# Dbol cycle



## nd3093

One of my buddies had some left over 50Mg pink tablets of Dianabol from Geneza Pharmaceuticals, enough for a quick 5 week dbol cycle. I would run a test base but I want to give this a try for my first cycle and see what kind of results I get. I know Dbol only cycles are shit but some make decent gains and others lose their gains.

Stats:
180 LB (Lean) - Have been training for 4 years
Height: 5'10
Age: 22
Body Fat: Around 15-20%

Dbol Cycle:
I am taking 25MG of Dbol everyday for 35 days straight. I take the full dose of 25MG 1 hour before working out as I believe breaking down the doses will cause your liver to be stressed out even more.

Aromasin: I have Arimidex on hand and I take it every 3 days at 0.5MG to prevent estrogen buildup and counter Gyno. If I begin to have itchy or sore nips, I will change this to every 2 days.

PCT: Nolvadex - I will be running 40MG everyday for 10 days and tapper down to 20MG everyday for another 10 days, for a total of 20 days. (Gym friend was successful with this for PCT and recommended it to me). 

I am also taking Milk Thistle 3 times a day even though I have no clue if it does anything, A multivitamin, and fish oil. I haven't noticed any side effects and I have been on for 5 days.

I have already started the cycle as of Monday 7/27/2015 and have noticed increased strength, however, I don't think I'm retaining much water as I have only jumped 2-3 pounds in 5 days. I weigh myself today after doing legs and eating my 2nd meal and I was actually 177. I eat 5 clean and healthy meals a day along with 3 snacks. My calories are broken down into 40/40/20 Ratio and I am hitting over 200 grams of protein. No side effects, great pumps, I don't drink or smoke so my liver can handle 5 weeks of 25MG.

I'm training 6 times a week and getting plenty of sleep and drinking a gallon of water a day.


I know Dbol cycle only is a shit but that's what I want to experiment and that's all I have right now. I've heard some making gains and others not making gains.

Please feel free to offer any recommendations - Should I stop? Continue? If I stop and wait for a Test base what should I do?

Thank you for taking your time reading this! Happy Lifting!


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## losieloos

Do it. Just keep an eye for bitch tits. You'll probably gain a bit of water weight so after you come of you'll look flat.


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## nd3093

Any suggestions?


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## bvs

I wouldn't recommend a dbol only cycle but it looks like you have already made that choice. Id use NAC 3x a day instead of milk thistle, hcg 250iu twice a week and combine clomid with the nolvadex for pct. You want to give yourself the best possible chance of recovery.


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## nd3093

I only have Nolva though


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## LeanHerm

1 dbol only is not a good cycle, number two you're still young.  You also do not have a good solid body yet and have some work to do before you cycle. You're size and bf tell me you need diet advice before you do anything. 20%bf at 185 at your height is not a great build.  We say have a good build, because your ligaments and stuff have to be solid and strong enough to support the excess muscle mass and weight.


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## nd3093

LeanHerm said:


> 1 dbol only is not a good cycle, number two you're still young.  You also do not have a good solid body yet and have some work to do before you cycle. You're size and bf tell me you need diet advice before you do anything. 20%bf at 185 at your height is not a great build.  We say have a good build, because your ligaments and stuff have to be solid and strong enough to support the excess muscle mass and weight.



What should I do then?


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## GSgator

You sound very Knowledgeable in your working out and meal plans it also looks like you have done your research in what AI's to use and what you want to do for a PCT and I mean no disrespect but I want to ask why did you decide to do AAS. It looks like your just researching with a low dose dbol cycle not sure maybe scared of needles?? But regardless your shutting down your natural test production as if your doing a cycle of injectable test why not go all out. We all know a dbol only cycle will Yeild zero keepable gains?? Sorry bro I just seen so many post of you KIDS yes I said kids when it comes to bbing at 22 you are a kid and you need to realize in this sport the shit doesn't happen over night you need to pay your dues and bust your ass for a few years like I said you seem knowledgeable in diet and working out so put that to good use and take advantage of your youth and natural IGF/test levels and build a solid foundation by good ol fashion ball busting hard work.


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## GSgator

nd3093 said:


> What should I do then?



What should you do eat and lift weights it's simple .


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## RISE

If you know it's a shit cycle, why even run it?  Makes no sense dude.  Like someone stated above, your weight/height/body fat ratio is not great.  What are your goals?  It seems like you just wanna get big quick, which is the quickest way to phuk yourself up.  Reevaluate your life to where it focuses around your goals, get in your meals, train like a mad man, and then in two years MAYBE think about jumping on.


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## nd3093

What should I do in the mean time? I have already been taking 25MG for the past 5 days now.


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## GSgator

STOP your not going to get anywhere with that. Not sure about PCT maybe somebody else could pitch in on that your young maybe you can recover from tribulus, ZMA, OTC test booster or a low dose of noladex.I don't know 5 days of 25mg a day doesn't seem like much


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## PillarofBalance

Fukk it. Run the dbol cycle 6 weeks. The rest of the plan is solid so you didn't quite go full potato on this one. But get some test for next time will ya!

You have gained water weight btw. That's what the 3 pounds is you gained so far. Takes a good week and a half for it to fire up.


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## nd3093

I have some saying I should continue and some saying I should stop. I've heard of people making gains off a Dbol cycle alone and others who don't properly run PCT lose all their gains and complain. The people telling me to stop, can you offer some insight as to what I should do for PCT? Should I not take anything? Thank you.


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## bvs

Could he jump on some test prop for something like 8 weeks and try and turn it into a decent cycle?


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## RISE

Well for one stop going off of what others have done.  Everyone reacts to chemicals differently, which is why you have seen multiple scenarios regarding dbol only cycles, so what some other people have kept/loss is irrelevant.  5 days ain't shit, I highly doubt your body as shut down it's natural test production bc for one dbol is in and out within hours as two bc you haven't even been on a wk.  you can stop now with no pct or you can continue and you should be ok bc, ironically, your pct was much more thought out then your actual cycle.  If you continue i'd grab some hcg though.


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## PillarofBalance

nd3093 said:


> I have some saying I should continue and some saying I should stop. I've heard of people making gains off of Dbol alone and others who don't properly run PCT lose all their gains and complain. The people telling me to stop, can you offer some insight as to what I should do for PCT? Should I not take anything? Thank you.


No. We aren't going to spoon feed you. It's obvious from this post you just want to hear what you want to hear. What you did was stupid. You either finish what you started or dont. Figure out the pct yourself. It's not rocket science. If you were man enough to swallow that dbol in the first place knowing full well its not the best course, then you can figure out the pct.


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## HDH

PCT is basic and easy, just part of the cycle.

Keeping gains after the cycle depends on your ability to gain and maintain without the use of anabolics. 

Minus the water loss, you should be able to keep what you gain if you know how.

When you put time in and pay your dues, you know how to bodybuild without the drugs. I'm not saying if you do or if you don't. I'm just saying that's how it works.

Stay on the cycle and see where your at a few weeks after PCT, that will tell the tale.

Stick around and keep this thread going.

H


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## DieYoungStrong

Just keep running it now. Yes test should be in every cycle, but years ago, nobody believed that and most are still alive to tell their tales.


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> PCT is basic and easy, just part of the cycle.
> 
> Keeping gains after the cycle depends on your ability to gain and maintain without the use of anabolics.
> 
> Minus the water loss, you should be able to keep what you gain if you know how.
> 
> When you put time in and pay your dues, you know how to bodybuild without the drugs. I'm not saying if you do or if you don't. I'm just saying that's how it works.
> 
> Stay on the cycle and see where your at a few weeks after PCT, that will tell the tale.
> 
> Stick around and keep this thread going.
> 
> H



I understand what you are saying and I should have waited but it is what it is. Should I just stop then?


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## nd3093

I've decided to continue with the cycle... I haven't really retained much water, my strength has already increased a few days after use and I'm already pushing higher numbers for squat/dead lift/bench. I get great pumps at the gym, no side effects whatsoever, and I can lift for more than 2 hours. I mean Dbol was the first ever steroid and that was all that bodybuilders had in those days. People who ****ing complain about making no gains are the ones who don't eat or don't PCT properly. I will keep this thread updated...


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## HDH

Good to hear man.

Eat, eat and eat.

After the cycle as well.

H


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> Good to hear man.
> 
> Eat, eat and eat.
> 
> After the cycle as well.
> 
> H



Thank you for your advice. I am looking into buying a test-booster(Have never tried any because I always thought they were BS) Any recommendations? This is when I am off cycle to aid the PCT process.


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## Megatron28

nd3093 said:


> Thank you for your advice. I am looking into buying a test-booster(Have never tried any because I always thought they were BS) Any recommendations? This is when I am off cycle to aid the PCT process.



Clomifene is the only test booster that works.  Everything else is bunk. You are going to need it running this retarded cycle.


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## nd3093

I really only have Nolva and Armidex


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## nd3093

It's been one week and I'm up about 4-5 pounds. I'm drinking about a gallon of water a day and I don't see too much water retention. I've stayed away from high sodium foods and have been eating healthy clean cooked meals everyday.


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## HDH

4 to 5 lbs in one week is to fast for fat or muscle. It's water and at the rate you are gaining, you will notice in another week. 

It's good that you are paying attention to the diet, that helps with water gain along with drinking a lot of water. 

Sound like legit d-bol so far. Any strength gains?

More than likely with the raise of water, you will notice taking on a different look while pumped up at the gym.

If you gain to fast the dex will help with the water.

H


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## nd3093

I've gained 4-5 pounds so far but it fluctuates. Like I wakeup in the morning and I'm around 182-183 but yeah that is water most-likely.. maybe not but we'll see. It's legit D-bol, I've noticed increased strength and pumps 2-3 days after taking it at 25MG. Yeah I'm taking Armidex every 3 days so far and there's no side effects, keeping me less bloat. I feel good at the gym and yeah I've noticed a different look.


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## Beefcake

I love Dbol, Deca and Test.  Dbol is a great kickstart.  Like everyone said though eat eat eat, lean meats.


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## Wunderpus

I agree with the comment about the bodyfat. Why do a dbol-only cycle when you're not even lean enough to start a bulk, IMHO? 

I would be more inclined to hit the cardo, HIT weight, maybe some T3 and get down to 12% BF or so. Then, you can work up again. Why add one of the #1 bulkers/weight gainers when you could stand to lose a little softness already? Not trying to put you down, just trying to help you achieve your long term goals, not some short term puffiness. 

When in doubt- bulk until you can only see the top 4 abs, then it's time to cut.


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## ToolSteel

Have you never heard of research chems? For ****s sake kid this isn't that difficult. 

It's exactly what pob said. You only hear what you want to. First sign of that was saying everyone tellin you to stop much have never ran a proper pct.


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## nd3093

Beefcake said:


> I love Dbol, Deca and Test.  Dbol is a great kickstart.  Like everyone said though eat eat eat, lean meats.



At 180+ Pounds I'm eating 4 meals a day and taking in over 3200 calories a day. Protein intake is over 200g a day and I'm eating clean healthy meals.


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## nd3093

Wunderpus said:


> I agree with the comment about the bodyfat. Why do a dbol-only cycle when you're not even lean enough to start a bulk, IMHO?
> 
> I would be more inclined to hit the cardo, HIT weight, maybe some T3 and get down to 12% BF or so. Then, you can work up again. Why add one of the #1 bulkers/weight gainers when you could stand to lose a little softness already? Not trying to put you down, just trying to help you achieve your long term goals, not some short term puffiness.
> 
> When in doubt- bulk until you can only see the top 4 abs, then it's time to cut.



I want to put on more size, I want to hit around 200+ pounds and then possibly do a cycle of Tren. I know that half of that weight will be water mass but I haven't really retained much water at all. My sodium intake isn't high and I drink about a gallon of water a day. I'm at 183 currently.


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## GSgator

nd3093 said:


> I want to put on more size, I want to hit around 200+ pounds and then possibly do a cycle of Tren. I know that half of that weight will be water mass but I haven't really retained much water at all. My sodium intake isn't high and I drink about a gallon of water a day. I'm at 183 currently.



Let's slow down here first finish your dbol cycle and do a PCT hopefully you don't deflate keeping most of your gains from a dbol only cycle might be tough like you said your up in 5lb in under a week all of that is water. Your next cycle should be a long ester test and then go from there IMO tren should be used when you are more experienced in cycling.


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## NbleSavage

What Gator said, x2.

Get through the DBol, run your PCT, then read the stickies on here about your first legit cycle (Test only) and plan things out more thoroughly next time.

Sincerely Mate, at your height & weight you've got a lot of room to progress naturally before you'd need to add in gear.


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## nd3093

I'm at 184 Currently after starting last Monday, so that can't definitely be water weight. It doesn't seem like I'm retaining much water at 25mg and taking Armidex every 3 days. We will see after PCT.


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## GSgator

You can't put on solid muscle in a week let alone a few weeks quality keepable  muscle takes months to gain you don't see it but trust me your holding water I'm sure the pumps your experiencing are lasting 24+hrs and that would be the water/bloat your holding buts it's all good bro just continue on and keep busting your ass amd eating good foods and taking your vitamins its a Marathon not a race.


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## ToolSteel

GSgator said:


> You can't put on solid muscle in a week let alone a few weeks quality keepable  muscle takes months to gain you don't see it but trust me your holding water I'm sure the pumps your experiencing are lasting 24+hrs and that would be the water/bloat your holding buts it's all good bro just continue on and keep busting your ass amd eating good foods and taking your vitamins* its a Marathon not a race.*



That's the #1 thing new guys miss imo.


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## HDH

nd3093 said:


> I'm at 184 Currently after starting last Monday, so that can't definitely be water weight. It doesn't seem like I'm retaining much water at 25mg and taking Armidex every 3 days. We will see after PCT.


Ha,ha, the first cycle "it's not water" dream.

:32 (20):

It's not possible to build muscle that fast.

H


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## nd3093

It's probably 80% Muscle but I could be wrong..


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## nd3093

GSgator said:


> You can't put on solid muscle in a week let alone a few weeks quality keepable  muscle takes months to gain you don't see it but trust me your holding water I'm sure the pumps your experiencing are lasting 24+hrs and that would be the water/bloat your holding buts it's all good bro just continue on and keep busting your ass amd eating good foods and taking your vitamins its a Marathon not a race.



I'm lifting 6x a week and eating 5x clean meals a day over 200g protein and 250+ carbs and healthy fats as well. I'm getting 9 hours and sometimes longer rest every night and It's been almost 2 weeks coming up after this weekend. I'm at around 185 currently in 2 weeks. I don't feel water or bloated at all.. but I know I'm holding water obviously. My sodium is low and if I was holding too much water I'd weigh a lot more don't you think?


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## ToolSteel

I'll tell you what. You do a hell of a job convincing yourself.


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## HDH

Livin' the dream  

Ha, ha, just playing man.

H


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## nd3093

It's all a mind game lmfao but I guess we'll wait and see what happens after PCT..


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## nd3093

Just starting week 4. Currently 190 Pounds, 10 pounds in 3 weeks, probably gain another 10 or so by the time I finish. I don't feel bloated but obviously I'm holding water, I'd say a little less than half but who knows. 25mg is excellent, wanted to up it to 50 but I don't want to higher my risk of anything.

Everything is looking good, training 6x a week sleeping for 9-10 hours and have been busting my ass off. Will see after PCT and wait a few more weeks, hopefully make some decent gains.

Going to wait around 2-3 weeks after PCT to get a full blood panel and have my test levels checked as well. Will continue to take fish oil, multivitamin, and milk thistle throughout PCT as well. Will drop milk thistle after PCT but add creatine once I hop off of the dbol.

Have seen significant improvements on my strength, will max out the last week before hopping off to see where I am. Will keep updated.


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## ToolSteel

Don't forget to max 3 weeks later as well.


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## HDH

You also have to keep in mind that when you gain muscle and water, you also gain fat. I know, you're not getting fat. You might be looking at 1/3 or less even though total mass is up.

Keep in mind that adding the creatine will help to hold some of the water.

I made some of my best gains off my first cycle but I didn't know how to keep them. You sound better versed than I was at that point.

The creatine is actually a good idea so the water loss isn't so apparent.

Imagine what you could have done with a 12 week test cycle as opposed to the 5 weeker.

I hope to see you graduate to it.

H


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## nd3093

ToolSteel said:


> Don't forget to max 3 weeks later as well.



Will definitely max 3 weeks after and also try again after finishing PCT probably


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> You also have to keep in mind that when you gain muscle and water, you also gain fat. I know, you're not getting fat. You might be looking at 1/3 or less even though total mass is up.
> 
> Keep in mind that adding the creatine will help to hold some of the water.
> 
> I made some of my best gains off my first cycle but I didn't know how to keep them. You sound better versed than I was at that point.
> 
> The creatine is actually a good idea so the water loss isn't so apparent.
> 
> Imagine what you could have done with a 12 week test cycle as opposed to the 5 weeker.
> 
> I hope to see you graduate to it.
> 
> H



I am deciding to go for an extra week and then run the PCT for 3.5 weeks instead. Will add creatine once I start PCT, do you think I should do it right now as well? I don't want to retain too much water. I haven't really gained fat and I can see all of my abs. I am definitely going to run a Dbol / Test cycle in the future though.


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## HDH

Ha,ha, you've gained some fat and water. Just stick around and learn the ins and outs of how this stuff works. 

It's all good, you don't know until you know. Just keep an open mind to learning and you'll know more than you could have imagined.

It's worth the journey if you really want to be and stay jacked. It's a continual learning process not just the aas but training, diet and our bodies. Learning what works for us as individuals to get the most out of what we do.

You might as well extend the cycle, you've come this far. I would hold off on the creatine until PCT and use it to keep some of the water as it dissipates.

Keep in mind too, the longer you stay on, the more chance of gaining water.

How much do you have to run?

It's very important to keep working hard and stay consistent with everything at the start of PCT so you can keep the gains you've made.

H


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## John Ziegler

After reading through this threads this and thats I think this kid is feeding you a line of bull crap. Am I the only one not buying it ? A buddy had 5 weeks worth of dbol left over ? Thats not left overs to a true roidsman. Its 2 cycles worth of kickstarts. And it goes on and on about pct and how he knows its a shit cycle. Should he stop or continue. There is a word for this hang on I need to google it real quik brb. Ok yep its called Munchausen Syndrome and or fictitious disorder. This thread reads like nails on a chalk board aggregating. I seriously want to go out right now and beat someone sensless and pretent it is this guy.


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## HDH

The thread has been going on for three weeks, not always easy to remember everything, I hit 7 boards daily. I went back and reread the first post and I see the contradiction in having enough for 5 weeks and wanting to now extend it. 

Yes, I will agree that there are plenty of story tellers on the net. I do believe he is running the d-bol. I certainly can't tell you the reason for the contradiction.

It's also possible that he doesn't want to tell his biz to every one for fear of flaming on such a touchy cycle subject and being so young.

I have found in different cases over the years, it's sometimes best to give it some time to get a better handle on the person because sometimes first impressions aren't always the correct ones.

Not saying you're wrong, I just need more consistency showing what you are thinking.

I'm going to continue on but the correct story would be appreciated.

H


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> Ha,ha, you've gained some fat and water. Just stick around and learn the ins and outs of how this stuff works.
> 
> It's all good, you don't know until you know. Just keep an open mind to learning and you'll know more than you could have imagined.
> 
> It's worth the journey if you really want to be and stay jacked. It's a continual learning process not just the aas but training, diet and our bodies. Learning what works for us as individuals to get the most out of what we do.
> 
> You might as well extend the cycle, you've come this far. I would hold off on the creatine until PCT and use it to keep some of the water as it dissipates.
> 
> Keep in mind too, the longer you stay on, the more chance of gaining water.
> 
> How much do you have to run?
> 
> It's very important to keep working hard and stay consistent with everything at the start of PCT so you can keep the gains you've made.
> 
> H



Thanks and yeah I still have a lot of learning to do and I am keeping an open mind. I'm not quite sure what you mean how much do you have to run? And yeah will continue to work my ass off when I start PCT.


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> After reading through this threads this and thats I think this kid is feeding you a line of bull crap. Am I the only one not buying it ? A buddy had 5 weeks worth of dbol left over ? Thats not left overs to a true roidsman. Its 2 cycles worth of kickstarts. And it goes on and on about pct and how he knows its a shit cycle. Should he stop or continue. There is a word for this hang on I need to google it real quik brb. Ok yep its called Munchausen Syndrome and or fictitious disorder. This thread reads like nails on a chalk board aggregating. I seriously want to go out right now and beat someone sensless and pretent it is this guy.



You're so damn toxic, why do you even bother wasting your time. I seriously feel bad for you and I hope you get your punishment. He had enough for 3 weeks and he was able to get me more as well as the PCT and Armidex. He was successful with DBOL only and he's done it for 3 cycles.


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> The thread has been going on for three weeks, not always easy to remember everything, I hit 7 boards daily. I went back and reread the first post and I see the contradiction in having enough for 5 weeks and wanting to now extend it.
> 
> Yes, I will agree that there are plenty of story tellers on the net. I do believe he is running the d-bol. I certainly can't tell you the reason for the contradiction.
> 
> It's also possible that he doesn't want to tell his biz to every one for fear of flaming on such a touchy cycle subject and being so young.
> 
> I have found in different cases over the years, it's sometimes best to give it some time to get a better handle on the person because sometimes first impressions aren't always the correct ones.
> 
> Not saying you're wrong, I just need more consistency showing what you are thinking.
> 
> I'm going to continue on but the correct story would be appreciated.
> 
> H



I'm not feeding anyone any Bull crap, I actually am on the Dbol and wouldn't be wasting my time on this thread if I wasn't. Sorry for leading you to come up with that conclusion.


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## HDH

Keep posting man. If I didn't think you weren't doing what you're saying I wouldn't waste my time.

In the post before I was basically asking if you had more to run than the extra week.

You've gotta understand the skepticism of some fellas here. Lots of guys telling stories and not truths.

Your consistency will show your determination.

H


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## nd3093

Yeah they are 50mg pills too and I cut them in half and he also bought some more for his next cycle and I was able to get some more from him. I will keep this updated. Thanks


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## John Ziegler

Take a picture of 2 dbol 2 armidex and 2 nolva together next to your toothbrush and post it up.


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## ToolSteel

That's actually not a bad idea.


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> You're so damn toxic, why do you even bother wasting your time. I seriously feel bad for you and I hope you get your punishment. He had enough for 3 weeks and he was able to get me more as well as the PCT and Armidex. He was successful with DBOL only and he's done it for 3 cycles.





Zeigler said:


> Take a picture of 2 dbol 2 armidex and 2 nolva together next to your toothbrush and post it up.





ToolSteel said:


> That's actually not a bad idea.



He's been on since I saw the light on. He's full of bollock's 

Excuse me while I go out and snap an innocent bystanders pencil neck


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## nd3093

I got you and I'll give you my middle finger too hold on


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## nd3093

http://i.imgur.com/immFaQV.jpg


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## HDH

Ha, ha, I almost PMed you and said to flip him off if you send the pic.

I almost died until I opened it up and you didn't. Although the pic says it.

Post on brotha...

H


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## HDH

Zeigler said:


> Take a picture of 2 dbol 2 armidex and 2 nolva together next to your toothbrush and post it up.



That was fun.

I hope we can put this to rest my man.

H


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> Take a picture of 2 dbol 2 armidex and 2 nolva together next to your toothbrush and post it up.



**** a toothbrush I put your name and my middle finger for you. Don't always assume shit either.


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> Ha, ha, I almost PMed you and said to flip him off if you send the pic.
> 
> I almost died until I opened it up and you didn't. Although the pic says it.
> 
> Post on brotha...
> 
> H



I was going to! But I'm not going to be childish like him. I could care less and will do. Thank you.


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## HDH

nd for the W!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:32 (1):

H


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## John Ziegler

HDH said:


> nd for the W!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> :32 (1):
> 
> H



Not so fast for the W I said I want a picture of 2 pink dbol tabs 2 nolva tabs & 2 adex tabs next to his tooth brush. That picture there doesnt prove shit. The toothbrush and the pink tabs is going to prove that this is actually going on in real time.


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## nd3093

Oh sorry you actually want to see my the pills lmao that's easy I just pour them out of the packet right? Hold on let me try that Brb


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> Oh sorry you actually want to see my the pills lmao that's easy I just pour them out of the packet right? Hold on let me try that Brb



Ya next to the toothbrush


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## Beedeezy

Anyone wanna place bets?


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## John Ziegler

Beedeezy said:


> Anyone wanna place bets?



I wouldn't take the bet. He almost has me convinced. It still won't erase the fact that he's a knucklehead.


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## nd3093

http://i.imgur.com/3C5zOnN.jpg

maybe next time I should post a picture when I make a thread so I don't get ignorant people like you talking shit.


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> http://i.imgur.com/3C5zOnN.jpg
> 
> maybe next time I should post a picture when I make a thread so I don't get ignorant people like you talking shit.



Maybe next time you should devise a cycle plan so you don't look like a fool. What should I do I'm so confused ? Like a little girl that has her skirt blowing up in the wind.


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> I wouldn't take the bet. He almost has me convinced. It still won't erase the fact that he's a knucklehead.



The only knucklehead is you coming in here acting like you the shit when no one cares


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## nd3093

I'm going to let you have your fun. Just going to act like you aren't in here. Keep wasting your time knucklehead. I don't understand why you are so mad.


----------



## Beedeezy

Well, he does in fact get the WIN. 
Can we all agree, you are a little toxic Ziggy.


----------



## Beedeezy

Nd, all bullshit aside. I hope you stick around and next time use the information the bros have given you. There are a bunch of super knowledgeable guys in here that will help, they may not spoon feed it to you though; you'll likely catch shit from everyone also. Take it with a grain of salt. 
I'm not the one to answer questions, as I seem to have a new one everyday. 
Good luck brother.


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## nd3093

Beedeezy said:


> Nd, all bullshit aside. I hope you stick around and next time use the information the bros have given you. There are a bunch of super knowledgeable guys in here that will help, they may not spoon feed it to you though; you'll likely catch shit from everyone also. Take it with a grain of salt.
> I'm not the one to answer questions, as I seem to have a new one everyday.
> Good luck brother.



Thanks man, that's much appreciated. I'll stick around and yeah I still have a lot to learn. Good luck to you brother.


----------



## John Ziegler

Beedeezy said:


> Well, he does in fact get the WIN.
> Can we all agree, you are a little toxic Ziggy.



If you want to call it a win. To each his own. The story read so ludicrous that I found it hard to believe. Plus the kid was so damn ignorant. Lets not forget the earlier readings just because he actually has the product.


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## HDH

Zeigler said:


> If you want to call it a win. To each his own. The story read so ludicrous that I found it hard to believe. Plus the kid was so damn ignorant. Lets not forget the earlier readings just because he actually has the product.



Good ole Zig is back. Gonna argue up to the end even when there's nothing left to argue.

If someone tells you to throw up a pic of something are you going to do it because they don't believe you?

H


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## PillarofBalance

This isn't the misc... we don't do spoon pics here. Gtfo

How is this little cycle going btw?


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## ToolSteel

It's not that none of us agree with zeig. It's just that we're all just patiently waiting for the gain train derailment


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## GSgator

That Dbol looks tasty bud.


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## Seeker

Got to hand it to nd3093, you've been a trooper handling yourself with Ziegler. Lol this thread is entertaining.


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## deejeff442

I had some time to waste so i read the whole thread.you can tell he is still a kid.the kid that works for me wants to try a cycle and babbles the same way.cant tell him anything.by the way if you got more dbol why didnt you just get some test with it? Would have turned out to be a decent 1st cycle.


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## ToolSteel

Honestly it's still not too late. At least then it'd be easier coming off.


----------



## nd3093

PillarofBalance said:


> This isn't the misc... we don't do spoon pics here. Gtfo
> 
> How is this little cycle going btw?



I'm up about 10 pounds or so and I'm about to be done with week 4 and starting week 5 on Monday.


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## PillarofBalance

nd3093 said:


> I'm up about 10 pounds or so and I'm about to be done with week 4 and starting week 5 on Monday.


Moving bigger weights? More volume? Any sides?


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## nd3093

ToolSteel said:


> It's not that none of us agree with zeig. It's just that we're all just patiently waiting for the gain train derailment



We'll see man. Can't really say much until I finish PCT and see what happens from that point on. I'll continue training just as hard and eating right even during PCT. I would love to add test but there's no one that I could get it from besides ordering it online from Geneza Pharmaceuticals and that process will take a month or so if not more. I still have so much to learn and more research to do and learning more about pinning and how to do it safely. I plan on waiting double the amount of time of this 6 week cycle + 3.5 weeks before running Test / Dbol together. Planning on running 25-50MG of Dbol for 4 weeks to kickstart and then adding test.


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## nd3093

PillarofBalance said:


> Moving bigger weights? More volume? Any sides?



I haven't noticed any side effects, no high blood pressure, no break-outs. I'm pushing bigger weights and am able to do more reps and I can train intensively for almost 2 hours.


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## ECKSRATED

Zeigler u need to calm the fukk down. U are annoying man. Let the guy do what he came here to do. U act like you're some pro veteran or something but from what I remember your just some new guy too. Chill the fukk out.


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## nd3093

ECKSRATED said:


> Zeigler u need to calm the fukk down. U are annoying man. Let the guy do what he came here to do. U act like you're some pro veteran or something but from what I remember your just some new guy too. Chill the fukk out.



Thank you brother


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## John Ziegler

ECKSRATED said:


> Zeigler u need to calm the fukk down. U are annoying man. Let the guy do what he came here to do. U act like you're some pro veteran or something but from what I remember your just some new guy too. Chill the fukk out.









[/url][/IMG]


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## HDH

Back to our regularly scheduled program...

:32 (20):

H


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## HDH

nd3093 said:


> I haven't noticed any side effects, no high blood pressure, no break-outs. I'm pushing bigger weights and am able to do more reps and I can train intensively for almost 2 hours.



Keep in mind that an intense 2 hour training session will burn up a lot of cals. Make sure you are getting extra in every day so you don't cheat yourself.

How many cals you take in throughout the day?

If you can't say off the top of your head, it just might not be enough.

Keep in mind what you have gained so far is a good bit of water weather you think so or not.

If you stick around, you will learn quite a bit but you will have to keep an open mind.

H


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> Keep in mind that an intense 2 hour training session will burn up a lot of cals. Make sure you are getting extra in every day so you don't cheat yourself.
> 
> How many cals you take in throughout the day?
> 
> If you can't say off the top of your head, it just might not be enough.
> 
> Keep in mind what you have gained so far is a good bit of water weather you think so or not.
> 
> If you stick around, you will learn quite a bit but you will have to keep an open mind.
> 
> H



I am eating 3500 calories a day currently, over 220g protein and carbs anywhere from 250-300. I am around 189-190 pounds currently and I have 2 weeks left. I know that I've gained water but how much is a good bit?


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> I am eating 3500 calories a day currently, over 220g protein and carbs anywhere from 250-300. I am around 189-190 pounds currently and I have 2 weeks left. I know that I've gained water but how much is a good bit?



Try to focus less on the weight scale and more on measuring tape. Im not saying eat less. Keep eating! Ive seen guys weigh 190 and look 210. Dont get ahead of yourself and already start worrying about what you can or cant keep. Chances are you werent at your natural potential prior to the cycle so you can  & probably will stay larger than you were.  Do the best pct you can when the time comes. No one keeps it all unless they stay on test and it sounds like you will be doing this more than once. Enjoy the ride.


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## deejeff442

Unless you are doing cardio with lifting i never understood why it would take 2 hours to train.i get in and get at it hard.chest maybe 18 to 22 sets.done in less than an hour.same with the rest.


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## John Ziegler

deejeff442 said:


> Unless you are doing cardio with lifting i never understood why it would take 2 hours to train.i get in and get at it hard.chest maybe 18 to 22 sets.done in less than an hour.same with the rest.



On dbol I would be in there at least 2 hours. Just sayin


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## deejeff442

How many sets do you do in 2 hrs?  My training goes like this chest .back.arms.delts with traps and legs.each thier own day.train 3 on 1 off usually when on gear.even when i was on dbol after an hour i was spent and shaking.


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## John Ziegler

deejeff442 said:


> How many sets do you do in 2 hrs?  My training goes like this chest .back.arms.delts with traps and legs.each thier own day.train 3 on 1 off usually when on gear.even when i was on dbol after an hour i was spent and shaking.



I always change it up. Lately I've been doing bench squat and deadlifts samw day 3 days later ride bike 3 miles come home and do straight bar curls calfs this and that's. 45 years old 511 250 20% bf off cycle.


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## deejeff442

I will be 46 end of the month which seems to be here already.i am 5 foot 10 180 pounds now but i work concrete and lose over 20 pounds every summer then get it back in the winter.getting older the juice really helps.wish i could get through a summer and only lose 10 pounds


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> Try to focus less on the weight scale and more on measuring tape. Im not saying eat less. Keep eating! Ive seen guys weigh 190 and look 210. Dont get ahead of yourself and already start worrying about what you can or cant keep. Chances are you werent at your natural potential prior to the cycle so you can  & probably will stay larger than you were.  Do the best pct you can when the time comes. No one keeps it all unless they stay on test and it sounds like you will be doing this more than once. Enjoy the ride.



Thank you for your kind comment.


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## deejeff442

Didnt you say you eat 3500 calories a day? That seems very low.right now i aim for at least 5000 .


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## nd3093

I don't do cardio at all because I don't want to burn more calories than I need to since I'm lifting for a lot longer. I've honestly been training 6x a week but I'm going to be going everyday since I am getting plenty of sleep and only focusing on the gym. I have nothing to set me back until university starts so I feel recovered the next day. During PCT I am going to be going 5x a week and incorporating Layne Norton's PHAT Routine and see how that works out. I'm open to any suggestions as well.


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## nd3093

deejeff442 said:


> Didnt you say you eat 3500 calories a day? That seems very low.right now i aim for at least 5000 .



Seems a bit too high plus you're doing cardio aren't you? I've looked at a few weight gain calculators and they have always been in the range of 3000-3500. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Seeker

nd3093 said:


> Seems a bit too high plus you're doing cardio aren't you? I've looked at a few weight gain calculators and they have always been in the range of 3000-3500. Correct me if I'm wrong.



At 180lbs 3500 cals should be plenty enough. You should be monitoring your cals with your gains though. As your weight goes up you do need to reevaluate your calorie intake.


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## nd3093

Seeker said:


> At 180lbs 3500 cals should be plenty enough. You should be monitoring your cals with your gains though. As your weight goes up you do need to reevaluate your calorie intake.



I started at 3000 at 180 but now I am around 188-189 so do you think 3500 calories is enough or should I up it to 4000?


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## Seeker

nd3093 said:


> I started at 3000 at 180 but now I am around 188-189 so do you think 3500 calories is enough or should I up it to 4000?



You should be ok with those cals. Only you can know that. Do a TDEE,  BMR. I'm 258 and I'm barely at 5000 cals.


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## nd3093

Seeker said:


> You should be ok with those cals. Only you can know that. Do a TDEE,  BMR. I'm 258 and I'm barely at 5000 cals.



Thanks man! My BMR is about 1976.64 and using the Harris Benedict Formula I plugged in 1.725 for my daily activity. It comes up to around 3400 calories so I'll take in a few extra just to make sure I'm getting enough. Some more peanut butter will help


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## HDH

nd3093 said:


> I am eating 3500 calories a day currently, over 220g protein and carbs anywhere from 250-300. I am around 189-190 pounds currently and I have 2 weeks left. I know that I've gained water but how much is a good bit?



I can't really tell you how much water you have gained. What I do know is 8 to 9lbs of muscle just isn't possible in that time frame. When you gain water, you're just not going to see it sub Q. Water will be gained in the muscle. You have to account for glycogen stores being filled by the jump in carbs as well. It's easy to gain 5 to 7lbs just from a big boost in carbs.

If you don't know anything about glycogen stores being filled, run a search and that will help answer some of you weight question.



nd3093 said:


> I don't do cardio at all because I don't want to burn more calories than I need to since I'm lifting for a lot longer. I've honestly been training 6x a week but I'm going to be going everyday since I am getting plenty of sleep and only focusing on the gym. I have nothing to set me back until university starts so I feel recovered the next day. During PCT I am going to be going 5x a week and incorporating Layne Norton's PHAT Routine and see how that works out. I'm open to any suggestions as well.



Sounds like your workouts are cardio in itself. You can train that long and hard with the correct recovery help but you will need mucho cals. You already described the whole two hours as pretty intense. It's good that you are feeling recovered the next day. Youth will play a big part in that. I run a bunch of shit at my age to help. I'm 43 and running GH has been the biggest factor for me. I can run 2 hour session and feel pretty good. 

Keep in mind that it could still catch up with you. Like say a longer 12 or 14 weeker might give you problems and you might find that cutting back a little helps. You are going through a very important learning process right now. Pay close attention to how you feel physically and mentally and at what point you feel any changes. Like how many weeks in, intensity levels, what types of food you are eating.

It's how we learn to grow as efficiently as possible. Trial and error. Don't be afraid to switch a few thing up if you start having problems.



nd3093 said:


> Seems a bit too high plus you're doing cardio aren't you? I've looked at a few weight gain calculators and they have always been in the range of 3000-3500. Correct me if I'm wrong.



It's important to run the diet while training first so you know what it takes for the best gains. If the calculator says 3000 to 3500 you should run it first to see where the scale goes and get the cals nailed down that you need to grow before you start so you can get the most out of the gear, especially on a short cycle such as this.

What did it say about those cals? 

Maintenance or gain?

 If gain, how many lbs per week?



nd3093 said:


> I started at 3000 at 180 but now I am around 188-189 so do you think 3500 calories is enough or should I up it to 4000?



This is actually a good question. The hard part about answering it though is we don't really know how much weight you've put on from the food. 

I know your probably tired of hearing it but as a little refresher, Test would have been the best option for you to have started with.

See, what you have done is started off with the most notorious aas for water gain. Since this is your first cycle, you didn't know what to expect so you don't really know what the diet is doing because of the quick water gain. A moderate ester for test like e or c wouldn't have been a factor in water weigh right at the beginning.

If I had to guess by your routine length, intensity level (as you described) and your go get em approach to your training, you are a calorie burning machine. I've known lots of low weight guys that need lots of cals for growth.

I would venture to say yes for the 4000cals.

It's almost over though.

H


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## HDH

nd3093 said:


> Thanks man! My BMR is about 1976.64 and using the Harris Benedict Formula I plugged in 1.725 for my daily activity. It comes up to around 3400 calories so I'll take in a few extra just to make sure I'm getting enough. Some more peanut butter will help



Keep in mind that 500cals = 1lb a week.

1000cals = 2lbs a week.

H


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## GSgator

Damn 2 hours lifting 6x a week must be nice to be young and nothing major on your plate (like a full time ball busting job) lol. How do you guys lift that long. My third  exersices in on what ever muscle I'm working out is already toast the other 2 exersises I'm just winging it on high tensions exercises like Ropes or peck deck flys. Are you working out the entire body? I see guys running every maching in the gym for a muscle group and those guys seem to be the ones that don't grow past a certain point just remember grasshopper your muscles grow outside the gym that's why recovery time is just a important is the workout itself.


----------



## nd3093

HDH said:


> Keep in mind that 500cals = 1lb a week.
> 
> 1000cals = 2lbs a week.
> 
> H



At 188, 5'10, Age 22 - I plugged in my normal daily activities as Sedentary (Spend most of the day sitting) Exercise 7 times a week, Put 120 minutes per day for exercise and I do train intensively but I don't sweat a lot or breath very heavily. From all that information the TDEE calculator gave me a BMR of 1861 Calories/Day and TDEE at 3040 Calories/Day. I used another calculator which was the BMR one and it gave me a BMR of 1976.64 and plugged in 1.725 (If you are very active) and it gives me 3400 calories.

This is using a different method:
Activity factor: 1.725 X BMR of 1861 = 3210.225 calories
Additional calorie requirement for weight gain is 2 X 188 (Weight) = 376
3210.225 + 376 = 3586.225

I know that I'm holding water but I won't know how much until I start PCT.


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## deejeff442

Just watch the over training.years ago i lifted 6 days a week heavy.i went to the gym one day to do back.i felt great.then i could do one arm rows using a wrist strap 150 pounds.i couldnt even do 50 pounds.i got pretty scared.so i took a solid week off and ate like crazy and got a ton of sleep.when i got back i was even stronger .i mean alot stronger all around.point being like gator said it will catch up to you.i would get the feeling on off days like i was lazy or slacking.but now i know its needed and i will add an extra meal on off days.i have never and i mean never did cardio.i am a true hard gainer.never been over 15 percent bf even with mcdonalds food 3 times a day.some say i am lucky i can eat what ever i want and stay lean even when i put on 20 pounds over the winter.i say my jaw gets tired of chewing.


----------



## HDH

GSgator said:


> Damn 2 hours lifting 6x a week must be nice to be young and nothing major on your plate (like a full time ball busting job) lol. How do you guys lift that long. My third  exersices in on what ever muscle I'm working out is already toast the other 2 exersises I'm just winging it on high tensions exercises like Ropes or peck deck flys. Are you working out the entire body? I see guys running every maching in the gym for a muscle group and those guys seem to be the ones that don't grow past a certain point just remember grasshopper your muscles grow outside the gym that's why recovery time is just a important is the workout itself.



Each person is different. The trick is to learn what your body and mind can handle. The rest is just fueling it for growth. We grow differently, some guys grow excellent off of heavy, less reps and less time in the gym. I'm a pretty intense guy. I'm fast paced and always need something to do. I like pounding it out, breathing heavy and gasping for breath. But I have learned my body can handle it.

As long as we are feeling recovered, it's just a matter getting the correct cals for growing even if the amounts are insane. I run mostly tri and giant sets (4-5). I burn the shit out of cals. It allows me to get more food in which in turn, allows for that much more nutrients. Add in some cardio and it makes for a really good conditioned look.

Back to the basics, diet is key and maintaining enough cals to grow. Of course I didn't just jump in there and train like that successfully, it was a lot of trial and error and being very aware of how my body was responding to everything, many adjustments were made along the way. I like to ride the edge as well so keeping things tweeked  in accordance to how I'm feeling goes a long way.



nd3093 said:


> At 188, 5'10, Age 22 - I plugged in my normal daily activities as Sedentary (Spend most of the day sitting) Exercise 7 times a week, Put 120 minutes per day for exercise and I do train intensively but I don't sweat a lot or breath very heavily. From all that information the TDEE calculator gave me a BMR of 1861 Calories/Day and TDEE at 3040 Calories/Day. I used another calculator which was the BMR one and it gave me a BMR of 1976.64 and plugged in 1.725 (If you are very active) and it gives me 3400 calories.
> 
> This is using a different method:
> Activity factor: 1.725 X BMR of 1861 = 3210.225 calories
> Additional calorie requirement for weight gain is 2 X 188 (Weight) = 376
> 3210.225 + 376 = 3586.225
> 
> I know that I'm holding water but I won't know how much until I start PCT.



Gotta ask again, what does the 3400cals mean?

Is that what you use up in a day?

If gain, how many LBS per week?

You have to keep in mind that this just gives you a base to start from. You have to run those cals for 2 or 3 weeks to see what they do. It doesn't know your metabolism, the rate you burn and people's ideas of activity levels vary from person to person.

It's good for a starting point but it's just a starting point. Could be accurate, could be off. You don't know until you put it into action.

H


----------



## John Ziegler

GSgator said:


> Damn 2 hours lifting 6x a week must be nice to be young and nothing major on your plate (like a full time ball busting job) lol. How do you guys lift that long. My third  exersices in on what ever muscle I'm working out is already toast the other 2 exersises I'm just winging it on high tensions exercises like Ropes or peck deck flys. Are you working out the entire body? I see guys running every maching in the gym for a muscle group and those guys seem to be the ones that don't grow past a certain point just remember grasshopper your muscles grow outside the gym that's why recovery time is just a important is the workout itself.



I have been a dishwasher for the past 2 years and just started a new job as a dishwasher in one of the top rated restaurant's in Austin. Im doing dead lifts squats military presses curls and forearms for 8 to 9 hours 4 days a week. Paid strength training, you young guys wanting to build up your physiques get a job washing dishes in a kitchen. Its an awesome workout in a kitchen lol its a perfect anabolic invironment. 15 per hour 15 dollar plate per shift and im eating this and thats all night long.


----------



## nd3093

HDH said:


> Each person is different. The trick is to learn what your body and mind can handle. The rest is just fueling it for growth. We grow differently, some guys grow excellent off of heavy, less reps and less time in the gym. I'm a pretty intense guy. I'm fast paced and always need something to do. I like pounding it out, breathing heavy and gasping for breath. But I have learned my body can handle it.
> 
> As long as we are feeling recovered, it's just a matter getting the correct cals for growing even if the amounts are insane. I run mostly tri and giant sets (4-5). I burn the shit out of cals. It allows me to get more food in which in turn, allows for that much more nutrients. Add in some cardio and it makes for a really good conditioned look.
> 
> Back to the basics, diet is key and maintaining enough cals to grow. Of course I didn't just jump in there and train like that successfully, it was a lot of trial and error and being very aware of how my body was responding to everything, many adjustments were made along the way. I like to ride the edge as well so keeping things tweeked  in accordance to how I'm feeling goes a long way.
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta ask again, what does the 3400cals mean?
> 
> Is that what you use up in a day?
> 
> If gain, how many LBS per week?
> 
> You have to keep in mind that this just gives you a base to start from. You have to run those cals for 2 or 3 weeks to see what they do. It doesn't know your metabolism, the rate you burn and people's ideas of activity levels vary from person to person.
> 
> It's good for a starting point but it's just a starting point. Could be accurate, could be off. You don't know until you put it into action.
> 
> H



I started with 3000 daily intake at 180 pounds and I've gained 9 pounds so far but I've upped it to 3500 as of last week. Seems to be working and that's how much I need to gain weight. I've put on 2 pounds per week with those calories. I don't know how much water weight I'm carrying to be exact but I'll know once I'm off. Starting week 5 tomorrow I want to go hard these last 2 weeks and eat close to 4k and just train hard. Taking today off as well.


----------



## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> I have been a dishwasher for the past 2 years and just started a new job as a dishwasher in one of the top rated restaurant's in Austin. Im doing dead lifts squats military presses curls and forearms for 8 to 9 hours 4 days a week. Paid strength training, you young guys wanting to build up your physiques get a job washing dishes in a kitchen. Its an awesome workout in a kitchen lol its a perfect anabolic invironment. 15 per hour 15 dollar plate per shift and im eating this and thats all night long.



I'd love doing that. I actually want to be a server like my brother. $14 an hour and the food is high end and he gets to eat as much as he wants. Just serving food at a banquet.


----------



## nd3093

deejeff442 said:


> Just watch the over training.years ago i lifted 6 days a week heavy.i went to the gym one day to do back.i felt great.then i could do one arm rows using a wrist strap 150 pounds.i couldnt even do 50 pounds.i got pretty scared.so i took a solid week off and ate like crazy and got a ton of sleep.when i got back i was even stronger .i mean alot stronger all around.point being like gator said it will catch up to you.i would get the feeling on off days like i was lazy or slacking.but now i know its needed and i will add an extra meal on off days.i have never and i mean never did cardio.i am a true hard gainer.never been over 15 percent bf even with mcdonalds food 3 times a day.some say i am lucky i can eat what ever i want and stay lean even when i put on 20 pounds over the winter.i say my jaw gets tired of chewing.



I lift heavy but also a mixture of hypertrophy as well. I will definitely keep an eye out and I am only over training just because I'm on the Dbol + I'm getting plenty of sleep and I don't do anything during the day besides going to the gym until school starts. Planning to go 4-5 a week when I'm off.


----------



## deejeff442

When that happened i wasnt on gear.even so i beat up every musle group so bad i still wont train a muscle more then every 6 days.but i am older now .if i were you i would do 5 days being so young


----------



## HDH

nd3093 said:


> I started with 3000 daily intake at 180 pounds and I've gained 9 pounds so far but I've upped it to 3500 as of last week. Seems to be working and that's how much I need to gain weight. I've put on 2 pounds per week with those calories. I don't know how much water weight I'm carrying to be exact but I'll know once I'm off. Starting week 5 tomorrow I want to go hard these last 2 weeks and eat close to 4k and just train hard. Taking today off as well.



More than half will be from the d-bol and glycogen stores.

Have you seen any of the advertisements slim fast had a year or so ago for a fast 5?

They guarantee you will lose 5lbs the first week by following their plan. What people don't know is by eliminating the carbs, glycogen stores are depleted (water) and weight is lost like they say, just not fat.

Same thing here, you up those carbs and gain extra water through stores. You lower the carbs and you lower the stores.

This doesn't even count the water from the d-bol. You get on the creatine and keep carbs high, you will keep some size. The determining factor won't be the last day of PCT but the few weeks to follow as you try to maintain or even continue to keep growing. 

Keep shoveling that food down my man.

H


----------



## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> I'd love doing that. I actually want to be a server like my brother. $14 an hour and the food is high end and he gets to eat as much as he wants. Just serving food at a banquet.



I have worked big catering events at the Lyndon B Johnson library. The last one I worked was a couple months ago put on for Hank Arron. It was a 5 hour gig, I ate about uh half a pound of smoked salmon, half a pound of grilled chicken about 20 of the empanadas fresh fruit and cheese cake. Then took home about a pound of fish and chicken leftover from the event. The catering gig is 20 bucks an hour plus the leftover perks. Not a bad gig for someone that only spent 3 hours getting a food handlers permit that cost 10 dollars a year.

Op hows the cycle coming along  ?


----------



## ToolSteel

When I was running my carb cycling diet I'd gain ~10 every weekend and lose ~12-13 during the week.


----------



## nd3093

HDH said:


> More than half will be from the d-bol and glycogen stores.
> 
> Have you seen any of the advertisements slim fast had a year or so ago for a fast 5?
> 
> They guarantee you will lose 5lbs the first week by following their plan. What people don't know is by eliminating the carbs, glycogen stores are depleted (water) and weight is lost like they say, just not fat.
> 
> Same thing here, you up those carbs and gain extra water through stores. You lower the carbs and you lower the stores.
> 
> This doesn't even count the water from the d-bol. You get on the creatine and keep carbs high, you will keep some size. The determining factor won't be the last day of PCT but the few weeks to follow as you try to maintain or even continue to keep growing.
> 
> Keep shoveling that food down my man.
> 
> H



Ok thanks! So I'll lower my carb intake for these last 2 weeks so I don't retain as much water than I need to but I'll up them as I start on the first day of PCT and add creatine as well to keep some size. Thank you.


----------



## nd3093

ToolSteel said:


> When I was running my carb cycling diet I'd gain ~10 every weekend and lose ~12-13 during the week.



Impressive!


----------



## HDH

nd3093 said:


> Ok thanks! So I'll lower my carb intake for these last 2 weeks so I don't retain as much water than I need to but I'll up them as I start on the first day of PCT and add creatine as well to keep some size. Thank you.



Just keep pounding the food down. You don't want to drop any carbs to drop water because it will hinder gains if you lower the cal count. Don't worry about the water till it's over. Everyone gains like this on dbol and glycogen stores. That's why guys that stay on don't do the up and down.

And I'm in no way suggesting that you stay on. You are still young and need to be recovering.

H


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> Just keep pounding the food down. You don't want to drop any carbs to drop water because it will hinder gains if you lower the cal count. Don't worry about the water till it's over. Everyone gains like this on dbol and glycogen stores. That's why guys that stay on don't do the up and down.
> 
> And I'm in no way suggesting that you stay on. You are still young and need to be recovering.
> 
> H



Ok thanks!


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> I have worked big catering events at the Lyndon B Johnson library. The last one I worked was a couple months ago put on for Hank Arron. It was a 5 hour gig, I ate about uh half a pound of smoked salmon, half a pound of grilled chicken about 20 of the empanadas fresh fruit and cheese cake. Then took home about a pound of fish and chicken leftover from the event. The catering gig is 20 bucks an hour plus the leftover perks. Not a bad gig for someone that only spent 3 hours getting a food handlers permit that cost 10 dollars a year.
> 
> Op hows the cycle coming along  ?



On week 5. We will see what happens as I start PCT and the following weeks after that.


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> On week 5. We will see what happens as I start PCT and the following weeks after that.



The key to a good pct is a positive attitude. We already know whats going to happen your gunna take the clomid and nolva, get all horny bang your girlfriend till shes blue in the face and keep eating like you have been. Understood ? 

In November your going to start up a 14 week cycle of test c 500mg per week with a 2 week dbol kick start. You'll be an arrogant walking giant for New Years Eve.


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> The key to a good pct is a positive attitude. We already know whats going to happen your gunna take the clomid and nolva, get all horny bang your girlfriend till shes blue in the face and keep eating like you have been. Understood ?
> 
> In November your going to start up a 14 week cycle of test c 500mg per week with a 2 week dbol kick start. You'll be an arrogant walking giant for New Years Eve.



Planning on it! Will continue to do my same routine and keep eating as much as I am currently. Haven't really noticed any changes to my sex drive or anything but I am most definitely suppressed, not sure if I am fully shutdown though.. My balls have remained the same ^.^ Planning on experimenting with anavar / test for my next cycle but I have to do some research on it. If not, I will just do a 2-3 week dbol kick start and run test.


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## nd3093

The dbol has been good so far. I'm around 11-12 pounds up. I know about half is water weight but it will be nice to gain at least 5 or so pounds of muscle but we will see what happens. Just going to continue grinding! Will keep updated.


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## nd3093

Week 5 almost complete - currently 13-14 pounds up. Flat bench max went from 265 to almost 315. Squat max at 375, and dead lift is 455 from 405. 25mg seems a bit too low, but it is still potent and the strength on it is insane (I know that I won't be able to push as much when I'm off but I know I'll be stronger than I was before running it). The pumps are great but I haven't really felt any back or any pumps that are painful or hurt.

Planning to execute PCT like this - 3.5 weeks of Nolva - 10 days of 40mg and then 15 days of 20mg. I don't have Clomid and Nolva has significantly less sides than Clomid and it has worked for my friend.

Adding creatine + looking to buy some pre-workout supplement to help get me through my workouts. Suggestions are much appreciated for the pre-workout if any of you take any.


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## nd3093

Need some thoughts/advice for an Anavar cutting cycle as well for those who have ran it before. I want to drop down body fat to around 10% and also get cut. I'm looking around and most are recommending to stack it with test.


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## deejeff442

Cutting cycle? Hell winter is coming thats bulking season.time to put on 25 pounds over the winter.i suggest take some time off a few months then do a test deca and dbol cycle.the fat will melt off if the training and diet are on


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## HDH

Another oral only?

Time to put the big boy pants on.

You got advice because you were already running this...

H


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## PillarofBalance

nd3093 said:


> Need some thoughts/advice for an Anavar cutting cycle as well for those who have ran it before. I want to drop down body fat to around 10% and also get cut. I'm looking around and most are recommending to stack it with test.


Dude...

Always stack anything else with test...

Did you miss that point earlier?

In the event you get wise take a look at the sticky in the aas cycles forum for first cycles.


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> Another oral only?
> 
> Time to put the big boy pants on.
> 
> You got advice because you were already running this...
> 
> H



Wouldn't be an oral only. Something I would use with test and a dbol kick-start. I still want to research more but a cycle like 4 weeks of Dbol at 25mg along with test and then to solidify my gains and use Anavar for the last 5-6 weeks. Still want to research more.


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## nd3093

PillarofBalance said:


> Dude...
> 
> Always stack anything else with test...
> 
> Did you miss that point earlier?
> 
> In the event you get wise take a look at the sticky in the aas cycles forum for first cycles.



Yep, everyone made it very clear. I wouldn't run it alone but I wanted some suggestions on how to use it.


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## PillarofBalance

nd3093 said:


> Yep, everyone made it very clear. I wouldn't run it alone but I wanted some suggestions on how to use it.


Var you can run longer than most other orals. Kick the cycle off for 6 or 8 weeks at 100mg of var.  Pumps will be insane.


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## HDH

Var is pretty mild shit as far as the sides go but you pay $$ for that comfort as well.

Tough to get good var unless you've been around.

H


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## nd3093

PillarofBalance said:


> Var you can run longer than most other orals. Kick the cycle off for 6 or 8 weeks at 100mg of var.  Pumps will be insane.



100 would be way too much for the price otherwise I would. I was thinking 6 weeks at 60mg along with test.


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## nd3093

Week 5 almost done. What I've noticed recently is not being able to sleep and when I wakeup I feel hungry. I drink a protein shake right before going to sleep that includes 1 in a half scoops of whey protein and I mix it with milk.


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> Need some thoughts/advice for an Anavar cutting cycle as well for those who have ran it before. I want to drop down body fat to around 10% and also get cut. I'm looking around and most are recommending to stack it with test.



14 weeks test e or c at 500mg per week. Thats your next cycle dont get me irritated again sir.


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## GSgator

nd3093 said:


> 100 would be way too much for the price otherwise I would. I was thinking 6 weeks at 60mg along with test.



60mg of var would treat you very well that's usually were I run it as well.


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## John Ziegler

GSgator said:


> 60mg of var would treat you very well that's usually were I run it as well.



He has plenty of time in the future to try this as and that. He needs to start with the basic fundamentals. Test only!


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## Yaya

What zeigler is trying to say is.... u should never run test alone and take as much anavar as humanly possibly

I personally think zeigler is a severe abuser of anabolic steroids


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## nd3093

Last week - going everyday this week got plenty of rest on Sunday. 25mg is a good dose but I would have pushed more with 50 but I didn't want to risk the sides. Next cycle in about 14-15 weeks I will kick start with 4 weeks of dbol at 25mg and run 500mg of test for 12 or so weeks. I want to incorporate Anavar for cutting in a later cycle.

Still about 11-12 pounds up since starting 5 weeks ago, looking to add a few more pounds and hopefully put on like half as muscle. Will keep updated throughout PCT.


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## deejeff442

Last time i did dbol it was 25 mg a day and put on 18 pounds in 5 weeks.i was also on test and deca so i kept all the weight and added to it throughout the cycle.when i came off i only lost 10 pounds.12 pounds isnt alot for dbol


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## nd3093

deejeff442 said:


> Last time i did dbol it was 25 mg a day and put on 18 pounds in 5 weeks.i was also on test and deca so i kept all the weight and added to it throughout the cycle.when i came off i only lost 10 pounds.12 pounds isnt alot for dbol



But you were on test and deca throughout the 5 weeks or no?


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## goodfella

PillarofBalance said:


> Var you can run longer than most other orals. Kick the cycle off for 6 or 8 weeks at 100mg of var.  Pumps will be insane.



At that dose his arm's will likely fall off from the pumps alone hahahah


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## John Ziegler

Like I said before nd, scale weight isn't what your after. If it is then just go to micky dees and eat the big macs. Measure up the muscles with measuring tape. You can weigh whatever and still look bigger than someone that weighs more than you.


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> Like I said before nd, scale weight isn't what your after. If it is then just go to micky dees and eat the big macs. Measure up the muscles with measuring tape. You can weigh whatever and still look bigger than someone that weighs more than you.



Yeah I do look better and bigger than I was before I will measure on the last day again and then after PCT also.


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## nd3093

I want to do Starting Strength once I'm off and when I start PCT. 3 times a week and each workout will consist of deadlift / squat / overhead press / bench at 3x5 but will only train 3 of the given 4 in one day and alternate each time. What do you guys think? I won't be able to recover as I normally would so I think that will be the best option for 4 weeks.


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## Beedeezy

You should start in now. Don't wait until after pct. lift heavy and eat big right out of the gate to keep your body in grow mode.


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## nd3093

Beedeezy said:


> You should start in now. Don't wait until after pct. lift heavy and eat big right out of the gate to keep your body in grow mode.



I'm saying during PCT because my body won't be recovering as quick. I've already been lifting heavy and will continue to eat big but my question is should I do a starting strength routine where I only do core lifts for 3 by 5 M-W-F until I recover?


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## John Ziegler

Beedeezy said:


> You should start in now. Don't wait until after pct. lift heavy and eat big right out of the gate to keep your body in grow mode.



Great advice Beedeezy an icy cat  Stay focused, stay busy and keep eating!


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## nd3093

4 days left of Dbol. I don't feel shutdown at all. Balls aren't shriveled up, can get an erection easily, and I don't feel tired or anything during the day. I've noticed 1 or 2 pimples that are very small and not noticeable approaching this last week. Don't feel bloated whatsoever and the Arimidex is definitely helping with water retention as well as my low sodium intake. I started with 0.5mg every 3 days and the last 2 weeks I've been doing it every 2 days. No signs of Gyno at all.

Going to take it easy the last two days as I won't recover as quick when I come off when I start PCT on Monday. Will be going to the gym M-W-F maybe extend to 4 days depending on how I feel. Will continue to eat BIG to maintain the weight increase. I definitely don't want to waste my time so diet is more important than the gym.

Blood levels will be checked 4 weeks after PCT and will include a full blood panel as well as hormone levels.


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## John Ziegler

How's it going sir ? First day off the dbol right ? Keep us posted precious little science project.


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## DocDePanda187123

nd3093 said:


> I want to do Starting Strength once I'm off and when I start PCT. 3 times a week and each workout will consist of deadlift / squat / overhead press / bench at 3x5 but will only train 3 of the given 4 in one day and alternate each time. What do you guys think? I won't be able to recover as I normally would so I think that will be the best option for 4 weeks.



You don't run starting strength for only 4wks


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## ToolSteel

DocDePanda187123 said:


> You don't run starting strength for only 4wks



You don't run dbol solo either. But here we are.


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## nd3093

Second day of PCT. I haven't noticed anything but being a little tired during the day. I've remained the same weight as well. I felt good at the gym today with no preworkout and my appearance has remained the same. Most likely will keep around 90% of my gains because I'm approaching this PCT just as I would when I was on. The people who give dbol a bad name are the idiots who don't run it properly. There's people out there that run it as a solo oral and make gains. My approach to this was to test out how my body reacts to the drug before I approach test. I will run (Test) next cycle along side dbol.

Throughout the cycle I was able to get erect and my libido has remained the same. I can get hard pretty easily and I don't feel that the dbol has fully shut me down. We will see how I recover and how I feel this upcoming week.


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## nd3093

DocDePanda187123 said:


> You don't run starting strength for only 4wks



I'm choosing this to run to give my body enough time to recover while I'm on PCT and then I will change it up.


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## nd3093

Zeigler said:


> How's it going sir ? First day off the dbol right ? Keep us posted precious little science project.



Second day. Today was lifting day and I was still feeling good at the gym with no supplement or pre-workout.


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> The people who give dbol a bad name are the idiots who don't run it properly. There's people out there that run it as a solo oral and make gains. My approach to this was to test out how my body reacts to the drug before I approach test.



Ok, just when I thought you were catching on you regurgitate this ludicrous ideology.


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## nd3093

Day 3 PCT. Strength has definitely decreased but I am much stronger than I was before I started. Will max out in another 3 weeks. Currently around 193-194 and end of cycle I was 196. Not sure how much water I'm carrying but I started taking creatine 3 days before starting PCT. I'm eating like crazy and I feel like my appetite has increased.

PCT will last for 3.5 weeks then I will wait one month and get my bloods checked as well as my test levels and will post them here. After finishing PCT I will wait 9.5 weeks and around Winter Break I will start a Test / Dbol cycle and possibly include Anavar for the last few weeks.

Will keep updated.


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## John Ziegler

nd3093 said:


> Will keep updated.



Alright thanks dude.


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## nd3093

Appetite is through the roof  I'm definitely getting over 4K calories so I guess this is a good thing. I feel hungry every hour and I keep eating.


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## HDH

Make sure you're not crossing over into fat gains.

H


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## ToolSteel

When everyone says "eat like crazy during pct" that doesn't mean 4 buffets a day lol


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## nd3093

ToolSteel said:


> When everyone says "eat like crazy during pct" that doesn't mean 4 buffets a day lol



It just seems as if I can eat way more than I could before.


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## nd3093

HDH said:


> Make sure you're not crossing over into fat gains.
> 
> H



My meals have been all been clean and nutritious, there's definitely some fat but I don't think I'm crossing into fat gains at all.


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## ToolSteel

It doesn't matter if you're surviving on nothing but boiled chicken and rice: a surplus is a surplus and your body has to do something with those cals. 

Just saying use caution.


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## John Ziegler

ToolSteel said:


> It doesn't matter if you're surviving on nothing but boiled chicken and rice: a surplus is a surplus and your body has to do something with those cals.
> 
> Just saying use caution.



I dont think he cares about lean right now. I think hes trying to get 200 pounds on and at his age and genetic semmetry will look better than what he had.


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## ToolSteel

I broke the 200# mark in 6th grade. I am literally unable to comprehend someone gaining any and all weight possible, fat included, for the sake of a scale number.


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## DocDePanda187123

nd3093 said:


> My meals have been all been clean and nutritious, there's definitely some fat but I don't think I'm crossing into fat gains at all.



Clean and nutritious have minimal, if any, impact on fat gains. Calories and macros have a substantial impact on fat gains.


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## nd3093

ToolSteel said:


> It doesn't matter if you're surviving on nothing but boiled chicken and rice: a surplus is a surplus and your body has to do something with those cals.
> 
> Just saying use caution.



I am just trying to maintain the weight that I have gained so far running the Dbol. I'm still up over 10 pounds.


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## nd3093

ToolSteel said:


> I broke the 200# mark in 6th grade. I am literally unable to comprehend someone gaining any and all weight possible, fat included, for the sake of a scale number.



Scale numbers obviously don't mean anything to me anymore. It's how you look as opposed to how much you weigh. I'm just trying to do this PCT properly and maintain my weight.


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## nd3093

Took the weekend off for recovery. Hit arms on Friday and I didn't even feel that sore at all besides my outer bi's from doing 4 sets of hammer curls. My weight hasn't changed at all and I'm at 191-192 currently. I started at 180.


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## John Ziegler

Hey dude how's it going ?







[/IMG]


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## nd3093

Today will be my last dose of 40mg of Nolva that I've been doing for 10 days. Then I will start taking 20mg for the remainder of PCT. No soreness of my testes, no trouble getting an erection, sex drive is pretty much the same before starting. I only felt tired during the first few days of PCT and that was about it. Lifting routine has been every other day but I'm changing that soon because I feel recovered. All my lifts have gone up ever since starting and will continue to do so with proper nutrition and rest. I've actually managed to get a job and I go in for my second interview for a position at my gym, so a $70 membership will now be free.

Weight fluctuates between the range of 8-10 pounds, I'm most certain while I was on I've gained about 5-6 pounds of water weight because my weight has been stable at around 188-190.

Once I come off of PCT, I will wait about a month and then get my bloods and test checked to make sure everything is correct.

I don't regret taking the dbol, it was just something I wanted to experiment with. I wasn't looking to get massive or huge but I will definitely run this with test next cycle.


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## nd3093

About half way done with PCT. Will be completely done October 1st. 192 Pounds stable. Libido is definitely up, I haven't felt like shit at all and I only felt tired the first few days coming off. All in all, PCT is going accordingly and gym workouts have been great.


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## John Ziegler

So far so good. Keep posting sir. Thanks


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## nd3093

3 Days left of PCT. I've maintained all of the weight I've gained minus the 5-6 pounds that were water. I'm just a little under 190 and my physique and appearance are much better than what they were before. As for numbers, my bench, dead lift, and squats all have increased.

Bloods being tested 1 month from October 1st. Then I will take about 12 weeks gap and then I will start a Test/Var log on here.

Appreciate all of the comments whether negative or positive. Do I regret doing this "cycle" definitely not. I was testing the drug to see how it reacted with my body. I know that I could have made more gains from test which I will in fact use in this next cycle. I'm satisfied with what I've got from this, and I'd say I put on a good 6-7 pounds of muscle.


I want to run Test next cycle for about 12 weeks at 250mg 2x a week and also add in var for the last 3-4 weeks at 40-60mg


Again, thanking anyone who has contributed and commented on this thread.


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## ToolSteel

You made it through with no major sides, and you learned from the experience. All's well that ends well.


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## John Ziegler

Add your time up from the first dose of dbol to the last dose of pct. Mark it down somehow I usually send myself an email. Take at least that amount of time off. 

The dude gave you some free dbols fine you did it stand alone this time.

Next cycle do yourself a favor. Go standard first cycle issue. Test e or c 14 weeks 500mg per week then pct simple and easy no orals.


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## HDH

Looks like you are still up 8 or 9lbs. Don't forget to take into consideration weight from the creatine, 4000cals a day (glycogen stores) and fat gain.

It just gets better from here. Make it a way of life and you can always count on getting bigger as each year passes. It's a slow go even with aas but worth the trip.

H


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## John Ziegler

Knock Knock 

Who's there 

Zeigler

Zeigler who

Zeigler the dude wondering where the fuk are you.


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## nd3093

I'm still here but have been busy irl. 10 more days before I go and get a full blood panel to make sure everything is back to normal. Still in the 186-88 range and I've been taking creatine monohydrate 5g daily along with multi-vitamins, fish oil, vitamin d, and milk thistle. I am like 99.9% sure that I am fully recovered and I have been for weeks now. I did a simple PCT and it seemed to work just fine for me as it did for my friend.


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## thqmas

The real question is 'Where is Zeigler?"


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## silvereyes87

He said he was giving ug a break on masons thread. I guess he meant it. Hey op. Liked the thread. Glad you didn't have any sides and definitely learned alot from everything everyone had to say.


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## nd3093

silvereyes87 said:


> He said he was giving ug a break on masons thread. I guess he meant it. Hey op. Liked the thread. Glad you didn't have any sides and definitely learned alot from everything everyone had to say.



Thanks buddy. I'd most definitely recommend running dbol with test as everyone else mentioned though.


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## nightster

How'd the bloods turn out?


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## Rasim Butt

Hey nd3093 !!!

Its a 13 page thread, can you summarize me your full cycle. I am planning to start one too.

Much appreciated bro


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## ToolSteel

Rasim Butt said:


> Hey nd3093 !!!
> 
> Its a 13 page thread, can you summarize me your full cycle. I am planning to start one too.
> 
> Much appreciated bro



He did sum it up. Right here. 



nd3093 said:


> Thanks buddy. *I'd most definitely recommend running dbol with test as everyone else mentioned though*.


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## Rasim Butt

where ?? I need to know a proper PCT ?
can you summarize me your full cycle. I am planning to start one too.

Much appreciated bro


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## Rasim Butt

Seriously Im too confused...... I dont know what to start with.

I asked for a pin cycle where I dont get too big and I was suggested not to use roids.... now I want to start D-bol only for normal gains, its not recommended. phfffff


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## Ritch

Rasim Butt said:


> where ?? I need to know a proper PCT ?
> can you summarize me your full cycle. I am planning to start one too.
> 
> Much appreciated bro



I told you what to start with.
Creatine
ZMA

Get some Vit C, b complex and fish oil as well.


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## MrChasingThePump

What are your stats anyways bro? I don't get what you mean by saying your afraid of getting to big


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## MrChasingThePump

Rasim Butt said:


> Seriously Im too confused...... I dont know what to start with.
> 
> I asked for a pin cycle where I dont get too big and I was suggested not to use roids.... now I want to start D-bol only for normal gains, its not recommended. phfffff



BTW Dbol is most deffinatly "roids"


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## pg8629

Be a waste of dbol


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## mrkavin

nd3093 said:


> One of my buddies had some left over 50Mg pink tablets of Dianabol from Geneza Pharmaceuticals, enough for a quick 5 week dbol cycle. I would run a test base but I want to give this a try for my first cycle and see what kind of results I get. I know Dbol only cycles are shit but some make decent gains and others lose their gains.
> 
> Stats:
> 180 LB (Lean) - Have been training for 4 years
> Height: 5'10
> Age: 22
> Body Fat: Around 15-20%
> 
> Dbol Cycle:
> I am taking 25MG of Dbol everyday for 35 days straight. I take the full dose of 25MG 1 hour before working out as I believe breaking down the doses will cause your liver to be stressed out even more.
> 
> Aromasin: I have Arimidex on hand and I take it every 3 days at 0.5MG to prevent estrogen buildup and counter Gyno. If I begin to have itchy or sore nips, I will change this to every 2 days.
> 
> PCT: Nolvadex - I will be running 40MG everyday for 10 days and tapper down to 20MG everyday for another 10 days, for a total of 20 days. (Gym friend was successful with this for PCT and recommended it to me).
> 
> I am also taking Milk Thistle 3 times a day even though I have no clue if it does anything, A multivitamin, and fish oil. I haven't noticed any side effects and I have been on for 5 days.
> 
> I have already started the cycle as of Monday 7/27/2015 and have noticed increased strength, however, I don't think I'm retaining much water as I have only jumped 2-3 pounds in 5 days. I weigh myself today after doing legs and eating my 2nd meal and I was actually 177. I eat 5 clean and healthy meals a day along with 3 snacks. My calories are broken down into 40/40/20 Ratio and I am hitting over 200 grams of protein. No side effects, great pumps, I don't drink or smoke so my liver can handle 5 weeks of 25MG.
> 
> I'm training 6 times a week and getting plenty of sleep and drinking a gallon of water a day.
> 
> 
> I know Dbol cycle only is a shit but that's what I want to experiment and that's all I have right now. I've heard some making gains and others not making gains.
> 
> Please feel free to offer any recommendations - Should I stop? Continue? If I stop and wait for a Test base what should I do?
> 
> Thank you for taking your time reading this! Happy Lifting!


6,5 210lbs 3500kcal 300g protein

Hi I’ve been training hard for past couple of years and am looking to start first dbol cycle. Was going to start with 10 mg a day am-pm for 1st week to see how I react with the goal of upping to 30mg am-afternoon-pm for the remaining 5 weeks. Does anyone have any helpful advice. Also plan would be to run 20mg of nolva following cycle. A guy at gym has told me only run Nolva if gyna occurs. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## CJ

mrkavin said:


> 6,5 210lbs 3500kcal 300g protein
> 
> Hi I’ve been training hard for past couple of years and am looking to start first dbol cycle. Was going to start with 10 mg a day am-pm for 1st week to see how I react with the goal of upping to 30mg am-afternoon-pm for the remaining 5 weeks. Does anyone have any helpful advice. Also plan would be to run 20mg of nolva following cycle. A guy at gym has told me only run Nolva if gyna occurs. Any advice would be appreciated.


Terrible plan. Try harder and come back with a better plan.


----------

