# The profile of elite bodybuilders & powerlifters: A POB & Zilla perspective



## MrRippedZilla (Aug 29, 2016)

*The profile of elite bodybuilders & powerlifters: A POB & Zilla perspective*

So originally, this article was going to illustrate some of the commonalities shared by elite bodybuilders (competitors, naturals with pro cards, those who make a living based on their physiques, etc) based on the data I've been able to collect, and analyze, over the years coaching these athletes. 
Then I decided that it would be a good idea to get POB to chime in as well since he works with more powerlifters then I ever will and is in a much better position to give is 2 cents on that side of the spectrum. 

Nothing too detailed here, just us giving our opinions on a variety of things - enjoy.


*Let's start with background and personal attributes - what do the elite have in common? Are there any differences between the sexes?*

*POB:*
The clients I prefer to work with most are people who have a competitive background in any sport. 
I’ve found wrestlers to be some of the greatest mental warriors come meet day and all through their training cycle. They all have the same sort of quiet rage inside of them. Appearing totally composed with no outward signs of aggression. But really any competitive sport will do, from field hockey to football to volleyball. The desire to win, the competitive mindset can carry the body to do amazing things.

Other aspects of the athlete’s life come into play as well. Most notably, integrity. 
If you feel as though you are a worthless piece of garbage because of some unethical behavior, you will generally feel worthless as a competitor. Now I know we see examples that would call my opinion into question such as professional athletes beating women, dog fighting, murdering etc… But it’s just from what I’ve seen out of my own athletes. 
People that live a solid respectable lifestyle tend to fair better by my own observations. Those with much turmoil like divorce, or criminal behavior are often so preoccupied by their personal dramas that they are unable to detach and focus.

Bodybuilders, not necessarily competitive bodybuilders, but just those that began lifting simply to get bigger muscles often do quite well. It requires less work on my part with these individuals because we don’t have to do so much remedial hypertrophy work while also attempting to build a competition lift. A man or woman with a strong upper back for example from a year to years of building those muscles will make faster progress on their competition lifts.

I have not noticed a difference between males and females in this regard at all. 
If anything, the females tend to “size each other up” more frequently, then point to one and say “her, I want to beat her.” 


*Zilla:*
The top competitors tend to start bodybuilding very early on, at least college level, and peak quickly in there mid 20s - genetics plays a major role here since its not a common sight to see people in their mid 20s having reached/gotten close to their genetic limits of muscle mass. 
The reasoning most have for getting into bodybuilding is, as you'd aspect, narcissistic in nature. Whether that's to impressive the opposite sex, to impress the same sex (more so with women), to appear "tough", etc - it starts off with a selfish reason and continues along the same path throughout. 

When it comes to personality traits, a strong work ethic coupled with consistent application is a given. Combine this with accountability (I tend to find the top competitors rarely make excuses for anything) and patience (this is a long term lifestyle) and you end up with a pretty good profile of an elite bodybuilder. 

In terms of differences between the sexes, I find that women cross the line from being dedicated to becoming obsessed.
Many of the high level guys are able to juggle bodybuilding with the family, social and work (sometimes multiple jobs) part of their lives with relatively ease. They are able to remain focused without losing sight of the bigger picture that shows that bodybuilding is just one aspect of their lives. 
Women on the other hand have a much more meticulous attitude and tend to sacrifice other areas of their lives in order to do well in bodybuilding. They develop an eat, sleep, train, repeat pattern that stretches to the point of looking for work that fits in this lifestyle (PT, modelling, fitness journalism, etc). They spend their free time researching & discussing nutrition, training, supplementation and anything else related to this lifestyle. 
Bodybuilding becomes life for them. 


*Talking nutrition & OTC supps*

*POB:*
Women frustrate me to no end when it comes to diet during meet prep and off season. 
Not by any fault of their own at all. They often don’t tolerate carbohydrate quantities in the amount I prefer. I’m a big believer in a diet that is generally 50 to 60% CHO and for good reason. We are purely anaerobic athletes. We aren’t going to use fats much at all during training as it’s just too inefficient for the body. But they bloat and they get pissed at me. So we work and find a balance and it works out in the end. 
But I rarely see this from the men. They can shovel rice and poptarts like there is no tomorrow. 
Both tend to adhere quite well, but that gets into the mental attitude and how important is this goal to them. 

Supplement use is not something I really get into with my clients. 
I prefer we just stick to whole foods, make sure they get a variety of foods in and just live within a balanced diet. 
Supplements tend to be useless for people who can accomplish this. There are some who simply refuse to eat vegetables, myself included. 
So as what you may call a supplement I recommend to them and drink myself a line of v8 juices that are fantastic and cheap such as the healthy greens or purple passion I think its called? 
No added sugars which helps keep the whole food volume up and reduces periods of hunger when cutting down. In full disclosure though, I hate supplements. I hate supplement companies. I hate their misleading studies and outright lies that they tell. They have the public so confused about what to eat and how they NEED these supplements to survive and thrive that it makes me sick. I spend every minute I can combating these myths with anyone who will listen to me about it.


*Zilla:*
During the off-season most of my clients follow a cyclical diet that involves incorporating a small caloric surplus over 4-8 weeks, followed by a 2 week maintenance period, and then if necessary a small 4-8 week deficit depending on how everything looks bodycomp wise. 
This helps keep bodyfat gain to a minimum year round (my guys start prep at 12-13% max, girls at 18-19%), which makes the upcoming prep much easier (and shorter) and allows us to "grow" into a show. 

Macro ratios vary depending on the type of training and TDEE of the athlete (this varies quit a bit even at the top) but for a pro level, natural, male we're looking at...
Off season: 1g/lb protein, 2-2.3g/lb carbs, 0.3g/lb fats
Prep: 1.1-1.15g/lb protein, 0.85-1g/lb carbs, 0.25g/lb fats with cals manipulated based on progress (sometimes we go slow & steady all the way, other times we start hard and slow it down to a crawl by the end, etc).
The protein intake is higher than what you'll usually see recommended for most people but, again, these aren't "most" people - these are elite bodybuilders. 

For enhanced guys it's 10-20% higher on protein for the off-season with no change during prep. 
Women tend to have more things going on - BC methods, menstrual cycles, etc - and their nutrition tends to be periodized as much as possible to take all of this into account. In general, we're looking at slightly lower carbs & protein and higher fats. 

I should mention that I usually base things off LBM rather than total weight but since its impossible to get an accurate, regular, measurement without significant investment on the clients part - I usually have athletes do a dexa scan at their off season peak and readjust things based off the data from there - we follow lb weight the rest of the time. 

Outside of creatine, fish oil and a multivit I usually don't recommend any other supps. A creatine non-responder is rare at this level, fish oil is good for you and a multivit helps cover our bases during prep.
I will mention that, even at the elite level, my clients do maintain the annoying habit of "testing out" BS supplements throughout the year. It's a huge waste of money but as long its not harmful I tend to just let them get it out of their system.


*Cardio: its role in prepping for a meet/show*

*POB:*
Generally meet prep or the peaking cycle begins with me at 12 weeks out. Mostly because that’s what people can usually afford. Which is fine. 
Cardio is only added in depending on the athletes conditioning level. If it’s taking them over three hours to get thru their training day, clearly they are sucking wind. Time to hit some cardio. 

For powerlifting purposes, I see absolutely no use for low intensity steady state cardio. It’s always high intensity anaerobic endurance. 
If the athlete has the equipment I prefer sled drags or prowlers. Without that equipment, sprints are just fine by me.  We can also incorporate this for active recovery days. 

Women tend to fair better with more endurance training in their program. On their days off from lifting it seems to both help as active recovery but it keeps their muscles working day to day. Time off for females often results in a step backwards. Their bodies seem unwilling to maintain strength levels or muscularity with time off.


*Zilla:*
My philosophy on cardio is to avoid it as much as possible - I've had enough athletes do well to know that its simply not necessary for bodycomp purposes.
On the rare occasion that I do recommend it, we're talking about the LISS variety due to the lower impact on recovery capacity BUT I do find that HIIT works well for the elite competitors (genetics again, the top guys/girls tend to be natural athletes and what they do isn't what 99% of everyone else should be doing). 

I should mention that women tend to have different substrate utilization levels compared to men that translates to much better recovery capacity even from high intensity cardio. This, along with the fact that the impact on SNS activation/lipolysis/mitochondrial activity & density to increase fat oxidation/ etc is higher for women, is why HIIT does a pretty good job at targeting those stubborn fat stores. 
I find that my girls find a visible benefit to incorporating HIIT 2-3x week even deep into prep - pretty much the opposite for guys. 


*Differences between the sexes when it comes to training, nutrition, cardio, etc in both application & attitude*

*POB:*
Women tend to be more willing to do cardio when I call for it. However, I don’t tolerate whining from either sex so it gets done and I don’t care how miserable the men are doing it. 

Diet I already discussed above, its more about dedication to a goal rather than the gender. Although men tend to get away with a bit more nutritional sin than the women do. 

A significant amount of my time in the gym is spent on getting people out of pain. 
When you are repeatedly practicing your completion lifts and working in the same plane repeatedly your body will sort of close in on itself. These are essentially imbalances. When this occurs the body compensates and injuries both chronic and acute develop. I think fortunately for me I got into this game after guys like Donnie Thompson and Kelly Starrett made being mobile cool. I still laugh when I see the older guys who can barely walk, making fun of us for addressing our ranges of motion and positioning. 

The difference between the sexes here lies in that men can create an imbalance very quickly, but while women take longer to create them, it takes them much longer to get out of it. This I assume is simply because men can build muscle faster.


*Zilla:*
Quite a few interesting differences.

Training volume tends to be a lot more pre-planned for women and things don't change much come prep time (men in comparison reduce volume quite a bit).

Women tend to be more proactive in addressing their weaknesses. Whether that's unilateral leg work, prehab strengthening of the lower traps/rotator cuff/medial delts or working on the glute mind-muscle connection (these tend to be the main areas I end up addressing) - they actively seek to tackle these areas while men will only do so if I specifically point it out or it becomes a major issue. 

Women dedicate a lot more attention to their posterior chain due to the demands of the competition (hams/glutes gets a lot of focus). 

Compared to men, they respond better to periods of low volume, high intensity (1-6 reps) for hypertrophy purposes. I suspect this has a lot to do with the syncing up alongside the menstrual cycle to get the most out of such periods. 

Cardio tends to be incorporated year round, 10-30mins 5-9x week. 
This, again, is a trend I discovered rather than a prescription from me. Women do have much better recovery capacity than men and I find that it helps keep them in good shape year round (important come prep time plus a lot of these girls rely on their physiques for year round income anyway). 
So despite my personal hatred for cardio, it does show a clear benefit in some cases. Coaching isn't about your personal preferences, its about doing what it takes to get optimal results. 

Women also get away with less when it comes to nutrition. In fact, the top girls have pretty much identical diets year round with very rare cheat days (literally 1-2x year), more healthy food choices (higher fibre/veggies, fish, etc) and less starchy carbs.
I also noticed that they consume around 60% of their cals within 2-3 hrs powo...interesting, though I'm not sure whether this pattern as any deeper significance behind it. 


*Does your meet/prep approach differ between the sexes?*

*POB:*

The biggest difference in meet prep between the sexes is in the taper, or the very last few weeks prior to the meet. 
I prefer to prep my clients with a block program that consists of volume accumulation, over-reach and then the taper with volume deloads tossed in. 
During the taper which is usually 4 to 5 weeks out we set openers by hitting 3RM on squat and bench and then an rpe of 9 on the deadlift. 
From there we choose to take second attempts the week after or perhaps do second attempts with reverse bands. But the volume bottoms out. It’s those heavy competition lifts and some very minor GPP for joint health really but that’s it. Training days are brief at this point because intensity is through the roof. 

For women, we take more warm up sets to keep the volume up without cutting into their intensity levels. And then even the week of the meet where everyone is barred from stepping into the gym, I will have the women come in and do simple stuff to keep the muscles alive like cable rows, band pull-throughs and such. 
No big heavy compound lifts, just enough to keep fresh. Wednesday is the last day to work and then Thursday and Friday they are off completely.

Here is the one secret I haven’t let you in on yet though… 
Any of my male powerlifters that compete under the 165lb weight class follow the same process as my female clients. They seem to require the same level or frequency of stimulation that the females do. 
I have them do all sorts of stuff to just keep the volume up without crushing them. Sand-bag pickups is one of my favorites to incorporate for them. 
Bend over, pick up the back and toss onto the shoulder. Then switch sides. 100 reps or 50 per shoulder 3 x per week. 


*Zilla:*
I've already mentioned the slight training, cardio and nutrition differences but will add a small note about peak week protocols.

My top girls do just fine in bikini & figure with no carb loading at all. In fact, a very simple sodium/water protocol is usually more than enough for both competition shows and modelling shoots. 
Keep sodium and water high throughout, cut water on the show day, cut out additional sodium from spices & other stuff that they tend to use a lot of (side effect of eating healthy diets), eliminate veggies to avoid bloating up, done. That's it.
Things become extraordinarily simple when you stay in excellent condition year round as these girls do.   


*Finallly, some common meet/prep mistakes that we tend to see...*

*POB:*
This is easy… Biggest mistake I see is not getting with someone who can guide you through the process. 

I don’t mean your boyfriend, or the big guy at the gym who says he is a powerlifter or your personal trainer. I mean someone who is a legitimate coach and has been on the platform. Someone who understands human movement, programming, leverages, and can read when someone needs a break or isn’t performing optimally. Yes it will cost you money, but you’ll have a great successful meet barring any major catastrophe like an injury which happens sometimes. 
You won’t look like an idiot. You won’t make stupid mistakes. And you’ll have an understanding for the future about what it really takes to show up conditioned for a heavy single. 
You can’t just wake up one day and think you’re going to do a meet in 2 weeks. It’s a process of preparing the body and nervous system for a brutal day. The training must be even more brutal than the meet… I think that’s Boris Sheiko’s philosophy I paraphrased just now.


*Zilla:*
Not giving yourself enough time. 

Takings things to the extreme - super high protein intakes, insane 2-3 cardio sessions per day, etc.

Cutting water in the misguided hope of dropping water weight (it actually does the opposite)
The water thing amazes me because, with the amount of information out there now, people should realize by now that to get rid of water you have to INCREASE your intake, not decrease. 

Water balance is regulated by the minute so the notion of cutting water days out to trick the body is bullshit and tends to lead to not filling out or getting a pump. It also results in competitors looking their best the day AFTER a show when water is reintroduced to help with the post-contest carb loads.
I should mention that dry carb loads can be accomplished but a) they suck and b)take longer due to the insufficient levels of solute to retain glycogen in the muscle cells) and, as a result, need to be scheduled a few days further in advance of the show. 
Done properly, you should look best on the day of the show and WORST the day after.


*Summary*

Nothing mentioned here by either of us is meant to be taken as gospel - its just what we've observed works best for our best clients. For the same reason why you shouldn't follow exactly what Arnold or Coan do, you shouldn't necessarily try to follow what we mention here - genetics is a big player.

I should briefly mention that I'm to blame for the lack of AAS/non-OTC supp discussion. I couldn't get into too much detail and yet wasn't willing to keep things too simple so I made the decision to save it for another article in the future. 
Despite that slight disappointment, I hope you guys find something worth learning from this post


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## Seeker (Aug 29, 2016)

I can share my own personal experience with being in a relationship and living with an ifbb top ten Ms. OlmpIA pro women bodybuilder. All I can say is never ever again!  Hell no. Dated a couple others too after that. I will never date a,woman bodybuilder ever again


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 29, 2016)

Damn right wrestlers are tough motherfukkers


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## DF (Aug 29, 2016)

Seeker said:


> I can share my own personal experience with being in a relationship and living with an ifbb top ten Ms. OlmpIA pro women bodybuilder. All I can say is never ever again!  Hell no. Dated a couple others too after that. I will never date a,woman bodybuilder ever again



Clit bigger than your pp? Lol


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## Seeker (Aug 29, 2016)

DF said:


> Clit bigger than your pp? Lol



Haha no. Oh man the stories I have.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 29, 2016)

Appreciated your reaching out Zilla that meant a lot. Looking forward to the article on anabolics use... it's a tough one because these things can be very individual.  To get into detail could be seen as us saying here take this to win.


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## Joliver (Aug 29, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> ....here take this to win.



POB and Zilla are going to tell us what to take to win!!!!!!!!! Subbed.


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## automatondan (Aug 29, 2016)

I feel that whatever POB or Zilla say IS GOSPEL. I love when you guys put together these awesome posts! You guys and others here at the UG that take the time to research, practice, record evidence, and share, rock... Awesome information. Thanks!


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 29, 2016)

Joliver said:


> POB and Zilla are going to tell us what to take to win!!!!!!!!! Subbed.



DHEA and trib...


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 29, 2016)

automatonDan said:


> I feel that whatever POB or Zilla say IS GOSPEL. I love when you guys put together these awesome posts! You guys and others here at the UG that take the time to research, practice, record evidence, and share, rock... Awesome information. Thanks!



Thanks but it's really not. I have been wrong plenty of times.  Nobody knows about it tho lol


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## automatondan (Aug 29, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> DHEA and trib...



Hahaha! With DHEA AND Trib I had to wear 2 pairs of jeans because of all the boners I got. I eventually had to use duct tape until I stopped usage... Biceps increased 4" had to buy a whole new wardrobe. Stay natty, dont even mess with protein powder, domt get me started....


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## ToolSteel (Aug 29, 2016)

I did actually find even the bb stuff interesting. Thanks guys.


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## MrRippedZilla (Aug 29, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Appreciated your reaching out Zilla that meant a lot. Looking forward to the article on anabolics use... it's a tough one because these things can be very individual.  To get into detail could be seen as us saying here take this to win.



I'm not the type of guy to reach out to others so yes, it should mean a lot 

Yea...I briefly mentioned this in BVS' prep thread but the lack of commonality was one reason why it didn't really belong in this post.
The other reason was due to my OCD nature when it comes to details. If we talk about anabolics, we have to talk about peptides/insulin/thermogenics/anorectics/etc and I just found it impossible to keep my response brief. 



Joliver said:


> POB and Zilla are going to tell us what to take to win!!!!!!!!! Subbed.



You know damn well that the secret elixir for winning in life is located close to a certain persons beach house in Georgia now stop teasing about it (for someone with a poor memory, I have no idea why that chatbox conversation stuck with me but there ya go). 



automatonDan said:


> I feel that whatever POB or Zilla say IS GOSPEL. I love when you guys put together these awesome posts! You guys and others here at the UG that take the time to research, practice, record evidence, and share, rock... Awesome information. Thanks!



Learning is an ongoing process and there is a very good reason why I despise people calling me, or themselves, a "guru" - we're just a couple of members trying to provide valuable information to the community. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Plus I'm arrogant enough as it is, your praise will only compound the problem lol.


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## ToolSteel (Aug 29, 2016)

Zilla ain't a guru, he's a ****ing wizard.


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## Joliver (Aug 29, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> DHEA and trib...



Fell for that back in '98. 

They're meaningless unless stacked with some androstenedione and ecdysterone. Beefcake! BEEFCAKE!!!!!


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## NbleSavage (Aug 30, 2016)

TIL: I am a female bodybuilder.


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## BiologicalChemist (Aug 30, 2016)

I agree...I grew up wresting since 6th grade to senior high school. It trained me mentally and physically, something I brought to the gym and my dieting.


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## Methyl mike (Mar 20, 2022)

Joliver said:


> Fell for that back in '98.
> 
> They're meaningless unless stacked with some androstenedione and ecdysterone. Beefcake! BEEFCAKE!!!!!


Um cell-tech whaaaaat? 

HELLO JOL


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## Joliver (Mar 21, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Um cell-tech whaaaaat?
> 
> HELLO JOL



They sold me sugar, Mike....fuckin' sugar. For $39.99.


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## MindlessWork (Mar 21, 2022)

Joliver said:


> They sold me sugar, Mike....fuckin' sugar. For $39.99.


Must been the most expensive sugar ever and sure must suck getting taken in like that. Most GNC stuff is basically sugar with extra crap in it.


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## Methyl mike (Mar 21, 2022)

Joliver said:


> They sold me sugar, Mike....fuckin' sugar. For $39.99.


Indeed I myself bought many jugs of sugar In my day.

And you know what?

I have no regrets


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## Methyl mike (Mar 21, 2022)

MindlessWork said:


> Must been the most expensive sugar ever and sure must suck getting taken in like that. Most GNC stuff is basically sugar with extra crap in it.


Must suck to be you in general.


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## Joliver (Mar 21, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Indeed I myself bought many jugs of sugar In my day.
> 
> And you know what?
> 
> I have no regrets



None. No regrets bro.


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