# Gyno reversal?



## bgib

I ran a PH cycle a few months ago and after I finished a 6 week pct I started getting gyno, I waited a couple weeks and it just kept growing and growing.i ordered some arimidex and tamoxifen to try to reverse it, I know letro is what people suggest but I didn't want to completely crash my e and feel like shit for a month. can anyone tell me if it would be better to run only tamoxifen, only arimidex or both simotaniously and then cut out the arimidex after a while and continue tamox. any insight from someone with experience would be great. thanks


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## DocDePanda187123

Tamoxifen 20mg a day until gone


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## GYMBRAT

Only shitty deal is now you will ALWAYS get it while on cycle unless you keep up with an AI

So keep that in mind


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## DocDePanda187123

GYMBRAT said:


> Only shitty deal is now you will ALWAYS get it while on cycle unless you keep up with an AI
> 
> So keep that in mind



That is not true.


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## BiologicalChemist

What pro-hormone? Don't wouldn't run these..if you're going to jump on something do the real thing and be prepared before you start. Sorry to hear about the gyno though, that sucks. Always run an ai from day one. I've read Reversal is difficult once gyno or tissue growth has occurred..letro would be best bet but you may have to deal with the risk of a short-term libido crash. I'd recommend an AI (aromasin) over nolva mainly because ai's are suicidal inhibitors and aromasin is strong but not as strong as letro. It's hard to tell without blood-work, find out where your E2 is at. Gd luck.


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## John Ziegler

BiologicalChemist said:


> I'd recommend an AI (aromasin) over nolva mainly because ai's are suicidal inhibitors and aromasin is strong but not as strong as letro.



Did you mean aromasin over adex ? Nevermind I forgot tamoxifin is nolva and you must be addressing what Doc said.


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## BiologicalChemist

Zeigler Robertson said:


> Did you mean aromasin over adex ? Nevermind I forgot tamoxifin is nolva and you must be addressing what Doc said.



I meant exemestane (aromasin) but yeah its an AI like adex. it's just stronger and has a longer half-life. Nolva is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) so it doesn't have the suicidal inhibition at the enzymatic level like Ai's do. Which means ai's permanently prevent binding of testosterone and conversion to estrogen. Where as Nolva blocks binding temporarily..if you stop nolva and your estrogen isn't under control yet it will simply bind or have a rebound like effect and gyno may occur after


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## BiologicalChemist

Zeigler Robertson said:


> Did you mean aromasin over adex ? Nevermind I forgot tamoxifin is nolva and you must be addressing what Doc said.



My bad Zeig just realized I misread your post.. yes I meant aromasin over adex. I would use this over nolva in my opinion.


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## Popeye

BiologicalChemist said:


> because ai's are suicidal inhibitors




Didn't read all the posts, but not all ai's are suicide inhibitors....only aromasin


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## DocDePanda187123

BiologicalChemist said:


> What pro-hormone? Don't wouldn't run these..if you're going to jump on something do the real thing and be prepared before you start. Sorry to hear about the gyno though, that sucks. Always run an ai from day one. I've read Reversal is difficult once gyno or tissue growth has occurred..letro would be best bet but you may have to deal with the risk of a short-term libido crash. I'd recommend an AI (aromasin) over nolva mainly because ai's are suicidal inhibitors and aromasin is strong but not as strong as letro. It's hard to tell without blood-work, find out where your E2 is at. Gd luck.



Reversing gyno once tissue growth has occurred is pretty common, Even pubertal gyno years down the road.  Letro  is not the most effective treatment though. No AI is. SERM treatment, nolvadex and raloxifene specifically, are the two best compounds for reversing gyno.  

Also, like Pops mentioned, not all AI's are suicidal. Out of the 3 common ones on the forum, only aromasin is suicidal. 



BiologicalChemist said:


> I meant exemestane (aromasin) but yeah its an AI like adex. it's just stronger and has a longer half-life.



Adex is significantly stronger than aromasin. Adex's half life is ~50hrs whereas aromasin's half life is ~9hrs so adex really has the longer half life. 



> Nolva is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) so it doesn't have the suicidal inhibition at the enzymatic level like Ai's do.



Nolva is a SERM and isn't "suicidal" but like mentioned above, not all AI's are suicidal. 



> Which means ai's permanently prevent binding of testosterone and conversion to estrogen. Where as Nolva blocks binding temporarily..



With non-suicidal AI's like adex and letro you don't get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme inhibiting conversion of androgens to estrogens. The binding is temporary but you get much better estrogen suppression. 

With suicidal AI's like aromasin you get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme but you also get less estrogen suppression. 

With nolvadex you get mixed agonist and antagonist activity at the estrogen receptor (ER), but with regards to gyno, we're only concerned with it's antagonistic activity in breast tissue ER. By acting as an antagonist it binds to the ER WITHOUT activating it which in turn means estrogen has no place to bind to it's receptor. This is why nolvadex and raloxifene are the only compounds that can prevent gyno and are the most effective at reversing it. 



> if you stop nolva and your estrogen isn't under control yet it will simply bind or have a rebound like effect and gyno may occur after



The "rebound" effect is not associated with nolva like it is with adex or letro. There can be no rebound with nolva. There isn't an estrogen rebound from non-irreversible AI's anyway. You do not get estrogen rebound with adex or letro either. The rebound is another one of those bro science things that hasn't quite died yet which also makes aromasin's irreversible properties irrelevant.


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## bgib

so would it be beneficial to run dex and nolva together? I hear that nolva can make ai's less effective


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## DocDePanda187123

bgib said:


> so would it be beneficial to run dex and nolva together? I hear that nolva can make ai's less effective



No, it's best to run nolvadex or raloxifene to treat the gyno. Adex would be used to control your estrogen which, if you're not on anything currently, shouldn't be high to begin with. You also shouldn't assume it's high or low without seeing blood work. There's no need for any AI right now without bloods showing high estrogen and then the case becomes why is estrogen high of you're not running anything. You still wouldn't jump to the AI until you figured out the underlying condition. 

Nolva reduces serum levels of adex yes BUT, and I cant stress this enough, this doesn't make the adex any less effective. A study has shown this.


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## Popeye

DocDePanda187123 said:


> yes BUT,* and I fat stress this enough*, this doesn't make the adex any less effective. A study has shown this.



this made me laugh out loud...lmao, i dont know why...gotta love autocorrect


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## DocDePanda187123

Popeye said:


> this made me laugh out loud...lmao, i dont know why...gotta love autocorrect



Autocorrect hates me lol. I fixed it but nice catch Pops


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## bgib

I guess I just assumed that if the gyno is growing still then e levels must be high


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## DocDePanda187123

bgib said:


> I guess I just assumed that if the gyno is growing still then e levels must be high



Not necessarily no. There are other factors than come into play as well. Blood work will be the only way to know if your estradiol is high or not although I doubt that is the case.


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## Freedom

Raloxifene is shrinking my down. Might have to take it for a few months though.


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## BiologicalChemist

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Reversing gyno once tissue growth has occurred is pretty common, Even pubertal gyno years down the road.  Letro  is not the most effective treatment though. No AI is. SERM treatment, nolvadex and raloxifene specifically, are the two best compounds for reversing gyno.
> 
> Also, like Pops mentioned, not all AI's are suicidal. Out of the 3 common ones on the forum, only aromasin is suicidal.
> 
> 
> 
> Adex is significantly stronger than aromasin. Adex's half life is ~50hrs whereas aromasin's half life is ~9hrs so adex really has the longer half life.
> 
> 
> 
> Nolva is a SERM and isn't "suicidal" but like mentioned above, not all AI's are suicidal.
> 
> 
> 
> With non-suicidal AI's like adex and letro you don't get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme inhibiting conversion of androgens to estrogens. The binding is temporary but you get much better estrogen suppression.
> 
> With suicidal AI's like aromasin you get irreversible binding to the aromatase enzyme but you also get less estrogen suppression.
> 
> With nolvadex you get mixed agonist and antagonist activity at the estrogen receptor (ER), but with regards to gyno, we're only concerned with it's antagonistic activity in breast tissue ER. By acting as an antagonist it binds to the ER WITHOUT activating it which in turn means estrogen has no place to bind to it's receptor. This is why nolvadex and raloxifene are the only compounds that can prevent gyno and are the most effective at reversing it.
> 
> 
> 
> The "rebound" effect is not associated with nolva like it is with adex or letro. There can be no rebound with nolva. There isn't an estrogen rebound from non-irreversible AI's anyway. You do not get estrogen rebound with adex or letro either. The rebound is another one of those bro science things that hasn't quite died yet which also makes aromasin's irreversible properties irrelevant.




Awesome thanks for clarification doc I gotta get my facts straight! Im glad these points were brought up.


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## gymrat827

60mg ralox for 2-4wks

12.5 ED stane for 2-4wks

then drop down to

30mg ralox

12.5 E3D

than 30mg ralox ED til its gone

6.25 mg EOD stane


its a slow tapering process to prevent rebound.


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## GotClen

This thread just proves PH can shut you down just like the real goodies.
Most just don't realize it happens.
Hope you are getting the gyno under control 
Gc


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## TwinPeaks

Tamoxiver helped me to cope with upcoming booobzzz.


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## ToolSteel

TwinPeaks said:


> Tamoxiver helped me to cope with upcoming booobzzz.



Dude.. Stop your shilling. No one gives a crap about junk websites. You hint at it in every single post.


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## KushCausedComa

This is one thing i cannot stress enough never run gear or ph's. without some means of combating gyno or aromatization while on cycle. I allways keep an ai on hand (aromasin) encase my nipples get itchy. As far as reversal run a smaller dose of nolvadex untill its gone. But if it were me i would run a sucide ai and the nolvadex to limit the chance of future flare ups.


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## DocDePanda187123

KushCausedComa said:


> This is one thing i cannot stress enough never run gear or ph's. without some means of combating gyno or aromatization while on cycle. I allways keep an ai on hand (aromasin) encase my nipples get itchy. As far as reversal run a smaller dose of nolvadex untill its gone. But if it were me i would run a sucide ai and the nolvadex to limit the chance of future flare ups.



The benefits of a suicidal ai are......none.


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## zach2020

Hi, sorry to resurrect an old thread, but the people on here seem to be extremely knowledgeable.

I have had gyno since I was about 13, not full bad gyno, just what I've always called puffy nipples. I don't have hard glands, they just feel like they are emtpy and stick out. A friend that I have started training with recently told me to look into nolvadex and letrozole and told me that they would be able to get rid of my gyno. I did have the option of having lipo on the NHS to have it sorted, but decided against going under the knife to sort out such a superficial problem, even though it's always bothered me.

Could anyone advise me if either of these drugs would be worth a shot for me, I am now 32 and if there are any associated dangers. I appreciate any information on this, but please only post if you have genuine experience.

Thank you.


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## UrogenitalSubsect

zach2020 said:


> Hi, sorry to resurrect an old thread, but the people on here seem to be extremely knowledgeable.
> 
> I have had gyno since I was about 13, not full bad gyno, just what I've always called puffy nipples. I don't have hard glands, they just feel like they are emtpy and stick out. A friend that I have started training with recently told me to look into nolvadex and letrozole and told me that they would be able to get rid of my gyno. I did have the option of having lipo on the NHS to have it sorted, but decided against going under the knife to sort out such a superficial problem, even though it's always bothered me.
> 
> Could anyone advise me if either of these drugs would be worth a shot for me, I am now 32 and if there are any associated dangers. I appreciate any information on this, but please only post if you have genuine experience.
> 
> Thank you.



Have you asked your doctor's opinion on this? I'd recommend doing that first.


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## Chillinlow

Doesn’t sound like gyno just the figure of your body IMO. Depending on your size if your really skinny with lil boobies and have had them sense 13 I’d say this is something for plastic surgery. If you have a little weight on you not Obiese a diet could reduce them.


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## KushCausedComa

Carderine, letro, test prop or no ester and arimstane is what I have my clients take. Makes gyno die. But you have to worry about crashing your estrogen.


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## Jin

KushCausedComa said:


> Carderine, letro, test prop or no ester and arimstane is what I have my clients take. Makes gyno die. But you have to worry about crashing your estrogen.



AYFKM?

10char


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## KushCausedComa

Jin said:


> AYFKM?
> 
> 10char


No this is gyno protocol on a lot of forum posts. I forgot to add nolvadex in there but you get the idea. And yes carderine helps to lipolize the tissue. Adding injectable carnitine injected to the sight works wonders to but I don't know my shit.


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## eddish18

hey guys and i am an internatinal student form sweden i took some testo, years ago enathate and now recently my right breast has started gyno development without me even being on any steroids atm ! I live in los angeles Santa monica right now and i know this question seem stupid since i dont know you! but im freaking out as i know this matter is urgent. ive been to to doctors and shit and they told me its gyno development and that i shouldent be worrie but i am. the thing is im not from around here and i have clue were i could get like any of these estrogen blockers and stuff. could u recommend something i could try some website with real shit or mabye were to go where i might be able to find it i know that asking people i believe take steroids could be one but i dont no if they would be comfortable to just talk to me about it randomly?!


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## Jin

Hello Lars. 

You can order those compounds from a research chemical company. They are legal because they are not marketed for human use. Someone here should be able to recommend one to you.


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## Dirty jonny

Always run ai in the future


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## Viduus

Dirty jonny said:


> Always run ai in the future




Pretty site the OP is old and dead now....


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## maxmuscle1

bgib said:


> I ran a PH cycle a few months ago and after I finished a 6 week pct I started getting gyno, I waited a couple weeks and it just kept growing and growing.i ordered some arimidex and tamoxifen to try to reverse it, I know letro is what people suggest but I didn't want to completely crash my e and feel like shit for a month. can anyone tell me if it would be better to run only tamoxifen, only arimidex or both simotaniously and then cut out the arimidex after a while and continue tamox. any insight from someone with experience would be great. thanks



I never recommend letrozole unless you have gyno. That being said, I used .5 eod and it reversed/shrank the lump in my nipple.  It is totally suppressing but works incredible.


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## Gadawg

There is a thread somewhere in our archives where some members said that their gyno was completely removed when they started taking masteron. Im watching the bulldogs look like chit at the moment or I woukd try to find it for you.


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## Thebiggestdumbass

Gadawg said:


> There is a thread somewhere in our archives where some members said that their gyno was completely removed when they started taking masteron. Im watching the bulldogs look like chit at the moment or I woukd try to find it for you.


I’m about to buy up someone’s entire stock of masteron


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