# Adex or Aromasin



## TLift (Jun 27, 2017)

Aromasin being a suicidal ai makes me lean more towards Adex, after all I've heard about estro crashes.
Also should it be run from day 1 or wait for symptoms?
This is for a 400 cyp test only cycle, no orals or anything with it being my first cycle & all..


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 27, 2017)

I prefer aromasin because its suicidal. I just feel better on it.
Try both and see which one u like. I wouldn't start until u have symptoms or blood work to prove high e.


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 27, 2017)

TLift said:


> Aromasin being a suicidal ai makes me lean more towards Adex, after all I've heard about estro crashes.
> Also should it be run from day 1 or wait for symptoms?
> This is for a 400 cyp test only cycle, no orals or anything with it being my first cycle & all..



You can crash your e2 with either.

What's your post cycle plan?


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## Rumpy (Jun 28, 2017)

Like Ecks, I prefer aromasin because it's a suicidal inhibitor.  Adex is just a blocker, so it leaves all of the aromatase active in your body and once the blocker is gone, you can get estrogen rebound, or a big spike in e2.  Adex has a longer half life, but that's a little deceiving because it is only a blocker.  Stane actually removes aromatase from your body, so after the stane is out of you system your body has to make more aromatase to replace what's gone, which takes time, and comes on more slowly than the rebound you can get with adex.

The other really important thing to remember is if you wait for symptoms, your e2 is already high.  An AI DOES NOT reduce estrogen, it blocks the production of new estrogen, so you have to wait for the stuff in your system to clear.  If you get symptoms, then start taking or increase the dose of your AI, your symptoms are not going to go away over night.  You need to give it time and wait for the estrogen to clear your system and for everything to steady out before judging the effects of your new dosage.  Common mistake is to increase AI, think it's not working because your symptoms didn't go away right away, then increase the dosage and end up crashing your e2.  So weather you start taking it right away or wait, either way, give it time before judging how that dosage is working.


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## TLift (Jun 28, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> You can crash your e2 with either.
> 
> What's your post cycle plan?


clomid/nova


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## TLift (Jun 28, 2017)

Cecil said:


> Like Ecks, I prefer aromasin because it's a suicidal inhibitor.  Adex is just a blocker, so it leaves all of the aromatase active in your body and once the blocker is gone, you can get estrogen rebound, or a big spike in e2.  Adex has a longer half life, but that's a little deceiving because it is only a blocker.  Stane actually removes aromatase from your body, so after the stane is out of you system your body has to make more aromatase to replace what's gone, which takes time, and comes on more slowly than the rebound you can get with adex.
> 
> The other really important thing to remember is if you wait for symptoms, your e2 is already high.  An AI DOES NOT reduce estrogen, it blocks the production of new estrogen, so you have to wait for the stuff in your system to clear.  If you get symptoms, then start taking or increase the dose of your AI, your symptoms are not going to go away over night.  You need to give it time and wait for the estrogen to clear your system and for everything to steady out before judging the effects of your new dosage.  Common mistake is to increase AI, think it's not working because your symptoms didn't go away right away, then increase the dosage and end up crashing your e2.  So weather you start taking it right away or wait, either way, give it time before judging how that dosage is working.


I wasn't aware adex was just a blocker, I'm leaning more towards Aromasin now


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## TLift (Jun 28, 2017)

Thank you for all your help


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## PFM (Jun 28, 2017)

Personal preference. I am using Aro 25mg pill cut in half E3D: 12.5mgs. I can feel the drop and climb. I am going to get a liquid and shoot for 6-8mgs EOD for a flatter result.

I always over-shot Adex until I used a liquid form .1mgs EOD.

I hate AI and suggest you 'come in' as lean as possible. The chance you won't require AI only happens with very low BF <10% for me.


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## TLift (Jun 28, 2017)

I see, good idea. Only thing with that is I don't want to pin more then I have to, although I'm sure I'll get use to it lol. Since I got you guys here Maybe I could ask 1 more question? For cyp what would you guys recommend for quads? I was planning on 23g 1" because I've heard 25g is too thin for the thick cyp oil


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 28, 2017)

Pin more than u have to? U don't inject an ai


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## BigSwolePump (Jun 28, 2017)

TLift said:


> Only thing with that is *I don't want to pin more then I have to*, although I'm sure I'll get use to it lol. I was planning on 23g 1" because I've heard *25g is too thin for the thick cyp oil*


 If I were you, I would do some more research before you pin anything. For starters, You don't inject an AI and secondly, cypionate does not have its own special oil.


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## TLift (Jun 28, 2017)

Cyp is an oil based injectable steroid which makes it thicker and harder to inject lol


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## TLift (Jun 28, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> If I were you, I would do some more research before you pin anything. For starters, You don't inject an AI and secondly, cypionate does not have its own special oil.


I didn't research liquid AI because I have the pills, but good to no thank you! And Cyp is indeed an oil based injectable steroid which makes it thicker and harder to inject lol


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 28, 2017)

TLift said:


> I didn't research liquid AI because I have the pills, but good to no thank you! And Cyp is indeed an oil based injectable steroid which makes it thicker and harder to inject lol



Thicker and harder than what? Water based? 99% of the steroids u will ever use are oil based and will go thru a 25g just fine.


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## ToolSteel (Jun 28, 2017)

I don't have the patience for 25's.


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## Rumpy (Jun 28, 2017)

I pin cyp with 25g X 1.5", but draw with a 23g.  I'm running Test U for TRT right now, now that's some thick shit.

Try setting the cyp vial in some hot water to warm it up, it will flow a lot easier.


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## SFGiants (Jun 29, 2017)

Aromasin........


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 29, 2017)

Aromasin being a suicidal inhibitor offers no benefit over adex and its damn near impossible to crash estrogen with aromasin. There is no such thing as estrogen rebound with adex nor any other AI.


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## ToolSteel (Jun 29, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Aromasin being a suicidal inhibitor offers no benefit over adex and its damn near impossible to crash estrogen with aromasin. There is no such thing as estrogen rebound with adex nor any other AI.


Can you pretty please post a better explanation of this in the studies section when you have time.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 29, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Can you pretty please post a better explanation of this in the studies section when you have time.



I want a handjob and partially used gerbil in return.


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 29, 2017)

I've certainly felt that I've crashed my e with aromasin before. Numerous times.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 29, 2017)

ECKSRATED said:


> I've certainly felt that I've crashed my e with aromasin before. Numerous times.



By crashed I don't mean a little under range but seriously tanked. Take a look at what 25mg and 50mg daily of aromasin do to estradiol levels in this PK study and remember we have much higher levels of E2 when blasting.


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 29, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> By crashed I don't mean a little under range but seriously tanked. Take a look at what 25mg and 50mg daily of aromasin do to estradiol levels in this PK study and remember we have much higher levels of E2 when blasting.



No I believe you. I can't imagine how it would feel if u did tank it to 0.


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 29, 2017)

And I don't like this once a month we get a post from  you doc. R u cheating on us? Are u frequenting bbing.com again?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 30, 2017)

ECKSRATED said:


> And I don't like this once a month we get a post from  you doc. R u cheating on us? Are u frequenting bbing.com again?



I got sick of the site being slow lol. It's annoying to wait 5min for a page to load when you're pooping at work. Plus I've been coming up with a plan to go John Wick on my landlady. But I'm here now. I got the baby powder to rub your quads again!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 30, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Can you pretty please post a better explanation of this in the studies section when you have time.



I might have time this weekend to do something more in depth in the studies section but for now here is a snippet from a talk Regs and I had on this some time ago. 




> The AIs are classified into two types: (a) type I, suicidal or noncompetitive inhibitors; and (b) type II, competitive inhibitors (13 , 14) . Type I inhibitors are steroidal compounds, and type II inhibitors are nonsteroidal drugs. Both types mimic normal substrates (androgens), competing with the substrate for access to the binding site on the enzyme. After initial binding, the next step differs for the two types: once a noncompetitive inhibitor has bound, the enzyme initiates its typical sequence of hydroxylation, but hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Enzyme activity is thus permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed, enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Competitive inhibitors reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and either no enzyme activity is triggered, or it is without effect. The inhibitor can disassociate from the binding site, allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. As a result, the effectiveness of competitive inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of the inhibitor and the substrate. Continued activity requires constant presence of inhibitor.
> 
> To compete for binding to the active site, both competitive and noncompetitive inhibitors must necessarily share important structural features with the endogenous substrate. Noncompetitive inhibitors must also share structural features with androgens, allowing them to interact with the catalytic residual on the enzyme protein. This renders them inherently selective. By contrast, most competitive inhibitors interact with the heme iron, a common feature of all cytochrome P450 enzymes. Some may also bind to the highly conserved oxygen binding site in addition to the substrate binding site. Thus, unless the specificity of a competitive inhibitor is reinforced through other structural features, it may block the activity of a variety of cytochrome P450 enzymes, as does aminoglutethimide.
> 
> Both anastrozole and letrozole are type II nonsteroidal AIs, whereas exemestane has a steroidal structure and is classified as a type I AI, also known as an aromatase inactivator because it irreversibly binds with and permanently inactivates the enzyme. The clinical relevance of these differences in mechanism of action, if any, remains to be established.





> Clinical Pharmacology
> 
> All three drugs (anastrozole, letrozole, and exemestane) are given p.o. as once-daily doses. The recommended daily doses are as follows: for anastrozole, 1 mg; for letrozole, 2.5 mg; and for exemestane, 25 mg. The time needed to reach maximal E2 suppression is 2–4 days for anastrozole and letrozole and 7 days for exemestane (15 , 16) . In the exemestane study, these measurements were done every 7 days, and it is not known whether maximal estrogen suppression after exemestane may have occurred earlier. Anastrozole and exemestane achieve a steady-state drug level by 7 days (17) . In contrast, letrozole has been reported to take 60 days to achieve plasma steady-state levels, which may be reflective of the accumulation that occurs with letrozole over long-term dosing (18) . These data suggested a nonlinear relationship after repeated dose administration of letrozole. The half-lives of anastrozole and exemestane are 41 and 27 h (19 , 20) , respectively, and for letrozole, the half-life has been reported to be up to 4 days (21) . All three AIs effectively reduce E2, E1, and E1S: anastrozole by 81–94% (22 , 23) ; letrozole by 88–98% (23) ; and exemestane by 52–72% (17 , 24) . In one prospective study, a comparative evaluation was carried out to determine the extent of plasma E1, E1S, and E2 suppression after 6 weeks of treatment with either anastrozole or letrozole in postmenopausal women with metastatic disease (23) . There were no significant differences in reduction of plasma E2 by either agent (84.9% and 87.8%, respectively, for anastrozole and letrozole). Anastrozole and letrozole reduced E1 levels by 81.0% and 84.3%, respectively; the extent of this suppression was significantly greater in the letrozole group (P = 0.019). Letrozole reduced plasma E1S levels significantly more than anastrozole (98% versus 93.5%, P = 0.019). The clinical significance of this additional suppression of estrogen by letrozole remains to be defined. There are no comparative studies evaluating exemestane in relation to other agents, but in individual studies, E2 levels were suppressed by 65% with exemestane (17) .


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## SFGiants (Jul 1, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Aromasin being a suicidal inhibitor offers no benefit over adex and its damn near impossible to crash estrogen with aromasin. There is no such thing as estrogen rebound with adex nor any other AI.



When I was powerlifting I could take Aromasin daily then learned it isn't needed daily but either way took I felt fine, with adex I would get very dry joints that would hurt to bench with just 2 plates.

So for me I went by what works and doesn't interfere.

I don't need or use either anymore I just keep levels of test were they don't jack my estro.

I guess my point is just for myself Aromasin felt safer and yes no way to crash on it.

 I ran 25mg a day I ran 25mg every 3r day and even 4th day and all worked great with labs showing, I felt best not taking every day also.

You are better at this then me as I know the reasons behind not needing it daily but would be best coming from you.


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