# Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??



## Illtemper (Sep 15, 2012)

Heres the deal with my question, I have been taking around 125-150mg for HRT every 5 days for about 1year now..  Everything has been fine my t range is actually 863 last i was tested which was about 3 weeks ago.. Well i was feeling sick so i went to a new doc cause i lost my previous ins and now have to go see someone else. Well he did a blood test on me for my cholestrol and what not and he called to today saying my good cholestrol was low my bilirubin(?) was high, my liver count was slightly high and hemoglobin and hemocrit was high as well.  RIGHT AWAY he blames the Test and says i shouldnt be on test and i should stop for a few weeks and get another test... 

Mind you this guy told me i should be taking anti depressants and not T when i told him i was depressed and thats why i finally got a Testosterone test done.. I told him i was 126 and he said yeah thats low but taking Test is bad for you........... I looked at him like YEAH YEAH STFU ALREADY, he got the hint...   

Now, of course i didnt tell him about the peptides i was taking or the Deca that is flowing in the system. I wasnt expecting to get a blood test.... Either case, how would you look at this? Do i entertain his request and stop everything or should i just stop the deca and lower my t and go for another test?  My hemoglobin is constantly in the upper range and thats why i go get "oil changes" every 56 days...   Im scared to fall into a slump and be depressed and worse then i was when i started if i stop now...


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## DF (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Before I'd drop the test.  I'd drop the peptides & the deca.  Also it's difficult to say about the blood work w/o knowing if the ranges were just mildly out of wack or totally fucked up.  If the ranges are only slightly above or below normal like I said I'd drop the deca & peptides then get bloods done in a few weeks.  

I believe that you'd keep alot of your gains after going back to your trt dose.  I just finished up my first blast since being on trt about 7 weeks ago.  Now I am back to my trt dose & also Var at 50mg/day.  I decided to use the Var along with my trt dose to drop some fat & mantain my gains while running a lower cal diet.


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## Illtemper (Sep 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

That's one thing I don't know, this doc is kinda of a wack job so I would assume the levels are probably just slightly off. I havent seen the results myself, when I asked where I was at he talked around the question.....  Just kept telling me taking test is bad. Lol! 

I think I will simply just drop the peptides and deca for a bit.. I'll lower my t dose (maybe), just to see how it goes.

For any other time I went lower then 100mg e5d I feel shitty so I don't think I'll play around lower than that...


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## DF (Sep 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*



Illtemper said:


> That's one thing I don't know, this doc is kinda of a wack job so I would assume the levels are probably just slightly off. I havent seen the results myself, when I asked where I was at he talked around the question.....  Just kept telling me taking test is bad. Lol!
> 
> I think I will simply just drop the peptides and deca for a bit.. I'll lower my t dose (maybe), just to see how it goes.
> 
> ...



I ran 500mg/week of test C. For 15 weeks


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## BigFella (Sep 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

First up I got frustrated at the medical profession. But then . . . you treated him a bit rough too.

He's looking at the numbers and they are screwed - how much we don't know. (For God's sake, guys, don't let them keep secrets from you - they are YOUR numbers! I get my results BEFORE the doc gets them.)

But all he can see is a guy who is taking T and his cholesterol is whacked. Who knows, he might have seen a few like you, so he's getting a bit jaundiced by the whole thing. 

I'm with Dfeaton.  Stop the peptides and the deca for a month or two, live real clean, go back and get your bloods done again. Leave the T where it is - if you're not in the high range you'll probably get hit with depression again.

I hadn't heard Dfeaton's blast level - its exactly what I would do. And I reckon that a couple of months of super-clean living followed by that blast - could be excellent.

(If you are already super-clean: sorry!)


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## RowdyBrad (Sep 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

You should keep the gains at TRT dosage. I tried 50mg e84q and found it was not enough for me. I would keep your test where it is and drop peps and deca, spend some time in the sun and get rechecked later on.


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## Cashout (Sep 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Get a copy of your blood work. Call tomorrow morning and have the nurse fax it to you. Don't take "no" for an answer.

As for the course of action,based on what you said, we need to know what you CBC, lipids, and AST/ALT look like at this point.

My concern, based on what you wrote, is that you are potentially entering a high risk area for a cardiac episode.

How old are you?

Most guys, like myself, who are in our 40s really need to be concerned about three factors - 1) Hemocrit %, 2) HDL/LDL profile, and 3) BP.

These three factors, when all present in conjunction, create the potential for the "perfect storm" for a cardiac episode. I am sorry to say I am not "over stating" or "exaggerating" the risk of this combination. I have seen it first hand.

Depending on what you numbers show, it may be advisable to cut back ASAP.


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## Illtemper (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Got some results from the doc,

Billirubin total----2.3 (0.2-1.2mg\dl)          HIGH 
HDL Cholesterol--- 34 (>or = 40mg\dl)      LOW
LDL "              " ---121 (<130mg\dl)        GOOD
ALT-----------------61 (9-60 U\L)              High

Red Blood cell count ----5.96 (4.20-5.80 million\ul)   HIGH
Hemoglobin--------------19.2 (13.2-17.1 g\dl)           HIGH
Hematocrit--------------- 56.2 (38.5-50.0 %)            HIGH

These are the issues that my doc was refering to. Im assuming that the red blood cell count and hemoglobin\ hematocrit are simply higher due to  deca being in the mix... 

Billirubin, is one i dont know much about. All my other tests never flagged this so im not sure exactly what to think about it. Can someone explain it to me in normal people language??

Also my HDL being slightly low, im assuming that would be more diet related than anything else??? I need to consume more good fats?

I have dropped the deca and peptides for now, I wouldnt be suprised if it is the peptides sxrewing up my system, i always tested fine until i started peps... Even with taking deca before i was ok, Hemoglobin level always goes up but hence the reason for donating every 56 days,...........    

Also as cash pointed out. my blood pressure is ok im an in range....


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## Cashout (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Your hemocrit number of 56% is very high. I would be concerned if I were you and get that straightened out ASAP. Most physicians will tell their patients to drop the HRT treatment once crit is above 52%. If you are giving blood every 56 days and still managing to keep your crit % above 52% you really need to reconsider what you are doing and the risks involved.

Crit is the % is a measure of blood composition. It is somewhat similar to viscosity or "thickness" of one's blood. Your's is mighty thick and that can really pose problems - i.e. stroke potential.

That written, why in the heck are you running a cycle of test and deca with these issues?


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## Illtemper (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Like I said my last blood test I was ok which was a couple months ago before I started peps and deca.. I think it's simply the peps or deca that brought up my crit level. I have dropped both. 

I can be honest, I've been taking deca to help some joint issues and to gain some size. The peps I was also taking to try to help build size, strength And help repair... 

I guess the question now is should I simply stop everything? Or should I continue taking cyp at a minimum (100mg e7days) just to help from getting side from stopping test??  I'm thinking of just stopping everything for a couple weeks to see what my blood will look like..  Advise??


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## Cashout (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Cut it back to 50 mg every 84 hours - Mon AM & Thur PM.

Give it several months and see if you can bring that crit back below 50%.



Illtemper said:


> Like I said my last blood test I was ok which was a couple months ago before I started peps and deca.. I think it's simply the peps or deca that brought up my crit level. I have dropped both.
> 
> I can be honest, I've been taking deca to help some joint issues and to gain some size. The peps I was also taking to try to help build size, strength And help repair...
> 
> I guess the question now is should I simply stop everything? Or should I continue taking cyp at a minimum (100mg e7days) just to help from getting side from stopping test??  I'm thinking of just stopping everything for a couple weeks to see what my blood will look like..  Advise??


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## DF (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Donate as soon as you can & what Cashout said.  Deca is one of those compounds that can increase your crit levels.


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## Illtemper (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Next time i can donate in oct 9th, i am already scheduled to do that.. I guess deca just brings it up that fast for me...     Well i'll make sure to keep it to 50mg twice a week and donate blood before i go back in for the blood test to see where my levels are at... Also i know increasing the amount of water i drink will help too.. I can admit i have been slacking in that department. Now that its getting cold here, its hard to drink 1-gal of water a day.........

THANKS FOR ALL THE ADVISE!!!!


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## BigFella (Sep 20, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

High bilirubin = jaundice, just like a newborn.

(As an aside, I think this thread is a good example to support Cashout's other thread why TRT guys shouldn't be blasting - or doing any other stuff like deca - unless it is really well thought out.)


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## Illtemper (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

OK i got some of the results and some are good and one so far is in question....

here are the following.

RBC count--------------5.48           4.20-5.80      GOOD!
Hemoglobin------------17.6           13.2-17.1       Alot better   it was  19.2
Crit---------------------50.5           38.5-50.0%    MUCH BETTER!
ALT---------------------25              9-60              GREAT, it was at 61
AST---------------------39              10-40            ok

Now what is in question is the bilirubin levels  they went up to 2.8 now for some reason........

Bilirubin range is 0.2-1.2  i am at 2.8, a month ago i was at 2.3. Why is this number going up??  The doc is blaming the testosterone and say my test level is way to high, i said what was it and he says 1200.. Now i question him cause how could my t level be that high by only taking 50mg every 84hours and i was actually about 5 days out from the last injection when i was tested.. He say he doesnt know and i should stop all treatment and see an endocrinolgist.....   

So Im sitting there in the office thinking how could this be possible, I ask for a copy of my recent labs and right on the bottom it say 
PENDING TESTS    ESTROGEN, TESTOSTERONE.. ( these results wont be in till this thursday)

This doc didnt even have my recent test results for test or E2... Yet he is telling me that the test is harming my liver.... I asked can it be something else, right away he said no the test is what does that...  

So im going to see an endocrinlogist next thursday for a better understanding of what is going on. Now as i said before is past posts i eat clean and dont drink. I dont do any other drugs either.  I am worried now because this doc says the bilirubin is showing my liver is having trouble. I dont know enough about this to know for myself what this actually means. I have a hard time believing the testosterone is causing the issue..  I assume its not diet related since i mainly eat lean ground turkey, chicken breast, brown rice..........

Now im not looking forward to going through an endo from all the horror stories ive heard of from others but this doc will not fill out or sign the recent physical form i need to send into Maximus for my Hrt..................


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## Cashout (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Okay, no offense to your physician Ill, but he is lost on this one!

Bilirubin is being created by a reduction reaction in your body that is working to reach an equilibrium in your CBC profile. 

Simply, your CBC has adjusted downward significant to approximate your body's "natural range." The previous indicators in your CBC - Crit, ect were very high - the Bilrubin is increased proportionally as a result of your body's adjustment toward your normal CBC profile. It is riding itself of the excess hematological substances.

Totally expected - he should know this! Any first year resident will see this in the basic hematology profile and recognize it.

This is no cause for alarm - your numbers look much better and your body is restoring itself to a normal stasis.


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## Four1Thr33 (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Good Luck bro.   I am very intrested in yiur situation as I have high levels as well


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## Four1Thr33 (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

I don't know why I can't see the LiKE tab for your comment cashout but thanks for that info


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## Illtemper (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*



Cashout said:


> Okay, no offense to your physician Ill, but he is lost on this one!
> 
> Bilirubin is being created by a reduction reaction in your body that is working to reach an equilibrium in your CBC profile.
> 
> ...




I really wish i knew this when he said it..... I dont know how you know so much about this but i sure am glad you do and that you are on here!!   I told you this new doc is lost! he admits it that when it comes to hormones he absolutely knows nothing......  

Cash what you just posted makes more sense than anything he said, with taking less test I couldnt understand why this level went up if it was the test causing the issue like he says.... 

Thank you!! I was really getting worried about this...


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## BigFella (Oct 17, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Cash is dead right again. "the Bilrubin is increased proportionally as a result of your body's adjustment toward your normal CBC profile." It happens like that. Just like in babies when they are born, and most do just fine.

I sense that you are wary of endos - be very wary. They know almost nothing, and, unlike some ordinary doctors, they don't have the guts to admit it. So don't waste your money.


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## bubbagump (Oct 19, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Food for thought:

Half of all doctors graduated in the bottom 50% of their class....


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## Rip (Oct 19, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Alt is only 1 point above the upper range. That could happen if you were on antidepressants.  

As for the Hemoglobin, check this out:
Nandrolone decanoate is indicated for the management of the *anemia *of renal insufficiency and has been *shown to increase hemoglobin and red cell mass.* Surgically induced anephric patients have been reported to be less responsive


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## Illtemper (Oct 26, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*



Cashout said:


> Okay, no offense to your physician Ill, but he is lost on this one!
> 
> Bilirubin is being created by a reduction reaction in your body that is working to reach an equilibrium in your CBC profile.
> 
> ...




You'll love this one Cash, i went and seen the endo today. See seen my levels for bilirubin and she couldnt explain it, I told her what you wrote here and see just looked at me for a bit and shook her head NO, than said, thats what causes this.. I asked what causes it then, she had no answer and now she wants me to see a liver doc to make sure im ok cause she doesnt know why the bilirubin was high like i posted before on my last test......   

So now i know why everyone dislikes endos, I told her what i take with test, hcg and AI. She asked why would i take hcg or an AI.  I found out in the endo world they do not prescribe AI's or hcg...... She said if i wanted that i would have to see a different doc cause thats not part of what they do. I was confused by this and asked why would you give someone 200mg of test and NOT give them an AI to help keep the Estrogen down. She had no answer, just said she has prescribed test to many patients and no one has a problem. LOL!! 

Anyways she wants me to stop taking everything for 2 months to get my body to reset and get baseline test to see if all my levels come down more and to "make sure" i have low t and not miss diagnosed......   With a test level of 126 i said i dont care what part of the day i took the test it should never drop that low.... Than she said she wanted to make sure its my testies not creating the test and not the signal from the brain... I dont know how to take this, I was laughing inside but on a serious note it makes ya wonder but even though my high crit and globin levels are going down i wanna make sure im healthy..... 

On the recent blood test i got done, i just finally got the estrogen and test results. I think Quest dianostics fucked up cause i didnt take any test for about 10days before the test and i went at 9am, The results was 1233......  How the fuck could it be that high by not being on any test for 10days?? At that point i was taking 125mg e5d and always on the 5th day i was at 863-900something..  estrogen was at 33....

Anyways i think i might entertain the idea and take 2months off and see what happens.. First she wanted 3months off but i told her my concerns of how bad i was before and i dont wanna go back into that state... She than said 2 months should be enough. I will admit i think part of it being hard for taking a 2month break is the habit of doing this for over a yr now......   I wont mind not being a pin cusion for a bit but I am really worried about falling into a depression again...........

Now after we estabilished the fact im not a retard just taking anything and i know what im talking about, she seemed pretty cool. She did bring up some valid points and info i will look into. Plus she is very good looking!!  


WHAT DO YOU BRO'S THINK????


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## Christosterone (Oct 26, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

I guess im the Doc on call on this board....first is your bilirubin conjugated or unconjugated (direct or indirect), or what are there respective numbers, if its conjugated, its post hepatic obstruction, such as a bile duct obstruction, gallstones, or even cancer. If its unconjugated, its prehepatic, which can be caused by some sex hormones, or a myriad of other drugs, or even hemolysis...let me know what it is.


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## Christosterone (Oct 26, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

but your bili is not really elevated much in comparison to other blood work...so it is probably incidental


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## Illtemper (Oct 26, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*



Christosterone said:


> I guess im the Doc on call on this board....first is your bilirubin conjugated or unconjugated (direct or indirect), or what are there respective numbers, if its conjugated, its post hepatic obstruction, such as a bile duct obstruction, gallstones, or even cancer. If its unconjugated, its prehepatic, which can be caused by some sex hormones, or a myriad of other drugs, or even hemolysis...let me know what it is.



Total is 2.8
Direct is 0.5
Indirect is 2.3 

All my other number have come down from the previous test where my hemo was 19.2....

What I don't get unless the last test was a false reading, how could my test level go up to the highest I've ever tested without taking anything for 10+days and only taking 100mg e5d before the 10day break??? 

I would be ecstatic if all of a sudden my body started producing test again especially at those numbers... Let be real though, that's not the case. Now it took this lab 3 week to do this test for my testosterone and estrogen, did they mess up? I'm thinking Maybe I should get retested through lab corp and just get the female panel to see if its the same.. 
I only question the results cause like I said, I've never tested so high especially 5 days after my last pin let alone 10..........


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## BigFella (Oct 26, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

_"I am really worried about falling into a depression again..........."_

That I understand. I'd understand if you said "scared" too. I was. I also saw an endo who knew nothing, who wanted me to stop using T in a _cream _- i.e. it's gone in three days maximum - and he wanted me to stop for two months.

An idea: Are you still taking HCG? (Sorry, I should have read the whole thread but am rushing.) If you are, then that may be the reason why your T tested so high. Like I said, just an idea.


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## Christosterone (Oct 26, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*

Indirect can increase from steroid use, also from hemolysis...u have any genetic disorders in family? Indirect is prehepatic


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## Illtemper (Oct 27, 2012)

*Re: Couple Different ??    DOC ISSUES & Cruising-- Blasting, keeping gains??*



Christosterone said:


> Indirect can increase from steroid use, also from hemolysis...u have any genetic disorders in family? Indirect is prehepatic



No, no problems in the family at all. Well with that anyways..


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