# Clint Darden Video re: HGH Usage



## NbleSavage (Jul 24, 2013)

He makes some interesting points re: higher doses versus lower and misguided expectations of efficacy. 

Cheers.

- Savage


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 24, 2013)

just poked 2iu of gh


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## SAD (Jul 24, 2013)

.25iu?  I've read studies that showed 1iu was equal to about double your largest natural pulse, which occurs approx 90 min after falling asleep.  That would mean that .25iu would be HALF of your biggest natural pulse, assuming a linear rate of efficacy.

Also, to furthermore dispute the efficacy of .25iu for the majority of us (without ulcerative colitis), those studies I mentioned were done using US Pharm grade GH, not the Chinese stuff that the vast majority of us use.

I know POB loves him some Darden, but in this case I think he's erring on the side of EXTREME and unnecessary caution.


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## grind4it (Jul 24, 2013)

Personally, I like the video. I agree in princaple with the ideas that; more is not always better, that the people promoting doses generally are people with something to gain or are puking up things they have read on the net.

I don't know that .25-1iu of GH is enough but on the other hand my experiance has been 8iu of GH for six months got me nothing other than water retention and sore joints. IMO, everyone is different and there are a lot of factors that should be considered. Personally, I have learned for me 3-4iu is all I need I get all the benifits without the water retention.

I'm also covenced that the notion of gaining any kind of muscle gains while on GH is bullshit. The reason I say this is not only my experiance; but the fact that I have seen nothing to back this claim. I want one person to stand up and say they gained any kind of mass after running GH. I am convenced that people are giving credit to the GH, while running it with AAS. The benift I've experienced is fat lose. Honestly, my fat lose has been profound enough to justify the use. 

Just my two cents


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 24, 2013)

SAD said:


> .25iu?  I've read studies that showed 1iu was equal to about double your largest natural pulse, which occurs approx 90 min after falling asleep.  That would mean that .25iu would be HALF of your biggest natural pulse, assuming a linear rate of efficacy.
> 
> Also, to furthermore dispute the efficacy of .25iu for the majority of us (without ulcerative colitis), those studies I mentioned were done using US Pharm grade GH, not the Chinese stuff that the vast majority of us use.
> 
> I know POB loves him some Darden, but in this case I think he's erring on the side of EXTREME and unnecessary caution.




I do love Clint

Definitely don't mean he's always right.  .25iu is a sub-therapeutic dose.


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## SAD (Jul 24, 2013)

grind4it said:


> Personally, I like the video. I agree in princaple with the ideas that; more is not always better, that the people promoting doses generally are people with something to gain or are puking up things they have read on the net.
> 
> I don't know that .25-1iu of GH is enough but on the other hand my experiance has been 8iu of GH for six months got me nothing other than water retention and sore joints. IMO, everyone is different and there are a lot of factors that should be considered. Personally, I have learned for me 3-4iu is all I need I get all the benifits without the water retention.
> 
> ...




Muscle gained from GH is VERY VERY real.  The reason why it is hard to quantify or nail down is because it comes in the form of hyperplasia.  Hyperplasia is the multiplication of muscle cells, but they take months and months, probably years, to fully develop.   So muscle gained from GH (it's actually gained from the increase in IGF1 while on GH) is VERY REAL, but very difficult to correlate with doses or time.


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## NbleSavage (Jul 24, 2013)

grind4it said:


> Personally, I like the video. I agree in princaple with the ideas that; more is not always better, that the people promoting doses generally are people with something to gain or are puking up things they have read on the net.
> 
> I don't know that .25-1iu of GH is enough but on the other hand my experiance has been 8iu of GH for six months got me nothing other than water retention and sore joints. IMO, everyone is different and there are a lot of factors that should be considered. Personally, I have learned for me 3-4iu is all I need I get all the benifits without the water retention.
> 
> ...



Right there with you, Mate.


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## grind4it (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I agree GH increases IGF I, not being able to quantify dose/time/results screams snake oil in my world. I stand behind my statments. I'm still waiting for someone to stand up that has run HGH by itself and can show measurable gains.

As for IGF I; Tren (and a handful of other compounds) also raises IGF I. If you want muscle mass Tren is proven. I have personally experienced the gains. I have not with HGH. I'm not buying that I just didn't run enough, or run it long enough. Turning the lack of results back on the user reaks of the supplment industry in general.

SAD, I don't mean any disrespect and I hope that you don't take this as confrontational. Your a good brother and what I'm stating is based on my experiance and opinions and I am not saying that these statements are fact.



SAD said:


> Muscle gained from GH is VERY VERY real.  The reason why it is hard to quantify or nail down is because it comes in the form of hyperplasia.  Hyperplasia is the multiplication of muscle cells, but they take months and months, probably years, to fully develop.   So muscle gained from GH (it's actually gained from the increase in IGF1 while on GH) is VERY REAL, but very difficult to correlate with doses or time.


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## SAD (Jul 25, 2013)

No offense taken at all.  I just think you are missing the point.  I'm not saying you didn't run it at a high enough dose, or that you didn't run it long enough.  I'm saying that the new size and strength that will be gained by GH will have a delayed effect of anywhere from a few months to over a year.  The difference between tren and GH in terms of muscle gained is that muscle gained by hyperplasia is MUCH more permanent than muscle gained through hypertrophy.  I understand your trepidation, but the facts are the facts.  GH->IGF1->hyperplasia->eventual-new-muscle/strength.


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## grind4it (Jul 25, 2013)

Fair enough. Ill report back in a year. I've been on for 1-1/2 years so far 



SAD said:


> No offense taken at all.  I just think you are missing the point.  I'm not saying you didn't run it at a high enough dose, or that you didn't run it long enough.  I'm saying that the new size and strength that will be gained by GH will have a delayed effect of anywhere from a few months to over a year.  The difference between tren and GH in terms of muscle gained is that muscle gained by hyperplasia is MUCH more permanent than muscle gained through hypertrophy.  I understand your trepidation, but the facts are the facts.  GH->IGF1->hyperplasia->eventual-new-muscle/strength.


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## SAD (Jul 25, 2013)

grind4it said:


> Fair enough. Ill report back in a year. I've been on for 1-1/2 years so far



The problem is you'll never know how much of it is from GH.  You just have to trust that science works.


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## #TheMatrix (Jul 25, 2013)

dont quote me.....
but I heard someone ran 25ui at one point around here......  I wish he would share his experience but hes mostly in the shadows.


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## SAD (Jul 25, 2013)

sparticus said:


> dont quote me.....
> but I heard someone ran 25ui at one point around here......  I wish he would share his experience but hes mostly in the shadows.



Two summers ago I ran 5 kits of hyges in 6 weeks.  Here's the kicker.  They were the 200iu kits.  Do the math.  On days that I worked out I would pin 10iu in the morning, 10-20iu post workout, and 5-10iu pre-bed.  I did this during PCT from a harsh cycle, and the thing is, I had an absolutely TERRIBLE experience in terms of libido, loss of size and strength, and depression.  I would find out right at the 6 week mark that my research chems were completely hardened at the bottom of the murky bottle, so I wasn't running anything at all with the GH.  I thought I was running Aromasin and Toremifene, but I wasn't.  Once I realized that, I ran a 4 week blast of Test suspension, drol, dbol, and winny, and then re-tried PCT with legit meds.  Within 6 months I was at an all time high in size and strength, regardless of whether I was on cycle or not.  I don't know if it was from hyperplasia, but I trust that it was.

Sides were INSANE, by the way.  I would never recommend anyone blast GH that high.


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## grind4it (Jul 25, 2013)

Sorry brother. I don't trust anyone; much less science. If I did; I'd drink my N20 pre workout, my other snake oil every five minutes all day long. The entire time lining the pockets of the fat corporate fucks that dreamed/funded the science/fancy labeled/market it to the world. 

I know know the shit burns fat on my body. That's good enough for me. If at some point I swell up like the hulk as a side effect ill eat crow. My money says ill see the gains from the AAS I  run long before the GH 



SAD said:


> The problem is you'll never know how much of it is from GH.  You just have to trust that science works.


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