# I guess steroids don't work for me anymore!



## cokezero (Aug 17, 2012)

I am in week 10 of pinnacle 625mgs test c, 400mgs deca per week and I have added plenty of calories to my diet to the point of starting to put on some fat. I eat only what 3J has on my diet. I just added to the amounts. I eat 6 meals per day and they consist of 8- 10oz protein and 16oz of carbs. I then added 1 tbsp of peanut butter. I eat way more than what my body requires to grow. And Last week I went down 8lbs. Let me back up. I ran 25mgs dbol for 5 weeks and loved it. I put on 12lbs. but from week 5 to week 10 I have lost a total of 10lbs. My strength has got a little better, but nothing to write home about. I'm 37, 180 at about 10%. What could be going on? The "old school" pharm grade gear I use to use would jack me up. Any ideas? sex drive is through the freaking roof. I have done blood work but the only place we have to go out here is labcorp and they only test to 1500 and I was at that.


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## RowdyBrad (Aug 17, 2012)

Hope you figure it out, are you noticing more definition or mass as your weight drops?


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## 69nites (Aug 17, 2012)

Have you never started a cycle with dbol before?  When I drop my dbol kickstart I also drop about 10 lbs. Its all water watch the mirror not the scale.

You may have added too much food to compensate for losing the dbol bloat.


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## grind4it (Aug 17, 2012)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is why I don't use DBol. For me it's like watching the air go out of a ballon.

I'm just curious what are your expectations for a AAS cycle (size/weight how many pounds/inches) During the cycle and post PCT?


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## DF (Aug 17, 2012)

69nites said:


> Have you never started a cycle with dbol before?  When I drop my dbol kickstart I also drop about 10 lbs. Its all water watch the mirror not the scale.
> 
> You may have added too much food to compensate for losing the dbol bloat.



This makes sense to me.


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## coltmc4545 (Aug 17, 2012)

Yup water weight bro. We're you/are you running an AI?


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## AndroSport (Aug 17, 2012)

So I'd like to add something... may not even be an issue as I don't know the deets of your regiment but i was feeling something similar recently.

I got on TRT about 7/8 weeks ago and am running at 200mg/wk. I am also running a diet w/ 3J so diet is clean and covered 100%

About 5/6 weeks in i knew i should be feeling more than i was... i just KNEW it. I had felt more gains and overall body growth off of TINY doses of dbol AND i've run plenty of gear over the last 12/13 years so I know what it should be like and i wasn't feeling any of it. I told 3J he checked the diet and said I should be good on consumption... i was busting my ass but my pumps were "just okay" if i got a pump at all during workout and knew those should be much better too. I KNOW I was/am running no major dose by any means.... 200mg/wk. But after having T levels of 116 i should feel more. (I was/am also getting the other good sides like wood all the time and wanting to fuck anything that moves and joints felt a bit better than before etc)

I have never used AI much at all in the past... always kept some on hand in case of gyno but never ever got gyno even running very high doses of many compounds. 

The TRT doc had me start taking .5mg adex E4D from the first day he pinned me and i knew he would be testing blood in a few weeks... didn't want him to feel like I was just doing it how I wanted to do it so I ran the fuckin adex E4D and at the first test my E2 levels were in a normal range he said.

All this busting my ass and not feeling much of anything I decided to drop the adex because this was the only variable that didn't make sense (i know it's no revelation from god and things affect people differently but i had to try it at least)... that was less than a week ago and i can already tell I'm starting to feel like i am ON cycle a little. Things are responding and healing and GROWING.... i feel bigger and a lot better. Joints feel a lot better too. 

I had debated using it from the beginning especially for such a low dose of test but now i know it was certainly messing with my ability to feel the effects of my TRT... i don't know if I could go so far as to say it was stopping/slowing my ability to metabolize the test but as soon as I dropped it I am noticing a big difference. 

Maybe look into that if you are running an AI to see if it is affecting you similarly... i don't ever remember having this issue in the past when I did use them (like if I thought I was getting gyno)

Good luck bro...


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## Shane1974 (Aug 17, 2012)

Is it possible you have dropped BF? If you are using one of those electronic devices, it always takes mine a few days before it detects a BF loss. Seems like I start feeling leaner, then the damn thing several days later says I am lower.


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## cokezero (Aug 17, 2012)

My body fat has gone way up. I look terrible compared to what I did a few weeks ago. I have taken dbol with other cycles with great results. I will say this: All the cycles I have had great gains off of I never ran an AI. The last 3 cycles I have ran aromisan at 12.5 mgs ed. 2 of the last 3 cycles were from z, so that could have been underdosed gear.

What I am expecting from aas is what I have always got and thats good size. I want to add weight and inches. And right now I am not doing either.

I do weigh myself all the time but I judge everything off what the mirror shows. 

I am going to drop the ai for now. I never even thought of that. Worst case I get a little gyno and I start back up.

Thanks for all the advice.


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## 69nites (Aug 17, 2012)

Who is your current gear from if you don't mind me asking?


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## Cyborg (Aug 17, 2012)

Wow. I'm on basically the same cycle, in week 8, and my scales have been going down as well, but I am visibly putting on more muscle mass. Never used pinnacle so I can't say from experience on the gear, but lots and lots of people on here say it's g2g so it must be. My meals are like 60g protein, 40-80 grams carbs depending, and some healthy fats thrown in for good measure. I'm averaging 8 meals a day but 95% of the time it's clean foods. I'm not sure what the problem would be man. I hope we figure it out for you. (And I know my diet's not perfect, never claimed it to be but it's working for me.)


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## Cyborg (Aug 17, 2012)

Oh, I'm also a believer in high glycemic carbs upon waking and the 2 meals post workout, 1 of which is a weight gainer shake. All other meals are low glycemic.


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 17, 2012)

Have you brought this up to 3J? 

told you that you should have used cvl bahahaha just joking


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## Azog (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm not trying to flame, but I'll give my 2 cents.

I had similar issues with 3j. During my bulk last winter I wasn't gaining. He insisted my gear was bunk. I got labs and it was gtg (starke gear btw). I proceeded on with his diet and got fat. I did not gain lean mass, I got fat. I was damn near 240 with like 20% bf by the time it was over. I then told him it was time to cut. I dropped about 10lbs of water immediately (this was well after pct btw) and SLOWLY started to lean out. My waist never got below 36 inches (last summer it was 32). He had me eating crazy amounts of carbs on certain days. It was seriously like 700+ grams.

I made the switch to spongy a couple weeks ago, I have lost 1.5 inches on my waist while losing very little scale weight. I'm 206lbs now with bigger arms and legs than ever just to show you how out of control my bf got. 
I'd pester 3j until he actually pays attention and maybe makes some tweaks. I think your diet is the issue brother...
Even if you were off cycle, this shouldn't be happening with a spot on diet.


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 17, 2012)

If the back round you posted is accurate, you've got bunk gear. You've been around. If you were experiencing a change in body comp you'd know it. Just paying your dues. If Z was your go to guy...then you still owed dues. Research brother.


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## SFGiants (Aug 17, 2012)

Azog said:


> I'm not trying to flame, but I'll give my 2 cents.
> 
> I had similar issues with 3j. During my bulk last winter I wasn't gaining. He insisted my gear was bunk. I got labs and it was gtg (starke gear btw). I proceeded on with his diet and got fat. I did not gain lean mass, I got fat. I was damn near 240 with like 20% bf by the time it was over. I then told him it was time to cut. I dropped about 10lbs of water immediately (this was well after pct btw) and SLOWLY started to lean out. My waist never got below 36 inches (last summer it was 32). He had me eating crazy amounts of carbs on certain days. It was seriously like 700+ grams.
> 
> ...



It's always diet unless training and rest is off even major stress can effect but all in all it's always diet and some people seem to think they know more then what they do throwing these Certified bullshits.

One dude Rambo28 straight up sucks at teaching diet because he suck at at himself but screams he is the shit with credential. Dude posted his contest diet and lets just say 169lb at 6 foot 1 is gay, he starves people, himself and his wife and is the back end off all jokes and don't even know it because he thinks he is a destroyer.


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## grind4it (Aug 17, 2012)

2X this on the 3J will make you fat.
Look up my previous posts. 3Js copy and paste diet put love handles in me like a mofo. I to switched to Spongy and have had amazing results.



Azog said:


> I'm not trying to flame, but I'll give my 2 cents.
> 
> I had similar issues with 3j. During my bulk last winter I wasn't gaining. He insisted my gear was bunk. I got labs and it was gtg (starke gear btw). I proceeded on with his diet and got fat. I did not gain lean mass, I got fat. I was damn near 240 with like 20% bf by the time it was over. I then told him it was time to cut. I dropped about 10lbs of water immediately (this was well after pct btw) and SLOWLY started to lean out. My waist never got below 36 inches (last summer it was 32). He had me eating crazy amounts of carbs on certain days. It was seriously like 700+ grams.
> 
> ...


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## cokezero (Aug 17, 2012)

I cant call 3J because my time with him is over. If I were to be honest his diet worked very well for me for a while. He would change it up from time to time and what I'm on now was his last change for being on gear. Not sure what else I could do to make my diet much better. i eat clean protein 300grams per day, good complex carbs, 500 grams per day, and good natural fats around 180 grams per day. These numbers are not exact but in the right ballpark.

The gear is pinnacle. Not the mao raws but he older one that was "overdosed". 

I'm going to drop the ai and see if that works. Because I have had great results with good gear and a poor diet. So no results with a good diet tells me something is wrong with the gear, the ai blocks all my receptors, or my body just simply wont react to drugs anymore. 

This cycle is for 14 weeks with 3 weeks of prop before the pct, so I will post back up what the results are.

I will add that my son-n-law is also running the same gear with different diet and he has nothing either. He has only ran one other cycle and it was from z. He too got nothing from that.

2 bunk cycles from z and now this. This steroid game is getting old. I took 7 years off and the whole world changed. I never had a problem getting jacked off of a 10 week cycle. Now a 10 week cycle would be a joke. Has anyone had any GOOD results from pinnacle. I know there is a lot of hype but  what about actual results with pictures.

Cobra: I am coming to you next. That way if I get burned I can just hunt you down. lol.


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## Yaya (Aug 17, 2012)

i think sometimes age has something to do with it for example:

 back when i was 20 i ran sustanon and dbol without cardio and ate like a freak, i was a little bloated but had fantastic gains.

2 years ago at age 28 i ran sus and eq WITH lots of cardio and ate like a freak, i was very bloated and on Adex, gains were ok.

the body changes over time and we respond to things differently, in both cases i was running good gear.

regarding pinnacle, my buddy who has 15 yrs of AAS use and he is loving the prop and anavar, he has  the new MAO raws.

I used the "old" pinnacle raws and was running test E and i enjoyed the product and to me it was g2g


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## sfstud33 (Aug 17, 2012)

So this is a collection of my thoughts on the issue. Firstly - i think that some sort of information on the forums to help diagnose what you are doing wrong if you are not gaining would be awesome. Im sure most people run into a brick wall at some point - and getting some tips on how to get through would be awesome.

You are on week 10, so if this cycle is not doing it for you, i dont see any problems with making a mid course correction. You just have to figure out what that will be. If your bloodwork results permit, you might extend your cycle. That gives you lots of options in terms of adjustments.

You might try adjusting your dosages upwards if you are able to cope with the sides. If deca isn't floating your boat anymore, then look at other compounds. I've done tren in the past and found that to be effective. But at 45 years old this year, i'd probably settle on primo like zeek has been using and try a long primo cycle on a small amount of test.  

Your next option is your workout routine. Can you switch it up? It might be time to deconstruct the routine and make a new one up - shifting things around may help kickstart your body. I know i fell into a rut over the last 5 years just doing the same old routines on the same days, and it did not get me anywhere. I was in maintenance mode rather than in growth mode. When i changed out my routine and incorporated some new exercises my arms started to grow again. 

In your case i think your diet should be sufficient - if you have a professional working with you on your food program then i dont see that food will be a problem. Unless you have a medical condition and are not absorbing one of the foods you are eating. Chicken and rice though are pretty much staples so if you had a medical issue with absorption i would think you would know about it. I know that i was not incorporating enough protein in my diet for the last several years - and it stopped my gains. Adding a high protein breakfast and also a couple of shakes through the day has really helped kickstart me to add 20lbs in 12 months without cycling.


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 17, 2012)

cokezero said:


> I cant call 3J because my time with him is over. If I were to be honest his diet worked very well for me for a while. He would change it up from time to time and what I'm on now was his last change for being on gear. Not sure what else I could do to make my diet much better. i eat clean protein 300grams per day, good complex carbs, 500 grams per day, and good natural fats around 180 grams per day. These numbers are not exact but in the right ballpark.
> 
> The gear is pinnacle. Not the mao raws but he older one that was "overdosed".
> 
> ...



Well I am only a refferer (spelling?) Lol


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## Get Some (Aug 17, 2012)

Get your cortisol levels checked and shore up that diet. The diet that works for others may not work for you. My guess is the diet he has you on is made for someone who is looking to compete. I know I had a guy give me a similar diet years ago and I was like, "wow, the carb content looks like it's for someone who is an olympic athlete." Also, try to stay away from processed foods if you can, although I'm sure you knew that


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## Azog (Aug 17, 2012)

I think you need to post up a detailed diet for some of the knowledgeable guys to look at. We have all told you what we think, but you want to believe your gear is bunk. I don't think that's the case with Pinnacle.
Maybe take a few days off the gym and diet to rest up?


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## Jada (Aug 17, 2012)

I agree with Azog, I think it will be best for u just to rest for a week and I would hit up spongy to check out ur diet and maybe he could tweak it and things can start to happen.


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## cokezero (Aug 17, 2012)

Azog said:


> I think you need to post up a detailed diet for some of the knowledgeable guys to look at. We have all told you what we think, but you want to believe your gear is bunk. I don't think that's the case with Pinnacle.
> Maybe take a few days off the gym and diet to rest up?



Here is my diet. Keep in mind that the amounts are really the only thing different. I have added quite a bit to this.

I never said the gear was bunk. I said something is wrong. I feel all the effects of steroids just no muscle changes. no gains or not getting any leaner. I took 4 days off the gym and got plenty of sleep and still nothing. 

Guys I appreciate all the advice. I want to clear up something. This is in NO WAY trying to say pinnacle gear is bunk. I think there gear is good. I feel like its me or something i'm doing thats why I'm asking for y'alls opinions.


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## Azog (Aug 17, 2012)

That's almost exactly the diet that gave me issues when I was with 3j. Hahaha
That diet took me from like 210 12% to like 240 20%!


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## DADAWG (Aug 17, 2012)

Azog said:


> That's almost exactly the diet that gave me issues when I was with 3j. Hahaha
> That diet took me from like 210 12% to like 240 20%!



i realize that its rough estimates but before at 12% you were at 184.8 # lean mass and at 240 # lean mass was 192# so at least you made gains in mass lol.


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## chicken wing (Aug 17, 2012)

Lol. He gave me the same diet? Put on some fat


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## Azog (Aug 17, 2012)

DADAWG said:


> i realize that its rough estimates but before at 12% you were at 184.8 # lean mass and at 240 # lean mass was 192# so at least you made gains in mass lol.



Hahahaha I guess. Lets get back on topic and help this bro out! Hopefully spongy will chime in.


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## beasto (Aug 17, 2012)

This 3J's diet is not working for you! Sure he's pulled form 3 protein sources and 3 carb sources. But from the sounds of it he's using this similar diet for everyone! Well it doesn't work that way. Even when I bulk I stay with eating a couple lbs of halibut, mahi mahi, daily. I would get with Sponge and i'm sure he can help you out and get you on the right track bro.


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## 69nites (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm not exactly a diet wizard but that's a whole lot of meals with both high fats and high carbs.

That will make me fat no matter how clean the sources are.


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## Rage Strength (Aug 17, 2012)

WAYY too much fat, too little protein.


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## Illtemper (Aug 17, 2012)

Since your losing weight and not building muscle have you tried to sway and try different food with 3js diet?

Maybe try sweet potatoes in a couple meals or 10oz of lean beef to change it up..Its possible your body doesn't use the rice as efficiently as someone else. I read awhile ago that some people process foods differently in there body and metabolize at different rates than other people and to where potatoes might help you more than rice. Same goes for the chicken and beef, its good to throw a steak in there a few times a week to get the minerials and vitamins that is in beef.. 

Now this is just stuff I read and personal experience, so don't flame me for posting this. I'm not dietician by any mean but when I notice numbers going the wrong way or not liking what I see in the mirror I changes things for a couple weeks to see what'll happen...

I'm interested to see what other say!


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## cokezero (Aug 17, 2012)

I do change my meals as far as from chicken to beef, or beef to steak. I also switch up my carbs daily. I use red potatoes, sweet potatoes, and brown rice. 

I have had several friends that have gotten kidney stones lately and all the doctors are telling them that its from to high of a protein intake. Thats why I only take in 300grams per day since I only weigh 180lbs. Yall ever heard of this?

If the fats seem high and the carbs seem high, then how do I raise my calorie intake?

I am going to contact spongy and see what he charges. I am broke as all get out right now. go figure I spent it all on food.
thanks again guys.


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## SFGiants (Aug 17, 2012)

cokezero said:


> I do change my meals as far as from chicken to beef, or *beef to steak*. I also switch up my carbs daily. I use red potatoes, sweet potatoes, and brown rice.
> 
> I have had several friends that have gotten kidney stones lately and all the doctors are telling them that its from to high of a protein intake. Thats why I only take in 300grams per day since I only weigh 180lbs. Yall ever heard of this?
> 
> ...



Steak is beef bro! (Joking around not flaming)


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## AndroSport (Aug 17, 2012)

Not to step off topic or be rude... and I know this one doesn't happen to work for you but now that you have gotten some input I would possibly suggest editing your full diet layout post?

I understand everything is custom tailored per person but for guys like Spongey or 3J someone may choose to copy that diet and use it for themselves instead of getting customized professional help from them and then these guys, the diet professionals, loose out.

Whether you like the guy you are working with or not I think that may not be good to leave in open forum. Just my opinion - do what you like with the post.


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## 69nites (Aug 17, 2012)

cokezero said:


> I do change my meals as far as from chicken to beef, or beef to steak. I also switch up my carbs daily. I use red potatoes, sweet potatoes, and brown rice.
> 
> I have had several friends that have gotten kidney stones lately and all the doctors are telling them that its from to high of a protein intake. Thats why I only take in 300grams per day since I only weigh 180lbs. Yall ever heard of this?
> 
> ...


For me as an endo carbs are for breakfast, pre, and post workout only. In those Carb meals I take in minimal fats.

Mixing high carbs and fats in the same meal make me gainthe wrong kind of weight


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## SFGiants (Aug 17, 2012)

Man, you all need to switch over to Powerlifting!


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## cokezero (Aug 17, 2012)

SFGiants said:


> Man, you all need to switch over to Powerlifting!



I am just a bodybuilder.


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## DADAWG (Aug 17, 2012)

cokezero said:


> I would NEVER powerlift. My wife just read that and laughed her head off. she asked if I would lose my six pack so she could pry apart my fat. Most women like guys with definition. I would only bodybuild. SO THANKS BUT NO THANKS!!!!!
> 
> By the way lean ground beef and a new york strip have very different calories. So when you say beef if beef that is true but not true.
> 
> You show me a lean good looking powerlifter and I will start powerlifting. I dont' lift to brag, I lift to have others brag about me.



lol people only notice the heavyweight powerlifters but the weight classes start at barely over 100 pounds for men , ive worked out with many many lean and shredded powerlifters over the years , some could have been very good bodybuilders  and other didnt have the genetics due to big joints , etc. . im not telling you what you should do , just saying you have a BIG misconception of powerlifters.


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## cokezero (Aug 18, 2012)

I just go off of what I see at the gyms. and pics on these sites.


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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)

DADAWG said:


> lol people only notice the heavyweight powerlifters but the weight classes start at barely over 100 pounds for men , ive worked out with many many lean and shredded powerlifters over the years , some could have been very good bodybuilders  and other didnt have the genetics due to big joints , etc. . im not telling you what you should do , just saying you have a BIG misconception of powerlifters.



Lets not forget a Powerlifter turned Bodybuilder is better then one that don't train for Power.

All the old school dudes trained for power and definition.

Most women do not want a bodybuilder thei want a skinny assed weak Brad Pitt type of man but are stuck with what they got lol and for the most that is a fat assed lazy sloppy Bastard.

Nobody can convince me women are more so for a lean dude when I see in the USA fine ass women with sloppy and or obsess men, women do not know WTF they want they just fucking want!


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## Azog (Aug 18, 2012)

cokezero said:


> I would NEVER powerlift. My wife just read that and laughed her head off. she asked if I would lose my six pack so she could pry apart my fat. Most women like guys with definition. I would only bodybuild. SO THANKS BUT NO THANKS!!!!!
> 
> By the way lean ground beef and a new york strip have very different calories. So when you say beef if beef that is true but not true.
> 
> You show me a lean good looking powerlifter and I will start powerlifting. I dont' lift to brag, I lift to have others brag about me.



Google Stan Efferding. Powerlifting and having a good physique aren't mutually exclusive.


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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)

cokezero said:


> I would NEVER powerlift. My wife just read that and laughed her head off. she asked if I would lose my six pack so she could pry apart my fat. Most women like guys with definition. I would only bodybuild. SO THANKS BUT NO THANKS!!!!!
> 
> By the way lean ground beef and a new york strip have very different calories. So when you say beef if beef that is true but not true.
> 
> You show me a lean good looking powerlifter and I will start powerlifting. I dont' lift to brag, I lift to have others brag about me.



Lol, not knocking anyone down bro we all have are own goals but if you think of the powerlifter only as a fat guy your wrong most of the best have been very lean with more muscle then most people have on them.

Some are both bro Powerlifters / Bodybuilders.

Here are 2 well known


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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)




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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)

Double post delete!


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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)

Delete double post!


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## cokezero (Aug 18, 2012)

SFGiants said:


> Wow I just read your whole post and must say this is why bodybuilders have a bad rap, your a dick!



bro you have flamed me on several different threads over the last few months. Just dishing it back out. 

Look man if you have some good info to add to my thread then feel free to post up. But if it just worthless info just asking ya to keep it to yourself. thanks


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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)




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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)

cokezero said:


> bro you have flamed me on several different threads over the last few months. Just dishing it back out.
> 
> Look man if you have some good info to add to my thread then feel free to post up. But if it just worthless info just asking ya to keep it to yourself. thanks



I don't flame people bro I joke around but never flame, I will retract calling you a dick and edited it as I can see if you thought I was flaming you I'd be pissed too so I'm sorry you thought that!


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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)

Now I feel like a dick, NO HOMO!


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## cokezero (Aug 18, 2012)

SFGiants said:


> Now I feel like a dick, NO HOMO!



I apologize too. I also edited my post. We all cool. Now we can move on down the road.


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## Curiosity (Aug 18, 2012)

AndroSport said:


> Not to step off topic or be rude... and I know this one doesn't happen to work for you but now that you have gotten some input I would possibly suggest editing your full diet layout post?
> 
> I understand everything is custom tailored per person but for guys like Spongey or 3J someone may choose to copy that diet and use it for themselves instead of getting customized professional help from them and then these guys, the diet professionals, loose out.
> 
> Whether you like the guy you are working with or not I think that may not be good to leave in open forum. Just my opinion - do what you like with the post.



Andro, I definitely understand what you're saying here and see your point. However, if a guy like 3J is taking peoples money, giving out the same exact diet to different people telling them that it's a custom tailored diet for their needs when it really isn't, and they're getting shitty results from it, that is bullshit too. And that's the kind of thing that I think it's very fair for us to share, discuss, and bash here in the open forum. 

Just the other perspective on what you said bro, you know i have much love for ya.


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## SuperBane (Aug 18, 2012)

Yeah what is that about Andro? This is SI I thought we were transparent over here and spoke the truth?

Somebody made a comment about still owing dues. Correlated to the particular gear wtf? Pinn was suppose to be g2g? Smh. Cvl FTW cause if your not in the cool club what else can you do but stand in the cold?

I wish Sponge would chime in ... I'm def on the fence about an online nutritionist ........ I sure would like to work with one .... But if I weren't to get results from a guy .... Then who's face could I punch when I'm out the $.

Like I said when I first joined every board seems to have it's brands they promote ... SI was suppose to be the place where anything could be said spoken. Fuck a guy if he is just reselling the same thing to everyone. Needs exposure.

Sorry if I offended.

Bro I'm watching this thread intently hoping you get your problems ironed out.
Goodluck!


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## SuperBane (Aug 18, 2012)

Yeah what is that about Andro? This is SI I thought we were transparent over here and spoke the truth?

Somebody made a comment about still owing dues. Correlated to the particular gear wtf? Pinn was suppose to be g2g? Smh. Cvl FTW cause if your not in the cool club what else can you do but stand in the cold?

I wish Sponge would chime in ... I'm def on the fence about an online nutritionist ........ I sure would like to work with one .... But if I weren't to get results from a guy .... Then who's face could I punch when I'm out the $.

Like I said when I first joined every board seems to have it's brands they promote ... SI was suppose to be the place where anything could be said spoken. Fuck a guy if he is just reselling the same thing to everyone. Needs exposure.

Sorry if I offended.

Bro I'm watching this thread intently hoping you get your problems ironed out.
Goodluck!


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## coltmc4545 (Aug 18, 2012)

Superman said:


> Yeah what is that about Andro? This is SI I thought we were transparent over here and spoke the truth?
> 
> Somebody made a comment about still owing dues. Correlated to the particular gear wtf? Pinn was suppose to be g2g? Smh. *Cvl FTW cause if your not in the cool club what else can you do but stand in the cold?*
> 
> ...



Not really sure what you mean by this???

I can see both points of views. Yes SI is probably the most transparent board out there and we talk about stuff that wouldn't be allowed on any other board. That's what makes SI great. Here's the thing, the way I see it... I agree with Andro. It's one thing to say "Hey 3J sucks, and here's why." Same goes with a lab. There was an issue with CVL that was posted in the forum. Nothing was edited or deleted. The poster took it up with the lab. The lab took care of it. Plus the reps, me and cobra, handled it the best we could. The poster did what he should of and contacted the lab, THEN made a thread. He didn't blast CVL and not tell them about it. My point is, situations like this need to first be taken up with the source FIRST. In this situation, 3J is the source. Then post about it. After all, he makes his $ on word of mouth mostly. He doesn't want someone unhappy and then telling people they're unhappy first and he knows nothing about it. Contact 3J bro. Tell him you're unhappy. If he doesn't change anything then post a thread and knock him. 

I don't agree with posting of the complete diet plan either honestly. Would a lab want someone posting how they brew thier gear? I wouldn't. I think the best thing to do if you want someone to take a look at your diet plan is pm spongy with it. I'm sure he'd have no problem looking at it and telling you if it's shit or not. After all, I'm not a nutritionist so my input on the plan means nothing. They're the experts not me.


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## AndroSport (Aug 18, 2012)

SFGiants said:


>



DAMN! You sexy SFG!


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 18, 2012)

AndroSport said:


> DAMN! You sexy SFG!



Is that stigmata?


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## SFGiants (Aug 18, 2012)

That is  Konstantin Konstantinovs


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 18, 2012)

SFGiants said:


> That is  Konstantin Konstantinovs



Yes...I know. I was joking about his palm. The stigmata....a religious reference.


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## SuperBane (Aug 18, 2012)

I guess thar makes sense colt. I still don't get how a guy advertisement says custom diet and then more then one guy chimes in saying hey that's more or less the same diet he gave me. 
Maybe I'm reading the advertisement differently then it is written and taking it's intent out of context.


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## Hollywood72 (Aug 18, 2012)

In an exchange of 2 emails with 3J I decided not to use his service. Seemed very cookie cutter-ish to me. 
I'm sure he knows what he's doing but personalization is the key and it was apparent that I would receive none. Hope you get it worked out bro.


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## cokezero (Aug 18, 2012)

guys thanks for all your input. After thinking things over I am going to do 2 things:

first of all stop taking an ai. All the cycles I have done in the past I had great results and never ran an ai.

secondly I am going back to my old school way of eating. Making things like cassaroles with clean food in them. Really just eat like normal people do just leave out the butter, sugar, and processed foods. Again I have had great results with gear and not eating chicken and potatoes every meal. I am looking for size so not to worried about a little fat I might put on.

I will post back up in a week or two and let everyone know if this worked or if I truly am just a jacked up person.

thanks again..
coke


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## DADAWG (Aug 18, 2012)

cokezero said:


> guys thanks for all your input. After thinking things over I am going to do 2 things:
> 
> first of all stop taking an ai. All the cycles I have done in the past I had great results and never ran an ai.
> 
> ...



keep us posted , im really curious.


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## Curiosity (Aug 18, 2012)

coltmc4545 said:


> Not really sure what you mean by this???
> 
> I can see both points of views. Yes SI is probably the most transparent board out there and we talk about stuff that wouldn't be allowed on any other board. That's what makes SI great. Here's the thing, the way I see it... I agree with Andro. It's one thing to say "Hey 3J sucks, and here's why." Same goes with a lab. There was an issue with CVL that was posted in the forum. Nothing was edited or deleted. The poster took it up with the lab. The lab took care of it. Plus the reps, me and cobra, handled it the best we could. The poster did what he should of and contacted the lab, THEN made a thread. He didn't blast CVL and not tell them about it. My point is, situations like this need to first be taken up with the source FIRST. In this situation, 3J is the source. Then post about it. After all, he makes his $ on word of mouth mostly. He doesn't want someone unhappy and then telling people they're unhappy first and he knows nothing about it. Contact 3J bro. Tell him you're unhappy. If he doesn't change anything then post a thread and knock him.
> 
> I don't agree with posting of the complete diet plan either honestly. Would a lab want someone posting how they brew thier gear? I wouldn't. I think the best thing to do if you want someone to take a look at your diet plan is pm spongy with it. I'm sure he'd have no problem looking at it and telling you if it's shit or not. After all, I'm not a nutritionist so my input on the plan means nothing. They're the experts not me.



Yeah Colt I definitely agree that its always better to go to the person or lab or whatever that you have an issue with first to see if they can fix it. 100% agreement. 

I guess what I was thinking was that if he hadn't posted up the whole diet, 2 other people wouldn't have been able to say 'hey, that's the exact same diet he gave me'. Which, to me, is information that I'm glad to have in making future choices about hiring nutritionists. But I agree with everything you said here, definitely not for blowing up anyone's livelihood or giving away trade information that isn't meant to be shared publicly.


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## Jezebel (Aug 18, 2012)

Well, not just two other people.  I saw his diet yesterday before he took it down and it looked very familiar.  I am on 3J's 8 week carb cycling diet.  I saw his diet and looked and what he sent me and it's the same damn diet!  Smaller portions of course but the same diet.  I'm kinda pissed.  I spent a lot of money in what I thought would be a customized plan for me.  He has quite the rep on the ology forums and I didn't know about Spongy at the time.

Here is my carb cycling schedule without the actual diet:

He has me on a 3 day carb rotation schedule, low carb, high carb, and no carb.

High carbs day:  
100g proteins
150g carbs
55g fats

Low carbs day:
100g proteins
50g carbs
100g fats

No carbs day:
100g protein
less than 20g carbs
112g fats

I'm half way through the 8 week program.  I have seen some results but not the dramatic results I've been seeing in his testimonials.  I've lost a few pounds and some inches but my body fat doesn't seem to be changing much.

I've emailed him and said I'm getting sick of eating the same foods.  In his defense, he did send me a list of foods I'm allowed and I can rotate as I see fit so I'm not eating the same things every day.

After seeing this thread, I think I'm going to email him and tell him I want to supercharge the last half of my program and what I need to do to lower this body fat and get more pounds off of me at a higher rate.

I think I may PM Spongy too to see if he is willing to tweak my diet a bit.  I understand if he doesn't though because I'm with another nutritionist.  Damn, I wish I had know all this before hiring 3J.  He seems like a nice guy but as others have said, a bit too cookie cutter.  

Maybe Spongy can have a special for disappointed 3J customers?  LOL


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## AndroSport (Aug 18, 2012)

Superman said:


> Yeah what is that about Andro? This is SI I thought we were transparent over here and spoke the truth?
> 
> Somebody made a comment about still owing dues. Correlated to the particular gear wtf? Pinn was suppose to be g2g? Smh. Cvl FTW cause if your not in the cool club what else can you do but stand in the cold?
> 
> ...



Bro it sounds like you didn't get the intent of my post. I don't have any stake in either side of this... and I am ALL FOR transparency across the board here to a certain extent... but posting detailed diet plans not only takes away from 3J but from Spongey too and any other dietitian... not to mention the guy who might be copying someone else's plan that won't work for him. If we have 3 people using 3J and want to compare this information do it via PM... you still get to see whats going on without taking from others in the process. You can always post your thoughts here without fear that they will be suppressed or deleted. As can I.

It's pretty clear that everyone who said "thats my diet" chose the "standard carb cycle" plan out of the many plans that 3J has available and then filled out the information sheet that tells him what foods they like and regularly eat then he adds them to the plan customizing it for what that person likes to eat and builds some constraints etc to keep in healthy. It's not that crazy that

I will tell you what - I have a very similar plan from 3J too - but it has the foods that I like to eat mixed in with fairly similar macros. It doesn't shock or appall me that its similar to your carb cycle or anyone else's because if it was all that different it wouldn't be what we asked for. Difference with me is I've lost roughly 25 lbs and almost 4 inches from my stomach in less than 2 months. Ive received some good coaching and advice along the way too.

So i don't really think this is something that can be termed as selling bullshit to people. It works for some and not as well for others... maybe another plan would... IDK I'm no dietitian either.

Hopefully Mr Coke gets everything worked out...


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## Lulu66 (Aug 18, 2012)

cokezero said:


> I am in week 10 of pinnacle 625mgs test c, 400mgs deca per week and I have added plenty of calories to my diet to the point of starting to put on some fat. I eat only what 3J has on my diet. I just added to the amounts. I eat 6 meals per day and they consist of 8- 10oz protein and 16oz of carbs. I then added 1 tbsp of peanut butter. I eat way more than what my body requires to grow. And Last week I went down 8lbs. Let me back up. I ran 25mgs dbol for 5 weeks and loved it. I put on 12lbs. but from week 5 to week 10 I have lost a total of 10lbs. My strength has got a little better, but nothing to write home about. I'm 37, 180 at about 10%. What could be going on? The "old school" pharm grade gear I use to use would jack me up. Any ideas? sex drive is through the freaking roof. I have done blood work but the only place we have to go out here is labcorp and they only test to 1500 and I was at that.



Well you said it your self... You modified your diet, by adding to the portions without consulting your dietician.... You got fat. Thats to be expected.
Losing a bunch of water weight after discontinuing the use of dbol is normal.
Also what kind of diet you asked for? A bulking diet, cutting, recomp? I assume a bulking diet, if so, some increase on body fat is to be expected on any bulikng diet.


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## Lulu66 (Aug 18, 2012)

Idk about the whole cookie cutter thing... That would make all personal trainers shitty too, since workout plans for similar goals look the same, or very close. All your diets are of course look very similar, if they have the same goals in mind, just meals and quantities change...

Contact 3j and have him sort ur diet out.
Also, could you post up your workout routine, if you dont mind.
This tread is headed the wrong direction, if yall catch my drift.


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## Curiosity (Aug 18, 2012)

cokezero, sorry for jacking your thread bro. keep us posted on your results with your changes.


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## TheLupinator (Aug 18, 2012)

69nites said:


> For me as an endo carbs are for breakfast, pre, and post workout only. In those Carb meals I take in minimal fats.
> 
> Mixing high carbs and fats in the same meal make me gainthe wrong kind of weight



Good advice here



SFGiants said:


> Man, you all need to switch over to Powerlifting!



Powerlifting is the shit!! If you dont wanna get fat then put down the cheeseburger... CokeZero if you think powerlifting will make you fat somehow well then you know very little about diet and training to be brutally honest... 



Superman said:


> Yeah what is that about Andro? This is SI I thought we were transparent over here and spoke the truth?



Yes we like to keep Si transparent but we don't cut guys legs out from underneath them either 



Lulu66 said:


> Well you said it your self... You modified your diet, by adding to the portions without consulting your dietician.... You got fat. Thats to be expected.
> Losing a bunch of water weight after discontinuing the use of dbol is normal.



100% agree



Lulu66 said:


> Idk about the whole cookie cutter thing... That would make all personal trainers shitty too, since workout plans for similar goals look the same, or very close. All your diets are of course look very similar, if they have the same goals in mind, just meals and quantities change...



I would never pay for a nutritionist but its to be expected that everyone with similar goals and similar starting point is going to get a similar diet... when it doesn't work tell him and he better tweak that shit to your liking


Ultimately I think everyone should do their own research, try different methods, and find out what works for yourself!! Yes you can pull knowledge from all the experienced vets/nutritionists on boards but when you start getting fat and lifts aren't going up and/or the scale is moving down well WTF change something! I wouldn't have waited til week 10.. I would have told 3J his diet is too high cal for your body/workouts.. he should've made changes.. but he's not your guardian angel.. your fitness is your responsibility.. Like I said I know my body from doing no carb diets, high carb, no dairy, you name it.. so when its time to cut I know exactly what to do and when its time to bulk I know exactly what to do!!

Oh and as far as bunk gear--> get blood test done, are you shut down? where is your test at? where is your estro at?
--> PEA Is FueL (Shameless ugl promo)


End Rant

~Lupi


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## cokezero (Aug 18, 2012)

(you know very little about diet and training to be brutally honest)

I actually know a great deal about diet and training. I know  nothing about power lifting and I dont want to. Different strokes for different folks. I know you wouldn't wait till week 10 but I am not you!! I too am a far cry from fat. On my worst day I have a very nice 6 pack. I have 17" arms 50" chest, 17" calves, and I'm only 180lbs. so I think its clear I know what I am doing. I get compliments everywhere I go. I cant remember the last day someone didn't say something to me about the way I look. At age 37 I don't grow like I did when I was 25.

If you read earlier in the thread you would have seen that I have done blood work. I have done it twice. I only have access to labcorp and they only test up to 1500 on test. So there is no way to tell where I am.

My gear is good. I am not saying its bunk. I am saying that I'm in a funk and looking for "experienced guys" to help me get out of it.

Now about 3J. His diets might seem cookie cutter but if you think about it you only have so many protein sources, so many good carb sources, and same with fats. However the custom part comes in to play with the amounts. The amount I take in for bulking is probably different from someone wanting to lean out. But the basic food will be the same or atleast close to it.

I can not contact 3J and tell him he has my diet wrong because him and I finished up our 8 weeks around 2 months ago. He wrote me up a diet for when I did get on cycle for bulking. That is what I'm on now.


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## RowdyBrad (Aug 19, 2012)

When I got on with 3J, he had told everyone that he starts out with basically the same diet, then goes from there. I didn't like turkey breast and turkey, or olive oil, so I was subbing for natty peanut butter, etc. I just had to tell him I didn't like something.

The main differences would be if you don't like something or if you are allergic. They want you to enjoy it as much as you can. I was happy with my 3J diet and now have the "setup" to be able to lower or raise the amounts and cut or bulk. It was a good investment to me.

Most nutritionists start the same way from what I have seen and then cater to your needs from the starting point. Spongy is different I believe because I think you have a lot of options for each meal, not just the same foods.

FWIW


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't care what you eat. I'm saying its bunk gear. I don't even remember what lab its from or if you even posted that info. Who wants to place a wager? I'm down. Nothing ridiculous as I'm not a man of great means.....How about a $10 gift certificate and whomever wins will send it to the OP. 
I say its shit gear not diet so if I win, the loser has to send the OP a cert from Carls Jr(or the equivalent)...if you win I have to send him a gift cert from GNC or some sort of health food store. 
69nites....you want some of this?


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## SFGiants (Aug 19, 2012)

Just want to throw this out there and not saying this is what he is trying to do but is fact!

You can't stand and sit at the same time meaning your can't cut and gain, you will not drop fat = cut and put on mass at the same time as a matter of fact you will lose mass.

I say this not because of poster but I hear it all the time how a person is going to get ripped and add mass at the same time, it's not possible.

To cut fat = ;ess calories to add mass = more calories!

There is one exception, Me, no just kidding but the exception is the person who has never touch a weight before will add mas for about the 1st 4 months on a cut diet according to many people I have talked to through out the years, beginner gains they call it.

What makes you fat? FOOD!
What make you skinny? FOOD!

It's all about intake, how many calories taken in over a LONG stretch of time which leads me to another subject.

WTF are people thinking with this 8 week bulk then cut the next 8 weeks? gains either way take time much time!

I will stay say it's diet even if the gear is bunk, diet comes 1st and diet is always the 1st to look into always!


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## SFGiants (Aug 19, 2012)

cokezero said:


> guys thanks for all your input. After thinking things over I am going to do 2 things:
> 
> first of all stop taking an ai. All the cycles I have done in the past I had great results and never ran an ai.
> 
> ...



Shit bro you can't eat super clean and put on good mass you need to get a little dirty.

All the big ass boys get dirty to get big just not sloppy dirty into a fat pig.

Ice cream is huge with the big boys in gaining, pizza and stuff like that.

People will argue that it ain't true you must stay super clean but that is ignorant and most that say this can't get past a buck eighty.

I am not saying sit down eat a whole pizza and have a half gallon of ice cream either, have veggie's or a salad before pizza = less pizza but good amount of calories.

Bro all the bodybuilders I know that are impressive eat ice cream when bulking and other stuff it's how they get so damn big, they eat dirt and stay lean very lean but not on stage lean and nobody should be that damn lean if not on stage it is very dangerous and unhealthy.

By the way the fat you will put on will come off better and faster with the added mass but here is the thing the more fat you put on the more muscle you will lose taking it off and is why the successful gain around 12%  bf during a bulk 12% is the magical number where you will make great gains and not have to lose a lot of mass when you lean up!

You will learn there is a lot of talk with no walk, a lot of people saying they are a powerlifter that has never been on a platform a lot of people that call themselves a bodybuilder with never setting foot on stage, if you never been on the platform in a meet you are not a powerlifter and if you never done a show you are not a bodybuilder period!

What people are that don't compete are people that train for power and or people that train for aesthetics not powerlifters and bodybuilders, they are separate lifestyles! Now powerlifters and bodybuilders is who will teach you the best not some dude that is certified to run his mouth!


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## SuperBane (Aug 19, 2012)

*pinnacle labs*



biggerben692000 said:


> i don't care what you eat. I'm saying its bunk gear. I don't even remember what lab its from or if you even posted that info. Who wants to place a wager? I'm down. Nothing ridiculous as i'm not a man of great means.....how about a $10 gift certificate and whomever wins will send it to the op.
> I say its shit gear not diet so if i win, the loser has to send the op a cert from carls jr(or the equivalent)...if you win i have to send him a gift cert from gnc or some sort of health food store.
> 69nites....you want some of this?


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## dsa8864667 (Aug 19, 2012)

biggerben692000 said:


> I don't care what you eat. I'm saying its bunk gear. I don't even remember what lab its from or if you even posted that info. Who wants to place a wager? I'm down. Nothing ridiculous as I'm not a man of great means.....How about a $10 gift certificate and whomever wins will send it to the OP.
> I say its shit gear not diet so if I win, the loser has to send the OP a cert from Carls Jr(or the equivalent)...if you win I have to send him a gift cert from GNC or some sort of health food store.
> 69nites....you want some of this?


Your the first to say pinnacle is bunk gear im using pinn so far so good.


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## cokezero (Aug 19, 2012)

SFGiants said:


> Shit bro you can't eat super clean and put on good mass you need to get a little dirty.
> 
> All the big ass boys get dirty to get big just not sloppy dirty into a fat pig.
> 
> ...



I agree with everything your saying. I started training for a show last year but uncle z's bunk gear left me hanging. When I was in my 20's I trained for shredder, Texas and 3 weeks out I came down with strep throat and lost 19 lbs. I use to be quite a bit bigger but I took 7 years off and got married, built a house, and started a new business.

As far as eating what ever.. I am going to eat a lot dirtier than I have been. I will still keep it in moderation but I hear what your saying about gain then lean.. I would like to gain as much as possible until feb then start to lean out and compete. Even if I have to compete in physique to get started I wouldn't care.


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 19, 2012)

dsa8864667 said:


> Your the first to say pinnacle is bunk gear im using pinn so far so good.



As I said. I didn't know what lab the OP was using. I don't know where he got his gear. I've never used Pinn. I supposes I should edit my post. I'm not calling this lab out by any means. Besides, who am I...nobody.


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## cokezero (Aug 25, 2012)

Just a little update for anyone who cares.
I have a dr. appointment with a very reputable dr. He specializes in steroids. He treats many bodybuilders and pro athletes. The down side to it is I am a new patient so It will be Sept. 28 before he sees me. I will post up an update after I meet with him. I will keep this thread going when I find out what's going on with me so that if someone else down the road has the same problem maybe this will help them.


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## Jezebel (Aug 25, 2012)

Hope all goes well for you cokezero!  We care about your well-being!


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## DF (Aug 25, 2012)

cokezero said:


> Just a little update for anyone who cares.
> I have a dr. appointment with a very reputable dr. He specializes in steroids. He treats many bodybuilders and pro athletes. The down side to it is I am a new patient so It will be Sept. 28 before he sees me. I will post up an update after I meet with him. I will keep this thread going when I find out what's going on with me so that if someone else down the road has the same problem maybe this will help them.



Thanks Coke hope you get to the bottom of this deal Bro.


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## username1 (Aug 31, 2012)

..........


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