that I posted the start date on. Drug companies fail efficacy studies all the time and lose lots of money when their drugs don't get approved because of it.
> 
> Does bad shit like what you're talking about happen though? Unfortunately yes. A new Alzheimer's drug just got FDA approval on some really poor studies that backed it. Members of  the FDA resigned over it. Very sad. It's not a perfect world we live in. There is some bullshit that goes in in the scientific community sometimes. I won't claim it's perfect.


Listen man I like you and I’m leaving this discussion now because I don’t wanna keep going back and forth we will be going for months lol I pray to god everything works out in then country and works ASAP because I have a little me growing up fast and I want the world to be a good place for him so he don’t have to go through what my parents did in Poland have a great night gentlemen


----------



## MrBafner (Jul 26, 2021)

My study shows that the society we now live in is controlled by so many covid warriors pushing the same old govt bullshit on to everyone they meet.
They'll ask questions, have you had the vaccine? .. why not? .. you're high risk.

How about telling people that if they get it, there is a good chance you will survive without any complications. If you live a healthy lifestyle you have a better chance of having very little side effects from Covid - the World Health Organisations website does state that most people will only have minor symptoms like a cold or a headache.

Why not allow people to build their natural immunity to Covid and hopefully nature will fend off the stronger variants coming - such as Lambda which has a much higher mortality rate.

I have good friends that now require me to be tested if I want to visit. How stupid is this society getting?


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> Listen man I like you and I’m leaving this discussion now because I don’t wanna keep going back and forth we will be going for months lol I pray to god everything works out in then country and works ASAP because I have a little me growing up fast and I want the world to be a good place for him so he don’t have to go through what my parents did in Poland have a great night gentlemen


Peace out. I gotta go provide husbanding services.


----------



## Blacktail (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> You're aware that we have very healthy members of this board who almost died or had sever complications from Covid right?
> 
> Because it's easy to say that only people with pre-existing conditions and all die, but unfortunately that's not always the case. And unfortunately some people have loved ones with pre-existing conditions that make them vulnerable, even if you do not.


Yes I am and that sucks! But again 98%. 98% man what part of that is so hard to understand. I had it and it was like a very bad cold. 
everyone is entitled to what they believe, the problem is that they are trying to infringe on my belief.


----------



## BRICKS (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> But Bobby you can't make assumptions based on anecdotal evidence like that. Just because something happens around the same time as something else, does not mean that one event caused the other.
> 
> This is why people use the scientific method to study things like that. You CAN take that anecdotal evidence and form a hypothesis:
> 
> ...


Agree but people are gonna.  I've spent 5 years reading on this board how every symptom that happens must be related to the AAS somebody is using.  "My dick don't work" response...gotta be your e2.  Well, I can think of about 20 things of the top of my head that lead to dick don't work.


----------



## flenser (Jul 26, 2021)

Here are some basic stats. They change over time, but they're closer than anything I've read in this thread so far. 

population 330 million

deaths WITH COVID 604,000
total chance of dying WITH covid: 604K/330M*100 = 0.18%
total cases 34,000,000
total chance of getting covid = 34M/330M * 100 = 10%
total chance of dying after getting covid: 604k/34M*100 = 1.8%

seven day average cases 40K 
seven day average deaths 239
chances THIS WEEK of dying after getting covid: 239/40K*100 = 0.6%
Just showing the total risk is changing/falling over time.

Vaccine doses administered: 339M 
reported (VAERS) deaths after dose: 6000
chances of dying after getting BOTH shots: 2 * 6000/239M*100 = 0.0035%
That's roughly 29,000 to one.

I wanted to show an age comparison of dying with covid and dying with the vaccine, but national cases by age are evidently a closely held secret. Death stats are widely available, of course, but one without the other is useless. There IS an age below which the risk of dying after getting the vaccines is equal to or greater than the risk of dying from covid, but I couldn't find reliable enough data on it, just political commentary.


----------



## BRICKS (Jul 26, 2021)

Off track of the original post, but since this is a bodybuilding forum I'm gonna post this additional stat:  78% of covid hoapitalizations were overweight or obese, 50.2% obese, 27.8% overweight (as in over fat overweight).

Ok, having posted that now I'm gonna say you can talk stats all you want, but I don't know that anyone has the true numbers. The CDC, WHO, our government and the media can't be trusted.  Anyone who listens to Fauci at this point, I honestly have no words for you.  "They" have said a mask does not protect the user it protects others...I guess viral particles only travel through that thing one way, huh.  There's a big long list if things that outrank my priority list of things to be concerned about ahead of covid.  Nobody is trying something devious with the vaccine, your'e not gonna have some event or syndrome down the road, blah and blah.  If anything, as I said before, like moat if the shit sensationalized by the media, it's smoke and mirrors while the dirty shit happens quietly and unnoticed.  I'd be more concerned about things like inflation and the division of this country from within and thus the incredible weakening of America from it's enemies.

"The greatest victory is that which requires no battle"  Sun Tzu...."The Art of War"


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Jul 26, 2021)

Just passed another mask mandate in Nevada. Might just be Clark county. Only those currently employed and working have to wear a mask even if vaccinated. So while you're on the clock and inside we have to wear masks. 

I knew some shit like this would happen again. Our governor beats off to his power tripping.


----------



## Adrenolin (Jul 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> Here are some basic stats. They change over time, but they're closer than anything I've read in this thread so far.
> 
> population 330 million
> 
> ...


I just wanna see a legitimate count of deaths directly caused by covid. Not they had covid when they died, or covid may have had a part but it was pneumonia that killed them, just covid alone as the sole cause of death. Strangely, that statistic just isn't listed anywhere.


----------



## transcend2007 (Jul 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> Here are some basic stats. They change over time, but they're closer than anything I've read in this thread so far.
> 
> population 330 million
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why people include numbers on total cases ... this number is misleading and wrong ... its toal covid cases that were tested and confirmed ... what about covid positive cases NOT tested because they were either asystematic or a healthy person not sick enough to go the hospital ... or had covid before April 2020 before testing in the United States was widely available ... the 34 million number is HUGELY uncounted for these reasons ... antibody testing indicates a likely 30 to 50 million uncount ... but people continue using this invalid data ... mostly to show an untrue inflated death rate ... sensible people should be asking why they do this ... the obvious answer is control ... and no one can deny more personal freedom has been lost in this past 18 months than in the previous 200 years (speaking for US) ... and the push back has been minimal ... at what point do people say enough is enough ... most people are happy that they received stimulus money and not had to work for over a year ... but at what price ... as I said 18 months ago ... people are sheep ... being lead to off the cliff ...


----------



## RISE (Jul 26, 2021)

If you think a virus that has spread to every country on this planet is gonna go away from wearing masks that are not 100% effective, I have beachside property to sell you in kansas.


----------



## DF (Jul 26, 2021)

BRICKS said:


> Off track of the original post, but since this is a bodybuilding forum I'm gonna post this additional stat:  78% of covid hoapitalizations were overweight or obese, 50.2% obese, 27.8% overweight (as in over fat overweight).
> 
> Ok, having posted that now I'm gonna say you can talk stats all you want, but I don't know that anyone has the true numbers. The CDC, WHO, our government and the media can't be trusted.  Anyone who listens to Fauci at this point, I honestly have no words for you.  "They" have said a mask does not protect the user it protects others...I guess viral particles only travel through that thing one way, huh.  There's a big long list if things that outrank my priority list of things to be concerned about ahead of covid.  Nobody is trying something devious with the vaccine, your'e not gonna have some event or syndrome down the road, blah and blah.  If anything, as I said before, like moat if the shit sensationalized by the media, it's smoke and mirrors while the dirty shit happens quietly and unnoticed.  I'd be more concerned about things like inflation and the division of this country from within and thus the incredible weakening of America from it's enemies.
> 
> "The greatest victory is that which requires no battle"  Sun Tzu...."The Art of War"


Hey watch it buddy! LOL  But yea on my medical records I am classified as OBESE! The sonsabitches need to stop with the BMI!  At the time 5'10" 210 ish?  Not even shitting My medical intake says obese.


----------



## 1bigun11 (Jul 26, 2021)

DF said:


> Hey watch it buddy! LOL  But yea on my medical records I am classified as OBESE! The sonsabitches need to stop with the BMI!  At the time 5'10" 210 ish?  Not even shitting My medical intake says obese.


At 60 years old, 5'9", 285# I tried to convince my "scientist" doctor I was still alive.  He said, "Sorry sir, based on your age and BMI I have statistical proof that you died five years ago and my flowchart says I must call a Hearse for you immediately or I'll be in violation of hospital protocol, lol ....


----------



## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

My  other employer is the government and they give us monetary incentives per month for being healthy.  That said, either two options for getting incentives at any level is BMI or testing.  I always pick the testing because if they use the BMI, it classifies me as overweight...   5-7, 195


----------



## flenser (Jul 26, 2021)

transcend2007 said:


> I'm not sure why people include numbers on total cases ... this number is misleading and wrong ... its toal covid cases that were tested and confirmed ... what about covid positive cases NOT tested because they were either asystematic or a healthy person not sick enough to go the hospital ... or had covid before April 2020 before testing in the United States was widely available ... the 34 million number is HUGELY uncounted for these reasons ... antibody testing indicates a likely 30 to 50 million uncount ... but people continue using this invalid data ... mostly to show an untrue inflated death rate ... sensible people should be asking why they do this ... the obvious answer is control ... and no one can deny more personal freedom has been lost in this past 18 months than in the previous 200 years (speaking for US) ... and the push back has been minimal ... at what point do people say enough is enough ... most people are happy that they received stimulus money and not had to work for over a year ... but at what price ... as I said 18 months ago ... people are sheep ... being lead to off the cliff ...


Of course, plenty of death certificates list COVID as the cause without so much as a PCR test. And don't forget the 34M does include tons of false positives from said PCR test.

But in general I agree with you. None of the numbers I produced are all that accurate. I produced them with the data available, that's all. They do provide a baseline, though, which can be used to show general progress. In effect, more people survive than before. A lot more. 

The data can show one other thing, and that is just how politicized it has all become. Virtually every site I visited had the data organized to promote a particular agenda. Anything that didn't fit was excluded, and sometimes the data was (I gather) deliberately misrepresented.

So you should add in your uncount and generate new survival rates. They would still be gross estimations, but they would at least provide an upper range.


----------



## flenser (Jul 26, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> I just wanna see a legitimate count of deaths directly caused by covid. Not they had covid when they died, or covid may have had a part but it was pneumonia that killed them, just covid alone as the sole cause of death. Strangely, that statistic just isn't listed anywhere.


Almost no one dies directly of COVID. One or more comorbidities is near universal.


----------



## Send0 (Jul 26, 2021)

I find this thread really amusing. At least half of us inject compounds we don't bother to send to a lab to identify the compound and/or contaminates within it... yet some of the same people are up in arms about a vaccine potentially being dangerous, or that they have RFID chips in them 😂

People react to all substances differently. Even the way we metabolize macro nutrients are different... but about 98% of people will metabolize things close to identically. Vaccines are similar... just because a certain population of people report a problem doesn't mean it isn't effective and safe for the remaining 98% of people.

It's a calculated risk, where we as individuals determine our own comfort level with the risk profile at hand. For me, if something can help me avoid getting sick... and more importantly, if it can help me avoid getting others sick _(especially the elderly, very very young, and those with disabilities) _then I'm willing to take on the small amount of risk documented so far to date.

That's my personal opinion, and perspective, on the topic... and like assholes, everyone else has their own as well. 😎


----------



## Joliver (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> This is not accurate Bobby. You're spreading misinformation here. There is Vaers data that comes close to this number (0.00004%) but that data is the chance of having ANY type of adverse medical event after getting a covid vaccine, not dying. Your chances of dying from Covid are considerably higher.
> 
> The odds of getting struck by lightning in your lifetime according to the National Weather Service (https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-odds) are 1 in 15,300 (0.00006%), higher than having an adverse event from a covid vaccine.
> 
> Now tell me how great your 99.7% chance of surviving covid sounds compare to those numbers. Do the math.


Here's a peer reviewed study with N> 1,000,000. To sit there and pretend it's a "no-brainer" is to not know the data....or not care. But it's all political with you people anyway. Petty power....exercised for the greater good of the party, no doubt. 

You say the vaccine works, and masks work. Take the shot...put on the mask. But somehow, you're in danger if I don't? How? Show me something that demonstrates that it endangers you. 

I'm not an anti vax person. I travel over seas for work all the time. I've had more shots than most on this forum, I'd suppose. This one vaccine demonstrates the ability to injure or kill along the same order of magnitude as the disease itself. 

You people just need to learn to leave other people alone. But you can't. It isn't your ideology.

I don't remember who said "90% better outcome"...but I want to see that data. @dted23 maybe. 

Study highlights: 

"we have to accept four fatal and 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations in order to save the lives of 2–11 individuals per 100,000 vaccinations, placing risks and benefits on the same order of magnitude."

"The present assessment raises the question whether it would be necessary to rethink policies and use COVID-19 vaccines more sparingly and with some discretion only in those that are willing to accept the risk because they feel more at risk from the true infection than the mock infection. Perhaps it might be necessary to dampen the enthusiasm by sober facts?"

"Currently, we see 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations, and the number of fatal side effects is at 4.11/100,000 vaccinations. For three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination. Conclusions: This lack of clear benefit should cause governments to rethink their vaccination policy." 









						The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy
					

Background: COVID-19 vaccines have had expedited reviews without sufficient safety data. We wanted to compare risks and benefits. Method: We calculated the number needed to vaccinate (NNTV) from a large Israeli field study to prevent one death. We accessed the Adverse Drug Reactions (ADR)...




					www.mdpi.com


----------



## TeddyBear (Jul 26, 2021)

Pfizer and BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective in Israel where the delta variant is the dominant strain, according to a new report from the country's Health Ministry.

The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data









						Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads, but still prevents severe illness
					

Pfizer and BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective against delta in Israel, but still provides strong protection against severe illness and hospitalization.




					www.google.com
				




^*Thats the worst study. Most studies are a bit more positive in the Western Hemisphere.*








						Can Today's Vaccines Beat the Delta Variant? | The Motley Fool
					

Moderna, Pfizer, and Johnson & Johnson are optimistic.




					www.fool.com
				




*I didn’t even bother trying to find reputable primary source documents, because regardless of outlet they all suggested similarly.

The Delta Variant is straining the vaccines’ effectiveness. But it depends which shot you got. In MOST cases odds are you wouldn’t get sick.

Surer unvaccinated people are less likely to be hospitalized than be hospitalized. That’s been true.  But vaccinated people are 60-90% even LESS LIKELY to catch Covid, spread covid, feel symptoms, be hospitalized, or die.*


----------



## Iron1 (Jul 26, 2021)

Didn't we have this exact thread a year ago?

The last one didn't sway anyone, this one won't either.

Be good to each other.


----------



## Send0 (Jul 26, 2021)

Joliver said:


> You say the vaccine works, and masks work. Take the shot...put on the mask.* But somehow, you're in danger if I don't?* How? Show me something that demonstrates that it endangers you.
> 
> I'm not an anti vax person. I travel over seas for work all the time. I've had more shots than most on this forum, I'd suppose. This one vaccine demonstrates the ability to injure or kill along the same order of magnitude as the disease itself.
> 
> ...


The only real danger I see is that the non-vaccinated are creating an environment where the virus can continue to breed and mutate into something else... which does have the possibility in putting everyone at risk again. The other risk/danger I see is if people choose to not get the vaccine, then it puts other non-vaccinated people at risk, and those who are higher risk in general regardless if they got vaccinated or not _(i.e. elderly, immuno-compromised people)_. 

If you're fine with that, then you should also be fine with a certain demographic of people _(myself included)_ thinking you're a bit of an asshole. At the same time I understand your hesitation, but despite the fact that I understand the hesitation.. somehow it doesn't stop me from thinking people who refuse to take the vaccine and justify it by pulling the most extreme examples of risk, or flat out conspiracy theory, are assholes.

To be clear, it doesn't mean I look down on those people who refuse to get vaccinated. It just means that on this one particular topic, I think people are being selfish, don't understand how viruses can evolve, and are creating risk for others who are not vaccinated _(or vaccinated but still high risk)_, and potentially creating an environment for an even worse virus to mutate and proliferate.


----------



## TeddyBear (Jul 26, 2021)

I’m not saying this is the case, but many of my friends are leery of a “liberal push for the vaccination.”

Even though on Saturday Trump called “Operation Warp Speed” one of his greatest accomplishments and told people they should get the jab.

Is Trump apart of this grand conspiracy? Did he waste trillions on an unsafe and ineffective vaccine?


----------



## The Phoenix (Jul 26, 2021)

I don't know but this conversation has gotten old.  I'll unsubscribe from this one as it can go forever....


----------



## Skullcrusher (Jul 26, 2021)

Skip to 18:15 - Dr. Robert Malone - Inventor of mRNA Vaccines and RNA Transfection








						Episode 1,120 – Dirty Dozen: The 12 Most Dangerous People in America Pt. 1
					

Breaking down misinformation Our guests are: Naomi Wolf, Dr. Robert Malone, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Stay ahead of the censors - Join us warroom.org/join Aired On: 07/24/2021 Watch: On the Web: http://ww




					rumble.com


----------



## Rot-Iron66 (Jul 26, 2021)

Libturdz are brain-dead, that is all...

*Biden->*




*<-Down Syndrome Kids*


----------



## eazy (Jul 26, 2021)

I enjoyed last winter. It's dark by 4pm. I wore a ski mask everywhere. They didn't like it.


----------



## flenser (Jul 26, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I’m not saying this is the case, but many of my friends are leery of a “liberal push for the vaccination.”
> 
> Even though on Saturday Trump called “Operation Warp Speed” one of his greatest accomplishments and told people they should get the jab.
> 
> Is Trump apart of this grand conspiracy? Did he waste trillions on an unsafe and ineffective vaccine?


So much is being misrepresented and censored these days it's difficult to not be suspicious. Whenever the left or right take a position on something the ability to research it goes to hell.


----------



## RISE (Jul 26, 2021)

I'll stir the pot, this is from OSHA's website...


----------



## 1bigun11 (Jul 26, 2021)

In early 2020, before any vaccine existed, the experts thought this shit was so contagious that a teaspoon full of it could wipe out an entire continent.  Emergency! Emergency! Must shut down all businesses (except Walmart) Must shut down all churches (but political protests are ok). The sky is falling! The sky is falling!  DAMN YOU ALL THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

And then I caught covid anyway. Essential worker.  No paid sick days.  So I had to go to work.  And I had a headache and was tired for two days....I think I even skipped one weight workout.  And I got well.

And I have antibodies now.  Antibodies which some studies say are just as damn good as the antibodies I would have developed had I cowered in a corner during the shutdown and then taken a vaccine--a vaccine that would have probably given me a headache and made me tired for a day and miss a workout...

And I hear the same people crying now that there is a vaccine that were crying then about masks and shutting down churches and businesses, crying that anyone who wont wear a mask and insists on going to church is an asshole. Crying that you aren't scared like they are, that you wont get a vaccine like they do. 

And with me having had covid now, the very thing they all fear more than death itself, they all seem even more kooky and politically driven now as they did then when they were whining about masks, and businesses and churches. 

GO WALMART


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 26, 2021)

Joliver said:


> Here's a peer reviewed study with N> 1,000,000. To sit there and pretend it's a "no-brainer" is to not know the data....or not care. But it's all political with you people anyway. Petty power....exercised for the greater good of the party, no doubt.
> 
> You say the vaccine works, and masks work. Take the shot...put on the mask. But somehow, you're in danger if I don't? How? Show me something that demonstrates that it endangers you.
> 
> ...


You're seriously going to come on here and make these claims based on a journal article that was retracted:

Serious concerns were brought to the attention of the publisher regarding misinterpretation of data, leading to incorrect and distorted conclusions.
The article was evaluated by the Editor-in-Chief with the support of several Editorial Board Members. They found that the article contained several errors that fundamentally affect the interpretation of the findings.

Source:  https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/729/htm

Who's trying to mislead people here?


----------



## RISE (Jul 26, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> You're seriously going to come on here and make these claims based on a journal article that was retracted:
> 
> Serious concerns were brought to the attention of the publisher regarding misinterpretation of data, leading to incorrect and distorted conclusions.
> The article was evaluated by the Editor-in-Chief with the support of several Editorial Board Members. They found that the article contained several errors that fundamentally affect the interpretation of the findings.
> ...


I like that you try to find the truth in the science, but it wasn't that long ago that these scientists were saying white supremacy was a greater concern than covid in this country.  The science has obviously been bought in certain facets.


----------



## DF (Jul 26, 2021)

I have no idea what the Guardian is however,  I used cohost a radio show.  The topic was anything heath related.  Occasionally some Study would hit the headlines like "Sugary Drink not that bad says study".  I'd look into who funded the study..... guess who?


https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ealth-nutrition-sugar-coca-cola-marion-nestle


----------



## RISE (Jul 26, 2021)

Bro I remember years ago I heard some bs article saying that pizza might help fight cancer.  Basically they were saying nutrients in tomatoes might help fight cancer, so they equated that to pizza might help fight cancer.  Fucking tards.  Then there was that commercial years ago that was pro high fructose corn syrup.  


DF said:


> I have no idea what the Guardian is however,  I used cohost a radio show.  The topic was anything heath related.  Occasionally some Study would hit the headlines like "Sugary Drink not that bad says study".  I'd look into who funded the study..... guess who?
> 
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ealth-nutrition-sugar-coca-cola-marion-nestle


----------



## Bobbyloads (Jul 27, 2021)

Damn this still going lmao…. Don’t matter eventually we’re all taking the shot or going into FEMA camps anyways so there you go you guys for the shot win happy?


----------



## Joliver (Jul 27, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> You're seriously going to come on here and make these claims based on a journal article that was retracted:
> 
> Serious concerns were brought to the attention of the publisher regarding misinterpretation of data, leading to incorrect and distorted conclusions.
> The article was evaluated by the Editor-in-Chief with the support of several Editorial Board Members. They found that the article contained several errors that fundamentally affect the interpretation of the findings.
> ...


Certainly not me. Im also not surprised that it's retracted. Especially when the CDC and WHO keep changing the number in vaers and adr. Hard to do arithmetic when you keep changing the numbers. VAERS had 12k deaths from last week. 6k this week. 6,000 people come back to life? They just said "oops." Any study operating off those numbers are now "debunked." 

My parents were doctors. My mother was medical researcher. I'm sure a few of the bros here have heard me say this. And it's not like I've laid down an 8 year backstory for moral high ground for this moment.

I mention this because my medical professional friends I've talked to, they know if they speak out against the covid/vax narrative, they are finished. The federally funded university system is the largest healthcare employer (and employer in total) in the state. That's an incredible incentive to shut up. 

And.... They know the left is the spiritual home of political mob violence. You're just authoritarians masquerading as medical altruists. People with a family don't want to speak out...it's not worth their family, career, or safety. 

CNN slipped up and said "the carrot isn't working...when is it time to use the stick?" with vaccination. Fuck the left and the pale horse they rode in on.

Doctors here have been quietly treating covid successfully with ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine from the beginning. They had to because trump mentioned one of them in a tweet--and leftists would rather a graveyard fill up than trump be correct. But--BOTH drugs have been repeatedly shit on by the "scientific establishment"....and lied about. Here's the quiet redaction of the study that shit on hydroxychloroquine:









						As Biden Became President, Medical Journal Quietly Retracted Study That Claimed Hydroxychloroquine Is Ineffective
					

Their retraction-admission validates what President Trump stated in the very beginning of the pandemic




					nationalfile.com
				




You own no moral high ground. You and your side have said...no masks...then mask up. PCR testing...no PCR testing. It's not man made...it may be man made-- potentially with our own tax dollars. Your political might wags the medical community behind it like a dog's tail. You've so compromised yourselves that if this vaccine was a miracle drug, you wouldn't convince "the silent majority" to take it--and they haven't. You're the party of chicks with dicks are real women..and biology is a social construct.

Take your pious "stop spreading misinformation" bullshit line and cram it down a sheep's throat. The information comes from your side. But just occasionally...there's a doctor that will speak up. They are always cancelled for their efforts...and memory holed. But nobody will forget when Princeton university got wrecked for speaking up for hydroxychloroquine...then had to retract it last year. Or the doctor that pointed out that death rates in the flu were noticably absent last year. He had to lick the boot too. 

But I sit here incredulously thinking "if you're vaccinated and certain of it's effectiveness, and masked up, then why do you demand the rest of us join" when studies...then redactions...then more studies...and more redactions happen--creating doubt in the most reasonable people. Everyone generally agreed that masks were ineffective. The CDC posted the data on such...even as the CDCs redfield--that very day--told congress otherwise. But you'd rather call us stupid tin foil hat wearers as opposed to deal with real reasonable doubt. 

Your idea of "agreed upon science" is essentially you agreeing with yourself in your echo chamber. The opposition has been stifled. 

Take your vaccine...and leave the rest of us alone. Or allow us to study you for long term side effects...so that we may safely partake in a proven therapy. 

Perhaps I shouldn't be so harsh on the canaries in the coal mine. All the methane you want bro.


----------



## BRICKS (Jul 27, 2021)

Jol thanks for the articulate post.....like I said in my earlier post, 5% real problem, 95% bullshit (I believe I said smoke and mirrors)


----------



## CohibaRobusto (Jul 27, 2021)

Joliver said:


> Certainly not me. Im also not surprised that it's retracted. Especially when the CDC and WHO keep changing the number in vaers and adr. Hard to do arithmetic when you keep changing the numbers. VAERS had 12k deaths from last week. 6k this week. 6,000 people come back to life? They just said "oops." Any study operating off those numbers are now "debunked."
> 
> My parents were doctors. My mother was medical researcher. I'm sure a few of the bros here have heard me say this. And it's not like I've laid down an 8 year backstory for moral high ground for this moment.
> 
> ...


So actually you're pushing factually inaccurate information again.. the study you posted (not me!) uses data from the Netherlands, not US government data. So you see, it has nothing to do with the CDC or anyone else changing numbers on us. Sorry it doesn't fit your conspiracy theories.

And the reason it was retracted was the basic principal I have been arguing since the start of all this. They attributed any type of death that occurred after the vaccine to the vaccine.

You can't do that. Correlation does not equal causation. Let's say we took a poll on how many people got in car accidents after getting vaccinated, and we found the number to be quite astounding to the naked eye. Would that mean the vaccine caused the car accidents?

I think you know the answer to this. This is the same problem that people have been yelling from the rooftops about causes of death attributed to Covid that may have been due to other factors. Only with Covid at least we know they were really sick.

You keep lumping me in with the "left," but I'm actually not a democrat, and this is not a political discussion in my opinion. My arguments are about facts and science, and so far none of the people arguing that vaccines are dangerous have been able to provide a shred of credible evidence to that end.

Your rants about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin... don't even get me started. They're useless, proven useless. I even bought some early on hoping they would be the magical cure Trump sold them to be. Dumb decision on my part.

I'm not promoting the CDC or anything the government has done to deal with this. But I do defend the science behind masks and vaccines.

What you do with that is your choice. I don't support mandated vaccination either.


----------



## Joliver (Jul 27, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> So actually you're pushing factually inaccurate information again.. the study you posted (not me!) uses data from the Netherlands, not US government data. So you see, it has nothing to do with the CDC or anyone else changing numbers on us. Sorry it doesn't fit your conspiracy theories.
> 
> And the reason it was retracted was the basic principal I have been arguing since the start of all this. They attributed any type of death that occurred after the vaccine to the vaccine.
> 
> ...


No...it's ADR data from the European medicine agency. No qualms were registered about the Israeli data of over 1 million. 

So let's look at the leftist twisted sense on "data" on display here. The data is determined "faulty" because causation wasn't proved. So essentially people that took the vaccine and died from a Johnson and Johnson blood clot special a week later, if the fearful doctor didn't write "vaccine death" on the death certificate, it "shouldn't count" because it was a stroke. That's what made the data "faulty." But the family was free to register the death on the ADR of they suspected it was due to the vaccine. The reason the vaers data is brought into this is because its the same process. But if the data was meaningless, why would they purge 6,000 deaths last week? 

Their argument was with causation not correlation. They didn't say it was wrong...they said "they needed to do more research to infer causation." 

But the authoritarians weren't so cautious with covid causation. A few months ago, my friend died in a motorcycle accident and his life insurance paid double indemnity for accidents. He got labeled covid and his family got fucked out of his final gift...because doctors. I know these people. They had to have his body exhumed for another autopsy so his kids could get what was there. Still in court today. I've posted on this months prior. 

And who can forget the guy that fell off the ladder and died of covid? 









						Man who died after falling from a 10-foot ladder was actually killed by COVID-19: doctors
					

A construction worker who died after plunging from a 10-foot ladder in Croatia was actually killed by the coronavirus, doctors said in a report. The unnamed 51-year-old man fell into a yard while b…




					nypost.com
				




The sick shit is that you KNOW and ADMIT that the medical institutions lied about covid deaths in your post. But ABSOLUTELY DEMAND scanning tunneling electron microscope precision with vaccine injury data from people with no resources, after a tragedy, with every government and corporate body against them. 

And just exactly who, pray tell, is going to investigate the hopelessly corrupt, fearfully cowed, or fiscally agreeable medical community? I mean that's why my buddy "died of covid" because the hospital got dollars for it. 

And I don't care who you say you voted for. Your actions tell me who you are. And not one damn person here believes otherwise. And I never said democrat...you're a leftist....you're just too lukewarm to demand my job and kids be taken from me. I've been in a lab a hell of a lot longer than you....and I've never seen anything this experimental and technologically new be "as advertised." 

I know I've changed no minds here. But neither have you. I'm just here to make sure you fight for long enough that you say enough for reasonable people on here to know you are a partisan.

You make excuses of my data and swipe it away with the full weight of the big medicine/pharma at your back. But to pretend its settled science not worthy of reconsideration is a fools errand. Time is going to decide this debate.


----------



## Joliver (Jul 27, 2021)

Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine study....for what it's worth.

"Improvements with early treatments include reduction of up to 36.5% in viral shedding (p < 0.0001), 85% in disease duration (p < 0.0001), 95% in post-COVID symptoms, and 100% in respiratory complications, hospitalization, mechanical ventilations, deaths (p < 0.0001 for all). For every 1,000 confirmed cases for COVID-19, at least 140 hospitalizations, 50 mechanical ventilations and five deaths were prevented with treatment."









						Early COVID-19 therapy with azithromycin plus nitazoxanide, ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine in outpatient settings significantly improved COVID-19 outcomes compared to known outcomes in untreated patients
					

In a prospective observational study (pre-AndroCoV Trial), the use of nitazoxanide, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine demonstrated unexpected improvem…




					www.sciencedirect.com


----------



## AlienAgent (Jul 27, 2021)

My wife is a nurse of nearly 20 years. She brought home C19 to us twice, three months apart. Lamest cold ever, was our experience. All the old people at her facility kicked it, except 2 or 3 that were ancient and in horrible shape anyway. All the nursing home employees around here caught it as well. They see similiar type diseases run through every 3 or 4 years. 

After a 70+ y/o lung cancer patient beat it with zinc, c, and d... I lost the mask and moved on. 

I think the big push for vaccines at this point is purely financial. They got a mountain of them left and need to get em gone. Que the 24/7 ad campaign. I'm over the whole thing. No more mask here, not bothering with the vaccine either.
 Especially after my buddies Mom died within a week of getting her 2nd and the numerous cases of side effects and deaths that swept through our local nursing homes as those old folks got their shots. Even my step dad in law passed very shortly after getting his. It's unproven tech, and I aint the type to buy the first year of a newly, redesigned automobile...


----------



## mugzy (Jul 27, 2021)

Please be respectful. Do not hate somebody because they have a differing opinion. I'm amazed at the divide on this topic.


----------



## NbleSavage (Jul 27, 2021)

Joliver said:


> ...you're a leftist....you're just too lukewarm to demand my job and kids be taken from me..."


@Joliver  Serious question, Mate & hope it lands in the spirit intended. I'm not taking the piss in any way here, just that I've heard others express similar sentiment and hoping to better understand the perspective: Who do ye think is coming for yer job and kids, and to what end? If ye can be specific, more than just "leftists" or "liberals" it would help. Again, really wanting to better understand what yer seeing, not having you on in any way.


----------



## CJ (Jul 27, 2021)

Remember it's not the Flame Forum gentlemen, let's keep it respectful.


----------



## Joliver (Jul 27, 2021)

NbleSavage said:


> @Joliver  Serious question, Mate & hope it lands in the spirit intended. I'm not taking the piss in any way here, just that I've heard others express similar sentiment and hoping to better understand the perspective: Who do ye think is coming for yer job and kids, and to what end? If ye can be specific, more than just "leftists" or "liberals" it would help. Again, really wanting to better understand what yer seeing, not having you on in any way.


They came for it when I refused critical race theory training. The vaccine was another "highly recommend" item...but my state put in protections for it's constituents by passing a law that forbade a mandate. I'll probably have to jump shops or go back to contracting here shortly. 

My understanding is that the people that are under project management that have not completed the training will be notified upon the employee's completion and be given the option to leave the team if they're "uncomfortable."  This option comes at the end of training in an open format. Everyone knows who takes the training and everyone knows who stays on teams with "untrained leaders." Layers of guilt in that struggle session.

Here's the hilarious part: everyone who refused the training and left was asked to stay on as a contractor. Lol it's one big leftist virtue signal.  They don't really want me to leave...they just want me to lick the boot. 

Could be that tin foil hat I'm wearing. Who knows. 

I absolutely hate the left with every last fiber of my being. And as opposed to being respectful to them, I'll no longer engage In this sort of topic. 

And when they win, and they will, everyone will be holding their head in their hands and saying "what happened? We had the best of intentions"....just like south Africa. 

Go look at south Africa...for god sakes.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 27, 2021)

So I am later to this party but I will say this.
My mother in law had COVID she is in her 70’s had a slight cough and felt like she had the flu.. live with my father I. Law. 1 week before thanksgiving they both decided to get the antibody test before they came home because we were not convinced my mom had it cause she got thru it so easily. They both tested positive for antibodies and my father in law never showed one symptom. I had COVID I. January. I went to a dinner party at my moms house with her and my whole family. Sister nieces ect. The next day I was diagnosed with COVID. I just didn’t feel right so I got tested. Lost my taste and smell. Got thru it with a runny nose and just not feeling g well. I am 46. Not one person at that dinner part got it. My whole house was quarinted My wife is a teacher so 2 days before she went back to work she told her principal to be safe she was going to get tested. She was positive never had one symptom. We defied all COVID laws in my house ate slept roamed the house together. I would have had COVID sex but she drew the line in the sand on that one. My oldest daughter did get it . Runny nose and achey two three days my you youngest did not. My sister in law and nephew who live downstairs from us and we were all toghether until I got tested and confined never got it. Btw my mom and her boyfriend are in there seventies and he has rumatoide arthritis and lupis. He never got it and he has a compromised immune system. So my point to all this is this is just one family.. I know people lost family member spouses etc and my heart goes out to them and god bless all our dc nurses and first responders.. they are the brave ones. I belive this virus was made out to be so much more than it should have been. They had the death ticker I like to call it on the side of the tv. Ino matter what channel you put on just trying to keep us all in fear of the unknown. If they had a death ticket of all the people that died of canceRbesity/ smoke: diabetes and any other ddiseas that dies daily we would never eat smoke drink again… so to each there own. Wear a mask don’t. Vaccinate or don’t. What I don’t want is the powers that be to try and push there agenda and tell me how I live my life and what I feel is good for myself and my family.. as far as my family goes I truly belive that I have lifetime immunization to this virus. The cdc will never come out on the record and say this because there goes all the money these drug companies are making. Some of the biggest political doners are big pharma and tech.. a lot of people stand to loose a lot of money if people stop beliveing and I wonder how many politicians and big tech and people that work for big pharma have stock in it. Hmmmm.  And it’s not just this round. What about the annual vaccination that they are going to be pushing soon. They still have to make vaccines. If everyone started to look at the big picture and not be narrow mind and say it’s Democrat verse republican agrneda and see what is really happening here maybe they would think differently. Like is said this decision  should be the individual and not what is being pushed. If my kid has to wear a mask to go to shcoil fine. If my wife has to wear a mask and get tested weakly for her job fine. If I have to wear a mask for my job fine I will. If my oldest needs to wear a mask or go to college on line fine. Whatever we have to do as a family. I will quite my job before they mandate me and say vacs or job. It’s about taking a stand for what you belive. Let’s start seeing numbers of vaccinated people that are getting COVID. Just like the Congress men and women that got COVID and they were all vaccinated. Do you think for one minute if that could have been kept secret that it wouldn’t have.. it’s all bullshit. It driven by fear politics and money.. you need to get vacinated or else but they are letting people into are country and sending them all over the place without testing and some with COVID. I don’t have the number on that but I am sure your head will spin. At the end of the day you do you I will do me. Agree to disagree and let’s all just move on. This is just my two sense.
BTW I lost my taste and smell in the second week in January and still have not gotten it back and I k ow a handful of people I. My circle and freaking freaking circle that are in the same boat.. Thats a punishment in itself… 🤙


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## NbleSavage (Jul 27, 2021)

Joliver said:


> They came for it when I refused critical race theory training.


I work with my hands, Mate so our mandatory training is more of the OSHA variety but the blokes in the office go through the like of what ye mention I suspect. I genuinely hope yer job situation looks up for ye. Yer a forum brother in long standing here and I respect that along with yer decision to not engage in politics. Best luck to ye mate.


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 27, 2021)

Joli,

I think you're a smart guy, which is one reason I am surprised you're hating on vaccines so much and posting retracted studies to prove your point. I get it that you're angry you got called out on it.

If you want to call me names ("leftist") and lump me in with those other evil people you hate, it's ok I've been called worse. I can handle your labels.

I won't submit to internet bullying though when people are spreading mistruth about vaccines and masks because they're knee deep in conspiracy theories. I will always stand up for the truth.

I'm actually a reformed conspiracy theorist myself. Somewhere along the line I realized that sometimes (not often!) they're actually not out to get me.

I liked your article on the HCQ combination therapy btw, read the whole thing. I thought it was really interesting how they listed anabolic steroid users as a group more vulnerable to Covid 19. I had to do a double-take on that.

It's a start. I hope they do more studies that show its efficacy if this is true.

Carry on. I'm going to take a break because I do have a life outside of internet debating.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 27, 2021)




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## Badleroybrown (Jul 27, 2021)

CohibaRobusto…Carry on. I'm going to take a break because I do have a life outside of internet debating. 

LMFAO!!!!!!  I nearly choked  on my hostess cupcake oink 🐷 . I am going to have to use this on all my friend that live on FB and Insta.. 🤙🤙


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## German89 (Jul 27, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Joli,
> 
> I think you're a smart guy, which is one reason I am surprised you're hating on vaccines so much and posting retracted studies to prove your point. I get it that you're angry you got called out on it.
> 
> ...


 
"Sometimes people dont want to hear the truth because they dont want their illusions destoryed" Friedrich Nietzsche


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## Dungeon Dweller (Jul 27, 2021)

The truth is you can only force things like masks/lockdowns/etc on a population once per generation. It doesn't matter how necessary it is the government has "blown its load" on the subject. Political leaders know this very well, and may test the waters, but the resistance is already showing to be pretty staunch.


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## Iron1 (Jul 27, 2021)

Is it just me or does our community appear to shrink and become more tribalized any time one of these divisive threads comes up?


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## rawdeal (Jul 27, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> Is it just me or does our community appear to shrink and become more tribalized any time one of these divisive threads comes up?


It is not just you.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 27, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> Is it just me or does our community appear to shrink and become more tribalized any time one of these divisive threads comes up?


Will all due respect no one needs to participate in any discussions they find not to their liking.

It is a bodybuilding forum yes but it’s also a community I always try to be respectful even In times there is disagreement. As long as people stay civil and have debates I think it’s a good thing. There are plenty of things I changed my mind on by listening to opinions and facts and would never gotten there with out discussions.

It don’t matter to me if you vaccinate or not and it should not matter to anyone if I do or not I’m not gonna hate Cohiba because we disagree had a lot of good talks with him nor am I going to hold it against him he thinks different then me.

I have no idea why people get so upset about touchy subjects as long as there Is no assholes calling people names and being disrespectful should be fine.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 27, 2021)

Agreed to the fullest amount… 
It’s all about agreeing to disagree. I have a lot of friends in the real world outside the reality of the online world.. we disagree all the time. Say a fuck you and then have a laugh.. it dosnt matter to me if your a Republican a liberal or a demarcate or libertarian straight/gay. If everyone agrees on every issue all the time life would suck ass. Debate and disagreement is how we grow as people and society… this basically comes down to even I. A community were we all have 1 love of training bbing pLn eating to grow or to look good. To tan or not to tan?? Hmmm tan fat looks better then pale fat.. you choose. Laugh mofo’s I am trying to create humor  hear… anyway everyone has valid points. But if it’s not factual do not put them out there. Because then that someone is giving a scoop of shit and Calling is ice cream. And by the way I ha e conspiracy theorist in my family. My sister in law said she won’t get tested for 19 Beacause she heard they are putting nanopatticals of COVID on the swabs to get it into everyone so they would want to get the vaccine. WTF did you just say I said to her.. see we all have to deal with someone or another.. if I didn’t love her i would tell her she was a bleppen bleeped bleep.. 🤙🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪


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