# Complications on 1st Cycle



## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 8, 2016)

Hey Doods

On my 1st cycle of plain ol' Test (Cyp 500/week), 16 days in and though size/strength are shooting up (no pun)...I've come across my first minor issues:

1) My skin's been red as a damn lobster. At rest at work people keep coming up asking if I've been tanning or laying out (in the winter? lol). It's most prominent around my face, neck, chest, and shoulders and literally feels like a sunburn when it's most intense. Checked my BP during one of these 'fits' and it was only slightly higher than normal at 131/77. Could RBC have shot up that much? Never heard of anyone having to give blood 2 weeks into their first cycle. During workouts my I look like a tomato ready to burst...

1.5) When the above occurs, my heartrate soars through the roof. To the point that if I don't get up and take laps around the office or house I get palpitations.

2) Gyno. Very mild, just puffy swollen and soft nips. Over the past couple days I've had 10 minute bouts of sharp shooting dull pain directly below my nipples. Alas I wake up today and they're starting to soften and round up. I haven't been running an AI or anything aside of the Test, my source is hooking me up with Arimidex soon but I hear that can greatly hinder your gains on a Test run so might just do the Adex for a week then come off it? Any advice here would be wonderful to both lose the titties (I hope it goes away like I've researched) and maximize gains. A buddy is going to get me some anti estrogen 'tabs' from his TRT doc too; don't have the name/brand on them yet.


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## bvs (Dec 8, 2016)

cant help with the first problem, ive never heard of a reaction like that

as for the gyno id get on 0.5mg of arimidex every other day and see what happens from there


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## creekrat (Dec 8, 2016)

One lesson learned is never start a cycle without an ai.  On the other aspect of it, are you lobster red all of the time or does it come and go?


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 8, 2016)

Its def your estrogen. If mine gets high I start too feel hot and look redish in my face too. Only bloods will tell but def start an ai


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 8, 2016)

And an ai will not hinder your gains. It might cut some water weight but that is not "gains" anyways


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## stonetag (Dec 8, 2016)

Unless you're welding without a shirt on, which I don't advise, it almost sounds like an allergic reaction. Start your checklist like mentioned above with estro control, and go from there, good luck.


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## Tren4Life (Dec 8, 2016)

It sounds to me like your blood pressure is up. You should check it on a regular basis while on a cycle. I always do mine first thing in the morning. 

I get the red skin when I run tren and my blood pressure is usually high. 

Just my experience


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## snake (Dec 8, 2016)

Donate blood every 8 weeks should help the redness.

An AI will not hinder your gains.


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## NbleSavage (Dec 8, 2016)

All good advice here, MD. Invest in a blood pressure cuff (get the XXL else ye'll have a b1tch of a time getting it on yer arm). 

Definitely get bloods done and definitely start yer ADEX as soon as it arrives (even before yer bloods).


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 8, 2016)

Tren4Life said:


> It sounds to me like your blood pressure is up. You should check it on a regular basis while on a cycle. I always do mine first thing in the morning.
> 
> I get the red skin when I run tren and my blood pressure is usually high.
> 
> Just my experience



Only time that happens to me is on a dose of cialis and mine drops.  My mother was yelling at me that my BP must be high. I explained no its low cause I took cialis.

She says why would you take cialis.  Then there was a deafening awkward silence at the Thanksgiving table...


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## DieYoungStrong (Dec 8, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Only time that happens to me is on a dose of cialis and mine drops.  My mother was yelling at me that my BP must be high. I explained no its low cause I took cialis.
> 
> She says why would you take cialis.  Then there was a deafening awkward silence at the Thanksgiving table...



Wait....you told your mother you took Cialis? At Thanksgiving dinner? You don't even tell your wife you're taking cialis at our age, never mind your mother.


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 8, 2016)

Haha well that turned entertaining quickly

I'm getting hooked up with some arimidex here any day. Actually getting both 1mg tablets as well as a bottle to pin from.

Suggestions on dosing? I see a lot of like .5 eod but some people saying just take for a week until the puffy nips start to subside then come off the AI


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 8, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Haha well that turned entertaining quickly
> 
> I'm getting hooked up with some arimidex here any day. Actually getting both 1mg tablets as well as a bottle to pin from.
> 
> Suggestions on dosing? I see a lot of like .5 eod but some people saying just take for a week until the puffy nips start to subside then come off the AI



you started a cycle with no ai??  That was a dumb move..gyno starts slow and u probably wont even realize its happening..It may not be a problem this cycle but I assure u that bitch gyno plants its seeds and the next few cycles its gonna grow..Your red problems is 100% estrogen related


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 8, 2016)

Lesson learned for certain

You think .5mg eod for now?


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 8, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Lesson learned for certain
> 
> You think .5mg eod for now?



I hate the guessing game..When u get the ai take a 1mg right away..Go get bloods done if u can..some places you cant..If u cant your gonna have to play the guessing game..Start taking your ai on pin days..If u pin twice a week use a half mg every time u pin..If u have real adex it will stop your nip from feeling the burning sore feeling u get when your estrogen is high..The only real way to know how to control estrogen through a ai is with multiple bloods done anything else and u have to go by feel.


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## Maijah (Dec 8, 2016)

stonetag said:


> Unless you're welding without a shirt on, which I don't advise, it almost sounds like an allergic reaction. Start your checklist like mentioned above with estro control, and go from there, good luck.



Lmao, I did this once and I was a hurtin  unit. Never again, lol


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 9, 2016)

Took a 1mg tab today adex.

Tab is so damn small splitting in half might be hard. Will shoot for .5mg each pin day (mon/th) moving forward something like that?


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 9, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Took a 1mg tab today adex.
> 
> Tab is so damn small splitting in half might be hard. Will shoot for .5mg each pin day (mon/th) moving forward something like that?



Go to CVS and get a pill splitter. And in the other post u said "pin" adex. U do not pin adex. If its liquid u just squirt in your mouth and swallow. Just to make that clear. 

Im 100% positive your issues will go away when u control your enm with the ai. Ok maybe not 100% but almost. Lol


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## Longandhard (Dec 9, 2016)

When you take your socks and see a water line take ai


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 9, 2016)

Man face super red and hot today, redness down into chest too.

That should dissipate when the AI kicks in?


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## Longandhard (Dec 9, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Man face super red and hot today, redness down into chest too.
> 
> That should dissipate when the AI kicks in?



Yea it should. For ai I like exemestane better. It'll kill it. A lot of people here like dex though


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 10, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Man face super red and hot today, redness down into chest too.
> 
> That should dissipate when the AI kicks in?



How do you know you have a real ai?


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 10, 2016)

I think it should. Gonna take a week or so for the existing estrogen to clear tho because you're taking adex. I also like stane better but both are good.


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## automatondan (Dec 10, 2016)

Longandhard said:


> Yea it should. For ai I like exemestane better. It'll kill it. A lot of people here like dex though





ECKSRATED said:


> I think it should. Gonna take a week or so for the existing estrogen to clear tho because you're taking adex. I also like stane better but both are good.



OP, I believe aromisin works faster and literally destroys the e2 problem over night, but IMHO its too easy to tank your e2 on aromisin... done that a few times... not fun. The adex takes longer, but its safer and easier to control... Thats why the fellas wisely suggested starting your AI right from the beginning of your cycle. Never start a cycle w/o having everything you need for AIs and PCT. OP, what do you have ready for your PCT? (Please be honest). Your PCT and diet will be key factors in your recovery as well as you being able to keep any of your gains...


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 10, 2016)

Man thanks so much for the quick replies as always you guys are sick

-The adex is script from a local TRT clinic
-I'll be running both clomid and nolva for PCT though my guy hasn't gotten it for me yet. Same issue that landed me here with my AI...
-Will I have any estrogen related issues cycling off after this run is up? Don't you drop AI, wait a week, then commence PCT for a month? Hoping to rebound to a decent natural state


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 10, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Man thanks so much for the quick replies as always you guys are sick
> 
> -The adex is script from a local TRT clinic
> -I'll be running both clomid and nolva for PCT though my guy hasn't gotten it for me yet. Same issue that landed me here with my AI...
> -Will I have any estrogen related issues cycling off after this run is up? Don't you drop AI, wait a week, then commence PCT for a month? Hoping to rebound to a decent natural state


you got the best ai u can get..It starts to work pretty fast..I get more estrogen sides coming off gear then i do on..Alot of people get gyno after they drop the test...I stay on a low dose a few weeks after pct ends.With adex u wanna taper off slowly to try to avoid a rebound


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## RISE (Dec 10, 2016)

I get a little red and my shoulders, neck, and head get a little tight feeling from time to time.  Usually around after my injections, but it never feels like a sunburn.  I used to get heart palpatarions as well, but it was all in my head.  I was running eq at the time as well as test and it bumped my BP up quite a bit.  It would freak me out at night when I would go to sleep and feel my heart beating out of my chest.  Went to a doc got an ekg, told him I was on stuff, erc.  He told me my heart looked perfect.  After that never had a problem.  My anxiety was causing the palpatations.  Not sure if these sides are freaking you out but that may be a cause.


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 10, 2016)

Yeah dude just checked mine and at an all time low of 107/74 lol that's awesome


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 10, 2016)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Wait....you told your mother you took Cialis? At Thanksgiving dinner? You don't even tell your wife you're taking cialis at our age, never mind your mother.



Well when she nagged me about my blood pressure for 20 minutes after me repeatedly telling her to knock it off I wanted to make her regret it.

I think we all regretted this...


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## DieYoungStrong (Dec 10, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Well when she nagged me about my blood pressure for 20 minutes after me repeatedly telling her to knock it off I wanted to make her regret it.
> 
> I think we all regretted this...



Having met your parents before, I can imagine this whole thing going down, and it's amazing!


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## automatondan (Dec 10, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Well when she nagged me about my blood pressure for 20 minutes after me repeatedly telling her to knock it off I wanted to make her regret it.
> 
> I think we all regretted this...





DieYoungStrong said:


> Having met your parents before, I can imagine this whole thing going down, and it's amazing!



Hahaha I would have paid big money to watch all this happen....


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## John Ziegler (Dec 10, 2016)

Longandhard said:


> Yea it should. For ai I like exemestane better. It'll kill it. A lot of people here like dex though





ECKSRATED said:


> I also like stane better but both are good.





automatonDan said:


> OP, I believe aromisin works faster and literally destroys the e2 problem over night



Sure those are probably great products but he hasn't got those right now he has adex so ........



Bro Bundy said:


> you got the best ai u can get..It starts to work pretty fast..



High 5 to the BB


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## automatondan (Dec 10, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> Sure those are probably great products but he hasn't got those right now he has adex so ........
> 
> 
> 
> High 5 to the BB



If you read my post Z, I am actually cautioning him not to mess with aromisin and recommending he use adex and that he should have started the adex from the very beginning.............    So..............


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## John Ziegler (Dec 10, 2016)

Lefty says what I am trying to say when he says "ya its a beautiful thing but it's not my thing"


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## glycomann (Dec 10, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Hey Doods
> 
> On my 1st cycle of plain ol' Test (Cyp 500/week), 16 days in and though size/strength are shooting up (no pun)...I've come across my first minor issues:
> 
> ...



500 mg a week of test is too much for you without getting side effects.  I'm not a fan of dumping AIs on the problem.  I'm more a fan of using things that don't aromitise in place of part of the test.  EQ aromatizes 1/2 as much.  Anavar does not at all.  Primo does not.  Mast deos not.  Deca does only 1/2 as much but it's a bit more complicated because it hits the progesterone receptor. Personally I use less test and use other anabolics for the anabolic/androgenic part of the cycle. 400 EQ and 200 test you would have been happier with less sides.


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## John Ziegler (Dec 10, 2016)

glycomann said:


> 500 mg a week of test is too much for you without getting side effects.  I'm not a fan of dumping AIs on the problem.  I'm more a fan of using things that don't aromitise in place of part of the test.  EQ aromatizes 1/2 as much.  Anavar does not at all.  Primo does not.  Mast deos not.  Deca does only 1/2 as much but it's a bit more complicated because it hits the progesterone receptor. Personally I use less test and use other anabolics for the anabolic/androgenic part of the cycle. 400 EQ and 200 test you *would have* been happier with less sides.



There are a billion things that woulda shoulda coulda been done differently in a billion different points of view but right now the fact is he is on 500mg test and has adex.

All this talk about things he can't do right now or do anything about right now isn't gunna help.


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## D-max (Dec 10, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Don't you drop AI, wait a week, then commence PCT for a month? Hoping to rebound to a decent natural state



A week is not nearly long enough. 2 is what a lot do. I'd go with 3 after your last pin to start pct. It takes awhile for the test to clear and your levels to get back down.


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## glycomann (Dec 10, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> There are a billion things that woulda shoulda coulda been done differently in a billion different points of view but right now the fact is he is on 500mg test and has adex.
> 
> All this talk about things he can't do right now or do anything about right now isn't gunna help.



There will be a next time.


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## Longandhard (Dec 11, 2016)

glycomann said:


> There will be a next time.



Yea I agree


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 11, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> Sure those are probably great products but he hasn't got those right now he has adex so ........
> 
> 
> 
> High 5 to the BB



No shit. We know that. We were just stating what we like better. We all gave advice on adex. U would see that if u would read. 

High fiveeeeeeeeee


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## John Ziegler (Dec 11, 2016)

glycomann said:


> There will be a next time.



And this isn't it yet so don't get ahead of yourself.



Longandhard said:


> Yea I agree



Remains to be seen so we ought to focus on the here and now.



ECKSRATED said:


> No shit. We know that. We were just stating what we like better. We all gave advice on adex. U would see that if u would read.



He likes this better than that another guy likes that better this then someone else says none of those are right you should have done it differently from the set go.

All that extra stuff is confusing and clusterfukish at this point to a guy that only has adex right now anyways. 

Ought to keep it simple & easy to comprehend like what these dudes are saying.



bvs said:


> cant help with the first problem, ive never heard of a reaction like that
> 
> as for the gyno id get on 0.5mg of arimidex every other day and see what happens from there





Bro Bundy said:


> you got the best ai u can get..It starts to work pretty fast..I get more estrogen sides coming off gear then i do on..Alot of people get gyno after they drop the test...I stay on a low dose a few weeks after pct ends.With adex u wanna taper off slowly to try to avoid a rebound


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## automatondan (Dec 11, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> And this isn't it yet so don't get ahead of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most of us have given solid advice for *his current situation* and _in addition_ we have also given him advice to help him make wiser decisions for the future. His questions have been answered specifically.  I dont see why you have a problem with offering helpful information to a newbie...


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 11, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> And this isn't it yet so don't get ahead of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its not confusing. Its called learning and options. If he can't comprehend what I said and is confused then he shouldn't be running a cycle.


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## RISE (Dec 11, 2016)

Zeigler is obviously in need of some AI as well.  Or some weed.


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## glycomann (Dec 11, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> And this isn't it yet so don't get ahead of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Simple and easy to understand like being spoon fed is what you mean. You seem to be anti-information.


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## Longandhard (Dec 11, 2016)

RISE said:


> Zeigler is obviously in need of some AI as well.  Or some weed.



Lmao dead!!!


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 12, 2016)

Caught up reading, really appreciate all the info dudes!

Popped 1mg adex now I'm .5 e3d moving forward

-Both nips now equally puffy and swollen (not improving)
- Skin still very red and hot to touch (would L Arginine play into this?)
- Stregth still going up slowly

My guy is getting me more adex and exemestane as well, says as a suicide inhibitor it will really help things out. 

You think letrozole is needed to get these babies nice and tight again or nah?


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 12, 2016)

No stay away from letro right now. Just give the adex a week or so to work. Its not suicidal so u have to let the existing e clear your body.


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## automatondan (Dec 12, 2016)

I think he was referring to the stane when he said suicide inhibitor... (which is correct)


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 12, 2016)

automatonDan said:


> I think he was referring to the stane when he said suicide inhibitor... (which is correct)



Ok. It sounded like he was gonna take both. Just stick with the adex for now. Its pharm grade so u will be just fine.


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 12, 2016)

Geez u guys are so confusing. Lol


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 12, 2016)

I dont know man I feel the adex work on my nips over night..1mg always makes my nips feel fine the next day


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## John Ziegler (Dec 12, 2016)

You can know realize what I meant when I said 



Zeigler said:


> All that extra stuff is confusing and clusterfukish at this point to a guy that only has adex right now anyways.
> 
> Ought to keep it simple & easy to comprehend



Notice how it became more like solving the rubiks cube than 1 and 1 make 2  



M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Caught up reading, really appreciate all the info dudes!
> 
> Popped 1mg adex now I'm .5 e3d moving forward
> 
> ...


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## John Ziegler (Dec 12, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct give that adex some time to work it's magic.


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## gymrat827 (Dec 12, 2016)

nolva/ralox will knock out that gyno in 1-2wks.  

Esp if its new and not established.  Once its been there for a few months, then its hard to get rid of.  

Nolva/ralox + b6.


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 13, 2016)

My dudes trying to get me to stick with AIs over nolva at this time for it (7 weeks left of cycle)

What's ralox? Sounds like a Dragonball Z villain that never made it to air


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 13, 2016)

Adex drying joints out, cracking, etc

Go some UG adex as well so I guess I'll stick with the script until it runs out


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## gymrat827 (Dec 13, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> My dudes trying to get me to stick with AIs over nolva at this time for it (7 weeks left of cycle)
> 
> What's ralox? Sounds like a Dragonball Z villain that never made it to air



raloxifene - serm.  

You need an AI, no matter what you should be using 1.  

Dex or stane will dry your joints some.  Cissus + lots of fish oil.  

But rule #1, never cycle without serm & AI.  Those are needed 150%


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 14, 2016)

I got a question that you may have answered but i missed it..How did you start a first cycle without the most important tool against sides from test?You seem like a smart guy..You look like you lift ..I just dont get it..


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 14, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> I got a question that you may have answered but i missed it..How did you start a first cycle without the most important tool against sides from test?You seem like a smart guy..You look like you lift ..I just dont get it..



Never again lesson learned man

I had 5 close using friends with years more experience than me going into this telling me not to use an AI until it's needed and they hardly ever have had to use them themselves.

Again...learning experience &#55357;&#56851;


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 16, 2016)

1 full week into Adex @e3d

Nips are still soft, drooping, swollen, and bright red in center

Starting to drag me down mentally, you can see it through clothing. Blows


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 16, 2016)

How much u taking?


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 16, 2016)

you got the adex from a dr? Or u got it from a dealer who says its from a dr?..


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 16, 2016)

Its only been a week. So youve only taken two maybe your third dose today? Adex doesn't work that fast.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 16, 2016)

this is were blood work is the king..It eliminates all guessing


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 16, 2016)

From a friend who goes to TRT clinic, I saw the bottle. Another source hooked me up with UG tabs now too

Total of 2mg taken thus far yeah

Main question is: * is this reversible? *


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 16, 2016)

Yes it's reversible.


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## automatondan (Dec 16, 2016)

Yes, especially if this has just begun.... if you already had some gyno from puberty or previous cycles , its harder to eliminate but its easy to keep under control once you get the hang of it...  but honeatly dude, if this is your first experience with AAS (and gyno symptoms) and you have legit AIs, just let the drugs do their job... I can tell you are freaking out a little.... take a deep breath and give it time... take another half dose if you feel it will give you peace of mind....  but just dont over do it, your joints will feel like shite if you do... but just relax man, if you are taking a legit AI you will be fine.


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## automatondan (Dec 16, 2016)

I dont remember if this was brought up or not, but it might be a good idea to track down some extra nolvadex for emergencies (on cycle) in addition to what you have for your PCT. Nolva eliminates aromitized e2 frome binding to receptors in your breast tissue... I use it on occasion when stuff gets a little weird on blast...


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## TrickWilliams (Dec 16, 2016)

I feel for you OP. Sorry to say, honestly I'm glad its all going down the way it is. This is great for guys like me. This is the first, first time cycle I've paid attention too. Its a good eye opener for guys that will venture into AAS eventually. Like I said I am sincerely sorry its happening to you, also very happy its the only real bad side your getting and it can be reversed. Anyone watching this happen first hand should know to have everything in order before even thinking about jumping on. I'm very surprised you didn't with you time you've had here. Its stressed day in and day out.

This whole documented cycle could really help out a lot of new guys. I'm sure there is a lot more of these on here. This is just the first newb cycle log sense I've been here.

Re-reading that all kind of sounded dickish, me learning at your expense. I don't mean it like that. No offense to you what so ever OP.


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 18, 2016)

Gyno getting worse, now painful in left nip

Might drop down to 250 test and swing by local TRT clinic so they can script something to help out, source being sketch


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 19, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Gyno getting worse, now painful in left nip
> 
> Might drop down to 250 test and swing by local TRT clinic so they can script something to help out, source being sketch



you got a bunk ai my man..


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 19, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> you got a bunk ai my man..



Got hooked up with a different source of AI and nolva today 10mg tabs

How should I dose? Should I stack?

Hoping this nolva kills this shit


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 19, 2016)

Bump for nolva dosing (sorry...)


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## ToolSteel (Dec 19, 2016)

Nolva 20/day. Ai will not do a whole lot for an existing flare up. Gotta hit the serms.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 19, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Nolva 20/day. Ai will not do a whole lot for an existing flare up. Gotta hit the serms.



ya it will..I had a bad gyno flare up last cycle and real hg adex knocked it out in a week


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 20, 2016)

What was your adex dosing? 

And should I stack the nolva with adex?


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## ToolSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> ya it will..I had a bad gyno flare up last cycle and real hg adex knocked it out in a week


Glad it worked out for you but that does not mean it's the best option. 
Serms will stop the e2 induced gyno period. Even if takes a little longer to get the Ai dialed in.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Glad it worked out for you but that does not mean it's the best option.
> Serms will stop the e2 induced gyno period. Even if takes a little longer to get the Ai dialed in.



Gyno comes from high estrogen ..the ai lowers estrogen which should stop the pain .. he hasn't been on gear long enough to develope the kinda lump that a ai won't handle..


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

I'm willing to bet your ai is fake..if it was real u wouldn't have any problem and would not need nolva for a basic test cycle..with a bunk ai your estrogen is gonna keep getting high.. that nolva won't do shit to lower estrogen


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> What was your adex dosing?
> 
> And should I stack the nolva with adex?



i used just 1mg a week..Real adex is strong stuff..It kills estrogen and any pain u get in your nip pretty quick..This is based on my experience and alot of my friends i help with cycling..None of us ever used nolve for a stupid test only cycle..Nolva is toxic shit just as adex is..Taking the both of them for test only is retarded to me...Only time i felt nolva was need was for drol..If u had a real ai and used it accordingly you wouldnt have these problems that your having..You can go down a few roads right now..You can learn from this or u can be like fuk this steroids shit im done..


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## ToolSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

Look bundy I'm not saying you're wrong. Like I already said, glad it worked out for you. But just because it worked doesn't make it the best option. 
We're talking about someone potentially having permanent bitch tits and doesn't know if his ai is worth a shit or if he's dosing correctly FOR HIM. Everyone responds differently. Even with hg I need more than the average guy. 
Nolva/ralox WILL stop the gyno regardless of e2, and gives him a chance to dial it in properly. 

Science trumps all.


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## Joliver (Dec 20, 2016)

Only a SERM will stop the existing estrogen acting on the receptors in the breast tissue and will stop the flare up  immediately. AI will prevent further aromatization of androgens but do nothing for circulating estrogen.

Tackle it both ways or buy some  band-Aids for those nips.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Look bundy I'm not saying you're wrong. Like I already said, glad it worked out for you. But just because it worked doesn't make it the best option.
> We're talking about someone potentially having permanent bitch tits and doesn't know if his ai is worth a shit or if he's dosing correctly FOR HIM. Everyone responds differently. Even with hg I need more than the average guy.
> Nolva/ralox WILL stop the gyno regardless of e2, and gives him a chance to dial it in properly.
> 
> Science trumps all.



why do u keep coming at me? He has a bunk ai..He has high estrogen problems..Dont give me the look bundy either..You act all high and mighty with newbs when your just a newb yourself..Im glad u  can remember everything u see and hear from guys like doc ,zilla ,jol,and pob..You got a bad case of the ugb's ...Thats when a guy hangsout here for a year and now hes a expert in everything aas..


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

Joliver said:


> Only a SERM will stop the existing estrogen acting on the receptors in the breast tissue and will stop the flare up  immediately. AI will prevent further aromatization of androgens but do nothing for circulating estrogen.
> 
> Tackle it both ways or buy some  band-Aids for those nips.



If he had a real ai from the start he wouldnt need any nolva for a stupid test only


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

with a bunk ai how do u guys expect his estrogen to come down? with nolva?nolva is one of the most toxic disgusting serms out there..Op the nolva is a bandaid that will stop the nips from hurting because it attaches its self to the receptor ..It wont do shit to lower your e2 which is the main problem..You need to get a real ai. If u got a bunk ai what makes u think your gonna get real nolva..These drugs are fake most of the time


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## ToolSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> why do u keep coming at me? He has a bunk ai..He has high estrogen problems..Dont give me the look bundy either..You act all high and mighty with newbs when your just a newb yourself..Im glad u  can remember everything u see and hear from guys like doc ,zilla ,jol,and pob..You got a bad case of the ugb's ...Thats when a guy hangsout here for a year and now hes a expert in everything aas..



Flying by the seat of your pants for a decade doesn't make you an expert, nor does time spend on the board. 
I wasn't "coming at you" I was providing correct information. 

Ah so you've noticed that I actually pay attention to the people who know their shit? Good. I'm glad. You should give it a try. 

Drop the bullshit cognitive dissonance.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Flying by the seat of your pants for a decade doesn't make you an expert, nor does time spend on the board.
> I wasn't "coming at you" I was providing correct information.
> 
> Ah so you've noticed that I actually pay attention to the people who know their shit? Good. I'm glad. You should give it a try.
> ...



all u do is regurgitate..Now tool before u go writing paragraphs to try and make yourself sound smart..Keep in mind I have zero interests in arguing with u..Help the op with your regurgitted info and dont worry about me


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## ToolSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> all u do is regurgitate..



False. I study the info provided from people I respect and put it together to form my own way of explaining something. Repeating a fact is not "regurgitation"

You are not your post count
You are not your join date
You are not your rep score
You're just another guy on the board with a superiority complex and a masters degree in broscience.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> False. I study the info provided from people I respect and put it together to form my own way of explaining something. Repeating a fact is not "regurgitation"
> 
> You are not your post count
> You are not your join date
> ...


keep in mind your not jol 
your not doc
your not pob
your not ecks
your not zilla

your a newb who acts like hes the god of steroids after a year of using them


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

and dickhead tool..lets stop clogging this thread ..Op u wanna use nolva and dex do it..just make sure u got real shit or your never gonna solve this problem..by the way I have never seen anyone need nolva on a basic test only cycle


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## ToolSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> keep in mind your not jol
> your not doc
> your not pob
> your not ecks
> ...



YOU'RE*


Pretty sad a NEWB knows more than you eh? 
Pro-tip out of the kindness of my heart; read and comprehend entire posts before jumping to conclusions. You have a bad habit of picking and choosing bits and pieces to paint a whole different picture. The dbol argument all over again. It's like arguing with a millennial. 
After all this, you still don't understand what I was telling the OP. But I'll spell it out again for you and him both. 

OP is unsure of Ai quality and dosing. Unless he wants to crash the **** out of his e2, and even still wait for circulating estrogen to clear, it's going to take time to get dialed in. A serm will stop the breast tissue growth ASAP, and give him a chance to get e2 properly under control without worrying about bitch tits still growing. 
Nowhere did I say to NOT use an ai. You use them together.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Pretty sad a NEWB knows more than you eh?
> Pro-tip out of the kindness of my heart; read and comprehend entire posts before jumping to conclusions. You have a bad habit of picking and choosing bits and pieces to paint a whole different picture. The dbol argument all over again. It's like arguing with a millennial.
> After all this, you still don't understand what I was telling the OP. But I'll spell it out again for you and him both.
> 
> ...



dickhead you know shit..Ive been banned longer then u have been around u regurgitating queer..You never even took dbol u fukkin joke so how would u know the difference in hg dbol or ug..once again zero experience but u think u know..I used to laugh at u when i was banned thinking who is this dumb newb acting all high and mighty to other newbs..I bet u really are a pig cop aint u dickhead


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Pretty sad a NEWB knows more than you eh?
> Pro-tip out of the kindness of my heart; read and comprehend entire posts before jumping to conclusions. You have a bad habit of picking and choosing bits and pieces to paint a whole different picture. The dbol argument all over again. It's like arguing with a millennial.
> After all this, you still don't understand what I was telling the OP. But I'll spell it out again for you and him both.
> 
> ...



dial what in u fukkin idiot he has a bunk ai..u want him to dial in a fake ai


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## ToolSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> dickhead you know shit..Ive been banned longer then u have been around u regurgitating queer..You never even took dbol u fukkin joke so how would u know the difference in hg dbol or ug..once again zero experience but u think u know..I used to laugh at u when i was banned thinking who is this dumb newb acting all high and mighty to other newbs..I bet u really are a pig cop aint u dickhead


Ahhh there's the real bundy. Knew you'd show up eventually. 
Pretty much reinforced everything I've said. Your assumptions truly make me chuckle. Good thing insults lose their sting when coming from a junkie or I might have actually had my feelings hurt.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Ahhh there's the real bundy. Knew you'd show up eventually.
> Pretty much reinforced everything I've said. Your assumptions truly make me chuckle. Good thing insults lose their sting when coming from a junkie or I might have actually had my feelings hurt.



if u call smoking weed a junkie then ok..Ya motherfukker im me not like u a fake fuk..Everyone here knows me for many years dickhead they dont need a newb who doesnt know me to reinforce anything..Only girls and fags get their feelings hurt..


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

sorry op..I dont like this regurgitating fake fuk..I apologize to u..The nolva will get into the nip and stop the pain but u need a real ai to lower the estrogen..this is basic 101 aas I dont know why we need to argue about this..If i had to take nolva everytime i used test I would stop using test


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## ToolSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> sorry op..I dont like this regurgitating fake fuk..I apologize to u..*The nolva will get into the nip and stop the pain but u need a real ai to lower the estrogen..*this is basic 101 aas I dont know why we need to argue about this..If i had to take nolva everytime i used test I would stop using test



I was literally chuckling while reading this. It's EXACTLY what I was saying from the beginning. Your reading comprehension skills could use some work bud. You're so worked up on your e-fighting that you can't even put 2 and 2 together.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> I was literally chuckling while reading this. It's EXACTLY what I was saying from the beginning. Your reading comprehension skills could use some work bud. You're so worked up on your e-fighting that you can't even put 2 and 2 together.



tool honestly shut the fuk up already..get some experience with compounds instead of regurgitating other peoples knowledge...By the way the reason your so big on nolva is because your body is more female then male and u cant handle testosterone..


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 20, 2016)

Let's put an end to this please, no need to dilute the OPs thread.

OP needs to hop on an AI, get bloodwork done in 2 weeks to see what's up, and go from there. No one here can tell him whether his AI is bunk, underdosed, too much or anything else with accuracy - bloodwork is the answer. 

He also needs a SERM to reverse the gyno, if it is legit full on gyno, because the AI isn't going to do a damn thing if gyno has already set in - Nolva/ralox ALONG with the AI is the way to go. 
Be prepared to go months before seeing an improvement but yes, its reversible. 

I don't want to hit you when your down but this has been covered endlessly across this board, including in the stickies, and considering you've been a member here since Feb...I don't understand the lack of research on your part. 
Your the one who's going to feel these side effects so it should be extremely important you to proactively research methods of safe AAS use rather than reacting to the sides and then expecting to be fed answers by the members here.
Something to keep in mind for the future.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2016)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Let's put an end to this please, no need to dilute the OPs thread.
> 
> OP needs to hop on an AI, get bloodwork done in 2 weeks to see what's up, and go from there. No one here can tell him whether his AI is bunk, underdosed, too much or anything else with accuracy - bloodwork is the answer.
> 
> ...



thank u mrzilla I agree..In my honest opinion I dont think gyno can reach danger levels that fast..I think he has a bunk ai because for street dealer its very easy to make a quick buck selling bunk pills as ai..I think he has high estrogen thats giving him the burning painful feeling in the nip that just about every test user has felt many times..Real hg adex or asin will stop that in a matter of a week..If he wants to over kill use the nolva as well..Im more into using less drug then more..If he had a real ai this could have been avoided


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 20, 2016)

I agree with Bundy only because he's only three weeks into the cycle. A legit ai should knock that out, I've seen it manyyyy times. But he needs some bloods done asap


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 21, 2016)

2 days into Nolva @ 10mg/daily, still running adex @ .5mg e3d

Lumps now forming around left nip, pea sized

AI is branded "AHI" right on the pill indicating anastrozole, from local TRT clinic through a friend I really don't think bum

*Would a TRT clinic be able to help with this if I threw money at it? They can't script nolva so not sure what they'd be able to do to help with gyno


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## ToolSteel (Dec 21, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> 2 days into Nolva @ 10mg/daily, still running adex @ .5mg e3d
> 
> Lumps now forming around left nip, pea sized
> 
> ...


From the sound of it, you're squeezing your tits every 20 min to see I'd they've changed. STOP IT!!! Poking around only makes things worse. 
Nolva up to 20 minimum. I'd go 40. Gyno isn't a game. 
I doubt the Ai is bunk coming from a clinic but there's always a chance. Do you have ANY other high e sides?


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## deejeff442 (Dec 21, 2016)

Man some roid rage going on lol. Just ****ing with you guys.
I am on my 5th cycle and still ask questions.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 21, 2016)

deejeff442 said:


> Man some roid rage going on lol. Just ****ing with you guys.
> I am on my 5th cycle and still ask questions.



We're just passionate about helping this kid and his tits lol


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## ToolSteel (Dec 21, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> We're just passionate about helping this kid and his tits lol



I'll drink to that


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## deejeff442 (Dec 21, 2016)

See I helped you 2 make up now kiss lol


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## ToolSteel (Dec 22, 2016)

deejeff442 said:


> See I helped you 2 make up now kiss lol


Eat my shorts!


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 23, 2016)

Update: Day 4 of Nolva @10mg still no help

Considering bumping adex up to .5 eod

About to resupply. Should I get an assload of Nolva to keep running until cycle is up (and then PCT with) or get letro (found a good reverse protocol)?


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## ToolSteel (Dec 23, 2016)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Update: Day 4 of Nolva @10mg still no help
> 
> Considering bumping adex up to .5 eod
> 
> About to resupply. Should I get an assload of Nolva to keep running until cycle is up (and then PCT with) or get letro (found a good reverse protocol)?


Dude how often are you checking your tits


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## Maijah (Dec 23, 2016)

Have you tried aromasin? I prefer it over adex big-time.


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## Seeker (Dec 23, 2016)

This thread is frustrating as hell. From the beginning bloodwork should have been done immediately. Your symptoms are forming into permanent gyno and you just continue.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 23, 2016)

gotta be bunk products..Its not easy to get real pharma shit..Im calling bunk


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## M1seryD1str1ct (Dec 29, 2016)

Update:

Running nolva 10mg/daily, adex .5mg/e3d for a week and a half now 

Nips have STOPPED getting worse, just left soft with a lump in the left one. I believe E is lowered now as the red skin, hot flashes, etc have dissipated.

4 weeks left on cycle to combat the gyno remnant. Bumping up to 20mg/daily of liquid Nolva coupled with he adex/e3d. Might transition to exemestane from adex.

I feel the Nolva is doing me good, others advise kill it with a letrozole protocol but it may do as much harm as good as letro is rough.

Getting an estrogen panel next week.

Thoughts?


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## FUA225 (Feb 4, 2021)

M1seryD1str1ct said:


> Update:
> 
> Running nolva 10mg/daily, adex .5mg/e3d for a week and a half now
> 
> ...



I literally just saw my skin in the mirror today and freaked out because it was all red tinted, my skin started to feel super tight, and when I lay down I cant stop feeling my heart coming out of my chest. On my 3rd week of first cycle and wasn’t sure if I should go to the hospital or not hahah now I know what I’ll do!!! 
Sorry no answer but I’m glad your feeling better man


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## Adrenolin (Feb 4, 2021)

FUA225 said:


> I literally just saw my skin in the mirror today and freaked out because it was all red tinted, my skin started to feel super tight, and when I lay down I cant stop feeling my heart coming out of my chest. On my 3rd week of first cycle and wasn’t sure if I should go to the hospital or not hahah now I know what I’ll do!!!
> Sorry no answer but I’m glad your feeling better man



How do you relate to this post where op talks of himself fighting gynecomastia


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## FUA225 (Feb 4, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> How do you relate to this post where op talks of himself fighting gynecomastia



No gyno for me just red skin


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## pepsi14612 (Mar 17, 2021)

I think ur allergic to something they mix in it, try a new source


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