# The HotnFit E/C Method



## PillarofBalance (Feb 8, 2012)

Usually when someone asks whats the best way to incorporate ephedrine into their supplementation I wind up referring them to this site. Figured I'd do a c&p and just keep the traffic here 

Introduction

The EC stack is a term meaning ephedrine HCL and caffeine taken together to aid fat loss. Do NOT take the EC stack if you are under 18 years of age. 

If you take an EC stack, I suggest taking 2-3 g of NOW Ultra Omega-3 (fish oils) daily as it may help counteract an increase in blood pressure. Check your blood pressure frequently to be sure it is within the safe range (not pre-hypertension or hypertension range) before and during use of an EC stack. Do not exceed the recommended dose of fish oils as this will put you at risk for internal bleeding (similar to overdosing on aspirin). You may want to add 2 NOW EGCg (green tea extract) daily to the EC stack. Coffee may be substituted for caffeine, 5 oz of coffee contains approximately 80-100 mg of caffeine.

The EC stack was shown through clinical trials (length up to 24 weeks) to increase the basal metabolic rate (calories burned at rest) significantly. It was also shown to help preserve lean body mass on a caloric deficit.

The EC stack is usually taken in 6-8 week cycles, 2-3 times per day, for maximum fat loss. Using the EC stack in a continuous fashion may cause the stimulant effects (such as possible increased blood pressure, increased heart rate, jitters) to dissipate. However, as suggested by the clinical trials, the fat burning effects and muscle sparing effects should continue.

Regarding Aspirin

Popular ephedra supplements of the past often contained aspirin (or its herbal equivalent, white willow bark). I do not endorse adding aspirin to the EC stack. If you wish to add it, stick to the baby aspirin (81mg). I have several reasons for this

1) The major study(24 weeks!) on the efficacy and safety of the EC stack when used over a long term for weight loss did not include aspirin. Yes, it is VERY effective without the aspirin.
Quoting Brian Haycock's article,

In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by a calorie restricted diet and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20 mg), caffeine (200 mg) or placebo three times a day for 24 weeks. Average weight loss was significantly greater with the combination than with placebo from week 8 to week 24. Weight loss in both the ephedrine only and the caffeine only groups was similar to that of the placebo group.
2) The "effective dosage" at which aspirin was added to the EC stack was at 325 mg. 325 mg of aspirin 3 times a day puts you at risk for developing ulcers and other gastrointestinal symptoms. Again, if you would like to use it to decrease risks/chances of high blood pressure, stick to the 81mg aspirin.

Quoting RxList's aspirin page
Doses of 1,000 mg per day of aspirin caused gastrointestinal symptoms and bleeding that, in some cases, were clinically significant. In the largest postinfarction study (the Aspirin Myocardial Infarction Study (AMIS) with 4,500 people), the percentage of incidences of gastrointestinal symptoms for the aspirin (1,000 mg of a standard, solid-tablet formulation) and placebo-treated subjects, respectively, were stomach pain (14.5%, 4.4%), heartburn (11.9%, 4.8%), nausea and/or vomiting (7.6%, 2.1%), hospitalization for GI disorder (4.9%, 3.5%). In the A.I. and other trials, aspirin-treated patients had increased rates of gross gastrointestinal bleeding. Symptoms and signs of gastrointestinal irritation were not significantly increased in subjects treated for unstable angina with buffered aspirin in solution.
3) Aspirin is an NSAID (nonsteriodal antiinflammatory drug), and NSAIDs should not be used long term at dosages of ~1000 mg a day except if under the supervision of a physician. 

Dosing based on 20 or 25 mg ephedrine HCL pills (or ephedrine sulfate)

Note: 1E = 20 or 25 mg ephedrine 
and .5E = 10 or 12.5 mg ephedrine

I am assuming caffeine tablets of 200 mg. So 1C = 200 mg, .5C = 100 mg 
The caffeine tablets do not break in half well, approximate is fine.

A pill splitter works well on the ephedrine (can get at any pharmacy).

Day 1 - This day you would just take 1 dose to test whether you are hypersensitive to ephedrine (very rare). The dose will be .5E .5C
- symptoms of fast heart rate, and slight jitters are typical - like the feeling you get from having a lot of coffee.

Day 2-3 - You take 3 doses of .5 E .5C minimum 4 hours apart. I suggest keeping it so your last dose is at least 6 hours away from your bedtime.

Day 4-7 - Your dosing will be 1E 1C, .5E .5C, .5E .5C That is, you take full dose for your first dose only.

Day 8-14 - 1E 1C, 1E 1C, .5E .5C 

Day 15 and onward - 1E 1C 3x/day

If you have trouble sleeping, keep your last dose 6-8 hours pre bed and/or decrease to 2 doses per day.




Dosing based on 8 mg ephedrine HCL pills

Note: 1E = One 8 mg ephedrine HCL pill

I am assuming caffeine tablets of 200 mg.
The caffeine tablets do not break in half well, approximate is fine.

A pill splitter works well on the ephedrine (can get at any pharmacy).

Day 1 - This day you just take 1 dose to test whether you are hypersensitive to ephedrine (very rare). The dose will be 1 E .5C
- symptoms of fast heart rate, and slight jitters are typical - like the feeling you get from having a lot of coffee.

Day 2-3 - You take 3 doses of 1 E .5C minimum 4 hours apart. I suggest keeping it so your last dose is at least 6 hours away from your bedtime.

Day 4-6 - Your dosing will be 2E 1C, 1E .5C, 1E .5C

Day 7-9 - 2E 1C, 2E 1C, 1E .5C

Day 9-11 - 2E 1C 3x/day

Day 12-14 - 3E 1C, 3E 1C, 2E 1C 
Day 15 and onward - 3E 1C 3x/day

If you have trouble sleeping, keep your last dose 6-8 hours pre bed and/or decrease to 2 doses per day.

Things to Note

Note 1 - Do NOT take any other caffeinated products while on EC such as tea, cola, coffee. Drink additional water since caffeine is a diuretic. 

Note 2 - If you have bladder issues/discomfort decrease your dose (either cut it in half, or take 2 doses per day instead of 3).
Note 3 - After ~4 weeks the loss of appetite and extra energy will mellow out, but the thermogenic effects continue for a very long time, so it is your choice whether to cycle off. The fat loss effects should continue. If you choose to take a 2 week break after 6-8 weeks, you can stay on the caffeine. You would go back to day 2 and raise the ephedrine slowly according to the schedule above when you go back on. I do not recommend exceeding 8 straight weeks. Take a minimum 2 week break after 8 weeks. Then restart with day 2.

Note 4 - The loss of appetite can be so severe that you may feel like throwing up if you eat a lot (in the first 1-2 weeks). I suggest eating very small meals (eg. 200 cals each) frequently, and feel free to add things which are not filling eg. cereal with milk, fruit, whey shakes.. try to ensure you eat at least at your BMR.

Note 5 - Taking an asthma inhaler while on EC may lead to overdose (they have similar activity). If you need to take inhalers for asthma, I would suggest NOT taking an EC stack.

Note 6 - Do NOT use in the heat. It is very easy to get overheated due to the thermogenic effects and this puts you at risk. You may want to avoid using this is very warm climates and/or outdoors.

Discontinue use if you experience: irregular heart beat, skipped heart beats, high blood pressure, panic, dizziness, agitation, or any other symptoms that concern you.

An EC Stack can cause your heart rate to rise, and extremely intensity activity should be avoided (eg. HIIT). I suggest not raising your heart rate above 80% MHR during cardio, that is 0.8*(220 - age). Weightlifting is not the same as HIIT as your heart rate does go up high, but you are resting frequently and it goes down. Some sports could be an issue. Remember you can always skip a dose before an activity where this would be an issue!




Contraindications (there may be more, these are some main ones)

Do not use if you are hypersensitive to stimulants or ephedrine.

Do not use EC with SSRIs, SNRIs, MAOI, or other forms of antidepressants, or within 2 weeks of halting/taking antidepressants. Do not use if you have a psychoneurosis (bipolar disorder, severe depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc).

Do not use if you have kidney problems, impaired adrenal function, hypoxia, hypercapnia, acidosis, hypertension, hyperthyroidism, prostatic hypertrophy, diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease, or are pregnant or breastfeeding.

Do not use if you have heart palpitations or heart defects. Do not use if you have diabetes.

Additional contraindications for the use of ephedrine include: closed angle glaucoma, phaeochromocytoma, asymmetric septal hypertrophy (idiopathic hypertrophic subaortic stenosis), tachyarrhythmias or ventricular fibrillation.

Ephedrine should NOT be used at any time during pregnancy or breastfeeding, or while trying to become pregnant (unless under direction of a doctor).

Ephedrine should not ordinarily be used in those cases where vasopressor drugs may be contraindicated, e. g., in thyrotoxicosis, diabetes, and other cardiovascular disorders.




Shopping in the US

In Stores 

Ephedrine can be found behind the counter in drug stores (eg. Walgreens) in a product called Bronkaid (which is an over the counter asthma med). You can use Bayer's product locator to see which stores have it. Caffeine can be found in drug stores, wal-mart and supplement stores. 

Shopping in Canada

Info for Canada deleted by PoB... Fuck you Canada, ya bunch of inferiority complex having, cheese eating surrender monkeys.


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