# Please help - experienced Steroid users needed



## Hevec (Oct 22, 2016)

Hi, I'm wondering if experienced users could help me. I'm fairly new to steroids, first used them a couple years back. I train for strength, no regard to weight so mass and strength is the aim. I got to a point most would regard as very strong naturally, trained for around 12 years before taking steroids. 

I took the advice of someone more experienced and took T400, just 100ml per week in one injection. For the first couple of weeks I gained more muscle than expected but then I starting getting itchy nipples/gyno. I started taking nolvadex as soon as nipples started itching but it didn't stop it, so took arimidex and still wasn't doing anything, had to take high dose to calm it down but I noticed I wasn't gaining any muscle anymore. Controlling the estrogen seemed to lessen the results of the cycle massively. I still did the rest of the cycle but found I was even stronger when I came off. I had gone backwards rather than got stronger/bigger.

I tried again a number of months after pct but taking nolvadex from the off and got almost the same result so I stopped the cycle and gave up on steroids. After a year I found out masteron could possibly work to prevent gyno/estrogen side effects so I again tried a cycle of T400 but this time with masteron 100 at 300mg a week. This resulted in huge progress in both strength and mass, so much so that I had enough after 8-9 weeks due to fear of injury from excessive strength increase.

I thought I had cracked it but now when I try this cycle again I get great results until gyno comes on again, the masteron doesn't work any more. I take arimidex etc and I get little to no gains in strength or mass. It's the same exact brand I'm taking, have even tried alternatives with the same results. Tried caber to see if was prolactin gyno and it isn't.

I'm hoping somebody can explain what's happening and how I get around the estrogen/gyno side effects. Have had to take letro twice to clear it but I want to get results in training. What steroids could I take to increase strength and mass without getting these side effects? (keeping sex drive good too if possible)

Thank you very much for any help, I'm no scientist with this stuff so not sure why or how this is happening even at low dose.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 22, 2016)

How much nolva and adex and how often did you take it?

Also what brand of nolva and adex?


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## Hevec (Oct 22, 2016)

They are 100% legit, it's not fake brand or underdosed, and have taken normal doses to very high doses. It isn't an issue of duff stuff or me taking it wrong.


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## Jaydub (Oct 22, 2016)

Hevec said:


> They are 100% legit, it's not fake brand or underdosed, and have taken normal doses to very high doses. It isn't an issue of duff stuff or me taking it wrong.


Then what's it an issue of?...


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 23, 2016)

Hevec said:


> They are 100% legit, it's not fake brand or underdosed, and have taken normal doses to very high doses. It isn't an issue of duff stuff or me taking it wrong.



Why didn't you answer my questions? If you don't want to walk thru this issue then **** off and get bloodwork and figure it out on your own. Damn how rude of you...


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## Hevec (Oct 23, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Why didn't you answer my questions? If you don't want to walk thru this issue then **** off and get bloodwork and figure it out on your own. Damn how rude of you...


Sorry that wasn't meant in a rude way by any means, was just that I know it's not an issue of brand or dosage. That is stuff I can understand so would just change the brand or dose and sort it but adex british dragon 0.5mg every 3 days to as much as 2mg a day. Nolvadex recon chem 20-60mg a day depending. When gyno starts coming on it takes a lot to stop it 1mg+ a day but progress goes too. If I lower the dose of test to 350mg and take 20-30mg nolvadex I can get about a month in to the cycle without issues but they still happen. I can't afford blood work.


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## Hevec (Oct 23, 2016)

I have no idea, it's very confusing to me


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## Lilo (Oct 23, 2016)

Can't afford bloodwork --> can't afford cycling.


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## Hevec (Oct 23, 2016)

I'd rather not give up on my goals and do the cycling without the blood work than give up on them


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 23, 2016)

Hevec said:


> Sorry that wasn't meant in a rude way by any means, was just that I know it's not an issue of brand or dosage. That is stuff I can understand so would just change the brand or dose and sort it but adex british dragon 0.5mg every 3 days to as much as 2mg a day. Nolvadex recon chem 20-60mg a day depending. When gyno starts coming on it takes a lot to stop it 1mg+ a day but progress goes too. If I lower the dose of test to 350mg and take 20-30mg nolvadex I can get about a month in to the cycle without issues but they still happen. I can't afford blood work.



British dragon is not a reputable brand.  And at 2mg per day of adex you wouldn't have e2 sides your dick would be as limp as cooked spaghetti and your joints would be hurting so bad you couldn't get out of bed.  Your adex was bunk brother.

Bloodwork is not expensive either.  A female hormone panel thru private MD labs is less than a hundred bucks.  Bloodwork is extremely important when cycling...


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 23, 2016)

Hevec said:


> I'd rather not give up on my goals and do the cycling without the blood work than give up on them



But the bloodwork is key to you being able to cycle in this case isn't it?  It's the only way to know wtf is going on here. Is it e2 sides or something else? Is the Adex real or not? At 2mg per day your e2 should test at practically 0.  Which is terrible. At 2mg per day and e2 at 135 would you still insist it's not the brand?


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## DF (Oct 23, 2016)

Stopped reading after "100ml Per week in one injection"


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## tunafisherman (Oct 23, 2016)

Listen to POB...


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## ToolSteel (Oct 23, 2016)

DF said:


> Stopped reading after "100ml Per week in one injection"


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## Hevec (Oct 23, 2016)

DF said:


> Stopped reading after "100ml Per week in one injection"


Why? It was 400mg test a week, don't understand


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## Hevec (Oct 23, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> British dragon is not a reputable brand.  And at 2mg per day of adex you wouldn't have e2 sides your dick would be as limp as cooked spaghetti and your joints would be hurting so bad you couldn't get out of bed.  Your adex was bunk brother.
> 
> Bloodwork is not expensive either.  A female hormone panel thru private MD labs is less than a hundred bucks.  Bloodwork is extremely important when cycling...


In that case I apologise. I'll look into the blood work, only ones I've came across so far are extremely expensive.


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## Shane1974 (Oct 23, 2016)

When I am running anywhere from 500 - 750 mg Test only, .5 mg test twice a week is plenty. When I am running Dbol, however, I need .5 mg EOD. Some are more prone to gyno than others...do you have a lot of body fat? More body fat means better conversion from test to estro.


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## Hevec (Oct 23, 2016)

Shane1974 said:


> When I am running anywhere from 500 - 750 mg Test only, .5 mg test twice a week is plenty. When I am running Dbol, however, I need .5 mg EOD. Some are more prone to gyno than others...do you have a lot of body fat? More body fat means better conversion from test to estro.


No, normal kind of bodyfat levels, when I first took test I had low bodyfat levels. Definitely very prone to it. I'm thinking possibly of taking primo and tbol for next cycle without test and seeing if I can get some results from that with them not converting to estrogen. It seems when my estrogen goes up the results stop.


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## Popeye (Oct 24, 2016)

What do you not understand?!?

You had SHIT adex.

Get some RX AI and you can run whatever your little heart desires....open your fukin ears


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## bronco (Oct 24, 2016)

Hevec said:


> Why? It was 400mg test a week, don't understand



Wrong... You think it was 400mg per ml


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## Hevec (Oct 24, 2016)

Popeye said:


> What do you not understand?!?
> 
> You had SHIT adex.
> 
> Get some RX AI and you can run whatever your little heart desires....open your fukin ears


I don't have a little heart. The adex may have been well underdosed but still took a lot regardless and nolvadex seems to have the same effect. My estrogen/gyno symptoms go down but so does my progress in the gym.


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## Hevec (Oct 24, 2016)

bronco said:


> Wrong... You think it was 400mg per ml


If not then it sent my estrogen through the roof at less than this.


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## irish diesel (Oct 28, 2016)

ya i would like to know the samething


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## Cobra Strike (Oct 29, 2016)

Enjoy running your next cycle without test lol

You cant run a cycle by selecting products that do not aromatize smh

Your adex was shit and anti estrogens do not hault gains

dam noob asks for experienced help then fights it tooth and nail


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## GuerillaKilla (Oct 29, 2016)

Noob policy is to ask a question and then argue or ignore until they get the answer they were looking for. 

I am going to start a thread called "Noobs-Please direct all repetitive and irritating Bro-Sciencey questions in PM form to member @Cobrastrike."

Mods please sticky.


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## Seeker (Oct 29, 2016)

Unfortunately what I see is what we see every  day not just here at UG but what we probably see around us everyday in the gym. People jumping into this too soon without seriously taking the time to research, research, learn, and then research some more. To the op I really feel you came here desperately seeking help. I see it in your words. Sometimes our patience around Here just gets too thin because we have to deal with  this day in and day out. Sir, I recommend you just take a step back, go get some blood work And ask yourself is this all really worth it to you? If it is, continue to come here and stop questioning the advice of the people you are asking it from. We ARE here to help you. We will help you. 

Seek


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## GuerillaKilla (Oct 29, 2016)

Correction:


"Noobs--Please direct all incessant and irritating Bro-Sciency questions in PM form to member @Seeker."


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## Seeker (Oct 29, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Correction:
> 
> 
> "Noobs--Please direct all incessant and irritating Bro-Sciency questions in PM form to member @Seeker."



Haha I'm gonna text you some pleasantries.


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## Cobra Strike (Oct 29, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Noob policy is to ask a question and then argue or ignore until they get the answer they were looking for.
> 
> I am going to start a thread called "Noobs-Please direct all repetitive and irritating Bro-Sciencey questions in PM form to member @Cobrastrike."
> 
> Mods please sticky.



You fkr lol



GuerillaKilla said:


> Correction:
> 
> 
> "Noobs--Please direct all incessant and irritating Bro-Sciency questions in PM form to member @Seeker."



^^^this


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## who_gives_a_shit (Nov 2, 2016)

do you use a turkey baster to pin 100ml? or a shotgun


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## tunafisherman (Nov 2, 2016)

"Guys, I need help!!!!!"  Then proceeds to ignore any help given.  Offers up another cycle, ignores the post about it not having test.  

Would you like to ignore any other recommendations?  If you simply listened to the people here you would have all the answers to all your questions.


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## TrickWilliams (Nov 2, 2016)

tunafisherman said:


> "Guys, I need help!!!!!"  Then proceeds to ignore any help given.  Offers up another cycle, ignores the post about it not having test.
> 
> Would you like to ignore any other recommendations?  If you simply listened to the people here you would have all the answers to all your questions.



But Tuna, None of the answers are what the OP wants to hear! Selective hearing...Selective reading/comprehending? Is that a thing?


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