# Fortitude training



## RiR0 (Jan 2, 2022)

Any of you guys have any experience with Scott Stevensons fortitude training? 
I’m pretty beat up so I decided to give it a shot. I started this week. It seems like a good way for older guys or those with a lot of wear and tear to still train damn hard and progress.
What are your thoughts and how long did you run it? I’m liking it a lot so far but I’m only in my first week.


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## Send0 (Jan 2, 2022)

Is this the program you are talking about?









						Fortitude Training | The Ultimate Guide!
					

Are you curious about Fortitude Training? Do you wonder how to use Dr. Scott Stevenson's new bodybuilding program to build size and strength? Then you've come to the right place. In this comprehensive guide, I




					revolutionaryprogramdesign.com
				




I know it's only been a week, but how are you liking it in terms of joint stress/recovery?

I'm looking for a program that will let me lift while minimizing stress on my A/C joint, while I work to rehab it and create more space in the joint via PT.

My current program is clearly too much to handle lifting and the physical therapy at the same time. 😢


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## CJ (Jan 2, 2022)

I just finished reading the book. Debating whether to give it a run or not.


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## RiR0 (Jan 2, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Is this the program you are talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s fun and it’s hard. But so far my knees and shoulders feel good. Im keeping a close eye on recovery because in a deficit. 
It took a lot of reading to really grasp it before I started but when you actually figure it out it’s pretty easy to setup. 
I did the lower body muscle rounds today, day 3 tier one and I’m blasted honestly but not in a bad way. I’ve also had to up my calories because my weight started dropping too fast. There’s still somethings I’m sure I’ll figure out more and correct as I get more experience with the routine. 
It’s easy to auto regulate each body part and really make it your own. 
I know Scott Stevenson recommended against starting it on a cut but I’m hard headed. 
Normally hack squats start to aggravate my knees but I decided to use them for my thigh muscle round movement today and there was no pain even going to total failure where I bottomed out and couldnt push the weight back up. 
I’ve been able to try a few new movements which was a nice change of pace. I’ll have to see how it goes as fatigue accumulates throughout the weeks.


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## RiR0 (Jan 2, 2022)

CJ275 said:


> I just finished reading the book. Debating whether to give it a run or not.


What did you think? Was any of it confusing to you? I’ve had it for a while and read through it several times but it wasn’t until recently that it really clicked for me.


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## CJ (Jan 2, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> What did you think? Was any of it confusing to you? I’ve had it for a while and read through it several times but it wasn’t until recently that it really clicked for me.


No, it wasn't confusing, but I had heard SS and others speak about it many times prior. The book was just filling in the gaps.


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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 3, 2022)

Been using it on and off for years. As with DC you have to make sure you are truly pushing to failure on your loading days. Also I found you really have to push the calories on the higher tiers as the frequency is high. Scott is a genius the way he designed the intensive cruise into the program. Totally worth the 20 dollars and he directly answers your questions on his forum. 

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk


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## CJ (Jan 3, 2022)

Yeah, forgot about that. You buy the book, you have LIFETIME access to his private forum.


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## MaxxPursuit (Jan 3, 2022)

Awesome program. I've rotated FT and DC training for many years now and it's a solid protocol. The book was great - I read it a couple times over. Starting out, I'd probably take it slower with the basic Tier 1 or 2 and figure out how your body responds/recovers before progressing up.


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## RiR0 (Jan 3, 2022)

bigdaddysmoothdc said:


> Been using it on and off for years. As with DC you have to make sure you are truly pushing to failure on your loading days. Also I found you really have to push the calories on the higher tiers as the frequency is high. Scott is a genius the way he designed the intensive cruise into the program. Totally worth the 20 dollars and he directly answers your questions on his forum.
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk


DC is actually the majority of how I’ve trained.  I’ve always trained every working set to failure and focused on progressive over load it’s just how I’m programmed. I’ve never gotten anything out of high volume sub failure training. I bought the book a few years ago and it’s worth was more than he charges. Scott is one of the few “evidence based” guys who understands the balance between what is supported by studies and what works in the real world.


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## RiR0 (Jan 3, 2022)

MaxxPursuit said:


> Awesome program. I've rotated FT and DC training for many years now and it's a solid protocol. The book was great - I read it a couple times over. Starting out, I'd probably take it slower with the basic Tier 1 or 2 and figure out how your body responds/recovers before progressing up.


I’m gonna stick to tier one fully for atleast  the first blast or 2 to really iron everything out and make sure I really get a feel solid understanding of it and how my body responds.


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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 3, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’m gonna stick to tier one fully for atleast the first blast or 2 to really iron everything out and make sure I really get a feel solid understanding of it and how my body responds.


Great idea. Have fun muscle round days

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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 3, 2022)

Also you should check out his podcasts called muscle minds A lot of knowledge. 


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## Fvckinashman (Jan 3, 2022)

I ran it a long time ago, it's worth the shot... you will enjoy it

Now I prefer DC-style with some minor tweaks but FT is gold


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## RiR0 (Jan 3, 2022)

Seems like the day after each leg day this week all I wanted to do was nap and eat. Im extremely wiped out. Had the 3rd leg workout yesterday and that’s pretty all I’ve done today, again. I’ll get in my upper MR later today. As of now I’m exhausted. It’s gonna be something I’ll have to get used to.


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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 3, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Seems like the day after each leg day this week all I wanted to do was nap and eat. Im extremely wiped out. Had the 3rd leg workout yesterday and that’s pretty all I’ve done today, again. I’ll get in my upper MR later today. As of now I’m exhausted. It’s gonna be something I’ll have to get used to.


Are you taking a day off in between sessions? Might be worth a try if your not. Your body will adjust, last blast I did the turbo tier 3 and I was overreaching are the end. As long as food is high and effort is there you will make great gains. 

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## CJ (Jan 3, 2022)

All you suns'a'bitches have me wanting to run it now! 🤣


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## RiR0 (Jan 4, 2022)

bigdaddysmoothdc said:


> Are you taking a day off in between sessions? Might be worth a try if your not. Your body will adjust, last blast I did the turbo tier 3 and I was overreaching are the end. As long as food is high and effort is there you will make great gains.
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk


I’m running it as written. Lower loading/upper pump,day off, upper loading/lower pump, day off, lower mr/pump, upper mr, day off. 
I’m in a deficit but I’m gonna push my calories higher closer to around maintenance for a while for recovery. 
I’m just glad I didn’t jump into tier 2 or 3 off the rip. 
I did the cable scoop flies for chest muscle rounds and those are fucking awesome.


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## RiR0 (Jan 4, 2022)

CJ275 said:


> All you suns'a'bitches have me wanting to run it now! 🤣


Do it!!!! We can start a FT support group 😂


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## Test_subject (Jan 4, 2022)

The muscle round sets are absolute misery if you’re doing them properly.

I ran it for a few months a few years back. The wear and tear wasn’t too bad because I rotated exercises like with DC training.

I liked it, but I didn’t really see it as an improvement over a typical upper/lower split to be honest.  It’s a fun and effective program — just not my thing.


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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’m running it as written. Lower loading/upper pump,day off, upper loading/lower pump, day off, lower mr/pump, upper mr, day off.
> I’m in a deficit but I’m gonna push my calories higher closer to around maintenance for a while for recovery.
> I’m just glad I didn’t jump into tier 2 or 3 off the rip.
> I did the cable scoop flies for chest muscle rounds and those are fucking awesome.


I found it great on a cut as I was able to drop bf with no cardio. 

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## RiR0 (Jan 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> The muscle round sets are absolute misery if you’re doing them properly.
> 
> I ran it for a few months a few years back. The wear and tear wasn’t too bad because I rotated exercises like with DC training.
> 
> I liked it, but I didn’t really see it as an improvement over a typical upper/lower split to be honest.


Do you have the book? You’re supposed rotate the exercises.
Hack squat muscle rounds were fucking torture yesterday


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## Test_subject (Jan 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Do you have the book? You’re supposed rotate the exercises.


Nope. I just skimmed over it online and went for it.

That doesn’t surprise me since he worked closely with Dante.

Hack squat muscle rounds are torture.  Full ROM, heavy weight… totally cooked by the end.


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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> The muscle round sets are absolute misery if you’re doing them properly.
> 
> I ran it for a few months a few years back. The wear and tear wasn’t too bad because I rotated exercises like with DC training.
> 
> I liked it, but I didn’t really see it as an improvement over a typical upper/lower split to be honest. It’s a fun and effective program — just not my thing.


Per Scott I was doing dead stop Smith rows as a muscle round and that shut was brutal lol. I can only imagine hacks as a muscle round

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## RiR0 (Jan 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Nope. I just skimmed over it online and went for it.
> 
> That doesn’t surprise me since he worked closely with Dante.
> 
> Hack squat muscle rounds are torture.  Full ROM, heavy weight… totally cooked by the end.


There’s a lot of info in the book that is needed to really get the most out of it. If you ever do give it another shot you really need to get it and read through it to truly utilize the program.
It’s full body 2x per week and an lower day and an upper day. Where you hit everything 3x in 4 days.


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## Test_subject (Jan 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> There’s a lot of info in the book that is needed to really get the most out of it. If you ever do give it another shot you really need to get it and read through it to truly utilize the program.
> It’s full body 2x per week and an lower day and an upper day. Where you hit everything 3x in 4 days.


Yeah I just ran the split. I didn’t get into all the tiers and other fine details of the program.  What I should have said is that I ran the split and it wasn’t much of an improvement over U/L.

Maybe one of these days I’ll run it as specified and see if I have better results.  Right now I’m doing the DC split (upper then lower with biceps and forearms) but 4 days a week and without all of the rest pause stuff and I moved deadlifts to lower day. Mostly straight sets with some drop sets and partials/beyond failure stuff


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## Test_subject (Jan 4, 2022)

bigdaddysmoothdc said:


> Per Scott I was doing dead stop Smith rows as a muscle round and that shut was brutal lol. I can only imagine hacks as a muscle round
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk


Hack squats with those super short rests are absolutely vicious. Way worse than the DC widow maker sets.


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## RiR0 (Jan 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Yeah I just ran the split. I didn’t get into all the tiers and other fine details of the program.  What I should have said is that I ran the split and it wasn’t much of an improvement over U/L.
> 
> Maybe one of these days I’ll run it as specified and see if I have better results.  Right now I’m doing the DC split (upper then lower with biceps and forearms) but 4 days a week and without all of the rest pause stuff and I moved deadlifts to lower day. Mostly straight sets with some drop sets and partials/beyond failure stuff


Market it and call it TS training. I’d buy the e book. I buy just about every diet or training related ebook or book that sounds half way interesting


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## CJ (Jan 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Do it!!!! We can start a FT support group 😂


I wouldn't be able to run it exactly as written, specifically the supersets. I wouldn't be able to claim 2-3 pieces of equipment at every workout.


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## wotmeworry (Jan 4, 2022)

I am curious about this programme and impressed by Scott Stevenson's posts/interviews etc, so will give Fortitude Training a go for a meso or two.


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## RiR0 (Jan 14, 2022)

So I’m in week 3 I’ve had to up my calories to 2800 on top of eating whatever I can fit in my stomach every 3 days to keep my weight from dropping and  to ensure recovery.

It’s hard and brutal but it’s also fun. I get a chance to try out new exercises and movements and different techniques often. I’ve found some machines and exercises that I’ve never used that have become my favorites. 
The cable scoop flies, single arm free motion cable press and Icarian pec Dec literally had my chest cramping and twitching every time I moved my arms. I didn’t feel them at all in my delts. 
Knees, lower back and shoulders have given me no issues which is a first time in years. 
My endurance has improved dramatically without any cardio. It’s definitely transferred over into the bedroom. 
I’ve still got around 3-4 weeks left before my cruise and then I’ll up it to tier 2.


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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So I’m in week 3 I’ve had to up my calories to 2800 on top of eating whatever I can fit in my stomach every 3 days to keep my weight from dropping and to ensure recovery.
> 
> It’s hard and brutal but it’s also fun. I get a chance to try out new exercises and movements and different techniques often. I’ve found some machines and exercises that I’ve never used that have become my favorites.
> The cable scoop flies, single arm free motion cable press and Icarian pec Dec literally had my chest cramping and twitching every time I moved my arms. I didn’t feel them at all in my delts.
> ...


That's what I had to do too. I had to end up, at 4000 cals a day to keep gaining especially the higher tiers. 

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## wotmeworry (Jan 14, 2022)

Have only just calibrated weights for muscle and pump sets, but so far I like the increased frequency and the way I feel after more full body workouts with FT.  Still not getting the most out of pump sets though, I think.


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## RiR0 (Jan 14, 2022)

wotmeworry said:


> Have only just calibrated weights for muscle and pump sets, but so far I like the increased frequency and the way I feel after more full body workouts with FT.  Still not getting the most out of pump sets though, I think.


Do you have the book?


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## wotmeworry (Jan 14, 2022)

Yep, and I get the intent, I just need to get a feel for the pump sets.  Will try lighter and longer sets.

I used to do supersets of biceps and triceps and could get a real pump when I ran them back to back until blown.  Aiming for that feeling again I guess.


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## bigdaddysmoothdc (Jan 15, 2022)

wotmeworry said:


> Yep, and I get the intent, I just need to get a feel for the pump sets. Will try lighter and longer sets.
> 
> I used to do supersets of biceps and triceps and could get a real pump when I ran them back to back until blown. Aiming for that feeling again I guess.


Did you try the 5s in the hole? That is pretty brutal on the pump sets. High reps work well also on these. If you go on the ft forum Scott will answer all your questions. 

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## wotmeworry (Jan 15, 2022)

bigdaddysmoothdc said:


> Did you try the 5s in the hole? That is pretty brutal on the pump sets. High reps work well also on these. If you go on the ft forum Scott will answer all your questions.
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk


OK, 5s in the hole next pump set it is.


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## CJ (Jan 15, 2022)

wotmeworry said:


> OK, 5s in the hole next pump set it is.


Good luck. I'll pray for your soul. 😳


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## Rot-Iron66 (Jan 15, 2022)

I like Scott and it looks interesting, but lifting/training does not need to be this complicated.
The hard work the guys did in the 70's built amazing bodies on basic splits, on way less drugs, way less caloric intake, but just plain hard work.  So hard work and dedication and keeping with a program is what works.

All programs work, especially the ones you enjoy the most, you will bust ass on them.
These modern guys need stuff to sell so they they write up "kick-ass" programs, and that's OK of course.
If you enjoy it, have at it.

When noobs come in they are always looking for the best programs, the latest fad, etc.
Something like this is over-kill. (I get it, you guys are advanced and like to try new things).

I'm fine w/ all of these newer programs (well DC isn't new anymore).
Its just funny when I hear people (not you guys) shitting on "bro-split" like its something bad.

I think it worked pretty well for folks like Lee Haney, Bertil Fox, Arnold, Waller, Franco, etc...

Again, not dissing this stuff, I love listening to Scott on the Podcasts, very smart guy.
Nice guy...


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## wotmeworry (Jan 15, 2022)

Rot-Iron66 said:


> I like Scott and it looks interesting, but lifting/training does not need to be this complicated.
> The hard work the guys did in the 70's built amazing bodies on basic splits, on way less drugs, way less caloric intake, but just plain hard work.  So hard work and dedication and keeping with a program is what works.
> 
> All programs work, especially the ones you enjoy the most, you will bust ass on them.
> ...


I know what you mean, I get the feeling that a lot of guys put more energy into reading about training than lifting.

My interest in FT was prompted by Scott's promotion of it as a better programme for older guys to allow for wear and tear as well as poorer recovery.  Frequency and intensity over volume, supported by a structured mix of rep ranges.  Definitely for more advanced lifters, I think, to make the right exercise selections and auto-regulate in what is a very flexible programme.

Seems complicated when you read about it, but easy enough when you do it.  The biggest challenge I find is moving across more machines/racks in each workout (I hate waiting for machines).


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## RiR0 (Jan 16, 2022)

wotmeworry said:


> OK, 5s in the hole next pump set it is.


You inspired so I did 5s in the hole on leg pump today.
I did swing squats supersetted with sissy squats. That was fucking terrible


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## wotmeworry (Jan 16, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You inspired so I did 5s in the hole on leg pump today.
> I did swing squats supersetted with sissy squats. That was fucking terrible


Hmmm ... I am well and truly under-doing my pump sets, it seems.  Load sets for legs and pump for upper body tomorrow, so I'll crack on.  Loving muscle sets, though.


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## RiR0 (Jan 19, 2022)

wotmeworry said:


> Hmmm ... I am well and truly under-doing my pump sets, it seems.  Load sets for legs and pump for upper body tomorrow, so I'll crack on.  Loving muscle sets, though.


My pump sets burn and are excruciating pain. 
You really want to push them.
I had pump sets for quads and hats after mr fit thighs tonight and my quads were twitching so bad I could barely stand up. 

Can you help me out with some ideas for upper muscle round exercises?


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## wotmeworry (Jan 19, 2022)

I am still exploring exercises.  Last round I did Nautilus High Row, hex bar bent over rows (prefer Nautilus chest-supported row to let me go heavier but that wasn't free), Smith Machine incline press, barbell bench press (prefer dumbbell but shoulders a bit dodgy and I avoided throwing dumbbells into position), Nautilus seated shoulder press, cable lateral raises. dumbbell skull-crushers.  Felt done-in, but good.

Others I liked for MR: unilateral cable pull-ins, cable front delt extensions (palm up, like an uppercut), machine reverse flyes, scapular pull-ins (twin cable).


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## RiR0 (Jan 19, 2022)

wotmeworry said:


> I am still exploring exercises.  Last round I did Nautilus High Row, hex bar bent over rows (prefer Nautilus chest-supported row to let me go heavier but that wasn't free), Smith Machine incline press, barbell bench press (prefer dumbbell but shoulders a bit dodgy and I avoided throwing dumbbells into position), Nautilus seated shoulder press, cable lateral raises. dumbbell skull-crushers.  Felt done-in, but good.
> 
> Others I liked for MR: unilateral cable pull-ins, cable front delt extensions (palm up, like an uppercut), machine reverse flyes, scapular pull-ins (twin cable).


There’s just so much you do with fortitude. It’s like if DC training and Mt Dog training had a baby lol


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## RiR0 (Jan 19, 2022)

Im breaking it up into eod instead of the last 2 back to back. 
Im also going to move to tier 2 next week for the next 2-3 weeks.


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## wotmeworry (Jan 20, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Im breaking it up into eod instead of the last 2 back to back.
> Im also going to move to tier 2 next week for the next 2-3 weeks.


Just completed a Day 2 (Upper Load) session.  I have settled into a looser adherence to tiers, with number of sets adjusted based on how I feel.  I am broadly on tier 2 but add a set when I feel good (and next machine etc is not free), or drop down to one set if flagging (less often).  Still happy with FT and sensing progress.


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## pcgken (Sep 5, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Seems like the day after each leg day this week all I wanted to do was nap and eat. Im extremely wiped out. Had the 3rd leg workout yesterday and that’s pretty all I’ve done today, again. I’ll get in my upper MR later today. As of now I’m exhausted. It’s gonna be something I’ll have to get used to.


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## Butch_C (Sep 5, 2022)




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## pcgken (Sep 6, 2022)

I've been using FT on and off for two years.  I juggle Tier 2 with Tier 3, but at age 50, I am feeling my recovery is just not quite the same. I am going to start trying eod as well and see if I have a little more energy in my workouts.


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## PZT (Sep 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Any of you guys have any experience with Scott Stevensons fortitude training?
> I’m pretty beat up so I decided to give it a shot. I started this week. It seems like a good way for older guys or those with a lot of wear and tear to still train damn hard and progress.
> What are your thoughts and how long did you run it? I’m liking it a lot so far but I’m only in my first week.


Threw in some muscle rounds before but never done the program


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