# Starting self prescribed TRT



## Rumpy

I’m 45 and considering TRT.  I have cycled before but I’ve never checked my test levels.  I know they’re low, I’ve been feeling the symptoms for a few years now, including before I ever cycled.  In fact it was feeling low that first got me interested in cycling.  I know TRT is a one way street, once started you cannot just stop and return to your old levels, but if your old levels suck, why would you want to.  I simply cannot afford to go with a private clinic and from what I’ve heard, finding a doctor that will write a script and let you self inject is pretty rare, so this leaves self prescribed, which is what I’m considering.  I’m just finishing PCT from my last cycle, so I don’t think there’s any point in getting bloods done right now, I could wait a few months, but if I’m going to commit to it, what difference does it make.  My plan is to start with 150mg/week of cyp and get bloods done after about 1-2 months to see where my levels are.   I will also likely run 100mg of deca with it.  It’s my understanding that adding deca will not effect blood results, is that correct?  At this point I would like to get my level to 1000-1500.  I’ve run a Test/NPP cycle with adex and prami, but I’m not sure how to dose them for TRT levels.  Are they needed?  Can I get by without using any until my blood test (Assuming no obvious gyno signs).  I will probably run HCG for 10 weeks every few months.  I may wait and discuss this with my normal family doctor, but I’m sure he would not just send me home to pin myself, so aside from asking him what he thinks about TRT, is there any point in telling him anything?  I know coventional wisdom is to say nothing, and as long as I’m at TRT levels I don’t see why he would think anything was up.

In short, my questions are:
OK to start without a blood test?
Is 150 test 100 deca a good starting point?
How long until first blood test?
Do I tell my normal doc anything?
Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.


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## sfstud33

Dude - do a blood test first to see where you are at. 

If you TRT you are going to have to do blood tests every three or four months to monitor your health. Just because you feel awesome doesn't mean whats happening on your insides is awesome. If you are going to be changing your body's testosterone levels then it is going to have flow through effects. You need to be on top of that. Otherwise you could have health issues that start showing up in 10 or 15 years time.


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## Rumpy

Like I said, I'm not quite finished with PCT from my last cycle, so are my levels relevant right now?  I could wait a few months and test, before starting, but I don't see what that would change.  I plan on doing hormone panels 2-3 times a year after I'm on, the question is weather it's worth doing one now or waiting a few months to do one.


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## gymrat827

first get rid of deca or NPP.  the only things id consider to run with TRT would be 25mg proviron or 100mg masteron.  Both for the SHBG levels.  

Id try pct, id get monthly blood tests so you know where you stand month to month.  If you cannot recover id try the self scripted hrt/trt. I think you need to try clomid, do more reading + research on TRT it self, get another blood test in 2wks or 10 days after your last pin and than re asses things.

more knowledge (about TRT and your hormones is needed for a good decision)

my boss at work takes a lil extra TRT (75mg/wk) from a good friend.  hes happy, bloods are good, his doc thinks hes in great shape, All good in the hood.


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## creekrat

Most definitely need baseline bloodwork.There is more to it than just pinning some test.  You need to monitor LH, FSH, PSA, estradiol, progesterone, shbg, dhea, lipids, just to name a few.  People seem to forget about free test levels.  This is the workhorse that gets the job done.  Most of our testosterone is bound to either shbg or albumin and what small percentage is left over is the magic potion.  Why do you want to run deca? Do you have joint issues or just feel like running it?  I would not tell your dr anything since this will be unsupervised.  Your current levels are garbage.  Wait a few months after pct and get bloods then.  At that point your HPTA will be as recovered as it is going to get and this will be far more accurate.  Once you do start, i would wait about 6-8 weeks and get bloodwork done again to see where you are at.  

Can i ask why you want to do it unsupervised?


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## Rumpy

Thank you all for the feedback.  I am aware that there are many things that need to be monitored, as I said I plan to run full hormone panels to check all of them.  I'm currently running 50 clomid and 20 nolva after my last Test/NPP cycle.  Yes, Deca is for joints.  Just to clarify things, I've been considering TRT for quite some time, this is not just a knee jerk reaction to coming off cycle or not recovering well.  I started PCT with the intent of coming off for 6 months before cycling again, but I was planning to stay on after my next cycle.  The more I think about it, the less reason I see to wait.  If I'm going to make the commitment to it, I might as well do it now rather than next year.  I see no advantage to waiting, other than to get a blood test after I've recovered.  As for going unsupervised, that's purely a financial decision.

Just to recap, everyone agrees that doing a blood test right now (on PCT) is meaningless, but doing one in a few months, before starting TRT is worth the wait.


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## Hero Swole

Even on a trt does over time shit is gunna get out of wack. People take supplements and vitamins to help keep certain thing under control. Also id recommend to donate blood regularly. Your bp can go up even on low dose of trt. Keep that in mind. Its not as easy as youd think id safe as a last resort.


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## Rumpy

Yes, I'm aware of high RBC and hematocrit concerns.  Can anyone suggest any other resources for information?


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## bronco

Rumpy said:


> Thank you all for the feedback.  I am aware that there are many things that need to be monitored, as I said I plan to run full hormone panels to check all of them.  I'm currently running 50 clomid and 20 nolva after my last Test/NPP cycle.  Yes, Deca is for joints.  Just to clarify things, I've been considering TRT for quite some time, this is not just a knee jerk reaction to coming off cycle or not recovering well.  I started PCT with the intent of coming off for 6 months before cycling again, but I was planning to stay on after my next cycle.  The more I think about it, the less reason I see to wait.  If I'm going to make the commitment to it, I might as well do it now rather than next year.  I see no advantage to waiting, other than to get a blood test after I've recovered.  As for going unsupervised, that's purely a financial decision.
> 
> Just to recap, everyone agrees that doing a blood test right now (on PCT) is meaningless, but doing one in a few months, before starting TRT is worth the wait.



YES... It would be best to wait 3 or 4 wks after last pct dose to get bloods


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## Rumpy

Thank you Bronco.  I'm re-reading Crislers paper again.  I'm due for a metabolic panel with my PCP in that time frame, so I may ask him to add them on instead of doing medlabs, but of course that will invite the discussion as to why.


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## bronco

Rumpy said:


> Thank you Bronco.  I'm re-reading Crislers paper again.  I'm due for a metabolic panel with my PCP in that time frame, so I may ask him to add them on instead of doing medlabs, but of course that will invite the discussion as to why.



Unless you have some really good insurance I would just go with labcorp, its very easy and not expensive at all


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## Rumpy

No, my insurance sucks.  That's why I'm looking at doing it on my own.  I priced out Test Cyp at a few pharmacies and it's many times more expensive than what I'm currently paying.  Right now I pay out of pocket for CMP tests every six months.  I have no idea what a full hormone panel would be through their office.  Which labcorp test do you recommend?  I mean as a minimum.  Crisler has a pretty long list of tests.


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## bronco

I copied this from another forum.

For anyone thinking about getting bloods done, give this a shot.

"Here is the trick. Go to privatemdlabs.com and select the hormone panel for females. This test comes with a CMP (liver, kidney values and more), CBC (blood counts), total Testosterone, total Estrogen, LH and FSH.

I have done this a few times before and all your reference ranges come back based on males once you enter in all the info that the lab co wants.

Also use the discount code ______ (search internet for current discount codes, can usually find a 15% off). Total should come to roughly 50 dollars.

They use labcorp so just select a location nearest you. You can also make an appointment to have blood drawn, which many people don't know. Just go to their website (labcorp) to do so after you paid for the bloodwork.

If you go on a weekday (except friday) you will have your results emailed to you the next day most likely as they are that fast as effff!!!!

The only thing missing is a lipid profile, which you could add on if you so choose.


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## bronco

Rumpy said:


> No, my insurance sucks.  That's why I'm looking at doing it on my own.  I priced out Test Cyp at a few pharmacies and it's many times more expensive than what I'm currently paying.  Right now I pay out of pocket for CMP tests every six months.  I have no idea what a full hormone panel would be through their office.  Which labcorp test do you recommend?  I mean as a minimum.  Crisler has a pretty long list of tests.



If you do choose labcorp let me know before you order your test, me or someone else should have a 10 or 15% discount code


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## Rumpy

Thank you again Bronco.  Yes, I have heard of doing the female panel because it's cheaper.  I think it's missing a few of Crisler's recommended tests, including free test, SHBG, PSA and IGF.  Not sure how important they are.  It looks like you have to get up into the $300+ range to get all of them.  Like I said, I get metabolics and lipids with my Doc so I don't need those with labcorp.  I think I will plan to just do the female to start, but I'll give it a month before I do.


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## Rumpy

I've always used adex on cycle, are their any special considerations for TRT?  Is aromasin better?


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## DocDePanda187123

I would definitely wait at least 3-4wks after completing PCT before getting bloods drawn Rumpy.


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## Rumpy

Do you think 3 weeks is enough?  Are thing pretty stable by then or is longer better


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## bronco

Rumpy said:


> Do you think 3 weeks is enough?  Are thing pretty stable by then or is longer better



I think age, length of cycle, and what gear you used on cycle play a role in how fast you recover, me personally I wait 5 wks after last pct dose to get blood work done


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## DocDePanda187123

Rumpy said:


> Do you think 3 weeks is enough?  Are thing pretty stable by then or is longer better



Personally I don't think it is but I would absolutely go no less than that. Clomid and Nolva both have relatively long half lives and will stay in your system for a bit. Them there's the fact that recovery isn't necessarily finished when PCT ends, it might take a few more weeks after. And another thing is that after PCT you may have artificially high serum testosterone and LH levels until the effects of clomid wear off plus you want to gauge recovery by seeing if you're able to sustain your T levels, not just check them right after PCT. After all that, along with taking into account Austinite's recommendations, I'd wait 6-8wks possibly longer to get true panels.


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## DF

You may not even need an AI with your trt dose.  I stopped using an AI on trt & estrogen is fine unless I blast of course.


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## TheLupinator

You wanna wait for the nolva/clomid to clear to see where your test levels are w/o help from a SERM, you need to wait 6wks or longer.


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## mlitt12345

Rumpy said:


> I've always used adex on cycle, are their any special considerations for TRT?  Is aromasin better?



Rumpy everyone is different so you will need a blood test like others have mentioned to dial in your E2 while on trt if needed. My current supervised protocol I take 200mg Tcyp a week, HCG 500ius twice a wk, .25mg Adex twice a wk. My Total T is in the 1100s and my E2 is around 28. I was getn bloods done every 3 months but now that I'm dialed in I get bloods done every 6 months. I also donate blood every 3 months to help lower RBC count.


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## Rumpy

OK, quick update.  All of you that thought 3 weeks after PCT was too soon were correct.  I did a PrivatMD test yesterday, 23 days after last clomid and values came back high.  LH was 8.8 and test was 768.  Looks like I just need to chill the fuk out and wait a little longer.  I'll try again in another 3-4 weeks.


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## DF

Rumpy said:


> OK, quick update.  All of you that thought 3 weeks after PCT was too soon were correct.  I did a PrivatMD test yesterday, 23 days after last clomid and values came back high.  LH was 8.8 and test was 768.  Looks like I just need to chill the fuk out and wait a little longer.  I'll try again in another 3-4 weeks.



Keep us posted.  I'd like to know how you make out.


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## Rumpy

New blood test yesterday, just got the results.  This is about 14 weeks after cycle and 8 weeks after PCT.

Total Test 481
LH 3.3
FSH 4.2

I'm 45, it looks like I should be around 600, 480 looks good for a 70 year old, But I'm guessing 480 is too high for most docs to prescribe TRT.  I'm just starting a new cycle, a longer test/deca one, so I guess I'll see where I'm at after that.  Still not sure if I'm going to PCT or cruise after this one.


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## halfwit

Rumpy said:


> New blood test yesterday, just got the results.  This is about 14 weeks after cycle and 8 weeks after PCT.
> 
> Total Test 481
> LH 3.3
> FSH 4.2
> 
> I'm 45, it looks like I should be around 600, 480 looks good for a 70 year old, But I'm guessing 480 is too high for most docs to prescribe TRT.  I'm just starting a new cycle, a longer test/deca one, so I guess I'll see where I'm at after that.  Still not sure if I'm going to PBT or cruise after this one.


There's that baseline we've been looking for!  

There are other options besides a PCP that will be skittish when it comes to prescribing TRT for guys that are in the "normal" range.  I have mixed feelings about your total test as that is lower than I would want to be personally, but you also aren't at a range that you HAVE to pin for the rest of your life either.

I guess the ultimate question is _how do you feel_?  I know you are well-versed in the symptoms of low T, so if you think you would honestly benefit from TRT, and are willing to accept the consequences of permanently shutting yourself down, go for it.  You can always get in touch with a wellness clinic and go from there.  Sure it costs more, but you do tend to get what you pay for.  

My .02c


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## Rumpy

Right now I cannot afford a clinic.  I'm 45, I have my kid, my levels are a little low, so I don't see that I have that much to loose.  Some days I really feel like something stuck in Docs ass hair, but on cycle I feel great, in every way, so I'm really looking at it as a quality of life decision.  I would like a script for when I travel, but that's about it.

Right now I'm planning an 18 week test deca run, not sure what my exit will be.  I'm not happy where I'm at naturally, so I'm not too worried about doing further damage to my natty levels.


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## Maintenance Man

I'm interested to see where this goes from here. In your circumstances it seems much easier to pick one over the other. There's not much it seems to lose for you when u do the comparison of what you're looking for and want. 

I say natural levels be damned if quality of life is still affected.


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## Rumpy

I just can't keep up with Cap, sexually I mean, like I can on cycle


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## Maintenance Man

Rumpy said:


> I just can't keep up with Cap, sexually I mean, like I can on cycle



He's young, don't fault yourself. He's built for that shit. Of course now that he's bulking his cardio might be knocked down a peg or 2


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## ImDennis

i ditched my doc also, never there, seems to work for 2 weeks and then go on vacation for 2... bullsht, so i just shoot 250mg of test ew 1 shot aml


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## mrSlate

I really like the quality of life aspect you brought to the table Rumpy! I mean how many men are walking around with levels of a 90 year old and it's normal to them?


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