# strength question for beginners



## johnjohn (Sep 5, 2021)

Hello everyone, my name is John  and i am new to weight/strength training. I am 48 years old and i have never trained before. I have never had visibly developed biceps in my lifetime. I have some medical background that could be relevant to my question: i have had two arthroscopic surgeries on my left shoulder to treat impingement syndrome/frozen shoulder and one operation on my elbow area to treat persistent golfer's arm. So three surgeries in three years. I lost alot of strength and what little muscle mass that i had in my arms. I started searching youtube for strength training videos and i found a few that seemed to be helpful. Not spamming but someone named atheanx and a man named ryan something has videos. I started lifting dumbells at home and i actually have gains. I have a little egg biceps forming. I'm sure that body builders will laugh at my little gains but i am happy to actually have a visible developed baby biceps. I'm trying to increase my strength and size a bit as i enter older ages. I do planks, stretches and dumbell exercises to train. So now that all of this info is ou of the way, here is my current problem which led me  to this forum to ask a question.

I started a routine of dumbell lifting at the beginning of August 2021. I started with biceps because i have no visible biceps. My lateral triceps look good when flexed from years of pushups. Anyway, i did preacher curls, concentration curls using 5kg. I thought that every other day workout was correct. so i did this for two weeks. I noticed that the weight was feeling light and too easy. So i switched to 7.5 kg. I noticed burn and pump and gains. I actually have a tiny developed biceps flex now. However, i missed a week of training because of covid vaccination. The doctor told me to avoid weight traing for atleast 5 days. I grabbed the weights today and i wanted to lift the 7.5kg as 12 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps in three sets. I started out doing 10 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps 2 sets. I began with a preacher curl and i could only perform the curl 6 times and felt like i reached failure. what happened? before my vaccination i was doing 10 reps, 6 reps and 4 reps no problem. Today i couldn't do 6 reps. I had to drop the weight back to 5 kg. am i losing strength? i felt like i was gaining strength and i see muscle growth but now i am struggling with the 7.5 kg curls.

should i start at the beginning again (5 kg, 10 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps in 2 sets)? how should i proceed from here. I really don't know why i struggled to lift the 7.5 kg today. did i screw up somehow?

i don't know if it helps but i'll attach a phoo of my baby bicpes. i know that some body builders will laugh and that is okay. i'm not a tough guy or a body builder. i am just trying to get fit and trai for a better old age and longer life. I want to be around to help my son through his early years. Anyway, any help is appreciated.

Thank you for taking time to read my post. Best wishes,
John


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## CJ (Sep 5, 2021)

If your goal is general fitness and some strength gains, a good plan would be a simple total body routine 3x per week.

Beginners make gains pretty much going anything, so nothing complicated is necessary.

What equipment do you have access to? What are your limitations? I can give you a basic template.

We could also talk about your nutrition plan that you laid out in your other thread. There are a few things that could be done there to accelerate your progress.


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## johnjohn (Sep 6, 2021)

Hello CJ275,

my goal is to gain strength and size in all major muscle groups. I've increased my neck size atleast one size bigger by doing plate to head exercises. I've increased my bicpes a size. I've increased my core strength (i think so?). I tried a plank and my abdomen was shaking heavy by the time i reached 30 seconds. I now have a plank hold up to two minutes before shaking.

I isolate my biceps to begin my training because they are the least developed muscles in my body. My mouth is probably my strongest muscle group  ahh, i crack myself up.

I actually do forearms, biceps, brachialis, triceps and shoulders day.
I follow that with neck, traps, chest and back day.
I follow that with legs, hips and calves day with core strength planks. This routine includes dumbell squats.
Then rinse and repeat.

My Wife has a stepper. I don't know the English name for this device. You walk using pedal like platforms. I'll add a photo here.



	

		
			
		

		
	
I use it for legs and cardio. I also get agressive and use my neck on it and my forearms (shoulders included?). I try to throw everything at this strength/size process.

I could definitely use some nutrition and training advice. I read somewhere that each of us has a particular max size that we can obtain genetically. I'd like to max out sometime. Just to see how large and strong that my muscles can be naturally.

I started with 5 kg to 7 kg to ease my shoulder and elbow into training. surgery and the operation make me think that these areas are weak and could easily be injured with improper training and too heavy of a weight. So i am trying to ease into training.

I currently have a set of 20kg dumbells, a 99 pound resistance band, a 15 kg resistance band, a stepper and a grip strengthener that also seems to contract the forearms.

lately i watch youtube videos for exercise routines.





i do the kettle ball exercise in this video using a 7kg dumbell. I replace the bike with my stepper.

i watch various atleanx videos





i have been following videos Ryan Humiston





i just read an article at men's journal that states "bananas are irritants to your gut that could be the source of your regular fatigue". so i shouldn't eat a banana for energy? interesting.

limitations in terms of health or equipment? only thing that comes to mind as a limitation is bad thoughts, so mental. I do not have negativity restraining me and i choose to train.


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## CJ (Sep 6, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> Hello CJ275,
> 
> my goal is to gain strength and size in all major muscle groups. I've increased my neck size atleast one size bigger by doing plate to head exercises. I've increased my bicpes a size. I've increased my core strength (i think so?). I tried a plank and my abdomen was shaking heavy by the time i reached 30 seconds. I now have a plank hold up to two minutes before shaking.
> 
> ...


Ok, give me a bit and I'll write you up something. 

It's going to look incredibly basic, but I PROMISE YOU that that's what's appropriate for you right now. There's no need for complicated exercises, techniques, or anything like that. 

Oh, and stop the neck training immediately. There's no need for it, and if you thicken your neck muscles, it could start to affect your breathing.


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## CJ (Sep 6, 2021)

Here's a basic template for a Full Body DB Routine. It will fit your stated goal of being able to play with your children, and serve you well in basic movement patterns to enhance your quality of life. Things can be changed, but this is a good skeleton from which to work with. 

Day A:
DB Goblet Squats 3x10
DB Walking Lunges 3x10 each side
DB Neutral Grip Row, keep elbows close 3x10
DB Benchpress 3x10
Optional Accessory Work:
Bis/Tris/Delts/Calfs 

Day B:
DB Romanian Deadlift 3x10
DB Step Ups 3x10 each side
DB Overhand Grip Rows, keep elbows wide 3x10
DB Inc/Overhead Press 3x10
Optional Accessory Work:
Bis/Tris/Delts/Calfs

Alternate these 2 workouts, however many days per week you train. 2-4 times per week is what I'd suggest. If you're unsure what any exercise is, or have questions about anything, just ask. I don't want to get TOO long winded in this post, so I won't go into great detail here, but I can if needed/wanted. 

There are several ways that you can perform these workouts, depending upon time constraints or simple preference. Any questions, simply ask.

Doing 10's for reps isn't magical. You can pick any number between 6-15 and you'll be good. Can even be different reps for different exercises.

Just use simple linear progression. When you can get 3 sets of whatever rep number you choose, go up in weight the next time. If you don't have extra weights, get some. Until then, add a rep to the number you were doing for the following workout. Eventually you will need more weight though, as you can only increase reps so much before it's not ideal.

A great option for cardio would be farmer's carries. In its simplest form, simply pick up a pair of dumbells and go for a walk with good posture. Can be short heavy intervals, or longer with lighter weight. Mix it up.

For the OPTIONAL accessory work, pick an exercise that you really like for whatever muscle(s) you want to train, and do a few tough sets with that. Do whatever is fun for you, nothing here is required, mostly just to keep you engaged and it to be fun. No neck training though.


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## johnjohn (Sep 6, 2021)

Thank You, CJ275. You are very kind to help me out with such detailed training. I appreciate your time and it will not go to waste. Meantime, do you have any suggestions for nutrition?

edit: i didn't research neck training consequences so i didn't know that. I just wanted a bigger neck. My neck was rather skinny and i didn't like the wimpy appearance of it. I will stop training it.


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## Send0 (Sep 6, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> Thank You, CJ275. You are very kind to help me out with such detailed training. I appreciate your time and it will not go to waste. Meantime, do you have any suggestions for nutrition?
> 
> edit: i didn't research neck training consequences so i didn't know that. I just wanted a bigger neck. My neck was rather skinny and i didn't like the wimpy appearance of it. I will stop training it.


Your neck will gain mass as you train.


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## CJ (Sep 6, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> ... Meantime, do you have any suggestions for nutrition?


Good place to start.... 

The 2 most important things are to hit your calorie target, based upon your goal, and to consume an adequate amount protein. About 2 grams per kg of bodyweight is a good target. If you don't count calories or protein, there's other ways to accomplish the task, just not quite as accurate, but it'll do just fine. I've used this easy method with several people who've liked its simplicity. It's grest for single food meals, but it's limited for mixed food meals like a stew for example... "The Best Calorie Control Guide [Infographic] | Precision Nutrition" https://www.precisionnutrition.com/calorie-control-guide-infographic

Eat between 3-6 meals per day, with the protein spread out somewhat evenly throughout those meals. 

Whole real food sources are the best option, as they provide a good supply of nutrients. Supplements are just supplements, not the primary foods. 

More than likely bananas are not a problem for you, or the vast majority of people, so take those Men's Journal articles with a hearty grain of salt. 😉


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## CJ (Sep 6, 2021)

Neither the workout nor the nutrition info are perfect, but they're appropriate. They'll get you going in the right direction with a little wind to your back.


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## OldeBull1 (Sep 6, 2021)

Nothing much to add, CJ275 did you right.

At your stage of training, just put in consistent effort, don't worry about the little things. Given your age, you'll need to keep moderation in mind, don't over do it like a 20 year old.

Lastly,  don't be so hard on yourself. Sure, you're no bodybuilder, but nobody cares. You're bettering yourself and that's what matters. As long as you stay humble, nobody here will laugh at you.

Train hard, stay well.


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## johnjohn (Sep 6, 2021)

OldeBull1 said:


> Lastly,  don't be so hard on yourself. Sure, you're no bodybuilder, but nobody cares. You're bettering yourself and that's what matters. As long as you stay humble, nobody here will laugh at you.



I'm not the type of person that thinks my progress warrants attitude.

even if i looked like a jacked up pro wrestler i wouldn't strut around like a gorilla trying to rule the kingdom. I'm not that type of guy. In fact, as i grow muscle, i try to be less obvious in society. I have no reason to advertise an invitation for trouble. Humbleness is much more my style.


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## johnjohn (Sep 7, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Day A:
> DB Goblet Squats 3x10
> DB Walking Lunges 3x10 each side
> DB Neutral Grip Row, keep elbows close 3x10
> ...



Hi, yesterday was a recovery day from my old routine. Today was Day A from your routine. I'm whipped! my body is sore. I tried my best to make the mind muscle connection and add my best effort. I'm exhausted.

i really felt those goblet squats. I need to pay more attention to my legs.

Thanks alot


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## CJ (Sep 7, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> Hi, yesterday was a recovery day from my old routine. Today was Day A from your routine. I'm whipped! my body is sore. I tried my best to make the mind muscle connection and add my best effort. I'm exhausted.
> 
> i really felt those goblet squats. I need to pay more attention to my legs.
> 
> Thanks alot


If you're still sore the next time you train, only do 1 set. I should've told you to build up to that.

Ideally you'll have a day off between workouts, so MWF or simply every other day. If that doesn't work for you, it's an easy fix.


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## johnjohn (Sep 7, 2021)

okay. Thanks. I think it is normal soreness, nothing exaggerated. My back is a bit sore from the deadlifts but it feels like a normal muscle workout. I usually drink a magnesium powder before bed and i wake up feeling better. Plus i stretch alot. I'll see how it feels tomorrow. I like the MWF approach. It works for me.

Thank you very much and Best Wishes,
John


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## johnjohn (Sep 10, 2021)

So i completed day B yesterday. I screwed up and did deadlifts on Day A, so yesterday i did the bench presses. Sorry about that. I must've had deadlifts on my mind when i scanned the lists. Anyway, soreness went away. I had a bit of trouble with the dumbell overhand grip rows. I struggled a bit with form. I've never done these before but i think that i got it right. My longhead triceps are weak and a bit sore from this exercise. I need to target these longheads in isolation exercises for strengthening i guess.

Best wishes,
John


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## CJ (Sep 10, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> So i completed day B yesterday. I screwed up and did deadlifts on Day A, so yesterday i did the bench presses. Sorry about that. I must've had deadlifts on my mind when i scanned the lists. Anyway, soreness went away. I had a bit of trouble with the dumbell overhand grip rows. I struggled a bit with form. I've never done these before but i think that i got it right. My longhead triceps are weak and a bit sore from this exercise. I need to target these longheads in isolation exercises for strengthening i guess.
> 
> Best wishes,
> John


The overhand grip DB Rows shouldn't hit your triceps, it's an upper back exercise. Here's a video of some random dude doing them pretty well though. He explains the elbows in vs out and arm angle pretty well. 

Doesn't necessarily have to  be at that exact angle, or even supported on a bench, although it helps.


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## johnjohn (Sep 10, 2021)

interesting. i feel that i did them correctly based upon this video. Although, i was standing. I thought that maybe i was flexing my triceps during the squeeze. Perhaps the triceps are still sore from my triceps exercise accessory workout from Day A. I need to think about lowering the weight whenever i perform those exercises. I don't the name of the exercise but you hold a dumbell with both hands behind the head. lower the dumbell then raise it to full extension flexing the tricpes. I think that this exercise could be the reason that my triceps are sore. I usually begin training a muscle or muscle group with 10 pounds. I used 30 pounds for the triceps exercise, so maybe a bit much. sorry.


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## CJ (Sep 10, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> interesting. i feel that i did them correctly based upon this video. Although, i was standing. I thought that maybe i was flexing my triceps during the squeeze. Perhaps the triceps are still sore from my triceps exercise accessory workout from Day A. I need to think about lowering the weight whenever i perform those exercises. I don't the name of the exercise but you hold a dumbell with both hands behind the head. lower the dumbell then raise it to full extension flexing the tricpes. I think that this exercise could be the reason that my triceps are sore. I usually begin training a muscle or muscle group with 10 pounds. I used 30 pounds for the triceps exercise, so maybe a bit much. sorry.


Those are called DB Overhead Tricep Extensions. No fancy name.

That's an exercise which can bother some people, so play around with arm and torso angles to find which one feels the best for you.

Elbows out at about a 45° angle are pretty good, so the movement is almost like you're pulling a sword or arrow out from behind your back.


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## johnjohn (Sep 10, 2021)

Thank you CJ275, i appreciate the wisdom. I like your description of the exercise relating it to pulling a sword or arrow out from behind your back. Very nice description.

Bset wishes,
John


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## JuiceTrain (Sep 10, 2021)

So many words, letters, and paragraphs....I can't 
Juicey out...✌🏾


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## johnjohn (Sep 13, 2021)

JuiceTrain said:


> So many words, letters, and paragraphs....I can't
> Juicey out...✌🏾



what? my original question is vague?

11 inch arms = need to get bigger. i've never trained = newbie.
started 15kg dumbell curls 20 reps 3 sets.
my biceps showed gains over three weeks of isolation curls.
i was vaccinated against corona so i had to rest 5 days.
started lifting again and i could only perform 6 reps using 15kg dumbells.
seems like i lost strength.

how can i go from 20 reps failure to six reps failure using the same weight?

anyway, i just read about deloading so maybe my biceps are not fully recovered and i'm working them too much?

meantime, i got my 11 inch arms up to 13.25 inches.


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## JuiceTrain (Sep 13, 2021)

Ah yes...layman's 🧐
Much better...


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## Send0 (Sep 13, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> what? my original question is vague?
> 
> 11 inch arms = need to get bigger. i've never trained = newbie.
> started 15kg dumbell curls 20 reps 3 sets.
> ...


Just curious what your height and weight is? I only have 14" arms, and I'm one of the smaller dudes on here.

Anyway, great job getting up to 13.25". Is that with a pump, or was that measured first thing in the morning when you were still flat for the day?


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## johnjohn (Sep 13, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Just curious what your height and weight is? I only have 14" arms, and I'm one of the smaller dudes on here.
> 
> Anyway, great job getting up to 13.25". Is that with a pump, or was that measured first thing in the morning when you were still flat for the day?



Hi Send0, height = 5'11'' and weight = 160 pounds.

pump in July 2021 = 11 inches.
Started lifting around August 06, 2021. missed a week in August due to vaccination.

pump today = 13.25 inches. flat in the morning 12 inches (so i guess in July flat was 10 inches?)

i lost alot of weight and what little muscle that i had in my arms from three operations.

i'm sorry for not being more specific regarding the measurements.


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## Send0 (Sep 13, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> Hi Send0, height = 5'11'' and weight = 160 pounds.
> 
> pump in July 2021 = 11 inches.
> Started lifting around August 06, 2021. missed a week in August due to vaccination.
> ...


No need to apologize man, this is good information.

I am currently 168lbs this morning @ 5'8" tall. So your measurements make more sense to me now given your height and weight.

My 14" is flat... I'm not sure how big they are with a pump... maybe 15" if I'm lucky? 

I work arms twice a week. For biceps specifically, I really enjoy the following. I don't do them all..  I'll split them and do half for one arm work out, and half later in the week when I work arms again.

Preacher curls
Spider curls
Lying cable curls
Hammer curls
Reverse curls
Hammer curls
21's to burn out biceps at end


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## Send0 (Sep 13, 2021)

I also use a wrist roller that mounts onto my rack; this builds the forearms, but the muscles being built can make the biceps appear to have a slightly better peak. It also helps to improve your grip strength, which can help you curl even more weight.

Plus having huge biceps with tiny t-rex forearms would just look silly  😂


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## johnjohn (Sep 13, 2021)

i found this forum and joined/registered the same day. i started my workout plan by searching youtube for videos with queries such as biceps training, triceps training et cetera. I found a channel named athleanx and a guy named Ryan Humiston. I followed their instructions and started lifting with 7.5 kg dumbbells.

actually, here is the video that i used for my biceps training:





then I watched a video by Ryan that mentioned preacher curls and concentration curls. so I started doing those trying to maintain the mind muscle connection and not allowing my shoulders and forearms to do the work.

I also added reverse curls and hammer curls. I think that maybe my brachialis is growing a bit to give my biceps a boost. I'm still on the skinny side but at least now i have some baby biceps growing.


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## johnjohn (Sep 13, 2021)

ps i do not have body building friends. i know nothing about this process. i don't always like to post here because i don't want to annoy any members with newbie questions and such.

anyway, i researched lifting and increasing muscle size before i started lifting. I read that muscles need protein so i also started using whey protein isolate premium grade before/pre and after/post workout.


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## Send0 (Sep 13, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> ps i do not have body building friends. i know nothing about this process. i don't always like to post here because i don't want to annoy any members with newbie questions and such.
> 
> anyway, i researched lifting and increasing muscle size before i started lifting. I read that muscles need protein so i also started using whey protein isolate premium grade before/pre and after/post workout.


Brother, we're here to help each other. Don't worry about annoying anyone... I mean it's going to happen with a bunch of dudes on anabolics no matter what you do, but at the same time we all remember what it was like to be new.

Do your research, but don't be afraid to use us to confirm/validate what you found. That's why we're all here after all.


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## johnjohn (Sep 13, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I work arms twice a week. For biceps specifically, I really enjoy the following. I don't do them all..  I'll split them and do half for one arm work out, and half later in the week when I work arms again.
> 
> Preacher curls
> Spider curls
> ...



i also work arms twice per week in isolation exercises. I do all of those in your list except cable curls and 21s because i don't have cable machines and i only have a pair of dumbells that max out at 40kg total. i try to use my 99 pound resistance band for cable like exercises. I'm trying to save money for more dumbells and a barbell.

for now, i made my own barbell. LOL. i used a broom stick made of metal as a bar. I max out my dumbells and attach them to the broom stick using my resistannce band. LOL. I'm trying to add more weight to shock my biceps into growing more. Arnold Schwarzenegger said to shock them so i try to shock them and keep them guessing.

i usually do 60 reps of each exercise that you mentioned over 3 sets and now i add barbell 40 reps 2 sets. I try to finish arms with standing barbell presses for front delts 20 reps and sumbell shrugs for traps 20 sets. by the end of the 1.5 hours, i'm exhausted. i drink my whey protein, eat a can of tuna, swallow a zinc supplement and nap for two hours.


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## Send0 (Sep 13, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> i also work arms twice per week in isolation exercises. I do all of those in your list except cable curls and 21s because i don't have cable machines and i only have a pair of dumbells that max out at 40kg total. i try to use my 99 pound resistance band for cable like exercises. I'm trying to save money for more dumbells and a barbell.
> 
> for now, i made my own barbell. LOL. i used a broom stick made of metal as a bar. I max out my dumbells and attach them to the broom stick using my resistannce band. LOL. I'm trying to add more weight to shock my biceps into growing more. Arnold Schwarzenegger said to shock them so i try to shock them and keep them guessing.
> 
> i usually do 60 reps of each exercise that you mentioned over 3 sets and now i add barbell 40 reps 2 sets. I try to finish arms with standing barbell presses for front delts 20 reps and sumbell shrugs for traps 20 sets. by the end of the 1.5 hours, i'm exhausted. i drink my whey protein, eat a can of tuna, swallow a zinc supplement and nap for two hours.


Just remember that you can make any exercise harder without increasing the weight. Simply go slower on the eccentric/negative portion on the rep. If you want a hard core pump try a 4-1-1 tempo... 1 second concentric, 0.5 - 1 second pause at top, 4 second eccentric/negatives.

You could also try doing giant sets... where you do as many reps as you can, and then take a 5-8 second break, and then do as many reps as you can again..  repeat for at least 3 sets, preferably 5 sets.

There are all kinds of variation you can do to make an exercise harder. With that said, this only works for so long and eventually you will n the d mor weight, but at your current level its a good way to progress until then.


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## johnjohn (Sep 13, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Brother, we're here to help each other. Don't worry about annoying anyone... I mean it's going to happen with a bunch of dudes on anabolics no matter what you do, but at the same time we all remember what it was like to be new.
> 
> Do your research, but don't be afraid to use us to confirm/validate what you found. That's why we're all here after all.



i will definitely make use of this forum. everyone seems to be very helful and i'm just trying to fit in somewhere without stepping on any toes. kind of hiding in the shadows a bit but not in a spooky or private eye sort of way. LOL. I'm just trying not to be annoying in anyway.

Thanks for being open minded and helpful. I appreciate it very much. it's like having a big brother in a way.


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## Send0 (Sep 13, 2021)

johnjohn said:


> i will definitely make use of this forum. everyone seems to be very helful and i'm just trying to fit in somewhere without stepping on any toes. kind of hiding in the shadows a bit but not in a spooky or private eye sort of way. LOL. I'm just trying not to be annoying in anyway.
> 
> Thanks for being open minded and helpful. I appreciate it very much. it's like having a big brother in a way.


Like I said, most of us are on PEDs. Stepping on someone's toes is likely to happen when you don't even expect it, and probably when you've done nothing wrong 😂.

Don't sweat the small stuff... you're part of us now as far as I'm concerned. Be active, ask questions, don't worry about how others might respond. 

Anyway keep killing it! I enjoy seeing guys who actively are doing what they can to make progress. You're on a good path, and everyone nat the underground will help you when you need it. 😎


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## johnjohn (Sep 14, 2021)

Thank You Send0.

I do need to correct some stats from my earlier post regarding arm measurements.
my flex is 13.25 inches. my pump (the swell after lifting?) is 13.43 inches. flat in the morning 12 inches.

furthermore, when i say 60 reps, i really mean 10 6 4 per set.
so left arm 10 reps, right arm 10 reps, 60 seconds rest.
left arm 6 reps, right arm 6 reps, 60 second rest.
left arm 4 reps, right arm 4 reps, 60 second rest.
end of set 1 for preacher curls.

sorry. my brain is not always participating...

edit: also, these are now accessory to the plan set forth by CJ275. I now follow his plan then do my isolation accessory lifts.


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