# TPP post injection pain



## f.r.a.n.k. (Oct 26, 2013)

So debating on going with a tpp/npp blend...heard that npp is smooth and very little to no post injection pain, but what about tpp?
Any personal experiences to share about TPP?


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## SFGiants (Oct 26, 2013)

Npp is harsher on me then Tpp by far. I don't like pinning much of both in same shot at all.

Both lump and give me pip but not unbearable for me.

I wouldn't get it as a blend IMO would rather control how much of each I put into a syringe as NPP is always one that I end up lowering the dosage on during a cycle same with Mast P.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks for the info brother...
what about npp compared to good ole long estered deca?


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## SFGiants (Oct 26, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> Thanks for the info brother...
> what about npp compared to good ole long estered deca?



Ran both and would prefer pip and shorter ester, NPP and TPP are pinned M/W/F so it's just 1 extra day of pinning with more band and faster results.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Oct 26, 2013)

thanks for the info brother


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## Popeye (Oct 26, 2013)

if its good tpp you should have no problems...ive used good tpp and subpar tpp...what a world of difference!...the npp ive used was ridiculous with pip...but was also from a good lab on its decline so not sure on that....my pip is usually pretty minimal no matter what ester


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## Rumpy (Oct 26, 2013)

My last cycle I was pinning test cyp and NPP together and never really had any pip at all.  It was 1.2ml of NPP and 0.7 of test in the same syringe, EOD.  I have some of the blend Frank's thinking of getting, but I haven't pinned any of it yet.


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## jyoung8j (Oct 26, 2013)

If good lab shouldn't have much pip.. I got none from either.. but everyone is diff..


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 26, 2013)

if the brewer is a pro u should have no problem..But some guys react bad to short esters ,not sure why.Some cant handle test E knots them up..Only thing that gave me pip froma good lab was tne


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## transcend2007 (Oct 26, 2013)

Hey Frank, I am running this exact cycle now (TPP / NPP).  Like SFG said you feel it for sure, it ain't test cyp.  But it hits fast, and results are awesome!  IMO it's just part of this cycle.  I would say the PIP is on the moderate low side.  Definitely should not keep you away...


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## hulksmash (Oct 26, 2013)

You should be fine

The only test that gives me bad pip is 600mg/ml

God never again LOL


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## mabdelrasoul (Oct 26, 2013)

I get minor knots on tpp. seems to help when I inject no more then a ml


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## DF (Oct 26, 2013)

I recently ran TPP 100mg/ml.  Very smooth & no pip at all.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Oct 26, 2013)

Good to hear ...
Thanks for all the replies!


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## Rumpy (Oct 27, 2013)

The half life of Phenylpropinate is long enough that pinning EOD is enough, right.  That's how I've used NPP, but I haven't used TPP yet


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## SFGiants (Oct 27, 2013)

Rumpy said:


> The half life of Phenylpropinate is long enough that pinning EOD is enough, right.  That's how I've used NPP, but I haven't used TPP yet



M/W/F is all that's needed.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Oct 27, 2013)

MWF?

not m/w/f/sun/tues/thurs/sat...etc???


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## SFGiants (Oct 27, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> MWF?
> 
> not m/w/f/sun/tues/thurs/sat...etc???



Ed or eod or e3d, I do M/W/F.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Oct 27, 2013)

SFGiants said:


> Ed or eod or e3d, I do M/W/F.


so when you do m/w/f what's the point in taking 2 days off every week?


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## SFGiants (Oct 27, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> so when you do m/w/f what's the point in taking 2 days off every week?



The half life is e3d so Friday to Monday is 3 days, I just don't care to have to worry about pinning on weekends when I travel as I do.


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## Rumpy (Oct 27, 2013)

EOD is better, just keep a log of when you pin so you don't get confused, and divide your weekly dose by 3.5.  Or like SFG says, you can do M/W/F because it's easier to keep track of and the little dip on Sunday won't really hurt, but remember to divide your weekly by 3 so your weekly average stays the same


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Oct 27, 2013)

SFGiants said:


> Ed or eod or e3d, I do M/W/F.



lol ahhh...so the difference is negligible, basically
thanks for the info brother...


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## powermaster (Nov 5, 2013)

My last cycle was npp and tpp and had no pip what so ever. Ran like 600 tpp and 450 npp and loved it.


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## j2048b (Nov 5, 2013)

I think im gonna try the tpp/npp ive got some npp and on cyp right now but wanted to try the tpp as im not sure how i respond to short ester test,ive always ran cyp or e,


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## hulksmash (Nov 5, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> lol ahhh...so the difference is negligible, basically
> thanks for the info brother...



KISS, injection times dont matter..e.g. Test E=just pin it once a week; dosage doesn't matter

With tpp just pin twice a week (3.5-4 day half life)

Pin Tuesday and Friday, theres no point to pinning more days


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 5, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> kiss, injection times dont matter..e.g. Test e=just pin it once a week; dosage doesn't matter
> 
> with tpp just pin twice a week (3.5-4 day half life)
> 
> pin tuesday and friday, theres no point to pinning more days



kiss?
.......


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 5, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> KISS, injection times dont matter..e.g. Test E=just pin it once a week; dosage doesn't matter
> 
> With tpp just pin twice a week (3.5-4 day half life)
> 
> Pin Tuesday and Friday, theres no point to pinning more days



Depending on the individual there is a point to more frequent pinning, within reason of course. 



frank.tb said:


> kiss?
> .......



Keep It Simple Stupid...basically just means to not overcomplicate things.


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## gymrat827 (Nov 5, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> so when you do m/w/f what's the point in taking 2 days off every week?



there is not point other than the fact your dont have to inj. that day.

Its just easier.  Most guys have tons of shit to do on wkends compared to wk days....

so yes, EOD will be better, but M/W/F will work 96% as well.....lol

you wont see a difference in gains but blood levels will a tad bit better.


IMHO.....makes little to no diff.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 5, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> Depending on the individual there is a point to more frequent pinning, within reason of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep It Simple Stupid...basically just means to not overcomplicate things.



Haha KISS is a new one for me lol

Thanks for the help everyone


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> Depending on the individual there is a point to more frequent pinning, within reason of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep It Simple Stupid...basically just means to not overcomplicate things.



I disagree; no reason for anyone to ever pin more frequently

The only exception would be for compounds like TNE, test prop, injectable orals, etc


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## Rumpy (Nov 6, 2013)

Hulk, that's pinning once per half life.  You may not feel it, but that does pretty much mean your levels will be fluctuating a bit, doesn't it?  I'm not saying you NEED to pin more frequently, only that more frequent pinning will yield more stable serum levels.  Personally I like to pin at 1/2 the half life, so 2X per week for C and E or EOD of PP, but that's just my preference, not a necessity.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> I disagree; no reason for anyone to ever pin more frequently
> 
> The only exception would be for compounds like TNE, test prop, injectable orals, etc



Y test prop? TPP and Prop have similar half lives...does it have to do with the chemical structure?


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## Rumpy (Nov 6, 2013)

Prop is a little shorter.  Depending on who you ask, prop is about 2 days and PP about 3 days.


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Rumpy said:


> Prop is a little shorter.  Depending on who you ask, prop is about 2 days and PP about 3 days.



This...prop is commonly attributed to 2 days with TPP being 3-4 days


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Rumpy said:


> Hulk, that's pinning once per half life.  You may not feel it, but that does pretty much mean your levels will be fluctuating a bit, doesn't it?  I'm not saying you NEED to pin more frequently, only that more frequent pinning will yield more stable serum levels.  Personally I like to pin at 1/2 the half life, so 2X per week for C and E or EOD of PP, but that's just my preference, not a necessity.



Stable levels mean jack squat when it comes to bodybuilding

I only have/will continue to pin once per half life, no matter the dose..eg 1g of deca, split into two shots but on the same day, once a week

In fact, since I'm not a competitor, I have no use for short esters; the only time I've pinned more than once a week was when I tried Test 600mg blend


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## Rumpy (Nov 6, 2013)

I've never tried cyp once a week.  Do you feel highs and lows or does it feel constant?  I don't doubt that they're equally effective for body building, but can you feel the roller coaster effect at all?


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## Popeye (Nov 6, 2013)

Rumpy said:


> I've never tried cyp once a week.  Do you feel highs and lows or does it feel constant?  I don't doubt that they're equally effective for body building, but can you feel the roller coaster effect at all?



Right?!?!?!? I wouldnt pin Enth once a week....regardless of the ups and downs....just seems stupid...only ester Ill do once a week is deca!!!


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## Popeye (Nov 6, 2013)

I mean...It makes me laugh when guys do prop ED..its not that important...I do EOD on prop and just fine...while we both agree less is better, I would rather see 2/wk with something with a 5-7 day half life


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Rumpy said:


> I've never tried cyp once a week.  Do you feel highs and lows or does it feel constant?  I don't doubt that they're equally effective for body building, but can you feel the roller coaster effect at all?



Nope

I seriously believe that everyone create a strong placebo effect if they feel any "up and downs"

It takes weeks for hormones to build up in the human body; if "stability" really mattered, then people would lose their physiological gains if they missed a pinning day....this is not the case

A side not, but related-hormones take a lot longer than most think for great effects...

this is why it takes all the pros, like Phil Heath, around 3 years to go from amateur winner to Nationals/Pro rank-even with them never coming off, using all those compounds/dosages, ancillary use, etc


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Popeye said:


> Right?!?!?!? I wouldnt pin Enth once a week....regardless of the ups and downs....just seems stupid...only ester Ill do once a week is deca!!!



It's not stupid, test e's half life is 5-7 days

Waste of time to pin more

If someone is negatively affected(gains, etc) from pinning 1 time a week with long esters, then maybe they shouldn't do steroids lol


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## Popeye (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay, so using the 5 day half life and pinning 1/wk, you dont think it could negatively effect a cycle from someone who does 1/wk opposed to if they did 2/wk...WITH the same effort?!?!? Levels could significantly drop by your next inject, no?

Im mostly talkin in the start up of the cycle.  Once you build up above the supra levels...I guess I somewhat agree with you, but before hand NOOOO!


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## Popeye (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm sure we'll get a correct answer from somebody!...lol


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> I disagree; no reason for anyone to ever pin more frequently
> 
> The only exception would be for compounds like TNE, test prop, injectable orals, etc



I disagree as well. Ask the many TRT patients that pin test enanthate or cypionate twice weekly about reasons why they prefer and FIGHT for more frequent injections for their treatment or for those experiencing side effects.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> Stable levels mean jack squat when it comes to bodybuilding
> 
> I only have/will continue to pin once per half life, no matter the dose..eg 1g of deca, split into two shots but on the same day, once a week
> 
> In fact, since I'm not a competitor, I have no use for short esters; the only time I've pinned more than once a week was when I tried Test 600mg blend



Now you've placed a qualifier on your original statement making it only body builders that don't worry about more stable serum levels but again, stable serum levels can help reduce sides which is very relevant (not necessarily body composition)


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> Nope
> 
> I seriously believe that everyone create a strong placebo effect if they feel any "up and downs"
> 
> ...



Saying one would lose their physiological gains if they missed a pinning day is an appeal to an extreme as well as looking at the small picture...even if missing one shot disrupts the 'stability' of serum levels, that person still has supraphysiological serum levels regardless. This also doesn't take into account if the person is still within their genetic potential which would only serve to raise the ability to retain physiological gains...provided diet and training are sufficient to retain them.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> It's not stupid, test e's half life is 5-7 days
> 
> Waste of time to pin more
> 
> If someone is negatively affected(gains, etc) from pinning 1 time a week with long esters, then maybe they shouldn't do steroids lol



While I agree with you that pinning LESS frequently, while still remaining within the half life, will lead to higher serum levels, negative effects can definitely be had from only pinning once a week...again ask TRT patients and those who are prone to verify the benefits of more frequent injections.


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> While I agree with you that pinning LESS frequently, while still remaining within the half life, will lead to higher serum levels, negative effects can definitely be had from only pinning once a week...again ask TRT patients and those who are prone to verify the benefits of more frequent injections.



Thats why I said "with bodybuilding"

TRT is a different beast, I agree that it affects that group


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> Saying one would lose their physiological gains if they missed a pinning day is an appeal to an extreme as well as looking at the small picture...even if missing one shot disrupts the 'stability' of serum levels, that person still has supraphysiological serum levels regardless.



Exactly my point-

Theres no reason to pin more than minimum; your body is full in a supraphysiological state

The problem: this is all anecdotal..I/you can say my/your opinion all day

I think the "peaks and valley" feelings are of a strong placebo origin

Regardless, experiment with less pinning folks; only way to find out


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> Thats why I said "with bodybuilding"
> 
> TRT is a different beast, I agree that it affects that group



That's what I was trying to get across, you only referenced body building after the fact. Just like there's no need to pin more frequently there's the same issue with pinning less frequently, you don't have to do that either. Experimentation to find personal preference isn't a bad thing either.


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## Iron1 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> I think the "peaks and valley" feelings are of a strong placebo origin



It's annecdotal I know and I'm "just" a TRT guy but 200mg/e2w left me ranging between 1200ng/dl -> 200ng/dl every two weeks.
You can *definitely* feel the lack of stability compared to 50mg 2x weekly.

It may be different for guys with supraphysiological levels.
YMMV


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> It's annecdotal I know and I'm "just" a TRT guy but 200mg/e2w left me ranging between 1200ng/dl -> 200ng/dl every two weeks.
> You can *definitely* feel the lack of stability compared to 50mg 2x weekly.
> 
> It may be different for guys with supraphysiological levels.
> YMMV



He's going to argue pinning every 2wks is outside the half life so it's not an accurate comparison but I agree with you that there are reasons to pin more frequently than just at half life lengths


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## Iron1 (Nov 6, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> He's going to argue pinning every 2wks is outside the half life so it's not an accurate comparison but I agree with you that there are reasons to pin more frequently than just at half life lengths



That may be true, I was just providing my experiences with the peaks and valleys.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

Iron1 said:


> That may be true, I was just providing my experiences with the peaks and valleys.



I've got peaks for your valleys


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 6, 2013)

Children, you see? This is how adults handle their differences of opinion...with intelligent conversation.


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## Rumpy (Nov 6, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> Children, you see? This is how adults handle their differences of opinion...with intelligent conversation.



Is that my queue to say something inflammatory and childish?

Seriously, I kind of agree with everyone.  It may not truly be necessary, but there is no harm in pinning more frequently.  There's nothing wrong with having a personal preference.  Don't tell anyone, but I kind of like pinning EOD just so I feel like I'm doing something.  Otherwise I get impatient and feel like I'm waiting too long.  This has nothing to do with efficacy or stability, I just don't like waiting and anticipating more than 2 days.  Now if I go TRT and have to do this all the time, I'm sure that will change in a hurry and I'll be all about the once a week plan.


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> He's going to argue pinning every 2wks is outside the half life so it's not an accurate comparison but I agree with you that there are reasons to pin more frequently than just at half life lengths



Yep yep

Frank-me and Doc will never spit hate at each; we're the two that stay on medical journals AND he has a bud with access to them, so I have to be nice LOL

Rumpy that aint childish man; I think the preference is why people pin more...like you said, pinning more vs once a week won't hurt anyone so to each his own


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> Yep yep
> 
> Frank-me and Doc will never spit hate at each; we're the two that stay on medical journals AND he has a bud with access to them, so I have to be nice LOL
> 
> Rumpy that aint childish man; I think the preference is why people pin more...like you said, pinning more vs once a week won't hurt anyone so to each his own



Haha yea I know docy from another forum, and I know this friend you speak of...
I do not get to discuss with him personally like doc does but I  know him on the forums...that's if you and I are talking about the same friend of his.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> Yep yep
> 
> Frank-me and Doc will never spit hate at each; we're the two that stay on medical journals AND he has a bud with access to them, so I have to be nice LOL
> 
> Rumpy that aint childish man; I think the preference is why people pin more...like you said, pinning more vs once a week won't hurt anyone so to each his own



We each have a viewpoint and we're arguing in favor of it. No hate whatsoever. 



frank.tb said:


> Haha yea I know docy from another forum, and I know this friend you speak of...
> I do not get to discuss with him personally like doc does but I  know him on the forums...that's if you and I are talking about the same friend of his.



No, I know who you're talking about but Hulk is referencing my cousin as the hospital he works at has subscriptions to all sorts of medical journals. It's like finding the pot at the end of the rainbow hahha


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## DF (Nov 6, 2013)

So here's a question then.  Does the body handle say 1g/test 2x/week differently than it does 2g/test 1x/week?   My thought would be along the line of aromatization of test to E2 and also the production of sides.  I'm curious what you guys think.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 6, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> We each have a viewpoint and we're arguing in favor of it. No hate whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I know who you're talking about but Hulk is referencing my cousin as the hospital he works at has subscriptions to all sorts of medical journals. It's like finding the pot at the end of the rainbow hahha



Awh damn lol

That's badass though...kinda like the connect I.have with a TRT.doc...he's one of those docs that "knows" what's up lol


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

DF said:


> So here's a question then.  Does the body handle say 1g/test 2x/week differently than it does 2g/test 1x/week?   My thought would be along the line of aromatization of test to E2 and also the production of sides.  I'm curious what you guys think.



That is precisely my point, sides become more of an issue the larger the amount of hormones injected in any given Shot. Aromatization happens in direct proportion to test levels so the higher the injection the higher the aromatization and potentiality for sides. Some will notice no difference but for some it could be a big difference. This is part of the reason more TRT guys prefer the twice a week injections, they prefer the stability as without the exogenous test they have not enough test production going on naturally and the peaks and troughs produce unfavorable results for many. Serum levels will actually be higher with less frequent injection, if still injecting within the half life, but the difference from peak value a day or two after injection and the trough before the next injection is can cause issues.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 6, 2013)

DF said:


> So here's a question then.  Does the body handle say 1g/test 2x/week differently than it does 2g/test 1x/week?   My thought would be along the line of aromatization of test to E2 and also the production of sides.  I'm curious what you guys think.



My answer would be everyone is different. I know guys that run deca or tren without caber or prami at HIGH doses and have no signs of prolactin issues...but their blood work may say differently if they did blood work, but know visible side effects present themselves.
But I would assume the differences between sides from 500mg test once per week and 2GRAMS of test per week would be great...if.you are sensative to sides I would def recommend 2 pins per week, but only one way to find out lol


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 6, 2013)

And then doc.just had to post a more scientific answer!.arruuuhhhhgghhh!


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 6, 2013)

Isn't the new thing to take a shot of cyp ever 83 hours or something weird like that?


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## Iron1 (Nov 6, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Isn't the new thing to take a shot of cyp ever 83 hours or something weird like that?



I don't know if it's new or not but it seems to be a popular injection schedule for people on TRT.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 6, 2013)

DF said:


> So here's a question then.  Does the body handle say 1g/test 2x/week differently than it does 2g/test 1x/week?   My thought would be along the line of aromatization of test to E2 and also the production of sides.  I'm curious what you guys think.



I say yes. Once per week gives you higher peak plasma levels.


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## DF (Nov 6, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Isn't the new thing to take a shot of cyp ever 83 hours or something weird like that?



Cashout was the one to recommend every 84 hours for more stable levels & possibly eliminate the need for an AI.  I do well with injecting every 5 days & no need for an AI (trt dose).


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## hulksmash (Nov 6, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> My answer would be everyone is different. I know guys that run deca or tren without caber or prami at HIGH doses and have no signs of prolactin issues...but their blood work may say differently if they did blood work, but know visible side effects present themselves.
> But I would assume the differences between sides from 500mg test once per week and 2GRAMS of test per week would be great...if.you are sensative to sides I would def recommend 2 pins per week, but only one way to find out lol



Wabted to first say i agree with Doc concerning the majority and aromatizing

With that said, it is like frank says here as well

i'm one of the few that can tell you the difference of 1g 2x a week and 2g once a week because Ive done it

I experienced no increased sides from pinning once

HOWEVER, since I dont get sides at lower dosagee you can expect that

If you get sides from 500-750mg test, you bet your ass you'll get more aromatization/sides with 2g of test-probably more so with one pin a week at those levels, as doc was saying


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 6, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> Wabted to first say i agree with Doc concerning the majority and aromatizing
> 
> With that said, it is like frank says here as well
> 
> ...



We experiment in the name of science brother Hulk 

I experienced no sides except a few days of bloat before getting my A I dosage down right and pinned test e twice a week. My next cycle I plan on pinning it once a week same dosage and everything and comparing serum levels. Only difference is my last cycle was Pinn gear and my next one is going to be home brew, but data is data lol


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## hulksmash (Nov 7, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> We experiment in the name of science brother Hulk
> 
> I experienced no sides except a few days of bloat before getting my A I dosage down right and pinned test e twice a week. My next cycle I plan on pinning it once a week same dosage and everything and comparing serum levels. Only difference is my last cycle was Pinn gear and my next one is going to be home brew, but data is data lol



Sounds good; you'll get way more results with home brew lol

Whats your dosages?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> Sounds good; you'll get way more results with home brew lol
> 
> Whats your dosages?



That's exactly what I'm hoping for lol. 

Haven't decided that yet. I'm thinking of doing my first dance with lady tren, test, and var. When it gets closer I'll make a thread and ask for people's input but thinking this:
Wk 1-14 either low dose test E (~250mg/wk) or I just keep it the same as my last cycle at 625mg and 750mg the last few weeks. 
Wk 2-14 tren A 300-400mg/wk
Wk 6-14 Var 60-80mg/day

Adex, prami, HCG, and clomiphene/tamoxifen for PCT


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## SFGiants (Nov 7, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> That's exactly what I'm hoping for lol.
> 
> Haven't decided that yet. I'm thinking of doing my first dance with lady tren, test, and var. When it gets closer I'll make a thread and ask for people's input but thinking this:
> Wk 1-14 either low dose test E (~250mg/wk) or I just keep it the same as my last cycle at 625mg and 750mg the last few weeks.
> ...




I would add Mast P

Test 250mg weeks 1 to 16
Tren A 350mg Weeks 1 to 6 ( no more then 8 weeks)
Mast P 400mg to 500mg weeks 1 to 16
Var 60mg to 80mg weeks 6 to 16

Run Var when Tren A is removed

I ran Tren A from 350mg up to 700mg and hated it but today I started another run but keeping down to 175mg to 200mg and if that makes me feel to crappy I'm done with Tren, not all like the feel of Tren and not all feel the same on it.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 7, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> That's exactly what I'm hoping for lol.
> 
> Haven't decided that yet. I'm thinking of doing my first dance with lady tren, test, and var. When it gets closer I'll make a thread and ask for people's input but thinking this:
> Wk 1-14 either low dose test E (~250mg/wk) or I just keep it the same as my last cycle at 625mg and 750mg the last few weeks.
> ...



Are you going to run Adex through pct as well? I was involved in a discussion on here about weather or not to run an AI.during.pct...according to everyone here, they say yes...no reason not to. I've always been told to stop AI the day before PCT...
What's your view docy? And why of course...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2013)

SFGiants said:


> I would add Mast P
> 
> Test 250mg weeks 1 to 16
> Tren A 350mg Weeks 1 to 6 ( no more then 8 weeks)
> ...



I would love to hear more of your ideas before I get a thread of my own going. Mind if I Pm you so as not to hijack Frank's thread?



frank.tb said:


> Are you going to run Adex through pct as well? I was involved in a discussion on here about weather or not to run an AI.during.pct...according to everyone here, they say yes...no reason not to. I've always been told to stop AI the day before PCT...
> What's your view docy? And why of course...



I would take the adex all the way up till PCT and even on the first day of it if I wanted to but I wouldn't run it throughout PCT.  If used properly on cycle there's usually no need to use it after the cycle.


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 7, 2013)

You can hijack my thread 
I like the traffic lol


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## SFGiants (Nov 7, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> I would love to hear more of your ideas before I get a thread of my own going. Mind if I Pm you so as not to hijack Frank's thread?
> 
> 
> 
> I would take the adex all the way up till PCT and even on the first day of it if I wanted to but I wouldn't run it throughout PCT.  If used properly on cycle there's usually no need to use it after the cycle.



Sure you can pm me bro!


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## DF (Nov 7, 2013)

Doc if you have never run Prami before I'd recommend using Caber instead.  Prami can make some pretty ill.   Also Caber has some benefits in the bed room (bow chicka bow wow).  I used Prami once.... Never again!  Also you can get some good pharm grade caber.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2013)

SFGiants said:


> Sure you can pm me bro!



Since Frank doesn't mind lol, what's the reasoning behind adding masteron to the cycle? I've not ran tren yet and would prefer to introduce one new compound at a time but if there's a good reason to add it in I'm all ears!



DF said:


> Doc if you have never run Prami before I'd recommend using Caber instead.  Prami can make some pretty ill.   Also Caber has some benefits in the bed room (bow chicka bow wow).  I used Prami once.... Never again!  Also you can get some good pharm grade caber.



DF, haven't ran prami before but I've been researching both caber and prami pretty heavily recently. I've found some info out that would suggest that prami is the superior compound IF one can tolerate the sides. Building up a tolerance to the prami helps and increasing dosages slowly, taking it with food and before bed, etc can help reduce unwanted sides. Prami also has the sexual benefits which come from the agonist actions on the Dopamine receptors and prami acts on more different types of dopamine receptors than caber. Here are another few things I've seen:

1) Prami increases Gh 400%+ whereas caber has not shown any increase.
2) Caber binds to only the D2 receptor whereas Prami binds to D2, D3 & D4 receptors.
3) Prami to my understanding has shown a much higher rate of fat reduction than Caber.
4) Prami is available and effecetive as a RC whereas Caber is not.
5) Prami has been shown to control and reduce lipid levels whereas Caber increases them.
6) Prami has shown to keep TSH steady whereas Prami increases it.
7) Prami has been shown to strengthen bone density whereas Caber reduces it.

What's been your experience with dopamine agonists?


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## DF (Nov 7, 2013)

Great info on Prami doc.  Thank you for posting that up.  They do say to start the dose low & increase it slowly.  Unfortunately this didn't workout for me & I spent the night puking my guts out.  Good to see you've done your research.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2013)

DF said:


> Great info on Prami doc.  Thank you for posting that up.  They do say to start the dose low & increase it slowly.  Unfortunately this didn't workout for me & I spent the night puking my guts out.  Good to see you've done your research.



That sucks with the sides, I'm hoping with some preventative measures I can avoid them. Thanks for the kind words as well. Want to start a thread  soon and get feedback from you guys on the rest of the cycle too


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## f.r.a.n.k. (Nov 7, 2013)

Docd187123 said:


> Since Frank doesn't mind lol, what's the reasoning behind adding masteron to the cycle? I've not ran tren yet and would prefer to introduce one new compound at a time but if there's a good reason to add it in I'm all ears!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



2) you meant Caber then Prami right? Just tryna make sure it's corrected so a noob can read it


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2013)

frank.tb said:


> 2) you meant Caber then Prami right? Just tryna make sure it's corrected so a noob can read it



Yes correct and fixed. Thanks for that eye frank


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## hulksmash (Nov 7, 2013)

Since Im a proponent of KISS, drop everything and just run Test and Tren but at higher dosages

No need for 2 extra compounds; just make up the difference with higher dose


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## heavyiron (Nov 27, 2013)

TPP is virtually painless for me. I absolutely love the PP ester.


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## shenky (Nov 30, 2013)

Rumpy said:


> The half life of Phenylpropinate is long enough that pinning EOD is enough, right.  That's how I've used NPP, but I haven't used TPP yet



apologies for ignorance, but TPP is test phenyl prop? If so, I'm 90 percent sure phenylprop can be injected every third day. The half life is 4.5 days. I think it's regularly injected eod because it's usually stacked with prop


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## Rumpy (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm using a TPP/NPP blend right now.  I like EOD and I don't mind that it's on different days of the week each week.  I think SFG like M/W/F.  I'm sure either is fine, but I would go more that 2X week.  I think E3D might give some peaks and valleys but I've never tried it so I can't really say.  Either way, we always compare dosages based on a weekly average, so if you do go E3D, that's 2.33 pins per week (7/3), so multiply the amount per pin by that to get your weekly average, or divide the weekly dose to get you pin dose.


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