# A solution for my Knees ?



## workingman111 (Nov 23, 2015)

Hello All,
I come here with a problem looking for a solution.  I will be very appreciative to anyone who may be able to help in any way.  I’m currently reading and studying a lot (probably 8 hours just today) so I hope nobody feels I’m here out of laziness, and I’m certainly not here looking to find the easiest way to get huge.  I just want to solve a problem if I can and I’m not looking for shortcuts or ways to avoid work.  
So, my knees hurt, a lot.  I’ve lived with this for long enough that I know there is some kind of damage or condition.  I’ve tried different diets, and variations to my lifestyle and so far the problem only persists if not worsens.  
Before I go any further I will say that I am in the process of finding a doctor I can work with and determining what is wrong, so know that I’m serious.
If I decide it is a good solution I am considering using various AAS and Growth Hormone coupled with training dedicated to promoting repair as I have read some encouraging things about both in being able to heal joint injuries.  I am interested in finding a cure, not a treatment.    So, assuming I have damage or wear (I feel due to injury and perhaps chronic inflammation) I want to know if AAS/HgH use can repair my damage and then how to proceed.  I don’t know if there is a solution here, but If anyone is interested in reading further I will provide more information below.  I just want to be able to walk again without having to think about it, hesitating and holding back.  

Stats
I am 30 now.  Male.  6 Foot Tall.  Naturally lean.  I weigh 160lbs with a low bodyfat percentage though I’m not sure exactly how much.

Symptoms
Persistent pain.  In general it’s a burning pain that is present pretty much all hours of the day but while I am using my knees for anything, even just walking, It is the kind of pain you get from jumping off of something too tall, which under normal circumstances would go away in minutes to hours but for me only goes away or subsides if I get off my feet.

Creakyness in the joint.  When I bend my knees in either direction I can put my finger on the kneecap and actually feel the little creaky pops that are taking place.  They don’t especially hurt each time but I’m also certain it wasn’t always this way. 
Swelling.  Recently my left knee swelled up a bit and I noticed a new pop in it.  It wasn’t red, just swollen.
Limited range of motion.  Recently, along with the swelling in my left knee I also have experienced that if I squat past a certain point the joint seems tight and the pain significantly increases if I push past this point.  Both the limited range of motion and swelling flared up a couple nights after I put in a good leg workout.  Before this it was just persistent burning. 
Loss of mobility.  Anything concerning use of my knees is limited now because in both my conscious and subconscious I know that pushing farther than a certain point results in a prolonged increase in pain which is significant because I interpret this as being associated with injury.  This is now affecting my coordination.
Climbing stairs is easier than descending stairs. 

History
This has been with me now for the past 3 years.  Growing up and throughout my early 20s I had the persistent portion of this problem only a couple times between 20-25, but it went away.   I do not have any medical conditions that I am aware of, though, I wonder whether I have some form of arthritis.  My joints naturally like to pop/crack.  It seems the more I train the less they do this.  In the past I have popped/cracked my knees because they felt like they needed it and it felt good.  I stopped a long time ago just because I had a bad feeling about it.  When it happens accidentally it typically ends up making my knees flare up.

Lifestyle
I work a lot and do have a lot of stress with a full time job and a business of my own.  My sleep is not always what it should be and I am sedentary more than I would like.  When I train I tend to not go at anything easy which is why I feel like, looking back, I have injured myself.  I have had a weakness, I feel, for years and that is that I do too much sitting.  My work necessitates a large amount of this but also I find that my recreation does as well (sitting in front of a computer reading, watching videos or playing games).  When I’m not sitting I find myself on the other extreme, standing for hours, with very little dynamic motion.  I consider both to be pretty sedentary.  I feel that going from this into training has been a shock to my joints, but primarily to my knees and has resulted in damage. 
I eat 3 meals a day and try to sleep 6-8 hours a night.  I eat good food, what I believe is usually referred to as clean, and when I can I try to make it organic.  My diet is something like that of the food pyramid, pretty balanced.  I may be a little light on fruits and meats.  I’ve tried a high fat diet for a while and during that time I may have had a little less pain.  I drink about a gallon of water a day.  Drinking less seems to make the problem worse. 
For the last 3 months I have been training 3 nights a week and have gained 12 pounds which is probably mostly muscle and density.  I go to classes that are a little on the crossfit side if you had to classify it, a mixture of weighs, bodyweight and strongman type exercises.  It tends to be both cardiovascularly demanding and demanding of strength.  I am certainly pushed to my limit each night. 

Thoughts
I feel that for years due to my lifestyle I have kept my body in a state of being torn down rather than building up (catabolic rather than anabolic).  As I understand it, cartilage in joints regenerates much slower than in muscle tissue.  I have read that both Equipoise and Deca are great for joints (because of increases to cartilage synthesis) and I’ve read a few things that say they may be able to actually heal joint injuries.  I’ve heard that to do this you wouldn’t necessarily need the dosage you would to build loads of muscle.  I have also read that Growth Hormone helps repair joints.  This is all extremely interesting to me and so I’m looking for people with experience who I can speak with and learn from. 
I have taken a lot for granted in the past due to possessing youth but knowing that now I am fully ready to change and adopt anything into my lifestyle in order to fix this problem.  I will no doubt learn a lot from visiting the doctor and hopefully with all things considered I can get my legs back and live normally again.  Thanks very much to anyone who has any useful input.


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## BiologicalChemist (Nov 23, 2015)

Have you seen your Doctor? Have you had an X-ray? or MRI to determine if there is any arthritis? Without a doc its hard to say... Knees cause a lot of people pain..especially if you're always doing heavy squats mainly with poor form or heavy knee extensions. You said crossfit? that in my opinion is not good for knees...all those movements and awkward made up exercises look very unnatural and more stressful on the body in my opinion. You would be better off getting on a bodybuilding (full-body) routine which is focused on long-term progressive growth of your body, muscles and strength. This means learning and understanding your own bio-mechanics to consistently use perfect form for each lift, slow controlled contractions, switching up routines for muscle confusion to stimulate growth..diet is key. I'm assuming you know all this..but don't leave out any muscle groups. 

As for your knee/joints and AAS. Not much you can do if you have ****ed up knee's or you lack cartilage (get em checked). With that said, some AAS or GH would definitely help your strength, recovery, and overall progress. I know some AAS are clinically used for osteoarthritis, and enhanced recovery etc. A lot of people claim certain AAS compounds such as DECA, EQ, NPP, anavar help with joints because they increase collagen synthesis significantly more than many other AAS also protein synthesis. The enhanced effects of AAS could possibly AID or "cushion" your knee/joint issue temporarily assuming you don't go crazy with the weight/form. Increased muscle growth and or collagen synthesis could help stabilize the knee while lifting (more control = better form = less wear and tear?) I'm not as familiar with HGH but I know it has many benefits that may be even better than AAS for this..someone else may be able to chime in, I do know GH has unlocalized growth unlike AAS so dosing would be important. ....

Try knee braces/wraps while lifting, running...Modify workouts and use ones that don't hurt as much, stay hydrated, don't run on pavement, wear good shoes, 

pain killers? corticosteroids? surgery? (last resort..)

Good luck.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 23, 2015)

Growth Hormone AAS  deca 19 nor's this and that will not help with that knee thing. The only steroid that a doctor will give you would be cortisone. You may have a problem with the synovial membrane and it is not secreting enough fluid. Popping and cracking joints like knees and knuckles wont cause this problem you have. 

IMO this is stress & diet related and a long restful vacation and a new stress free job would cure it. Realistically your getting older, the heavy lifting and stress is catching up to you so you need to nurture these aches & pains as they arise. Knee wraps joint formulas from the health food store & foods that are good for joints this and that.

Unfortunately there might not be any  GH or steroid miracle fix & a cure may be impossible without surgery and even that isn't 100%.


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## rburdge84 (Nov 23, 2015)

From someone who has had knee reconstruction surgery, its something in would seek help from a doctor. It could be a long list of things that could be causing your pain. For knowni would stay away from the exercises that hurt the knee because it can make it worse. As far as hgh and steroids I have no experience with them but from people I have known and what I have studied they can make it worse. Especially if you're getting stronger with them and your tendons and ligaments aren't used to the stress. IMO crossfit will make it work and not benefit it. Cortisone will only make inflammation and swelling go away which won't fix the problem.  If I were you I would go see a doctor and get his opinion.


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## mickems (Nov 23, 2015)

No sense of even discussing what to do until, you actually talk to the doctor and find out what's wrong.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 23, 2015)

mickems said:


> No sense of even discussing what to do until, you actually talk to the doctor and find out what's wrong.



I agree mick ex rays & even an mri will get to the bottom of it. I highly doubt the case is all that unique & they will outline a few different ways to work on the problem.


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## stonetag (Nov 23, 2015)

To be straight forward none of the shit you mentioned will grow bone, ligaments, tendons, cartilage, or any other part of the knee. MRI, go from there, it's that simple.


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## workingman111 (Nov 24, 2015)

Thank you all for your responses,  I am already searching for a good doctor and will be getting tests/scans and when I have results I will definitely post back.

Biologicalchemist,
Thanks for everything, that was a pretty well rounded response. I've already talked with my trainers and we are going to modify my routines quite a bit to put no more than daily walking/moving strain on my knees until we know what we're dealing with.  I, like you, feel like the right AAS could only help accelerate the positive effects of the proper approach, whatever that turns out to be but I'm not dead set on getting started with a cycle as though its going to be a magic bullet. Good point about hydration. 

Zeigler,
Thanks, I am going to pay more attention to my stress levels and my diet.  I'm looking to target things which may be inflammatory.  We will learn more and I will post back. 

rburdge84,
I'm taking your advice.  Thanks for the perspective, I hope to not need surgery.


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## nightster (Nov 24, 2015)

Good luck, and keep us posted! !


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## rburdge84 (Nov 24, 2015)

Good luck on that knee and keep us posted


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