# trt or no? need help



## Bugspray (Feb 22, 2013)

I need HELP! Here are my blood tests.. no trt.. 30 years old 6' tall and weigh 230lbs and lift weights
*COLLECTED: 10/11/2012 *
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN - --*21*--------10-50 NMOL/L U
PROLACTIN ------- *6.5 *   ----------------------------2.0-18.0 NG/ML U
FSH ---------*2.8*  ----------   --- ------------------1.6-8.0 MIU/ML U
LH -            *3.2*  ---------------------------------1.5-9.3 MIU/ML U
VITAMIN D,25-OH,TOTAL ----*32*------------------ 30-100 ng/mL
TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL,LC/MS/MS ----------*259* -----250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE,FREE ----------------*47.4*----------- 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

*COLLECTED: 10/12/2012*
TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL,LC/MS/MS ------*172* L -----------250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE,FREE ------- *39.0* -----------------35.0-155.0 pg/mL

*COLLECTED: 12/03/2012*    while on Androgel 1.62% 1pump a day for this test
SODIUM -------------*139 *-----------------------    135-146 MMOL/L
POTASSIUM ----------*4.0* -----------------------     3.5-5.3 MMOL/L
CHLORIDE ------------*102* ----------------- -----     98-110 MMOL/L
CARBON DIOXIDE -----*27* -----------------------    21-33 MMOL/L
CALCIUM --------------*9.6* -------------------- --      8.6-10.3 MG/DL
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE *72* --------------------      40-115 U/L
AST -------------------- *28* --------------------------- 10-40 U/L
ALT ----------------------*41* -----------------------    9-60 U/L
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL ------  *0.5* -----------------------   0.2-1.2 MG/DL
GLUCOSE ------------------*113 H*  -----------------     65-99 MG/DL
UREA NITROGEN ---------*15* -----------------------   7-25 MG/DL
CREATININE --------------*0.96* -------------------   0.60-1.35 MG/DL
BUN/CREATININE RATIO *15.6 *-------------------------  6-22
PROTEIN,TOTAL    ------------*7.3*   -----------6.1-8.1 G/DL
ALBUMIN *4.5* ---------   3.6-5.1 G/DL
GLOBULIN,CALCULATED *2.8*     1.9-3.7 G/DL
A/G RATIO *1.5*            1.0-2.5
WBC *7.3*        3.8-10.8 THOUS/MCL
RBC *5.50*        4.20-5.80 MILL/MCL
HEMOGLOBIN *16.7*        13.2-17.1 G/DL
HEMATOCRIT *47.9*     38.5-50.0 %
MCV *87.0*          80.0-100.0 FL
MCH *30.4*            27.0-33.0 PG
MCHC *34.9*       32.0-36.0 G/DL
RDW *13.4*     11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT *211*     140-400 THOUS/MCL
PLATELET SUFFICIENCY NORMAL NORMAL
NEUTROPHILS,ABSOLUTE *4570*     1500-7800 CELLS/MCL
LYMPHOCYTES,ABSOLUTE *2080 *    850-3900 CELLS/MCL
MONOCYTES,ABSOLUTE *430*      200-950 CELLS/MCL
EOSINOPHILS,ABSOLUTE *250*    15-500 CELLS/MCL
BASOPHILS,ABSOLUTE *0*     0-200 CELLS/MCL
TOTAL NEUTROPHILS,% *63*     38-80 %
TOTAL LYMPHOCYTES,%* 28*     15-49 %
MONOCYTES,% *6*      0-13 %
EOSINOPHILS,% *3*     0-8 %
BASOPHILS,% *0*    0-2 %
RBC MORPHOLOGY NORMAL
TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL *193 L*      241-827 NG/DL

*COLLECTED: 02/06/2013*  While on 3 pumps of Androgel daily for this test
SODIUM *138* 135-146 MMOL/L
POTASSIUM *4.0* 3.5-5.3 MMOL/L
CHLORIDE *102* 98-110 MMOL/L
CARBON DIOXIDE *24* 19-30 MMOL/L
CALCIUM *9.2* 8.6-10.3 MG/DL
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE *70* 40-115 U/L
AST *41 H* 10-40 U/L
ALT *37* 9-60 U/L
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL *0.7* 0.2-1.2 MG/DL
GLUCOSE *107 H* 65-99 MG/DL
UREA NITROGEN *14 *7-25 MG/DL
CREATININE *1.11* 0.60-1.35 MG/DL
BUN/CREATININE RATIO *12.3* 6-22
PROTEIN,TOTAL *7.1* 6.1-8.1 G/DL
ALBUMIN *4.4* 3.6-5.1 G/DL
GLOBULIN,CALCULATED *2.7* 1.9-3.7 G/DL
A/G RATIO *1.6* 1.0-2.5
HEMATOCRIT *49.2* 38.5-50.0 % 
TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL,LC/MS/MS *370* 250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE,FREE *87.3* 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

Went in to see my Endocrinologist to review my bloodwork today and she was not in so I saw a different endo and he took me off androgel said I didn't need to taper off. Said my testees are making Testosterone on their own so I should not be on TRT whatsoever.. also because my t levels have always been close to range he said. He prescribed me Metformin HCL 500MG.
I'm so confused and pissed off I dont know what to do! I did finaflex hd-550 before it was banned.. actually did it a few times had amazing gains and did pct everytime. a year later I decided to get some bloodwork cause I was feeling pretty crappy nonstop. So what should I do now?


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## DF (Feb 22, 2013)

Your endo said you were in range??? This was while you we're on the gel so they take you off?? Your a young guy with very low test levels.  First thing the gel sucks ass.  The shit is pretty much useless.  Look for a new doc or go with a trt clinic if trt is the way you want to go.

Welcome to SI btw!  Lots of trt guys here that know their stuff.


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## Bugspray (Feb 22, 2013)

me right before my first bloodwork in october.. just putting that out there.
I appreciate the quick reply Dfeaton.. so what other way is there besides TRT?


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## DF (Feb 22, 2013)

Great build for having crappy test levels brother.  It's possible you could try a restart to bring your natty levels back.


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## RedLang (Feb 22, 2013)

Those levels are pathetic mate. And with the gel is just wrong.  
You have a test level of a 70 year old eunach. Not really but you get the point.

You need intervention to get those levels up. A restart may be possible and worth it in your situation if thats the way you want to go.

Immediately stop dealing with these clowns who think they understand the male endocrine system. Get yourself to a trt clinic or a decent dr (where are you located, some guys here my be able to give some details) who actually understands testosterone. 

Once you get dialled in on test and recieve the treatment you need, you will feel like a completly different person.

Research and ask more questions. Its the best thing you can do fo your health at this point.

Btw the glucose is slightly elevated. Are these fasted numbers? Low test can actually reduce insulin sensitivity.


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## Bugspray (Feb 22, 2013)

RedLang said:


> the glucose is slightly elevated. Are these fasted numbers? Low test can actually reduce insulin sensitivity.



Thanks for the replies fellas I really appreciate the help. No none of those are fasted numbers. 

Im in Pittsburgh PA and I am willing to travel by car to get me some real help! If anyone knows of a place I could go to I would really appreciate it. I do have Insurance but if I have to pay out of pocket I will!


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## transcend2007 (Feb 23, 2013)

Your age would have me leaning towards trying everything possible to not start TRT yet.  You have plenty of time for that.  For most of us TRT is a life-time decision.

I would try everything else first.  Cashout has some really great info here on SI about maximizing your natural levels.  Includes factors such as stress relief, emotional well being along with nutrition, excercise, and chemistry.  All of these factors do play a roll in your overall hormone health.


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## whitelml (Feb 26, 2013)

Im 26 and on trt.  Started 6 months ago and im still feeling better every day.  My number averaged 300 on three different early morning test and had never touched AAS.   It was a huge decision to go on trt but the pros outweigh ed the cons for me.  If you cannot handle your symptoms then trt is your best bet.   Personally I think the gel is a waste and injections are the way to go.   Find another endo if you have to because the good ones are few and far between.


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## TheLupinator (Feb 26, 2013)

I wouldn't jump on trt if you don't plan on running a cycle, but if you run a real cycle then I wouldn't even waste my time going through pct just to get back to low natty test levels.. untill then I'd run ostarine for 8weeks, then clomid as a test booster for 8weeks, then an 8week break, rinse, repeat.. thats what I'd do


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## coltmc4545 (Feb 27, 2013)

Sounds like you never fully recovered from the fina cycles. What was your pct after these cycles? I'm also 30 and I've been on self prescribed trt for about a year. Although the year has consisted of more blasting then cruising. But my HPTA's shot. Was before I ever cycled from other chemicals I abused in the past. After my first 19nor cycle my levels never even came close back into range. I stayed off for a full year hoping I'd bounce back but never did. Search for cashouts thread about trt exit strategy. If you plan on cycling more then honestly I'd recommended trt. But that's a big decision and not one to take lightly. Don't just think ah well I'll just do one more cycle and try to recover because that one more cycle might completely trash any chance you had in recovering. If you decide you don't want to cycle anymore and want to try recovering, follow cashouts protocol he has outlined in that thread. Hopefully it all works out for you bro and welcome to SI.


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## BigFella (Feb 27, 2013)

1. Welcome. The guys here know an infinite amount more than your doctor and have personal experience. 
2. Read Cashout's restart thread. At your age I would try that first. (I'm the resident old bastard, on TRT and loving it.)
3. Low test kills. You aren't dealing with a mild problem. I was at times suicidal, and I don't mind admitting it. And my levels weren't much lower than yours.
4. Transdermals suck. Totally. They are a dreadfully inefficient and erratic delivery system. You will be on a roller coaster non-stop. I doubt that there is one forum reader who, having used transdermal T and injectable T, would choose the former. 
5. Some people say that deciding on TRT is a one way decision. Not so. Read Cashout's thread again. You can decide and later on you can un-decide. 
6. When you get on injected Test E (because that's probably where you'll end up) inject twice a week and enjoy.
7. Ask shitloads of questions. The answers are here.


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## BigFella (Feb 27, 2013)

Oh, and it appears the idiots didn't think of checking Estrogen. Read this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18426834/


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## BigFella (Feb 27, 2013)

And no, I'm not suggesting you're obese (great pic earlier!) but IF this works so well, administering an aromatise inhibitor, thus lowering Estrogen, then it's likely it will work for others. And transdermals aromatise heavily - at least in my experience.


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## Bugspray (Mar 8, 2013)

Turned in all paperwork to trt on demand. 
Suggested protocol is
200ml of test weekly 
500-1000 units of Hcg per week
1-2mg of anastrozle a week
1ml of b12 two to three times a week
Price &^%$

What do u guys think?


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## DF (Mar 8, 2013)

Your initial script/assessment is what will cost the most.  Just know that you probably will not need that much AI.  The test is a good amount & you can play with how often you'll pin.  I adjusted my protocol down to 125mg/5days.  I also stopped taking hcg cause I don't care if my boys are plump or kids atm.  The B12 not sure if you'll actually need it unless your bloodwork shows  that you are low.  I say go for it!  I've been on trt for 1 1/2 years & would not go back.  Also I'm just going to edit the price out b/c no price talk is allowed even though it's leagal trt.  If the boss says it's ok to put it back up then I will.  Any questions feel free to PM me.



Bugspray said:


> Turned in all paperwork to trt on demand.
> Suggested protocol is
> 200ml of test weekly
> 500-1000 units of Hcg per week
> ...


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## amore169 (Mar 8, 2013)

I been on TRT for almost 6 years already, it was a life changing experience when I got everything dial in cause at the beginning I was a mess, what I would recommend u is read read and read everything about TRT, cause this is a life commitment therapy, good luck.


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## 03ACE (Mar 8, 2013)

I know a lot of the clinics like to prescribe 200+/- a week to people, but I have found that I just didn't need it. 160mg made my total test 1200+ and the wife and I were arguing all the time because I wanted sex a couple of times a day  I also had to up the AI, which I didn't particularly want to do. I am down to 60mg e84h, and feeling better all around. No HCG (insurance is paying for my treatment through my GP). Will be testing again in a few weeks to see where I am, as far as E2 goes.


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## dk8594 (Mar 8, 2013)

Bugspray said:


> Turned in all paperwork to trt on demand.
> Suggested protocol is
> 200ml of test weekly
> 500-1000 units of Hcg per week
> ...



Almost identical to mine minus the b12


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## Bugspray (Mar 8, 2013)

How long did it take to see results and where are your levels currently? 





dk8594 said:


> Almost identical to mine minus the b12


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## dk8594 (Mar 9, 2013)

I felt results the first week. It felt f*&^ing phenomenal and saw differences in my body composition within a month. I just kick myself for not doing it sooner. Haven't been good about blood work getting done so I can't give you a number. Its expensive doing it the legit way without insurance, but worth every penny.


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## Bugspray (Mar 20, 2013)

So if androgel somewhat worked for me.. Would it do anything if I was to stack it with the protocol from trt in demand?


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## Iso60 (Mar 21, 2013)

Ive been on TRT for the past 2 years been taking 100mg test C EW no AI that keeps me around 900-1000 and down to 500 day of next shot. No reason to stack androgel and a injection protocol. If i were you i would just switch to injection completely an drop the gel.


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## dk8594 (Mar 21, 2013)

No need to stack.  Just do the protocol.


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## gymrat827 (Mar 22, 2013)

buddy... no way to live like that.   

if your going to be on TRT go inj.  the gel works but wont be as stable as the real deal.  with those numbers just go and find a local trt clinic and your in biz.    

your missing out. no need to


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