# Looking for your opinions on my training plan



## Kingjpwn (Sep 13, 2021)

Hey guys! Looking for critique on my workout plan. The idea is atm to just increase weights on everything, not reps or sets.



Spoiler



1. Chest, calves
Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Weighted Dips 12 (no weight), 2 x 8 (rp to get 8)
Machine press 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Cable crossover 3 x 10
Machine fly 3 x 10 isohold 15 sec (if can)
Smith calf raise 3 x 10
Leg press calves 3 x 15 

2. Back, abs
Wide grip lat pull down, weight pyramid 5x10-15, 3 first "warm ups"
Bent over barbell row, working warm up 15, feeder, feeder, failure 5-8
Rope pullover 3 x 15-20
Cable row 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Shrugs 3 x 8-12
Hyperextension 3 x 15-20
Cable crunch 3 x failure
Reverse crunch 3 x failure
A1. Decline leg raises 3 x failure
A2. Plank 

3. Rest 

4. Shoulders, hamstrings
Rear delt fly 5 x 15-30
Seated smith ohp 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Cable lateral raise 3 x 10-12
Seated lateral raise 2 x 4+4+4+4+amrap 10 sec breaks, drop weight in half do one more amrap
Rdl 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Lying leg curl 14, 12, 10, 10 - 3ds and partials on two last sets
Leg curl 4x10 

5. Quads
Leg extension 4x10
Back squat 15, 12, 1 or 2 feeder, failure
Hack squat or smith front squat 15, 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Walking lunge 4x10
Hip adduction 3x15
Hip abduction 3x15 

6. Arms
Seated dumbbell curls 3 x 10-12
Standing hammer curls 3 x 10-12
Preacher curl 3 x 12-15
Ez bar curl 3 x 8-10
Tricep pushdown 3 x 10-12
Reverse grip pushdown 3 x 10-12
Rope pushdown 3 x 12-15
Rope overhead extension 3 x 15-20
Dumbbell wrist flexion 2 x 15-20
Cable wrist extension 2 x 15-20

7. Rest


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## FearThaGear (Sep 13, 2021)

In order for someone to critique a plan, you must first have a plan and disclose it.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 13, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> In order for someone to critique a plan, you must first have a plan and disclose it.


What you mean? What's wrong with the plan I posted?


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## FearThaGear (Sep 13, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> What you mean? What's wrong with the plan I posted?


Well, if your plan is to increase weight then I like your plan go for it 👍


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 13, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> Well, if your plan is to increase weight then I like your plan go for it 👍


Alright. I was more looking for critique if I'm missing something on my plan in your opinion or if the workouts look good. I like to discuss a lot about different kinds of workouts and methods of breaking the muscle


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## eazy (Sep 13, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> In order for someone to critique a plan, you must first have a plan and disclose it.


It was behind a spoiler tag for me.

1. Chest, calves
Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Weighted Dips 12 (no weight), 2 x 8 (rp to get 8)
Machine press 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Cable crossover 3 x 10
Machine fly 3 x 10 isohold 15 sec (if can)
Smith calf raise 3 x 10
Leg press calves 3 x 15

2. Back, abs
Wide grip lat pull down, weight pyramid 5x10-15, 3 first "warm ups"
Bent over barbell row, working warm up 15, feeder, feeder, failure 5-8
Rope pullover 3 x 15-20
Cable row 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Shrugs 3 x 8-12
Hyperextension 3 x 15-20
Cable crunch 3 x failure
Reverse crunch 3 x failure
A1. Decline leg raises 3 x failure
A2. Plank

3. Rest

4. Shoulders, hamstrings
Rear delt fly 5 x 15-30
Seated smith ohp 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Cable lateral raise 3 x 10-12
Seated lateral raise 2 x 4+4+4+4+amrap 10 sec breaks, drop weight in half do one more amrap
Rdl 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Lying leg curl 14, 12, 10, 10 - 3ds and partials on two last sets
Leg curl 4x10

5. Quads
Leg extension 4x10
Back squat 15, 12, 1 or 2 feeder, failure
Hack squat or smith front squat 15, 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Walking lunge 4x10
Hip adduction 3x15
Hip abduction 3x15

6. Arms
Seated dumbbell curls 3 x 10-12
Standing hammer curls 3 x 10-12
Preacher curl 3 x 12-15
Ez bar curl 3 x 8-10
Tricep pushdown 3 x 10-12
Reverse grip pushdown 3 x 10-12
Rope pushdown 3 x 12-15
Rope overhead extension 3 x 15-20
Dumbbell wrist flexion 2 x 15-20
Cable wrist extension 2 x 15-20

7. Rest


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## weightlossburn (Sep 13, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Hey guys! Looking for critique on my workout plan. The idea is atm to just increase weights on everything, not reps or sets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Kingjpwn said:


> Hey guys! Looking for critique on my workout plan. The idea is atm to just increase weights on everything, not reps or sets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a picture of you in the profile?  Are those your biceps?  I thought I was hetero until I saw them...


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 13, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Is that a picture of you in the profile?  Are those your biceps?  I thought I was hetero until I saw them...


Yes it is me. Going to start steroids soon... think I'm going to hit at least 50cm biceps after first cycle? =D Currently 46cm.


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## CJ (Sep 13, 2021)

Too much in there, and a lot of redundancy.

 For example.... 

Smith calf raises and leg press calf raises. Basically the same thing, doing a calf exercise with a straight knee.

Hyperextensions after already doing barbell bentover rows. The BO BB Rows already hit your erectors and hammies. 

Cable crossovers and machine flies. Just pick one. 

Get rid of the fluff.


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## FearThaGear (Sep 13, 2021)

eazy said:


> It was behind a spoiler tag for me.
> 
> 1. Chest, calves
> Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
> ...


What kind of ridiculous spoiler button is this?

Here I am thinking this guy has no plan but it's sitting right behind a spoiler button.

My apologies


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## CJ (Sep 13, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> What kind of ridiculous spoiler button is this?
> 
> Here I am thinking this guy has no plan but it's sitting right behind a spoiler button.
> 
> My apologies


I work here and I have no idea where this "Spoiler" button is located!!!  🤣🤣🤣


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## FearThaGear (Sep 13, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Hey guys! Looking for critique on my workout plan. The idea is atm to just increase weights on everything, not reps or sets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The thing that sticks out the most for me is your rep ranges. 

If you want to get stronger, you're going to have to add more weight and lower your rep range.

You have more of a bodybuilder style workout which may be good for building muscle but definitely not the best for building strength.


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## eazy (Sep 13, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Is that a picture of you in the profile


He said it is. I need his advice.


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## CJ (Sep 13, 2021)

eazy said:


> He said it is. I need his advice.


He is a big boy!!!  😳😳😳


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 14, 2021)

There is a lot of work and a lot of exercises. Pick three movements for chest. Jack up the weight to 65-75% of your heaviest weight. Drop the reps. You could keep the sets, that is ok. 
Chest.. keep the first 3 chest movements and then pick one of the other 2. I like cable crossovers because I can drop the weight and use strict form to push the blood into the muscles really concentrate on the muscle. This is just my opinion. 
then finish off you day with one calve exercises.
BTW calves should be trained heavy with high reps. 3x40 is a good start. Or until your shit feels like it’s going to catch fire. Lol and then do another 10 reps. 
if you want your calves to grow they have to be hit heavy and hard. You could even do a set in between your other sets and when you are done with you chest you will be done with your workout.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Too much in there, and a lot of redundancy.
> 
> For example....
> 
> ...


I like to do smith and leg press calf raises because in smith raises I feel my "inner calves" work and in leg press calf raises I feel the outer calf work. BO BB rows don't hit hammies mate? I also wear a belt doing them. Also because I don't deadlift I think my erectors need the work from hyperextensions. They are the only exercise where I am not trying to stabilize my lower back.

With cable crossovers I can really feel my lower chest and with machine flies the inner chest. That's the reasoning of having them both.

Thank you a lot for critique though. Appreciate it.


FearThaGear said:


> What kind of ridiculous spoiler button is this?
> 
> Here I am thinking this guy has no plan but it's sitting right behind a spoiler button.
> 
> My apologies


Sorry mate, I thought it would be cool for people if I used the spoiler button so people can click it to check the program and click again to hide it! 



FearThaGear said:


> The thing that sticks out the most for me is your rep ranges.
> 
> If you want to get stronger, you're going to have to add more weight and lower your rep range.
> 
> You have more of a bodybuilder style workout which may be good for building muscle but definitely not the best for building strength.



Yeah, this is the style I've always done. You are right, I am a bodybuilder not a powerlifter. My goal is to compete in classic physique. That's why I am here trying to learn about steroids and a thing or two more about diet / training.


eazy said:


> He said it is. I need his advice.





CJ275 said:


> He is a big boy!!!  😳😳😳



Thanks guys lol... Just wait when I start my test and dbol cycle  Let's see how big I get 



Badleroybrown said:


> There is a lot of work and a lot of exercises. Pick three movements for chest. Jack up the weight to 65-75% of your heaviest weight. Drop the reps. You could keep the sets, that is ok.
> Chest.. keep the first 3 chest movements and then pick one of the other 2. I like cable crossovers because I can drop the weight and use strict form to push the blood into the muscles really concentrate on the muscle. This is just my opinion.
> then finish off you day with one calve exercises.
> BTW calves should be trained heavy with high reps. 3x40 is a good start. Or until your shit feels like it’s going to catch fire. Lol and then do another 10 reps.
> if you want your calves to grow they have to be hit heavy and hard. You could even do a set in between your other sets and when you are done with you chest you will be done with your workout.


3x40 on calves? Are you sure mate? I can post a picture on where I got my calves at with the ~10 rep range. Sure I can try for example on the other movement to have the 3x40 

Is there any reason on dropping the reps? And if I train my chest once a week, is 3 movements really enough?




Thanks a lot for your replies guys, appreciate it!


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 14, 2021)

Calves grow with high reps.. getting a pump and forcing them to grow are two different things. I am sure you know this.
Strength comes from lower reps.. by lowering the reps and upping the weights you get stronger. If you use 75% of your max you should not be able to bust out 15 reps on the smith machine. 
but what do I know. These are just suggestions and I am going by what works for me. I am not a professional or a trainer. I hope you get what you are need out of your routine. It looks solid.🤙


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Calves grow with high reps.. getting a pump and forcing them to grow are two different things. I am sure you know this.
> Strength comes from lower reps.. by lowering the reps and upping the weights you get stronger. If you use 75% of your max you should not be able to bust out 15 reps on the smith machine.
> but what do I know. These are just suggestions and I am going by what works for me. I am not a professional or a trainer. I hope you get what you are need out of your routine. It looks solid.🤙


Yeah, there's absolutely no way I can do 15 reps with 75% of max. The 15 reps is "warm up" to get warmed up. The 12 is to actually start to feel the muscle real good. 10 is already a rather hard set, but If I really wanted I could squeeze 12 or 13. The 8 and 6 are to failure, and if I get for example 6 on the 8 I will do rest pause to get the 8.

I will change the leg press calf raise to 3x40. I will try it mate! 

But yeah I'm not that interested in strength, I can bench only 230 / 105kg for example. Even though my father is the former bench press world champion (natural).


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

Guys, just want to note that as I am going to start my cycle in 2 months, if there is anything you can teach me about the differences training while on gear and as a natty I would be grateful.


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## CJ (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Guys, just want to note that as I am going to start my cycle in 2 months, if there is anything you can teach me about the differences training while on gear and as a natty I would be grateful.


You'll have two different camps on this one. 

One group will say to keep training the same, to dance with the girl you came with. Progress will just be faster. 

Other group will say that since recovery is enhanced, it makes sense to do a bit more, whether it's volume, frequency, or using intensity techniques.


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## CJ (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Guys, just want to note that as I am going to start my cycle in 2 months, if there is anything you can teach me about the differences training while on gear and as a natty I would be grateful.


One thing that most will agree on is to be careful of pushing for maxes. You don't want to tear anything. Your muscles will get stronger faster than your connective tissues can keep up, so pushing for 1-5 RMs probably aren't a great idea.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> You'll have two different camps on this one.
> 
> One group will say to keep training the same, to dance with the girl you came with. Progress will just be faster.
> 
> Other group will say that since recovery is enhanced, it makes sense to do a bit more, whether it's volume, frequency, or using intensity techniques.


To be honest, it does seem logical to do more when the recovery is enhanced. I'm very unsure on which of the choices would be the best, but doing more frequency doesn't sound logical. I don't want to train in a way like when your having sex, keep having sex but never cum, so train with not going to the failure of the muscle. Do you feel what am saying?


CJ275 said:


> One thing that most will agree on is to be careful of pushing for maxes. You don't want to tear anything. Your muscles will get stronger faster than your connective tissues can keep up, so pushing for 1-5 RMs probably aren't a great idea.


Yeah I never really do under 5 reps, that's what I've heard too. The joints doesn't get as strong as fast as the muscles do, so better go higher reps. I also hate doing 1-5RMS so it fits me well.

Do you have any suggestions on what kind of changes to make on the training program I posted? I mean would you make any changes to get most of the cycle? I will begin 23.11. By then my diet and reverse diet should be done and I should be at maintenance.

Thanks for answers.


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## CJ (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> To be honest, it does seem logical to do more when the recovery is enhanced. I'm very unsure on which of the choices would be the best, but doing more frequency doesn't sound logical. I don't want to train in a way like when your having sex, keep having sex but never cum, so train with not going to the failure of the muscle. Do you feel what am saying?
> 
> Yeah I never really do under 5 reps, that's what I've heard too. The joints doesn't get as strong as fast as the muscles do, so better go higher reps. I also hate doing 1-5RMS so it fits me well.
> 
> ...


I understand what you're saying, you enjoy high volume. Myself, I like adding intensifies at the end of my last set, like taking it to failure then doing a rest pause or drop set. Also like doing a down set at the end. 

I really don't think it matters too much, as long as you work hard, you progress over time, and you enjoy how you train.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> I understand what you're saying, you enjoy high volume. Myself, I like adding intensifies at the end of my last set, like taking it to failure then doing a rest pause or drop set. Also like doing a down set at the end.
> 
> I really don't think it matters too much, as long as you work hard, you progress over time, and you enjoy how you train.


Don't understand me wrong, I do enjoy intensity techniques even more than volume. I am just not so good at progression with intensity techniques. Like for example I could add an intensity technique to every movements last set I have there when the cycle starts?

I'm not sure if I have stumbled upon any bodybuilding style of training I don't like. For example I enjoyed Dorian Yates training style a lot, but in my opinion it doesn't fit for a natural trainee, because the weight progression is super slow and doing the reps slow with big weights doesn't feel that good. You know what I'm saying?


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## CJ (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Don't understand me wrong, I do enjoy intensity techniques even more than volume. I am just not so good at progression with intensity techniques. Like for example I could add an intensity technique to every movements last set I have there when the cycle starts?
> 
> I'm not sure if I have stumbled upon any bodybuilding style of training I don't like. For example I enjoyed Dorian Yates training style a lot, but in my opinion it doesn't fit for a natural trainee, because the weight progression is super slow and doing the reps slow with big weights doesn't feel that good. You know what I'm saying?


I wouldn't add an intensity technique to EVERY exercise, that's likely too much, especially all at once. Try just the last big compound lift each day and/or last accessory lift to get a burning pump.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> I wouldn't add an intensity technique to EVERY exercise, that's likely too much, especially all at once. Try just the last big compound lift each day and/or last accessory lift to get a burning pump.


Hmm... I'll make a version of the training program later this or next month with the added intensity techniques and ask your opinion. I will try to add the progression model too there. I enjoy making training programs, during these last 10 years I've probably made over 50 different programs


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## CJ (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Hmm... I'll make a version of the training program later this or next month with the added intensity techniques and ask your opinion. I will try to add the progression model too there. I enjoy making training programs, during these last 10 years I've probably made over 50 different programs


You already look amazing, so don't go too crazy making changes. Slight changes at most.


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Yeah, there's absolutely no way I can do 15 reps with 75% of max. The 15 reps is "warm up" to get warmed up. The 12 is to actually start to feel the muscle real good. 10 is already a rather hard set, but If I really wanted I could squeeze 12 or 13. The 8 and 6 are to failure, and if I get for example 6 on the 8 I will do rest pause to get the 8.
> 
> I will change the leg press calf raise to 3x40. I will try it mate!
> 
> But yeah I'm not that interested in strength, I can bench only 230 / 105kg for example. Even though my father is the former bench press world champion (natural).


Bro you said in your original post that you were interested in strength.. 
so I was just commenting on your original post.. increasing weights=increasing strength…
Hope it all works out..*✌️🤙*


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> You already look amazing, so don't go too crazy making changes. Slight changes at most.


Thanks mate, I'll probably not make a lot of changes but if I do, I will post the updated version of the training program here and tag you. The hard thing is that I've made the gains currently from using such a large variety of different training methods. Although in the end my biggest realisation has been that the most important thing with any training style is just to train hard.



Badleroybrown said:


> Bro you said in your original post that you were interested in strength..
> so I was just commenting on your original post.. increasing weights=increasing strength…
> Hope it all works out..*✌️🤙*


Ahh, there must have been a misunderstanding. I meant with increasing weight that it's my BODYBUILDING progression model. You see, there must be some sort of progression model, either reps, sets, weight, technique... But thanks for commenting mate, appreciate it.


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## dirtys1x (Sep 14, 2021)

No flat bench work?


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> No flat bench work?


That's definitely a thing I've thought about and wanted to raise some discussion about it and have critique on how to change the chest workout. I have never been a fan of flat bench press, eventhough my father is the former bench press world champion. But on the other hand, barbell flat bench gets me the biggest fucking pump in my pecs that I can get in the gym. 

But again... I don't enjoy doing it that much. The machine press I'm doing is flat though.


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## dirtys1x (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> That's definitely a thing I've thought about and wanted to raise some discussion about it and have critique on how to change the chest workout. I have never been a fan of flat bench press, eventhough my father is the former bench press world champion. But on the other hand, barbell flat bench gets me the biggest fucking pump in my pecs that I can get in the gym.
> 
> But again... I don't enjoy doing it that much. The machine press I'm doing is flat though.


I would always incorporate some sort of flat bench work into my routine. One of the reasons like you mentioned is the pump. I don’t get the same pump from incline work. Don’t get me wrong, I still do it and I actually like incline work more than flat. But me personally, I have very strong shoulders and it’s easy for me to use the mechanical advantage of my shoulders in my incline benches. Staying flat just feels like my chest is working more.


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## CJ (Sep 14, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> I would always incorporate some sort of flat bench work into my routine. One of the reasons like you mentioned is the pump. I don’t get the same pump from incline work. Don’t get me wrong, I still do it and I actually like incline work more than flat. But me personally, I have very strong shoulders and it’s easy for me to use the mechanical advantage of my shoulders in my incline benches. Staying flat just feels like my chest is working more.


Barbell or DB?


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## dirtys1x (Sep 14, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Barbell or DB?


I do both. Depends on how my left shoulder is feeling. I’m a heavy bencher so on weeks after big maxes or sub 3 rep ranges I swap to dumbbell the following week and increase volume and drop weight. Definitely utilize both.


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## BrotherIron (Sep 14, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Too much in there, and a lot of redundancy.
> 
> For example....
> 
> ...


And only training each 1x a week.  This looks like a bro split outta some cheap magazine.

Get rid of all that fluff, train everything 2x week and put some real lifts in like DL, Squat, OHP w/ Bar, Bench, etc.  You can rotate in and out assistance work.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> I would always incorporate some sort of flat bench work into my routine. One of the reasons like you mentioned is the pump. I don’t get the same pump from incline work. Don’t get me wrong, I still do it and I actually like incline work more than flat. But me personally, I have very strong shoulders and it’s easy for me to use the mechanical advantage of my shoulders in my incline benches. Staying flat just feels like my chest is working more.


I definitely feel you mate, but I do feel only my chest working when doing incline. Any suggestion on how to change the chest day?



BrotherIron said:


> And only training each 1x a week.  This looks like a bro split outta some cheap magazine.
> 
> Get rid of all that fluff, train everything 2x week and put some real lifts in like DL, Squat, OHP w/ Bar, Bench, etc.  You can rotate in and out assistance work.


What's wrong with training 1x a week? If I train PPLRPPLR for example, I'm never ever recovered for the next workout. I don't like to workout half ass. Sure, that's true I don't know about training on steroids... I have done a lot of John Meadows' programs and I love them, except for some movements for example one-arm bb row, I can't do that shit haha 

I despise deadlifts. I don't hate anything more than deadlifts and I want to enjoy my training. Squats - I'm doing two versions of them, OHP I do in smith machine, because standing OHP, I can't even feel my shoulders working. Bench I've been thinking a lot about and how would I incorporate it into my training program. Also I don't have a training partner so I can't goto failure on bench.

Thanks for the answer!

EDIT: Also just want to make sure that you know my goal is only aesthetics / bodybuilding. I'm not interested in powerlifting at all.


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## BrotherIron (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> I definitely feel you mate, but I do feel only my chest working when doing incline. Any suggestion on how to change the chest day?
> 
> 
> What's wrong with training 1x a week? If I train PPLRPPLR for example, I'm never ever recovered for the next workout. I don't like to workout half ass. Sure, that's true I don't know about training on steroids... I have done a lot of John Meadows' programs and I love them, except for some movements for example one-arm bb row, I can't do that shit haha
> ...


Problem with training 1x week is the body may be recovered and they it sits for day/ days before you train that muscle/ muscle group again.  You want to train a muscle as often as possible with the caveat being it should be recovered.

For example, if you train your back 1x a week and it takes 3-4 days for your back to recover then it sits for another 2-3 days before you hit it again. Is that the best way to make gains especially since you're a bber and not a strength athlete?  I would say... no.  

Volume is important but so is frequency.  You need to enough to illicit a response with ust enough time to recovery before hammering it again.  And lets face it, you're not exactly blasting heavy deads or squats so your recovery time is far shorter than 1 week.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> Problem with training 1x week is the body may be recovered and they it sits for day/ days before you train that muscle/ muscle group again.  You want to train a muscle as often as possible with the caveat being it should be recovered.
> 
> For example, if you train your back 1x a week and it takes 3-4 days for your back to recover then it sits for another 2-3 days before you hit it again. Is that the best way to make gains especially since you're a bber and not a strength athlete?  I would say... no.
> 
> Volume is important but so is frequency.  You need to enough to illicit a response with ust enough time to recovery before hammering it again.  And lets face it, you're not exactly blasting heavy deads or squats so your recovery time is far shorter than 1 week.


Well, can you suggest me a training program based on this? I will take a look on it and make some changes purely based on the equipment my gym has and my personal preference over some movements. I only know that training natural I can train my muscles hard once a week. Sure my recovery is going to be lots of better, so maybe I should not train only once a week.


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## dirtys1x (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> I definitely feel you mate, but I do feel only my chest working when doing incline. Any suggestion on how to change the chest day?



here’s what mine looks like:

flat bench
Incline bench
Hex press to flys (superset)
Underhand cable flys
Push-up variation burnout straight to failure and get the fuck home. (You could keep your weighted dips here honestly)

your rep ranges look much different than mine because my training regimen is more geared towards strength. So do with that as you would. I like the two flat bench works (obviously flat bench and then heavy hex press superset with flat flys)


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> here’s what mine looks like:
> 
> flat bench
> Incline bench
> ...


How would you change the program I have to incorporate flat bench in there? I also don't understand, do you not go failure on the hex press because you can do flys after? If I goto failure with hex press, there's no way I am doing a single rep of flys with my pecs burning so hard. Thanks for answer!


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## dirtys1x (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> How would you change the program I have to incorporate flat bench in there? I also don't understand, do you not go failure on the hex press because you can do flys after? If I goto failure with hex press, there's no way I am doing a single rep of flys with my pecs burning so hard. Thanks for answer!


No not necessarily to failure. I usually work to failure on my last sets of the entire workout. Hence the push-ups to failure.

if you wanted to keep your same regimen then just throw the flat before your incline, then add another flat lift after the incline! No problem easy.


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> No not necessarily to failure. I usually work to failure on my last sets of the entire workout. Hence the push-ups to failure.
> 
> if you wanted to keep your same regimen then just throw the flat before your incline, then add another flat lift after the incline! No problem easy.


1. Chest, calves
Flat Bench Press 15, 12, 10, 8 ,6
Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Weighted Dips 12 (no weight), 2 x 8 (rp to get 8)
Machine press 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Cable crossover 3 x 10
Machine fly 3 x 10 isohold 15 sec (if can)
Smith calf raise 3 x 10
Leg press calves 3 x 15

So something like this? Just more volume? Or flat db press even after the dips for amrap? The dbs are limited to 40kgs at my gym.


----------



## dirtys1x (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> 1. Chest, calves
> Flat Bench Press 15, 12, 10, 8 ,6
> Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
> Weighted Dips 12 (no weight), 2 x 8 (rp to get 8)
> ...


I would stick with flat db before that amrap imo. You can prolly drop one of those flys if they’re not unique.


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> I would stick with flat db before that amrap imo. You can prolly drop one of those flys if they’re not unique.


I mean something like this:
1. Chest, calves
Flat Bench Press 15, 12, 10, 8 ,6
Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Weighted Dips 12 (no weight), 2 x 8 (rp to get 8)
Flat db press 2xAMRAP
Machine press 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Cable crossover 2 x 10
Machine fly 2 x 10 isohold 15 sec (if can)
Smith calf raise 3 x 10
Leg press calves 3 x 15

And maybe just reduce sets on flys to 2 and increase them 1-by-1 while on cycle?


----------



## dirtys1x (Sep 14, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> I mean something like this:
> 1. Chest, calves
> Flat Bench Press 15, 12, 10, 8 ,6
> Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
> ...


Yeah I like this. If you did a cable fly I would try an underhand fly then. That way you’re getting fly from different angles. This is a lot of volume. Would definitely work well on cycle .


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 14, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> Yeah I like this. If you did a cable fly I would try an underhand fly then. That way you’re getting fly from different angles. This is a lot of volume. Would definitely work well on cycle .


I don't like the underhand cable fly, I've tried it several times but it just, to be honest, feels like shit.

You seem to have a lot of good opinions, can you share some for the other days? I did shoulders and hammies today, and man. It was so good workout. But too little volume when on cycle? Thanks in advance!


----------



## dirtys1x (Sep 15, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> I don't like the underhand cable fly, I've tried it several times but it just, to be honest, feels like shit.
> 
> You seem to have a lot of good opinions, can you share some for the other days? I did shoulders and hammies today, and man. It was so good workout. But too little volume when on cycle? Thanks in advance!


No problem. And good! Your training routine comes down to how it makes YOU feel. If you had a kick ass workout, stick to it. I did check out your other days. Both your shoulders/hamstring and arm days are fine. My shoulder days look pretty much exactly like that except I do DB press. Hamstrings RDL is my absolute bread and butter and ofc you can’t forget some good leg curls.

as far as your arm day goes - arms are arms. You can’t really train those wrong lol. I fly through mt arm days and just superset the shit out of everything. I Try to make it a quick day, and I pair mine with shoulders because I don’t think such small muscles should require their own day. To each their own.

your back day looks good, but unlike you, I absolutely love deadlifts and I spent the first hour of my workout running them. Other than that, nice.

your quads day look good too. I would probably put way more emphasis on your squats and would prolly throw way more working sets in there. Also it seems like you have quite a bit more volume for your quads than you do your hamstrings. Something to keep in mind. I also thing hip ab/adductor workouts are useless but I know a lot of people who would argue against me on that.

lkke I said, it’s all you. Stick to your regimen if you’re getting kick ass workouts. Only you know if you’re leaving the gym satisfied!


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 15, 2021)

dirtys1x said:


> No problem. And good! Your training routine comes down to how it makes YOU feel. If you had a kick ass workout, stick to it. I did check out your other days. Both your shoulders/hamstring and arm days are fine. My shoulder days look pretty much exactly like that except I do DB press. Hamstrings RDL is my absolute bread and butter and ofc you can’t forget some good leg curls.
> 
> as far as your arm day goes - arms are arms. You can’t really train those wrong lol. I fly through mt arm days and just superset the shit out of everything. I Try to make it a quick day, and I pair mine with shoulders because I don’t think such small muscles should require their own day. To each their own.
> 
> ...


You know, I did RDLs for the first time in years and they felt great. I am going to do some weight progression there before the cycle starts. Yeah I did this arm day for a short time:

4x10-12 tricep pushdown (two warm ups)
4x10-12 rope extension
3x10-12 underhand single handle pushdowns
2x12-1 tricep kickback

4x10-12 standing double biceps cable curl
4x10-12 machine curl
3x12 preacher curl
2x12 reverse curl

Supersetted everything and the arm pump was so insane, it was rediculous. Literally +50cm arms because the pump was so huge.


As for quads, I HATE doing a lot of sets of regular squats. Hack squats I could do all day everyday, I absolutely love them. I could do maybe two sets of barbell back squats, and add more to hack squats?
Hip abductor / adductor make my glutes and inner thighs burn SO HARD, I don't know if it's possible they don't work because the burn is insane.

As for back, I'm not unsure about the first movement and rep schedule because high rep lat pulldowns burn my shoulders faster than the lats. And I despise deadlifts. I just hate doing them so I won't do them hehe.

Thanks for detailed answer!


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 18, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> There is a lot of work and a lot of exercises. Pick three movements for chest. Jack up the weight to 65-75% of your heaviest weight. Drop the reps. You could keep the sets, that is ok.
> Chest.. keep the first 3 chest movements and then pick one of the other 2. I like cable crossovers because I can drop the weight and use strict form to push the blood into the muscles really concentrate on the muscle. This is just my opinion.
> then finish off you day with one calve exercises.
> BTW calves should be trained heavy with high reps. 3x40 is a good start. Or until your shit feels like it’s going to catch fire. Lol and then do another 10 reps.
> if you want your calves to grow they have to be hit heavy and hard. You could even do a set in between your other sets and when you are done with you chest you will be done with your workout.


Dude. I just did the chest calves day and I tried the 3x40 on leg press calves. WTF IS THAT PUMP? I seriously need to know more details from you on every muscle group... I would really appreciate if you would share your secrets.

I was about to start crying because the pump was so painful, I still can't stand without my legs shaking.



https://imgur.com/a/wrAd3CC


----------



## Send0 (Sep 19, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Dude. I just did the chest calves day and I tried the 3x40 on leg press calves. WTF IS THAT PUMP? I seriously need to know more details from you on every muscle group... I would really appreciate if you would share your secrets.
> 
> I was about to start crying because the pump was so painful, I still can't stand without my legs shaking.
> 
> ...


They are looking nice and juicy. Looks like you definitely got a great pump!


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 21, 2021)

Send0 said:


> They are looking nice and juicy. Looks like you definitely got a great pump!


Got any tips on any muscle groups? Would appreciate all.


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 22, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Got any tips on any muscle groups? Would appreciate all.


Dude, look at you.  You should be giving us tips.


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 22, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Dude, look at you.  You should be giving us tips.


Mate, I don't know what tips I could give you, I just train hard and I posted my program. Just thinking if someone has some nice technique to get sick pumps etc... haha


----------



## CJ (Sep 22, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Mate, I don't know what tips I could give you, I just train hard and I posted my program. Just thinking if someone has some nice technique to get sick pumps etc... haha


Ever try Rest Pause sets? 

It's when you take your last set to failure, rest 20 seconds, go again to failure, rest 20 seconds, go a final time to failure. 

Similar to drop sets, but it's the same weight each set.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 22, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> Got any tips on any muscle groups? Would appreciate all.


Hah, if you saw me you'd not be asking me for advice on anything 🤣


----------



## Send0 (Sep 22, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Ever try Rest Pause sets?
> 
> It's when you take your last set to failure, rest 20 seconds, go again to failure, rest 20 seconds, go a final time to failure.
> 
> Similar to drop sets, but it's the same weight each set.


Sounds like a giant set to me.


----------



## The Phoenix (Sep 22, 2021)

Auxiliary exercises and pliometrics strengthen the joints, as a result strength the muscle forcing it to exert more for more mass gain.  That is what my trainer introduced into my regiment.


----------



## The Phoenix (Sep 22, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Hah, if you saw me you'd not be asking me for advice on anything 🤣


Some of the leanest endomorphs have provided me the best advice for improving my mesomorph form.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 22, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> Some of the leanest endomorphs have provided me the best advice for improving my mesomorph form.


How about some of the smallest ectomorphs? 😂

I wish I was a meso... but we work with what we got, and we don't cry about it 😎


----------



## The Phoenix (Sep 22, 2021)

Send0 said:


> How about some of the smallest ectomorphs? 😂
> 
> I wish I was a meso... but we work with what we got, and we don't cry about it 😎


The leanest guys are the sexiest.  Most women prefer lean muscle over beefy bulk.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 22, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> The leanest guys are the sexiest.  Most women prefer lean muscle or beefy bulk.


If only you were around to tell that to the 20 year old version of myself. 🤣


----------



## CJ (Sep 22, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Sounds like a giant set to me.


Aren't Giant Sets 4 exercises for the same muscle group supersetted???  🤔🤔


----------



## Send0 (Sep 22, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Aren't Giant Sets 4 exercises for the same muscle group supersetted???  🤔🤔


You don't have to.. you could literally do it with the same exercise. That's how I saw Chris Bumstead do it anyway.


----------



## The Phoenix (Sep 22, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Aren't Giant Sets 4 exercises for the same muscle group supersetted???  🤔🤔


For sets with 3 or more exercises, those are called hypersets, supersets when it is 2


----------



## Send0 (Sep 22, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> For sets with 3 or more exercises, those are called hypersets, supersets when it is 2


I keep learning new things here everyday! Now I can sound cool when I describe my programming to others 😁


----------



## The Phoenix (Sep 22, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I keep learning new things here everyday! Now I can sound cool when I describe my programming to others 😁


i take no credit for it here.  That's the nomenclature my trainer uses.


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## TeddyBear (Sep 22, 2021)

Idk how I missed this thread. 
Phoenix is right, women generally prefer lean men over beefy (sucks for them, beefy is great).
How did I not know @Kingjpwn is a muscle monster? Dude, where I can get those Anchor Arms*

*Trademarked by Spongebob.


----------



## CJ (Sep 22, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> For sets with 3 or more exercises, those are called hypersets, supersets when it is 2


If we're getting specific...

A superset is back to back exercises with no/minimal rest for different muscle groups.

A compound set is back to back exercises no/minimal rest for same muscle group.

But that's just nit picking. It's just words at the end of the day


----------



## Send0 (Sep 22, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> If we're getting specific...
> 
> A superset is back to back exercises with no/minimal rest for different muscle groups.
> 
> ...


I like words... whisper them into my ear... like that one night... that one time 😘


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 23, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Ever try Rest Pause sets?
> 
> It's when you take your last set to failure, rest 20 seconds, go again to failure, rest 20 seconds, go a final time to failure.
> 
> Similar to drop sets, but it's the same weight each set.


Man I do rest pauses every workout, I love them!


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## Kingjpwn (Sep 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Idk how I missed this thread.
> Phoenix is right, women generally prefer lean men over beefy (sucks for them, beefy is great).
> How did I not know @Kingjpwn is a muscle monster? Dude, where I can get those Anchor Arms*
> 
> *Trademarked by Spongebob.


I don't know man... lol


----------



## Kingjpwn (Sep 23, 2021)

Send0 said:


> You don't have to.. you could literally do it with the same exercise. That's how I saw Chris Bumstead do it anyway.


How do you do giant set with only one exercise? Weird.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 23, 2021)

Kingjpwn said:


> How do you do giant set with only one exercise? Weird.


It's just working the same muscle group... IMO it doesn't matter if you do that with a single exercise or multiple.

Whatever makes you feel fancy and cool I guess.

Now whether Chris is really doing a giant set can be debated, but that's where I learned about them from. In his videos he usually just hits the same exercise in the way you describe a pause set, and called it a giant set.


----------



## Methyl mike (Jan 27, 2022)

eazy said:


> It was behind a spoiler tag for me.
> 
> 1. Chest, calves
> Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
> ...


C+


----------



## eazy (Jan 27, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> C+


How could he make it better?


----------



## Methyl mike (Jan 27, 2022)

eazy said:


> How could he make it better?


Too much volume


----------



## Badleroybrown (Jan 27, 2022)

Kingjpwn said:


> How do you do giant set with only one exercise? Weird.


I would guess a drop set could be consider a giant set???
I guess a giant set would be doing three exercises for triceps let’s say without rest?? 
I am not sure what a giant set is.
I am CCINFUZZLED??🤔


----------



## Badleroybrown (Jan 27, 2022)

I love high set high reps… never had a problem growing with them and making strength gains.
Triceps for instance..
I set the pin on pull downs. Do 20 pull the pin and out it somewhere else In The stack and repeat. I do this until I am spent.. maybe 10+ sets so it could start off at 20 lbs go up to 90 and back to 5…
This only works very well on cables and machines…
THAT WILL BE A PUMP!!!


----------



## Kingjpwn (Jan 28, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Too much volume


Well you can check on my avatar where I've got myself with that type of training naturally. However I am currently on cycle and I'm doing PPL with way less volume. Not sure if I'm making a big mistake.


----------



## Kingjpwn (Jan 28, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> I love high set high reps… never had a problem growing with them and making strength gains.
> Triceps for instance..
> I set the pin on pull downs. Do 20 pull the pin and out it somewhere else In The stack and repeat. I do this until I am spent.. maybe 10+ sets so it could start off at 20 lbs go up to 90 and back to 5…
> This only works very well on cables and machines…
> THAT WILL BE A PUMP!!!


Yeah intense pump sets are fun, I like to do FST-7 type of sets from time to time, have you ever tried those?


----------



## Badleroybrown (Jan 28, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Too much volume


So volume does not = growth. 
Only heavy weight low reps= growth
The best of both worlds is
Volume & weight = growth… 
Most should be able to train with high volume @ 65-75ish% of max weight
If one can not train at this intensity and have volume the re evaluate the program and maybe drop to 55% of max weight… 
This is my opinion and what works for me.
Just giving a different point of view.


----------



## Methyl mike (Jan 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> So volume does not = growth.
> Only heavy weight low reps= growth
> The best of both worlds is
> Volume & weight = growth…
> ...


High volume training around 65%-75% max weight etc only works if you have the right genetics and are using the right drugs to benefit from the extra volume. Most people overtrain very fast doing it, the majority of trainers should focus on intensity and correct form and the reduced volume is just a natural byproduct IE you cannot do more than a few really intense sets in a given workout. If you can you aren't training hard enough. 

Also I don't think anybody benefits from doing overlapping movements in the same workout. IE you don't need to do machine flyes dumbbell flyes and cable crossovers on top of incline barbell presses incline machine press etc in the same workout. I don't recall exactly how OP structured his workouts right now but I remember them being very inefficient with lots of overlap.


----------



## Methyl mike (Jan 29, 2022)

Kingjpwn said:


> Well you can check on my avatar where I've got myself with that type of training naturally. However I am currently on cycle and I'm doing PPL with way less volume. Not sure if I'm making a big mistake.


The fact you have some size doesn't mean you are training optimally. For all you know you would be much bigger/stronger if you made changes. 

I gave PPL my best and the results told me my normal split works best. I do the same split as Dorian did chest biceps then legs day off back shoulders with triceps day off repeat. 

I don't know what it is about PPL that doesn't work for me, on paper it seems perfect but in reality none of the workouts are very productive and the extra sessions every week do not make up for the lack of intensity. I think it's just a way for bodybuilders to be lazy personally. 

Ronnie Coleman did PPL the right way and I could not last training like he did. If you can then fuck yeah stick with it! My CNS can't handle it anymore.


----------



## Methyl mike (Jan 29, 2022)

Kingjpwn said:


> Hey guys! Looking for critique on my workout plan. The idea is atm to just increase weights on everything, not reps or sets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well at least your arms should be big. Can't say the same for your back. Working hamstrings the day before quads is probably a mistake. Starting shoulders by exhausting rear delts thats not something I would recommend personally. 

You are trying to reinvent the wheel and it isn't going to happen. Ive done every split under the sun, Dorian perfected bodybuilding training just follow his workouts and focus your energy not in these fancy routines or whatever but focus instead on intensity and making progress every single week. Every week it's more weight on the bar or more reps with same weight without exception.

 You can make small changes like maybe you don't like hammer reverse pulldowns so use the pulldown station instead. I dont have a pullover machine so I do dumbbell pullovers instead etc. 

Put your energy into execution, strong contractions with slow controlled negatives. Always control the weight 

Fst7 was created by hany rambod I was there watching him when he trained Chris cook in san Jose years ago fst7 only really works if you are a client of his hany is very strict with his guys no smoking no caffeine no vaso constrictors or he will drop you. He modifies your diet just so and when you train it's all about the pump. Does this work yes if you are already very advanced. You aren't that advanced yet, you won't see the results you expect or desire from it.


----------



## Methyl mike (Jan 29, 2022)

Kingjpwn said:


> Guys, just want to note that as I am going to start my cycle in 2 months, if there is anything you can teach me about the differences training while on gear and as a natty I would be grateful.


Training on cycle should change to take advantage of what steroids actually do which is enhance recovery. Forced reps extra negatives assisted negatives that sort of thing a natty cannot really do because they overtrain fast. Overtraining isn't just your body it's your CNS as well. So, basically, on steroids push the envelope intensity wise really dig DEEP. Like Ronnie said "YOU HAVE TO DIG DEEP!" so do that. 

And try not to get injured.


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> So volume does not = growth.
> Only heavy weight low reps= growth
> The best of both worlds is
> Volume & weight = growth…
> ...


I’m not against higher volume for everyone. It’s individual but I get nothing out of high volume training. 
Mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth not volume. 
High volume training is honestly counterproductive for most people. 
Volume is there to make up for lack of effort or intensity. If you have the ability to truly train hard then you will not be able to handle much volume. 
I only use 1-3 exercises per body part, with 2-3 working sets per exercise. 
If someone isn’t recovering it’s counterproductive to tell them to lower effort and intensity and raise volume. 
They should never sacrifice effort for more volume. 
You don’t grow in the gym and more isn’t better, better is better. 
With volume there’s an inverse u curve where it becomes counterproductive. 
Heavy is relative and it doesn’t have to be low weight. 
You do have to have sets that are atleast close to failure.


----------



## Methyl mike (Jan 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’m not against higher volume for everyone. It’s individual but I get nothing out of high volume training.
> Mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth not volume.
> High volume training is honestly counterproductive for most people.
> Volume is there to make up for lack of effort or intensity. If you have the ability to truly train hard then you will not be able to handle much volume.
> ...


I believe you meant to say heavy is relative and doesn't have to be low reps. Also it's been proven that muscle growth occurs even with high repetitions IE 20 or more in a set so long as the set is taken to momentary muscular failure.


----------



## Badleroybrown (Jan 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’m not against higher volume for everyone. It’s individual but I get nothing out of high volume training.
> Mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth not volume.
> High volume training is honestly counterproductive for most people.
> Volume is there to make up for lack of effort or intensity. If you have the ability to truly train hard then you will not be able to handle much volume.
> ...


Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life. 
So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12
Then I out 10 pounds on the bar.bang out 8.
The fourth set would be another set of. A hard 8
Then I drop that weight to 160 and pound out a set of 12.
Last set is the same weight and I bang out a solid ten.
At this point I am smoked.
Is this lack of effort,  is this not training hard.
I challenge you to this.
Next time you train shoulders.
Do this.
Then let me know how it goes for you.
So sure back in the pl days or when I was training in the lower range I did train in the 5-6 rep range. Much weight.
I grow better in the higher rep range.
There is nothing wrong with high volume training.
What works for me does not work for you.
But I am not a trainer but I gaurentee I have trained with many people and they have grown and they have beat or’s.
When someone questions a persons effort or training intensity, I wish I could train with that person my way… I gaurentee. This person would have a hard home walking on leg day. Or lifting there shaker bottle on shoulders.
Soooo yes you showed a picture of yourself.
I commend you for the shape you are in. Takes hard work and dedication. I am not knocking any of that. I am saying that I gaurentee you that you have a coach or someone setting up a training reg ad diet..You may even be a semi pro.
Most people do not have that luxury.
So you should not shoot out regurgated shit. Cause it may not work for the next guy.🤙


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
> You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life.
> So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
> And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
> ...


Regurgitated shit? What I said isn’t debatable it’s proven and objectively true.
I’ve worked with a couple of coaches but no I don’t have a coach. I’ve studied a lot and I’ve also helped people for 15 years  with diet and training, for free. The majority of my 20 years has not been with a coach.
Your hypothetical situation shows your lack of understanding and comprehension.
If you do 2 working sets of hack squats for quads, the first you truly fail, bottom out with decent form for 12 reps. Then you do a set with a weight you can get say 15-20 reps but you stay under it until you get 30-50 reps and your legs are so shot you can barely walk then doing more will be counterproductive.
The only way you could do more is if you lowered your effort or intensity. Literally,not even up for debate, objectively, volume is there to make up for lack of effort.
You keep talking about lower rep ranges. Who said anything about lower rep ranges. Heavy is relative. I’d say a widow maker set starts feeling pretty heavy.
Honestly from this thread and the other thread with the guy you were defending you really have a lack of understanding about any of this.
The reason I don’t only do 1 working set for a body part is because I can’t put fourth enough effort to produce growth from it. If I could completely destroy the muscle from 1 set then 2 or 3 or 20 would be counterproductive and do nothing but dig into my recovery.
You need to learn more before you give advice


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
> You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life.
> So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
> And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
> ...


 I do all my own training and diet. 
If a guy takes bench from 95 for let’s say 10-20 reps and over time gets it to 300lbs for 10-20 reps he will have a much larger chest regardless of volume.


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 29, 2022)

For educational purposes effort=how close you are to failure.
Intensity is how close you are to your 1 rep max.
There’s also a direct relationship with volume and effort and/or intensity.
I never said high volume doesn’t work but  higher effort and or intensity=lower recoverable volume.
So yes volume is there to make up for lack of effort and or intensity. Whether intentional or otherwise. 
It’s not an insult it’s just true


----------



## CJ (Jan 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
> You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life.
> So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
> And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
> ...


Pulled quote.... "So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12....." 

The issue with your example is that I HIGHLY doubt anyone is getting a set of 15 and then a set of 12 with 87.5% of their 1 rep max weight.


----------



## Badleroybrown (Jan 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Pulled quote.... "So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
> And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
> First set is a set of 15
> And my second was a set of 12....."
> ...


Understand your point. But I was just making a point using hypothetical numbers. I was not calculating percentages.  .  I will tell your this… it is doable if the percentages were figured out correctly. It would be mor like 65-70% 1 rep max..


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## Be_A_Hero (Jan 30, 2022)

IMO the holy grail is high reps of heavy weight. Just gotta work hard to get to that point. I’m no expert just my 2 cents


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

Be_A_Hero said:


> IMO the holy grail is high reps of heavy weight. Just gotta work hard to get to that point. I’m no expert just my 2 cents


This might be the most straightforward and logical comment 

Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I do all my own training and diet.
> If a guy takes bench from 95 for let’s say 10-20 reps and over time gets it to 300lbs for 10-20 reps he will have a much larger chest regardless of


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> This might be the most straightforward and logical comment
> 
> Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.


Hmmmmmmm can I have the floor please. I must say this though… I do not squat anymore.


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## Send0 (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> This might be the most straightforward and logical comment
> 
> Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.


I thought it was confusing. "Heavy" is relative to the individual. If someone does high reps, then wouldn't that mean they've lowered the weight to an amount that is moderate to them to be able to hit the desired volume?

I have volume days and heavy days in my routine. I could never achieve my volume days if I tried to use the same weight as my heavy days.

Maybe I've misunderstood what you meant?


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## TomJ (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> This might be the most straightforward and logical comment
> 
> Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.


"Heavy" is relative, If you can get 20+ reps then its not heavy.


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I thought it was confusing. "Heavy" is relative to the individual. If someone does high reps, then wouldn't that mean they've lowered the weight to an amount that is moderate to them to be able to hit the desired volume?
> 
> I have volume days and heavy days in my routine. I could never achieve my volume days if I tried to use the same weight as my heavy days.
> 
> Maybe I've misunderstood what you meant?


Heavy is relative. A 20 rep failure or beyond failure set will feel pretty heavy by the end. 
I don’t have volume days. I never have. I’m not sure why they’re even needed as far as building muscle. Look at something like DC you’re pushing progressively heavier weights for higher reps with the rest pause sets. 
People over complicate building muscle whether it’s training or diet. 
It’s so simple. 
Also if you’re pushing big weights for higher reps there’s no way you’re not going to be big.


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

TomJ said:


> "Heavy" is relative, If you can get 20+ reps then its not heavy.


According to you. If I take a weight I’ll fail with for 8-10 reps and I stay under until I get 20 I’d say I moved some heavy weight for high reps. 
Maybe you’ve never done a widow maker or dc style rest pause set.


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## TomJ (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> According to you. If I take a weight I’ll fail with for 8-10 reps and I stay under until I get 20 I’d say I moved some heavy weight for high reps.
> Maybe you’ve never done a widow maker or dc style rest pause set.


That's not 20+ reps. That's 8-10 reps with intensifier work. 
If you're gonna say 20+ reps, without further elaboration, then you're talking straight sets. 

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Send0 (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Heavy is relative. A 20 rep failure or beyond failure set will feel pretty heavy by the end.
> I don’t have volume days. I never have. I’m not sure why they’re even needed as far as building muscle. Look at something like DC you’re pushing progressively heavier weights for higher reps with the rest pause sets.
> People over complicate building muscle whether it’s training or diet.
> It’s so simple.
> Also if you’re pushing big weights for higher reps there’s no way you’re not going to be big.


No I think you may have misunderstood my question. Let me simplify..

If you can push for 20 reps, then is the weight actually heavy for that individual? Because I would think it would be considered moderate.

I can't push the same weight I do for 8 reps at max RPE (heavy to me), on a pump or volume day.

If you are talking about achieving high reps by using rest pause technique in a given set, then that is a different ball game entirely. I would have described it as a set of 6-8, followed by as many rest pause's as it takes until you hit 20... But I suppose this is a case of "tomato tomatoe".

Thanks for clarifying


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

TomJ said:


> That's not 20+ reps. That's 8-10 reps with intensifier work.
> If you're gonna say 20+ reps, without further elaboration, then you're talking straight sets.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


So if I did a widow maker I didn’t take a weight I’d fail 8-10 and push it to 20+? Does an intensifier change the fact that it’s the same set?


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## Be_A_Hero (Jan 30, 2022)

So when I said “heavy” i meant a weight that’s typically not lifted by many ppl for many reps. It is relative but at a certain point it’s not. A 225 bench is light to some ppl, heavy to others that’s relative. However I don’t care who you are a 365 bench isn’t fucking light


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## Be_A_Hero (Jan 30, 2022)

Please excuse my language


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## TomJ (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So if I did a widow maker I didn’t take a weight I’d fail 8-10 and push it to 20+? Does an intensifier change the fact that it’s the same set?


so then a straight set with 20+ reps is the same as a rest pause to 20 reps by your arguement?


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

TomJ said:


> so then a straight set with 20+ reps is the same as a rest pause to 20 reps by your arguement?


No but it’s still the same set pushing a heavy weight for high reps


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 30, 2022)

I am confused… RIRO
I am not looking to argue because I feel it is pointless too
YOur origanal comment was 
I am not going to use the numbers you put
Because like mine I am going to assume they were an estimated.
So you said if someone can bench 300 for 20 squat 400 for 20 and row 225 for 20 they gotta be big..
But take that out of the equation. Because heavy to SendO is light to me..
(No offense Send)
So why not train till failure if you are talking aboutRest Puase/ Widow makers and everything else.
And don’t say someone can’t grow with failure everyday.
If you are chemically enhanced you can do this. May need another off day but this can be done.
I train most of the time with the heavy’s weight I can and the highest reps I can..
This is just me. It may not work for you.
I mostly stay in the 12-15 range most of the time.
I will bang out sets of 20/30/40 depending how I feel.
It is nothing for me to pin the rack at 40-50lbs and bang out my first set of tri Pd for 30 reps.
Is this not heavy weight.?  I would say for most it is.. 
will I not grow from this? If I keep this at the same weight and do 5-6 7 sets until I am down to 15-20 reps.
I do grow. 
So the whole training in the heavyweights that one can for low reps. 
This will get you strong fast and grow at a slower pace. Especially someone who is not chemically enhanced. 
As far as I am concerned you are trying to argue technical points that most people do not know or follow..
The whole blah blah blah of you are just trying to keep it real, is you just trying to argue.. 
everyone trains different. If it works for them it works for them..
And like I said before . Take someone in Lock Up(Prison)
All they have is a dip bar/pull up and push-ups. Do they grow. I’ve seen some big mothers come out of jail 2x the size the flu did before they got in.
And they live on ramen noodles and tuna and shitty protien powder they can by at the canteen..


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## Send0 (Jan 30, 2022)

No offense will ever be taken from me... I would never argue that I'm strong 😅.


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 30, 2022)




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## Badleroybrown (Jan 30, 2022)

He is a future IFBB PRO!!


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## Kingjpwn (Jan 30, 2022)

Yeah the current training style I have is very much different from the one I posted, I'll put it under spoiler again.

Not a lot of fancy shit, just straight up training with maximum intesity I can put on every set, semi long rest times between set to really get the effort in.
Really looking forward to see what kind of results I'm going to get from this first cycle... 2.5 weeks in...

Work outs are 2.5h-3h, if adding up the warm up, cardio and stretching.



Spoiler



Legs 1
Leg curl 1 warmup, 4x10-12
Hack squat 3 warm ups, 2x8-10 
Cable leg curls 2x12-15
Bss 1 warmup, 2x8-10
Hip adduction 3x12-15
Single leg extension 3x10-12
Seated calves 3x30

Push 1
Incline smith press 3 warm ups, 3 x 6-10 (forced rest pause after every set)
DB bench 2 warm ups, 2x8-10
Cable crossover 2-3x12-15
Seated side laterals 1 warm up, 3x12
Cable laterals 2x12-15
Front press 2 warm ups, 2x8-10
Rope pushdown 3x12-15
Reverse grip tricep pushdown 2x12-15
Reverse crunch 3 x max

Pull 1
Lat pulldown 2 warm ups, 3x10
Barbell row 4 warm ups, 2x6-8 or 2x8-10 idk
Dumbbell row 1 warm up, 2x10
Cable row 15,12,10,8,6
SS:
Machine rear delts 3x10-15
Hyperextension 3x12-20
Concentrated curl 1 warm up, 2x12-15
2 x 21s
Standing hammer curl 2 x 12-15 

Legs 2
Lying leg curl 3x10-12, last set 2 drops + partials
Hack squat 3-4 warm ups, 3x5 (progression model either more sets or weight not sure)
Cable leg curls 2x12-15
Smith squat 2 warm ups, 2x10
Smith glute bridge 1 warm up, 2x10-12
Single leg extension 3x10-12
Smith calves 3x20


Push 2 
Machine press 4 warm ups, 2x8
Smith bench 2 warm ups, 2x8-10 (+ back off)
Cable flyes (lying on bench) 3x 12-15
Cable laterals 2 x 12
Standing laterals 2 x 10-12
Front raises 2x 10-15
Tricep pushdown 1 warm up, 3x12
Overhead tricep extension 3 x 12
Cable crunch 3x10-15


Pull 2
Reverse grip lat pulldown 2 warm ups, 3x10 (mutka tanko)
T bar row 2 warm ups, 3x10
Chest supported row 2 warm ups, 2x8-12
Cable pullover 3x15
Facepull 2x12-15
Incline db curl 1 warm up, 2x12-15
Rope curl 2x12-15
Preacher curl 2x12-15


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> I am confused… RIRO
> I am not looking to argue because I feel it is pointless too
> YOur origanal comment was
> I am not going to use the numbers you put
> ...


You are confused and need to reread everything I’ve said. You have terrible reading comprehension issues.
I train to failure and beyond every day I train on every working set.
I train in a whole range of rep ranges from 1-30.

I gave an example of some weights with higher reps and said if someone could do those weights for 20+ they be big regardless of how much volume they used to get there.
Would that guy not be a big mother fucker?
Instead of seeing this response for what it was you got stuck on it.

To get big you have to be strong!!!!
To grow big muscles you have to move progressively heavy weights.

You will not build a big chest just infinitely adding reps with 95lbs.
At some point you have to up the weight aka mechanical tension.
There’s a reason no one is going to get massive using fuckimg soup cans.
After about 30 reps you’re no longer building tissue.
There’s so many studies and so much evidence for this shit.
I explained everything clear enough to where my 3 year old daughter could probably understand.

When did I say low weights were necessary?
Guys that get big doing calesthinics are either fat or guys that would get muscular doing anything. They are not the norm. Y
You’re ignoring the majority of the guys locked up who are not big and muscular.

Goddamn I’ve literally addressed all this in prior posts.

I’ll be honest I think you’re an idiot. And your physique is a reflection of what you don’t know.

I’m an advocate for lower volume failure training. I’ve never even alluded to otherwise.
I think high volume sub failure training is useless for most people.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Please actually read everything I’ve written before you respond.

Technical points that most people don’t know or follow? 
Buddy I’m talking about basic shit.


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## Send0 (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’ll be honest I think you’re an idiot. And your physique is a reflection of what you don’t know.


Im doing you a courtesy here, because I know you honestly have good intentions with the content you post.

Please dial it back.

I'm not a saint.. I often write posts that have, what I'll kindly say is not so friendly language, only to delete it before I even submit the post.

When I'm in that situation, I realize that if I'm lowering myself in a way that results in insults then it's not worth my time or effort to post anything at all.



> Technical points that most people don’t know or follow?
> Buddy I’m talking about basic shit.


To be fair, I thought you were talking about a straight set of 20 reps. That's way different than rest-pause. Your posts didn't make that clear until a few of us kept asking you about it.

It does help to be a little more verbose sometimes.


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You are confused and need to reread everything I’ve said. You have terrible reading comprehension issues.
> I train to failure and beyond every day I train on every working set.
> I train in a whole range of rep ranges from 1-30.
> 
> ...


Bro. Like i said . Not trying to argue with you.. but all my time in UG. I have had only one shit post. And I belive you have given me 2 or 3.. don’t know what the point is if that. 
I personally think your a little condescending little Fuck..
You get off with all your technical bullshit.. Go fuck yourself!! It’s guys like you that I despise.. I would love to train with you one day. I would have you pucking all over your Pink  Optomex Sneakers!!😂😂😂😂you probably don’t even know what they are. Oh wait I am sure you wear your Nike air max with skinny sweats. One of them.  I can guarantee I have have touch and moved numbers that you can only wish or dream about. Without following any bullshit plan you can come up with.. 
So I say this. Shit post me all you want.. you are still a little Bi**h. And I am sure you’ll come back with some blah blah blah shit talk. But that’s ok. There are a lot of internet touch guys.. 
And to the Mods. You know I never get like this so please forgive me and don’t give me a ban… 
But I have to say my peace..🤙


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 30, 2022)

BTW Bro..
Not so sure what is wrong with this physique!


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> BTW Bro..
> Not so sure what is wrong with this physique!
> View attachment 17792


You’re fat.


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## RiR0 (Jan 30, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Bro. Like i said . Not trying to argue with you.. but all my time in UG. I have had only one shit post. And I belive you have given me 2 or 3.. don’t know what the point is if that.
> I personally think your a little condescending little Fuck..
> You get off with all your technical bullshit.. Go fuck yourself!! It’s guys like you that I despise.. I would love to train with you one day. I would have you pucking all over your Pink  Optomex Sneakers!!😂😂😂😂you probably don’t even know what they are. Oh wait I am sure you wear your Nike air max with skinny sweats. One of them.  I can guarantee I have have touch and moved numbers that you can only wish or dream about. Without following any bullshit plan you can come up with..
> So I say this. Shit post me all you want.. you are still a little Bi**h. And I am sure you’ll come back with some blah blah blah shit talk. But that’s ok. There are a lot of internet touch guys..
> ...


Otomix? 😂 well I wear old old shoes usually or I’m in socks.
You’ve said your piece and still added nothing of value.
I shit posted you because it was a shit post where you showed nothing but your failure to read or comprehend.
I base my opinions about you on your avi and what you post.
You respond based off of your weird imagination.


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## Send0 (Jan 30, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Bro. Like i said . Not trying to argue with you.. but all my time in UG. I have had only one shit post. And I belive you have given me 2 or 3.. don’t know what the point is if that.
> I personally think your a little condescending little Fuck..
> You get off with all your technical bullshit.. Go fuck yourself!! It’s guys like you that I despise.. I would love to train with you one day. I would have you pucking all over your Pink  Optomex Sneakers!!😂😂😂😂you probably don’t even know what they are. Oh wait I am sure you wear your Nike air max with skinny sweats. One of them.  I can guarantee I have have touch and moved numbers that you can only wish or dream about. Without following any bullshit plan you can come up with..
> So I say this. Shit post me all you want.. you are still a little Bi**h. And I am sure you’ll come back with some blah blah blah shit talk. But that’s ok. There are a lot of internet touch guys..
> ...


No ban.. you both had your fill. Let's can the insults all around now.

No more freebies from here on. Next person, any person, to violate rule #1 will get an insta-ban without warning.


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