# Bizarre bloods, what are your thoughts?



## Iron1 (Oct 23, 2013)

A little back story on me.

I do not produce test naturally, <10ng/dl.
Been on TRT for 15 years now.
100mg/wk split into two 50mg doses.
That brings me to 428ng/dl (ref 200-1100) tested last week.

Bloods came back with:
FSH: 2.8 (ref .6-11)
LH: .7 (ref 2.7-7.7)

Why would those two be that "high" when on TRT?

I've got a prognosis from 3 endo's why those levels might be the way they are but want to see what you guys think.

What say you UGB?


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## DF (Oct 23, 2013)

Very strange indeed.  Endos love to poke around your pituitary.... have they sent you for an MRI on your pituitary?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 23, 2013)

Did the insurance thing go through for the MRI?


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## Iron1 (Oct 23, 2013)

DF said:


> Very strange indeed.  Endos love to poke around your pituitary.... have they sent you for an MRI on your pituitary?



A follow up question to this is why do they poke around in the pituitary?
Do you think they're trying to determine primary or secondary hypogonadism?
My medical history makes it painfully obvious which one it is and it's not secondary.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 23, 2013)

If the doctors are aware of your history I doubt they're looking for info on primary or secondary hypogo


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## DF (Oct 23, 2013)

So your saying that they didn't send you for an MRI?


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## Iron1 (Oct 23, 2013)

Long story but they're hammering out the kinks in the MRI order.


DF, you're good at this game and hit the nail on the head right from the get-go.
The docs seem to think I've got a tumor on/in my pituitary that's causing weird FSH/LH numbers when they should be 0 or close to it.
If something shows up in the scan, I'm not sure what "fixing it" is going to do.
It will definitely *not* restore endogenous test production.


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## Iron1 (Oct 23, 2013)

Speaking just from a hormonal point of view, disregarding any mental effects of a pituitary tumor, wouldn't having LH/FSH floating around in my system be better than not having it?


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## corvettels3 (Oct 24, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> A little back story on me.
> 
> I do not produce test naturally, <10ng/dl.
> Been on TRT for 15 years now.
> ...



These are questions for your doctors not forum members. Unless we have endocrinologist amongst us.


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## Iron1 (Oct 24, 2013)

corvettels3 said:


> These are questions for your doctors not forum members. Unless we have endocrinologist amongst us.



I know.
I've had three endocrinologists review the bloods.
They came to a certain conclusion.

I wanted to see if the members here would come to the same conclusion based on what little info I provided.
A second opinion if you will.

DF hit the nail on the head.


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## creekrat (Oct 25, 2013)

I agree with the possibility of a tumor as well. Fot clarification though, benign tumors can cause this as well. Not just cancerous.   Look at achromegaly. It is gigantisism caused by benign tumors.  If that is the case the removal wouldn't restart endogenous test production but it would make it easier to maintain the hrt and prevent or help diagnose future problems


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## DF (Oct 25, 2013)

I've read through quite a few HRT forums and it would seem that Endo's do like to send patients with low test for the pituitary MRI.  I have yet to see anyone post that they indeed had a pituitary tumor.  

Iron I hope all goes well & you'll let us know the outcome.


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## Iron1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Thanks guys, this is really driving me up a wall.
I still don't have a usable order for the MRI, the doctors office keeps screwing it up.

I just want a definitive answer.


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## Iron1 (Nov 4, 2013)

Just another follow-up, my MRI order was written on Oct 17th.
Here it is Nov 4th and I STILL do not have a usable order.

I'm on the phone with these idiots day after day and it's always this excuse or that excuse.


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## DF (Nov 4, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> Just another follow-up, my MRI order was written on Oct 17th.
> Here it is Nov 4th and I STILL do not have a usable order.
> 
> I'm on the phone with these idiots day after day and it's always this excuse or that excuse.



Your insurance is denying the need for the MRI?


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## Iron1 (Nov 4, 2013)

DF said:


> Your insurance is denying the need for the MRI?



Na, it's just one thing after another with the paperwork.
I make a call to the office and won't get a response for at least a day and a half. Two business days is the norm.

First the order was filled out wrong.
Then they missed some crucial information that made the order unusable.
When they got approval they ignored my request to have it done locally.
Despite that they then scheduled it for a day where I'm going to be traveling on business.
Now because they need to reschedule, they're resubmitting for approval again.

It's just this long stream of BS with these guys.

When they gave me the order I said that I wanted to have it done locally.
I have an MRI imaging center in town, no reason to drive over an hour past it just to use someone elses.
At the time that wasn't a problem for them. I'm a patient in both places and both are approved through my insurance.

Now they're telling me they have no idea how to schedule the scan through a different office.
So I called my insurance.

They see the approval sitting in their system but mentioned that the office i'm seeing can't schedule the scan through my local office.
The insurance is telling me that now despite having approval sitting in their system I need to schedule an appointment with my GP in town, have him review the order, resubmit for insurance approval and then I MIGHT be able to schedule the appointment.

It's just an endless series of hoops that are getting me nowhere fast.


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## DF (Nov 4, 2013)

Damn! that's a whole lot of BS go to through.  Sounds like you need to grab someone by the neck & shake them until dead.


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## Iron1 (Nov 5, 2013)

DF said:


> Damn! that's a whole lot of BS go to through.  Sounds like you need to grab someone by the neck & shake them until dead.



I wish I could DF, hah.
This has been a *very* long painful road with this TRT stuff.
I've started looking for competent doctors in my home town and when they proved inept, moved outward.
Right now I'm 50 miles out from where I started and it looks like I'll have to go even further.
As it is I have to take a half day off from work and drive 3 hours just to see these knuckleheads.

Oh well, that's the unfortunate place I'm stuck in.
Just gotta keep fighting the good fight.


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## Iron1 (Nov 8, 2013)

MRI has been scheduled, finally!
Tuesday Nov 19th.


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## DF (Nov 8, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> MRI has been scheduled, finally!
> Tuesday Nov 19th.



Nice! congrats!

Now I'm willing to bet that the MRI comes back normal.


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## Iron1 (Nov 8, 2013)

DF said:


> Nice! congrats!
> 
> Now I'm willing to bet that the MRI comes back normal.



Thanks bud!
I've had my thoughts about that too.
I'm just not experiencing a lot of the symptoms associated with pituitary tumors.

Ah well, this should be interesting either way.


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## DF (Nov 8, 2013)

Best of luck to you!  let us know how it goes.


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## creekrat (Nov 13, 2013)

Looking forward to hearing your results


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## DieYoungStrong (Nov 13, 2013)

Sounds like Obamacare is working quite swimmingly. It's really pathetic that in the USA, a man has to go through this BS for a necessary medical procedure.


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## Iron1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I just got back from getting the scan done.
They did it both with and without contrast and said I should have some results in 48 hours.

I'll keep you guys posted.


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## NbleSavage (Nov 19, 2013)

Good luck, Mate!


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## Iron1 (Nov 25, 2013)

*Update 11/25*

More hurdles and no answers in sight.
The scan was done last Tuesday and they needed 48 hours for processing.
OK no problem.
I call to get the results on Friday.

They call back 6 hours later and leave me a message saying "Yeah, uh, we don't have any record of this scan. Did you have it done at another facility?"

Are you F*N kidding me?!
You retards scheduled the scan, you know which location you schedule it for, YOU filled out the order and now you're telling me you don't have any information on it?! Shame on you and your poorly organized hospital.

So now I need to go down to get a copy of the scan myself so that I can send it over to them for processing.
It will take up to 15 business days to get a copy of this scan and then another 48 hours to process it.

It will be TWO FULL MONTHS since I've received this order for the MRI before I have any sort of usable results.
This is more than maddening, if this turns out to be serious I could have been DEAD or having seizures by now.


In  another strange twist of fate, the numbers that had originally prompted these Dr's to assume brain tumor seem to have reversed themselves. THey didn't test FSH this time but the LH went back to it's expected value of <.1..


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## DF (Nov 25, 2013)

You gotta be fukn kidding!  That is just insane.  First no way that it takes 15 business days to make a copy of a scan.  Everything is done on a computer & all they have to do is burn a copy.  How long does it take to burn a cd/dvd?  not very.  I usually get MRI reports/copies within 2 days.  Sorry these incompetent douches are putting you through the ringer.  

Atleast the LH number is back to where it is expected.  I'm sure once the MRI results come through these guys are just going to scratch their heads & say "we don't know".


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## Armedanddangerous (Nov 25, 2013)

Fuk iron that sucks brother! I know you've been at this forever and I can't believe their still fuking with you. Sorry brother


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## Iron1 (Nov 25, 2013)

DF said:


> You gotta be fukn kidding!  That is just insane.  First no way that it takes 15 business days to make a copy of a scan.  Everything is done on a computer & all they have to do is burn a copy.  How long does it take to burn a cd/dvd?  not very.  I usually get MRI reports/copies within 2 days.  Sorry these incompetent douches are putting you through the ringer.
> 
> Atleast the LH number is back to where it is expected.  I'm sure once the MRI results come through these guys are just going to scratch their heads & say "we don't know".



I wish I were bud, this whole ordeal with these guys has been absolutely terrible.
I've had to do far more leg work than any patient really should.

It's depressing.

My thoughts are similar to yours, despite all this BS they're going to be left wondering.


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## Iron1 (Nov 25, 2013)

*update 11/25*
Screw the doctors, I got my own results.
I have a hardcopy of the summary and a CD with the images in my hand.

The summary reads:
"The pituitary gland demonstrates normal size, contour and enhancement. No discrete lesion is identified. The infundibulum is midline. The sella turcica appears intact. The optica chiasm and cavernous sinuses are unremarkable."

"Unremarkable MRI of the pituitary gland. No evidence of pituitary mass."

And the mystery continues.....


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## Armedanddangerous (Nov 25, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> *update 11/25*
> Screw the doctors, I got my own results.
> I have a hardcopy of the summary and a CD with the images in my hand.
> 
> ...



Good news!!!!! I think?  What's the next move brother?


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## Iron1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Armedanddangerous said:


> Good news!!!!! I think?  What's the next move brother?



It's news at least.

I have no idea what the next move is, the ordering physicians haven't even seen the results yet.
You guys know more than they do at the moment hahaha.

I'll be faxing over the results today and if I get the typical turn-around, I'll see a response by February sometimes.


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## CptFKNplanet (Nov 25, 2013)

Damn finally got that shit done huh? At least it wasn't what they thought it was.


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## Armedanddangerous (Nov 25, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> I'll be faxing over the results today and if I get the typical turn-around, I'll see a response by February sometimes.



I don't know how you don't fkn lose it on them. I don't deal we'll with shit like that


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## Iron1 (Nov 25, 2013)

CptFKNplanet said:


> Damn finally got that shit done huh? At least it wasn't what they thought it was.



Yep, original order date was Oct 17, I didn't even have a usable order until Nov 19th...

I've got mixed feelings on the results, I'm glad I don't have barnacles growing on my brain but I'm still experiencing problems.
Now I get to do more tests, and more tests, and more tests etc.



Armedanddangerous said:


> I don't know how you don't fkn lose it on them. I don't deal we'll with shit like that



It's the unfortunate game I'm stuck playing at the moment.
I want to lose it but for my own health, I can't.
These guys, as inept as they seem, are a necessary evil.
If I piss enough of them off, I'll have nobody left to help.


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## UnderDosed (Dec 1, 2013)

man you need a new trt dr, I have been on 2 1/2 year. Most endo's suck and are very shiesty when it comes to hormones and having test done they don't think are necessary! Your going to be on it the rest of your life,  and this is your health you need to demand stuff you need if it is for your own good and if they won't give it to you pack up and find a new one! My last trt dr was a urologist and would not give me an ai at 200mg a week so I jumped ship.


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## Iron1 (Dec 2, 2013)

UnderDosed said:


> *man you need a new trt dr,* I have been on 2 1/2 year. Most endo's suck and are very shiesty when it comes to hormones and having test done they don't think are necessary! Your going to be on it the rest of your life,  and this is your health you need to demand stuff you need if it is for your own good and if they won't give it to you pack up and find a new one! My last trt dr was a urologist and would not give me an ai at 200mg a week so I jumped ship.



This marks my 7th endo that I've gone through.
I'm not giving up but it is getting very expensive for me to seek legal treatment now.
I have to take time off of work just for these appointments.

I've been on for over 15 years already, trust me I know this game sucks.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 2, 2013)

Sounds like you need to find a trt clinic. They won't dick you around and will work to optimize your hormones.


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## Iron1 (Dec 2, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Sounds like you need to find a trt clinic. They won't dick you around and will work to optimize your hormones.



PoB, I wish I could.
This is one of the most irritating things about seaking treatment in my ass-backwards state.
I work within 5 miles of a trt clinic but holy crap the prices those guys charge.

Initial visit - $1000
Labs (every 3-4 months) $1100
Treatment starts at $450/month but can go upwards of $1500

I called 3 of those anti-aging/TRT clinics around here and those were the "cheapest" options they afforded me.
I would need to work my job just for my health.


Have you or anyone else found any luck in getting insurance to pay for one of those TRT clinics?
I'm certainly not giving up by any means and I've worked out a couple of possible treatment options if I were to "go rogue".
I just like the idea of keeping it all legal.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 2, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> PoB, I wish I could.
> This is one of the most irritating things about seaking treatment in my ass-backwards state.
> I work within 5 miles of a trt clinic but holy crap the prices those guys charge.
> 
> ...



That blows


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## UnderDosed (Dec 2, 2013)

I don't think insurance will cover anti aging clinics inl less the dr does other treatment besides anti agingnnot sure though. Man I had that same problem, its really hard to find a good dr that is not shiesty with a script when using insurance, I cant afford not to use my insurance! lol I actually called every dr that does hormone replacement around my area asking questions to see if it was worth my time such as 1. do you guys have a maximum mg the dr goes up to because i'm already getting 200 mg a week. 2. Will the dr let me do home injections? 3. will the dr prescribe me and ai?  Good luck, hope it works out for you!


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