# How much protein do you really need?



## ToolSteel (Mar 10, 2017)

Overall this seems to echo most of what's said by the wiser old fukks here. Nice to hear it from another source.


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## Flyingdragon (Mar 10, 2017)

I dont trust guys who use Apples


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## automatondan (Mar 10, 2017)

Thanks for posting TS... good stuff. Time to eat more carbs.


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## widehips71 (Mar 10, 2017)

So how much?  Was there a conclusion?  Seemed to go everywhere but to the point


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## Gofalcons (Mar 10, 2017)

Hmm.. great info very informative.. nice post Tool


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 10, 2017)

Stopped watching 15 secs in when he said protein synthesis doesn't happen all the time. Yes, actually, it does - its a constant everyday, every minute occurrence.


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## BRICKS (Mar 10, 2017)

View attachment 3720


10 char


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## ron1204 (Mar 10, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Stopped watching 15 secs in when he said protein synthesis doesn't happen all the time. Yes, actually, it does - its a constant everyday, every minute occurrence.



So how much protein do we really need? Lol 
My takeaway from the video was that we are overeating way too much on protein and that it's getting converted to either carbs or fat.
That we should focus a lot more on carbs. But again, every specialist has a different opinion.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 10, 2017)

ron1204 said:


> So how much protein do we really need? Lol
> My takeaway from the video was that we are overeating way too much on protein and that it's getting converted to either carbs or fat.
> That we should focus a lot more on carbs. But again, every specialist has a different opinion.



There's no chance of protein being converted to fat. The metabolic pathway does exist but it's not going to happen in real life. 

The answer to your question depends on the context but generally 1-1.2g/lb of BW will be plenty


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## DieYoungStrong (Mar 10, 2017)

BRICKS said:


> View attachment 3720
> 
> 
> 10 char



#threadover


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 10, 2017)

ron1204 said:


> So how much protein do we really need?



What Doc said - depends on context. 
In general the younger you are, the fatter you are and the more novice a lifter you are, the lower the protein intake necessary to build mass. This is also influenced by energy balance (less protein needed on a surplus) and your training program (the higher the reliance on muscle damage for growth, the higher the protein needs.

These sort of videos concern me because I have already seen plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting the latest trend is going to be along the lines of "let's see how low we can go with protein and still build mass". Its retarded but then again so are most "trends" with relation to nutrition - people gotta be all cool and go against the grain right?


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## Maijah (Mar 10, 2017)

IMO at least 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight. Anything over 2 gram/lb bodyweight is a waste


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## ToolSteel (Mar 10, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Stopped watching 15 secs in when he said protein synthesis doesn't happen all the time. Yes, actually, it does - its a constant everyday, every minute occurrence.


In that vase, you missed out on some good stuff due to semantics. He could have worded it different yes. But in the context of the entire video, which you didn't watch, it makes sense.  

Just watch the damn video. he doesn't say anything along the lines of your assumptions in your second post.


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 11, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> In that vase, you missed out on some good stuff due to semantics. He could have worded it different yes. But in the context of the entire video, which you didn't watch, it makes sense.
> 
> Just watch the damn video. he doesn't say anything along the lines of your assumptions in your second post.



I watched the video knowing damn well I wasn't going to learn anything but I did for you Tool...for you.

Thankfully 11mins they start talking about protein timing, meal frequency and what not, which makes it interesting - wrong, but interesting.
I'm hearing a lot of stuff about focusing on a "slow trickle" of protein throughout the day rather than "spikes" being better for protein synthesis - wrong. 
The whole slow digestion before you go to bed stuff - wrong. 
In fact, the main point of higher frequency with regular protein throughout the day being the best approach is HIGHLY debatable. I won't say its out & out wrong because the data clearly indicates that both have their positives & negatives but hasn't indicated any out & out winner. 
I'm now going to just spit out whatever is in my head so if this becomes a long-winded essay I apologize in advance. 


Protein timing has been shown to be close to irrelevant for a while now. More recently, and more relevant to this discussion, it was shown that whey protein (fast digesting remember) consumed prewo rather than postwo made absolutely no long term difference for muscle hypertrophy in resistance trained subjects. In other words, the idea that if you're consuming a fast digesting protein then you have a tiny window to get it in or that its going to be mostly wasted is an incorrect one. 

Addressing this protein timing topic from another angle, the "slow trickle" argument, I find this to be completely at odds with the data since we know that muscle protein synthesis as a refractory nature to it, which means that constant supply of protein beyond every 4-5 hours is at best a waste and at worse going to cause long-term desensitization within the amino-acid signalling mechanism and that is a very bad thing. Without causing too many nightmares, it means needing more protein than usual, having to keep up a higher frequency of feeding for the long term and less amino-acid > muscle growth efficiency in general (needing more to do the same job). 

When discussing meal frequency in general, my view has ALWAYS been that you can get away with having as little as 2 meals per day and still be able to build muscle. Very recently, this paper looked at what would happen if one group consumed ALL of their calories within an 8 hour window utilizing the well known 16/8 IF protocol compared to control. Both groups involved resistance-trained males, self-reported maintenance diets and the only difference was the timing restriction. 
Both groups maintained muscle & strength but the IF group also lost fat. Judging by the fact that a bunch of hormones tanked only in the IF group, that means they eat less than they were supposed to AND STILL maintained muscle. AFAIC, data like this (it is not the only IF study showing reduced meal frequency not to impact muscle) completely refutes the opinion that you must eating a bunch of meals throughout the day, steady protein doses, etc. 

Finally, the whole slow digestion is best before bed nonsense. 
That same argument as been applied to those advocating that you NEED to consume casein, a slow digesting protein, before bed for fear of your muscle disappearing into your dreams. The logic applied in the video is the same, add plenty of fat to a meal to make sure the digestion process is slow because of whatever. 
You'll find plenty of studies claiming to advocate the advantages of casein pre-bed, look into the details, none match for protein between the groups over the long term. Therefore, its the higher protein intake that's making more gainz, not the casein timing. A classic example of such nonsense is seen here when the abstract appears to suggest casein is clearly awesome while ignoring the impact of the 0.6g/kg protein intake difference between the two groups. So yes, slow digesting meals pre-bed do not have any sort of magical anabolic property attached to them. 

At the end of all that (be grateful I'm tired), what is my point?
Meal frequency within a realistic spectrum becomes a moot point as far as muscle growth is concerned. 3-5 meals per day is perfectly fine, a little lower or higher fine too, neither has any clear disadvantages beyond stuff related to adherence. 
Protein timing, again, is a moot point for muscle growth provided sufficient intake is present. 
The rate of digestion for a meal pre-bed is completely irrelevant for the same reasons I've highlighted in the meal/protein frequency discussions because your body doesn't suddenly follow a different method of digestion because you're sleeping.

And NO, I'm not having a go at you or the guys in the vid. The first 11mins was absolutely fine, my initial assumption was indeed wrong, and I don't expect you to know all of this protein shit (you have a life). Just educating the readers is all


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## automatondan (Mar 11, 2017)

Good points here too... Thanks for posting Zilla. Ive actually been really impressed by the IF data I have read... For me though, it comes down to trying to force down calories.... I wish I could get them all in 3 or so meals, but the reality is I need to be eating all day to reach my caloric goal. I might try to shorten my feeding window though to help with bf loss...


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## ToolSteel (Mar 11, 2017)

Thank you Zilla. That's all I wanted. To be blunt, it pissed me a bit to have someone I look up to just shit on a post without looking into it. You didn't earn this level of respect by being a wanker. 

This forum has been lacking in useful content for a while, aside from the same speech we have to give 40 greens a week. 
The studies section is great. But other than the dozen of us or so here that actually care about the science, it goes right over the head of the other 99% of the members here. 

The overall message that I took away from the video was that insane protein amounts are pretty much useless, most any diet will work as long as you remember calories are King, and that properly timed carb loads in a deficit can be useful. I was simply putting it out there to stir useful discussion.


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