# Deca vs. Primo



## Mdwstrn (Apr 1, 2022)

Gearing up, quite literally 😄, to start another cycle…

I’ve done 400 mg of Deca in previous cycles and learned the importance of managing prolactin levels. I’ve recently read that primo and Deca can be somewhat similar as far as benefits. I’ve ran one cycle of primo before at 600 mg; didn’t notice any sides but also not great results either (I could have had a bad source I presume). 

For this next cycle, I’d like to increase some dosages and if I could substitute primo for deca I’d have one less thing to manage (prolactin).

Thoughts? Is Primo’s and Deca’s benefits similar? 

TIA


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## SFGiants (Apr 1, 2022)

Waiting for @Intel.imperitive to fuck this thread up! 🍿


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## Mdwstrn (Apr 1, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> Waiting for @Intel.imperitive to fuck this thread up! 🍿


Go for it. I’m here to learn. Give me all your wisdom lol


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## iGone (Apr 1, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Go for it. I’m here to learn. Give me all your wisdom lol


No he's our resident retard. Has good intentions but doesn't know when to shut the fuck up and let more experienced people take over. 
Like I'm going to do right now. 
I don't have any direct experience with Deca or primo. 
Just don't listen to Intel.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 1, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Gearing up, quite literally 😄, to start another cycle…
> 
> I’ve done 400 mg of Deca in previous cycles and learned the importance of managing prolactin levels. I’ve recently read that primo and Deca can be somewhat similar as far as benefits. I’ve ran one cycle of primo before at 600 mg; didn’t notice any sides but also not great results either (I could have had a bad source I presume).
> 
> ...


Deca and primo are no where similar in terms of benefts or results.

One is for low, but quality gains with few side effects the other for lots of wet mass with a plethora of sides. They are two totally different compounds. They accomplish totally different things. One for cutting, one for bulking. (Actually, diet is, but you get my point. You can cut on Dbol ffs). Are you trying to cut or bulk, what are your stats, do you have any bloodwork, pre/during/post cycle of you last cycle. What was you prolactin? We need all these comments to completely help you. Make an intro thread if you are new here. Tell us about your goals, training splits, diets, ect. You didn't give us a whole lot to work with. My biggest regret was not having Pre-cycle bloodwork and not making an intro thread.

Primo reduces estrogen (appearently, a strong appearently) while deca aromatises at 20% the rate of testosterone and causes high prolactin and can cause depression in some people.

The reason Primobolan is so expensive is because it's such a great compound interns of side effects, same with Anavar and HGH. Deca on the other hand Is one of the cheapest other than test on a serving by serving basis. It's not actually due to production costs, I presume they are no greater than other compounds. In fact, I know of a source selling 12ius of tested HGH for $55. If you plan on cutting with low side effects, why not include 2-4ius of HGH?

Also, what lab was your primo, we can see if we know that source and give you our opinions. While Primobolan is often faked, it's not a great mass builder so it's no surprise you didn't feel you gained so much, espeacially after a Deca cycle.

If you're looking for a Deca alternative with low side effects, consider Test, Tbol or DHB. If you're looking for a primo alternative, look at Anavar, Equipoise, HGH (does not add a whole lot but can burn some fat) and again DHB. DHB is a great compound, haven't tried it but I've heard amazing reviews. It's @RiR0 fav compound (I believe, and he's basically a vet). DHB is in the middle of Deca and Primo, but Test is a better midpoint.

I have experience with DNP/NPP/Tbol/Test and methylTren. I'm just a noob on the forum, so take my advice with a grain of salt. @SFGiants, please give me unbiased feedback on this post. I feel like I'm on point. This is a learning curve for everyone, and this process we are about to go through maximises the learning curve, learning what's right and wrong, with the reasons, everyone can have input and contribute to the forum. Please just have some understanding guys, this is the best way if the appropriate vets are present to correct and I always tell them I'm a noob.

Thank you in advance, - Intel.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 1, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Go for it. I’m here to learn. Give me all your wisdom lol


I did bro, tell me what you think. (If you were talking to me). It doesn't hurt to hear even from a fellow (I'm assuming, sorry if I'm wrong) noob. Everyone learns this way. The guys here like to give me a lot of trouble, my advice has been rated "sketchy" to be honest. A grey area. But take what you please, remember this is the internet and anyone can make posts!


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Deca and primo are no where similar in terms of benefts or results.
> 
> One is for low, but quality gains with few side effects the other for lots of wet mass with a plethora of sides. They are two totally different compounds. They accomplish totally different things. One for cutting, one for bulking. (Actually, diet is, but you get my point. You can cut on Dbol ffs). Are you trying to cut or bulk, what are your stats, do you have any bloodwork, pre/during/post cycle of you last cycle. What was you prolactin? We need all these comments to completely help you. Make an intro thread if you are new here. Tell us about your goals, training splits, diets, ect. You didn't give us a whole lot to work with. My biggest regret was not having Pre-cycle bloodwork and not making an intro thread.
> 
> ...


*SHUT*

*THE

FUCK*

*UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> *SHUT*
> 
> *THE
> 
> ...


Shut the fuck up and actually contribute by telling me what was wrong other than "you're skinny" or "you don't know anything".


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## CJ (Apr 2, 2022)

I'll take one serving of Deca please!!!  🤣🤣🤣


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## Yano (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> The guys here like to give me a lot of trouble, my advice has been rated "sketchy" to be honest. A grey area.


This ... THIS , is the most accurate and fact filled post you have ever made.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Shut the fuck up and actually contribute by telling me what was wrong other than "you're skinny" or "you don't know anything".


You regurgitated a lot of broscience. 

Some of what you wrote is ok. Some is flat out bullshit false. 

I’ll pick thru it and show you what you fucked up on.


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## SFGiants (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> *SHUT*
> 
> *THE
> 
> ...



Google is a horrible tool sometimes.

I don't like compounds being slotted as bulk or cut, that in the kitchen no matter what your on.

Example, tren is cut only is bullshit as well as Mast is only for the extreme lean lol.

I bet you know as well as I some like to cut on anadrol, even prep on it, but guys like this will staple it as a bulking!

I'm getting tire of it, it can get dangerous to a new person, keep on his ass and all as clowns brother!

We need to go back to old school ways!


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You regurgitated a lot of broscience.
> 
> Some of what you wrote is ok. Some is flat out bullshit false.
> 
> I’ll pick thru it and show you what you fucked up on.


Go on then


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## snake (Apr 2, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> Google is a horrible tool sometimes.
> 
> I don't like compounds being slotted as bulk or cut, that in the kitchen no matter what your on.
> 
> ...


There maybe a personal Bro study done on Deca and still being cut coming in about 18 weeks. lol

Stay toned!


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## shackleford (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> *SHUT*
> 
> *THE
> 
> ...


Mr Kruger has entered the chat


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> Google is a horrible tool sometimes.
> 
> I don't like compounds being slotted as bulk or cut, that in the kitchen no matter what your on.
> 
> ...


You and I are on the same page. If a new guy wanted broscience he could google pRiMo vS dEcA and read without any context. If a new guy wants “experience” he asks on the forum. Some retards like to jump the gun and I guess demonstrate that they know how to use google.


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## Yano (Apr 2, 2022)

shackleford said:


> Mr Kruger has entered the chat


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## shackleford (Apr 2, 2022)

Yano said:


> View attachment 20224


That valley of despair, I have been there.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I have experience with DNP/NPP/Tbol/Test and methylTren. I'm just a noob on the forum, so take my advice with a grain of salt.


When did you run mTren?
Was it oral or injectable?
What dose and how frequent did you take it?
How long did you run it?
What did it do for you?

Let’s hear @Intel.imperitive

Edit: did you use your NPP for a bulk or a cut?


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

I'm going through the valley of despair.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I'm going through the valley of despair.


You are dragging us all with you.


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## SFGiants (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> When did you run mTren?
> Was it oral or injectable?
> What dose and how frequent did you take it?
> How long did you run it?
> ...



He used it to get UNDER 100lbs!


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## Adrenolin (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> When did you run mTren?
> Was it oral or injectable?
> What dose and how frequent did you take it?
> How long did you run it?
> What did it do for you?


Probably some Naps/Geneza bullshit 🤣


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> When did you run mTren?
> Was it oral or injectable?
> What dose and how frequent did you take it?
> How long did you run it?
> ...


I only ran injectable Mtren on 3-4 occasions. It was from Southern Ghost 2mg/ml, used it to crash parties with baseball bats once with a few mates once. (They brutally attacked a friend in broad daylight with weapons, he needed to go hospital. I was 50m away, dropped my bag, suit jacket, (I wear a 3-peice suit to college) ran up and punched the biggest of the 4 before running off. Everyone else ran off from the begining). I used it for strength and aggressiveness. It was insane in terms of strength and aggression. I took 1ml each time. Used it in the gym got really veiny and vascular with insane "pumps" I think you call them. This was when I was 18. I know I should have used it everyday for a month but fuck it.

I recompositioned on NPP. I'll post my recomp and a pic of the day I was on Mtren. I look nothing like these pics now, I've taken a step back. I've posted them on some thread idk which one.

I ran Tbol/NPP/Test at 40/300/400 and DNP at 400mg and two cycles of it for 21 days. Successful recomp for a few months no? 

Picture in the white shirt was on Mtren, I think you can see my bicep vein, it looked much better in person though. Not like you can tell what's in my blood through a picture, but whatever.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I only ran injectable Mtren on 3-4 occasions. It was from Southern Ghost 2mg/ml, used it to crash parties with baseball bats once with a few mates once. (They brutally attacked a friend in broad daylight with weapons, he needed to go hospital. I was 50m away, dropped my bag, suit jacket, (I wear a 3-peice suit to college) ran up and punched the biggest of the 4 before running off. Everyone else ran off from the begining). I used it for strength and aggressiveness. It was insane in terms of strength and aggression. I took 1ml each time. Used it in the gym got really veiny and vascular with insane "pumps" I think you call them. This was when I was 18. I know I should have used it everyday for a month but fuck it.
> 
> I recompositioned on NPP. I'll post my recomp and a pic of the day I was on Mtren. I look nothing like these pics now, I've taken a step back. I've posted them on some thread idk which one.
> 
> I ran Tbol/NPP/Test at 40/300/400 and DNP at 400mg and two cycles of it for 21 days.


You’re a retard

mTren doesn’t work that way at all. You placebo’d the fuck outta it. I fucking hate guys that believe steroids caused them to act like little douchy assholes. 

I’m convinced you are a total troll now. I’d put you on ignore but then who’s gonna warm people and I’m not going to let you fuck up this great forum.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You’re a retard
> 
> mTren doesn’t work that way at all. You placebo’d the fuck outta it. I fucking hate guys that believe steroids caused them to act like little douchy assholes.
> 
> I’m convinced you are a total troll now. I’d put you on ignore but then who’s gonna warm people and I’m not going to let you fuck up this great forum.


I'm not blaming steroids for my actions lol, do the steroids inject themselves?!?! Anything short of that and it's your own fault you messed up. I heard MMA fighters take halo to get aggressive by Dylan Gimelli, I know I'm a noob.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I'm not blaming steroids for my actions lol, do the steroids inject themselves?!?! Anything short of that and it's your own fault you messed up. I heard MMA fighters take halo to get aggressive by Dylan Gimelli, I know I'm a noob.



*TROLL*


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## shackleford (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I only ran injectable Mtren on 3-4 occasions. It was from Southern Ghost 2mg/ml, used it to crash parties with baseball bats once with a few mates once. (They brutally attacked a friend in broad daylight with weapons, he needed to go hospital. I was 50m away, dropped my bag, suit jacket, (I wear a 3-peice suit to college) ran up and punched the biggest of the 4 before running off. Everyone else ran off from the begining). I used it for strength and aggressiveness. It was insane in terms of strength and aggression. I took 1ml each time. Used it in the gym got really veiny and vascular with insane "pumps" I think you call them. This was when I was 18. I know I should have used it everyday for a month but fuck it.
> 
> I recompositioned on NPP. I'll post my recomp and a pic of the day I was on Mtren. I look nothing like these pics now, I've taken a step back. I've posted them on some thread idk which one.
> 
> ...


instead of spending time here, you should be volunteering in a soup kitchen or something. you know, working on those character references to offset the douchebaggery you've been charged with.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> *TROLL*


*MEAN PERSON. *


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

shackleford said:


> instead of spending time here, you should be volunteering in a soup kitchen or something. you know, working on those character references to offset the douchebaggery you've been charged with.


Plan on joining the army reserves in a September.


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## shackleford (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Plan on joining the army reserves in a September.


good luck with a mental plea


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

shackleford said:


> good luck with a mental plea


Yeah they ordered a psychiatric assessment. Probably won't let me walk away free, and shouldn't, but I'll definately get mitigating circumstances.


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## shackleford (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Yeah they ordered a psychiatric assessment. Probably won't let me walk away free, and shouldn't, but I'll definately get mitigating circumstances.


yes. court documented mental instability. thats my point. sounds like a disqualifier.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

shackleford said:


> yes. court documented mental instability. thats my point. sounds like a disqualifier.


Well, I'll apply and see how it goes!


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## Blange89 (Apr 2, 2022)

Lol ive missed you @BigBaldBeardGuy


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## Mdwstrn (Apr 2, 2022)

Wow this took a turn lol. Well @Intel.imperitive despite the info I do appreciate the intent to help.

The question still remains for anyone else that wants to chime in on Deca vs. Primo. I agree that bulk vs cut, aside from water retention, is heavily based on the diet. 

From what I understand, primo has more sustainable gains post cycle?


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## Rockroid (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Well, I'll apply and see how it goes!


Who does #2 work for???


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## Rockroid (Apr 2, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Wow this took a turn lol. Well @Intel.imperitive despite the info I do appreciate the intent to help.
> 
> The question still remains for anyone else that wants to chime in on Deca vs. Primo. I agree that bulk vs cut, aside from water retention, is heavily based on the diet.
> 
> From what I understand, primo has more sustainable gains post cycle?


Have yout thought about NPP instead of deca? Just curious is all.


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## Rockroid (Apr 2, 2022)

Are you blasting and cruising, Or pcting?


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## Mdwstrn (Apr 2, 2022)

@Rockroid i have not. I have the most experience with deca so had planned to run it until I was urged to consider primo. Blasting and cruising.


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Gearing up, quite literally 😄, to start another cycle…
> 
> I’ve done 400 mg of Deca in previous cycles and learned the importance of managing prolactin levels. I’ve recently read that primo and Deca can be somewhat similar as far as benefits. I’ve ran one cycle of primo before at 600 mg; didn’t notice any sides but also not great results either (I could have had a bad source I presume).
> 
> ...


Primo is real weak, deca is just a little better. I didn't like deca until I got to about a gram per week and then it's amazing.


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

Yano said:


> View attachment 20224


Post of the century


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## Mdwstrn (Apr 2, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Primo is real weak, deca is just a little better. I didn't like deca until I got to about a gram per week and then it's amazing.


Good insight! Any sides with the gram per week? What kind of prolactin management were you doing? Caber or Prami? Doses?


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Good insight! Any sides with the gram per week? What kind of prolactin management were you doing? Caber or Prami? Doses?


Sides well keep in mind I'm also on quite a bit higher test, I pin 500/300 (test e/deca) eod sometimes Ed depending how I feel. I am rotating orals. I also take 12.5mg aromasin Ed just to keep libido up as I'm a moderately high converter. I am using .5mg caber once jn a while, not quite every 7 days but somewhere in that area.

Sides are only mental, a bit of anxiety and restlessness and I'm hot all the time. My temper and general temperament lately has been aggressive and I am quick to get angry. After a days training however I am totally docile and complacent.

I am seeing changes physically most lifters dream but never get close to. Took me a long time to nail the cycle down correctly. I'm also running 5ius GH daily with humalog with most of my big meals. It all works together, everything i put in my body has a job to do and plays a role in the whole.

Look I'll cut to the chase here, how much of a drug to use depends on your goals and experience. That said, you and I and the community have been lied to for years by so called experts and pro bodybuilders. Progressively higher dosages are a natural thjng for a bodybuilder, if 500mgs test works he will try 750 and if that is better he will try 1000 and so on. Nasser has stated in his own words and the call was recorded I have heard it that he at his peak was running 5 grams of test per week with about 18 units of GH. He doesn't mention the rest of his stack but it was I'm sure a lot more. 

The bottom line is that use what you need no more no less. If you want to compete, and you are afraid of high dosages, I don't know what to tell you. You won't get very far I am sure of that. I used to be scared and anti steroid but over time my love of the sport has pushed me further and further down the rabbit hole.


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## Mdwstrn (Apr 2, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Sides well keep in mind I'm also on quite a bit higher test, I pin 500/300 (test e/deca) eod sometimes Ed depending how I feel. I am rotating orals. I also take 12.5mg aromasin Ed just to keep libido up as I'm a moderately high converter. I am using .5mg caber once jn a while, not quite every 7 days but somewhere in that area.
> 
> Sides are only mental, a bit of anxiety and restlessness and I'm hot all the time. My temper and general temperament lately has been aggressive and I am quick to get angry. After a days training however I am totally docile and complacent.
> 
> ...


@Methyl mike Damn man, you’re up there for sure! I respect that; I’m climbing but not there yet. I’m right there with you seeing that BB is progressive when it comes to PEDs. I’ve played with the idea of competing but haven’t decided. Getting up in my mid 30s. I’m worried it might take the fun out of the sport and become more of a stresser. I love putting in the work and seeing my physique improve over the years.

My next blast I’m contemplating:
- 750 Test E
- 500 Deca
- 4 IU GH
- 100 Adrol (beginning)
- 50 winny (end)

I too am a high converter, which is why I was curious what ancillaries you had to take with those dosages


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## Rockroid (Apr 2, 2022)

Tisyi said:


> Extremely satisfied! Great Experience! Thanks to yourmuscleshop!. AROMASIN (EXEMESTANE) - 25MG / PER TAB – NATCO PHARMA


Stfu retard


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> @Methyl mike Damn man, you’re up there for sure! I respect that; I’m climbing but not there yet. I’m right there with you seeing that BB is progressive when it comes to PEDs. I’ve played with the idea of competing but haven’t decided. Getting up in my mid 30s. I’m worried it might take the fun out of the sport and become more of a stresser. I love putting in the work and seeing my physique improve over the years.
> 
> My next blast I’m contemplating:
> - 750 Test E
> ...


Push test to 1g keep deca at 500 rotate drol to dbol back to drol every 2 to 3 weeks idk about winstrol never tried it.  Use some insulin you will not regret jt. My advice.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

Rockroid said:


> Who does #2 work for???


Who the hell is #2


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> @Methyl mike Damn man, you’re up there for sure! I respect that; I’m climbing but not there yet. I’m right there with you seeing that BB is progressive when it comes to PEDs. I’ve played with the idea of competing but haven’t decided. Getting up in my mid 30s. I’m worried it might take the fun out of the sport and become more of a stresser. I love putting in the work and seeing my physique improve over the years.
> 
> My next blast I’m contemplating:
> - 750 Test E
> ...


I need to tell u something you need to approach this AAS game like an open book. Do not be Ridgid. Pay attention to what your body is telling you and make adjustments based on what you see and feel. Be willing to try new thjngs and brace new ideas if they make sense. 

For example I never really used deca until recently. I'd run a little here or there never thought much of it. But a member here @RiR0  recommended I try it and at a higher dose and after some research I decided he was credible so I took his advice. I've never been so happy in my life! Food for thought.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Sides well keep in mind I'm also on quite a bit higher test, I pin 500/300 (test e/deca) eod sometimes Ed depending how I feel. I am rotating orals. I also take 12.5mg aromasin Ed just to keep libido up as I'm a moderately high converter. I am using .5mg caber once jn a while, not quite every 7 days but somewhere in that area.
> 
> Sides are only mental, a bit of anxiety and restlessness and I'm hot all the time. My temper and general temperament lately has been aggressive and I am quick to get angry. After a days training however I am totally docile and complacent.
> 
> ...


Have you gotten any bloodwork recently?


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Picture in the white shirt was on Mtren, I think you can see my bicep vein, it looked much better in person though. Not like you can tell what's in my blood through a picture, but whatever.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 2, 2022)

JuiceTrain said:


> View attachment 20242


Is it just me or does that dog look slightly asthetic in a niche way...


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## CJ (Apr 2, 2022)

Everyone's favorite post... 

Can you guess my bf%? 


JuiceTrain said:


> View attachment 20242


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 2, 2022)

CJ said:


> Everyone's favorite post...
> 
> Can you guess my bf%?



Bruh 🤣🤣🤣No!!! 😆😆
Keep that guy outta here hahaha


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Have you gotten any bloodwork recently?


Working on it. I saw some idiot who claimed to be a doctor in January requested bloods and some other referrals and nothing happened. I filed a grievance a week ago and one referral came in the mail so I'm expecting the rest soon. I'm doing what I can without private insurance.


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> I only ran injectable Mtren on 3-4 occasions. It was from Southern Ghost 2mg/ml, used it to crash parties with baseball bats once with a few mates once. (They brutally attacked a friend in broad daylight with weapons, he needed to go hospital. I was 50m away, dropped my bag, suit jacket, (I wear a 3-peice suit to college) ran up and punched the biggest of the 4 before running off. Everyone else ran off from the begining). I used it for strength and aggressiveness. It was insane in terms of strength and aggression. I took 1ml each time. Used it in the gym got really veiny and vascular with insane "pumps" I think you call them. This was when I was 18. I know I should have used it everyday for a month but fuck it.
> 
> I recompositioned on NPP. I'll post my recomp and a pic of the day I was on Mtren. I look nothing like these pics now, I've taken a step back. I've posted them on some thread idk which one.
> 
> ...


Oh my Lord, you need to stop taking any and all performance enhancing anythings and stick with a solid diet and training program for a while. I can tell you don't know how to eat, it's not so simple until you get a routine.


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## Methyl mike (Apr 2, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Wow this took a turn lol. Well @Intel.imperitive despite the info I do appreciate the intent to help.
> 
> The question still remains for anyone else that wants to chime in on Deca vs. Primo. I agree that bulk vs cut, aside from water retention, is heavily based on the diet.
> 
> From what I understand, primo has more sustainable gains post cycle?


I would not say that by any means. You stand to gain more muscle with deca (comparatively dosed) in the first place. 

A guy on meso I went to for advice told me primo was used back in the day to achieve the GH look before GH. Having run it at 600mgs a week I would agree. 

But now we have GH and dont really need it anymore, I think time has proven deca is better in most situations. 

What compounds the issue is that primo has some kind of estrogen inhibiting property and when I ran it my estrogen absolutely crashed. I was on test 750 primo 600 tren 75mgs eod hmm maybe anavar and eq but the eq I swapped out for primo. 

Anyway I walked away from the cycle unhappy and weak and frail feeling, from 260+ down to upper 220s and I've rebuilt from there. I never pct I just stop gear cold turkey and I expected to lose a lot. 

If I had to run primo for some reason I would stick with the 2:1 ratio test/primo


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## Mdwstrn (Apr 3, 2022)

@Methyl mike Great point! I have heard about EQ and Primo both lowering E2. Never imagined it would crash E2 by itself, so thanks for that insight.

Per your suggestion to increase Test to a gram. Is that to have a 2:1 ratio with Deca or other reasoning? I love anadrol from previous cycles. This would be my first cycle adding in Winstrol. I've been told it adds a nice cut up look, kinda like a "polishing" at the end of the cycle. Figured I'd try it out and see for myself. 

Keeping my mind pretty open. I like learning the seasoned veteran knowledge that you gain from experience and not just reading a book or article, so I appreciate all this input.


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 3, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> @Methyl mike Great point! I have heard about EQ and Primo both lowering E2. Never imagined it would crash E2 by itself, so thanks for that insight.
> 
> Per your suggestion to increase Test to a gram. Is that to have a 2:1 ratio with Deca or other reasoning? I love anadrol from previous cycles. This would be my first cycle adding in Winstrol. I've been told it adds a nice cut up look, kinda like a "polishing" at the end of the cycle. Figured I'd try it out and see for myself.
> 
> Keeping my mind pretty open. I like learning the seasoned veteran knowledge that you gain from experience and not just reading a book or article, so I appreciate all this input.



The 1g of test theory basically states testosterone above a threshold will open new anabolic pathways. I've personally seen it work really well, although it's tough to say the results weren't just the 250mg jump from 750 lol. But there's a big difference in gains between the two that I've not seen at other dosage variants. So like, 500 vs 750 the results were pretty similar. But 750 to 1000 huge difference. 

Not sure about winstrol. Thats gonna be an individual thing for sure. I wouldnt only because after running anadrol for some time it's better to give your body a rest I think. Switching to winstrol idk it just seems real unhealthy. Off season you are supposed to gain while being nice to your system with the expectation that precontest you go all out and are likely causing some long term damage. If you are doing the same damage off season, you are taking unnecessary chances with your health I think.


----------



## Mdwstrn (Apr 3, 2022)

@Methyl mike This makes sense. Thanks for that input! I had the same thinking about running the two orals back to back like that. There were a few guys that mentioned they'll do that with a 4 week break inbetween, so I thought that was interesting. Thanks for the input as always


----------



## Butch_C (Apr 3, 2022)

shackleford said:


> That valley of despair, I have been there.


Hell I live there!


----------



## Blange89 (Apr 4, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> The 1g of test theory basically states testosterone above a threshold will open new anabolic pathways. I've personally seen it work really well, although it's tough to say the results weren't just the 250mg jump from 750 lol. But there's a big difference in gains between the two that I've not seen at other dosage variants. So like, 500 vs 750 the results were pretty similar. But 750 to 1000 huge difference.
> 
> Not sure about winstrol. Thats gonna be an individual thing for sure. I wouldnt only because after running anadrol for some time it's better to give your body a rest I think. Switching to winstrol idk it just seems real unhealthy. Off season you are supposed to gain while being nice to your system with the expectation that precontest you go all out and are likely causing some long term damage. If you are doing the same damage off season, you are taking unnecessary chances with your health I think.


I agree with this. I've found test at 1g really does open up and starts to act like a different compound in a good way.


----------



## JuiceTrain (Apr 4, 2022)

Blange89 said:


> I agree with this. I've found test at 1g really does open up and starts to act like a different compound in a good way.



@hulksmash put me onto 1g Test 
ProGenetics


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 4, 2022)

Deca is stronger, primo is healthier.  Pick the one that’s more in line with your goals. 

I prefer primo, personally. You can’t argue with side-effect free gains.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 4, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Deca and primo are no where similar in terms of benefts or results.
> 
> One is for low, but quality gains with few side effects the other for lots of wet mass with a plethora of sides. They are two totally different compounds. They accomplish totally different things. One for cutting, one for bulking. (Actually, diet is, but you get my point. You can cut on Dbol ffs). Are you trying to cut or bulk, what are your stats, do you have any bloodwork, pre/during/post cycle of you last cycle. What was you prolactin? We need all these comments to completely help you. Make an intro thread if you are new here. Tell us about your goals, training splits, diets, ect. You didn't give us a whole lot to work with. My biggest regret was not having Pre-cycle bloodwork and not making an intro thread.
> 
> ...





Intel.imperitive said:


> I did bro, tell me what you think. (If you were talking to me). It doesn't hurt to hear even from a fellow (I'm assuming, sorry if I'm wrong) noob. Everyone learns this way. The guys here like to give me a lot of trouble, my advice has been rated "sketchy" to be honest. A grey area. But take what you please, remember this is the internet and anyone can make posts!




I'm late 

Shut the fuck up


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Deca is stronger, primo is healthier.  Pick the one that’s more in line with your goals.
> 
> I prefer primo, personally. You can’t argue with side-effect free gains.



This
I'll see better gains off Deca
But I can run longer, feel better and perform better in the gym with Primo, with less health problems.

I feel like gym performance and food is far more important than AAS
The cardio side of Deca is a no for me these days, but i have enjoyed Nandrolone in the past.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 4, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I'm late
> 
> Shut the fuck up


----------



## Badleroybrown (Apr 4, 2022)

I love Deca!!!!!


----------



## Charger69 (Apr 4, 2022)

Blange89 said:


> I agree with this. I've found test at 1g really does open up and starts to act like a different compound in a good way.



If you aren’t taking an AI, there is a good possibility that it is the estrogen playing a major role in the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blange89 (Apr 4, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> This
> I'll see better gains off Deca
> But I can run longer, feel better and perform better in the gym with Primo, with less health problems.
> 
> ...


Lol whats up with your pic man? Lol

Also what kind of cardio sides do you get? Like tren?


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 4, 2022)

Blange89 said:


> I agree with this. I've found test at 1g really does open up and starts to act like a different compound in a good way.


In what way?


----------



## Blange89 (Apr 4, 2022)

Charger69 said:


> If you aren’t taking an AI, there is a good possibility that it is the estrogen playing a major role in the difference.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was thinking this plus more dht coversion


----------



## Blange89 (Apr 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> In what way?


Better gains simply. I feel at those dose you don't need to add an "anabolic" for growth. Possibly the benefits from more estrogen and dht. I also don't get any more bloat or sides from 1g than I do 750


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 4, 2022)

Blange89 said:


> Better gains simply. I feel at those dose you don't need to add an "anabolic" for growth. Possibly the benefits from more estrogen and dht. I also don't get any more bloat or sides from 1g than I do 750


You got better gains from taking more of the drug. It still acts the same way in the body.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 4, 2022)

I’d be quite surprised if 1g of test weren’t  more effective than 500mg.

The study on testosterone dose-dependency that I read only went to 600mg, but conclusions can be reasonably inferred from that study for doses above 600mg to a point. You’ll likely hit diminishing returns at a certain dosage or else you could just take 5g and turn into The Hulk in 12 weeks.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> or else you could just take 5g and turn into The Hulk in 12 weeks.


Challenge accepted


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Challenge accepted


I can’t see 5g of test being a good time. The actual gains would probably be fantastic, but the acne and bloat would be legendary. 

BRB taking 5mg of letro ED.


----------



## Intel.imperitive (Apr 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Challenge accepted


Wouldn't the use of high dose YK-11 come in handy here?


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Challenge accepted





Intel.imperitive said:


> Wouldn't the use of high dose YK-11 come in handy here?


Fucking el oh el.

Don’t want that myostatin robbing you of your gains.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Wouldn't the use of high dose YK-11 come in handy here?


I'm obviously not going to slam 5g of any compound 😂.

Also, myostatin is not a limiting factor unless you are already an Olympian at your genetic maximum on PEDs. Even then, there has been no evidence that myostatin inhibitors actually work in human beings.

All studies done were animal studies, mostly rats, which more often than not the results do not transfer over to human application.

There is no known safety profile for YK-11, as there were never human studies done on this compound.

TLDR; myostatin being a limiting factor is largely bullshit... unless you are at the utmost peak of genetic potential while using steroids already.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Fucking el oh el.
> 
> Don’t want that myostatin robbing you of your gains.


He hit my trigger button with the SARM touted as a myostatin inhibitor... but I'm trying to be nice and provide a real explanation. 😂


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 4, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Wouldn't the use of high dose YK-11 come in handy here?


@Send0 was this a pre-approved and “coached” comment?


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> @Send0 was this a pre-approved and “coached” comment?


The mentoring hit a snag.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 4, 2022)

Blange89 said:


> Lol whats up with your pic man? Lol
> 
> Also what kind of cardio sides do you get? Like tren?



Just trolling Send0 lol
Another thread got heated between Send and BBBG and I'm just being annoying to everyone as per usual by being a passive aggresive child

I dont get any sides from Deca but Nandrolone is not good for the heart by any stretch in general

Neither are any AAS, but at least I'll stick to Test, which is by far the safest and all around King of gear

I've also had a heart attack, so hard pass


Intel.imperitive said:


> Wouldn't the use of high dose YK-11 come in handy here?



@Send0 

That's banworthy bro


----------



## Thebiggestdumbass (Apr 4, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Wouldn't the use of high dose YK-11 come in handy here?


I ran YK-11 for a few weeks and was super impressed with the strength and mental "feel good" it gave. Now that I'm running dbol i realize i wasn't taking YK-11


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> @Send0 was this a pre-approved and “coached” comment?


It was not, but I did tell him to ask more questions and to not give advice/guidance without first pm'ing me so I can teach him why his proposed advice/guidance is right or wrong before he even posts it.

So he asked a question, which is exactly in line with what I asked him to do more of.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> The mentoring hit a snag.


It did not hit a snag... he asked questions like I told him should be his focus. He had no idea that myostatin is a trigger topic for me, my own annoyances are legitimately not his fault 😂.

I'm just glad he put forth the question like I asked, instead of offering it as a piece of advice.



> @Send0
> 
> That's banworthy bro



If asking questions, no matter how dumb they may seem, were ban worthy then we'd have to just shut the entire forum down.

Only way to learn is to ask questions and absorb the answers


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 4, 2022)

Wouldn’t the use of high dose crystal meth come in handy here?

Wouldn’t the use of carrots for beta carotin come in handy here?

Wouldn’t a yellow BMW come in handy here?

WOULD’T A ROPE WITH A NOOSE COME IN HANDY HERE?


----------



## Intel.imperitive (Apr 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Wouldn’t the use of high dose crystal meth come in handy here?
> 
> Wouldn’t the use of carrots for beta carotin come in handy here?
> 
> ...


Meanie.


----------



## JuiceTrain (Apr 4, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Meanie.



He pulled a Nissan 😂😂


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Wouldn’t the use of high dose crystal meth come in handy here?
> 
> Wouldn’t the use of carrots for beta carotin come in handy here?
> 
> ...


He made one post asking a question. Don't start trolling threads because you don't like someone. 

You know this isn't the right way to do things.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> You know this isn't the right way to do things.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> It did not hit a snag... he asked questions like I told him should be his focus. He had no idea that myostatin is a trigger topic for me, my own annoyances are legitimately not his fault 😂.
> 
> I'm just glad he put forth the question like I asked, instead of offering it as a piece of advice.
> 
> ...


Just a joke Send
Based off the aforementioned trigger warning lol

I stopped following that thread with anything off a while ago and I dont particularly care if Intel comes or goes.
Juat that he never gives advice to anyone, which the UG will fucking ensure of
I know I will make sure of him never giving advice without being called a fucking idiot.

You know we are cuddle besties and I dont mind being little spoon.

But I'm keeping the Avatar until I'm bored of it, because it makes me laugh whenever I look at it.



BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Wouldn’t the use of high dose crystal meth come in handy here?
> 
> Wouldn’t the use of carrots for beta carotin come in handy here?
> 
> ...



1. I literally picture you as a large and jacked Walter white, so yes
We gotta Cook Mr. Whyte

2. Dis you know that carrots being good for your eyes is in fact a lie and an intelligence coverup from the U.K, 
The Germans didnt know Radar was a thing, and the U.K government released documents stating that their pilots could see the germans MUCH better because of the benefits of carrots, and they fed them a lot
They did this to disguise the fact that the RAF already knew where Germans were due to Radar, but couldnt reveal it, hence the Counter intelligence lie
Food for thought. (Literally, lol)

3. If you have a yellow BMW, you're an asshole, no exceptions.

4. Hello Darkness my old friend.




Send0 said:


> He made one post asking a question. Don't start trolling threads because you don't like someone.
> 
> You know this isn't the right way to do things.



I try to stop trolling, but its fucking hard


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> He made one post asking a question. Don't start trolling threads because you don't like someone.
> 
> You know this isn't the right way to do things.



Sorry. I guess I see that is wrong. I’ll do better. 



Intel.imperitive said:


> Wouldn't the use of high dose YK-11 come in handy here?


No.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Sorry. I guess I see that is wrong. I’ll do better.
> 
> 
> No.


For the record, please keep smacking people when they do stupid shit too_ (not that you needed me to tell you this 😂)._

I really am trying to work with him, so I give him *some* credit for asking about YK-11 and resisting the urge to just tell people to take it without really understanding anything about it at all.

You be bad cop, I'll be kind of/sort of good cop _(in truth I'm corrupt AF, and open to being bribed 😍)_


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 4, 2022)

Send0 said:


> For the record, please keep smacking people when they do stupid shit too_ (not that you needed me to tell you this 😂)._
> 
> I really am trying to work with him, so I give him *some* credit for asking about YK-11 and resisting the urge to just tell people without really understanding anything about it at all.
> 
> You be bad cop, I'll be kind of/sort of good cop _(in truth I'm corrupt AF, and open to being bribed 😍)_


Alright that’s fine. But you’re wearing the Ray Bans and growing the mustache. I refuse to do the mustache thing. I’m more qualified to be like Kojack (that was before my time I just googled “bald cop” and it was him or a variety of fat cops).


----------



## Send0 (Apr 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Alright that’s fine. But you’re wearing the Ray Bans and growing the mustache. I refuse to do the mustache thing. I’m more qualified to be like Kojack (that was before my time I just googled “bald cop” and it was him or a variety of fat cops).


Is a fake mustache acceptable? My facial hair grows in shitty as hell. I clip it down to stubble so it at least looks like I could grow one, even though I can't 😂


----------



## shackleford (Apr 5, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Is a fake mustache acceptable? My facial hair grows in shitty as hell. I clip it down to stubble so it at least looks like I could grow one, even though I can't 😂


mine grows in shitty too. give it a few months and you'll have a badass stache. just takes some time to fill out. Then the guys talking shit will secretly start telling you they wish they could grow one too.


----------



## Mdwstrn (Apr 5, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Is a fake mustache acceptable? My facial hair grows in shitty as hell. I clip it down to stubble so it at least looks like I could grow one, even though I can't 😂


No joke, have you tried using minoxidil foam? I've never been able to grow a full beard until I started TRT and using minoxidil twice per day. In 3 months I had a full beard!!! A buddy of mine has the same results. Here we are two years later and still going strong. 

If you haven't tried it, give it a go.


----------



## Mdwstrn (Apr 5, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> This
> I'll see better gains off Deca
> But I can run longer, feel better and perform better in the gym with Primo, with less health problems.
> 
> ...


What cardio sides did you experience with Deca? I experienced some cardio sides a couple cycles back but never thought to question whether it could be Deca induced


----------



## Tisatix (Apr 5, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> What cardio sides did you experience with Deca? I experienced some cardio sides a couple cycles back but never thought to question whether it could be Deca induced


I'd think due to the possible weight increase?


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 5, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Deca is stronger, primo is healthier.  Pick the one that’s more in line with your goals.
> 
> I prefer primo, personally. You can’t argue with side-effect free gains.


Primo hit me with some of the worst side effects of any steroid. Go figure right?


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 5, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> In what way?


You grow outward 3 dimensionally. It's hard to explain. Very different from lower dosages.


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 5, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I'm obviously not going to slam 5g of any compound 😂.
> 
> Also, myostatin is not a limiting factor unless you are already an Olympian at your genetic maximum on PEDs. Even then, there has been no evidence that myostatin inhibitors actually work in human beings.
> 
> ...


Yk-11 is utter horeshit I've tried it I am a high responder to everything and yk-11 was as effective as corn starch capsules. Maybe slightly less effective actually.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Primo hit me with some of the worst side effects of any steroid. Go figure right?


Weird. What kind of sides are we talking?


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 5, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Weird. What kind of sides are we talking?


The shit crushed my estrogen to the point I felt frail and weak. Thjs caused shoulder problems which I'm still trying to deal with. And the worst part I was suppressed for a long time recovery took months. I did not pct I was too depressed. I should have used less or used more test, and definitely not stopped cold turkey when the test I was running was sustanon. So the 750mgs a week was barely 250-300 of long esters. When I crashed I had the primo at 600 so when the fast test esters cleared the ratio was fucked it was 2/1 primo/test. I should have been more careful.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> The shit crushed my estrogen to the point I felt frail and weak. Thjs caused shoulder problems which I'm still trying to deal with. And the worst part I was suppressed for a long time recovery took months. I did not pct I was too depressed. I should have used less or used more test, and definitely not stopped cold turkey when the test I was running was sustanon. So the 750mgs a week was barely 250-300 of long esters. When I crashed I had the primo at 600 so when the fast test esters cleared the ratio was fucked it was 2/1 primo/test. I should have been more careful.


Ah OK, that makes sense. Low E2 is no fun.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> The shit crushed my estrogen to the point I felt frail and weak. Thjs caused shoulder problems which I'm still trying to deal with. And the worst part I was suppressed for a long time recovery took months. I did not pct I was too depressed. I should have used less or used more test, and definitely not stopped cold turkey when the test I was running was sustanon. So the 750mgs a week was barely 250-300 of long esters. When I crashed I had the primo at 600 so when the fast test esters cleared the ratio was fucked it was 2/1 primo/test. I should have been more careful.


Bloodwork? 

No way primo “crushed” E2. Maybe that was your feelzzz but without bloodwork that could be placebo.

This Primo bullshit started only a year ago. Never heard this before that. And it doesn’t make sense. It’s bioscience.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Bloodwork?
> 
> No way primo “crushed” E2. Maybe that was your feelzzz but without bloodwork that could be placebo.
> 
> This Primo bullshit started only a year ago. Never heard this before that. And it doesn’t make sense. It’s bioscience.


I’m running 500 test 400 primo right now and no E2 issues whatsoever.  I’d have to look but I think my E2 was 42?

Never noticed a difference, honestly.


----------



## 1bigun11 (Apr 5, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> You grow outward 3 dimensionally. It's hard to explain. Very different from lower dosages.


It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call The Twilight Zone.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I’m running 500 test 400 primo right now and no E2 issues whatsoever.  I’d have to look but I think my E2 was 42?
> 
> Never noticed a difference, honestly.


Exactly. Nobody did until the whole “primo effects E2 levels” sprouted up. Then everyone was recommending 2:1 ratios and other bullshit. That’s NOT how Primo or Masteron work. They block estrogen receptors rather than being anti-estrogenic.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Exactly. Nobody did until the whole “primo effects E2 levels” sprouted up. Then everyone was recommending 2:1 ratios and other bullshit. That’s NOT how Primo or Masteron work. They block estrogen receptors rather than being anti-estrogenic.



Just to add to that
Mast was the OG breast cancer drug
Due to its binding affinity on the estrogen receptors.
But obviously with SERMS having much better binding affinity and much better specificity thr use of Mast for breast cancer treatment wad discontinued.

Even if there was absolute zero evidence of its estrogen receptor binding literature (There is, its readily available)
We can only assume it was used for this specific purpose as a "1st Gen SERM" because.... Atomatase inhibitors exist.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Exactly. Nobody did until the whole “primo effects E2 levels” sprouted up. Then everyone was recommending 2:1 ratios and other bullshit. That’s NOT how Primo or Masteron work. They block estrogen receptors rather than being anti-estrogenic.


Yeah I don’t fully buy into the primo lowering E2 argument.

I’d like to see a lot more data to back it up because it seems to be mostly feelz reports that report low E2 symptoms from primo.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 5, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Yeah I don’t fully buy into the primo lowering E2 argument.
> 
> I’d like to see a lot more data to back it up because it seems to be mostly feelz reports that report low E2 symptoms from primo.



I've run 200mg Primo added to TRT on cruise (Fucking best cruise ever)
Had negligible chsnge in e2 
Those changes were negligible enough that diet etc could account for it.


----------



## Undecanator (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Exactly. Nobody did until the whole “primo effects E2 levels” sprouted up. Then everyone was recommending 2:1 ratios and other bullshit. That’s NOT how Primo or Masteron work. They block estrogen receptors rather than being anti-estrogenic.


Interesting, why is it that DHT derivatives can induce low e2 sides despite showing little effect on bloodwork?


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

Undecanator said:


> Interesting, why is it that DHT derivatives can induce low e2 sides despite showing little effect on bloodwork?


From what I understand, some DHTs can interfere with estrogen binding to receptors, similar to a SERM.

They don’t actually lower overall E2 but they interfere with normal uptake into the receptors.  That could possibly simulate low E2 symptoms at high enough doses. 

Just a guess.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

Undecanator said:


> Interesting, why is it that DHT derivatives can induce low e2 sides despite showing little effect on bloodwork?


what @Test_subject just said. Or it could also be placebo effect. Or people aren’t familiar with the affect of adding DHT derivatives.


----------



## Undecanator (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> what @Test_subject just said. Or it could also be placebo effect. Or people aren’t familiar with the affect of adding DHT derivatives.


I don’t think it’s placebo, I definitely noticed a difference running 250 test alone vs 250 with 600 mast. Mainly there was just an increase in aggression and anxiety, I was also always flat. Never would’ve thought it had an effect on estrogen though, very interesting. That explains the whole idea behind DHT derivatives “masking” high e2 sides.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 5, 2022)

Undecanator said:


> I don’t think it’s placebo, I definitely noticed a difference running 250 test alone vs 250 with 600 mast. Mainly there was just an increase in aggression and anxiety, I was also always flat. Never would’ve thought it had an effect on estrogen though, very interesting. That explains the whole idea behind DHT derivatives “masking” high e2 sides.


I mean,
At the end of the day, to make a claim about about a particular effect of a particular AAS needs to be backed up with evidence

IE Bloodwork

That has to be the basis for thoughts on how these compounds effect us.

Feeling "Flat" doesnt constitute a drop in e2
It just means you feel flat.


----------



## Undecanator (Apr 5, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I mean,
> At the end of the day, to make a claim about about a particular effect of a particular AAS needs to be backed up with evidence
> 
> IE Bloodwork
> ...


Oh no, I don’t think either drugs actually affect e2, but what @Test_subject said makes sense and would explain why I felt different on higher dose of mast. But you’re right, it’s all just speculation at the end of the day.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

Undecanator said:


> I don’t think it’s placebo, I definitely noticed a difference running 250 test alone vs 250 with 600 mast. Mainly there was just an increase in aggression and anxiety, I was also always flat. Never would’ve thought it had an effect on estrogen though, very interesting. That explains the whole idea behind DHT derivatives “masking” high e2 sides.


Well adding androgens that don’t aromatize will make you aggressive and increase anxiety. That essentially puts you in a constant “fight or flight” response.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Well adding androgens that don’t aromatize will make you aggressive and increase anxiety. That essentially puts you in a constant “fight or flight” response.



I can't buy that either
Androgens have never had any effect on mood, if anything, I'm more relaxed.

If it was w downright "This is what it does"
Results would be relativly typical across the board


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I can't buy that either
> Androgens have never had any effect on mood, if anything, I'm more relaxed.
> 
> If it was w downright "This is what it does"
> Results would be relativly typical across the board


Sorry, the “fight or flight” was a oversimplified explanation. It’s not a roid rage thing but the effect on the CNS. Example effect is increased heart rate which is what people associate with anxiety feeling. This one is real. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to lose your shit and go Ben Afleck.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Sorry, the “fight or flight” was a oversimplified explanation. It’s not a roid rage thing but the effect on the CNS. Example effect is increased heart rate which is what people associate with anxiety feeling. This one is real. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to lose your shit and go Ben Afleck.



Lmao Ben Affleck.

Can you get a bit more specific on the CNS effects?
Not familiar whatsoever with what yoire saying


----------



## Bro Bundy (Apr 5, 2022)

sean penn makes me lol the most..This fuck really thinks hes important


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Lmao Ben Affleck.
> 
> Can you get a bit more specific on the CNS effects?
> Not familiar whatsoever with what yoire saying


Here, get ready to take a snooze… neural links in the brain and shit. Androgens are what separate men from women and why we use to smash skulls while women and children picked berries and swept the cave. 









						Androgen Receptors, Sex Behaviour, and Aggression
					

Androgens are intricately involved in reproductive and aggressive behaviours, but the role of the androgen receptor in mediating these behaviours is less defined. Further, activity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




I can’t tell if you’re fucking with me or not. What do androgens do?


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

Bro Bundy said:


> sean penn makes me lol the most..This fuck really thinks hes important


Yea. He “just so happens to be in the Ukraine”? Really or was that pre-empted so he can put his mug on the screen. 

Sorry, I can’t ever look at him any differently than Fast Times at Ridgemont High.


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea. He “just so happens to be in the Ukraine”? Really or was that pre-empted so he can put his mug on the screen.
> 
> Sorry, I can’t ever look at him any differently than Fast Times at Ridgemont High.


Sean Penn is a complete cunt.  Everything that he does is done to feed his gigantic ego.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea. He “just so happens to be in the Ukraine”? Really or was that pre-empted so he can put his mug on the screen.
> 
> Sorry, I can’t ever look at him any differently than Fast Times at Ridgemont High.


hahahah me too fucking burnout that thinks hes important


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Here, get ready to take a snooze… neural links in the brain and shit. Androgens are what separate men from women and why we use to smash skulls while women and children picked berries and swept the cave.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol
What I'm saying is, I havnt found a single solid study/piece of literature or anecdotal evidence that Androgens/Androgenic activity (and so on and so forth) specifically has a "Flight or fight" response, on CNS or anything really with the exception of studies that include and increase of aghresive behaviour (Which does not constitute fight or flight)
Nor does elevated heart rate, that would mean cardio causes fight or flight

I'm just unsure of the correlation.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Lol
> What I'm saying is, I havnt found a single solid study/piece of literature or anecdotal evidence that Androgens/Androgenic activity (and so on and so forth) specifically has a "Flight or fight" response, on CNS or anything really with the exception of studies that include and increase of aghresive behaviour (Which does not constitute fight or flight)
> Nor does elevated heart rate, that would mean cardio causes fight or flight
> 
> I'm just unsure of the correlation.


So elevated heart rate caused by caffeine or say crack cocaine is a “cardio” effect and not CNS effect???


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So elevated heart rate caused by caffeine or say crack cocaine is a “cardio” effect and not CNS effect???



No
I'm saying elevated heart rate does not constitute "Fight or flight"


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea. He “just so happens to be in the Ukraine”? Really or was that pre-empted so he can put his mug on the screen.
> 
> Sorry, I can’t ever look at him any differently than Fast Times at Ridgemont High.





Bro Bundy said:


> hahahah me too fucking burnout that thinks hes important



I tried reading his novel a few years back just to see how bad it was.  I expected it to be terrible, but it was more pompously pretentious than I ever thought possible.

He tries so hard to rip off William S. Burroughs that it’s painful, but he’s a no-talent hack, so it reads like the cringy, uninspired prose of a purposefully edgy teenager who read too much Hunter S. Thompson in junior year. 

Fuck that guy.


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 5, 2022)

Goddamn it now you guys got me looking at studies because my curiosity is peaked.


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 5, 2022)

Im also gonna have to watch Fast times at rigemont high and mystic river now


----------



## shackleford (Apr 5, 2022)

i dont care if sean penn is playing the most bad ass character in a movie. this is all i see now, he's ruined.


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 5, 2022)

shackleford said:


> i dont care if sean penn is playing the most bad ass character in a movie. this is all i see now, he's ruined.
> 
> View attachment 20350


You never go full retard


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You never go full retard


Little known fact: Penn wasn’t acting. He was just being normal for that role.


----------



## shackleford (Apr 5, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You never go full retard


its like fucking a goat. even if it did look like alba, you're never coming back from it. Its all any one will think about when they see you.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 5, 2022)

shackleford said:


> i dont care if sean penn is playing the most bad ass character in a movie. this is all i see now, he's ruined.
> 
> View attachment 20350


Omg. Major thread derailment. I completely forgot about that movie. I watched it in my early 20s. It had me talking that same way for weeks.


----------



## shackleford (Apr 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Omg. Major thread derailment. I completely forgot about that movie. I watched it in my early 20s. It had me talking that same way for weeks.


slingblade had the same effect on me


----------



## Test_subject (Apr 5, 2022)

shackleford said:


> slingblade had the same effect on me


To this day, every time someone asks “what are you doing with X?” I say, “I aim ta kill you wid it.”

I can’t help it.


----------



## shackleford (Apr 5, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> To this day, every time someone asks “what are you doing with X?” I say, “I aim ta kill you wid it.”
> 
> I can’t help it.


at family gatherings i have the unexplainable urge to ask for biscuits and mustard.


----------



## TiredandHot (Apr 5, 2022)

See some of yall discussing primo, E2, and bloodwork. I was on 300 test and 500 primo, had bloodwork a month or so ago and e2 was 17. My bloodwork before that years ago I think was 300 test, 400 mast, and 600 primo and it was 9. I believe it affects mine, not sure if it does it the same to every other individual.


----------



## MisterSuperGod (Apr 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Bloodwork?
> 
> No way primo “crushed” E2. Maybe that was your feelzzz but without bloodwork that could be placebo.
> 
> This Primo bullshit started only a year ago. Never heard this before that. And it doesn’t make sense. It’s bioscience.



Someone posted blood work on another forum who's name i won't mention and the results would say that your assertion on this one is incorrect.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Apr 6, 2022)

primo is faked more then anything else


----------



## CJ (Apr 6, 2022)

Bro Bundy said:


> primo is faked more then anything else


2nd place is stripper's boobies


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 6, 2022)

CJ said:


> 2nd place is stripper's boobies


They’re real enough if I can touchem


----------



## CJ (Apr 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> They’re real enough if I can touchem


Hydrox are better than Oreos. Fake > Real


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 6, 2022)

CJ said:


> Hydrox are better than Oreos. Fake > Real


What are hydrox?


----------



## Adrenolin (Apr 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> They’re real enough if I can touchem


That's always been my thoughts


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 6, 2022)

CJ said:


> Hydrox are better than Oreos. Fake > Real


Nice. I’ve gotta try these


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 6, 2022)

MisterSuperGod said:


> Someone posted blood work on another forum who's name i won't mention and the results would say that your assertion on this one is incorrect.


What’s the pathway for that though? Primo or masteron don’t work like AIs. They block the estrogen receptors.

Like SilentLuluLemons stated, they were developed to treat black boob death in women. You’re gonna crash women’s estrogen? No.

That other forum is down the toilet anyways.


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> What’s the pathway for that though? Primo or masteron don’t work like AIs. They block the receptors.
> 
> Like SilentLuluLemons stated, they were developed to treat black boob death in women. You’re gonna crash women’s estrogen? No.


Masteron was created as an ai. Ais were created as breast cancer drugs


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 6, 2022)

It was developed as an anti estrogen


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 6, 2022)

Some breast cancers are made to grow faster by estrogen which is why these drugs were created.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> What’s the pathway for that though? Primo or masteron don’t work like AIs. They block the estrogen receptors.
> 
> Like SilentLuluLemons stated, they were developed to treat black boob death in women. You’re gonna crash women’s estrogen? No.
> 
> That other forum is down the toilet anyways.


What are your thoughts on EQ/boldenone and E2?


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Masteron was created as an ai. Ais were created as breast cancer drugs


Fun fact: at that same time, nandrolone was used to treat the black boob death. So was testosterone and even more shockingly, halotestin (at 10-40 mg 3x/day 😱). Masteron wasn’t developed as an AI. It was developed by Syntex (Mexican pharma company that also developed other steroids) as a steroid and was used like the other AAS to treat black boob death in women. At the time, androgens were all they had and they were increasing the androgen to estrogen ratio to reduce the effects of estrogen at the breast tissue. Masteron does nothing to control/inhibit/block estrogen. Pre-menopausal women NEED estrogen because, well, they are women.

When black boob death was studied in further advancements, they were able to develop SERMS such as nolvadex (the most widely prescribed medication to treat black boob death). Later, they were able to develop AIs like arimidex and exemestane but the AIs are reserved for post-menopausal women because again, younger women need estrogen.

DHT derived steroids are androgenic but they don’t have any properties or mechanisms to block/inhibit or control estrogen. Just like many of us know, keeping your testosterone to estrogen level high allows your body to tolerate higher estrogen levels (as confirmed all the time with guys that have estrogen levels in the 100-200 range with no gyno or elevated estrogen sides). This is because your androgen to estrogen ratio is high. You can raise your androgen to estrogen ratio using DHT derived compounds like masteron/primo without any additional aromatization.

There is not one single medical document/study/source showing masteron or primobolan reduces/controls/inhibits estrogen or has any affect on aromatase. If you find a medical source and post it, I will be a fat kid and happily eat all of my words above.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 6, 2022)

Send0 said:


> What are your thoughts on EQ/boldenone and E2?


I don’t know, EQ is weird since it was developed specifically for vet use and was never medically used in humans. 

I know Mike Arnold wrote a pretty good article explaining that one of the metabolites of EQ has anti-estrogenic effects. Again, no medical literature will be available. It was never studied for human use. 

So all reports of EQ lowering estrogen would be based on experience. Everyone is different and there’s a lot of variables involved = bad science.


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Fun fact: at that same time, nandrolone was used to treat the black boob death. So was testosterone and even more shockingly, halotestin (at 10-40 mg 3x/day 😱). Masteron wasn’t developed as an AI. It was developed by Syntex (Mexican pharma company that also developed other steroids) as a steroid and was used like the other AAS to treat black boob death in women. At the time, androgens were all they had and they were increasing the androgen to estrogen ratio to reduce the effects of estrogen at the breast tissue. Masteron does nothing to control/inhibit/block estrogen. Pre-menopausal women NEED estrogen because, well, they are women.
> 
> When black boob death was studied in further advancements, they were able to develop SERMS such as nolvadex (the most widely prescribed medication to treat black boob death). Later, they were able to develop AIs like arimidex and exemestane but the AIs are reserved for post-menopausal women because again, younger women need estrogen.
> 
> ...


Well I can’t because you’re correct
I’ve been digging. 

“Drostanolone was found to compete with androgen binding sites but not with oestrogen receptors. Therefore it is unlikely that the growth inhibitory effect of drostanolone propionate in human breast cancer is mediated through interaction with oestradiol binding proteins as suggested earlier by other authors.”






						Effect of drostanolone propionate on the binding of oestradiol and dihydrotestosterone by normal and malignant target tissues
					

The influence of drostanolone propionate, an anticancer agent, was tested on the binding of 17 β-oestradiol and dihydrotestosterone to specific recept…




					www.sciencedirect.com


----------



## Send0 (Apr 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I don’t know, EQ is weird since it was developed specifically for vet use and was never medically used in humans.
> 
> I know Mike Arnold wrote a pretty good article explaining that one of the metabolites of EQ has anti-estrogenic effects. Again, no medical literature will be available. It was never studied for human use.
> 
> So all reports of EQ lowering estrogen would be based on experience. Everyone is different and there’s a lot of variables involved = bad science.


My personal experience with it was fine when I was younger. However I ran it for my recomp at the start of last year, and it dropped my E2 from 35 pg/ml all the way down to 4pg/ml.

Like you said, a very individual thing. And apparently can even change how some people react to it as we age.

Fun fact, I believe boldenone is naturally produced by a type of beetle, and also is a metabolite produced in some plants.


----------



## TODAY (Apr 6, 2022)

Send0 said:


> My personal experience with it was fine when I was younger. However I ran it for my recomp at the start of last year, and it dropped my E2 from 35 pg/ml all the way down to 4pg/ml.
> 
> Like you said, a very individual thing. And apparently can even change how some people react to it as we age.
> 
> Fun fact, I believe boldenone is naturally produced by a type of beetle, and also is a metabolite produced in some plants.


I had a very similar experience with boldenone.

I did a blast of 350 test + 450 boldenone cypionate a few years back that resulted in an E2 of 7pg/ml.

For reference, 200mg/wk of test E usually puts me at 35-40pg/ml.

On 250 test+ 500 primo, my last round of bloodwork showed E2 at 37pg/ml

One wonders if some of these reports re: primo crashing E2 levels are the result of unscrupulous UGLs selling boldenone as primo.


----------



## Send0 (Apr 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> One wonders if some of these reports re: primo crashing E2 levels are the result of unscrupulous UGLs selling boldenone as primo.


That's a good point, especially since primo is known to be faked.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Fun fact: at that same time, nandrolone was used to treat the black boob death. So was testosterone and even more shockingly, halotestin (at 10-40 mg 3x/day 😱). Masteron wasn’t developed as an AI. It was developed by Syntex (Mexican pharma company that also developed other steroids) as a steroid and was used like the other AAS to treat black boob death in women. At the time, androgens were all they had and they were increasing the androgen to estrogen ratio to reduce the effects of estrogen at the breast tissue. Masteron does nothing to control/inhibit/block estrogen. Pre-menopausal women NEED estrogen because, well, they are women.
> 
> When black boob death was studied in further advancements, they were able to develop SERMS such as nolvadex (the most widely prescribed medication to treat black boob death). Later, they were able to develop AIs like arimidex and exemestane but the AIs are reserved for post-menopausal women because again, younger women need estrogen.
> 
> ...


I'm impressed
You answered a question in full.
lol


Send0 said:


> That's a good point, especially since primo is known to be faked.



Surprisingly its not faked as much as you would think.
I think @janoshik mentioned a few years back that Primo is not nearly as faked as many would have you think 

Inly one I can think of in recent memory is Gentec, their 100mg Primo was under dosed Test E


----------



## Yano (Apr 6, 2022)

CJ said:


> Hydrox are better than Oreos. Fake > Real


Those things tried to kill my brother years ago haahahahah.

 I get a call from my sister in law ,, you gota come over here , your idiot brothers all blown out, hes on top of the fridge and wont come  down ........ WTF ok ill be over 

I get there walk in .. and asshole is laying on top of the refrigerator ... sees me says ,, Thank God you're here man ,, I'm all fucked up i'm laughing ... i'm crying .. .and the fucking oreo cookies wont stop making fun of me !!!! 

WTF Dude ?? I start looking around ... 

Sister in law had bought Hydrox cookies , he goes into the kitchen to get snacks tripping his ass off .. sees the cookies all smiling at him dropped them and freaked the fuck out , climbed up there to get away haaaahahaha

Drugs r bad M'kayyyy


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Apr 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Fun fact: at that same time, nandrolone was used to treat the black boob death. So was testosterone and even more shockingly, halotestin (at 10-40 mg 3x/day 😱). Masteron wasn’t developed as an AI. It was developed by Syntex (Mexican pharma company that also developed other steroids) as a steroid and was used like the other AAS to treat black boob death in women. At the time, androgens were all they had and they were increasing the androgen to estrogen ratio to reduce the effects of estrogen at the breast tissue. Masteron does nothing to control/inhibit/block estrogen. Pre-menopausal women NEED estrogen because, well, they are women.
> 
> When black boob death was studied in further advancements, they were able to develop SERMS such as nolvadex (the most widely prescribed medication to treat black boob death). Later, they were able to develop AIs like arimidex and exemestane but the AIs are reserved for post-menopausal women because again, younger women need estrogen.
> 
> ...



Interested in your thoughts
Primo/Mast etc
Actually lower SHBG, wouldnt that theoretically cause less estrogen to be bound to SHBG and result in HIGHER e2 overall?
(Since SHBG.texhnically does bind estrogen)
Obviously it doesnt, but I just think it's funny that on paper there is  ot only zero reason for those DHTs to inhibit estrogen, but there is basic chemical information that would state it would cause a very minor increase.

Primo/Mast e2 inhibition is bro science at it's best

I mean, I used to to believe it too years ago, 2 years ago I actuallly was taking Mast for anti estrogenic abilities.
Learned very quickly how wrong I was via bloodwork.


----------



## janoshik (Apr 7, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I'm impressed
> You answered a question in full.
> lol
> 
> ...


Well, there's always this bias in that data - mostly people that are at least somehow versed online send samples to me. 

I'm rather sure the results would look worse if I was better known not in the online community, but in the gym-bro-buying-under-counter-oils community.


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 7, 2022)

janoshik said:


> Well, there's always this bias in that data - mostly people that are at least somehow versed online send samples to me.
> 
> I'm rather sure the results would look worse if I was better known not in the online community, but in the gym-bro-buying-under-counter-oils community.


A while back goodlyfe had sent you samples from his latest batch of HGH and you reported that they were testing more pure than recent pharma and that they were just about as pure as your reference sample. Shortly thereafter I was banned from meso and I did not follow what happened after. Did I miss anything? Because I instantly bought 5 kits of that GH based soley on YOUR data. The whole janoshik schtick I'm not sure I believe you are truly a neutral third party anymore.


----------



## janoshik (Apr 8, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> A while back goodlyfe had sent you samples from his latest batch of HGH and you reported that they were testing more pure than recent pharma and that they were just about as pure as your reference sample. Shortly thereafter I was banned from meso and I did not follow what happened after. Did I miss anything? Because I instantly bought 5 kits of that GH based soley on YOUR data. The whole janoshik schtick I'm not sure I believe you are truly a neutral third party anymore.


So we go from requesting a spoonfeed to saying you bought something solely on my word to suspecting I'm schtick within a single post?

okay.


----------



## Superman (Apr 10, 2022)

Mdwstrn said:


> Gearing up, quite literally 😄, to start another cycle…
> 
> I’ve done 400 mg of Deca in previous cycles and learned the importance of managing prolactin levels. I’ve recently read that primo and Deca can be somewhat similar as far as benefits. I’ve ran one cycle of primo before at 600 mg; didn’t notice any sides but also not great results either (I could have had a bad source I presume).
> 
> ...


Save money on the primo, use the extra cash and buy more deca. You and your joints will thank me later.


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 10, 2022)

Superman said:


> Save money on the primo, use the extra cash and buy more deca. You and your joints will thank me later.


So he wants to better manage sides so he should take more deca?


----------



## Superman (Apr 10, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So he wants to better manage sides so he should take more deca?


That's not what I said. The question boiled down to primo vs deca benefits. I think Deca is gonna yield better results.

I also think managing side effects is part and parcel of using AAS properly


----------



## RiR0 (Apr 10, 2022)

Superman said:


> That's not what I said. The question boiled down to primo vs deca benefits. I think Deca is gonna yield better results.
> 
> I also think managing side effects is part and parcel of using AAS properly


I know what you said and I also know what was asked. 
You think deca is more beneficial. Did he say he had joint problems? Or did he mention managing sides? 
I’d put the actual lean tissue of primo gained against deca any day.


----------



## CJ (Apr 10, 2022)

Superman said:


> That's not what I said. The question boiled down to primo vs deca benefits. I think Deca is gonna yield better results.
> 
> I also think managing side effects is part and parcel of using AAS properly


Wouldn't managing side effects be using compounds that don't give you problems, or smaller doses of one's that do? 🤔


----------



## Superman (Apr 10, 2022)

CJ said:


> Wouldn't managing side effects be using compounds that don't give you problems, or smaller doses of one's that do? 🤔





RiR0 said:


> I know what you said and I also know what was asked.
> You think deca is more beneficial. Did he say he had joint problems? Or did he mention managing sides?
> I’d put the actual lean tissue of primo gained against deca any day.


The OP said he didn't see much from using primo. Maybe he did get a bunk source. But the question boiled down to what was gonna produce better results.

For me it would be deca, and FWIW the OP did state he had learned the importance of managing his prolactin sides with decades.

Either way my intention isn't to ruffle feathers and get into a passing contest. Good luck to the OP.


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 10, 2022)

janoshik said:


> So we go from requesting a spoonfeed to saying you bought something solely on my word to suspecting I'm schtick within a single post?
> 
> okay.


I remember a while back meso members scratching their collective heads wondering why a certain powder supplier (well, ok, THE powder supplier) did not bother testing raws before sending them to customers. It was easy quick positive publicity, and the crazy part is the source even owns an HPLC. But alas, with no one qualified to use it the poor machine it just sits there collecting dust. Meanwhile the source is forced to send out untested  product praying just praying for the day when someone will test his raws and provide the AAS black market some  legitimacy. 

And then one day there was Jano, and the AAS world rejoiced! 

I'm sure this is all a big coincidence. If you worked for some big AAS source, for sure you would be transparent about it. 

Right?


----------



## John Ziegler (Apr 10, 2022)

ran primo for 6 months at 400 a week plus 200 test 

sweaty af big veins paranoid really horny good endurance  looks awesome 👍

Have used deca a lot more times 
bigger yet softer look feels good regular horny repairs injury not just a mask in my experience, no deca dick exept towards the end of one  a little bit because i e ran it too long 



ive not read the thread


----------



## TiredandHot (Apr 10, 2022)

Superman said:


> The OP said he didn't see much from using primo. Maybe he did get a bunk source. But the question boiled down to what was gonna produce better results.
> 
> For me it would be deca, and FWIW the OP did state he had learned the importance of managing his prolactin sides with decades.
> 
> Either way my intention isn't to ruffle feathers and get into a passing contest. Good luck to the OP.


You're good man, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'd imagine there are other guys who might agree with you as well about deca. I've never used it, nor will.


----------



## Methyl mike (Apr 10, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> You're good man, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'd imagine there are other guys who might agree with you as well about deca. I've never used it, nor will.


Hey that's really great, it's great you are a close minded pussy. Let the whole world know, scream jt from the rooftops. WORLD I AM A FAGGOT PUSSY AND THATS SOOPER GREAT THANK YOU MOM THANK YOU PAW!!! Because the world needs more people just like you in it. 

Except it doesn't.


----------



## TiredandHot (Apr 10, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Hey that's really great, it's great you are a close minded pussy. Let the whole world know, scream jt from the rooftops. WORLD I AM A FAGGOT PUSSY AND THATS SOOPER GREAT THANK YOU MOM THANK YOU PAW!!! Because the world needs more people just like you in it.
> 
> Except it doesn't.


Stfu nutcase. You off your meds again?


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 10, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> Stfu nutcase. You off your meds again?


Gtfo nobody wants you here!


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 10, 2022)

Some don't want me here either, but im a troll so..... Ur a troll from now on


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## Methyl mike (Apr 10, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> Stfu nutcase. You off your meds again?


Fuck off bitch. Go be scared of your own shadow and let real men do man shit.


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## TiredandHot (Apr 10, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Fuck off bitch. Go be scared of your own shadow and let real men do man shit.


All this hostility from telling another member that his belief deca is better than primo is acceptable to voice in a thread on the subject??? I'm not going to argue with you to have to feel like an alpha male.


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## Methyl mike (Apr 10, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> All this hostility from telling another member that his belief deca is better than primo is acceptable to voice in a thread on the subject??? I'm not going to argue with you to have to feel like an alpha male.


Why feel the need to inform the world you are scared to try a particular steroid then? And what question were you answering when you said it? You just had a feelin and went for it eh?


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## Send0 (Apr 10, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Hey that's really great, it's great you are a close minded pussy. Let the whole world know, scream jt from the rooftops. WORLD I AM A FAGGOT PUSSY AND THATS SOOPER GREAT THANK YOU MOM THANK YOU PAW!!! Because the world needs more people just like you in it.
> 
> Except it doesn't.





Methyl mike said:


> Fuck off bitch. Go be scared of your own shadow and let real men do man shit.


Sigh.. sorry to do this but you went and attacked a member unprovoked. You get a 1 day ban and can come back tomorrow.

Maybe you're having a bad day, I don't know... But this was random and uncalled for. @TiredandHot's initial response wasn't even to you and it wasn't inflammatory in anyway. He said he didn't agree with Superman's opinion, and you flew off the handle.

Hope you sort out whatever is bugging you.


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## MisterSuperGod (Apr 10, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Hey that's really great, it's great you are a close minded pussy. Let the whole world know, scream jt from the rooftops. WORLD I AM A FAGGOT PUSSY AND THATS SOOPER GREAT THANK YOU MOM THANK YOU PAW!!! Because the world needs more people just like you in it.
> 
> Except it doesn't.



Uncalled for. Time to sign off, Mike.


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## Send0 (Apr 10, 2022)

MisterSuperGod said:


> Uncalled for. Time to sign off, Mike.


No idea why he's so triggered. He got a 1 day vacation. Hopefully he is able to squash whatever is going on with him today, and come back a bit calmer.


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## TiredandHot (Apr 10, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Sigh.. sorry to do this but you went and attacked a member unprovoked. You get a 1 day ban and can come back tomorrow.
> 
> Maybe you're having a bad day, I don't know... But this was random and uncalled for. @TiredandHot's initial response wasn't even to you and it wasn't inflammatory in anyway. He said he didn't agree with Superman's opinion, and you flew off the handle.
> 
> Hope you sort out whatever is bugging you.





MisterSuperGod said:


> Uncalled for. Time to sign off, Mike.


I began to question how to interpret what I said, dang. Wasn't expecting that response.


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## RiR0 (Apr 10, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Fuck off bitch. Go be scared of your own shadow and let real men do man shit.


Sounds like me when I wake up from a nap


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## Send0 (Apr 10, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> I began to question how to interpret what I said, dang. Wasn't expecting that response.


Bro, I read your reply to superman and it was about as cordial as a person could be. 

How someone interprets that as being closed minded, or why someone would basically say you can't share your opinion, is beyond me.

I'm sure Mike is just having a bad day. We all have them.


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## RiR0 (Apr 10, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> I began to question how to interpret what I said, dang. Wasn't expecting that response.


Not making excuses for him or anything but I believe I’ve heard Mike say he does have diagnosed bipolar or something.


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## Send0 (Apr 11, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Not making excuses for him or anything but I believe I’ve heard Mike say he does have diagnosed bipolar or something.


I believe this is true. Which is why I assumed he has something going on that triggered a depressive episode. 

I hope he is able to work through whatever is going on.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 11, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Fuck off bitch. Go be scared of your own shadow and let real men do man shit.


Mike. You should go get some sleep. You obviously don’t see what this does to your credibility. Stop it.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 11, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Some don't want me here either, but im a troll so..... Ur a troll from now on


Some???

Nobody wants you here. 

Name one person that wants you here.


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## Intel.imperitive (Apr 11, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Some???
> 
> Nobody wants you here.
> 
> Name one person that wants you here.


Am I in grade 5


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 11, 2022)

Intel.imperitive said:


> Am I in grade 5


No. We know you’re a lonely old piece of shit dude. Probably divorced. Your wife (now ex-wife) was  banging gym bros for years and now a heavily muscled guy is raising your kids in your place.

Sad.


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## shackleford (Apr 11, 2022)

Send0 said:


> No idea why he's so triggered. He got a 1 day vacation. Hopefully he is able to squash whatever is going on with him today, and come back a bit calmer.


he does this from time to time. he'll come back and apologize. its routine and i think legitamate.

edit. apparently youre already aware of this. well, you gotta do what you gotta do. But imo mike isnt malicious, just has some bad days.


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## RiR0 (Apr 11, 2022)

shackleford said:


> he does this from time to time. he'll come back and apologize. its routine and i think legitamate.
> 
> edit. apparently youre already aware of this. well, you gotta do what you gotta do. But imo mike isnt malicious, just has some bad days.


I’ve gotten into it with him in the past before I realized hes not a bad guy just has some issues.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 11, 2022)

shackleford said:


> he does this from time to time. he'll come back and apologize. its routine and i think legitamate.
> 
> edit. apparently youre already aware of this. well, you gotta do what you gotta do. But imo mike isnt malicious, just has some bad days.



yeah Mike is a good guy
This just happens every once in a while


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## Superman (Apr 11, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> You're good man, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'd imagine there are other guys who might agree with you as well about deca. I've never used it, nor will.


I hear ya man, got alot of experience with compounds in my time.

Just trying to offer my 2 cents and help where I can based on my time in the game.

I like to hear everyone's opinion I think we all have something positive to offer.

I just wanted to make it clear I'm not trying to shit on anybody for any reason.

I appreciate the response I found it very agreeable even though we don't see eye to eye. I look forward to seeing more of your posts.


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## BRICKS (Apr 11, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> Google is a horrible tool sometimes.
> 
> I don't like compounds being slotted as bulk or cut, that in the kitchen no matter what your on.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more.  Nobody talks about tren for gaining ("bulking", a term I hate) only cutting.  It works fkn great for putting on size.  It doesn't take much thought.  Let's see, could a compound that has 5 times more anabolic potency make you grow?  Hmmmmm.


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## Superman (Apr 12, 2022)

BRICKS said:


> Couldn't agree more.  Nobody talks about tren for gaining ("bulking", a term I hate) only cutting.  It works fkn great for putting on size.  It doesn't take much thought.  Let's see, could a compound that has 5 times more anabolic potency make you grow?  Hmmmmm.


This is awesome!

I couldn't agree more with you. I get tired of seeing people reading steroid profiles and what they are "theoretically" capable of, then parroting the same stuff as gospel.

I much prefer experience over a steroid profile that is parroted all over the internet.

PS tren is awesome for size and strength gains.


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 12, 2022)

tren is a multi-purpose steroid.It can do anything better then just about any gear..It will make u stronger then anyhting.leaner then anything and better quality muscle..It can also target fat in places u just cant cardio out of u


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## BRICKS (Apr 12, 2022)

Bro Bundy said:


> tren is a multi-purpose steroid.It can do anything better then just about any gear..It will make u stronger then anyhting.leaner then anything and better quality muscle..It can also target fat in places u just cant cardio out of u


No aromatization, no puffy water weight gain.  And a little goes a long ways


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## Superman (Apr 13, 2022)

Bro Bundy said:


> tren is a multi-purpose steroid.It can do anything better then just about any gear..It will make u stronger then anyhting.leaner then anything and better quality muscle..It can also target fat in places u just cant cardio out of u


I will say the one other hormone I like just as much is trestolone. I have had fantastic experience with it. It transforms and hardens my physique very quickly while on it.

But I second the tren thoughts... it makes a good physique that much better.

Quickly.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 13, 2022)

Superman said:


> I will say the one other hormone I like just as much is trestolone. I have had fantastic experience with it. It transforms and hardens my physique very quickly while on it.
> 
> But I second the tren thoughts... it makes a good physique that much better.
> 
> Quickly.



Would love to try MENT
But I look at it and kinda decide against it.
Nothing against the compound.

It's just I have Test doses and ancilliaries dialed the fuck in to the point I dont even have to think about it whatsoever on a blast.
I guess I'm just not adventurous enough any ore to add anything else to the mix

and to be honest, I'm just not at that level, I still grow and feel amazing from Test lol


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## Superman (Apr 13, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Would love to try MENT
> But I look at it and kinda decide against it.
> Nothing against the compound.
> 
> ...


It's really expensive, worth it if you ever want to give it a try.

Nothing wrong with just using test if you're loving it!

If you're willing to give blood EQ ran at north of 800/week works great on long cycles 16+ weeks for me anyways.

Otherwise, throwing some Winnie in the middle or end of a test cycle really gives a nice polish to a physique.

I can't go to hard on Winnie it really beats up my joints, I do like the results from it though.


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 13, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> It's just I have Test doses and ancilliaries dialed the fuck in to the point I dont even have to think about it whatsoever on a blast.





silentlemon1011 said:


> I still grow and feel amazing from Test lol


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## RiR0 (Apr 13, 2022)

JuiceTrain said:


> View attachment 20667


there’s nothing more underrated than a good test cycle.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 13, 2022)

Superman said:


> It's really expensive, worth it if you ever want to give it a try.
> 
> Nothing wrong with just using test if you're loving it!
> 
> ...



My brother is currently running Ment and loves it

EQ is a no go for me as well
I have elevated HCT and already donate from TRT alone, would probably have. motor oil in my veins by the end of that blast lmao

I used to love Winnie back in the day, always treated me well, but I've pretty much sworn off orals top, due to stomach issues... and inj is too much work,
Like you, it beats up my joints as well, even though it never used to in my younger years.

Currently running 750mg Test
No other compounds, might jump to a gram if my mid cycle bloods check out and I'm feeling good.
Throw some Var in in the backend at 50mg to just add a finished look

Figure I'll cruise for the summer on TRT plus 200mg Primp if markers look solid as well


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## Superman (Apr 13, 2022)

Sounds solid brother, I've ran a gram of test per week before... amazing. Sounds like you're already tuned up and I don't need to tell you but with that much test just watch your sides!

Var is awesome I just can't deal with the back pumps over 25 MG/day.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 13, 2022)

Superman said:


> Sounds solid brother, I've ran a gram of test per week before... amazing. Sounds like you're already tuned up and I don't need to tell you but with that much test just watch your sides!
> 
> Var is awesome I just can't deal with the back pumps over 25 MG/day.



That's the highest I've gone
Will definitely take some time to dial in Aromasin, as it's not a simple 12.5mg/250mg equation lmao
So we will see how it goes
Pharma Ralox and Nolva on standby, see how I react.
Yeah, back pumps suck, I just supplement a fuck tonne of Magnesium/potassium and Taurine to offset and it's usually not too bad


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## ATLRigger (Apr 13, 2022)

Yano said:


> View attachment 20224


‘Facebook expert’ I’ve seen that point on the chart labeled (peak of mount stupid)


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## Samp3i (Apr 14, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> Google is a horrible tool sometimes.
> 
> I don't like compounds being slotted as bulk or cut, that in the kitchen no matter what your on.
> 
> ...


Anadrol is the master of oral for cut imho nothing better to be flat and depleted and with a massive appetite and then add anadrol: boom no appetite, size start coming up, no flatness anymore and you still losing fat. 

Abomb is the shit for cutting.
Love it for bulking too of it wasn't for the appetite suppressant I receive so in the end for me it's bad for bulking, no food no grow


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## Samp3i (Apr 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Not making excuses for him or anything but I believe I’ve heard Mike say he does have diagnosed bipolar or something.


And he is without medical insurance and no bloodwork but he advocates running shit load of gear and he is a nutcase that could be the brother of intel.imperative.


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## RiR0 (Apr 14, 2022)

Samp3i said:


> And he is without medical insurance and no bloodwork but he advocates running shit load of gear and he is a nutcase that could be the brother of intel.imperative.


Another high quality simp post.


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## Oldbastard (Apr 19, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> SFGiants said:
> 
> 
> > Google is a horrible tool sometimes.
> ...


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 19, 2022)

This
Realizing that the gear does less than you think is a big step.
When I first started cycling I got less than stellar results because training and food weren't on point.

Got a coach, took me off the gear streamlined my food and training, made better results naturally then I did cycling.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Apr 19, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> This
> Realizing that the gear does less than you think is a big step.
> When I first started cycling I got less than stellar results because training and food weren't on point.
> 
> Got a coach, took me off the gear streamlined my food and training, made better results naturally then I did cycling.


For me personally, I didn't start seeing the gains until phrases like "on point", "Good 2 Go" and "Chime in" entered my world. 

Now whenever I want the gainzzzz I just stand in the mirror and repeat this phrase 3 times: "if I may chime in, my diet is on point and my gear is good 2 go." and it's like *poof* 20-inch biceps.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 19, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> For me personally, I didn't start seeing the gains until phrases like "on point", "Good 2 Go" and "Chime in" entered my world.
> 
> Now whenever I want the gainzzzz I just stand in the mirror and repeat this phrase 3 times: "if I may chime in, my diet is on point and my gear is good 2 go." and it's like *poof* 20-inch biceps.



This is correct.
and yes, I use "Diet on point too much"

lmao, duly noted.


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