# Proper PCT Protocol



## joeyirish777 (May 5, 2020)

THIS IS NOT A GUIDE, THIS IS ME TRYING TO LEARN.

I have noticed 3 different PCT protocols which have been often recommended. However, which one is more affective is my question. Perhaps this is not even a question but more of a thread to discuss overlapping data between the 3 protocols. 

For simplicity's sake I will name them Protocol 1,2, and 3. Also this is based on the idea that the subject has done the basic 12 week cycle of Test E 250mg E3.5D. No taper, no up-down dosing non-sense, nothing else. This is also with the assumption that he pinned right and managed estrogen levels effectively with blood tests, a solid diet, and Aromasin.

Protocol 1:
-After last injection of test e, wait 10-14 days to begin HCG in order to time the up-tick of LH to max out right when when test levels reach around 250-350ng/dl around the 32 day mark(32 days after last test injections).
-Inject HCG 2000mu every 2 days for 20 days (again timing LH levels to the depletion of the esters)
-Begin both Clomid (50mg(2x)ED for 2 weeks) and Nolva (20mg ED for 4 weeks) 3-4 days after last HCG pin...

Interpretation - Main point of this cycle is to time the maximum affect of HCG on LH levels exactly or right before the bottom vertex of the bodies testosterone levels. This protocol seems to be purely oriented to support the bodies natural signaling. This will, in theory and several documented cases, keep the body's testosterone levels from dropping below 250-350ng/dl. 


Protocol 2:
-Begin injecting 1000mu E2D of HCG 2 weeks out from last injection of testosterone. 
-Stop HCG injections with last test injections
-Wait 3-4 days for HCG to be expunged and begin clomid/nolva part of PCT... Clomid (50mgED for 2 weeks) and Nolva (20mg ED for 4 weeks)

Interpretation - I dont like the idea of this one.. The idea here is kickstarting the nuts before the body signals the nuts to start working again. So when the nuts do get that signal, they already have a head start. This protocol doesn't work alongside the bodies natural signaling like protocol 1 does and seems all too aggressive and impractical


Protocol 3:
-Begin HCG injections of 250mu E2D starting with the 2nd pin of test.
-Stop HCG injections 1 pin after last pin of testosterone
-Wait 3-4 days for HCG to be expunged and begin clomid/nolva part of PCT... Clomid (50mgED for 2 weeks) and Nolva (20mg ED for 4 weeks)

Interpretation - The idea here being never letting the nuts fully deactivate and always having a small but steady flow of baseline testosterone for when the exogenous testosterone depletes. I have not seen any studies on this protocol but have seen people discuss it and it is very intriguing. It seems like a pretty nifty hack to a cycle. If there are studies then I apologize

Others:
I have noticed quite a few people support switching to prop for the last month of the cycle and just waiting 3 days after that last pin to begin HCG which makes sense to me but again for simplicity sake I left it out. Another protocol I have seen is waiting 4-7 days after last pin of test to begin HCG injections.. also seems aggressive and impractical

Side Notes.
Protocol 1... William Llewellyn's "Anabolics", 10th edition. Protocol 1 is my short interpretation of Llewellyn's protocol he presents in his book which he notes he derived mainly from Dr. Scally's protocol.

Protocol 2... Reddits PCT Protocol 2/3. I know it's a bust protocol but it offers good variance to P1 and P3 and that guide(not specific protocol) has received quite a bit of praise..

Protocol 3... I have seen this protocol mentioned quite a bit. Possibly worded differently from what I have presented and I don't have a proper source to cite. 

Perhaps different PCT protocols should be advised for different situations as well such 1st time cycles, age group, diet and training, etc..

I apologize if I have created a monstrosity here. I did try to cram as much 'greenie' info into as short a read as possible. This is the knowledge wall of PCT that I am at


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## joeyirish777 (May 7, 2020)

I take it that no quick criticism on facts implies I am somewhat on the right track. still have a long way to go. Correction on HCG.. HCG mimics LH, not boosts it.


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## kimjongun (May 8, 2020)

joeyirish777 said:


> Interpretation - I dont like the idea of this one.. The idea here is kickstarting the nuts before the body signals the nuts to start working again. So when the nuts do get that signal, they already have a head start. This protocol doesn't work alongside the bodies natural signaling like protocol 1 does and seems all too aggressive and impractical



I'm no expert, and am also trying to get this worked out too, coming back after about 15 years natural.

I think I generally agree with your interpretations of the intent of the 3 philosophies you've outlined.  There might be one aspect of protocol 2 (w.r.t. timing of the HCG) that actually does make good sense.  Try finding some article or discussions about LH receptor down regulation with HCG use.

I've seen some chatter about avoiding using HCG post cycle because it can basically make your body less responsive to the natural LH you're trying to get it producing again.  Or something like that.  Again, I'm still trying to get it figured out as well, but have another look at that one.  I'm actually leaning toward doing something like proto 2, but with quite a bit lower dose of HCG.

What do you think?


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## joeyirish777 (May 8, 2020)

kimjongun said:


> I'm no expert, and am also trying to get this worked out too, coming back after about 15 years natural.
> 
> I think I generally agree with your interpretations of the intent of the 3 philosophies you've outlined.  There might be one aspect of protocol 2 (w.r.t. timing of the HCG) that actually does make good sense.  Try finding some article or discussions about LH receptor down regulation with HCG use.
> 
> ...



I see what your saying and that specific protocol I think often varies a lot which does offer some customization to an individual which I like. I have seen a lot of info of HCG down regulating those receptors. I also think it is something that everyone should be very cautious of avoiding. I wouldn't personally use 2000mu in regards to p1. I mainly wanted to cite llewellyn's interpretation correctly. However...

My only thing with chosing an extremely low dose of HCG is... where is the literature determining a specific dosage range that causes the down regulation of LH receptors? end "substantial doses" like 2000mu could just be in a golden range, we dont know.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9037195
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4345741/

In the first study they determine hCG causes the down reg of LH receptors at 30-100mu... for rats.. specifically rat cultured granulosa cells. So the LH receptors were literally removed from the rat and directly exposed to 30-100mu of HCG for 48 HOURS. I believe the equation for dosage for rat to human is 6.2. so the range would be 186-620+mu in humans... IF, your granulosa cells with LH receptors were cut out and directly exposed to those doses of hCG. Totally different environment than inside the human body.

The 2nd study determines that hCG shortens the half-life of the LH receptors(LHR or the the LHR mRNA pathway) by almost three fold, even when exposed to just 10mu of hCG.. in human cultured cells. There will always be a down reg, but at how much is it irreversible? generally speaking. 

The 2nd study goes very deep into the nature of hCG if your interested. Some cool stuff regarding ways of possibly halting all deregulation of LHR mRNA.


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