# Why not Mast for first cycle?



## zog (Jan 25, 2014)

Hi Guys,

I'm a newb doing research and have a question that doesn't seem to have been answered yet.

Why doesn't anybody recommend masteron for a first cycle?

I know...I know... test e+ai+pct are the traditional 1st cycle, but it seems like mast is perfect for someone who's paranoid about sides.

Why I'm thinking mast would be good (would love to hear counterarguments):
+ Does not aromatize so no need for letro or other AI.
+ No conversion to DHT so no risk of going bald.
+ Injected so not hepatoxic like orals.

Quite frankly that sounds awesome to me...
The only negatives I've found are:
+ Expensive
+ Requires low bodyfat for best effects
+ Slightly lowers estrogen so may impair joint and immune function. (sounds manageable...)

I already have low body fat, and I'd pay anything to keep my hair, so it sounds like Mast would be perfect.
Since there's no discussion of it though, I feel like I've missed something in my readings.

I'm considering mast over the traditional test cycle since the risk of hair loss makes me hesitant to commit to gear.
It seems all men in my family (who're alive at least) are bald.
Note: no men in my family live past 45 so it's hard to tell really.
Is hair-loss even an issue at the 500/week that everybody starts pinning?

Appreciate the help!


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Jan 25, 2014)

Are you asking about running mast by itself or with test as well?
Running it by itself is a dumb idea. It's simple, steroids shut down your natural test production. So if you aren't injecting it during your cycle you won't have any. Which would make you estrogen dominant. Do you want to be a woman?


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## Joliver (Jan 25, 2014)

Masteron will blast the hair off of your head.  It doesn't convert to DHT but it is similar to DHT.


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## Seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

Actually the reason you shouldn't run masteron by itself is because your estradiol level will most likely get to low. You should run it with some test. Even a small dosage of test will help


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 25, 2014)

The actual reason to run test only for a first cycle is because all future cycles will include test as a base.  In order to understand and manage side effects appropriately you need to know what is causing what.  Otherwise you are left to scramble and can wind up in some trouble.  This way you know test gets you result x. Then when you add deca in a future cycle you know test still gets you result x and deca gets you result x + y.  Test, Deca, Dbol gets you result x + y + z and so on.  This is also why tren is best left to experienced users because the results from tren are like xyz to the 3rd power divided by 1600 x pi

Don't try and re-invent the wheel.  Study the basics. Testosterone. Its effects. Its side effects. How to manage sides. What is an ester? Half life? PCT, safe injection techniques, site locations, how to id an infection versus post injection pain versus an allergic reaction.


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## zog (Jan 25, 2014)

f.r.a.n.k. said:


> Are you asking about running mast by itself or with test as well?
> Running it by itself is a dumb idea. It's simple, steroids shut down your natural test production. So if you aren't injecting it during your cycle you won't have any. Which would make you estrogen dominant. Do you want to be a woman?



Interesting...I'm a bit confused since http://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/masteron/
is suggesting that some people use mast by itself. Not saying that website looks especially reputable...



joliver said:


> Masteron will blast the hair off of your head.  It doesn't convert to DHT but it is similar to DHT.



Well damn, that's terrible. What's the best way to keep your hair? Bitches dig the hair y'know.
SARMS are looking like they might be a good way to go. Specifically MK-2866.
http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/1995-Ostarine-MK-2866-Information
The increase in tendon/ligament strength is especially attractive.



Seeker said:


> Actually the reason you shouldn't run masteron by itself is because your estradiol level will most likely get to low. You should run it with some test. Even a small dosage of test will help



That makes sense would 200/wk be enough?

Thanks again all.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 25, 2014)

zog said:


> Interesting...I'm a bit confused since http://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/masteron/
> is suggesting that some people use mast by itself. Not saying that website looks especially reputable...
> 
> 
> ...



Meso is a decent enough site, but a lot of their discussions are retarded and not all the info is accurate. Nobody runs mast only cycles. Unless they are a moron. Or a woman. 

MK-2866 is a great chemical. I love it. Not everyone experiences the great benefits of it. Some just don't seem to respond, others respond negatively.  I used to like it between cycles. 

Keep in mind hair loss is genetic. Gear will only speed up the hair loss. If its not in your genes, then hair loss isn't a concern.


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## Seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

Yes 200 mg would be fine but POB is correct about running test as your "1st" cycle. For all the reasons he mentioned.


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## SHRUGS (Jan 25, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> The actual reason to run test only for a first cycle is because all future cycles will include test as a base.  In order to understand and manage side effects appropriately you need to know what is causing what.  Otherwise you are left to scramble and can wind up in some trouble.  This way you know test gets you result x. Then when you add deca in a future cycle you know test still gets you result x and deca gets you result x + y.  Test, Deca, Dbol gets you result x + y + z and so on.  This is also why tren is best left to experienced users because the results from tren are like xyz to the 3rd power divided by 1600 x pi
> 
> Don't try and re-invent the wheel.  Study the basics. Testosterone. Its effects. Its side effects. How to manage sides. What is an ester? Half life? PCT, safe injection techniques, site locations, how to id an infection versus post injection pain versus an allergic reaction.



THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If u were to run both and have sides you wouldn't know wtf was causing what. Learn Test very well before you fuk around with other goodies brother.
!SHRUGS!


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## GuerillaKilla (Jan 25, 2014)

^^^^ this is true, but SHRUGS is a homo and will try to rape you. 

Why are boobs good? Why is the sky blue? Why is one natural titty bigger than the other natural titty?


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## Rumpy (Jan 25, 2014)

GuerillaKilla said:


> but SHRUGS is a homo and will try to rape you.



Why am I just hearing this now?  What's his address?


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## GuerillaKilla (Jan 25, 2014)

You always have flesh pipes stuffed in your ears, its a wonder your eardrums arent ruptured.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Jan 25, 2014)

Seeker said:


> Actually the reason you shouldn't run masteron by itself is because your estradiol level will most likely get to low. You should run it with some test. Even a small dosage of test will help



Yes his estrogen will be suppressed on mast only but his testosterone will be SHUT DOWN. My comment wasn't directed towards just Mast. It applies to running any steroid without a testosterone base.
And yes if test is the base of all cycles then you should start with test as your first cycle. 

Hair all goes back to genetics. Some are prone to it and some arent. If going bald is that big a worry to you, steroids may not be for you OP.


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## zog (Jan 25, 2014)

SHRUGS said:


> THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If u were to run both and have sides you wouldn't know wtf was causing what. Learn Test very well before you fuk around with other goodies brother.
> !SHRUGS!



Thanks for the advice guys.

So to sum up the thread so far...
Mast is a terrible first cycle because:
+ Test will always be the foundation of any cycle. Without thoroughly understanding test and its sides, stacks and high dose sides will become difficult to manage.
+ Mast does not convert to DHT, but it acts like DHT and will destroy hair if you are genetically susceptible.
+ Mast will drop estradiol levels low enough to cause problems, running test with Mast will offset this effect. However, see first point on running stacks.

Since I'm just starting research, I'm at least a year away from running gear if I go this route, but this is all great info.


I've gotten about 5 responses saying Test-only for first cycles, but reading about SARMS, they seem like a good deal as well.
I'm curious if they've been a game changer at all in terms of first cycle advice.
+They lack many of the worst sides (though some hepatoxicity and visual disturbances reported)
+Reliable sources available online (like GWP) vs. gear, I haven't heard of any reliable online sources. (lol there's even a sticky)
+Oral, no pinning.
+No or mini-PCT required to recover HPTA

Is this a matter of efficacy and how quickly gear will increase bulk compared to SARMS?
or Pillar implied SARMS are not 100% effective for everybody while Test works on EVERYBODY.

Like I've said, I've heard you guys: test for first cycle, no need to reinvent the wheel.
So no disrespect meant with these questions I just like to turn over every rock before committing to a direction.
And I'm guessing there are other newbs who are looking into SARMS and would like to know why they aren't a great first cycle.



GuerillaKilla said:


> ^^^^ this is true, but SHRUGS is a homo and will try to rape you.
> 
> Why are boobs good? Why is the sky blue? Why is one natural titty bigger than the other natural titty?





Rumpy said:


> Why am I just hearing this now?  What's his address?



This is great info for newbs as well. Seconded please.
SHRUGS was very helpful, I'd like to return the favor.


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## Seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

f.r.a.n.k. said:


> Yes his estrogen will be suppressed on mast only but his testosterone will be SHUT DOWN. My comment wasn't directed towards just Mast. It applies to running any steroid without a testosterone base.
> And yes if test is the base of all cycles then you should start with test as your first cycle.
> 
> Hair all goes back to genetics. Some are prone to it and some arent. If going bald is that big a worry to you, steroids may not be for you OP.



Yes thank you for  the lesson,  running juice since  the late 70's I'm fully aware of the importance of testosterone in a cycle. Not really sure why you're singling out my comment but I think he got good solid information from ALL our responses.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Jan 25, 2014)

Just the way your comment was worded brother. "Actually the reason..."
And even though your comment was quoted in mine, the information was for him. It's no offense brother. It just seemed like yours was correcting mine and I was just stating my case.
All that matters is hopefully OP will run test this time around.
Won't you OP?


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## Bro Bundy (Jan 25, 2014)

i say run it and report back to us


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## TheBlob (Jan 25, 2014)

GuerillaKilla said:


> ^^^^ this is true, but SHRUGS is a homo and will try to rape you.



Being raped aint so bad, it only hurts the first time. After that its just embarassing


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## SFGiants (Jan 25, 2014)

joliver said:


> Masteron will blast the hair off of your head.  It doesn't convert to DHT but it is similar to DHT.



Only if you one that is bound for balding.

I am 45 I have almost no grey and have not lost a stitch of hair and I run Mast a lot I have run it year round.


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## Seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

f.r.a.n.k. said:


> Just the way your comment was worded brother. "Actually the reason..."
> And even though your comment was quoted in mine, the information was for him. It's no offense brother. It just seemed like yours was correcting mine and I was just stating my case.
> All that matters is hopefully OP will run test this time around.
> Won't you OP?



Oh I see what you mean. No, I was just trying to inform him of what mast would to his estro alone. I figured you already covered the natural test part.    I think op is doing the right thing by  asking these types of questions and preparing himself for the future. Yes, op there was a time when people would run compounds without test. I myself have done it the past..the distant past..lol. Times have changed and people know better today,  including myself.


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## Joliver (Jan 25, 2014)

SFGiants said:


> Only if you one that is bond for balding.
> 
> I am 45 I have almost no grey and have not lost a stitch of hair and I run Mast a lot I have run it year round.



True. True.  The caveat is that if you are predispositioned to MPB....Masteron will blast the hair off of your head like a weedeater.


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## DieYoungStrong (Jan 25, 2014)

joliver said:


> True. True.  The caveat is that if you are predispositioned to MPB....Masteron will blast the hair off of your head like a weedeater.



I've done lots of cycles and nothing has bothered my hair line. I ran mast over the summer, and my hair line definitely started thinning pretty noticeably. It came back to normal within a month or 2 of stopping the mast.


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## don draco (Jan 25, 2014)

As the others have said.. stick with test first to see how you react to it.  If you run more than 1 compound for your first and experience sides, you won't know which is causing them. 

As for hair loss, genetics will determine how badly mast blasts your hairline.  If you're prone to MPB, you can be almost 100% sure that you will experience accelerated hair loss.   I started losing more hairs than usual while on mast e ( and im not prone to MPB as far as I know ), so I started using a topical DHT blocker/hair growth product (lipogaine) to slow it down.  Hair loss slowed down considerably once I started it.  I dropped the mast a few weeks ago (along with the lipogaine) and the hair loss has ceased.   

I actually noticed my hair thinning on the top of my head as the weeks progressed .. But I checked again last night, and my hair is back to its original state only a few weeks later. 

So, the hair loss from mast may be temporary .. or it could be permanent.  If you're prone to MPB and don't want to lose your hair just yet, I'd stay away..


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## FreeBirdSam (Jan 26, 2014)

And just so you know,  we aren't you.  What works for us might not work for you, and vise versa.  What's important is you learning how you respond to a certain chemical, and finding a dose that works for YOU.

500mg's a week of testosterone is a good STARTING POINT.   We can only point you in the right direction, you have to decide what YOUR best way of getting there will be.

Think outside the box, but within reason!


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