# Watch your kidney function GFR



## TheSpectre (Mar 1, 2020)

The hospital said I was at %25 GFR. I'm only on a light Dbol cycle. Get your blood work done!


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## NbleSavage (Mar 1, 2020)

TheSpectre said:


> The hospital said I was at %25 function. I'm only on a light Dbol cycle. Get your blood work done!



Fookin' ell, Mate. You right? Doesn't sound like something that should be brought about by just a bit of dbol but everyone responds to orals differently.

Good reminder about getting bloods.


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## SFGiants (Mar 1, 2020)

NbleSavage said:


> Fookin' ell, Mate. You right? Doesn't sound like something that should be brought about by just a bit of dbol but everyone responds to orals differently.
> 
> Good reminder about getting bloods.



Iv'e been on tren and other stuff having ultrasound done and imagine a few times and never told something like this.


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## tinymk (Mar 1, 2020)

More to the event then a dbol cycle I would imagine.


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## Ragingmenace223 (Mar 1, 2020)

uhhh...getting my blood work Tuesday. i pray i never get stones but heard a lot of protein can cause it . not real sure how true that is but ima go drink a gallon of cranberry juice after reading this.


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## Ragingmenace223 (Mar 1, 2020)

im actually scared to get it done but better off knowing i guess...


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## Seeker (Mar 1, 2020)

Get bloodwork done privately when you're on blast. Especially if your blasting harsh compounds. Actually, in general when blasting. Unless you have a great trusting relationship with a Dr. Who's actually monitoring your blasts.  Bloodwork will always come back with negative shit  during blasts and last thing you want is all that on your file. Imo. Get bloods off cycle through Dr.


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## snake (Mar 1, 2020)

Boytoy said:


> Underlying issue maybe?



Yeah there has to be. Complete kidney failure has the kidneys working at only about 15%. This is nothing to fuuk with unless you want to wake up dead.


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## rawdeal (Mar 1, 2020)

NbleSavage said:


> Fookin' ell, Mate. You right? Doesn't sound like something that should be brought about by just a bit of dbol but everyone responds to orals differently.
> 
> Good reminder about getting bloods.



Whatever he, or we, are doing right now doesn't always matter.  It certainly *could*, but not necessarily.  Most users know we can damage our Livers somewhat, and the damn thing will bounce right back if more common sense and less abuse is then employed; the Liver is a resilient organ.

This is not so with Kidneys.  Anything we've done to damage them is much less reversible than it is with Livers, even if we are living clean presently.  Another worrisome factor is that it is normal for Kidney function to decline as we age, no matter how cleanly we've lived from cradle to old age. That normal decline isn't too worrisome *by itself*; we'll usually die from any number of other things before Kidneys become a "cause of death."  Added to some other thing compromising "glomerular filtration rate," however, it's not our friend.


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## mugzy (Mar 3, 2020)

As rawdeal said kidney function is not reversable. You could have a lower GFR reading for various reasons such as dehydration or eating a high protein diet however it would be +/- 5 at best.

Diabetes and high blood pressure are a big contributor to kidney failure.

You are currently in stage 4 kidney failure. When your GFR drops to 15% dialysis is required to live. You can stop the degradation however you cannot reverse it. I would give up all anabolics and start a plant based diet immediately.



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## Beserker (Mar 3, 2020)

Could this be from the benzos or whatever homemade stuff it is you are/were taking? If so... might want to give anyone who used it a heads up to cease and desist...That shit could be kidney krypronite..


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## Jin (Mar 3, 2020)

Very serious condition you’re in. 

Heed Mugzy’s advice and plan on a complete lifestyle change. No more rec drugs/partying. 

Those days are over if you intend to live. 

Good luck.


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## Grinch (Mar 4, 2020)

TIL my kidneys are at stage 2 of kidney disease. Actually much better than I assumed. That 20s decade was a doozy.


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## j2048b (Mar 4, 2020)

astragalus for kidneys

Research this stuff

Dante trudel (doggcrapp screen name all boards ,also the ceo of true nutrition)  has a lot of bodybuilders on this and other stuff to help kidneys 

Plus other stuff for heart and circulatory


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## BRICKS (Mar 4, 2020)

mugzy said:


> As rawdeal said kidney function is not reversable. You could have a lower GFR reading for various reasons such as dehydration or eating a high protein diet however it would be +/- 5 at best.
> 
> Diabetes and high blood pressure are a big contributor to kidney failure.
> 
> ...



Also gonna add to this that supplementing with creatine will affect your numbers.  It's happened to me before with a supp I was taking, not for the creatine, but nevertheless it had creatine.  Your GFR is a calculated number based off your creatinine.  Creatine will elevate your serum creatinine levels.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170516/


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## rawdeal (Mar 4, 2020)

BRICKS said:


> Also gonna add to this that supplementing with creatine will affect your numbers.  It's happened to me before with a supp I was taking, not for the creatine, but nevertheless it had creatine.  Your GFR is a calculated number based off your creatinine.  Creatine will elevate your serum creatinine levels.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170516/



Yup, Snake and I bounced around on the GFR thing in some thread here or elsewhere a while back . . . what always shows up on my bloodwork is "eGFR,"  with the  e  standing for "estimated."

Wondering if that implies any "temporary" or "at the moment" factor in an eGFR reading, or if the medical pro's who create charts like the one Mugzy shared have another way of calculating things that is more indicative of where a patient really stands.  In other words, if you get your eGFR number and then cease many dietary items like meat, and many otc and ug supps, would a new eGFR reading improve?  In OTHER other words, is a eGFR number a true indicator of irreversible kidney damage, or more like a warning to stop doing what you're doing?  Could a number from labwork improve while the damage does not?


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## TheSpectre (Mar 4, 2020)

Ragingmenace223 said:


> uhhh...getting my blood work Tuesday. i pray i never get stones but heard a lot of protein can cause it . not real sure how true that is but ima go drink a gallon of cranberry juice after reading this.



That may be the cause as my urine is really bubbly. I upped the pure water and cut the rest out. They said I was dehydrated.

No creatine. I was on an antibiotic (Bactrim) that can affect it....


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## TheSpectre (Mar 4, 2020)

Beserker said:


> Could this be from the benzos or whatever homemade stuff it is you are/were taking? If so... might want to give anyone who used it a heads up to cease and desist...That shit could be kidney krypronite..



Started before even starting that stuff. Psych took my blood and it was high along with calcium levels. Plus, two friends have been on that stuff daily for just as long with no problems. I'm just going to eat clean and try my best to be  healthy. 

Honestly, it may be from taking too much GBL. I was right before this started.


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## TheSpectre (Mar 4, 2020)

Thanks for the replies brothers. I'm no longer retaining water in my calves and am urinating like I normally should.


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## rawdeal (Mar 4, 2020)

GREAT!  What does your doctor recommend going forward?


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## NbleSavage (Mar 4, 2020)

TheSpectre said:


> Thanks for the replies brothers. I'm no longer retaining water in my calves and am urinating like I normally should.



Good news, Mate. Hope ye stay on the mend.


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## TheSpectre (Mar 4, 2020)

rawdeal said:


> GREAT!  What does your doctor recommend going forward?



I see him next week. So not sure yet. Hopefully it keeps improving.


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## TheSpectre (Mar 4, 2020)

NbleSavage said:


> Good news, Mate. Hope ye stay on the mend.



Thanks bro.


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## BRICKS (Mar 5, 2020)

rawdeal said:


> Yup, Snake and I bounced around on the GFR thing in some thread here or elsewhere a while back . . . what always shows up on my bloodwork is "eGFR,"  with the  e  standing for "estimated."
> 
> Wondering if that implies any "temporary" or "at the moment" factor in an eGFR reading, or if the medical pro's who create charts like the one Mugzy shared have another way of calculating things that is more indicative of where a patient really stands.  In other words, if you get your eGFR number and then cease many dietary items like meat, and many otc and ug supps, would a new eGFR reading improve?  In OTHER other words, is a eGFR number a true indicator of irreversible kidney damage, or more like a warning to stop doing what you're doing?  Could a number from labwork improve while the damage does not?



All your lab values are a snapshot of that given moment in time, and yes, changing certain lifestyle things like what you put into your body and exercise can change your lab values.  If it's a supplement like creatine that's increasing your serum creatinine and thus affecting your GFR value, then yes discontinuing that supp should correct those values.  If it doesn't, then that needs to be further investigated.  Plenty of examples of what we do affecting those numbers.  AAS tend to raise HCT in some people.  Quit the AAS and HCT returns to normal.  Weight training can cause elevated liver enzymes, high protein diet an elevatedd BUN, and while genetics plays a pretty heavy hand in cholesterol, lifestyle affects this too.  Many minor lab variations have rational explanations in the absence of underlying disease.  Looking at the whole picture, and follow up labs and studies are the approach to take, and serious variations from the norm need to be taken seriously.


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## rawdeal (Mar 5, 2020)

BRICKS said:


> . . . Looking at the whole picture, and follow up labs and studies are the approach to take, and serious variations from the norm need to be taken seriously.



THIS  ^^^  for sure.  It's the rest I'm not sure of.  Please note I am trying to understand the whole Kidney thing better and *not* to argue.  I have always read that Kidneys do not bounce back like the Liver, presumably like other parts of the body either, and that damage is irreversible.  That HCT and other components of the blood itself, or Lipids and other things that float around in the blood *can *be improved may not demonstrate that Kidney function can also be improved ... I think?  I'm not sure?  I don't know?

Maybe the OP's follow-up visit to his doctor will shed some light on this.


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## TheSpectre (Mar 5, 2020)

rawdeal said:


> THIS  ^^^  for sure.  It's the rest I'm not sure of.  Please note I am trying to understand the whole Kidney thing better and *not* to argue.  I have always read that Kidneys do not bounce back like the Liver, presumably like other parts of the body either, and that damage is irreversible.  That HCT and other components of the blood itself, or Lipids and other things that float around in the blood *can *be improved may not demonstrate that Kidney function can also be improved ... I think?  I'm not sure?  I don't know?
> 
> Maybe the OP's follow-up visit to his doctor will shed some light on this.



I'll see what they tell me when my next blood work comes back. I think it was mainly from drinking that GBL multiple times a day for a couple of months + Bactrim messes with BUN levels. 1,4-butaindiol (sp)  really messed with my kidneys like 15 years ago. Luckily I quit taking it after falling flat on my face and breaking my nose ending up in the hospital. Maybe GBL is similar, but not quite as harsh....


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## BRICKS (Mar 5, 2020)

rawdeal said:


> THIS  ^^^  for sure.  It's the rest I'm not sure of.  Please note I am trying to understand the whole Kidney thing better and *not* to argue.  I have always read that Kidneys do not bounce back like the Liver, presumably like other parts of the body either, and that damage is irreversible.  That HCT and other components of the blood itself, or Lipids and other things that float around in the blood *can *be improved may not demonstrate that Kidney function can also be improved ... I think?  I'm not sure?  I don't know?
> 
> Maybe the OP's follow-up visit to his doctor will shed some light on this.



Damage to your kidneys from pathology isn't reversible.  Lab values reflecting things like a high protein diet (elevated BUN) or as I mentioned an altered GFR because of a supplement like creatine are not indicative of pathology and are reversible.  Thus the paragraph you quoted. There is nothing in my original post that is untrue.  This isn't an area I researched for a thread, this is an important part of how I earn my living for the last 25 years.


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## rawdeal (Mar 5, 2020)

Sounds like you would be the man to ask what's really been on my mind then.  Bro-science often cites Tren as a threat to Kidneys . . . 

Does Tren do irreversible pathological damage to the Kidneys, or does it simply affect labwork numbers temporarily like creatine does?
Or, might it be a combination of the 2 effects, whereby labs look bad right after a Tren cycle but rebound, partially, sometime after cessation of Tren?


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## BRICKS (Aug 28, 2021)

Chronic hypertension (untreated) can lead to kidney damage.  This is a risk with any AAS.  To say one or the other of the compounds you are using is the culprit is a more difficult conclusion.  One could say ok, I was using test for years, no problems, I added the tren and now there's a problem.  Well, ok, but how do you know or not know that those years of test use without problems weren't setting you up for what I happening now?  Understand that all AAS carry the risk of side effects.  I'm not talking about "irritating" sides that everyone seems so hung up on, like hair loss, insomnia, night sweats, etc....Those don't kill you.  I'm talking about hypertension, increased risk of heart attack and stroke, etc...

Know the risks and proceed with caution and an understanding of those risks.

Labs should return to normal values after discontinuing AAS in the absence of underlying pathology.  If you have concerns, get things checked out.  And if you see a doc for this you're going to have to be honest about what you've been doing so you and he aren't chasing your tails.  I often hear about how docs don't know WTF they're doing. Well, how the fk can they be expected to help out if they're not getting the full picture of what's been going on to begin with.

Hope this is helpful brother.


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