# Switch to 5x5 after a few months lifting?



## cmrabet (Aug 3, 2017)

Hi all

I'm 41 and started lifting weights in October 2016, but dropped December 2016 and June 2017 because I was travelling overseas. I must say that I haven't been 100% consistent during the months I did go to the gym, but I would say that I was very close, around 75%. I've been following Michael Mathews' Bigger Stronger Leaner program (the 5 day split), I went from 186lb of body weight down to 160lb, and at the same time increased my lifting stats from 0 (not lifting anything) to the following ones:

- Bench Chest: 110lb
- Squat: 120lb
- Deadlifts: 160lb
- Pull ups: 3x10 my weight 3 times a week

The thing is that I don't have good form in any of the above exercises (specially squats and dead lifts), or at least that what I think. I also started noticing that for the last 2 or 3 weeks I haven't made much progress on the gains (I can't add more weights), and what I think is more important to me, I'm getting bored with the program.

Because of these concerns, I started investigating other programs and found 5x5. I really liked its simplicity and what it promises, so here are my questions:

a) Is it a good idea to switch to 5x5 after having some experience lifting?
b) If it's a good idea, should I start from zero (with the bar) and go increasing the weight after each training in order to learn proper form and make my body to adapt to it while increasing weight? Or should I start with some weight in order to make sure my I don't loose all the hard work I did so far? 
c) If it's not a good idea, what other programs do you guys recommend? 5x5 Madcow? 5x3x1? I'm interested in achieving (1st) a good physique and (2nd) strength.

Thanks.


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## BigSwolePump (Aug 3, 2017)

Edit you post and fix your font color....


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## cmrabet (Aug 3, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> Edit you post and fix your font color....



Thanks for pointing that out. For some reason the color went black.


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## IHI (Aug 3, 2017)

When i got back into the game 5yrs ago i started with the stronglift 5x5 program for a few different reasons, and honestly its my goto routine during the summer simply because we are extremely busy so having the time like i do during the winter months isn't happening so its a good way for me to still hit the important stuff to keep at it, but only burning about 3hrs a week.

intially i made huge newbie gains, so i rode it out for a solid year until i got to the sticking points where id have to rinse and repeat once or twice to make next step up. I know for the big boys/strong as an ox guys on here its a rudipoo routine, but for a newbie or time strapped person waiting for more free time "i" believe its a great basic routine


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## ECKSRATED (Aug 3, 2017)

It's a good program. Run it for three months and see how u like it. I'd start with some sort of weight, I wouldn't start with just the bar. Push the compound lifts hard man. Train like an animal. You'll see results no matter what "program" u run.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 3, 2017)

5x5 is never a good idea. Do something else. Anything else.

Cube
5th set
531 
Sheiko
Anything that's not 5x5


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## NbleSavage (Aug 3, 2017)

I prefer Wendler's 531. Here's a mod specifically for the beginner lifter.

*5/3/1 for a Beginner*

_Sep 07, 2011_






Generally, I tell everyone to just do the program as is, regardless of training age. Of course, if you're a trainer and are using the program with a novice athlete or someone new to training, simply use your experience to make whatever changes are required – though there shouldn't be many.
Now if you're a beginner and are working out without any guidance whatsoever, it's probably best to just stick with the basic program. One of the worst things a young lifter can do is take advice from other beginners on message boards –  they usually have all the advice and none of the experience. Below is one beginner modification that's permissible, and effective.  It's a subtle, easy way to add in some extra work on the main lifts without compromising the program or the philosophies it was built upon. You perform a full-body routine, three days a week. Full body strength routines are the best way for novice lifters to quickly get strong, provided the program is non-retarded (i.e. adheres to an intelligent progression system). Instead of just one main lift per workout (using the 5/3/1 set-up), two main lifts are used for additional weekly exposures. Remember that the training max must be correct and if in doubt, err on the side of "too light". Principles guide life AND training.





*Monday* 
Squat – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ *First Set Last ( or FSL)* 
Bench – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL 
Assistance work
*Wednesday* 
Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL 
Press – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL 
Assistance work 

*Friday* 
Bench – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL 
Squat – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL 
Assistance work
The program is set up the same way – taking 90% of your max and working up slowly. All percentages are based on that training max. 

*Assistance Work* 
Each day perform ONE exercise from each category listed below. Perform 50-100 total reps (do whatever sets you want to perform - that doesn't matter) of each exercise.  If you are too weak to get all the reps (chin-ups/pull-ups for example) then simply choose a SECOND movement to complete the total reps.  This is incredibly simple to do. 
The three categories to choose from are: push, pull and single leg/core. 

*Push*: dips, push-ups, DB bench/incline/press, triceps extensions/pushdowns 

*Pull:* chin-ups/pull-ups, inverted rows, rows (DB/machine/BB), face pulls, band pull-aparts, lat pulldown, curls 

*Single Leg/Core:* any abdominal work, back raises, reverse hyperextensions, lunges, step-ups, Bulgarian one-leg squats, KB snatches, swings 

*Other*


Perform Defranco's Agile 8 prior to each workout and should be done every single day.
Perform 10-15 total box jumps or med ball throws PRIOR to lifting.
Tues/Thurs/Sat/Sun some kind of running or conditioning should be done. This will largely be based on your own goals, your current fitness level and what you have access to. DO NOT run yourself into the ground with conditioning; follow the "5/3/1 50% Rule" when conditioning.
If you don't understand some, most or any of this it's probably because you haven't read the book and don't have the foundation to understand the variation.  You can find the full program here.


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## cmrabet (Aug 3, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> 5x5 is never a good idea. Do something else. Anything else.
> 
> Cube
> 5th set
> ...



Why 5x5 is never a good idea? Can you expand more?

Thanks.


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## cmrabet (Aug 3, 2017)

Thanks.

Apart of using % for the weight instead of increases training from training, what is the difference between 5x5 with assistance work added and 5x3x1?



NbleSavage said:


>


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## ECKSRATED (Aug 4, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> 5x5 is never a good idea. Do something else. Anything else.
> 
> Cube
> 5th set
> ...



Why isn't it a good idea? Its a good program to the average new guy to follow. I know plenty of guys that have used it and got bigger and stronger. Its really just a simple way to progressively overload


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 4, 2017)

cmrabet said:


> Why 5x5 is never a good idea? Can you expand more?
> 
> Thanks.



Yes because it is stupid and dumb.



ECKSRATED said:


> Why isn't it a good idea? Its a good program to the average new guy to follow. I know plenty of guys that have used it and got bigger and stronger. Its really just a simple way to progressively overload



Because there are better programs that don't just rely on linear progression alone. Why limit the lift selection? Why 5 sets? Why 5 reps? At some point soon... 

Actually instead I will flip this back to you. Why don't you do 5x5?


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## ECKSRATED (Aug 4, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yes because it is stupid and dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If I didn't do what I do and I just went to the gym for the **** of it then I would give 5x5 a shot. I know there's plenty of versions out there but the ones Ive seen and know friends have used definitely worked. My one buddy got super strong from it. It was actually quite surprising. 

Obviously I don't recommend running 5x5 for like a year straight but for three to four months you can definitely get strength and size from it. 

Many ways to skin a cat. Try them all cus they all work


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## Joliver (Aug 4, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Why 5 sets? Why 5 reps?



Prilepin says 5x5 fits 55-65% range optimally. It fits the 70-75% range on the high end.  It sort of fits as a grueling 125% overload @80-85% (5 reps is a bit above recommended set/rep range, I realize). It fits 3 out of 4 training zones well enough that a new lifter can do well on it.

It ain't that bad of a program. I've wave loaded lots of peeps with quasi-permutations of 5x5...i.e. 4x6,5x5,6x4. Do the math and it's 24,25, and 24 reps.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 4, 2017)

Joliver said:


> Prilepin says 5x5 fits 55-65% range optimally. It fits the 70-75% range on the high end.  It sort of fits as a grueling 125% overload @80-85% (5 reps is a bit above recommended set/rep range, I realize). It fits 3 out of 4 training zones well enough that a new lifter can do well on it.
> 
> It ain't that bad of a program. I've wave loaded lots of peeps with quasi-permutations of 5x5...i.e. 4x6,5x5,6x4. Do the math and it's 24,25, and 24 reps.



Typical to my own programs is a day where 5x5 is done for that exact reason. It's typically a 70% to 75% day.  What I meant by asking why 5 sets and 5 reps is why everyday is it 5 sets of 5 reps? And why that for every lift for every person? No way is that optimal.


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