# Caffeine: you’re doing it wrong



## Jin (Nov 7, 2018)

Bottom line: dosing is a lot higher than you’d expect for maximal results. 

Low: 3mg/kg body weight
Moderate: 6mg/kg
High: 9mg/kg

Most studies show a moderate dose to be most effective with a high dose being no more effective. 

I’m 120kg and 6mg/kg yields a dose of 720mg of caffeine. I’ve been using 600 pre workout with good results and little to no side effects. 

“Thats crazy” you say. “My pre workout only has 140mg of caffeine per serving and it makes me feel like I’m on crack!”

News flash: it’s not the caffeine in pre workouts that’s primarily responsible for the jittery feeling you may get. Usually this is the results of some sort of “propriety blend” which contains God knows what. 

It’s my option that a 6mg/kilo dose of caffeine is much safer for you than taking untested ingredients in pre workouts. 

Caffeine is dirt cheap too. Even my dose of 600mg costs less than .25 per serving. 

For those of you who drink coffee: the data show caffeine from coffee to be inferior to anhydrous caffeine. 

Try it at 6mg/kg and see what you think. 

Main article (study groups were mostly endurance athletes)
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-7-5

Another paper showing caffeine’s effectiveness in powerlifting/1RM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5839013/

I probably haven’t done this subject justice so my guess is Zilla will either come by with clarifications or maybe even do a proper write up.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 7, 2018)

This ignores some of the other factors, such as what happens when 600mg of caffeine wears off. Or what happens when you take that much caffeine in at 6pm to hit the gym and now you can't sleep till 3am.


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## Jin (Nov 7, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> This ignores some of the other factors, such as what happens when 600mg of caffeine wears off. Or what happens when you take that much caffeine in at 6pm to hit the gym and now you can't sleep till 3am.



I was mainly suggesting caffeine as an alternative to pre workouts. Your two factors apply to both situations.

Personally I wouldn’t take pre work out or my full dose of caffeine after 3-4pm. If I workout in the evening it’s 300mg caffeine And I can still sleep fine. 

As for 600mg in the morning? The half life means that some caffeine stays in my body until at least early to mid afternoon. Then it’s time for a cup of coffee. 

And since when have we cared about consequences? So long as we can eek out 3% more on our 1RM, who GAS about sleep?


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## Gibsonator (Nov 7, 2018)

It's the Jekyll that's around 140, Hyde is closer to 500 i believe. But i do get what ur sayin. Where is  good place to buy the caffiene solo?


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## Straight30weight (Nov 7, 2018)

Gibsonator said:


> It's the Jekyll that's around 140, Hyde is closer to 500 i believe. But i do get what ur sayin. Where is  good place to buy the caffiene solo?


Any grocery store/gas station/pharmacy. No Doz or some shit like that.

Preworkout barely effects me. They're nothing like they used to be, I miss the old days....


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## Jin (Nov 7, 2018)

Gibsonator said:


> It's the Jekyll that's around 140, Hyde is closer to 500 i believe. But i do get what ur sayin. Where is  good place to buy the caffiene solo?



I get mine from iHerb because free delivery to Asia. You can gen get them On Amazon too. 100, 200mg pills for under $8. Possibly less than that.


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## Viduus (Nov 7, 2018)

“Caffeine” doesn’t give me the same boost “DeathKiller”,”hypeXplode”,”VeinBurster” does. Science says 2/3s of the effectiveness comes from the branding. (I read it on the box)

(I use caffeine pills for a boost if I need it these days. Left over from EC experiments and simple like you said)


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## Seeker (Nov 7, 2018)

never could understand the whole pre work craze. Just shut up and lift!  never took a pre workout in all my years of lifting.  My love of the weights was always enough hype for me.


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## Iron1 (Nov 7, 2018)

It's worth noting that caffeine doesn't actually give you any more energy than you already have. All it does is block the signals that tell you you're tired. That's all well and good but you're effectively burning the candle at both ends. Make sure your sleep is sufficient and take some time off of caffeine every once in a while.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 7, 2018)

Seeker said:


> never could understand the whole pre work craze. Just shut up and lift!  never took a pre workout in all my years of lifting.  My love of the weights was always enough hype for me.


Honestly I wish I never did either. Years ago, they made you feel invincible. Today, it's garbage.


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## Jin (Nov 7, 2018)

Seeker said:


> never could understand the whole pre work craze. Just shut up and lift!  never took a pre workout in all my years of lifting.  My love of the weights was always enough hype for me.



Caffeine is a performance enhancing drug. You took steroids to enhance performance, so why not other things?

not trying to pick a fight but I think it’s a fair question to ask.


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## Seeker (Nov 7, 2018)

Jin said:


> Caffeine is a performance enhancing drug. You took steroids to enhance performance, so why not other things?
> 
> not trying to pick a fight but I think it’s a fair question to ask.



my answer is  I never needed a stimulant to enhance my hype at the gym. i was always excited come gym time. You're comparing two different things. I would drink Gatorade during training but it wasn't for a stimulant effect. I'm not knocking people who take pre workouts, I just never had an interest or a need for it.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 7, 2018)

Iron1 said:


> It's worth noting that caffeine doesn't actually give you any more energy than you already have. All it does is block the signals that tell you you're tired. That's all well and good but you're effectively burning the candle at both ends. Make sure your sleep is sufficient and take some time off of caffeine every once in a while.



Don't overlook this post you guys. Ron makes one of the better points here because he is addressing how caffeine actually works. Caffeine just antagonizes the adenosine receptor. So it doesn't give you energy per se, but rather prevents you from becoming tired.


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## Jin (Nov 7, 2018)

Seeker said:


> my answer is  I never needed a stimulant to enhance my hype at the gym. i was always excited come gym time. You're comparing two different things. I would drink Gatorade during training but it wasn't for a stimulant effect. I'm not knocking people who take pre workouts, I just never had an interest or a need for it.



Gotcha.

10char


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## snake (Nov 7, 2018)

Seeker said:


> never could understand the whole pre work craze. Just shut up and lift!  never took a pre workout in all my years of lifting.  My love of the weights was always enough hype for me.



I'm with you on this Seek. Maybe we're just ol' school but give my 20-24 oz mug of coffee before the gym and I'm good.



Jin said:


> Caffeine is a performance enhancing drug. You took steroids to enhance performance, so why not other things?
> 
> not trying to pick a fight but I think it’s a fair question to ask.



I doubt caffeine is in the same room as AAS. Now I know you were not implying that but you know they are worlds apart buddy. Personally, I think there's a psychological effect to a big cup of coffee; it's signals the commencement of my workout.


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## Elivo (Nov 9, 2018)

I wish caffeine kept me from getting tired. Crap doesn’t have a noticeable effect on me.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 9, 2018)

Elivo said:


> I wish caffeine kept me from getting tired. Crap doesn’t have a noticeable effect on me.


Me neither, other than I'm clearly addicted to it as if I go long without I get incredible headaches.


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## NbleSavage (Nov 9, 2018)

Viduus said:


> “Caffeine” doesn’t give me the same boost “DeathKiller”,”hypeXplode”,”VeinBurster” does. Science says 2/3s of the effectiveness comes from the branding. (I read it on the box)
> 
> (I use caffeine pills for a boost if I need it these days. Left over from EC experiments and simple like you said)



I too am always on the market for a better placebo.


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## gymrat827 (Nov 9, 2018)

Elivo said:


> I wish caffeine kept me from getting tired. Crap doesn’t have a noticeable effect on me.



take a 4wk break and let your adrenal glands get a rest

200 mg will have a big effect than.  


I buy 200, 200 mg caffeine pills from walmart and take 1/4 serving of a pre workout and half of a 200mg pill.  Does me good.


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## Trump (Nov 10, 2018)

Double espresso left to go cold and mixed with my morning chocolate protein shake Is all the caffeine I need


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## Camoninja (Jan 6, 2019)

1 - 4 scoops of Mr Hyde tends to give me enough energy to hit the gym for a while. I'm gonna have to look into caffeine pills as a replacement though.


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## BlueStreak (May 12, 2019)

Caffeine has been consumed for hundreds of years and has health benefits it could be viewed as a non-essential nutrient. Its effect as a stimulant, if used correctly is useful to fuel intense workouts.


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## Gibsonator (May 12, 2019)

Camoninja said:


> 1 - 4 scoops of Mr Hyde tends to give me enough energy to hit the gym for a while. I'm gonna have to look into caffeine pills as a replacement though.



there's 420mg in 1 scoop of Hyde, so 1680mg/4 scoops... are you insane???


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## Trump (May 12, 2019)

My prework our I use when I am ****ed at work to get me through a workout is 300mg caffeine and I feel like it was cooked by Walter white it’s that insane 



Gibsonator said:


> there's 420mg in 1 scoop of Hyde, so 1680mg/4 scoops... are you insane???


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## TODAY (Jun 22, 2019)

Also worth noting that most of the unwanted side-effects that people experience on relatively high doses of caffeine can be offset by L-theanine.


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## Tiny (Jun 24, 2019)

Trump said:


> Double espresso left to go cold and mixed with my morning chocolate protein shake Is all the caffeine I need




Wondering why I never thought to do this


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## Trump (Jun 24, 2019)

Because your american



Tiny said:


> Wondering why I never thought to do this


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## Straight30weight (Jun 24, 2019)

Coffee is disgusting unless you dump it directly into your ass.


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## Trump (Jun 24, 2019)

What a pointless statement everything is good when inserted into the ass



Straight30weight said:


> Coffee is disgusting unless you dump it directly into your ass.


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## Straight30weight (Jun 24, 2019)

Trump said:


> What a pointless statement everything is good when inserted into the ass


You are wise beyond your years


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## TODAY (Jun 24, 2019)

Straight30weight said:


> You are wise beyond your years


He's spent years bathing his root chakra in fine liniments and starbucks


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## MarvelousChester (Jun 25, 2019)

Not sure if you guys are still interested in the original topic, but a cool article came out today in strongerbyscience and it's about caffeine. (strongerbyscience com/caffeine/?__s=ro7sm7ftkbm6znccvhyi)

It probably has more than anyone needs to know, but just in case.

Sorry for the links, I don't have enough posts to share whole URLs.


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## gunslinger357 (Aug 24, 2019)

I wouldn't **** with high-dose caffeine, unless you want to have a heart-attack early.  I've been in construction and seen YOUNG guys have heart-attacks from Redbull.  ****ing no.  Nowadays I won't even do Bang or Rockstar, I've gotten heart weirdness on both of those while at work or the gym.


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