# For the guys not ready to dip into Tren waters....



## Infantry87 (Apr 14, 2012)

So last year, I tested out a Tren E/ Test E cycle and not all went well with this one. Long story short, I had to get out and PCT quickly from it. So, my question is, would a  short estered Test/Primo(methenolone acetate) be a sufficent substitute? Or a similar cycle just with long esters Test E/Masteron(Drostanolone Enanthate) also do the trick? HGH WILL BE USED WITH THIS!!!
I've heard from many that TREN is a god like compound and nothing compares to this or it's capabilities, but I'm willing to put this to the test but we all know Masteron and Primo have to be ran at higher doses for great results. Also, I know some say that ACE/ENTH are completely different so therefor if you ACE, it'll b that much easier to get out if need be. Honestly, the ENTH scarred me and makes me not even wanna go near Tren again but I'm open for suggestions. Feel free to tell me to quit being a pussy or give any advice for this cycle or a better option.


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## Gstacker (Apr 14, 2012)

What was it that scared u so much with the tren e? Jus curious.... As far as the primo for a substitute I guess that would depend on what u were looking to get out of the tren... Prolly won't get the strength gains but primo is the shit.


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## Phatbastard (Apr 14, 2012)

The Only diff between A/E with tren is the ester! You cabn escape side with Ace with in a few days if you have them as aposed to a couple weeks! I personally like Tren E, You can do similar thing as Tren with Mast or Primo in higher doses but to me theres no comparison Many will argue that point. I'm planning on switch between Tren and mast this next cycle! As an experiment but I'm also running 20 weeks so I have that ability. My personal preff is Test C or E along with Tren E 400mg of each. I get solid gains from this. I will be running Dbal 30mg as well. This next cycle is going to be a full on experiment for me.


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## Zeek (Apr 14, 2012)

I like the test primo combo very much!  Test and masteron is also good.

 I'll be switching tren out of my cycle and replacing with primo soon.


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## Lulu66 (Apr 14, 2012)

Wuts so bad about tren? I heard bout the night swets. Anything else?


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 14, 2012)

Lulu66 said:


> Wuts so bad about tren? I heard bout the night swets. Anything else?


 
It's divorce in a bottle. It sits in my closet. I stare at it sometimes wondering. Wondering if my relationship is strong enough lol


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## Infantry87 (Apr 14, 2012)

Nightsweats, insomnia, feeling like you wanna kill someone everyday/all day. Tren put me in a very dark place but honestly I'm willing to give Tren Ace a shot.


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## Gstacker (Apr 14, 2012)

Lulu66 said:


> Wuts so bad about tren? I heard bout the night swets. Anything else?



Besides all the sides it comes with it's pretty toxic to you're body, wouldn't want to run it for to long....


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## LeanHerm (Apr 14, 2012)

High bp, cholesterol goes to shit. Pretty much everything does that though , but tren makes you an animal in the gym.


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## DarksideSix (Apr 14, 2012)

This is why i always use, and recomend Ace.  if you start getting nasty sides u can get out quick.  Fortunatley for me, i do not get many sides.  just some crazy dreams and occasional night sweats.  It's the king of all kings though!


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 14, 2012)

Ok this needs to be settled here and now....you cannot compare primo or mast at any dose to tren. Its impossible. They will not give the same effects. Insomnia, nightsweats are both very normal sides and you will get those with ace as well. As for feeling like you want to kill someone, well you cant blame that on steroids brotha..that is just a part of you that steroids might enhance. Im running tren at 600 for 30 weeks on my next cycle (hopefully starting in a couple weeks  ). I might bump it up to 7-800 at the 20 week mark because that is when my gains seem to taper off during a cycle. There are quite a few other compounds I will be running as well but tren is no doubt always the star of the show!


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## Zeek (Apr 14, 2012)

Your attitude toward tren reminds me a lot of my good friend Mikey O

 Great guy, straight beast mod in the gym. He regularly bent the olympic bars in the gym he would squat and bench so heavy. He was like a human bull and he lived off tren and test cycles that went on and on and on 

 He is still alive and about 50 now but he is also on dialysis and about 145 lbs now. You might feel immortal now being young but trust that you are not bro!  this body is all we get! break it and that is it.

 30 weeks of tren is excessive!!  and while I feel that you do know what you are doing you are taking risks for what?

 As for primo not being tren like, true especially in relation to agression and strength but get your boys at that new kick ass lab to brew you up some primo 200mg/ml and run it at 1200mg per week for 24 weeks stacked with test and bring some var in and out as you go and i promise you that you will get that lean, mean and dry look that tren gives!  just minus the strength, aggression and sides.

 I hate to being up these horor stories to you guys but I'm old and have lived around gyms and guys that do what we do for over 30 years now and the longer you stay in the game you will see more and more stuff happen to people along the way.

 Be safe bro!  do what you are going to do because you are just that kind of guy but if your body tells you just once to get off, listen to it! all i ask




Cobra Strike said:


> Ok this needs to be settled here and now....you cannot compare primo or mast at any dose to tren. Its impossible. They will not give the same effects. Insomnia, nightsweats are both very normal sides and you will get those with ace as well. As for feeling like you want to kill someone, well you cant blame that on steroids brotha..that is just a part of you that steroids might enhance. Im running tren at 600 for 30 weeks on my next cycle (hopefully starting in a couple weeks  ). I might bump it up to 7-800 at the 20 week mark because that is when my gains seem to taper off during a cycle. There are quite a few other compounds I will be running as well but tren is no doubt always the star of the show!


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## Zeek (Apr 14, 2012)

Now for the reason i popped into this thread.

 One of the truly beautiful attributes that tren has is in it's ability to raise IGF levels significantly. This in turn is why people lean out so well on tren while retaining that hard earned muscle. It will create new satellite muscle cells due to it's IGF boosting properties.

 I am running it right now just because it is as good as it is but I'm running 50mg eod   old man wants to stay a live a bit longer dosages!


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 14, 2012)

Thanks for your concern brotha zeek!! There are ways to protect your body from various issues that guys were not using back in the day, nor most use today. I have a very good vitamin supplementation to keep my bp at normal levels and help support my lipids. I would say the gear is by far the cheapest part of running a cycle. The longest Ive done tren for is 15 weeks and loved every second of it. As long as I can keep my water intake extremely high and piss clear then I feel confident my kidneys will remain at high function. I do understand though that no matter how much we try to combat sides, there are always going to be consequences. If it makes you feel better I may drop the tren at week 28 

as far as tren goes....I feed off that aggression!!!


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## Infantry87 (Apr 14, 2012)

Tren isnt out of the loop just yet. I'm constantly researching and making sure to put all my knowledge into the next cycle plan everytime. From everything I've looked into with Tren, everyone says its nothing short of amazing when ran properly. What vitamins would you guys advise in taking? Honestly, the only vits I take are a multi w/o iron, vit c, vit b complex, as well as niacin,aspirn,and a combo of fish/flax oil.


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## Zeek (Apr 14, 2012)

I'll take you dropping to 28 weeks over 30 Cobra! with a little luck I'll slowly chip away a few more weeks as we go!


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## Phatbastard (Apr 14, 2012)

Cobra 

Better log this with before and after Photos. That is a but load of Tren IMO I don't think I could do it. Many do though. For my self I do so well on 400mg I have justified the need to go past that. I'm not here to Preach I am confident you will know what to do when and if the time comes your a smart man.


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## Bullseye Forever (Apr 15, 2012)

well guys,i want to run a tren cycle,but with my health issues,cholesterol,high BP,although i take meds for them,i just dont think its a good idea,plus my age as well,anyone got any advice,Phat or Cobra?


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## Hurt (Apr 15, 2012)

I'll be having my first tren experience later this year, can't wait!  Cobra you gotta keep us updated on that brother.


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 15, 2012)

Bullseye it doesnt matter what gear you use your lipids and bp will be fucked anyway. Taking meds is a good thing lol

I wouldnt push tren on anyone bullseye...just do what works for you

If I ever get to start a cycle again I will try to log it. I just hate logs because for one I cant even follow my own log let alone others lol

So ez while I was in the shower tonight I was thinking about you (yes in a gay way) and now im thinking of going like this with my next cycle.

1-8 anavar 80mg/d
1-15 tren 700 week
16-30 tren 250-300 week
16-30 npp 600-800 week
1-30 mast e 600-800 week
24-30 anavar 80mg/d
1-indefinitely test e 250 week

Ive been on gh (riptropin) for about 8 months now and will be continuing that through this cycle at 5iu

I figured it might be better to solidify my gains if I use heavy androgens for the back half. I will also be utilizing a carb cycle diet during this cycle. I only run one cycle per year as well.

is that better ez?


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## Sleazy E (Apr 15, 2012)

is this the same EZ we know from over there?


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## Bullseye Forever (Apr 15, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Bullseye it doesnt matter what gear you use your lipids and bp will be fucked anyway. Taking meds is a good thing lol
> 
> I wouldnt push tren on anyone bullseye...just do what works for you
> 
> ...


Thanks Cobra,well ive listened to several people my age and they were against me using it,said i was to old lol,but i handled Deca well,and yea it screwed up my BP and HDL but my meds took care of that,i had to get my BP meds increased,but no biggy ya know,plus i get blood work done at least 4 times during cycle,so I may reconsider........In your  opinion,what dose of test and tren would be good for me? with my size already,and plus i will be using Test cyp and if i decide to use tren,it will be Tren Eth i just dont like EOD injections,and if the sides are to much,i'll just man up and take it,but with all my past "medical history" tren sides shouldnt be any worse than,well lets just say really "strong tylenol and advil type meds,but the meds im talking about are made from the big "O'' drift,my body is nearly tolerant to all of the "O's" if you understand,so i think i could stand tren sides,

My daddy and I used to use tren or the pill form with our cattle so im somewhat familiar with it and what it does,plus i know how to combat all sides with the right ancilliares......

so just give me your best opinion on doses of each brother,if you dont mind,thanks big brother


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## Jada (Apr 15, 2012)

great thread , im doing my first cycle right now as we talk which is test e 500mg , tren is no joke! ive read threads on other boards and its for people like u guys that have a couple of cycles under the belt . also 
what im noticing is newbies doing tren right from the bat on there first cycle. crazy!!!


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## Infantry87 (Apr 15, 2012)

Because they dont take our advice. Im smart enough to admit I was wrong and honestly that was my 3rd cycle so it was prolly too early for Tren anf i shouldve tried the ace ester for a first go with tren. Kids think that this shit is a game and juice cant hurt you. I got a little story for you about a kid that played football with me in high school that did yr long cycles at 17 and was a beast. Now, hes 160lbs soaking wet at 25 and cant produce test naturally so hes on trt for life when I saw him last month.


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## Bullseye Forever (Apr 15, 2012)

Infantry87 said:


> Because they dont take our advice. Im smart enough to admit I was wrong and honestly that was my 3rd cycle so it was prolly too early for Tren anf i shouldve tried the ace ester for a first go with tren. Kids think that this shit is a game and juice cant hurt you. I got a little story for you about a kid that played football with me in high school that did yr long cycles at 17 and was a beast. Now, hes 160lbs soaking wet at 25 and cant produce test naturally so hes on trt for life when I saw him last month.


thats sad man,some kids just dont understand the ramifications of AAS


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## Infantry87 (Apr 15, 2012)

It is sad bull. Shit like this is whats giving AAS a bad name and want to blame steroids. Thats when I have to say pump the breaks. It's shiity planning and not doing research, as well as not understanding the ramifications of the usage. People just think you can pin and youll be fine. I did research for a yr maybe longer before I even thought about it. Its like I say... Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance


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## Zeek (Apr 15, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Bullseye it doesnt matter what gear you use your lipids and bp will be fucked anyway. Taking meds is a good thing lol
> 
> I wouldnt push tren on anyone bullseye...just do what works for you
> 
> ...



  I feel much better about your new proposed cycle than I did about your last one!  Still a really serious business cycle and the risks just were cut by at least half if not more!!  I like it a lot ty sir 



Bullseye Forever said:


> Thanks Cobra,well ive listened to several people my age and they were against me using it,said i was to old lol,but i handled Deca well,and yea it screwed up my BP and HDL but my meds took care of that,i had to get my BP meds increased,but no biggy ya know,plus i get blood work done at least 4 times during cycle,so I may reconsider........In your  opinion,what dose of test and tren would be good for me? with my size already,and plus i will be using Test cyp and if i decide to use tren,it will be Tren Eth i just dont like EOD injections,and if the sides are to much,i'll just man up and take it,but with all my past "medical history" tren sides shouldnt be any worse than,well lets just say really "strong tylenol and advil type meds,but the meds im talking about are made from the big "O'' drift,my body is nearly tolerant to all of the "O's" if you understand,so i think i could stand tren sides,
> 
> My daddy and I used to use tren or the pill form with our cattle so im somewhat familiar with it and what it does,plus i know how to combat all sides with the right ancilliares......
> 
> so just give me your best opinion on doses of each brother,if you dont mind,thanks big brother



  Just so you know bullseye, I am dropping tren from my cycle as soon as the primo I have coming arrives this next week. So in the end I will have been using tren A less than 4 weeks. It was a mistake my BP has been high! I sleep like shit, my skin looks like shit and I went ballistic on some poor rednecks who were grilling outside of a garage at an apartment complex yesterday, that is another story but lets just say things got ugly and that is not in my character or has not been in many years.

 You my friend with your health issues even think of taking tren and I'm making a trip out to the farm to gank your stuff!! I will steal your tren like a thief in the night  this compound is not for me and it is not for older guys and it is ESPECIALLY not for you my friend with the issues it can cause for you

 I know from the outside looking in without all the facts some of you guys might be thinking WTF is up with zeek thinking he should tell bullseye what to use or not to use but there are a few health issues that he has that tren can really make worse. He didn't list it and I'm not putting his business out in public but trust that I might know a thing or two just from being an old fuck watching things happen to other old fucks over the years .

 If I didn't give a crap about you guys I would just hit ya with the "hell yeah bro you will swell the fuck up" and leave it at that.


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## Infantry87 (Apr 15, 2012)

You do care Zeek and thats why we take your advice to heart and actually listen. You,bull,phat,cobra are guys have been in this game a lot longer than most of us. Now with all that said, I'm in my prime and actually wanting to do another cycle with Tren just with ace this time, as well as var/test prop and some Rips hopefully. Now if the sides come on to strong for me, I'll back out because its not worth the risk of something messing me up for life. Also, I'll have primo or mast (not sure which one yet) on the backburner in case it does get bad and ill just sub one of them in


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## Zeek (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm not against younger guys using tren or guys with no health problems using it. Just respect it and be as moderate as you can with it and most important listen to your body. If it wants off the tren it will tell you!


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## Bullseye Forever (Apr 15, 2012)

Ezekiel said:


> I feel much better about your new proposed cycle than I did about your last one!  Still a really serious business cycle and the risks just were cut by at least half if not more!!  I like it a lot ty sir
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh lord i know who you are now lol.....and yet again thanks for the kick in the ass lol,i will listen,i promise


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 15, 2012)

Sleezy E...no ez is short for ezekiel. AKA Zeek on ology. Good bro!

Bullseye, Im gonna have to side with zeek on this one. I know you really want to try it but it is the most toxic substance you can put in your body. I am an extremely healthy 32 year old and I use thousands of dollars in vitamin supplementation to help support a healthy cardiovascular system. I know your health issues and I would just rather see you stick to anavar or primo as zeek stated. 800 primo is like 300 tren basically anyway so you could get alot out of that.

Jada...my very first cycle was tren e lol I listened to a friend about taking steroids before I had any idea there were forums to talk and learn about it. I didnt get huge but I did cut up a lil. No ancillaries with it either. I wouldnt recommend that to anyone. I have only ran one cycle without tren and I kicked myself in the ass for it. Tren is my lover, my addiction. It will be a long time until I run another cycle without it but that is just me. That does not go for most out there. I also have a very good understanding of my body and know what to watch for and how to combat issues before they arise. I guess you could say that im addicted to tren.

Infantry, bro you just need to realize that with great power comes great responsibility (spiderman quote) and tren provides great power. Its your responsibility to control the problems it presents. Its going to give you sides wether its insomnia, aggression, or acne. You should just take a step back and think about whats going on and how you can fix it. Now some sides you cant control such as insomnia. You can take things like lunesta or ambien to help but really its all about manning up brotha. No pain no gain.

Love you guys and only want to see the best for everyone!


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## Jada (Apr 15, 2012)

Hey cobra thank u for the great reply! This is what I like, people who have great knowledge and are 
Willing to share there experience and there advice and care about people . This is how I know  this
Board is going to be great with people like u pb ez and many more!


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## coltmc4545 (Apr 16, 2012)

I had a really short temper when I was younger, real bad. I hit 23 and it calmed way down. I'm on day 10 at 50 mg Ed and my temper seems to be coming back a little. I'm usually pretty patient with the kids and my girl but the last 4 days my patience is short. I can't say it's all from the tren as I'm starting a new job tmrw and we just bought a house, plus the last 5 nights I've had trensomnia. I'm already considering dropping my dose down a little but I'm gonna give it another week and see how I do. I Have a shit ton of ace an was planning on running for 16weeks but I might go 6 off 4 6 on again. I'm just gonna listen to my body and go from there. Im just gla I'm running ace so I can play with the dose a little. If I didn't have the kids I'd probably run e at 6-800 and be a maniac lol


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## LeanHerm (Apr 16, 2012)

Ya tren made me a monster as well.  I didn't have excess anger at all. Matter of fact I was running 600wk of tren hex and didn't get much of sides at all. I'm lucky though i did run caber from the beginning as well as Aromasin. Some people are lucky I guess and I'm one of them


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## Sleazy E (Apr 16, 2012)

yo cobra what steps do you take to fight tren induced acne.

I get these flat red spots all over my back from it. They dont have a head or anything surfacing from it and they arent lumpy. Im really not sure what kind of acne it is but tren gives it to me a short time after starting its use....


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## Georgia (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm impatient as hell on Test...can't imagine how I'd be on Tren. I'm a very calm & patient person IRL...but I've been such a bitch lately...my girlfriend is going to be so happy when I end this cycle


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 16, 2012)

Sleazy E said:


> yo cobra what steps do you take to fight tren induced acne.
> 
> I get these flat red spots all over my back from it. They dont have a head or anything surfacing from it and they arent lumpy. Im really not sure what kind of acne it is but tren gives it to me a short time after starting its use....



I go to the dermatologist brotha..shit gets bad for me. Looks like I have measles. Most of my acne comes from test though. I use doxycycline and clindamiacin.


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## coltmc4545 (Apr 16, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> I go to the dermatologist brotha..shit gets bad for me. Looks like I have measles. Most of my acne comes from test though. I use doxycycline and clindamiacin.



All of which he gets secondary from my semen. I shoot it on his back and then it puts the semen on its skin or else it gets my hose again lol


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## LeanHerm (Apr 16, 2012)

Colt your avi is so small


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 16, 2012)

coltmc4545 said:


> All of which he gets secondary from my semen. I shoot it on his back and then it puts the semen on its skin or else it gets my hose again lol



That is just plain nasty...thanks for the visual lol


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## Sleazy E (Apr 16, 2012)

anyone have any experience with accutane?

My derma put me on it for a few months in my early 20s (before i had touched p.e.d.) but I honestly never looked into its toxicity.
I hear it can be pretty harsh on liver and kidneys but Im wondering if there is a way to use it safely because nothing works like that stuff...


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## DarksideSix (Apr 16, 2012)

Cobra is dead on!

I won't ever run another cycle without Tren either, for me though, i do not get bad sides at all and I can do anything with Tren, bulk, cut, recomp.  Not sure how long i'll be able to do it for thoug as i'm 34......as time goes on, obviously saftey and health is my priority but for now, Tren is my bitch!


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## Phatbastard (Apr 17, 2012)

WELL WELL

Everyone here know my thought on Tren its Nector from the gods! BULLSEYE Getting to know u as I have over time! I"M going to have to SIDE with that Whack job EzekielROY on then tren. You recall our conversations of the past! My friend I think Tren will take u down a road u don't want to be on. You have one of the biggest hearts of anyone on the boards I have met. With out getting to personal here. I'm going to advise against this for u. It will not pay off in the trade off budy TRUST ME on this one. You know how to get intouch if you want to discuss more!


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## Bullseye Forever (Apr 17, 2012)

Phatbastard said:


> WELL WELL
> 
> Everyone here know my thought on Tren its Nector from the gods! BULLSEYE Getting to know u as I have over time! I"M going to have to SIDE with that Whack job EzekielROY on then tren. You recall our conversations of the past! My friend I think Tren will take u down a road u don't want to be on. You have one of the biggest hearts of anyone on the boards I have met. With out getting to personal here. I'm going to advise against this for u. It will not pay off in the trade off budy TRUST ME on this one. You know how to get intouch if you want to discuss more!


i know brother and i appreciate it so much,i just waited about 15 years to long lol to use it,im gonna stick with my test/deca/masteron...all i want to do is be big and intimidating anyway lol and look bad ass on my tractor and a bad ass when im with my beautiful wife,so no one says anything to her lol


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 18, 2012)

Your already there bullseye


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## coltmc4545 (Apr 18, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Your already there bullseye



Yeah you're a beast bullseye. No need to risk it with what you've got goin on with your bp and shit.


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## Bullseye Forever (Apr 18, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Your already there bullseye


lol...well thanks for the compliment


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## Bullseye Forever (Apr 18, 2012)

coltmc4545 said:


> Yeah you're a beast bullseye. No need to risk it with what you've got goin on with your bp and shit.


yea i know,im just not going to chance it


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## Whackor (Apr 26, 2012)

PillarofBalance said:


> It's divorce in a bottle. It sits in my closet. I stare at it sometimes wondering. Wondering if my relationship is strong enough lol



AMEN!!  I've not run Tren but know a couple of guys that have.  The Tren Train is riding a Jeckyll and Hide bullet to psycho land.  I came close to packing up my shit and moving on because of it.  And from what I've been reading on boards.... lots of guys are stearing clear from it.


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