# dmz cycle help / start of dmz log



## dejected dust (Feb 17, 2016)

hey guys, about to start a dmz cycle. fist im 25 years old 5'8 about 210 bench is 355 squat is about 425 deads are 565. ok so plan is to run for 4 weeks at 15/30/30/30. had some say that the week of fifteen is unnecessary and i should just do 30 the whole time. also had some say that i should run it for 6 weeks. my reason for running it four weeks is that most logs ive read show reall gains kicking in at about 2 weeks and that after 4 sides just go up without to much added benefit. while on cycle i will be running ai cycle assist which i just started preloading. for pct i plan Nolva at 20/20/10/10 and daa at 3/3/3/3/3 along with creatine and possibly a pw depending on blood pressure. if any one has any suggestions i appreciate the input. i am alos considering logging this cycle if any one seems interested


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## ToolSteel (Feb 17, 2016)

It's a ph. It will shut your balls off. To run it properly you need an injectable testosterone base.


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## Beedeezy (Feb 18, 2016)

I wouldn't.
For the hepatic toxicity and shut down, just hold off until you can use the real thing. That shit is harsh on the body, not worth it in my opinion. Lets be real though, I don't expect you to listen to me, no one does and for good reason!


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

Everything I've read shows decent results with this with not to crazy if sides it's been compared to supper drol I could get straight test


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> Everything I've read shows decent results with this with not to crazy if sides it's been compared to supper drol I could get straight test



Oral only is for females.  Run this and your test production gets suppressed. Leaving you with no test in the body.  That doesn't sound like a recipe for success.


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

Natty Test levles will be suppressed no matter what on a cycle. If you put anything into your body for a long enough time it will stop producing it. If
 injecribles didn't supress test then pct would not be needed. This is why I was suggesting running a short cycle no longer then five weeks so that natural test levles are not as suppressed


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## Uncle manny (Feb 22, 2016)

You definitely need some source of test base. When I was on ph's I would use 4 andro, trest/ment or stano and I was still able to get wood regularly. But from years of using ph's, I'd say don't even waste your time and get some test and run a real cycle.


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

People put on up to fifteen pounds how is that a recipe for disaster.


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

So you used a test base for every pH cycle


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## ToolSteel (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> People put on up to fifteen pounds how is that a recipe for disaster.


Because then they lose it after.


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## Uncle manny (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> So you used a test base for every pH cycle



Yes i definitely did. Who wants to make some gains and walk around with a limp noodle. Ts is right the 15 lbs you gain goes just as fast as it comes when your done with your cycle. It's mostly water anyways.


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

Ill be honest guys my wife is completely against pinning but is cool with this for some reason. And from what I read this is the next best thing


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

Uncle manny said:


> Yes i definitely did. Who wants to make some gains and walk around with a limp noodle. Ts is right the 15 lbs you gain goes just as fast as it comes when your done with your cycle. It's mostly water anyways.



Why do people continue to run phs for multiple cycles I'm not saying your wrong just don't get it


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## Infantry87 (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> Why do people continue to run phs for multiple cycles I'm not saying your wrong just don't get it



Because most "people" at your average gym are fukking retarded. Whatever bro-lore going around at that time most dudes will say yea that seems like a good idea, when in all reality after they run this oral PH only cycle they couldn't get their dick hard if alexis texas showed up asshole naked. Don't forget PH can and will give you gyno, so basically youll have tits and a limp dick. Have fun with that


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

How do compounds that don't armotize give gyno especially with Nova as pct I'm lost.


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## Infantry87 (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> How do compounds that don't armotize give gyno especially with Nova as pct I'm lost.



I have a few buddies who ran dmz/superdrol/halodrol etc overseas and all of them got some form of gyno. Who knows how legit or what exactly some of this shit may be anymore. Your putting a prohormone into your body without any form of testosterone. You may be one of the ones that don't get it and you may be one of the few that do. Why risk it? Its up to you bud but 99% of the people here will tell you to use some test with a proper pct.


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

Infantry87 said:


> Because most "people" at your average gym are fukking retarded. Whatever bro-lore going around at that time most dudes will say yea that seems like a good idea, when in all reality after they run this oral PH only cycle they couldn't get their dick hard if alexis texas showed up asshole naked. Don't forget PH can and will give you gyno, so basically youll have tits and a limp dick. Have fun with that



This has gotta be a troll


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## Uncle manny (Feb 22, 2016)

People will run ph's multiple times because they just don't know better. Also it's much easier to order these pills pop em and make gains. people are scared of pinning and don't know where to find a legit source. That's exactly why I did ph's for a few years until the ban and i was like fck it time to step it up. Did tons of research asked the fellas here for help, did my first cycle and kept practically all my gains. Just tell your wife pinning is actually safer then the pills. If you end up just doing the dmz atleast find an oral test. Some may say they don't work. It's definitely nothing like real test but it should keep your soldier saluting.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> This has gotta be a troll



Funny, we're all thinking the same about you.


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## HydroEJP88 (Feb 22, 2016)

I ran mdrol before I knew any better and it shut my natural test down and gave me minor gyno. 

Now I'm on a lifetime supply of TRT, really glad I decided to use it. Not.


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## Infantry87 (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> This has gotta be a troll



Gotta pay the troll toll in get in my boyhole.. Seriously run all the dmz you want too without test. Don't come back bitching when it shuts you down and you feel like shit.


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## AlphaD (Feb 22, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> Ill be honest guys my wife is completely against pinning but is cool with this for some reason. And from what I read this is the next best thing



Sounds more like you may have the needle fear, dont blame on the wife.....



dejected dust said:


> This has gotta be a troll



And think first before you come on here and post that Infantry, a founding member of this forum is a troll................


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

Alright hear me out apologies for the troll comment. But I see full logs of DMZ supper drol hellla drol and many others on a regular basis with no re bound and good gains. I usually only hear of gyno or lose of all gains with no serm.  Agian apologies for the troll comment it's just hard to believe that all those logs are a lie. And honestly I have no problem with the needle at all.


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

Lol I ve it's always sunny no harm no meant with the comment just half to think there's no good to phs. Any opinion on adding in trest.


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## gymrat827 (Feb 22, 2016)

It will work.  

But your going to have to run a very fine line with gyno.  

The reason why I have light gyno is from PHs.  

So, we're not just be cock suckers and jack assess here, we're trying to tell u what's going to happen 6/8/10 months down the road.  

Gyno comes from PHs and supp type AIs.  Bad gear and bad AIs equal gyno.  


Read the stuff around here, u won't find a ph log. 

Keep going til u can find some tes (don't ask here)


GL man.


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## dejected dust (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm not sure what the plan is now. I haven't started anything except support sups. Maybe I'll try to convince the wife gyno isn't really with 12pounds to me. At the same point I do know I'm ready to step my training  up. And not telling her what I'm running isn't an option


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## ToolSteel (Feb 22, 2016)

What's your current height/weight and approx bf%


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> What's your current height/weight and approx bf%



5" 7 212 15 percent


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

Why does see hight matter


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> Why does see hight matter



Cause if you are 5 feet 2 inches and 200lbs you are jacked as hell. If you are 6 foot 3 and 200 you are a rail and need to learn how to eat and train. It gives us a sense if you have a handle on the basics before complicating it with drugs.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> How do compounds that don't armotize give gyno especially with Nova as pct I'm lost.



Some compounds like drol for instance don't aromatize but act as an agonist at the estradiol receptor so basically it's like your body reacts like there's estradiol but the compound doesn't aromatize.


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Cause if you are 5 feet 2 inches and 200lbs you are jacked as hell. If you are 6 foot 3 and 200 you are a rail and need to learn how to eat and train. It gives us a sense if you have a handle on the basics before complicating it with drugs.



I gotcha that's kinda the problem I'm basically at the point where I ethier make every slow progress gress or I step it up


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

So you do you feel that gyno is going to be more likely with a pH then a test cycle


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> So you do you feel that gyno is going to be more likely with a pH then a test cycle



Any compound that aromatizes or interacts with the estradiol receptor can cause gyno. The likelihood of it happening will depend on factors outside your control for the most part. A SERM like nolva or raloxifene can help though.


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

I planed on running nolva 20/20/10/10


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

I do appreciate the input guys.


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## BiologicalChemist (Feb 23, 2016)

Dust..your wife is ok with dmz because it's an oral and she doesn't know any better..she doesn't know why she thinks this. She probably knows nothing of AAS, liver toxicity etc...injecting is easy, safer and much more effective than an oral only let alone a pH. If you were smart you'd listen to the guys in here and grab a testosterone base for your first cycle, stacked with the tried and true DBol, Tbol etc.. you would be more than happy. Either way ur gonna want to up your dose of nolva/clomid for pct imo.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> 5" 7 212 15 percent





dejected dust said:


> Why does see hight matter




Because those stats give you an ffmi of 28.5. 
So there's 3 possible reasons for that:
1: You have genetics rivaling Ronnie Coleman. 
2: You underestimated your bf% by a good amount. 
3: You're not natural.


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## Uncle manny (Feb 23, 2016)

Unfortunately we're usually a few % up from what we think we are.


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## silvereyes87 (Feb 23, 2016)

I'm running dmz with test e 250. Getting good muscle and strength gains. U can make good gains but DO NOT take without test base. I have multiple friends who took without test and suffered limp dick and also yes it can cause gyno. Make sure if u do take with test u run as u would any cycle. Keep ai on hand and do proper pct. If you don't have the test or can't take it simple don't take the dmz. It's not worth it alone.
Also only ever run it at 4 weeks max. It's pretty damn liver toxic.


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Because those stats give you an ffmi of 28.5.
> So there's 3 possible reasons for that:
> 1: You have genetics rivaling Ronnie Coleman.
> 2: You underestimated your bf% by a good amount.
> 3: You're not natural.



Honestly ffmi is not a good way imo to determine if  someone is natty even if I'm 20 percent bf I would be above natural limits and that's a huge difference from 15 percent. On Wednesday I'll have my professor test it. I could always just put a pic on here and let u guys decide


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

BiologicalChemist said:


> Dust..your wife is ok with dmz because it's an oral and she doesn't know any better..she doesn't know why she thinks this. She probably knows nothing of AAS, liver toxicity etc...injecting is easy, safer and much more effective than an oral only let alone a pH. If you were smart you'd listen to the guys in here and grab a testosterone base for your first cycle, stacked with the tried and true DBol, Tbol etc.. you would be more than happy. Either way ur gonna want to up your dose of nolva/clomid for pct imo.



I am would love to go this route but can't  without having my wife on board with me.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> Honestly ffmi is not a good way imo to determine if  someone is natty even if I'm 20 percent bf I would be above natural limits and that's a huge difference from 15 percent. On Wednesday I'll have my professor test it. I could always just put a pic on here and let u guys decide


It is into the mid teens. 

Anyway, point is, even if you estimated low you still have a considerable amount of mass for your height. And oral/ph only cycle will give you a boost, yes, but you'll drop right back to where you started. 

Today's ph's are simply oral steroids. And oral only cycles are for women.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> I am would love to go this route but can't  without having my wife on board with me.


So have her watch bigger faster stronger. If she's a reasonable logical person, she'll at least be open to discussion.


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

Tool steel it showed me at 26 even if I'm 20 percent and I know I'm not (or at least hope i fond oit friday) any way is what your getting at that of I'm this developed then an oral cycle will just put  me a slight bump from where I am. Maybe I'll take a look at my diet cut out some of the shit (pizza and beer) and do a recomp for summer. That's of I can't get the wife on board for a real cycle.


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## gymrat827 (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> I'm not sure what the plan is now. I haven't started anything except support sups. Maybe I'll try to convince the wife gyno isn't really with 12pounds to me. At the same point I do know I'm ready to step my training  up. And not telling her what I'm running isn't an option



dude make your wife pin you.  just slowly eas her into this sh!t.  

my wife will take GH if i pin her


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

I wish it was that easy bro I'm trying she's also prego so it's even harder to reason with her. She thinks I can make it to the next level naturally. She honestly does not understand natural limitations regardless of genetics.


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## Beedeezy (Feb 23, 2016)

True story, when I was starting my first cycle (granted I think the test was bunk) I didn't tell my wife. Short of it she found it and lost her shit. It created more hassle, than had I taken the high ground and talked to her about it from the start.
After education and lots of talking about it, then more education showing her most of the shit she thought she knew was the media hype machine in full effect, we decided together I'd run a cycle and if things got out of control like the movies and the media was right I'd stop.

Fast forward, by the 4th week of my cycle she was helping me pin mon/thurs with 2.5ml of oil and silly as it sounds she preferred to do the pin. It's almost like she considered it a bonding moment or something with the whole ritual of drawing it up, cleaning the site and hold pressure on my glute after injection.
What I'm saying is this, the most against it person, can be a pleasure to help in the process with proper education. So educate yourself as much as you can, so when she asks a question you have an answer and don't have to bullshit her. Never know by the end she might even pout when you pin yourself for convenience before she gets home from work.

Good Luck


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## gymrat827 (Feb 23, 2016)

Beedeezy said:


> True story, when I was starting my first cycle (granted I think the test was bunk) I didn't tell my wife. Short of it she found it and lost her shit. It created more hassle, than had I taken the high ground and talked to her about it from the start.
> After education and lots of talking about it, then more education showing her most of the shit she thought she knew was the media hype machine in full effect, we decided together I'd run a cycle and if things got out of control like the movies and the media was right I'd stop.
> 
> Fast forward, by the 4th week of my cycle she was helping me pin mon/thurs with 2.5ml of oil and silly as it sounds she preferred to do the pin. It's almost like she considered it a bonding moment or something with the whole ritual of drawing it up, cleaning the site and hold pressure on my glute after injection.
> ...



steriods or aas are blown way over board in the news/media.  Once you teach her a bit, a pin of 150mgs of tes e aint sh!t.  

just slowly bring it on.  

Prego women can flip.


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## Beedeezy (Feb 23, 2016)

IMO, whatever you do make sure you have her blessing. It's your wife and future mother of your child, starting a cycle isn't more important then that. If it is, then you have a bigger problem on your hands and need to make sure you don't have someone who is going to sabotage and have the police at your door one day.

When I say, I educated my wife ect it was not overnight. You have to be delicate with it and use the news almost to your advantage. Say your watching tv and a news report says xyz, if it's bullshit bring up the reasons that it is. Be like, that's ****ing retarded and not even the way it work and give her a small amount of knowledge on why. Don't just go crazy and Trodizzle her with spreadsheets, take it slow be patient. You have your whole like to do this, getting to zealous and overloading her could cause her to push back and accuse you of just making excuses to start a cycle.


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## Beedeezy (Feb 23, 2016)

aaaaaaand..... I've official put too much thought into this. 
You're on your own the rest of the way in terms of the wife.


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

I appreciate it bro honestly it's ashame she won't get on board. Just on the fact that me wanting to run a cycle will not go away and probly just get stronger.


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## dejected dust (Feb 23, 2016)

So here is the next question if any one on here was not going to pin is there an oral only 
cycle you would run.


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## Beedeezy (Feb 23, 2016)

Most everyone will tell you to start at one drug and dosage.
500mg test ONLY
Make sure you have EVERYTHING before you start anything.
Enough of the compound you're using plus a little extra to account for you breaking a vial or something along those lines, AI, HCG, PCT.
Check out the stickies regarding a first cycle and pinning. They contain everything you would every want or need, and allow you to come up with questions of anything they didn't address.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 23, 2016)

dejected dust said:


> So here is the next question if any one on here was not going to pin is there an oral only
> cycle you would run.


No one here will recommend an oral only cycle for a male. Period.


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## anewguy (Feb 23, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> No one here will recommend an oral only cycle for a male. Period.



Agreed.  Waste of time


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## Beedeezy (Feb 23, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> No one here will recommend an oral only cycle for a male. Period.



Oh shit, I misread his question. That long winded version of telling him to run 500mg test was in response to me reading him wanting to know what his first pinning cycle should be.

Oops, either way what I said is still relevant, asks about an oral only cycle and we will tell you to pin 500mg test lol. 

Oral cycles are not for men. We are not telling you that because we are trying to tell you in order to be a man you have to stick a needle in your ass (although that is true).
We are saying oral only cycles are for women because if they were to run a proper cycle I.e. test at 500mg or any flavor of a test based cycle it would be really bad news and they would not come out on the other side a women still, Just a dude without a dick. As a result women run oral only cycles because they are weaker. You run an oral only cycle you may see a result, but when its all over and those gains fade, your left with the possible endocrine hit that you will regret when you realize you only get so many of them. (them being hits to the endocrine system and still able to recover adequately)

If pinning is not an option for you right now that ok bro, just wait and have patience. We've all said and heard it, "this is a marathon not a sprint". Well its true and too often people get so gunho about getting started they lose sight of what is in the end; "the right choice". 

I'm not infallible to that issue either, I did it too and to be honest. If I could do it all over again I probably would have just stuck to my TRT dose of 100mg a week for a long while, and maybe only now would I be contemplating running my first cycle.
I got on trt after being hypo gonadal for years and not having a good enough doctor to be willing to correct it. By the time I got on trt I had already determined I was gonna cycle and never even gave being at natural test level a long enough chance to see where it could take me. 
As a result, I am someone who could have gotten to my body comp at 600's ng/dl test level but have already run cycles.

Moral of the story, I'm in the category of being someone who was on steroids and doesn't look like it. 
Not everyone will be so honest about that fact here but the guys with RED names are all good dudes and we really do want to steer people in the RIGHT direction, not just tell people to jump on this or that cycle.


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## dejected dust (Feb 24, 2016)

Guys thanks for the input as of right now I just used the money to buy 12 pounds of cellucore protien and 3 30 servings of of bcaas got a great deal came to 180. I figure il get more outta this and keep it while figureing out a REAL cycle. With the rest of the money I'm taking the wife to a night in AC with dinner and comedy show. In all a much better way of spending 300 some odd dollars. Ill keep my boys my liver and my gains longer. In the mean time I'll keep my eyes on these pages and figure this whole thing out. Ill also post my body fat from my physiology lab on Friday just to see my true ffmi I'll post pics and full report (given my prof. Allows me to get it done this Friday) if anyone is curious thanks again guys, my nuts thank you as well.


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## Beedeezy (Feb 24, 2016)

Sounds like a good plan for the time being bud. Good luck and i'll check back to see the report and pics.


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## silvereyes87 (Feb 24, 2016)

Good call man.


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## dejected dust (Feb 26, 2016)

so here it guys disappointed my electronic body impedance test showed 24.4 percent bodyfat. My caliper test had me at 16 so I'm going to go head and asume I'm floating around 20 to 24.4. This was not a cheap hand held on either this was research facility grade. That being said I'm still showing a high ffmi but know it's time to cut. I'm going down to 190 and shooting for 12 at that  weight. This again reinforced not running a cycle especially of DMZ no point of not being able to fully bulk while on. Was hoping to do hydrostatic weight as well but couldn't thanks again guys. Real quick has any one been 20 percent and still seeen abs cause I have blurry abs


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