# First Cycle



## ionutzini (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm 31 years old, 6'3'', I weigh 201 lbs with 13% body fat and  have been lifting for about 4 years now. I want to do my first cycle starting january, did some research and would appreciate some opinions. My cycle goes like this:

1-4 Dbol 20/30/30/40 mg ED
1-12 Test E 2X250 mg Monday/Thursday
1-15 HCG 2X250 IU Tuesday/Friday
1-15 Adex .5mg EOD
16-18  Clomid 100/50/50 ED


    Thanks in advance!


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## justbecool1234 (Nov 19, 2015)

Be sure to keep nolvadex on hand... just in case....


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## ionutzini (Nov 19, 2015)

Is Nolva required if I already have Clomid? I thought they're both SERMs and are doing pretty much the same thing


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## John Ziegler (Nov 19, 2015)

500mg/wk Test E (pin 250mg every 3.5 days) for 13 weeks - Sunday morning & Wednesday night
.25mg Arimidex EOD for 13 weeks
250iu pf hCG every 3.5 days (pin at same time as Test) for 13 weeks - Sunday morning & Wednesday night bumped up to 1000 IU everyday for the last 10 days leading up to pct. 

Start PCT in week 15 Clomid 50/50/50/50 Nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10

Keep Raloxifene on hand in case signs of Gynecomastia appear.

For a first cycle forget about the Dbol it will make managing estradoil difficult & you will have to adjust the AI throughout those first 5 weeks or more. If you want a cycle to kick in faster run a shorter ester like propionate.

MIKE53ALI <---- :32 (18):


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 19, 2015)

ionutzini said:


> Is Nolva required if I already have Clomid? I thought they're both SERMs and are doing pretty much the same thing



Yes you still want that in pct. They don't do the same thing and you want to give yourself the best chance at recovery.

Also extend pct to 4 weeks not three.

Your hcg use should increase post cycle but pre pct. 

Week 13 shoot 250iu eod.
Week 14 shoother 500iu eod


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## testfreak91 (Nov 19, 2015)

i would include nolva and clomid as pct. i would use run test e 250 a week just to see sides because you never know everybody body is different. I would drop dbol for tbol just because its your first cycle. Way less sides and keep more gains afterwards and less water. thats my opinion just because hate to see you have a bad reaction to a compound and have no idea which one it is. Happy lifting my brother!


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## Tren4Life (Nov 19, 2015)

I don't like the adex eod. To start just take it the day after you pin the test. If you start to experience side then go to eod. 

Adex crashed me once and it sucked.


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## ToolSteel (Nov 19, 2015)

Which is why I prefer stane. If it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## mensagebr (Nov 19, 2015)

I would use only test for my first cycle. See how your body feel it. Dont go with dbol, it might get hard to control your e2.

Hugs


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## ionutzini (Nov 19, 2015)

So, trying to take into consideration all of your opinions and come up with the optimal cycle. It would look something like this:
1-10 Test E 2X250mg
1-11 HCG   2X250mg
12   HCG 250IU EOD
13   HCG 500IU EOD
!-13 Adex .5mg twice a week, the day after Test, moving to EOD in case of sides
14-17 Clomid 50/50/50/50 and Nolva 20/20/10/10

Does this look better?


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## ToolSteel (Nov 19, 2015)

Yes but 10 weeks is short imo. The more training sessions you can get in once the test has peaked the better.


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## ionutzini (Nov 19, 2015)

Yes, you're right, but I was reading a couple articles and they were recommending minimizing the time your testes are desensitized to a minimum. If you take into consideration the HCG, then your body doesn't produce on it's own for 13 weeks. If I do 12 weeks and add the HCG it would be a total of 15 weeks of the LH being shut down. Again, I'm trying to figure out what the ideal case scenario would be. I really appreciate the input


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## testfreak91 (Nov 19, 2015)

toolsteel does know his shit because he helped me out i vouch for him. 10 weeks for your 1st cycle is ideal man but he is right about getting in the training sessions once your levels have reached 100 percent but 10 weeks is fine. i would tell you try test prop for the first 2 weeks (1 vial) then test e the rest because thats what i will be doing in my next cycle in a couple weeks to help get things started faster brother


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## John Ziegler (Nov 19, 2015)

ionutzini said:


> Yes, you're right, but I was reading a couple articles and they were recommending minimizing the time your testes are desensitized to a minimum. If you take into consideration the HCG, then your body doesn't produce on it's own for 13 weeks. If I do 12 weeks and add the HCG it would be a total of 15 weeks of the LH being shut down. Again, I'm trying to figure out what the ideal case scenario would be. I really appreciate the input



Have you already got the test e ? 

You  can run a shorter cycle with a shorter ester like propionate.

For your first cycle that test e cycle you put together is looking great I would go with that for 14 weeks instead of 10. 

What BrotherTool said makes sense. "The more training sessions you can get in once the test has peaked the better".


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## ToolSteel (Nov 19, 2015)

Holy shit z and I agree on something. Mark this day down. 

The oral kicker and/or short ester kicker people commonly use for a first cycle is simply because we're impatient by nature. I did not use any sort of kicker my first time and the results were still phenominal. It takes patience. IMO not using a kicker worked well for me. It gave me time to gradually ramp up my training as I felt the increased recovery rate and other factors slowly building.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 19, 2015)

ionutzini said:


> Yes, you're right, but I was reading a couple articles and they were recommending minimizing the time your testes are desensitized to a minimum. If you take into consideration the HCG, then your body doesn't produce on it's own for 13 weeks. If I do 12 weeks and add the HCG it would be a total of 15 weeks of the LH being shut down. Again, I'm trying to figure out what the ideal case scenario would be. I really appreciate the input



The ideal scenario for your hpta would be not using at all.

Will 2 weeks make a difference? Is there research on this? No not really. Because we are all different.

But we do know 10 weeks is a waste. 12 to 14.


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## gymrat827 (Nov 19, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> The ideal scenario for your hpta would be not using at all.
> 
> Will 2 weeks make a difference? Is there research on this? No not really. Because we are all different.
> 
> But we do know 10 weeks is a waste. *12 to 14*.



pick between that.....12/13/14wks.  10 isnt long enough for the tes to really get going.


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## ionutzini (Nov 19, 2015)

Okay, so it seems most of you agree that 12 weeks is the best option. I will stick to Test E for now because, being my first cycle, I don't want to pin myself more than 4 times a week (twice for the Test and twice for the HCG). So my cycle looks like this now:

1-12 Test E 2X250mg
1-13 HCG 2X250IU
14 HCG 250IU EOD
15 HCG 500IU EOD
1-15 Adex .5mg twice a week, the day after Test, moving to EOD in case of sides
16-19 Clomid 50/50/50/50 and Nolva 20/20/10/10

P.S.: Considering it takes the Test a few weeks to kick in, can I start HCG from week 3, or should I just start like I planned from week 1?

P.S. 2: Zeigler was suggesting keeping Raloxifene on hand, in case of gyno. Do I need that, even with the adex?


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## ToolSteel (Nov 19, 2015)

Do you already have adex


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## Popeye (Nov 19, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> The ideal scenario for your hpta would be not using at all.
> 
> Will 2 weeks make a difference? Is there research on this? No not really. Because we are all different.
> 
> But we do know 10 weeks is a waste. 12 to 14.


Im glad you beat me to it...I started typing a response a couple hours ago but, had something to take care of. . this is much nicer than what I had to say.


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## ionutzini (Nov 19, 2015)

I don't have anything right now. I placed a small order for some adex and clomid, just to test the source.I'm waiting on that package to arrive and then, after I've got everything sorted out and I know exactly how my cycle is going to look, I will order everything


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## Popeye (Nov 19, 2015)

No you don't need Raloxifene "on hand"


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## Popeye (Nov 19, 2015)

It's a simple test cycle. Your very first one, how special...sooooo, Let's keep it at that. 

A Dbol kick will brutally fvck with a newbies estrogen

Ingredients for 6'3, 200 lb? new guy...

MINimum 12 week Test E
Adex...as needed
HCG
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20

That's it! 

Don't forget to check your desensitized nutz, I assume you'll be getting bloodwork done....before, during and after, to keep up on that worry. Let us know if you need help with the results.


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## ionutzini (Nov 19, 2015)

Popeye said:


> It's a simple test cycle. Your very first one, how special...sooooo, Let's keep it at that.
> 
> A Dbol kick will brutally fvck with a newbies estrogen
> 
> ...



I like you Popeye, you seem like a funny guy. I will do bloodwork before, at week 6-7 and after PCT and will post the results. Thanks for the help


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## ToolSteel (Nov 19, 2015)

Reason I asked is I would recommend stane over adex esp for a rookie. Less likely to crash and easier to manage.


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## Popeye (Nov 19, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> Reason I asked is I would recommend stane over adex esp for a rookie. Less likely to crash and easier to manage.



This is somewhat true for me...I have crashed a bit on adex. 

The problem I had then, was finding a good source, research chems are shit because stane doesn't hold well in liquid, (I believe?). I quickly got some decent adex and crashed hard on it.

I never had good results with stane, but, I have also heard good shit about it...IF you get legit stane.

OP...it's not a bad idea to have stane and adex on hand, to see which works better...adex does have a tendency to make your joints hurt if you use it too much. Blood work will show whats working, and, efficacy of use.

Use whichever SPARINGLY.


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## ToolSteel (Nov 19, 2015)

There's definitely a huge difference between research chem and pharma grade. 
Right now I'm on almost twice the test and less than half the stane as last cycle, and e2 is almost identical. Only difference is I switched from research to pharma from adc.


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## ionutzini (Nov 20, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> Reason I asked is I would recommend stane over adex esp for a rookie. Less likely to crash and easier to manage.



I'll look into stane and see if I get get my hands on some. Thanks!


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## justbecool1234 (Nov 20, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> Reason I asked is I would recommend stane over adex esp for a rookie. Less likely to crash and easier to manage.


Whats you most common way to dose the stane?  Ive got these lil 25mg triangular pills that I either third or quarter and take a lil piece everyday... so my dose is 6.25mg to 8.33mg.  I want to keep levels constant as stane has a halflife of 20 some odd hours... what do you think?


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## Popeye (Nov 20, 2015)

For a standard test cycle, the best way to keep stable levels would be to split it in 4s and take 6.25mg daily...although a triangle sounds kinda difficult to split evenly into 4s.

A lot of guys just take 12.5mg EOD


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## ionutzini (Nov 20, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> There's definitely a huge difference between research chem and pharma grade.
> Right now I'm on almost twice the test and less than half the stane as last cycle, and e2 is almost identical. Only difference is I switched from research to pharma from adc.





Popeye said:


> For a standard test cycle, the best way to keep stable levels would be to split it in 4s and take 6.25mg daily...although a triangle sounds kinda difficult to split evenly into 4s.
> 
> A lot of guys just take 12.5mg EOD



Looks like I can get Aromasin too. Do you think I would be better off taking a third or half a pill the day after my test shot, instead of the adex?


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## ToolSteel (Nov 20, 2015)

If you get stane you would be best off taking 12.5mg eod and getting bloods done a few weeks in. That's the ONLY way to know. Everyone is different.


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## ionutzini (Nov 20, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> If you get stane you would be best off taking 12.5mg eod and getting bloods done a few weeks in. That's the ONLY way to know. Everyone is different.



That makes sense. Okay, I'll use that as a starting point and adjust, in needed, after blood works. Thanks again for the help!


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