# Strict form, yes or no?



## Seeker

Should you cheat on form?
I've been lifting weights for many years and this subject comes up often. My answer is when it comes to working out and lifting weights there is no real RIGHT or WRONG answer here. It depends on the individual, the training situation, the level of training, and the end goal.

As a beginner it is very important to learn how to perform the exercises with strict proper form using lighter weights. One needs to get used to the whole process of working out, and actually learn how it actually feels to work your muscles with weights. The best way  to do this is by using slow and controlled form at all time by flexing and contracing with each rep.

 Now things start to change as you progress from a beginner to an intermediate level. As you progress you will definitely get stronger and start to lift heavier weight.  Now you'll find that your technique will need to change up a bit because now with lifting heavier weight, different muscles will come into play. Body positioning becomes more important, your set up, and your mental focus becomes even more important. You'll see with the heavier weight you'll need to use more force, and momentum to complete the exercise. Used correctly this will help you work the muscles harder. slow and super strict form is in the past now. Look at Arnolds encyclopedia and read his section on cheat reps. If you want to grow, youll have to learn how to use a little English here, a little swing here, a little leg drive there.

Once youve reached a level of some advancement. Years of training, trial and error, you've developed your own unique exercise style and groove from years of lifting by knowing how to provide more muscle stimulation and deliver the maximum work to your muscles.  By now you'll also know if you're overdoing it. My experience over the years has been this what i wrote above. I did not reach the level of size i gained  by being too strict. 

So to cheat or not to cheat? Yes, and no.

Seek


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## PillarofBalance

Has my seal of approval for bodybuilding purposes as a way to go beyond failure with very strict form

However I do not approve of what appears to be tourretes or perhaps epilepsy.  You still need to be able to squeeze the target and use a controlled negative.


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## Seeker

D





PillarofBalance said:


> Has my seal of approval for bodybuilding purposes as a way to go beyond failure with very strict form
> 
> However I do not approve of what appears to be tourretes or perhaps epilepsy.  You still need to be able to squeeze the target and use a controlled negative.



Yes I'm very aware of those types as we joke about them all the time on FB. Come on now, we are talking on a different level here. For example. When doing bent over rows and I got 315 lbs on the bar, I'm gonna use some leg drive to get those weights moving beyond my normal capacity. I am talking being in control at all times.


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## MrRippedZilla

There is no fixed, universal definition of "strict form" for most movements because it depends on the individuals specific biomechanical make up. 
For example, we all know that not everyone can bench, squat or DL with the same exact form and, with serious imbalances, this can even be extended to simple movements like curls (I know some people who have front delts so dominant that simple BB curls become useless and we have to go with something like incline curls instead). 
So if "strict form" isn't a fixed term then, as a result, "cheating" isn't either. 

Having said all that, once a beginner has experimented enough to find the optimal form for them (preferably under the tutelage of someone who knows what they're doing) then I don't agree that they should sacrifice that form just to move more weight. 
Of course when you set new RMs form does get a bit sloppy whether you like or not but the idea that you should consciously slack off on your form just to get the weight up....not happening in my book. 
Remember that "optimal" form for a bodybuilder involves maximizing tension on the targeted muscle group so, by slacking off on this form to get the weight up, the focus is no longer on the targeted area and therefore the set becomes a waste of time. If you consider the RDL and how even the slightest bit of "cheating" can drastically alter what muscle group becomes the primary target...you should see what I'm talking about. 

Now cheating does have its place, as POB said, a few cheat reps towards the end of one your finals set to go beyond failure here & there is perfectly fine and can aid growth when programmed appropriately (as with everything). 
Cheat reps should be programmed just like drop sets, partials, forced reps, etc are - as an extra aid to generate some more volume, damage & fatigue to the muscles. They shouldn't be used as the PRIMARY form for your working sets.


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## PillarofBalance

Whoa zilla hold on there. Are you suggesting that because I lift in a certain way that this will not work for everyone?  Clearly this makes no sense because I have this empirical evidence from my extensive studies of a single person...


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## ECKSRATED

Absolutely yes. Like u said when u get to those heavier weights you need to let the body sway a little bit to keep the force against the weight. Just holding up 8 plates on t bar with perfect form is almost impossible. When u lower the weight down your body is gonna move with it. 

It take experience to learn how to use momentum and cheat reps to your advantage and still target those muscles you're trying to hit. 

This kinda brings me back to saltys thread about his rowing technique. The guy was doing the entire stack so he's gonna have to sway a little bit with the weight. Holding super strict form with that much weight could actually cause some serious injuries. That's a lot to put on your core and lower back. 

But with that said every new guy should learn the proper form on all exercises. I've been lifting for 17 years and have a very good idea on how to cheat and still get good results. Takes time to learn and perfect.


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## BiologicalChemist

Yup ^ what he said. Takes a long time to find your form. Cheating is fine if u cheat right...I like to go as heavy as I can to the point where I can still get the reps with the slight sway that allows me to still utilize good form and muscle contraction. After I've exhausted at least 3 or sometimes 4 very heavy sets like this I will then continue to drop the weights and do perfect form until failure. Also depends on the lift! ..it just sucks cuz Ecks probably warms up with my max...


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## Seeker

I never said anything in my opener about sacraficing form. Discretion is advised, my thread isn't about advising a free for all to go out and use shitty form on all your exercises. Like l stated, a little drive here, a little leg kick there is just adding another tool in the tool box that can help one rake their muscular development to another level. Using a little body English to power out a few more reps will help you push out a few more reps that you normally wouldn't have otherwise been able to do using " too strict form" it has most definitely helped me over the years and just about every other advanced lifter I know. Like  my last statement. To cheat or not to cheat? YES and NO


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## Milo

I lift with a twisting jerking motion at all times. It's physics people GET ON BOARD!!


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## Rip

I wonder the people who do cheat ever really develop the strength to do it without cheating. Do they isolate and contract the muscle with that weight? I see guys doing cable lateral raises, using their whole body and winding up before yanking the weight. They're never going to develop the deltoids, and/or the deltoid strength until they do it with proper form isolating the deltoids.
Although, If I've recently increased the weight and have to strain to complete the last few reps, I might have to cheat temporarily to finish the set. I can cheat slightly on the concentric of the last few reps, then benefit from doing the eccentric slow and controlled, and as a result increase my strength for future workouts. 
_Rest/Pause_ technique can be very helpful at times too. 



Seeker said:


> I never said anything in my opener about sacrificing form. Discretion is advised, my thread isn't about advising a free for all to go out and use shitty form on all your exercises. Like l stated, a little drive here, a little leg kick there is just adding another tool in the tool box that can help one rake their muscular development to another level. Using a little body English to power out a few more reps will help you push out a few more reps that you normally wouldn't have otherwise been able to do using " too strict form" it has most definitely helped me over the years and just about every other advanced lifter I know. Like  my last statement. To cheat or not to cheat? YES and NO


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## Seeker

We





Rip said:


> I wonder the people who do cheat ever really develop the strength to do it without cheating. Do they isolate and contract the muscle with that weight? I see guys doing cable lateral raises, using their whole body and winding up before yanking the weight. They're never going to develop the deltoids, and/or the deltoid strength until they do it with proper form isolating the deltoids.
> Although, If I've recently increased the weight and have to strain to complete the last few reps, I might have to cheat temporarily to finish the set. I can cheat slightly on the concentric of the last few reps, then benefit from doing the eccentric slow and controlled, and as a result increase my strength for future workouts.
> _Rest/Pause_ technique can be very helpful at times too.



With lateral raises what I've learned to do  is a little leg drive in the beginning, and a slight swing towards the end has allowed me to use heavier weight. Lateral raises is an exercise I've used more as a very isolated, and yes, strict form exercise. But to overload it once and a while with heavier weight this is what ive done and oh man, shoulders felt like stiff rocks.


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## ECKSRATED

Gotta make sure u do your sets and reps with good form too. Those cheats reps are like a self spot to get a few more reps.


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## stonetag

There is definitely a line between cheating, and shitty form. One you walk away pumped, the other you walk away with a limp. For me, barbell curls are a must cheat lift.


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## ToolSteel

So... Seek does crossfit?


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## LeanHerm

My head hurts, I just do what my coach tells me to, I even have a hard time with that cause my leverages and form are so bad. But somehow move weight.


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## Fsuphisig

If you know what your doing, cheating is beneficial


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## DieYoungStrong

This board is full of cheaters.


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## Tren4Life

DieYoungStrong said:


> This board is full of cheaters.



Me me me me


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## LeanHerm

DieYoungStrong said:


> This board is full of cheaters.



#cheaters #teamnatty


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## saltylifter

I think my cable rows speak for itself when asked if I do strict form lol
Some days are more strict then others


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## NbleSavage

I cheat but I'm very strict about it.


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## jennerrator

it's all about goals......strict form here....


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## ECKSRATED

Jenner said:


> it's all about goals......strict form here....



u won't break form and cheat a little to get a few extra reps on a set? After u did say 10 reps with good form? Just curious. Not starting a war lololol


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## LeanHerm

Anywho, who likes hockey here?? The playoffs are cray cray


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## jennerrator

ECKSRATED said:


> u won't break form and cheat a little to get a few extra reps on a set? After u did say 10 reps with good form? Just curious. Not starting a war lololol



nope, lol.....not how I train is all  If I can't do a certain weight for full reps, I lower the weight or I use "pause" but I won't break form...that is more important to me than how much weight I'm lifting.


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## ECKSRATED

Jenner said:


> nope, lol.....not how I train is all  If I can't do a certain weight for full reps, I lower the weight or I use "pause" but I won't break form...that is more important to me than how much weight I'm lifting.



No that's totally fine. Lol. I was honestly curious. I like to get those few extra reps at the end and get that extra blood and pump. Shit burnssss but a good burn


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## Jada

I always stay in strict form, only time i say i cheat a little when im doing the last set of a super set and i go all out


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## Tren4Life

NbleSavage said:


> I cheat but I'm very strict about it.



CHEATING ? ?????? On me???

I got some special electrodes for you next weekend little lady.


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## NbleSavage

Tren4Life said:


> CHEATING ? ?????? On me???
> 
> I got some special electrodes for you next weekend little lady.



Love it when ye talk dirty...


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## jennerrator

ECKSRATED said:


> No that's totally fine. Lol. I was honestly curious. I like to get those few extra reps at the end and get that extra blood and pump. Shit burnssss but a good burn



I hear ya, I just don't do more reps than what I'm set up for..lol I'm a very structured person,  I've kept a written log for years. I will not walk into the gym without a routine for that training session.


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## saltylifter

If your not cheating you are not trying


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## Rip

The most I've done with good form is 40lbs. 


Seeker said:


> We
> 
> With lateral raises what I've learned to do  is a little leg drive in the beginning, and a slight swing towards the end has allowed me to use heavier weight. Lateral raises is an exercise I've used more as a very isolated, and yes, strict form exercise. But to overload it once and a while with heavier weight this is what ive done and oh man, shoulders felt like stiff rocks.


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## Jada

Wtf lmao^^


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## Itburnstopee

I saw a Instagram post recently, not going to bother searching for it because **** you, but the dude bassically went on to say how you can do things like pull with a slightly rounded back and not worry about messing up your spine. He had a whole reasoning about how you're able to pull more while still engaging the muscles and protecting your spine. I don't know how true it is but yeah.


This post doesn't help much......


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## Milo

Itburnstopee said:


> I saw a Instagram post recently, not going to bother searching for it because **** you, but the dude bassically went on to say how you can do things like pull with a slightly rounded back and not worry about messing up your spine. He had a whole reasoning about how you're able to pull more while still engaging the muscles and protecting your spine. I don't know how true it is but yeah.
> 
> 
> This post doesn't help much......



Upper back is supposed to be rounded on a conventional deadlift. As long as your lower is arched.


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## Rip

When I see people lifting with improper form I always feel like saying, "lower the weight and do it right." 
But, of course, I won't. LOL


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## Rip

It's like using momentum to do a lot of crunches. 12 to 20 done right would be more effective than 100 done wrong. 




Rip said:


> When I see people lifting with improper form I always feel like saying, "lower the weight and do it right."
> But, of course, I won't. LOL


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## ECKSRATED

Rip said:


> It's like using momentum to do a lot of crunches. 12 to 20 done right would be more effective than 100 done wrong.



What's wrong with doing those 12 to 20 right then adding some momentum to bang out a few extra?


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## DF

Any vid that I have watched with those big BB fuks.  They all do limited ROM & cheat like a mofo..... ALL OF THEM! Then again FUk them!


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## LeanHerm

My opinion is if it works for you then it works for you. The number one concern for me when lifting heavy shit, is not hurting myself. That's what everyone's number  1 concern should be. Then again most people just want to be jacked, strong or both. That's also why people shoot massive abouts of jewce in themselves


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## LeanHerm

Prime example, last year went to a meet and uncle Snake was there. My man had on some run dmc Adidas kicks on straight out of 1982. His form was so different then everyone's else there and was getting shit for it, but it works for him and he's Sexy is ****. It works for him and he killed it, whether it's right or wrong, it's right for him and works for him, so, to say there are a right way and wrong way is complete Bullshit. 

My form is shit, my deadlift is so bad, but it works for me. That's how it goes.


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## jennerrator

lol, round and round we go................................................


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## DF

Jenner said:


> lol, round and round we go................................................



Shut it Jenn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jennerrator

DF said:


> Shut it Jenn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



lmao..................................................................


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## SFGiants

Cheat Rows are great!


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## Rip

For me it would be pointless, but it's a personal choice.  


ECKSRATED said:


> What's wrong with doing those 12 to 20 right then adding some momentum to bang out a few extra?


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## Milo

Oh hogwash with all this personal choice crap people. Sounds like a gay pride campaign. 
Bottom line is that cheating the last few reps results in greater muscular stimulation, which in turn translates into greater muscular growth! The only personal choice here is how effective you want your workout to be.


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## ECKSRATED

Milo said:


> Oh hogwash with all this personal choice crap people. Sounds like a gay pride campaign.
> Bottom line is that cheating the last few reps results in greater muscular stimulation, which in turn translates into greater muscular growth! The only personal choice here is how effective you want your workout to be.



I agree. Well said.


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## ECKSRATED

LeanHerm said:


> Prime example, last year went to a meet and uncle Snake was there. My man had on some run dmc Adidas kicks on straight out of 1982. His form was so different then everyone's else there and was getting shit for it, but it works for him and he's Sexy is ****. It works for him and he killed it, whether it's right or wrong, it's right for him and works for him, so, to say there are a right way and wrong way is complete Bullshit.
> 
> My form is shit, my deadlift is so bad, but it works for me. That's how it goes.



Sumo is gonna work for u even better after this meet


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## LeanHerm

Milo said:


> Oh hogwash with all this personal choice crap people. Sounds like a gay pride campaign.
> Bottom line is that cheating the last few reps results in greater muscular stimulation, which in turn translates into greater muscular growth! The only personal choice here is how effective you want your workout to be.



Any scientific proof to prove your assumption. Yeah, that's right it's just an assumption, since this is a gay pride cock fest


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## LeanHerm

ECKSRATED said:


> Sumo is gonna work for u even better after this meet



Sorry pob already said no lmao


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## Milo

LeanHerm said:


> Any scientific proof to prove your assumption. Yeah, that's right it's just an assumption, since this is a gay pride cock fest



I don't actually. And I'm not going to look for one either because whether you agree with my statement or not affects me in exactly no way whatsoever. If you think my statement that muscular stimulation results in muscular growth is an assumption then I'm not even going to waste my time spelling out PE 101 to you. I have never met a dude with a huge back that treated the weights like a pussy. It's everyone's right to train how they like. But saying that forcing reps is not beneficial is plain stupid.


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## saltylifter

I think the proof would be behind all the professional  bodybuilders dating back to to dinosaurs when they we re curling rock and shoulder pressing baby trex and on there last few reps cheating to get the max blood flow and pump deep inside the muscle. 

How can u say cheating doesn't help?
The proof is out there that it does.
Ya don't cheat with every damn rep, keep good form and once u start struggling cheat to get more forced reps out..

I Wana see the scientific proof that cheating doesn't help.

And frankly there are hundreds of articles that shows it does..

Gay pride lol


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## Runningwild

saltylifter said:


> I think the proof would be behind all the professional  bodybuilders dating back to to dinosaurs when they we re curling rock and shoulder pressing baby trex and on there last few reps cheating to get the max blood flow and pump deep inside the muscle.
> 
> How can u say cheating doesn't help?
> The proof is out there that it does.
> Ya don't cheat with every damn rep, keep good form and once u start struggling cheat to get more forced reps out..
> 
> I Wana see the scientific proof that cheating doesn't help.
> 
> And frankly there are hundreds of articles that shows it does..
> 
> Gay pride lol




Couldn't agree more, there is tons of proof out there regarding cheating.  I think before you start to cheat you should have a good foundation and knowledge of doing the exercise with good form but then use cheat reps as a tool to push you past where you are currently.  People that don't think it is beneficial I think have a big misunderstanding of lifting and bodybuilding on a fundamental level.  When you lift and you get a pump do you think that you did something wrong, no, you think Damn that felt good because you know that you are hitting the muscle just right and when you are able to get a few cheat reps at the end beyond failure this is only amplified


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## Tren4Life

Milo said:


> Upper back is supposed to be rounded on a conventional deadlift. As long as your lower is arched.



I beg to differ.  It's definitely one way to do it but it's not supposed to be rounded. 

Ever heard of the lifters wedge?


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## Milo

Tren4Life said:


> I beg to differ.  It's definitely one way to do it but it's not supposed to be rounded.
> 
> Ever heard of the lifters wedge?



Please explain. Never heard of it.
However this is one aspect where it IS personal preference. We're now talking about individually unique leverages.


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## jennerrator

Anybody can get "Something " from "Anything" but I want more than "Something"


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## Milo

Jenner said:


> Anybody can get "Something " from "Anything" but I want more than "Something"



So do cheat reps.:32 (18):


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## jennerrator

Lol, l'll just work harder......


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## PillarofBalance

Milo said:


> Please explain. Never heard of it.
> However this is one aspect where it IS personal preference. We're now talking about individually unique leverages.



Its the same cue every coach gives their lifter. Tuck the shoulder blades into your back pocket is my version and there are countless others. 

The point is to cause the lats and rhomboids to tighten. This brings the chest up.

You won't see rounding in the upper back when done properly by a lifter whose femur and or humerus is in normal proportion.

Which is pretty much never because the vitruvian man doesn't truly exist.

Each lifter has slightly different leverages.  Wedging yourself under the bar is how you get speed. Many ways it's accomplished.

Probably one of the most bizarre lifters in this regard is KK. His back is severely rounded and he is one of the top deadlifters in the world.

Both Tool and DYS have interesting leverages for dl as well but I have both of them approaching the bar entirely different. 

T4L mentions a cue used by a guy named McGill. Smart man.  He was working with Brian Carroll on a back pain issue. This is where it came into play for him.  It was a mistake Carroll was making with technique that was causing the issue and McGill quickly corrected it.

Carroll looks up hard when he pulls even at lockout. Round your shoulder forward and snap your head back. Don't feel good does it. Now put 700lbs in your hands and a dl suit that compresses your soul on.  Amplified pain.  By getting thoracic extension his pain is relieved.

So when pulling rounded it's important to keep the spine and neck neutral and then at lockout look downward. Not straight down. 

While rounded the upper back must be strong too of course. There is slack yes, but it's contracted in that position.

Generally I don't jump right into this with a newer lifter.  It's a more intermediate to advanced technique.  Gotta play to the best leverage for that individual.

The text book form doesn't actually exist.


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## DieYoungStrong

The fact that there needs to be a scientific study on everything just pisses me off. 

Look at how the people who are bigger and stronger then you lift. The ones in your gym you see everyday. Not some YouTube vid on your favorite BBer who is probably lying about his training anyways. Watch the difference in how underwear model looking physique guys train and how guys who are built like brick shithouses train.


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## jennerrator

Lol, that's why these threads are pointless and stupid as fuuuk to argue about. ..simple solution "you do you, I'll do me"


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## Seeker

Jenner said:


> Lol, that's why these threads are pointless and stupid as fuuuk to argue about. ..simple solution "you do you, I'll do me"


Oh come now, Jen. Be nice to my thread. It has a valid learning point to it.


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## PillarofBalance

Milo said:


> I don't actually. And I'm not going to look for one either because whether you agree with my statement or not affects me in exactly no way whatsoever. If you think my statement that muscular stimulation results in muscular growth is an assumption then I'm not even going to waste my time spelling out PE 101 to you. I have never met a dude with a huge back that treated the weights like a pussy. It's everyone's right to train how they like. But saying that forcing reps is not beneficial is plain stupid.



Take a joke


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## jennerrator

Lol, discussion is great....stressing and arguing is unnecessary. ..that's all I'm saying. I appreciate the thread because it's nice to see what others do for sure.


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## Seeker

...and that is why I mentioned from the beginning that it depends on the individual, the training, the situation, the level of training, and the eventual goal. Jen I think where you are at and your goals what you're doing is the correct method. You have no need to sway or change.  Some of the arguments in this thread  are valid and some are not.


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## Tren4Life

Milo said:


> Please explain. Never heard of it.
> However this is one aspect where it IS personal preference. We're now talking about individually unique leverages.



How about a vid.


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## PillarofBalance

I think seek got a hold of t4l's spoon!!!


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## PillarofBalance

Tren4Life said:


> How about a vid.



Exact same thing my guys had me start doing a few weeks ago and suddenly the bar started to fly again.  Where the **** were you with this shit a couple months ago? I thought we were boys and looked out ya know? Haha good post


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## Tren4Life

PillarofBalance said:


> Exact same thing my guys had me start doing a few weeks ago and suddenly the bar started to fly again.  Where the **** were you with this shit a couple months ago? I thought we were boys and looked out ya know? Haha good post



I can't give away all my secrets


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## PillarofBalance

Tren4Life said:


> I can't give away all my secrets



Um. You posted a video.  Need me to delete your secret? Lol


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## Tren4Life

PillarofBalance said:


> Um. You posted a video.  Need me to delete your secret? Lol



Nah dude. I can't pull for shit , I might as well try to help someone else get better.


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## thqmas

The answer was in the original post: "Yes, and no.". That's all.

Good post Seeker. Very nice thread to read.

Just need to remember that "cheating" is not equal to "fu*king up your body"


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## Milo

PillarofBalance said:


> Its the same cue every coach gives their lifter. Tuck the shoulder blades into your back pocket is my version and there are countless others.
> 
> The point is to cause the lats and rhomboids to tighten. This brings the chest up.
> 
> You won't see rounding in the upper back when done properly by a lifter whose femur and or humerus is in normal proportion.
> 
> Which is pretty much never because the vitruvian man doesn't truly exist.
> 
> Each lifter has slightly different leverages.  Wedging yourself under the bar is how you get speed. Many ways it's accomplished.
> 
> Probably one of the most bizarre lifters in this regard is KK. His back is severely rounded and he is one of the top deadlifters in the world.
> 
> Both Tool and DYS have interesting leverages for dl as well but I have both of them approaching the bar entirely different.
> 
> T4L mentions a cue used by a guy named McGill. Smart man.  He was working with Brian Carroll on a back pain issue. This is where it came into play for him.  It was a mistake Carroll was making with technique that was causing the issue and McGill quickly corrected it.
> 
> Carroll looks up hard when he pulls even at lockout. Round your shoulder forward and snap your head back. Don't feel good does it. Now put 700lbs in your hands and a dl suit that compresses your soul on.  Amplified pain.  By getting thoracic extension his pain is relieved.
> 
> So when pulling rounded it's important to keep the spine and neck neutral and then at lockout look downward. Not straight down.
> 
> While rounded the upper back must be strong too of course. There is slack yes, but it's contracted in that position.
> 
> Generally I don't jump right into this with a newer lifter.  It's a more intermediate to advanced technique.  Gotta play to the best leverage for that individual.
> 
> The text book form doesn't actually exist.



Thanks for the write up. Very helpful.
However would you agree that a rounded upper back decreases the overall range of motion for the pull? Every top level dead lifter I've ever seen has a fully rounded upper back. Some examples are Lilliebridge, Leaman, Hall, Magnusson, Urbank, and of course KK.


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## Tren4Life

Milo said:


> Thanks for the write up. Very helpful.
> However would you agree that a rounded upper back decreases the overall range of motion for the pull? Every top level dead lifter I've ever seen has a fully rounded upper back. Some examples are Lilliebridge, Leaman, Hall, Magnusson, Urbank, and of course KK.




Just remember when you pull rounded like that to put your lats in your front pocket. They can be tight either way


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## PillarofBalance

Milo said:


> Thanks for the write up. Very helpful.
> However would you agree that a rounded upper back decreases the overall range of motion for the pull? Every top level dead lifter I've ever seen has a fully rounded upper back. Some examples are Lilliebridge, Leaman, Hall, Magnusson, Urbank, and of course KK.



Yes but not necessarily why they do it.  Like I said rounded but still contracted. Get what I mean by that?


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## brdkbr

I'm a big fan of light weights, good form, good focus...
this is how i train:


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## Milo

PillarofBalance said:


> Yes but not necessarily why they do it.  Like I said rounded but still contracted. Get what I mean by that?



Kind of. I've noticed that trying to bend the bar will also contract the lats. I guess if you can round your back while decreasing the range of motion and contract lats at the same time that would be ideal to me. Keeping the back arched just seems limiting to me.


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## Rip

me too. 
If I can do 12 reps, I'm going too light.
I would add 5 lbs. or less



Jenner said:


> nope, lol.....not how I train is all  If I can't do a certain weight for full reps, I lower the weight or I use "pause" but I won't break form...that is more important to me than how much weight I'm lifting.


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