# Dr Scally` PCT



## Pikiki

I want to heard from you guys, what you guys think about Dr Scally PCT protocol. I know when I start reading about it I got confused cause is way diffrent what he stated base on his studies from what I read before. Lets be clear on a fact tha he work with guys who were on AAS cycle of test Cyp and Nandrolone decanoate for 12 weeks. His method is kind of diffrent from what I heard or read before I got this read thanks to Cobra Strike here in the forum.

First- they administration of PCT meds start the day after AAS cessation. We know for most part we wait for about 14-21 days for long esters to clear or when start feeling the crash to start PCT.

Second- The first 16 days a large amount of HCG was used in order to increase the mass of the testes so that they could sustain output of testosterone sooner. The HCG was stopped about the time the esters cleared so that estrogenic activity from the HCG would be reduced. I read before this is a waste of HCG but he stated this method is more effective( at least for test C & 19nor which is in this case)

Third-during those 16 days of HCG treatment 2 SERM`s drugs were also used, clomid and nolvadex. This is way the opposite of what everyones recommend on almost every PCT log I have read before. He stated tha contrary of what is typically recommend was succesfull on 19 men on this study. After HCG treatment was stoped the 2 SERM`s drugs will continued administrated for another few weeks.

Ok lets take a look how this PCT was used so we can discuss here what is the diffrence between what is recommed it on most of the PCT threads and what they used for this study.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

I will like to heard your opinions on this PCT and start a good discussion about it.

Ok we cover this part, AI is also look from Dr Scally as part of a PCT. He said there is some evidence that adding Nolva to an AI does not increase the effectiveness of estro control therefore Nolva has no real advantage alongside an AI unless one is experiencing gyno. In addition that Nolva has shown to reduce IGF-1 and GH levels. During a cycle is not to worried about too much cause test increase IGF-1 levels on a dose dependant relationship. But for PCT is a diffrent story cause that can be a not very pleasent feeling at this point. His AI of choice is Aromasin during cycle and PCT as well for the simply fact on his conclusion that Aromasin does its job on the enzymes and those particular enzymes will longer function. A type II AI will compete with the aromatase enzyme and then eventually unbind from it and it will be active again, this can cause the undesirable estro bound. 

This is such of interesting read for me that I share this info with some close friends here in the forum( you all my friends BTW) There is so much to read about this guy and his base on stuides results from AAS user and their recovery that is amazing IMO. Please post your thoughs and lets discuss about this base on our readings, reaserch and experience. 


Pikiki


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## Tilltheend

I have never thought to do that with HCG. This sounds like a solid PCT, worth a try. Thank you, I learned something.


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## Jada

Pikki great post good read


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## Lulu66

Good info bro. 

Ya same pct i have planned for late this summer.


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## Pikiki

Lulu66 said:


> Good info bro.
> 
> Ya same pct i have planned for late this summer.


Did you read about his PCT protocol before or someone suggest you this PCT?


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## Lulu66

I read bout it. A few people recommended it too.


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## Pikiki

Lulu66 said:


> I read bout it. A few people recommended it too.



Nice is diffrent from what I read before. Like the 50/50/50/50 clomid
                                                                       40/40/20/20 nolva


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## Cobra Strike

One correction pikiki....his protocol was slighty revised recently...the one you posted is old. Serm therapy now starts the day after the hcg is finished. This pct is about the best obe out there. The reason we always here the norm like 50/50/50/50 and 40/40/20/20 is because on light cycles that will probably work and a lot of people are just repeating what they read somewhere. Most people don't really understand why things work and how they work....they just do what they are told.

Glad you learned about this pikiki


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## Pikiki

Cobra Strike said:


> One correction pikiki....his protocol was slighty revised recently...the one you posted is old. Serm therapy now starts the day after the hcg is finished. This pct is about the best obe out there. The reason we always here the norm like 50/50/50/50 and 40/40/20/20 is because on light cycles that will probably work and a lot of people are just repeating what they read somewhere. Most people don't really understand why things work and how they work....they just do what they are told.
> 
> Glad you learned about this pikiki



Thnx to you bro, you point me on the right direction, Ok so I will look at his updated one cause I still got some reads to do about all the info I found from him. Thnx for the update Cobra


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## beasto

Nice read there Pikki...I've always been comfortable @ 500IU HCG while on cycle.


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## NbleSavage

Good read. Cheers.


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## Pikiki

beasto said:


> Nice read there Pikki...I've always been comfortable @ 500IU HCG while on cycle.


Me too I was ok with that till Cobra told me about this and change my mind.



NbleSavage said:


> Good read. Cheers.



Thnx bros I share what I learn...


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## Killing Time

Thanks for this info, i have been spending lastw few months on and off reading up on different types of aas and what is best to use for a first cycle, but i am starting to see how important if not more important, pct is in relation to aas cycle.
Op post is pretty informative, and i am going to keep educating myself on pct, and how it actually works etc., before i embark on a cycle.


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## Pikiki

Killing Time said:


> Thanks for this info, i have been spending lastw few months on and off reading up on different types of aas and what is best to use for a first cycle, but i am starting to see how important if not more important, pct is in relation to aas cycle.
> Op post is pretty informative, and i am going to keep educating myself on pct, and how it actually works etc., before i embark on a cycle.



Thnx man we all here help each other out like a family. If you need any answers for the questions you may have just open a thread or jump in the shout box brotha. PCT is as important as AAS for the recovery and go back to normal hormones levels. You are welcome here always brotha


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## Azog

I think Ill give this a try next run. Thanks for the post!


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## Pikiki

Azog said:


> I think Ill give this a try next run. Thanks for the post!



Always is good to try techniques for recovery faster specially back up by medical studies like this one. Scally is a Genius on this...


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## Cyborg

If I ever did want to attempt a restart, Scally's power pct is what I would run.


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## 69nites

Honestly I thought these concepts were common sense.

Hcg blast whenever you need it and right before you start your pct. I don't do the clomid thing myself since torem/aromasin works well for me. Always have some on hand tho. Just in case.


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## Pikiki

69nites said:


> Honestly I thought these concepts were common sense.QUOTE]
> 
> Common sense for the one who knows what it is, but for others is new thats why this info is important to have it on the boards.


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## 69nites

Pikiki said:


> 69nites said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I thought these concepts were common sense.QUOTE]
> 
> Common sense for the one who knows what it is, but for others is new thats why this info is important to have it on the boards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just never heard of this Dr scally before. Is he actually the origin of all modern pct?
Click to expand...


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## Pikiki

69nites said:


> Pikiki said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just never heard of this Dr scally before. Is he actually the origin of all modern pct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My brother Dr Scally is a GURU of PCT`s he also proovide consultations to AAS users who are in a shut down status and can`t recovery from normal PCT`s. He is also a Member on a forum when he answers question in regards of this topic and more... I suggest you to google it he`s studies are great and very indetail on how to deal not only PCT`s but wit so many related topics with AAS. BTW he also in facebook and almost daily he posted articles about studies of HCG, TRT and many other things.
Click to expand...


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## Cashout

Scally did publish this protocol in a conference proceeding and it is based on some very reliable personal expereiences as well as some solid scientific underpinnings.

I've used his basic protocol many times myself but I do feel like it is important to give credit to the two men that originated this PCT protocol - Dan Duchaine and Fred Hatfield.

This basic protocol has been around since the late 1980s. How do I know? I used it that long ago per the suggestion of the to men mention above.

Duchaine was the first to recognize and widely support the Nolv/Clomid combo as a means to elevate LH/FSH. Hatfield was among the first (if not the first) to publicly explain and endores the use of HCG. He wrote a book that was published in 1985 called "A Scientific Approach to Bodybuilding" in which he discuss two options for using HCG - on cycle and post cycle.

I would also state that with the advances in 3G AIs that an AI is very important to include in this PCT protocol. I know Scally is not a fan of this and give some eveidence why an AI should not be used. I will respectfully disagree with Scally on this point give my use of the protocol both with and without and AI. With and AI, it works much much better. There are a couple of reasons that is the case. The first, and most important is the intertesticular aromatazation that occurs with the use of HCG. Yes, it is significant and has been documents so recent research. This must be controlled. Left unchecked it can contribute to negative feedback and induce suppression. In fact, what you could get a s nice "jump start" to your testes and some up tick in LH/FSH from the clomid/nolva only to see a subsequent crash from the estrogen generated as a result of the HCG.

The key with using an AI with this protocol is to taper it out very slowly over several weeks - read 4-6 weeks after the Nolv is finished.

That is were most guys can goof this up because they get in a hurry and their impatient nature leads to them just quit PCT after the Nolva is through. Don't do that. 

Lastly, with this and any PCT, make sure you wait until the ester of the AAS have approximated a non-physiological level in your system before starting your PCT. Otherwise, you'll just be fighting a loosing battle.


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## Pikiki

Thnx for this info Cashout, one thing I do had in one of Scally`s reports is the use of AI while on PVT and he also recommend Aromasin and explain the reason why he choose this one over Arimidex and Letro. At no point I have not suggest here for the guys not use an AI for PCT ( just clear that point brotha) I do knew that Dan Duchaine and Fred Hatfield were part of the protocol but not they were the actual guys who start it, thnx for this as I learn a very important point here. If you do have more info or reports of any kind of information related with this topic and if is possible PM with the links or email me what you got about this,please. I do love read about this topics get what I can the best to improve and help others.


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## Cashout

Pikiki said:


> Thnx for this info Cashout, one thing I do had in one of Scally`s reports is the use of AI while on PVT and he also recommend Aromasin and explain the reason why he choose this one over Arimidex and Letro. At no point I have not suggest here for the guys not use an AI for PCT ( just clear that point brotha) I do knew that Dan Duchaine and Fred Hatfield were part of the protocol but not they were the actual guys who start it, thnx for this as I learn a very important point here. If you do have more info or reports of any kind of information related with this topic and if is possible PM with the links or email me what you got about this,please. I do love read about this topics get what I can the best to improve and help others.



I know Scally has suggested the use of Asin on cycle lately. I am surprised he would suggest that AI for PCT since it is a steroidal AI and has been shown to exhibit some androgenic activity. There is no specific conclusions as to the level of androgenic nature of Asin but I would think in PCT that it would be best to avoid any unnecessary androgenic activity to preclude any feedback into the HPTA that could affect restoration.

Just my 2 cents and why I don't like Asin in PCT.


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## Pikiki

Cashout said:


> I know Scally has suggested the use of Asin on cycle lately. I am surprised he would suggest that AI for PCT since it is a steroidal AI and has been shown to exhibit some androgenic activity. There is no specific conclusions as to the level of androgenic nature of Asin but I would think in PCT that it would be best to avoid any unnecessary androgenic activity to preclude any feedback into the HPTA that could affect restoration.
> 
> Just my 2 cents and why I don't like Asin in PCT.




Nice discussion here brotha, this is what is all about. I have discuss this point with Cobra once and he told me the same you did now, I believe he goes in base of trying to avoid estro rebound if I remember well that was the reason he suggested Aromasin. This will be a personal choice?? I will try both and compare the 2 and see which one feels and works better, this if I don`t get back on TRT in my last evaluation coming up in Sept-Oct. (Hopefully not).  BTW with Adex wich I`m using right now on PCT (and I used it on cycle as well) at .5mg e3d was plan, I don`t see needs at this point to use it so lets see after nolva how it goes. Hey brotha thnx for your point of view and post I like discussions that help the members and myself.


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## LeanHerm

Hes on my Facebook and he has great info posted everyday.  A lot of the stuff I do not understand but reading is knowing.  That's how we learn.


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## Pikiki

BigHerm said:


> Hes on my Facebook and he has great info posted everyday.  A lot of the stuff I do not understand but reading is knowing.  That's how we learn.



Yep me too Sir sometimes I`m like WTF is this but he post some great shit there


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## Cobra Strike

cashout thank you for sharing that info...I completely agree with you on the need for an AI during pct and extended past. Ive basically been preaching the same stuff you have just said and it feels good to have another such as yourself here to back that up....as I did learn quite a bit from you on this subject. Personal experience has helped me gain more insight for myself but you gave me an excellent base to research and learn from..good posts my man!


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## Pikiki

The same way you did to me, put me on the way of reaserch about it. Thnx bud


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## HH

Good read sir


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## j2048b

Read about this same pct yesterday in anabolics 9th edition! I believe it is explained more in that book, ill look and post it a bit later as i am at work now.


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## stb1041

Cobra Strike said:


> One correction pikiki....his protocol was slighty revised recently...the one you posted is old. Serm therapy now starts the day after the hcg is finished. This pct is about the best obe out there. The reason we always here the norm like 50/50/50/50 and 40/40/20/20 is because on light cycles that will probably work and a lot of people are just repeating what they read somewhere. Most people don't really understand why things work and how they work....they just do what they are told.
> 
> Glad you learned about this pikiki



So now we are to start the HCG the day after our last testosterone injection, and do JUST HCG @ 2500IU EOD for 16 days, and then after the HCG, start the clomid and nolva??  So the revised/correct PCT protocol would be:

Day 1-16: 2500iu HCG every other day.
Starting on day 17:
4 weeks of: Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Followed by:
2 weeks of: Nolva 20mg/day

So that would be about an 8 week PCT

And it is debated whether or not to use an A.I. during pct, but you could use Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED or EOD throughout entire pct and even a few weeks after pct??


Please let me know if I understand this correctly


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## Cobra Strike

stb1041 said:


> So now we are to start the HCG the day after our last testosterone injection, and do JUST HCG @ 2500IU EOD for 16 days, and then after the HCG, start the clomid and nolva??  So the revised/correct PCT protocol would be:
> 
> Day 1-16: 2500iu HCG every other day.
> Starting on day 17:
> 4 weeks of: Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
> Followed by:
> 2 weeks of: Nolva 20mg/day
> 
> So that would be about an 8 week PCT
> 
> And it is debated whether or not to use an A.I. during pct, but you could use Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED or EOD throughout entire pct and even a few weeks after pct??
> 
> 
> Please let me know if I understand this correctly



Ok ya you got this pretty confused bro...thats ok cause thats what we are hear for. What is your cycle and dosages?


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## stb1041

Cobra Strike said:


> Ok ya you got this pretty confused bro...thats ok cause thats what we are hear for. What is your cycle and dosages?



I'm taking:
Week 1-4: DBol @ 40mg/day
Week 1-12: Test Cyp @ 500mg/week (2 shots)
Week 1-12: Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED

I have hcg, nolva, and clomid on hand


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## Pikiki

stb1041 said:


> I'm taking:
> Week 1-4: DBol @ 40mg/day
> Week 1-12: Test Cyp @ 500mg/week (2 shots)
> Week 1-12: Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED
> 
> I have hcg, nolva, and clomid on hand



IMO and pretty sure Cobra will tell you the same. For this kind of cycle (light cycle) you can run the HCG at 1000ius cause this particular protocol is for 19nor. I said you can do this for PCT and recover without a problem.
HCG start one day after last shot of cyp @1000iu eod
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20/20
Aromasin 15 days after nolva / I know Cobra likes the Arimidex but either one you got on hand make sure sure your taper off during this days till the end. 

Reason for AI is to prevent estro rebound, MAKE sure you get bloods done so  you know where your e2 levels are so you know if you doses are on point with your recovery.


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## stb1041

Pikiki said:


> IMO and pretty sure Cobra will tell you the same. For this kind of cycle (light cycle) you can run the HCG at 1000ius cause this particular protocol is for 19nor. I said you can do this for PCT and recover without a problem.
> HCG start one day after last shot of cyp @1000iu eod
> Clomid 100/50/50/50
> Nolva 40/40/20/20/20
> Aromasin 15 days after nolva / I know Cobra likes the Arimidex but either one you got on hand make sure sure your taper off during this days till the end.
> 
> Reason for AI is to prevent estro rebound, MAKE sure you get bloods done so  you know where your e2 levels are so you know if you doses are on point with your recovery.



Thanks for the response bro.  So do the 1000iu EOD for 16 days (8 shots), then clomid and nolva for 4 weeks, then nolva by itself for 1 week, and take my aromasin throughout the entire cycle/pct and continue to take aromasin for another 15 days after I finish my last week of nolva?


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## booze

2500iu eod seems excessive with possible desensitization of the lyedig cells? Why not run hcg throughout cycle rather than leave yr testes dormant for 12 weeks and then try and jump start them back to life?
Best pct for me has been aromasin and Clomid for 4 weeks at 25/25/12.5/12.5 and 100/100/50/50mg.


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## Pikiki

stb1041 said:


> Thanks for the response bro.  So do the 1000iu EOD for 16 days (8 shots), then clomid and nolva for 4 weeks, then nolva by itself for 1 week, and take my aromasin throughout the entire cycle/pct and continue to take aromasin for another 15 days after I finish my last week of nolva?



Yes that it works like you stated..NP thats why we are here for


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## Cobra Strike

Pikiki said:


> IMO and pretty sure Cobra will tell you the same. For this kind of cycle (light cycle) you can run the HCG at 1000ius cause this particular protocol is for 19nor. I said you can do this for PCT and recover without a problem.
> HCG start one day after last shot of cyp @1000iu eod
> Clomid 100/50/50/50
> Nolva 40/40/20/20/20
> Aromasin 15 days after nolva / I know Cobra likes the Arimidex but either one you got on hand make sure sure your taper off during this days till the end.
> 
> Reason for AI is to prevent estro rebound, MAKE sure you get bloods done so  you know where your e2 levels are so you know if you doses are on point with your recovery.



This is good info. The only thing I would change is the time you start your blast. I am against starting your blast the day after your last test shot. The blast, IMO, should be started when your supra-physiological test levels fall to normal or just a little below. This allows your body to come out of its suppressive state and start sending the proper signals to get your hormones naturally producing again. So since you are doing CYP at 500mg a week I would wait 14-15 days before starting your blast to let your levels reduce. However, During this wait you can still use the normal hcg protocol that you would use on cycle as well. Your testicles can recieve all the LH signal they want but they will not start producing natural testosterone until your body is done being suppressed.


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## stb1041

Cobra Strike said:


> This is good info. The only thing I would change is the time you start your blast. I am against starting your blast the day after your last test shot. The blast, IMO, should be started when your supra-physiological test levels fall to normal or just a little below. This allows your body to come out of its suppressive state and start sending the proper signals to get your hormones naturally producing again. So since you are doing CYP at 500mg a week I would wait 14-15 days before starting your blast to let your levels reduce. However, During this wait you can still use the normal hcg protocol that you would use on cycle as well. Your testicles can recieve all the LH signal they want but they will not start producing natural testosterone until your body is done being suppressed.



Thanks Cobra!  So do you recommend shooting 500iu of HCG a week throughout the whole cycle?


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## Cobra Strike

stb1041 said:


> Thanks Cobra!  So do you recommend shooting 500iu of HCG a week throughout the whole cycle?



its always good to keep your testicles making ITT so in my opinion it is beneficial. Put it this way...it cant hurt!


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## Cobra Strike

booze said:


> 2500iu eod seems excessive with possible desensitization of the lyedig cells? Why not run hcg throughout cycle rather than leave yr testes dormant for 12 weeks and then try and jump start them back to life?
> Best pct for me has been aromasin and Clomid for 4 weeks at 25/25/12.5/12.5 and 100/100/50/50mg.



the only clinical study that has shown desensitization has documented it at a dose larger then 5000iu at once. I cant find the study now but I know I read it lol so trust me or not


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