# HRT Improvement Advice



## victorperry (Oct 20, 2012)

Hey guys, I’m looking for some advice on where you think I can improve my HRT.  I’ll try not to make this post too long but if I miss some info please call me on it as I value input from guys with longer experience with HRT than I have.
Goal: Want to keep test levels at normal/high range and continue making muscle gains from lifting.

Background: I have always had low test levels even in my teens.  First time I was test (early 20s) I was barely at the low end of the normal range and my levels steadily dropped after that.  I was unable to find a doctor willing to prescribe HRT until last year (am 40 now).  I started out using Androgel then started learning more and decided to try injections.  Currently on injections which provide a much more level and solid feel than Androgel did.

Blood work prior to starting any HRT: 
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 40.7 L (46.0-224.0 pg/mL)
TESTOSTERONE, BIOAVAILABLE 78.5 L (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
IRON % SATURATION 18 L (20-5- % calc)

Current: I was on Androgel about 9 months then switched to injections which I’ve been on about 3 months (much better!).

Workouts: Doing a 4x a week heavy program called Y3T bodybuilding.com and seeing some good gains I’d like to keep going.  Up to 6’1” 226 from 200 over past 6 weeks; some fat but more muscle than it usually is for me.

Protocol: Day 1: HCG 500 units, Day 2: Testosterone Cypionate 200MG, Day 3: Anastrozole 1.1mg, Day 4: nothing, Day 5: repeat.

Current blood work:
TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL,MALES 1180 H (241-827 ng/dL)
ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM 177 H (130 OR LESS pg/mL) 
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.31 (4.20-5.80 Million/uL)
RDW 15.5 H (11.0-15.0 %)

Thoughts:  I like the test level this high but my estrogen is higher than it should be.  My doctor says estrogen should be 130 or less.  What are your guys thoughts on how low I should aim for with estrogen and how to best get it lowered?  Also, any other thoughts on what I can do to improve the above with my goals in mind?
Thanks all for your time and input!


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## TR90125 (Oct 20, 2012)

When was your blood drawn in relation to your most recent Test injection?  From an HRT standpoint, 200mg E5D seems like a lot.  I'm surprised after 3 months your total test level didn't come back as >1500.  

A lot of folks around here subscribe to more frequent injections of lower amounts which may alleviate some of your estrogen related issues.  I inject every 84 hours 50mg of test and 600 IU's of HCG.  I take .25mg of Adex on average once a week and my estrogen is rarely over 20-25.  I recently started backing down on test, dropping to 40mg and down to 400 IU's of HCG to see how low I could drop my test before I noticed any negative side effects associated with low T, although I do not plan on letting it drop below 800.  I always test right around 1100-1200 on my current protocol.


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## Cashout (Oct 20, 2012)

200 mg every 5 days is causing significant aromatization.

99% of the guys I've seen doing HRT do not need more than 100 mg every 84 hours.

Reduce your test downward and you'll likely find it remedies your issues.


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## BigFella (Oct 21, 2012)

I'm like you.  I like my T high - I'm almost exactly what you are. When I back off the T and get it into range I can't think as clearly. I aromatise a bit so take 1mg Adex per week spread into four doses. My E is too high, mainly because I often forget the Adex.

So your Q is about E. if you like your T high and are prepared to take an AI then go for it. If you don't want to have to depend on an AI then you'll have to back off the T.


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## 63Vette (Oct 21, 2012)

Aromisine 12.5 mg eod. I suggest you use ManPower's. 

You can't have it both ways- you can't drive your test up and not have your estrogen levels rise. There is a ratio your body tries to maintain through homeostasis.

Enjoy! 
Vette


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## victorperry (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks for all the posts but I don't understand why you all seem to think I'm not taking AI.  I take Anastrozole 1.1mg as part of my routine which they just told me to up to 4x a week instead of 2x.

So, no, I'm not trying to have it both ways.  I am taking AI along with the level of test i'm taking to try and get my E down.  Just looking to see if anyone had more input on how else I can get E down more.  At this point I'm going to see how increasing the AI helps then go from there.

If any other advice please let me know.


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## corvettels3 (Oct 30, 2012)

Simple.. Read Cashout's threads. You will find the answers.


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## BigFella (Oct 30, 2012)

victorperry said:


> Thanks for all the posts but I don't understand why you all seem to think I'm not taking AI.  I take Anastrozole 1.1mg as part of my routine which they just told me to up to 4x a week instead of 2x.
> 
> So, no, I'm not trying to have it both ways.  I am taking AI along with the level of test i'm taking to try and get my E down.  Just looking to see if anyone had more input on how else I can get E down more.  At this point I'm going to see how increasing the AI helps then go from there.
> 
> If any other advice please let me know.


My bad on this one - I did miss the AI. As I said above I like my T at about the level you're at. If it was me I'd raise the AI buy 60% or so for a while. I'll agree with Corvettels3 - Cashout is gold. Read everything he has written - you'll know more than most endos.


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## victorperry (Oct 30, 2012)

BigFella said:


> My bad on this one - I did miss the AI. As I said above I like my T at about the level you're at. If it was me I'd raise the AI buy 60% or so for a while. I'll agree with Corvettels3 - Cashout is gold. Read everything he has written - you'll know more than most endos.



Hey BigFella,  no problem, thanks for the post!  I doubled my AI so I take it 4x a week instead of 2x.

BigFella and Corvettels3, I'll check Cashout's threads.

Really appreciate your guys input. thanks.

Have been making some gains again too so things must be getting in order.  Just want to get them as balanced as I can for health and gains.


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## BigFella (Nov 2, 2012)

victorperry said:


> Hey BigFella,  no problem, thanks for the post!  I doubled my AI so I take it 4x a week instead of 2x.
> 
> BigFella and Corvettels3, I'll check Cashout's threads.
> 
> ...


Mate, it's so good to be able to help.


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