# Blood results- Test Undecanoate, every 2 weeks



## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

For those of you only interested in the lab results, see the next post. For those that want a bit of background then read below.

_*Edit/update: herp derp.. I miscalculated and thought I was taking the equivalent of 160mg test enanthate; which is already high for me, but I was actually taking the equivalent of 175mg test enanthate. I was already planning on dropping my dose, but definitely will do it now that I realized my math was wrong*_.

I was talking to a few of you about my switch to testosterone Undecanoate for my TRT, and several members were interested in my results because of my injection frequency. I am taking 400mg every 2 weeks, which is equivalent to 160mg of test cyp or enan every week.

This is more than I'd normally take, but I thought I'd start high and dial myself downward if needed.

I've listed the interesting numbers below, everything else is in range. I will probably lower my dose a bit as a result of this lab work and re-test in 6-8 weeks.

I've historically had a hard time getting my E2 out of very bottom of the range... so seeing it elevated is actually kind of nice for me. I have no issues at this E2 level.

The other interesting thing is for the first time my RBC and hematocrit are high.. but this could be because for the first time I also finally have iron levels in the very top of the range. I'll probably donate, but I bet I could correct this by just not cooking in cast iron anymore. It will probably also correct itself when I lower my TRT dosage.


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

400mg testosterone Undecanoate, injected once every 2 weeks. This is the equivalent of 160mg test cyp/enan every week.

*Total testosterone = 942 ng/dL
Free testosterone = 224.1 pg/mL
Estradiol (LC/MS-MS)= 65 pg/mL

RBC = 6.05 million/uL
Hemoglobin = 17.1g/dL (very top edge of the range)
Hematocrit = 53.7%*


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## Test_subject (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> *Total testosterone = 942 ng/dL
> Free testosterone = 224.1 pg/mL
> Estradiol (LC/MS-MS)= 65 pg/mL
> 
> ...


HTC and E2 (depending on the reference range your lab uses) are a bit high but that’s a pretty solid result.

When did you have bloods drawn after pinning?


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> 400mg testosterone Undecanoate, injected once every 2 weeks. This is the equivalent of 160mg test cyp/enan every week.
> 
> *Total testosterone = 942 ng/dL
> Free testosterone = 224.1 pg/mL
> ...



Do you have labs for your Cyp I injections?


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> HTC and E2 (depending on the reference range your lab uses) are a bit high but that’s a pretty solid result.
> 
> When did you have bloods drawn after pinning?


2 weeks after my previous injection, but before I took my required injection for that day.



silentlemon1011 said:


> Do you have labs for your Cyp I injections?


I do, but it's not like for like because the dosage is different. I also tend to get fluctuations from test to test, so I just posted the results from my last test while at TRT dose.

120mg per week (65mg twice per week). I use enanthate, not cypionate.

*Total testosterone = 775mg ng/dL
Free testosterone = not measured
Estradiol (LC/MS-MS) = 14 pg/mL

RBC = 5.39 million/uL
Hemoglobin = 15g/dL
Hematocrit = 47%*

My TRT labs before this one had my total test at 1019 ng/dL, and free test at 328 pg/mL. The rest of the values were similar to what is posted in bold above this.

I have low SHBG naturally, which probably accounts for my higher than normal free test.


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## Test_subject (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> 2 weeks after my previous injection, but before I took my required injection for that day.


That’s a fantastic result.


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> That’s a fantastic result.


Well... My RBC, Hgb, and hematocrit are not fantastic, but are easily fixed.


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## Test_subject (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Well... My RBC, Hgb, and hematocrit are not fantastic, but are easily fixed.


Nothing a bit of aromasin and a blood donation here and there won’t fix.

With as high as your TT and FT are, you could also drop the dose a bit if that’s something you’re interested in.

In any case; those results are pretty strong in favour of test U for TRT


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Nothing a bit of aromasin and a blood donation here and there won’t fix.
> 
> With as high as your TT and FT are, you could also drop the dose a bit if that’s something you’re interested in.


Yep, I will probably donate to get a quick drop in values before my physical with the doc next month... and I will probably lower my dose as well.

I'm just not sure how much to lower it. I was thinking maybe dropping it to 350-375mg every 2 weeks (currently 400mg)


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## Test_subject (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Yep, I will probably donate to get a quick drop in values before my physical with the doc next month... and I will probably lower my dose as well.
> 
> I'm just not sure how much to lower it. I was thinking maybe dropping it to 350-375mg every 2 weeks (currently 400mg)


Let me know how it goes. I’d love to swap to test U for my TRT but my doctor will only give it to me if we do the retarded jug of oil every three months protocol outlined in the manufacturer’s literature.


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Let me know how it goes. I’d love to swap to test U for my TRT but my doctor will only give it to me if we do the retarded jug of oil every three months protocol outlined in the manufacturer’s literature.


Yeah, that's just stupid. I could see maybe getting away with once a month, but no way would I go for every 3 months.


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## Test_subject (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Yeah, that's just stupid. I could see maybe getting away with once a month, but no way would I go for every 3 months.


He’s a great doctor, but he has concerns with going off-label.


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## TomJ (Apr 8, 2022)

Those results look awesome. 
Do you know what your peak levels look like?

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## Adrenolin (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> 120mg per week (65mg twice per week).


Interesting math there buddy 🤣


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Adrenolin said:


> Interesting math there buddy 🤣


Meant to say 130mg 🥴


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Well shit... I did my math wrong, no wonder I'm all elevated.

200mg of Undecanoate is actually the same as 175mg or test enanthate.... not 160mg. 

So on top of going higher than my normal dose, I miscalculated the ester weights and was taking even more testosterone than I thought I was 🥴.

Definitely going to drop my dose down.


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## lifter6973 (Apr 8, 2022)

@Send0 Thanks for posting. What is the brand of the test?  Is it in Castor oil and prescribed?
Any issues with PIP or thickness of oil flowing through pins?


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Meant to say 130mg 🥴


@Adrenolin thanks for calling out my math.. it made me go back and redo the math for my current dosing as well, and turns out I was not taking the enanthate equivalent that I thought I was. I was actually taking higher than that... double derp 🥴🥴


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> @Send0 Thanks for posting. What is the brand of the test?  Is it in Castor oil and prescribed?
> Any issues with PIP or thickness of oil flowing through pins?


Its my own home brew, so no brand. I use cottonseed oil. Last batch was 250mg/ml, and this most recent batch is 300mg/ml.

This test undecanoate is actually much smoother than my enanthate brews, and smoother than the cypionate I use on rare occasion. Absolutely zero pip, and no issues with pushing it through a 25g pin.

My girlfriend also takes 20mg test-u every 2 weeks, from.my same home brew. She pins sub-q with a slin pin. There's a bit more resistance, but also no issues with pushing through a 29g slin pin.


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

@lifter6973 for reference, I believe 250mg/ml is the typical concentration for prescribed testosterone undecanoate.


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## Perrin Aybara (Apr 8, 2022)

I found some article that claimed test undecanoate had a much lower impact on hematocrit than cyp or enan. I don't know if they meant using it like it's meant to or not, but it's what it said. I saw it mentioned on Meso awhile back and did some digging. 

Here's a screenshot from the article. Don't know how legit it is.


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## ATLRigger (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> 400mg testosterone Undecanoate, injected once every 2 weeks. This is the equivalent of 160mg test cyp/enan every week.
> 
> *Total testosterone = 942 ng/dL
> Free testosterone = 224.1 pg/mL
> ...


Free test at 25% of total?!? It should be 2-3%!!!
I don’t know about correlation between iron level and blood thickness. Interested to see others chime in.  
Also why are u slamming once every two weeks?


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## lifter6973 (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> @lifter6973 for reference, I believe 250mg/ml is the typical concentration for prescribed testosterone undecanoate.


I believe so and they start you with 3 ml and I cant remember then you take 1 ml two weeks later then after that 1 ml monthly I believe.  Something like that.
For TRT would be nicer if it keeps test stable because of less pins.


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> Free test at 25% of total?!? It should be 2-3%!!!
> I don’t know about correlation between iron level and blood thickness. Interested to see others chime in.
> Also why are u slamming once every two weeks?


It's not 25% of total.

Total is measured in ng/dL, free is measured in pg/mL. My free test is 224 pg/mL, which is equivalent of 22.4 ng/dL. My total testosterone is 942ng/dL.  (22.4 / 942) * 100 = ~2.4%

I am taking testosterone undecanoate, which has a half life of ~21 days when using a carrier oil other than castor. With castor oil it has a half life of 32 days. I don't need to pin more than once every 2 weeks, as my blood work clearly indicates.


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## Test_subject (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Well shit... I did my math wrong, no wonder I'm all elevated.
> 
> 200mg of Undecanoate is actually the same as 175mg or test enanthate.... not 160mg.
> 
> ...


Well that answers your dilemma over what to lower the dose to.

350 it is!

Edit. Technically 320, but who wants to measure 320?


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## ATLRigger (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> It's not 25% of total.
> 
> Total is measured in ng/dL, free is measured in pg/mL. My free test is 224 pg/mL, which is equivalent of 22.4 ng/dL. My total testosterone is 942ng/dL.  (22.4 / 942) * 100 = ~2.4%
> 
> I am taking testosterone undecanoate, which has a half life of ~21 days when using a carrier oil other than castor. With castle oil it has a half life of 32 days. I don't need to pin more than once every 2 weeks, as my blood work clearly indicates.


Oh!


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## Adrenolin (Apr 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Its my own home brew, so no brand. I use cottonseed oil. Last batch was 250mg/ml, and this most recent batch is 300mg/ml


About 1.2mL every 2wks to hit your 160mg/wk test e equivalent?


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Adrenolin said:


> About 1.2mL every 2wks to hit your 160mg/wk test e equivalent?


Yep, pretty close. I'll probably actually drop down to 340mg and see where that puts me first.

It's just TRT, so I care more about my other health markers being good than I do about hitting the top of the reference range for testosterone. I'll focus on test values only when I run my 1-2 blasts per year 😁


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## Send0 (Apr 8, 2022)

Perrin Aybara said:


> I found some article that claimed test undecanoate had a much lower impact on hematocrit than cyp or enan. I don't know if they meant using it like it's meant to or not, but it's what it said. I saw it mentioned on Meso awhile back and did some digging.
> 
> Here's a screenshot from the article. Don't know how legit it is.
> 
> ...


That's interesting, I'll search pubmed over the weekend for any studies or papers on the subject.

I also had just gotten back on a business trip from Vegas. I did do cardio and lift while out, but my water intake was not the best, and alcohol consumption was not my norm. Sleep wasn't the best either. Also lots of eating out with executives and vendors; good food but probably not as healthy as I would cook it.

Nothing crazy by any means, but these could have effected my hematocrit. Although I wouldn't expect it to be the reason for my high RBC.

I'm still going to drop my dose a bit. I mean if I'm 924 ng/dL at trough, then I'm going to guestimate I'm at about 1200-1400 at peak. I don't need this much test for TRT, I can afford to drop it by 100-200 points.


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## Achilleus (Apr 9, 2022)

Posting so I can read this later when I get home. I’m interested to see peoples feed back on long esters


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## GSgator (Apr 9, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Let me know how it goes. I’d love to swap to test U for my TRT but my doctor will only give it to me if we do the retarded jug of oil every three months protocol outlined in the manufacturer’s literature.


That’s how I started out 1000mg every 10 weeks then I did 500mg every 6-8 weeks. I don’t have bloods but I felt after week 4 it cleared my system so I went back to Cyp shots EW. I like this research Sendo I can’t argue I loved the pinning schedule even every 2 weeks would be nice. I wonder if you could bump it up to 600mg  and get away with once a month  it’s still more volume though.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

GSgator said:


> That’s how I started out 1000mg every 10 weeks then I did 500mg every 6-8 weeks. I don’t have bloods but I felt after week 4 it cleared my system so I went back to Cyp shots EW. I like this research Sendo I can’t argue I loved the pinning schedule even every 2 weeks would be nice. I wonder if you could bump it up to 600mg  and get away with once a month  it’s still more volume though.


I bet you could go once a month. 

I think it was rippedzilla who does it every 4 weeks, but I don't recall his dose. Don't quote me on that, but for some reason I thought I remembered seeing a post where he mentioned it.


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## Test_subject (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I bet you could go once a month.
> 
> I think it was rippedzilla who does it every 4 weeks, but I don't recall his dose. Don't quote me on that, but for some reason I thought I remembered seeing a post where he mentioned it.


If you were using Nebido (or making your own with castor oil) I think you could absolutely get away with once a month. 

The half life in castor oil is ridiculously long.  IIRC the manufacturer claims around 50 days.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> If you were using Nebido (or making your own with castor oil) I think you could absolutely get away with once a month.
> 
> The half life in castor oil is ridiculously long.  IIRC the manufacturer claims around 50 days.


I thought it was 32 days... regardless, only reason I didn't go with castor is because I had this idea in my head of how hard it'd be to push through needle and I didn't like that idea 😅


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## Test_subject (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I thought it was 32 days... regardless, only reason I didn't go with castor is because I had this idea in my head of how hard it'd be to push through needle and I didn't like that idea 😅


Castor oil is definitely thick as fuck.

Cottonseed oil has a viscosity of ~62 cP while castor oil’s is ~580 cP, both at room temperature.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 9, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> If you were using Nebido (or making your own with castor oil) I think you could absolutely get away with once a month.
> 
> The half life in castor oil is ridiculously long.  IIRC the manufacturer claims around 50 days.



Yeah 32 or 35
Still a crazy half life
But it's like trying to push used motor oil through a rig, like 15 fucking minutes per bolus dose


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> But it's like trying to push used motor oil through a rig, like 15 fucking minutes per bolus dose


Yeah, that's the thought that went through my head.... and I said nope and proceeded to grab the cottonseed oil instead 😅

Judging by my one test, I'd say CSO is "good enough"


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## GSgator (Apr 9, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Yeah 32 or 35
> Still a crazy half life
> But it's like trying to push used motor oil through a rig, like 15 fucking minutes per bolus dose


I wouldn’t be able to do that. I’ve missed sized some pins recently and they had me pushing damn near as hard as I could and the  PiP from that 10 minutes of hell hurts worse then hitting a nerve. I don’t feel like using a 21g I used those harpoons in 1.5 when I was a newbie .


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

For castor oil, I imagine using a slin pin would be an absolute must. Just so you can get a massive amount of pressure over a small area.


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## GSgator (Apr 9, 2022)

I just did a sub Q shot with deca that barley pushed threw one . I will have to check I think it’s a 30g tho.


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## lifter6973 (Apr 9, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Castor oil is definitely thick as fuck.
> 
> Cottonseed oil has a viscosity of ~62 cP while castor oil’s is ~580 cP, both at room temperature.


I have one vial in castor oil. Don't know if I will ever use it. I dont know how much one vial do for me. I guess I have been scared of the thickness and potential PIP.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> I have one vial in castor oil. Don't know if I will ever use it. I dont know how much one vial do for me. I guess I have been scared of the thickness and potential PIP.


Can't speak for castor oil, but mine that I brewed is CSO is literally the smoothest thing I ever pinned. I was bracing myself for the worst, so getting zero pip over the last 3-4 months really surprised me.


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## lifter6973 (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Can't speak for castor oil, but mine that I brewed is CSO is literally the smoothest thing I ever pinned. I was bracing myself for the worst, so getting zero pip over the last 3-4 months really surprised me.


ahh, so you brew most of your stuff in CSO?  That is good.  MCT is hit or miss for me as far as PIP which I heard could have to do with the quality of MCT. CSO and GSO and even peach oil Ive never had issues with.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> ahh, so you brew most of your stuff in CSO?  That is good.  MCT is hit or miss for me as far as PIP which I heard could have to do with the quality of MCT. CSO and GSO and even peach oil Ive never had issues with.


Yeah CSO is my main go to now.

I tried brewing in Mig840, but it didn't agree with my body. Constant pip or lumps..it's a shame since I have a liter of this stuff.

I tried brewing with MCT, and that was hit or miss for PIP.

I do like grapeseed oil, but CSO is so damn cheap and flows well that I haven't bothered using anything but cottonseed for a long time.

I hear some guys use pure EO, and say it's super smooth. I don't know myself, and not sure I want to try since I've seen how it eats stoppers. Maybe one day I'll get brave and try to make a high concentration solution, and use a little EO to make it hold... but for now I'll stick to just BB + BA + Oil.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

So here's the non scientific way I'm going to reduce my dose.

I think a 100-150pt drop in total test will be good enough to bring my other biomarkers down to an acceptable level.

So going from 942 to 800 ng/dL is a 15% drop. I'm going to remove 15% of my test undecanoate dose; 400 - 15% = 340mg every 2 weeks.

I'll do that for a few months, re-test, and see where that puts me. This is one of the annoying things about test undecanoate.. it takes so long before you level out and can actually test 😭


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## lifter6973 (Apr 9, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Yeah CSO is my main go to now.
> 
> I tried brewing in Mig840, but it didn't agree with my body. Constant pip or lumps..it's a shame since I have a liter of this stuff.
> 
> ...


You are probably like me, I wouldn't go with EO if I were you. Not as bad as mig840 with the lumps and traveling redness but EO still leaves pretty decent lumps. 
Sounds like you should just stick with what is working, CSO.


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## Send0 (Apr 9, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> You are probably like me, I wouldn't go with EO if I were you. Not as bad as mig840 with the lumps and traveling redness but EO still leaves pretty decent lumps.
> Sounds like you should just stick with what is working, CSO.


I'm just curious... did you use pure EO, or was your experience with a blend?


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## Test_subject (Apr 9, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Yeah 32 or 35
> Still a crazy half life
> But it's like trying to push used motor oil through a rig, like 15 fucking minutes per bolus dose


Just grab yourself a caulking gun and fucking send it bud.

Don’t be ten-ply.


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## GSgator (Apr 9, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Just grab yourself a caulking gun and fucking send it bud.
> 
> Don’t be ten-ply


Holy shit I could see the wife’s face when walking in and seeing this. 

Last week I did a quad shot I used a 27g pin. I must of hit scar tissue as I begin to start pushing as hard as possible it literally just blows out. I’ve got oil all over the place the syringe blew out all that’s left is the needle hanging out of my quad. I immediately thought oh shit I snapped the needle fortunately it was intacted.


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## wsmwannabe (Apr 9, 2022)

I brewed up some test U in MCT that I plan to pin weekly, or maybe every other week. I like this thread, it has given me confidence to try this even sooner than I had planned


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## Send0 (Apr 10, 2022)

wsmwannabe said:


> I brewed up some test U in MCT that I plan to pin weekly, or maybe every other week. I like this thread, it has given me confidence to try this even sooner than I had planned


Half life is likely lower when in MCT, by how much I couldn't say.

whether you go weekly or every other week, I would recommend front loading the first pin to get your levels up fast. Then go to your normal dosage amount for the following injections for at least 6 weeks. Get lab work and adjust dosage/frequency as required.

I am really enjoying pinning once every 2 weeks. I feel no different than if I was taking cypionate or enanthate 2x per week.


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## wsmwannabe (Apr 10, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Half life is likely lower when in MCT, by how much I couldn't say.
> 
> whether you go weekly or every other week, I would recommend front loading the first pin to get your levels up fast. Then go to your normal dosage amount for the following injections for at least 6 weeks. Get lab work and adjust dosage/frequency as required.
> 
> I am really enjoying pinning once every 2 weeks. I feel no different than if I was taking cypionate or enanthate 2x per week.


Yea my plan was actually to front load the first two pins, looking at steroidplotter (which I understand is just a guide) it appears it’ll take the first two pins, doubled up, to get to right about where I want to keep my levels on a weekly basis.

I have to agree though, MCT probably does give a shorter half life for TU, hopefully not less than two weeks though. Even if I pinned weekly, it would still cut my frequency in half


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## lifter6973 (Apr 10, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I'm just curious... did you use pure EO, or was your experience with a blend?


one was a blend and that was hell, the other was pure EO and not as bad but the knots lasted a good 5 days


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## Send0 (Apr 10, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> one was a blend and that was hell, the other was pure EO and not as bad but the knots lasted a good 5 days


Yeah, hard pass from me then. I'll just keep brewing with my oils of choice and call it done.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Update... I'm going to try once a week injections. I keep getting back acne, and I never got that with test-e. 

I'm hoping more frequent injections will help solve the issue. We will see. In the mean time I'm taking cephalexin to get rid of the existing bacne that's developed.

Other than that I feel great going with injections every 2 weeks. If people are not sensitive to acne then I highly recommend it.

I'll update again if going to once a week injections solves the issue.


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## lifter6973 (May 21, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Update... I'm going to try once a week injections. I keep getting back acne, and I never got that with test-e.
> 
> I'm hoping more frequent injections will help solve the issue. We will see. In the mean time I'm taking cephalexin to get rid of the existing bacne that's developed.
> 
> ...


why cephalexin?  Doxycycline or minocycline probably better and you can get those in fish form too. If you cant from your place lmk and Ill give you a link


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> why cephalexin?  Doxycycline or minocycline probably better and you can get those in fish form too. If you cant from your place lmk and Ill give you a link


Because I already have it on hand, and dermatologists prescribe it for this purpose, and it works very well for me.

I'll still take the link though. The place I get my stuff doesn't carry doxycycline for fish.


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## lifter6973 (May 22, 2022)

Here you go.  A little pricey but they are quite reliable and quick.



			Fish Antibiotics in Capsules and Tablets


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## lifter6973 (May 22, 2022)

PS I just saw they switched manufacturers due to backorder issues with the one they used the most. I have not tried the new manufacturer they are currently using.


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## Send0 (May 22, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> Here you go.  A little pricey but they are quite reliable and quick.
> 
> 
> 
> Fish Antibiotics in Capsules and Tablets





lifter6973 said:


> PS I just saw they switched manufacturers due to backorder issues with the one they used the most. I have not tried the new manufacturer they are currently using.


Thanks man. I'm not a prepper, but I like having all types of antibiotics on hand. I appreciate the link.


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## Clyde (May 23, 2022)

I've read through this and either missed the "when blood was drawn" or it's not here. So if you're using T undecanoate (long 1/2 life) "400mg every 2 weeks", when did you get your blood draw in relation to the last injection?

I've seen graphs that showed a huge rise in T shortly after an injection, with a fast drop to less than 1/4 the initial spike, that then slowly tapered off over time. This was regardless of the ester. IIRC, the longer esters just tapered off quicker after the initial big surge.

Hypothetically, lets say the undecanoate ester has a half life of 15 days. Wouldn't there be a much larger quantity of the ester removed from the T before day 15, taking into account the initial post injection surge? So wouldn't _when_ you had the blood drawn have a significant influence on plasma T levels?

I understand the desire to keep T serum levels steady. I see proponents of daily injections using enanthate and cypionate esters (~5 and 7 day 1/2 lives) to eliminate the post inj spike.

Years ago, I used to use an inj schedule of every 4 days with the enanthate ester. What I _think_ I'm learning now is that every 4 days was not often enough. Back when I did every 4 days, no one was doing blood tests.

I'm somewhat confused about injection frequency relating to half life now. Seems there's quite a lot of  contradictory info, or I'm not understanding this. Also, is there an optimal time for a blood draw in relation to last inj with different esters?


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## Send0 (May 23, 2022)

Clyde said:


> I've read through this and either missed the "when blood was drawn" or it's not here. So if you're using T undecanoate (long 1/2 life) "400mg every 2 weeks", when did you get your blood draw in relation to the last injection?
> 
> I've seen graphs that showed a huge rise in T shortly after an injection, with a fast drop to less than 1/4 the initial spike, that then slowly tapered off over time. This was regardless of the ester. IIRC, the longer esters just tapered off quicker after the initial big surge.
> 
> ...


You missed it.. I said I had blood drawn 14 days later, prior to taking my shot that morning

You wrote a lot. The answer to what you wrote is that it depends on carrier oil, injection location, sub-q vs IM, whether a depot is built up, and each individual's unique metabolism of the drug being processed.

Don't think to hard about these things. Pick an injection frequency that works best for you...end of story.


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## Send0 (Sep 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Update... I'm going to try once a week injections. I keep getting back acne, and I never got that with test-e.
> 
> I'm hoping more frequent injections will help solve the issue. We will see. In the mean time I'm taking cephalexin to get rid of the existing bacne that's developed.
> 
> ...


So another update. The back acne I got while using test-u never fully went away. Even while/after using doxycycline for 2 months it was there in a fairly significant way (for me and my past acne experiences anyway). Even after reducing my dosage it never got better.

When I dropped doxycycline after taking it for 2 months the back acne just got worse, even while running the lower TRT dose.

Defying all sense of logic or reason, after dealing with this for 8 months straight I decided to try going back to testosterone enanthate to see if it would change anything. Sure enough, over the last 4 weeks the back acne has been going away.

I don't understand why I was effected this way, because the ester should not change anything. I also don't think it's because the test levels had higher trough levels, because I can easily run a 500mg blast of test-e for 16+ weeks and never get acne. So... 🤷‍♂️. I'm going to stick with enanthate for now.

Maybe at some point I'll try buying test-u from a reputable source instead of using this raw.... just to see if my experience is different, but for now I'm tapping out on the test-u.

It's a shame, because I liked pinning once every 2 weeks in the beginning. So convenient, and made going on long trips very easy. Oh well.. I'll still save it for scenario where I'm gone for 2-3 weeks at a time, but I won't be taking it as my standard TRT for now.


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## Test_subject (Sep 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> So another update. The back acne I got while using test-u never fully went away. Even while/after using doxycycline for 2 months it was there in a fairly significant way (for me and my past acne experiences anyway). Even after reducing my dosage it never got better.
> 
> When I dropped doxycycline after taking it for 2 months the back acne just got worse, even while running the lower TRT dose.
> 
> ...


That’s weird. I wonder if you were getting bigger hormone fluctuations with the test U because of the every two week dosing. 

I’ve tried talking my dr into letting me try Aveed without the ridiculous on-label dosing protocol (every ten weeks) , but he’s wary of going off-label for it.


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## Send0 (Sep 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> That’s weird. I wonder if you were getting bigger hormone fluctuations with the test U because of the every two week dosing.
> 
> I’ve tried talking my dr into letting me try Aveed without the ridiculous on-label dosing protocol (every ten weeks) , but he’s wary of going off-label for it.


I mean test-u is a slow ester, after 2 weeks I'd still be at 900ng/dL total. I should add that I did go to once a week dosing for 4 months and saw zero improvement.

I never tested what my levels were 1 day post injection to see what the peak would have been, but I would think I have bigger fluctuations with enanthate than undecanoate, especially when you consider the peaks and troughs seen during a 500mg/week enanthate blast.

If I ever give undecanoate a round 2 attempt, then I'll definitely measure both peak and trough levels. It would be interesting to see if nothing else.


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## Clyde (Sep 5, 2022)

Send0 said:


> If I ever give undecanoate a round 2 attempt, then I'll definitely measure both peak and trough levels. It would be interesting to see if nothing else.


Interesting and some good info here. Thanks for sharing.

I got a vial of Test U to try as a replacement for Test C in my TRT+ protocol. I'm doing OK (no sides) on once a week inj schedule with Test C.

Initially, I plan on the same inj schedule with the Test U, but thinking possibly more even T levels throughout the week. Just started the Test U today. I add 100-150mg Mast E weekly as the +, to TRT.

I've thought about an approximately every 10th day Test U inj schedule in the future, but thinking this wouldn't be ideal for the Mast enanthate ester. I'm all for as infrequent inj schedule as reasonable for TRT though, so I may just try streching the Mast E out to every 10 days a well.


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## Oml (Sep 5, 2022)

I can somewhat contribute here. I’m supposed to be Irelands equivalent of TRT,  but they use gels first and then prescribe Nebido after two years, for €400 every 3-6 months. So I use UGL labs. The 175mg values are using Hilma, and the lower usage is from Driada.

175mg test U per week gets my total test to 977ng/dl. No AI needed, done this for 20+ weeks while Mid mild blasts.

175mg test U every 10 days gets my total test to 834ng/dl. No AI needed. Have don’t this also for months on end.

And 100mg test U every 12 days gets my total test to 440ng/dl. Feel like a hammered shit on this dosage and lose size rather fast. Never done this for more than 12 weeks.

I always frontload my cruise/TRT.all bloods were taken ONE DAY BEFORE my next pin was due.


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