# Blood Work Results



## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm six weeks into my cycle and went and got a hormone panel for females done to asses what needs to be adjusted. However, I'm not sure what each thing is and for the things I do know, I'm not sure how to adjust my dosages to set me up for a successful cycle/PCT.

Here are the results:

Estradiol, serum - HIGH - 117.5 pg/mL

Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) - LOW - <0.2 mIU/mL

Complete Blood Count (CBC) - everything was in normal range

Luteinizing Hormone (LH) - LOW - 0.1 mIU/mL

Testosterone, Serum - HIGH - 1450 ng/dL

Comprehensive Metabolic Profile
These two things were high, everything else was in normal range:
BUN - HIGH - 21 mg/dL
BUN - Creatinine ratio - HIGH - 21


Right now each week I'm on:

Sustanon 250 (500mg split into two dosages

Arimidex (1 mg each week)

Hcg (1000iu each week)

Hgh (2iu per day)

I also have nolvadex and clomid on hand for my PCT.

Please let me know what is and isn't working and needs to be adjusted!

Thank you so much. This forum is a life saver!


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## brutus79 (Apr 4, 2014)

Im gonna go out on a limb and say you need an ai that Isnt fake super fast before you grow some titties... and that test is shit.  You should be between 3-4000 at 500 a week.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2014)

brutus79 said:


> Im gonna go out on a limb and say you need an ai that Isnt fake super fast before you grow some titties... and that test is shit.  You should be between 3-4000 at 500 a week.



X2. The sust is shit. How are you dosing the AI? Once a week at 1mg? If so that could explain high E2 or the other possibility is it's bunk too.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

Now I'm scared as shit. The AI I'm taking 0.5mg twice a week. Is the hcg fake as well?


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

Should I just bail out of this thing and start PCT or what's the best route? I obviously need an AI hookup but don't have one. Should I start dosing nolvadex or clomid?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> Now I'm scared as shit. The AI I'm taking 0.5mg twice a week. Is the hcg fake as well?



Only way to tell is to come off the sust and recheck test levels or do an at home pregnancy test.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm confused here. So what all is bunk and what's my best route to not **** myself up on this thing? I have planned all this out and spent so much on supplements and food and shit. This is brutal. Wanted this so damn bad.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2014)

I'd bail simply bc you are shutdown and your test levels aren't much better than someone on TRT....relative to what you're taking. If you do come off your have to wait for everything to clear your system before beginning pct. ~21days.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

What do I do about the AI? How can I verify I won't get tits when I bail off this shit? 
Just cut off of it cold turkey and wait 21 days?


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## brutus79 (Apr 4, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> What do I do about the AI? How can I verify I won't get tits when I bail off this shit?
> Just cut off of it cold turkey and wait 21 days?



I would up the ai dose to .5 a day and relax- the test is so weak you dont have to worry that much.  Sorry about your cycle my friend... but your recovery will not be too hard considering underdosed gear.


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## brutus79 (Apr 4, 2014)

And yes- stop the test.  If you can call it that....


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

So my last pin was yesterday. How long should I take 0.5 mg of the AI everyday and what should I do w the hcg and hgh.


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## bronco (Apr 4, 2014)

Who lab name is the sust?


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

Centrino labs


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 4, 2014)

Was that 1450 for the test the cut off? I know most stop at 1500. Your adex is probably shit though.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

Can someone advise me on how to properly bail out of this mess?
Take 0.5 of my fake AI everyday for how long? And then when should I start pct? Same as a normal one? Should I attempt to get another AI or what?


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## Big Worm (Apr 4, 2014)

You have horribly weak sust, adex not so good, and the hcg is probably adding to the e2 issue.


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## brutus79 (Apr 4, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> So my last pin was yesterday. How long should I take 0.5 mg of the AI everyday and what should I do w the hcg and hgh.



You are asking for recomendation on a product that yo u don't know what the dosage is, and since it's your first cycle you dont know how you react to well dosed test.  Since I would bet it is dosed around 75-95 per ml I would say you will be ok to start pct in 10-12 days.  Total guess.  If you got serms and ai from the same source buy new ones somewhere else. I would also get more adex (I prefer aromasin) elsewhere as well.


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## bronco (Apr 4, 2014)

ECKSRATED said:


> Was that 1450 for the test the cut off? I know most stop at 1500. Your adex is probably shit though.



I have been seeing some recent test going well above 1500. Mine came back in the 1800 range. But like you say most cut off at 1500. Not sure why


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## bronco (Apr 4, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> Centrino labs



Did you buy AI or pct from them


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

I got it all from my uncle. The test was centrino labs. The AI is in some weird looking box. Now I have to figure out where to buy an AI. If I get a hold of an AI what protocol should I follow and for how long? If I don't get my hands on an AI is there an alternative route I can take using the clomid or nolvadex?


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

Is anyone willing to explain to me in dumbed down terms what each result means and what I should do? I'm about to hit panic mode. I don't have access to any other stuff and I'm confused what to do not to **** myself up for good.


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## bronco (Apr 4, 2014)

For me .5mg every 2 or 3 days keeps me in normal range. Hard to say what will work for you not knowing if your adex is real or not


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

Should I just make a doctors appointment and tell him I ****ed up and took gear and I need him to prescribe me an AI?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2014)

bronco said:


> I have been seeing some recent test going well above 1500. Mine came back in the 1800 range. But like you say most cut off at 1500. Not sure why



The sensitivity of the test itself


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## brutus79 (Apr 4, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> I got it all from my uncle. The test was centrino labs. The AI is in some weird looking box. Now I have to figure out where to buy an AI. If I get a hold of an AI what protocol should I follow and for how long? If I don't get my hands on an AI is there an alternative route I can take using the clomid or nolvadex?



I suggest a superset of beating your uncle to death and then beating him to death again.

Read this forum. Read other forums. Learn about your body.  Your doctor will be slow to prescribe ai's because they are for people with breast cancer... it will not take too much research to find sources that are VERIFIED LEGIT GTG if you read, read, read. Its your body- make learning about it and what you put in it an actual priority.


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## RJ (Apr 4, 2014)

ok, first off. are you having estro related issues? Whether you are or not, stop freaking out and everyone should stop trying to freak you out. that is higher than normal but you're not gonna 'grow some titties' just because you have an E2 in that range. and 1mg of Adex a week isn't that much if you are estro sensistive. Again with the poor info. I would try doing maybe .25mg or .5mg a day and see what that does. 

Second, how many days were between the previous Sust injection and the day you gave blood? Because serum levels can change drastically from day to day. Especially with the shit way you are dosing that Sust. First off, blends suck for that very reason. Timing the short vs. long esters. I would throw that shit away or sell it and get some simple LE test. Enan or Cyp. And because of how you are dosing this Sust, that could be setting your serum levels off and your E2. Again, blends suck. 

as for how much of a test level result you should have, no one will know that either. So don't just give up because you get some poor information on the board. Personal experience is the only way YOU will be able to tell how YOU handle gear. 

So lets review:

1. Change your adex dosing to .25-.5mg a day going forward. 
2. Dump that sust and get some LE test. If this is all you can get, i'd change and do 1/2cc EOD. This will yield you about the same amount each week with much more blood serum stability. 
3. Stop freaking out!
4. Have your bloods checked again in 4 weeks. Then we can reassess from there. 

Again, stop freaking out.


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 4, 2014)

Some guys take 200 mgs a week and it only bring their test to 8 or 900. His test might be real it's prolly just slightly under dosed.


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## RJ (Apr 4, 2014)

ECKSRATED said:


> Some guys take 200 mgs a week and it only bring their test to 8 or 900. His test might be real it's prolly just slightly under dosed.



but that depends on when they get bloods taken in relation to their injection time. mine can very by 2-300ng/dl in a day or two. just depends on the person.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2014)

ECKSRATED said:


> Some guys take 200 mgs a week and it only bring their test to 8 or 900. His test might be real it's prolly just slightly under dosed.



You're comparing a hypogonadal male to a eugonadal male. It's not a truly accurate comparison.


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## RJ (Apr 4, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> You're comparing a hypogonadal male to a eugonadal male. It's not a truly accurate comparison.



not in relation to each other, of course not, but blood serum results will vary from one eugonadal male to the next and most certainly will vary if he say took his injection and waited 3 or 4 days before he had bloods drawn as opposed to the day after his injection. Back when my balls were still functioning via recovery it worked the same way. 

My point is you can't simply say that on 500mg a week of Sust you should be hitting 3-4000ng/dl. There are no definites in this game. Except that I'm old and Jen's a whore! mlp

lets see what this lad has to say before we don our internet MMA gloves and pink Tapout shirts.


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## brutus79 (Apr 4, 2014)

RJ said:


> not in relation to each other, of course not, but blood serum results will vary from one eugonadal male to the next and most certainly will vary if he say took his injection and waited 3 or 4 days before he had bloods drawn as opposed to the day after his injection. Back when my balls were still functioning via recovery it worked the same way.
> 
> My point is you can't simply say that on 500mg a week of Sust you should be hitting 3-4000ng/dl. There are no definites in this game. Except that I'm old and Jen's a whore! mlp
> 
> lets see what this lad has to say before we don our internet MMA gloves and pink Tapout shirts.



I can't even have a little fun with the guy?

In all seriousness I didnt know you could swing a couple thousand ngdl over 3-4 days.

I would panic over the estro but I am very fond of my current breast proportions and am very paranoid as a result of that.

Pink tapout shirts.  Nice.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 4, 2014)

Thank you RJ for chilling me out a bit!
I pinned on Sunday morning and got my test levels checked on Thursday afternoon while fasted. I pinned my second dose shortly thereafter. 
Should I lower my hcg dose per week? 
Should I tap into my clomid or nolvadex just in case gyno is possible?
Risk taking the AI? Or should I just order some from a different source ASAP?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2014)

RJ said:


> not in relation to each other, of course not, but blood serum results will vary from one eugonadal male to the next and most certainly will vary if he say took his injection and waited 3 or 4 days before he had bloods drawn as opposed to the day after his injection. Back when my balls were still functioning via recovery it worked the same way.
> 
> My point is you can't simply say that on 500mg a week of Sust you should be hitting 3-4000ng/dl. There are no definites in this game. Except that I'm old and Jen's a whore! mlp
> 
> lets see what this lad has to say before we don our internet MMA gloves and pink Tapout shirts.



You have a point and I understand there can be variation brother but even Llewellyn in his text mentions that a 200mg dose should get serum levels to around 1500. Granted as you said not everyone will have the same systemic blood volume so levels will and can vary but OP is on more than double that dose and his levels haven't maxed out a non-sensitive panel. 

One thing that I initially overlooked that could impact this is he's running sust so steady state may not have been achieved 6wks in. I'd like to see another panel done in a couple weeks and see if his levels are atill on the rise. For now I'm sticking with my gut though and think it's underdosed. Would be interesting to know for sure. 

Lol at working balls comment, hopefully OP's balls are still functional with the HCG use.


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## RJ (Apr 5, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> Thank you RJ for chilling me out a bit!
> I pinned on Sunday morning and got my test levels checked on Thursday afternoon while fasted. I pinned my second dose shortly thereafter.


this is exactly my point. that is a big difference in time. Like i said, get some non-blend LE test and shoot it sunday and thursday and you'll be fine. Or at least do 1/2cc of this Sust EOD. either way should help tremendously. That being said, its not like you can't grow well on a reading of 1500ng/dl. The only way to know for sure is with new bloods, which you should do in 4 weeks after we change some things. 

Doc, if Llewellyn said exactly that then he is mistaken. Take this cat for example. There was a 5 day span between his injection and his blood work take. The half life of all the esters alone, if its true test (which it sounds like UG so its prolly 3 at best), would be enough to cause a big swing in ng/dl over that time. I know we could debate all day about this, and you may be right about his gear, but I'm betting its how he's dosing it and the time between inject and blood draw. 



bcheck736 said:


> Should I lower my hcg dose per week?



the HCG will aromatize big time so that could be part of the issue. You shouldn't need it unless you just want big nuts, so I'd say for now drop it. Curious though how you are dosing it. One shot of 1000iu will aromatize differently then 250 EOD. 



bcheck736 said:


> Should I tap into my clomid or nolvadex just in case gyno is possible?



Why would you add something else to affect your hormones when you don't even have gyno? Just change your adex dosing to what i mentioned earlier. If you aren't having estro sides i wouldn't sweat it. I have seen E2 numbers above 800 with no estro sides at all. Not even water. Guy was dry as a bone. 



bcheck736 said:


> Risk taking the AI? Or should I just order some from a different source ASAP?



Again, you don't know that its bunk adex. it could be fine. 1mg isn't alot per week. do .25-.5mg ED until you get bloods drawn again and see what happens. 

Keep us posted.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 5, 2014)

Thank you so much man! Can't thank you enough for the info. 

I'm currently dosing 500iu twice a week (Sunday and Thursday).

Are those estrogen levels so high that yet could do long term damage? I see the range of the test goes up to 46 and I'm over 100 so it freaked me out.

I'll follow what you said and get bloods done in 4 weeks.

Thanks again!!!!!


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## ECKSRATED (Apr 5, 2014)

Your doing 500iu twice a week for a total of 1000 or 250 twice a week for total of 500?


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## bcheck736 (Apr 5, 2014)

500 twice a week for a total of 1000.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 5, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> 500 twice a week for a total of 1000.



Get a home pregnancy test and test the HCG. If it's real there really is no question as to your gear being bunk. I understand what RJ is talking about but sustanon injections peak serum levels after about  48hrs. You took the pin Sunday so it was peaking on Tuesday. Bc sust has such long esters and it taking around 21days for serum levels to return to normal tells me there is no way you dropped low enough to get that sort of reading. Also coo consider HCG increases serum test levels too. If it's real then it means that too was part of your test levels and accounts for some of it. Without he HCG (assuming it's real) your levels would have been lower. The only other thing I can think of is you still haven't reached steady state concentrations so your levels could still be on the rise. Consider getting another panel, this time with a sensitive assay total testosterone, at wk 8-10. We'll see if they continue to go up or remain relatively stable.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 5, 2014)

So based on my lab results what things do I need to get higher and what things do I need to get lower? 

Obviously my estrogen level needs to go down, but is that a normal LH and FSH while on cycle? Isn't the hcg supposed to keep the LH and FSH up? Does hcg up your estrogen and your testosterone levels? 

I am going to test the hcg with a pregnancy test. But after reading non stop I'm wondering what would be the best route because some people are saying lower the hcg to get estrogen in check and some are saying up it. So which one of these is correct?

1.) Lower hcg dosage to 600ius a week total instead of the normal 1000iu I have been on, in order lower estrogen and take 0.5mg of the AI a day to lower estrogen as well.

Or

2.) Up the Hcg to 2000 iu twice a week (equaling 4000iu per week total vs. the 1000iu a week I've currently been on) and take 20mg of clomid everyday for 3 weeks.
(Is this a good route? It makes me more confident using the clomid than the anastrozole since it appears the anastrozole hasn't been making much of an impact/could possibly be bunk). 

Problem is these routes contradict each other. More or less hcg and why?!?!?!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 5, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> So based on my lab results what things do I need to get higher and what things do I need to get lower?
> 
> Obviously my estrogen level needs to go down, but is that a normal LH and FSH while on cycle? Isn't the hcg supposed to keep the LH and FSH up? Does hcg up your estrogen and your testosterone levels?
> 
> ...



Based on your lab values your E2 needs to come down a good deal. Also your test levels should be higher if you've reached steady state which there should be no question by wk 8-10...RJ and I disagree on this point at least for now until we see more bloods. 

HCG is a LH ANALOG it is NOT LH and therefor will not register as LH on a blood test. It also has minor analog properties of FSH but those are much weaker than it's LH-like properties. Yes, LH and FSH are normal like that on cycle bc you are shutdown. You're HPTA is not sending the signal to produce GNrH so the pituitary doesn't get the signal to produce LH and FSH. That's normal for being on cycle. What's not normal is how low your test levels are in relation to what your cycle is. Next blood test do it the day after you pin preferably. 

HCG will prevent total shutdown of testicular function and stimulates the Ledyig cells in the tested to produce endogenous testosterone so yes it will raise test levels and cause a concomitant increase in E2. This is why I think your test is bunk...if the HCG is real then part of your test levels is due to the HCG which means the Sust isn't giving you levels of 1450, it's the sust PLUS HCG. But only if the HCG is real. 

Take a little but of HCG and put it on the pregnancy test. If it tests positive or pregnant than you have real HCG. If not then it's fake. There are a lot of differing opinions on HCG. The protocol advised by Dr. Crisler and the one that makes the most sense is to use HCG during a cycle from day one till hair before beginning PCT. Dose it at 250iu twice a week for a total of 500iu weekly. Mix it with your Sust injections and pin them together or pin it sub q with a slin pin it can be taken IM but I'd only do that if mixing it with the Sust otherwise it's just an extra 2 injections into your muscles you could've done without. 

Option 2 is pure garbage. Option 1 is better but this is what I would do:

1) keep pinning the sustanon the same exact way you have been. 
2) lower HCG to 250iu 2x per wk. 
3) dose your AI at .5mg/ED

Once you've study I to that protocol for 1-2wks get a blood test. Time the test to be the day after your injections. This will give us a more accurate reading as levels should be on the rise at that point.


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## RJ (Apr 5, 2014)

And even though doc and I disagree, you are the only one that can make the decisions. I agree with him about the hcg, and even though I think sust should be dosed EOD for best results, if u do get a panel the day after you should see a better response. You've gotten two options to get you going. Don't make the mistake most do and overthink it. Make a plan and do it. We'll help you through any weird shit.

Can u do me a favor and look at your vial and tell me what esters are in the Sust? Should be 4 but most UG Sust is a 3 ester blend. Or worse yet, an ara-test of one SE and one LE. 

Thanks


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## bcheck736 (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks RJ and doc! I'll follow the plan you guys think is best. I might order another AI just in case this one shows up to be fake in 1-2 weeks.

The four esters are: propionate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decaonate.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 8, 2014)

Just get some better test and keep going. Drop the hcg and get some legit aromasin. Your levels aren't that bad, and the test is probably underdosed but there's something in there. Take the test at 300mg 3 times a week in the mean time and chill


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 8, 2014)

Hcg causes estrogen related issues for a lot of people. You don't need to use it. You are young you will recover fine.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 8, 2014)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Hcg causes estrogen related issues for a lot of people. You don't need to use it. You are young you will recover fine.



On the contrary, I'd say everyone on a cycle or TRT should use HCG. HCG will of course increase E2 among other things but that's what an AI is for. I don't like to leave recovery solely to chance. I will stack the odds in my favor each and every time and considering the primary issue in HPTA restoration isn't production of LH but testicular responsiveness to LH, youd be much better off using it.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 8, 2014)

Tell me why if I'm on trt why I need hcg.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 8, 2014)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Tell me why if I'm on trt why I need hcg.



Do you value overall health?

Are you on cycle? Is your HPTA suppressed? 

If so, so is the P450scc which is responsible for steroidogenesis. It's dependent on LH concentrations in plasma which are suppressed on cycle or TRT. Steroidogenesis is responsible for more than just natural test production but many other necessary hormones as well as adrenal function. Here's chart showing what it's responsible for (and what you'd be making less than optimal levels of without HCG while suppressed)


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 8, 2014)

Notice Dr. Crisler doesn't solely talk about TRT patients but all people who are fully or partially suppressed



			
				Dr. Crisler said:
			
		

> But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol.  The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 8, 2014)

I'm not an advocate of staying on hcg for a cycles entirety. Tell me about these other hormones and how come my endo says hcg is not necessary. I'm not neglecting the fact you are passionate about using the drug. But you do realize hcg is a relatively new phenomenon and there's just as many studies about its ineffectiveness as there is in favor for it. Especially if someone is having estrogen related issues...this will compound these problems


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 8, 2014)

Anabolic Reality said:


> I'm not an advocate of staying on hcg for a cycles entirety. Tell me about these other hormones and how come my endo says hcg is not necessary. I'm not neglecting the fact you are passionate about using the drug. But you do realize hcg is a relatively new phenomenon and there's just as many studies about its ineffectiveness as there is in favor for it. Especially if someone is having estrogen related issues...this will compound these problems



If someone is having estrogen related issues there are other ways around it than sacrificing quality of treatment. Lower test dose, take more frequent injections, add or up your AI, add DIM, zinc, and copper, etc. Avoiding the HCG will effectively reduce the quality of the treatment. 

I have no idea why your endo said that, presumably bc he knows little about it and that it's a new development...but that has no bearing on it's effectiveness. 

Find me one, 1, applicable study showing ineffectiveness of HCG.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 8, 2014)

Interesting. I never questioned it's effect in hypogonadism just didn't realize it's effects on other hormone imbalances. I get blood work done regularly and never have a glitch. My endo is very well respected so that's not the issue. I'll show him some if this info and wait for his response. 

I appreciate your passion on the subject. Touché lol


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 8, 2014)

Anabolic Reality said:


> Interesting. I never questioned it's effect in hypogonadism just didn't realize it's effects on other hormone imbalances. I get blood work done regularly and never have a glitch. My endo is very well respected so that's not the issue. I'll show him some if this info and wait for his response.
> 
> I appreciate your passion on the subject. Touché lol



Anabolic, I'd love to know your doctors take and exact reasoning for not needing it. We both agree HCG with TRT is relatively new but not necessarily without merit. I've included the link to Dr. Crisler's updated paper on HCG if you want to print a copy for your endo and see what he says. All the hormones that are produced via P450SCC aren't typically tested for while on TRT so they wouldn't show up normally. There are some who cannot get HCG prescribed so they supplement with DHEA and pregnenolone but this is a less efficient method than simply using HCG. My passion is to hopefully keep everyone safe throughout their years of cycling brother. Thank you for keeping an open mind and taking this to your endo! Maybe something positive will come of it.


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## Anabolic Reality (Apr 8, 2014)

I will show this to him thank you. And no issue at all. I was serious I wanted to know why. I've been doing this a long time and things are changing my friend. I won't ever argue with tried and proven....


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## bcheck736 (Apr 9, 2014)

Alright so I'm getting my blood work redone next Friday which I will post as stated.

But today I tested the hcg I was sold. I put 1000ius on a pregnancy test and the test didn't register as anything. So after ten minutes I ran water on it and it came out negative. Am I doing this wrong? Wouldn't barely any hcg set it off? I'm thinking about buying another test just to double check, but if you think it's not worth it please let me know. Thanks


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 9, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> Alright so I'm getting my blood work redone next Friday which I will post as stated.
> 
> But today I tested the hcg I was sold. I put 1000ius on a pregnancy test and the test didn't register as anything. So after ten minutes I ran water on it and it came out negative. Am I doing this wrong? Wouldn't barely any hcg set it off? I'm thinking about buying another test just to double check, but if you think it's not worth it please let me know. Thanks



Did you put dry powder or liquid (after re-constituting it)?


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## RJ (Apr 10, 2014)

that damn P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme....

i knew i was missing something. mlp


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## bcheck736 (Apr 10, 2014)

Liquid after re-constituting. I'll try again today by mixing 1000ius w a cc of bacteriostatic water so it has enough liquid to ignite the test.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 10, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> Liquid after re-constituting. I'll try again today by mixing 1000ius w a cc of bacteriostatic water so it has enough liquid to ignite the test.



Think about Trying a different test strip also


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Apr 10, 2014)

Doc, he needs to get mass specs done...cmon bro...


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## bcheck736 (Apr 10, 2014)

What does that mean?


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Apr 10, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> What does that mean?



If this was a response to my comment, it was an inside joke with doc lol


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## gymrat827 (Apr 10, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> *I got it all from my uncle.* ?



that explains a lot.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 11, 2014)

Cool story gymrat. Very useful information for everyone. People like you make these forums such a pleasure. 

I tested the hcg with a pregnancy test and it's legit. 

Lowered the hcg to 500mg/week. Have been dosing the sustanon the same and upped the arimidex to 0.5mg/EOD. I started getting sensitive nipples so I am taking nolvadex at 15mg per day until the aromatase I ordered gets here. I've heard nolvadex can go against gains, but I rather play it safe than get gyno. 

ll post blood work next Friday. Just keeping the updates going. Thanks again for all of the help!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 11, 2014)

He does make a very valid point though...

Nolva won't hinder progress.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 15, 2014)

Ok I have another question (surprise surprise). 
So background on this is posted in the above thread....but basically to recap, my E2 was high as hell so we assumed either my dosage of arimidex was too low or it was bunk all together. Since the realization of how high my E2 was, I immediately started doing the arimidex 0.5mg EOD. Been doing that for a week now, but yesterday my exemestane finally came in. I took 12.5 mg of exemestane yesterday for the first time yesterday. My question is....now what do I do? Do I continue to take the arimidex 0.5mg EOD and the exemestane 12.5mg EOD and then come off of the arimidex once the exemestane it kicks in? How long does it take to kick in? Should I take small amounts of each? I read that exemestane doesn't reduce current E2 levels but destroys the conversion of future estrogen. So how do I get my high levels in check? 
So overall what I'm asking is....what dose of which one should I take until I get my blood redone on Friday? The only thing I can tell you that has changed is my sex drive is gone completely. I looked it up and this can be due to too high of estrogen or too low of estrogen. No clue what route to take here.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 15, 2014)

This is why bloods are recommended. 

All the AI's work by inhibiting aromatization; that's not specific to exemestane. Estradiol is constantly being made and metabolized. Lowering high E2 is accomplished by reducing the conversion that takes place. 

 Exemestane is weaker than adex and letro so unless you're one of a very select lucky few I'd suggest dosing it daily and no less than 12.5mg (probably 25mg). Exemestane will take a little longer than adex or letro to build up so begin tapering down on the adex dose as the exemestane begins to build.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks Doc!!!!


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## RJ (Apr 16, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> This is why bloods are recommended.
> 
> All the AI's work by inhibiting aromatization; that's not specific to exemestane. Estradiol is constantly being made and metabolized. Lowering high E2 is accomplished by reducing the conversion that takes place.
> 
> Exemestane is weaker than adex and letro so unless you're one of a very select lucky few I'd suggest dosing it daily and no less than 12.5mg (probably 25mg). Exemestane will take a little longer than adex or letro to build up so begin tapering down on the adex dose as the exemestane begins to build.



absolutely correct. Let me add that Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor. It lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, and permanently deactivating it, which means it has androgenic effects. It also prevents SHBG releasing more free test and has an 85% rate of estrogen suppression. As well as raising testosterone to a significant degree, it makes it an awesome choice. Once it deactivates the aromatase enzyme those particular enzymes will no longer function, even if your body produces more aromatize, it cant do anything because it cant bind. So the biggest advantage of using a suicidal AI is that it really won’t cause much estro rebound when you stop using it, so no rebound gyno which is quite possible with Anastrozole and letrozole. Also as well as reducing water retention, having no negative impact on good cholesterol, and no chance of rebound gyno, the androgenic effects make it a great choice in PCT.


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## bcheck736 (Apr 16, 2014)

Awesome! How long would you use it into PCT?
Example: After my 10th week, I stop pinning, and wait 18 days from my last injection to start nolvadex and clomid. How long do you take the exemestane after the last pin?


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## RJ (Apr 16, 2014)

bcheck736 said:


> Awesome! How long would you use it into PCT?
> Example: After my 10th week, I stop pinning, and wait 18 days from my last injection to start nolvadex and clomid. How long do you take the exemestane after the last pin?



Start taking it from the very beginning. Even before really. When u come off ur test levels drop and estrogen can do goofy things. Since there is no rebound with Aromasin, you can take it the whole time u PCT.


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