# Restarting Training - Your Thoughts?



## lseactuary (Jun 19, 2014)

Was with a PT, went on a cycle, didn't get the results I was after. Finished my exams and want to get back into training (been off for 2-3 months). 
Have devised a new cycle/diet/exercise plan I intend on following. Joined a very nice gym that is not very busy so I will always have access to equipment and want to start asap. Can I get your thoughts on this. 

Please download the file from this link: https://www.sendspace.com/file/1vfsom

It includes:
1. New diet x2 pics - any ideas on what to do for lunch? Protein cookie or something? 
2. What I am aiming for x2 pics
3. Previous cycle pics attached here (me at different weights when on gear) - all labeled as 1/2/3/4/5 with weights 

Proposed:

1. Exercise plan: http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wo...t-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html
4 days a week plan. See the table titled Wendler's 5/3/1 Mesocycle
Question - should I do the Strength Builder Assistance Work or Bodybuilder Assistance Work? 
2. Cycle: Tri Tren 150mg/ml, Mast 100mg/ml - 1ml each (one on Monday, one on Thursday) for 10 weeks, both 'Delta' brand. Or I'm thinking test ethan? Really not sure about this part. 

My Stats: 24yo, 6'0 tall, 80kg (bulked to 90kg last time, 75kg pre any gym).


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## lseactuary (Jun 19, 2014)

*Cycle above is wrong. I pasted the wrong thing. 
This is the cycle: Inject Test Ethan 500mg for 12 weeks (1ml per week). Oral D-bol for 6 weeks at 50mg taken everyday.


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## Badkid 93 (Jun 20, 2014)

Why are you cycling when you dont even have a frequent workout schedule down already..... you should not be touching gear. Unless im reading wrong doesnt seem like you have been training that long anyways..... seems like you might be using gear as a mental crutch to push yourself into the gym, in which case is just freaking stupid and you shouldnt be playing with your hormones like that. If i am reading into your story incorrectly please let me know. i know i may seem like a jackass but it just irritates that hell out of me when i see guys playing with hormones and they have hardly been training for a year with a good knowledge of exercise and there own body. Diet.Experience > Any hormones.


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 20, 2014)

Yea u need to get back into the gym consistently for a good year at least before running anything in my opinion. Don't be one of those guys who only trains when they are on gear.


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## lseactuary (Jun 20, 2014)

Apologies for being unclear. I was training naturally for just under 2 years no gear. I was making very little progress therefore got a PT and did grow but I rushed things and didn't build enough mass before cutting (and hence the skinny look again after the cut cycle). I still trained naturally - just took a month ish off for exams but otherwise I'm still training naturally.

Gear aside how's the diet and exercise plan? I use a very similar one to the one outlined above hence curious.


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## lseactuary (Jun 22, 2014)

Anyone have some thoughts to share please?


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## woodswise (Jun 23, 2014)

Bro you're making this too hard for us (links we have to click on, charts to analyze, etc.).  If you want advice, post up the workouts and diet on here it won't take too much to do that, and you'll save us having to click through on an unknown and therefore risky link.

Also, I agree with the advice on AAS.  You need to learn how to train and eat before you start AAS.  You have several good years of natural training ahead of you where you can gain 25 to 30 kg of good solid muscle before you ever need to start thinking of AAS.

Also, AAS will mess up your hormonal system, can give you high blood pressure, mess with your cholesterol, and can lead to heart disease and kidney disease.  Do you really want to mess with AAS before you have to?  Do you really want to mess with them without knowing all those risks?

You have a lot of learning to do before you ever do another cycle of AAS.


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## JAXNY (Jun 24, 2014)

woodswise said:


> Bro you're making this too hard for us (links we have to click on, charts to analyze, etc.).  If you want advice, post up the workouts and diet on here it won't take too much to do that, and you'll save us having to click through on an unknown and therefore risky link.
> 
> Also, I agree with the advice on AAS.  You need to learn how to train and eat before you start AAS.  You have several good years of natural training ahead of you where you can gain 25 to 30 kg of good solid muscle before you ever need to start thinking of AAS.
> 
> ...



I agree. Im not clicking on those photo links. if you want our help figure out how to post what you have on here.


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## deejeff442 (Jun 24, 2014)

Why do people want to be a bodybuilder .workout for a year or 2 then want to cut and get lean? Hell I have been in bulking for 20 years.i have  ever gotten fat.i lose weight in the summer just being outside.why do people think aas will blow up muscles 20 pounds in 2 months? If it did we could all put on 50 pounds a year and be 300 pounds in a few years.i am happy to put on 3 pounds a month .


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 24, 2014)

deejeff442 said:


> Why do people want to be a bodybuilder .workout for a year or 2 then want to cut and get lean? Hell I have been in bulking for 20 years.i have  ever gotten fat.i lose weight in the summer just being outside.why do people think aas will blow up muscles 20 pounds in 2 months? If it did we could all put on 50 pounds a year and be 300 pounds in a few years.i am happy to put on 3 pounds a month .



Good point. The endless bulking then cutting halts a lot of growth potential.

As for why? My best guess seeing as how it's done around the spring and summer is just about being outside without a shirt on and looking shredded.  Not a great reason IMO.


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## lseactuary (Jun 24, 2014)

Apologies for the links. Will make a proper post again tomorrow.


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## lseactuary (Jun 24, 2014)

Proposed Diet:

Total: 3103 calories, 284g carb, 290g protein, 81g fat. 

Breakfast
Milk 500ml, Bran Flakes 50g, Liquid Egg white 500ml, NAC tablet (liver support) (77g protein total) 

During Workout
Scivation Xtend BCAA drink

After Workout
ProElite Mass Gainer (64g protein) 

Lunch
Liquid Egg White 500ml (56g protein) 

Dinner
Brown Pasta 200g, Sauce 150g, Mild Cheese 50g (41g protein) 

Before Sleep
CNP Pro Peptide 65g, Grounded Almonds 2tbsp (52g protein)


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## lseactuary (Jun 24, 2014)

Proposed Exercise Routine: 

4 sets of 10 reps for each exercise. 

Monday - Squat day (Squat with barbell, Leg Extension, Leg Curl, Weighted Sit up) 
Tuesday - Swimming or Cardio on treadmill 
Wednesday - Bench Press day (Dumbbell Bench Press, Chest Dip, Dumbbell Flys, Cable Tricep Extension)
Thursday - Deadlift day (Lat Pull Down, Bent Over Row, Back Raises, Hanging Leg Raises) 
Friday - Overhead Press (Seated Dumbbell Press, Barbell Upright Row, Dumbbell Lateral Raise, Standing Dumbbell Curl) 
Saturday - Carb binge to keep metabolism up 
Sunday - Rest


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## lseactuary (Jun 24, 2014)

Proposed Gear Cycle:

Test Ethan 250mg (2 x 1ml per week for 12 weeks) injected. If I can find 500mg then I will just inject once a week. 
D-bol 50mg per day (1 tablet per day for 6 weeks) taken orally 

Current Stats:

Age 24, 6'0, 82kg. 
Trained naturally for just under 2 years myself (went from 60ish kg to 75kg). Trained with PT for 1 year (bulked to 90kg, went down to 85kg after cut, slacked for 1 month because of exams but have restarted training now). 

Aim:

Not to be huge but to build muscle mass but loose body fat at the same time (if possible) or at least not gain tonnes more body fat.
Little bigger then a mens health/fitness model type physique. No 6 pack is fine so long as it 'looks like' I actually train! haha


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## lseactuary (Jun 24, 2014)

woodswise said:


> Bro you're making this too hard for us (links we have to click on, charts to analyze, etc.).  If you want advice, post up the workouts and diet on here it won't take too much to do that, and you'll save us having to click through on an unknown and therefore risky link.



Can you see the above posts - are these ok now? Am I missing any information? Should I list my previous cycle I did with the PT?


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## JAXNY (Jun 25, 2014)

Post your pictures up


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## JAXNY (Jun 26, 2014)

your diet and workout needs adjusting. is that your current diet that you have posted? can you put the time next to the meals so we can see what time you are eating your meals.


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## lseactuary (Jun 26, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> your diet and workout needs adjusting. is that your current diet that you have posted? can you put the time next to the meals so we can see what time you are eating your meals.



Thats my new proposed diet but it is similar to what I have previously used. 

Timings: 
9am breakfast
10-11am workout
11am drink the shake 
2pm lunch
6pm dinner 
10pm shake


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## lseactuary (Jun 28, 2014)

Anyone got some thoughts please?


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## woodswise (Jun 29, 2014)

lseactuary said:


> Proposed Diet:
> 
> Total: 3103 calories, 284g carb, 290g protein, 81g fat.
> 
> ...



If you're bulking, you need to be at least 500Kcals above maintenance.  Without knowing your maintenance kcals these Kcals look okay to me.  But in general this diet can be improved on quite a bit by taking out the mass gainer and adding in meat and veggies.  I would also lose the liquid egg whites and pasta, in exchange for more meat and vegetables.  The BCAA's are fine.  What about post workout nutrition?  You should have some whey protein and gatorade, maybe.


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## woodswise (Jun 29, 2014)

lseactuary said:


> Proposed Exercise Routine:
> 
> 4 sets of 10 reps for each exercise.
> 
> ...



How well this works will depend entirely on how intensely you work out.  I recommend you alternate between high rep heavy days, and lower rep extremely heavy days.  You should be breathing very heavy and feel like throwing up at the end of the high rep workouts or you aren't working out intensely enough.  It is okay every so often to have a very high rep low weight day.


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## woodswise (Jun 29, 2014)

lseactuary said:


> Proposed Gear Cycle:
> 
> Test Ethan 250mg (2 x 1ml per week for 12 weeks) injected. If I can find 500mg then I will just inject once a week.
> D-bol 50mg per day (1 tablet per day for 6 weeks) taken orally
> ...



As mentioned, AAS is not a good idea until you have been working out for at least a year (or even better: 2 or 3 years) intensely and have your diet under control.  You should have experienced success with both bulking and cutting phases before trying AAS.

If you are committed to going forward with AAS, then I recommend you do 500ml Test E, broken into 2 1ML shots each week.  12 weeks is a very short time to cycle on and would be the minimum, IMO.  If I were doing this I would go for longer -- maybe 24 weeks, but I prefer very long cycles myself.  Since you have previous cycling experience, Dbol will be fine as you proposed.  You should have your AI and PCT on hand so if something goes wrong, or when you are done, you will come off and can avoid nasty side effects and losing most of your gains.

Finally, I think it is a waste for anyone who does not want to be huge, to use AAS because you can easily get lean and muscular without AAS and without all the AAS side effects and health risks.  Why would you take on all that risk for something you can easily achieve with hard work and consistent training all naturally???


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## lseactuary (Jun 30, 2014)

woodswise said:


> If you're bulking, you need to be at least 500Kcals above maintenance.  Without knowing your maintenance kcals these Kcals look okay to me.  But in general this diet can be improved on quite a bit by taking out the mass gainer and adding in meat and veggies.  I would also lose the liquid egg whites and pasta, in exchange for more meat and vegetables.  The BCAA's are fine.  What about post workout nutrition?  You should have some whey protein and gatorade, maybe.



IIFYM.com provides me with a TDEE of 2551-2690 (depending on the formula) if I workout 3x a week. 
I am vegetarian hence no meat in the diet. The mass shake has whey protein in it  
I can change it for a normal protein shake if you think this is better? 
I can add veges to the pasta if this helps? If I don't eat pasta I feel like I haven't eaten anything hence I put it in my diet.

Will I gain a lot of fat with this diet? Or will it provide a lean bulk?


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## lseactuary (Jun 30, 2014)

woodswise said:


> As mentioned, AAS is not a good idea until you have been working out for at least a year (or even better: 2 or 3 years) intensely and have your diet under control.  You should have experienced success with both bulking and cutting phases before trying AAS.
> 
> If you are committed to going forward with AAS, then I recommend you do 500ml Test E, broken into 2 1ML shots each week.  12 weeks is a very short time to cycle on and would be the minimum, IMO.  If I were doing this I would go for longer -- maybe 24 weeks, but I prefer very long cycles myself.  Since you have previous cycling experience, Dbol will be fine as you proposed.  You should have your AI and PCT on hand so if something goes wrong, or when you are done, you will come off and can avoid nasty side effects and losing most of your gains.
> 
> Finally, I think it is a waste for anyone who does not want to be huge, to use AAS because you can easily get lean and muscular without AAS and without all the AAS side effects and health risks.  Why would you take on all that risk for something you can easily achieve with hard work and consistent training all naturally???



I did train naturally myself for just under 2 years, and did gain weight, but wasn't getting to the goals I hoped. I therefore got a PT and trained naturally but again wasn't improving much. Therefore I tired AAS last year and started seeing great improvements. If AAS can get me to my goals, and then I can maintain it naturally, that would be ideal. I did see strength improvements both naturally and with gear and managed to keep a lot of the results after coming off gear. I keep PCT don't worry  

In terms of cycling - test ethan typically comes as 250mg (from the supplier I know). Do you recommend 2ml 2x a week in this case for 24 weeks? Basically I need 500mg 2x a week so 1000mg per week in total? A d-bol 50mg a day for the first 6 weeks? Will the cycle help burn fat as well as increase muscle mass?
By 'huge' I don't mean super huge like Arnold Schwarzenegger but I don't want to be 'fitness model/mens health' side either - somewhere in between would be great. 

What do you think of the strong lifts 5x5 program? That would force me to lift intensely I think...


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## woodswise (Jun 30, 2014)

lseactuary said:


> I did train naturally myself for just under 2 years, and did gain weight, but wasn't getting to the goals I hoped. I therefore got a PT and trained naturally but again wasn't improving much. Therefore I tired AAS last year and started seeing great improvements. If AAS can get me to my goals, and then I can maintain it naturally, that would be ideal. I did see strength improvements both naturally and with gear and managed to keep a lot of the results after coming off gear. I keep PCT don't worry
> 
> In terms of cycling - test ethan typically comes as 250mg (from the supplier I know). Do you recommend 2ml 2x a week in this case for 24 weeks? Basically I need 500mg 2x a week so 1000mg per week in total? A d-bol 50mg a day for the first 6 weeks? Will the cycle help burn fat as well as increase muscle mass?
> By 'huge' I don't mean super huge like Arnold Schwarzenegger but I don't want to be 'fitness model/mens health' side either - somewhere in between would be great.
> ...



Again, reading between the lines, I don't think you need or are ready for AAS.

I know a 55 year old man who, all naturally, has gained 40 lbs of muscle in just over 2 years, with the help of an amazing trainer and getting his diet right.  

You have said you don't want to be big and muscular.  So why will you be using AAS again?  Oh, so you can be lean and shredded?  So you can gain maybe 10 lbs of muscle or a little more?  Those are all attainable without AAS.  

But you have convinced yourself you want AAS, so go for it bud.

5 x 5 sounds good, but I don't know the particulars of the program you are looking at.  Whatever training you do, do it so hard you want to puke, at least a couple times per week.  If you do that, then you are training hard enough, IMO.

Finally, don't neglect your diet.  You can have your training and AAS perfect and not make many gains if your diet is not right.

[I'm starting to sound like a broken record here].


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## lseactuary (Jun 30, 2014)

woodswise said:


> Finally, don't neglect your diet.  You can have your training and AAS perfect and not make many gains if your diet is not right.



What can I improve in my diet please (note I am vegetarian)? Am I missing something? The diet I had before I got from my PT and did make gains - those pics though show I didn't look closer to my goals - and therefore I was not sure what went wrong. I'm not dead set on AAS - just thought it would help me get to my goals. Thats why I posted up on here - for some honest advice. 
What do you think of the pics above? Do you think 10lbs more muscle will get me to my goals? Maybe I am not seeing/understanding something I should be? 
Understood on 5x5 - it has a nice app so will help me push hard for extra gains!


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## woodswise (Jul 1, 2014)

lseactuary said:


> What can I improve in my diet please (note I am vegetarian)? Am I missing something? The diet I had before I got from my PT and did make gains - those pics though show I didn't look closer to my goals - and therefore I was not sure what went wrong. I'm not dead set on AAS - just thought it would help me get to my goals. Thats why I posted up on here - for some honest advice.
> What do you think of the pics above? Do you think 10lbs more muscle will get me to my goals? Maybe I am not seeing/understanding something I should be?
> Understood on 5x5 - it has a nice app so will help me push hard for extra gains!



Have you read the threads about if you are BBing you need to be eating 1.5 to 2 g protein per lb of bodyweight?  That should be your standard, whether you are a vegetarian or meat eater.  It will be easier to reach that goal if you eat meat but should not be impossible if you are vegetarian.  Again, whole foods are better than shakes.  the shakes should only be used in an emergency or when you have no other food choice.  

If you are not eating the right diet (for bulking: 500kcals above maintenance and 100g fat, protein sufficient to give you 1.5 to 2.0 g protein per lb bodyweight, and the rest of your kcals in carbs) you will never gain those 10 lbs of muscle, whether or not you are using AAS.

If you were making gains before, then go back to that approach and stick with it.  To make the changes you want it will take a couple of years at least, of getting diet, training and everything else spot on.

Bro, truthfully if you need a nice app to inspire you to push hard for extra gains, then it sounds like your mind is not focused and your heart is not set on this lifestyle. . . and if that is the case,  no amount of AAS and no amount of training, etc. will help you get to your goals.  So first and foremost, before you pick a meal plan or a training regimen, you need to decide whether you are really committed to this or not.


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## lseactuary (Jul 1, 2014)

woodswise said:


> Have you read the threads about if you are BBing you need to be eating 1.5 to 2 g protein per lb of bodyweight?  That should be your standard, whether you are a vegetarian or meat eater.  It will be easier to reach that goal if you eat meat but should not be impossible if you are vegetarian.  Again, whole foods are better than shakes.  the shakes should only be used in an emergency or when you have no other food choice.
> 
> If you are not eating the right diet (for bulking: 500kcals above maintenance and 100g fat, protein sufficient to give you 1.5 to 2.0 g protein per lb bodyweight, and the rest of your kcals in carbs) you will never gain those 10 lbs of muscle, whether or not you are using AAS.
> 
> ...



Yup I have any my diet allows for about 1.7g per lb (with veg diet). Unfortunately this means 3 shakes a day though (2 if I can use liquid egg whites) otherwise carbs go up too much. You mention 100g fat - what if I have less e.g. 80g? When bulking naturally (and with AAS) I was gaining fat on about 80g fat and 1.75g/per lb protein (1.7g per lb carb also). 
I hit a plateau in terms of being able to lift more weight and was getting frustrated because I was not looking better at all (as you can see from the first pic I didn't even look like I trained). Therefore I turned to gear. Probably not the best line of thinking but the truth. 
The app helps record everything and make sure I do not loose focus... not sure what the problem is. Its just an app for exercises (the 5x5 strong lifts program to be specific). I am committed to this otherwise I would have quit when I saw little change, and wouldn't be on the forum asking for help before cycling etc?


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## JAXNY (Jul 1, 2014)

Your problem is your diet. Being a vegetarian will make it more difficult but your over all diet isn't good. I'd talk to spongy about setting you up on a proper diet. That will make a difference right there


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## lseactuary (Jul 2, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> Your problem is your diet. Being a vegetarian will make it more difficult but your over all diet isn't good. I'd talk to spongy about setting you up on a proper diet. That will make a difference right there



I emailed a few times but got no reply 
Slightly random question but is there something that is meat but not literally meat. i.e. a meat powder that is made from animals but doesn't taste like meat? I would be happy to take something like that if it helps.


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## lseactuary (Jul 16, 2014)

Can admin please remove the picture I uploaded?


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## Spongy (Jul 16, 2014)

I went ahead and removed the post


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## lseactuary (Jul 16, 2014)

Thank you


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## lseactuary (Jul 18, 2014)

Spongy said:


> I went ahead and removed the post



Going to join Spongy and will post up a journal. Fingers crossed this works


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