# The American Obesity Epidemic



## Gadawg (Dec 19, 2018)

What do you blame this on?  Im sure the "fat is bad, carbs are good" nonsense is partially to blame but something much bigger has to be going on here. 

American males are 30 lbs heavier and females 25 lbs since the 1960s. 

I have to believe it comes completely down to a newfound lack of discipline. People's lives have gotten so easy that they never learned it. Every meal is a party now and it's ok to be fat these days. Hell, it's a phucking handicap now. I see it everywhere. You cant find good employees anymore. Theyre all too lazy. You see it here everyday. Guys coming on looking to cycle because theyd rather risk their health than spend the years grinding it natural and being on top of diet and training everyday. 

This was the greatest country in the world at one point but today's Americans are some scary zombies.  

What happened you all think?


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## Lizard King (Dec 19, 2018)

Eating on the run, both parents working to survive in this world, processed food, alcohol consumption increase and decrease in cigarette smoking.  Add that to more people sitting behind a desk for X numbers of hours a day, slamming down something quick for lunch eating on the longer commute/increased traffic and you have 30lbs at least.


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## Viduus (Dec 19, 2018)

Eating on the run. Even “healthy” foods are flash fried to get people through lines quickly. Who has time to bake anything in a restaurant?


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## Gadawg (Dec 19, 2018)

But we all know that doing that is going to lead to being unattractive, feeling like shit, and having huge health consequences. Everyone "on the go" can pack a lunch. 

There are tons of countries with similar working and lifestyle issues that would promote these type of bodies but they dont end up looking like this.  Something else is missing.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 19, 2018)

It's caused by sociopathic economic policies implemented by baby boomers who acted without regard for future generations well-being, and by lower activity levels. Education is a major contributing factor. Nutrition education in the US has been dog shit.

The reasons are many. There is no silver bullet.


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## DevilDoc87 (Dec 19, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> It's caused by sociopathic economic policies implemented by baby boomers who acted without regard for future generations well-being, and by lower activity levels. Education is a major contributing factor. Nutrition education in the US has been dog shit.
> 
> The reasons are many. There is no silver bullet.



And I would venture to add the pussification of America. Toxic masculinity blah blah blah.


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## snake (Dec 19, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> It's caused by sociopathic economic policies implemented by baby boomers who acted without regard for future generations well-being, and by lower activity levels. Education is a major contributing factor. Nutrition education in the US has been dog shit.
> 
> The reasons are many. There is no silver bullet.



I can't pin any of it on education. It doesn't take a PhD to know you need to get off your fat ass today if you don't want a fat ass tomorrow. 

Humans are just lazy fuuks, that's all there is to it. We do things for two reasons; inspiration or desperation.


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## Straight30weight (Dec 19, 2018)

There are so many reasons. Men are no longer men. Being fat or thick is socially accepted now. People in general are lazy. People want results immediately. There are so many poor food choices these days. Add them all together and you get an obese person. My brother is 305lbs. Life for him seems miserable yet he has zero interest in doing anything about it. I've offered to train with him, help him with eating, etc. He won't do anything. He eats out every day, several times a day. But he doesn't care.


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## Straight30weight (Dec 19, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> And I would venture to add the pussification of America. Toxic masculinity blah blah blah.


This one is huge. I look at the kind of "men" coming out of my daughter's high school and it's a joke.


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## DevilDoc87 (Dec 19, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> There are so many reasons. Men are no longer men. Being fat or thick is socially accepted now. People in general are lazy. People want results immediately. There are so many poor food choices these days. Add them all together and you get an obese person. My brother is 305lbs. Life for him seems miserable yet he has zero interest in doing anything about it. I've offered to train with him, help him with eating, etc. He won't do anything. He eats out every day, several times a day. But he doesn't care.



the worst is when you have someone like this who’s a good friend and constantly been saying they want to and ask for help etc, but when the time comes, no where to be found or full of excuses


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## DF (Dec 19, 2018)

Fat shaming! how dare you sir!


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 19, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> And I would venture to add the pussification of America. Toxic masculinity blah blah blah.





Straight30weight said:


> There are so many reasons. Men are no longer men. Being fat or thick is socially accepted now. People in general are lazy. People want results immediately. There are so many poor food choices these days. Add them all together and you get an obese person. My brother is 305lbs. Life for him seems miserable yet he has zero interest in doing anything about it. I've offered to train with him, help him with eating, etc. He won't do anything. He eats out every day, several times a day. But he doesn't care.



Pussification? Men aren't men? 

What's that got to do with eating too much? Pretty sure women are fat too.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 19, 2018)

snake said:


> I can't pin any of it on education. It doesn't take a PhD to know you need to get off your fat ass today if you don't want a fat ass tomorrow.
> 
> Humans are just lazy fuuks, that's all there is to it. We do things for two reasons; inspiration or desperation.



I'm not referring to just formal school based education. Education includes what's passed on from parents to children. 

Generally speaking, fat parents have fat kids. 

Education is the only solution to our issues with obesity.


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## snake (Dec 19, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> I'm not referring to just formal school based education. Education includes what's passed on from parents to children.
> 
> Generally speaking, fat parents have fat kids.
> 
> Education is the only solution to our issues with obesity.



I have to agree with that now that I understand what you meant.


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## DevilDoc87 (Dec 19, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Pussification? Men aren't men?
> 
> What's that got to do with eating too much? Pretty sure women are fat too.




as you’re labeled a bonehead or bro etc, if you actually care about yourself and hit the gym and look good. Pussification meaning yes majority of men really aren’t men anymore. Too feminine


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 19, 2018)

DevilDoc87 said:


> as you’re labeled a bonehead or bro etc, if you actually care about yourself and hit the gym and look good. Pussification meaning yes majority of men really aren’t men anymore. Too feminine



I don't get it. How are men not men anymore and how does this relate to higher average body fat levels among the population?


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## Seeker (Dec 19, 2018)

American obesity = American Culture. The reasons are many. Education, habits,  Government, Advertising and Marketing, Lobbyists, pharmaceuticals, FDAA, etc etc..


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## silvereyes87 (Dec 19, 2018)

level of activity has gone major down. Most kids and young adults would rather play call of duty or watch tv/ play on their phone then play sports or pump some iron/ go for a run etc.


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## DevilDoc87 (Dec 19, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> I don't get it. How are men not men anymore and how does this relate to higher average body fat levels among the population?



Im looking at it a little more abstract, and adding to what you and others have said. Combination of all.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 19, 2018)

Its a mismatch between the rate of evolution of our environment vs the rate of evolution of our physiology. The former happens very quickly, the latter doesn't. 

Our environment is designed to provide easy access to varied, tasty, foods. It is also designed in a way that the requirement for physical activity is negligible. Most of us make a living sitting on our asses all day. It's pretty much the only way to make a living on the highest level of society. All of these environmental changes were done intentionally to make our lives easier. 

Well, your body is designed to ask for food even if an abundance of it is available due to the way we evolved (hunter gather lifestyle and all that jazz). It completely neglects the fact that a lack of food is a non-issue today because it evolution is a slow process. You also have the fact that surviving with little energy expenditure is ****ing awesome as far as your body concerned. Zero biological drive to get you to move your ass. In other words, if your life is easier = it is easier to get really fat. 

A lack of education is not the issue. People know what it takes to drop the pounds and in most cases are actually successful at dropping those pounds. The problem comes when they need to maintain their results. The vasty majority fail miserably. 

You can say this is a discipline issue. Sure. That is why most obesity researchers that I know are now focusing on different forms of behavioral therapy (CBT, etc) to coincide with the usual dietary/exercise stuff. The idea being that people fail because of an inability to change their habits permanently and habitual change is very much a mental process. We'll see in the years to come how successful this is because I don't give a **** how disciplined you try to be, the chances of you beating biology is very very low. You're fighting yourself. 

So, the solution is actually relatively simple if expensive. Reduce the focus on changing the person, start focusing on changing the environment. This will lead to a much quicker resolution but, due to the cost & loss of profit involved, you are unlikely to see it happen unless ordered to do so from the highest level  

Oh and the people at the highest level are well aware of this stuff btw. In America specifically, you guys are ****ed because their is simply too much money to made from keeping you fat. In the UK, it's more of a case of weighing up the cost vs benefit and we seem to be heading down the right path (taxing sugar drinks for example) but have a long way to go.


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## Spongy (Dec 19, 2018)

Fantastic response Zilla.  Just look at how up in arms people get about banning chocolate milk and sugar
y drinks from school lunches, or taxing soft drinks.  People are out there raising hell just for the sake of raising hell without actually understanding that the legislation is meant to better the health of our nation as a whole and drive down the burden of obesity on the healthcare system and ultimately the cost on the people as a whole.


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## DF (Dec 19, 2018)




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## November Ajax (Dec 19, 2018)

I don't think I'll ever understand how some people can get as fat as they get.


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## Elivo (Dec 19, 2018)

Nice response zilla.

One thing that touches on part of what he said as far as changing the environment, if you take a look around youll see convenience foods everywhere, check out lines in any store, its all flashy and shiny at the supermarket. Vending machines are everywhere with junk food and sodas in them.  Fast food places with signs that rise up above everything else around them. 

People today love the quick fix and there are more than enough out there willing to provide it for them in order to make a buck. 

Pillar also made a good point with the education, or lack there of in people today, i would see it all the time at work, you cant imagine how aggravated i used to get when id see parents bring in their toddler to be seen and it be holding a bottle or cup filled with mountain dew, i wanted to smack it out of the kids hand and then smack the parents.


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## Seeker (Dec 19, 2018)

Taxing soft drinks has decreased sales of these beverages but the  variety of choices for substitutes based on sales haven't been much better.  Fruit juices for example, which have not been taxed,  having just as much calories  and added sugars.  These taxes are intended to raise revenue and to justify them as a population health measure or because it will be used to treat obesity is bullshit. Lol just look at our U.S.  governments history of similar taxation. .... Tobacco.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 19, 2018)

Seeker said:


> Taxing soft drinks has decreased sales of these beverages but the  variety of choices for substitutes based on sales haven't been much better.  Fruit juices for example, which have not been taxed,  having just as much calories  and added sugars.  These taxes are intended to raise revenue and to justify them as a population health measure or because it will be used to treat obesity is bullshit. Lol just look at our U.S.  governments history of similar taxation. .... Tobacco.


That just means the policy wasn't well thought out, not that it won't work. 
Soft drinks are an easy place to start with. You can't just tax all junk foods because it'll lead to a backlash from clueless consumers - you have to ease this shit in. Creating a system that covers all caloric and sugar/fat dense foods (2/3 of these) really isn't that difficult. A few weeks of data gathering and I could easily tell you what foods should be taxed and what shouldn't. Easily. Then you up the level of tax until you see an impact on sales. 

Making junk food less accessible is absolutely necessary as part of environment change to tackle obesity. Increases prices is one way to do this because it makes you have to consider the cost/benefit of the purchase rather than it being an instinctive automatic buy. This involves taxation. Nothing bullshit about it, simple biology. 

And it isn't about what the government intends. It's about the end result. People won't buy food they don't need when it's actually harder to buy.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 19, 2018)

Seeker said:


> Taxing soft drinks has decreased sales of these beverages but the  variety of choices for substitutes based on sales haven't been much better.  Fruit juices for example, which have not been taxed,  having just as much calories  and added sugars.  These taxes are intended to raise revenue and to justify them as a population health measure or because it will be used to treat obesity is bullshit. Lol just look at our U.S.  governments history of similar taxation. .... Tobacco.



Tobacco taxes and minimum sales prices worked though.


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## stanley (Dec 19, 2018)

its not just the usa 
its everywere
even in rural Scotland.

thats all I can say in a nice soft tone.

iam a bit of a kok when it comes to this subject here in my area.I HATE FAT BASTEREDS,
fuk education fuk tax rise .what the fuk is wrong with u fat kunts..SURELY YOU CAN see that you are getting obese ..SO STOP FUKING EATINGSO MUCH.or get the fuk off your ass and do some exersize FFS...not that hard.they choose to be that way .and then bitch all day long saying ….I dont eat that much...…..FUK OFF YOU DO YOU LIEING KUNT,

lol rant over sorry if I offended you .but if your fat I dont give a fuk.

lol can you tell I love fatties.lmao
going to make a nice fat lol joint now and chill. that was nice getting that of me chest .I wish there was a microphone button so I could vent verbal .haha.


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## Seeker (Dec 19, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Tobacco taxes and minimum sales prices worked though.



out of the hundreds of billions of dollars of tobacco taxes less than 3% actually went to  cessation. Where did the rest go? The reduction of people quitting over the years did not come from tobacco tax. it was the result of other avenues of awareness.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 19, 2018)

a good reverse diet followed by a lean cut is what these fat fuks need


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## Elivo (Dec 19, 2018)

A lot of it does come down to choice, this country, and to some extent the entire world is just getting lazier and lazier. People dont want to be bothered with eating right or working out because it takes too much effort. 

Eating better is simply a matter of choice, it takes almost no effort at all, you dont have to hit the gym 5 days a week to stay healthy and you dont have to run 5 miles a day either. Sure it helps but its not something that is necessary to stay healthy. 

Obviously there are environmental factors involved along with education, financial status and things like that. But most of it still comes down to a choice.

Id say 75% of the people i work with are what would be considered obese, these are all educated people with decent paying jobs that have access to fitness places and healthy food. They CHOSE to order take out like pizza and fast food almost every night they work.  More than one of them i see sitting at the desk with a 2 liter of soda in front of them, and its not there to be shared , its their own drink.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 19, 2018)

Elivo said:


> A lot of it does come down to choice, this country, and to some extent the entire world is just getting lazier and lazier. People dont want to be bothered with eating right or working out because it takes too much effort.
> 
> Eating better is simply a matter of choice, it takes almost no effort at all, you dont have to hit the gym 5 days a week to stay healthy and you dont have to run 5 miles a day either. Sure it helps but its not something that is necessary to stay healthy.
> 
> ...


We are lazy because the environment allows us to be lazy. That was one of the main reasons why the environment we live in changed the way it did - to make our lives easier aka lazier. This wasn't something that we just decided to become. 
Oh and effort has nothing to do with it. Think in terms of NEED - we don't need to eat right or work out to achieve what matters in this world, which is moving up the social chain, getting women and making babies. 

You're right, it does boil down to choice. However, relying on people making the right choices is not exactly a good approach to this or any other problem. We, as a species, make stupid choices on a daily basis with zero consideration for the long term. A brief look at human history will show you this in plenty of detail. We need to focus on trying to influence that choice and, again, this goes back to simply making junk food less rewarding - bump up the price, reduce the availability, etc.


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## BrotherJ (Dec 19, 2018)

I think it comes down to laziness and ill-informed choices about food and nutrition. I think sugar plays a large part in the rise of obesity since the 80's. Starting then there was the whole "no-fat" trend but if you remove fat from food it makes it taste like cardboard. So, food companies had to replace the fat to increase/keep the same taste - wham bam here comes more sugar. So, Joe Schmo is at the grocery store looks at a package of food labeled "no fat" and thinks he can eat more of it and he won't get fat. Couple that plus gallons of soda, processed food, eating out, never cooking at home and we see where we are today.

That being said, I would say it seems our society seems to be getting more health conscious. I don't particularly like Crossfit but it's popularity may be good in that people become more active and get off the couch.


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## Merlin (Dec 19, 2018)

You have all made very good points. Healthcare is actually a culprit as well. We get these super morbid obese people come in (BMI of 50 or more) and end up doing everything we can to help them. Education, dietary restrictions, surgeries etc. A few weeks later they are readmitted back into the hospital. We tell them the same things over and over sounding like a broken record, then get the "yeah i know" or "my doctor said that last time" I actually got written up for telling a fat person you are going to kill yourself if you keep eating like shit haha. People know its wrong and we can't even help stupid. I few select few people in our populations cannot help being overweight (hypothyroidism) but it damn sure isn't every fckin person i see.


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## Elivo (Dec 19, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> We are lazy because the environment allows us to be lazy. That was one of the main reasons why the environment we live in changed the way it did - to make our lives easier aka lazier. This wasn't something that we just decided to become.
> Oh and effort has nothing to do with it. Think in terms of NEED - we don't need to eat right or work out to achieve what matters in this world, which is moving up the social chain, getting women and making babies.
> 
> You're right, it does boil down to choice. However, relying on people making the right choices is not exactly a good approach to this or any other problem. We, as a species, make stupid choices on a daily basis with zero consideration for the long term. A brief look at human history will show you this in plenty of detail. We need to focus on trying to influence that choice and, again, this goes back to simply making junk food less rewarding - bump up the price, reduce the availability, etc.




Well i can’t disagree with people making stupid choices at all!


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## Elivo (Dec 19, 2018)

Merlin said:


> You have all made very good points. Healthcare is actually a culprit as well. We get these super morbid obese people come in (BMI of 50 or more) and end up doing everything we can to help them. Education, dietary restrictions, surgeries etc. A few weeks later they are readmitted back into the hospital. We tell them the same things over and over sounding like a broken record, then get the "yeah i know" or "my doctor said that last time" I actually got written up for telling a fat person you are going to kill yourself if you keep eating like shit haha. People know its wrong and we can't even help stupid. I few select few people in our populations cannot help being overweight (hypothyroidism) but it damn sure isn't every fckin person i see.




This is true for just about every chronic illness you can think of. People don’t want to deal with it at home so they come to the hospital and get set straight, go home and piss off till things get to the point they need to come back again.


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## Gadawg (Dec 19, 2018)

The first counselor I saw the day after I quit drinking was a woman the size of a freaking whale.  Im sitting there pissed off and shaking and this manatee is telling me how much willpower I need to manifest and how I have to think of my health, etc.  

The really odd thing to me is how acceptable it is. The guy who smokes cigarettes is a retard but the woman who is wearing a moomoo just has a slow metabolism......  phuck you....


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## Straight30weight (Dec 19, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> The really odd thing to me is how acceptable it is. The guy who smokes cigarettes is a retard but the woman who is wearing a moomoo just has a slow metabolism......  phuck you....


This is a big part of it as well. It's become the norm, the overweight person no longer feels out of place. Therefore, no need to change.


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## jennerrator (Dec 19, 2018)

This is my deal and I’ve said it a lot.....

1. Personal preference PERIOD

2. Yes millions are lazy

3. Millions love to stuff their face

4. Some have medical issues that cause them to hold fat but it’s not even as close to laziness 

5. Shit can be learned easy as fuuuck to lose weight 

6. Folks need to stop crying, if they want to lose weight..and just DO IT

Merry Christmas!


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## Elivo (Dec 19, 2018)

jennerrator said:


> This is my deal and I’ve said it a lot.....
> 
> 1. Personal preference PERIOD
> 
> ...



stop being coy Jenn, tell us what you really think! LOL


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 19, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> The really odd thing to me is how acceptable it is.


The fat acceptance movement is a great example of what happens when you rely on people choosing to do the right thing. It would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that everyone's tax dollars end up paying for the choices these folks made. Which goes back to my original point about changing the focus from the person to the environment and etc, etc.


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## dk8594 (Dec 19, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> What happened you all think?



Two things: peanut butter and chocolate.


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## daddyboul (Dec 19, 2018)

"Obesity is characterized by resistance to insulin, leptin and other hormonal signals that would normally control appetite and limit reward. Neuroimaging studies in obese subjects provide evidence of altered reward and tolerance. Once obese, many individuals meet criteria for psychological dependence. Stress and dieting may sensitize an individual to reward. Finally, fast food advertisements, restaurants and menus all provide environmental cues that may trigger addictive overeating"-Current drug abuse reviews ,Volume 4, Number 3, September 2011, pp. 146-162(17).

Thought I would drop this in here. I believe advertisement definitely has an impact on eliciting a "want". There is also no doubt that food elicits the reward circuit in the brain somewhat similar to addictive drugs. This is definitely a good link to read ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4477694/ (u have to put thew ww in the beginning, i can't post links yet 

I also really think sodium is a culprit, many foods that are processed are extremely high in sodium. Why do those chips taste so dam good? sodium. Why does that popcorn taste so dam good? sodium. Are chips and popcorn ideal to eat? Ofcoursethefk not. So aside from the fact that this sodium is going to greatly increase the threat of hypertension, I think the higher rates of sodium will correlate to overeating.


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## November Ajax (Dec 19, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> A lack of education is not the issue. People know what it takes to drop the pounds and in most cases are actually successful at dropping those pounds. The problem comes when they need to maintain their results. The vasty majority fail miserably.



Also, all of the "experts" advertising diets are idiots. Most of those diets are excessive because they want you to see results fast, so you think your diet is working, and they always neglect essential nutrients (for example the Atkins diet or the no fat diets). The problem is that the body, when in situations where your nutrition is that poor, will start being more receptive to storing whatever it can, so when the diet is "over" and you start eating normally, the body behaves like a kid that's about to leave the candy store, and it just takes everything it can and saves it in its pockets. Then you bounce back inmediately and your willpower is to blame, when actually it's the crazy diet through which you just put your body.

So, the big reason why people don't loose weight is the same as why people don't get in shape, it's because the market forces experts to come up with new stupid shit every week or else they won't sell any magazines. The same way the Atkins diet came to be, came the "600 reps challenge" and all kinds of tricks and secrets that don't work. So you'll spend months on crap that doesn't do anything other than tire you, you'll get discouraged and you'll stop doing it. Then you'll go back to your horrible habits because, if the "new awesome shiny magic diet 3.0" didn't work for you, what will?


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 20, 2018)

November Ajax said:


> Also, all of the "experts" advertising diets are idiots. Most of those diets are excessive because they want you to see results fast, so you think your diet is working, and they always neglect essential nutrients (for example the Atkins diet or the no fat diets). The problem is that the body, when in situations where your nutrition is that poor, will start being more receptive to storing whatever it can, so when the diet is "over" and you start eating normally, the body behaves like a kid that's about to leave the candy store, and it just takes everything it can and saves it in its pockets. Then you bounce back inmediately and your willpower is to blame, when actually it's the crazy diet through which you just put your body.
> 
> So, the big reason why people don't loose weight is the same as why people don't get in shape, it's because the market forces experts to come up with new stupid shit every week or else they won't sell any magazines. The same way the Atkins diet came to be, came the "600 reps challenge" and all kinds of tricks and secrets that don't work. So you'll spend months on crap that doesn't do anything other than tire you, you'll get discouraged and you'll stop doing it. Then you'll go back to your horrible habits because, if the "new awesome shiny magic diet 3.0" didn't work for you, what will?


Some level of of nutrient deficiency is inevitable on a diet because a diet involves a caloric deficit. It also plays no part in metabolic adaptation, which is essentially what you are describing. 

Metabolic adaptation involves numerous changes that relate to decreased energy expenditure and increased signalling for hunger. It is triggered, first and foremost, by fat loss and is hence, unavoidable. Now you can limit it to some degree by maintaining muscle mass (lift, increase protein intake, etc) and not going batshit crazy with cardio (this increases the adaptation due to the body thinking that you are now starving AND having to a lot of work = EAT SOME ****ING FOOD YOU ASSHAT!) but...some level of adaptation is *unavoidable*. It's happening. 

Now, the problem you have as a fat person is that you have already caused some level of adaptation to occur by actually getting fat. That increase in actual fat cells (adipocytes) is not reversible. We can shrink them down, but we can't actually get rid of them completely. Your metabolism responds to the number of fat cells - especially Leptin, a big player in all this. By gaining those extra pounds you have inadvertently made your body more comfortable at a higher level of bodyfat and that's a permanent adaptation. Can you see where I'm going with this? If not, keep reading...

Let's take Fat Snake (FS) and his buddy our lean, UG Snake (UGS). 2 dudes identical in every way except for fat mass.
FS has done a great job and managed to get himself down to the same weight as UGS. But hold on a second, FS's BMR and TDEE are drastically lower despite everything now being identical to UGS. Why? Because FS had gone way past the point (known as a "settling point") that his body wants him to be at while UGS was always in the comfort zone. This point went up drastically when Fat Snake originally became FAT Snake.  

That is the problem here - the minute you get fat, getting & staying lean is always going to be an uphill struggle because of those permanent metabolic changes that occurred when you got fat to begin with. One of many things in life where being proactive (don't get fat to begin with) is a lot better than reactive (get fat, try to lose it). For more info on metabolic adaptation I'd encourage you to read this very relevant thread. 

Your last point about diets that do nothing to help build habits is partially correct in that, yes, a diet must be something that the individual can maintain permanently with regards to the types of meals it contains. Adherence > everything else.
However, it is not correct to say that a normal, healthy diet drastically improves the chances of weight loss maintenance because a quick look at the data will show you that it it is still absolutely horrendous. I do not believe education about dietary choices is the solution here. It has been attempted. For decades. It failed. For decades. We need to address the big elephant in the room which, again, is changing the environment.


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## November Ajax (Dec 20, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Some level of of nutrient deficiency is inevitable on a diet because a diet involves a caloric deficit. It also plays no part in metabolic adaptation, which is essentially what you are describing.
> 
> Metabolic adaptation involves numerous changes that relate to decreased energy expenditure and increased signalling for hunger. It is triggered, first and foremost, by fat loss and is hence, unavoidable. Now you can limit it to some degree by maintaining muscle mass (lift, increase protein intake, etc) and not going batshit crazy with cardio (this increases the adaptation due to the body thinking that you are now starving AND having to a lot of work = EAT SOME ****ING FOOD YOU ASSHAT!) but...some level of adaptation is *unavoidable*. It's happening.
> 
> ...



You are right. I also agree that staying lean is the difficult part.



> Your last point about diets that do nothing to help build habits is partially correct in that, yes, a diet must be something that the individual can maintain permanently with regards to the types of meals it contains. Adherence > everything else.
> However, it is not correct to say that a normal, healthy diet drastically improves the chances of weight loss maintenance because a quick look at the data will show you that it it is still absolutely horrendous. I do not believe education about dietary choices is the solution here. It has been attempted. For decades. It fail. For decades. We need to address the big elephant in the room which, again, is changing the environment.



I do agree that changing the environment is the reason why people get fat, however I don't think that's the only reason why they stay fat. I mean, the environment always plays a part on everything anyways, but I think it's mostly because there is way too much misinformation flying around the fitness world. People spend too much time waiting to find the best way to do something, when in reality it's a very simple deal, the only trick is being consistent.


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

Since when is staying lean difficult?


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## Gadawg (Dec 20, 2018)

jennerrator said:


> Since when is staying lean difficult?



You just have good genes. It's hard for me because I have a bad back, hips, and knees.


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> You just have good genes. It's hard for me because I have a bad back, hips, and knees.



To an extent yes, but we all know if I didn’t give a shit..I’d be a fatass!! Lol


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## Gadawg (Dec 20, 2018)

jennerrator said:


> To an extent yes, but we all know if I didn’t give a shit..I’d be a fatass!! Lol



I start cutting next week. Gonna make you proud girl. Not shaving my whole body though


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> I start cutting next week. Gonna make you proud girl. Not shaving my whole body though



I look forward to see your hardass work and dedication as I have major respect for it!!! Kick ass!!

and it’s ok if you have a few pieces of hair besides on your head!


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## November Ajax (Dec 20, 2018)

jennerrator said:


> Since when is staying lean difficult?



You sound like a rich person who can't understand why poor people can't afford better houses. :32 (17):


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

November Ajax said:


> You sound like a rich person who can't understand why poor people can't afford better houses. :32 (17):



oh my, you have no idea about my life!!!

its called caring what I look like and how I’ve always been athletic anddddd a hardass!!

anyone can be a hardass:32 (20):


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

And I guess my profile pic was plastic surgery....lmfao


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## November Ajax (Dec 20, 2018)

jennerrator said:


> oh my, you have no idea about my life!!!
> 
> its called caring what I look like and how I’ve always been athletic anddddd a hardass!!
> 
> anyone can be a hardass:32 (20):





jennerrator said:


> And I guess my profile pic was plastic surgery....lmfao



You misunderstood. I never said it was easy, in fact that was you, when you asked "since when is staying lean difficult?". My answer is, since always. I don't understand why someone who clearly put a lot of effort into being lean can say that it's easy, just like the fake rich person I used as an example.


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

November Ajax said:


> You misunderstood. I never said it was easy, in fact that was you, when you asked "since when is staying lean difficult?". My answer is, since always. I don't understand why someone who clearly put a lot of effort into being lean can say that it's easy, just like the fake rich person I used as an example.



But this is the deal...because it’s always been my lifestyle..I haven’t had to work that hard...that’s the lucky part about it...folks who come and go ..over and over..are never happy...I love the way I am and feel blessed everyday that that’s the type of person I am!


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## November Ajax (Dec 20, 2018)

jennerrator said:


> But this is the deal...because it’s always been my lifestyle..I haven’t had to work that hard...that’s the lucky part about it...folks who come and go ..over and over..are never happy...I love the way I am and feel blessed everyday that that’s the type of person I am!


So, you meant to say that it's easy for you?


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

November Ajax said:


> So, you meant to say that it's easy for you?



Type A baby...


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## bvs (Dec 20, 2018)

I think it's wilful ignorance for most people. That and the fact that shit food is so affordable and accessable


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## HijackedMyself (Dec 20, 2018)

bvs said:


> I think it's wilful ignorance for most people. That and the fact that *shit food* is so affordable and accessable



*Fast food*.

Every country is following this route sadly. Fatf* everywhere. Poor to rich. Incredible.


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## Lizard King (Dec 20, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> But we all know that doing that is going to lead to being unattractive, feeling like shit, and having huge health consequences. Everyone "on the go" can pack a lunch.
> 
> There are tons of countries with similar working and lifestyle issues that would promote these type of bodies but they dont end up looking like this.  Something else is missing.


Not everyone on the go can pack a lunch.  I have over 140 flights this year and am usually in some city where i cannot cook 3 days a week so eating out is my only option.  Trying to find something healthy for breakfast while on the run without chugging a shake is like going on a mission from god.  Lunch and dinner are at least easier to control.


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## jennerrator (Dec 20, 2018)

Lizard King said:


> Not everyone on the go can pack a lunch.  I have over 140 flights this year and am usually in some city where i cannot cook 3 days a week so eating out is my only option.  Trying to find something healthy for breakfast while on the run without chugging a shake is like going on a mission from god.  Lunch and dinner are at least easier to control.



Lol...love you dear but I eat a clean ass breakfast anytime I go out!!! Egg whites, wheat toast dry (unless they have a better bread) and bacon (yes a couple pieces aren’t going to make you fat) or a cleaner protein..I don’t stress about bacon....eating clean can be done anywhere ..just gotta do it!


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## MonkeyBusiness (Dec 20, 2018)

HijackedMyself said:


> *Fast food*.
> 
> Every country is following this route sadly. Fatf* everywhere. Poor to rich. Incredible.



Agreed with this and also adding that its the economic system we live in.
Food, beverage, agriculture and restaurant industries (to name a few) want more people to consume more of their product however you possibly can.
Generally, to get you to consume more, companies will add as many "tastey" ingredients as they can - to make your body less able to resist eating more. It's why so many places even put sugar on meat.

Anyway - when you are viewed by entire industries as nothing but a consumer and those industries have science and advertising firepower lined up to convince you to eat more or differently...unless you're trying damn hard, they're gonna get to you. They will break you and they will stuff you with the most processed, most refined, most high-margin & profitable crap they can get away with.


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## Gadawg (Dec 20, 2018)

MonkeyBusiness said:


> Agreed with this and also adding that its the economic system we live in.
> Food, beverage, agriculture and restaurant industries (to name a few) want more people to consume more of their product however you possibly can.
> Generally, to get you to consume more, companies will add as many "tastey" ingredients as they can - to make your body less able to resist eating more. It's why so many places even put sugar on meat.
> 
> Anyway - when you are viewed by entire industries as nothing but a consumer and those industries have science and advertising firepower lined up to convince you to eat more or differently...unless you're trying damn hard, they're gonna get to you. They will break you and they will stuff you with the most processed, most refined, most high-margin & profitable crap they can get away with.




Im eating tons of the stuff they want you to eat right now bc of a bulk but I dont know how people do this all the time. I cant wait to start cutting next week.


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## November Ajax (Dec 20, 2018)

Don't worry, I trust next time you'll do a clean bulk


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## Gadawg (Dec 20, 2018)

November Ajax said:


> Don't worry, I trust next time you'll do a clean bulk



I dont understand what you just said and I wont respond to it.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 21, 2018)

Worth a share since it goes hand-in-hand with my approach: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46636422

Also, notice the comments. The idea of taxation being a "moral" issue. The idea of those in power being too stupid to fix the epidemic using other methods. All of this coming from the general public who are beyond clueless on the topic. This is why I'm a misogynist.


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## Seeker (Dec 21, 2018)

Zilla, you're killing me with the taxes. lolol do you realise I live in the highest taxed area in the universe? I'm taxed up to my bald spot ony head. lol these asses even tried to get away with taxing our text messaging.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 21, 2018)

Seeker said:


> Zilla, you're killing me with the taxes. lolol do you realise I live in the highest taxed area in the universe? I'm taxed up to my bald spot ony head. lol these asses even tried to get away with taxing our text messaging.


I'm not a fan of many parts of our tax system either man. The idea of me being taxed on income AND capital AND purchases makes no sense to anyone who digs into this for more than 5 mins. However, in this case, it really is justified. Price of junk food must increase as one method of restricting availability. 

I hate the idea of healthy food being much more expensive than junk food. The free market isn't designed to correct this issue. In fact, it's designed to make it worse (supply & demand). So, you take matters into your own hands and tax the **** out of junk food. You then use the proceeds to subsidize healthy food producers (that would be farmers for the most part) who then pass on the savings to consumers. End result? Cheaper, easier, access to healthy food options with restricted (via cost) access to junk food. That is a big win for everyone AFAIC.


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## Seeker (Dec 21, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I'm not a fan of many parts of our tax system either man. The idea of me being taxed on income AND capital AND purchases makes no sense to anyone who digs into this for more than 5 mins. However, in this case, it really is justified. Price of junk food must increase as one method of restricting availability.
> 
> I hate the idea of healthy food being much more expensive than junk food. The free market isn't designed to correct this issue. In fact, it's designed to make it worse (supply & demand). So, you take matters into your own hands and tax the **** out of junk food. You then use the proceeds to subsidize healthy food producers (that would be farmers for the most part) who then pass on the savings to consumers. End result? Cheaper, easier, access to healthy food options with restricted (via cost) access to junk food. That is a big win for everyone AFAIC.



I can't argue with what you just said. Valid points made


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## bigdog (Dec 21, 2018)

I speak from both sides of the fence on this topic. Where I stand now I 100% agree what we eat is a choice just the same as getting in the gym and working. Where I once stood as a "fatfu$*" as they are referred to I allowed excuses and stress to justify 10k calories a day of shitty food. Its cheap and easy to get so I consumed gobs of it. All it got me was up to 472lbs and conjestive heart failure at age 41. I had to either change or die. Money was never the reason I ate bad although that is the reason many do. Today I eat clean and in the gym every day. I still cheat from time to time but a cheat today isn't shit compared to my old habits. I still have my skin issues and scars reminding me of my old life. I still struggle with eating because I'm afraid to over eat and get fat again! I know the type foods are cleaner so I can consume more but its a mental thing at times. I have come a long ass way by simply changing bad habits and moving my ass. its a choice that anyone can make and I try to help as many make the change as I can just because I lived it and know their struggle..... be great my friends!


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## snake (Dec 21, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Tobacco taxes and minimum sales prices worked though.



Taxes had nothing to do with the decrease in smoking. You said it before, it's education. Perception also plays a big factor.


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## MonkeyBusiness (Dec 21, 2018)

snake said:


> Taxes had nothing to do with the decrease in smoking. You said it before, it's education. Perception also plays a big factor.



Snake - anything to back up that claim that taxes have nothing to do with it?


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## November Ajax (Dec 21, 2018)

MonkeyBusiness said:


> Snake - anything to back up that claim that taxes have nothing to do with it?



Please take a look at exhibits A, B and C.
View attachment 7034


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## November Ajax (Dec 21, 2018)

Interesting article in the BBC today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46636422


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## MonkeyBusiness (Dec 21, 2018)

November Ajax said:


> Interesting article in the BBC today:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46636422



Re: Salt:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/17/upshot/salt-diet-heart-failure-little-evidence.html


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 21, 2018)

MonkeyBusiness said:


> Re: Salt:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/17/upshot/salt-diet-heart-failure-little-evidence.html


Low sodium diets can cause just as many problems as high sodium - you want a normal, consistent, intake instead. The issue with salt has more to do with appetite control than anything else.

We have a tendency to crave salty foods due to the vital role that sodium plays in our physiology (vital for nerve function and a shit load of other stuff). Again, a lot of this goes back to the way we evolved. The same principles apply to craving sugar (easy source of energy), avoiding stuff that tastes too bitter (a sign of poisonous food in days gone by), etc. So, the reason junk food is commonly associated with high levels of salt is because the suppliers know that we will eat a tonne of it. They are literally taking advantage of how we are genetically programmed.  

It makes sense to address this too but not through taxation. Very difficult to create a fair system that doesn't also impact high sodium, natural, food sources that people never binge on. It might be better to set some sort of limit on the amount of salt that refined foods contain specifically.


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## MonkeyBusiness (Dec 21, 2018)

Zilla - great point! Moderation in all things...including moderation.
At any rate - sodium and potassium control the way our cells are able to use energy. Stress can throw the sodium-potassium balanace way out of whack and a person could end up needing much more sodium than typically recommended for healthy functioning.
All that to say - each body is different and responds differently to things...which anyone considering AAS probably already knows as a mantra.


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## jennerrator (Dec 21, 2018)

I’m so glad I’m a simple type a person....lmfao!


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## jennerrator (Dec 22, 2018)

This thread reminds me of the *Philosophy *​class I had to take in college...just about killed me but somehow I got a B+...


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