# First Cycle: All You Need to Know



## Get Some

Here is what I think is a good starter cycle for just about anyone. Please feel free to add to this or comment as you wish. This is an open forum for educated members so I'd like your feedback. These are my own words, not taken from anywhere, so feel free to comment away.

*Note - If this is truly your first cycle experience, please read all the way through and watch the videos*

*Part 1: The Cycle (Injection will be discussed later in the post)*

Ingredients: Testosterone (Cypionate or Enanthate), *Dianabol 10mg tabs

Testosterone   500mg EW   Weeks 1-10  (two 250mg shots per week)
+Dianabol          30mg  ED    Weeks 1-4   (3 separate doses, 4-6 hours apart)

**Dianabol in a first cycle is not recommended for most. *

+"*Kickstarting*" *your cycle isn't the best recommendation anymore. *

The first 4 weeks should be plenty of time to make great gains on Dbol. The first time I ever took dbol was at 25mg ED and I had awesome gains, so 30mg ED should be more than enough for a beginner. Also, that dose should be free of really painful back pumps for most people. By week 5 the Test should be reaching peak blood plasma levels and really kicking into gear.

*Part 2: Protection & Maintenance*

Ingredients: Arimidex or Exemestane and HCG

Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) - Use as needed when gyno starts to develop
Arimidex at 0.25mg to 0.5mg EOD or E3D and Exemestane at 12.5mg EOD

Testosterone and especially Dbol can cause male breast tissue to develop during the course of your cycle. This can be treated by using a suicide inhibibiting AI. This will actually stop the conversion to estrogen, thus limiting gyno growth. Nolvadex can also be used, but it merely blocks the receptor by occupying it and will not stop the aromatase process. You can run an AI throughout the cycle to help avoid getting gyno in the first place, but I choose not to because it can cause joint soreness and irritation if taken too often.

*Part 2b: HCG*

Ingredients: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)

HCG  250 IU  Twice Weekly starting at week 4 or 5

I am a huge advocate of HCG. It mimics Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in the testes and will keep them from atrophying (shrinking), thus increasing the chances of full recovery for the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA).

HCG is administered most commonly through subcutaneous (subQ) injection with an insulin needle (slin pin). It comes as a lypholized powder and needs to be reconstituted with bacteriostatic water (bac water or bac). It's much easier than it sounds. SubQ injections are also much easier than the Intramuscular ones you will need to perform when injecting gear.

Here is a video on how to inject subcutaneously: 





*Part 3: Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)*

Ingredients: HCG and Nolvadex and/or Clomid

For a 10 week cycle as such, 4 weeks of PCT can be recommended. I like to use a combination of the drugs Nolvadex (Nolva) and Clomid. However, beacuse of the half life of the Enanthate or Cypionate ester in the Testosterone, you must wait at least 3 weeks for your blood levels to drop below normal. At this point, your body will attempt a recovery of your suppressed HPTA. So, your PCT will start week 14.

In weeks 11-13 there will be no injections of any hormones. Blood plasma levels will peak somewhere in the middle of that time frame and then decline to the end. Herein lies the possibility of backloading a cycle with Testosterone propionate. However, I don't think it's necessary or appropriate for a new user to worry about doing this the first time around. Here is the HCG schedule for weeks 11-13:

Week 11: 250 IUs twice that week
Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
Week 13: 500 IUs EOD

*Note - DISCONTINUE use of HCG prior to commencing PCT

Week 14: 100mg Clomid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
Week 15: 100mg Colmid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
Week 16: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
Week 17: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED

*Note - Either drug may be used alone, but I believe both used together are of greater value than either by itself

After week 17, if you've done everything correctly, you should be almost fully recovered. Your body may take a few more weeks to kick back into gear, but you should be well on your way.

At this point it is recommended that you give your body (and your endocrine system) some much needed time "off." Going by the book, you should take as much time off ans you spent on plus time for PCT. So, 13 weeks leading up to PCT plus 4 weeks of PCT equals 17 weeks off. On the 18th week off you can begin a new cycle if you wish to do so at this time. Many people take much less time off than is recommended, but to be on the safe side, this is what I recommend.

*Needle selection and Injection*

For most guys, a 23 to 25 guage needle thickness is perfect for injecting oil based AAS into the muscle. If you are of average BF% (15% to 20%) you will likely need a 1.5" needle length to get the job done in the glutes. For the shoulders, thighs, and ventroglute areas a 1" long needle will suffice.

Here is a good site that discusses different injection sites and techniques...

http://spotinjections.com/

If you are drawing the oil from a vial, I always recommend using a different needle to draw and to inject. Use a 20 or 21 guage needle to draw, as it will be much easier than trying to draw with a 23g or 25g. Simply screw off the drawing needle and replace it with a fresh sterile injection needle. Pull the amount of air into the syringe that corresponds with the amount of oil you will draw out. Insert the needle into the vial, depress the plunger on the syringe to push the air inside. This will help you pull the oil out of the vial. This is much easier if you have the vial upside down.

Here is a video that discusses Intramuscular injections (Next Post): The only difference I would advise is that instead of taking "3-5 seconds" to inject, spread it out over 30 seconds or more. This will help to desrease injection soreness that may arise later on.

As a final note I would like to point out that this information is intended to educate you on the proper procedure for completing a successful cycle for the first time. However, it is not an authoritative guide for success. You alone determine the success of your cycle through your dedication to diet and training.

Prior to attmepting this cycle, you should have a number of solid training years under your belt, have your diet up to par, and be free from any injuries. AAS will increase your strength far more rapidly than when training naturally and this will put stress on your connective tissues. This is a terrible idea if you are aready suffering from an injury.

If this is the first thing you are reading about cycling AAS congratulations, you have more information than most people when starting their first cycle. HOWEVER, there is still more research to be done.

1. Know what side effects to expect from each drug and how to deal with them
2. What to do if something goes awry
3. Always have all of your gear (including PCT items) in hand before you start the cycle
4. Research testosterone esters and their "half-lives"
5. Feel like you're more than ready when you start
6. This is no joke....you simply can't half ass it and have even decent results

**IMPORTANT**
As a side note, you probably WILL NOT find a reliable source right out of the gate. Trust me, this is for the better. It will force you to get invloved in forums discussing AAS and you will learn more everyday and meet great people. Somewhere down the road (hopefully sooner than later) you will find a reliable source. The number one rule you should follow is never ask anyone directly for a new source (or on the open forum for that matter) that you don't personally know. They are either going to ignore, cuss you out, or scam you. Any way you look at it, not a good proposition.


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## Get Some




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## gymrat827

nice thread... hits all the good pts.


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## JOMO

What he said! Great write up once again.


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## coltmc4545

Another great post get some. Personally I think even a 14 week cycle for a first time is ok. I know for me things didn't start getting good til about week 8 and I was still gaining at week 12 but stopped. If you are still seeing gains and diet and training is still on point, I personally see no problem with extending the cycle and extra 2-4 weeks. This also leads me to another point, it's always a good idea to have an extra vial of whatever compound you have lying around just in case. Not just so you could extend your cycle, but I've seen plenty of posts where people have dropped and shattered vials, gf's/wives tossing gear, ect. You don't want to be half way through a cycle and have to go into pct at week 6 because you knocked a vial off the counter and it shattered on the floor.


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## LeanHerm

Yes yours is way better then my write up.  Lol.


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## Curiosity

Thanks for the info Get Some!

One question: Is desensitization the reason that you do not recommend running HCG @ 250 IU twice a week from the beginning of the cycle?


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## Get Some

LOL, I wrote this about 3 years ago bro, you'll get there! At one point back in the day I just got tired of people asking the same damn questions so I stuck this thread at TID so I'd have a place to send the noobs to! lol Hence the little bit at the end about how it's not a piece of cake to find a good source straight out of the gate 



BigHerm said:


> Yes yours is way better then my write up.  Lol.


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## LeanHerm

Lol I wrote a nice one up at Ology a while back and one here too. I'll see if I can find it.


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## Get Some

You can definitely start it at the outset of the cycle, btu I find what works best for me with hcg is to have it on hand and use it as needed. Fortunately I respond well to low to moderate doses of just about everything so I can afford to wait and see if I need it. You really have to run a lot of hcg to desensitize the leydigs, BUT extended use is much more likely to desensitize than a big dose all at once. But, if you wanted to run a moderate dose a couple times a week for 14 weeks that should be fine. For those of you that run 20+ week cycles I would split it up. Again, this has to do also with the body always trying to achieve homeostasis and becoming immune to the effects at a certain point.



Curiosity said:


> Thanks for the info Get Some!
> 
> One question: Is desensitization the reason that you do not recommend running HCG @ 250 IU twice a week from the beginning of the cycle?


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## AndroSport

lol kinda similar to the one I just posted... making me look like a fucking asshole.

except i didn't write a damn word of mine lol 

See ya in palm springs muthafukka!


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## Lulu66

Great tread. Shit broken down to barney level... It cant get any simpler then that.


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## Jada

hey get some great post brother! this will be very useful for alot of newbies that join.


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## PillarofBalance

This is the post that got me to join TID. Made my first cycle a piece of cake.


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## Oenomaus

It's like a picture book for aspiring body builders. Great thread.


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## Pikiki

Make this a sticky!!!!!!

I will like to add something about reaserch, Guys make sure you read not only once but everyday you can about what you are going to get into it. Read others members logs ask questions on the stuff you may not understand very well. Remember a clear understanding of what you are going to do will save you from health issue or complications during or after your first cycle. Learn about AI, HCG,AAS and any drug related or involve in your first cycle, also keep as simply as you can.


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## stb1041

Definitely should be a sticky!  

Once you reconstitute the HCG, doesn't it only last for 30 days and have to be refrigerated?  So my 5000 IU vial of HCG, I'm going to end up wasting 3000 IU of it if I use 500iu per week?


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## djkneegrow

Gotta say for someone like me who doesn't know anything pretty much about AAS and cycling and all this is an excellent thread. I know when I am ready to do my first cycle this will be the outline I use. One of my favorite parts to all the information is the end with the 6 points that are made. Even now I feel more educated and can't wait to learn more here.


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## Bro Bundy

another great sticky from our GET SOME!!


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## Planedrs

Wow... Cycle 101 is I session... Great read....


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## Bivz82

Great post bro I read that shit almost twice lol
Excellent info I can store in my head especially being very new


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## Jt79zxt

Excellent info ... Everything is broken down and it's  a fool proof plan for someone starting off ..


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## BigTruck

Awesome info for a guy like me just getting back into aa's after 10 years or so. That was an awesome refresher bro! Thanks


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## Xazev

Thank you so much for this. This is probably one of the few posts across the internet that details the prepping & everything else needed BESIDES the AAS itself, haha.


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## Bro Bundy

bump...damn i miss gs


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## JOMO

Brother Bundy said:


> bump...damn i miss gs



x2! Where did this guy dissapear to?


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## Gt500face

Great post! Good job


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## nnb021

very helpful


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## Get Some

Brother Bundy said:


> bump...damn i miss gs



I'm back mofo!!!! Muahahaha


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## DF

Get Some said:


> I'm back mofo!!!! Muahahaha



I'm glad to see you back brother!


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## sprawl33

Good to be here, good read


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## Magical

Nice thread bro


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## nightster

Great thread!!! Can anyone explain what a guy could expect as far as "cycle flu" or other type of symptoms ?


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## PillarofBalance

nightster said:


> Great thread!!! Can anyone explain what a guy could expect as far as "cycle flu" or other type of symptoms ?



You mean test flu. I wouldn't expect that. It's an uncommon occurrence and it's not like you can do something about it. 24 hour kinda thing anyway.


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## italian1

Nightster I had it first three cycles I did. Lasted about a week. Just long enough that you start to panic and question if you should stop taking what your taking. It's no big deal. You rest up and it goes away. First three cycles I ran were dirty home brew gear. Might have something to do with it cause since then I've run a different higher quality brand and haven't had it since.


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## M_T Pockets

Great information and lots of thanks. Hoping to tackle this topic soon.


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## WhiteWaterKayaker

How much could someone expect to gain from this cycle?


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## Bro Bundy

WhiteWaterKayaker said:


> How much could someone expect to gain from this cycle?



i put on 25 pounds on my first cyp cycle


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## WhiteWaterKayaker

How much did you keep after PCT?


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## Bro Bundy

i dont remember the exact number it was a while ago..I know u keep alot and u look different after every cycle.Keeping gains depends on how u continue to eat and train after the cycle ends


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## Paolos

Great post! As we all know the first cycle sets the tone for all cycles after that as you will develop good habits.
If you want to stay in this game for a while this is the only way to fly.


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## grecoguy

*Cutting stack advice*

Great original post, answered a lot of my questions. I'm a total newbie when it comes to steroids (but far from a newb when it comes to training, I lived at the OTC for awhile and competed D1 in college) and my athletic career just came to an end.   I'm roughly 275 right now and 6'2.5. My goal is to get into the mid 230's. I can anyone shoot me some advice with what to take instead of the dianabol (I'm assuming winstrol). Your guys help is extremely appreciated!


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## trodizzle

Accidental post.


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## Bro Bundy

bump!!more people need to read this


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## Beedeezy

Great write up!
What the recommended gauge for injection testosterone E? I will be drawing with a 19g but don't want to have to stick myself with any larger bore than needed.


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## Bama78

25g is slim and doesn't take forever to push out. I pull with a 20 or a 21 And pin with 25 no matter where I pin. Jmo tho.


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## Beedeezy

Bama78 said:


> 25g is slim and doesn't take forever to push out. I pull with a 20 or a 21 And pin with 25 no matter where I pin. Jmo tho.



Thanks brother, that helps more than you know. Appreciate you!


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## jreadman23

Best thing I've read in my last Month of hard research


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## dizzle42

Great advice. I'm stoked to see everyone has the same consensus. I've read a bunch of different advice on when to use hcg and how long to wait before starting Clomi and Nolv. I appreciate the solid thread as I am about to drop and start PCT here soon.


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## Osiris

Good read and great information.  Thanks for the info.


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## Mole

Great post


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## jacquescm500

Hi GS

Great read for a beginner like me. Please explain part 2 and 2b? You say start HCG twice weekly at week 4 and 5 . Until when? Also do you take Arimidex separately and  Exemestane and HCG together, or either Arimidex or Exemestane with HCG?

Thank You


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## DocDePanda187123

jacquescm500 said:


> Hi GS
> 
> Great read for a beginner like me. Please explain part 2 and 2b? You say start HCG twice weekly at week 4 and 5 . Until when? Also do you take Arimidex separately and  Exemestane and HCG together, or either Arimidex or Exemestane with HCG?
> 
> Thank You



Start HCG from day 1 and run it up until about 4days prior to beginning pct. 

Arimidex and exemestane are both aromatase inhibitors. You can take either with HCG but I believe arimidex to be the superior option.


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## jacquescm500

Hi GS

If I am concerned about Dianabol pushing my blood pressure up (its a little higher than normal 140/90) - What can I replace it with in the cycle that you have posted here. I want o give it a go but the worry remains.... Thank you


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## toosmall

Awesome read. Thanks for taking the time to post that. 2 thumbs up.


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## MPC

This is very informative and exactly the info I was hoping to find here but it's still all Greek to me. Where how when what????? I'll keep reading as much as I can before I ask someone to hold my hand!


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## saltylifter

Nice break down.
Will help the confusion for allot of people.


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## blackbeltmuscle

Great post for noobs and as refresher.


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## bmezine

Great read, thanks for the Dora the Explorer style of writing


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## Xavier

Write a book. Seriously. Awesome. Thank you for the info.


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## u2pride

Thank you so much. It's kind info that I'm looking for!


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## sgf

this is an excellent post.  Thanks.


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## kiwimike

Years on and this thread is legendary. I am going to use this as a blueprint to my first cycle. Great advice. Thanks get some


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## Houndog787

Just to confirm. The hcg is injected also? Is this a must for the first cycle?


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## who_gives_a_shit

i have a couple cycles ive run under my belt and i still read this before i start every single time. just to make sure im not forgetting any of the basics


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## kingblasted

Houndog787 said:


> Just to confirm. The hcg is injected also? Is this a must for the first cycle?


Yes. I'd recommend 250iu x2 a week starting from day 1.  IF you plan on cycling and not b/c than I highly recommend it as it will help you recover from your cycle once your off.


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## bricksonbricks

great read!


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## m98075

*First cycle question - bulk vs cut*

Hi, I have been studying the subject for over 4 months and have decided to take the plunge. I have had blood work done and I am planning on the following (as suggested earlier):


Testosterone 500 mg EW weeks 1-10
Dianabol 30 mg ED weeks 1-4
Arimidex 0.25 mg EOD as needed for gynecomastia 
HCG 250 IU twice weekly starting at week 4

Post Cycle Therapy:

HCG (weeks 11-13)
Week 11: 250 IUsx2
Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
Week 13: 500 IUs EOD

Week 14 and 15 : 100 mg Clomid ED and 40 mg Nolva ED
Week 16 and 17 : 50 mg Clmoid ED and 20 mg Nolva ED


I understand that getting ripped has a lot to do with diet (caloric deficit)  and rest and not anabolic steroids.  My goal is eventually to gain 20 lbs of muscle and be < 9 % bf. My understanding is that anabolic steroids mainly help with muscle repair and bulk. Would  most of you recommend clean bulking during a cycle as it appears to me that is where you get most bang for your buck with anabolic steroids. Once muscle and fat is gained then focus on cutting (?without being on anabolic steroid) . I have read contradictory reports but I have always believed that you cannot cut and bulk at the same time (unless one is carb/caloric cycling) even with steroids.
The second question is: Do you recommend using Dianabol 30 mg ED Weeks 1-4 in the first cycle (with test)? I have seen this as a recommendation in this tread but most people recommend using test alone for the first cycle. 
Thank you


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## M_T Pockets

Looks like a great cycle. I know many do 12 weeks on Test E but heck you're doing 10 so go for it.
Arimidex I'd just keep on hand many dont need it but just monitor your body.
Im not one to do HCG especially on your first cycle but everyone is diff. I might even say bump that Dbol up to 40mg. Doing Dbol to me is a great idea.


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## m98075

Thank you for the reply!
Can anyone shed light on the following:
1) I understand that most people on a cycle tend to get angry easily. How big of an issue is that? Should I expect to be short-tempered all the time? Also would this be worse with Test alone or Test +Dbol. Although I do not get angry easily, this is one my big concerns since my work involves dealing with people all day long and have young kids pushing my buttons from time to time . 
2) What is a realistic expectation in terms or retaining muscle mass after completing a cycle with a complete PCT. 50% muscle mass retention ?


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## M_T Pockets

On that cycle you won't have roid rage lol. Now if you want to ever use Tren than yea lol


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## PillarofBalance

m98075 said:


> Thank you for the reply!
> Can anyone shed light on the following:
> 1) I understand that most people on a cycle tend to get angry easily. How big of an issue is that? Should I expect to be short-tempered all the time? Also would this be worse with Test alone or Test +Dbol. Although I do not get angry easily, this is one my big concerns since my work involves dealing with people all day long and have young kids pushing my buttons from time to time .
> 2) What is a realistic expectation in terms or retaining muscle mass after completing a cycle with a complete PCT. 50% muscle mass retention ?



Road rage is a myth.  

Nobody can answer question number 2. It's all on you. Diet, training intensity and positive attitude


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## ToolSteel

PillarofBalance said:


> *Road rage is a myth.
> *
> Nobody can answer question number 2. It's all on you. Diet, training intensity and positive attitude




Bullshit. I've seen you rant about your local traffic.


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## ECKSRATED

Steroids make me lovely. Especially a nice dose of test. Actually makes me more calm cus in pretty calm to begin with. Don't believe all the good rage shit. Sometimes people snap, gear or not


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## M_T Pockets

I'm going to snap if Dodgers win lol


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## m98075

Thanks a lot for all your input! So after thinking about this and doing more research I am going to change my first cycle as follows:  

Testosterone 500 mg EW weeks 1-12
Dianabol 40 mg ED weeks 1-4

Arimidex 0.25 mg EOD as needed for gynecomastia 

HCG 250 IU twice weekly starting at weeks 4-11

Post Cycle Therapy:

HCG (weeks 12-13)
Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
Week 13: 500 IUs EOD

Week 14 and 15 : 100 mg Clomid ED and 40 mg Nolva ED
Week 16 and 17 : 50 mg Clmoid ED and 20 mg Nolva ED

My understanding is that bulking plateaus out around 10 weeks. Is it possible to bulk for first 10 weeks and cut thereafter. I have read conflicting results.
I am thinking that I will probably gain around 6-7 lbs of body fat during bulk phase. Since it seems to be easier to get lean on anabolic steroids it would be nice to shed some body fat off during the last few weeks of the cycle.
If this is doable then should I cut throught PCT as well? One of the concerns with this approach is risking loss of gained muscle during cutting phase of the cycle ? 
What do you guys recommend? Stick to bulking and cutting cycles?


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## Bro Bundy

m98075 said:


> Thanks a lot for all your input! So after thinking about this and doing more research I am going to change my first cycle as follows:
> 
> Testosterone 500 mg EW weeks 1-12
> Dianabol 40 mg ED weeks 1-4
> 
> Arimidex 0.25 mg EOD as needed for gynecomastia
> 
> HCG 250 IU twice weekly starting at weeks 4-11
> 
> Post Cycle Therapy:
> 
> HCG (weeks 12-13)
> Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
> Week 13: 500 IUs EOD
> 
> Week 14 and 15 : 100 mg Clomid ED and 40 mg Nolva ED
> Week 16 and 17 : 50 mg Clmoid ED and 20 mg Nolva ED
> 
> My understanding is that bulking plateaus out around 10 weeks. Is it possible to bulk for first 10 weeks and cut thereafter. I have read conflicting results.
> I am thinking that I will probably gain around 6-7 lbs of body fat during bulk phase. Since it seems to be easier to get lean on anabolic steroids it would be nice to shed some body fat off during the last few weeks of the cycle.
> If this is doable then should I cut throught PCT as well? One of the concerns with this approach is risking loss of gained muscle during cutting phase of the cycle ?
> What do you guys recommend? Stick to bulking and cutting cycles?



imo the best is to cut natty since this is your first cycle..Then when your happy with the cut use the gear to build muscle


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## m98075

This forum has been very educational. 
The more I study this subject the more conflicted I am. Pharma quality vs ugl AAS etc.   I have a potential source for a UGL AAS but not a reliable source for pharma quality AAS. Do you guys think it make a big difference between pharma quality vs a good ugl AAS?
Although, my top preference would be pharma quality AAS, my concern is that there is are a lot more pharma counterfeit out there and so it might make more sense to get with a reputable ugl. It seems that in the end it always a bit of a gamble either way. 
On a side note, I know forum rules do not allow asking for sources etc. it seems like most people on these underground forums do not share their sources for multiple reasons. I have read similar concerns by other new members. Would it be reasonable to presume that most people here have their private sources and come here for discussion only. It would be nice to know that so that I can broaden my efforts locally for reliable sources. Cannot compromise on safety.


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## Shane1974

m98075 said:


> This forum has been very educational.
> The more I study this subject the more conflicted I am. Pharma quality vs ugl AAS etc.   I have a potential source for a UGL AAS but not a reliable source for pharma quality AAS. Do you guys think it make a big difference between pharma quality vs a good ugl AAS?
> Although, my top preference would be pharma quality AAS, my concern is that there is are a lot more pharma counterfeit out there and so it might make more sense to get with a reputable ugl. It seems that in the end it always a bit of a gamble either way.
> On a side note, I know forum rules do not allow asking for sources etc. it seems like most people on these underground forums do not share their sources for multiple reasons. I have read similar concerns by other new members. Would it be reasonable to presume that most people here have their private sources and come here for discussion only. It would be nice to know that so that I can broaden my efforts locally for reliable sources. Cannot compromise on safety.



If you don't have a reliable source for pharma gear, why are you weighing that as an option? And yes...it's reasonable to assume that you are not getting a private source from us.


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## automatondan

m98075 said:


> This forum has been very educational.
> The more I study this subject the more conflicted I am. Pharma quality vs ugl AAS etc.   I have a potential source for a UGL AAS but not a reliable source for pharma quality AAS. Do you guys think it make a big difference between pharma quality vs a good ugl AAS?
> Although, my top preference would be pharma quality AAS, my concern is that there is are a lot more pharma counterfeit out there and so it might make more sense to get with a reputable ugl. It seems that in the end it always a bit of a gamble either way.
> On a side note, I know forum rules do not allow asking for sources etc. it seems like most people on these underground forums do not share their sources for multiple reasons. I have read similar concerns by other new members. Would it be reasonable to presume that most people here have their private sources and come here for discussion only. It would be nice to know that so that I can broaden my efforts locally for reliable sources. Cannot compromise on safety.



We are definitely not a source board.... there are plenty of others out there offering to scam your money.... This board is dedicated to sharing knowledge... We are a tight community of misfit bros (and sisters) who love to train and love to learn. So you wont find sources here, if thats what you are seeking... Most of us here, who have been around a while are all on TRT anyways...  Btw, purchasing AAS online sounds like a dumb idea to me... Just like asking a bunch of people you dont know for reputable sources....


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## M_T Pockets

They sell razzles on this board?


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## m98075

Good to know that. Who said anything about buying online or asking anyone for sources? Just trying to understand this better.  Read the post before throwing insults!


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## m98075

automatonDan said:


> We are definitely not a source board.... there are plenty of others out there offering to scam your money.... This board is dedicated to sharing knowledge... We are a tight community of misfit bros (and sisters) who love to train and love to learn. So you wont find sources here, if thats what you are seeking... Most of us here, who have been around a while are all on TRT anyways...  Btw, purchasing AAS online sounds like a dumb idea to me... Just like asking a bunch of people you dont know for reputable sources....



                      .                   .


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## automatondan

automatonDan said:


> We are definitely not a source board.... there are plenty of others out there offering to scam your money.... This board is dedicated to sharing knowledge... We are a tight community of misfit bros (and sisters) who love to train and love to learn. So you wont find sources here, if thats what you are seeking... Most of us here, who have been around a while are all on TRT anyways...  Btw, purchasing AAS online sounds like a dumb idea to me... Just like asking a bunch of people you dont know for reputable sources....





m98075 said:


> This forum has been very educational.
> The more I study this subject the more conflicted I am. Pharma quality vs ugl AAS etc.   I have a potential source for a UGL AAS but not a reliable source for pharma quality AAS. Do you guys think it make a big difference between pharma quality vs a good ugl AAS?
> Although, my top preference would be pharma quality AAS, my concern is that there is are a lot more pharma counterfeit out there and so it might make more sense to get with a reputable ugl. It seems that in the end it always a bit of a gamble either way.
> On a side note, I know forum rules do not allow asking for sources etc. it seems like most people on these underground forums do not share their sources for multiple reasons. I have read similar concerns by other new members. *Would it be reasonable to presume that most people here have their private sources and come here for discussion only. It would be nice to know that so that I can broaden my efforts locally for reliable sources. Cannot compromise on safety.*





m98075 said:


> Good to know that. Who said anything about buying online or asking anyone for sources? Just trying to understand this better.  Read the post before throwing insults!



Sorry if I hurt your feelings.... I am just being very clear as to what kind of board this is. Just as you asked.... and I answered.


----------



## rammsteinace

Listen guys i really need some information and feedback, i started my first steroid 1 week ago, winstrol, 40mg a day, first week, now 50 mg a day, i plan to take it 6 weeks , no side effects for now, just i thing my test levels are low, couse no sperm when i cum, do i need pct after i finish winstrol or it will natturally come back after finishing the steroid?


----------



## SHRUGS

You're taking Winni all by itself? I sure hope not. Please read and do more research before you mess yourself up. No sperm when u cum? What the? You have no way to measure how many sperm are in your load. From what you're saying there is no load at all? This all sounds ridiculous. Nice first post though!
!S!


----------



## CardinalJacked

rammsteinace said:


> Listen guys i really need some information and feedback, i started my first steroid 1 week ago, winstrol, 40mg a day, first week, now 50 mg a day, i plan to take it 6 weeks , no side effects for now, just i thing my test levels are low, couse no sperm when i cum, do i need pct after i finish winstrol or it will natturally come back after finishing the steroid?



when you run any steroid in the body is shuts off your natural test. If you gonna do anything, always run test.


----------



## CardinalJacked

when you run any steroid in the body is shuts off your natural test. If you gonna do anything, always run test.


----------



## rammsteinace

but if i do test i'm gonna have to take it also for minimun 6 weeks, and this is my first time i use steroid so i dont want combination... too much, just wanted minimun 6 week winstrol cycle with minimun side effects, and want a good pct to get back my test production back to normal


----------



## rammsteinace

i had sex, everything was ok but i was dried man, no sperm no ejaculation, ****ing dry , maybe its normal idk that is why i am asking i need some info im new into this, does that mean i dont have test or ?


----------



## ToolSteel

It means your balls have completely stopped working. This is extremely rare. They will fall off within the next 2 weeks.


----------



## rammsteinace

haha yeah sure,  thanks for the feedback haha


----------



## TrickWilliams

This is what happens when you take winni only. Winni only cycles are for men trying to become women. Its a drug that speeds up a "castration like process". Tool is right about that 2 week mark they should be so shriveled up you can just yank them right off. Like castrating a sheep. Simple, easy, no pain.

You know Bruce Jenner? This is exactly what he did. It was his first step to becoming Caitlyn Jenner. 

Your taking 50mg?? He was only taking 30mg/day. Took him about a month to lose his nuts.


----------



## rammsteinace

no really guys, what should i do, continue , add test in my cycle? or? but i don't want my cycle to be longer than 6 weeks? so if u add tets can i take it 4 weeks only?


----------



## ToolSteel

rammsteinace said:


> no really guys, what should i do, continue , add test in my cycle? or? but i don't want my cycle to be longer than 6 weeks? so if u add tets can i take it 4 weeks only?



Stop everything before you completely screw yourself up. You have no business touching gear until you've educated yourself.


----------



## rammsteinace

should i complete this week? my second week?


----------



## rammsteinace

btw i had amazing results with using only suplements, lost 11kg pure fat , made good muscles , i was shredded , i dont know why the **** i listened to a friend to take winstrol onlly cycle for finishing ...he also told me if i stop it i will become female , only if i finish the cycle everything will be allright ...


----------



## ToolSteel

rammsteinace said:


> should i complete this week? my second week?


No. Stop now. And start reading. 
We'll help you learn but you gotta help yourself first.


----------



## ron1204

rammsteinace said:


> btw i had amazing results with using only suplements, lost 11kg pure fat , made good muscles , i was shredded , i dont know why the **** i listened to a friend to take winstrol onlly cycle for finishing ...he also told me if i stop it i will become female , only if i finish the cycle everything will be allright ...



lmao thats some funny shit


----------



## rammsteinace

allright thanks, do i need any pct or?


----------



## ron1204

if i were you id stop immediately and start a good PCT, i think you haven't been on it long and if your body was working fine before you should be able to get back to it fairly quickly.


----------



## ToolSteel

Since it was only like a week and a half you'd PROBABLY be ok without, but a pct isn't gonna hurt if you can get it quick. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you didn't have it on hand before starting.


----------



## Seeker

Why are we boggling up a stickie? For future reference please start a new thread with your questions


----------



## m98075

I am in the first week of my first cycle and have tolerated 40 mg Dbol and Test E well so far. I took my first prophylactic dose of Anastrozole 0.5 mg and felt odd right after. It felt I had fullness in my throat , No itching or other signs of an allergic reaction but I got concerned and took some benadryl (12.5 mg) . The symptoms lasted an hour and then subsided. Has anyone experienced anything like this ? I know there is a debate of using AI prophylactically vs PRN but after reading about Anastrozole it seems like this is a really powerful drug.
With my experience today I have three options:
1. Not using AI unless I develop signs of gyno -nipple itchiness, irrtiation, lump etc and if that does happen then either end the cycle and PCT or try another AI? 
2. Try 0.25 every 3 days. It will be difficult to split the pill into 4 quarters but can try.
3. Try the same does with small dose of benadryl to be on the safe side. 
Is it common to get estrogen side effects if not on AI?   Your input would be appreciated.


----------



## m98075

Disregard the above. I started a thread with the same question.


----------



## pgcc0313

m98075 said:


> I am in the first week of my first cycle and have tolerated 40 mg Dbol and Test E well so far. I took my first prophylactic dose of Anastrozole 0.5 mg and felt odd right after. It felt I had fullness in my throat , No itching or other signs of an allergic reaction but I got concerned and took some benadryl (12.5 mg) . The symptoms lasted an hour and then subsided. Has anyone experienced anything like this ? I know there is a debate of using AI prophylactically vs PRN but after reading about Anastrozole it seems like this is a really powerful drug.
> With my experience today I have three options:
> 1. Not using AI unless I develop signs of gyno -nipple itchiness, irrtiation, lump etc and if that does happen then either end the cycle and PCT or try another AI?
> 2. Try 0.25 every 3 days. It will be difficult to split the pill into 4 quarters but can try.
> 3. Try the same does with small dose of benadryl to be on the safe side.
> Is it common to get estrogen side effects if not on AI?   Your input would be appreciated.


I would have went with option one from the start. Not everyone gets gyno or estro sides, everyone is different. You may not need anything


----------



## Smeeds

Hey everybody whats up,

New to the forum, been training seriously for about two years, made some pretty good gains. Here to learn more about this sport I've grown to love. thanks for this post, it gives me a good place to start. Any other reading recommendations from anyone?


----------



## Ada

Excelente!!!


----------



## Ironcrusher

Excellent post!!


----------



## gorilla86

Excellent guideline! Will definitely use this when I get ready to run my first cycle.


----------



## Bro Bundy

jamessmith147369 said:


> nice thread...


Nice avi!!! Hell of a smile you got


----------



## Stooge

If someone would make a post like this covering blood work that would be awesome.


----------



## The New Guy

awesome write up. (im replying because i cant figure out how to save the thread and want to be able to find it again)


----------



## Trump

I remember my first cycle I listened to the guy selling it to me instead of researching like a bafoon, he had me on Sust Deca and Dbol. When I asked about PCT he said just dont come off thats what most people do. Needless to say I royally ****ed myself up for a long time estrogen was through the roof I am guessing coundnt get hard and when I did couldnt cum no matter what. Posts like this are where every Newbie should start. My body bounced back on its own but I bet it was a year of viagra and misery if i remember rightly


----------



## Elivo

So i know this is an old ass thread, ive read it several times though, it seems now the current thought process is to run test only as a first cycle, this thread talks about running test/dbol as a first cycle. 
Has there been a change in thinking or just new info since this was originally posted has come out. Or is it all just a matter of preference?


----------



## Seeker

Elivo said:


> So i know this is an old ass thread, ive read it several times though, it seems now the current thought process is to run test only as a first cycle, this thread talks about running test/dbol as a first cycle.
> Has there been a change in thinking or just new info since this was originally posted has come out. Or is it all just a matter of preference?



My stance has always been the same. I've not been a great  fan of this stickie for the reason of adding the oral. test only has always been my recommendation


----------



## PillarofBalance

Seeker is a pussy tho. Dbol is the greatest thing mankind has invented.

Fight me seek


----------



## Bro Bundy

I think it depends on the person to do a test only or a oral+test for a first cycle..Im all for orals and test as a first cycle


----------



## automatondan

PillarofBalance said:


> Seeker is a pussy tho. Dbol is the greatest thing mankind has invented.
> 
> Fight me seek



I thought drol was....? Please post reference.


----------



## Seeker

PillarofBalance said:


> Seeker is a pussy tho. Dbol is the greatest thing mankind has invented.
> 
> Fight me seek



lol the days are approaching.  you know how much I love dbol but I just advise  common sense approaches.


----------



## PillarofBalance

Seeker said:


> lol the days are approaching.  you know how much I love dbol but I just advise  common sense approaches.



Haha I hear ya... compton? 

I think running an oral at the beginning of a first cycle so long as the person is cautioned that after stopping the dbol the weight gain will stop for a couple weeks and strength will plateau. They just need to trust that the test will kick and that's where the real gains start.


----------



## Elivo

Thanks for the input guys. Im still a ways off from any potential first cycle but i want to be as informed as i can before hand.


----------



## Bizzybone

Thanks, this definitely helped me, I've been researching and comparing cycles and I find dbol+test e is the best one for a beginner's cycle. Thanks


----------



## Blusoul24

And THIS.....threads like this one are the reason I joined this forum. As someone who wants to do a first cycle, but also prefers to be cautious and prepared, it’s great to see experienced member suggestion patience instead of just “Bro-ing” it up. This is great stuff. I’ve learned more in the last couple of days reading on UG than anywhere else. Thanks all!


----------



## HollyWoodCole

Good to see you guys leveraging resources such as these on the forum.  This is one of the best starter threads ever IMO.


----------



## Elivo

Bizzybone said:


> Thanks, this definitely helped me, I've been researching and comparing cycles and I find dbol+test e is the best one for a beginner's cycle. Thanks



This post aside, most of the vets around here will recommend a test only for a first cycle, although some will say toss the oral in there as well. More or less a personal choice, but I see the benifit of going test only, it gives you a chance tell how you deal with just one compound as far as sides, thst way you’re not guessing what’s causing it if you run more than one.


----------



## PillarofBalance

HollyWoodCole said:


> Good to see you guys leveraging resources such as these on the forum.  This is one of the best starter threads ever IMO.



Leveraging resources?

Bro this is a board not a board room.


----------



## HydroEJP88

PillarofBalance said:


> Leveraging resources?
> 
> Bro this is a board not a board room.



Wait. Does this mean that I don't have stock in the company and I really didn't need to buy this suit?


----------



## HollyWoodCole

PillarofBalance said:


> Leveraging resources?
> 
> Bro this is a board not a board room.


Work related lingo spilling over into the UG.......sorry boss.  Won't happen again.  Allow me to give a more Yaya appropriate response.


Gled you fuks are reading sum of thsi stiff finaly.  Who knows where the cat's pants went?  My ballz itch tew mich.


----------



## Elivo

HollyWoodCole said:


> Work related lingo spilling over into the UG.......sorry boss.  Won't happen again.  Allow me to give a more Yaya appropriate response.
> 
> 
> Gled you fuks are reading sum of thsi stiff finaly.  Who knows where the cat's pants went?  My ballz itch tew mich.



the cats pants LOL!!


----------



## dgs70425

Definitely needed to read this, and still have a ton of research to do before I even seriously consider starting a cycle. Thank you for the information. It's much appreciated.


----------



## BATMAN

Good Thread.


----------



## Lilguy041

Great post, I will definitely be doing this to the “T” (umm no pun intended) when I do my first cycle here shortly.


----------



## Elivo

Lilguy041 said:


> Great post, I will definitely be doing this to the “T” (umm no pun intended) when I do my first cycle here shortly.



A larger consensus feels that for a first cycle, it should be test only.


----------



## MrRippedZilla

****. I'll have the updated first cycle sticky up after new years. It's been a busy month.


----------



## Lilguy041

Elivo said:


> A larger consensus feels that for a first cycle, it should be test only.


I know T is one of my issues I just had it checked about 3 weeks ago and It was at 475. I’m a healthy 30 year old.


----------



## Grego

ish i would have had this before my first cycle


----------



## John Ziegler

Get Some said:


> Here is what I think is a good starter cycle for just about anyone. Please feel free to add to this or comment as you wish. This is an open forum for educated members so I'd like your feedback. These are my own words, not taken from anywhere, so feel free to comment away.
> 
> *Note - If this is truly your first cycle experience, please read all the way through and watch the videos*
> 
> *Part 1: The Cycle (Injection will be discussed later in the post)*
> 
> Ingredients: Testosterone (Cypionate or Enanthate), Dianabol 10mg tabs
> 
> Testosterone   500mg EW   Weeks 1-10  (two 250mg shots per week)
> Dianabol          30mg  ED    Weeks 1-4   (3 separate doses, 4-6 hours apart)
> 
> The first 4 weeks should be plenty of time to make great gains on Dbol. The first time I ever took dbol was at 25mg ED and I had awesome gains, so 30mg ED should be more than enough for a beginner. Also, that dose should be free of really painful back pumps for most people. By week 5 the Test should be reaching peak blood plasma levels and really kicking into gear.
> 
> *Part 2: Protection & Maintenance*
> 
> Ingredients: Arimidex or Exemestane and HCG
> 
> Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) - Use as needed when gyno starts to develop
> Arimidex at 0.25mg to 0.5mg EOD or E3D and Exemestane at 12.5mg EOD
> 
> Testosterone and especially Dbol can cause male breast tissue to develop during the course of your cycle. This can be treated by using a suicide inhibibiting AI. This will actually stop the conversion to estrogen, thus limiting gyno growth. Nolvadex can also be used, but it merely blocks the receptor by occupying it and will not stop the aromatase process. You can run an AI throughout the cycle to help avoid getting gyno in the first place, but I choose not to because it can cause joint soreness and irritation if taken too often.
> 
> *Part 2b: HCG*
> 
> Ingredients: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> HCG  250 IU  Twice Weekly starting at week 4 or 5
> 
> I am a huge advocate of HCG. It mimics Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in the testes and will keep them from atrophying (shrinking), thus increasing the chances of full recovery for the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA).
> 
> HCG is administered most commonly through subcutaneous (subQ) injection with an insulin needle (slin pin). It comes as a lypholized powder and needs to be reconstituted with bacteriostatic water (bac water or bac). It's much easier than it sounds. SubQ injections are also much easier than the Intramuscular ones you will need to perform when injecting gear.
> 
> Here is a video on how to inject subcutaneously:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Part 3: Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)*
> 
> Ingredients: HCG and Nolvadex and/or Clomid
> 
> For a 10 week cycle as such, 4 weeks of PCT can be recommended. I like to use a combination of the drugs Nolvadex (Nolva) and Clomid. However, beacuse of the half life of the Enanthate or Cypionate ester in the Testosterone, you must wait at least 3 weeks for your blood levels to drop below normal. At this point, your body will attempt a recovery of your suppressed HPTA. So, your PCT will start week 14.
> 
> In weeks 11-13 there will be no injections of any hormones. Blood plasma levels will peak somewhere in the middle of that time frame and then decline to the end. Herein lies the possibility of backloading a cycle with Testosterone propionate. However, I don't think it's necessary or appropriate for a new user to worry about doing this the first time around. Here is the HCG schedule for weeks 11-13:
> 
> Week 11: 250 IUs twice that week
> Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
> Week 13: 500 IUs EOD
> 
> *Note - DISCONTINUE use of HCG prior to commencing PCT
> 
> Week 14: 100mg Clomid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 15: 100mg Colmid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 16: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> Week 17: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> 
> *Note - Either drug may be used alone, but I believe both used together are of greater value than either by itself
> 
> After week 17, if you've done everything correctly, you should be almost fully recovered. Your body may take a few more weeks to kick back into gear, but you should be well on your way.
> 
> At this point it is recommended that you give your body (and your endocrine system) some much needed time "off." Going by the book, you should take as much time off ans you spent on plus time for PCT. So, 13 weeks leading up to PCT plus 4 weeks of PCT equals 17 weeks off. On the 18th week off you can begin a new cycle if you wish to do so at this time. Many people take much less time off than is recommended, but to be on the safe side, this is what I recommend.
> 
> *Needle selection and Injection*
> 
> For most guys, a 23 to 25 guage needle thickness is perfect for injecting oil based AAS into the muscle. If you are of average BF% (15% to 20%) you will likely need a 1.5" needle length to get the job done in the glutes. For the shoulders, thighs, and ventroglute areas a 1" long needle will suffice.
> 
> Here is a good site that discusses different injection sites and techniques...
> 
> http://spotinjections.com/
> 
> If you are drawing the oil from a vial, I always recommend using a different needle to draw and to inject. Use a 20 or 21 guage needle to draw, as it will be much easier than trying to draw with a 23g or 25g. Simply screw off the drawing needle and replace it with a fresh sterile injection needle. Pull the amount of air into the syringe that corresponds with the amount of oil you will draw out. Insert the needle into the vial, depress the plunger on the syringe to push the air inside. This will help you pull the oil out of the vial. This is much easier if you have the vial upside down.
> 
> Here is a video that discusses Intramuscular injections (Next Post): The only difference I would advise is that instead of taking "3-5 seconds" to inject, spread it out over 30 seconds or more. This will help to desrease injection soreness that may arise later on.
> 
> As a final note I would like to point out that this information is intended to educate you on the proper procedure for completing a successful cycle for the first time. However, it is not an authoritative guide for success. You alone determine the success of your cycle through your dedication to diet and training.
> 
> Prior to attmepting this cycle, you should have a number of solid training years under your belt, have your diet up to par, and be free from any injuries. AAS will increase your strength far more rapidly than when training naturally and this will put stress on your connective tissues. This is a terrible idea if you are aready suffering from an injury.
> 
> If this is the first thing you are reading about cycling AAS congratulations, you have more information than most people when starting their first cycle. HOWEVER, there is still more research to be done.
> 
> 1. Know what side effects to expect from each drug and how to deal with them
> 2. What to do if something goes awry
> 3. Always have all of your gear (including PCT items) in hand before you start the cycle
> 4. Research testosterone esters and their "half-lives"
> 5. Feel like you're more than ready when you start
> 6. This is no joke....you simply can't half ass it and have even decent results
> 
> **IMPORTANT**
> As a side note, you probably WILL NOT find a reliable source right out of the gate. Trust me, this is for the better. It will force you to get invloved in forums discussing AAS and you will learn more everyday and meet great people. Somewhere down the road (hopefully sooner than later) you will find a reliable source. The number one rule you should follow is never ask anyone directly for a new source (or on the open forum for that matter) that you don't personally know. They are either going to ignore, cuss you out, or scam you. Any way you look at it, not a good proposition.



a lot of people come here (to ugbb) for this thread in particular its probably the most popular viewed of all 

any way we can toss it in the garbage & have someone else write one up for the sticky this one sucks


----------



## Gadawg

The pct is definitely way overdosed from my limited understanding of pct


----------



## John Ziegler

Dbol isnt necessary in a first cycle and will confuse the estrogen spill over learning curve

you want to master the basics of foundation (testosterone) of a first cycle


----------



## PillarofBalance

John Ziegler said:


> Dbol isnt necessary in a first cycle and will confuse the estrogen spill over learning curve
> 
> you want to master the basics of foundation (testosterone) of a first cycle



I think we already did this I think. We agreed to rewrite this piece?


----------



## Seeker

PillarofBalance said:


> I think we already did this I think. We agreed to rewrite this piece?



lol poor Zilla.The guy is busy! it's on his to do list.


----------



## MrRippedZilla

Have mercy you ****s. I really can't give an accurate timeline for when it'll be done but it will be done eventually. Patience is a virtue and stuff.


----------



## PillarofBalance

Seeker said:


> lol poor Zilla.The guy is busy! it's on his to do list.





MrRippedZilla said:


> Have mercy you ****s. I really can't give an accurate timeline for when it'll be done but it will be done eventually. Patience is a virtue and stuff.



Haha wasn't being pushy. Just couldn't recall exactly.


----------



## Mgbillias

Damn, this sounds more complicated to a new middle age man to get used to. I’m not looking to get huge, just looking for a glimpse of myself from 20 years ago.


----------



## PillarofBalance

Mgbillias said:


> Damn, this sounds more complicated to a new middle age man to get used to. I’m not looking to get huge, just looking for a glimpse of myself from 20 years ago.



Steroids are for getting huge, sounds like you probably just need some training and diet help.


----------



## Hinton421

Ok so just to touch up on something I have heard very recently, sorry if it's been talked about very very fresh here, but I have heard that like test E 250  you would wanna do about 350mg twice weekly too see 500mg overall anyone know how true that may be?


----------



## Jin

Hinton421 said:


> Ok so just to touch up on something I have heard very recently, sorry if it's been talked about very very fresh here, but I have heard that like test E 250  you would wanna do about 350mg twice weekly too see 500mg overall anyone know how true that may be?



No. Because that’s not correct. 

350 x 2 = X

X =\= 500

Numbers is hard.


----------



## automatondan

Hinton421 said:


> Ok so just to touch up on something I have heard very recently, sorry if it's been talked about very very fresh here, but I have heard that like test E 250  you would wanna do about 350mg twice weekly too see 500mg overall anyone know how true that may be?



Are you referring to the effect the enanthate ester has on testosterone on a mg/mg basis related to other esters...?


----------



## Trump

I almost sent the same reply as Jin this morning and then stopped and thought what auto said.


----------



## Jin

Trump said:


> I almost sent the same reply as Jin this morning and then stopped and thought what auto said.



I knew what he might be getting at, but couldn’t help myself


----------



## PillarofBalance

Hinton421 said:


> Ok so just to touch up on something I have heard very recently, sorry if it's been talked about very very fresh here, but I have heard that like test E 250  you would wanna do about 350mg twice weekly too see 500mg overall anyone know how true that may be?



You are probably talking about ester weight. Don't worry about that. Just use the concentration provided in the label such as 250mg.


----------



## Hinton421

What I meant was (let's say I do 350mg every 5 days that comes out to about 70mg a day for five days then you take 70*7 that's comes out to 490 mg a week so I suppose it's just how you run your cycle I did a lol more digging but I mislead u guys with the twice weekly thing..&#55357;&#56837;


----------



## Straight30weight

250, twice a week. Easy peasy


----------



## mp420

Get Some said:


> Here is what I think is a good starter cycle for just about anyone. Please feel free to add to this or comment as you wish. This is an open forum for educated members so I'd like your feedback. These are my own words, not taken from anywhere, so feel free to comment away.
> 
> *Note - If this is truly your first cycle experience, please read all the way through and watch the videos*
> 
> *Part 1: The Cycle (Injection will be discussed later in the post)*
> 
> Ingredients: Testosterone (Cypionate or Enanthate), Dianabol 10mg tabs
> 
> Testosterone   500mg EW   Weeks 1-10  (two 250mg shots per week)
> Dianabol          30mg  ED    Weeks 1-4   (3 separate doses, 4-6 hours apart)
> 
> The first 4 weeks should be plenty of time to make great gains on Dbol. The first time I ever took dbol was at 25mg ED and I had awesome gains, so 30mg ED should be more than enough for a beginner. Also, that dose should be free of really painful back pumps for most people. By week 5 the Test should be reaching peak blood plasma levels and really kicking into gear.
> 
> *Part 2: Protection & Maintenance*
> 
> Ingredients: Arimidex or Exemestane and HCG
> 
> Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) - Use as needed when gyno starts to develop
> Arimidex at 0.25mg to 0.5mg EOD or E3D and Exemestane at 12.5mg EOD
> 
> Testosterone and especially Dbol can cause male breast tissue to develop during the course of your cycle. This can be treated by using a suicide inhibibiting AI. This will actually stop the conversion to estrogen, thus limiting gyno growth. Nolvadex can also be used, but it merely blocks the receptor by occupying it and will not stop the aromatase process. You can run an AI throughout the cycle to help avoid getting gyno in the first place, but I choose not to because it can cause joint soreness and irritation if taken too often.
> 
> *Part 2b: HCG*
> 
> Ingredients: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> HCG  250 IU  Twice Weekly starting at week 4 or 5
> 
> I am a huge advocate of HCG. It mimics Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in the testes and will keep them from atrophying (shrinking), thus increasing the chances of full recovery for the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA).
> 
> HCG is administered most commonly through subcutaneous (subQ) injection with an insulin needle (slin pin). It comes as a lypholized powder and needs to be reconstituted with bacteriostatic water (bac water or bac). It's much easier than it sounds. SubQ injections are also much easier than the Intramuscular ones you will need to perform when injecting gear.
> 
> Here is a video on how to inject subcutaneously:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Part 3: Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)*
> 
> Ingredients: HCG and Nolvadex and/or Clomid
> 
> For a 10 week cycle as such, 4 weeks of PCT can be recommended. I like to use a combination of the drugs Nolvadex (Nolva) and Clomid. However, beacuse of the half life of the Enanthate or Cypionate ester in the Testosterone, you must wait at least 3 weeks for your blood levels to drop below normal. At this point, your body will attempt a recovery of your suppressed HPTA. So, your PCT will start week 14.
> 
> In weeks 11-13 there will be no injections of any hormones. Blood plasma levels will peak somewhere in the middle of that time frame and then decline to the end. Herein lies the possibility of backloading a cycle with Testosterone propionate. However, I don't think it's necessary or appropriate for a new user to worry about doing this the first time around. Here is the HCG schedule for weeks 11-13:
> 
> Week 11: 250 IUs twice that week
> Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
> Week 13: 500 IUs EOD
> 
> *Note - DISCONTINUE use of HCG prior to commencing PCT
> 
> Week 14: 100mg Clomid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 15: 100mg Colmid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 16: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> Week 17: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> 
> *Note - Either drug may be used alone, but I believe both used together are of greater value than either by itself
> 
> After week 17, if you've done everything correctly, you should be almost fully recovered. Your body may take a few more weeks to kick back into gear, but you should be well on your way.
> 
> At this point it is recommended that you give your body (and your endocrine system) some much needed time "off." Going by the book, you should take as much time off ans you spent on plus time for PCT. So, 13 weeks leading up to PCT plus 4 weeks of PCT equals 17 weeks off. On the 18th week off you can begin a new cycle if you wish to do so at this time. Many people take much less time off than is recommended, but to be on the safe side, this is what I recommend.
> 
> *Needle selection and Injection*
> 
> For most guys, a 23 to 25 guage needle thickness is perfect for injecting oil based AAS into the muscle. If you are of average BF% (15% to 20%) you will likely need a 1.5" needle length to get the job done in the glutes. For the shoulders, thighs, and ventroglute areas a 1" long needle will suffice.
> 
> Here is a good site that discusses different injection sites and techniques...
> 
> http://spotinjections.com/
> 
> If you are drawing the oil from a vial, I always recommend using a different needle to draw and to inject. Use a 20 or 21 guage needle to draw, as it will be much easier than trying to draw with a 23g or 25g. Simply screw off the drawing needle and replace it with a fresh sterile injection needle. Pull the amount of air into the syringe that corresponds with the amount of oil you will draw out. Insert the needle into the vial, depress the plunger on the syringe to push the air inside. This will help you pull the oil out of the vial. This is much easier if you have the vial upside down.
> 
> Here is a video that discusses Intramuscular injections (Next Post): The only difference I would advise is that instead of taking "3-5 seconds" to inject, spread it out over 30 seconds or more. This will help to desrease injection soreness that may arise later on.
> 
> As a final note I would like to point out that this information is intended to educate you on the proper procedure for completing a successful cycle for the first time. However, it is not an authoritative guide for success. You alone determine the success of your cycle through your dedication to diet and training.
> 
> Prior to attmepting this cycle, you should have a number of solid training years under your belt, have your diet up to par, and be free from any injuries. AAS will increase your strength far more rapidly than when training naturally and this will put stress on your connective tissues. This is a terrible idea if you are aready suffering from an injury.
> 
> If this is the first thing you are reading about cycling AAS congratulations, you have more information than most people when starting their first cycle. HOWEVER, there is still more research to be done.
> 
> 1. Know what side effects to expect from each drug and how to deal with them
> 2. What to do if something goes awry
> 3. Always have all of your gear (including PCT items) in hand before you start the cycle
> 4. Research testosterone esters and their "half-lives"
> 5. Feel like you're more than ready when you start
> 6. This is no joke....you simply can't half ass it and have even decent results
> 
> **IMPORTANT**
> As a side note, you probably WILL NOT find a reliable source right out of the gate. Trust me, this is for the better. It will force you to get invloved in forums discussing AAS and you will learn more everyday and meet great people. Somewhere down the road (hopefully sooner than later) you will find a reliable source. The number one rule you should follow is never ask anyone directly for a new source (or on the open forum for that matter) that you don't personally know. They are either going to ignore, cuss you out, or scam you. Any way you look at it, not a good proposition.


but hgc cannot be avoided because you take it for granted that the testicles are atrophied


----------



## motown1002

Not everyone takes HCG,  (HGC either)  lol


----------



## mp420

motown1002 said:


> Not everyone takes HCG,  (HGC either)  lol



I think it should only be taken if the testicles are atrophied


----------



## MrRippedZilla

mp420 said:


> I think it should only be taken if the testicles are atrophied


You would be wrong since the data conclusively shows that hCG is much more effective when taken before the problem arises vs after. That is why you have the significant dose differences when taken before vs after too. 

Whenever I get round to writing that 1st cycle article, I'll be recommending 250iu 2xweek as a must for anyone who cares about maximizing their chances of recovery.


----------



## Seeker

MrRippedZilla said:


> You would be wrong since the data conclusively shows that hCG is much more effective when taken before the problem arises vs after. That is why you have the significant dose differences when taken before vs after too.
> 
> Whenever I get round to writing that 1st cycle article, I'll be recommending 250iu 2xweek as a must for anyone who cares about maximizing their chances of recovery.



lol Haha! I'm gonna PM you every week till you do


----------



## Jin

MrRippedZilla said:


> You would be wrong since the data conclusively shows that hCG is much more effective when taken before the problem arises vs after. That is why you have the significant dose differences when taken before vs after too.
> 
> Whenever I get round to writing that 1st cycle article, I'll be recommending 250iu 2xweek as a must for anyone who cares about maximizing their chances of recovery.



Yes. 

Here’s the analogy:

What do you do with a car battery you know you won’t be using for a while?

Let it die then try to recharge it. 

OR

Hook it up to a a trickle charger. 

Which one is better for the battery in the long term?


----------



## oldman

*Old Man, first cycle*

Okay, so I'm 63. Been in a gym for most of my life but although a lifter, always been more of a runner. Never have had a lot of muscle just tone.
Would like to add some muscle to my frame.

I have 2ea 10/100mg bottles of Trenbelone Acetate 100 and 2ea 10/100mg of Winstrol. Not sure what to do properly and if I should even have Winstrol. 
What would any of you recommend? After reading everything I am confused as to PCT. Most everything I read is for large amounts injected in large guys and they are destroying everything from the large amounts.
Not wanting to inject large amounts just nicely bulking up some so what sort of stuff do I need for PCT?. 
Maybe something like 4 to 6 weeks max and be done, no more cycles.
Should I just stick with the Trenbelone? And if so, what sort of PCT would I need for that?
Or maybe add something to the Winstrol and go through a cycle with that (do a PCT) and then one cycle with just Trenbelone?


----------



## Robdjents

oldman said:


> Okay, so I'm 63. Been in a gym for most of my life but although a lifter, always been more of a runner. Never have had a lot of muscle just tone.
> Would like to add some muscle to my frame.
> 
> I have 2ea 10/100mg bottles of Trenbelone Acetate 100 and 2ea 10/100mg of Winstrol. Not sure what to do properly and if I should even have Winstrol.
> What would any of you recommend? After reading everything I am confused as to PCT. Most everything I read is for large amounts injected in large guys and they are destroying everything from the large amounts.
> Not wanting to inject large amounts just nicely bulking up some so what sort of stuff do I need for PCT?.
> Maybe something like 4 to 6 weeks max and be done, no more cycles.
> Should I just stick with the Trenbelone? And if so, what sort of PCT would I need for that?
> Or maybe add something to the Winstrol and go through a cycle with that (do a PCT) and then one cycle with just Trenbelone?



Go post this in new member section


----------



## Straight30weight

oldman said:


> Okay, so I'm 63. Been in a gym for most of my life but although a lifter, always been more of a runner. Never have had a lot of muscle just tone.
> Would like to add some muscle to my frame.
> 
> I have 2ea 10/100mg bottles of Trenbelone Acetate 100 and 2ea 10/100mg of Winstrol. Not sure what to do properly and if I should even have Winstrol.
> What would any of you recommend? After reading everything I am confused as to PCT. Most everything I read is for large amounts injected in large guys and they are destroying everything from the large amounts.
> Not wanting to inject large amounts just nicely bulking up some so what sort of stuff do I need for PCT?.
> Maybe something like 4 to 6 weeks max and be done, no more cycles.
> Should I just stick with the Trenbelone? And if so, what sort of PCT would I need for that?
> Or maybe add something to the Winstrol and go through a cycle with that (do a PCT) and then one cycle with just Trenbelone?


No no. No no. And in case you didn’t notice, no.


----------



## videeen

great , definetly will help me.


----------



## bprice

I have read some info on starting HCG 2 weeks after last test pin and 750 mg EOD x4 then 500 EOD x3 250 EOD x2. Is there anything wrong with this?


----------



## Jin

bprice said:


> I have read some info on starting HCG 2 weeks after last test pin and 750 mg EOD x4 then 500 EOD x3 250 EOD x2. Is there anything wrong with this?



Hcg is measured in iu, not mg. 

Old school protocol was blasting (2000iu) post cycle and pre pct. 

Current accepted best practice is running 500iu 2x/wk while on cycle and stopping before pct.


----------



## PJCraZ

So you say that in this case I should stop taking HCG at week 10, then 2 weeks totally of and from week 12 start PCT? 

Or HCG till the "Real" PCT at week 12 starts and then stop HCG?


----------



## pavkica

does nolvadex sticks to/blocks all estrogen receptors in male body or just in the nipples? does it also works in prostate, because high estrogen is harmful for prostate?

thinking of cycling classic arimidex for nolvadex for a couple of weeks on a cycle.


----------



## hellofello

Dianabol is for gaining right. I only want cutting as my first cycle. So should I replace dianabol with something else? Or go go with test enanthate only?


----------



## Trump

all AAS are for gaining muscle



hellofello said:


> Dianabol is for gaining right. I only want cutting as my first cycle. So should I replace dianabol with something else? Or go go with test enanthate only?


----------



## Tatlifter

hellofello said:


> Dianabol is for gaining right. I only want cutting as my first cycle. So should I replace dianabol with something else? Or go go with test enanthate only?



Like trump said AAS is for gaining muslce, diet is for cutting.

But first cycle should be test only...500mg a week.  Any test will do.  Test P,, TPP, TE, TC, Sus, whatever you have and or prefer.


----------



## pavkica

and first cycle should NOT be used for cutting, but for gaining muscle with a calorie suficit, starting from low bodyfat.


----------



## supreme666leader

What about cycle/liver support, what the best to take for that?


----------



## Trump

high quality h2o is the best liver support 



supreme666leader said:


> What about cycle/liver support, what the best to take for that?


----------



## GTWMT

Get Some said:


> Here is what I think is a good starter cycle for just about anyone. Please feel free to add to this or comment as you wish. This is an open forum for educated members so I'd like your feedback. These are my own words, not taken from anywhere, so feel free to comment away.
> 
> *Note - If this is truly your first cycle experience, please read all the way through and watch the videos*
> 
> *Part 1: The Cycle (Injection will be discussed later in the post)*
> 
> Ingredients: Testosterone (Cypionate or Enanthate), Dianabol 10mg tabs
> 
> Testosterone   500mg EW   Weeks 1-10  (two 250mg shots per week)
> Dianabol          30mg  ED    Weeks 1-4   (3 separate doses, 4-6 hours apart)
> 
> The first 4 weeks should be plenty of time to make great gains on Dbol. The first time I ever took dbol was at 25mg ED and I had awesome gains, so 30mg ED should be more than enough for a beginner. Also, that dose should be free of really painful back pumps for most people. By week 5 the Test should be reaching peak blood plasma levels and really kicking into gear.
> 
> *Part 2: Protection & Maintenance*
> 
> Ingredients: Arimidex or Exemestane and HCG
> 
> Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) - Use as needed when gyno starts to develop
> Arimidex at 0.25mg to 0.5mg EOD or E3D and Exemestane at 12.5mg EOD
> 
> Testosterone and especially Dbol can cause male breast tissue to develop during the course of your cycle. This can be treated by using a suicide inhibibiting AI. This will actually stop the conversion to estrogen, thus limiting gyno growth. Nolvadex can also be used, but it merely blocks the receptor by occupying it and will not stop the aromatase process. You can run an AI throughout the cycle to help avoid getting gyno in the first place, but I choose not to because it can cause joint soreness and irritation if taken too often.
> 
> *Part 2b: HCG*
> 
> Ingredients: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> HCG  250 IU  Twice Weekly starting at week 4 or 5
> 
> I am a huge advocate of HCG. It mimics Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in the testes and will keep them from atrophying (shrinking), thus increasing the chances of full recovery for the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA).
> 
> HCG is administered most commonly through subcutaneous (subQ) injection with an insulin needle (slin pin). It comes as a lypholized powder and needs to be reconstituted with bacteriostatic water (bac water or bac). It's much easier than it sounds. SubQ injections are also much easier than the Intramuscular ones you will need to perform when injecting gear.
> 
> Here is a video on how to inject subcutaneously:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Part 3: Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)*
> 
> Ingredients: HCG and Nolvadex and/or Clomid
> 
> For a 10 week cycle as such, 4 weeks of PCT can be recommended. I like to use a combination of the drugs Nolvadex (Nolva) and Clomid. However, beacuse of the half life of the Enanthate or Cypionate ester in the Testosterone, you must wait at least 3 weeks for your blood levels to drop below normal. At this point, your body will attempt a recovery of your suppressed HPTA. So, your PCT will start week 14.
> 
> In weeks 11-13 there will be no injections of any hormones. Blood plasma levels will peak somewhere in the middle of that time frame and then decline to the end. Herein lies the possibility of backloading a cycle with Testosterone propionate. However, I don't think it's necessary or appropriate for a new user to worry about doing this the first time around. Here is the HCG schedule for weeks 11-13:
> 
> Week 11: 250 IUs twice that week
> Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
> Week 13: 500 IUs EOD
> 
> *Note - DISCONTINUE use of HCG prior to commencing PCT
> 
> Week 14: 100mg Clomid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 15: 100mg Colmid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 16: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> Week 17: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> 
> *Note - Either drug may be used alone, but I believe both used together are of greater value than either by itself
> 
> After week 17, if you've done everything correctly, you should be almost fully recovered. Your body may take a few more weeks to kick back into gear, but you should be well on your way.
> 
> At this point it is recommended that you give your body (and your endocrine system) some much needed time "off." Going by the book, you should take as much time off ans you spent on plus time for PCT. So, 13 weeks leading up to PCT plus 4 weeks of PCT equals 17 weeks off. On the 18th week off you can begin a new cycle if you wish to do so at this time. Many people take much less time off than is recommended, but to be on the safe side, this is what I recommend.
> 
> *Needle selection and Injection*
> 
> For most guys, a 23 to 25 guage needle thickness is perfect for injecting oil based AAS into the muscle. If you are of average BF% (15% to 20%) you will likely need a 1.5" needle length to get the job done in the glutes. For the shoulders, thighs, and ventroglute areas a 1" long needle will suffice.
> 
> Here is a good site that discusses different injection sites and techniques...
> 
> http://spotinjections.com/
> 
> If you are drawing the oil from a vial, I always recommend using a different needle to draw and to inject. Use a 20 or 21 guage needle to draw, as it will be much easier than trying to draw with a 23g or 25g. Simply screw off the drawing needle and replace it with a fresh sterile injection needle. Pull the amount of air into the syringe that corresponds with the amount of oil you will draw out. Insert the needle into the vial, depress the plunger on the syringe to push the air inside. This will help you pull the oil out of the vial. This is much easier if you have the vial upside down.
> 
> Here is a video that discusses Intramuscular injections (Next Post): The only difference I would advise is that instead of taking "3-5 seconds" to inject, spread it out over 30 seconds or more. This will help to desrease injection soreness that may arise later on.
> 
> As a final note I would like to point out that this information is intended to educate you on the proper procedure for completing a successful cycle for the first time. However, it is not an authoritative guide for success. You alone determine the success of your cycle through your dedication to diet and training.
> 
> Prior to attmepting this cycle, you should have a number of solid training years under your belt, have your diet up to par, and be free from any injuries. AAS will increase your strength far more rapidly than when training naturally and this will put stress on your connective tissues. This is a terrible idea if you are aready suffering from an injury.
> 
> If this is the first thing you are reading about cycling AAS congratulations, you have more information than most people when starting their first cycle. HOWEVER, there is still more research to be done.
> 
> 1. Know what side effects to expect from each drug and how to deal with them
> 2. What to do if something goes awry
> 3. Always have all of your gear (including PCT items) in hand before you start the cycle
> 4. Research testosterone esters and their "half-lives"
> 5. Feel like you're more than ready when you start
> 6. This is no joke....you simply can't half ass it and have even decent results
> 
> **IMPORTANT**
> As a side note, you probably WILL NOT find a reliable source right out of the gate. Trust me, this is for the better. It will force you to get invloved in forums discussing AAS and you will learn more everyday and meet great people. Somewhere down the road (hopefully sooner than later) you will find a reliable source. The number one rule you should follow is never ask anyone directly for a new source (or on the open forum for that matter) that you don't personally know. They are either going to ignore, cuss you out, or scam you. Any way you look at it, not a good proposition.


Great post mate


----------



## Crom

What's everyone's thoughts on HCG for guy's who are on TRT. Is PCT really necessary or just drop down to your TRT dose? Had a guy at the gym argue me about this. He said even if you are on TRT you have to PCT. I don't think that makes any damn sense. Why the hell would I PCT if I'm on HRT? 
    Thoughts?


----------



## Be_A_Hero

Crom said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on HCG for guy's who are on TRT. Is PCT really necessary or just drop down to your TRT dose? Had a guy at the gym argue me about this. He said even if you are on TRT you have to PCT. I don't think that makes any damn sense. Why the hell would I PCT if I'm on HRT?
> Thoughts?


Agreed pct on TRT makes no sense to me. I’m on HCG too but that’s just to stay fertile


----------



## CJ

Crom said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on HCG for guy's who are on TRT. Is PCT really necessary or just drop down to your TRT dose? Had a guy at the gym argue me about this. He said even if you are on TRT you have to PCT. I don't think that makes any damn sense. Why the hell would I PCT if I'm on HRT?
> Thoughts?


Why would you PCT to try to restart your HPTA, which wasn't functioning properly to begin with, just to go back on TRT and shut down your HPTA?  🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Bro Bundy

this thread brings back some old memories


----------



## Brawn8468

I got my wife pregnant a couple years ago while running Tren Ace  and sustanon. I’m pretty sure it’s because I always run HCG 250iu every 3 days throughout my cycles.


----------



## pgc640

Get Some said:


> Here is what I think is a good starter cycle for just about anyone. Please feel free to add to this or comment as you wish. This is an open forum for educated members so I'd like your feedback. These are my own words, not taken from anywhere, so feel free to comment away.
> 
> *Note - If this is truly your first cycle experience, please read all the way through and watch the videos*
> 
> *Part 1: The Cycle (Injection will be discussed later in the post)*
> 
> Ingredients: Testosterone (Cypionate or Enanthate), Dianabol 10mg tabs
> 
> Testosterone 500mg EW Weeks 1-10 (two 250mg shots per week)
> Dianabol 30mg ED Weeks 1-4 (3 separate doses, 4-6 hours apart)
> 
> The first 4 weeks should be plenty of time to make great gains on Dbol. The first time I ever took dbol was at 25mg ED and I had awesome gains, so 30mg ED should be more than enough for a beginner. Also, that dose should be free of really painful back pumps for most people. By week 5 the Test should be reaching peak blood plasma levels and really kicking into gear.
> 
> *Part 2: Protection & Maintenance*
> 
> Ingredients: Arimidex or Exemestane and HCG
> 
> Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) - Use as needed when gyno starts to develop
> Arimidex at 0.25mg to 0.5mg EOD or E3D and Exemestane at 12.5mg EOD
> 
> Testosterone and especially Dbol can cause male breast tissue to develop during the course of your cycle. This can be treated by using a suicide inhibibiting AI. This will actually stop the conversion to estrogen, thus limiting gyno growth. Nolvadex can also be used, but it merely blocks the receptor by occupying it and will not stop the aromatase process. You can run an AI throughout the cycle to help avoid getting gyno in the first place, but I choose not to because it can cause joint soreness and irritation if taken too often.
> 
> *Part 2b: HCG*
> 
> Ingredients: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> HCG 250 IU Twice Weekly starting at week 4 or 5
> 
> I am a huge advocate of HCG. It mimics Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in the testes and will keep them from atrophying (shrinking), thus increasing the chances of full recovery for the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA).
> 
> HCG is administered most commonly through subcutaneous (subQ) injection with an insulin needle (slin pin). It comes as a lypholized powder and needs to be reconstituted with bacteriostatic water (bac water or bac). It's much easier than it sounds. SubQ injections are also much easier than the Intramuscular ones you will need to perform when injecting gear.
> 
> Here is a video on how to inject subcutaneously:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Part 3: Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)*
> 
> Ingredients: HCG and Nolvadex and/or Clomid
> 
> For a 10 week cycle as such, 4 weeks of PCT can be recommended. I like to use a combination of the drugs Nolvadex (Nolva) and Clomid. However, beacuse of the half life of the Enanthate or Cypionate ester in the Testosterone, you must wait at least 3 weeks for your blood levels to drop below normal. At this point, your body will attempt a recovery of your suppressed HPTA. So, your PCT will start week 14.
> 
> In weeks 11-13 there will be no injections of any hormones. Blood plasma levels will peak somewhere in the middle of that time frame and then decline to the end. Herein lies the possibility of backloading a cycle with Testosterone propionate. However, I don't think it's necessary or appropriate for a new user to worry about doing this the first time around. Here is the HCG schedule for weeks 11-13:
> 
> Week 11: 250 IUs twice that week
> Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
> Week 13: 500 IUs EOD
> 
> *Note - DISCONTINUE use of HCG prior to commencing PCT
> 
> Week 14: 100mg Clomid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 15: 100mg Colmid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 16: 50mg Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> Week 17: 50mg Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> 
> *Note - Either drug may be used alone, but I believe both used together are of greater value than either by itself
> 
> After week 17, if you've done everything correctly, you should be almost fully recovered. Your body may take a few more weeks to kick back into gear, but you should be well on your way.
> 
> At this point it is recommended that you give your body (and your endocrine system) some much needed time "off." Going by the book, you should take as much time off ans you spent on plus time for PCT. So, 13 weeks leading up to PCT plus 4 weeks of PCT equals 17 weeks off. On the 18th week off you can begin a new cycle if you wish to do so at this time. Many people take much less time off than is recommended, but to be on the safe side, this is what I recommend.
> 
> *Needle selection and Injection*
> 
> For most guys, a 23 to 25 guage needle thickness is perfect for injecting oil based AAS into the muscle. If you are of average BF% (15% to 20%) you will likely need a 1.5" needle length to get the job done in the glutes. For the shoulders, thighs, and ventroglute areas a 1" long needle will suffice.
> 
> Here is a good site that discusses different injection sites and techniques...
> 
> http://spotinjections.com/
> 
> If you are drawing the oil from a vial, I always recommend using a different needle to draw and to inject. Use a 20 or 21 guage needle to draw, as it will be much easier than trying to draw with a 23g or 25g. Simply screw off the drawing needle and replace it with a fresh sterile injection needle. Pull the amount of air into the syringe that corresponds with the amount of oil you will draw out. Insert the needle into the vial, depress the plunger on the syringe to push the air inside. This will help you pull the oil out of the vial. This is much easier if you have the vial upside down.
> 
> Here is a video that discusses Intramuscular injections (Next Post): The only difference I would advise is that instead of taking "3-5 seconds" to inject, spread it out over 30 seconds or more. This will help to desrease injection soreness that may arise later on.
> 
> As a final note I would like to point out that this information is intended to educate you on the proper procedure for completing a successful cycle for the first time. However, it is not an authoritative guide for success. You alone determine the success of your cycle through your dedication to diet and training.
> 
> Prior to attmepting this cycle, you should have a number of solid training years under your belt, have your diet up to par, and be free from any injuries. AAS will increase your strength far more rapidly than when training naturally and this will put stress on your connective tissues. This is a terrible idea if you are aready suffering from an injury.
> 
> If this is the first thing you are reading about cycling AAS congratulations, you have more information than most people when starting their first cycle. HOWEVER, there is still more research to be done.
> 
> 1. Know what side effects to expect from each drug and how to deal with them
> 2. What to do if something goes awry
> 3. Always have all of your gear (including PCT items) in hand before you start the cycle
> 4. Research testosterone esters and their "half-lives"
> 5. Feel like you're more than ready when you start
> 6. This is no joke....you simply can't half ass it and have even decent results
> 
> **IMPORTANT**
> As a side note, you probably WILL NOT find a reliable source right out of the gate. Trust me, this is for the better. It will force you to get invloved in forums discussing AAS and you will learn more everyday and meet great people. Somewhere down the road (hopefully sooner than later) you will find a reliable source. The number one rule you should follow is never ask anyone directly for a new source (or on the open forum for that matter) that you don't personally know. They are either going to ignore, cuss you out, or scam you. Any way you look at it, not a good proposition.


I can see you put a whole lot into this post and it's really nice of you to do that for you know younger people or people just starting out the problem is I don't agree with much of anything you say.

the best first cycle bar none is 5 or 600 makes a test a week usually either test E or C. I don't see the purpose in using dbol in a first cycle and I definitely don't seen the purpose of Dbol ever for just 4 weeks.
use 500 to 600 m a test a week split into two dosages a week do it for 12 weeks train hard eat a lot of protein eat clean carbs try to learn as much as you can about diet as you go and train your ass off and you'll be amazed how much muscle you gain off of just that. now file that in your brain because later on when you start reading posts on here a guy's taking 3000 mg of test a week you'll know how ridiculous that is and how stupid.

also include tamoxifen 10 mgs s day to prevent gyno. you don't need an AI especially at the dose that you're taking you might not even need tamoxifen but you definitely don't need an AI. what an AI is going to do is more harm than good if it does anything.

once this 12 weeks is done you could do one of several things you could take two weeks off and go again this time adding some that something else. something like dbol but for 8 weeks at 40 mg not 12. use the test for 12. after these two 12-week runs your body should change considerably at this point you could do a PCT post psychotherapy to get your own testosterone running again once you do stay off as long as you feel is necessary then when you go back on again just try different compounds to try to find out what works best for you but never never use mega doses of anything they don't do you any good. say say these people that are taking 3,000 makes a test a week at a thousand makes a test a week anything over that is not going to cause any more muscle gain than a thousand every steroid has a ceiling it's been proven in studies there was a study done in HIV patients using Anadrol. the study was to see if using over 150 MB of anadril a day would cause these HIV patients to gain more muscle and more weight than 150 m a day. the final conclusion of the double buying study was that 150 is anadrol ceiling. anything over 150 mg is a total waste and is not going to cause any more weight gain or any more muscle gain and it's the same thing with every single steroid you take 3,000 mgs test a week you're pretty much just wasting 2,000 mg a week at least if not more personally I think 750 is the most you should take. don't get wrapped up in these idiots that think mega doses are going to make the body building process which is always a marathon not a Sprint any shorter than it's going to be cuz it's not going to work

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


----------



## RiR0

pgc640 said:


> I can see you put a whole lot into this post and it's really nice of you to do that for you know younger people or people just starting out the problem is I don't agree with much of anything you say.
> 
> the best first cycle bar none is 5 or 600 makes a test a week usually either test E or C. I don't see the purpose in using dbol in a first cycle and I definitely don't seen the purpose of Dbol ever for just 4 weeks.
> use 500 to 600 m a test a week split into two dosages a week do it for 12 weeks train hard eat a lot of protein eat clean carbs try to learn as much as you can about diet as you go and train your ass off and you'll be amazed how much muscle you gain off of just that. now file that in your brain because later on when you start reading posts on here a guy's taking 3000 mg of test a week you'll know how ridiculous that is and how stupid.
> 
> also include tamoxifen 10 mgs s day to prevent gyno. you don't need an AI especially at the dose that you're taking you might not even need tamoxifen but you definitely don't need an AI. what an AI is going to do is more harm than good if it does anything.
> 
> once this 12 weeks is done you could do one of several things you could take two weeks off and go again this time adding some that something else. something like dbol but for 8 weeks at 40 mg not 12. use the test for 12. after these two 12-week runs your body should change considerably at this point you could do a PCT post psychotherapy to get your own testosterone running again once you do stay off as long as you feel is necessary then when you go back on again just try different compounds to try to find out what works best for you but never never use mega doses of anything they don't do you any good. say say these people that are taking 3,000 makes a test a week at a thousand makes a test a week anything over that is not going to cause any more muscle gain than a thousand every steroid has a ceiling it's been proven in studies there was a study done in HIV patients using Anadrol. the study was to see if using over 150 MB of anadril a day would cause these HIV patients to gain more muscle and more weight than 150 m a day. the final conclusion of the double buying study was that 150 is anadrol ceiling. anything over 150 mg is a total waste and is not going to cause any more weight gain or any more muscle gain and it's the same thing with every single steroid you take 3,000 mgs test a week you're pretty much just wasting 2,000 mg a week at least if not more personally I think 750 is the most you should take. don't get wrapped up in these idiots that think mega doses are going to make the body building process which is always a marathon not a Sprint any shorter than it's going to be cuz it's not going to work
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


You’ve obviously never taken more than 150mg of anadrol or 1000mg of test. 
I think you should post a pic of your physique to show that you’ve actually put into practice anything and not just vomiting shit out of your brain or that you’ve read.

I was unaware that aids patients are training hard and eating a ton of food


----------



## Send0

RiR0 said:


> You’ve obviously never taken more than 150mg of anadrol or 1000mg of test.
> I think you should post a pic of your physique to show that you’ve actually put into practice anything and not just vomiting shit out of your brain or that you’ve read.
> 
> I was unaware that aids patients are training hard and eating a ton of food


But he said post psychotherapy and 150 megabytes of anadrol.

How could we be dismissive of such new and cutting edge ideas such as this? 😅

He even enlightened us to how there are so many people that are doing over 3000mg of test per week. I had no idea people could inject that much test into their ass... another piece of valuable insight. 🙄


----------



## pgc640

RiR0 said:


> You’ve obviously never taken more than 150mg of anadrol or 1000mg of test.
> I think you should post a pic of your physique to show that you’ve actually put into practice anything and not just vomiting shit out of your brain or that you’ve read.
> 
> I was unaware that aids patients are training hard and eating a ton of food


sure I have no problem with posting past pictures when I competed in pictures right now but it's going to make you look really fucking stupid.
you young guys are all out of your mind you think you know everything you think you need 3,000 mg of test a week and yes I have taken over a thousand makes a test I took 1500 and it didn't know more than a thousand did and I never exceeded 150 MX Anadrol cuz it's not needed I never exceed 50 I've done 15 NPC contests I've done five national level NPC contest I finished second at the junior USA 3rd at the junior USA second at the junior Nationals at the USA and 7th at the USA tell me what you've done tell me what expertise you have or what qualifications you have to tell people to use 3,000 mg to test a week like an idiot?.

is that enough pictures man or you want to be embarrassed more?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			























Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## pgc640

Send0 said:


> But he said post psychotherapy and 150 megabytes of anadrol.
> 
> How could we be dismissive of such new and cutting edge ideas such as this?
> 
> He even enlightened us to how there are so many people that are doing over 3000mg of test per week. I had no idea people could inject that much test into their ass... another piece of valuable insight.


I can't believe how idiotic you people are you young guys are fucking stupid as hell and that's why you're getting nowhere why don't you take a look at the pictures I just posted underneath and then why don't you post some pictures of yourself and let's see how good your message working

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## pgc640

friend of mine on here that is the same age as me came up with the same time learn the same things we pretty much agree on everything told me he stays the fuck out of these conversation with you young kids now I see why he says because your heart has and you won't listen it's as soon as people start talking about a thousand makes a trend and 3,000 makes a test he walks the fuck away and he won't help anybody. what the hell is wrong with you guys seriously do you think someone like me with 31 years of experience can hurt you in some way you think I'm on here writing this shit because I want to waste my time I actually wanted to help you people because you're so fucking lost you don't know what the hell is going on from what I can read here but you know what screw you figure your shit out yourself I'm not writing anything else you could go look like I said look at the pictures and just feel stupid as stupid as you possibly can and if you have the guts post your own pictures

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## pgc640

pgc640 said:


> I can't believe how idiotic you people are you young guys are fucking stupid as hell and that's why you're getting nowhere why don't you take a look at the pictures I just posted underneath and then why don't you post some pictures of yourself and let's see how good your message working
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


this board is unbelievable they're making fun of me from misspelling you want to know why I misspelling I had a cornea transplant I'm blind in one eye I have to talk into the phone I can't type I can't really make paragraphs so I know it's annoying to read without paragraphs that's why I misspelled because the talk to text it's very bad I try to do my best but like I said it'll be four months before I can see out of my other eye. you guys are real fucking brain surgeons aren't you with real empathy for other people you know what go shoot your 3,000 mg of test go kill yourself like Boston Lloyd you're a bunch of fucking retards

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## pgc640

this is the last time I'm posting on this forum I'm curious to see after I posted those pictures how many replies I get after that and how many just go away out of embarrassment.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## pgc640

wow you guys couldn't shut up could you until I posted those pictures where the fuck are you now? you lost your voice? do you just feel really fucking stupid that you talk to me like that when I almost be Danny Hester at the USA? that's the problem with these forums No One ever knows who the fuck they're talking to and they can go on and disrespect somebody with tremendous resumes and not even know it and then end up feeling like a fool when they find out. it's amazing how you all shut up though

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## pgc640

Send0 said:


> But he said post psychotherapy and 150 megabytes of anadrol.
> 
> How could we be dismissive of such new and cutting edge ideas such as this?
> 
> He even enlightened us to how there are so many people that are doing over 3000mg of test per week. I had no idea people could inject that much test into their ass... another piece of valuable insight.


you had a whole lot to say didn't you where are you now? where did you go you lose your voice you lose your ability to type or you just totally embarrassed after I posted those pictures. you guys are a bunch of idiots you don't even know who you're talking to and you go off with some stupidity all I was trying to do is help because most of you guys don't know what the fuck you're doing

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## pgc640

Send0 said:


> But he said post psychotherapy and 150 megabytes of anadrol.
> 
> How could we be dismissive of such new and cutting edge ideas such as this?
> 
> He even enlightened us to how there are so many people that are doing over 3000mg of test per week. I had no idea people could inject that much test into their ass... another piece of valuable insight.


you know you're a real genius you dismiss a medical study posted in the American journal of Medicine using HIV patients because they're not training and eating like a bodybuilder because it says that over 150 mg they do not gain any more muscle than under 150 mg? the thing is they're saying they do gain a significant amount of muscle under 150 mg it just stops at 150 and they Gain No More do you understand this or you're too stupid? or do you just want an excuse to take adanadril a day like an idiot. you asked me to post pictures I haven't heard a fucking word from you since and I probably won't ever post pictures that was the stupidest request you ever made you don't know who the fuck you're talking to you have no idea

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## pgc640

pgc640 said:


> you know you're a real genius you dismiss a medical study posted in the American journal of Medicine using HIV patients because they're not training and eating like a bodybuilder because it says that over 150 mg they do not gain any more muscle than under 150 mg? the thing is they're saying they do gain a significant amount of muscle under 150 mg it just stops at 150 and they Gain No More do you understand this or you're too stupid? or do you just want an excuse to take adanadril a day like an idiot. you asked me to post pictures I haven't heard a fucking word from you since and I probably won't ever post pictures that was the stupidest request you ever made you don't know who the fuck you're talking to you have no idea
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


I've been looking at medicine journal articles about steroids for years and you can never find articles that are based on athletic performance because there's no medical reason to give steroids for athletic performance you have to be creative you have to look for studies on steroids and then fit them into athletic performance like I did with the HIV study if 150 mg plus does not work for HIV patients any better than 150 mg why would it work better for a bodybuilder? I got to get off this fucking board and stop cuz you guys got me infuriated you just a bunch of fucking useless idiots that no absolutely nothing that came at the wrong fucking guy at the wrong time and now you look like a bunch of idiots

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## pgc640

I'm still wondering where you all went you couldn't shut the fuck up right until I posted the pictures now you won't say a goddamn thing I guess what could you say I look like shit I take 3,000 mg of test this guy doesn't and he could step on me?

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## Trump

@pgc640 most guys on here are from the USA and are probably in bed. I not wanting to join in the argument just letting you know


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## notsoswoleCPA

pgc640 said:


> I'm still wondering where you all went you couldn't shut the fuck up right until I posted the pictures now you won't say a goddamn thing I guess what could you say I look like shit I take 3,000 mg of test this guy doesn't and he could step on me?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that you are posting late and everyone is probably sleeping, could it?


----------



## Robdjents

pgc640 said:


> I'm still wondering where you all went you couldn't shut the fuck up right until I posted the pictures now you won't say a goddamn thing I guess what could you say I look like shit I take 3,000 mg of test this guy doesn't and he could step on me?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


First off who the fuck do you think you are??? I’m small as fuck and Im telling you to get bent…

You think cuz you got some muscle and won a few shows we are gonna bow down to you and suck your balls??? Motherfucker we don’t even know you…nobody gives a fuck who you are either just so you know…you could be Arnold and you’d be told to get fucked coming up in our house like that shitting all over the floor like an untrained puppy.

Not to mention nobody here is gonna respect you while you’re calling everyone stupid doesn’t matter how jacked you are…

And who is taking 3k mg of test a month? Nobody is running around spouting that…you’re literally angry over something that doesn’t exist …


----------



## Bridgestone

Robdjents said:


> First off who the fuck do you think you are??? I’m small as fuck and Im telling you to get bent…
> 
> You think cuz you got some muscle and won a few shows we are gonna bow down to you and suck your balls??? Motherfucker we don’t even know you…nobody gives a fuck who you are either just so you know…you could be Arnold and you’d be told to get fucked coming up in our house like that shitting all over the floor like an untrained puppy.
> 
> Not to mention nobody here is gonna respect you while you’re calling everyone stupid doesn’t matter how jacked you are…
> 
> And who is taking 3k mg of test a month? Nobody is running around spouting that…you’re literally angry over something that doesn’t exist …


He types like he's on 3g of test, tren and cocaine.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy

pgc640 said:


> this is the last time I'm posting on this forum I'm curious to see after I posted those pictures how many replies I get after that and how many just go away out of embarrassment.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Bye then. 

You’re not doing anyone a favor simply by gracing us with your presence. 

All your posts have pointed out the OBVIOUS excerpt you make them very wordy. 

We aren’t retards here and you don’t need to act like you’re talking down to us. That’s why I called you “god” in the other thread. 

Nobody knows you here and you don’t just get respect by saying you’re a former bodybuilder. Wow. We all have our own experiences. 

Nobody runs 3 grams of testosterone here. Like I said, we’re not retarded. So valve back the generalities. And for fucks sake condense your posts so you don’t blow out corneas out having to read so much.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy

pgc640 said:


> you know you're a real genius you dismiss a medical study posted in the American journal of Medicine using HIV patients because they're not training and eating like a bodybuilder because it says that over 150 mg they do not gain any more muscle than under 150 mg? the thing is they're saying they do gain a significant amount of muscle under 150 mg it just stops at 150 and they Gain No More do you understand this or you're too stupid? or do you just want an excuse to take adanadril a day like an idiot. you asked me to post pictures I haven't heard a fucking word from you since and I probably won't ever post pictures that was the stupidest request you ever made you don't know who the fuck you're talking to you have no idea
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Um. Cocaine is a hell of a drug but maybe slow down a bit. 

How do you compare yourself to Danny Hester in one post and in this post you’re comparing yourself to a kid sign AIDS. 

150 mg of anadrol to a sick kid that isn’t active prevented muscle wasting and allowed him to gain wait so he wouldn’t, you know, die. You’re going to reference that article (and EVERYONE has because again, you aren’t contributing anything new) and use the article for anadrol and bodybuilding? The two couldn’t be more opposite. 

How do you read what we write and can’t read what your voice to text blabbers into the phone?


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy

pgc640 said:


> I've been looking at medicine journal articles about steroids for years and you can never find articles that are based on athletic performance because there's no medical reason to give steroids for athletic performance you have to be creative you have to look for studies on steroids and then fit them into athletic performance like I did with the HIV study if 150 mg plus does not work for HIV patients any better than 150 mg why would it work better for a bodybuilder? I got to get off this fucking board and stop cuz you guys got me infuriated *you just a bunch of fucking useless idiots that no absolutely nothing that came at the wrong fucking guy at the wrong time and now you look like a bunch of idiots*
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Yea. We look like idiots. 🙄


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy

pgc640 said:


> I'm still wondering where you all went you couldn't shut the fuck up right until I posted the pictures now you won't say a goddamn thing I guess what could you say I look like shit I take 3,000 mg of test this guy doesn't and he could step on me?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


I was asleep. Not up late snorting coke and rambling about how everyone’s an idiot.


----------



## CJ

@pgc640 

Hey, let's reset. Many were unaware of your speech to text issue, so there was some fun had at your expense. It's not really that big of a deal, I hope you can just roll with that. 

Also, you're new. You need to learn our individual personalities, and us yours. There's a learning curve for all of us. It's much easier to ignore something than it is to fight. Pick your battles. 

I'm hoping you stay, I'm sure we can learn some things from you, and maybe even you from us. Who knows, right?

Have a great day!!!


----------



## RiR0

pgc640 said:


> friend of mine on here that is the same age as me came up with the same time learn the same things we pretty much agree on everything told me he stays the fuck out of these conversation with you young kids now I see why he says because your heart has and you won't listen it's as soon as people start talking about a thousand makes a trend and 3,000 makes a test he walks the fuck away and he won't help anybody. what the hell is wrong with you guys seriously do you think someone like me with 31 years of experience can hurt you in some way you think I'm on here writing this shit because I want to waste my time I actually wanted to help you people because you're so fucking lost you don't know what the hell is going on from what I can read here but you know what screw you figure your shit out yourself I'm not writing anything else you could go look like I said look at the pictures and just feel stupid as stupid as you possibly can and if you have the guts post your own pictures
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


I’ve posted pics you meth addled,senile,dyslexic. 
Get your nurse to help you figure out how to find them. 

You know why the younger generation doesn’t listen to you angry old fucks? 
Because you think you know everything but you really don’t know that much. 

Lots of people look at medical journals. Most have no idea how to actually use the information. Case and point you. 

Here I’ll post some more pics


----------



## TODAY

pgc640 said:


> I can't believe how idiotic you people are you young guys are fucking stupid as hell and that's why you're getting nowhere why don't you take a look at the pictures I just posted underneath and then why don't you post some pictures of yourself and let's see how good your message working
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


You're too old to be posting sentences that run on into infinity like this.


----------



## TODAY

31 years of experience and he still gets his pussy lips all twisted up by posts on an internet forum 🙄


----------



## TODAY

Also what in the name of Jesus is happening with the woman in this pic


----------



## TODAY

She managed to smuggle a watermelon into the club


----------



## RiR0

Remember kids it’s either 750mg of testosterone or 3000. There’s apparently no way to dose anywhere in between. 

Wow I’ve learned so much. 
I


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy

RiR0 said:


> Remember kids it’s either 750mg of testosterone or 3000. There’s apparently no way to dose anywhere in between.
> 
> Wow I’ve learned so much.
> I


And I just now read about the poor little AIDS kids wasting away in hospital beds that got 150 mags of anadrol and stopped wasting away. Apparently they got jacked so why would active healthy strong men need to take any more than 150 mg. It works bro. 

You need to be smart like me because there’s no athlete steroid studies because they didn’t do that so you need to read medical journals and find studies that have nothing at all to do with our practical use of steroids but link little sick kids with healthy adult males I’m smart enough to do that but you are all idiots and you don’t know who I am 150 minks is all you need idiots you’re all a bunch of idiots I’m not posting here ever again until I log off and think of more shit to be bitter about idiots.


----------



## TODAY

Okay fine but can we please focus on the cyclops mono-titty



It's destroying my mind


----------



## Bridgestone

TODAY said:


> Okay fine but can we please focus on the cyclops mono-titty
> 
> 
> 
> It's destroying my mind


Photoshop gone wrong.  Tried to magnify tits but they just merged into a blob.


----------



## TODAY

Bridgestone said:


> Photoshop gone wrong.  Tried to magnify tits but they just merged into a blob.


WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


----------



## RiR0

Am I the only one who thinks the way those pics are cropped is a little suspect?


----------



## TODAY

Are you implying that @pgc640 isn't being entirely honest with us?


----------



## Bridgestone

Why all the low quality half assed photos?

Could have done 1 relaxed and another full body showing full physique to showcase your hard work.


----------



## TODAY

You guys need to stop being so judgmental.


Photoshopping physique photos is very difficult when you only have one good eye.


----------



## notsoswoleCPA

TODAY said:


> You guys need to stop being so judgmental.
> 
> 
> Photoshopping physique photos is very difficult when you only have one good eye.


I'm starting to think all those photos of the Iranian Hulk were photoshopped.  He looked like a short fat kid standing next to Martyn Ford.


----------



## lifter6973

How did I miss this? Mr. Olympia also photoshop enhanced his arm in that cyclops watermelon uniboob pic. Look at the elbow.


----------



## Test_subject

This fucking guy.

Why does his old lady’s tit look like she just stole a globe from the party and is hiding it in her shirt?

God-tier shooping skills.


----------



## RiR0

slumbalPanda said:


> Very helpful information and was easy to follow, thank you for posting..


So no you’re not gonna post anything worth while. Good to know


----------



## lifter6973

RiR0 said:


> So no you’re not gonna post anything worth while. Good to know


Is it me or have these numb fuck accounts gone crazy since incel.imperative got the ban hammer?  Fucking unreal the number of dipshits popping up.


----------



## RiR0

lifter6973 said:


> Is it me or have these numb fuck accounts gone crazy since incel.imperative got the ban hammer?  Fucking unreal the number of dipshits popping up.


No it’s not just you. But this guy is probably trying to get post count up to pm a source


----------



## lifter6973

RiR0 said:


> No it’s not just you. But this guy is probably trying to get post count up to pm a source


that new domestic source huh- I missed the price list- liked BBBG black panties


----------



## CJ

RiR0 said:


> No it’s not just you. But this guy is probably trying to get post count up to pm a source


And when I see that happening, I delete the posts and other tactics.


----------



## MaxPower

Well this thread went from extremely helpful, to extremely weird, to extremely hilarious.

Anyway, great write up! Seems as though theres been some updates to the general consensus of a newbie cycle does anyone know if Zilla ever posted the updated one he was talking about in this thread?


----------



## TheConquistador

My buddy with wild mood swings, both outbursts of extreme heart attack rage and suicidal depressive episodes wants to get on steroids. I tell him it is a terrible idea and would lead to something catastrophic. I'm right, right?


----------



## Oriansalem83

Get Some said:


> Here is what I think is a good starter cycle for just about anyone. Please feel free to add to this or comment as you wish. This is an open forum for educated members so I'd like your feedback. These are my own words, not taken from anywhere, so feel free to comment away.
> 
> *Note - If this is truly your first cycle experience, please read all the way through and watch the videos*
> 
> *Part 1: The Cycle (Injection will be discussed later in the post)*
> 
> Ingredients: Testosterone (Cypionate or Enanthate), *Dianabol 10mg tabs
> 
> Testosterone   500mg EW   Weeks 1-10  (two 250mg shots per week)
> +Dianabol          30mg  ED    Weeks 1-4   (3 separate doses, 4-6 hours apart)
> 
> **Dianabol in a first cycle is not recommended for most. *
> 
> +"*Kickstarting*" *your cycle isn't the best recommendation anymore. *
> 
> The first 4 weeks should be plenty of time to make great gains on Dbol. The first time I ever took dbol was at 25mg ED and I had awesome gains, so 30mg ED should be more than enough for a beginner. Also, that dose should be free of really painful back pumps for most people. By week 5 the Test should be reaching peak blood plasma levels and really kicking into gear.
> 
> *Part 2: Protection & Maintenance*
> 
> Ingredients: Arimidex or Exemestane and HCG
> 
> Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) - Use as needed when gyno starts to develop
> Arimidex at 0.25mg to 0.5mg EOD or E3D and Exemestane at 12.5mg EOD
> 
> Testosterone and especially Dbol can cause male breast tissue to develop during the course of your cycle. This can be treated by using a suicide inhibibiting AI. This will actually stop the conversion to estrogen, thus limiting gyno growth. Nolvadex can also be used, but it merely blocks the receptor by occupying it and will not stop the aromatase process. You can run an AI throughout the cycle to help avoid getting gyno in the first place, but I choose not to because it can cause joint soreness and irritation if taken too often.
> 
> *Part 2b: HCG*
> 
> Ingredients: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> HCG  250 IU  Twice Weekly starting at week 4 or 5
> 
> I am a huge advocate of HCG. It mimics Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in the testes and will keep them from atrophying (shrinking), thus increasing the chances of full recovery for the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA).
> 
> HCG is administered most commonly through subcutaneous (subQ) injection with an insulin needle (slin pin). It comes as a lypholized powder and needs to be reconstituted with bacteriostatic water (bac water or bac). It's much easier than it sounds. SubQ injections are also much easier than the Intramuscular ones you will need to perform when injecting gear.
> 
> Here is a video on how to inject subcutaneously:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Part 3: Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)*
> 
> Ingredients: HCG and Nolvadex and/or Clomid
> 
> For a 10 week cycle as such, 4 weeks of PCT can be recommended. I like to use a combination of the drugs Nolvadex (Nolva) and Clomid. However, beacuse of the half life of the Enanthate or Cypionate ester in the Testosterone, you must wait at least 3 weeks for your blood levels to drop below normal. At this point, your body will attempt a recovery of your suppressed HPTA. So, your PCT will start week 14.
> 
> In weeks 11-13 there will be no injections of any hormones. Blood plasma levels will peak somewhere in the middle of that time frame and then decline to the end. Herein lies the possibility of backloading a cycle with Testosterone propionate. However, I don't think it's necessary or appropriate for a new user to worry about doing this the first time around. Here is the HCG schedule for weeks 11-13:
> 
> Week 11: 250 IUs twice that week
> Week 12: 250 IUs EOD
> Week 13: 500 IUs EOD
> 
> *Note - DISCONTINUE use of HCG prior to commencing PCT
> 
> Week 14: 100mg Clomid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 15: 100mg Colmid ED and 40mg Nolva ED
> Week 16: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> Week 17: 50mg  Clomid ED and 20mg Nolva ED
> 
> *Note - Either drug may be used alone, but I believe both used together are of greater value than either by itself
> 
> After week 17, if you've done everything correctly, you should be almost fully recovered. Your body may take a few more weeks to kick back into gear, but you should be well on your way.
> 
> At this point it is recommended that you give your body (and your endocrine system) some much needed time "off." Going by the book, you should take as much time off ans you spent on plus time for PCT. So, 13 weeks leading up to PCT plus 4 weeks of PCT equals 17 weeks off. On the 18th week off you can begin a new cycle if you wish to do so at this time. Many people take much less time off than is recommended, but to be on the safe side, this is what I recommend.
> 
> *Needle selection and Injection*
> 
> For most guys, a 23 to 25 guage needle thickness is perfect for injecting oil based AAS into the muscle. If you are of average BF% (15% to 20%) you will likely need a 1.5" needle length to get the job done in the glutes. For the shoulders, thighs, and ventroglute areas a 1" long needle will suffice.
> 
> Here is a good site that discusses different injection sites and techniques...
> 
> http://spotinjections.com/
> 
> If you are drawing the oil from a vial, I always recommend using a different needle to draw and to inject. Use a 20 or 21 guage needle to draw, as it will be much easier than trying to draw with a 23g or 25g. Simply screw off the drawing needle and replace it with a fresh sterile injection needle. Pull the amount of air into the syringe that corresponds with the amount of oil you will draw out. Insert the needle into the vial, depress the plunger on the syringe to push the air inside. This will help you pull the oil out of the vial. This is much easier if you have the vial upside down.
> 
> Here is a video that discusses Intramuscular injections (Next Post): The only difference I would advise is that instead of taking "3-5 seconds" to inject, spread it out over 30 seconds or more. This will help to desrease injection soreness that may arise later on.
> 
> As a final note I would like to point out that this information is intended to educate you on the proper procedure for completing a successful cycle for the first time. However, it is not an authoritative guide for success. You alone determine the success of your cycle through your dedication to diet and training.
> 
> Prior to attmepting this cycle, you should have a number of solid training years under your belt, have your diet up to par, and be free from any injuries. AAS will increase your strength far more rapidly than when training naturally and this will put stress on your connective tissues. This is a terrible idea if you are aready suffering from an injury.
> 
> If this is the first thing you are reading about cycling AAS congratulations, you have more information than most people when starting their first cycle. HOWEVER, there is still more research to be done.
> 
> 1. Know what side effects to expect from each drug and how to deal with them
> 2. What to do if something goes awry
> 3. Always have all of your gear (including PCT items) in hand before you start the cycle
> 4. Research testosterone esters and their "half-lives"
> 5. Feel like you're more than ready when you start
> 6. This is no joke....you simply can't half ass it and have even decent results
> 
> **IMPORTANT**
> As a side note, you probably WILL NOT find a reliable source right out of the gate. Trust me, this is for the better. It will force you to get invloved in forums discussing AAS and you will learn more everyday and meet great people. Somewhere down the road (hopefully sooner than later) you will find a reliable source. The number one rule you should follow is never ask anyone directly for a new source (or on the open forum for that matter) that you don't personally know. They are either going to ignore, cuss you out, or scam you. Any way you look at it, not a good proposition.


Thank you for writing out all of this!!! Definitely bookmarking it so I know where to go if/when I start. I have the gear - I'm just afraid!


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