# Clean Food



## PillarofBalance (Jan 29, 2015)

Please define this. What is "clean" food?

EDIT: To help the discussion along - give five examples of clean and unclean foods along with the definition.


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## DieYoungStrong (Jan 29, 2015)

Pizza, donuts and ice cream...


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## Tren4Life (Jan 29, 2015)

No white death. White sugar, white flour, white potatoes.

Pop tarts are full of white flour and whit sugar. Lol


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## Iron1 (Jan 29, 2015)

Food you scrub clean.

Can't be having no dirt in my taters.

Also cheeseburgers.


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## Paolos (Jan 29, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Please define this. What is "clean" food?



Minimal processing, minimal ingredients or as close as you can get from the ground or slaughter house. 

True clean food (organic or free range) is not always available or affordable.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 29, 2015)

Paolos  gets a gold star for first legit answer.

So is paleo  the only way to eat clean? Many people consider oats clean. Most don't consider organic as a requirement.

Are whole eggs clean or just the whites?


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## Joliver (Jan 29, 2015)

Can I have a gold star for cleaning my plate for 9,276 consecutive meals?  Before you say no, at least 6 of those meals were salads...with fried chicken on them.


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## jennerrator (Jan 29, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Paolos  gets a gold star for first legit answer.
> 
> So is paleo  the only way to eat clean? Many people consider oats clean. Most don't consider organic as a requirement.
> 
> Are whole eggs clean or just the whites?



oats are clean...so are whole eggs...in my book...clean means NOT PROCESSED or as less processed as possible


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## DF (Jan 29, 2015)

Eat the whole fukn egg!!! Dammit!  Thinking that the cholesterol from eggs is going to kill you is Fukn stoooopeeed!


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## Iron1 (Jan 29, 2015)

Funny how nobody will ever be able to reach a consensus on what "clean" means.

It's all protein carbs and fat.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 29, 2015)

Jenner said:


> oats are clean...so are whole eggs...in my book...clean means NOT PROCESSED or as less processed as possible



"In my book" is the key


How about everyone start listing off some foods they consider clean and not clean. Five of each.


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## Paolos (Jan 29, 2015)

Ok I'll take a poke at this one since I don't think you can give it a wrong answer.

Many think Paleo is the only true clean diet but I only agree to a point (how's that for doing the Michael Jackson).

Oats run the spectrum from what I consider clean to not so clean IMO... example steel cut oats= my expectation of clean minimally processed
quick oats= not so clean due to the processing

whole eggs= clean just how it came out of the chicken's backside / egg whites= clean if you separate yourself 
egg whites in carton= fairly clean due to some processing and additives   

I eat both in an effort to be more efficient... Prepping 16 meal a day is a lot 8 for me, 8 for Ms. Paolos (god would she hate that handle)

I think you have to be realistic


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 29, 2015)

This is an extremely amusing topic.

Its amazing how people think "clean" means unprocessed food, yet they consume dextrose and whey protein.
Others think it means high nutrient density or "healthy" foods, yet they avoid fruit (LOL) and cheese.

I wont even bother to define such dogma but this quote from Alan Aragon is worth thinking about:

*"In 1997, a general physician named Steven Bratman coined the term orthorexia nervosa, which he defines as, “an unhealthy obsession with eating healthy food.” 
It reminds me of the counterproductive dietary perfectionism I’ve seen among many athletes, trainers, and coaches. One of the fundamental pitfalls of dichotomizing foods as good or bad, or clean or dirty, is that it can form a destructive relationship with food. This isn’t just an empty claim; it’s been seen in research. Smith and colleagues found that flexible dieting was associated with the absence of overeating, lower bodyweight, and the absence of depression and anxiety. 
They also found that a strict all-or-nothing approach to dieting was associated with overeating and increased bodyweight. Similarly, Stewart and colleagues found that rigid dieting was associated with symptoms of an eating disorder, mood disturbances, and anxiety. Flexible dieting was not highly correlated with these qualities."*


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## Iron1 (Jan 29, 2015)

IIFYM

10char


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 29, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> This is an extremely amusing topic.
> 
> Its amazing how people think "clean" means unprocessed food, yet they consume dextrose and whey protein.
> Others think it means high nutrient density or "healthy" foods, yet they avoid fruit (LOL) and cheese.
> ...



I hinted at my views on this in my reply to Jenner above... Everyone or every group has their own opinion.

Vegans think that all animal foods are not clean

Low carb people think that carbs are unclean

Your average Registered Dietician thinks that sat fats, red meat and eggs are unclean

It's entirely relative... So on a board of people such as this, nobody is going to give the same exact definition of what "clean" food is. Which only demonstrates how arbitrary it is.

What we know isn't arbitrary is energy balance.


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## snake (Jan 29, 2015)

Is this a Jewish thing?

Here's my idea of clean and it parallels Paolos answer. 

Anything that dies by my own hands. If it comes off the Snake property; cage, free range or out of the garden it's "Clean" to me.

Ow, I'm not above an Arby's Beef-N-Cheddar with curly fries though.


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## Iron1 (Jan 29, 2015)

I believe this "clean" vs "dirty" foods argument has two parts.
What's "clean" within the context of body weight management and what's "clean" within the context of your training goals.

For body weight management, clean or dirty doesn't really matter. Energy balance does.

Now, the flip side of that is whether or not the foods you're eating support your goals.
i.e. eating cotton candy and fried cheese to meet your calories won't do you any favors if you're training to become a high endurance crossfit athlete. 

So, I suppose I could see some valid argument for why one would want to eat certain foods over others.


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## Seeker (Jan 29, 2015)

Clean is just a term coined by people used to identify eating healthy foods. No junk, no fast food.


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## jennerrator (Jan 29, 2015)

Paolos said:


> Ok I'll take a poke at this one since I don't think you can give it a wrong answer.
> 
> Many think Paleo is the only true clean diet but I only agree to a point (how's that for doing the Michael Jackson).
> 
> ...



Exactly...everybody has what works for them and honestly that's all that counts as otherwise it's just a bunch of arguing...because in the end regardless of what someone says...we all do what we want anyway 

and no offense to the folks that have degrees/studied nutrition etc....but tried tested and true are my motto


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## LeanHerm (Jan 29, 2015)

Deer meat is great!!!! To bad I don't get any lol lord knows I try. Wish snake would invite me to get one.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 29, 2015)

Seeker said:


> Clean is just a term coined by people used to identify eating healthy foods. No junk, no fast food.


What is healthy food?



Jenner said:


> Exactly...everybody has what works for them and honestly that's all that counts as otherwise it's just a bunch of arguing...because in the end regardless of what someone says...we all do what we want anyway
> 
> and no offense to the folks that have degrees/studied nutrition etc....but tried tested and true are my motto



It is tried tested and true


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## jennerrator (Jan 29, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> It is tried tested and true



My shit is


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 29, 2015)

Jenner said:


> My shit is


Wait so that was you in 2 girls 1 cup?

Mine is as well.

My story starts at 220 pounds. I was eating as much as I could without puking. Occasionally puked actually.

Everyday was the same. Egg whites and oats. Chicken broccoli and brown rice.

I hated this food so much and hit a point where I couldn't continue to grow. And at 220lbs  I look like a stick. Ask seeker. 

Then I started opening up my food choices. More red meats. Whole eggs. Pasta. Bread. Poptarts and cake. Milk. Tons of chocolate milk. Cheese and fruit. Whatever I wanted.

And the scale started moving. As did the weights I was moving.

In 2 years I went from 220lbs all the way to 287. Then cut down to 240 using the exact same foods just less quantity... Lean and strong.

Like I said Seek watched all this happen and supported me the whole way. It's how him and I became good friends.

It works. It can work for everyone who does it correctly. You can't say that about the chicken broccoli and brown rice diet.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 29, 2015)

I should add Jen I am not lecturing at you or anyone. The purpose of talking about this for me is letting people know that orthorexia  and gains don't always mix. 

If your way works for you then hell  why change it?

But for many it does not. They need to know there are other options available.


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## ECKSRATED (Jan 29, 2015)

Those 2 five guys burgers I devoured yesterday tasted pretty clean. The fries seemed a little processed tho.


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## Seeker (Jan 29, 2015)

Haha I knew where you wanted this post to lead to from the start. I remember a conversation we had a while back where you were  sitting at 270. And you wanted/needed to go down to like 240. You were dreading the options. We got into a discussion about portion control as a method to consider. Not just as a whole but an option to add. I still believe it works.


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## jennerrator (Jan 29, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Wait so that was you in 2 girls 1 cup?
> 
> ummm...no..........................





PillarofBalance said:


> I should add Jen I am not lecturing at you or anyone. The purpose of talking about this for me is letting people know that orthorexia  and gains don't always mix.
> 
> If your way works for you then hell  why change it?
> 
> But for many it does not. They need to know there are other options available.



yes, I get this...I don't give food/diet advice for this reason...I'm a simple person, I know how my body works and what works for my body extremely well. That being said, I do my own research and FOR me, keeping shit simple is the key....I don't have the patience to write down everything I eat...adding/subtracting macros etc...why? Because I don't have to, I am lucky enough to

1. Not care about food...the old saying "I eat to live"
2. Don't care for sweets or fast/fried food
3. Know what type of training allows me to stay lean 365 days
4. If I have a cheat meal/day...it doesn't affect me

I agree it's good to discuss many options as one size does not fit all but you're going to get a few sides that are adamant that their way is "The way" and it's just not the case.


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## Yaya (Jan 29, 2015)

All bullshit...

What's clean to u may be unclean to me..

And vice versa. ..


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## TriniJuice (Jan 29, 2015)

Well...back on the plantation "clean" food was anything we could take 4m massah's kitchen w/o getting caught;
Thats a'lil history lesson 4u guys.....

TJ approved


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## anewguy (Jan 29, 2015)

Jenner said:


> oats are clean...so are whole eggs...in my book...clean means NOT PROCESSED or as less processed as possible



This.  

2short


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## mickems (Jan 29, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> "In my book" is the key
> 
> 
> How about everyone start listing off some foods they consider clean and not clean. Five of each.



clean-grass fed beef, whole eggs, fresh organic broccoli, organic bananas, wild caught fish(not farm raised)

not clean- box cereal,hotdogs, microwave burritos, poptarts, mcdonalds(almost everything)


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## snake (Jan 29, 2015)

BigHerm said:


> Deer meat is great!!!! To bad I don't get any lol lord knows I try. Wish snake would invite me to get one.



You're asking less then most guys here. Normally I have to feed it, hunt it, kill it, butcher it, marinate it, smoke it and then deliver it. You're too easy Herm!


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## Beefcake (Jan 29, 2015)

What exactly is grass fed beef?  I've seen it on restuarant menu's.  Don't all cows eat grass?  Do they have any other choice, maybe give them aas to get bigger right like that bull on steriods picture.


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## stonetag (Jan 29, 2015)

Not exactly on the wild fish thing there is a certain amount of mercury that is accumulated in the fish, mercury never dissipates with in an organism, and this includes you. The amount of mercury in the fish depends on where in the world the fish is caught. Farm raised fish are excluded from this (the U.S.) because of strict aquaculture guidelines. Wild fish are also susceptible to water borne pathogens which may or may not be harmful to humans. I am a huge fisherman, so not to take away your appetite for wild fish, because for the most part a person is safe with wild fish. It takes so many ppm of the mercury to cause any harm. It is just a fact of life that most waterways including the oceans are polluted. Sad, but true.
Clean to me is a good garden with out Monsanto fuked with seeds, and fresh beef that I raise and know what they eat. Eggs and meat are a product of what they are fed and conditions that they are raised. Eat an egg someone has raised on scratch feed (corn and various grains) without a cage and an egg of the mass produced type, huge fuking diff. The same with beef and other animals. Definition of clean to me is the history of the food in front of me. Get me?


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## mickems (Jan 29, 2015)

stonetag said:


> Not exactly on the wild fish thing there is a certain amount of mercury that is accumulated in the fish, mercury never dissipates with in an organism, and this includes you. The amount of mercury in the fish depends on where in the world the fish is caught. Farm raised fish are excluded from this (the U.S.) because of strict aquaculture guidelines. Wild fish are also susceptible to water borne pathogens which may or may not be harmful to humans. I am a huge fisherman, so not to take away your appetite for wild fish, because for the most part a person is safe with wild fish. It takes so many ppm of the mercury to cause any harm. It is just a fact of life that most waterways including the oceans are polluted. Sad, but true.
> Clean to me is a good garden with out Monsanto fuked with seeds, and fresh beef that I raise and know what they eat. Eggs and meat are a product of what they are fed and conditions that they are raised. Eat an egg someone has raised on scratch feed (corn and various grains) without a cage and an egg of the mass produced type, huge fuking diff. The same with beef and other animals. Definition of clean to me is the history of the food in front of me. Get me?



I agree. some fish do carry mercury and pathogens. also cold water fish is known to be healthier than warm water(tropical fish).

we use to raise chickens and we only gave them minimum grain in winter. thru warm months they ate bugs, frogs, snakes, etc. they taste much different than say corn raised. and because of the diversity of diet they are better for you.


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## mickems (Jan 29, 2015)

Beefcake said:


> What exactly is grass fed beef?  I've seen it on restuarant menu's.  Don't all cows eat grass?  Do they have any other choice, maybe give them aas to get bigger right like that bull on steriods picture.



most cows are grain finished(conventional). grass fed have more gamey taste and are supposed to be better for you considering most grass fed rancher are against chemicals being used on their
cattle and fields.


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## Bro Bundy (Jan 29, 2015)

the bundy abs type of meal would be salmon ,broccoli,and a sweet potato ...thats eating clean


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## jawbrkr814 (Jan 29, 2015)

chicken nuggets, cupcakes, dbol


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## JAXNY (Jan 29, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Wait so that was you in 2 girls 1 cup?
> 
> Mine is as well.
> 
> ...



No comment by Jen, she must not have seen 2 girls 1 cup.


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## don draco (Jan 29, 2015)

Nutrient-dense, minimally processed, whole foods. 

I've taken the flexible dieting approach while bulking, and it works fine. Eventually it'll be the only way to make progress without losing your sanity lol.  

However, I have also used this approach when cutting down.. and it didn't work for me.  It was much more difficult to reach my target bf %, energy levels were significantly lower ( improved drastically once I went back to my normal approach to dieting; 100% 'clean' foods ), and I wasn't happy with how my physique was looking.  A lot of people overlook the importance of micronutrients when really, they're equally as (if not more) important as macronutrient intake / distribution. If the flexible dieting approach produced the same results as 'clean eating' in the pursuit of attaining peak conditioning, you'd see all bodybuilding competitors eat snickers, hot dogs, pizza, etc. on a daily basis during contest prep.  However, that's never the case.  And there's a good reason for that.  There is more to food than just calories and macronutrients.


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## LeanHerm (Jan 29, 2015)

snake said:


> You're asking less then most guys here. Normally I have to feed it, hunt it, kill it, butcher it, marinate it, smoke it and then deliver it. You're too easy Herm!



Yeah I have a 30-06 that works all I need is you and maybe a beer with your boy herm later. lol followed by dbol and deadlifts.


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## JAXNY (Jan 30, 2015)

I've realized that when people ask or say what is clean food that their actually are different levels of clean. 
When you say clean to me, I think of my 8-12 week cutting diet which would be super clean and the cleanest that you could get. 
Although me personally I like to stay lean most of the year, and I'll eat clean all year around to maintain that look and not smooth over very much, but its nothing near as clean as if I were cleaning up after a bulking phase. Im seeing that this difference is causing some confusion and arguinging over dieting techniques. 

So super clean,  rapid fat loss in the shortest period of time would look like 
Plain meats and fish,  no salts,  sauces act 
Plain potatoes, yams sweet pataoes no sauces butter sourcream ect. 
Whole wait pasta with no or extremely low sodium. 
Vegetables no salts butter act 
Thevlower sugar fruits such as apples ,strwberries. 
No dairy, sodas, alcohol fruit juices   
You get the picture,  the bland no fun want to hang yourself diet. Nothing that is going to make you retain water add fat or slow your fat burning process down. 
Tuff diet but I have no problem dealing with it for only a measly 8-12 weeks for quick phenomenal results. Or you could take a milder slower aproach and beat yourself up all year and yield even less results. 

A clean maintaince diet,  one where you could slowly loose weight or maintain to a degree what you previously worked hard to achieve. 
Would look somewhat similar to the abouve but not so extreme. Maybe some sauces on your meat,  cheese on your salad a desert here or there but keeping it sensible as to where you can enjoy your food more but not taking it to the level of where it would put fat back on you such as eating pizza and burgers fried chicken and alfredo sauce act 
You can dirty your food up enough to where its still clean enough to not put fat back on you or wherevit could still help you loose weight at a slower pace but where its also still enjoyable and you'll not want to hang yourself. 
But rapid fat loss in the least amount of time,  super clean is the best way to go.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 30, 2015)

JAXNY said:


> I've realized that when people ask or say what is clean food that their actually are different levels of clean.
> When you say clean to me, I think of my 8-12 week cutting diet which would be super clean and the cleanest that you could get.
> Although me personally I like to stay lean most of the year, and I'll eat clean all year around to maintain that look and not smooth over very much, but its nothing near as clean as if I were cleaning up after a bulking phase. Im seeing that this difference is causing some confusion and arguinging over dieting techniques.
> 
> ...


Can I have a burger on whole wheat bread? 

Also the vegans find your diet to be filthy and murderous lol

You keep saying that no other method besides yours will yield the same results. Prove it. Or at least explain to me how this is valid.


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## snake (Jan 30, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Also the vegans find your diet to be filthy and murderous lol
> You keep saying that no other method besides yours will yield the same results. Prove it. Or at least explain to me how this is valid.


Murderous? So they have no problem eating carrion? (I got your point)

As for JAXNY's diet. Well let me say I have done something close to it. You get everything you need and none of what you want. It's the old standard BB diet but the salt was ok until 3 days prior to a show. I was told by Joe Meeko (Mr. America & Mr. Universe) who helped me with some of my posing and training to eat this way for 4 weeks prior to a show. When I asked him about portions he laughed and said eat all you want.

I bet I peeled off the last 15-20 lbs that way. I looked ok but felt like death. I would say this would be good to do 2x/wk to drop that little extra winter fat.

You going into a BB show POB?   Come to the light.....COME TO THE LIGHT!


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 30, 2015)

snake said:


> Murderous? So they have no problem eating carrion? (I got your point)
> 
> As for JAXNY's diet. Well let me say I have done something close to it. You get everything you need and none of what you want. It's the old standard BB diet but the salt was ok until 3 days prior to a show. I was told by Joe Meeko (Mr. America & Mr. Universe) who helped me with some of my posing and training to eat this way for 4 weeks prior to a show. When I asked him about portions he laughed and said eat all you want.
> 
> ...


Haha its been tempting and it's how I started. But i love the way I train now. It's not out of the realm of possibility as I get older though.  Plus it would help to have street cred when I take on clients from bodybuilding.


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## JAXNY (Jan 30, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Can I have a burger on whole wheat bread?
> 
> Also the vegans find your diet to be filthy and murderous lol
> 
> You keep saying that no other method besides yours will yield the same results. Prove it. Or at least explain to me how this is valid.



95 percent lean beef on a whole wheat bun,  sure. 
For some reason though I figured you with a burger between 2 pop tarts. Lol. 

Vegans who claim to be healthier seem to look like the most unhealtiest people. Every time I see one in a trader joes I think what's wrong with person,  they look so unhealthy,  then you hear them say something about vegan.
I don't believe I said that no other method other than mine would yield the same results, what I do believe and have found to be true by personally using several different ways is that no other way than im speaking of will yield the same results in the same time frame. 
As far as proving it PB there are only 2 ways to prove it since I don't believe their is any documented scientific study by a reputable study. 
You would one,  just have to try both ways for yourself and see. Or you get 2 guys with the exact stats one using one method and the other using the other with the exact start and finish time and see which yielded the best results. 
But many people have already done that a couple you even qknow like Cobra strike Don Draco and myself. 
When I give advice on this board I do my best to be as acurate as I can,  and much of what I say is from my own personal experiences and experiences of my friends that one witnessed through out the years. 
Remember as I don't claim to know everything I have been in this game longer than some members have been alive. 
I don't say things to be political, thats in reguards to our sport. But I say them to be as helpful as I can for other members based off of my own true experiences. Not second hand info that someone wrote claiming to be based off of true acurate studies,  weather they are valid or not. What I say is from my own personal experiences and what I've personally witnessed,  thats about the best proof I can provide for you guys.


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## TheLupinator (Jan 30, 2015)

I've already answered this

http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/13039-Misconception-in-knowing-how-to-eat

Everyone has their own diet that works for them BUT eating clean is taking out the ingredients/foods that are horrible for your body i.e.

- Bleached white flour
- Partially hydrogenated oils
- Refined sugars
- High fructose corn syrup
- Processed meat


Everyone here should be eating clean - cutting - bulking - doesn't matter. What you're doing is confusing "eating clean" with a "cutting diet". Everyone has a diet that helps them lose fat. For me it's dropping carbs, but that doesn't mean whole grain bread is dirty. My cut diet and someone else's cut diet is going to be different. Eating clean is about cutting out the ingredients/foods that are not helping you lose fat OR gain muscle... they're just bad


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 30, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> I've already answered this
> 
> http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/13039-Misconception-in-knowing-how-to-eat
> 
> ...



There's nothing horrible to the body in that list Lup.


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## TheLupinator (Jan 30, 2015)

Docd187123 said:


> There's nothing horrible to the body in that list Lup.




In terms of burning fat? In terms of building muscle? In terms of performance?... I'm not even sure if you're serious. There might not be a faster way to legally kill yourself than to consume foods with that shit in it. Cigarettes are healthier.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 30, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> In terms of burning fat? In terms of building muscle? In terms of performance?... I'm not even sure if you're serious. There might not be a faster way to legally kill yourself than to consume foods with that shit in it. Cigarettes are healthier.



If you can, I'd like for you to post some evidence to prove that.


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## jennerrator (Jan 30, 2015)

JAXNY said:


> No comment by Jen, she must not have seen 2 girls 1 cup.



hahahahhahaha...I did and responded but it showed up inside his quote so it didn't stand out...if you look back, you'll see it


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## Maintenance Man (Jan 30, 2015)

DF said:


> Eat the whole fukn egg!!! Dammit!  Thinking that the cholesterol from eggs is going to kill you is Fukn stoooopeeed!



Well what happens when you eat a shitload of egg whites only, constantly have a high intake of chol, then get shitty lipids back even on zero gear? Assuming a clean bill of health prior to this regimen. Wouldnt that mean even whites will raise your values?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 30, 2015)

Maintenance Man said:


> Well what happens when you eat a shitload of egg whites only, constantly have a high intake of chol, then get shitty lipids back even on zero gear? Assuming a clean bill of health prior to this regimen. Wouldnt that mean even whites will raise your values?



Assuming a clean bill of health prior to that regimen I'd first look into the constantly high intake of chol before the egg whites.


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## Maintenance Man (Jan 30, 2015)

Docd187123 said:


> Assuming a clean bill of health prior to that regimen I'd first look into the constantly high intake of chol before the egg whites.



That's what I mean tho Doc. Its coming from the egg whites. I can eat "clean" all day. Even with some ground beef. Once I hit up a lil eggwhites, my app shoots the chol waaaay over


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 30, 2015)

Maintenance Man said:


> That's what I mean tho Doc. Its coming from the egg whites. I can eat "clean" all day. Even with some ground beef. Once I hit up a lil eggwhites, my app shoots the chol waaaay over



Egg whites are recommended to people with hypercholesterolemia. I'm not saying it's not possible but I think other factors/causes would be much more likely.


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## Maintenance Man (Jan 30, 2015)

Docd187123 said:


> Egg whites are recommended to people with hypercholesterolemia. I'm not saying it's not possible but I think other factors/causes would be much more likely.



I would agree. But the numbers alone from the nutritional values say that the chol is too high just for egg whites. I drink a cup of them each morning and if I have 8ozs ground beef in the same day, my chol count is way higher than the acceptable intake. That seems kinda excessive for only that doesn't it? I mean a lipid profile will tell all but just trying to gauge numbers, I don't understand it


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## TheLupinator (Jan 30, 2015)

Docd187123 said:


> If you can, I'd like for you to post some evidence to prove that.



Not everything has been tested in large sample sized long-term human double-blind controlled studies.... intelligent people need to be able to read between the lines......


http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MetabolicSyndrome/Metabolic-Syndrome_UCM_002080_SubHomePage.jsp

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MetabolicSyndrome/Prevention-and-Treatment-of-Metabolic-Syndrome_UCM_301927_Article.jsp

https://www.caring.com/articles/metabolic-syndrome-diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17935959

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21955095

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23537367

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698343

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21228440

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19399016


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## Paolos (Jan 30, 2015)

JAXNY said:


> I've realized that when people ask or say what is clean food that their actually are different levels of clean.
> When you say clean to me, I think of my 8-12 week cutting diet which would be super clean and the cleanest that you could get.
> Although me personally I like to stay lean most of the year, and I'll eat clean all year around to maintain that look and not smooth over very much, but its nothing near as clean as if I were cleaning up after a bulking phase. Im seeing that this difference is causing some confusion and arguinging over dieting techniques.
> 
> ...



Very Well Put!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 30, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> Not everything has been tested in large sample sized long-term human double-blind controlled studies.... intelligent people need to be able to read between the lines......
> 
> 
> http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MetabolicSyndrome/Metabolic-Syndrome_UCM_002080_SubHomePage.jsp
> ...





> Nevertheless, the documented adverse effects of TFAs underscore their potential to cause harm and the importance of policy measures to minimize consumption of industrially produced TFAs.



Intelligent people need to read between the lines sometimes for sure but other times the info you need is right on the line itself. None of these links showed any causation whatsoever. They showed correlation if anything. There are many factors to metabolic syndrome all of which contribute. You said these things were horrible for the body and there might not be a faster way to kill yourself. Funny bc none of the links posted talked about a single death due to these things. 

I can only assume from your extremist stance and alarmist post that you fear these things like the plague. You make no mention of context or dose anywhere in your post which is of critical importance to your claim or the topic in general. A few of your links make mention of how these things can cause systemic inflammation. What is glossed over is that systemic inflammation isn't be root of all disease but rather often a symptom. 

Nothing you've supplied here has shown that these things are as deadly as you make them out to be or even as dangerous. Should they contribute to a majority of your food intake? No of course not but nobody said that either. Dose and context.


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## NbleSavage (Jan 30, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Are whole eggs clean or just the whites?



Racist....


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## TheLupinator (Jan 30, 2015)

Docd187123 said:


> Intelligent people need to read between the lines sometimes for sure but other times the info you need is right on the line itself. None of these links showed any causation whatsoever. They showed correlation if anything. There are many factors to metabolic syndrome all of which contribute. You said these things were horrible for the body and there might not be a faster way to kill yourself. Funny bc none of the links posted talked about a single death due to these things.
> 
> I can only assume from your extremist stance and alarmist post that you fear these things like the plague. You make no mention of context or dose anywhere in your post which is of critical importance to your claim or the topic in general. A few of your links make mention of how these things can cause systemic inflammation. What is glossed over is that systemic inflammation isn't be root of all disease but rather often a symptom.
> 
> Nothing you've supplied here has shown that these things are as deadly as you make them out to be or even as dangerous. Should they contribute to a majority of your food intake? No of course not but nobody said that either. Dose and context.


I don't fear anything like the plague, Just trying to make a point. Those ingredients have negative impacts on your health, its not exactly a conspiracy theory.... 


Heart disease, stroke, diabetes... What do you think contributes to these leading causes of death? 


I'm not trying to get into a scientific debate on the quantity of the ingredients you need to consume before it becomes unhealthy... All I know is I'm not feeding my kids toaster strudels and Bologna.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 30, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> I don't fear anything like the plague, Just trying to make a point. Those ingredients have negative impacts on your health, its not exactly a conspiracy theory....



In the 80s all dietary fat had negative impact on your health and I wasmt a conspiracy theory then. Now we know better. In the 90s Unsaturated fats were the devil...now we know better. Them came the saturated fats....now we know better. In the 2000s carbs became bad for your health....now we know better. Can you see the pattern?




> Heart disease, stroke, diabetes... What do you think contributes to these leading causes of death?



All those things are the result of multi factorial issues. Genetic pre disposition and parental history of said disease play a more important role than almost anything else. To focus on a few select foods that MAY OR MAY NOT help in reade the incidence of these things is missing the forest for the trees. To prevent diabetes, do you tell someone to just stop eating carbs? Or do you tell them to limit carbs or at least watch the intake of them while exercising, maintaining a healthy body weight, check blood markers regularly, etc?




> I'm not trying to get into a scientific debate on the quantity of the ingredients you need to consume before it becomes unhealthy... All I know is I'm not feeding my kids toaster strudels and Bologna.



And you have that freedom to choose for your family and kids. You have the freedom to advise others to follow suit. I also have the freedom to question the objectivity of your recommendations to see if they are grounded in fact or mass hysteria.


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## DF (Jan 30, 2015)

Hey! no picking on the toaster strudels!


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## TheLupinator (Jan 30, 2015)

DF said:


> Hey! no picking on the toaster strudels!


Toaster strudels are like the hot older sister of pop tarts... way more delicious, and even worse for your health


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## {'Calcul08'} (Feb 12, 2015)

DF said:


> Eat the whole fukn egg!!! Dammit!  Thinking that the cholesterol from eggs is going to kill you is Fukn stoooopeeed!



And have a side of bacon with it.. because no eggsplosion is complete without a proper detonator..


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## {'Calcul08'} (Feb 12, 2015)

I can't with "clean food" any longer, because years back eggs, bacon and other delicious fat got a bad rep, then it was on to how coffee's bad, tomatoes are bad.. 

As long as it's fresh produce that hasn't been dying in chemical swamps - I'd consider that semi-clean.. Even if I grow veggies in a garden and even if I kill own farm animals for example - I'm still risking a lot if I'd use pesticide or feed animals with crap.. 

Basically, no matter how I flip it, the majority of food has been depleted of most nutritional value..


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## Yaya (Feb 12, 2015)

Pig is an unclean animal, at least that's what the pilots say


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