# Another DNP run...



## flenser (Oct 8, 2021)

This isn't going to be a log. I'm too lazy for that. I just felt I had been stepping on everyone else's threads too much. So if anything interesting happens, or if I'm miserable and just need a place to whine, I'll post it here : )

I started a new run last Wednesday, 200mg as before, taken in the morning. This time I'm being careful to stay in a deficit ~500 calories. I also added 300mg tren-e to my normal TRT 100mg test. I may have been doing that before, but I don't remember for sure. I like tren, and I doubt I'll notice any night sweats it causes.

And just to make things interesting I'm taking 15mg sibutramine eod which from past experience raises my temp by about a half degree even on days I don't take it. It also tends to slow digestion which I'm hoping will alleviate some of the, err, explosive effects of DNP. No issues so far. My snack of choice is raw broccoli (with LOTS of salt!), since it provides a lot of colon filling bulk that has worked to moderate my appetite in the past.

So the sum of appetite suppressants I'm using is tren, sibutramine and raw broccoli. Well, that and coffee, but I've been coffee saturated most of my adult life. I'm mostly immune to it anymore. 

Today is day 10 which is about when the last run really kicked in on the sweating, but so far sides have been pretty mild. My weight isn't falling through the floor like it did last time either, but I'm seeing almost daily changes in the mirror. I also crossed that annoying threshold of having only cloths that are too big or too small.

Strength is down, but not radically. I actually hit a bench PR yesterday with my slowly healing RC tear, though that is less about strength than healing. I'm also able to do 10 unaided pull ups for the first time since the lock downs, also little to do with strength, but it did improve my mood in the gym. Cardio capacity is really down. On a 30 mile road ride yesterday I had to stop pedaling a couple of times to catch my breath, and usually I'm able to ride with my mouth closed. BP is low as well, it was 107/78 (pulse 94!) this morning when it is normally in the low 120's. I wonder if that has something to do with the cardio affects. Temperature was 98.2 which is slightly high for me.

I was going to just do a two week run, but I completely stopped drinking on or off DNP, so I have no pressing reason to keep it short. I won't be drinking at social events either way. I'm thinking I should keep it going as long as I can handle it without giving in to nightly carb binges. The closest cycle ending event on my schedule is a possible Caribbean vacation in December. I'm sure those islands have travel restriction against teetotaling tourists, and I'll need a "rum passport" to get in. If I run this into December, I'll probably starve to death anyway.


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## flenser (Oct 10, 2021)

I should have known. Two days after I said the sides were mild they hit me fill force. Going to delay the next dose until this evening, and drop it to 100mg for a bit. There are no snacks in the house, so I think I'm safe in the short term.


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## Trump (Oct 10, 2021)

Tren and dnp is miserable lasted 3 days


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## flenser (Oct 10, 2021)

Trump said:


> Tren and dnp is miserable lasted 3 days


Could be what happened on my first run. I think I had added in 100mg tren at the time, but dropped it along with everything else when I started binging. I hadn't been on it long, maybe 4-5 weeks. It might sound dumb, but I'm convinced it gives me some extra resolve when I have to write a lot of code in a short amount of time. The DNP had other plans, though!


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 10, 2021)

Brother, I'd recommend getting the binging under control before hopping on the DNP wagon again. Good idea not to add anything else, that'll make things harder, into the mix either.

I'm seeing a lot of logs with people getting temporary results and nothing more. Fine if you just want to look great for a short while (summer holiday or w/e) but if you want the results to be permanent then...at some point...mentality needs to be dialed in before the drugs come into play. JM2C.


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## Beti ona (Oct 10, 2021)

flenser said:


> I also crossed that annoying threshold of having only cloths that are too big or too small.



I hate that sensation at bedtime, a sheet makes me warm, if I remove it, I'll be a little cold. Uncomfortable both ways.


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## Beti ona (Oct 10, 2021)

Broccoli with salt, that seems slightly better than my trick: broccoli wih raw garlic


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## flenser (Oct 10, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Brother, I'd recommend getting the binging under control before hopping on the DNP wagon again. Good idea not to add anything else, that'll make things harder, into the mix either.
> 
> I'm seeing a lot of logs with people getting temporary results and nothing more. Fine if you just want to look great for a short while (summer holiday or w/e) but if you want the results to be permanent then...at some point...mentality needs to be dialed in before the drugs come into play. JM2C.


Thanks brother. I get what you are saying, and don't disagree. The binging, though, happened during the last (my first) DNP run. I went into it unprepared, and paid for it. I still lost plenty of fat, but it could have been a lot better. I am better prepared this time.

I'm not really interested in keeping BF extremely low, and have been fairly successful over the years at staying around 15% with the occasional seasonal slacking off to 20% or so. But the lock downs were a real problem for me for personal reasons, and I didn't handle things well. Another case of being unprepared, I suppose. When I'm extremely stressed, I eat : )

So DNP seems like a good way to get myself back to my old semi-fit self. And it's working very well. I'm not far from my old 15% now, actually. Though somewhere along the way I decided to see if I could get below 10% BF, just to see what it looks like on me. If I can make it, I'm sure I won't be able to hold it long. My wife's cooking will see to that. Anyway, I turn 60 next year. The only one in my life I still care to impress is my wife, and she doesn't care if I'm ripped or fat, as long as I take out the trash and walk the dog every night.


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## flenser (Oct 10, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> Broccoli with salt, that seems slightly better than my trick: broccoli wih raw garlic


I'm a salt fiend! Been that way since I was a kid. Fortunately, I'm not one of the 30% or so of the population that responds poorly to excess salt.


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## metsfan4life (Oct 11, 2021)

Trump said:


> Tren and dnp is miserable lasted 3 days


Pansy. I probably run Tren too often tho


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## flenser (Oct 11, 2021)

Had a work deadline today that required some technical discussion with two other engineers in an over warm office. By the time we got through everything I was drenched in sweat and could barely speak above a whisper. I just said it's some meds I'm on, and no one asked what. They see me shrinking and probably think I have cancer...


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## FearThaGear (Oct 11, 2021)

What kind of weight loss have you experienced in these 10 days with the 200mg?


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## flenser (Oct 11, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> What kind of weight loss have you experienced in these 10 days with the 200mg?


I think it's 12 days, and just 6 lbs so far. That's not including the 4 lb drop on the first day that I gained on my "last meal" the previous day.


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## The Tater (Oct 12, 2021)

It’s bulking season at my house but I enjoy reading the dnp threads. Good luck


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## flenser (Oct 12, 2021)

The Tater said:


> It’s bulking season at my house but I enjoy reading the dnp threads. Good luck


We all like to watch other's suffer : )


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## Kraken (Oct 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> ... It might sound dumb, but I'm convinced it gives me some extra resolve when I have to write a lot of code in a short amount of time. The DNP had other plans, though!


What gives you extra resolve to write code?  Whatever it is I need some. I just can't get my ass in gear lately, and the work is piling up. I look at my editor, I know I can do it, I just don't.

I have been feeling pretty fat lately as well, I just got back from 2 weeks traveling, which means bad eating discipline, and the DNP is sitting there ready. 

For those asking how much weight is dropped after a week, remember that most people will retain water when using DNP, so it's really hard to tell during a short run until after its been discontinued for a few days. Longer runs show results as you go, after a week or so, but the big loss still shows up after you stop.


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## flenser (Oct 12, 2021)

Kraken said:


> What gives you extra resolve to write code?  Whatever it is I need some. I just can't get my ass in gear lately, and the work is piling up. I look at my editor, I know I can do it, I just don't.
> 
> I have been feeling pretty fat lately as well, I just got back from 2 weeks traveling, which means bad eating discipline, and the DNP is sitting there ready.
> 
> For those asking how much weight is dropped after a week, remember that most people will retain water when using DNP, so it's really hard to tell during a short run until after its been discontinued for a few days. Longer runs show results as you go, after a week or so, but the big loss still shows up after you stop.


A lot of people say tren makes them aggressive. I don't really get that feeling, but I do get a little OCD about completing things on time. As soon as I start getting distracted I start worrying about finishing late, and that drives me back to the code. Something like that.

"I look at my editor, I know I can do it, I just don't", that's exactly the feeling I can't handle when on tren. Wish I had known about the stuff in college. I once played "Red Barron" for 20 hours straight the day before a final. I didn't study or sleep at all.


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## flenser (Oct 14, 2021)

Learned yesterday I (may) have to do a presentation first or second week of November for some customers with deep pockets. I'll end this run in two more weeks. No way I'm going in there in a suit drenched in sweat. To get the most out of the run, I'm upping the dose to 400mg.


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## Trump (Oct 14, 2021)

flenser said:


> Learned yesterday I (may) have to do a presentation first or second week of November for some customers with deep pockets. I'll end this run in two more weeks. No way I'm going in there in a suit drenched in sweat. To get the most out of the run, I'm upping the dose to 400mg.


So your planning to up the dose for 2 weeks?


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## flenser (Oct 14, 2021)

Trump said:


> So your planning to up the dose for 2 weeks?


Does seem a little pointless in light of the blood concentration thread.


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## Trump (Oct 14, 2021)

flenser said:


> Does seem a little pointless in light of the blood concentration thread.


That’s not pointless but if you already been on a week your not even getting the sides what’s the rush upping the dose you still have 2 weeks left to go?


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## flenser (Oct 14, 2021)

Trump said:


> That’s not pointless but if you already been on a week your not even getting the sides what’s the rush upping the dose you still have 2 weeks left to go?


That's a good point. I'm mostly concerned I won't be able to do another run until at least January when I wanted to be done with all this eating in a deficit nonsense : ) 

Not that I can't lose the rest the old fashioned way, but a few extra pounds dropped on DNP now would save as much as 2 weeks cutting later when I can't run DNP.


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## flenser (Oct 15, 2021)

It's probably a mistake, but I did up the dose to 400mg. One in the morning one at night.


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## dirtys1x (Oct 16, 2021)

flenser said:


> It's probably a mistake, but I did up the dose to 400mg. One in the morning one at night.


One of the very few I’ve seen venture into that realm. Curious how long you’ll be able to hold out on that for.


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## metsfan4life (Oct 16, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> One of the very few I’ve seen venture into that realm. Curious how long you’ll be able to hold out on that for.


There’s a lot of people here that run 400g for a while. That’s my normal doses most of the time


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## dirtys1x (Oct 16, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> There’s a lot of people here that run 400g for a while. That’s my normal doses most of the time


With the tren too?


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## metsfan4life (Oct 16, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> With the tren too?


yes, no issue for me. everyone reacts different to both. most have the same sides on DNP but it will vary based on dosage tolerance. as far as tren, we all know everyone has different effects. I get zero sweat, zero aggression, etc. so I can run both with ease


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## flenser (Oct 16, 2021)

Tren doesn't seem to be an issue for me either. The DNP sides dwarf what I get from tren.


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## flenser (Oct 17, 2021)

My original goal when I started cutting, even before I considered DNP was to get back to 15% bf which used to be around 220 lbs. I was close to 280 lbs at the time. I'm at 225 lbs now, and it's painfully obvious I'm no where near 15%. Looks more like 20-25%.

A little algebra and I come up with lean mass of 169 lbs to 180lbs. I don't even want to think about how much muscle I lost!. Anyway, to get to 15% I need to be between 198 lbs and 212 lbs. And to get to 10% I need to be between 187 lbs and 200 lbs. 

Changing the end goal to 200 lbs before the end of the year seems very doable, even if I have to end the DNP run early (the 30th will probably be the last day). Then I can finally end the deficit eating and begin regaining some of the muscle I lost. 

I'm guessing the DNP will be good for another 8 lbs plus whatever drop I get from ending the run. Worse case is maybe around 15 lbs to lose in November and December without DNP. If I don't make it, or if the results aren't as good as I expect, I'll probably do one more DNP run in January.


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## Yano (Oct 17, 2021)

Right on man , it's no fun losing weight , been at it for two years now , from 305 to 215 and I still look fat lol. Good Luck on your goal !!


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## flenser (Oct 17, 2021)

Yano said:


> Right on man , it's no fun losing weight , been at it for two years now , from 305 to 215 and I still look fat lol. Good Luck on your goal !!


Two years, damn. You're doing it the right way, though, taking the time to develop good habits. I saw a DL video you posted a while back. Doesn't look like you have all that far left to go.


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## Yano (Oct 17, 2021)

flenser said:


> Two years, damn. You're doing it the right way, though, taking the time to develop good habits. I saw a DL video you posted a while back. Doesn't look like you have all that far left to go.


Instead of dieting , i just accepted I had to change how I ate , dropped drinking most of my calories , no more processed sugar , once a week I'll do like a refeed day for some carbs and I'll knock back a fat bowl of fro yo. I've had some help along the way trying out different things in research it wasn't all will power. I'm at 215 now , I thought I would be done at 250 lol apparently whats left of me under here is way smaller than I anticipated, it is a bit unsettling to be honest. Looking to hit 200 now maybe 195 and see where I'm at before trying to start adding in a few hundred calories every few weeks and see if i can regain some of my size and more strength. Want that 500 so bad I can taste it.


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## flenser (Oct 18, 2021)

The sides definitely increased with the dose. On Saturday I bumped it up to 600mg just on impulse. I know it's early, but the increased sides are still pretty manageable.

No issues with binging at all this time. I credit the Sibutramine with taking the edge off the cravings. I've run it before by itself and it's pretty effective at discouraging big meals. The stimulation effect is secondary. The stuff is getting hard to find, though. All I've seen lately is raws/powder, and capping my own is pretty low on my entertainment list. Oh well, I have enough for my purposes.

The sweating is in high gear. It doesn't really bother me, but my wife hates it. It will be interesting to see if I make it to the 30th or if she takes it away from me before then!


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## Beti ona (Oct 18, 2021)

Why did you lose so much muscle? Why did you lose so much muscle?


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## flenser (Oct 18, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> Why did you lose so much muscle? Why did you lose so much muscle?


I don't think it has anything to do with the diet. I had two back to back shoulder injuries with the first requiring surgery. So I spent a lot of time not lifting much, and then going out with the wife several times a week for dinner and drinks. Turns out to be a really bad combination for keeping muscle : )


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## Kraken (Oct 18, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> Why did you lose so much muscle? Why did you lose so much muscle?


He probably only lost half as much as you thought...


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## flenser (Oct 18, 2021)

Just discovered I can do dips again. I couldn't really do them when I was 250, so I must be getting stronger yes??


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## In2Deep (Oct 18, 2021)

flenser said:


> That's a good point. I'm mostly concerned I won't be able to do another run until at least January when I wanted to be done with all this eating in a deficit nonsense : )
> 
> Not that I can't lose the rest the old fashioned way, but a few extra pounds dropped on DNP now would save as much as 2 weeks cutting later when I


Depending on how many times you've run it it may not feel like when you first did. DNP ALWAYS works whether you feel it or not. Where guys run into problems is for whatever reason they feel they need to up the dose and fick themselves up. Stick with the plan and run the course. Thats always my advice.


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## flenser (Oct 18, 2021)

In2Deep said:


> Depending on how many times you've run it it may not feel like when you first did. DNP ALWAYS works whether you feel it or not. Where guys run into problems is for whatever reason they feel they need to up the dose and fick themselves up. Stick with the plan and run the course. Thats always my advice.


I mostly upped the dose because the plan got cut short at the same time I realized I needed to lose more fat than I had predicted. I had wondered, though, if there was less fat loss going on after I figured out how to minimize the sides. 

In theory I could drop to 100mg per day, have no sides, and still increase fat loss for the rest of the year. I say in theory, because I would have to hide them from my wife. Never seen her so negative on something before.


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## Beti ona (Oct 19, 2021)

Kraken said:


> He probably only lost half as much as you thought...



Yes, everyone thinks they have more muscle than they actually have, catabolism is not that real.


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## tspelling (Oct 19, 2021)

Definitely following. Post some pics before and after?


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## flenser (Oct 20, 2021)

tspelling said:


> Definitely following. Post some pics before and after?


The before pics might cause blindness or madness...  Might post some at the end, though.


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## flenser (Oct 20, 2021)

Looks like I'm off the hook for the presentation. They moved the schedule up to next week, and made it virtual. I won't get much sleep between now and then, but that's normal this time of year. I won't even have to talk unless their tech guys have questions. 

So I'm  going back to 200mg ED and leaving it there probably until the first of the year. If the sides increase I might even drop it to 100mg ED. After all, no one wants to get divorced during the holiday season.


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## Trump (Oct 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> Looks like I'm off the hook for the presentation. They moved the schedule up to next week, and made it virtual. I won't get much sleep between now and then, but that's normal this time of year. I won't even have to talk unless their tech guys have questions.
> 
> So I'm  going back to 200mg ED and leaving it there probably until the first of the year. If the sides increase I might even drop it to 100mg ED. After all, no one wants to get divorced during the holiday season.


Best time to be single


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## flenser (Oct 20, 2021)

Trump said:


> Best time to be single


And homeless? I would lose my home gym, my shop and CNC machines and probably my dog traitor that he is.


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## Kraken (Oct 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> And homeless? I would lose my home gym, my shop and CNC machines and probably my dog traitor that he is.


I got home from a trip, immediately called a lawyer friend and asked him to file the divorce. He got started on it. A week or so later, I had my (now ex) wife saying we should get divorced. I told her fine, I would take care of it. As such, she moved out.


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## flenser (Oct 21, 2021)

Just for the record, my wife and I are very happily married. Not much chance of us breaking it off, ever.


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## flenser (Oct 22, 2021)

Last couple of days I've gotten some joint inflammation - knees, ankles, elbows, hands mostly. They all feel more arthritic than usual too, especially my hands. 

Doesn't seem to be a normal DNP side, quite the opposite from what I've read. Not sure what I've done to cause it other than lower the dose back to a comfortable level. Still staying hydrated, etc. Might brave the local Patient First in the morning to get some blood work, check for infection, etc.


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## Beti ona (Oct 22, 2021)

Muscle and joint pain are common in DNP, I don't remember now what the reason was.


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## metsfan4life (Oct 22, 2021)

I will get cramps more often while on DNp. I get them anyways but more so on DNp. I think it just has to do with the nutrients being used up more. May be adequately hydrated but still does a dumber on the body


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## flenser (Oct 22, 2021)

Wasn't expecting the joint pain, and I was starting to think this stuff had no more surprises. I guess that's why ibuprofen exists...


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## metsfan4life (Oct 22, 2021)

Yeah that’s why they say every DNp run can be vastly different. Sometimes your blow your anus out on the pot and other times you get a bloody nose.


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## flenser (Oct 22, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> Yeah that’s why they say every DNp run can be vastly different. Sometimes your blow your anus out on the pot and other times you get a bloody nose.


I've got both the bloody nose and exploding anus this time as well!


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## Beti ona (Oct 22, 2021)

Remember that fat protects the joints, the leaner you get, the more pain you could have. DNP is accelerating this process. In addition, dehydration will also play a role.


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## MindlessWork (Oct 22, 2021)

Hello and good to see you here too guys!


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## metsfan4life (Oct 23, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> Remember that fat protects the joints, the leaner you get, the more pain you could have. DNP is accelerating this process. In addition, dehydration will also play a role.


Good point!


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## flenser (Oct 23, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> Remember that fat protects the joints, the leaner you get, the more pain you could have. DNP is accelerating this process. In addition, dehydration will also play a role.


The docs have been telling me for years my knees are worn out. Maybe if I get lean enough I'll finally agree to get them replaced. 

I'm still squatting a2g, though. The recent inflammation is mostly an annoyance when I'm sitting in front of the PC working. Just that constant ache distracting me from what I'm working on.


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## flenser (Oct 23, 2021)

MindlessWork said:


> Hello and good to see you here too guys!


Hey man! I didn't know you were here. Good to see you too.


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## MindlessWork (Oct 23, 2021)

flenser said:


> Hey man! I didn't know you were here. Good to see you too.


yeah missed your very profound posts over at Meso. How you liking it here? Been here a while but left for a while.


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## flenser (Oct 23, 2021)

MindlessWork said:


> yeah missed your very profound posts over at Meso. How you liking it here? Been here a while but left for a while.


Lot of good people here, and and very knowledgeable. I'm on a 12 step program to give up political posts. Not quite there yet, but making progress, LOL.


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## flenser (Oct 29, 2021)

Sort of fell off the deficit wagon for a week. Still on 200mg ED, but the loss of strength was starting to really bug me. What surprised me was adding 1000 calories to my existing 500 calorie deficit resulted in a gain of 10 lbs in just over a week, and I gained nothing on any lift. I stupidly kept carbs low to avoid sides.

Fortunately most of the weight came back off the first two days I returned to deficit eating, and I should be back to 225 by next Friday. I guess I would have had to stop the DNP to get some strength back, but I stayed with the 200mg. I guess I'll call it a learning experience instead of a waste of two weeks : )


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## Samp3i (Nov 4, 2021)

Man at your age why are you fucking using dnp it buffle me lol
Probably nothing to lose anymore?


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## flenser (Nov 4, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Man at your age why are you fucking using dnp it buffle me lol
> Probably nothing to lose anymore?


Entertainment mostly. If I thought it was a serious risk I wouldn't be doing it. Not like it deposits lethal spike proteins in my organs or anything crazy like that : )

I'm going to have to stop for a while, though. Work load has picked up, and I'm spending more and more time in fucking meetings in a conference room that's over heated in the winter. I was miserable all day yesterday. It was 60 degrees outside and they had the heat on.


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## Samp3i (Nov 4, 2021)

flenser said:


> Entertainment mostly. If I thought it was a serious risk I wouldn't be doing it. Not like it deposits lethal spike proteins in my organs or anything crazy like that : )
> 
> I'm going to have to stop for a while, though. Work load has picked up, and I'm spending more and more time in fucking meetings in a conference room that's over heated in the winter. I was miserable all day yesterday. It was 60 degrees outside and they had the heat on.


Pherifereal neurhophaty is a possible side effect and a very debilitating one. 

But you are a very grown up person, can definetly make your own choices


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## TODAY (Nov 4, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> *Pherifereal neurhophaty* is a possible side effect and a very debilitating one.
> 
> But you are a very grown up person, can definetly make your own choices


I honestly have no idea how you turned 'peripheral neuropathy' into this word soup but it did give me a giggle.

In any case, the concern is warranted, although peripheral neuropathy isn't exactly a common side-effect.


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## flenser (Nov 4, 2021)

There are early indications for peripheral neuropathy. It's not something that happens overnight and immediately becomes irreversible. I would have stopped had there been the slightest indication.


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## Samp3i (Nov 4, 2021)

TODAY said:


> I honestly have no idea how you turned 'peripheral neuropathy' into this word soup but it did give me a giggle.
> 
> In any case, the concern is warranted, although peripheral neuropathy isn't exactly a common side-effect.


Sorry I'm not English native and the autocorrect didn't correct well 😂


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## flenser (Nov 4, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Sorry I'm not English native and the autocorrect didn't correct well 😂


I knew what you meant, and that's all that counts : )


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## Samp3i (Nov 4, 2021)

flenser said:


> There are early indications for peripheral neuropathy. It's not something that happens overnight and immediately becomes irreversible. I would have stopped had there been the slightest indication.


Sure true, it's not irreversible but it takes months most of the time to revert back to normal. Just be carefull you are still poisoning your body with that shit.


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## TODAY (Nov 4, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Sorry I'm not English native and the autocorrect didn't correct well 😂


All good, dude. I definitely had fun pronouncing it lol


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## flenser (Nov 5, 2021)

I made it to 217, but work is making DNP impossible. New contracts are coming out of the sky, and the number of meetings I'm scheduled for every week has me concerned for my sanity. I'm sure stewing in my own sweat multiple times a day in a 75+ degree conference room would push me over the edge. 

I guess I'm going to have to lose the rest the old fashioned way. I'm hoping the talk of losing a bit more at the end of the run will get me a little lower. I would be ecstatic to hit 210 next week, but I'm not holding my breath.

I was starting to be a little concerned about my BP anyway. This morning it was 104/68 with a 93 pulse. Unless tren works differently on a cut, I have no idea why BP would be that low. I'm probably not staying hydrated enough despite having to piss every 20 minutes. 

Anyway, I'm done with DNP for the rest of the year. I still want to hit 200 by January - and get my DL back to 500 by May! Except for the DL part, it doesn't seem like it will be that hard. Worse case I guess is I could be posting a lower back recovery log early next year : )


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## flenser (Nov 21, 2021)

Is it normal to make significant strength gains right after ending a DNP run? It's been barely two weeks, and my dead lift, for example, is a little above where I was before the cut. I could really get used to that. Would be worth another pre-Christmas run.


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## TiredandHot (Nov 21, 2021)

flenser said:


> Is it normal to make significant strength gains right after ending a DNP run? It's been barely two weeks, and my dead lift, for example, is a little above where I was before the cut. I could really get used to that. Would be worth another pre-Christmas run.


2 weeks, definitely. I've read multiple places that after a week of cessation the body can experience glycogen supercompensation. If you were able to maintain weigh on the bar during your run, I'd say this could be normal.


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## flenser (Nov 21, 2021)

glycogen super compensation... wish I could get that without suffering through night sweats first : ) For a short time it was really cool to add weight every set and still not limit out.

I'm ready for another run for sure. Have to get some work crap out of the way first. Maybe after Thanksgiving.


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## Beti ona (Nov 22, 2021)

Recover or increase strength? I have never seen that, but if there is some kind of anabolism in the form of rebound after cutting the DNP


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## flenser (Nov 23, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> Recover or increase strength? I have never seen that, but if there is some kind of anabolism in the form of rebound after cutting the DNP


Most lifts are about where they were before the cut, but I definitely gained on dead lift. I'm pulling more and moving faster.


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## flenser (Nov 23, 2021)

I'm back on 200mg ed (wife gave me permission!). Sides won't have a chance to kick in until well after Thanksgiving, and work is slowing (I always forget that Europe basically shuts down between now and the first of the year). Odds are I will bump it up to 400mg at some point - see if I can beat the cravings this time. 

I've given up trying to predict what my weight should be. The scale is a lying bitch.. I got heavier after the last run, and still visibly lost fat. I'm just going to go by the mirror for now. Also taking some time off work, though not every day. 

Switching to hiking from biking so I can spend longer on the trails without the DNP wiping me out in the first 20 minutes.


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## Tazz (Nov 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> I'm back on 200mg ed (wife gave me permission!). Sides won't have a chance to kick in until well after Thanksgiving, and work is slowing (I always forget that Europe basically shuts down between now and the first of the year). Odds are I will bump it up to 400mg at some point - see if I can beat the cravings this time.
> 
> I've given up trying to predict what my weight should be. The scale is a lying bitch.. I got heavier after the last run, and still visibly lost fat. I'm just going to go by the mirror for now. Also taking some time off work, though not every day.
> 
> Switching to hiking from biking so I can spend longer on the trails without the DNP wiping me out in the first 20 minutes.



Watching this, interested to hear.


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## Beti ona (Nov 28, 2021)

Forget about the scale and mirrors, take photos before starting the cycle, and 10 days after finishing it. Follow the diet rigorously.


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## Kraken (Nov 29, 2021)

flenser said:


> I've given up trying to predict what my weight should be. The scale is a lying bitch.. I got heavier after the last run, and still visibly lost fat. I'm just going to go by the mirror for now.


So, supposedly DNP causes water retention, scale will show that even though you look better.


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## flenser (Nov 30, 2021)

Kraken said:


> So, supposedly DNP causes water retention, scale will show that even though you look better.


The weight increased a few days after the end of the run, and I was expecting an additional drop when I stopped. I was at 217 and jumped up to 227 over about a 10 day period. Granted, I wasn't in a deficit when it happened. 

I think I figured out what happened, though. I had added 300mg tren-e about the same time as I started the run. It was probably just kicking in when the run was over.

On a slightly different topic, I keep reading one of the sides of DNP is lactic acid buildup. That could make muscles feel fatigued. Wondering if it makes sense to add magnesium in to control it, or if the affect is too small to make a difference.


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## TiredandHot (Nov 30, 2021)

flenser said:


> The weight increased a few days after the end of the run, and I was expecting an additional drop when I stopped. I was at 217 and jumped up to 227 over about a 10 day period. Granted, I wasn't in a deficit when it happened.
> 
> I think I figured out what happened, though. I had added 300mg tren-e about the same time as I started the run. It was probably just kicking in when the run was over.
> 
> On a slightly different topic, I keep reading one of the sides of DNP is lactic acid buildup. That could make muscles feel fatigued. Wondering if it makes sense to add magnesium in to control it, or if the affect is too small to make a difference.


I've never read about lactic acid building up at all in regards to dnp use. When I hear that, it just reminds me of how it feels when exercising to the point I experience it. I currently supplement magnesium citrate, have for years and noticed no difference with or wo it. Magnesium is good to take Regardless, and cheap.


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## flenser (Nov 30, 2021)

TiredandHot said:


> I've never read about lactic acid building up at all in regards to dnp use. When I hear that, it just reminds me of how it feels when exercising to the point I experience it. I currently supplement magnesium citrate, have for years and noticed no difference with or wo it. Magnesium is good to take Regardless, and cheap.


Here is one...



> El-Guindy et al. concluded that dinitrophenol produces its glycolytic effect through its effect on the muscle contraction process [30]. Carbohydrate consumption markedly increases in the presence of dinitrophenol which allows for rapid weight loss when dinitrophenol is taken in small doses [26]. *Pyruvic acid is aerobically metabolised to H2O and CO2, but results in the production of lactic acid when metabolised anaerobically.* The discrepancy between the stimulation of glycolysis and the inhibition of oxidative phosphorylation results in a rapid rise in the production of pyruvic acid, leading to an increased production of lactic acid [24, 26, 31].



I've seen a few similar ones, not that I completely understand the entire paragraph : ) 

I was hoping adding in magnesium citrate would  have a noticeable reduction in muscle fatigue in the gym, but I guess not. I ordered a bottle anyway, just in case.


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## TiredandHot (Nov 30, 2021)

flenser said:


> Here is one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also found this explanation as well. If anything, lactic acid might occur Sooner performing anaerobic exercises when on cycle. There's no way I can do a tempo run when on it, because I can't breathe enough to test the lactic acid building up. Ha.

The usage of glucose as fuel markedly increases with low doses of Dinitrophenol[14] This increase in glycolysis leads to an increase in pyruvic acid and lactic acid (via anaerobic metabolism) due to the lack of ATP from the oxidative phosphorylation inhibition.[15]


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## Intel.imperitive (Nov 30, 2021)

flenser said:


> This isn't going to be a log. I'm too lazy for that. I just felt I had been stepping on everyone else's threads too much. So if anything interesting happens, or if I'm miserable and just need a place to whine, I'll post it here : )
> 
> I started a new run last Wednesday, 200mg as before, taken in the morning. This time I'm being careful to stay in a deficit ~500 calories. I also added 300mg tren-e to my normal TRT 100mg test. I may have been doing that before, but I don't remember for sure. I like tren, and I doubt I'll notice any night sweats it causes.
> 
> ...


what lab is your dnp


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## flenser (Nov 30, 2021)

Intel.imperitive said:


> what lab is your dnp


It's a private source. You have to be invited (not by me). And if anyone sends you a PM "inviting" you to buy their products, just forward it to a mod and they will tell you if the source is legit : )


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## flenser (Nov 30, 2021)

TiredandHot said:


> Also found this explanation as well. If anything, lactic acid might occur Sooner performing anaerobic exercises when on cycle. There's no way I can do a tempo run when on it, because I can't breathe enough to test the lactic acid building up. Ha.
> 
> The usage of glucose as fuel markedly increases with low doses of Dinitrophenol[14] This increase in glycolysis leads to an increase in pyruvic acid and lactic acid (via anaerobic metabolism) due to the lack of ATP from the oxidative phosphorylation inhibition.[15]


That makes a lot of sense. I get out of breath just doing dips...


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## Intel.imperitive (Dec 2, 2021)

flenser said:


> That makes a lot of sense. I get out of breath just doing dips...


How much weight did you lose at what dose and for how long?


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## flenser (Dec 2, 2021)

Intel.imperitive said:


> How much weight did you lose at what dose and for how long?


I did two runs since the beginning of September. Both lasted three to four weeks before I stopped for different reasons. I stopped the first because I increased the dose and wasn't prepared for the increased appetite and generally made a mess of things. The second run ended when work got in the way. 

The doses varied, because I was experimenting with how much I could handle. I ran everything from 100mg to (I think) 500mg at some point. When I went up to 400mg and above I lost control of my eating, so for me I believe 300mg will end up being the best fat losing dose. I'm on 300mg now, and it's working out well with minimal sides and strength loss.

On weight loss, I believe I was around 265 before the first run in September. It might have been less because I was already cutting when I started the DNP. I don't remember for sure. At the end of the second run the beginning of November I was at 217. That includes some cutting between DNP runs, but it averages about 4-5 lbs per week. I just wouldn't count on that being super accurate, since I wasn't keeping a daily log of things, and I was also on gear at the time.


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## Tazz (Dec 5, 2021)

Besides appetite, @500mg, how did you feel compared to 300?


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## flenser (Dec 5, 2021)

Tazz said:


> Besides appetite, @500mg, how did you feel compared to 300?


I was pretty weak, and just unracking the squat bar left me out of breath. If I didn't have to go to work every day, I probably could have handled it, and kept the A/C blasting.

But after reading some of the mouse studies, I think countering the sides with a colder environment might also counter the weight loss. Better to go with a lower dose and a room temperature environment.

At 300mg cardio still sucks, but I can handle a decent workout. Squat is off maybe 20%, and I have been sticking to sets of 3-5 reps for most lifts.

Also no sweating while sitting in a 70 degree conference room! That was a deal breaker for me at higher doses, since I kept getting dragged into meetings at work. I still get night sweats, but then I'm also on 400mg tren.


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## flenser (Dec 8, 2021)

My BP is usually in the 120/7x range. It never fluctuated much relative to weight or gear use. Even when I was mountain biking daily it never dropped below 110. 

But with DNP it drops a little every day. This morning it was 98/6x (sixty something). Is this something I should be worried about? I feel fine - other than being tired, hungry and sweaty : )

Starting to see visible changes every morning. I have loose skin where I didn't know I had fat. Not sure I can get under 10% soon enough for the skin to shrink down before January, so I might still be cutting early next year. Kind of annoying, but I did it to myself.


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## Yano (Dec 8, 2021)

flenser said:


> My BP is usually in the 120/7x range. It never fluctuated much relative to weight or gear use. Even when I was mountain biking daily it never dropped below 110.
> 
> But with DNP it drops a little every day. This morning it was 98/6x (sixty something). Is this something I should be worried about? I feel fine - other than being tired, hungry and sweaty : )
> 
> Starting to see visible changes every morning. I have loose skin where I didn't know I had fat. Not sure I can get under 10% soon enough for the skin to shrink down before January, so I might still be cutting early next year. Kind of annoying, but I did it to myself.


After losing 95lbs theres places on me that look like fkn crepe paper , some of it i don't ever think will fully shrink back just due to my age and the elasticity of the skin itself but i got my fingers crossed. Tired of the bathroom mirror screaming and covering its eyes every time i get out of the shower.


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## TODAY (Dec 8, 2021)

Yano said:


> After losing 95lbs


This is a fucking huge achievement and no amount of loose skin makes it less admirable or impressive.


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## Yano (Dec 8, 2021)

TODAY said:


> This is a fucking huge achievement and no amount of loose skin makes it less admirable or impressive.


Thanks , i just got sick and tired of being sick and tired. Want to be dancing at my grand kids weddings one day ya know.


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## Intel.imperitive (Dec 8, 2021)

Yano said:


> Thanks , i just got sick and tired of being sick and tired. Want to be dancing at my grand kids weddings one day ya know.


I'm 3kgs or 6.5lbs down in 8 days


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## Beti ona (Dec 8, 2021)

flenser said:


> But with DNP it drops a little every day. This morning it was 98/6x (sixty something). Is this something I should be worried about?


No, your health is improving!!

If you feel weak take more salt, magnesium and electrolytes.


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## flenser (Dec 8, 2021)

Yano said:


> After losing 95lbs theres places on me that look like fkn crepe paper , some of it i don't ever think will fully shrink back just due to my age and the elasticity of the skin itself but i got my fingers crossed. Tired of the bathroom mirror screaming and covering its eyes every time i get out of the shower.


In theory it will shrink if you get to a low enough BF. I dropped from 315 to the 160's once, and the loose skin didn't really shrink until I was below 170, literally all skin and bones. Hoping it will work this time, only without starving off the muscle.


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## Yano (Dec 8, 2021)

flenser said:


> In theory it will shrink if you get to a low enough BF. I dropped from 315 to the 160's once, and the loose skin didn't really shrink until I was below 170, literally all skin and bones. Hoping it will work this time, only without starving off the muscle.


ah right on , yeah i wont ever be that small ended the cut at 209 , started this blast and im back up to 224 right now


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## flenser (Dec 8, 2021)

Yano said:


> ah right on , yeah i wont ever be that small ended the cut at 209 , started this blast and im back up to 224 right now


I didn't catch you had switched from cutting, but thought you looked more fit in the last pics you posted. Put on enough muscle and the skin won't need to shrink!


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## Yano (Dec 8, 2021)

flenser said:


> I didn't catch you had switched from cutting, but thought you looked more fit in the last pics you posted. Put on enough muscle and the skin won't need to shrink!


Thats what im hoping for , i got some solid advice from dirty and spear about ending the cut and how to raise my calories back up so im at 2500 right now , finishing out the ride with the SR9011 as well I figure it helps with cholesterol and such so why not. Try to burn off and use some of the butter for energy while getting in my protein and around 250 to 300 gr of carbs see how if it works or not.


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## flenser (Dec 10, 2021)

I'm free from work after today until next year, and I want to spend as much of that time mountain biking as my body can handle.  

I'm going to drop the DNP and tren and switch to a low fat, high-ish carb plan. It's not that the DNP isn't working. It's as close as it gets to a magic fat burning pill. But it's also starting to bore me to death.

If I'm still not happy with fat levels by, say, February, I will probably do one more three week DNP run.


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## flenser (Dec 13, 2021)

Managed a 40 mile road ride today on a mountain bike. Didn't bonk or even get seriously winded, even though I was pushing pretty hard. I did go through a ton of water.

If DNP half life is really 36 hours, I should still have 100mg or so in my system. I'm going to go with that for the rest of the year as long as it doesn't interfere much with my riding.


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## flenser (Dec 16, 2021)

SO I ended up dropping the DNP after all. I took 100mg Monday morning, and I had to bail on the ride 12 miles in. I just couldn't keep up.  

Anyway, one bad side effect of NOT being on DNP is I can drink. Discovered the vodka in the cabinet a few minutes ago. Any posts I might make after this one tonight might be a bit off : )


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## Beti ona (Dec 17, 2021)

flenser said:


> If DNP half life is really 36 hours



My impression, after use it for tons of cycles, is that the half-life is more than 36 hours.


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## flenser (Dec 17, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> My impression, after use it for tons of cycles, is that the half-life is more than 36 hours.


The effects sure seem to last longer than that.


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## flenser (Jan 2, 2022)

My vacation ends tonight. I got a lot or biking in, but not as much as I would have liked. I got sucked into a lot of house maintenance that I had been putting off. 

My dreams of losing a ton of fat on the trail didn't work out so well either. Whatever fat I lost on the rides I more than made up for with all the holiday food and drink. I haven't weighed myself yet, but I'm guessing I'm pushing 230. At least it's easy to lose.

I'm back on 200mg per day and 2000 calories, though I haven't decided for how long. My goal is pretty much the same as before. I want to get to whatever weight that forces my loose skin to shrink. I know it can be done, just not what percent BF that will be. Not going to do keto this time, but higher carbs for the DNP to eat and lower fat.


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## flenser (Jan 2, 2022)

I posted somewhere about DNP causing my hands to blister, but I can't remember where. Anyway, I discovered it wasn't DNP at all, but a skin fungus. Some OTC antifungal cream for a few days and the blisters healed. The dead skin is still there, but it's like sunburn pealing. The skin under it is healthy.


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## Tazz (Jan 2, 2022)

flenser said:


> I posted somewhere about DNP causing my hands to blister, but I can't remember where. Anyway, I discovered it wasn't DNP at all, but a skin fungus. Some OTC antifungal cream for a few days and the blisters healed. The dead skin is still there, but it's like sunburn pealing. The skin under it is healthy.
> 
> View attachment 16871



Does that shit hurt??


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## flenser (Jan 2, 2022)

Tazz said:


> Does that shit hurt??


It did before I started using the antifungal cream, it hurt and itched, and the skin under the blisters was inflamed.


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## Tazz (Jan 2, 2022)

flenser said:


> It did before I started using the antifungal cream, it hurt and itched, and the skin under the blisters was inflamed.



Deadlifts are your worst nightmare right now.


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## flenser (Jan 3, 2022)

Tazz said:


> Deadlifts are your worst nightmare right now.


I've been using straps. Even that hurt before, but not so much now.


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## Beti ona (Jan 3, 2022)

Does your skin turn yellow? Am I the only one who get the comments about being Chinese or Simpson family? Hahaha


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## flenser (Jan 3, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Does your skin turn yellow? Am I the only one who get the comments about being Chinese or Simpson family? Hahaha


No yellow skin as far as I can tell, but then I'm color blind. My wife says she hasn't noticed either.


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