# 5/3/1



## Joliver

I have been running into more and more of these 5/3/1 guys.  They are everywhere.  

This is a serious thread, not a bash-fest.  

In my opinion, I don't know that "enhanced" lifters need the time away from the progression, but I want to hear it from the guys that do it.  

Lets hear it Wendler guys:

Why do you run 5/3/1?

Have you ever used any other strength philosophies?

How has it helped you to have such a large percentage of your training in a de-loading phase? 

Do you compete?


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## j2048b

no competing for me at all, 

it has helped me not get injured as much as i have in the past... have i gotten injured, yup, but thats from me trying to add weight too damn quickly, and prolly because i suck at lifting 

my trainer had me work up to a 5/3/1 wendler style and i liked it, my numbers steadily went up and it did not take me forever to finish a workout... gonna start back again after the new year as he is on vaca...

ive used a lot of strip sets when i was younger and in college and it made me strong as hell, ive tried a ton of different programs but seem to fail for some reason or another, usually due to an injury as im not built to be a powerlifter...

even tho i have a ton of the books and a harddrive full of info im always suffer from paralysis by analysis, 

so i went with 5/3/1 and havent really ventured out since last september.... some of us are not "enhanced" lifters



JOLIVER:

y do u seem "against" 5/3/1? 
do u compete?
what strength philosophies do u side with?
are the ones u side with based upon how u respond to a certain stimuli? or because u chose to try something and forced urself to adapt?

and what do u mean by this question?:

How has it helped you to have such a large percentage of your training in a de-loading phase?


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## Joliver

J20 said:


> no competing for me at all,
> 
> it has helped me not get injured as much as i have in the past... have i gotten injured, yup, but thats from me trying to add weight too damn quickly, and prolly because i suck at lifting
> 
> my trainer had me work up to a 5/3/1 wendler style and i liked it, my numbers steadily went up and it did not take me forever to finish a workout... gonna start back again after the new year as he is on vaca...
> 
> ive used a lot of strip sets when i was younger and in college and it made me strong as hell, ive tried a ton of different programs but seem to fail for some reason or another, usually due to an injury as im not built to be a powerlifter...
> 
> even tho i have a ton of the books and a harddrive full of info im always suffer from paralysis by analysis,
> 
> so i went with 5/3/1 and havent really ventured out since last september.... some of us are not "enhanced" lifters
> 
> 
> 
> JOLIVER:
> 
> y do u seem "against" 5/3/1?
> do u compete?
> what strength philosophies do u side with?
> are the ones u side with based upon how u respond to a certain stimuli? or because u chose to try something and forced urself to adapt?
> 
> and what do u mean by this question?:
> 
> How has it helped you to have such a large percentage of your training in a de-loading phase?




J20, I didn't intend to sound antagonistic.  Sorry if it came off that way.  The question was intended for enhanced lifters.  If you are not, then you may need the DL phase, and my post wasn't intended for you.

I am not against the 5/3/1 program, but it seems like there are other programs are so much better that I am curious as to why this particular program has such a large following.  

As for me:
Yes, I compete.
I follow westside/Russian/Bulgarian training philosophies.
I follow the philosophy that has a track record of making champions. Wendler himself was a Westsider once.  I conformed to the philosophy with great success.  

Now what I meant by the last question was this:  De-loading is a prolonged period of very little maximal strength stimulation.  Do you think it helps?  

That response was a bit more "spirited" than I had anticipated.  Apparently the 531 guys are ardent followers of the program. But in the spirit of holiday fighting, it was wendler himself that said:

_"My best powerlifting accomplishment in the 275-pound weight class was a 1,000-pound squat, 675-pound bench press, 700-pound deadlift, and a 2,375 total. No, I wasn't strong at all! Sure, I could waddle up to the monolift and squat, but I couldn't do anything else. Really, all I could do was squat, bench, and deadlift. Today I have different aspirations. I want to be able to do a bunch of different activities and still kick ass in the weight room. I want to be as mobile, flexible, strong, and in as good a condition as I possibly can. That's how I came up with 5/3/1."_

Flexibility is for Haitian hookers. 

Now sir, you may return fire....


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## Tren4Life

I run it cause it's simple I have the app for my phone and it does the work for me. It tells me how many reps I need to get to beat my pr. Even if I only beat it by one rep I'm stronger than I was last week. I like to go slow and steady. 
My first meet will be in April. I can't wait!!!!


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## Joliver

Steelers4Life said:


> I run it cause it's simple I have the app for my phone and it does the work for me. It tells me how many reps I need to get to beat my pr. Even if I only beat it by one rep I'm stronger than I was last week. I like to go slow and steady.
> My first meet will be in April. I can't wait!!!!




That is an excellent reason.  Get too caught up in the gears and cogs of an overly complex BS routine, and you may forget to lift.  I have been there.

Good luck in your meet!


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## AlphaD

Dont compete and dont plan too. I ran the 5/3/1 program multiple times. It helped me move my dl back up to 450 after I hurt the muscles in my lower back. Its a great program to increase the poundages on the big lifts.  I see nothing wrong with the program, everything works until it doesn't. So it's a good change to routine.


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## DieYoungStrong

I've always had good success with it. I just program the lifts slightly different, trying to increase weight quicker, while on. 

I'll also do more bb type accessory movements to bring up my physique, and dial back the volume to something more manageable when off. 

It makes for a nice mix. I don't compete btw.


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## Joliver

DieYoungStrong said:


> I've always had good success with it. I just program the lifts slightly different, trying to increase weight quicker, while on.
> 
> I'll also do more bb type accessory movements to bring up my physique, and dial back the volume to something more manageable when off.
> 
> It makes for a nice mix. I don't compete btw.




So what kind of percentages do you work from while on/off?


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## Seeker

I ran it once for 7 months. Yes, it did increase my pr's but s little bit. But ill admit there were a number of occasions that I found myself struggling with boredom and the feeling that I was leaving the gym with too much gas in the tank. And yes, the deload weeks seemed to often to soon.  That's just me though.  Im not saying I wouldn't reccommend it, I would.  It was just to slow,  and to boring for me.


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## j2048b

joliver said:


> J20, I didn't intend to sound antagonistic.  Sorry if it came off that way.  The question was intended for enhanced lifters.  If you are not, then you may need the DL phase, and my post wasn't intended for you.
> 
> I am not against the 5/3/1 program, but it seems like there are other programs are so much better that I am curious as to why this particular program has such a large following.
> 
> As for me:
> Yes, I compete.
> I follow westside/Russian/Bulgarian training philosophies.
> I follow the philosophy that has a track record of making champions. Wendler himself was a Westsider once.  I conformed to the philosophy with great success.
> 
> Now what I meant by the last question was this:  De-loading is a prolonged period of very little maximal strength stimulation.  Do you think it helps?
> 
> That response was a bit more "spirited" than I had anticipated.  Apparently the 531 guys are ardent followers of the program. But in the spirit of holiday fighting, it was wendler himself that said:
> 
> _"My best powerlifting accomplishment in the 275-pound weight class was a 1,000-pound squat, 675-pound bench press, 700-pound deadlift, and a 2,375 total. No, I wasn't strong at all! Sure, I could waddle up to the monolift and squat, but I couldn't do anything else. Really, all I could do was squat, bench, and deadlift. Today I have different aspirations. I want to be able to do a bunch of different activities and still kick ass in the weight room. I want to be as mobile, flexible, strong, and in as good a condition as I possibly can. That's how I came up with 5/3/1."_
> 
> Flexibility is for Haitian hookers.
> 
> Now sir, you may return fire....



Haha

I believe the deload works for me because im not a seasoned powerlifter, nor do i ever plan to compete, i like the simplicity, as well as the slow gains ive obtained until i got re injured, my numbers suck as ive not been consistant thru the years and this program has allowed me to be able to gain strength back and be consistant...

Now id love to try ws, but ive never been really coached as to how to run it! I know the speed work along with the other portions would provably make me stronger, but as i said above 

If my trainer sees a good fit for me then i may try it but in order for me to get stronger i will stay w 5/3/1 or do what i had intended which ill post up in a different thread to see what others think!


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## DieYoungStrong

joliver said:


> So what kind of percentages do you work from while on/off?



I push all the last sets for as many reps as possible each week, and I think he says to move maxes up 5 pounds for upper body and 10 lbs for lower. I double it to 10 and 20 and it works for me. 

I'm no elite powerlifter though. I've given the cube method a try, and if I was a competitive powerlifter, I think I'd be doing that instead. I don't do board presses Or chain and band work. I think that stuff definitely needs to be incorporated when running something like west side or cube, but you don't need it with 5/3/1. 5/3/1 is a very basic program that works and the gains are slow and steady.


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## Tren4Life

joliver said:


> That is an excellent reason.  Get too caught up in the gears and cogs of an overly complex BS routine, and you may forget to lift.  I have been there.
> 
> Good luck in your meet!




I don't like to have to remember what I'm supposed to be doing next. It breaks my concentration. I hate having to write shit down too and watching the clock for a time sucks too. When I go to the gym I like to get something accomplished to justify getting out of bed at 3 am. It would take me to long to adjust to a new program. Would I try a different program ? Sure but I'm a creature of habit and I hate change so it would take me a while to adjust.


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## Joliver

J20 said:


> Haha
> 
> I believe the deload works for me because im not a seasoned powerlifter, nor do i ever plan to compete, i like the simplicity, as well as the slow gains ive obtained until i got re injured, my numbers suck as ive not been consistant thru the years and this program has allowed me to be able to gain strength back and be consistant...
> 
> Now id love to try ws, but ive never been really coached as to how to run it! I know the speed work along with the other portions would provably make me stronger, but as i said above
> 
> If my trainer sees a good fit for me then i may try it but in order for me to get stronger i will stay w 5/3/1 or do what i had intended which ill post up in a different thread to see what others think!



One thing I will say for 531 is that you actually see a lot of people doing it....as opposed to hobbling around with a cane talking about getting back to good.  And I do believe that simplicity makes for a robust program.  

When I read Louie Simmons' WS principles for the first time, I scratched my head for a few weeks.  Eventually, I made it my own.  It took a minute. Add the fact that louie is a bumbling boob in most of the videos that I found made it difficult to visualize at first.  Speed/dynamic work was the most difficult portion of the program to grasp at first.  But you fall into it.  

Thanks for the insight.


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## PillarofBalance

joliver said:


> One thing I will say for 531 is that you actually see a lot of people doing it....as opposed to hobbling around with a cane talking about getting back to good.  And I do believe that simplicity makes for a robust program.
> 
> When I read Louie Simmons' WS principles for the first time, I scratched my head for a few weeks.  Eventually, I made it my own.  It took a minute. Add the fact that louie is a bumbling boob in most of the videos that I found made it difficult to visualize at first.  Speed/dynamic work was the most difficult portion of the program to grasp at first.  But you fall into it.
> 
> Thanks for the insight.



My own program has a foundation in west side. Percentages are worked weekly in 3 week waves. 

One big difference is no ME days.  When the rep work gets easier and I know in my gut I have more gas I bump my training max. 

Other differences include less swapping out of exercises. I will use the same accessories for 2 or 3 waves so long as I progress. 

My accessories are closer to a bodybuilding range of repetition as well. I don't do 5 or 3 ' s on accessories but that is mostly because I tend not to have weak points in a lift from a muscular standpoint. My issues tend to be technical. 

I don't deload ever since I am only maxing in a meet. My 60 percent days i suppose would qualify as a deload.

Finally I tend not to box squat as often as I free squat.

I do use a broad range of dynamic methods that include chains bands reverse bands and even gear like a shirt or deadlift suit. 

Steelers4life will be running this program to prep for his meet in April just prior to his peaking cycle of 4 weeks.  He will make fast steady progress and remain injury free. I hope he logs it here.

Why anyone would stray from a program written with principles from the greatest powerlifters in the world is beyond me.


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## NbleSavage

Steelers4Life said:


> I don't like to have to remember what I'm supposed to be doing next. It breaks my concentration. I hate having to write shit down too and watching the clock for a time sucks too. When I go to the gym I like to get something accomplished to justify getting out of bed at 3 am. It would take me to long to adjust to a new program. Would I try a different program ? Sure but I'm a creature of habit and I hate change so it would take me a while to adjust.



Are we twins? Damn, you just described me exact philosophy on early morning training.


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## Joliver

PillarofBalance said:


> My own program has a foundation in west side. Percentages are worked weekly in 3 week waves.
> 
> One big difference is no ME days.  When the rep work gets easier and I know in my gut I have more gas I bump my training max.
> 
> Other differences include less swapping out of exercises. I will use the same accessories for 2 or 3 waves so long as I progress.
> 
> My accessories are closer to a bodybuilding range of repetition as well. I don't do 5 or 3 ' s on accessories but that is mostly because I tend not to have weak points in a lift from a muscular standpoint. My issues tend to be technical.
> 
> I don't deload ever since I am only maxing in a meet. My 60 percent days i suppose would qualify as a deload.
> 
> Finally I tend not to box squat as often as I free squat.
> 
> I do use a broad range of dynamic methods that include chains bands reverse bands and even gear like a shirt or deadlift suit.
> 
> Steelers4life will be running this program to prep for his meet in April just prior to his peaking cycle of 4 weeks.  He will make fast steady progress and remain injury free. I hope he logs it here.
> 
> Why anyone would stray from a program written with principles from the greatest powerlifters in the world is beyond me.





I have done something similar with the removal one ME day for each lift per micro-cycle (two weeks).  The removed ME day is replaced with either ballistic lifting or a repetition day.  

I use the box squat once per meso-cycle (6 weeks), but as I close in on a meet, I tend to focus on the box squat a bit more.  The box squat better replicates my groove with predator briefs and my leviathan suit.  Shameless inzer plug....

My dynamic work looks to be the same as yours POB....though I am sure I look cooler doing it.


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## stonetag

My best powerlifting accomplishment in the 275-pound weight class was a 1,000-pound squat, 675-pound bench press, 700-pound deadlift, and a 2,375 total.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 I know this is off subject but jeesuz JOliver those are some fukin savage numbers! I will never cross you ever..ever


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## stonetag

Ok that wasn't you still savage LOL


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## Joliver

stonetag said:


> Ok that wasn't you still savage LOL



I can curl the 35lb dumbbells....that savage enough for ya!?!?!?


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## stonetag

lol yeah pretty savage! I lost my damn reading glasses. I guess I can cross you now...haha


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## Joliver

stonetag said:


> lol yeah pretty savage! I lost my damn reading glasses. I guess I can cross you now...haha



You just did partner.....you just did.  

We need ourselves an old fashioned smith machine bar only bench off.  That ought to settle the question of who's tougher!


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## stonetag

Easy boss, do we have to use a smith? I don't get all the lifting programs 531 and the one you mentioned but then I'm not a power lifter either, interesting post none the less. I'm learning.


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## Tren4Life

NbleSavage said:


> Are we twins? Damn, you just described me exact philosophy on early morning training.



You and I do think alike


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## Maintenance Man

Jol Ive never used the 5/3/1. Always more of a 5x5 guy myself. But I wasnt too much into PLing tho so I dont count for shit


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## Tren4Life

PillarofBalance said:


> Steelers4life will be running this program to prep for his meet in April just prior to his peaking cycle of 4 weeks.  He will make fast steady progress and remain injury free. I hope he logs it here.
> 
> Why anyone would stray from a program written with principles from the greatest powerlifters in the world is beyond me.



I am planning on starting a thread of some kind so the guys here on the board can watch my progress.


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## SuperBane

I liked the 5x5 routines. I made great progress everytime I've ran one. & my  4 day split has it's foundation built off of 5x5 & compounds.

I could not get into the 5/3/1 I was in and out of the gym too quick. The whole thing felt slow. I didn't feel as if I was doing anything at the gym at all.

I did that right off of one of the 5x5 programs.

I do not compete.

Your mileage may vary.


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## SFGiants

The 531 is helping me get back on track after injuries and 3 surgeries that took 200 pounds off my squat and 100 of my pull.

It pisses me off and the strength does not just come right back as people think it's going to take sometime to get it back.


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## j2048b

SFGiants said:


> The 531 is helping me get back on track after injuries and 3 surgeries that took 200 pounds off my squat and 100 of my pull.
> 
> It pisses me off and the strength does not just come right back as people think it's going to take sometime to get it back.



Yeah i wish the muscle memory would only take like a few weeks, more like months with a lot of consistancy... So far ny new run w 531 has been good, weight progressing steadily and pullups are really comming back up quickly, unlike in the past, maybe its that sweet nectar of var im running as well?


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## Joliver

SFGiants said:


> The 531 is helping me get back on track after injuries and 3 surgeries that took 200 pounds off my squat and 100 of my pull.
> 
> It pisses me off and the strength does not just come right back as people think it's going to take sometime to get it back.



I hate that for you SFG.  When I start getting my strength back after an injury, it feels like it is coming back fast.  Then you look at the calendar and realize you have been on the comeback trail for months.  It can get you way low.  



J20 said:


> Yeah i wish the muscle memory would only take like a few weeks, more like months with a lot of consistancy... So far ny new run w 531 has been good, weight progressing steadily and pullups are really comming back up quickly, unlike in the past, maybe its that sweet nectar of var im running as well?



If I am out for more than 3 weeks, my lifts will be lower by a few percent.  I love coming back with gear though....makes life a bit more tolerable.


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## SFGiants

joliver said:


> I hate that for you SFG.  When I start getting my strength back after an injury, it feels like it is coming back fast.  Then you look at the calendar and realize you have been on the comeback trail for months.  It can get you way low.
> 
> 
> 
> If I am out for more than 3 weeks, my lifts will be lower by a few percent.  I love coming back with gear though....makes life a bit more tolerable.



I came back each time on tren just to aid in the depression of loss in strength.

Last year around this time sucked bro I was starting to comeback after an injury that really set me back but couldn't mentally deal with 3 major hemorrhoids lol so I had them removed which kept me out 8 straight weeks but during the 3rd week or so after I was back I had an emergency appendectomy which put me out another 8 week then around 4 weeks after that my gallbladder attacked me and that had to come out keeping me out 8 weeks so we are looking at 6 months no lifting with all 3 added together plus I was already nursing a shredded Rotator Cuff and torn Bicep/Pec tendon which I still have not had the surgery on and I'm just refusing to do so so that I can keep training.

Talk about shit luck huh.

I couldn't squat 300 nor pull 400 and within 2 years I got the squat to 600 and pull to 600. Being 45 doesn't give me any hopes of every hitting great numbers but God Damn it I'm not happy with my current numbers but at least I doing something about it.


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## Pinkbear

I just started 531 big and boring only on 2nd complete cycle and think its great. On this routine this is the first time in a while I'm sore for a week after lifting. Can't say quit yet if strength is up I started my maxes really low to rebuild them up.

And yes its simple, I also have the app big lifts 2 on my phone makes it even easier. 

Low and heavy sets followed by light and high reps sets my muscles on fire.


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## j2048b

Pinkbear said:


> I just started 531 big and boring only on 2nd complete cycle and think its great. On this routine this is the first time in a while I'm sore for a week after lifting. Can't say quit yet if strength is up I started my maxes really low to rebuild them up.
> 
> And yes its simple, I also have the app big lifts 2 on my phone makes it even easier.
> 
> Low and heavy sets followed by light and high reps sets my muscles on fire.



Im also doing that routine and yes its boring, my trainer has me on a rehab 531 from past injuries so i combined a few of his lifts along with b&b and do a few super sets, yes its altering the 531, but i have to in order to bring up some weak areas.... Maybe im wrong for doing it this way, but in the end i feel better and i feel it hits my body better...


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