# advice for unsupervised trt



## goesto11 (Aug 13, 2013)

Test results were 237 ng/dL. Doc wasn't willing to put me on hrt. Uninsured so it doesn't matter. 
This is a very rough draft of my plan. 
Sustanon250 @250mg e7d - less pinning/mix of esters sounds appealing
arimidex on hand in case of sides - .25 eod or .5 e3d only if I have sides or the blood work shows high e
nolva in case the unthinkable and need to pct
hcg - ?
clomid - ?

28 yo 5'11 175lbs 15%bf 
training 4 days a week and doing cardio/stretching 3 other days. Very meticulous about what I eat: weighing everything and counting macros/calories
I don't drink/smoke and I don't use any recreational drugs. Never taken any aas.

Should I be using a different ester?
I was thinking 250mg a wk for some gains (I'd like to get up to 185) and the high test levels for that "sense of well being". on paper somewhere between 1200-1500? It seems like a lot of gents on here have been able to hit that range on trt.
I'm also concerned about the family jewels: I will probably want to have kids sometime in the next decade. I've only read about using HCG at the end of a blast, but if you're on test all year, how much/often should you be getting to protect the guys?
I've read all Cashout's stickies. I don't understand the breakdown of his exit protocol with the drugs because of the way it's typed out.
Tell me bluntly why this is all wrong and I'm stupid. 
Thanks


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## Yaya (Aug 13, 2013)

you need to do more pushups


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 13, 2013)

And eat more lettuce. Ruffage is the way to get better test levels.


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## creekrat (Aug 13, 2013)

I heard that shaving your cat really helps too


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 13, 2013)

15% u got fat bro ..what happened to 10%?


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 13, 2013)

Brother Bundy said:


> 15% u got fat bro ..what happened to 10%?



Too much cat meat


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## mistah187 (Aug 13, 2013)

20%, too much peanut butter


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## juuced (Aug 13, 2013)

hcg at 500iu per week as a minimum to keep balls working.  Most TRT docs recomend taking this hcg once a week for the entire TRT treament which for most is for life.

the shit worked for me.  Was on TRT for over two years and took hcg and got my girl knocked up.  Im a old fart at 45 yr old.

good luck.


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## goesto11 (Aug 14, 2013)

juuced said:


> hcg at 500iu per week as a minimum to keep balls working.  Most TRT docs recomend taking this hcg once a week for the entire TRT treament which for most is for life.
> 
> the shit worked for me.  Was on TRT for over two years and took hcg and got my girl knocked up.  Im a old fart at 45 yr old.
> 
> good luck.



You were on HCG throughout the entire treatment?


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## goesto11 (Aug 15, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> And eat more lettuce. Ruffage is the way to get better test levels.


what I wouldn't give for some of Popeye's human grade spinach...


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 15, 2013)

In all seriousness... 

My test levels were at 236 last time I came off. I cruise on 200 to 300 of test e.  I blast as needed - usually as I approach a competition.  My dose is based on how I feel, how my strength is, libido etc.  Male characteristics. 

you can monitor your own blood work at privatemdlabs.

Use aromasin, not adex to control estrogen. HCG should be used at 250iu twice per week. I use HCG the day after my shot of test. But for whatever reason around 10 weeks or so, the hcg seems to stop doing its thing? Its for more than just keeping your grapes plump. I think I posted it here, but SHINE (rest in peace) posted an article on HCG's importance in balancing neurological chemicals. I find it helps my mood greatly.

Because its self prescribed you have some leeway... If you have joint issues, add in some Deca at 75 to 100mg weekly.  For fun toss in an oral for a few weeks.


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## goesto11 (Aug 15, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> In all seriousness...
> 
> My test levels were at 236 last time I came off. I cruise on 200 to 300 of test e.  I blast as needed - usually as I approach a competition.  My dose is based on how I feel, how my strength is, libido etc.  Male characteristics.
> 
> ...



Is test e your personal preference or scrip? Sust seems to get very mixed reviews...
"Use aromasin, not adex" ok
"around 10 weeks or so, the hcg seems to stop doing its thing?"
nuts shrink, mood change? what do you do when this happens?


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 15, 2013)

goesto11 said:


> Is test e your personal preference or scrip? Sust seems to get very mixed reviews...
> "Use aromasin, not adex" ok
> "around 10 weeks or so, the hcg seems to stop doing its thing?"
> nuts shrink, mood change? what do you do when this happens?



I have a shitload of Test e so its what I use. Plus twice weekly pins I'm ok with. Injecting gets old when you do it year round. Hell some weeks I'll just shoot 500 one day and run that for the whole week just cause I don't feel like pinning again later.  I used it because its a moderate length ester.

After 10 weeks of HCG use, I stop using it for a couple months then go back on.


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## Big Worm (Aug 15, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> I think I posted it here, but SHINE (rest in peace) posted an article on HCG's importance in balancing neurological chemicals. I find it helps my mood greatly.



Thats no shit.  I havent heard many people talk about that part of hcg, maybe they just arent as fucked up as me, but I was happier than I have been in a long fucking time when I was running hcg in pct.


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## goesto11 (Aug 15, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> I have a shitload of Test e so its what I use. Plus twice weekly pins I'm ok with. Injecting gets old when you do it year round. Hell some weeks I'll just shoot 500 one day and run that for the whole week just cause I don't feel like pinning again later.  I used it because its a moderate length ester.
> 
> After 10 weeks of HCG use, I stop using it for a couple months then go back on.



"shoot 500 one day...don't feel like pinning again later"
I have read that so many times about test. When you cruise, do you feel better splitting up the shots or do you feel alright doing a larger injection--200 or 300--once a week?
Got my sust in the mail and pct kit (nolva, arim --still looking for hcg/arom supplier) 
Guess baby will be doing his first pin tonight.


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## regular (Aug 15, 2013)

goesto11 said:


> "shoot 500 one day...don't feel like pinning again later"
> I have read that so many times about test. When you cruise,* do you feel better splitting up the shots or do you feel alright doing a larger injection--200 or 300--once a week?*
> Got my sust in the mail and pct kit (nolva, arim --still looking for hcg/arom supplier)
> *Guess baby will be doing his first pin tonight.*



I use test c once a week. Although the volume of free testosterone in the bloodstream is more consistent with more frequent injections the benefit doesn't outweigh having to give myself more shots. I would only use more than one shot of test c in a week if I were exceeding 3ml/ew. 

Follow the instructions in the safe injections techniques guide:


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## goesto11 (Aug 16, 2013)

regular said:


> I use test c once a week. Although the volume of free testosterone in the bloodstream is more consistent with more frequent injections the benefit doesn't outweigh having to give myself more shots. I would only use more than one shot of test c in a week if I were exceeding 3ml/ew.
> 
> Follow the instructions in the safe injections techniques guide:


3ml @ what concentration?
since I'm using a UGL, I was thinking about getting a 300mg per 1mL test-e @ about 90% purity. That would put me closer to a true 250mg per week.


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## PFM (Aug 16, 2013)

regular said:


> I use test c once a week. Although the volume of free testosterone in the bloodstream is more consistent with more frequent injections the benefit doesn't outweigh having to give myself more shots. I would only use more than one shot of test c in a week if I were exceeding 3ml/ew.
> 
> Follow the instructions in the safe injections techniques guide:



I also use a E7D injection schedule simply to reduce the buildup of scar tissue. My E2 climbs every other week, one 12.5mg Stane and my peanut butter **** sock looks quite sexy all over again.


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## goesto11 (Aug 16, 2013)

PFM said:


> I also use a E7D injection schedule simply to reduce the buildup of scar tissue. My E2 climbs every other week, one 12.5mg Stane and my peanut butter fuck sock looks quite sexy all over again.


didn't even think about scar tissue. Thanks for pointing that out.
Just one 12.5mg eow?


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## juuced (Aug 16, 2013)

goesto11 said:


> You were on HCG throughout the entire treatment?



yes - have been on the HCG for the enitre time.

as far as scar tissue goes.  I rotate injection sites constantly to limit scar tissue.   I take two shots per week Monday and Thurs.

I rotate glutes, ventro glute, thighs, and delts.  thats 8 total sites.   I dont think I have to worry about scar tissue.


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## regular (Aug 16, 2013)

goesto11 said:


> 3ml @ what concentration?
> since I'm using a UGL, I was thinking about getting a 300mg per 1mL test-e @ about 90% purity. That would put me closer to a true 250mg per week.



The product I used last was 250mg/ml.

I prefer test c over e because I like to inject less frequently. The cypionate ester only has one additional carbon so the molecular weight is almost the same as the ethanate ester. 

How are you determining the purity of the product you intend to use is only 90%?



PFM said:


> I also use a E7D injection schedule simply to reduce the buildup of scar tissue. My E2 climbs every other week, one 12.5mg Stane and my peanut butter fuck sock looks quite sexy all over again.



Yeah, same here unless I'm using another compound like tren which needs a more frequent injection schedule. 



goesto11 said:


> didn't even think about scar tissue. Thanks for pointing that out.
> Just one 12.5mg eow?



A lot of guys use 12.5mg/eod. I was using 25mg/eod during the last cycle I ran.


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## goesto11 (Aug 17, 2013)

regular said:


> The product I used last was 250mg/ml.
> 
> I prefer test c over e because I like to inject less frequently. The cypionate ester only has one additional carbon so the molecular weight is almost the same as the ethanate ester.
> 
> ...



UGL I'm talking to sent me lab reports for test-e batch. Seems legit, but it could be total bullshit. Trying to get on GH15 and build rep but it's hard to get signed up.

>12.5mg/eod
I've heard of that, but he made it sound like he only needed one dose @ 12.5mg eow and he is gtg.

Pinned dorsal glute for first time yesterday. Quite a bit of pip today. Will get labs in 4 weeks.


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## goesto11 (Aug 20, 2013)

Having a lot of joint pain. Been taking Fish Oil capsules 2x1000mg and drinking water. Shoulders, elbows, wrists, knees, ankles. 
Anything else I need to add?


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## regular (Aug 20, 2013)

goesto11 said:


> Having a lot of joint pain. Been taking Fish Oil capsules 2x1000mg and drinking water. Shoulders, elbows, wrists, knees, ankles.
> Anything else I need to add?



Reduce the amount of aromatase inhibitor you're using.


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## goesto11 (Aug 20, 2013)

regular said:


> Reduce the amount of aromatase inhibitor you're using.



I hadn't taken any AI. I'm waiting for sides to appear before I start doing that. Probably like PFM suggested using .5mg adex (all I got) eod for 1 week. I think I was a little dehydrated. Drank 5L yesterday and aside from some post WO DOMS--which is new--joints feel ok. The more active I am, the better my joints feel.
Only issues I'm having now is some pip which was at its worst yesterday--5/10 pain when I laid down directly on it in bed--and my libido seems lower. Most mornings I wake up fully torqued but the past couple it's just rubbery.
Appetite is definitely not up for some reason. I got 2537 calories in thanks to a 500cal fat shake with cottage chz, almond butter and raw eggs right before bed. I was stuffed.


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## regular (Aug 20, 2013)

goesto11 said:


> I hadn't taken any AI. I'm waiting for sides to appear before I start doing that. Probably like PFM suggested using .5mg adex (all I got) eod for 1 week. I think I was a little dehydrated. Drank 5L yesterday and aside from some post WO DOMS--which is new--joints feel ok. The more active I am, the better my joints feel.
> Only issues I'm having now is some pip which was at its worst yesterday--5/10 pain when I laid down directly on it in bed--and my libido seems lower. Most mornings I wake up fully torqued but the past couple it's just rubbery.
> Appetite is definitely not up for some reason. I got 2537 calories in thanks to a 500cal fat shake with cottage chz, almond butter and raw eggs right before bed. I was stuffed.



Maybe you're just sore. The only time I've had pain in all of my joints at the same time was when I was using too much AI. 

I would have front loaded 500mg on my first shot and backed it down to 250mg the following week. How confident are you in the product you're using?


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## goesto11 (Aug 20, 2013)

regular said:


> Maybe you're just sore. The only time I've had pain in all of my joints at the same time was when I was using too much AI.
> 
> I would have front loaded 500mg on my first shot and backed it down to 250mg the following week. How confident are you in the product you're using?


I don't get sore is the thing, which is why I thought it was a side. 
50/50. Wasn't at the top of the rating list (or near it) and the very few reviews he did get seemed legit. Figured with how little attention the site draws and how it frequently closes (catching up on orders?) it was my best chance at not getting jacked. 
I did front load. 250mg then another 3 days later. Not liking the way it makes me feel and my last 2 workouts have been very lack luster.


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## Yaya (Aug 20, 2013)

Rowdybrad should have some great advice..he is a supermod...


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