# Global warming



## stonetag (Mar 28, 2014)

Contrary to what some may think, our ever heating up planet is happening before our very eyes. I know some people think it's hype, natural cycles, or just plain bullshit. Hype=Corporations, some politicians, media. Natural causes= Historically these take literally thousands of years to happen, what we have here is happening in mere hundreds and working down to decades. Bullshit=Fuking idiots,JMHO

What is happening has been documented by shrinking glaciers, ocean currents and temperatures, animal and fish behaviors, and the list goes on. The top world scientists know this as fact, you think these folks sit around making up shit like this? They are seriously smart people, it's what they do, it's all they do! 

I guess most people alive right now really don't know and/or don't care about the crisis, but your children will, and God help their children! I don't want to sound like Donny Downer here, but I just wish mankind could see what he is causing, because there will be no hindsight in this situation.

It's a hard pill to swallow for me, how do you guys feel about it?


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## nightster (Mar 28, 2014)

ok,   I'll bite....You may want to change you topic to "climate change"..  That's the new term considering there seems to be evidence that the antarctic is at it's biggest point in years..  You mention corporations pushing it as hype, have you considered all the money to be made from the "carbon tax credits"....  Always follow the money... No ones hands are clean it this whole situation.. There are just as many people denying the theory as there are people supporting it.. It all depends on where you hear it and who you believe... People will believe whatever suits their agenda/ theory..


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## Yaya (Mar 28, 2014)

What the hell is global warming?


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## JAXNY (Mar 28, 2014)

Yaya said:


> What the hell is global warming?



It's from the massive amount of hot air coming  out of politicians. Causing the planet to warm. At least that's my theory.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 28, 2014)

nightster said:


> ok,   I'll bite....You may want to change you topic to "climate change"..  That's the new term considering there seems to be evidence that the antarctic is at it's biggest point in years..  You mention corporations pushing it as hype, have you considered all the money to be made from the "carbon tax credits"....  Always follow the money... No ones hands are clean it this whole situation.. There are just as many people denying the theory as there are people supporting it.. It all depends on where you hear it and who you believe... People will believe whatever suits their agenda/ theory..



Amen......


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 28, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> It's from the massive amount of hot air coming  out of politicians. Causing the planet to warm. At least that's my theory.



Out of their mouths, asses, or both lol?


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 28, 2014)

nightster said:


> ok,   I'll bite....You may want to change you topic to "climate change"..  That's the new term considering there seems to be evidence that the antarctic is at it's biggest point in years..  You mention corporations pushing it as hype, have you considered all the money to be made from the "carbon tax credits"....  Always follow the money... No ones hands are clean it this whole situation.. There are just as many people denying the theory as there are people supporting it.. It all depends on where you hear it and who you believe... People will believe whatever suits their agenda/ theory..



You are right about the carbon tax credits and the money.  The money is on both sides though - Monsanto, Exxon/Mobil, Conagra etc... However that doesn't erase the fact that our ocean temperatures are changing.  Forget about antarctica. Put it into terms we are more familiar with. Here is an example where I am from.

In MA, oysters are a huge business here.  Our oysters fetch some of the highest prices of any.  What will destroy that industry and the families who live off of it are bed closures.  We don't see Vibrio Parahaemolyticus in Massachusetts waters because our ocean temps were too low.  A temperature of 64F is required for that organism to thrive.  Starting over the last few years, we have started experiencing bed closures during the summer months. This has never happened before.  Families are suffering from this.

One of the biggest problems in dealing with this issue is the level of rhetoric surrounding it.  The self appointed spokes people that are attempting to raise awareness of global warming are celebutards who don't know wtf they are talking about.  They also engage in hypocritical behavior and organize individuals into particular groups such as "deniers." 

Put aside the labels like global warming or climate change.  Instead try looking at things like this - Humanity and nature are not two separate and distinct things.  We are one with nature.  We are one tiny little fraction of it yet have the most significant impact on it.  Consider what this Country looked like at its founding versus today. We expanded west, we built massive agricultural operations, we shaped the land to suit us. We built canals and rails.  We mined for resources like coal, oil and gold.  And our population continued to grow.  This was progress!  But was it really? How can we call the complete and utter destruction of this incredible land progress? Because we created more humans? Is that progress? Because we make machines and automate things? Is that progress? What is progress? I think we have consistently made steps backwards.  And then we continue to repeat our mistakes. Doubling down on what hasn't worked for us in the past.  

Doubt it? Ok. Here is some homework.  Read works by Henry David Thoreau and come to understand transcendentalism.  Then when you've done that, read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.  Then read all you can find about the dust bowl.  The dust bowl in particular is interesting.  You'll read about how the thin topsoils of the great plains were literally blown away on an April day leaving hundreds of thousands destitute and starving.  We improved irrigation in this area though to keep the soil from drying out.  Only problem is, we are running out of that water... This will happen again.

Its an interesting topic. The cause and effects of these things are so profound that the discussion surrounding it is always fascinating.  But like I mentioned above - transcendentalism. People are camped out on one side or the other and are therefore corrupt.  One must try to see the merits of both sides. We need policy to reduce pollution over all.  But we need to be able to do it without driving everyone into poverty.


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## Bro Bundy (Mar 28, 2014)

fuk tipper gore


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## JAXNY (Mar 28, 2014)

Honestly I believe our planet is just going through its normal cycles. Although im all for reducing pollution, preserving the planet etc. What I don't like are these environmentalists crying critical mass and cramming all of these regulations and restrictions on us prematurely. 
When we develope the technology for alternative energy sources and can put them in place then that's when it should happen. Taxing the F..ck out of us, preventing the creation of jobs( keystroke pipe line) making life tough on us and energy dependant on other countries especially ones that don't like us. Is ridiculous. The world is not going to burn up in the next 50 or even 100 years. Technology will advance things will get better for the planet. In the mean time, there is no need for all of this over regulating and restricting of Americans to having work and living lives without all of these environmental burdens that are being imposed so prematurely.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 28, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> You are right about the carbon tax credits and the money.  The money is on both sides though - Monsanto, Exxon/Mobil, Conagra etc... However that doesn't erase the fact that our ocean temperatures are changing.  Forget about antarctica. Put it into terms we are more familiar with. Here is an example where I am from.
> 
> In MA, oysters are a huge business here.  Our oysters fetch some of the highest prices of any.  What will destroy that industry and the families who live off of it are bed closures.  We don't see Vibrio Parahaemolyticus in Massachusetts waters because our ocean temps were too low.  A temperature of 64F is required for that organism to thrive.  Starting over the last few years, we have started experiencing bed closures during the summer months. This has never happened before.  Families are suffering from this.
> 
> ...



Have you by any chance read any works by. Daniel Quinn? Of particular interest to you I think would be Ishmael, My Ishmael, The Story of B, and Beyomd Civilization.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 28, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Have you by any chance read any works by. Daniel Quinn? Of particular interest to you I think would be Ishmael, My Ishmael, The Story of B, and Beyomd Civilization.



With school in swing my recreational reading is non-existent. Which is OK because I still get my intellectual exercise from the readings and banging out paper after paper.  I'll check that out.


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## widehips71 (Mar 28, 2014)

Ooh boy.  My focus in Biology was Environmental Science and I can tell you they drilled this topic to death.  It's quite a bit more complicated than one might believe.  I'll try to make this simple, short, and not give anyone a headache with a bunch of technical jargon.  

We can effectively chronicle global climate shifts as far back as 800,000 years using core samples drilled in Greenland and Antarctica.  These shifts DO happen naturally.  The question becomes, are we increasing the rate at which it's happening?  Measuring the concentration of an isotope (nitrogen 15) in these core samples, we are able to determine that the increase in CO2 levels lagged global temperature increases by almost 200 years.  So if CO2 levels increased after the earth warmed considerably in the past, then we're not responsible?  Right hips?  Not necessarily.  We know that the two are intimately tied together.  In the past, our oceans were able to absorb massive amounts of naturally occurring CO2.  They can not, however, keep up with how much we are dumping it into the atmosphere and their rate of absorption is dependent on their temperature and salinity concentrations.  They ARE absorbing less and less and we have science to back that up.  http://news.yale.edu/2009/11/24/oceans-absorbing-carbon-dioxide-more-slowly-yale-scientist-finds
Combine this with massive global deforestation and we have thrown our planet into a state that is no longer homeostatic.  

As far as the Antarctic being as big as it's ever been, that's not entirely true.  We measure sea ice based on it's extent, or areal coverage, which does not take into account ice depth.  http://phys.org/news/2013-10-antarctic-sea-ice.html

So anyway, you can see how politicians that are proponents of fossil fuel industries like to take the facts and bend them to suit their needs by saying, "Well the Antarctic is bigger than ever" or "CO2 only increases after the planet warms" as if it has nothing to do with what we're doing.  And of course regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, there is always money to be made and politicians will chase it to the end of the earth. <--- see what I did there


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## widehips71 (Mar 28, 2014)

Oh and let me add, I'm not a doom and gloom hippie, I'm just saying the science is real, and yes it's really happening.  Is the world going to end in the next ten years?  No.  But history has shown us over and over again that usually only disasters of monumental proportion force positive change.  Take the Cuyahoga River fire of 1969 that propelled the EPA and Clean Water Act into existence for example.  

So it will always get worse before it gets better.  Then it gets worse again, and a little better again.


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## Assassin32 (Mar 28, 2014)

I do know that climate changes are affecting the waterfowl population in the US directly. The Prarie Pothole Region is one of the most abundant waterfowl breeding areas in the US/Canada. Due to rising temperatures and less rainfall the duck population in the US could drop by up to 65 percent in coming years. Ducks have recently begun to change their migration patterns for the first known time in the 4 major flyway zones in the US/Canada. I know the National Wildlife Federation is extremely concerned, which in turn, concerns me, being that I am an avid outdoorsmen and hunter.


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## Yaya (Mar 28, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> fuk tipper gore


Couldn't of said it better


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## graniteman (Mar 28, 2014)

nI call it global whining cause the politicians dont even call it ''Global Warm,ing'' anymore. It's ''Climate Change now..if it's hot...CLIMATE CHANGE...IF ITS COLD...CLIMATE CHANGE!!

Most of you guys are too young but it when I was a younger guy these same hippies were crying ''The Ice Age'' is coming!!!  We''ll be long gone before we can affect the Earth's climate


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## graniteman (Mar 28, 2014)

widehips71 said:


> Ooh boy.  My focus in Biology was Environmental Science and I can tell you they drilled this topic to death.  It's quite a bit more complicated than one might believe.  I'll try to make this simple, short, and not give anyone a headache with a bunch of technical jargon.
> 
> We can effectively chronicle global climate shifts as far back as 800,000 years using core samples drilled in Greenland and Antarctica.  These shifts DO happen naturally.  The question becomes, are we increasing the rate at which it's happening?  Measuring the concentration of an isotope (nitrogen 15) in these core samples, we are able to determine that the increase in CO2 levels lagged global temperature increases by almost 200 years.  So if CO2 levels increased after the earth warmed considerably in the past, then we're not responsible?  Right hips?  Not necessarily.  We know that the two are intimately tied together.  In the past, our oceans were able to absorb massive amounts of naturally occurring CO2.  They can not, however, keep up with how much we are dumping it into the atmosphere and their rate of absorption is dependent on their temperature and salinity concentrations.  They ARE absorbing less and less and we have science to back that up.  http://news.yale.edu/2009/11/24/oceans-absorbing-carbon-dioxide-more-slowly-yale-scientist-finds
> Combine this with massive global deforestation and we have thrown our planet into a state that is no longer homeostatic.
> ...



How would you explain the end of the Ice Age ..the one were the entire Earths crust was covered with ice? Another question would be why did Antartica  turn from a lush green jungle like area to being covered in ice?  I call it Nature

''Scientists'' are no better than the oil proponents you say ''bend to their needs''.. Follow the money I always say..These ''scientists'' you rely on receive 100% of their salary, money and funding from Gov't grants if not the govt itself and donations \ grants from Universities\Liberal Groups


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## widehips71 (Mar 28, 2014)

graniteman said:


> nI call it global whining cause the politicians dont even call it ''Global Warm,ing'' anymore. It's ''Climate Change now..if it's hot...CLIMATE CHANGE...IF ITS COLD...CLIMATE CHANGE!!
> 
> Most of you guys are too young but it when I was a younger guy these same hippies were crying ''The Ice Age'' is coming!!!  We''ll be long gone before we can affect the Earth's climate





graniteman said:


> How would you explain the end of the Ice Age ..the one were the entire Earths crust was covered with ice? Another question would be why did Antartica  turn from a lush green jungle like area to being covered in ice?  I call it Nature



How would you explain our affecting something after we're extinct?  

Sorry GMan, I won't get into mind numbing technical aspects of how this stuff works.  I studied this inside and out for several years.  Some ppl have their minds made up regardless of what data shows so I won't get into pointless back and forths over it.


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## Yaya (Mar 28, 2014)

Sometimes I don't know why all u assholes write these 4 paragraph explanations for ur political views...

I believe in science and history and the bible..... Over the last thousand and millions of years the earth has changed.. The climate has changed from hot to cold and from cold to hot.

I honestly believe that global warming is just a tool used for political reasons and after this winter in New England I believe in the evidence of global warming even less..

I know everyone has there point of view but we have had ice ages...floods...Powerful earth quakes...volcanic eruptions and so on for thousands of years..

The world is fukked...



Now stop arguing and get along


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## widehips71 (Mar 28, 2014)

graniteman said:


> How would you explain the end of the Ice Age ..the one were the entire Earths crust was covered with ice? Another question would be why did Antartica  turn from a lush green jungle like area to being covered in ice?  I call it Nature
> 
> ''Scientists'' are no better than the oil proponents you say ''bend to their needs''.. Follow the money I always say..These ''scientists'' you rely on receive 100% of their salary, money and funding from Gov't grants if not the govt itself and donations \ grants from Universities\Liberal Groups



Ok I'll bite.  You keep saying scientists in quotation marks as if they're not really scientists lol.  These men are 50x smarter than you or I put together.  And you're assertion that they rely on 100% of their salary from the govt is completely unfounded and baseless.  Also, University studies have little to gain from creating mass hysteria or falsifying data.  As far as the Ice Age goes, you're welcome to read one of a dozen scientific articles that I could.

I'm not saying we know EVERYTHING.  I'm saying we understand a lot more than you give us credit for.  Data changes continuously with ongoing research.  Be open minded...That's how we make the world a better place


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## Big Worm (Mar 28, 2014)

Well just call me a ****ing idiot because I think it's a bunch of bull shit. Sure the earth is changing. It's ever evolving just like us.  I've got a couple thousand trees around my house if any of you pussies need one to hug.


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## widehips71 (Mar 28, 2014)

Big Worm said:


> Well just call me a ****ing idiot because I think it's a bunch of bull shit. Sure the earth is changing. It's ever evolving just like us.  I've got a couple thousand trees around my house if any of you pussies need one to hug.



If I throw a couple flowers in your hair can I just hug you??


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## Big Worm (Mar 28, 2014)

widehips71 said:


> If I throw a couple flowers in your hair can I just hug you??



waste hug.....


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## nightster (Mar 28, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozO4YB98mCY      I love this speech..


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## RedLang (Mar 28, 2014)

I most certainly believe we are negatively contributing to the CO2 release. And unfortunately, like most disaster situations,  someone is trying to extract a profit.

It won't be us that has to deal with it either, It will be our children and grandchildren.

With all of the bullshit that's shown from both extremist sides of the argument it makes it difficult for people to access or even discern between what is true and what is not.

It is a good example of the normalcy bias


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## stonetag (Mar 28, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> Honestly I believe our planet is just going through its normal cycles. Although im all for reducing pollution, preserving the planet etc. What I don't like are these environmentalists crying critical mass and cramming all of these regulations and restrictions on us prematurely.
> When we develope the technology for alternative energy sources and can put them in place then that's when it should happen. Taxing the F..ck out of us, preventing the creation of jobs( keystroke pipe line) making life tough on us and energy dependant on other countries especially ones that don't like us. Is ridiculous. The world is not going to burn up in the next 50 or even 100 years. Technology will advance things will get better for the planet. In the mean time, there is no need for all of this over regulating and restricting of Americans to having work and living lives without all of these environmental burdens that are being imposed so prematurely.


When does it stop being premature and turn into a nonreversible crisis?


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## stonetag (Mar 28, 2014)

graniteman said:


> How would you explain the end of the Ice Age ..the one were the entire Earths crust was covered with ice? Another question would be why did Antartica  turn from a lush green jungle like area to being covered in ice?  I call it Nature
> 
> ''Scientists'' are no better than the oil proponents you say ''bend to their needs''.. Follow the money I always say..These ''scientists'' you rely on receive 100% of their salary, money and funding from Gov't grants if not the govt itself and donations \ grants from Universities\Liberal Groups


Antarctica, lush green jungle? that's called continental drift. The scientist's I mention are just that, Scientist's, there is no monetary gain for them by being bias to a certain groups agenda, they are just passionate about there job. I wouldn't say there wasn't a scientist out there with money as a prime motivator, that would be completely ridiculous.


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## bronco (Mar 28, 2014)

Man made global warming? Or climate change? Which one is it? All a bunch of political bull shit


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## BigGameHunter (Mar 28, 2014)

widehips71 said:


> Ok I'll bite.  You keep saying scientists in quotation marks as if they're not really scientists lol.  These men are 50x smarter than you or I put together.  And you're assertion that they rely on 100% of their salary from the govt is completely unfounded and baseless.  Also, University studies have little to gain from creating mass hysteria or falsifying data.  As far as the Ice Age goes, you're welcome to read one of a dozen scientific articles that I could link you too
> 
> I'm not saying we know EVERYTHING.  I'm saying we understand a lot more than you give us credit for.  Data changes continuously with ongoing research.  Be open minded...That's how we make the world a better place



I'm not biting back, but I do have a question Ive always wanted to ask and based on your reply,  you sound like you know a thing or two about this.  Who pays these Scientists if not completely funded by the government?  Do you have a percentage break down?  Say govt pays x% and ________pays ___%?   Lets just keep it on the climate change Scientists studies since that's what were talking about.

I think a lot of people myself included, trust science and research but often who funds it could play a factor in the out come and the final report.


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## AlphaD (Mar 28, 2014)

Do I believe we change the landslide, and negatively effect the atmospheric climate of our world, meh maybe we do.  Just like Yaya said above, I believe in science, history and the bible.  We can't stop what is going to happen to the climate in our world, just as much as they couldn't stop an ice age.  I don't trust any politically motivated scientist just like I don't trust any government backed doctor study.  This has proven more to be an agenda, then anecdotal evidence. The world will continue to evolve, we must evolve with it. That is what humankind does to survive.  Do I feel bad about individuals entire careers and or family businesses being effected by "Climate Change", of course I do.  Just like I feel bad by workers replaced by technology and automation.  Discover the truth on your own.  Not what someone wants you to believe as they are propagandizing a Polar Bear floating away on a small piece of ice. Just my 2 cents.....been wrong before.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 28, 2014)

AlphaD said:


> Do I believe we change the landslide, and negatively effect the atmospheric climate of our world, meh maybe we do.  Just like Yaya said above, I believe in science, history and the bible.  We can't stop what is going to happen to the climate in our world, just as much as they couldn't stop an ice age.  I don't trust any politically motivated scientist just like I don't trust any government backed doctor study.  This has proven more to be an agenda, then anecdotal evidence. The world will continue to evolve, we must evolve with it. That is what humankind does to survive.  Do I feel bad about individuals entire careers and or family businesses being effected by "Climate Change", of course I do.  Just like I feel bad by workers replaced by technology and automation.  Discover the truth on your own.  Not what someone wants you to believe as they are propagandizing a Polar Bear floating away on a small piece of ice. Just my 2 cents.....been wrong before.



I tried making this point already. I'll try it again. The polar bear thing is just lame.  They aren't explaining very well the REAL consequences we are seeing TODAY. Mosquito borne illnesses, droughts, water supplies destroyed, whole parcels of land rendered unusable....


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## widehips71 (Mar 28, 2014)

BigGameHunter said:


> I'm not biting back, but I do have a question Ive always wanted to ask and based on your reply,  you sound like you know a thing or two about this.  Who pays these Scientists if not completely funded by the government?  Do you have a percentage break down?  Say govt pays x% and ________pays ___%?   Lets just keep it on the climate change Scientists studies since that's what were talking about.
> 
> I think a lot of people myself included, trust science and research but often who funds it could play a factor in the out come and the final report.



Good question BigGame, but it's a tough one to answer.  A lot, not all, but a lot of studies are funded by Universities.  We can split hairs over who funds the Universities because it's a mish mash of private donors, govt grants, and student tuition.  Exact percentages are above my pay grade so to speak.  But it's a little bit of a conspiratorial overstatement to believe or say that they/we are completely influenced by politics.  Again, we have little to gain from fabricating research on such a large scale.  Say we conclude that climate change is absolutely of no concern to the human race and our long term well being.  Still with me?  Ok, then we just move on to the next research project.  There will always be something to study and there will always be money available for it.  I've worked directly with the St. Johns River Management District conducting studies on the various point source and nonpoint source pollution that affects water quality in our area, and how it's affecting aspects from human health to wildlife health.  We were state funded.  Did that somehow slant our studies to benefit the state?  Absolutely not.  The state had nothing to gain from this.  Did paper mills that dump metric tons of dioxin and chlorophenol pollution into the river try to pay us off to falsify data?  Of course not.  There's no conspiracy.  Guys, we do what we do to protect peoples health and help prevent the extinction of species.  I love to fish.  Well guess what?  There are creeks that you can't eat the fish out of because of the bioaccumulation of polyaromatic hydrocarbons that have built up over decades of pollution.  There's no natural reasoning behind this.  It's a MAN made problem.

Look I get that some people want to bury their head in the sand and pretend like what we do doesn't affect our environment.  Like the world is just too big or too old to be damaged by us.  And for those that live in the city it's a lot easier to ignore problems like this...even the air pollution that you breath in on a daily basis.  But I think the outdoorsmen here are more in tune with this and understand that the environment is changing and not always in a natural way that can be explained in the sense that, "Well, these things just happen."  Some things do just happen.  Like we've all pointed out, the climate has changed drastically throughout Earths history and it always will.  It's a giant pendulum.  But we still have the ability to affect things, whether positively or negatively.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm on a rant so sorry if it comes across that way, but I'm well versed in these topics and could ramble on for days.  And I'm not an extremist or "believer" of any environmental conspiracy, just a guy that pays attention


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## JAXNY (Mar 28, 2014)

stonetag said:


> When does it stop being premature and turn into a nonreversible crisis?



I knew that one was coming stone. It wouldn't be premature if we were near or at a critical stage. And we are far from that. We are much closer to the technological advancements towards alternative fuels than the earth burning up or all of us suffocating.  
We are already converting automobiles from gas to electric, natural gas and hydrogen. We don't have solor energy down enough yet. Etc. But we are Damn near. So why all of the heavy regulations making life a burden. Why??   POWER, MONEY...IDEOLOGY.  nothing other than that.. ....The planet is not even close to a crisis. A crisis might be maybe a 1,000 year's away. 
The technological advances we need are 10-50 years away.


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## JonTheAtheist (Mar 28, 2014)

Never trust someone's opinion on something they know so little about. A politician wants to get up on his/her soap box and preach this and that about all these things that's happening in our world. Well, consider the source. 

Yes, I will not doubt that things are happening to our planet- is the human race making things happen faster or changing things more rapidly? Who's to really say. We've only been on this planet (according to Sarah Palin) for 6,000 years. See what I mean? Consider the source of where you're getting your information from.


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## JonTheAtheist (Mar 28, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> We are already converting automobiles from gas to electric, natural gas and hydrogen. .




This would of came a lot sooner if rich oil tycoons weren't getting so filthy rich off of oil. The more electric "hybrid" cars that are purchased the less those guys make. They're slowing converting as more fracking goes on to secure their millions of dollars in resource industry.


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## Assassin32 (Mar 28, 2014)

JonTheAtheist said:


> Never trust someone's opinion on something they know so little about. A politician wants to get up on his/her soap box and preach this and that about all these things that's happening in our world. Well, consider the source.
> 
> Yes, I will not doubt that things are happening to our planet- is the human race making things happen faster or changing things more rapidly? Who's to really say. We've only been on this planet (according to Sarah Palin) for 6,000 years. See what I mean? Consider the source of where you're getting your information from.



Love the name dude! Someone told that the bible says the earth is only 6000 years old. I have never opened a bible, so I don't know if that is accurate or not. But, I am guessing, that is where she got that from.


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## NbleSavage (Mar 28, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> fuk tipper gore



She HAS aged well...just sayin'...


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## NbleSavage (Mar 28, 2014)

I'd warm her globes...


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## JAXNY (Mar 28, 2014)

JonTheAtheist said:


> This would of came a lot sooner if rich oil tycoons weren't getting so filthy rich off of oil. The more electric "hybrid" cars that are purchased the less those guys make. They're slowing converting as more fracking goes on to secure their millions of dollars in resource industry.


That's partially true Jon. There are many other needs for oil other than gasoline. We need oil mostly for machinery, cooling and lubrication. Without it the world would come to a halt. This is my point. We are not advanced enough "yet" to do with out it. 
Think a little drilling for oil is bad for the environment.  
Every automobile on the road combined is much more damaging. If we are at such an environmental critical mass then let's get every automobile off of the road tomorrow and let's see where that gets us. 
You can't halt drilling and put all of these other restrictions in place yet because we don't have the means to replace them.. ....I'm done with this thread it's pointless and can go on for ever. No one can make sense to the other side.


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## Malevolence (Mar 28, 2014)




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## BigGameHunter (Mar 28, 2014)

widehips71 said:


> Good question BigGame, but it's a tough one to answer.  A lot, not all, but a lot of studies are funded by Universities.  We can split hairs over who funds the Universities because it's a mish mash of private donors, govt grants, and student tuition.  Exact percentages are above my pay grade so to speak.  But it's a little bit of a conspiratorial overstatement to believe or say that they/we are completely influenced by politics.  Again, we have little to gain from fabricating research on such a large scale.  Say we conclude that climate change is absolutely of no concern to the human race and our long term well being.  Still with me?  Ok, then we just move on to the next research project.  There will always be something to study and there will always be money available for it.  I've worked directly with the St. Johns River Management District conducting studies on the various point source and nonpoint source pollution that affects water quality in our area, and how it's affecting aspects from human health to wildlife health.  We were state funded.  Did that somehow slant our studies to benefit the state?  Absolutely not.  The state had nothing to gain from this.  Did paper mills that dump metric tons of dioxin and chlorophenol pollution into the river try to pay us off to falsify data?  Of course not.  There's no conspiracy.  Guys, we do what we do to protect peoples health and help prevent the extinction of species.  I love to fish.  Well guess what?  There are creeks that you can't eat the fish out of because of the bioaccumulation of polyaromatic hydrocarbons that have built up over decades of pollution.  There's no natural reasoning behind this.  It's a MAN made problem.
> 
> Look I get that some people want to bury their head in the sand and pretend like what we do doesn't affect our environment.  Like the world is just too big or too old to be damaged by us.  And for those that live in the city it's a lot easier to ignore problems like this...even the air pollution that you breath in on a daily basis.  But I think the outdoorsmen here are more in tune with this and understand that the environment is changing and not always in a natural way that can be explained in the sense that, "Well, these things just happen."  Some things do just happen.  Like we've all pointed out, the climate has changed drastically throughout Earths history and it always will.  It's a giant pendulum.  But we still have the ability to affect things, whether positively or negatively.
> 
> I'm not trying to sound like I'm on a rant so sorry if it comes across that way, but I'm well versed in these topics and could ramble on for days.  And I'm not an extremist or "believer" of any environmental conspiracy, just a guy that pays attention



Thank you for sharing, I sounds like your in a pretty good position to explain to us regular folks just what happens behind the doors of theses studies and keep doing it (explaining).  I certainly would never say that all scientists are completely infuenced by politics but it is naive for anyone, even a scientist to think that it could not be or hasnt been. I think the forum we are members of is evidence of that.

What about the scientist that have worked just as hard on global warming and found it to be unfounded?  Are they wrong?  Should they be ignored?

Id like to see as much research going into fixing the problems you guys find instead of jumping on the next money making tax hike to place on the back of the working man.  Its just hard to believe that taxing the hell out of us is the only solution.  I also understand that is not in your hands.


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## Yaya (Mar 28, 2014)

NbleSavage said:


> I'd warm her globes...



She looks like a young nick nolte


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## widehips71 (Mar 28, 2014)

BigGameHunter said:


> Thank you for sharing, I sounds like your in a pretty good position to explain to us regular folks just what happens behind the doors of theses studies and keep doing it (explaining).  I certainly would never say that all scientists are completely infuenced by politics but it is naive for anyone, even a scientist to think that it could not be or hasnt been. I think the forum we are members of is evidence of that.
> 
> What about the scientist that have worked just as hard on global warming and found it to be unfounded?  Are they wrong?  Should they be ignored?
> 
> Id like to see as much research going into fixing the problems you guys find instead of jumping on the next money making tax hike to place on the back of the working man.  Its just hard to believe that taxing the hell out of us is the only solution.  I also understand that is not in your hands.



Actually, thank you for asking.  And thank everyone that has participated in a post such as this.  I don't think it's as important to be right or wrong, but just opening up to discussion is essential to progress.  After all, when our founding fathers created this nation they didn't do it with an iron fist, they sat together in pubs and debated topics that were literally illegal to talk about.  Then we won a war in a fight for independence against a country that wanted to tax us.  Now our country taxes us to death.  Talk about irony!


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## BigGameHunter (Mar 28, 2014)

If our founding fathers knew what I was doing right now Id have hot tar and feathers all over.


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## stonetag (Mar 28, 2014)

Well how about that can of worms? Only a couple things to add. I believe in the sciences, all sciences! I practice it everyday in my job. I see things that shouldn't be happening in a normal functioning environment, we all could argue this into the ground and back again. The key is to make everyone aware, whether the individual agrees or not. This quote nails it for me"A  knowledgeable, and courageous US president could help enormously in leading the worlds nations toward saving the climate" Where are the Teddy Roosevelts when you need one!


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## BigGameHunter (Mar 29, 2014)

stonetag said:


> Well how about that can of worms? Only a couple things to add. I believe in the sciences, all sciences! I practice it everyday in my job. I see things that shouldn't be happening in a normal functioning environment, we all could argue this into the ground and back again. The key is to make everyone aware, whether the individual agrees or not. This quote nails it for me"A  knowledgeable, and courageous US president could help enormously in leading the worlds nations toward saving the climate" Where are the Teddy Roosevelts when you need one!



Hes probably dead either in the Korean or Vietnam war.  Instead we got the Bushes and Clintons.


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