# Terrorist Attacks in Paris



## NbleSavage (Nov 14, 2015)

150+ confirmed dead in at least 4 coordinated attacks, death toll likely to increase.

RIP to the deceased and stay strong, La Ville Lumière - we are with you.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/


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## Milo (Nov 14, 2015)

Holy ****!!!


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## StoliFTW (Nov 14, 2015)

Mother****ers..


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 14, 2015)

Ya know, I am not one of the people who walks around equating muslims with terrorists but jesus christ when every one of these vicious attacks on civilians occurs, its done by a ****ing muslim. 

Tolerance and understanding is not what they want. Tolerance and understanding is not what will stop them.


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## Luscious Lei (Nov 14, 2015)

As you can imagine I've been bombed with texts when the news broke up, it was around 7am here and it took me a while to understand why I was getting them since they were not very clear and I was still dozzing.
From the French news website I'm checking we are talking about 7 attacks, 117 deaths, 120 wounded 60 of them being in critical state. More than half of the deaths (76) have taken place in the concert Hall shooting. Le Bataclan is a small concert hall and there were around 1500 people in there.


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## Milo (Nov 14, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Ya know, I am not one of the people who walks around equating muslims with terrorists but jesus christ when every one of these vicious attacks on civilians occurs, its done by a ****ing muslim.
> 
> Tolerance and understanding is not what they want. Tolerance and understanding is not what will stop them.



No doubt. They're psychotic religious freaks that only want to kill and destroy. A real ****ing plague. I used to think most of them were okay and there were just some assholes in the bunch but they are in every ****ing headline. Getting real hard to be tolerant.


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## Yaya (Nov 14, 2015)

It's awful

God bless them all, poor people

ISIS is about to get fukked up


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## Beedeezy (Nov 14, 2015)

Yaya said:


> It's awful
> 
> God bless them all, poor people
> 
> ISIS is about to get fukked up


I hope you're right!


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## aragorn1500 (Nov 14, 2015)

This truly breaks my heart.


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## stonetag (Nov 14, 2015)

It is time to lay siege to this organization.


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## don draco (Nov 14, 2015)

Islam is a plague.  It's a political ideology whose aim is to destroy civilization as we know it.  You can argue as much as you'd like about how Islam is "the religion of peace," but it's all PC bullshit. Anybody who makes that argument is absolutely ignorant.  Their "religion" breeds hatred and evil. Take some time to read the Quran and you'll fully understand why over 150 people were killed in France today.  It's time for the world to finally wake up and put an end to the endless violence and destruction that Islam creates.   A devout muslim is more dangerous than any weapon.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 14, 2015)

There were attacks in Beirut as well.


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## Yaya (Nov 14, 2015)

Yes, doc is right

These isis/isil idiots are killing everyone..  Americans,  Europeans, Asians, christians, jews and muslims.

It's bad..


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## DieYoungStrong (Nov 14, 2015)

French President Hollande says there will be "a war without pity". 

One thing about France....when they actually fight, they fight to win. Hopefully they unleash the French Foreign Legion on ISIS. 

Meanwhile, Obama is letting more Syrian refuges into America. Yes, I know that not all the refugee are bad, but let me ask this: Is it worth saving 10,000 Syrians knowing there will be at least a few ISIS infiltrators in the group who WILL attempt some kind of attack on Americans? My answer is no. Go back to Syria and fight your war. No military aged men should be granted refugee status. They should be in Syria fighting for their country - whichever side they are on.


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## stonetag (Nov 14, 2015)

don draco said:


> Islam is a plague.  It's a political ideology whose aim is to destroy civilization as we know it.  You can argue as much as you'd like about how Islam is "the religion of peace," but it's all PC bullshit. Anybody who makes that argument is absolutely ignorant.  Their "religion" breeds hatred and evil. Take some time to read the Quran and you'll fully understand why over 150 people were killed in France today.  It's time for the world to finally wake up and put an end to the endless violence and destruction that Islam creates.   A devout muslim is more dangerous than any weapon.


Right on Don! I'm sick to fuking death of getting the "peaceful" religion shoved down my throat, and that all religions have experienced or participated in bloodshed through out history, uh a little different here folks. This is a good time for a lot of countries to put aside their issues with each other and systematically remove this shit stain from the planet.


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## Yaya (Nov 14, 2015)

I know some very nice practicing muslims and they are ashamed of this shit

But right now extreme Islam is a global issue.. it doesn't matter what the Christians did during the crusades and what the nazis did during WW2..Right now these cocksuckers need to be stopped and our president is a pussy


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## Milo (Nov 14, 2015)

Yaya said:


> I know some very nice practicing muslims and they are ashamed of this shit
> 
> But right now extreme Islam is a global issue.. it doesn't matter what the Christians did during the crusades and what the nazis did during WW2..Right now these cocksuckers need to be stopped and our president is a pussy



He ain't doing shit. He's Muslim too.


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## snake (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm really getting tired of the term "Radical Muslims"; it's a bit redundant to me. They don't all strap bombs to their chest and run into public places but seldom do you ever really hear the individual condone these actions. And I'm not sorry if I offend someone who is a member of a religious group bent on killing me and my beliefs. If they do not align themselves with these "Radicals", go clean house. Fix your problem before it spills out onto the streets or accept how we fix the problem.


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## don draco (Nov 14, 2015)

Yaya said:


> I know some very nice practicing muslims and they are ashamed of this shit
> 
> But right now extreme Islam is a global issue.. it doesn't matter what the Christians did during the crusades and what the nazis did during WW2..Right now these cocksuckers need to be stopped and our president is a pussy



I know a few self-proclaimed "muslims" as well.  They were born into the culture and follow the religious rituals, but don't live by the core message of Islam. Most of them know little to nothing about what their holy books contain.  These individuals aren't muslims at all. The Quran teaches global conquest, the establishment of jihad and the destruction of all non-believers. 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." 

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore *strike off their heads* and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while.  Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." 

And finally.. from the Hadith, in the words of Mohammad himself.. 

Tabari 9:69  "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us." 


This is just a fragment of the hatred and intolerance that is taught by their holy books.  Their religion actually endorses and promotes everything they're doing in the world today.  The people you see committing these crimes against humanity are not "extremists."  They are devout muslims. They are the embodiment of the core principles of Islam. 

And for those making the argument against the actions of Christians during the crusades, the bible did not justify the actions of the church. It couldn't have.  There are no verses present in the bible that support it.  Instead, "divine right" was the driving force behind the crusades.  The populace believed that the king was anointed by God, and had direct communication with him -- a concept that doesn't exist in the bible to begin with. Christianity never caused the crusades.  It was a war that was politically-driven, and the religion was *wrongly* used to manipulate and gather the support of the masses. This could have been accomplished largely due to the illiteracy of the general population and their belief that the king's commands were a reflection of God's will.  Again, Christianity was not responsible for the crusades -- their holy book in no way supports the atrocities that took place.  

But all that aside, bringing up the past wrongs of existing groups to justify the current atrocities of another is absolutely ridiculous.  It is simply a poor attempt at distracting from the current issue at hand. 

Islam has never been able to coexist peacefully with the rest of the world, and it never will.  As I said earlier, it's nothing more than a growing plague that is eating at the foundation of civilization as we know it.  The sooner we cure the world of this disease, the better.


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## {'Calcul08'} (Nov 15, 2015)

Luscious Lei said:


> As you can imagine I've been bombed with texts when the news broke up, it was around 7am here and it took me a while to understand why I was getting them since they were not very clear and I was still dozzing.
> From the French news website I'm checking we are talking about 7 attacks, 117 deaths, 120 wounded 60 of them being in critical state. More than half of the deaths (76) have taken place in the concert Hall shooting. Le Bataclan is a small concert hall and there were around 1500 people in there.



Glad you're safe and well. 

You and me both. i had family members blowing up my phone thinking I was for some odd reason in that area. Reminded me of '05 when I was on a student exchange in Donostia and the riots in Lyon broken out. :/

It's shit what's happening, but can't help to draw a correlation of this perhaps being pretty much payback for Sarkozy's involvement in helping take down Gadafi; amongst many other contributing factors.


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## Fruity (Nov 15, 2015)

Quotations are easily abused without context. 
_Islam is a peaceful religion its the radicals that are misinterpreting it to fulfill their own goals_, so my Muslim co-workers tell me.

If there were a proper article, from a reliable source, claiming to have read the entire Quran and *then *conclude that indeed this religion is the cause of Muslim terrorism, only *then *will I believe that Islam itself is a disease. Only then would I tell my co-workers straight to the face about this conclusion. But some random forum member quoting various lines from a 6000 page book isn't gonna cut it. 

Honestly I want don draco to be in the right, only because I'v been wanting to take the piss out of their religion for a while now. Why? Well they took the piss out of me when I said I don't have a religion.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 15, 2015)

Fruity said:


> Quotations are easily abused without context.
> _Islam is a peaceful religion its the radicals that are misinterpreting it to fulfill their own goals_, so my Muslim co-workers tell me.
> 
> If there were a proper article, from a reliable source, claiming to have read the entire Quran and *then *conclude that indeed this religion is the cause of Muslim terrorism, only *then *will I believe that Islam itself is a disease. Only then would I tell my co-workers straight to the face about this conclusion. But some random forum member quoting various lines from a 6000 page book isn't gonna cut it.
> ...



Unfortunately many ppl can take scriptures out of context and twist them to suit their obvious agendas.


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## MS1605 (Nov 15, 2015)

don draco said:


> I know a few self-proclaimed "muslims" as well.  They were born into the culture and follow the religious rituals, but don't live by the core message of Islam. Most of them know little to nothing about what their holy books contain.  These individuals aren't muslims at all. The Quran teaches global conquest, the establishment of jihad and the destruction of all non-believers.
> 
> Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
> 
> ...



I have had this debate hundreds of times. People just don't get it. If memory serves me correct, its something like 177 times in the Quran it mentions Muslims doing harm to Infidels. How ANYONE can make an argument that these people are peaceful is beyond me. You can not claim to be a Muslim and claim to be peaceful. If you ARE peaceful, then you are not doing your job as a Muslim in accordance to your holy book. If you are a Muslim and you are not waging war on Infidels then you are not really a Muslim. You are not living by your holy book. Period. 


You know what else Happened Friday? We let in 10k Syrian refugees in. Get ready folks, This is about to start happening on our home turf. 

Here is a map of where Obama is relocating the the refugees.
http://www.youngcons.com/map-shows-where-syrian-refugees-are-resettling-in-america/

This is the beginning of WWIII. Mark my words.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 15, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> I have had this debate hundreds of times. People just don't get it. If memory serves me correct, its something like 177 times in the Quran it mentions Muslims doing harm to Infidels. How ANYONE can make an argument that these people are peaceful is beyond me. You can not claim to be a Muslim and claim to be peaceful. If you ARE peaceful, then you are not doing your job as a Muslim in accordance to your holy book. If you are a Muslim and you are not waging war on Infidels then you are not really a Muslim. You are not living by your holy book. Period.
> 
> 
> You know what else Happened Friday? We let in 10k Syrian refugees in. Get ready folks, This is about to start happening on our home turf.
> ...



You have a lot to learn.

Want to take a guess as to where this quote comes from?

Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroya all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 15, 2015)

don draco said:


> I know a few self-proclaimed "muslims" as well.  They were born into the culture and follow the religious rituals, but don't live by the core message of Islam. Most of them know little to nothing about what their holy books contain.  These individuals aren't muslims at all. The Quran teaches global conquest, the establishment of jihad and the destruction of all non-believers.
> 
> Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
> 
> ...



There is some pretty awful shit in the bible too...

It's not about the books.  It's simply about their actions. I am not aboUT to give up bacon. Nor do I believe I will go to hell for eating it.  

This is about a growing trend.  It started small. Some sick individuals preaching this kind of hate to other Muslims and using the Koran to back it up.  That small group has grown exponentially.

So it actually is like the crusades. It is a political movement not a religious one. It is psychopaths under the guise of Islam attempting to install a global authoritarian dictatorship.


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## MS1605 (Nov 15, 2015)

And France has started bombing...


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## MS1605 (Nov 15, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/FoxBusiness/videos/10153246100445238/


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## NbleSavage (Nov 15, 2015)

Key Point: these were coalition targets, with a decision made to let France carry out the sorties. 

This wasn't just a knee-jerk reaction to the attacks, these targets were approved previously. The attacks may have accelerated the timetable.


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## StoliFTW (Nov 15, 2015)

Look, this sums it up for me.. You think what you want, your entitled to your opinion. I just want to see all these terrorists dead, whether muslims, jews or christians.

"These murderers aren't refugees. Nor are they real muslims. They're terrorists who hijacked a religion for nefarious gains."

So sick of people killing each other. This will never end. The more we bomb, the more we play into the those extremists playbook.   

I don't know the solution. Is it kill all Muslims? That won't happen..Is it kill only the extremists? Some will slip and build a new 'army'.  Is it nuke the middle east? What that will do is mass killings everywhere.   

I guess the only solution I see is to infiltrate and eradicate ALL cells. We spent trillions on defense, get inside these cells and kill them all. WTF is going on. Go delta force on these roaches.


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## RISE (Nov 16, 2015)

Agree with stoli 100%. 

 It isn't about Islam when it comes to ISIS. They call them selves Islamic, but they attack anyone who is against their own ideologies and agenda.  Which is why they are attacking and invading other Muslim countries.  As far as Islam being a violent religion, as Pillar mentioned the bible is exceptionally violent , especially I the Old Testament. Let's not forget that before Jesus "died for our sins" all sins were punishable by death.  Whether you murdered someone or worked on a Sunday, you were stoned to death.  God also murdered many for not believing in him (Sodom and Gomorrah, the great flood, etc).

I hope We can irradiate these pos's as fast as possible.


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## BigGameHunter (Nov 16, 2015)

I feel terrible for all the victims of these terrorists.  This topic has been debated at length here many times and usually goes toxic.  Im staying out of it this time Im too tired.  

I WILL relay a story about a woman in Paris I heard about on the local news.  She is a local here and is in Paris on a business trip and was a not far from the incident.  When she relayed her status to family she relayed a message from a conversation she had with an older local man there.  He said "thank God you live in a country where you can still own a gun and be able to defend yourself, these people had nothing but a chance to hide under an already dead body."  "Please do not give up your right to have a weapon the world is depending on you" ...meaning Americans holding out for the 2nd Amendment?  Thats how I interpreted it.

Not sure if its true or not but I doubt a somewhat reserved professional would fabricate such a story and have it on the news.  It is something to think about.


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## TheLupinator (Nov 16, 2015)

You can't eliminate a religion with over a billion followers.. and it has little to do with Islam. It's a demented message that uses Islam as a vehicle.


With that said we need to take the handcuffs off. Drop something serious. We've been friendly with Japan ever since little boy and fat man.


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## don draco (Nov 16, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> There is some pretty awful shit in the bible too...
> 
> It's not about the books.  It's simply about their actions. I am not aboUT to give up bacon. Nor do I believe I will go to hell for eating it.
> 
> ...




Of course there is -- that I won't argue. However, the old testament does not demand your death for eating bacon.  A muslim employee in a hotel in Egypt once threatened my life after requesting ham in my omelet. He wanted to give me a one-way ticket to hell for even thinking about it. Lol.  

The issue with Islam is that it preaches hatred and violence against those who are not followers of the religion.  It's stated bluntly in plain text. This isn't an issue of misinterpretation or another case of words being twisted to fit a political agenda. This is why it's been a global problem throughout history. Their religion teaches the destruction of all that is not Islam.  Islam has never been able to peacefully coexist with the rest of the world. 

It actually _is_ about the book.  That's the source of the issue. These individuals believe that the verses in the Quran are commandments given to them by God himself.  They are actually told that they will be rewarded by Allah for fighting and dying in his name.  Their actions are directly fueled by the teachings of their religion.  If you watch the videos that ISIS develops, they actually post the verses up on the screen to support the atrocities you see them committing.  The Quran teaches that the world must be conquered in the name of their God. They're simply carrying out Allah's will. 

Although it's natural for us to argue that this isn't the true face of Islam due to our own relationships and personal experiences with peaceful muslims, the sad reality is that it is.  Taking time to read the Quran and Hadith will tell you all you need to know about the core tenets of Islam.  It isn't the "religion of peace" that people speak about.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 16, 2015)

don draco said:


> Of course there is -- that I won't argue. However, the old testament does not demand your death for eating bacon.  A muslim employee in a hotel in Egypt once threatened my life after requesting ham in my omelet. He wanted to give me a one-way ticket to hell for even thinking about it. Lol.
> 
> The issue with Islam is that it preaches hatred and violence against those who are not followers of the religion.  It's stated bluntly in plain text. This isn't an issue of misinterpretation or another case of words being twisted to fit a political agenda. This is why it's been a global problem throughout history. Their religion teaches the destruction of all that is not Islam.  Islam has never been able to peacefully coexist with the rest of the world.
> 
> ...



I have to ask Don, have you even read the Quran? Bc you are talking about things you don't know and out of context. I mean the bible actually demands death for those who work on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:15), if a man has sex with a woman and her mother, the Bible demands the death of the woman and mother as well as the man (Levitocus 20:14), and in Joshua 7:1-26 God commands Joshua and Israel to kill  Achan for taking an accursed ring. So you only care if the Quran mentions death to bacon eaters but not about the bible killing people for working on a Sunday???? Wow, my own dad would have been put to death and the bible used as justification bc he worked two jobs and on Sundays to provide food on our table. Furthermore, the bible also mentions death to women that have laid with men outside of wedlock even if it wasn't by choice.....yes, let's kill rape victims also smh. 

Ooooo this one is good, are you ready? The bible says to kill homosexuals Leviticus 20:13 and bc of the bible 1 in 6 gay or bisexual men in the UK for example have been the subject of violence. Oh goody, let's go kill the homosexuals now and be staunch Christians *eyes rolling*

God tells Moses to kill and decapitate all non-believers and hang their heads in public to be seen by everyone (Numbers 25:3-4) but oh wait, I thought the Quran was the only violent book teach violence and  death? *eyes rolling*

You try to explain away the crusades as a political even rather than a religious one when THE POPE HIMSELF PUT HIS BLESSING ON KILLING, murdering, etc to the Muslim ppl. But in your eyes it's ok bc they're Christian.....for CHRIST'S sake (pun partially intended) the Vatican has a spokesperson in US politics or did you not know that? Do you not remember the church was the politicians back in the days of the crusades?

Let's not forget the concentration camps run by the Catholic Ustase in Croatia. 300,000-600,000 Jewish ppl and non-believers are though to have been killed at he hands of the Christians between 1942-1943. The killings that happened here were SO VICIOUS that the 
Sicherheitsdient de SS went back and complained to Hitler about the brutality. He did nothing. The Pope was aware of what was going on here in the name of the church. He too did NOTHING. 



You are twisting things to beyond the realm of fact and into fiction. So again, let me get this right, it's ok for the bible to actually encourage SLAVERY of men and woman and children of different skin colors and backgrounds? I mean Jefferson Davis decreed slavery was ok according to the bible and as a result, more Americans died in the Civil War than bc of all terrorist acts combined but hey let's blame the quaran *eyes roll*

You're worried about Islam not being able to coexist peacefully in the world is absolute propagandist bullshit. They coexist peacefully in Lebanon where the country is roughly 50/50 Christian and Muslim with even a small Jewish population to boot. But hey, as long the Catholic Church has hundreds millions of dollars to cover up, bribe, and shut up little boys from coming forward about being raped by priests it's all good bc the Quran is really violent....

Although it's natural for people to argue the Islam is a religion of war and violence issue when they're racist, stereotyped, or have had bad experiences with Muslims, but the sad reality is it is still no better than whites enslaving blacks, what Hitler did to the Newish ppl, the apartheids and genocides in Africa, the death of millions at the hands of Stalin, Mao, etc. In closing, neither is Islam the religion of violence that it's opponents try to paint it to be.


And for when you have time, can you please go incident by incident and explain why each act of murder as promoted by Catholicism is ok? Here's one list:


 Ancient Pagans

As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25]
 Mission

Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]
 Crusades (1095-1291)

First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]
Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]
Note: All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.

 Heretics

Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
The Albigensians...viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Bezirs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends) 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.
 Witches

from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged. [WV]
incomplete list of documented cases:
The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times
 Religious Wars

15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]
1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]
1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain. [DO31]
1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]
17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]
17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]
17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]
 Jews

Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians. Number of Jews slain unknown.
In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]
17. Council of Toledo 694: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]
The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]
First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]
Second Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]
Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40]
Fulda/Germany 1235: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]
1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]
1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]
1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]
1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]
1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]
1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]
1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.
1492: In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492. [MM470-476]
1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain. [DO43]
(I feel sick ...) this goes on and on, century after century, right into the kilns of Auschwitz.

 Native Peoples

Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.
Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion." [SH200]
While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it." [SH204-205]
On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:
I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]

Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: "justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ." [SH235]
In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." [SH109,238]
On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]
The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.
As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]
The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]
What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." [SH72]
Or, on another occasion:
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs." [SH83]
The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73] "In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated." [SH75]
"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitln [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]
Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).
"When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." [SH95]
Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of Amerikkka.

Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers: "Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared women and children. [SH111]
In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the (generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).
"Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed: 'Some he apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles, others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course these elegant measures were restricted for fellow englishmen: "This was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people of Virginia" methods were different: "when an Indian was accused by an Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire community" down. [SH105]
On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War". The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.
When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.
Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after, because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and burned their villages.
The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote: "And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the Place with dead Bodies": men, women, children. [SH113-114]
So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].
Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow:
"Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them..." (Deut 20)
Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents". [SH114]
Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own words: "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them." (This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)
In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]
The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]
Other tribes were to follow the same path.
Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"
"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!" [TA]
Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. "Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians 'grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]
In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]
In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some "600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a 'barbeque'." [SH115]
To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.
All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.
A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.
In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today.
More Glorious events in US history

Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do bears'." [SH241]
Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to be wading in gore") had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.
From an eye-witness account: "There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed ..." [SH131]
More gory details.
By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'." [SH244]


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## Yaya (Nov 16, 2015)

U guys are getting all crazy about this shit...

Debating written shit from hundreds Of years ago.. both books talk about killing.

The fact is now the issue is these evil brainwashed extremists using the Quran and a religion to justify these horrific cowardly acts against innocent people. For us, as Americans and now most people in the world...these radical muslims are a problem and need to be destroyed.


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## Poof (Nov 16, 2015)

Carry always even at home.


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## tunafisherman (Nov 16, 2015)

So, I haven't thoroughly read all of the responses, but here is my 2 cents:

1) If I give you a bowl of 100 M&Ms, but tell you only 10% are poison and will kill you, would you put the bowl in your house and eat them?
2) The responses will do nothing to really deter ISIS (I prefer to call them Daesh, as they find it extremely insulting).
3) If we really want to deter Daesh from conducting their attacks, we need to kill them.  Their culture responds to only one thing--power.
4) Although I feel badly for Paris, I also feel badly for the bombing in Baghdad, the killings in North Africa (which happened around the same day and were much larger in scale)-- yet we only care for Paris
5) Solving this problem isn't a hard thing to figure out.  It is a hard thing to come to grips with, at least for the vast majority of people who never have seen violence and don't wish to.
6) If we commit to another war, I will volunteer to go fight it if the chains are off.  We don't need to just kill the extremists.  We need to kill those that pass on their ideology.  We need to kill those that recruit.  We need to kill those that passively support (villagers knew where IEDs were but would say nothing... they deserve to die as well). And we need to do it in a brutal and unforgiving fashion.   The temporary bombings being carried out might kill a couple, but it does nothing to stop the spread of their message.  We need to show those that wish to kill us and our families that we will be willing to kill them as well.  Line them up, execute them.  Soak the bullets in pigs blood, bury them with the corpse of the pig.  Video it, post it, repeat it.  We need to accept civilian casualties and commit to a total war such as that of WWII.  Carpet bomb cities.  Cut off supplies, let them starve.  
7) Political leaders today will do none of this, because it is brutal and "unpopular."


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 16, 2015)

tunafisherman said:


> So, I haven't thoroughly read all of the responses, but here is my 2 cents:
> 
> 1) If I give you a bowl of 100 M&Ms, but tell you only 10% are poison and will kill you, would you put the bowl in your house and eat them?
> 2) The responses will do nothing to really deter ISIS (I prefer to call them Daesh, as they find it extremely insulting).
> ...



M&Ms are not human beings. They're a luxury not a life. 

Do ppl who refuse to cooperate in murder investigations bc of fear of street retaliation deserve to die also or is it just the Muslims?

If I told you your unborn son had a 10% chance of joining Isis after he grew up and matured would you abort your unborn son?

If I told you your daughter had a 10% chance of being raped and she refused to testify against her attacker would you sentence her to death? 

If I told you your son had a 10% chance to become a serial killer and/or rapist would you pull the switch to fry his ass in the electric chair?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 16, 2015)

Double post


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## Fruity (Nov 16, 2015)

Doc is the only one with a solid argument here. Can't wait for Draco's response.  


And shut up Yaya


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## MrRippedZilla (Nov 16, 2015)

don draco said:


> Islam has never been able to coexist peacefully with the rest of the world, and it never will.  As I said earlier, it's nothing more than a growing plague that is eating at the foundation of civilization as we know it.  The sooner we cure the world of this disease, the better.



Your going to have a hell of a time trying to justify this ^^^ position without looking like a complete asshat and, honestly, its worrying that so many seem to be in agreement with you.  

IMO there is no debate to be had here.
Having a few extremists does not, in any circumstance, justify killing off 20% of the world population in order to "cure the world of this disease" - end of discussion.


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## Yaya (Nov 16, 2015)

Everyone needs a little Jesus sprinkled into the heart... not the prophet "Isa" from the Quran, I mean Jesus Christ.. the Son of God


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## RISE (Nov 16, 2015)

There are 1.5 billion Islamic believers.  Are there 1.5 billion Isis members?  No.  End of debate.


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## Yaya (Nov 16, 2015)

I have stated my beliefs many times.  I'm a believing Christian, currently not the best example of a practicing christian but a faithful one.

Got a muslim that I'm very close with, we have had many countless drunk and sober debates for hours upon hours. 

Muslims don't consider ISIS true followers of the religion. I'm firm that these creatures need to be destroyed but I also hope that overwelming population of peaceful followers of the religion arent punished for the acts of these scumbags.


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## Yaya (Nov 16, 2015)

Fruity said:


> Quotations are easily abused without context.
> _Islam is a peaceful religion its the radicals that are misinterpreting it to fulfill their own goals_, so my Muslim co-workers tell me.
> 
> If there were a proper article, from a reliable source, claiming to have read the entire Quran and *then *conclude that indeed this religion is the cause of Muslim terrorism, only *then *will I believe that Islam itself is a disease. Only then would I tell my co-workers straight to the face about this conclusion. But some random forum member quoting various lines from a 6000 page book isn't gonna cut it.
> ...



Ur a fukking idiot


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## HollyWoodCole (Nov 16, 2015)

What a great thread, hate I'm getting in so late.  Kudos to everyone jumping in and stating their opinions.

I can definitely see Draco and Doc's points of view, however I am more in the Draco camp to be completely honest.  Maybe I'm biased from what I've had to personally do to protect my country from these guys already.  What I can say is that I'm not aware (maybe Doc can help here) of any Christians that are currently on the warpath and killing in the name of God or the writings of the Bible.

To sum it up, I respect both opinions and both have relevant points IMO however I am ready to put the training I have received to use when/if the shit hits the fan here.


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## DieYoungStrong (Nov 16, 2015)

My good friend of mine is a Muslim. He did 2 combat deployments to Iraq as a Marine Infantryman. I'm pretty sure he hates ISIS/ISIL and all the other extremist groups.

That said, these rodents need to be smoked out of their hideouts like the rats they are and exterminated. Unfortunately, this is impossible without there being some collateral damage. Unfortunately, the threat is too great to not accept this, and do what needs to be done while doing our best to minimize the collateral damage.

7% of Muslims are extremists....7% of Germans were Nazi's in 1941.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 16, 2015)

HollyWoodCole said:


> What a great thread, hate I'm getting in so late.  Kudos to everyone jumping in and stating their opinions.
> 
> I can definitely see Draco and Doc's points of view, however I am more in the Draco camp to be completely honest.  Maybe I'm biased from what I've had to personally do to protect my country from these guys already.  What I can say is that I'm not aware (maybe Doc can help here) of any Christians that are currently on the warpath and killing in the name of God or the writings of the Bible.
> 
> To sum it up, I respect both opinions and both have relevant points IMO however I am ready to put the training I have received to use when/if the shit hits the fan here.



The three most recent issues Im aware of are the pedophilia thing, the Bosnian Genocide in the early to mid 90s, and the genocide in Central Africa which is current as far as I know. 

The issue isn't about what the Christians are doing now, I'm a Christian btw, it's about their whole history as well since Don wants to go back to the beginning. From the beginning of time Christianity, as well as numerous other religions, was violent and preached death and violence to non-believers. Now all of a sudden it's a problem with the Muslims and we should eradicate them all according to some in this thread. Where were these same ppl when Christians were committing crimes against humanity? I don't hear anybody saying let's kill the Christians and who cares if some children and women die as a result. Millions have died in the Congo as well as other places In the name of religion and where are these ppl crying about eradicating them? It all seems to be centered on the Muslims which thanks to the propaganda which they all fall in line with, makes it the cause du jour so to speak. The so called news these ppl listen to has basically brainwashed them into toting the line. Stir in some nationalist speeches, show a couple videos of Muslim wrong doing, have the news report biasly and you're left with what we have today.... A group of ppl who are brainwashed and want to eradicate some 20% of the world's population bc of the doings of a select minority. Hitler held similar beliefs and look where that got us.


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## Yaya (Nov 17, 2015)

Doc loves Jesus, the God one


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## Bullseye Forever (Nov 17, 2015)

I say bomb the fusk out of Isis be done with it


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## TheLupinator (Nov 17, 2015)

DieYoungStrong said:


> My good friend of mine is a Muslim. He did 2 combat deployments to Iraq as a Marine Infantryman. I'm pretty sure he hates ISIS/ISIL and all the other extremist groups.
> 
> That said, these rodents need to be smoked out of their hideouts like the rats they are and exterminated. Unfortunately, this is impossible without there being some collateral damage. Unfortunately, the threat is too great to not accept this, and do what needs to be done while doing our best to minimize the collateral damage.
> 
> 7% of Muslims are extremists....7% of Germans were Nazi's in 1941.




Thank you. Minimizing collateral damage costs American lives. I honestly give zero shits about Islam. I care about my family.. and right about now I'm not feeling overly confident in the country my nieces and future sons will grow up in and that is dead serious.


I'd prefer to not have terrorists pumping bullets into families in the middle of the street. I don't even want that to be a possibility. Or even a thought in my head.


I'm know our servicemen are ready to kill right about now. I just hope our liberal government takes the handcuffs off this time.


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## BigGameHunter (Nov 17, 2015)

Did I misinterpret Dons post? I didn't read the part where he mentioned genicide.


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## TheLupinator (Nov 17, 2015)

Fighting solved everything...


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## AndroSport (Nov 17, 2015)

IDK… I've seen too many direct translations of the Quran 3:28 explanation of "al Taqiyya" from people who have escaped that world to really believe that only a small % of these guys are extremist. 

"Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world. The strategy mentioned through orders and solicitations in the Quran 3:28 and other Islamic writings and reference applies to all Western countries and against all infidels people (non-muslims) who is not Islamic and therefore seen as a constant threat to Islam."


...Anyone else see the below post on Facebook?

So let's put things in perspective: The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim 
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims 
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim 
The underwear Bomber was a Muslim 
The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims 
The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims 
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims 
The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims 
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims 
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims 
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims 
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims 
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims 
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Musiims 
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims 
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims 
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims 
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims 
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims 
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims 
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims 
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims 
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims 
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims'

Think of it: 

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem

Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM

**********SO THIS LEAD TO *****************
They’re not happy in Gaza 
They're not happy in Egypt
They're not happy in Libya
They're not happy in Morocco
They're not happy in Iran
They're not happy in Iraq
They're not happy in Yemen
They're not happy in Afghanistan
They're not happy in Pakistan
They're not happy in Syria
They're not happy in Lebanon
They're not happy in Nigeria
They're not happy in Kenya
They're not happy in Sudan

******** So, where are they happy? **********
They're happy in Australia
They're happy in England
They're happy in Belgium
They're happy in France
They're happy in Italy
They're happy in Germany
They're happy in Sweden
They're happy in the USA & Canada
They're happy in Norway & India
They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic! And who do they blame? Not Islam... Not their leadership... Not themselves... THEY BLAME

THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!! And they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy and finally they will be get hammered
!!!! 

Islamic Jihad: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
ISIS: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hamas: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Nusra: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Badr: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Muslim Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Jemaah Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abdullah Azzam Brigades: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
AND A LOT MORE!!!!!!!


----------



## Milo (Nov 17, 2015)

They lucky I'm not President because I would no shit nuke every square foot of that shit hole known as the middle east.


----------



## RISE (Nov 17, 2015)

HollyWoodCole said:


> What a great thread, hate I'm getting in so late.  Kudos to everyone jumping in and stating their opinions.
> 
> I can definitely see Draco and Doc's points of view, however I am more in the Draco camp to be completely honest.  Maybe I'm biased from what I've had to personally do to protect my country from these guys already.  What I can say is that I'm not aware (maybe Doc can help here) of any Christians that are currently on the warpath and killing in the name of God or the writings of the Bible.
> 
> To sum it up, I respect both opinions and both have relevant points IMO however I am ready to put the training I have received to use when/if the shit hits the fan here.



There are Christian countries in west Africa that are still burning people at the stake for being witches.  But no one gives a shit about Africa so it's never brought up.  Also, not Christians, but there are Monks the outskirts of Asia that are killing Muslims for absolutely no reason but their beliefs.  And of course there's Israel who is basically dictating Palestine and cutting them off from food and water and ransacking their homes and arresting people for trumped up charges.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

Milo said:


> They lucky I'm not President because I would no shit nuke every square foot of that shit hole known as the middle east.



Take a Guess as to which group of ppl have killed more innocent American lives than any other group and you may want to rethink about where you drop those nukes


----------



## Milo (Nov 17, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Take a Guess as to which group of ppl have killed more innocent American lives than any other group and you may want to rethink about where you drop those nukes



Continue......


----------



## HollyWoodCole (Nov 17, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Take a Guess as to which group of ppl have killed more innocent American lives than any other group and you may want to rethink about where you drop those nukes



Democrats?


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

Milo said:


> Continue......



Americans....


----------



## Milo (Nov 17, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Americans....



How have Americans killed more innocent Americans than anyone?


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

AndroSport said:


> IDK… I've seen too many direct translations of the Quran 3:28 explanation of "al Taqiyya" from people who have escaped that world to really believe that only a small % of these guys are extremist.
> 
> "Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world. The strategy mentioned through orders and solicitations in the Quran 3:28 and other Islamic writings and reference applies to all Western countries and against all infidels people (non-muslims) who is not Islamic and therefore seen as a constant threat to Islam."



So you're worried about someone lying? Are Muslims the only ones that lie? Im lied to by the president, congress, and politicians daily.....

The Quaran does use the word infidels. The word used is kafir which means someone who rejects. Ironically enough, infidel is a Christian term originating from a latin language. Funny, read conveniently, how that gets misused all the time 



> ...Anyone else see the below post on Facebook?
> 
> So let's put things in perspective: The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
> The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
> ...



Pope Urban II was the one who started the crusades. He was catholic. It is estimated that anywhere between 1-3 million ppl died in the crusades at the hands of a catholic pope. Let's add up your figures and mine and see which rigorous organization has more blood on it's hands . And some simple statistics for you: those 1-3million ppl who died in the crusades was during a period when the earth's population was about 300million ppl.  That's about 5% of the earths population at that time. For Muslims to cause the same percentage of death they'd need to kill 34miion ppl for today's population. Again I ask, which religious organization has more blood on it's hands? And let's not forget that's just the crusades.....

Let's not forget Sandy Hook, Columbine, VA Tech, Killeen, TX shootings, San Ysidro, Cali shooting, Austin, TX where a US marine shot and killed 16 and injured more, I could go on but my point is clear. 



> Think of it:
> 
> Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem



Wrong. Sinhalese Buddhists and Tamil Hindus killed each other. 



> Hindus living with Christians = No Problem



Wrong again. The Indian Human Rights Commission was asked to investigate the slaughter of Indian Christians at the hands of Indian Hindus in the Orissa state.



> Hindus living with Jews = No Problem



Pretty peaceful together since they both hate the Muslims. The enemy of my enemy is my friend....



> Christians living with Shintos = No Problem



Wrong again. Iemitsu, the 3rd shogun in the Tokugawa dynasty went on a Christian killing spree. Between 1614 and the 1640s at least tens of thousands of Christians were killed under the Shinto. 



> Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem



You've got to be kidding me? The confucious  Chinese and Shinto Japanese murdered each other for years. 



> Confusians living with Baha'is = No Problem



^^^ this one is truly fukking hilarious. You do realize the Baha'is religion started as a sexy of the Muslim Shi'a religion? Oh the irony. 



> Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem



A religion that started from the Shi'ah Muslim sect living with Jews with no problems? The irony from the last one is only topped by the irony in this one. 



> Jews living with Atheists = No Problem



Although there is much debate, there is a good amount of evidence that Hitler was aetheist. You mean to tell me that Hitler lived with the Jewish ppl with no problem???



> Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
> Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
> Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
> Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
> ...



In the interest of prioritizing my time I hope you're not going to make me to through the list one by one. I think the first few were enough to prove my point as to just how accurate this "Facebook" post is....



> **********SO THIS LEAD TO *****************
> They’re not happy in Gaza
> They're not happy in Egypt
> They're not happy in Libya
> ...



THeres too much bullshit in the rest of this to even go point by point. Suffice to say someone with very little knowledge and a lot of time on their hands wrote something on Facebook.....whoopy doo

The Animal Liberation Front is a terrorist organization made up of Christian Americans, the Army of God is a terrorist group, the Aryan Nation is a terrorist group, the Black Linerstion Army is a terrorist group, the  jewish  Defense league, the KKK, the Weathermen, the United Freedom Front, etc are all terrorist groups made up of Americans and in many cases Christian Americans specifically.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

Milo said:


> How have Americans killed more innocent Americans than anyone?



Do I really need to spell it out? Civil war and slavey, Oklahoma City bombing, Waco TX, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc etc. Look at the homocide statistics of the US.....


----------



## don draco (Nov 17, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I have to ask Don, have you even read the Quran? Bc you are talking about things you don't know and out of context. I mean the bible actually demands death for those who work on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:15), if a man has sex with a woman and her mother, the Bible demands the death of the woman and mother as well as the man (Levitocus 20:14), and in Joshua 7:1-26 God commands Joshua and Israel to kill  Achan for taking an accursed ring. So you only care if the Quran mentions death to bacon eaters but not about the bible killing people for working on a Sunday???? Wow, my own dad would have been put to death and the bible used as justification bc he worked two jobs and on Sundays to provide food on our table. Furthermore, the bible also mentions death to women that have laid with men outside of wedlock even if it wasn't by choice.....yes, let's kill rape victims also smh.
> 
> Ooooo this one is good, are you ready? The bible says to kill homosexuals Leviticus 20:13 and bc of the bible 1 in 6 gay or bisexual men in the UK for example have been the subject of violence. Oh goody, let's go kill the homosexuals now and be staunch Christians *eyes rolling*
> 
> ...




First off, the debate is not about Christianity. Not in any way, shape or form.  I was responding to POB's comment concerning the issues with Christianity. The point I was making is that the bible was misused to accomplish the political goals of the religious establishment.  The bible itself ( especially the new testament, the central focus of Catholicism ) does not contain any verses that condone the atrocities that took place during the Crusades.  

I will never understand why the focus is immediately shifted to past issues with other groups whenever a debate on Islam is started. Using the past wrongs of existing religious groups to justify the current wrongs of those who follow Islam does not equate to taking a stance on the issue. It's merely an attempt at distracting from it.  The issue is what's happening *now*, not the past.  

If you'd like to have a debate on the moral issues that exist in the Old Testament of the bible, we can start a different thread on that.  But you still haven't refuted any of the points I've made. You simply state that I'm "twisting" reality, with no evidence to support your claim.  Please pick out the parts I've twisted and get back to me.  And yes, I have read the Quran.  

As for the historical events you've listed, I'll take the time to look over them in a few hours when I get back from the gym.  If you could find the verses in the bible that support their actions -- and your argument (?) -- I'd appreciate it.  But please keep in mind that I never said that any acts of violence were "okay."  Violence committed by _any_ group against others simply because they do not share their beliefs is unacceptable. You're putting words into my mouth in an attempt to weaken my argument, Doc.   I'd appreciate it if we could stay on topic.  Please show me what I've taken out of context and display how I've twisted the words of the Quran and Hadith.


----------



## don draco (Nov 17, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Your going to have a hell of a time trying to justify this ^^^ position without looking like a complete asshat and, honestly, its worrying that so many seem to be in agreement with you.
> 
> IMO there is no debate to be had here.
> Having a few extremists does not, in any circumstance, justify killing off 20% of the world population in order to "cure the world of this disease" - end of discussion.



The "disease" is the ideology. Not the people.  Islam needs to be abolished or reformed.  Maybe my suggestion was a bit vague, but I never said anything about killing the muslim people for their beliefs.


----------



## Milo (Nov 17, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Do I really need to spell it out? Civil war and slavey, Oklahoma City bombing, Waco TX, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc etc. Look at the homocide statistics of the US.....



Civil War was WAR. Don't think too many Confederates packed their assholes with gunpowder to blow a theater to shit. I fail to see how "innocent" Americans were killed during the Civil War. It was American soldiers killing American soldiers.

As for slavery, slaves were considered property and were worth a lot of money. Killing them would mean they'd have to be replaced which was not cost effective. Slaves were slaves not innocent casualties. They lived and were even given medical attention because they were considered investments and the slave owners wanted to get the most work out of their dollars spent on slaves. Regardless, slavery is unacceptable. 

Not going to touch on the rest you listed. As per numbers, 9/11 alone has a higher innocent death count (not to take away from the other events even though I noticed you left out Ft Hood).

And we're just talking about Americans here. Islamic extremists kill everyone. Tally up the death count they've stacked up in their history, against all nations and religions, and get back to me.

I'm not for violence by anyone for any reason. And yes Christians have stacked up a huge death count as well. I don't associate myself with any religion because I think they're all ****ing crazy. But I live and let live as long as it doesn't affect me or anyone I care about. Islamic extremists will NOT live by the same philosophy.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

Milo said:


> Civil War was WAR. Don't think too many Confederates packed their assholes with gunpowder to blow a theater to shit. I fail to see how "innocent" Americans were killed during the Civil War. It was American soldiers killing American soldiers.



50,000 innocents aka non-combatants died In the civil war. I'm not simg talking about soldiers....

You didn't see Jefferson Davis packing his asshole with anything bc the technologically advanced countries and armies have all the bells and whistles. Why would you need to stuff gunpowder up your ass when you have atomic weapons?




> Not going to touch on the rest you listed. As per numbers, 9/11 alone has a higher innocent death count (not to take away from the other events even though I noticed you left out Ft Hood).



I left out a lot of incidents to save time. 9/11's death count is higher one an event per event basis. It's not even close when you add up all the events unlisted. 



> And we're just talking about Americans here. Islamic extremists kill everyone. Tally up the death count they've stacked up in their history, against all nations and religions, and get back to me.



I did. Christians killed off 5% of the worlds population during the crusades. Today that equivalent means Muslims would have to kill off 34,000,000 ppl. Mao and Stalin killed more in several years than the Muslims did throughout their history. 



> I'm not for violence by anyone for any reason. And yes Christians have stacked up a huge death count as well. I don't associate myself with any religion because I think they're all ****ing crazy. But I live and let live as long as it doesn't affect me or anyone I care about. Islamic extremists will NOT live by the same philosophy.



You're not for violence by anyone for any reason yet you just said earlier today you'd drop nukes on the entire Middle East. Do you ordinarily contradict yourself or is this just a one time thing? The funny part is you say Islamic extremists won't live y the same philosophy and you want to nuke an entire area of land that has non-extremist Muslims, Christians, Jewish, and some extremist Muslims.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

don draco said:


> First off, the debate is not about Christianity. Not in any way, shape or form.  I was responding to POB's comment concerning the issues with Christianity. The point I was making is that the bible was misused to accomplish the political goals of the religious establishment.  The bible itself ( especially the new testament, the central focus of Catholicism ) does not contain any verses that condone the atrocities that took place during the Crusades.
> 
> I will never understand why the focus is immediately shifted to past issues with other groups whenever a debate on Islam is started. Using the past wrongs of existing religious groups to justify the current wrongs of those who follow Islam does not equate to taking a stance on the issue. It's merely an attempt at distracting from it.  The issue is what's happening *now*, not the past.
> 
> ...



Do you blame video games for violent teenagers? Do you blame violent movies for violent crime? Do you blame obesity on pop tarts and ice cream? 

The point is both religions have verses that are violent and/or taken out of context and both religions have been used to kill indiscriminately. You're putting the blame on a book when the blame is on ppl who do these acts. I'm not out to justify the innocent being killed at the hands of the Muslims but neither am I naive enough to think they're alone in that guilt. I'm also not naive enough to fall for the propaganda put before me by lying politicians and a news media that's simply an extension of the politicians. I'm Not out to say Christianity is bad. What I am out to say though is that your idea, and that of many others, of killing off all the Muslims bc of what some crazy ones do is beyond crazy. 

I read a Bible that tells me to kill a rape victim, that tells me to kill anyone who doesn't believe in my God, that wiped out most life as we know it with a giant flood and guess what? I'm no murderer. Is that bc of the book/religion or me? Same goes for he Muslim, judge the man for his actions not for the book he reads. 

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - FDR

The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest fear is fear of the unknown - Unknown


----------



## TheLupinator (Nov 17, 2015)

We should interview the 250mm Middle Easterners and see if they are the good Muslims or the bad Muslims... I'm sure they'll tell the truth.


----------



## {'Calcul08'} (Nov 17, 2015)

Someone pointed out violent Muslims! ZOMG QUICK! BRING UP CHRISTIANS! THAT WILL SAVE THEM!

#EternalSIGH

If people only knew it was Muslim violence that forced the Europeans to sail around the world instead of going though their territory.. Then we wouldn't be so happy to embrace these extremist fellas. *looks down on Angela Merkel*

Anyone else noticed the pattern of wars being the greatest tool, commonly known as rushed diplomacy with a massive payout on a carefully made investment? It's easy, all the things you need for a multicultural brunch party are essentials like various politics mixed with different religions, add salt & pepper (plebs willing to die for a demented cause, but give them weapons - because you can only shout for so long), stir that pot until it's left on the stove for far too long until it blows the lid off the top, then have the rest of the global guest countries clean it up whilst sticking them with the bill for it.


----------



## RISE (Nov 17, 2015)

The reason Christianity is brought up is bc the violence in both religions are quite parallel to each other, yet most don't realize it.  Mainly bc in church you're only taught what the New Testament consists of, bc preaching the Old Testament would be pretty hard to sell.  But that's what people don't understand, in Islam, Jesus is not the son of God.  Therefor no one died for our sins and punishment is left up to god and to the people.  If Jesus never died for our sins, Christianity would look a lot like what we are seeing from these Islam extremists.  Aside from the suicide bombings.


----------



## tunafisherman (Nov 17, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> M&Ms are not human beings. They're a luxury not a life.
> 
> Do ppl who refuse to cooperate in murder investigations bc of fear of street retaliation deserve to die also or is it just the Muslims?
> 
> ...



Do people who refuse to comply in murder investigations get charged with accessory or obstruction?-- Yes

Would I abort--No, that's a different issue all together

Rape--Different issue all together as well

Son being a serial killer--If he actually was a serial killer or supported/assisted a serial killer I'd save the tax payers money and handle it myself.

I don't hate Muslims--I sponsored my interpreter (from afghan transition team) to come to the US under asylum and eventually get his visa.  I worked with some great afghan police and army members.  However, if I saw them actively or passively supporting the enemy this is how I handled it (generally, only happened twice):

I had the individual fired.  We escorted the individual to a village not too friendly to the US, and I made sure that the locals saw me shake his hand and give him a big ol hug.  Had a couple members on my team give him a High five.  The villagers took care of him from there.

I have no sympathy for those that wish to do us harm, and actively or passively support those that do.  That's why I said we need to kill those that support Daesh.  Collateral damage happens, and if it solves the problem I am fine with it.


----------



## {'Calcul08'} (Nov 17, 2015)

RISE said:


> The reason Christianity is brought up is bc the violence in both religions are quite parallel to each other, yet most don't realize it.  Mainly bc in church you're only taught what the New Testament consists of, bc preaching the Old Testament would be pretty hard to sell.  But that's what people don't understand, in Islam, Jesus is not the son of God.  Therefor no one died for our sins and punishment is left up to god and to the people.  If Jesus never died for our sins, Christianity would look a lot like what we are seeing from these Islam extremists.  Aside from the suicide bombings.



If we took all the violence and savagery out of all the religious literature, there wouldn't be enough paper left to make a pamphlet. A pamphlet.

Sheeple remain a staple even in modern society.


----------



## RISE (Nov 17, 2015)

{'Calcul08'} said:


> If we took all the violence and savagery out of all the religious literature, there wouldn't be enough paper left to make a pamphlet. A pamphlet.
> 
> Sheeple remain a staple even in modern society.



This is true, but pointing out things of that nature in religions most are not familiar with or practice is not the best way to show the hypocrisy.  Which is why I have used Christianity in this case.


----------



## {'Calcul08'} (Nov 17, 2015)

RISE said:


> This is true, but pointing out things of that nature in religions most are not familiar with or practice is not the best way to show the hypocrisy.  Which is why I have used Christianity in this case.



Of course, 100% agreed. 

Speaking of practices, the world as we know it reminds me of revisiting Civ4, where I try to take immediate control of the religions by founding them and having holy cities,just so that I'll have outstanding relations with my neighbours.


----------



## Shane1974 (Nov 17, 2015)

ISIS/ISIL, the war in Syria, Parisian attacks, 9/11, etc., etc., etc. has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. That's the media tricking you. It's all political.


----------



## Uncle manny (Nov 17, 2015)

What's Christianity? what's Islam what's Judaism etc? There's so many denominations of religions and so many different sociopathic cults within religions. These Isis ****ers are sick they kill any one and even other Muslims. It's different then just a black and white religious thing. Media does play a big role in what we think and why we think.


----------



## LeanHerm (Nov 17, 2015)

This arguing will never ever be solved, or agreed upon by the difference parties involved. Been going on for years and years.  My advice is stop arguing and do something that really matters like volunteer somewhere that your time is valued. Sheesh.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

Shane1974 said:


> ISIS/ISIL, the war in Syria, Parisian attacks, 9/11, etc., etc., etc. has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. That's the media tricking you. It's all political.



^^^winner

10char


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 17, 2015)

tunafisherman said:


> Do people who refuse to comply in murder investigations get charged with accessory or obstruction?-- Yes



Accessory and obstruction charges are not death. You said these ppl deserve to die. 



> Would I abort--No, that's a different issue all together



I'm not talking about abortion specifically just using it as an example to counter your 10% argument. Basically you're changing your tune when compared to what you said earlier. 



> Rape--Different issue all together as well



how so? The victim is fearful of retaliation from the attacker and keeps quiet. Innocent Muslims fear the dangerous ones and keep quiet..... Same principle



> Son being a serial killer--If he actually was a serial killer or supported/assisted a serial killer I'd save the tax payers money and handle it myself.



now you're against true to what you said earlier!



> I don't hate Muslims--I sponsored my interpreter (from afghan transition team) to come to the US under asylum and eventually get his visa.  I worked with some great afghan police and army members.  However, if I saw them actively or passively supporting the enemy this is how I handled it (generally, only happened twice):
> 
> I had the individual fired.  We escorted the individual to a village not too friendly to the US, and I made sure that the locals saw me shake his hand and give him a big ol hug.  Had a couple members on my team give him a High five.  The villagers took care of him from there.
> 
> I have no sympathy for those that wish to do us harm, and actively or passively support those that do.  That's why I said we need to kill those that support Daesh.  Collateral damage happens, and if it solves the problem I am fine with it.



The extremist Muslims use the same justification to suit their purpose. How are you any better than them?


----------



## Fruity (Nov 17, 2015)

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/3t5jqm/islam_forbids_killing_the_innocent/


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Nov 17, 2015)

don draco said:


> The "disease" is the ideology. Not the people.  Islam needs to be abolished or reformed.  Maybe my suggestion was a bit vague, but I never said anything about killing the muslim people for their beliefs.



In that case I misinterpreted your post - my apologies.

There have been many attempts by Islamic scholars to "modernize" the religion because, obviously, a book that's over a thousand years old simply isn't as relevant in today's world. As you can imagine, these attempts have not gone down well as illustrated by the fact that ISIS actively targets all Muslims that disagree with their strict, outdated interpretation of Islam.

I've always found the idea of basing your whole life around the words in an outdated book somewhat ludicrous but hey, that's just my opinion.


----------



## gymrat827 (Nov 17, 2015)

its just shitty.

all the shit in the last 10/12/15yrs.  

None of this shit happened 20yrs ago.  Even during the cold war, Iraq in 1990/92, etc.  


My Gen & younger (im 31) just has to deal with things, tragedies like this.


----------



## DieYoungStrong (Nov 17, 2015)

gymrat827 said:


> its just shitty.
> 
> all the shit in the last 10/12/15yrs.
> 
> ...





You forget the Olympics in the 70s? The Pan-Am bombing?

This shit has been going for a long time.

As the great General James Mattis said "...there are some assholes in the world that just need to be shot."


----------



## DarksideSix (Nov 17, 2015)

Islam is a cancer, I hate to call out one religion like that but it is.  I've read the Quran and it is definitely NOT a religion of piece.   I wouldn't care so much if they all stayed in their own part of the world and practiced their views however the fuk they wanted but when you start committing mass murder against people who are against your own point of views then it is time for you to go.  ISIS is no different than the Nazi's were and history has shown us that, at some point, evil and aggression have to be addressed. 

I'm sure not all of the refuges are bad, but if I gave you 10 grapes and told you 2 of them were poisoned would you want to take any of them?  Look what happened in Germany.  around 20 of these fukers just up and disappeared out of one of these refugee camps.  Germany has no idea who they are or where they went.  Now, in New Orleans they already have one that just walked off and they can't find him.  

Our president and his administration are doing absolutely nothing to combat this.  It's time to drop bombs.  We either need to put troops 500,000 strong on constant rotation in Irag and Syria to fight this or we need to just hit the reset button and turn Raqqa into a fuking parking lot.


----------



## tunafisherman (Nov 17, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Accessory and obstruction charges are not death. You said these ppl deserve to die.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I find some issues with your hypotheticals--mainly the logic/straw man/ad hominem errors, but I'll just leave it at that.... but, as for the rest of your point:

Never said I was better than them, nor did I say I'm against Muslims.  I, however, am willing to kill them for my way of life, rather than accept them for theirs (and when I use them/their I am talking about Daesh).  And to think, I have put my money where my mouth is more than once.  I have met good Muslims, and I have met those that need to die.  The difference, as stated earlier, is the political ideology that I don't have any problem snuffing out.

As for those scared more of turning in the aggressors, collateral damage, and yes, I am fine with that.  Perhaps if they feared us more than our enemies we'd have an easier time.  Fighting a war with your hands tied to have it be more "gentlemanly" is a sure way to lose.  Didn't work for the Red Coats, didn't work for us in Nam, didn't work for us in Korea, didn't work for us in OIF or OEF.  Not being afraid to unleash extreme violence at any cost seemed to have worked before--Revolutionary war, Civil War, WWI, WWII, etc.


----------



## gymrat827 (Nov 17, 2015)

DieYoungStrong said:


> You forget the Olympics in the 70s? The Pan-Am bombing?
> 
> This shit has been going for a long time.
> 
> As the great General James Mattis said "...there are some assholes in the world that just need to be shot."



tell me 1 school shooting before yr 2000.  

Yes, there were a few incidents over 35/40yrs, but not like since 2000-2015.  

The last 15yrs have been much different.  Enough to set precedent.


----------



## DieYoungStrong (Nov 17, 2015)

gymrat827 said:


> tell me 1 school shooting before yr 2000.
> 
> Yes, there were a few incidents over 35/40yrs, but not like since 2000-2015.
> 
> The last 15yrs have been much different.  Enough to set precedent.



Columbine, Texas University.

There were embassy bombings in the '80s and '90s.

I don't disagree that it's been more prevalent in the past 15-20 years, and the islamists have upped the anti with their targets.. I'm just saying that the shit has been going on forever, and the info is much more in your face now then in the past with the internet and 24/7 news cycle.


----------



## gymrat827 (Nov 17, 2015)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Columbine, Texas University.
> 
> There were embassy bombings in the '80s and '90s.
> 
> I don't disagree that it's been more prevalent in the past 15-20 years, and the islamists have upped the anti with their targets.. I'm just saying that the shit has been going on forever, and *the info is much more in your face now then in the past with the internet and 24/7 news cycle*.



ill give you that all day long.

the net, the better the news is and the fact we dont really escape it because we get home from work, workout or fumble around for 1-3hrs.  

Cook dinner n watch tv (with the BS on, whatever just happened recently)......then if your not single your prolly going to discuss the diaster with your mate.  

right when you get into work the next morning, you turn on your computer.....IDK about all you, but i checkout yahoo news for 7 min while i start to sip my coffee.  Then go about my day.  During lunch too, ill poke around on the net.

Right back to getting home from work, cooking dinner, watching tv and so forth.  Shit, i see some of this on a treadmill with a tv while at the gym.  

So X2X, yes, its in your face all day, everyday.  

15 yrs back, the amounts of the incidents that would happen would be so seldom we would get over talking about it before the next happened.

Now its just one after the next.


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## NbleSavage (Nov 18, 2015)

Raid on an apartment in St. Denis last night / this morning may have netted the alleged mastermind behind the attacks.


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## {'Calcul08'} (Nov 18, 2015)

DarksideSix said:


> Islam is a cancer, I hate to call out one religion like that but it is.  I've read the Quran and it is definitely NOT a religion of piece.   I wouldn't care so much if they all stayed in their own part of the world and practiced their views however the fuk they wanted but when you start committing mass murder against people who are against your own point of views then it is time for you to go.  ISIS is no different than the Nazi's were and history has shown us that, at some point, evil and aggression have to be addressed.
> 
> I'm sure not all of the refuges are bad, but if I gave you 10 grapes and told you 2 of them were poisoned would you want to take any of them?  Look what happened in Germany.  around 20 of these fukers just up and disappeared out of one of these refugee camps.  Germany has no idea who they are or where they went.  Now, in New Orleans they already have one that just walked off and they can't find him.
> 
> Our president and his administration are doing absolutely nothing to combat this.  It's time to drop bombs.  We either need to put troops 500,000 strong on constant rotation in Irag and Syria to fight this or we need to just hit the reset button and turn Raqqa into a fuking parking lot.



Syria means nothing to the US because there's nothing to monetize off of. 

Bullets, guns, rations, tanks, fuel, planes, angry planes, angrier drones, boats, angry boats, angrier boats, submarines, electronics, satellites, training, marketing, building materials, and the many many many tools of war are VERY EXPENSIVE.

You would not commit the massive amount of money to any war campaign, if you DID NOT SEEK TO PROVIDE A RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

This is the entire POINT of war. Someone gets a fancy notion in their head, that they want to go after someone for reason X (ethnic, culture, material, political, etc.), so they go talk to some financiers, bankers, government funds, investors, and proceed to secure funding for an army. This army moves in, controls the land, and then reallocates the assets this land bears towards paying off the loan. Then, once the loan is paid off, the conqueror achieves profit.

THIS IS THE ROOT MECHANICS OF ALL WARFARE.

Failure to even acknowledge this means most people cannot begin to participate in the reasoning for war.

Those people should leave their morality and propaganda at the door and please PLEASE learn to acknowledge this simple fact: War is ALWAYS an investment.

Once people understand this, they can understand even more complex investment strategies that involve war.


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## Dex (Nov 18, 2015)

I haven't read all of these posts since it went into religion and beliefs. It is sad what happened over in Paris. France should change their laws and allow firearms for civilians. Guns don't kill people...religions kill people.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 18, 2015)

{'Calcul08'} said:


> Syria means nothing to the US because there's nothing to monetize off of.
> 
> Bullets, guns, rations, tanks, fuel, planes, angry planes, angrier drones, boats, angry boats, angrier boats, submarines, electronics, satellites, training, marketing, building materials, and the many many many tools of war are VERY EXPENSIVE.
> 
> ...



You ma'am have made the post of the month! Salut.


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## Iron1 (Nov 18, 2015)

Dex said:


> Guns don't kill people...religions kill people.



Our prehistoric ancestors were swinging rocks into each others skulls long before written language or the concept of deities even existed. 

People kill people.
Always have, always will. The only thing that changes is their motivation and available tools.


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## Iron1 (Nov 18, 2015)

Oh, and while I'm in this thread I want to point out that hating their religion is actually helping the DAESH cause.
Hear me out.

There are a LOT of Islam followers not involved with the DAESH who are every day people trying to live their lives like any of us.

DAESH despicable activities ruin the perception of middle easterners whether they're involved or not. Many of the people catching hate these days aren't even believers but because they LOOK the part, they catch the same hell as if they were an extremist all the same. 

Think about it, if the world communities drive people  out simply because of how they look or the religion they practice, where are they going to go? They're going to seek asylum and acceptance. The DAESH are more than happy to bring in these fellow Islamists. The asylum seekers will bring with them hatred and animosity from being driven from their homes by the western world.

Don't hate the religion, it's EXACTLY what the DAESH want.


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## MS1605 (Nov 29, 2015)

If you have 30 minutes, its worth a watch. I teared up...


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