# Cytomel and Cypionate?



## deicide (Dec 20, 2013)

Hi all. So I have been doing quite well with my fat loss, but have now hit a wall. I have been losing fat for 11 months, but am now going to give a cytomel cycle a shot. Here is my question: do I need test. with it? I know in regards to minimizing t3's catabolic effects it is a good idea. However, would doing test. along with it not make me gain weight, which I do not want? I know in the past my body responds very well to cyp., especially in terms of weight gain. However if I am not concerned about muscle loss, do I need it? I have no issue with losing muscle and then working my ass off to build it back up again.

Stats.: 40 yrs. old, 5'9, 236 lbs., down from 314. I have been training for over 11 years, used to compete in powerlifting, and have taken many different 'products' in the past.

Proposed cycle: 50 mcg. t3 e.d./6 weeks
(if I need it): cypionate 300 mg./week for 10 weeks
followed by PCT

Nutrition while on (proposed): 40-40-20 split starting at 2300 cal.; when off the cytomel keep protien high, but bring cals. down for 4 weeks; as well use an otc fat burner for a couple of weeks

Training: steady state cardio. 6-7x/week: 30-60 min.
             each bodypart 1x/week; 10-12 sets for bigger bodyparts, 6-10 for smaller. Rest periods are between 30-45 seconds for all sets.

Thanks so very much. Any help is appreciated.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 20, 2013)

If weight/fat loss has stalled then it's most likely diet related or your body has begun to fight back by altering hormone levels such as T4/TSH, leptin, and ghrelin which could also end up affecting your insulin sensitivity. If you've been on a caloric deficit for a long time without some sort of refeed to help manipulate your hormones I'd suggest trying it out to see if you can jump start your cut. 

Having said that, yes T3/Cytomel promotes proteolysis over protein synthesis which in effect makes it catabolic. You will lose muscle running it alone but even TRT doses are enough to spare skeletal muscle. I would never consider running it without some sort of AAS unless I was hypothyroidic. 

You will gain some weight but you just realize there's a distinction between weight gain and fat gain. With the testosterone aromatizing and estradiol levels elevating you'll begin to hold some water but this won't be fat and shouldn't worry you. You may also gain some muscle depending where along in your training career you are (beginner, intermediate, advanced). You should have an issue with losing muscle to gain it back again later...it is inefficient. Just run some test with it or don't run it at all. If you run testosterone you should also get some blood work done consisting of a CBC panel, metabolic panel, LH, FSH, total testosterone, and estradiol. You'll need an AI, HCG, and Nolva/clomid for PCT. 

If you decide to run AAS and T3 then run the Cyp for at least 12wks and wait 2wks before starting the T3. Is also suggest raising the T3 dosage to 75-100mcg/day. 

I'd ditch the OTC fat burner as 99% of them are plain garbage and ineffective. I'd also ditch the macro split for your diet as it's leaving you slightly deficient in dietary fat IMO. Base your macros off your stats not a percentage. 

If you need diet help, Spongy is a moderator and sponsor here and the diet guru. You can PM or email him to become a client or you can make a thread in the diet section with your full stats goals, and a proposed diet with macros and calorie totals and we can help you tweak it. 

Hope this helps


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## deicide (Dec 20, 2013)

Thank you so much for your information, as well as your time and knowledge. It is appreciated more than you know. If I may ask a couple of questions for clarification, you mention increasing the t3 to 75-100 mcg./day. Is this for the entire 6 weeks? How is the test. dose (300 mg.)? Also you mention not starting the t3 for 2 weeks. Do yo mean start it 2 weeks after starting the test.? Also you mention basing my macros. off my stats and not a percentage. What do you mean by basing it off my stats.? Sorry for all the questions. Again, I really appreciate this. I am okay with gaining weight/strength but dropping it is a whole new ball game to me. Thanks


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 20, 2013)

No problem buddy. 

Some ppl like to pyramid up their T3 dose so as to be cautious for the side effects like increased temperature, I've heard some experience heartburn, etc. I don't get much in the way of sides with T3 so I go straight to the dose I know I took rate well that gives good results which is ~125mcg. So you can choose to pyramid up from 50mcg and asses from there or go straight into the higher dose of 75-100mcg or even higher depending on your response to the dose. Whatever dose you land with just run it until you stop the testosterone (or the 6wks if you want). 

300mg is higher than almost all TRT doses and should certainly put you above 1200ng/dL for serum levels which is fine to help maintain muscle mass. 

Yes I'd start the T3 2wks after starting the test to allow your levels to come up. T3 will begin to work pretty quickly while testosterone cypionate will take longer to metabolize. 

By basing your macros off percentages I mean don't do 40% carbs 40% protein and 20% fat or any other percentages. It can leave you deficient in certain macros depending on the calorie level. For instance, 20% dietary fat of 2300calories is your intake for that macro. That means you take in around 50g of fat which based off your stats I'd personally bump up. I prefer to go no less than .3g/lb of BW in dietary fat. That is enough to maintain hormonal production, aid in satiety, plenty to meet your EFA requirements, etc without taking too much of your calorie allotment. For protein try to maintain at least around 1g/lb of BW as a minimum. 

You're welcome brother, hope to see some progress from you lol. A suggestion if I may, create a log on here. It will increase your accountability towards meeting your goals, it will be a log book for you to gauge progress and make any adjustments that are needed, it will allow us to help motivate you, and also for us to have some sort of history to be able to help you when needed.


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## deicide (Dec 21, 2013)

Thanks very much! I am a bit wary about going into the higher doses so I will start at 50mcg. and guage from there as you suggested. One thing I completely forgot to mention is that I am on t4 as I have no thyroid (thyroidectomy due to thyroid cancer) way back in 1996. Will this fact affect things in any way? I was thinking I will be able to bounce back quicker post t4 due to using a synthetic product for my own thyroid, but I have no idea, and I have looked and looked but have not been able to come across anything about this. I am starting Jan. 4 and I will definitely make a log, awesome idea! In your opinion, how does the training/cardio. look? Thanks again so appreciated. Have a great night.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 23, 2013)

deicide said:


> Thanks very much! I am a bit wary about going into the higher doses so I will start at 50mcg. and guage from there as you suggested. One thing I completely forgot to mention is that I am on t4 as I have no thyroid (thyroidectomy due to thyroid cancer) way back in 1996. Will this fact affect things in any way? I was thinking I will be able to bounce back quicker post t4 due to using a synthetic product for my own thyroid, but I have no idea, and I have looked and looked but have not been able to come across anything about this. I am starting Jan. 4 and I will definitely make a log, awesome idea! In your opinion, how does the training/cardio. look? Thanks again so appreciated. Have a great night.



I would talk to your doc about switching the levothyroxine or synthroid to T3/Cytomel. Many have found T3 to be the superior version as T4 must change to T3 before becoming active and some have problems with this conversion process. 

As to the training, I view it differently than most and don't train body parts...I train lifts and strength/power. I'm biased so not the best source of info if you're looking for objective feedback on a body part split. I think you're overdoing it slightly on the cardio from the beginning. I'm not sure of your training history but lifting and cardio that much in a week requires a decent workload capacity. I'd start off with 2-3 prowler or push/pull sled sessions per week or HIIT. When progress stalls add another session or add some low intensity cardio like treadmill, swimming, biking, a game of basketball or something etc. I personally prefer playing a sport to being on a treadmill for 45min


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## deicide (Dec 24, 2013)

Thanks for the input, especially on the cardio. end of things. I have been rethinking the cardio. idea over the last couple of days and I came to the same conclusion; a little to much. I think I will start at 2x/weekly of hiit and go from there. Work capacity wise I think I would be okay as I have a decent capacity, but I was figuring why start at max. output? Where do I go once progress stalls? My personality I suppose. I always get way to gung ho for things, to my detriment. Thanks as well for the info. on changing from the t4 to t3. 

Have a great night and thanks again.


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