# Too Old to be Asking This



## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

I’m 29, and I’ve been pretty sheltered and chaste my whole life.

Some of it was 90’s church sex-scare tactics; but also legitimately me deciding as an adult to wait on sex until marriage. 

It wasn’t until my 20s that I began pursuing women in relationships and found that I really struggled with physical intimacy. I didn’t realize that I while I have solid relationships with my family and friends, I’m really adverse to touch. Not big on hugs or shoulder pats, etc.

With dates I would put off making moves because I wasn’t comfortable and I got nervous. Those relationships fizzled out as a result.

My current relationship has blossomed because she is experienced and very into physical touch, but she waited for me to be comfortable without pushing me away. Our first kiss, was my move, I came down with a stress crash/flu the day afterward because I was so anxious about it and then relieved afterward.

We have since progressed a lot. I feel comfortable demonstrating my affection and stuff. Friends and family have noticed and commented that I’m much more warm and affectionate to others now as I let that guard down.

Now engaged, my fiancée and I continue to progress physically at what most would consider a snails pace. But it has worked for us. She has had experiences with men who wanted only sex, so she’s glad that hasn’t been my goal.

Last night we took a big step. I stripped down at her urging and she gave me my first blow job.

This may seem minor to you, but monumental in a few ways for me. It was my first time being nude in front of a woman; my first time being touched, and first time being sucked.

I had sky-high expectations. I wanted to perform.

i stayed hard.

then we were both disappointed because I didn’t cum. We tried and tried. I tried manually. I couldn’t cum.

We were dissappointed. 

But I’m really dissappointed. My first time feels like a huge let down, after all that pressure.

I need to share, I told a buddy who’s married and he told me I was overthinking it. 

My fiancée and I have been texting back and forth all day. We were both nervous and disappointed but will try again soon. She felt more vulnerable than I had assumed, even though she has some experience.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 13, 2020)

Dude, its better than cumming within the first minute.

This is actually a jackpot 

shes got her work cut out for her


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## Trump (Nov 13, 2020)

Zeig is right most people shoot in seconds 1st time


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## rawdeal (Nov 13, 2020)

Your title speaks of asking something, but it's unclear what that is.  Is what you're going through normal ... is that what your question is?  There's different forms of "normal" for different people.  Your married buddy is exactly right ... you are overthinking things, but that's one form of normal for some folks.  At the other end of things, we hear in the news of boys barely physically ready to perform who rape girls, and that, unfortunately, is a different form of normal for some.  You are normal for the more civilized part of the population ... you are unusual in that it took you 29 yrs to get here, but you are not abnormal.  If your girl is as good as she sounds, you two will get to the "Not tonight Dear, I have a headache" stage soon enough.  The timing will be unpredictable, but you'll relax in spite of yourself, and all of a sudden you'll be back here asking for suggestions on baby names.


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## SFGiants (Nov 13, 2020)

I don't relate at all sorry brother!

I was expelled from Kindergarten for not leaving girl's alone and stocking them out all day to see whom I'll nap with at nap time, true story!

Mom was pissed, before she could whoop my ass I made her laugh and didn't end up in trouble. I said why are you mad it's not like it was boy's, she laughed and said you're right but this better not happen next year. I couldn't comeback til the next year!

We were almost a lifting board again!


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## dk8594 (Nov 13, 2020)

Dear Penthouse Letters,

You’re not going to believe this ( I hardly do either) but last night...........


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## dk8594 (Nov 13, 2020)

It’s probably between the ears, but check your medicine cabinet.Certain meds can cause the inability to climax.


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## Deadhead (Nov 13, 2020)

Are u on cycle?


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> Are u on cycle?


I just finished my cycle on Tuesday. I’m coming off to PCT in two weeks.
Test E 500 (16 weeks) and NPP 500 (8 weeks).


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

dk8594 said:


> It’s probably between the ears, but check your medicine cabinet.Certain meds can cause the inability to climax.



Ive taken Test and NPP.
Just came off.
I edged and jerked fine on Wednesday, the not cumming on Thursday I hope is from nerves


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## white ape (Nov 13, 2020)

Overthinking and too much pressure put on the situation. 

you need to relax and just enjoy the moment and try to not think so much. 

easier said than done in your case I’m sure


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

rawdeal said:


> Your title speaks of asking something, but it's unclear what that is.  Is what you're going through normal ... is that what your question is?  There's different forms of "normal" for different people.  Your married buddy is exactly right ... you are overthinking things, but that's one form of normal for some folks.  At the other end of things, we hear in the news of boys barely physically ready to perform who rape girls, and that, unfortunately, is a different form of normal for some.  You are normal for the more civilized part of the population ... you are unusual in that it took you 29 yrs to get here, but you are not abnormal.  If your girl is as good as she sounds, you two will get to the "Not tonight Dear, I have a headache" stage soon enough.  The timing will be unpredictable, but you'll relax in spite of yourself, and all of a sudden you'll be back here asking for suggestions on baby names.


You’re right, I didn’t ask a question. I’m being insane right now spiraling in my head a lot.

But you answered my question: was my first experience “normal”?

I know there’s a wide variety, but I’ve since called my buddy who’s married and a doctor and asked for input. He suggested that:
1. BJs aren’t always that great
2. if we were nervous that’s huge


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## DOOM (Nov 13, 2020)

Nothing worse then a half ass blow job. So don’t ever be afraid to pull it out of her mouth and wank off all over her face.


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## creekrat (Nov 13, 2020)

dted23, 

Don't let anyone belittle or make you feel like less of a man because you stuck to your guns.  I applaud you sir.  Now let's get down to business.  Every first time sexual act has very unreal expectations as well as a great deal of stress. 

Will I perform like my buddies or TV characters say they do?
Will I be a 2 pump chump?
Will i please her?
and on and on and on

I LOVE blowjobs, what guy doesn't, but very seldom cum from them and it bothers my wife.  I just reinforce that she did great and it felt amazing and that it was no fault of hers.  One of my goals for any sexual experience is to focus on her and make sure she gets hers.  I get joy from her begging me to stop because it is TOO pleasurable.  Make it your goal to make her orgasm first and she will LOVE you for it.  Not derogatory, but by your own admission you lack experience.  Offer to go down on her, if you're comfortable with it, and tell her to help guide you for what she likes.  It will be more clinical for both of you at first but over time, it'll become second nature to both of you.

Good luck and once again, mad props to you for staying true to yourself


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## white ape (Nov 13, 2020)

I have this to add. My first time having sex was a let down. Not from cumming too quick or anything like that. The issue was that she just laid there. Like a dead fish on her back. Had sex with her years later and it was the exact same thing. Both experiences were the worst sex of my life.

what I’m trying to say is that a lot of the time the pleasure from sex or sexual acts has much more to do with things that aren’t the actual act of sex. Such as passion, noises, movement, connection, attitude, and so on. 

ive also had bad blowjobs. It’s more common than you would think. Anyone who says there is no such thing as a bad blowjob is wrong.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

creekrat said:


> dted23,
> 
> Don't let anyone belittle or make you feel like less of a man because you stuck to your guns.  I applaud you sir.  Now let's get down to business.  Every first time sexual act has very unreal expectations as well as a great deal of stress.
> 
> ...



this is huge man, thanks for the encouragement.

im super in my head, I tend to be really chill. But body image and sex are the two things that wreck my psyche.

I am extremely communicative and I appreciate shes receptive to it. I can tell she likes something pretty easily, but I will verify by asking. I’ll be upfront and tell her what does or doesn’t work for me.

im so nervous about being good to her, that I asked “is this okay?” While her mouth was occupied with a deep throated dick.

I was so nervous because I had built it up in my head so much over the years based on friends comments, the internet, porn, the media, and even church. I just assumed it would be magic.

Not me trying to jerk and cum after a failed blow job while she pets my chest and encourages me.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

white ape said:


> Overthinking and too much pressure put on the situation.
> 
> you need to relax and just enjoy the moment and try to not think so much.
> 
> easier said than done in your case I’m sure



yeah, I’m not usually crazy. But identity can be so wrapped up in sex that for it to go so unexpectedly is really nerve wracking even more.

im relieved sooooo much that she likes my equipment, she’s the first girl I’ve shown.

im relieved soo much that now she can just grab my junk when we cuddle.

im relieved to have crossed the sex barrier.

im just bummed with how it went the first time


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## John Ziegler (Nov 13, 2020)

dted23 said:


> I edged and jerked fine on Wednesday



Ladies & Gentleman, weve got an edger !


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

John Ziegler said:


> Ladies & Gentleman, weve got an edger !


Lol, so? I don’t do it often, do you think that may have been a factor? Is it a bad idea?


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## BRICKS (Nov 13, 2020)

Forget about the first time.  Anybody who said they were any good at all at sex their first time is full of shit.  Just let things happen as they happen.


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## Texan69 (Nov 13, 2020)

I thought you were gonna end up saying you nutted too quick.. don’t let it affect you man.  You were nervous 

you mentioned church sex scare tactics and wanting to wait until marriage for sex? I’m assuming because of religious reasons. If so we’re you maybe feeling guilty or thinking about religion and this being a sin if so that would def mess you up 

your not less of a man because you could cum your fine. First time is out of the way it’s all down hill now


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

BRICKS said:


> Forget about the first time.  Anybody who said they were any good at all at sex their first time is full of shit.  Just let things happen as they happen.



thanks, that helps too.
ive been hearing that from a few people. I’m behind the curve time-wise, but there’s a learning curve everyone experiences


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## TeddyBear (Nov 13, 2020)

BRICKS said:


> Forget about the first time.  Anybody who said they were any good at all at sex their first time is full of shit.  Just let things happen as they happen.



I know. We BOTH expected I’d bust immediately.
so 30 minutes later we were both bummed.

Yes, I was worried about the premarital sex bit, I think a part of me always will, but I feel okay about that now. It doesn’t change my faith or our relationship with God.



Texan69 said:


> I thought you were gonna end up saying you nutted too quick.. don’t let it affect you man.  You were nervous
> 
> you mentioned church sex scare tactics and wanting to wait until marriage for sex? I’m assuming because of religious reasons. If so we’re you maybe feeling guilty or thinking about religion and this being a sin if so that would def mess you up
> 
> your not less of a man because you could cum your fine. First time is out of the way it’s all down hill now


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## John Ziegler (Nov 13, 2020)

dted23 said:


> Lol, so? I don’t do it often, do you think that may have been a factor? Is it a bad idea?



all depends on whether or not its a briggs & stratton


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## SFGiants (Nov 14, 2020)

BRICKS said:


> Forget about the first time.  Anybody who said they were any good at all at sex their first time is full of shit.  Just let things happen as they happen.



Huge learning curves for sure.

Beautiful when 2 learn together!


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## lfod14 (Nov 14, 2020)

Like the other said man, overthinking it. You can 100% get in your own head and do real physical "damage" because of it. Back in the early 2000s when DMAA was in all the fat burners and pre workouts right before it was banned I found out about it giving guys ED..... guess what happened to me shortly after? Damn ED! Was is real? In my head? i don't know but it screwed me over countless times, almost a year later shit went down real fast and I banged the life out of this girl and I'm convinced it was because I had no time to think and get in my head about it, real convenient! Wasn't a problem again after that. Can't get in your head!


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## Bobbyloads (Nov 14, 2020)

dted23 said:


> I just finished my cycle on Tuesday. I’m coming off to PCT in two weeks.
> Test E 500 (16 weeks) and NPP 500 (8 weeks).



wait hold up...... you ain’t ****ing at 29 but your doing cycles?


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## white ape (Nov 14, 2020)

Bobbyloads said:


> wait hold up...... you ain’t ****ing at 29 but your doing cycles?



Dude, don't judge the man. Each to their own

My life would be more simple if I just worked out and did cycles and wasn't pulled in by the power of the pussy.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 14, 2020)

Bobbyloads said:


> wait hold up...... you ain’t ****ing at 29 but your doing cycles?


Well, when you’ve struggled with body image insecurity, your instinct may be to try to get jacked thinking that’s how you can find affirmation as a man.

some people turn to sex, that wasn’t my natural inclination.

Some people are healthier with both.

ive quit my cycle and will PCT, I’m trying to get my head on straight. I have new goals that aren’t image-based, a diet plan, and a program from a powerlifting coach. I have accountability in the form of friends who I talked into finishing with their latest cycle and stopping before injecting what they just ordered, the three of us are staying natty together (or I will, if they change their mind).

Ive done a lot of processing and growing this year. The two areas of my life where I see the greatest need are my body dysmorphia and intimacy issues. I’m working to address those.


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## white ape (Nov 14, 2020)

dted23 said:


> Well, when you’ve struggled with body image insecurity, your instinct may be to try to get jacked thinking that’s how you can find affirmation as a man.
> 
> some people turn to sex, that wasn’t my natural inclination.
> 
> ...



Bro - I appreciate your respectful response, but you don't have to answer to anyone on here about how you live your life. 

There isn't anything wrong with cycles either. It's your choice either way. 

Ive turned to alcohol and pussy in the past. Its a road to ruin. 

Stick around dude. I like your attitude and demeanor.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 14, 2020)

white ape said:


> Bro - I appreciate your respectful response, but you don't have to answer to anyone on here about how you live your life.
> 
> There isn't anything wrong with cycles either. It's your choice either way.
> 
> ...


Thanks, as dumb as I feel for having hopped a cycle when I didn’t need to, and as I experienced as I am sexually. I AM a really level-headed, chill, and smart guy.

Just on cycle I compounded the worst of my body image toxicity and sex-drive while in a relationship that was committed to abstinence.

Well; we kinda “blew” that one, but I’m okay with it.

I work with young people and I want to be a role model who’s honest and practices what he preaches.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 14, 2020)

Also, yeah.

Talked to my fiancée about it a lot today and we agreed we should just try again. So worked out, washed up, put a tiny bit beard oil around the bits for scent.

We’ll try again.


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## white ape (Nov 14, 2020)

dted23 said:


> Also, yeah.
> 
> Talked to my fiancée about it a lot today and we agreed we should just try again. So worked out, washed up, put a tiny bit beard oil around the bits for scent.
> 
> We’ll try again.



relax and enjoy dude


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## TeddyBear (Nov 14, 2020)

Nah, it was a bust again dudes. I’m really dissappointed. She’s wondering if I’m even into her.


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## Jin (Nov 14, 2020)

dted23 said:


> Nah, it was a bust again dudes. I’m really dissappointed. She’s wondering if I’m even into her.



your fiancé is wondering if you’re into her?

I feel like OP’s account got hacked by an immature roommate.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 15, 2020)

I had all day and time to process it with her and friends.

I still struggle with performance anxiety, that’s likely a bug part of my frustration and lack of enjoyment from the sex.

I also think that my naturally low sexual desire plays a role. The two feed off of each other: the inexperience/anxiety and the seed-of-sexual-desire.

Its a new thing for me. Way more complicated to learn and grow through than I expected, or expect anyone to relate to.

but if you do; you’re not alone.

sex is tougher than people let on, it’s more complex, but it’s okay. It’s not a success or fail, it’s an experience. I just hope I will believe that in practice for round 3.


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## Jin (Nov 15, 2020)

dted23 said:


> I had all day and time to process it with her and friends.
> 
> I still struggle with performance anxiety, that’s likely a bug part of my frustration and lack of enjoyment from the sex.
> 
> ...




I’m curious as to Why are you sharing these intimate things with a bunch of strangers on the internet?


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## dk8594 (Nov 15, 2020)

I was watching an interview and Gweneth Paltrow and she said she had the same issue with not being able to climax. Here is what she used. Hope it helps !
View attachment 10807


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## dk8594 (Nov 15, 2020)

Jin said:


> I’m curious as to Why are you sharing these intimate things with a bunch of strangers on the internet?



probably the same reason why I joined a delayed ejaculation forum to talk about bodybuilding


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## TeddyBear (Nov 15, 2020)

The anonymity helps, that’s why.

I need to vent. Even if it’s in isolation. Sorry Guys; I should stop.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 15, 2020)

So was my briggs & stratton joke lame

or did nobody get it ?


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## Jin (Nov 15, 2020)

dted23 said:


> The anonymity helps, that’s why.
> 
> I need to vent. Even if it’s in isolation. Sorry Guys; I should stop.



I wasn’t judging. Just asking. The guys here have been helpful so far and you aren’t breaking any rules so.....


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## stonetag (Nov 15, 2020)

John Ziegler said:


> So was my briggs & stratton joke lame
> 
> or did nobody get it ?


Wasn't sure I got it Zieg, brand of edger? Not even sure what edging is besides the obvious.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 16, 2020)

stonetag said:


> Wasn't sure I got it Zieg, brand of edger? Not even sure what edging is besides the obvious.



Ok, edging means where the guy keeps beating off till hes just about to nut.

Then he stops for a bit till it cools off a couple seconds.

Then starts right back up again, riding that edge of just about to cum


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 16, 2020)

I can't believe I'm just seeing this thread, it's so right up my perverted alley.

Dude there is nothing at all wrong with you.

It's fine to not cum everytime you get a bj or even sex. I almost never come from bj's. I usually do from sex, but even sometimes I don't from sex, and it's no big deal. Just enjoy the experience.

If a girl is trying really hard to make me cum from a blowjob, I kinda feel bad for them when I can't. But I usually just tell them I don't cum that way and we're gonna have to ****, and that's how it works out.

If you and your girl aren't at that stage yet (sex) just enjoy whatever intimacy y'all have together and don't get hung up on orgasms yet.

Eventually you're gonna want to make her cum too, and that will probably be a mind**** also unfortunately.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 16, 2020)

CohibaRobusto said:


> I can't believe I'm just seeing this thread, it's so right up my perverted alley.
> 
> Dude there is nothing at all wrong with you.
> 
> ...



thanks, I’m really trying to accept this.

We’re so nervous to try again, but I’m torn: should we simply enjoy a stress free night together with no performance of sex, or hop back in and aim for familiarity-not-fear.


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## Trump (Nov 16, 2020)

Don’t plan anything have a night together without pressure and let nature take it’s course



dted23 said:


> thanks, I’m really trying to accept this.
> 
> We’re so nervous to try again, but I’m torn: should we simply enjoy a stress free night together with no performance of sex, or hop back in and aim for familiarity-not-fear.


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 16, 2020)

dted23 said:


> thanks, I’m really trying to accept this.
> 
> We’re so nervous to try again, but I’m torn: should we simply enjoy a stress free night together with no performance of sex, or hop back in and aim for familiarity-not-fear.



Do whatever y'all feel like doing at the time. Don't force anything or have some plan that you end up stressing about. Just enjoy each other's company.

You have the rest of your life to tweak your sex life. At 45, I'm still learning to be a better partner / lover. Learning about your sexuality is a process that will continue to evolve over time. 

Check out my thread on polyamory in the red light section if you want to see how crazy it can get if you're a kinky slut LOL.


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## HollyWoodCole (Nov 16, 2020)

Did I miss where someone talked about how difficult it can be to climax when you've been running a nandrolone such as npp?


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## TeddyBear (Nov 16, 2020)

HollyWoodCole said:


> Did I miss where someone talked about how difficult it can be to climax when you've been running a nandrolone such as npp?


No, no one has said that.
Ive masterbated okay, but I’m wondering if that’s been part of it too.


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## Jin (Nov 16, 2020)

dted23 said:


> No, no one has said that.
> Ive masterbated okay, but I’m wondering if that’s been part of it too.



If you’re having issues climaxing with a partner I’d cease any solo time.


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## BRICKS (Nov 17, 2020)

Jin said:


> If you’re having issues climaxing with a partner I’d cease any solo time.



And therein lies the rub.......


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## John Ziegler (Nov 17, 2020)

Jin said:


> If you’re having issues climaxing with a partner I’d cease any solo time.



good idea, especially if youre spanking it to porno.

hard to get excited about bangin a chick on her back or a simple bj.

When you've been beatin off to tranny porn all day


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## Jin (Nov 17, 2020)

John Ziegler said:


> good idea, especially if youre spanking it to porno.
> 
> hard to get excited about bangin a chick on her back or a simple bj.
> 
> When you've been beatin off to tranny porn all day




There are many practical reasons why watching porn isn’t good for your sex life, or for your outlook. None of them need be moralistic.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 17, 2020)

We definitely panicked. We considered pushing back buying a house together.

My instinct was to retreat too, but I know myself. Retreating even one step will lead to more backpedaling.

So I doubled down, even without the courage.

i told her: if we can’t handle buying a house together, we shouldn’t send wedding invites either. 

We hesitated and panicked some more.

When we saw each other again, just an hour later. It was awkward and strained a bit. But then we held to each other and committed to fighting this out together.

I will see a therapist. She will stick with me. Even through our wedding date, even if I’m not better, she will stay with me. We hope I’ll improve.

We sent in the check together today for the house. We order invites this week. I have her vote of confidence that I can overcome my intimacy issues.

I think I can get some good sleep for the first time in 5 days. I feel some peace.

we aren’t at 100%, we hit a hurdle; skinned our knees. But we’re running together again in the same direction.

Im glad to do it together.


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## Jin (Nov 17, 2020)

dted23 said:


> We definitely panicked. We considered pushing back buying a house together.
> 
> My instinct was to retreat too, but I know myself. Retreating even one step will lead to more backpedaling.
> 
> ...




You're being dramatic man. This is a bump in the road, not the end of the world. There’s nothing wrong with you: people have been successfully figuring out sex for millennia. maybe it takes time, so what?

Sex is only a part of marriage and is not the most important part (it is, however, important). 

True sexual intimacy in the context of a marriage is not mainly a physical thing. 

It can take years before the sex goes from ok to mind blowing. On the other hand, relationships that are based on sex have a weak foundation. 

 You both need to feel safe, loved and need to be able to be vulnerable with each other emotionally before you’re able to be vulnerable sexually. 

If you love her and she loves you it will work out. 

Our culture makes sex out to be the end all be all and THE dominant force in any romantic relationship. It’s not. 

With the way you write about this I can only imagine how troubled your thoughts are. Anxiety and overthinking are your enemy in bed. Relax. If you need to get a small dose of bezos then do so. 

You are really making this way too big of a deal. Stop obsessing over this and move ahead.


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## Ped X (Nov 18, 2020)

Yeeeaaahhh bro, just relax and keep bangin away. Your nerves will eventually subside. Anxiety releases adrenaline which will also **** with your ability to bust.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 18, 2020)

Jin said:


> your fiancé is wondering if you’re into her?
> 
> I feel like OP’s account got hacked by an immature roommate.



Why are you having sex before marriage? Are you test driving before you buy, so to speak?


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Nov 18, 2020)

dted23 said:


> We definitely panicked. We considered pushing back buying a house together.
> 
> My instinct was to retreat too, but I know myself. Retreating even one step will lead to more backpedaling.
> 
> ...



I think seeing a therapist could really help in your instance. It may sound corny but alot of past experiences can influence your behavior in the present.
My brother was able to stay sober and off drugs after he received therapy in rehab. 
Its okay bro, just don't think theres anything wrong with yourself. Its just a glitch in the system, you just need a update to fix it.


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## HollyWoodCole (Nov 18, 2020)

Jin said:


> You're being dramatic man. This is a bump in the road, not the end of the world. There’s nothing wrong with you: people have been successfully figuring out sex for millennia. maybe it takes time, so what?
> 
> Sex is only a part of marriage and is not the most important part (it is, however, important).
> 
> ...


Most intelligent thing I've seen in awhile.  

We all like to kid around, bash idiots, and get our zingers in on most threads but there is some true wisdom in this post.  


Again, you've been on a nandrolone for weeks and have not recovered yet.  You are more burdened by what you were taught as a young man than anything.  Naughty is sexy, if you feel what you're doing is wrong it is another contributing factor to not being able to climax.  

Also, we have to remind each other that any time around a cycle (to include recovery) is no time to be making life-altering decisions.  From a hormone perspective you are someone else, and the 'normal you' may not appreciate the decisions you make.


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## BigSwolePump (Nov 18, 2020)

BRICKS said:


> Forget about the first time.  Anybody who said they were any good at all at sex their first time is full of shit.  Just let things happen as they happen.



Speak for yourself. I was awesome!

I mean it was the best 30 seconds of my life:32 (18):


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## TeddyBear (Nov 23, 2020)

HollyWoodCole said:


> Most intelligent thing I've seen in awhile.
> 
> We all like to kid around, bash idiots, and get our zingers in on most threads but there is some true wisdom in this post.
> 
> ...



I agree and understand.

I am abstaining from jerking off, to increase my libido towards her, and to reset my sensitivity.

Last night; after quality time together for a few days with sex off the table. No pressure, just comfort and close was. Well, last night, rested. We tried Attempt 3 to success.

I will still give myself grace, I will still seek counseling.

But to joyously bust one of the largest nuts with her was a huge relief. Especially as she swore outloud, like she never does, “f***, that would have super got me pregnant. F*** that’s so much cum”. It was a thrilling experience for which I am grateful and relieved.


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## white ape (Nov 23, 2020)

Good job dude. Now try anal!


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 23, 2020)

Way to go brother!


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## rawdeal (Nov 23, 2020)

That woman may have created a monster!  

probably just as well you didn't say "that's a big load off my mind."


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## TeddyBear (Nov 24, 2020)

I said I felt a “lot of pressure released”, “I feel lighter”, and “loads better”. So close enough.

We agreed, in the future, that she doesn’t need to run to clean up. We talk in detail a lot, because we’re both analytical and direct. She said she doesn’t feel one way or the other about swallowing or spitting. She said she was glad I didn’t finish in her mouth though, because it was unexpected. Unexpected on my end too.

I told her that I felt a ton of relief, will continue to seek therapy to deal with my general anxiety. But that it was real important to me, no matter how minor or silly, to cum. I explained that it’s a weird-men’s-virility thing I needed to prove to myself and I feel better knowing now. She didn’t get it, but I’m so glad she’s happy for me despite it.


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## rawdeal (Nov 24, 2020)

She'll never be able to look you in the "eye" again


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## grizzldsealpoacher (Nov 24, 2020)

To old LOL. Homie I am 39 and feel like a virgin. Your blessed


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## Trump (Nov 24, 2020)

Be a gent and clean her up next time with your mouth


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## TeddyBear (Nov 28, 2020)

I’m gonna settle in for the long-haul, as much as I don’t want to.

It messes with your brain for sure, not performing.

Is it stress? Is it performance anxiety? Is it the nandrolone? Is is US? Is it ME? Is it “death grip syndrome” from masturbating too much for too long?

I don’t know. I added that last one because honestly, I feel nothing. I have no erogenous zones, my dick senses very little that she does. I see and hear, but feel nothing. 

Im going to do this:
1. Enjoy intimacy, as best I can, knowing that whether I can or can’t orgasm isn’t the end all.
2. Make her cum. Even if I can’t feel pleasure, I can help her.
3. Abstain from masturbating. I won’t cum until she makes me.
4. Say “no” to spiraling anxious thoughts.
5. Continue with counseling through therapy
6. Continue, finish PCT, and restart natty-life

If anyone ever comes across this, I hope I’ll update in the future with tips to help anyone who feels similarly


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## TeddyBear (Dec 6, 2020)

It’s been only a week, but these days weeks seem like ages.

My fiancée and I have a had a few conversations that required quite a bit of vulnerability. We’re both wrestling with insecurities and are both in touch with therapists.

She, due to past experiences, withdraws and retreats when things get messy. She’s had a broken engagement from some douche who cheated on her. Plus she admits that many women spiral negatively when they can interpret something as a shortcoming based on their appearance or body. She took my inability to finish, my apparent detachment seeming disinterest as a total lack of arousal.

I had to communicate, what she knew already, but in new context. I explained; in the span of one day I bought a house with my fiancée which was stressful already, but was naked for the first time with a woman, touched for the first time, grab a boob for the first time, grab her pussy for the first time, and got sucked. Not to mention 29 years of societal pressure to be manly/perform, personal pressure for her to like my junk, and good ol’ Christian guilt for losing my virginity.

I was trying to not panic. I couldn’t be fully aroused: I was trying to stay fully conscious of all of it.

She understood.

On Sunday, last week, 6 days ago, we tried again. This time I made her cum with my hand, which was another first, but I couldn’t finish again. I was batting .25 and feeling bad about it.

I would dwell on it for a little; think that something must be wrong with my hormones. I broke my dick with prolactin. Or my anxiety is SO bad I broke my dick.

But then I’d think about it: nah, hormones can’t be it. Hormones might be contributing, maybe to the stress.

But then I also came down on this:
1. Orgasm isn’t the end all be all of sex
2. Sex isn’t the end all be all of a married relationship
3. the first 4 sexual experiences aren’t the promise of what’s to come
4. my pressure is too great, I just need to chill

She decided that we should chill and avoid sexy time until we’re both emotionally ready. That was 6-days ago.

Well, tonight we’re about to make dinner and plan our wedding registry...
then a slow song comes on the Echo...
then I’m giving the kind of neck kisses she likes...
then we’re horizontal and she indicates I can remove her bra...
then she grabs my dick.

I will say, she definitely looked up stuff online, because this time her hand added a lot to the blow job experience.

So, we had fun. Neither of us finished, but neither of us was dissatisfied. I’m not anxious, I’m not bummed.

Its okay.

Coming to grips with that goes a long ways.

This has been like a diary for me, so sorry for the smut, but it helps to get it out.

Also, if anyone needs the encouragement:
-losing your virginity isn’t necessarily going to be a great experience
-sex is more like running than racing; there isn’t always a finish line, sometimes it’s the practice that’s better than the performance
-you can’t outthink anxiety
-if you don’t want to worry whether it’s hormones messing with your dick, don’t mess with your hormones


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## Adrenolin (Dec 6, 2020)

I've never cum from a bj, ever. Sex I've both had some minute sessions, and some 2hr trenbolone/dapoxetine/whiskey fueled marathons. It's no big deal either way really... unless you started gettin a cramp and start rolling around the bed like a big baby. That sucks lol
View attachment 10970


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## DOOM (Dec 6, 2020)

Adrenolin said:


> I've never cum from a bj, ever. Sex I've both had some minute sessions, and some 2hr trenbolone/dapoxetine/whiskey fueled marathons. It's no big deal either way really... unless you started gettin a cramp and start rolling around the bed like a big baby. That sucks lol
> View attachment 10970


 Wow! I’m speechless!


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## Adrenolin (Dec 6, 2020)

DOOM said:


> Wow! I’m speechless!



It always makes girls eager to try.. it feels great, just don't get off from it


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## DOOM (Dec 6, 2020)

Adrenolin said:


> It always makes girls eager to try.. it feels great, just don't get off from it


 No I feel you! I don’t always get off on them either. Some girls are just go getters! Some are better and try harder then others!


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## JAXNY (Dec 7, 2020)

Bro..you've got to make lemonade out of lemons. 
Here's a little secret. Most guys nut way too fast and the girl is disappointed and doesn't say anything and then cheats on your ass. 
Use it to your advantage and pound the shit out of her for an hour straight..have her leaving your house using a walker. Guaranteed she'll be beating down your door.


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## JAXNY (Dec 7, 2020)

Btw...you see my abs, you know how I get them like that? By Fukking and not Cummings. I get a good ab workout until it burns and I go to failure.....then I do another three sets.


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## TeddyBear (Dec 7, 2020)

JAXNY said:


> Bro..you've got to make lemonade out of lemons.
> Here's a little secret. Most guys nut way too fast and the girl is disappointed and doesn't say anything and then cheats on your ass.
> Use it to your advantage and pound the shit out of her for an hour straight..have her leaving your house using a walker. Guaranteed she'll be beating down your door.



lol. I don’t have abs, so I’ll have to practice as you say.


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## graybass (Dec 8, 2020)

Way over thinking this!!!!
Your just a late bloomer. It's going to be great very soon!


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## Mandarb (Dec 14, 2020)

dted23 said:


> I’m 29, and I’ve been pretty sheltered and chaste my whole life.
> 
> Some of it was 90’s church sex-scare tactics; but also legitimately me deciding as an adult to wait on sex until marriage.
> 
> ...



I know several guys that can’t cum from just a blow job, me included. I think it’s part of my psyche of wanting to be in control of the situation. 

In your case though I think it’s just nerves. My first time ever I went limp, and got hard like 5 times during the act from overthinking it. First times are rarely good, as a matter of fact I’ve never heard of a good first time.

The best thing you can do is remove expectations from the process until you get comfortable enough to finish. Let her know you enjoyed it, you want it again, and that you don’t even plan to finish. Focus on the sensations, her, and just enjoy the moment without the pressure of needing to finish or do whatever. Let her know you’re still growing in this way and it means a lot that she is helping you to open up.


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## Mandarb (Dec 14, 2020)

Jin said:


> If you’re having issues climaxing with a partner I’d cease any solo time.



I was about to edit my post and say this as well. Learned this lesson the hard way lol.


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## TeddyBear (Dec 16, 2020)

Mandarb said:


> I was about to edit my post and say this as well. Learned this lesson the hard way lol.



yeah, I went like 10+ days but then caved and jerked off. I wanted to see the impact of my Clomid PCT. But I’ll hold off. In the past month that’s only 2-3 loads lost.

Ill wait for her again. Next possible opportunity would be Day 7+.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 1, 2021)

This is an overdue update in case anyone comes across this, I hope it imparts some wisdom.

I was naive and wrong.

I way overthought it. It took a a few weeks, but eventually she and I were able to climax.

The things I learned:
1. Performance anxiety is real and often leads to performance issues. THATS OK. Accepting it is the only way to overcome it. You can’t out-think it.
2. I was doing too much at once. I had a LOT of stress on me and this was too much for me to handle.
3. Don’t put pressure on yourself; yes, I was really late to the game. But I had to learn like everyone else. It’s like lifting. Starting later than everyone else means there’s a learning curve and some people naturally grow faster, others slower; give it time to learn what works for you.
4. She PUSHED HER ANXIETY on me. Loving me well, as someone without experience would have been encouraging me. Not questioning the depth of my love or attraction. She was emasculating and hurting me: that compounded.

5. your sexuality and experience DOES NOT define you, as much as people make it a big part of their life and identity. You choose how much to do so for yourself.

I still wrestle with a lot these things. I still feel woefully inadequate and emasculated, but I’m out of that relationship and working on me with therapy.

If this resonated with youC hang in there brother, it does get better. But you need to practice self-compassion and realize you’re imperfect, you’re trying and you’re learning.


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## RISE (Aug 1, 2021)

I just wanted to say it takes a ton of balls to admit what you have to us.  Good for you, I hope you have received a good bit of advice.  I also believe it's just nerves for you.  Have a couple drinks next time and get ready to unload.  Make sure you have HCG!!


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## The Phoenix (Aug 1, 2021)

I would say I concur. You’re big man for that. One has to be honest with oneself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TeddyBear (Aug 1, 2021)

RISE said:


> I just wanted to say it takes a ton of balls to admit what you have to us.  Good for you, I hope you have received a good bit of advice.  I also believe it's just nerves for you.  Have a couple drinks next time and get ready to unload.  Make sure you have HCG!!


lol, you missed in the chat.

I felt like an awkward puppy, first time at a bar to try to meet women. But I don’t drink and I floundered pretty poorly.

I have to stay true to myself, which means a lot of advice I have to take with a grain of salt. Friends pushed some hook ups, get drunk to get over it, smoke with us. But I can’t and won’t, as much as I wish those would be solutions for me.

Ill do it my way, I just have to get out of my head, be patient and forgiving with myself. It will work out.


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## OldeBull1 (Aug 1, 2021)

I'll sympathize and tell you it's no fun, but nothing to worry about.
However you got here, you're here now and this is going on. Nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed by, it happens.
Open and honest communication goes a long way. If you can be open and honest, you can accept what is happening at the moment as a momentary situation,  not the status quo.
Communication can also establish realistic expectations.  If those aren't established, you base what you expect off of what you know (which you say, isn't alot). Without realistic expectations,  you'll compare things to fiction, other people's stories, and porn. Put all of that aside, and be yourself.


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## The Phoenix (Aug 1, 2021)

OldeBull1 said:


> I'll sympathize and tell you it's no fun, but nothing to worry about.
> However you got here, you're here now and this is going on. Nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed by, it happens.
> Open and honest communication goes a long way. If you can be open and honest, you can accept what is happening at the moment as a momentary situation,  not the status quo.
> Communication can also establish realistic expectations.  If those aren't established, you base what you expect off of what you know (which you say, isn't alot). Without realistic expectations,  you'll compare things to fiction, other people's stories, and porn. Put all of that aside, and be yourself.


@OldeBull1 If you don't mind, I am going to steal your 2nd to last sentence ; it sound's intense.


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## BrotherIron (Aug 2, 2021)

It sounds to me like you're just trying to hard.  Go out, have fun, and just meet people to begin with. 

You need to loosen up and you shouldn't need to drink or get drunk to do that. It just takes some practice talking to people and before you know you'll be surprised.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 13, 2021)

I since worked up the courage to try going out with friends again. They’re both a bit of hounds for women, but they’re also both in happy dating relationships and I found were not motivated to talk to anyone new. Which I super understand and respect.

That was fine, because then it was up to me.
We went to 5 bars, only 2 of which were busy, but not apparently as “popping” as they often would be given the lingering overnight heatwave.

At each location, however, I quickly found that the women there were very much not my type. In fact, I thought it was a below average collection of women. Beyond that, the climate of each bar was very “keep to yourself” and mingling was minimal. So probably not the ideal scene.

I still struggled with thoughts of inadequacy and felt like others could tell I didn’t belong. But my friends were really considerate and said “ultimately the bar scene is about hanging with friends”, which I appreciated and enjoyed their company. I realized if I don’t put on myself pressure to perform, I could just hang, but that would be with *just* my friends and wouldn’t help to meet anyone.

I also came to the conclusion. I CAN go out with friends to hang with friends, but I really am not interested in the type of woman I’d be most likely to meet at a bar. A better match for me would be the type who drinks when out, but isn’t into the bar scene either.

So that was fine.

In June, on my wedding day, I fought to stay away from home as much as possible. I ran errands, did the gym, etc. I even agreed to go to a student’s grad party. There I was the guest of honor, because my students do love me. The moms quickly threw aunts, sisters, and nieces at me. One woman, “Andrea” really seemed chill. She’s my age, cute, fit, smart, and is an educator too. But I didn’t try anything, I was only a month post-breakup.

Well, last week I hit up Andrea. We went on a date. Her engagement and conversation was low, so I don’t think there was much interest. We ended the date early and I walked to her car, thanked her.

It was a lame date, but it was totally because she wasn’t into it. I was fine with it and happy to know I could do it.

A few days later, I arranged a date with “Savannah”. Savannah is VERY serious. She’s a doctor, she’s very motivated, direct. I even told her her online dating game needed work; she was way too short and blunt, a little rude even. She opened up after that and said that she appreciated I cared enough to burn the bridge for her sake.

Then conversation flowed.

We met and had a great date and learned we have a lot in common. Though I found she really truly is intensely serious and sounded really set in her ways and thoughts. I shared how one friend was struggling with something and she cut me off with a judgemental decision she thought he ought to make. She is a bit of a know it all.

That said, we agreed on Date 2.

The following day we texted and talked for a few hours on the phone. We went really deep. Although it’s a faux pax, I shared WHY I broke up. She dug a little, explaining she “doesn’t have room for drama if I’m not 100% ready.”

I told her honestly that “I don’t know how ready I am. Maybe 70-90%?” Then I took a deep breath and told her, everything. Everything I shared in this thread.

She understood and encouraged me. She appreciated the honesty and felt like we could continue fine. She shared her own past long term relationship.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 13, 2021)

But, the following day…

I was a horny hoe.

I messaged 4 women asking “are you down for now?” And was seeking a hook up.

Savannah is a respectable and smart woman, she knew better than to hook up.

I wanted sex.

Because I want to know what it can be like, I want evidence I can do it fine, I want to feel affirmed and wanted.

But that’s the lie: I know I would feel pressure to perform for myself, I know I would feel guilt and shame, I know all it would do is make me want more. I’d become a hoe.

So I deleted my dating apps. I deleted social media because I was shooting my shot in DMs too.

I confessed to Savannah and told her: “I am not 100%. Not even close.” I told her a second date wasn’t happening, as understanding as she was with me, she continued to be really judge mental and rude in conversation about others too.

I need to work on me before trying to find someone. I need to handle my dysmorphia, my sexual insecurity, and be okay with being single first.

It’s okay that I wanted sex, in fact, it’s progress. It means I’m less afraid of it. Between the life change of the relationship and the AAS, I’ve basically gone through puberty for the first time. They’re new thoughts that I’m not accustomed to having to reign in.

So this week, I return to work. I’ve spent 95% of my time post break up at home or the gym, because it has been summer. I’m grateful for the purpose again.

Im feeling a bit better, slowly.

As a side note, she made a comment about a guy passing by “you can super tell that guy is on roids. I can tell from a mile away. It’s gross.

*If this thread or “diary” offends your sensibilities, or what should or shouldn’t be online, or what should or shouldn’t be on a bodybuilding website: suck it.*

_Your masculinity isn’t threatened. Your gains are not impacted, your time isn’t wasted. Go somewhere else.

Im in therapy, Im broken and learning as I go. But sharing helps me process, and I am convinced 1 person eventually will find this and feel less alone._


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## MrBafner (Aug 13, 2021)

Chicks that call muscular guys gross are more into gardening or probably got screwed over by some guy. Don't take it to heart .. get the gross thing a few times, seriously, my dick or any other body part wouldn't go anywhere near them in any case. But it's nice they thought of you sexually enough to call you gross. Most dudes they wouldn't even recognise in a sexual manner.
As for not blowing your load .. happens some times and just go with it until she has had enough. Around an hour it gets really boring and just stop, and enjoy her - unless she wants more of course.
Sounds like your dating also has a bit too much pressue .. just ask one you like, that's single, out for coffee or something and talk, mostly listen, make a few jokes .. go for a walk. If she is into you, you might get her the following night.
I've been married for 25y and have instagrams ... I only post bodybuilding, food, weights, stuff .. often get messages from people. I think I'm helping them with advice, or answering their questions .. next minute you get pics and sex talk .. I really don't care, I have blocked a few as their just weird or dudes, yes .. dudes send dick picks or of their arsehole (instantly blocked).
If you just talk with them as you do a normal person that you meet .. they respond.
Here seom random from a girl that keeps sending me pics .. a couple of days ago.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 13, 2021)

Bafner,
That’s exactly it.

I put so much pressure on myself.
The relationship failed because she ADDED to that pressure rather than helping.

So I still feel that pressure and I’m working to overcome it. First by being okay with myself, my journey, my differences, etc.

I can’t and won’t expect a relationship or anything casual to help me, I need to do the work myself first.


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## MrBafner (Aug 13, 2021)

Well .. there is a good natural way to help you with that.
You don't go shopping on an empty stomach, right ?
You don't leave the house with a full ball sack full of jizz, it will screw you up. Rub one off when you wake and you will find you'll talk with girls a lot better. They can tell you're tense, your body movements will also tell.
Rubbing one off releases the tension, makes you more comfortable with yourself.


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## BrotherIron (Aug 13, 2021)

I personally think you just need to calm down and stop trying to hard.  Things will happen in time.  No need to put pressure on yourself.

Everything happens when you stop trying to force it.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 13, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> I personally think you just need to calm down and stop trying to hard.  Things will happen in time.  No need to put pressure on yourself.
> 
> Everything happens when you stop trying to force it.


I know man, I know that’s true.

Ive never been as hard on myself as I have been this past year. I’m usually extremely chill.

Literally it brought relief to my friends who said: “you usually handle everything with smiles and grace, it helps to see you are human”.

I need to be okay with being human and chill out. Which is why I need to pause on dating again.

Bafner is right too, I’m not going anywhere without some post-nut clarity.


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## The Phoenix (Aug 13, 2021)

That or just try going on a date with him.  You might discover something there that you never knew?  Stay away from drugs!   LULZ


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## transcend2007 (Aug 13, 2021)

I will admit to having not read all of this ... there is a reason most males go through this awkward stage in their teenage years ... it takes many years to gain sexual experience ... like becoming a master of anything ... it will take times time and effort ... 

The reality of your situation is you've  postponed getting started ... I'm sorry you're struggling now ... but knowing your in the beginning of a wonderful journey ... the fact you started late does not matter ... consider embracing the fact that you have sexual experience of 15 year old ... but the good news is you'll progress rapidly ...  and have fun ... 

Also stop thinking every woman has to be the one ... or every experience is going be a life altering ... it won't be ... Im in my mid 50's and have had thousands of sexual experience ... most of the ones in the 1st 5 years I look back and think what the fuck was I doing ... lol

Consider prioritizing sex differently than you do now ... think of it more like eating or working out ... it is a normal activity ... remove this massive pressure you're putting on yourself and learn to enjoy it ... when you're doing it right its way better than masterbating ...


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## TeddyBear (Aug 13, 2021)

transcend2007 said:


> I will admit to having not read all of this ... there is a reason most males go through this awkward stage in their teenage years ... it takes many years to gain sexual experience ... like becoming a master of anything ... it will take times time and effort ...
> 
> The reality of your situation is you've  postponed getting started ... I'm sorry you're struggling now ... but knowing your in the beginning of a wonderful journey ... the fact you started late does not matter ... consider embracing the fact that you have sexual experience of 15 year old ... but the good news is you'll progress rapidly ...  and have fun ...
> 
> ...


I wish. I can’t turn off my programming.
My faith matters to me, I think I’m called to aim for a higher standard.

I understand others don’t feel that way, I certainly think Christian purity culture goes too deep and far into shame territory. But it is what it is for me, it’s engrained. Combined with my fear.

Im excited and eager to explore and try. I just need to do so within the confines of a secure and committed relationship (maybe not married, though I think that’s what was intended for us).


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## The Phoenix (Aug 13, 2021)

You still awake brah?


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## 69nites (Aug 13, 2021)

On the plus side, at least you know premature ejaculation isn't going to be an issue.


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## Send0 (Aug 13, 2021)

dted23 said:


> But, the following day…
> 
> I was a horny hoe.
> 
> ...


Brother, I am so proud of you... I can't even properly put it into words. You are YEARS ahead of where I was at your age.

You are doing a great job focusing on being good with you, but also putting yourself out there at the same time. 

If someone had shared this with me in my mid 20's, then it would have helped me through some hard times. Thank you for sharing with everyone else, I'm sure it will help someone else having the same struggle as you.


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## Skullcrusher (Aug 13, 2021)

I got de-virginized from a blow job when I was 13.

I told her to swallow but she refused.

I ended up squirting about a gallon of jizz in her hair.

Didn't even have to ask her after that.


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## 1bigun11 (Aug 13, 2021)

Every once in a while we will get someone new on this board with a little dick, who supposedly wants to find out what steroids to take to make his dick bigger, but who mostly just seems to get off on publicly talking about his little dick.

When I was in addictions treatment they put a guy in our group who was supposedly addicted to masturbating.  Every time we went around the circle and it was his turn he would talk about how hard his struggle was, that he knew Jesus didn't approve and how sad Jesus was that he was sinning, but that he just couldn't help but touch himself, blah blah blah.

After a while it became clear that the guy wasn't just addicted to jerking off, but rather he was addicted to TELLING people that he jerked off and talking about sexual things, and about how hard he was trying for Jesus.  He got off on the telling of it to other people and trying to get their sympathy.  

But you know what? His struggle did not make him seem righteous. And it did not generate sympathy for him from the group because of his hard "Christian" struggle.  His struggle did not bring glory to Jesus.  If anything, it made Jesus look like a authoritarian wimp, keeping score,  who was powerless to help and offered no help whatever.  And it make this masturbating so-called follower of Jesus look like a dope.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 13, 2021)

1bigun11 said:


> Every once in a while we will get someone new on this board with a little dick, who supposedly wants to find out what steroids to take to make his dick bigger, but who mostly just seems to get off on publicly talking about his little dick.
> 
> When I was in addictions treatment they put a guy in our group who was supposedly addicted to masturbating.  Every time we went around the circle and it was his turn he would talk about how hard his struggle was, that he knew Jesus didn't approve and how sad Jesus was that he was sinning, but that he just couldn't help but touch himself, blah blah blah.
> 
> ...


Fair criticism. You are welcome to be more direct.

Sure, some of this is exhibitionist attention whoring.

But I’m learning as I go. My struggle is something I’ve placed on myself and I’m working through therapy to get the monkey off my back. It certainly wasn’t something God put on me.

Im sorry if this feels disingenuous or grandstanding. It’s not. I hope you could see how torn I’ve been. It’s been a hard year I don’t wish on anyone. I genuinely will get a hold of myself, and hopefully will report back on the growth and healing in a few months.

Its a personality flaw, but secrets (internalized) eat into me. I’ve had to share this with a few friends, but the anonymity here helps.


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## The Phoenix (Aug 14, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Fair criticism. You are welcome to be more direct.
> 
> Sure, some of this is exhibitionist attention whoring.
> 
> ...


Everyone needs a little advice.  We shouldn't be judgemental or think of it as attention getting, which can be discerned.


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## GreatGunz (Aug 14, 2021)

My man you gotta chill and let ur guard down,You want to marry this woman meaning have to trust her an allow ur self to be vulnerable to her……….

Lemme tell u if she knows her business you’ll be stuck to the ceiling,An she’ll have a hole in her head (MASTERONE liquid PORN a star)…..


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## GreatGunz (Aug 14, 2021)

Bro,when u go to bed an close your eyes ,Does your thought process take off,thought after thought?


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## TeddyBear (Aug 14, 2021)

GreatGunz said:


> Bro,when u go to bed an close your eyes ,Does your thought process take off,thought after thought?


No, I’m real good about “sleep hygiene” which means you only use your bed/bedroom for sleep. Trains the brain.

I minimize screen time, exercise, and food the hours before bed. I typically read for 30 minutes to unwind and promptly pass out.

I pass out and sleep deeply BECAUSE I wear myself out mentally during the day. Always have, generally it’s not stress, as a kid it was that I was really creative and imaginative. I’d make stuff, draw, write, etc, I wasnt hyper-active, just cerebral.

Its only been like 3 days since my last crash, but I’m on the upswing for sure.


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## GreatGunz (Aug 14, 2021)

I only ask,Because I have sleep issues,Even on meds I can only sleep 3-3.5 hrs before I wake up.I’m on Wellbutrin to keep my temper/ an thoughts from racing (“watching tv in ur head”) or constant thought until you fall asleep with very broken sleep…Which in turn causes anxiety and my anxiety is a great one….”Anxiety induced anger disorder “….I only related this for possible symptoms and an example of such.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 22, 2021)

I didn’t live up to the standard I set for myself. I didn’t practice self control.

I lost my virginity yesterday.

Casual Tinder fling. I knew what I was doing and did it anyways against my better judgement.

I have 50% forgiven myself, I feel a lot of ways about it. I’m pretty emotional today.

Pros:
+ I had no performance anxiety because I warned in advance
+ I feel a lot of relief, it’s done
+ I could be in the moment
+ I was told I did a good job
+ Someone wanted me
+ It's done, I proved I could do it
+ I'm not any different now, no one would know

Cons:
-I can't take it back
-I didn't practice the self control I said I would
-I want to be better, I don’t know that this was the right choice


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## Skullcrusher (Aug 22, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I didn’t live up to the standard I set for myself. I didn’t practice self control.
> 
> I lost my virginity yesterday.
> 
> ...


Now you can become a professional cockslinger.


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## 1bigun11 (Aug 22, 2021)

Dude you were fighting 2 million years of human evolution and God’s first commandment to “Go forth and multiply” ie. “Go forth and fuck!”  You did it! Now go have a beer bro, and then find some other chick who isn’t married and do it again!!

Soloman had a thousand wives and ten-thousand concubines and God never scolded him for fucking them. He’s not pissed at you. Be kind to yourself..,


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## TeddyBear (Aug 22, 2021)

1bigun11 said:


> Dude you were fighting 2 million years of human evolution and God’s first commandment to “Go forth and multiply” ie. “Go forth and fuck!”  You did it! Now go have a beer bro, and then find some other chick who isn’t married and do it again!!
> 
> Soloman had a thousand wives and ten-thousand concubines and God never scolded him for fucking them. He’s not pissed at you. Be kind to yourself..,


I’ll try. It’s a real mixed bag emotionally. I put a lot of pressure on myself to live and act a certain way.
Hopefully tomorrow I’ll feel more peace. But I’m at 50% there.


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## 1bigun11 (Aug 22, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I’ll try. It’s a real mixed bag emotionally. I put a lot of pressure on myself to live and act a certain way.
> Hopefully tomorrow I’ll feel more peace. But I’m at 50% there.


Dude, even when you were “succeeding” at this you were miserable. Stop doing it to yourself! 

You remind me of a frustrated guy pushing and pushing on a door with a sign on it. Pushing and pushing with all his might, pushing and getting incredibly frustrated.  A guy who is surrounded by a crowd of people who care about him, 

a crowd who just wants to point out to him—that the sign says “Pull.”


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## TeddyBear (Aug 23, 2021)

1bigun11 said:


> Dude, even when you were “succeeding” at this you were miserable. Stop doing it to yourself!
> 
> You remind me of a frustrated guy pushing and pushing on a door with a sign on it. Pushing and pushing with all his might, pushing and getting incredibly frustrated.  A guy who is surrounded by a crowd of people who care about him,
> 
> a crowd who just wants to point out to him—that the sign says “Pull.”


I feel that way too, and don’t understand why I have such a hard time.

Im trying to figure it out. Thanks for caring.


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## The Phoenix (Aug 23, 2021)

You should be honest with yourself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## CohibaRobusto (Aug 23, 2021)

Sexual development is an important part of maturation in my opinion. It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's one of the most enjoyable,  activities humans can engage in.

I hope you stop beating yourself up dude; glad you got the first one over with! It get's way better.


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## 69nites (Aug 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I didn’t live up to the standard I set for myself. I didn’t practice self control.
> 
> I lost my virginity yesterday.
> 
> ...


I'm proud of you. Now that you're a cockslinger remember, if you nut on their face, no bastard offspring will live in disgrace.

Really though, religiously it's just another sin you committed on that particular day. No more or less significant than any of the others.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 24, 2021)

I had a second different hookup today.
I may feel differently tomorrow, I might feel some shame for going full crazy.
But today, I think I feel MORE relief.

Saturday, I felt a ton. I felt really strongly, a complicated mix of emotions. But like I said, 50% of it was huge relief.

Today, I felt: nothing. I didn't feel like I was using her, I didn't feel wrong persay. But I didn't feel much at all.

In fact, I was less enthusiastic and quicker to just leave.

So why relief: because I don't feel like I need to do this again. I think (could be post-nut clarity brain) that it's out of my system.

Ive gotten over that bridge.

Then I went over the bridge a second time to see how much of it was simply the relief. Turns out half of the fun was just getting it over with.

I don't know. I don't know how I'll feel. For now, I have zero further interest in hookups.

I'm certainly NOT ready to be dating or even looking again. I definitely need to chill. My healing isn't done. My growth isn't.

I'm a mess in general. But...

I'm rambling. I'm done for the night. I haven't eaten or drank anything since lunch. I stink and need a shower.


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## CohibaRobusto (Aug 24, 2021)

dted23 said:


> For now, I have zero further interest in hookups.
> 
> I'm certainly NOT ready to be dating or even looking again. I definitely need to chill.


Post-nut clarity.

The itch will return soon enough young padawan.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 25, 2021)

*Positive:*
I was about to delete the dating apps, telling myself to move on and focus on myself. But came across this cutie. She's gorgeous with her blonde hair, hot with red. But even more so, she just seems happy. I reached out, flirted a little, and we have been talking the past two days over text message. She knows some of my friends from college, we both checked in and we're given the thumbs up for approval. They think we'd be a match. Beyond that, she was a children's pastor at a church out of town and is new in town, here. She's a social worker who throws an annual prom for young adults with down syndrome and other disabilities. She has foster cared for four children. She's immensely courageous, faithful, and compassionate.

I shared with her some of my baggage and explained that I'm kind of a hot mess, but we both agreed we might like each other enough to meet anyways. So we have a date set for Saturday. We agreed, even if it isn't romance, we have similar enough hearts that I could introduce her to people around town and help her make connections to new friends.

*Negative:*
I am really saddened by how _LITTLE _I feel. My second hookup was so meaningless and empty. I'm disappointed in how quickly I cheapened the experience. It was something I built up for so long and now I care so little for it. I have no interest or desire further right now. It brings me no joy. I'm also kind of sad that it brings so much less guilt than I anticipated too.

The stress has impacted my workouts, I've skipped 4 in the past week. 2 on days of the hookups, 1 due to work, 1 due to no motivation. I'm down 9lbs in the past 5 days, even though I was trying to bulk last week, even though I'm meal prepping and eating.

I feel so numb. I'm tired. I haven't felt like myself in months. I put on a show every day because I don't want others to worry about me, and they deserve my full effort and attention. I'm tired of every conversation I have with friends turning deep and heavy.


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## CohibaRobusto (Aug 25, 2021)

New prospect sounds like a gem.

There's all kinds of sex dude. There's random hookups, meaningful sex, sex you do for your partner when you don't feel like it just because they want it, sex they'll give you when they don't feel like it just because you want it, vanilla sex, kinky sex. In my life we've laughed and cried during sex, argued and talked during sex, watched movies while we fucked, and even fucked other people together.

Those random hookups weren't healthy for you, maybe they never will be or maybe one day you'll have a crazy hot random hookup that you'll remember for the rest of your life. You never know what's around the corner. Enjoy.


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## Send0 (Aug 25, 2021)

dted23 said:


> *Positive:*
> I was about to delete the dating apps, telling myself to move on and focus on myself. But came across this cutie. She's gorgeous with her blonde hair, hot with red. But even more so, she just seems happy. I reached out, flirted a little, and we have been talking the past two days over text message. She knows some of my friends from college, we both checked in and we're given the thumbs up for approval. They think we'd be a match. Beyond that, she was a children's pastor at a church out of town and is new in town, here. She's a social worker who throws an annual prom for young adults with down syndrome and other disabilities. She has foster cared for four children. She's immensely courageous, faithful, and compassionate.
> 
> I shared with her some of my baggage and explained that I'm kind of a hot mess, but we both agreed we might like each other enough to meet anyways. So we have a date set for Saturday. We agreed, even if it isn't romance, we have similar enough hearts that I could introduce her to people around town and help her make connections to new friends.
> ...


This new girl sounds incredible! Go for it, you deserve someone good like that. These are the kind of girls I really dig!

Regarding feeling nothing from your 2nd encounter... I wish I could relate with your feelings here. What I mean is that I'm atheist, but I consider myself a moral person... I'm a boring straight arrow (mostly). If the other person doesn't feel used or bad, then I have no reason to beat myself up or criticize my own behavior... it means we were both there for the same reason. I can't help but think part of your feelings are due to what/how the good book says you should go about having sex.

In my opinion, if you aren't hurting people mentally/emotionally/physically... then you've done nothing wrong, and have nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm sure you will see it different because our beliefs are complete opposite of one another; and I can understand and respect that, however if it means anything to you then this atheist thinks you are a great person who is seeking to both grow as a person and to form a romantic connection.

Don't beat yourself up... instead lift yourself up!


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## TeddyBear (Aug 27, 2021)

*Guys, I’m aware I’m drama. I’m very acutely aware that I am not doing well at all. I’m dropping weight even on NPP and Test, even while eating. My stress is impacting me really poorly.

In the chat box I explained I doubled-down and had a second hook up. Turns out both girls were friends and knew each other. Both felt lied to because I said I wasn’t going to hookup again. Apparently they casually compared notes and realized they were with the same guy; me. They called me a liar, toxic, and a hoe. They’re right. I was wrongS

Wednesday was the first anniversary of my dads passing…I didn’t even *call* my mom until late because I was so distracted. I’m floundering even despite the therapy.*

I just have to reorient so much of my identity, mind, heart, etc.

I had so much pressure on myself.

I believed so strongly in waiting until marriage. I passed up so much.

To toss my virginity away, so casually, provides relief but also devalues the time I waited: because my waiting didn’t mean anything.

Not only did I wait, I waited for nothing, and I didn’t even wait all the way.

I was engaged and I said “no”.
I was that committed. (Granted I saw the rails coming to an end at that point and thought it was the emotionally responsible Thing to do.)

Then I broke down now.

It seems so callous, pointless, meaningless.

This thing I’ve been told matters, that it binds people, that it’s important. Is so meaningless and empty. I feel no different aside from knowing that my waiting meant nothing.

*I need to reorient my whole sense of self and identity. Because I haven’t felt happy in months, haven’t felt secure, haven’t felt like myself.

It’s not just a sense of shame, but of dissatisfaction and sadness. I’m really questioning a lot of things, what really matters.*

I can’t turn my brain off. I can’t read, can’t game, I have to force myself to eat. I’m not about to add other vices to my tableau of disappointment; because I clearly can’t handle it.

Ive lived a life of control and saying “no”. I said “yes” so carelessly here and I can’t convey why it hurts so much.

I know none of this makes sense to any of you. That further deepens my sense of isolation, because no one believed I had waited either.

Im going to bed. But I feel so tormented by my sense of failure.

On Saturday I have a date with that really great girl. I hope I treat her well, with respect, that I behave like myself, and feel like myself.

I had to get rid of the dating apps. One girl I told:
“I’m sorry for not responding. I wasn’t in the right headspace. I was looking for a hookup and didn’t even read your bio. That’s disrespectful and I know better.

I wish you luck in finding someone who will treat you right, because that’s not me right now.”

Her response:
“Thanks for your honesty, I’d love to hook up when you’re ready.”

That, that is tempting; but I need to get my head on straight first. Otherwise i


----------



## bubbagump (Aug 27, 2021)

Overthinking will fk up a good time every time....   
Once you have a complex it's hard to shake it.   Expectations that rely on imagination  vs experience don't work all that well when other people are involved. And once you get in your head about it ...    It's like the cartoon where rhey are in a boat and it keeps spring leaks so they put thheir finger in the hoke.   Then another leak.   Then another til their fingers and toes are all plugging holes and the boat is still sinking.    That's how I feel when im in my head or trying to get thru a complex, especially sex related.      One thing leads to the next leads to the next to the next.    My advice, go play golf. Lift. Work, drink a beer.   Don't put so much stock into one thing.  It will balance out eventually.


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## The Phoenix (Aug 27, 2021)

dted23 said:


> *Positive:*
> I was about to delete the dating apps, telling myself to move on and focus on myself. But came across this cutie. She's gorgeous with her blonde hair, hot with red. But even more so, she just seems happy. I reached out, flirted a little, and we have been talking the past two days over text message. She knows some of my friends from college, we both checked in and we're given the thumbs up for approval. They think we'd be a match. Beyond that, she was a children's pastor at a church out of town and is new in town, here. She's a social worker who throws an annual prom for young adults with down syndrome and other disabilities. She has foster cared for four children. She's immensely courageous, faithful, and compassionate.
> 
> I shared with her some of my baggage and explained that I'm kind of a hot mess, but we both agreed we might like each other enough to meet anyways. So we have a date set for Saturday. We agreed, even if it isn't romance, we have similar enough hearts that I could introduce her to people around town and help her make connections to new friends.
> ...



But deep & heavy conversations are the kind you have with friends. If you wanted superficial talk, talk to all the noobs in your gym and show them how to train. The fact that you are more intimate about your feelings on here than you are with your friends is the fact that you know we don’t know you;  yet you find it easy to share deep feelings with strangers. I don’t understand why you are doing this to yourself. You may want to consider seeing a sociologist or talk to someone if your friends can’t be trusted. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Janoy Cresva (Aug 27, 2021)

Don't watch porn


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## The Phoenix (Aug 27, 2021)

Janoy Cresva said:


> Don't watch porn



And say “No” to drugs, (unless it’s TRT/AAS)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Puff2Tuff (Aug 27, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I’m 29, and I’ve been pretty sheltered and chaste my whole life.
> 
> Some of it was 90’s church sex-scare tactics; but also legitimately me deciding as an adult to wait on sex until marriage.
> 
> ...


In my experience ones mental state can interfere with our physical urges. I have a friend who doesn’t like to be touched but with me it’s fine. He rarely cums but I think it has to do with where his mind is at more than me. Sometimes our heads really screw things up. I am happy she is patient with you that at least should put you a little more at ease.

Don’t stress it the more comfortable you get with your fiancé the easier physical intimacy will come. Not saying you were traumatized in anyway but from my own past and my friends, we both have traumatic experiences surrounding sex and it took us a while to let our guard down. Don’t be discouraged you are still building that trust with her.


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## Puff2Tuff (Aug 27, 2021)

And stop with the randoms they are only a temporary fix and will make you feel more like shit.


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## The Phoenix (Aug 27, 2021)

Puff2Tuff said:


> In my experience ones mental state can interfere with our physical urges. I have a friend who doesn’t like to be touched but with me it’s fine. He rarely cums but I think it has to do with where his mind is at more than me. Sometimes our heads really screw things up. I am happy she is patient with you that at least should put you a little more at ease.
> 
> Don’t stress it the more comfortable you get with your fiancé the easier physical intimacy will come. Not saying you were traumatized in anyway but from my own past and my friends, we both have traumatic experiences surrounding sex and it took us a while to let our guard down. Don’t be discouraged you are still building that trust with]
> 
> ***10 count


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## Puff2Tuff (Aug 27, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Your friend? He rarely cums? He lets you touch him? But no one else? LOL - did I hear you right? You mashed up all your thoughts; it just didn’t read right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


You read it right ha we are weird


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## The Phoenix (Aug 27, 2021)

Puff2Tuff said:


> You read it right ha we are weird


LOL, it read right once I read your profile


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## TeddyBear (Aug 29, 2021)

Had that first date today.
She was nice.
But a tiny bit of a catfish with her pictures.
I learned a lot of little things that don’t SUPER matter, but I’m addition to being a bigger girl than expected (I prefer petite latinas; she’s an Irish girl) they add up.

She:
-has a lot of dietary and health restrictions
-doesn’t currently work, went back to school
-wants to foster kids again ASAP
-wants to move back to Los Angeles
-doesn’t like reading (dyslexic) or movies (ADHD)
-is real big into watching baseball
-doesn’t like to exercise

All of that doesn’t super matter individually, but together makes me think that while we have similar hearts for serving children and our community, our shared interests and priorities end there.

I thanked her, agreed to show her around town, but realized I never complimented her. I was sure to not suggest we do a follow up.

*More importantly, I felt comfortable in my own skin; confident, kind, acted like myself. I reaffirmed Im capable of going on a date without shrinking into self-doubt or thinking like a crazed horn-dog. I wasn’t sure whether I could trust myself to avoid either and I did.

May be too soon to say, but I may have my mojo back.*


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## 69nites (Aug 29, 2021)

No job and wants to foster again ASAP? She's a professional foster parent. Run as quickly as you can.


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## TeddyBear (Aug 29, 2021)

69nites said:


> No job and wants to foster again ASAP? She's a professional foster parent. Run as quickly as you can.


Out of context, it sounds like that.
With respect to her: as soon as she’s working again. Her previous career was fine without an education (she worked in ministry).

 Given her learning disabilities she doesn’t expect to be able to manage let alone pay for the kids while in school.

My concern; while I could learn to love foster kids, I don’t want to manage them while dating.

Genuinely, it’s something she does with compassion; not for the money.

Regardless, it’s something she will do without me. The attraction wasn’t there, and that’s okay. She’s a nice girl I was happy to meet.


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## Send0 (Aug 29, 2021)

Bro, so glad this date helped you get your head straight!


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## TeddyBear (Sep 14, 2021)

*Summary: I’m doing better this week. I’m accepting my shortcomings, limitations, and humanity. I’ll aim for self-control and obedience to the standards I want to follow.

Im less anxious, still sensitive, but recognize I’m not defined by any of these struggles. I’m still who I have been and can make room for positive self-thinking again.*

Just wanted to say:
Today I felt 50% better compared to the last month.

Much of the anxiety has ebbed.

I’ve now told nearly everyone who matters. From there, since I don’t plan on changing my behaviors, appearance, interests, or personality, it’s not like anything is different.

Really, I had to accept that. I’m not different than I was, it was already there. I’m still me.

I wasn’t a liar, I just didn’t know. I wasn’t hiding, it’s not others business and still isn’t. I don’t need to tell everyone or come out, it’s my privacy.

I told people because; I can’t keep a secret (they eat at me, I deeply value being authentic and honest). I needed to be loved, because I felt unfit for love. I needed support. But I also told people because I wanted condemnation I felt I deserved for my actions. I broke my rules and I expected consequences.

I’m still tired. It was a lot to handle. I’m not done navigating it yet.

But I feel quite a bit better.

I am going to navigate the future without beating myself up or trying to punish myself for my perceived self shortcomings.

I am still a good, responsible, loving person.

I acknowledge that right now my skin is really thin, I’m really sensitive. But I’m going to take better care of myself, nourish myself, rest, and chill.

I currently will not drink. It’s still a standard I hold for myself, but I wouldn’t be breaking it for growth, I’d be breaking it because I’m grasping for anyway to feel a sense of normalcy and belonging.

Feeling different stinks. It’s a fear that I’ll be alone as a result someday. It’s irrational, but there. For now, focusing on me means not complicating how I feel.

But I’m doing better. First therapy session without tears in months.

I’m gonna be okay.


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## weightlossburn (Sep 14, 2021)

dted23 said:


> *Guys, I’m aware I’m drama. I’m very acutely aware that I am not doing well at all. I’m dropping weight even on NPP and Test, even while eating. My stress is impacting me really poorly.
> 
> In the chat box I explained I doubled-down and had a second hook up. Turns out both girls were friends and knew each other. Both felt lied to because I said I wasn’t going to hookup again. Apparently they casually compared notes and realized they were with the same guy; me. They called me a liar, toxic, and a hoe. They’re right. I was wrongS
> 
> ...


The first NC-17 movie I have ever seen was this classic called Orgazmo created by a then young South Park creators. @JakeRuss91 triggered my memory of this movie.  I can picture you playing the role of stunt cock for @dted23 sex scenes from his date.


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## The Phoenix (Sep 14, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Bro, so glad this date helped you get your head straight!



…no pun intended. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TeddyBear (Oct 18, 2021)

*This is my 1,000th post.*
I don't know where I fall on the sexuality spectrum, but it's definitely leaning closer to _gay_.

*Recap:*
I don't want to diminish this thread. Honestly, I still believe that a lot of my issues stemmed from:

Stress: there was a lot going on in my life. A lot of pressure and responsibility.
Inexperience: I didn't know that sex has a bit of a learning curve and my expectations didn't match reality.
Performance Anxiety: some of which is natural, some of which was due to my waiting for as long as I did, and _a LOT of which_ was placed on me by my partner.
Personal Hangups: I was scared. I spent a lot of time worrying, wondering, and waiting. I had really strong standards set by my Christian faith and I wanted to live obediently. I felt that this was not.
Discussing here, with friends, and with a therapist really revealed a lot of these issues weren't because I was failing as a man, but because I was failing *MY OWN CONCEPT* of what I thought it meant to be a man.

*Revelations the Past Month:*
I stopped trying to date in September. I stopped because in August I lost my virginity, to a man.

I was deeply ashamed and felt so much guilt and anguish. I felt like I had irreparably dirtied myself and could never be forgiven. I couldn't forgive myself, so God wouldn't be able to either, was my deluded thinking.

For weeks, I lost my appetite and sleep. I basically developed an eating disorder. I isolated and grieved my perceived loss of innocence, the failure of my righteousness, and the desecration of my manhood. I was certain that I was a hypocrite, a liar, a fool, and a hoe.

I hated myself. I was convinced I was a burden to those around me, that I offered nothing, and I received only pity or sympathy when friends reached out due to obligation.

I told some friends and expected condemnation or outrage. I expected confusion and frustration. I wanted to be the outcast I felt I deserved to be. Instead, they loved me. They pulled me tight and told me it changes nothing: I am still loved, I am honest, I am brave, I am a man of character, compassion, and a good friend. That I wouldn't be thrown out, because I am too valued to lose.

Then I realized, I needed to forgive myself, because God certainly already has. I always believed He loves everyone and forgives the worst among us, how was I suddenly worse than that? So I started to forgive myself.

Yes, I became a bit of a hoe. I found that men are very easy online. Men want sex, they're very available. I learned that I'm a hot commodity and in that sweet spot: not too big/little, young/old, hairy/bare, white/tan.

It made going from virgin to sexually active a VERY VERY difficult shift. I needed to very quickly regain self-control. So I did. I removed myself from that environment and put in more safeguards to ensure I don't sink back into that.

I couldn't find my manhood in my previous relationships and I certainly won't through hookups.

*Now and the Future:*
So now, I am reevaluating aspects of my life where I said "no". Did I say "no" out of fear? To be pious? To self-deny? Or because it legitimately was a bad idea for me?

Alcohol? I said that was something I wrestled with: it's not for me. Just isn't.
Tattoo? I'm still thinking about it, I may go through with it. Show to myself and the world, I'm not chained to my previous self-conception.

What will I do now? With this newfound sexuality?

I don't know. I know that I am *intensely* more sexual now and the attraction I feel towards men has intensified a lot. I went from feeling like a 10% attraction to women, 5% to men, and 85% disinterest to more like 5%, 85%, 10%.

But I haven't reconciled it to my faith and desire to be obedient. I am gay by God's design, but following His will for me may take some more effort. Maybe, things will change.

I will figure it out.

But right now, I feel really free. I don't feel strangled by my fears or insecurities anymore. I've got some new buds that I've been able to fool around with on a consistent basis, but I need to wind those down.

I don't know what comes next, but I will update as needed. 

Thanks, brothers, especially those who took the DM's and text messages when I was struggling.


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## Trump (Oct 18, 2021)

dted23 said:


> *This is my 1,000th post.*
> 
> *Recap:*
> I don't know where I fall on the sexuality spectrum, but it's definitely leaning closer to _gay_.
> ...


Good for you you should be proud of yourself, there is no shame in being gay. Be you and not what anyone else thinks you should be. Get after that sausage


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## Yano (Oct 18, 2021)

Shine on you crazy diamond ! , Be your self , be comfortable in who you are and will become. Shouldn't matter to any one that's truly on your side what or who you do in your bedroom or car or on the dinning room table ,, get freaky. God wants people to love each other and be loved and take care of one another , I honestly don't think he worries much about what we do with our junk. I'm glad I met ya.


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## Trump (Oct 18, 2021)

Ha ha the UG secret anti gay league will be bleaching there eyes after reading about all the cock you been getting


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## CJ (Oct 18, 2021)

Trump said:


> Ha ha the UG secret anti gay league will be bleaching there eyes after reading about all the cock you been getting


Fukk them all.... Not literally though. 🤔


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 18, 2021)

Finally got it in the ass I see .
Congrats


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## The Phoenix (Oct 18, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Finally got it in the ass I see .
> Congrats



He got in the end, I see (no pun intended). I prefer @Trump ‘s “He’s  100% a bender”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TomJ (Oct 18, 2021)

Right on brother, gotta find your pride if gays the way. 

It's 2021, if your friends, family, or loved ones think less of you for it then they are the ones wrong, bit you. 

Go watch the "Mac finds his pride" episode of it's always sunny. Might be a bit therapeutic and give a few laughs at the same time. 



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## CohibaRobusto (Oct 18, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Discussing here, with friends, and with a therapist really revealed a lot of these issues weren't because I was failing as a man, but because I was failing *MY OWN CONCEPT* of what I thought it meant to be a man.


This is what I've been hoping you would see right here. You said it. 

It still sounds like you are hanging onto a lot of conceptions that about life and self that are making things tough for you though.

Stay in therapy

Read _The Ethical Slut_, it will tell you everything you need to know about having healthy sexual relationships.

Enjoy your sex life, and practice safe sex.


----------



## weightlossburn (Oct 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I don't know where I fall on the sexuality spectrum, but it's definitely leaning closer to _gay_.
> 
> In August I lost my virginity, to a man.



Hopefully, these snippets of your post helps answer your spectrum question.  If not, you sent pictures of yourself in underwear to a male dominated forum for your 30th birthday.

I believe the Bible wants people to have sex only for the specific reason to reproduce.  Do I feel dirty when I pull out or fornicate with my wife on birth control?  I don't.  Do I feel dirty when I pull out and ejaculate on her face?  That was a trick question, that shit only happens in the movies.

Is there a God?  I believe so.  Is much of the Bible possibly written to control and continue reproduction of society.  It's possible.  But if so, some of the Bible's teaching appear outdated.

The Holy Bible happened to be written before assisted reproductive technology and surrogacy.  Oh and btw, those fertility treatments are religiously immoral.  So struggling parents should feel dirty if they can't have kids naturally and have to struggle financially, medically, and emotionally with no guarantee to do so?

But go ahead and 2nd guess your desires, so you can make these leaders happy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States

You are a teacher and you do volunteer work.  You are well respected and have many friends in the forum. Those are the true ideals of Christianity.  Unfortunately, much of the Bible and the church is swimming in hypocrisy.


----------



## weightlossburn (Oct 19, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> This is what I've been hoping you would see right here. You said it.
> 
> It still sounds like you are hanging onto a lot of conceptions that about life and self that are making things tough for you though.
> 
> ...


Seriously, STDs don't discriminate.  They love hos.


----------



## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

I think the overall point here is be mindful of what you post; not for other's sake, but for your own.  Like I said in the past, the more you put out there, the more you give people an impression of who you are, which is not the issue.  The question is what kind of light are you shining.  If you are gonna be gay, find that monogamous partner before you give away the rosebud to everyone.  Ask yourself, how would it sound if a lady said this?  Yeah, you can still be a guy and be gay, it's just not as flattering as you think it might be.  Just be classy about who and what you do.


----------



## TeddyBear (Oct 19, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I think the overall point here is be mindful of what you post; not for other's sake, but for your own.  Like I said in the past, the more you put out there, the more you give people an impression of who you are, which is not the issue.  The question is what kind of light are you shining.  If you are gonna be gay, find that monogamous partner before you give away the rosebud to everyone.  Ask yourself, how would it sound if a lady said this?  Yeah, you can still be a guy and be gay, it's just not as flattering as you think it might be.  Just be classy about who and what you do.


I understand your sentiment.

I want to honestly do better, which means being transparent about the mistakes I made.

I’m not condoning or sanctioning what I’ve done. I wouldn’t tell young adults to the same extent at all, but to the men here: yeah, I’ve made mistakes.

This thread has been really transparent from the beginning. As always, my intention was catharsis, but also knowing someday someone may find encouragement here for their struggle.


----------



## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I understand your sentiment.
> 
> I want to honestly do better, which means being transparent about the mistakes I made.
> 
> ...


I was in no means being critical, and I apologize if i came across as thus.  I wanted to be encouraging; sometimes being reserved is a man's best approach to dealing with his issues.

Edit: I know I can apply tough love, but we're all guys here (and some ladies of course) and I think we are all adults and can be forthright with each other.


----------



## TeddyBear (Oct 19, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Hopefully, these snippets of your post helps answer your spectrum question.  If not, you sent pictures of yourself in underwear to a male dominated forum for your 30th birthday.


I understand where you’re coming from, but I think as someone who is still figuring out, it isn’t as clean cut as you may think as an outsider looking in.

One action doesn’t define someone to the extent it appears your statement suggests. Could be I fully found myself disinterested after that instance.

Also, yes, I was in speedo briefs in my pictures. But that’s also not that far off from posing trunks anyways…speedo(s) I had for a Thailand honeymoon that didn’t happen. So again, out of context.

But I get what you’re saying.

It was easy for me to deny the signs when I didn’t want to see it.

Edited;
For instance.
I told my best friend and he said “dude, we’ve been friends since we were kids. You NEVER talked about a girl, I knew and waited for you to figure it out. Not the way you acted, but the way you didn’t act.”

Or the fact that I may have found werewolves to be the most interesting movie monster, or that Bond was more fascinating to me than the Bond girls, or that as I was maturing I took note of the actors my age and how they were maturing.

It all seemed normal to me, but in retrospect wasn’t. I never did the playing with dolls, or wearing heels, or other stereotypical “should have seen the warning signs”. So I assumed I just was thinking the same as everyone else.

Like we can all agree Megan Fox fixing Bumblebee in Transformers is ridiculously hot, but i more thought she was hot and never even slightly thought I want to see more.


----------



## TeddyBear (Oct 19, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I was in no means being critical, and I apologize if i came across as thus.  I wanted to be encouraging; sometimes being reserved is a man's best approach to dealing with his issues.
> 
> Edit: I know I can apply tough love, but we're all guys here (and some ladies of course) and I think we are all adults and can be forthright with each other.


I couldn’t tell your tone, but assumed you were being encouraging. Thanks. I hope you can tell I’m not hurt either.


----------



## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I understand where you’re coming from, but I think as someone who is still figuring out, it isn’t as clean cut as you may think as an outsider looking in.
> 
> One action doesn’t define someone to the extent it appears your statement suggests. Could be I fully found myself disinterested after that instance.
> 
> ...


You've come a long way in your improvement of your physique and by no means found your posing trunks gay.  For someone to say that, might have it lingering in the back of their mind - kindly nuturing and entertaining the thought, perhaps almost encourage by the fact that you are going through this.  In either case, it's not a fair judgement on their part because they know not you nor your story.  Sorry, I wasn't gonna let that one pass.  You don't mean anyone wrong and and shouldn't be judged like that.  I know you better.


----------



## TeddyBear (Oct 19, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> You've come a long way in your improvement of your physique and by no means found your posing trunks gay.  For someone to say that, might have it lingering in the back of their mind - kindly nuturing and entertaining the thought, perhaps almost encourage by the fact that you are going through this.  In either case, it's not a fair judgement on their part because they know not you nor your story.  Sorry, I wasn't gonna let that one pass.  You don't mean anyone wrong and and shouldn't be judged like that.  I know you better.


@weightlossburn, I don’t think you meant any beef. I didn’t take it that way.

But defensively, I’ll say I didn’t have ulterior motives beyond positive celebration of my growth. I don’t think you insinuated that either.

Certainly not gayer than half the crap we say to each other here, but that’s because it’s still good fun to poke and prod each other (no homo).


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## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> @weightlossburn, I don’t think you meant any beef. I didn’t take it that way.
> 
> But defensively, I’ll say I didn’t have ulterior motives beyond positive celebration of my growth. I don’t think you insinuated that either.
> 
> Certainly not gayer than half the crap we say to each other here, but that’s because it’s still good fun to poke and prod each other (no homo).


You are the better man; a better man than me.  Very diplomatic.  I'm not too sharp....but I can move a lot of heavy weight around alot.

Edit:  Pro'ly the switch to nandrolone that makes me hype up


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## Gibsonator (Oct 19, 2021)

We've gone over this many times bud.
Ultimately it's something you need to talk to a therapist about.
Best of luck brother.


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## Gibsonator (Oct 19, 2021)

I replied but looks like it went to page 2 so I may have responded to an old comment, if so, disregard.


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## weightlossburn (Oct 19, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> If not, you sent pictures of yourself in underwear to a male dominated forum for your 30th birthday.


No beef at all.  It's my awkward sense of humor.  Maybe it's because of the way I was raised, but poking a little harmless fun at someone is my version of being friendly in a funny way.  Were you offended?



dted23 said:


> It all seemed normal to me, but in retrospect wasn’t.


It is normal.  You can use words like unique or different, but you should never insinuate that it's not "normal".

I believe there are more heterosexual people than homosexual people, but I would definitely not say that it's rare.  There are more right handed people than left handed people.  But we don't question the normalcy of lefties.


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## blundig (Oct 19, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> I don't relate at all sorry brother!
> 
> I was expelled from Kindergarten for not leaving girl's alone and stocking them out all day to see whom I'll nap with at nap time, true story!
> 
> ...


That will help.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I know. We BOTH expected I’d bust immediately.
> so 30 minutes later we were both bummed.
> 
> Yes, I was worried about the premarital sex bit, I think a part of me always will, but I feel okay about that now. It doesn’t change my faith or our relationship with God.



All of this in retrospect. Wow! 🥸


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## Adzg (Oct 19, 2021)

Mate physical touch to me is very weird due to growing up without it from both parents because it wasn’t “manly” 
I sometimes have days where my kids grabbing at my arms annoys me a lot. Definitely not an easy thing to deal with. 


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## MisterSuperGod (Oct 19, 2021)

Wow. This was a great read. You seem like a really good dude, @dted23 . Your openness and honesty will no doubt be something that your future partner will adore you for.


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## weightlossburn (Oct 19, 2021)

MisterSuperGod said:


> Wow. This was a great read. You seem like a really good dude, @dted23 . Your openness and honesty will no doubt be something that your future partner will adore you for.


Here the time @MisterSuperGod was in a movie


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## Adrenolin (Oct 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> _In the chat box I explained I doubled-down and had a second hook up. Turns out both girls were friends and knew each other. Both felt lied to because I said I wasn’t going to hookup again. Apparently they casually compared notes and realized they were with the same guy; me. They called me a liar, toxic, and a hoe. They’re right. I was wrongS_


Honestly, who gives a shit. You may be a liar and possibly a hoe to your standards or theirs (not mine), but you yourself aren't toxic. A hook up is a not something bound by rules and regulations.. you weren't dating these controlling women. Typically quick hookups are no strings attached,  test driving the car before you decide if you want to buy it. 

Stop being such a cuck and allowing your "faith" and other's feelings to objectify who you are and who you should or need to be. Religion can be extremely judgemental. Your faith has been taken to such extreme that it seems to be having a toxic impact on your life. Id suggest to stop trying to live up to other's expectations definitely including what your faith expects of the ideal servant...

No one should care whether you slept with a girl or guy or hundreds of chicks with dicks over the summer.. it's nobodies business but your own. I've had a few friends come out over the years and it really changes nothing... they're still the same friend I always had. Be yourself, be happy, and don't let anyone or a book tell you how you should live your life.


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## MisterSuperGod (Oct 19, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Here the time @MisterSuperGod was in a movie



i just realized that was an extremely young Vincent D'onofrio there. Always liked his style of acting.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Here the time @MisterSuperGod was in a movie



He had about the sweetest mullet of that time (as if they were popular any other time). I was 12 I think  


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## TomJ (Oct 19, 2021)

In reference to DTs sexy speedo pics. 

I'm as straight as straight gets. No question, sure as the sunrise, straight. 

I have a number of speedo's. 
Whatever your into, your into, doesn't say shit on your preferred extra curriculars. 

Some of the gayest, softest, fruit loop fairy boys I've ever known were straight as could be. 

And literally THE manliest dude I know personally has been married to his husband for over a decade. 

You really can't tell anymore  

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## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

TomJ said:


> And literally THE manliest dude I know personally has been married to his husband for over a decade.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk



You could be describing me or many of the other cool  brother’s you wouldn’t suspect as Ghey. 


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## TomJ (Oct 19, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> You could be describing me or many of the other cool  brother’s you wouldn’t suspect as Ghey.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


but i do suspect youre ghey...


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## Trump (Oct 19, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Hopefully, these snippets of your post helps answer your spectrum question.  If not, you sent pictures of yourself in underwear to a male dominated forum for your 30th birthday.
> 
> I believe the Bible wants people to have sex only for the specific reason to reproduce.  Do I feel dirty when I pull out or fornicate with my wife on birth control?  I don't.  Do I feel dirty when I pull out and ejaculate on her face?  That was a trick question, that shit only happens in the movies.
> 
> ...


Fuck the bible,


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## weightlossburn (Oct 19, 2021)

MisterSuperGod said:


> i just realized that was an extremely young Vincent D'onofrio there. Always liked his style of acting.


Didn't even realize that.  It's funny when you notice stars in older movies.  Vincent needs to join this board and start working out again.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

TomJ said:


> but i do suspect youre ghey...



True 


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## Kraken (Oct 20, 2021)

I can't read 9 pages of this... Let me know how it turns out.


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## TomJ (Oct 20, 2021)

Kraken said:


> I can't read 9 pages of this... Let me know how it turns out.


Tldr; 
maybe ghey. But that's okay. 

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## Trump (Oct 20, 2021)

TomJ said:


> Tldr;
> maybe ghey. But that's okay.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


He is ghey and that is ok


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## The Phoenix (Oct 20, 2021)

Kraken said:


> I can't read 9 pages of this... Let me know how it turns out.


We had a big cumming out party for him.


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## Kraken (Oct 20, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> We had a big cumming out party for him.


Yup, after page 1 I kinda saw it going that way. Did he leave the girl? 

Thanks for saving me some time.


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## TeddyBear (Oct 20, 2021)

Kraken said:


> Yup, after page 1 I kinda saw it going that way. Did he leave the girl?
> 
> Thanks for saving me some time.


I honestly didn't. It really sucked as a journey.

No one in my life suggested as much, which was good, failing the relationship hurt badly. Being told by others "you're gay" would have really hurt much more. You have to figure it out yourself.

It's been a ride.

It's not done, but I'm at least aware of what the ride IS now.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 20, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I honestly didn't. It really sucked as a journey.
> 
> No one in my life suggested as much, which was good, failing the relationship hurt badly. Being told by others "you're gay" would have really hurt much more. You have to figure it out yourself.
> 
> ...



Esas ya son intimidades?  LOL - jk; it's the spanish way of say TMI before it goes in a different direction.


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## Kraken (Oct 20, 2021)

dted23 said:


> It's not done, but I'm at least aware of what the ride IS now.


Well I sincerely wish you the best.


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## Sityslicker1 (Oct 21, 2021)

Just relax man and enjoy the moment. Don't focus on busting, focus on her. Just enjoy the moment-- her groans, titties bouncing, pussy getting nice and wet, and strong eye contact. Your too wound up. With time you'll be more comfortable and it will be easier


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## CJ (Oct 21, 2021)

Sityslicker1 said:


> Just relax man and enjoy the moment. Don't focus on busting, focus on her. Just enjoy the moment-- her groans, titties bouncing, pussy getting nice and wet, and strong eye contact. Your too wound up. With time you'll be more comfortable and it will be easier


😳😳😳...... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You might want to read just a bit more of the thread. 😉


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## The Phoenix (Oct 21, 2021)

All slick has the do is remove the “s” from “she”. 


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## TeddyBear (Oct 26, 2021)

A friend admitted to me today that before he got married he “went through an experiment phase”. He said “I don’t regret it, I had fun, I thought I was gay, and then I found my wife after a period of realizing how toxic the lifestyle could be and taking a break. I just needed some distance and perspective.”

Similarly, three other well-meaning friends have said basically: “we think you went off the deep end. Maybe you aren’t where you think you are on the spectrum. Just get some pussy and reevaluate.”

Meanwhile, I just had to have a talk with my FWB. That “I’m not ready to date. I’m not emotionally ready for a man or woman, especially a man.” But also, I think he has stuff to figure out too before he’s ready to date (work life balance stuff). But we both wanted exclusivity because we both are “catching feelings”. So maybe it’s time to hit the brakes a little and reevaluate now too.

The problems are these:
1. I don’t super want to try pussy
2. Id feel wrong hitting someone up for experimentation, I already did feel torn to shreds doing that
3. Id have performance anxiety and pressure again: that’s not gonna help seal new feelings

The alternative arguments are these:
1. Won’t know until I try?
2. I’ve experimented before so go for it again?
3. I didn’t have performance issues with a guy, so maybe I’m over that hump now

My friends are on board. Everyone who I want to know, knows. They also want what’s best for me and several have said that they think best means finding a willing woman to try with.

Some said; just date, find someone you connect with, pursue her; and then try it out. But that seems cruel as a surprise.

I’m really really lost and confused. Maybe I did jump to conclusions.


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## Trump (Oct 26, 2021)

dted23 said:


> A friend admitted to me today that before he got married he “went through an experiment phase”. He said “I don’t regret it, I had fun, I thought I was gay, and then I found my wife after a period of realizing how toxic the lifestyle could be and taking a break. I just needed some distance and perspective.”
> 
> Similarly, three other well-meaning friends have said basically: “we think you went off the deep end. Maybe you aren’t where you think you are on the spectrum. Just get some pussy and reevaluate.”
> 
> ...


Let’s things happen naturally writing down pros and cons lists is ridiculous. Like your friend if you meet a woman and something clicks then roll with it. But on the same regard you meet a guy amd it clicks go that way. Just relax and try not to put yourself in a category just go about your life and when it’s right you will know. Male, female, cross dresser who knows but when that time is right you will know about it


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## CJ (Oct 26, 2021)

Agree completely with Trumps post above. You're overthinking this, just let whatever happens, happen. 

I went through something similar once, I was torn. I couldn't decide which I liked better. I mean both were good, so what's wrong with both? I felt like I was "cheating" though, I felt dirty. Ultimately it just happened though, and now I know that I like Coke better than Pepsi. 

Hope that made you at least smile a little. Don't beat yourself up over this, you'll know who you are in due time.


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## Yano (Oct 26, 2021)

Just be you and have fun man , like CJ and Trump said. If it feels good and your having fun does it really matter who it's with ? I've never had this issue so I can only guess how confusing it must all be at first I'll give ya the same advice that I'd give one of my kids , the only person worrying is you, relax and have fun , learn laugh discover be yourself and just enjoy where the journey takes you , don't focus on the end result or all the what if's.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 26, 2021)

What is the definition of insanity again?


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## Robdjents (Oct 26, 2021)

Dted my only advice is don’t let your sexuality define who you are. That’s the biggest issue I see with confused or homosexual or whatever you wanna call it at this point...I have a gay cousin for example and he makes damn sure we all know about his lifestyle every time he shows his cringy little face...of course nobody cares where he puts his little dinger it the character of a man that matters but you probably know this stuff...I’m sure you’ll figure it all out in time brother


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## Be_A_Hero (Oct 26, 2021)

Look at it this way, you might've dodged a bullet with some of these women brother. I lost my religion for most of my 20's i only recently got back to it once i realized that God is everything but thats another topic for another day. Gay, Straight, bi, none of that shit makes a difference. Love is Love. I think denial creates more issues than indulgence. Go out and enjoy some ass, don't think too much.


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## Puff2Tuff (Oct 27, 2021)

A persons sexuality can evolve. Some people stay the same throughout their lives and others are constantly changing. We grow and learn through our experiences in our lives. I truly hope you find happiness and don't be too hard on yourself. You will find what is right for you. Stay strong...mentally and physically.


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## weightlossburn (Oct 27, 2021)

Maybe your more emotional than most people.  If your emotions define your sexuality than it's may be tough to give you the litmus test.  But give it a shot.

Watch some really good straight porn and watch some really good gay porn.  If you notice a distinct difference in arousal levels, than your sexuality should be obvious.

I have female friends that I love and male friends that I love.  That comes with their kindness and trust.  But only females can arouse me.

If for some reason you find yourself only emotionally smitten with females while only being aroused by men, than you got a tough situation.

I would advise you not to experiment with women.  Most of them don't like to be lab rats.  If you do, you may want to opt to go with a paid professional.

Also, I assume your experiment phase friend is gay.  Unfortunately, I think his current marriage situation is going to cause him more harm than good.  Be the pioneer in your group of friends and stop questioning what feels right for you.


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## Samp3i (Oct 27, 2021)

Best thread ever.


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## Eazy1 (Oct 27, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> We had a big cumming out party
> 
> 
> The Phoenix said:
> ...


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## TeddyBear (Oct 28, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Best thread ever.


Lol. It’s still a ride.
I’m going crazy over here.
I’m “Papí”, he’s my “bear”. It’s literally insane to me and I feel like I’m spinning out. Seeing this guy twice a week. IDK what I’m doing at all.


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## Samp3i (Oct 28, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Lol. It’s still a ride.
> I’m going crazy over here.
> I’m “Papí”, he’s my “bear”. It’s literally insane to me and I feel like I’m spinning out. Seeing this guy twice a week. IDK what I’m doing at all.


Man who gives a fuck! Enjoy it 
I mean live your life as you fit and try to enjoy every second of it. Try to not hurt anyone on purpose and apart from that have fun


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## Eazy1 (Oct 28, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Man who gives a fuck! Enjoy it
> I mean live your life as you fit and try to enjoy every second of it. Try to not hurt anyone on purpose and apart from that have fun


I think the only thing that will be getting hurt is his b-hole.

In all seriousness i wish you the best of luck @dted23 hope you find yourself, and happiness.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 28, 2021)

Eazy1 said:


> I think the only thing that will be getting hurt is his b-hole.
> 
> In all seriousness i wish you the best of luck @dted23 hope you find yourself, and happiness.



I doubt it he’ll be sore…he works out remember?


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## flenser (Oct 28, 2021)

This turned out to be a really cool thread. I hope things work out for @dted23. Not going to offer any advice. My experience falls well short of any of this. I married my first and only internet hook up 14 years ago. Still very interested to know how things go.


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## Send0 (Oct 28, 2021)

Dted and I joined around the same time, but I knew pretty early on that he was one of the coolest SOB's on the forum.

This thread proves my initial thoughts about him were 100% spot on. 

I'm glad you're in a much better place brother. It truly broke my heart seeing how you were beating yourself up initially. Now it really makes me happy seeing your growth and acceptance.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 28, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Dted and I joined around the same time, but I knew pretty early on that he was one of the coolest SOB's on the forum.
> 
> This thread proves my initial thoughts about him were 100% spot on.
> 
> I'm glad you're in a much better place brother. It truly broke my heart seeing how you were beating yourself up initially. Now it really makes me happy seeing your growth and acceptance.



Oh wow, don’t make it sound like he passed away. “You’re in a much better than place” LOL 


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## The Phoenix (Oct 29, 2021)

But you are right @Send0; i recall BSP telling a story of his friend.  I am glad @dted23 has made it through.


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## TeddyBear (Oct 29, 2021)

If I don’t post a workout log and don’t say it’s because I am out of town or had an event…
Assume it’s because my guy and we’re simultaneously available and decided to play instead.

E.g. today was a “rest” day. 😜 in which I decided to wear a practice football jersey for game time.

Unrelated; I also made spaghetti AND pizza for my dinner today. So bulk is on track. PRs in lifts. I’m doing much better.

Even if I’m still toying with the idea that this may be a misunderstanding or phase.

I also haven’t seen my therapist in 3 weeks. So while I appreciate the money and time saved, I can’t tell if this is a positive or negative move yet.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 3, 2021)

Today was really emotional for me, just deep in my feelings. Frustrated and sad.

I started cables for triceps and biceps.

That’s all I did. The I fought tears and left.

I’m really questioning a lot right now in my life.

Nearly everyone is telling me to go “live my truth”. I just don’t think truth is subjective.

I think I know three truths;
1. God made me this way, gay.
2. God loves all of His children.
3. God accepts me, He doesn’t accept living a gay life.

My boss pulled me to the side to ask if I was okay. Because I’m not and I haven’t been for a while.

I told her why I’ve been so sullen and defeated and distant. She said;
1. It’s nobody’s business but yours, you’re fine.
2. Secrets tear you, Dted, apart. You will probably need to come out if you’re going to live with yourself.

I don’t know what I’m doing at all. I’m so sad and feel so alone. No one understands. They’re either on team: pray this out of you or  team: your truth is all that matters.


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 3, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I think I know three truths;
> 1. God made me this way, gay.
> 2. God loves all of His children.
> 3. God accepts me, He doesn’t accept living a gay life.


Dted, this religion ain't working for you. Have you ever thought about challenging any of these beliefs? (Part 2 of number 3 is the one in particular you might want to look at).


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## MrBafner (Nov 3, 2021)

I use to have a supervisor that had a transgender partner .. looked really hot, spoke, walked and dressed like a hot chick. He was so happy that she had all the male parts .. as he put it, best of both worlds.
He was a good fella to work with and always happy.


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## weightlossburn (Nov 3, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Today was really emotional for me, just deep in my feelings. Frustrated and sad.
> 
> I started cables for triceps and biceps.
> 
> ...



For many years there were black leaders that fought for their rights.  Similarly for many years gay leaders have fought for their rights.  With the exception of blind people, everyone knows when you are black.  And unfortunately  discrimination exists.  

You have to look deep to understand what bothers you about it.  While you try to understand that, please think about all the gay leaders.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 3, 2021)

I cried 4x times today.

First, when my boss checked in on me.
Second, when my friend hit me up for dinner.
Third, when a friend called me to see if I was okay.
Fourth, when I called my mom to tell her, I’m not gay in theory but likely actually just gay.

I told my mom that I’m currently seeing someone. That I feel convicted.

I still need to do more weighing. But mom said:
1. I want you to be happy and in a safe loving relationship if that’s what you want.
2. You’re the best man I know, the most disciplined and authentic. You’ll make the right decision.
3. Just don’t be a hoe. Wait until marriage.
4. You ALWAYS beat yourself up. You’ve always been strict on yourself: anxious because you missed a bed time, stressed because you’re not early to an appointment, distraught over a cavity. I suspect your convictions are misplaced because you’re always too hard on yourself.

I think mom is mostly right. I just need to reckon with the Holy Spirit still.


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## Samp3i (Nov 3, 2021)

The day ppl will see religion for what it is..... It will never happen so nevermind.

Listen dted Jesus Christ the son of GOD preached love and kindness then men took his words and flipped it creating a long list of rules and what's wrong and what's right.

Come on man, wake the fuck up! If GOD is perfect and loves you he is not a petty retards that would condemn how you live your life even if it was the worse most miserable life.. and you know why? Because he is fucking perfect! And you are not! And he knows it! 

BUT you are not living a miserable life, you are living a great life that YOU are making miserable!

Stop beating yourself up! It's 2021 and you are worried of what? That you like to take dicks up your bum? Or that you love wnother man? Love is love my friend. Doesn't matter who you love... Doesn't matter who you fantasise to have sex or spend your life with... What matters is that you don't hurt other ppl and try to be a good person BY YOUR MORAL COMPASS and not other ppl or religion moral compass!

So fucking slap yourself few times, cry as much as you want and then get your pants on or skirt on whatever the fuck you want and go live your life at the fullest without regrets. 

NO ONE HAS THE TRUTH IN THEIR HANDS! NO ONE!

get free from all of these religious construct, you can still believe in God but please think of it as a loving omniscient being that it's not there to judge you or tell you what to do but only to hug you and love you no matter what. 

Just don't go all serial killer on us please 🤣😘


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Today was really emotional for me, just deep in my feelings. Frustrated and sad.
> 
> I started cables for triceps and biceps.
> 
> ...



What if we want both for you? I’ve told you already how to live both ways. 


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Dted, this religion ain't working for you. Have you ever thought about challenging any of these beliefs? (Part 2 of number 3 is the one in particular you might want to look at).



There’s nothing wrong with faith. He was faithful before; making him gay doesn’t change a thing to his faith. What you need to do for him is have faith he comes through this; although faith is something that May not come natural to you


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## Send0 (Nov 3, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> There’s nothing wrong with faith. He was faithful before; making him gay doesn’t change a thing to his faith. What you need to do for him is have faith he comes through this; although faith is something that May not come natural to you


Dted is a strong man; a bit stubborn, but he's still one of the strongest people I've had the honor to know either offline or in person.

I know he will find his answer, even if his journey getting there is filled with bumps or internal be struggle.


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## silentlemon1011 (Nov 3, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I cried 4x times today.
> 
> First, when my boss checked in on me.
> Second, when my friend hit me up for dinner.
> ...



Look brother
The. bible is not meant to.be taken literally.

For example
Jesus said
It is better to pluck out thine own eye than to look upon a married woman with lust
(Paraphrasing)

Brah, I'd have lost my eyes YEARS ago.

If you look at ANYTHING Jesus said
Find me ONE PASSAGE that he condemns homosexuality.
I'll wait here (Forever, because it doesn't exist)

Long story short, the old testament says some shit, but the old testament is crazy wrath, doom and gloom

The new Testament is the change of direction for Christianity, the NEW rules, the acceptance of everyone.

So dont let religion stand in the way, Jesus doesnt give a fuck who you sleep with and never said a word about it.


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## weightlossburn (Nov 3, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> The day ppl will see religion for what it is..... It will never happen so nevermind.
> 
> Listen dted Jesus Christ the son of GOD preached love and kindness then men took his words and flipped it creating a long list of rules and what's wrong and what's right.
> 
> ...


Seriously, you check more boxes about what the new testament preaches than most people I know.  Time to start giving yourself credit where it's due.  Every religion has one main goal.  The teachings of Jesus is to love and accept unconditionally.

Time for you to see the light that is the students that love you, your family that loves you, and this forum that loves you.  

Couldn't agree with @Samp3i more.  There is a lot of bullshit rules created by con men around the time the new testament was published.  I honestly believe that all that Jesus asks for is love and acceptance.  

Do we punish @Samp3i for jerking off while thinking about Jessica's titties?  No, because most heterosexual men would be out motorboating those sand bags.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

@dted23, not going to quote scripture because although I know what they mean to me, when you read them, G-d is speaking directly to you. He does not change his message, only his delivery to you. You got the right friends guiding you and supporting you in your effort. Continue to have faith because you understand what’s in it for you. Many others have good intent but until they’ve lived in your shoes, could only understand the true issues you are facing. 


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Dted is a strong man; a bit stubborn, but he's still one of the strongest people I've had the honor to know either offline or in person.
> 
> I know he will find his answer, even if his journey getting there is filled with bumps or internal be struggle.


He's definitely more mature about it than I was when I came out a 1/4 century ago.


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## TomJ (Nov 3, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Today was really emotional for me, just deep in my feelings. Frustrated and sad.
> 
> I started cables for triceps and biceps.
> 
> ...


I can't speak from the sexual preference side. But I can speak as a fellow Christian. 

All sins are equal. We as human beings are inherently sinful. My sins are no greater or worse than yours and God doesn't love me and more or less because of them. 

Now I'm going to try and stay off of the religious soap box as much as possible. It's my personal beliefs that faith and Christianity is all about a personal reflection and relationship with god. This is different for everyone. Going to church every Sunday doesn't make you more of a Christian. Reading the Bible regularly doesn't make you more of a Christian. Sleeping with women instead of men certainly doesn't make you more of a Christian. I mean shit, my body count would make my pastor ill, but that's my sins and part of my personal faiths and beliefs. 

I think the "pray the gay away" is a dated and unhealthy philosophy that borderlines on dangerous. 

I know it can't really mean much coming from a stranger on the internet, but don't beat yourself up so much brother. 

My pms are always open if your struggling man.

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## Samp3i (Nov 3, 2021)

TomJ said:


> I can't speak from the sexual preference side. But I can speak as a fellow Christian.
> 
> All sins are equal. We as human beings are inherently sinful. My sins are no greater or worse than yours and God doesn't love me and more or less because of them.
> 
> ...


The pay the gay away thing is criminal... And brought a lot more then just misery on ppl that had to endure it, let's not even delve into it because I'm quite calm today and wanna keep it that way 😤

I agree with your words completely.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> The pay the gay away


Do you mean gay for pay?  that's when straight men has sex with gay men for money.


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## TomJ (Nov 3, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> The pay the gay away thing is criminal... And brought a lot more then just misery on ppl that had to endure it, let's not even delve into it because I'm quite calm today and wanna keep it that way
> 
> I agree with your words completely.


For real. Christianity is a religion of love that's been bastardized to give people as many excuses as possible to be self righteous. 

Way too much hate

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## TomJ (Nov 3, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Do you mean gay for pay? that's when straight men has sex with gay men for money.


You suck ONE dick to make rent, and people call you gay forever. 

Crazy world we live in. 

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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

TomJ said:


> You suck ONE dick to make rent, and people call you gay forever.
> 
> Crazy world we live in.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk



My spouse told me a story of a homeless couple he took to dinner and they told their story.  He said that people that say they would help them would take advantage of them.  One such story was a trucker helping them out and he said he would take payment for the lift if the lady would have sex with the trucker.  The husband, not being able to afford them a ride, much less compensate the man for the lift, could only offer himself to save his lover's honor.  That story reminded me of the Story of Lot, offering his daughters, only to save the honor of hospitality of his guests.  These are the stories people misconstrue and see only the small aspects instead of the bigger picture.


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## TomJ (Nov 3, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> My spouse told me a story of a homeless couple he took to dinner and they told their story. He said that people that say they would help them would take advantage of them. One such story was a trucker helping them out and he said he would take payment for the lift if the lady would have sex with the trucker. The husband, not being able to afford them a ride, much less compensate the man for the lift, could only offer himself to save his lover's honor. That story reminded me of the Story of Lot, offering his daughters, only to save the honor of hospitality of his guests. These are the stories people misconstrue and see only the small aspects instead of the bigger picture.


Some vile people out there man

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## CJ (Nov 3, 2021)

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, as I'm not a religious man, but hasn't the Pope himself come out in support of gay marriage? 

He has the biggest hat, so he must be the boss. If it's good enough for him, then I think you should be OK with yourself.


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## TomJ (Nov 3, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Forgive me if I'm mistaken, as I'm not a religious man, but hasn't the Pope himself come out in support of gay marriage?
> 
> He has the biggest hat, so he must be the boss. If it's good enough for him, then I think you should be OK with yourself.


Pretty sure he has. I'm not sure what denomination @dted23 is part of. 
But the pope only holds sway over the Catholic church. 

Baptists, non denominational, lutheran, ect ect don't hold him in any regard. 

Catholicism and other denominations are very different from one another. 

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## CJ (Nov 3, 2021)

TomJ said:


> Pretty sure he has. I'm not sure what denomination @dted23 is part of.
> But the pope only holds sway over the Catholic church.
> 
> Baptists, non denominational, lutheran, ect ect don't hold him in any regard.
> ...


Fair enough. I just hate how Dted is beating himself up over something completely out of his control.  😢


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## Send0 (Nov 3, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Forgive me if I'm mistaken, as I'm not a religious man, but hasn't the Pope himself come out in support of gay marriage?
> 
> He has the biggest hat, so he must be the boss. If it's good enough for him, then I think you should be OK with yourself.


That's how the world should operate. Biggest hat wins!


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## CJ (Nov 3, 2021)

Send0 said:


> That's how the world should operate. Biggest hat wins!


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## TomJ (Nov 3, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Fair enough. I just hate how Dted is beating himself up over something completely out of his control.


In general. It's been my observation that Christianity as a whole has become quite accepting over the last decade or so. 

Some may still preach against it, but very few harbor the hate and animosity that has become the stereotype. 

The anti homosexual retoric is largely a zealous, although certainly not silent, minority that give the rest of us a bad name. 

It sounds like dted has an awesome group of people around him and supporting him in his professional life, his family, and his iron family. He's got his journey to go through with it, but seeing what I have here I'm confident he will make it through a stronger, more whole individual. 

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## TomJ (Nov 3, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> View attachment 15018



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View attachment 15019


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## Samp3i (Nov 3, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Do you mean gay for pay?  that's when straight men has sex with gay men for money.


mispelled LOL


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Forgive me if I'm mistaken, as I'm not a religious man, but hasn't the Pope himself come out in support of gay marriage?
> 
> He has the biggest hat, so he must be the boss. If it's good enough for him, then I think you should be OK with yourself.



I don't think the pope heads the "overall" Christian faith.  To some, Roman Catholicism means Universal, to others, they view it as pagan usurpation.  Regardless, there were other ancient churches  that were most closer aligned to Judaism than they are ancestor worship (whether it be Greek mythology to eastern religions such as Hinduism, Doaism, and other animist beliefts).  The mideaval Nestorians  were confused for being a lost tribe because their holidays were aligned closer the church in Jerusalem from ancient times.  The Coptic and Ethiopic churches have portions of the Jewish apocrypha that aren't included in the Roman Tabiblia (cannon).  One needs to not view it only from a western perspective, there are several.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

TomJ said:


> For real. Christianity is a religion of love ....


....and righteousness.  And I don't blame people for leaving that one out.  Because who wants to be told they are wrong when they can't see what is wrong with themselves.  This is why we must always examine ourselves first.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

Send0 said:


> That's how the world should operate. Biggest hat wins!


It's not the size of the hat, it's the motion of the ocean.


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## Samp3i (Nov 3, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> ....and righteousness.  And I don't blame people for leaving that one out.  Because who wants to be told they are wrong when they can't see what is wrong with themselves.  This is why we must always examine ourselves first.


but that's why christianity as all those righteousness religions should be all terminated, but let's not delve into it.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> but that's why christianity as all those righteousness religions should be all terminated, but let's not delve into it.



Righteousness is a personal quest, not something someone can hold you too.  

Edit:  How could you eradicate that?


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## Samp3i (Nov 3, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Righteousness is a personal quest, not something someone can hold you too.
> 
> Edit:  How could you eradicate that?


Unless I'm mistakenly the meaning of it... Righteousness religions believe they are right and everyonelse that doesn't agree and join their side is wrong and will be damned.

Am I wrong?


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## The Phoenix (Nov 3, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Unless I'm mistakenly the meaning of it... Righteousness religions believe they are right and everyonelse that doesn't agree and join their own side is wrong and will be damned.
> 
> Am I wrong?



I would say noone is perfect.  You have the choice to stay or go.  If someone's teaching goes against the holy scriptures, it will become apparent.  Your next response might be but men in ancient times wrote those words.  True, but men are either instruments of good or ill.  The tool we use today to write is a keyboard, but the words are our own.  Same time goes for the ancient scripture, which have been consistent through the ages and common sense (wisdom) are communicae that was uttered from the very beginning and echo through today.


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## Methyl mike (Nov 10, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Man who gives a fuck! Enjoy it
> I mean live your life as you fit and try to enjoy every second of it. Try to not hurt anyone on purpose and apart from that have fun


Exactly this.


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## Methyl mike (Nov 10, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I would say noone is perfect.  You have the choice to stay or go.  If someone's teaching goes against the holy scriptures, it will become apparent.  Your next response might be but men in ancient times wrote those words.  True, but men are either instruments of good or ill.  The tool we use today to write is a keyboard, but the words are our own.  Same time goes for the ancient scripture, which have been consistent through the ages and common sense (wisdom) are communicae that was uttered from the very beginning and echo through today.


I really, really do not want to go down this road...I like you now and refuse to start disliking you.


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## Methyl mike (Nov 10, 2021)

NO RELIGION, PLEASE
IT TEARS COMMUNITIES APART


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## The Phoenix (Nov 10, 2021)

Why are you bringing up a week old thread ? 


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## The Phoenix (Nov 10, 2021)

btw, is my buddy @dted23 still on his honeymoon or did he elope with that young fellar? 


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## Send0 (Nov 10, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> btw, is my buddy @dted23 still on his honeymoon or did he elope with that young fellar?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


He's still on vacation from what I understand. I'll see how he's doing later today.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 10, 2021)

Send0 said:


> He's still on vacation from what I understand. I'll see how he's doing later today.


poor guy needed it.  I think he took his cub up to the cabins to hibernate....LOL


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## TomJ (Nov 10, 2021)

Methyl mike said:


> NO RELIGION, PLEASE
> IT TEARS COMMUNITIES APART


I normally agree, but religion is literally one of the major sticking points of this thread.

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## The Phoenix (Nov 10, 2021)

TomJ said:


> I normally agree, but religion is literally one of the major sticking points of this thread.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


I concur; one has to read this thread in it's entirety to understand the journey.

HINT:  Things take an interesting turn about 2/3's the way.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 18, 2021)

So.
Starting in October.
I had a hook up turn into a FWB.
I told him I wasn’t ready for a relationship, it sounded intimidating and I was scared and nervous.

But we liked seeing each other. Talking. He was really sweet, kind, thoughtful.

As I really wrestled and freaked out, he gave me space but offered support. Later he told me “I thought for sure you would ghost me, try to be straight.”

When work drama happened: he set up a massage table and had a new video game to play to keep my body and mind at peace. “I thought you’d read this as an omen and freak out, ghost me.”

We’ve gone on dates. 

I held his hand at a street fair and he beamed, he knew how much courage that took from me.

Our lives are different and it intimidates me. But also we can learn so much from each other.

We got STD tested this week, we’ve been exclusive for a month, we’d like a safe start to our next chapter. Calling him my boyfriend almost slips out.

Next week he will meet my friends and family at two different dinners. I’m nervous because for them; I go from hypothetically gay to actually gay with a guy. I’m afraid of the judgement, as loving as they are, it’s nerve wracking to bring anyone into a circle.

I also told my pastor today. We’re meeting tomorrow to discuss further. He was surprised, he thought my sexuality was something I was wrestling with and he didn’t expect me to be dating.

He appreciates my honesty and reaching out. He says he wants to support me on my journey, that the church and his own theology towards sex is conservative, but that he doesn’t want me to feel mistrusted or abandoned.

I don’t know what he’ll say tomorrow. I’ve accepted the consequences of telling him.

I don’t want to be asked to step down from serving the youth, my students graduate in the spring, and I’ve been with them for 4 years. But I understand if he asks me to.

I also understand if he lets me serve with the caveat that I don’t do the overnight camps or give rides home to students anymore.

I want to do this right, honestly, and let people in.

I also want to share my life with my guy, without secrets or hiding.

I’m scared.


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## CJ (Nov 18, 2021)

Don't worry if people judge you, the ones that matter will still love you. 

And if the pastor ask you not to do certain things with the youth, remind him that being gay and a child rapist ARE NOT the same thing. I'm not even gay, and that one really pisses me off. 😡


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## TeddyBear (Nov 18, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Don't worry if people judge you, the ones that matter will still love you.
> 
> And if the pastor ask you not to do certain things with the youth, remind him that being gay and a child rapist ARE NOT the same thing. I'm not even gay, and that one really pisses me off. 😡


More so I’m saying as a gender compromise. If that makes him feel better, that’s fine.

Right now, it’s more likely that I’ll be asked to step down as a failure of modeling biblical relationship.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> More so I’m saying as a gender compromise. If that makes him feel better, that’s fine.
> 
> Right now, it’s more likely that I’ll be asked to step down as a failure of modeling biblical relationship.



Iván used to play the piano for synagogue and they asked him to step down but kept me on to do the engineering work. The difference being one is more visible than the other. He understood it but was hurt because ñ he enjoyed doing that and it was taken away from him. 


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## TeddyBear (Nov 19, 2021)

My brother misunderstood what I told him several weeks ago. He felt totally blindsided, betrayed, and scared when I told him I was seriously dating… a guy.

He sobbed with fear and anxiety. He’s worried for me, grieves the future he envisioned for me, and feels more pressure to “carry on the family name”.

He’s a simple guy, he handles change even worse than I do. He gets frustrated emotionally and is legitimately hoping I’m mistaken.

I tried to explain to him that I had hoped I was mistaken, but if I’m honest with myself I’m not. I didn’t go into detail, but even he has to know it’s odd his brother never talked girls.

This really throws the Thanksgiving plans for a loop. But my brother will come around eventually. I just don’t want him pointing fingers at my guy over Turkey saying it’s his fault in any way.

But he also hasn’t had time to process his emotions. So I hope he bounces back, he does otherwise trust my judgement fully.

I’m worried about tomorrow. But if not being able to volunteer for 5 months is my consequence, I have to accept it.


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## 69nites (Nov 19, 2021)

Quick storytime about a guy I know. 

As a troubled 15 year old with adult problems I tried to get away from my troubles In a church. Started with youth group and moved to youth bible study. This is where I met the leader of youth bible study, we'll call him John. At the time he was a single guy right around 30. My understanding of religion and problems were more fitting for the adult men's bible study group. So I attended youth group for the social aspect and fucking all the girls as boys in youth group do, but for sharing of struggles and study, I was with John as a peer in the adult group.

This is where John would slowly share more with his struggles with sinning. It was almost entirely his porn consumption and masterbation. As time goes on he dates a few women. Around 2 years after I met him in this group he shared that he could not get aroused by hetero porn, he had exclusively been watching, and masturbating to gay porn.

I obviously left the church and religion as I never truly believed in any of it but kept somewhat in touch with John for years. To this day he's a virgin who hates himself for his desires, hates himself for beating it, and thinks he's like Job and God has given him these urges as a test. He's going to live and die a miserable man who sins the same every day jerking it to gay porn as he would be sinning in a fulfilling and loving relationship with another man.

I can tell you that 100% you're handling the dichotomy of your faith and your sexual orientation far better than him and your life will be more fulfilling for it.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> My brother misunderstood what I told him several weeks ago. He felt totally blindsided, betrayed, and scared when I told him I was seriously dating… a guy.
> 
> He sobbed with fear and anxiety. He’s worried for me, grieves the future he envisioned for me, and feels more pressure to “carry on the family name”.
> 
> ...



I like how you are protective of your man, even from your family.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I’m 29, and I’ve been pretty sheltered and chaste my whole life.
> 
> Some of it was 90’s church sex-scare tactics; but also legitimately me deciding as an adult to wait on sex until marriage.
> 
> ...



In hindsight brother, you don’t sound like this anymore. You aren’t asking anymore questions because you have discovered who you really are. It is great to see you happy with who you are rather than tearing yourself apart. 


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## Hughinn (Nov 19, 2021)

Bobbyloads said:


> wait hold up...... you ain’t ****ing at 29 but your doing cycles?



I was about to say the same thing. 

And that's a high dose of NPP that could do all sorts of weird shit.


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## Hughinn (Nov 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> So.
> Starting in October.
> I had a hook up turn into a FWB.
> I told him I wasn’t ready for a relationship, it sounded intimidating and I was scared and nervous.
> ...


Whoa.  
What the fuck did I miss?

I read till page 3 about a failed nut from a blow job and skipped up till here. 

I guess I need to go back.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 19, 2021)

Hughinn said:


> Whoa.
> What the fuck did I miss?
> 
> I read till page 3 about a failed nut from a blow job and skipped up till here.
> ...



Like I say; go to the last 1/3 of this thread and you will find what you missed there. Like Derek from “More plates, more dates,  Tren makes you do some funny things. 


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## Hughinn (Nov 19, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Like I say; go to the last 1/3 of this thread and you will find what you missed there. Like Derek from “More plates, more dates,  Tren makes you do some funny things.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Yeah I made it to about page 3 or 4 where he was struggling to stay aroused and not getting off and it was obvious then he was gay.   

On top of that, straight guys don't talk about mental shit like that.  Or overthink pussy like that.  We just try to get into it as often as possible 😉

But to the OP.  I'm glad you're figuring it out bud.    Godspeed to you sir. 

I can't offer any helpful advice or perspective on this particular matter because I don't know what it's like and just can't understand.  

So good luck brother. 

I'm out.


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## Dungeon Dweller (Nov 19, 2021)

TomJ said:


> In general. It's been my observation that Christianity as a whole has become quite accepting over the last decade or so.


As an ELCA Lutheran I can confirm that. We even have gay preachers in our denomination.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 19, 2021)

Dungeon Dweller said:


> As an ELCA Lutheran I can confirm that. We even have gay preachers in our denomination.


True.  You won't find that in the more traditional churches and synagogues, which is where most people flee to when they are not receiving sound doctrine (watered-down).


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 19, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> True.  You won't find that in the more traditional churches and synagogues, which is where most people flee to when they are not receiving sound doctrine (watered-down).


Phoenix, are you suggesting the tolerant churches are watered-down? Because that’s MY impression to an extent.

Not hateful, but direct.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Phoenix, are you suggesting the tolerant churches are watered-down? Because that’s MY impression to an extent.
> 
> Not hateful, but direct.


No sir, I was saying that most traditional groups tend to attract the intolerant because  these groups feel that tolerant churches are watered down.  I'm putting myself in that mindset to be able to understand that perspective, it doesn't mean I agree with it.


----------



## Yano (Nov 19, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> No sir, I was saying that most traditional groups tend to attract the intolerant because  these groups feel that tolerant churches are watered down.  I'm putting myself in that mindset to be able to understand that perspective, it doesn't mean I agree with it.


Being raised with a Catholic parent on one side and a Russian Orthodox on the other I can assure you they thrive on intolerance. Took me having a really good friend come out in the late 80's and seeing how every one reacted to it that made me question things I was taught my whole life until then. He was one of my good friends, I was shocked but I asked him about it , we talked a lot he was my friend and I decided who he loved or slept with didn't effect who he was as a person or our friendship. He was still just goofy Matt. Sorry you have to go through all this shit man , you're a good egg I might not understand it all but I support ya dude. God Bless.


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 19, 2021)

My youth pastor was loving, considerate, and listened to me.

Ultimately he affirmed that he understands that I’m gay and doesn’t counter that. He sees where I’ve wrestled and understands my journey. He empathizes with me.

He thinks it’s entirely possible that I can find the peace and fulfillment of life *without* a partner. He and I don’t count on a heart transformation, but he does hope i will let scripture lead me. He encouraged me to trust Gods word more than the people around me.

So i agreed to read with him, to wrestle with it together. 

Because no matter what, as a Christian gay man, I need to know what I believe solidly to find peace.

We both agreed I love my students well and I’ll be missed, but if I choose to actively date, I have to step down.

That my students know and will love me regardless. I’m not out of their lives, just the group.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Nov 19, 2021)

dted23 said:


> My youth pastor was loving, considerate, and listened to me.
> 
> Ultimately he affirmed that he understands that I’m gay and doesn’t counter that. He sees where I’ve wrestled and understands my journey. He empathizes with me.
> 
> ...



Sorry to be abrupt.
But basically if you date another man and try to find happiness....... you cant help kids or continue to be a good Christian?

Man that pisses me off... sorry.

But you shouldnt have to be fucking alone because of your sexual preference.

Enjoy your life, there is very little difference between straight or gay.
Only difference between YOU and ME, is which gender we prefer.
Everything else is the same.

Do you, enjoy your life Brother and fuck anyone that doesnt want you to be happy.

People as a general rule dont want you to be happy... dont want you to succeed, because people are fucking hateful.... trust me, so called friends and loved ones... I've left many in the dust because they didnt want to see me happy and couldnt celebrate my victories and progress.

Does dating men make you happy?
Does it hurt anyone ACTUALLY (Not just their sensibilities)
No?
Then they dont have your best interests at hear


----------



## Methyl mike (Nov 20, 2021)

@dted23  Find your own path to happiness and wherever it leads is where you need to go. There are other paths in life to take and they all lead to misery and regret. 

I sympathize and to a degree I also empathize with you. If it offers any comfort my advice would be to let the past go and do not let it affect your future. 

Isn't it funny, the feeling of someone obviously being cute and charming because they like you? There is no better feeling in the world is there? Cherish these moments because they will not last, change is the way of all things. But for now, someone adores you and thinks the world of you and that really ought to be all that matters. 

Wish you the best.


----------



## Samp3i (Nov 20, 2021)

Fuck the pastor enough said and
I'm being kind. What he said to you makes no fucking sense... But I mean when ever religion makes sense? Never.


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 20, 2021)

I’m doing okay.

I’m nervous, scared still.

But I really really like my guy. I’m daydreaming of trips together, pictures together, and stupid little dates together.

But now, having told my family, friends, coworkers, and the most important people in my life. I feel like I’m in the position where I can soon come out.

I’ll just give myself a moment to breath, because I’m not hiding from anyone in my life now.


----------



## CJ (Nov 20, 2021)

Can you be a believer without following any particular religion and their cherry picked rules? 

I'd choose happiness.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Can you be a believer without following any particular religion and their cherry picked rules?
> 
> I'd choose happiness.



I don’t think that is the issue because G-d or Yeshua do not discriminate. It’s the congregation. Kinda like a “Lord, save me from your followers” situation. 


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## Methyl mike (Nov 20, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Fuck the pastor enough said and
> I'm being kind. What he said to you makes no fucking sense... But I mean when ever religion makes sense? Never.


I keep trying I go to service and sometimes men's group and it's always the same, bunch of senseless garbage that makes no sense at best and insults my intelligence at worst. I ask relevant questions and this is what I have come to accept, religious people are either using it to gain in some way be it money or power or access to other people's children or they have been damaged in some way and religion somehow allows them to cope with a world they can no longer handle.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

Methyl mike said:


> I keep trying I go to service and sometimes men's group and it's always the same, bunch of senseless garbage that makes no sense at best and insults my intelligence at worst. I ask relevant questions and this is what I have come to accept, religious people are either using it to gain in some way be it money or power or access to other people's children or they have been damaged in some way and religion somehow allows them to cope with a world they can no longer handle.



I don’t go to the synagogue but watch their service via you tube and donate via their website; but every now and then I do attend (rarely) in person to have the fellowship. Same thing goes for professional groups. We meet virtually but G-d forbid I am going to have a social gathering virtually, much less drink alone. Social gatherings need to be in person. 

(did you like that smooth transition?)


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## TrenTrenTren (Nov 20, 2021)

"She has had experiences with men who wanted only sex, so she’s glad that hasn’t been my goal."

I'm sorry man. But this is completely backwards.

The paradoxical thing about women is that they do not respect men who don't want them for sex.  They say they do, and they are lying.  Women almost always say the opposite of what they really mean.  This is their nature.

Women want to be desired for their sexiness...that is the plain truth.  They want to be desired for their pussy.  They know deep down, by nature, that is the one thing they have that men need. 

If I were you, I would be talking about sex with her, talking about her sexiness, texting her about her beautiful pussy, ass, and tits all day long.  That is what she wants, even though she will say the opposite.


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> "She has had experiences with men who wanted only sex, so she’s glad that hasn’t been my goal."
> 
> I'm sorry man. But this is completely backwards.
> 
> ...


Hoo boy, I’ve learned you can’t always guess the end of the movie from the opening act.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> "She has had experiences with men who wanted only sex, so she’s glad that hasn’t been my goal."
> 
> I'm sorry man. But this is completely backwards.
> 
> ...



You need to read thread in its entirety to get the full story. None of this cursory sh!t. You can’t get a full story from reading the first 2-pages of the  book, especially when that book is still in production. 


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## TomJ (Nov 20, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> You need to read thread in its entirety to get the full story. None of this cursory sh!t. You can’t get a full story from reading the first 2-pages of the  book, especially when that book is still in production.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Especially when the book has a twist like the 6th sense.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## TrenTrenTren (Nov 20, 2021)

dted23 said:


> *This is my 1,000th post.*
> I don't know where I fall on the sexuality spectrum, but it's definitely leaning closer to _gay_.
> 
> *Recap:*
> ...



Oh ok.  Sorry that I didn't read all 14 pages.

So, you're a gay dude?  Cool man.  Lick as many man-taints and pound as much man-ass as you want.

Gargle testicles and do Roman soldier helmets with your buddies.  Go crazy man!  Ur ghey!


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> Oh ok.  Sorry that I didn't read all 14 pages.
> 
> So, you're a gay dude?  Cool man.  Lick as many man-taints and pound as much man-ass as you want.
> 
> Gargle testicles and do Roman soldier helmets with your buddies.  Go crazy man!  Ur ghey!



I think this type of stereotyping is what annoys gays; or at least gays with morals.


----------



## TrenTrenTren (Nov 20, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I think this type of stereotyping is what annoys gays; or at least gays with morals.


They need to get over it.  I lick pussy and pound pussy.  Gays lick man ass and fuck man ass.  Don't be a snowflake.


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 20, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I think this type of stereotyping is what annoys gays; or at least gays with morals.


Eh, I’ll worry more about stereotypes later. Currently won’t deny that sex is a fun world-opening experience.

He means well.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Eh, I’ll worry more about stereotypes later. Currently won’t deny that sex is a fun world-opening experience.
> 
> He means well.



Yeah and I realize he might be family cos he wanked to Frank Zane in another post and he’s on Tren (sic).  


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## TrenTrenTren (Nov 20, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Eh, I’ll worry more about stereotypes later. Currently won’t deny that sex is a fun world-opening experience.
> 
> He means well.


My aunt is gay, and she just laughs off things that would be meant to be offensive.  She totally disarms any attack because she simply refuses to get offended.  More people in general need to behave like this.  The world would be a better place.

It's the snowflake liberals that feel the need to enforce some kind of agenda on everyone that just ruins everything.


----------



## TrenTrenTren (Nov 20, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Yeah and I realize he might be family cos he wanked to Frank Zane in another post and he’s on Tren (sic).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Does the fact that Frank Zane makes me hard make me gay??


----------



## CJ (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> Does the fact that Frank Zane makes me hard make me gay??


Could be used as evidence. 🤣


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> Does the fact that Frank Zane makes me hard make me gay??


the (sic) in text is used when one is being sarcastic as sarcasm is undecipherable in text... which is why i added the wink as an inside joke to dted.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Could be used as evidence. 🤣


The question isn't does it make him hard, does it make him blow? LOL


----------



## TrenTrenTren (Nov 20, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> The question isn't does it make him hard, does it make him blow? LOL


Would I spread my butthole for Frank Zane?  Depends on my mood.


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> Would I spread my butthole for Frank Zane?  Depends on my mood.


Straight or gay, that man is gooooooaaaalllls.


----------



## CJ (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> Would I spread my butthole for Frank Zane?  Depends on my mood.


I'd do it for the story. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## TrenTrenTren (Nov 20, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Straight or gay, that man is gooooooaaaalllls.


Now, would I let him slap his balls against my face?  Hell yes


----------



## Samp3i (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> My aunt is gay, and she just laughs off things that would be meant to be offensive.  She totally disarms any attack because she simply refuses to get offended.  More people in general need to behave like this.  The world would be a better place.
> 
> It's the snowflake liberals that feel the need to enforce some kind of agenda on everyone that just ruins everything.


@xyokoma print it, read it, you can still be saved.


----------



## TomJ (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> Would I spread my butthole for Frank Zane? Depends on my mood.


Depends on the dose of tren tbh

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## CJ (Nov 20, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> @xyokoma print it, read it, you can still be saved.


Why are you trying to start shit back up? Can't you just leave well enough alone?


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 20, 2021)

TrenTrenTren said:


> Now, would I let him slap his balls against my face?  Hell yes


You go @TrenTrenTren, you just lift your legs to Jesus (if that blasphemy?)


----------



## xyokoma (Nov 20, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> @xyokoma print it, read it, you can still be saved.


I’m doing great the way I am, thanks! 😀 

You, on the other hand, look like you’ve been thinking about this for a little too long. I get it - I’m too awesome to be forgotten so quick!


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## Samp3i (Nov 21, 2021)

xyokoma said:


> I’m doing great the way I am, thanks! 😀
> 
> You, on the other hand, look like you’ve been thinking about this for a little too long. I get it - I’m too awesome to be forgotten so quick!


I'm always trying to improve the human race, one way or another, no need to thank me.

I guess you are one of those that need to be sent through the chimney, what a pity, your artistic talent in drawing nissan fate will be missed 🥲


----------



## xyokoma (Nov 21, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> I'm always trying to improve the human race, one way or another, no need to thank me.
> 
> I guess you are one of those that need to be sent through the chimney, what a pity, your artistic talent in drawing nissan fate will be missed 🥲


If your words are anything to go by, there is no saving for the human race.


----------



## Samp3i (Nov 21, 2021)

xyokoma said:


> If your words are anything to go by, there is no saving for the human race.


I agree, biggest regret is that I'll never see the world burning down.


----------



## JuiceTrain (Nov 21, 2021)

✋🏾...🛑
This thread seems pretty.... Juicey (😼)

TLDR- what page to start 
 But for now...cliff notes...I need em' 

read back to page 13,
and it seems like Tren turned a man ghey lol 

no judgement....just want to sip some tea 🍵

-But not the Tren tea 
keep that one on the shelf 😄😄


----------



## JuiceTrain (Nov 21, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> I agree, biggest regret is that I'll never see the world burning down.



We're sailing in the same boat on that one...


----------



## Send0 (Nov 21, 2021)

JuiceTrain said:


> We're sailing in the same boat on that one...


Contrary to how I act, I'm actually down for this party.


----------



## Samp3i (Nov 21, 2021)

JuiceTrain said:


> We're sailing in the same boat on that one...


you will never know my brother in iron, life is full of surprises.
Sit tight and we will see.. even tho I don't think we will enjoy that spectacle, I don't plan to live that long anyway.


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 21, 2021)

Dude has got me skipping workouts to do some partner cardio. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Send0 (Nov 21, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Dude has got me skipping workouts to do some partner cardio. 🤷🏻‍♂️


That's not a thing though. He making you do something that's not a thing 😂


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 21, 2021)

Send0 said:


> That's not a thing though. He making you do something that's not a thing 😂


Sorry if I wasn’t clear about the Innued0.

Does the 0 help it make sense? Ha.


----------



## TomJ (Nov 21, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Sorry if I wasn’t clear about the Innued0.
> 
> Does the 0 help it make sense? Ha.


Is the 0 because it's in his name? Are you inviting send to join your partner cardio?

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## Send0 (Nov 21, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Sorry if I wasn’t clear about the Innued0.
> 
> Does the 0 help it make sense? Ha.


I was reading it as in your bf wants you to do partner cardio, kind of like a workout partner to spot you. 😂


----------



## Imthedaddy (Nov 21, 2021)

TomJ said:


> Is the 0 because it's in his name? Are you inviting send to join your partner cardio?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


I have this exact problem.


----------



## TomJ (Nov 21, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I was reading it as in your bf wants you to do partner cardio, kind of like a workout partner to spot you.


Oh you poor, naive summer child.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## TeddyBear (Nov 21, 2021)

Realized.
It doesn’t take much to tweak my gym clothes a little.
Pair some red classic striped gym socks, 80s shorts… good for gym.

When I get to his place, swap tank for a jersey and I’m his QB…

The roller rink just reopened after years, so it’s an UNironic hot spot for people this week looking for some retro fun. It’s our first date that is public and not just dining out. Where I can have a partner dance.


----------



## Send0 (Nov 21, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Realized.
> It doesn’t take much to tweak my gym clothes a little.
> Pair some red classic striped gym socks, 80s shorts… good for gym.
> 
> ...


I remember the roller rink... I hated it. As a kid I sucked so bad at skating  😅


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## The Phoenix (Nov 22, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I was reading it as in your bf wants you to do partner cardio, kind of like a workout partner to spot you. 😂


I think he has him doing squats? LOL


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 22, 2021)

Baby steps;
My guy and I went roller skating.

I then posted a picture of us to social media.
No caption, no context (but the skates), we’re wearing complimentary outfits.

But it’s the first pic of us and I broke my month of social media silence. Figured it’s a “if you know , you know”.

Also, the inner leg adductors and stuff. The good girl bad girl muscles I don’t train in machines

Those are DEAD from skating

I’m so glad I didn’t hit legs as planned today


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 22, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Baby steps;
> My guy and I went roller skating.
> 
> I then posted a picture of us to social media.
> ...



I killed mine today (see online journal) and I topped my workout  with inner and outer adductors hyper set with DB DL. 


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## TomJ (Nov 22, 2021)

I literally never when on adductors. But I also never skate. So I guess stay as she goes lol


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 23, 2021)

Midday I contacted my ex, to explain what’s going on in my life before she hears it from someone else. As a courtesy.

I’m nervous about it. She hasn’t responded, she also doesn’t need to. I told her and didn’t need to. But it was the right thing to do, I believe.

She’s entitled to feel whatever she does, especially when she sees I went from a short Latina with strong Native American features, masters, and love of travel for a short Latino with a great beard, tattoos, and better gaming skills than me.

After her, the last steps will be meeting friends and family Wed and Thur. So these nerves may soon be put to ease.

At least regarding my identity, if not work (which is it’s own drama source big time too).

The fact that im able to read for pleasure the past three days, speaks to a renewed sense of focus and fading fatigue.

I hope things are turning around.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Midday I contacted my ex, to explain what’s going on in my life before she hears it from someone else. As a courtesy.
> 
> I’m nervous about it. She hasn’t responded, she also doesn’t need to. I told her and didn’t need to. But it was the right thing to do, I believe.
> 
> ...



Best of situations for you brother. Will be praying for safe travels for you.


----------



## Imthedaddy (Nov 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Midday I contacted my ex, to explain what’s going on in my life before she hears it from someone else. As a courtesy.
> 
> I’m nervous about it. She hasn’t responded, she also doesn’t need to. I told her and didn’t need to. But it was the right thing to do, I believe.
> 
> ...


Pics of bf please. 😜


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 23, 2021)

Imthedaddy said:


> Pics of bf please. 😜


----------



## Yano (Nov 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> View attachment 15507
> View attachment 15508


Oh thank God that's his hair , in that second pic I thought he had a Blossom hat on. You two look good together !


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> View attachment 15507
> View attachment 15508


I was going to post the outside one for you but glad you did it instead.  You both look very happy.


----------



## Imthedaddy (Nov 23, 2021)

🥰


----------



## Samp3i (Nov 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> View attachment 15507
> View attachment 15508


I hope you are the one on the left 😂

Cheers man! Enjoy life


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 23, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> I hope you are the one on the left 😂
> 
> Cheers man! Enjoy life


Yes, I am. But maybe someday he’ll be a lifting buddy. He’s short, but broad shoulders as is. I told him to hit some arms and legs.


----------



## Samp3i (Nov 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Yes, I am. But maybe someday he’ll be a lifting buddy. He’s short, but broad shoulders as is. I told him to hit some arms and legs.


I was more joking about the outfit and hair. Who cares if he doesn't lift, not everyone aspire to have a bodybuilder physique. It's all right


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 24, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> I was more joking about the outfit and hair. Who cares if he doesn't lift, not everyone aspire to have a bodybuilder physique. It's all right



I agree. I’m not generally attached to other bodybuilders but my mang got into working out because he’s seen how I live my life. He was only 21 & I was 38. I’m 47 now and his years of training and supplementation has me reaping the benefits 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Imthedaddy (Nov 24, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I agree. I’m not generally attached to other bodybuilders but my mang got into working out because he’s seen how I live my life. He was only 21 & I was 38. I’m 47 now and his years of training and supplementation has me reaping the benefits
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Pics of bf please.  Ha. My guy doesn’t care about working out but I’ve definitely had some gains the past couple of years. I think he likes the attention I can get but knowing that I wouldn’t act on it.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 24, 2021)

Imthedaddy said:


> Pics of bf please. Ha. My guy doesn’t care about working out but I’ve definitely had some gains the past couple of years. I think he likes the attention I can get but knowing that I wouldn’t act on it.


This was for [2019] New Years cards.

Edit (he has long hair now)


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 24, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> This was for [2019] New Years cards.
> 
> Edit (he has long hair now)


You look much warmer/kinder in these pics than your normal weightlifting pics.


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 24, 2021)

dted23 said:


> You look much warmer/kinder in these pics than your normal weightlifting pics.


That's cos I come across as a real hard-ass in the gym.  I'm actually as sweet as a gummy bear.


----------



## Samp3i (Nov 24, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I agree. I’m not generally attached to other bodybuilders but my mang got into working out because he’s seen how I live my life. He was only 21 & I was 38. I’m 47 now and his years of training and supplementation has me reaping the benefits
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Are you gay? I think I had miss that part 

Ok I read the post above, you are. Now your joke about fun in the sack makes more sense 😜


----------



## TeddyBear (Nov 28, 2021)

11/27/21

*I asked my guy to be my boyfriend and we’re official.*

He believes “social media is the illusion of relationship” which I thought was pretty wise. I put so much importance on “making it official” but my loved ones and the people who matter already know.

Part of it stings a little, knowing that a tiny tiny fraction of the people I care about responded with “read” to my texts explaining or messages. That they see this as a moral failing, despite my best efforts Id hope they trust Im trying my hardest to do what’s right.

But now, I’m “out”. My family knows, my friends know, my church knows, my coworkers know. Anyone who cares to observe me online knows. It’s done.

Now I’m going to live my life as best I can. Live it honestly, openly, respectfully. Live it as an example. I’m a Christian and I want others to see a life of fullness, love, trust, sacrifice, and service. I hope my relationship models that kind of love. I want to be a light to my boyfriend and this process to be a light to others too.

Things may change, feelings and thoughts may change. But I never stopped wanting to do what’s right.

For a while my life has gone from grief, to sexual dysfunction, to performance anxiety, to shame, to questioning, to exploring, to fear.

Right now, I’m still in a very scary situation with work.

But whereas I felt like I had one catastrophic life change after another, at least this one too has passed because now I’m happy to say I have a boyfriend.


----------



## Yano (Nov 28, 2021)

dted23 said:


> View attachment 15713
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right on !! Желаю тебе удачи !!!  ( I wish you luck)


----------



## The Phoenix (Nov 28, 2021)

Yano said:


> Right on !! Желаю тебе удачи !!! ( I wish you luck)



¿På Ruski? ¿Elladaise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## The Phoenix (Nov 28, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Are you gay? I think I had miss that part
> 
> Ok I read the post above, you are. Now your joke about fun in the sack makes more sense



Yes I like how perceptive you are Sampy; and yes it is a saying not because I think you’re sexy but I tend to use a little sarcasm-like when you say you despise the human race but you still want to fnck them regardless of their condition (shitty or not). With someone like that it could only be fun (sic). Hope you don’t take offense; if I am teasing you or giving you a hard time is because I like you (as in you’re cool ). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Samp3i (Nov 28, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Yes I like how perceptive you are Sampy; and yes it is a saying not because I think you’re sexy but I tend to use a little sarcasm-like when you say you despise the human race but you still want to fnck them regardless of their condition (shitty or not). With someone like that it could only be fun (sic). Hope you don’t take offense; if I am teasing you or giving you a hard time is because I like you (as in you’re cool ).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Why would I take offense, that would be against everything I have said around here. I don't feel like you are giving me a hard time.

Very perceptive right? 🤦

so you don't think I'm sexy? Now I'm offended! 😂😂😂


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## The Phoenix (Nov 28, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Why would I take offense, that would be against everything I have said around here. I don't feel like you are giving me a hard time.
> 
> Very perceptive right?
> 
> so you don't think I'm sexy? Now I'm offended!



I think you look great; very muscular and well defined. I’m just not generally attracted to other BB’ers (might have something to do with incompatibility). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Yano (Nov 28, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> ¿På Ruski? ¿Elladaise?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Grandfather on my moms side was from Samara , Don Cossack. I cant speak it very well just a few things , best wishes and certain sentiment should be spoken in something close to one's heart i figure. After all he's been through lately seemed appropriate.


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## Dex (Nov 28, 2021)

Well, I don't find the anticlimactic blow job to be odd at all. Most girls couldn't make me cum like that. My wife has only gotten me to a few times in 10 years and that is with me really trying. I would see how coitus goes and go form there. If there is still an issue, get some labs done.
Also, if you are on gear, that could be it. I had so much trouble climaxing on a cycle of test and deca.


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## Hughinn (Nov 28, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Can you be a believer without following any particular religion and their cherry picked rules?
> 
> I'd choose happiness.




I don't know anything about what it's like to be gay.   There seems to be quite a few gay guys around here, so for the record, what I'm going to say here doesn't necessarily have to with being gay, as much as it's a reference on religion and/or spirituality. 

@CJ275 makes a good point in the post above about religion about cherry picked rules.  

But for the original poster here @dted23 you gotta ask yourself,  what is religion except a fixed set of rules,  beliefs and practices that a given group adheres strictly to and universally agree upon?  That's what religion is.  

I've got to admit, I'm not a religious man myself, but I struggle with concept of being gay and devoutly religious.  As the practice of homesexuality itself is quite clearly in direct violation of most common religious dogmas.  

That being said, and not in any way meant to be offensive,  I gotta wonder, why is it so important to be devoutly religious to you @dted23 ?    
I don't see how being gay means that you can't be a moral and spiritual person in your own right without formal association with religion.    
We all have to make peace with ourselves in the end anyway, and at the end of the day, we face it alone.   We all have to set our own standards and ethics.  

I just feel like being homosexual and demanding or persisting I should rather say in being a part of the church is asking them to compromise what they believe on your behalf.   And putting them in position where they have to balance the respect and care they have for you personally,  against thier own religious faith.   

I'll admit I'm on the outside looking in at both of the main issues here because I'm not gay or religious.   So I might be missing something.  
But, it seems to me that you're simply in a spot where every man eventually finds himself regardless of faith or sexuality,  and that is you've got to make peace with yourself.  

The best advice I could give in that aspect, is to live by your own rules, set your own standards and ethics, because any man who let's another set his code for him, is therefore a subject of that other.   So be your own man.  

As far as God, I myself believe in God.   And I believe God has rules and there is a right and wrong. 

I don't believe saying goddamn it is blasphemy.   But killing something needlessly for the sake of killing is blasphemy.  

Being a coward, is a sin.   And to me cowards live in hell, they don't have to wait to be sent there, because they've made it themselves and live in it.  Same with a chickenshit,  a liar and a cheat.  

So don't ever be afraid to be yourself,  your righteousness is in how well you live by your own standards,  be that guy.  And don't make any apologies for it.   Because I live by my standards for me.   It doesn't matter what anyone else says or thinks.   I know what kind of motherfucker I am.   And I'm good with it. 

You don't need a church for that little brother.  And it doesn't matter who you choose to lay with either.   Because the answer isn't in a church or in the eyes of the people around you.   Its inside of you.   You alone.


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## Samp3i (Nov 28, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I think you look great; very muscular and well defined. I’m just not generally attracted to other BB’ers (might have something to do with incompatibility).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Just joking man 😜

Incompatibility like: there can be only one big guy here 😂?


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## Samp3i (Nov 28, 2021)

Hughinn said:


> I don't know anything about what it's like to be gay.   There seems to be quite a few gay guys around here, so for the record, what I'm going to say here doesn't necessarily have to with being gay, as much as it's a reference on religion and/or spirituality.
> 
> @CJ275 makes a good point in the post above about religion about cherry picked rules.
> 
> ...


Well said Hughin.


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## Dex (Nov 28, 2021)

Why was it a shit post, Samp3i?


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## Samp3i (Nov 28, 2021)

Dex said:


> Why was it a shit post, Samp3i?


Because you didn't fucking read the whole thread lol 

His fellatio erection problem are well gone 😂


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## The Phoenix (Nov 28, 2021)

Hughinn said:


> I don't know anything about what it's like to be gay.   There seems to be quite a few gay guys around here, so for the record, what I'm going to say here doesn't necessarily have to with being gay, as much as it's a reference on religion and/or spirituality.
> 
> @CJ275 makes a good point in the post above about religion about cherry picked rules.
> 
> ...


 There are much bigger issues that being gay.  I think @dted23 find fulfillment in his life to what has been traditional to his family.  There is nothing wrong with contributing to the norm or stereotype, perhaps he defines himself differently that you.  I am 47 and I have always prided myself on being different.  He's applying a more contemporary version of himself to the same concept.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 29, 2021)

Dex said:


> Why was it a shit post, Samp3i?


sorry you came to the party late bro, you gotta read about 1/2 back where things take a turn.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 29, 2021)

Yano said:


> Grandfather on my moms side was from Samara , Don Cossack. I cant speak it very well just a few things , best wishes and certain sentiment should be spoken in something close to one's heart i figure. After all he's been through lately seemed appropriate.



Kazak; gotcha. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Dex (Nov 29, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> sorry you came to the party late bro, you gotta read about 1/2 back where things take a turn.


True story. I only read the first post and responded to it.


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## blundig (Nov 29, 2021)

creekrat said:


> dted23,
> 
> Don't let anyone belittle or make you feel like less of a man because you stuck to your guns.  I applaud you sir.  Now let's get down to business.  Every first time sexual act has very unreal expectations as well as a great deal of stress.
> 
> ...


This is exactly my approach.


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## blundig (Nov 29, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Lol, so? I don’t do it often, do you think that may have been a factor? Is it a bad idea?


If you edge for a long time, you're used to cumming much later. I don't know how long the oral sex episode was. Plus, did you cum the day before?


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## blundig (Nov 29, 2021)

double post deleted


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## Hughinn (Nov 29, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> There are much bigger issues that being gay.  I think @dted23 find fulfillment in his life to what has been traditional to his family.  There is nothing wrong with contributing to the norm or stereotype, perhaps he defines himself differently that you.  I am 47 and I have always prided myself on being different.  He's applying a more contemporary version of himself to the same concept.



I agree. 
After reading through his thread, I don't think his homesexuality is as much the source of his anxiety and unrest, as much as as it's making peace with himself. 

Like I said, I'm not religious or gay, but I'm well over 40 myself and remember what it's like to be a young man making peace with himself.  And we all go through that. 

It's just my opinion,  and I admit I don't personally know what it's like to be gay.  But, I think the young man is making a bigger deal out of it in his own mind than the world ever will.    Speaking for myself here, I just honestly really don't think it matters as much as he may think.  To some people,  sure.   To most, not really. 

Making peace with a man's own self, is going to outweigh any specific issue that's part of him.  Being gay included.  Because in truth, most people really don't care.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 29, 2021)

I really don’t know what I’m doing.

A


Hughinn said:


> I agree.
> After reading through his thread, I don't think his homesexuality is as much the source of his anxiety and unrest, as much as as it's making peace with himself.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not religious or gay, but I'm well over 40 myself and remember what it's like to be a young man making peace with himself.  And we all go through that.
> ...


Youre right.

I care too much about the perception and opinions of others. I care so much about doing things “right”. I want to do everything I do well.

I’ve accepted I’m gay. I just don’t know what step comes next.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 29, 2021)

Hughinn said:


> I agree.
> After reading through his thread, I don't think his homesexuality is as much the source of his anxiety and unrest, as much as as it's making peace with himself.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not religious or gay, but I'm well over 40 myself and remember what it's like to be a young man making peace with himself.  And we all go through that.
> ...



I totally agree with you brother but we say that with years behind us.  I started meeting up with guys since I was 21, but didn't come out in the sense that I could admit I was gay until I was 36 and that is cos I moved out of the big city I was so widely known in my area of business.  I came to terms as people and places of employment were just getting used to it.  I staid in the closet for many years during my early career.  I commend @dted23 for wanting to take the quicker, wiser route and make peace with it now.  In all my years and experience, he has that much on me.  He makes me want to be a better man.  That is the light @dted23 is talking about.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 29, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I totally agree with you brother but we say that with years behind us.  I started meeting up with guys since I was 21, but didn't come out in the sense that I could admit I was gay until I was 36 and that is cos I moved out of the big city I was so widely known in my area of business.  I came to terms as people and places of employment were just getting used to it.  I staid in the closet for many years during my early career.  I commend @dted23 for wanting to take the quicker, wiser route and make peace with it now.  In all my years and experience, he has that much on me.  He makes me want to be a better man.  That is the light @dted23 is talking about.


I owe so much of this to privilege and timing. It would be harder as a younger less established man, I at least know who I am and who my friends are. 

I also live in California, I’m white, and I had the advantage that men like you have forged the path.

I just want to be honest. I’ve been as transparent as possible throughout this thread because I (needed to think out loud, needed support, and confess) but also because I think if we’re honest with each other we’d understand.

Understanding brings compassion.


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## Samp3i (Nov 29, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I really don’t know what I’m doing.
> 
> A
> 
> ...


Remember this:

“Care about what other people think, and you will always be their prisoner.” 

😘


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## Yano (Nov 29, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Kazak; gotcha.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Such a beautiful place. For you my friend straight from the Altai Mountains.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 29, 2021)

Yano said:


> Such a beautiful place. For you my friend straight from the Altai Mountains.



Çox sağ olun!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## blundig (Nov 29, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I really don’t know what I’m doing.
> 
> A
> 
> ...


There's nothing particular to do next except live. You should also realize right now that no one in the slightest cares about or is interested in your sex life, just like you're not in the slightest bit interested in my sex life (necrophilia, bestiality, etc) or that of the other members of the forum.


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## Samp3i (Nov 29, 2021)

blundig said:


> There's nothing particular to do next except live. You should also realize right now that no one in the slightest cares about or is interested in your sex life, just like you're not in the slightest bit interested in my sex life (necrophilia, bestiality, etc) or that of the other members of the forum.


Love me some bestiality. 2pumpscum when watching some dog or horse smashing dat pussy


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## blundig (Nov 29, 2021)

Samp3i said:


> Love me some bestiality. 2pumpscum when watching some dog or horse smashing dat pussy


I'll have to try watching instead of direct participation.


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## Samp3i (Nov 29, 2021)

blundig said:


> I'll have to try watching instead of direct participation.


😂 I'm getting a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog to my wife soon


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## blundig (Nov 29, 2021)

That might create an interesting wolfman hybrid also. Sending you a message.


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## TeddyBear (Dec 3, 2021)

At the start of every month, there is a downtown festival with food trucks, live music, and the local breweries all set up shop.

I’ve lived here and never went. Because it’s not my scene and most of friends don’t make a habit of going either.

In August, 2021, I wrestled with my sexuality. I went to a really dark place of confusion, self-hate, and fear. I wanted to lose my virginity. I didn’t go to the festival because I had no reason to. That month I lost my virginity and hated the shame, guilt, and disappointment that came with it. I wallowed in the emotions that came with this change: learning I was a sexual being, I failed my own standards, and I felt like I could tell no one why I was shrinking into my own self revulsion.

In September 2021, two of my friends from work had noticed how anxious and depressed I had become. I withdrew and became a shadow of myself. They took me, encouraged me to drink, but didn’t pressure me. They wanted me to see that I can go to these events without being pestered to participate in any specific way. They encouraged me to try to pick up on chicks, I barely tried and felt really insecure. 

As the designated driver, I brought the second friend to his house and he asked me, based on intuition: “when you lost your virginity, was it to a man?” I said “yes”, and he was the first person other than my therapist I told the whole truth to. He offered only an ear and no judgement, I dropped him off.

That month, although I hated it, I explored quite a bit sexually on Grindr. I hated the impersonal and greedy nature of it, the lack of safety. But it was so tempting and so easy, and so new to me. 29 years without sex and now I could have a new partner almost hourly if I wanted.

October 2021, I said I was done with hookups. I didn’t go to the festival because I had made plans with my family. I was talking to a guy, made plans to be FWB. Though I planned on telling no one. I told him, I won’t ever come out and I don’t want to date you, FWB is all we will be.

Of course, that month I told family and friends one-by-one to overwhelming support. Each conversation was emotionally difficult and draining for me, but I was met with love.

November, 2021, I took my FWB to a few places for dates. Dinner out, walks in the park. But the festival was where I publically held hands with him for the first time. I called it our first real date.

We then continued to see each other very regularly, we were naturally exclusive, both swore off app dating. I introduced him to friends, family, and then came out to my church community. After all of that, I came out publicly on social media to cover the rest of my bases (aunts, neighbors, coworkers, etc). I asked him to be my boyfriend.

Yesterday, in December 2021, we went on our date together. We held hands, danced, hugged, kissed, and enjoyed ourselves. It felt natural and without fear.

It’s really been a ride.


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## Send0 (Dec 3, 2021)

dted23 said:


> At the start of every month, there is a downtown festival with food trucks, live music, and the local breweries all set up shop.
> 
> I’ve lived here and never went. Because it’s not my scene and most of friends don’t make a habit of going either.
> 
> ...


You're an incredible person dted... I hope you know that. You've had a hell of a year, but your personal growth and development has been amazing to say the least.

I hope you're proud of what you've accomplished this year. This isnt much, but personally I'm proud for you. 😁


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## TeddyBear (Dec 3, 2021)

Send0 said:


> You're an incredible person dted... I hope you know that. You've had a hell of a year, but your personal growth and development has been amazing to say the least.
> 
> I hope you're proud of what you've accomplished this year. This isnt much, but personally I'm proud for you. 😁


@Send0 @The Phoenix you and others here were a big support.

I know I can come off as stubborn, inconsistent, and dramatic.
I’m usually not as bad as I have been. I’m just inexperienced, prone to overthinking and fear.

I’m not out of the woods yet, next week I should have a better indicator of how work is going. I’m still exploring the intersection of my faith and sexuality.

But hopefully I can continue that exploration with the security of a job I love.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 14, 2022)

dted23 said:


> *This is my 1,000th post.*
> I don't know where I fall on the sexuality spectrum, but it's definitely leaning closer to _gay_.
> 
> *Recap:*
> ...


I know this is an old post but I just wanted to say that I'm so proud of you for coming out. It's absolutely amazing to have a gay member on the forum! Talk about diversity on UGBB. You might get some homophobia at church, in the bodybuilding world from meatheads ect, but tell them to go fuck themselves. 

You are doing amazing. I was so glad, I've read the entire thread! It was so rejuvenating to see you slowly accept yourself for who you are. Poor you, always confirming with himself that he's still a good person, and isn't an abomination because a man in the sky told him he was (this includes both our gods). 

I just want you to be happy bro, and to keep doing what you love (men!).


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## Imthedaddy (Apr 14, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I know this is an old post but I just wanted to say that I'm so proud of you for coming out. It's absolutely amazing to have a gay member on the forum! Talk about diversity on UGBB. You might get some homophobia at church, in the bodybuilding world from meatheads ect, but tell them to go fuck themselves.
> 
> You are doing amazing. I was so glad, I've read the entire thread! It was so rejuvenating to see you slowly accept yourself for who you are. Poor you, always confirming with himself that he's still a good person, and isn't an abomination because a man in the sky told him he was (this includes both our gods).
> 
> I just want you to be happy bro, and to keep doing what you love (men!).


FWIW plenty of other gay/bi men on here.


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## white ape (Apr 15, 2022)

@Imthedaddy I was going to say that as well. I think 25% are open and the other 75% are closeted or curious. At least looking at the popularity of the tranny posts.


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## The Phoenix (Apr 15, 2022)

white ape said:


> @Imthedaddy I was going to say that as well. I think 25% are open and the other 75% are closeted or curious. At least looking at the popularity of the tranny posts.



It’s typically the closeted ones that are into the trannies. I don’t think gay men are into trannies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Samp3i (Apr 16, 2022)

The Phoenix said:


> It’s typically the closeted ones that are into the trannies. I don’t think gay men are into trannies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah I mean Gay like men not girls with a dick. It's the eterosexual curious crowd that like trannies 🥰

For different reasons of course.
I for example don't have a problem with trannies but I'm not interested in the dick, I just don't care about it, some trannies are too hot to let a dick stop you 😂


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