# TRT risk vs rewards



## Dex (Nov 26, 2021)

Hey guys,

I had been on TRT for over 5 years. Life was good. I was feeling great and was feeling like myself and functioning like a man again. I have been off it for 4 months now and I feel like a piece of crap. I have no energy, no sex drive, loss of muscle and 80 year old erections. My levels were 205 two months after ending TRT and maybe lower now (feel lower for sure)

Why am I off of TRT? I had multiple pulmonary embolism and some heart strain. I am now on lifetime blood thinners, joy. 

So, do I continue to feel and live like an elderly man? Or, do I go back on TRT and hope that the blood thinners work and  help me get another 20 good years? FYI, I just hit the big 40 not that long ago. I don't know if I can/want to live like this for much longer. My wife feels bad for me and I feel even worse for her. Another FYI, I have a life insurance in place with 10x my annual salary to help my family out.

Anyone have experience with clotting/blood thinners and TRT?

Thanks,

Dex


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## Jonjon (Nov 26, 2021)

What state are you in


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## Dex (Nov 26, 2021)

Jonjon said:


> What state are you in


A state of depression.


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## Jonjon (Nov 26, 2021)

Dex said:


> A state of depression.


 If you were in Texas I could hook you up with a great Dr that could really help you

I think trt is almost always a healthy decision


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## Dex (Nov 26, 2021)

Jonjon said:


> If you were in Texas I could hook you up with a great Dr that could really help you
> 
> I think trt is almost always a healthy decision


Oh, thanks. I'm not close to Texas but I have resources to obtain it. The issue was just risk vs reward.


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## Jonjon (Nov 26, 2021)

Dex said:


> Oh, thanks. I'm not close to Texas but I have resources to obtain it. The issue was just risk vs reward.



The reason I mentioned is my doc is always debunking the myths that trt is bad for your heart, bad for your prostate, bad for your etc…


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## CJ (Nov 26, 2021)

This is a question for medical professionals. Talk to a few Dr's about this, they're obviously more qualified than we are.


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## Adrenolin (Nov 26, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> This is a question for medical professionals. Talk to a few Dr's about this, they're obviously more qualified than we are.


Let me page our local resident physician

@MuscleMedicineMD


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## Dex (Nov 26, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> This is a question for medical professionals. Talk to a few Dr's about this, they're obviously more qualified than we are.


They can't answer honestly though. They have to be safe and avoid malpractice. And it makes it difficult at times. Primary care physicians are clueless when it comes to TRT. I know more than them about it. 

I've tried to research it. However, I am not able to find any information on Pubmed or New England Journal of Medicine for blood thinners and TRT. Therefore, I was hoping someone here had some personal experience. I can't be the only one with clotting issues. Or maybe I can be.


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## Kraken (Nov 26, 2021)

I don't have any advice to offer, but you do have my sympathy. Hopefully you'll get great advice and figure this out.


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## Dex (Nov 27, 2021)

Kraken said:


> I don't have any advice to offer, but you do have my sympathy. Hopefully you'll get great advice and figure this out.


Thank you.


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## GreatGunz (Nov 27, 2021)

*Bro,
Can I asked what your protocol was!?*


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## Dex (Nov 27, 2021)

GreatGunz said:


> *Bro,
> Can I asked what your protocol was!?*


150mg/wk of test E non pharma.


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## GreatGunz (Nov 27, 2021)

Hemocrit  levels high?


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## Dex (Nov 27, 2021)

GreatGunz said:


> Hemocrit  levels high?


Yep, constantly. I had to keep giving blood. But now I can't donate on blood thinners. My hemaglobin and hematocrit was as high as 21 & 59. It doesn't help that I am at almost 7k feet in elevation (causes more production). At the time of the clots, hematocrit was only 48 in the ER though.


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## GreatGunz (Nov 27, 2021)

Same issue with different esters


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## Mind2muscle (Nov 27, 2021)

As with anything including TRT there are always going to be pros and cons. The questions I’d be asking is what caused the PEs you had…. Was it an elevated hematocrit/hemoglobin level? Genetic predisposition? Physical inactivity? Underlying illnesses? 
Regarding whether or not to resume TRT that all depends on what risk your willing to take. Do you have children? I’m around the same age as you and have been on TRT for a year. So far no issues but I have kids and I think that if I was in your shoes I’d be very reluctant to risk my life for TRT and it’s benefits. Totally understand though that walking around with very little testosterone can very well ruin your life and lead to an unsatisfying existence. Find out all the details surrounding your recent cardiac complications and do what’s best for you and your family. God bless. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dex (Nov 27, 2021)

Mind2muscle said:


> As with anything including TRT there are always going to be pros and cons. The questions I’d be asking is what caused the PEs you had…. Was it an elevated hematocrit/hemoglobin level? Genetic predisposition? Physical inactivity? Underlying illnesses?
> Regarding whether or not to resume TRT that all depends on what risk your willing to take. Do you have children? I’m around the same age as you and have been on TRT for a year. So far no issues but I have kids and I think that if I was in your shoes I’d be very reluctant to risk my life for TRT and it’s benefits. Totally understand though that walking around with very little testosterone can very well ruin your life and lead to an unsatisfying existence. Find out all the details surrounding your recent cardiac complications and do what’s best for you and your family. God bless.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. Yes, I have a family. And I don't want to lose them or leave them too early. However, it might be worse for them to see me almost lifeless. I'm depressed and moody as shit since my hormones are out of wack. I'm almost certain it would lead to a divorce at the least. And I wouldn't blame my wife. I don't like myself with low T either. So without TRT, everyone is guaranteed to suffer. With TRT, they might end up losing me sooner than later. They would have a better me though and would be taken care of financially if something happened to me. 

It is a difficult situation for sure. I was really hoping that someone on here had a history of clots and/or was taking blood thinners to prevent them. I can't believe that I'm the only unlucky mother fucker.


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## lifter6973 (Nov 27, 2021)

Dex said:


> Yep, constantly. I had to keep giving blood. But now I can't donate on blood thinners. My hemaglobin and hematocrit was as high as 21 & 59. It doesn't help that I am at almost 7k feet in elevation (causes more production). At the time of the clots, hematocrit was only 48 in the ER though.


how old are you?


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## MrBafner (Nov 27, 2021)

I have been on TRT since 1987, I'm now 51yo - short story I was in a car accident at 12 and had brain damage, found out at 17 my pituitary gland didn't function at all. Test made me feel sooo good and I stopped getting sick.

Yes, very common when you go off at any age, it is depressing and you feel crappy. Sometimes I get sick of taking the stuff and I feel like crap and go back on and feel good again.

When you are feeling good, people notice and treat you great, when your off people treat you like shit because you feel like shit.

Some human stuff is just far too much for me and I prefer lower dosage injections, but more regular. Some doctors just shove the stuff in and say come back in a couple of weeks. Reandron 1000, which is a 3 monthly injection - wow, 1000mg test in one shot and it lasts maybe 3 weeks and then spend the next 2 months feeling like crap. But the first few days all kinds of people said I was hostile, cranky, looked pissed off.

All I can say to you is find a regular source and just keep it at a constant level to feel good. If you want sports enhancement, then add a little more .. but too much at one time, you will be noticed by other people and you may need supplementary medication to help (like tamoxifen).

Good luck man, I know what you're going through - as many on here would say they understand. But from a guy that has been on it for such a long time - I don't enjoy the stuff, but without it - it's a much worse way of life.


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## FlyingPapaya (Nov 27, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> Let me page our local resident physician
> 
> @MuscleMedicineMD


Lololololololol


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## Iamnatty (Nov 27, 2021)

Dex said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I had been on TRT for over 5 years. Life was good. I was feeling great and was feeling like myself and functioning like a man again. I have been off it for 4 months now and I feel like a piece of crap. I have no energy, no sex drive, loss of muscle and 80 year old erections. My levels were 205 two months after ending TRT and maybe lower now (feel lower for sure)
> 
> ...


Have you been vaccinated?  It has been shown that the vaccine can cause blood clots


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## Rot-Iron66 (Nov 27, 2021)

lifter6973 said:


> how old are you?


Lifter, I believe he mentioned he is only 40... Just a kid really....  (To us older f*&ks)..


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## Gadawg (Nov 27, 2021)

This may not be the issue but it seems like TRT “problems” are most often associated with already unhealthy individuals. Obese, sedentary, etc. Is this the case?


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## Be_A_Hero (Nov 28, 2021)

I was wondering, has TRT been your only use of testosterone or have you done PE’s in the past?


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## Mind2muscle (Nov 28, 2021)

Dex said:


> Thank you. Yes, I have a family. And I don't want to lose them or leave them too early. However, it might be worse for them to see me almost lifeless. I'm depressed and moody as shit since my hormones are out of wack. I'm almost certain it would lead to a divorce at the least. And I wouldn't blame my wife. I don't like myself with low T either. So without TRT, everyone is guaranteed to suffer. With TRT, they might end up losing me sooner than later. They would have a better me though and would be taken care of financially if something happened to me.
> 
> It is a difficult situation for sure. I was really hoping that someone on here had a history of clots and/or was taking blood thinners to prevent them. I can't believe that I'm the only unlucky mother fucker.



I have never had a PE yet and hoping I never do but I do have a genetic condition which puts me at an increased risk of a having an aneurysm. With that said I have been lifting relatively heavy for about twenty years. So far no issues. I feel your pain though because I have a family as well and am on TRT. Sometimes I wonder if I’m better off not being on it but my mood would suffer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dex (Nov 28, 2021)

Gadawg said:


> This may not be the issue but it seems like TRT “problems” are most often associated with already unhealthy individuals. Obese, sedentary, etc. Is this the case?


Sedentary for sure. Not quite obese though. Lost a lot of muscle and only 187lbs now. In the high teens body fat %. All my bloods are good (A1C, cholesterol etc).


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## Dex (Nov 28, 2021)

Be_A_Hero said:


> I was wondering, has TRT been your only use of testosterone or have you done PE’s in the past?


I did a couple cycles  4 years ago and then stayed on TRT. No history of clotting.


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## Iamnatty (Nov 28, 2021)

Dex said:


> I did a couple cycles  4 years ago and then stayed on TRT. No history of clotting.


Have you been vaccinated


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## Human_Backhoe (Nov 28, 2021)

Dex said:


> I did a couple cycles  4 years ago and then stayed on TRT. No history of clotting.



Maybe read into Ment. It has some downsides for sure but is much better on your RBC counts.


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## Dex (Nov 28, 2021)

Iamnatty said:


> Have you been vaccinated


Yep, I was forced when getting a new job (working from home and still required it). This was just 8 weeks ago though and my PE was prior to the jab.


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## shackleford (Nov 28, 2021)

I definitly understand wanting to avoid any further complications related to clotting. Maybe I'm interpreting your posts wrong, but it seems to me that dropping your trt was a knee jerk reaction. Unless I missed it in your posts, I don't think you or your doctors have found the specific cause of your emboli yet, so I think its premature to drop a medical protocol you rely on to keep a hormonal balance. In addition to the lowered quality of life you are experiencing, low testosterone isnt exactly healthy. Are you able to work with a knowledgable Dr to continue your trt? I  hate to see someone in the low t black hole abyss. Also, I too am curious if this is possibly related to the vaccine. This would not be the first incident I have heard of. My wife knows someone (male adult) personally who was very healthy and now on blood thinners for life due to PE and clots in legs after receiving a booster.

Edit, just saw your reply about your vaccine. thanks.


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## Dex (Nov 28, 2021)

shackleford said:


> I definitly understand wanting to avoid any further complications related to clotting. Maybe I'm interpreting your posts wrong, but it seems to me that dropping your trt was a knee jerk reaction. Unless I missed it in your posts, I don't think you or your doctors have found the specific cause of your emboli yet, so I think its premature to drop a medical protocol you rely on to keep a hormonal balance. In addition to the lowered quality of life you are experiencing, low testosterone isnt exactly healthy. Are you able to work with a knowledgable Dr to continue your trt? I  hate to see someone in the low t black hole abyss. Also, I too am curious if this is possibly related to the vaccine. This would not be the first incident I have heard of. My wife knows someone (male adult) personally who was very healthy and now on blood thinners for life due to PE and clots in legs after receiving a booster.
> 
> Edit, just saw your reply about your vaccine. thanks.


Yep, J&J vaccine has been shown to cause clotting issues. My clots came before the vax and I made sure not to get that one and stuck with Pfizer (so I'm told since they didn't allow me to see the vial). 
The life long blood thinners are because the clots originated in my lungs and not in my legs and that is more concerning since you have some warning when you get them in your legs first. 
I'm hoping that if/when I decide to go back on TRT, the blood thinners will be enough to prevent more clots. 
Being on blood thinners at a young age sucks though. I can't do any extreme sports, I have to be nicer to people to avoid fights, can't ride a motorcycle, have to be careful not to slip on ice in the winter, etc.


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## shackleford (Nov 28, 2021)

Dex said:


> Yep, J&J vaccine has been shown to cause clotting issues. My clots came before the vax and I made sure not to get that one and stuck with Pfizer (so I'm told since they didn't allow me to see the vial).
> The life long blood thinners are because the clots originated in my lungs and not in my legs and that is more concerning since you have some warning when you get them in your legs first.
> I'm hoping that if/when I decide to go back on TRT, the blood thinners will be enough to prevent more clots.
> Being on blood thinners at a young age sucks though. I can't do any extreme sports, I have to be nicer to people to avoid fights, can't ride a motorcycle, have to be careful not to slip on ice in the winter, etc.


Its defintly a sucky hand to be dealt. I guess routine injections while on blood thinners is a concern too.


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## JoelR314 (Dec 3, 2021)

If you start Testosterone you can work with the Warafin clinic to get all the levels to the exact level they should be. The dose will be adjusted for any changes in blood levels.
way before I started TRT I had a 6 month period of being sedintary, wake up and go from bed to home office chair, no water (black coffee), no cardio, no MMA, no lifting, just sitting in a chair all day getting up only to get food and coffee. Worked on computer stuff, music, watched youtube, all day then went to bed.
6 months of that (and got fat) and I had a clot. Went to my lung, stayed in hospital for a few days, went home, had really good pain killers for 1 week then started getting back in shape.
But at first I had to go to the blood clinic 2x week. If I ate too much greens or changed my diet it would effect the blood and they would have to raise/lower my blood thinner dose. 
If you start Test then the same process would happen.

After 6 months my clot was 100% gone and I came off blood thinners. No clotting disorder was found. It was assumed to be from dehydration and not moving much.
Years later I started TRT and have not had any issues for 8 years. Once during a quick  cycle (took extra for 5 weeks) my clotting factor was high/normal. But I stay hydrated and do lots of cardio.

But you have to try and understand what the cause was? Blood levels, being sedintary? Many young people got clots during the pandemic from long periods of playing video games. I read several articles about that. So that could do it. 
You might want to wait, do cardio, get bodyfat low and all that. Mine took 6 months to dissapate. So let the clot go away while you get fully in shape. Then introduce T and immediately go back to the blood clinic and see how it effects the blood levels that they monitor.
Low bodyfat, hydration and daily cardio seem to be huge factors in prevention.








						Mechanisms of thrombosis in obesity
					

Obesity has become a worldwide epidemic that is driving increased morbidity and mortality from thrombotic disorders such as myocardial infarction, stroke, and venous thromboembolism. Effective prevention and treatment of thrombosis in obese patients is ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## minasdam (Jan 24, 2022)

Dex said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I had been on TRT for over 5 years. Life was good. I was feeling great and was feeling like myself and functioning like a man again. I have been off it for 4 months now and I feel like a piece of crap. I have no energy, no sex drive, loss of muscle and 80 year old erections. My levels were 205 two months after ending TRT and maybe lower now (feel lower for sure)
> 
> ...


Hi all the way from Greece there is very famous Greek Doc Touliatos or Dr T that suggest 


Dex said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I had been on TRT for over 5 years. Life was good. I was feeling great and was feeling like myself and functioning like a man again. I have been off it for 4 months now and I feel like a piece of crap. I have no energy, no sex drive, loss of muscle and 80 year old erections. My levels were 205 two months after ending TRT and maybe lower now (feel lower for sure)
> 
> ...


Hi from Greece there is a famous doctor Touliatos or Dr T that has alot of knowledge and suggest to use the drug lowering blood pressure losartan That has the ability to lower hematocrit .


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