# Glucose Disposal Agents (Berberine)



## UrogenitalSubsect (Mar 14, 2018)

Has anyone had any success with a GDA like Berberine or metformin? I've been thinking of picking up some Berberine to help shuttle carbs into muscle glycogen and maintain insulin sensitivity during my next bulk, as I'll be consuming a decent amount of high GI carbs periworkout. Has anyone had any good results with a GDA (namely Berberine, but metformin has similar effects) for help in nutrient partitioning?


----------



## Jin (Mar 15, 2018)

Search for MrRippedZilla thread on this. From what I remember it's pretty worthless.
 At least to run by itself.


----------



## UrogenitalSubsect (Mar 15, 2018)

Jin said:


> Search for MrRippedZilla thread on this. From what I remember it's pretty worthless.
> At least to run by itself.


Will search for it. That's interesting to hear as I've only heard good things about it...


----------



## dk8594 (Mar 15, 2018)

If you're really curious, looks like you can get it for about $20. Be your own experiment. Give it a shot and let us know.


----------



## UrogenitalSubsect (Mar 15, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> If you're really curious, looks like you can get it for about $20. Be your own experiment. Give it a shot and let us know.


Yeah I mean Berberine HCL is like $20, and you can get it with milk thistle too (which is actually known to be effective for liver support) so it might be a fun investment.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 15, 2018)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Yeah I mean Berberine HCL is like $20, and you can get it with milk thistle too (which is actually known to be effective for liver support) so it might be a fun investment.



Milk thistle has NOT been shown to be an effective prophylactic treatment for the liver during AAS use.


----------



## UrogenitalSubsect (Mar 15, 2018)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Milk thistle has NOT been shown to be an effective prophylactic treatment for the liver during AAS use.


Really? I still see a lot of people using it for non oral compound liver supports. When there's orals involved people recommend TUDCA or NAC at the very least but I always thought milk thistle had some benefits.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 15, 2018)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Really? I still see a lot of people using it for non oral compound liver supports. When there's orals involved people recommend TUDCA or NAC at the very least but I always thought milk thistle had some benefits.



People don’t know any better and tend to parrot bullshit.


----------



## Jin (Mar 15, 2018)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Really? I still see a lot of people using it for non oral compound liver supports. When there's orals involved people recommend TUDCA or NAC at the very least but I always thought milk thistle had some benefits.



I have labs from running TUDCA. It was effective in reducing liver enzymes. IME this is the best compound for liver support.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 16, 2018)

Jin said:


> I have labs from running TUDCA. It was effective in reducing liver enzymes. IME this is the best compound for liver support.



A reduction in liver enzymes doesn’t mean the liver is being protected unfortunately.


----------



## UrogenitalSubsect (Mar 16, 2018)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> A reduction in liver enzymes doesn’t mean the liver is being protected unfortunately.


Fair enough, are NAC and TUDCA still effective?


----------



## Jin (Mar 16, 2018)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> A reduction in liver enzymes doesn’t mean the liver is being protected unfortunately.



How about you elaborate for once instead of popping in to prove a point? Share your knowledge. These one liners are unhelpful.


----------



## bvs (Mar 16, 2018)

Metformin gave me the shits (literally)


----------



## UrogenitalSubsect (Mar 16, 2018)

bvs said:


> Metformin gave me the shits (literally)


I've heard of GI issues as a common side effect for metformin, which is why I was looking into Berberine.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 16, 2018)

Jin said:


> How about you elaborate for once instead of popping in to prove a point? Share your knowledge. These one liners are unhelpful.



I prefer to get people thinking and asking questions. 

The point is slight elevations in LFTs are normal. AST and ALT can rise up to 3x baseline values or more simply from working out. I believe it’s ALT that can vary 20-30% just randomly throughout the day. People get all uppity about ZOMG my liver is being destroyed if they see AST and ALT in the hundreds, but it’s perfectly normal considering what’s going on. A beer or a dose of Tylenol can do that yet people don’t run for liver protection when they go out drinking or pop some Tylenol for a headache. 

Liver damage occurs at much higher levels and at that point, no liver supplement is going to do jack shit for you. No liver supplement has been shown to reduce mortality rates or prevent cirrhosis of the liver from AAS-induced damage. Sure NAC is an exception in regards to Tylenol overdose but that doesn’t apply to AAS. ThEres a study out somewhere that shows TUDCA itself can be hepatotoxic when taken at the right dosages. Bottom line is, if you want to keep your liver healthy, then limit the dose and duration of oral AAS and be sure to get enough fluids/water.

edit* I should add that bilirubin is a better indicator of liver function for us as RippedZilla has posted on here a few times about.


----------



## Rhino99 (Mar 16, 2018)

Metformin makes me eat like im a family of hungry jackalopes


----------

