# Let's stop the BS.. Most guys/gals NEVER get off



## tomphoenix (Feb 29, 2020)

No idea why we just don't say it. Cycling is long dead. Users get on and that all. They cycle what's seasonal and go on and on. Bodybuilders and amatures alike never stop using. A solid base of test (minimum) is always in use.

Let's simply accept that. Now, what else do you use during these "down" times?


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## BigSwolePump (Feb 29, 2020)

You are wrong.

Lets simply accept that.


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## John Ziegler (Feb 29, 2020)

cycle = going on steroids for 3 or 4 months then going completely off or back to trt levels

blast & cruze = always staying above 250mgs then blasting higher doses for cycle durations 

trt = staying under 250mgs per week


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## transcend2007 (Feb 29, 2020)

You're too hardcore (sorry I could not resist he used hardcore in his welcome thread tittle) ...

Just stick to thing you know beter ... I'm still thinking PP pics ... admit it ... that's why you're really here ...


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## rawdeal (Feb 29, 2020)

Shit ... I thought this thread was gonna be about orgasms.


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## tomphoenix (Feb 29, 2020)

Real bodybuilders never get off. I'm not here because of that. I'm here in spite of it. I'd love to talk use with any and everybody. I'd simply like to even the playing field.

Once it's admitted, we can all move forward with honest discussion. A user has no business telling a natural BB how to train. Many have been on so long, that's they have simply forgotten what it's like to train natural.


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## tomphoenix (Feb 29, 2020)

Rawdeal.. stick around.. It may get there..


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## Spongy (Feb 29, 2020)

tomphoenix said:


> Real bodybuilders never get off. I'm not here because of that. I'm here in spite of it. I'd love to talk use with any and everybody. I'd simply like to even the playing field.
> 
> Once it's admitted, we can all move forward with honest discussion. A user has no business telling a natural BB how to train. Many have been on so long, that's they have simply forgotten what it's like to train natural.



Most members here aren't real bodybuilders


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## tomphoenix (Feb 29, 2020)

Professionally no. They work out. They build their body. They are bodybuilders. And they use PED's. Many in perpetuity. 

I fail to see what your argument entails


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## brock8282 (Feb 29, 2020)

tomphoenix;591077
 A user has no business telling a natural BB how to train. Many have been on so long said:
			
		

> Why?
> 
> ...........


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## Spongy (Feb 29, 2020)

tomphoenix said:


> Professionally no. They work out. They build their body. They are bodybuilders. And they use PED's. Many in perpetuity.
> 
> I fail to see what your argument entails



I didn't make an argument.  I stated a fact.


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## Spongy (Feb 29, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> Why?
> 
> ...........



Because training naturally is different than training on steroids.  It requires different focus, different test variables, different nutritional variables.


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## tomphoenix (Feb 29, 2020)

I didn't say you didn't make an argument.   I also didn't say that you are factually incorrect. Which you may or may not be. Based on definition.   In any case, this requires a serious response.


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## brock8282 (Feb 29, 2020)

Spongy said:


> Because training naturally is different than training on steroids.  It requires different focus, different test variables, different nutritional variables.



literally no clue what you mean by any of that. The focus is progressive overload regardless if you are natural or on steroids. Test variables? I have no clue what you are referring to or saying with this. Nutrition variables? No clue once again as a bodybuilding diet doesn't change whether enhanced or not. Still generally eating 5-6 meals a day high protein and being in a calorie deficit or surplus depending on goal. and not sure how that is related to training anyways.


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## brock8282 (Feb 29, 2020)

I get a sense you are one of those guys tom who is unhappy with the results he has had with hormone use therefore everyone must be using and abusing more then they lead people to believe.
That or I just completely misunderstood what you mean, yes most high level bbers don't go completely off and pct, some high level competitors will go completely off for 2-3 months a year but yeah its a relatively small ammount, most will go down to trt levels at times. some will cruise abit higher on 300-500mg. Again speaking high level guys, most will try to cruise every 4-6 months for 6-12 weeks, sometimes the competition season doesn't allow that though so maybe they only cruise 2-3 months at the end of the season occasionally. Hell I know some guys that ONLY go on for competing and doing 1-2 shows (close together if 2) a year and then generally pct or trt (100-200mg) the rest of the year, the ones I know who do this tend to be mens physique guys to be fair. 

Non competitive gym bro bbers, most I know use responsibly and pct or cruise on trt levels (100-200mg) and a typical cycle will be 12-16 weeks followed by cruising for 8 weeks minimum generally longer.

in my experience, guys who are actually legit huge, tend to use hormones more responsibly then average gym goers. they had the genetics to get huge with relatively mild doses and they tend to cruise for large stretches of the year as they haver the mass already.


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## Jin (Mar 1, 2020)

I get off all the time.


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## brock8282 (Mar 1, 2020)

Jin said:


> I get off all the time.



at least 3 times a day here


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## mabdelrasoul (Mar 1, 2020)

I have to get off or else my balls turn to nuts.


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## Viduus (Mar 1, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> literally no clue what you mean by any of that. The focus is progressive overload regardless if you are natural or on steroids. Test variables? I have no clue what you are referring to or saying with this. Nutrition variables? No clue once again as a bodybuilding diet doesn't change whether enhanced or not. Still generally eating 5-6 meals a day high protein and being in a calorie deficit or surplus depending on goal. and not sure how that is related to training anyways.



After watching a natural pro prep a few times.... I’m going to disagree. It’s very similar but the margin of error is slim to none... you can’t miss a few hours of sleep or a meal and expect to recover properly etc. Similiar principles but an entirely different execution.

OP: think you’re wrong. Maybe it’s age etc. but I don’t feel like having hemiticrit, rbc, or blood pressure issues beyond what I already have. Also not a fan of killing my heart, liver or kidneys. To each their own though.

TRT: that’s a different story.


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## CJ (Mar 1, 2020)

tomphoenix said:


> Let's simply accept that. Now, what else do you use during these "down" times?



My "Down Times" are just TRT. Currently on 140mg per week, that's it. 

My "blasts" aren't much more than that.


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## YvngNewport (Mar 1, 2020)

BigSwolePump said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> Lets simply accept that.




Literally reading this post all I can think is WRONG


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## brock8282 (Mar 1, 2020)

Viduus said:


> After watching a natural pro prep a few times.... I’m going to disagree. It’s very similar but the margin of error is slim to none... you can’t miss a few hours of sleep or a meal and expect to recover properly etc. Similiar principles but an entirely different execution.
> 
> OP: think you’re wrong. Maybe it’s age etc. but I don’t feel like having hemiticrit, rbc, or blood pressure issues beyond what I already have. Also not a fan of killing my heart, liver or kidneys. To each their own though.
> 
> TRT: that’s a different story.



oh I agree top level naturals have to be much more anal in their recovery and Depending on your goals, you have a bit of leeway while enhanced. My point is the principles remain the same. To say a steroid user has no business giving a natural training advice is idiotic. You need to train hard, progress in the gym, and figure out how much volume and frequency you can recover from and make optimal progress with regardless.


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## German89 (Mar 1, 2020)

BigSwolePump said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> Lets simply accept that.



Yes.

As I am absolutely hormone free at the moment so... 

Let's face it. I get off


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## German89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Jin said:


> I get off all the time.



I bet you do.


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## Ragingmenace223 (Mar 1, 2020)

Most definitely, and i use to cycle ,but now im old so i just look at it like trt. I do about 500 mgs of sust a week and thats been about since sept and dont plan on taking a break. My blood pressure is fine and im getting blood work done tuesday to check all my levels but it all seems to be ok for me i dont get gyno and never have. Not saying it wont start but i feel like im just doing enough to enhance my mood and sex life.i ran lgd-4033 and mk-677 with it 4 two months and i must say the lgd-4033 made my muscles rock hard....the mk i had trouble with tried 3 different ones and i think proven peptides is fake so im waiting to get back on...gonna run rad-140 and mk-677 on top of the t if the guy from sarms.forsale is legit and he sends it to me like he said he would


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## The Tater (Mar 1, 2020)

Hello Tom,

i think you should do more reading and less typing. There are countless threads on this forum addressing all sorts of varieties of cycles and pct for coming off. I’m not a fan of assuming things or painting with a wide brush but I bet you would have gotten a different response if you phrased your question differently. Had you asked how many users cycle full time in lieu of what you posted, the outcome would have been different I’m willing to bet. 

Also, I wouldn’t argue with Spongy in regards to nutrition and AAS use. If you read more, you would know why. 

Anyhow, welcome to the UG and stick around because there is a lot of good info and people here.

cheers,

Tater


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## John Ziegler (Mar 1, 2020)

John Ziegler said:


> cycle = going on steroids for 3 or 4 months then going completely off or back to trt levels
> 
> blast & cruze = always staying above 250mgs then blasting higher doses for cycle durations
> 
> trt = staying under 250mgs per week



Forgot to mention one more scenario

Cobra Strike = 1000mgs or more year round


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## SFGiants (Mar 1, 2020)

rawdeal said:


> Shit ... I thought this thread was gonna be about orgasms.



Same..................


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## SFGiants (Mar 1, 2020)

tomphoenix said:


> Professionally no. They work out. They build their body. They are bodybuilders. And they use PED's. Many in perpetuity.
> 
> I fail to see what your argument entails



Incorrect, you have to be on stage and compete to be a bodybuilder just as a powerlifter has to have been on and platform and get numbers in the books to be a pwerlfter or you just train like one.

These titles are EARNED not just given!


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## rawdeal (Mar 1, 2020)

Ragingmenace223 said:


> Most definitely, and i use to cycle ,but now im old so i just look at it like trt. I do about 500 mgs of sust a week and thats been about since sept and dont plan on taking a break. My blood pressure is fine and im getting blood work done tuesday to check all my levels but it all seems to be ok for me i dont get gyno and never have. Not saying it wont start but i feel like im just doing enough to enhance my mood and sex life.i ran lgd-4033 and mk-677 with it 4 two months and i must say the lgd-4033 made my muscles rock hard....the mk i had trouble with tried 3 different ones and i think proven peptides is fake so im waiting to get back on...gonna run rad-140 and mk-677 on top of the t if the guy from sarms.forsale is legit and he sends it to me like he said he would



Nothing worse than an amateur doctor, but I'll ask anyway ... not sure how old your version of "old" is, but have you ever had a complete heart workup or do you plan on getting one sometime?  I ask because you may look at a long term diet of Test @ 500mg/week as trt, but no (professional) doctor does.  It is more like a recipe for eventual Left Ventricular Hypertrophy, one of the hypertrophies we *don't* want.  The complete workup I mentioned usually includes a Stress EKG while you're getting a contrast medium via IV.  You are then slapped into a machine asap that sorta does a CT Scan of the heart, followed by an Ultrasound of your heart, similar to what pregnant women get to monitor fetal development.  All this tells doctors much more than a basic EKG, takes a few hours, done Outpatient; it doesn't hurt, except maybe your wallet depending on your insurance.  If you're "old" now you may have more disposable money than a college kid, and this is money well spent if you're gonna be doing supra-trt levels with no plan to take a break.


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## Boytoy (Mar 1, 2020)

I do get off but it usually takes a while!!


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## rawdeal (Mar 1, 2020)

Boytoy said:


> I do get off but it usually takes a while!!



Savor the journey as well as the destination .........


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## Trump (Mar 2, 2020)

I banged the wife last night am I now a porn star?? Granted I performed like one 



tomphoenix said:


> Professionally no. They work out. They build their body. They are bodybuilders. And they use PED's. Many in perpetuity.
> 
> I fail to see what your argument entails


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## German89 (Mar 2, 2020)

Trump said:


> I banged the wife last night am I now a porn star?? Granted I performed like one


You are. Who ever you say you are.  That's the beauty of the internet 

Elite Porn Star


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## The Tater (Mar 2, 2020)

German89 said:


> You are. Who ever you say you are.  That's the beauty of the internet
> 
> Elite Porn Star



Pro Genetics


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## ComeBacKid85 (Mar 2, 2020)

Seems harder to get off on leg day. My shit gets crampy! Feet almost go into a full on stiff  cramp.  Have to stop. Switch position to hide the fact im trying to get blood back to my feet. TMI!  Only every took stims and these Guys and Gals have given me the best advice and all the motivation a person could want. So like Big Swole said. YOUR WRONG! :32 (18):


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## Deadhead (Mar 2, 2020)

I'm pretty sure your wrong


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## rawdeal (Mar 2, 2020)

I'm pretty sure M has sent him off into the ether.  He lives on in quoted posts only.


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