# GHRP/GHRH stack more effective than HGH??



## gymrat827 (Jan 30, 2012)

Written By Mike Arnold   (copied & pasted, not the entire convo, but all the important info)



GH is GH, whether it is produced by the pituitary or made in the lab. The body does not know any difference. Gh peps cause the pituitary to release GH, while regular GH is simply injected straight into the body from an exogenous source (such as a lab).

One difference between GH peps and GH is that injectable GH stays active in the body for much longer...probably 4X longer, but at the same time, injectable GH does not result in a very large spike (compared to GH peps), unless the dosage is very high. GH peps result in a large burst of GH which lasts for a shorter period of time than injectable GH, but the spikes are much higher...anywhere between 2-10X higher, depending on the dose of both the GH peps and GH.

For example: A single 100 mcg dose of GHRP-2 & modGRF1-29 will result in a GH spike about 2-3X higher than a single 7 IU dose of injectable Gh administered all at once. However, this 7 IU inject will last stay active 3-4X as long as the GH peps. How long GH remains active in the body will have a considerable impact on its effectiveness. This is why a 7 IU inject of GH will crush a single 100/100 mcg inject of GH peps. 

Now, we've already determined that GH is GH, regardless of source, so no one should think that the GH produced by the body is somehow weaker than the GH produced in a lab....because it is not. This means that the primary difference in terms of effectiveness between GH peps and GH will be in the amount of time they stay active in the body. With GH peps staying active for a much shorter period of time, we need to correct this deficiency if we hope to achieve similar effects. Fortunately, the situation is easily remedied.

The solution is to inject GH on a more frequent basis. This will produce multiple large spikes in GH, with each lasting about 2 hours in length. Because the spikes with GH peptides are so high, GH peps used in higher dosages can actually cause an increase in GH equivalent to about 7-8 IU per day.

First of all, I did not say I think GH is more effective. Which one is more effective all depends on the dosage of each. I will go back to this shortly.

Secondly, if one was using GH peps in the doses you were using (400-800 mcg of GHRP-2 & 100 mcg of ModGRF 3-4X per day), yet they still experienced no results, then I would be 100% convinced that the peptides they were using were bunk. It is a literal impossibility to not experience sustained "moderate-high" levels of GH when using GH peps at those dosages & frequencies, as prove by university reserach.

The effectiveness of GH peptides is beyond dispute at this point, as confirmed by both scientific research, as well as real-world results numbering in the 1000's. The only two differences between GH peps & regular GH is in regards to their duration of action and the degree of elevation. 

It is true that a single injection of GH peptides remains active only about 1/4 as long as a single injection of exogenous GH, but this differemce can be minimized or even eliminated depending on the injection frequency of the GH peps.

One would have to inject GH peps about 4X per day to keep GH elevated as long as a single inject of exogenous GH...so if one chooses to inject GH peps at this frequency (3-4X daily is considered normal), then duration of action is not an issue when comparing it against a single injection of exogenous GH. 

In truth, the only real downfall to GH peps in their short duration of action, but as we can see, this can be made up for by doing multiple daily injects....kind of.

Now, if one is injecting exogenous GH only once per day, then this problem is easy to solbe, but if one wants to inject exogenous GH 2-3X per day...then one would have to inject GH peps 8-12 times per day in order to equal the same duration of action. Obviously, this is unrealistic for almost everyone, as GH peps can only be injected a maximum of every 3 hours, or 8X per day. So, while one could technically keep GH elevated as long as 2 daily injections of exogenous GH, most people are not willing or able to inject GH peps every 3 hours all day long.

Even though GH peps can only realistically keep GH elevated as long as 1-1.5 daily injects of exogenous GH, there is no doubt that even a single daily injection of exogenous GH...if the dosage is sufficient, can still furnish very good results. Many people inject GH only once per day at dosages of 5-10 IU and experience great results. One does not "have" to inject exogenous GH multiple times daily in order to recieve substantial benefits. In fact, the total dose is a more important factor than how many times one is injecting their GH per day. For example: One would get better results doing a single 10 IU inject per day, compared to injecting 1 IU 5X per day.

Now that we know GH peps can indeed keep GH levels elevated long enough to furnish impressive results, we needto look at the other difference between Gh & GH peps....but this difference is in favor of GH peps.

This difference has to do with how high GH is elevated per inject. According to reliable university reserach, just a single 100 mcg injection of GHRP-2 & ModGRF will elevate GH about 3X higher than an entire 7 IU inject of exogenous GH! That is impressive. Even more impressive is that this spike will rise as the dosage of GH peps increase...up to 10X higher than a 7 IU inject of exogenous GH.

On top of that, science shows that these spikes in Gh are responsible for much of the muscle growth we experience from GH, as spikes in GH turn on protein synthesis, while steady levels do not. For whatever reason this is the case, we do not know...but we do know spikes in GH are absolutely required in order to stimulate protein synthesis. GH pepides accomploish this very effectively.

So, if one chooses to inject higher doses of GH peps 4X per day, not only will they keep GH elevated as long as a regular injection of exogenous GH, but the levels of GH obtained will be much higher. This is why 1000's of people who are using high quality GH peptides proplery are experiencing the same benefits & side effects of moderate-high GH use. Any search over the Net will reveal that the overwhelmingly large majority of those using GH peps in higher dosages are claiming to experience very impressive results. In fact, I have NEVER heard a single person, other than in this thread, say they did not get good results, let alone "no" results. A program such as this which yields "no" results is surely using bunk peptides. Whether or not GH peps work is no longer the issue...we know they work "for sure". What we are just now figuring out is how to best use them to experience maximum increases in GH for the longest period of time. Much of the reserach which has taught us how to do this has just been conducted over the last year, so people are just now starting to catch on. I expect GH peptides to blow-yp this year, especially with the dropping prices. 

Below is an example of a very effective GH peptide protocol, which will yield results comparable to using 7-8 IU of GH per day. As anyone knows, that is quite an effective dose of GH and will bring forth fairly rapid results.


GHRP-2 @ 300 mcg 4X per day.

ModGRF1-29 @ 100 mcg 4X per day.


In is widely known that this program will deliver all the same side effects one would expect to exprience when using 7-8 IU of GH per day (assuming the peps are high quality..a lot are not). It is very common to experience swollen hands & feer, carpal tunnell-like symptoms, tiredness, and numbness in the extremeties, etc. I have not yet spoken with single individual (and I have spoken with 100's) who has used this program and not experienced at least a few of these sides, if not all of them. Not everyone experiences all these sides with regular Gh anyway, so that is to be expected. Overall, the general consensus is extremely postive, with signoficant decreases in bodyfat and noticable increases in muscle growth being reported all over the net.

Regarding cost, depending on where the peps are boght, the above-mentioned GH peptide program can be followed for as little as $80 something dollars per month! Now, that is dirt cheap, especially for what one gets out of it. It would cost much more to use an equivalent amount of exogeous GH, even when getting a great deal. As a final note, I will mention that I have used GH peps in over 100 clients now, all with very good results...and I have been involved in the peptide industry on almost every level for the last 2 years. In the end, I am not saying GH peps are more effective than exogenous GH...not at all. I am simply saying that GH peps, when used correctly and in high enough dosages, can furnish results compared to as much as 7-8 Iu of GH...although most of the GH pep programs out there won't elevate GH much more than about 3-4 IU. Obviously, injection 10 IU of GH is going to give far superior results to only 3 IU per day. Most guys don't use enough GH peps or use them frequently enough...usually both...or the peps they're using are low quality.



On another subject, you make a comparison between AAS and PH's, basically hinting that AAS are more effective. Well, it depends on what OTC products you're talking about, as most of today's OTC products are AAS. Some of the most potent muscle builders ever released have been OTC. In fact, the very most potent drug ever made was originally OTC. Not a single AAS in production today can surpass the mass-building power of methyldihydroboldenone (M1T)...not test...not Anadrol...nothing. SD is also more potent than every single oral currently in production, when it comes to adding lean mass over a short period of time...it surpasses Anadrol, D-bol, test, etc...according to both Vida, Hershberger, and real-world experience. There is also Methylstenbolone. Basically, some of today's OTC AAS are among the very strongest drugs on the market...anywhere. 



To help you out, I think there is a basic well known graph posted right on Dat's site showing the amount and length of GH elevation for 7 IU GH & 100/100 mcg of GH peps. Most, including Dat, have speculated that just a simple 100/100 mcg program will increase GH about 3 IU. This chart visually demonstrates this. Actually, it appear to be more than 3 IU, but most maintain conserative estimates, as we would rather be safe than sorry.

Much more recent reserah now shows that GHRP-2 will not desenstize at higher dosages, nor does it have a ceiling dose. This is really quite amazing...as the reserach shows that the higher the GHRP-2 dose rises, the more GH that is released. This is a very interesting study...and when these 2 studies are reviewed in context with one another, it is fairly easy extrapolate the results one might achieve when adminsitering these higher dosages in the correct frequencies. At any rate, I have no doubts at all that an increase of at least 6 IU would be EASY to achieve. The reserach is pretty straight forward. 


I know that 3 daily injects at that dose(100/100 GHRP/GHRH), done back to back (spaced 3 hours apart), will yield roughly a 3 IU increase in GH, with igf-1 levels peaking after the final inject. I am not sure how well igf-1 levels will be mainatained after not taking any injects since the previous day, but we will soon see.

I agree that GH is the superior choice once you get into moderate-high dosages, as GH peps aren't going to be able to cause equivalent increases in GH.

However, the debate wasn't necessarily about which one was the "better" product, but it was more so about the postives and negatives of each one and how those postive & negatives compare to each other. Also, these positives & negatives can change based on the circumstances. 

With that said, even though GH is the superior choice under several circumstances, I definitely think there are circumstances under which GH peptides are the better choice. There are also benefits associated with GH peps that exogenous GH cannot give, especially when the two are used in conjunction. I will explain.

What circumstances do I think GH peps are superior? When the dose of GH is rather low, for example. I would rather take GH peps optimally instead of using only 3 IU of GH. It is quite easy to raise GH above 3 IU when using GH peps in an optimal fashion. That is undisputable scientific fact. On top of that, it would cost less money. This would be one instance in which GH peps would be a financially wiser and more effective option.

One benefit to GH peptides, which GH cannot give, is their ability to prevent the suppression of natural GH. This benefit can be used to not only achieve higher levels of GH for a smaller cost than using GH alone, but would eliminate the recovery provess which takes place post-use. How so?

Well, in regards to increasing GH levels to a greater degree for a smaller cost, allow me to use the following example.

Let's say we have two people and one decides to use 7 IU of GH per day, while the other person decides to use 4 IU of GH + GH peps. How would this work out in the end regarding total GH levels?

After a while, the guy taking 7 IU of GH is going to end suppressing his natural GH production. The average person, depending on age and variability, is going to produce anywhere between roughly 1.5-4 IU per day. The average is probably around 2-3 IU. The younger someone is, the higher their GH levels usually are. The older someone is, the lower their GH levels usually are. Now, exogenous GH will not "completely" shutdown someone's natural GH production, but it will supress it sigificantly, similar to how AAS suppress one's natural testosterone production. This is not a good thing no matter how we view it.

So, even if we give the benefit of the doubt to GH and say this man will only suffer a partial suppression of 50% (although it will almost certainly be greater), the guy using 7 IU of GH is going to reduce his total GH level by 1-2 IU per day. Let's average it to 1.5 IU. This means that the 7 IU he was using is now only like 5.5 IU per day. This natural reduction in GH is a certainty...not speculation. Although we cannot say for certain how much this imaginary person's GH will be suppressed because everyone is different, there is no doubt his total GH levels will go down due to the suppressive actions of GH.

Now, let's say the other guy is using only 4 IU of exogenous GH + enough GH peps to result in a 4 IU increase in natural production (which is very reasonable increase for GH peps when using decent dosages and proper injection frequencies). This guy is going to maintain no less than a continuous 8 IU per day...not to mention any natural GH production which would take place independently of the GH peps. At any rate, we can safely say that 8 IU would be a reasonable figure under these circumstances.

The man using GH + GH peps is going to end up with greater total GH levels, (gauranteed), plus he will not have to deal with post-cycle recovery when he discontinues his GH program. Lastly, he will spend "less" money following this program compared to the man using 7 IU of GH per day alone. So, there are definitely benefits to using GH. 

As for cost-effectiveness, GH peps are without a doubt more cost-effective when comparing them against lower dosages of GH...as using 3-4 IU per day of GH wil cost much more, as well as result in less total GH. Once one gets up into higher dosages if GH, cost-effectiveness is no longer relevant, as GH peps can't elevate GH that high anyway...which means no comparison can be made in terms of cost-effectiveness.

GH is still the king and at no point was I ever attempting to say GH peps were better, but I was trying to say that there are definitely certain circumstances under which GH peps can be the superior choice...as well as deliver benefits which are unique to this class of drugs. In my opinion, anyone who is regularly using GH should be using at least a maintenance dosage of GH peps, in order to maintain both natural production and increase levels further. This can be done at a very low cost.

I will personally be starting on a similar program. Below is what I will be doing shortly.

5 IU of GH per day.

GHRP-2 @ 200 mcg 3X per day.
ModGRF1-29 @ 100 mcg 3X per day.

In the end, my GH level will approach 9-10 IU per day, while avoiding natural GH suppression completely.


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## benchingover500 (Jan 31, 2012)

great post.


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## PVL (Jan 31, 2012)

sounds interesting........might be doing this in the future


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## Goldy (Jan 31, 2012)

done em both.  GH is much better fi you can afford a good dose.  you cant go over saturation with the peps, so you do hit a ceiling.  using em all together is great but it is a lot of pins.


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## gymrat827 (Feb 1, 2012)

i think using both would be the best option.  you still get natural pulses, and still get the long lasting effects of real HGH.  peptides am, pre WO, real HGH post WO or pre bed.


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## Onlythebestwilldo (Jun 13, 2012)

What about using the ghrp on the 2 off days of normal HGH??


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## Pikiki (Jun 13, 2012)

I believe the issue with this protocol is the short pike on the peps will basicallly will not do too much. I being looking at this peps use for a loooong time now and I get to the conclusion the money you spend on Peps will be better to used it on real GH IMO...


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## gymrat827 (Jun 13, 2012)

Pikiki said:


> I believe the issue with this protocol is the short pike on the peps will basicallly will not do too much. I being looking at this peps use for a loooong time now and I get to the conclusion the money you spend on Peps will be better to used it on real GH IMO...



this is true....


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