# Operation Raw Deal 2007



## PillarofBalance (May 24, 2013)

Most of us, including myself weren't around for Operation Raw Deal (ORD) but you've probably heard it mentioned by some of the old timers. It was a very large scale operation targeting underground anabolics.  I just want to post some information about it, so you all understand that this is no game.

There have been a lot of busts lately, some big and some small.  But with each one comes the potential of someone opening their mouth and ratting on someone up the chain.  It is expected that this type of operation will be repeated from time to time. And to some, it feels like its due.  Board traffic is at an all time high.  And the level of arrogance shown by some board owners and sources is astounding. 

News Release [print-friendly page]
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 24, 2007
*
DEA Announces Largest Steroid Enforcement Action in U.S. History
Raw steroid materials from China, HGH, Insulin Growth Factor, 
counterfeit medications also part of Operation Raw Deal*

SEP 24--WASHINGTON – DEA and federal law enforcement officials from the FDA’s Office of Criminal Investigations and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service today announced the culmination of Operation Raw Deal, an international case targeting the global underground trade of anabolic steroids, human growth hormone (HGH) and insulin growth factor (IGF). In addition, the investigation includes significant enforcement of illicit underground trafficking of ancillary and counterfeit medications. The investigation represents the largest steroid enforcement action in U.S. history and took place in conjunction with enforcement operations in nine countries worldwide. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS), Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and the National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC) also played key roles in the investigation.

143 federal search warrants were executed on targets nationwide, resulting in 124 arrests and the seizure of 56 steroid labs across the United States. In total, 11.4 million steroid dosage units were seized, as well as 242 kilograms of raw steroid powder of Chinese origin. As part of Operation Raw Deal, $6.5 million was also seized, as well as 25 vehicles, 3 boats, 27 pill presses, and 71 weapons.

These law enforcement operations were the result of Operation Raw Deal, the largest steroid enforcement action in U.S. history. The nearly two-year-old operation, which culminated in a series of law enforcement actions last week, was led by the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), working with federal law enforcement officials from the Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) Office of Criminal Investigations, the U.S. Postal Service and others. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS), U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC) also played key roles in Operation Raw Deal. The multi-jurisdictional Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) operation was coordinated by prosecutors from the Criminal Division’s Narcotic and Dangerous Drug Section assigned to the Special Operations Division. The U.S. operation took place in conjunction with enforcement operations in Mexico, Canada, China, Belgium, Australia, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Thailand.

Criminal charges were filed this month in several federal districts as part of Operation Raw Deal, including the U.S. Attorneys’ Offices in the Southern District of California, the Southern District of New York, the Middle District of Pennsylvania, and the District of Rhode Island. The indictments include various narcotics distribution offenses, such as conspiracy to import anabolic steroids, and other charges including conspiracy to launder money.

“DEA successfully attacked the illegal steroid industry at every level of its distribution network—from the manufacturers in China who supply the raw materials, to the traffickers in the United States who market the deadly doses. Operation Raw Deal uncovered a clandestine web of international drug dealers who lurk on the Internet for young adults craving the artificial advantage of anabolic steroids,” said DEA Administrator Karen P. Tandy. “Today we reveal the truth behind the underground steroid market: dangerous drugs cooked up all too often in filthy conditions with no regard to safety, giving Americans who purchase them the ultimate raw deal.”

“The FDA Office of Criminal Investigations takes this illegal conduct very seriously and fully supports the investigation and ultimate prosecution of these profiteers who endanger the public by formulating and selling unapproved illegal drugs, even when those who would be endangered are willing participants. These buyers are solely motivated by a desire to gain an unfair competitive advantage by using illegal performance-enhancing substances and the sellers are not concerned with the buyers' health but with making money," said Terry Vermillion, Director of the FDA Office of Criminal Investigations. 

“Whenever someone uses the U.S. Mail to send anything that they know is dangerous, illegal or counterfeit, postal inspectors are prepared to find them and arrest them in order to preserve the integrity of the mail,” said Chief Postal Inspector Alexander Lazaroff of the United States Postal Inspection Service. “I am proud to partner in this operation to stop the suppliers of anabolic steroids and the customers who purchase them, so that the mail will not be an ingredient in this deadly recipe.”

Operation Raw Deal is a four-prong strategy focusing on: raw material manufacturers/suppliers in the China and other countries; underground anabolic laboratories in the United States, Canada and Mexico; numerous U.S.-based websites distributing materials, or conversion kits, necessary to convert raw steroid powders into finished product; and Internet bodybuilding discussion boards that are the catalysts for individuals to learn how to illicitly use, locate and discreetly purchase performance enhance drugs, including anabolic steroids. Many of the underground steroids labs targeted in this case advertise and are endorsed on these message boards.

According to the charges filed in connection with Operation Raw Deal, worldwide manufacturers of the raw materials needed for steroids use websites to market their products and even provide guidance to potential customers. Steroid Internet message boards and chat rooms also use the latest technology in an effort to keep their business transactions – and those of their customers – anonymous. These websites, chat rooms, and message boards also provide information about how to convert the raw material into finished steroid product and boast of their ability to resist law enforcement scrutiny. In addition, these sites promote and often sell “conversion kits” that allow customers to convert raw materials into steroids themselves from home. Besides steroids, many websites targeted also offered other dangerous drugs and chemicals such as ketamine, fentanyl, ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, and GHB.

There is great danger in buying steroids, chemicals, and other illicit products on the Internet. Many companies operating illegally both in the United States and worldwide have no regard for product safety and mislabeling is common – both intentional and unintentional. Products are often misrepresented, and their safety is not at all guaranteed. In addition, federal agents report that many of the underground steroid labs seized in Operation Raw Deal are extremely unsanitary, further illustrating the danger in buying these products illegally. For example, recent lab seizures uncovered huge amounts of raw materials being mixed in bathtubs and bathroom sinks.

Southern District of California

A federal grand jury sitting in San Diego handed up seven indictments charging 14 individuals with conspiracy to import anabolic steroids, conspiracy to distribute anabolic steroids, and conspiracy to launder money. The indictments also seek criminal forfeiture. The indictments allege that the defendants purchased raw anabolic steroid powers from suppliers in foreign countries, including China, in order to manufacture steroid products in their underground laboratories and distribute the anabolic steroids through the Internet.  Defendants include:  Adam C. Hullander, Israel Sanchez, Felix Parache, Charles Joseph Lupico, Timothy Edward Smith, Jeffrey Lee Mitchell, Thomas Robert Souders, Michael Guthrie, John Russo, and Otis Neal Armour.

Southern District of New York

Indictments returned on May 17, 2007, and Sept. 20, 2007, by a federal grand jury in the Southern District of New York charge a total of five individuals with conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance.  Three of the defendants are also charged with conspiracy to engage in money laundering.  The indictments allege that the defendants owned and ran underground steroid labs operating in the New York area called “Bodiez by Design,” and “Strong Island Underground,” a/k/a “SIUG Labs.” The indictments also allege that the defendants advertised steroids for sale on the Internet and shipped them to customers across the country by mail, directing customers to pay for the steroids in such a way as to mask the parties’ identities and the nature of the transactions.  Searches of the Strong Island Underground lab location and the defendants’ residences resulted in the seizure of over 1.1 million dosage units of steroids and ancillary drugs in liquid and pill form, as well as steroid-related drug paraphernalia.

Four complaints, signed on Sept. 20 and 21, 2007, by a federal magistrate judge in the Southern District of New York, together charge an additional four individuals.  Two are charged with conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance; one is alleged to have sold raw testosterone powder to customers over the Internet, and another allegedly purchased steroids from China for domestic re-distribution.  A third defendant is charged with maintaining a drug-involved premise, for allegedly providing access to a rental storage unit to a steroid underground lab to be used as a stash house for the lab’s operations.  A fourth individual is charged with three counts:  selling drug paraphernalia, using the mails to distribute drug paraphernalia, and providing equipment for the manufacture of controlled substances.   The complaint alleges that the defendant owned and operated a company called “Titan Med Supply” which supplied the illegal steroid community with the necessary materials to convert raw steroid powders and other precursor materials into injectable liquid steroid solutions.

Middle District of Pennsylvania

On Sept. 18, 2007, a federal grand jury in the Middle District of Pennsylvania returned a one-count indictment charging three individuals with conspiracy to distribute and possess with intent to distribute anabolic steroids. The indictment alleges that these defendants and others conspired together to illegally distribute steroids for a two-year period extending from June 2005 through September 2007. The defendants were arrested following the return of the indictment and are currently awaiting trial. Each defendant faces up to five years in prison and fines totaling $250,000 if convicted on the conspiracy charge.

In a number of related matters, on Sept. 24, 2007, the U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Pennsylvania filed felony informations charging five other individuals with drug-related crimes. Three persons were charged with conspiracy to distribute and possess with intent to distribute ketamine, a Schedule III controlled substance. One individual was charged with conspiracy to distribute and possess with intent to distribute anabolic steroids. Each defendant faces up to five years in prison and fines totaling $250,000 if convicted on the conspiracy charges. Another person was charged with conspiracy to distribute cocaine. This defendant faces up to 20 years in prison and fines totaling $1 million if convicted.

District of Rhode Island

A federal grand jury in Rhode Island has charged Genescience Pharmaceutical Company, which is based in China, the company’s CEO, Lei Jin, and three other men with participating in an international trafficking conspiracy in which millions of dollars worth of human growth hormone (HGH) was smuggled into the United States and other countries.  The smugglers allegedly used Internet Web sites and clandestine e-mail addresses to facilitate the smuggling.  The U.S. government has also seized money traced to the smuggling operation – about $3.6 million – from Chinese bank branches in New York

District of Maryland

On May 9, 2007, a federal grand jury in Baltimore indicted Bradley C. Blum, 36, of Houston Texas, for conspiring to illegally distribute and illegally distributing human growth hormone (HGH), which he allegedly obtained from a manufacturer in China, and then unlawfully sold to customers in Lexington Park, Md., and elsewhere in the United States.  The indictment also seeks $863,534 in property and proceeds involved in and traceable to this illegal distribution scheme.  In a related case, Anthony E. Schuler, of Allentown, Pa. was arrested on Sept. 20, 2007 and charged by criminal complaint with conspiracy to distribute and attempted distribution of human growth hormone, also allegedly obtained from a manufacturer in China. 

Western District of Missouri

Four individuals have been charged in the Western District of Missouri for their involvement in the distribution of anabolic steroids. An indictment returned Sept. 21, 2007 charges Bryan Wilson and April Wilson with conspiring to distribute and distributing anabolic steroids. The indictment alleges that Bryan and April Wilson conspired with individuals located in China to distribute anabolic steroids to customers located around the United States. In exchange for wire money transfers to sources located in Qingdao, China, Bryan and April Wilson would receive raw steroid powder. At locations in Boone and Jackson Counties, Missouri, Bryan Wilson allegedly the raw steroid powder to pill and liquid anabolic steroid form. Operating under the names Pro Pharm, Pro Pharm Labs, and Palmco, Bryan and April Wilson allegedly distributed the final anabolic steroid products to customers throughout the United States.

Two other defendants were charged by way of federal complaint in the Western District of Missouri as part of Operation Raw Deal. Mikal Schrage and Jason Varner were charged in separate criminal complaints with possessing with the intent to distribute anabolic steroids. The affidavit in support of Mikal Schrage’s criminal complaint alleges that Schrage allegedly transported approximately five pounds of powder anabolic steroids and 10,000 milliliters of liquid anabolic steroids from Florida to his residence in Nixa, Mo., when Schrage was stopped and arrested by law enforcement on Sept. 1, 2007. The affidavit in support of Jason Varner’s criminal complaint alleges that Varner sought to purchase 188 vials of anabolic steroids outside of Columbia, Mo., on Sept.19, 2007. After Varner’s arrest, law enforcement officers recovered an additional 44 vials of anabolic steroids from Varner’s residence.

District of Connecticut

In a related action, In April 2006, the FBI’s Healthcare Fraud Unit in the District of Connecticut initiated “Operation Phony Pharm,” an undercover investigation targeting the illegal sale of anabolic steroids, HGH and prescription pain medication over the Internet.  Although they began independently of each other, Operation Phony Pharm and Operation Raw Deal have provided mutual assistance as these investigations evolved.

In an indictment unsealed in Hartford, Conn., Edwin F. Porter, 41, of Chandler, Ariz.; Matthew J. Peltz, 36, of Chandler, Ariz.; Tyler J. Lunn, 27 of Phoenix, Ariz.; and Walter T. Corey, 37, of Cherleroi, Pa., are charged with conspiring to distribute and distribution of anabolic steroids.  The indictment alleges the defendants purchased raw steroid powder from China, manufactured anabolic steroids in home laboratories in both oral and injectable form, and distributed them to customers around the country through a MySpace.com profile and an internet website they created, www.anabolic-superstore.com.

Also, as a result of this ongoing investigation, on Sept. 21, 2007, Brian S. Tompkins, 29, of Deltona, Fla., pleaded guilty in Hartford to one count of distribution of anabolic steroids. Tompkins admitted that from September 2006 to July 2007, he distributed anabolic steroids by mail to individuals who contacted him through his MySpace.com profile.  Tompkins further admitted that, in July 2007, he purchased two kilograms of steroid powder from a supplier in China. And today, Alan R. Blair, 52, of Wilton, Conn., pleaded guilty in Hartford to one count of distributing HGH without a prescription.  Blair admitted that, from approximately November 2004 to April 2007, he distributed HGH to customers throughout world using the website www.jintropin.com.  The HGH was shipped directly to Blair’s customers from a supplier in China.


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## gymrat827 (May 24, 2013)

this shit is serious.  they dont fuk around at all.


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## Jada (May 24, 2013)

That is some wild shit:0 crazy.


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## #TheMatrix (May 24, 2013)

I heard abiut raw deal....when I was natty


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## FreeBirdSam (May 24, 2013)

I hardly consider myself an old timer, but this was when I lost my local source.   I couldn't agree more with the feeling of something coming soon, and last I heard was talk of them targeting the community from the other end - research chems.    That's why the raid at MP has left me a little curious as to what the future may hold.

All these illegal drugs, meth, heroin, crack, MDMA, ...  And they are wasting resources trying to bust honest guys that just want to improve there physiques.    Will never make sense to me.


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## PFM (May 24, 2013)

samcooke said:


> I hardly consider myself an old timer, but this was when I lost my local source.   I couldn't agree more with the feeling of something coming soon, and last I heard was talk of them targeting the community from the other end - research chems.    That's why the raid at MP has left me a little curious as to what the future may hold.
> 
> All these illegal drugs, meth, heroin, crack, MDMA, ...  And they are wasting resources trying to bust honest guys that just want to improve there physiques.    Will never make sense to me.



Gearheads are not gun toting idiots strung out with no money. This is really about money. Note all the personal property and cash seized. So go for the easy guys that don't shoot and stab, plus they actually have things to take.............yes it's fucking BS.

All the women sucked into the crack and heroin addiction selling themselves to make some ghetto rat money and there are ZERO Juicers pimping, robbing and wrecking the morality of humans for their fix.

Shit makes me sick.


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## FreeBirdSam (May 24, 2013)

I was mistaken, 2005 was when I lost my source.  Operation gear grinder was the cause.    Now I feel old.   Not pfm old, just old.


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## grind4it (May 24, 2013)

It's good to keep this memory fresh. We all have a lot to lose.

I get mad when I read things like the statment "to the traffickers in the United States who market the deadly doses" that was made in this. To borrow a line; show me the bodies. This is another perfect example of our press imposing thier uneducated opions on to the other sheep.

The reality is, this country is on the verge of decrimilizing pot and its legal to purchase achohol; both of which have been proven to impair drivers. On the other hand hormones/steroids have been made out to be some thing that kills people.....fucking modern day equivlant of the 1920s reefer madness.

Thanks for the post POB


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## Poof (May 24, 2013)

PFM said:


> Gearheads are not gun toting idiots strung out with no money. This is really about money. Note all the personal property and cash seized. So go for the easy guys that don't shoot and stab, plus they actually have things to take.............yes it's fucking BS.
> 
> All the women sucked into the crack and heroin addiction selling themselves to make some ghetto rat money and there are ZERO Juicers pimping, robbing and wrecking the morality of humans for their fix.
> 
> Shit makes me sick.


The heavy crap like crack, coke, heroin etc... the feds are getting cuts and padding their pockets from these. Makes sense not to mess with their income.


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## biggerben692000 (May 24, 2013)

I know a guy that got cracked in Gear Grinder....his problem was ketamine there. I also did a small amount of time with a guy from Arizona that went down in Raw Deal...his Father got cracked, too. Yup...times coming. I think sources feel it too. Many going dark or private lately. The smart ones and ones that have been around are disciplined like that. It's hard to close up and have the flow stop. Some tell themselves they should break but at the same time tell themselves they can't stop and need that money.


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## corvettels3 (May 24, 2013)

This all went down when ONE dumbshit was too lazy to use java. Instead he decided to have the encryption done on hushmail's server.


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## PillarofBalance (May 24, 2013)

PFM said:


> Gearheads are not gun toting idiots strung out with no money. This is really about money. Note all the personal property and cash seized. So go for the easy guys that don't shoot and stab, plus they actually have things to take.............yes it's fucking BS.
> 
> All the women sucked into the crack and heroin addiction selling themselves to make some ghetto rat money and there are ZERO Juicers pimping, robbing and wrecking the morality of humans for their fix.
> 
> Shit makes me sick.



The money is correct. Its FDA protecting Big Pharma's profits.


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## biggerben692000 (May 24, 2013)

Gear Grinder was really the result of all the ketamine that was coming across with the gear...the k got crazy. Kids and shit. Feds like to act when kids are involved....good press. Raves and X and all that was real big then. Steroids and K and X were all being sold at clubs. Lots of busts with K and gear together back then.....sadly, I know all too well about that.


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## Yaya (May 24, 2013)

If you were around then you remember this for sure..I was on the boards but not as active back then. People must always keep this on the back of there minds.


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## hulksmash (May 24, 2013)

Yea throw narcs into the mix and you're bound to cause a bust


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## AndroSport (May 25, 2013)

I am also no "old-timer" but I was around when this shit went down and know (yes still know) a bro who was running a fairly large lab operation and got popped... big time popped. He is about to compete in a masters tournament here shortly... so he is clearly back into the game on a much smaller level and looking shredded as fuck.

I had access to boards back then but just logged in for research and was never really that active.

VERY VERY scary shit boys... everything seems kosher these days because most of you have only ever had to order your gear online and that makes you feel safe... but the threat is still there just the same as if you were going to meet some shady guy who you only know through a guy at the gym or if you were smuggling your own gear back across the border. (all of which I have done)

Stay safe and NEVER sacrifice your security to simply make the process easier!!


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## Yaya (May 25, 2013)

Gear grinder was bad for the int fucks, i could be wrong but i think thats what scooped up all the mexican sources.

Raw deal was wayyy worse cause it was here.

I also remember when bd went down, they were the biggest ugl at the time imo.. One of the owners (crawley) is now.dead..that why when you see all this bd.shit out there its all fake copies...mostly produced by IP who is now closed just recently. If you are up to date.with news then you will know just recently.there was a bigtime US bust who was involved with IP

Lots going on..stay safe


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## biggerben692000 (May 25, 2013)

Mexico cooperated with our gov't to shut down the mexican vet labs. The same labs opened up some time later after things calmed down, though.



Yaya said:


> Gear grinder was bad for the int fucks, i could be wrong but i think thats what scooped up all the mexican sources.
> 
> Raw deal was wayyy worse cause it was here.
> 
> ...


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## Yaya (May 25, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> Mexico cooperated with our gov't to shut down the mexican vet labs. The same labs opened up some time later after things calmed down, though.




I was a fan of ttokyo and brovel


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## RISE (May 25, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> Gear Grinder was really the result of all the ketamine that was coming across with the gear...the k got crazy. Kids and shit. Feds like to act when kids are involved....good press. Raves and X and all that was real big then. Steroids and K and X were all being sold at clubs. Lots of busts with K and gear together back then.....sadly, I know all too well about that.



thats weird, I've never seen a jacked raver lol


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## #TheMatrix (May 25, 2013)

RISE said:


> thats weird, I've never seen a jacked raver lol



starts and ends with brother bundy.....


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## FreeBirdSam (May 25, 2013)

Yaya said:


> I was a fan of ttokyo and brovel



either Tornel/brovel were WAY over dosed, or the raws nowadays just aren't as good.   I've tried a lot of different gear and it just doesn't seem the same as back then.


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## Yaya (May 25, 2013)

samcooke said:


> either Tornel/brovel were WAY over dosed, or the raws nowadays just aren't as good.   I've tried a lot of different gear and it just doesn't seem the same as back then.



i totally agree man, i remember the brovel prop.. it was like 20 or 50 ml, till this day no prop was as strong, not even viromone.

i did tornel test e and i remember thinking that the shit was so cheap it must of been underdosed.. wow! was i wrong, that shit was amazing.

GETTING back to the subject at hand, everyone should read POBs first post carefully, its a scary reality and like me it should be in the back of your minds.


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## PFM (May 25, 2013)

samcooke said:


> either Tornel/brovel were WAY over dosed, or the raws nowadays just aren't as good.   I've tried a lot of different gear and it just doesn't seem the same as back then.



I know from running Chinese GH vs USA Pharma & Swiss, the USA & Swiss is superior.


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## Azog (May 25, 2013)

sparticus said:


> starts and ends with brother bundy.....



Accidental dislike...my bad.


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## SHRUGS (May 25, 2013)

Art Atwood, dude was my neighbor for 6yrs. He got cracked for operation Raw Deal or whatever it was called. Man that dude was one cool fucker. Very laid back and down to earth. Look him up if you dont know about this giant brother of ours in iron. IFBB Pro to the max! May he rest in peace. Dude taught me alot about body building and how to use compounds correctly. Too bad he liked the hardcore rec drugs. Much love and respect brother,
!SHRUGS!


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## biggerben692000 (May 25, 2013)

SHRUGS said:


> Art Atwood, dude was my neighbor for 6yrs. He got cracked for operation Raw Deal or whatever it was called. Man that dude was one cool fucker. Very laid back and down to earth. Look him up if you dont know about this giant brother of ours in iron. IFBB Pro to the max! May he rest in peace. Dude taught me alot about body building and how to use compounds correctly. Too bad he liked the hardcore rec drugs. Much love and respect brother,
> !SHRUGS!


You're my friend, SHRUGS. But I gotta tell you that you're wrong. Art got cracked after Raw Deal Down in Texas...he was moving shit out of his gym. He was a fucking rat. I know he has friends that will back him up on the boards even knowing he cooperated. He flipped just as fast a a crack head worried that he'd be locked up and jonesing for a fix. I'm telling you. This is fact. He did everyone a favor by expiring. Fuck him.


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## RISE (May 25, 2013)

Man, all you guys are depressing me with all this old gear talk.  Makes me wanna cry I never got to try it!


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## biggerben692000 (May 25, 2013)

RISE said:


> Man, all you guys are depressing me with all this old gear talk.  Makes me wanna cry I never got to try it!



I call these days the "Golden Years", RISE. Gear is so cheap and plentiful now, it's ridiculous. I quoted $25 for 10ml of test 250 back in 2003. Adjusted for inflation you'd be looking at $45. I'm snatching it up for $30.
Something's gonna give.....and it's gonna be soon. Back then it was coming fro MX. Now, it's coming and has been coming from China. It's just a matter of time before shit gets sideways. 
I remember saying that $25 for test e was too cheap. Anyone with a computer could get that. Same shit now. Things have a way of correcting themselves. You've got guys that aren't criminals opening shop once again selling to anyone and selling cheap as fuck. Keep your heads down fellas.


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## grizzldsealpoacher (May 25, 2013)

its in the air for sure. Just a good reminder to keep your shit tight. Purge your CPU's and online accounts often ! The DOJ needs nothing to go snooping in your shit facebook gmail etc. No warrant suspicion of crime nothing they just can. I am not saying there going to but what if god forbid you get popped say driving with something and they seize your cpu. U most likely have everything they need sitting in your unlocked email acct or FORUM acct right there to nail you to the cross w/o saying anything. Speaking of "saying" dont fucking be a rat. Its the lowest form of person on earth . If you are privledged enough to have contacts in the world you have earned them through trust that you would keep the contact safe as you can and they would do the same for you. Most likely if you do scum out and talk , you dont have enough info to get your pussy ass out of trouble so all you would be doing is digging your hole deeper and ruining someone else's world. Remember kiddo's 9 times out of 10 you can get yourself out of what ever you got yourself into with money and lawyers, the more you talk the harder it is gonna be do that . So shut the fuck up and ask for your lawyer. The law is not there to help they want to seal the deal to incriminate you . k im done rant off

http://cms.fightforthefuture.org/cispa-not-dead/   step up and help


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## biggerben692000 (May 25, 2013)

grizzldsealpoacher said:


> its in the air for sure. Just a good reminder to keep your shit tight. Purge your CPU's and online accounts often ! The DOJ needs nothing to go snooping in your shit facebook gmail etc. No warrant suspicion of crime nothing they just can. I am not saying there going to but what if god forbid you get popped say driving with something and they seize your cpu. U most likely have everything they need sitting in your unlocked email acct or FORUM acct right there to nail you to the cross w/o saying anything. Speaking of "saying" dont fucking be a rat. Its the lowest form of person on earth . If you are privledged enough to have contacts in the world you have earned them through trust that you would keep the contact safe as you can and they would do the same for you. Most likely if you do scum out and talk , you dont have enough info to get your pussy ass out of trouble so all you would be doing is digging your hole deeper and ruining someone else's world. Remember kiddo's 9 times out of 10 you can get yourself out of what ever you got yourself into with money and lawyers, the more you talk the harder it is gonna be do that . So shut the fuck up and ask for your lawyer. The law is not there to help they want to seal the deal to incriminate you . k im done rant off
> 
> http://cms.fightforthefuture.org/cispa-not-dead/   step up and help



Unless you're cooperating with the feds you're not getting off. The state, yes. I've been through both. I know it sounds like I'm trying to show my big dick, but regular has all my shit. I fucking know how all this shit works.


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## grizzldsealpoacher (May 25, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> Unless you're cooperating with the feds you're not getting off. The state, yes. I've been through both. I know it sounds like I'm trying to show my big dick, but regular has all my shit. I fucking know how all this shit works.



no doubt bro I am not saying your gonna get off I am just saying let the money and lawyers talk not your mouth  I have had my share of trouble also. I have eaten charges and beaten them either way. U can call me alot of things one thing you can no one can say is He's a rat 

I dont put it on my plate if i cant eat it


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## biggerben692000 (May 25, 2013)

grizzldsealpoacher said:


> no doubt bro I am not saying your gonna get off I am just saying let the money and lawyers talk not your mouth  I have had my share of trouble also. I have eaten charges and beaten them either way. U can call me alot of things one thing you can no one can say is He's a rat
> 
> I dont put it on my plate if i cant eat it



Ok. The fed sentencing guidelines are set in motherfucking stone. Don't even need the fucking judge. The prosecuter is the nuts. Downward departures are the only way out of that shit. Saftey Valve is rat status. 51k's can be exposed. pacer.gov has all our paperwork. The pre-sentencing investigation that's done for all in the feds gives you your criminal category. Your crime has a number going down the chart....your crimal category goes across....if your sentence isn't there, and your time is less it's because of downward departures cuz you cooperated. That's how you check your people out. 
I'm here and other places calling John Russo(owner of OLM) and Thorus out. They were co-defendants. It sounds like I'm sucking my own dick but I'm a career criminal. I can't be schooled on this shit. You show up in fed holding, chances are I'm your shot caller. Again, reg has all my shit. If you wanna prove me wrong, put your paperwork up. John Gotti didn't get off.
Fucking stupid kids talk about how that stupid lame ass rapper TI isn't a snitch and got off. Uh uh. Somebody is on the hook for the automatic weapons and silencers....15yrs mandatory. He's cooperating. He may have to testify at some point. The feds threaten guys with a CI that will put them away for 25....they'll take 15.


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## SuperBane (May 25, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> Fucking stupid kids talk about how that stupid lame ass rapper TI isn't a snitch and got off. Uh uh. Somebody is on the hook for the automatic weapons and silencers....15yrs mandatory. He's cooperating. He may have to testify at some point. The feds threaten guys with a CI that will put them away for 25....they'll take 15.



"Whats todays mathematics? shit ain't addin' up
Get knocked with 10 machine guns only get 12 months?
Ooooh weee, don't talk to me, you talk to him, you talkin' to them
I got the best lawyers money can buy
They said they would've got me 10, or maybe 9
I said "How do you explain how homey breeeze?"
They said keep ya mouth shut or you eatin' the cheese"

- 50 Cent


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## SHRUGS (May 25, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> You're my friend, SHRUGS. But I gotta tell you that you're wrong. Art got cracked after Raw Deal Down in Texas...he was moving shit out of his gym. He was a fucking rat. I know he has friends that will back him up on the boards even knowing he cooperated. He flipped just as fast a a crack head worried that he'd be locked up and jonesing for a fix. I'm telling you. This is fact. He did everyone a favor by expiring. Fuck him.



Yeah I know he got cracked after he moved down to Texas. After he moved away I never got to talk with him again. But the 6yrs he was my neighbor he sure was a nice guy. Always happy to help out and share knowledge. I would've never guessed him a rat but always wondered the real truth. I figured he was workin with somebody to not serve any time for that shit.
!SHRUGS!


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## grizzldsealpoacher (May 26, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> Ok. The fed sentencing guidelines are set in motherfucking stone. Don't even need the fucking judge. The prosecuter is the nuts. Downward departures are the only way out of that shit. Saftey Valve is rat status. 51k's can be exposed. pacer.gov has all our paperwork. The pre-sentencing investigation that's done for all in the feds gives you your criminal category. Your crime has a number going down the chart....your crimal category goes across....if your sentence isn't there, and your time is less it's because of downward departures cuz you cooperated. That's how you check your people out.
> I'm here and other places calling John Russo(owner of OLM) and Thorus out. They were co-defendants. It sounds like I'm sucking my own dick but I'm a career criminal. I can't be schooled on this shit. You show up in fed holding, chances are I'm your shot caller. Again, reg has all my shit. If you wanna prove me wrong, put your paperwork up. John Gotti didn't get off.
> Fucking stupid kids talk about how that stupid lame ass rapper TI isn't a snitch and got off. Uh uh. Somebody is on the hook for the automatic weapons and silencers....15yrs mandatory. He's cooperating. He may have to testify at some point. The feds threaten guys with a CI that will put them away for 25....they'll take 15.



Ok brother your talking a different level of heat then I will ever see. I will never risk my life to end up in that situation, I will only risk what I am willing to take responsibility for . I am a career blue collar guy, who happens to know his way around . I would guess most of us are. When I am saying don't talk I am saying it to a guy caught with a personal stash who most likely with enough money and a good lawyer has a decent chance of getting off or a more desirable charge.  But instead of rolling the dice in court he turns bitch and gives up way more then he should but not enough to get himself out of the frying pan. I have seen it happen to many times . I just hope for the dirt thats done. the ones involved would keep me safe, BC I for sure will protect them


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## Rfagazzi (May 26, 2013)

This thread is bringing back some not so pleasant memories. Lots of nail biting going on back then!


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## powermaster (May 27, 2013)

So just how much can something like this effect a little guy that is buying cycles twice a year. Or is this something that effects us all if we get popped? Like all you I get ticked when I read things like this. Arnold should step up and defend AAS. LMAO Anyway its just comes down to Gov Feds taking from the truely innocent guy and putting it in his own pocket


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## ripped_one (Jun 23, 2013)

Ive been a member at a few source sites for the last 10 years.  Brings back memories for sure.  Pro Pharm was my first intro to gear and they were busted in ord.  Scary.  I always wonder if my info isnt in some database from that.  I also had a HUGE pack busted at the post office from pro pharm in 05 but the cops were never able to produce a warrant.  Not sure why or how but after several attempts to get me to talk to them they stopped.

SSB was around then too.  If you dont remember gymace then you missed out on some fun times.  Anyone remember what his lab was called???


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## biggerben692000 (Jun 23, 2013)

ripped_one said:


> Brings back memories for sure.  Pro Pharm was my first intro to gear and they were busted in ord.  Scary.  I always wonder if my info isnt in some database from that.



I'm pretty confidant that if anyone has ordered from OLM that chances are they're in digital prison and on deck if the feds ever need anything from them.


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## ripped_one (Jun 23, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> I'm pretty confidant that if anyone has ordered from OLM that chances are they're in digital prison and on deck if the feds ever need anything from them.



I think I have an account there but a friend warned me specifically to stay away. Not sure why that board always seemed to have drama going on...


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## ripped_one (Jun 23, 2013)

biggerben692000 said:


> You're my friend, SHRUGS. But I gotta tell you that you're wrong. Art got cracked after Raw Deal Down in Texas...he was moving shit out of his gym. He was a fucking rat. I know he has friends that will back him up on the boards even knowing he cooperated. He flipped just as fast a a crack head worried that he'd be locked up and jonesing for a fix. I'm telling you. This is fact. He did everyone a favor by expiring. Fuck him.



I dont think he had a gym but he did have a supplement store he was part owner of.  I know because I bought all my supps there for the better part of 3 years.  I was also going there when art got busted... he sold 100s of vials to feds but it all turned out to be sterile oil.  It wasnt at his shop but in a parking lot nearby.

His bust was in the same time frame the trainer from plano got busted (the one that killed himself and his gf)... not related to ord.  That was like well over a year after ord in fact.

Either way, I dont think art had much info to give the feds.  To my knowledge noone ever got taken down as a result of that.  I think it all pointed back to a guy that was then dead.

Just my thoughts on that.


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## biggerben692000 (Jun 23, 2013)

ripped_one said:


> I think I have an account there but a friend warned me specifically to stay away. Not sure why that board always seemed to have drama going on...


Real life drama is the heaviest kind. John, the owner of the board and a sponsor that goes by Thorus were both indicted on the same Fed case in the early 2000's(2003?) for money laundering and steroid distribution. I'd love to get into it but i'd rather pull up their paperwork and my notes. I'm very tired long couple of days. If you're are interested pm me and I'll get you the goods....I've got 2 numbers and one letter for you....5K1. Can you say "Protective Custody"?!?!?!?


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