# Just got testosterone results back



## vertex (Sep 12, 2017)

Hi all,
Just got my blood test results back and they were:

testosterone - 15.1 nmol/L
lh - 4.3 ru/l
fsh - 5.9 ru/l
tsh - 2.08 - mu/l

Are these considered low? (Im 41 years old). The doctor says it doesnt warrant prescribing me testosterone. What course of action do I have open to me to get testosterone?

Thanks


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## NbleSavage (Sep 12, 2017)

Yer low, Mate - not sure what reference table yer GP is looking at but yer low by just about any standard. Time to find a new GP - or at least to appeal to this one in terms of yer reduced quality of life at having the T levels of a withering octogenarian. 


Vermeulen, A. (1996). *Declining Androgens with Age: An Overview.* In Vermeulen, A. & Oddens, & B. J. (Eds.), _Androgens and the Aging Male_ (pp. 3-14). New York: Parthenon Publishing.Measurements in SI Units

AgeTotal T
(nmol/L)Free T
(pmol/L)SHBG
(nmol/L)DHEA-S
(umol/L)Estradiol
(pmol/L)25-3421.442835.56.413735-44*23.1*35640.16.013445-5421.031444.64.814255-6419.528845.53.212965-7418.223948.72.613275-8416.320751.01.213985-10013.018665.91.2136


Source: https://www.menshormonalhealth.com/normal-testosterone-levels.html


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## vertex (Sep 12, 2017)

Thanks. Ive requested a call with the doctor. I dont know why he's being reluctant to help!


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## stonetag (Sep 12, 2017)

vertex said:


> Thanks. Ive requested a call with the doctor. I dont know why he's being reluctant to help!



Get used to it.


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## vertex (Sep 12, 2017)

Argh. Just got off the phone from Dr and he says my testosterone level is normal and when I showed him the menshormonalhealth.com/normal-testosterone-levels.html he said the site is biased! What other chart tables can I show him!?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 12, 2017)

15.1nmol/L translates into around 450ng/dl. Your levels are not low. No doctor should be prescribing you test on those levels alone.


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## vertex (Sep 12, 2017)

Ive just found this: nebido.com/en/hcp/research/testosterone-tools/conversion-tool.php

15.1nmol/L puts me right on the dashed red line where the yellow bar ends. The yellow bar is "testosterone substitution usually not required" and the asterisk is "T trial may be considered in individual cases based on total T/symptoms and low calculated free T" . So Im right on the border of where treatment would be considered. My argument is that with my symptoms (low sex drive, lethargy etc...) it would be worth trying some exogenous testosterone to see if it helps. What do you think?


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## Flyingdragon (Sep 12, 2017)

Get your Free Test levels checked, that is a better indicator...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 12, 2017)

vertex said:


> Ive just found this: nebido.com/en/hcp/research/testosterone-tools/conversion-tool.php
> 
> 15.1nmol/L puts me right on the dashed red line where the yellow bar ends. The yellow bar is "testosterone substitution usually not required" and the asterisk is "T trial may be considered in individual cases based on total T/symptoms and low calculated free T" . So Im right on the border of where treatment would be considered. My argument is that with my symptoms (low sex drive, lethargy etc...) it would be worth trying some exogenous testosterone to see if it helps. What do you think?



Those symptoms are generic symptoms for any number of other things. Sure, using test will make you feel better, but in your case it would likely mask the symptoms like a bandaid instead of being an actual cure.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 12, 2017)

What is your LH, FSH, E2, SHBG, prolactin, etc at?


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## PillarofBalance (Sep 12, 2017)

vertex said:


> Ive just found this: nebido.com/en/hcp/research/testosterone-tools/conversion-tool.php
> 
> 15.1nmol/L puts me right on the dashed red line where the yellow bar ends. The yellow bar is "testosterone substitution usually not required" and the asterisk is "T trial may be considered in individual cases based on total T/symptoms and low calculated free T" . So Im right on the border of where treatment would be considered. My argument is that with my symptoms (low sex drive, lethargy etc...) it would be worth trying some exogenous testosterone to see if it helps. What do you think?



Testosterone isn't something you can take and just simply stop taking when it doesn't work out. You don't experiment with it.

When you inject test, your body ceases production of it. When you stop injecting you need a cocktail of drugs and blood work to get it started again. It doesn't always restart. And sometimes even when it does the levels don't rebound to where they used to be.


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## PillarofBalance (Sep 12, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> What is your LH, FSH, E2, SHBG, prolactin, etc at?



This will answer is trt is a good idea for the most part. It could also indicate something like clomiphene may get your levels up on their own.


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## Caballero (Sep 12, 2017)

OP I took my pre-cycle bloods after being off Aas 9 months. I was 41yrs and posted them on "another" fourm. My number was at 17.0 nmol/L and DocDePanda explain the same thing to me way back. I wasn't consider low in the overall picture. 

View attachment 4412


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## vertex (Sep 13, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback guys. So is the consensus that I shouldn't bother arguing with the doctor, even though my T level is at the very low end of the 'normal' boundary?


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## vertex (Sep 13, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> What is your LH, FSH, E2, SHBG, prolactin, etc at?



These are the results I have:

testosterone - 15.1 nmol/L
lh - 4.3 ru/l
fsh - 5.9 ru/l
tsh - 2.08 - mu/l

I dont know about E2, SHBG etc...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 13, 2017)

vertex said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. So is the consensus that I shouldn't bother arguing with the doctor, even though my T level is at the very low end of the 'normal' boundary?



You are not on the very low end of the normal boundary. You have perfectly normal testosterone levels. Your LH, FSH, and TSH also look fine. It would be nice to see E2, SHBG, FT3 and 4, serum T3 and 4, and prolactin among other things. 

Your belief is is misguided bc you're relying on bullshit sources to model your beliefs after. I don't mean that as an insult to you but rather to make you understand why you're not thinking clearly. 

You mentioned the line on the Nebido website....do you really not understand the bias from that? Nebido would of course love to sell testosterone to every man, woman, and child on this planet bc it would increase their profits. They'll make ppl believe they need test even when they really don't. They'll shotgun list a bunch of symptoms and tell you about them so that anyone who has one or two amd has never given a second thought to TRT is suddenly dying to get it. 

The he other source you mentioned was the hormonal health site. That is a bullshit site plain and simple. Do not believe anybody who tries selling you on certain levels for testosterone depending upon your age unless it references the Tanner stages. That is a load of crap. The hormonal health website you showed your doctor is ran by a guy named Brian Hildebrant. Do you know what this guy does for a living? He's not a doctor or surgeon. He's not an endo or a urologist. He's a webmarketer and website designer. His website hormonal health generates $130,000 annually in ad revenue bc he's good at selling BS to ppl who don't know any better. The chart with test levels for age...:do you know where that came from? It came from a book published by Vermeulen and Kaufman. Why was it published in a book you ask? Well it's bc the study did not pass peer review criteria and would never be published in a scientific journal so these guys decided to make a book to push their theories and publicity.


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## vertex (Sep 15, 2017)

Thanks DocDePanda187123. What resource would you suggest I use to compare my test to the benchmark? I agree, on second look those sites do have a bias for selling test.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 15, 2017)

vertex said:


> Thanks DocDePanda187123. What resource would you suggest I use to compare my test to the benchmark? I agree, on second look those sites do have a bias for selling test.



If you've been going to your PCP for this then ask to be referred to a specialist, and endo or uro. They're much more specialized in hormones and will likely order a complete blood work panel. 

the symptoms you mentioned do mirror those of low test but with levels of around 450ng/dl my money is on the cause being something else.


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## timecode2 (Sep 16, 2017)

I'm 28 in living in the U.K I scored 12.3 on my levels an the doctors here won't touch me unless I score 8 or lower which is insane.

i self medicate and all my symptoms vanished, and as you expect, I stopped for 2 weeks (due to travelling, and my symptoms came back )

depending where you live there is a lot of differences. UK you need private doctors to take you seriously (I personally self prescribe)

i hear in the states they are more open minded, than here.
hope you get sorted.


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## vertex (Sep 18, 2017)

timecode2 said:


> I'm 28 in living in the U.K I scored 12.3 on my levels an the doctors here won't touch me unless I score 8 or lower which is insane.
> 
> i self medicate and all my symptoms vanished, and as you expect, I stopped for 2 weeks (due to travelling, and my symptoms came back )
> 
> ...



Im in the UK too (south). I dont know why my GP is so reluctant to do anything - surely it would be worth a try. I could understand if my test was in the upper range, but surely it would be worth trying to rule out low test. 

Did you get tested in the morning (before 9am)? This is when my GP said to get tested because test levels are at their highest.

Can I ask what your self-medicating with? Is it something like Tostran?

Cheers


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 18, 2017)

vertex said:


> Im in the UK too (south). I dont know why my GP is so reluctant to do anything - surely it would be worth a try. I could understand if my test was in the upper range, but surely it would be worth trying to rule out low test.
> 
> Did you get tested in the morning (before 9am)? This is when my GP said to get tested because test levels are at their highest.
> 
> ...



Injecting testosterone to rule out POSSIBLE/UNLIKELY hypogonadism is not the way to go about things.


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