# A basic guide to periodization



## MrRippedZilla

Periodization is something that is discussed all over the place yet I know many lifters are still confused by what it means, the principles behind it, what it involves and how it can help them make more progress in the gym.
This article will give you a simple introduction into the world of periodization and, hopefully, encourage you to implement it into your own training programme. Let's start with some principles...


*Supercompensation & fitness-fatigue theories*

One of the main goals of all training methods is to force the body to adapt by providing a strong enough stimulus. Adaptation is absolutely necessary if you want to enhance any aspect of physical performance/muscle growth. So for the bros who I see spouting crap like "you gotta mix it up and confuse the body bra, don't want it to adapt to what your doing" - let's cut that bullshit out right now. Without adaptation your not growing. Period. 

With that min-rant out of the way, let's look at how the body, as a dynamic system, is able to adapt to the stimulus we impose upon it. The process, known as the supercompensation cycle, can be summed up as thus:

*Baseline levels >> short term decline when stress added >> supercompensation past baseline IF given sufficient recovery time*

Now, if your next training session occurs BEFORE the supercompensation process is complete (you didn't give yourself enough recovery time), it starts a long term, downward trend that can eventually lead to overtraining syndrome (yes, it's a real condition broscientists). 
However, if your next session occurs just as the supercompensation is complete, then the cycle repeats itself and you reach another higher level on the way to gainzville. Some of you may already be getting a good sense of what periodization is designed to achieve...

As accurate as the supercompensation theory was, it left out a few practical details that prevented it from being optimal. This is where the fitness-fatigue theory tags in:

*Fitness - fatigue = results*

The fitness-fatigue theory agrees on the existence of the supercompensation cycle but adds that the level of supercompensation achieved (in other words, how much of an improvement you'll see) is the direct result of the difference between 2 other key indicators - the fitness (ie progress level, growth, etc) & fatigue states.
Training produces both positive (fitness) and negative (fatigue) effects. The negative can mask the positive over the short term but the positive is longer lasting. This means that if we can find a way to dissipate the accumulated fatigue, the full positive effects will show itself (aka maximum gains). This is the main goal of periodization, achieved by optimally organize your training schedule.

Both theories are compatible with each other but the key difference is related to the time scale. The supercompensation theory focuses on recovering & supercomping after each individual workout while the fitness-fatigue theory is all about minimizing the accumulated level of fatigue over a longer period time to allow the greater accumulation of fitness gains to reveal themselves. If you consider the fact that muscle growth is a long term process, this makes perfect sense.
The fitness-fatigue theory also takes into account the fact that different training sessions have different effects on fitness & fatigue. For example, high volume creates a less noticeable, but longer lasting, impact on both while high intensity creates a more noticeable, short term, delayed impact. This is something to keep in mind when optimizing your training schedule. 

What these key theories, and periodization in general, tell us is that it's important to pay attention not just to the effects of an acute training session but also to its after effects. To look at not only what's happening within/between each session but also at what's happening between phases of a long term training cycle - long term planning is the key to maximum growth.

Let's move on to discussing some of the main, individual, aspects of periodization... 


*Training load*

The training load refers to the total stress applied to the body in order to cause adaptation. Put simply:

*Training load = volume x intensity*

Volume usually refers to reps and intensity to weight but other content within the training load (exercise selection, exercise order, rep ranges, rest periods, RPEs, tempo, etc) does still need to be considered when coming up with your own schedule. This is due to the fact that stress is a result of the total work being done and how it's being accomplished; this isn't limited to just volume & intensity. 
For example, squats vs leg extensions. Both are quad dominant movements but that's where the similarities pretty much end. The squat is all about maximum effort & short duration with the stress being placed primarily on the nervous system. Leg extensions involve more time under tension placed of the targeted muscle group but, unless taken to failure, the neurological stress is fairly minimal. This leads us to...


*Neurological vs muscular stress*

Training places stress on both the nervous system and your muscles & surrounding tissues. In most cases, higher volume = more stress on the muscle while high intensity = more stress on the nervous system. 
High intensity training is one of the foundations of strength training in general while high volume training focuses more on muscle hypertrophy and tends to create a longer lasting increase in strength in comparison. This is due to the fact that we're relying on long term anatomical, rather than short term neurological, adaptations.

Neurological training, as most PLers will know, can be accomplished by training with maximum load (max effort method), submax load with max acceleration (dynamic effort method) and, to an extent, submax load repeated to failure (repeated effort method). All of these methods involve working within the 1-6 rep range and having 3-5min rest periods; nothing too surprising here. 

Hypertrophy training relies more on the repeated method with higher volume. Keep in mind that the repeated method only becomes neurologically taxing if taken to failure - you do NOT need to train to failure if the focus is primarily on muscle hypertrophy. 
This style of training usually involves 5-12 reps with 1-2 min rest periods. The rep range is dictated by that fact that we do need more volume to optimize muscle growth but still need to be working with heavy enough weight to achieve the level of adaptation that we're looking for.

I should briefly mention that you CAN optimize growth through high volume neurological training but, considering the systemic effects, it is not something that I would recommend to most. 


*Psychology*

Your state of mind plays a huge role when it comes to training. How pumped up you are, if your in the zone, etc factors into how much "drive" you'll be able to generate from your nervous system. 
This can be a good thing in that your ability to psyche yourself up for a lift will improve performance BUT it can also potentially backfire when we consider the fact that neural output represents the greatest level of stress on the body. Being in this mental "zone" isn't maintainable for the long term because your nervous system gets exhausted, which leads to hormones taking a down turn and pretty soon we find the entire system being completely & utterly ****ed (overtraining syndrome). 
This is just another factor that needs to be considered and cycled appropriately just like volume & intensity. Speaking of cycling...


*Key aspects of cycling*

Cycling, with regards to periodization, refers to varying the training load over time. I'm not going to go through all the ways of doing this since that would take a whole book to cover (literally) but suffice to say that it's focused on the relationship between volume & intensity and the main emphasis of the load's content. Here are the main types of periodization cycles:

*Linear* = most popular method of periodization, involves volume going up/intensity going down or visa versa

*Nonlinear/undulating* = volume is not inversely proportional to intensity like with the linear approach, you can have periods of both high intensity & volume, stable volume with increasing intensity, etc. 


Once we figure out the type of cycle we're looking for, then we consider how to organization & schedule that cycle. This can either be:

*Conjugated (sequential)* = training is organized to include separate, concentrated, blocks with a single focus, these blocks are alternated in a sequential fashion to develop all targeted areas of focus

*Concurrent (parallel)* = focus is on multiple areas, 1 area is given the most focus and any given time with this area being rotated over separate blocks, involves more of a distributed loading pattern


The content of the load is also related to the volume. For example, increasing the rep range = increased total volume = less neurological effect & increased muscular adaptation. The content, volume, intensity of the load all play a part in coming up with the right training schedule and can be referred to as either:

*Distributed* = volume equal over training period

*Concentrated* = volume in separate blocks over training period

All of these factors apply to short & long term training phases with the aim being to exploit the aftereffects of our training efforts. 


Then, believe it or not, we get even more specific when looking at loading schemes. I'm only going to cover a few basic models to give you an idea of what these schemes entail:

*Linear loading* = as discussed before it's all about high volume/low intensity & visa versa

*Step loading* = Load increases, stabilizes for a few sessions, then increases again

*Pendulum loading* = load distributed evenly across the training phase

*Pyramid loading* = Load increases to a peak, then decreases slightly before increasing again

*Wave loading* = As the name suggests, the load moves in a wave-like fashion from one emphasis to another (please don't make me add a diagram to show what a ****ing wave is, thanks)

None of these models are inherently superior to each other and, actually, one may be capable of overlapping & completely invalidating another depending on the circumstances. For example most people dismiss linear loading schemes for the long term but, for a short period of time like a week/month, it's perfectly workable and pretty close to identical to a wave load scheme.


Putting all of this together, you can see that we can get very creative in the way we implement periodization but it should always be tailored to the individual & their specific goals. 
For example, as an advanced athlete I could use a conjugated cycle based on 2 week pendulum loaded meso cycles focusing on 2 areas (lat & glute development, etc) or if your more of an intermediate lifter you could go with an 8 week concurrent, pyramid phase focusing on 4 specific areas or...you get the idea. 

In terms of figuring out what cycling method would be best for you, we still need to look at the final, arguably most vital, factor...


*Training experience*

Your level of experience is one of the main factors to consider when deciding how you should be training. Here is a basic guide that I've found to be applicable to most clients: 

Beginners
- Keep things simple and focus on progressive overload from session-to-session with a concurrent training plan that devotes time to improving multiple areas (increase mass across the board). 

Intermediates
- Progression moves away from a session-to-session basis (micro cycles) and the ability to focus on multiple areas diminishes. It now makes sense to focus on a few, specific areas with the goal of progressing on a week-to-week basis (meso cycle) while maintaining the progress made in non-focused areas with light, retaining loads. 

Advanced
- The conjugate system FTW because the amount of work required to achieve a specific goal at this stage is very high and you don't need any other unnecessary stimuli adding extra fatigue to the system. It also allows us to create a strong stimulus for adaptation over a longer period of time as we move away from the mesocycle progression focus of the intermediate level. 
- The superiority of the conjugate system for advanced athletes also helps us see why the fitness-fatigue theory is superior to the supercompensation theory alone. The supercompensation cycle by itself would have advanced athletes dropping volume & frequency to allow for complete recovery between sessions when, at this level, what it actually needed is MORE volume to force the body to adapt to a higher level and handle the newly increased level of training. 
- The conjugate system adds this extra volume, conditioning the body to handle it, while still being able to plan for repair & adaptation. 

As you can see, the idea is to slowly move towards specialization over time because, regardless of what your training for, you can either be really good at a few things or average at many things (crossfit anyone?). 
Irrespective of your training level, all of this is a simple application of the fitness-fatigue theory - stress, rest & adapt for maximum gainz.


*Conclusion*

Periodization isn't as complicated as most people make it out to be.
If we break it down, it's nothing more than a few basic principles put together to maximize adaptation by adding/removing different types of stimuli. By having a solid understanding of these principles, and spending some time figuring out what works for you, the word "plateau" will cease to exist when it comes to your progress & results.

Despite its length, this article is actually a basic guide and was never intended to be to be complete or too in depth for fear of adding to the confusion that is already out there. I MAY revisit the topic to cover some aspects in more depth (altering frequency/programming, overreaching period for optimal gains, etc) but don't bet on it happening anytime soon. 

Feel free to post up your own periodized schedules for feedback or to ask about anything discussed in the article that is still confusing you 

RippedZilla


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## NbleSavage

Great post, Zilla.


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## Bro Bundy

great post zilla


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## bsw5

Good info thanks


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## Runningwild

Appreciate the info, thanks!


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## halfwit

You are the man Zilla! Excellent write up!


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## PillarofBalance

Dude you're giving away our secrets lol

One of my pet peeves I must say, is guys who barely put in an effort for this constant fear of over training.  Yes overtraining is real but as you can see its pretty easy to avoid.  Don't so the same max effort shit day in and day out. Mix it up a bit.


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## MrRippedZilla

PillarofBalance said:


> Dude you're giving away our secrets lol
> 
> One of my pet peeves I must say, is guys who barely put in an effort for this constant fear of over training.  Yes overtraining is real but as you can see its pretty easy to avoid.  Don't so the same max effort shit day in and day out. Mix it up a bit.



I think lifters forget that it takes a while for overtraining syndrome to really set in and you usually "feel" it coming.
A few weeks of going balls to the wall, if programmed properly, would actually accelerate progress. Maxing out for months on end - different story.


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## Schredder

Great write up Zilla.  Well layed out!!


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## DreamChaser

This should be a sticky great post


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## Rip

"S.A.I.D. Principle"...Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands.



MrRippedZilla said:


> Periodization is something that is discussed all over the place yet I know many lifters are still confused by what it means, the principles behind it, what it involves and how it can help them make more progress in the gym.
> This article will give you a simple introduction into the world of periodization and, hopefully, encourage you to implement it into your own training programme. Let's start with some principles...
> 
> 
> *Supercompensation & fitness-fatigue theories*
> 
> One of the main goals of all training methods is to force the body to adapt by providing a strong enough stimulus. Adaptation is absolutely necessary if you want to enhance any aspect of physical performance/muscle growth. So for the bros who I see spouting crap like "you gotta mix it up and confuse the body bra, don't want it to adapt to what your doing" - let's cut that bullshit out right now. Without adaptation your not growing. Period.
> 
> With that min-rant out of the way, let's look at how the body, as a dynamic system, is able to adapt to the stimulus we impose upon it. The process, known as the supercompensation cycle, can be summed up as thus:
> 
> *Baseline levels >> short term decline when stress added >> supercompensation past baseline IF given sufficient recovery time*
> 
> Now, if your next training session occurs BEFORE the supercompensation process is complete (you didn't give yourself enough recovery time), it starts a long term, downward trend that can eventually lead to overtraining syndrome (yes, it's a real condition broscientists).
> However, if your next session occurs just as the supercompensation is complete, then the cycle repeats itself and you reach another higher level on the way to gainzville. Some of you may already be getting a good sense of what periodization is designed to achieve...
> 
> As accurate as the supercompensation theory was, it left out a few practical details that prevented it from being optimal. This is where the fitness-fatigue theory tags in:
> 
> *Fitness - fatigue = results*
> 
> The fitness-fatigue theory agrees on the existence of the supercompensation cycle but adds that the level of supercompensation achieved (in other words, how much of an improvement you'll see) is the direct result of the difference between 2 other key indicators - the fitness (ie progress level, growth, etc) & fatigue states.
> Training produces both positive (fitness) and negative (fatigue) effects. The negative can mask the positive over the short term but the positive is longer lasting. This means that if we can find a way to dissipate the accumulated fatigue, the full positive effects will show itself (aka maximum gains). This is the main goal of periodization, achieved by optimally organize your training schedule.
> 
> Both theories are compatible with each other but the key difference is related to the time scale. The supercompensation theory focuses on recovering & supercomping after each individual workout while the fitness-fatigue theory is all about minimizing the accumulated level of fatigue over a longer period time to allow the greater accumulation of fitness gains to reveal themselves. If you consider the fact that muscle growth is a long term process, this makes perfect sense.
> The fitness-fatigue theory also takes into account the fact that different training sessions have different effects on fitness & fatigue. For example, high volume creates a less noticeable, but longer lasting, impact on both while high intensity creates a more noticeable, short term, delayed impact. This is something to keep in mind when optimizing your training schedule.
> 
> What these key theories, and periodization in general, tell us is that it's important to pay attention not just to the effects of an acute training session but also to its after effects. To look at not only what's happening within/between each session but also at what's happening between phases of a long term training cycle - long term planning is the key to maximum growth.
> 
> Let's move on to discussing some of the main, individual, aspects of periodization...
> 
> 
> *Training load*
> 
> The training load refers to the total stress applied to the body in order to cause adaptation. Put simply:
> 
> *Training load = volume x intensity*
> 
> Volume usually refers to reps and intensity to weight but other content within the training load (exercise selection, exercise order, rep ranges, rest periods, RPEs, tempo, etc) does still need to be considered when coming up with your own schedule. This is due to the fact that stress is a result of the total work being done and how it's being accomplished; this isn't limited to just volume & intensity.
> For example, squats vs leg extensions. Both are quad dominant movements but that's where the similarities pretty much end. The squat is all about maximum effort & short duration with the stress being placed primarily on the nervous system. Leg extensions involve more time under tension placed of the targeted muscle group but, unless taken to failure, the neurological stress is fairly minimal. This leads us to...
> 
> 
> *Neurological vs muscular stress*
> 
> Training places stress on both the nervous system and your muscles & surrounding tissues. In most cases, higher volume = more stress on the muscle while high intensity = more stress on the nervous system.
> High intensity training is one of the foundations of strength training in general while high volume training focuses more on muscle hypertrophy and tends to create a longer lasting increase in strength in comparison. This is due to the fact that we're relying on long term anatomical, rather than short term neurological, adaptations.
> 
> Neurological training, as most PLers will know, can be accomplished by training with maximum load (max effort method), submax load with max acceleration (dynamic effort method) and, to an extent, submax load repeated to failure (repeated effort method). All of these methods involve working within the 1-6 rep range and having 3-5min rest periods; nothing too surprising here.
> 
> Hypertrophy training relies more on the repeated method with higher volume. Keep in mind that the repeated method only becomes neurologically taxing if taken to failure - you do NOT need to train to failure if the focus is primarily on muscle hypertrophy.
> This style of training usually involves 5-12 reps with 1-2 min rest periods. The rep range is dictated by that fact that we do need more volume to optimize muscle growth but still need to be working with heavy enough weight to achieve the level of adaptation that we're looking for.
> 
> I should briefly mention that you CAN optimize growth through high volume neurological training but, considering the systemic effects, it is not something that I would recommend to most.
> 
> 
> *Psychology*
> 
> Your state of mind plays a huge role when it comes to training. How pumped up you are, if your in the zone, etc factors into how much "drive" you'll be able to generate from your nervous system.
> This can be a good thing in that your ability to psyche yourself up for a lift will improve performance BUT it can also potentially backfire when we consider the fact that neural output represents the greatest level of stress on the body. Being in this mental "zone" isn't maintainable for the long term because your nervous system gets exhausted, which leads to hormones taking a down turn and pretty soon we find the entire system being completely & utterly ****ed (overtraining syndrome).
> This is just another factor that needs to be considered and cycled appropriately just like volume & intensity. Speaking of cycling...
> 
> 
> *Key aspects of cycling*
> 
> Cycling, with regards to periodization, refers to varying the training load over time. I'm not going to go through all the ways of doing this since that would take a whole book to cover (literally) but suffice to say that it's focused on the relationship between volume & intensity and the main emphasis of the load's content. Here are the main types of periodization cycles:
> 
> *Linear* = most popular method of periodization, involves volume going up/intensity going down or visa versa
> 
> *Nonlinear/undulating* = volume is not inversely proportional to intensity like with the linear approach, you can have periods of both high intensity & volume, stable volume with increasing intensity, etc.
> 
> 
> Once we figure out the type of cycle we're looking for, then we consider how to organization & schedule that cycle. This can either be:
> 
> *Conjugated (sequential)* = training is organized to include separate, concentrated, blocks with a single focus, these blocks are alternated in a sequential fashion to develop all targeted areas of focus
> 
> *Concurrent (parallel)* = focus is on multiple areas, 1 area is given the most focus and any given time with this area being rotated over separate blocks, involves more of a distributed loading pattern
> 
> 
> The content of the load is also related to the volume. For example, increasing the rep range = increased total volume = less neurological effect & increased muscular adaptation. The content, volume, intensity of the load all play a part in coming up with the right training schedule and can be referred to as either:
> 
> *Distributed* = volume equal over training period
> 
> *Concentrated* = volume in separate blocks over training period
> 
> All of these factors apply to short & long term training phases with the aim being to exploit the aftereffects of our training efforts.
> 
> 
> Then, believe it or not, we get even more specific when looking at loading schemes. I'm only going to cover a few basic models to give you an idea of what these schemes entail:
> 
> *Linear loading* = as discussed before it's all about high volume/low intensity & visa versa
> 
> *Step loading* = Load increases, stabilizes for a few sessions, then increases again
> 
> *Pendulum loading* = load distributed evenly across the training phase
> 
> *Pyramid loading* = Load increases to a peak, then decreases slightly before increasing again
> 
> *Wave loading* = As the name suggests, the load moves in a wave-like fashion from one emphasis to another (please don't make me add a diagram to show what a ****ing wave is, thanks)
> 
> None of these models are inherently superior to each other and, actually, one may be capable of overlapping & completely invalidating another depending on the circumstances. For example most people dismiss linear loading schemes for the long term but, for a short period of time like a week/month, it's perfectly workable and pretty close to identical to a wave load scheme.
> 
> 
> Putting all of this together, you can see that we can get very creative in the way we implement periodization but it should always be tailored to the individual & their specific goals.
> For example, as an advanced athlete I could use a conjugated cycle based on 2 week pendulum loaded meso cycles focusing on 2 areas (lat & glute development, etc) or if your more of an intermediate lifter you could go with an 8 week concurrent, pyramid phase focusing on 4 specific areas or...you get the idea.
> 
> In terms of figuring out what cycling method would be best for you, we still need to look at the final, arguably most vital, factor...
> 
> 
> *Training experience*
> 
> Your level of experience is one of the main factors to consider when deciding how you should be training. Here is a basic guide that I've found to be applicable to most clients:
> 
> Beginners
> - Keep things simple and focus on progressive overload from session-to-session with a concurrent training plan that devotes time to improving multiple areas (increase mass across the board).
> 
> Intermediates
> - Progression moves away from a session-to-session basis (micro cycles) and the ability to focus on multiple areas diminishes. It now makes sense to focus on a few, specific areas with the goal of progressing on a week-to-week basis (meso cycle) while maintaining the progress made in non-focused areas with light, retaining loads.
> 
> Advanced
> - The conjugate system FTW because the amount of work required to achieve a specific goal at this stage is very high and you don't need any other unnecessary stimuli adding extra fatigue to the system. It also allows us to create a strong stimulus for adaptation over a longer period of time as we move away from the mesocycle progression focus of the intermediate level.
> - The superiority of the conjugate system for advanced athletes also helps us see why the fitness-fatigue theory is superior to the supercompensation theory alone. The supercompensation cycle by itself would have advanced athletes dropping volume & frequency to allow for complete recovery between sessions when, at this level, what it actually needed is MORE volume to force the body to adapt to a higher level and handle the newly increased level of training.
> - The conjugate system adds this extra volume, conditioning the body to handle it, while still being able to plan for repair & adaptation.
> 
> As you can see, the idea is to slowly move towards specialization over time because, regardless of what your training for, you can either be really good at a few things or average at many things (crossfit anyone?).
> Irrespective of your training level, all of this is a simple application of the fitness-fatigue theory - stress, rest & adapt for maximum gainz.
> 
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> Periodization isn't as complicated as most people make it out to be.
> If we break it down, it's nothing more than a few basic principles put together to maximize adaptation by adding/removing different types of stimuli. By having a solid understanding of these principles, and spending some time figuring out what works for you, the word "plateau" will cease to exist when it comes to your progress & results.
> 
> Despite its length, this article is actually a basic guide and was never intended to be to be complete or too in depth for fear of adding to the confusion that is already out there. I MAY revisit the topic to cover some aspects in more depth (altering frequency/programming, overreaching period for optimal gains, etc) but don't bet on it happening anytime soon.
> 
> Feel free to post up your own periodized schedules for feedback or to ask about anything discussed in the article that is still confusing you
> 
> RippedZilla


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## BiologicalChemist

Great read zilla. Sticky worthy.


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## DF

Beyond my level of comprehension.


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## MrRippedZilla

DF said:


> Beyond my level of comprehension.



Lol believe it or not I did try my best to dumb it down to the essentials


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## Bro Bundy

MrRippedZilla said:


> Lol believe it or not I did try my best to dumb it down to the essentials



next time do sped class edition.


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## DF

MrRippedZilla said:


> Lol believe it or not I did try my best to dumb it down to the essentials



Think on the short bus level.  I'll take another stab at it cause it looks very informative.  I just need some terms defined & Im sure I'll grasp the deal.


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## Bro Bundy

DF said:


> Think on the short bus level.  I'll take another stab at it cause it looks very informative.  I just need some terms defined & Im sure I'll grasp the deal.



I used to love fukking them short bus girls


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## zyad00

thanks......


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## MrRippedZilla

tenaciousa said:


> Have discussed this at length with my Endo friends. They don't get it.
> 
> Curious as to whether you or POB have seen differences in males or females, gear or not?  Just curious.



With females, I find that the menstrual cycle is an additional factor that needs to be taken into consideration.
For estrogen dominant women, I like to go with the higher intensity work during the follicular phase with more emphasis on recovery/moderate volume in the luteal so that we end up with 2 week meso cycles.
Progesterone dominant women on the other hand tend to have less of a disparity between the 2 phases (slightly lower intensity in the follicular, less of a crash in the luteal) and do just fine on DUP style programming with built in autoregulation. 

For geared females, most of the impact from the menstrual cycle is eliminated but a few key differences between the sexes does still need to be taken into consideration. Specifically, I've found that women tend to handle much higher training volumes than men when intensity is controlled and a lot of this has to do with substrate utilization (they tend to preserve glycogen stores better than men, even as the intensity is creeping up). 

We can break this down even further when considering the impact of BC pills (depends on the type), whether she is pre/peri/post menopausal, etc. As you can tell, the picture becomes a lot more complicated 

For men, the main difference between natural vs geared would be the fact that geared allows them to get away with much less "optimization". Put simply, plenty of guys training like shit (poor form, random sessions, no real focus, etc) and still get good results - AAS is awesome. 
Of course they would get BETTER results if they did optimize their training but I digress...


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## PillarofBalance

^^^ yes on the volume.  Warm ups is a great place to get some of that too. Very small jumps up to the working sets helps quite a bit.


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## thqmas

How did I miss this post? Just beautiful. I almost shed a tear.

In regards of over-training: I over trained ounce. It took about 10 months till it hit me, I kept with it for a month or so. I dropped everything except the test, the Insomnia was horrible! Performance was going downhill. It took time to recover...

I love when guys at the gym say "Don't over train bro" - They have no idea how much I worked hard to over train and they think that doing curls to failure will? Ha!


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## TheHercWithAMouth

> I love when guys at the gym say "Don't over train bro" - They have no idea how much I worked hard to over train and they think that doing curls to failure will? Ha!



I always credit Mark Rippetoe with that shitty addition to gym culture. Don't wanna do more than 5 x 5 because the big bad overtraining boogeyman will steal all your gainz. But drinking a galon of whole milk a day will make him go away.


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## DocDePanda187123

TheHercWithAMouth said:


> I always credit Mark Rippetoe with that shitty addition to gym culture. Don't wanna do more than 5 x 5 because the big bad overtraining boogeyman will steal all your gainz. But drinking a galon of whole milk a day will make him go away.



How is it someone's fault that their words weren't understood correctly or were taken out of context?


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## automatondan

MrRippedZilla said:


> I think lifters forget that it takes a while for overtraining syndrome to really set in and you usually "feel" it coming.
> A few weeks of going balls to the wall, if programmed properly, would actually accelerate progress. Maxing out for months on end - different story.



I think laziness has become an epidemic. Nobody wants to work anymore.... To work for something is unfair....


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## gymrat827

all very well said.


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## MrRippedZilla

automatonDan said:


> I think laziness has become an epidemic. Nobody wants to work anymore.... To work for something is unfair....



Laziness has always been around - people just get more creative in ways to avoid working hard & achieving their goals. Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but don’t nobody want to lift no heavy-ass weights...


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## MarvelousChester

This is a great post, it's weird that it isn't a sticky. Anyways, sorry for necrobumping.

I wanted to create a new thread but since you offered your help at the end of the OP I thought it may be better to start here. I know this is an old post but since you are still active I thought it would be fine.

I read the whole OP twice and I still couldn't find the answer to this question:

Is overreaching necessary for supercompensation to occur? Should one do more volume than that from which the body can recover before supercompensation can take place?

To give an example, let's say I do 20 sets of chest per week in the last two weeks of my meso cycle and that's as much as I can do before running into recovery issues. The last week of my meso cycle before the deload (week or whatever), should I do 25 or do I stick to 20?


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## CJ

You can do either, there's two schools of thoughts on this. One is steady progression over time, the other is maximize the meso.

Camp 1 would be something like 18,18,18,18,18, deload. 

Camp 2 would be something like 14,16,18,20,22(functional overreaching), deload.

Both average 18 sets per week over the meso, but build fatigue differently. Workouts can start to get lonnnnng if you go the 2nd route. 

You should still build/dissipate fatigue workout to workout, and thus have supercompensation. The deload serves to drop accumulated fatigue levels, so you can express your new levels of fitness.


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## MrRippedZilla

MarvelousChester said:


> *This is a great post, it's weird that it isn't a sticky.* Anyways, sorry for necrobumping.
> 
> Is overreaching necessary for supercompensation to occur? Should one do more volume than that from which the body can recover before supercompensation can take place?
> 
> To give an example, let's say I do 20 sets of chest per week in the last two weeks of my meso cycle and that's as much as I can do before running into recovery issues. The last week of my meso cycle before the deload (week or whatever), should I do 25 or do I stick to 20?


I agree with the bold and encourage you to express your outrage at this not being a sticky to the staff members (start with PillarofBalance and work your way down). 

Overreaching is an optimal way for supercompensation to occur via training. It is not the only way to achieve it overall and therefore it isn't "necessary". You can get a supercompensatory response with a more linear pattern as long as you program an underreaching period (deload, etc) to allow you to recover and achieve said supercompensated response. Timing becomes more difficult with this latter approach but still, it is achievable. 

In the overreaching phase, I want a set number that leads to a maximum regression of 10% accumulated over a period of 1-3 weeks. If that number is 20, then cool, stick to 20. Then cut volume down by 50% (seriously) for 1-2 weeks of deloading. The length of the deload will correlate with the level of performance regression. Rinse and repeat. This is one of my preferred methods. Classic 2 factor theory - training stimuli is higher than normal = fatigue is higher than normal = recovery needs to be more than normal = supercompensation is better than normal. Also a classic example of block training - 3 on/1 off. 

Trivia: I actually did start to write another article specifically about how planned "overtraining" can be beneficial, which is why you see a lack of detail on that specific topic in this thread. I might get back to it if the staff decide to bribe me with a sticky for this baby


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## gymrat827

MarvelousChester said:


> This is a great post, it's weird that it isn't a sticky. Anyways, sorry for necrobumping.



it is now.....


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## MarvelousChester

MrRippedZilla said:


> I agree with the bold and encourage you to express your outrage at this not being a sticky to the staff members (start with PillarofBalance and work your way down).
> 
> Overreaching is an optimal way for supercompensation to occur via training. It is not the only way to achieve it overall and therefore it isn't "necessary". You can get a supercompensatory response with a more linear pattern as long as you program an underreaching period (deload, etc) to allow you to recover and achieve said supercompensated response. Timing becomes more difficult with this latter approach but still, it is achievable.
> 
> In the overreaching phase, I want a set number that leads to a maximum regression of 10% accumulated over a period of 1-3 weeks. If that number is 20, then cool, stick to 20. Then cut volume down by 50% (seriously) for 1-2 weeks of deloading. The length of the deload will correlate with the level of performance regression. Rinse and repeat. This is one of my preferred methods. Classic 2 factor theory - training stimuli is higher than normal = fatigue is higher than normal = recovery needs to be more than normal = supercompensation is better than normal. Also a classic example of block training - 3 on/1 off.
> 
> Trivia: I actually did start to write another article specifically about how planned "overtraining" can be beneficial, which is why you see a lack of detail on that specific topic in this thread. I might get back to it if the staff decide to bribe me with a sticky for this baby



Makes sense. If you do go down the overreaching route, then it becomes easier to know when those deloads need to be. If you've been overreaching for the past 3 weeks (your performance dropped or you can't get past a plateau that you definitely should) then you know for sure that you need a deload, but overreaching is not necessary for supercompensation to occur.

As a related question: on Monday I started my first deload, I dropped intensity and volume by half. Now assuming that the amount of reps that I do stay the same, should I expect to increase the intensity of most or all of my lifts? If I can't do that, does that mean that I'm not fully recovered and I should keep going with the deload?

Thanks for the clear reply. I'm glad this is a sticky now.


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## CJ

MarvelousChester said:


> ... If you do go down the overreaching route, then it becomes easier to know when those deloads need to be. If you've been overreaching for the past 3 weeks (your performance dropped or you can't get past a plateau that you definitely should) then you know for sure that you need a deload....



I think that overreaching for 3 straight weeks is probably too much, maybe it should be just the week before the deload. That's a lot of fatigue you'll be building. 

But I define overreaching as meaning a session that you can't recover from before the next session occurs, so three straight weeks of that would be counterproductive in my opinion. 

Maybe I'm wrong.


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## MrRippedZilla

MarvelousChester said:


> As a related question: on Monday I started my first deload, I dropped intensity and volume by half. Now assuming that the amount of reps that I do stay the same, should I expect to increase the intensity of most or all of my lifts? If I can't do that, does that mean that I'm not fully recovered and I should keep going with the deload?
> 
> Thanks for the clear reply. I'm glad this is a sticky now.


In general, I don't like dropping intensity for deloads. Keep it the same, slash volume drastically (20-50%). It's a better way of dissipating the built up fatigue that "hides" your progress. Coming off the deload you should expect, at a minimum, to be back to where you were before the overreaching phase started regressing your numbers. Ideally, you want to be in a better position (supercompensate) but progress isn't constant for advanced lifters. Basically - if you're back to lifting what you normally lift before the regression started, then the deload did its job. 



CJ275 said:


> I think that overreaching for 3 straight weeks is probably too much, maybe it should be just the week before the deload. That's a lot of fatigue you'll be building.
> 
> But I define overreaching as meaning a session that you can't recover from before the next session occurs, so three straight weeks of that would be counterproductive in my opinion.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong.


As long as intensity doesn't regress more than 10%, 3 weeks is fine. It may require a 2 week vs 1 week deload is all. Deload period is correleated to the level of overreach and regression remember. Of course all of this depends on what exactly your training split is to begin with. Key point here is that I wouldn't start with a 3 week overreach for someone who's never really overreached before.  

Also keep in mind that full recovery from session to session isn't necessary on a normal training cycle. Nevermind an overreaching phase. That's the mistake the brosplit dudes make - they think full recovery is needed before hitting the muscle again. They're wrong.


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## MarvelousChester

CJ275 said:


> I think that overreaching for 3 straight weeks is probably too much, maybe it should be just the week before the deload. That's a lot of fatigue you'll be building.
> 
> But I define overreaching as meaning a session that you can't recover from before the next session occurs, so three straight weeks of that would be counterproductive in my opinion.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong.


I didn't meant doing 50 sets a week but doing something moderate and, like RippedZilla said, doing something to cause something like a 10% performance drop. I apologise for not being clear on that.


MrRippedZilla said:


> In general, I don't like dropping intensity for deloads. Keep it the same, slash volume drastically (20-50%). It's a better way of dissipating the built up fatigue that "hides" your progress. Coming off the deload you should expect, at a minimum, to be back to where you were before the overreaching phase started regressing your numbers. Ideally, you want to be in a better position (supercompensate) but progress isn't constant for advanced lifters. Basically - if you're back to lifting what you normally lift before the regression started, then the deload did its job.
> 
> 
> As long as intensity doesn't regress more than 10%, 3 weeks is fine. It may require a 2 week vs 1 week deload is all. Deload period is correleated to the level of overreach and regression remember. Of course all of this depends on what exactly your training split is to begin with. Key point here is that I wouldn't start with a 3 week overreach for someone who's never really overreached before.


Understood. It's good to be able to judge if the deload did it's job. I was actually wondering if I should extend my deload to 2 weeks, but I think I'm going to go ahead and see how next week goes.

About dropping weights and volume, I did both only because I had been training 6x a week for 12+ weeks and never took a day off. I though doing that would make the deload a bit more effective. Next time I'll try only dropping volume and see how it works out.

You are saying it would be more efficient to overreach for 3 weeks and do a 2 week deload instead of overreaching for 1 and start with the next meso sooner?


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## chenmomo

Gread post, thank you so much


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## dreamscraper

When things shutdown for COVID I realize I was pretty much forced to do Step Loading because of the weights and increments I have in my home gym. I hit a lifetime PR on overhead press. 
Now a few months of going back to the gym I have actually regressed. I think step loading is incredibly underrated because it is just hard to mess up. We have this bias to want to do something more complicated, coaches have an even bigger bias to want to add complexity.  In a modern gym with all these weights available, it is just so hard to stick with the same weight and not want to feel what the other weights feel like.

Keep doing the same weight until it is easy and then make a big jump up, repeat.


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## rawdeal

MarvelousChester said:


> This is a great post, it's weird that it isn't a sticky. Anyways, sorry for  necrobumping.
> 
> I wanted to create a new thread but since you offered your help at the end of the OP I thought it may be better to start here. I know this is an old post but since you are still active I thought it would be fine.
> 
> I read the whole OP twice and I still couldn't find the answer to this question:
> 
> Is overreaching necessary for supercompensation to occur? Should one do more volume than that from which the body can recover before supercompensation can take place?
> 
> To give an example, let's say I do 20 sets of chest per week in the last two weeks of my meso cycle and that's as much as I can do before running into recovery issues. The last week of my meso cycle before the deload (week or whatever), should I do 25 or do I stick to 20?




So I come to a board limited in effect  to gymrats to learn a new Internet term, new to me at least ... "necrobumping."   I am sorry to posthumously post, but this thread was a jewel, always glad to stumble on MrRippedZilla's stuff, and sorry to see MarvelousChester seems to have left UG; his questions helped keep a good thread going.


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## P2rl-

Very good information. Helped me a lot. Thanks


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## BelaDublin

interesting))


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