# lean bulk???



## jyoung8j (Oct 1, 2013)

So from everyone on board wanted ur opinion on what's ur best lean bulk or wht gear do u consider using for a lean bulk.. I'm going to start working with a ifbb pro nov and he wants me to do a lean bulk he won't inform me wht he has in mind yet.. he says I have size just need to lean and add mayb a little.. I was thinking like test and npp wht u guys use..


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## mabdelrasoul (Oct 1, 2013)

how about maybe test tren var. it will def help in terms of leaning out n adding size


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## #TheMatrix (Oct 1, 2013)

long cycle?   eQ.


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## grind4it (Oct 1, 2013)

For whatever its worth; I've worked with a pro in the past. My recommendation is to not acquire any gear until he tells you the program he has for you. I literally had to shelf a cycle. My guy gave me a cycle, diet and training program. 

Just my two cents


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## Hero Swole (Oct 1, 2013)

Test tren var 
Example:
Test 600mg wk
Tren 400mg wk
Anavar 100mg ed

Or

Test 1g wk
Tren 500mg wk
Anavar 150mg ed


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## Spongy (Oct 1, 2013)

Be careful, just because they're pro doesn't mean they know a damn thing...  trust me on that.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 1, 2013)

Spongy said:


> Be careful, just because they're pro doesn't mean they know a damn thing...  trust me on that.



^^^this x2. Pros hire coaches for a reason. A lean bulk cycle to me would probably be one with few aromatizing compounds.


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## jyoung8j (Oct 1, 2013)

Yea I'm not buying any gear till he tells me wht to get.. he has quiet a few clients he works with and the transformations are awesome.. plus the one on one I'm sure will help.. I've lost a lot on my own about 50lbs but now need help to fine tune it.. this was to just basically hear wht everyone else has used in lean bulks..


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## grind4it (Oct 1, 2013)

Agreed. My take was/is that just because you are genetically gifted does not make you and expert on every body type. I will say, it's a great experiance and I did learn a lot. Like Spongy said, just take everything with a grain of salt.



Spongy said:


> Be careful, just because they're pro doesn't mean they know a damn thing...  trust me on that.


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## jyoung8j (Oct 1, 2013)

Yea if he didn't have a few clients I would def not be listening much lol but since he has  clients and competes and has a degree in tht field sure he knows more then me haha


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## TheLupinator (Oct 1, 2013)

Test + Tren + Dbol or A-drol


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## Spongy (Oct 1, 2013)

There are certainly some pros out there that know a lot and are worth listening too.  But I've also had some clients come to me from working with pros and some of the stories they tell me are nightmarish.  Egos all around and unwillingness to budge or listen to reason.


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## Seeker (Oct 1, 2013)

Lean bulks are tough for a lot of people including myself nutrition wise. Basically you are eating strictly clean, bodybuilding foods like you would during a fat loss program except you are eating more of it, a lot more sometimes.  Cycle wise you Can't beat test, tren and ad can oral like dbol or anadrol for a lean bulk.


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## hulksmash (Oct 1, 2013)

1g deca+750mg-1g test+1mg ED Letrozole is what I currently use for a lean bulk

When I say "lean bulk":
-test gives me thickness+vascularity+fat loss
-deca gives me HELL OF A LOT fullness and joint relief
-Letro ED cuts ALL water and reveals more striations

Thus, a "lean" bulk..the compounds allow me to bulk, not eat entirely clean, and lose fat/keep fat away as I bulk

Now for rant:

The people who say bulk on tren have no idea; tren raises metabolism too much to get the most net amount of lbm

QUICKEST/MOST EFFICIENT ROUTE:
-bulk for 2-3 years on test, deca, eq, dbol or a combination of any of those/all of them (u better be competing big to do em all)

-keep letro on hand for water loss, t3/clen for fat loss/keeping fat at bay

-use gh if you can..that allows you to bulk and keep a 6-pack (a la pros)

Then for a year jump on test, tren, mast, eq, anadrol (any combination, at least 3)+letro+gh+t3+clen+DNP (optional)

Lose all that excess fat you want....then

MAINTAIN THE RESULT FOR AS MANY DECADES AS POSSIBLE

3-4 years you'll hit your goal and be done, maintaining will be all that's left

Versus 10 years and never hitting your goal (ie pretty much majority on bb'ing forums lol)


Good luck!!


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## hulksmash (Oct 1, 2013)

Spongy said:


> Be careful, just because they're pro doesn't mean they know a damn thing...  trust me on that.



Definitely

Especially if you're running multiple injects, never come off, and on high gh

You can just about eat whatever the **** you want and keep a 6 pack


For those who cycle on/off or blast/cruise+gh with average genetics (read:gear respon genetics), then the game is different


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## Seeker (Oct 1, 2013)

I have no idea? I'll say this, I don't claim to be a know it all but I speak from " EXPERIENCE" we are not talking about mass bulk but a lean bulk.all due respect hulk, again I'm not a know it all. Even after 30 years of lifting I still have a lot to learn but I've done lean bulks with tren and test in the past with damn good results.


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## hulksmash (Oct 1, 2013)

Seeker said:


> I have no idea? I'll say this, I don't claim to be a know it all but I speak from " EXPERIENCE" we are not talking about mass bulk but a lean bulk.all due respect hulk, again I'm not a know it all. Even after 30 years of lifting I still have a lot to learn but I've done lean bulks with tren and test in the past with damn good results.



Ah crap, I didn't mean to sound like a dick :/ sorry

I was just getting at "You can't serve two masters at once"

People talk of lean bulks, slow bulks, etc where they are trying to lose fat AND build good amount of muscle

Gear allows you to do that to a great degree, but you're gonna half-ass one of those areas if you try to lose fat+build musle (ie lean bulk)

So, most time saving, efficient, QUICKEST route to your goal:

Bulk for 2-3 years, then cut for 1 year...then maintain for as many decades as you can

Have a CONCRETE goal and reach it, don't know why the hell so many people waste time..4-5 years to reach a goal is much better than 10+

Then again, most people don't even spend the time to make a concrete goal lmao

/rant

PS I didn't mean to sound mean/rude Seeker, sorry if i did


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## Seeker (Oct 1, 2013)

It's all good bro. Thanks for your response I really appreciate it.  Shit bro I've been straight bulking for the last 4 years myself! Lol yeah even with a so called lean bulk the goal is to gain maximum muscle with minimum fat but you will stain gain a small percentage of fat. 

The best way to to do a lean bulk is to use a caloric intake of 115-120% of your total daily expenditure. What a ****in pain In the ass all this shit is but it works. Lol thanks again bro.


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## jyoung8j (Oct 1, 2013)

So hulk u recommending just bulk get big as **** then cut for a yr?? Tht sounds like torture..lol fill me in on wht a short lil guy tht wants to b massive should do.. eat 4000k and take a lot of gear and then worry bout cut later?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 1, 2013)

jyoung8j said:


> So hulk u recommending just bulk get big as **** then cut for a yr?? Tht sounds like torture..lol fill me in on wht a short lil guy tht wants to b massive should do.. eat 4000k and take a lot of gear and then worry bout cut later?



You can't just say eat 4000calories and bulk. What If your TDEE is 4500calories? That 4000 will become a cut. Plug your stats into a BMR calculator or use the Katch-McArdle formula if you have an accurate estimate of BF%. Multiply your BMR by an activity factor (1.2-1.4 if sedentary, 1.4-1.6 if moderately active, and 1.6+ if very active/athlete). To bulk you'll need to eat more than the TDEE number. These calculations are estimates but pretty good ones. If you eat at that level for a week or two and don't gain weight, bump up calories by 200-500 a day every other week until you start gaining.


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## jyoung8j (Oct 1, 2013)

Mine is about 2500...I've done tht b4 not first time I've tried to put size on or cut down I understand the formulas.. was using tht as a reference..


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## hulksmash (Oct 1, 2013)

jyoung8j said:


> So hulk u recommending just bulk get big as **** then cut for a yr?? Tht sounds like torture..lol fill me in on wht a short lil guy tht wants to b massive should do.. eat 4000k and take a lot of gear and then worry bout cut later?



I recommend the same shit as always: KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

If you're not at the level where you know how much food it takes without counting, then:

-find your daily calorie expenditure, and aim 500-1000 calories above that

-pick a waist size number and don't go past it

The latter is the amount of bf YOU are comfortable with putting on...unless you're on gh you're gonna add a little body fat

Say youre 5'6...I wouldn't go past a 34" waist when bulking (pre-gear me allowed myself to get up to a 37" waist at 212lbs..worth it then  lol)

Then after 2-4 years (all dependent on genetic response to gear, if you come off, etc...if you never came off and wanted smaller than pro size, goal can be reached easy in 2 years)...

CUT! Throw in the exotics, up the gh if you're on it, go calorie deficit mode-do some keto if you wanna DNP it up-lean the **** up

Then after you're done cutting (6-12 months, dependent on same variables and if you stuck to a deficit in calories)..

Maintain until your body says "no mas" and you became a slightly smaller version (e.g. Arnold in his 60s vs arnie in 30s)

Good luck


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2013)

I call bullshit in being in caloric deficit for a year.


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## PFM (Oct 2, 2013)

Pallets Of Brusselsprouts


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2013)

PFM said:


> Pallets Of Brusselsprouts



Penises for Mike


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## hulksmash (Oct 2, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> I call bullshit in being in caloric deficit for a year.



It shouldnt ever take a year, but most gain too much bf during bulk and/or arent consistent with the dieting to get to single digit bf/deep ab striation levels


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> It shouldnt ever take a year, but most gain too much bf during bulk and/or arent consistent with the dieting to get to single digit bf/deep ab striation levels



I'll agree with that. I see guys cutting for a month bulking for a month then rinse and repeat. And they seem to go nowhere.

Your average joe however isn't going to maintain single digit bf% with deep striations. 

Are you talking show prep strategy here?


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## Seeker (Oct 2, 2013)

To get deep striations having a body fat level of 9, 8'or even 7 ain't gonna do it. Deep striation levels you have to rid any remaining water that is in between your muscles and you have to get down to 3 and 4 bodyfat levels which we all know can't be sustained for more than a couple of days.


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## jyoung8j (Oct 2, 2013)

Yea I dnt wanna gain anymore bf then already have lol


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## hulksmash (Oct 2, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> I'll agree with that. I see guys cutting for a month bulking for a month then rinse and repeat. And they seem to go nowhere.
> 
> Your average joe however isn't going to maintain single digit bf% with deep striations.
> 
> Are you talking show prep strategy here?



True dat, i dont even know why i chose to say single digit

I was goin for "good cuts with abs", like 10-12% bf

Next time i'll read over before i hit post 

But yea, see way too many spinning wheels and not moving


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## metsfan4life (Oct 3, 2013)

agree with hulk above. dont go too wild


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## Jada (Oct 3, 2013)

At this moment im eatin clean and having a cheat meal once or twice a week. In my opinion young eat clean have a cheal meal once in a blue and lift ur ass off. Now when going to a cut is straight CLEAN. Ur main focus should b adding size with not over doing it in bf. If u want to do what hulk said with bulking for 2 yrs and adding bf over bf then cut just to remind u , u will have to WORK UR ASS OFF TO BURN THAT BF OFF AND IT WONT COME OFF QUICK AS THEY SAY.


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## jyoung8j (Oct 3, 2013)

Na I def dnt wanna do a yr cut lol.. I basically did tht when started back up and was a lot of work.. just wanna watch bf to go up anymore.. ill prob just do bulk for 4mths then cut like traditional ways just eat cleaner..


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## hulksmash (Oct 3, 2013)

jyoung8j said:


> Na I def dnt wanna do a yr cut lol.. I basically did tht when started back up and was a lot of work.. just wanna watch bf to go up anymore.. ill prob just do bulk for 4mths then cut like traditional ways just eat cleaner..



To clear some things up:

-bulking is not for becoming a fat ass ("bf on bf")
-fat gain is inevitable, but how much is purely individual genetics
-save the exotics for cutting
-force feed/use fast food/use candy if you have to but SPARINGLY
-6 months is the MINIMUM amount of time a bulk should be...muscle gain is a slow process; I hate to even say only 6mos
-gh makes the bulk hella easier...talking abs still showing bulks

-cutting is all about a deficit, don't get too fancy
-if you're on gear and didn't become a fat ass, cutting won't take too long (read:months)
-again gh makes it easier


Remember, whatever in life, keep it simple

And that this shit is my view...don't wanna bust anyone's balls

Good luck buddy


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## jyoung8j (Oct 4, 2013)

Guess this is y the huge dudes never come off gear..lol


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 4, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> To clear some things up:
> 
> -bulking is not for becoming a fat ass ("bf on bf")
> -fat gain is inevitable, but how much is purely individual genetics
> ...



That's good advice there hulk... One thing that made a difference for me in gaining size... Well two really.

Stop with the 10 to 12 reps of everything. Overwhelm your muscles with heavy weights on compound movements - then do your isolations.  A lot of people look to the older guys like say PFM for example. At his age you won't see him deadlifting and squatting like I do. But he did at one point. And now he just has to maintain that muscle.  But he put the work in to build it a long time ago.  Do your squats, bench, OHP and deads in the 3 to 5 rep range.  Allow up to 3 minutes rest between sets. 

Second - I eat when I train. Seriously. Some junk while you train will make a difference.  I eat pop tarts or graham crackers between sets of heavy lifts.  You are not going to get fat doing that, but the muscles will stay much more full which will inspire you to keep killing it.


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## Hero Swole (Oct 4, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> That's good advice there hulk... One thing that made a difference for me in gaining size... Well two really.
> 
> Stop with the 10 to 12 reps of everything. Overwhelm your muscles with heavy weights on compound movements - then do your isolations.  A lot of people look to the older guys like say PFM for example. At his age you won't see him deadlifting and squatting like I do. But he did at one point. And now he just has to maintain that muscle.  But he put the work in to build it a long time ago.  Do your squats, bench, OHP and deads in the 3 to 5 rep range.  Allow up to 3 minutes rest between sets.
> 
> Second - I eat when I train. Seriously. Some junk while you train will make a difference.  I eat pop tarts or graham crackers between sets of heavy lifts.  You are not going to get fat doing that, but the muscles will stay much more full which will inspire you to keep killing it.



If i eat in between sets of aquatting or deadlifting ill puke my ass off.

I hear alot of old guys saying that you dont need heavy weight to grow kind of hypocritical. Like you said they did at some point they already have that base. If your a skinny guy lifting some lames ass weight taking forever to do a single rep 4 seconds up and 4 seconds down (ive seent it) good luck trying to get big.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 4, 2013)

Hero Swole said:


> If i eat in between sets of aquatting or deadlifting ill puke my ass off.
> 
> I hear alot of old guys saying that you dont need heavy weight to grow kind of hypocritical. Like you said they did at some point they already have that base. If your a skinny guy lifting some lames ass weight taking forever to do a single rep 4 seconds up and 4 seconds down (ive seent it) good luck trying to get big.




Dry stuff like graham crackers won't come back up on you. Trust me. When you're deadlifting 555 for a triple like I did last saturday, things reappear sometimes. Crackers are no problem. 

And yeah, the old guys are full of shit sometimes when giving advice. They forget what got them to where they are.  The good ones are honest.


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## hulksmash (Oct 4, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Dry stuff like graham crackers won't come back up on you. Trust me. When you're deadlifting 555 for a triple like I did last saturday, things reappear sometimes. Crackers are no problem.
> 
> And yeah, the old guys are full of shit sometimes when giving advice. They forget what got them to where they are.  The good ones are honest.



LISTEN TO THIS SHIT

I didn't gain 90+lbs doing 10-12 rep shit

**** no, it came from heavy ass weight..."everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but don't wanna lift no heavy ass weight"

I'm talkin 1-8 reps for years..

Then force feeding...2lbs steak with 1lb pound of fries...or $80 meals FOR MYSELF at IHOP of steak, pancakes, eggs, sausages, hash browns

POB ain't telling you bs, I'll tell ya that


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## jyoung8j (Oct 4, 2013)

I like pop tarts!!! Lol


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## hulksmash (Oct 5, 2013)

jyoung8j said:


> I like pop tarts!!! Lol



Now I know I'm the exception/crazy/insane one here, but I'm bulking...here's an example of my intake today:

Breakfast-rockstar energy drink, 10 fried eggs (runny yolk ftw)

Lunch-2 Wendy's chicken sandwich (just cheese/ketchup), 2 large fries, large DR pepper

Supper- 2 packages of Knorr's Chicken flavored pasta noodles 

Pre bed snack- 20 slices of microwaveable bacon and 16oz chocolate millk

Around 4000 cals and around 240g protein

Keep it simple like that, eat a shitload, and enjoy your gains*

*you might have to eat cleaner LOL I stay pretty lean with shit food, eg avatar


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## jyoung8j (Oct 5, 2013)

Yea I couldn't eat tht way...lol I pack on bad weight to easy.. I eat pretty clean with one cheat meal of pizza on fri.. only cuz my girl likes it.. I def wanna put size on but dnt want the fat.. now eating egg whites pb wheat toast and 6 other meals of 6oz chicken breast and 1/2 cup brown rice 1 cup broccoli. .and 2 protein shakes..


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## hulksmash (Oct 5, 2013)

jyoung8j said:


> Yea I couldn't eat tht way...lol I pack on bad weight to easy.. I eat pretty clean with one cheat meal of pizza on fri.. only cuz my girl likes it.. I def wanna put size on but dnt want the fat.. now eating egg whites pb wheat toast and 6 other meals of 6oz chicken breast and 1/2 cup brown rice 1 cup broccoli. .and 2 protein shakes..



Substitute chicken for red meat-pork, beef, buffalo, etc...more calorie dense

Add more starches, thus more clean cals

Don't overdo the cals tho, clean or not


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## jyoung8j (Oct 5, 2013)

Yea right now I'm trying to cut few pds b4 I start bulk.. I have a bulk diet plan and its about 3400cal . This one I'm on now is like 2400..


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