# Test/mast/npp cycle advice



## Theymademe (Nov 30, 2021)

I plan on 
300-400mg test e
400mg of npp and mast e
16-20 weeks
I heard recently about 2:1 test/mast so is it smarter to bump up mast to 6-800 if it’s my first time doing mast?
250test/500 mast is an idea id take as well
Also since I’m doing a 19nor it’ll shut me down for a bit right? So I was thinking 16-20 week cycle of all 3 compounds and then doing 8weeks past that of at least 300mg of just test 
I’m trying to learn good cycle building


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## TomJ (Dec 1, 2021)

This is just my opinion. But I don't think 19nors are worth it if you pct. 

With your plan of dropping the npp and then doing a miniblast for an additional 8 weeks you might as well have just dropped to a cruise dose and b/c. 



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## Theymademe (Dec 1, 2021)

Yeah I do want to pct tbh
Idk why but the b/c throws me off. Idk if it’s a fear thing or I don’t want to take something year round


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 1, 2021)

TomJ said:


> This is just my opinion. But I don't think 19nors are worth it if you pct.
> 
> With your plan of dropping the npp and then doing a miniblast for an additional 8 weeks you might as well have just dropped to a cruise dose and b/c.
> 
> ...


This

19nors and PCT arent a good mix.
No point

Amazing cycle, Test/Mast/Deca, my favorite feelz cycle, quality gains.

But I wouldnt go near it if I wasnt B&C


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 1, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Yeah I do want to pct tbh
> Idk why but the b/c throws me off. Idk if it’s a fear thing or I don’t want to take something year round



Just stick to test and DHTs 
Crank some Primo instead of Deca/Mast, 
Feel great all day/all night, still hit up PCT

The full look Primo gives you is amazing


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## Theymademe (Dec 1, 2021)

Why about pct makes 19nors not worth it? I was under the assumption I could use test while I was waiting for my body to recover from 19nors and then pct from there like 22 day after my last pin of test??? Or would it maybe work if I cruised on test for longer? I wanted to have a few months of no compounds? But I guess after thinking it sounds out loud like what I really want is b/c
Is there anyway my planned cycle works and allows me to pct and go compound free for a few months or longer with any kind of tweaks?
I can’t primo yet atm, but tbh I’d rather choose anavar/test/mast if I could get var. but I already have a thread complaining about var sourcing lmao


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Dec 1, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> I plan on
> 300-400mg test e
> 400mg of npp and mast e
> 16-20 weeks
> ...


NPP is the shorter ester version of Deca so it’ll shut you down but not as long as deca would. I don’t PCT but you should be ok with NPP. 

There’s no magic ratios for any of these compounds. You heard 2:1 for test and mast but guys will also say 2:1 for test and deca. Everyone is different (meaning the placebo effect is different for everyone). 

Keep it simple. Run each compound at the same dose between  300-400 mg/week. Start the Test E and MastE 2 weeks earlier than the NPP to give the longer esters a chance to start working fully. I don’t think you want to run a 16-20 week cycle if you plan to PCT. Consider Test/Mast for 12 weeks and the NPP for 10 weeks. NPP gets pinned EOD (or MWF if you want) so mix the TestE/MastE in on those days too. Just don’t shake the syringe or the compounds will comingle and turn gay and I don’t think you want to inject the gay.


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## TomJ (Dec 1, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Yeah I do want to pct tbh
> Idk why but the b/c throws me off. Idk if it’s a fear thing or I don’t want to take something year round


Maybe swap the NPP for a non 19nor.

Maybe primo or DHB? 


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## Theymademe (Dec 1, 2021)

TomJ said:


> Maybe swap the NPP for a non 19nor.
> 
> Maybe primo or DHB?
> 
> ...


I heard DHB barely works and has mad PIP


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## Theymademe (Dec 1, 2021)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> NPP is the shorter ester version of Deca so it’ll shut you down but not as long as deca would. I don’t PCT but you should be ok with NPP.
> 
> There’s no magic ratios for any of these compounds. You heard 2:1 for test and mast but guys will also say 2:1 for test and deca. Everyone is different (meaning the placebo effect is different for everyone).
> 
> Keep it simple. Run each compound at the same dose between  300-400 mg/week. Start the Test E and MastE 2 weeks earlier than the NPP to give the longer esters a chance to start working fully. I don’t think you want to run a 16-20 week cycle if you plan to PCT. Consider Test/Mast for 12 weeks and the NPP for 10 weeks. NPP gets pinned EOD (or MWF if you want) so mix the TestE/MastE in on those days too. Just don’t shake the syringe or the compounds will comingle and turn gay and I don’t think you want to inject the gay.


I was thinking the mast/test mon/fri
And npp mwf like you suggested


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## TomJ (Dec 1, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> I heard DHB barely works and has mad PIP


I can't say I've never used it, but if you want to pct Your options are dht derivatives and test. 

That leaves mast, eq, DHB, and primo. 

This is 2nd hand information and experience, as I've never tried to run a 19nor and pct, and perhaps the more experienced members can give first hand.
But from all I've heard and read is that 19nors can take months to fully recover from after discontinuing that's not necessarily tied to their half lives. 
Tren ace for example is an incredibly short half life, but I've seen anecdotal reports of up to 6 months to fully recover from. 

If it was me, and I was planning on pcting, I would do just test/mast or test/primo. 

Maybe test+EQ/DHB+mast however I haven't heard or read a cycle log of a combo like that before. 

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## Theymademe (Dec 1, 2021)

TomJ said:


> I can't say I've never used it, but if you want to pct Your options are dht derivatives and test.
> 
> That leaves mast, eq, DHB, and primo.
> 
> ...


Ah okay then in that point I don’t mind b/c
Honestly might just be worth it to wait till I get var when my source reups. I chose npp only because of that and I said fuck it I’ll just make it work lmao


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## TomJ (Dec 1, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Ah okay then in that point I don’t mind b/c
> Honestly might just be worth it to wait till I get var when my source reups. I chose npp only because of that and I said fuck it I’ll just make it work lmao


You could also just do something like:

the blast your planned -> "cruise" -> then a new blast without a 19nor -> then pct. 

Little bit longer commitment time than a single cycle, but still doesn't have you committed permant to B/C



Edit: noticed BBBG commented as well. 
Take what I say with a grain of salt as I don't have a 10th of that guys experience. 


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## Theymademe (Dec 1, 2021)

TomJ said:


> You could also just do something like:
> 
> the blast your planned -> "cruise" -> then a new blast without a 19nor -> then pct.
> 
> ...


Yeah it seems like the best option based on what I want is adhere to the dosages and frequency he suggested, and then b-c-b(no19nor)-pct
I appreciate the both of y’all, I learned a lot!
By the next blast I’m sure I’ll be able to source what I need and may even change my mind by then
I would def get primo if I could afford a whole cycle of it, I’d prefer to get all I need before I start so there’s no worry of not being able to get something when I need it!
Thanks again my dudes


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## gtrainchooch (Dec 1, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> I plan on
> 300-400mg test e
> 400mg of npp and mast e
> 16-20 weeks
> ...


SUP MY GUY! So big thing here with NPP and Mast E... What's good is that none of these are toxic. What's bad is that you will build up a crazy tolerance if you stick with these compounds the whole way through. You will still gain, but you'll have to increase your dosage to get the same effect. 
I think that 500 mast could shut your E2 down or highly suppress it with 250 test, but everyone responds differently. Just make sure your joints feel good still. If your joints are fine and your nips aren't sensitive, your bloodwork SHOULD reflect that with good E2 levels. If you feel estrogen sides from your 400 test, maybe run your 600-800 mast. I'd say mainly if you're not going off bloodwork that if your nips ever get sensitive, increase your mast immediately. OR you could litterally run all of it and stay on raloxifene (mildest serm) or low dose nolva 10mg to stave off the Gyno from higher test dosages. 

I think it would be pretty crazy if you did Test, Primo, and NPP for the first 6 weeks, then Test, Mast, and Dianabol, and then for your final 6-8 weeks, you could literally run Trestolone Acetate 50mg EOD which can be run as a cycle by itself because of it's big estrogen conversion. And then give your body a break from Test E (just for receptor clearance). Interesting idea imo. Best steroid on the market for mass. Also not super toxic. Or for your last 6-8 weeks, you could roll with Test, Anavar and Anadrol Switching the anavar and anadrol Every 2 days so you never have to increase the dosage. 50mg preworkout with those, and then run deca at around 600mg for your last 8 weeks


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Dec 1, 2021)

gtrainchooch said:


> SUP MY GUY! So big thing here with NPP and Mast E... What's good is that none of these are toxic. What's bad is that you will build up a crazy tolerance if you stick with these compounds the whole way through. You will still gain, but you'll have to increase your dosage to get the same effect.
> I think that 500 mast could shut your E2 down or highly suppress it with 250 test, but everyone responds differently. Just make sure your joints feel good still. If your joints are fine and your nips aren't sensitive, your bloodwork SHOULD reflect that with good E2 levels. If you feel estrogen sides from your 400 test, maybe run your 600-800 mast. I'd say mainly if you're not going off bloodwork that if your nips ever get sensitive, increase your mast immediately. OR you could litterally run all of it and stay on raloxifene (mildest serm) or low dose nolva 10mg to stave off the Gyno from higher test dosages.
> 
> I think it would be pretty crazy if you did Test, Primo, and NPP for the first 6 weeks, then Test, Mast, and Dianabol, and then for your final 6-8 weeks, you could literally run Trestolone Acetate 50mg EOD which can be run as a cycle by itself because of it's big estrogen conversion. And then give your body a break from Test E (just for receptor clearance). Interesting idea imo. Best steroid on the market for mass. Also not super toxic. Or for your last 6-8 weeks, you could roll with Test, Anavar and Anadrol Switching the anavar and anadrol Every 2 days so you never have to increase the dosage. 50mg preworkout with those, and then run deca at around 600mg for your last 8 weeks


Yea. Why the fuck not. Yolo. Toss in the kitchen sink too. 

It’s not like trestolone will suppress the HPTA hard or anything. That sounds like the perfect thing to do for a guy that is going to PCT.


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## TeddyBear (Dec 1, 2021)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> NPP is the shorter ester version of Deca so it’ll shut you down but not as long as deca would. I don’t PCT but you should be ok with NPP.
> 
> There’s no magic ratios for any of these compounds. You heard 2:1 for test and mast but guys will also say 2:1 for test and deca. Everyone is different (meaning the placebo effect is different for everyone).
> 
> Keep it simple. Run each compound at the same dose between  300-400 mg/week. Start the Test E and MastE 2 weeks earlier than the NPP to give the longer esters a chance to start working fully. I don’t think you want to run a 16-20 week cycle if you plan to PCT. Consider Test/Mast for 12 weeks and the NPP for 10 weeks. NPP gets pinned EOD (or MWF if you want) so mix the TestE/MastE in on those days too. Just don’t shake the syringe or the compounds will comingle and turn gay and I don’t think you want to inject the gay.


Can confirm. I’m running Test, Mast, Deca and I’m gay.


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## gtrainchooch (Dec 1, 2021)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea. Why the fuck not. Yolo. Toss in the kitchen sink too.
> 
> It’s not like trestolone will suppress the HPTA hard or anything. That sounds like the perfect thing to do for a guy that is going to PCT.


I mean after 16 to 20 weeks on Cycle, HPTA would be shut down anyways, for anybody. Your LH and FSH would need a full restart anyways on any. Just a thought. He'll need a full PCT with an HCG protocol for any 16-20 week cycle with the dosages he first afformentioned. Sticking with the same stacked drugs other than test for the entire 16-20 week cycle is a waste of money in my opinion. You build up a tolerance and have to increase dosages endlessly. Nice to meet!


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## TomJ (Dec 1, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Can confirm. I’m running Test, Mast, Deca and I’m gay.


Oh come on, The tren did that, don't blame the deca or mast. 
I'm using those next cycle. 

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## gtrainchooch (Dec 1, 2021)

gtrainchooch said:


> I mean after 16 to 20 weeks on Cycle, HPTA would be shut down anyways, for anybody. Your LH and FSH would need a full restart anyways on any. Just a thought. He'll need a full PCT with an HCG protocol for any 16-20 week cycle with the dosages he first afformentioned. Sticking with the same stacked drugs other than test for the entire 16-20 week cycle is a waste of money in my opinion. You build up a tolerance and have to increase dosages endlessly. Nice to meet!


Your LH and FSH the 2 components of HPTA for anyone who doesn't know will get shut down after any extended period of time on gear and OP is planning on running a LONG cycle, which I personally like long cycles for more gradual, slower gains. Plus OP was already planning on cruising for 2 extra months with 300 test. HPTA stutdown is imminent. Just don't go crazy with the dosages and switch the drugs.


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

So with b/c do you taper down to a cruise dose you’ll do each week or do you just start the cruise dose you choose the first day of cruise?(bars🔥)
Also is 200mg a week too much for cruise or is 150mg too little?


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> So with b/c do you taper down to a cruise dose you’ll do each week or do you just start the cruise dose you choose the first day of cruise?(bars🔥)
> Also is 200mg a week too much for cruise or is 150mg too little?


This thread took some weird directions.... What are you trying to do?

It sounds like your planning a long cycle, going into a cruise, then right into another cycle, and then a PCT. Is that right???

A huge part of being able to recover is the length of time you're shut down. If you run a cycle for almost a year straight, and yes the cruise counts as part of the cycle, then your chances of recovering drop significantly.

If you don't plan on staying on TRT the rest of your life, stick to shorter cycles with basic compounds. What's wrong with a simple testosterone only cycle???


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> This thread took some weird directions.... What are you trying to do?
> 
> It sounds like your planning a long cycle, going into a cruise, then right into another cycle, and then a PCT. Is that right???
> 
> ...


Damn I didn’t know 16-20 weeks was long. 
I’ve only done one cycle before. And it was only test 500mg for 16 weeks. 
I think I misunderstood the impact of 19nors. I knew it would shut me down but I thought 8 additional weeks of test only was long enough until my test production came back up. 
I’ve learned a lot on this thread.
I starting thinking about the b/c idea during this thread but it wasn’t my original idea 
So it seems that there’s no point in doing npp unless I’m gonna b/c??
Maybe I should just do mast/test/and a third that’s less problematic for me


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## Seeker (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> This thread took some weird directions.... What are you trying to do?
> 
> It sounds like your planning a long cycle, going into a cruise, then right into another cycle, and then a PCT. Is that right???
> 
> ...



Well done.


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Damn I didn’t know 16-20 weeks was long.
> I’ve only done one cycle before. And it was only test 500mg for 16 weeks.
> I think I misunderstood the impact of 19nors. I knew it would shut me down but I thought 8 additional weeks of test only was long enough until my test production came back up.
> I’ve learned a lot on this thread.
> ...


If this is only your 2nd cycle, jumping up to 3 compounds is completely unnecessary. To me it sounds like a little bit of impatience. 

How did you do on your first cycle, both results wise and bloodwork wise? What are your goals for THIS cycle, and where are you at right now?


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Damn I didn’t know 16-20 weeks was long.
> I’ve only done one cycle before. And it was only test 500mg for 16 weeks.
> I think I misunderstood the impact of 19nors. I knew it would shut me down but I thought 8 additional weeks of test only was long enough until my test production came back up.
> I’ve learned a lot on this thread.
> ...


There is a lot of bad information in this thread. The choo-choo gtrain advice in particular.  Read that guy’s other posts. 🤡

There’s also a difference between nandrolone and nandrolone metabolites. Yes, the metabolites will be detectable for a long time afterwards but the metabolites are totally different and dont suppress the HPTA. You can use NPP and then PCT fine after 10-12 weeks (switching over to testosterone and staying on isn’t the answer). 

With that being said, I think @CJ275 is leading you in the correct direction. If you had good results during your first cycle then simply repeat it. There’s no reason to mess with it if it worked well.


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> If this is only your 2nd cycle, jumping up to 3 compounds is completely unnecessary. To me it sounds like a little bit of impatience.
> 
> How did you do on your first cycle, both results wise and bloodwork wise? What are your goals for THIS cycle, and where are you at right now?





BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> There is a lot of bad information in this thread. The choo-choo gtrain advice in particular.  Read that guy’s other posts. 🤡
> 
> There’s also a difference between nandrolone and nandrolone metabolites. Yes, the metabolites will be detectable for a long time afterwards but the metabolites are totally different and dont suppress the HPTA. You can use NPP and then PCT fine after 10-12 weeks (switching over to testosterone and staying on isn’t the answer).
> 
> With that being said, I think @CJ275 is leading you in the correct direction. If you had good results during your first cycle then simply repeat it. There’s no reason to mess with it if it worked well.


To partly answer both, I appreciate y’all taking the time to correct me and others. I’m trying to take a mature approach, but I’m also an impulsive and impatient person naturally. I didn’t find this forum until I was already pretty much done with my first cycle of 500mg weekly test e for 12 weeks which I said duck it and extended to 16 just because I liked pinning which looking back wasn’t the best idea.
Tbh I haven’t done bloods specifically for this, but I have gotten blood work done more than a few times. I’m sure it wasn’t the complete panel specifically needed for exogenous hormones. I haven’t seen it, but “everything is in correct ranges”

My goals for this cycle are mostly strength gains more so than hypertrophy. I do want to drop about 40 pounds of fat as well though.


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> To partly answer both, I appreciate y’all taking the time to correct me and others. I’m trying to take a mature approach, but I’m also an impulsive and impatient person naturally. I didn’t find this forum until I was already pretty much done with my first cycle of 500mg weekly test e for 12 weeks which I said duck it and extended to 16 just because I liked pinning which looking back wasn’t the best idea.
> Tbh I haven’t done bloods specifically for this, but I have gotten blood work done more than a few times. I’m sure it wasn’t the complete panel specifically needed for exogenous hormones. I haven’t seen it, but “everything is in correct ranges”
> 
> My goals for this cycle are mostly strength gains more so than hypertrophy. I do want to drop about 40 pounds of fat as well though.


Oh and my first cycle was dope a shit ton of strength gain and muscle gain. I loved it. I fucked up on eating though lmao. Got depressed and all I do was eat like shit and workout. I also didn’t do cardio this last time.
I’ve thought about oral winstrol, but I don’t want my joints to suffer as I plan to add in Muay Thai during this cycle


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> My goals for this cycle are mostly strength gains more so than hypertrophy. I do want to drop about 40 pounds of fat as well though.


Well these are 2 conflicting goals. Trying to gain strength while dropping 40 pounds simultaneously is a fool's errand.

I'd suggest picking one or the other, and personally I would choose dropping the extra 40 lbs, mostly for health reasons but also aesthetically as well.

Good news is steroids are not even needed to drop bodyfat. When they're used by competitors in a cutting/peaking cycle, it's because they're trying to get to an unnatural and unhealthy level of leaness where the body will do everything in its power to hold onto the last bits of fat, including using lean tissues for fuel, because then survival is the goal. The body thinks its starving, that there's a famine, it has no idea you're getting ready for a contest or photo shoot.

You'll still be able to make progress as YOU lean down though, as the excess stored bodyfat you have will replace the calories the body wants and needs, that an already lean competitor can not do.

I think if you must run a cycle because you feel that you need to, a simple 300 mg of Test will serve you well. No extra compounds/orals needed.


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Oh and my first cycle was dope a shit ton of strength gain and muscle gain. I loved it. I fucked up on eating though lmao. Got depressed and all I do was eat like shit and workout. I also didn’t do cardio this last time.
> I’ve thought about oral winstrol, but I don’t want my joints to suffer as I plan to add in Muay Thai during this cycle


I have the feeling that you think some steroids burn fat, like winstrol or anavar. That's not the case.

These are all ANABOLIC compounds, not catabolic. Heck, Anavar is prescribed to AIDS patients to help stop them from losing weight. It's not a diet drug.

The only way to burn off bodyfat is to either cut it off with a chainsaw, or use it as fuel. I'll assume you prefer the latter option, so that means consuming less calories than your body needs for fuel on a daily basis, so it dips into your stored bodyfat to make up the difference.

You need to stop "eating like shit" as you stated that you were doing.


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Well these are 2 conflicting goals. Trying to gain strength while dropping 40 pounds simultaneously is a fool's errand.
> 
> I'd suggest picking one or the other, and personally I would choose dropping the extra 40 lbs, mostly for health reasons but also aesthetically as well.
> 
> ...


Yknow I think doing a body recomp would make me mentally feel better than just more strength just for the sake of more strength when I don’t even compete anywhere. My PRs where they’re at are good enough for me right now. I’m confident I can keep them around the same while recomping for a bit on a cycle. Looking at it now npp is too serious for where I’m at. My boy hopped on tren recently and I remember thinking wtf you’re nowhere near a spot where you’d need it. And look at me now lol thinking about npp
I hope to become a contributing member of this forum one day


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> I have the feeling that you think some steroids burn fat, like winstrol or anavar. That's not the case.
> 
> These are all ANABOLIC compounds, not catabolic. Heck, Anavar is prescribed to AIDS patients to help stop them from losing weight. It's not a diet drug.
> 
> ...


I’ll eat really well and then get depressed out of nowhere and just eat like shit. And even not depressed your boy can eat like a mf 
I was in the psych ward and got out and lost hella progress and through a situation in life I felt the need to start a cycle. And I want to approach this one with a healthier mindset and more education


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Yknow I think doing a body recomp would make me mentally feel better than just more strength just for the sake of more strength when I don’t even compete anywhere. My PRs where they’re at are good enough for me right now. I’m confident I can keep them around the same while recomping for a bit on a cycle. Looking at it now npp is too serious for where I’m at. My boy hopped on tren recently and I remember thinking wtf you’re nowhere near a spot where you’d need it. And look at me now lol thinking about npp
> I hope to become a contributing member of this forum one day


It's normal to think these things, we probably all did. I know I did. 

Problem is you never hear of the bad effects of these drugs, only the results. I've used low dose Tren a few times, never gone over 245 mg/week. That dose makes me feel like shit, absolutely destroys my lipids/cholesterol panel, and by week 6 I'm like.... Fukk this shit. 

The 19-nors, like Tren, NPP, and DECA also screw with your brain chemistry a bit. I know personally that 400 mg Deca had my brain/thoughts being not like myself by the end of the cycle.


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> I’ll eat really well and then get depressed out of nowhere and just eat like shit. And even not depressed your boy can eat like a mf
> I was in the psych ward and got out and lost hella progress and through a situation in life I felt the need to start a cycle. And I want to approach this one with a healthier mindset and more education


I was going to suggest making speaking to a therapist. It sounds like eating is your way of dealing with stress.


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Oh, just so you know, not all of us use crazy doses of these drugs. 

Your first cycle of 500mg Test is already more Test than I've EVER used on a cycle. 

I'm many cycles deep, and I run stuff like 400 Test with 400 NPP, and I'll do a cutting cycle with something like 175 Test, 175 Tren, and 50 Winny/Anavar(and this is completely overkill in my opinion, but I do it anyway). Nothing very exciting.


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## TODAY (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> I’ll eat really well and then get depressed out of nowhere and just eat like shit. And even not depressed your boy can eat like a mf
> I was in the psych ward and got out and lost hella progress and through a situation in life I felt the need to start a cycle. And I want to approach this one with a healthier mindset and more education


I might be in the minority here, but I'd STRONGLY caution against heavy androgen use if you have a history of moderate to sever psychological issues. Androgens can absolutely exacerbate underlying psychological problems.


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

TODAY said:


> I might be in the minority here, but I'd STRONGLY caution against heavy androgen use if you have a history of moderate to sever psychological issues. Androgens can absolutely exacerbate underlying psychological problems.


100% agree, and add the 19-nors to that as well.


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Oh, just so you know, not all of us use crazy doses of these drugs.
> 
> Your first cycle of 500mg Test is already more Test than I've EVER used on a cycle.
> 
> I'm many cycles deep, and I run stuff like 400 Test with 400 NPP, and I'll do a cutting cycle with something like 175 Test, 175 Tren, and 50 Winny/Anavar(and this is completely overkill in my opinion, but I do it anyway). Nothing very exciting.


I did 500 mg a week test e knowing it was too much and tbh I’m not sure why. Maybe it was the person I was getting advice from.
I mostly have YouTube to source info, and I fall into the category of mostly watching mpmd 
People have asked me about using and I tell them there was no reason for me to run that especially first time. I hear winstrol thins your skin, does this make receiving a tattoo a no no?


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

TODAY said:


> I might be in the minority here, but I'd STRONGLY caution against heavy androgen use if you have a history of moderate to sever psychological issues. Androgens can absolutely exacerbate underlying psychological problems.


I wouldn’t necessarily say severe just major depressive and borderline personality but the gym makes me feel like everything is ok. I’m tryna mogg nahm saying?


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> I was going to suggest making speaking to a therapist. It sounds like eating is your way of dealing with stress.


So I’m employed by a company where you wear camouflage everyday…👀
I’ve been going to therapy for the last 12 months because they supply it, and I’m on anxiety meds and antidepressants. I’ve come such a long way this whole year. My therapist is mad dope b


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## TODAY (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> I wouldn’t necessarily say severe just major depressive and borderline personality but the gym makes me feel like everything is ok. I’m tryna mogg nahm saying?


You know better than I do, but you were in a psych ward, my dude.

In any case, people often overlook the fact that these drugs DO have neurological and emotional effects. For most, these effects SEEM relatively minor, but some people do experience profound and often irreversible changes to their neurochemistry and/or emotional wellbeing.

Please tread carefully.


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> I did 500 mg a week test e knowing it was too much and tbh I’m not sure why. Maybe it was the person I was getting advice from.
> I mostly have YouTube to source info, and I fall into the category of mostly watching mpmd
> People have asked me about using and I tell them there was no reason for me to run that especially first time. I hear winstrol thins your skin, does this make receiving a tattoo a no no?


Winny is a drug that's basically useless from a physique standpoint unless one is already lean. It help give you a dry look, but it will not do that if there's excess bodyfat. That's where I believe it's reputation for being hard on the joints comes from, the drying you out. 

What it provides in a strength boost can be achieved better from other drugs. It's not really something one takes with the intent of a neurological strength boost pre workout. 

It's nothing magical, none of the really are. Most of the results come from the diet and training, the drugs just speed up the growth.


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

TODAY said:


> You know better than I do, but you were in a psych ward, my dude.
> 
> In any case, people often overlook the fact that these drugs DO have neurological and emotional effects. For most, these effects SEEM relatively minor, but some people do experience profound and often irreversible changes to their neurochemistry and/or emotional wellbeing.
> 
> Please tread carefully.


True shit! I can only agree


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Winny is a drug that's basically useless from a physique standpoint unless one is already lean. It help give you a dry look, but it will not do that if there's excess bodyfat. That's where I believe it's reputation for being hard on the joints comes from, the drying you out.
> 
> What it provides in a strength boost can be achieved better from other drugs. It's not really something one takes with the intent of a neurological strength boost pre workout.
> 
> It's nothing magical, none of the really are. Most of the results come from the diet and training, the drugs just speed up the growth.


Which dht are known for the neurological strength boost? I can only think of anavar or anadrol. I don’t have any intentions of anadrol at the moment.


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## CJ (Dec 2, 2021)

Theymademe said:


> Which dht are known for the neurological strength boost? I can only think of anavar or anadrol. I don’t have any intentions of anadrol at the moment.


Stick to one goal sir. 

Confucius says... "The man who chases two rabbits catches neither."


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## Theymademe (Dec 2, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Stick to one goal sir.
> 
> Confucius says... "The man who chases two rabbits catches neither."


Oh I’m just curious 
Confucius say “ask a bunch of dumb questions instead of doing dumb shit”


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## Thahulk (Jul 13, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> NPP is the shorter ester version of Deca so it’ll shut you down but not as long as deca would. I don’t PCT but you should be ok with NPP.
> 
> There’s no magic ratios for any of these compounds. You heard 2:1 for test and mast but guys will also say 2:1 for test and deca. Everyone is different (meaning the placebo effect is different for everyone).
> 
> Keep it simple. Run each compound at the same dose between  300-400 mg/week. Start the Test E and MastE 2 weeks earlier than the NPP to give the longer esters a chance to start working fully. I don’t think you want to run a 16-20 week cycle if you plan to PCT. Consider Test/Mast for 12 weeks and the NPP for 10 weeks. NPP gets pinned EOD (or MWF if you want) so mix the TestE/MastE in on those days too. Just don’t shake the syringe or the compounds will comingle and turn gay and I don’t think you want to inject the gay.


This is old but I personally like the even doses.


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