# America: underclass



## Jin (Feb 17, 2021)

I remember when I first moved to Australia for a semester abroad, going to McDonalds and being floored because the chick working there was hot. Actually all the people there looked like people I would potentially go to school with etc. 

As opposed to America where there is (and I hope don’t sound too much like an asshole) a clear difference in socioeconomic status and (perhaps) “refinement” between myself and the person serving me at McDonalds (at least in urban areas). 

Same here in my little bum **** town in Japan. The hottest Japanese mom from school works at a gas station pumping gas. When’s the last time a solid 8.5 pumped your gas?

Other parents work at 711 and I would not consider them of lower status or refinement. Sure, maybe I have a different level of education but these are people I socialize with and feel equal to. 

All this to say that I think it’s interesting how America has a very distinct underclass. And that I don’t think this is ideal.


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## Robdjents (Feb 17, 2021)

I blame all the subcultures...let's do rednecks just for the sake of it.

Take an entire culture based off what happened on the 1860s give them country music and a platform to be heard and there you go a huge group of Americans who are quite frankly morons...I don't mean they are uneducated tho.

Ok my point.  These people will literally do anything and live how they are told to through country radio then to top it all off its almost a challenge to see who can be the dirtiest(hygiene)...then take into account 99% of these people just have to keep up with a fake accent..it has to be exhausting...but by doing all of this most people look down on them amd don't consider them equals...
We could go on and on with every "group" in the US and somewhere in those groups there is shitty behavior...

Just one man's thoughts


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## Sicwun88 (Feb 17, 2021)

America land of opportunity!
Why work at McDonald's or pump gas?
When you can sell drugs!!!


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## CohibaRobusto (Feb 17, 2021)

I think the wealth divide is worse than it has ever been. There is a bigger difference between the "haves" and "have nots." And I consider myself a "have," so I'm not pointing fingers at the wealthy, but more so back at myself as part of that system.

In my humble opinion, the problem revolves around education, parenting, some systemic racism, access to resources...it's huge.


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 17, 2021)

Really there is no more America . The shit we are living in now is a different country


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## Gadawg (Feb 17, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> I think the wealth divide is worse than it has ever been. There is a bigger difference between the "haves" and "have nots." And I consider myself a "have," so I'm not pointing fingers at the wealthy, but more so back at myself as part of that system.
> 
> In my humble opinion, the problem revolves around education, parenting, some systemic racism, access to resources...it's huge.




This.  

Just as a single example take freeway rick ross. Graduated high school somehow without being able to read or write at all. Was a fantastic tennis star with scholarship guarantees but that all went away when the colleges find out you have the scholastic education of a four year old. 

So then you start selling cocaine bc its your only real option. Eventually you are getting your cocaine supply directly from US govt contacts. And when it all explodes you get charged with life in prison.


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## permabulker (Feb 18, 2021)

Call me ignorant Im sure I might be. But I feel like 99% of that issue when it comes to America is drugs. They keep the poor poor and the rich rich. You aren’t going to see the 8.5 mum pumping gas snorting something in the public restrooms. 
All I know is Europe doesn’t have those kind of drug problems. Sure some recreational use but nothing that cripples an entire country.


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## John Ziegler (Feb 18, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Really there is no more America . The shit we are living in now is a different country



where you been, you missed the shenanigans

they all kicked my ass for saying this over juiced boxer chick looks like an ugly dude


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## Jin (Feb 18, 2021)

permabulker said:


> Call me ignorant Im sure I might be. But I feel like 99% of that issue when it comes to America is drugs. They keep the poor poor and the rich rich. You aren’t going to see the 8.5 mum pumping gas snorting something in the public restrooms.
> All I know is Europe doesn’t have those kind of drug problems. Sure some recreational use but nothing that cripples an entire country.



There are plenty of underclass who do not use drugs and who are hard working. 

I’ll have to firmly reject your figure


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## mugzy (Feb 18, 2021)

I have interviewed and hired well over 100 managers, sales people, etc. and have never taken how a person looks into consideration. In America we all work the jobs we work and make the money we make based on one of two things - Our skill level (education) or our level of motivation.

If a person works in a gas station or McDonalds it’s for one of those two reasons.


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## CohibaRobusto (Feb 18, 2021)

Just thought I should mention I worked at McDonald's cooking burgers for a year and a half when I was a kid.:32 (20):


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## John Ziegler (Feb 18, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Just thought I should mention I worked at McDonald's cooking burgers for a year and a half when I was a kid.:32 (20):



1987 

worked at Carl's Jr. for 20 mins, went through the 2 days training and the whole bit

applied for the cashier position, then the day I started they put me in the brown & orange polyester uniform 

but rather than have me at the register tried to put me on the floor sweeping up like a movie theater usher 

top it off kids from my school were eating there

left the uniform in the bathroom toilet


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## Jin (Feb 18, 2021)

mugzy said:


> I have interviewed and hired well over 100 managers, sales people, etc. and have never taken how a person looks into consideration. In America we all work the jobs we work and make the money we make based on one of two things - Our skill level (education) or our level of motivation.
> 
> If a person works in a gas station or McDonalds it’s for one of those two reasons.



Yes, but you won’t find many beautiful people among the poor either. 

We treat them better. 

I’m not saying people get hired because they are beautiful. I’m saying beautiful people reap the benefits of being beautiful their entire lives. 

So chances are they’ve already received the benefits of being good looking (by getting mentored, or helped or treated kindly) by the time you’ve interviewed them. 

My point is that these good looking people in Japan are also motivated and hard working and still pumping gas and selling cokes in this country because we don’t have an underclass here and somebody needs to sell cokes and pump gas. Might as well be a hot ass MILF

There is a very small homeless population but no real underclass.


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## CohibaRobusto (Feb 18, 2021)

John Ziegler said:


> 1987
> 
> worked at Carl's Jr. for 20 mins, went through the 2 days training and the whole bit
> 
> ...



Funniest (and saddest) story of mine was when the manager told me to mop the floor, and I had to ask her how to mop. :32 (6):


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## CohibaRobusto (Feb 18, 2021)

Also Jin I find there are some big differences in the attractiveness of people working starter jobs in fast food around my area. All the hot chicks work at Starbucks, Chick fil a, or Raisin' Cains. I don't know if the hiring is more prejudicial or if they gravitate to those places.


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 18, 2021)

No hot chicks work in fast food .


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## dk8594 (Feb 18, 2021)

It’s late so maybe I am reading your post wrong. 

Are you saying:
A) the working poor in Japan are more attractive and refined thus making them harder to distinguish from the wealthy than in the US, where it is easy to identify them? Thus it would be more ideal if the US working poor camouflaged themselves better.

Or

B) we should treat everyone the same regardless of their income?

Or

C) there should be just one class?

Not really sure where you are going with this one.


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## Jin (Feb 18, 2021)

I am claiming that there really aren’t any “working poor” here. Everyone typically can afford what normal people need to live in modern society expect a limited number of homeless. And this is very much a capitalist society. NOBODY takes assistance from the government. 

I’m not sure I am making any statement.  More of an observation. 

Here’s another. 

Everyone speak with a level of refinement and respect. It’s just expected. So you’ll get the same language from a homeless that you do from a businessman that you do from a thug, that you do from a housewife. 

In America you can often tell if a person is educated or what class they might be in just by the words they use and the way they talk. Here the language and words are the same.


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## Joliver (Feb 18, 2021)

Don't....do...it....jol.........

It's the wealth gap. There is a reason the wealth gap exists and I'll explain my opinion via dramatic oversimplification.

Read this in it's entirety before you call me a bigot or Nazi or whatever. Then call me a bigot or Nazi. Dealer's choice. 

Back in times long ago, before an immigration act called Hart-cellar act (immigration and nationality act of 1965), jobs like McDonald's etc was an acceptable job...for anyone. Most people graduated high school, married their high school sweetheart, got a job and kept it for 30 years and retired with pensions. They paid for cars in cash and had, on average, a 5 year mortgage. 

That piece of immigration legislation was pro business in the regard that low skilled labor in a labor limited market is expensive. Toss unions into the equation, and the profit potential for any major corporation was hindered by workforce solidarity in a limited pool of talent. It was the people vs big business. Big business won. 

Using the progressive fight for $15 as an example, I'll say to anyone that you can have $15 an hour minimum wage (inflation irrelevant...**** the fractional reserve), or you can have 400 million unskilled laborers....but not both. So when you import unskilled labor, the market is extremely efficient finding it (which is why the feminist argument of 70 cents on the dollar is moot).  You can see the real pay rate vs. productivity chart over those decades stay absolutely FLAT after that piece of legislation.

The real reduction in pay rate lead to (chicken vs egg argument) the need for two income families. There are no stay at home moms with a shrinking middle class. Stay at home dads never existed. I've looked into it. Trust me. 

So skilled labor was untouched... initially (not true now...see the $10hr Boeing computer engineer that killed a bunch of people). In fact, I'm in a STEM professional and my ability to find work and consistently get pay increases wasn't hindered.  Skill labor trended to success and climbed up and into the middle class. Since educated people tend to ensure their children are educated as well or better than themselves. Generational wealth was created. 

For the opposite reasons, flat real pay rates regardless of productivity, the requirement for dual income families, inflation, and job scarcity made generational poverty.

In a bit of irony, Elizabeth Warren wrote an entire book about this with her daughter. It's called "The two income trap." She argues that since real pay vs productivity didn't increase, both parents were required to pay for a family...further inundating the labor market with more labor... depressing real pay. It's neat. I'll link it. 

https://www.amazon.com/Two-Income-Trap-Middle-Class-Parents-Going/dp/0465090907

Working at McDonald's/Walmart etc...is a dead end life. Ensured by the lobbying efforts of McDonald's and Walmart themselves. At best...it's treading water. And because it's a dead end job lane straight to poverty, upper middle class people do not find it appealing.  Try as you might, you cannot help but speak poorly of that job. In fact, bullshit jobs are called "McJobs." That always manages to cast it's shadow over the employee. I know I'd wonder about a 45 year old working a min wage gig.

Wealthier people are, on the whole, happier, healthier, have access to desirable products and services that shape a person's snap judgement of their appearance. There is also an inverse relationship between wealth and obesity. Food is cheap... nutrition is expensive. 

This isn't so in other countries...or wasn't when I visited the Scandinavian countries. The trash collector is as respected as the optometrist... because neither is a dead end job. This is also why Walmart is unionized in some EU countries. Good pay. 1 month vacation per year. The whole shebang. 

All they had to do was to convince you that you're a racist/sexist/whatever-ist for the average person to not care that any of this was happening. In fact, it's hilarious to me that joe biden put Caesar Chavez' bust in his office. Biden wants immigration. Chavez was a Hispanic union labor leader that beat the hell illegal immigrants with chains in the desert crossing the border at night to prevent them from labor scabbing. 

It's a big joke America....and it's on you. The working class lost 13.9 trillion dollars in wages in the corona event. The Forbes folks picked up $13.7 trillion in net worth. 

If everyone would come together....it'd end tomorrow. But nobody will.... and they laugh.

I hope I've explained why poor minimum wage workers are fat and ugly and probably smell. Thank you for your time.


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## dk8594 (Feb 18, 2021)

I don’t really have much knowledge of their government policies.  Their personal income tax base is said to be narrower. Do you have any insights into how their basic livelihood protection program works? Is that like a universal income?


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## Blusoul24 (Feb 18, 2021)

Sicwun88 said:


> America land of opportunity!
> Why work at McDonald's or pump gas?
> When you can sell drugs!!!



The very mantra of the pharmaceutical industry.


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## dk8594 (Feb 18, 2021)

Found this from the OECD for those who like me don’t know much about Japan.  It gives a gauge of income,housing, jobs, civic engagement, environment, health, life satisfaction, safety, and work life balance.  Includes a tool that allows you to compare Japan to other countries as well.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/

Large differences in income disparity between pre and post war Japan as well.


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## permabulker (Feb 18, 2021)

Jin said:


> There are plenty of underclass who do not use drugs and who are hard working.
> 
> I’ll have to firmly reject your figure



I guess going to America twice and being in a McDonald’s in Santa Monica fighting homeless people over the soda machine probably has skewed my opinion hugely.


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## permabulker (Feb 18, 2021)

Jin said:


> I am claiming that there really aren’t any “working poor” here. Everyone typically can afford what normal people need to live in modern society expect a limited number of homeless. And this is very much a capitalist society. NOBODY takes assistance from the government.
> 
> I’m not sure I am making any statement.  More of an observation.
> 
> ...



this all makes sense to me. But don’t you think heavy drug use affects the way you behave and speak? For me the people I couldn’t help but feel uncomfortable around in America were the ones talking to pigeons. And telling me they were going to knock me out for not buying them a sandwich in 7/11. 
does japan have much of a stigma with drugs?


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## permabulker (Feb 18, 2021)

Jin said:


> There are plenty of underclass who do not use drugs and who are hard working.
> 
> I’ll have to firmly reject your figure



I know that. I’m not saying all Americans do drugs. But it’s far more likely you will do drugs if you don’t have a job, haven’t had a good education etc. it’s part of a culture.


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## Robdjents (Feb 18, 2021)

permabulker said:


> I know that. I’m not saying all Americans do drugs. But it’s far more likely you will do drugs if you don’t have a job, haven’t had a good education etc. it’s part of a culture.



Drugs are expensive in America.   You think poor people are doing all the blow?? No its people with good jobs and educations that can afford to do it..  drugs in America come with the job sometimes has nothing to do with being uneducated or jobless....people just like drugs lol


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## Texan69 (Feb 18, 2021)

Robdjents said:


> Drugs are expensive in America.   You think poor people are doing all the blow?? No its people with good jobs and educations that can afford to do it..  drugs in America come with the job sometimes has nothing to do with being uneducated or jobless....people just like drugs lol



meth and crack are not expensive at all.


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## permabulker (Feb 18, 2021)

Robdjents said:


> Drugs are expensive in America.   You think poor people are doing all the blow?? No its people with good jobs and educations that can afford to do it..  drugs in America come with the job sometimes has nothing to do with being uneducated or jobless....people just like drugs lol



I don’t agree at all. There are many types of drugs and the nasty ones are cheap af. Just my opinion. I think of course richer people can afford the drugs that aren’t mixed with washing powder.


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## Texan69 (Feb 18, 2021)

A couple thoughts come to mind and none of this is based of any stats I’ve seen

 But maybe it has to do with cost of living? Maybe cost of living in the US is higher than other places so a decent job is a must if you want any type of life, maybe but in a country where cost of living is cheaper maybe you can work at a gas station and live a good life? 

a lower cost of living could also mean a smaller underclass?

another thought is maybe we place more emphasis on beauty and sex appeal so good looking better reap the benefits like Jin said but maybe in other places your an 8.5 so what what can you do in the workplace? Nothing besides being hot okay we’ll go be hot while you flip my burger? 

again this is just a thought I don’t have much knowledge on other countries 

being a cop I deal with the underclass a lot and I can tell you there is a different set of values and rules to life. I think maybe the government enables the underclass with handouts the whole teach a man to fish thing


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## Iron1 (Feb 18, 2021)

Joliver said:


> If everyone would come together....it'd end tomorrow. But nobody will.... and they laugh.



This has been something I've been thinking about for a long, long time.

America has romanticized and ingrained the ideal of rugged individualism. Every media hero, folk lore legend and the like all went it alone to the point where we somehow feel like our successes are less meaningful unless achieved alone. The stories of packing up the covered wagon and heading out west to start a life for yourself, the lone-ranger types, the one-against-all stereotypes, the Rosie the riveters, John Waynes and Amelia Earhart have  permeate our society to our detriment. We seem to think that working together is a sign of weakness. That dying alone in a storm while hunting for food with your last cartridge and a broken leg is somehow more noble than working together to be better prepared to handle the storm. 

It's the crab bucket time and time again. The working class as a whole seem to perceive "successes" by preventing someone else from achieving and that only causes a worse tomorrow for everyone except those at the top. Perpetrating a caste system of working poor is not a success.  




Joliver said:


> I
> The working class lost 13.9 trillion dollars in wages in the corona event. The Forbes folks picked up $13.7 trillion in net worth.



The common man will celebrate how good the economy is doing because that green line on a chart they can't afford has ticket up a few percentage points. 

Remember how they treated us when their speculative gambling ruined the lives of millions of Americans back in 2008? 













...and they laugh...


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## Robdjents (Feb 18, 2021)

Sure meth and Crack are cheap in the beginning...but being addicted to any drug is expensive...take weed even...I have a thousand dollar a month habbit....and it's technically not even addictive which I call bullshit on but that's a whole other topic....but yes comparatively those drugs are cheap and I would say they are the go to for the "underclass"


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## permabulker (Feb 18, 2021)

Texan69 said:


> A couple thoughts come to mind and none of this is based of any stats I’ve seen
> 
> But maybe it has to do with cost of living? Maybe cost of living in the US is higher than other places so a decent job is a must if you want any type of life, maybe but in a country where cost of living is cheaper maybe you can work at a gas station and live a good life?
> 
> ...



I think this is a good point. When I mentioned drugs I didn’t mean that all poor people use. I just meant that from my experience with the homeless it’s 100% worse being a homeless person in USA than it is any other country, I didn’t even see any homeless people in japan.


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## Texan69 (Feb 18, 2021)

Jin said:


> I am claiming that there really aren’t any “working poor” here. Everyone typically can afford what normal people need to live in modern society expect a limited number of homeless. And this is very much a capitalist society. NOBODY takes assistance from the government.
> 
> I’m not sure I am making any statement.  More of an observation.
> 
> ...



Well I’m gonna take a guess and assume the school system in Japan is better than ours, they respect and value family more, they are driven to make their family proud and the media/tv/film/music there is probably less vulgar than ours so they prolly just grow up seeing and learning better behavior in Japan than in the US? 

except Pearl Harbor that was not good behavior


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## permabulker (Feb 18, 2021)

Robdjents said:


> Sure meth and Crack are cheap in the beginning...but being addicted to any drug is expensive...take weed even...I have a thousand dollar a month habbit....and it's technically not even addictive which I call bullshit on but that's a whole other topic....but yes comparatively those drugs are cheap and I would say they are the go to for the "underclass"



i think it’s about priorities though man. Once you are addicted you will give up every penny you have for one more hit. I think it’s a different use of drugs. Some people choose drugs over the only meal they will have that day.


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## xyokoma (Feb 18, 2021)

Britain has the very same issue, if not worse. With the underclass comes the posh class - an all together different league from middle or plain upper class, this is something you simply must be born into and fit specific requirements eg. Long blood line.


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## Gadawg (Feb 18, 2021)

Drug and alcohol addictions are often due to feelings of hopelessness. Its easy for people born with a lot of advantages to say “well just work harder”. 

But if youre born in rural missouri or west baltimore, or any number of other hells where you couldnt find a decent job if you were willing to work 100 hour weeks, well its different. 

Im not saying there is an answer. I would say ending the war on drugs and doing things like like portugal has done would be a big start.


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## Robdjents (Feb 18, 2021)

Gadawg said:


> Drug and alcohol addictions are often due to feelings of hopelessness. Its easy for people born with a lot of advantages to say “well just work harder”.
> 
> But if youre born in rural missouri or west baltimore, or any number of other hells where you couldnt find a decent job if you were willing to work 100 hour weeks, well its different.
> 
> Im not saying there is an answer. I would say ending the war on drugs and doing things like like portugal has done would be a big start.



I literally live in rural MO amd you aren't wrong.. if you are not a straight up go getter it's easy to fall behind


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## BigSwolePump (Feb 18, 2021)

Probably because Americans are too busy finding ways to separate themselves and divide the country while every other country in the world walks proud to be citizens.

Maybe its because Americans are so arrogant that "low class", "middle class" and "high class" is even a thing...

Although, it could be that being the fattest country in the world has caused their eyes to be covered with their fat eyelids to see that those people are Americans just like them and should be treated the same instead of looked down upon?

As far to to having someone pump my gas...PFFFFT. Americans are far too high class to pump gas. That is a slave job and being unemployed and living off of the system is much more dignified.


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## DEADlifter (Feb 18, 2021)

BigSwolePump said:


> That is a slave job and being unemployed and living off of the system is much more dignified.



I've been waiting for someone to mention this.  There is a mentality among the underclass in this country that they are "better off" not working and drawing unemployment.  I have personally heard a woman tell her daughter "if you take that job you're going to lose your food stamps"  

There is a huge free-loader class in this nation.  Look at income tax season.  People who paid in $1000 or less getting back $8000 because they have children they can't afford. So they go out to a buy here pay here lot and get a car just to lose it three months later.  It isn't systemic racism.  It's a learned history of irresponsibility that is deeply engrained in them regardless of race.  It spans the whole spectrum of colors here. 

Politicians send out these "stimulus" checks to people who have no skin in the game.  

I think instead of stimulus to people who put no effort in they should cut income tax for the year and help the working man and not the free-loader, but that is a different topic.

To sum it up, the underclass here live without consequence for the most part.  A life without consequence doesn't beget motivation to take care of oneself therefore they typically look like shit.  They eat shit food, bought by the government (aka my tax dollars), everyday.  Triple bypass?  No big deal, the government (aka my tax dollars) will pay for that for you also.

Shit is fubar round these parts and there is no chance of getting it back right.  To quote a farmer from Ohio I once knew, you can't put the shit back in the horse.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 18, 2021)

Jin said:


> I remember when I first moved to Australia for a semester abroad, going to McDonalds and being floored because the chick working there was hot. Actually all the people there looked like people I would potentially go to school with etc.
> 
> As opposed to America where there is (and I hope don’t sound too much like an asshole) a clear difference in socioeconomic status and (perhaps) “refinement” between myself and the person serving me at McDonalds (at least in urban areas).
> 
> ...



I think that is done on purpose here in the US.


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## BRICKS (Feb 18, 2021)

Jin made a comment about dependency on the government and how in Japan they are not taking any hand outs.  Big part if the problem and I leave this here to illustrate the point.  Also speaks to Brother Irons post above.

https://youtu.be/pQ4lnDy2xnQ


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## Iron1 (Feb 18, 2021)

DEADlifter said:


> They eat shit food, bought by the government (aka my tax dollars), everyday. Triple bypass? No big deal, the government (aka my tax dollars) will pay for that for you also.




The working class pay the most into a system that benefits them the least and that inequality breeds hatred for those who receive the benefits of our labor. 


I don't hate a person for getting subsidized health care. I am filled with hate because my labor is providing a benefit that is not available to me. The individual receiving the benefit is an unfortunate, misguided outlet. As misguided as it may be, it still creates a socioeconomic rift perpetrating the caste system. 

We are so fearful of anything different that we stick up for this broken system time and again.


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## Iron1 (Feb 18, 2021)

Be good to each other. We're all on this rock together.


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## Bearmance (Feb 18, 2021)

The American job market and economy has been totally screwed by the boomers.


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## Iron1 (Feb 18, 2021)

Bearmance said:


> The American job market and economy has been totally screwed by the boomers.



Lets put some numbers to this. 

In 1987 the minimum wage was $3.35. Adjusted for inflation, that $3.35 is roughly $7.88 per hour in todays dollars according to the US-BoLS. 

In todays dollars, the minimum wage is $7.25. 


Wage data from US Dept of Labor; https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history/chart

Inflation calculator from US. Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm


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## Joliver (Feb 18, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> This has been something I've been thinking about for a long, long time.
> 
> America has romanticized and ingrained the ideal of rugged individualism. Every media hero, folk lore legend and the like all went it alone to the point where we somehow feel like our successes are less meaningful unless achieved alone. The stories of packing up the covered wagon and heading out west to start a life for yourself, the lone-ranger types, the one-against-all stereotypes, the Rosie the riveters, John Waynes and Amelia Earhart have  permeate our society to our detriment. We seem to think that working together is a sign of weakness. That dying alone in a storm while hunting for food with your last cartridge and a broken leg is somehow more noble than working together to be better prepared to handle the storm.
> 
> ...



The myth of the "self made man." The hope that if you work hard enough, or have that one unicorn idea, you'll achieve the American dream. It's laughable. 

The stock market argument was my issue with trump. The working poor don't get to participate in a meaningful way. It's not a fundamental measurement of societal success. It may have been at one time when baby boomers had a job, 401k, pensions, and still could afford to fund an IRA at the end of the year. 

Now wages are so low, coupled with diminishing buying power (34% of every US dollar EVER printed was in 2020), it's no true anymore.

Also, if people aren't too busy to click a few buttons, go to Google and look at the search term statistics for "racism." Look at when it became popular. It wasn't when Obama became president. It was in 2012's occupy wall street movement. I looked at Citi Group's high net worth investor report shortly after this. One of the "threats" to the "oligopoly" (BOTH of those terms were explicitly used), and democracy was stated. "One person....one vote" was a threat to the regulatory environment that enabled their success.

People were so close to meaningful change...but they ****ed up the endgame. Became distracted by hating each other. It was the greatest threat to the "oligopoly" I'd ever seen. 

But what do I know...I'm just a "conspiracy theorist." 

*Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses.---Plato*

I think it was Deadlifter's post that said that there was a cultural difference where people would rather sit and do nothing. There will always be lazy and worthless people. But this number is dramatically increased by societal dropout from people that just...quit. When the unemployment numbers come out, it never counts the people who just stopped searching. Those people are so dangerous to society. So dangerous that civilizations have dealt with unemployed military age males with no hope of advancement with afterlife accolades (celibate priesthood, Muslim martyrdom, etc). 

This is something that will be an issue. One push too far will spark something that cannot be undone. This is why the green narrative is so dangerous. Bill Gates shouldn't be telling a bunch of starving people that beef is off the table when the occasion comes that they can afford it. "Let them eat cake" doesn't end well when people just have had enough.

I say all of this as a patriot. I'm not some jilted fool communist typing from my parents basement. I love this country. I want the best for it. The middle class "Al Bundy's" of the world that sold shoes, had a home, a family, and a hot redheaded nympho wife are the heart of it. I get tired of hearing that the average person can't scrape together $3,000 in their checking account.

I'm a landlord and I see the suffering every month. I'm a solid business man, but I negotiate with my tenants when I see they just can't make a way. It doesn't behoove me to get shot in the back by jamming up a young couple that both have minimum wage jobs and are juggling a kid. 

They say money cannot buy happiness, but being broke is guaranteed misery. We should consider this.


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## Joliver (Feb 18, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> Lets put some numbers to this.
> 
> In 1987 the minimum wage was $3.35. Adjusted for inflation, that $3.35 is roughly $7.88 per hour in todays dollars according to the US-BoLS.
> 
> ...



Now armed with those numbers, consider the cost of housing and education. Oof.

The barriers to home ownership and education are becoming insurmountable for the lowest strata in society.


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 18, 2021)

I though about this a bit, the size of the genetic pool correlated to how a person looks. 

Rural places have a smaller genetic pool, so they tend to look lesser. In the urban areas the genetic pool is huge, so every looks alot better. 

Like how someone might say someone is a town 9, but a city 7. 

I think this is because America is huge in size, and there is not much intermingling between the cities and the rural areas. European countries are small in size so the populations are always intermingling so there are no separate genetic pools. 


(This is just a thought I had, Its most likely wrong)


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## white ape (Feb 18, 2021)

JackDMegalomaniac said:


> I though about this a bit, the size of the genetic pool correlated to how a person looks.
> 
> Rural places have a smaller genetic pool, so they tend to look lesser. In the urban areas the genetic pool is huge, so every looks alot better.
> 
> ...




sounds totally bogus


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## Iron1 (Feb 18, 2021)

Joliver said:


> Now armed with those numbers, consider the cost of housing and education. Oof.
> 
> The barriers to home ownership and education are becoming insurmountable for the lowest strata in society.



This begets what you had said before about societal dropout. 

People drop out of society for many reasons but a factor in the recent dramatic increase that can't be overlooked is the lack of belief in a future. When people no longer believe that the society they're a part of can provide a future based on reasonable contributions, they stop contributing to that society. If history has taught us anything, we've learned that people will move the heavens and the earth itself, embark onto uncharted missions that take us to the ends of the universe as well as the depths below and will lay down and fight until their dying breath for what they believe in. The caveat that preempts all of that is they must first believe that the effort is worthwhile. 

The average people seeking a future are all really selling the same thing in order to achieve it; time, our one shot at life on this planet. For that time, we receive monetary compensation that we then spend on a future through buying things like a home, education, having children etc. When a stable future will cost you more time than you can afford to sell, there is no other option but to drop out. Nobody is going to work 120 hours a week to still be poor if being poor requires no work at all.


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## RISE (Feb 18, 2021)

Isnt suicide and low self esteem a huge problem in japan?  Just bc you're hot dont mean your life is easier.

Every country has their problems.  I dont think you can pinpoint to one reason why each country has differences in the classes.  Its everything from economics, history, education, genetics, family influence, etc.

I will say though, this has been on my mind lately.  Mostly bc every young adult seems to be complaining about how hard it is to live nowadays.  One thing I've noticed is that most young adults are useless.  They know how to work a couple electronic devices and that's about it.  It wasnt too long ago where the house you lived in was built by your father/grandfather.  Your mother made your clothes and knew how to cook and take care of you when you were sick.  This country was built by people who knew how to use their hands and brains and didnt need to go spend x amount of money at a college to learn how to do it.  They were taught a trade before they left the house.  Most adults nowadays cant even change the oil in their phucking car.  And they want to be paid more for their useless job.

Somewhere along the line, people stopped teaching their kids how to be productive.  I'm also a product of one of those parents, except I realized how useless I was/am and have made it a major priority to fix it and pass it on to my son.


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## Jin (Feb 18, 2021)

I am really enjoying this discourse. Some really insightful and incredible responses. 

I did not mean to set this up as a Japan vs America thing. Just using my current home to shed light on my homeland by means off comparison. 

Rise is absolutely correct: Japan has its own massive social issues which may be equally as devastating.


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## RISE (Feb 18, 2021)

Jin said:


> I am really enjoying this discourse. Some really insightful and incredible responses.
> 
> I did not mean to set this up as a Japan vs America thing. Just using my current home to shed light on my homeland by means off comparison.
> 
> Rise is absolutely correct: Japan has its own massive social issues which may be equally as devastating.



If my response using Japans social issues as an example came off as standoffish, that was not my intention.  I honestly couldn't remember if it was japan or china.  Probably both now that i think of it.

I do know that both cultures focus on a person's social status as paramount, so even though they may be making good money working at a 711 or what have you, socially or within their family they may be looked down on.  Also I feel like many, including myself, who make decent money at meaningless jobs, always have an inferiority complex.  Making money and meaningful contributions to society are no longer synonymous in today's world, and I think that phucks with alot of people who are stuck in the situation of making money off frivolous work.


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## Jin (Feb 18, 2021)

RISE said:


> If my response using Japans social issues as an example came off as standoffish, that was not my intention.  I honestly couldn't remember if it was japan or china.  Probably both now that i think of it.
> 
> I do know that both cultures focus on a person's social status as paramount, so even though they may be making good money working at a 711 or what have you, socially or within their family they may be looked down on.  Also I feel like many, including myself, who make decent money at meaningless jobs, always have an inferiority complex.  Making money and meaningful contributions to society are no longer synonymous in today's world, and I think that phucks with alot of people who are stuck in the situation of making money off frivolous work.



I hadn’t applied any judgement to your statements. No worries. 

China- status is supremely important. Lower suicide rate. 

Japan- conformity with social norms is supremely important. High suicide rate. 

The two cultures have very little in common except written language, architecture, chopsticks and group>individual. 

In my rural community nobody is looking down on others because of their job status. They may be shunned if they are not living up to societal expectations, however. 

Sorry, I don’t want to derail the topic at hand, which is America. If anyone wants a focused thread on something on Eastern culture I can do my best to address inquiries.


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## Gadawg (Feb 18, 2021)

I pay $2k a month for two kids to go to daycare. That dont help.


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## CJ (Feb 18, 2021)

Gadawg said:


> I pay $2k a month for two kids to go to daycare. That dont help.



Cheaper to just buy a shed and a padlock. :32 (20):


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## Jin (Feb 18, 2021)

Gadawg said:


> I pay $2k a month for two kids to go to daycare. That dont help.



$200 a month for two kids here. Nope, not joking. Maybe another reason there is no underclass.

And yes, the government is involved. I don’t think there really is much private daycare.


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 19, 2021)

Gadawg said:


> I pay $2k a month for two kids to go to daycare. That dont help.


Easy solution is to pick up a homeless man out of an back alley dumpster, and pay him in malt liqour to baby sit your kids. The same principles as daddy daycare... sort of.


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## FlyingPapaya (Feb 19, 2021)

Selling your kids on Craigslist is the obvious answer.


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## Sezven (Feb 19, 2021)

John Ziegler said:


> 1987
> 
> worked at Carl's Jr. for 20 mins, went through the 2 days training and the whole bit
> 
> ...



Jack n the box right out of highschool. The funniest part is I moved from kansas city to Denver for the job. A wise decision. Lol


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## Bearmance (Feb 19, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> Lets put some numbers to this.
> 
> In 1987 the minimum wage was $3.35. Adjusted for inflation, that $3.35 is roughly $7.88 per hour in todays dollars according to the US-BoLS.
> 
> ...




Inflation, quantitative easing or the printing of money is all the same thing.  A unseen tax and theft on everyone using dollars. Looking quickly at an inflation calculator the difference between 1987 and today is 230%.  Which means in just the last 34 years they have more than halved the buying power of the dollar. 

Along with this they have tens of millions of undocumented workers in the US.   I personally know people in the construction industry who hire illegals.  Not only to be able to pay them less and avoid health insurance and other such costs, but here's the kicker, they loan them their social security numbers so they can document the labor for the business.  This makes them pay into their social security funds giving them a massive retirement bonus.  Meanwhile the people go use the tax payer funded health systems Iron1 mentioned in the other posts.  I am sure this takes place in other industries as well. 

Couple this with the GIGANTIC surplus of available lower skilled labor; such as working at a gas station like Jin originally mentioned.  Now add on top of that all the jobs that were moved overseas for cheap labor.  Because we don't place much of a tax or tariff on these cheap goods American industry can't compete with exploited labor so new industry doesn't pop up anymore. Japan regulates these things well and the US just leaves the door open.

I don't know if America can dig itself out of this hole, but it sure as hell can't do it voting for the lesser of two evils. It can't do it voting for career politicians who have been in office for the past 30 or 40 years. They are the ones who ruined it in the first place to line their pockets and their owners. It's a sinking ship.


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## Janoy Cresva (Feb 22, 2021)

I blame boomers who sold their sons' and grandsons' inheritance to China for cheap comforts. The senile fool we have as president is a great representation of that generation.


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## Solomc (Feb 22, 2021)

Yup!! Unfortunately....


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## ATLRigger (Feb 22, 2021)

Janoy Cresva said:


> I blame boomers who sold their sons' and grandsons' inheritance to China for cheap comforts..


What he said !!


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 22, 2021)

Janoy Cresva said:


> I blame boomers who sold their sons' and grandsons' inheritance to China for cheap comforts. The senile fool we have as president is a great representation of that generation.


Ha! Well I blame both boomers and millenials for sending this country to the dumpster.


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## Janoy Cresva (Feb 22, 2021)

JackDMegalomaniac said:


> Ha! Well I blame both boomers and millenials for sending this country to the dumpster.



Personally I'm not sure if enough time has passed to judge millennials, but it's not looking good. 

Don't know if it's been mentioned but suburban white women have a lot of responsibility for this too. Brb actively voting for and supporting agendas that go against your best interests. Well now your daughters are going to compete for scholarships with men in skirts.


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 22, 2021)

Janoy Cresva said:


> . Well now your daughters are going to compete for scholarships with men in skirts.









Only the strong survive, and apparently men in dresses are the strongest :32 (18):


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## Janoy Cresva (Feb 23, 2021)

JackDMegalomaniac said:


> pic of big Lenny



Woah! Look at that freak!


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## Joliver (Mar 26, 2021)

This is societal commentary...not even all that political. You can disagree with me on this...but in a few years there will be no denying it. Look at the suicide numbers. Then factor in that each suicide could be a mass casualty event because...why not--because the box in the corner tells you every day who is to blame for your hopeless situation. 

Creating a society that doesn't make hopeless situations never dawned on leadership, I suppose. So...get ready for the thunderdome. 



Joliver said:


> I think it was Deadlifter's post that said that there was a cultural difference where people would rather sit and do nothing. There will always be lazy and worthless people. But this number is dramatically increased by societal dropout from people that just...quit. When the unemployment numbers come out, it never counts the people who just stopped searching. Those people are so dangerous to society. So dangerous that civilizations have dealt with unemployed military age males with no hope of advancement with afterlife accolades (celibate priesthood, Muslim martyrdom, etc).
> 
> This is something that will be an issue. One push too far will spark something that cannot be undone.





The Colorado shooter: 

Racially motivated, politically radicalized shooter that lamented online that he couldn't find a girlfriend. No upward mobility...no family. Nothing to work for. No hope. He decided to burn it down. 

https://thepostmillennial.com/revea...rump-sentiment-reportedly-had-isis-sympathies

The Georgia shooter:

He was what pop culture calls involuntarily celibate. Killed because of a "sex addiction" when he ran out of money to serve it. No meaningful job. Lived on and off in a halfway house. No hope. Decided to burn it down.

https://breaking911.com/watch-chero...ks-on-massage-parlor-attacks-the-left-8-dead/


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## Iron1 (Mar 26, 2021)

Joliver said:


> Creating a society that doesn't make hopeless situations never dawned on leadership, I suppose. So...get ready for the thunderdome.



Poetic in a way, isn't it? Those that lead society have, but for rare circumstance, never been a part of it.

I think I hear fiddle music...


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## Joliver (Mar 26, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> Poetic in a way, isn't it? Those that lead society have, but for rare circumstance, never been a part of it.
> 
> I think I hear fiddle music...



As long as I'm making predictions, I'll say impunity is finite. Text me when I'm batting a thousand in this thread.


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Mar 26, 2021)

I was raised in an household where where being unsuccessful is looked down upon. The worse thing that could ever happen is to have a worthless job where Im stuck at. 

This made my brother a complete failure, but I go past all expectations of me. The only thing I want to life is to be at the top of what I am. 

I was always taught you play smart first, then work hard second.

So yes, I look down on lower class people who dont have the drive to excel at their work, and/or the intelligence. But I respect anyone who works hard, and who can have confidence in their work.


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## white ape (Mar 26, 2021)

I don’t agree with looking down on anyone. You don’t know their story. How are you to judge them? Some are born with lower intelligence or it was never cultivated in them due to having lousy parents or whatever. 

some of the happiest people I have ever met work in restaurants and live 3 generations to an apartment in San Clemente CA. Work 30 hours a week and enjoy the beach. Each person has their life to live. I would be completely happy to get out of this rat race and live in a van traveling around. You can’t take it with you when you die. 



JackDMegalomaniac said:


> I was raised in an household where where being unsuccessful is looked down upon. The worse thing that could ever happen is to have a worthless job where Im stuck at.
> 
> This made my brother a complete failure, but I go past all expectations of me. The only thing I want to life is to be at the top of what I am.
> 
> ...


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## Janoy Cresva (Mar 27, 2021)

white ape said:


> I don’t agree with looking down on anyone. You don’t know their story. How are you to judge them? Some are born with lower intelligence or it was never cultivated in them due to having lousy parents or whatever.
> 
> some of the happiest people I have ever met work in restaurants and live 3 generations to an apartment in San Clemente CA. Work 30 hours a week and enjoy the beach. Each person has their life to live. I would be completely happy to get out of this rat race and live in a van traveling around. You can’t take it with you when you die.



Agreed. I would just like to add that bartenders and cocktail waitresses can easily make 75 - 100 grand depending on the restaurant. That's pretty much the hard cap though.

And it's a young person's game. Especially for cocktail servers


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## TeddyBear (Mar 27, 2021)

Systemic.

As a teacher in a different city than I live in, I see the difference.

In my neighborhood, the students I serve asked me for a resume template to help apply for jobs. They listed coursework, volunteerism, experience making money on the side.

My students who are rural: they listed “didn’t get suspended”, “bench body weight”, “maintained 2.0 GPA”.

Actually very little in terms of academic achievement. Both groups are immature and dumb.

The difference is the skills parents instill or help. My white collar (white) kids are advised to list volunteerism and school accomplishments (even dumb kids can correctly claim time management and cooperation as skills). My blue collar (Hispanic) students think “I haven’t done anything noteworthy” and struggle to acknowledge they accomplished the same amount.

Thats a gross oversimplification, because some kids have more opportunities, for sure. Less distractions.

But even my kid who has to feed grandma, work the fields, babysit every night. They SHOULD list those as duties, that WOULD earn them scholarships (I’m on the committee!) but they don’t. Their families value education just as much or more than my white kids, they just get less guidance because their parents don’t know how best to support them through the system.

As a teacher I try my very best to guide the kids. To succeed they have to play by OUR (the systems) rules, then they can go their own direction to shape change. But I see the process continue.

DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE PREDATORY MILITARY RECRUITERS. They lie so hard to my kids and place them in the crappiest jobs regardless of skills because they don’t know better.


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Mar 27, 2021)

white ape said:


> I don’t agree with looking down on anyone. You don’t know their story. How are you to judge them? Some are born with lower intelligence or it was never cultivated in them due to having lousy parents or whatever.
> 
> some of the happiest people I have ever met work in restaurants and live 3 generations to an apartment in San Clemente CA. Work 30 hours a week and enjoy the beach. Each person has their life to live. I would be completely happy to get out of this rat race and live in a van traveling around. You can’t take it with you when you die.


 I don't care what someones story is, theres no excuse. I was dealt a bad hand in life, but I take 100% of the blame for my failures. 

And I think that people earn what they are worth. Its hard to say that you cant achieve what you want because you arnt naturally smart enough. But thats just a fact of nature. 

I agree that there are different strokes for different folks. Do what you want, I cant stop you.


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## Jin (Mar 27, 2021)

JackDMegalomaniac said:


> I don't care what someones story is, theres no excuse. I was dealt a bad hand in life, but I take 100% of the blame for my failures.
> 
> And I think that people earn what they are worth. Its hard to say that you cant achieve what you want because you arnt naturally smart enough. But thats just a fact of nature.
> 
> I agree that there are different strokes for different folks. Do what you want, I cant stop you.



Lack of empathy is a symptom of youth.

Your view will soften over time because life is hard and not cut and dry.


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## white ape (Mar 27, 2021)

im trying to remember that I was your age once. Let me tell you a little story. I grew up in rural Michigan. No blacks where I grew up. One openly gay dude in school that I saw get punched in the face. Interracial relationships were frowned upon. At least in my family. Gays would burn in hell. 9/11 had just happened so everyone was excited to go shoot towel heads due to patriotism. Weed was a dangerous drug that would leave you in the gutter with a needle in your arm. 

So I went to Marine boot camp a week after I graduated highschool. He never been on a plane before. I talked to a black person for the first time. Pissed next to them (3 to a pisser in boot camp). Was with people from all walks of life. Rich kids. Poor kids. Mexicans who grew up picky citrus to feed their families. This was on and on my entire career. 

you know what I am most grateful for from my 8 years of service? I learn two things. One is that most Muslims don’t hate me and don’t want to kill me because they have never even heard of the United States. Secondly is that I have a more open mind. When I left service I worked 90 hour weeks 7 days a week. Now I put in 50 hours a week Monday through Friday. I refuse to work those hours like I used to. I rather see my kid in the evenings or cook breakfast for my family in the morning before I go to work. Am I a lazy piece of shit now? Maybe, and that’s fine. 

the point of all this is that I used to have very hardcore stances on my lines of thinking. Things were black and white. Dude I remember when I was your age I told my suicidal mother that depression is bullshit and not real. Guess what? Karma is a bitch and I’ve dealt with a ton of depression over the last few years and was medicated for a bit. I no longer think gay people are evil. I no longer think Muslims are all terrorists that need to be eradicated from earth. Things are not black and white. 

I don’t know man. My message is probably faking on deaf ears here. Either way you will learn for yourself over the course of your life. Take care Jack 






JackDMegalomaniac said:


> I don't care what someones story is, theres no excuse. I was dealt a bad hand in life, but I take 100% of the blame for my failures.
> 
> And I think that people earn what they are worth. Its hard to say that you cant achieve what you want because you arnt naturally smart enough. But thats just a fact of nature.
> 
> I agree that there are different strokes for different folks. Do what you want, I cant stop you.


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## Mind2muscle (Mar 27, 2021)

white ape said:


> im trying to remember that I was your age once. Let me tell you a little story. I grew up in rural Michigan. No blacks where I grew up. One openly gay dude in school that I saw get punched in the face. Interracial relationships were frowned upon. At least in my family. Gays would burn in hell. 9/11 had just happened so everyone was excited to go shoot towel heads due to patriotism. Weed was a dangerous drug that would leave you in the gutter with a needle in your arm.
> 
> So I went to Marine boot camp a week after I graduated highschool. He never been on a plane before. I talked to a black person for the first time. Pissed next to them (3 to a pisser in boot camp). Was with people from all walks of life. Rich kids. Poor kids. Mexicans who grew up picky citrus to feed their families. This was on and on my entire career.
> 
> ...



Nicely stated.


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