# Body rejects hormones?



## metsfan4life (Nov 30, 2016)

Ok so I've talked to several on the board, mainly thru PMs, about this over the past couple of years off and on. Figured Id see if anyone might have any insight on this. It appears that my body metabolizes the hormones or simply rejects them. POB would be a good comment on this as I have talked to him probably more than anyone on this.

LET ME MIND YOU, I AM TYPE 1 DIABETIC. Not sure how much this will play a roll but I know there are a ton of Type1s that cycle. 

1st cycle ever was simply Test at 500mg/wk....went great. only sides I ever got was water retention and some itchy nips. No libido increase. Strength was up
Several more cycles over the course of years. Usually they were one of the following:
1) Test P, Mast P, Tren A 350/wk. another was 500wk. another was 1000mg/wk (more like 1250 TP, 1000mg TrenA/MastP.... this was for 8wks after 6wks on the 500mg/wk)
2) Test E, Deca 500mg/wk. 
3) Test E, NPP 500mg/wk
4) Test C, Tren E, Mast E 600mg/wk (current)
dbol, winstrol, anavar, adrol mixed into them as well.

DNP got me good tho, I will say that. Sweated my ass off in summer. I slept fine tho, other than a few nights tossing to find a cool spot on the bed. But never really drenched anything. Only lost about 3lbs tho which is the weird thing but it made me sweat like a mofo 

Ok so lets get to it... I have never had any sides really from anything. NO deca dick. Tren gives me ZERO sides regardless of whether its at 300mg/wk or when I took 1000mg/wk Ace. THe 1st time I took Tren, I got good results for about 6wks and ever sense then, I get nothing, literally nothing, not fat loss (diet controlled with help), strength was never noted, no sweats/insomnia/aggression/etc. Never got anything from Winstrol other than it making me pee a ton, was at low bf% and really didnt see anything. Im currently taking dbol (I have taken it 1 other time in 4yrs) at 100mg/day and all I get is an itchy back. But anything I take, it really seems it effects me for minimal weeks and then there is no response to anything at all, other than the Test.

I get bloods drawn on each cycle, test is always above the range with PrivateMDLabs and with the tren the RBC is high. I do get a tightness of the chest with a little difficulty with the breathing, but I am still able to do pretty good cardio. Liver/Kidney levels usually higher with on an oral, to be expected. Libido is thru the roof about for 2-3wks after the Test kicks in but then its gone. Estrogen is in check per the blood levels as well. 

It really seems like my body either does 1 of 2 things:
1) uses the hormones and becomes accustom to them pretty quick and normalizes or
2) simply rejects everything other than test and kills it somehow.

Mind you, I have given the same products to close friends of mine for theirs, no issues and loves it. Bloods and this show that its not fake. Mind you, I have taken Clen on 2 occasions, 1: normalized methods and 2: took 150-200mcg/day and got nothing, not even hand shakes. Thought it was crap so gave it away, dude had shakes for days. Also mind you I can take 6 Monsters in a day and not feel anything, I dont do that anymore, I avoid them all together. 200mg caffeine pills do nothing.  So as you can see, its not just hormones, its really anything that I put in there. Taken 3 medical pain killers that was supposed to knock me out during heavy leg contractions (theres a thread somewhere about it where my arms and legs lock up in the muscles and do not relax for about 30mins) and never knocked me out,. 

So seeing if anyone has any thoughts about this. Please no "its fake" because that isnt the issue. Or "you dont see sides, thats great" because Id love no sides as long as I get more benefits from it. But really, the tren doesnt do the strength or lean (and yes, I have worked with 3 nutritionist while on cycle, 1 of them being from the board). Its more like a guessing game, which is why I keep trying to find that right number to see if that helps with getting better results. 

Mets


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## metsfan4life (Nov 30, 2016)

want to mind you another on the diet...

Ive ran several versions of Protein/Carbs/Fat combos that were set up by the 3 people mentioned above. Regardless if Im running keto, low carb, carb cycle, or high card...its all the same. One thing you see many people talk about is being lethargic while on keto or low carb, I dont get that...Im the same whether Im running 0, 50, 100, or 350. To the opposite of this, many love that carb replenish day and fill full and large after and the next day, muscles fully replenished... nah. Feel and look the same after a replenish day.
This is what has led me to believe that my body has some weird sort of chemistry makeup that I yet to fully figure out the magic key numbers to


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## metsfan4life (Nov 30, 2016)

thread on the muscle contractions. https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/21586-Elbow-constant-paint


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 30, 2016)

Are you in any medications


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## MrRippedZilla (Nov 30, 2016)

Alongside Doc's Q, do you have a family history of any medical conditions/traits that can be passed down through the gene pool?


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## metsfan4life (Nov 30, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Are you in any medications



yes, Novalog and Lantus for diabetes. Synthroid for thyroid. nothing more



MrRippedZilla said:


> Alongside Doc's Q, do you have a family history of any medical conditions/traits that can be passed down through the gene pool?



nope, Im the only one in the family from all sides that has type 1. no heart issues, medical issues, etc.


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## automatondan (Nov 30, 2016)

I think I know whats going on... You are actually a superhero and you have an incredibly fast healing process like Wolverine so your body metabolizes whatever you put into it almost immediately. Sorry, not sorry. Lucky bastard...


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## TrickWilliams (Nov 30, 2016)

automatonDan said:


> I think I know whats going on... You are actually a superhero and you have an incredibly fast healing process like Wolverine so your body metabolizes whatever you put into it almost immediately. Sorry, not sorry. Lucky bastard...



Some sort of super being. Centuries ahead of the rest of us. Your an evolved entity with enhanced and adaptive abilities.

Sarcasm aside, I have no idea why someone would be a nonresponder. The idea of an advanced human is pretty awesome though, Id go with that.


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## metsfan4life (Nov 30, 2016)

automatonDan said:


> I think I know whats going on... You are actually a superhero and you have an incredibly fast healing process like Wolverine so your body metabolizes whatever you put into it almost immediately. Sorry, not sorry. Lucky bastard...





TrickWilliams said:


> Some sort of super being. Centuries ahead of the rest of us. Your an evolved entity with enhanced and adaptive abilities.
> 
> Sarcasm aside, I have no idea why someone would be a nonresponder. The idea of an advanced human is pretty awesome though, Id go with that.



yeah that is what I feel like. if only it were true I wouldnt be complaining at all. Seriously... its like whatever I inject or digest, its in and out almost immediately or my body wants to somehow decompose it and render it useless. The Test obviously is the only thing I can ever confirm, but then again, its just bloods being high. Makes me sometimes want to stop trying to figure it out but hey, soon as I do is when I would have ended up figuring this damn puzzle out!


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 1, 2016)

Certain genetic polymorphisms, particularly at the enzymatic level when it comes to drug metabolism, come to mind that could be responsible for the unique way you react to these things. Might be something for you to look into. 

Beyond that, you also have to consider the fact that this is a pretty dangerous path on the way to mental masturbation valley 
In other words, even if you do figure out certain genetic components that differentiate you from others, so what? It's going to have no influence on nutrition/training approach and little on drug protocols. Something to keep in mind.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 1, 2016)

Bc you said you tend to respond for a few weeks in the beginning to most drugs and you respond well to test leads me to believe it's psychosomatic.


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## metsfan4life (Dec 1, 2016)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Certain genetic polymorphisms, particularly at the enzymatic level when it comes to drug metabolism, come to mind that could be responsible for the unique way you react to these things. Might be something for you to look into.
> 
> Beyond that, you also have to consider the fact that this is a pretty dangerous path on the way to mental masturbation valley
> In other words, even if you do figure out certain genetic components that differentiate you from others, so what? It's going to have no influence on nutrition/training approach and little on drug protocols. Something to keep in mind.



Good point. Yeah its mainly me just wanting to see what the right balance of levels are that work.  
Completely agree on the last statement. I didnt mean solely just finding the balance of the hormones, I meant that in association with a diet/train program. While these were both being put to people with that expertise, the hormone balance was still off. 



DocDePanda187123 said:


> Bc you said you tend to respond for a few weeks in the beginning to most drugs and you respond well to test leads me to believe it's psychosomatic.




Sorry, that may have been put the wrong way. What I mean is not necessarily that. What I notice in response to the chemicals is really only related to test increase, then after that its all normal. Its mainly with prop, I feel the prop working and libido increase. as far as after a few weeks, there is really nothing else to "notice". as far as other compounds, tren/adrol/winstrol/clen/dbol/var/deca...there is nothing that you would associate to anything: water retention, strength, leanness, drive, explosiveness, etc.  Again, may have typed earlier one incorrect in what I meant. I get the 1st few weeks of the Test increase, that immediate increase feeling but other items does not present themselves in that manner and have no sides form them. Blood levels confirm that the items in the cycle list are in the body, however the sides and positives are not. Let me put this out there, I experience NO atrophy at all while running anything, 500mg test up to 1500mg test...balls stay the same.


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## metsfan4life (Dec 1, 2016)

and Doc... yes I got results from Tren the 1st time I ever took it for about 6weeks. that has only been the time that I noticed anything. I took another 12wk cycle of it and didnt notice anything at all, from day 1.


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## metsfan4life (Dec 1, 2016)

Blood pressure at Dr this morning: 108/60. Pretty good for being tren.

Was at Dr for issue with severely lymph node...but no idea what caused, never happened before


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## metsfan4life (Dec 1, 2016)

potential for my receptors to only handle Test or simply not be very responsive in general?

Mind you, 1000mg of Tren with a proper training and diet... started at 13% and ended at 12 after 16wks


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 2, 2016)

metsfan4life said:


> potential for my receptors to only handle Test or simply not be very responsive in general?
> 
> Mind you, 1000mg of Tren with a proper training and diet... started at 13% and ended at 12 after 16wks



That's not really possible. All AAS attaches to the androgen receptor and exert their effects as well as some that are not dependent upon the androgen receptor. If one compound works they all should but don't take that to mean they'll all work the same for you as everyone else. The only option I see is something could be an AR antagonist but you didn't lost any medication that acts as one.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 2, 2016)

metsfan4life said:


> Good point. Yeah its mainly me just wanting to see what the right balance of levels are that work.
> Completely agree on the last statement. I didnt mean solely just finding the balance of the hormones, I meant that in association with a diet/train program. While these were both being put to people with that expertise, the hormone balance was still off.
> 
> 
> ...



Gauging efficacy by sides is not the way to go about it. I got almost zero side effects from a DNP dose most here wouldn't ever dream of touching. My balls don't shrink much if at all either and not everyone's will.


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## metsfan4life (Dec 2, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> That's not really possible. All AAS attaches to the androgen receptor and exert their effects as well as some that are not dependent upon the androgen receptor. If one compound works they all should but don't take that to mean they'll all work the same for you as everyone else. The only option I see is something could be an AR antagonist but you didn't lost any medication that acts as one.



Yeah I have wondered for a while that potentially my receptors are not as strong and absorbing. 



DocDePanda187123 said:


> Gauging efficacy by sides is not the way to go about it. I got almost zero side effects from a DNP dose most here wouldn't ever dream of touching. My balls don't shrink much if at all either and not everyone's will.



True, I just simply meant as in the good or the bad of the drugs at hand. I did get the sides from DNP as with the 1st dose, 250 for a few days, 500 for 10 and then 750 till I ran out. Sweats were bad if I was moving around, if I stayed sitting wasnt too bad. But I get its great to not see the bad sides but I would think that if there wasnt anything missing chemically, then the positives would appear


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## RISE (Dec 2, 2016)

I'll second what doc says, you can't gauge what you're taking by side effects.  EVERYONE Will react differently to another with every substance they take.  Same with medications.  

Personally it doesn't matter what I take, tren, mast, tbol, deca, npp, test, etc I always get the same sides.  Testicle shrinkage and gyno if I don't take my ai's.  That's it.  Hell I got my BP done the other week and it was 120/40 and that's on 750mg test e and 400mg of tren every wk with 50 mg tbol everday.  Only with eq and dbol did I feel any different sides.  Higher BP with eq and felt like total shit while on dbol.

I'll also add that it doesn't matter if I take a substance like tren or deca. My water weight doesn't increase anymore significantly when on one or the other.  May have to do with genetics or may have to do with the fact that my diet is pretty much identical day to day.  I don't gain anymore mass when on tren than let's say mast.  In fact in turns of gains, to me they are equals.  

Everyone is also going to react differently to hormones depending on their genetics.  I call them hyper or hypo responders.  You can give 10 people all the same substances and some are going to respond better than others.  Has nothing more to do with anything other than their genetic response.


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## RISE (Dec 2, 2016)

Funny little story, the most drastic change I ever got from any cycle was one I took about 3 years back and it wasn't during the cycle it was (I think) the second day of starting pct.  I felt incredibly pumped up that day, in fact when I put on my work uniform it felt like it had shrunk a complete size.  I walked into work that day and everyone just looked at me like "wtf???".  Lol.  Had one guy ask if I was on gear.  Even had customers make remarks.  My only conclusion that it was a spike in water weight which is the only thing that can drastically change that quick.  Only time that happened though in my 8 years of use.


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## Mind2muscle (Dec 3, 2016)

How does your body respond to your prescribed meds....insulin and synthroid?  Does the insulin keep your glucose levels within the normal range and is the synthroid controlling your hypothyroidism successfully?


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## ThePhantom (Dec 3, 2016)

I am a noob herebut I have had similar results. I doubled my gear for a cycle same stuff test/eq.  My buddy told me I needed to switch up to twice a week vs once.  I didn't see any changes in growth or sides. Bloodwork was normal despite rbc count.  Read the book Anabolics by William Llewellyn. He bacially stated it's all about your genetics and your receptors.  Just bc you take 2x you won't always get 2x results.  Just and thought.


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## Cobra Strike (Dec 3, 2016)

I can attest that docs balls, in fact, do not shrink.

I've taken 2g of tren a week for 14 months. Didn't change my gains at all but it did wreak havoc on my liver. The first cycle is always going to have the best result so you cant base all cycles off of that first one...its never the same. I dont get shit for sides either on anything and I use to question whether the gear was good or not. Over the years I've learned that it's just a slow process working towards your goals. If you are doing everything right in both the kitchen and the gym you should rarely ever get a dramatic result out of any of it. I know now the gear I take is working just like it should  because I'm much further along in my training than I would be if I was natty. No sides is a good thing! 

Your inconsistency could also play a part here. Diets don't change that often and all your gains are based on your diet. Even if you ate exactly what your suppose to everyday it would take a while to get anywhere pro level..unless you have sick genetics which most of us don't. No one should ever depend on a supplement for progress. Depend on proper nutrition...thats what will change you. 

To me it sounds more like it's in your head which alot of us struggle with as well lol


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## glycomann (Dec 3, 2016)

metsfan4life said:


> Ok so I've talked to several on the board, mainly thru PMs, about this over the past couple of years off and on. Figured Id see if anyone might have any insight on this. It appears that my body metabolizes the hormones or simply rejects them. POB would be a good comment on this as I have talked to him probably more than anyone on this.
> 
> LET ME MIND YOU, I AM TYPE 1 DIABETIC. Not sure how much this will play a roll but I know there are a ton of Type1s that cycle.
> 
> ...


Your bloodwork says you are>1500 ng/dL I assume so the drugs are in there. It does sound like you are a fast metabolizer. Sort of like Russians and vodka. I was drinking with a Russian friend once and we were doing shots and, using a bretholyzer,  everyone at the table had high alcohol levels except the Russian.  he never went over 0.05.  There are people with very efficient detoxifying metabolism.  the other thing is, what is your training?  I haven't seen your workouts.  Intensity is a huge key in this.  If the training is hardcore and your diet is high in protein and you are getting rest and BS female drama is minimal then you should make gains unless you have other issues likemetabolic issues or poor receptor response etc.  In that case then probably forget AAS.

Personally I am on the other side of the curve.  At 100 mg/w of TRT test cypionate I am at 900 ng/dL. I have literally made gains on 15 mg/w of Winstrol 25 years ago when I was young.  On the bad side, I get over 1000 mg/w and I get toxic. I guess I am a cheap date.


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## Cobra Strike (Dec 3, 2016)

glycomann said:


> Your bloodwork says you are>1500 ng/dL I assume so the drugs are in there. It does sound like you are a fast metabolizer. Sort of like Russians and vodka. I was drinking with a Russian friend once and we were doing shots and, using a bretholyzer,  everyone at the table had high alcohol levels except the Russian.  he never went over 0.05.  There are people with very efficient detoxifying metabolism.  the other thing is, what is your training?  I haven't seen your workouts.  Intensity is a huge key in this.  If the training is hardcore and your diet is high in protein and you are getting rest and BS female drama is minimal then you should make gains unless you have other issues likemetabolic issues or poor receptor response etc.  In that case then probably forget AAS.
> 
> Personally I am on the other side of the curve.  At 100 mg/w of TRT test cypionate I am at 900 ng/dL. I have literally made gains on 15 mg/w of Winstrol 25 years ago when I was young.  On the bad side, I get over 1000 mg/w and I get toxic. I guess I am a cheap date.



The Russian could also have a higher tolerance. Just because his ba level was lower doesn't necessarily mean he metabolizes faster...could simply mean he's a more experienced drinker. Alcoholics have this same issue. Takes alot more for them then the rest of us.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 3, 2016)

Cobra Strike said:


> I can attest that docs balls, in fact, do not shrink.
> 
> I've taken 2g of tren a week for 14 months. Didn't change my gains at all but it did wreak havoc on my liver. The first cycle is always going to have the best result so you cant base all cycles off of that first one...its never the same. I dont get shit for sides either on anything and I use to question whether the gear was good or not. Over the years I've learned that it's just a slow process working towards your goals. If you are doing everything right in both the kitchen and the gym you should rarely ever get a dramatic result out of any of it. I know now the gear I take is working just like it should  because I'm much further along in my training than I would be if I was natty. No sides is a good thing!
> 
> ...



Why are you giving out trade secrets about my balls. This smells like insider trading Cobra.


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## Cobra Strike (Dec 3, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Why are you giving out trade secrets about my balls. This smells like insider trading Cobra.



"something so glorious shall be shared with the world, not selfishly kept for ones own pleasure"

- Aristotle


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## Cobra Strike (Dec 3, 2016)

ps...Im not sure if that is a famous quote or not but if not it should be

especially speaking in the context of docs balls


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## RISE (Dec 3, 2016)

I don't believe these "secrets".  We need visual proof.  Post your nuts doc!


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## metsfan4life (Dec 4, 2016)

RISE said:


> I'll second what doc says, you can't gauge what you're taking by side effects.  EVERYONE Will react differently to another with every substance they take.  Same with medications.
> 
> Personally it doesn't matter what I take, tren, mast, tbol, deca, npp, test, etc I always get the same sides.  Testicle shrinkage and gyno if I don't take my ai's.  That's it.  Hell I got my BP done the other week and it was 120/40 and that's on 750mg test e and 400mg of tren every wk with 50 mg tbol everday.  Only with eq and dbol did I feel any different sides.  Higher BP with eq and felt like total shit while on dbol.
> 
> ...




Great write up, greatly appreciate it. I think some genetics are a part of it. Like below someone said about mast metabolizing, it does seem like it takes a lot of things to make it tick. Ive done this with meds as well, it takes 3-4x normal doses of things to get the desired "effect".  Id say hypo would be. thanks!



Mind2muscle said:


> How does your body respond to your prescribed meds....insulin and synthroid?  Does the insulin keep your glucose levels within the normal range and is the synthroid controlling your hypothyroidism successfully?



My doc and i have long bout about this from time to time  b/c its really odd. there are days that my insulin simply does not want to respond. I can be at 60 in the morning, and literally eat nothing but eggs and it will be over 400 within an hr. I can then take 5iu of insulin and tank or I can take 5iu and it does nothing. I have taken 40iu in a single dose before and my sugar dropped none at all. 

as for the thyroid, it does keep it stable 



Cobra Strike said:


> I can attest that docs balls, in fact, do not shrink.
> 
> I've taken 2g of tren a week for 14 months. Didn't change my gains at all but it did wreak havoc on my liver. The first cycle is always going to have the best result so you cant base all cycles off of that first one...its never the same. I dont get shit for sides either on anything and I use to question whether the gear was good or not. Over the years I've learned that it's just a slow process working towards your goals. If you are doing everything right in both the kitchen and the gym you should rarely ever get a dramatic result out of any of it. I know now the gear I take is working just like it should  because I'm much further along in my training than I would be if I was natty. No sides is a good thing!
> 
> ...



haha you and me have talked about this from time to time about the common things.  a lot in my life is the same, primarily b/c im a creature of habit and dont like change...makes it easier.


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## glycomann (Dec 4, 2016)

Cobra Strike said:


> The Russian could also have a higher tolerance. Just because his ba level was lower doesn't necessarily mean he metabolizes faster...could simply mean he's a more experienced drinker. Alcoholics have this same issue. Takes alot more for them then the rest of us.



Could be but Russians especially soldiers have used alcohol to warm in the cold for many centuries. I've partied with a lot of Russians.  Have some salty fish and vodka with your Russian friends and then go play water polo after most of the fish and vodka is gone and then hell me that Russians don't have higher tolerance... or could just be my bunch of groups of Russian friends I've known.


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