# Knees collapse during squats-now happens during deadlift as well



## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

Hello,

As the title suggests. My legs used to collapse during squatting very heavy and it kind of got fixed when I started wearing high heel shoes during squatting. Now I saw similar nonsense during Deadlift as well.

I am on a deficit but I was still able to do PRs on Jim Wendler program. 

Squat I sat down and coming back up -Knees went in -I kept pushing and then up and legs got straight. 

Deadlift- I bend down and try to pull it up -Knees cave in slightly and then up. Also now since I'm at the heaviest weight I've ever done- 325lb it gets really uncomfortable when my toes are in the ground. That much 

weight on just toes just gives an uncomfortable feeling. However with 295 lbs on the bar during deadlift I'm fine and weight isn't all on toes but sort of well distributed. 

I need a fix otherwise I don't know how will I keep progressing?


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## jennerrator (Mar 8, 2016)

*kind of got fixed when I started wearing high heel shoes during squatting*


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, video??????


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## DieYoungStrong (Mar 8, 2016)

You should be deadlifting in flat soled shoes or socks. Or, if you have the cash, Rostislav 2000s. 

You have to be on your heels for squats and deadlifts. Once you get on your toes with heavy weights, you're dead.


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## Iron1 (Mar 8, 2016)

Are you doing any direct abductor work?


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## BiologicalChemist (Mar 8, 2016)

Damn. I thought you meant your knees collapsed during squat..like they hyper-extended and snapped backwards while you were holding the weight..

kinda like this ..






makes me cringe.


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## Lilo (Mar 8, 2016)

Sounds like time to try the good girl exercises...


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## CardinalJacked (Mar 8, 2016)

My knees would sometimes come in but never collapse. I started pointing my toes out a little more, and focused on shoving me knees out as I descend on my squat.


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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

DieYoungStrong said:


> You should be deadlifting in flat soled shoes or socks. Or, if you have the cash, Rostislav 2000s.
> 
> You have to be on your heels for squats and deadlifts. Once you get on your toes with heavy weights, you're dead.



Deadlifts I do -with no shoes on. 



Iron1 said:


> Are you doing any direct adductor work?


 What is that? 




BiologicalChemist said:


> Damn. I thought you meant your knees collapsed during squat..like they hyper-extended and snapped backwards while you were holding the weight..
> 
> kinda like this ..
> 
> ...


 Oh wow. damn -no nothing like this. Hopefully the safety bars will catch the weight before this happens. 



CardinalJacked said:


> My knees would sometimes come in but never collapse. I started pointing my toes out a little more, and focused on shoving me knees out as I descend on my squat.



They don't collapse -wrong choice of words but cave in. Like come in -instead of staying at the same spot where they are supposed to during the descent. Feels like they are compensating for something weak in my body.


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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtnMCJ472G4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbBYSEZ8ZVw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwLDHJUpfKE



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrT3M_A-VTk


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## snake (Mar 8, 2016)

BiologicalChemist said:


> Damn. I thought you meant your knees collapsed during squat..like they hyper-extended and snapped backwards while you were holding the weight..
> 
> kinda like this ..
> 
> ...



Bio, why, why brother? I felt that in my pp!


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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)




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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)




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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

Deadlift is 230lbs

Did them right after my squats

I did squats 

230lb 260 lb and 290 lbs 

then 290 lbs 260 lbs and 230 lbs 

then 50 reps of 230lb Deadlift -took me I think 6 sets to do 50 reps


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## Iron1 (Mar 8, 2016)

viktor89 said:


> What is that?



Abductor muscles are what you activate to push your knees out.
Weak abductors or not firing them correctly can lead to knees caving. 

imo, drop that weight and keep focusing on form. When you can successfully keep your knees from caving, then you can start adding back the pounds. Fix that squat brother.


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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

Iron1 said:


> Abductor muscles are what you activate to push your knees out.
> Weak abductors or not firing them correctly can lead to knees caving.
> 
> imo, drop that weight and keep focusing on form. When you can successfully keep your knees from caving, then you can start adding back the pounds. Fix that squat brother.



Ok will look them up on youtube. I wonder if I can even do that without machines at home.


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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

I sent the videos to Pillor of balance as well- but he's busy -so i'm awaiting a response from him as well.


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## snake (Mar 8, 2016)

viktor89 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtnMCJ472G4
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbBYSEZ8ZVw
> ...



Just some basic things to do before you even start to think about fixing things. Stop the dive bomb in your squat. You either control that weight or it will control you.

On your DL, you are locking out your legs way to early. Drive the floor away from you with your legs.

Now for the good part; you haven't managed to tear or rip anything...yet. You start fixing some things and you're weights will go up!


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 8, 2016)

Finally got thru the vids.

It's your ankles Viktor.  Your arch is collapsing.


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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Finally got thru the vids.
> 
> It's your ankles Viktor.  Your arch is collapsing.



So what's the fix? Should I put a 2.5lb plate under my feet ? 

Are you PMing me or this is it? that's all I need to fix?


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## viktor89 (Mar 8, 2016)

snake said:


> Just some basic things to do before you even start to think about fixing things. Stop the dive bomb in your squat. You either control that weight or it will control you.
> 
> On your DL, you are locking out your legs way to early. Drive the floor away from you with your legs.
> 
> Now for the good part; you haven't managed to tear or rip anything...yet. You start fixing some things and you're weights will go up!



isn't that with Sumo ? (tearing floor apart) 

I have slowed down? from last videos when I did a form check to now- it's so slow. Do you see in the video -I even got stuck under the weight lol and knees caved in and helped me push the weight back up lol


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## snake (Mar 9, 2016)

viktor89 said:


> isn't that with Sumo ? (tearing floor apart)
> 
> I have slowed down? from last videos when I did a form check to now- it's so slow. Do you see in the video -I even got stuck under the weight lol and knees caved in and helped me push the weight back up lol


"sn't that with Sumo ?" Um..what?
I didn't see a slower video. Iron1 suggest to back the weight down; do that. Try not to drop so fast and so deep with lighter weight and see what happens.


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## ECKSRATED (Mar 9, 2016)

Dude you're squatting in cowboy boots!!! Take those ****ing things off. Think of digging your entire foot into the ground and pushing thru the center of your foot during both lifts.


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## viktor89 (Mar 9, 2016)

ECKSRATED said:


> Dude you're squatting in cowboy boots!!! Take those ****ing things off. Think of digging your entire foot into the ground and pushing thru the center of your foot during both lifts.



They help me push my knees out- like ya'll suggested during the last video I uploaded. The heel is hard and helps me support this heavy weight without collapsing down. lol now my ankles collapse inwards #squatissues


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## viktor89 (Mar 9, 2016)

snake said:


> "sn't that with Sumo ?" Um..what?
> I didn't see a slower video. Iron1 suggest to back the weight down; do that. Try not to drop so fast and so deep with lighter weight and see what happens.



I mean the tearing floor apart -isn't that cue for when doing sumo lifts? 

I meant -I'm slower than before -not sure if you remember but last time I posted videos for critique -you guys thought I was falling down with my weight lol

To be honest- I don't even know how else to squat. What's the benefit of slowing down? (not sarcasm- I'd really like to know) because I don't flip flop with weight-I just go up and down but with some speed. Don't all powerlifters try to do that?


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## Lilo (Mar 9, 2016)

Because it requires a greater force to stop a moving object. 

It's physics, man. Speed helps up to a point, if you move past it, one day you're going to try to set a PR, it's not gonna be fun. Has to be a controlled movement.


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## TheLupinator (Mar 9, 2016)

Generally the faster down the faster up - think of bouncing a basketball off the floor.

You do need to strengthen your hips, glutes, abs - basically everything except your quads.

I would cut the weight in half on regular squats and work on pushing your knees out, keeping your back more perpendicular to the floor, keeping your hips forward. Start with 135lbs for as many you can get without your knees collapsing. Increase reps for the 1 month. Increase weight slowly after that.

Also I would start incorporating box squats - Wide stance, feet pointed forward, and keep your hips and shoulders perpendicular to the floor (keep your hips forward). Start with very low weight (95lbs) and work your way up. Focus on form. This will really hit your hammys, glutes, hips, and quads.

Also keep that back locked on deadlifts - no arch. Shoulders back before you start the lift and push your hips through on the way up. Again cut the weight in half until you solidly your form - do as many reps as you can with perfect form with 135lbs.

Lastly, I would recommend sprint work. Nothing strengthens your glutes, hammys, and really your entire posterior chain like suicide sprints. Also great cardio. (don't do with cowboy boots on).


You can also modify your ab workouts, but this is more than enough shit to change for the next 4 months.


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## John Ziegler (Mar 9, 2016)

Oh ya I remember you viktor your the guy that lives in that gym right ?

Nice gym dude!


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## viktor89 (Mar 9, 2016)

TheLupinator said:


> Generally the faster down the faster up - think of bouncing a basketball off the floor.
> 
> You do need to strengthen your hips, glutes, abs - basically everything except your quads.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot bro for the information.

I guess I'll start with a new program. Then or change all values on Wendler and start from 135 in both deadlift and squat. Just thinking about that makes me tired because I'll have to work all the way back up. 

So far since May 2015 I've been able to consistently increase 10lbs on both deadlift and squats and 5 lbs on bench and OHP. Now re-starting damn.

I was trying to lose weight that's why I didn't wanted to change my program for next 3-4 weeks but I understand form is more important. 

Already down from 230 to 214.


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## viktor89 (Mar 9, 2016)

Zeigler Robertson said:


> Oh ya I remember you viktor your the guy that lives in that gym right ?
> 
> Nice gym dude!



LoL -I sleep in the gym haha 

Thanks


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## viktor89 (Mar 9, 2016)

Also could someone recommend simple exercises I could incorporate in my routine? to fix this. I dont have fancy gym machines. Only free weights.


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## BiologicalChemist (Mar 11, 2016)

snake said:


> Bio, why, why brother? I felt that in my pp!



Lol had to snake. It's every lifters worst nightmare...Even though this would probably never happen to any of us serious/advanced lifters u can still just imagine..


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