# AR15 vs Home Invaders - "Unfair Advantage"



## Milo (Apr 4, 2017)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sabote...-had-unfair-advantage-conferred-by-ar-15/amp/

*“There’s got to be a limit to that law, I mean he shot all three of them; there was no need for that,” said Schumacher.


*The grandfather of Jacob Redfearn believes shooting and killing the 17-year-old and his friends was not needed.


Everyone be sure to give your invading rapists, murderers, and thieves a fighting chance.


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## BRICKS (Apr 4, 2017)

A) Don't come in uninvited 

B) See A


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## NbleSavage (Apr 4, 2017)

Bricks nails this one. You come into my home unannounced, you get what you get.


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## stonetag (Apr 4, 2017)

Invading my house gives "say ello to my little friend" a whole new meaning.


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## trodizzle (Apr 4, 2017)

Milo said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/sabote...-had-unfair-advantage-conferred-by-ar-15/amp/
> 
> *“There’s got to be a limit to that law, I mean he shot all three of them; there was no need for that,” said Schumacher.
> 
> ...



Guess the risk wasn't worth the reward in this case. What a bunch of dumbasses.


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## ToolSteel (Apr 4, 2017)

They started it. 3 vs 1 isn't exactly fair either.


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## Joliver (Apr 4, 2017)

And before their family says it on tv....I'm sure some of the rounds hit their legs.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 4, 2017)

I would have invited the intruders to bake some brownies with me and sip hot tea


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## NoQuarter (Apr 4, 2017)

So,  if he would have "less" rounds, it might have been okay?  Or maybe people prefer the headlines to read, " Home invasion robbery leaves resident dead, still under investigation, no suspects".  Idiots!  To me, this person protecting his house probably "prevented" someone else from being the victim of a brutal crime.


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## Jada (Apr 4, 2017)

Unfair.... Fk that.  U come into my house to rob me and my family .. Im making sure u leave in a body bag.


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## pitbull (Apr 4, 2017)

OH come on what is the sport in that, He should have hunted them down slowly and mistakenly shot all their family members also


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## BRICKS (Apr 4, 2017)

It's the same BS every time.  "He was unarmed".  How much damage do you think I can do to someone if I am unarmed?  Only difference is I need to get closer.


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## IHI (Apr 4, 2017)

NoQuarter said:


> So,  if he would have "less" rounds, it might have been okay?  Or maybe people prefer the headlines to read, " Home invasion robbery leaves resident dead, still under investigation, no suspects".  Idiots!  To me, this person protecting his house probably "prevented" someone else from being the victim of a brutal crime.



Sadly with the liberal driven mainstream media, thats EXACTLY what they want, but you can be assured it wouldnt get 1 second of airtime either because it doesnt fit the narrative theyve been driving for the last 8yrs.

when isis is sawing off heads the liberal mindset is to ask, "well what did that person do to make them cut his head"


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## BigGameHunter (Apr 4, 2017)

I blame the old man. Gramps should have talked to him about taking a knife to a gunfight.


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## StillKickin (Apr 4, 2017)

Who here is from Texas?
Isn't it Texas that pretty much says "Good job home owner, you killed every ****ing one of them for us". Go about your daily business now unmolested and alive. 
Or have I heard the stories wrong?


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## Iron1 (Apr 4, 2017)

That guy is going to spend a good long while and a fortune defending his son from the robbers surviving family members.


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## BiologicalChemist (Apr 4, 2017)

I'd say this was justified they were invading this mans home arms with weapons....they just made the wrong decision (pieces of shit) brought the wrong weapons and paid the price. This is self defense. 

If there was an incident where I shot someone coming into my home and they were down and no longer an immediate threat to me and they were clearly in pain and begging for their life i would not execute them...I would watch them and call the police.


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## Battletoad (Apr 4, 2017)

His grandfather mentioned his grandson carrying brass knuckles. Sorry pops, but that's intent to do bodily harm. The kid was outnumbered 3 to 1, and did what he had to do, to neutralize the threat. Like others have stated; don't enter another person's home uninvited.


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## Milo (Apr 4, 2017)

Sorry old man but your grandson was a piece of shit and he and his friends deserved death. Sneaking into someones house with weapons. That in itself seems a bit "unfair" as well.


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## John Ziegler (Apr 5, 2017)

Woulda been more fun using a 12g pump & double ought buck.


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## Georgia (Apr 5, 2017)

For every one dumbass whining about this being "unfair"...there are 15 million others agreeing those ****ers should've been shot and killed for breaking and entering with weapons.

I have yet to see anyone besides the chicken shit family members say this wasn't right or fair for these boys to "get what they got"


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## IHI (Apr 5, 2017)

Georgia said:


> For every one dumbass whining about this being "unfair"...there are 15 million others agreeing those ****ers should've been shot and killed for breaking and entering with weapons.
> 
> I have yet to see anyone besides the chicken shit family members say this wasn't right or fair for these boys to "get what they got"



Which is fine until you get an ubber liberal prosecutor working for an ubber liberal DA and they hand pick the finest liberal jury they can....and even if your 100% right, these super freaks will only hear one minute statement and their decision is made, your a murderer, will be sued, etc...

sadly, thats todays reality


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## BRICKS (Apr 5, 2017)

In any defensive shooting situation you can bet you'll be sued in civil court even if you're good to go from the district attorney.  Be prepared to spend every penny you have, lose your home, etc...defending it.  The trade off is you are alive.  That is the serious nature of that kind of incident.  I highly recommend insurance (CCW Safe is what I have) for this.  It's something like $150/year for you and your spouse, and provides expert attorneys should you need them.  I went to a seminar with a states attorney and a defense attorney who specializes in defensive shooting representation.  The defense attorney's retainer is $50,000.  Also learned in my state that if you used reloads YOU will be paying for ballistics testing not the state.  They said that was about 180K.  Get the insurance.


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## NbleSavage (Apr 5, 2017)

^^ Fawkin' Aye - good advice, Bricks ^^


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## IHI (Apr 5, 2017)

Wow, great advice Bricks, honestly didnt know such a beast existed


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## Youngblood1984 (Apr 5, 2017)

Don't break in my place !! Yes I agree on the whole going over board but I have family to protect and it's not going to be there's or my life !


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## Youngblood1984 (Apr 5, 2017)

Weather it's a knife , bat , gun don't madder to me a gun is a gun at that close of a range it could be a .22 cal


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## anewguy (Apr 5, 2017)

Just got one of these.  Loving it.  However, I have a shotgun, a .45, and an AR all within 10 feet of my bed.  If I ever need one during the night, bet your ass I'm getting the shotgun.


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## Youngblood1984 (Apr 5, 2017)

anewguy said:


> Just got one of these.  Loving it.  However, I have a shotgun, a .45, and an AR all within 10 feet of my bed.  If I ever need one during the night, bet your ass I'm getting the shotgun.



Yea I agree , I build ar 15's so I built one for close attacks but yes the shot gun for sure man I just going to grab something and I don't care what it is cause when it comes to your family I'm not worried about what I'm grabbing I just grabbing !!!!      That's one reason why I got into building them cause I liked that I can make one for any aplacation


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## Milo (Apr 5, 2017)

Honestly I just ****ing hate the court system. Peoole will sue for anything because theyre entitled and want free shit. Fell down the stairs trying to rape someone? Go ahead and sue. They should have left the light on for you. Just sickening. It should be back to the old times where if youve got beef with someone, you call em out and kill each other.


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## John Ziegler (Apr 5, 2017)

[In essence, dueling is still*legalaccording to sections 22.01 and 22.06 in the*Texas*penal code. The*lawstates that any two individuals who feel the need to*fight*can agree tomutual combat*through a signed for or even just verbal or implied communication and have at it (fists only, however)



Milo said:


> It should be back to the old times where if youve got beef with someone, you call em out and kill each other.


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## Milo (Apr 5, 2017)

That would be ideal but people are ****ing pussies and wouldnt do it. You could bitch slap them and theyd run straight to their lawyer. What a pathetic time to be alive.


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## silvereyes87 (Apr 5, 2017)

I read that they are thinking of charging the son of the homeowner,  it doesn't say specifically a charge just "charging " . The guys had a knife which we all know can kill and brass knuckles,  not even legal to own. In Texas at least. If u crack someone just right with brass knucks you can kill them.  Damn right I'd unload on these fukers.  Shouldn't even be a question if he was right or wrong to do so.


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## Georgia (Apr 5, 2017)

IHI said:


> Which is fine until you get an ubber liberal prosecutor working for an ubber liberal DA and they hand pick the finest liberal jury they can....and even if your 100% right, these super freaks will only hear one minute statement and their decision is made, your a murderer, will be sued, etc...
> 
> sadly, thats todays reality



Unfortunately, you are correct. This brings to me this case that happened years ago.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/04/nation/la-na-arizona-rancher-20110205


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## Iron1 (Apr 5, 2017)

My state requires a basic education course before being able to ask permission to exercise your unalienable right. The course is, imo, not an issue,  basic safety, handling, laws, etc. all good stuff. The courses are usually taught by either veterans of the US armed forces or members of the police force. Of course, during some of the banter some pretty interesting stories and questions come out. Despite what the laws say, a lot of these guys are on our side and consider them just as ludicrous as you or I.  One of the examples that was given to us when asking about justifiable use of force stuck with me. Defense of personal property and how the castle doctrine works in my state. 

I'm paraphrasing here so bear with me.

You're at home with your family watching tv after a nice night of playing Yahtzee. Crackhead Mike from down the lane breaks through your door and immediately throws his arms up
"Whoa whoa whoa! Mike says, "I'm just here for the TV guys, I'm not armed and I'm not looking for a fight".
Mike, with his arms still in the air moves slowly towards your TV, unplugs it from the wall, tucks it under his arm and slowly starts moving for the door. 
In my state, there is nothing you can legally do at this point other than to call the police and watch helplessly as the man standing 2' in front of you robs you. 

If you lay hands on him, it's assault and you lose your right to own firearms.
You have no reasonable belief that the person in front of you was going to do harm to yourself or your family, if you use deadly force, you're a murder. 

This person broke into your home and has more rights than you do.


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## Milo (Apr 5, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> My state requires a basic education course before being able to ask permission to exercise your unalienable right. The course is, imo, not an issue,  basic safety, handling, laws, etc. all good stuff. The courses are usually taught by either veterans of the US armed forces or members of the police force. Of course, during some of the banter some pretty interesting stories and questions come out. Despite what the laws say, a lot of these guys are on our side and consider them just as ludicrous as you or I.  One of the examples that was given to us when asking about justifiable use of force stuck with me. Defense of personal property and how the castle doctrine works in my state.
> 
> I'm paraphrasing here so bear with me.
> 
> ...



Not an issue. He'd be dead and thrown in a wood chipper as fertilizer.


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## NbleSavage (Apr 5, 2017)

I keep a throw-down at home for just such an occasion. Turns out he was armed after all...


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## BRICKS (Apr 5, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> My state requires a basic education course before being able to ask permission to exercise your unalienable right. The course is, imo, not an issue,  basic safety, handling, laws, etc. all good stuff. The courses are usually taught by either veterans of the US armed forces or members of the police force. Of course, during some of the banter some pretty interesting stories and questions come out. Despite what the laws say, a lot of these guys are on our side and consider them just as ludicrous as you or I.  One of the examples that was given to us when asking about justifiable use of force stuck with me. Defense of personal property and how the castle doctrine works in my state.
> 
> I'm paraphrasing here so bear with me.
> 
> ...



In this same seminar that I referred to with the states attorney and defense attorney the prosecutor was asked the question about some guy kicking in the front door.  States attorney said if it was his home he'd be dead before he crossed the threshold.  We have decent statutes in our state.


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## Iron1 (Apr 6, 2017)

BRICKS said:


> In this same seminar that I referred to with the states attorney and defense attorney the prosecutor was asked the question about some guy kicking in the front door.  States attorney said if it was his home he'd be dead before he crossed the threshold.  We have decent statutes in our state.



It's of course going to be different for different states. I'm in one of the worst states to be a firearms owner. 

Another story of our shitty laws from the same officers:

Older guy was having a  heart attack in his home. He just so happens to be concealed carrying at the time. Him and his wife are older so they aren't much help to themselves. He takes off his IWB holster with the pistol still inside and sets it on the table to make it easier for the EMT's to handle him when they arrive. Emergency services respond, see the firearm on the table and hit him with a improper storage of a firearm charge. He fights it in court and wins but damn man, can you imagine? fwiw, the charges they brought against him can carry a prison sentence between 1 year minimum to a full 10 years and or up to a $10,000 fine.


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## Joliver (Apr 6, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> My state requires a basic education course before being able to ask permission to exercise your unalienable right. The course is, imo, not an issue,  basic safety, handling, laws, etc. all good stuff. The courses are usually taught by either veterans of the US armed forces or members of the police force. Of course, during some of the banter some pretty interesting stories and questions come out. Despite what the laws say, a lot of these guys are on our side and consider them just as ludicrous as you or I.  One of the examples that was given to us when asking about justifiable use of force stuck with me. Defense of personal property and how the castle doctrine works in my state.
> 
> I'm paraphrasing here so bear with me.
> 
> ...



Something tells me "mike" would have tried to steal one of my steak knives first...know what I mean. *wink*

edit: and only one version of the story gets told--mine.


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## ToolSteel (Apr 6, 2017)

Joliver said:


> Something tells me "mike" would have tried to steal one of my steak knives first...know what I mean. *wink*
> 
> edit: and only one version of the story gets told--mine.


Dead men tell no tales


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## Mythos (Apr 6, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> My state requires a basic education course before being able to ask permission to exercise your unalienable right. The course is, imo, not an issue,  basic safety, handling, laws, etc. all good stuff. The courses are usually taught by either veterans of the US armed forces or members of the police force. Of course, during some of the banter some pretty interesting stories and questions come out. Despite what the laws say, a lot of these guys are on our side and consider them just as ludicrous as you or I.  One of the examples that was given to us when asking about justifiable use of force stuck with me. Defense of personal property and how the castle doctrine works in my state.
> 
> I'm paraphrasing here so bear with me.
> 
> ...


Damn, what ****ed up state is that?? in most states even with misdemeanors you can perform a citizens arrest if you witness the crime..and you're allowed to use reasonable force to do so. Here in CO you can definitely lay hands, and if he resists, it's on.


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## Iron1 (Apr 6, 2017)

Mythos said:


> Damn, what ****ed up state is that?? in most states even with misdemeanors you can perform a citizens arrest if you witness the crime..and you're allowed to use reasonable force to do so. Here in CO you can definitely lay hands, and if he resists, it's on.



In my state, citizens arrests can only be performed if the person is committing or admitted intent to commit a felony.

However, my state also does not classify strict breaking and entering as either. An intent charge needs to be tacked on. In my example, crackhead mike clearly stated his intent was for the TV and in this case since it's value is less than $250, Mike has not committed a felony and you cannot legally perform a citizens arrest. If you do, you yourself are committing a felony through unlawful detention. 

Also a fun fact, my state only classifies it as breaking and entering if it happens at night. If it's during the day and intent is unknown, it's mere trespassing which is again a misdemeanor charge. If you have no idea why Mike is in your house, things get even more complicated. 

You have to be a lawyer and a damned good one to even run through all the possible outcomes of what might happen to you and your family if you do anything other than roll over and play dead. It's disgusting.


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## Joliver (Apr 6, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> In my states, citizens arrests can only be performed if the person is committing or admitted intent to commit a felony.
> 
> However, my state also does not classify strict breaking and entering as either. An intent charge needs to be tacked on. In my example, crackhead mike clearly stated his intent was for the TV and in this case since it's value is less than $250, Mike has not committed a felony and you cannot legally perform a citizens arrest. If you do, you yourself are committing a felony through unlawful detention.
> 
> ...



My takeaway: a super awesome massively expensive tv is a license to kill.


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## Iron1 (Apr 6, 2017)

Joliver said:


> My takeaway: a super awesome massively expensive tv is a license to kill.



Cost =/= value 

Lets run through another example of how messed up state laws can get. 

Say crackhead mike knew some nuances regarding self defense laws and found a loophole (that actually does exist in state law).
He turns his back to you before walking over to the TV and walking out the door all the while his back is turned to you. 

Can't shoot the guy, shooting someone in the back is an automatic manslaughter charge here even if they were running for a more advantageous spot to attack you from. Dead men don't tell tales but forensics do. Can't perform a citizens arrest because even though you paid $5000 for your amazing TV, an insurance company might only value it at $230. Is it late enough in the day for that trespassing charge to be ruled breaking and entering? You don't know, so unless you're willing to risk prison for being wrong, you can't clearly say he's committing a felony.  

My intent in bringing this up was to identify just how screwed up it is when it comes to what should be the simple subject of defending ones own self legally (in some states). Most would agree that when someone breaks in, the only thought is to survive the encounter. It's completely unfair that the surviving homeowner may spend the rest of their days in jail because they didn't evaluate the subtle nuances of state law before deciding that their life and the life of their family was more important than that of ol' crackhead mike.

Trust me, I'm with you guys on this one. You enter my home uninvited, you're risking your life. A life spent fighting legal battles is still better than bleeding out in your boxer shorts at 3am.


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## Milo (Apr 6, 2017)

Whoever made these laws should be hung in public.


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## BRICKS (Apr 6, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> It's of course going to be different for different states. I'm in one of the worst states to be a firearms owner.
> 
> Another story of our shitty laws from the same officers:
> 
> Older guy was having a  heart attack in his home. He just so happens to be concealed carrying at the time. Him and his wife are older so they aren't much help to themselves. He takes off his IWB holster with the pistol still inside and sets it on the table to make it easier for the EMT's to handle him when they arrive. Emergency services respond, see the firearm on the table and hit him with a improper storage of a firearm charge. He fights it in court and wins but damn man, can you imagine? fwiw, the charges they brought against him can carry a prison sentence between 1 year minimum to a full 10 years and or up to a $10,000 fine.



In his own home?  What fkd up state is that?  When my wife is home alone a handgun is within arms reach at all times.  If she's in the kitchen it doesn't do any good locked up in the safe or in the nightstand drawer.  

Another thing that's stupid is carrying without one in the chamber.  The average person can cover 20 feet in 1.5 seconds.  The average LE person can present their weapon on target in 2.0 seconds.  Now, they probably don't practice drawing their firearm like they should, most people don't.  But you get the point.  From a concealed carry at 20 feet most times knife can win.  

I highly recommend taking at least a couple defensive shooting classes.  They're very educational and actually a lot of fun.


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## Iron1 (Apr 6, 2017)

BRICKS said:


> In his own home?  What fkd up state is that?  When my wife is home alone a handgun is within arms reach at all times.  If he's in the kitchen it doesn't do any good locked up in the safe or in the nightstand drawer.



Bricks, in my state if your firearm is in your home several things need to happen for it to be considered legal.

1.) You must have a valid LTC
2.) Your firearms had better be entered into the state registry
3.) You'd better not have AR magazines that are newer than 1994 (they check)
4.) Your firearm must either be: 
  4a.) on your person at all times or 
  4b.) locked up with a trigger lock or in a closed, locked firearms locker/safe.
5.) Your ammunition must be locked up at all times in a separate area than the firearm it belong to. (you cannot legally keep ammo in the same gun safe as your guns even if it's all locked up tighter than fort nox)

Legally you cannot keep a loaded sidearm in your dresser drawer or anywhere other than on your person, period.

Failing any of the above steps opens you up to criminal and possibly felony charges.

This is what happens when legislators need to justify their positions year after year. They come up with laws that have nothing to do with the truth or even what makes sense. These laws are also completely unenforceable. When do police ever check your firearms storage? Never. But you'd better believe they'll be looking for violations if they do need to enter your home for some reason. That's how these charges always happen, police responded to a noise complaint and find a litany of other charges and now the person is going away for 20 years. They WANT firearms owners to be criminals in waiting because it fits their agenda. "Scary gun owners break the laws, they're bad people!"

Pisses me right off.


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## Seeker (Apr 6, 2017)

It's a hell of a thing killing a man. You take away all he's got, and all he's ever gonna have.  Will ~ Unforgiving.


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## BRICKS (Apr 6, 2017)

I'm gonna guess Illinois or CA.  Sorry to hear that, Iron1.  Quite a few laws there I'd be breaking.


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## BRICKS (Apr 6, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> Cost =/= value
> 
> Lets run through another example of how messed up state laws can get.
> 
> ...



The difference is defending yourself or the TV.


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## Iron1 (Apr 6, 2017)

BRICKS said:


> The difference is defending yourself or the TV.



I'm not going to argue specific details about hypothetical situations Bricks. I am only trying to explain how self defense in the home (for some states) isn't as black and white as it should be.


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## BRICKS (Apr 6, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> I'm not going to argue specific details about hypothetical situations Bricks. I am only trying to explain how self defense in the home (for some states) isn't as black and white as it should be.



And I agree with you 100%.  In any situation the DA is going to make a determination on whether to charge or not based on information given to them by LE on the scene, as well so any further investigation.


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## Mythos (Apr 7, 2017)

BRICKS said:


> And I agree with you 100%.  In any situation the DA is going to make a determination on whether to charge or not based on information given to them by LE on the scene, as well so any further investigation.



I think this is what it comes down to. 
Still..after reading this thread I'm very glad I live where I do.


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## Iron1 (Apr 7, 2017)

Discussing ridiculous state laws pissed me off enough to buy a new gun last night.

Picked up a new Ruger 10/22 and 500rds of ammo for $7 out of pocket. It also took me almost an hour just to process all the damned paperwork...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 7, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> Discussing ridiculous state laws pissed me off enough to buy a new gun last night.
> 
> Picked up a new Ruger 10/22 and 500rds of ammo for $7 out of pocket. It also took me almost an hour just to process all the damned paperwork...



how many bj's did you offer to get that beauty for 7$ out of pocket? Or did you promise to kill someone for it lol


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## anewguy (Apr 7, 2017)

7 bucks?!  seriously...  how did you work that out?


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## Iron1 (Apr 7, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> how many bj's did you offer to get that beauty for 7$ out of pocket?


I think the checkout gal thought I was cute.



anewguy said:


> 7 bucks?!  seriously...  how did you work that out?



The story is a lot less exciting than Doc makes it out to be.

The long and the short of it is that I waited about 7 months for it to go on sale. Snagged it for 25% off and used a few gift cards. The $7 figure is just the balance of what the gift cards didn't cover.


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## Mythos (Apr 7, 2017)

Here's a feel good story for you: 

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2017/01/...n-coma-after-army-vet-puts-him-in-choke-hold/

Today they announced that they wouldn't charge the vet.


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## BigGameHunter (Apr 8, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> Discussing ridiculous state laws pissed me off enough to buy a new gun last night.
> 
> Picked up a new Ruger 10/22 and 500rds of ammo for $7 out of pocket. It also took me almost an hour just to process all the damned paperwork...



Quite possibly the best 'varmit' rifle for quality and price I owned the same gun. Still thinking about the mini 14 with a scope 
maybe old news to you but Ruger makes ARs too. About 600 bucks at our gun shows.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 8, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> I think the checkout gal thought I was cute.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



did you put it in her butt???

ps... Me thinks you're cute too <3


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 8, 2017)

Its about time that the victim had an "unfair" advantage.


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## saltylifter (Apr 8, 2017)

Your home is where you and your family reside. I have little girls, if anyone comes to my house unannounced they will not be able to make that desisions twice. 
With all the news today those kids knew that they could be getting killed. Don't **** with people these days. Get a job and be a healthy person to society.


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## knightmare999 (Apr 11, 2017)

BRICKS said:


> It's the same BS every time. "He was unarmed". How much damage do you think I can do to someone if I am unarmed? Only difference is I need to get closer.


	Not waiting to find out if they're armed.
	If the Marine Corps memorabilia hasn't encouraged them to retreat, I assume they're prepared for battle, too.

	"Unfair advantage" is being ambushed at home.
	"Homefield advantage scores 3-0 for win against scumbags" is a better headline, in my opinion.


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## PFM (Apr 11, 2017)

3 assholes with Brass knuckles and a knife is a Liberal's 'feelings' of "unarmed".


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## DarksideSix (Apr 11, 2017)

More liberal hypocrisy. I feel sorry for anyone that comes in my house uninvited.


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## Itburnstopee (Apr 12, 2017)

If someone breaks into my home I'll look for money with them


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