# Supplements for lowering hematocrit?



## dk8594 (Mar 1, 2018)

I think we're all aware that blood donation can be used to manage hematocrit, but I'm curious  if anyone has had any experience using supplements to lower it (i.e via grape fruit or something else)


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## Spongy (Mar 1, 2018)

a whole bag of dicks, every day.


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## Spongy (Mar 1, 2018)

but honestly, no.  Just regular blood donations


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## notsoswoleCPA (Mar 1, 2018)

Either eating grapefruit daily or taking grapefruit seed extract has been touted to lower hematocrit on another forum.  

I've been rather lucky being on TRT since April 28, 2017.  My hematocrit peaked at 48.6 in November 2017, and my last labs in February 2018 had it at 45.7.  I haven't eaten grapefruit since December, lol.  

Another thing that may help is hydration.  I was the most hydrated ever for this last set of labs per instructions from my doctor's office.  They wanted me to drink at least a gallon of water the day before my blood work and to be well hydrated prior to getting it drawn.  As a result, I had a quart of water prior to having my blood drawn that morning, as well as drinking 1.5 gallons the day before.

EDIT:  I have yet to donate blood!


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## dk8594 (Mar 1, 2018)

Spongy said:


> a whole bag of dicks, every day.



Oh.....it's a WHOLE bag?  I've been telling everyone it's just a half.


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## Iron1 (Mar 1, 2018)

Spongy said:


> but honestly, no.  Just regular blood donations



I was thinking about this the other day as I too donate regularly to combat a high-normal crit.

If hematocrit is just a ratio of red cells to the rest of your blood, wouldn't you have to do a "double red cell" donation in order to lower crit? Wouldn't a regular "whole blood" donation just lower your overall blood volume but do nothing to change the ratio itself?


Like a pitcher of sweet tea that's too sweet, just pouring some out won't change how sweet the rest of it is. 

Has anyone done before and after bloods, testing specifically for changes in crit?


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## motown1002 (Mar 1, 2018)

Iron, 

Those are my thoughts exactly.  My crit was very high a few years ago and I got a script to get rid of blood once a week.  Hardly moved the level.  I think the idea is, what ever the cause of the high crit level, once its gone blood levels will level out.....maybe..,..  lol


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## dk8594 (Mar 1, 2018)

Wasn't a big study, but......


"Our findings raise concerns about the persistent risk of vascular events in these donors, particularly when coupled with the misperception by patients and health care providers that donation has reduced or eliminated the risks of TRT-induced polycythemia."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28150363


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 1, 2018)

Iron1 said:


> I was thinking about this the other day as I too donate regularly to combat a high-normal crit.
> If hematocrit is just a ratio of red cells to the rest of your blood, wouldn't you have to do a "double red cell" donation in order to lower crit? Wouldn't a regular "whole blood" donation just lower your overall blood volume but do nothing to change the ratio itself?
> Like a pitcher of sweet tea that's too sweet, just pouring some out won't change how sweet the rest of it is.
> Has anyone done before and after bloods, testing specifically for changes in crit?


You may be interested in this thread. Jol's response on page 3 is worth highlighting - the main goal is to reduce blood viscosity in general. Targeting RBCs just tends to be the main way of doing it - hence the focus on HCT. 

Coincidentally, this topic came up a few days ago with my endo & the family (both my parents are endos too). 
The latest data shows that regular donations may not be effective for TRT folks who are sensitive to these blood count side effects (they have issues even when T is in the normal range). The majority opinion, including mine, was that for these patients you need to lower the dose regardless of whether or not it's in the normal range to begin with. 
Most folks here are not going to be lowering the dose - TRT, cycling or otherwise. So, before the "why bother donating if it doesn't do much" crowd pop up, a transient benefit from donating is better than sitting on your ass and doing nothing, which is the alternative.


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## Bullseye Forever (Mar 1, 2018)

Well I’m headed to a Hemotologist today to see what I’ve got to do to Lower my hemoctit levels,mine are a tad high to donate,min is running 53.5....and I’m not even doing a cycle atm....mine is just on trt !!


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## snake (Mar 1, 2018)

Just my experiences but here they are. My crits get check every time I donate blood I'm always at the 49 mark: ± 1. I once gave blood and then got blood work done 2-3 days later, my crits came back 2-3 points lower. I don't know how much that matters but it was lower than before and lower then any other recent blood work. 

As for lowering my TRT, I can say this for a fact. I'm popping a 49 on 200 mg of test or 500 mg of test. I know what they say about the increase but for some reason, I don't see that either way.


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## Iron1 (Mar 1, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Targeting RBCs just tends to be the main way of doing it - hence the focus on HCT.



I'll have to take a look when I'm not in the middle of class.
Question though, if the target is RBC's specifically, wouldn't the double red cell donation make the most sense?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 1, 2018)

Iron1 said:


> I'll have to take a look when I'm not in the middle of class.
> Question though, if the target is RBC's specifically, wouldn't the double red cell donation make the most sense?



On the face of it yes, but then you have to account for the fact you need to wait twice as long to donate again when doing double reds. Plus not all donation centers do double reds at all drives plus it takes considerably longer so they can’t do as many double reds appointments.


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 1, 2018)

Iron1 said:


> I'll have to take a look when I'm not in the middle of class.
> Question though, if the target is RBC's specifically, wouldn't the double red cell donation make the most sense?


What Doc said. 

One of the main issues with regular donations is that the impact is transient. Within a few weeks (give or take, RBC generation speeds up on AAS) you'll be back to where you were. A way around this that I've seen used successfully is platelet donations, which can be done every 2 weeks without negatively impacting Iron (well, Ferritin actually). This is discussed in that thread I linked but basically, depending on the machine in use, some RBCs also get damaged during the process so you end up lowering them too.


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## DieYoungStrong (Mar 1, 2018)

snake said:


> Just my experiences but here they are. My crits get check every time I donate blood I'm always at the 49 mark: ± 1. I once gave blood and then got blood work done 2-3 days later, my crits came back 2-3 points lower. I don't know how much that matters but it was lower than before and lower then any other recent blood work.
> 
> As for lowering my TRT, I can say this for a fact. I'm popping a 49 on 200 mg of test or 500 mg of test. I know what they say about the increase but for some reason, I don't see that either way.



Same for me except I'm 48 +/-

For guys who have high crit and RBC - do you have sleep apnea?


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## Iron1 (Mar 1, 2018)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Same for me except I'm 48 +/-
> 
> For guys who have high crit and RBC - do you have sleep apnea?



48+/- here and yes, sleep apnea.


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## Bullseye Forever (Mar 1, 2018)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Same for me except I'm 48 +/-
> 
> For guys who have high crit and RBC - do you have sleep apnea?



Yes I do have sleep apnea!


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## DieYoungStrong (Mar 1, 2018)

Iron1 said:


> 48+/- here and yes, sleep apnea.



Why do you think 48 is high? It's perfectly normal...

sleep apnea can raise your RBC and crit


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## Bullseye Forever (Mar 1, 2018)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Why do you think 48 is high? It's perfectly normal...
> 
> sleep apnea can raise your RBC and crit



Good to know dude thanks!


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## dk8594 (Mar 2, 2018)

Bullseye Forever said:


> Well I’m headed to a Hemotologist today to see what I’ve got to do to Lower my hemoctit levels,mine are a tad high to donate,min is running 53.5....and I’m not even doing a cycle atm....mine is just on trt !!



What did they say?


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## stonetag (Mar 2, 2018)

I'm way concerned also dk, just had my bloods done last week, good news (to me) test = 1546, bad news HGB = Critical 18.2 g/dl or 182 g/l. Stressing a little. Sleep apnea is also in the equation.


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## DieYoungStrong (Mar 2, 2018)

stonetag said:


> I'm way concerned also dk, just had my bloods done last week, good news (to me) test = 1546, bad news HGB = Critical 18.2 g/dl or 182 g/l. Stressing a little. Sleep apnea is also in the equation.



Sleep apnea is a MAJOR culprit in high crti etc. I believe you can take your HGB and multiply by 3 to get a rough idea of where your crit will be. Did they test that too or just HGB?

Stay hydrated.


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## stonetag (Mar 2, 2018)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Sleep apnea is a MAJOR culprit in high crti etc. I believe you can take your HGB and multiply by 3 to get a rough idea of where your crit will be. Did they test that too or just HGB?
> 
> Stay hydrated.


Yes DYS there actually is HCT, after downloading the results, my PA called me and told me about the test and HGB so I wasn't aware of the crit value until downloading the panel. It shows 53.9%, ref. range 42 - 54. The HGB is directly proportional to the HCT, correct?


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## DieYoungStrong (Mar 2, 2018)

stonetag said:


> Yes DYS there actually is HCT, after downloading the results, my PA called me and told me about the test and HGB so I wasn't aware of the crit value until downloading the panel. It shows 53.9%, ref. range 42 - 54. The HGB is directly proportional to the HCT, correct?



Pretty close yeah. Donate, take some baby aspirin and cialis and fish oil won't hurt either.


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## stonetag (Mar 2, 2018)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Pretty close yeah. Donate, take some baby aspirin and cialis and fish oil won't hurt either.



I take all the above my friend, try to cover all bases..lol Thanks


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## motown1002 (Mar 2, 2018)

Sleep Apnea is huge when talking about RBC's.  I had it so bad at one point I was getting TIA's.  BP was 265/160.  Spent a week in the hospital.  If you have apnea, get a machine.


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## Bullseye Forever (Mar 2, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> What did they say?



Said at first gonna try and lower my trt dose from 200mg/week to 100mg and see what happens....but gonna make sure I still feel ok after dropping that much,if not he said we could use another route


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## dk8594 (Mar 13, 2018)

I didn't control for hydration, but a gram/day of naringin lowered my hematocrit from 51 to 46 over a 2 week period, which is the lowest it's been since starting TRT 5 yrs ago


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## Bullseye Forever (Mar 13, 2018)

Well my visit to the oncologist told me to cut back on my trt dose from 200mg/week to 100mg/week.....in a way I was relieved cause all my other blood test he done was normal,he took 16 vials of blood


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## dk8594 (Mar 13, 2018)

Bullseye Forever said:


> Well my visit to the oncologist told me to cut back on my trt dose from 200mg/week to 100mg/week.....in a way I was relieved cause all my other blood test he done was normal,he took 16 vials of blood



16 vials?  Is he a Doctor or a vampire?


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## Bullseye Forever (Mar 13, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> 16 vials?  Is he a Doctor or a vampire?



Well I got to wondering that myself bud lol!!


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## Mythos (Jun 3, 2018)

Iron1 said:


> I was thinking about this the other day as I too donate regularly to combat a high-normal crit.
> 
> If hematocrit is just a ratio of red cells to the rest of your blood, wouldn't you have to do a "double red cell" donation in order to lower crit? Wouldn't a regular "whole blood" donation just lower your overall blood volume but do nothing to change the ratio itself?
> 
> ...



Your body replaces the fluid volume quickly with water but replacing the rbcs takes time.. So it's like pouring off some of your sweet tea then replacing what you poured off with water.


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## Bullseye Forever (Jun 3, 2018)

Mythos said:


> Your body replaces the fluid volume quickly with water but replacing the rbcs takes time.. So it's like pouring off some of your sweet tea then replacing what you poured off with water.



My hemotologist agreed to help me when I do cycles! I couldn’t believe it! Cause mine gets way high!!


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## Bicepticon (Jun 6, 2018)

Bullseye Forever said:


> My hemotologist agreed to help me when I do cycles! I couldn’t believe it! Cause mine gets way high!!


That is great!  It’s refreshing to see medical professionals actually working with their patients!


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## Yaya (Jun 6, 2018)

Tons and tons of aspirin


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