# Confusion on preparing 2nd cycle. test p/anavar



## mabdelrasoul (Jun 18, 2012)

whats up guys im about to start my second cycle in about 2 months, im now just preparing my cycle and all ,and need some insight. my first cycle was test e 500mg ew 1-12 40mg dbol 1-4.  i gained about 15lb and kept about 6lb due to horrible diet and pct but now got all that jam packed.

For this upcoming cycle i wanted to gain as much lean mass as possible.(no bloat) 
heres what i came up with.

test prop 1-10 100mg eod
anavar either 6-10 100mg ed OR 2-10 50mg ed?  this is the confusion part.
adex 2-10 .50 e3d

pct= nolva 40/20/20/20

also wondering if anyone may have a better cycle for me to run for this one? any opinions are welcomes, as thats what im looking for.

stats
21 yrs
14%bf
5'10
184lb


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## 69nites (Jun 18, 2012)

mabdelrasoul said:


> whats up guys im about to start my second cycle in about 2 months, im now just preparing my cycle and all ,and need some insight. my first cycle was test e 500mg ew 1-12 40mg dbol 1-4.  i gained about 15lb and kept about 6lb due to horrible diet and pct but now got all that jam packed.
> 
> For this upcoming cycle i wanted to gain as much lean mass as possible.(no bloat)
> heres what i came up with.
> ...



2-10@50mg. Don't worry about all these guys dosing at 100mg a day.  50mg of good var is plenty.

I would personally switch the adex for some aromasin. Just better ime.

You want to post up what really matters for this being a successful cycle?  Diet and training. You aren't going to retain shit if you don't eat and train right no matter what compounds you use.


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## DADAWG (Jun 18, 2012)

100 mg eod is just 350 mg a week , thats less than your last cycle AND var is not as strong as dbol. control bloat with with your anti estrogens and raise your test to 150 mg eod anyway.


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## noobmuscle (Jun 18, 2012)

DADAWG said:


> 100 mg eod is just 350 mg a week , thats less than your last cycle AND var is not as strong as dbol. control bloat with with your anti estrogens and raise your test to 150 mg eod anyway.



I agree with Dadawg on this. I would look at at least 150 mg eod. I know your also wanting to gain lbm with little bloat, but I have become a big fan of Oxymethalone (Abombs) on this cycle. Just like Dbol, they will cause bloat, but thats what AI's are for! I have been running Aromasin since week 2 on this cycle and I do not feel like I am retaining water. I go for blood test next week, so we will see for sure then. It might be worth your while to look at the profile on it. I don't worry about water retention from my compounds because a good AI prevents this anyway. If that's the case, there should no reason for that being a deciding factor on compounds imo.

Might want to add Clomid to your PCT. This will ensure you recover a little better than last time. Better safe than sorry is how I approach PCT.

I can also identify with you on the diet thing. First two cycles I did not know of places like SI. I am on my 4th now and I have gained more in 4 weeks than I would have in  12 before. Good luck brother!


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

ya i was also thinking about that. im guna raise it to 150 eod.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

noobmuscle said:


> I agree with Dadawg on this. I would look at at least 150 mg eod. I know your also wanting to gain lbm with little bloat, but I have become a big fan of Oxymethalone (Abombs) on this cycle. Just like Dbol, they will cause bloat, but thats what AI's are for! I have been running Aromasin since week 2 on this cycle and I do not feel like I am retaining water. I go for blood test next week, so we will see for sure then. It might be worth your while to look at the profile on it. I don't worry about water retention from my compounds because a good AI prevents this anyway. If that's the case, there should no reason for that being a deciding factor on compounds imo.
> 
> Might want to add Clomid to your PCT. This will ensure you recover a little better than last time. Better safe than sorry is how I approach PCT.
> 
> I can also identify with you on the diet thing. First two cycles I did not know of places like SI. I am on my 4th now and I have gained more in 4 weeks than I would have in  12 before. Good luck brother!


ya man i know what u mean.i think ill also take that dbol in to mind and just control the bloat with the ai. and the reason for me doing the var is because i hurd some great things when on high dose of var.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

what do you guys think about extending my cycle to 12 weeks, and adding in npp. thought i would add in npp to help with gains and also help me ease up on my joint pain. so my cycle would look like this.

(test p)1-12 150mg eod 
(npp)1-10 100mg eod
(anavar) 2-10 50mg eod
(adex) 1-pct


pct

nolva 40/20/20/20
clomid 50/50/25/25

What do you guys think?


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## 69nites (Jun 19, 2012)

mabdelrasoul said:


> what do you guys think about extending my cycle to 12 weeks, and adding in npp. thought i would add in npp to help with gains and also help me ease up on my joint pain. so my cycle would look like this.
> 
> (test p)1-12 150mg eod
> (npp)1-10 100mg eod
> ...


I don't like the idea of adding 2 compounds you haven't used at the same time.  Also. Take var ed not eod.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

69nites said:


> I don't like the idea of adding 2 compounds you haven't used at the same time.  Also. Take var ed not eod.


well i mean test is test no? only difference would be the ester. so isnt it that npp would only be considered the only compund i havent tried. unless the shorter ester would have my body react that much different. (educate me)


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## 69nites (Jun 19, 2012)

mabdelrasoul said:


> well i mean test is test no? only difference would be the ester. so isnt it that npp would only be considered the only compund i havent tried. unless the shorter ester would have my body react that much different. (educate me)


Npp and var.  You are introducing 2 new compounds at the same time.


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## Pikiki (Jun 19, 2012)

Yo I think you are confuse Npp is Nandrolone phenylproprionate so is not test but deca with a phenylpropionate ester. So you do really are introducing 2 new compounds if you never has used them before.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

Pikiki said:


> Yo I think you are confuse Npp is Nandrolone phenylproprionate so is not test but deca with a phenylpropionate ester. So you do really are introducing 2 new compounds if you never has used them before.



i was referring to the test prop. and iv done var before my cycle  on its own like a retart when i knew nothing about it. i did get hard but hardly any gains. and diet was bad. u dont think its a good idea to do npp?


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 19, 2012)

Lol this is a confusing thread....run the cycle for 12 weeks. 

Test p 175mg Mon Wed fri
Var 50mg ed to start
If you want to add npp then 125mg Mon Wed Fri
Adex or aromasin will work just fine


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Lol this is a confusing thread....run the cycle for 12 weeks.
> 
> Test p 175mg Mon Wed fri
> Var 50mg ed to start
> ...


finally someone with a lil help and opinion lol thanks cobra


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

do i stop npp 2 weeks before test like nandrole deca or run it the full 12 weeks along side the test


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## Pikiki (Jun 19, 2012)

mabdelrasoul said:


> i was referring to the test prop. and iv done var before my cycle  on its own like a retart when i knew nothing about it. i did get hard but hardly any gains. and diet was bad. u dont think its a good idea to do npp?



Ok sorry about that I though was the Var and NPP. And NPPfor the purpose you want is good IMO, Cobra has spoken:-B lol


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

Pikiki said:


> Ok sorry about that I though was the Var and NPP. And NPPfor the purpose you want is good IMO, Cobra has spoken:-B lol


its cool dude. and thanks. so i guess im guna have to make another order and add in the npp.


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## Get Some (Jun 19, 2012)

you've never used anavar before.... 100mg daily will rape your soul... seriously, you'll get acid reflux so bad you'll start punching babies

I'm really confused now or "confused as fuck" if you will. It sounded like you were going for lean mass in the beginning but now you are considering using NPP. If this was a drug deal, you were trying to buy an ounce of weed and you let everyone talk you into a kilo of coke instead!

Test is test and the bloat will not change from ester to ester. I know people don't believe this but it is true. The "bloat" is 100,000% the result of aromatization to estrogen. Your E2 levels spike and you retain more water. I feel if someone took the time to explain this a little better we could save people the hassle of pinning test prop EOD because they think it will bloat them less. The simple fact is that test prop has a half life that is about a 3rd or a quarter of the half life of Test E, so you have to inject it more often. The more you inject means you are injecting less product each time. Conversely, the more mg of test you inject in a single pin, the more it will drive up your test levels. It is entirely possible the 500mg of Test Cyp will achieve levels more than DOUBLE what 350mg of test prop could achieve (even though the ester weight is more with Cyp or Enth). More Test = more aromatization. 

To make it easier... if you are injecting 100mg test prop EOD (350mg EW) then you are keeping your levels fairly stable. However, if you cut that down to 2 injections per week it would be 175mg per injection instead of 100mg. The 175 hits you all at once, taking your levels higher than what 100mg at any point could hope to do. So, as you can see, the timing of your dosage is clearly a lot more important than people make it out to be. AND because using test prop only twice per week is not sensible considering the drop in levels over a 3.5 days between pins period, you need to look at longer acting options. TPP is probably the best compromise that I can think of, but it's not available everywhere.  So, instead, just use 400mg of Test Cyp or Enth EW (2 injections of 200mg each) to get a similar effect. The halt life is longer so it will take longer to kick in, but the buildup in level will be much greater than if you were using test prop.... plus, you don't have to be a pincushion! 

If you are using Adex or preferably Aromasin, bloat is not an issue. The only way bloat would become an issue is through your diet. Typically this would involve consuming foods that are very high in sodium (i.e. pretty much any fast food). 

No offense mab, but you are not ready to use NPP. Why? Because for starters you don't even know what it is. You may know that it's Nandrolone Phenylproionate. Do you know anything else about it? (real question, not patronizing you). NPP will cause more non-estro related bloat than anything else you have in there. 

Here is my recommendation:

Test E: 400mg EW Weeks 1-12
Var:  50-60mg ED Weeks 1-4 and Weeks 12-15
Aromasin: 12.5mg EOD throughout (adjust accordingly and have letro on hand if you have gyno flare ups with Test)
HCG: 500IU Twice Weekly Weeks 3-7 and Weeks 9-11
HCG Blast: 500IU EOD for 21 days following last Test pin
Nolva: 40mgED Week 16-17 and 20mg ED Week 18-19
Clomid: 100mg ED Week 16 and 50mg ED Week 17-18 and 25mg ED Week 19

If you do this right with the correct diet and training program, you can expect to get some very large, very solid, non-watery gains. The rest is up to you! But, be advised... like my setup shows, a 12 week cycle is really 19 weeks in total. You want that anavar all the way up until just before PCT. Cut off all HCG and Aromasin when PCT starts.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

Get Some said:


> you've never used anavar before.... 100mg daily will rape your soul... seriously, you'll get acid reflux so bad you'll start punching babies
> 
> I'm really confused now or "confused as fuck" if you will. It sounded like you were going for lean mass in the beginning but now you are considering using NPP. If this was a drug deal, you were trying to buy an ounce of weed and you let everyone talk you into a kilo of coke instead!
> 
> ...


ya lean mass is my goal. and what your saying is def understandable. guess your right i do need to research npp some more. and maybe i will follow the cycle u just layed out for me. problem is i already have the prop and anavar. so ill just run the cycle with the prob and var. im not trying to spend anymore money. im kind of on a budget here. hope someone else can chime in and give an opinion . much thanks to your opinion and knowledge. by the way . i am here to learn and learn and learn!!


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## Get Some (Jun 19, 2012)

It's very hard to run a proper cycle on a budget because the added FOOD expense should be way more than the added GEAR expense. When going for gains you should be eating so much that people will begin to worry about you. The cleaner you eat, the cleaner your gains will be. If you want to eat a lot but keep the fat down then do some AM fasted cardio..... BAM!


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 19, 2012)

Get Some said:


> It's very hard to run a proper cycle on a budget because the added FOOD expense should be way more than the added GEAR expense. When going for gains you should be eating so much that people will begin to worry about you. The cleaner you eat, the cleaner your gains will be. If you want to eat a lot but keep the fat down then do some AM fasted cardio..... BAM!



ya i def know what u mean about the "people will begin to worry about u". my mother keeps swearing im guna get sick from how much i eat  lmao0. i just dont know how to explain to her that its called healthy eating. but sure will do that cardio in the a.m.

so hows this cycle look to u.

test p 1-12 175mg eod
anavar 1-4 50mg ed 8-12 50mg ed  OR 1-8 50mg ed?
adex 1-16 .5mg e3d

nolva 12-16 40/40/20/20
clomid 12-16 50/50/50/25


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

Ok get some that was some decent info but way to much filler bro. You seem new to the boards because every post I've read of yours is a page long lol 

I don't agree with your pct plan either or your Anavar lengths. it seems like your pretty much calling out Dr scallys protocol but you don't start using the hcg blast until your physiological test levels are below 200mg in the blood, which is based off half lifes. Also serms therapy doesn't start until your hcg blast is over. 4 weeks is ok for Anavar but its bot really gonna give the full effect. For this cycle I feel the last 8 weeks of var would be a much better use. 

And let's not go and make npp out to be bad. You can get lean gains with any aas depending on your diet, true story! 

As far ad diet goes its to generalized to tell a guy to eat do much people will worry...that'd not always the case and gives to much of a broad spectrum on what it actually means. 

I know your doing your best to help bro and I'm not digging on you for that but make sure you read the thread before you answer any questions because you would have known he already has the gear and could have saved yourself half a page Haha

Now look what you made me do....I wrote a page too!

Keep up the solid posting though bro


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

Op.....yes stop the npp 2 weeks earlier then the test


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

fuck you guys just confused the shit out of me lol.


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

I get what you're saying bro, but the exact #1 BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH EVERY BOARD TODAY IS THAT PEOPLE DON'T READ ENOUGH! They want everything in concise form and just the facts. Well, sometimes just the facts doesn't make a whole lot of sense all alone. Sometimes you have to have explanation "filler." If everyone would read everything that I write I can guarantee they'd be a lot better off. 

As for PCT/HCG... I agree with Scally on most points and him and I have had discussions on this subject back and forth through PM on a scientific level so I have a much better understanding of it than I originally did way back in the day. However, I use a modified version of his PCT that I feel works a little better for the general user. It's not something that I just dreamt up, it's based on results. The first thing I try to avoid is basing anything off of test levels. Yes, this is the best method to decide when to do anything, but the harsh reality is 95+% of people will never in their life get their levels tested even once! (Outside of HRT of course). So, I try to give people something they can use to succeed. There is no possible way I could have crammed the info into a single concise paragraph that the OP could understand. But here's a few short responses concerning other items:

ectomorph = eat til it hurts, that's a pretty good description if you want to gain

NPP = fabulous product, don't think it's the right choice for the OP yet

HCG = throughout cycle is best used "as needed" but I have to give a reference point like 500IU twice weekly for X weeks for people who have never used it before or else they will be lost

So much of this process becomes "feel" after the fist few cycles. I try to combine the best of what I know from science and real world experience to share with everyone. People who have known me for a long time and like reading my stuff usually know to read my posts cuz they are not BS  But that certainly doesn't mean everyone has to sit through them.

Cheers 



Cobra Strike said:


> Ok get some that was some decent info but way to much filler bro. You seem new to the boards because every post I've read of yours is a page long lol
> 
> I don't agree with your pct plan either or your Anavar lengths. it seems like your pretty much calling out Dr scallys protocol but you don't start using the hcg blast until your physiological test levels are below 200mg in the blood, which is based off half lifes. Also serms therapy doesn't start until your hcg blast is over. 4 weeks is ok for Anavar but its bot really gonna give the full effect. For this cycle I feel the last 8 weeks of var would be a much better use.
> 
> ...


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

I would do it 3 weeks to be safe if he really is going to do it. 9 weeks of NPP injections that overflow into 11-12 weeks is plenty of time to grow on the stuff. 

Also, Anavar is a complete waste of time if you have to run it for 8 weeks and IMO a complete waste of time in a bulking cycle. Winstrol has been proven to add more mass than anavar and is much less expensive.

For people new to running cycles, you ALWAYS want to start them off week 1 with an oral to keep them motivated. For you and me, your back end or mid plan may be more effective, but we've been through it before. 

TO the OP: IMO, stick with the prop and var that you have and worry about adding NPP the next time around. A general pattern to follow if you are going to run cycles over the years is to keep using the same compounds for 2 cycles in a row and then on the 3rd one switch it up. For the 2nd cycle with the same compounds, just increase the doses to see how much additional benefit you will recieve versus the amount of side effects. You can mix orals in with any of these but I'm strictly speaking about injectables. 



Cobra Strike said:


> Op.....yes stop the npp 2 weeks earlier then the test


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

Ya I get everything your saying. What I'm saying is that your gonna get tired of spending your life explaining every detail of everything lol been there...

To the wrong person saying eat a shit ton with out giving an example can come across as them thinking chicken nuggets from mcyds is good. I've had people do that from me saying the same thing. I don't give advice based off of parroted info...everything I say is based off experiences and some scientific facts as there is not a lot of medical research to back a lot of this game up with. 

Your hybrid pct is nice maybe for you but not for the lay person. The easiest thing in the world to do is figure out a half life...it does not take blood work to know your levels are low. Ofcourse you will never actually know what your exact levels are but you van make a pretty good estimation with math. Wether you have created a hybrid pct or not doesn't change the human physiological responses to steroids. If your testicles are not ready to accept the lh signal then they won't...its that simple so hitting them with hcg while they are still suppressed will do nothing but raise ITT. The most oppurtune time to hit the testicles with hcg is right before they are ready to start accepting them and that is when the bodies test levels are normophysiologic or lower. 

I really like what you ate bringing to the table with your information...its good stuuf bro and I'm not disagreeing with it...I just have a different opinion then you. I'm not saying what your saying is wrong by no means invade your feeling like that...everyone here at SI appreciates everyone's help. 

As far as npp goes....I feel that he is ready. He's ran test and var before and let's face it var has very minimal side effects if any. Npp isn't something yhat is gonna fuck you up. As long as you run your ai properly, listen to your body, and get atleast one set of bloods done mid cycle then you will be fine. You will never learn if you don't do.


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

Lol ok whatever bro...the op should just follow your advice because I'm done giving conflicting information....

You just advised winni over var and said var at 8 weeks is a waste....right...I completely disagree

What would be a waste of time is npp at 3 weeks...wtf 

Take over bro....I will stay quite


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

Ah fuck man, now I see what you are talking about! I was thinking the whole time that I was agreeing with your hcg blast and then I looked back at my post and realized the I wrote 21 days instead of 12! My "modified" version was basically just referring to the use of HCG while on cycle. That's rarely talked about with good info backing it so I just like to give people a reference point. I agree with you on the half lives but I still will say that MOST people who end up doing this won't even worry about that shit until something becomes a problem, lol. Half lives are not that hard to figure out... until you realize that a half life, active life, and falling levels can be affected by a number of factors that most people don't even think about like injection site, number of mLs per injection,  additional solvents (EO, etc), and muscle fiber density. The latter is not a big deal because it's unavoidable and unchanging compound to compound. But, for the most part, I dont' trust people to do the right thing because they are inherently lazy, lol.

The main point is I agree with you on the supraphysiological levels being at the right spot. I've found that 12 days prior to PCT is almost perfect and I may have been a little confusing when I said it before. Good catch!

The only thing you ever worry about with NPP is the shutdown. It can shut you down super hard, so hard you may not even be expecting it. I think it requires more time off inbetween cycles unless you are a blast and cruiser. I just don't think it's necessary for this guy to add to his repertoire yet. Sounds like he is going to be doing 3.5 injections per week of almost 3ml per injection... I'm not sure he can handle that. And if you do EOD injections I would recommend at least 4 injection sites fo rotation, but preferably 6 to 8 to avoid scar tissue. When the needle world introduces you to your first scar tissue pin (where you stick it in one day and it feels like it hits a brick wall) then you will know what I mean! (talking to the op here, not you cobra)



Cobra Strike said:


> Ya I get everything your saying. What I'm saying is that your gonna get tired of spending your life explaining every detail of everything lol been there...
> 
> To the wrong person saying eat a shit ton with out giving an example can come across as them thinking chicken nuggets from mcyds is good. I've had people do that from me saying the same thing. I don't give advice based off of parroted info...everything I say is based off experiences and some scientific facts as there is not a lot of medical research to back a lot of this game up with.
> 
> ...


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

FUCK! damn I suck at typing... after "3 weeks" should be the word "early".... 3 weeks of NPP is a colossal waste,lol agreed!

Hey, just a miscommunication man... stick around at the party  As you said, all opinions are appreciated



Cobra Strike said:


> Lol ok whatever bro...the op should just follow your advice because I'm done giving conflicting information....
> 
> You just advised winni over var and said var at 8 weeks is a waste....right...I completely disagree
> 
> ...


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Ya I get everything your saying. What I'm saying is that your gonna get tired of spending your life explaining every detail of everything lol been there...
> 
> To the wrong person saying eat a shit ton with out giving an example can come across as them thinking chicken nuggets from mcyds is good. I've had people do that from me saying the same thing. I don't give advice based off of parroted info...everything I say is based off experiences and some scientific facts as there is not a lot of medical research to back a lot of this game up with.
> 
> ...



both opinions seem to make some sort of sense to me but more towards cobras side..whats up with 3 weeks of npp?lol and im no expert and may not be more knowledgeable than u in this game but out of all orals u advise winny? out of all orals (tbol,dbol)since were talking about a clean bulk cycle here. which is what im aiming for. also from what iv been researching winny seems to be harsher on sides then those mentioned. 

Cobra id like to see more posts from u in the future.


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

wow bro....just read it again man. I NEVER said to use NPP for 3 weeks. I said use it for 9 weeks and then finish 3 weeks before the test prop finishes. 

Winny - on a purely "performance" basis (especially mg per mg) it kicks the shit out of anavar for muscle building. If you really want some muscle then go with dbol as I originally advised. 

You guys just don't seem to get what's going on here and that's why these threads get so fucked up. I guess I'm just going to link to shit I've already written so I don't have to waste my breath again. I'm fine with Cobra and enjoyed conversing back and forth with him but the OP is clueless. It if for this exact reason I no longer frequent boards like Meso. I came here to impart some knowledge to the people. I have nothing to gain from this, but apparently people can't read or process information correctly. 

So, from now on I'm just going to reply with concise advice.... for example I'll just give a cycle layout and you can ask questions later. 

BTW OP... you can't say something like "out of all orals you advise winny?" if you've never tried it before, lol... nice try though 



mabdelrasoul said:


> both opinions seem to make some sort of sense to me but more towards cobras side..whats up with 3 weeks of npp?lol and im no expert and may not be more knowledgeable than u in this game but out of all orals u advise winny? out of all orals (tbol,dbol)since were talking about a clean bulk cycle here. which is what im aiming for. also from what iv been researching winny seems to be harsher on sides then those mentioned.
> 
> Cobra id like to see more posts from u in the future.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Get Some said:


> Ah fuck man, now I see what you are talking about! I was thinking the whole time that I was agreeing with your hcg blast and then I looked back at my post and realized the I wrote 21 days instead of 12! My "modified" version was basically just referring to the use of HCG while on cycle. That's rarely talked about with good info backing it so I just like to give people a reference point. I agree with you on the half lives but I still will say that MOST people who end up doing this won't even worry about that shit until something becomes a problem, lol. Half lives are not that hard to figure out... until you realize that a half life, active life, and falling levels can be affected by a number of factors that most people don't even think about like injection site, number of mLs per injection,  additional solvents (EO, etc), and muscle fiber density. The latter is not a big deal because it's unavoidable and unchanging compound to compound. But, for the most part, I dont' trust people to do the right thing because they are inherently lazy, lol.
> 
> The main point is I agree with you on the supraphysiological levels being at the right spot. I've found that 12 days prior to PCT is almost perfect and I may have been a little confusing when I said it before. Good catch!
> 
> The only thing you ever worry about with NPP is the shutdown. It can shut you down super hard, so hard you may not even be expecting it. I think it requires more time off inbetween cycles unless you are a blast and cruiser. I just don't think it's necessary for this guy to add to his repertoire yet. Sounds like he is going to be doing 3.5 injections per week of almost 3ml per injection... I'm not sure he can handle that. And if you do EOD injections I would recommend at least 4 injection sites fo rotation, but preferably 6 to 8 to avoid scar tissue. When the needle world introduces you to your first scar tissue pin (where you stick it in one day and it feels like it hits a brick wall) then you will know what I mean! (talking to the op here, not you cobra)



get what u both are saying. guess ill sleep on this one for a few days. research a little more and come to a conclusion. but dam do you guys know your stuff lol. man i wish to know my shit like that one day.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Get Some said:


> wow bro....just read it again man. I NEVER said to use NPP for 3 weeks. I said use it for 9 weeks and then finish 3 weeks before the test prop finishes.
> 
> Winny - on a purely "performance" basis (especially mg per mg) it kicks the shit out of anavar for muscle building. If you really want some muscle then go with dbol as I originally advised.
> 
> ...



my bad i wasnt trying to be a dick just from what i read off forums and stuff winnys side effects seem to be worse.


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

BTW, Cobra and I are in agreement for the cycle and HCG and PCT, but not on the oral usage and NPP. It's not going to do you any harm to run the anavar for 8 weeks, just not my favorite choice. You can run NPP if you like, I just think you can get very similar results without it. I think you should save NPP/Deca for when you are ready for an all out bulking cycle. 

As you get older you will realize a bunch of things are not as they seem and that you really only need 2 compounds in the long run.... test and tren. They do what everything else is capable of doing, just a little bit better! Save the tren for after you have done research on it and also are going to be doing a cutting cycle. 



mabdelrasoul said:


> get what u both are saying. guess ill sleep on this one for a few days. research a little more and come to a conclusion. but dam do you guys know your stuff lol. man i wish to know my shit like that one day.


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

I wasn't speaking at all about side effects, but yes I would agree... joint pain can be undearable if you run it too high. But 50mg per day and you can get some incredible results. Anavar is quite mild on side effects, but also quite mild in gains.... so pick your poison.



mabdelrasoul said:


> my bad i wasnt trying to be a dick just from what i read off forums and stuff winnys side effects seem to be worse.


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

I wasn't speaking at all about side effects, but yes I would agree... joint pain can be undearable if you run it too high. But 50mg per day and you can get some incredible results. Anavar is quite mild on side effects, but also quite mild in gains.... so pick your poison.



mabdelrasoul said:


> my bad i wasnt trying to be a dick just from what i read off forums and stuff winnys side effects seem to be worse.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Get Some said:


> BTW, Cobra and I are in agreement for the cycle and HCG and PCT, but not on the oral usage and NPP. It's not going to do you any harm to run the anavar for 8 weeks, just not my favorite choice. You can run NPP if you like, I just think you can get very similar results without it. I think you should save NPP/Deca for when you are ready for an all out bulking cycle.
> 
> As you get older you will realize a bunch of things are not as they seem and that you really only need 2 compounds in the long run.... test and tren. They do what everything else is capable of doing, just a little bit better! Save the tren for after you have done research on it and also are going to be doing a cutting cycle.



guess ill just leave it at that if u both agreed on it. ill just run the test n anavar. ill take it slow. diet is guna be on the money so hoping to reach my goal.  thanks bros.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Get Some said:


> I wasn't speaking at all about side effects, but yes I would agree... joint pain can be undearable if you run it too high. But 50mg per day and you can get some incredible results. Anavar is quite mild on side effects, but also quite mild in gains.... so pick your poison.



thats also one of the main reasons i wanted to do that npp. joint pain!! i hurd npp reliefs joint pain and man can i use some support on my joint. and ill still go with anavar. dont think ill ever wana use winny honestly.


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## RowdyBrad (Jun 20, 2012)

Some of this confusion was caused by a lack of research from OP. Make sure you know everything you can about what you are putting in your body before you plan or purchase your cycle. I am doing 50mg anavar a day for 8 weeks with my test and loving it. Great gains even though I am losing a bunch of fat. Space out your anavar 12 hours apart, 25mg 8 am and 25mg 8 pm etc.

No disrespect to OP, I want you to stay here and learn with all of us, but you did an oral only cycle and then made no real gaines off of your second cycle. Need to plan better and research more, then stick to it. Good luck.

Cobra and Get Some. Love reading both of your posts. Good knowledge, plus if everyone always agreed there would be no point of forums.


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

Im just gonna say that I dont agree with over half the stuff get some said. Ya we got the pct shit in agreement and I agree with stopping the npp 3 weeks early. But get some, bro, you have contradicted yourself a few times (i.e. we are talking about lean bulk and you advise dbol...thats opposite of lean and advising winni when you say your worried about what npp will do to him) and slipped up on giving terrible advice..(advising winni oral over var...cmon bro everyone knows oral winni is shit and if you have done it you would know too. Its good for one thing, lowering shbg at a low dose of 15-20mg ed. Winni is best in oil. And even if you were talking about winni injectable then its still not better then var as it destroys the lipids far worse then var does and creates alot more sides)...whatever...we all make mistakes. But confusing a guy thats just learning really annoys the fuck out of me. And saying that people dont know how to read...really? Im pretty sure I am reading everything perfectly clear...Not trying to pick a fight here but I cant sit back and see this advice be given. Ya get some you do seem like an intelligent person but I am trying to figure out where your coming up with some of this stuff??? If your gettin this info from meso then that says alot about that board.

Ya the op can do some research but we all can do some research, including myself. There is never a time where someone knows everything...everyone is a student in this.

I was even confused on this shit so I stopped giving my opinion...and that doesnt happen that often

I feel bad that all this shit had to happen on this guys thread...totally got off track and misguided.

ps...I want to add that Im not saying get some doesnt know what he is talking about...I am simply disagreeing with some of the advice he has given on this thread


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

rowdybrad said:


> Some of this confusion was caused by a lack of research from OP. Make sure you know everything you can about what you are putting in your body before you plan or purchase your cycle. I am doing 50mg anavar a day for 8 weeks with my test and loving it. Great gains even though I am losing a bunch of fat. Space out your anavar 12 hours apart, 25mg 8 am and 25mg 8 pm etc.
> 
> No disrespect to OP, I want you to stay here and learn with all of us, but you did an oral only cycle and then made no real gaines off of your second cycle. Need to plan better and research more, then stick to it. Good luck.
> 
> Cobra and Get Some. Love reading both of your posts. Good knowledge, plus if everyone always agreed there would be no point of forums.



nun takin. and your right i should have done more research before hand. guess i was just hyping the fact that i was guna go on a real cycle, and i will def hang around and learn as much as i can. and ill take the 12 hour gap in to consideration.


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

And cobra its cool man.  no worries. guess i should of just did some more research before preparing a cycle. lesson learned.


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

mabdelrasoul said:


> And cobra its cool man.  no worries. guess i should of just did some more research before preparing a cycle. lesson learned.



Dont think this is your fault bro..the confusion came from differences in opinions not from your lack of experience. 

Where else are you gonna research? Other boards? where do people think a guy is suppose to learn? People learn from the boards, other peoples experiences, from their own experiences, and from just researching different aas profiles. That is why we are here, the experienced to help the inexperienced.

OP your fine bro...you came to the right place...just had two guys that believe different things giving you advice...one of us had to go so I choose myself to let you get on track


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Dont think this is your fault bro..the confusion came from differences in opinions not from your lack of experience.
> 
> Where else are you gonna research? Other boards? where do people think a guy is suppose to learn? People learn from the boards, other peoples experiences, from their own experiences, and from just researching different aas profiles. That is why we are here, the experienced to help the inexperienced.
> 
> OP your fine bro...you came to the right place...just had two guys that believe different things giving you advice...one of us had to go so I choose myself to let you get on track



thank bro. much appreciated. and i def do appreciate the information givin on this board alot more then ology. they seem to love flaming people there. and i agree . there really is no other place to get your info from . other then people that have been there and experienced them selves in order to give out accurate information. looking forward to read up on your threads cobra. and what do you mean by "one of us had to go so I choose myself to let you get on track"??


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

mabdelrasoul said:


> thank bro. much appreciated. and i def do appreciate the information givin on this board alot more then ology. they seem to love flaming people there. and i agree . there really is no other place to get your info from . other then people that have been there and experienced them selves in order to give out accurate information. looking forward to read up on your threads cobra. and what do you mean by "one of us had to go so I choose myself to let you get on track"??



I meant that get some and I would just end up going back and forth all day and you would get very confused at this stage so I just let him give you advise for the sake of arguing. Dont be afraid to post any questions bro


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 20, 2012)

God damn this was a good read!

Cobra, Get Some is actually a very well respected board veteran and staffs TID with me. His depth of knowledge from experience and a scientific understanding is certainly valued. He's helped me and countless other noobtards that were willing to read, learn and understand.

Having said that, the same can be said for you... I hope to see more of this in the future...


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

PillarofBalance said:


> God damn this was a good read!
> 
> Cobra, Get Some is actually a very well respected board veteran and staffs TID with me. His depth of knowledge from experience and a scientific understanding is certainly valued. He's helped me and countless other noobtards that were willing to read, learn and understand.
> 
> Having said that, the same can be said for you... I hope to see more of this in the future...



I dont doubt that pob....and I have no personal issues with the guy. He does seem very knowledgable from the posts Ive read but during this thread there was alot of things that I just could not agree with. I look forward to reading his posts in the future as Im always looking to learn new things


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> I meant that get some and I would just end up going back and forth all day and you would get very confused at this stage so I just let him give you advise for the sake of arguing. Dont be afraid to post any questions bro



i wont man. matter fact heres one.  what does op stand for lol i know that im referred to as op just didnt want to interupt n ask


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

op = original post or original postee lol


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 20, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> op = original post or original postee lol



gotchu lol


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

Cobra.... seriously bro? How many times did I try to clarify things and state that I was on the same page with you? And yet you arbitrarily state that HALF of the things I said you do not disagree with. Oral winny is shit? I respect your opinion but almost everyone I have dealt with who can handle a little joint discomfort knows that it will bring you more strength then just about anything else. And you don't have to act like I haven't tried anything because I've literally tried it all, lol. Injectable winny is way too much of a hassle for what it's worth unless you are competing. 

Saying that I'm contradicting myself by advising Dbol on a lean bulk is pure idiocy. If you're telling me you can't lean bulk with dbol then put simply, "you're doing it wrong." The funny thing is that you yourself posted that you can lean bulk with just about anything if you're diet is right? Who's the one with conflicting statements now? 

I clarified multiple points and commended you for pointing them out so the OP would ahve a better understanding yet you still continue to attack me. Saying, "I'm not looking for a fight" or using similar jargon does not absolve anything that you have said. You are the one who is acting like it's your way or the highway. I was having a good time conversing with you abotu several topics and offering my opinions. But the next time someone calls me out in a thread for something petty and I don't respond to it will be the first. You can't just go around talking trash and spewing opinions out of your mouth like they are fact just because some dude comes in with a little knowledge.

It really feels to me like you can't take me being here. So fine, I'll leave... like I said, I don't need this place and it doesn't need me, I was simply offering to help. You can never "make" anyone do anything. You can only hope to advise them on what to do and then let them make the decision for themselves. Remember, you were the one who attacked me Cobra, I tried several times to have a convo with you within the thread so the OP could better understand what was going on and all you did was attack. Ask POB or anyone else how often I don't get along with people... it never happens bro, I get along with everyone. Assuming I'm getting all my information from Meso and then bashing the board shows yet another moment of contradiction on your part. You advocate Scally PCT but then bash the board on which he has a presence? Did you not go there at one point or another to read his articles on PCT and HCG? 

I could go on all day bro about how ridiculous you are being and it's an absolute shame. I hope that this board does well and that you do attract some people with good knowledge, but if you keep acting like you are, everytime someone comes in with a different opinion than yourself will just end up leaving. I was the first ever Mod at TID and I've been around the block a thousand times bro, I'm not just some newb regurgitating bro lore or copy/pasting articles. But anyways, seems like you have everything under control here so I'll see you guys down the road...


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## Get Some (Jun 20, 2012)

And just to further clarify, by "attack" I mean specifically stating that I give terrible advice when it's simply an opinion. I agree with Brad that discussion between multiple knowledgeable people are always for the better. But when you specifically call me out and say I'm giving bad advice, that's not productive at all. The fact that you don't know who I am shows that you have no respect for anyone other than yourself when it comes to knowledge Cobra. The fact you said "everyone" knows oral winny is shit is a deliberate exaggeration and a lie. Why is it one of the best selling oral AAS on the market? If it was absolute shit as you claim, people would not buy it no matter how cheap it was. I really hope you choose wiser words in the future, because you could really offend the wrong person.... just be lucky it was me this time and I rarely ever get offended or put off.


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 20, 2012)

Forget everything i just said. My apologies bro. I'm not asking you to leave the board nor do I want that.


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## DADAWG (Jun 20, 2012)

for the record i do agree that winnie is SHIT.i think its the most overrated steroid there is . it trashes hdl levels , dries out the joints ,its worse than most other orals on liver values on people that i know persionally , and its rep as a cutter is based largely on how it dries you out but when you stop winnie the water comes back.


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## Get Some (Jun 21, 2012)

DAWG... I 100% respect your opinion and I realize it's a love/hate relationship with Winny. And I didn't mean to seem like I was "trashing" anavar if anyone took it that way. I like var because it has very few side effects, I was just stating that I get better "gains" with winny. Anywho, doesn't sound like the op was considering winny anyways. BTW, good to see you here Dawg!

Cobra... Sorry to come at you like that bro, I just felt disrespected. I'm sure if someone did the same thing to you that you would feel similar. I may have overreacted when I said I was going to leave and that's not typical of me at all. You just happen to catch me on a bad day (and I'm not even running tren!). But really I think the root of the problem is that it's so hard to tell emotion in typed words versus someone saying them to you. So, I hope we can sort out our differences and have some engaging conversations in the future... I'm game!

To the OP.... sorry that all of this got out of hand in your thread, but I think you pretty much have an idea of what to do now. Like Cobra said a few posts back, just keep researching... it's a never ending journey. Oh, and I'm not sure if you mentioned using hcg at all, but I would look into this as well. Some guys say they don't need it, but many of us swear by it and it will help your HPTA recover faster than with standard SERM therapy. 



DADAWG said:


> for the record i do agree that winnie is SHIT.i think its the most overrated steroid there is . it trashes hdl levels , dries out the joints ,its worse than most other orals on liver values on people that i know persionally , and its rep as a cutter is based largely on how it dries you out but when you stop winnie the water comes back.


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## Cobra Strike (Jun 21, 2012)

No worries.....squashed

im having a bad day because Im not on tren!


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## Pikiki (Jun 21, 2012)

When great knowledge and diffrent opinions face each other discussion will raise, the best of it is see the two of you get the diffrences between solve. I love the fact the more ppl like you two come to this board cause is great to have knowledge and diffrent point of views on how do things specially when comes by EXPERIENCE more than readings. Very happy to read this convo and see the both of you just fix it like men. I respect the ones who comes with the great advices to the ones who needs them. Just a funny post for the hell of it:


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## Bevo (Jun 21, 2012)

Very entertaining and full of information good shit


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## Bullseye Forever (Jun 21, 2012)

damn what did i miss lol:-?


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 21, 2012)

Bevo said:


> Very entertaining and full of information good shit



i agree. lol


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## Yaya (Jun 29, 2012)

my next cycle will be testp, anavar, mastp.. maybe even gonna add rips too.. 

very excited


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## mabdelrasoul (Jun 29, 2012)

goodluck on that cycle


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## Jada (Jul 1, 2012)

Great thread! I just read the Whole thang!


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## mabdelrasoul (Jul 1, 2012)

Jadakiss said:


> Great thread! I just read the Whole thang!




glad you enjoyed it


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