# Very high ALT/AST levels



## inscnmya (Feb 2, 2016)

Hello everyone,

Long story short, I have been on for about a year. I have been cruising for the last 5 months.

I got these tests done a week ago. I inject 250mg's of Sustanon per week, and these tests were specifically done by me after two weeks of Sustanon abstinence. That's why the testosterone levels are low. I haven't used any oral steroid before (I have, but didn't finish the cycle because I didn't like them, maximum duration of use was five days).

Everything seems fine, EXCEPT my ALT and AST levels. I feel very normal though. Like probably the most normal and healthy I felt in a while. Wtf is going on? Should I be worried?

I have TUDCA on hand, should I start using it? If yes, is 500mg enough? How much do you guys think I should use?




What do you guys think?

Tips/suggestions will be appreciated.


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## NbleSavage (Feb 2, 2016)

How soon after training did you get the blood draw? Strenuous exercise has been shown to elevate AST / ALT

References:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3104191/

As per liver health, I use and recommend Synthergine. Keeps my AST / ALT in a healthy range even on the harshest of cycles (and no, I'm not a rep - just been using their shite for a long time and it works well for me). 

Tudca is good also. 500 Mg per day. Mix in one or both of the above, reschedule blood work for 30 days after you've started the new regime and try to schedule the test for after you've had a day or two out of the gym.

Cheers, 

- Savage


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 2, 2016)

You were off the sustanon ok but were you on anything else? Any AI, SERM, OTC or Rx meds like Advil, Tylenol, Aleve, any alcoholic drinks, etc? TUDCA can be effective at treating obstructive jaundice or primary biliary cirrhosis but it's not effective at treating AAS-induced hepatic changes.


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## inscnmya (Feb 2, 2016)

I take .5mg's of Arimidex every three days, I take 1mg of Propecia (finasteride) every day.

I drank two glasses of red wine before the test day at a dinner. Maybe that made the results like this?

I hadn't trained in a week when I got these labs done. I really don't think it's workout related...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 2, 2016)

inscnmya said:


> I take .5mg's of Arimidex every three days, I take 1mg of Propecia (finasteride) every day.
> 
> I drank two glasses of red wine before the test day at a dinner. Maybe that made the results like this?
> 
> I hadn't trained in a week when I got these labs done. I really don't think it's workout related...



Most likely the result of taking propecia....


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## inscnmya (Feb 2, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Most likely the result of taking propecia....



When do you think I should get myself tested again?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 2, 2016)

inscnmya said:


> When do you think I should get myself tested again?



Tested for what specifically? Your liver?


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## inscnmya (Feb 2, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Tested for what specifically? Your liver?



Yes. I also wanna test for hepatitis too. I am def going to include GGT in my tests as well.

Should I be freaking out about this?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 2, 2016)

inscnmya said:


> Yes. I also wanna test for hepatitis too. I am def going to include GGT in my tests as well.
> 
> Should I be freaking out about this?



IMO, so long as you're taking propecia your liver enzyme values will be elevated. I don't think it manifests into clinical complications but the elevations are still there. Is your doctor worried about the elevations? Those aren't sky high levels and I'd want to see if it's just an acute elevation or chronic before beginning to worry. 

Hepatitis testing is done through testing for hepatitis antibodies. Your liver values can help in treatment or diagnosis but aren't he sole  relevant labs needed. I'd give it a month or two before testing again and consider coming off the propecia for a little bit to see if that's the cause.


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## Rumpy (Feb 2, 2016)

Although ALT is usually associated with the liver, it can also come from muscle.  You could add CPK to your next labs just to be sure, but I agree with Doc, it's most likely from the propecia.  I assume the propecia is not script from your Dr because they should be watching your bloodwork.  Stop taking it for a month or two and get more BW done


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## hulksmash (Feb 2, 2016)

Whatever oral INCLUDING NSAID plus all the DAMN WINE

Cut that shit out

Related topic: This is why I'm strongly against oral use


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## BiologicalChemist (Feb 3, 2016)

I take propecia 1mg daily and it doesn't affect my liver enzyme levels at all. It could be the red wine + NSAIDS, assuming you're not on any orals or don't have a past with abusing them or alcohol..or any other drug for that matter. I'm guessing your doc is going to look into it right?...and yeah TUDCA will help start taking it, 1500mg is best & don't drink alcohol on TUDCA.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 3, 2016)

BiologicalChemist said:


> I take propecia 1mg daily and it doesn't affect my liver enzyme levels at all. It could be the red wine + NSAIDS, assuming you're not on any orals or don't have a past with abusing them or alcohol..or any other drug for that matter. I'm guessing your doc is going to look into it right?...and yeah TUDCA will help start taking it, 1500mg is best & don't drink alcohol on TUDCA.



TUDCA is only helpful for specific liver problems.


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## BiologicalChemist (Feb 3, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> TUDCA is only helpful for specific liver problems.



Sure, mainly cholestasis related liver disease..but it still lowers liver enzymes.


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## hulksmash (Feb 3, 2016)

BiologicalChemist said:


> Sure, mainly cholestasis related liver disease..but it still lowers liver enzymes.



Heres the thing I said several moons ago, and Doc was in that thread too

Don't you think something that uses the liver (e.g. liver supplements) increases liver enzyme levels?

Nothing really helps or totally lowers your enzyme levels except cessation from the thing that raises them or uses the liver.


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## hulksmash (Feb 3, 2016)

inscnmya said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Long story short, I have been on for about a year. I have been cruising for the last 5 months.
> 
> ...



You've been drinking or taking a lot of NSAIDs or something else that you're not saying that's processed by the liver

I did the same by saying I drank less than I did on here years ago, pain medicine, etc

ast/alt was be a little high during that time

none of my business, but to fix this, stop all the oral shit you're doing and drinking if that's included


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## inscnmya (Jul 29, 2016)

Hey guys, I forgot to update... Sorry for that.

I got tested 4 weeks after and off Propecia and my numbers all came back normal.


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## Black Beard (Jul 30, 2016)

Aromatase inhibitors, 5-alpha reductase inhibitors(propecia), alcohol, and yeah, even training, can elevated AST/ALT.


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