# Clearing up minute details for my cycle.



## Up'dMyCarbs (May 16, 2015)

Hi there veterans, how are you all doing,

So I'll be starting my first cycle on monday and I would really appreciate it if some veterans can help me out solving some small doubts regarding my cycle.

So for my first cycle, I'll do your standard bread and butter TEST E + Var combo which will go like this.
Weeks 1-12 (Test E 500mg/week Monday and Thursday)
Weeks 1-4 (Anavar 60MG/Everyday) <-------- Question: Split between 3 doses 8 hrs apart? something like 9 am, 5pm (my workout time) and night time.
Weeks 1-12(HCG 500IU split in 2 doses) <---- Question: When to take hcg, should something like tuesday and friday be on point?
Weeks 1-12 (Aromasin 10mg/day) <--------Question: do I take it in the morning?, Do I start taking from day 1 of my cycle, is the dosage on point?

Then PCT which I have sorted out already.

Also I plan on rotating injection purely on my quads but I've read that so many people don't like quad injections, for me personally I think that would be my preffered spot. Is there something I should know about quad injections?

Should I take my var and AI along with some grapefruit juice? Based on my research a lot of people like doing so to "enhance" absorption.

Also regarding HCG injection, to pinch the skin or not to pinch? I've seen both opinions. Ill do stomach injections on the hcg by the way.

Also, I might start with adex the first week and switch to Asin, should I start adex at day 1(monday) at 12.5mg? and then e3d

Thank you so much everyone and I appreciate your time in helping me, really


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## mickems (May 16, 2015)

I'm not a vet but, I did test only for first cycle so I knew how I would react to the compound I was using.


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## PillarofBalance (May 16, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Hi there veterans, how are you all doing,
> 
> So I'll be starting my first cycle on monday and I would really appreciate it if some veterans can help me out solving some small doubts regarding my cycle.
> 
> ...



Just take the var all at once pre workout.

Hcg is day after test injection. Pinch the skin for a subq injection.

Why would you start with adex then switch to aromasin? Just take the aromasin. 10 mg per day is overkill. Don't take any unless you have signs that your e2 is out of control like excessive bloat itchy nipples or you are acting like a bitch.

Grapefruit juice is ****ing gross tasting.

Quads for some have a lot of nerve endings.  You won't know until you hit one. learn to inject delts quads glutes.  You need to rotate your sites.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 16, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Just take the var all at once pre workout.
> 
> Hcg is day after test injection. Pinch the skin for a subq injection.
> 
> ...



Var, preworkout? so that'll be 60MG 30 minutes before I train? got it.

Oh yea, forgot to tell you I planned on switching since I learned that Asin is better on blood lipids so I was trying to get a hold of that.

In respect of Adex, how much would I take a day? I've seen ppl say e3d is not optimal because of adex's half life. e2d at 0.5mg would be too much right? Another problem that I have with adex is that the pills are 1mg, and getting 0.25 of that is kind of a struggle to cut.

So please help me clear this out, you are saying ONLY take AI when I experience Estrogen issues? I thought one would take it from day 1 as a preventive measure.

Ha! but I like grapefruice juice, look at kai greene, he likes grapefruit juice too lol

Alright, I will research delt and glute injections ASAP.

Once again thank you very much!


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## bronco (May 16, 2015)

I have never heard of taking an oral with grapefruit juice


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## NbleSavage (May 16, 2015)

Just have the aromasin on hand and if you get symptoms start with 10 Mg EOD. Don't need the adex at all.


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## Thedroidstr (May 16, 2015)

A first cycle should be test only. It gives you a good baseline on how you body will react. If you take var with test and have some sides you won't know if it is from the var or the test.


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## PillarofBalance (May 16, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Var, preworkout? so that'll be 60MG 30 minutes before I train? got it.
> 
> Oh yea, forgot to tell you I planned on switching since I learned that Asin is better on blood lipids so I was trying to get a hold of that.
> 
> ...



Lol at kai... will never live that down... taking too much ai will knock your dick in the dirt and make your joints feel like glass. Just wait on it.



bronco said:


> I have never heard of taking an oral with grapefruit juice



Next time you run dbol take it with grapefruit jewce and see what happens. It can intensify the effects of some drugs. Not sure if var is actually on that list but dbol is.



Thedroidstr said:


> A first cycle should be test only. It gives you a good baseline on how you body will react. If you take var with test and have some sides you won't know if it is from the var or the test.



Sides from var... like mind blowing pumps? I don't think var is so bad for a first cycle. Especially since a lot of the younger guys want everything immediately. If 500 test doesn't blow them up in 2 weeks they up to a gram or freak out like their gear is bunk. It can keep them kind of level headed


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## Thedroidstr (May 16, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Lol at kai... will never live that down... taking too much ai will knock your dick in the dirt and make your joints feel like glass. Just wait on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's actually pretty true! Everyone wants results yesterday


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 16, 2015)

NbleSavage said:


> Just have the aromasin on hand and if you get symptoms start with 10 Mg EOD. Don't need the adex at all.



Thanks for the input Savage.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 16, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Lol at kai... will never live that down... taking too much ai will knock your dick in the dirt and make your joints feel like glass. Just wait on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you make really great points. Thank you!


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 16, 2015)

Also forgot to ask, say I get some estrogen related issues right? So I go ahead and take my AI until I dont have issues and then hop off AI until symptons arrives once again?


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## NbleSavage (May 17, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Also forgot to ask, say I get some estrogen related issues right? So I go ahead and take my AI until I dont have issues and then hop off AI until symptons arrives once again?



If you get symptoms, start low (10 Mg eod) and keep with it until the end of your cycle. Need to keep your E2 in-check but you'll not know how you react (how strong an aromatizer you are) until you get into your cycle. Everyone is different here, and the AI game is a lot about finding what works for you personally.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 17, 2015)

Okay perfect!


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## Megatron28 (May 17, 2015)

Blood work is the best way to know if your estradiol is too high.  Everyone reacts differently when it comes to E2 symptoms.  Some guys can have really high E2 and not notice a single symptom.  But high E2 is still bad for you and should be treated.  Would you rather prevent gyno and edema or treat them after they develop?

Think about high blood pressure as an analogy.  Lots of guys live every day with high BP and they don't know it.  Why do you think they call it the silent killer?  But it is easy to detect with a monitor.  Or you can wait and treat the co-morbidities that high BP causes.

Maybe you will notice symptoms of high E2.  Maybe not.  This is your first cycle so how do you know?  Wouldn't objective and conclusive blood work be better than guessing?  Are those really itchy nipples?  Is it in your head?  Is it from the new shirt your girlfriend or boyfriend bought you?  Is it from the increase in androgen levels?  If you are going to all the trouble of a cycle are you really going to cheap out and not spend the ~$50 for blood work?

I know that I would get blood work rather than using moodiness and itchy nipples as a barometer.  It is so easy and cheap to get private blood work.  To not do so seems silly.


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## PillarofBalance (May 17, 2015)

Megatron28 said:


> Blood work is the best way to know if your estradiol is too high.  Everyone reacts differently when it comes to E2 symptoms.  Some guys can have really high E2 and not notice a single symptom.  But high E2 is still bad for you and should be treated.  Would you rather prevent gyno and edema or treat them after they develop?
> 
> Think about high blood pressure as an analogy.  Lots of guys live every day with high BP and they don't know it.  Why do you think they call it the silent killer?  But it is easy to detect with a monitor.  Or you can wait and treat the co-morbidities that high BP causes.
> 
> ...



Because nobody can say for sure what the guidelines are for "normal" e2 with astronomical levels of test bloodwork is a good idea but wholly unecessary Imo.  Estrogen isn't a silent killer and can't be compared to blood pressure.  It is noticeable if it's a problem.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 17, 2015)

HCG mixing done! But I have a question, theres a very very small rubber particle floating inside my vial? how should I proceed?


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## NbleSavage (May 17, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> HCG mixing done! But I have a question, theres a very very small rubber particle floating inside my vial? how should I proceed?



Its from the rubber stopper in the vial. Just avoid it when you fill your slin pins (is prolly too big to get picked up in your pin anyway).


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 17, 2015)

It actually very very small, almost microscopic but somehow I spotted it.

Idk what to do? I have 2 vials 5000IU each

Also I was thinking of extracting when I need and put the rest in the fridge. Is that not advisable?


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## HDH (May 18, 2015)

Honestly bud, I wouldn't inject anything that has unidentifiables floating in it. Contact your source, tell them the problem and take it from there. You can start late, or switch to an end of cycle protocol.

Also, the Var can get you strong pretty fast. I'm sure you will already be pumped to the max for training so pay attention to your joints. They won't adapt to the strength increase like your muscles will.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 18, 2015)

Thank you for your concern mate, I appreciate it a lot. I actually just put the "faulty" one in the freezer and I put the "good" one in the fridge (I had 10000IU used 2 sterile vials).

I'm going to use the good one first and then go from there which will give me time to get more HCG.

I was going to ask about the var, I hope people can clear this one out for me. So I've seen 2 different sites on taking var, one saying keep blood levels stable (3 times a day), some say just take it all at once. I kind just want to take it all at once to be honest. Does it make a difference? How should I proceed.

Also, first pin done! I'm never been so nervous. It didn't go as smooth as I had hoped. After injecting and taking the needle out, a good amount of blood actually started to come out. I had to hold it with the swab for at least 2 minutes for it to stop, used 2 swabs, both entirely red with blood.

Is this normal? other than that the pain was manageable and no PIP yet, I just feel weird in my right quad which is where I injected but must be placebo.


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## HDH (May 19, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Thank you for your concern mate, I appreciate it a lot. I actually just put the "faulty" one in the freezer and I put the "good" one in the fridge (I had 10000IU used 2 sterile vials).
> 
> I'm going to use the good one first and then go from there which will give me time to get more HCG.
> 
> ...


Good thinking on the HCG.

=============

You might get mixed opinions on the var/oral dosing, I've done both and haven't noticed any difference. I like all taken pre workout. I'm running 100mg var and 35mg inj d-bol right now.

=============

Sounds bloody  

You may never have that problem again. I had it happen to me a few years back. Sounds like you went through a vein. I've had it bleed other times but just a run.

No worries.

H


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## PillarofBalance (May 20, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Thank you for your concern mate, I appreciate it a lot. I actually just put the "faulty" one in the freezer and I put the "good" one in the fridge (I had 10000IU used 2 sterile vials).
> 
> I'm going to use the good one first and then go from there which will give me time to get more HCG.
> 
> ...



Hey first pin here!!!

Welcome to the dark side brother - no turning back now!

The var thing people will argue about all day... Stable blood levels are over rated - especially for orals.  Reality is var is good for pumps and that's about it.  So take it pre workout. If I had to space it all out I would forget 2/3 of em... 

A little blood letting is no biggie.  Good for your crit and blood pressure


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 20, 2015)

Thank you all for your support.

Update:

1 day after injection and my quad is hurting a lot. It feels just like a heavy bruising. It hurts a lot when I walk. No lumps, no redness, not hot to the touch it just feels like a heavy bruise. I don't think I can inject in the quads again, I mean with this kind of pain I seriously can't do leg workouts. Are injections supposed to be so damn painful? It's so uncomfortable that people had asked me what happened to my leg cause I was limping.

I was thinking pinning medial delts this thursday with a 23G 1 inch. Is that ok? or maybe calfs? what site is the less painful? I just feel like pinning glutes is kinda awkward for me because you have to turn around and stuff I and want to have a clear view of where i'm pinning.

Also HCG first pin done today! went smooth as butter, zero pain, zero discomfort.

Am I still natty? XD

Honestly when I pinned monday, the placebo was real, I felt like a god lol


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 20, 2015)

HDH said:


> Good thinking on the HCG.
> 
> =============
> 
> ...



Hi there,

I'm only running 60mg a day for the first 4 weeks of my cycle, then I'll take 4 weeks off to let liver values go back to normal, and 4 more weeks on var to polish my gains and PCT.

Injectable D-bol???? Is it still A-17? toxic to liver or no? benefits vs oral D-bol? I actually really wanted d-bol as a kickstarter but was afraid of liver toxicity ;/


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## HDH (May 20, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm only running 60mg a day for the first 4 weeks of my cycle, then I'll take 4 weeks off to let liver values go back to normal, and 4 more weeks on var to polish my gains and PCT.
> 
> Injectable D-bol???? Is it still A-17? toxic to liver or no? benefits vs oral D-bol? I actually really wanted d-bol as a kickstarter but was afraid of liver toxicity ;/



I like the inj d-bol. You gotta have someone that is good at brewing though. 

It skips the first pass of the liver which is the most toxic. It's also a little stronger than oral for the same reason.

I like to run it longer than suggested as an oral so I use the inj.

====================

Yes sir, welcome to the dark side. Virgin muscles can be a bitch at first. Glutes and ventro glutes are your friend  

Just tell everyone you pulled something at the gym.

Always make sure you keep as steady as possible while injecting. Less movement = less tearing of the muscle. 

If you are moving while pushing the plunger, heat the oil a bit and it will go in easier.

Inject slowly.

It gets better.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 20, 2015)

HDH said:


> I like the inj d-bol. You gotta have someone that is good at brewing though.
> 
> It skips the first pass of the liver which is the most toxic. It's also a little stronger than oral for the same reason.
> 
> ...



Hi HDH, 

Do you know where I can find the difference between glutes and ventrogluteal injections? like a video would be great.


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## HDH (May 20, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Hi HDH,
> 
> Do you know where I can find the difference between glutes and ventrogluteal injections? like a video would be great.



Here's a simple one for the ventros, best place to pin-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_aW15NICiA

You can do it standing, just turn your hand around backwards.

I'll try to dig something up for the other.

H


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## HDH (May 20, 2015)

Here's a simple one for glutes-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYWmLP8OCKE

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 20, 2015)

Thank you so much HDH!


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## HDH (May 20, 2015)

No problem man. Lots of people here willing to help out.

Just ask away.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 21, 2015)

Day 2 after quad injection, I can't walk, the pain is so serious I had to take 600mg of Ibuprofen. It feels like my quads literally gave up, cant contract it but its not red or hot to the touch, just a bit swollen. I literally had to skip workout today, there was no way I could have gone with such pain. Quads, never again, jesus. Tomorrow is my next test E injection, will pin shoulders, I really really hope the PIP is not as extreme as quads, I cant be 100% at the gym if I have such extreme pain. Today when I woke up, I could not get out of bed, the movement involving getting up was so painful as barely managed to do it. 

It defeats the whole purpose of why I'm on cycle, the discomfort is so much that my workouts are suffering ;/


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## HDH (May 21, 2015)

I'll bet you have flu symptoms as well. That's some rough shit bud. Hopefully the gear your using isn't the problem. 

When you inject delts, make sure you are relaxed and don't tense or flex in the middle of pinning and make sure the pin is in place to push the plunger so you don't have to spin it around while it's in the muscle.

When ya gonna give glutes and ventros a try?

All fresh injection sites and can be a problem for some until you get used to it.

How many mls at one time?

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 21, 2015)

After my first injections, I have felt really tired in the mornings, not sure why. You think my gear is bad? I could tell your the UG brand if the rules are allowed.

I will either pin shoulders or ventrogluteal tomorrow, just need to do more research on the ventrogluteal later tonight, I've searched in youtube and there's no actual video of someone pinning ventrogluteal by themselfs, it's always like a nurse or something and a lot of the videos get glutes and ventroglutes confused.

Yea, i've heard of the "virgin muscles" but in case of my quad pain, this is extreme, I doubt anyone would pin quad if they get this kind of pain.

Just 1ml, 250MGs.

Thanks again.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 21, 2015)

Would you say this is a good video of the ventrogluteal site?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqps25XBj3I&feature=youtu.be


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## HDH (May 21, 2015)

It's a good vid because it shows the area you can inject instead of pinpointing one spot. Not everyone's sticks out like that though. You can actually hit it in more than just one spot. It's the initial injection that gets people, the unknown.

The vid I posted for you pinpoints one certain spot.

Post #28 in this thread.

=====================

If the gear is painful, it doesn't mean it's bad, it's how it's brewed. Some are better than others. Not sure on the lab names. Might be best to go over all the stickied rules.

That's what I would do if I had a question about them. Better safe than sorry.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 21, 2015)

HDH said:


> It's a good vid because it shows the area you can inject instead of pinpointing one spot. Not everyone's sticks out like that though. You can actually hit it in more than just one spot. It's the initial injection that gets people, the unknown.
> 
> The vid I posted for you pinpoints one certain spot.
> 
> ...



Hey there,

So today I tried to inject at the ventrogluteal site, started pinning and felt that I hit something, panicked immediately and took it out. Decided to go with shoulders. It's not hurting much at the moment but I have a feeling it's going to get bad after a couple of days. My quad is getting better, but there is no way I can do a leg workout this week which makes me really disappointed. It's still kinda swollen and doing a body squat is still very painful. I can't tell you the day i've missed workouts man, I rarely miss a planned workout, I just hope my delts don't get extreme PIP like my quads.

I really wanted to pin ventro's man, I just can't seem to find the right spot for ventro. Maybe I will try glutes monday.


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## HDH (May 22, 2015)

Which Vid did you use?

The one I posted shows an exact spot to pin. Just turn your hand around backwards to match the vid.

If you do it, there's nothing to hit.

Try the other side next.

Practice makes perfect :32 (17):

H


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## PillarofBalance (May 22, 2015)

Get to the gym and train legs. If you wanna run cycles you can't be a pussy about this stuff.  PIP can and will happen from time to time.

To minimize it:
Warm your vial under hot tap water for a couple min then draw and shoot.

Use a 25g 1" needle 

Stretch the muscle for 2 min 3 times per day if it knots up

Once you get in the gym and start working the leg it will loosen up and pain will lessen. Babying the leg will actually make it worse. You need to contract the muscle to get the fluid out.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 22, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Get to the gym and train legs. If you wanna run cycles you can't be a pussy about this stuff.  PIP can and will happen from time to time.
> 
> To minimize it:
> Warm your vial under hot tap water for a couple min then draw and shoot.
> ...




If I could train legs, I can assure I would 100%. It's been 5 days since my quad injection and the pain is still very prominent.I'm confident 100% that this is not normal, like I said if you had this kind of pain, I assure you you will not even think about doing legs, whole leg is reddish and swollen. I literally cannot contract my quad. PIP like this is definitely not normal, there is no way people would inject in quads if the pain was like this every time. I most definitely hit something in my quad or there's something wrong with my gear. I dont think I have a infection, I am extremely careful while doing injections, I actually swab the injection site 3 times just to make sure it's sterile. the spot where I injected is gone now, no lumps or anything but my entire quad is swollen and red. I think 3-4 days and the pain will become manageable.

Thursday I pinned shoulders instead, its been 1 day after injections and PIP is present. But compared to my quad PIP, shoulders are like 10% of the PIP of quad pain. I believe most definitely, this is the kind of PIP one should experience with "virgin muscles". Don't get me wrong, my shoulders still hurt, but I am still able to manage the pain and train unlike my quad PIP which literally disabled me for the first 2 days. Might inject right shoulder monday or perhaps glutes. I do not even want to think about pinning quads again.

HCG injections have been smooth as butter. Zero pain, zero everything.

Forgot to tell you, I've been pinning with 23's 1 inch for my gear injections. Perhaps that might be the problem? gauge too thick? I'm getting 25's 1 inch this week.


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## PillarofBalance (May 22, 2015)

I had some tren e that did that once. You could see the lump in my glute thru my pants. Wasn't able to contract my quads in any way at all. It was hilarious.  Shoot the source an email and let him know his stuff is crippling you. He might replace it. If he doesn't post up his name in the uncensored section and blast away. That's what it's for.

My guy replaced my shizzle in 2 days no questions asked.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 22, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> I had some tren e that did that once. You could see the lump in my glute thru my pants. Wasn't able to contract my quads in any way at all. It was hilarious.  Shoot the source an email and let him know his stuff is crippling you. He might replace it. If he doesn't post up his name in the uncensored section and blast away. That's what it's for.
> 
> My guy replaced my shizzle in 2 days no questions asked.



Hi there, thanks for responding,

The thing is though, I injected shoulders this time and the PIP was 90% better than my quad and no redness, at least yet. It only been 2 shots, so I'm still trying to figure out if the gear is the problem. Also, source is from Europe. Should have went domestic in hindsight. The positive thing is at least i'm learning a lot. I would do SO MUCH things differently if I had the change to go back lol. Oh well, you learn the most from your wrong doings


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## PillarofBalance (May 23, 2015)

Live and learn


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## HDH (May 23, 2015)

Do you think you could have injected between the muscle group and not directly into the muscle?

https://www.google.com/search?q=leg...About-Your-Bodys-Biggest-Muscle-Group;818;971

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 23, 2015)

I injected at the right of the rectus femoralis. about mid thigh.


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## HDH (May 23, 2015)

If your injecting 1ml at a time, try using a slin pin unless the oil is really thick. If you can heat it up and it seems kind of watery, a 28g should do the trick. You will want to inject slow even if you can go faster.

This will eliminate the deep muscle pain and be more at the surface so you don't drag your leg behind ya. Scar tissue can build up faster, or it seems to me, so use as many sites as possible but it will also give you more site choices.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 23, 2015)

HDH said:


> If your injecting 1ml at a time, try using a slin pin unless the oil is really thick. If you can heat it up and it seems kind of watery, a 28g should do the trick. You will want to inject slow even if you can go faster.
> 
> This will eliminate the deep muscle pain and be more at the surface so you don't drag your leg behind ya. Scar tissue can build up faster, or it seems to me, so use as many sites as possible but it will also give you more site choices.
> 
> H



I have slin pin 29gauge 0.5 inch length. How do I load test on slin pin? is that possible? ill try. Also with slin pins you are still injecting into the muscle right? cause half inch needle seems short.

My test actually looks already very watery at room temperature, ill go far as to say the consistency is the same as water. it doesnt look like olive oil or any kind of oil at all. perhaps using slin pins is better?


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## HDH (May 24, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> I have slin pin 29gauge 0.5 inch length. How do I load test on slin pin? is that possible? ill try. Also with slin pins you are still injecting into the muscle right? cause half inch needle seems short.
> 
> My test actually looks already very watery at room temperature, ill go far as to say the consistency is the same as water. it doesnt look like olive oil or any kind of oil at all. perhaps using slin pins is better?



I use em ED for oils, just short esters. You shouldn't have a problem with 1ml per inject. Only twice a week gives you a good bit of rotation compared to ED injects.

You load it up like any other pin and inject into the muscle. I wouldn't suggest any more than a ml being a short pin.

If it takes a long time to load, just heat the oil to thin it out. You can run the pin under hot water, with the cap on pin, just before you inject as well to keep it thin. Inject slow and smooth even if you can inject fast.

Does the oil have a swirl look to it when you move it around in the vial or in the pin?

How's the shoulder PIP?

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 24, 2015)

HDH said:


> I use em ED for oils, just short esters. You shouldn't have a problem with 1ml per inject. Only twice a week gives you a good bit of rotation compared to ED injects.
> 
> You load it up like any other pin and inject into the muscle. I wouldn't suggest any more than a ml being a short pin.
> 
> ...



I will definitely try slin pin on shoulder on my monday shot. What do you mean by swirl look? Don't really understand.

Shoulder PIP is not as bad as my quad but to kind of explain the level of pain, I usually like to sleep on my sides, I cant do it on the left side, the pressure on my shoulders makes it really painful. I dont think my injection technique is off, at least on shoulders. I'm really starting to think its the gear. I'm getting another domestic sourced gear that has been tested. Ill inject that when I get it and see if I get PIP. the only problem though is that the gear coming in is at 300mgs. How should I proceed? 

Lastly, do you guys always heat up your gear? perhaps that might be the problem? I inject in the morning, usually the vial is cold to the touch when I extract it. So I'm not sure. You know when people do their first cycle, they research a lot on the gear and what kind they want to use but we as beginners never expect or even think about the problems that might arise from injections, at least for me. I never thought I would had a problem with injections, did not put as much effort as researching for my cycle.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 24, 2015)

Update:

Face is getting oily, could anyone comment on what that might be?


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## PillarofBalance (May 24, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Update:
> 
> Face is getting oily, could anyone comment on what that might be?


It's called steroids. You now have a chance to relive your teenage years. Try jacking off to mom's jc penny underwear catalog.


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## HDH (May 24, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> I will definitely try slin pin on shoulder on my monday shot. What do you mean by swirl look? Don't really understand.
> 
> Shoulder PIP is not as bad as my quad but to kind of explain the level of pain, I usually like to sleep on my sides, I cant do it on the left side, the pressure on my shoulders makes it really painful. I dont think my injection technique is off, at least on shoulders. I'm really starting to think its the gear. I'm getting another domestic sourced gear that has been tested. Ill inject that when I get it and see if I get PIP. the only problem though is that the gear coming in is at 300mgs. How should I proceed?
> 
> Lastly, do you guys always heat up your gear? perhaps that might be the problem? I inject in the morning, usually the vial is cold to the touch when I extract it. So I'm not sure. You know when people do their first cycle, they research a lot on the gear and what kind they want to use but we as beginners never expect or even think about the problems that might arise from injections, at least for me. I never thought I would had a problem with injections, did not put as much effort as researching for my cycle.



When you hold the vial up to the light and move it around or swirl the bottle around, does the oil in the bottle look solid or more like something added in with the oil, like two different viscosities (heavy/light) swirling around together?

Some will brew with supersolvents added to the oil, ba and bb for a smoother injection. That could also explain it being thin. Some people don't have good reactions to it. That might be the case for you.

Just treat the new gear like the old gear and hopefully you won't have as much discomfort. When you get the new gear, try it right away. If the PIP is much smoother you can try mixing the old and new. Make sure you mix them in the pin really good so you dilute the rough stuff. You could even go down as far as 75% new and 25% old. Unless you could get something different from the source as Pillar has suggested.

I don't normally heat my gear but some fellas do. If you're having problems with pain or you feel like your pushing to hard on the pin and it moves around to much during the injection then by all means, heat it up. Some fellas swear by it.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 24, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> It's called steroids. You now have a chance to relive your teenage years. Try jacking off to mom's jc penny underwear catalog.




this guy, XD


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 24, 2015)

HDH said:


> When you hold the vial up to the light and move it around or swirl the bottle around, does the oil in the bottle look solid or more like something added in with the oil, like two different viscosities (heavy/light) swirling around together?
> 
> Some will brew with supersolvents added to the oil, ba and bb for a smoother injection. That could also explain it being thin. Some people don't have good reactions to it. That might be the case for you.
> 
> ...



To be honest, my gear looks totally uniform, I cannot distinguish any kind of 2 types of liquid inside. Its clear color with a very light yellow hue.

So it doesnt matter its 300mg right? extracting same pin is fine right? just change it when I pin. If my gear is not here monday, I will go ahead and try another unopened vial from the same batch. see how that goes.

Thanks


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## HDH (May 25, 2015)

You might have some luck with the slin pin. The only better inject site than the Ventros is the Ventros with a slin   

I can hit a few areas there easily.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 26, 2015)

HDH said:


> You might have some luck with the slin pin. The only better inject site than the Ventros is the Ventros with a slin
> 
> I can hit a few areas there easily.
> 
> H



I pinned my right shoulder with a 25G this time. Also heated up the oil nicely and the PIP is the same, now this time the pain somehow and I could not tell you why went to my biceps. So both shoulders and biceps have PIP lol.

I think I'm just gonna have to deal with this thing for the rest of my cycle. Lets hope my other test E coming in is better.


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## PillarofBalance (May 26, 2015)

Like I told you before contact the source!


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## HDH (May 27, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> I pinned my right shoulder with a 25G this time. Also heated up the oil nicely and the PIP is the same, now this time the pain somehow and I could not tell you why went to my biceps. So both shoulders and biceps have PIP lol.
> 
> I think I'm just gonna have to deal with this thing for the rest of my cycle. Lets hope my other test E coming in is better.


I thought you had slin pins?

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 27, 2015)

yea I had, I just wanted to try 25G. I was using 23G's before. Same thing, same pip. thursday will try slin on ventros probably, i'm still hesitant on ventros though, last time I pinned there I panicked and pulled out. I think I know the spot, but since is so close to the goddamn Hipbone, its a mental thing. gotta stop being a pussycat man lol

Update on my var: been taking 60mg for 1 week now, I do have noticed very nice pumps but I honestly would not say they where like AMAZINGLY good pumps as people would describe var is. I think the pills do contain Var, but probably not 60mg. Thinking of upping the dosage to 80mg honestly. Strengh is up A bit aswell, but nothing breathtaking.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 27, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Like I told you before contact the source!



Hey pillar,

I contacted him, he told me some people had complained about PIP on his product but he was specifically aware that is was his Test cyp  but I got Test E. He told me injecting quads is the worst part and should try shoulder or glutes.

Told me to get back to him after shoulders  injections. Will tell him PIP on shoulders is bad as well but I don't have high hopes that he will replace it or something. Will update


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 27, 2015)

Also curious:

Any of you guys running something?  I can't be the only one on cycle can I? ha


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## HDH (May 27, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Also curious:
> 
> Any of you guys running something?  I can't be the only one on cycle can I? ha



This-

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/17715-Diet-Training-Drugs

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 28, 2015)

HDH said:


> This-
> 
> https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/17715-Diet-Training-Drugs
> 
> H



Interesting! looks very complicated XD

Also, what kind of slin pin would you use to pin some test? 1ml 0.5 inch 29G?


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## DudeBudBro (May 28, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Interesting! looks very complicated XD
> 
> Also, what kind of slin pin would you use to pin some test? 1ml 0.5 inch 29G?



I bought those to pin my HCG. Wonder how easy it will be to get the oil in/out of a 29G pin. Curious as to how it will go.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 28, 2015)

Yea, me too. I initially thought slin pin where strickly for HGH and HCG but it turns out some people actually use slin for test injections. The extracting will be slow but I think some people like it better. I'm going to try slin pins for sure because as you may know, I'm experiencing extreme PIP with my test injections. perhaps injecting less deep with a smaller needle might decrease the PIP.


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## DudeBudBro (May 28, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Yea, me too. I initially thought slin pin where strickly for HGH and HCG but it turns out some people actually use slin for test injections. The extracting will be slow but I think some people like it better. I'm going to try slin pins for sure because as you may know, I'm experiencing extreme PIP with my test injections. perhaps injecting less deep with a smaller needle might decrease the PIP.



Let me know how it go's for sure. Tomorrow is my next injection and I assume yours as well. Where are you planning to jab with the slin pin?


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 28, 2015)

Will do. Yup! Thursday pin time for me as well. Shoulder for sure, it's my favorite spot as of now because its the only place where I can manage the PIP but that might change when I stop being a pussy and jab into ventros which is literally the best injection site by far based on the multitude of opinions of the veterans.

I might jab with the new Test E that is coming in soon, if I get it by Thursday I will go ahead in pin that.

Where are you jabbing? Glutes? No PIP?


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## DudeBudBro (May 28, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Where are you jabbing? Glutes? No PIP?



Correct, Just about to jab on my left side and get ready to head to the gym. I did the right side on Monday because I felt it would be easier for me to hit. I'm still nervous about sticking myself anywhere that's not my glutes. So for now I am just going to alternate between them until I get the confidence to try another spot. As for PIP it was minor if any really. After about 48 hours it was a tiny bit tender like when you have a bruise and poke it, but no visible bruising or redness.


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## HDH (May 28, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Interesting! looks very complicated XD
> 
> Also, what kind of slin pin would you use to pin some test? 1ml 0.5 inch 29G?



Just heat the oil, the extra time will be worth less pain. After loading the pin, run it under hot water to re heat.

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 28, 2015)

HDH said:


> Just heat the oil, the extra time will be worth less pain. After loading the pin, run it under hot water to re heat.
> 
> H



But what size of slin pins are you using? 0.5 inch, 1ml, 29G?


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 28, 2015)

I was referring to your cycle being complicated for me to understand XD


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## gymrat827 (May 28, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> But what size of slin pins are you using? 0.5 inch, 1ml, 29G?



no

he's talking a 23 or 25g.  

take the pin off the barrel, run it under the hottest water your bathroom sink will go for 3min.  then put a *fresh* pin on the barrel and hit it up.


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## HDH (May 28, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> But what size of slin pins are you using? 0.5 inch, 1ml, 29G?



It doesn't matter. The point is smaller pin size for less damage and surface pain as opposed to deep muscle pain.

H


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## HDH (May 28, 2015)

gymrat827 said:


> no
> 
> he's talking a 23 or 25g.
> 
> take the pin off the barrel, run it under the hottest water your bathroom sink will go for 3min.  then put a *fresh* pin on the barrel and hit it up.



He's got some gear that's tearing his ass up so I suggested a slin since he's only using 1ml injections so they don't go as deep and drag his leg behind him for a week. LOL

H


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## DudeBudBro (May 29, 2015)

Waiting to hear how todays pin went. Did you use the insulin syringe? did you get your new gear and just use a standard syringe?


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## Up'dMyCarbs (May 29, 2015)

Update! So today was my Pin day and was patiently waiting for my new test E to arrive. Waited till after noon and said fuk it, ain't waiting more so I went ahead and pinned 1.2CC on my shoulders again but this time with a slin pin. Heated the oil nicely, took a lot of time to extract the oil. Went ahead and pinned. ZERO pip at the moment, usually after pinning I get this feeling of soreness that I know its gonna give me PIP the next day but somehow with a slin pin I did not get that feeling. So right now I'm pretty PIP free. Will see tomorrow if it was just placebo. H idea of injecting less deep actually makes a lot of sense, I'm thinking the deeper I go, more damage to the muscle.

Also like 30 minutes after pinning I got my new TEST. LOL will try the new one Monday.


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## HDH (May 29, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> Update! So today was my Pin day and was patiently waiting for my new test E to arrive. Waited till after noon and said fuk it, ain't waiting more so I went ahead and pinned 1.2CC on my shoulders again but this time with a slin pin. Heated the oil nicely, took a lot of time to extract the oil. Went ahead and pinned. ZERO pip at the moment, usually after pinning I get this feeling of soreness that I know its gonna give me PIP the next day but somehow with a slin pin I did not get that feeling. So right now I'm pretty PIP free. Will see tomorrow if it was just placebo. H idea of injecting less deep actually makes a lot of sense, I'm thinking the deeper I go, more damage to the muscle.
> 
> Also like 30 minutes after pinning I got my new TEST. LOL will try the new one Monday.



Make sure you rotate good or the scar tissue will become apparent pretty quick.

You'll know it when it doesn't go in smooth and it feels like you are going through layers.

H


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## DudeBudBro (May 31, 2015)

HDH said:


> Make sure you rotate good or the scar tissue will become apparent pretty quick.
> 
> You'll know it when it doesn't go in smooth and it feels like you are going through layers.
> 
> H



By rotate good, do you mean not hitting the *EXACT* same spot? because I planned to just alternate between left and right glute. I was just hoping to kinda move around the glute and try to keep the spots fairly fresh each time.

Mr.Carbs, is the new Test-E you got from the same lab? if not it would suck starting with one lab and switching to another. Might not know which one is better. Waiting for your Monday update cycle brother!


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## PillarofBalance (May 31, 2015)

Dude - don't move around the glute too much or you will strike the sciatic nerve. Upper outer quadrant only.

You should practice hitting delts, quads, ventro glutes. In time you will turn those glutes into concrete with pinning. Not good. Trust me.


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## DudeBudBro (May 31, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Dude - don't move around the glute too much or you will strike the sciatic nerve. Upper outer quadrant only.
> 
> You should practice hitting delts, quads, ventro glutes. In time you will turn those glutes into concrete with pinning. Not good. Trust me.



Ok, I just watched a bunch of videos on ventro injections. I checked and mine seems to stick out enough that I can identify them fairly easily. Think I will give them a shot tomorrow. Just weird's me out being so close to a hip bone. I am terrified to hit quads, I've read so many posts of people getting crazy pain after pinning a quad. They put the fear in me!


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## Jayjay82 (May 31, 2015)

Not a bad cycle at all for starting you will see some great results with a good diet and workout plan also listen to all the feedback everyone is here to help you not hurt you. Good luck!


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## HDH (Jun 1, 2015)

DudeBudBro said:


> By rotate good, do you mean not hitting the *EXACT* same spot? because I planned to just alternate between left and right glute. I was just hoping to kinda move around the glute and try to keep the spots fairly fresh each time.
> 
> Mr.Carbs, is the new Test-E you got from the same lab? if not it would suck starting with one lab and switching to another. Might not know which one is better. Waiting for your Monday update cycle brother!



Plenty of spots to hit. It's always best to keep em rotated. 

H


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## NbleSavage (Jun 1, 2015)

Ventros, once you get past that initial fear, are the preferred spot by many. 

As suggested, alternating is optimal. I personally alternate between ventros, glutes and quads (I hit the side which for some reason results in less PIP for me).


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 1, 2015)

DudeBudBro said:


> By rotate good, do you mean not hitting the *EXACT* same spot? because I planned to just alternate between left and right glute. I was just hoping to kinda move around the glute and try to keep the spots fairly fresh each time.
> 
> Mr.Carbs, is the new Test-E you got from the same lab? if not it would suck starting with one lab and switching to another. Might not know which one is better. Waiting for your Monday update cycle brother!



Haha mr carbs, I like that name XD. I'm hoping to say exactly that when ppl start telling me u getting big (hopefully lol)

No, the new test E was from another lab, has been verified with bloodtest and labmax but I just bought 1 bottle of it. I do think both brands of Test E I have are legit. 

How's pinning going for you buddy? I'm still a pussy and it takes me literally forever to pin just 1 inch deep, I go so damn slow but at the end I still get it done ha.

Upped var to 80mg, been getting some freaky pumps, yesterday doing cardio I had to stop because of the calf pump so I say that at least I got some anavar in my pill hehe.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 1, 2015)

Jayjay82 said:


> Not a bad cycle at all for starting you will see some great results with a good diet and workout plan also listen to all the feedback everyone is here to help you not hurt you. Good luck!



Hey jay, 

Thank you for your words! Appreciate it. As I've said before, these guys helped me out a lot in tuning the details in my cycle. They also helped me greatly on unexpected problems just a PIP and pinning sites.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 1, 2015)

Update: Thursday pinning day. Manned up and pinned ventros with a 25G. Gotta say man, the entrance was not so smooth but as of now I have ZERO PIP. When I took out the pin, there was not even blood. usually I need to hold the site for a couple of seconds to stop the bleeding. But I gotta say, I am not 100% sure I hit ventros, I either hit ventros or the tensor fasciae. Either way, excited of this new site. Hopefully It won't give me PIP. Also this is the first time I inject with my new Test E vial from another brand.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 1, 2015)

Oops, I meant Monday pinning day. 

You can't edit your posts?


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## powermaster (Jun 1, 2015)

bronco said:


> I have never heard of taking an oral with grapefruit juice



I had heard of this and tried it but didn't notice any diff. Some meds state this as a warning do not take with grapefruit juice. I guess it could be true from medication


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## DudeBudBro (Jun 5, 2015)

Mr.Carbs, How did yesterday treat you? Liking the slin pins and new Test?


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## Fsuphisig (Jun 5, 2015)

im curious about the slin pins too cuz I have like 100 of them so it would be nice to not have to get new pins for my test


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 7, 2015)

DudeBudBro said:


> Mr.Carbs, How did yesterday treat you? Liking the slin pins and new Test?




Yea, I tried sub q injections. 0.5 ml per spot. smooth as butter, no pain. Monday I shot ventros. manageable PIP.


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## HDH (Jun 7, 2015)

The slin pin injections weren't meant for sub-q...

H


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 7, 2015)

HDH said:


> The slin pin injections weren't meant for sub-q...
> 
> H



I know I know, I usually pin shoulder with slin pins. Just wanted to try out Suq test injections because I was researching more about it and a lot of the ppl on TRT like SUQ injections since they pin little ml and not often. Zero scar tissue pinning sub q and the absorption rate is not slowed down if I read correctly.

Tell me your thought about it, just wanted to try it out, not necessarily going to exclusively pin sub q. I pinned ventros monday, its a great spot


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 30, 2015)

Bloods results came back. Test week 6 48hrs post injection at 600mg weekly, divided into 2 doses. Total test was 1719. I'm very dissapointed with this number to be honest. I've seen much higher results from other people that where on this brand of gear. 600mg weekly should give me at the very minimum 2500 right? Since this is my first cycle and I don't have anything else to compare it to, could I possible just be a low responder?

Really hoping someone could help me out understanding this numbers. Estradiol came back at around 50, and LSH <0.7 and LH <0.2 so i'm fully shutdown.


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## Fsuphisig (Jun 30, 2015)

Damn that's too bad


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## snake (Jun 30, 2015)

I would have expected a higher TT. I've tested over 1,100 on 300 mg/wk.


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## Beedeezy (Jun 30, 2015)

powermaster said:


> I had heard of this and tried it but didn't notice any diff. Some meds state this as a warning do not take with grapefruit juice. I guess it could be true from medication



It not just any grapefruit juice, but white grapefruit juice. It deals with enzymes and makes you absorb some medications better. It's a big thing that people who take opioids orally do to help increase their high with less drugs. 
No I'm am not a druggy, I work in the medical field. Emergency room to be exact.


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## Up'dMyCarbs (Jun 30, 2015)

snake said:


> I would have expected a higher TT. I've tested over 1,100 on 300 mg/wk.



I even pinned 1.2 cc last injection. Makes me really sad man. Could I be a non responder or it is more likely that the test is under dosed? I have no other cycles to compare it to so thats the main problem...


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## Fsuphisig (Jul 1, 2015)

Sounds like it's under dosed to me, talk to your source about your results see what they say.


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## snake (Jul 2, 2015)

Up'dMyCarbs said:


> I even pinned 1.2 cc last injection. Makes me really sad man. Could I be a non responder or it is more likely that the test is under dosed? I have no other cycles to compare it to so thats the main problem...



Everyone is different but on TRT as I am, once your nuts shut down and you're not taking anything for that, you're full TRT. Meaning the only thing you are getting is your dose and your body is not contributing. But most guys fall into a reasonable range. I'm going with you're stuff is under dosed more than a non-responder idea.


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