# Never understood why.....



## MASON DIXON (Oct 7, 2014)

I have never understood the reason behind the good ole US of A criminalizing PED's!!! If I wanna use them I should be able too. After all they were created to help beat the Russians in the Olympics and fight diseases that cause the body to waste away (AIDS, Cancer) and what not. But to classify them as a schedule 3 drug come on. I mean they give u and edge but if u r are worthless pos before them u will still be that person on them. They are a TOOL nothing more nothing less. It's pretty damn scary u can do hard time on possessing a substance that doesn't even get u high. 

Like some feedback from you guys on what u think about their drug classification and why u think they have been shunned all these years and the major crackdowns(operation gear grinder, raw deal) were they trying to stamp out major suppliers and push everything underground? Either way black market shit will always be around, I don't care what it is.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 7, 2014)

because we are slaves that live in a police state where all aspects of life are controlled .


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## cotton2012 (Oct 7, 2014)

Bundy pretty much nailed it...


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## Luscious Lei (Oct 7, 2014)

I think that it should be monitored to an extent, like preventing kids to have access to it, etc...but putting PEDs on the same schedule than rec drugs is a total nonsense.
AAS users are at 95% gymrats and at 5% elite athletes (note: I pull these stats out of my ass, these are assumptions but I shouldn't be too far from reality)
The vast majority of gymrats / athletes are law abidding tax payers with a job, a family, etc...Putting gear on the same schedule than crack or heroin just doesn't make sense.

Back in Europe, AAS are regulated but not on the same schedule than rec drugs and LE couldn't care less about them, they really got more important things to sort out. I had a parcel seized by customs one time, they called me to lecture me, sir, this is illegal, bla bla bla, but not only they didn't charge me with anything but a few months later I received my parcel, LOL. I guess they didn't want to go through the paperwork to get it destroyed.
Is the AAS use more widespread in my home country than in the US? Hell no, it is VERY marginal, even in the gym very, very few gymrats are juicing.

I now live in a country where AAS are OTC. Are they more commonly used here? Once again the answer is no, pretty much only the local competitive powerlifters / BBers and the expat gymrats are using them.

Putting AAS on the same schedule than rec drugs like in the US or in Oz does nothing except raising the market prices and pushing people to use shady UGLs.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 7, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> because we are slaves that live in a police state where all aspects of life are controlled .


I can't put it any better than this.

I will say I am happy to see the pro hormones come off the shelves. Those are not dietary supplements by definition. However the penalties should not be so severe or even criminal.

Weird how Marijuana is being legalized slowly but surely. But not anabolics. They continue to clamp down on them when the metal effects of mj are worse imo. 

We incarcerate a higher percentage of our population that every other developed nation and even some third world despotic shitholes. This has to end. LE is not the solution to substance abuse.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 7, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> I can't put it any better than this.
> 
> I will say I am happy to see the pro hormones come off the shelves. Those are not dietary supplements by definition. However the penalties should not be so severe or even criminal.
> 
> ...



How many people do you see come here worried about not having kids, never recovering HPTA, loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, lactating nipples, depression, gyno, etc and How many of these side effects can also be attributed to marijuana?


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## Iron1 (Oct 7, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> How many people do you see come here worried about not having kids, never recovering HPTA, loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, lactating nipples, depression, gyno, etc and How many of these side effects can also be attributed to marijuana?



Damnit Doc!


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## CptFKNplanet (Oct 7, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> How many people do you see come here worried about not having kids, never recovering HPTA, loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, lactating nipples, depression, gyno, etc and How many of these side effects can also be attributed to marijuana?



I think he said mental effects.......


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 7, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> How many people do you see come here worried about not having kids, never recovering HPTA, loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, lactating nipples, depression, gyno, etc and How many of these side effects can also be attributed to marijuana?


Those aren't mental effects. Had you not been high you probably would have seen I said that.

Put the blunt down homie lololol


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 7, 2014)

CptFKNplanet said:


> I think he said mental effects.......





PillarofBalance said:


> Those aren't mental effects. Had you not been high you probably would have seen I said that.
> 
> Put the blunt down homie lololol



I know mental effects were specified but what mental effects could compare to those physical ones? 

Distorted sense of time <----- that one is a real killer lol
Paranoia <----- AAS does the same
Magical or "random" thinking <----- again I'm shaking in my boots about magical thinking (where you at Mag?)
Short-term memory loss <----- short term and temporary in most cases
Anxiety and depression <------ AAS does the same

Never put it down lol. I swore till death did us part


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## LeanHerm (Oct 7, 2014)

Doc got owned. Lol.


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## CptFKNplanet (Oct 7, 2014)

I don't think there is any comparison between the two at all. I was just saying that PoB specified mental effects and you were listing physiological effects. IMO the physiological side effects of AAS use far outweigh any side effects of the ganj. Really the two just aren't in the same ballpark. All in all, as someone who partakes in both... I think both should be legal. Then again, I'm for the legalization of ALL "drugs". The government should not have a say in what I choose to do as long as it's not harming anyone else. Obviously that's not going to change anytime soon because of the privatized prison unions, tobacco company, alcohol, pharmaceutical, etc. lobbyists that have a stronghold on that front.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 7, 2014)

CptFKNplanet said:


> I don't think there is any comparison between the two at all. I was just saying that PoB specified mental effects and you were listing physiological effects. IMO the physiological side effects of AAS use far outweigh any side effects of the ganj. Really the two just aren't in the same ballpark. All in all, as someone who partakes in both... I think both should be legal. Then again, I'm for the legalization of ALL "drugs". The government should not have a say in what I choose to do as long as it's not harming anyone else. Obviously that's not going to change anytime soon because of the privatized prison unions, tobacco company, alcohol, pharmaceutical, etc. lobbyists that have a stronghold on that front.



That was my whole point Cappy-poo. The mental effects of the green pale are very similar to AAS while AAS ALSO has a host of physiological effects. I agree both should be legal but if forced to choose one, it would be the green by a long shot.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 7, 2014)

BigHerm said:


> Doc got owned. Lol.



You can own me on Sunday *wink* *wink*

^^^^ yes full on homo status


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## deadlift666 (Oct 7, 2014)

CptFKNplanet said:


> I don't think there is any comparison between the two at all. I was just saying that PoB specified mental effects and you were listing physiological effects. IMO the physiological side effects of AAS use far outweigh any side effects of the ganj. Really the two just aren't in the same ballpark. All in all, as someone who partakes in both... I think both should be legal. Then again, I'm for the legalization of ALL "drugs". The government should not have a say in what I choose to do as long as it's not harming anyone else. Obviously that's not going to change anytime soon because of the privatized prison unions, tobacco company, alcohol, pharmaceutical, etc. lobbyists that have a stronghold on that front.



It's tough to draw a line on what hurts other people. Ya, maybe you are robbing/assaulting someone for meth money, but plenty of more recreational drugs, like weed can affect those around you too. You can hurt people around you, physically or otherwise, due to weed use or steroid use. 

On another note, don't get me started on the tobacco and alcohol argument. Especially alcohol.


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## AlphaD (Oct 7, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> They continue to clamp down on them when the metal effects of mj are worse imo.



No he clearly stated *METAL* effects.  AAS makes you listen to slayer, Marijuana, well Dave Mathews..........


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 7, 2014)

Doc I think you know I don't judge people for smoking. If you didn't well... I dont. Everyone has their vice. Mine is getting laid.

Anyway my opinions on pot are formed from my own experiences with it. I look at it like I do anti depressants. It makes you ok with whatever is going on around you. An escape similar to alcohol but without increased mortality. 

PED on the other hand get most to work harder eat better and strive to be their best.

Again my experience. I don't know maybe you write complex algorithms or are working to cure herpes when you smoke. I just ate funyons drank mountain dew and forgot about how much I hated the world and everyone in it.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 7, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Doc I think you know I don't judge people for smoking. If you didn't well... I dont. Everyone has their vice. Mine is getting laid.
> 
> Anyway my opinions on pot are formed from my own experiences with it. I look at it like I do anti depressants. It makes you ok with whatever is going on around you. An escape similar to alcohol but without increased mortality.
> 
> ...



I know that POB. Never meant it to come off like that's what you were doing. I'll admit sometimes it does give me the munchies or make me lazy but most of the time it makes me more active, more sociable, and not hate everyone lol. That goes for everyone I associate with who also smokes too. I'll get started on the cure for herpes tonight


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## regular (Oct 7, 2014)

Over usage of AAS is associated with cardiovascular decline in some men. 

The government could do more to disrupt AAS sales but I think they know how silly combating AAS is. I've read countless AAS indictments and typically it's some young guy who wants to be sexually appealing, lifts weights, and wants to make a little cash. These guys typically have no criminal history to speak of and they wind up doing a year in federal prison. The lives of the guys who are indicted are disrupted because they now have a record. The cases against hormone dealers does absolutely nothing to hamper a dangerous criminal element. AAS users aren't killing each other over juice. It's a bunch of guys who lift their ass off, work hard, eat a lot of food, and typically have nothing to do with wider criminal activity. I can't imagine how unfulfilling it is to work a case and put some young man in prison for selling some juice. Meanwhile, cigarettes which kill people and serve no purpose whatsoever are legally sold. Also, you can legally juice, so long as your Dr. and some giant pharmaceutical company is your dealer as opposed to some young guy trying to pay for college.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 7, 2014)

regular said:


> Over usage of AAS is associated with cardiovascular decline in some men.
> 
> The government could do more to disrupt AAS sales but I think they know how silly combating AAS is. I've read countless AAS indictments and typically it's some young guy who wants to be sexually appealing, lifts weights, and wants to make a little cash. These guys typically have no criminal history to speak of and they wind up doing a year in federal prison. The lives of the guys who are indicted are disrupted because they now have a record. The cases against hormone dealers does absolutely nothing to hamper a dangerous criminal element. AAS users aren't killing each other over juice. It's a bunch of guys who lift their ass off, work hard, eat a lot of food, and typically have nothing to do with wider criminal activity. I can't imagine how unfulfilling it is to work a case and put some young man in prison for selling some juice. Meanwhile, cigarettes which kill people and serve no purpose whatsoever are legally sold. Also, you can legally juice, so long as your Dr. and some giant pharmaceutical company is your dealer as opposed to some young guy trying to pay for college.


That's a damn good point about the pharmaceutical company being the dealer. Compare it to Marijuana in my state. Medical use is now legal and the state is licensing dispensaries for a massive fee.

I think this step towards full legalization was a mistake on the part of the stoners. They will never see legalization now that the government can make all this money thru licensing. That is until they make a new tax stamp.

And about the cigarrettes. We need another boston tea party. Dump all the smokes into the ocean. A lot of states and local jurisdictions are starting to change the purchasing age to 21. That will result in a likely 90% decline in new smokers. The numbers in the studies are mind boggling. That will make a dent in longevity greater than vaccines (maybe). I would have to look up old data on deaths from infectious disease prior to mandatory vaccine to really confirm that.


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## CptFKNplanet (Oct 7, 2014)

deadlift666 said:


> It's tough to draw a line on what hurts other people. Ya, maybe you are robbing/assaulting someone for meth money, but plenty of more recreational drugs, like weed can affect those around you too. You can hurt people around you, physically or otherwise, due to weed use or steroid use.
> 
> On another note, don't get me started on the tobacco and alcohol argument. Especially alcohol.



I understand your point and I do agree... to an extent. When someone else's possessions or life / well being comes into danger, for instance robbing or assaulting someone, then you go to jail for robbery or assault. The factor of being on meth has nothing to do with it. The reason why you robbed or assaulted someone straight up doesn't matter. Bottom line, you robbed and/or assaulted someone, you are guilty, you get locked up FOR THAT REASON. You shouldn't get an extra 20 year sentence because you had some meth in your pocket when you got caught. 
Same goes for some asshole that can't control himself when his test levels are through the roof. You assault someone because of "roid rage"... well let's look at the path of decisions here. You consciously made the decisions all the way from purchasing everything to putting that needle in and squeezing the plunger. No one snuck into your room at night and dumped a gram of test into your ass. 
That argument is about as valid as "I only cheated cause I was drunk". People have this weird thing about not owning up to their own actions and reaching for the nearest scapegoat. Which is a whole other topic of debate. 
I guess my whole point here is whatever crime you committed and were found guilty of is what you should be punished for. And you shouldn't be put in prison for non-violent crimes, like selling, buying, or using drugs. Peru is a great example of what could happen.


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## Yaya (Oct 7, 2014)

either you're with us or you're with the terrorists


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 7, 2014)

I dont care who smokes as long as u let me hit it too


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 7, 2014)

Yaya said:


> either you're with us or you're with the terrorists



nothing like a slice of bush to get your day started


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## deadlift666 (Oct 7, 2014)

CptFKNplanet said:


> I understand your point and I do agree... to an extent. When someone else's possessions or life / well being comes into danger, for instance robbing or assaulting someone, then you go to jail for robbery or assault. The factor of being on meth has nothing to do with it. The reason why you robbed or assaulted someone straight up doesn't matter. Bottom line, you robbed and/or assaulted someone, you are guilty, you get locked up FOR THAT REASON. You shouldn't get an extra 20 year sentence because you had some meth in your pocket when you got caught.
> Same goes for some asshole that can't control himself when his test levels are through the roof. You assault someone because of "roid rage"... well let's look at the path of decisions here. You consciously made the decisions all the way from purchasing everything to putting that needle in and squeezing the plunger. No one snuck into your room at night and dumped a gram of test into your ass.
> That argument is about as valid as "I only cheated cause I was drunk". People have this weird thing about not owning up to their own actions and reaching for the nearest scapegoat. Which is a whole other topic of debate.
> I guess my whole point here is whatever crime you committed and were found guilty of is what you should be punished for. And you shouldn't be put in prison for non-violent crimes, like selling, buying, or using drugs. Peru is a great example of what could happen.



You totally missed my point. I was just saying it's tough to say that using any substance is a victimless act. There are many ways that your actions affect other people. And I used the example of a strung out methhead robbing someone as a very obvious example of drugs affecting other people. I don't buy the argument that weed or steroid use doesn't affect the people around us. Not saying either should be illegal necessarily. I just have a problem with that statement being a reason for why they should be legal.


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## CptFKNplanet (Oct 8, 2014)

deadlift666 said:


> You totally missed my point. I was just saying it's tough to say that using any substance is a victimless act. There are many ways that your actions affect other people. And I used the example of a strung out methhead robbing someone as a very obvious example of drugs affecting other people. I don't buy the argument that weed or steroid use doesn't affect the people around us. Not saying either should be illegal necessarily. I just have a problem with that statement being a reason for why they should be legal.



I'm not saying it's victimless, I'm saying non-violent. 

Maybe I did miss your point... let's say I am a heroin addict and aside from my illegal use of heroin, I am a law abiding citizen, all my bills are paid, etc. So, I'm not stealing to support my habit, or getting violent or committing any other crimes whatsoever. In what way are you specifying that my choice of using heroin effects other people? Are you saying people that care about me, seeing me go down a path they don't approve of constitutes a reason for it to be illegal? Like the emotional effect on say my wife is what I'm referring to here.


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## deadlift666 (Oct 8, 2014)

No man is an island. The choices you make affect other people. You may not be committing a crime otherwise, but drug use can certainly affect those around you negatively. I clearly stated that those negative influences on other people may not be enough to warrant a substance being illegal. I am however, making the argument that you can't say that drug use doesn't affect those around you, and therefore so it should be legal. The premise of that argument is incorrect.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 8, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> I dont care who smokes as long as u let me hit it too



When you stopping by then?


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## NbleSavage (Oct 8, 2014)




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## CptFKNplanet (Oct 8, 2014)

deadlift666 said:


> No man is an island. The choices you make affect other people. You may not be committing a crime otherwise, but drug use can certainly affect those around you negatively. I clearly stated that those negative influences on other people may not be enough to warrant a substance being illegal. I am however, making the argument that you can't say that drug use doesn't affect those around you, and therefore so it should be legal. The premise of that argument is incorrect.



I'm not negating the fact that my decisions may effect others as well. I mean shit, the whole premise of life is cause and effect. However, effect and harm are two completely different things. The basis of my argument is not effect, it is harm. If my actions do not cause harm to you, your property, or infringe on your rights as a human being or as otherwise stated in The Constitution, then you have no right to put me in a cage. The basis of your argument would have the entire population in prison because every decision we make has some sort of effect on not only those close to us but people we may not even come into personal contact with... sort of like a ripple effect. Granted not all would be considered negative. All that being said though, my opinion on what should or should not be legal doesn't mean a damn thing. SO, we can agree to disagree.


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