# Trying to learn how to sumo DL , How bad is it ?



## Yano (Oct 23, 2021)

20211023_140940_467193644939695
					

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						20211023_141125_467298960076321
					

Watch "20211023_141125_467298960076321" on Streamable.




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Ok I've never been a sumo guy , been practicing this for a couple of days , I know its probably ugly as fuck but if any one see's anything glaring at them as totally wrong , shout it out if ya would please. I want to get this form right before I get used to it the wrong way.


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## OldeBull1 (Oct 24, 2021)

Look at them good boys. I missed the lift,  was watching the dogs.
Looks pretty good. Is there something interesting on the floor or off to the side that we don't see? During your sets, your twist or bend your neck a lot, looking at the bar. I get you're learning the lift, but your spine will appreciate it if you stay fixed in a neutral forward  position.  Early reps, you could see 2 parts of the lift, the leg drive, then back extension. As you get into the groove, this flowed better.
Keep up the good work.


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## Yano (Oct 24, 2021)

OldeBull1 said:


> Look at them good boys. I missed the lift,  was watching the dogs.
> Looks pretty good. Is there something interesting on the floor or off to the side that we don't see? During your sets, your twist or bend your neck a lot, looking at the bar. I get you're learning the lift, but your spine will appreciate it if you stay fixed in a neutral forward  position.  Early reps, you could see 2 parts of the lift, the leg drive, then back extension. As you get into the groove, this flowed better.
> Keep up the good work.


I've only been doing this a couple of days so the look down is me trying to make sure I've got the bar as close as I can and that I've got my knee stacked over my ankle proper and not out over the bar. Hopefully once I find my spot and get comfortable with the lift I can just focus on the task , keep my head up and go for it. Watched a few things that Ed Coan put out and he was big on foot placement and not to try to match your form to , insert name here , but to be yourself and move your feet like an inch at a time until you find , your spot. Thanks for extra eyes I really appreciate it. This form is all new to me and having a community like this to be able to get advice from is fucking amazing I've learned a lot about this lift in just a couple of days from so many people.  C ya man , thanks again.


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## wsmwannabe (Oct 24, 2021)

At that weight, your form looks solid. You'll find your weaknesses and deficiencies as the weight goes up. My only complaint about the whole video is the shoes you're wearing. They look like soft sole or gum sole shoes. I think you'd be better off either barefoot or with some deadlifting shoes.


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## Yano (Oct 24, 2021)

wsmwannabe said:


> At that weight, your form looks solid. You'll find your weaknesses and deficiencies as the weight goes up. My only complaint about the whole video is the shoes you're wearing. They look like soft sole or gum sole shoes. I think you'd be better off either barefoot or with some deadlifting shoes.


Thanks for watching it man. My old tennis shoes all i've ever used that or just socks.


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## Btcowboy (Oct 24, 2021)

Start off with I am no expert, just switched myself a few months back.

At that weight it looks fine, I think I noticed your hips start to come up first albeit not a lot. As mentioned as the weight goes up your form issues will start to show themselves. Advice I was told hips high, back straight, head and chest proud. Push from the floor, be patient especially off the floor, drive hips forward. I have found that I get in best starting position on the second rep, your body just kinda knows it when you set your first rep down. So if you can note that start position on the second rep, replicate it on the first. 

Shoes I either use my chucks, or in the past month started using Notorious Lifters Sumo Sole Gen 2.


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## Yano (Oct 24, 2021)

Btcowboy said:


> Start off with I am no expert, just switched myself a few months back.
> 
> At that weight it looks fine, I think I noticed your hips start to come up first albeit not a lot. As mentioned as the weight goes up your form issues will start to show themselves. Advice I was told hips high, back straight, head and chest proud. Push from the floor, be patient especially off the floor, drive hips forward. I have found that I get in best starting position on the second rep, your body just kinda knows it when you set your first rep down. So if you can note that start position on the second rep, replicate it on the first.
> 
> Shoes I either use my chucks, or in the past month started using Notorious Lifters Sumo Sole Gen 2.


Thanks ! I really appreciate all the advice. Place is amazing.


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## Trendkill (Oct 25, 2021)

Here's the thing with sumo....Don't watch the guys that are masters of this style.  Guys like Coan, Woolam, Browner, Belkin, Grigsby, etc.  These guys literally have such genetic anatomic leverages that it's nearly impossible to replicate their form.  They were born to pull from day one.  Instead, find someone who's not really built to pull sumo but has figured out a way.  Guys like Dan Green, Bruce Mason, Bob Merkh, Daniel Tinajero.  Dudes that are strong but who don't have the natural leverages to pull big weight.  Break down their form, learn from their training and their queues.  It will make for a much less frustrating experience.


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## Skullcrusher (Oct 25, 2021)

Lots of great guys here ready, willing, and able to help however they can.

I had to learn to shut up and listen since apparently I do not know everything!


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## flenser (Oct 25, 2021)

I thought it was cool you could get into position with 135 on the bar. If I try that the bar comes off the ground as soon as I move my hips forward, and it turns into an RDL.


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## silentlemon1011 (Oct 26, 2021)

Yano said:


> 20211023_140940_467193644939695
> 
> 
> Watch "20211023_140940_467193644939695" on Streamable.
> ...



1. Had to watch 5 times because your dogs are awesome training partner.
2. Gotta Tag my teacher @Perrin Aybara here
He taught me to Sumo and pulls some serious numbers.
3 My first thoughts are that you're getting hitched at the knees a slight bit, you're still lifting much lighter than you easily could (Which is good and smart) so it could be that, but it seems to me you could lean back a slight bit more... by driving the hips out and letting your back settle down a bit.

But once again, I've only been lifting Sumo for about a year
Guys like Perrin and @Btcowboy will be much better at analyzing your form


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## Yano (Oct 26, 2021)

Right on man , yeah ive been practicing with just 135 and goin up to 300. Perrin took a look for me an said alot of the same things you did , Trends helped me Skull , you , so many guys have given me great advice since putting these up ,  I really appreciate it. First time doing these so it really helps hearing from folks that have learned it and lived it for a while.


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## Yano (Oct 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> I thought it was cool you could get into position with 135 on the bar. If I try that the bar comes off the ground as soon as I move my hips forward, and it turns into an RDL.


Thanks man , doing those brazillian butt work outs with the old lady paid off hahaahah i got some flexibility


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## silentlemon1011 (Oct 26, 2021)

Yano said:


> Right on man , yeah ive been practicing with just 135 and goin up to 300. Perrin took a look for me an said alot of the same things you did , Trends helped me Skull , you , so many guys have given me great advice since putting these up ,  I really appreciate it. First time doing these so it really helps hearing from folks that have learned it and lived it for a while.



I'm back in town in a day or so
I'll shoot a quick vid and add it here, I probably cant get above 3 plates (I have a torn glute and my herniated disk is fucking with me HARD right now and I havnt DL in 2 months), but maybe that can help


and I wouldnt. mind these boys taking a shot at me for my form a well lol


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## Powerlifter_500 (Oct 26, 2021)

You're kind of squatting the weight off the ground. That will typically cause you to pitch forward after you break it off the ground on heavier weights. 

Try to think of it more as you're trying to wedge your hips under the bar rather than squat it up. That'll really get those glutes firing.


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## Yano (Oct 26, 2021)

Powerlifter_500 said:


> You're kind of squatting the weight off the ground. That will typically cause you to pitch forward after you break it off the ground on heavier weights.
> 
> Try to think of it more as you're trying to wedge your hips under the bar rather than squat it up. That'll really get those glutes firing.


Thanks !!


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## Perrin Aybara (Oct 27, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> 1. Had to watch 5 times because your dogs are awesome training partner.
> 2. Gotta Tag my teacher @Perrin Aybara here
> He taught me to Sumo and pulls some serious numbers.
> 3 My first thoughts are that you're getting hitched at the knees a slight bit, you're still lifting much lighter than you easily could (Which is good and smart) so it could be that, but it seems to me you could lean back a slight bit more... by driving the hips out and letting your back settle down a bit.
> ...



Those videos are the ones I commented on in his log the other day. I don't think I mentioned accessory stuff though, so here's my recommendations on that. 

Belt squats in sumo stance
I find these to be a great way to get in a lot of additional volume to similar muscles without taxing the lower back, which is slow to recover. It's pretty easy to DIY a setup. A dip belt with a landmine type setup or just a belt and stand on two platforms. I've used a calf raise in place of the landmine too. Spud inc makes an awesome belt squat belt as well. Anyway want to focus on feeling it in your inner thighs and glutes. High reps 10-20.

Dumbbell glute bridges with bands. 
For these you'd want to run a heavy band across the bottom of your squat rack, then lie down with it over your lap to lock out the dumbbell against doing the glute bridges so you really get some extra resistance at the top. Doesn't take a crazy heavy dumbbell 60-100lbs is good. Very high reps, 20-30 and on the last 5 pause for a 1-2 count at the top. Will really light your glutes up. 

I always get abductors and adductors mixed up, but whichever one is inner thigh. What you want is a light band tied low on your rack and the other end looped around your ankle. Then stand a little away and then pull that leg in towards your other using your inner thigh. It's kinda like that machine you see chicks do at the gym where they sit and squeeze their legs together, but without the fixed range of motion. Higher reps on these too, 20ish.

Those muscles get used a lot in sumo, so I've found working them directly to be pretty beneficial. Also hip mobility work to improve your starting position. And practice practice practice.


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## Yano (Oct 27, 2021)

Perrin Aybara said:


> Those videos are the ones I commented on in his log the other day. I don't think I mentioned accessory stuff though, so here's my recommendations on that.
> 
> Belt squats in sumo stance
> I find these to be a great way to get in a lot of additional volume to similar muscles without taxing the lower back, which is slow to recover. It's pretty easy to DIY a setup. A dip belt with a landmine type setup or just a belt and stand on two platforms. I've used a calf raise in place of the landmine too. Spud inc makes an awesome belt squat belt as well. Anyway want to focus on feeling it in your inner thighs and glutes. High reps 10-20.
> ...


Yes Sir same vids i had thrown em up in the main  thread thinking they might get more eyes and I could get a wider perspective from every one that just putting them in the log.
This is all great stuff , thanks a ton !! Ive lifted for sports for years but just got into really trying powerlifting and enjoy it a lot. Was always a fan of strongman and things like that going back to Kaz. I've been practicing them as often as i can , bouncing between 135 up to 300 and back down to get a feel for it.


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## Perrin Aybara (Oct 27, 2021)

Yano said:


> Yes Sir same vids i had thrown em up in the main  thread thinking they might get more eyes and I could get a wider perspective from every one that just putting them in the log.
> This is all great stuff , thanks a ton !! Ive lifted for sports for years but just got into really trying powerlifting and enjoy it a lot. Was always a fan of strongman and things like that going back to Kaz. I've been practicing them as often as i can , bouncing between 135 up to 300 and back down to get a feel for it.



Powerlifting is a lot of fun. I got back into lifting in my late 20's and early 30's and ended up going right into powerlifting. There was an older powerlifter at my gym that told me I was a natural deadlifter and I ended up lifting with him and doing my first meet soon after in early 2015. Have done five more since then. No meets this year unfortunately due to multiple injuries. 

When you get more comfortable with the lift post videos of your heavier sets. You can kind of power through all kinds of sticking points and a bad setup with light weight. Sumo is very technical. It's a lot harder to power through a mistake than conventional is on a max effort lift.


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## silentlemon1011 (Oct 27, 2021)

Perrin Aybara said:


> Powerlifting is a lot of fun. I got back into lifting in my late 20's and early 30's and ended up going right into powerlifting. There was an older powerlifter at my gym that told me I was a natural deadlifter and I ended up lifting with him and doing my first meet soon after in early 2015. Have done five more since then. No meets this year unfortunately due to multiple injuries.
> 
> When you get more comfortable with the lift post videos of your heavier sets. You can kind of power through all kinds of sticking points and a bad setup with light weight. Sumo is very technical. It's a lot harder to power through a mistake than conventional is on a max effort lift.



Well said
I definitely find myself missing pulls that I should have gotten because I got too quick or didnt think enough about stuff like pulling the weight out of the bar before my lift.. or something as simple as hip activation.

With conventional, I could just lift, was easier to think about.

But the numbers are worth it lol


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## Btcowboy (Oct 27, 2021)

Here is my ghetto belt squat set up as Perrin mentioned. It and Adductor work has done wonders for my sumo.


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## Perrin Aybara (Oct 27, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Well said
> I definitely find myself missing pulls that I should have gotten because I got too quick or didnt think enough about stuff like pulling the weight out of the bar before my lift.. or something as simple as hip activation.
> 
> With conventional, I could just lift, was easier to think about.
> ...



The timing of locking my knees out on max or near max is what used to get me. End up in an impossible lockout situation. That and I'm too violent off the floor instead of patiently breaking the bar from the floor. Maybe now that I'm weak again I can unlearn some of that when I build back up.


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## Yano (Oct 27, 2021)

Perrin Aybara said:


> Powerlifting is a lot of fun. I got back into lifting in my late 20's and early 30's and ended up going right into powerlifting. There was an older powerlifter at my gym that told me I was a natural deadlifter and I ended up lifting with him and doing my first meet soon after in early 2015. Have done five more since then. No meets this year unfortunately due to multiple injuries.
> 
> When you get more comfortable with the lift post videos of your heavier sets. You can kind of power through all kinds of sticking points and a bad setup with light weight. Sumo is very technical. It's a lot harder to power through a mistake than conventional is on a max effort lift.


Oh right on man thats cool , sorry to hear ya got banged up. The wife is my camera hook up i'll work up a solid set and see how much she can get on her phone for me to post up. Got my first weight set I was 12 and a copy of vince girondas unleashing the wild physique , most of my lifting has revolved around half ass bb as a kid , and lifting for shot disc and hammer or football. Always liked deadlifting and squatting and trying to lift as much as I could but never really dedicated what I was doing just to powerlifting until recently.  The stroke put a big kink and pause in that whole process but I'm back at it finally.


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## Yano (Oct 27, 2021)

Btcowboy said:


> Here is my ghetto belt squat set up as Perrin mentioned. It and Adductor work has done wonders for my sumo.
> 
> View attachment 14753


Oh right on I can set up some thing like that or I was going to build a bridge out of 6x6 and stand on that , this is nicer and keeps my fat ass out of the rain !


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## Btcowboy (Oct 27, 2021)

Yano said:


> Oh right on I can set up some thing like that or I was going to build a bridge out of 6x6 and stand on that , this is nicer and keeps my fat ass out of the rain !


Yup, I just set one end on the safety pop a 45 on it. Set j hook on other side load up plates. I just use the blocks i made for block pulls to stand on. Use an old shitty belt and dome chain.


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## silentlemon1011 (Oct 27, 2021)

Btcowboy said:


> Here is my ghetto belt squat set up as Perrin mentioned. It and Adductor work has done wonders for my sumo.
> 
> View attachment 14753



Love that setup
was a game changer when you showed me lol


Perrin Aybara said:


> The timing of locking my knees out on max or near max is what used to get me. End up in an impossible lockout situation. That and I'm too violent off the floor instead of patiently breaking the bar from the floor. Maybe now that I'm weak again I can unlearn some of that when I build back up.



I'm pretty similar with that tendancy to get violent off the floor.
I could afford yo do that with Conventional
But with Sumo, it's taken a lot of work to try to pull the weight out of the bar until there is around 10lbs left, then let it rip.
I'm still learning so sometimes I would surprise myself and oull it with ease when I get it perfect

Other times I'd leave too much weight and get a bad lift, or even worse, accidentally lift it up when I misjudged my strength and the weight.

Sumo is hard lol, but some guys make it look too easy.... I'm including you here lol


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## Yano (Oct 27, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Love that setup
> was a game changer when you showed me lol
> 
> 
> ...


I always thought it was going to be easier than conventional , but it sure isn't. An my hook grip is weak as shit , first thing I noticed after changing to it from my usual over under , had no clue the bar was going to try to spin around me like we were dancing lol. This is a lot more technical than my usual cave man grab and growl. I really appreciate all the help and tips and advice from every one , this is great.


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## dirtys1x (Oct 27, 2021)

I would try messing around with varying degrees of foot placement. Try a wider stance so you don’t have to load so low. Someone else here mentioned that you seem to be too squatted. Also, it’s really hard to critique form with 135. Form isn’t going to break unless you’re deep into your working sets. Would be better to see it with more weight on the bar.


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## dirtys1x (Oct 27, 2021)

Yano said:


> I always thought it was going to be easier than conventional , but it sure isn't. An my hook grip is weak as shit , first thing I noticed after changing to it from my usual over under , had no clue the bar was going to try to spin around me like we were dancing lol. This is a lot more technical than my usual cave man grab and growl. I really appreciate all the help and tips and advice from every one , this is great.


Nah. A lot of people think this. You just have to side with your mechanical advantages. Just different types of leverages. I’m strictly a conventional puller for those exact same reasons

Actually, the worlds strongest deadlifters  mostly pull conventional.


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## notsoswoleCPA (Oct 27, 2021)

I always mixed up conventional and sumo when I was really into power lifting just to have variety when deadlifting.  The one thing about sumo is if I can get the weight off of the floor, I can usually complete the lift.  With conventional, I can get stuck at the two inches off the floor point and the weights will move no more.  IMHO, they are similar yet completely different lifts.


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## wsmwannabe (Nov 10, 2021)

notsoswoleCPA said:


> IMHO, they are similar yet completely different lifts.


I had never considered this before, but I completely agree with you


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