# Adjusting expectations for HGH Fragment 176-191



## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

*Prologue*
  I've recently started some research experiments regarding certain peptides and I'm eager to share what I'm learning. As the research continues, my results will likely be changed and updated, so I figured that a discussion about the topic would leave me time to assess my results while I continue my research. My intent is to discover the capabilities and limitations of each of the peptides that I'll be investigating in relation to the most applicable uses. 

  Future posts in this line will include my own research assessments of Ipamorelin, ModGRF, IGF1-LR3, PEG MGF and Melanotan II. Some of the research has already been completed, but the results take time to put together in a digestible reading format. If anyone has specific requests for a research post on a specific peptide or peptide combination, and likes the way I do my research, please feel free to request it.

  Though this is a completely informal research session and result posting, I'd like to keep the information halfway organized. I'll be referring to the target of the experimentation as 'subject', and would like to point out in advance that nothing in this post should be misconstrued as medical advice or an advertisement for a particular usage or source of a peptide.

*Research topic
*  This post will be addressing misinformation around the usage of HGH Fragment 176-191 (referred to as 'frag' in this post). During the pre-experimentation research, I read numerous posts citing claims that didn't seem to make any sense about frag. I heard uninformed people quoting uninformed articles that basically stated that frag was GH, and would give outrageous pumps and great musculature. I heard dosage recommendations from the same ill-informed people, and discussions about site injections of frag 'for the best results'. It's hard to make an informed decision when the people advising you are poorly informed themselves, so I intend to set the record straight.


*The rumor mill
*  Growth Hormone Fragment 176-191 refers to a specifically identified segment of the Growth Hormone peptide. To be specific, a peptide is a small protein that is formed from a chain of amino acids in a specific sequence. Researchers identified through experimentation that the 176th to 191st amino acids in the GH sequence were responsible for lypolysis (the death of the fat cell) and the prevention of the formation of adipose tissue. Researchers also determined that this specific sequence was not anabolic and had no direct effect on insulin receptors.

  Forums across the internet are commonly assigning GH attributes to descriptions of Fragment 176-191 and citing warnings about GH when referring to this peptide. True research (actually reading the NIH studies regarding this peptide) shows that these forums are quoting bro-science from people that quoted bro-science. There have actually been no reported side effects (aside from lethargy, which is probably tied to a nutrient deficient diet during the weight loss program) that I have identified when dosages stay between .5mg and 2mg/day. As a matter of fact, during research you might stumble across the same ill-informed but official sounding posts in several different forums talking about Fragment 176-191. 

  The truth is far less dramatic than what you read. This is a very potent fat burner, and nothing more. It will have a limited effect if you put very little effort into fat loss, but if you pair it with intermittent fasting, a keto-diet, or a caloric deficit with intense cardio you can get incredible results over a relatively short period of time. Don't think you'll take one course and be ready for a banana hammock and stage lighting, but it's potent and a great tool in pursuit of a truly built body.

*The research*

  Control - Subject entered dosage phase with moderate loose adipose tissue covering the abdominal muscles (estimated around 3/4" depth around navel). Subcutaneous fat layer at the obliques were around 3/8-1/2". Minor oblique definition was observed at the pelvic ligament connection. Pectoral muscle edges could be classified as faded, without definition though pectoral size shows a history of regular stimulation. Fatty tissue collection around the lower exterior section of the pectoral muscle was present, but not in amounts that could be classified as gynomastia. Little visible vascularity was noticed with only major veins and vessels visible in soft skin areas (inner elbow). 

  Course 1 - Subject started with twice daily 250mcg subcutaneous abdominal administrations of Fragment 176-191 for two weeks while following an 18 hour/day intermittent fasting program. Subject continued a no cardiovascular exercise routine at the gym, focusing on continued upper body development and shoulder rehabilitation during administration period. Resistance training could be classified as fasted training. Prior to this course, intermittent fasting and resistance training had prevented further adipose tissue collection but had not reduced the noted stores in the body. 

  Course 1 Initial impressions - Subject found subcutaneous abdominal injections to cause minor nausea. Subject did not notice any soreness or reaction at the injection site. After two weeks at these doses, subject presents with visible improvement in pectoral and abdominal musculature. Visual assessment was done after hypertrophy had faded. Findings indicate that the effect of the frag on adipose tissue seems to free up nutrients for the muscle growth caused by resistance training. Though increased nutrient availability was impressive, the fat burning was the most obvious effect. Improvements over this period were slight, but promising. Subject claims that the layer of adipose tissue has been present for his entire life, and he is impressed that it has decreased, even if marginally.

  Course 2 - Subject was moved to 5x 250mcg subcutaneous injections in alternated medial deltoids (much closer to shallow intramuscular injection than subcutaneous). Injection frequency was increased to five times per day due to experiences during the course 1 trials. Researcher theorized that limited effects at 2x daily dosing was due to the body's ability to metabolize peptides suspended in bacteriostatic water. The effects of frag seem to be directly linked to the amount of time that it is available in the body. Bro-science and common informal research reports seemed to indicate a window of 3 hours of effectiveness after injection, so the 5x 250mcg was developed with 3 hour intervals during waking periods to optimize effective operating time of the frag. Daily protocol ends with fasted resistance training.

Course 2 Initial impressions - Subject complained of what can only be described as 'flushing', but not in the typical sense of the word. At this higher dose, subject experienced liquid stool near the end of every 3 hour window. Theories could include that the increased in melted fat creates a nutrient rich environment, resulting in the somewhat violent rejection of unused nutrients. Subject intends to continue Course 2 to completion to see if dietary changes can overcome the issue. Subject exhibited increased loss of fatty tissue within 48 hours of the new protocol. Most notably, the frag seems to have attacked what is termed 'heart attack fat', which is the organ-bound fatty tissue that causes an enlarged abdominal cavity. This effect is classified as an educated guess, as there is no MRI to substantiate this claim. Evidence that pointed to this effect was a decrease in protrusion of the abdominal muscles, with subcutaneous and exterior abdominal fat experiencing a noticeable increase in fat reduction speed within the initial two days of injections. (Speed increase is subjectively estimated. Weight based assessment is not available as it is impossible to separate fat weight loss from muscle weight gain) Course 2 assessment is ongoing, and will continue until 12 June 2018. 

Course 3 planning stages - Researcher intent is to investigate immediate effects of adding GHRP and GHRH to Frag protocol. Specifically, to assist in weight loss, Ipamorelin and ModGRF will be added in to the Frag diet. Dosing will be adjusted to 200mcg frag, 100mcg ipamorelin and 100mcg ModGRF. Pre-course research indicates half-life of Ipamorelin to be close to 3 hours, so dose timing will be decreased to 3x daily (every 6 hours) to prevent dosage overlap and try to correct previously described 'flushing'. Researcher intends to find an optimized fat burning combination, and once found intends to amplify effects by adding cardio to the subject's daily routine. Course three will last 18 days before regular cardio is added to the subject's workout routine. Research will extend from 13 June 2018 to 30 June 2018. Results will be posted here. Interval images will be taken and stored for information purposes. Course 3 will run concurrent with an experiment involving Melanotan 2, so images and dosing schedule will be posted alongside course 3 results and impressions depending on forum rules (new member here). 

*Preliminary conclusions*

  GH Fragment 176-191 is definitely involved in the metabolizing of fat, and the effects are visible and fairly dramatic within a short study period. Usage and dosage is flexible, and the subject's body is the most useful indicator for dosage adjustment. Effects obtained are equivalent to an intense cardio workout in the researcher's opinion, without having the subject involved in intense cardio. Once a proper dosage and mixture is found, weekly documentation updates should provide a baseline by which we can judge how much adding fasted cardio to a properly tested peptide protocol can increase results.


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## stonetag (Jun 9, 2018)

Not another C and P superhero.....


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

Nice to meet you too. What's wrong, this playpen not big enough for the two of us?


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## Jin (Jun 9, 2018)

You want me to read all this? Your first post?

not likely.


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## stonetag (Jun 9, 2018)

TheWatchman0311 said:


> Nice to meet you too. What's wrong, this playpen not big enough for the two of us?



How about an introduction of yourself first, then go from there. Welcome to the UG.


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

Oh, OK. Like AA. Hi, my name's Mike and I have a problem with trying new ways to get my body doped better.

I also like long walks on the beach and anything that goes bang or boom. 

Oh, you meant in the intro section. Right. Get right on it.


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

Great. Glad you guys frequent a discussion board... To discuss... Stuff. But see, my topic explained what I'm talking about. And yeah, it's my first post... Here. Does that mean I'm stupid or under informed? I leave figuring that out in your capable hands.

Peace, fellas.


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

Wait, c&p... Little slow on the uptake after a night shift. You meant copy and paste or Chems and peptides?


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## Bro Bundy (Jun 9, 2018)

expect to have less money in your pocket..


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

Not lying there... Definitely a fact. I'm just lucky enough to have more money than good sense, and a serious love for trying to be less out of shape than I was yesterday without screwing my chemistry up like I did when I was young.


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## Jin (Jun 9, 2018)

TheWatchman0311 said:


> Great. Glad you guys frequent a discussion board... To discuss... Stuff. But see, my topic explained what I'm talking about. And yeah, it's my first post... Here. Does that mean I'm stupid or under informed? I leave figuring that out in your capable hands.
> 
> Peace, fellas.



Gee, thanks for the well written and thought out post on experimental peptides. You are the most magnanimous first time poster ever! So good of you to bless us with your thoughts and well researched conclusions. 

Sorry you cant peddle your useless shit here. 

Now **** off.


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

Peddle? The only thing that I sell is my labor, to fix industrial machines. You have a conveyor or a bagger needs fixed?

See, the way this whole discussion thing works is I bring my unique ideas and experience, and you bring your unique ideas and experience, and either one or both of us learns something ... And then maybe I figure out someday down the line why you've got a hard-on for people that actually say something with their first post...


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## Spongy (Jun 9, 2018)

TheWatchman0311 said:


> Great. Glad you guys frequent a discussion board... To discuss... Stuff. But see, my topic explained what I'm talking about. And yeah, it's my first post... Here. Does that mean I'm stupid or under informed? I leave figuring that out in your capable hands.
> 
> Peace, fellas.



It doesn't mean you're uninformed or under informed.  It does make you socially stupid though.  This is the equivalent of going to the gym and walking up to a group of guys and girls that you don't know, on your first day, and saying "so I've been injecting an unregulated substance into my body with no real scientific measures but am trying to make it sound scientific to see what the results are and here's what I've noticed."

You're absolutely more than welcome here and more than welcome to post your findings, but your approach is going to leave a poor taste in some people's mouths, understandably.  

We get a ton of shills for peptide companies and the like, and your post and responses follows the shill playbook almost to a T.  So you're either a shill or you are actually trying to post something useful and had an incredibly unfortunate approach.


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## Jin (Jun 9, 2018)

TheWatchman0311 said:


> Peddle? The only thing that I sell is my labor, to fix industrial machines. You have a conveyor or a bagger needs fixed?
> 
> See, the way this whole discussion thing works is I bring my unique ideas and experience, and you bring your unique ideas and experience, and either one or both of us learns something ... And then maybe I figure out someday down the line why you've got a hard-on for people that actually say something with their first post...



Maybe this is the first board you've posted on? Because 99.5% of the time, first posts likes yours = scammer. 

If you want to be a part of this community you don't walk into our house without introducing yourself and just start spouting off "facts".


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## Trump (Jun 9, 2018)

I got 3 bottles of ghrp-6 for sale if anyone interested &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

Definitely the first board i've posted on. My reason for doing so is "Hey, here's what I'm doing and how I'm doing it and the results I'm finding." Answers can range from "Bro, you're wasting your time" to "Nah, man, you're doing it wrong" to "Hell, I have no clue what this stuff is about and I'll read it".

As a way of introduction, I figured a Hello leaves a lot unsaid. And if I was peddling something, I probably wouldn't put in there that at certain doses that stuff could be re-branded as colon cleanse.

That being said, I had an uneventful 12 hour nightshift with way too much time to think about this stuff, and wanted to learn more and start a conversation that might take my knowledge about this unregulated stuff into a better place. I'm messing with it because the reviews on it are so diverse, and nobody seems to have a straight up answer about it... As for trying to make it all research oriented, I was a bit hesitant about coming on here and just laying it all out there. A few years back a buddy of mine went down super f'in hard for talking too specifically about stuff. Though this isn't exactly the same stuff, I'm hesitant to write anything that can be specifically used against me if I can get around it.


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## Spongy (Jun 9, 2018)

I get it.  Now go post an actual intro.  Yes, intros leave a lot unsaid but taking the time to do so goes a LONG way.


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## TheWatchman0311 (Jun 9, 2018)

You're right. They do go a long way, especially when the rules of the board are posted at the top... When I signed up, there was a page that had forum rules on it that needed a check mark on it to continue. I was extremely surprised that they were as limited as they appeared, now I know why. 

Tell you what, it seems that the only thing I've learned here is that I was right for being a ****in lurker my whole life. I guess with enough variations and combinations I can dope out the best shot for the effects I'm looking for. Lemme figure out how to delete the post and account instead. Take care now, fellas...


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## Jin (Jun 9, 2018)

TheWatchman0311 said:


> You're right. They do go a long way, especially when the rules of the board are posted at the top... When I signed up, there was a page that had forum rules on it that needed a check mark on it to continue. I was extremely surprised that they were as limited as they appeared, now I know why.
> 
> Tell you what, it seems that the only thing I've learned here is that I was right for being a ****in lurker my whole life. I guess with enough variations and combinations I can dope out the best shot for the effects I'm looking for. Lemme figure out how to delete the post and account instead. Take care now, fellas...



Awwww! Don't go!!!!!!


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## Spongy (Jun 9, 2018)

lol, ok.  I was honestly giving you a direction to move in and the benefit of the doubt, but that's cool.

FYI you can't delete your account or post.  I can, but I see no reason to.

Nobody here is going to chastise you for posting your results or findings.  

If you really were a lurker you would know anyone who posts something like this, especially about a peptide, is going to get a sour welcome.


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## Mythos (Jun 10, 2018)

TheWatchman0311 said:


> You're right. They do go a long way, especially when the rules of the board are posted at the top... When I signed up, there was a page that had forum rules on it that needed a check mark on it to continue. I was extremely surprised that they were as limited as they appeared, now I know why.
> 
> Tell you what, it seems that the only thing I've learned here is that I was right for being a ****in lurker my whole life. I guess with enough variations and combinations I can dope out the best shot for the effects I'm looking for. Lemme figure out how to delete the post and account instead. Take care now, fellas...



Damn, does GH Frag also make you really emotional and prone to guilt tripping people because I think my ex girlfriend may be on that shi7 too.


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