# Mast and hair loss



## mistah187 (Nov 29, 2012)

What's up fellas. Just lookin for some experiences with mast and hair loss. Any prevention tips? I've never had problems with hair loss. But I have read that mast can b a problem. My dads hair ends where his hat sits lol so that is a little concern. Thanx for any input.


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## 63Vette (Nov 29, 2012)

Take a look at your mother's father. That's typically YOUR future brother.

Mast is *basically* DHT... DHT starves and chokes off hair follicles on your head.... JUST on your head.... ain't that a bitch!! 

Finesteride and Minoxidil combined are the most effective treatment but must be used indefinitely.

If you do NOT want to go that route look for a shampoo with Kopexil and caffeine as major ingredients.

Much Respect,
Vette


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## Azog (Nov 29, 2012)

Vette nailed it. 

I keep nizoral, spironolactone and minoxidil around. I've heard Spiro can work for all aas, not just dht. It's an androgen blocker not a dht blocker. I'm not sure how true that is,  but it's what I've read a few places.


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## DADAWG (Nov 29, 2012)

masteron wasnt as bad as winnie for hair loss as far as im concerned.


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## Cashout (Nov 30, 2012)

Actually, Masteron is not "basically DHT." 

It is very different. Yes, the base compound is the the base steroid ring with the c=c double bond removed at the C4-C5 position. From there the other modifications make Mastron and its properties very differnt from DHT. 

First, it has much weaker binding affinity for the androgen receptor than either DHT or test. This is so because it doesn't interact with the 5-AR like other compounds. That 5-AR reduction is what actually causes test to convert to DHT. 

So, compared to DHT and Test, Masteron has 1/3 and about 2/3 the androgenic property of the aforementioned compounds - that generally translates to less binding to the androgen receptors on the hair follicles.


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## 63Vette (Nov 30, 2012)

Cashout said:


> Actually, Masteron is not "basically DHT."
> 
> It is very different.* Yes, the base compound is the the base steroid ring with the c=c double bond removed at the C4-C5 position.* From there the other modifications make Mastron and its properties very differnt from DHT.
> 
> ...



*Masteron is a derivative of dihydrotestosterone or DHT* ...  for the purpose of the OP I simplified my answer. 

If it makes you feel better to not address his question but to point out the differences between the derivative Masteron and DHT,  then by all means go for it. 

Regardless, the man simply wants to know how to save his hair ... and regarding balding.. "Although these changes (hair loss) are driven by androgens, most molecular mechanisms are unknown, limiting available treatments. The mesenchyme-derived dermal papilla at the base of the mainly epithelial hair follicle controls the type of hair produced and is probably the site through which androgens act on follicle cells by altering the regulatory paracrine factors produced by dermal papilla cells." I recommend you consider this: AAS induced alopecia. The specific mechanism of balding for the purposes of answering the OP's question is not relevant. ALL androgen producing hormones can cause baldness in men. 

As for Mast, it also acts as a mild AE as well.... and was invented to help treat breast cancer...... and since does not convert to estrogen through means of aromatisation can be run without an AI .... can we get back to the OPs question now??  His question was about hair loss and if we had : *"Any prevention tips?"* 

Do you have any??

Again, for the purpose of hair loss and prevention I think it is safe to consider that as a DHT derivative Masteron can indeed be hard on your hairline and the hair products I recommend are the best current treatment for AAS induced hair loss.

But that is just my opinion and I respect that yours is much different.


Vette


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## 63Vette (Nov 30, 2012)

DADAWG said:


> masteron wasnt as bad as winnie for hair loss as far as im concerned.




Mast is hell on my joints but not as much my hair... tren on the other hand kills my hair.... seems I remember POB saying Dbol killed his...

Respect,
Vette


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## ken Sass (Nov 30, 2012)

mast causes joint problems?? i have never heard that. you know the more i learn the more i think straight test is the best aas. am i wrong?


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## 63Vette (Nov 30, 2012)

ken said:


> mast causes joint problems?? i have never heard that. you know the more i learn the more i think straight test is the best aas. am i wrong?



*Mast doesn't typically create joint problems to the best of my knowledge Ken.* 

I have pretty banged up joints. Mast dries me out... a lot... the removal of water from the adipose area is why so many BBs like it as a 'finisher' just prior to competition... apparently, that small amount of water removal has a relatively profound affect on me. 

There may be someone else here that has this same issue, I have not heard anyone else say they do though. Regardless,  it isn't debilitating and I run it anyway. 

Much Respect,
Vette


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## mistah187 (Nov 30, 2012)

thanxs guys. as far as my moms dad... he had a full head of hair til he kicked it. it never ceases to amaze me how much bros know about all aspects of aas. i remember no internet and reading my book i had called anabolic primer over and over. lol along with anabolics 2000 and arnolds encyclopedia.


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## Azog (Nov 30, 2012)

63Vette said:


> Mast is hell on my joints but not as much my hair... tren on the other hand kills my hair.... seems I remember POB saying Dbol killed his...
> 
> Respect,
> Vette



Do you take any measures to attempt to combat the hairloss caused by tren?


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## mistah187 (Nov 30, 2012)

thanx cashout. somehow i didnt come across this in my search


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## Yaya (Nov 30, 2012)

with mast i did notice some hair coming out more frequent, i then added some nizoral shampoo and it actually worked. The only side i noticed from mast was prostate pressure and i doubled up on SAW p and all was good


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## Cashout (Nov 30, 2012)

Finasteride is not effective with Tren at all. 

Tren has no interaction with the 5-AR enzyme and that is the mechanism through which finasteride functionally works to limit the androgenic expression in AAS. 

Tren is the most androgenic commercially produced AAS available so, on a mgs to mgs basis, Tren has the greatest negative impact on hair follicles.

Taking finasteride out of the equation, Rogaine is the next most effective option.



Azog said:


> Do you take any measures to attempt to combat the hairloss caused by tren?


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## BigFella (Nov 30, 2012)

And as an aside: Is it true that Nizoral assists in preventing hair loss? I'm fine with using it twice a day, as its perfectly acceptable as a shampoo, and I'm even happier if it may help me keep my hair longer. (61 years old, nearly full head of hair, thinning at the top.)


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## Cashout (Nov 30, 2012)

Yeah, I guess the information I detailed and linked in the other thread wasn't enough for you so I'll add to it just for you Vette.

Finasteride is of NO USE with Masteron, or any DHT derived AAS. The DHT derived steroids like Masteron, Winstrol, Var, don't interact with the 5-AR so finasteride cannot work to reduce their specific androgenic properties. 

AGAIN, as I stated in my first post in the is thread, DHT derived AAS are FAR LESS androgenic than DHT or Test so the potential impact on the androgen receptors on the hair follicles is greatly reduced when one is using DHT derivied AAS compared to other more androgenic steroids like test or Tren for that matter.

There you go Vette, your wait is over!






63Vette said:


> I assume your question is rhetorical?
> 
> Some of us look for ways to answer questions asked while others seek to nit-pick irrelevant, off topic information.  I like to encourage people and to seek common ground. My posts speak for themselves.
> 
> ...


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## Yaya (Nov 30, 2012)

Guys your both extremely educated in this topic, thank you both cashout and vette.


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## 63Vette (Nov 30, 2012)

Cashout said:


> Yeah, I guess the information I detailed and linked in the other thread wasn't enough for you so I'll add to it just for you Vette.
> *And here is a link for you cash....*
> Finasteride is of NO USE with Masteron, or any DHT derived AAS. ((Really?. Maybe you would like to read the previous link i just created about the great prostate benefits of Finesteride)) The DHT derived steroids like Masteron, Winstrol, Var, don't interact with the 5-AR so finasteride cannot work to reduce their specific androgenic properties.
> 
> ...




It wasn't my question cash.... but thanks for restating your opinion. Sort of. 

*You have still not suggested a way to help reduce hair loss with mast.*

*Additionally, you are apparently assuming that a brother is going to run mast...alone.....  no test or any other androgen that will also cause hair loss. I find that a strange assumption.*

Perhaps since you are a professional body builder you can tell us why running mast alone is a good idea. Most of us. non-professionals with other occupations run mast with testosterone.  If that is too much to ask, maybe you can just refer us to a link of a previous post where you touted the advantages of running mast without test.

*I will stand by my answer to the OP that he will benefit from using a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor like finasteride and a vasodilator medication like Minoxidil combined as his most effective treatment. *

I appreciated his question and if there was something incorrect in my answer then by all means feel free to correct t it, expand on it, or do whatever makes you happy with it.... but at least give the OP the courtesy of answering his question in the process.

Feel free to have the last word. I am not big on beating a dead horse ...

Vette


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## Cashout (Nov 30, 2012)

Vette, I am not wasting any more of my time with you on this board. Period. End of discussion. 




63Vette said:


> It wasn't my question cash.... but thanks for restating your opinion. Sort of.
> 
> *You have still not suggested a way to help reduce hair loss with mast.*
> 
> ...


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## Hockeyplaya18 (Nov 30, 2012)

Why you two geniuses gotta be pissing each other off, I love having you both around, and you both have great knowledge on many subjects pertaining to AAS and other things. CHEER UP BUTTERCUPS!!!


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## mistah187 (Nov 30, 2012)

Damn didnt want to start a argument. i agree with hockey you guys r both knowledgeable. maybe just two different ways of looking at things. i appreciate both of your opinions and i did read your post from ology cash. i think in my situation one of the shampoos will suffice. thanx again fellas.


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## grind4it (Nov 30, 2012)

For whatever it's worth brother I use Rogain...I don't know why it works but the shit works.


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## mistah187 (Nov 30, 2012)

^if i notice it starting to go believe me i will be using rogain, shampoo, whatever works lol


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## SuperBane (Nov 30, 2012)

Why is it said once you start using Rogaine you have to keep using it?
I am 30ish with no balding goin on, yet I do not know and have never seen grandfathers on either side of ly family.
Uncles on both sides BOTH have hair and dont have hair.
Smh.


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## Testnoester (Dec 4, 2012)

Cashout, what you are stating here is that Masteron actually causes significantly less hair loss than Test? That is quite a claim. Masteron is widely believed to be one of the most problematic steroids when it comes to hair loss. Much more so than test.


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## Christosterone (Dec 4, 2012)

Nizoral or spironolactone gel...best options IMO


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## DADAWG (Dec 4, 2012)

Testnoester said:


> Cashout, what you are stating here is that Masteron actually causes significantly less hair loss than Test? That is quite a claim. Masteron is widely believed to be one of the most problematic steroids when it comes to hair loss. Much more so than test.



my experience was zero hair loos with masteron , winnie is the only thing thats been any problem yet. again just my experience.


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## Cashout (Dec 4, 2012)

Testnoester said:


> Cashout, what you are stating here is that Masteron actually causes significantly less hair loss than Test? That is quite a claim. Masteron is *widely believed* to be one of the most problematic steroids when it comes to hair loss. Much more so than test.



On a mg for mg basis, DHT derived AAS are far less androgenic than test. That means they bind to the the androgen receptor with far less affinity. Masteron, in all published studies, demonstrates at most 40% of the binding affinity that test demonstrates with respect to the androgen receptor. 

This idea that DHT derived steroids, Masteron being one, bind more vigorously to the androgen receptor, and therefore are "worse on the hair line" than test is not supported in the literature anywhere.


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