# First Cycle Monster Extreme Lean



## ICEPICK (Jun 12, 2017)

So I'm looking for ways to fine tune this to perfection before running it. I want to be as percise as possible and not be using any excess or redundant amounts. So any small mg tuning from vets would be appreciated.

Test-C 775/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/
EQ 1030/450/450/450/450/450/450/350/350/350/250/250/250/150/150/
Deca 440/200/200/200/200/200/200/200/200/200
Tren-A 000/ 80/ 80/ 80/ 80/
Tren-E 00/000/000/000/000/660/300/300/300/300/450/450/500/500/550/550/550/550/
SD 20/ 20/ 20/ 20/ 20/ -----------------------------------------------------20/ 20/  20/ 20 / 
HGH5mcg/5/5/5----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
11-kt 2ml/2ml/----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

I have updated this and tunned it a bit more but can't upload the PDF. I am removing the last SD blast while on Tren, but havn't settled on a great replacement. Dbol will give too much bloat, Anadrol is in the lead but also very harsh
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Obviously not my first cycle just wanted to joke around since so many kids post this stuff. I had to color my text since it wasn't showing up


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## Maintenance Man (Jun 12, 2017)

I thot this was first cycle and shook my head. Nice joke lol. 

Cant really tell what is going on there in that cycle but it seems you have test, EQ, tren, HGH, SD or drol, and deca. What are you looking to get out of all this? What is your goal? Big as you can be?


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 12, 2017)

ICEPICK said:


> Obviously not my first cycle just wanted to joke around since so many kids post this stuff. I had to color my text since it wasn't showing up





Maintenance Man said:


> First cycle?? No, no, and no.



No no not his first cycle


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## Maintenance Man (Jun 12, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> No no not his first cycle



He got me at the end. I was hoping it was a joke.


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## BigSwolePump (Jun 12, 2017)

Kind of hard to read. It looks like you are pyramiding your dosages. Some up and some down. Why?


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## Jin (Jun 13, 2017)

What's the point of deca at 200mg/wk? Joint help?
Shouldnt you start the tren e at the same time as the ace so it kicks in when you stop pinning ace?

x2 what BSP said- front loading is fine but why titrate the eq down at the end of cycle?


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## ICEPICK (Jun 13, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> Kind of hard to read. It looks like you are pyramiding your dosages. Some up and some down. Why?



I tried to upload the spreadsheet then the PDF version no luck so there is no pyramiding not sure which compound you look at. This is actually a toned down and personal customized version of the 19 Norman running high nandro and tren ant same time. I'm a HUGE fan of minimum gear for max gains! pun intended

EQ at that doasage and decrease will maintain nearly same levels till week 19 and drop flat I caclutated the esters.

Tren A 80mg e2d is same as tren E 300mg/week but always run 2 weeks of A just in case the ride is too rough.

Deca at 200mg is very good amount for growth over 10 [12] weeks. not alone of course [ 300 test & 250 deca and I'm getting it] I might change to 250 but with Deca-Tren You have to have 1 dominant 19nor and tren will naturally have a sronger bind than deca unless you have a ratio 3:1 Deca-tren which is also great. At this length 5 months, the deca will have severe diminishing returns after week 12 

There is a crap ton of science for the ratio of EQ to Deca to Tren so the ratio is good but the numbers can change. And I like Test at 350 even when stacking 1 other and an oral 350 hits the spot. Of course I like 550 but sometimes less is more.

Tren is increased as other competitors are decreased this does 2 things. 1 allows other compounds to lay their foundation but not have to compete with tren constantly at the receptor[many don't realize that you can have wasted gear floating in your blood, not being able to bind to much and run their active life doing almost 0. 2 this also has a far far greater effect having  other compounds causing different eukaryotic signals and then then only given 2 with Test & Tren, Tren being dominant and at higher incremental introduction, what little desensitization some cells gone through they can't keep up with the increase. You have up 50% better results when a strong compound like Tren is sustained then raised last 6 weeks mg for mg. This is contrary to Test and other compounds where a sustained serum level is optimal.

SD is there cuz I love SD. other than that It has no exact perpose. sorry something is wrong with browser


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## ICEPICK (Jun 17, 2017)

Does anyone have a good suggestion for an oral to compliment Tren for my last month. I'm starting with SD but even though I love it, I don't want to body through hi tren and SD.


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## BigSwolePump (Jun 17, 2017)

The cycle looks complex and ineffective. It looks all over the place. Maybe I am reading it wrong. You are taking so many compounds. I dont see any reason to add anything to it. I would actually take some out.


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## knightmare999 (Jun 17, 2017)

Widehips started a thread on competing receptors not too long ago:

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/24346-Competing-for-receptors


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## joshtheman (Jun 19, 2017)

damn bruh looks like a hell of a cycle


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## ICEPICK (Jun 23, 2017)

Any good ideas for a great finisher? I'm looking for that DHT type drive to keep me pushing hard as I finish. Tren will ware me out after this long and I want that jolt. My guy has a few great PWO IM like: TNE/Dbol 70/50 or If I was insane SuperMax Tren; Tren-A 100mg/TrNE 50mg/ M-Tren 2mg


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 24, 2017)

Dbol and tren is a bad combo imo

Two choices 

Drol for a very full jacked scary look 

Or

Halo for a very dry veiny grainy look. If you are sub 10% go halo


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## widehips71 (Jun 24, 2017)

ICEPICK said:


> There is a crap ton of science for the ratio of EQ to Deca to Tren so the ratio is good but the numbers can change.



I would be interested in this science you speak of, please sir


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## widehips71 (Jun 24, 2017)

It looks like you're front loading?  To each his own but I personally think it's a waste of gear.  Also why not run some of the E with the Ace so that you're not waiting weeks for it to kick in after the Ace has cleared?  And you're only running the deca for 10 weeks?  Idk man.  This looks like a mess


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## ICEPICK (Jun 26, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> I would be interested in this science you speak of, please sir





widehips71 said:


> It looks like you're front loading?  To each his own but I personally think it's a waste of gear.  Also why not run some of the E with the Ace so that you're not waiting weeks for it to kick in after the Ace has cleared?  And you're only running the deca for 10 weeks?  Idk man.  This looks like a mess



If this cycle looks complex to you, I will be the guy to say this is nothing but slightly more exact than others might run but not complex at all.

What is ineffective? I'm at a loss with that comment...It's not like I'm mixing it's not like I'm mixing Trest with Clomid. I don't get what's so confusing.


BigSwolePump said:


> The cycle looks complex and ineffective. It looks all over the place. Maybe I am reading it wrong. You are taking so many compounds. I dont see any reason to add anything to it. I would actually take some out.


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## widehips71 (Jun 26, 2017)

You didn't actually address any of my questions


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## knightmare999 (Jun 26, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> You didn't actually address any of my questions


What you don't understand...  you, see, the funny thing about front-loading. 
Err...
Numbers.  
I hope that cleared it up for you.  What don't you understand?

As for the many studies showing the ratios mentioned, I would consider two academic studies "many," as I can't think of a lot of research papers on tren and humans.  That's the weird thing about scheduling classifications and research on humans.

Oh, sorry.  You weren't talking to me.


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## ICEPICK (Jun 28, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> I would be interested in this science you speak of, please sir



I'm sorry but I don't get paid to read you articles. You probably can pick 2 compounds and find a article from a true trainer explaining it



widehips71 said:


> It looks like you're front loading?  To each his own but I personally think it's a waste of gear.  Also why not run some of the E with the Ace so that you're not waiting weeks for it to kick in after the Ace has cleared?  And you're only running the deca for 10 weeks?  Idk man.  This looks like a mess





knightmare999 said:


> What you don't understand...  you, see, the funny thing about front-loading.
> Err...
> Numbers.
> I hope that cleared it up for you.  What don't you understand?
> ...



settle down. I didn't say their were STIDIES done these ratios derrrr. Everyone knows nobody wants to do studies on steroids because they will see that their only unsafe when abbused. If you want more info ask instead of whatever your doing

Weekly amount/7xHalf-life in days + regular inject amount = Frontload
JFYI as long as you have an ester attached to the compound it will stay in the body, so you'll never have wasted gear.


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## knightmare999 (Jun 28, 2017)

Thanks for the response


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## widehips71 (Jun 29, 2017)

Sorry? Don't be. You're a ****ing idiot. 1) Articles are not science. 2) Trainers are not scientists 3) You DID say there was a "crap ton of science for the ratio of". You clearly have no clue what science is since you only seem to be prepared to back up your purported claims with bodybuilding dot com articles. 4) Everyone knows nobody wants to do studies because they will see its unsafe?? I don't even know how to respond to this level of mental retardation.


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## knightmare999 (Jun 29, 2017)

There are studies done on steroids, btw.  Just those that are scheduled for medical purposes, though, and tren wasn't legal long enough for much research or ever classified for human use.
EQ and Deca can be used to stimulate bone marrow growth, red blood cells, bone density, etc.  Anything used for medical applications in humans, scheduled in the manner of deca and eq, typically has scientific research. 
The specific point in question was in regards to the claim that studies were done on ratios ("science" doesn't exist without academic research, so there should be research papers corresponding with any "science" claims) between tren (which doesn't happen), eq, and deca for, presumably, your purpose of usage (i.e., performance enhancement).


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## BigSwolePump (Jun 29, 2017)

ICEPICK said:


> If this cycle looks complex to you, I will be the guy to say this is nothing but slightly more exact than others might run but not complex at all.
> 
> What is ineffective? I'm at a loss with that comment...It's not like I'm mixing it's not like I'm mixing Trest with Clomid. I don't get what's so confusing.



Your frontloading, timing and use of several esters is complex.



> Tren-A 000/ 80/ 80/ 80/ 80/
> Tren-E 00/000/000/000/000/660/300/300/300/300/450/450/500/500/550/550/550/550/


You are using TrenA for 4 weeks then immediately following it with a frontloaded amount of TrenE for 13 weeks. The TrenA will be out of your system for a few weeks before the TrenE starts to take effect. Starting the TrenE at the same time as the TrenA without frontloading would make more sense. The increased sides alone from frontloading and changing your dosages so often is enough of a reason to not to it IMO.





> HGH5mcg/5/5/5-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


HGH for 3 weeks is completely pointless. It needs to be ran for several months to reap any noticeable benefit hence your plan is ineffective.


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## ICEPICK (Jul 9, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> Sorry? Don't be. You're a ****ing idiot. 1) Articles are not science. 2) Trainers are not scientists 3) You DID say there was a "crap ton of science for the ratio of". You clearly have no clue what science is since you only seem to be prepared to back up your purported claims with bodybuilding dot com articles. 4) Everyone knows nobody wants to do studies because they will see its unsafe?? I don't even know how to respond to this level of mental retardation.



sci·ence
ˈsīəns/
_noun_
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]


the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

And Published articles are science. Most scientific break-throughs are just published articles such as the theory of relativity by that fukking idiot Albert. As for your level of mental retardation you don't need to respond. Thanks for a response without a point.


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## ICEPICK (Jul 9, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> Your frontloading, timing and use of several esters is complex.
> I realize this is not just the run of the mill but all of my froantloads have been calculated to a T including the Tren changover. I know that having Tren E build up in my system is a more traditional route but if your esters are calculated this is a more persice way of doing it. Plus the reason for the tren a is to avoid a bad combination. I have not yet had awefull tren sides even at 750 [still too much] but i've had a few friends really wish they were on A instead of E for the 2.5 weeks plus a ruined cycle. So If I was running E and A it would defeat that point.
> 
> You are using TrenA for 4 weeks then immediately following it with a frontloaded amount of TrenE for 13 weeks. The TrenA will be out of your system for a few weeks before the TrenE starts to take effect. Starting the TrenE at the same time as the TrenA without frontloading would make more sense. The increased sides alone from frontloading and changing your dosages so often is enough of a reason to not to it IMO.
> ...


You can't really think I'm only taking GH for 3 weeks I'm on 5 mcg now

I realize that traditionally most ppl just pick the dose and stay with it but a more modern approach is to get full potential of every compound without dosing anymore than is benificial. We can all just jump on 4 gr of gear and get huge for a while but that will diminish the effectiveness of fallowing cycles. Just like every drug in the world what takes 1 gr to to do X now takes more to do X the second time.


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## widehips71 (Jul 9, 2017)

ICEPICK said:


> sci·ence
> ˈsīəns/
> _noun_
> [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
> ...



Yeah because Einstein published the theory of relatively in Playboy. 

You're too dense to understand the point.


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## ICEPICK (Jul 9, 2017)

knightmare999 said:


> There are studies done on steroids, btw.  Just those that are scheduled for medical purposes, though, and tren wasn't legal long enough for much research or ever classified for human use.
> EQ and Deca can be used to stimulate bone marrow growth, red blood cells, bone density, etc.  Anything used for medical applications in humans, scheduled in the manner of deca and eq, typically has scientific research.
> The specific point in question was in regards to the claim that studies were done on ratios ("science" doesn't exist without academic research, so there should be research papers corresponding with any "science" claims) between tren (which doesn't happen), eq, and deca for, presumably, your purpose of usage (i.e., performance enhancement).



There are studies done on Tren use in a lot of former solviet countries there is tons of psudo-studies done on steroids. I'm just saying that the amount of 2x blind, 5000 participant studies that are done for modern pharmaceuticals are not around. The STUDIES that were done on the ratios were actual logs that measured BF, muscle gain, cardio, protein synthesis, vitals on 2 BB that I know of. They were not published because they were done privatley by a "anti-aging" specialist. BTW there hasn't been an actual study published on EQ, Deca, in the us since the 70's. If you want to durive your info from a time when Quaaludes were prescribed to pregnant women and chain smoking had 0 health affects go ahead full steam.


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## ICEPICK (Jul 9, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> Yeah because Einstein published the theory of relatively in Playboy.
> 
> You're too dense to understand the point.



Try to explain it hot shot


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## ICEPICK (Jul 9, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> Yeah because Einstein published the theory of relatively in Playboy.
> 
> You're too dense to understand the point.


Why are you even arguing? either put forth information or get out of the way


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## BigSwolePump (Jul 9, 2017)

ICEPICK said:


> You can't really think I'm only taking GH for 3 weeks I'm on 5 mcg now
> 
> I realize that traditionally most ppl just pick the dose and stay with it but a more modern approach is to get full potential of every compound without dosing anymore than is benificial. We can all just jump on 4 gr of gear and get huge for a while but that will diminish the effectiveness of fallowing cycles. Just like every drug in the world what takes 1 gr to to do X now takes more to do X the second time.


I don't know what to think. I am reading your post that shows 3 weeks.

Now you are skipping over my points and talking about using several grams of gear. No one understands what you are saying because you are terrible at communicating and when asked for clarification, you start a completely new set of points.

Good Luck dude. You wont find help here.


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## knightmare999 (Jul 9, 2017)

ICEPICK said:


> There are studies done on Tren use in a lot of former solviet countries there is tons of psudo-studies done on steroids. I'm just saying that the amount of 2x blind, 5000 participant studies that are done for modern pharmaceuticals are not around. The STUDIES that were done on the ratios were actual logs that measured BF, muscle gain, cardio, protein synthesis, vitals on 2 BB that I know of. They were not published because they were done privatley by a "anti-aging" specialist. BTW there hasn't been an actual study published on EQ, Deca, in the us since the 70's. If you want to durive your info from a time when Quaaludes were prescribed to pregnant women and chain smoking had 0 health affects go ahead full steam.


But you have access to these unpublished studies?
Ok.

As for no studies on deca or eq since qualudes, blah blah blah, here's just one of many: 
"
1996 Jun;10(7):745-52.
Safety and efficacy of nandrolone decanoate for treatment of wasting in patients with HIV infection.
Gold J1, High HA, Li Y, Michelmore H, Bodsworth NJ, Finlayson R, Furner VL, Allen BJ, Oliver CJ.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate the safety and efficacy of the anabolic steroid, nandrolone...

"


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## ICEPICK (Jul 11, 2017)

I'm really glad we took the time to argue frontloading and ester timming when the question was what type of oral would be a good finisher with tren


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## BigSwolePump (Jul 11, 2017)

ICEPICK said:


> I'm really glad we took the time to argue frontloading and ester timming when the question was what type of oral would be a good finisher with tren


Guys tried to help. You avoided questions. Even now, you still don't get it. Run your awful cycle and figure it out on your own. It is obvious that nothing that is told to you is gonna sink in.


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## ICEPICK (Jul 20, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> Guys tried to help. You avoided questions. Even now, you still don't get it. Run your awful cycle and figure it out on your own. It is obvious that nothing that is told to you is gonna sink in.



Dude I'm not on here to argue; but other than negs or doubts on my experience I didn't get ANY REAL SUGGESTIONS. I don't know what I didn't explain that wouldn't take a hour of pasting articles and notes.

I see a lot more ppl running "crossover" stacks especially on long cycles. Even seeing it pop up on forums. I realize many ppl like to stick with what they know but, but I think it's an evolving science. Crossover is a term I caught on a forum where a guy is running

Test-C 250mg  all 24 weeks
Deca   600mg  all 24 weeks
Primo  600mg  week 1-16  900mg week 16-24
EQ      600mg  week 1-16  300mg week 16-24
Mast E 350mg  week 1-14  700mg week 14-24

And in this case his crossover is EQ to Mast where my main cross was Deca to Tren. He is also amping up Primo when it shines and combines with the peak of Mast.


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