# Heart attack, stroke, kidney failure, heart disease, liver failure, blood pressure. Steroids



## Big Worm (Feb 28, 2014)

*Heart attack, stroke, kidney failure, heart disease, liver failure, blood pressure. Steroids*

I wanted to make a thread about different health issues and the associated risks we all take.  It may open the eyes of one of these youngsters about their health and what to keep track of.

We've all experienced blood pressure issues.  What other problems have you or someone you know directly had?

The last thing I want is myself or anyone else to fall over dead because they thought AAS was no big deal and were reckless about it.


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## Yaya (Feb 28, 2014)

Always great to remind everyone certain risks. 

I don't take orals cause I drink from time to time

I don't take stims. .because I'm already too hyper


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 28, 2014)

The beetus from my poptarts...

I think the blood pressure is probably the number one concern for most of us.  I know it is for me. You take one drug which has sides so you take more drugs to deal with those sides. It piles up after a while. 

There is also the occasional infection from some dirty gear made in some asshole's toilet.


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## ECKSRATED (Feb 28, 2014)

Buddy had a cancerous growth the size of a melon in his back because he ran gh. Just sped up the process of the cancer. He's clear now though which is awesome. 

Another buddy had a heart attack. Doctor told him the anadrol built up in his kidney or liver or some organ for some reason and released all at once almost killing him. Don't know how true that story is or if that's even possible. I'm no doc. Lol

my brothers buddy died in his sleep while on steroids. Not saying it was from the gear but he was only 21.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 28, 2014)

I got this story second hand from my cousin who works in a hospital:

They got a patient in who was I believe 18-19yo. Apparently he had been overdoing dbol and drol together in super high doses for well over 3months. No liver protection, super high blood pressure, you name it. I think he was diagnosed with cholestatic jaundice (yellowing of the skin, eyes, and other membranes), severe hypertension, peliosis hepatis (cysts that are filled with blood in the liver). All I'm all he came close to death on a few occasions and the worst part is he had been juicing under the guidance of his father...


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## Rumpy (Feb 28, 2014)

Personally, blood pressure, high liver values, shitty cholesterol numbers, and some enlarges prostrate issues.  I'm on PB and Chol meds anyways so I try to keep a real close eye on them.

It's my understanding that the gear itself isn't harmful, but the above mentioned side effect still carry all of their risks, so if you PB and cholesterol are shit, regardless of why, you're at risk.

Keeping E2 under control helps a lot with BP and prostrate, Cialis will bring down BP, Cardio, Fish oil and eating better will improve cholesterol.  Stay away from orals and alcohol if your liver values are high, and take NAC even if they're not.  And for fuks sake, get labs and know what your numbers.

I completely agree with you BW, a lot of guys are pretty reckless about how they cycle.  There's a lot more to it than just pinning gear and running PCT.


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## losieloos (Feb 28, 2014)

I get pretty bad tren cough.


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## JOMO (Feb 28, 2014)

I Personally have only ran into high liver values while running drol! People also need to put into account prescribed meds while taking oral aas because those prescribed meds may already have elavated your values. This is the problem I ran into.


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## DieYoungStrong (Feb 28, 2014)

A guy I used to work with died at 38. He fell of a building but they determined he had a stroke and then fell.  

Heavy, heavy juicer and he competed in strongman. Who knows if juice had anything to do with it, but 38 yr olds typically don't stroke out.


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## shenky (Feb 28, 2014)

Good thread. Always good to reinforce that there is, in fact, a dark side to AAS.


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## Tiny Calves (Feb 28, 2014)

Having the testosterone of a 70 year old at the age of 18.


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## Joliver (Feb 28, 2014)

1) High blood pressure:  It should be 120/80.  The number is systolic/diastolic.  
    --Systolic:  The pressure that is exerted on the vessels when the heart "beats."  The number is problematic at or beyond 140.

    --Diastolic: The pressure that is in the vessels when the heart rests.  This number is problematic at or beyond 90.  This is the number that is a high predictor of cardiovascular events. 
                     Pay attention to this number in particular.

If you are prone to high BP, you MUST control your estrogen and water retention.  Keep your sodium low.  Don't think an aspirin per day is going to save you from a 100mg ED tren/100mg ED drol cycle.  It won't.  Aspirin is a good supplement, but it won't stop ventricular wall thickening.  I watched my ejection fraction lower by 8% over a year.  Scared me stupid....or smart.  Never let your BP roam.  

2)  Hemoglobin/Hematocrit/RBCs:  Your blood profile also is important in monitoring the overall health of your cardiovascular system.  Hearts don't like to pump crude oil. Donate your blood or do therapeutic phlebotomy regularly.  Again...don't think an aspirin will save you.  

3)  Liver values: If you eat dbol and wash it down with drol, watch your liver values (ALT and AST).  Take NAC...for god sakes.  That shit is cheap and livers aren't. 

4)  Blood lipids:  This is another "drop dead while driving down the road" predictor that needs to be watched.  All the proper diet in the world won't be able to maintain a proper ratio of HDL/LDL/triglycerides on the heaviest of cycles.  Over the counter solutions are available.  Niacin in the 2g range will lower LDL and increase HDL, but may leave you flushed.  Fish oil will maintain a healthy triglyceride balance.  If those options don't work....get a cholesterol med.  They are cheap as hell, and they will save your life.   


These are the primary sides that I watch and control regularly along with my remedies for the condition. I hope it helps.


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## amore169 (Feb 28, 2014)

That's great advise joliver, I make a habit in donating blood every three months.


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## shenky (Feb 28, 2014)

joliver said:


> 1) High blood pressure:  It should be 120/80.  The number is systolic/diastolic.
> --Systolic:  The pressure that is exerted on the vessels when the heart "beats."  The number is problematic at or beyond 140.
> 
> --Diastolic: The pressure that is in the vessels when the heart rests.  This number is problematic at or beyond 90.  This is the number that is a high predictor of cardiovascular events.
> ...




Joliver, good read. Thanks. My next cycle is dbol/test/deca. Around when in my cycle should I be donating blood?


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## LeanHerm (Feb 28, 2014)

Cholesterol depending on what you're taking. 

My biggest issue is hurting myself carrying a refrigerator, washer, or anything heavy when someone moves. Seems to be the case that when people understand your big n strong they always ask you to help. Lol. Be careful my brothers.


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## cotton2012 (Feb 28, 2014)

All these health issues "could" be attributed to AAS use but isn't it fair to say they could be attributed to just simply genetics. I mean I'm not trying to say they are perfectly safe take off and have fun, sh*t you can abuse cheeseburgers and it will shorten your life. What I mean is, there is I think way more documented cases of all of these health issues in people who have never touched AAS, happens all the time even in children. Basically what I'm saying is how the f*ck is Ronnie Coleman still alive or any top pro in the last 10 years, cause we are not just talking about use or abuse, no we are talking about EXTREME abuse over a very long period of time, or Arnold and pretty much his whole crew they were experimenting before they knew what was "bad" for you, still alive. They will tell you "well its genetics" the way I see it is if someone takes AAS and dies from a heart attack maybe they were just one of those statistic that was going to die of a heart attack no matter what. I'd like to think we control our own destiny somewhat and that stuff like eating right and regular cardio will extend life or at least improve the quality of it, in fact I'd have to say that what and how you eat would have way more to do with developing disease than AAS use, but there are so many factors, how well you sleep, daily stress levels I already know. It seems logical to be careful and I totally agree with Jolivers entire post and do monitor those myself religiously but just food for thought. And just remember you can even drink too much water!


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## Joliver (Feb 28, 2014)

shenky said:


> Joliver, good read. Thanks. My next cycle is dbol/test/deca. Around when in my cycle should I be donating blood?



The answer to that varies somewhat.  Depending on the length of your cycle, and the nature of the AAS you are taking.  

The longer the cycle is the more often you will donate blood. I rarely donate more than once per quarter.  But the best answer to this is to have a blood test regularly to see exactly where your H&H is and base your decision on that.  

Certain compounds will drive your H&H through the roof.  Anadrol and EQ always end up putting on the high end of the scale.  

But be careful, if you cross over a certain level, you will not be able to donate.  Then you will be left seeking a therapeutic phlebotomy.  Most doctors are hesitant to order those to help AAS users control their sides.  The only other option is to drain yourself....not fun.


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## Seeker (Feb 28, 2014)

BigHerm said:


> Cholesterol depending on what you're taking.
> 
> My biggest issue is hurting myself carrying a refrigerator, washer, or anything heavy when someone moves. Seems to be the case that when people understand your big n strong they always ask you to help. Lol. Be careful my brothers.



I'm done helping people move. Hire a mover or get a couple of laborers from Home Depot. When people ask me to help them move I tell them; I'm good at picking up heavy things and putting them down, but I'm not good at carrying them across a room or down a flight of stairs.


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## Hero Swole (Feb 28, 2014)

Seeker said:


> I'm done helping people move. Hire a mover or get a couple of laborers from Home Depot. When people ask me to help them move I tell them; I'm good at picking up heavy things and putting them down, but I'm not good at carrying them across a room or down a flight of stairs.






the only time I ever snapped my sheet up was cause of this.^^^


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## Hero Swole (Feb 28, 2014)

joliver said:


> The answer to that varies somewhat.  Depending on the length of your cycle, and the nature of the AAS you are taking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...








have you ever had to drain yourself?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 28, 2014)

Hero Swole said:


> have you ever had to drain yourself?



Not Joli, but yes I have. It's not that bad but extreme care must be taken to prevent issues. Your first time doing it you should have someone with you.


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## Iron1 (Feb 28, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Not Joli, but yes I have.



*edit* that was in bad taste.


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## Azog (Feb 28, 2014)

Just wanna add, NAC works...REALLY well. Been on 80mg tbol for 8 weeks and my liver values are normal!


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## Joliver (Feb 28, 2014)

Hero Swole said:


> have you ever had to drain yourself?



Yes I have.  Anadrol put me over the limit and I had to drain myself.  A pint is a bit less that 475mls.  I tried 2 methods.  Needle and tube method....it looked like blade 4 was filmed in my house.  And a 60cc syringe slow draw.  The syringe takes a lot of time and a steady hand.  

If you do it yourself, I would recommend taking a lot less than a pint (no shit right?) and do it more often from more locations to protect your veins. If you took and hour every month to remove 120mls, you would rarely have to donate.  Don't get me wrong, I like donating--it saves lives, and makes the recipients bench go up 10%, but you can only take that big ass needle in your arms so many times before they scar down.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 28, 2014)

I used thin plastic tubing and stuck it into the locking end of a needle. At the other end, I stuck the tubing through a small hole I cut into the cap of a plastic water bottle. Since most water bottles are about 500ml I just filled it up but you don't need to take that much out usually. I also used a BP cuff to apply pressure to my upper arm to help the blood flow faster through the needle. You have to be extremely careful doing it yourself though. If you have a syncopic episode with the needle still in your arm you could literally drain yourself of most of your blood. First few times do it around someone else just to make sure you don't pass out.


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## Popeye (Mar 1, 2014)

Tren fuked me all up...450 Ace a week for 5-6 weeks. I was fine the first 4-5 weeks, but going into the fifth week, my blood pressure began to sky-rocket, nose bleeds all day, piss looked like whiskey...so I stopped the tren and the symptoms continued for a few weeks after stopping. I ended up having to see a cardiologist because my BP was staying in the 160/115 range. 

If I ever run it again, I wont be going over 4 weeks!


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## Oldbastard (Jun 10, 2021)

There are risks . I’m 55 began cycles later in life 35 yo , but I’ve conquered each ailment by making sure I get labs monthly then adjust . I had high iron stopped liver pills and took none in supplements. They falsely dx with polychema , I quit EQ forever and give blood to American Red Cross Q 3 months going on 3 years good now , liver values high now use TuDCA , milk thistle etc even there’s study in 2017 validated coffee reduce High ALT and I’m living proof . Every thing in moderation, be mindful of your health . You can’t build body with a broken health issues


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## rawdeal (Jun 11, 2021)

Popeye said:


> Tren fuked me all up...450 Ace a week for 5-6 weeks. I was fine the first 4-5 weeks, but going into the fifth week, my blood pressure began to sky-rocket, nose bleeds all day, piss looked like whiskey...so I stopped the tren and the symptoms continued for a few weeks after stopping. I ended up having to see a cardiologist because my BP was staying in the 160/115 range.
> 
> If I ever run it again, I wont be going over 4 weeks!



I don't always refer to 2014 posts, but I would add (1) cut the duration, and/or (2) cut the dosage.  450/week was no world record for Tren Ace, but it was higher than many users have done.



Oldbastard said:


> There are risks . I’m 55 began cycles later in life 35 yo , but I’ve conquered each ailment by making sure I get labs monthly then adjust . I had high iron stopped liver pills and took none in supplements. They falsely dx with polychema , I quit EQ forever and give blood to American Red Cross Q 3 months going on 3 years good now , liver values high now use TuDCA , milk thistle etc even there’s study in 2017 validated coffee reduce High ALT and I’m living proof . Every thing in moderation, be mindful of your health . You can’t build body with a broken health issues



This has been my approach so far.  Unless there is a great sense of urgency about my lab report or the symptoms I feel, I prefer to stay informed via quality "boards," identify the possible problems I'm causing myself, and decide how I can cease being my own worst enemy.

I don't rule out ER visits or asap doctor appointments in a worse/worst case scenario, but I prefer my own counsel, based on common sense and staying well informed.


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## MrBafner (Jun 11, 2021)

My eGFR values seem to go up and down during different feeding patterns.
Carnivore keto diet for over 6 months - which consisted just of meats, cream, cheese and eggs my kidney values dropped to 56 L, blood pressure was high and cholesterol went through the roof. Was taking Reandron 1000 monthly.
Changed to carb cycling - 3 days low / 1 day high saw my eGFR value rose to 70L, blood pressure in normal range and cholesterol come down. Changed to Primoteston fortnightly


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## rawdeal (Jun 11, 2021)

The "e" stands for "estimated," as in, derived from other "real" absolute values.  Diet and expected muscle tissue breakdown from exercise can make it a very misleading part of a Lab Report.


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## rawdeal (Jun 11, 2021)

https://labtestsonline.org/tests/cystatin-c

"cystatin-c" is supposedly a more reliable test for true kidney disease than the eGFR, which might be an indicator but might also just estimate transitory values healthy kidneys can easily rebound from, based on diet, etc.  I first heard about it from quality "broscience" you actually can run into on the boards sometimes.  The problem with the cystatin-c test is it is not always available from online labwork sites or ordered by doctors.

The url above gives a brief overview, but note those guys sell lab tests  ....


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