# Calorie deficit - how big?



## Kraken (Jan 12, 2021)

How big of a calorie deficit do you guys eat on a DNP run? Last time I did it, I ate 800 calories daily, mostly protein. I don't think I can do that again...


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## Trump (Jan 12, 2021)

I eat maintenance on dnp


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## Jin (Jan 12, 2021)

For what length of time?


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## Robdjents (Jan 12, 2021)

800? End of day one I would have migraines eating that little..regardless if on anything or not


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## creekrat (Jan 12, 2021)

DNP is muscle sparing so I would stay at maintenance like Trump or just a slight, 20% max, deficit depending on what your goal is.


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## Kraken (Jan 12, 2021)

Jin said:


> For what length of time?



Planning a 30 day run, depending upon how well it goes.


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## Kraken (Jan 12, 2021)

Okay thanks guys, slight deficit it is. I'm stocking up on my pineapple and PowerAde Zero.


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## Adrenolin (Jan 12, 2021)

I'd run 50mcg t3 with the dnp if you want the best effect, will help to keep you from feeling half dead (from lethargy) on dnp as well.

Calories I'd keep close to maintenance if you're not on any AAS for the run.


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## Kraken (Jan 12, 2021)

Sadly I don't have time to source the T3. I sold my house, and I'm planning to move in with my GF and I don't want her to know anything about this. So I have about 30 days..


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## Trump (Jan 12, 2021)

why would she need to know even if you lived together?



Kraken said:


> Sadly I don't have time to source the T3. I sold my house, and I'm planning to move in with my GF and I don't want her to know anything about this. So I have about 30 days..


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## Kraken (Jan 12, 2021)

Trump said:


> why would she need to know even if you lived together?



Well I would think she'll notice the wet bed when we wake up... Although if I just do 200mg / day maybe the sides will be very mild.


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## Trump (Jan 12, 2021)

the bed won’t be wet at all at that dose you will just have a warm glow 



Kraken said:


> Well I would think she'll notice the wet bed when we wake up... Although if I just do 200mg / day maybe the sides will be very mild.


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## Adrenolin (Jan 12, 2021)

Sounds like the start of a bad relationship if you can't be honest with your girlfriend imo. I honestly don't think you'll get the results you're probably hoping for with only a single run on dnp at only 200mg. I'd bet you'd get better results from splitting it into 2, 10 day cycles. 10 days at 400mg dnp daily, break for a week, and then another run... and even then I wouldn't expect to lose more than 10lbs max.


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## dragon1952 (Jan 12, 2021)

I've done two runs recently, one for 11 days at 200mg x 3, 400mg x 4 and 600mg x4 and then I took a week off and am now in day 13 of 400mg/day. I lost 6 lbs on the first run and now close to 7 lbs on the second, so that's ~13lbs over 23 days, but I've had to eat at around a 300-400 cal deficit to do that. The few days I have eaten more than that it seems I put a lb back on :^ /


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 12, 2021)

50%. Same as it would be without the DNP. Not for the faint of heart but I've always been pretty robotic about this stuff. 

I'd have to strongly disagree on the idea of adding a catabolic drug (T3) into the mix. If lack of energy becomes a problem then you can drop the dose to a more tolerable level while extending the length of the cycle, reduce training volume, or go for the plethora of other more direct energy boosters (like simple old caffeine). Plenty of better options available outside of T3.


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## creekrat (Jan 12, 2021)

dragon1952 said:


> I've done two runs recently, one for 11 days at 200mg x 3, 400mg x 4 and 600mg x4 and then I took a week off and am now in day 13 of 400mg/day. I lost 6 lbs on the first run and now close to 7 lbs on the second, so that's ~13lbs over 23 days, but I've had to eat at around a 300-400 cal deficit to do that. The few days I have eaten more than that it seems I put a lb back on :^ /



Depending on what exactly you're eating and where you are in your cycle, it could very well be water weight.  Higher sodium content and foods that contain more water in them will make you retain a little more.


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## Adrenolin (Jan 12, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> 50%. Same as it would be without the DNP. Not for the faint of heart but I've always been pretty robotic about this stuff.
> 
> I'd have to strongly disagree on the idea of adding a catabolic drug (T3) into the mix. If lack of energy becomes a problem then you can drop the dose to a more tolerable level while extending the length of the cycle, reduce training volume, or go for the plethora of other more direct energy boosters (like simple old caffeine). Plenty of better options available outside of T3.


Welcome back. 

I wouldn't expect 2x 10 day cycles of t3 at 50mcg/dnp@400 to amount to very much of a catabolic muscle wasting effect at all.. or even the 30 days straight through. Curious to your thoughts...how catabolic are the effects of t3 when using anti-catabolic agents like clen/tren with the dnp? I haven't ever noticed any... if there was, it was immeasurable to the eye.


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 12, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> Welcome back.
> 
> I wouldn't expect 2x 10 day cycles of t3 at 50mcg/dnp@400 to amount to very much of a catabolic muscle wasting effect at all.. or even the 30 days straight through. Curious to your thoughts...how catabolic are the effects of t3 when using anti-catabolic agents like clen/tren with the dnp? I haven't ever noticed any... if there was, it was immeasurable to the eye.


Thank you. 

The problem is inappropriate use in this context more than the dose per se. If the goal is to counter the lack of energy from DNP, why go for a catabolic option when you have plenty of non-catabolic ones? A replacement dose of DNP, which 50mcg would qualify as, is justified in some of scenarios (including long term dieting to counter the T4 > T3 conversion drop), but this ain't one of them. 

The data shows that, ran solo, T3 is a catabolic monstrosity. I recall a study I posted years ago on a private forum that showed a 50/50 split between fat loss and muscle waste. I don't remember the exact breakdown but the number of lbs lost was bad enough to keep a sour taste in my mouth. I agree that when combined with anti-catabolic/anabolic compounds this impact is negligible. Although I don't think that's necessarily a justification for its use either.

To be clear, I can see T3 being used at a replacement level in certain contexts. I can never see it being used above replacement level doses ever. For the OP specifically, better options are available.


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## Adrenolin (Jan 12, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Thank you.
> 
> The problem is inappropriate use in this context more than the dose per se. If the goal is to counter the lack of energy from DNP, why go for a catabolic option when you have plenty of non-catabolic ones? A replacement dose of DNP, which 50mcg would qualify as, is justified in some of scenarios (including long term dieting to counter the T4 > T3 conversion drop), but this ain't one of them.
> 
> To be clear, I can see T3 being used at a replacement level in certain contexts. I can never see it being used above replacement level doses ever. *For the OP specifically, better options are available.*


I can agree with that. Though I do associate the lethargy from dnp as a decline in thyroid function whilst on it. Increasing his iodine may work just as well to help with the conversion of t4>t3 while on DNP.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/16/8/1026/2719251


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## Kraken (Jan 12, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> Sounds like the start of a bad relationship if you can't be honest with your girlfriend imo.



She would google DNP and after weeding through all the doctorate programs, find the horror stories and freak out.


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## Beti ona (Jan 12, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> 50%. Same as it would be without the DNP. Not for the faint of heart but I've always been pretty robotic about this stuff..



I have a plan where I reduce calories and/or increase cardio, having DNP in the mix or not does not change anything.


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## Jin (Jan 12, 2021)

Kraken said:


> She would google DNP and after weeding through all the doctorate programs, find the horror stories and freak out.



Hmmm. My wife wouldn’t think or care to look it up. I’ve told her it’s “DNP” and she knows I don’t drink any alcohol while on and that it is potentially lethal (but so is caffeine). She also knows it’s an off-label substance. 

Mostly she doesn’t like it when I take it because it’s the one compound that seems to always make me more irritable.

You are a man and should be able to make your own choices. DNP is not illegal like steroids (an argument the uninitiated have against aas). 

I get it if it’s just easier not to bring it up, but her finding out you’re keeping secrets will add a lot of stress to your relationship in the future.


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 12, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> I can agree with that.* Though I do associate the lethargy from dnp as a decline in thyroid function whilst on it.* Increasing his iodine may work just as well to help with the conversion of t4>t3 while on DNP.
> https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/16/8/1026/2719251


The bold would be a false association. DNP lowers protein bound iodine, increases free T4 by inhibiting protein binding, and increases the rate of T4 disappearance from circulation. The net change is close to nil for most people. Thyroid numbers might change slightly but no significant impact on thyroid function. 

This is one of those topics where we really need to look at the data as a whole for an accurate conclusion (always recommended when quality human data is limited). Here is a list that I'd recommend going through in order: 
Drugs and thyroid function 
Salicylates and Thyroid Function. I. Depression of Thyroid Function
Salicylates and Thyroid Function. II. The Effect on the Thyroid-Pituitary Interrelation
The effect of 2,4-dinitrophenol on the tissue concentration of iodine-containing compounds in isotopically equilibrated intact rats
Thyroxine displacement from serum proteins and depression of serum protein-bound iodine by certain drugs


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## The Tater (Jan 14, 2021)

My first DNP run was powder 200mg/day for 14 days and I lost a total of 12 lbs. The most recent run was the same dose but at 12 days and i lost 11 lbs but got Covid too so it's hard to say if ALL of that weightloss was attributable to DNP. I did not sweat that much on 200mg and really just kinda ran hot. You should eat cake every night for desert and get some good heat going!


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## dragon1952 (Jan 14, 2021)

The Tater said:


> My first DNP run was powder 200mg/day for 14 days and I lost a total of 12 lbs. The most recent run was the same dose but at 12 days and i lost 11 lbs but got Covid too so it's hard to say if ALL of that weightloss was attributable to DNP. I did not sweat that much on 200mg and really just kinda ran hot. You should eat cake every night for desert and get some good heat going!



What was your calorie deficit?


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## bigbadjedi93 (Jan 14, 2021)

Kraken said:


> Sadly I don't have time to source the T3. I sold my house, and I'm planning to move in with my GF and I don't want her to know anything about this. So I have about 30 days..



I agree with others about hiding this.  How do you plan to ever do anything while dating this chick if you can be open now.


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## The Tater (Jan 14, 2021)

dragon1952 said:


> What was your calorie deficit?


 Maintenance calories around 3200, first time I was eating low carb, second time I was eating regular protein heavy diet.


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## Kraken (Feb 2, 2021)

The Tater said:


> You should eat cake every night for desert and get some good heat going!



It's possibly to out-eat DNP! I'll skip the cake.


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## Adrenolin (Feb 2, 2021)

Kraken said:


> It's possibly to out-eat DNP! I'll skip the cake.


You must be on a low dose of dnp then.. you're not gonna out eat the heat that dnp is gonna put on if you're taking 600-800mg of it. I can't recommend dosages that high anyways, makes you a zombie. 600 you might last 2wks, 800 I've never taken longer than 4 or 5 day blasts. Works especially well for getting your body into ketosis quickly.. a little jumpstart into the diet.


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## Kraken (Feb 2, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> You must be on a low dose of dnp then.. you're not gonna out eat the heat that dnp is gonna put on if you're taking 600-800mg of it. I can't recommend dosages that high anyways, makes you a zombie. 600 you might last 2wks, 800 I've never taken longer than 4 or 5 day blasts. Works especially well for getting your body into ketosis quickly.. a little jumpstart into the diet.



Doing 400mg / day. I might try 600mg, still debating.


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## Adrenolin (Feb 2, 2021)

Kraken said:


> Doing 400mg / day. I might try 600mg, still debating.


It is no doubt a jump, but if it's winter where you are, then you're definitely doing it during the right time of year. I usually grabbed 100 and 50mg caps as well for better dosing. I'd have my window cracked, overhead fan on, an oscillating fan, and a little personal fan on me at night.. wife would be under 10 blankets. lol


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## Kraken (Feb 2, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> It is no doubt a jump, but if it's winter where you are, then you're definitely doing it during the right time of year. I usually grabbed 100 and 50mg caps as well for better dosing. I'd have my window cracked, overhead fan on, an oscillating fan, and a little personal fan on me at night.. wife would be under 10 blankets. lol



Yeah I only have 200mg caps, so dosage is increments of that. I could add a cap every other day.


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## MS1605 (Feb 4, 2021)

Glad to see Zilla cleared up a nice chunk of the misinformation I read at the start of the thread. 

600mg should be completely doable assuming it's winter by you. I would suggest taking EC as well. Not only will that fight the lethargy but it will help mobilize the fat your cleaving off your body.


Completely forget about the whole XXX On, XXX Off scheduling nonsense. With the half life of DNP being so long there is absolutely zero point in doing this. Pick a dosage and stick to it.


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## MrRippedZilla (Feb 9, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> The data shows that, ran solo, T3 is a catabolic monstrosity. I recall a study I posted years ago on a private forum that showed a 50/50 split between fat loss and muscle waste. I don't remember the exact breakdown but the number of lbs lost was bad enough to keep a sour taste in my mouth. I agree that when combined with anti-catabolic/anabolic compounds this impact is negligible. Although I don't think that's necessarily a justification for its use either.


Bumping to add to this previous statement of mine. I doubt this is the same study that I was describing above but it serves the same purpose. The weight loss split here was 60-70% muscle (FFM) vs 40-30% fat. Dosages varied but the problems started at 60mcg. 

I repeat: T3 is a catabolic monstrosity at higher than replacement doses.


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## andy (Feb 9, 2021)

am I the only one here still happy that this dude is alive and with us?

how in the hell u managed to stay alive on 800ccal mate !? ....seriously though.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 9, 2021)

Kraken said:


> Planning a 30 day run, depending upon how well it goes.



30 days.... I couldn't imagine.  14 days was hell for me.


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## Kraken (Feb 9, 2021)

andy said:


> am I the only one here still happy that this dude is alive and with us?
> 
> how in the hell u managed to stay alive on 800ccal mate !? ....seriously though.



Thanks for the concern!  This time I'm doing 1,000 to 1,100 daily. When I did 800 it was tough, I think I was more determined back then. I'm not that big a guy, 5ft 6in tall. I have lost some muscle when the pandemic started, and in a few weeks I'll start putting it back.


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## Kraken (Feb 9, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> 30 days.... I couldn't imagine.  14 days was hell for me.



21 days, so far so good...


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