# How much test is too much test



## Anabolic Reality (Apr 27, 2017)

Got my bloodwork in. Had a 2860 test score. Talked to the doc, pretty much rediculous conversation. Shes cool af but thought anything over a 2k test is over kill. Said "youre either anabolic or catabolic... once you reach 2000+ its pretty much useless from my medical standpoint." 

This raises a legit question. I achieved these levels by 500mg test e a week. Ive superdosed at 1g weekly in the past, but for what? Im claiming too many people over use test and underappreciate the importance of their secondary or tertiary stacked anabolics. They obviously have way different effects on the individual anabolically as they dont register on the hormonal panel. Weve appreciated this sentiment in the use of trenbolone, but other anabolics seem to be overlooked. 

Nandrolone for instance has gained a "bad wrap" regarding this philosophy. Old school perspective always says "dose you're test higher than your deca." But why? Prolactin levels will increase regardless. So what does it matter if u have a 1500 testosterone score on your panel or a 2500 one? 

Sides are sides and go way beyond the conventional "side stepping and manipulation" of drugs without true understanding of how those drugs are effecting your serum levels ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS. 

Just looking for intellectual thought regarding this....


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## monster-ish (Apr 27, 2017)

I agree that at a certain point it has to pointless to dose so highly. I myself prefer to stay in the 500-600mg/week range and run my other compounds higher


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 27, 2017)

Is your doctor an endocrinologist or a general practitioner?


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## PFM (Apr 27, 2017)

Aside from elevated BP, severe oily skin, bad crit, RBC and reduced GFR with zero sex drive I cannot find a reason to run over 500mgs/week.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 27, 2017)

No such thing as too much test.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 27, 2017)

Prolactin doesn't really come from 19nors like many believe although deca might have a slight effect bc it does aromatize a little. It's aromatization and interaction with the estradiol receptor that causes prolactin not necessarily 19nors. 

The higher the test levels the more the results are up to a point of diminishing returns. It's the same with any compound. Your doc answered your question from a medical standpoint but there's no medical standpoint for using steroids beyond TRT.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 27, 2017)

Shes an endo


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 27, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> No such thing as too much test.


So explain it


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 27, 2017)

Are we generally saying the higher the testosterone level the more anabolic we become? And how about all of these other steroids? How do we measure their efficacy. Im not trying to prove anyone wrong bc i generally dont know. But many people here claim others throw out "bro science" and this and that....im just wondering if they have a different perspective. Bc all of these dosing questions are kind of pragmatic in nauture. You can give people a baseline but other than that....there is an element of on an "individual to individual" basis. 

Like tren. How much do we really need and what is it directly effecting to make us more anabolic? It doesnt show up on a serum test....so how do we know what  its raising and how much of it we need? Get what im saying?


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 27, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Are we generally saying the higher the testosterone level the more anabolic we become? And how about all of these other steroids? How do we measure their efficacy. Im not trying to prove anyone wrong bc i generally dont know. But many people here claim others throw out "bro science" and this and that....im just wondering if they have a different perspective. Bc all of these dosing questions are kind of pragmatic in nauture. You can give people a baseline but other than that....there is an element of on an "individual to individual" basis.
> 
> Like tren. How much do we really need and what is it directly effecting to make us more anabolic? It doesnt show up on a serum test....so how do we know etf its raising and how much of it we need? Get what im saying?



You aren't going to find much in the way of peer reviewed research into using steroids for performance enhancement. WADA has seen to silencing the truth about such things.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 27, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> So explain it



I look like a different person on 1 gram of test than I do 500mg.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 27, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> I look like a different person on 1 gram of test than I do 500mg.


Lol...well thats fair enough. But thats kind of my inital point in regard to using the test to create that anabolic environment and then increasing the dosages on the stacked drugs to maximize gains without having the testoterone related signs like prolactin and estradiol issues. 

Ive never ran 1000mg of test without stacking it. Everytime i blow the phuck up...but my bloods were not as impressive as i hoped for on 500mg test only....if i would of went in last summer on all the tren i was on they probably would of sent me to the hosptial lbs. I guess im getting more intuitive and conscientious of my health now in my middle age 🙄.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 27, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Lol...well thats fair enough. But thats kind of my inital point in regard to using the test to create that anabolic environment and then increasing the dosages on the stacked drugs to maximize gains without having the testoterone related signs like prolactin and estradiol issues.
> 
> Ive never ran 1000mg of test without stacking it. Everytime i blow the phuck up...but my bloods were not as impressive as i hoped for on 500mg test only....if i would of went in last summer on all the tren i was on they probably would of sent me to the hosptial lbs. I guess im getting more intuitive and conscientious of my health now in my middle age 🙄.



Yeah I am getting up there and don't blast like I used to either. But good God on 1.2 grams of test I looked ****ing unhuman.  I never had sides like elevated e2. I may have taken a total of 2mg adex in my life. Just lucky.

Now a days I am happy to blast on 200 test and maybe 400 tren if that.


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yeah I am getting up there and don't blast like I used to either. But good God on 1.2 grams of test I looked ****ing unhuman.  I never had sides like elevated e2. I may have taken a total of 2mg adex in my life. Just lucky.
> 
> Now a days I am happy to blast on 200 test and maybe 400 tren if that.



making me want to up my test from 750 to 1000 hmmm...


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yeah I am getting up there and don't blast like I used to either. But good God on 1.2 grams of test I looked ****ing unhuman.  I never had sides like elevated e2. I may have taken a total of 2mg adex in my life. Just lucky.
> 
> Now a days I am happy to blast on 200 test and maybe 400 tren if that.


In 15 years of messing with all of this i have used aromasin for probably a 3 month period. I apparently need it now bc my estrogen came back elevated....not horrible but not good.

 I just got a script for armidex. I never have any real bad sides. Sometimes a lil water retention or higher bp....but aside from that nothing. Its been about 18 mos since i had my bloods ran. There was a remarkable difference from last time to this time...i honestly attribute it to aging.

I guess it got me thinking. I feel very confident regarding most issues in relation to the subject matter. But it definitely is profound when u stare at all of your levels on paper and begin to navigate through them. 

Makes u wonder what the definitive truth really is. Could i achieve the same result by approaching what im doing differently, in a safer manner? How do i achieve longevity moving forward? What do i really need to look for all banter and speculation aside?


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## nightster (Apr 28, 2017)

I like the questions you ask. I doubt there will be any clinical trials anytime soon.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 28, 2017)

Gibsonator said:


> making me want to up my test from 750 to 1000 hmmm...



Do it man. Seriously. Nobody gets to call themselves a joocehead till they done it.  The difference is often profound.


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Do it man. Seriously. Nobody gets to call themselves a joocehead till they done it.  The difference is often profound.



Only thing I'm worried about is this ****in monster in my pants, I am already horny as **** 24/7 I get hard for no reason, shits ridiculous lol. I'm probably gonna do it though...


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 28, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> In 15 years of messing with all of this i have used aromasin for probably a 3 month period. I apparently need it now bc my estrogen came back elevated....not horrible but not good.
> 
> I just got a script for armidex. I never have any real bad sides. Sometimes a lil water retention or higher bp....but aside from that nothing. Its been about 18 mos since i had my bloods ran. There was a remarkable difference from last time to this time...i honestly attribute it to aging.
> 
> ...



Well if you attribute the changes to aging then I would stop thinking about it there.  Even if you never picked up some gear you would still be seeing declining numbers.

I like to think that as we all age I will fare better than most others. I don't have to worry about things like loss of bone density, sarcopenia, loss of balance and falls resulting in injury.  

I focus on keeping my risk factors for disease as low as possible given the fact that I like high doses of test.  You are on the right track. Having bloodwork done is a great start.


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> No such thing as too much test.





PillarofBalance said:


> I look like a different person on 1 gram of test than I do 500mg.



I have to agree. 

For me, once I hit a gram of test, that's when the magic happens. I have done test only cycles between 1-1.5 grams and had better results than some stacks of 3 or more compounds that I have ran. I am not saying that someone can't get better results using other compounds but for me test has always come through. Its cheap as fuk to run and I know how my body reacts to it. I watch guys out there spend a grand on a cycle while I can spend 1/3 of that and look better lol.

Everyone is different but I have to disagree with anyone who says that you won't get better results by running more than 500mg/wk.


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> I have to agree.
> 
> For me, once I hit a gram of test, that's when the magic happens. I have done test only cycles between 1-1.5 grams and had better results than some stacks of 3 or more compounds that I have ran. I am not saying that someone can't get better results using other compounds but for me test has always come through. Its cheap as fuk to run and I know how my body reacts to it. I watch guys out there spend a grand on a cycle while I can spend 1/3 of that and look better lol.
> 
> Everyone is different but I have to disagree with anyone who says that you won't get better results by running more than 500mg/wk.



1.5 grams it is! jk, gonna see how 1 goes and bump my dex to .75 eod


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 28, 2017)

You are probably ok where you are since you have the deca running too. I didn't bump up to a gram for a few years.

Im not telling you not too though lol


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> You are probably ok where you are since you have the deca running too. I didn't bump up to a gram for a few years.
> 
> Im not telling you not too though lol



Last shot of npp was today, my mind is already made up there's no goin back now swole is the goal size is the prize let's gooooooo


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## SFGiants (Apr 28, 2017)

You have to know your own sweat spot!


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 28, 2017)

The more you use the bigger your gonna get..Just a fact


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Are we generally saying the higher the testosterone level the more anabolic we become? And how about all of these other steroids? How do we measure their efficacy. Im not trying to prove anyone wrong bc i generally dont know. But many people here claim others throw out "bro science" and this and that....im just wondering if they have a different perspective. Bc all of these dosing questions are kind of pragmatic in nauture. You can give people a baseline but other than that....there is an element of on an "individual to individual" basis.
> 
> Like tren. How much do we really need and what is it directly effecting to make us more anabolic? It doesnt show up on a serum test....so how do we know what  its raising and how much of it we need? Get what im saying?



The higher the test levels the more anabolic yes but there comes a point of diminishing returns. Alas also has anti-catabolic properties separate of their anabolic properties. There are muscle and strength benefits also that extend beyond AR activation as well.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

I agree. I just feel ive  over powered many of my cycles in the past with test. Im gonna run my test where its at and 800 mg of NPP to start and see what results i get. Prolly switch over this summer and run tren around 6-800. My prolactin and estro was not where i wanted it so im gonna keep tabs.


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## Bigmills (Apr 28, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Prolactin doesn't really come from 19nors like many believe although deca might have a slight effect bc it does aromatize a little. It's aromatization and interaction with the estradiol receptor that causes prolactin not necessarily 19nors.
> 
> The higher the test levels the more the results are up to a point of diminishing returns. It's the same with any compound. Your doc answered your question from a medical standpoint but there's no medical standpoint for using steroids beyond TRT.


I Believe in what you're saying, so can I ask you a question? Last cycle was 600 mg of test e twice a week and 400 tren A ED. Also I was running 20 mg of aromasin then bumped it up to 40 because I'm so gyno prone, but it did not help so I added .5 mg of caber twice a week witch seemed  to help tremendously. However this cycle starting in 2 weeks my coach wants me running 800 mg of test 500 mg of deca and 250mg of Tren E. Can you give me any advice to stop the gyno witch  is from prolactin or estrogen?
I appreciate any feedback you can give me doc. .


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

from what I know it's not good to run 2 19nors together, but I'm fairly new to the game. plus that's a ton of gear to run, how many cycles with which compounds do you have under ur belt?! ur trainer most likely doesnt give a shit but we do...


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

I personally wouldnt run those together either. But if i did, i would would do something more like test 250-350mg, tren 400-600, deca 1-200 more for joint relief than bulk. Otherwise drop tren and run test 500, deca 6-800. Thats me...with all the phucked up shit ive done tho. I dunno you, your body, age, experience...so take it for what its worth.


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> I personally wouldnt run those together either. But if i did, i would would do something more like test 250-350mg, tren 400-600, deca 1-200 more for joint relief than bulk. Otherwise drop tren and run test 500, deca 6-800. Thats me...with all the phucked up shit ive done tho. I dunno you, your body, age, experience...so take it for what its worth.



I could be wrong here but wasn't it you flaming me for telling another member to run test 600/deca 4-500???


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## Bigmills (Apr 28, 2017)

Gibsonator said:


> from what I know it's not good to run 2 19nors together, but I'm fairly new to the game. plus that's a ton of gear to run, how many cycles with which compounds do you have under ur belt?! ur trainer most likely doesnt give a shit but we do...


First thing first not to be ignorant but my trainer thinks more about me then probably some of your family. Also he has been in this business and trained many many fbb Pros. However this will be the first time that he is telling me what to run and on my diet. As far as what compounds i have ran, every compound out there except for primobolan, and Trenbolone enanthate. I don't know how many pro bodybuilders you know or bodybuilders who are real hardcore bodybuilders but 95% of them are taking more gear then me, the problem is people do not like to admit it. Me I will be completely honest . But thanks for answering my question!!!


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## Bigmills (Apr 28, 2017)

Gibsonator said:


> I could be wrong here but wasn't it you flaming me for telling another member to run test 600/deca 4-500???


I think you have me mistaken with someone else what to run and what not to run that is not my place, and why not that cycle looks okay to me. I mean why wouldn't it?? However I just asked a question not really here to argue with someone that is not going to benefit me but thanks brother..


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

Gibsonator said:


> I could be wrong here but wasn't it you flaming me for telling another member to run test 600/deca 4-500???


Have u read this thread? Did u read my intial post? Did u read my response to the intial comment in the other thread? How bout my comment to you? I simply asked u a question. I asked, "why?". Thats it. Is that your idea of someone flaming you?


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

Bigmills said:


> First thing first not to be ignorant but my trainer thinks more about me then probably some of your family. Also he has been in this business and trained many many fbb Pros. However this will be the first time that he is telling me what to run and on my diet. As far as what compounds i have ran, every compound out there except for primobolan, and Trenbolone enanthate. I don't know how many pro bodybuilders you know or bodybuilders who are real hardcore bodybuilders but 95% of them are taking more gear then me, the problem is people do not like to admit it. Me I will be completely honest . But thanks for answering my question!!!



No worrys bro that's good that he gives a shit for real, most dont. just make sure you go into that cycle with the proper support, good luck


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Have u read this thread? Did u read my intial post? Did u read my response to the intial comment in the other thread? How bout my comment to you? I simply asked u a question. I asked, "why?". Thats it. Is that your idea of someone flaming you?



calm down dude


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

My whole point is to lower test and increase secondary anabolic dosages. I could be wrong but i suggested this...and you suggested the exact opposite.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

Brother im not upset at all lol.


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Brother im not upset at all lol.



Cool, it's all good bro we are all here trying to learn and help and share our journey to awesomeness


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 28, 2017)

I prefer to actually run my test higher and adding something like Tren or deca at lower doses. Test is the best.


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## BiologicalChemist (Apr 28, 2017)

I'm on a gram right now..feeling pretty good. Only issue is I for w.e. Reason seem to be getting some appetite suppression when I went to highe doses...which is odd. I feel the more test you take if you're not also upping your food intake you would not see much benefit...u gotta up the food. Idk wtf s wrong with my appetite lately but it's gone down for reasons I can't explain I was able to eat like a horse at 600mg test only a week. Now I'm on 1000mg test, 600deca, 1000mg EQ.. the notorious appetite stimulator yet my appetite went down???


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## Gibsonator (Apr 28, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> I'm on a gram right now..feeling pretty good. Only issue is I for w.e. Reason seem to be getting some appetite suppression when I went to highe doses...which is odd. I feel the more test you take if you're not also upping your food intake you would not see much benefit...u gotta up the food. Idk wtf s wrong with my appetite lately but it's gone down for reasons I can't explain I was able to eat like a horse at 600mg test only a week. Now I'm on 1000mg test, 600deca, 1000mg EQ.. the notorious appetite stimulator yet my appetite went down???



dude my appetite is all over the place too, some days I am starving even after I eat a big meal other days I have 0 appetite and have to force myself to eat wtf


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## Bigmills (Apr 28, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> I'm on a gram right now..feeling pretty good. Only issue is I for w.e. Reason seem to be getting some appetite suppression when I went to highe doses...which is odd. I feel the more test you take if you're not also upping your food intake you would not see much benefit...u gotta up the food. Idk wtf s wrong with my appetite lately but it's gone down for reasons I can't explain I was able to eat like a horse at 600mg test only a week. Now I'm on 1000mg test, 600deca, 1000mg EQ.. the notorious appetite stimulator yet my appetite went down???


I'm not trying to be smart when I ask this and you should know that because you have probably seen this a lot, but are you taking your shots twice a week? also how long have you been on that 1000 mg of EQ?


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## John Ziegler (Apr 28, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> I'm on a gram right now..feeling pretty good. Only issue is I for w.e. Reason seem to be getting some appetite suppression when I went to highe doses...which is odd. I feel the more test you take if you're not also upping your food intake you would not see much benefit...u gotta up the food. Idk wtf s wrong with my appetite lately but it's gone down for reasons I can't explain I was able to eat like a horse at 600mg test only a week. Now I'm on 1000mg test, 600deca, 1000mg EQ.. the notorious appetite stimulator yet my appetite went down???



My bet would be on the nandrolone never happened to me on 600mgs but have heard it happen to a few buddies.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 28, 2017)

Bigmills said:


> I Believe in what you're saying, so can I ask you a question? Last cycle was 600 mg of test e twice a week and 400 tren A ED. Also I was running 20 mg of aromasin then bumped it up to 40 because I'm so gyno prone, but it did not help so I added .5 mg of caber twice a week witch seemed  to help tremendously. However this cycle starting in 2 weeks my coach wants me running 800 mg of test 500 mg of deca and 250mg of Tren E. Can you give me any advice to stop the gyno witch  is from prolactin or estrogen?
> I appreciate any feedback you can give me doc. .



Prolactin doesn't cause gyno and caber or prami won't help. If your coach is telling you what drugs to take he should be helping you with ancillaries too.

You should have nolva if gyno is an issue and e2 gets out of control. Attempt to control e2 primarily with aromasin. Have adex on hand in case you want to lower circulating e2 when the aromasin dose is too low.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

Bigmills said:


> I Believe in what you're saying, so can I ask you a question? Last cycle was 600 mg of test e twice a week and 400 tren A ED. Also I was running 20 mg of aromasin then bumped it up to 40 because I'm so gyno prone, but it did not help so I added .5 mg of caber twice a week witch seemed  to help tremendously. However this cycle starting in 2 weeks my coach wants me running 800 mg of test 500 mg of deca and 250mg of Tren E. Can you give me any advice to stop the gyno witch  is from prolactin or estrogen?
> I appreciate any feedback you can give me doc. .



if you've had gyno in the past or know you're gyno prone then I would suggest using blood work to help determine an appropriate ai dose to keep your estradiol levels within a range to keep your symptoms to a minimum. I prefer adex over aromasin for a few reasons. If that's not enough, you can add nolva at 20mg daily.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 28, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> if you've had gyno in the past or know you're gyno prone then I would suggest using blood work to help determine an appropriate ai dose to keep your estradiol levels within a range to keep your symptoms to a minimum. I prefer adex over aromasin for a few reasons. If that's not enough, you can add nolva at 20mg daily.



At some point we need to hash this one out - adex vs aromasin and why.  I can't quite see why adex would be preferred. Curious what I am missing.


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## Bigmills (Apr 28, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> if you've had gyno in the past or know you're gyno prone then I would suggest using blood work to help determine an appropriate ai dose to keep your estradiol levels within a range to keep your symptoms to a minimum. I prefer adex over aromasin for a few reasons. If that's not enough, you can add nolva at 20mg daily.


Thank you brother I appreciate that feedback. Since I am running long Esther's like enanthate and deca i don't think I'm going to add the tren in this time. should I wait six to eight weeks to get the blood work done or can I get it done sooner like 4 weeks?


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> At some point we need to hash this one out - adex vs aromasin and why.  I can't quite see why adex would be preferred. Curious what I am missing.


 I don't have any science backing that it's better but I like that Arimadex can be used EOD or even E3D vs aromasin that typically needs to be dosed ED due to the half life.


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## MrRippedZilla (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> At some point we need to hash this one out - adex vs aromasin and why.  I can't quite see why adex would be preferred. Curious what I am missing.



In for that conversation. It's been a while since I looked into the topic, and I'm not hunting down my notes now, but I also preferred aromasin for w/e reason.


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## Bigmills (Apr 28, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> In for that conversation. It's been a while since I looked into the topic, and I'm not hunting down my notes now, but I also preferred aromasin for w/e reason.


Only reason I like aromasin is because it blocks more estrogen however everyone's body is different..me personally my E2 goes up quick..


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## BiologicalChemist (Apr 28, 2017)

Can anyone chime in on higher doses of gear and loss of appetite? Why? Anyone else? Is it something to do with metabolism? ....doesn't make sense to me but second time I noticed this side on high doses vs lower

i prefer Aromasin over adex


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 28, 2017)

I used adex and asin both work the same to me


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## automatondan (Apr 28, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> Can anyone chime in on higher doses of gear and loss of appetite? Why? Anyone else? Is it something to do with metabolism? ....doesn't make sense to me but second time I noticed this side on high doses vs lower
> 
> i prefer Aromasin over adex



Im only venturing a guess here, so maybe someone with more concrete evidence will chime in... but I would assume that it has to do with toxicity in the body and/or the drastic hormonal imbalances (along with issues/discrepancies in our blood work). But again, this is just a guess...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> At some point we need to hash this one out - adex vs aromasin and why.  I can't quite see why adex would be preferred. Curious what I am missing.



We had that one thread a while back with Regs, you and I posting about it. I can move some of the pertinent posts here or copy and paste them. 

Basically, no clinical significance has ever been found in regards to aromasin's suicidal properties. Adex requires less frequent dosing, it's more potent mg for my, it has the ability to lower estrogen significantly more than aromasin, it's cheaper, and it isn't required to be eaten with a fatty meal for increased bioavailability AFAIK


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

Bigmills said:


> Thank you brother I appreciate that feedback. Since I am running long Esther's like enanthate and deca i don't think I'm going to add the tren in this time. should I wait six to eight weeks to get the blood work done or can I get it done sooner like 4 weeks?



I really liked doing tren and deca together but it's up to you and your coach to decide one way or the other. 

Do bloods around 6wks in so the deca has more time to get closer to steady state.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> In for that conversation. It's been a while since I looked into the topic, and I'm not hunting down my notes now, but I also preferred aromasin for w/e reason.



The lines have been drawn. Prepare to do battle on the Internet


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

Bigmills said:


> Only reason I like aromasin is because it blocks more estrogen however everyone's body is different..me personally my E2 goes up quick..



Aromasin doesn't reduce estrogen more than adex.


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## MrRippedZilla (Apr 28, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> Can anyone chime in on higher doses of gear and loss of appetite? Why? Anyone else? Is it something to do with metabolism? ....doesn't make sense to me but second time I noticed this side on high doses vs lower



That is an EXCELLENT question that I'll keep in mind for the future. 

My educated guess says it has something to do with the positive impact test (and *assuming *most derivatives) have on serotonin and dopamine as well some the potential negative effect on digestion itself (well, the gut IIRC, microbiota and all that jazz). Basically if you want eat a lot, improving dopamine sensitivity and increases serotonin are bad things. 
I know for a fact that testosterone has a positive effect on central serotonin = reduced appetite. I also know that reducing estrogen, at least in women, reduces testosterone and that *may *be a way to get things going again. 
So yes, metabolism, but you really need to isolate what part is causing the issue since "metabolism" covers a lot of ground.

I'll stop there otherwise I'll just be mumbling without my notes. Great question though


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> At some point we need to hash this one out - adex vs aromasin and why.  I can't quite see why adex would be preferred. Curious what I am missing.


My endo said adex is easier to "manipulate"....not sure what that means. I dont like it bc the tabs are too phucking small to cut in half lol. I believe her bc shes hot af lbs.


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 28, 2017)

What ever you can get in human grade is the best.Both lower estrogen


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 28, 2017)

Bigmills said:


> Only reason I like aromasin is because it blocks more estrogen however everyone's body is different..me personally my E2 goes up quick..



Aromasin stops the conversion to e2. So e2 never actually rises (ideally)

Adex knocks down estrogen which is already circulating 

Two different actions. I just like the idea of prevention.


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Aromasin stops the conversion to e2. So e2 never actually rises (ideally)
> 
> Adex knocks down estrogen which is already circulating
> 
> Two different actions. I just like the idea of prevention.


 Now this, I did not know. Interesting


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Aromasin stops the conversion to e2. So e2 never actually rises (ideally)
> 
> Adex knocks down estrogen which is already circulating
> 
> Two different actions. I just like the idea of prevention.



Adex and aromasin both bind to the aromatase enzyme and prevent aromatization into estrogen. Neither can lower circulating estrogen that's already been converted.


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 28, 2017)

Im right you motherfukkers!


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 28, 2017)

I find adex to knock out the nip itche the best..now go fuk your selves


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 28, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Adex and aromasin both bind to the aromatase enzyme and prevent aromatization into estrogen. Neither can lower circulating estrogen that's already been converted.


What about letro? I though that killed circulating estrogen as referred?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> What about letro? I though that killed circulating estrogen as referred?



All AIs work by binding to the aromatase enzyme and preventing it from making estrogen. Aromasin binds irreversibly so the enzyme is permanently deactivated (but don't mistake this for a benefit bc no benefits have been shown ever). Adex and letro bind temporarily but they bind in such a way that is more specific and effective for suppression of estrogen.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 28, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> Im right you motherfukkers!



Youre always right Bundy. Like shot of good tequila, there's never a question


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## Seeker (Apr 28, 2017)

AR,  to comment on your original question I see nothing wrong with experimenting with running cycles with low test acting still as your base ( always your base ) no need to explain reasons why as you well know, and running your secondary/third  compounds at higher doses. It's pretty damn common among many users and competitors. I myself will be running low test, with high tren, and high mast at the end of my long run. Test being a high androgen compound, at higher doses, can actually increase the Potential for unwanted sides in some cases when combined with other drugs.


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## therealkozmo (Apr 29, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> I'm on a gram right now..feeling pretty good. Only issue is I for w.e. Reason seem to be getting some appetite suppression when I went to highe doses...which is odd. I feel the more test you take if you're not also upping your food intake you would not see much benefit...u gotta up the food. Idk wtf s wrong with my appetite lately but it's gone down for reasons I can't explain I was able to eat like a horse at 600mg test only a week. Now I'm on 1000mg test, 600deca, 1000mg EQ.. the notorious appetite stimulator yet my appetite went down???


Is your e2 under control


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## therealkozmo (Apr 29, 2017)

is your doc giving you prescription to get up that high or is she ok with you supplementing black market


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## knightmare999 (Apr 29, 2017)

I've 750/week T with no bloat, but have read claims that some people experience bloat at higher doses.  Is bloat more of a problem at a gram a week, or only if predisposed or if e2 not kept in check?


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## BiologicalChemist (Apr 29, 2017)

automatondan said:


> Im only venturing a guess here, so maybe someone with more concrete evidence will chime in... but I would assume that it has to do with toxicity in the body and/or the drastic hormonal imbalances (along with issues/discrepancies in our blood work). But again, this is just a guess...




Feeling very good, not toxic or dogshit...taking all precautionary supps ton of water etc so I don't agree with toxicity being my issue but I do see where u are coming from...I do agree with it having something to do with hormonal imbalance and the brain/appetite pathway based on the individual.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 29, 2017)

therealkozmo said:


> is your doc giving you prescription to get up that high or is she ok with you supplementing black market


Who are u asking?


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## therealkozmo (Apr 29, 2017)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Who are u asking?



I am asking you


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 29, 2017)

therealkozmo said:


> I am asking you out on a date



do you give head?


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 29, 2017)

therealkozmo said:


> I am asking you


Yeah she knows i use outside drugs and blast. She has a lot of body builder patients in the area. She tries not to pull my blood unless ive tapered down for a while, but i had a few appointments i had to reschedule and she wanted to see where i was at bc no bloods had been run for over a year. To be honest, i expected levels in the 1200-1400 range. But apparently my drugs are really good sometimes lol. 

She legit probably should have pulled my scripts but never did. I think she wants to bang me, so everyone else will have to wait their turn.


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## Joliver (Apr 29, 2017)

"Take what you want to total"-- Cornelius Coanbread Bigsby J. Oliver.


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## Headboss (Apr 30, 2017)

Hmm after reading this thread.. I think I jumped the gun pretty quick haha. First cycle 500mg a week, second was 750, third was 1000. I noticed the best gains on first second and at 1000.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 30, 2017)

Joliver said:


> "Take what you want to total"-- Cornelius Coanbread Bigsby J. Oliver.



So if I want to total 6, do I take 6mg or 6g?


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## widehips71 (Apr 30, 2017)

knightmare999 said:


> I've 750/week T with no bloat, but have read claims that some people experience bloat at higher doses. Is bloat more of a problem at a gram a week, or only if predisposed or if e2 not kept in check?


 
	Elevated e2 is a direct causation for bloat (in my personal experience), regardless of test dose.  There are other factors to take into consideration, such as diet and water intake


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## therealkozmo (May 1, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> do you give head?


This is about gear not about queer


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 3, 2021)

therealkozmo said:


> This is about gear not about queer



gear and queer go together like peanut butter n jelly


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## MrRogers (Aug 7, 2021)

To the original question- my doc told me from the get that endogenous test is like filling a cup of drinking water. Once its filled- you can keep pouring into the cup but nothing is going to change.


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## BrotherIron (Aug 7, 2021)

Personally for me, I found 750mg/wk to be my sweet spot.  I ran Test as high as 1.25gr/ wk but only did that once many many years ago.


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## 69nites (Aug 7, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> gear and queer go together like peanut butter n jelly


Bundy did you just come back to a post 4 years later to get a little zing in? 

For the thread topic. I don't really ever push my test dosages anymore. Trial and error with my own blasts, I'm better off running 750mg across 3 compounds than a gram of test.


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 7, 2021)

69nites said:


> Bundy did you just come back to a post 4 years later to get a little zing in?
> 
> For the thread topic. I don't really ever push my test dosages anymore. Trial and error with my own blasts, I'm better off running 750mg across 3 compounds than a gram of test.


Lol I didn’t notice how old this is ...


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## eazy (Aug 7, 2021)

MrRogers said:


> To the original question- my doc told me from the get that endogenous test is like filling a cup of drinking water. Once its filled- you can keep pouring into the cup but nothing is going to change.


that may not be true.


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## FearThaGear (Aug 7, 2021)

I have gone as much as 1.5 g per week and the only thing I really noticed was a lot more bloat. I like to stay lean so it's a no-go for me these days


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## eazy (Aug 7, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> I have gone as much as 1.5 g per week and the only thing I really noticed was a lot more bloat. I like to stay lean so it's a no-go for me these days


please tell me the dose where the diminishing returns started. 

was there a difference between 500 and 1g?


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## FearThaGear (Aug 7, 2021)

eazy said:


> please tell me the dose where the diminishing returns started.
> 
> was there a difference between 500 and 1g?


I don't know that I could honestly say where it begins but I know that even at 1g, the bloat that I get is not worth it.

I guess a guy could throw in aromasin a bit higher or possibly a diuretic but for me I'll pass on all that.

Don't get me wrong, there's definitely still gaines in there especially in strength but it's just an uncomfortable bloated feeling that I don't like having when I go that high.

I don't do more than 500 mg / per week now. If I feel like I want to get more out of a cycle than that, I'll throw in another compound but usually just up my protein and carbs up a bit to get more of a surplus in calories.

I'm definitely not an expert and this is just my personal experience.


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## Skullcrusher (Aug 7, 2021)

8.2g is too much


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## #TheMatrix (Aug 7, 2021)

....because at 300lbs of mass and 5'9 is healthy.

Cruise and live long.


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## GreatGunz (Aug 14, 2021)

When I was actively cycling I kept my weekly mgs.no higher than 1200 mg total ( orals included)…..


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## pgc648 (Sep 10, 2021)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Got my bloodwork in. Had a 2860 test score. Talked to the doc, pretty much rediculous conversation. Shes cool af but thought anything over a 2k test is over kill. Said "youre either anabolic or catabolic... once you reach 2000+ its pretty much useless from my medical standpoint."
> 
> This raises a legit question. I achieved these levels by 500mg test e a week. Ive superdosed at 1g weekly in the past, but for what? Im claiming too many people over use test and underappreciate the importance of their secondary or tertiary stacked anabolics. They obviously have way different effects on the individual anabolically as they dont register on the hormonal panel. Weve appreciated this sentiment in the use of trenbolone, but other anabolics seem to be overlooked.
> 
> ...


I had a 6500 total testosterone score come back on a blood test. The doctor looked at it looked at me looked at it shook his head into the lab must have made a mistake. Thing is I was only taking 750 mg of cyponaite at the time.
For someone on a pretty good cycle of testosterone 2600 is not a huge number. Yes it is a huge number for a doctor to see that's looking for natural testosterone levels cuz no one has a natural testosterone level of 2600 that lives and doesn't take testosterone. But if you're taking 500 to 750 testosterone a week it should be higher than 2600. Of course depending on how long you've been on it and also when you last shot was.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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