# Sarting HCG



## Malevolence (Aug 3, 2012)

I am getting ready to do my HCG and my original plan was to do a 10 day blast at 1000iu's a day.  I just read something about HCG and anything over 500iu's a day is no good.  What do you guys think???  Should I do a 20 day at 500 or a 10 day at 1000??


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## RowdyBrad (Aug 3, 2012)

I did 500iu for a while when i got some shrinkage on trt, brought the boys back with just 2x ew. Not sure that helps, but i don't do pct.


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## coltmc4545 (Aug 3, 2012)

You're fine at 1000 bro. Desentization of the leydeg cells can happen but from what I've read that's with blasting like 5000iu's at once.


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## Lulu66 (Aug 3, 2012)

Like colt said, with 1000 u should be good. Its only 10 days, not enough to cause major desensitation problems.


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## DF (Aug 3, 2012)

I've been thinking about getting back on hcg with my trt.  My boys have really shrunk down.  It's kinda weird being all sac & no potato.


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## coltmc4545 (Aug 3, 2012)

Dfeaton said:


> I've been thinking about getting back on hcg with my trt.  My boys have really shrunk down.  It's kinda weird being all sac & no potato.



Run 10 weeks of tren. Throw those potatoes in a hammock and that's what it's like.


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## Hockeyplaya18 (Aug 3, 2012)

I ran my Blast phase at 1000iu EOD for 10 days, and I had no issues, except LARGE BALLZ!


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## 63Vette (Aug 3, 2012)

250 eod does me well... if I wait pretty late (until they hurt when massaged or i cant easily locate the boys) I will go 500 ed for a week 500 eod for a week and then 250 eod


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## Pikiki (Aug 4, 2012)

I don`t see any issues at 1000ius Male, I got clinical studies that shows at the same dose we talkiing right now, 25 hypogonadal men came out on good shape and no problems or abnormality where found on testes or is test production. IMO not everyone react the same at any signal of any compound or drug so start your plan and confirm if works or not with bloodwork.


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## basskiller (Aug 4, 2012)

I had just posted this on my site last night before I went to bed.. 

AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL

I highlighted the most important change is CRISLER's HCG protocol many of you older guys might remember Dr Crisler from a few of the older boards ..He used the handle Swale back then. ~Basskiller

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. *In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).*I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.

written John Crisler aka Swale from allthingsmale.com 


food for thought


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## 63Vette (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks Basskiller!

I just pinned 500iu last night and will immediately cut back to 250iu Sun - Tues- Thurs prior to my Mon, Wed, Fri pins of Test/TrenA.


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## Jada (Aug 5, 2012)

Hi bass  which method u like using hcg while on cycle or blast protocol at the end?


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## basskiller (Aug 5, 2012)

Jadakiss said:


> Hi bass  which method u like using hcg while on cycle or blast protocol at the end?



I use it during a cycle


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## 63Vette (Aug 5, 2012)

Keep the balls in the game brother ... actually. Get lazy and ignore them until they are hard to find or hurt when I make mad passionate love.... lol... then I am rolling out the hcg and asking my nuts for forgiveness....


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## Malevolence (Aug 6, 2012)

so my wife was sucking me off last night and she ask's me, "what happened to your balls?" Time to start the HCG I guess


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 7, 2012)

Good post bass but it seems swales hcg protocol is opposite of Dr scallys....I myself prefer Dr scallys...I have issues with swales on a pathophys level...I would have to re read his studies to note the disagreements..again just my 02


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## basskiller (Aug 7, 2012)

Could you do me a favor  post Scallys  if you have it on hand. I know he posts alot on meso. I'm just in a bit of a hurry tonight to search for the exact one your speaking of .. Thanks Cobra!! 

I'll try to find his references later on tonight


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 7, 2012)

Shit bass if i had the time right now to do that I would bro...let's get Pikiki in here or get some...I think they have that shit saved on their desktop


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## Pikiki (Aug 8, 2012)

Well this one I got on hand right now and goes like this:

PRACTICAL APPLICATION 

The esters used in the abstract were cypionate and deconate however the administration of the PCT medications were started the day after aas cessation. Essentially the aas esters were still active when PCT began. The first 16 days a large amount of HCG was used in order to increase the mass of the testes so that they could sustain output of testosterone sooner. The HCG was stopped about the time the esters cleared so that estrogenic activity from the HCG would be reduced. During those first 16 days 2 different SERM’s were also employed (Clomid and Nolvadex) This protocol is contrary to what is typically recommended in many forums but regardless the protocol was effective in all 19 men. This is a 100% success rate! After the HCG was discontinued both SERM’s were continued. The following is the exact protocol in laymen’s terms.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

This will explain one old method was used from  N Vergel, AL Hodge, MC Scally for a Cyp and deconate study. This is OLD!! but the new update on this differs from start the HCG right after cessation of ASS, but instead suggest to start the HCG after ester clear out or 14-16 days ( this will depend on the ester) I know me Herm and Get Some discuss this on one thread we all agreed that blood work will be the best bet to start SERM.

The amount using on this study is high compare with the one we use for the recovery after our cycle however we need to remeber that this is for 19 guys who has being approach to cycle androgens that would result in significant changes in body composition and accelerate the normalization of the hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis (HPGA) after cessation of androgens. Thats being said that may not be our case here but this is a 100% succefull treatment.

I don`t have any other update that can I post so I hope this one help. I did not include the AI part of this to avoid get out of topic.

Pikki


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 8, 2012)

ya that is the old one. I believe though that yes it did bring the guys out from being hypogonadal but the question is by how much? Were their levels just above 200ng/dl? Remember when these studies were done the normal range of testosterone produced by males was alot lower then it is now. 300ng/dl is considered low these days. So what was the documented recovery levels? This pct after a 25 week test e/deca/eq/maste/mastp cycle only brought me back up to 285ng/dl...and that was measured 6 months after my last shot which should have gave my body plenty of time naturally to recover. Goes right back to everyone reacts differently


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## Pikiki (Aug 8, 2012)

Totally agreed CS but at least on my notes about this study the results are this one (copy paste from article)

Results

Mean FFM by DEXA increased from 64.1 to 69.8 kg (p<.001); percent body fat decreased from 23.6 to 20.9 (p<.01); strength increased significantly from 357.4 lb to 406.4 lb (p=.02). No significant changes in serum chemistries and liver function tests were found. HDL-C decreased from a mean value of 44.3 to 38.0 (p=.02). Mean values for luteinizing hormone (LH) and total testosterone (T) were 4.5 and 460, respectively prior to androgen treatment. At the conclusion of the 12-week treatment with androgens the mean LH <0.7 (p<.001) and total testosterone was 1568 (p<.001). The mean values after treatment with the combined regimen were LH=6.2 and testosterone=458.

I can`t find nothing else on my folders or online, hope this help to answer your question.


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