# A form issue I see a lot



## Itburnstopee (Apr 13, 2017)

While lifting and pretending I'm not watching others deadlift with rounded backs in the mirror, I notice that they're practically hunched over the bar looking directly into the ground. I realized I've been doing something similar too. According to Candito, this is a combination of a flexibility and weak hams/glutes/quads so the body gets in the position which is strongest. This means using the lumbar and lower back muscles because they're much stronger than those leg muscles. While reviewing my deadlift videos for form flaws I finally realized after watching the below video that I'll take time setting up, get all psyched and ready, get in the perfect position for myself, and then my hips raise up and I basically do a stiff leg deadlift after taking my time getting ready. I mentioned a while ago I had bad back pain and lower back pumps, and I suppose this unnecessary lower back stress is the reason why. I know for me my issue is my weak squat and I intend to build that up while doing some form work on my deadlift. Just thought I'd share something that may help someone

heres the video (I hope I posted this correctly):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ta6NAgDzqgw


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## Itburnstopee (Apr 13, 2017)

I'm trying to cut. I can easily gain squat strength but not while cutting. So I take it I should focus on deadlift form and then go back and build that squat up to the strongest it can get. For form work I'm gonna do my working sets and then add additional deadlift work with much lighter weights and a lot of repitions as to strengthen that form. I may even do some sumo deadlifts for accessories


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## Flyingdragon (Apr 13, 2017)

Can u please stop staring at my backside, creeper!


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## widehips71 (Apr 13, 2017)

I dont know who that is but does he even?




I'm the least flexible person I know and I don't have this problem.  Hell I strugggle putting on my socks.  Heavy good mornings helped keep my back in position while driving the floor away with the legs.  What's your 1rm squat and pull?  I'm imagining you have several weak points to address.  Why not post up a vid for us?


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## Itburnstopee (Apr 13, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> I dont know who that is but does he even?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah that's what I was saying. My squat 290-315 max. Deadlift:440. So because the leg muscles are to weak my back does all the work to compensate. It make sense to me that if I built a stronger squat the issue would fix itself


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## motown1002 (Apr 13, 2017)

Those brows tho...  lol


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## PFM (Apr 13, 2017)

Pull some weight off the bar until you're pleased with your form. Work with that weight for a few weeks until you own it. Very slowly add weight over months. Remember this is not a race and your longevity is King.


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## Milo (Apr 13, 2017)

You need to find your correct starting position for your hips. Most people start too low. Even guys like John Haack. If your ass shoots up 8 inches before the bar even breaks the ground you ****ed up. As far as a rounded upoer back, that is perfectly acceptable and ideal to most. Less range of motion and at some point your lats wont be able to hold the weighy to your legs. Find me 1 guy aside from Mike T that pulls with a straight back over 800 pounds.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 13, 2017)

Itburnstopee said:


> Yeah that's what I was saying. My squat 290-315 max. Deadlift:440. So because the leg muscles are to weak my back does all the work to compensate. It make sense to me that if I built a stronger squat the issue would fix itself



Not quite. Your hips shoot up because you don't quite understand how to deadlift. Or at least you can't put it in to practice.

Look up "hip hinge" on youtube. That's almost everything you need to know to start building a deadlift.

Hinge. Grab bar. **** the bar (unhinge).


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 13, 2017)

Or u could just bench instead


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## automatondan (Apr 13, 2017)

I learned quite a bit of form tweaks from watching this video over and over and over:


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## Itburnstopee (Apr 14, 2017)

Milo said:


> You need to find your correct starting position for your hips. Most people start too low. Even guys like John Haack. If your ass shoots up 8 inches before the bar even breaks the ground you ****ed up. As far as a rounded upoer back, that is perfectly acceptable and ideal to most. Less range of motion and at some point your lats wont be able to hold the weighy to your legs. Find me 1 guy aside from Mike T that pulls with a straight back over 800 pounds.




what happens is my hips shoot up until I'm literally bent over the bar lmao. I reviewed old videos and with lighter weights less than 315 I have no problem holding that good form without hips moving upwards before the bar moves, but I'm speculating my ego had ****ed me here. I'm gonna focus on correcting this


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## Milo (Apr 14, 2017)

I had the same problem and missed my 3rd attempt pull at my last meet because of it. Was hesitant of the weight and jerked it, causing my hips to fly up. Start with hips higher, dont yank the bar, and be sure to preload the bar with tension to stay very tight.


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## widehips71 (Apr 14, 2017)

Milo said:


> Most people start too low.


 
	Wut??  Don't take this personally, but this is wrong.  Like dangerously wrong.  The vast majority of people you watch deadlift in the gym will ALWAYS start with their hips too high and wind up doing a straight leg pull.  You're giving him the impression that he should start hips high which already puts him at a disadvantagous postion for leverage.  If someones hips are shooting up at the beginning of the pull the answer is not to start with hips higher.  This is bad advice.


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## Milo (Apr 14, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> Wut??  Don't take this personally, but this is wrong.  Like dangerously wrong.  The vast majority of people you watch deadlift in the gym will ALWAYS start with their hips too high and wind up doing a straight leg pull.  You're giving him the impression that he should start hips high which already puts him at a disadvantagous postion for leverage.  If someones hips are shooting up at the beginning of the pull the answer is not to start with hips higher.  This is bad advice.


You are 100% wrong. Lower hips does NOT equal better leverage, taking into account body type leverages. Someone with long femurs like myself simply cannot start low and legpress the weight up. Someone with short stubby femurs can and should go low toutlize leg drive. But the "majority of people you watch in the gym do ABC" argument is stupid. Who says theyre wrong? Your recycled and regurgitated bad "cues"? Deadlift technique is not one size fits all and anyone that says otherwise should refrain from giving advices. Long femurs= start higher hips. If you dont then youll have ZERO power off the floor, your hips will shoot up, and your knees will be so far forward that you wont be pulling the bar straight up.


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## Milo (Apr 14, 2017)

Again Ill reiterate, this is FEMUR LENGTH DEPENDENT! I will say youre right in regards to shorter femurs, but longer ones....not a chance man.


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## widehips71 (Apr 14, 2017)

Milo said:


> You are 100% wrong. Lower hips does NOT equal better leverage, taking into account body type leverages. Someone with long femurs like myself simply cannot start low and legpress the weight up. Someone with short stubby femurs can and should go low toutlize leg drive. But the "majority of people you watch in the gym do ABC" argument is stupid. Who says theyre wrong? Your recycled and regurgitated bad "cues"? Deadlift technique is not one size fits all and anyone that says otherwise should refrain from giving advices. Long femurs= start higher hips. If you dont then youll have ZERO power off the floor, your hips will shoot up, and your knees will be so far forward that you wont be pulling the bar straight up.




This is ****ing ignorant.  So you had your femurs measured for a LLD study and you know how long they are, right?  No.  You're assuming XYZ based on your height which doesn't mean shit.  Recylced and regurtitated?  Because I'm a rookie that pulls 225 and never been coached?  GTFO.  I never said it's one size fits all.  My arguement is stupid when you're the one giving him advice on hip position without ever seeing him pull a bar?  No.  You gave him bad advice without knowing what his leverages are and I called you on it.  Smug know it all prick


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## Milo (Apr 14, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> This is ****ing ignorant.  So you had your femurs measured for a LLD study and you know how long they are, right?  No.  You're assuming XYZ based on your height which doesn't mean shit.  Recylced and regurtitated?  Because I'm a rookie that pulls 225 and never been coached?  GTFO.  I never said it's one size fits all.  My arguement is stupid when you're the one giving him advice on hip position without ever seeing him pull a bar?  No.  You gave him bad advice without knowing what his leverages are and I called you on it.  Smug know it all prick



You know Ive always thought you were an idiot but couldnt pin point why. Pretty obvious now.
Oh youve been coached! Why didnt you say so in the first place? That gives you all the credibility in the world! I dont need your confirmation that I have long femurs. And I dont need them measured to know that. As I told OP, MY problem, in having my hips shoot up, was that I was starting too low and he might be experiencing the same issue. Fact of the matter is, I dont like you. Never have. My resonse was to the OP, then I responded to your verbal vomit. That is the extent of this conversation.


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## automatondan (Apr 14, 2017)

Boys boys boys


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## ToolSteel (Apr 14, 2017)

Eh. Milo has a point. 

Hips, I understand why you reacted that way, but even though it could've been worded better, milo isn't wrong. 

All the time at meets meets you'll see someone hit a big pull and then people go "you see that? And he pretty much stiff legged it!"
2+2=.......

Leverage plays a big part. I have a shorter torso and longer femurs than average; I pull better starting hips higher. A LOT better. As long as your lower back stays flat, do whatever is strongest for you. I fought and fought with my dl trying to get my hips down. Wasn't till I finally started pulling to my advantage that I started dropping pr's. 


I like both of you. Now shut up.


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## John Ziegler (Apr 14, 2017)

Tried using a wider grip last night while doing front squats.

Usually my comfortable grip is just about slightly wider than shoulder width.

But last night for some reason felt uncomfortable in the delt

Not from the bar pressure but from the tension.

So went ahead and grabbed it a few inches wider.

Delt tension was relieved but lost power

Also the tension was relocated to the upper ab 

right in the ^ of my chest

What is the ideal width front squat grip ?


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## widehips71 (Apr 14, 2017)

Milo said:


> You know Ive always thought you were an idiot but couldnt pin point why. Pretty obvious now. Oh youve been coached! Why didnt you say so in the first place? That gives you all the credibility in the world! I dont need your confirmation that I have long femurs. And I dont need them measured to know that. As I told OP, MY problem, in having my hips shoot up, was that I was starting too low and he might be experiencing the same issue. Fact of the matter is, I dont like you. Never have. My resonse was to the OP, then I responded to your verbal vomit. That is the extent of this conversation.




Aww some skinny **** called Milo doesn't like me.  Guess I'll tuck my tail in between my legs, hop on my bicycle and ride back to the trailer park.  **** it I will have to quit training now too.  You really showed me.


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 14, 2017)

Both of u shut up. U both are right and wrong. Why? Because there's no one way for everyone. Now stop before I take my Weiner out and cock slap both of u, and tool just cus he likes pp


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 15, 2017)

What's funny is i coached both milo and wide lol

You guys are both sort of right.  It all comes down to the persons leverages. But more than just femur length.

You want the hips as close to the bar as possible. So long femur means butt far away. This can be reduced by starting higher hips.

But what if arm length just doesn't support that? 

What if glute development isn't enough to allow the person to confidently pull back while ****ing the bar? 

Hell sometimes a person's form defies logic like tools does.

We can bat this back and forth all day. But, both of you guys have a good pull that works best for you.


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 15, 2017)

If I were to go back to conventional I would have to pull more like tool does. A lot of big pullers lift that way. Its just what suits them.


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## John Ziegler (Apr 15, 2017)

Now that we got that squared away ......

What about that front squat grip position 

yuh twats


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 15, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> Now that we got that squared away ......
> 
> What about that front squat grip position
> 
> yuh twats



I have to cross my arms and hold the bar like that on front squats. If u have the flexibility to do it the way u said then that's awesome. The wider u put your hands out the less tight your delts will be


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## widehips71 (Apr 15, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> Now that we got that squared away ...... What about that front squat grip position yuh twats






Yep California style for my inflexible ass too


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## John Ziegler (Apr 15, 2017)

Will try the crossing the arms style

The regular just wider the shoulder wants to tear my front delt

 The wider grip feels like it wants to rip my guts out.

Thanks guys.


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