# Ru 58841 / cb 03 01



## Luscious Lei (Jun 12, 2014)

When it comes to hair protection in general and during AAS use in particular, the male athlete is left with very few options:

_Note: I summarize quite a bit since the subject of this thread are RU 58841 and CB 03 01, androgenic alopecia is a complex subject so I won’t elaborate too much about it here but let me know if you’re interested in some more detailed information._

*Finasteride / Dutasteride*

Although these compounds are the most effective at reducing DHT levels and therefore preserving hair, they often generate more problems than they solve. 
Often describe as “DHT killers”, which a false statement, Fina / Duta lower DHT by blocking the conversion of testosterone to DHT. It means that they are effective with testosterone only, and are useless against existing or exogenous DHT, hence their total lack of efficiency for any other compound than test. Also, preventing the 5-alpha reductase actually turn nandrolone into an androgenic compound (it makes nand 150% more androgenic, however it can be argued that even at this level nand is still not very androgenic since the compound is not very androgenic to begin with), but the main culprit with Fina/Duta is that they will prevent test conversion everywhere in your body, being are oral compounds. DHT is bad for your hair but excellent for anabolism and libido, and cutting down your DHT levels will not only hinder the gains but is also very likely to generate sexual sides: watery semen, libido loss, ED, decreased orgasm intensity, etc…the list is quite long. Gyno is also a common side effect since you’re basically lowering one of the most androgenic hormones in your body, therefore negatively impacting the androgen / oestrogen balance. The drugs are often described as “slowly turning you into a woman” for the above mentioned reasons.


Because DHT is bad for your hair only, you want to reduce / suppress / block it in your scalp only, which obviously leads you to topical solutions.

 Unfortunately when it comes to topical, the options are quite limited:

*Minoxidil*

Minoxidil doesn’t interact at all with DHT, it is neither a DHT killer nor a DHT blocker. It is a growth stimulator and is therefore good for your hair but won’t do anything to protect the hair follicles from DHT binding. It will def makes your hairline some good over the long run but don’t expect it to protect your hair from the test/tren/mast/winny cycle you’re planning.

*Ketoconazole (Nizoral shampoo)*

Ketoconazole does indeed have anti-androgenic properties by inhibiting the activity of some enzymes involved in the conversion of cholesterol to testosterone, but also by blocking the DHT synthesis and acting as androgen receptor antagonist. Its anti-fungal properties also help to reduce follicular inflammation. It is def a staple of the “hair loss stack”, however the shampoo form limit its efficacy.

*Spironolactone*

Although Spiro is a weak anti-androgen, it is fairly efficient at reducing the androgen activity, acting as competitive antagonist of the receptors but also as an inhibitor of androgen production. It is actually quite efficient at this and is even used for transgender HRTs. The problem with Spiro is that it doesn’t travel well through the skin, making its topical use problematic, some even argue that it simply can’t pass the transdermal barrier at all, making it useless. It is debatable but all in all it is far to be a miracle drug.

*Azelaic acid*

The efficiency of azelaic acid for hairloss has never been clinically proven, and its “DHT killing” properties have been examined in one study only. However, practically, many users swear by it as an additional tool to fight hair loss. It is primarily used as an anti-acne treatment, making its use for hair loss annoying since it is sold in cream form.


So until recently, the standard topical “hair loss stack” was made of Minoxidil + Nizoral + Azelaic acid, with the eventual addition of Spiro. But this era might come to an end with the development of two very interesting compounds: RU 58841 and CB 03 01


*RU 58841*

Originally studied by the French pharmaceutical company Roussel-Uclaf, hence the “RU”, it has been primarily studied for the treatment of MPB and has a very impressive potential: it is one of the most potent and effective anti-androgen known at the moment, and display a very high affinity and selectivity to the androgen receptors. It basically act like Spiro, it is not a “DHT killer” but binds much more aggressively than spiro to androgen receptors, preventing DHT binding. It has actually been sold for a short period of time in Japan and Europe, before being dropped for the even more promising CB 03 01.
Because it blocks both type of DHT receptors, it should be efficient against any type of AAS. The drawback of the compound actually comes from its efficacy: it readily passes the transdermal barrier and is quite hardy, which mean that the RU that don’t bind to the receptors in the scalp will continue their journey and bind to other receptors. It can therefore give typical anti-androgen sides, although the users reporting these sides admit that they are sensitive to anti-androgen and that the sides are much less than what they experience with fina / duta. 
Another issue with RU is its relatively short shelf life. It is sensible to oxygen and temperature and doesn’t stay potent very long once in solution. For this reason, the raw should be kept in a sealed bag in a freezer and batches of 5 to 10 applications should be prepared one at a time. 
Finally, it is a bit pricey. But beyond the above mentioned issues, it is the most effective and potent anti-androgen money can buy at the moment and beat flat any other topical compound.

*CB 03 01*

Well, with all these properties, why isn’t RU 58841 already available at your local pharmacy? Because CB 03 01 is even more promising.

It displays the same aggressive and selective anti-androgen properties than RU 58841, with a few extra ones that make it even better:

-	It is much more stable than RU, drastically extending its shelf life
-	It is cheaper
-	It rapidly degrades into a neutral compound once it enters the body. It means that the CB that doesn’t bind to your hair follicles will lose its anti-androgen properties before it reaches other organs. It makes it virtually side-effects free


CB is under development for a while now, by Cosmo, and has finished the final clinical studies case for the 1% concentration that will be prescribed as an anti-acne cream. It should be available early next year. The 5% concentration, developed for hair loss (1% is not strong enough for this purpose), is in Phase 2. Needless to say, it is eagerly awaited by the thousands of men suffering from MPB but also by the gear users who wish to see their hairline surviving their next cycle.

Just like RU, CB can be bought in raw powder form from various websites, however it is useless for the average Joe. The problem with CB is the carrier, RU is readily solvable in alcohol but it’s a whole different story with CB, actually a solid part of the research work was carrier-related. To cut it short, even if you get CB you shouldn’t be able to make a solution that will effectively make it through your scalp, so in my book it is better to wait for the final product release. 

Plenty of information about the compounds, and especially about RU since it is around for a longer time than CB, are available on the web, if you’re interested in them let me know and I’ll point you in the right direction.


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## Joliver (Jun 12, 2014)

That RU-486 was a killer drug too...


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## Luscious Lei (Jun 12, 2014)

NbleSavage said:


> Great post. Sticky material, IMO.



Thanks NS, I appreciate it.
However, should UG have a sticky on this topic it should be more extensive than this post IMHO, I just introduced a few compounds.
I wasn't sure about this since UGBB is more PL than BB oriented and PLer are less self-conscious than BBers, but if you guys think it's relevant I'm happy to put together a complete guide to AAS & hairloss.



> That RU-486 was a killer drug too...



I knew someone would make it...


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## NbleSavage (Jun 12, 2014)

IMO, there has been enough interest on this topic to warrant a sticky. Several threads asking for suggestions & making sporadic suggestions, but one thread to rule them all on the issue would seem to have strong value. 

Plus not all PLs are oblivious to their coiffure - look at Steelers for example. His set-up when benching includes 2 dollops of 'Aussie No-Frizz' so when they move in for a tight shot of his straining face he'll still be fabulous


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## TheLupinator (Jun 12, 2014)

Finasteride works and is not likely to cause sexual sides as stated. Somewhere CashOut posted about finasteride, the research, and his experience... I don't think it hindered his gains either


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## Luscious Lei (Jun 12, 2014)

TheLupinator said:


> Finasteride works and is not likely to cause sexual sides as stated. Somewhere CashOut posted about finasteride, the research, and his experience... I don't think it hindered his gains either



Fina/Duta DO work, I clearly stated that they are the most effective compound. However, saying that sexual sides are not likely to happen is debatable. Watery semen for example is a very common side. 
The lowest dose of Fina reduce the DHT levels by 60 to 70%, that's huge and I don't think that lowering such an important hormone to this extent can be totally free of negative effect.


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## TheLupinator (Jun 12, 2014)

Petty sure the studies had the placebo group developing more sexual sides than the ones taking finasteride - don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure.

Edit: all I could find was that 3% of males with no history of sexual sides reported them on finasteride from the study

I think finasteride w/ minoxidil is the best option right now.. But from what you've posted CB certainly appears to be a much better option, hopefully in the near future


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## Luscious Lei (Jun 12, 2014)

Here's the side effects listed on Finastreride 5mg leaflet:

Frequent: impotence, loss/decrease of libido, reduction of semen volume
Uncommon: breast puffiness
Rare: palpitations, liver malfunction, testicular pain
Very rare: lactation

It is to be taken with a grain of slat since "frequent" means for more than 1 person out of 100, but these are still clearly mentioned and admited by Merck.

I've read the studies, I'm not bashing the compound. The problem with Fina/Duta is that people tend to see it all good (side effects are in your head, etc...) or all bad (take a pill and you'll lose your dick the next morning), reality is in between. A good report on the side effects nature and frenquency can be read here: 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/

IMO the main culprit with fina/duta is their action on test conversion only.


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## TheLupinator (Jun 12, 2014)

There is also a difference between a 5mg daily dose (proscar) for prostate enlargement and a 1mg dose (propecia) for mpb

Also on paper duta is a lot more likely to hinder gains... I wouldn't try it

And I do agree, nothing is side effect free. I just think finasteride is a good choice for anyone with hair issues. Worth a shot in my book


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## Luscious Lei (Jun 12, 2014)

TheLupinator said:


> There is also a difference between a 5mg daily dose (proscar) for prostate enlargement and a 1mg dose (propecia) for mpb



Absolutely, especially since even 0.5mg reduce DHT levels by 50%, when it comes to them the difference in reduction between 0.25mg and 1mg is really small.

The reason why I would be more cautious with Duta than Fina is the much longer half-life, side-effects wise no study have shown that it is harsher than Fina, but should you experience them the compound will take weeks to leave your body.


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## carlo (Jun 14, 2016)

Great overview but we would need some concentrations to use them as well.

Natural (no testo or anything).
Finasteride: 1mg per day (prevents hair on the scalp only, forehead would still loose it's hairs)
Dutasteride: 1,5mg per week like Monday, Wednesday, Friday (defeats hair loss on scalp and forehead)

TESTOSTERONE(ew) - Dutasteride per day(mg)
<150mg - 0,5mg
<300mg - 1,0mg
<450mg - 1,5mg
<600mg - 2,0mg
<750mg - 2,5mg
750+mg - 3,0mg


I as a natural take Finasteride and Dutasteride:
Monday - 0,5mg Dut
Tuesday - 1mg Fin
Wednesday - nothing
Thursday - 0,5mg Dut
Friday - 1mg Fin
Saturday - nothing
Sunday - nothing


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