# Toremifene PCT....Is it REALLY as good as it sounds??



## Popeye (Nov 1, 2012)

It sounds great to me.....less side effects....PERIOD!

It had me at that.....though there seems to be many other positives as well.

The problem I'm having is on researching and real life results. There are some good, some bad, and rarely with bloods to back it up.

I've noticed a couple guys here have used Torem in their PCT protocol. Instead of just PMing them about it for my own knowledge, or searching old threads (which I've done plenty of), I've decided on refreshing the idea in hopes to get a good thread going on Toremifene and it's possibilities as a "better"  PCT.

Who's run it?

Have you ran other SERM's and were the results better/same/worse?

Dosing?

Any other questions or statements about Torem?

(PLEASE refrain from cut/paste of endless pages of studies and/or wiki articles..etc.)


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 1, 2012)

I ran 

Torm 
120/60/60/60

Aromasin
12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5

and it was awesome. I was hitting PR's thru torem pct.  And I didn't cry. Not once.


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## Times Roman (Nov 1, 2012)

fuk I don't know, i'm an old bull and TRT


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## Popeye (Nov 1, 2012)

pillarofbalance said:


> it was awesome. I was hitting pr's thru pct.  *and i didn't cry. Not once.*



lol....nice!


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## Christosterone (Nov 1, 2012)

U saying torem over clomid?


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 1, 2012)

Christosterone said:


> U saying torem over clomid?




Absolutely.


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## Popeye (Nov 1, 2012)

I hear it works the same as clomid...if not better AND minus the harsh sides of other SERMs


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## SAD (Nov 1, 2012)

The PCT outlined by POB is exactly what I ran multiple times (ironic isn't it  ) all with great results and bloodwork to back it up.  This was after a couple of runs with nolva/clomid and so-so results.

What else do you want to know?  You try it, you'll love it.


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## SuperBane (Nov 1, 2012)

What about adding in a low dose of Clomid?


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## Popeye (Nov 2, 2012)

SAD said:


> The PCT outlined by POB is exactly what I ran multiple times (ironic isn't it  ) all with great results and bloodwork to back it up.  This was after a couple of runs with nolva/clomid and so-so results.
> 
> What else do you want to know?  You try it, you'll love it.



Hey SAD...in your sticky you say you only frontloaded the torem one day right, so in POB protocol, do you recommend the 120 for a week or the other way?


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## SAD (Nov 2, 2012)

Ahhhh, thanks for pointing that out.  When I read POB's outline above, I skimmed over that, but either way is acceptable.  I just frontloaded day 1 because as an oral with a short active life,  one week is overkill IMO.  But as I said, either way is effective.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 2, 2012)

SAD said:


> The PCT outlined by POB is exactly what I ran multiple times (ironic isn't it  ) all with great results and bloodwork to back it up.  This was after a couple of runs with nolva/clomid and so-so results.
> 
> What else do you want to know?  You try it, you'll love it.



Sorry. Credit due to SAD, he recommended it to me and I loved it.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 2, 2012)

Superman said:


> What about adding in a low dose of Clomid?



Why? What is the clomid gonna due that the torem won't?


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## SAD (Nov 2, 2012)

PillarofBalance said:


> Why? What is the clomid gonna due that the torem won't?



Exactly.  And it IS possible to overstimulate the HPTA, which is counter-productive and damaging.  Torem is all inclusive bros, don't fuck with the recipe, it works.


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## Popeye (Nov 2, 2012)

Completely agree here...clomid and/or clomid/nolva is basically what is trying to be avoided due to their undesirable sides

The point of the torem pct protocol REPLACES the clomid and/or clomid/nolva protocol with same results (possibly better) but less sides.

I can't wait to try it! Thanks guys!


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## Cobra Strike (Nov 2, 2012)

Im sorry guys but Torem is not the answer. Clomid works a hell of alot more often then torem does. You just cant beat clomid. What sides are you guys worried about...some tracers from taking to much clomid? If we are talking about being worried about sides then you shouldnt even use steroids in the first place.

I spend to much time away from this board and shit like this slips by...ok listen guys..you want real life experience vs scientific..here it is...In my experience torem works for 25% of people where clomid works for 99%. Those are real life stats. Ive know many people who have ran torem in pct and it didnt do a god dam thing for them....however I have never heard of clomid not stimulating the hpta...The people torem works for, it works well for, but most of the people wont have such luck. As for torem with myself..I ran it at 120/120/90/60...my test levels were in the dumps. I will never run torem again for a pct or anything else. 

To sum this up...torem is good if it works for you but clomid is tried and true, medically proven, still prescribed, and hands down the best product you can use in pct, during a cycle, or anytime to boost spermatogenesis. Sorry to play devils advocate guys


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## Popeye (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks Cobra...I wanted some differing views on the subject.....as far as sides though...of course if something worked the same with less sides..I would rather use that.

But you are very correct on tried and true and I would hate to try Torem and prolong recovery.....

Now I'm not sure...I have a few weeks to decide:-?


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## Cobra Strike (Nov 2, 2012)

the only way you will know is by trying it bro. Im not saying dont try it..it might work for you...only one way to find out.

as far as sides...ive taken clomid at 100mg a day for 30 days...dr scallys protocol...day 27 I started getting crazy tracers but only at night. I continued to take the clomid. Everyone makes these so called "side effects" out to be some terrible shit...this is just hype...its not like your liver is going to fall out of your body...the sides are very managable. If you cant handle it then stop taking it...clomid doesnt take long to get through your system.


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## Popeye (Nov 2, 2012)

Ya I've read studies where severe clomid sides are only when taken in upwards of 300mg, where as Scallys is WAY under that

The irreversible vision loss is what made me research other ideas, but like I said, that was with triple and quadruple the amount of standard PCTs for AAS use.

What are your thoughts on clomid and nolva combo...or are you just a clomid alone kinda bro?

I was thinking about trying the Torem...because like you said, as with everything, there's only one way to find out!


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## Popeye (Nov 2, 2012)

I also agree that there is a lot of up-hype on sides and pip and a lot of other BS


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## SAD (Nov 2, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Im sorry guys but Torem is not the answer. Clomid works a hell of alot more often then torem does. You just cant beat clomid. What sides are you guys worried about...some tracers from taking to much clomid? If we are talking about being worried about sides then you shouldnt even use steroids in the first place.
> 
> I spend to much time away from this board and shit like this slips by...ok listen guys..you want real life experience vs scientific..here it is...In my experience torem works for 25% of people where clomid works for 99%.




I'll go at this a little bit at a time, because there is a lot here.  You cannot make an absolute statement like "Torem is not the answer" about something that will and does change from one individual to the next.  Then you say basically not to worry about sides?  We should all strive to mitigate sides, because it is the side effects that affect our health adversely.  You do a disservice to the community when you make a statement which basically advocates not caring about side effects.

Nothing slipped by CS.  Those of us who have had great success with Torem/Aromasin shared our stories, as was asked by the OP.  And nobody gave anything _but_ "real life experience".

You'll see that I called Clomid/Nolva the old tried and true, and I stand by that, because it has worked for millions.  But sharing my experience with Torem/Aromasin is something that I think can help others that read this thread, if they so choose to try it.  Sorry it didn't work for you, and sorry that you weren't around to keep us from slipping our bullshit by, but open your mind up a touch.  And for the sake of the newbies out there, don't ever downplay sides like they should not be respected.


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## 69nites (Nov 2, 2012)

I have seen people not respond to torem at all. For this reason I recommend having a standard clomid pct on hand the first time running torem just in case.


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## Popeye (Nov 2, 2012)

That was a rather blunt statement....about torem

@69nites I do have clomid and nolva...no torem...I am going to try and get my hands on some I agree that it is a good idea


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## SAD (Nov 2, 2012)

Manpower Nutrition for all your research purposes Popeye.  They've never done me or anyone I know wrong.


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## Cobra Strike (Nov 2, 2012)

@ sad....a disservice? Bahaha bro watch your mouth. You don't even know me. You wanna make an enemy fast keep talking like that. I'm glad torem worked for you and pob but this whole thread was sucking torems cock. You wanna try and be progressive...fine with me but i will absolutely stick to my previous statement "TOREM IS NOT THE ANSWER" because the fact us its not. Forget about it not working for me....lets talk about all the guys i know on the boards and in my gym that have tried torem and it failed. I know two guys torem worked for..now with you two that is four....sp out of 50+ guys I've reviewed that is a whopping amount of success. This thread would have been a disservice if i didn't speak up. Clomid and nolva is the old tried and true method you say....that is the biggest load of shit out of your mouth yet. Clomid and nolva is hands down the best dam compounds you can use in pct. I remember when torem hit the boards...its popularity quickly died when blood work started coming out....same shit happened with triptorelin. Show me some medical research proving torems efficacy...you can't...bro science is all you got. Bro science to me shows it only working on a select few people.

As far as sides go....I'm saying if your that worried about them then don't do the shit in the first place. I agree with trying to control them but the fact remains that they are reality and they will occur and you can't always stop them. Also ibwas dpeaking of clomid sides....god dam if your worried about clomid sides then heaven forbid you drink alcohol or take vitamin c....cmon man you wanna pivk a fight then your picking it with the wrong mother fucker


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 2, 2012)

Cobra, what cycle are you running right now?


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## SAD (Nov 2, 2012)

Cobra strike, do you know what "tried and true" means?  Lol.  Reasoning with you is like reasoning with deadweight on tren, only you spell better.

And internet bullying doesn't work on grown men.


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## Cobra Strike (Nov 2, 2012)

Oh I'm not bullying shit....just don't appreciate being dis respected. How can you talk about reasoning when i am arguing facts and you are arguing something that has worked for you? Don't come in trying to be some dam authority on pct bro...i won't let that garbage get spread and allow guys who really know the big picture come into this board and see that si doesn't know shit...lots of info here but not a lot coming from you


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 2, 2012)

I've read this thread 3 times now and I don't see where SAD was disrespectful. Chill out or I lock what could be a good informative thread.


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## SAD (Nov 2, 2012)

I haven't seen one scientific fact laid down by either side.  Both of us claim to know people, including ourselves, who's experience with torem mirrors one's own argument.

The only difference is one person thinks their experiences should weigh heavier because they are yelling louder and puffing their chest out.

If you don't think I've brought any info to this board, that's fine.  I will continue to share my experience and knowledge with the confidence that comes from having the best intentions.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 2, 2012)

I like pancakes


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## 69nites (Nov 2, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Oh I'm not bullying shit....just don't appreciate being dis respected. How can you talk about reasoning when i am arguing facts and you are arguing something that has worked for you? Don't come in trying to be some dam authority on pct bro...i won't let that garbage get spread and allow guys who really know the big picture come into this board and see that si doesn't know shit...lots of info here but not a lot coming from you


He offers actual personal experience. What do you really offer? Knowing a few guys that it didn't work for? What about the 4 people in this thread that recover better on torem than clomid?

How do I know your friends didn't get bunk torem?

I know a handful of guys that it hasn't worked for and a huge mass of guys that it has.

Who are you to say something isn't the answer? For some torem is.

Cobra in my experience with you on this board you read what you want to about something and you block out everything that doesn't coincide with your view.


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## Christosterone (Nov 2, 2012)

Loud noises, and of course you do POB


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## Cobra Strike (Nov 3, 2012)

Puffing my chest hahhaha this is the internet...I'm not puffing my chest nor am i trying to claim anout knowing anyone. 

If you guys want to try and discredit my experience than cool whatever. All i simply did was bringbin the fact that torem is less successful in pct then clomid/nolva. You guys want to say that I'm closed minded then cool. I'm more open minded here then pretty much anyone. I'm not going to join your torem is the shit team when i know better. This is the same situation if i was taight 2 + 2 = 4 but you guys are trying to tell me it equals 3. 50+ people I've reviewed with torem. Not a few. Yes some of them probably did get bunk torem but i know some of them also got torem from manpower  there is always bunk in the equation. Head over to mesa and ask dr scally why he doesn't offer torem in his pct....or get with dr christler and ask him why he doesn't either...I'd be very interested in hearing what their reason is. This shouldn't even be an arguement. Torem pails in comparison to the success of clomid and nolva in recovery. Disagree with that all you want but its the truth....

I can see what is happening here. If i don't agree with what is said on this site i get flamed and ganged up on. You guys enjoy yourselves because I'm not gonna sit here and read this bullshit or be apart of it....

Congrats...torem is the answer bahahaha


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## Cobra Strike (Nov 3, 2012)

Appreciate this post here bro. So basically your saying that my personal experience doesn't mean shit. I offered my personal experience just as sad did but you say i didn't offer any. Ok

Let me correct my earlier statement.....torem isn't the BEST answer.  

And as far as your observation about me....you couldn't be further from the truth. I am only here to help people and I've helped more then my fair share. What i do here on this board is only repky to the threads with people asking for help  i don't take part in all the rest of the bullshit so if that's what you mean by picking and choosing then your correct. I now know what you truly think of what i have to say and your entitled to that. Its all good. 





69nites said:


> He offers actual personal experience. What do you really offer? Knowing a few guys that it didn't work for? What about the 4 people in this thread that recover better on torem than clomid?
> 
> How do I know your friends didn't get bunk torem?
> 
> ...


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## DADAWG (Nov 3, 2012)

heres what i do know , i have helped several members on different boards who tried torem and didnt recover well or at all , maybe it workes better for some people but not others . the fact is clomid has been doing the job for a long time.


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## DarksideSix (Nov 3, 2012)

SILENCE!!......Dawg has spoken!


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## Fsuphisig (Sep 8, 2015)

Knew it sounded too good to be true. Anyone got
Bloods after torem pct ?


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## Luscious Lei (Sep 8, 2015)

I did all my first cycles PCT with torem only (three cycles).
I guess I recovered well because the PCT were a breeze and when I did blood a few years later my natty test was at almost 800 @ 37yo.


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