# The Gufftastic Journal



## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

So if any of you have read my intro in the "new members" section you already know a little bit about me. 

I've taken a cycle of "Tren Xtreme" in the past. 10 week cycle i believe. Oral Designer Steroid. I took milk thistle during cycle, and Clomid for PCT. I'm currently thinking about replicating that but open to suggestions. 

That tren cycle i did back in 2008 I was able to put on 30lbs in 12 weeks, and then maintain 20lbs of it after the cycle is over, and i have those same goals in mind today. My weight starting this journey is the same as it was back in 2008. 

I'm 6'1, 170lbs... So my goal will be 200lbs by the end of the 10 week tren cycle (pinning this time.. cant find any pills). Milk thistle during cycle (unless someone has better recommendation). And 50mg Clomid for PCT. Fish oil also.

I plan on taking 90G protein powder a day (30g 3x) and Green Magnitude Creatine (it's what i used in the past.. i liked it.. and they still make it.. but open to ideas here as well).

My diet probably wont be "on point" by most people's standards.. but i'll give an idea of what it will look like.

Breakfast will be a few hard boiled eggs, 1-2 pieces of bacon. Tall glass of chocolate whole milk. 30g protein powder. Some grapes, strawberries, or blue berries

Lunch will pretty consistently be a ham, turkey, or chicken sandwich.. Mayo, spinach, and a lunch cheese on it... a banana and some mixed nuts. 30g protein powder

Dinner typically consists of Chicken, Pork, Steak (or beef of some sort). Sometimes we will throw a fish into the mix (talapia or salmon). My wife has celiac disease so any pastas (like lasagna, chicken penne etc..) are with gluten free noodles. ... 30g protein powder.

Sides are always either Rice, Mashed potatoes, or mac n cheese... Then corn, broccoli, or asparagus

Definitely open to ideas with diet, and will probably do some interwebs searching because i already know i'll be eating like a horse. 

Been a while since ive been the gym so im trying to go off of memory here.. definitely open to suggestions. The plan is to be in the gym mon-fri. 5 days. here's a rough idea. 3-4 exercises per muscle group. 3 sets of 10.. 3rd set might go a little heavier and do less reps.

Mon - Biceps/core
Tue - back/shoulders
wed - Legs/core
Thu - Chest
Fri - Triceps/core

I'll wait to see what type of feed back i get tonight, positive and negative.. take it into consideration... And then pull the trigger on the gear and creatine tomorrow night... or any other adjustments.

Getting the gym membership tomorrow. I plan on working out 4-5 weeks before i start pinning (i know people will have opinions about that. sorry)

I just got a call from a local "men's wellness" clinic and I should be getting bloodwork this coming Tuesday. I'll post the results of that here some time next week. 

Pictures to come soon.. most of which i've been told need to be nude, and i'm not one to disappoint.


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

There is a small chance this bloodwork could come back with low T (wouldnt surprise me) .. and i just get prescribed test and all of this gear shit goes out the window. 

that could happen lol.. but everything else will stay in place and i'll just log how the journey goes with TRT


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

holy shit i have 25 posts i can send nudes privately now.


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## Trump (Jun 23, 2021)

is there any test in this plan?

What’s does core 3 times a week consist of?


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

forgot to mention i plan on getting a speed bag and doing some biking/running for cardio

my goal is not to get massive. I want to be sitting at 200lbs at the end of the cycle, and then maintain 190.. never to do another cycle again. I feel good and look good at that weight. It works for me.


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

smguffer said:


> holy shit i have 25 posts i can send nudes privately now.




there currently is not.

core exercises will vary quite a bit. situps (with and without weights), incline situps, crunches, flutter kicks, planks.. i was military for 4 years and we did a lot of different core exercises.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 23, 2021)

smguffer said:


> forgot to mention i plan on getting a speed bag and doing some biking/running for cardio
> 
> my goal is not to get massive. I want to be sitting at 200lbs at the end of the cycle, and then maintain 190.. never to do another cycle again. I feel good and look good at that weight. It works for me.



Its a good sentiment. But this is technically your second cycle (albeit with a long break between).

I can’t and don’t judge. I tell kids all the time to stay away from gear, but I fell to the dark side myself. The gains don’t feel the same without and it’s real demotivating to come off. Be prepared for that.

Hopefully you don’t have an addictive personality.

Im by and large a very disciplined person, so when I discovered lifting I quickly grew fond of it, but even my discipline was no match for the lure of another cycle.


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## Trump (Jun 23, 2021)

Let me get this correct your doing a tren only cycle, at what dose.
During this 15 week tren cycle your going to be hitting the bag running cycling and lifting 5 days a week. 

For a second we will ignore the stupidity of a tren on cycle. How many calories to you think you can consume doing all that exercise to gain 30lb while taking tren. Even some of the most experienced guys on here have to push there calories so high on tren to gain 4 lb and they ain’t doing allnthay cardio


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Its a good sentiment. But this is technically your second cycle (albeit with a long break between).
> 
> I can’t and don’t judge. I tell kids all the time to stay away from gear, but I fell to the dark side myself. The gains don’t feel the same without and it’s real demotivating to come off. Be prepared for that.
> 
> ...




good advice i definitely appreciate it and understand. I've actually done 2 cycles. 1 when i was 18 with no PCT. a friend's sister's boyfriend got me and my friend on it. super dumb looking back on it.. and im actually wondering if that had any long lasting affects on my testosterone levels. will be interesting to see what my bloodwork shows next week. 

luckily i was happy both times to only do the 1 cycle to get me the early jump start and keep me motivated, and didnt give it much thought afterwards.


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

Trump said:


> Let me get this correct your doing a tren only cycle, at what dose.
> During this 15 week tren cycle your going to be hitting the bag running cycling and lifting 5 days a week.
> 
> For a second we will ignore the stupidity of a tren on cycle. How many calories to you think you can consume doing all that exercise to gain 30lb while taking tren. Even some of the most experienced guys on here have to push there calories so high on tren to gain 4 lb and they ain’t doing allnthay cardio



the most educated and well thought out answer i can give is "as many calories as my body tells me to eat"

not a 15 week cycle. 5 weeks pre-cycle. 10 weeks of actual cycle. 

open to ideas on dosing.

i've already done this once in 2008 while deployed in Iraq, except i did it in less time(12 weeks total).. and i did it running 2-4 miles a day 5 days a week (Army PT.. my first sergeant loved ****ing running.)  assuming the gear i get is the same quality as the tren pills i took in the past, this shouldnt be a problem for me/my body type. And i won $200 on that bet (you cant put on 30lbs in 3 months!), $100 from 2 different buddies.


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## Jin (Jun 23, 2021)

smguffer said:


> forgot to mention i plan on getting a speed bag and doing some biking/running for cardio
> 
> my goal is not to get massive. I want to be sitting at 200lbs at the end of the cycle, and then maintain 190.. never to do another cycle again. I feel good and look good at that weight. It works for me.



6’ @ 190 ripped AF does not necessitate steroids. You could easily do that natural. 

But by all means, do what you want and we’ll support you.


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## 69nites (Jun 23, 2021)

1 cycle to hit 190 at 6'1" I wouldn't even bother with a cycle. That's about where I would want someone to get before getting on.

Compromising natural production to get where you could get naturally faster isn't worth.


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

I feel like 1 cycle to get to 190 is healthier than 10 cycles to get to 250. 

we're probably going to disagree on that though.


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

https://ibb.co/5sydzpP me around 170
https://ibb.co/WtSHdtY me around 170

https://ibb.co/kMrc3Lt me around 190 (maintained that weight after the cycle i talked about)


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## CJ (Jun 23, 2021)

No offense, I like you, but your plan is pretty terrible.... For multiple reasons.

Tren only cycle, no Test? Very bad idea.

Gsin 30 lbs in 10 weeks on that cycle? Incredibly unlikely, and if it happens, it will NOT be good weight. You can only gain so much muscle at a given time, steroids or not, there's a limit on how fast you can grow. 

Your diet layout is terrible. Another hurdle to the weight gain you desire.

Tren isn't the best drug to gain with, in my opinion. It makes you feel terrible and want to come off fairly quickly. There are much better choices, in my opinion. Drugs that make you feel good, can stay on for longer, and lay down some decent tissue. A short cycle and the gains more than likely won't stick. 

I really hope your blood work comes back showing the need for TRT, and you are put on and follow a proper protocol. Even if you aren't, I highly recommend you abort your initial plan, and follow a better one.


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

Shitty quality... Shitty lighting.. Wasnt even supposed to be taking this video.. You're going to have to probably turn up the brightness on whatever device you're using, But this is me around 200. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncKInSz4MYI


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

I'm definitely open to suggestions.. thats why im posting this. I'll be someone's guinea pig if they have a better idea. 

i'll follow a laid out dosage plan.. meal plan.. but if i cant get that, the only thing i can do is what i know and what has worked for me in the past.


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## smguffer (Jun 23, 2021)

I'm going to wait and see what this men's health clinic says. what the blood results show.. i'd rather not be on a life long TRT schedule, but if thats what the blood work calls for thats what i'll do. 

if not, and there's nothing they can do.. the only thing i know is to go the gear route.. and do the best i can with whatever assistance anyone is willing to offer.


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## CJ (Jun 23, 2021)

smguffer said:


> I'm going to wait and see what this men's health clinic says. what the blood results show.. i'd rather not be on a life long TRT schedule, but if thats what the blood work calls for thats what i'll do.
> 
> if not, and there's nothing they can do.. the only thing i know is to go the gear route.. and do the best i can with whatever assistance anyone is willing to offer.



Definitely wait to see what the bloodwork shows.

And hold off on buying the Tren. If your bloodwork comes back fine and no TRT is warranted, Tren still isn't the answer to your problem. Testosterone only will easily get you back to where you were, and even that probably isn't needed.


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## 69nites (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> I feel like 1 cycle to get to 190 is healthier than 10 cycles to get to 250.
> 
> we're probably going to disagree on that though.


It's not about health, it's about necessity. Sacrificing health for results attainable without steroids vs sacrificing health for something unachievable without them.

What you'd be doing is what I consider wasting a blast. You don't have training and diet dialed to a point that you can grow without AAS so you're trying to throw them at the problem.

You've already done a shitty oral only cycle, and still don't look like you lift with your shirt off. 

If you want to use aas like a get big quick tool go ahead, but you're taxing your body for no reason. You can realistically meet your long term goals in a year or 2 just by learning how to eat and train.


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## 69nites (Jun 24, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Definitely wait to see what the bloodwork shows.
> 
> And hold off on buying the Tren. If your bloodwork comes back fine and no TRT is warranted, Tren still isn't the answer to your problem. Testosterone only will easily get you back to where you were, and even that probably isn't needed.



It's not tren, it's a shitty oral steroid flying around in the grey market. It's the new generation's superdrol but not as good.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Definitely wait to see what the bloodwork shows.
> 
> And hold off on buying the Tren. If your bloodwork comes back fine and no TRT is warranted, Tren still isn't the answer to your problem. Testosterone only will easily get you back to where you were, and even that probably isn't needed.



ill give updates on the clinic and blood results. i'll hold off on ordering the gear for now. and in the mean time i will be reading through the forums trying to educate myself on potentially different solutions.

and i'd invite anyone reading this to either give opinions in this thread or send me a private message with ideas.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

69nites said:


> It's not about health, it's about necessity. Sacrificing health for results attainable without steroids vs sacrificing health for something unachievable without them.
> 
> What you'd be doing is what I consider wasting a blast. You don't have training and diet dialed to a point that you can grow without AAS so you're trying to throw them at the problem.
> 
> ...




we all have different goals. different reasons for those goals. different ideas on how to reach them. different opinions on what is or is not appropriate for specific individuals. i respect your opinion but i think we're ultimately just going to have to agree to disagree. id like to try to avoid an ongoing argument where i dont think we're going to see eye to eye.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

im looking into pinning tren. cant find any oral tren with this particular source.


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## CJ (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> ill give updates on the clinic and blood results. i'll hold off on ordering the gear for now. and in the mean time i will be reading through the forums trying to educate myself on potentially different solutions.
> 
> and i'd invite anyone reading this to either give opinions in this thread or send me a private message with ideas.



There should be no ideas or planning until bloodwork comes back. You need all the information first. 

Don't get locked into a plan when it might not even be applicable, it'll be hard for you to backtrack.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> There should be no ideas or planning until bloodwork comes back. You need all the information first.
> 
> Don't get locked into a plan when it might not even be applicable, it'll be hard for you to backtrack.



im like a squirrel on crack. i can pivot in any direction at any time. makes trading easier 

no problem admitting when im wrong on something, very willing to change trajectory as soon as available information changes.

but it has to be new information that i havent already considered and anticipated


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## CJ (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> we all have different goals. different reasons for those goals. different ideas on how to reach them. different opinions on what is or is not appropriate for specific individuals. i respect your opinion but i think we're ultimately just going to have to agree to disagree. id like to try to avoid an ongoing argument where i dont think we're going to see eye to eye.



With all due respect, we aren't against steroids here... Obviously. 

But there are best practices, there are also questionable decisions but whatever, fine.... But there are also absolute no-no's. Things that are just plain wrong and/or dangerous.

What you have been planning falls squarely into the no-no category.

Ask yourself.... Why would we lie to you?


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

i think if we're honest with ourselves we are all a bit hard headed and have tunnel vision to some extent. i'd imagine the majority of us went into this relatively blindly.. hoping for the best. and we learned along the way. 

my downfall is i dont know how to not be blunt/honest. people have always taken it the wrong way. they will always continue to take it the wrong way.. i expect confrontation but im definitely not looking for it, and im going to try to minimize it as best i can.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

i need help. everyone knows my goals and i think by now should understand that im going to achieve those goals in some way shape or form with some type of PEDS. 

for me, a public or private message detailing an alternative path will be more beneficial than just saying im doing it all wrong.

im well aware that you, 69, trump and many others are infinitely more knowledgable on this than i am, and probably have already formed an opinion of exactly what i should do.. 

but if i dont get that feedback i just gotta go with what i know.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

ill go to the clinic and get the blood work done. ill let everyone know what they have to say and post the results. so i'll hold off on any more talk of any gear until that's all figured out. 

if they can't help i would greatly appreciate any other detailed suggestions anyone else has, excluding "just work out naturally for a year" lol


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## CJ (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> i need help. everyone knows my goals and i think by now should understand that im going to achieve those goals in some way shape or form with some type of PEDS.
> 
> for me, a public or private message detailing an alternative path will be more beneficial than just saying im doing it all wrong.
> 
> ...



Post #15 told you why your plan was poor, and it's not even the entire picture, as there's notorious mental side effects from Tren that haven't been discussed yet. Also not discussed is the crazy hormone imbalance you're going to cause with your Tren only cycle. 

Post #19 talks about a better alternative, if you're determined to use steroids.

And also, how do you plan on PCT'ing out of this? You do know that you're going to feel absolutely terrible during that time. Are you prepared for that, with all the other things you've told us recently? 

Also, I don't know what you were taking before when you say oral Tren, but I'm 99.9% sure it's going to be a different animal entirely from what you're going to be taking.

You're very stubborn, we're trying to help you, but you're determined to drive off this cliff.


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## 69nites (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> i need help. everyone knows my goals and i think by now should understand that im going to achieve those goals in some way shape or form with some type of PEDS.
> 
> for me, a public or private message detailing an alternative path will be more beneficial than just saying im doing it all wrong.
> 
> ...


The alternate path is to get your gym membership, do a food log to find your maintenance calories, eat around a 500 calorie daily surplus for a year and train hard. If you get to a point you can't gain mass without gaining too much fat, then you start thinking about pharmacology. 

You don't want to be huge, your goals are easily attainable. If you want to take something OTC that you don't have to pin, look into ecto steroids like turkesterone that won't interfere with your hpta.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

ive been up front and honest that i've done something similar in the past.. and that worked for me.. i didnt have any negative side effects. no mental problems.

i didnt understand the #19 "testosterone only will get you back..." when i read it the first time. so thanks for that suggestion. 

#15 if the bloodwork comes back and im still hell bent on this direciton, i would really appreciate if you could elaborate on that.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

69nites said:


> The alternate path is to get your gym membership, do a food log to find your maintenance calories, eat around a 500 calorie daily surplus for a year and train hard. If you get to a point you can't gain mass without gaining too much fat, then you start thinking about pharmacology.
> 
> You don't want to be huge, your goals are easily attainable. If you want to take something OTC that you don't have to pin, look into ecto steroids like turkesterone that won't interfere with your hpta.



i appreciate that and ill start researching both right now


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## Jin (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> ive been up front and honest that i've done something similar in the past.. and that worked for me.. i didnt have any negative side effects. no mental problems.
> 
> i didnt understand the #19 "testosterone only will get you back..." when i read it the first time. so thanks for that suggestion.
> 
> #15 if the bloodwork comes back and im still hell bent on this direciton, i would really appreciate if you could elaborate on that.




Since you’re ok with direct sentiments (and I am not trying to be mean just to be mean): In no photo that I saw did you look like you had touched a weight in your life. 

Your plan to use steroids to get to 190 is a joke. “Agree to disagree” with one of the most capable practitioners of aas on this board(69)? What hubris. 

You don’t know shit about gaining weight. That’s why you’re not paying attention to CJ who is another brilliant mind. 

You’re being foolish by going forward with your shit plan. You’ll prove yourself an actual fool of you don’t listen to CJ and 69. 

I’m 6’1 245 and ripped. And I haven’t touched a steroid other than a 150 trt dose of test in over 11 months. 

Suck it up buttercup. Pick up a fork. Get in the gym. Blood, sweat and years.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

sir did you not see the beast hitting the speed bag. 

that guy lifts.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

Not that im going to do it, but reading some other posts, adding Test to a cycle seems to be everyone's go-to. 

just looking at the TRT section, everyone is saying "if you start test it's a life long thing"

why can they use test with a cycle, and then come off of it, but not even suggested that coming off of it if you're on TRT? .. Or can you come off of it just as long as you use a PCT afterwards and dont have prolonged use (more than a 8-10 week cycle)


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## Jin (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> sir did you not see the beast hitting the speed bag.
> 
> that guy lifts.




We have different visions of what a beast is. 

Check your pride at the door when you log in here homie. You’ll never learn with that in the way.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

it was a joke.. but i was very happy with my physical condition. i was exactly where i wanted to be. i intentionally lost weight when i got above 200. everyone has different goals.


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## ftf (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> Not that im going to do it, but reading some other posts, adding Test to a cycle seems to be everyone's go-to.
> 
> just looking at the TRT section, everyone is saying "if you start test it's a life long thing"
> 
> why can they use test with a cycle, and then come off of it, but not even suggested that coming off of it if you're on TRT? .. Or can you come off of it just as long as you use a PCT afterwards and dont have prolonged use (more than a 8-10 week cycle)



A cycle of test is for a limited amount of time and might involve drugs that prevent shutting down your natural production. 
TRT goes on for so long that you most likely will not be able to recover natural production if you stop. 

Also, to those who aren't paying attention here, getting on gear is not just a shortcut to getting big for this guy. I think he is trying to find a way to feel better. A lot of you TRT guys say life is so much better for you with the exogenous test I think you would understand. I know I get it. Depression is what led me to the gym and to my first foray into testosterone and to here. Now I am planning my second cycle and counting the days until I can pin again. 

Guffer, you gotta listen to these guys and have some patience. Don't do a tren only cycle. Leave tren for down the road and just get your bloodwork first and maybe do a test only cycle to start. Get your mind right boy. (cool hand Luke reference) :32 (20):


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## 69nites (Jun 24, 2021)

smguffer said:


> Not that im going to do it, but reading some other posts, adding Test to a cycle seems to be everyone's go-to.
> 
> just looking at the TRT section, everyone is saying "if you start test it's a life long thing"
> 
> why can they use test with a cycle, and then come off of it, but not even suggested that coming off of it if you're on TRT? .. Or can you come off of it just as long as you use a PCT afterwards and dont have prolonged use (more than a 8-10 week cycle)


If you start TRT you're most likely going to be on it for the rest of your life. Not if you do a cycle of test. 

After you're on for years the likelihood of restarting your atrophied gonads is not very high.

Doing a cycle of test is no more likely to shut you down permanently than anything else. Nandrolone derivatives actually shut down your natural production more than testosterone or DHT derivatives.

The reason you're seeing the comments about lifelong commitment is you're looking in the subforum for people that are thinking of going on test year round.


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## CJ (Jun 24, 2021)

A Testosterone base of any cycle is highly recommended, in part because of all the things we like about its actions on the androgen receptors, ie muscle building, but for other reasons as well.

It metabolizes down to DHT, dihydrotestosterone, and estrogens. They are important for sexual health, cognitive function, feeling good and just general well being. There are other things to like about them, but you get the idea.

Trenbolone metabolizes into neither of those things, your hormones will be very out of whack.

And for what it's worth, you weren't taking trenbolone before, it was a pro hormone. It probably wasn't even related to Trenbolone. It was probably whatever was cheapest that worked to some degree. You honestly have no idea what it was, so I wouldn't use that as a reference in any way. The injectable Tren is going to be NOTHING like whatever you were using before.


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## Jin (Jun 24, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> A Testosterone base of any cycle is highly recommended, in part because of all the things we like about its actions on the androgen receptors, ie muscle building, but for other reasons as well.
> 
> It metabolizes down to DHT, dihydrotestosterone, and estrogens. They are important for sexual health, cognitive function, feeling good and just general well being. There are other things to like about them, but you get the idea.
> 
> ...



Yes. 

And if you are low testosterone then a tren only cycle will not make you feel better!

Lets wait for the blood work and then take it from there.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

appreciate the info. 

yeah ftf thanks for bringing that up. 

at the lowest level, the only reason i have any desire to do any of this is because im not right in the head right now. suffering from depression and i know nobody likes to admit it but suicidal thoughts. taboo topic but i think we all have had them at some point in our life. 

the happiest i have ever been was when i was on that cycle in 2008. in the gym. 

the unfortunate reality (i wish it wasnt like this) is that i know myself well enough, know how my mind works, to know that that i am 100% likely to stay in the gym if i am getting un-natural results initially. the "tren"(whatever it was) put me in a mind set where my muscles were screaming at me to lift weight. they're just the initial motivation. 

Right now my brain is saying:

1) find gear
2) order gear and have it in your posession
3) force yourself to work out for a month without it (i know thats not near long enough in any of your minds.. i understand and respect that)
4) reward yourself with the gear after you cross that hurdle
5) kick things into high gear with the cycle
6) finish the cycle and maintain as much of the benefits as possible
7) by this point... i will have been in the gym for a few months... reaping all of the mental and physical benefits of the work i put in.. and much more likely to continue the life style gear free... hopefully in a much healthier state of mind. 

thats just how my mind works. what its telling me to do.. the solution it came up with.. because nothing else is working.

and ive known myself long enough to know that unless this TRT clinic comes up with some better solution (which i desperately hope they do), that going the route i discussed has the highest probability of success for me personally. for the way my mind works.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

Ive tried almost everything else to get right in the head. this wasnt my first idea. its a last ditch effort.


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## smguffer (Jun 24, 2021)

Looking forward to what the clinic says and what the bloodwork shows. ill focus on that before anything else.


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## Trendkill (Jun 24, 2021)

I have battled depression, crushing anxiety and severe OCD.  What you need is counseling, a solid and long term daily routine that includes lifting and possibly alternative pharmaceutical enhancement i.e. SSRI.  Mental health should not be a taboo subject.  I have zero experience with gear but I have a ton of experience managing mental health and teaching myself to overcome.  You don't need tren or any other AAS right now.  There is no short term "fix" that will last forever with the symptoms you are currently experiencing.  This is something that you need help with.  Professional help.  Find it, get yourself right and then move forward with your additional goals.


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## CohibaRobusto (Jun 24, 2021)

Dude I was like the same height and weight as you when I started out. My first year was natural, and I ended up just doing a recomp and not really putting on any weight. Then I came here and started learning about the importance of diet. I followed the group consensus about just doing a testosterone-only cycle for my first cycle and had great results. That along with eating properly finally had me start gaining weight.

I ended up putting on good weight and got up to 210, but then had some heart issues that I had ignored for a long time. To avoid any of that, always keep an eye on your blood pressure and heart rate. See a doctor if you feel anything out of the ordinary or if your blood pressure stays high.

Today, I'm recovering from the heart stuff and feel great. I've been able to hold around 200 lbs with natural testosterone levels.

I ended up getting on TRT during this time, because my testosterone levels were fluctuating from time to time, and I felt bad when they were low. Listen to these guys though, because they know what they are talking about.


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## Jin (Jun 24, 2021)

Suicidal thoughts are definitely not a taboo subject on this board. We encourage people to share those thoughts and be supported here. 

I know I’ve had them. In the past they were persistent and strong.


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## HollyWoodCole (Jun 24, 2021)

I honestly had a strong post in your intro thread because I could tell you were going to have a shit plan and not going to want to listen to experienced adults that have no reason to lie to you.  I stand by my original statements as for what your plan should be.  The fact that your log is two days old and three pages long should be telling to you......stop. 

What you took back in the day was almost certainly not tren, and I've not seen oral tren anyway, and if you look at my join date, I've been around for a minute.  

We will discourage and likely ridicule the execution of your plan as it sits today.  

We will most certainly support and listen to anything you have to say about mental health, because that is no joking matter.  Many of us like to drop some zingers here and there but that is a line we don't cross because most here have experienced loss and battles of our own, for years.  

Me personally, I battled an autoimmune disorder that literally made me think I was crazy and had suicidal thoughts more times than I can say.  I can tell you from experience getting a bag full of gear and putting on 20-30lbs of muscle is not what you NEED.  It is simply what you think you need to help yourself, so you have become obsessed with the idea.


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