# Jon Jones is Back



## BigGameHunter (Sep 30, 2015)

He was sentenced in court for his cocaine induced traffic accident, 5 years probation and 72 charity appearances to visit with youngsters about the error of his ways.

This is good for MMA he is one of the best I have ever seen in the cage and I hope he keeps his act together.  I have been critical of him and mostly his coach in the past (may not change) but moving forward Im glad to see an end to this.

I have a lot to do today.  Before it is pointed out that Nick Diaz was fuked by the NASC and comparisons (of which I agree) of the two I would like to point out that Jones has paid out the rear for this.  Not fighting for a year, loosing sponsors, legal fees in civil and criminal court are well in the 7 digit range by my estimation.  Hell in 94 Rickson Gracie was getting a whopping 7 grand for one appearance after his hotel, travel and board was paid.  Lets say Jones is worth 5K per appearance just to make it easy. 72 free appearances at his expense is over 360K. 

Anyway Im glad to see him back in the cage he belongs in.


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## NbleSavage (Sep 30, 2015)

Good for MMA & agree on all fronts, BGH. Jones paid a huge price & likely will continue to do so (who's going to sponsor him now?) but he's a tremendous fighter and still a young man who can (perhaps) learn from his mistakes.

x2 on Nick Diaz - thats just a political clusterf#ck. Diaz refused to kiss the ring & as such they threw the book at him.


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## jennerrator (Sep 30, 2015)

The Diaz brothers are an embarrassment....that is all


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Jenner said:


> The Diaz brothers are an embarrassment....that is all



Oh no you didn't, Nick is awesome


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## jennerrator (Sep 30, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Oh no you didn't



white trash to the T..................................


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Jenner said:


> white trash to the T..................................



Strike 2 he's not white.


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## MS1605 (Sep 30, 2015)

The part that sucks is Jenner is absolutely right. Why that sucks is because the Diaz brothers are absolutely phenomenal fighters. Too bad they are cocky pricks....


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## jennerrator (Sep 30, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Strike 2 he's not white.



last time I checked...they were white


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Jenner said:


> last time I checked...they were white



Check again the last name shoulda been your first clue, Nick Diaz is phenomenal!








MS1605 said:


> The part that sucks is Jenner is absolutely right. Why that sucks is because the Diaz brothers are absolutely phenomenal fighters. Too bad they are cocky pricks....



Nick & Nate are  badass what did you expect! They kick ass for a living dummy! I'm seriously about to punch a hole in this monitor!


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## MS1605 (Sep 30, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Nick & Nate are  badass what did you expect! They kick ass for a living dummy! I'm seriously about to punch a hole in this monitor!



I fought for 8 years. Im the most quiet, laid back, chilled person there is. Don't tell me you have to be a prick in order to be a "badass"...


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## HydroEJP88 (Sep 30, 2015)

I take nothing away from the Diaz brothers fighting ability, but that's as far as it goes. They are trash and complete assholes. No sympathy from me for his sentence. He knows that they test for it. His loss.

Jones on the other hand better get his ass in gear. He can be a legend in this sport if he keeps his nose to the grindstone. Too many people around him dragging him down. He's better off with few to no friends imo.


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## jennerrator (Sep 30, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Check again the last name shoulda been your first clue, Nick Diaz is phenomenal!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



dude....they are fuuuuking white to me...I could care less about their last name...hahahahahahaha...please punch the monitor


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## HydroEJP88 (Sep 30, 2015)

Since we are talking MMA and I don't feel like starting another thread.

Did anyone else see Uriah Hall ko Gegard Mousasi? 

Brutal and perfectly timed


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Lets all bow and curtsy to everybody before we bash their brains in. Otherwise all the naysayers will try to discredit us and call us trash LMAO are you a man or a mouse ?


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## Beedeezy (Sep 30, 2015)

Diaz is a dick. He puts asses in the seat and puts on a show. The thing I respect about the Diaz brothers is, that's really how they are. They are shit talkers and get in the opponents head, but if they ran into that same person on the street they would throw down. 
As for Nick knowing they test for it, the UFC just changed their drug policy. The new policy you pretty much have to show up high for the fight to be positive. 
Where the problem is, he PASSED TWO 'WADA' blood test, but failed a Nevada state urine test. How the **** that happened is where the upset comes from. Passing two test from the most strict agency in the world is suspicious and he is fined some $150k and not allowed to fight in Vegas. 
John jones, glad to hear he's back and I can NOT wait to see if him and weidman fight. Chris said he wants to fight the best and would not want to leave the sport until fighting jones.


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## jennerrator (Sep 30, 2015)

lmfao...you either:

1. Don't know anything about these two..or
2. Condone their bullshit

I don't give a rats ass how great of a player/fighter/etc...someone is..the fact that they are trash is just that...plain and simple...and trash isn't the only word, I'm just not going to waste my time...


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Jenner said:


> dude....they are fuuuuking white to me...I could care less about their last name...hahahahahahaha...please punch the monitor



dude.......they are mexican regardless of the last name. You obviously don't know enough about the Diaz brothers to be calling them white trash embarrassments. World renowned MMA fighter that competes in triathlons.


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## jennerrator (Sep 30, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> dude.......they are mexican regardless of the last name. You obviously don't know enough about the Diaz brothers to be calling them white trash embarrassments.



hahahahaha...I know enough and I stand by my statements...and I'm moving on...


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Jenner said:


> hahahahaha...I know enough and I stand by my statements...and I'm moving on...



Name one thing. Although you try to discredit you still never edit


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## Assassin32 (Sep 30, 2015)

Good to see Jon Jones back. The dude is an amazing talent. If he gets his head on straight, imagine how good he will be going forward. The UFC needs him badly, he's the best MMA fighter in the world and he was missed. Hopefully we won't have to wait to long to watch him fight again.

The Diaz brothers are complete trash, and mediocre fighters. Being a ****in asshole douchebag and being a fighter have nothing to do with each other. There are countless great fighters that are class acts and nice, respectful guys. Nothing better than letting some dickhead run his mouth and then knocking him stiff.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> The Diaz brothers are complete trash, and mediocre fighters.



Mediocre fighters don't make it to the higher ranks of ufc. They don't put them up against guys like gsp on the main card of pay perview events that gross millions of dollars. They dont last more than a round with the likes of gsp. Lost the decision with gsp won the decision BJ penn. the list goes on and on your statement is ignorant.


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## Assassin32 (Sep 30, 2015)

Nick Diaz's career UFC record is 7-7. Nate's record in his last 15 UFC fights is 7-8. You call it whatever you want, I call it mediocre.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> Nick Diaz's career UFC record is 7-7. Nate's record in his last 15 UFC fights is 7-8. You call it whatever you want, I call it mediocre.



7-7 against the highest ranking MMA fighters in the world is a mediocre fighter ? That's an ignorant and ludicrous statement. A mediocre fighter wouldn't last 10 seconds in the octagon with those fighters. Show some respect! These ufc guys are all champions! Who are you to wipe your ass with this dude ?

Does this looks like the handy work of a mediocre fighter ?







[/IMG]


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## Dex (Sep 30, 2015)

Jenner said:


> The Diaz brothers are an embarrassment....that is all



Jones and his screaming mother are not far behind.


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## jennerrator (Sep 30, 2015)

Dex said:


> Jones and his screaming mother are not far behind.



lol, not surprised.........there are only a select few I have any respect for


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## Assassin32 (Sep 30, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> 7-7 against the highest ranking MMA fighters in the world is a mediocre fighter ? That's an ignorant and ludicrous statement. A mediocre fighter wouldn't last 10 seconds in the octagon with those fighters. Show some respect! These ufc guys are all champions! Who are you to wipe your ass with this dude ?
> 
> Does this looks like the handy work of a mediocre fighter ?
> 
> ...



It called context you ****in idiot. The Chicago Bears are 0-3, they're are an awful football team. Yes, they're still in the NFL, so they have some of the best players in the world but in the context of the NFL, they are an awful football team. Just like in the landscape of the UFC, the Diaz brothers are mediocre fighters. Jesus Christ it's like talking to a ****in kindergartner.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 30, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> It called context you ****in idiot. The Chicago Bears are 0-3, they're are an awful football team. Yes, they're still in the NFL, so they have some of the best players in the world but in the context of the NFL, they are an awful football team. Just like in the landscape of the UFC, the Diaz brothers are mediocre fighters. Jesus Christ it's like talking to a ****in kindergartner.



Those are team sports. Your not going to wiggle your way outa this one by calling me an idiot. Do you think GSP is thinking oh this guy is just mediocre fighter right there. Hell fukking no he ain't! He's in the fight of his life right there against NIck Diaz you dummy!


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## Assassin32 (Sep 30, 2015)

I'm not trying to wiggle out of anything and you are an idiot. You're opinion doesn't make you right. Please go away and don't comment on my posts anymore. I don't like you.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 1, 2015)

I've made my points on the Diaz duo before. I have personally seen each of them give respect and fall in line and behave if asked to even with people watching.  I tend to be a little more forgiving of them and believe their behavior is more of a mental disorder than bad behavior but when the two components combine it looks very bad. I can understand why some feel the way they do on either side. It's one of those rare instances IMO where no one is wrong.

They are average grapplers and fighters. Zig your right about GSP being in the fight of his life though. He was, but mostly because of Nicks willingness to die trying. Not so much on skill. Dana made that fight for the fans more so than Nick being a top contender.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 1, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> They are average grapplers and fighters. Zig your right about GSP being in the fight of his life though. He was, but mostly because of Nicks willingness to die trying. Not so much on skill. Dana made that fight for the fans more so than Nick being a top contender.



This is spot on.


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## HydroEJP88 (Oct 1, 2015)

An article by Greg Savage about Jones.

http://m.sherdog.com/news/articles/The-Savage-Truth-Broken-Bones-93271


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## Dex (Oct 1, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> *Mediocre fighters don't make it to the higher ranks of ufc.* They don't put them up against guys like gsp on the main card of pay perview events that gross millions of dollars. They dont last more than a round with the likes of gsp. Lost the decision with gsp won the decision BJ penn. the list goes on and on your statement is ignorant.



This is completely false. The UFC is all about the money and selling tickets. Was Brock Lesnar one of the best fighters? He is mediocre but had a big name and sold tickets. Yes he is a freak and very athletic but he is not a fighter. CM Punk is also going to be in the UFC to sell tickets. The Diaz brothers sell tickets as well...because everybody knows their name due to their trash attitudes. The UFC is going downhill fast and becoming more like WWF, especially with all the Mexicans coming in the ring with their damn masks and costumes now.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 1, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> I'm not trying to wiggle out of anything and you are an idiot. You're opinion doesn't make you right. Please go away and don't comment on my posts anymore. I don't like you.



The feeling is mutual ignorant tard !


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## TheLupinator (Oct 1, 2015)

Jenner said:


> The Diaz brothers are an embarrassment....that is all




Don't you have a crossfit class to go to?


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## TheLupinator (Oct 1, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Oh no you didn't, Nick is awesome



Smartest thing you've ever said


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## TheLupinator (Oct 1, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> Nick Diaz's career UFC record is 7-7. Nate's record in his last 15 UFC fights is 7-8. You call it whatever you want, I call it mediocre.



As an anti-mayweather fan - you should think that record doesn't mean anything.... or does that only apply to mayweather? And we won't even get into Nick BEATING Condit and Silva. Horse shit fights.

BUT you don't look at record - you look at skill. Nick has some of the best stand up in MMA and some of the best BJJ... just look at the 170 division - Lawler, Hendrix, Condit, MacDonald.... name a guy at 170 with better BJJ (and if you say Demian Mia you're a faggot). 

I'd love to see any of those guys (who are great fighters) out do Diaz on the feet. They all beat him wrestling which is the safest form of fighting.


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## TheLupinator (Oct 1, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> I've made my points on the Diaz duo before. I have personally seen each of them give respect and fall in line and behave if asked to even with people watching.  I tend to be a little more forgiving of them and believe their behavior is more of a mental disorder than bad behavior but when the two components combine it looks very bad. I can understand why some feel the way they do on either side. It's one of those rare instances IMO where no one is wrong.




It's like politics. People share their opinion on issues (in this case a fighter) that they have only heard one side of every story from. It's the equivalent to getting all your news from Fox or NBC. People think they know the Diaz brothers personally or some shit. Or maybe they believe the MEDIA reports an unbiased account (the dumbest of the bunch). etheir way anyone who has had multiple interactions with them respect them - From Ronda Rousey to Ariel Helwani to the majority of fighters in the UFC (save Nurmagomedov) to the children they teach BJJ to.


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## Beedeezy (Oct 1, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> It called context you ****in idiot. The Chicago Bears are 0-3, they're are an awful football team. Yes, they're still in the NFL, so they have some of the best players in the world but in the context of the NFL, they are an awful football team.


WTF! I'm a Bears fan, you leave them out of this....
Wait, we are fukking awful. Please resume


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## Beedeezy (Oct 1, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> anyone who has had multiple interactions with them respect them - From Ronda Rousey to Ariel Helwani to the majority of fighters in the UFC.


This is true, even Donald Cerrone who was shit talked like a mother fukker by them said he has mad respect for them and one day would totally sit down for beers with them.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 1, 2015)

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/13823-Don-t-Be-Scared-Homie

A blast from the past but some good posts in there about these two and well nearly everyone LOL.  BTW Jenn was Jenn even back then.


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## HydroEJP88 (Oct 1, 2015)

I just want to know why Z always edits his posts


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 1, 2015)

HydroEJP88 said:


> I just want to know why Z always edits his posts



I have a feeling he will straighten us out shortly.


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## Tren4Life (Oct 1, 2015)

Can I just say that I don't watch UFC at all but that is the greatest thread ever!!!


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 1, 2015)

Tren4Life said:


> Can I just say that I don't watch UFC at all but that is the greatest thread ever!!!



You should. You should train, you would be a beast in 2 years. 

I consider you my brother, you remind me of a white Nick Diaz. The good traits.


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## MS1605 (Oct 1, 2015)

Beedeezy said:


> WTF! I'm a Bears fan, you leave them out of this....
> Wait, we are fukking awful. Please resume



HAHAH, I had the SAME reaction. I was like "hold on mother****er, wait, wait, carry on..."

At least all my gay friends are excited about the cubies.


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## jennerrator (Oct 1, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> Don't you have a crossfit class to go to?



I thought you stopped coaching


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## jennerrator (Oct 1, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> It's like politics. People share their opinion on issues (in this case a fighter) that they have only heard one side of every story from. It's the equivalent to getting all your news from Fox or NBC. People think they know the Diaz brothers personally or some shit. Or maybe they believe the MEDIA reports an unbiased account (the dumbest of the bunch). etheir way anyone who has had multiple interactions with them respect them - From Ronda Rousey to Ariel Helwani to the majority of fighters in the UFC (save Nurmagomedov) to the children they teach BJJ to.



you are so much smarter than this.....


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## jennerrator (Oct 1, 2015)

this is the deal...

It is my opinion of them from their "actions"....I don't like "their" actions/behavior...that is my right. Maybe the majority of folks are followers and take the media to be the "truth" but believe it or not, and all you guys should fuuking know this by now...I form my own opinions/beliefs ETC...

Not once did I say they did not know how to fight...but again...MY opinion is they are not "great"...again, my opinion...my right.

So please...don't tell me how or why I have come to my opinion..it only shows ignorance.


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## TheLupinator (Oct 1, 2015)

Forming an opinion on one sided stories is ignorant.......


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## jennerrator (Oct 1, 2015)

lol, don't know why I waste my time....and actually....that is why I don't...carry on


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## Yaya (Oct 1, 2015)

-Ronda Rousey is a great fighter but not hot, just isn't as ugly as other female fighters

-Brock Lesnar wasn't the best heavyweight ever by any means but was a very good fighter.. his wins over a few respected heavyweights is a clear indication

-The NE patriots are awesome and I wonder how it feels for all you other members to live in cities with teams that suck so much this season.

-It is very likely that Donald Trump is going to be our next president

Jesus took on the sins of the world and I took on the hate of this thread


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## Yaya (Oct 1, 2015)

Also zeigler,  good job not backing down


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## trodizzle (Oct 1, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Strike 2 he's not white.



You can be white trash in spirit and actions even if you're not Caucasian my jigga!


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## ken Sass (Oct 1, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Check again the last name shoulda been your first clue, Nick Diaz is phenomenal!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



3 jerks, 2 of them being the diaz brothers


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## TheLupinator (Oct 2, 2015)

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/9/29/9419755/ufc-anti-doping-rep-jeff-novitzky-nac-got-diaz-case-wrong-vitor-belfort-mma-interview


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## TheLupinator (Oct 2, 2015)




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## BigGameHunter (Oct 2, 2015)

Lupi thanks for finding this. 

Everyone that knows me knows I am not an advocate for weed and how I feel about following rules. What I am most disappointed with are 2 things. 1- Power corrupts and these beurocrats took their opportunity to punish Nick in a reasonable manner and ruined his career. 2.- it's no secret this guy would be dead or in prison if it were not for this sport this overreach with no meaningful oversight/action from the governor makes it even worse.

What we see from Nick is a mental disorder (along with being a dumbass) he has paid dearly for his poor behavior in the past. This country is so uneducated in terms of understanding mental health and people with real disabilities. Unless you have lived with it or been responsible for someone with afflictions like this it's hard to understand. 

Here's what nobody's talking about. This is a kid that instead of turning to crime or to the government dole, that chose to work his way through those adversities with limited skill and has earyned a living on his own. That should be encouraged and protected. That should not be taken away because he hasn't the ability to express himself like Winston Churchill or Randy Coture for that matter.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 2, 2015)

More handy work of the former welterweight Strike Force Champion Nick Diaz 







[/IMG]


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## Assassin32 (Oct 2, 2015)

Directly from Freddie Roach's mouth. When asked about Nick Diaz's boxing skills in 2013 Roach said: "It's bullshit, his boxing is bullshit. He fires all arm punches, he walks forward and crosses his legs. His balance is always off. I'm not impressed." When asked what his best skills were Roach replied "He's got a lot of balls and he's very durable."

I really don't need to add anything, Freddie summed it up pretty good right there.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 2, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> Directly from Freddie Roach's mouth. When asked about Nick Diaz's boxing skills in 2013 Roach said: "It's bullshit, his boxing is bullshit. He fires all arm punches, he walks forward and crosses his legs. His balance is always off. I'm not impressed." When asked what his best skills were Roach replied "He's got a lot of balls and he's very durable."
> 
> I really don't need to add anything, Freddie summed it up pretty good right there.



Savage said the same thing over 2 yrs ago along with...

"Nick and Nate desperately need to learn to check leg kicks and utilize them as well."

Translation: "can u check a fukin leg kick since you won't throw one?" ...
Mate


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## jennerrator (Oct 2, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> Savage said the same thing over 2 yrs ago along with...
> 
> "Nick and Nate desperately need to learn to check leg kicks and utilize them as well."
> 
> ...



lol, I remember learning checks...I don't know how many times I took a kick but it sucked ass....


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## John Ziegler (Oct 2, 2015)

What ranks and titles have you held? Black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu under Cesar Gracie. WEC welterweight champ/ IFC welterweight champ / Strikeforce welterweight champion ?

Does this sound mediocre ?


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## John Ziegler (Oct 2, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> What ranks and titles have you held? Black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu under Cesar Gracie. WEC welterweight champ/ IFC welterweight champ / Strikeforce welterweight champion ?
> 
> Does this sound mediocre ?



Champion = mediocre ? Like I said before you can't wiggle your way out of this one Assasin32 







[/IMG]


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 2, 2015)

Zig I think your getting hung up on A32 and several others stating mediocre as it relates to Nicks skill.  His accomplishments in the cage it the mat were not questioned by A32 or anyone else.  Fuk that's why people Like him.

I'm pretty sure 32 can scrap if it makes it easier to understand.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 2, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> Zig I think your getting hung up on A32 and several others stating mediocre as it relates to Nicks skill.  His accomplishments in the cage it the mat were not questioned by A32 or anyone else.  Fuk that's why people Like him.
> 
> I'm pretty sure 32 can scrap if it makes it easier to understand.



He brings up Freddie Roach saying this and that what a joke. Of course he's going to talk that shit. He said all that just a few weeks before the GSP fight. When he was training GSP. Then look what happened Nick went toe to toe with him and didn't even get knocked out. A clumsy no foot boxer wouldn't stand 15 seconds with GSP. Nick is an outstanding boxer.

Judging by his ignorance I wouldn't doubt he's been in a ton of meaningless mediocre scraps and had his bell rung plenty.

I like this belt too big ole mark of a champion eagle on it. They don't give those out to mediocre's.






[/IMG]

I like this pic of Scott and Nick. Wow if that ain't thee eye of the tiger! Last I checked they weren't giving these out to white trash mediocre's.






[/IMG]

Pictures like these over rule opinion's and obliterate disagreement. Nick is a Champion and champions are not mediocre.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 2, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> He brings up Freddie Roach saying this and that what a joke. Of course he's going to talk that shit. He said all that just a few weeks before the GSP fight. When he was training GSP. Then look what happened Nick went toe to toe with him and didn't even get knocked out. A clumsy no foot boxer wouldn't stand 15 seconds with GSP. Nick is an outstanding boxer.
> 
> Judging by his ignorance I wouldn't doubt he's been in a ton of meaningless mediocre scraps and had his bell rung plenty.



Well if anyone would know it would be Freddie. GSP had to pick his poison that night I'll bet if you asked him he'd say he should have used his BJ Penn strategy (without vasoline).  

Just chill out we spoke about this...remember?  A disagreement does not translate to ignorance.


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## jennerrator (Oct 2, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> *A disagreement does not translate to ignorance*.



except for when the person keeps pushing it...


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2015)

Like and back eachother up all you want. That's what friends do I get that. But deep down inside you know I'm right. Nick is a champion and you just didn't know it till I outlined it for you. Otherwise you (Assasine32) would not spout off such foolery.


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## TheLupinator (Oct 3, 2015)

Freddie Roach is a great coach, but what he says is from a promotional stand point 90% of time. And MMA fighters are not on the same level with their hands as boxers, and for a plethora of reasons, never will be. So of course Roach is gonna talk shit, bc that's what he does. Andre Ward the #1 P4P fighter (since Mayweather retired) said the Nick is legit. So has Paulie Malignaggi, who is one of the most insightful boxing analyst out there.


And you want to look at track record - Nick stood in there with Silva (the greatest standup fighter in UFC history and +15lbs heavier), GSP, Condit, BJ Penn, Paul Daley... even KO'd Lawler back in the day..... He's fought some of the best standup fighters.... who wants to point out the fight Nick got dominated on the feet


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2015)

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## TheLupinator (Oct 3, 2015)

#2 P4P fighter in the world
#1 Pure boxer 


*Don't cross your feet* Lol


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## NbleSavage (Oct 3, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> #2 P4P fighter in the world
> #1 Pure boxer
> 
> 
> *Don't cross your feet* Lol



I'm missing your point here, Lupi. You seem to be suggesting that because someone at the pinnacle of a sport can get away with deviating from proven good form that said form is no longer good. I would also point out that this is simply pad work. Pads don't hit back when you lose balance.


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## TheLupinator (Oct 3, 2015)

NbleSavage said:


> I'm missing your point here, Lupi. You seem to be suggesting that because someone at the pinnacle of a sport can get away with deviating from proven good form that said form is no longer good. I would also point out that this is simply pad work. Pads don't hit back when you lose balance.




Yes. When you are at the top of the sport and someone goes "well he....... insert technical critique...." it's a moot point. 

For example, people always say "keep your hands up"... which is sound boxing technique, but for some reason the best defensive fighters don't..... there is good technique, but there is also no law to fighting and there are 100 different ways to fight (100 different kinds of good technique). I believe that is why MMA, and the UFC in particular, was created in the first place.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 3, 2015)

So Guillermo Rigondeaux is an undefeated boxer & beautiful to watch. I don't recall though where anyone on this thread criticized his technique. I'll be the first to agree that at the top of any sport you'll find the champions often transcend conventional form. Seeking to model your own technique after theirs though would be a mistake in the vast majority of cases. This is why fundamentals exist in any sport, as they've been proven effective in most situations relevant to their sport. For those who are able to make the form their own through mastery, even then the behavioral pattern is predictable if not the implementation.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Like and back eachother up all you want. That's what friends do I get that. But deep down inside you know I'm right. Nick is a champion and you just didn't know it till I outlined it for you.



Everyone here knows that Bro.  People can be successful in any endeavor despite their skill level. Nick has proven his ability to do that, I think that is mutually agreed upon by all.

One persons perception of greatness will always differ from another.  Kind of like Joe Rogans over use of the words "world class".  Its relative to the experience/perception of the person in the conversation.

Let me outline this for you...I respect the moxy and all and I really am trying to look out for you. If you dont appreciate it I will stop and let your behavior decide your fate here. Trust me, regardless of your perception,  there are about a dozen or so here that will mud check your a$$ back to where ever you came from.  The choice is yours.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> Everyone here knows that Bro.  People can be successful in any endeavor despite their skill level. Nick has proven his ability to do that, I think that is mutually agreed upon by all.
> 
> One persons perception of greatness will always differ from another.  Kind of like Joe Rogans over use of the word "world class".  Its relative to the experience/perception of the person in the conversation.
> 
> Let me outline this for you...I respect the moxy and all and I really am trying to look out for you. If you dont appreciate it I will stop and let your behavior decide your fate here. Trust me, regardless of your perception,  there are about a dozen or so here that will mud check your a$$ back to where ever you came from.  The choice is yours.



Why would I get mud checked ? The only person I disrespected is the one that started the spit spat by calling me an idiot when I called out his falicy.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Why would I get mud checked ? The only person I disrespected is the one that started the spit spat by calling me an idiot when I called out his falicy.



God Bless you Brother but you act like an idiot sometimes.  Plus he is one of the most respected members here so when solid guys like him get a gut full of your $hit it is telling.  Like I told you in PM weeks ago state your case and argue your point.  Man you dont have to rub $hit in your hair and everyone elses to prove a point.  Get your $hit together and straighten up man.  I am pulling for you at this point.


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## TheLupinator (Oct 3, 2015)

NbleSavage said:


> So Guillermo Rigondeaux is an undefeated boxer & beautiful to watch. I don't recall though where anyone on this thread criticized his technique. I'll be the first to agree that at the top of any sport you'll find the champions often transcend conventional form. Seeking to model your own technique after theirs though would be a mistake in the vast majority of cases. This is why fundamentals exist in any sport, as they've been proven effective in most situations relevant to their sport. For those who are able to make the form their own through mastery, even then the behavioral pattern is predictable if not the implementation.



So who's fundamentals do we follow - Mexican or Cuban? They have completely opposite techniques when it comes to boxing.... American, UK, Eastern European - it's all boxing, but still different techniques.




BigGameHunter said:


> People can be successful in any endeavor despite their skill level. Nick has proven his ability to do that, I think that is mutually agreed upon by all.
> 
> One persons perception of greatness will always differ from another.




I concur, Sir.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> So who's fundamentals do we follow



America!!!


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## NbleSavage (Oct 3, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> So who's technique do we follow - Mexican or Cuban? They have completely opposite styles/techniques when it comes to boxing.... American, UK, Eastern European - it's all boxing, but still different techniques.



Learn the fundamentals from a coach that you find to be credible and a style that best suits your natural athletic aptitude. I learned Western boxing (American) from a Mexican coach to compliment my Thai boxing which I was taught by a Filipino. Try them all, determine which you are best at and which you find most enjoyable. Debating the most effective style at the pro level is all context specific. All the UFC has taught us is that in MMA you can be effective if you're very good at one thing or adequate at several things but to be a lasting champion you'd better be very good at most things. 

Back to the original point of this thread, I don't find Nick Diaz to have demonstrated he's elite at stand-up or grappling at least not during his UFC tenure. He's got a tremendous heart, but IMO he's faced better strikers and better grapplers - in some cases those being the same person (you mentioned GSP and Andy as two good examples). His technique is not whats enabled the success he's had IMO, his sheer determination has and I respect him tremendously for that but I'd not seek to emulate him stylistically.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2015)

Dex said:


> Was Brock Lesnar one of the best fighters? He is mediocre but had a big name and sold tickets.



Now the former ufc heavyweight champion is a mediocre too. Sorry BGH I just had to touch base on this one. This is even more gut wrenching to hear than the whole Diaz thing. But I promise I won't go there again.







[/IMG]


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> Now the former ufc heavyweight champion is a mediocre too. Sorry BGH I just had to touch base on this one. This is even more gut wrenching to hear than the whole Diaz thing. But I promise I won't go there again.



No apology necessary... to me any way.  

As far as the Brock thing goes now you and Jenn agree on something...dont fuk that up.  She will cut a bitch.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> No apology necessary... to me any way.
> 
> As far as the Brock thing goes now you and Jenn agree on something...dont fuk that up.  She will cut a bitch.



Unless your trying to say Brock was great then I would leave that alone.  I like Brock Jenn and I dont talk about it.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2015)

I think it might already be too late she already no likey me


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> I think it might already be too late she already no likey me



Well then square up with my friend A32 and move on.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> square up with my friend A32








[/IMG]


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## Yaya (Oct 3, 2015)

Heath Herring, Randy Couture, Shane Carwin and Frank Mir.  

I've said it and I will say it again, Lesnar wasn't the top heavyweight of all time or even close but he had limited training in anything besides wrestling and he beat all those guys I just named. IMO fedor is the best heavyweight of all time as of now, it was Cain but after seeing how he lost to Werdum I'm starting to doubt that opinion. I say fedor because he had an outstanding dominant stretch...granted he never fought the top guys in the UFC and probably wouldn't beat most of them but still.. a very impressive stretch


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> [/IMG]



That was a punk move.  Your on your own fuk stick.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> That was a punk move.  Your on your own fuk stick.



Better but Not what I had in mind.


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## jennerrator (Oct 3, 2015)

Jesus. ...Brock belongs in WWE...end of story, I'm not going to argue it. I know enough about Brock as we shared a coach.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

Jenner said:


> Jesus. ...Brock belongs in WWE...end of story, I'm not going to argue it. I know enough about Brock as we shared a coach.



Your Hot!!!!!!!!!!


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## jennerrator (Oct 3, 2015)

BigGameHunter said:


> Your Hot!!!!!!!!!!



Lol, we've talked about this


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2015)

I know this Assasin32 is a heavyweight dude. He and Tren4life don't like me and and always kick my ass. That's why the spit spats are worth a toss. I say this and that about those dudes and they swat and clap at me like a piss ant everybody knows that. I get carried away on that score of it and apologize to you Assasin32 for that.


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## Assassin32 (Oct 3, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> I know this Assasin32 is a heavyweight dude. He and Tren4life don't like me and and always kick my ass. That's why the spit spats are worth a toss. I say this and that about those dudes and they swat and clap at me like a piss ant everybody knows that. I get carried away on that score of it and apologize to you Assasin32 for that.



Apology accepted Ziegler. It's fine. The thing is bullshitting about Boxing, MMA Football, Hockey, Music etc. is a blast. I do it with my buddys all the time. We go round and round about fighters when we get together and watch fights and have a few beers. But it's not called a debate when you automatically go to the "dummy" or "ignorant" card right off the bat when someone doesn't agree with you. Debating is fun when it's a civil give and take. When you automatically get all mad and pissy when someone doesn't agree with you is when there is a problem. HeavyDeads(where the hell has he been) and I talk shit about about each others football teams and it's all in good fun. I love shit like that....and by the way, I didn't start shit in this thread. I made one post, then you called it ignorant(twice) and ludicrous before I ever responded again. And you called MS1605 a "dummy" for having a difference in opinion from yours.


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## goodfella (Oct 3, 2015)

GOOD! He can come back and kick the shit outta that short n fat nerd, who's always walking around with his head pointing down, while looking up. Make sure bones knocks that chip of his shoulder and puts him back in his place! So sick of seeing or hearing DC's butt do anything. Dudes really became the worst!


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## Assassin32 (Oct 3, 2015)

goodfella said:


> GOOD! He can come back and kick the shit outta that short n fat nerd, who's always walking around with his head pointing down, while looking up. Make sure bones knocks that chip of his shoulder and puts him back in his place! So sick of seeing or hearing DC's butt do anything. Dudes really became the worst!



I hear ya Fella. Is it just me or has he become even more insufferable since he got the interim belt?


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## TheLupinator (Oct 3, 2015)

NbleSavage said:


> Back to the original point of this thread, I don't find Nick Diaz to have demonstrated he's elite at stand-up or grappling at least not during his UFC tenure. He's got a tremendous heart, but IMO he's faced better strikers and better grapplers - in some cases those being the same person (you mentioned GSP and Andy as two good examples). His technique is not whats enabled the success he's had IMO, his sheer determination has and I respect him tremendously for that but I'd not seek to emulate him stylistically.




I think his BJJ is elite and his boxing is above most in the UFC. Not great MMA standup, but his boxing is crisp - weight transfer, jabs effectively, throws hooks to the body, combinations to the body then head - All under utilized in MMA. Just the way he uses his jab and digs his hooks in, you just don't see that in MMA. Of course this is from a pure boxing stand point, but that's all I ever defended Nick on - his boxing and BJJ.

I do agree his determination is his greatest asset, but determination doesn't get you through 5 rounds with Silva, GSP, Condit.

Nate runs more on pure heart and toughest and look where he has gotten. Good fighter but not anywhere near the skill and fighting IQ of Nick.

I think Nick's downfall was his lack of wrestling and overall athleticism. Just wasn't explosive enough (even on his feet) to compete with GSP and Silva.... I still think he won the Condit fight 





Assassin32 said:


> The thing is bullshitting about Boxing, MMA Football, Hockey, Music etc. is a blast. I do it with my buddys all the time.




My boy is a huge Canelo fan. My #1 is GGG. The shit talking never ends... and I'm pretty sure if they ever fight our unborn children will be on the line.


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## Tren4Life (Oct 3, 2015)

Zeigler said:


> I know this Assasin32 is a heavyweight dude. He and Tren4life don't like me and and always kick my ass. That's why the spit spats are worth a toss. I say this and that about those dudes and they swat and clap at me like a piss ant everybody knows that. I get carried away on that score of it and apologize to you Assasin32 for that.



It's not that I don't like you. I don't like the way you conduct yourself when your in our home. These guys in the thread are well respected members of this board and I'm proud to call them brothers. 

When I came here I had to earn respect, I made a few mistakes along the way but never once did I ever call anyone names like you have here in this thread. 

My wife always says that if you give people enough time, their true colors always shine through.

Not trying to high jack the thread, I just felt I needed to say something 


Carry on folks.


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## jennerrator (Oct 3, 2015)

can we now have a group hug.......................:beaten::32 (20):


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## jennerrator (Oct 3, 2015)

on another note...that's why I just stop, when you have to start defending who you are...it's not worth it to me..I don't care who the person or topic is....and I'm going to do my run now so suck it bitches


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## NbleSavage (Oct 3, 2015)

Jenner said:


> on another note...that's why I just stop, when you have to start defending who you are...it's not worth it to me..I don't care who the person or topic is....and I'm going to do my run now so suck it bitches



Good luck with the 5K and remind me you are owed a proper spanking for your insolence when you return


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## jennerrator (Oct 3, 2015)

NbleSavage said:


> Good luck with the 5K and remind me you are owed a proper spanking for your insolence when you return



lol, it's a baby race but they all count  who knows, I might get a wild hair to run a marathon before I die 

got my "Fxck Cancer" gear for the 1/2 next weekend! 

thanks babe and I'll remind you!:32 (16):


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 3, 2015)

Tren4Life said:


> in our home.



Best explanation yet.  Thank you T4L


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## TheLupinator (Oct 3, 2015)

Z, if you ever take a conversation off of combat sports and put it on your bullshit again I'll fuccking kill you


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## jennerrator (Oct 3, 2015)

Jenner said:


> can we now have a group hug.......................:beaten::32 (20):



guess not, lmao.......


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## Assassin32 (Oct 4, 2015)

TheLupinator said:


> I think his BJJ is elite and his boxing is above most in the UFC. Not great MMA standup, but his boxing is crisp - weight transfer, jabs effectively, throws hooks to the body, combinations to the body then head - All under utilized in MMA. Just the way he uses his jab and digs his hooks in, you just don't see that in MMA. Of course this is from a pure boxing stand point, but that's all I ever defended Nick on - his boxing and BJJ.
> 
> I do agree his determination is his greatest asset, but determination doesn't get you through 5 rounds with Silva, GSP, Condit.
> 
> ...



Same thing with me and my cousin Lupi. My cuz thunks Canelo is gonna knockout GGG. I'm think GGG is gonna have to much power for him and we go round and round and round, that fight has to happen so we can end it.


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## goodfella (Oct 4, 2015)

Tough loss for gus tonight. Would have enjoyed seeing him taking it, but I'm guessing he's off the juice, because when he fought jones he was a bit more fuller and bigger and could also take shots a bit easier. Not taking anything away from the dude tho


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 4, 2015)

goodfella said:


> Tough loss for gus tonight. Would have enjoyed seeing him taking it, but I'm guessing he's off the juice, because when he fought jones he was a bit more fuller and bigger and could also take shots a bit easier. Not taking anything away from the dude tho



I didnt rent it. Did you see it?.  I read they were both beaten up pretty bad.  And Gus floored DC at one point.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 5, 2015)

BGH, was a good fight. DC applied constant pressure, to the point of chasing Gus down on multiple occasions. Gus did well for the most part keeping his back off the cage. DC did his damage in the clinch with some punishing uppercuts from the plum. Gus landed a crushing knee to the jaw from the clinch & dropped DC. Both took a fair amount of damage but DC was clearly the aggressor and controlled the space. Great fight, judges got it right IMO.


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