# Input on adding Deca.



## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

So intitally in January I was planning on running test e, and dbol. Pretty straight forward cycle 500 test e, 25 dbol. Anastrazole eod. 2 weeks after last pin some clomid And nolva pretty straight forward right... Ok now lets tweek this and toss in the Deca Durabolin.. Someone shoot me some reccomendations.. Im real prone to sides especially gyno. Aaaand remember im dumb as a stump so explain it like your talking to retard.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 25, 2013)

use it from the first pin and give it time to work.You should notice the joint effect right away..atleast i did..I really felt the deca kick around week 9 ans its great for gains late in the cycle.You may have to up your test 650 -750 and add deca in 400-500 for a first run should be good.Also run the deca atleast 14 weeks so run the test around 17 weeks giving u plenty of time for the ester to clear.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 25, 2013)

running deca always means a long cycle.If your not willing to run a cycle so long go with the shorter ester npp


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 25, 2013)

for sides im sure u know caber twice a week and stay on the adex..aromasin kills adex


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 25, 2013)

I agree with Bundy here but what are your goals, stats, and cycle history?


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## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

Alright thanks BB. Yeah man im not really wanting/able to run a cycle that long. The extra test coupled with the caber, hcg, etc puts it out of my budget.... But you did just give me the idea of running my test a little longer. Maybe even just up the dbol a little as well


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## Rumpy (Dec 25, 2013)

I LOVE deca!  Like BB said, the norm is to run test c or e about 2 weeks longer than deca to give it time to clear.  I would go even a little longer, maybe 16 weeks of deca and 18 weeks of test to get the most out of it.  I would go around 600 test and 400 deca, OR run NPP instead.  It's a little more expensive and you should pin it EOD, but it kicks in a lot faster and can be run with test right up to the last day, it will clear faster than test E or C.  You can pin E or C with it EOD. If you go with Deca then 2X week is fine


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 25, 2013)

with deca dbol test there can only be one goal...bulk the fuk up


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## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

Uuuugh,,, man you guys are gonna make me cry.... So Anastrozole, is cool for ai with this... Someone told me somewhere (fuk if I remember where) that you shouldnt use Nolvadex with this as part of pct? Any truth to that


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## Rumpy (Dec 25, 2013)

No, no truth.  I've heard the whole no nolva with deca thing before, but it's not true.  Just standard Nolva clomid PCT


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## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

Ok I was intuitively thinking this was bunk,,, my buddy who has sold me on wanting to run deca uses nolva..  So would I be cheating myself running the cycle a little shorter something like 10 weeks deca 12 test? Basically my budget is tight.. You guys think I should just wait till next cycle?


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## Rumpy (Dec 25, 2013)

The problem is Deca is so damned slow.  By the time it's fully kicked in it's almost time to stop.  You could front load with 1 vial of NPP, but personally I think you'd be better off just running NPP for the full cycle.  It is a little more money, but I think the results would be worth it


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 25, 2013)

I recovered well from a hcg blast for 2 weeks and clomid aromasin for 4 weeks.I felt great after that pct and kept good size


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 25, 2013)

TheBlob said:


> Uuuugh,,, man you guys are gonna make me cry.... So Anastrozole, is cool for ai with this... Someone told me somewhere (fuk if I remember where) that you shouldnt use Nolvadex with this as part of pct? Any truth to that



Nolvadex should be a part of EVERY PCT. Anastrozole is a great AI to control estradiol while on cycle. 



TheBlob said:


> Ok I was intuitively thinking this was bunk,,, my buddy who has sold me on wanting to run deca uses nolva..  So would I be cheating myself running the cycle a little shorter something like 10 weeks deca 12 test? Basically my budget is tight.. You guys think I should just wait till next cycle?



You're selling yourself short by running the deca for such short time. NPP would be another option but what are your goals, stats and cycle history?


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 25, 2013)

the big knock on nolva is that it lowers igf1...who fukin knows I also heard if u have a AI in the pct u dont really need nolva not saying it wont work well it will.Everyone should try every method and see what works well for u


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 25, 2013)

Bill Roberts on Nolva and IGF-1:



			
				Bill Roberts said:
			
		

> The claim that Nolvadex reduces gains should not be taken too seriously. The fact is that any number of bodybuilders have made excellent gains while using Nolvadex. The belief that it reduces gains seems to stem from the fact that the scientific literature reports a slight reduction in IGF-1 (individuals using anabolic steroids were not studied though) from use of Nolvadex. Thus, Dan Duchaine reported that it reduces IGF-1 and therefore reduces gains. However, if this effect exists at all, it must be very minor, due to the excellent gains that many have made, and from the fact that no one has noticed any such thing from Clomid, which has the same activity profile.
> 
> However, I would not be surprised if one were to tell a steroid user that Clomid reduced his gains, he would immediately become afraid that Clomid reduced his gains (please note that no one I have ever heard of has noticed this.) Not having been so misled, however, he would not conclude this from his results. But if an authority publishes that such an effect occurs, whether it does or not it can become self-fulfilling by biasing the user.



William Llewellyn on Nolva: 



			
				William Llewellyn said:
			
		

> Tamoxifen citrate also possesses the ability to increase production of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and LH (luteinizing hormone). This is accomplished by blocking negative feedback inhibition caused by estrogen at the hypothalamus, which (via the actions of GnRH) fosters the release of the mentioned pituitary hormones. This is very similar to the function of Clomid® and cyclofenil. Since a higher release of LH can stimulate the Leydig’s cells in the testes (men) to produce more testosterone, tamoxifen citrate can have a positive impact on one’s serum testosterone level. This “testosterone stimulating” effect is an added benefit when preparing to conclude a steroid cycle. Since anabolic/androgenic steroids tend to suppress endogenous testosterone production, tamoxifen citrate can help restore a balance in hormone levels.
> 
> Excerpt From: Llewellyn, William. “Anabolics.” iBooks.



Nolvadex also increases the frequency of LH secretion whereas clomid has no affect on frequency only amplitude. Nolvadex also increases pituitary sensitivity to GNrH which is important towards recovery. The addition of Nolvadex alongside clomid also puts clomid in "competition mode" since the both invariably fight for the same receptors which ends up making clomid work more effectively. 

What it boils down to is are you worried about 4wks worth of SLIGHTLY decreased IGF-1 levels (it's yet to be proven that this decrease has any clinical significance by the way) or are you more worried about faster and better endogenous testosterone production recovery? Personally I choose the latter and won't blink an eye to the former.


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## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

Ummm stats are 6ft, 215lbs, 20% bf maybe a touch less, one cycle straight test e. Goals strength and more size please. I know I could prolly drop some bf% its prolly the reason for the gyno tendencies. But man some muscles popped up, lines started appearing on shoulders, and legs and brother I want bigger. Like I said my buddy, has been selling me on it, my original intent was to roll test again for a little longer and add dbol.


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## Rumpy (Dec 25, 2013)

With or without nandro, I would up the test to 600-750


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## Big Worm (Dec 25, 2013)

You're in the wrong game to be on a budget.


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## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

Eh bro, not all of us have deep pockets, and im not about to stop just because you got enough money you can drop cash for a cycle without regard to cost


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## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

Yup,, thanks Rump ill be pinning on the first,,, and looking forward to it


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## NbleSavage (Dec 25, 2013)

I think BB and Rumpy have this sorted for you. I'm just wrapping-up a 16 weeker of Test C and Deca, and loved my results both in terms of strength and mass. Couple weeks to go, then a DNP cycle to kickstart my cut & then back on the Tren Train (I'm on TRT BTW, so there's really no "off" for me). 

500 Mg Deca with 600 Mg Test for 16-20 weeks would be a fine first Deca cycle IMO. Keep your E2 and Prolactin in check with Stane and Caber (respectively), stay in a caloric surplus and lift hard & heavy. You will become thick with mass and strong like bull.


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## TheBlob (Dec 25, 2013)

Hey thanks gentlemen I appreciate ya


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## jyoung8j (Dec 26, 2013)

Yea I agree with a lot is said here.. I wouldn't start deca unless u can run 16-18wks.. I'm on wk 8 of test deca dbol and I'm just now feeling effects of test.. def need to b able to run for while to make it worth while.. also agree test up around 600-800 range.. best luck to you


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## H 3 L L S M A N (Dec 26, 2013)

TheBlob said:


> Eh bro, not all of us have deep pockets, and im not about to stop just because you got enough money you can drop cash for a cycle without regard to cost



The thing I don't understand is when your talking about budget the cost of gear is small time change compared to food bills. Excluding HGH the cost of one months supply of meat/carbs/supps and other stuff is around the cost of an entire long ass hardcore cycle using high amounts of say any compounds. How is your food looking while your on the stuff, just curious cause if simple gear breaks the bank im not sure how your diet is looking.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 26, 2013)

H 3 L L S M A N said:


> The thing I don't understand is when your talking about budget the cost of gear is small time change compared to food bills. Excluding HGH the cost of one months supply of meat/carbs/supps and other stuff is around the cost of an entire long ass hardcore cycle using high amounts of say any compounds. How is your food looking while your on the stuff, just curious cause if simple gear breaks the bank im not sure how your diet is looking.



I'm sure no one here is going to starve themselves just to be able to buy AAS. The budget for AAS is probably calculated AFTER the food budget is taken into account.

Edit* I should say I HOPE no one here will starve themselves lol


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## TheBlob (Dec 26, 2013)

Thank you Doc, I appreciate your confidence. Of course my food budget is pretty much number one.. The aas comes out of my entertainment budget. I have more than just me to feed. In fact taste wise the little bloblettes get more variety than myself as my diet consists of pretty much chix breast, brocol, brown rice, oatmeal, peanut butter,,,, aaaand protein powder


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## shenky (Dec 28, 2013)

H 3 L L S M A N said:


> The thing I don't understand is when your talking about budget the cost of gear is small time change compared to food bills. Excluding HGH the cost of one months supply of meat/carbs/supps and other stuff is around the cost of an entire long ass hardcore cycle using high amounts of say any compounds. How is your food looking while your on the stuff, just curious cause if simple gear breaks the bank im not sure how your diet is looking.



You can get away with bulking without breaking the bank. Rice/beans/cheese/any meat that's on sale, oatmeal, milk, potatoes, bagels, whey and the glorious PB. throw in a weight gainer shake and you're still only looking at 60 bucks a week, if that


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