# Not going as planned



## Btcowboy (May 13, 2022)

Thought I would post here as not all read my log. 

47 almost 48, a powerlifter. Last comp in November competed at 242. Looking to cut to 180 by end of year. Current weight 216. 

Gear currently 
6iu GH fasted ED
30mg tren a ED
50mg test c ED
Var  40mg ED

I lift 4 days a week  following my prep program so a fair bit of volume. I also do 30mins fasted cardio and 30 mins cardio after supper everyday, all LISS. 

Nutrition as follows
2146 Cals
169g carbs
53g fat
247g protein

I can post up the entire days food if needed. 

Issue, 5 weeks ago I hit 212lbs but every week since I have gained back weight. I for the life of me dont see how. I am fairly strict with the diet, and have a cheat meal Friday night with wife and it sits about 1000 cals which is 600 over if it wasnt a cheat meal. So no way thats putting me 3500 over. 

I am just looking for thoughts, insight, ideas, others may have.


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## RiR0 (May 13, 2022)

🤔 is your body composition and strength improving?


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## Btcowboy (May 13, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> 🤔 is your body composition and strength improving?


Strength has not dropped much even with the current loss of about 30lbs BW. I believe composition has changed some but seems to have levelled off.


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## PZT (May 13, 2022)

Do you incorporate carb cycling?


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## snake (May 13, 2022)

Before I assume anything, give me some information. Are you planning to compete at the 181s? What were your best meet lifts in the 242? Oh and what's your height?


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## CJ (May 13, 2022)

You dropped 30 lbs in 6 months, that's a long time to be dieting down. 

Could it just be time to hang out here for awhile, before the next leg of the weight loss plan?  🤔


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## Btcowboy (May 13, 2022)

PZT said:


> Do you incorporate carb cycling?


I have less carbs during non lifting days


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## Btcowboy (May 13, 2022)

snake said:


> Before I assume anything, give me some information. Are you planning to compete at the 181s? What were your best meet lifts in the 242? Oh and what's your height?


No the plan would be to go back up compete and maintain 198. I dont need to hit 180 exactly just want to drop as much fat as possible.

Meet lifts fell a little flat due to a torn hamstring 4 weeks out. 
Squat 275 plan was 405
Bench 265 hit 285 but called for sinking
Deadlift 501

I am 5 ft 10


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## Btcowboy (May 13, 2022)

CJ said:


> You dropped 30 lbs in 6 months, that's a long time to be dieting down.
> 
> Could it just be time to hang out here for awhile, before the next leg of the weight loss plan?  🤔


That is a thought I am having as well


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## snake (May 13, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> No the plan would be to go back up compete and maintain 198. I dont need to hit 180 exactly just want to drop as much fat as possible.
> 
> Meet lifts fell a little flat due to a torn hamstring 4 weeks out.
> Squat 275 plan was 405
> ...


Just confirm something for me because I have seen this before; even thought about it myself but experience told me better. You're not looking at some numbers in the 181 or 198s and say, I could do that!?

Sooner or later, as a lifter develops, their body settles into their weight class. The only time I feel it's ok to go down a weight class is to set a record. You were in the 242s and if you were close to weight then, dropping down two or three weight classes is going to suck up your strength big time. At 5'-10" and 180 lbs, you're going to feel like fuuk, lose some hard earned muscle mass, and have to work hard to get it back.

Big weight loss will also require more cardio, you just cant do it all with diet. Some cardio is better than others for lifters but your wheels and back will take a beating. That will cost you in your total and could even end in injury.

I know I'm off the topic of your original question but I don't what you to do something detrimental to your lifting. What is the end game to this after all? Just see how low you can go?


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## Btcowboy (May 13, 2022)

snake said:


> Just confirm something for me because I have seen this before; even thought about it myself but experience told me better. You're not looking at some numbers in the 181 or 198s and say, I could do that!?
> 
> Sooner or later, as a lifter develops, their body settles into their weight class. The only time I feel it's ok to go down a weight class is to set a record. You were in the 242s and if you were close to weight then, dropping down two or three weight classes is going to suck up your strength big time. At 5'-10" and 180 lbs, you're going to feel like fuuk, lose some hard earned muscle mass, and have to work hard to get it back.
> 
> ...


All good and appreciate all advice and other views. 

I am my best around 200 -210, was supposed to compete at 220 but started prep over that so went up a weight class. 

You are right maybe I am asking for too much. Last time I was sub 190 was about 4 5 yrs ago


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## Yano (May 13, 2022)

I dieted down for 2 years man 95lbs , keto , carnivore and just not eating. I got to a point where I could eat a salad , do an hour of cardio , walk 2 miles with the wife and just wasn't losing any weight it would just fluctuate up and down a few lbs.  I had to stop eat normal and gain a bit back for a while before I could lose more.


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## snake (May 13, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> All good and appreciate all advice and other views.
> 
> I am my best around 200 -210, was supposed to compete at 220 but started prep over that so went up a weight class.
> 
> You are right maybe I am asking for too much. Last time I was sub 190 was about 4 5 yrs ago


Ok then lets shoot for the 198's and put a dent in your numbers. All things being equal, the difference in total between the 198s and 220's is about 75 lbs but to be honest, you could improve on those numbers you have and still make the 198's.

As for your diet, your protein could be 40g lower. (Someone just shit themselves reading that). Your cardio should be enough as is. I'd say hold your course for now and see if you get over this plateau. If you don't see something in a few weeks, hit me up and we'll play some other cards.


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## Btcowboy (May 13, 2022)

snake said:


> Ok then lets shoot for the 198's and put a dent in your numbers. All things being equal, the difference in total between the 198s and 220's is about 75 lbs but to be honest, you could improve on those numbers you have and still make the 198's.
> 
> As for your diet, your protein could be 40g lower. (Someone just shit themselves reading that). Your cardio should be enough as is. I'd say hold your course for now and see if you get over this plateau. If you don't see something in a few weeks, hit me up and we'll play some other cards.


Much appreciated thank you


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## RiR0 (May 13, 2022)

snake said:


> Just confirm something for me because I have seen this before; even thought about it myself but experience told me better. You're not looking at some numbers in the 181 or 198s and say, I could do that!?
> 
> Sooner or later, as a lifter develops, their body settles into their weight class. The only time I feel it's ok to go down a weight class is to set a record. You were in the 242s and if you were close to weight then, dropping down two or three weight classes is going to suck up your strength big time. At 5'-10" and 180 lbs, you're going to feel like fuuk, lose some hard earned muscle mass, and have to work hard to get it back.
> 
> ...


Weight loss requires no cardio. 
Cardio is only a tool to further a deficit.


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## Charger69 (May 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Weight loss requires no cardio.
> Cardio is only a tool to further a deficit.



You are right to a point. What are you after for weight loss? Aerobic or anaerobic energy consumption will determine what is being utilized and change the body composition. Ie how are you going to genearate the ATP for energy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Caligrower (May 14, 2022)

How long you been at that weight? Could be stress, that a week at maintenance cals could help.


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## RiR0 (May 14, 2022)

Charger69 said:


> You are right to a point. What are you after for weight loss? Aerobic or anaerobic energy consumption will determine what is being utilized and change the body composition. Ie how are you going to genearate the ATP for energy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right to a point? Nope. It’s the law of thermodynamics. 
Energy consumed vs energy burned for weight loss.
Ever seen an anorexic or a picture of a Holocaust survivor?

Of course you’ll have to have proper protein intake and resistance training in order to preserve muscle. 
But that’s not what is being discussed. 
Somebody forgot to tell this guy you need to do cardio.


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## MrRogers (May 14, 2022)

Knowledge here is incredible.

Small point but weight might not be your best metric. I take measurements every 2 weeks and find that data more telling than the scale.


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

Caligrower said:


> How long you been at that weight? Could be stress, that a week at maintenance cals could help.


Up and down 5 weeks ago 212 then slow increase up to 216. Been cutting 6 months.


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

MrRogers said:


> Knowledge here is incredible.
> 
> Small point but weight might not be your best metric. I take measurements every 2 weeks and find that data more telling than the scale.


Agreed and I fucked up not getting starting measurements. I started measuring 2 weeks ago and little change in first week


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## RiR0 (May 14, 2022)

I just keep thinking that with the drugs you’re slowly recomping. 
I can’t be 100% positive but I’d wager if you kept going eventually you’d be leaner but at the same weight.


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

snake said:


> As for your diet, your protein could be 40g lower. (Someone just shit themselves reading that)


I shit reading that lol.... but will cut 31mg out, another 200 cals less  this next couple weeks drops me to 1943 daily cals and 216g protein


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## RiR0 (May 14, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> I shit reading that lol.... but will cut 31mg out, another 200 cals less  this next couple weeks drops me to 1943 daily cals and 216g protein


If your carbs are higher you really only need 1g per lb.


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I just keep thinking that with the drugs you’re slowly recomping.
> I can’t be 100% positive but I’d wager if you kept going eventually you’d be leaner but at the same weight.


This is what I am hoping. Its the upward movement of the scale thats concerning. I dont see it possible when in a deficit, and Inam fairly certain I am


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> If your carbs are higher you really only need 1g per lb.


160g carbs 49 fat and 216 prot right now with the change


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## snake (May 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> If your carbs are higher you really only need 1g per lb.


Absolutely, and thr reason for that is you don't want your body grabbing any protein for energy.

And I would say 1g of lean body mass. You put on 30 lbs of ugly fat, your body doesn't require 30 more grams of protein.


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## RiR0 (May 14, 2022)

snake said:


> Absolutely, and thr reason for that is you don't want your body grabbing any protein for energy.
> 
> And I would say 1g of lean body mass. You put on 30 lbs of ugly fat, your body doesn't require 30 more grams of protein.


That’s actually what Phil Hernon had me doing was 1g per lb of the estimated lean body mass.


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## snake (May 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> That’s actually what Phil Hernon had me doing was 1g per lb of the estimated lean body mass.


Well anyone that agrees with me is a smart man. Lol 

If you think about it, it makes sense but in that is the rub, most people do not think for themselves. 

Oh and I bet it's working for ya, right?


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## RiR0 (May 14, 2022)

snake said:


> Well anyone that agrees with me is a smart man. Lol
> 
> If you think about it, it makes sense but in that is the rub, most people do not think for themselves.
> 
> Oh and I bet it's working for ya, right?


It absolutely did. 
I will say I do notice better recovery with higher protein or amino acids though intake though. You probably remember Phil Hernon


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## RiR0 (May 14, 2022)

This is Phil Hernon rip


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

snake said:


> Absolutely, and thr reason for that is you don't want your body grabbing any protein for energy.
> 
> And I would say 1g of lean body mass. You put on 30 lbs of ugly fat, your body doesn't require 30 more grams of protein.


So should I increase carbs some?


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## snake (May 14, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> So should I increase carbs some?


No bank the deficit. It's not much but every little bit will help.

You don't drink anything other then protein that has cals right?


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

snake said:


> No bank the deficit. It's not much but every little bit will help.
> 
> You don't drink anything other then protein that has cals right?


G2 and Carbion but its counted


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## snake (May 14, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> G2 and Carbion but its counted


What's the cals? Doesn't G2 have a zero cal?


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

snake said:


> What's the cals? Doesn't G2 have a zero cal?


G2 45 cals, Carbion 100 cals


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## silentlemon1011 (May 14, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> G2 45 cals, Carbion 100 cals



One of my biggest in my nutrition was water only
I have one drink with added pottasium and sodium (Which tasted like ass)
Then the rest is straight water
Gave me the ability to add foods into my diet that taste good and keep me on the straight ans narrow


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## Btcowboy (May 14, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> One of my biggest in my nutrition was water only
> I have one drink with added pottasium and sodium (Which tasted like ass)
> Then the rest is straight water
> Gave me the ability to add foods into my diet that taste good and keep me on the straight ans narrow


Yeah, I drink a ton of water, coffee black. This is my intra and can do as water as opposed to G2


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## snake (May 14, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Yeah, I drink a ton of water, coffee black. This is my intra and can do as water as opposed to G2


Hit the black coffee for your pre and drop that stuff. We have now pealed 340 cals off your intake. Give it a few weeks and you should see the scale moving just a little by pretty much doing nothing.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 14, 2022)

snake said:


> Hit the black coffee for your pre and drop that stuff. We have now pealed 340 cals off your intake. Give it a few weeks and you should see the scale moving just a little by pretty much doing nothing.



This
My biggest downfall is coffee
I drink 1 cream 1 sugar
The unfortunate part is, i was drinking 9 of them
at 90 cals a piece
That was over 800 cals that swrved no purpose

Cut them out
Instantly cutting without hurting my micro and macro needs


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## Btcowboy (May 15, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> This
> My biggest downfall is coffee
> I drink 1 cream 1 sugar
> The unfortunate part is, i was drinking 9 of them
> ...


Yeah, I only drink black coffee. Have had drive through mix up my order take a sip and spit coffee with cream and sugar all over the windshield


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## Btcowboy (May 15, 2022)

snake said:


> Hit the black coffee for your pre and drop that stuff. We have now pealed 340 cals off your intake. Give it a few weeks and you should see the scale moving just a little by pretty much doing nothing.


Will do


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## CJ (May 15, 2022)

Yeah, I'm not changing my coffee. I'd rather be fat. 🤣


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## Btcowboy (May 20, 2022)

Weekly update

216.7

Scale did not move, not up nor down. 
Shoulders measured a little wider 
Chest and waist a little slimmer.
Of course its only my 3rd week measuring 

Total daily cals 1893
Carb 136
Fat 60
Prot 216

I am most days probably under this. Missed protein shake before bed, some of my proteins when weighed 1oz smaller than logged. 

Wednesday we had a wind storm and hydro lines down all over the place. Needless to say out all day with FD so ate what and when I could. Consisted protein and granola bars, muffins, gatorade, sandwiches. I tracked this day though and was about 2400 for the day. I was as careful as I could be but was an odd day to do it right. 

See what next week looks like. Would like to see the measurements continue to change, and maybe start going dowm on the scale.


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## Btcowboy (May 27, 2022)

Bodyweight finally a positive to report. 
Down 3lbs this last week to 213.8. Hoping the trend continues


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## Dex (May 27, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Weekly update
> 
> 216.7
> 
> ...


I can't eat that little. To hell with that. I'd rather do the cardio. My weekly average is:
carb-278g
fat-69g
protein-174g

So far, lost about 8% bf and 4" on waist (now 33.5") in 80 days.

*Edited to explain numbers: Been on healthy diet for 93 days, but wife and I didn't do measurements until day 15. Also didn't do much working out first month because I got Rhabdo after 2nd run (main reason I switched to CLIT). Some lifting began month 2 as well and I continue to increase that weekly.


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## Btcowboy (May 27, 2022)

Dex said:


> I can't eat that little. To hell with that. I'd rather do the cardio. My weekly average is:
> carb-278g
> fat-69g
> protein-174g
> ...


Yeah it sucks and have been doing some extra cardio as well. Once I get it consistently moving down, if it continues at 3lbs I will eat back some of the cals


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## RiR0 (May 27, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Yeah it sucks and have been doing some extra cardio as well. Once I get it consistently moving down, if it continues at 3lbs I will eat back some of the cals


Are you opposed to adding in something like ephedra, clen or t3


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## Dex (May 27, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Yeah it sucks and have been doing some extra cardio as well. Once I get it consistently moving down, if it continues at 3lbs I will eat back some of the cals


I looked at my journal. I log everything down to the gram. Calories burned during cardio is still guess work but I take 15% off of the total it tells me and seems to be working. BTW, looking back, my first 3 weeks I was 1800 calories and then upped it to 2100-2400. I try to be in a deficit of 800 and lose 1.5lbs per week. I weigh daily and average the week since the scale goes up and down daily and isn't perfect. 

Measurements are helping make sure fat is coming off with minimal muscle loss. I am at a 4pack now and can see 6 and some oblique with the right lighting. Probably another few weeks for the abs to come in (probably would have been sooner if I had been working them). Seeing the waist line go down and almost seeing a 6 pack helps motivate for sure. I'm lucky since I kept my old jeans from a couple decades ago. lol 

Dialing in the diet is not easy unless you have done it before. Everyone is different and has different requirements. Having my detailed journal will help for my next cut after bulking this winter. Remember, log everything and if you cheat log that too. I had 3 bad days out of 92 days of diet. Two were just too stressful and emotional and the last was this week when I got food poisoning. I didn't eat well but I still logged everything to know why my numbers weren't going to look good and how to recover. 

I'm sure you will reach your goal if you keep pushing forward. Good luck and don't give up!


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## Btcowboy (May 27, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Are you opposed to adding in something like ephedra, clen or t3


I was running ECA before the var and tren. I have DMAA, Albuterol and Caffeine ready to go as well.


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## Btcowboy (May 27, 2022)

Dex said:


> I looked at my journal. I log everything down to the gram. Calories burned during cardio is still guess work but I take 15% off of the total it tells me and seems to be working. BTW, looking back, my first 3 weeks I was 1800 calories and then upped it to 2100-2400. I try to be in a deficit of 800 and lose 1.5lbs per week. I weigh daily and average the week since the scale goes up and down daily and isn't perfect.
> 
> Measurements are helping make sure fat is coming off with minimal muscle loss. I am at a 4pack now and can see 6 and some oblique with the right lighting. Probably another few weeks for the abs to come in (probably would have been sooner if I had been working them). Seeing the waist line go down and almost seeing a 6 pack helps motivate for sure. I'm lucky since I kept my old jeans from a couple decades ago. lol
> 
> ...


Yeah I have done this before just never had the major stalls before. I have lost weight eating over 3kcals lol... Maybe just getting old, or my metabolism is slowing. 

Thanks for the words of encouragement, I know it will come lol.


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## Dex (May 27, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Are you opposed to adding in something like ephedra, clen or t3


I guess I always forget to add that I am taking amphetamines daily for ADHD, 20mg Adderall. I'm sure it is helping my progress a bit.


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## Btcowboy (Jun 3, 2022)

So maybe I have been cutting too long and my metabolism is in need of a reset? 3 weeks at 1900 cals, no loss week 1, 3lbs loss week 2 and no loss this week. 
Thinking adding a meal back in maybe a little more for the rest of my blast (4weeks) then get back to cutting


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## silentlemon1011 (Jun 3, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> So maybe I have been cutting too long and my metabolism is in need of a reset? 3 weeks at 1900 cals, no loss week 1, 3lbs loss week 2 and no loss this week.
> Thinking adding a meal back in maybe a little more for the rest of my blast (4weeks) then get back to cutting



When instary lagging, 
(I dont know the science behind it)
But i add carbs and add cardio to match the carb increase, just to be anle to throw more food at my body without back slipping.

Works to get me motivated again lol


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## Btcowboy (Jun 3, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> When instary lagging,
> (I dont know the science behind it)
> But i add carbs and add cardio to match the carb increase, just to be anle to throw more food at my body without back slipping.
> 
> Works to get me motivated again lol


I am beyond frustrated, wore out, defeated lol....I am not sure I can fot more cardio in anymore. I mean I can just gets to be too much. Been cutting for 6 months plus, lost 30lbs, maybe a 4 week or so break is in order. 

Thinking add back 300-350 cals a day per week for the next 4 plus weeks. Get back to maintenance for a bit. Drop 1 cardio session a day. 

Short of less food, more cardio, more drugs......


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## silentlemon1011 (Jun 3, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> I am beyond frustrated, wore out, defeated lol....I am not sure I can fot more cardio in anymore. I mean I can just gets to be too much. Been cutting for 6 months plus, lost 30lbs, maybe a 4 week or so break is in order.
> 
> Thinking add back 300-350 cals a day per week for the next 4 plus weeks. Get back to maintenance for a bit. Drop 1 cardio session a day.
> 
> Short of less food, more cardio, more drugs......



Taking a break is a good thing man.
Long term cuts fucking suck

I know what you used tonlooknlike lol

You have one of the CRAZIEST transformations ive ever seen.
Low and slow, tske a break and eat some cake lom


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## Btcowboy (Jun 3, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Taking a break is a good thing man.
> Long term cuts fucking suck
> 
> I know what you used tonlooknlike lol
> ...


Thanks and yeah lol


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## Butch_C (Jun 3, 2022)

I don't know your bf% or you at all, lol. But for me a hard cut with cardio works well for about 4 months then I have to stabilize for 4-6 weeks. Raise calories by 300 and cut back on cardio a little. Then get after it again.


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## Btcowboy (Jun 3, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> I don't know your bf% or you at all, lol. But for me a hard cut with cardio works well for about 4 months then I have to stabilize for 4-6 weeks. Raise calories by 300 and cut back on cardio a little. Then get after it again.


Higher BF never checked... Yeah I am done with it for now. Will reverse diet back up to maintenance cals and hold it for a couple weeks. Will finish blast in 4 weeks approximately as well. Even thinking drop my GH down from 6 to 4iu daily. Not noticing much of a difference and the save some costs


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

You said touve been cutting for 6 months, I take it you haven't been on your current cycle that long? Did the weight loss by chance slow down when Tren was started? Tren is notorious for its ability to gain size and strength even in a deficit. I didnt see it mentioned in any of the other posts and thought it might be worth mentioning. What were the measurements telling you?


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## lifter6973 (Jul 16, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> You said touve been cutting for 6 months, I take it you haven't been on your current cycle that long? Did the weight loss by chance slow down when Tren was started? Tren is notorious for its ability to gain size and strength even in a deficit. I didnt see it mentioned in any of the other posts and thought it might be worth mentioning. What were the measurements telling you?


STFU you ignorant maggot


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> STFU you ignorant maggot


/hugs


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> STFU you ignorant maggot


Whats up bitchtits how ya been? Ive missed you!


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## Btcowboy (Jul 16, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> You said touve been cutting for 6 months, I take it you haven't been on your current cycle that long? Did the weight loss by chance slow down when Tren was started? Tren is notorious for its ability to gain size and strength even in a deficit. I didnt see it mentioned in any of the other posts and thought it might be worth mentioning. What were the measurements telling you?


Measurements wer going up slowly so definitely a possibility. I upped calories, cut back on the cardio about 2 weeks before end of blast and the scale started moving again. Ended and cycle and even with the extra calories and less cardio the weight started coming off quicker. So quick infact, the last 3 weeks I have dropped about 10lbs, 5 in the last week. 203lbs as of yesterday am


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> You said touve been cutting for 6 months, I take it you haven't been on your current cycle that long? Did the weight loss by chance slow down when Tren was started? Tren is notorious for its ability to gain size and strength even in a deficit. I didnt see it mentioned in any of the other posts and thought it might be worth mentioning. What were the measurements telling you?


You don’t gain size in a deficit. Retard. How do you build something from nothing. 🤷‍♂️


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## Yano (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You don’t gain size in a deficit. Retard. How do you build something from nothing. 🤷‍♂️


I'm not arguing at all but I do have a question ... Cus i might of got something totally wrong with my training and dieting strategy.

If some one ,, we'll take ,, oh me ! cus im a big fat fuck. If some one is still 20lbs over weight ,, and im being generous with my leanness believe that ,,,

If some one has a surplus of calories ,,, isn't it possible for the body to draw from those stores to fuel itself and build mass ? all while eating in a deficit ?

I'm eating 1800 off days , 2000 on work out days. I cant say I have tons of energy but I'm still getting weight added to the bar slowly , not like while i was eating 3k but it is adding up ,, and even though its PL training , thats still going to build a small amount of mass right ? not just strength ?


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

Yano said:


> I'm not arguing at all but I do have a question ... Cus i might of got something totally wrong with my training and dieting strategy.
> 
> If some one ,, we'll take ,, oh me ! cus im a big fat fuck. If some one is still 20lbs over weight ,, and im being generous with my leanness believe that ,,,
> 
> ...


Yea. If you have calories stored for energy then it’s possible as long as you’re getting enough protein from your diet. It’s obviously not going to be overwhelming either. 

But to say the scale STOPS moving and you GAIN weight because “Tren packs on the muscle” is total bullshit. You can’t go from 200 lbs to 205 lbs on a deficit by simply running Tren. That’s retarded. Super retarded. A special kind of retarded. Thats the retarded that comes with not knowing anything and “mindless”-ly following what you read on forums and then parroting it because you want so desperately to be welcomed into the group. Yea, that kind of retarded. 

As for strength. Strength is muscle fiber recruitment and is tied more to the central nervous system so that’s different. It depends on a bunch of variables too. First being, are you truly making strength gains or are you gradually returning to a level of strength that you once had? The muscle memory thing. Also all strong androgens stimulate the central nervous system. The whole “fight or flight” thing.


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## Yano (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea. If you have calories stored for energy then it’s possible as long as you’re getting enough protein from your diet. It’s obviously not going to be overwhelming either.
> 
> But to say the scale STOPS moving and you GAIN weight because “Tren packs on the muscle” is total bullshit. You can’t go from 200 lbs to 205 lbs on a deficit by simply running Tren. That’s retarded. Super retarded. A special kind of retarded. Thats the retarded that comes with not knowing anything and “mindless”-ly following what you read on forums and then parroting it because you want so desperately to be welcomed into the group. Yea, that kind of retarded.
> 
> As for strength. Strength is muscle fiber recruitment and is tied more to the central nervous system so that’s different. It depends on a bunch of variables too. First being, are you truly making strength gains or are you gradually returning to a level of strength that you once had? The muscle memory thing. Also all strong androgens stimulate the central nervous system. The whole “fight or flight” thing.


Cool thanks man !! Yeah i didnt think you could just magically gain size just by adding the drugs ,, and pull shit from the air like osmosis lol that is fucking dumb 

I was just curious about having a surplus and using that to draw from along the way.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

Yano said:


> Cool thanks man !! Yeah i didnt think you could just magically gain size just by adding the drugs ,, and pull shit from the air like osmosis lol that is fucking dumb
> 
> I was just curious about having a surplus and using that to draw from along the way.


Yea. It’s the “recomp” cycle. I hate when people set out with the intention of that. It’s not the optimal way to use PEDs and guys more often than not spin their wheels. Not eating enough to build muscle but not in enough of a deficit to lose muscle. 

But for those of us that are blessed with a surplus…. 🤣


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You don’t gain size in a deficit. Retard. How do you build something from nothing. 🤷‍♂️


Good to hear from you as always BBBG.  This is for OP since you already all knowing /bow.

Tren is know for better protien synthesis and nitrogen retention (like many steroids, but more effective) basically your body is mote efficient at using calories. So that caloric deficit that you were in now has the possibility to be a caloric surplus. Obviously this is different from person to person and situation to situation.

Bibaldbeardgay; And thats how you get something from nothing......Retard.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> Good to hear from you as always BBBG.  This is for OP since you already all knowing /bow.
> 
> Tren is know for better protien synthesis and nitrogen retention (like many steroids, but more effective) basically your body is mote efficient at using calories. So that caloric deficit that you were in now has the possibility to be a caloric surplus. Obviously this is different from person to person and situation to situation.
> 
> Bibaldbeardgay; And thats how you get something from nothing......Retard.


Tren is NOT any better for protein synthesis than any other steroid. Jack ass. 

So Tren will take fat from your ass and magically form bigger delts and pecs? Just truly amazing. You’re really that retarded, huh? Is that why the cattle that go from feed lots to slaughter get bigger on the trip? Cause they do not. 

All you can do is make gay and queer jokes. That’s of real value. It’s great to have you here. Just parroting bullshit info from source-based forums.


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Tren is NOT any better for protein synthesis than any other steroid. Jack ass.
> 
> So Tren will take fat from your ass and magically form bigger delts and pecs? Just truly amazing. You’re really that retarded, huh? Is that why the cattle that go from feed lots to slaughter get bigger on the trip? Cause they do not.
> 
> All you can do is make gay and queer jokes. That’s of real value. It’s great to have you here. Just parroting bullshit info from source-based forums.


Which is in stark contrast to all the useful information you give? Now thats funny, you dont actually believe your own bullshit do you? Maybe if read more and jacked your jaw less you might just learn something.
Did i say anything about miraculously taking fat from the ass and turn it into muscle? The answer was No, in case you were struggling. I said that one of Trens effects  is to use calories more efficiently (still with me? Atta boy, I never doubted you) therefore its like the body is getting more calories than it really is. We can go back and forth on this, your not going to listen to anything I say, and ill never not think your a douche' bag so make your reply because you are the coolest and have to get the last word in.

I tried bringing up a valid point that someone else hadnt mentioned trying to help the OP and a couple of you guys  just couldnt handle it, so this on you guys, congratulations.


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Measurements wer going up slowly so definitely a possibility. I upped calories, cut back on the cardio about 2 weeks before end of blast and the scale started moving again. Ended and cycle and even with the extra calories and less cardio the weight started coming off quicker. So quick infact, the last 3 weeks I have dropped about 10lbs, 5 in the last week. 203lbs as of yesterday am


Congrats. glad to hear things are back on track. I thought that there was a possibility of the measurements telling a different tale than the scale with everything you were doing.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> Which is in stark contrast to all the useful information you give? Now thats funny, you dont actually believe your own bullshit do you? Maybe if read more and jacked your jaw less you might just learn something.
> Did i say anything about miraculously taking fat from the ass and turn it into muscle? The answer was No, in case you were struggling. I said that one of Trens effects  is to use calories more efficiently (still with me? Atta boy, I never doubted you) therefore its like the body is getting more calories than it really is. We can go back and forth on this, your not going to listen to anything I say, and ill never not think your a douche' bag so make your reply because you are the coolest and have to get the last word in.
> 
> I tried bringing up a valid point that someone else hadnt mentioned trying to help the OP and a couple of you guys  just couldnt handle it, so this on you guys, congratulations.


Ha. “Using calories more efficiently”. 

You mean “nutrient partitioning”? That’s a little more than “making it seem like you’re consuming more calories”. 

If you’re on a deficient to loose weight that means your body is already going to be using more calories than you consume. So where do your mythical “efficient calories” go/come from?

Nevermind that tren is not a great muscle builder. It works far better at preserving muscle - that’s what it was designed to do in the first place. 

You’re just beyond enamored with Tren that you are blind to what it does or doesn’t do. 

And I could give a fuck what you think about me. I’m not getting the last word in for you. It’s so some other guy doesn’t believe your bullshit. There’s enough newbs that don’t understand Tren and what it does/doesn’t do.


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Ha. “Using calories more efficiently”.
> 
> You mean “nutrient partitioning”? That’s a little more than “making it seem like you’re consuming more calories”.
> 
> ...


And your to in love with yourself and all of your infinite knowledge to listen to anyone else. You havent heard a word I said. 
OP gave very indepth info on what he was doing, calorie counts, cardio, ect. He also aknowleged that his measurements were making gains. You had no problem acknowledging he was in a deficit when he described what was going on and yet the measuring tape showed gains which is exactly what I brought up and mentioned that possibly something he was taking was helping that along. But because it was me it couldnt possibly be the case because im an idiot obviously. You know, having a small penis is nothing to be ashamed of, you shouldnt be so hard on yourself. Again no point in carrying on as it is going nowhere. Ill just agree that im an idiot and couldnt possibly bring anything useful and even if i did it will be dismissed and you and your band of ass monkeys can go ahead and shit post all my stuff. OP seems like a solid guy can probably make up his own mind as to whether or not the info pertained to his situation or not.


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## silentlemon1011 (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Tren is NOT any better for protein synthesis than any other steroid. Jack ass.
> 
> So Tren will take fat from your ass and magically form bigger delts and pecs? Just truly amazing. You’re really that retarded, huh? Is that why the cattle that go from feed lots to slaughter get bigger on the trip? Cause they do not.
> 
> All you can do is make gay and queer jokes. That’s of real value. It’s great to have you here. Just parroting bullshit info from source-based forums.




Thermodynamics are a bullshit lie i guess right?


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Thermodynamics are a bullshit lie i guess right?


Apparently I’m missing something. I dunno. 

I was HOPING that @Rambronco would explain the black magic process and alchemy but the best he can do is “it’s Tren”. Then he gets pissed off at me. So I guess I’m retarded. 🤷‍♂️ I don’t know. 

The muscle doesn’t come from fat on your ass, and the calories expended are greater than the calories consumed but *poof* more muscle. It’s a miracle.


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Thermodynamics are a bullshit lie i guess right?


The fuck are you talking about?


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## silentlemon1011 (Jul 16, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> And your to in love with yourself and all of your infinite knowledge to listen to anyone else. You havent heard a word I said.
> OP gave very indepth info on what he was doing, calorie counts, cardio, ect. He also aknowleged that his measurements were making gains. You had no problem acknowledging he was in a deficit when he described what was going on and yet the measuring tape showed gains which is exactly what I brought up and mentioned that possibly something he was taking was helping that along. But because it was me it couldnt possibly be the case because im an idiot obviously. You know, having a small penis is nothing to be ashamed of, you shouldnt be so hard on yourself. Again no point in carrying on as it is going nowhere. Ill just agree that im an idiot and couldnt possibly bring anything useful and even if i did it will be dismissed and you and your band of ass monkeys can go ahead and shit post all my stuff. OP seems like a solid guy can probably make up his own mind as to whether or not the info pertained to his situation or not.



You cant add mass in a deficit.
You can't
The laws of Thermodynamics dictate otherwise

What Tren CAN do is similar to what you're saying about nutrient partitioning.
It will greatly assist with holding onto muscle mass while in said deficit so that you dont lose much hard earned muscle.

That being said, the loss of mass during a deficit is actually blown a bit out of proportion, you dont lose as much as many think you do.

Ive actually come out of HARD cuts with a higher WILKS

So you're thought process is correct in how Tren works, but the minutia is off, Tren will assist greatly but cant nake something out of nothing


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## Rambronco (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Apparently I’m missing something. I dunno.
> 
> I was HOPING that @Rambronco would explain the black magic process and alchemy but the best he can do is “it’s Tren”. Then he gets pissed off at me. So I guess I’m retarded. 🤷‍♂️ I don’t know.
> 
> The muscle doesn’t come from fat on your ass, and the calories expended are greater than the calories consumed but *poof* more muscle. It’s a miracle.


Really muscle doesnt come from the fat on your ass? Your words not mine. Measurements and scale both said gaining.....information available suggested calorie deficit......You fucking figure it out. Tren is just another AAS not better not worse just different than the others with its own unique characteristics.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> Really muscle doesnt come from the fat on your ass? Your words not mine. Measurements and scale both said gaining.....information available suggested calorie deficit......You fucking figure it out. Tren is just another AAS not better not worse just different than the others with its own unique characteristics.


You still haven’t explained any special process. 

Of course it doesn’t come from the fat on your ass. That was illustrative. Where’s it come from? He’s in a deficit, calories in are less than calories out. Where’s the muscle come from?


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## silentlemon1011 (Jul 16, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You still haven’t explained any special process.
> 
> Of course it doesn’t come from the fat on your ass. That was illustrative. Where’s it come from? He’s in a deficit, calories in are less than calories out. Where’s the muscle come from?



Im having a hard time right now

This is exceedingly frustrating


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## CJ (Jul 17, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> So that caloric deficit that you were in now has the possibility to be a caloric surplus.


No it doesn't. Where is this extra energy magically appearing from? Physics dammit!!!!


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## lifter6973 (Jul 17, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> Really muscle doesnt come from the fat on your ass? Your words not mine. Measurements and scale both said gaining.....information available suggested calorie deficit......You fucking figure it out. Tren is just another AAS not better not worse just different than the others with its own unique characteristics.


What is your major malfunction dipshit? My god you are fucking stupid.
Here is a clue- something isn't adding up because what you are trying to claim simply isn't possible. Maybe you are missing information but don't be such a dumb fuck and claim tren adds mass in a deficit.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 17, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Measurements wer going up slowly so definitely a possibility. I upped calories, cut back on the cardio about 2 weeks before end of blast and the scale started moving again. Ended and cycle and even with the extra calories and less cardio the weight started coming off quicker. So quick infact, the last 3 weeks I have dropped about 10lbs, 5 in the last week. 203lbs as of yesterday am


Now that Rambronctard is gone again, probably for another month before he pops in to derail with bullshit. You can still gain strength in a deficit, especially on androgens. Strength is the recruitment of existing muscle fibers and is a CNS response. You know this from powerlifting already. Androgens hit the CNS and as you go week to week with your training, you can still gain strength during a hard cut as more and more existing muscle fibers are recruited to work at the same time. 

So strength can progress, but adding mass doesn’t occur. The only way you add mass is by adding calories. As amazing as Tren is, it won’t ever be able to create something from nothing.


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## silentlemon1011 (Jul 17, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Now that Rambronctard is gone again, probably for another month before he pops in to derail with bullshit. You can still gain strength in a deficit, especially on androgens. Strength is the recruitment of existing muscle fibers and is a CNS response. You know this from powerlifting already. Androgens hit the CNS and as you go week to week with your training, you can still gain strength during a hard cut as more and more existing muscle fibers are recruited to work at the same time.
> 
> So strength can progress, but adding mass doesn’t occur. The only way you add mass is by adding calories. As amazing as Tren is, it won’t ever be able to create something from nothing.



That being said, ive never managed it.
Sure, like i said before, ive managed to increase my WILKS in a deficit, but thats just because im lightet and maintained most of my strength.

Im very envious of guys that can out weight on the bar in a deficit.


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## Stickler (Jul 17, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> But to say the scale STOPS moving and you GAIN weight because “Tren packs on the muscle” is total bullshit. You can’t go from 200 lbs to 205 lbs on a deficit by simply running Tren. That’s retarded. Super retarded. A special kind of retarded. Thats the retarded that comes with not knowing anything and “mindless”-ly following what you read on forums and then parroting it because you want so desperately to be welcomed into the group. Yea, that kind of retarded.


And I nominate YOU to be the next Jerry's kid or Special Olympic's ambassador my fine sir. 

Shit cracks me up.. Can't help it, but it just does.


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## Rambronco (Jul 17, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> You cant add mass in a deficit.
> You can't
> The laws of Thermodynamics dictate otherwise
> 
> ...





lifter6973 said:


> What is your major malfunction dipshit? My god you are fucking stupid.
> Here is a clue- something isn't adding up because what you are trying to claim simply isn't possible. Maybe you are missing information but don't be such a dumb fuck and claim tren adds mass in a deficit.


Of everyone on here I enjoy fucking with you the most, probably because its so fucking easy. Now go WAIST some more time on me.


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## silentlemon1011 (Jul 17, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> Of everyone on here I enjoy fucking with you the most, probably because its so fucking easy. Now go WAIST some more time on me.



Me or @lifter6973 
Ive never seen you before, so i cant see how you could have enjoyed fucking with me previously


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## Rambronco (Jul 17, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Me or @lifter6973
> Ive never seen you before, so i cant see how you could have enjoyed fucking with me previously


Lifter sorry didnt see you were quoted in there too.


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## Rambronco (Jul 17, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Me or @lifter6973
> Ive never seen you before, so i cant see how you could have enjoyed fucking with me previously


Lifter doesnt know it yet but we're gonna be hanging out on the weekends......gonna be great!


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 17, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> Of everyone on here I enjoy fucking with you the most, probably because its so fucking easy. Now go WAIST some more time on me.


You just troll then. That’s great.


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## lifter6973 (Jul 17, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Now that Rambronctard is gone again, probably for another month before he pops in to derail with bullshit. You can still gain strength in a deficit, especially on androgens. Strength is the recruitment of existing muscle fibers and is a CNS response. You know this from powerlifting already. Androgens hit the CNS and as you go week to week with your training, you can still gain strength during a hard cut as more and more existing muscle fibers are recruited to work at the same time.
> 
> So strength can progress, but adding mass doesn’t occur. The only way you add mass is by adding calories. As amazing as Tren is, it won’t ever be able to create something from nothing.


Good assessment. Word.


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## lifter6973 (Jul 17, 2022)

Rambronco said:


> Lifter sorry didnt see you were quoted in there too.


Of course you didn't you dumb fuck.


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## Btcowboy (Jul 17, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Now that Rambronctard is gone again, probably for another month before he pops in to derail with bullshit. You can still gain strength in a deficit, especially on androgens. Strength is the recruitment of existing muscle fibers and is a CNS response. You know this from powerlifting already. Androgens hit the CNS and as you go week to week with your training, you can still gain strength during a hard cut as more and more existing muscle fibers are recruited to work at the same time.
> 
> So strength can progress, but adding mass doesn’t occur. The only way you add mass is by adding calories. As amazing as Tren is, it won’t ever be able to create something from nothing.


Get it never suggested adding mass, was just noting observation that my of all my measurements all went down, shoulders did go up  just under 0.5 but that can also be due to measuring a slightly different location. Strength hung in there and is still hanging in but slight dip, off tren 3 weeks now.


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## TODAY (Jul 17, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Now that Rambronctard is gone again, probably for another month before he pops in to derail with bullshit. You can still gain strength in a deficit, especially on androgens. Strength is the recruitment of existing muscle fibers and is a CNS response. You know this from powerlifting already. Androgens hit the CNS and as you go week to week with your training, you can still gain strength during a hard cut as more and more existing muscle fibers are recruited to work at the same time.
> 
> So strength can progress, but adding mass doesn’t occur. The only way you add mass is by adding calories. As amazing as Tren is, it won’t ever be able to create something from nothing.


Just because you aren't attuned to the life-giving vibrations of Gaia does not mean that others haven't or can't.

Maybe if you learned how to use your taint as a mana-gathering solar panel instead of saying mean things on the internet you'd be able to gain mass in a caloric deficit like us more enlightened beings.


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## TODAY (Jul 17, 2022)

Please refer to this scholarly document for irrefutable evidence:









						‘Breatharian’ couple survives on ‘the universe’s energy’ instead of food
					

A “Breatharian” mom and dad of two have barely eaten for nine years as they live off “the universe’s energy.” Husband and wife Akahi Ricardo and Camila Castello believe that food …




					nypost.com


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