# Strength Program Smart While Cutting? To maintain as much muscle as possible?



## Haggle1 (Jun 8, 2018)

Just looking to see what programs y'all run while cutting? I was always told that to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting.. You have to maintain as much strength as possible and dont loose weight too fast and get adequate protein. So I was thinking of running a good strength training program. 

Im Currently 5,8 Feet Tall. 25 Years old and around 36% Body-fat and 270 pounds (Natural). Long story short.. Ive been in the gym since the 9th grade So around 10-11 years of dirty bulking (SRS) always fluctuated around 220-245 pounds. And Always had a training balance between Hypertrophy and strength training. This past year I went on medication and gained 50 pounds and got super fat.. I want to reach 10-12% body fat for the first time in years to see what mass I put on over the years and get healthier at the same time. But I want to do it right, Ive seen so many people with lots of muscle just use poor diet and poor training and loose a significant amount of muscle.. It happens way to often and I wont lie I have a bad paranoia about it. Loosing years worth of hard progress. 

I mainly just need help with Training, Ive heard rapid Strength loss is a indication of muscle loss while cutting so I want to try a good Strength training program since that would probably be optimal for maintaining as much muscle as possible while I loose near 80-100 pounds. If not .. What would be a good weight training program to follow while cutting for experienced to advanced lifters? 

Diet and cardio wise I'm going to keep it simple. Im going to just follow 10 Calories X Bodyweight for now (So 2700 calories to start) and use a simple macro split. I was hoping to loose 2.5-3 pounds a week and then slow it down around 220 pounds.
Cardio wise Ill just stick to walking and running intervals 3-4 times a week 20-30 minutes for now.
I believe I will be around 10-12% Bodyfat at near 165-180 pounds. So 180 lbs will be my goal for now.

Would appreciate any feedback/advice from y'all. Thanks!


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## Viduus (Jun 8, 2018)

You’re going to lose a ton of strength. Lift heavy and try to hold on but expect it to drop. 

My only suggestion would be to pause every three months and spend a few weeks leveling off or regaining a small percentage of strength before cutting again.


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## Haggle1 (Jun 8, 2018)

Viduus said:


> You’re going to lose a ton of strength
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Viduus I will do that. Whats a good strength training or weightlifting program to follow while cutting? Or if their has been any particular ones you've done before that you've enjoyed or worked well for you.


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## Viduus (Jun 8, 2018)

Haggle1 said:


> Thanks Viduus I will do that. Whats a good strength training or weightlifting program to follow while cutting? Or if their has been any particular ones you've done before that you've enjoyed or worked well for you.



I’m completely ADHD with my routines. I work with a trainer twice a week that does full body workouts using lots of giant sets (or tri-sets to make seeker happy). Then I’ll do PPL with a strong emphasis on compound movements.

Since your focused on weight loss make sure you minimize rest and keep your heart rate up. Large movements will get things going the hardest. Any compound movement involving legs is pure gold.

its just my opinion but I wouldn’t waste time on calves or lots of isolation work. Use isolation work to make sure you’re hitting everything with maintenance in mind but the majority should be large compound stuff. Though I’ll do an isolation movement as a “rest” period between larger compound movements.

I’d defer to guys like Snake, Seeker, Jin and Gibs though. They all have different ways of doing things. Snake even does cardio


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## Jin (Jun 8, 2018)

Are you off the medication that led to the weight gain?


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## Haggle1 (Jun 8, 2018)

Jin said:


> Are you off the medication that led to the weight gain?


Thanks vid

And yes I am Jin.


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## Metalhead1 (Jun 8, 2018)

Agree with vid. 

If strength is your main focus, and on a deficit, i would look into a full body split 3x a week, or even something like 531. Allow your body plenty of rest days, while you hit it hard 3 days a week to retain and/or gain strength

Be sure to stick with compound movements more than iso movements, if you decde to add iso movements


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## snake (Jun 8, 2018)

I have no idea how anyone could answer your question without first quantifying your strength and muscle mass that you have now. But let me make some general assumptions with what you have provided us with. 

You're carrying around a lot of fat but to lose that for the average person does not mean you need to lose muscle and or any strength. I have said this many times here; Fat does not move weight, muscle moves weight. The rules change when you're at the top end of your game and dipping down to 8% BF but for now, there's no reason to expect any loss of muscle or strength. You should actually improve both with a reasonable diet that is focused on an adequate protein intake, solid resistance training and cardio.


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## jennerrator (Jun 8, 2018)

It depends on a lot....are you ok with training fuuuucking hard and as heavy as you can all the time? If so, no major worries :32 (17):


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## Uncle manny (Jun 8, 2018)

Your body needs a stimulus to keep your muscle and strength up while on a calorie deficit. No matter what program you use, keep the compound lifts Heavy!


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## Elivo (Jun 8, 2018)

snake said:


> I have no idea how anyone could answer your question without first quantifying your strength and muscle mass that you have now. But let me make some general assumptions with what you have provided us with.
> 
> You're carrying around a lot of fat but to lose that for the average person does not mean you need to lose muscle and or any strength. I have said this many times here; Fat does not move weight, muscle moves weight. The rules change when you're at the top end of your game and dipping down to 8% BF but for now, there's no reason to expect any loss of muscle or strength. You should actually improve both with a reasonable diet that is focused on an adequate protein intake, solid resistance training and cardio.




^^ Hes kind of smart  :32 (17):

Oh, ive tried 531, its a good program, its super easy, it is very slow as far as progression.  I actually stopped doing it cause i wanted to go heavier quicker than the program calls for and do more reps with the heavier weight as well.


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## Viduus (Jun 8, 2018)

Elivo said:


> ^^ Hes kind of smart  :32 (17):
> 
> Oh, ive tried 531, its a good program, its super easy, it is very slow as far as progression.  I actually stopped doing it cause i wanted to go heavier quicker than the program calls for and do more reps with the heavier weight as well.



Yup, lol.

10 char


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## MrRippedZilla (Jun 8, 2018)

Strength & muscle loss are not the same thing. Common mistake a lot of folks make. 

A smart program to run while cutting is one that is designed to maintain muscle mass as the primary goal, not strength. That means any non-retarded bodybuilding routine designed to suite your experience level. A basic Upper/Lower split with a median level of volume will do just fine. You can adjust from there depending on a bunch of stuff that I can't be bothered to go into unless you specifically want to know the details (volume correlates with deficit size, bigger the deficit - in daily & total - the lower the volume needs to be, etc).

I've never lost strength when cutting. Neither have 99% of my clients. Yes, you get weird lifts where you think you're losing strength (bench for example) but it has more to do with loss of leverage rather than anything else. It's a non-issue for most folks who aren't actual strength competitors.  

FWIW, I don't recommend 5/3/1 or any other program with strength, not muscle growth, as the primary goal. It isn't optimal.


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## Elivo (Jun 8, 2018)

Yeah the 5/3/1 is all about strength, hes added some variations to size to go along with it, but its adding volume to your main lift pretty much. 

But im fairly sure im not saying anything you dont already know lol


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## Haggle1 (Jun 8, 2018)

Metalhead1 said:


> Agree with vid.
> 
> If strength is your main focus, and on a deficit, i would look into a full body split 3x a week, or even something like 531. Allow your body plenty of rest days, while you hit it hard 3 days a week to retain and/or gain strength
> 
> Be sure to stick with compound movements more than iso movements, if you decde to add iso movements



I just want to do whatevers best to maintain as much muscle as possible while loosing 80-100 pounds. Im just alittle confused, I was always told if you want to maintain as much muscle as possible while loosing weight, you have to try to maintain as much strength as possible. So therefore I thought it was smart to try a strength training program? Correct me if im wrong.


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## Haggle1 (Jun 8, 2018)

snake said:


> I have no idea how anyone could answer your question without first quantifying your strength and muscle mass that you have now. But let me make some general assumptions with what you have provided us with.
> 
> You're carrying around a lot of fat but to lose that for the average person does not mean you need to lose muscle and or any strength. I have said this many times here; Fat does not move weight, muscle moves weight. The rules change when you're at the top end of your game and dipping down to 8% BF but for now, there's no reason to expect any loss of muscle or strength. You should actually improve both with a reasonable diet that is focused on an adequate protein intake, solid resistance training and cardio.



I can provide pictures I guess when I get home. All I can say is I've been in the gym for around 10-11 years consistently having a good balance of Hypertrophy,Strength training ( Ran a bro split for 2-3 years initially Ive done 5/3/1 for about 3-4 years on and off, Stronglifts 5x5 for about  2 years and some other strength programs , Arnolds Blueprint for 16 months and blew up on that, Did some custom Hypertrophy training with a army guy for 3 years I believe. Currently running a bro split for recovery reasons but I want to try something better structured instead of doing my own thing.

Current stats
5,8 ft , 270 pounds , 36% Bodyfat 
3/5 mile run atm
67 push ups , 12 pull ups , 16 chin ups straight atm
Military Press 205x6
Row 245x12
Bench 335x6
Working on squat/DL form, always had injuries doing them so I stayed away from them. Thats all I can really say untill I get pics up.


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## Viduus (Jun 8, 2018)

Trust Snake and zilla over the rest of us. Just lose the weight and lift heavy. Your attention to it will likely mean you’ll be just fine.


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## Elivo (Jun 9, 2018)

Viduus said:


> Trust Snake and zilla over the rest of us. Just lose the weight and lift heavy. Your attention to it will likely mean you’ll be just fine.



Thats probably the best advice in this thread lol


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## jennerrator (Jun 9, 2018)

Elivo said:


> Thats probably the best advice in this thread lol



well ...the for non knowing...yes lol

but trust me, just because some are different doesn’t mean they don’t know their shit:32 (17):

As it can be done :32 (20):


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## Elivo (Jun 9, 2018)

Eh i was thinking more along the lines of listen to them over myself, lol. Worded poorly


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## Haggle1 (Jun 9, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Strength & muscle loss are not the same thing. Common mistake a lot of folks make.
> 
> A smart program to run while cutting is one that is designed to maintain muscle mass as the primary goal, not strength. That means any non-retarded bodybuilding routine designed to suite your experience level. A basic Upper/Lower split with a median level of volume will do just fine. You can adjust from there depending on a bunch of stuff that I can't be bothered to go into unless you specifically want to know the details (volume correlates with deficit size, bigger the deficit - in daily & total - the lower the volume needs to be, etc).
> 
> ...



Thanks for your advice I really do appreciate it!

You said just sticking to a upper / lower program would be best for me while cutting down on fat and to maintain muscle.
Last question.. For advanced/experienced lifters Do you know any upper/lower programs on the top of your head that I should check out so I can study in depth what to actually do in the gym, reps and sets ECT. Ive seen some random no name people on youtube make Upper/lower programs and it didn't look too good lol.


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## Jin (Jun 9, 2018)

Haggle1 said:


> Thanks for your advice I really do appreciate it!
> 
> You said just sticking to a upper / lower program would be best for me while cutting down on fat and to maintain muscle.
> Last question.. For advanced/experienced lifters Do you know any upper/lower programs on the top of your head that I should check out so I can study in depth what to actually do in the gym, reps and sets ECT. Ive seen some random no name people on youtube make Upper/lower programs and it didn't look too good lol.




Not to be a jerk BUT: if you are an advanced/experienced lifter you would not be asking these sorts of questions about programming. 

Compound movements. 
Keep the rep range 8-15

other than that there is a ton of flexibility and less right/wrong answers.


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## Metalhead1 (Jun 9, 2018)

Haggle1 said:


> I just want to do whatevers best to maintain as much muscle as possible while loosing 80-100 pounds. Im just alittle confused, I was always told if you want to maintain as much muscle as possible while loosing weight, you have to try to maintain as much strength as possible. So therefore I thought it was smart to try a strength training program? Correct me if im wrong.



Maybe i misunderstood what you're shooting for. For that my apologies. I confused myself by thinking a strength training program would be good for maintaining muscle. 

Plenty of expertise in this thread.. Best of luck


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## Haggle1 (Jun 9, 2018)

Jin said:


> Not to be a jerk BUT: if you are an advanced/experienced lifter you would not be asking these sorts of questions about programming.
> 
> Compound movements.
> Keep the rep range 8-15
> ...


Your good, Tbh I only know how to lift when bulking, not cutting, that’s the part I’m confused hence the thread(I’ve failed miserably in the past with cutting) , and I said advanced so I could find something best for me, I would think I should try a program for people that have been in the gym for awhile instead of a beginner programz I was looking for more of a detailed program on top of compound movements&accessories but thanks everyone.


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 10, 2018)

Jin said:


> Not to be a jerk BUT: if you are an advanced/experienced lifter you would not be asking these sorts of questions about programming.
> 
> Compound movements.
> Keep the rep range 8-15
> ...



There is an old pervasive line of thought that when you cut it's better to use lighter weight and higher reps. I don't blame him for asking. All of my most successful cuts were done while prepping for a PL meet.

Edit: to clarify and respond somewhat to zilla's comment about not using strength programs rather than muscle building programs - the methods I used for PL involved ridiculous volumes that did induce muscle growth. So I do agree with him.  In fact with clients I would help cut down I always kept their focus on building muscle not losing fat. That especially helps your more... um... neurotic clients.


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