# Dbol and the Liver



## Shane1974 (Jul 9, 2012)

Just how damaging are orals like Dbol and Adrol on the liver? Has anyone ever had liver enzymes checked during a cycle using orals? Do you guys think liver damage is mostly exaggerated?


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## LeanHerm (Jul 9, 2012)

AAS 17aa is like oxidation bomb for your liver cells from what i hear and this cause some problems like eleveted enzymes, but if your GGT in normal range and you have healthy liver then it prob is damaging from stress not necrosis!


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## milleniumgirl (Jul 9, 2012)

The influence of orals on the liver is overrated IMO.  Anavar for example is given to HIV positive (AIDS) patients.  Doctor wouldn't do that if it was bad for the liver ... just saying.


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## LeanHerm (Jul 9, 2012)

Well var goes through the liver once instead of twice like Dbol which makes var not liver toxic.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 9, 2012)

Its definitely over-stated unless you're an idiot and running 100mg dbol... 

Having said that I'm sure its someone individualized. Only way to tell... Get liver function tests done before, during and after a course of dbol... It won't give a perfect picture, but something close at least.


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## Cashout (Jul 9, 2012)

What I am writing applies to otherwise healthy individuals with no history of hepatic disease such as Hep A/B/C, Cirrhosis, ect.

An elevation in liver enzymes like AST and ALT is not indicative of actual liver damage.

Enzymatic elevations are indicators of additional stress or work load on the liver. Over time, extensive stress can contribute to liver damage.

When using oral application as a means of administration, liver enzyme elevations are considered "typical and expected" until they reach a "clinical level" which is generally characterized as 3X one's base line.

For example, my AST and ALT base line values are 30 and 32. Most physicians would not be overly concerned about hepatic stress until my numbers read 90+ level. 

Short term use of orals will likely produce hepatic stress in proportion to the total milligram amount of the drug used. 

As long as the duration of use is limited to 6 weeks, hepatic stress is not a particular concern.

Again, this assumes one has no previous hepatic conditions.


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## AndroSport (Jul 9, 2012)

BigHerm said:


> Well var goes through the liver once instead of twice like Dbol which makes var not liver toxic.



Yeah, BUT, a really smart POB... i mean SOB... really smart SOB once told me that although GayAvar only hits the liver once it hits your Labia at least 5-10x so it is very strenuous on all that business


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## Pikiki (Jul 9, 2012)

I strongly belive if while on any kind of oral you use a good and proper dose liver support you will be good and the liver damage will be none if you stay in drug standard dose and not exceed a 6-8 weeks use (this time will depened on what oral) I know and read some ppl with high liver enzymes and get back to normal with a good protocol of liver support sups like liv52 , milk thistle etc. Just don`t over do it or over dose and always use proper support supps.


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## DF (Jul 9, 2012)

The other thing you should consider as well is any other meds you maybe taking.  Pain killers in particular script or OTC.  Some of that shit is very liver toxic.  Combine dbol & Tylenol not a good idea.


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## Get Some (Jul 9, 2012)

BigHerm said:


> Well var goes through the liver once instead of twice like Dbol which makes var not liver toxic.



I think you are thinking of primobolan acetate tabs, which are 1-methylated. Anavar is 17-AA so it will go through the liver twice, otherwise, you'd have to dose 150mg ED to feel something. I've used the primo acetate tabs before and you need a minimum of 150mg ED to see results due to the poor bioavailability. 

That being said, Var is one of the less liver toxic steroids out there. AIDs patients use high doses of anadrol and anavar ED for 9+ months straight or longer and most experience "elevated liver enzyme values." This does not mean their liver is permanently damaged, but does mean it's on the way. The main culprit in liver damage would be the combination of these orals and alcohol.

Having said that, I think we should still strive to limit the amount of orals we use and caution newcomers properly. The thing that has gotten out of hand these days IMO is the dosing of orals. This is due to a number of things, with underdosed/bunk product being the key. Most guys don't need more than 30mg of dbol or 40mg of winstrol ED to get incredible results. But, guys will dose winny to 75mg or more and complain about joint pain or dose dbol more than 50mg ED and complain about back and calf pumps. Really what we need to do is help educate each other on what dosages to stick with and what brands are actually worth a damn. I can promise you that 30mg of dbol that actually contains 30mg of the active ingredient known as dianabol will be more than enough to make you grow like a weed.


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## LeanHerm (Jul 9, 2012)

Although Anavar is an oral steroid, and has been alpha-alkylated to survive oral ingestion and the first pass through the liver.


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## Shane1974 (Jul 9, 2012)

Get Some said:


> I think you are thinking of primobolan acetate tabs, which are 1-methylated. Anavar is 17-AA so it will go through the liver twice, otherwise, you'd have to dose 150mg ED to feel something. I've used the primo acetate tabs before and you need a minimum of 150mg ED to see results due to the poor bioavailability.
> 
> That being said, Var is one of the less liver toxic steroids out there. AIDs patients use high doses of anadrol and anavar ED for 9+ months straight or longer and most experience "elevated liver enzyme values." This does not mean their liver is permanently damaged, but does mean it's on the way. The main culprit in liver damage would be the combination of these orals and alcohol.
> 
> Having said that, I think we should still strive to limit the amount of orals we use and caution newcomers properly. The thing that has gotten out of hand these days IMO is the dosing of orals. This is due to a number of things, with underdosed/bunk product being the key. Most guys don't need more than 30mg of dbol or 40mg of winstrol ED to get incredible results. But, guys will dose winny to 75mg or more and complain about joint pain or dose dbol more than 50mg ED and complain about back and calf pumps. Really what we need to do is help educate each other on what dosages to stick with and *what brands are actually worth a damn*. I can promise you that 30mg of dbol that actually contains 30mg of the active ingredient known as dianabol will be more than enough to make you grow like a weed.



This is key. I know, I am a new guy.


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## AndroSport (Jul 9, 2012)

Shane1974 said:


> This is key. I know, I am a new guy.



Shane there's plenty of general info on the open threads here and other boards to do research on what BRANDS are good/legit and properly dosed. Just do some browsing and theres tons of info to research. Getting sources is a diff story but dong the research first and taking your time could save you tons of hassle & bodily strain by making sure you are doing it right...


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## Shane1974 (Jul 9, 2012)

AndroSport said:


> Shane there's plenty of general info on the open threads here and other boards to do research on what BRANDS are good/legit and properly dosed. Just do some browsing and theres tons of info to research. Getting sources is a diff story but dong the research first and taking your time could save you tons of hassle & bodily strain by making sure you are doing it right...



I'm good on sources and brands, Andro. I was just saying for every new guy behind me.


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## AndroSport (Jul 9, 2012)

Shane1974 said:


> I'm good on sources and brands, Andro. I was just saying for every new guy behind me.



OK... Well - That's why we're all here to make sure new people aren't doing something that could hurt them or get them scammed. One post away from your living room!


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## Shane1974 (Jul 9, 2012)

AndroSport said:


> OK... Well - That's why we're all here to make sure new people aren't doing something that could hurt them or get them scammed. One post away from your living room!



Thanks Bro! For the most part, I am very happy with SI. It was initially presented to me as a site that was upfront and honest. None of that scammer, dishonest, dramatic bullshit. A place where you could come, meet some bros and get some honest answers about gear, sources, and the like. And for the most part, I have found that to be true.


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## Lulu66 (Jul 9, 2012)

The problem with Dbol and and its bad rep for liver toxicity is due to the main users of dbol. Not to put down young people, but this compound is mainly used by your 17-22 year old crowd. And for the most part they just want to take this pill and get big and strong while while still maintaining an u healthy livestyle (alcohol, rec drugs etc.). How do i know this? I was one of them. At 17 i had a buddy at the gym that told me: here take these(anabolex) on workout days. So i did. I took them shits like flinstones religiously for  the most part of 2 years. I got awesome results from it. 

Would i do it again? Fuck no. I got lucky the shit didnt kill my dumb ass.


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## Shane1974 (Jul 9, 2012)

Lulu66 said:


> The problem with Dbol and and its bad rep for liver toxicity is due to the main users of dbol. Not to put down young people, but this compound is mainly used by your 17-22 year old crowd. And for the most part they just want to take this pill and get big and strong while while still maintaining an u healthy livestyle (alcohol, rec drugs etc.). *How do i know this? I was one of them*. At 17 i had a buddy at the gym that told me: here take these(anabolex) on workout days. So i did. I took them shits like flinstones religiously for  the most part of 2 years. I got awesome results from it.
> 
> Would i do it again? Fuck no. I got lucky the shit didnt kill my dumb ass.



Classic. I think I have learned more in life about what doesn't work because I tried it and it didn't. However-this is my first AAS cycle and I am going to try and learn from others.


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## Get Some (Jul 10, 2012)

BigHerm said:


> Although Anavar is an oral steroid, and has been alpha-alkylated to survive oral ingestion and the first pass through the liver.



Dbol, drol, winny, etc are all AA to survive the first pass through the liver, hence the reason they make it to the second pass  1-methyls are mostly broken down during the first pass and injectable dbol, var, winny, drol skip the first pass altogether becoming more bioavailable. They are still 17AA but since they are not ingested they skip the first step and just pass through the liver. Most people don't even realize that everything you inject ALSO passes through your liver once. Although, injectables are not nearly as harmful as compounds that are orally bioavailable. Oral bioavailability was created to enhance one's ability to train on short notice or for bursts of strength and power. Back when dbol and anavar were created they were loved because sanctioning bodies were only aware of athletes using injectable long estered testosterone. There was no test to check for metabolites of orally bioavailable compounds.... and they weren't nearly as strict with the testing as they are now


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## AndroSport (Jul 10, 2012)

Shane1974 said:


> Thanks Bro! For the most part, I am very happy with SI. It was initially presented to me as a site that was upfront and honest. None of that scammer, dishonest, dramatic bullshit. A place where you could come, meet some bros and get some honest answers about gear, sources, and the like. And for the most part, I have found that to be true.



Glad your happy here - good to have ya bro! For the most part you are right there and that is one of the reasons this place was created. We are ALL happy to pass along certain info about gear & sources in the sense that we want everyone who considers AAS to be doing it safely and in regards to sources we want to make sure nobody is going to mess with sources that we know to be bunk/fake/dirty/thieves/play dirty etc. Most of us here have been scammed or jipped at one time or another and we don't want anyone else to have to go through that. I know you say you already have sources, which is good, because you probably understand that being involved in this sort of thing is illegal and all of the above listed bad things are part of the game when doing illegal things... passing along source information to someone you don't know can jeopardize the safety of you, them and the entirety of the community here. So we are just very careful here as a whole and watch each other...

I know you say you are new to this. Have you started your first cycle yet or just planning it out? If so, what is it and what are your goals? Sorry if I am missing more info from another thread you posted - just curious. (not trying to jack this thread either so re-direct me to it if I have missed this info)


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## Shane1974 (Jul 10, 2012)

AndroSport said:


> Glad your happy here - good to have ya bro! For the most part you are right there and that is one of the reasons this place was created. We are ALL happy to pass along certain info about gear & sources in the sense that we want everyone who considers AAS to be doing it safely and in regards to sources we want to make sure nobody is going to mess with sources that we know to be bunk/fake/dirty/thieves/play dirty etc. Most of us here have been scammed or jipped at one time or another and we don't want anyone else to have to go through that. I know you say you already have sources, which is good, because you probably understand that being involved in this sort of thing is illegal and all of the above listed bad things are part of the game when doing illegal things... passing along source information to someone you don't know can jeopardize the safety of you, them and the entirety of the community here. So we are just very careful here as a whole and watch each other...
> 
> I know you say you are new to this. Have you started your first cycle yet or just planning it out? If so, what is it and what are your goals? Sorry if I am missing more info from another thread you posted - just curious. (not trying to jack this thread either so re-direct me to it if I have missed this info)



Week 1-4 Dbol 25 mgs ED
Week 1-12 Test Cyp 500 mg EW

Haven't started yet-in ph pct.


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