# What kills your gains ?



## Warteezy (Jul 28, 2021)

General discussion on what kills gains and how'd you avoid them everybody is different so id like to know for me the biggest gains killers are

1. No sleep up long hours
2. Stress 
3. Got damn cardio 

Cardio just really does it I'm cardio prejudice now


----------



## Uncle manny (Jul 28, 2021)

Alcohol


----------



## Warteezy (Jul 28, 2021)

Uncle manny said:


> Alcohol


As a non smoker or drinker I wonder how alcohol kills gains?? How it make you feel


----------



## Uncle manny (Jul 28, 2021)

I barely drink any more but used to go hard on the weekends years ago. Had a family member visiting and we decided to take her out for drinks the past weekend. Got stupid drunk. Dehydrated the shit out of me. Felt like shit for a couple days. Skipped leg day the next day and half ass my push day the following. That’s one part of it unless you’re a functioning alcoholic… On another note, alcohol interferes with protein synthesis.


----------



## Warteezy (Jul 28, 2021)

Uncle manny said:


> I barely drink any more but used to go hard on the weekends years ago. Had a family member visiting and we decided to take her out for drinks the past weekend. Got stupid drunk. Dehydrated the shit out of me. Felt like shit for a couple days. Skipped leg day the next day and half ass my push day the following. That’s one part of it unless you’re a functioning alcoholic… On another note, alcohol interferes with protein synthesis.


Oooh so dehydration can really fuck up! Muscles did not know that good catch sway


----------



## Warteezy (Jul 28, 2021)

Warteezy said:


> Oooh so dehydration can really fuck up! Muscles did not know that good catch sway





Uncle manny said:


> I barely drink any more but used to go hard on the weekends years ago. Had a family member visiting and we decided to take her out for drinks the past weekend. Got stupid drunk. Dehydrated the shit out of me. Felt like shit for a couple days. Skipped leg day the next day and half ass my push day the following. That’s one part of it unless you’re a functioning alcoholic… On another note, alcohol interferes with protein synthesis.


I'ma reply one more time for the big homie Eugene sandnow, I've seen functional alcoholic they do not look like bodybuilders


----------



## MrBafner (Jul 28, 2021)

I love my bourbon, a few shots everyday and can't say it slows me down.
Cold weather slows me down, hate training in the cold but if you can get warmed up it's great.


----------



## Warteezy (Jul 28, 2021)

MrBafner said:


> I love my bourbon, a few shots everyday and can't say it slows me down.
> Cold weather slows me down, hate training in the cold but if you can get warmed up it's great.


Same here I've noticed if I'm on the cold to long my fucking muscles shrink I've just gotten serious on this bodybuilding stuff it takes serious discipling


----------



## sfw509 (Jul 28, 2021)

Sleep definitely effects my recovery the most. Im not stressed an my cardio is usually done hours before i lift.  

Ive never been a heavy sleeper, 5-6 hours at most a night. If i do get 8 hours its the rare occasion alcohol is involved. See @Uncle manny post for how that goes.


----------



## bvs (Jul 28, 2021)

Alcohol, dehydration, poor sleep, being a little biitch in the gym etc


----------



## TeddyBear (Jul 28, 2021)

Stress/fatigue from hectic weeks.

Family drama


----------



## IsaacRobertson (Jul 28, 2021)

Lack of sleep and too much caffeine


----------



## Trendkill (Jul 28, 2021)

emotional stress usually brought on by my own doing is my number one. This has to stay in check for me. When it does progress is steady. When I go off the rails it’s a nightmare.

alcohol would be number two. I rarely drink anymore and when I do it is something very light and not more than 2.

not knowing when to deload is another big one. It’s taken me years to figure this out and understand what my body is trying to tell me. I’m still not great at this but much better than I was 20 years ago.  I gauge this mostly on my ability to stay aggressive during max lifts. I’m not talking about raging aggression or a competition level of psych but just focused determination and confidence. When this is lacking or when I’m not nervous before a heavy lift I know something is wrong and it’s time to delpad.


----------



## CJ (Jul 28, 2021)

Sleep for me. Take this week for example, 5 straight nights of sub 6 hour sleep, weight crept up all week. Last night I get a good restful night of sleep, wake up over 5 lbs less....

Oh, and that's even with ice cream before bed, and 3600+ Cals for the day.


----------



## Send0 (Jul 28, 2021)

For me... It's fear of injuring my shoulder. This has a cascading mental effect that I think that leads to me not pushing myself as hard on exercises that don't aggravate my shoulder. 

I need to get over it, and just push myself. This is where a partner to keep you honest would be helpful.


----------



## PZT (Jul 28, 2021)

diahera


----------



## Jonjon (Jul 29, 2021)

Send0 said:


> For me... It's fear of injuring my shoulder. This has a cascading mental effect that I think that leads to me not pushing myself as hard on exercises that don't aggravate my shoulder.
> 
> I need to get over it, and just push myself. This is where a partner to keep you honest would be helpful.


I’m in the same boat. Shoulder injury on the flat bench last November put my progress at a screeching halt. Seems like every time I get well and go heavy on chest day it flares up again.


----------



## PZT (Jul 29, 2021)

children and woman that are out of your league


----------



## PZT (Jul 29, 2021)

unsupportive family members


----------



## PZT (Jul 29, 2021)

secret agent haters dressed as your friend


----------



## Mind2muscle (Jul 30, 2021)

I believe stress is the almighty gains killer. I’m talking high level stress. It affects my appetite, sleep, focus, energy level and increases cortisol levels which is catabolic. Stress also brings about pain. So yea, for me stress is detrimental to my training. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Cardio killing gains is a myth .. All pro bb do cardio and a lot of it


----------



## nissan11 (Jul 30, 2021)

As already stated, vodka and keystones. I try to manage the negative effects by drinking a ton of water when I booze and being in bed for 9 hours. I never get hangovers but I still don't sleep good.


----------



## supreme666leader (Jul 30, 2021)

Ending a cycle.


----------



## Warteezy (Aug 4, 2021)

supreme666leader said:


> Ending a cycle.


Steroids or trt idk if that's the same thing how is that shit?


----------



## supreme666leader (Aug 4, 2021)

Trt is milder, you can get it at any gnc


----------



## BrotherIron (Aug 4, 2021)

Warteezy said:


> Oooh so dehydration can really fuck up! Muscles did not know that good catch sway


Also can stop protein synthesis.  There are several reasons why drinking heavily can/ will kill your gains.


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 4, 2021)

Semen


----------



## CJ (Aug 4, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> Semen


Semen=Babies≠Gainzz


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 4, 2021)

No no


CJ275 said:


> Semen=Babies≠Gainzz


Baby = stress = loss of gains


----------



## CJ (Aug 4, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> No no
> 
> Baby = stress = loss of gains


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## OZinPHIL (Aug 4, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> No no
> 
> Baby = stress = loss of gains


100% agreed haha


----------



## BrotherIron (Aug 4, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


But practicing is a great way to get your cardio in and if you don't want to work to hard have her on top doing most of the work.


----------



## snake (Aug 4, 2021)

Father time and the law of diminishing returns that can potentially end in injury. 

Hell forget gains, I'm just trying to stop the bleeding.


----------



## CJ (Aug 4, 2021)

Nothing halts gains more quickly than injuries though.


----------



## NbleSavage (Aug 4, 2021)

Poor quality / lack of sleep, for sure. Time was I'd just power through those days, often had a hard time getting warmed up or getting in the zone before a big lift. Now days, I'm a bit more mindful of what my body's ready for and adjust accordingly - longer warm-up if I need it, might not reach for a PR that session if I'm dragging arse.


----------



## PZT (Aug 4, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Nothing halts gains more quickly than injuries though.


bro my chest feels this lol


----------



## Spear (Aug 4, 2021)

Life. 

If I can get into the gym each day, I can continue my journey of progressing my body. However, life can really get in the way. Kids, work, house stuff, spending time with wife, etc. 

Sometimes I just want to drop a ton of money on a garage gym and be done with it.


----------



## PZT (Aug 4, 2021)

Spear said:


> Life.
> 
> If I can get into the gym each day, I can continue my journey of progressing my body. However, life can really get in the way. Kids, work, house stuff, spending time with wife, etc.
> 
> Sometimes I just want to drop a ton of money on a garage gym and be done with it.


Ive always been worried even if I had the perfect home gym I wouldn't train as hard some days. But if I had a set up like that I would just invite people to train at my place


----------



## Spear (Aug 4, 2021)

PZT said:


> Ive always been worried even if I had the perfect home gym I wouldn't train as hard some days. But if I had a set up like that I would just invite people to train at my place


I also think about that, I feel like part of my motivation comes from seeing other guys in the gym moving weight. But I do keep a log book, and my training style is progressive overload, so who knows. 

Wife has suggested building the gym multiple times, I just REALLY don't want to do it while this crazy price spike during covid.


----------



## PZT (Aug 4, 2021)

Spear said:


> I also think about that, I feel like part of my motivation comes from seeing other guys in the gym moving weight. But I do keep a log book, and my training style is progressive overload, so who knows.
> 
> Wife has suggested building the gym multiple times, I just REALLY don't want to do it while this crazy price spike during covid.


I get a boost from seeing even newbies making gains. Like a guy benching 225 or 315 for the first time. That shit motivates me or chicks that bust their asses


----------



## quackattack (Aug 4, 2021)

PZT said:


> Ive always been worried even if I had the perfect home gym I wouldn't train as hard some days. But if I had a set up like that I would just invite people to train at my place


It took a month or two but I feel as though I train as hard at the home gym.  You just have to get used to it.


----------



## Dungeon Dweller (Aug 4, 2021)

Alcohol is definitely my Achilles Heel. From January to July 4 I didn't have a drop and really got all cut up, it was nice. But I've gained some back now that I have the occasional beer or 8, on top of eating like crap after that binge, and poor workouts the day following. Thinking of giving up the stuff again because I was looking awesome.


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 4, 2021)

PZT said:


> Ive always been worried even if I had the perfect home gym I wouldn't train as hard some days. But if I had a set up like that I would just invite people to train at my place


Just think about bricks. Motivation right there.


----------



## Warteezy (Aug 5, 2021)

supreme666leader said:


> Trt is milder, you can get it at any gnc


Does that shit works?


----------



## supreme666leader (Aug 5, 2021)

Warteezy said:


> Does that shit works?


Yea i have 5 balls now works great


----------



## Swiper. (Aug 5, 2021)

not eating enough food.


----------



## Warteezy (Aug 5, 2021)

Give me


supreme666leader said:


> Yea i have 5 balls now works great


I might try it any serious side effects, tried buckd up from gnc it was complete bullshit a waste of 50$


----------



## Warteezy (Aug 5, 2021)

Swiper. said:


> not eating enough food.


Yep working out hard and not eating enough will make you lose weight


----------



## The Phoenix (Aug 5, 2021)

I didn’t see it on here but improper or no PCT cycle after AAS/TRT cycle.  @supreme666leader almost had it but only out “end of cycle”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 5, 2021)

The Phoenix said:


> I didn’t see it on here but improper or no PCT cycle after AAS/TRT cycle.  @supreme666leader almost had it but only out “end of cycle”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Pct or no pct when u stop most of your gains are gonna go. I need Atleast 150
Mg of test a week to maintain the muscle I gain on cycle . If not I don’t care how much u eat or how hard I train it will go


----------



## transcend2007 (Aug 5, 2021)

Unfortunately I'm an expert at fvcking up my gains ... many great answers here already ... and I would add work and missed workouts ... I believe missing workouts is the number 1 gains killer whether caused by injury ... family ... work ... or motivation ...


----------



## Skullcrusher (Aug 5, 2021)

Lack of food, water, and sleep.


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 5, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Pct or no pct when u stop most of your gains are gonna go. I need Atleast 150
> Mg of test a week to maintain the muscle I gain on cycle . If not I don’t care how much u eat or how hard I train it will go


Wouldn't that depend on  if they passed their natural limit?


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 5, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> Wouldn't that depend on  if they passed their natural limit?


What do u mean ?


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 5, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> Wouldn't that depend on  if they passed their natural limit?


Anytime u take steroids your going past your natural limits


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 5, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Anytime u take steroids your going past your natural limits


What if when starting a cycle it brings you up but you don't pass your natural limit?

Steroids aren't magic.  They don't change everything


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 5, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> What if when starting a cycle it brings you up but you don't pass your natural limit?
> 
> Steroids aren't magic.  They don't change everything


I’m gonna disagree with u that they are
Magic and they can change everything about u. They can open doors u never thought can be opened


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 5, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> I’m gonna disagree with u that they are
> Magic and they can change everything about u. They can open doors u never thought can be opened


Maybe Zilla or someone could chime in with insight?


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 5, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> Maybe Zilla or someone could chime in with insight?


Insight into what ?


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 5, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> Maybe Zilla or someone could chime in with insight?


U could agree or disagree U don’t need insight for that


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 5, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> U could agree or disagree U don’t need insight for that


I don't have enough information. 
I'm not going to agree with or disagree with you unless I can make an informed decision.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 5, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> I don't have enough information.
> I'm not going to agree with or disagree with you unless I can make an informed decision.


Your a weirdo see if you can get insight on that


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Aug 5, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Your a weirdo see if you can get insight on that


Thanks!


----------



## MrRogers (Aug 7, 2021)

Work. Im on call 24/7/365 and if im stepping into a top set of squats and my phone rings I have to take it. Seems like these Fn people always get me when they know im busy too. lol


----------



## BrotherIron (Aug 7, 2021)

MrRogers said:


> Work. Im on call 24/7/365 and if im stepping into a top set of squats and my phone rings I have to take it. Seems like these Fn people always get me when they know im busy too. lol


Damn that sucks.


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Aug 7, 2021)

FlyingPapaya said:


> Maybe Zilla or someone could chime in with insight?


I agree with Bundy. Neither of us are bullshit artists, and we have plenty in the community, who are going to sit there and lie about anabolics only giving you a slight edge or w/e. The evidence:

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/thre...and-strength-in-normal-men.22812/#post-393586
- 30 weeks of consistent training for natural beginners = 4lbs of muscle gained.
vs
- 600mg 10wk cycle + zero training = 7lbs of muscle gained. Oh, and this was measured 16 weeks after the cycle ended.

Magic.


----------



## BRICKS (Aug 7, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I agree with Bundy. Neither of us are bullshit artists, and we have plenty in the community, who are going to sit there and lie about anabolics only giving you a slight edge or w/e. The evidence:
> 
> https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/thre...and-strength-in-normal-men.22812/#post-393586
> - 30 weeks of consistent training for natural beginners = 4lbs of muscle gained.
> ...


Yeah, there's a reason people use them.


----------



## midevil (Aug 7, 2021)

#1 for me has always been getting in the high calorie diet. Being in sales when your busy meals are missed. Also, have a real issue eating all the food that it takes to get huge. I just can't eat the food it takes to continue gains.

I'm ok with it though. I've learned that I can tweak what i have pretty efficiantly.


----------



## FinalOpus (Jan 5, 2022)

IsaacRobertson said:


> Lack of sleep and too much caffeine


Caffeine makes me not want to eat and then it also interrupts my sleep. I’m starting to think the costs outweigh its preworkout benefits. Only problem is now I’m addicted to it.


----------



## Samp3i (Jan 6, 2022)

Uncle manny said:


> I barely drink any more but used to go hard on the weekends years ago. Had a family member visiting and we decided to take her out for drinks the past weekend. Got stupid drunk. Dehydrated the shit out of me. Felt like shit for a couple days. Skipped leg day the next day and half ass my push day the following. That’s one part of it unless you’re a functioning alcoholic… On another note, alcohol interferes with protein synthesis.


But you get ripped on alcohol if you drink it once and you are already lean 😂


----------



## MindlessWork (Jan 6, 2022)

Not having sex kills your gains! 😂


----------



## Jonjon (Jan 6, 2022)

MindlessWork said:


> Not having sex kills your gains! 😂


I say having too much kills it too
Drains my life force


----------



## MindlessWork (Jan 6, 2022)

Jonjon said:


> I say having too much kills it too
> Drains my life force


True that..either too little or too much will kill your gains but how much is enough most likely varies from person to person.


----------



## Jonjon (Jan 6, 2022)

MindlessWork said:


> True that..either too little or too much will kill your gains but how much is enough most likely varies from person to person.


After workout is good. Anytime from waking up to before lifting drains me


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jan 7, 2022)

MindlessWork said:


> Not having sex kills your gains! 😂


I’m sorry, when did you have “gains”?





….Or sex?


----------



## JuiceTrain (Jan 7, 2022)

Mainly just mental stress... it's a big deterrent..


----------



## notsoswoleCPA (Jan 8, 2022)

Having COVID-19 and all the complications afterward for six months managed to wreck my gains more than anything I have ever done.


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 8, 2022)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I agree with Bundy. Neither of us are bullshit artists, and we have plenty in the community, who are going to sit there and lie about anabolics only giving you a slight edge or w/e. The evidence:
> 
> https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/thre...and-strength-in-normal-men.22812/#post-393586
> - 30 weeks of consistent training for natural beginners = 4lbs of muscle gained.
> ...


Looks good on paper doesn’t work like that in real life.


----------



## Jonjon (Jan 8, 2022)

notsoswoleCPA said:


> Having COVID-19 and all the complications afterward for six months managed to wreck my gains more than anything I have ever done.


I’ve got it again. I had it in 2020, it was nothing. This round has got me down. Haven’t lifted since Monday, I’m 3/4 through a cycle, it sucks. I dread to see the final damage.


----------



## The Phoenix (Jan 8, 2022)

midevil said:


> #1 for me has always been getting in the high calorie diet. Being in sales when your busy meals are missed. Also, have a real issue eating all the food that it takes to get huge. I just can't eat the food it takes to continue gains.
> 
> I'm ok with it though. I've learned that I can tweak what i have pretty efficiantly.



Mike Mentzer was not a big eater either but he was able to tweak the gear to be able to make the gains he needed. Eating used to be an issue for me but now just used to it so it like clockwork. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 8, 2022)

Injuries


----------



## GSgator (Jan 8, 2022)

For me personally it was substance abuse.  Over the years I would make great noticeable gains just to lose them all in a binge this been a reoccurring event as long as I can remember. 

Well those days are behind me now.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 8, 2022)

GSgator said:


> For me personally it was substance abuse.  Over the years I would make great noticeable gains just to lose them all in a binge this been a reoccurring event as long as I can remember.
> 
> Well those days are behind me now.


alot of us are former or current drug users ..I cant remember the last time i lifted not high on weed


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 8, 2022)

GSgator said:


> For me personally it was substance abuse.  Over the years I would make great noticeable gains just to lose them all in a binge this been a reoccurring event as long as I can remember.
> 
> Well those days are behind me now.


now dope ill never do again as much fun as it is


----------



## GSgator (Jan 8, 2022)

Bro Bundy said:


> now dope ill never do again as much fun as it is



Yea that’s my plan as well I had to check myself into a treatment center last summer. Tried the 12 step program got a sponsor but fuck man that wasn’t for me. I’m not a religious man but I do prey  that I can keep my nose clean and I’ve got all the partying behind me it got pretty bad there towards the end.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 8, 2022)

GSgator said:


> Yea that’s my plan as well I had to check myself into a treatment center last summer. Tried the 12 step program got a sponsor but fuck man that wasn’t for me. I’m not a religious man but I do prey  that I can keep my nose clean and I’ve got all the partying behind me it got pretty bad there towards the end.


just smoke strong bud that keeps me high and away from real drugs


----------



## MindlessWork (Jan 8, 2022)

Bro Bundy said:


> just smoke strong bud that keeps me high and away from real drugs


Good bud helped me stay afloat in my struggles with depression when I was young.


----------



## GSgator (Jan 8, 2022)

My local union just took it off there drug screening requirements. So I’ve been using it for sleep in the edible form.


----------



## Campzoe (Jan 9, 2022)

Not eating adequately is probably the largest factor, especially for myself.

Family and children certainly can make things more difficult.

Lack of motivation in conjunction with not pushing yourself toward full failure/strength.

Going to a damn music festival and taking the MDMA/MDA for one spectacular night. The lethargic attitude for the next week makes me way to docile toward hard work.


----------



## IsaacRobertson (Jan 12, 2022)

FinalOpus said:


> Caffeine makes me not want to eat and then it also interrupts my sleep. I’m starting to think the costs outweigh its preworkout benefits. Only problem is now I’m addicted to it.


Same. Tried to quit lots of times, but I just can't bear the headache that comes with it.


----------



## Yano (Jan 12, 2022)

I'm a natural obsessive , so if there's an issue or some thing going on I can't directly control through money , advice or a direct application of swift and blinding violence it can pre-occupy my thoughts and just destroy a work out for me hell it can ruin an entire fucking day. I have to almost shut down and go into a type of zen practice and keep track of my breathing and returning to the one and my center. If not it will just build n build until I go full retard.


----------



## Texan69 (Jan 12, 2022)

Bro Bundy said:


> Your a weirdo see if you can get insight on that


Dude your a fucking looser crackhead seriously need some therapy. How do you handle interpersonal relationship in real life.


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 12, 2022)

I think sometimes it’s that guys aren’t taking enough gear tbh. Everybody preaches small to moderate doses but honestly if you’re afraid to really push it then you’re not going to grow as much you could.


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Jan 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Looks good on paper doesn’t work like that in real life.


Err...that study is a clinical trial involving real life dudes really lifting and really pinning. So yes, on average, those results are *literally *how it worked in real life.

In future, please take the time to actually read the data before dismissing it simply because it doesn't sit well with your pre-conceived opinion. Cheers.


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 14, 2022)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Err...that study is a clinical trial involving real life dudes really lifting and really pinning. So yes, on average, those results are *literally *how it worked in real life.
> 
> In future, take the time to actually read the data before dismissing it simply because it doesn't sit well with your pre-conceived opinion. Cheers.


Okay buddy don’t assume in the future.
Also I think we’ve all literally met it know guys who blast gear that look like they’ve never lifted so much as a damn soda can. Cheers. 
Sorry works in a lab not in real life


----------



## CJ (Jan 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Okay buddy don’t assume in the future.
> Also I think we’ve all literally met it know guys who blast gear that look like they’ve never lifted so much as a damn soda can. Cheers.
> Sorry works in a lab not in real life


Nope. You don't get to attack staff like that.

You're banned for 1 day, please conduct yourself properly upon your return.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 14, 2022)

People coming up to you while training and want advice about something or to tell you how good you look and mind offering them advice. Of course your training is effected.
Then you speak with them a couple of weeks later and take notes that they didn't even do anything with your advice and just doing the same BS stuff they always do that does nothing.
Then they come up and try to talk again while your training and you just wave and keep moving on.


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 14, 2022)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Err...that study is a clinical trial involving real life dudes really lifting and really pinning. So yes, on average, those results are *literally *how it worked in real life.
> 
> In future, please take the time to actually read the data before dismissing it simply because it doesn't sit well with your pre-conceived opinion. Cheers.


Did you take the time to actually look at the data of this small study?
Fat free mass isn’t simply muscle it’s water and glycogen. They didn’t even do muscle biopsy’s . Yep testosterone can increase water retention.
The study also shows the guys who trained natural for 16 weeks basically gained nothing. Doesn’t sound like the training or diet was all that great. Again looks one way on paper in a lab but the data isn’t all that great and doesn’t work that way in real life. Other wise why would anyone need to train or eat properly wheh they could just up there gear? I’ll repeat in real life it’s easy to find guys taking gear that look like they’ve never walked past a gym. Try not be so condescending and dismissive. 
The study is not that great science mod


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Jan 14, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Did you take the time to actually look at the data of this small study?
> Fat free mass isn’t simply muscle it’s water and glycogen. They didn’t even do muscle biopsy’s . Yep testosterone can increase water retention.
> The study also shows the guys who trained natural for 16 weeks basically gained nothing. Doesn’t sound like the training or diet was all that great. Again looks one way on paper in a lab but the data isn’t all that great and doesn’t work that way in real life. Other wise why would anyone need to train or eat properly wheh they could just up there gear? I’ll repeat in real life it’s easy to find guys taking gear that look like they’ve never walked past a gym. Try not be so condescending and dismissive.
> The study is not that great science mod


I analyzed the data in detail here. I'll let that speak for itself vs your defensive, and baseless, ad-hominem attacks.

Measurements were taken *16 weeks after the cycle had ended. *Water retention doesn't last that long. You should probably take your own advice here and "take the time to actually look at the data of this small study".

4lbs, on average, of muscle gained in 30 weeks is actually pretty standard for natural beginners. Sure, the genetically blessed will respond better than this (6lbs-ish) but they're not the average. You would know this stuff if you worked with natties, had extensive experience as one yourself, or studied data related to natties.

I'm not aware of many examples of real life beginners taking 600mg and then getting gold standard measurements to see what's up. Having said that, sure - plenty of real life examples of guys who take gear and look like shit. Most of that has to do with dietary indiscipline - not a lack of muscle growth from the anabolic & training stimulus. They could be growing just fine, but you'd never know when you're covered in layers upon layers of fat.

I wasn't trying to be condescending or dismissive, seriously, I was trying to be informative. I even said "please" when asking you to read the source you're dismissing first. You respond by calling me a bitch. Even this post is filled with passive-aggressive bullshit. Cut that out and it's actually a perfectly fine response.

In future, don't get offended when there is really nothing to be offended about. This isn't Twitter. Keep an open mind and accept that you probably don't know everything (no one does - this science mod included). If this is too much to ask then that's fine - I'll just ignore you and we can both continue to browse here with no issues. Nothing gained, nothing lost


----------



## make (Jan 16, 2022)

Stress is the number one gain killer for me. It hurts gains in many ways. Negatively impacts my sleep, appetite, desire to drink a little too much, etc. It sometimes even kills my enjoyment of being in the gym.


----------



## ATLRigger (Feb 6, 2022)

Cardio shouldn’t kill ur gains.  I can’t imagine many here are burning more than 200-300 calories during a cardio session, and those are the ambitious ones.  
Try riding a bicycle for 30 miles with a group, or skiing six hours straight, burning upwards of 700 calories then tell me ur cardio is slowing ur gains. 
Even that can be mitigated by eating more, but the timing of it can get tricky as u may need to eat in the middle of the night.


----------



## OzzyongRep (Feb 16, 2022)

.


----------



## OzzyongRep (Feb 16, 2022)

Always wondered how badly smoking affects gains, I’m a smoker and seem to be doing eetswa


----------



## Ad_Suspicious801 (Feb 16, 2022)

for me its no sleep and not eating well i can lose 10pound in a week if i dont have these 2 on point.


----------



## RiR0 (Feb 16, 2022)

OzzyongRep said:


> Always wondered how badly smoking affects gains, I’m a smoker and seem to be doing eetswa


I’m not sure but I’ve never noticed. I smoked from age 10-35. I’ve vaped for the last 2 years.


----------



## RiR0 (Feb 16, 2022)

I think what kills most peoples gains is not focusing on getting as strong as possible in bodybuilder rep ranges and not upping calories as they gain weight. Also being afraid of losing their abs. Not eating enough protein. Too much time/volume in the gym and not enough focus on recovery. 
You’re as big as the amount of food you can utilize, how strong you are and your dose


----------



## GymRat79 (Feb 16, 2022)

Cardio. I made a promise to myself not to do any during the winter this year since I’m bulking. I will add it back in when I start my cut.


----------



## The Phoenix (Feb 18, 2022)

Not going to the gym the next 3 months. Stopped at the end of my cycle only to spend the next 3 month recovering from a molar implant (my 2nd one -so I should not be an issue for me). I plan to do a lot of gardening and hiking with the dogs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------

