# Natural Test Production on TRT



## Skullcrusher (May 1, 2022)

I do not know the answer to this question so I will post it here.

If you are on TRT is it good to still try to increase your natural test production?


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## Btcowboy (May 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I do not know the answer to this question so I will post it here.
> 
> If you are on TRT is it good to still try to increase your natural test production?


I dont think it works that way. If you are taking exogenous test you shut your production down. To me it would be pointless to take anything to increase your own production. 


What were your thoughts on how you would do this? 


I honestly dont have the legit answer so curious myself, but dont see it happening


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## MrRippedZilla (May 1, 2022)

No. The natural system is completely suppressed once you're totally reliant on an external source. Any attempt to bump it up will be nothing more than a waste of time & money.


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## Skullcrusher (May 1, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> What were your thoughts on how you would do this?


Before I started TRT I tested out all kinds of natural supps, only about 5 made a difference.

I just meant in general though.

Lifting weights is supposed to increase natural test production.

Certain foods like fatty fish, eggs, avocadoes, etc.


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## CJ (May 1, 2022)

But your system is shut down. 

Here's my stupid analogy. Think of it like a kitchen sink. No matter how much you try to open the faucet, no water will come out if the pipe valves are shut off.


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## Skullcrusher (May 1, 2022)

CJ said:


> But your system is shut down.
> 
> Here's my stupid analogy. Think of it like a kitchen sink. No matter how much you try to open the faucet, no water will come out if the pipe valves are shut off.


I know you guys are probably right but does it go to absolute zero...for sure?

Found this info on TRT clinic website...








						6 Ways You Can Support Your TRT And Boost Testosterone Naturally  | Limitless Male
					

Testosterone is a hormone that’s responsible for many things in the body, including muscle mass, hair growth, and sex drive. When testosterone levels are low,




					www.limitlessmale.com


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## notsoswoleCPA (May 1, 2022)

Every once and a while, I tested higher when HCG was part of my TRT protocol and that the HRT doc theorized that HCG was causing my whopping natural production of 200 ng/dL of testosterone to kick in.  Since I dropped HCG, I can still vary by a couple hundred ng/dL of testosterone on labs.


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## Btcowboy (May 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Before I started TRT I tested out all kinds of natural supps, only about 5 made a difference.
> 
> I just meant in general though.
> 
> ...


I get your train of thought, but any supps I tried previously were bunk, and if you are shut down I dont think there is anything will turn it on while using exogenous test. @CJ  Had a great analogy.

I would be saying 100% no unless someone has some study showing you can


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## Be_A_Hero (May 9, 2022)

exogenous test is better anyway fuck the natty life ✊🏿


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## MPM (May 9, 2022)

Here's my experience.   Yes you can increase natural production on TRT and people do it all the time by using HCG.  My test levels consistently come back elevated by 200ng/dl average simply by adding 500mg of Hcg weekly to my TRT dose.  That being said, it isn't ideal IMO because my body simply increases the rate of estradiol conversion and my prolactin/progesterone increases greatly as well.  I require much higher amounts of anti-estrogens which destroy my blood markers to maintain a marginally higher test level BUT my free testosterone stays the same.  The point is while using exogenous test your natural production is shut down but there are methods that can stimulate it simultaneously if the pros outweigh the cons in your circumstances.


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## Test_subject (May 9, 2022)

5000 x 0 = 0

Without figuring out how to shut off the negative feedback loop, you’re not going to have any appreciable natural production on TRT. 

If you figure out how to do that, congrats because you just made PCT irrelevant.


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## Clyde (May 9, 2022)

I'd suggest read up and familiarize yourself with the HTPA.









						Hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




HCG provides LH, stimulating the testicles to produce T directly, bypassing your shutdown system.
HMG and clomid are can also be used by providing missing feedback hormones.

I'd think HCG use during cycle would be more about preventing testicular atrophy than providing extra T. This may make it easier to "jump start" your HPTA after a cycle, if you are cycling.

Probably pretty useless if your on TRT or blast and cruising.

There's also people claiming receptor down regulation after prolonged HCG usage, but others say no.


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## Skullcrusher (May 9, 2022)

So HCG while on TRT is ONLY to keep nuts from shrinking up?

It seems contradicting if your natural test production is zero or close to zero.


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## Clyde (May 9, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> So HCG while on TRT is ONLY to keep nuts from shrinking up?


Well that's the theory at least. It would simulate your testis to produce T directly, keeping them working rather than shutting off and shrinking. 

You would also possibly get a surge of endogenous (natural production) T, adding to your exogenous (injected T) amount.


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## Skullcrusher (May 9, 2022)

Clyde said:


> Well that's the theory at least. It would simulate your testis to produce T directly, keeping them working rather than shutting off and shrinking.
> 
> You would also possibly get a surge of endogenous (natural production) T, adding to your exogenous (injected T) amount.


Well that's kind of what I am getting at in this thread.

If it is possible to support our TRT with endogenous test, then why not do it?

Even if the amount is minimal, as long as whatever it is doesn't cost too much I guess.


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## Test_subject (May 9, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Well that's kind of what I am getting at in this thread.
> 
> If it is possible to support our TRT with endogenous test, then why not do it?
> 
> Even if the amount is minimal, as long as whatever it is doesn't cost too much I guess.


Is it really worth it to buy and pin HCG just to be able to use 20mg less test a week?

YMMV but to me it’s not worth it.


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## Clyde (May 9, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> If it is possible to support our TRT with endogenous test, then why not do it?


If you go that route, I'd keep in mind the LH receptor down regulation deal. I'd also try to minimize the amounts and not too often. Once a week?

If it stops working, and the down regulation thing happens, that would be an other problem if trying to "jump start" your HPTA.

I think for TRT, the added test levels would not be worth it. Now if cycling, yes it would have a payoff with possibly not trying to jump start atrophied testicles.


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## Skullcrusher (May 9, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Is it really worth it to buy and pin HCG just to be able to use 20mg less test a week?
> 
> YMMV but to me it’s not worth it.


So if I quit HCG completely and my nuts shrivel up into raisins, does that mean I can't squirt a gallon of jizz all over some lucky lady's face?


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## Clyde (May 9, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> So if I quit HCG completely and my nuts shrivel up into raisins, does that mean I can't squirt a gallon of jizz all over some lucky lady's face?


My nuts have been shrunk, and still able to do a decent face shot.

Now I always cycled though. I can't say how that would work after prolonged shutdown.

I'd think it would only effect sperm production though, a tiny percentage of a load.


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## Skullcrusher (May 9, 2022)

Clyde said:


> My nuts have been shrunk, and still able to do a decent face shot.
> 
> Now I always cycled though. I can't say how that would work after prolonged shutdown.
> 
> I'd think it would only effect sperm production, a tiny percentage of a load.


Probably a question I should have asked BEFORE quitting HCG!


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## GreatGunz (May 9, 2022)

I take hcg every week with my trt……


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## Clyde (May 9, 2022)

GreatGunz said:


> I take hcg every week with my trt……


Interesting!

You can provide some good good feedback with regard to the possibility of the testicles down regulating the receptors to HCG.

I believe some TRT clinics have their patients on a regular dose HCG as well as T.

How long you been on TRT?
What dosage of HCG?
Have you noticed any testicular shrinkage?
Do your blood tests indicate a continued rise in total T after an HCG administration?


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## GreatGunz (May 12, 2022)

*Total T was 680 now it’s 1200
Free T was 10 now it’s 28*

Test dose .9 or 180 mgs 1x per week
Hcg 15 ius 2x per week
*No shrinkage 
No sexual sides
All good in my view 

I feel great ,motivated,leaned up some.
Presently at 196 lbs
From 228 ibs July last with slo steady decline and a diet clean up.

Now the build back starts….*


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## Bennybuttons09 (May 14, 2022)

I cum like a super soaker and always have- nothing has changed on gear except my libido is HIGHER than it was when I was 19, not back to it but higher. If I don't pull down some strange once a week minimum I start clawing at the walls. Two different threesome arrangements that happen like clockwork every week and I paint faces at both 4 times out of 5. 
Some weirdo told me they didn't believe anyone came more than 5 ml so I blew into a shot glass and told him to measure with an oral syringe which he did, fucking guy...but it was 27 mL, just shy of an ounce. Granted I knew it would be huge because I had not cum that week, sometimes I practice retention and fuck without coming, great mental discipline. But yea, I thank the trt, hcg, pine pollen in my shakes as well as bee propolis and deer antler velvet, bull testicle powder (dead ass, try it), coconut water, and constant fucking, just saying. Keep your head in the game, that's most important. I wouldn't run gear if it affected my sexual performance, I mean it's a big part of why I am drawn to it, to look good and slaughter cooch. Women can smell high T levels, I swear. 10x easier to get laid when on.


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## LilxNicky (Sep 27, 2022)

MPM said:


> Here's my experience.   Yes you can increase natural production on TRT and people do it all the time by using HCG.  My test levels consistently come back elevated by 200ng/dl average simply by adding 500mg of Hcg weekly to my TRT dose.  That being said, it isn't ideal IMO because my body simply increases the rate of estradiol conversion and my prolactin/progesterone increases greatly as well.  I require much higher amounts of anti-estrogens which destroy my blood markers to maintain a marginally higher test level BUT my free testosterone stays the same.  The point is while using exogenous test your natural production is shut down but there are methods that can stimulate it simultaneously if the pros outweigh the cons in your circumstances.


What about clomid?


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## Trendkill (Sep 27, 2022)

Bennybuttons09 said:


> I cum like a super soaker and always have- nothing has changed on gear except my libido is HIGHER than it was when I was 19, not back to it but higher. If I don't pull down some strange once a week minimum I start clawing at the walls. Two different threesome arrangements that happen like clockwork every week and I paint faces at both 4 times out of 5.
> Some weirdo told me they didn't believe anyone came more than 5 ml so I blew into a shot glass and told him to measure with an oral syringe which he did, fucking guy...but it was 27 mL, just shy of an ounce. Granted I knew it would be huge because I had not cum that week, sometimes I practice retention and fuck without coming, great mental discipline. But yea, I thank the trt, hcg, pine pollen in my shakes as well as bee propolis and deer antler velvet, bull testicle powder (dead ass, try it), coconut water, and constant fucking, just saying. Keep your head in the game, that's most important. I wouldn't run gear if it affected my sexual performance, I mean it's a big part of why I am drawn to it, to look good and slaughter cooch. Women can smell high T levels, I swear. 10x easier to get laid when on.


You need to find a new home.  Peddle your bullshit somewhere else dude.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Sep 27, 2022)

Awesome thread @Skullcrusher!!!!! You’re clearly the wisest among us! 🤣


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## MPM (Sep 27, 2022)

LilxNicky said:


> What about clomid?


I wouldn't think it'd provide the same benefit as HCG in that I believe it works on different pathways but I am no expert.   I still wouldn't bother with clomid while on cycle.  It personally makes me feel like garbage and makes me really depressed.  I've heard of some doctors prescribing it alongside TRT but most respected in the field do not....then again most doctors have people injecting their TRT every other week with cypionate so maybe their opinions are moot?


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## IronSoul (Sep 27, 2022)

If you’re taking exogenous testosterone don’t even worry about your natty levels unless you plan on coming off. No reason to. I do like to run HCG though to keep the boys plump and to keep my loads blowing 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Sep 27, 2022)

I know this is older but I still have a question.

How the fuck did @Skullcrusher  make elite


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## Valdosta (Sep 27, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> I know this is older but I still have a question.
> 
> How the fuck did @Skullcrusher  make elite


I think the colors are random 
😔


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Sep 27, 2022)

Valdosta said:


> I think the colors are random
> 😔


No, yours makes sense


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## Yano (Sep 27, 2022)

Takes off the goofy old man mask for a minute and puts on my glasses. 

@Skullcrusher  ok , so the fancy schmancy term for shrunk junk is , Hypogonadism. 

This article is pretty wordy but it explains a bit about theories behind what causes AOH (adult onset hypogonadism )in "normal" males - normal being non meatheads. In our case we know what's causing it , exogeneous test we introduce one way or another.

This explains a bit on SHBG , its relation to total test levels and  some of the findings that lead some to believe there is a negative feedback loop at play that effects either directly or modulates testosterone or estradiol enter the cells at the pituitary and hypothalamus level and using that to regulate the synthesis of gonadotropin and its secretion.









						SHBG and total testosterone levels in men with adult onset hypogonadism: what are we overlooking? - Clinical Diabetes and Endocrinology
					

Background Adult onset male hypogonadism (AOH) is a common clinical condition whose diagnosis and management are controversial, and is often characterized by a low level of SHBG, but our understanding of why testosterone levels are low when SHBG is low is incomplete. Methods This retrospective...




					clindiabetesendo.biomedcentral.com
				












						The Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone Pulse Generator - PubMed
					

The pulsatile release of GnRH and LH secretion is essential for fertility in all mammals. Pulses of LH occur approximately every hour in follicular-phase females and every 2 to 3 hours in luteal-phase females and males. Many studies over the last 50 years have sought to identify the nature and...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




SHBG is a homodimeric glycoprotein right ?  both its monomers can bind to sex hormones and its believed to either directly or through free testosterone and/or estradiol levels, regulates GnRH-LH.

So what your talking about would be some new compound that in essence would be a synthetic form of SHBG that could restart  the GnRH pulse generator (  gonadotropin releasing pulse generator )  turning back on essentially the pulsatile release of GnRH and LH regardless of the introduction of exogenous test in any meathead , and it would surely restart the pulses in any non-meathead. 

First person to figure out how  to do that dude is going to be a fucking billionaire , it would cure almost all issues with AOH and a good deal of erectile dysfunction. You are talking industry revolutionizing shit. 

It would also put soooo many people out of business like curing cancer , I don't think any one would speak about it or market it for decades if even then. No money in curing shit. 

*takes off the glasses and puts the goofy old man mask back on 

Time for coffee and a bong hit WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


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## buck (Sep 28, 2022)

I have found many articles over the years showing the taking HCG could have positive benefits. Probably why i have used it consistently for over 15 years. I can't see a downside to taking it so i will continue on with it. (It seems to do much more then make T or make for bigger balls.









						Human chorionic gonadotropin induces neuronal differentiation of PC12 cells through activation of stably expressed lutropin/choriogonadotropin receptor - PubMed
					

Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and LH play an important role in reproductive physiology. Both hCG and LH bind to the same LH/choriogonadotropin receptor (LH/CG-R). Recent reports documented the temporal and spatial expression of LH/CG-R in the developing and mature mammalian brain...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				












						Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Protects Vascular Endothelial Cells from Oxidative Stress by Apoptosis Inhibition, Cell Survival Signalling Activation and Mitochondrial Function Protection
					

Background/Aim: Previous reports have made it hypothetically possible that human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) could protect against the onset of pregnancy-related pathological conditions by acting as an antioxidant. In the present study we planned to examine the effects of hCG against oxidative...




					www.karger.com


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## LilxNicky (Sep 28, 2022)

MPM said:


> I wouldn't think it'd provide the same benefit as HCG in that I believe it works on different pathways but I am no expert.   I still wouldn't bother with clomid while on cycle.  It personally makes me feel like garbage and makes me really depressed.  I've heard of some doctors prescribing it alongside TRT but most respected in the field do not....then again most doctors have people injecting their TRT every other week with cypionate so maybe their opinions are moot?


I asked about Hcg and was given clomid for Trt. Apparently Hcg is too much to ask for….


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## buck (Oct 1, 2022)

LilxNicky said:


> I asked about Hcg and was given clomid for Trt. Apparently Hcg is too much to ask for….


Considering what clomid can do to vision i always pass on that.


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## LilxNicky (Oct 1, 2022)

@buck 3 times a week @ 25mg. 6 weeks out with no vision issues. I am a tattooer by trade so eyesight is pretty important. Would be nice to find some Hcg…


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## Iwanttestdecatren (Oct 1, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I know you guys are probably right but does it go to absolute zero...for sure?
> 
> Found this info on TRT clinic website...
> 
> ...


Yes it shuts down completely. With an excess of testosterone the hypothalamus does not release gonadotropin releasing hormone to the pituitary, which in turn does not release FSH or LH to the testes which signal the production of endogenous testosterone. There may be TINY spurts of GnRH released, enough to MAYBE produce a few sperm cells, but it's going to be very, very, very low if any. 

Trying to increase test while on TRT through natural means would be like trying to fuel a fire underneath a waterfall.


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## Iwanttestdecatren (Oct 1, 2022)

MPM said:


> Here's my experience.   Yes you can increase natural production on TRT and people do it all the time by using HCG.  My test levels consistently come back elevated by 200ng/dl average simply by adding 500mg of Hcg weekly to my TRT dose.  That being said, it isn't ideal IMO because my body simply increases the rate of estradiol conversion and my prolactin/progesterone increases greatly as well.  I require much higher amounts of anti-estrogens which destroy my blood markers to maintain a marginally higher test level BUT my free testosterone stays the same.  The point is while using exogenous test your natural production is shut down but there are methods that can stimulate it simultaneously if the pros outweigh the cons in your circumstances.


But that being said, you're not increasing your test naturally with HCG. You're introducing another hormone into your body in order to activate the production of testosterone.


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## dmanuk (Oct 13, 2022)

notsoswoleCPA said:


> Since I dropped HCG


What made you drop it?


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## dmanuk (Oct 13, 2022)

buck said:


> I have found many articles over the years showing the taking HCG could have positive benefits. Probably why i have used it consistently for over 15 years. I can't see a downside to taking it so i will continue on with it. (It seems to do much more then make T or make for bigger balls.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The main downside to taking HCG is that it has the potential to noticeably increase your e2
But if you've been taking it for 15 years then it hasn't been an issue.


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## notsoswoleCPA (Oct 13, 2022)

dmanuk said:


> What made you drop it?


Uncontrollable estradiol issues that even Anastrozole couldn't help me with.  HCG spikes it out of control and it is a royal bitch to get it to come back down.  In other words, full testicles and Peter North loads were not worth the high estradiol side effects, namely fluid retention.


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## buck (Oct 13, 2022)

dmanuk said:


> The main downside to taking HCG is that it has the potential to noticeably increase your e2
> But if you've been taking it for 15 years then it hasn't been an issue.


Taking testosterone can increase ones E2 a well or having more body fat. Depends on how the individual handles things. The vast majority of those i have been in contact with on the TRT forums over the last 20 years really have no problems with it. Those that are on higher doses of T then just TRT levels could heave more issues.


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