# Old Z.



## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

Whats up UGB?

Had a quick question for you guys. I know there is know way to find for sure without lab testing but I figured I would get your guys advice. about 8 Years ago I bought some raw Test e from Uncle Z. That was my one and only purchase from him. At the time, there was like 99% positive reviews on the web about him. Well in 8 years it has done a complete 180. Now everything seems to be negative. I have still yet to do a cycle. Im 27 and just now feel like I have completly stopped growing natty. Everything I brewed 8 years ago still looks the exact same way it did when it was first done. Nothing has crashed or changed color. 

This all being said, What are the odds its real stuff? From what I have read about Z, there was never a problem getting decent stuff. The problem came in with people not getting anything at all. It seems that all the people that actually got the packages said the gear was good. 

Any thoughts from the older guys on here? Considering I never ran a cycle, I never stuck around too much on boards. Spent most of the past 8 years working, lifting and eating. Any thoughts would be much appreciate.

As a side note, it was my first and only brew and I did not do any melting tests (like an idiot). I was 21 yo at the time. not the brightest. 

Thanks for your thoughts guys.


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## Yaya (Apr 14, 2014)

Well...I am honest and don't care if people flame me..so if they do ..here is my dick and do what u please


Years ago uncle z had "zline" and "zlabs"..One was domestic and one international. . And to be honest it wasn't bad at all.. 

I used a few products and he always gave extras to customers.. 
He also had good omnadrens

He then got in over his head and had a bunch of dick riding faggots on steroidology, outlaw,and ironmagazine. . (Amongst more)...These guys would edit  his section if anything negative was said and they would put out false claims..his quality fell but these fukkers kept feeding the community bullshit.

His operation was claimed to have been busted and he was MIA for a while but came back about a year ago and must of took a english class while on the run..he also threatened the life of a true vet.

Bottom line, uncle z isn't the same and I would stay away for many reasons.


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks for your input Yaya. I actually read the thread from Ben. 

You said that you would stay away now and I obviously am seeing all the negative stuff that is out there now but what about the subject at hand? The raws I got from him 8+ years ago. Going off of what you said about it being good back in the day, theres a decent chance its legit?


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## Yaya (Apr 14, 2014)

Take it...8 years ago his gear got a thumbs up from me

I used to be strictly hg and Mexican ugl..

After that I was bd..syntrop..unclez and was always happy


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

Good deal. That makes me feel good. Being that its going to be my first cycle I just wanted some sort of peace of mind that it was decent. 

Thanks for the little bit of reassurance brother.


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## Yaya (Apr 14, 2014)

I can't guarantee anything but..why not try it?


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

Oh, I'm defiantly trying it. Waited 8 long years to be ready. Like I said, Just wanted a little bit of reassurance that Im G2G.


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## JAXNY (Apr 14, 2014)

I'm no chemist. But you say you brewed this 8 year's ago. The question should be is it still good if it was good after 8 years. I don't recall ever seeing any expiration dates on anything 8 years out.


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## coltmc4545 (Apr 14, 2014)

Throw a vial in the freezer and if it crashes then you probably got some legit raws. If it doesn't then trash it cuz it's garbaj


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> I'm no chemist. But you say you brewed this 8 year's ago. The question should be is it still good if it was good after 8 years. I don't recall ever seeing any expiration dates on anything 8 years out.



From what I understand, if kept away from light and kept at room temp, Test will last damn near forever, No?




coltmc4545 said:


> Throw a vial in the freezer and if it crashes then you probably got some legit raws. If it doesn't then trash it cuz it's garbaj



If I do this and it does crash, I believe I can just swirl the vial under warm water and it should come back, right? 


Thanks guys.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 14, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> I'm no chemist. But you say you brewed this 8 year's ago. The question should be is it still good if it was good after 8 years. I don't recall ever seeing any expiration dates on anything 8 years out.



If it was made properly, enough BA added, sterilized properly at time of brewing, and stored correctly it will be ok to use.


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## JAXNY (Apr 14, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> If it was made properly, enough BA added, sterilized properly at time of brewing, and stored correctly it will be ok to use.



So out of curiosity DOC let's say all that is in check ie the way you just mentioned on how it was made. Then he would be safe trying it out and worse case is that it's bunk. But what if he didn't brew this correctly and since it sounds like it was his first brew so could be a possibility. What would be the worst that would happen to him if he injected this into his body if it were brewed incorrectly being 8 years old?


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

If its bad...


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## JAXNY (Apr 14, 2014)

MS1605 said:


> If its bad...



That's what I was thinking LOL.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 14, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> So out of curiosity DOC let's say all that is in check ie the way you just mentioned on how it was made. Then he would be safe trying it out and worse case is that it's bunk. But what if he didn't brew this correctly and since it sounds like it was his first brew so could be a possibility. What would be the worst that would happen to him if he injected this into his body if it were brewed incorrectly being 8 years old?



You could refilter it before injecting.


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## transcend2007 (Apr 14, 2014)

I am no chemist and there are far more experience guys who have been doing gear much longer than me.

With that said, IMO why risk it.  8 years is long flipping time.  I would toss it.

You found Z before so you no doubt could make a connection today.

This is not about money...it's just common sense....this is your health your talking about.  Toss that shlt.


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

From everything I have read, my common sense tells me there is absolutely nothing wrong with how old the gear is as long as the powder was good in the first place. When I did brew it, I double filtered it with a whatman filter. 

I have read from many supposed chemists that gear will last forever when kept in the right conditions which mine were. I have also read many times about older guys finding vials from the 70s and 80s and still pinning them. 

Going to throw one in the freezer today and see what happens.


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## coltmc4545 (Apr 14, 2014)

Yeah if it crashed heat up some water in a pot on the stove. Put your vial in it for a few minutes and swirl it.


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks colt. Ill give it a try.


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## RJ (Apr 14, 2014)

MS, long time no see brother. Even if you brewed it poorly, worst it would do it hurt a bit. You'll be fine. I would consider re-filtering it just because you never know what could happen in 8 years. Most people think BA sterilizes gear, but it dos not. Its a preservative that keeps bacteria from forming. That being said, it is water-soluble, so over time the efficacy of the BA could have been compromised if the seal wasn't solid or whatever if their was an vapor introduced to the vial somehow. Doubtful, but I'm just covering worst-case here. 

A few whatmans are cheap as dirt and if anything has formed in the vial(s) you will take care of it with the filtering. I would also get some bloods done about 4-6 weeks in (if you're not dead that is. haha j/k) and see how it turns out.


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## MS1605 (Apr 14, 2014)

Dude, I saw your name a few days ago and wondered if it was the same RJ! ****ing stoked your here.

I would like to go on record right now by saying those old pics you posted on Ology, I think it was you standing in front of your open garage, is the physique I have been after for years now (no Homo). 

Thanks for the insight brother. So Glad your around!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 14, 2014)

RJ said:


> MS, long time no see brother. Even if you brewed it poorly, worst it would do it hurt a bit. You'll be fine. I would consider re-filtering it just because you never know what could happen in 8 years. Most people think BA sterilizes gear, but it dos not. Its a preservative that keeps bacteria from forming. That being said, it is water-soluble, so over time the efficacy of the BA could have been compromised if the seal wasn't solid or whatever if their was an vapor introduced to the vial somehow. Doubtful, but I'm just covering worst-case here.
> 
> A few whatmans are cheap as dirt and if anything has formed in the vial(s) you will take care of it with the filtering. I would also get some bloods done about 4-6 weeks in (if you're not dead that is. haha j/k) and see how it turns out.



BA actually can sterilize a solution in as little concentration as .5% I believe but it requires a week or so to do it that way


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## RJ (Apr 15, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> BA actually can sterilize a solution in as little concentration as .5% I believe but it requires a week or so to do it that way



BA prevents bacteria from forming. It can kill certain microbes but it doesn't 'sterilize' gear as it does not get rid of the impurities. That is the filtering job. Big difference. Saying BA will sterilize gear sounds like as long as you add it you don't have to do anything else. Which couldn't be farther from the truth. 

Might be semantics, but as simple as home brew is, it can get ****ed up very easy.


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## RJ (Apr 15, 2014)

MS1605 said:


> Dude, I saw your name a few days ago and wondered if it was the same RJ! ****ing stoked your here.
> 
> I would like to go on record right now by saying those old pics you posted on Ology, I think it was you standing in front of your open garage, is the physique I have been after for years now (no Homo).
> 
> Thanks for the insight brother. So Glad your around!



I think that was my posing routine from before the Georgia. Haha lonnnnnnng time ago. Now I'm just old! Good to see u brother.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 15, 2014)

RJ said:


> BA prevents bacteria from forming. It can kill certain microbes but it doesn't 'sterilize' gear as it does not get rid of the impurities. That is the filtering job. Big difference. Saying BA will sterilize gear sounds like as long as you add it you don't have to do anything else. Which couldn't be farther from the truth.
> 
> Might be semantics, but as simple as home brew is, it can get ****ed up very easy.



No brother not saying filtering isn't a must. You're right impurities can be left behind but sterilization by definition is removing or killing bacteria and other types of microorganisms which BA CAN do. It cannot remove contaminants or impurities like you said though. 

I should have worded myself more clearly


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## RJ (Apr 15, 2014)

we sure have been disagreeing alot lately. 

Is this my wife?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 15, 2014)

RJ said:


> we sure have been disagreeing alot lately.
> 
> Is this my wife?



Trust me brother, you would not wish this hair on any female hahahaha.


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## JAXNY (Apr 15, 2014)

RJ....just give it up. Any more disagreeing with Doc and he will be presenting you with a 2 maybe 3 page thesis on sterilization.....just giving you a heads up. LOL.


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## RJ (Apr 15, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> RJ....just give it up. Any more disagreeing with Doc and he will be presenting you with a 2 maybe 3 page thesis on sterilization.....just giving you a heads up. LOL.



hahaha. now thats ****ing funny. 

I think we have all missed something very important here. What kind of ****ing lunatic makes a batch of gear and then sits on it for 8 years? I mean thats admirable and all that but damn man!! 

MS, seriously, what has the transformation been like naturally in the last 8 years? Where'd you start and where are you now? Also maybe throw in your training and diet. You may not even need gear yet if you haven't hit all the bases... or if you've been lifting like a girl.


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## JAXNY (Apr 15, 2014)

I kid you not brother, I'd almost bet he's working on it as we speak. 
But yeah I was why this guy bothered to brew it and then sit on it for 8 years.? ??? I can see a few months maybe a year maybe even 2 but 8. Even if it's g2g and nothing is wrong with it. I'd still be concerned injecting something that old into my body. They put expiration dates on for a reason.


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## RJ (Apr 15, 2014)

If he's less than 200lbs I'm telling him to wait another 8 years. mlp


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## TheBlob (Apr 15, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> That's what I was thinking LOL.




Thats crazy this same thing happened to me when I got sober and for the first time saw my kids mom


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## TheBlob (Apr 15, 2014)

RJ said:


> If he's less than 200lbs I'm telling him to wait another 8 years. mlp



........Why?........


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## biggerben692000 (Apr 15, 2014)

i remember seeing Z's site yrs ago. It had an "underground" look/feel to it. I never ordered anything from him, ever. That being said, Z is a "Selective Scammer". He never would have lasted had he been a selective scammer with bunk/fake gear. Make sense? 
Then came the "Working Replicas" which were counterfeit but from what I've heard contained test E dosed around 250mg/ml. He had his lap dog pieces of shit making posts that would've enraged me. Posts that said that if they were fakes they were just as good and blah blah.
Exp dates, for the most part, are simply a way for Big Pharma to keep proper rotation of product to ensure a continual flow of new product the most cost effective and efficient way for their customers. 
If it sits for too long it is removed in a time frame pre determined by their people that ensures that new product is constantly in circulation.


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## RJ (Apr 15, 2014)

TheBlob said:


> ........Why?........



That was a joke..... Sort of.


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## MS1605 (Apr 15, 2014)

RJ said:


> hahaha. now thats ****ing funny.
> 
> I think we have all missed something very important here. What kind of ****ing lunatic makes a batch of gear and then sits on it for 8 years? I mean thats admirable and all that but damn man!!
> 
> MS, seriously, what has the transformation been like naturally in the last 8 years? Where'd you start and where are you now? Also maybe throw in your training and diet. You may not even need gear yet if you haven't hit all the bases... or if you've been lifting like a girl.



My biggest "problem" was this. I started seriously lifting when I was about 17. I didnt care how I looked or how bad my cardio was I just wanted to eat whole coops of chickens and plates of sweet potatoes and move as much weight as possible. So a few years after I had been lifting naturally I started reading on line about gear. Everyone online says wait until you are at least 25 to run gear. Well when I was about 19 My friend got me to go to his MMA class and I fell in love with It. I was fighting 5 nights a week, 3.5 hours a session. Cardio went sky high, Dropped BF%, Etc, Etc. But my muscle mass dropped to. I didnt know how to eat nearly enough to keep size and still train as intense as I was in MMA. After fighting for like 6 years I decided to drop the whole body workouts and try training more for hypertrophy while continuing to fight and it just didn't work. I train to intense in both and I just did not have the energy. 

So the problem was just a conflict in interest. After fighting for 8 years im calling it quites on that. It has taught me a great deal on how to condition myself but im back to really wanting to move some weight. Its hard when squats are your favorite exercise then you have to fight the next day. Coach would be yelling at me to move around more but my legs felt like wet noodles under me.


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## MS1605 (Apr 15, 2014)

P.S., I see most people have not picked up on RJs kind of humor. I knew him on a board a long time ago. Dont take him so serious all the time...


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## coltmc4545 (Apr 15, 2014)

RJ's an asshole...................

and that's exactly why I invited him over.


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## MS1605 (Apr 15, 2014)

Took the words right out of my mouth, colt.


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## RJ (Apr 15, 2014)

Stop it you two are making me all misty. 

MS, so you are ready to sell your Tapout shirts and SnapBack hats and start adding some meat to your frame. That's good  to hear. Ima low volume guy myself, but as long as you train with that same intensity and lift and eat heavy you will grow. I'd honestly like to see what you could do with a strength program and no gear yet since you are dumping all that conditioning work. But I understand if hare itching to use it. 

Keep it simple and get after it. Have all your ancillary shit and rock on. My advice is, if you are certain you want to be on for a while, even if you cycle, is to use the blast and cruise approach. PCT is horrible on gains no matter who you are and how you train until your hormones get back into swing, which takes much longer than most think. Yes it may increase your chances of trt in your future, but if yawns to get jacked, IMO there is no better way.


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## MS1605 (Apr 15, 2014)

RJ said:


> MS, so you are ready to sell your Tapout shirts and SnapBack hats and start adding some meat to your frame. That's good  to hear. Ima low volume guy myself, but as long as you train with that same intensity and lift and eat heavy you will grow. I'd honestly like to see what you could do with a strength program and no gear yet since you are dumping all that conditioning work. But I understand if hare itching to use it.
> 
> Keep it simple and get after it. Have all your ancillary shit and rock on. My advice is, if you are certain you want to be on for a while, even if you cycle, is to use the blast and cruise approach. PCT is horrible on gains no matter who you are and how you train until your hormones get back into swing, which takes much longer than most think. Yes it may increase your chances of trt in your future, but if yawns to get jacked, IMO there is no better way.



Haha, Actually, after years of fighting I managed to not acquire one piece of MMA clothing except my teams walkout shirts....


I have no problem waiting longer. Im obviously a patient person if I slept on all this test for so long.

Do people actually cruise as young as I am? I thought you did that shit when you were in your late 30s after a dozen or 2 cycles? I will have to read on it but im not apposed to it. My dad is on TRT after years of gear and training in the 70s.... He is loving life so I dont see a downside.


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## RJ (Apr 16, 2014)

MS1605 said:


> Haha, Actually, after years of fighting I managed to not acquire one piece of MMA clothing except my teams walkout shirts....
> 
> 
> I have no problem waiting longer. Im obviously a patient person if I slept on all this test for so long.
> ...



yes they do. at least the smart ones do. haha

Let me be clear. I'm not saying recovery isn't important. But cycling several times a year requires alot more than just a few months to recover. Even if your test levels are back in range. There are other things in play. This is why guys after 10 years of cycling and PCT, even done 'correctly', have gained very little real muscle during that time. Its also due to diet and training of course, but altering your hormones does alot of weird shit. After 23 years of this shit, it is my opinion that if you are looking to get jacked, and planing on doing a few years worth of gear, the blast and cruise method is a wayyy better approach. 

That being said, most will take advantage of this and 'cruise' on wayyyy more than they need. The cruise is supposed to be bringing your body back to a point that avoids homeostasis and you can still keep all of your 'real' gains. This takes some trial and error, but it ain't 500mg a week of test. haha

What does your training look like right now? And what are your stats again?


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## MS1605 (Apr 16, 2014)

RJ said:


> What does your training look like right now? And what are your stats again?



This is a hard question to answer because im in a huge transition period in my life. 15 months ago I opened a restaurant with another guy. I have been working 7 days a week for the past 15 months. Averaging 90 hours a week. I trained about 3 times a week during this time but it was always on little sleep and half assed. In 15 months I have only had 11 days off total. 

That being said, last week I sat down with my partnered and worked out a new schedule. My new schedule gives me sundays off, monday and wednesday mornings off and tue, thurs, fri, and sat evening off. This represents a 25 hour a week hour cut. Thus the reason im back online looking to get my ducks in a row. I want to train atleast 4 days a week and do cardio and abs on 2 of my off days. 

Growing has never been a problem for me. I sneeze and my bi's grow. Buuuuut equally, if I eat a piece of cake my belly grows. So im looking to tighten the **** up my diet and get shit done.

stats are 27yo, about 205lb right now at 5'11.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 16, 2014)

MS1605 said:


> This is a hard question to answer because im in a huge transition period in my life. 15 months ago I opened a restaurant with another guy. I have been working 7 days a week for the past 15 months. Averaging 90 hours a week. I trained about 3 times a week during this time but it was always on little sleep and half assed. In 15 months I have only had 11 days off total.
> 
> That being said, last week I sat down with my partnered and worked out a new schedule. My new schedule gives me sundays off, monday and wednesday mornings off and tue, thurs, fri, and sat evening off. This represents a 25 hour a week hour cut. Thus the reason im back online looking to get my ducks in a row. I want to train atleast 4 days a week and do cardio and abs on 2 of my off days.
> 
> ...



4 days per week is plenty of time to train. Keeping your training intense and heavy is going to keep body fat in check. Each training day should revolve around a particular compound lift. So a day for squat a day for bench a day for deadlift and a day for over head press. After working the main lift throw in 2 or 3 accessory exercises.


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## MS1605 (Apr 16, 2014)

Pillar, this is exactly how I train.

although sometimes I throw a 5th day in and either do another day of deads or another day of squats. My 2 favorite lifts.

thanks for your input, sir.


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## RJ (Apr 16, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> 4 days per week is plenty of time to train. Keeping your training intense and heavy is going to keep body fat in check. Each training day should revolve around a particular compound lift. So a day for squat a day for bench a day for deadlift and a day for over head press. After working the main lift throw in 2 or 3 accessory exercises.



I agree. I train two days a week now maybe 3 and it's plenty. 

MS I would to see you try Wendlers 531 program. So simple yet so versatile. Got me strong as fuvk!


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## MS1605 (Apr 16, 2014)

I have done 5/3/1 in the past and made big gains but that was with no diet restrictions. I cant do that any more ( the latter part.) Being strong but a fat dude with no cardio is not for me anymore. 

Any chance you think the 5/3/1 would work with carb cycling. Cycling has worked very well for me in the past.  Again, it sucks but I have no problem making gains when I eat like a pig. I just gain a lot of fat as well. Im 27 with an 8 year old, I need to be strong and in good shape at this point.

Sorry, that was a lot of unorganized randomness that I just dumped out of my head....


-Mike


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## RJ (Apr 17, 2014)

MS1605 said:


> I have done 5/3/1 in the past and made big gains but that was with no diet restrictions. I cant do that any more ( the latter part.) Being strong but a fat dude with no cardio is not for me anymore.
> 
> Any chance you think the 5/3/1 would work with carb cycling. Cycling has worked very well for me in the past.  Again, it sucks but I have no problem making gains when I eat like a pig. I just gain a lot of fat as well. Im 27 with an 8 year old, I need to be strong and in good shape at this point.
> 
> ...



lets put it this way. in the last two years i have lost over 40lbs changing my eating habits on just TRT. We ended our last 531 run last August and this was a video from a week or so before we switched again. I'm sitting around 220lbs here, somewhere around 11-12%. I'm even leaner now and pulled just shy of 600 and benched in the low 400s in the past two weeks. 

fyi, the math is wrong on this deadlift. its actually 605lbs. mlp my point is, just because you lift for strength doesn't mean you have to be fat. Actually my pull now is just as strong as it was when i was 262lbs.


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## RJ (Apr 17, 2014)

So the answer is yes. you can carb cycle. Hell ive done a modified Keto on 531. you should always lift heavy. whether you want to get big or get lean. lift heavy.


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## MS1605 (Apr 17, 2014)

Good shit, RJ. 

Im going to put together a new split and a new diet plan and get to work. 

Thanks for the insight as always, Homie.


-Mike.


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