# Newbies Complete Guide To Bloodwork



## TomJ

Hey everyone, after a conversation in the shoutbox I checked the forum and couldnt find a comprehensive guide to bloodwork, so im deciding to write my own so that there is something to easily reference people to when they have questions regarding ordering, getting, or interpreting bloodwork.

There are certainly gaps in my knowledge when it comes to bloodwork interpretation on more niche cases and I am hoping that others will add their knowledge to this thread or correct me if I write something incorrect, I will edit the post to include as much of that info as i can.


*Why do we get bloodwork?*
We, as recreational PED users, should be getting bloodwork regularly to monitor our health and specific markers to ensure we are being as responsible and minimizing our health risks. 
Specifically *pre cycle bloodwork* is used for a reference baseline, to compare to later, as well as to ensure there that you are in good enough health such that a cycle does not pose any unnecessary risk to you. 

*Mid cycle bloodwork* is used to confirm that your testosterone is authentic, check your aromatization rate and estradiol to dial in AI dosage, and to confirm that your health markers are still in good order to continue your blast/cycle.

*post cycle bloodwork* is used to assess the success of your PCT protocol (if you are not on TRT or blasting and cruising), check the damage/stress done from your cycle, and to see how well you tolerated your cycle in its totality.


*When do we get bloodwork?*
There are four common times/periods that we commonly get bloodwork done. In short, we get bloodwork whenever we introduce changes to see how those changes have effected our health. 
Pre, Mid, Post, and Between cycles

*Pre Cycle *- This is done *immediately before beginning a cycle* to establish a baseline and to check that you are in good health before starting your cycle

*Mid Cycle* - Mid cycle bloodwork is done at some point during your cycle after serum levels have stabilized, generally speaking, *this is 4-5 weeks into your cycle for the most common medium/long esters* (cypionate, enanthate, decanoate ect). For those who are unsure how they aromatize (the process of converting testosterone to estrogen) this bloodwork is used to see how well a particular dose of testosterone is tolerated and if and what dose of an AI is needed for that individual (this is HIGHLY individual, and without this bloodwork it is impossible to dial in an AI dosage accurately). For those that are unsure of the authenticity of their Test product this bloodwork can also be used to show if the product is real or not and will give you a good idea if it is under dosed or not for most people.

*Post Cycle* - Regardless if an individual cruises/trt or pcts, post cycle bloodwork is arguably the most important, in conjunction to baseline precycle bloodwork. *This bloodwork is done after completing your PCT protocol, or after your serum levels have returned to normal TRT/Cruise levels. *This is to check lipids, liver stress, blood markers, ect to see how damaging/stressful your cycle has been.

*Between Cycles *- This bloodwork is generally excessive, most people skip this, but is still important for those that want to be sure about their health or those that had concerning results from their post cycle bloodwork. *This set of bloodwork is done generally 2-3 months after post cycle bloods if doing a longer downtime between cycles. *The purpose of this set is to access recovery of certain markers, this is somewhat redundant with precycle bloodwork for those that are doing shorter downtimes.



*How/Where Do We Get Bloodwork*
Some people can get limited bloodwork ordered through their doctor, but most individuals prefer to order their tests privately. 
These are two of the common websites to order tests through

https://www.jasonhealth.com/ (my personal preference)









						Hormone Testing Blood Work For Men & Women Near You. Blood Test by Private MD Labs
					

Order lab tests in 1 minute online without a doctor's visit with Private MD Labs. Take your test at a private lab the same day! Browse 1000’s of blood tests today!




					www.privatemdlabs.com
				




Simply select your location, select the tests you want, pay for them, and then you will be emailed a requisition that you can print out and bring to a testing facility near you as if you got it straight from your doctor. 


*What Do I Get Tested?*
I use jasonhealth, so I will use their test names and terminology for this section, privatemdlabs offers much of the same testing, but bundles them differently under some different names.

*All Relevant Tests/Terminology*

*CMP *- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. Cheap test to get most basic health markers checked. S*hould always be included* since its so cheap and covers a wide array of markers
*CBC* - Comprehensive Blood Panel. Another dirt cheap test for detailed blood markers such as WBC and hematocrit. *Should always be included*
*Lipids - *checks cholesterol levels. Cheap. *Should always be included*
*TSH *- Basic thyroid test. cheap. *Should be done intermittently* (I include this every other set of bloodwork, again, its cheap)
*CRP *- C-Reactive Protein. Medium cost. Inflammation test/marker. *Should be done pre-cycle for your first baseline, then intermittently*. (I include this in every other set of bloodwork)
*PSA* - Prostate test. medium cost. Should be done once a year, at initial baseline, and post cycle if using 19-nors (tren, nandrolone, ect)
*Testosterone - *self explanatory, serum testosterone test. Pricy cost. Should be done during i*nitial baseline,* *mid cycle* if needed to confirm product authenticity, and *post cycle to access PCT successfulness.* If you know your products authenticity or are not pcting you can skip this test most of the time since youll be unnaturally elevated anyway. The cheaper version (just Testosterone; Total) can be used if all you are concerned about is product authenticity.
*Cortisol* - Self explanatory. tests cortisol levels. Medium cost. Not that necessary of a test in general but I like including it for *baselines, and once a year*.
*Estradiol *- Serum Estrogen Test. Medium Cost. Should be included in *baseline, and mid cycle* to access aromatization rate and to dial in AI dosage (if needed)
*FSH/LH *- Follicle stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone test. Medium Cost. Should be included in baseline and Post Cycle to access PCT effectiveness. These are the primary markers we try to bring back to baseline by PCTing, these are the markers that are reduced when we refer to being "shut down" or "suppressed" and are the important markers to indicate natural testosterone production. Not needed for those that B/C or TRT as the result will be undetectable for most people.
*Prolactin* - Prolactin Serum Test. Medium Cost. Female hormone that may have some impact on gynoclemastia in conjunction with estradiol, should be included in *baseline*. 19--Nors can elevate this marker for some people, and should be checked either* mid or post cycle if using 19 nors*.
*Hepatic Function Panel *- Liver Function test. Cheap. Some overlap with CMP with some more detailed markers tested.* Should always be included.*


*I Have X Marker Come Back High/Low, What Does This Mean?*


High Urea nitrogen(bun)/Creatinine/EGFR
Could indicate kidney damage/failure however gets elevated from intense training. If highly elevated, take some time off from training and retest. slightly elevated creatinine is generally not something to be overly concerned about

Albumin/Globulin low/high
Indicates protein levels in your blood. Low could be from dietary issues (not enough protein) or from liver/kidney issues. High is typically an indicator of dehydration, and that your water intake is not sufficient. 

AST/ALT
Liver stress markers. Commonly elevated from oral use. Some elevation is expected with oral use and can be minimized/limited with NAC/Tudca supplementation. Excessive elevation indicates severe liver stress and all orals should be ceased and you should retest the following month.

Estradiol
Estrogen Level Marker. Commonly elevated when on cycle due to aromatization, everyone aromatizes at a different rate and everyone has a different tolerance to high estrogen levels. Overly elevated levels indicates your test dose is too high or your AI dose is too low and can cause the typical side effects associated with steroid use. (acne, blood preasure, oily skin, gyno, ect) Estrogen is necessary for regular bodily function and low estrogen will make you feel like shit, if your estrogen comes back well bellow the reference range than your AI dose is far too high.

CRP
Systemic inflammation indicator. If this marker is elevated it means something is causing general inflammation in your body. This could indicate infection or that your body doesnt particularly like/is mildly allergic to the particular carrier oil your products are in.

Prolactin
High prolactin can potentially cause high estrogen-like symptoms and gyno, as well as cause a myriad of sexual function issues, what is called "Deca Dick" is likely caused by elevated prolactin most of the time. This marker is commonly elevated due to 19-nor use and can be managed with over the counter supplements like P5P or with medication like cabergoline.

Lipids (Cholesterol/HDL/LDL
These markers are routinely thrown out of whack from steroid use, in a dose specific manner. HDL is commonly referred to as "Good cholesterol", LDL is commonly referred to as "Bad Cholesterol". PCT and cruise periods are important to give your body a break and let these levels normalize. These markers can be mitigated through diet and supplementation of healthy fats like fish oil. Extended periods of time with these markers out of whack can lead to heart disease and other serious issues, if these markers are still poor at pre-cycle bloodwork, then you should not proceed with your cycle until you are in better health.



This is of course, not a complete list of all issues that can be discovered in bloodwork, but outlines the most common ones. This should not be taken as medical advice, if you are having issues please seek the treatment and advice of a medical professional, this information is for educational purposes only.


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## Stickler

Awesome


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## iGone

Great post Tom!


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## CJ

TomJ said:


> Hey everyone, after a conversation in the shoutbox I checked the forum and couldnt find a comprehensive guide to bloodwork, so im deciding to write my own so that there is something to easily reference people to when they have questions regarding ordering, getting, or interpreting bloodwork.
> 
> There are certainly gaps in my knowledge when it comes to bloodwork interpretation on more niche cases and I am hoping that others will add their knowledge to this thread or correct me if I write something incorrect, I will edit the post to include as much of that info as i can.
> 
> 
> *Why do we get bloodwork?*
> We, as recreational PED users, should be getting bloodwork regularly to monitor our health and specific markers to ensure we are being as responsible and minimizing our health risks.
> Specifically *pre cycle bloodwork* is used for a reference baseline, to compare to later, as well as to ensure there that you are in good enough health such that a cycle does not pose any unnecessary risk to you.
> 
> *Mid cycle bloodwork* is used to confirm that your testosterone is authentic, check your aromatization rate and estradiol to dial in AI dosage, and to confirm that your health markers are still in good order to continue your blast/cycle.
> 
> *post cycle bloodwork* is used to assess the success of your PCT protocol (if you are not on TRT or blasting and cruising), check the damage/stress done from your cycle, and to see how well you tolerated your cycle in its totality.
> 
> 
> *When do we get bloodwork?*
> There are four common times/periods that we commonly get bloodwork done. In short, we get bloodwork whenever we introduce changes to see how those changes have effected our health.
> Pre, Mid, Post, and Between cycles
> 
> *Pre Cycle *- This is done *immediately before beginning a cycle* to establish a baseline and to check that you are in good health before starting your cycle
> 
> *Mid Cycle* - Mid cycle bloodwork is done at some point during your cycle after serum levels have stabilized, generally speaking, *this is 4-5 weeks into your cycle for the most common medium/long esters* (cypionate, enanthate, decanoate ect). For those who are unsure how they aromatize (the process of converting testosterone to estrogen) this bloodwork is used to see how well a particular dose of testosterone is tolerated and if and what dose of an AI is needed for that individual (this is HIGHLY individual, and without this bloodwork it is impossible to dial in an AI dosage accurately). For those that are unsure of the authenticity of their Test product this bloodwork can also be used to show if the product is real or not and will give you a good idea if it is under dosed or not for most people.
> 
> *Post Cycle* - Regardless if an individual cruises/trt or pcts, post cycle bloodwork is arguably the most important, in conjunction to baseline precycle bloodwork. *This bloodwork is done after completing your PCT protocol, or after your serum levels have returned to normal TRT/Cruise levels. *This is to check lipids, liver stress, blood markers, ect to see how damaging/stressful your cycle has been.
> 
> *Between Cycles *- This bloodwork is generally excessive, most people skip this, but is still important for those that want to be sure about their health or those that had concerning results from their post cycle bloodwork. *This set of bloodwork is done generally 2-3 months after post cycle bloods if doing a longer downtime between cycles. *The purpose of this set is to access recovery of certain markers, this is somewhat redundant with precycle bloodwork for those that are doing shorter downtimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *How/Where Do We Get Bloodwork*
> Some people can get limited bloodwork ordered through their doctor, but most individuals prefer to order their tests privately.
> These are two of the common websites to order tests through
> 
> https://www.jasonhealth.com/ (my personal preference)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hormone Testing Blood Work For Men & Women Near You. Blood Test by Private MD Labs
> 
> 
> Order lab tests in 1 minute online without a doctor's visit with Private MD Labs. Take your test at a private lab the same day! Browse 1000’s of blood tests today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.privatemdlabs.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply select your location, select the tests you want, pay for them, and then you will be emailed a requisition that you can print out and bring to a testing facility near you as if you got it straight from your doctor.
> 
> 
> *What Do I Get Tested?*
> I use jasonhealth, so I will use their test names and terminology for this section, privatemdlabs offers much of the same testing, but bundles them differently under some different names.
> 
> *All Relevant Tests/Terminology*
> 
> *CMP *- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. Cheap test to get most basic health markers checked. S*hould always be included* since its so cheap and covers a wide array of markers
> *CBC* - Comprehensive Blood Panel. Another dirt cheap test for detailed blood markers such as WBC and hematocrit. *Should always be included*
> *Lipids - *checks cholesterol levels. Cheap. *Should always be included*
> *TSH *- Basic thyroid test. cheap. *Should be done intermittently* (I include this every other set of bloodwork, again, its cheap)
> *CRP *- C-Reactive Protein. Medium cost. Inflammation test/marker. *Should be done pre-cycle for your first baseline, then intermittently*. (I include this in every other set of bloodwork)
> *PSA* - Prostate test. medium cost. Should be done once a year, at initial baseline, and post cycle if using 19-nors (tren, nandrolone, ect)
> *Testosterone - *self explanatory, serum testosterone test. Pricy cost. Should be done during i*nitial baseline,* *mid cycle* if needed to confirm product authenticity, and *post cycle to access PCT successfulness.* If you know your products authenticity or are not pcting you can skip this test most of the time since youll be unnaturally elevated anyway. The cheaper version (just Testosterone; Total) can be used if all you are concerned about is product authenticity.
> *Cortisol* - Self explanatory. tests cortisol levels. Medium cost. Not that necessary of a test in general but I like including it for *baselines, and once a year*.
> *Estradiol *- Serum Estrogen Test. Medium Cost. Should be included in *baseline, and mid cycle* to access aromatization rate and to dial in AI dosage (if needed)
> *FSH/LH *- Follicle stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone test. Medium Cost. Should be included in baseline and Post Cycle to access PCT effectiveness. These are the primary markers we try to bring back to baseline by PCTing, these are the markers that are reduced when we refer to being "shut down" or "suppressed" and are the important markers to indicate natural testosterone production. Not needed for those that B/C or TRT as the result will be undetectable for most people.
> *Prolactin* - Prolactin Serum Test. Medium Cost. Female hormone that may have some impact on gynoclemastia in conjunction with estradiol, should be included in *baseline*. 19--Nors can elevate this marker for some people, and should be checked either* mid or post cycle if using 19 nors*.
> *Hepatic Function Panel *- Liver Function test. Cheap. Some overlap with CMP with some more detailed markers tested.* Should always be included.*
> 
> 
> *I Have X Marker Come Back High/Low, What Does This Mean?*
> 
> 
> High Urea nitrogen(bun)/Creatinine/EGFR
> Could indicate kidney damage/failure however gets elevated from intense training. If highly elevated, take some time off from training and retest. slightly elevated creatinine is generally not something to be overly concerned about
> 
> Albumin/Globulin low/high
> Indicates protein levels in your blood. Low could be from dietary issues (not enough protein) or from liver/kidney issues. High is typically an indicator of dehydration, and that your water intake is not sufficient.
> 
> AST/ALT
> Liver stress markers. Commonly elevated from oral use. Some elevation is expected with oral use and can be minimized/limited with NAC/Tudca supplementation. Excessive elevation indicates severe liver stress and all orals should be ceased and you should retest the following month.
> 
> Estradiol
> Estrogen Level Marker. Commonly elevated when on cycle due to aromatization, everyone aromatizes at a different rate and everyone has a different tolerance to high estrogen levels. Overly elevated levels indicates your test dose is too high or your AI dose is too low and can cause the typical side effects associated with steroid use. (acne, blood preasure, oily skin, gyno, ect) Estrogen is necessary for regular bodily function and low estrogen will make you feel like shit, if your estrogen comes back well bellow the reference range than your AI dose is far too high.
> 
> CRP
> Systemic inflammation indicator. If this marker is elevated it means something is causing general inflammation in your body. This could indicate infection or that your body doesnt particularly like/is mildly allergic to the particular carrier oil your products are in.
> 
> Prolactin
> High prolactin can potentially cause high estrogen-like symptoms and gyno, as well as cause a myriad of sexual function issues, what is called "Deca Dick" is likely caused by elevated prolactin most of the time. This marker is commonly elevated due to 19-nor use and can be managed with over the counter supplements like P5P or with medication like cabergoline.
> 
> Lipids (Cholesterol/HDL/LDL
> These markers are routinely thrown out of whack from steroid use, in a dose specific manner. HDL is commonly referred to as "Good cholesterol", LDL is commonly referred to as "Bad Cholesterol". PCT and cruise periods are important to give your body a break and let these levels normalize. These markers can be mitigated through diet and supplementation of healthy fats like fish oil. Extended periods of time with these markers out of whack can lead to heart disease and other serious issues, if these markers are still poor at pre-cycle bloodwork, then you should not proceed with your cycle until you are in better health.
> 
> 
> 
> This is of course, not a complete list of all issues that can be discovered in bloodwork, but outlines the most common ones. This should not be taken as medical advice, if you are having issues please seek the treatment and advice of a medical professional, this information is for educational purposes only.


I Stickied this. 

If there's anything you need added in or edited ever, let me know.


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## TomJ

CJ said:


> I Stickied this.
> 
> If there's anything you need added in or edited ever, let me know.


oh sweet! thats perfect! Thanks CJ. 
If more knowledgeable members have comments on other markers or information I will for sure edit to add that in.


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## Yano

This is fucking great man !!


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## Send0

I have lots I could add, but I won't. In my experience the majority of people are just intelligent enough to look at bio markers in isolation. Sometimes this works out, but really values need to be reviewed in relation to each other to confirm if further testing is required, or if anything is even actually wrong.

Case in point; you mention AST/ALT without also referencing bilirubin. I would argue that bilirubin is the more critical bio-marker, but that they should all be looked at together. Even things like ALP, and even the ratio of albumin to bilirubin may need to be considered when evaluating liver health. Again, this is just one example.

So personally I choose to hold back info in this area. Not because I'm trying to horse information, but rather because I'd rather people come ask us for input, or even better to ask their doctor, as opposed to finding a guide that gives them just enough info to hang themselves with.

I think this is a good general guide, but I hesitate to add more to it outside the basics you already listed.


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## TomJ

Send0 said:


> I have lots I could add, but I won't. In my experience the majority of people are just intelligent enough to look at bio markers in isolation. Sometimes this works out, but really values need to be reviewed in relation to each other to confirm if further testing is required, or if anything is even actually wrong.
> 
> Case in point; you mention AST/ALT without also referencing bilirubin. I would argue that bilirubin is the more critical bio-marker, but that they should all be looked at together. Even things like ALP, and even the ratio of albumin to bilirubin may need to be considered when evaluating liver health. Again, this is just one example.
> 
> So personally I choose to hold back info in this area. Not because I'm trying to horse information, but rather because I'd rather people come ask us for input, or even better to ask their doctor, as opposed to finding a guide that gives them just enough info to hang themselves with.
> 
> I think this is a good general guide, but I hesitate to add more to it outside the basics you already listed.


This is exactly the responses i was hoping to get. 

Yeah there were some more niche and complicated cases like you mentioned that came to mind, but since its intended as a general guide to quickly reference to people i just wanted to cover the basics and what i thought were the common things we see come up from time to time. 

I was thinking "Bloodwork FAQ" when i was writing the "what does this mean" section. 

I was hoping for the write up to be easily digestible to a newer user to get them thinking and recognizing things on their bloodwork and wanted posts like yours here if they wanted to do further reading in the comments.


----------



## Send0

TomJ said:


> This is exactly the responses i was hoping to get.
> 
> Yeah there were some more niche and complicated cases like you mentioned that came to mind, but since its intended as a general guide to quickly reference to people i just wanted to cover the basics and what i thought were the common things we see come up from time to time.
> 
> I was thinking "Bloodwork FAQ" when i was writing the "what does this mean" section.
> 
> I was hoping for the write up to be easily digestible to a newer user to get them thinking and recognizing things on their bloodwork and wanted posts like yours here if they wanted to do further reading in the comments.


I think this is great for new users getting into this. Definitely worth being stickied. It will cut a lot of the questions that get asked repeatedly.


----------



## TomJ

Send0 said:


> I think this is great for new users getting into this. Definitely worth being stickied. It will cut a lot of the questions that get asked repeatedly.


Ive also noticed and gotten the impression that some people dont get bloodwork done because they dont understand or dont know what they are doing, where to go, or what to order. 

Hopefully this post makes the process a bit less intimidating for those that dont want to do a ton of research and will actually start getting their bloodwork done when they realize how affordable and easy it is. 

I mean to get most of the non hormonal health markers checked is like 40$


----------



## Send0

TomJ said:


> Ive also noticed and gotten the impression that some people dont get bloodwork done because they dont understand or dont know what they are doing, where to go, or what to order.
> 
> Hopefully this post makes the process a bit less intimidating for those that dont want to do a ton of research and will actually start getting their bloodwork done when they realize how affordable and easy it is.
> 
> I mean to get most of the non hormonal health markers checked is like 40$


Honestly I think most people don't get bloodwork because they are trying to cut costs, and because they ordered and received their gear first... and are too impatient to do what's right.

We see it all the time.. "oh, I wanted to start my cycle right away. So I didn't have time to get baseline bloodwork".

Prime example; Valdosta still has not gotten bloodwork this entire time. I get the impression he still doesn't feel it's that important.


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## CJ

Get your bloodwork done people. Even if you don't understand it, post it here, someone will be able to help. Even if it's just the comment to "go see a Dr", it's invaluable information. 

This can save your life, or at least avoid some major problems.


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## CJ

Oh, and get a home blood pressure monitor too you cheap fukkers!!!


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## TomJ

CJ said:


> Oh, and get a home blood pressure monitor too you cheap fukkers!!!


Mine is practically worthless, I have a wrist style because the one I was using with the cuff doesn't make a cuff for anything bigger than 17" arms. 

Both give me wildly inaccurate systolicreadings 

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Send0

TomJ said:


> Mine is practically worthless, I have a wrist style because the one I was using with the cuff doesn't make a cuff for anything bigger than 17" arms.
> 
> Both give me wildly inaccurate systolicreadings
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


Free readings at the grocery store... Not sure what size cuff those will handle.


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## TomJ

Send0 said:


> Free readings at the grocery store... Not sure what size cuff those will handle.


That's a good point, rite aid down the street probably has one of those gadgets

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Butch_C

Good post @TomJ  . I am just going to add another online place to order bloodwork from. privatemdlabs.com and if you search for a coupon code, you can normally find a 10-20% discount code. I know there are a few states that do not allow this but most do.


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## TomJ

Butch_C said:


> Good post @TomJ . I am just going to add another online place to order bloodwork from. privatemdlabs.com and if you search for a coupon code, you can normally find a 10-20% discount code. I know there are a few states that do not allow this but most do.


Privatemdlabs is included already

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Achillesking

This is  nice tom good work


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## TiredandHot

Wanted to throw out there Ulta Labs has competitive pricing, in addition to coupon codes as well. I used privatemd until a guy give me the below link. I used this last month and they offered closer to home locations for blood draw too. Worth comparing the two.



		Code:
	

https://www.ultalabtests.com/test/biote-male-post-pellet/[CODE]


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## TomJ

TiredandHot said:


> Wanted to throw out there Ulta Labs has competitive pricing, in addition to coupon codes as well. I used privatemd until a guy give me the below link. I used this last month and they offered closer to home locations for blood draw too. Worth comparing the two.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> https://www.ultalabtests.com/test/biote-male-post-pellet/[CODE]


That is a good price for those tests

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## SpanishFly

Thanks for this write up. I have my labs sitting on my other monitor and i'm referencing your post. I would like to add that for those in Hawaii, I simply could not find a place that we can just get blood work done. In the end, I had to pay a HRT company who set me up with a lab that mails a kit you take to the clinic, and they ship it off to the lab. The panel prescribed by my HRT doc did not include all of the suggested tests listed in OP's post. So if you're in HI and struggling to find a lab like I did, I can give you the place I used. OR if you know of a lab here, I would really like to hear about it.  Thanks again for the write up.


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## Oldbastard

TomJ said:


> Hey everyone, after a conversation in the shoutbox I checked the forum and couldnt find a comprehensive guide to bloodwork, so im deciding to write my own so that there is something to easily reference people to when they have questions regarding ordering, getting, or interpreting bloodwork.
> 
> There are certainly gaps in my knowledge when it comes to bloodwork interpretation on more niche cases and I am hoping that others will add their knowledge to this thread or correct me if I write something incorrect, I will edit the post to include as much of that info as i can.
> 
> 
> *Why do we get bloodwork?*
> We, as recreational PED users, should be getting bloodwork regularly to monitor our health and specific markers to ensure we are being as responsible and minimizing our health risks.
> Specifically *pre cycle bloodwork* is used for a reference baseline, to compare to later, as well as to ensure there that you are in good enough health such that a cycle does not pose any unnecessary risk to you.
> 
> *Mid cycle bloodwork* is used to confirm that your testosterone is authentic, check your aromatization rate and estradiol to dial in AI dosage, and to confirm that your health markers are still in good order to continue your blast/cycle.
> 
> *post cycle bloodwork* is used to assess the success of your PCT protocol (if you are not on TRT or blasting and cruising), check the damage/stress done from your cycle, and to see how well you tolerated your cycle in its totality.
> 
> 
> *When do we get bloodwork?*
> There are four common times/periods that we commonly get bloodwork done. In short, we get bloodwork whenever we introduce changes to see how those changes have effected our health.
> Pre, Mid, Post, and Between cycles
> 
> *Pre Cycle *- This is done *immediately before beginning a cycle* to establish a baseline and to check that you are in good health before starting your cycle
> 
> *Mid Cycle* - Mid cycle bloodwork is done at some point during your cycle after serum levels have stabilized, generally speaking, *this is 4-5 weeks into your cycle for the most common medium/long esters* (cypionate, enanthate, decanoate ect). For those who are unsure how they aromatize (the process of converting testosterone to estrogen) this bloodwork is used to see how well a particular dose of testosterone is tolerated and if and what dose of an AI is needed for that individual (this is HIGHLY individual, and without this bloodwork it is impossible to dial in an AI dosage accurately). For those that are unsure of the authenticity of their Test product this bloodwork can also be used to show if the product is real or not and will give you a good idea if it is under dosed or not for most people.
> 
> *Post Cycle* - Regardless if an individual cruises/trt or pcts, post cycle bloodwork is arguably the most important, in conjunction to baseline precycle bloodwork. *This bloodwork is done after completing your PCT protocol, or after your serum levels have returned to normal TRT/Cruise levels. *This is to check lipids, liver stress, blood markers, ect to see how damaging/stressful your cycle has been.
> 
> *Between Cycles *- This bloodwork is generally excessive, most people skip this, but is still important for those that want to be sure about their health or those that had concerning results from their post cycle bloodwork. *This set of bloodwork is done generally 2-3 months after post cycle bloods if doing a longer downtime between cycles. *The purpose of this set is to access recovery of certain markers, this is somewhat redundant with precycle bloodwork for those that are doing shorter downtimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *How/Where Do We Get Bloodwork*
> Some people can get limited bloodwork ordered through their doctor, but most individuals prefer to order their tests privately.
> These are two of the common websites to order tests through
> 
> https://www.jasonhealth.com/ (my personal preference)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hormone Testing Blood Work For Men & Women Near You. Blood Test by Private MD Labs
> 
> 
> Order lab tests in 1 minute online without a doctor's visit with Private MD Labs. Take your test at a private lab the same day! Browse 1000’s of blood tests today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.privatemdlabs.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply select your location, select the tests you want, pay for them, and then you will be emailed a requisition that you can print out and bring to a testing facility near you as if you got it straight from your doctor.
> 
> 
> *What Do I Get Tested?*
> I use jasonhealth, so I will use their test names and terminology for this section, privatemdlabs offers much of the same testing, but bundles them differently under some different names.
> 
> *All Relevant Tests/Terminology*
> 
> *CMP *- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. Cheap test to get most basic health markers checked. S*hould always be included* since its so cheap and covers a wide array of markers
> *CBC* - Comprehensive Blood Panel. Another dirt cheap test for detailed blood markers such as WBC and hematocrit. *Should always be included*
> *Lipids - *checks cholesterol levels. Cheap. *Should always be included*
> *TSH *- Basic thyroid test. cheap. *Should be done intermittently* (I include this every other set of bloodwork, again, its cheap)
> *CRP *- C-Reactive Protein. Medium cost. Inflammation test/marker. *Should be done pre-cycle for your first baseline, then intermittently*. (I include this in every other set of bloodwork)
> *PSA* - Prostate test. medium cost. Should be done once a year, at initial baseline, and post cycle if using 19-nors (tren, nandrolone, ect)
> *Testosterone - *self explanatory, serum testosterone test. Pricy cost. Should be done during i*nitial baseline,* *mid cycle* if needed to confirm product authenticity, and *post cycle to access PCT successfulness.* If you know your products authenticity or are not pcting you can skip this test most of the time since youll be unnaturally elevated anyway. The cheaper version (just Testosterone; Total) can be used if all you are concerned about is product authenticity.
> *Cortisol* - Self explanatory. tests cortisol levels. Medium cost. Not that necessary of a test in general but I like including it for *baselines, and once a year*.
> *Estradiol *- Serum Estrogen Test. Medium Cost. Should be included in *baseline, and mid cycle* to access aromatization rate and to dial in AI dosage (if needed)
> *FSH/LH *- Follicle stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone test. Medium Cost. Should be included in baseline and Post Cycle to access PCT effectiveness. These are the primary markers we try to bring back to baseline by PCTing, these are the markers that are reduced when we refer to being "shut down" or "suppressed" and are the important markers to indicate natural testosterone production. Not needed for those that B/C or TRT as the result will be undetectable for most people.
> *Prolactin* - Prolactin Serum Test. Medium Cost. Female hormone that may have some impact on gynoclemastia in conjunction with estradiol, should be included in *baseline*. 19--Nors can elevate this marker for some people, and should be checked either* mid or post cycle if using 19 nors*.
> *Hepatic Function Panel *- Liver Function test. Cheap. Some overlap with CMP with some more detailed markers tested.* Should always be included.*
> 
> 
> *I Have X Marker Come Back High/Low, What Does This Mean?*
> 
> 
> High Urea nitrogen(bun)/Creatinine/EGFR
> Could indicate kidney damage/failure however gets elevated from intense training. If highly elevated, take some time off from training and retest. slightly elevated creatinine is generally not something to be overly concerned about
> 
> Albumin/Globulin low/high
> Indicates protein levels in your blood. Low could be from dietary issues (not enough protein) or from liver/kidney issues. High is typically an indicator of dehydration, and that your water intake is not sufficient.
> 
> AST/ALT
> Liver stress markers. Commonly elevated from oral use. Some elevation is expected with oral use and can be minimized/limited with NAC/Tudca supplementation. Excessive elevation indicates severe liver stress and all orals should be ceased and you should retest the following month.
> 
> Estradiol
> Estrogen Level Marker. Commonly elevated when on cycle due to aromatization, everyone aromatizes at a different rate and everyone has a different tolerance to high estrogen levels. Overly elevated levels indicates your test dose is too high or your AI dose is too low and can cause the typical side effects associated with steroid use. (acne, blood preasure, oily skin, gyno, ect) Estrogen is necessary for regular bodily function and low estrogen will make you feel like shit, if your estrogen comes back well bellow the reference range than your AI dose is far too high.
> 
> CRP
> Systemic inflammation indicator. If this marker is elevated it means something is causing general inflammation in your body. This could indicate infection or that your body doesnt particularly like/is mildly allergic to the particular carrier oil your products are in.
> 
> Prolactin
> High prolactin can potentially cause high estrogen-like symptoms and gyno, as well as cause a myriad of sexual function issues, what is called "Deca Dick" is likely caused by elevated prolactin most of the time. This marker is commonly elevated due to 19-nor use and can be managed with over the counter supplements like P5P or with medication like cabergoline.
> 
> Lipids (Cholesterol/HDL/LDL
> These markers are routinely thrown out of whack from steroid use, in a dose specific manner. HDL is commonly referred to as "Good cholesterol", LDL is commonly referred to as "Bad Cholesterol". PCT and cruise periods are important to give your body a break and let these levels normalize. These markers can be mitigated through diet and supplementation of healthy fats like fish oil. Extended periods of time with these markers out of whack can lead to heart disease and other serious issues, if these markers are still poor at pre-cycle bloodwork, then you should not proceed with your cycle until you are in better health.
> 
> 
> 
> This is of course, not a complete list of all issues that can be discovered in bloodwork, but outlines the most common ones. This should not be taken as medical advice, if you are having issues please seek the treatment and advice of a medical professional, this information is for educational purposes only.


Big bump! Bloodwork is the serious bodybuilders friend . Do it regularly. Not only can it correlate too your recovery , energy etc but in some cases keep you alive . Especially older guys like myself. You can impede your progress by not paying attention too how all you do effects your cbc ! While having high red blood cell count can help training. Over time you can develop polychema Vera . You can be prone genetically or like Myself I developed from years of using certain chemicals. Fortunately, I am able too overcome by simply donating my blood every three months . Where my RBC goes down too proper levels plus many of us old bastards used liver tablets on top of my love of red meat . You can develop dangerous Levels of iron. ( hemocrits ) I now opt for amino capsules over dessicated liver tabs and I take multiple vitamins without iron . May seem unimportant. However trust me . If you plan on training and living healthy forever . Labs are important. Only a healthy body can progress . I eat clean . Always have . I do use various supplements and chemicals. Too recover and train . To me I'm not cheating . I don't go overboard . I train and I use just enough of whatever I need too recover. More has never been better in my mind . Always tread carefully. You won't be young forever. Train for health now and when you get older , Your peers and family will all be jealous with envy of you . Bodybuilding even with chemicals can be the closest thing too a fountain of youth. A healthy body is a strong body . Too be strong have energy feels good no ?? Carry on ! Only you know you !


----------



## Oldbastard

TomJ said:


> Hey everyone, after a conversation in the shoutbox I checked the forum and couldnt find a comprehensive guide to bloodwork, so im deciding to write my own so that there is something to easily reference people to when they have questions regarding ordering, getting, or interpreting bloodwork.
> 
> There are certainly gaps in my knowledge when it comes to bloodwork interpretation on more niche cases and I am hoping that others will add their knowledge to this thread or correct me if I write something incorrect, I will edit the post to include as much of that info as i can.
> 
> 
> *Why do we get bloodwork?*
> We, as recreational PED users, should be getting bloodwork regularly to monitor our health and specific markers to ensure we are being as responsible and minimizing our health risks.
> Specifically *pre cycle bloodwork* is used for a reference baseline, to compare to later, as well as to ensure there that you are in good enough health such that a cycle does not pose any unnecessary risk to you.
> 
> *Mid cycle bloodwork* is used to confirm that your testosterone is authentic, check your aromatization rate and estradiol to dial in AI dosage, and to confirm that your health markers are still in good order to continue your blast/cycle.
> 
> *post cycle bloodwork* is used to assess the success of your PCT protocol (if you are not on TRT or blasting and cruising), check the damage/stress done from your cycle, and to see how well you tolerated your cycle in its totality.
> 
> 
> *When do we get bloodwork?*
> There are four common times/periods that we commonly get bloodwork done. In short, we get bloodwork whenever we introduce changes to see how those changes have effected our health.
> Pre, Mid, Post, and Between cycles
> 
> *Pre Cycle *- This is done *immediately before beginning a cycle* to establish a baseline and to check that you are in good health before starting your cycle
> 
> *Mid Cycle* - Mid cycle bloodwork is done at some point during your cycle after serum levels have stabilized, generally speaking, *this is 4-5 weeks into your cycle for the most common medium/long esters* (cypionate, enanthate, decanoate ect). For those who are unsure how they aromatize (the process of converting testosterone to estrogen) this bloodwork is used to see how well a particular dose of testosterone is tolerated and if and what dose of an AI is needed for that individual (this is HIGHLY individual, and without this bloodwork it is impossible to dial in an AI dosage accurately). For those that are unsure of the authenticity of their Test product this bloodwork can also be used to show if the product is real or not and will give you a good idea if it is under dosed or not for most people.
> 
> *Post Cycle* - Regardless if an individual cruises/trt or pcts, post cycle bloodwork is arguably the most important, in conjunction to baseline precycle bloodwork. *This bloodwork is done after completing your PCT protocol, or after your serum levels have returned to normal TRT/Cruise levels. *This is to check lipids, liver stress, blood markers, ect to see how damaging/stressful your cycle has been.
> 
> *Between Cycles *- This bloodwork is generally excessive, most people skip this, but is still important for those that want to be sure about their health or those that had concerning results from their post cycle bloodwork. *This set of bloodwork is done generally 2-3 months after post cycle bloods if doing a longer downtime between cycles. *The purpose of this set is to access recovery of certain markers, this is somewhat redundant with precycle bloodwork for those that are doing shorter downtimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *How/Where Do We Get Bloodwork*
> Some people can get limited bloodwork ordered through their doctor, but most individuals prefer to order their tests privately.
> These are two of the common websites to order tests through
> 
> https://www.jasonhealth.com/ (my personal preference)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hormone Testing Blood Work For Men & Women Near You. Blood Test by Private MD Labs
> 
> 
> Order lab tests in 1 minute online without a doctor's visit with Private MD Labs. Take your test at a private lab the same day! Browse 1000’s of blood tests today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.privatemdlabs.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply select your location, select the tests you want, pay for them, and then you will be emailed a requisition that you can print out and bring to a testing facility near you as if you got it straight from your doctor.
> 
> 
> *What Do I Get Tested?*
> I use jasonhealth, so I will use their test names and terminology for this section, privatemdlabs offers much of the same testing, but bundles them differently under some different names.
> 
> *All Relevant Tests/Terminology*
> 
> *CMP *- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. Cheap test to get most basic health markers checked. S*hould always be included* since its so cheap and covers a wide array of markers
> *CBC* - Comprehensive Blood Panel. Another dirt cheap test for detailed blood markers such as WBC and hematocrit. *Should always be included*
> *Lipids - *checks cholesterol levels. Cheap. *Should always be included*
> *TSH *- Basic thyroid test. cheap. *Should be done intermittently* (I include this every other set of bloodwork, again, its cheap)
> *CRP *- C-Reactive Protein. Medium cost. Inflammation test/marker. *Should be done pre-cycle for your first baseline, then intermittently*. (I include this in every other set of bloodwork)
> *PSA* - Prostate test. medium cost. Should be done once a year, at initial baseline, and post cycle if using 19-nors (tren, nandrolone, ect)
> *Testosterone - *self explanatory, serum testosterone test. Pricy cost. Should be done during i*nitial baseline,* *mid cycle* if needed to confirm product authenticity, and *post cycle to access PCT successfulness.* If you know your products authenticity or are not pcting you can skip this test most of the time since youll be unnaturally elevated anyway. The cheaper version (just Testosterone; Total) can be used if all you are concerned about is product authenticity.
> *Cortisol* - Self explanatory. tests cortisol levels. Medium cost. Not that necessary of a test in general but I like including it for *baselines, and once a year*.
> *Estradiol *- Serum Estrogen Test. Medium Cost. Should be included in *baseline, and mid cycle* to access aromatization rate and to dial in AI dosage (if needed)
> *FSH/LH *- Follicle stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone test. Medium Cost. Should be included in baseline and Post Cycle to access PCT effectiveness. These are the primary markers we try to bring back to baseline by PCTing, these are the markers that are reduced when we refer to being "shut down" or "suppressed" and are the important markers to indicate natural testosterone production. Not needed for those that B/C or TRT as the result will be undetectable for most people.
> *Prolactin* - Prolactin Serum Test. Medium Cost. Female hormone that may have some impact on gynoclemastia in conjunction with estradiol, should be included in *baseline*. 19--Nors can elevate this marker for some people, and should be checked either* mid or post cycle if using 19 nors*.
> *Hepatic Function Panel *- Liver Function test. Cheap. Some overlap with CMP with some more detailed markers tested.* Should always be included.*
> 
> 
> *I Have X Marker Come Back High/Low, What Does This Mean?*
> 
> 
> High Urea nitrogen(bun)/Creatinine/EGFR
> Could indicate kidney damage/failure however gets elevated from intense training. If highly elevated, take some time off from training and retest. slightly elevated creatinine is generally not something to be overly concerned about
> 
> Albumin/Globulin low/high
> Indicates protein levels in your blood. Low could be from dietary issues (not enough protein) or from liver/kidney issues. High is typically an indicator of dehydration, and that your water intake is not sufficient.
> 
> AST/ALT
> Liver stress markers. Commonly elevated from oral use. Some elevation is expected with oral use and can be minimized/limited with NAC/Tudca supplementation. Excessive elevation indicates severe liver stress and all orals should be ceased and you should retest the following month.
> 
> Estradiol
> Estrogen Level Marker. Commonly elevated when on cycle due to aromatization, everyone aromatizes at a different rate and everyone has a different tolerance to high estrogen levels. Overly elevated levels indicates your test dose is too high or your AI dose is too low and can cause the typical side effects associated with steroid use. (acne, blood preasure, oily skin, gyno, ect) Estrogen is necessary for regular bodily function and low estrogen will make you feel like shit, if your estrogen comes back well bellow the reference range than your AI dose is far too high.
> 
> CRP
> Systemic inflammation indicator. If this marker is elevated it means something is causing general inflammation in your body. This could indicate infection or that your body doesnt particularly like/is mildly allergic to the particular carrier oil your products are in.
> 
> Prolactin
> High prolactin can potentially cause high estrogen-like symptoms and gyno, as well as cause a myriad of sexual function issues, what is called "Deca Dick" is likely caused by elevated prolactin most of the time. This marker is commonly elevated due to 19-nor use and can be managed with over the counter supplements like P5P or with medication like cabergoline.
> 
> Lipids (Cholesterol/HDL/LDL
> These markers are routinely thrown out of whack from steroid use, in a dose specific manner. HDL is commonly referred to as "Good cholesterol", LDL is commonly referred to as "Bad Cholesterol". PCT and cruise periods are important to give your body a break and let these levels normalize. These markers can be mitigated through diet and supplementation of healthy fats like fish oil. Extended periods of time with these markers out of whack can lead to heart disease and other serious issues, if these markers are still poor at pre-cycle bloodwork, then you should not proceed with your cycle until you are in better health.
> 
> 
> 
> This is of course, not a complete list of all issues that can be discovered in bloodwork, but outlines the most common ones. This should not be taken as medical advice, if you are having issues please seek the treatment and advice of a medical professional, this information is for educational purposes only.





Oldbastard said:


> Big bump! Bloodwork is the serious bodybuilders friend . Do it regularly. Not only can it correlate too your recovery , energy etc but in some cases keep you alive . Especially older guys like myself. You can impede your progress by not paying attention too how all you do effects your cbc ! While having high red blood cell count can help training. Over time you can develop polychema Vera . You can be prone genetically or like Myself I developed from years of using certain chemicals. Fortunately, I am able too overcome by simply donating my blood every three months . Where my RBC goes down too proper levels plus many of us old bastards used liver tablets on top of my love of red meat . You can develop dangerous Levels of iron. ( hemocrits ) I now opt for amino capsules over dessicated liver tabs and I take multiple vitamins without iron . May seem unimportant. However trust me . If you plan on training and living healthy forever . Labs are important. Only a healthy body can progress . I eat clean . Always have . I do use various supplements and chemicals. Too recover and train . To me I'm not cheating . I don't go overboard . I train and I use just enough of whatever I need too recover. More has never been better in my mind . Always tread carefully. You won't be young forever. Train for health now and when you get older , Your peers and family will all be jealous with envy of you . Bodybuilding even with chemicals can be the closest thing too a fountain of youth. A healthy body is a strong body . Too be strong have energy feels good no ?? Carry on ! Only you know you !


TOM - thanks 🙏 for posting and all the effort in sharing . You are so right


----------



## mrgreens

Based on the post, I put together this cart of tests on Jason Health. This round of bloods will be my baseline numbers prior to first cycle.

Does this look right from a price/test selection standpoint?

I also messaged my PCP's office today to get some info about what kind of testing they can do for me/what would be covered under insurance.


----------



## TomJ

mrgreens said:


> Based on the post, I put together this cart of tests on Jason Health. This round of bloods will be my baseline numbers prior to first cycle.
> 
> Does this look right from a price/test selection standpoint?
> 
> I also messaged my PCP's office today to get some info about what kind of testing they can do for me/what would be covered under insurance.
> View attachment 24939


Looks good to me, what you have outlined is about as extensive as you can get and a lot can be trimmed out after you have it as a baseline. 

for example, there is very little reason to check prolactin unless youre using 19-nors, but if you plan on using in the future its really good to have that baseline.

If you are going the PCT/blast and cruise route you wont need to test FSH/LH afterwards. 

cortisol, psa, crp i only include every once in a while. so you can count on not having to shell out for those very often


----------



## mrgreens

TomJ said:


> Looks good to me, what you have outlined is about as extensive as you can get and a lot can be trimmed out after you have it as a baseline.
> 
> for example, there is very little reason to check prolactin unless youre using 19-nors, but if you plan on using in the future its really good to have that baseline.
> 
> If you are going the PCT/blast and cruise route you wont need to test FSH/LH afterwards.
> 
> cortisol, psa, crp i only include every once in a while. so you can count on not having to shell out for those very often


Okay so I can remove the FSH/LH from this initial baseline testing?

Also, as I mentioned -- I contacted my PCP about doing a hormone panel in addition to another round of bloodwork. Let me add the tests they ran here and see what I'd be missing.


----------



## mrgreens

So, the first time I went to my PCP, they ran CBC, CMP, and lipids. I understand these are your typical physical markers. Would save me $25 to just have them run these again at an appointment because I know they're covered.


----------



## TomJ

mrgreens said:


> Okay so I can remove the FSH/LH from this initial baseline testing?
> 
> Also, as I mentioned -- I contacted my PCP about doing a hormone panel in addition to another round of bloodwork. Let me add the tests they ran here and see what I'd be missing.


i think its still good to have them as a baseline in case you ever decide to come off trt or stop blasting and cruising. but if you are 100% commited to trt for life and dont have any plans for children then this marker is meaningless


----------



## TomJ

mrgreens said:


> So, the first time I went to my PCP, they ran CBC, CMP, and lipids. I understand these are your typical physical markers. Would save me $25 to just have them run these again at an appointment because I know they're covered.


if you aready have a baseline for these markers from your PCP then no point getting them again if youve nmade no changes


----------



## mrgreens

TomJ said:


> if you aready have a baseline for these markers from your PCP then no point getting them again if youve nmade no changes


The results I have are from 03/2022. I was also almost 20lbs heavier. I guess in that sense I feel like I have made changes, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to get them redone especially if there's no cost associated.

From what I'm gathering -- I'll wait to see what my PCP can offer for testing beyond basic markers, and if I choose to go with independent labs for everything else, keep the FSH/LH baseline test included. 

I see myself BnC honestly but would like to have kids later down the road.


----------



## TomJ

mrgreens said:


> The results I have are from 03/2022. I was also almost 20lbs heavier. I guess in that sense I feel like I have made changes, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to get them redone especially if there's no cost associated.
> 
> From what I'm gathering -- I'll wait to see what my PCP can offer for testing beyond basic markers, and if I choose to go with independent labs for everything else, keep the FSH/LH baseline test included.
> 
> I see myself BnC honestly but would like to have kids later down the road.


if you will want kids later getting your FSH and LH baselines will be valuable, itll allow you to reference back to see how well youve recovered if you come off to have children


----------



## mrgreens

TomJ said:


> if you will want kids later getting your FSH and LH baselines will be valuable, itll allow you to reference back to see how well youve recovered if you come off to have children


Got it. I appreciate all the input. I was really trying to make sure what I was seeing cost/selection wise wasn't too far off.

I'm so OCD I'll probably be back in this thread before I order the tests to make sure I'm getting exactly what I need haha. 

Next question -- I'm taking a trip to Europe August 29-Sep 7th. I'm waiting to start the cycle until after I return from the trip and will likely give myself about 2 weeks back in the gym before my first pin. 

Should I get the bloods done before or after the trip? I was leaning towards after so I can take as little time off training as possible. If I were to do them before, I'd have to take a couple days off the gym in the next couple weeks before I leave. Whereas if I get them done after, I will have been rested for over a week but don't want travel fucking with things either.


----------



## TomJ

mrgreens said:


> Got it. I appreciate all the input. I was really trying to make sure what I was seeing cost/selection wise wasn't too far off.
> 
> I'm so OCD I'll probably be back in this thread before I order the tests to make sure I'm getting exactly what I need haha.
> 
> Next question -- I'm taking a trip to Europe August 29-Sep 7th. I'm waiting to start the cycle until after I return from the trip and will likely give myself about 2 weeks back in the gym before my first pin.
> 
> Should I get the bloods done before or after the trip? I was leaning towards after so I can take as little time off training as possible. If I were to do them before, I'd have to take a couple days off the gym in the next couple weeks before I leave. Whereas if I get them done after, I will have been rested for over a week but don't want travel fucking with things either.


Id just get them done after, but really it doesnt matter much, do when convenient


----------



## mrgreens

TomJ said:


> Id just get them done after, but really it doesnt matter much, do when convenient


Got it. I'm also thinking getting all my gear in before I leave for the trip is going to be ideal as well.


----------



## TomJ

mrgreens said:


> Got it. I'm also thinking getting all my gear in before I leave for the trip is going to be ideal as well.


doesnt hurt to have everything you need ahead of time. Make sure you got everything in place before you start, including AI and nolva and such


----------



## mrgreens

TomJ said:


> doesnt hurt to have everything you need ahead of time. Make sure you got everything in place before you start, including AI and nolva and such


I may post in my journal or just make a thread separate from it EVERYTHING I'm ordering as a guide to everything you need to "buy it once and do it right" type thing


----------



## mrgreens

Another question that just occurred to me. Once I have these baseline numbers, should my lab orders look identical for mid-cycle and post-cycle?


----------



## Thebiggestdumbass

This might have been answered but for TRT is it better to draw blood right before a shot or right after?


----------



## TomJ

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> This might have been answered but for TRT is it better to draw blood right before a shot or right after?


probably right before, so you can see how low you get between shots. 

its just important to keep when the draw was done for comparison with other bloodwork results.


----------



## Wrekn

I’ve heard multiple times in the past that the “Hormone Panel for Females” is all you need for bloodwork. Is this correct? Newbie here and just wanting to make sure I get the proper tests before during and after my first cycle. Thanks.


----------



## TomJ

Wrekn said:


> I’ve heard multiple times in the past that the “Hormone Panel for Females” is all you need for bloodwork. Is this correct? Newbie here and just wanting to make sure I get the proper tests before during and after my first cycle. Thanks.


Generally that's fine

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


----------



## Wrekn

TomJ said:


> Generally that's fine
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


Thank you!


----------



## Mukbuk88

TomJ said:


> Hey everyone, after a conversation in the shoutbox I checked the forum and couldnt find a comprehensive guide to bloodwork, so im deciding to write my own so that there is something to easily reference people to when they have questions regarding ordering, getting, or interpreting bloodwork.
> 
> There are certainly gaps in my knowledge when it comes to bloodwork interpretation on more niche cases and I am hoping that others will add their knowledge to this thread or correct me if I write something incorrect, I will edit the post to include as much of that info as i can.
> 
> 
> *Why do we get bloodwork?*
> We, as recreational PED users, should be getting bloodwork regularly to monitor our health and specific markers to ensure we are being as responsible and minimizing our health risks.
> Specifically *pre cycle bloodwork* is used for a reference baseline, to compare to later, as well as to ensure there that you are in good enough health such that a cycle does not pose any unnecessary risk to you.
> 
> *Mid cycle bloodwork* is used to confirm that your testosterone is authentic, check your aromatization rate and estradiol to dial in AI dosage, and to confirm that your health markers are still in good order to continue your blast/cycle.
> 
> *post cycle bloodwork* is used to assess the success of your PCT protocol (if you are not on TRT or blasting and cruising), check the damage/stress done from your cycle, and to see how well you tolerated your cycle in its totality.
> 
> 
> *When do we get bloodwork?*
> There are four common times/periods that we commonly get bloodwork done. In short, we get bloodwork whenever we introduce changes to see how those changes have effected our health.
> Pre, Mid, Post, and Between cycles
> 
> *Pre Cycle *- This is done *immediately before beginning a cycle* to establish a baseline and to check that you are in good health before starting your cycle
> 
> *Mid Cycle* - Mid cycle bloodwork is done at some point during your cycle after serum levels have stabilized, generally speaking, *this is 4-5 weeks into your cycle for the most common medium/long esters* (cypionate, enanthate, decanoate ect). For those who are unsure how they aromatize (the process of converting testosterone to estrogen) this bloodwork is used to see how well a particular dose of testosterone is tolerated and if and what dose of an AI is needed for that individual (this is HIGHLY individual, and without this bloodwork it is impossible to dial in an AI dosage accurately). For those that are unsure of the authenticity of their Test product this bloodwork can also be used to show if the product is real or not and will give you a good idea if it is under dosed or not for most people.
> 
> *Post Cycle* - Regardless if an individual cruises/trt or pcts, post cycle bloodwork is arguably the most important, in conjunction to baseline precycle bloodwork. *This bloodwork is done after completing your PCT protocol, or after your serum levels have returned to normal TRT/Cruise levels. *This is to check lipids, liver stress, blood markers, ect to see how damaging/stressful your cycle has been.
> 
> *Between Cycles *- This bloodwork is generally excessive, most people skip this, but is still important for those that want to be sure about their health or those that had concerning results from their post cycle bloodwork. *This set of bloodwork is done generally 2-3 months after post cycle bloods if doing a longer downtime between cycles. *The purpose of this set is to access recovery of certain markers, this is somewhat redundant with precycle bloodwork for those that are doing shorter downtimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *How/Where Do We Get Bloodwork*
> Some people can get limited bloodwork ordered through their doctor, but most individuals prefer to order their tests privately.
> These are two of the common websites to order tests through
> 
> https://www.jasonhealth.com/ (my personal preference)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hormone Testing Blood Work For Men & Women Near You. Blood Test by Private MD Labs
> 
> 
> Order lab tests in 1 minute online without a doctor's visit with Private MD Labs. Take your test at a private lab the same day! Browse 1000’s of blood tests today!
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> www.privatemdlabs.com
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> Simply select your location, select the tests you want, pay for them, and then you will be emailed a requisition that you can print out and bring to a testing facility near you as if you got it straight from your doctor.
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> *What Do I Get Tested?*
> I use jasonhealth, so I will use their test names and terminology for this section, privatemdlabs offers much of the same testing, but bundles them differently under some different names.
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> *All Relevant Tests/Terminology*
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> *CMP *- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. Cheap test to get most basic health markers checked. S*hould always be included* since its so cheap and covers a wide array of markers
> *CBC* - Comprehensive Blood Panel. Another dirt cheap test for detailed blood markers such as WBC and hematocrit. *Should always be included*
> *Lipids - *checks cholesterol levels. Cheap. *Should always be included*
> *TSH *- Basic thyroid test. cheap. *Should be done intermittently* (I include this every other set of bloodwork, again, its cheap)
> *CRP *- C-Reactive Protein. Medium cost. Inflammation test/marker. *Should be done pre-cycle for your first baseline, then intermittently*. (I include this in every other set of bloodwork)
> *PSA* - Prostate test. medium cost. Should be done once a year, at initial baseline, and post cycle if using 19-nors (tren, nandrolone, ect)
> *Testosterone - *self explanatory, serum testosterone test. Pricy cost. Should be done during i*nitial baseline,* *mid cycle* if needed to confirm product authenticity, and *post cycle to access PCT successfulness.* If you know your products authenticity or are not pcting you can skip this test most of the time since youll be unnaturally elevated anyway. The cheaper version (just Testosterone; Total) can be used if all you are concerned about is product authenticity.
> *Cortisol* - Self explanatory. tests cortisol levels. Medium cost. Not that necessary of a test in general but I like including it for *baselines, and once a year*.
> *Estradiol *- Serum Estrogen Test. Medium Cost. Should be included in *baseline, and mid cycle* to access aromatization rate and to dial in AI dosage (if needed)
> *FSH/LH *- Follicle stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone test. Medium Cost. Should be included in baseline and Post Cycle to access PCT effectiveness. These are the primary markers we try to bring back to baseline by PCTing, these are the markers that are reduced when we refer to being "shut down" or "suppressed" and are the important markers to indicate natural testosterone production. Not needed for those that B/C or TRT as the result will be undetectable for most people.
> *Prolactin* - Prolactin Serum Test. Medium Cost. Female hormone that may have some impact on gynoclemastia in conjunction with estradiol, should be included in *baseline*. 19--Nors can elevate this marker for some people, and should be checked either* mid or post cycle if using 19 nors*.
> *Hepatic Function Panel *- Liver Function test. Cheap. Some overlap with CMP with some more detailed markers tested.* Should always be included.*
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> *I Have X Marker Come Back High/Low, What Does This Mean?*
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> High Urea nitrogen(bun)/Creatinine/EGFR
> Could indicate kidney damage/failure however gets elevated from intense training. If highly elevated, take some time off from training and retest. slightly elevated creatinine is generally not something to be overly concerned about
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> Albumin/Globulin low/high
> Indicates protein levels in your blood. Low could be from dietary issues (not enough protein) or from liver/kidney issues. High is typically an indicator of dehydration, and that your water intake is not sufficient.
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> AST/ALT
> Liver stress markers. Commonly elevated from oral use. Some elevation is expected with oral use and can be minimized/limited with NAC/Tudca supplementation. Excessive elevation indicates severe liver stress and all orals should be ceased and you should retest the following month.
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> Estradiol
> Estrogen Level Marker. Commonly elevated when on cycle due to aromatization, everyone aromatizes at a different rate and everyone has a different tolerance to high estrogen levels. Overly elevated levels indicates your test dose is too high or your AI dose is too low and can cause the typical side effects associated with steroid use. (acne, blood preasure, oily skin, gyno, ect) Estrogen is necessary for regular bodily function and low estrogen will make you feel like shit, if your estrogen comes back well bellow the reference range than your AI dose is far too high.
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> CRP
> Systemic inflammation indicator. If this marker is elevated it means something is causing general inflammation in your body. This could indicate infection or that your body doesnt particularly like/is mildly allergic to the particular carrier oil your products are in.
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> Prolactin
> High prolactin can potentially cause high estrogen-like symptoms and gyno, as well as cause a myriad of sexual function issues, what is called "Deca Dick" is likely caused by elevated prolactin most of the time. This marker is commonly elevated due to 19-nor use and can be managed with over the counter supplements like P5P or with medication like cabergoline.
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> Lipids (Cholesterol/HDL/LDL
> These markers are routinely thrown out of whack from steroid use, in a dose specific manner. HDL is commonly referred to as "Good cholesterol", LDL is commonly referred to as "Bad Cholesterol". PCT and cruise periods are important to give your body a break and let these levels normalize. These markers can be mitigated through diet and supplementation of healthy fats like fish oil. Extended periods of time with these markers out of whack can lead to heart disease and other serious issues, if these markers are still poor at pre-cycle bloodwork, then you should not proceed with your cycle until you are in better health.
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> This is of course, not a complete list of all issues that can be discovered in bloodwork, but outlines the most common ones. This should not be taken as medical advice, if you are having issues please seek the treatment and advice of a medical professional, this information is for educational purposes only.


Whew thanks lol that cleard alot of stuff up


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## Thebiggestdumbass

Mukbuk88 said:


> Whew thanks lol that cleard alot of stuff up


You got bigger issues than blood work to focus on bro


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## BombSkillz

Thanks for this. It was very helpful.

I am also somewhat blown away at how cheap these tests are. For years I've been sending my doc requests for labs. He always ends up forgetting this or that, then I gotta go back again, or interrogate the lab tech over the phone about what's on the list before I go...

I am sure I've paid more in copays over the years than I would have just using an online service, not to mention the hundreds getting dumped into the hospital system's coffers from the bloated insurance billing racket. And the tests are done at legit labs, e.g. one of the services @TomJ suggested in the original post, Jason Health, uses Quest.


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