# Pump



## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Just get dumber and dumber


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

No dipshit, mechanical tension is THE driver of growth.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)




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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Sarcoplasmic hyoertrophy does fuck all for muscle fibers.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Sarcoplasmic hyoertrophy does fuck all for muscle fibers.


Makes you look pretty swole for about 20 min post-workout though.


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Makes you look pretty swole for about 20 min post-workout though.


That’s about it. Retard thinks pump build muscle which is why it’s taken him 5 years to bench 200lbs


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

I once did an interview for a movie a ways back asked me about the pump I told them it's like Cumming then told them I'm cumming at home in the gym all that stuff


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

First he posts a study not knowing how to actually read it. Then he posts a t nation article, then a muscle and fitness article, now a bodybuilding.com article 😂 
Is this dumb mother fucker 16? Keep waiting for more plates more dates videos


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> First he posts a study not knowing how to actually read it. Then he posts a t nation article, then a muscle and fitness article, now a bodybuilding.com article 😂
> Is this dumb mother fucker 16? Keep waiting for more plates more dates videos


More plates dude is an insufferable cunt


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

I’ve always looked at “the pump” as a byproduct of training rather than the goal. 

You can get a tremendous pump doing sets of 100 bicep curls with 10 lb dumbbells, but you’re going to grow next to no muscle and your strength won’t improve.


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Go ask Jordan Peters or Dante Trudel if pump builds muscle.
You’re as big as the weight you can lift, and the amount of food and drugs you can utilize.


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I’ve always looked at “the pump” as a byproduct of training rather than the goal.
> 
> You can get a tremendous pump doing sets of 100 bicep curls with 10 lb dumbbells, but you’re going to grow next to no muscle and your strength won’t improve.


If pump built muscle we could all get massive using soup cans


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> If pump built muscle we could all get massive using soup cans


And fleshlights.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> And fleshlights.


Speak for yourself. My right forearm is huge.


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## GreenAmine (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Speak for yourself. My right forearm is huge.


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher thinks a difference in opinion is flat earth vs round earth


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Jesus Christ the writer of the article doesn’t  understand that acute hormonal response is fucking meaningless


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

The article even mentions bodybuilders who are big yet not strong….
Show me one big mother fucker who got there by not moving heavy weight. 
I saw candycrusher mention John Meadows in a post in the “debate” thread. Meadows moved some heavy fucking poundage’s.


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## TomJ (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> The article even mentions bodybuilders who are big yet not strong….
> Show me one big mother fucker who got there by not moving heavy weight.
> I saw candycrusher mention John Meadows in a post in the “debate” thread. Meadows moved some heavy fucking poundage’s.


For real, he was one of the original westside guys wasn't he? 

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

TomJ said:


> For real, he was one of the original westside guys wasn't he?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


Not one of the originals but he was one of the few bodybuilders they ever let train there. He was very good friends with Dave Tate


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> And fleshlights.


Bro my wife bought me a fleshlight that fucks you!! Used it once hated it. Starts to burn unless you use buckets of lube


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Here’s an interesting quote from the article though 
“research has shown that high-load, low-repetition training is more effective than low-load, high-repetition training in building muscle size (Brooks et al., 1996). “

It’s an older study they’re citing but it’s still interesting and points towards mechanical tension

Hell most of the article is talking about getting stronger. 

The shit about the pump is nonsense like “it’s 
a potent growth hormone stimulator” 😂 again acute hormonal responses are meaningless.


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

@Skullcrusher do you actually read the shit you post or do you just google stuff and hope what you click on supports your claim?


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Well this was another Skullcrusher failure. 
Maybe Skullcrusher actually refers to what caused him to have brain damage which led a learning disability


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Here’s an interesting quote from the article though
> “research has shown that high-load, low-repetition training is more effective than low-load, high-repetition training in building muscle size (Brooks et al., 1996). “
> 
> It’s an older study they’re citing but it’s still interesting and points towards mechanical tension
> ...


I usually come here and fuck off say dumb shit but I truly can't believe that we are actually here arguing the fact of what is truly necessary in order to gain size. I mean it's mind boggling this is a discussion. Weight lifting first ever story was about a man who walked w a cow as the cow grew and got heavy the man grew and got stronger.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Here’s an interesting quote from the article though
> “research has shown that high-load, low-repetition training is more effective than low-load, high-repetition training in building muscle size (Brooks et al., 1996). “
> 
> It’s an older study they’re citing but it’s still interesting and points towards mechanical tension
> ...


But bruh… can you even bench 200 lbs?

“Pump” is what all those little guys that bench with their feet up on the bench chase. They look exactly the same month after month. But “pump” hits the feelzzzz.


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

😂 here’s a real gem of retardism 

“Prolonged AAS (androgenic anabolic steroids) use can lead to receptor desensitization. This receptor fatigue inhibits the gains experienced from steroids. Several scientific studies exist that reveal training helps to renew these desensitized receptors. Known steroid expert Dharkam had this to say about training intensity and receptor stimulation:

"Since muscle contraction is one of the main up-regulators of androgen receptors, the harder your muscle contracts, the more androgen receptors you'll get."

What in the fuck?


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> 😂 here’s a real gem of retardism
> 
> “Prolonged AAS (androgenic anabolic steroids) use can lead to receptor desensitization. This receptor fatigue inhibits the gains experienced from steroids. Several scientific studies exist that reveal training helps to renew these desensitized receptors. Known steroid expert Dharkam had this to say about training intensity and receptor stimulation:
> 
> ...


Jesus, what sewer did you pull this turd from


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Jesus, what sewer did you pull this turd from


Ask @Skullcrusher 
It’s from the scientific journal of muscle and fitness peer reviewed by his ass and his learning disabilities


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jun 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> A couple of articles about the benefits of pump
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don’t suppose you’d even consider trying it the way @RiR0 has suggested? Ya know, humor him or for the sake of argument? Then SEE whether it works better than the way you have been doing it. Maybe you’ll learn something out of the experience. Rather than wasting your time trying to justify an old washed out method. 

Ego gets in the way of a lot, huh?


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## Dex (Jun 30, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> But bruh… can you even bench 200 lbs?
> 
> “Pump” is what all those little guys that bench with their feet up on the bench chase. They look exactly the same month after month. But “pump” hits the feelzzzz.


Hey, I love feeling the pump though. I have the most growth when I do...until an hour later when it is gone.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> The article even mentions bodybuilders who are big yet not strong….
> Show me one big mother fucker who got there by not moving heavy weight.
> I saw candycrusher mention John Meadows in a post in the “debate” thread. Meadows moved some heavy fucking poundage’s.


Meadows was strong as fuck and advocated using heavy weights.  The “pump” part of his training was intended to increase blood flow and recovery. 

Using him as an example of effective pump style training is disingenuous.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Meadows was strong as fuck and advocated using heavy weights.  The “pump” part of his training was intended to increase blood flow and recovery.
> 
> Using him as an example of effective pump style training is disingenuous.


He co-wrote “The Unity Program” with Dave Tate.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I usually come here and fuck off say dumb shit but I truly can't believe that we are actually here arguing the fact of what is truly necessary in order to gain size. I mean it's mind boggling this is a discussion. Weight lifting first ever story was about a man who walked w a cow as the cow grew and got heavy the man grew and got stronger.


Literally progressive overload in its most basic form.


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## TomJ (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Meadows was strong as fuck and advocated using heavy weights. The “pump” part of his training was intended to increase blood flow and recovery.
> 
> Using him as an example of effective pump style training is disingenuous.


All anyone needs to do is watch any of his old training videos of his or his clients. He makes those fuckers WORK. 

I remember the leg day he did with jujimufu years ago. I tried that shit the next week and couldnt even finish, even with far less intensity, and I was crippled, like completely hobbled for days.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

@Skullcrusher I have nothing against you personally but dude, you need to just take the L on this one.


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

Look,

Pump is a _decent_ heuristic measure of muscle stimulation and _might_ drive a small amount of growth under _very_ specific circumstances, but to say that it should be even the secondary focus of a training program is silly and unscientific.

As everybody else has said, progressive overload is, was, and always will be the key to growth.


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Look,
> 
> Pump is a _decent_ heuristic measure of muscle stimulation and _might_ drive a small amount of growth under _very_ specific circumstances, but to say that it should be even the secondary focus of a training program is silly and unscientific.
> 
> As everybody else has said, progressive overload is, was, and always will be the key to growth.


It's just blood. Sigh. It's just blood


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> It's just blood. Sigh. It's just blood


Yes but so are boners 🤔


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Yes but so are boners 🤔


Pfffttt how would I know. Stopped getting them years ago 😔😔


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Yes but so are boners 🤔


So…. Every time I get a boner I grow? Cause “pump”? Good god. I finally have hope!!!


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So…. Every time I get a boner I grow? Cause “pump”? Good god. I finally have hope!!!


Only if you complete your proteins with a carb


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## lifter6973 (Jun 30, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So…. Every time I get a boner I grow? Cause “pump”? Good god. I finally have hope!!!


Fake news. We would all have 20 foot dicks by now.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> Fake news. We would all have 20 foot dicks by now.


Cialis is suddenly the most anabolic substance known to man.


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Cialis is suddenly the most anabolic substance known to man.











						Tadalafil improves lean mass and endothelial function in nonobese men with mild ED/LUTS: in vivo and in vitro characterization - PubMed
					

Daily tadalafil improved lean mass content in non-obese men probably via enhanced insulin secretion, estradiol reduction, and improvement of endothelial function in vivo. The in vitro increased myogenin and androgen receptor protein expression in skeletal muscle cells suggests a translational...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Tadalafil improves lean mass and endothelial function in nonobese men with mild ED/LUTS: in vivo and in vitro characterization - PubMed
> 
> 
> Daily tadalafil improved lean mass content in non-obese men probably via enhanced insulin secretion, estradiol reduction, and improvement of endothelial function in vivo. The in vitro increased myogenin and androgen receptor protein expression in skeletal muscle cells suggests a translational...
> ...


There should be some contenders for masters Olympia in nursing homes across America


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So…. Every time I get a boner I grow? Cause “pump”? Good god. I finally have hope!!!


I can have boners 24/7 for the next 24 years and still have a baby dick


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## Joliver (Jun 30, 2022)

The pump is absolutely a factor in growth. Fucking bro science is too strong in some of you dudes. 😔













						The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie's disease - PubMed
					

vacuum therapy can improve or stabilize the curvature of PD, is safe to use in all stages of the disease, and might reduce the number of patients going on to surgery.




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## Send0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Joliver said:


> The pump is absolutely a factor in growth. Fucking bro science is too strong in some of you dudes. 😔
> 
> 
> View attachment 24069
> ...


But does it work on the levator ani?


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## Joliver (Jun 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> But does it work on the levator ani?



I don't know what elevator Annie told you...but the swedish made penis pump is mine, baby. But I'll take it...just to keep things moving along.


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## MetatronTurtle (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> The article even mentions bodybuilders who are big yet not strong….
> Show me one big mother fucker who got there by not moving heavy weight.
> I saw candycrusher mention John Meadows in a post in the “debate” thread. Meadows moved some heavy fucking poundage’s.


To add on this, people forget John used to train at Westside, lmao. That's how he became friends with Dave Tate.


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## MetatronTurtle (Jun 30, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> But bruh… can you even bench 200 lbs?
> 
> “Pump” is what all those little guys that bench with their feet up on the bench chase. They look exactly the same month after month. But “pump” hits the feelzzzz.


Aesthetics fags ruined bodybuilding.


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## Gibsonator (Jun 30, 2022)

Lmao at the comments here.
Skullcrusher has abandoned ship.
Bro, you should know better than to post a bb.com article up in here!!


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## DLTBB (Jun 30, 2022)

The pump is the most enjoyable part of training for me but I'm not going to overlook or neglect mechanical tension in favour of it if I'm trying to build muscle. 🤓


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## Gibsonator (Jun 30, 2022)

Not gonna lie, I didn't read that article. The pump has its place. We all want it always but it does have to take a backseat for more favorable training principles. But those days where you wanna just day fuck it, yet still get your ass in the gym to push that blood into your muscle for a nice pump... I'd day that's A OK


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## tonyfitness212 (Jun 30, 2022)

i have 2 N1 Education courses from Coach Kassem, if anyone need, DM me: (don't advertise here)


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## CJ (Jun 30, 2022)

tonyfitness212 said:


> i have 2 N1 Education courses from Coach Kassem, if anyone need, DM me: (don't advertise here)


Please see my edit to your post. 

If you want to advertise, go to the ADVERTISING forum. Prepare to be run through the gauntlet though. Bring tissues.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

tonyfitness212 said:


> i have 2 meaty cocks that I love to milk.


Weird flex but OK.


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## Skullcrusher (Jun 30, 2022)

A few key phrases from the 2 articles:

glucose uptake in muscle tissue
protein synthesis
growth hormone production

Yeah...none of that stuff will probably help build muscle!


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> A few key phrases from the 2 articles:
> 
> glucose uptake in muscle tissue
> protein synthesis
> ...


And how does the pump influence those processes?


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## silentlemon1011 (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> And how does the pump influence those processes?



I mean, increased glucose uptake is achieved by literally any use of muscles.

So theres that i guess.


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I mean, increased glucose uptake is achieved by literally any use of muscles.
> 
> So theres that i guess.


This 👌👌👌👌


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I mean, increased glucose uptake is achieved by literally any use of muscles.
> 
> So theres that i guess.


Shhhhhh let him answer for himself


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Jun 30, 2022)

When you take a Deload week you still hit the gym and get a pump, but your not stressing the muscles enough to achieve alot, if any, growth


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> A few key phrases from the 2 articles:
> 
> glucose uptake in muscle tissue
> protein synthesis
> ...


You really might the least knowledgeable person on this forum.
I’m convinced you suffer from a learning disability.


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## Human_Backhoe (Jun 30, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I mean, increased glucose uptake is achieved by literally any use of muscles.
> 
> So theres that i guess.



All I hear is more reasons to use slin. I will conveniently ignore the rest.


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> All I hear is more reasons to use slin. I will conveniently ignore the rest.


If insulin increases pumps and is also anabolic, then....


VOILA


pump=anabolic


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Proving those elite tags are meaningless with each and every post


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Proving those elite tags are meaningless with each and every post


I'm doing the lord's work here


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

By dipshits logic high fat meals should have every man on trt because theyve been shown to acutely lower testosterone


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> A few key phrases from the 2 articles:
> 
> glucose uptake in muscle tissue
> protein synthesis
> ...


Because none of that happens unless you do pump-chasing workouts…. Powerlifters clearly have no muscle mass.

Bro, you’re doubling your bet instead of just folding your 7 2.


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## lifter6973 (Jun 30, 2022)

If my counts are correct, @Skullcrusher has only made the initial post and 1 reply post.
Starting to wonder if he is just trying to get a rise out of people.


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> If my counts are correct, @Skullcrusher has only made the initial post and 1 reply post.
> Starting to wonder if he is just trying to get a rise out of people.


I envy your optimism


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> If my counts are correct, @Skullcrusher has only made the initial post and 1 reply post.
> Starting to wonder if he is just trying to get a rise out of people.


It certainly seems that way. That or he just found a stockpile of 1980s Muscle and Fitness magazines.


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> All I hear is more reasons to use slin. I will conveniently ignore the rest.


 I'll use slin if you do


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## TODAY (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I'll use slin if you do


But why go to that expense when you could get the same benefits from a sick pump


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## silentlemon1011 (Jun 30, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> All I hear is more reasons to use slin. I will conveniently ignore the rest.



Samesies


TODAY said:


> If insulin increases pumps and is also anabolic, then....
> 
> 
> VOILA
> ...



Clever girl

I see what you did there


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## Human_Backhoe (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I'll use slin if you do



Can we pump together?


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## silentlemon1011 (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> But why go to that expense when you could get the same benefits from a sick pump



Because more pump is better obviously.

Thats what Slin is for right?

Side note
Slin pumps are fucking dope tho
Increases my arm size by a solid inch... for a solid 25 minutes


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> But why go to that expense when you could get the same benefits from a sick pump


Because I don't actually want to move to grow man


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## Skullcrusher (Jun 30, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> If my counts are correct, @Skullcrusher has only made the initial post and 1 reply post.
> Starting to wonder if he is just trying to get a rise out of people.


No I'm just done arguing.


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## Joliver (Jun 30, 2022)

I'll just leave this here....


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> Can we pump together?


Yes as long as you finish on my back


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

Joliver said:


> I'll just leave this here....


Hahahahhahaha fuck joe buddeh


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## Badleroybrown (Jun 30, 2022)

For me and I think a lot of us..
I have always chased that pump in the gym..
But I have always trained as heavy as possible and still I train thru the pump..
For me it only last like someone said for about 20min while training. Then it’s gone.but I still pound the shit out of my muscles so I know I am growing..
*Everyone want the pump and I think alot of think this dictates if they are flgroeing or not.
They get a lump in there Bi’s and they stop. Instead of training thru it for a set or two more.
When I am on I can don1 see of bi curls and bam pump. Does that mean you stop because your muscle are going to grow.
No you train thru that until your Bi’s feel like they are going to explode while they are burning and it ets excruciating. Then you are growing.
This goes for every body part.
Just saying. 
But I am learning this from all you guys as I go.
Thought I had training down until I joined this forum and started reading and learning.
I guess you can treat a old dog mee tricks. *


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> No I'm just done arguing.


And you thought these articles were the conversation killer?


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## Joliver (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Hahahahhahaha fuck joe buddeh



Pum..pum..pump..pump...pump it up!!! ⛽🆙📈


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## RiR0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Hahahahhahaha fuck joe buddeh


Joe Budden has some really deep dark songs


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

TODAY said:


> But why go to that expense when you could get the same benefits from a sick pump


You just gave me a great idea. I’m going to submit a grant proposal to research “the pump” as a treatment for type II diabetes.


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## Human_Backhoe (Jun 30, 2022)

Weight Lifter Lee100 said:


> I took my first dose yesterday, I curl 75 lb barbell. normaly I can only get 15 reps, so I crushed it and let it desolve under my tounge watted 30 minutes, and started my arm exercise. I did 23 reps.  I grew a half inch this morning. I am normaly 16 1/2 inch arms this morning I am 17". I won't take any more dianabol until my next day off. Let you guys know how it goes on my second round of dianabol goes. incredibly strong stuff. I also grew in the chest,  I  grew a 1/2 inch, went from 50 1/2 inches to 51 inches.





silentlemon1011 said:


> Because more pump is better obviously.
> 
> Thats what Slin is for right?
> 
> ...




Why go through all that danger when you can just take dbaal


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Joe Budden has some really deep dark songs


He's alright I'm classic soul fan so I don't do much rap but slaughterhouse is a good group for sure


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## Send0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> It certainly seems that way. That or he just found a stockpile of 1980s Muscle and Fitness magazines.


One of my favorite things to look for at garage sales is old magazines of any kind. I usually don't buy any of them, but it's fun flipping through old pages of stuff.


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## Send0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> Can we pump together?


Only if I can pump 2 at one time 😚😳


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## silentlemon1011 (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> You just gave me a great idea. I’m going to submit a grant proposal to research “the pump” as a treatment for type II diabetes.



Im going to submit a grant proposal as well.
For, "Not being a bitch" as a treatment for being small.


Human_Backhoe said:


> Why go through all that danger when you can just take dbaal



575mg a day Dbaal
I hear it has Turkesterone thrown in
Derek from MPMD dot com told me its 10x more anabolic than MENT 


Send0 said:


> Only if I can pump 2 at one time 😚😳



Count me in you crazy bastard you


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Im going to submit a grant proposal as well.
> For, "Not being a bitch" as a treatment for being small.


Utter nonsense. Next you’ll be telling me that you build a big bench by benching heavy.  We all know that doing 135 for sets of 50 is how it’s done.

Please learn the basics before offering advice.

Small guys who do pump workouts are only small because their gear is bunk.  It has nothing to do with lifting like a little bitch.


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## Send0 (Jun 30, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Im going to submit a grant proposal as well.
> For, "Not being a bitch" as a treatment for being small.


I feel attacked. Acting like a bitch is my coping mechanism for being small 😢


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## Slabiathan (Jun 30, 2022)

I know I am a little late on this but, just look outside the sport of bodybuilding. There are massive Olympic lifters that really never shoot for pumps and throw around heavy weights for singles and doubles and they have thick and powerful builds, no pumps needed.


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## DEADlifter (Jun 30, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> Why go through all that danger when you can just take dbaal


I am taking notes here.  Are we supposed to use the suppository method that was outlined yesterday?

AND...  How many loads does one have to take to properly dissolve the dbaal?


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## Human_Backhoe (Jun 30, 2022)

DEADlifter said:


> I am taking notes here.  Are we supposed to use the suppository method that was outlined yesterday?
> 
> AND...  How many loads does one have to take to properly dissolve the dbaal?



This is science, being such I think it is individually to the "man". For the " dude" in the other thread.......at least 12.


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## GreenAmine (Jun 30, 2022)

There's no way someone is this stubborn and unwilling to listen. @Skullcrusher is trolling all of us harder than Intel. Here's the real skullcrusher... That 200 lb bench? Yeah, that was in EACH HAND:




Good one, Mr. Wheels, you really got us.


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## Test_subject (Jun 30, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> There's no way someone is this stubborn and unwilling to listen.


You vastly underestimate many people’s inability to admit when they’re clearly wrong.

Personally, when people who are bigger and stronger than me tell me that I’m wrong, I’m inclined to at least listen rather than stick my fingers in my ears and yell “La La La, I’m not listening!” but to each their own I suppose.

Being big and strong doesn’t necessarily mean that you know what you’re talking about, but you’re clearly doing something right that small guys aren’t.

Edit: grammarz fail


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## Butch_C (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> You vastly underestimate many people’s inability to admit when they’re clearly wrong.
> 
> Personally, when people who are bigger and stronger than me tell me that I’m wrong, I’m inclined to listen rather than stick my fingers in my ears and yell “La La La, I’m not listening!” but to each their own I suppose.


Yes, that is what adults do. Children dig their heels in and tell the adults how they know better. Mom/ Dad you're wrong things are different now then when you grew...Now people grow by getting the pump!


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## MisterSuperGod (Jun 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> No dipshit, mechanical tension is THE driver of growth.



If pump equaled growth no one would need to lift heavy. i can get an unbelievable pump with 50 lb bicep curls. i wish it were that easy.


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## GreenAmine (Jun 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> You vastly underestimate many people’s inability to admit when they’re clearly wrong.


Nah, that was just the setup for my post. I work in the science field, and egos are HUGE here. I don't know how many times I've argued against something (knowing that I'm correct - if I have any doubt, I don't argue, I ask questions until I'm certain of my stance, and then I argue) just for some arrogant jackass to pull rank and say, "nope, we are doing it this way!" And then I get to say, "I told you so" after that crashes and burns.

@Skullcrusher seems like a good guy, he's just stubborn and prone to tantrums (as evidenced by the shit post spree he unleashed upon @RiR0). To be fair, it's not easy to admit when we're wrong, but even that becomes easier with practice. Hopefully one day, for his own edification and improvement, he will listen and accept what everyone is telling him. Until then, he will be stuck with mediocre, slow gains.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jun 30, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> Nah, that was just the setup for my post. I work in the science field, and egos are HUGE here. I don't know how many times I've argued against something (knowing that I'm correct - if I have any doubt, I don't argue, I ask questions until I'm certain of my stance, and then I argue) just for some arrogant jackass to pull rank and say, "nope, we are doing it this way!" And then I get to say, "I told you so" after that crashes and burns.
> 
> @Skullcrusher seems like a good guy, he's just stubborn and prone to tantrums (as evidenced by the shit post spree he unleashed upon @RiR0). To be fair, it's not easy to admit when we're wrong, but even that becomes easier with practice. Hopefully one day, for his own edification and improvement, he will listen and accept what everyone is telling him. Until then, he will be stuck with mediocre, slow gains.


I like your optimism but reading this gives me a vivid picture of @Skullcrusher in a stringer tank reviewing the thread, lighting up another Marlboro, grabbing the 8 pound dumbells and banging out another set of 50 tricep kickbacks (cigarette in the corner of his mouth the entire time). Then slamming those pink dumbells back in the spinning vertical rack, flicking the ash on the cig and flexing his tris. He says “I don’t give a shit what ALLLLLL those guys say, this pump means growth”. Before repeating that same picture for 9 more sets.


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I like your optimism but reading this gives me a vivid picture of @Skullcrusher in a stringer tank reviewing the thread, lighting up another Marlboro, grabbing the 8 pound dumbells and banging out another set of 50 tricep kickbacks (cigarette in the corner of his mouth the entire time). Then slamming those pink dumbells back in the spinning vertical rack, flicking the ash on the cig and flexing his tris. He says “I don’t give a shit what ALLLLLL those guys say, this pump means growth”. Before repeating that same picture for 9 more sets.


I sometimes incline w my feet off the floor. I hope you haven't lost the little amount of respect to you had for me. I'm sorry


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I sometimes incline w my feet off the floor. I hope you haven't lost the little amount of respect to you had for me. I'm sorry


So you do it the way that makes you look like a birthing person with feet in stirrups? 

Yea, don’t worry, I didn’t lose anymore respect for you. 🤣


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So you do it the way that makes you look like a birthing person with feet in stirrups?
> 
> Yea, don’t worry, I didn’t lose anymore respect for you. 🤣


Well there is two pegs on bottom of my incline bench so not knees fo chest gay But gay non the less. I'm sorry it just ....it just feels right sometimes


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## Send0 (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Well there is two pegs on bottom of my incline bench so not knees fo chest gay But gay non the less. I'm sorry it just ....it just feels right sometimes


Sometimes the gay feels right. And if the gay is wrong, then I can also understand how you don't want to be right.

It's okay, we support everyone here at UGBB 😘


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## lifter6973 (Jun 30, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I sometimes incline w my feet off the floor. I hope you haven't lost the little amount of respect to you had for me. I'm sorry


my respect for you just went from 0 to negative 100..............


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## Achillesking (Jun 30, 2022)

I hate all of you guys I'm never coming back to ug ever 😭😭😭


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## Badleroybrown (Jun 30, 2022)

@Achillesking Custom
Incline Bench..


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## Skullcrusher (Jun 30, 2022)

I can be stubborn, it's true.

Just think it's sad that fighting for what you believe is truth is considered a tantrum.

I think that those who skip pump are the ones leaving gains on the table.

You guys are men, you use logic to figure shit out. So how does that protein you eat/drink make it to the place it can benefit muscles? Blood. Protein synthesis, glucose uptake. There is some blood with heavy lifts too just not quite as much.

I am open minded enough to try any workout based only on mechanical tension.

So far nobody has challenged me with one.

If someone wants to provide me with a workout for say chest and triceps, I will try it for however long.

If I am wrong I am not afraid to admit it and even apologize.


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## GreenAmine (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> fighting for what you believe is truth is considered a tantrum.


This description is not a tantrum; systematically shit posting ALL of someone's past posts, even those unrelated to the relevant topic, IS a tantrum.

Blood flows at around 3.5 MPH (5.5 KPH), give or take a few depending on whether it's arterial or venous. You don't need to purposefully pump blood where you think you need it.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> This description is not a tantrum; systematically shit posting ALL of someone's past posts, even those unrelated to the relevant topic, IS a tantrum.
> 
> Blood flows at around 3.5 MPH (5.5 KPH), give or take a few depending on whether it's arterial or venous. You don't need to purposefully pump blood where you think you need it.


But isn’t it the caplieris in your muscles that’s absorb the extra blood.
R there capillaries. I thought there was but I can be wrong.
I had a semi pro bb tell me that with biceps they can only hold so much blood and eventually they will”pop” and this is when you loose your pump.
Asking the question not
Making a statement.
Wondering if this has any legitimately


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## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> If someone wants to provide me with a workout for say chest and triceps, I will try it for however long.


There are programs/methods that have both heavy and lighter load training. Wendler's 531 BBB, Top Set Down Set training, and DUP from Mike Zourdos are several that come to mind instantly. (I'm a fan of Top Set Down Set myself. Here's a decent article describing it... https://www.andybaker.com/top-set-back-off-set-programming/)

All those above programs have varying rep ranges used, but even with the higher rep ranges which lend themselves to "the pump", progressive overload is still the overarching principle.

And progressive overload doesn't only mean more weight, although that's an easy metric to quantify. More reps and/or sets is another form of progressive overload. Better form is also progressive overload. Increased frequency is also progressive overload.


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## MisterSuperGod (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I can be stubborn, it's true.
> 
> Just think it's sad that fighting for what you believe is truth is considered a tantrum.
> 
> ...



Blood is flowing through them 24/7. If it didn't they would necrotize. Forcing more blood into the muscle temporarily isn't the difference maker.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> There are programs/methods that have both. Wendler's 531 BBB, Top Set Down Set training, and DUP from Mike Zourdos are several that come to mind instantly. (I'm a fan of Top Set Down Set myself. Here's a decent article describing it... https://www.andybaker.com/top-set-back-off-set-programming/)
> 
> All those above programs have varying rep ranges used, but even with the higher rep ranges which lend themselves to "the pump", progressive overload is still the overarching principle.
> 
> And progressive overload doesn't only mean more weight, although that's an easy metric to quantify. More reps and/or sets is another form of progressive overload. Better form is also progressive overload. Increased frequency is also progressive overload.


So by what you just said.. the pump does not make you grow but it is part of the growing process. Is it not.
I know that I can get on a flat bench. Bang out sets of 2 and add the weight as I go up to my max. Say it would take me 6 sets to max. Depending on my weight increases. 
Even at 2 reps per set my chest would be exploding by the time I was done. 

So today I trained shoulders only..
I started out with behind the neck press. I did 2 wu sets of 12 started 50lbs then 90. I did three more sets8,6,6 and ended at 230pounds.
My delts were fucking swollen.
So I got progressive overload and the pump in.
Will I not grow from this..
I am not challenging I am just trying to under stand.
@RiR0 chime the fuck in at any time please..
Not that it makes anything @CJ says anything less important.


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## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> So by what you just said.. the pump does not make you grow but it is part of the growing process. Is it not.


I don't think I said that at all. 🤔

I was just giving him examples of programs that blend heavy and lighter training.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> All those above programs have varying rep ranges used, but even with the higher rep ranges which lend themselves to "the pump", progressive overload is still the overarching principle.


Bro I read this and assumed that’s what you meant.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

What did I say that was different from this.


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## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> So by what you just said.. the pump does not make you grow but it is part of the growing process. Is it not.
> I know that I can get on a flat bench. Bang out sets of 2 and add the weight as I go up to my max. Say it would take me 6 sets to max. Depending on my weight increases.
> Even at 2 reps per set my chest would be exploding by the time I was done.
> 
> ...


But if you're asking my thoughts on the pump, I do not think it's a significant driver of hypertrophy. I believe an appropriate volume of adequate mechanical tension approaching failure is. What's that mean in English you ask? Train fukkin hard, in laymen's terms. 

I believe "the pump" is just a byproduct of the metabolites caused by training. Does it provide ANY stimulus for growth independently? I have no idea. But Occlusion Training is often done for short periods of time on injured individuals with some success, and from my understanding, there's a tremendous pump. But again, is it the pump, or the training driving adaptation?


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> But if you're asking my thoughts on the pump, I do not think it's a significant driver of hypertrophy. I believe an appropriate volume of adequate mechanical tension approaching failure is. What's that mean in English you ask? Train fukkin hard, in laymen's terms.
> 
> I believe "the pump" is just a byproduct of the metabolites caused by training. Does it provide ANY stimulus for growth independently? I have no idea. But Occlusion Training is often done for short periods of time on injured individuals with some success, and from my understanding, there's a tremendous pump. But again, is it the pump, or the training driving adaptation?


Thank You for breaking it down in lay terms for me…
I am going to start training hard now…
Hopefully I will grow. 😂🤙💊💉💪


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## GreenAmine (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> But isn’t it the caplieris in your muscles that’s absorb the extra blood.
> R there capillaries. I thought there was but I can be wrong.
> I had a semi pro bb tell me that with biceps they can only hold so much blood and eventually they will”pop” and this is when you loose your pump.
> Asking the question not
> ...


Essentially, capillaries transport blood between arteries and veins. Capillaries are found in nearly all types of bodily tissues. The wall of a capillary is very thin - only 1 cell in thickness. This allows nutrients to easily diffuse from the blood in the capillary to the surrounding tissue (e.g., muscle).

I know that capillaries can rupture, but I'm not certain about the accuracy of your buddy's statement. It doesn't sound correct, but admittedly anatomy and physiology is not my area of expertise. Most of the pump is due to an increase in intracellular and extracellular fluid, not necessarily blood.


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## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> So today I trained shoulders only..
> I started out with behind the neck press. I did 2 wu sets of 12 started 50lbs then 90. I did three more sets8,6,6 and ended at 230pounds.
> My delts were fucking swollen.
> So I got progressive overload and the pump in.
> Will I not grow from this..


Yes, you will grow from this. Even if today's workout was subpar, if you keep adding weight/reps/sets to the workout, eventually you will hit the threshold for stimulus. Progressive overload.


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## silentlemon1011 (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> But if you're asking my thoughts on the pump, I do not think it's a significant driver of hypertrophy. I believe an appropriate volume of adequate mechanical tension approaching failure is. What's that mean in English you ask? Train fukkin hard, in laymen's terms.
> 
> I believe "the pump" is just a byproduct of the metabolites caused by training. Does it provide ANY stimulus for growth independently? I have no idea. But Occlusion Training is often done for short periods of time on injured individuals with some success, and from my understanding, there's a tremendous pump. But again, is it the pump, or the training driving adaptation?



I get a good pump during most training sessions

But the direct driver is Mechanical Tension at an RPE of 10.

My pumps come from drop sets
Good luck not getting a shoulder pump from 5 consecutive drop sets, all at an RPE10.

In my case, pumps are a byproduct of trying to hit RPE10 on consecutive drop sets

Although thr pump being a goal, doesnt make sense.

When im healthy and Powerlifting, i wont see a pump for weeks at a time, since training st 85%1RM is not conducive to a pump


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## silentlemon1011 (Jul 1, 2022)

MisterSuperGod said:


> Blood is flowing through them 24/7. If it didn't they would necrotize. Forcing more blood into the muscle temporarily isn't the difference maker.



I love you MSG

Even if you do revert to Captain obvious on occasion

It doesnt lessen my love


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> Yes, you will grow from this. Even if today's workout was subpar, if you keep adding weight/reps/sets to the workout, eventually you will hit the threshold for stimulus. Progressive overload.


I guess subpar will have to do..

I will strive to be a MassMonster like yourself everyday I hit the gym..
😂


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> Essentially, capillaries transport blood between arteries and veins. Capillaries are found in nearly all types of bodily tissues. The wall of a capillary is very thin - only 1 cell in thickness. This allows nutrients to easily diffuse from the blood in the capillary to the surrounding tissue (e.g., muscle).
> 
> I know that capillaries can rupture, but I'm not certain about the accuracy of your buddy's statement. It doesn't sound correct, but admittedly anatomy and physiology is not my area of expertise. Most of the pump is due to an increase in intracellular and extracellular fluid, not necessarily blood.


This is why I asked. There is a lot of bro science that needs to get weeded out and where better place to ask the questions..


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## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I get a good pump during most training sessions
> 
> But the direct driver is Mechanical Tension at an RPE of 10.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'd never train with the goal of chasing the pump. But when it happens, it's a good indicator that you were hitting what you were trying to hit.

Quad pumps are the fukkin worst though. Get of the hack, feels like your skin is going to split open like an overripe tomatoe. Still hasn't gone away by the time your next set comes, you're uncertain if you'll even get a single rep, yet you power through 10+ before collapsing. Good times!!!


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## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> I guess subpar will have to do..
> 
> I will strive to be a MassMonster like yourself everyday I hit the gym..
> 😂


I don't think you took what I said the way I meant it.

I meant in general, NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY, if someone started out too light, as long as they added each workout they'd eventually get to where they needed to be.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> I don't think you took what I said the way I meant it.
> 
> I meant in general, NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY, if someone started out too light, as long as they added each workout they'd eventually get to where they needed to be.


Too late .. I read this and I went ape shit.
Thru my diet down the drain for the day and I am sitting with a half gallon of cookie dough ice scream watching fried green tomatoes and planning my next assault on the weights.. 
Thanks.


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## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Too late .. I read this and I went ape shit.
> Thru my diet down the drain for the day and I am sitting with a half gallon of cookie dough ice scream watching fried green tomatoes and planning my next assault on the weights..
> Thanks.


Share some of that creamy treat? 🤗


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)




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## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

7 fucking pages I cant take it any more ,,, some one has to do it  God damn it ,, so I'll be the one .


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)

Yano said:


> 7 fucking pages I cant take it any more ,,, some one has to do it  God damn it ,, so I'll be the one .


*BRAVO MY FREIND..
BRAVO!!!

*


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## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Too late .. I read this and I went ape shit.
> Thru my diet down the drain for the day and I am sitting with a half gallon of cookie dough ice scream watching fried green tomatoes and planning my next assault on the weights..
> Thanks.


Damn it! No!!!!!


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## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Here’s the thing pump like others have said is a byproduct of resistance training. It’s not necessary though. It’s a side effect. Otherwise we could all take anadrol and insulin and just use 5lb dbs and get huge as long as we were eating enough. 
Mechanical tension forces the adaptation.
You don’t have to train to failure but you do have to get close. 
I just tell everyone to go to failure, not because I think everyone will or even has the ability to but it ensures that they get effective reps in. 
I can look back on workouts even now and realize I missed failure on some sets even though I felt like I did at the time but I added weights or reps or had more control. So it was still effective. 
I’ve had sets where I felt like I only 1 or 2 reps or hell even none left but I got 5-7 more. 
Most of my training over the last 20 years has had nothing to do with pump work. I don’t care and have never cared about focusing on the pump. 
I had a while of me lifting where I focused on as heavy as possible. I’d regularly do 1-5 reps very low volume. Hitting muscles 1x a week for about 1 set.
Guess what? I grew. 
My workouts looked like this 
Monday-push
Bench-1x3 or incline bench 
Ohp-1x3
Dips 1x3

Wednesday- pull
Deadlift 1x3 or bent row 1x3
Lat pulldown 1x3
Curl 1x3

Friday legs 
Squats 1x3
Rdl 1x3 or good morning 1x3

Each week I’d add weight until I got 5 reps then I’d max out and take a week or 2 off and repeat. 
I grew quickly. 

What was my driver for growth? 
Was it the pump? The volume? 
Nope it was mechanical tension. It was boring old progressive overload. About as basic as you can get.
I challenge anybody who’s not beat up like a lot of us are to do this and tell me you didn’t grow quicker than doing some hypertrophy pump based volume workout as long as you’re eating correctly. 


Now if you do an exercise properly for you and the muscle gets pumped it’s a good indicator that you’re hitting the muscle, you’re hydrated and you’ve gotten enough food in you. 
I’ve had days after working in the hot sun that I went into the gym and beat the log book but my pumps were nearly nonexistent. Now did these workouts not contribute to growth because of I didn’t get a pump? 
Sorry for the rant I’m tired


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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 1, 2022)

Not sure if it's been mentioned but I'm going to play Devil's Advocate on the pump possibly being anabolic. If you're swimming in anabolics, insulin/GH, glucose/aminos, then _maybe_ I can see it helping eke out some extra gains. But that's icing on the cake compared to the primary driver of tension/resultant damage remolding. And maybe, by proxy, the pump being indicative of flushing to help bring in nutrients and remove waste for recovery. There is some merit to the pump a la BFR training. But also keep in mind BFR was designed for actually injured people to recover and rehab, not healthy athletes trying to maximize growth.

Observe the pump and fluff aesthetics monkeys looking the same year after year. _Maybe_ pump and fluff can add gains, but that'd be the last 5% or whatever ON TOP OF the actual heavy work. Heavy work is the primary driver and pump work can be an addendum to that, but you can't do solely pump work and expect gains. And as for Skullcrusher mentioning transient HGH like it's meaningful, notice how pretty much everyone says HGH needs to be ran for at least 6 months to notice anything. And that's with substantial exogenous dosing. Not transient pump work for maybe a few hours a day, lol.


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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 1, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> You just gave me a great idea. I’m going to submit a grant proposal to research “the pump” as a treatment for type II diabetes.


Not quite the same thing but I found a study on strongmen and it noted that for them (and referenced another, similar study done on football players) that despite being fat as shit and overweight, they had good blood glucose levels. So muscle mass/exercise helps manage insulin despite being fat as shit, ergo, pump away the beetus! 🤔


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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 1, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I like your optimism but reading this gives me a vivid picture of @Skullcrusher in a stringer tank reviewing the thread, lighting up another Marlboro, grabbing the 8 pound dumbells and banging out another set of 50 tricep kickbacks (cigarette in the corner of his mouth the entire time). Then slamming those pink dumbells back in the spinning vertical rack, flicking the ash on the cig and flexing his tris. He says “I don’t give a shit what ALLLLLL those guys say, this pump means growth”. Before repeating that same picture for 9 more sets.


Hey, don't knock the Marlboro. Nicotine/tobacco has been shown to raise test!


----------



## MetatronTurtle (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> There are programs/methods that have both heavy and lighter load training. Wendler's 531 BBB, Top Set Down Set training, and DUP from Mike Zourdos are several that come to mind instantly. (I'm a fan of Top Set Down Set myself. Here's a decent article describing it... https://www.andybaker.com/top-set-back-off-set-programming/)
> 
> All those above programs have varying rep ranges used, but even with the higher rep ranges which lend themselves to "the pump", progressive overload is still the overarching principle.
> 
> And progressive overload doesn't only mean more weight, although that's an easy metric to quantify. More reps and/or sets is another form of progressive overload. Better form is also progressive overload. Increased frequency is also progressive overload.


And Wendler even says repeatedly, the supplemental (e.g. BBB/FSL/etc.) are not the main driver. The main focus is driving up your PR sets. Which, hmmmm, means getting stronger over time and not just chasing the pump.


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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I can be stubborn, it's true.
> 
> Just think it's sad that fighting for what you believe is truth is considered a tantrum.
> 
> ...


As someone else pointed out, blood is constantly circulating throughout your whole body. Else it'd need to be amputated because it's _dead_. That said, just because blood is circulating into our muscles a la the pump does not inherently mean there is going to be _uptake_, or downstream of that, enough damage/recovery response to drive growth. You're looking at one tree in the forest and assuming that singular tree composes the whole forest. Not remotely true. It is only one piece of the puzzle, and a relatively small one at that, and not the primary driver. If pump work was the be all, end all, why are the pros doing their "pump" work with 4pl8 benches and rows instead of just sticking to GVT with slow negatives and low weight and avoid the strain and injury risk at high weights? Simple- because it's not effective and they're forced by how human physiology works to go heavy for more.


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> There are programs/methods that have both heavy and lighter load training. Wendler's 531 BBB, Top Set Down Set training, and DUP from Mike Zourdos are several that come to mind instantly. (I'm a fan of Top Set Down Set myself. Here's a decent article describing it... https://www.andybaker.com/top-set-back-off-set-programming/)
> 
> All those above programs have varying rep ranges used, but even with the higher rep ranges which lend themselves to "the pump", progressive overload is still the overarching principle.
> 
> And progressive overload doesn't only mean more weight, although that's an easy metric to quantify. More reps and/or sets is another form of progressive overload. Better form is also progressive overload. Increased frequency is also progressive overload.


That looks like a lot of pump though on the back off sets! 

On the other hand, just because it's higher reps does not mean you have to go light.

As a matter of fact one of the articles I posted mentioned how a pump set for Arnold would be considered heavy for a lot of lifters.

It is possible to end up with both at the same time. The best feeling I ever got with my biceps was as heavy as I could go for as many reps as possible. If I could not hit at least 10 reps I would stick with that weight until I could reach 10 reps before adding more weight. When I am not trying to fix an injury I pretty much always do that regardless of rep range. To me that's progressive overload, pushing it to the limit.

I consider mechanical tension for bodybuilders more so in the 5 to 8 rep range for main compound lifts. Fewer reps than that is more so powerlifting...to me at least.

When I go "light" on a lift I am still using my PR weights to calculate what I should lift for a certain rep range. It doesn't feel light at all. If I attempt to go for too many reps it can end up a failed set. But failure feels pretty good when you took it as far as you can go.


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 1, 2022)

MetatronTurtle said:


> As someone else pointed out, blood is constantly circulating throughout your whole body. Else it'd need to be amputated because it's _dead_. That said, just because blood is circulating into our muscles a la the pump does not inherently mean there is going to be _uptake_, or downstream of that, enough damage/recovery response to drive growth. You're looking at one tree in the forest and assuming that singular tree composes the whole forest. Not remotely true. It is only one piece of the puzzle, and a relatively small one at that, and not the primary driver. If pump work was the be all, end all, why are the pros doing their "pump" work with 4pl8 benches and rows instead of just sticking to GVT with slow negatives and low weight and avoid the strain and injury risk at high weights? Simple- because it's not effective and they're forced by how human physiology works to go heavy for more.


I never said that pump is the primary driver or be all end all. Every workout should include mechanical tension in the main compound lift at he very least. It is only one piece of the puzzle or one weapon in the arsenal.

If pump does not have any benefit then why do bodybuilders use Cialis? To become a walking hard on...well okay maybe that too!


----------



## Butch_C (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I never said that pump is the primary driver or be all end all. Every workout should include mechanical tension in the main compound lift at he very least. It is only one piece of the puzzle or one weapon in the arsenal.
> 
> If pump does not have any benefit then why do bodybuilders use Cialis? To become a walking hard on...well okay maybe that too!


Cialis is a vasodilator, it relaxes the blood vessels allowing better blood flow which will carry more oxygen and nutrients to the muscles, it will also lower blood pressure. As you exercise, the oxygen that reaches your muscles converts available glucose into ATP, providing your body with the energy it needs to complete your workout. lactic acid is formed when the muscle cells don’t have enough oxygen to use their other energy sources. Lactic acid is what causes the "Burn" ,some people lack the fortitude to push through the burn and assume they have hit failure. Lactic acid is lactate and a hydrogen ion, once lactic acid is released into the blood stream the hydrogen ion splits off (Lactic acid is the joining of lactate with a hydrogen ion). It’s the hydrogen ion in the lactic acid that contributes to the burning sensation in the muscles during exercise, not the lactate. Lactate helps us out by getting recycled back into our system to provide energy for our muscles. So the better the blood flow the more oxygen can reach the muscle helping to prevent lactic acid buildup by both allowing the muscle cells to use their energy sources as well as removing lactic acid  and releasing lactate to be used once again as energy. 
    It has been a long time since i took the ISSA classes so I may be off a little, but that is how I remember it. So in my opinion Cialis is used for blood flow for increased performance more so than pump in the case of bodybuilding.


----------



## TODAY (Jul 1, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> Cialis is a vasodilator, it relaxes the blood vessels allowing better blood flow which will carry more oxygen and nutrients to the muscles, it will also lower blood pressure. As you exercise, the oxygen that reaches your muscles converts available glucose into ATP, providing your body with the energy it needs to complete your workout. lactic acid is formed when the muscle cells don’t have enough oxygen to use their other energy sources. Lactic acid is what causes the "Burn" ,some people lack the fortitude to push through the burn and assume they have hit failure. Lactic acid is lactate and a hydrogen ion, once lactic acid is released into the blood stream the hydrogen ion splits off (Lactic acid is the joining of lactate with a hydrogen ion). It’s the hydrogen ion in the lactic acid that contributes to the burning sensation in the muscles during exercise, not the lactate. Lactate helps us out by getting recycled back into our system to provide energy for our muscles. So the better the blood flow the more oxygen can reach the muscle helping to prevent lactic acid buildup by both allowing the muscle cells to use their energy sources as well as removing lactic acid  and releasing lactate to be used once again as energy.
> It has been a long time since i took the ISSA classes so I may be off a little, but that is how I remember it. So in my opinion Cialis is used for blood flow for increased performance more so than pump in the case of bodybuilding.


There's also a _chance_ that PDE-5 inhibition itself could be very slightly anabolic, independent of the vasodilation.


----------



## Butch_C (Jul 1, 2022)

TODAY said:


> There's also a _chance_ that PDE-5 inhibition itself could be very slightly anabolic, independent of the vasodilation.


I did read somewhere that PDE-5 inh can slightly increase testosterone which would make it anabolic. But I believe the article also stated that Testosterone therapy made PD5 inhibitors more effective as well. So maybe they are better together?


----------



## TODAY (Jul 1, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> I did read somewhere that PDE-5 inh can slightly increase testosterone which would make it anabolic. But I believe the article also stated that Testosterone therapy made PD5 inhibitors more effective as well. So maybe they are better together?


As I understand it, the phosphodiesterase system isn't particularly well-mapped or understood. PDE inhibition probably effects a lot of shit that we simply haven't identified yet.


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> That looks like a lot of pump though on the back off sets!
> 
> On the other hand, just because it's higher reps does not mean you have to go light.
> 
> ...


This is looks like a lot of fluff and pump work?

Chest

Bench Press 4-8,  8-12
Incline Press 8-12,  12-15
Cable Fly 12-15 x (1 set w/ rest-pause)
Quads

Squats 4-8,  8-12
Leg Press 8-12,  12-20
Leg Ext 12-20 (1 set w/ rest-pause)
Back

Deadlift or Rack Pulls 4-8, 8-12
Seated Cable Rows 8-12,  12-15
Lat Pulldowns 12-20 (1 set with rest-pause)

You consider mechanical tension? 
What is mechanical tension? 

As far as you going to failure I’d wager you don’t have the ability or skill to reach true failure.


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I never said that pump is the primary driver or be all end all. Every workout should include mechanical tension in the main compound lift at he very least. It is only one piece of the puzzle or one weapon in the arsenal.
> 
> If pump does not have any benefit then why do bodybuilders use Cialis? To become a walking hard on...well okay maybe that too!


Again, what is mechanical tension? 

The driver of growth IS mechanical tension. 
But what is it Candycrusher? 

Stop saying what you like or “what works for you”
You don’t know what works it’s taken you 5 years to bench 200lbs.


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

I'm a dumb mother fucker so this won't sound too fancy. This is what I'm sure of cus I did it for years.

If your max on lets use bench is 200lbs - pick the number of working sets you want , 4 , 5 , 6 , 8 , over 9000 I don't care. Ok now count backwards by 5lbs  that many sets ... lets use 6x6 sets n reps ... thats -30 lbs off your PR of 200 ... so your opener is 170 , and off you go.

Once you can complete 170 for 6 [cus 6x6 is our example for sets n reps] , you move up 5 lbs and so on until you cant , then you amrap whats left , if its 3 reps , fine , 1 ,, great.

Once you can get every  bump up in weight including your previous PR for 6 reps , your opener moves up 5lbs and the whole ride starts over.

This will get you stronger and bigger.

Why ? ,,, Fucked if I know !! ,, I just know it works haahaahah Like I said I ain't so fancy.

 I dont know shit about mechanical tension or how to stimulate some magical unicorn shit that shoots rainbows and marshmallows up my ass so I can just grow by some kind of fucked up brony osmosis ...

I just know shit like this works , and the newer and younger a lifter is , the better it works.

*heads back to the bong and rocking chair .... God damn kids all over my grass at this hour of the morning .... outta be in school damn it !!


----------



## Test_subject (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> On the other hand, just because it's higher reps does not mean you have to go light.


It does, though.  Let’s see you do 15 reps with 85% of your 1RM.

Good luck!


----------



## Test_subject (Jul 1, 2022)

Yano said:


> I'm a dumb mother fucker so this won't sound too fancy. This is what I'm sure of cus I did it for years.
> 
> If your max on lets use bench is 200lbs - pick the number of working sets you want , 4 , 5 , 6 , 8 , over 9000 I don't care. Ok now count backwards by 5lbs  that many sets ... lets use 6x6 sets n reps ... thats -30 lbs off your PR of 200 ... so your opener is 170 , and off you go.
> 
> ...


Your bong math checks out Yano.


----------



## MetatronTurtle (Jul 1, 2022)

Yano said:


> I'm a dumb mother fucker so this won't sound too fancy. This is what I'm sure of cus I did it for years.
> 
> If your max on lets use bench is 200lbs - pick the number of working sets you want , 4 , 5 , 6 , 8 , over 9000 I don't care. Ok now count backwards by 5lbs  that many sets ... lets use 6x6 sets n reps ... thats -30 lbs off your PR of 200 ... so your opener is 170 , and off you go.
> 
> ...


Pretty much JM Blakley's system for bench, minus the heavy singles in the front.


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

MetatronTurtle said:


> Pretty much JM Blakley's system for bench, minus the heavy singles in the front.


Exactly what it is Sir , good eye !


----------



## MetatronTurtle (Jul 1, 2022)

Yano said:


> Exactly what it is Sir , good eye !


I was listening to the Table Talk really recently and was considering giving it a spin when 531 gets stale.


----------



## Test_subject (Jul 1, 2022)

Yano said:


> I'm a dumb mother fucker so this won't sound too fancy. This is what I'm sure of cus I did it for years.
> 
> If your max on lets use bench is 200lbs - pick the number of working sets you want , 4 , 5 , 6 , 8 , over 9000 I don't care. Ok now count backwards by 5lbs  that many sets ... lets use 6x6 sets n reps ... thats -30 lbs off your PR of 200 ... so your opener is 170 , and off you go.
> 
> ...


I use a system like this for my straight sets but more tailored to bodybuilding than PL:

- Pick a rep range appropriate to the exercise.  Let’s stick with bench, so I like to use 6-10

- start with a weight that’s about an RPE 9 at 6 reps for the first set

- try to add at least one rep to at least one of the sets every session

- once you can hit 10 reps on all sets, bump the weight up to your new RPE9 at 6 reps

Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I use a system like this for my straight sets but more tailored to bodybuilding than PL:
> 
> - Pick a rep range appropriate to the exercise.  Let’s stick with bench, so I like to use 6-10
> 
> ...


Hell yeah man thats nice


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Jul 1, 2022)

MetatronTurtle said:


> Pretty much JM Blakley's system for bench, minus the heavy singles in the front.





Yano said:


> Exactly what it is Sir , good eye !



Banded JM presses for all
Yano style

So we can all accidentally crush our fucking wind pipes by miscalculating an RPE10

Fucking savage


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Banded JM presses for all
> Yano style
> 
> So we can all accidentally crush our fucking wind pipes by miscalculating an RPE10
> ...


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Yano said:


>


Made me think of this one


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Made me think of this one


aw hell yeah


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Jul 1, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Made me think of this one



We dont smoke Marijuana in muskogee!!!!!!!


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I never said that pump is the primary driver or be all end all. Every workout should include mechanical tension in the main compound lift at he very least. It is only one piece of the puzzle or one weapon in the arsenal.
> 
> If pump does not have any benefit then why do bodybuilders use Cialis? To become a walking hard on...well okay maybe that too!


They use cialis to help with blood pressure. Simple. That’s what cialis was originally developed as. It wasn’t until clinical trials that they realized there was another… um, side effect. Bonerzzzz


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

Time to turn this party around ...


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> They use cialis to help with blood pressure. Simple. That’s what cialis was originally developed as. It wasn’t until clinical trials that they realized there was another… um, side effect. Bonerzzzz


But what about Creakic hardcore? Jay Cutler said he used Creakic hardcore. I mean if Jay Cutler used Creakic hardcore then it has to do something. It came in the Jay Cutler stack with a poster and everything


----------



## Signsin1 (Jul 1, 2022)

Yano said:


> Time to turn this party around ...


Yano, my Dad played that 8-track and this cassette1000s of times while I was growing up


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

Signsin1 said:


> Yano, my Dad played that 8-track and this cassette1000s of times while I was growing up
> View attachment 24149


Fuck yeh man i know it well


----------



## CJ (Jul 1, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I use a system like this for my straight sets but more tailored to bodybuilding than PL:
> 
> - Pick a rep range appropriate to the exercise.  Let’s stick with bench, so I like to use 6-10
> 
> ...


That's my plan for my Top Set lifts


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Signsin1 said:


> Yano, my Dad played that 8-track and this cassette1000s of times while I was growing up
> View attachment 24149


Fucking A man. My grandmother did the samething.
I still remember running around with her portable red 8 track player the size a of vcr with a black strap on it. 
She loved her some Conway Twitty.
My dad used to sing Meryl to her and make her cry 😂


----------



## Signsin1 (Jul 1, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Fucking A man. My grandmother did the samething.
> I still remember running around with her portable red 8 track player the size a of vcr with a black strap on it.
> She loved her some Conway Twitty.
> My dad used to sing Meryl to her and make her cry 😂


lol Thats awesome!

As a family we would go camping on the weekends and my Dad would play the same Merle tapes over and over and over..lol..I started to get sick of it as a kid.. Now Im happy to have grew up with it and love to listen to it


----------



## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)




----------



## TODAY (Jul 1, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I use a system like this for my straight sets but more tailored to bodybuilding than PL:
> 
> - Pick a rep range appropriate to the exercise.  Let’s stick with bench, so I like to use 6-10
> 
> ...


I use this progression, as well.

It's very straightforward and boring but it has served me well for years and years.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Jul 1, 2022)

Signsin1 said:


> Yano, my Dad played that 8-track and this cassette1000s of times while I was growing up
> View attachment 24149



This is now the good country thread.

Cant stand modwrn country.

Give me some Conway, Haggard, Jones, Waylon, Hank.. as new as im willing to do is Brooks and Dunn


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Fucking A man. My grandmother did the samething.
> I still remember running around with her portable red 8 track player the size a of vcr with a black strap on it.
> She loved her some Conway Twitty.
> My dad used to sing Meryl to her and make her cry 😂


Ol man would get into the wild Turkey and want to hear this or that ...  I cant tell ya how many times ive sang some of these songs.


----------



## Butch_C (Jul 1, 2022)

There are a few newer country songs


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> This is now the good country thread.
> 
> Cant stand modwrn country.
> 
> Give me some Conway, Haggard, Jones, Waylon, Hank.. as new as im willing to do is Brooks and Dunn


I like some of the new country rap believe it or not some of that just makes me laugh. An some of it aint too bad.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Jul 1, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> There are a few newer country songs





Yano said:


> I like some of the new country rap believe it or not some of that just makes me laugh. An some of it aint too bad.



Dont get me wrong
I listen a lot of different stuff
I go from rap, to OG country, to Mongolian or Nordic throat metal during a single commute to work

Ill give both of thise a listen

Its just listen to things like Luke Bryan or Florida Georgia line and i want to pumch myself straight in the dick


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

This kid ,, Billy Strings ,, man , this kid is one of THEE most bad ass Geetar pickers you're ever gonna hear.


----------



## Butch_C (Jul 1, 2022)




----------



## Butch_C (Jul 1, 2022)

More mainstream country but still good.


----------



## Human_Backhoe (Jul 1, 2022)




----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> More mainstream country but still good.


This kids got a good voice first time i heard of him was with Upchurch


----------



## Yano (Jul 1, 2022)




----------



## Badleroybrown (Jul 1, 2022)




----------



## Skullcrusher (Jul 1, 2022)

Muscles need oxygen in order to grow.

Blood supplies that oxygen.

Hope that is simple enough to understand.


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Muscles need oxygen in order to grow.
> 
> Blood supplies that oxygen.
> 
> Hope that is simple enough to understand.


The irony that you of all people would post a reference to idiocracy.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Muscles need oxygen in order to grow.
> 
> Blood supplies that oxygen.
> 
> Hope that is simple enough to understand.


You may want to start pumping on that wittle brain muscle of yours. It seems to need some oxygen.


----------



## Achillesking (Jul 1, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> @Achillesking Custom
> Incline Bench..
> View attachment 24106


Lol I just seen this 🤣🤣


----------



## The Phoenix (Jul 1, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Bro my wife bought me a fleshlight that fucks you!! Used it once hated it. Starts to burn unless you use buckets of lube



Really? Watch out for them roidsz; uh-hmm, hemorrhoids…LOL 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## The Phoenix (Jul 1, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Samesies
> 
> 
> Clever girl
> ...



Are you saying that @TODAY is female. I always thought she was a du-?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 1, 2022)




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## Achillesking (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


>


Well the model in the video convinced me. I'm wrong. I'll be focusing on the pump


----------



## Skullcrusher (Jul 1, 2022)

So more protein is just fine and dandy.

More blood flow for protein synthesis?

Oh no...we can't have that!

...and oxygen?

Muscle contraction uses ATP. 

The more ATP your muscles use, the more needs to be created. 

ATP formation requires oxygen for the electron transport chain.

Make it a happy muscle!


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


>


You’re just so fucking dumb


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> So more protein is just fine and dandy.
> 
> More blood flow for protein synthesis?
> 
> ...


You’re one of those people who reads shit and vomits it back up with an actual understanding of anything, which is why you’ve got a 200lb bench press that took 5 years and you tout progress


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


>


That dude is swole AF!!! 

Imma start going for the ridiculous pumpzz give me the pinky dumbbells!


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> That dude is swole AF!!!
> 
> Imma start going for the ridiculous pumpzz give me the pinky dumbbells!


He’s bigger than Candycrusher


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

You know what triggers protein synthesis? Resistance training and protein consumption


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 1, 2022)

Leucine is more important than a fucking pump you skinny fat weak gimp


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> So more protein is just fine and dandy.
> 
> More blood flow for protein synthesis?
> 
> ...


You know what else synthesizes protein? Roids. But you can jab 1.5 g of roids in your body BUT without proper training that protein synthesis isn’t gonna do fuck all. 

You’re gradually inching your argument around to @RiR0 side. Then you’ll be able to save face after 10 pages of bullshit.


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## Send0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> So more protein is just fine and dandy.
> 
> More blood flow for protein synthesis?
> 
> ...


Stupid question here. Provided that we aren't holding our breath long enough to make our blood hypoxic, then don't we always have a constant supply of oxygen going to the muscle?

Second question, what is the process or mechanism that forces the muscle to require more oxygen and to make use of that oxygen, and how do we measure whether we've increased oxygen intake to an adequate level?

Last question, is this increase in oxygen beneficial outside of a workout?

Please don't react to this with a shit emoji. These are real questions and not a set up.


----------



## Yano (Jul 2, 2022)

Wait wait wait ,, hold up ,,, if we need all this blood and oxygen for muscles to grow , some one explain Occlusion training to me ,, and why that works ?


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Yano said:


> Wait wait wait ,, hold up ,,, if we need all this blood and oxygen for muscles to grow , some one explain Occlusion training to me ,, and why that works ?


Excellent point. His previous pubmed article that he posted in support of his argument mentioned that “blood flow restriction training was beneficial for hypertrophy…” 

@Skullcrusher, which is it? I’m confused and since you are clearly the expert on this I await your answer.


----------



## Send0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Yano said:


> Wait wait wait ,, hold up ,,, if we need all this blood and oxygen for muscles to grow , some one explain Occlusion training to me ,, and why that works ?





BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Excellent point. His previous pubmed article that he posted in support of his argument mentioned that “blood flow restriction training was beneficial for hypertrophy…”
> 
> @Skullcrusher, which is it? I’m confused and since you are clearly the expert on this I await your answer.


Well I was going to give an answer to occlusion training and the use cases where it's mostly used, and why... but I'll just STFU and let the big boys talk instead. 😐


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Well I was going to give an answer to occlusion training and the use cases where it's mostly used, and why... but I'll just STFU and let the big boys talk instead. 😐


I was going to reply with an actual human study about bfr training but I want Skully to respond. I have my thoughts on it but I’ll wait


----------



## Yano (Jul 2, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Well I was going to give an answer to occlusion training and the use cases where it's mostly used, and why... but I'll just STFU and let the big boys talk instead. 😐


Yeah im actually curious that wasn't a wise ass comment or me being a smug douche ,, im honestly curious why it works if we need all that to and fro with the flow.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Well I was going to give an answer to occlusion training and the use cases where it's mostly used, and why... but I'll just STFU and let the big boys talk instead. 😐


I don’t know shit about that. My fatass nearly passes out after hard sets so it never occurred to me to restrict blood and oxygen flow. I would absolutely die.


----------



## Yano (Jul 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I don’t know shit about that. My fatass nearly passes out after hard sets so it never occurred to me to restrict blood and oxygen flow. I would absolutely die.


Yeah last thing i need while i'm laying on the basement floor thanking God for cold concrete is a fucking tourniquet tied off some where on my body like a freakin junkie in an alley.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Yano said:


> Yeah last thing i need while i'm laying on the basement floor thanking God for cold concrete is a fucking tourniquet tied off some where on my body like a freakin junkie in an alley.


Although under the right circumstances…. 
I don’t mind being choked to the brink of unconsciousness. Can we discuss the science supporting that rather than this bullshit “pump” nonsense?


----------



## Koonj (Jul 2, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I use a system like this for my straight sets but more tailored to bodybuilding than PL:
> 
> - Pick a rep range appropriate to the exercise.  Let’s stick with bench, so I like to use 6-10
> 
> ...


How many sets?


----------



## Achillesking (Jul 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I don’t know shit about that. My fatass nearly passes out after hard sets so it never occurred to me to restrict blood and oxygen flow. I would absolutely die.


I turn red tying my shoe


----------



## Achillesking (Jul 2, 2022)

Yano said:


> Yeah im actually curious that wasn't a wise ass comment or me being a smug douche ,, im honestly curious why it works if we need all that to and fro with the flow.


Yiur always a smug douche so it's hard to tell the difference 😘


----------



## Achillesking (Jul 2, 2022)

I'm still in actually total fuckin awe that this is being debated. Like seriously really blows my fuckin mind. Then someone chimes in w some fancy Fuckin talk about the synthesis of chromosome 37 triggers a pump...no it's blood.


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I'm still in actually total fuckin awe that this is being debated. Like seriously really blows my fuckin mind. Then someone chimes in w some fancy Fuckin talk about the synthesis of chromosome 37 triggers a pump...no it's blood.


It’s literally like someone arguing that side effects are what makes a medication work.


----------



## Valdosta (Jul 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> you can jab 1.5 g of roids in your body BUT without proper training that protein synthesis isn’t gonna do fuck all.


We'll see about that !


🖕


----------



## Achillesking (Jul 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> It’s literally like someone arguing that side effects are what makes a medication work.


I mean seriously literally blows my fuckin balls right off when I read this. It's like when you break down 2+2 to your kid and tell them it's 4 100 times then you ask them and they answer 9


----------



## Achillesking (Jul 2, 2022)

Valdosta said:


> We'll see about that !
> 
> 
> 🖕


Lol well played


----------



## Yano (Jul 2, 2022)

Valdosta said:


> We'll see about that !
> 
> 
> 🖕


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Jul 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I was going to reply with an actual human study about bfr training but I want Skully to respond. I have my thoughts on it but I’ll wait





BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Excellent point. His previous pubmed article that he posted in support of his argument mentioned that “blood flow restriction training was beneficial for hypertrophy…”
> 
> @Skullcrusher, which is it? I’m confused and since you are clearly the expert on this I await your answer.





Send0 said:


> Well I was going to give an answer to occlusion training and the use cases where it's mostly used, and why... but I'll just STFU and let the big boys talk instead. 😐





Yano said:


> Yeah im actually curious that wasn't a wise ass comment or me being a smug douche ,, im honestly curious why it works if we need all that to and fro with the flow.



Ive seen a lot of this training on YouTube
So im pretty much a proffesional

I will elaborate

I watched a video where a guy tied a band around his arm (jujimufu)

And he said he felt like he got a ridiculous pump

Ergo

Pump = Gains

I thought you guys were smart


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Valdosta said:


> We'll see about that !
> 
> 
> 🖕


Are you gonna train “the pump”? Or train hard to failure?

Spoiler alert: only retards train the pump.


----------



## Test_subject (Jul 2, 2022)

Koonj said:


> How many sets?


Doesn’t really matter. If you go above three sets I’d just change the initial set to an RPE8 so you don’t crap out on the last sets.

I usually just do three. You don’t really need many sets doing it that way because the second and third set are going to be near max or max effort.


----------



## Valdosta (Jul 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Are you gonna train “the pump”? Or train hard to failure?
> 
> Spoiler alert: only retards train the pump.


im willing to sacrifice my blast and train the pump to prove skullcrusher wrong


----------



## GreenAmine (Jul 2, 2022)

I'm fairly certain, at this point, @Skullcrusher is trolling (not that he wasn't before, but he *definitely* is now). Notice how he pops in like a muppet every few hours, drops little antagonizing tidbits, and then steps back to enjoy the ensuing frenzy.


----------



## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> I'm fairly certain, at this point, @Skullcrusher is trolling (not that he wasn't before, but he *definitely* is now). Notice how he pops in like a muppet every few hours, drops little antagonizing tidbits, and then steps back to enjoy the ensuing frenzy.


If it was almost anyone else I’d agree. He’s genuinely too stupid to pull that off


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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> It’s literally like someone arguing that side effects are what makes a medication work.


But my tren is bunk without a FEELZ REPORT...


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## Tisatix (Jul 2, 2022)

I think the main thing a pump does is allows one to feel if they’re hitting the targeted muscle optimally which would be ideal for hypertrophy. I can get an intense pump with heavy weight.


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## Koonj (Jul 2, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Doesn’t really matter. If you go above three sets I’d just change the initial set to an RPE8 so you don’t crap out on the last sets.
> 
> I usually just do three. You don’t really need many sets doing it that way because the second and third set are going to be near max or max effort.


Okay. This is pretty much what I’ve been doing, I just wanted to verify. Thank you.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 2, 2022)

*So I think there is a good way to handle this.
Everyone is shooting all this knowledge of who knows what and how fucking dumb people
Are.
Yes it is true some people’s minds will never change,
Other people will just argue a fact over and over to just argue…
Let’s post some pics.
Proof is in the pudding..
Can’t be shooting shit off back and forth without seeing results…
I want to take a dive from someone that looks like they out the work in.
You don’t have to be a mass monster but you Should
Look like you put the work in…
Or else this thread is dead and has been for about 7 pages… it’s just non productive shit going back and forth..
**Remember no one’s perfect.**
Show us your work from most recent pic. 
These are from the last 2 weeks floating. This am floating at exactly 250. *
https://u.cubeupload.com/mrbash/BBFD6F05A78540799507.jpeg
https://u.cubeupload.com/mrbash/CE0F9EA298D24A2F9BFC.jpeg
https://u.cubeupload.com/mrbash/766A83C6ADBF4278A26F.jpeg
https://u.cubeupload.com/mrbash/B3F1AE3754394C61B4AB.jpeg


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 2, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Stupid question here. Provided that we aren't holding our breath long enough to make our blood hypoxic, then don't we always have a constant supply of oxygen going to the muscle?
> 
> Second question, what is the process or mechanism that forces the muscle to require more oxygen and to make use of that oxygen, and how do we measure whether we've increased oxygen intake to an adequate level?
> 
> ...


Never hold your breath.

Say you do a mechanical tension set like bench press for example. Every contraction of the muscle uses ATP. Say you deplete that ATP doing bench presses. That would mean your pecs feel fatigued. You do a pump...maybe some dumbbells...replenishes the ATP, rinses out any lactic acid build and restores energy.

Doesn't have to be the primary driver of growth to be useful.


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 2, 2022)

Yano said:


> Wait wait wait ,, hold up ,,, if we need all this blood and oxygen for muscles to grow , some one explain Occlusion training to me ,, and why that works ?


Funny you should ask because I almost quoted it.

It's when the blood comes rushing back in that most of the beneficial shit happens.


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 2, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Well I was going to give an answer to occlusion training and the use cases where it's mostly used, and why... but I'll just STFU and let the big boys talk instead. 😐


Your opinion counts just as much as any.

There are no big boys.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Never hold your breath.
> 
> Say you do a mechanical tension set like bench press for example. Every contraction of the muscle uses ATP. Say you deplete that ATP doing bench presses. That would mean your pecs feel fatigued. You do a pump...maybe some dumbbells...replenishes the ATP, rinses out any lactic acid build and restores energy.
> 
> Doesn't have to be the primary driver of growth to be useful.


Slooooooowly circling the argument around to save face. 

The narrative will change to “I never said the pump was the best way to build muscle”.


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Funny you should ask because I almost quoted it.
> 
> It's when the blood comes rushing back in that most of the beneficial shit happens.


😂 here’s the truth it’s not shown to be beneficial at all for healthy individuals trying to build muscle. It’s only benefit is in a rehab situation.


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Your opinion counts just as much as any.
> 
> There are no big boys.


There’s a couple here you’re just not one


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Never hold your breath.
> 
> Say you do a mechanical tension set like bench press for example. Every contraction of the muscle uses ATP. Say you deplete that ATP doing bench presses. That would mean your pecs feel fatigued. You do a pump...maybe some dumbbells...replenishes the ATP, rinses out any lactic acid build and restores energy.
> 
> Doesn't have to be the primary driver of growth to be useful.


😂 what is a mechanical tension set? What is mechanical tension?


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 2, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> *So I think there is a good way to handle this.
> Everyone is shooting all this knowledge of who knows what and how fucking dumb people
> Are.
> Yes it is true some people’s minds will never change,
> ...


Good arms.

I will be the first to admit that RiR0, retard or whatever the fuck his name has has a better build than me. Copycat everything he says and does will get you the same results? Maybe...go for it.

If you want to base everything off of that be my guest. Some guys are older. Some guys were not blessed with good genetics. Doesn't make what they have learned along the way any less valid.

At my age, starting again at 47, smoker, ex-alcoholic and drug addict in the most piss poor shape you can possibly imagine...the progress I have made is nothing short of miraculous. If you saw before and after pics you might agree. I do not have the pics to prove it.

Pics are too incriminating anyway, tattoos, scars, etc.

But I cannot take all the credit. There are lots of guys here that helped me with a lot of things along the way. Even CJ has helped me with quite a bit. Do I let the fact that he is not huge determine how much I value his info. No fucking way. His tips have proved to be true in almost every case. He's more cut than me...fucking awesome!


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

You know some things that  replenish ATP? Creatine and 3-5 minute rest between work sets.


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Good arms.
> 
> I will be the first to admit that RiR0, retard or whatever the fuck his name has has a better build than me. Copycat everything he says and does will get you the same results? Maybe...go for it.
> 
> ...


Retard? Goddamn candycrusher, have you read your responses? You think 5 years and 150lbs added to a bench equating to 200lbs is nothing short of miraculous? 
Answer the questions that have been asked.


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Stupid question here. Provided that we aren't holding our breath long enough to make our blood hypoxic, then don't we always have a constant supply of oxygen going to the muscle?
> 
> Second question, what is the process or mechanism that forces the muscle to require more oxygen and to make use of that oxygen, and how do we measure whether we've increased oxygen intake to an adequate level?
> 
> ...


Skullcrusher answer these questions


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## TODAY (Jul 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Skullcrusher answer these questions


nooooooooo this parade of autism grows tiresome


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Does the glycogen lactic acid system need oxygen to make atp?


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Would doing junk volume pump sets like what you described not deplete ATP? 
What the fuck are you on about?


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 2, 2022)

I think it's funny that I even have to try to defend pump.

Something that feels good, increases oxygen, ATP, mitochondria, protein synthesis, glucose uptake.

You want to focus on only mechanical tension because it's the primary driver of growth? Go for it. Leave anything else beneficial out of the picture. Me, I need everything I can use to get where I want to be.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Good arms.
> 
> I will be the first to admit that RiR0, retard or whatever the fuck his name has has a better build than me. Copycat everything he says and does will get you the same results? Maybe...go for it.
> 
> ...


I’m giving you a giant virtual pat on the back. You were able to stop making bad decisions and started making better ones. 

It’s not a miracle though. 

There are a ton of us that have done the same exact thing. 

Your giant ego is blocking you from seeing that guys are trying to help you do better. 50 isn’t that fucking old so quit using it as an excuse. I’m 47 and bench heavy. Squat heavy. And deadlift heavy. Age doesn’t mean anything. Injuries don’t mean shit. Nobody wants to hear excuses, that’s just your brain trying to justify poor results. 

The results don’t have to be poor if you only listened.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I think it's funny that I even have to try to defend pump.
> 
> Something that feels good, increases oxygen, ATP, mitochondria, protein synthesis, glucose uptake.
> 
> You want to focus on only mechanical tension because it's the primary driver of growth? Go for it. Leave anything else beneficial out of the picture. Me, I need everything I can use to get where I want to be.


More “victimhood speak”. 

Forget it. I’m out. You think a 200 lb bench is a “miracle”. I don’t relate to you in any way shape or form. 

Did you list “lost my balls” as one of your excuses? You should.


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 2, 2022)

Notice how retard keeps shit posting everything I say even though I have him on ignore and stopped giving a fuck what he says or does?

Who's the REAL tantrum thrower here? Constant WTF and shit post no matter what I say. Ask me if I give a fuck! RiR0 is like the CNN of bodybuilding. You believe what you see but it's fake news.


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## RiR0 (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I think it's funny that I even have to try to defend pump.
> 
> Something that feels good, increases oxygen, ATP, mitochondria, protein synthesis, glucose uptake.
> 
> You want to focus on only mechanical tension because it's the primary driver of growth? Go for it. Leave anything else beneficial out of the picture. Me, I need everything I can use to get where I want to be.


Your defending your retard stance for pump claiming it is a driver for growth. 
It happens as a possible side effect of resistance training. It shouldn’t be a focus.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Your defending your retard stance for pump claiming it is a driver for growth.
> It happens as a possible side effect of resistance training. It shouldn’t be a focus.


Let the little old bitch go. You have this thread you can post everytime that ass-backwards retard tries to post advice. No need to go any further. His reputation was self-immolated on page 1.


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## Test_subject (Jul 2, 2022)

I’m honestly at a loss for words. This thread is a perfect example of someone having an ego that outstrips their knowledge level by several exponents. 

Dunning-Kruger in full effect.


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## TODAY (Jul 2, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I’m honestly at a loss for words. This thread is a perfect example of someone having an ego that outstrips their knowledge level by several exponents.
> 
> Dunning-Kruger in full effect.


Humanity is worth saving.


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## Test_subject (Jul 2, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Humanity is worth saving.


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## GreenAmine (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> replenishes the ATP, rinses out any lactic acid


You clearly have no basic understanding of simple biology. Please stop spreading misinformation. I sincerely hope that no one believes anything you say that's related to science.

I'm done here. You don't listen.


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## Test_subject (Jul 2, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> You want to focus on only mechanical tension because it's the primary driver of growth? Go for it. Leave anything else beneficial out of the picture. Me, I need everything I can use to get where I want to be.


How does focusing on tertiary growth-drivers contribute to better results than concentrating on the primary driver of growth?  That makes no sense.

You’re making it seem like you’re taking a holistic approach that’s giving superior results when what you’re actually doing is neglecting the thing that will give you results and concentrating on things that have little to no proven impact. 

Have you ever noticed that the people telling you that you’re going about it wrong are all bigger and stronger than you?


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> How does focusing on tertiary growth-drivers contribute to better results than concentrating on the primary driver of growth?  That makes no sense.
> 
> You’re making it seem like you’re taking a holistic approach that’s giving superior results when what you’re actually doing is neglecting the thing that will give you results and concentrating on things that have little to no proven impact.
> 
> Have you ever noticed that the people telling you that you’re going about it wrong are all bigger and stronger than you?


Yea but you don’t understand. He’s been thru “stuff”. Life is harder for him.


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## Test_subject (Jul 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea but you don’t understand. He’s been thru “stuff”. Life is harder for him.


Ah yes, I forgot that basic principles of biology change because “stuff.”

I don’t care how this guy trains — he can do Jazzercise for all I care — but don’t speak like you know what’s up when you clearly don’t.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 2, 2022)

I found a new way to get a pump…
Is it weird if i look at myself on the mirror when I use it.


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 2, 2022)

Btw I can only fill it a inch or so.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Btw I can only fill it a inch or so.


I was gonna say. Why do they make it 5 inches bigger than it ever needs to be. I guess they call that “hope”.


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## Test_subject (Jul 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I was gonna say. Why do they make it 5 inches bigger than it ever needs to be. I guess they call that “hope”.


Leaving room for all of those sick sarcoplasmic gains.


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## Achillesking (Jul 2, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Leaving room for all of those sick sarcoplasmic gains.


As real as ectoplasmic gains


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## The Phoenix (Jul 3, 2022)

Cardboard People Gas Pump Life Size Cardboard Cutout Standup https://a.co/d/1cl7lz9


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 3, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I was gonna say. Why do they make it 5 inches bigger than it ever needs to be. I guess they call that “hope”.


Well that’s why when you use it you gotta make sure you are looking at yourself in the mirror.
That way you know you are hitting the muscle the right way.


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## shackleford (Jul 3, 2022)

is this correct pump techique?


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/maybemaybemaybe/comments/vq25e7


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## Badleroybrown (Jul 3, 2022)

_I would have had the same expression. _


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## Human_Backhoe (Oct 14, 2022)

tonyfitness212 said:


> i have 2 N1 Education courses from Coach Kassem, if anyone need, DM me: (don't advertise here)



Fuck off


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## MisterSuperGod (Oct 14, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> Fuck off



He had 3 in 1 education in the chat box. He's losing education rapidly! PM the fucking guy before he hits zero.

Reverse that. Old post. He's gained 1 education. Wait a couple months and get in when he has 5 in 1.


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