# protein intake



## Malevolence (Jan 7, 2014)

I have been reading some new stuff about protein intake and wanted some opinions from here.  the article stated that around .8gs per lb was sufficient during bulking.  I cant believe that this is the same while using AAS.  They used phrase like " Genetic limit". So any way I try to get about 1.5gs per lb.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 7, 2014)

Malevolence said:


> I have been reading some new stuff about protein intake and wanted some opinions from here.  the article stated that around .8gs per lb was sufficient during bulking.  I cant believe that this is the same while using AAS.  They used phrase like " Genetic limit". So any way I try to get about 1.5gs per lb.



Key word is sufficient. AAS increases protein synthesis so it makes sense the body can use more on a cycle than off cycle but this doesn't mean you should increase protein consumption to the detriment of the other macros.


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## SAD (Jan 7, 2014)

Bulking?  Eat tons of whole food meats, veggies, roots (sweet and white potatoes), white rice, fats of all kinds, etc.

This isn't an exact science.  Drop shakes unless you absolutely cannot eat whole food.  Qdoba makes bulking a cinch.....

To answer your incredibly general question, AAS increases protein synthesis as does weight training, so you tell me if .8g/lb for an elderly non-trained group applies to us.....


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## mabdelrasoul (Jan 7, 2014)

^^^ agree with sad.


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## Stevethedream (Jan 7, 2014)

Yea I usually take in at 50g of protein per meal. I eat anywhere between 6-8 meals a day and 3 of them are whey protein shakes. I feel if I have a good 4 whole meals in than my additional shakes r just an added bonus. Shakes r usually pre and post workout and sometimes b4 bed which of course would be a casein protein. So yea I probably would stick to the 1.5g per lb and see where that takes u bro. Good luck


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## SAD (Jan 7, 2014)

Whey shakes are not meals.


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## animal87 (Jan 7, 2014)

I always eat 50g or more per meal. On cycle I eat more your metabolism and protein synthesis are higher than off.  On cycle I eat 60-70 grams per meal 7 times a day and have a shake before bed 40 grams whey and 60 casien.  But I weigh alot and I don't compete in body building so a little fat doesn't bother me.


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## Tren4Life (Jan 7, 2014)

SAD said:


> Whey shakes are not meals.



And they give me nasty gas. 
I stick to whole food nowadays myself. I shake after my workout is enough for me.


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## jennerrator (Jan 7, 2014)

I have always kept protein high off or on cycle but that's my preference, high P, moderate fats and low carb...does my body good


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## Joliver (Jan 7, 2014)

I try to eat 3-4 meals per day, but sometimes it doesn't quite happen.  When I cant get it, I drink protein/weight gain shakes. 

Each shake contains 75 grams of protein (whey/milk/egg), 100 grams of carbs, 20 grams of medium chain triglyceride fats.  I can't understand why this doesn't count as a meal


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## Pinkbear (Jan 7, 2014)

You guys worry to much about "numbers" get stuff your face with protein everyday all day weather your bulking or cutting. EAT MEAT!


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## Stevethedream (Jan 7, 2014)

joliver said:


> I try to eat 3-4 meals per day, but sometimes it doesn't quite happen.  When I cant get it, I drink protein/weight gain shakes.
> 
> Each shake contains 75 grams of protein (whey/milk/egg), 100 grams of carbs, 20 grams of medium chain triglyceride fats.  I can't understand why this doesn't count as a meal



Joliver I think Sad meant Whey protein shakes bud. I would think yours definitely passes more for a meal than my whey shake.


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## transcend2007 (Jan 7, 2014)

You have to been careful when reading new info.  I have found I never change anything that I know that works for me over time.  I am open to new information but skeptical at the same time.

Unfortunately many times there is agenda behind certain articles and even the publications they are printed in.  

My example would be coffee.  Every year conflicting articles comes out some positive some negative.

As for protein my personal belief is the more of you can get from food sources the better and less from shakes.  When on cycle I definitely increase the amount of protein per lb as IMO its better to run slightly higher than less than would be needed to gain mass.


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## Malevolence (Jan 7, 2014)

Kinda what I figured I jam food down all day long and shakes just after workout


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## mrSlate (Jan 7, 2014)

Then their is the how much protein per meal question? Also is the protein synthesized directly proportional to the amount of aas used i.e Trt dose vs. supra physiological dose?


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## SAD (Jan 7, 2014)

joliver said:


> I try to eat 3-4 meals per day, but sometimes it doesn't quite happen.  When I cant get it, I drink protein/weight gain shakes.
> 
> Each shake contains 75 grams of protein (whey/milk/egg), 100 grams of carbs, 20 grams of medium chain triglyceride fats.  I can't understand why this doesn't count as a meal





Stevethedream said:


> Joliver I think Sad meant Whey protein shakes bud. I would think yours definitely passes more for a meal than my whey shake.




Yes and no.  I was referring to whey-only shakes as stevethedream had mentioned, but even your shake, Joliver, is still just a shake.  It's not a whole food meal and you would not (but probably could) live on those shake-meals alone.  Now blending spinach and chicken breast and sweet potatoes into a shake is a different story.  Think connective tissues, growth factors, carb source (you're probably using waxy maize or dextrose but even vitargo and karbolyn aren't the same as a blended sweet potato), balanced animal fats, etc.

Shakes are not, and never will, replace or be as good as whole food.  They are called supplements for a reason, as they should supplement, but not replace, a quality whole food diet.

I never looked better or made bigger jumps in mass than when I stopped spending $400/month on supps and started using that money for food instead.  Game changer equivalent to AAS vs. natty, in my experience.




mrSlate said:


> Then their is the how much protein per meal question? Also is the protein synthesized directly proportional to the amount of aas used i.e Trt dose vs. supra physiological dose?




General rule of thumb, ~20-25g per hour natty, ~35-40g per hour on gear (and yes it's proportional up to a certain dose).  That means if you are having a hydrolyzed whey protein shake mixed with water only, and the digestion time is roughly 45 minutes, then 15-20g is all you would want if you're natty (anything over that is converted to glucose by the liver).

But if you are having whole food meals (coming back full circle!) then don't even count it, because it takes so long to digest that I doubt you can slam enough steak to not use it all for it's intended purpose.  I've read somewhere that red meat can still be digesting up to 10 hours later.  Anyone down for a 400g protein T-bone?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 7, 2014)

SAD said:


> Yes and no.  I was referring to whey-only shakes as stevethedream had mentioned, but even your shake, Joliver, is still just a shake.  It's not a whole food meal and you would not (but probably could) live on those shake-meals alone.  Now blending spinach and chicken breast and sweet potatoes into a shake is a different story.  Think connective tissues, growth factors, carb source (you're probably using waxy maize or dextrose but even vitargo and karbolyn aren't the same as a blended sweet potato), balanced animal fats, etc.
> 
> Shakes are not, and never will, replace or be as good as whole food.  They are called supplements for a reason, as they should supplement, but not replace, a quality whole food diet.
> 
> ...



Are there any references to any of these figures?


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## SAD (Jan 7, 2014)

No. There isn't.  At least not that I have time to find again.  Check meso and search posts by Mayo as I think that is who I learned it from and he had the appropriate credentials and references.

If you can prove me wrong, I'll look at it, but I've found these numbers to be pretty darn accurate over the years since I adopted them as truth (as judged by weight gain, bubble gut, and steak in my puke 10 hours after I ate it, lol).

Not trying to slough off your obvious desire to blast holes in my post, but I've seen it all said (from 8g per hour max, all the way up to triple digits), and if you believe it then that's great.  I'm sharing what I've found to be pretty spot on for myself and the thousands of customers that I've sold supplements to over the years.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 7, 2014)

SAD said:


> No. There isn't.  At least not that I have time to find again.  Check meso and search posts by Mayo as I think that is who I learned it from and he had the appropriate credentials and references.
> 
> If you can prove me wrong, I'll look at it, but I've found these numbers to be pretty darn accurate over the years since I adopted them as truth (as judged by weight gain, bubble gut, and steak in my puke 10 hours after I ate it, lol).
> 
> Not trying to slough off your obvious desire to blast holes in my post, but I've seen it all said (from 8g per hour max, all the way up to triple digits), and if you believe it then that's great.  I'm sharing what I've found to be pretty spot on for myself and the thousands of customers that I've sold supplements to over the years.



It's not so much a desire to blast holes in your post as much as it is to figure out how you came up with these numbers. I'm confused as to what you're saying; are you saying one shouldn't eat more than 30-45g of PRO per hour? Is this a per meal figure? Are you even putting a 'limit' to protein intake? If you are putting a limit as to how much protein to eat per meal or per hour why would you do so?


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 8, 2014)

Btw sad the reason I like doc is because he is a younger browner stoneder version of you


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## Assassin32 (Jan 8, 2014)

I've never really kept track of my protein intake. I just eat a lot of food. I only drink a protein shake after I workout, and I only do that because it's kind of a ritual. I think all those protein powders are probably underdosed and mostly filler and crap. Personally, I like to eat eggs, meat, fish, cottage cheese, greek yogurt and milk to get my protein. I think supplements are a waste of money. But, then again, what the hell do I know.  So.....to each his own.


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## SAD (Jan 8, 2014)

Doc, good response coming when I'm not on my phone.  Good questions that I have answers for.


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## AlphaD (Jan 8, 2014)

This what im talking good actual conversation that is useful to those who read.


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## Seeker (Jan 8, 2014)

For lifters and and bodybuilders protein is of prime importance as it is the main building material for muscle tissue. We all know this already, but also because it's the easiest nutrient to plan a diet. It is for me anyway.
The "basic" rule is that protein intake for individuals with a lean and musculature physique goal should be at LEAST 1.0g per pound of body weight. This is the minimum that you should take in each day to get the best possible results. However, other amounts are better suited depending on ones situation and goals.

I follow a pretty simple format that works for me. Now this format is while on the sauce mind you. 

Mass gaining phase : 1.75 - 2.0g per pound
Maintainence phase: 1.5 - 1.75g per pound
Fat loss phase : 1.75 - 2.g per pound

I Have learned that when you are in a fat loss phase you should increase your protein regardless if you are natty or juicing. During a caloric deficit the added protein will have an anti catabolic effect. If one is cutting carbs, the added protein can be used to produce glucose. A process called neoglucogenesis. ( I think I spelled that right )?  Normally the body would breakdown its own muscle tissue to perform that function but with an increased protein intake we are " protecting" the muscles.

During a mass/bulk phase I again  ( on gear ) increase my protein intake as my body has a much higher physiological limit for protein synthesis. 

When I was natty I never exceeded protein intake above 1.25g/pound when consuming a large amount of calories because being natty I couldn't utilize the added protein to build muscle ( it exceeded the capacity to do so ) and since My carbs and calories were high, there was no need for extra protein to protect my muscles 

Bottom line for what I have learned over the years:,when on the sauce I always consumed  a significant amount of protein then when I was natty.  
This and understanding BMR and DEE has allowed me to make good solid gains over the years.


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## SAD (Jan 8, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> I'm confused as to what you're saying; are you saying one shouldn't eat more than 30-45g of PRO per hour?



Of what?  Pure whey protein isolate that has been hydrolyzed?  Yes, that's what I'm saying would be the general rule of thumb for one sitting.



Docd187123 said:


> Is this a per meal figure?



Meal?  As in whole food?  Absolutely not.  Hence the reference to slamming a gigantic steak in one sitting, because if you're digesting it at 40g of protein over the course of 8+ hours then you can handle a very rough estimate of 320g protein from steak in one sitting.



Docd187123 said:


> Are you even putting a 'limit' to protein intake?



For what?  For use as amino acids and to be purposed for what we want it to be purposed for?  Absolutely, there is a limit.  But to say you won't USE all of the protein is false, because once you've reached the limit of protein utilization AS PROTEINS, your liver will begin to convert the aminos to glucose, a process known as gluconeogenesis ("create new sugar" translated).



Docd187123 said:


> If you are putting a limit as to how much protein to eat per meal or per hour why would you do so?



To show that if you understand the different types of proteins and their rough assimilation times, then you can have smaller shakes (less money spent on protein powders) and bigger meals, without gaining fat (from gluconeogenesis) or "starving" your muscles (which is actually exceedingly difficult to do if you have glycogen stores).






POB, who says I don't smoke???????  I mean, I don't, but how would you know that?  Lol.


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## SAD (Jan 8, 2014)

Seeker said:


> For lifters and and bodybuilders protein is of prime importance as it is the main building material for muscle tissue. We all know this already, but also because it's the easiest nutrient to plan a diet. It is for me anyway.
> The "basic" rule is that protein intake for individuals with a lean and musculature physique goal should be at LEAST 1.0g per pound of body weight. This is the minimum that you should take in each day to get the best possible results. However, other amounts are better suited depending on ones situation and goals.
> 
> I follow a pretty simple format that works for me. Now this format is while on the sauce mind you.
> ...



More of a response coming.  Damnit, my wife is going to divorce me for real.


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## Seeker (Jan 8, 2014)

Uh oh...lol


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## sfstud33 (Jan 8, 2014)

I drink three 16oz cartons of egg whites a day, two 50g shakes, a regular dinner with the family and assorted carbs through all that.

To be honest the egg whites have been the bomb. I could never eat enough to grow before. I'd hit a cycle and get little out of it because i just could not bring myself to eat. And if i had to eat solid meat 4 times a day i'd barf. I just dont care for it. But i can slam egg whites with the best of them.

Im 203lb at the moment, and im probably consuming around 250 - 275g protein a day and that seems to be pretty good for me at the moment. 

One side effect of all this protein. Watch your gas. I've been known to render whole rooms of our house a radioactive no fly zone for hours at a time. 

Experiment - find what works for you and constantly tweek to see if you can improve.


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## SAD (Jan 8, 2014)

sfstud33 said:


> I drink three 16oz cartons of egg whites a day, two 50g shakes, a regular dinner with the family and assorted carbs through all that.
> 
> To be honest the egg whites have been the bomb. I could never eat enough to grow before. I'd hit a cycle and get little out of it because i just could not bring myself to eat. And if i had to eat solid meat 4 times a day i'd barf. I just dont care for it. But i can slam egg whites with the best of them.
> 
> ...



One meal per day?  :32 (6):


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## GreatGunz (Jan 8, 2014)

There is a way " US " all can test our bodies ability to how much protein we as individuals can consume for protein amounts.

I have done it myself ..... So start with a 25-30 grams of protein shake, Now next couple times u urinate measure the uric acid
in your urine.

Next day make it 45-60 grams of protein do the same thing.

The higher your uric acid the more protein ur body wasted .

Now of course you need a base line so you need to check your urine without extra protein in ur system.


Myself as with most of us is more efficient with 25-30 grams of protein an hour vs double that .


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## SAD (Jan 8, 2014)

The problem with that is that uric acid levels don't show how much of the protein was utilized as aminos and how much was converted to glucose.  I might have double the uric acid levels on 60g of protein hydrosylate, but if I'm on 1g of test and shot 10iu slin before hand, I'm certainly going to use all of the protein efficiently.

I wonder if a blood glucose test could be set up to measure each person's point at which the liver begins to convert aminos into glucose.  Still, there would be thousands of variables.

It's a question that I'm afraid may never be perfectly answered.


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