# Advice for a newbie after health issues



## Budha (Mar 8, 2017)

So I am asking for opinions and advice for myself. I've been working out for about 5 years and am now 42 I began pretty late in life. 
I had always wanted to improve my body but was too busy for a regular gym routine. Mid 30's I felt I had more time to dedicate to the gym but thought I could still live my unhealthy lifestyle and still be healthy cause I lifted. So after about 4 years of lifting I got pretty sick. In and out of hospitals with symptoms of abdomen pain and trouble breathing. Fast forward 2 years and 40 pounds of weight loss I found out that I had an unhealthy liver from to many good times drinking, a gallstone stuck in my main bile duct (Choledocholithiasis) which caused mild pancreatitis and elevated liver enzymes, and some odd reason neuropathy in my abdomen.
So I made a major life overhaul, stopped drinking stopped chewing started eating way cleaner I reversed the liver problems and got left with only some nerve damage. I say only cause I think it could have been alot worse. 

Okay so the problem is after about 2 years I am trying to get back into the gym, I lost ALL the muscle I built in those few years and gained more fat than before. I've been hard at the gym for about 6 months back and BARELY made any gains. So before weight was about 200lbs and 20% body fat, sick weight I went down to 160lbs now I'm back to about 190lbs with 23% body fat. 

So the question is should I say **** this and start with some Test e? I know what the first answer is oh wait you have health problems you don't want to complicate things. Well my answer is "**** YOU" not really, but hey being older now my gains just aren't what they used to be and as far as I'm concerned my health problems are good now. I'm frustrated as shit with not being able to get good gains. So looking for advice on the matter.


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## TrickWilliams (Mar 8, 2017)

I would take a step back and maybe get some bloods done. Lets figure out where all your levels are at before we derail this train completely. 

You might be a good candidate for TRT, but like I said. Lets make sure before you start self medicating.

Set up an appointment with your Doc.


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## DieYoungStrong (Mar 8, 2017)

You're 42. Go to a Dr and get bloods done. If you have low test, they'll put you on trt. Pretty simple.


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## Budha (Mar 9, 2017)

Yeh that could be a good place to start, although I doubt they would want to give me an effective amount.

What recommended tests?

testost
cbc


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 9, 2017)

Budha said:


> Yeh that could be a good place to start, although I doubt they would want to give me an effective amount.
> 
> What recommended tests?
> 
> ...



The recommended amount for TRT is the lowest dose that alleviates any symptoms you might have and normalizes blood levels. TRT doses won't make you into the next Ronnie coleman. 

Tests that should be done are your basic CBC and metabolic panels along with E2, total testosterone, LH, and FSH.


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## Dex (Mar 9, 2017)

We should all guess and see who gets closest. I'm down for 272.


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## SHRUGS (Mar 9, 2017)

Gimme Tree Fity.
!S!


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## ToolSteel (Mar 9, 2017)

Based on his attitude I'm going 113

WITH elevated e2


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## Budha (Mar 9, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Based on his attitude I'm going 113
> 
> WITH elevated e2



So if I get a worse attitude will this number go up, testosterone increases aggressiveness right :O


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## IHI (Mar 9, 2017)

Budha said:


> So if I get a worse attitude will this number go up, testosterone increases aggressiveness right :O



Its managable with experience, im down to only going to jail for beating on men and women every few months now, better than ever week when i first got on trt.

Heres the real deal, if your an asshole with a hair trigger before, youll still be an asshole with a hair trigger after a trt gets implemented, same goes for blasting.

Truth is, your older now, went thru some major body stuff, get labs so you know where you stand.

Ill say 240 range for my guess


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## BRICKS (Mar 9, 2017)

242.  And what Doc said ^^^


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## StillKickin (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm going with 319.


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## Budha (Mar 10, 2017)

Alright well I'm going to have to get in on this so I can win the prize... there is a prize right 

Ill say 300

I've got a call to doc supposed to call me back tomorrow for an appt, thanks for the advice I'll post back the results soon as I get em

Testosterone, total
Testosterone, bioavailable
Testosterone, free
Estradiol (sensitive assay)
Steroid Hormone Binding Globulin
Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Luteinizing Hormone (LH)
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT)
Complete Blood Count (CBC)
Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA)
Blood Chemistry Panel
Metabolic Panel

this is the list of bloods I'm going to ask for, is that too much.


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## Budha (Mar 28, 2017)

After much delay I finally got tests back today. Doc only did 2 tests. test free, and test total. Test total was 409, pretty much too high to get prescription and too low to feel good (imo). The questions are who won the bet.... And where do I go from here.


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## pgcc0313 (Apr 2, 2017)

I'm no Dr. Not that most Dr's have any clue anyway. But, I don't see how some test e at a reasonable dose is going to hurt you. You said your health issues are resolved, I know the liver regenerates totally unless you destroy it. Go get a physical first to put your mind at ease but 500 Mgs or so of test e a week, I just can't see any problems especially if you live a healthy lifestyle. I actually recently read a medical article (no Im not a science geek who usually does this but it caught my attention) that talked about a study proving testosterone injections are not liver toxic at all. I forget the dose they used in the study, should have saved it. Anyway, good luck man.


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## pgcc0313 (Apr 2, 2017)

Oh, and also in the article there was a large section on how what the medical community says is "normal" test levels for men is totally wrong and way too low.


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## Budha (Apr 2, 2017)

Agreed, this labs low level was 250, i think that i unacceptable in terms of how hormones affect you.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 2, 2017)

pgcc0313 said:


> Oh, and also in the article there was a large section on how what the medical community says is "normal" test levels for men is totally wrong and way too low.





Budha said:


> Agreed, this labs low level was 250, i think that i unacceptable in terms of how hormones affect you.



Unfortunately neither of you know how reference ranges work. The ranges are fine. The results and ranges may not be acceptable to you but that doesn't mean the problem lies in the tests nor ranges.


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## pgcc0313 (Apr 3, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Unfortunately neither of you know how reference ranges work. The ranges are fine. The results and ranges may not be acceptable to you but that doesn't mean the problem lies in the tests nor ranges.


I don't know I read a pretty long medical study that explained the reference ranges for certain age groups and how you could be at the bottom end of normal but still be getting bad symptoms of low testosterone. Wish I could find the article, it was from some medical journal(no I don't usually use medical journals as light reading, lol)


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## Budha (Apr 3, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Unfortunately neither of you know how reference ranges work. The ranges are fine. The results and ranges may not be acceptable to you but that doesn't mean the problem lies in the tests nor ranges.



Yes I probably dont know how reference ranges work, but I am still going to do my first cycle to see if it helps with gains and lack of energy. I just need to figure out a source if you have any recommendations. I am leaning towards Pharmacom since I dont have a source near by. I am just going with a standard 500mg test e I think to see how it goes unless you have a better recommendation.


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## ToolSteel (Apr 3, 2017)

I recommend not asking that question again unless you want booted.


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## Budha (Apr 4, 2017)

I get booted for recommendations? Hmm didnt know that wasnt allowed​ are there rules somewhere to read


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## Budha (Apr 4, 2017)

Budha said:


> I get booted for recommendations? Hmm didnt know that wasnt allowed​ are there rules somewhere to read


Nevermind found it thanks!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2017)

pgcc0313 said:


> I don't know I read a pretty long medical study that explained the reference ranges for certain age groups and how you could be at the bottom end of normal but still be getting bad symptoms of low testosterone. Wish I could find the article, it was from some medical journal(no I don't usually use medical journals as light reading, lol)



Anything that tries to sell you on age test levels for specific age groups is a marketing gimmick plain and simple. 

Define bottom end end of normal and there's a chance we can be in agreement but 409 is not bottom end of normal, It's just normal. Many symptoms of low test are also symptoms of a thousand other things but once someone is convinced they have low test there's no reasoning with them, which is only to their own detriment since they stop looking for the REAL cause of their issues.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2017)

Budha said:


> Yes I probably dont know how reference ranges work, but I am still going to do my first cycle to see if it helps with gains and lack of energy. I just need to figure out a source if you have any recommendations. I am leaning towards Pharmacom since I dont have a source near by. I am just going with a standard 500mg test e I think to see how it goes unless you have a better recommendation.



Of course a cycle will help with gains and energy but that doesn't mean you have low t to begin with. I'm not telling you you should or shouldn't cycle, only that whatever issues you have are not testosterone related.


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## pgcc0313 (Apr 4, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Anything that tries to sell you on age test levels for specific age groups is a marketing gimmick plain and simple.
> 
> Define bottom end end of normal and there's a chance we can be in agreement but 409 is not bottom end of normal, It's just normal. Many symptoms of low test are also symptoms of a thousand other things but once someone is convinced they have low test there's no reasoning with them, which is only to their own detriment since they stop looking for the REAL cause of their issues.


I wasn't really commenting on his exact situation, I was more commenting that you can fall within medical "normal" testosterone guidelines for your age and actually be low.


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## Budha (Jun 8, 2017)

So A little update on this. When I went to my doctor and got the test results it was just from the labs that did them and I never went back to my doc to talk about my test results. I finally did and talked to him about it all. And he told me that for my age he felt my test level was really low (409) total test. He said I should be around 1000 - 1200 for my age. He also did the extra test I had wanted was the Estroidal and it was a bit high. So now he has started me on Clomid to start with to naturally raise test and an anti-estrogen eventually? He said if this doesn't bring my test levels up to 1000 at least he will start me on injections. I think it worked well to just come clean with the doctor and tell him what you are aiming to do. He also didn't want me using black market gear so I think this may be part of the reason for getting treatment.

My advice find a doctor that actually cares and just be honest.


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## jake42 (Jul 2, 2017)

pgcc0313 said:


> Oh, and also in the article there was a large section on how what the medical community says is "normal" test levels for men is totally wrong and way too low.



I definitely think they have it too low


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