# TRT info...is this all good or is there misinformation?



## Rip (May 27, 2014)

Is this on the money or should we disregard particular info here?

Many guys ask for these details. Here is enough info to get started. You probably will not get your doctor aligned with this without a struggle [or a new doctor]. This is really a small part of what most guys need to know. 

TRT: Protocol for Injections 

*	100mg test cypionate or ethanate injected per week with two or more injections per week. 
*	250iu hCG SC EOD [every other day] 
*	1.0mg Arimidex/anastrozole per week in divided doses. 

Injecting testosterone once a week induces spikes in testosterone levels followed by lows. This can make many feel bad or worse at the end of the week than their pre-TRT state. As time goes on the dead zone gets wider and they feel no relief with injections. These feel much better injecting twice a week or even EOD [every other day]. 

Injecting every 2, 3 or 4 weeks is horrible. You need to self inject and inject frequently. With frequent injections the volumes are very small and one can inject in the quads [vastus lateralis] with #29 0.5ml 0.5" [50iu] insulin syringes. 

These are slow to load but injection times are reasonable as the small plunger diameters create very high pressures. Do not use 1.0ml syringes. This same size syringe can be used for hCG injections, which are also SC. 

EDIT: Injecting EOD [sometimes written as E2D] or E3D [every third day] can be a difficult schedule. You can set up reminders or appointments in calendar software, such as MS Outlook, for E2D or E3D etc. 

Small needles will reduce muscle damage. Some use #25 1" needles, but this may not be any "faster" than the above 50iu insulin needles. 

You do not need to inject into your gluts with 1.5" needles! 

Canadian clinical research has demonstrated that TRT by SC [under the skin injections into body fat] produce steadier testosterone levels and improves sense of well-being. Feel free to find out what is more comfortable for you. 

For those who train and sweat/shower a lot, transdermal T creams and gels are not appropriate. 

Transdermal T creams [and patches] are expensive. At best, only about 10% of applied testosterone is absorbed. Transdermal delivered dose is a crap shoot. Guys who have low thyroid levels are typically non-absorbers. Some absorb transdermals at the start, but skin changes can shut off absorption after a while. With injections, there are no unknowns about drug delivery. 

hCG is a water based peptide hormone can be injected to replace the lost LH hormone that TRT shuts down. Without hCG, the LH receptors in the testes are no longer getting activated. The results are: 

*	The testes shrink. Over time for some the testes can eventually become small undifferentiated lumps of collagen. This is drug induced organ failure. The degree of shrinking varies from guy to guy and may be more of a problem for the older guys. 

*	Fertility can be greatly reduced or eliminated. If making babies is important, you need to inject hCG. If hCG is not used, its use after a long time may or may not recover fertility. 

*	When the testes get smaller, some feel an ache in their testes 24x7. hCG injections can eliminate that pain or avoid the whole episode. 

*	When there is no LH or hCG, the scrotum pulls up tight to the body. This has the appearance of a pre-pubescent boy. This is not good for ones sexual self image and this also affects how women perceive you sexually. Some women get very upset when they see this maleness disappear, thus affecting their sexuality and interest in you. 

*	The testes are the single largest producer of the hormone pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is important for proper mental functioning, and is the precursor to all of the steroid hormones such as DHEA, testosterone, DHT, estrogen, cortisol... Injecting hCG prevents a drug induced pregnenolone deficiency and helps support the other hormones. When guys are on T without hCG and then start hCG, they report a significant improvement in mood that many attribute to restored pregnenolone levels. [If that is not the case, hCG must have some direct effects in the brain.] 

When injecting hCG, you inject into the fat under the skin just the same as diabetics inject insulin. The product literature is all about use a fertility drug for women with large IM [injected into muscle] doses. There is no need for men to inject hCG IM. 

Research using SC injections in men has demonstrated the effectiveness of the 250iu EOD dosing. You can seek diabetic patient educational material for insulin injection techniques to use for hCG and/or testosterone injections. 

Elevated normal [30pg/ml and up] serum E2/estradiol can block many of the benefits of testosterone replacement. Serum E2=22pg/ml is near optimal and one should dose anastrozole to get close to this level. Many who start TRT have some good results that soon vanish as E2 levels increase. My recommendation is to start anastrozole at 1.0mg per week [in divided doses] starting the day of the first injection. The let the first follow up E2 lab drive any needed anastrozole dose adjustments. It is not a good idea to wait and see how high E2 levels go before taking action. Dose anastrozole EOD if possible. 

A few guys are anastrozole over responders. This is not known in the drug literature. These guys will get E2 in the single digits and will feel like crap physically and mentally. They may feel a spike of short lived libido as they fall through the E2 levels sweet spot. These guys need to take 1/4th or 1/8th of the expected anastrozole dose -something to watch for. If this is suspected, stop anastrozole for 6-7 days then resume at 1/4th the dose. 

The 100mg dose of injected T should get guys into the 800-900 total testosterone [TT] range. That is nice to see, but one should be looking at free testosterone [FT] or bio-available testosterone [bio-T]. Some docs, who know what they are doing, will not bother checking TT numbers at all. SHBG levels increase with age and FT ratios drop. 

A TT=1000 in a young man is not the same as TT=1000 in an older man with higher SHBG levels as the FT numbers will be well below that of the young man with the same TT. This may very well create TT levels that are above the youthful lab ranges and should not be a concern. Lab ranges shown on lab reports will be age adjusted. You need to be using the ranges for youthful men. 

You need to know about PSA, prostate issues and DREs [digital rectal exam]. E2 is a large cause or aggravator of BPH [enlarged prostate]. Many find that lowering E2 to near E2=22pg/ml improves their BPH and urine flow is improved. 

You need to monitor hematocrit levels as part of your routine lab work.


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## DF (May 27, 2014)

Some of the info is good some not so much.  Most guys will get Rx 100-200mg/week.  Also the Hcg 250iu EOD is probably over kill.  Usually 250iu 2x/week is the norm.  1mg of adex/week will probably tank most guys E2.


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## Kelly (May 27, 2014)

Interesting read...I'm fairly new to this TRT thing and wondering now if there should be more meds introduced with the TRT?  I guess I've never been advised about HCG use with TRT. That article has me wondering now.  Any more experiences you guys have would be greatly appreciated.


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## DF (May 27, 2014)

Kelly said:


> Interesting read...I'm fairly new to this TRT thing and wondering now if there should be more meds introduced with the TRT?  I guess I've never been advised about HCG use with TRT. That article has me wondering now.  Any more experiences you guys have would be greatly appreciated.



How much test are you taking Kelly?


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## snake (May 28, 2014)

Kelly said:


> Interesting read...I'm fairly new to this TRT thing and wondering now if there should be more meds introduced with the TRT?  I guess I've never been advised about HCG use with TRT. That article has me wondering now.  Any more experiences you guys have would be greatly appreciated.



My Doctor never said a word about HCG. From what I know about it, it's a must if you still want to have children; I'm done, to expensive.


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## snake (May 28, 2014)

Regarding the cream; I did it for a little over a year and it sucked! My shirts stuck to me, it was an every day pain in the ass. The biggest drawback was the possibility of cross transmission to the children. 

The most important thing I learned is that the doctors don't know all that much. You need to do your own homework when it comes to TRT.


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## Kelly (May 28, 2014)

Guys, I've been running 200 mg's  of test. cyp. per week.  I've up it to 300 mg since I've rat holed some cyp from all this trial and error. I'm done with kids, 47 yrs. old just graduated my last daughter....just don't want my nuts to shrink up to nothing.  I plan on doing this for quite a few years.  Yes, I think I've educated my doctor some, but you don't want to piss him off with that "I know more than you do" attitude....right now I'm I'm the brink of him letting me do HGH.....definately don't want to piss him on this deal and shit in my own nest...I've leaned on him hard, probably need to be a little more patient.


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## Kelly (May 28, 2014)

also, the cream sucks big...I used it for awhile...way to expensive for it's good....when he said he'd do test cyp, I said yes...been there done that...i'm  good with that.


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## Rip (May 28, 2014)

Thanks, DF. What did you mean by "tank?"
BTW, lowered my TRT to 100mg/week for awhile, but have been doing 200mg/week for the last few weeks. I haven't been doing any AI, but Tonight, I tried to add half of a 12.5mg aromasin. 
When I was at the gym, I noticed that my nipples had that look again. I'm not feeling anything, but they look a little different. Also, I felt more weak than I usually do. I actually felt stronger on the 100mg. Maybe my E is starting to increase.


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## j2048b (May 28, 2014)

Rip said:


> Thanks, DF. What did you mean by "tank?"
> BTW, lowered my TRT to 100mg/week for awhile, but have been doing 200mg/week for the last few weeks. I haven't been doing any AI, but Tonight, I tried to add half of a 12.5mg aromasin.
> When I was at the gym, I noticed that my nipples had that look again. I'm not feeling anything, but they look a little different. Also, I felt more weak than I usually do. I actually felt stronger on the 100mg. Maybe my E is starting to increase.



by "tank" he means destroy to a lower number than ur body needs or wants, thus causing and reaking havoc on them joints...most get away with using .25 of adex 2 times per week, others need more, i know when i was dialed in better, id be getting 1-hcg shot of 250 iu's on sunday, 1-200 mlg shot of t every monday, adex 1 mlg on tuesday and my final shot of hcg of 250 iu's on wednesday and be a-ok...


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## DF (May 28, 2014)

What J20 has said.... When I first started my trt I believe that I was using 200mg/5days & taking 1mg Adex/5days.  When I finally got bloods done my E2 showed as <6, which is pretty low & my joints did feel like crap & I do believe this also led me to severe tendonitis.

During my last blood work I was on 100mg/5days with no AI.  I thought at this low dose I could get away with not using the AI.  My E2 came back at 60.  After the blood work was done I increased my test to 200mg/5days & now taking .25mg Adex E3D.  I am feeling really good at this dose & could cut diamonds with my boners without using ED drugs.


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## jiorio95 (May 28, 2014)

Thanks for the post.  When I found a Dr. who would prescribe me TRT they all really want to do 2/3 weeks before injections.  I finally talked him down to 1/wk, but now I'm fighting the HCG and AI battle with him.  Luckily, he's reasonable and I know he will cave soon but getting TRT is definitely an uphill battle filled with a lot of misinformation.


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## j2048b (May 29, 2014)

jiorio95 said:


> Thanks for the post.  When I found a Dr. who would prescribe me TRT they all really want to do 2/3 weeks before injections.  I finally talked him down to 1/wk, but now I'm fighting the HCG and AI battle with him.  Luckily, he's reasonable and I know he will cave soon but getting TRT is definitely an uphill battle filled with a lot of misinformation.



Yup hcg and an ai seem to really throw a wrench into everything, i recently switched docs locally, and he is all about working w me for trt, i had a brief app today and he said he had never scripted hcg nor an ai, so hopefully in due time he may come around, ill need to take research documents in for him to gain an understanding...

I actually found this doc when i got my last script filled at walgreens, i peeled off my script from the box and low and behold there was a different script underneath from my new doc to one of his patients...so i knew right there he had no issues scripting test to those who needed it!!! Just got to convince him of the ai and hcg thru insurance and im golden


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## jiorio95 (May 29, 2014)

J20 said:


> Yup hcg and an ai seem to really throw a wrench into everything, i recently switched docs locally, and he is all about working w me for trt, i had a brief app today and he said he had never scripted hcg nor an ai, so hopefully in due time he may come around, ill need to take research documents in for him to gain an understanding...
> 
> I actually found this doc when i got my last script filled at walgreens, i peeled off my script from the box and low and behold there was a different script underneath from my new doc to one of his patients...so i knew right there he had no issues scripting test to those who needed it!!! Just got to convince him of the ai and hcg thru insurance and im golden



I'm doing the same, if I find anything worthwhile I will send it your way.


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## j2048b (May 29, 2014)

jiorio95 said:


> I'm doing the same, if I find anything worthwhile I will send it your way.



Thanks and ill do the same, im gonna scour the webz this weekend until my fingers are nubs and my keyboard is full of blood, finger nails, and bone.... Then ill take it all to the doc so he can say "eh, lets just do test.." And ill punch him in his jejunum


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## Rip (May 29, 2014)

Yeah, my Dr. will not prescribe either AIs nor HCG.  Also, she insists that I should be injecting every 2 weeks. Of course I don't do it. 




jiorio95 said:


> Thanks for the post.  When I found a Dr. who would prescribe me TRT they all really want to do 2/3 weeks before injections.  I finally talked him down to 1/wk, but now I'm fighting the HCG and AI battle with him.  Luckily, he's reasonable and I know he will cave soon but getting TRT is definitely an uphill battle filled with a lot of misinformation.


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## jiorio95 (May 29, 2014)

J20 said:


> Thanks and ill do the same, im gonna scour the webz this weekend until my fingers are nubs and my keyboard is full of blood, finger nails, and bone.... Then ill take it all to the doc so he can say "eh, lets just do test.." And ill punch him in his jejunum



Ha, that sounds like when I found a study showing raloxifene reduced pubertal gyno in aged men.  I showed it to him and he said, interesting but no.


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## M_T Pockets (Jul 9, 2014)

It would be nice to have a TRT section on this forum. Many are in that position and many posts are all over the board regarding TRT.
With as much research ive done there are many guys that dont do HCG and are fine. It really depends on the individual so its best to monitor everything. A natty test booster will be sufficient for a lot of guys.
Now I personally feel taking Aromasin is a necessity when on TRT.
I will be doing TRT with time.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 9, 2014)

M_T Pockets said:


> It would be nice to have a TRT section on this forum. Many are in that position and many posts are all over the board regarding TRT.
> With as much research ive done there are many guys that dont do HCG and are fine. It really depends on the individual so its best to monitor everything. A natty test booster will be sufficient for a lot of guys.
> Now I personally feel taking Aromasin is a necessity when on TRT.
> I will be doing TRT with time.



Good idea. We do need a trt foru... oh wait we are in the trt forum that we have had for a couple years now...


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## M_T Pockets (Jul 9, 2014)

LoL. Well you know what I meant haa.
A guy wants to read up the do's n dont's and just get a better understanding of TRT.
Even when you do a TRT search you get zilch.
I just figured it would be a great idea.


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## j2048b (Jul 9, 2014)

Yeah where has creekrat been? We need more info in the trt section along with studies etc... It needs to be updated and maintained!

Can u POB, nominate someone to kind of run the trt section a bit and add studies and open dialogues a bit more?


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## M_T Pockets (Jul 10, 2014)

Bump for this...


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## Redfivestandingby (Apr 3, 2020)

Thank you.


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## Rigorhead (Apr 26, 2020)

I've been on TRT for the last 3 years or so. I'm currently on 140mg/week. The clinic also gives me .75mg anastrozole/week. I take 250 iu of hcg every other week or sometimes every week. 
When I first started TRT my sex drive was so crazy high I felt like a psycho sex fiend. This is wierd, but I started producing a disturbing amount of semen. My balls would ache and I would leak pre-cum constantly. That has gotten better and I guess I've normalized now. My testosterone level was 47 when I first got tested 3 years ago. So it was a huge shock to my system I guess. I feel great, I started working out, and I've lost about 40 pounds of body fat and gained maybe 20 pounds of muscle in the last 3 years. I've completely recompositioned my body. TRT is the best thing I could have done. It's awesome


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