# is this sticky kinda lame ?



## John Ziegler (Oct 21, 2019)

seems like this oughta been updated a long time ago

get rid of that dbol part at least anyway 

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3728-First-Cycle-All-You-Need-to-Know


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## Tren4Life (Oct 21, 2019)

There’s nothing wrong with that thread at all.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 21, 2019)

I like Ziggy's headspace here - always a good idea to make sure our stickies reflect the latest thinking on whatever topic they serve, as they're intended to serve as foundational reading for new members on critical topics (eg. yer 1st cycle). Dunno if I see much wrong with the sticky in question here, I could get with modifying it to reflect orals as optional for example, or perhaps revisiting the AI suggestions (suggested doses may be a bit high for some) but I could see reviewing stickies on a regular cadence being a good thing for the board.


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## Seeker (Oct 21, 2019)

Yes this sticky was supposed to be revised by Zilla a long time ago. We even took a vote on the board and the majority agreed. From the very beginning I said this sticky needs to be Changed or "unstuck" besides leaving an oral off your 1st cycle, you definitely don't need 100 mgs of clomid ed for pct! Complete overkill.


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## gymrat827 (Oct 21, 2019)

zilla and Get some both know their stuff but having an oral in your first runs prolly gives us more & more questions about adding one into your first run

We could remove the dbol portion...???  

thoughts..?


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## automatondan (Oct 21, 2019)

Can't we just revise/edit it...? Take out the dbol and change the PCT protocol...?

I feel like waiting for a whole new stickie to be written might be "perfection is the enemy of good" situation...


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## Seeker (Oct 21, 2019)

gymrat827 said:


> zilla and Get some both know their stuff but having an oral in your first runs prolly gives us more & more questions about adding one into your first run
> 
> We could remove the dbol portion...???
> 
> thoughts..?



lol anyone of us can revise it. Zilla had volunteered so I was holding him to it. lol. actually you have to be a mod to revise someone else's thread.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 21, 2019)

Lets talk it out here then - good thread idea, Ziggy - and I or one of the other Mods can make the changes.

Add yer suggested revisions and lets haggle.

Thought: remove the Dbol for a 1st cycle.


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## Tren4Life (Oct 21, 2019)

NbleSavage said:


> Lets talk it out here then - good thread idea, Ziggy - and I or one of the other Mods can make the changes.
> 
> Add yer suggested revisions and lets haggle.
> 
> Thought: remove the Dbol for a 1st cycle.




Awww man. My first cycle was dbol only.


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## CJ (Oct 21, 2019)

Keep it simple, test only, no orals. 

Half these fools won't get an AI beforehand, and giving them the green light to run Dbol might not turn out well. Heck, we had that older guy recently who was adamant about a 4-5 week Tren and Winny first cycle! :32 (18):


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## John Ziegler (Oct 22, 2019)

Tren4Life said:


> Awww man. My first cycle was dbol only.



ya, but that was back in the 70s before anyone knew any better.


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## Trump (Oct 22, 2019)

what’s wrong with tren and winstrol age 63??




CJ275 said:


> Keep it simple, test only, no orals.
> 
> Half these fools won't get an AI beforehand, and giving them the green light to run Dbol might not turn out well. Heck, we had that older guy recently who was adamant about a 4-5 week Tren and Winny first cycle! :32 (18):


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## NbleSavage (Oct 22, 2019)

Tren4Life said:


> Awww man. My first cycle was dbol only.



I miss the 80s too, man...


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## NbleSavage (Oct 22, 2019)

So remove Dbol. What other changes? Keep in mind this will likely be the sticky we refer to most often, as it addresses the most common question posed here.


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## DNW (Oct 22, 2019)

Clomid 50/50/25/25


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## CJ (Oct 22, 2019)

Maybe at least a mention of bloodwork?


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## gymrat827 (Oct 22, 2019)

Seeker said:


> lol anyone of us can revise it. Zilla had volunteered so I was holding him to it. lol. actually you have to be a mod to revise someone else's thread.



im a mod, ill PM one of you older bucks for IT advice tho


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 26, 2019)

The way things are going, don't expect me to produce a new version of that anytime soon. Being honest, I barely get time to check in as it is these days so the chances of me being able to sit down and produce any sort of quality thread is close to zero. 

In notes form, it basically boils down to this:
- Test only. E/C is fine but I'd prefer Prop for a 1st timer. I was going to experiment with this in an upcoming cycle to see how annoying the EOD pinning would be but, again, life gets in the way. 
- Doses varying from 300-600mg depending on how cautious you want to be. 
- Cycle length from 12-16 weeks based, again, on how cautious you want to play this. 
- hCG 250iu 2x week from the start ran alongside Test until a few days before PCT (it's out of the system within days). I see this as a must, rather than optional, for those who want to maximize their chances of recovery post-cycle. 
- AI can be taken as needed (0.25-0.5mg Adex 2x week,/6.25mg ED of Aromasin/adjust as dictated by bloodwork) but if you want to be cautious: start it automatically 2 weeks into a E/C cycle and once you're 2 shots into a Prop cycle. Something like that. My memory is iffy on these details. 
- Bloodwork pre/mid/post cycle. CBC, metabolic panel, TT, E2 (sensitive preferably), Prolactin, TSH - the usual stuff that is highlighted in another sticky by Doc. 
- PCT, off the top of my head, would be 75/50/50/50 for Clomid & 40/20/20/20 for Nolva. Both taken together of course. PCT would begin 2 weeks post Test E/C cycles and, like, 3 days after a Prop cycle. 

I might be missing something but that ^^^ is the basic gist of what I would suggest. Totally understand people not wanting to wait for me type it all up properly so more than willing to settle for simply editing the current thread/someone else taking over the reigns


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## Straight30weight (Oct 26, 2019)

I like the idea of prop too for a first cycle. Gets in and out quick.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 28, 2019)

Im not for prop as a first cycle ..Its just to many pins for a inexperienced user..Imo short esters are more advanced


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 28, 2019)

I would just give the first time user the option of using cyp,prop,E or orals If they want ..They are adults


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## Straight30weight (Oct 28, 2019)

Bro Bundy said:


> I would just give the first time user the option of using cyp,prop,E or orals If they want ..They are adults


Rarely is the first time user an adult....


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