# Diet advice



## colettiburger (Feb 18, 2015)

Hey guys, just wanted some input on my diet.  I currently am doing 4day split with a rest day followed by a cardio day.  Im thinking about doing ketosis on my 2 non lifting days.  Normal diet on my lifting days , high carb on leg day. Any feedback appreciated.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 18, 2015)

It takes a while to actually get yourself into a ketogenic state. It's not really something you can do one or two days per week. 

Maybe with metformin but you are asking for some nasty gastrointestinal sides


----------



## Spongy (Feb 18, 2015)

What is your goal?


----------



## colettiburger (Feb 18, 2015)

Body recomp I saw the diet guide that I think you posted so I thought it would be optimal to go carbless for non training days, I see now it takes time to ketogenic state but its it worthwhile to still do it that way?


----------



## trodizzle (Feb 18, 2015)

colettiburger said:


> Hey guys, just wanted some input on my diet.  I currently am doing 4day split with a rest day followed by a cardio day.  Im thinking about doing ketosis on my 2 non lifting days.  Normal diet on my lifting days , high carb on leg day. Any feedback appreciated.



Want easymode?

Eat this...

1.5 grams of protein per day x your body weight
0.5 grams of fat per day x your body weight
0.5 grams of carbs per day x your body weight

Get shredded.


----------



## Iron1 (Feb 18, 2015)

trodizzle said:


> Want easymode?
> 
> Eat this...
> 
> ...



Funny how some people argue this to no end.
The argument is per pound of *bodweight* vs per pound of *lean mass.*

1.5 grams protein x 250lbs bodyweight = 375g
.5g  carbs x 250lbs bodyweight = 125g
Cals from protein/carbs = 2000 cal

Add in an additional 125 g fats and that puts me at 3125 cals. I will not lose weight on that nor do I need almost 400 grams of protein.

OP, have you done your homework and figured out your TDEE?


----------



## Beedeezy (Feb 18, 2015)

Iron1 said:


> Funny how some people argue this to no end.
> The argument is per pound of *bodweight* vs per pound of *lean mass.*
> 
> 1.5 grams protein x 250lbs bodyweight = 375g
> ...



I usually do that calculation for the weight I'm trying to get to. 
I.e. 
1-1.5 grams of protein x how much I want to weight
And so on....
Not a prefect method but I am not trying to be perfect at 6-8% body fat. I've never even tried to get paper thin skin shredded before. 
I know there are better methods I just use that as a rough calculation to move towards my goal, everything is fluid after that. Add or subtract fat/carbs and go a couple more weeks and see how my body is responding than recalculate.


----------



## Rip (Feb 18, 2015)

colettiburger said:


> Hey guys, just wanted some input on my diet.  I currently am doing 4day split with a rest day followed by a cardio day.  Im thinking about doing ketosis on my 2 non lifting days.  Normal diet on my lifting days , high carb on leg day. Any feedback appreciated.



Chris Aceto 
Rotate carbs for fat loss
      Bodybuilders who rotate their carb intake tend to lose more fat than bodybuilders who maintain a steady flow of carbs while dieting. For example, instead of eating 600g of carbs every day (the typical daily total for a 200 pound bodybuilder), try varying the volume of intake. Eat 50% fewer carbs (300g) for two days, then the standard 600g for the next two days, then 50% more (900g) for the next two days, The total carb intake is the same, but this schedule works because it lowers muscle glycogen in the first stage (promoting fat loss), and then increases insulin levels (ensuring no loss of muscle) on the final two days. Carb rotation gives you the best of both worlds: decreased fat with no loss of muscle.


----------



## trodizzle (Feb 18, 2015)

Iron1 said:


> Funny how some people argue this to no end.
> The argument is per pound of *bodweight* vs per pound of *lean mass.*
> 
> 1.5 grams protein x 250lbs bodyweight = 375g
> ...



My suggestion is for bodyweight, not lean mass. It's simple to get him started (and it works).

Even at that calculation, you are in a deficit, albeit a small one, and that is before considering any exercise/lifting.

I'm at 2800 (or so) calories per day and losing weight (6'2", 230 lbs). Go figure. I'm consuming about 348 grams of protein per day.

Maybe you're eating the wrong stuff? Maybe all your carbs are shit carbs (high glycemic) and not good carbs (slow digesting, low glycemic). I know you've stated before that you don't seem to get clean eating but every person I talk to who uses a diet coach seems seems to understand that carb sources are important and not all carbs are created equal.

Who says you don't need that much protein? Try it and find out, it's only energy. It's much harder for your body to convert excess protein into fat anyways so why not stack that macro higher.


----------



## Iron1 (Feb 18, 2015)

trodizzle said:


> Even at that calculation, you are in a deficit, albeit a small one, and that is before considering any exercise/lifting.
> 
> I'm at 2800 (or so) calories per day and losing weight (6'2", 230 lbs). Go figure. I'm consuming about 348 grams of protein per day.
> 
> Who says you don't need that much protein? Try it and find out, it's only energy. It's much harder for your body to convert excess protein into fat anyways so why not stack that macro higher.



Without calculating TDEE how do you know? 

It's not that I don't understand the concept of clean eating withing the context of diet related *performance.* More-so, it's that nobody has been able to explain which combination of protein/fat/carbs constitutes a clean meal *for body composition purposes.*

Also, science says you don't need that much protein. Not anywhere NEAR that amount for athletic performance and lean body mass gains. I don't have time to point out all the various studies that support my position but here are a few excerpts:



			
				Sports Med. 1991 Nov;12(5):313-25. said:
			
		

> "For most of the current century, exercise/nutritional scientists have generally accepted the belief that exercise has little effect on protein/amino acid requirements. However, during the same time period many athletes (especially strength athletes) have routinely consumed diets high in protein. In recent years, the results of a number of investigations involving both strength and endurance athletes indicate that, in fact, exercise does increase protein/amino acid need. For endurance athletes, regular exercise may increase protein need by 50 to 100%. For strength athletes, the data are less clear; however, protein intakes in excess of sedentary needs may enhance muscle development. Despite these observations increased protein intake may not improve athletic performance because many athletes routinely consume 150 to 200% of sedentary protein requirements. Assuming total energy intake is sufficient to cover the high expenditures caused by daily training, a diet containing 12 to 15% of its energy from protein should be adequate for both types of athletes."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1763249

In this example, on a 3000 calorie diet, one would need between 90 and 113g per day.




			
				J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2007; 4: 8. said:
			
		

> "It is the position of the International Society of Sports Nutrition that exercising individuals need approximately 1.4 to 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. (This is .66-0.91 g per lb of body weight)  The amount is dependent upon the mode and intensity of the exercise, the quality of the protein ingested, and the status of the energy and carbohydrate intake of the individual. "


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2117006/

In this example, a 250lb man such as myself needs between 160g and 227g per day.
Again, nowhere near 400 grams of protein.

The drastic difference in protein requirements in the above examples are due to one being based off a specific calorie limit while the other is set by bodyweight.

In this game, protein *sufficiency* is key, protein excess is simply *waste*. Why not stack it higher? Simple, protein sources are typically one of the most expensive macros you consume. Carbs are typically the cheapest by comparison and if there is no difference in body composition, I choose to save money. One of the biggest, most ripped guys I know eats a pint of Ben&Jerry's every day. 

At the end of the day, if you want to eat a ton of protein, go for it. Just don't expect big protein consumption to equal big gains. The body can only repair muscle damage so fast even in enhanced athletes.

Sorry for derailing the thread OP.


----------



## colettiburger (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks for all the info everyone.


----------



## trodizzle (Feb 19, 2015)

Iron1 said:


> Without calculating TDEE how do you know?
> 
> It's not that I don't understand the concept of clean eating withing the context of diet related *performance.* More-so, it's that nobody has been able to explain which combination of protein/fat/carbs constitutes a clean meal *for body composition purposes.*
> 
> ...



The numbers work because you're using YOUR weight, not some arbitrary weight but the gram goals do stay the same. I was skeptical at first as well until I started to run the numbers for myself and others I know and I found no matter what, those figures kept them at a deficit. Wanted to get out of a deficit then up the carbs to 1g per lb of body weight or even up to 1.5 if you're not getting the results you need but the protein and fats stay the same.

The OP said he wanted to recomp, not get massive gains, the same goal as me and I don't expect massive muscle gains on a caloric deficit.

Cheap isn't my goal. McDonald's is always cheaper than a ribeye and protein can be used for more than just repairing muscle damage. I've never met a person who became diabetic off too much protein.

Protein is much better at keeping satiety in check compared to carbs I've found. Here's a reference as well.

Carbs turn to fat easier than protein and excess protein just isn't going to get converted to fat in the real world although on paper it seems as if it would. 

Many different ways to skin a cat. As you said in your original post, it's been argued to death and will continue to be argued. I'm just giving the guy something simple to start with, that has been proven to work for me and for many others.

In the end,  he can make his own choices, we're just sharing opinions.


----------



## TheBlob (Mar 11, 2015)

keto diet = dumb in my opinion


----------

