# Primobolan vs NPP



## newNimproved (Oct 18, 2021)

I'm looking to run a nice lean mass stack with minimal sides, as Ive been dealing with a lot of anxiety in my life lately. I'm thinking about one of the two stacks.

250 test and 600 NPP
250 test and 600 primo

Goals are lean mass, strength, and to feel good while doing it. I'm leaning more towards primo since I don't want to worry about any potential prolactin/estro/deca dick with the NPP, and I don't want to run dopamine agonists due to the anti anxiety meds I'm on.


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## Migmaster (Oct 18, 2021)

Primo if you're having anxiety already


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## CJ (Oct 18, 2021)

I've heard Primo is great... If it's real.


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## Migmaster (Oct 18, 2021)

Expensive. But guys I know love it at 600-800 mg week. I can't afford it. lol cause I'm a poor boy


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## Jonjon (Oct 18, 2021)

Nandrolone puts me in a very mellow mood. But I’ve heard it makes some depressed.


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## wsmwannabe (Oct 21, 2021)

Jonjon said:


> Nandrolone puts me in a very mellow mood. But I’ve heard it makes some depressed.


nand makes me incredibly paranoid and aggitated, but I found that low dose MENT completely obliterates my mood sides on both nand and tren


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## Monkipalo (Oct 21, 2021)

Primo all the way


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## JC Grifter (Oct 23, 2021)

My next lean bulk cycle I’m planning something similar. You can grow in a deficit with Primo, so it should be a great addition to a lean bulk. This will be my first time using primo and I’m pumped. 

I was debating on adding NPP as well but I want to see what Primo really does.


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## Methyl mike (Nov 23, 2021)

Both look terrible in my opinion. Nandrolone should be run 2:1 test/nandrolone otherwise the nandrolone will make you feel like crap, you'll probably get fat and have a limp dick. 

The primo is even worse, at that dose it will shut your estrogen down and make you weak. I know, it happened to me. I was on more test and it still got me.

I would say same 2/1 ratio applies and be strict with it, test/primo and keep dbol handy to spike estro quick if needed

Arnold's fave stack was dbol with primo, no wonder why.


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## supreme666leader (Nov 24, 2021)

Methyl mike said:


> Both look terrible in my opinion. Nandrolone should be run 2:1 test/nandrolone otherwise the nandrolone will make you feel like crap, you'll probably get fat and have a limp dick.
> 
> The primo is even worse, at that dose it will shut your estrogen down and make you weak. I know, it happened to me. I was on more test and it still got me.
> 
> ...


thats my exact plan for the summer, also tempted to add in bit of tren but thats a while from now we'll see what happens.


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## JC Grifter (Nov 24, 2021)

Methyl mike said:


> Both look terrible in my opinion. Nandrolone should be run 2:1 test/nandrolone otherwise the nandrolone will make you feel like crap, you'll probably get fat and have a limp dick.
> 
> The primo is even worse, at that dose it will shut your estrogen down and make you weak. I know, it happened to me. I was on more test and it still got me.
> 
> ...


I’ve never run test higher than Deca/NPP. And not even 1:1. Nandrolone was always much higher and never had any issues. I think it’s very individual what your experience will be since we don’t all metabolize these hormones the same.


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## Jonjon (Nov 24, 2021)

JC Grifter said:


> I’ve never run test higher than Deca/NPP. And not even 1:1. Nandrolone was always much higher and never had any issues. I think it’s very individual what your experience will be since we don’t all metabolize these hormones the same.



I haven’t tried nandrolone higher yet but felt best 1:1.

Ran 200/200, then 600/600
Nandrolone agrees very well with me.


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## JC Grifter (Nov 24, 2021)

Jonjon said:


> I haven’t tried nandrolone higher yet but felt best 1:1.
> 
> Ran 200/200, then 600/600
> Nandrolone agrees very well with me.


The way I look at it is this… whatever works for you, is the best way to do it. It all comes down to how you metabolize testosterone. Different people get different testosterone levels off the same dose so doing the same mg of each compound doesn’t necessarily mean 1:1 ratio at the end of the day.  

If to get test levels at 2500 someone needs 500mg and I only need 250mg… me doing test/Deca 250/500… would be equal to that other person doing 500/500
That’s just my theory. I think we focus too much of the proper “test dose” vs what the optimal test levels are for growth.


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## Jonjon (Nov 24, 2021)

I agree.


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## JC Grifter (Nov 24, 2021)

Jonjon said:


> I agree.


Glad it’s not just me lol


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## Blange89 (Nov 26, 2021)

For me, 400 primo goes along way. No need for super high doses. However I run 500 test minimum. Primo makes me feel great and keeps my estrogen in control


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## Bro Bundy (Nov 26, 2021)

u cant compare steroids like their two fighters going into a battle ..They both have pros and cons and are totally different


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## TomJ (Nov 29, 2021)

Kevin21 said:


> good advice!


Hey brother, some really interesting comment history you have there. Some really invaluable, insightful contributions. 


Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## ToolSteel (Nov 29, 2021)

Methyl mike said:


> Both look terrible in my opinion. Nandrolone should be run 2:1 test/nandrolone otherwise the nandrolone will make you feel like crap, you'll probably get fat and have a limp dick.
> 
> The primo is even worse, at that dose it will shut your estrogen down and make you weak. I know, it happened to me. I was on more test and it still got me.
> 
> ...


Common statement, but it's not something that should be stated as an absolute fact.
2:1 works well for many; not all. For me I have near zero sides keeping my test at my 100/wk trt level  and stacking NPP or tren on top of it at 500-600/wk (as compared to running higher test). Everyone's results are going to be slightly different. Currently trying out 800 NPP on top of my trt to see how it goes, no complaints so far. Pecker still works fine. 
I know Noble has ran similar cycles in the past with good results.


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## cavorite (Dec 30, 2021)

My understanding was that primo doesn’t aromatize. Not that acts as an AI. Does it actually lower estrogen?


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## Send0 (Dec 30, 2021)

cavorite said:


> My understanding was that primo doesn’t aromatize. Not that acts as an AI. Does it actually lower estrogen?


I believe it has higher affinity for SHBG, and therefore indirectly lowers estrogen. Similar to how other DHT derivatives do it (masteron, proviron, etc).


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## flex22 (Jan 5, 2022)

The above is correct about the primo. Been doin this almost 12 years now and really got into primo heavy the last two years. And I hate seeing the test haters giving advice like  250 test 400-600 primo. U wanna feel like death go ahead and do that. But if you wanna feel great mentally emotionally and physically have your test higher . I’ve always kept it that way no matter what I’m doing . Estro was given a bad name by uneducated “followers” . Its needed for growth it’s needed for so many natural hormonal processes. Obv to much can be a bad thing but that’s what bloodwork’s does too. My first run with primo I did a 600 test 400primo and felt great . Jus start someone and keep an eye on things.


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## Wunderpus (Jan 6, 2022)

newNimproved said:


> I'm looking to run a nice lean mass stack with minimal sides, as Ive been dealing with a lot of anxiety in my life lately. I'm thinking about one of the two stacks.
> 
> 250 test and 600 NPP
> 250 test and 600 primo
> ...


If it is real/reputable Primo, it is superior for harder gains, but less mass gained overall. Also, it's way harsher on the hairline... 

NPP is somewhat helpful on your joints and has less side effects overall. I wouldn't worry about prolactin-related issues on 600mg's NPP, I'd be more concerned about having erectile dysfunction from your test being much lower than the NPP.... For myself, and MANY users, running lower test than nandrolone leads to erectile issues.


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## Methyl mike (Jan 6, 2022)

ToolSteel said:


> Common statement, but it's not something that should be stated as an absolute fact.
> 2:1 works well for many; not all. For me I have near zero sides keeping my test at my 100/wk trt level  and stacking NPP or tren on top of it at 500-600/wk (as compared to running higher test). Everyone's results are going to be slightly different. Currently trying out 800 NPP on top of my trt to see how it goes, no complaints so far. Pecker still works fine.
> I know Noble has ran similar cycles in the past with good results.


Yeah I do not doubt your experiences at all, I was offering my err opinion? If you look at what I wrote and imagine a calm level headed person wrote it I think it works.


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## RiR0 (Jan 6, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Both look terrible in my opinion. Nandrolone should be run 2:1 test/nandrolone otherwise the nandrolone will make you feel like crap, you'll probably get fat and have a limp dick.
> 
> The primo is even worse, at that dose it will shut your estrogen down and make you weak. I know, it happened to me. I was on more test and it still got me.
> 
> ...


I never knew a particular steroid could make someone probably get fat. This whole time I thought it was a caloric surplus. Curios though through what mechanism does high nandrolone change the law of thermodynamics? 
I must be an enigma because I never got fat from running 1200mg of deca solo. I also didn’t get the infamous deca dick. 
I actually stayed pretty tight and full and energy levels were good. 
I like high test normally but I’m not dogmatic and don’t think it’s the only way.


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## Methyl mike (Jan 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I never knew a particular steroid could make someone probably get fat. This whole time I thought it was a caloric surplus. Curios though through what mechanism does high nandrolone change the law of thermodynamics?
> I must be an enigma because I never got fat from running 1200mg of deca solo. I also didn’t get the infamous deca dick.
> I actually stayed pretty tight and full and energy levels were good.
> I like high test normally but I’m not dogmatic and don’t think it’s the only way.


People tend to get a softer fuller look "wet bulking" I guess you could call it from deca. Sounds like you had a good run with it, that's great. I'm not the first to point out it's easy as fuck to get fat and squishy looking running deca but hey, while we have a beast in our midst I have a question, Mr enigma, were you a condescending faggot before or is this new you an unintended side effect? Either way you can go right to hell. And take your limp dick with you.


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## RiR0 (Jan 7, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> People tend to get a softer fuller look "wet bulking" I guess you could call it from deca. Sounds like you had a good run with it, that's great. I'm not the first to point out it's easy as fuck to get fat and squishy looking running deca but hey, while we have a beast in our midst I have a question, Mr enigma, were you a condescending faggot before or is this new you an unintended side effect? Either way you can go right to hell. And take your limp dick with you.


Do you always post nonesense like “you’ll probably get fat from a certain compound”? Do you always post about shit you’ve never done and no experience with? As far being a faggot, not sure what my sexual orientation has to do with anything. I’m not gay but if I was I’m not sure how it would be an insult. I’ve seen you post stupid shit on meso before where you didn’t actually anything to back shit you said then either. Do you think about other mens dicks often? I’d be willing to bet you do. If you’re not a fat tub of shit then you won’t look soft, you’ll be fuller and tighter. You should try actually dieting and getting lean then you’ll understand. Without the extra estrogen there to help increase prolactin most of these things won’t be issues.


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## TODAY (Jan 7, 2022)

Congratulations, gentlemen!

You've both just won today's award for most ridiculous escalation of an otherwise civil discussion. Truly, this has been an incredible display of thin-skinned bitchery.


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## TODAY (Jan 7, 2022)

As for the topic at hand,

For most, nandrolone is a superior compound in terms of packing on size and strength. This will be largely predicated upon diet and training variables, but primo just doesn't seem to build mass at the same rate as nandrolone. That being said, primo also has a FAR better safety and side-effect profile, both in the short and long term.


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## Methyl mike (Jan 11, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Do you always post nonesense like “you’ll probably get fat from a certain compound”? Do you always post about shit you’ve never done and no experience with? As far being a faggot, not sure what my sexual orientation has to do with anything. I’m not gay but if I was I’m not sure how it would be an insult. I’ve seen you post stupid shit on meso before where you didn’t actually anything to back shit you said then either. Do you think about other mens dicks often? I’d be willing to bet you do. If you’re not a fat tub of shit then you won’t look soft, you’ll be fuller and tighter. You should try actually dieting and getting lean then you’ll understand. Without the extra estrogen there to help increase prolactin most of these things won’t be issues.


Wow gosh you are like a fucking encyclopedia with legs. Thank God you have arrived. Godspeed.


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## RiR0 (Jan 12, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Wow gosh you are like a fucking encyclopedia with legs. Thank God you have arrived. Godspeed.





Methyl mike said:


> Wow gosh you are like a fucking encyclopedia with legs. Thank God you have arrived. Godspeed.


I’m just glad I help you


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## Methyl mike (Jan 12, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’m just glad I help you


To honor your arrival today I pinned 900mgs deca with 500 cyp 100 mast

Going to repeat every 3 days or so until something noteworthy happens

So 1g test with 1800mgs deca and masteron sprinkled here and there as I deem appropriate. I've not run deca higher than test this will be interesting. 

Of course bit of GH and when I work back up to at least 5 ius I'll add in slin. 3ed for now, my fingertips are already getting icey. Yay for icey fingers...


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## RiR0 (Jan 12, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> To honor your arrival today I pinned 900mgs deca with 500 cyp 100 mast
> 
> Going to repeat every 3 days or so until something noteworthy happens
> 
> ...


Be careful all that deca will make you fat(ter)


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## Methyl mike (Jan 12, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Be careful all that deca will make you fat(ter)


I'm not fat now.
Question- deca vs npp is 600mgs npp as potent as 1800mgs of deca? I havent tried NPP yet and in fact never gone over 600mgs a week of deca. So here is your chance to share some knowledge, I want to get big as possible. Good genetic responder. Diet is good. I'm not fat either look at my avatar tell me how fat you think I really am. So what do you think I should do I admit I'm not the most highly experienced with nandrolone. I was gaining fine running 1g test 600mgs deca something inside me is urging me to bump the nandrolone and either keep test the same or lower it I'm not totally sure what to do. Deca seems much more affordable than npp...cost does matter for me.


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## Send0 (Jan 12, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> I'm not fat now.
> Question- deca vs npp is 600mgs npp as potent as 1800mgs of deca? I havent tried NPP yet and in fact never gone over 600mgs a week of deca. So here is your chance to share some knowledge, I want to get big as possible. Good genetic responder. Diet is good. I'm not fat either look at my avatar tell me how fat you think I really am. So what do you think I should do I admit I'm not the most highly experienced with nandrolone. I was gaining fine running 1g test 600mgs deca something inside me is urging me to bump the nandrolone and either keep test the same or lower it I'm not totally sure what to do. Deca seems much more affordable than npp...cost does matter for me.


NPP and nandrolone Decanoate have roughly the same molecular mass. The ester weight difference is something like 4% between the two.

I believe for every 100mg of nandrolone Decanoate you get 64mg of nandrolone.

For every 100mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate you get 67mg of nandrolone.


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## Charger69 (Jan 12, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Be careful all that deca will make you fat(ter)



Deca is considered a wet compound and you hold a lot of water. It doesn’t really make you fat. I actually use MK677 on deca so that I eat more. 
Remember, any AAS can be used for cutting or bulking- your diet determines that. Obviously, the wet compounds are normally not used during cutting due to the water weight that is added. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Send0 (Jan 12, 2022)

Charger69 said:


> Deca is considered a wet compound and you hold a lot of water. It doesn’t really make you fat. I actually use MK677 on deca so that I eat more.
> Remember, any AAS can be used for cutting or bulking- your diet determines that. Obviously, the wet compounds are normally not used during cutting due to the water weight that is added.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe @RiR0 post was sarcasm in response to a post from Methyl Mike.


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## Charger69 (Jan 12, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I believe @RiR0 post was sarcasm in response to a post from Methyl Mike.



Damn, I’m not used to all this sarcasm. I feel like the shielded child. 


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jan 12, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> I'm not fat now.
> Question- deca vs npp is 600mgs npp as potent as 1800mgs of deca? I havent tried NPP yet and in fact never gone over 600mgs a week of deca. So here is your chance to share some knowledge, I want to get big as possible. Good genetic responder. Diet is good. I'm not fat either look at my avatar tell me how fat you think I really am. So what do you think I should do I admit I'm not the most highly experienced with nandrolone. I was gaining fine running 1g test 600mgs deca something inside me is urging me to bump the nandrolone and either keep test the same or lower it I'm not totally sure what to do. Deca seems much more affordable than npp...cost does matter for me.


That's a hefty cycle Mike. Do you ever take a break or just permablast? As long as I've seen you on forums you seem to be running gear. Maybe I missed a cruise dose IDK.


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## Methyl mike (Jan 12, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> That's a hefty cycle Mike. Do you ever take a break or just permablast? As long as I've seen you on forums you seem to be running gear. Maybe I missed a cruise dose IDK.


I have had quite a bit of off time I don't cruise I stop everything cold turkey. In the last year at least 4 months were totally off. I dont lift or eat like a bodybuilder I stop everything. It coincides with my depressive cycles from being bipolar. I cycle up and down very predictably. I know you are on the longevity side of things and I'll get there. Was planning to compete this year in June and see how that goes. I'll be 42 in june, my days of being able to blast and dream of competing are ending whtlether I want them to or not. It freaks me out quite frankly. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do...


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## Methyl mike (Jan 12, 2022)

Send0 said:


> NPP and nandrolone Decanoate have roughly the same molecular mass. The ester weight difference is something like 4% between the two.
> 
> I believe for every 100mg of nandrolone Decanoate you get 64mg of nandrolone.
> 
> For every 100mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate you get 67mg of nandrolone.


I read that this morning so I'm thinking does the shorter half life make the difference? So what's the equivalency work out to be? All I know from experience is that deca takes for me about a month to really get going. I'm wondering if npp is really that much better and at what equivalent dose? I liked 600mgs I ran that for quite some time. Didnt see much if any side effects. I pinned my deca all at once for the week. I kind of wanted to flip flop from a high test base with deca at about 70% and flip flop to lower test but higher deca I'm just not sure how much of each plus I was reading taenien (I probably misspelled his name) saying deca does not require a test base and that nandrolone can do all the essential functions in your body that test normally does. So I'm even .ore confused.


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## Send0 (Jan 12, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> I read that this morning so I'm thinking does the shorter half life make the difference? So what's the equivalency work out to be? All I know from experience is that deca takes for me about a month to really get going. I'm wondering if npp is really that much better and at what equivalent dose? I liked 600mgs I ran that for quite some time. Didnt see much if any side effects. I pinned my deca all at once for the week. I kind of wanted to flip flop from a high test base with deca at about 70% and flip flop to lower test but higher deca I'm just not sure how much of each plus I was reading taenien (I probably misspelled his name) saying deca does not require a test base and that nandrolone can do all the essential functions in your body that test normally does. So I'm even .ore confused.


ml for ml, mg for Mg .. You'll have more hormone released into the system per week with NPP vs Deca.

That isn't to say one is better than the other... It's just the only difference I see that can actually be quantified.

Everything else I believe is dependent on the individual.


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## Charger69 (Jan 14, 2022)

Nandrolone base is where it’s at! So there!!!


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## Jonjon (Jan 14, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> To honor your arrival today I pinned 900mgs deca with 500 cyp 100 mast
> 
> Going to repeat every 3 days or so until something noteworthy happens
> 
> ...


Keep us posted!
I’m curious about running deca real high with low, or no test some day. I heard on a podcast last week that Mentzer ran deca alone at 2.7g per week at one time. I know that’s out there but I think it’d be interesting 

The guy said without test, there’s no bloat 
He runs everything without test though


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## Charger69 (Jan 14, 2022)

Jonjon said:


> Keep us posted!
> I’m curious about running deca real high with low, or no test some day. I heard on a podcast last week that Mentzer ran deca alone at 2.7g per week at one time. I know that’s out there but I think it’d be interesting
> 
> The guy said without test, there’s no bloat
> He runs everything without test though



The water retention is from the deca. The test without an AI will increase your estrogen which results in water also. 


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## Charger69 (Jan 14, 2022)

Mike- I don’t know if you are running an AI but be careful with the water retention. If your ankles show indentations from your socks, you are exhibiting endema. If you have it in your legs, you probably have it around your heart- not good. Watch your BP please. You wait too long and your system starts shutting down. 
I ran 1500 test and 800 deca ( no AI) and had to drop to 1300 because I had endema. 


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## Jonjon (Jan 14, 2022)

Charger69 said:


> The water retention is from the deca. The test without an AI will increase your estrogen which results in water also.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have to run ai with my test. 
I don’t get much if any bloat on deca, as long as my estradiol is in check with my test. 
Never ran deca over 500 though. Looking forward to taking it higher next time.

I’ve got my aromasin dialed in perfect at 12.5mg per day with 525 test. Upped to 750 test and I don’t feel like that’s enough ai for me. I’m a pretty high aromatizer. Been a couple weeks and I’m a little puffy and flushed in the face.


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## Charger69 (Jan 15, 2022)

Jonjon said:


> I have to run ai with my test.
> I don’t get much if any bloat on deca, as long as my estradiol is in check with my test.
> Never ran deca over 500 though. Looking forward to taking it higher next time.
> 
> I’ve got my aromasin dialed in perfect at 12.5mg per day with 525 test. Upped to 750 test and I don’t feel like that’s enough ai for me. I’m a pretty high aromatizer. Been a couple weeks and I’m a little puffy and flushed in the face.



Just out of curiosity….. why do you use aromasin?


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## Jonjon (Jan 15, 2022)

Charger69 said:


> Just out of curiosity….. why do you use aromasin?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Healthier than adex 
Doesn’t lower HDL and raise LDL for one
I feel much more healthy on it, good sex drive


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## RiR0 (Jan 15, 2022)

Jonjon said:


> Healthier than adex
> Doesn’t lower HDL and raise LDL for one
> I feel much more healthy on it, good sex drive


Also increases igf.


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## Methyl mike (Jan 24, 2022)

Jonjon said:


> Keep us posted!
> I’m curious about running deca real high with low, or no test some day. I heard on a podcast last week that Mentzer ran deca alone at 2.7g per week at one time. I know that’s out there but I think it’d be interesting
> 
> The guy said without test, there’s no bloat
> He runs everything without test though


So far so good. Had a flare up of gyno I expected it because I had come off everything and crashed, I threw a little letro in the mix (very small amount) gyno is up nder control now. I look well like I eat I guess, which hasn't been the cleanest. I think I'm liking what is happening, nice fullness and roundness to my muscles my diet is definitely on point but only recently. Will keep this going and see how I shape up. I will have a better feel for the cycle around end of February. So far so good.


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## Methyl mike (Jan 30, 2022)

I am impressed. @RiR0   came through. Deca is proving to be a winner and I even feel better mentally desire to train has returned and in the mirror I really like what I'm seeing. In fairness I haven't kept to schedule with my shots (I HATE injecting myself) so I've been on 500mgs cyp 900mgs deca 100mgs mast prop for a little while now. With humalog before most carb meals (5-7 ius only) haven't been running growth bjt will jump back on any day now.

Overall body feels great I'm actually not getting fatter and mentally I'm really in a good place most of the time. Little darkness but I'm not obsessing over crashing my car into a wall at high speed every day so things look good.


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## 69nites (Jan 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I believe it has higher affinity for SHBG, and therefore indirectly lowers estrogen. Similar to how other DHT derivatives do it (masteron, proviron, etc).


I think it commonly gets that reputation because the way to sell fake primo is to put a primo label on a bottle of mast e.


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