# First DNP Cycle!



## lseactuary90 (Mar 16, 2022)

Here is my plan:

1 DNP in the morning, empty stomach with water, wait 30 mins before having the first meal for 2 weeks only. 
Gym still 3x a week min, 4x if I can. 
30 mins cardio per day (brisk walk). 
Continue 0.6ml test + 0.6ml deca 3x a week and AI EOD. 
3.5k cals, 350g carb, 83g fat, 315g protein.

Aiming to burn out ~10lb fat.

Starting point according to the DEXA taken on 03/13/2022 files attached. I also added my starting point before I did my cycle this year so you can see progress just on the cycle and diet and training. First is before any steroids / was off training for a while because of an illness etc so my 'worst' body. The after is as of last Sunday.


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## lifter6973 (Mar 16, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Here is my plan:
> 
> 1 DNP in the morning, empty stomach with water, wait 30 mins before having the first meal for 2 weeks only.
> Gym still 3x a week min, 4x if I can.
> ...


So once a day?  What is your dose?


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## Valdosta (Mar 17, 2022)

have u tried dieting instead?


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> So once a day?  What is your dose?


Yup once a day in the morning. This is best right? 
200mg / capsule but double checking.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

Valdosta said:


> have u tried dieting instead?


Yes. Below 2k cals I don't loose fat, I start to loose muscle (2k is maintenance for me). I also get really ill if I eat too low and then the fat loss isn't worth it. It is funny as I lost fat while bulking here (3lb) and on gear so I think generally if I keep training and eating clean then I can get to a point of fat loss and recomp but just using DNP to escalate this a little. 

I think its maybe how the fat is distributed / it isn't bundled into 1 area. It takes a very large and painful cut to loose any kind of fat and I've done plenty of T3, tren, clen cycles before and there has been a shift but nothing significant.

I know this is "cheating" a bit but I'm not doing it for a 6 pack, doing it to get my fat mass down.


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Yes. Below 2k cals I don't loose fat, I start to loose muscle (2k is maintenance for me). I also get really ill if I eat too low and then the fat loss isn't worth it. It is funny as I lost fat while bulking here (3lb) and on gear so I think generally if I keep training and eating clean then I can get to a point of fat loss and recomp but just using DNP to escalate this a little.
> 
> I think its maybe how the fat is distributed / it isn't bundled into 1 area. It takes a very large and painful cut to loose any kind of fat and I've done plenty of T3, tren, clen cycles before and there has been a shift but nothing significant.
> 
> I know this is "cheating" a bit but I'm not doing it for a 6 pack, doing it to get my fat mass down.


So you weigh 207lbs? There's no way you aren't losing weight at 2k calories.

Can you list everything you ate on March 8th 2022?


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## Valdosta (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Yes. Below 2k cals I don't loose fat, I start to loose muscle (2k is maintenance for me). I also get really ill if I eat too low and then the fat loss isn't worth it. It is funny as I lost fat while bulking here (3lb) and on gear so I think generally if I keep training and eating clean then I can get to a point of fat loss and recomp but just using DNP to escalate this a little.
> 
> I think its maybe how the fat is distributed / it isn't bundled into 1 area. It takes a very large and painful cut to loose any kind of fat and I've done plenty of T3, tren, clen cycles before and there has been a shift but nothing significant.
> 
> I know this is "cheating" a bit but I'm not doing it for a 6 pack, doing it to get my fat mass down.


cheating against who? I just think u could probably do it without dnp. Your maintenance is probably above 2k; youre bigger than the avg joe and exercise more.


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

Valdosta said:


> cheating against who? I just think u could probably do it without dnp. Your maintenance is probably above 2k; youre bigger than the avg joe and exercise more.


He's 207lbs. His maintenance is definitely well above 2000 calories.

He's probably eating more than he thinks, and not working out as hard as he thinks he is. Also 30 minutes of cardio a day isn't much really. It takes a while just to get heart rate up to a good zone; so at best he's doing 15-20 minutes of cardio that's actually worth anything.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

So I was just below 200lbs before I started the cycle. The DEXA shows my maintenance is 2k cals, but I agree, its probably higher around 2.5k. I track on myfitnesspal and eat the same thing daily and measure all. I have a PT for workouts. I am gaining the muscle on cycle in the right places so the workouts must be working? Noted on the cardio -- will try this.


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## TODAY (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> So I was just below 200lbs before I started the cycle. The DEXA shows my maintenance is 2k cals, but I agree, its probably higher around 2.5k. I track on myfitnesspal and eat the same thing daily and measure all. I have a PT for workouts. I am gaining the muscle on cycle in the right places so the workouts must be working? Noted on the cardio -- will try this.


Post your myfitnesspal log for the last week.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

Please see attached.


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Please see attached.


So you ate 3500 calories, and not 2000?


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## metsfan4life (Mar 17, 2022)

this just doesnt really seem like a logical meal plan IMHO. i just see a bunch of replacement shakes/snacks and dairy. maybe im blind tho


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

Send0 said:


> So you ate 3500 calories, and not 2000?


I was asked for my recent diet no? 
The 2000 calories is basically the same, just less of everything, and no mass shake.


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I was asked for my recent diet no?
> The 2000 calories is basically the same, just less of everything, and no mass shake.


Yeah, so where is your log of that?


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

I weigh less than you, eat more than you, and can drop weight at a higher caloric intake.

Dropping weight is just energy expenditure. Burn more calories than you are taking in.

So again, either you are eating more calories than you think, or you aren't pushing yourself as hard in the gym as you should be to expend energy.

If we take your DEXA at face value, at 207lbs and 24% body fat, then your maintenance is more like 2800-2900 calories. No one's metabolism is so slow that their maintenance would drop all the way down to 2000 calories at this weight.

Just like your other post, your story doesn't add up brother.


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## Valdosta (Mar 17, 2022)

u could very easily eat less instead of running the dnp


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## Adrenolin (Mar 17, 2022)

Too many liquid protein sources and WAYYY too much sodium. 1500mg of sodium is a high day for me.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I weigh less than you, eat more than you, and can drop weight at a higher caloric intake.
> 
> Dropping weight is just energy expenditure. Burn more calories than you are taking in.
> 
> ...


I was just sharing the resting calorie intake the DEXA said. If maintenance is 2.8-2.9k cals, I can drop some calories from the current diet, and I should get good results on DNP?


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

Adrenolin said:


> Too many liquid protein sources and WAYYY too much sodium. 1500mg of sodium is a high day for me.


It is quite hard to get it at 1500mg. The egg whites alone are above 1500mg.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> It is quite hard to get it at 1500mg. The egg whites alone are above 1500mg.


That's because you're using liquid egg whites


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## JuiceTrain (Mar 17, 2022)

Pm @samrooo77 to let him know your progress....he tracks everyone's DNP progress because he's a Frenchie


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I was just sharing the resting calorie intake the DEXA said. If maintenance is 2.8-2.9k cals, I can drop some calories from the current diet, and I should get good results on DNP?


You're either leaving out information, or just not making sense. You said earlier you can't lose weight at 2000 calories.

I also don't see anywhere on your DEXA where it shows your caloric intake. Even if I assume your caloric intake was based on your lean mass shown in the DEXA, then this would put you at 2400 calories for maintenance after you factor in workouts at a moderator intensity.

To hit 2000 calories, you would calculate your lean body mass and also do nothing but sit on your ass all day (I'm not joking)

My question is this... Are you currently eating 2000 calories right now or not?


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

Adrenolin said:


> That's because you're using liquid egg whites


I feel the need to say that not everyone is affected by sodium intake.

I seem to be able to have as much as I want _(within reason, I can't eat a tub of pure salt 😅)_ and it doesn't effect me any differently than when I tried to cut out most of my sodium. I currently take in 3000-3500mg of sodium per day.

Everyone will be different, but I believe sodium intake to be an individual thing... and not a rule across the board. The obvious exception would be someone prepping to be stage ready.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 17, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I feel the need to say that not everyone is affected by sodium intake.
> 
> I seem to be able to have as much as I want _(within reason, I can't eat a tub of pure salt 😅)_ and it doesn't effect me any differently than when I tried to cut out most of my sodium. I currently take in 3000-3500mg of sodium per day..


So do I when I'm bulking, but I draw it back when cutting, even more so on dnp.


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## Trump (Mar 17, 2022)

Send0 said:


> He's 207lbs. His maintenance is definitely well above 2000 calories.
> 
> He's probably eating more than he thinks, and not working out as hard as he thinks he is. Also 30 minutes of cardio a day isn't much really. It takes a while just to get heart rate up to a good zone; so at best he's doing 15-20 minutes of cardio that's actually worth anything.


Is there a zone to burn fat? Surely if your moving your  burning calories it doesn’t matter where your heart rate is


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

Trump said:


> Is there a zone to burn fat? Surely if your moving your  burning calories it doesn’t matter where your heart rate is


I kind of feel like you know what I really meant, but I'll play along.

I'm saying it takes some time to get out of resting heart rate or just slightly above. Sure you'll lose weight by moving, but why would you waste time doing it at a lower heart rate?

No need to be at something ridiculous like 170 bpm, but IMO you're wasting time if you're only doing 30 minutes of cardio a day and it takes you 15 minutes to get up to 120 bpm. Why not do cardio for a bit longer, where a person can take advantage of a sustained elevated heart rate?

Will you lose weight by only doing 30 minutes, regardless of heart rate... Sure you will, but it's not as efficient as if you sustained an elevated heart rate for a longer period of time.


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

As far as why it takes a while to hit a "target" heart rate is due to cardiovascular drift. The longer you are doing cardio at a fixed pace, then the more your heart rate will increase over time.

"Target" in this context just means the heart rate that seems to work best for fat loss for an individual. For me I like LISS cardio, so I use about 65% of my max heart rate. My personal max heart rate is 200bpm... so my "target" heart rate is ~130bpm.

I suppose a person could try to shortcut this by going all out for the first 5 minutes, but that only sort of works. In my experience you have to overshoot the heart rate you are aiming for, because it will drop back down a bit this early into a cardio session. I prefer to just stick to one pace from the start, and adjust that pace up or down as necessary.


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## Trump (Mar 17, 2022)

Send0 said:


> As far as why it takes a while to hit a "target" heart rate is due to cardiovascular drift. The longer you are doing cardio at a fixed pace, then the more your heart rate will increase over time.
> 
> "Target" in this context just means the heart rate that seems to work best for fat loss for an individual. For me I like LISS cardio, so I use about 65% of my max heart rate. My personal max heart rate is 200bpm... so my "target" heart rate is ~130bpm.
> 
> I suppose a person could try to shortcut this by going all out for the first 5 minutes, but that only sort of works. In my experience you have to overshoot the heart rate you are aiming for, because it will drop back down a bit this early into a cardio session. I prefer to just stick to one pace from the start, and adjust that pace up or down as necessary.


So if you walk 5 mile one day, jog 5 mile the next then interval run 5 miles the next the one with the highest heart rate will burn the most calories?


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

Send0 said:


> You're either leaving out information, or just not making sense. You said earlier you can't lose weight at 2000 calories.
> 
> I also don't see anywhere on your DEXA where it shows your caloric intake. Even if I assume your caloric intake was based on your lean mass shown in the DEXA, then this would put you at 2400 calories for maintenance after you factor in workouts at a moderator intensity.
> 
> ...


I do loose weight on 2000 calories but usually muscle not fat (at least this is what the DEXA shows). 
The full report in the DEXA showed resting metabolic rate which was 1.9k calories. 
I'm eating 3.5k calories now and have for the past 2-3 months, hence the before/after you see on the DEXA. I was doing 2k ish before then.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

I think this thread has gone haywire lol. 
Any inputs on my plan?


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## TODAY (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I do loose weight on 2000 calories but usually muscle not fat (at least this is what the DEXA shows).
> The full report in the DEXA showed resting metabolic rate which was 1.9k calories.
> I'm eating 3.5k calories now and have for the past 2-3 months, hence the before/after you see on the DEXA. I was doing 2k ish before then.


As has been explained to you repeatedly, DEXA scans are NOT accurate in this context.. You'd be well served putting those numbers out of your head.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

TODAY said:


> As has been explained to you repeatedly, DEXA scans are NOT accurate in this context.. You'd be well served putting those numbers out of your head.


It was just to measure progress not to index on the numbers.


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## RiR0 (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Please see attached.


What a shit diet


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## RiR0 (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> It was just to measure progress not to index on the numbers.


It’s not a good measure of anything. 
You could literally go take a shit and piss and get a completely different reading.


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## Beti ona (Mar 17, 2022)

Adrenolin said:


> Too many liquid protein sources and WAYYY too much sodium. 1500mg of sodium is a high day for me.


Thinking about it, sodium is the least of his problems, in fact if you run DNP it would be a good idea to increase the intake.


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## Beti ona (Mar 17, 2022)

You don't need dexa for god's sake, just eat a lot of protein, try to maintain your strength while dieting, look in the mirror and take pictures to assess your progress. This is what bodybuilders have been doing all their lives.

If you're on PEDs, how the hell are you going to lose muscle? Unless you're going to 4-5% body fat, it won't happen.

And your diet seems very high in calories, reduce CH to 100 grams or less, better doing keto, then gradually reduce fat, and do 40 minute cardio sessions, increasing 5 minutes every 2 weeks until you reach an hour. And later on, you'll need to add another cardio session if you don't want to cut your calories too low.


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## RiR0 (Mar 17, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> You don't need dexa for god's sake, just eat a lot of protein, try to maintain your strength while dieting, look in the mirror and take pictures to assess your progress. This is what bodybuilders have been doing all their lives.
> 
> If you're on PEDs, how the hell are you going to lose muscle? Unless you're going to 4-5% body fat, it won't happen.
> 
> And your diet seems very high in calories, reduce CH to 100 grams or less, better doing keto, then gradually reduce fat, and do 40 minute cardio sessions, increasing 5 minutes every 2 weeks until you reach an hour. And later on, you'll need to add another cardio session if you don't want to cut your calories too low.


He’s not gonna listen.


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## RiR0 (Mar 17, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I think this thread has gone haywire lol.
> Any inputs on my plan?


Lots but you choose to ignore it. Your whole plan is awful.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 17, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Lots but you choose to ignore it. Your whole plan is awful.


Any suggestions? What did I ignore? The forum said cut so I’m doing this no?


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## Send0 (Mar 17, 2022)

Trump said:


> So if you walk 5 mile one day, jog 5 mile the next then interval run 5 miles the next the one with the highest heart rate will burn the most calories?


Yes, jogging will obviously burn more calories... but from what fuel source? Aerobic vs anaerobic; combined with intensity level of the exercise, will determine which fuel source is used.

High intensity levels, regardless if it's aerobic or anaerobic, will pull primarily from glucose... which will come from the liver or muscle.

Low intensity aerobic exercise, such as walking, will prefer fat as the fuel source.

So while jogging will burn more calories, the question is what is your intensity and what is the goal.

If you want to burn primarily fat, then you should focus on low intensity aerobic. In which case it's going to take a while to get your heart rate up compared to jogging or running.

If you are going for cardiovascular stamina, and don't care about burning fat or potentially catabolizing muscle, then by all means run/jog at a high intensity to your hearts content.

If the link below is too long to read, then just focus on table 10.2 and figure 10.4; which breaks it down very simply. If you want to understand how it works, then read the whole article.






						Fuel Sources for Exercise – Nutrition: Science and Everyday Application, v. 1.0
					






					openoregon.pressbooks.pub


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 21, 2022)

Update:
Day 3. 
Slight headache and dry mouth but if I drink enough water it goes away fast and I’m ok.
Whenever I have any meals with carbs, about 39 mins later I do feel the heat but nothing crazy or uncontrollable. Just sitting in a cool place.
Slight lethargy in the mornings too but goes away once I have rested and food in the stomach.
Trying to eat carbs earlier in the day to avoid night sweat as last night it was uncomfortable.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 22, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Update:
> Day 3.
> Slight headache and dry mouth but if I drink enough water it goes away fast and I’m ok.
> Whenever I have any meals with carbs, about 39 mins later I do feel the heat but nothing crazy or uncontrollable. Just sitting in a cool place.
> ...


Keep the log going


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 23, 2022)

Day 5:
No headaches
Generally warmer but nothing unsustainable even through the night I'm generally ok
Seem to be down almost 3lbs
Appetite seems to have gone up but is manageable 
Had a few comments that I look like I've worked out just now


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## Trainline (Mar 24, 2022)

Enjoying the log.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 24, 2022)

Day 6:
Quite a bit of night sweat. Drank water 3-4 times during the night. Weight up a bit since yesterday but likely water. 
Generally more thirsty than hungry. Keeping the fluids going. 
Morning lethargy is a real thing. By afternoon I'm fine. Just warm. 
Starting to see the 'line' on the sides of my stomach coming through for the first time in my life.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 25, 2022)

Day 7: 
It was super cold and raining outside which helped as I slept better. 
Mostly stable otherwise. 
Weight drop seems to have plateaud but I've still been training etc so could also be muscle growth as I am stronger (still on test/deca). The DEXA should tell all.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 27, 2022)

Day 8:
Weight stable. Mild sweats. Lethargy kicked in after 3 hours brisk walk around my town.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 27, 2022)

Day 9: 
Weight stable still. Little bit sweat but slept through the night (also because the outside temperature is cold).


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 27, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Day 9:
> Weight stable still. Little bit sweat but slept through the night (also because the outside temperature is cold).


I wouldn't worry about the scale for another few days. The sweating means you're hot, if you're hot, your burning calories. Probably just water weight. I've lost 15-20kgs in 2 months.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 27, 2022)

DNP is one of the few things I have experience on, I've run 4 cycles. 

Anyways, will still remind you that I'm a noob at this shit.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 27, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I wouldn't worry about the scale for another few days. The sweating means you're hot, if you're hot, your burning calories. Probably just water weight. I've lost 15-20kgs in 2 months.


Yup not worried. Stomach definitely looking leaner. Likely is water weight as fluid intake as almost doubled for me.


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## HighHeater (Mar 27, 2022)

Key thing while running dnp - stay off the scale. You might bloat during and end up heavier till you come off or get lucky and not retain that much and see it drop. Or you’ll see aspects of both. Stay off the scale till you’re done otherwise you’re just gonna worry about what the scale says and then end up taking more


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 27, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> Key thing while running dnp - stay off the scale. You might bloat during and end up heavier till you come off or get lucky and not retain that much and see it drop. Or you’ll see aspects of both. Stay off the scale till you’re done otherwise you’re just gonna worry about what the scale says and then end up taking more


Yup sticking to the course and not taking more.  6 days left.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 28, 2022)

Day 10:
Weight stable. Slight night sweat but mostly comfortable. Looking less 'red' overall too.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 28, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Day 10:
> Weight stable. Slight night sweat but mostly comfortable. Looking less 'red' overall too.


How many days do you plan on running the cycle. Also, what lab is your DNP?


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 29, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> How many days do you plan on running the cycle. Also, what lab is your DNP?


14 days.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 29, 2022)

I think you'll lose 6-7lbs, that's my guess.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 29, 2022)

I've just got my scale. I went down from 94kgs to 78kgs after 2 cycles of dnp at 400mg each for 25 days. That's 16kgs (35lbs) and 0.7lb per day! So my results are just below average of 0.75.


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## metsfan4life (Mar 29, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I've just got my scale. I went down from 94kgs to 78kgs after 2 cycles of dnp at 400mg each for 25 days. That's 16kgs (35lbs) and 0.7lb per day! So my results are just below average of 0.75.


There’s no “average”. It’s really going to depend on each person. You were already pretty skinny so you have less to lose, therefore you’re avg/day will likely be lower than someone that is heavier and eating right may may lose more. Additionally you can run the same cycle 3x and get vastly different results. There are guys here that may lose .5/day and others I’ve seen with 1-1.5/day. There’s a science to dnp but even at that, it’s still a gamble on how exactly it’s going to go


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 29, 2022)

metsfan4life said:


> There’s no “average”. It’s really going to depend on each person. You were already pretty skinny so you have less to lose, therefore you’re avg/day will likely be lower than someone that is heavier and eating right may may lose more. Additionally you can run the same cycle 3x and get vastly different results. There are guys here that may lose .5/day and others I’ve seen with 1-1.5/day. There’s a science to dnp but even at that, it’s still a gamble on how exactly it’s going to go


Fair enough, but there is an average to the results. It's just a loose average. Yeah, I lost 12 of those Kgs the first time, 4 of them the second time so you're right.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 29, 2022)

Day 11:
Weight slightly down. Comfortable sleep due to the outside being freezing. Metabolism definitely better.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 31, 2022)

Day 12: 
Weight slightly up. Drinking fluid and keeping to diet. Comfortable sleep. Not having "hot feeling" during the day anymore (I think because outside its cool).


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 31, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Day 12:
> Weight slightly up. Drinking fluid and keeping to diet. Comfortable sleep. Not having "hot feeling" during the day anymore (I think because outside its cool).


Nice log! Keep it up! We wont know how much weight you've lost until a week and half after last pill. I did ask before, what lab is your DNP?


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 31, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Nice log! Keep it up! We wont know how much weight you've lost until a week and half after last pill. I did ask before, what lab is your DNP?


I brought from someone on the forum so not sure on the lab.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 31, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I brought from someone on the forum so not sure on the lab.


Im assuming it was HighHeater, can you show me a picture of what it looks like? Maybe we can tell by the colour how legit it Is.


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## lseactuary90 (Mar 31, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Im assuming it was HighHeater, can you show me a picture of what it looks like? Maybe we can tell by the colour how legit it Is.


Came in a silver packet. I emptied into a vitamin container. Its a yellow and green type capsule.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 31, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Came in a silver packet. I emptied into a vitamin container. Its a yellow and green type capsule.


Interesting.


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## HighHeater (Mar 31, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Im assuming it was HighHeater, can you show me a picture of what it looks like? Maybe we can tell by the colour how legit it Is.


No offense man but looking at a cap to determine how legit it is will never go well for ya. If someone is gonna fake DNP, they have some other issues at hand.


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## Intel.imperitive (Mar 31, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> No offense man but looking at a cap to determine how legit it is will never go well for ya. If someone is gonna fake DNP, they have some other issues at hand.


I mean there is always the burning flame test. I'm sure you're product is legit and you have high standards.


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## HighHeater (Apr 1, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I mean there is always the burning flame test. I'm sure you're product is legit and you have high standards.


I mean I guess you could do that but that just means you likely gonna get some ugly ass fingers  opening it up. I can tell you I’ve never once used the burning test to test DNp. It’s pretty obvious once you get used to the raws of if it’s real, shit, or cut. I mean you could also try it by pouring a cap on your mouth… that’ll be a dead giveaway and don’t have to waste a cap by burning it 😂 just busting your balls in that one. But really, just rub the cap in your finger a few times, it’ll be yellow


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 1, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> I mean I guess you could do that but that just means you likely gonna get some ugly ass fingers  opening it up. I can tell you I’ve never once used the burning test to test DNp. It’s pretty obvious once you get used to the raws of if it’s real, shit, or cut. I mean you could also try it by pouring a cap on your mouth… that’ll be a dead giveaway and don’t have to waste a cap by burning it 😂 just busting your balls in that one. But really, just rub the cap in your finger a few times, it’ll be yellow


Well I'm sure you know better than me!


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## Beti ona (Apr 1, 2022)

This nonsense blows my mind, DNP is always real DNP, nobody is counterfeiting it, the only problem is that your capsule may have a lower or higher dose. Sellers sometimes overfill the capsules to get buyers to say, "wow, this DNP is amazing, legit seller!!"

But the vendor, after building his customer base, might start underdosing his capsules to make more profit. Greed is present in these businesses.

The best option is to buy raw DNP and manipulate it yourself, but people are fearful or lazy, so they get products that don't know if they are right encapsulated or not.


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## HighHeater (Apr 1, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Well I'm sure you know better than me!


Not that I know better, not saying that. Just simply saying DNp is rarely ever faked and if it is, you’ll know pretty quickly. It’s not one of those gotta wait to see things like testosterone. But as far as placing it on the tongue, I’d hope I know better than you bc I’ve done it and don’t recommend it


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## metsfan4life (Apr 1, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> This nonsense blows my mind, DNP is always real DNP, nobody is counterfeiting it, the only problem is that your capsule may have a lower or higher dose. Sellers sometimes overfill the capsules to get buyers to say, "wow, this DNP is amazing, legit seller!!"
> 
> But the vendor, after building his customer base, might start underdosing his capsules to make more profit. Greed is present in these businesses.
> 
> The best option is to buy raw DNP and manipulate it yourself, but people are fearful or lazy, so they get products that don't know if they are right encapsulated or not.


This is also very true. DNP really isn’t counterfeited bc of the simple thing it is. Really the thing to worry about is over or under - over think it’s strong and end up taking too much (prob not likely), unless you’re super sensitive. The under can be a problem bc one gets used to it and then decides to try another brand and realize there’s a difference in that there “200”. 

Id tell some one make sure the know what they are doing before capping it. Practice in something far less dose dependent. Not a hard process but def gotta know what they are doing AND be prepared for minion fingers for a while. 

I can say easiest way to ever nip the bud on the under/over - vendor uses the same batches for themselves. They’ll never mess em up lolz


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 1, 2022)

Update: all sides have pretty much disappeared. Its also because I'm in a cool hotel room and drinking lots of fluids. I was out in the sun and walking about 4 hours, was tired, but nothing crazy. 
Last day tomorrow on DNP.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 3, 2022)

Finished my DNP cycle. Waiting 5 days then will repeat DEXA and post results.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 4, 2022)

End weight was 197.5lb. Waiting 5 days, will repeat DEXA.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 4, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> End weight was 197.5lb. Waiting 5 days, will repeat DEXA.


What was your starting weight? 207lbs yes? And how many days was the cycle and at what dose? Just curious to see it all summed up together.


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## HighHeater (Apr 5, 2022)

I think his original scan was at 207 but said he was right at 200 when he started. 200mg a day and ran normal length. So at initial face - 3lbs. Be interested to see how compares when the water weight comes off. I’d recommend waiting longer than 5 days, 7. But you also nes to continue eating properly bc you can easily gain that weight back before the water comes off.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 5, 2022)

Yes, lets see what the DEXA says on Sunday (which will be 7 days after taking the last tablet).


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

DNP was a complete fail. 
Lost basically no fat, infact, lost muscle despite still training and taking gear. 
See the DEXA results below. 
Very disappointing. 2 weeks wasted on night sweats and over heating for no reason.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> DNP was a complete fail.
> Lost basically no fat, infact, lost muscle despite still training and taking gear.
> See the DEXA results below.
> Very disappointing. 2 weeks wasted on night sweats and over heating for no reason.


How long after DNP did you wait before you took this DEXA; did you actually wait 7 days? Did you notice any weight drop off on the scale during that period? Btw everyone told you to stop depending on DEXA because they aren't really accurate.

Also, if you only lost 3lbs on DNP then you've done something wrong. You can lose 3lbs in 2 weeks with just diet and cardio alone very easily.



lseactuary90 said:


> Here is my plan:
> 
> 1 DNP in the morning, empty stomach with water, wait 30 mins before having the first meal for 2 weeks only.
> Gym still 3x a week min, 4x if I can.
> ...


What type of job do you have? Desk job or manual labor type job?

*Only* 30 minutes of cardio a day? Did you actually measure your heart rate, and if so then what was your sustained heart rate?

Gym only 3x per week, what does your training program look like?

3.5k calories? Why wouldn't you lower your calories? That is a surplus, and not a deficit. Yes you can lose weight  on DNP while in a surplus as clearly your results show, but to milk it for all it's worth you should be in a deficit.

0.6ml of test and deca 3x a week. Let's assume they are only 200mg/ml; that is 360mg of test and 360mg of deca per week. Plus your caloric surplus... you aren't going to lose muscle with those anabolics in your system.

DNP isn't a 100% magic drug. You still have to push hard in the gym, and with your diet. I feel like you believe you are going hard, but your results say otherwise. Have you considered training harder, and dieting in a slight deficit instead of in a surplus?


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

@RiR0 come educate this guy on why his cut isn't working 🤣


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

Ok so now that you’re at the end of your run and didn’t get the results that you were looking for, you’re assuming that it’s fake?

I think you got a lot of feedback throughout this thread that you have a lot of other things going on that you need to get in order before really getting on this. I won’t go over the stuff in our PM but there was a lot that I told you that I’d recommend you get in order first. A lot of people here also told you just about the same thing. The fact that you were sweating like crazy would tell you a lot. 

But if ya don’t wanna believe me, there’s a LOT of guys on here that will tell you they’ve had positive results. And I can assure you this, the caps you take are the same ones everyone else would get bc I also take them from the same batch,… would I wanna take stuff that’s not what I say it is… 

Anyways


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## RiR0 (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> @RiR0 come educate this guy on why his cut isn't working 🤣


I don’t even have it in me 😂


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> How long after DNP did you wait before you took this DEXA; did you actually wait 7 days? Did you notice any weight drop off on the scale during that period? Btw everyone told you to stop depending on DEXA because they aren't really accurate.
> 
> Also, if you only lost 3lbs on DNP then you've done something wrong. You can lose 3lbs in 2 weeks with just diet and cardio alone very easily.
> 
> ...


I waited 7 days, yes. I did loose some lbs during the period, but its quickly come back to my starting point towards the end of the 14 days on DNP + after I stopped despite not upping calories. 
I lost 3lb muscle, not fat. 
I have a desk job. 
Training is chest/shoulders/triceps; back/biceps; legs/abs. On DNP I was sweating after each workout. 
I did lower my calories to about 3k during the 2 weeks on DNP, only raised it back to 3.5k in the past 2 days.
Test and Deca are 250mg/ml. EQ is 300mg/ml. I am unsure how I lost muscle mass (as per the DEXA).
I'm not sure what "training harder" means when I am giving each set everything and literally am tired enough to have to sit in the gym 15 mins or so before I can even go home.


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

@Send0 

Please educate! Preach 

Don’t like calling people out from a PM but this one  has to be talked about:

“I wasn't sweating my ass off. I had mild sweat. But training is irrelevant here no? Fat should have come off.”


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I don’t even have it in me 😂


I know man.. I tagged you in hopes of triggering you 🤣


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> @Send0
> 
> Please educate! Preach
> 
> ...


This is out of context. You cannot "blame" the training for my lack of results as even with just cardio and diet and DNP I should have lost at least a little fat. Given I was training and dieting and taking DNP and got no result, I'm concerned about the DNP itself or something is off with my body but idk what.


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I waited 7 days, yes. I did loose some lbs during the period, but its quickly come back to my starting point towards the end of the 14 days on DNP + after I stopped despite not upping calories.
> I lost 3lb muscle, not fat.
> I have a desk job.
> Training is chest/shoulders/triceps; back/biceps; legs/abs. On DNP I was sweating after each workout.
> ...


Bud, you’re training coach was wanting you to clean bulk when really you needed to really focus on training and eating right. We discussed this for a little bit but you wanted to listen to this coach and I told you it didn’t sound right. You’re eating a shit ton more calories than you normally do… what do you expect? You’re going to gain fat/weight… that’s the point. Sure you’re on DNP but there is a point to where you end up doing the opposite of what you’re intending and you really didn’t have much of a program - it was a short training program.


Not trying to be a dick but clearly there’s an issue with the training and diet that a lot here mentioned


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> Ok so now that you’re at the end of your run and didn’t get the results that you were looking for, you’re assuming that it’s fake?
> 
> I think you got a lot of feedback throughout this thread that you have a lot of other things going on that you need to get in order before really getting on this. I won’t go over the stuff in our PM but there was a lot that I told you that I’d recommend you get in order first. A lot of people here also told you just about the same thing. The fact that you were sweating like crazy would tell you a lot.
> 
> ...


What feedback did I not consider? I followed all of the advice given. I wasn't sweating like crazy like you claim and if you read this log I document things pretty well. The fact that other for positive results is irrelevant, I didn't get any results.


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> This is out of context. You cannot "blame" the training for my lack of results as even with just cardio and diet and DNP I should have lost at least a little fat. Given I was training and dieting and taking DNP and got no result, I'm concerned about the DNP itself or something is off with my body but idk what.


 Not out of context at all… it’s clear that there are issues with the regimen that you were doing. I don’t think you understand how this works man. 

I’m not calling people to vouch as I keep those who order private unless they want to make notice. But there’s a good amount that have no issues with it and they are running the same


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> Bud, you’re training coach was wanting you to clean bulk when really you needed to really focus on training and eating right. We discussed this for a little bit but you wanted to listen to this coach and I told you it didn’t sound right. You’re eating a shit ton more calories than you normally do… what do you expect? You’re going to gain fat/weight… that’s the point. Sure you’re on DNP but there is a point to where you end up doing the opposite of what you’re intending and you really didn’t have much of a program - it was a short training program.
> 
> 
> Not trying to be a dick but clearly there’s an issue with the training and diet that a lot here mentioned


Sure and that was *before* taking DNP. When I was on DNP I cut the calories and we were training 3x together still (and I pushed for 1x myself still) plus the cardio that I wasn't even doing before. Still no result is not good. 

Not sure what you mean by "gain fat/weight" when actually on a larger diet and cycle, without DNP, I actually lost fat as the DEXA shows, but once on DNP basically my metrics remain unchanged.


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> What feedback did I not consider? I followed all of the advice given. I wasn't sweating like crazy like you claim and if you read this log I document things pretty well. The fact that other for positive results is irrelevant, I didn't get any results.


I think that speaks to your training and eating regimen more so than anything …


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> Not out of context at all… it’s clear that there are issues with the regimen that you were doing. I don’t think you understand how this works man.
> 
> I’m not calling people to vouch as I keep those who order private unless they want to make notice. But there’s a good amount that have no issues with it and they are running the same


Ok then, enlighten me how my "regimen" was off. I also was documenting things for the 14 days, why didn't you speak up sooner?


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> I think that speaks to your training and eating regimen more so than anything …


Or fake DNP.


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## RiR0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> This is out of context. You cannot "blame" the training for my lack of results as even with just cardio and diet and DNP I should have lost at least a little fat. Given I was training and dieting and taking DNP and got no result, I'm concerned about the DNP itself or something is off with my body but idk what.


So you got every side effect from dnp but didn’t lose weight? 
Without drugs in a caloric deficit you’ll lose fat and weight.  
No matter what’s wrong with your body in a caloric deficit you’ll weight. It’s called the law of thermodynamics.


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Or fake DNP.


Lolz I can’t even
No one is going to fake DNP, especially someone that has nothing but positive feedback. Take ya a few caps and wipe it on your hands, you’ll know tomorrow it’s not fake.

Since think it’s fake, you won’t mind wasting a few caps.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So you got every side effect from dnp but didn’t lose weight?
> Without drugs in a caloric deficit you’ll lose fat and weight.
> No matter what’s wrong with your body in a caloric deficit you’ll weight. It’s called the law of thermodynamics.


Then why didn't I loose any fat?


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> Lolz I can’t even
> No one is going to fake DNP, especially someone that has nothing but positive feedback. Take ya a few caps and wipe it on your hands, you’ll know tomorrow it’s not fake.
> 
> Since think it’s fake, you won’t mind wasting a few caps.


Well now you have negative feedback.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Or fake DNP.


DNP is just about never faked. It's so damn cheap to get. The price you pay when buying it for someone includes the risk they take on, the process they have to go through drying it properly, and then the hassle of trying to cap it...  which is kind of hazardous to the lungs.

We have lots of success stories of people using Highheater, assuming that's where you bought it.

You said you lowered cals to 3k? Guess what, you are sedentary and do not train as hard as you think you do. Even accounting for calories burned in the gym, 3k cal is probably still a slight surplus for you.


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## RiR0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Then why didn't I loose any fat?


Because you weren’t in a caloric deficit.


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## RiR0 (Apr 9, 2022)

When will people realize no matter what they take none of the drugs are magic and do the work for you.


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Well now you have negative feedback.


I think based on the feedback that you received from the entire beginning of this days a lot. People told you that DEXA ain’t going to be the best thing in the world. People gave advice at the beginning of this that the diet was not a proper diet, your training is not proper. Why do I not comment, seems like everyone had already given you solid advice. Like mentioned above, you’re still eating a high amount of calories for your lifestyle. 

Sorry that you didn’t get the results you were looking for but it’s clearly not the product that is the issue. Continue to work on your foundation and really hone into what you’re doing and you’ll easily see a difference


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Sure and that was *before* taking DNP. When I was on DNP I cut the calories and we were training 3x together still (and I pushed for 1x myself still) plus the cardio that I wasn't even doing before. Still no result is not good.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by "gain fat/weight" when actually on a larger diet and cycle, without DNP, I actually lost fat as the DEXA shows, but once on DNP basically my metrics remain unchanged.


You also said before that you couldn't lose weight even with only 1k cal diet. Which everyone got on your case about how that's impossible.

Nothing you say since you've joined the board makes any sense. Then you do things like barely any cardio, eat in a surplus, and complain you only lost 3lbs.

Drugs aren't magic in the first place. The problem is you.

so many people gave you advice, and it doesn't feel like you listened to anyone. It seems like you thought you could do the absolute bare minimum, not fix your diet, and that DNP would just shred fat off you.


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## HighHeater (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> You also said before that you couldn't lose weight even with only 1k cal diet. Which everyone got on your case about how that's impossible.
> 
> Nothing you say since you've joined the board makes any sense. Then you do things like barely any cardio, eat in a surplus, and complain you only lost 3lbs.
> 
> ...


@lseactuary90 take note. 

I told you a lot of things seemed off before you bought it. Your trainer had a lot of issues that didn’t seem right with your training and i mentioned that. It’s not you, it’s not the DNP, it’s the way you’re going about your training/eating is the issue. You’re not immune to DNP and it’s not faked. Literally have no time to fake DNP and waste time. Think I’d wanna have yellow ass hands and make everyone else’s real and make yours fake? Really makes zero sense to do that


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

DNP did not work for me. Let's close out this thread. It seems its pointless arguing this as anything I now say will be blown out of proportion anyway. Just to put in my last word on this:

1) I was given diet tips but I explained my diet restrictions and then was not given any alternative advice. I asked specific questions that were not answered. 
2) I explained my training before, and was getting muscle growth from the same workouts (and lost fat too as per the DEXA) so basically sticking to that training + adding cardio + dropping calories *should* have resulted in fat loss with DNP. It didn't. 

AGAIN the 3lb "lost" is muscle mass NOT FAT. Honestly, does anyone here read anything I write?


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

HighHeater said:


> @lseactuary90 take note.
> 
> I told you a lot of things seemed off before you bought it. Your trainer had a lot of issues that didn’t seem right with your training and i mentioned that. It’s not you, it’s not the DNP, it’s the way you’re going about your training/eating is the issue. You’re not immune to DNP and it’s not faked. Literally have no time to fake DNP and waste time. Think I’d wanna have yellow ass hands and make everyone else’s real and make yours fake? Really makes zero sense to do that


I would endorse someone, but that wouldn't be right for a mod to do.

Let's just say I lost 14lbs on a DNP run from a source on this board. I did about 90 minutes of cardio 6 days a week, lifted my ass off, and I was in a good caloric deficit.

I did not sweat because I was on low 200mg dose, but I did feel warm. Especially if I took in fast digesting carbs.

Which source did I use? Well search the products section, see who's selling DNP and then you'll have your answer.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

This is a logging journal thread. I've logged my experience. The end.


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## RiR0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> This is a logging journal thread. I've logged my experience. The end.


And it’s clear you did everything wrong


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> DNP did not work for me. Let's close out this thread. It seems its pointless arguing this as anything I now say will be blown out of proportion anyway. Just to put in my last word on this:
> 
> 1) I was given diet tips but I explained my diet restrictions and then was not given any alternative advice. I asked specific questions that were not answered.
> 2) I explained my training before, and was getting muscle growth from the same workouts (and lost fat too as per the DEXA) so basically sticking to that training + adding cardio + dropping calories *should* have resulted in fat loss with DNP. It didn't.
> ...


1. You really need alternatives or tips on how to reduce your calories? If you have restrictions then you literally just have to eat less of whatever you're eating... because I assume your current diet already accounts for said restrictions. You don't need to be a genius to figure this out

Also, going on your intro post, this thread, and another..  you don't listen to any one. I won't recap any of it, because you wouldn't listen or agree anyway.

2. Your trainer is not a real trainer.

I know you think you are doing the right things, but pretty much everyone told you otherwise. You listened to nobody, and your results reflect this.

Why ask for assistance if you aren't going to listen?

Good luck to you.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> 1. You really need alternatives or tips on how to reduce your calories? If you have restrictions then you literally just have to eat less of whatever you're eating... because I assume your current diet already accounts for said restrictions. You don't need to be a genius to figure this out
> 
> Also, going on your intro post, this thread, and another..  you don't listen to any one. I won't recap any of it, because you wouldn't listen or agree anyway.
> 
> ...


I was told to ditch my trainer after the DNP cycle. I have.
I was told to lower calories based on the foods I eat. I did. 
I was told to increase cardio. I did.
I logged daily what I was doing on the DNP cycle and no one ever commented until now that it was "wrong". 

Why give assistance, and when I respond, ignore and say I am not listening?


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I was told to ditch my trainer after the DNP cycle. I have.
> I was told to lower calories based on the foods I eat. I did.
> I was told to increase cardio. I did.
> I logged daily what I was doing on the DNP cycle and no one ever commented until now that it was "wrong".
> ...


How many calories were you eating a day?


----------



## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I was told to ditch my trainer after the DNP cycle. I have.
> I was told to lower calories based on the foods I eat. I did.
> I was told to increase cardio. I did.
> I logged daily what I was doing on the DNP cycle and no one ever commented until now that it was "wrong".
> ...


1. Did you ditch them before or after your DNP run? And what training program did you follow after ditching your trainer? 

2. You lowered it from 3500 to 3000. You work a desk job, so you are sedentary all day long. 

3. You increased cardio? You did 30 minutes per day which isn't much of anything. What were you doing before, absolutely nothing?  30 minutes of cardio is going to burn a negligible amount because it probably takes at least 15-20 minutes to get the cardiovascular drift required to sustain an elevated heart rate.

Lifting weights doesn't burn many calories either. Not as much as people want to believe.

Combine all of this with the fact that you did not reduce your calories into a deficit... well you connect the dots.

4. We told you what to do before hand. You had all the knowledge spoon feed to you in other threads, and some people even were kind enough to help you in PMs. We are not responsible for your results, or whether you choose to cherry pick the advice you are given a d modified or to fit your "personality". 

Why are you unable to look at yourself objectively and honestly?

5. I'm done here. I'm the worst for conversations like this since I lack patience; especially when someone refuses to take responsibility for their own outcome.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> How many calories were you eating a day?


At first 3500, then he lowered to 3000. He works a desk job.

Said he did cardio 3x a week, and lifted 3x a week. Check his thread history; you'll see way more flaws in what he's doing than what we talked about here.

If you remember, pretty sure this is the same person who said he couldn't lose weight even while eating 1k calories 🙄


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> 1. Did you ditch them before or after your DNP run? And what training program did you follow after ditching your trainer?
> 
> 2. You lowered it from 3500 to 3000. You work a desk job, so you are sedentary all day long.
> 
> ...


1. After DNP run as I had paid in advance for sessions so needed to use them up.
2. Sure but this wasn't made clear that I should drop even further.
3. 30 mins was when I was no on DNP. I did increase cardio to 1 hour per day total on DNP.
4. Sorry no. This is incorrect.
5. Stop replying then. I lack patience too and you should re-read your own unhelpful vague answers before pointing fingers at me. I can tell you are just annoyed DNP didn't work for me and I had the courage to write it didn't work and basically want others to think it always works. As a moderator, I think this is poor. I just shared a horrible experience and instead of having empathy you all just point fingers.


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> At first 3500, then he lowered to 3000. He works a desk job.
> 
> Said he did cardio 3x a week, and lifted 3x a week. Check his thread history; you'll see way more flaws in what he's doing than what we talked about here.
> 
> If you remember, pretty sure this is the same person who said he couldn't lose weight even while eating 1k calories 🙄


Again with the judgement. Did you ever ask why? Where did I say 1k calories. I am very sure I said 1.5k calories. At that point my metabolism was so slow I was not loosing weight. That is normal. Stop taking things out of context.


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## RiR0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Again with the judgement. Did you ever ask why? Where did I say 1k calories. I am very sure I said 1.5k calories. At that point my metabolism was so slow I was not loosing weight. That is normal. Stop taking things out of context.


I simply don’t believe you. I don’t think you even know how to track calories. I don’t care how “slow” your metabolism is. Do you realize how hard it is and lean you have to get to conjure the mythical metabolic damage monster.
Especially for a man.
How many Holocaust survivors just stopped losing weight because of metabolic damage? 
Your body doesn’t stop using energy to live.
You’re not some special case. 
You jumped on drugs without knowing the basics of training and nutrition. 

The most I’ve gathered from this thread is you’re shit at tracking calories. 

This whole thread is a perfect example of “get your diet and training down before you use drugs”

The crazy thing is you don’t even get it.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> 1. After DNP run as I had paid in advance for sessions so needed to use them up.
> 2. Sure but this wasn't made clear that I should drop even further.
> 3. 30 mins was when I was no on DNP. I did increase cardio to 1 hour per day total on DNP.
> 4. Sorry no. This is incorrect.
> 5. Stop replying then. I lack patience too and you should re-read your own unhelpful vague answers before pointing fingers at me. I can tell you are just annoyed DNP didn't work for me and I had the courage to write it didn't work and basically want others to think it always works. As a moderator, I think this is poor. I just shared a horrible experience and instead of having empathy you all just point fingers.


4. It is absolutely correct.

5. I can choose to reply or not reply. I also don't care what you think of me as a moderator.

I am pointing fingers at you because you refuse to take responsibility for yourself. You refuse to even consider the possibility. You don't listen to people either. I am in a place to judge because I know what it takes to be successful, and you clearly don't.

****Despite everything you did wrong, you still lost 3lbs, and you're complaining DNP doesn't work***.* I don't care what your DEXA says, you didn't lose muscle. It is impossible for you to havelst muscle with your caloric surplus, and all the anabolics, combined with the fact that DNP is not catabolic.

I am telling you this from experience. Just as everyone else has. Yet you insist on saying we are the ones wrong.

If you really feel we are wrong, then go see an endocrinologist immediately... because something must be wrong with your metabolism. When was the last time you tested your thyroid? As in a full thyroid panel and not just 1-2 markers. When was the last time you reviewed this with the doctor.

If you aren't going to listen to us then seeing your doctor is the next step. Because you have some condition that hasn't effected anyone else here in the history of this forum 🙄


----------



## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I simply don’t believe you. I don’t think you even know how to track calories. I don’t care how “slow” your metabolism is. Do you realize how hard it is and lean you have to get to conjure the mythical metabolic damage monster.
> Especially for a man.
> How many Holocaust survivors just stopped losing weight because of metabolic damage?
> Your body doesn’t stop using energy to live.
> ...


On the metabolism front... He's doing a cycle with test and deca. Testosterone increases conversion of T4 to T3 by 30%.. +/- 9% according to literature.

So in theory his metabolism should be elevated.

If he really things his metabolism is slow then be needs to stop throwing PEDs and random drugs at it, and go see his endocrinologist. 🙄


----------



## Beti ona (Apr 10, 2022)

Some people don't respond to DNP, it's rare but it does happen.

That's one thing.

But losing muscle and not losing fat while run DNP and some GEAR, that has no scientific explanation.

Your DEXA may be shit.

The best method is to take before and after photos, then you can check your physical change, which is what we are looking for.


----------



## hard_gains (Apr 10, 2022)

Pretty much sums up this thread. 😆


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 10, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Some people don't respond to DNP, it's rare but it does happen.
> 
> That's one thing.
> 
> ...


Thank you. It also may be the gear is shit / underdosed as I did start new viles. I am having blood work done to check it as well as metabolic panel. The DEXA is by BodySpec which seems legit. Unfortunately I did not take before/after photos but will remember for next time.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 10, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Thank you. It also may be the gear is shit / underdosed as I did start new viles. I am having blood work done to check it as well as metabolic panel. The DEXA is by BodySpec which seems legit. Unfortunately I did not take before/after photos but will remember for next time.


You did see the part he mentioned that I quoted below this, right? Just want to make sure you aren't cherry picking what you want to believe as being true. Everyone seems to agree on this point. Hell, pretty much everyone agrees on all points previously made in this thread. 😅



Beti ona said:


> But losing muscle and not losing fat while run DNP and some GEAR, that has no scientific explanation.



To further the point of the quote above, which many of us echoed previously... you lost 3lbs while in a caloric surplus. DNP did something for you. Diet harder, train harder, and you'd likely see results similar to other people who use DNP.


----------



## TODAY (Apr 10, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Thank you. It also may be the gear is shit / underdosed as I did start new viles. I am having blood work done to check it as well as metabolic panel. The DEXA is by BodySpec which seems legit. Unfortunately I did not take before/after photos but will remember for next time.


DEXA is not an accurate tool to measure body composition in this context.

This has been explained to you numerous times.

Forget about the fucking DEXA results and get your training and diet in check.


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 10, 2022)

Send0 said:


> You did see the part he mentioned that I quoted below this, right? Just want to make sure you aren't cherry picking what you want to believe as being true. Everyone seems to agree on this point. Hell, pretty much everyone agrees on all points previously made in this thread. 😅
> 
> 
> 
> To further the point of the quote above, which many of us echoed previously... you lost 3lbs while in a caloric surplus. DNP did something for you. Diet harder, train harder, and you'd likely see results similar to other people who use DNP.


Yes, I am listening, hence I booked the blood work.


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## Send0 (Apr 10, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Yes, I am listening, hence I booked the blood work.


I misunderstood that part of your post. For some reason my dumb brain didn't connect the dots that you were testing to see if your testosterone is legit.

My mistake.


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## RiR0 (Apr 10, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Thank you. It also may be the gear is shit / underdosed as I did start new viles. I am having blood work done to check it as well as metabolic panel. The DEXA is by BodySpec which seems legit. Unfortunately I did not take before/after photos but will remember for next time.


Even if the drugs are bad. You’re diet and probably training are the issue.
What is wrong with you? How can you not realize this?


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## Beti ona (Apr 10, 2022)

I also don't understand why someone who isn't a professional bodybuilder looking for some kind of precition / recognition regarding their % BF would want to spend their money on a dexa.

99.9% of all time bodybuilders / dieters used none of this, just the normal scale (no impedance currents), mirror and photos. None of these methods alone is useful or reliable, but a combination of everything together with the diet and training plan serves to assess progress and make modifications when and where necessary.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 10, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> I also don't understand why someone who isn't a professional bodybuilder looking for some kind of precition / recognition regarding their % BF would want to spend their money on a dexa.
> 
> 99.9% of all time bodybuilders / dieters used none of this, just the normal scale (no impedance currents), mirror and photos. None of these methods alone is useful or reliable, but a combination of everything together with the diet and training plan serves to assess progress and make modifications when and where necessary.


It was more to provide an actual metric to my cycle vs anything else. As I've done before/after pics before and its subjective and been told to get a DEXA lol.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 11, 2022)

In my experience I can tel you that sweating might not always be the best indicator of weight loss. My 3rd DNP cycle was 400mg for 25 days and I lost 12kgs. My second was 600mg for 16 days. For the record I don't recommend anyone starts with those dosages. I sweated a shit ton on the second cycle of 600mg but only lost 4kg, and I didn't sweat much on my first cycle or third cycle which were lower dosage but I lost more weight.

So based off this bro-science, I'd say sweating doesn't mean you'll burn more calories, as I could see from my own results.

Also, you're eating 3000 cals per day for what reason, but DNP works best when you are in a caloric deficit. Next time try using 500-700 below your TDEE.

I was in a caloric deficit, and my carb intake was low. I don't know that low carb intake makes a difference or not, but next time I think I'll try a real keto-diet eventually to see if it makes a difference.

Dosage with DNP is individual in nature. You should always start with a low dose like 200mg, and run it for the duration of your cycle. If you felt good, but didn't get results, then assuming you already fixed the other flaws in diet and training when you did the lower dose you can try a slightly higher dose, like 300 or 400mg..

I've read a number of people on this forum who have lost a lot of fat from just 200mg; most seem to stay at that dose to avoid too much heat and lethargy... which is good since heat and lethargy can end up being counter productive for lifting and cardio while trying to cut


----------



## TODAY (Apr 11, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> . My 3rd DNP cycle was 400mg for 25 days and I lost 12kgs.


You lost half of your bodyweight in 25 days!

Incredible work.


----------



## Intel.imperitive (Apr 11, 2022)

Also, from all the anecdotal reports I've read @HighHeater 's products are on point. Only reason I didn't buy was because he doesn't accept bank transfer. I was quoted $XXX amount, but another member also from the UK was quoted $XXX/3. Idk what's going on there but fair enough. Maybe he thinks I'm a more risky customer. His business at the end of the day.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 11, 2022)

TODAY said:


> You lost half of your bodyweight in 25 days!
> 
> Incredible work.


Thanks I guess dude. I was 94kgs of fat at some point, I'm at like 76kgs ATM.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 11, 2022)

TODAY said:


> You lost half of your bodyweight in 25 days!
> 
> Incredible work.


His bodyweight aside. The way he outlined his anecdotal experience was actually good this time. I also appreciate that he reinforced the fact that a caloric deficit is better, and also that one should proceed slowly and cautiously with dosages.

I'm giving him credit this time around. He did check with me privately on this before posting, to make sure he wasn't saying something that could be harmful. I hope he keeps up this approach, and that he asks members questions.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 11, 2022)

I wonder what DNPs effect is on IGF-1 if any


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## Send0 (Apr 11, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I wonder what DNPs effect is on IGF-1 if any


Based on my bloodwork, there is none. My baseline IGF was 215 and my post DNP bloodwork shows it at 203. The difference in IGF levels is not significant enough to attribute any positive/negative relationship between DNP and IGF.

Again I am just a sample size of 1, but this is what my blood work showed pre/post DNP.

I haven't seen studies correlate any positive/negative influence that DNP has on IGF levels. Anytime I've seen a study mention DNP and IGF in the same paper, it is off tangent and seems to specifically involve speculation on diabetic use cases for DNP


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 11, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Based on my bloodwork, there is none. My baseline IGF was 215 and my post DNP bloodwork shows it at 203. The difference in IGF levels is not significant enough to attribute any positive/negative relationship between DNP and IGF.
> 
> Again I am just a sample size of 1, but this is what my blood work showed pre/post DNP.
> 
> I haven't seen studies correlate any positive/negative influence that DNP has on IGF levels. Anytime they mention I've seen a study mention DNP and IGF in the same paper, it is off tangent and seems to specifically involve speculation on diabetic use cases for DNP


Diabetic use of DNP. There must be something interesting there, read an article on DNP and Insulin as the "ultimate PCT". One depleting the body of carbs and one stocking it. Appearently, one of the ways to gain muscle on DNP due to ATP something something, we discussed this. Sounds like suicide if you ask me.


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## Send0 (Apr 11, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Diabetic use of DNP. There must be something interesting there, read an article on DNP and Insulin as the "ultimate PCT". One depleting the body of carbs and one stocking it. Appearently, one of the ways to gain muscle on DNP due to ATP something something, we discussed this. Sounds like suicide if you ask me.


The only time I've seen DNP mentioned in studies as it relates to insulin is when they are talking about resetting of natural insulin sensitivity... nothing to do with exogenous insulin. Even then, it is speculative in humans... as I believe they've only done animal studies on this

I would not recommend anyone run insulin with DNP if they are not diabetic.


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## lifter6973 (Apr 11, 2022)

Send0 said:


> The only time I've seen DNP mentioned in studies as it relates to insulin is when they are talking about resetting of natural insulin sensitivity... nothing to do with exogenous insulin. Even then, it is speculative in humans... as I believe they've only done animal studies on this
> 
> I would not recommend anyone run insulin with DNP if they are not diabetic.


Speaking of DNP guess who I saw online earlier? When is his ban up?


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## metsfan4life (Apr 11, 2022)

Send0 said:


> The only time I've seen DNP mentioned in studies as it relates to insulin is when they are talking about resetting of natural insulin sensitivity... nothing to do with exogenous insulin. Even then, it is speculative in humans... as I believe they've only done animal studies on this
> 
> I would not recommend anyone run insulin with DNP if they are not diabetic.


Yeah it can help diabetics with insulin sensitivity, obviously csn help anyone but especially useful to some who may have some issues with it. I csn get some bad resistance while on GH to where I’m shootings 80ius a day and still be running on the 250+ side. Take that and it certainly helps with that. I believe it was Yale (I posted somewhere) about low dose DNp-Xr. Obviously with the dangers of it it won’t ever likely take to fruition. But I can tell you the sugar rollercoaster on dnp is not fun.


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## Send0 (Apr 11, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> Speaking of DNP guess who I saw online earlier? When is his ban up?


Today or yesterday I believe.


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## lifter6973 (Apr 11, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Today or yesterday I believe.


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## Beti ona (Apr 12, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I would not recommend anyone run insulin with DNP if they are not diabetic.



Some rec athletes have tried this combination, it's for advanced bodybuilders who are well versed in drug use, I'm not sure how the desired results are achieved, ie losing fat and maintaining muscle fullness, lean musclle gains, but it seems possible


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## TomJ (Apr 12, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Some rec athletes have tried this combination, it's for advanced bodybuilders who are well versed in drug use, I'm not sure how the desired results are achieved, ie losing fat and maintaining muscle fullness, lean musclle gains, but it seems possible


Except almost no bodybuilders use dnp. 
At least no one worth talking about

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Beti ona (Apr 12, 2022)

TomJ said:


> Except almost no bodybuilders use dnp.
> At least no one worth talking about
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk



Yeah, I mean more guys on message boards like this, sometimes they can be national level competitors,


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## TomJ (Apr 12, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Yeah, I mean more guys on message boards like this, sometimes they can be national level competitors,


Yeah dnp definitely is more popular on the boards than on the stage. 

It seems like once you get into the pro level there are very few if any guys using it. 

They've talked about it a bunch of times on fuads podcast, at the very least, none of the top guys fuck with it. 

I guess once you're at that level fat burners like that just aren't that useful

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Beti ona (Apr 12, 2022)

Well, I don't believe what athletes openly say either, many also deny the use of SEO when it is evident that they use it. 

DNP does not have good press and is related to a lack of work ethic, like SEO, so few will recognize it.

In any case, I guess pro BB prefer a combination of GH, tren, T3... to burn fat and maintain fullness.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 13, 2022)

I got my blood work. All is normal, test is elevated also as per the doses I'm taking. So its not my body.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 13, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I got my blood work. All is normal, test is elevated also as per the doses I'm taking. So its not my body.


Try 400mg next tim maybe, and don't eat 3000cals a day. Eat 1750.


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## GymRat97 (Apr 13, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I got my blood work. All is normal, test is elevated also as per the doses I'm taking. So its not my body.


What did you get tested exactly? Can you list all the panels you had them test for and the results?

Also if it's not your body and it's not the drugs, then what else is left that I can be? Your diet and training I'm guessing?



Intel.imperitive said:


> Try 400mg next tim maybe, and don't eat 3000cals a day. Eat 1750.


Why would you tell him to increase his dose and drop the calories? All he needs to do is lower the calories and increase his cardio.

I don't think raising the drugs without getting his other issues dialed in, and then re-testing at his current dose, is very good advice.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 13, 2022)

GymRat97 said:


> What did you get tested exactly? Can you list all the panels you had them test for and the results?
> 
> Also if it's not your body and it's not the drugs, then what else is left that I can be? Your diet and training I'm guessing?
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree with you tbh. I'd go back and reccomend 300.


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## GymRat97 (Apr 13, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Yeah I agree with you tbh.


Now I'm really confused, then why did you tell him to do that?

If you agree, then you might want to edit and update your post.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 13, 2022)

Please see results below.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 13, 2022)

GymRat97 said:


> Now I'm really confused, then why did you tell him to do that?
> 
> If you agree, then you might want to edit and update your post.


I agree half-wayish. 400mg is a medium sized dose, 600 is a very large dose. I've used 600 myself, 400 it's not gonna kill you. Okay, it might kill 1-2 people in 10000 but hey.


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## GymRat97 (Apr 13, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Please see results below.


How long after your last injection before you had blood drawn for lab work?

Also, your estradiol is very low for the amount of testosterone in your system

You didn't get any thyroid panels or anything else that was suggested in this thread? You only cared if your gear was good, but not if you have some other condition that is resulting in you not losing weight?


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## TODAY (Apr 13, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Try 400mg next tim maybe, and don't eat 3000cals a day. Eat 1750.


Lmfao, not even trying to hide the trolling anymore


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 13, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Lmfao, not even trying to hide the trolling anymore


How is it troll


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 13, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Please see results below.



Put Intel on ignore
Dont listen to him
Some great and knowledgeable guys in this thread.

Intel.looks like this
You dont want to look like this bro


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 13, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Put Intel on ignore
> Dont listen to him
> Some great and knowledgeable guys in this thread.
> 
> ...


On an anabolic thread sure. A DNP thread? I'm quite lean here. I lost 16kgs in 1.5 months.


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## GymRat97 (Apr 13, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> On an anabolic thread sure. A DNP thread? I'm quite lean here. I lost 16kgs in 1.5 months.


I've read up on your posts, and also other posts people linked from Meso. I also saw your current pics, and you are skinny fat right now..zero muscle.

You also starved yourself; as in you didn't eat most days, and you were on cycle to achieve that weight loss. Isn't your HPTA shot now?

You shouldn't even give advice to a corpse. Coming from you it would be reckless for it's health.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 13, 2022)

GymRat97 said:


> I've read up on your posts, and also other posts people linked from Meso. I also saw your current pics, and you are skinny fat right now..zero muscle.
> 
> You also starved yourself; as in you didn't eat most days, and you were on cycle to achieve that weight loss. Isn't your HPTA shot now?
> 
> You shouldn't even give advice to a corpse. Coming from you it would be reckless for it's health.


Im not on cycle ATM. Or was.


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## GymRat97 (Apr 13, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Im not on cycle ATM. Or was.


I didn't say at the moment. Like I said, I've read your history across various forums as Habib and Intel.imperative


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 13, 2022)

GymRat97 said:


> I didn't say at the moment. Like I said, I've read your history across various forums as Habib and Intel.imperative


Oh fair enough.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 13, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> On an anabolic thread sure. A DNP thread? I'm quite lean here. I lost 16kgs in 1.5 months.



Despite you being a troll
I'll 3xplain shortly.

Losing fat and looking like shit is useless.
Being lean with large muscle mass is the goal

A great physique is the goal
Maintence of your hard earned gains is the goal

Any Moron can just not eat food and take DNP to look like shit


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 14, 2022)

GymRat97 said:


> How long after your last injection before you had blood drawn for lab work?
> 
> Also, your estradiol is very low for the amount of testosterone in your system
> 
> You didn't get any thyroid panels or anything else that was suggested in this thread? You only cared if your gear was good, but not if you have some other condition that is resulting in you not losing weight?


I jabbed on Saturday, blood work on Tuesday. 
I didn't get thyroid as the lab was not running these. I am trying from another lab.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 14, 2022)

Any thoughts on how I lost muscle mass, not fat, on DNP then while having this level of gear in me even on the bigger diet? Doesn't quite makes sense to me still?


----------



## TODAY (Apr 14, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Any thoughts on how I lost muscle mass, not fat, on DNP then while having this level of gear in me even on the bigger diet? Doesn't quite makes sense to me still?


DEXA


Is



Not





Accurate.



Fuck.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 14, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Any thoughts on how I lost muscle mass, not fat, on DNP then while having this level of gear in me even on the bigger diet? Doesn't quite makes sense to me still?


You didn't lose any muscle. Everyone here seema to agree that this is not possible with the gear and your surplus diet, and everyone here has pretty much said they don't believe your DEXA.... any DEXA is accurate.

The weight you lost was either fat or water. It wasn't muscle.


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## TODAY (Apr 14, 2022)

Send0 said:


> You didn't lose any muscle. Everyone here seema to agree that this is not possible with the gear and your surplus diet, and everyone here has pretty much said they don't believe your DEXA.... any DEXA is accurate.
> 
> The weight you lost was either fat or water. It wasn't muscle.


But can you explain to him how he lost muscle?


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## metsfan4life (Apr 14, 2022)

Man this thing is a complete cluster fauk of wrong happenings. Looks like the big issue here is the diet and training. From reading thru it, really looks like there was a big surplus in calories for the style of living and the training wasn’t as intense as what it was made out to be. DNP will work but you gotta actually be doing other things properly as you’re just gonna set up for failure. I highly doubt it was the DNp that was the “issue”. 

I’ll put this out there - I’ve got some DNP I know is good. If you’re worried about the quality, I’ll send ya 20 caps, enough for 200mg for 14 days plus a few. Caveat to it - you gotta log your diet and your training protocol BEFORE you run it. You had a lot of good info given to you and it wasn’t used. And another aspect - use the scale only, forget the dexa shit. This is a one person offer, not sourcing and only offering it bc think it’s the user and not the chemical that’s the issue. Least this way you know it’s solid DNP. Take it or leave it


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 14, 2022)

metsfan4life said:


> Man this thing is a complete cluster fauk of wrong happenings. Looks like the big issue here is the diet and training. From reading thru it, really looks like there was a big surplus in calories for the style of living and the training wasn’t as intense as what it was made out to be. DNP will work but you gotta actually be doing other things properly as you’re just gonna set up for failure. I highly doubt it was the DNp that was the “issue”.
> 
> I’ll put this out there - I’ve got some DNP I know is good. If you’re worried about the quality, I’ll send ya 20 caps, enough for 200mg for 14 days plus a few. Caveat to it - you gotta log your diet and your training protocol BEFORE you run it. You had a lot of good info given to you and it wasn’t used. And another aspect - use the scale only, forget the dexa shit. This is a one person offer, not sourcing and only offering it bc think it’s the user and not the chemical that’s the issue. Least this way you know it’s solid DNP. Take it or leave it


I'm open to this.
Can you help me with diet?
I got a better trainer, bodybuilder guy, for the training part but happy to do more sessions myself also.


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## metsfan4life (Apr 14, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I'm open to this.
> Can you help me with diet?
> I got a better trainer, bodybuilder guy, for the training part but happy to do more sessions myself also.


No, I can’t help you with your diet. That’s the issue that seems to be a concern here is your diet. There have been a lot of guys here that have told you some good things. I’m not a diet coach and really don’t like telling anyone how to eat bc I only know my own body which is completely different than most people. I think you should post your training up as well so we can see exactly how this trainer is better than your last one. Once you get that posted and get a good diet in order on here, I’ll be happy to send ya some that I personally have so you can see


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 14, 2022)

metsfan4life said:


> No, I can’t help you with your diet. That’s the issue that seems to be a concern here is your diet. There have been a lot of guys here that have told you some good things. I’m not a diet coach and really don’t like telling anyone how to eat bc I only know my own body which is completely different than most people. I think you should post your training up as well so we can see exactly how this trainer is better than your last one. Once you get that posted and get a good diet in order on here, I’ll be happy to send ya some that I personally have so you can see


Ok, deal. Meeting new coach today so will post all tomorrow.


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## metsfan4life (Apr 14, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Ok, deal. Meeting new coach today so will post all tomorrow.


10-4. Let us know what they say and ask them for a written program as you’d like to research it


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 15, 2022)

Spoke to the trainer. 
He said 2 months cutting. 3x compound movements with him and 30 mins cardio after. He said just use 250mg/ml 1 ml test E a week for now. 
Then he said we do a strength cycle. 
The hypertrophy. 
He is gonna write new diet he said my diet is crap. 
Will post what he writes.


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## Send0 (Apr 15, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Spoke to the trainer.
> He said 2 months cutting. 3x compound movements with him and 30 mins cardio after. He said just use 250mg/ml 1 ml test E a week for now.
> Then he said we do a strength cycle.
> The hypertrophy.
> ...


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 15, 2022)

Send0 said:


> View attachment 20727



Coaches are putting people on TRT+ now
with 3 exercises.
Who knew?


----------



## metsfan4life (Apr 15, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Spoke to the trainer.
> He said 2 months cutting. 3x compound movements with him and 30 mins cardio after. He said just use 250mg/ml 1 ml test E a week for now.
> Then he said we do a strength cycle.
> The hypertrophy.
> ...


So what you’re saying is your training was shit and the diet was also was shit? 

Like mentioned above, 3 exercises really doesn’t sound like much of a plan if at all. I sincerely hope he has a lot of of isolation going with those. See if he can give you a written plan bc that sound normal either. Not sure why 250mg/wk.


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## adamathis (Apr 15, 2022)

Adrenolin said:


> Too many liquid protein sources and WAYYY too much sodium. 1500mg of sodium is a high day for me.



I feel I may be in the same boat. Can too much sodium make you hold onto water and really affect your weight loss, or at least appearance of?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Send0 (Apr 15, 2022)

adamathis said:


> I feel I may be in the same boat. Can too much sodium make you hold onto water and really affect your weight loss, or at least appearance of?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Depends on the person. Some seem sensitive to this, where others are not.


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## milleniumgirl (Apr 15, 2022)

I wish you wouldn’t run DNP. Please be very careful with that stuff.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 15, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Coaches are putting people on TRT+ now
> with 3 exercises.
> Who knew?


Sorry I mis-typed. 3x a week with him. Not 3 exercises.
TRT was so I don't loose what I gained in cycle. The last time I came off completely and ran PCT, I regressed quite a bit,.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 15, 2022)

milleniumgirl said:


> I wish you wouldn’t run DNP. Please be very careful with that stuff.


This is what being a sick fucking cunt like Zyzz is all about bro. But we will be careful.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 15, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> This is what being a sick fucking cunt like Zyzz is all about bro. But we will be careful.



Go eat some food you fucking mouth breather


----------



## hard_gains (Apr 15, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> This is what being a sick fucking cunt like Zyzz is all about bro. But we will be careful.


----------



## metsfan4life (Apr 15, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Sorry I mis-typed. 3x a week with him. Not 3 exercises.
> TRT was so I don't loose what I gained in cycle. The last time I came off completely and ran PCT, I regressed quite a bit,.


Makes more sense with the 3x a week. Like to see what he has you doing. I wouldn’t start the dnp tho until you get your program and diet started properly. 

That’s normal when you come off… part of the game. Not going to retain 100%. But by doing TRt you’re also setting yourself up for a lifetime on it… unless that’s what you wanna do, then go for it. But losing some of it after cycling off is normal. It’s a pick and choose thing of what’s more important: TRT life or losing a little bit you’ve still gained some and can use that going forward to build and hone in


----------



## Send0 (Apr 15, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Sorry I mis-typed. 3x a week with him. Not 3 exercises.
> TRT was so I don't loose what I gained in cycle. The last time I came off completely and ran PCT, I regressed quite a bit,.


3x per week is training hard? Why even bother with steroids if you aren't pushing yourself?


----------



## Send0 (Apr 15, 2022)

metsfan4life said:


> Makes more sense with the 3x a week. Like to see what he has you doing. I wouldn’t start the dnp tho until you get your program and diet started properly.
> 
> That’s normal when you come off… part of the game. Not going to retain 100%. But by doing TRt you’re also setting yourself up for a lifetime on it… unless that’s what you wanna do, then go for it. But losing some of it after cycling off is normal. It’s a pick and choose thing of what’s more important: TRT life or losing a little bit you’ve still gained some and can use that going forward to build and hone in


I don't know.. trainer says take 250mg of test per week, and then says train 3x per week?

That seems like trying to make up lack of training with drugs. But to your point we'd need to see the programming.

I'm not holding my breath based on the history here. 😅


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 15, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I don't know.. trainer says take 250mg of test per week, and then says train 3x per week?
> 
> That seems like trying to make up lack of training with drugs. But to your point we'd need to see the programming.
> 
> I'm not holding my breath based on the history here. 😅


I'm waiting for him to provide this and the diet.
3x with him. 2x myself though.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 15, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> This is what being a sick fucking cunt like Zyzz is all about bro. But we will be careful.


Zyzz died. 

Keep being a “sick fucking cunt” we can all hope!


----------



## Intel.imperitive (Apr 15, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Zyzz died.
> 
> Keep being a “sick fucking cunt” we can all hope!


He had a genetic heart condition. And he was in a sauna.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 15, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> He had a genetic heart condition. And he was in a sauna.



Meth in a sauna
Not a good deal
Looking up to a coke/meth head
Not a smart deal


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 16, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> He had a genetic heart condition. And he was in a sauna.



Once again, you’re demonstrating how fucking retarded a person can be. 

He had an undiagnosed congenital heart disease. Simply, his heart is weaker than a normal person’s heart. Kind of relatable to you but in your case, your brain is weaker than a normal person’s brain. 

Now a congenital heart disease itself wouldn’t kill a person. And even a “sauna” wouldn’t be enough to exasperate the condition. But toss just about every drug willy nilly into his body (again, looking at you Intel) and it’s a ticking time bomb. He could have died at any point. 

Is it from the roids? Probably not, but unchecked blood pressure and hemocrit would definitely not be good. Take the high blood pressure and add the cocaine meth and ecstasy and boom! The old ticker just can’t handle that. 

So shut the fuck up again Intel. It’s NOT the undiagnosed congenital heart disease that killed him. It was all the drugs. Everything about his shitty “yolo” lifestyle killed him. Now, I know he’s your idol because the “bullied used his anger to fuel his success” but see, that’s the problem. He was bullied because he was a weirdo and weirdos don’t know how to ever be cool. You’re a weirdo and that’s why you should give up on this whole lifestyle. You’ll never make it but in the off chance that you do, the success will be short-lived, dork. 

Go read a book, study, and be smart like the rest of the curry fuckers. One day you smart injuns will be fighting virtual wars with the Asians for who rules the world. Let us meatheads get all the good pussy now while we can.


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## TODAY (Apr 16, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> He had a genetic heart condition. And he was in a sauna.


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## metsfan4life (Apr 16, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I don't know.. trainer says take 250mg of test per week, and then says train 3x per week?
> 
> That seems like trying to make up lack of training with drugs. But to your point we'd need to see the programming.
> 
> I'm not holding my breath based on the history here. 😅


Yeah i mean putting him in TRT (which 250mg/wk is a high dose for most) just doesn’t seem like a smart idea for a trainer to tell someone that needs to get their diet and training under their belt. 3x a week training with him may not be bad as sounds more like foundation work. But again, gotta see what he brings back on paper with the diet and training. 

Will sure be interested to see how dnp and proper training/diet turns out. I bet ya it’s a world of difference, just my 2 and half cents


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 18, 2022)

New Diet Proposal:

Meal 1
50g oatmeal with milk
100g mixed berries 
1 scoop protein (mixed into oatmeal)
1 tsp honey

Meal 2
3 eggs + 2 whites (boiled or fried with cooking spra)
200g potatoes
Salad with 1 tbsp olive oil
20g Lindt 78% dark chocolate

Meal 3
150g low fat cottage cheese
50g low fat greek yogurt
Any fruit
2 slices bread with 2 tsp peanut butter, 1 tsp jam

Meal 4
60g buckwheat with milk
100g mixed berries
1 tsp jam 

Meal 5
200g low fat cottage cheese
70g greek yogurt
1 banana
1 tsp honey


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 18, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> New Diet Proposal:
> 
> Meal 1
> 50g oatmeal with milk
> ...


Lol. 

You won’t need the DNP. You’ll just shit all that soft food out. Wtf is wrong with you guys and this quest to be as feminine as possible. I just don’t get it. 

Be a fucking man.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 18, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Lol.
> 
> You won’t need the DNP. You’ll just shit all that soft food out. Wtf is wrong with you guys and this quest to be as feminine as possible. I just don’t get it.
> 
> Be a fucking man.


This is what the new trainer gave.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 18, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> This is what the new trainer gave.


Get a different trainer. Rather yet, dump a days worth of that slop on that trainers head and then get a new trainer.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 18, 2022)

That diet looks like something a porn star would eat leading up to her quadruple enema right before her anal bbc gang bang with 40 of her closest guy friends.


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## metsfan4life (Apr 18, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> New Diet Proposal:
> 
> Meal 1
> 50g oatmeal with milk
> ...


What’s your dietary restrictions again? I just can’t see that being much of a solid diet. Obviously you have some restriction with meat so I’d be sure he’s fully aware and has worked with someone like that bc it just doesn’t look right. Maybe I’m wrong bc I can’t eat that way. Not too sure oatmeal milk and protein is going to taste to go. Better off just eating the oatmeal with water and mixing the shake with milk, I promise ya you’ll feel fuller splitting em up. Just so much dairy in there


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 18, 2022)

Wheres the protein?


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 18, 2022)

metsfan4life said:


> What’s your dietary restrictions again? I just can’t see that being much of a solid diet. Obviously you have some restriction with meat so I’d be sure he’s fully aware and has worked with someone like that bc it just doesn’t look right. Maybe I’m wrong bc I can’t eat that way. Not too sure oatmeal milk and protein is going to taste to go. Better off just eating the oatmeal with water and mixing the shake with milk, I promise ya you’ll feel fuller splitting em up. Just so much dairy in there


At the moment I eat/drink everything except meat/fish. I am working with a Doctor to try and get chicken/fish into my diet, but working with the foods I can eat meanwhile. I am surprised rice or pasta or something is not in there. Buckwheat are like cereal flakes so that is a solid meal I guess.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 18, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> At the moment I eat/drink everything except meat/fish. I am working with a Doctor to try and get chicken/fish into my diet, but working with the foods I can eat meanwhile. I am surprised rice or pasta or something is not in there. Buckwheat are like cereal flakes so that is a solid meal I guess.


How’d you get so fat to start with?


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 18, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> How’d you get so fat to start with?


I was leaner before but last year I came off all gear and regressed quite a bit because of something the endocrinologist couldn't figure out. However these reset naturally thankfully hence I am doing what I can to get back to how I was.


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## lifter6973 (Apr 18, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Wheres the protein?


jizz swallowing (not listed)


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## Cronus (Apr 18, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I was leaner before but last year I came off all gear and regressed quite a bit because of something the endocrinologist couldn't figure out. However these reset naturally thankfully hence I am doing what I can to get back to how I was.


I'm not sure this answers bigbaldbeardguy's question. Lots of people come off gear and don't get fat. 🤔

Did the endocrinologist ever figure it out, and was it the reason for your fat gain?


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 18, 2022)

Cronus said:


> I'm not sure this answers bigbaldbeardguy's question. Lots of people come off gear and don't get fat. 🤔
> 
> Did the endocrinologist ever figure it out, and was it the reason for your fat gain?


He didn't. 
I think there was a big phycological element (bad breakup, horrible job etc) but that all got better, as did I.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 18, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> At the moment I eat/drink everything except meat/fish. I am working with a Doctor to try and get chicken/fish into my diet, but working with the foods I can eat meanwhile. I am surprised rice or pasta or something is not in there. Buckwheat are like cereal flakes so that is a solid meal I guess.



Can you get specific about working Chicken and fish into your diet?
What's the diagnosis that prevents this?

I ask because many of us on here have significant GI issues.


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 18, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Can you get specific about working Chicken and fish into your diet?
> What's the diagnosis that prevents this?
> 
> I ask because many of us on here have significant GI issues.


I just throw it up. It seems a subconscious issue. As I can drink beef protein and have fish oil capsules and have no issues, so clearly its not a digestive/physical issue. I'm seeing a hypnosis person to help me. It may not work though.


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## metsfan4life (Apr 18, 2022)

As many have said, I’m interested as well in the meat situation. If you’re able to swallow down the oils and proteins (tho not entirely the same) it doesn’t sound like a mental block with it. Can you potentially provide any input as to how long that’s been going on or anything in the past that might coincide? As for the endocrine - interested there as well bc if you got heavy and there were no issues medically like diabetes or thyroid, it may coincide with your life changes with relationship etc as that can be very hard depending on the situation. Do you find now that you’ve moved along and in a better situation, that you’re overall feeling better and also healthier? 

Is it all Mary like beef chicken fish pork? Or just just certain ones? Can you eat beef or just able to drink the protein?


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## HighHeater (Apr 18, 2022)

Glad to see looking into the diet and training as I think you’ll see a big difference here, even without the dnp. No hard feelings towards ya but I think you see there were some things here that you’re going to enjoy changing and seeing positive outcomes from. Following along to see how things go


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 18, 2022)

metsfan4life said:


> As many have said, I’m interested as well in the meat situation. If you’re able to swallow down the oils and proteins (tho not entirely the same) it doesn’t sound like a mental block with it. Can you potentially provide any input as to how long that’s been going on or anything in the past that might coincide? As for the endocrine - interested there as well bc if you got heavy and there were no issues medically like diabetes or thyroid, it may coincide with your life changes with relationship etc as that can be very hard depending on the situation. Do you find now that you’ve moved along and in a better situation, that you’re overall feeling better and also healthier?
> 
> Is it all Mary like beef chicken fish pork? Or just just certain ones? Can you eat beef or just able to drink the protein?


To be honest, I only tried beef, chicken and fish. Had the same issue with all. The issue has been there for a long time (many years). I was brought up vegetarian so even learning how to eat eggs took a year or so but at least I never threw it up. It is something about the texture and smell (rather than the actual food) that puts me off. Once, chicken was mixed with some spices, and I had a sandwich with it not knowing it was chicken, and I didn't throw it up. 

I think it is mental as I have the same issue with veg substitutes that look like meat e.g. quorn etc. 
I can drink the protein and fish oil and don't throw it up.

When I had my breakup, my hormones went all over the place, as did cortisol. But this was coupled with a really tough job. When I moved to a better job and got over the breakup, I definitely felt a lot better and healthier overall, yes. But it did leave my body is not the best shape hence trying to get back to how I was.


----------



## metsfan4life (Apr 18, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> To be honest, I only tried beef, chicken and fish. Had the same issue with all. The issue has been there for a long time (many years). I was brought up vegetarian so even learning how to eat eggs took a year or so but at least I never threw it up. It is something about the texture and smell (rather than the actual food) that puts me off. Once, chicken was mixed with some spices, and I had a sandwich with it not knowing it was chicken, and I didn't throw it up.
> 
> I think it is mental as I have the same issue with veg substitutes that look like meat e.g. quorn etc.
> I can drink the protein and fish oil and don't throw it up.
> ...


Completely understand on the breakup part, that’s reasonable. Not as in to get out of the gym and eating different but understandably that it can wreck havoc 

It does sound like a mental block as it’s the texture and it’s the knowledge. If you get grossed out thinking it might be meat then it’s gotta be mental. I’d say just mix up some chicken in some spice ya and rice and something and try that. You’re gonna know it’s in there but it will help with the texture as it’s not that normal texture of chicken


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

metsfan4life said:


> Completely understand on the breakup part, that’s reasonable. Not as in to get out of the gym and eating different but understandably that it can wreck havoc
> 
> It does sound like a mental block as it’s the texture and it’s the knowledge. If you get grossed out thinking it might be meat then it’s gotta be mental. I’d say just mix up some chicken in some spice ya and rice and something and try that. You’re gonna know it’s in there but it will help with the texture as it’s not that normal texture of chicken


I've tried all of this, but as soon as I bite into the piece, the texture comes back, and hell breaks loose.
I hope hypnotherapy works for me tbh.


----------



## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I've tried all of this, but as soon as I bite into the piece, the texture comes back, and hell breaks loose.
> I hope hypnotherapy works for me tbh.


Have you tried very lean ground meat, and stirring it constantly while cooking? Lean meat doesn't stick together well at all, and the constant stirring will result in the ground meat being like little granules instead of chunks.

Basically at that size, you wouldn't be.able to get enough bite on the meat to be able to even tell that there's texture. 

Take this and mix it into a rice bowl. I'd be very surprised if you could feel any texture from the meat at all.


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

Cronus said:


> Have you tried very lean ground meat, and stirring it constantly while cooking? Lean meat doesn't stick together well at all, and the constant stirring will result in the ground meat being like little granules instead of chunks.
> 
> Basically at that size, you wouldn't be.able to get enough bite on the meat to be able to even tell that there's texture.
> 
> Take this and mix it into a rice bowl. I'd be very surprised if you could feel any texture from the meat at all.


Yes, the smell is then what kills it for me. I've also done like mince in spaghetti bolognese, still can't swallow it.


----------



## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Yes, the smell is then what kills it for me. I've also done like mince in spaghetti bolognese, still can't swallow it.


You seem to have quite a few mental hurdles that need to be cleared. Hope you are able to get your diet and training in order, and can get back into the shape you'd like to be in.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 19, 2022)

So I’ll just read between the lines and guess that you drank a bunch of beer and that’s what lead to the getting fat. 

This is the most confusing thread. You can’t keep animal protein down because of the “texture” but you’re going to eat cottage cheese? I don’t know. I get a very strong troll vibe in here. 

What’s the calories and macros on that diet that your doctor devised for you? Let’s start there. I need some information from YOU if you want any additional advice from us.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 19, 2022)

Cronus said:


> You seem to have quite a few mental hurdles that need to be cleared. Hope you are able to get your diet and training in order, and can get back into the shape you'd like to be in.


Yea. I’m thinking the mental problems need to be fixed before he starts tossing the stress of a rigid diet. The diet and getting thin can wait. That’d be a bandaid at this point.


----------



## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea. I’m thinking the mental problems need to be fixed before he starts tossing the stress of a rigid diet. The diet and getting thin can wait. That’d be a bandaid at this point.


I mean he doesn't have to eat animal protein, assuming he has the know how and time to combine other food sources to create a whole protein chain. However his diet would sure be easier if he could stomach meat.

This is why vegans tend to either look fat, or malnourished. While it's possible to create whole proteins without eating animal products, it's not easy and most people fail at it.

If he can't eat animal protein then I'd be inclined to tell him to just drink his protein. I don't believe it to be a good approach but given his issues with being able to swallow meat, it's better than the alternative.

Technically if he just ate at maintenance calories, got about 1 - 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight, and did an hour of cardio 5 days a week, then he'd probably put on muscle while losing fat. Albeit slowly, but this might be a better approach for him based on what I've read in this thread so far. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So I’ll just read between the lines and guess that you drank a bunch of beer and that’s what lead to the getting fat.
> 
> This is the most confusing thread. You can’t keep animal protein down because of the “texture” but you’re going to eat cottage cheese? I don’t know. I get a very strong troll vibe in here.
> 
> What’s the calories and macros on that diet that your doctor devised for you? Let’s start there. I need some information from YOU if you want any additional advice from us.


I don't drink alcohol.
Cottage cheese I blend with water so its basically like thick milk. 
The PT devised the diet not a Doctor. I am plugging it all into myfitnesspal now. Will revert back with macros.


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

Cronus said:


> I mean he doesn't have to eat animal protein, assuming he has the know how and time to combine other food sources to create a whole protein chain. However his diet would sure be easier if he could stomach meat.
> 
> This is why vegans tend to either look fat, or malnourished. While it's possible to create whole proteins without eating animal products, it's not easy and most people fail at it.
> 
> ...


Well I was pretty much drinking most of my protein (whey, egg whites etc) and then got criticism on this forum that it was too much fluids....

Also I'm not vegan as I can have any dairy.


----------



## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Well I was pretty much drinking most of my protein (whey, egg whites etc) and then got criticism on this forum that it was too much fluids....
> 
> Also I'm not vegan as I can have any dairy.


The problem with liquid protein is mostly the absorption rate. There are also some amino acids that are not as abundant in whey or egg white powder as they are in meats, but for the average person this isn't that big of a deal.

Liquid protein; such as whey, just passes through the gut too quickly to be able to absorb all of it. You could reduce the amount of protein to be between 25-30g; which you should be able to absorb most of that and put it towards muscle protein synthesis. Anything more than that you will typically excrete out the unabsorbed protein.

There are ways to slow the absorption rate down, but I'm not sure I've seen any studies that outline how absorption rate is changed as you add things like fat, fiber, slow carbs to a whey protein shake. So it's basically a crap shoot, hoping to slow it down further to be able to use more of what you take in.

TLDR; while protein sources are better, but if you can't stomach meat then either drink your protein or eat it in the form of dairy products.


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## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

I'm just eyeballing your diet, but it looks like you're going to come up short in the protein department.

Looks like maybe 150-170g of protein in the diet you laid out. It doesn't look like many calories either, maybe 2000 or a little less? But again I'm just eyeballing based on experience... I haven't actually bothered calculating the ingredients using a data base or an app like MFP.

Let us know what your macros and calories come out to once youve got it all entered.


----------



## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

Cronus said:


> I'm just eyeballing your diet, but it looks like you're going to come up short in the protein department.
> 
> Looks like maybe 150-170g of protein in the diet you laid out. It doesn't look like many calories either, maybe 2000 or a little less? But again I'm just eyeballing based on experience... I haven't actually bothered calculating the ingredients using a data base or an app like MFP.
> 
> Let us know what your macros and calories come out to once youve got it all entered.


I'm getting rather lost. The advice was to cut so he gave me a cutting diet. Now its an issue?


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 19, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I'm getting rather lost. The advice was to cut so he gave me a cutting diet. Now its an issue?


wHaT aRe yOuR mAcRoS oN tHaT dIeT

Troll senses are tingling. These guys just drag the simplest shit out. A PT devises a diet and you just take it at face value. 🙄

If you don’t get enough protein you’ll lose fat as well as muscle. That’s why he said “it looks like it’s not enough protein. 

To sustain a diet, you should be -500 calories from maintenance. Otherwise you rebound right back. You can’t just starve yourself. 

Why didn’t you ask the “expert” PT these questions?


----------



## lifter6973 (Apr 19, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So I’ll just read between the lines and guess that you drank a bunch of beer and that’s what lead to the getting fat.
> 
> This is the most confusing thread. You can’t keep animal protein down because of the “texture” but you’re going to eat cottage cheese? I don’t know. I get a very strong troll vibe in here.
> 
> What’s the calories and macros on that diet that your doctor devised for you? Let’s start there. I need some information from YOU if you want any additional advice from us.


I read a few of his posts and stopped. Was waiting for this. I feel a SUPER STRONG troll vibe. He reminds me of this guy on another board that supposedly had all kinds of issues and eventually starting asking people for free gear and money.


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## Beti ona (Apr 19, 2022)

If you can't eat chicken or fish, eat egg whites and throw in some yolk.


----------



## Beti ona (Apr 19, 2022)

Cronus said:


> The problem with liquid protein is mostly the absorption rate. There are also some amino acids that are not as abundant in whey or egg white powder as they are in meats, but for the average person this isn't that big of a deal.
> 
> Liquid protein; such as whey, just passes through the gut too quickly to be able to absorb all of it. You could reduce the amount of protein to be between 25-30g; which you should be able to absorb most of that and put it towards muscle protein synthesis. Anything more than that you will typically excrete out the unabsorbed protein.
> 
> ...



The egg whites must be cooked, their absorption rate if you add some vegetables and some fats, is not too fast, about 3 hours.

Whey protein can be chewed directly in the mouth, without water, so it will take longer to digest, although if you take it after training there is no problem in speed, in fact, it is what you want.

You have the casein powder that you can use between meals.


----------



## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> The egg whites must be cooked, their absorption rate if you add some vegetables and some fats, is not too fast, about 3 hours.
> 
> Whey protein can be chewed directly in the mouth, without water, so it will take longer to digest, although if you take it after training there is no problem in speed, in fact, it is what you want.
> 
> You have the casein powder that you can use between meals.


Casein tastes gross 😂, but all fair points. Although I'm not sure that "chewing" whey vs drinking it actually makes it absorb any slower.

Do you have any studies on that specifically? I'd be interested in learning more about that process and why it changes the digestion rate.


----------



## Beti ona (Apr 19, 2022)

Any chewed food will take longer to digest than a shake or smoothie, it's not rocket science. However, the whey won't take long regardless of how you take it.

I love casein, you can mix it with a tablespoon of cocoa, or strawberries, and sweetener. You can also mix it with cream


----------



## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Any chewed food will take longer to digest than a shake or smoothie, it's not rocket science. However, the whey won't take long regardless of how you take it.


Can you elaborate on this part. Do you mean that the difference in absorption rate between chewing whey, and drinking whey, is marginal?


----------



## Beti ona (Apr 19, 2022)

I don't like to argue or waste time on obvious things. 

I also hate those who look for scientific evidence about everything, without understanding that in the world of bodybuilding and nutrition, more of knowledge is based on anecdotal cases. No damn lab is going to spend resources studying everything we do.

Digestion begins in the mouth at chewing, if you grind your food in a blender and swallow it, digestion will be faster (but of poorer quality because you have skipped step one of the digestion process, so whenever you can, it is better to eat your food than to drink it), and therefore absorption.

If instead of making a shake in water, you chew it by spoonfuls, it will take 10 minutes to eat it, instead of the 20 seconds it takes to drink the shake.


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## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> I don't like to argue or waste time on obvious things.
> 
> I also hate those who look for scientific evidence about everything, without understanding that in the world of bodybuilding and nutrition, more of knowledge is based on anecdotal cases. No damn lab is going to spend resources studying everything we do.
> 
> ...


It's not an argument, it was a question.

My confusion came from the fact that whey protein is already processed and broken down.

I was wondering why would introduction of water or liquid (i.e. shake) suddenly make whey digest faster compared to just eating the powder. I mean chances are you're going to drink something to swallow down the powder you chew right? Does that not end up being the same as making a shake?

Not an argument; I was trying to understand the logic, and wrap my head around why digestion would be slower by chewing something that's already processed into a powder.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

I put everything into myfitnesspal and its coming to 2250 calories, 306g carb, 63g fat, 148g protein 
This seems off to me.


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## Cronus (Apr 19, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I put everything into myfitnesspal and its coming to 2250 calories, 306g carb, 63g fat, 148g protein
> This seems off to me.


Seems about right to me. I even said it looks to be in the neighborhood of about 150g protein and 2000 calories.

If you don't trust MFP, then you can always buy the ingredients for the diet and calculate it out manually based on the information on the nutrition facts label. However I don't think the numbers are going to change that much.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

Cronus said:


> Seems about right to me. I even said it looks to be in the neighborhood of about 150g protein and 2000 calories.
> 
> If you don't trust MFP, then you can always buy the ingredients for the diet and calculate it out manually based on the information on the nutrition facts label. However I don't think the numbers are going to change that much.


I trust MFP. But is this diet okay then for the cut?


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## Beti ona (Apr 19, 2022)

Cronus said:


> It's not an argument, it was a question.
> 
> My confusion came from the fact that whey protein is already processed and broken down.
> 
> ...



If I'm going to drink a little bit of water with each spoonful, but it takes me about 10 minutes, and not 20 seconds.

The reason why I chew it is simply to have a greater feeling of satiety and because the whey does not taste good with too much water.

I still feel like it's going to digest more slowly.

But if I wanted to slow down digestion and absorption I would take it with nuts and vegetables, but I am taking it after training and before a solid meal, so I don't care if it is digested quickly.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 19, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> If I'm going to drink a little bit of water with each spoonful, but it takes me about 10 minutes, and not 20 seconds.
> 
> The reason why I chew it is simply to have a greater feeling of satiety and because the whey does not taste good with too much water.
> 
> ...



Agreed
A solid portion of digestion is via saliva
It plays an important role for certain and shoulsnt be under valued


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 19, 2022)

I made this diet. What do you think? 2 shakes, 2 solid meals, 1 in between.


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## Send0 (Apr 19, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I made this diet. What do you think? 2 shakes, 2 solid meals, 1 in between.


I think you could add in an additional 25-40g of protein, but this is subjective and everyone will have a different opinion.

Aim for 0.25 - 0.5lbs lost per week. If you lose more than this for multiple weeks in a row, consider adding another 100-150 calories in the form of protein.

This suggestion is not because losing more is detrimental, but rather to teach discipline and how to properly adjust your diet based on the results you are seeing on the scale and in the mirror combined.

You could very well keep the same macros and calories, and it is better than the diet you started with.

Only other suggestion I have to make is that I see no fruits or vegetables really. Micronutrients are important. Consider swapping some of your carb sources with fruits or veggies.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 20, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I think you could add in an additional 25-40g of protein, but this is subjective and everyone will have a different opinion.
> 
> Aim for 0.25 - 0.5lbs lost per week. If you lose more than this for multiple weeks in a row, consider adding another 100-150 calories in the form of protein.
> 
> ...


I can add more egg whites, a banana, and mixed veg to the rice meal?


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## Send0 (Apr 20, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I can add more egg whites, a banana, and mixed veg to the rice meal?


Adding more egg whitea is fine... but for carbs I was thinking of swapping out some of your starchy carbs and adding fiberous ones (fruit or veggies).

For example, for meal 1 try replacing between 50-100% of the oat flour with a fruit. For meal 4, try slightly reducing the rice and beans and add in veggies (you won't need to reduce rice or beans by much. Veggies don't add much carbs by volume).

These are just examples of changes you could make.


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## Beti ona (Apr 20, 2022)

Your diet has too many carbs and too little fat, I'm a keto fan, and I wouldn't want to run DNP with that many carbs


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 20, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Your diet has too many carbs and too little fat, I'm a keto fan, and I wouldn't want to run DNP with that many carbs


I'm trying to figure out a cutting diet or cutting diet for DNP? I am a bit confused now.


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## Cronus (Apr 20, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> Your diet has too many carbs and too little fat, I'm a keto fan, and I wouldn't want to run DNP with that many carbs


I've used DNP using a 40p / 40c / 20f split; 2500 calories total. It did not make me hot, and dropped plenty of fat, at a low 200mg dose

Everyone is different. Given that the OP ran this earlier with over 3k cal, I would think he should be fine?


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## Cronus (Apr 20, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I'm trying to figure out a cutting diet or cutting diet for DNP? I am a bit confused now.


They're the same thing IMO.

Some people like to run low carbs while on DNP to avoid getting unnecessarily hot. This is all individual really, some will not get hot at a certain dose, whereas others will sweat bullets.

Use a diet that's easy for you to build and adhere to. You can modify as needed if you have to.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 20, 2022)

Would the below work?

Make the shake and egg rice with veges in the morning. Have half the shake in the morning, half before sleeping. split the rice meals out 2-3x during the day.


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## Cronus (Apr 20, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> Would the below work?
> 
> Make the shake and egg rice with veges in the morning. Have half the shake in the morning, half before sleeping. split the rice meals out 2-3x during the day.


This looks better in regards to macros and calories; considering your dietary limitations.


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## Cronus (Apr 20, 2022)

I am surprised to see that much sodium in your liquid egg whites... but I just checked my own egg whites and there really is that much sodium in there 😅.

If you feel you are holding water weight, then consider getting your egg whites from actual eggs instead. That would remove 1200mg of sodium from the diet.

Personally I do fine with sodium, but I know that's not the case for everyone.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 20, 2022)

Cronus said:


> I am surprised to see that much sodium in your liquid egg whites... but I just checked my own egg whites and there really is that much sodium in there 😅.
> 
> If you feel you are holding water weight, then consider getting your egg whites from actual eggs instead. That would remove 1200mg of sodium from the diet.
> 
> Personally I do fine with sodium, but I know that's not the case for everyone.


Yes I actually emailed them to ask why there was so much sodium lol. They said it was just like this. I have been drinking 3-4 cups of liquid eggs and not had issues generally.

Is the diet okay for a DNP cycle?


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## Beti ona (Apr 20, 2022)

Cronus said:


> I've used DNP using a 40p / 40c / 20f split; 2500 calories total. It did not make me hot, and dropped plenty of fat, at a low 200mg dose
> 
> Everyone is different. Given that the OP ran this earlier with over 3k cal, I would think he should be fine?


If you want to destroy fat, it is better to reduce insulin levels and have lower carbs.


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## Cronus (Apr 20, 2022)

Beti ona said:


> If you want to destroy fat, it is better to reduce insulin levels and have lower carbs.


I don't disagree it is optimal, but I still achieved a loss of about 0.9lbs per day on my last DNP run by just being in a caloric deficit and doing cardio.

In general the OP *seems* to be having a hard time with diet. In his case, I'd say making something he can adhere to is more important at this stage than trying to be absolutely perfect. There will future opportunities for him to optimize once he gets his diet/discipline locked down.

This is purely opinion based on what I've read in this thread about the OP. I am no dietician. I'm just a guy who has gone through the struggles of learning how to diet, using incremental steps, and eventually learned how to diet properly for my own needs.


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## Cronus (Apr 20, 2022)

Cronus said:


> I don't disagree it is optimal, but I still achieved a loss of about 0.9lbs per day on my last DNP run by just being in a caloric deficit and doing cardio.
> 
> In general the OP *seems* to be having a hard time with diet. In his case, I'd say making something he can adhere to is more important at this stage than trying to be absolutely perfect. There will future opportunities for him to optimize once he gets his diet/discipline locked down.
> 
> This is purely opinion based on what I've read in this thread about the OP. I am no dietician. I'm just a guy who has gone through the struggles of learning how to diet, using incremental steps, and eventually learned how to diet properly for my own needs.


To be more clear, I'm not arguing. Just offering another perspective from a person who used to struggle with diet.


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## metsfan4life (Apr 20, 2022)

I think the biggest issue here is that OP is really new to it all. Yeah he ran the DNp at 200mg but was severely high on coalitions and in a job where not doing anything much more than sitting. That alone is going to cause an issue with allowing the dnp to work. Then the fact that the exercise was not nearly as what it should have been. There’s a lot of different opinions on what works for people but I think the only thing that is going to work here is he pick a diet and stick to it, period. Don’t “diet for DNp”, just diet, period. Learn what works for your body bc you may need more fats, you may do better off with low fats. There’s only one way to learn… stick to it. Issue with spoon feeding all these different answers to “what about this?” “Will this work” etc is only going to eventually put right back at square one. The diet your PT gave you has been critiqued, I would t drastically make changes, just the minor addition that has been mentioned. We still need the exercise program as well. But trying to change way too many things is only going to be back at square 1. Can’t spoon feed it all as you’re gonna have to pick one and stick with it - no one on here csn chose that for you… you gotta pick and stick sit it, for a good while


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## Beti ona (Apr 21, 2022)

The most important thing is to establish a plan, follow it over time and make the necessary changes at the right time. If you can follow your diet, then it's easier, but don't doubt that the time will come to change the distribution of macros and increase the amount of cardio.

In a diet high in CH, the next step will be to reduce the calories from that food source, the fats should be kept where they are, as high as possible, and the protein, in your case, I do not think it is necessary to increase it more since you're a novice and you don't have a lot of mass or the ability to cause massive muscle wasting with hard weight training.

DNP or not, diet should be the same, and is always the key to fat loss and body recomposition.


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 27, 2022)

I am following the diet attached. Only 1 shake in the morning (that I split into 2, have half, then half after a few hours). All other meals are solid (the eggs I make like a waffle).

For training, decided to not go with a PT for now. There is a nice virtual reality gym training (https://www.blackbox-vr.com) which is a mix of cardio and resistance which seems good while I cut. I can feel my heart rate higher and my body working out properly. Will keep in this for a few months and see.


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## bigrobbie (Apr 27, 2022)

Send0 said:


> He's 207lbs. His maintenance is definitely well above 2000 calories.
> 
> He's probably eating more than he thinks, and not working out as hard as he thinks he is. Also 30 minutes of cardio a day isn't much really. It takes a while just to get heart rate up to a good zone; so at best he's doing 15-20 minutes of cardio that's actually worth anything.


Did he mention his height?


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## lseactuary90 (Apr 27, 2022)

bigrobbie said:


> Did he mention his height?


6 foot.


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## bigrobbie (Apr 27, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> I'm trying to figure out a cutting diet or cutting diet for DNP? I am a bit confused now.


DNP is gonna make you feel like shit, just a heads up


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## bigrobbie (Apr 27, 2022)

lseactuary90 said:


> 6 foot.


Ok. Yes 270 is up there brother. I prefer T3 and Albuterol to DNP


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