# Food vs shakes



## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

1) a calorie is a calorie. Doesn’t matter if it’s from pop tarts or oats. 

2) food is superior to supplements/shakes. 


These are two opinions often expressed on this board and they are incongruous. 

So, which is it?


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## notsoswoleCPA (Feb 10, 2019)

I find that food satisfies my appetite more than supplements/shakes do.  My own experience with this was back in 2016 when I had two pre-molars removed and began a 6+ month process of healing for dental implants.  It was just too hard to eat my usual diet since I was limited to soft foods.  As a result, I made a lot of protein shakes and smoothies to fill the bill with the calories.  Even though I was hitting my calorie goal per day, I found I was always hungry on the shakes versus if I had been able to eat regular food.

Even now, I still supplement with protein/meal replacement shakes to hit a certain protein target for the day.  I don't know about anyone else here, but I have a hard time eating 200+ grams of protein from whole foods on a daily basis.  As a result, I find myself forcing food down and I don't like doing that either.

Unfortunately, I can't say how food vs supplements/shakes helped my gains as I was in the infant stages of my training at the time.  Even if my gains were hindered, it's hard to know how much of that hindrance was due to my body healing up the jawbone by fusing it to the titanium inserts.  I've heard it preached many times throughout my life that the body has a hard time serving multiple masters, and healing from surgery along with recovery from workouts seems to top that list of multiple masters that the body hates serving.


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## Thatgoodfellow (Feb 10, 2019)

I get most my calories from beer.


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## jennerrator (Feb 10, 2019)

Well this is a personal preference...I eat clean and have clean shakes!


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## German89 (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> 1) a calorie is a calorie. Doesn’t matter if it’s from pop tarts or oats.
> 
> 2) food is superior to supplements/shakes.
> 
> ...



1. A calorie is a calorie. That's why I have lucky charms every day 

2. I dont do protein shakes any more. Pointless.


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## Seeker (Feb 10, 2019)

of course food should always matter more and one should never get to a point where relying on just shakes becomes a bad habit but having said that there is nothing wrong with adding a shake to your day. I enjoy them and in some situations they have become useful to meet a target. The food vs shake shouldn't even be a damn debate.


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 10, 2019)

Generally speaking the shake isn't optimal for a trained bodybuilder/powerlifter type. Hitting protein macros is a part of the game and we all can do it. You do it for years and you just get used to it.

For a more beginner type, subbing shakes for food can lead to less calories being consumed overall and therefore less growth.


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

Seeker said:


> of course food should always matter more and one should never get to a point where relying on just shakes becomes a bad habit .



I’m not saying you’re wrong but I don’t understand why this is so (besides micronutrients, fiber etc)


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## Uncle manny (Feb 10, 2019)

I’ve always said real food is best but living in the real world there are times you don’t have access to a meal or time to eat it so a shake will do fine no big deal nothing wrong with that. As for calorie vs calorie, that’s a little bit complex/controversial. IIFYM was big years ago people fitting all kinds of crap in their diet hitting their macros making gains/losing weight. However, in the big picture after a while of eating garbage that fits, but isn’t nutrient dense, there can be physiological side effects.


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> Generally speaking the shake isn't optimal for a trained bodybuilder/powerlifter type. .




I promise I’m not trying to be a pest! Why isn’t it optimal? 

Example: whey, carb powder(complex),fiber, OO


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## John Ziegler (Feb 10, 2019)

in the bulking phases eat as much as you can then wash it down with the shake for good measure


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## jennerrator (Feb 10, 2019)

Here we go again..different goals...different lifestyles...


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

John Ziegler said:


> in the bulking phases eat as much as you can then wash it down with the shake for good measure



I do this. 

This has nothing to do with my question


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## Spongy (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> I promise I’m not trying to be a pest! Why isn’t it optimal?
> 
> Example: whey, carb powder(complex),fiber, OO



Like you said in a previous post, micronutrients, etc...  Different absorption times, different bioavailability, vastly different gastrointestinal response.


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> I promise I’m not trying to be a pest! Why isn’t it optimal?
> 
> Example: whey, carb powder(complex),fiber, OO



You would be hungry and broke and probably have the schitz.

I guess I should go back to the original question. You asking about subbing all food with shakes or just having a shake here and there in addition to?


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## Seeker (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> I’m not saying you’re wrong but I don’t understand why this is so (besides micronutrients, fiber etc)



well you pretty much just said it. Shakes aren't meant to be meal replacements. They are meant for supplemental use.. They are not as balanced nutritionally as whole foods


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## John Ziegler (Feb 10, 2019)

jennerrator said:


> Here we go again..different goals...different lifestyles...



& dont forget about sexual orientations :32 (16):


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> You would be hungry and broke and probably have the schitz.
> 
> I guess I should go back to the original question. You asking about subbing all food with shakes or just having a shake here and there in addition to?



I want to know what scientifically sound answer we give a newbie who asks “why is food superior to shakes?”

because I don’t have a good answer for that other than the aforementioned going broke and having the squirts.


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## Spongy (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> I want to know what scientifically sound answer we give a newbie who asks “why is food superior to shakes?”
> 
> because I don’t have a good answer for that other than the aforementioned going broke and having the squirts.



Micronutrients, absorption rates, bioavailability, and gastrointestinal response.


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> I want to know what scientifically sound answer we give a newbie who asks “why is food superior to shakes?”
> 
> because I don’t have a good answer for that other than the aforementioned going broke and having the squirts.



But you also said fiber micronutrients etc...

2 posts where people gave you the answer and you say other than 

You wanna take this outside?


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 10, 2019)

I will fight everyone


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## Spongy (Feb 10, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> I will fight everyone



I like hugs too


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

Spongy said:


> Micronutrients, absorption rates, bioavailability, and gastrointestinal response.



Playing devils advocate here. Not challenging your authority on nutrition. 

-Multivitamin- micro
-casein/whey- absorption 
- whey- highly bioavailable

i think you could make an argument for shakes over whole food for bulking. Less thermogenesis in digestion.


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

This is what happens when I tren


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## Gadawg (Feb 10, 2019)

What if my shakes have beneficial fruits and vegetables in them, loaded with bioavailable micronutrients and fiber along with my macros?





Boom!


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> This is what happens when I tren



I **** fat chicks when I tren


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## Seeker (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> This is what happens when I tren



I want a response to my response to your response. Please respond


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## Spongy (Feb 10, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> What if my shakes have beneficial fruits and vegetables in them, loaded with bioavailable micronutrients and fiber along with my macros?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You will still be hungry because it's liquid


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> I **** fat chicks when I tren





Seeker said:


> I want a response to my response to your response. Please respond



A++ thread right here!!!!


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## Gadawg (Feb 10, 2019)

Spongy said:


> You will still be hungry because it's liquid



Im bulking and now Im still hungry for me next meal


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## John Ziegler (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> I do this.
> 
> This has nothing to do with my question



thing about pop tarts & stuff like that doesnt work for me is because i gotta watch out for sugar and salt.


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## bigdog (Feb 10, 2019)

When I was in my weight loss phase I did shakes more because they seemed to digest better. I Lost a lot of weight eating 3 food meals and 3 shakes a day. Once I started lifting and adding muscle I eliminated shakes for whole food because food gave me better results and kept me full without shits. I will do a shake if I'm on the run and need a quick fix until I can actually eat food.  Now poptarts are my goto. Immediately post workout I eat them and found I had less results when I tried eliminating them so fukk it, it's my excuse to eat em lol


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## simplesteve (Feb 10, 2019)

My food source is shakes. Every other day or a few days a week I will have a custom Jimmy John's sandwich made.

I never feel uncomfortable or bloated feeling after drinking them, I get all the nutrients I need and it's really easy to keep track of what I've put in my body. 

I use the Mass Tech extreme 2000 , I spend about $150/month for two 22lb containers.

On January 13th I weighed 185.4 lbs and yesterday I weighed 199.4

I feel better than I have in a while, but will slowly begin to incorporate real food slowly starting with eggs and food I know I don't have trouble with. 

#TeamShake


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> 1) a calorie is a calorie. Doesn’t matter if it’s from pop tarts or oats.
> 
> 2) food is superior to supplements/shakes.
> 
> ...


i dont believe in a cal is a cal and food is way better then shakes from my experience ..That saying you still should incorporate shakes and even shitty food


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## maxmuscle1 (Feb 10, 2019)

I have found I need a protein powder(more)during cutting phases.  When I’m bulking, whole food is about 80% of my diet.


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## Viduus (Feb 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> I promise I’m not trying to be a pest! Why isn’t it optimal?
> 
> Example: whey, carb powder(complex),fiber, OO



My understanding is the process of digestion and breaking down solid food is a trigger to certain processes in the body. (No idea what they are other then Spongy's hunger comment)

this is makes sense since the human body would have evolved needing to break things down during most meals. I’d also imagine there’s secondary nutrients that are helpful. Not necessarily fireman’s but odd things like the stringy filaments in meat. Again, no idea what they might do but are bodies are good at using odd things,


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## Spongy (Feb 10, 2019)

Viduus said:


> My understanding is the process of digestion and breaking down solid food is a trigger to certain processes in the body. (No idea what they are other then Spongy's hunger comment)
> 
> this is makes sense since the human body would have evolved needing to break things down during most meals. I’d also imagine there’s secondary nutrients that are helpful. Not necessarily fireman’s but odd things like the stringy filaments in meat. Again, no idea what they might do but are bodies are good at using odd things,



Specific dynamic action aka the "thermic effect of food"


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## Viduus (Feb 10, 2019)

Spongy said:


> Specific dynamic action aka the "thermic effect of food"


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## Hurt (Feb 10, 2019)

Spongy said:


> Specific dynamic action aka the "thermic effect of food"



This. There’s a reason you break out into a sweat when you eat a 1k kcal meal vs chugging a weight gainer shake. 

You need to “challenge” your digestive system. The act of digestion itself raises your metabolic rate.

Drinking shakes all the time is just like being a bitch ass baby bird who needs the mommy bird to pre-digest it’s food for it.


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## BRICKS (Feb 10, 2019)

Lol ^^^^^

I've been using both for a long time.  I'll let the result speak for itself.


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## Hurt (Feb 10, 2019)

BRICKS said:


> Lol ^^^^^
> 
> I've been using both for a long time.  I'll let the result speak for itself.




Same. Shakes are advantageous when used appropriately (eg post-workout) but I’m specifically referring to the guys who get lazy and replace meals with shakes because it’s easier.

I will often have two shakes in a day - one immediately when I wake up and one immediately post-workout...but that’s in addition to hitting 6 whole food meals a day.


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## BRICKS (Feb 10, 2019)

Hurt said:


> Same. Shakes are advantageous when used appropriately (eg post-workout) but I’m specifically referring to the guys who get lazy and replace meals with shakes because it’s easier.
> 
> I will often have two shakes in a day - one immediately when I wake up and one immediately post-workout...but that’s in addition to hitting 6 whole food meals a day.



Yes, agreed.  Same MO here.


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## Spongy (Feb 10, 2019)

BRICKS said:


> Yes, agreed.  Same MO here.



I'm similar, but I have one shake per day, two scoops.

Wake up and eat whole food pre workout.  Train and then whole food post workout.  I have one shake immediately prior to going to bed.  That's it.

I dont know a single competitor who takes a shake post workout that doesn't follow it up with a full meal within about 90 minutes or so.


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## Hurt (Feb 10, 2019)

Spongy said:


> I'm similar, but I have one shake per day, two scoops.
> 
> Wake up and eat whole food pre workout.  Train and then whole food post workout.  I have one shake immediately prior to going to bed.  That's it.
> 
> I dont know a single competitor who takes a shake post workout that doesn't follow it up with a full meal within about 90 minutes or so.



Exactly. I take my shake at the gym postworkout and then eat a whole food meal once I get home.


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## Jada (Feb 10, 2019)

jennerrator said:


> Well this is a personal preference...I eat clean and have clean shakes!



This right here for me, i eat as clean as possible and when im not able to get a meal in because of my schedule then i will have a shake at least.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 10, 2019)

For me it’s cost effectiveness. I’ve yet to find a powder that’s cheaper per gram of protein than bulk chicken breast. 
I keep a tub of some random cheap protein around but rarely use it.


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## Jaydub (Feb 10, 2019)

I'll drink a shake or 2 a day.. the only powder in them is whey or casein. Oats, yogurt, berries, banana.. usually when I'm in a rush and can't make something solid to eat. I don't do weight gainers though... hate those things.


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## Gadawg (Feb 10, 2019)

ToolSteel said:


> For me it’s cost effectiveness. I’ve yet to find a powder that’s cheaper per gram of protein than bulk chicken breast.
> I keep a tub of some random cheap protein around but rarely use it.



Can I blend up chicken into my shake or will that constitute a shake and not work as well?


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## jennerrator (Feb 11, 2019)

Jaydub said:


> I'll drink a shake or 2 a day.. the only powder in them is whey or casein. Oats, yogurt, berries, banana.. usually when I'm in a rush and can't make something solid to eat. I don't do weight gainers though... hate those things.



That's exactly what I use in mine....and when I use them...some PB also..lol.......obviously only drinking protein powder and water lasts 10 fuuucking mins..that's not even worth it in my eyes...

I'd puke / choke if I tried to drink a weight gainer one!


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## MrRippedZilla (Feb 11, 2019)

"A calorie is a calorie" and "food > shakes/supps" are only incongruous if you think it's all about calories and nothing else. It isn't. Therefore, not incongruous.

I'll flip the question on you: if adherence is THE most important aspect of nutrition, which it is, then please build a case for shake only diets in place of food for healthy, sane, folks. Good luck


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## BigSwolePump (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Can I blend up chicken into my shake or will that constitute a shake and not work as well?



Yep


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## Jada (Feb 11, 2019)

Ummm^^^^ hell no 4 me.


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## Jin (Feb 11, 2019)

MrRippedZilla said:


> "A calorie is a calorie" and "food > shakes/supps" are only incongruous if you think it's all about calories and nothing else. It isn't. Therefore, not incongruous.
> 
> I'll flip the question on you: if adherence is THE most important aspect of nutrition, which it is, then please build a case for shake only diets in place of food for healthy, sane, folks. Good luck



I was never making a case in either direction. 

I want to be able to explain the advice I give to people and I realized I didn’t know the answer to “why is real food better than supplements?”

Good points.


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## snake (Feb 11, 2019)

I think the operative word is "Supplement" and is intended as such. When MetRX can out, it was billed as a complete meal for people who were not able to meet their dietary requirements. If I recall, it was marketed to hospitals for patients who had problems consuming food; yeah that changed quick.

I often wondered if I could find a good quality food replacement and be able to do just drinks. Now before anyone jumps on that, there's no one food that you can consume that meets all your requirements and I doubt even if you tried, you'd be able to get everything you needed/wanted in whole foods. POB can scream all he wants but I'd still be taking my one-a-day vit/min.


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## Hurt (Feb 11, 2019)

snake said:


> I think the operative word is "Supplement" and is intended as such. When MetRX can out, it was billed as a complete meal for people who were not able to meet their dietary requirements. If I recall, it was marketed to hospitals for patients who had problems consuming food; yeah that changed quick.
> 
> I often wondered if I could find a good quality food replacement and be able to do just drinks. Now before anyone jumps on that, there's no one food that you can consume that meets all your requirements and I doubt even if you tried, you'd be able to get everything you needed/wanted in whole foods. POB can scream all he wants but I'd still be taking my one-a-day vit/min.



Its less about the nutritional components of a shake vs a food. You can absolutely structure a shake with all the necessary things you need.

Its more about the actual breakdown of solid food in your gut - in the simplest terms, if you stop ‘challenging’ your digestive system to break down solid foods, it will get ‘lazy’. (Also, the thermic effect of food as mentioned earlier is a benefit)

Even The physical act of chewing has a physiological effect, inducing a cascade of enzymatic processes necessary for digestion.

Trust me, I would LOVE to be able to just drink all my meals, but I know it’s not as beneficial to me in the long run.


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## motown1002 (Feb 11, 2019)

BRICKS said:


> Yes, agreed.  Same MO here.



You holla for me?  lol


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## snake (Feb 11, 2019)

Hurt said:


> Its less about the nutritional components of a shake vs a food. You can absolutely structure a shake with all the necessary things you need.
> 
> Its more about the actual breakdown of solid food in your gut - in the simplest terms, if you stop ‘challenging’ your digestive system to break down solid foods, it will get ‘lazy’. (Also, the thermic effect of food as mentioned earlier is a benefit)
> 
> ...



Very true Hurt. I just wondered how long I would last. The act of eating for me at times is more social. Nothing like sitting down with the family and pounding down a good meal.


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## snake (Feb 11, 2019)

BigSwolePump said:


> Yep



Just me personally but I have zero desire to look like that.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 11, 2019)

snake said:


> Just me personally but I have zero desire to look like that.


Given the choice, I doubt he would want to look like that either. 
But he has the highest total in IPF history.


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## Yaya (Feb 11, 2019)

Both work great... yummy


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## Rhino99 (Feb 11, 2019)

snake said:


> Just me personally but I have zero desire to look like that.



Was thinking the same thing.
Why would I take nutritional advice from someone like that.

Also, do you think women look at him and think he's hot because he can lift a VW...fuk no.


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## mabdelrasoul (Feb 11, 2019)

I can’t get a shake down if my life depended on it. Rather eat smaller portions more frequent .


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## jennerrator (Feb 11, 2019)

Rhino99 said:


> Was thinking the same thing.
> Why would I take nutritional advice from someone like that.
> 
> Also, do you think women look at him and think he's hot because he can lift a VW...fuk no.



Let's go with...FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK...no!


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## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

jennerrator said:


> Let's go with...FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK...no!



But he shaves everything Jenn. And I mean everytjing.....


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## jennerrator (Feb 12, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> But he shaves everything Jenn. And I mean everytjing.....



hahahahahahaha...it took the guy I was seeing ..who was military and in great shape.....forever to do it...can't imagine how long it would take dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Straight30weight (Feb 15, 2019)

Rhino99 said:


> Was thinking the same thing.
> Why would I take nutritional advice from someone like that.
> 
> Also, do you think women look at him and think he's hot because he can lift a VW...fuk no.


If you wanted to be strong as **** you’d take advice from him. That’s the vanilla gorilla. Dudes bad as hell.


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## MS1605 (Feb 15, 2019)

snake said:


> there's no one food that you can consume that meets all your requirements and I doubt even if you tried, you'd be able to get everything you needed/wanted in whole foods.



Hard boiled egg.


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## jennerrator (Mar 17, 2019)

Well..here we go..considering what I’m dealing with...2 meal shakes a day..and the only switch out I do for protein is high protein yogurt vs the protein powder...so far so good and will deal with it till I don’t have to.


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