# Testosterone update



## zenshin (Oct 8, 2018)

Hey,

i made a thread last month on asking for advice on how to approach my endocrinologist on trt these are my levels

Total testosterone 149 ng/dL 

free testosterone 43 pg/ml

free testosterone pct. 2.9%

the endo tells me I’m fine it’s ok because my free testosterone is in the normal range my response is I just turned 40 these are the levels of a man over 70 and the free levels are barely normal maybe normal for someone granddad, but not for a 40 year old man. I don’t know what to do now this is supposedly someone that is a doctor from a prestigious hospital and runs the endocrinologist department.

He actually offered me a new diabetes medication that he believes will help my testosterone and with some weight loss, but I’m not diabetic!!!my suger levels where elevated, but not diabetes high. Does he want to experiment on me? IDK....


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## DevilDoc87 (Oct 8, 2018)

Get a new doc.


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## dk8594 (Oct 8, 2018)

Although frustrating, your experience isn't uncommon.  Many of us had to talk to multiple doctors on our road to TRT.  Just remember that you're the customer.   If you don't like the service you get somewhere or if the Dr isn't listening to your concerns shop around.  Although it's exponentially more expensive, there is also always the clinic route.

TRT can be life saving and it's worth fighting for.


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## BRICKS (Oct 8, 2018)

New doctor.  Also check out anti aging/try clinics.  If you're at all close to a city they shouldn't be hard to find


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## zenshin (Oct 8, 2018)

I guess I have too find a new doc and I’m not even askin for injections I want pellets and there still making it hard. The diabetic medication he’s trying to push can cause thyroid cancer, pancreas problems and kidney damage a whole host of bad stuff, it’s a lot more dangerous than testosterone


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## Jin (Oct 8, 2018)

zenshin said:


> I guess I have too find a new doc and I’m not even askin for injections I want pellets and there still making it hard. The diabetic medication he’s trying to push can cause thyroid cancer, pancreas problems and kidney damage a whole host of bad stuff, it’s a lot more dangerous than testosterone



You don’t want pellets.


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## Gadawg (Oct 9, 2018)

zenshin said:


> I guess I have too find a new doc and I’m not even askin for injections I want pellets and there still making it hard. The diabetic medication he’s trying to push can cause thyroid cancer, pancreas problems and kidney damage a whole host of bad stuff, it’s a lot more dangerous than testosterone




Keep searching. My doc wanted to give me cholesterol medication. That chit has a whole host of awful sides and has never been proven to lower the risk of cardio disease in anyone except those that already have it. TRT dropped me into very good ranges inside of 10 weeks.


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## zenshin (Oct 9, 2018)

Jin said:


> You don’t want pellets.


Why not? They have a long history of success plus it’s safer than injections I have read


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## Jin (Oct 9, 2018)

zenshin said:


> Why not? They have a long history of success plus it’s safer than injections I have read



Pellets are for people that don’t want to take any part in managing their trt. So, nobody on this board would be interested in that because we find the physiology and pharmacology to be interesting. We dedicate a lot of our free time learning about such things. 

“Safer” meaning you don’t have to stick yourself with a needle once a week?

Some diabetics takes multiple shots a day. There is almost zero risk of infection so long as the proper protocol is followed. 

Shots are are also far less painful than getting a pellet implanted in your ass. 

The biggest reason pellets are inferior is that they don’t allow precision: your doctor will literally guess what dose you need and then you are stuck with that dose for 3-4 months. Based on bloodwork he will guess again and you’re in for another 3-4 months on a new dose. 

Getting dialed in on trt takes time with shots. It could take over a year on pellets. 

If you want no part in managing your trt and if you are certain you won’t run a cycle then you could consider pellets.


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## Straight30weight (Oct 9, 2018)

Sadly, this is normal. My brother is 36, his total test is 153. 153! He has no drive for anything, is depressed, far out of shape, etc and his doc says he’s fine. He’s not fine! My doc told me I was fine too. I got a second and third opinion until someone would treat me. Now I’m fine. Insurance companies have doctors afraid to treat people, it’s pitiful


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## jennerrator (Oct 9, 2018)

Jin said:


> Pellets are for people that don’t want to take any part in managing their trt. So, nobody on this board would be interested in that because we find the physiology and pharmacology to be interesting. We dedicate a lot of our free time learning about such things.
> 
> “Safer” meaning you don’t have to stick yourself with a needle once a week?
> 
> ...



I totally agree.....that TEST cream was bullshit....shots all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:32 (20):


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## DevilDoc87 (Oct 9, 2018)

But they’ll jump at the chance to give it to a kid for sex change? Ffs.


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## Jin (Oct 9, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> But they’ll jump at the chance to give it to a kid for sex change? Ffs.



Hey man, they never asked to be put in a woman’s body. 

All these mid life crisis bitch boys just need to suck it up, eat healthy fats and lift heavy and their test levels will go up naturally.


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## Straight30weight (Oct 9, 2018)

Jin said:


> Hey man, they never asked to be put in a woman’s body.


You should slap yourself for that


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## Jin (Oct 9, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> You should slap yourself for that



You don’t enjoy my humor?


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## Straight30weight (Oct 9, 2018)

Jin said:


> You don’t enjoy my humor?


You don’t like mine?


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## Jin (Oct 9, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> You don’t like mine?


Touché :32 (17):


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## zenshin (Oct 9, 2018)

I’m just surprised because I was at the Cleveland clinic which is considered to be a very prestigious hospital with one of the best endocrinology departments in the world. I would assume they would realize how low my levels are and would treat it.

the reason I am considering pellets because they are bio identical and have a longer history with a great track record and more research than injections. Plus I don’t plan to cycle I’m 40 and fat I just want the boost to loose weight to get rid of my joint pains and to put some muscle on, if I could get levels in 1000 to 1500 I would be very very happy


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## Straight30weight (Oct 9, 2018)

When my t was low, no matter what I did I could not stop gaining fat and losing muscle. All my lifts steadily dropped, and no matter what I did with my diet I could not shed fat. Once I got my levels up I could do whatever I wanted, make gains, cut, etc. I wouldn’t want anything but injections. I like to be in control and I never find it a nuisance. In fact I look forward to it. I know how shitty I felt when I was low and I know how great I feel now, I happily stick that needle in me twice a week.


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## DevilDoc87 (Oct 9, 2018)

Not being an expert on trt or anywhere near,  but I doubt you’ll get a doc to pump you up to 1k-1.5k... idk seems like a lot to me.

my natural test is 647 I’m 31, I’m sure you would feel like a new man at just those normal levels.


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## Straight30weight (Oct 9, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> Not being an expert on trt or anywhere near,  but I doubt you’ll get a doc to pump you up to 1k-1.5k... idk seems like a lot to me.
> 
> my natural test is 647 I’m 31, I’m sure you would feel like a new man at just those normal levels.


There are clinics that believe in keeping you at the higher end of the spectrum. To be at 1000 would not be out of the realm of possibility. 1500, yeah probably not. Oddly enough though, these numbers aren’t even important. What’s important is free test,  it total. What good is massive free levels if none of it can be used?


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## Jin (Oct 9, 2018)

zenshin said:


> I’m just surprised because I was at the Cleveland clinic which is considered to be a very prestigious hospital with one of the best endocrinology departments in the world. I would assume they would realize how low my levels are and would treat it.
> 
> the reason I am considering pellets because they are bio identical and have a longer history with a great track record and more research than injections. Plus I don’t plan to cycle I’m 40 and fat I just want the boost to loose weight to get rid of my joint pains and to put some muscle on, if I could get levels in 1000 to 1500 I would be very very happy



Sounds like you’ve been reading marketing material. Testosterone is testosterone. The same hormone your body makes naturally. All testosterone is “bio identical”. Don’t be fooled by fancy marketing terms. 

Also so consider the fact that the doctor does the procedure and collects on insurance while writing you a Rx for test yields him no further profit. The head of urology at an Ivy League hospital also pushed pellets for my case. After some lengthy investigations on the boards I declined and pushed for injections. 

Doctors dont always know best. Even the elite experts can be off. I have my script and that is all that matters. I have ugl test too. My Rx is for 120mg/week. I need around 200 to get to 1000. This I tweet my protocol. Something you may end up having to do if you want optimal results.

can you give me a link to where you found the Information that pellets have been studied longer than injections for trt? I was under the impression that pellets were newer (at least for human use. There is a long history of hormone pellets for animals).


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## Beedeezy (Oct 9, 2018)

zenshin said:


> If I could get levels in 1000 to 1500 I would be very very happy


Everyone would be happy with those TRT  levels. PCP willing to put you at those levels are few and far between. 



Jin said:


> Can you give me a link to where you found the Information that pellets have been studied longer than injections for trt? I was under the impression that pellets were newer (at least for human use. There is a long history of hormone pellets for animals).


Id like to see this literature as well.


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## zenshin (Oct 9, 2018)

I will have do a search again it was pretty much falling in the testosterone rabbit hole on google looking and reading, but I also saw tons of videos on YouTube again after falling in the rabbit hole from video to video where they say pellets go back into the 40s where injections goes back to the 70s


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## jennerrator (Oct 10, 2018)

Had to look.....interesting.....but I would never use them!

*3. When were pellets first used for hormonal replacement?*

*Pellets have been used in both men and women since the late 1930’s. In fact, there is more data to support the use of pellets than any other method of delivery of hormones. Pellets are not patented and not marketed in the United States. They are frequently used in Europe and Australia where pharmaceutical companies produce pellets. Most of the research on pellets is out of England and Australia with some from Germany and the Netherlands. Pellets were frequently used in the United States from about 1940 through the late 70’s, early 80’s when patented **estrogen's**were marketed to the public. In fact, some of the most exciting data on hormone implants in breast cancer patients is out of the United States. Even in United Stated there are clinics that specialize in the use of pellets for hormone therapy.

*https://derosamedical.com/hormonal-pellet-faqs/#faq3


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## Jin (Oct 10, 2018)

So maybe pellets have been used longer to administer hormones, just not testosterone.


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## Chillinlow (Oct 11, 2018)

They aren’t for everyone but I have seen a few close friends benefit greatly from them. All depends what your looking to accomplish.


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## Jin (Oct 11, 2018)

Chillinlow said:


> They aren’t for everyone but I have seen a few close friends benefit greatly from them. All depends what your looking to accomplish.



I’m sure pellets are a better alternative to being hypogonadal.


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## waltr64 (Oct 11, 2018)

Endos are not the best place to go for hormones, I learned the hard way.  Urologist can sometimes be a good start but most don't understand the whole system.  I went to many docs finally ended up a an age management clinic and got some help (even though I was only 40 at the time).  But most age management or TRT/HRT docs don't take insurance.  I have found that I can buy most of what I need for about the same as or less than my copay using insurance so I just go to my regular doc to get my blood work done twice a year (that is how often the insurance will pay).   For example from my insurance HCG is almost $200 per bottle, I can get if for less than half that without insurance.  I now have a friend that I can get almost anything so look for that person around your gym, just make sure you get pharma grade not something that was made in someones bathroom or garage.


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## Gadawg (Oct 11, 2018)

Honestly, at the prices that blood tests cost and what UG test cyp costs, Id much prefer to manage my own trt (Im going to for a little while right now) but it worries me a little bit to be injecting non pharma grade gear on a weekly basis FOR LIFE. 

I know some of these raws are coming from China and I have read reports of heavy metals in some of them. 

It's sad that this is the way American medicine is. I can get 10 ml vials of test for $40 illegally and get bloodwork done for $38. Soooo cheap compared to the bullchit these crooks want.


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## Straight30weight (Oct 11, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Honestly, at the prices that blood tests cost and what UG test cyp costs, Id much prefer to manage my own trt (Im going to for a little while right now) but it worries me a little bit to be injecting non pharma grade gear on a weekly basis FOR LIFE.
> 
> I know some of these raws are coming from China and I have read reports of heavy metals in some of them.
> 
> It's sad that this is the way American medicine is. I can get 10 ml vials of test for $40 illegally and get bloodwork done for $38. Soooo cheap compared to the bullchit these crooks want.


My only concern here is getting it illegally for the long term. Other than that I’d happily manage my own


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## DevilDoc87 (Oct 11, 2018)

The thing is, with legal, you are paying big overhead fees.. you have all that insurance and shit that alleviates most safety concerns. 
But agreed it could be cheaper.


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## Elivo (Oct 12, 2018)

Rx test from a pharmacy is not that expensive. I pay about 30$ or less every 2 weeks for my trt stuff from the pharmacy. Thats without using my insurance to cover it. 
Im sure that it can vary based on the pharmacy and the area but for me ill keep doing my trt through the pharmacy and save the UG stuff for a cycle.

OP check out trt clinics and you can even hit up your family doctor. Now not all family docs are that well versed in trt and can be very hesitant and often want to start you out on a really low dose. And they sure as hell are not going to try to get your numbers up near 1000 total. But some are pretty good with it and can get things going for you.


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## zenshin (Oct 12, 2018)

After going back and forth with the endocrinologist he gave me a referral to a urologist who does pellets so let’s see how that goes. I’m not looking to become a massive bodybuilder I’m looking to benefit with some weight loss and muscle gains, with my levels anything higher than what I got now  should make me feel better than I do at this moment.


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## Jin (Oct 12, 2018)

zenshin said:


> After going back and forth with the endocrinologist he gave me a referral to a urologist who does pellets so let’s see how that goes. I’m not looking to become a massive bodybuilder I’m looking to benefit with some weight loss and muscle gains, with my levels anything higher than what I got now  should make me feel better than I do at this moment.



Keep us updated. Curious to hear how he presents pellets as the best solution. 

Also interested in what he can bill the insurance for and what your cost will be. 

You have ave a lot of information from the many “friends” you have who are already on trt. Make sure you bring up some of the points made here. 

Good luck.


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## zenshin (Oct 13, 2018)

Jin said:


> Keep us updated. Curious to hear how he presents pellets as the best solution.
> 
> Also interested in what he can bill the insurance for and what your cost will be.
> 
> ...



thanks, but it’s still not a for sure it’s up too the urologist is he wants to do it, the endo just sent the referral stating that I want pellets, not that I need it, so I have to work on the doctor to convince him I think at least. 

Also so found out my vitamin D is abnormally low 9.3 so I have to start 50k units a week for 12 weeks to see if my vitamins goes up, the endo said getting my vitamin D up could increase my testosterone levels a bit.


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## Jin (Oct 13, 2018)

zenshin said:


> thanks, but it’s still not a for sure it’s up too the urologist is he wants to do it, the endo just sent the referral stating that I want pellets, not that I need it, so I have to work on the doctor to convince him I think at least.
> 
> Also so found out my vitamin D is abnormally low 9.3 so I have to start 50k units a week for 12 weeks to see if my vitamins goes up, the endo said getting my vitamin D up could increase my testosterone levels a bit.



I believe vitamin D deficiency can also lead to symptoms similar to low T. Hopefully supplementing will help.


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## Chillinlow (Oct 13, 2018)

zenshin said:


> thanks, but it’s still not a for sure it’s up too the urologist is he wants to do it, the endo just sent the referral stating that I want pellets, not that I need it, so I have to work on the doctor to convince him I think at least.
> 
> Also so found out my vitamin D is abnormally low 9.3 so I have to start 50k units a week for 12 weeks to see if my vitamins goes up, the endo said getting my vitamin D up could increase my testosterone levels a bit.



I have had my vitamin d show low and a month later no changes and was good. Happened twice two different labs. vitamin D can skew easy. Best bet just take 2000 iu otc supp. Get retested see what Happens


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## zenshin (Nov 29, 2018)

I figure I will give an update. I am now laying in my urologist office and had 12 pellets inserted in my bum lol. I was given the option of shots, gels or pellets, but I have issues with elevated cpk levels and intramuscular shots would not be a good idea so I opted for pellets instead of gels. Let’s see what happens


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## zenshin (Nov 29, 2018)

Also my vitamin d is is low at 9.3 so Ive been on 50k units a week of vitamin d and my levels are up too 23.5 on starting 5k a day of d3 let’s see with higher d levels and pellets hopefully I’ll get a nice level of testosterone


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## Gadawg (Nov 29, 2018)

Does sunlight alone not help with vit D def.?


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## zenshin (Nov 29, 2018)

Not for me lol I have a history of low d I lived in Florida for a year and everyday i was out in the sun and still had low d


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## Texan69 (Jan 1, 2019)

Jin said:


> Pellets are for people that don’t want to take any part in managing their trt. So, nobody on this board would be interested in that because we find the physiology and pharmacology to be interesting. We dedicate a lot of our free time learning about such things.
> 
> “Safer” meaning you don’t have to stick yourself with a needle once a week?
> 
> ...



gosh pellets sounds horrible


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## burtle1987 (Feb 3, 2019)

yikes on those pellets 


how are you feeling now ?


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