# 12 Week Cutting Cycle. Test/Tren and Anavar.



## GenuineTomato (May 16, 2018)

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hello All,[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Looking for some advice here.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I’m 6’2”, 194lbs and 28% Body Fat.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I’ve previously done anavar and winstrol but never jabbed.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I plan to do a 12 week cycle. With the main focus being to cut and build lean muscle. Calories around 2300-2700 per day (Carb cycling High, Medium and Low days). My macros split is around 50/25/25 Protein/Carbs/Fat.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]This is what I was thinking about running[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Week 1-12: Test E 500mg [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Week 4-12: Tren E 250mg [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Week 1-12: Arimidex 0.25-0.5mg EOD[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Week 8-12: Anavar 100mg ED[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]PCT[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Week 12-16: Clomid 50/50/50/50 and Nolvadex 40/40/20/20[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]What do you guys think to this cycle?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Feedback is appreciated[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]GT[/FONT][/FONT]


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## dk8594 (May 16, 2018)

GenuineTomato said:


> Hello All,
> Looking for some advice here.
> I’m 6’2”, 194lbs and 28% Body Fat.
> I’ve previously done anavar and winstrol but never jabbed.
> ...



So I've been looking at this for a few minutes now thinking about how to respond.  For starters, post up an intro thread in the new members sections and let the gang get to know you. Also check out the stickie on doing your first cycle.  Even though you've done winny and anavar you'll find a lot of this helpful.  https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3728-First-Cycle-All-You-Need-to-Know

Secondly, at 6'2, 194lbs, 28% bf, you should still be working on building a foundation.  There is still a lot of muscle to be put on your frame prior to getting ripped.  There will be some who disagree with me on this, but gaining muscle while losing fat is a tall order so I'd recommend you focus more on building muscle.  I woudnt recommend you go for the sumo wrestler look during your cycle, but I would recommend you give up any thoughts of 8-pack abs and focusing on building out your frame (which will require more than the 2,300 calories you have planned).  You'll appear leaner just by having more muscle mass.

Thirdly, what you actually asked for.......

I'd drop the anavar.  It's effects are most noticeable when you're <12% BF
I'd recommend Tren A as opposed to Tren E since Tren A will be easier for you to bail out of if this go south.
I'd hold off on the Arimdex until your blood work shows you need it.


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## GenuineTomato (May 16, 2018)

Thanks for coming back to me.

I measured my BF % using one of those digital scales which I don’t believe is accurate.. I would say I am more 20-25%.

I’ve also read that you should wait 3 weeks before PCT for bloods to level out.

I have a good frame, been lifting since I were 18, Chest 42kg DB for 10, Shoulder 40kg DB for 10, Squats 140kg for 10 (Not so good )


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## gymrat827 (May 16, 2018)

you wait 3 weeks after the cycle to start pct if your using tes e or c.  They are long esters and the cycle is still essentially going because they are still working.  In the start of this run, the var would be the only thing working the first 10-15 days.  

I would start the tren a bit earlier, 8wks of tren e isnt worth it IMHO.  you do not need caber with tren if you keep your e2 right but most have trouble doing so.  Being you have not inj-ed yet, tren may not be the best option either.  EQ would be my choice, tren sides can be rough...even @ 250mg.  

at 6'2 most here would say get to 210lbs natty and then pin this cycle.  Id also consider more of a recomp cycle too, you are already are under 200lbs


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## motown1002 (May 16, 2018)

In my opinion, I would focus on diet first.  I would try to drop a little bf.  At your height and weight, why do a cutting cycle?  I would focus on cleaning up the diet for a couple months, then do a real cycle to put on some muscle.


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## GenuineTomato (May 16, 2018)

Because I’m planning on getting ripped for a holiday in September, that’s why I’m cutting. That’s why I was think about doing 8 weeks Lean Muscle building and then 4 weeks cutting with var


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## dk8594 (May 16, 2018)

Pharmaceuticals are only one piece of it..   Spongy's recomp guide will help you out.

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/9520-Helios-Nutrition-Recomp-Guide


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## GenuineTomato (May 16, 2018)

Thanks, and your thoughts on the stack?
Test E, with/or without Tren and would you run var to dry the look


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## motown1002 (May 16, 2018)

If this is your first real cycle with Test, I would stick to test only for the first run.  And being new I wouldn't run Tren until I had a few cycles under my belt.  Second cycle could be test an deca.


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## deejeff442 (May 16, 2018)

Where do people get gear cuts fat? I must have missed that in years of reading


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## Bro Bundy (May 17, 2018)

I say this shit all the time..You want to come into a cycle already inshape (ripped/big) ...going into a cycle at 28% bf is pointless and a waste of juice..Drop that to 12% everyone is 12% on the boards anyway..Go into the cycle already getting the bullshit bf% down so u can get to work building muscle


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## jennerrator (May 17, 2018)

deejeff442 said:


> Where do people get gear cuts fat? I must have missed that in years of reading



Lol..exactly...don’t understand how peeps don’t get the “food” thing lmao


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## Nitrous4me (May 17, 2018)

First of all FOok u very much for being 6’2”.... second pound on the iron for a couple years longer figure out your diet and how your body works then hit that cycle.  My 2 cents...


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## bvs (May 17, 2018)

the tren train is a few more stations down the line. test only first, then you can move onto a two compound cycle for your second, still not tren though, something like EQ or deca. IMO tren is a 4th or 5th cycle compound


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## GenuineTomato (May 17, 2018)

So I’ve decided to buy some calipers and do my body percentage accurately as it appears to be such an issue, I don’t believe I’m 29%, and blame my cheap scales at home. I will report back with my findings.

My diet is spot on, I have calculated my macros taking into consideration TDEE.

Obviously I will need to reconsider if I do cycle, I’ve began looking into the recomp plan as earlier suggested on the thread... but struggle to see how you get 350g of protein from raw food source and not protein shakes, I work on clients sites daily and this isn’t practical for me


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## Jin (May 17, 2018)

You'd be better off posting pictures here for us to evaluate your bodyfat rather than doing it yourself with calipers and no experience.


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## stonetag (May 17, 2018)

Nitrous4me said:


> First of all FOok u very much for being 6’2”.... second pound on the iron for a couple years longer figure out your diet and how your body works then hit that cycle.  My 2 cents...



Hey Jin! Is he thanking us for being 6'2" or..............?..lol

OP Welcome to the UG!


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## deejeff442 (May 17, 2018)

Protein... liquid egg whites and whole milk thats how to get alot of it...
F protein powders waste of momey and not fda checked so they can put anything on the bottle they want.


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## Jin (May 17, 2018)

deejeff442 said:


> Protein... liquid egg whites and whole milk thats how to get alot of it...
> F protein powders waste of momey and not fda checked so they can put anything on the bottle they want.



I don't understand why you wouldn't eat the yolks, then go and drink whole milk.


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## Viduus (May 17, 2018)

GenuineTomato said:


> I’ve began looking into the recomp plan as earlier suggested on the thread... but struggle to see how you get 350g of protein from raw food source and not protein shakes, I work on clients sites daily and this isn’t practical for me



One bite at a time? Spongy knows his stuff and a lot of us have had great results with his plans. Whole food is just healthy in general and provides secondary micronutrients that are missing from shakes.

The main reason why I’ve enjoyed the switch is digestibility. Having lots of fast digesting meals makes your body feel so much better. If I have a low-quality shake or make a poor meal choice, I just feel bloated and sluggish compared to a truly clean whole-food diet.

Hard-work takes work.... get on it!


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## herrsauce (May 17, 2018)

First off, welcome to the board. Secondly, asking for helping is a great first step. The second step would be to heed some of that advice. If you are even roughly estimating your bodyfat % to be in the high teens, low 20's, then you should lose some fat. Lift heavy and clean up your diet. You say it is spot on, but it is entirely possible to get down to 175 lbs and shredded at your height without AAS if your diet is "spot on".

Your diet has to suck. That's just it. That's the answer man. If you just listen to the advice in the thread and have some patience you will see your goals.


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## GenuineTomato (May 17, 2018)

Hi All, just an update, I had my scales setup as a women, my body fat is actually 23.1%

With this in mind what would you recommend


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## Spongy (May 17, 2018)

GenuineTomato said:


> So I’ve decided to buy some calipers and do my body percentage accurately as it appears to be such an issue, I don’t believe I’m 29%, and blame my cheap scales at home. I will report back with my findings.
> 
> My diet is spot on, I have calculated my macros taking into consideration TDEE.
> 
> Obviously I will need to reconsider if I do cycle, I’ve began looking into the recomp plan as earlier suggested on the thread... but struggle to see how you get 350g of protein from raw food source and not protein shakes, I work on clients sites daily and this isn’t practical for me



Remember that was just a sample diet for someone consuming almost 4000 calories a day.  I do not believe you would recomp at 4000 a day based on what information you have provided.


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## Seeker (May 17, 2018)

calipers aren't an ideal measurement of BF% it will give you a minus/plus 5% or so off ratio.  I personally don't have an issue with protein powders. they are helpful in added whey protein supplementation. As long as you are using it as an added protein supplement and not as your main source.


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## GenuineTomato (May 17, 2018)

Thanks for your feedback, so my main objective here is to drop body fat, but maintain lean muscle. I’m around 23% and aim to cut to around 15% in 12 weeks. I’m considering test because I don’t want to lose muscle mass whilst cutting.

As mentioned diet is massive, I’m currently carb cycling 2300-2700kcals (Office Job) but in reality if I follow spongy’s recomp plan this would be more.

I’m 6’2” 90.3kg 23% body fat


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## dk8594 (May 17, 2018)

GenuineTomato said:


> Thanks for your feedback, so my main objective here is to drop body fat, but maintain lean muscle. I’m around 23% and aim to cut to around 15% in 12 weeks. I’m considering test because I don’t want to lose muscle mass whilst cutting.
> 
> As mentioned diet is massive, I’m currently carb cycling 2300-2700kcals (Office Job) but in reality if I follow spongy’s recomp plan this would be more.
> 
> I’m 6’2” 90.3kg 23% body fat



Whether you're 23% or 29%, I don't think anyone's advice will have changed.

I would recommend that you figure out your TDEE https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3794-Understanding-BMR-vs-TDEE

And if your goal is in  16 weeks, meaning you want to be at a weight of about 172, you'll need to run about a 700 calorie deficit day.  Not pleasant, but not starvation either.


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## Chillinlow (May 17, 2018)

deejeff442 said:


> Protein... liquid egg whites and whole milk thats how to get alot of it...
> F protein powders waste of momey and not fda checked so they can put anything on the bottle they want.



Buy the drinks then they are considered food and are regulated


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## Leatherhead (May 17, 2018)

First thing I'd like to know is what is your diet consist of? How many times a day are you eating? What kind of workout are you doing? What kind of cardio are you doing? How many cycles have you done?


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## GenuineTomato (May 17, 2018)

So I have worked out my macros based on the following calculations, this is for a recomp diet, what do you guys think? Excuse my workings out at the bottom of the page (I am really 25 and not 12  )

Any reason why there isn't an OK button when you try and upload an image from local source?


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## GenuineTomato (May 17, 2018)

-- Cant upload the image - please notify site owners to resolve issue with not being able to upload images from local source (multiple browsers tried)

200 (Body Weight in lbs) x 13 (Exercise level 12-16) = 2600
Maintain Calories 2600
Lifting Days 2800 (200 Cal Surplus)
Non-Lifting Cardio Days 2100 (500 Cal Deficit)

Marcos
Lifting Days
Protein 240g (200 x 1.2) 940 cal
Fat 93g (2800 x .3) 840 cal - 9cals per gram
Carb 255g (2800 - (940 + 840)) 1020 cal - 4cals per gram

Cardio Non Lifting Days
Protein 240g (200 x 1.2) 940 cal
Fat 70g (2100 x .3) 630 cal - 9cals per gram
Carb 132g (2100 - (940 + 630)) 530 cal - 4cals per gram

6 Meals a day
12 Week Recomp cycle


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## Nitrous4me (May 17, 2018)

stonetag said:


> Hey Jin! Is he thanking us for being 6'2" or..............?..lol
> 
> 
> Ummmmm... No... but congratulations you sir are blessed. Me not so much at a handsome 5’7” . Damn genetics....


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## deejeff442 (May 17, 2018)

Lol because i get cartons of egg whites . I dont crack eggs


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## deejeff442 (May 17, 2018)

So the star bucks drink with 20g of protein i love so much is legit
Sweeeet


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## dk8594 (May 18, 2018)

GenuineTomato said:


> -- Cant upload the image - please notify site owners to resolve issue with not being able to upload images from local source (multiple browsers tried)
> 
> 200 (Body Weight in lbs) x 13 (Exercise level 12-16) = 2600
> Maintain Calories 2600
> ...



We can probably tweak this thing to death and get into some analysis paralysis, but the important thing is you have a plan.  Now go execute it. Reassess in 4 weeks and see if you are tracking to your goal. 

You have the basics; move more, eat less. Every minute you spend over analyzing it is another minute you aren’t moving forward.


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## BRICKS (May 18, 2018)

This right here ^^^^^^.  Not rocket science man. Train hard and heavy, through in some cardio and eat less


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## GenuineTomato (May 18, 2018)

So the carbs aren’t too high for lifting days? When would be the best times to intake carbs? I’m guessing post workout? And mornings maybe?


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## dk8594 (May 18, 2018)

There are diminishing returns to added layers of complexity.

Getting from 10% to 5% bf is hard and you need to get anal.

In your case, going from 23% to 15 % is a walk in the park and is basically move more, eat less, lift.

You are over thinking it.  No one will know your body like you will and macros are an individual thing ( I do well on high fat: others are miserable on high fat)

You are 25. Now is the time to learn what works for you. Start your plan, journal how you feel, and asses your progress in 4 weeks.  Think of yourself as a scientist and your body as your experiment.


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## Viduus (May 18, 2018)

GenuineTomato said:


> -- Cant upload the image - please notify site owners to resolve issue with not being able to upload images from local source (multiple browsers tried)



Fyi, it only works on a computer. iPhone/iPads don’t seem to like uploading photos.

Also the iPhone gets “stuck”when editing text. I’ve figured out you have to click off the text if the cut/select menu is open then hit “done” on the keyboard. Reclick where you want to edit then start typing. Hopefully this saves you the same pain.


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## Viduus (May 18, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> In your case, going from 23% to 15 % is a walk in the park and is basically move more, eat less, lift.



In hindsight DK is right. Basic weight loss is much easier then the work that comes after. Cutting further or building correctly takes much longer then losing it.

Don’t limit yourself to a timeframe, just make sure you’re making steady progress. Otherwise you’ll be tempted to do horrible things like cutting calories beyond a 1k deficit. This will either shut down half your body and slow your weight loss or you’ll lose a LOT more muscle then you want. Fasting has worked for some people but in my experience I felt much better with smaller more frequent meals.

If you’re serious, contact spongy ( Helios Nutrition)


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