# How much should I try to gain on test e cycle?



## Lilleo187

So far I'm about to finish my 4th week of test e. I was 166lb before I got on and now I weigh 178lb. I'm 5'7 probably 17-20%bf. Not sure how much I should be trying to gain per week. Im eating about 3500-3600 calories everyday.Should I be upping the calories every week? What do you think?


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## TrickWilliams

No hate. To each thier own. But i personally think there was alot to be had with just proper diet and a good routine. 4 weeks, 12 pounds. Im not an expert on gear by any means at all, but most can do that without gear at all. I mean 3 pounds a week?


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## Milo

I think you started this before knowing shit about squat. How old are you and what's your training history? You need to build a base before injecting steroids into your body.
To answer your question, there's no set number per week. Lift, eat, sleep. The weight will come. But seriously you need to educate yourself and know these things before you start.


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## Milo

TrickWilliams said:


> No hate. To each thier own. But i personally think there was alot to be had with just proper diet and a good routine. 4 weeks, 12 pounds. Im not an expert on gear by any means at all, but most can do that without gear at all. I mean 3 pounds a week?


 3 pounds a week of MUSCLE is not possible. Are we talking just scale weight?


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## TrickWilliams

Yes, all I ment was scale weight. Thats all he means. Hes not talking lean mass. He knew nothing when he started. Just like you said.


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## Lilleo187

Ive been training for a year straight. Ive trained for a year like 5 years ago but this past year I been going 5 days a week and bulking the whole time. I never did a cut. I bulkd from 140 to 166lb. Yea scale weight not muscle weight with clothes on.


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## TrickWilliams

One year is not enough time to decide to jump on. Not even close. IMO. Stick around here. Like Milo said. Eat Train Sleep. For years..then do your homework and make a decision on AAS


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## Lilleo187

This is what my stomach looks like most of the time after I eat. I figured Id do a cycle bulk some more then cut. I didnt want to cut before becuase I didnt want to look skinny and I was already skinny fat, still am too


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## Lilleo187

I already started the cycle...I'm not just gona stop?


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## Lilleo187

Im 28 btw and im doing a 500mg a week cycle


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## Onk

sorry mate but you're a heavy dude and I don't mean that in a complimentary way, you look quite rotund. Steroids aren't a "magic pill" that will cure your lack of ability to follow a strict diet and train consistently. Given you've only trained for a year, you have a lot to gain naturally. I always view steroids as what you use to overachieve your natural barriers of progress.

So while you could stop now and PCT in 3 weeks once the test 3 clears, you can also keep going until you finish the cycle, learn as much as you can in the mean time, but then not cycle again until you're in a better position. 

lastly, 17-20% bf, you're dreaming.


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## Lilleo187

What would you say my body fat is at? I'm not gonna stop the cycle. I know how to diet. I just never did a cut because the rest of my body is skinny. I've looked like this all my life and Im sick of it. I know steroids arent a magic pill but i Know it will help speed up the process. I was pretty much at the peak of my bulk before starting the cycle, I was having trouble gaining more weight and now that I got on test I can easily eat more. Before even thinking about running a cycle I said to myself I will bulk to 170 then cut. It took me months to get to 166 from 160. So now I that I'm on I was thinking to put as much muscle on then after a few months of getting off do a strict cut. I have a sedentary lifstyle, I pretty much just sit at home all day through out the week and work 3 days a week sitting down. I'm trying to take advantage of this sedentary time while I can. I work out 1.5-2 hours in the gym. I put in the work in the gym and I put in the work in the kitchen. I have the same body type my dad does and I'm not trying to stay like this any longer. I was eating 3000 calories before cycle and i upped to 3500. All I need to know is how much weight should I be trying to add per week or how many calories should I up it per week. Plz dont try to talk me out of this cycle, I already started it and im going to finish it. I read up on it alot trust me. So far I have no sides running arimidex at .25 eod, should I keep it at that or bump it to .50mg?


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## Milo

Stopping at 170 pounds is not a bulk. You don't know how to diet. You don't know how to lift. You don't know how to cycle. You're using steroids because you're impatient and want everything now and you don't want to put in the real work. So now that we've established that we can move on because like you said, you started it and you're not going to stop it despite the advice of experienced members here.
1. Steroids aren't for cutting. They're for building muscle. 
2. Considering #1, you need to eat a **** load of food. Red meat, eggs, oats, butter, pasta. You need muscle on your body and counting asparagus isn't going to do that.
3. Lift heavy in the compound movements. No gay cable movements and limit machine use. Bench, squat, deadlift, BB rows, pull ups, military press.
4. PCT and don't touch the gear again until you educate yourself.


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## Popeye

Lilleo187 said:


> This is what my stomach looks like most of the time after I eat.









This is one of the stupidest posts Ive ever seen...lol, wtf...


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## Lilleo187

Milo said:


> Stopping at 170 pounds is not a bulk. You don't know how to diet. You don't know how to lift. You don't know how to cycle. You're using steroids because you're impatient and want everything now and you don't want to put in the real work. So now that we've established that we can move on because like you said, you started it and you're not going to stop it despite the advice of experienced members here.
> 1. Steroids aren't for cutting. They're for building muscle.
> 2. Considering #1, you need to eat a **** load of food. Red meat, eggs, oats, butter, pasta. You need muscle on your body and counting asparagus isn't going to do that.
> 3. Lift heavy in the compound movements. No gay cable movements and limit machine use. Bench, squat, deadlift, BB rows, pull ups, military press.
> 4. PCT and don't touch the gear again until you educate yourself.



1. I never said I was going to cut while on and I knew that. I'm trying to put on more muscle.
2. I eat alot trust me. I count my macros and calories.
3. I mainly do compounds and some isolations...hardly ever do machine work.
4. OK


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## Lilleo187

This is one of the stupidest posts Ive ever seen...lol, wtf...congrats[/QUOTE]

lol I do intermittent fasting and I eat about 2000 calories my first sitting so yea thats why I said that.


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## John Ziegler

Looks like you need to take a shit dude.

Is this what you guys mean when you say skinny fat ?


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## Lilleo187

Zeigler said:


> Looks like you need to take a shit dude.
> 
> Is this what you guys mean when you say skinny fat ?



Yes this is skinnyfat, the worse bodytype to have. I don't think its all fat tho. My stomach protrudes and is hard.


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## John Ziegler

Lilleo187 said:


> Yes this is skinnyfat, the worse bodytype to have. I don't think its all fat tho. My stomach protrudes and is hard.



Im just messin with you dude.

Your stomach is fat because you're eating a lot and bulking no way around getting a gut when you're eating that much.


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## ECKSRATED

U were no where near your natural potential. U trained for one fukking year!!!! Put some real time in the gym then try a cycle. U need to stop and pct. Then put 20 pounds of MUSCLE on before u ever consider running gear again

You've only been on four weeks. That's a good thing. 
U don't even look like u lift man and I'm not being a dick. I put in 11 years in the gym and went from 145 to 196 pounds before I even considered gear. Do yourself the favor and stop man. You're just gonna lose everything after anyways because u don't know what you're doing.


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## Onk

Zeigler said:


> Im just messin with you dude.
> 
> Your stomach is fat because you're eating a lot and bulking no way around getting a gut when you're eating that much.



dude that's wrong. i bulk at 4500 calories and don't get anywhere near that. literally half his bf. (footnote: my TDEE is 3900)


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## SHRUGS

Well ur not gonna stop and u are 28yrs old so rock n roll brother. I'd get your diet fixed up real sweet then Id up that Test to 600mgs and I'd try and reach about 196-198lbs. And if you can hit 200lbs and trim that gut at same time then I think youve done good. Shoot for that and try and learn s'more immediately and much more before next time. Make sure youve got some Aromasin or Adex thats hopefully of some quality or the pharmacy but thats probably hopin alot for that one. And lets keep our fingers crossed that you do have all your pct stuff thats needed when you're done. Whoa, just now I was seein your future. All I saw was lots of acne...
!S!


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## Lilleo187

SHRUGS said:


> Well ur not gonna stop and u are 28yrs old so rock n roll brother. I'd get your diet fixed up real sweet then Id up that Test to 600mgs and I'd try and reach about 196-198lbs. And if you can hit 200lbs and trim that gut at same time then I think youve done good. Shoot for that and try and learn s'more immediately and much more before next time. Make sure youve got some Aromasin or Adex thats hopefully of some quality or the pharmacy but thats probably hopin alot for that one. And lets keep our fingers crossed that you do have all your pct stuff thats needed when you're done. Whoa, just now I was seein your future. All I saw was lots of acne...
> !S!



Thanks for the positive reply. I'm using Arimidex .25mg eod. I have no side affects as of yet. I have a all my pct stuff.  I bought everything before i started and i went with test e only because i read its best for a first cycle. Are you saying to trim the gut while on? I was gonna cut a couple months after pct that way my body holds on to the new muscle a bit longer.


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## snake

The bad; you're a mess.
The good: you're making an attempt to fix that.

So you're in to this cycle 4 weeks and like someone said previously, up your test some. Run it out for a minimum of 12 weeks but I'd like to see 15 weeks. Fix that diet. I don't know what you're eating and your macro breakdown but obviously, it's not working.

I think you jumped on the AAS a little too quick but that's water over the bridge. Learn your body and how it reacts to diet and training and you can get where you want to be.


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## Lilleo187

snake said:


> The bad; you're a mess.
> The good: you're making an attempt to fix that.
> 
> So you're in to this cycle 4 weeks and like someone said previously, up your test some. Run it out for a minimum of 12 weeks but I'd like to see 15 weeks. Fix that diet. I don't know what you're eating and your macro breakdown but obviously, it's not working.
> 
> I think you jumped on the AAS a little too quick but that's water over the bridge. Learn your body and how it reacts to diet and training and you can get where you want to be.



Ok...i was plannin on doing a 12 week cycle. Why do you suggest 15 weeks and up the test? Will i have to buy more? I only have 2 full vials and 1/4 left of another one. I dont have the money to buy any more. My macros are like this 350-400carbs/100-120f/160-200p since i got on the test.


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## PillarofBalance

Lilleo187 said:


> Ok...i was plannin on doing a 12 week cycle. Why do you suggest 15 weeks and up the test? Will i have to buy more? I only have 2 full vials and 1/4 left of another one. I dont have the money to buy any more. My macros are like this 350-400carbs/100-120f/160-200p since i got on the test.



You said up to 3600 cals in the op. What you describe here is 3480.  Consistency in eating is going to be key here.

There is no reason you can't lose fat and gain plenty muscle on this cycle but it will requiring training intensities someone with your length of training history can't achieve yet.  

Results aside I am more interested in preserving your endocrine system for the future.

Just to be clear are you aware that when you inject testosterone your body halts it's own production? Are you aware that restarting that production is not always possible? Do you know yet how to try and cause the body to restart it's production? 

What is your plan for post cycle therapy? 

Do you plan to continue cycling in the future? 

Do you think your money would be better spent on gear or on professionally designed training and/or nutrition programs to get you to where you want to be?


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## snake

Lilleo187 said:


> Ok...i was plannin on doing a 12 week cycle. Why do you suggest 15 weeks and up the test? Will i have to buy more? I only have 2 full vials and 1/4 left of another one. I dont have the money to buy any more. My macros are like this 350-400carbs/100-120f/160-200p since i got on the test.



I just figure if you're going to shut yourself down, get the most out of it and that's the reason for 15 wks. Plus test is well tolerated by most so as long as you keep your E in check, you'll be fine.


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## Lilleo187

Yes im aware of the natural shut down. Im not too worried about it. Im not plannin on having any kids soon. Im single and i plan on staying that way for a while. All i want to do is get rid of this stomach and build some muscle. I know its not really possiblr to do lose fat and gain muscle thats why im bulkin to build more muscle. My legs and everything else are scrawny. I have ibs and im lactose intolerant so my diet is very limited.  I have clomid and nolvadex for pct.  I was going to do 50/50/50/50 clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva 3 weeks after last pin.


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## SuperBane

Read this thread:
https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3728-First-Cycle-All-You-Need-to-Know


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## Lilleo187

SuperBane said:


> Read this thread:
> https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3728-First-Cycle-All-You-Need-to-Know



I already know most of that. Ive done my research for months before i started the cycle. I dont need to know how to cycle. All i asked was for some dieting advice and yet nobody has helped me with that. If nobody wants to offer me any help than i will ask somewhere else.


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## Lilleo187

Heres some other pics i took today without any food in my stomach.


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## TrickWilliams

Diet advice midway thru first cycle ftw!

But seriously Milo told you. Just eat man. All the meat you can, oats, eggs, rice, potatoes


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## Lilleo187

TrickWilliams said:


> Diet advice midway thru first cycle ftw!
> 
> But seriously Milo told you. Just eat man. All the meat you can, oats, eggs, rice, potatoes



I got that lol but im talkin about calorie wise? Like when do i up it again? How do i know if im eating too much?


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## TrickWilliams

Your not. You weight what? 180? Just eat. Especially when your on.


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## Lilleo187

TrickWilliams said:


> Your not. You weight what? 180? Just eat. Especially when your on.




5'7 178lb with clothes on


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## automatondan

Lilleo187 said:


> I got that lol but im talkin about calorie wise? Like when do i up it again? How do i know if im eating too much?



No one is going to spoon-feed you dude. Have you read through all the stickies in the diet section? This is kinda basic stuff. Stick around and put your reading cap on, lots of info in there and the rest of the threads on how to diet properly. You can use the search function too.


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## SuperBane

Lilleo187 said:


> I already know most of that. Ive done my research for months before i started the cycle. I dont need to know how to cycle. All i asked was for some dieting advice and yet nobody has helped me with that. If nobody wants to offer me any help than i will ask somewhere else.






"Well Bye - Curly Bill"


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## Onk

Lilleo187 said:


> *I already know most of that. Ive done my research for months before i started the cycle. I dont need to know how to cycle.* All i asked was for some dieting advice and yet nobody has helped me with that. If nobody wants to offer me any help than i will ask somewhere else.





Lilleo187 said:


> *Yes im aware of the natural shut down. Im not too worried about it. Im not plannin on having any kids soon.* Im single and i plan on staying that way for a while.



for someone who has done their research, why are you asking for diet advice (the easy part as it's legal with countless studies done) and why are you saying that shutting down your HPTA will stop reproduction when this isn't true?


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## Onk

as for your diet, here's me making it easy for you.

Calculate your TDEE
Eat 10% more than your TDEE EVERY SINGLE DAY
Re-calculate your TDEE every 2nd/3rd week as it will change as your weight changes
Make sure you have a decent protein portion to this diet

and that's it. 

As currently, you're eating as much as me, when I weigh over 20lbs more than you and training 2x a day, despite you having a sedantary lifestyle (your words). You should be growing by the day, adding a good 2lbs every week. That you aren't....means you're doing something incorrectly.


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## Runningwild

Onk said:


> for someone who has done their research, why are you asking for diet advice (the easy part as it's legal with countless studies done) and why are you saying that shutting down your HPTA will stop reproduction when this isn't true?



Agreed,  Lilleo you need to do more research there is much more to shutting down your own production, this is why plenty of people who arnt trying to have kids get put on TRT.  Trust me I was young and dumb once and now have to be on TrT because I started to quickly before I knew everything.  Which you should know close to everything when it comes to injecting hormones into your body.  And when I shut myself down and wasn't able to maintain normal natural levels, life was hard and miserable.  What you are doing right now has the potential to negatively affect you for the rest of your life.  Choose very carfully and wisely of what your next moves are man, and please take the advice of the guys here who know more than you.


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## Lilleo187

Onk said:


> as for your diet, here's me making it easy for you.
> 
> Calculate your TDEE
> Eat 10% more than your TDEE EVERY SINGLE DAY
> Re-calculate your TDEE every 2nd/3rd week as it will change as your weight changes
> Make sure you have a decent protein portion to this diet
> 
> and that's it.
> 
> As currently, you're eating as much as me, when I weigh over 20lbs more than you and training 2x a day, despite you having a sedantary lifestyle (your words). You should be growing by the day, adding a good 2lbs every week. That you aren't....means you're doing something incorrectly.



Preciate the solid advice man. I guess i should up the calories a bit then. So do you think itd be ok to bump the test to 600mg cus literally i have no sides at all.Barely have a libido increase.


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## Lilleo187

Runningwild said:


> Agreed,  Lilleo you need to do more research there is much more to shutting down your own production, this is why plenty of people who arnt trying to have kids get put on TRT.  Trust me I was young and dumb once and now have to be on TrT because I started to quickly before I knew everything.  Which you should know close to everything when it comes to injecting hormones into your body.  And when I shut myself down and wasn't able to maintain normal natural levels, life was hard and miserable.  What you are doing right now has the potential to negatively affect you for the rest of your life.  Choose very carfully and wisely of what your next moves are man, and please take the advice of the guys here who know more than you.



I appreciate your concern bro. Im not gonna cycle longer than 12 weeks and its only 500mg a week. I should be ok with proper pct rightm Sorry im not sure if you're if u are suggesting something?


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## Lilleo187

Sorry dbl post


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## ToolSteel

Op already done sucked the dick. There's no unsucking it. Least we can do is help him avoid a total cluster****. 

Step one to getting stronger: lose the mother****ing man-bun.


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## Onk

Lilleo187 said:


> Preciate the solid advice man. I guess i should up the calories a bit then. So do you think itd be ok to bump the test to 600mg cus literally i have no sides at all.Barely have a libido increase.



definitely not. More steroids are not your answer. Nearly every post in this thread has mentioned that you don't even need steroids to grow, let alone taking more. I repeat, that is not the answer. 

The problem is in your diet or training. 

Also, judging tolerance to gear by sides is never going to be accurate. Some people get horny as ****, some don't, some grow more hair, some sweat at night, some get hungrier, some get no sides at all. Makes no difference. ** THis only pertains if you cycle again, I'm correcting your ignorance not teaching you to cycle, something you don't need to do right now.


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## John Ziegler

ToolSteel said:


> Step one to getting stronger: lose the mother****ing man-bun.



View attachment 3250


View attachment 3251


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## ToolSteel

Zeigler said:


> View attachment 3250
> 
> 
> View attachment 3251



Not following you


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## Bro Bundy

That fat guy is not a athlete .. He may be strong but he's fat unhealthy and out of shape.. Not a good example of a pl or strength athlete at all


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## John Ziegler

Those are olympic super heavyweight champions that have set world records.

Hossein Rezazade






Vasily Alexeev


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## John Ziegler

ToolSteel said:


> Not following you



Getting rid of the man bun isn't really the first step to getting stronger if that were the case these dude's wouldn't be world champions.



Bro Bundy said:


> That fat guy is not a athlete .. He may be strong but he's fat unhealthy and out of shape.. Not a good example of a pl or strength athlete at all



He actually is an athlete according to Merriam - Webster's definition of an athlete :  a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina


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## ToolSteel

Zeigler said:


> Getting rid of the man bun isn't really the first step to getting stronger if that were the case these dude's wouldn't be world champions.



Come on z

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Manbun


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## Bro Bundy

Are you trying to become a Olympic lifter? I've seen plenty of pl and oly lifters that where in great shape with no giant gut.. Why would anyone wanna look like that?


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## Bro Bundy

Our guys here are pl and are in great shape .. Being fat and out of shape looking isn't required to be strong.. Look at ecks , pob,  dys, joli,tren4 life,, all pl all in good shape


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## Lilleo187

im not trying to be a power lifter by any means. I dont know where you guys got that from? I wanna look aesthetic. Dont hate on my man bun cus u probably cant grow hair.


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## Bro Bundy

Lilleo187 said:


> im not trying to be a power lifter by any means. I dont know where you guys got that from? I wanna look aesthetic. Dont hate on my man bun cus u probably cant grow hair.



Being strong and jacked while looking good is a great goal


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## Lilleo187

Bro Bundy said:


> Being strong and jacked while looking good is a great goal



I would like to look like Jon Skywalker or Jeff Seid. Not trying to get massive just some decent size with low body fat. I know I'll never look like them but thats the goal I want to achieve.


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## automatondan

Lilleo187 said:


> im not trying to be a power lifter by any means. I dont know where you guys got that from? I wanna look aesthetic. Dont hate on my man bun cus u probably cant grow hair.



I happen to have a full head of great hair and would NEVER, ever grow a man-bun because I am a man who doesnt read Cosmo... I do wear flannels, but infact, I actually cut down trees... I have a beard, but its because God gave me a way to have natural camo when I hunt.


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## John Ziegler

ToolSteel said:


> Come on Z



I got manbun mixed up with muffin top or assumed it because he was complaining about his belly.


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## ToolSteel

Bro Bundy said:


> Our guys here are pl and are in great shape .. Being fat and out of shape looking isn't required to be strong.. Look at ecks , pob,  dys, joli,tren4 life,, all pl all in good shape


Why don't you just flat out call me fat already lol


Lilleo187 said:


> im not trying to be a power lifter by any means. I dont know where you guys got that from? I wanna look aesthetic. Dont hate on my man bun cus u probably cant grow hair.


It looks like a tied off nutsack. 
They're catabolic. It's scientifically proven.


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## John Ziegler

Until you said that I never noticed how many dudes at my gym (planet gayness) are sporting the fkin manbun :32 (18):


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## Lilleo187

Zeigler said:


> Until you said that I never noticed how many dudes at my gym (planet gayness) are sporting the fkin manbun :32 (18):



Goto a real gym


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## TrickWilliams

Your going to piss a lot people off around here


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## Frenchie

And I was asking myself if I was advanced enough to use any gear with my 200 pounds at 11%bf or if I was just cheating coz I was lazy. Man you lifted all that guilt from me 
I am not gonna burry you deeper than the other guys already did ^^


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## Lilleo187

Frenchie said:


> And I was asking myself if I was advanced enough to use any gear with my 200 pounds at 11%bf or if I was just cheating coz I was lazy. Man you lifted all that guilt from me
> I am not gonna burry you deeper than the other guys already did ^^



I'll post my results in a couple months. We'll see whos laughing then...


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## Lilleo187

I thought we were all here to support each other. Not to bring people down. I mean were all in it for the same reasons right.. but that doesnt seem to be the case here.


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## Milo

I think you're going to realize that AAS is not a miracle drug.


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## TrickWilliams

Lilleo187 said:


> I thought we were all here to support each other. Not to bring people down. I mean were all in it for the same reasons right.. but that doesnt seem to be the case here.



We are here to support each other. Your not taking our support, so then we make fun...You only want us to tell you what you want to hear. There is no helping you. There is no support. Your going to just do whatever you want, therefore no one cares my friend.


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## Milo

We are here to support each other. But also to look out for each other. Which is what we're doing in your case. Trying to steer you away from doing things the lazy and ineffective way.


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## Frenchie

You're right, shouldn't have made fun of you but damn ... when I saw you were taking test at your stage of training, I was shocked ...
Sorry about that, listen to the guys here (not me I don't know shit ^^) 

PS : I killed myself for three years at each training ... if you get to where I am in two months, even if I am natural I will be very very disappointed. And surprised.


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## ToolSteel

Lilleo187 said:


> I'll post my results in a couple months. We'll see whos laughing then...



Forty bucks and log of cope says it'll be me


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## Joliver

ToolSteel said:


> Forty bucks and log of cope says it'll be me



Cope. See that? Man I hate rich people.


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## TrickWilliams

Joliver said:


> Cope. See that? Man I hate rich people.



I havent laughed that hard in awhile


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## Lilleo187

Frenchie said:


> You're right, shouldn't have made fun of you but damn ... when I saw you were taking test at your stage of training, I was shocked ...
> Sorry about that, listen to the guys here (not me I don't know shit ^^)
> 
> PS : I killed myself for three years at each training ... if you get to where I am in two months, even if I am natural I will be very very disappointed. And surprised.



Its cool man, I got thick skin. I see it this way I want to look good now, not when I'm 40. I'm not getting any younger, Trust me I'm not going to be counting calories/macros and working out as much as I am now at the age. I'm dedicating alot of time in to this shit. I'm only working a 3 day job just so I can eat, train and rest properly. I have 3 years experience but not 3 years consistently due to other more important things in life. Now I live alone, im single, I dont go out, I just sit at home, eat, train, and sleep. I'm 28 years old and its my choice to do whatever I want. I already gained 14 lbs in 5 weeks and before I hit my plateu I was only gaining a lb a month Naturaly.


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## ECKSRATED

Lilleo187 said:


> Its cool man, I got thick skin. I see it this way I want to look good now, not when I'm 40. I'm not getting any younger, Trust me I'm not going to be counting calories/macros and working out as much as I am now at the age. I'm dedicating alot of time in to this shit. I'm only working a 3 day job just so I can eat, train and rest properly. I have 3 years experience but not 3 years consistently due to other more important things in life. Now I live alone, im single, I dont go out, I just sit at home, eat, train, and sleep. I'm 28 years old and its my choice to do whatever I want. I already gained 14 lbs in 5 weeks and before I hit my plateu I was only gaining a lb a month Naturaly.



A pound a month naturally is good. That's 12 pounds a year. I'm sure u can do the math but in two years you'd have almost 25 extra pounds of solid weight on your frame that your probably keep forever. Not blow up in ten weeks then lose it all. But like u said its your decision to do what u want


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## Lilleo187

ECKSRATED said:


> A pound a month naturally is good. That's 12 pounds a year. I'm sure u can do the math but in two years you'd have almost 25 extra pounds of solid weight on your frame that your probably keep forever. Not blow up in ten weeks then lose it all. But like u said its your decision to do what u want



Why do you assume I will lose it all? I intend to keep at least half of what I gain. I wont be doing a cut till a few months after pct.


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## SkinnyAssShotgun

Milo said:


> Stopping at 170 pounds is not a bulk. You don't know how to diet. You don't know how to lift. You don't know how to cycle. You're using steroids because you're impatient and want everything now and you don't want to put in the real work. So now that we've established that we can move on because like you said, you started it and you're not going to stop it despite the advice of experienced members here.
> 1. Steroids aren't for cutting. They're for building muscle.
> 2. Considering #1, you need to eat a **** load of food. Red meat, eggs, oats, butter, pasta. You need muscle on your body and counting asparagus isn't going to do that.
> 3. Lift heavy in the compound movements. No gay cable movements and limit machine use. Bench, squat, deadlift, BB rows, pull ups, military press.
> 4. PCT and don't touch the gear again until you educate yourself.



Butter?
Reason?
Thanks for the info in above comment!


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## ToolSteel

SkinnyAssShotgun said:


> Butter?
> Reason?
> Thanks for the info in above comment!



Calories are King. If and only if the calories are where they need to be do you even begin worrying about specific macro percentages.


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## Milo

Pretty much that^^^
I don't care what program you're on or what drug your sticking into your ass. Without the calories, ain't shit happening. And the fat and salt in butter is an amazing tool for gaining.


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## Lilleo187

Milo said:


> Pretty much that^^^
> I don't care what program you're on or what drug your sticking into your ass. Without the calories, ain't shit happening. And the fat and salt in butter is an amazing tool for gaining.



Well im averaging at about 3800 cal. right now. Do you think this is too much? 5'7 178


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## Lilleo187

SkinnyAssShotgun said:


> Butter?
> Reason?
> Thanks for the info in above comment!



Fats...but i prefer olive oil.


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## ToolSteel

Lilleo187 said:


> Well im averaging at about 3800 cal. right now. Do you think this is too much? 5'7 178



That's a question with no correct answer. What's your tdee? What's the scale doing? I thought you had this all figured out, bro.


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## Lilleo187

ToolSteel said:


> That's a question with no correct answer. What's your tdee? What's the scale doing? I thought you had this all figured out, bro.



I did until you guys confused me making me sound fat as hell so now i dont know if im eatin too much or to little. According to some website my tdee is 2700 calories but i think that is too low. My workout regimen is pretty intense. 2 hours, 5 days week. The rest of the time im sedentary. So far Im staying around 178-179lbs. The scaled hasnt really moved in 2 weeks. So im thinking i should up the calories to 4000. I have a really fast metabolism too. Im thinking of doin what somebody else said on a prrevious post to make it a goal to hit 195. I just dont want to end up with too much fat. How many lbs per week should i try to gain?


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## ToolSteel

Going by lbs per week is a bit nil when you have cycle fluctuations. The best thing to do is track your weight an calories off cycle. Find the average. 
Online calculators just get you in the ballpark. 

If you're eating 3800/day and weight isn't moving.... Then 3800 is your maintenence calories. It's that simple.


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## Lilleo187

ToolSteel said:


> Going by lbs per week is a bit nil when you have cycle fluctuations. The best thing to do is track your weight an calories off cycle. Find the average.
> Online calculators just get you in the ballpark.
> 
> If you're eating 3800/day and weight isn't moving.... Then 3800 is your maintenence calories. It's that simple.



I did track my calories off cycle. 3000-3200 seemed to maintain my natural weight of 168.


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## automatondan

Lilleo187 said:


> I did track my calories off cycle. 3000-3200 seemed to maintain my natural weight of 168.



Starting to make sense now? 3200 used to be maintenance at 168. You are now 10 lbs heavier and thus require considerably more calories just to maintain that extra 10 lbs. Right? So now, as you level out on the scale and stop gaining at around 3800 cal you find that 3800 cal is too low and has now become your maintenance calories. With TDEE, you have to continually adjust your macros and caloric intake based off your body changes and training intensity... All of this can be found in the diet and nutrition section. But until you have a solid grasp and control of dieting, I would recommend you not even consider AAS. Save your money. Save your body. Save yourself a lot of mistakes. Do your reading dude. If you become properly educated you will actually have a better chance at reaching your full potential... Doesn't that sound appealing...?


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## Lilleo187

automatonDan said:


> Starting to make sense now? 3200 used to be maintenance at 168. You are now 10 lbs heavier and thus require considerably more calories just to maintain that extra 10 lbs. Right? So now, as you level out on the scale and stop gaining at around 3800 cal you find that 3800 cal is too low and has now become your maintenance calories. With TDEE, you have to continually adjust your macros and caloric intake based off your body changes and training intensity... All of this can be found in the diet and nutrition section. But until you have a solid grasp and control of dieting, I would recommend you not even consider AAS. Save your money. Save your body. Save yourself a lot of mistakes. Do your reading dude. If you become properly educated you will actually have a better chance at reaching your full potential... Doesn't that sound appealing...?



Ok that's all i needed to know. So ima up it to 4000 calories then.


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## automatondan

Lilleo187 said:


> Ok that's all i needed to know. So ima up it to 4000 calories then.



If I were you, I would actually do the math and find your exact (current) TDEE and then set your bulking macros/cal intake off of an exact and calculated formula. Otherwise you are just guessing....


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## Lilleo187

automatonDan said:


> If I were you, I would actually do the math and find your exact (current) TDEE and then set your bulking macros/cal intake off of an exact and calculated formula. Otherwise you are just guessing....



I did that already. It doesnt seem right to me. If i eat 3000 calories ill lose weight for sure then I wont build muscle.


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## automatondan

Ya, you may be expending more calories than you think you are and thus need more than that calculator is suggesting....


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## Lilleo187

I must be eating enough cus i just gained another 3lbs. Im at 181 now, week 6.


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