# Where to begin



## Confused Rob (Jul 27, 2022)

Hi All,

So yeah, first real post here. Trying to unravel this all. Apologies for the length of the post. I am struggling and don't really have the funds to go private. The NHS (while I acknowledge its usefulness occasionally) have let me down at every level and I've got to the point where I've realised that I am just going to have to figure this out myself.

Just a quick back story

I'm 33 and live in the UK. I'm 5 ft 7 and currently 67 KGs (more on that later). An old ACL injury lead to a number of muscle imbalances that I'm working on trying to correct especially around my hips, hamstring and lumbar spine.

My endocrine system is currently a mess (labs below). Currently living off mate's couch, waiting for appointments with NHS docs (almost certainly a waste of time) and doing my best to a) not give up and b) figure this out myself. Everything ebbs and flows (in terms of my mood and energy levels) however at the moment I've had a few better days and am trying to make the most of them hence my being here putting pen to paper (well whatever the digital equivalent is).

Currently on 100 mcg T4 and 20 mcg T3 for my thyroid.

TSH - <0.1 mIU/L (0.3 - 3.18)
FT3 - 3.0 pmol/l (4.1 - 6.7)
FT4 - 11.2 pmol/l (13.1 -21.3)
TPO Antibodies - 9.1 IU/ml (0.0 - 24.0)
E2 - Waiting on the result (previous value of 55 pmol/l)
Test Total - 11.9 nmol/l (8.6 - 29)
FSH - 0.3
LH - <0.1 iu/L
Cortisol (9am) - 426 (133 - 537)
SHBG - 117 nmol/l (15-64)
Prolactin - 166 mu/l (86 - 324)
Ferritin - 495 ug/L (30 - 400)
Sodium - 141 mmol/l (136 - 145)
Potassium - 5 nmol/l (3.5 - 5.1)

So very long story short I believed I was misdiagnosed with Hashimotos years ago and put onto thyroid replacement without anyone looking at nutritional markers (ie, selenium, iodine etc). I started out on T4 but was a poor converter so had some T3 thrown in on top. My dosages of both have come down after I started taking my health into my own hands (was on 30 T3/ 150 T4). My hope was to try and get my SHBG down and free up some T. Ironically it went up (from 85) and my Total T crashed down to 6.8. 

I then did a month-long cycle of hCG (500 iu Mon. Wed/ Fri) and while I did notice what felt like improved neurosteroid production I put on nearly 6 kgs (which I'm now trying to shed). My mood also tanked towards the end of the experiment, can only assume my E2 skyrocketed. 

My sleep is crap, I have a deviated septum and I believe a potential sleep apnea. This and the high(ish) dosages of thyroid hormone may be resulting in increased Ferritin. I did consider a secondary hemochromatosis (a possible link there with my low T) however an Iron Study came back as completely normal. 

In the last year or so my FT3 and FT4 have both been steadily declining (despite the drop in Thyroid Meds) so I'm inclined to think that there may be a high TBG in the picture. I have nothing to confirm this with however, as far as I know, binding globulins tend to track together and if SHBG is through the roof then I feel my TBG is likely there as well. 

I'm obviously not on a low dose of thyroid hormone. I have tried to reduce the dosage further but end up feeling like hell, like I'm in a full-blown hypo state. I did hope the hCG would help to drop SHBG and boost thyroid function but it doesn't seem to have done much. I know it's real based on that LH value.

I've struggled with low, low normal total T and sky-high SHBG for a few years now and do feel I've done pretty much all I can (within the confines of my budget) to try and normalise my endocrine system without any further exogenous hormone use. To be frank I don't actually want to start TRT however my life is in the gutter and I'm not sure what else to do other than wait for another NHS doc to try and prescribe another bloody antidepressant. 

My diet isn't bad, I'm following a butchered version of John Kiefer's Back Loading Protocol and get in a fair amount of carbs (up to 150 grams a day) depending on training intensity. My HBA1C is currently a little on the high side and I find using carbs as a lever tends to help bring it down. 

Sodium is at five grams a day and potassium is whatever I consume in my food. Mag, I'm getting around 450 - 500 mg a day. I'm definitely not a keto guy (although I was at one point), my thyroid and shbg don't need any other hurdles thrown at them. 

On the training front, I'm doing what I can, I am working on dealing with my past injuries and the subsequent (functional) scoliosis I developed. I'm on my bike two to three days a week (mainly to build up hip strength) and then in the gym three days a week working on rehab. I tack on 45 minutes of unilateral hypertrophy type work onto the end of each rehab session with as much progressive overload thrown in as I can manage. 

I do the whole blue light control thing at night and work on trying to not hate myself as much as possible (chronic stress etc).

Goals include


-  At this point just getting better. I want to get back to training properly and build up to a decent weight.
- Try and get my brain functional enough so I can consistently work and support my loved ones before the shame and guilt of my current situation results in me doing something stupid.
- The rest can come later.

Okay, so my questions (if that's okay).

Is TRT at this stage worth it?  I'd follow what the current science suggests and use a short ester, injecting multiple times a week if not daily (80 - 125 mg weekly, would definitely start on the lower end). 

Id also want to coadminister HCG to maintain as much fertility as possible (maybe quarter the dosage and start at 125 EOD?). 

Then as vain as it sounds my hairline is important to me,  I'm currently using a Minoxidil/ Tretinoin topical and feel that I'd have to add in at least a topical Fin to account for increased DHT production. Ideally, I'd throw RU into the mix too but that may be pushing the budget side of things. 

Does anyone have any experience regarding 5AR inhibition whilst starting TRT? I've used oral Fin before (1mg) but it crushed me, not surprising given my levels of free T. Just looking for some advice here. 

Then lastly I'm currently about as swollen as the Michelin man and am really struggling with water retention. I've not really been tracking electrolytes much recently and water intake has been poor, I also ditched potassium supplementation a while back after starting Minox (not that in itself really had much of an effect on my weight changing, at the time). 

Would targeting the same five grams of sodium (historically a level I've felt best at) whilst getting in at least three litres of H20 and the RDA of potassium (which I'm not meeting) be a good place to start?

I'm pushing my GP for a sleep study and a possible visit to the ENT so I can see if I'm a good candidate for a septoplasty and I've asked for a lipid panel as well as some blood sugar parameters (mainly fasting insulin) and an updated HBA1C.

Honestly, I'm just trying to keep my head above water here and get my life back. I apologise for my shitty grammar, despite feeling less suicidal my brain feels like it's stuffed with sawdust at the moment. I do have other questions, for example, AIs but I think this is enough to get going with.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob


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## Yano (Jul 28, 2022)

@CJ   Lord of Paragraphs Please hear my cries and stop the burning in my eyes


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## CJ (Jul 28, 2022)

Yano said:


> @CJ   Lord of Paragraphs Please hear my cries and stop the burning in my eyes


No


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## Confused Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

Yano said:


> @CJ   Lord of Paragraphs Please hear my cries and stop the burning in my eyes


Apologies, will see if I can edit it.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

I seem to missed the editing windows. Again, my apologies.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

Ok I've screwed this up too, was supposed to post this in the Test and HRT Forum. I apologise, barely able to think. If an admin could move the post I'd be grateful. If not it can be deleted.


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## lfod14 (Jul 28, 2022)

You absolutely need TRT my man! Your levels suck shit, and your SHBG is double the range! So you literally can't get at the little test you have to use the shit. Your E2 levels I'm sure will be telling. Also, edit your post, and add that your test level is 342 ng/dL which is what the majority here are going to understand without needed to do conversions.

You absolutely need TRT, and you need to from a TRT clinic, not some NHS moron. Gonna have to go private on that one, OR just do it yourself. 

Work on that weight, man! I know, you know, but eat while you're thinking about it as well. I wouldn't overthink shit like the sleep studies or A1C, if you're not sugar bombing yourself it's gonna be fine. Worry about getting your hormones straightened out!

A note on the Thyroid, being wrongly diag'd with Hashi's though, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, if you use that to your advantage! You noe get given T4 and T3, that can be very usefull! 

On the 5AR, of COURSE you had issues with Fin, you have shit test levels (so you'll have shit DHT levels) you have high SHBG and then took a 5AR blocker! Your DHT levels are lower now than most that take 5AR's, so you're good (in that sense only) assuming it's hair you were taking it for. When this is all straightened out, if you wanted to help the hair go with a topical Finasteride, works better at the scalp and less systemic (not completely). Dermarolling and Minoxidil as well.


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## Gibsonator (Jul 28, 2022)

I applaud you on the looooongest initial post ever here, and probably anywhere on the internet, however, I, nor 99% of the members here will read that bro.
Best of luck.


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## CJ (Jul 28, 2022)

Fine, I'll fix it.


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## Yano (Jul 28, 2022)

CJ said:


> Fine, I'll fix it.


Its much better than it was , I actually got through it this time. Not sure if that was you or not but thanks man.

PS holy shit theres a lot of 50 cent words for my old dumb ass to look up haahah wow


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## Confused Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

Gibsonator said:


> I applaud you on the looooongest initial post ever here, and probably anywhere on the internet, however, I, nor 99% of the members here will read that bro.
> Best of luck.


Just doing the best I can, thanks for the reply and feedback.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

CJ said:


> Fine, I'll fix it.


I really appreciate it, thank you. Couldn't seem to edit it after a certain amount of time. Maybe I'm missing something?


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## beefnewton (Jul 28, 2022)

Confused Rob said:


> I really appreciate it, thank you. Couldn't seem to edit it after a certain amount of time. Maybe I'm missing something?



You can't edit your posts anymore after a period of time has passed.  Is it 15 minutes?  Keeps people from being sneaky.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

lfod14 said:


> You absolutely need TRT my man! Your levels suck shit, and your SHBG is double the range! So you literally can't get at the little test you have to use the shit. Your E2 levels I'm sure will be telling. Also, edit your post, and add that your test level is 342 ng/dL which is what the majority here are going to understand without needed to do conversions.
> 
> You absolutely need TRT, and you need to from a TRT clinic, not some NHS moron. Gonna have to go private on that one, OR just do it yourself.
> 
> ...


Really appreciate the feedback @ifod14. Thanks for the note regarding the correct units, will work with ng/dl going forwards. 

Think it's going to have to be a DIY job then, no chance, at the moment, that I'll be able to afford private docs. Very nervous, hence all the questions. Will start doing my homework on dosages and ancillaries etc. Will push for some more blood work, that'll be one less expense. 

Thanks for the feedback on the 5ar inhibition, means a lot. Know it's not important in the grand scheme of things but it is of value to me. Thanks for understanding..

Will start going through as many stickies as I can and see what I can pick here on UG before posting more questions.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

beefnewton said:


> You can't edit your posts anymore after a period of time has passed.  Is it 15 minutes?  Keeps people from being sneaky.


I got a '10 minute' error message when trying to edit earlier. Makes sense if the system is being abused. Thanks for clarifying.


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## Gcr (Jul 28, 2022)

Yano said:


> @CJ   Lord of Paragraphs Please hear my cries and stop the burning in my eyes


You're a really nice guy Yano


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## TODAY (Jul 28, 2022)

Woof, there's a lot to unpack here.

First off, it does sound as though you'd be a good candidate for TRT, especially since it sounds like lifestyle interventions haven't made much of a difference.

Can you post an example of what a normal day of eating and training looks like for you?


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## almostgone (Jul 29, 2022)

@Confused Rob , looks like the guys have hit most of the relevant points, particularly your elevated SHBG.

I'm going to go out on a limb and hope you can get test cyp where you're located. You will probably need to be dosed at the upper end of the typical damage range to have enough T to spill over past your high SHBG very and bring your free T up. I don't think Nebido will be enough to avoid the hormonal roller coaster ride.

Some guys have posted blood work at other forums claiming low dose winstrol or anavar will bring down SHBG. They were making a liquid suspension and dosing at around 5 mg/day.

Fortunately, my SHBG trends to the lower end of the range, although as I get older I wouldn't be surprised if it goes upward a tad ( I'll be 58 in September).

Be  prepared to go through some aggravating times with NIH. I hear they can be notoriously slow to treat but operate at light speed when it comes time to draw your blood. TRT will take a while to get dialed in, so I would suggest you get dialed in before you start adding in "a little extra more" of other AAS.

Good luck!!!

Edit: Just as general rule of thumb, lower bf% _usually _equates to a lower SHBG, lower E2, and higher free T. If you haven't gotten a 25-hydroxy d panel run, it still wouldn't hurt to start off supplementing with at least 2500iu daily. I was within range on the panel I mentioned and I still dose @ 5000iu/daily.

Vitamin D is actually a fat soluble, hormone, not a vitamin, so at some point your levels checked if NIH won't accommodate the request.

Also, on the HCG 250iu 2-3x/ week will help as well. If nothing else, it increases intratesticular testosterone.


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## Signsin1 (Jul 29, 2022)

Gcr said:


> You're a really nice guy Yano


Im not sure if your being a smartass, but Yano is one of the nicest guys on the board and helps everyone.

I enjoy his posts and ball-busting


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## almostgone (Jul 29, 2022)

@Confused Rob  please ignore the word "damage" in my post above. I'm typing off my phone and my thumbs got away from me.


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## almostgone (Jul 29, 2022)

@Confused Rob  If your SHBG continued to be a problem, talk with the NIH about *Danazol.*


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## Gcr (Jul 29, 2022)

Signsin1 said:


> Im not sure if your being a smartass, but Yano is one of the nicest guys on the board and helps everyone.
> 
> I enjoy his posts and ball-busting


I believe you and yes I was being a smartass only because he gave me a "bullshit detector" on a post but would not explain why. I'm 62, been around and it upset me because my post was legit! I apologize for my smart ass remark to Yano.


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## Signsin1 (Jul 29, 2022)

Gcr said:


> I believe you and yes I was being a smartass only because he gave me a "bullshit detector" on a post but would not explain why. I'm 62, been around and it upset me because my post was legit! I apologize for my smart ass remark to Yano.


No need to apologize! All good.

Try to not let that stuff bug you. It is a place to have thick skin

Lol .. "bullshit detector" 🤣🤣  That is funny as hell though


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## Gcr (Jul 29, 2022)

Signsin1 said:


> No need to apologize! All good.
> 
> Try to not let that stuff bug you. It is a place to have thick skin
> 
> Lol .. "bullshit detector" 🤣🤣  That is funny as hell though


I was on the old anabolic fitness board back in the 2000's with Ulter, Mr, Nobody, Macro, Animal and many others. I guess it's different today. Thanks brother!


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## Confused Rob (Jul 29, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Woof, there's a lot to unpack here.
> 
> First off, it does sound as though you'd be a good candidate for TRT, especially since it sounds like lifestyle interventions haven't made much of a difference.
> 
> Can you post an example of what a normal day of eating and training looks like for you?


Thanks for the reply @TODAY. I feel there's always more I could dial in on the lifestyle front. Gets expensive pretty quickly obviously and when the ROI just isn't there on the basic stuff then it leaves one wondering about the law of diminishing returns in that regard. Ie, how much further can you push diet and lifestyle before the returns are just nill, (if that makes sense).

Training is dull and simple at the moment. Three days a week I'm at the gym working on the rehab and strength/ hypertrophy work. There's nothing fancy there I spend x amount of time on mobility, proprioceptive work and rehab for the various imbalances I have. I then try (based on how rubbish I do or do not feel) to add in 30 to 45 minutes work of strength work. Two day full body split I rotate through three times a week (Day A, Day B, Day A etc). Exercise choice is largely unilateral and I just use progressive overload to move forwards. Struggling in this regard too but that's a post for another day (need a physical therapist's input at some point). The other one to three days I'm on the bike literally for the sake of trying to get my hips stability back, normally under 200 watts focusing on pedal technique, nothing more. If I push or go anaerobic I am screwed for days (I do not recover at all).

Diet model is a butchered version of John Kiefer's Carb Backloading programme. Basically I time my carbs around any exercise I do and then eat protein and fat the rest of the day. Food choices are pretty unexciting. Lean ground beef, tallow, heart, organ meat, few eggs from time to time, cruciferous veg, salt. Carb sources include white rice, sweet potatoes a little honey. Supplements, I'm just on the basics so magnesium, selenium (for my thyroid), a digestive enzyme, vit c, biotin (was found to be deficient) and boron. 

Not really counting calories at the moment, which is likely why my body isn't where I want it to be, but I am for around 2000 - 2200 calories a day. Protein at the gram per pound of body weight mark, carbs in at 100 to 150, fats make up the rest.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 29, 2022)

almostgone said:


> @Confused Rob , looks like the guys have hit most of the relevant points, particularly your elevated SHBG.
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb and hope you can get test cyp where you're located. You will probably need to be dosed at the upper end of the typical damage range to have enough T to spill over past your high SHBG very and bring your free T up. I don't think Nebido will be enough to avoid the hormonal roller coaster ride.
> 
> ...



Hi @almostgone, yeah am in the UK so should be able to get cyp/ enanthate (was doing some research into prop with regards to microdosing etc). Just looking at sourcing now. Yeah not keen on Nebido for a number of reasons so unlikely to go with the NHS (not that they've been of any help in any case). At this point, I'd really just like to try and stick with bioidenticals (ie, the lowest hanging fruit), thought about Proviron too but from what I understand (and I may well be wrong) it's already 5 Alpha Reduced which makes it a no go for me. 

Yeah I'm hoping I rely on the NHS for blood work otherwise this is a no go and I reckon it's irresponsible to just pin in the dark (as it were) and hope for the best. 

25-hydroxy D was run earlier in the year, I seem to be okay there at 65 ng/ml. My hCG trial has put Mr off the compound until I can figure out where I went wrong (I was on 500 iu three times a week though). E2 I assume went nuts as I looked like the Pillsbury Dough boy within a few weeks (gained 6 Kg nearly) and ended up feeling fairly hypertensive.   

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my essay. I do appreciate the feed back.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 29, 2022)

almostgone said:


> @Confused Rob  please ignore the word "damage" in my post above. I'm typing off my phone and my thumbs got away from me.


No worries at all. Thank you again.


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## BRICKS (Jul 30, 2022)

Good thing you came to a board full of endocrinologists with your questions.   

In all seriousness brother, I get that you're in a fkd up medical system but your plight is better suited for professionals who specialize.  Good luck, sincerely.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 30, 2022)

BRICKS said:


> Good thing you came to a board full of endocrinologists with your questions.
> 
> In all seriousness brother, I get that you're in a fkd up medical system but your plight is better suited for professionals who specialize.  Good luck, sincerely.


Appreciate the feedback man.. Just stuck between a rock and a hard place, not really sure what else to do. Weighing up options, just need to try and get out of this rut.. somehow


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## almostgone (Jul 30, 2022)

BRICKS said:


> Good thing you came to a board full of endocrinologists with your questions.
> 
> In all seriousness brother, I get that you're in a fkd up medical system but your plight is better suited for professionals who specialize.  Good luck, sincerely.


No claims to be an endo here, but at almost 58 years old, I've spent a lot of time on prescribed TRT. The one thing that the NHS does is really push Nebido, if they treat at all. So, when I see a chance to help someone, I do.


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## Clyde (Jul 30, 2022)

On the Danazol recommendation, I've no experience with it, but it sounds pretty extreme just to lower SHBG.

I had to do a quick look up Danazol. I recall reading about it in WAR a decade or so ago, but needed to refresh my memory. Danazol is 17aa and has widespread effects on different hormones and enzymes.








						Danazol - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




I do have experience with Proviron though. It's pretty mild and not 17aa, so not liver toxic for long term use, and reportedly works very efficiently at lowering SHBG. One downside for you is it's a DHT derivative. I'm not sure of it's affinity to the androgen receptors in the scalp with respect to your hair line, but it may be worth considering to free up some T.


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## almostgone (Jul 30, 2022)

Clyde said:


> On the Danazol recommendation, I've no experience with it, but it sounds pretty extreme just to lower SHBG.
> 
> I had to do a quick look up Danazol. I recall reading about it in WAR a decade or so ago, but needed to refresh my memory. Danazol is 17aa and has widespread effects on different hormones and enzymes.
> 
> ...


Danazol is generally reserved for extreme cases as you mentioned it affects numerous hormones. Typically reserved for women that have reproductive issues. I had never heard of it until the wife was diagnosed with endometriosis after her second miscarriage. I mainly pointed it out to @Confused Rob to get home thinking along the lines that he likely will have to educate himself and and be ready to present information to his PCP or endo, whoever NHS sends him to. A lot of the NHS go with Nebido, follow the original dosing protocol, and never make adjustments based on the individuals physiology. 

Some guys opt for Winstrol or var in alcohol and use an eyedropper and slowly work up to a dosage that brings down their SHBG. It doesn't take much. If I recall correctly one thread I followed with lab results posted a while back, their were using 5mg of Winstrol in 20ml of everclear and measuring with an eyedropper. For example, his standard dosage was 8 drops per day.


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## almostgone (Jul 30, 2022)

I've got one link saved to another forum where he experimented with anavar and drastically lowered his SHBG. 
I'm unsure what the rules are here regarding posting links to other forums. 
If it isn't frowned upon, let me know, and I will post the link. 

After having to go on TRT with a shitty heart and a generic clotting disorder, I've developed an interest in different protocols, etc. 

LOL, not to say I don't throw in a little extra test/AAS or Serostim in between Dr. appointments, because I still do.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 30, 2022)

almostgone said:


> No claims to be an endo here, but at almost 58 years old, I've spent a lot of time on prescribed TRT. The one thing that the NHS does is really push Nebido, if they treat at all. So, when I see a chance to help someone, I do.


Which I really appreciate, thanks man..


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## Confused Rob (Jul 30, 2022)

Clyde said:


> On the Danazol recommendation, I've no experience with it, but it sounds pretty extreme just to lower SHBG.
> 
> I had to do a quick look up Danazol. I recall reading about it in WAR a decade or so ago, but needed to refresh my memory. Danazol is 17aa and has widespread effects on different hormones and enzymes.
> 
> ...


Know very little about Danazol so will look into it, thanks for the tip. It may be pathetic but yeah, my hairline is somewhat important to me and I don't really see the point in destroying what little self confidence I have left if I can find a workaround. I reckon starting with the lowest hanging fruit (as it were) likely isn't a bad idea either? I can combat a lot of the basic DHT spillover of straight TRT with 5AR inhibition and then add on non-bioidenticals as needed (if cyp or the likes) doesn't free up enough of my SHBG. Does that make sense? Sorry I am starting to flounder, my brain is much today.


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## almostgone (Jul 30, 2022)

Confused Rob said:


> Know very little about Danazol so will look into it, thanks for the tip. It may be pathetic but yeah, my hairline is somewhat important to me and I don't really see the point in destroying what little self confidence I have left if I can find a workaround. I reckon starting with the lowest hanging fruit (as it were) likely isn't a bad idea either? I can combat a lot of the basic DHT spillover of straight TRT with 5AR inhibition and then add on non-bioidenticals as needed (if cyp or the likes) doesn't free up enough of my SHBG. Does that make sense? Sorry I am starting to flounder, my brain is much today.


I seriously doubt you will require Danazol, it's really reserved for short durations and extreme cases.....mainly trying to help you get loaded up with info to use when you see NHS.

I would attack it one step at a time because too many irons in the fire can really be frustrating.

Outside of introducing var or winstrol, the best approach seems to be hitting a dosage high enough total T so the spillover into free T has you at a good point.

Since I'm unsure about posting links to other forums, I will attempt to send it via PM. I may not have enough posts here yet, but hopefully it will go through because I think you'll find the information very useful.

PM sent.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 30, 2022)

almostgone said:


> Danazol is generally reserved for extreme cases as you mentioned it affects numerous hormones. Typically reserved for women that have reproductive issues. I had never heard of it until the wife was diagnosed with endometriosis after her second miscarriage. I mainly pointed it out to @Confused Rob to get home thinking along the lines that he likely will have to educate himself and and be ready to present information to his PCP or endo, whoever NHS sends him to. A lot of the NHS go with Nebido, follow the original dosing protocol, and never make adjustments based on the individuals physiology.
> 
> Some guys opt for Winstrol or var in alcohol and use an eyedropper and slowly work up to a dosage that brings down their SHBG. It doesn't take much. If I recall correctly one thread I followed with lab results posted a while back, their were using 5mg of Winstrol in 20ml of everclear and measuring with an eyedropper. For example, his standard dosage was 8 drops per day.


That's the irony in all of this. I've seen an endo, all they were interested in was my thyoird. I was up front about the hCG usage, told them why. Tried to talk to them about my elevated SHBG and TBG. I had to point out that while my current total t was around 340 that my SHBG was still over 100. They didn't seem to realise that hCG is an LH analogue and that it can be used in men to raise total T. All I got was ' I need to confer with a colleague,' and a promise that I'll be contacted within a few days (two weeks ago). I presented this all to them in a neat little package too, written up etc. I am by no means an expert, barely a lay person but I left that app feeling like giving up. Honestly, it's why I'm here. Like I mentioned previously, if I could afford to go private I would but I can't.  Thanks will look into the Win/ Anavar literature too.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 30, 2022)

almostgone said:


> I seriously doubt you will require Danazol, it's really reserved for short durations and extreme cases.....mainly trying to help you get loaded up with info to use when you see NHS.
> 
> I would attack it one step at a time because too many irons in the fire can really be frustrating.
> 
> ...


Thanks @almostgone.. I think we're on the same page, start off with the basics and go from there. I'm also keen to get off as much thyroid medication as I can as I'm sure that's also driving the SHBG, my hope (and theory) is that TRT will also drive down my (presumably) elevated TBG freeing up more FT3/ FT4. I'm already pushing Selenium and Iodine to help with Deiodinase activity. Thanks for the PM, will check it out now.


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## Confused Rob (Jul 31, 2022)

With regards to the SHBG side of the equation. Has anyone any thoughts on running a low dose sarm, ie Ostartine, over something more androgenic like Proviron to bring down the SHBG? Obviously, I'd have to run some test to compensate for the low total T.


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## Confused Rob (Aug 23, 2022)

So just an update for anyone who is curious. 

Saw the endocrinologist again. Only concerned about the free thyroid values being on the low end. Low T and sky high SHBG not an issue in her mind. Up the Cytomel and Levothyroxine and all will be good, apparently. Wasn't interested in testing Thyroxine/ Cortisol Binding Globulin. 

Picked up some Test E and a few ancillaries from SouthernGhost here in the UK. Front loading 200mg this week, (twice weekly administrations to combat the SHBG), will drop down to 100 mg next week. First pin was yesterday, don't feel any different but I barely slept last night and I don't suppose androgens are pure magic. Next step will be to test and see where my sex hormones and thyroid markers are at (about 6 weeks). Adjust the dosage of the thyroid meds and test e from there. 

If SHBG is still high I'll either move up to 125mg a week or add in a low dose of Ostarine. The hope is to get onto a more of a microdosing schedule at some point and to also introduce hCG (starting at around 125 iu two to three times a week) to support fertility and neurosteroid production. 

Otherwise working on some GI issues and am trying to get an app with an ENT to look at my septum which is pretty deviated (ferritin is elevated and I often wake up breathing heavily). 

@TODAY @almostgone @beefnewton @Clyde @JackAsserson (please let me know if you don't want to be tagged, just keeping everyone up to date).


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