# Are my ratios effed up?



## November Ajax (Feb 9, 2019)

Hi! So I recently got back home, aka the gym, and I got back to doing StrongLifts 5x5, after 3 weeks of eating garbage and doing nothing, to get back some of my lost strength (btw it was a lot). I know this is not strictly powerlifting but it's as close as I'll ever get.

So here are my numbers (in pounds, even though I lost strength my ratios were always about the same, these are my numbers on the routine, not 1RM or even 5RM):

Squat: 135 (75% of my deadlift, ATG)
Bench press: 155 (115% of my squat)
Barbell row (unsupported starting from the floor): 135
Overhead press: 90
Deadlift: 175

The way I see it my bench should be about 67% of my squat and my squat should be about 75% of my deadlift. Am I wrong?


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 9, 2019)

Ratios? No such thing


----------



## Spongy (Feb 9, 2019)

I've never heard of ratios for lifting...

EDIT:  PoB beat me to it.


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 9, 2019)

How about this? https://www.t-nation.com/training/know-your-ratios-destroy-weaknesses


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 9, 2019)

Those ratios were created by someone, and people repeated it enough that it became a model to follow.

It's bullshit. You choose what you want your ratio to be. Go look at world record powerlifters' ratios and get to their numbers. That would be way more fun to beat.

Christian T..ugh I started out on T-Nation forums back in 2006. Don't listen to those idiots; they only want your money. Trust me, I was part of a big forum change there back in 2007-2008; **** those guys.


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 9, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> Those ratios were created by someone, and people repeated it enough that it became a model to follow.
> 
> It's bullshit. You choose what you want your ratio to be. Go look at world record powerlifters' ratios and get to their numbers. That would be way more fun to beat.
> 
> Christian T..ugh I started out on T-Nation forums back in 2006. Don't listen to those idiots; they only want your money. Trust me, I was part of a big forum change there back in 2007-2008; **** those guys.


I agree that sometimes there are some ridiculous things in T-nation, but that's not the only way I saw it. I've also heard Mark Rippetoe and people with similar philosophies that an intermediate person should have a 200lbs bench, 300lbs squat and 400lbs deadlift. I also think this is a bit too generic and ignores the differences between each person but those seem like reasonable numbers, right?


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 9, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> I agree that sometimes there are some ridiculous things in T-nation, but that's not the only way I saw it. I've also heard Mark Rippetoe and people with similar philosophies that an intermediate person should have a 200lbs bench, 300lbs squat and 400lbs deadlift. I also think this is a bit too generic and ignores the differences between each person but those seem like reasonable numbers, right?



For me, I believed I should've had a 315 b/405 s/505d as an intermediate, so those numbers would've been below my standards. Thus, I tell you to ignore those ratios and aim higher. Go for the ****ing top!


----------



## snake (Feb 9, 2019)

Everyone's body is different so you can't go by that shit. 

Just don't bench more then your squat is a good rule.


----------



## Spongy (Feb 9, 2019)

what is your goal though?  To on in mass or are you looking to compete in powerlifting?


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 9, 2019)

snake said:


> Everyone's body is different so you can't go by that shit.
> 
> Just don't bench more then your squat is a good rule.



Yeah that was my main concern. Also that my rows are a bit high compared to my bench maybe? 



Spongy said:


> what is your goal though?  To on in mass or are you looking to compete in powerlifting?



I have no interest in powerlifting. I'm just going to do this for about 12-16 weeks to increase my main lifts and hopefully to start getting my bench/squat ratio to more acceptable levels. The progression outlined in the program should allow me to do it, given that I'd be increasing my squats by 5lbs 3x/week and my bench by 5lbs 1.5x/week. If I'm able to follow that for 12 weeks (which seems tough though, I'll probably have to switch to 3x5 somewhere along the way) I should be squatting 315 and benching 245 by the end.


----------



## bigdog (Feb 9, 2019)

I eat more poptarts than chicken. Hasn't stopped me LOL..   kidding.  Just keep on working to up your lifts to be the best you brother. My ratios would be bad if they existed that way because me bench is better than my deadlift because old injuries in my lower back. I just lift to my limits and move on.


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 9, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> Yeah that was my main concern. Also that my rows are a bit high compared to my bench maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> I have no interest in powerlifting. I'm just going to do this for about 12-16 weeks to increase my main lifts and hopefully to start getting my bench/squat ratio to more acceptable levels. The progression outlined in the program should allow me to do it, given that I'd be increasing my squats by 5lbs 3x/week and my bench by 5lbs 1.5x/week. If I'm able to follow that for 12 weeks (which seems tough though, I'll probably have to switch to 3x5 somewhere along the way) I should be squatting 315 and benching 245 by the end.



*Read carefully*:

Humans do not progress in a linear fashion, as in "my bench will increase 5lbs every 1.5 weeks". Progress is to be viewed in *averages*. Example:

In 1 month, your bench:

increased 2lbs on week 1.
increased 0lbs on week 2.
increased 1lb on week 3.
increased 1lb on week 4.

Thus, you gained 3.25lbs on bench every week. I've tried my hardest through the years to END the belief that results happen in a linear fashion. There are exceptions! Newbie gains and chemicals can cause linear results.

Also, *don't fall victim to the planning fallacy*! That's a phenomenon EVERY PERSON has been in before, where you underestimate the time needed to reach a goal/complete a task. We all do it; it's part of being human. Make sure you give yourself enough time. It will take longer than assumed.


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 9, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> *Read carefully*:
> 
> Humans do not progress in a linear fashion, as in "my bench will increase 5lbs every 1.5 weeks". Progress is to be viewed in *averages*. Example:
> 
> ...



I agree with all of this. That's why I said 12-16 weeks, and also that I'd eventually change to 3x5 instead of 5x5. I'm aware that I'll fail reps and will fail to reach 5 reps sometimes. 

I'm also being optimistic because I'm a newbie. All I did before were bodyweight exercises and I have not been even remotely consistent.

Also, the fact that I said 1.5x/week is the result of an average. Some weeks I'll increase 10lbs, some weeks only 5lbs. And as I said, some weeks I'll increase nothing and even have to lower the weight.

I'm prepared for it to last more than 12 or even 16 weeks. Even if it does, 225 bench and 315 squat sound like great numbers for me.


----------



## notsoswoleCPA (Feb 9, 2019)

We progress as our bodies allow us to progress so I wouldn't get hung up on ratios.  OTOH, I will rip on you if you always bench press more than you squat/deadlift and have bird legs.  Just kidding...  or am I?

All joking aside, I started working out again in 2015 after letting myself go following a car crash in October 2007 to July 2015.  I went into it knowing that I screwed my body up over a period of YEARS therefore I expected that it would take a minimum of five years to see satisfactory results.  The results came a little quicker, but I am still not where I want to be, and probably never will get there.  I won't let that stop me from trying though.


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 9, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> I agree with all of this. That's why I said 12-16 weeks, and also that I'd eventually change to 3x5 instead of 5x5. I'm aware that I'll fail reps and will fail to reach 5 reps sometimes.
> 
> I'm also being optimistic because I'm a newbie. All I did before were bodyweight exercises and I have not been even remotely consistent.
> 
> ...



To impart wisdom to a newbie:

As weights get heavier, the incremental weight increases get lighter. 

Use me for example. I used 100lb DBs on flat bench. To progress, I jumped to 110lb DBs. NOW, with 130lb DBs, my next step is 135lb DBs instead of 140s. The DBs are now heavy enough that a 10lb increase could cause an injury.

So, be sure to expect 5lbs as your limit with progressing as weights get heavier.


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 9, 2019)

notsoswoleCPA said:


> We progress as our bodies allow us to progress so I wouldn't get hung up on ratios.  OTOH, I will rip on you if you always bench press more than you squat/deadlift and have bird legs.  Just kidding...  or am I?
> 
> All joking aside, I started working out again in 2015 after letting myself go following a car crash in October 2007 to July 2015.  I went into it knowing that I screwed my body up over a period of YEARS therefore I expected that it would take a minimum of five years to see satisfactory results.  The results came a little quicker, but I am still not where I want to be, and probably never will get there.  I won't let that stop me from trying though.



*NEVER* say "..never will get..." ever again. That's bullshit, just like "can't". I have even outlawed "can't" in this house, turning it into "the _c word_".

Yes, I know some things are improbable. Doesn't matter. Do not allow that in your mind. Even if you come short of a goal, you aimed so high that you ended up way past a point you would've ended on if you had said "can't/never will/etc"!


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 9, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> To impart wisdom to a newbie:
> 
> As weights get heavier, the incremental weight increases get lighter.
> 
> ...



Yeah totally. Once I stop making progress this way I'll probably switch to Madcow. Progress is much slower and it allows for better recovery, since squatting heavy 3x/week is way too much.


----------



## notsoswoleCPA (Feb 10, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> *NEVER* say "..never will get..." ever again. That's bullshit, just like "can't". I have even outlawed "can't" in this house, turning it into "the _c word_".
> 
> Yes, I know some things are improbable. Doesn't matter. Do not allow that in your mind. Even if you come short of a goal, you aimed so high that you ended up way past a point you would've ended on if you had said "can't/never will/etc"!



I guess I should elaborate more.  As I approach 50, I know that getting as thin as I was in my 20s may be an unrealistic expectation.  It doesn't stop me from trying though.  Granted, I am stronger now at 46 years old than I was in my 20s, so I do have that going for me.  I'm happier being stronger and carrying more body fat than being thinner, smaller, and weaker, lol.


----------



## Elivo (Feb 10, 2019)

I take each big lift separate and do not pay any attention to how much it is of a diff lift. 

Its never once crossed my kind that my bench is a certain percentage of my squat or dead lift.


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 10, 2019)

notsoswoleCPA said:


> I guess I should elaborate more.  As I approach 50, I know that getting as thin as I was in my 20s may be an unrealistic expectation.  It doesn't stop me from trying though.  Granted, I am stronger now at 46 years old than I was in my 20s, so I do have that going for me.  I'm happier being stronger and carrying more body fat than being thinner, smaller, and weaker, lol.



Hell yea-being happy is what everything is about.


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 10, 2019)

Elivo said:


> I take each big lift separate and do not pay any attention to how much it is of a diff lift.
> 
> Its never once crossed my kind that my bench is a certain percentage of my squat or dead lift.


I only payed attention to it because my bench is higher than my squat and everyone I see on YouTube is the other way around. I think over time it'll fix itself as long as I don't skip leg day. 





hulksmash said:


> Hell yea-being happy is what everything is about.


I thought it was about being the biggest dude in the room.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 10, 2019)

Hey listen bro if your goal is to have this ratio then **** it go for it. 

Everyone here is just saying it's kinda pointless is all.

A lot of your best lifts is genetic bit for realz how much you like doing it. 

I ****ing hate bench. Mine was absolute dog shit. Because I didn't care.


----------



## Spongy (Feb 10, 2019)

I could absolutely care less how much I can lift.  I just care about how big I am.  Some of it corresponds, but honestly there are waaaaay smaller dudes out there lifting a shit ton more than I am.  

I utilize progressive overload, so I'm strong enough...  But the only way I'll ever know my 1RM is from a ****ing chart.


----------



## Seeker (Feb 10, 2019)

Haha like our good pal Bigworm would say. " if you want to be  strong start lifting heavy weights"


----------



## DeltaWave (Feb 10, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> I agree that sometimes there are some ridiculous things in T-nation, but that's not the only way I saw it. I've also heard Mark Rippetoe and people with similar philosophies that an intermediate person should have a 200lbs bench, 300lbs squat and 400lbs deadlift. I also think this is a bit too generic and ignores the differences between each person but those seem like reasonable numbers, right?



In one of his previous videos, Omarlsuf suggested those lifts could be attained within the first year of lifting (still a beginner). I don't believe he provided any scientific evidence though, so it's pretty debatable. 

Ratios are pretty much only dependent on the person. If you watch professional powerlifting competitions, some lifters have a higher squat than deadlift (less common I think though), some have a higher deadlift than squat, some have benches proportionate to their other lifts. 

Just focus on form and progressive overloading. Your lifts will show your strengths/weaknesses after awhile.




November Ajax said:


> since squatting heavy 3x/week is way too much.


​Squating 3x a week probably a lil excessive too.


----------



## Gadawg (Feb 10, 2019)

If you're super cool, bench will always be your best lift.


----------



## bigdog (Feb 10, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> If you're super cool, bench will always be your best lift.



And you celebrate a bench PR with a poptart like a motherfukking boss!


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 10, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> I only payed attention to it because my bench is higher than my squat and everyone I see on YouTube is the other way around. I think over time it'll fix itself as long as I don't skip leg day. I thought it was about being the biggest dude in the room.



For me it's being the strongest.

But being happy is the most important out of it all. We only got one life!


----------



## Gadawg (Feb 10, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> For me it's being the strongest.
> 
> But being happy is the most important out of it all. We only got one life!



It's about both for me. One is of little value to me without the other.  

Larry Wheels wouldnt be a youtube sensation if he was a 300lb fatass and nobody cares about phil heath bc he lifts like a millenial.


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 10, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> It's about both for me. One is of little value to me without the other.
> 
> Larry Wheels wouldnt be a youtube sensation if he was a 300lb fatass and nobody cares about phil heath bc he lifts like a millenial.



Speaking of him, people love how quickly he progresses.

Well, the past 6-7 months I have increased my lifts almost every single week. For example, have a small pec tear, start with 50s, got to 120lb DBs on flat bench, and ~2 weeks later I was doing 130sx6 since I got to 10 reps with 120s. I've never done more than 4 reps with 130s in 2009 (preferred BB flat).

I could get a huge audience with the consistent, super fast progress. But, I don't feel I deserve to be on Youtube nor feel like I'm special at all.


----------



## Gadawg (Feb 10, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> Speaking of him, people love how quickly he progresses.
> 
> Well, the past 6-7 months I have increased my lifts almost every single week. For example, have a small pec tear, start with 50s, got to 120lb DBs on flat bench, and ~2 weeks later I was doing 130sx6 since I got to 10 reps with 120s. I've never done more than 4 reps with 130s in 2009 (preferred BB flat).
> 
> I could get a huge audience with the consistent, super fast progress. But, I don't feel I deserve to be on Youtube nor feel like I'm special at all.




Ill watch when the dumbells weigh 250.....


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 10, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Ill watch when the dumbells weigh 250.....


Those are pretty high standards. Ronnie Coleman got a lot of attention with his 200lb DB bench. I'm sure screaming "lightweight" and "yeah buddy" 500 times helped a lot as well. 
Edit: it was incline bench.


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 10, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> Those are pretty high standards. Ronnie Coleman got a lot of attention with his 200lb DB bench. I'm sure screaming "lightweight" and "yeah buddy" 500 times helped a lot as well.
> Edit: it was incline bench.



It was flat. 210lb DBs is my actual goal!! I know I can do it; I don't care what anyone says. I know my body; I know my feats while farming. I do NOT care the probability of doing it. I will die trying if it comes to it.

I was closing in on 4/5/6 back in 2009-2010. So long ago, before my life fell apart. Had to start back at 0. Could be a possibly awesome "phoenix" story, since people eat that shit up.





Gadawg said:


> Ill watch when the dumbells weigh 250.....



Exactly! Although I built a huge following on bodybuilding.com forums in 2011-2012, and you see the attention I get here, I do not believe I deserve such a spotlight.

The weight I'm doing now is crazy only to normal folks/beginning lifters. I want the respect from the strongest lifters. Thus, I "don't deserve" to be a Youtube creator.


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 10, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> It was flat. 210lb DBs is my actual goal!! I know I can do it; I don't care what anyone says. I know my body; I know my feats while farming. I do NOT care the probability of doing it. I will die trying if it comes to it.



I you are talking about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSMaI63H9hc&t=231s , then it's incline. Skip to 2:40.

By the way, I hear there is good money in YouTube. Maybe you should reconsider!


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 10, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> I you are talking about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSMaI63H9hc&t=231s , then it's incline. Skip to 2:40.
> 
> By the way, I hear there is good money in YouTube. Maybe you should reconsider!



No, this one: https://youtu.be/CFG328YCVAM

Flat bench. Me one day lol


----------



## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> No, this one: https://youtu.be/CFG328YCVAM
> 
> Flat bench. Me one day lol



If you can do that many reps, that easily, you better be a millionaire somehow!


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 11, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> No, this one: https://youtu.be/CFG328YCVAM
> 
> Flat bench. Me one day lol



The one I shared has flat bench with 200s as well. But incline with 200s is way more impressive. He probably can do more than that on flat if he can incline 200s.


----------



## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> The one I shared has flat bench with 200s as well. But incline with 200s is way more impressive. He probably can do more than that on flat if he can incline 200s.



I doubt he can do the 80s anymore.  Damn shame


----------



## November Ajax (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> I doubt he can do the 80s anymore.  Damn shame


That's true. I was talking as if he was still benching that much.


----------



## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

November Ajax said:


> The one I shared has flat bench with 200s as well. But incline with 200s is way more impressive. He probably can do more than that on flat if he can incline 200s.



Nah, inclines are easier. You can youtube several people doing 200s on incline. 200s and up on flat is way harder, due to less muscle groups used.


----------

