# Ephedrine - Basic Understadning & Application



## TheLupinator (Aug 25, 2014)

*Ephedrine - Basic Understanding & Application*

What is Ephedrine?

Simply put, ephedrine is a stimulant - THE END. In terms of basic application for fat loss, there is no need to go any further, but pharmaceutically speaking ephedrine is a sympathomimetic drug - meaning it stimulates the release of noradrenaline, which acts as an non-selective adrenergic receptor agonistic... but we can just stick with stimulant – it hypes you up


Physiological effects of Ephedrine 

Some more boring stuff - Ephedrine affects the central nervous system as a non-selective adrenergic receptor agonist (agonist = activates). It is non-selective because it activates both alpha and beta receptors (in contrast to clen, which is a strong agonist of beta receptors only). We won’t get into sub-divisions of alpha and beta-receptors and for the purpose of this write-up (fat loss) we will stick with - activating alpha-receptors decreases lipolysis (bad or fat loss) and activating beta-receptors increase lipolysis (good for fat loss). The net activation of these receptors from ephedrine is in favor of fat loss, which is all that matters here. Ephedrine also works (extremely well I might add) to suppress your appetite - if diet is King, EC is the Queen pulling the strings - You will be significantly more in control of your diet due to the the lack of hunger / food cravings 


Ephedrine Application

Ephedrine has been shown to be affective by itself through its physiological effects depicted above, but these mechanisms (like many others within the human body) are regulated by negative feedback “loops” that arise from adrenergic stimulation – this is where the notorious ECA (Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin) stack comes into play. Both caffeine and aspirin have shown to aid in fat loss when staked with ephedrine by helping to block signals that would in turn reduce the effects of ephedrine. Not only do they work well with ephedrine, caffeine specifically has been shown to synergistically increase the effects of ephedrine; In this case, ADDING caffeine to ephedrine is like MULTIPLYING their lipolytic effects together e.g. 3 + 2 = 6. From this point forward you should view ephedrine as inseparable from caffeine. 

Now while ECA is the original ephedrine stack, ECY has become increasingly popular in recent years. The “Y” of course standing for Yohimbine HCL (make sure you use Yohimbine HCL and not yohimbe bark / herb bullshit) which not only helps with blood flow and used to treat ED, but also is an alpha-adrenergic receptor antagonist. This means it deactivates the alpha-receptors (the ones that are bad for lipolysis). 


Ephedrine will always be stacked with caffeine and the addition of aspirin and/or yohimbine HCL is just icing on the cake - Your stack depends on how you tolerate each additional substance, your budget, goals, etc. 



Ephedrine Dosing / Cycling 

Single dose:
Ephedrine – 25mg HCL or Sulfate
Caffeine – 200mg
Aspirin – 81mg (baby aspirin)
Yohimbine HCL – 5mg


Week / Regimen
1) half dose 2x daily ~8hrs apart (one will be pre-workout)
2) half dose 3x daily ~4hrs apart (one will be pre-workout)
3) full dose pre-workout, 2 half doses spaced ~4hrs apart
4) 2 full doses, leave half dose for evening / closest to bed 
5-20) 3 full doses 
21-24) Pyramid down 

Pyramid down – reverse protocol – start by cutting your evening dose in half. Then cut your other non-pre-workout dose in half. Then cut your dosing to 2 x daily. You want to get down to 2 half doses daily or just one full pre-workout dose before coming completely off the stack. 

Note: You can pyramid up faster than what I have laid out i.e. upping dose every 3-5 days, But I would recommend riding the lowest dose possible while you are still getting the thermogenic (stimulatory & appetite suppressive) effects before bumping it up. Also you can go higher than 3 full doses – the half life is about 4hrs so you can easily get in 4 full doses within a day – just keep an eye on blood pressure. 


Also, I recommend cycling off ephedrine & caffeine for at least a week once you have built a significant resistance to regain sensitivity in your CNS – beta-blockers can help restore sensitively.


Precautions 

Like with all stimulants, long term use will tax the heart and elevate blood pressure - anyone with pre-existing conditions should keep an eye out for any disturbances in heart rhythm, as well as further elevated blood pressure. Also your body will build a tolerance over time, although due to ephedrine being a non-selective adrenergic agonist it will happen much slower than other stimulants like clen. Because of this higher does are needed - this will put unwanted strain on your CNS and will become cost ineffective, therefore pyrmaiding down once 4 (maybe 5) doses start to lose their effectiveness is essential.



Results

The results associated with ephedrine and caffeine use can be tremendous if used in the right way. The first time I ever made it to single digit % body fat was the first time I ran EC. With that in mind always remember the golden rule of fat loss – DIET IS KING. One of the greatest weapons EC will equip you with is appetite suppression. Ephedrine will allow you to control your nutritional intake and restrict calories with relative ease (Note: if you take EC and eat the same food in the same quantity, don’t expect the fat to magically melt away).

One of the first studies (linked below) done on EC to measure its lipolytic effect showed a “significant” difference in weight loss between the EC and placebo groups – the results over 16 weeks was an increase in weight loss of 25%. Meaning 75% came from diet. Outside of DNP, no supplement will have a greater impact on fat loss than diet.

Secondly, EC has shown to increase strength and focus (like most stimulatory supplements), which will equate to better workouts - increased endurance and muscle contractions. This makes EC a great addition to even a bulking diet used as a pre-workout supplement. 

With all these benefits contributing to your results, trained individuals should ultimately be looking at 2-4lbs of fat loss per week (without losing muscle or strength) given a proper caloric deficit is in place.





Summary of various studies on ephedrine / caffeine  
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1318281
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8384186
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12032741
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8384187


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## transcend2007 (Aug 25, 2014)

Great write up Lup!  

Do you have a recommended product?  Or, a supp shop that carries individual products that you have personally combined that work well?

I'm going to need to run this in a few months once my bulker is done (I know who in their right mind runs bulkers in the summer: Answer:  Married men)!


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## vineary2242 (Aug 25, 2014)

Very effective write up. 

Can you equate the relative strength of Ephedrine sulfate to ephedrine HCL?  Like is sulfate 90% as effective as HCL or what?  

When I was younger, I used to get ephedrine hcl from overseas as I couldn't get it in my area.  And now many guys I know now use Bronkaid and I wonder what is the effect of the relaxant on the overall effectiveness of using Bronkaid over real Ephedrine HCL.   Bronkaid has 400 mg of guaifenesin.  

If you have used Bronkaid and Ephedrine HCL in the past, is Bronkaid like 90% the same or 40% the same as using a real Ephedrine HCL stack???


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## Maijah (Aug 25, 2014)

A friend of mine hired a trainer to prepare  for a show. Since you can't get ephedra anymore where I'm at he goes to the pharmacy and buys these sinus tablets, then he somehow makes his own pills. My question is is this standard practice nowadays?


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## TheLupinator (Aug 25, 2014)

transcend2007 said:


> Great write up Lup!
> 
> Do you have a recommended product?  Or, a supp shop that carries individual products that you have personally combined that work well?
> 
> I'm going to need to run this in a few months once my bulker is done (I know who in their right mind runs bulkers in the summer: Answer:  Married men)!




I get mine from Walgreens - I use Bronkaid (ephedrine sulphate) - 60 x 25mg tabs for less than $15 and easily broken in half. All you have to do (at least in my state(s) NY and FL) is go to the pharmacist, ask for Bronkaid 60 tabs, and show ID - no prescription, no questions asked. Then grab some caffeine pills and you're all set.


Edit: I've had problems at CVS and Rite Aid multiple times... idky... I stick to Walgreens now


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## TheLupinator (Aug 25, 2014)

vineary2242 said:


> Very effective write up.
> 
> Can you equate the relative strength of Ephedrine sulfate to ephedrine HCL?  Like is sulfate 90% as effective as HCL or what?
> 
> ...




Bronkaid is real Ephedrine............. Not sure why you think ephedrine hcl is "real" while ephedrine sulphate is not 


Ephedrine HCl is ~82% ephedrine by weight.

Ephedrine sulfate is ~77% ephedrine by weight.

25 mg ephedrine HCl = 20.5 mg ephedrine

25 mg ephedrine sulfate = 19.25 mg ephedrine


The difference is negligible and considering the other options at the pharmacy (Primatene and Walgreens brand) that are ephedrine HCL cost much more than Bronkaid - Bronkaid is the only one that comes in 25mg pills - the others are 12.5mg and the price of Prima & generic WG is not even close half the price of Bronkaid. I bought them all before and did the exact calculation (while accounting for sulphate vs HCL % pure ephedrine) and Bronkaid was cheaper per mg of pure ephedrine.... 1 point for Bayer


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## TheLupinator (Aug 25, 2014)

Maijah said:


> A friend of mine hired a trainer to prepare  for a show. Since you can't get ephedra anymore where I'm at he goes to the pharmacy and buys these sinus tablets, then he somehow makes his own pills. My question is is this standard practice nowadays?



Ephedra generally means it is not standardized. Many studies have shown products (past diet pills) with ephedra cause a significant amount of adverse effects, which is why it was banned from weight loss supplements, while all studies with actual standardized ephedrine - short term / long term / on adolescants - have shown no significant side effects at all - these nutritional companies simply don't not have access or the capabilities to produce an ephedrine product that is comparable in quality to pharm grade. 

In conclusion - Go with pharmaceutical grade 


As far as "make his own pills" I'm assuming he means makes his own EC stack - He buys ephedrine (Bronkaid or similar) at the pharmacy and buys caffeine pills - then swallows one of each - Bam! you just made your own EC stack


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## vineary2242 (Aug 25, 2014)

TheLupinator said:


> Bronkaid is real Ephedrine............. Not sure why you think ephedrine hcl is "real" while ephedrine sulphate is not



thanks for the data appreciate it exactly the breakdown was looking for.  The "real" is just a wording choice not meaning it was fake or such.


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## TheLupinator (Aug 25, 2014)

vineary2242 said:


> Bronkaid has 400 mg of guaifenesin.





So does the other 2 options you get from the pharmacy (Primatene and Walgreens generic)


Idk why people are scared of guaifenesin........ it helps you breathe better 

Guaifenesin is used to relieve chest congestion. Guaifenesin may help control symptoms but does not treat the cause of symptoms or speed recovery. Guaifenesin is in a class of medications called expectorants. It works by thinning the mucus in the air passages to make it easier to cough up the mucus and clear the airways.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682494.html


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## bubbagump (Aug 25, 2014)

The stores here in missouri are super regulatory on who they sell the stuff to.  Its a bunch of shit.  Mainly because we're in the middle of meth central.  They are even starting to phase it out of Walgreens and CVS.   Fuggin meth head bastard mess it up for everybody.  I get treated like a scumbag for trying to buy a box of bronchaid.  I'm moving back to Iowa where people still got.treated with dignity.


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## mickems (Sep 7, 2014)

isn't guaifenesin also a muscle relaxant ? would that counter any aas use to any certain extent?


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## TheLupinator (Sep 7, 2014)

mickems said:


> isn't guaifenesin also a muscle relaxant ? would that counter any aas use to any certain extent?




Yes, but no one knows to what extent as it was never fully researched - most literature will tell you it "may have" muscle relaxant "properties"... certainly not something that will impair your workout when taken with ephedrine, and I won't even speculate on how negligible it is when compared to actual AAS. Bottom line: Bronkaid and caffeine will have you wired as fucck ready to crush weights


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## TheLupinator (Sep 7, 2014)

And can a mod correct the thread title, apparently I've forgotten how to spell.... Trini's rubbing off on me


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## Fsuphisig (Oct 31, 2014)

Has anyone tried to get bronkaid or such in florida ? I'll give it a try this weekend


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## TheLupinator (Oct 31, 2014)

Fsuphisig said:


> Has anyone tried to get bronkaid or such in florida ? I'll give it a try this weekend



yes. walgreens


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 8, 2014)

Interesting write up but a few points to note:

- Mixing yohimbe with ephedrine is bad idea since both have a significant impact on blood pressure & heart rate. 
If you HAVE to use both (which, unless your relatively lean already, I don't see why you do) separate the yohimbe from the ephedrine by at least 6hrs.

- Aspirin is also an unnecessary addition to the EC stack unless your already obese.
Aspirin's mechanism of action is to prevent prostaglandin production, which is one of the ways fat cells can limit fat loss. 
Studies have shown this to be only beneficial in obese individuals & therefore unnecessary for everyone else.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 8, 2014)

I'm not allowed to edit my original post but one last point to add:

Ephedrine does NOT need to be cycled if your interested in the thermogenic benefits rather than the appetite suppressant/energy/stimulant effects.

This is because ephedrine main mechanism of action is through increasing the body's natural production of adrenaline/noradrenaline & actually has a pretty weak binding affinity to beta receptors.
In fact, I recall one long term study showing the thermogenic effect to increase with time - so it certainly doesn't need to be cycled.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 8, 2014)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I'm not allowed to edit my original post but one last point to add:
> 
> Ephedrine does NOT need to be cycled if your interested in the thermogenic benefits rather than the appetite suppressant/energy/stimulant effects.
> 
> ...


Agreed about staying on for fat loss. Curious for more info about appetite suppression though. You imply that cycling it would be beneficial for appetite suppression or am I just reading into it?


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 8, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Agreed about staying on for fat loss. Curious for more info about appetite suppression though. You imply that cycling it would be beneficial for appetite suppression or am I just reading into it?



Your reading into it 

Lol what I meant was it does not need to be cycled for fat loss (the thermogenic increase in metabolism) but does need to be cycled for appetite suppression/stimulant sides.
Those extra benefits tend to go away within 2/3 weeks of use.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 8, 2014)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Your reading into it
> 
> Lol what I meant was it does not need to be cycled for fat loss (the thermogenic increase in metabolism) but does need to be cycled for appetite suppression/stimulant sides.
> Those extra benefits tend to go away within 2/3 weeks of use.


Gotcha. I am going to be looking into the possibility of taking EC with phentermine for longer term appetite suppression benefits.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 8, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Gotcha. I am going to be looking into the possibility of taking EC with phentermine for longer term appetite suppression benefits.



Interesting combination, I did try phen for a little while 2 years ago when messing around with different fat loss protocols.

As a strong norephedrine antagonist its a much stronger appetite suppressant than ephedrine but I remember this effect fading around 6 weeks into it - so you may have to cycle it. 

Insomnia was the main reason I gave up on phen, that and the fact that it became much more difficult to source. 
EC can affect sleep if taken too close to bedtime but combined with phen - too much for me so I swapped out the phen for sibutramine, which I found much more tolerable.


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## Frenchie (Dec 2, 2016)

> Week / Regimen
> 1) half dose 2x daily ~8hrs apart (one will be pre-workout)
> 2) half dose 3x daily ~4hrs apart (one will be pre-workout)
> 3) full dose pre-workout, 2 half doses spaced ~4hrs apart
> ...



I take forever to fall asleep if I take caffeine after 3pm ...
Will it work if I take at 7 pm and at lunch and I don't use this "program" ? I don't think I can go for three doses per day without impacting my sleep which is already bad.

Thanks for the help


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## mrmichael (Oct 23, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Your reading into it
> 
> Lol what I meant was it does not need to be cycled for fat loss (the thermogenic increase in metabolism) but does need to be cycled for appetite suppression/stimulant sides.
> Those extra benefits tend to go away within 2/3 weeks of use.



Does Benadryl do anything for resetting the receptors and if so at what dosage? I've been on DNP 500mg ED for over 3 weeks now. Looking to run 1 more week on it to finish up. I been using ECA for all it's perks, but I only have been using it 25mg/200mg Pre-Workout once per day. 

I was going to start today using it x3 per day for the extra thermo fat burning benefit to the max to finish up and keep the lethargy down alongside the app supp? Will It not help this week? It's been the only thing getting me through lifting on 500mg DNP


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## Grizzly911 (Oct 4, 2018)

Are these types of stimulants safe to stack if you have a history of anxiety and panic attacks?


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## Elivo (Oct 4, 2018)

Grizzly911 said:


> Are these types of stimulants safe to stack if you have a history of anxiety and panic attacks?



Might be, it all depends on how you react to stimulants. Personally I don’t find it much diff than taking a preworkout drink. But some people are much more sensitive to that stuff.

id say if you have used any stim type crap in the past and have been ok with it then you should be fine with EC stack.


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## Cozmo421 (Apr 6, 2020)

I get Bronkaid at Target (CVS) every month here in Florida. There’s a limit to how much you can buy each month thus why they scan your license. I get 2 boxes every month without any questions


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## chandy (Apr 6, 2020)

Cozmo421 said:


> I get Bronkaid at Target (CVS) every month here in Florida. There’s a limit to how much you can buy each month thus why they scan your license. I get 2 boxes every month without any questions



like u can just walk in ask for it? they scan ur license put u into a system saying u have bought it this month and then u can buy more once the month is up? no prescription or anything?


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## AndyGT01 (Oct 17, 2021)

I’m in NY, I’ll try hitting up Walgreens for Bronkaid. however, has anyone had any luck with reputable online sites to get Ephedrine or Bronkaid itself? I’m doing a cut and I’ve never tried this stuff. I heard the recommended doze is 25mg 3 times a day. 6 weeks take, 1 week taper off, repeat - for safest results. Kindly advice!


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## bugman (May 9, 2022)

read it again, sometimes old school is all you need.


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## JeffGoldblumLips (Oct 1, 2022)

chandy said:


> like u can just walk in ask for it? they scan ur license put u into a system saying u have bought it this month and then u can buy more once the month is up? no prescription or anything?


Seems that way.  I'm further up the east coast and target/walmart always have it in stock at the pharmacy.


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