# First cycle need advice (Test E and Dbol)



## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

Age: 23
Exp: 3 years
Bf: 12-15%
Weight: 74kg
height: 5'8

Hey all so this is my cycle i am planning on using
- Week 1 to 12: Testosterone enanthate @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
- Week 1 to 4: Dbol 30mg a day, 15 at morning and 15 at night
- Week 1 to 12: hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
- Week 1 to 14: Arimidex @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)

Pct
Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20

I am aware i should only be using Test E only but i waited so long and want a good kickstart as my holidays are over soon. I have waited 8 months to start, and i am finally moving out to do my masters so it is a good way to celebrate. 

Many thanks


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## IronSoul (Jun 15, 2014)

siamakdieded said:


> Age: 23
> Exp: 3 years
> Bf: 12-15%
> Weight: 74kg
> ...



Many will say that you're still young to start and have plenty room left to grow naturally before AAS. I do agree with that but I got a young start as well right around the same age. And you sound like you've done your research a bit just from reading your lineup. I think that cycle will be great for you. It's arguable with the Dbol in it, but it's not a huge deal. You could be the guy running tren his first cycle lol! Have you used any PH/DS before this? I ran the same cycle minus the dbol my first go around and easily put on 22 pounds. But my training and diet were on point. 


Congrats on finishing your bachelors and going onto your masters bro. Huge accomplishment. What are you studying?


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

IronSoul said:


> Many will say that you're still young to start and have plenty room left to grow naturally before AAS. I do agree with that but I got a young start as well right around the same age. And you sound like you've done your research a bit just from reading your lineup. I think that cycle will be great for you. It's arguable with the Dbol in it, but it's not a huge deal. You could be the guy running tren his first cycle lol! Have you used any PH/DS before this? I ran the same cycle minus the dbol my first go around and easily put on 22 pounds. But my training and diet were on point.
> 
> 
> Congrats on finishing your bachelors and going onto your masters bro. Huge accomplishment. What are you studying?



I never done anything before. My training and diet has fixed up over the years, every year i say this but this is a long journey and you always learn something new every year. This year i found doing 4x a week was much more beneficial than 6x for me. I know what you mean about me being young,  it is a very controversial subject, some say 21/23/25/32, but i am at the age where there is not going to be much or any Test increase in the next few years, as long as i stay safe with cycling that will be most crucial part. I was studying civil engineering, moving to do subsea engineering and get work in the oil and gas industry. 

I am unsure about my AI, i have to admit this plan was for a test E only clybe, i added in the dbol without changing anything. From what i seen AI could be 0.5-1mg EoD, should i increase my AI due to the edition of Dbol? And the hCG is fine? I seen some say 1000 iu a week, honestly there is so many opinions out there it is driving me crazy :32 (14): but the person i got this from seems to know his stuff pretty well.


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## NbleSavage (Jun 15, 2014)

Going to spare you the "You're too young" lecture as it does appear you've thought out your plan fairly well. Plus at 23 yrs, you're a man and you'll make your own decisions. Best then to go in well-prepared and well-informed.

Your proposed HCG protocol is fine IME. No need for more than 500 IU weekly. Your PCT looks good too. I personally prefer stane to adex as an AI due to the potential 'rebound effect', but your protocol with the adex looks good also.

Get bloods done 3-4 weeks into your cycle if possible to ensure your E2 levels are healthy.

Overall looks good, Mate.  

Cheers, 

- Savage


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## DF (Jun 15, 2014)

Adex eod is a bit much.  I'd recommend starting .5mg e3d with the dbol & see how that goes.  Hcg 250iu 2x/week durning the cycle.


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## IronSoul (Jun 15, 2014)

NbleSavage said:


> Going to spare you the "You're too young" lecture as it does appear you've thought out your plan fairly well. Plus at 23 yrs, you're a man and you'll make your own decisions. Best then to go in well-prepared and well-informed.
> 
> Your proposed HCG protocol is fine IME. No need for more than 500 IU weekly. Your PCT looks good too. I personally prefer stane to adex as an AI due to the potential 'rebound effect', but your protocol with the adex looks good also.
> 
> ...





DF said:


> Adex eod is a bit much.  I'd recommend starting .5mg e3d with the dbol & see how that goes.  Hcg 250iu 2x/week durning the cycle.



Some great advice from these guys. I agree about the adex as well, sorry I missed that earlier. I'd start .5 e3d as well and see how that goes before upon dosage or frequency. Especially being your first go around so that you can get a feel for it and how it works with you. I haven't ever used stane for my AI but I've heard so many good brothers prefer it and talk good about it. 

On another note, I'm really glad to see you've put in so much thought and research into this cycle. As well as preparation time and waiting. I respect that very much, huge props to you. It's nice to see a guy come through with his head on his shoulders that has done his research, is worried about his health an safe cycling, and with an open mind to advice. This alone makes me think you'll do really well with your training and cycle. Best of luck brother


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

NbleSavage said:


> Going to spare you the "You're too young" lecture as it does appear you've thought out your plan fairly well. Plus at 23 yrs, you're a man and you'll make your own decisions. Best then to go in well-prepared and well-informed.
> 
> Your proposed HCG protocol is fine IME. No need for more than 500 IU weekly. Your PCT looks good too. I personally prefer stane to adex as an AI due to the potential 'rebound effect', but your protocol with the adex looks good also.
> 
> ...



So all i need to know is my E2 levels mid in the cycle? I am planning on getting a full female formal panel before and after, but was unsure what to go far mid cycle, as each one will cost around £200. If so i might get a cheaper test which primarily focuses on E2 levels if there is one available.


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

siamakdieded said:


> So all i need to know is my E2 levels mid in the cycle? I am planning on getting a full female formal panel before and after, but was unsure what to go far mid cycle, as each one will cost around £200. If so i might get a cheaper test which primarily focuses on E2 levels if there is one available.




Ignore this i found out i need to do the following "Lipids (standard full Set); Liver Panel (especial with hepatotoxic steroids); CBC & CMP; Renal ; Electrolytes, Mineral and Glucose."


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## NbleSavage (Jun 15, 2014)

siamakdieded said:


> So all i need to know is my E2 levels mid in the cycle? I am planning on getting a full female formal panel before and after, but was unsure what to go far mid cycle, as each one will cost around £200. If so i might get a cheaper test which primarily focuses on E2 levels if there is one available.



You need to know your E2 levels so you can adjust your AI dosing accordingly. Given this is your first run, you don't yet have a sense of how your body will react to the introduction of an exogenous aromatizing compound so you'll need to assess & adapt via bloodwork else you run the risk of letting your E2 get too high or too low. 

E2 is the trickiest game of all IME. Much trial & error required.


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

This is the blood work which i am planning on getting at each stage. Tell me if i missed out anything, or if some tests are repeating something (I am getting mutliple blood works done to test for different things.

Before and End of cycle
Full Blood Count. (Haematology profile) including over 10 parameters & ESR
Electrolytes
Kidney health information
A Full liver function test
Calcium
Uric acid
Glucose level
A full lipid panel including Total Cholesterol, HDL, LDL and triglycerides.
Iron status panel - Iron, TIBC and  transferrin saturation
Basic thyroid profile - TSH and FT4
FSH/LH/PROLACTIN/OESTRADIOL/TESTOSTERONE
Free testosterone


Mid cycle (4 weeks in)
Same as above but just take out the tests for testosterone


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## TriniJuice (Jun 15, 2014)

Where are you planning to get bloodwork done at, from your doc or a private facility


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

TriniJuice said:


> Where are you planning to get bloodwork done at, from your doc or a private facility



Private, from what i have read doctors don't test all the ones i have stated.


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## TriniJuice (Jun 15, 2014)

All you need to get is a "female hormone panel"
This may also be of use to you;
http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/12540-Understanding-Blood-Test-Results?highlight=blood+test


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

TriniJuice said:


> All you need to get is a "female hormone panel"
> This may also be of use to you;
> http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/12540-Understanding-Blood-Test-Results?highlight=blood+test



I was going by this not sure if i can reference other forums so i will just use quotation marks

"The Pre Cycle Tests- (baseline tests):

Hormones (steroids); Lipids (standard full Set); Full Liver Panel; CBC & CMP; Renal ; Electrolytes, Mineral and Glucose; Prostate

The On Cycle Tests :

Lipids (standard full Set); Liver Panel (especial with hepatotoxic steroids); CBC & CMP; Renal ; Electrolytes, Mineral and Glucose. This should be done 4 weeks into cycle

The Post Cycle Tests:

Hormones (steroids, LH/FSH); Lipids (Standard Full Set); Liver Panel (especial with hepatotoxic steroids); CBC & CMP; Electrolytes, Mineral and Glucose; Prostate. Must be a minimum of 6 weeks post cycle, 8 weeks is my rule of thumb
"

I think the tests i will be doing covers what he says, the one you linked me to explains what each name means. I am not being rude,but is the person i quoted mistaken? All i need to know is the FSH/LH/PROG/PROL?


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## TriniJuice (Jun 15, 2014)

You"ll go broke on blood work if you get everything done individually
This is what the female hormone panel contains;
http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/Female_Hormone_Testing.php
And this is how it looks (my pre-cycle bloods);
http://i.imgur.com/e2FieWh.png?3


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## TheLupinator (Jun 15, 2014)

What Trini said...


But if you want to see accurate test levels look for tests that are labeled "LC/MS-MS" otherwise your test levels will be capped at 1500


Also I don't think you're too young to run a cycle, but you said you have 3 years experience. What progress have you made in 3 years? How much progress have you made in the past year? Going to the gym for 3 years and busting your ass for 3 years is a big difference. Just make sure your not using gear to compensate for a lack of dedication and you will enjoy the results.


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

TriniJuice said:


> You"ll go broke on blood work if you get everything done individually
> This is what the female hormone panel contains;
> http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/Female_Hormone_Testing.php
> And this is how it looks (my pre-cycle bloods);
> http://i.imgur.com/e2FieWh.png?3



Yeh doing all the blood works will cost me about $1.2k per cycle, but when it comes to health i don't mind. Not to sound arrogant, but $1.2k is cheap if it means i can save my health from any dangers.


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## TriniJuice (Jun 15, 2014)

siamakdieded said:


> Yeh doing all the blood works will cost me about $1.2k per cycle, but when it comes to health i don't mind. Not to sound arrogant, but $1.2k is cheap if it means i can save my health from any dangers.



1.2k vs $62....for the same shxt, hmmm
Well as long as your still able to afford that private helicopter ride to and from the private lab you had installed on your personal island, go for it bro lol


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## siamakdieded (Jun 15, 2014)

TriniJuice said:


> 1.2k vs $62....for the same shxt, hmmm
> Well as long as your still able to afford that private helicopter ride to and from the private lab you had installed on your personal island, go for it bro lol




The one you do doesn't cover everything that guy said. It is best value for money, but still i will need to do additional tests. I don't really care about money, looking after my health has a greater financial yield than cutting my blood work costs (My parents are rich, and my future career pays well, no ebrag just saying).  I think what was asked in that post i quoted was a bit OTT, but if i get it done it will teach me how my body reacts to different substances, which will be invaluable in the future. I am in this for the long game, and planning to keep on going even if it means to go on TRT in the distant future.


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## Paolos (Jun 15, 2014)

Trini is right female panel...I use MD Lab tests sor Direct access labs and private MD labs. all are pretty close in price


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## woodswise (Jun 15, 2014)

Bro, nice first cycle.

I would add the AI when and as needed to control sides from estrogen (itchy or sore nipples) or when you are doing PCT.  

Also, look for the gains to slow after the first 4 to 8 weeks, which is when the water gains stop.  That doesn't mean the AAS is not working, it just means the water gains have slowed.  So long as you continue to gain 1 to 2 lbs per week after that you are good.


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## siamakdieded (Jun 16, 2014)

Thanks all, i was thinking about it and i am going to wait another year and half probably (25). I want to be in solid 12% region and still got room to develop no rush anyways, going to be doing this till i am old a grey


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