# PCT Failed Help Please



## Tribulus (Aug 21, 2018)

Hi fellas,

So I was blasting for too long on gear around 10 months, I did my first cycle then I didnt stop and went onto other compounds and changing my stack and so on, Yes Ive got myself to blame but oh well, no lectures please what is done is done I'm after genuine help on this situation please. I went on a big PCT effort with:

* HCG 500 a week last four weeks on cycle, no pinning HCG off cycle
* Clomid 100mg a day for 8 weeks off cycle
* Nolvadex 40mg a day for 8 weeks off cycle
* Then another two weeks at 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex

Its been another six weeks ontop of the PCT now and my current bloodwork is:

* Total Testosterone Centaur - 1.6 nmol/L
* SHBG 13 nmol/L
* Calculated Free Testosterone 40.4 Pmol/L

What should I do? I can get HRT from my endo with the test cream but if I do that Im worried Ill never bounce back. Should I not do any external test even small doses in the pharma ointment and try to recover? Should I try another pct on Clomid and Nolva? Should I just accept I've blown it and blast again, and just do cruize doses of test forever? I dont want more children and Im already over 40 years old.

One thing, I have off cycle been on a SARMS stack with:

* RAD140
* Cardarine
* Stenabolic
* Ostarine
* Ibutamoren

Now all the research I did on these SARMS say it wont shut you down. Im worried with so little test that if I stop the SARMs Ill loose all my gains and turn into a sulking fat slob looser.

Appreciate genuine advice please thanks


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## Rumpy (Aug 21, 2018)

What was your last cycle or what did you come off of and how long did you wait to start PCT?


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## Tribulus (Aug 21, 2018)

Cecelia said:


> What was your last cycle or what did you come off of and how long did you wait to start PCT?



I commenced PCT immediately on having the last of short ester gear leaving my system a few days and no more HCG. So the last compounds on the 10 month cycle was tren ace, test prop and masteron prop before starting PCT

Over the 10 month blast I was on Test, NPP, EQ, Mast, Tren, Primo, Anavar, Androl, HCG in various stacks that I changed up


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## Tribulus (Aug 21, 2018)

Also in case anyone asks, the clomid and nolva was pharma grade, thanks


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## Jin (Aug 21, 2018)

Might try dropping the sarms and running another pct. 

if you shut yourself down permanently at least you did it right that's quite a list of AAS for a single run.


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## Robdjents (Aug 21, 2018)

sounds like you just bought yourself a ticket to a lifetime of trt....at least you know how to pin...like jin said drop the sarms try another pct and if you dont come back head to the trt clinic.


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## Tribulus (Aug 21, 2018)

Thanks guys

So a second PCT, should I hit it first with HCG then do the Clomid/Nolva or go straight to it? I know for many who have secondary hypognodaism that SERMS raise it while on without the infertility issues of HRT. Not that it matters in my case, but I suspect the ol lady might complain if it tastes different  Haha


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## Jin (Aug 21, 2018)

Tribulus said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> So a second PCT, should I hit it first with HCG then do the Clomid/Nolva or go straight to it? I know for many who have secondary hypognodaism that SERMS raise it while on without the infertility issues of HRT. Not that it matters in my case, but I suspect the ol lady might complain if it tastes different  Haha



Let Those shit sarms leave your system. Blast hcg 2,000iu 3x/wk for a couple weeks then pct. May as well be thorough as the outcome could define your life from henceforth.


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## Oblivious (Aug 21, 2018)

Ive seen multiple people swear by mega doses of HCG, im no expert but here is to it working 
so basically for two weeks before the second pct you can do 5000IU on the first day and then 4000 the second 3000 the third and 2000 the forth and 1000 the fifth day and 500 the 6th and 250 the 7th  and the start of the second week you can do 1000 daily and after he 7th day you start your clomid and nolva


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## Jin (Aug 21, 2018)

Oblivious said:


> Ive seen multiple people swear by mega doses of HCG, im no expert but here is to it working
> so basically for two weeks before the second pct you can do 5000IU on the first day and then 4000 the second 3000 the third and 2000 the forth and 1000 the fifth day and 500 the 6th and 250 the 7th  and the start of the second week you can do 1000 daily and after he 7th day you start your clomid and nolva



Is that some sort of magic formula? Is there any science behind it? Do you have any personal experience with this protocol?

There is no reason to inject hcg daily. 

while I appreciate your enthusiasm in wanting to help this guy, the bottom is that this is a big deal for him.

Advice shouldn't be given haphazardly from a youth with little experience. 

For your information I was on hcg monotherapy for months. Under doctors supervision I tried many different high dose protocols and based on these, my results (bloodwork) and research I made my recommendation to OP. 

Focus on learning now. You'll have time to advise once you have some experience.

edit: your advice isn't harmful (just a waste of hcg) but giving advice based on hearsay is potentially so.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 21, 2018)

Sarms absolutely shut you down.


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## gymrat827 (Aug 21, 2018)

so you took all 5 sarms while in pct..?


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 21, 2018)

gymrat827 said:


> so you took all 5 sarms while in pct..?



I keep bringing up the unethical way in which these are being marketed. I mean they actually state that they don't shut you down. And it's tough to argue in some cases because these are investigational drugs.


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## gymrat827 (Aug 21, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> I keep bringing up the unethical way in which these are being marketed. I mean they actually state that they don't shut you down. And it's tough to argue in some cases because these are investigational drugs.



IK

The whole running sarms during pct is the dumbest thing ever.  Even tho they are weak, your taking them at the worst possible time you could take anything aside nolva, clomid, hcg or ralox.


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## KINGIV (Aug 21, 2018)

Yes, RAD140 & Ostarine are suppressive in the studies I've seen.  Drop the sarms and run PCT again.


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## KINGIV (Aug 21, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> I keep bringing up the unethical way in which these are being marketed. I mean they actually state that they don't shut you down. And it's tough to argue in some cases because these are investigational drugs.



 Yeah but you can even find some studies that state specifically that they are suppressive. 

I guess the pushers figured since people are catching on that they're not as strong as steroids they need to find another angle to market it by just blatantly lying to them and selling it as a PCT product LOL

 I don't understand how people just put shit in their body with little to no research at all.


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## Jin (Aug 22, 2018)

KINGIV said:


> I don't understand how people just put shit in their body with little to no research at all.



This is the basis for most of all my gripes on UG.


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## Mythos (Aug 22, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Sarms absolutely shut you down.



T H I S

They shut you down for little benefit..


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## Tribulus (Aug 22, 2018)

I can see the value of this forum, considered input, I appreciate it fellas. Thanks

1. I wasnt on SARMS while on PCT. Perhaps my phrase "while off cycle" is ambiguous but what I meant is, I did a long PCT and then only recently moved to a SARMS stack.

2. Its not a foregone conclusion that my issue has a root cause of SARM use. To suggest I havent done research is false. The facts of the science are that cardarine, stenabolic and ibutamoren are not associated with intefering with HPTA or have anything to do with being anabolic. Those three are all about cardio and encouraging my natural GH levels. While on cycle with tren in particular, I found it really good as it brought my cardio back, improved my HDL to LDL lipid profile and generally seemed to assist with tren sides. I dont want to have to afford real GH so having a method that works to raise GH a bit is useful. I was feeling lousy with such low T and I think the SARMS helped my mood and sense of well being, but clearly something is wrong with the failure of PCT and its clearly sensible to try a second PCT and to stop SARMS. I realise that ostarine and rad140 are anabolic to a mild extent, but the research Ive seen says that the evidence is, those two compounds do not have suppresive qualities. Im fully aware that Ive seen research showing ligandrol to be suppressive, but Im not taking that compound. Its poor thinking to attempt to brush all SARMS in one category. If there is real evidence of ostarine and or rad140 being suppressive in clinically factual settings, then Im very interested in seeing it and learning from it. All I can say is that of the two anabolic sarms Ive taken, both in the research Ive seen demonstrate they arent suppressive.

3. Ive ordered my HCG and will commence the first phase as per Jins help "Blast hcg 2,000iu 3x/wk for a couple weeks then pct" thanks for the suggestion. Ill try both clomid and nolva, any dosage suggestions?

I think it could be equally possible my mistakes on a way too long cycle despite it being my first is the root cause rather than SARMS. Anyway it will be interesting to see how I go with this, Ive stopped the SARMS and will pin the HCG as soon as it arrives, then move into PCT as suggested.

Cheers fellas


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## John Ziegler (Aug 22, 2018)

Youre not the pct type youve already proved that with your 10 month cycle at 40 lol

go on trt between cycles from now on 

unless you wana turn into a fat little girl  



Now close the thread


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## gymrat827 (Aug 22, 2018)

yea that 10 month cycle threw you off.  Plus after taking clomind/nolva for 4-6wks without any effect you should of began to worry.  

Anyone taking that amount of serms, for that length of time.....should see something from it.


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## Oblivious (Aug 23, 2018)

Jin said:


> Is that some sort of magic formula? Is there any science behind it? Do you have any personal experience with this protocol?
> 
> There is no reason to inject hcg daily.
> 
> ...


my first cycle was with anavar only and it absolutely shut me down, I did that HCG run and it seemed to work


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## gymrat827 (Aug 24, 2018)

Oblivious said:


> my first cycle was with anavar only and it absolutely shut me down, I did that HCG run and it seemed to work



You did an hcg only pct for just anavar...??


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## Oblivious (Aug 24, 2018)

gymrat827 said:


> You did an hcg only pct for just anavar...??


i didnt know any better


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## DevilDoc87 (Aug 25, 2018)

Oblivious said:


> i didnt know any better



I was fortunate enough to stay away as a kid in high school when others were doing it, and my LPO in the military HM2 McElhenney refused to allow me to do it until I gave a ten min presentation to him covering all kinds of shit.. from the diff types, what they do, how they do it, esters all the way down to what I would do for PCT at the end of however long cycle. Took me over 6 months of going hard about every day learning and creating/tweaking a cycle etc.. Turned out good and brought me in. He kept a watchful eye out for me though which was cool.


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## Bizzybone (Aug 25, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> I was fortunate enough to stay away as a kid in high school when others were doing it, and my LPO in the military refused to allow me to do it until I gave a ten min presentation to him covering all kinds of shit.. from the diff types, what they do, how they do it, esters all the way down to what I would do for PCT at the end of however long cycle. Took me over 6 months of going hard about every day learning and creating/tweaking a cycle etc.. Turned out good and brought me in. He kept a watchful eye out for me though which was cool.



Why put his name on blast tho, assuming he's still in? Lol. Steroids are a controlled substance as you already know assuming you're a corpsman, you can still get UCMJ for it unless you have a script.


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## Bizzybone (Aug 25, 2018)

But that still pretty awesome of him to look after you!


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## DevilDoc87 (Aug 25, 2018)

Bizzybone said:


> Why put his name on blast tho, assuming he's still in? Lol. Steroids are a controlled substance as you already know assuming you're a corpsman, you can still get UCMJ for it unless you have a script.



This was like 10-11 years ago, highly doubt he’s still in and if so, it’s only hearsay and no substantial evidence, even if there was only one person with that name.


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## Bizzybone (Aug 26, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> This was like 10-11 years ago, highly doubt he’s still in and if so, it’s only hearsay and no substantial evidence, even if there was only one person with that name.


Damn I didn't realize you were in years ago, especially during war time! I got nothing but respect for you!


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## Oblivious (Aug 27, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> I was fortunate enough to stay away as a kid in high school when others were doing it, and my LPO in the military HM2 McElhenney refused to allow me to do it until I gave a ten min presentation to him covering all kinds of shit.. from the diff types, what they do, how they do it, esters all the way down to what I would do for PCT at the end of however long cycle. Took me over 6 months of going hard about every day learning and creating/tweaking a cycle etc.. Turned out good and brought me in. He kept a watchful eye out for me though which was cool.


The problem is some guy i the gym lied to me. He said just do anavar only and youll recover like normal.
2 of my other friends bought the anavar and we gained MASSIVE amounts of muscle, one of my friends went up almost 20 lbs in 8 weeks and its not common at at all, I went from 183 to 203 and and went back to 195 at a lower body fat than I started after I ran a second bottle of anavar 2 months after.
I only lost 2 lbs of muscle after stopping because I did the HCG. mean whille both of my friends lost EVERYTHING because they didnt take a single thing for pct. 
I believe the HCG worked. I did HCG only because thats all I had month for really. 
I


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## Jin (Aug 27, 2018)

Oblivious said:


> The problem is some guy i the gym lied to me. He said just do anavar only and youll recover like normal.
> 2 of my other friends bought the anavar and we gained MASSIVE amounts of muscle, one of my friends went up almost 20 lbs in 8 weeks and its not common at at all, I went from 183 to 203 and and went back to 195 at a lower body fat than I started after I ran a second bottle of anavar 2 months after.
> I only lost 2 lbs of muscle after stopping because I did the HCG. mean whille both of my friends lost EVERYTHING because they didnt take a single thing for pct.
> I believe the HCG worked. I did HCG only because thats all I had month for really.
> I



We've already gone over this. 20 pounds in eight weeks= not anavar.


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## Oblivious (Aug 27, 2018)

Jin said:


> We've already gone over this. 20 pounds in eight weeks= not anavar.


which oral do you think could have done it ?


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## Oblivious (Aug 27, 2018)

Jin said:


> We've already gone over this. 20 pounds in eight weeks= not anavar.


and i think you are forgetting i lost alot of fat and water after ? and did another 8 weeks after the first one ?


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## Jin (Aug 27, 2018)

Oblivious said:


> which oral do you think could have done it ?



An oral which causes significant water retention: dbol or drol. 

Anavar causes none. So you'd need to have gained 20lbs of a combination of fat and muscle. Sounds like you weren't going up in bodyfat which means if it were anavar it'd be 20lbs of muscle. Which is impossible. So it had to be a compound which promoted muscle growth and water retention.


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