# Reflections after a couple of years of using [long]



## shenky (Nov 26, 2014)

Hello friends,

This thread is geared (pun) to those that have not yet gone to the dark side, but are wimsfully considering doing so, or are on the verge of taking their first pin. This is not to persuade or dissuade anyone from doing anything. This is simply my genuine thoughts on my experience thus far, shared with the group that I trust the most in the vast darkness of the internet. It's actually just what I've been ruminating over the last few days. It's not meant to be exhaustive and a lot more is to be said about gear and being on gear (the good and the bad) than the following. My wish is that this helps at least one novice make a more sound decision.My wish is that this helps at least one novice make a more sound decision. 



*A sort of Brief background*

At 24 years young, I had been lifting for quite a number of years off and on. I had, and still do, have a nasty, diseased monkey on my back called drug addiction that all too often led my astray from my goals in aesthetics. By my 25th birthday, having been clean from drugs for a while, I had achieved some personal milestones in bodybuilding. However, say what you will, I do feel that my genetics are poor. My natty test numbers were not remarkable (I believe because of opiate abuse), so maybe this had something to do with it, or more realistically, I just needed to lift and eat longer. In any case, having lifted seriously for two consecutive years, I grew frustrated with what faced me in the mirror and began heavily considering using drugs to achieve the physique I so admired. In retrospect, two years isn’t squat (pun).

**** it, I thought - with knowledge will come a smooth recovery. I scourged the internet for a legit source that was, "g2g", but like many of you were fooled by  big business. Through naps I received several vials of what would be extremely underdosed testosterone. I used this test for 12 weeks. I have no idea why I kept sticking myself with that crap, knowing it wasn't doing me any good. 

I planned a simple PCT with clomid and nolva, however when week 10 came, I opted out, considering that I would be using again shortly; I wasn't about to walk away empty handed. Around this time I discovered the highly acclaimed Pinnacle Labs. Need I say more?  I used their bunk ass, underdosed "NPP" and test prop for a month until I finally had enough. That was it. I had enough and had just about given up. It was time for the ol' PCT. But wait...A SOURCE? Yes, I had discovered a source, and wtf a sale!? A BIG SALE. Now, this specific source has gone sour since;  so I was I was lucky I wasn’t ripped off for a third time! The dude had just surfaced and was trying to make a name for himself, so I caught up with him at a good time.

Anyway, within a few weeks, I had a cycle of deca, dianabol and test at my disposal, and I was NOT about to PCT. **** no, let's do this. I did it. Before I knew it, my cycle was over, I had made amazing gains, the attention from women was unparalleled and everyone I had known prior to the cycle accused me steroids because I was comparatively huge. Felt good, man. 

By this time I had been shut down for 10 months. 10 MONTHS, and I was planning on recovering? After 4 months of deca, arguably the most suppressive drug on the market? 

*The Decision*

I made a personal choice not to recover. I believe recovery is possible, but the financial costs, the loss of gains, and the cost of my mental stability (I was in a bout of depression at the time) loomed over the horizon, had I attempted a recovery. I was looking at a minimum of 10 months to recover (The Dr. over at meso who specializes in men recovering from steroids says that the recovery time is roughly that of the time “on”), but staying off for 10 months was not realistic, as I was certainly planning on using again.  

It’s been a couple of years now that I’ve been using , and in this time I’ve discovered or rediscovered a few important things about steroids. Some of these are things that I knew before I had actually used, but experiencing it myself was still enlightening. I hope this is helpful. 

*Revelation 1: Steroids will not do the work for you
*

STEROIDS ARE NOT MAGIC.  I can not stress this enough. If you think steroids will be easy street, you will be unpleasantly surprised. Steroids are great, and they work, but I swear if you do not know what you are doing natty, you are going to be shut down for few gains, and the gains will be gone after the steroids ware off.  The fact is that the vast majority of people who use steroids do not look amazing because they do not know how to gain naturally

Calories, calories, calories. If you do not eat, you will not gain, and the bigger you get, the more you will have to eat.  We say this all the time on the boards, and I admit I parroted this, but was surprised still at the surplus required to gain over 200 pounds. On deca there was nearly a month where I did not gain a damn pound, and I was eating 4500 calories per day.  Ask the biggest dude in your gym how much he eats on a bulk. You may be surprised. If you want to get big and stay big, you will have to eat uncomfortable amounts of food. It’s not fun. It sounds awesome, but it is not! You will sacrifice time to eat. You will cancel some events because you will not have time to eat. Etc. It’s just part of the game.

*Revelation #2 Dedication *

Redundant, but again, Even on steroids, the commitment to getting bigger has to remain the same. The same dedication and sacrifice in the gym and in the kitchen is necessary to grow like you want to.  I’ve since met a man who (I love this guy because he is a walking pharmacy, but holy shit…) is ALWAYS running this compound or that compound, but he looks pretty much natty. You’d be surprised how many people in your gym are on gear look average. You will have to lift with the same intensity to grow naturally to make great gains on gear. Sure, you can half ass your lifting regiment and still gain because steroids work, but you may be disappointed with the results and/or you will not hold on to them.

*Revelation # 3   Being bigger isn’t what I really want*

Like many of you, I was playing the size game since I began lifting seriously, but I never considered if I would feel better, also.  What I’ve come to find is that the bigger I get, the worse I feel. The larger I get, the less competitive I am in my sport, jiu jitsu. The bigger I get, the less endurance I have.  The bigger I am, the more stiff I am. The bigger I am, the less energy I have. so why? Why would I want to get bigger? To look better? What is looking better, if I feel so much worse?

Maybe I’m alone in this, but I feel best at 185 pounds, at a low BF percentage. My clothes fit less than ideal, but I’m quick, agile  and competitive this is the weight I can kick the most ass. Realistically, I will want to be closer to 190 at a low BF because vanity.

So after all this, I discover I no longer want to be bigger, I want to feel better and be a better fighter.  My last tournament was a huge wake up call because I could have done much better had I been smaller, which is what inspired me to write this out. Jiu-jitsu and BB’ing were never truly compatible, and I knew this, but that tournament was a sort of catharsis, if you will.

With that said I really want to stress to the newbies that stretching, both dynamic and static, are PARAMOUNT to gaining size, and that’s not to say you can’t get bigger without stretching, it’s to say that you have to ****ing stretch while you’re getting bigger, or you will be a ****ing wood plank. You really must be vigilant and aggressive in your stretching regiment to maintain flexibility and decrease risk of injury. When I was 217 after my run with deca, I had a hard time tying my ****ing shoes and wiping my ass.

*Do I regret it?*

I would have certainly done things differently. In retrospect, two years of lifting seriously is not long enough to justify being frustrated with accomplishments. If I know what I know now, I would have probably waited a few more years. Also, I obviously made a few big mistakes. This is my advice to all those looking to start using soon. They’re written as do’s and don’ts, but I’m really just telling you what I would have personally done differently.

-Don’t use steroids until you have made it to over 200 pounds naturally.  I’m 5’6, so obviously the taller you are, the heavier in weight. Some people feel just as good larger. I am either not one of those people, or I should have simply spent more time promoting flexibility, stamina, agility and endurance. The bigger you are the more you have to work on these things, I find, to maintain it.  I am slightly biased because my sport demands more of these qualities, so my weaknesses were magnified, so to speak. 

-Don’t use steroids until you are at least 30. I hear 25 being thrown around a lot. Even at 25, I was still slightly retarded. Hell, I’m still retarded. I feel if I had waited until 30 I could have made more sound decisions. If I had waited, I also would have been fighting for a few years before picking up, which would had made me think through my decision to go on a little differently. I think 30 is when people start settling down a little bit, so that’s why I chose that age. 

-Do not begin cruising until you’ve cycled at least a handful of times and are ready to be on TRT for life. This is self explanatory, but you’d be surprised to find out how many people jump on the cruise and blast train before they even take their first pin. Check out reddit/r/steroids and you’ll know what I mean.

-Use shorter ester if you plan on recovering until you are a more experienced user. You’re shut down for less time. It just makes more sense to me.

-to add to a previous bullet point, STRETCH when bulking. Stretch more aggressively than you were before. You’ll thank me later.

-Do not use until you’ve bulked and cut seriously for at least 3 years.

Will I use again?

Yes, of course, but my goals have changed a little bit, and my approach will be different, My plan is to cut down to single digit BF, and never go above 12 percent, but continue to make slow LBM gains and become more symmetrtical and more aesthetically pleasing. If it takes longer, that’s fine – I’m in this for life, anyway. I am not in a rush.

I know this was long. For those that read it, thank you. I hope this helped someone out there make sound decisions.

Again, this is me being 100 percent honest with you all. Just sharing my experience to hopefully help someone


----------



## BigGameHunter (Nov 26, 2014)

I am impressed by your insight.  You must be pretty good in JJ if your considering dropping weight to be better.  I wouldn't beat yourself up about it, the 165-185 division is where the most talented loom and they have for the last 15 yrs. regardless of your zip code.

Your absolutely right about stretching and a few other points.  I too have struggled with partnering the two sports although I am more of a weight lifter than a PL or BBr but do like to look good.  There is nothing wrong with that.  It is very hard to fool people (training partners) that know exactly how strong and big you were 10 weeks ago.  Great post.


----------



## York (Nov 26, 2014)

Great post shenky. I couldn't agree more on the stretching.


----------



## stonetag (Nov 26, 2014)

Good post bro! I agree with BGH, I also am a weight lifter, and it is being a weight lifter that applies to other sports like JJ, boxing, football, soccer and many others. Your flexibility and range of motion will thank you down the road Shenky for doing what your doing.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Nov 26, 2014)

Nice write up Shenky.  I think you are in the same boat as the majority of guys that are on. Many of us wish we had waited and learned more about nutrition and training.

And if you think you are stiff from bodybuilding give powerlifting a whirl. The tightness is indescribable. I can't pick stuff up off the floor. I have to prepare for it. First I flex the glutes and arch the back. Then knees out and spread the floor. I slowly dip down then up then down further then up and then down again and so on until I reach my target.

If it's something like a paper clip or a credit card it's gone forever.


----------



## nastyNate (Nov 26, 2014)

Good stuff man. I waited till 34 to start which I'm glad about now. I went into it thinking I'll probably go straight to trt after some time on gear which I did. I didn't want to mess with trying to recover and during the mid 30's with a  test level that had taken a hit from my own youthful indiscretions with various drugs taken in super high doses, it felt like the right decision and still does. I came off for about 6 weeks after my first 5 month run and was sitting in the 160's total test. Prior to starting I was 400's. Didn't have anything to lose so got back on. Some guys start so damn young. That wasn't for me but if that is what someone wants to do.....everyone gets to make that choice. I stopped trying to talk people out of stuff like that a long time ago because it doesn't work. Wouldn't have worked for me. I've been lucky that I have the knowledge to manage the side effects well and have access to real ancillaries. This has made the run much better. Some of the sides I've seen......damn it just isn't worth that!


----------



## DB4L (Nov 26, 2014)

Thank you for the valuable insight Shenky. Hope all members who've had many runs under their belts' would make similar posts. 
Your point on stretching is a definite must even for people who aren't on a cycle yet, but just looking to improve in the gym


----------



## schultz1 (Nov 26, 2014)

I can certainly relate to the recovery length. Especially as we get older. I started 0ut this year going to cruise at 150mg. Well that steadily grew to where I was 600mg. A week plus some var. Around 8 weeks ago I decided it was time to regroup and and reevaluate.  Short story long after a good pct. I am just now starting to feel in a recovery mode. Not back 100% but closer than I was 2 weeks ago. My next run will be short esters and no more than 150mg a week. Huge isn't my goal any longer either. Lower bf. And to feel good.


----------



## stonetag (Nov 26, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Nice write up Shenky.  I think you are in the same boat as the majority of guys that are on. Many of us wish we had waited and learned more about nutrition and training.
> 
> And if you think you are stiff from bodybuilding give powerlifting a whirl. The tightness is indescribable. I can't pick stuff up off the floor. I have to prepare for it. First I flex the glutes and arch the back. Then knees out and spread the floor. I slowly dip down then up then down further then up and then down again and so on until I reach my target.
> 
> If it's something like a paper clip or a credit card it's gone forever.


LMFAO!! I know what your saying man, my wife used to say " jesus you make a production out of tying your shoes, grunting and groaning" what does she know....


----------



## NbleSavage (Nov 26, 2014)

Great post, Shenky. Feel you on the importance of stretching and mobility. This has become more & more challenging as I've gotten older. Foam rolling helps me significantly, I just have to remember to do it 

Thanks for the insightful share.


----------



## snake (Nov 26, 2014)

Shenky, nice post.
I like how you do not push your opinions on others. Also congrads on beating your demons brother!

Since we are sharing; I would like to add my thoughts and feelings to the age and time training. I can proudly say that I was lucky and patient enough to see how far I could take my body naturally. I topped out at about 35ish, held for about 5 years with a slow decline.

Don't think there are only questions left unanswered if you go on AAS. I always hear guys saying to someone who is on," Yea, but you ever wonder what you could have done naturally?" The decision to go one or not to go on both carry questions. I find myself wondering what I could have done if I was taking steroids 10 years ago.


----------



## shenky (Nov 26, 2014)

BigGameHunter said:


> I am impressed by your insight.  You must be pretty good in JJ if your considering dropping weight to be better.  I wouldn't beat yourself up about it, the 165-185 division is where the most talented loom and they have for the last 15 yrs. regardless of your zip code.
> 
> Your absolutely right about stretching and a few other points.  I too have struggled with partnering the two sports although I am more of a weight lifter than a PL or BBr but do like to look good.  There is nothing wrong with that.  It is very hard to fool people (training partners) that know exactly how strong and big you were 10 weeks ago.  Great post.



I'm not very good yet, but it's a life long pursuit. 



NbleSavage said:


> Great post, Shenky. Feel you on the importance of stretching and mobility. This has become more & more challenging as I've gotten older. Foam rolling helps me significantly, I just have to remember to do it
> 
> Thanks for the insightful share.



Self mayofascial release, aka foam roaller / tennis balls, have been extremely helpful for me also. I hate doing it, though, and even though it sits in the middle of my living room, I pretend not see it. I call it my medieval torture device. 

Thanks everyone for reading


----------



## cotton2012 (Nov 26, 2014)

I know many may disagree, not know or not want to admit and I'm sure of the flames to come, however I have learned one should incorporate Yoga into their training. Do Yoga so you can do what ever you want to do, whether it be weight lifting (PL,BB) JJ, play golf, sky dive what ever it is, for LONGER. Yoga is about balance and balance is key. It is one of the only workouts that I know of that heals you, instead of constantly tearing you down. It may not help in becoming the greatest PL or BB, but if longevity is your goal it will without a doubt do that for you. There are pros and cons to everything. I do the Bikram variety just as many days a week as I weight train, 3/3 you have to find the perfect marriage of the 2 thats right for you. I'm 5' 8" 239 lbs this morning and at 35 years old now I feel like a kid again, gear or not if you want to look good lift weights, if you want to feel good do Yoga, if you want both…… Well


----------



## shenky (Nov 26, 2014)

cotton2012 said:


> I know many may disagree, not know or not want to admit and I'm sure of the flames to come, however I have learned one should incorporate Yoga into their training. Do Yoga so you can do what ever you want to do, whether it be weight lifting (PL,BB) JJ, play golf, sky dive what ever it is, for LONGER. Yoga is about balance and balance is key. It is one of the only workouts that I know of that heals you, instead of constantly tearing you down. It may not help in becoming the greatest PL or BB, but if longevity is your goal it will without a doubt do that for you. There are pros and cons to everything. I do the Bikram variety just as many days a week as I weight train, 3/3 you have to find the perfect marriage of the 2 thats right for you. I'm 5' 8" 239 lbs this morning and at 35 years old now I feel like a kid again, gear or not if you want to look good lift weights, if you want to feel good do Yoga, if you want both…… Well



No flames here man. Yoga is excellent. If I had more time on my hands it would definitely be part of my regiment.


----------



## BigGameHunter (Nov 26, 2014)

cotton2012 said:


> I know many may disagree, not know or not want to admit and I'm sure of the flames to come, however I have learned one should incorporate Yoga into their training. Do Yoga so you can do what ever you want to do, whether it be weight lifting (PL,BB) JJ, play golf, sky dive what ever it is, for LONGER. Yoga is about balance and balance is key. It is one of the only workouts that I know of that heals you, instead of constantly tearing you down. It may not help in becoming the greatest PL or BB, but if longevity is your goal it will without a doubt do that for you. There are pros and cons to everything. I do the Bikram variety just as many days a week as I weight train, 3/3 you have to find the perfect marriage of the 2 thats right for you. I'm 5' 8" 239 lbs this morning and at 35 years old now I feel like a kid again, gear or not if you want to look good lift weights, if you want to feel good do Yoga, if you want both…… Well



No flame from here Brother.  I cant do Yoga though.  It makes me horny.


----------



## SuperBane (Nov 26, 2014)

BigGameHunter said:


> No flame from here Brother.  I cant do Yoga though.  It makes me horny.



That happens just from watching the women do it, Doesn't it?


----------



## DieYoungStrong (Nov 26, 2014)

BigGameHunter said:


> No flame from here Brother.  I cant do Yoga though.  It makes me horny.



I started doing yoga every Sunday last January and felt great. And also cranked one out everytime I got home. 

I stopped in September when football started. Now I have hip bursitis.


----------



## pilgrim (Nov 26, 2014)

I like this post Nd every ones responses. I'm 44 and trying to decide if I want to do steroids   I'd like to still be lifting at 65 and have good quality of life.having a hell of a time making my mind up but this post was one I needed. Thanks


----------



## Canadian muscle (Nov 26, 2014)

it is great to have a good mindset and realistic goals when using AAS. 

 You could always cycle differently and gear your cycles toward MMA performance.


----------



## nastyNate (Nov 27, 2014)

This is the reason I do yoga😁 a good old set of yoga pants with a rip just next to the ol chocolate starfish and you got some nice calesthenics. 👍 that was my last session. It's a good day


----------



## curtisvill (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you for your thoughtful post Shenky.  It is posts like this that keep me coming back to UG.  I really look forward to being a part of this community.


----------



## obi (Nov 27, 2014)

Awesome post man. Always nice to see how things can be on the other side, coming from someone who's been through the trenches. Shed some light on a lot of things, and makes one think and evaluate more.


----------



## Magical (Dec 2, 2014)

Nice post Shenky


----------



## MASON DIXON (Dec 6, 2014)

Great post Shenky, I appreciate the honesty, and am glad you have given back so to speak to us newbs, gives us a lot to think about, thanks Man!!!


----------



## NbleSavage (Dec 6, 2014)

Yoga = Foreplay


----------



## 502 (Dec 6, 2014)

good post man!


----------



## nightster (Dec 6, 2014)

Nice write up, thanks!


----------



## jSalud (Dec 7, 2014)

hmm yoga huh? ill have to try that one of these days. wife wont like it lol.


----------



## JJyaya (Dec 23, 2014)

Awesome post! Looks like I really need to stretch more.


----------



## Ace Corona (Dec 24, 2014)

Thanks for sharing your personal experience and opinions Shenky, it was enlightening and interesting!


----------



## McDuffy (Dec 29, 2014)

Great post, read the whole thing. My experience has been very similar to yours. I've been sober for over a year now, just turned 27, BB nearly daily for about 6 months and don't know what direction I'm going to head in. I know I can still make gains naturally but i don't want to wait long term for the gains. I'm a very hard worker but with my job its not like it was in highschool, work and stress interfere with the quality of my workouts, and lack of sleep due to work also interferes. Diet I can make sure stays good. Anyway thx for the post.


----------



## powermaster (Dec 30, 2014)

Just read this post and must say great insight. I have heard similar comments on yoga and would not be opposed to bring it but I think there is more to it. Anyway great write u shenky


----------

