# PCT help



## Bust My Ass

What would you guys recommend for a long time user?  I'm currently on 25mg clomid per day. 9 weeks since my last injection and no libido whatsoever.  Should I do the standard protocol or a more aggressive one?

Should I add in Nolvadex? If so, how much and for what duration?

Thanks.


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## PillarofBalance

So you been on clOmid how long?


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## thqmas

What do you mean by 'a long time user'?
What do you mean 'no libido whatsoever'? Nothing?


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## SHRUGS

PillarofBalance said:


> So you been on clOmid how long?



That was my question too. Have u been on clomid for 2 months or? And did u taper down or something on the clomid to 25mgs or did u start with 25mgs at first? I myself would get bloods done before anymore time goes by and then consider a Nolva Clom combo at "standard" dosage. Im just not sure if Id start the combo immediately before my bloods came back or if Id just use some cialis/viagra until bloods arrived.
!SHRUGS!


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## ToolSteel

nevermind. 

Merry Christmas.


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## Bust My Ass

thqmas said:


> What do you mean by 'a long time user'?
> What do you mean 'no libido whatsoever'? Nothing?


Long time user as in 7 years on without breaks.  Up to 5 grams of gear per week plus HGH and insulin.
And yeah, no libido at all.  Soft erections and unable to climax.  Test levels just came in at 350ng/dl


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## DocDePanda187123

Weren't you the one recommending ppl to stay on/cruise year round before?

How lomg after the last injection was the 350ng/dL result? Were you on anything, like clomid in your OP, when this result came back?


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## Pinkbear

Bust My Ass said:


> Long time user as in 7 years on without breaks.  Up to 5 grams of gear per week plus HGH and insulin.
> And yeah, no libido at all.  Soft erections and unable to climax.  Test levels just came in at 350ng/dl



7 ****ing years no break?!?!
And 5 grams a week?
****ing Crist.......
Consider your natty test gone.
You're not gunna ever recover from that


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## thqmas

ToolSteel said:


> nevermind.
> 
> Merry Christmas.



I liked better your previous reply TS.


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## thqmas

Bust My Ass said:


> Long time user as in 7 years on without breaks.  Up to 5 grams of gear per week plus HGH and insulin.
> And yeah, no libido at all.  Soft erections and unable to climax.  Test levels just came in at 350ng/dl



Sorry man, you're fuked.

IMHO, You have to make a decision and stick to it -No Zig zaging!- 
Or 1. You stop everything and seek medical help, and maybe after a long, long, long time, you may recover enough to feel better (you need to be a real tough mtf to succeed in that). 
Or 2. you continue cruising (if that's how you call the stupid shit you were doing this past 7 years) but like a fuking human being, that means at 175-250mg a week (yes, you can "go wild" and cruise on 500 - what can you lose?).

But as I said: NO ZIG ZAGING! you stick to one of the two - till the end. (I advise option 1, and if it does not work -and I mean 4-5 years- only then option 2).

Btw, I was more than once in a state that my test levels were ridiculously low. Never stopped me from banging my wife or get a good erection. What I mean is that with the abuse you described, low libido and low test needs to be the least of your problems/worries/concern.

You may fuked way more things than you think.

You didn't cross to the dark side, you're ****ing Darth Vader dude.


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## SuperBane

You guys have to understand before you talk shit to this guy.
He is from gh15 that's what that carpet cleaner teaches everyone whom happens upon that board.
They do it in a cult like fashion, even the guys with knowledge whom know better go along with it.

I'm just saying I don't think it is cool to flame a guy who perhaps didn't know any better because he wasn't taught any better. 
Yes sure there are a lot of boards out there ... A lot of better boards.
Yet none are as popular or as easy to hear about as that board.
Then once you see all the guys logging there blasts and shit giving real world feedback... A lot of naive kids would take that as gospel.

The only reason you teach 18 year olds whom aren't going to compete or don't have the tools to compete to blast and cruise is for the $$$

Anyways just my .02

Maybe try cashouts or dr. Sally's restart protocol I forget whom of the two wrote it.
I would begin there. Or see the doc and jump thru the trt hoops


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## Rumpy

Sorry dude but you're fuked.  TRT is probably your only option, but you could try Cashout's exit strategy

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3266-Cashout-s-HRT-Exit-Strategy


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## Bust My Ass

Lol I'm not with scam15 anymore.  I got banned a couple months ago without explanation.  Probably because I kept saying how so many guys there run way too much gear and don't look the part.  God forbid they listen and buy less gear from the wizard sources    To answer the other question:

I started the clomid the day I got my blood results back.  I wasn't on anything when I had the blood drawn.  I should have gotten estradiol checked too because yesterday I noticed my nipples were sore.  As of this morning I am now on 50mg clomid.  I also threw in 100mg of 7-keto dhea.


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## ToolSteel

Bust My Ass said:


> Lol I'm not with scam15 anymore.  I got banned a couple months ago without explanation.  Probably because I kept saying how so many guys there run way too much gear and don't look the part.  God forbid they listen and buy less gear from the wizard sources    To answer the other question:
> 
> I started the clomid the day I got my blood results back.  I wasn't on anything when I had the blood drawn.  I should have gotten estradiol checked too because yesterday I noticed my nipples were sore.  As of this morning I am now on 50mg clomid.  I also threw in 100mg of 7-keto dhea.


What is your goal from here on out? Are you trying to stay off for good? Switch to cycling? Trying to get some swimmers up to have kids?


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## LeanHerm

Imo if you're a long time user, how in the flying fuk dint you know how to properly pct? I'm not trying to be rude but what the hell. You probably have no libido because you won't recover properly because you've been a long time user and have no idea how to pct. Def not something a long time user wouldn't know.


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## John Ziegler

You must be a walking giant after running a seven year cycle up to 5 grams a week. Any way we can get a photo of you naked holding a sign that says ugbb in front of your bullocks ?


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## ToolSteel

Or, you know, clothed. But with a sign that says "Z 4 TEH L"


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## John Ziegler

ToolSteel said:


> Or, you know, clothed. But with a sign that says "Z 4 TEH L"



Either way I gotta see this.


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## SuperBane

Zeigler Robertson said:


> You must be a walking giant after running a seven year cycle up to 5 grams a week. Any way we can get a photo of you naked holding a sign that says ugbb in front of your bullocks ?



This is doubtful zieg. No disrespect to BMA either but a lot of those guys blast and cruise and look like they never even reached puberty.
It isn't just the kids on that board either.
I've seen guys cycle at local gyms for long duration / large amounts.
I've seen a guy blast ... Blast for a whole year up to 2.5g per week...
When users do not have the necessary skill set or foundation ...time on and running large amounts mean jack shit.
I'm done referencing that other place but I will say that those local to me running didn't look like they were even running.

Without a plan or a blueprint how can one build a house?
Irrational training methods and just eating random foods.
No real goals.
 Most are content with a six pack. 
Nice abdominal for the ladies and could give two shits about the rest.
Goals that could be met with a proper diet and dedication.
Laziness brings them to aas. 
One of the guys didn't even have the six pack after the fact.

Most of these guys should take the money, invest in a diet/contest coach. Prep as if they were going to compete then ask themselves do they need some juice? At least that way they would have an idea what lifting and eating on a regimen were like. 
Mutha****as.


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## Bust My Ass

I suffered a heart attack just before I came off.  Luckily it was minor so the damage wasn't too bad.  So I need to be as healthy as possible.  I don't want my son to grow up without a father.  

Down 30 pounds already.  Only been training twice per week.  Light weights.

I did know how a 'normal' user pcts, but I made the thread because I wasn't sure if I should use higher doses than normal. 

I trained for 6 years naturally btw


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## ToolSteel

That sucks to hear man, but glad you're ok. 

At this point I still see 2 plans of attack. You can take another shot at getting your nuts working. Blast the hell out of hcg and run the clomid at 100. 

Also though, at this point trt can still be a very healthy option. And I do mean TRT, not cruising.


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## SHRUGS

Lmfao! Im laughin at all this and these doses. Maybe fill a pez dispenser with clomid and start at 200, keep fingers crossed, and pray every night.
!S!


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## DocDePanda187123

Bust My Ass said:


> I suffered a heart attack just before I came off.  Luckily it was minor so the damage wasn't too bad.  So I need to be as healthy as possible.  I don't want my son to grow up without a father.
> 
> Down 30 pounds already.  Only been training twice per week.  Light weights.
> 
> I did know how a 'normal' user pcts, but I made the thread because I wasn't sure if I should use higher doses than normal.
> 
> I trained for 6 years naturally btw



No, heavier use would lengthen the time spent PCT'ing, not necessarily raise the dosages. The only real method that's been studied with clinical results is Scally's method. It requires HCG, clomid, nolva, and somewhat frequent blood work.


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## John Ziegler

At this stage in the game the bottom line is a question of time. I don't think starting up an hcg slash clomid slash nolva pct 9 weeks out is gunna help out in the long run. If you snap back you snap back pct ship sailed weeks ago. Hang in there though there is a chance it will kick in again. Megatron28 would be the one I'd talk to about this.


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## Bust My Ass

Normal to have sore nips on clomid?  Also, I am getting cortisol rebound.  AM and PM are both high.  Face is bloated due to the cortisol and low free t3 levels.  

I'm going to go the TRT route.  I figure if I get my test levels in the 700-900ng/dl range my cortisol will go down.


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## DocDePanda187123

Bust My Ass said:


> Normal to have sore nips on clomid?  Also, I am getting cortisol rebound.  AM and PM are both high.  Face is bloated due to the cortisol and low free t3 levels.
> 
> I'm going to go the TRT route.  I figure if I get my test levels in the 700-900ng/dl range my cortisol will go down.



If you have moon face due to cortisol it is a chronic issue not an acute one. How long has cortisol been up? What was baseline? How do you know T3 is low? Have the labs to post? 

Your best bet is to come off everything for several weeks and get a complete blood panel done, assess your situation and options, then go from there.


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## Maijah

^^^^^^this, come off everything for 6-8 weeks and get blood's. Then you will know exactly where you stand.


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## IronSoul

Man I hate to hear this story. Did you plan on staying on forever when you made the decision to be on for 7 years. How in the world did you ever think running 7 grams a week for so long would be good? I'm glad that your heart attack was minimal and you're still around and that you have learned from it. I hate that you've had to go through all of this and are still trying to recover.i honestly don't think natural recovery is going to be possible, at least not within a year or two minimum. I blasted and cruised for around a year, in hindsight was anpoor decision, but I did. It's taken me around 9 months just to get back to normal and this is with extended pct and a good protocol and also being younger. It's been rough recovering from that, I can only imagine the difficulties you are facing. My recommendation is to seek medical guidance. Get with a doc, let him know what you did and get blood work done. And get back to good health and hopefully on TRT monitored routinely by your MD. This isn't something you want to bounce back and forth with figuring out on your own. Especially if you're older. Best of luck my friend, I wish you nothing but good things.


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## Bust My Ass

DocDePanda187123 said:


> If you have moon face due to cortisol it is a chronic issue not an acute one. How long has cortisol been up? What was baseline? How do you know T3 is low? Have the labs to post?
> 
> Your best bet is to come off everything for several weeks and get a complete blood panel done, assess your situation and options, then go from there.


 Free t3 is 180pcg/dl.  Not sure how long cortisol has been up.  I just got it tested for the first time recently.  AM is 45μg/dL and PM is 28 (16 is upper limits)
 I live in an isolated town with no private labs.  My GP is useless.  Refuses to test free t3, estradiol, LH, FSH, free test, prolactin, and progesterone.  So I've been seeing a Naturopath.    I would have to fly to a large city in order to see an endo.  Pathetic.  When I was living in China and Thailand and I was able to get full blood panels whenever.


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## Rodgeur

Bust My Ass said:


> What would you guys recommend for a long time user?  I'm currently on 25mg clomid per day. 9 weeks since my last injection and no libido whatsoever.  Should I do the standard protocol or a more aggressive one?
> 
> Should I add in Nolvadex? If so, how much and for what duration?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi, for long time user, i think your doctor can give you decapeptyl ( triptoreline). Longtime users have had good results with. Only one injection ( 100mc). Lh and fsh are restart.


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## Bust My Ass

Gonna take the advice and drop everything. (except clomid)  I stupidly poked 100mg test the day before another blood test. (2 days ago)  Test levels came in at 975ng/dl
Estradiol 26pg/ml
LH <0.2 IU/L   *1.2 -10.6 RR*
FSH <1 IU/L *1-11 RR*
PM cortisol 12.4 ug/dl
FT3 540 pcg/dl 
I have limp dick, acne, moonface, sugar cravings, insomnia, and agitation. Also started tearing up when I saw the scene where Rose is on the lifeboat being lowered on to the water

Think I should up clomid from 50mg ED to 100mg ED?


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## DocDePanda187123

Clomid is going to do nothing for you until that exogenous test is out of your system. 

How long ago were your last how many times have you injected, and how much, I'm the last 3-4wks?


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## Bust My Ass

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Clomid is going to do nothing for you until that exogenous test is out of your system.
> 
> How long ago were your last how many times have you injected, and how much, I'm the last 3-4wks?


My last injection was 60 hours ago.  It was 100mg test e.  I also injected 50mg test e 10-14 days prior to that.  Honestly my memory isn't the greatest right now so I'm not exactly sure on the date.  I think those have been the only two since I stopped blasting and cruising.  
I'm going to take .25mg adex and see if that helps.  I usually never get acne even when DHT levels are sky high.


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## DocDePanda187123

Bust My Ass said:


> My last injection was 60 hours ago.  It was 100mg test e.  I also injected 50mg test e 10-14 days prior to that.  Honestly my memory isn't the greatest right now so I'm not exactly sure on the date.  I think those have been the only two since I stopped blasting and cruising.
> I'm going to take .25mg adex and see if that helps.  I usually never get acne even when DHT levels are sky high.



Fukk, I slaughtered that last post didn't I lol?

Do you plan on trying Dr. Scally's method with HCG, nolva, and clomid or just want to try the regular nolva and clomid?


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## DocDePanda187123

And also,

Do you have clomid, nolva, and HCG? If so, how much of each?


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## Bust My Ass

Ugh..I'm not sure yet.  I'll probably end up deciding as I'm placing an order. :32 (6): I only have 30 tabs of clomid on hand. (which is two and a half years old)  Ordering tomorrow.
Seems like most guys do well with nolva/clomid.  But most guys don't abuse like I did.


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## Rodgeur

If you take 100mg test e, wait 2 weeks before start your pct.


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## ToolSteel

What about that magic stuff that only takes one shot


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## DocDePanda187123

Bust My Ass said:


> Ugh..I'm not sure yet.  I'll probably end up deciding as I'm placing an order. :32 (6): I only have 30 tabs of clomid on hand. (which is two and a half years old)  Ordering tomorrow.
> Seems like most guys do well with nolva/clomid.  But most guys don't abuse like I did.



If using Scally's method you will need 50mg of clomid twice daily for 30 days, 20mg of nolva twice daily for 45 days, and 20,000iu of HCG.


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## Rodgeur

ToolSteel said:


> What about that magic stuff that only takes one shot


Triptoreline. One shot 100mc and no need clomid nolva... but supervis by doctor it's better.


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## Rodgeur

Very long time users ( 10 years) restart lh and fsh with one shot...


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## ToolSteel

It's one of those things that sounds too good to be true, and there's not a ton of solid info on it from what I can find.


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## Rodgeur

ToolSteel said:


> It's one of those things that sounds too good to be true, and there's not a ton of solid info on it from what I can find.


Yes bro, reseach decapeptyl in web and studies for long time users. But one injection only. After wait 2 or 3 years maybe, i'm not sure.


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