# Am i doing something wrong?



## ouchie (Nov 16, 2012)

Ok I have been off my TRT for a few months, had no sex drive and started gaining weight back..... Two weeks ago, I started back on my TRT  (test cyp)  I wanted to kick it in to feel it quicker so i started off with 300 mg's the first week and this week i took 250 mg's.  In addition to the test cyp.. I have taken 25mg's of clomid also.......Ok ...So far I got nothin... Sex drive has not changed, Although maybe it hasnt been long enough.. Also I read that clomid would produce a huge "load" well um, nothing special in that department either...So am i doing something wrong? All i know is that when i was on trt in the past, I had a great attitude, looked sharp, felt sharp and was ready to go in the bedroom 24/7.  Im not feeling that now, yet.... Should i not be taking clomid while on test? should that be for post cycle only?


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## Times Roman (Nov 16, 2012)

are you taking test e or c?
if so, it could take up to a month for noticeable effects
blood checked lately?  how's your e?
I'm not worry about my 'loads" as I'm not trying to put out any fires, so can't help you with that.

I'd suggest waiting two more weeks and report back.....

Good luck!


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## NbleSavage (Nov 16, 2012)

Agree with Roman. Long ester Test could take 3-4 weeks to kick. Also may want to get bloods done to see if your E2 has spiked (I had a similar issue a while back stemming from a bad batch of Aromasin). 

Hang in there, Mate.


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## Illtemper (Nov 16, 2012)

you aint doing nothing wrong you just need some prop so it kicks in faster!!    

why did you go off TRT in the first place if you were doing so well??


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## DF (Nov 16, 2012)

What the bros said brother


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## pirovoliko (Nov 16, 2012)

Why did you go off TRT?  Also it seems like regardless, you need bloods at this point to see where your test levels are and go from there.  .


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## Four1Thr33 (Nov 16, 2012)

Just so u know.. Taking 300 one week and 250 the next is so small a dose increase I personally don't think it will do to much in the "faster feel" department 
For a normal cycle, this process is called front loading and it is nornally done when taking a long ester like test C and E 
Lets just go with your number of 250 a week u want to run.  That would be 125mg 2x a week
You would simply double the weeky dosage on your first pin of the cycle 
Example
500mg pin one and 125 pin two totaling 625 MG in first week
At this point u would just continue to 125mg shots

But... Not knowing history or stats off hand or why u are on or off trt I dot want to recommend anything to u yet

Just some education


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## Cashout (Nov 16, 2012)

Both forms of test you mentioned administering have peek release windows within 38 hours of a depot injection so it is very likely that you have test levels well above the normal upper bound of the scale at this point.

Going forward, administer only your prescribed TRT dosage on your prescribed schedule.

Clomid would not be necessary while on TRT. I am surprised that your physician prescribed that as part of your protocol.

Remember, the HPTA is like a set of interconnected gears. You have turned only on by administering test. As that gear turns, others gears in the the HPTA will also turn but in different ratios and as such in differing degrees. Suffice it to say that you cannot expect to feel "wonderful" after merely two weeks of supraphysiological injections of test.


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## ouchie (Nov 16, 2012)

Great Info... thank you!!!. I am pinning test C and the reason I stopped the TRT in the first place was out of my control.  I *did not* want to stop..  I added the clomid (not the doc) after reading a thread here that it stopped testicle shrinkage... I will report that those are back to full normal size!!! That def. worked!.. That much is completely obvious.. As far as "load size" I read that here from a couple of posters after taking clomid.. The difference was that they were using clomid post trt..


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## Four1Thr33 (Nov 16, 2012)

I would use HCG for testicular atrophy    Not really familiar with people useing clomid for that reason


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## 69nites (Nov 16, 2012)

Four1Thr33 said:


> I would use HCG for testicular atrophy    Not really familiar with people useing clomid for that reason


Are you familiar with clomid's use as a fertility drug in men?


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## Four1Thr33 (Nov 16, 2012)

Not anything more then google stuff and thy I got someone prego taking clomid


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## ouchie (Nov 18, 2012)

My friend is going to a trt clinic and they are prescribing him hcg and Nolvadex, In addition to test c.  I dont know about long term, but so far, the clomid has stopped my testicular atrophy. I have noticed also that i do not have body acne like i have for the past two years that i have been on Test c alone. This could be as a result of the clomid or it could be that the test c has not had a full chance to get going in my system yet. However, i am starting to see and feel like its coming on again. Mainly i wanted the clomid to stop the DHT conversion.  Cashout... I do value your opinion and if you think the clomid is not necessary, then i can drop it from my regiment, This week will be week 3 back on trt and i will be taking a normal sized injection..


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## TheGenuineArt (Nov 19, 2012)

ouchie said:


> My friend is going to a trt clinic and they are prescribing him hcg and Nolvadex, In addition to test c.  I dont know about long term, but so far, the clomid has stopped my testicular atrophy. I have noticed also that i do not have body acne like i have for the past two years that i have been on Test c alone. This could be as a result of the clomid or it could be that the test c has not had a full chance to get going in my system yet. However, i am starting to see and feel like its coming on again. Mainly i wanted the clomid to stop the DHT conversion.  Cashout... I do value your opinion and if you think the clomid is not necessary, then i can drop it from my regiment, This week will be week 3 back on trt and i will be taking a normal sized injection..



A clinic is prescribing your friend test c, nolvadex, and hcg? Are they thinking that the nolvadex is going to reduce circulating estrogen in the body? It won't, but it will keep gyno down since it blocks E2 receptors in breast tissue. Then again with a properly administered AI there shouldnt be any gyno development as well. 

Clomid probably won't do much for reducing estradiol or keeping testosterone from converting to DHT. Additionally clomid should not keep your testicles from atrophying while on testosterone like hcg will which is a more direct alternative of LH. While on exogenous testosterone the clomid will be ineffective at tricking your hypothalamus to secrete GNRH and your pituitary to secrete LH and FSH. Essentially there will be too much serum testosterone in your system for your HPTA to be manipulated and therefore produce more sex hormones over what has already been administered by the shots. The pituitary cannot tell the difference between testosterone and estradiol and clomid blocks estradiol receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary. Therefore if the body feels not enough estrogen is present the body makes more testosterone which is later converted or aromatized into a healthy level of estrogen that the body requires and the messenger hormones LH and FSH are reduced by the pituitary. If you block these E2 receptors with clomid the uninhibited release of FSH and LH signaling lead to increased testosterone and perhaps increased sperm count. So if you are concerned about testicle consistency and size administer small doses of HCG, but realize it often leads to increased E2 and the need for an AI with proper dosing as well. It can be a very individualistic thing as to who readily aromatizes from HCG and who does not. Hope this helps... ( can become a fairly tricky endeavor to balance three compounds)


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## ouchie (Nov 22, 2012)

TheGenuineArt said:


> A clinic is prescribing your friend test c, nolvadex, and hcg? Are they thinking that the nolvadex is going to reduce circulating estrogen in the body? It won't, but it will keep gyno down since it blocks E2 receptors in breast tissue. Then again with a properly administered AI there shouldnt be any gyno development as well.
> 
> Clomid probably won't do much for reducing estradiol or keeping testosterone from converting to DHT. Additionally clomid should not keep your testicles from atrophying while on testosterone like hcg will which is a more direct alternative of LH. While on exogenous testosterone the clomid will be ineffective at tricking your hypothalamus to secrete GNRH and your pituitary to secrete LH and FSH. Essentially there will be too much serum testosterone in your system for your HPTA to be manipulated and therefore produce more sex hormones over what has already been administered by the shots. The pituitary cannot tell the difference between testosterone and estradiol and clomid blocks estradiol receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary. Therefore if the body feels not enough estrogen is present the body makes more testosterone which is later converted or aromatized into a healthy level of estrogen that the body requires and the messenger hormones LH and FSH are reduced by the pituitary. If you block these E2 receptors with clomid the uninhibited release of FSH and LH signaling lead to increased testosterone and perhaps increased sperm count. So if you are concerned about testicle consistency and size administer small doses of HCG, but realize it often leads to increased E2 and the need for an AI with proper dosing as well. It can be a very individualistic thing as to who readily aromatizes from HCG and who does not. Hope this helps... ( can become a fairly tricky endeavor to balance three compounds)




 Wow. Thank you for the post! I was not aware that the body primarily made its estrogen by converting test. I thought that this was only a side effect that got us into trouble when taking too much test.... So here is my next and final question.... Do i even need to take an estrogen blocker at 250mg's per week??  If so, which would be the best one?


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## DF (Nov 22, 2012)

You may not need an AI at that dose.  The only way to know for sure is blood work.  As far as the best AI Aromasin is usually the one to start with.  The dose on that is usually 12.5 possibly eod.  Again blood work will let you know for sure.


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## transcend2007 (Nov 23, 2012)

I agree with what's been said so far.  I would add that body acne will likely take another month or 2.  Controlling your e certainly can be benefical but if you're prone its a side effect of higher t (I also struggle with it).



ouchie said:


> My friend is going to a trt clinic and they are prescribing him hcg and Nolvadex, In addition to test c.  I dont know about long term, but so far, the clomid has stopped my testicular atrophy. *I have noticed also that i do not have body acne like i have for the past two years that i have been on Test c alone.* This could be as a result of the clomid or it could be that the test c has not had a full chance to get going in my system yet. However, i am starting to see and feel like its coming on again. Mainly i wanted the clomid to stop the DHT conversion.  Cashout... I do value your opinion and if you think the clomid is not necessary, then i can drop it from my regiment, This week will be week 3 back on trt and i will be taking a normal sized injection..


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## ouchie (Nov 26, 2012)

Guys, I should have waited to run this thread because now, i am feeling like my good ol self again... I certainly can tell now the test level is back up again.. I am going to get some blood work done after another week or so, In the meantime, I wont be taking the clomid (thank you everyone for that info) and if i have any alarming blood work numbers, you can bet i will be back here with questions...


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## BigFella (Nov 26, 2012)

Good luck ouchie. Keep it stable for a month or six weeks and get bloods done then - but also observe what your body is doing.


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