# 12w full ****ing blown + 16w of á hard diet.



## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Hey. New member here but not new in the game.  

I’m current looking for advices for my coming cycles. 

some thoughts and history.

First of all, I’m already done with kids and that stuff, so I don’t care about total-shoutdown. 

im always on testosterone. Blast and cruise. But my “cruises” is pretty high, I never going back to normal. My goals is high, I’m aiming for ifbb-title and doing everything in my power to became an Olympia competitor one day. 

I’ve always told my self that, is if my blood levels and tests, are in range and not destroying my health or getting more serious health-issues I will continue to prep, and prep pretty damn hard to my goals.


I have done a lot of cycles in the past, but I have started low as everyone else, until i get my
mind to be ifbb/ maybe a olympian some day. And because of my goals I never going back from blast n cruises. 

I have done 1 prep / comp so far, it have been going successful if we have done it right. But we did some gambling. I was “junior” at the time, but I met guys that was 10-25 years older than my self. I was first callout, between the winner and the guy who came third. And the winner was 5 years older, and the third guy was 10 y older . But when I later did my sidechest the judges put me back, and they were thought I was using synthol in my shoulders, but it was just scar issues. (Lesson learned) until upcoming competitions.

Now I’m coming from a diet, where I get pretty damn shredded to a solid 106.5kg / 234.5 pounds.

after that, I decided to cruise, and that where I’m at the moment. And going to cruise to like 1. January. There were I going to blast!!! And chasing maximum of growth for at least 12w and switch to a good proper hard diet for atleast 16w.

So, about the drugs. I love to test all kind of combinations, and dosages, to build up a good experience-panel. And that also including like stacking 2 different orals, with 2-3 injectables.

So, high doses and a few compounds, or low doses and more compounds, stacking orals, etc. for me it doesn’t matter. I’ve tested closely everything. 

My thoughts is like:
(my base is always 700mg prop +). 
v1-12 700mg prop. 

My blast to add in;
0.5 - 1ml sustanon ED.
750-1000mg nandrolone (think I’m going to test out the cyp ester.)
750-1000mg boldenone. (Think I’m going to test out the cyp ester.)

Orals: 
50mg of anadrol 
50mg of dbol, or 100mg of anavar.
also have a thought of 10mg halo 2-3x per week to bump up my strength trough the roof.

maybe also adding in low dose of insulin, before each meal, and maybe post workout. (Have been off insulin for about 2 years now.) 
- If insulin is added, I also adding in MK677. Dosen’t have cash for growth, and never had... but I wish.

maybe some proviron, and maybe t3.



after this, I switch to my diet, which till be something like :
(Diet protocol I haven’t figure it out yet)
350-700mg test prop.
500-750mg boldenone (u or cyp)
200-400mg of tren e.
350-450mg of tren a.

Orals in mind: 
Anadrol, Anavar, maybe winstrol. 

Low dose of DNP, clen. 

And after time, add in primobolan, (my vendor doesn’t have this atm because of COVID-19). But I hope he got it before I start the diet. And then I probably switch this against one of the tren esters, and add in primo for 5-600mg/w.

and don’t come here to say the doses is wild. Cause ifbb uses a lot. I have been had 2 trainers that is ifbb, and I have seen the prep-schedules by my self, and it is ALOT. And I also hear nick trigili out, and he is pretty open with his old drug uses.

thanks.


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## bvs (Nov 14, 2020)

Did I read that correctly, you cruise on 700mg of prop?


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## Jin (Nov 14, 2020)

So, how old are you kid?


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## Jin (Nov 14, 2020)

bvs said:


> Did I read that correctly, you cruise on 700mg of prop?



OP already instructed us not to “say the dose is wild”. And that’s not even his dose, that’s just his cruise. 

please abide by Mr. O’s wishes.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

I also want to add in, that my 3 best PRs are:
185kg bench.
300kg deadlift.
260kg squats.

Now i regular training more bodybuilding than for strength, because some injuries and so.

and if you guys want to see pictures of physique If you dub that I actually are this big, we can solve this, trough an mobile app called Wickr, or mail that called “ProtonMail”. Don’t know if you guys know much about these apps. Otherwise just download it, and I will keep you updated from there with pictures.

regards.


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## Jin (Nov 14, 2020)

Theterm said:


> I also want to add in, that my 3 best PRs are:
> 185kg bench.
> 300kg deadlift.
> 260kg squats.
> ...



Yeah, Send me noodz on wicker.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

bvs said:


> Did I read that correctly, you cruise on 700mg of prop?



Thats correct. And trust me, I know what I doing. If my blood levels or something else is pointing me to slow down, I do. Other than that, I prefer more to have an higher “cruise” dose, just because of my goals, and also not going 2 step forward (on cycle) and 1 step backwards (pct/cruise). And also here, prefer higher dose of cruise, so I just are in that stage that I “maintain” my mass, and moving forward at next blast, than going backwards, all the time.

So until my bloods are good, I’m fine.



Jin said:


> So, how old are you kid?



I’m actually just 25, but have been training from age of 15. And already from there, seriously, to learn how to doing proper squat, bench, dead. From age 20 I start cycle. And from 22 or so, I have been on blast and cruise.


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## Jin (Nov 14, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Thats correct. And trust me, I know what I doing. If my blood levels or something else is pointing me to slow down, I do. Other than that, I prefer more to have an higher “cruise” dose, just because of my goals, and also not going 2 step forward (on cycle) and 1 step backwards (pct/cruise). And also here, prefer higher dose of cruise, so I just are in that stage that I “maintain” my mass, and moving forward at next blast, than going backwards, all the time.
> 
> So until my bloods are good, I’m fine.
> 
> ...



So, how many kids do you have? “Done with kids and shit”

you don’t need 700mg of test to
maintain mass. I’ stay at 270 on 200 and I’m nothing special: just like you. Nothing special.


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## Sicwun88 (Nov 14, 2020)

Welcome to the underground!
That's a lot of drugs,
What's your age?
1ML of sus ed? Why?
Tell us more about your training?


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Jin said:


> So, how many kids do you have? “Done with kids and shit”
> 
> you don’t need 700mg of test to
> maintain mass. I’ stay at 270 on 200 and I’m nothing special: just like you. Nothing special.



I have 2 wonderful doughters. years 3,5 and 1,3 y old. They actually come on my blast and comp cycles, ofc with hcg and stuff that helped . But we are done with kids at this point.

Well, we are all different. If you like it that way, than good. Ofc I also think I can go down in the doses, that’s not the case. But I don’t see a point in it because all of my bloods etc are fine. 



Sicwun88 said:


> Welcome to the underground!
> That's a lot of drugs,
> What's your age?
> 1ML of sus ed? Why?
> Tell us more about your training?



Thanks. 

My age is 25, but before you scream, just add my Wickr or ProtonMail (posted above) and I can show my physique.

Sust is a blend, and if I anyway going on with my daily dose of prop, I could combine these two in the same shot (dosen’t actually matter for me).. Stable bloods more often you injects, and then you save your self to protect you from side effects.

Doses does not effect me at all, in the syringe, the thing is the shot with the needle, not the amount of oil in the syringe. So for example, if I going to shot a 5ml syringe , I prefer to shot it all out, than just load it with 2-3mls. If you feel me.

my training atm, is moderated training method copied from Patrick Tour, he training called “SST”.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Jin said:


> Yeah, Send me noodz on wicker.



You got messages.


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## stonetag (Nov 14, 2020)

Theterm said:


> I also want to add in, that my 3 best PRs are:
> 185kg bench.
> 300kg deadlift.
> 260kg squats.
> ...


Ugh......math! Welcome to the UG!


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

stonetag said:


> Ugh......math! Welcome to the UG!



Thanks.

Input anyone?


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## Deadhead (Nov 14, 2020)

Some things aint adding up, is english your second language?  Im thinking maybe thats why im haveing trouble deciphering some things? Also bloodwork is important,  but there are things bloodwork simply doesn't show.... like heart growth, leaky valves, and such things as kidney issues that can be very severe. Im not gonna bust your balls here, but even as an mr. O competeter those dosages are extreme, also multiple orals are imo not a smart or necessarily productive choice. If you stress your liver too much it can negatively effect your ability to intake food. All this aside, please post pictures so we can see what kind of physique this hard work and heavy use produces


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## The Phoenix (Nov 14, 2020)

Welcome to the UG. Look out Brandon & Phil; your days are numbered!


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> Some things aint adding up, is english your second language?  Im thinking maybe thats why im haveing trouble deciphering some things? Also bloodwork is important,  but there are things bloodwork simply doesn't show.... like heart growth, leaky valves, and such things as kidney issues that can be very severe. Im not gonna bust your balls here, but even as an mr. O competeter those dosages are extreme, also multiple orals are imo not a smart or necessarily productive choice. If you stress your liver too much it can negatively effect your ability to intake food. All this aside, please post pictures so we can see what kind of physique this hard work and heavy use produces



Yes exactly, my English is my second language. Maybe, but it can also be some of my issues with the grammar or stuff like that. Trying to make my best to be understood. 

Well I do know that just bloodwork doesn’t show exactly growth of my heart, or like that the liver have been bigger. But in normal cases it shows ofc in the bloodwork if something is wrong with the heart,or liver or such. But to answer your question, I have been check-up by my doc, with just my size of heart, liver, kidneys etc. it is all good.

and? You have trustworthy info about this? Do you know any friend or anything like that up in the top that have told you , or what? About the dosages I mean. If not, then how trustworthy is the information? Look at Dorian, and lee priest, they self are saying  like 500 test,400mg deca is the most they take, I mean come on. For real? Be realistic . 
I’ve self been talking to 2 ifbb pros . (Olympia) One in the 212 that is like taking dosages I just mention. And one in the open, is eating my dosages like ice cream. Trust me, I know. I have spoken to them in real life. 

About pictures, please read the message above, just tell me your nick name on “Wickr” or give me like a proton-mail address and I can give you and you can decide by ur self.

Thanks.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Welcome to the UG. Look out Brandon & Phil; your days are numbered!



Thanks for the welcome. But be serious in the thread, because that is what I look for, not a behavior like a kid... than just shut the **** up if you don’t have any better inputs. And let the thread be clean, thanks.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 14, 2020)

Nobody here wants to email a stranger to get his pics, or download an app just to see what u look like. 
You can upload pics here or put and imgur link, etc.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 14, 2020)

Indont care what you look like. All I know is you better have the genetics, finances, coaching and all the other variables that go into making a top level bodybuilder, to make risking your health worth it.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 14, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Thanks for the welcome. But be serious in the thread, because that is what I look for, not a behavior like a kid... than just shut the **** up if you don’t have any better inputs. And let the thread be clean, thanks.



Perhaps with a little sarcasm, but in all seriousness I do admit that anyone that is willing to step on the stage, I hope grows one day to be better than those guys. Nothing childish about that, just best of luck. If you were offended by my post, that was not my intention. Apologies


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Gibsonator said:


> Nobody here wants to email a stranger to get his pics, or download an app just to see what u look like.
> You can upload pics here or put and imgur link, etc.



Well, why should it be a problem? Don’t get it. First of all, both ProtonMail, and Wickr, is encrypted, so what so big deal? To either email or talk to a stranger if the chat anyhow is encrypted , make no sense at all. 

Second is, that I am from another country so why it is bother you? Anyhow. If we have been in the same country I could understand cuz abusing hormones is illegal. 

And third, I’m sending the pics, you don’t . So you guys just get it. 

So, if we should talk like you do, then I’m the one who should worrie about sending pic to strangers, don’t you think?  



Straight30weight said:


> Indont care what you look like. All I know is you better have the genetics, finances, coaching and all the other variables that go into making a top level bodybuilder, to make risking your health worth it.



Yeah, I know. Well some people near me, tell me I got some genetics, and right now, I wish I had finances, with like pharma growth, for example. I think that would be a real game changer for me, I have never tested it. 

and a “top bodybuilder” is my main goal / dream. And if it does come true, we’ll see, time will tell. It just a dream right now, but I’m working for it, and will never stop. And if that is good enough so I will reach my dreams, we’ll see. I can’t do anything about it, but my best, and trying to do whatever it takes. Like gambling, if you never bet, you will never win, right? Same right here, if I don’t believe in it, or “going for it”, it will never happen.  I will do my best, and at least try.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Perhaps with a little sarcasm, but in all seriousness I do admit that anyone that is willing to step on the stage, I hope grows one day to be better than those guys. Nothing childish about that, just best of luck. If you were offended by my post, that was not my intention. Apologies



Well I did understand that, but I were taking it like a big joke. Like “Phil, watch your back, now he comes.” Like it never would be true, and you could have right, we’ll see, probably everyone is saying the same, to become a top bodybuilder and all that, but if I don’t try, I will never make it happen, right?  so I try to do my best, and at least working for it.

That have been my motivation from day 1 since I  found the bodybuilding thing. 

so please, the topic is about to give me inputs in the cycles. Nothing else. 

I think I’ve answered to much questions now, at least I hope. So now, we can all go back to what this topic is about? Please? 

Give me opinions, inputs or what so ever.

Thanks


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## Deadhead (Nov 14, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Thanks for the welcome. But be serious in the thread, because that is what I look for, not a behavior like a kid... than just shut the **** up if you don’t have any better inputs. And let the thread be clean, thanks.


Haha, well looks like maybe your estrogen is a lil high... you wont fair well with that attitude around here.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> Haha, well looks like maybe your estrogen is a lil high... you wont fair well with that attitude around here.



Maybe a bit harsh, but come on. I want serious inputs than just pointless comments. Don’t you think? Else i haven’t been posted this thread at all.

And, my bloodwork just seems that my estrogen is in range level, so it’s fine. Thanks but no thank you  Maybe a bit high testosterone, yeah sure. But I can have good attitude ofc, I just found out the comment were totally pointless IMO.


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## Deadhead (Nov 14, 2020)

Idk about yall, but i find this thread to be,
 1- hard to interpret 
 2- leaning very heavily on the disrespect
 3- lacking in the most important info, ie; diet, training and such. 

I think ill take a back seat until i see how this plays out as I'm not sure any info i have to give is going to be well recieved.

Ill offer you some advice moving forward, be humble, always be willing to learn, and lastly be respectful. 

Most of us are here every day, posting reading and offering advice, humor is how we bond.

There is a lot of knowledge here, and some very good people. But respect is a must.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 14, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well I did understand that, but I were taking it like a big joke. Like “Phil, watch your back, now he comes.” Like it never would be true, and you could have right, we’ll see, probably everyone is saying the same, to become a top bodybuilder and all that, but if I don’t try, I will never make it happen, right?  so I try to do my best, and at least working for it.
> 
> That have been my motivation from day 1 since I  found the bodybuilding thing.
> 
> ...



Awesome. Well again welcome. This is a hearty  crowd here; don’t let them scare you. We are not a bad group, just a bad ass group. peace


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## brock8282 (Nov 14, 2020)

I’m jealous you can run that much orals. Even 50mg of anadrol pre workout only destroys my stomach within a week.

how far off is 236lbs from stage condition and how tall are you? If you want pm me your ProtonMail too. Just to add my 2 cents on the dosing, I too know some pro open class bodybuilders and your doses are quite a bit higher then there’s. People I know stick in the 2-3grams a week range. But certainly there’s pros out there who go higher and some who go lower. Depending on your height and how lean the 236 is, your doses may be overkill or they could simply be on the higher end, to each their own though, im not going to tell someone with experience and big ambitions what to do, your body your choices. 

personally I’d go on the lower end of that sust dosage and higher end on deca and eq. Maybe swap in or add some masteron for the estrogen management effect and neurological strength component it adds.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> Idk about yall, but i find this thread to be,
> 1- hard to interpret
> 2- leaning very heavily on the disrespect
> 3- lacking in the most important info, ie; diet, training and such.
> ...



Alright. Sorry for my earlier behavior than. I just wanted to have my thread for what it is, or like overall questions about age, training, diet, and so on. Everything related to training, and cycles etc are welcomed. But comment like that, doesn’t give me anything towards my upcoming cycle, or “learn anything new” as you stated. So the comment was pointless, that’s all. But I didn’t mean to be rude or something like that.

I will keep being humble, and of course I’m willing to learn from others with a lot more experience than my self, that is just welcoming for sure. 

The pictures by them own, shows for sure that my diet and training are on point. But anyhow, as I stated above, I have modified a training schedule by Patric tour, (he is training like Ian in the open, and Nicholas vollloid in the 212) with his program that is named “SST”. And since I have done that training, I feel like I growing like everyday. Honestly.

Besides my training, my diet is solid, but it is hard to answer on another language for me, all the kind of name of the different food, and so. Hope you understand that, because it is difficult. If you guys use DL or like “a cup” of rice for example. It’s way different in my language so to speak.

But my macros, are 450g protein, 350-500g carbs (depends someday I refill) but a normal day would be around 350-400 range. Fats is around 150g per day. Cals are between 5-6000 daily.

My weight at the moment are 116kg / 255 pounds. And a realistic goal I has, is to reach 260-270 pounds range within like 8-10% body fat.

Thanks sir.


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Awesome. Well again welcome. This is a hearty  crowd here; don’t let them scare you. We are not a bad group, just a bad ass group. peace



Haha alright. Sorry for my last comment mate. Have a nice day.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 14, 2020)

450 grams protein/day?! :32 (6):


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> I’m jealous you can run that much orals. Even 50mg of anadrol pre workout only destroys my stomach within a week.
> 
> how far off is 236lbs from stage condition and how tall are you? If you want pm me your ProtonMail too. Just to add my 2 cents on the dosing, I too know some pro open class bodybuilders and your doses are quite a bit higher then there’s. People I know stick in the 2-3grams a week range. But certainly there’s pros out there who go higher and some who go lower. Depending on your height and how lean the 236 is, your doses may be overkill or they could simply be on the higher end, to each their own though, im not going to tell someone with experience and big ambitions what to do, your body your choices.
> 
> personally I’d go on the lower end of that sust dosage and higher end on deca and eq. Maybe swap in or add some masteron for the estrogen management effect and neurological strength component it adds.



Tried to PM you the mail, but I must have been posted 20 posts or more to be able to get the PM function. So add me instead at theterm - at-ProtonMail.com - or theterm at Wickr. I prefer Wickr, faster and I can also send so many pictures I want to. It is limited by protonmail just with a few, like 3 or 4 photos only.

Well, I will don’t take a oral that is affecting my diet and my cals to get down, for sure. In a diet, it could be a plus though  I just feel it affect my stomach when the liver have been under stress for a longer period of time, than I could get that side effect. So sometimes I’m lucky, sometimes don’t. But if it do affect my appetite when I try to add mass, I lower the dosages or quit it, and try another oral for that matter. 

I will show you pictures,but at 235 pounds I was pretty shredded and lean. But now, since my “cruise” I’m up 20 pounds. Right now, 255 pounds. Not very lean, but still decent pump and strong veins in my tric, bic, some in the shoulders, forarms, and also some left on my stomach still, even if I’m a bit bloated, and swollen for that matter haha. 

well yeah ofc the dosages is different from person to person. As you say, a few maybe is around 2-2,5g range, and the other peeps is between 4-5g mark. 

So, you would bump the dosages of EQ and Nandro even more than a gram a week? And keep susta at like 0.5ml ED instead of 1ml ED? 

I where thinking about masteron actually. But to be honest i didn’t feel the E ester at all, maybe a bad brand so I should give it another shot, but P ester I have always respond good to. The thing with P is, that I have already my syringe full of test prop, and (probably susta) at that time, no space to fill. If not a bigger syringe than. But I also think, like masteron probably coming forward at the diet to.. pretty long time to be on the whole cycle of bulk/mass & diet. But if I give the E ester another shot, why not.. 

thanks for input


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## NbleSavage (Nov 14, 2020)

This is the most entertaining thread of the day.


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## BRICKS (Nov 14, 2020)

NbleSavage said:


> This is the most entertaining thread of the day.



Sounds like Hulksmash 2.0


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## Deadhead (Nov 14, 2020)

BRICKS said:


> Sounds like Hulksmash 2.0



I started to theorize that this is hulk smash comeing back to troll earlier... but didnt lol


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## Theterm (Nov 14, 2020)

Opinions ? Input? SHOOT!


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## Jin (Nov 14, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Opinions ? Input? SHOOT!



Not many (none of us?) guys here have experience running those kind of doses or have goals like you have. Since you have access to IFBB pros you might be better off seeking their advice. 

I am more interested in the training program you’ve previously mentioned. Can you tell us about it?


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## Deadhead (Nov 14, 2020)

Jin said:


> Not many (none of us?) guys here have experience running those kind of doses or have goals like you have. Since you have access to IFBB pros you might be better off seeking their advice.
> 
> I am more interested in the training program you’ve previously mentioned. Can you tell us about it?



Ill second that, imo those dosages are not actually efficacious to growing. They cause to much stress on the body. As with anything there is a point of diminished return.


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## snake (Nov 14, 2020)

NbleSavage said:


> This is the most entertaining thread of the day.





BRICKS said:


> Sounds like Hulksmash 2.0




I normally stop reading the New Member post as soon as the gear talk begins but I agree, this may get entertaining. Think I will just sit back and watch this one.

OP, I will offer you some general guidance and you can take it or leave it. UG's door is open to all new members, you don't have to kick it down, plus your reception may be better if you just humbly walk in. You have gone to great lengths to demonstrate that you're big and strong. Just remember this is a big pool you just entered and you will find some big/strong boys here in their prime.

 As for your English, don't worry too much about it. I live in the States and I'm hard to follow sometimes too.


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## brock8282 (Nov 15, 2020)

I too am interested to hear more about your training style. I’ve seen a bit of it from James hollingshead videos and he has really exploded since working with Tuor. Curious to see how you’ve modified it into your routine. 

also suprised you aren’t going with more of Patrick Tuors diet style. He really likes moderate protein, really high carb and low fat diets. My understanding is he puts fats down to about 40-60g a day and pushes protein down to 1-1.2g per pound. Then the rest is filled with carbs. I’ve done similar and it has brought very good results.


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## Deadhead (Nov 15, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> I too am interested to hear more about your training style. I’ve seen a bit of it from James hollingshead videos and he has really exploded since working with Tuor. Curious to see how you’ve modified it into your routine.
> 
> also suprised you aren’t going with more of Patrick Tuors diet style. He really likes moderate protein, really high carb and low fat diets. My understanding is he puts fats down to about 40-60g a day and pushes protein down to 1-1.2g per pound. Then the rest is filled with carbs. I’ve done similar and it has brought very good results.



The shed is a monster


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## Theterm (Nov 15, 2020)

Jin said:


> Not many (none of us?) guys here have experience running those kind of doses or have goals like you have. Since you have access to IFBB pros you might be better off seeking their advice.
> 
> I am more interested in the training program you’ve previously mentioned. Can you tell us about it?



Well, that’s why I posted the thread, just to see if anyone have inputs or not. I mean, I’m not full learned, and if someone of you guys have other experience (or knowledge that I maybe have missed.) please post it. We can never been 100% full learned. We learn each other anything new probably every day, closely. 

Well, I had. But right now I can’t afford the coaching for it, that’s why I seeking help over here, or at least discuss the subject and the results maybe turn out very good, who knows.

Well, about the training, Patric is going for maximum of pump, and also combined this with intensity. Now I mean, extreme intensity. So the program, called SST, is for hunting that pump, and lower the weight pretty extreme to have an nice form of the exercises. 

Anyhow, besides this, we aiming for the time frame, the intensity. So for an example, you are going to setup a weight (free choice of exercise) there you can do with a nice form, + closely as a maximum 10 rep in the first set. Then you have a timer on you, set it up for 20 secounds, and then keep pushing it, until you reach for about 4-5 reps, (to avoid injury)  then switch exercise.

My modified thing, is just that I keep 1 or 2 exercise there I going for strength reps, and trying to move a really heavy weight. And this setup, combined with the “SST” training style.

Like I stated, I feel like growing everyday, so I wish I had more like a “off-season” drugs in me right now and not just “cruise” then I probably had explode, hehe.


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## Theterm (Nov 15, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> Ill second that, imo those dosages are not actually efficacious to growing. They cause to much stress on the body. As with anything there is a point of diminished return.



Ok, roger that. I have posted the training system just above. 

So your pull is like, going for low dosages and multiple substances instead? I read a thread over here, a guy who took around 200-250mg blast of every injection possible, (test, mast, eq, tren and deca.) anyhow. Maybe some interesting to that though.


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## Theterm (Nov 15, 2020)

snake said:


> I normally stop reading the New Member post as soon as the gear talk begins but I agree, this may get entertaining. Think I will just sit back and watch this one.
> 
> OP, I will offer you some general guidance and you can take it or leave it. UG's door is open to all new members, you don't have to kick it down, plus your reception may be better if you just humbly walk in. You have gone to great lengths to demonstrate that you're big and strong. Just remember this is a big pool you just entered and you will find some big/strong boys here in their prime.
> 
> As for your English, don't worry too much about it. I live in the States and I'm hard to follow sometimes too.



Thanks brother. Appreciate that.


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## Theterm (Nov 15, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> I too am interested to hear more about your training style. I’ve seen a bit of it from James hollingshead videos and he has really exploded since working with Tuor. Curious to see how you’ve modified it into your routine.
> 
> also suprised you aren’t going with more of Patrick Tuors diet style. He really likes moderate protein, really high carb and low fat diets. My understanding is he puts fats down to about 40-60g a day and pushes protein down to 1-1.2g per pound. Then the rest is filled with carbs. I’ve done similar and it has brought very good results.



Well, I have posted it above. So you can have a checkup for it if you like. 

yeah, he is really a monster, that damn doug. 

Hm, gladly you asked for it, well I have had my thought on the diet to, but i just remind my self, that the protein must be skyrocket (I know, it maybe doesn’t) but I just think about the pros, like old legends like Ronnie, Jay, they were probably up for like 5-600g range of only the protein. I’m afraid to change something that is working for me maybe. Actually don’t know.

And with to much carbs I get even more bloated, so the answer I guess is there. If I had like growth in the system, it would be a game changer for sure, and probably not bloat me at all even if I went up to like 800g carbs a day.

I’m going to take it with me, and maybe trying it out when I try to chase the mass gain, and switch back to higher protein intake when I start my diet.


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## Theterm (Nov 17, 2020)

Anyone? My thought at the oral game, for the whole period of time, is something like: 
4w on, 6w off, 4w on. (In the entire offseason for 12w.) 
Then oral is out at week 14. Which sounds pretty good to also have 2 week range between the oils from off-season to the on season cycle. So the new oils kick in by the 2w overlap mark.

having break between w14-20 = 6w break for the liver from recover.

Then blast the last 8w of the diet, and here is the goal to reduce calories a lot, speed up the cardio game, and also breaking in DNP and such that period of time while I’m / my musclemass are protected by fast-acting steroids like orals. And cause of the earlier oral drugs, I just have my mind of like anavar here, maybe combined with tbol. (The two most safest orals, with minimal of sides, and damage for the liver.) think I will leave winstrol out of the game this time at the cut. Normally I always do var/win.

Sounds pretty solid, doesn’t it?

inputs?

Some inputs for the oils is also welcomed.


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## Theterm (Nov 17, 2020)

Come on, thought you guys would have some awesome ideas or inputs, but doesn’t look like it...


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## The Phoenix (Nov 18, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Anyone? My thought at the oral game, for the whole period of time, is something like:
> 4w on, 6w off, 4w on. (In the entire offseason for 12w.)
> Then oral is out at week 14. Which sounds pretty good to also have 2 week range between the oils from off-season to the on season cycle. So the new oils kick in by the 2w overlap mark.
> 
> ...



I take the orals @peak of a 14 week cycle for 1 month or 25 days.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 18, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Come on, thought you guys would have some awesome ideas or inputs, but doesn’t look like it...



Some of these guys are old (like me); just give them a little time to respond. LULZ


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## Gibsonator (Nov 18, 2020)




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## Straight30weight (Nov 18, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Opinions ? Input? SHOOT!



Surely with such lofty goals and drug use you must have a coach? A trainer?


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> I take the orals peak of a 14 week cycle for 1 month or 25 days.



Well, why do you just take the orals for 1 period of time the whole cycle? Liver will be recovered fast, so I don’t think it’s hurt for doing a optimal 3-4 runs dosages within the whole 28w of prep. 

After that, I’m going back to cruise, prob going to test a new thing and that is low dose prop with low dos mast prop. Did that before with very good results.


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Some of these guys are old (like me); just give them a little time to respond. LULZ



Haha alright . Thanks brother, appreciate it. I’m looking to get some discussions so I can decide my whole cycle, and start purchase the hormones. I’m going on this in the late dec (after I get the cash from work) or 1 jan


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

Straight30weight said:


> Surely with such lofty goals and drug use you must have a coach? A trainer?



I’ve been talking to a few IFBB’s for just guidance. They are to expensive to hire at the moment, because my wife is home with the kids and doesn’t work atm. So the money is a bit issue, not for the hormones though cause I have cooperations with a company so getting it for nice prices actually. 

The time i only hired á coach was the last 3w out of comp, because i don’t have the experience with all kind of diuretics, and manipulating of the salt, water intake and so on before stage. Besides this, I have coached my self all the time, with diets, and off-seasons and so on.

it’a not a rocket since to put in issue/mass, or either getting shredded. 

I just wanted to discuss my upcoming 28w of prep, if the dosages is critical and horrible, or if it’s pretty understandable because of my main goal; IFBB and upcoming Olympia athlete.


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## Jin (Nov 18, 2020)

If I were you. 

20 weeks. 
2.0g deca 
200mg test
weeks 8-14 dbol.

Then 8 weeks
700 tren ace 
200mg test 
oral finisher.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 18, 2020)

Not a pic posted yet, big talk and no walk. 
You've competed in 1 show and ur going to be an iffbb pro and compete in the Olympia soon?
Dude I'm not trying to knock ur goals or dreams but you sound like every kid with delusions or granger.
The guys winning pro shows to get to the Olympia are already elite.
Look at Nick Walker, you have to know who he is, just got his pro card, do you look anything like him??? That is the level now.
Shit man Regan had to compete in 3 shows back to back to get a win. Competition is real.
I don't agree with your cycles you've laid out at all and I don't care to argue why.
With all that being said, good luck.


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

Jin said:


> If I were you.
> 
> 20 weeks.
> 2.0g deca
> ...



Thanks for input. Now we start talking at least. And I get opinions which is always welcomed.

well, the prob is from this input, is that 2g deca with test, I would prob suffer from deca dick, I normally have like 2:1 test ratio, to avoid that. So to 500 deca I have 1g test and so on. But I def maybe consider this but with a bit higher test and maybe include masteron to get that “free test” in the body which will be a big plus to the sexdrive. Unfortunately my wife want to have sex a lot  otherwise i wouldn’t care.

tren, is horrible. I’m always getting that cough, always. And I doesn’t pin weird or wrong, actually better than some of my nurses at work, haha. So it’s something with my body and tren. That’s why I prefer tren e to avoid that cough so many times a week, if I doesn’t go for a comp. than I could suffer this side effect though.

Keep posting this inputs!!!!


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

Gibsonator said:


> Not a pic posted yet, big talk and no walk.
> You've competed in 1 show and ur going to be an iffbb pro and compete in the Olympia soon?
> Dude I'm not trying to knock ur goals or dreams but you sound like every kid with delusions or granger.
> The guys winning pro shows to get to the Olympia are already elite.
> ...



Well I have told you, just add my Wickr or ProtonMail, or so, so I can show you my physique. Or how I do otherwise. But I prefer to be anonymous at like Wickr or ProtonMail. My Wickr is theterm, and my ProtonMail is the same. ThetermATprotonmailDOTcom (I can’t post “links” because to low posts atm, hope u understood my mail address.)

Never stated that I would be pro now, or Olympia. I would dream to be an Olympia competitor before I die. And ifbb pro in the near future, well let’s say about 5-8 years, though I’m this young. The most of the bodybuilders are more successful in the most cases, in their early 30’s.

Thanks brother, appreciate it.


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## Jin (Nov 18, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Thanks for input. Now we start talking at least. And I get opinions which is always welcomed.
> 
> well, the prob is from this input, is that 2g deca with test, I would prob suffer from deca dick, I normally have like 2:1 test ratio, to avoid that. So to 500 deca I have 1g test and so on. But I def maybe consider this but with a bit higher test and maybe include masteron to get that “free test” in the body which will be a big plus to the sexdrive. Unfortunately my wife want to have sex a lot  otherwise i wouldn’t care.
> 
> ...





ratios with test/deca are just bro science. Nothing to back them up. I’ve ran a gram of deca with trt test and no issues. 

I don’t get tren cough but a nurse/bb on another board advised those who do to take a baby aspirin 20 minutes before injection. 




Sure, run some mast. That might help with ensuring sexual function too.


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## Robdjents (Nov 18, 2020)

Ok you posted your macros anyone can write 3 numbers down...what your diet "look like"....at 450 grams of protein a day im truly curious


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

Robdjents said:


> Ok you posted your macros anyone can write 3 numbers down...what your diet "look like"....at 450 grams of protein a day im truly curious



As i stated earlier, it kinda hard for me to explain all the different food cuz my English isn’t de best, and not my main language. It is my second. 

overall, I can type down a few things that i eat on a whole day: which I I know the English words/terms for.

20 eggs
6dl oatmeal 
1kg of chicken breasts
and 5dl (uncooked weight) white rice. 
6 bananas 
120g of “rice cookies” (unsure if this is right name in your country.) 
150g of good source, for bread.(like sandwich) Not the white unhealthy bread, it’s full of fibers, and good source of carbohydrates. + to this, I put on 100g of smaller / tiny chicken breasts . 

And a few more stuff .


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

Jin said:


> ratios with test/deca are just bro science. Nothing to back them up. I’ve ran a gram of deca with trt test and no issues.
> 
> I don’t get tren cough but a nurse/bb on another board advised those who do to take a baby aspirin 20 minutes before injection.
> 
> ...



I don’t mean the bro science bud, I mean my personally reaction to the deca. And with a wife that want much sex, I have seen how my dick have respond several times before when I have used deca. But libido usually is extreme for me if I add mast, so that would prob be a nice combo with lose dose of test with mast.

And just let the deca make the gains. What about bold? Should I put it in at 1g to? 

personally I want to have bold the whole prep,both my off-season and when it time to shreds... don’t want to do “either one of these periods”, because bold should be running for a long period of time, and than it would be pretty nice to have it the whole prep.

what’s your thought on this?


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## BigSwolePump (Nov 18, 2020)

That looks like a mild cycle. You will need much more if you want to end up like Dallas McCarver.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 18, 2020)

BigSwolePump said:


> That looks like a mild cycle. You will need much more if you want to end up like Dallas McCarver.



Dead or monstrous. He is both


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## DOOM (Nov 18, 2020)

Jin said:


> If I were you.
> 
> 20 weeks.
> 2.0g deca
> ...


Interesting how the word (prep) equates to complete Carte Blanche when it comes to running absurd amounts of gear for absurd durations.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 18, 2020)

DOOM said:


> Interesting how the word (prep) equates to complete Carte Blanche when it comes to running absurd amounts of gear for absurd durations.


As a wise man once said, there are no rules, only consequences


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## DOOM (Nov 18, 2020)

Straight30weight said:


> As a wise man once said, there are no rules, only consequences


I just find it funny. I meant no disrespect. 

 As an example you could have inspiring 25 year old running crazy amounts of gear won’t be judged if he’s prepping.

Then you could have 40 year old that’s been lifting and running gear for 20 years and still get judged for there dosages and durations for a simple 12 week cycle. 

This is by no means a reference to OP. It’s simply an observation.

I just think the double standard in amusing. Gotta love Bodybuilding!


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

BigSwolePump said:


> That looks like a mild cycle. You will need much more if you want to end up like Dallas McCarver.



Haha, well this is way to far the highest I’ve ever done. But I like to use my self as an experiment, see how much faster you actually grow consider higher amount of drugs, how I even react to the certain substance, and also the dosages. I have earlier run pretty high, but not like this. And I trying to achieve to became an IFBB one day, and before I die, hopefully I will enter that mr Olympia stage one day. Atleast my dream, and I keep chasing it, as everyone else dose with their dreams right. 

Dallas were pinned like 5cc of testosterone every day, like 10g per week. And also, besides testosterone he was also on tren, but as far I remember, it was a pretty unknown ester, wasn’t it? Not e/a or hex, or methyl tren. It was something else .

Do you have any inputs or suggestions to my upcoming cycle ?


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

DOOM said:


> I just find it funny. I meant no disrespect.
> 
> As an example you could have inspiring 25 year old running crazy amounts of gear won’t be judged if he’s prepping.
> 
> ...



Well I agree with you some of it. But also in my countrie, we are having a lot of discussions just about the dosages, each CC, and esters. 

An example, is like, the peeps in my countrie, doesn’t related like a dosages of 700mg (7cc) NPP a week, is “a hard dose” certain normally for experienced users ofc. But anyhow, if we change this, to 7cc/ml of deca instead of NPP, then they jumping trough the roof. And my question is why? It’s the same amount of CC. Only the esters that matters, and you getting a “higher” dose of the long acting one because of its half life, and is dosage higher. They don’t care about the CC, and just relating to the drug . For me, it’s the opposite, an abuser/addict  for me, is a guy who shot a lot of CC in the body, not a certain drug substance or ester. That’s what matter for me. Shouldn’t it be like that?

Why people getting angry if you asking for suggestions to a cycle that contain the same kind of CC, but different ester? They would say “go for the 700mg NPP” and the same CC to the deca they would say, “man, are you crazy that going to inject 1750mg of deca . “ simply don’t get it. It the same amount of CC.

Was just a thing I wanted to relive my thoughts and heart haha. And hope you guys understood my point.


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## brock8282 (Nov 18, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well I agree with you some of it. But also in my countrie, we are having a lot of discussions just about the dosages, each CC, and esters.
> 
> An example, is like, the peeps in my countrie, doesn’t related like a dosages of 700mg (7cc) NPP a week, is “a hard dose” certain normally for experienced users ofc. But anyhow, if we change this, to 7cc/ml of deca instead of NPP, then they jumping trough the roof. And my question is why? It’s the same amount of CC. Only the esters that matters, and you getting a “higher” dose of the long acting one because of its half life, and is dosage higher. They don’t care about the CC, and just relating to the drug . For me, it’s the opposite, an abuser/addict  for me, is a guy who shot a lot of CC in the body, not a certain drug substance or ester. That’s what matter for me. Shouldn’t it be like that?
> 
> ...



ok guys, I switched sides, this has to be a troll.


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## Jin (Nov 18, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well I agree with you some of it. But also in my countrie, we are having a lot of discussions just about the dosages, each CC, and esters.
> 
> An example, is like, the peeps in my countrie, doesn’t related like a dosages of 700mg (7cc) NPP a week, is “a hard dose” certain normally for experienced users ofc. But anyhow, if we change this, to 7cc/ml of deca instead of NPP, then they jumping trough the roof. And my question is why? It’s the same amount of CC. Only the esters that matters, and you getting a “higher” dose of the long acting one because of its half life, and is dosage higher. They don’t care about the CC, and just relating to the drug . For me, it’s the opposite, an abuser/addict  for me, is a guy who shot a lot of CC in the body, not a certain drug substance or ester. That’s what matter for me. Shouldn’t it be like that?
> 
> ...



the ester has an effect on how much compound per ml, but normally we don’t even factor that in. 

CC has nothing to do with anything. 

Compare total Mg per week. This is all that matters. 

Overall you place way too much importance on drugs. 

If you need that amount of steroids to achieve your goals you are overreaching your potential. IMO. 

Genetics, Training and diet are much more important factors than drugs.


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## Jin (Nov 18, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> ok guys, I switched sides, this has to be a troll.



Never underestimate human ignorance & delusion.


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> ok guys, I switched sides, this has to be a troll.


Well no, I am not a troll lol. I just speculate how we discussing things over here. For me personally I just have problems with that arguing but that’s maybe just me. My problem, is the amount of CC, not how many mgs I get in the body. And I also think, that it could be the extreme amounts of the CCs that could cause the bad sideeffect but that just a speculation. I just thinking normally, like, when the body tries to take up let’s say, extreme dose of like 30 CC a week, I feel damn sure that the body is reacting by the amount of CC’s, it’s get , not the amount of certain mg’s of the drugs these CC are holding. 

but as I say, just speculation. I’m maybe wrong. But for me personally atleast I don’t have an actually problem with the total/mg I get from an amount of CC in the body, it is the whole syringe with alot of CC that it’s the most irritating stuff to fix. Atleast for me... I wish it had been more higher dosage gear out there, I could easy inject my self with like 4cc each day, if it would give me highest amount of the certain drug, than 1/2 of the dosage just because I picjk another ester to the drug, but the CC remain the same.


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## Theterm (Nov 18, 2020)

Jin said:


> the ester has an effect on how much compound per ml, but normally we don’t even factor that in.
> 
> CC has nothing to do with anything.
> 
> ...



Thanks for input. Well, you maybe right. I don’t know. And we leave it . We all have different stories, and also different opinions about that. 

Now we focus on the thread thanks. The thread is soon up at 5 pages, and all I got is one only suggestion and opinion ?

The drugs is ofc very important. But the training and diet is the key to go. But without drugs, or without high dosages you won’t came near the pros. The pros are abusing and actually addicted. And that is also proved by a IFBB pro that is weigh closely 140kg/300pounds off, and like 120-125kg / around 277-280 SHREDDED were i spoken to. To be honest, he wanted me to jump
right into his prep-schedule, that was for about 25-30mk ew of different drugs. The 212 pro I talked to, is also near 20ml/cc mark a week. 

Nick trigili, also saying that. And he also stated, that it’s not a specify cycle who made him pro, absolutely not. It’s the total time length of the heavy steroid cycle who made him pro, and successful, over the years.


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## Deadhead (Nov 18, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well no, I am not a troll lol. I just speculate how we discussing things over here. For me personally I just have problems with that arguing but that’s maybe just me. My problem, is the amount of CC, not how many mgs I get in the body. And I also think, that it could be the extreme amounts of the CCs that could cause the bad sideeffect but that just a speculation. I just thinking normally, like, when the body tries to take up let’s say, extreme dose of like 30 CC a week, I feel damn sure that the body is reacting by the amount of CC’s, it’s get , not the amount of certain mg’s of the drugs these CC are holding.
> 
> but as I say, just speculation. I’m maybe wrong. But for me personally atleast I don’t have an actually problem with the total/mg I get from an amount of CC in the body, it is the whole syringe with alot of CC that it’s the most irritating stuff to fix. Atleast for me... I wish it had been more higher dosage gear out there, I could easy inject my self with like 4cc each day, if it would give me highest amount of the certain drug, than 1/2 of the dosage just because I picjk another ester to the drug, but the CC remain the same.



The ml or cc you speak of is just a carrier oil, you can have 100mg of test in a ml, or 400 in an ml. Therefore the amount of cc means nothing. And that is not an opinion.


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## Jin (Nov 18, 2020)

Look at pictures of Lee Priest or Ronnie Coleman or Kai green as teenagers. Those guys were amazing before they ever considered steroids. 

No amount of drugs will make up for natural gifts like that. 

You lack fundamental knowledge. You’re still talking in terms of cc per week. That only tells you volume, not dose. 

Facts aren’t opinions. 

You have enough posts to post up a picture. Let’s see if you have the genetics.


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## Deadhead (Nov 18, 2020)

Jin said:


> Look at pictures of Lee Priest or Ronnie Coleman or Kai green as teenagers. Those guys were amazing before they ever considered steroids.
> 
> No amount of drugs will make up for natural gifts like that.
> 
> ...



Yes, im intrigued now.


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## Jin (Nov 18, 2020)

Lee at 16 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Kai at 16


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## Deadhead (Nov 19, 2020)

Jin said:


> Lee at 16
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lee had some of the craziest genetics


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## Jin (Nov 19, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> Lee had some of the craziest genetics



If you believe what he says he still can’t get on trt these days because his natural levels are still way too high. Even after the steroid use. 

Could be that his body produces too much testosterone naturally.


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## Deadhead (Nov 19, 2020)

Jin said:


> If you believe what he says he still can’t get on trt these days because his natural levels are still way too high. Even after the steroid use.
> 
> Could be that his body produces too much testosterone naturally.



Very possible, i do know here recently he got pretty  shredded idk if hes maintained that. But hes still a very large guy for his height.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 19, 2020)

Jin said:


> Lee at 16
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is kind of my point. Cutler, Coleman, Lee, etc all looked like legit bodybuilders in their teens. If you don't have these genetics, you're wasting your life abusing massive amounts of steroids. You will never be an Olympia competitor. Fact. You need it all, God like genetics, the right diet, the right training. Sleep. Drugs. Slin. GH. It has to be your life. Plain and simple. 

If all that isn't in place, youre just not going to make it. By all means, bodybuilder. Compete. Love the sport. But don't kill yourself or put your health at severe risk. There's no payoff.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 19, 2020)

Shouldve seen me at 16 :32 (19):


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

https://ibb.co/XxLB4dc

these pic are from my comp, a few of them. Not all ofc. 
the 3 first pic of the abs, legs is like 2w out.

the fourth, and five pic, is also from off-season / maintain season. Current shape. Didn’t have windows to include all pictures in the same collage. So hope you guys can related to that.

the six and last pic, is my self at a clean physique, only after 1,5y training. Was hard to find that kind of old pictures. But wanted to find something just to show you the progress. 



https://ibb.co/rpCFcsd

All these picture is my current shape, just a few days old. And the most naked pic, is my evening shape with a filled gut, and ofc some swollen after an whole day of eating. I always train around lunch time, and my weight is than, 115-116kg, so at bed time I guess my weight must be more around 120kg.


https://ibb.co/cgvtBVG

These pic are from my last “hobby” diet, not an comp in the sight. Just to get a bit shredded. Come from an off-season here, and wanted to get down a few. Weight here was 106.5kg. There I stopped. Didn’t have the energy to keep pushing it, had to much in my personal life with some people that died, my family, I also studying more than 100%, a full time job . And besides that, I also work 100%. So the time was pretty limited and is still today.. until the studies are done. 

So here you guys got some progress pictures . 

hope the links are working. Tried my best.

All regards.


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

To in consideration , is also all the time I have spend to recovery, from injuries. And also 2 times surgery that required me to drop of all steroids, without pct, cold turkey. (The doc said so.) and also force to just chill from gym until the body have healed from surgery, non training at all, and this were 3 month each. So 6 month totally off, from gear and gym.

And smaller injuries . So in a total kind of time, we are spoking about maybe 2 years that I have spend to recovery, off time, and also off time from gear, cold turkey. And have been allowed to restarting my journey ... 

And at the moment I’m just 25. 

just wanted to make that clear.


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## Jin (Nov 19, 2020)

You look great man. Better than I’ve ever looked condition wise. 

I don’t see IFBB pro card in your future and definitely not the O. 

It is what it is.

In actuality I don’t know shit, but I thinks guys who do would share my opinions. 

Have fun with the lifestyle, keep
getting big, but at the end of the day, you’re not going to be making a living off this. So prioritize your health and family. 

Thanks for posting. Again, you’re a awesome shape. I just don’t see the genetic gifts.


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

Jin said:


> You look great man. Better than I’ve ever looked condition wise.
> 
> I don’t see IFBB pro card in your future and definitely not the O.
> 
> ...



Well thanks brother , I appreciate it. 

How can you be so sure about it? I haven’t also stated there I’m going to try to compete in the open division. I know there its probably impossible. But I’m thinking maybe 212 division , or classic physique or so. 

We’ll see. Kai self stating that he isn’t genetic freak, he is a hard working competitor, and that beats talent all day long. So I will don’t let you affect my thoughts about my dreams and so, many people have tried to. But I doing this, and I will try. If I don’t, I will never making it a reality . Like if you bet, if you don’t spend money you would never win there either, right? . You must believe in it, and struggle trough your goals .


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## Straight30weight (Nov 19, 2020)

Jin said:


> You look great man. Better than I’ve ever looked condition wise.
> 
> I don’t see IFBB pro card in your future and definitely not the O.
> 
> ...


I mirror these thoughts. You look good. Real good. Just try to be safe. Risk vs reward.....


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

Straight30weight said:


> I mirror these thoughts. You look good. Real good. Just try to be safe. Risk vs reward.....



Thanks bud, I appreciate it. I trying my best to, checking the body, the doc looks my heart, liver, kidneys size and such. And nothing yet. If it do show anything wrong with health, I stop. Until then, I try to get my dream a reality . That is also my “motivation” and “drive” at the gym, to actually working hard, focus on the diet, and all that. If I haven’t had goals, I probably had been allot of smaller, and doesn’t doing it like a lifestyle as it is right now... 

I think everyone that is trying to do the same path, is offering there health, if they aren’t gifted genetics freaks. All of them, aren’t . For sure. A few ofc. But a lot of them is abusing, and working real hard for their dreams....


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## Trump (Nov 19, 2020)

It’s the same with any sport, no amount of drugs or hard work will have me competing with Usain Bolt in the olympics. Without the genetics it ain’t happening. I think you look good enough to compete at a high standard though but I know as much about body building as I do about women, nothing!


----------



## Robdjents (Nov 19, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well thanks brother , I appreciate it.
> 
> How can you be so sure about it? I haven’t also stated there I’m going to try to compete in the open division. I know there its probably impossible. But I’m thinking maybe 212 division , or classic physique or so.
> 
> We’ll see. Kai self stating that he isn’t genetic freak, he is a hard working competitor, and that beats talent all day long. So I will don’t let you affect my thoughts about my dreams and so, many people have tried to. But I doing this, and I will try. If I don’t, I will never making it a reality . Like if you bet, if you don’t spend money you would never win there either, right? . You must believe in it, and struggle trough your goals .



Nice job so far you look better than alot of dudes here and waaaay better than me so take this for what it is but just because Kai said he doesn't have superior genetics means nothing.. he obviously has superior genetics.  I also think you are placing too much of this on the drugs...Its obvious you train hard and are very conditioned..imo you could cut the gear use in half and still yield the same results .but yea you look great dude


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## Deadhead (Nov 19, 2020)

You look very good, i still think you could look that good with half the gear, you could turn pro, pro cards are not nearly as hard to obtain as they used to be. But when you do u end up competing with the likes of this.... and that is when genetics really come into play. I wish you the best and hope you achieve everything you set out to.... and i hope you do so without impacting your future health, for your kids sake. Much love, i admire your drive.


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 19, 2020)

I personally really like the heart tattoo on the upper thigh and I was thinking maybe a hello kitty would be really cute to go next to it :32 (16):


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## Straight30weight (Nov 19, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Thanks bud, I appreciate it. I trying my best to, checking the body, the doc looks my heart, liver, kidneys size and such. And nothing yet. If it do show anything wrong with health, I stop. Until then, I try to get my dream a reality . That is also my “motivation” and “drive” at the gym, to actually working hard, focus on the diet, and all that. If I haven’t had goals, I probably had been allot of smaller, and doesn’t doing it like a lifestyle as it is right now...
> 
> I think everyone that is trying to do the same path, is offering there health, if they aren’t gifted genetics freaks. All of them, aren’t . For sure. A few ofc. But a lot of them is abusing, and working real hard for their dreams....



Can't disagree. I'm 43, not nearly as jacked as you, and I occasionally turn to the needle. I'm not blind to the fact that I risk my health but at the same time my doses are not very high. Nor are they often. Still a risk though. 

Youre a big boy, you obviously work for it and you have some big goals. Hope it pans out for you. Just be safe.


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

Trump said:


> It’s the same with any sport, no amount of drugs or hard work will have me competing with Usain Bolt in the olympics. Without the genetics it ain’t happening. I think you look good enough to compete at a high standard though but I know as much about body building as I do about women, nothing!



Well, we can discuss this all day long lol. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I absolutely think the possibilities are atleast higher, I’d you both doing good amount of drugs, and work real hard, and atleast trying to became one of the best in the sports, or just think “it never gonna happen” then you aren’t motivated either and think it is possible. And ofc just with that argument it getting a lot harder. 

Thanks though. I appreciate your opinion on my physique.


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## Jin (Nov 19, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well thanks brother , I appreciate it.
> 
> How can you be so sure about it? I haven’t also stated there I’m going to try to compete in the open division. I know there its probably impossible. But I’m thinking maybe 212 division , or classic physique or so.
> 
> We’ll see. Kai self stating that he isn’t genetic freak, he is a hard working competitor, and that beats talent all day long. So I will don’t let you affect my thoughts about my dreams and so, many people have tried to. But I doing this, and I will try. If I don’t, I will never making it a reality . Like if you bet, if you don’t spend money you would never win there either, right? . You must believe in it, and struggle trough your goals .





Go for it and see how far you can go if that’s what you want to do. 

But don’t think there won’t be a price to pay with your health.


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

Robdjents said:


> Nice job so far you look better than alot of dudes here and waaaay better than me so take this for what it is but just because Kai said he doesn't have superior genetics means nothing.. he obviously has superior genetics.  I also think you are placing too much of this on the drugs...Its obvious you train hard and are very conditioned..imo you could cut the gear use in half and still yield the same results .but yea you look great dude



Thank you brother, really. I appreciate it brother. 

Well, we can either believe him or not, if he is truly gifted genetic freak. He self says no, he is a hard worker, and hard work (together with a lot of abuse) will beat talent. If it’s true or not, I can’t answer. 

Well, ofc my last call, is the drugs, because my diet is on point. Training is also on point. Atleast at 85%. With a training partner it would prob be 110%, that push you at the gym. But yeah, overall, the training is good. So, my last call or what we could call it, my last “card” of the stack, is the drug protocol obviously that taking my physique to the next level. But it’s not worth it, or “everything”, the diet is first, second is training, and third is the drugs actually. 

And if I could use half amount of my gear and look the same, yeah I wound probably, but at what age? 35? I am 25 atm, so. And just a curious question, you actually don’t know my drug experience or such besides my cruise dose  hehe.


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> You look very good, i still think you could look that good with half the gear, you could turn pro, pro cards are not nearly as hard to obtain as they used to be. But when you do u end up competing with the likes of this.... and that is when genetics really come into play. I wish you the best and hope you achieve everything you set out to.... and i hope you do so without impacting your future health, for your kids sake. Much love, i admire your drive.
> View attachment 10835



Thanks brother i appricate it.. very much....

Well, hunter is in the big league, open division. And I know, for facts, that is out of game and dream. Then I would have my physique at maybe a old of 18-19, then maybe it have been a possibility. But as it is right now, if my dreams ever came true, it will be in classic physique or 212 division. And OFC it is harder to get there if you aren’t genetic freak, but I don’t everyone in the top is either. Not all of time, not even close. 

thanks for the care buddy. Really


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## Theterm (Nov 19, 2020)

Straight30weight said:


> Can't disagree. I'm 43, not nearly as jacked as you, and I occasionally turn to the needle. I'm not blind to the fact that I risk my health but at the same time my doses are not very high. Nor are they often. Still a risk though.
> 
> Youre a big boy, you obviously work for it and you have some big goals. Hope it pans out for you. Just be safe.




Thank you brother for your care, and all that. Really. Love to you brother. Thanks.


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## brock8282 (Nov 19, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Thanks brother i appricate it.. very much....
> 
> Well, hunter is in the big league, open division. And I know, for facts, that is out of game and dream. Then I would have my physique at maybe a old of 18-19, then maybe it have been a possibility. But as it is right now, if my dreams ever came true, it will be in classic physique or 212 division. And OFC it is harder to get there if you aren’t genetic freak, but I don’t everyone in the top is either. Not all of time, not even close.
> 
> thanks for the care buddy. Really



sorry bro, but you are too big to be a 212 competitor, I imagine you are taller then 5’5, 5’6. And you don’t have the lines/shape to be a classic physique competitor. 

embrace getting huge of bodybuilding is the dream.


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> sorry bro, but you are too big to be a 212 competitor, I imagine you are taller then 5’5, 5’6. And you don’t have the lines/shape to be a classic physique competitor.
> 
> embrace getting huge of bodybuilding is the dream.



Haha well I hope I’m not lol. Open is already out of discussion. I don’t have financial to try to, with growth and all that, synthol etc. only thing could help me out, is sponship, like after if I get my pro card.

Well I don’t know how you guys are saying in 5’5 etc. I am 176-178cm so I’m not very tall actually.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 20, 2020)

You don't think the guys in 212 use gh? Lol.
I don't think synthol is used much on the pro level, it kills definition so its counterproductive in the condition game.
178cm is 5'10"
212 competitors are usually around 5'5"


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

Gibsonator said:


> You don't think the guys in 212 use gh? Lol.
> I don't think synthol is used much on the pro level, it kills definition so its counterproductive in the condition game.
> 178cm is 5'10"
> 212 competitors are usually around 5'5"



lol ofc they do, but the difference between a 212 and open competitor are huge and nuts. It’s like a difference between like 50-60 pounds of muscles lol. They are shredded at 250-270, and 212 is just 212 lbs lol. 

and with that being said, you better have genetic, got the financials to use the kind of drugs and dosages that is necessary, higher intake of food, a good ifbb coach and all that. 

Oh, so they are like 170-172 cm? That short? We’ll time will tell. We will continue and work!!!! 

definition hides a bit because of synthol yeah, but how many in the top isn’t like that? Even in 212 division you see it. They aren’t that hard and shredded & have that “pump/power” veins like Ronnie. Just take a look at Phil, his definition on biceps vs Ronnie, it is on another level. Ahmad Ahmad in 212 division is the same, and so on. It’s actually pretty mixed, half of the competitiors got that hardness & shredded, and half of them doesn’t have that definition. And ofc, I look at the synthol question when the definition is gone.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 20, 2020)

If you can see the synthol then u ****ked up. You will be judged on that.
I follow bodybuilding closer than most guys here FYI.
Myself, I am just a tall jacked dude. 6'4 275lbs. I could never step on a pro stage. 
That's cool, I love the sportz the process as well as keeping my wife attracted to me.
Short story I know I don't have the genetics, I don't push the drugs.


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## brock8282 (Nov 20, 2020)

Try like 165cm


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

Gibsonator said:


> If you can see the synthol then u ****ked up. You will be judged on that.
> I follow bodybuilding closer than most guys here FYI.
> Myself, I am just a tall jacked dude. 6'4 275lbs. I could never step on a pro stage.
> That's cool, I love the sportz the process as well as keeping my wife attracted to me.
> Short story I know I don't have the genetics, I don't push the drugs.



Yeah, ofc they will judge on that. But I also don’t think they don’t give a **** when it’s about the top, and the best competition in the world. Ofc they know they are using it, but just try to hide it, if it’s to obviously they still will judge it. But if not, then they don’t care. And I also think that, if some of the definition getting lost because of it, they won’t judge it, because it’s not obviously that they are using it because of a few things that loosing the definition. Atleast that’s my thoughts. They are like that here in this country anyhow. The judges know, ofc, about drugs, synthol and such. But if you don’t show side effects, they don’t care and you don’t get judged.

Understand your point. Respect. 
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> Try like 165cm
> 
> View attachment 10860



Yeah, flex is looking awesome lol. But they are also in the late 30’s, closely 40 lol. I’ve 15 years to date, with hard work, and drugs abuse lol. Ofc it will take it to another level. But I don’t think I will be near Flex even then. But we’ll see. I will atleast working for it.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 20, 2020)

Flex is a freak, period.


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

So, i got an example in this thread, which where high dose deca, with low dose of test, I also include if so, low dose masteron, to provide libido issues.

it would be: as the example was like:
2g deca 
350mg prop, 350mg masteron prop.

Should i threw in 1g bold? Yea or no? I want to have eq the whole prep though, not only on the diet. Another example is to have an low dose EQ at the off-season together with all of that above, and i just higher the dose within the shreds period is starting.

else, I have read on other boards, and even here, that a few recommend high dose test with deca, if it’s off-season their were just saying “don’t bother for water weight, because you have already deca in there.”

And the results where:
2g sustanon
1g nandrolone 
1g bold.

This are two alternatives at the moment, in the next blast. I will figure out something more before I decide.

Edit: I know the doses is high, don’t comment. It’s a fast off-season for only 12w, I always have longer off-seasons just to have dosage a bit smaller. But now I coming from a cruise, and body fat is starting to rise, so I think I just have 12w to get maximum of growth, and then I’m going on a high doses, before I switch to a diet. And then rest.

Opinions?


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## Gibsonator (Nov 20, 2020)

Have you ran a gram test with a gram deca together? I think that's plenty to pack on some meat.
Add in an oral mid way and boom shakalakaa
I say pick one, deca or eq. Also, why test prop? Would make more sense to run e or c or even sust so you don't have to pin as often.


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## brock8282 (Nov 20, 2020)

I’d rather use the deca during the bulk phase and switch the deca for eq during the cut. I like switching compounds every 8-12 weeks. If you are simply after more anabolism I’d prefer to add in primo but i know sourcing is a problem right now for you. Personally I only like eq when dieting. Not sure why but eq makes me sluggish in a calorie surplus.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 20, 2020)

I would add, go with whatever Brock says, he is one of the most impressive guys here and knows his shit.


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

Gibsonator said:


> Have you ran a gram test with a gram deca together? I think that's plenty to pack on some meat.
> Add in an oral mid way and boom shakalakaa
> I say pick one, deca or eq. Also, why test prop? Would make more sense to run e or c or even sust so you don't have to pin as often.



yeah, that dose / combo is usually the most normal for me, to pack on mass when I have an off-season length for about 20w. But that time frame I don’t got right now when I coming from a cruise, and the body % is starting to rise.. I think I got max 12w then I’m pretty sure I’m a bit away from the “ok” shape standards, and must jump right into a shredd phase afterwards.

I like EQ, when it’s combined with either tren, or deca. It’s a good synergy with both of the 19ors, but don’t like it alone, specially when I don’t have the time frame.

you don’t think it’s a good go, to add in the EQ in the mix? 

Pinning Ed isn’t a issue for me, specially when it’s low dosages. Why I choose mast p and test prop, is just because of the half-lifes, so I don’t get any libido issues. If I choose this dosages and stack, it is my first one to have the test low besides a high dose of deca, and I want to protect the libido, lol.

My wife get pretty upset every time when I using deca because of the sexdrive, she want allot of sex, so that’s why always have using like 2:1 test/deca ratio before.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 20, 2020)

I have never had issues with deca but I also have never ran it over 800.
I usually run it same as text or test slightly above.
600 is the sweet spot I think.
I personally don't see the reason to run high doses of deca and eq at the same time, choose 1.
You keep saying your wife wants a lot of sex. Good. Give it to her buddy lol


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> I’d rather use the deca during the bulk phase and switch the deca for eq during the cut. I like switching compounds every 8-12 weeks. If you are simply after more anabolism I’d prefer to add in primo but i know sourcing is a problem right now for you. Personally I only like eq when dieting. Not sure why but eq makes me sluggish in a calorie surplus.



Thanks for input bud, appreciate it. Well, we discuss the bulk period now, and that’s why we have stated just deca. But I’m unsure if I’m going my old way with 2:1 ratio, or test low dose of test and higher dose deca one time and see how it ends. Nick trigili said that to, his best period of adding tissue was at 2g deca cycle.

I have always used EQ in both of my shredded phases and bulk. I like it as you said, more in a diet, if it’s a long time of a diet period. Now that isn’t the case, and I don’t like just 16w on a EQ even if it’s good, but I have personally seems some great improvements from the drug at 16w+ cycles, where it actually start to shine. So, for the whole prep (incl both bulk & shredd phase) EQ is good for that matter. And I also like how EQ actually synergy with either deca or tren.

I’m going to switch compounds this time at 12w mark. Besides EQ that is rolling the whole prep, is atleast my thoughts. 

During the bulk: 
test/mast dose for (libido only lol). Deca high dose for the main mass gainer. EQ at a moderate / low-high dose. Synergy with deca, and having it in the system at the background just to let it do his thing, build lean slowly steady gain.

During the cut:
Test, tren, eq and if my supplier getting in primo (big question because of COVID-19.) then I throw it in the mix as well.

So to clear; from the bulk/off, to my shredd period, I switch out deca - for tren, mast - for primo, keep the EQ still because of the length of the cycle, and also keep test, of course. 

And orals will ofc be added to.


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## Theterm (Nov 20, 2020)

Gibsonator said:


> I have never had issues with deca but I also have never ran it over 800.
> I usually run it same as text or test slightly above.
> 600 is the sweet spot I think.
> I personally don't see the reason to run high doses of deca and eq at the same time, choose 1.
> You keep saying your wife wants a lot of sex. Good. Give it to her buddy lol



Hm, alright . It will be my first time I going this high to. I just have my thought on the EQ because of the total length of cycle, plus, i like synergy between eq /deca and later on, eq/tren. either I just forget it, or it will be in the whole prep.

another theory is as I also stated, keep the dosage of EQ to an minimum in the off, and when diet start, I getting it higher. Going faster for the body to getting use of a substance when the dose getting higher / or changing, either than waiting until the substance kicks in. If it’s in the system at the off-season then the diet will be damn on fire to.. That’s why I have problem to just leave it out.




About the oral game; my thought is, to have it in the beginning of the off-season, and also as a ending period of the off-season . Havin a time off in the middle and some time afterwards before the new orals will be added through the shredded phase .


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## Deadhead (Nov 21, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Hm, alright . It will be my first time I going this high to. I just have my thought on the EQ because of the total length of cycle, plus, i like synergy between eq /deca and later on, eq/tren. either I just forget it, or it will be in the whole prep.
> 
> another theory is as I also stated, keep the dosage of EQ to an minimum in the off, and when diet start, I getting it higher. Going faster for the body to getting use of a substance when the dose getting higher / or changing, either than waiting until the substance kicks in. If it’s in the system at the off-season then the diet will be damn on fire to.. That’s why I have problem to just leave it out.
> 
> ...



I think, you should start a log for this and log your cycle dosages and diet and progress picks as you go.... i for one would be very interested to see the changes that happens at those dosages. It would be something a tad different from the norm for sure.


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## Theterm (Nov 21, 2020)

Deadhead said:


> I think, you should start a log for this and log your cycle dosages and diet and progress picks as you go.... i for one would be very interested to see the changes that happens at those dosages. It would be something a tad different from the norm for sure.



Well, i could have it in consideration and if it’s more people interested maybe I do. The bad thing, is that the log maybe won’t be 100% understandable because English is my second language. And you guys use different kind of terms of the name of exercises, type of food, amount of food (like rice, you guys saying cup right? And here we using DL.). For an example. But I could do my best, if it’s more people that in interesting to follow a log (I drive 3 different logs 24/7 at my main language though.)

I would love to, just to keeping my English language in track. Was about 8y ago I were using my English recently in the school lol.


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## Jin (Nov 21, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well, i could have it in consideration and if it’s more people interested maybe I do. The bad thing, is that the log maybe won’t be 100% understandable because English is my second language. And you guys use different kind of terms of the name of exercises, type of food, amount of food (like rice, you guys saying cup right? And here we using DL.). For an example. But I could do my best, if it’s more people that in interesting to follow a log (I drive 3 different logs 24/7 at my main language though.)
> 
> I would love to, just to keeping my English language in track. Was about 8y ago I were using my English recently in the school lol.



Your English is just fine. There’s been nothing confusing. Please, practice your English and keep a log.


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## CJ (Nov 21, 2020)

.......... Changed my mind.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 21, 2020)

Jin said:


> Your English is just fine. There’s been nothing confusing. Please, practice your English and keep a log.



Id read that log


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## Theterm (Nov 21, 2020)

Jin said:


> Your English is just fine. There’s been nothing confusing. Please, practice your English and keep a log.



Well thank you brother, appreciate it really.


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## Theterm (Nov 21, 2020)

CJ275 said:


> .......... Changed my mind.



I hate this lol. What was on your mind? Please share it.


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## Theterm (Nov 21, 2020)

Straight30weight said:


> Id read that log



Great to hear, maybe I’m going to start a log then. We’ll see how it ends.

First I just want a lot of different kind of suggestions and ideas for the oils in the coming bulk/off-season period.  that’s was my first point of starting this thread.

Soon 7 pages and only one input/suggestions. Come on peeps


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## Straight30weight (Nov 21, 2020)

I cant help you. I'm a gym rat, no goals of anything really. I just love lifting and dabbling in gear. I've only ran a gram a week once and it was multiple compounds. And there aren't many on here that run big cycles (but there are monsters here). Most of us CANT help you. 

So I dont know how much you'll get in terms of suggestions. Half the thread we thought you were a troll and the other half we're like shit, he actually is a big dude. Run a log and let us follow your progress.


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## brock8282 (Nov 21, 2020)

Given you are going to be on a cycle for atleast 28 weeks of probably do the bulk portion on a moderate am mount of gear so health doesn’t go to complete utter shit by the end and rely more on insulin and probably add mk since hgh isn’t an option right now, your insulin plan is solid, maybe consider adding long acting insulin lantus 1-2x per week on a day a weak body part is being trained(haven’t used this myself but this protocol seems to be one of the most logical uses of lantus to me). The addition of mk and insulin since you haven’t used it in a while should be enough to spark growth.


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## Theterm (Nov 22, 2020)

Straight30weight said:


> I cant help you. I'm a gym rat, no goals of anything really. I just love lifting and dabbling in gear. I've only ran a gram a week once and it was multiple compounds. And there aren't many on here that run big cycles (but there are monsters here). Most of us CANT help you.
> 
> So I dont know how much you'll get in terms of suggestions. Half the thread we thought you were a troll and the other half we're like shit, he actually is a big dude. Run a log and let us follow your progress.



Well, we could turn around the suggestions then, because you guys don’t think it’s enough with experience here on the board to help me out. And a few of you want to follow a log, then my question is ;

What gear do you guys seems most attractive to hear, and read about? And what dosages do you wish to read about in the log?  2g deca, with low dose of test, and 1g eq, or like 2g deca, 2g test etc, I’m speaking about the oils. 

orals/other stuff I’m already pretty sure about, and it will be : 2 rounds of 50mg anadrol + 50-100mg dbol. MK677 will be added and maybe peptide ghrp-6 if the orals is affecting my apitite. Fast + long acting insulin will be in there. Lantus and novorapid. Dosages will be 20-50iu lantus in the morning ( I successfully higher the dosages). Novorapid I have a thought to have 5-before my biggest meals and maybe 10iu postworkout.


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## Theterm (Nov 22, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> Given you are going to be on a cycle for atleast 28 weeks of probably do the bulk portion on a moderate am mount of gear so health doesn’t go to complete utter shit by the end and rely more on insulin and probably add mk since hgh isn’t an option right now, your insulin plan is solid, maybe consider adding long acting insulin lantus 1-2x per week on a day a weak body part is being trained(haven’t used this myself but this protocol seems to be one of the most logical uses of lantus to me). The addition of mk and insulin since you haven’t used it in a while should be enough to spark growth.



Thanks for input, ye lantus will be added in the morning. And fast acting insulin before meals and postworkout. I normally do that as you stated, more lower dosages with A LONGER off-season. And smash the dosages to provide muscle loss at the shredded phase. But as I said, I don’t got that time frame now, and want to add maximum of growth this time ON, and it’s only for 3 month, and then I guess the dosages must be turned up a bit. 

Can’t afford real gh at the moment so it will be MK677 and maybe a few peptides (ghrp2/6 + mod) that I already have in my freezer. This is a must if insulin will be added though.

My best growth phase I also had lantus, but I did insulin only without growth, and it’s there I think you get the “gh gut” because of all food + insulin dosages. So, if I ever adding in insulin again, I must have gh or something similar like peptides & mk. But I never did a lantus shot in the evening if you getting hypo through the night when I sleep with sleep medication... that will just be a nightmare. So if I going with lantus it will be just a shot in the morning, and combine it with fast acting.


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## Theterm (Nov 22, 2020)

What about DNP even off-season? And clen pwo? This will be on the shredded phase though. But just asking opinions at the off-season. I have seen Bostin Loyd taking the stuff in periods for a year straight, and his transform is pretty decent, even if he goes hard on the abuse, we can’t hide his progress transform though.


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## Theterm (Nov 23, 2020)

New image taken from yesterday workout. 

https://ibb.co/LNt7J3y

decent pump, and fullness. But this is what I meant, my body % start to rise a bit, that’s why I want just to have a quick off-season of 12w from start in January. And then I think body needs to be shredded.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 23, 2020)

Theterm said:


> New image taken from yesterday workout.
> 
> https://ibb.co/LNt7J3y
> 
> decent pump, and fullness. But this is what I meant, my body % start to rise a bit, that’s why I want just to have a quick off-season of 12w from start in January. And then I think body needs to be shredded.



Nice; you look like my old buddy Jason; is that you JT? LOL


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## Tatlifter (Nov 23, 2020)

Welcome champ


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## Theterm (Nov 23, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Nice; you look like my old buddy Jason; is that you JT? LOL



Haha lol. Maybe ..I maybe got a twin over here lol


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## Theterm (Nov 23, 2020)

Tatlifter said:


> Welcome champ



thanks brother. Appreciate it. Do you got any inputs of my upcoming prep? About the oils and so that have been stated earlier. Or a totally new input of suggestion is always also welcomed.


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 23, 2020)

You look good man, I'm sure you put in a ton of work to get to where you're at.

I don't have the kind of experience needed to comment intelligently on what you're trying to do.


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## Theterm (Nov 23, 2020)

CohibaRobusto said:


> You look good man, I'm sure you put in a ton of work to get to where you're at.
> 
> I don't have the kind of experience needed to comment intelligently on what you're trying to do.



Thank you brother. I appreciate it. 

Yeah, a lot of work, and dedication since day one. Special the dedication with the diet lol.

Well, alright. Even if you peep doesn’t have experience of higher dosages, than give just an input of how you have done it “If you were me”. And what you think is the right way to go.


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 23, 2020)

It would be such a joke for me to give you any lifting / AAS advice. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs, only 2 years into lifting, and I have the worst skinny man genetics you could ask for. I literally am just starting to look like a normal human male specimen after all this time.

My only advice would be to stick around, read some of the older threads, share some of your experience with others. We have a pretty cool community here. I think when you first posted this stuff, people were a little shocked by the dosages you were talking about. So you may not have received the typical warm reception people get here. You stuck it out though, and most guys would have told us to eff off by now. So it sounds like you need some people to talk to about this stuff. Get involved. Welcome.


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## Theterm (Nov 24, 2020)

CohibaRobusto said:


> It would be such a joke for me to give you any lifting / AAS advice. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs, only 2 years into lifting, and I have the worst skinny man genetics you could ask for. I literally am just starting to look like a normal human male specimen after all this time.
> 
> My only advice would be to stick around, read some of the older threads, share some of your experience with others. We have a pretty cool community here. I think when you first posted this stuff, people were a little shocked by the dosages you were talking about. So you may not have received the typical warm reception people get here. You stuck it out though, and most guys would have told us to eff off by now. So it sounds like you need some people to talk to about this stuff. Get involved. Welcome.



Well alright man. I understand you, but if you have been in my shoes, my determination to achieve my goals, my size etc. What should you voted for? High dose deca, and because of low dose test, throw in mid-high dose EQ, or going for a smaller amount of deca, + EQ, and alot of test instead?

Yeah, I’m looking into it. And have been doing this for years, on other boards and such too. But it’s not very common to see someone else is aiming as I do, and there for, either doesn’t pushing the dosages either.

Thank you brother.


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## brock8282 (Nov 24, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well alright man. I understand you, but if you have been in my shoes, my determination to achieve my goals, my size etc. What should you voted for? High dose deca, and because of low dose test, throw in mid-high dose EQ, or going for a smaller amount of deca, + EQ, and alot of test instead?
> 
> Yeah, I’m looking into it. And have been doing this for years, on other boards and such too. But it’s not very common to see someone else is aiming as I do, and there for, either doesn’t pushing the dosages either.
> 
> Thank you brother.



I mean the question is do you gain a lot of water retention and get negative side effects from high test? Do you really feel a noticeable difference between a medium dose of test and a high dose of test? The answer to those questions should guide your decision. If I didn’t have a lot of water retention from high test and actually felt a difference from pushing it higher then I would 100% always opt for high test.


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## Theterm (Nov 24, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> I mean the question is do you gain a lot of water retention and get negative side effects from high test? Do you really feel a noticeable difference between a medium dose of test and a high dose of test? The answer to those questions should guide your decision. If I didn’t have a lot of water retention from high test and actually felt a difference from pushing it higher then I would 100% always opt for high test.



Well, the negatives is the water I guess, and a bit of something that will help me heal/recover faster and joint support, my best off-season ever, is just high test, was my last one to. And I push the weight to around 285-290 lbs that time. But I were missing like a smooth of deca or something like that recover me faster and that is positive to my joints because of all strength I gained. But as I have said earlier, I like to get more experience, and test my self out with different drugs, dosages etc. that’s why I see some points in a high dose deca cycle, that making me curious. If the gains would be better than my last off-season or like similar. My only concern is the libido with the low test. Maybe adding in low dose of cialis (like viagra) that combat possible high blood pressure and ofc prevent libido problems also.

Or should my coin, be just high dose deca, and high dose test, and see were it goes and remove the EQ instead. That is also a possibility. As you can see, you can design a cycle on very different ways lol.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 24, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well, the negatives is the water I guess, and a bit of something that will help me heal/recover faster and joint support, my best off-season ever, is just high test, was my last one to. And I push the weight to around 285-290 lbs that time. But I were missing like a smooth of deca or something like that recover me faster and that is positive to my joints because of all strength I gained. But as I have said earlier, I like to get more experience, and test my self out with different drugs, dosages etc. that’s why I see some points in a high dose deca cycle, that making me curious. If the gains would be better than my last off-season or like similar. My only concern is the libido with the low test. Maybe adding in low dose of cialis (like viagra) that combat possible high blood pressure and ofc prevent libido problems also.
> 
> Or should my coin, be just high dose deca, and high dose test, and see were it goes and remove the EQ instead. That is also a possibility. As you can see, you can design a cycle on very different ways lol.



Agree. I heard that EQ & deca do basically the same thing so you can go with one over the other.


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## Theterm (Nov 24, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Agree. I heard that EQ & deca do basically the same thing so you can go with one over the other.



Well they are a way different because deca is more a watery gaining compound, (also with mass of course) and I ain’t saying that watery compound is bad, because the water is actually pretty good, and you can expect an strength gain from it. EQ is the opposite. (Like a steroid in the middle of a deca versus tren compound, like “a little of both” in a bottle) is my experience.. Anyhow, So the synergy is pretty good and solid. And the hunger from EQ is always a positive thing special in the off-season, and if you stacking it with orals that maybe affecting that area. 

I have run deca EQ before with good results, and also EQ with tren. So EQ overall is a good steroid that have a good synergy with closely all type of steroids.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 25, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Well they are a way different because deca is more a watery gaining compound, (also with mass of course) and I ain’t saying that watery compound is bad, because the water is actually pretty good, and you can expect an strength gain from it. EQ is the opposite. (Like a steroid in the middle of a deca versus tren compound, like “a little of both” in a bottle) is my experience.. Anyhow, So the synergy is pretty good and solid. And the hunger from EQ is always a positive thing special in the off-season, and if you stacking it with orals that maybe affecting that area.
> 
> I have run deca EQ before with good results, and also EQ with tren. So EQ overall is a good steroid that have a good synergy with closely all type of steroids.



I’ve ran deca/eq along with rest and anadrol (@peak) before and got good results too.


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## Theterm (Nov 25, 2020)

Yeah, I’m also going to include orals.

i’m thinking of :
w1-4 50mg of anadrol 
w1-2 50mg dbol 
w2-4 100mg dbol 

w4-8 off, rest 

w8-12 50mg anadrol 
w8-10 50mg dbol 
w10-12 100mg dbol. 

w13-18 off, rest 

w18-28 ON, shredded phase .  which would be 10w of an oral blast. Here is the diet/shredded phase and than I’m thinking of only anavar, maybe an anavar / tbol combo, the two of the saftest orals, with minimal of sides .

maybe switch the thoughts, but as I’ve written my oral game would be anything like this.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 25, 2020)

I always that anavar was one of the most toxic (or am I confusing with anadrol). I stick with dbol (one of the first) when I want to put on size. You’re what 5-10?  You’re pro’ly weighing around 240-250 based on your photo? I bet you put on some good size then shred out


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## Theterm (Nov 25, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> I always that anavar was one of the most toxic (or am I confusing with anadrol). I stick with dbol (one of the first) when I want to put on size. You’re what 5-10?  You’re pro’ly weighing around 240-250 based on your photo? I bet you put on some good size then shred out



i think you are a little bit confused, because anavar is named oxanadrolone while anadrol is named oxymetholne (some spelling could be wrong, but something like this is the real substances names of the two drugs, so ofc it’s pretty easy to be confused.) 

I don’t remember my height in that kind of term, but I’m like 176cm, and weight is 116kgs which is closely 250lbs if I remember right. 

my goal is to put on some serious tissue, that’s why I want to include the most of the drugs that actually adding the most tissues/mass. And within a timeframe of 12w, and then switch to a 16w diet/shredd phase.

and therefore I want to make an combo of anadrol and dbol to getting a serious adding of mass. But I’m also thinking of maybe anavar should be in the mix instead of either dbol or anadrol, and making a real transform and maybe could avoid some watery gain, as well. And include anavar both in both off-season and shred phase. That is also a thought I got in my mind. Lol. I love the hardness and pump I got on anavar, therefore it is a possibility to include it also at the off-season. But my con is maybe drol/dbol anyhow to add a real mass tissue.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 25, 2020)

Yes, I was right. Your size shows it. I am familiar with oxandrin (the general name for oxandralone) & oxymetholone. Those were my two fave orals about 8 years ago. No, i just try to stay lean but still good size on injectables only.


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## Theterm (Nov 26, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Yes, I was right. Your size shows it. I am familiar with oxandrin (the general name for oxandralone) & oxymetholone. Those were my two fave orals about 8 years ago. No, i just try to stay lean but still good size on injectables only.



Ahh, okey brother. Did you back then also included anavar in the off-season with a mix of oxys? 

Or should I mix all three, with minimal doses. Or would that be overkill maybe. Because I can’t decide lol.

Dbol, oxys feels like the way to go, for maximum of growth, but also, it will include a lot of water weight because of high dose deca as well.

My point is, If anavar would be included together with example masteron, I maybe would affect the water gain so good I could, (of course with a good diet to.) but I always get watery if the carbs is successfully increasing. 

a fast thought if mixing them all three, I was thinking like 50mg of oxys, 50mg of anavar, and 30-50mg of dbol. That must be a lot healthier than going for 100-150mg oxy with 50-100mg dbol combo, even if it’s three compounds.


Your opinion?


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## The Phoenix (Nov 26, 2020)

In 2014, I took tren-depot for slight cut & size with deca & eq for size, test400 and topped it off with anadrol. Was weight 200-205 (90kg/172.72cm) with some water retention.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 26, 2020)

Double post


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## Gibsonator (Nov 26, 2020)

Tren depot
Eq
Deca
Test400
Anadrol
To cut to 200 with water retention...
Sounds like a dope stack lol


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## Theterm (Nov 26, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> In 2014, I took tren-depot for slight cut & size with deca & eq for size, test400 and topped it off with anadrol. Was weight 200-205 (90kg/172.72cm) with some water retention.



Ah, okey brother. I don’t like deca/tren stack. I prefer them to have them each for their own. And instead stack it with other compounds, like tren EQ, deca EQ, and so on. I had higher expectations on a stack with 2 19nor, so I think I won’t run it again. But we’ll see. Maybe in future. I would think a better con would be to increase the dosage for the main compound like deca, or tren / eq, Instead of combine the two 19nors.


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## Theterm (Nov 26, 2020)

Gibsonator said:


> Tren depot
> Eq
> Deca
> Test400
> ...



Yeah agree but as I just posted, I don’t like the combination of 2 19nors. I prefer to have them for their own, and combine the one of them, with EQ. EQ has nice synergy with both of the 19nors.


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## Trump (Nov 26, 2020)

He was being sarcastic 



Theterm said:


> Yeah agree but as I just posted, I don’t like the combination of 2 19nors. I prefer to have them for their own, and combine the one of them, with EQ. EQ has nice synergy with both of the 19nors.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 26, 2020)

There’s a lot of Brits here so you’ll find a lot of that here, plus some wit.


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## Trump (Nov 26, 2020)

is there? thought there was only like 3 or 4 of us



The Phoenix said:


> There’s a lot of Brits here so you’ll find a lot of that here, plus some wit.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 26, 2020)

Trump said:


> is there? thought there was only like 3 or 4 of us



Yes I was referring to you and I love your wittiness. Unfortunately the real Trump doesn’t have that characteristic.


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## Theterm (Nov 27, 2020)

So, guys your opinions about the orals ?

Should I stick to dbol, and anadrol blasts, one in the beginning and one in the end before the shredd phase starts.

or should I test anavar in the off-season, stack with either dbol, or anadrol?

or mixing all of the three with low dosages, for example 50mg anadrol, 30-50mg dbol, 50-80mg anavar. (Let’s say 50mg anadrol, 30mg dbol and 70mg anavar, so we came up to like 150mg/day.) 

Even if it’s 3 different orals, if must be healthier that way than going for like 100mg anadrol and 50mg dbol or 100mg dbol / 50mg anadrol, so the total amount still will be max 150mg/day.

Why I got thoughts about anavar, is that I’m going for masteron, and it stacks well with anavar. And they both provide some of the watery gains from high dose deca, and the orals like dbol, and anadrol.

Also a question about dosage of mast, should I go for 350 just for libido, or should mast be 700mg/w, for anabolic, libido, and also provide a lot of water retention.


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## Theterm (Nov 29, 2020)

Up. Still interested at suggestoiins.


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## The Phoenix (Nov 29, 2020)

Theterm said:


> Up. Still interested at suggestoiins.



Either one  but since I am Old Skool, I would recommend the dbol since the adrol is a little harder on your liver.


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## Theterm (Dec 4, 2020)

The Phoenix said:


> Either one  but since I am Old Skool, I would recommend the dbol since the adrol is a little harder on your liver.



Ahh, okey. Not combine them? 

Thanks for input.

Anyone else with inputs?


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## Trump (Dec 4, 2020)

50mg of each 



Theterm said:


> Ahh, okey. Not combine them?
> 
> Thanks for input.
> 
> Anyone else with inputs?


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