# Cabergoline



## bugman (Nov 6, 2014)

ok.  i read some stuff on in.. lots of big words.  i found some of this stuff while i was looking for something else.  anybody have some layman terms for a dummy regarding this???   i was looking for clen but this was in its place....


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## Bro Bundy (Nov 6, 2014)

caber is used when running nandrolone or trenbolone ..It helps keep your progesterone levels in check, also helps with sex drive and mood


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## Pinkbear (Nov 6, 2014)

Cabergoline (brand names Caberlin, Dostinex and Cabaser), an ergot derivative, is a potent dopamine receptor agonist on D2 receptors. Rat studies show cabergoline has a direct inhibitory effect on pituitary lactotroph (prolactin) cells.[1] It is frequently used as a first-line agent in the management of prolactinomas due to higher affinity for D2 receptor sites, less severe side effects, and more convenient dosing schedule than the older bromocriptine.


Found this with google.


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## bugman (Nov 6, 2014)

Pinkbear said:


> Cabergoline (brand names Caberlin, Dostinex and Cabaser), an ergot derivative, is a potent dopamine receptor agonist on D2 receptors. Rat studies show cabergoline has a direct inhibitory effect on pituitary lactotroph (prolactin) cells.[1] It is frequently used as a first-line agent in the management of prolactinomas due to higher affinity for D2 receptor sites, less severe side effects, and more convenient dosing schedule than the older bromocriptine.
> 
> 
> Found this with google.


omg.. big words...  than... the... used... is... i wikipedia-ed it...   but thank you.  seriously,  i love you.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 6, 2014)

Don't bother it's useless.

Control your e2. Don't need caber.


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## Zipsteak (Nov 6, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Don't bother it's useless.
> 
> Control your e2. Don't need caber.



I understand your reasoning but i consider caber a good thing to have on hand in low doses. I know that prolactin levels only rise in the presence of elevated e2, but I get gyno from all 19-nor compounds, even on no test at all. I have to run caber at .25mg 2x week on any 19-nor.

Caber is the tits IMO. despite its damaging effects on my heart. Love that I signed a waiver to take the meds from my doctor lol... Makes my nips virtually non existant though.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 6, 2014)

So take nolva. 

Caber is fun and all with the decreased refractory period but a dopamine agonist isn't the kind of thing that should be taken lightly.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2014)

Zipsteak said:


> I understand your reasoning but i consider caber a good thing to have on hand in low doses. I know that prolactin levels only rise in the presence of elevated e2, but I get gyno from all 19-nor compounds, even on no test at all. I have to run caber at .25mg 2x week on any 19-nor.
> 
> Caber is the tits IMO. despite its damaging effects on my heart. Love that I signed a waiver to take the meds from my doctor lol... Makes my nips virtually non existant though.



Caber doesn't treat gyno. It treats elevated prolactin which causes lactation. Lactation is not gyno btw. 

And like POB said, dopamine agonists are nothing to screw around with. Google Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome..


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## Zipsteak (Nov 6, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Caber doesn't treat gyno. It treats elevated prolactin which causes lactation. Lactation is not gyno btw.
> 
> And like POB said, dopamine agonists are nothing to screw around with. Google Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome..



I understand lactation is not gyno, lets call it pseudo gyno then. The increase in size of the mammary glands due to increased prolactin levels causes swelling, discomfort, leaky nips, and symptoms similar to gyno. Coupled with a high test dose with e2 that is out of control, true gyno comes on way faster. 

All i know is that being prescribed to cabergoline has helped my pseudo gyno issues more than any AI or tamoxifen could ever. Thats just my own biological experience, as we all know everyone is different. 

Also prolactin induced gyno is not treatable with tamoxifen, it can downregulate the prolactin receptors but it still depends on the person and how sensitive they are to the prolactin. Thus nolva will work only under certain circumstances, but due to being diagnosed hyperprolactinemia I can not treat my problems with tamoxifen as it does nothing for prolactin levels.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2014)

Zipsteak said:


> I understand lactation is not gyno, lets call it pseudo gyno then. The increase in size of the mammary glands due to increased prolactin levels causes swelling, discomfort, leaky nips, and symptoms similar to gyno. Coupled with a high test dose with e2 that is out of control, true gyno comes on way faster.
> 
> All i know is that being prescribed to cabergoline has helped my pseudo gyno issues more than any AI or tamoxifen could ever. Thats just my own biological experience, as we all know everyone is different.
> 
> Also prolactin induced gyno is not treatable with tamoxifen, it can downregulate the prolactin receptors but it still depends on the person and how sensitive they are to the prolactin. Thus nolva will work only under certain circumstances, but due to being diagnosed hyperprolactinemia I can not treat my problems with tamoxifen as it does nothing for prolactin levels.



Lactation is not pseudo gyno either. Pseudo gyno is the accumulation of fat deposits around the nipple area that may look like gyno. Gyno on the other hand is hyperplasia of the ductal or alveolar cells in the breast. Prolactin cannot cause hyperplasia of these cells. 

Bc of the above, there is no such things as prolactin-induced gyno. It's something that ppl came up with online, it's not real nor accurate. Ppl call lactation prolactin-induced gyno but this is false. It is called galactorrhea. If you treat your issues with caber and tamoxifen doesn't work than what you have is not gyno. It's something else entirely.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2014)

> If male breast enlargement is caused by glandular proliferation, it is defined as gynecomastia. If it is caused by increased fat deposition, it is defined as pseudogynecomastia



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3146708/#!po=7.14286


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## DieYoungStrong (Nov 6, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Don't bother it's useless.
> 
> Control your e2. Don't need caber.



THIS. Caber also lowers IGF levels, so why would you want to take it.

Caber is fun if you want to give your lady a bukkakke party, but that's about it IMO....


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 6, 2014)

DieYoungStrong said:


> THIS. Caber also lowers IGF levels, so why would you want to take it.
> 
> Caber is fun if you want to give your lady a bukkakke party, but that's about it IMO....


Along with proviron tren and hcg


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## DieYoungStrong (Nov 6, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Along with proviron tren and hcg



If I want to water board my wife with jizz....


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## Zipsteak (Nov 6, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Lactation is not pseudo gyno either. Pseudo gyno is the accumulation of fat deposits around the nipple area that may look like gyno. Gyno on the other hand is hyperplasia of the ductal or alveolar cells in the breast. Prolactin cannot cause hyperplasia of these cells.
> 
> Bc of the above, there is no such things as prolactin-induced gyno. It's something that ppl came up with online, it's not real nor accurate. Ppl call lactation prolactin-induced gyno but this is false. It is called galactorrhea. If you treat your issues with caber and tamoxifen doesn't work than what you have is not gyno. It's something else entirely.



Actually:

Elevated prolactin levels may, however, suppress gonadotropin release, producing secondary hypogonadism, which then contributes to the development of gynocomastia. 

Also, caber is technically the best viable drug and most effective in trials to treat any symptom that comes from progesterones/prolactin. 

To each their own, ive bombed my estrogen so hard to try and keep my nipples in line but i know that no matter what caber is the only thing that bounces my nipples back like nothing. This is due to hyperprolactinemia causing hypogonadism, thus causing gyno.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2014)

Zipsteak said:


> Actually:
> 
> Elevated prolactin levels may, however, suppress gonadotropin release, producing secondary hypogonadism, which then contributes to the development of gynocomastia.
> 
> ...



And you just proved my point. Prolactin through no direct mechanism can cause gyno. It's through a secondary or intermediary mechanism which means it's not the prolactin that caused the gyno it's something else. 

Caber is not the best available drug to treat progesterone. Caber does nothing to affect progesterone. Birth control pills, among other medications, affect progesterone levels. Caber is only good at affecting prolactin. It's not even the best as pramiprexole works on D1, D2, and D3 receptors of dopamine while caber only acts upon the D1 receptors. Caber generally has negative side effects such as nausea and upset stomach than prami but that's about it. 

Proved my point again. The prolactin you use is treating the hyperprolactinaemia you experience. It's not treating the gynecomastia. AIs aren't as effective as SERMs at treating gyno so no need to bomb your E2. Simply keep it in range and use a SERM such as ralox, better than tamox, or tamoxifen to address the gyno. Surgery would be another option for some.


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## Zipsteak (Nov 6, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> And you just proved my point. Prolactin through no direct mechanism can cause gyno. It's through a secondary or intermediary mechanism which means it's not the prolactin that caused the gyno it's something else.
> 
> Caber is not the best available drug to treat progesterone. Caber does nothing to affect progesterone. Birth control pills, among other medications, affect progesterone levels. Caber is only good at affecting prolactin. It's not even the best as pramiprexole works on D1, D2, and D3 receptors of dopamine while caber only acts upon the D1 receptors. Caber generally has negative side effects such as nausea and upset stomach than prami but that's about it.
> 
> Proved my point again. The prolactin you use is treating the hyperprolactinaemia you experience. It's not treating the gynecomastia. AIs aren't as effective as SERMs at treating gyno so no need to bomb your E2. Simply keep it in range and use a SERM such as ralox, better than tamox, or tamoxifen to address the gyno. Surgery would be another option for some.



I think what your not understanding is that through these secondary mechanisms that gyno can be caused. Prolactin can cause hypogonadism, thus causing gyno, would you take an AI for prolactin levels, no, nor would you take nolvadex/raloxifen. You would take caber. Prami blows. Dont try and preach prami over caber, thats a load of shit. Prami is the worst drug ever. It makes most users sicker than hell and the come down after using prami for a long duration is like withdrawing from benzo's. Prami, although without the danger of heart damage, does NOT have the same lasting effect on my prolactin issues, which adds to my gyno. 

You go ahead and take prami, get your hgh drip increased a bit, but id be throwing up my guts all night and have a fever on that shit. Theres a reason why my endocrinologist prescribed me to cabergoline and not prami.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2014)

Zipsteak said:


> I think what your not understanding is that through these secondary mechanisms that gyno can be caused. Prolactin can cause hypogonadism, thus causing gyno, would you take an AI for prolactin levels, no, nor would you take nolvadex/raloxifen. You would take caber. Prami blows. Dont try and preach prami over caber, thats a load of shit. Prami is the worst drug ever. It makes most users sicker than hell and the come down after using prami for a long duration is like withdrawing from benzo's. Prami, although without the danger of heart damage, does NOT have the same lasting effect on my prolactin issues, which adds to my gyno.
> 
> You go ahead and take prami, get your hgh drip increased a bit, but id be throwing up my guts all night and have a fever on that shit. Theres a reason why my endocrinologist prescribed me to cabergoline and not prami.



What you're not understanding is that I never said gyno can't be caused by these secondary mechanisms. But then it's not the prolactin that caused the gyno. The prolactin for example can increase estrogen which alters your T:E ratios and that's what causes the gyno. Not the prolactin. My statement still stands. 

Prami is a more effective drug at treating Hyperprolactinaemia bc it works on more dopamine receptors than cabergoline. You cannot argue otherwise bc doing so flies in the face of the evidence at hand. I already mentioned it tends to make more ppl sick than caber but caber has the same effect in some ppl. I myself and many others have taken prami without problem. There are steps to do so and minimize the sides which you're unaware of. Coming off of caber is the same like benzos too for some. It's not solely the prami which is why you shouldn't be using these products unless needed. 

Of course there's a reason your endo put you on caber, it works at reducing prolactin. It's Not quite as good as prami but you're less likely to experience sides. That doesn't mean prami won't work or will definitely make everyone sick.


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## Zipsteak (Nov 6, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> What you're not understanding is that I never said gyno can't be caused by these secondary mechanisms. But then it's not the prolactin that caused the gyno. The prolactin for example can increase estrogen which alters your T:E ratios and that's what causes the gyno. Not the prolactin. My statement still stands.
> 
> Prami is a more effective drug at treating Hyperprolactinaemia bc it works on more dopamine receptors than cabergoline. You cannot argue otherwise bc doing so flies in the face of the evidence at hand. I already mentioned it tends to make more ppl sick than caber but caber has the same effect in some ppl. I myself and many others have taken prami without problem. There are steps to do so and minimize the sides which you're unaware of. Coming off of caber is the same like benzos too for some. It's not solely the prami which is why you shouldn't be using these products unless needed.
> 
> Of course there's a reason your endo put you on caber, it works at reducing prolactin. It's Not quite as good as prami but you're less likely to experience sides. That doesn't mean prami won't work or will definitely make everyone sick.



Ive titrated up on pharm grade prami from by.25mg every week. I GET SICK NO MATTER WHAT FROM PRAMI. 

On paper it tends to seem that prami works more efficiently at dopamine receptors and at more receptors. But in practice, prami is not ideal. It makes more users than others sick. Caber makes virtually no one sick, especially when compared to Prami. This applies to other areas within AAS where things tend to look better on paper then they work out in the body.

Youre applying science here, no doubt, but youre also not applying real life experience for the masses. Youre saying that prami works better for everyone and that is just misinformation. almost 80% of people i know that take prami get sick. No matter how long they reduce the dosage and titrate up and down. Everyone loves the half life of caber, thats why people take it, because who the hell wants to dose prami during the day or multiple times a day at low doses. Speaking of ****ing with dopamine levels, prami has more frequent ups and downs than caber. Caber is nice and smooth. 

Obviously your a fan of prami, but if this fella here takes your advice and gets on some prami i bet he gets sick. Noe that hes going to be able to get real caber anyways, im just saying caber shits on prami any day. You can put as much science in my face as you want, i go by real life experience of caber vs prami use. And caber wins every time.

Also tren can give you gyno due to secondary mechanism due to increased prolactin. Prolactin that can only be controlled by caber/prami, not an AI, or SERM. Just clarifying.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2014)

Zipsteak said:


> Ive titrated up on pharm grade prami from by.25mg every week. I GET SICK NO MATTER WHAT FROM PRAMI.
> 
> On paper it tends to seem that prami works more efficiently at dopamine receptors and at more receptors. But in practice, prami is not ideal. It makes more users than others sick. Caber makes virtually no one sick, especially when compared to Prami. This applies to other areas within AAS where things tend to look better on paper then they work out in the body.
> 
> ...



Some Doctors advise to start at .125mg of prami and go up by hat amount every few doses. Also taken before bed and with dietary fat helps many of those who experience the negative sides. 

I already ceded your point about prami making more ppl sick twice but you're also exaggerating the amount of ppl it does make sick at the same time. I'm saying prami works better at lowering prolactin which is true. Idc which compound you use, use whichever one works best for you, but I do care about presenting the evidence accurately:



> TOLERABILITY
> Nausea and sedation will occur in up to 30 percent of patients.1,4–6 Approximately 7 percent of patients with RLS receiving pramipexole discontinued treatment because of adverse effects compared with 5 percent of patients receiving placebo.1



^^^ a far cry from your 80% or everybody who gets sick off prami. 



> In contrast to other DA, pramipexole has been found to exert no strong cytochrome P 450 inhibition in vitro, minimizing the risk for drug-drug interactions (Wynalda and Wienkers 1997).



^^^ I admit it's in vitro not in vivo

You say if OP takes prami you bet he'll be sick. If you had bothered to read the original post by him you'd see that he was looking for clenbuterol and found cabergoline in it's place. He was looking for a fat loss agent and is now asking about a dopamine agonist. There's no reason for him to take caber or prami. 

The thing with real life experience is that it's not controlled for confounding variables. It certainly has it's place but along the strength of evidence continuum it is much weaker than a peer reviewed study which has control groups as well as quantifiable and measurable results. 

One final time: there's enough evidence out there to assume that trenbolone does not increase prolactin. Estrogenic compounds on the other hand do. If you have reliable evidence or blood work showing tren increasing prolactin I'd love to see it. Nobody has yet been able to post anything though. Forgetting the issue of tren, I already know increased prolactin can only be treated with a dopamine agonist, point me to where I said otherwise. But again, increased prolactin is not gyno. It can cause increased E2 which then downstream causes gyno but this is secondary and not primary. So by taking the prami you are not treating the gyno....you are treating the prolactin. This shouldn't be this hard.


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## Zipsteak (Nov 6, 2014)

want me to post up blood panels with me being on tren A? ive got a doctors order right here for a whole boat load of test for my trt. Ill post its results and prove to you that tren increases prolactin levels. 

Im simply arguing the fact that you stated all you need to do is control your e2 levels and you wont need caber/prami. I think that is misleading. Thats what im saying. I understand the science behind it, but it doesnt apply to everyone well enough for just a generalized statement to be thrown around.

I will post my blood being on tren ace and show you my elevated prolactin.


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## Zipsteak (Nov 6, 2014)

I just Pmed you Docd.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2014)

Zipsteak said:


> I just Pmed you Docd.



Replied to you brother.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2014)

Zipstreak, as promised here are your labs brother.


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## DF (Nov 7, 2014)

Interested in the blood work.  Was this pre trt? or what were you taking during this test?


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## Zipsteak (Nov 9, 2014)

DF said:


> Interested in the blood work.  Was this pre trt? or what were you taking during this test?



Hey there DF, 

So this after being on trt. I was on tren ace (made from fina pellets by myself, had a few old kits i put away for rainy day back in 09' so i know it was real tren). Also was on letro (2.5mg 2x/week? dont take that number to bank was a while ago) for gyno, doc switched me after this test to aromasin. I had requested letro, dumb after looking back and being on aromasin and loving it for over a year and half now. 


So what my feeble mind took away from this was: 

Tren elevated my AST ALT
Tren increased prolactin
Letro decreased e2 too low
Too low e2 caused drop in IGF-1
Low test due to no test administration
Low test certainly doesnt help low igf-1

So for all the naysayers, tren affects AST ALT, and prolactin levels.

Through more testing of my liver after this test my doctor ordered a GGT (more accurate about if damage is coming from liver as AST ALT are found through body). Ended up my liver was cool after i came off the tren of course, but I know the levels were elevated like that while on it. Although there are reports of NFL players having AST ALT levels as high as 700 after intense workouts due to muscle damage/tissue damage. 

or im talking out of my ass


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## Zipsteak (Nov 9, 2014)

This also predominantly shows that prolactin can be high in the presence of almost no estrogen at all.


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## goodfella (Nov 9, 2014)

Alright fuk it, I'm gunna try one dose of prami one time, just so i can experience this nasty side of nausea from it.


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## deadlift666 (Nov 9, 2014)

goodfella said:


> Alright fuk it, I'm gunna try one dose of prami one time, just so i can experience this nasty side of nausea from it.



Sounds like fun. (it's not).


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## Hardpr (Nov 9, 2014)

can i get an amen 





Docd187123 said:


> Caber doesn't treat gyno.* It treats elevated prolactin which causes lactation.* Lactation is not gyno btw.
> 
> And like POB said, dopamine agonists are nothing to screw around with. Google Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome..


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## Zipsteak (Nov 9, 2014)

Hardpr said:


> can i get an amen



pretty much not what this is about at this point. But thanks


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