# When to say when (Training Volume)



## dk8594 (Apr 9, 2018)

I’ve been training for over 25 years.  For first twenty (before I started TRT), I subscribed to a Dorian Yates style approach of high-intensity/Low volume.  Intellectually, the approach still makes sense to me, but since starting TRT the volume I can do while continuing to grow has increased exponentially and overtraining has more to do with the quality of my sleep than he number of sets I do at the gym.  Lately, however, I feel that the volume has gotten a little absurd and want to do a gut check with the rest of you to see what your criteria is for determining # of working sets.

So,what criteria do you use to evaluate whether you need more training volume, less training volume, or have dialed it in?


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 9, 2018)

Funny I just saw a post on IG from Dave Tate talking about how new guys need to learn to train harder and experienced guys need to learn to train was hard. 

Do you keep a training log that includes sets x reps x weight and noted on your feels?


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## dk8594 (Apr 9, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Funny I just saw a post on IG from Dave Tate talking about how new guys need to learn to train harder and experienced guys need to learn to train was hard.
> 
> Do you keep a training log that includes sets x reps x weight and noted on your feels?



That's what is having me a little baffled.  I keep a training log and my goal for each workout is to do at least one more rep than I was able to do previously or increase the weight by 5-10% and keep the reps.  Based on the Mentzer/Yates philosophy, I should hit a point where I've increased volume to a point where I"m not reaching those goals anymore, which would signal to reduce volume.  It just hasn't happened that way even though I train each set to failure. I continue to add volume and continue to grow. I'm not complaining.  I just know volume and growth isn't a linear relationship, but I can't figure out where the inflection point is.


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## BRICKS (Apr 9, 2018)

I train with a lot of volume, on or off.  Thus is pretry much what I've allways done:

Chest, back, quads 20 sets.
Shoulders, biceps, triceps 12-16 set
Hamstrings 16 sets
Calves...make them bleed

This isn't counting warm ups, which at 53 I find I'm doing more.

This is every 4 days and rep range is 10-12, sometimes down to 6-8 but not much.  Those 10-12 reps are as heavy as I can handle for that rep range, ie: if it's 10 reps #11 ain't happening.

I take a day off when I need one.  

After 25 years you know what works for you and when you need a break.  I wouldn't worry about your volume if you're continuing to make progress that's satisfactory to your goals.


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## snake (Apr 9, 2018)

I'm dialed in. I know about when I'm going to be over trained and schedule a week off from the gym. Ballpark, I'm good for about 4-5 months until I need a layoff. It doesn't matter the volume, sets, reps or movements. I push the red line and have a good idea when shit's going to go south. 

As for a training log; I can tell you everything I did in the gym on any given day in the lasts 20 years.


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## snake (Apr 9, 2018)

This is a perfect example of how two people are different but close to the same age.



BRICKS said:


> I train with a lot of volume, on or off.  Thus is pretry much what I've allways done:
> 
> Chest, back, quads 20 sets.
> Shoulders, biceps, triceps 12-16 set
> ...




Chest, back, quads 10 sets.
Shoulders, biceps, triceps 4 set
Hamstrings 0 sets
Calves...make them bleed





BRICKS said:


> This is every 4 days and rep range is 10-12, sometimes down to 6-8 but not much.  Those 10-12 reps are as heavy as I can handle for that rep range, ie: if it's 10 reps #11 ain't happening.



I hit one body part a week.




BRICKS said:


> I take a day off when I need one.




I know when I'm going to need one and it's already scheduled in.


Bottom line is you need to learn your body and then need to listen to it.


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## dk8594 (Apr 9, 2018)

Thanks Snake/Bricks.  I needed the sanity check.


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## Uncle manny (Apr 9, 2018)

Under recovered is usually the culprit as opposed to over trained. I remember the first few months after my son was born. Felt like complete shit. A couple hours of sleep if I was lucky, waking up 5 am to train clients all day then squeezing in a shity work out at the end of the day. Meals were all fked up too seeing if I can eat what ever whenever. Once I stared to get 5 hours of sleep and my meals back on track strength and well being went up. Your body will tell you what it needs. Sleep and food are so crucial in any given training regime.


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## dk8594 (Apr 9, 2018)

snake said:


> I push the red line and have a good idea when shit's going to go south.
> 
> As for a training log; I can tell you everything I did in the gym on any given day in the lasts 20 years.



Do you notice a pattern in your journal that hints that things are about to decline or it more just a feeling that it's time for some rest?


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## snake (Apr 10, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> Do you notice a pattern in your journal that hints that things are about to decline or it more just a feeling that it's time for some rest?



My over training follows a set pattern.
1. Gym weights feel heavy
2. Gym training weights start to level off
3. The body starts to hurt.
4. Gym weights go down and the joints hurt
5. A repetitive motion injury comes on
6. Something tears


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## automatondan (Apr 10, 2018)

snake said:


> My over training follows a set pattern.
> 1. Gym weights feel heavy
> 2. Gym training weights start to level off
> 3. The body starts to hurt.
> ...



I think I might be near here right now, but ive never experienced this before... At least not like this...


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## BRICKS (Apr 10, 2018)

Pretty much the same as Snake for me.  Usually I can mitigate this because it doeant hit everything all at the same time.  After a few weeks of heavy high rep squats I have to skip the squats in leg or back the weights down.  If I don't cycle the weight at times joints and tendons start to hurt.  No bueno.  But again, by listening to what my body is telling me and  responding appropriately I can  continue to train at a fairly intense level.  Just focus more on form, time under tension, etc....than weight.


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## dk8594 (Apr 10, 2018)

snake said:


> My over training follows a set pattern.
> 1. Gym weights feel heavy
> 2. Gym training weights start to level off
> 3. The body starts to hurt.
> ...



Hope it never gets too far past #1. Hope it never gets to #6.   Good gauge for an overtraining spectrum. Thanks for posting.


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## vegasdeadlifts (Apr 10, 2018)

snake said:


> My over training follows a set pattern.
> 1. Gym weights feel heavy
> 2. Gym training weights start to level off
> 3. The body starts to hurt.
> ...



Pretty much spot on in my experience. I learned my lesson pushing past #4 and will never do that again. Whenever i feel that overtraining effect, it's time to deload and I'm always way better off for it in many ways


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## snake (Apr 11, 2018)

vegasdeadlifts said:


> Pretty much spot on in my experience. I learned my lesson pushing past #4 and will never do that again. Whenever i feel that overtraining effect, it's time to deload and I'm always way better off for it in many ways



I don't deload. I don't have a problem with someone that does for I understand the principals behind it. My issue with deloading is it's something other then 100% or 0%. I'm like a light switch that has no dimmer; I'm either off or on.


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