# Debunking broscience: eating most of your calories/carbs late at night makes you fat



## MrRippedZilla (Oct 13, 2017)

*Debunking broscience: eating most of your calories/carbs late at night makes you fat*

A common belief, completely lacking in logical thinking, is that you should avoid eating most of your cals/carbs in the evening because it can cause fat gain, make you unhealthy, etc. This is bullshit. As we'll see, not only is there nothing to support this but also quite a bit showing the complete opposite. 

The majority of studies with matched calories have actually found that eating later is superior for body comp & health and yet this piece of broscience is alive and well (I know members of this very board who believe it). So, time to kill it off completely. Well, hopefully anyway. 


*Origin*

The late night eating myth may have originated from observational studies that consistently find a positive relationship between calories consumed in the evening and high bf% in the genera population. So it's the classic mistake of assuming correlation = causation when it very much does not. Those same studies show that the general population consumes too many calories overall, the real cause of the problem, so to blame it on the distribution is plain stupid. 

The same positive relationship is found in other observational research showing that people who skip breakfast, eat late at night, etc are fatter than those who eat breakfast, have regular meals, eat less in the evening, etc. Again, this has nothing to do with the caloric distribution. Those same studies illustrate that these folks who skip breakfast, lunch, etc have unhealthy behavioral patterns in general:  
_"Late night eating is not only correlated to a higher calorie intake, but also less sleep time and more sedentary activities, i.e. watching TV and more time __spent in front of the computer, which are additional confounders that can predispose people to weight gain."_

The point I'm trying to make here is that observational data isn't telling us that eating later in the day = weight gain. It's telling us that an overall unhealthy lifestyle = weight gain. Controlled studies in general do not show larger evening meals negatively impacting body comp compared to eating earlier in the day but, before I get into that, 2 population groups that need to be discussed. 


*Shift workers*

You will find studies claiming that late night eating is bad for shift workers. The problem here is that these studies are uncontrolled (re calories) and confounded by the fact that shift work itself has an independent negative effect on metabolic health. 
Shift-workers are predisposed to a bunch of problems including obesity, cardiovascular disease and gastrointestinal issues. These effects are likely the result of 3 key things - compromised diet, sleep deprivation and, the key issue, chronic stress. Those 3 make a pretty good team when it comes to causing poor health.   

Now, having said all that, the fact that these folks have irregular meal patterns and disrupted circadian rhythms may play a role too.

Humans are pretty damn good at adapting to different meal patterns. Most of this is regulated by *Ghrelin* and is known officially as "entrainment" = Ghrelin increasing in anticipation of a meal and preparing your metabolism to handle what is to come. This works because the stomach cells that produce Ghrelin happen to have their own little circadian clocks that sync up with your metabolism to anticipate food. 
I don't want to make this too complicated so here is the gist of it: Stomach tells brain when to eat, which helps establish a regular meal habitual meal pattern, which in turn helps regulate the release of Ghrelin. This means eating all the time is a bad thing for Ghrelin control and having a fixed meal schedule is a good thing. 
The whole point of Ghrlein being released before meal time is to trigger food seeking behaviour. It also stimulates brain functions like learning & memory development. This actually makes a lot of evolutionary sense - the urge to find food gives us enhanced skills to ensure survival ie make you better at finding food. 

Along side this, we have the *circadian rhythm* (your sleep/wake cycle) that is regulated by daylight and, to a much greater degree in 2017, your habitual patterns. The circadian rhythm is too involved in helping your metabolism adapt to different circumstances. All of these adaptation mechanisms are about your body wanting to be as proactive, rather than reactive, as possible - smart approach to take.

 So, we can see that your body likes to anticipate a certain routine everyday based on your habitual diet/sleep patterns and adjusts its hormonal profile & metabolism accordingly. Now, if these patterns are irregular, your body has no time to adapt. This is the case with shift workers and might explain, at least partially, why they're so susceptible to many health disorders - like having a less favorable hormonal profile.  
Of course it's important to point out that shift workers with fixed patterns (always working nights, etc) are still better off than those with unpredictable patterns (rotating day/night shifts) because at least you're giving your body some time to re-entrain the circadian rhythm. For shift workers with unpredictable patterns, the circadian rhythm is a permanent mess, which is not a good thing. 

The point I'm trying to make here is that we have so many confounders present in shift workers that it's practically impossible to isolate what is causing what so blaming the late night eating alone is, again, plain stupid. 


*Ramadan*

Studies looking into Ramadan tend to lack caloric control but are still worth mentioning because man, if there was ever an obvious example showing that "eating most of your cals/carbs at night makes you fat" is complete bullshit, it's this one. 

These folks eat everything in the evening and the data shows a mostly neutral, sometimes positive, effect on bf% and other health parameters. 
Let me be blunt. If these folks eat all of their calories & carbs in the evening (sometimes up to 1am-2am) with no real negative effects then why the **** are some of you worrying about those extra 50g of carbs in your last meal? Come on bro, you're better than that. 


*Controlled studies*

All of these studies contain fixed calories for all groups with the only variable at play being the distribution. The late meal groups contain 67-100% of total cals between 6pm-bedtime so let's see if this myth has any truth to it (as if you weren't aware by now what the answer is going to be). 

1) Chronobiological Aspects of Weight Loss in Obesity: Effects of Different Meal Timing Regimens
The first ever calorie controlled study on meal timing found that weight loss did not differ between groups who consumed all their calories at 10AM or 6PM. No difference was seen for cortisol, BP or REE either but fat oxidation was consistently higher in the PM group. Not that this means much of anything since the study duration was only 15 days.


2) The role of breakfast in the treatment of obesity
Moving into the early 90s we have a well designed 12 week study involving habitual breakfast eaters and non-breakfast eaters placed in a breakfast or non-breakfast group. Fat loss was greater among former breakfast eaters who followed the non-breakfast diet. This group ate lunch and dinner while consuming 2/3 of their calories at dinner (6PM+). However, they also found that former breakfast skippers who were put on a breakfast diet got more favorable results than those who continued the breakfast skipping pattern. Hmm.

These seemingly contradictory results might be explained by impulse control. People in the general population who have poor eating habits, including breakfast skipping, tend to also have uninhibited and impulsive eating patterns. Giving these folks breakfast might therefore be a huge benefit. Then you have better control in the group skipping breakfast who normally consumes it. This group is more relevant to our community since we tend to track cals/macros and don't just mindlessly eat whatever. 

Another interesting finding was that the breakfast eating groups  had an increase in depression-induced eating while the complete opposite occurred in the no breakfast group. The folks in the breakfast group also saw the diet as more restrictive:
_"...the larger meal size of the no-breakfast group caused less disruption of the meal patterns and social life than did the smaller meal sizes in the breakfast condition."
_These favorable effects likely explain the greater compliance rate of the no breakfast group at follow up 6 months later (81% vs 60%).

There were no differences between groups in regards to the weight loss composition (75% fat /25% lean mass) or RMR.

3) Weight loss is greater with consumption of large morning meals and fat-free mass is preserved with large evening meals in women on a controlled weight reduction regimen
The late 90s give us a study with subjects alternating between two, 6 week phases on the same diet of which 70% of calories were eaten in the morning or evening. The morning group had greater weight loss compared to the evening BUT that extra weight was in the form of muscle mass. The larger evening meals preserved muscle mass better and resulted in a greater reduction of overall bf%:
_"The greater weight loss associated with the AM [morning] pattern that we found in our study was due primarily to loss of fat-free mass, which averaged about 1 kg more for the AM pattern than for the PM pattern."_
Some of you may get excited by these results but keep in mind the small sample size (10 subjects) and the fact that they measured body comp using total body electrical conductivity (similar to BIA and I've already illustrated how inaccurate that is here under the "form, dose, duration and assessment tools" section). 

This study included weight training 3x/week, which may explain the difference in body comp between the group since the PM group consumed a greater % of their cals postwo. That is a big MAY. Here are the meal setups:
AM - 
Breakfast, 8-8.30AM: 35% of total cals
Weight training (circuit), 9-9.30 AM
Lunch, 11-12PM: 35%
Dinner, 4.30-5PM: 15%
Evening snack, 8-8.30PM: 15%

PM - 
Breakfast, 8-8.30AM: 15% of total cals
Weight training (circuit), 9-9.30 AM 
Lunch, 11-12PM: 15% 
Dinner, 4.30-5PM: 35%
Evening snack, 8-8.30PM: 35%

A slight anecdotal tangent to show that real life results support the data re eating most of your cals at night won't make you fat, here is an example of what some of my clients (including fitness models) do:
- Prewo meal (20-25% of daily cals), lift 2hrs later, postwo meal (largest of the day), final meal 3 hrs later
-This has them consume both postwo meals in the evening, containing 75%+ of total cals and 200g+ of carbs, with no worries about fat gain. Just saying  

4) Influence of meal time on salivary circadian cortisol rhythms and weight loss in obese women
This 2000s study using almost the same protocol as study 1), found that splitting the calories evenly into 5 meals consumed every other hour between 9AM-8PM, eating all cals in the morning (9-11AM) or in the evening (6-8PM) did not affect weight loss, metabolic rate or cortisol differently. 
The main limitation here, again, is the short study duration for each phase (18 days). You would think that using a similar protocol to a previous study the authors would at least correct the major limitation of said previous study but apparently not. 


5) Greater weight loss and hormonal changes after 6 months diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner
This study comes from 2011 and shows, over 6 months, subjects who ate most of their carbs at dinner (8PM+) lost more fat, experienced greater fullness throughout the diet and saw more favorable hormonal changes than those who ate their carbs earlier in the day. Eyebrow raising results that require more in depth analysis. 

This study dug deeper into the finding that the diurnal peak of *Leptin* can be altered. This discovery was made in a Ramadan study where average leptin levels stayed the same but the pattern changed:
_"Previous studies have described a typical diurnal pattern of leptin secretion that falls during the day from 0800 to 1600 hours, reaching a nadir at 1300 hours and increases from 1600 with a zenith at 0100 hours. Ironically, this crucial hormone responsible for satiety is at its highest levels when individuals are sleeping...It was hypothesized that consumption of carbohydrates mostly in the evening would modify the typical diurnal pattern of leptin secretion as observed in Muslim populations during Ramadan."

_For those wanting to know more about Leptin, I'd urge you to look into Lyle McDonalds work since he's covered it extensively but suffice to say that Leptin is the most important hormone when it comes to fat loss maintenance. It controls a whole host of things that crash when dieting and make you feel like shit = impossible to stay at that level of conditioning year round. If it is possible to manipulate it so that it peaks during the day, rather than night, then that could be a big deal. Keeping it higher during the day might help with appetite control, which is crucial for fat loss maintenance. 

The key question here: is it possible to shift leptin secretion to induce greater satiety and diet adherence during morning and noon of the next day, instead of having leptin peak during night time (as it does normally)? 
Important to point out that the key to leptin manipulation is carbs. It may be possible to eat carbs before you go to sleep and not experience the peak until you wake up in the morning (an added bonus is that many sleep better with some carbs pre-bedtime due to the serotonin boost).

Both groups received the same hypocaloric diet divided into breakfast, lunch, dinner and 3 "snacks" (morning, afternoon, night):
1300-1500 kcal
45-50% carbs
30-35% fat
20% protein
Group A received the carbs evenly split throughout the day.
Group B received the majority of their carbs (~170 g) at dinner.
There are no details about the exact macro breakdown at each meal but based on the menus of each respective group, it looks like around 100-120g carbs at dinner in group B.

Both groups lost weight and saw improvements on several health markers but group B lost more weight (-11 kg vs -9 kg), body fat (-7% vs -5%), stayed fuller and had a better hormonal profile:
_"Hunger scores were lower and greater improvements in fasting glucose, average daily insulin concentrations, and homeostasis model assessment for insulin resistance (HOMAIR), T-cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, C-reactive protein (CRP), tumor necrosis factor-a (TNF-a), and interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels were observed in comparison to controls."
_
But the most interesting part, at least for those of us who want to maintain low bf%, was that the carb-rich dinner increased average leptin levels compared to the standard diet:
_"Our experimental diet might manipulate daily leptin secretion, leading to higher relative concentrations throughout the day. We propose that this modification of hormone secretion helped participants experience greater satiety during waking hours, enhance diet maintenance over time and have better anthropometric outcomes."
_To be clear, leptin still fell from baseline but not as much compared to the standard diet (20.6% vs 26.2%). This may help explain why my intermittent fasting clients find it easier to stay lean year round. And when I say lean I am talking legit 6-7% and no, some are not genetically blessed for leanness (they are actually natural fatties). 

4 decades worth of data and I can keep going but I think you all get the picture. Carbs at night are perfectly fine and even optimal for some folks. 


*Conclusion*

Observational studies do find associations between meal patterns and obesity but this is attributed to poor behavioural habits rather than meal timing per se. People who eat more in the evening simply eat more calories overall, which explains why they weigh more. 

Controlled studies that match calories and look at the effect of distributing those calories through out the day paint a completely different picture. 
The short term studies (15-18 days) find no significant difference between early vs late meal patterns while most long term studies (>12 weeks) show that late meal patterns produce superior results for body comp. This might be explained by better nutrient partitioning after meals due to hormonal modulation, which causes better dietary adherence rates. In other words, people find it easier to eat the majority of their cals at night. I've said it a bunch of times but adherence > everything else when it comes to body comp. 

So there ya go. Nothing wrong with eating big at night. Those who were not aware have hopefully learnt. Those who don't care and want to stick to their beliefs will at least do us the curtsy of not spreading this complete and utter bullshit.


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## Beezy (Oct 13, 2017)

Makes complete sense to me. 
My body is screaming for food at night like no other time of the day. Also, I feel sluggish eating too much during the day and sleep like a baby with a full stomach.


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## Dungeon Dweller (Oct 13, 2017)

I've done intermittent fasting where I eat _only_ at night, and its worked for me. I also sleep much better if I'm not "starving".

The observation that eating at night causes people to sit around and watch tv/sit on the computer I think is upside down. Its the people staying up late and binging on junk that makes them fat.

Some of the studies might be valid on timing for certain individuals, but I think that some use it as an excuse for being gluttons.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 13, 2017)

I would still take your brain to Arbys.

No homo.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 13, 2017)

Good shit mrrippedz ..


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## snake (Oct 13, 2017)

People still think this?

I find it to less Bro Science and more Vjj Science.


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 13, 2017)

So your telling me The Biebs was wrong about no carbs after 6 bruh; But I've always been a Belieber...it can't  be


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## DF (Oct 13, 2017)

Bring on the Pie & Ice cream before bed!!!!!!!!! :32 (19):


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## John Ziegler (Oct 13, 2017)

Two years ago I went round and round about this with you guys 

Me being the guy with the biggest belly on this motherfukker at the time 

Don't give a fukk about science saying otherwise if you want to get big and fat fast 

Eat and sleep and just let that food rott in you gut


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## John Ziegler (Oct 13, 2017)

Eat right before bed time lol 

Let the food sit in your gut all night getting all hot and stinky 

Bahahahaha happy stinkin ass polluted gut  farting

Suit yourself


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## jennerrator (Oct 13, 2017)

I eat ice cream every night before bed....you've seen my abs........


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 13, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> Two years ago I went round and round about this with you guys
> Me being the guy with the biggest belly on this motherfukker at the time
> Don't give a fukk about science saying otherwise if you want to get big and fat fast
> Eat and sleep and just let that food rott in you gut





Zeigler said:


> Eat right before bed time lol
> Let the food sit in your gut all night getting all hot and stinky
> Bahahahaha happy stinkin ass polluted gut farting
> Suit yourself



Zeigler, let me see if I understand this:
- You admit to believing this bullshit. 
- You admit to "not giving a **** about science" aka having zero interest in learning and not believing in this bullshit. 
- Your posting in a section that you have no interest in, which I don't understand. 
- Your acting like a hurt little bitch because clearly this struck a nerve.

This article, which wasn't exactly a breeze to type up, was intended for people exactly like you in the hope that your open minded enough to see when your wrong about something. Clearly that isn't the case, which is fine. Disappointing but fine.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 13, 2017)

Eat before bed time & Don't eat before bed time 

View attachment 4599
View attachment 4600


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## John Ziegler (Oct 13, 2017)

You should have put a "this is a non debatable just read it and agree with it" disclaimer 

Just throwing in what I know from experience with eating a bunch of food before bed time experience

Fat lazy and lethargic feeling the next day is all it ever did for me


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 13, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> You should have put a "this is a non debatable just read it and agree with it" disclaimer
> Just throwing in what I know from experience with eating a bunch of food before bed time experience
> Fat lazy and lethargic feeling the next day is all it ever did for me


Had you just posted this, your experience, I wouldn't have reacted at all. 
Instead, you literally said that you don't give a **** about science, in a sub-forum dedicated to it, and then went full nonsensical Zeigler mode as your prone to do. That is why I reacted. If you don't understand where I'm coming from then there is no hope for you.


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## jennerrator (Oct 13, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> And now your posting anecdotes that mean jackshit here. It's the classic "my pic is all the proof" anecdote too. Awesome. Guess I'll have to delete all of this crap when your finished.



damn..........great progress man...................

that beard though........................................................................................................................................................


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## John Ziegler (Oct 13, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Had you just posted this, your experience, I wouldn't have reacted at all.
> Instead, you literally said that you don't give a **** about science, in a sub-forum dedicated to it, and then went full nonsensical Zeigler mode as your prone to do. That is why I reacted. If you don't understand where I'm coming from then there is no hope for you.



It was a figure of speech in my haste about the DGAF about what science says.

Should of said if I eat before bed I blow up over night type of thing man sorry about that.


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 14, 2017)

I only eat snow cones when it's actually snowing.....


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## PFM (Oct 14, 2017)

Hundreds, more like thousands of BB's have won local to Pro shows using the night time protein only model and 7 years ago some fuk debunks the last 5 decades.

O fuk'n K

Like Jenner I am also one who can (once I am in that condition) eat just about anything in moderation and maintain 10.2 - 10.5%.

Not everyone has the genetics, training discipline and their gear use down to their own personal science.

By all means take this and run, please!


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## Maijah (Oct 14, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> Eat before bed time & Don't eat before bed time
> 
> View attachment 4599
> View attachment 4600



Damn Zig! Your lookin great man, I'd hit it.


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## BigSwolePump (Oct 15, 2017)

First, I wanna say that this is a good read and makes sense for those who can eat a meal before bed and not feel like complete shit afterwards.

Personally, I have a hard time eating a ton of calories even a few hours before bed. When I did do this, I gained weight. I believe that weight to be a buildup of undigested food mostly but I did gain more fat. I would wake up feeling bloated followed by a huge shit in the mornings. I felt like I was wasting alot of those calories. I wish that I could eat meals before bed without that bloated uncomfortable feeling all night. It is somewhat comforting to sleep with a full belly. Maybe I am just old?

To your point tho, I was probably eating more calories than I needed too.

I cut off eating  before bed a little less than 2 months ago. Usually 4-5 hours before and have definitely seen a reduction in fat storage. I will say that I am doing an intermittent fasting protocol too so I could be an exception. Am I eating less calories? Slightly but we are talking around 200-300 calories as I would have a small snack before bed.

Just to be clear, I am not saying that your study is wrong(obviously it isn't if it worked for those studied) but not eating before bed has worked for me.


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## BRICKS (Oct 15, 2017)

If I don't eat a regular full meal before bed I wake up hungry early, can't sleep anymore, shaky, feel flat, etc... I also eat big before taking a nap.  Always.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 15, 2017)

I eat before bed and in the middle of the night .. It depends on what your eating and how hard do you really train .. everyone thinks they bust their ass but do u really ??


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## jennerrator (Oct 15, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> I eat before bed and in the middle of the night .. It depends on what your eating and how hard do you really train .. everyone thinks they bust their ass but do u really ??



yes....yes I do


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 15, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> Eat before bed time & Don't eat before bed time
> 
> View attachment 4599
> View attachment 4600



Ziggy, not eating before bed wasn't the only thing that changed here and you know it. Your posts are kind of disingenuous because of it. 

Your trt+ is well managed 
Your training became more consistent 
You ate less 

To attribute your weight loss entirely to not eating before bed? 

In the words of Peter Griffen 

C'mooooon


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 15, 2017)

PFM said:


> Hundreds, more like thousands of BB's have won local to Pro shows using the night time protein only model and 7 years ago some fuk debunks the last 5 decades.
> 
> O fuk'n K
> 
> ...



Is nothing in this sport or life ever allowed to change? Should we just bury our heads in the sand?


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## jennerrator (Oct 15, 2017)

It's not about "things" it's about the fact that every fuuking person's body etc is extremely different...that's it, plain and simple


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 15, 2017)

jennerrator50 said:


> ..that's it, plain and simple



Just like a bagel...


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## Mythos (Oct 15, 2017)

Food for thought: people who have success with a cut back on cals/carbs before bed are probably cutting back a lot on cals/carbs overall.. In a sense it might be useful mentally for some dieters who feel like they're only having to give up some of one meal period. 
As for me, I've worked nights for years and if i don't eat big before bed then I don't sleep, simple as that..and the better i sleep the leaner, happier and more energetic i am. Easy decision for me to keep dinner before sleep rather than in the evening before work.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 15, 2017)

Mythos said:


> Food for thought: people who have success with a cut back on cals/carbs before bed are probably cutting back a lot on cals/carbs overall.. In a sense it might be useful mentally for some dieters who feel like they're only having to give up some of one meal period.
> As for me, I've worked nights for years and if i don't eat big before bed then I don't sleep, simple as that..and the better i sleep the leaner, happier and more energetic i am. Easy decision for me to keep dinner before sleep rather than in the evening before work.


My hypothesis, as mentioned in the body of the article, is that it has to do with eating mentality. Those who are naturally controlled eaters will do well with heavy meals before bed while the more impulsive ones would go overboard. Of course they will blame the distribution rather than the fact they eat too much but whatever. 

Also, I'm commenting on a beast (49 pages!) tendon paper tomorrow that might catch your interest. I made sure to double check your tendon 101 thread (why the **** is that not in my sub-forum?!) to see if you'd already covered it so I'm good to go


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## Mythos (Oct 15, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> My hypothesis, as mentioned in the body of the article, is that it has to do with eating mentality. Those who are naturally controlled eaters will do well with heavy meals before bed while the more impulsive ones would go overboard. Of course they will blame the distribution rather than the fact they eat too much but whatever.
> 
> Also, I'm commenting on a beast (49 pages!) tendon paper tomorrow that might catch your interest. I made sure to double check your tendon 101 thread (why the **** is that not in my sub-forum?!) to see if you'd already covered it so I'm good to go



It's funny, I was just about to ask if you read that tendon thread and was going to ask your thoughts on it. Hell yeah I'd love to see anything more on that subject.. I aggravated my elbow tendon again at work but this time around im doing much better much faster thanks to what i picked up researching that thread..knowledge really is power.
Hah yeah i wasn't sure where to put it, might be better in here ?


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## Beezy (Oct 15, 2017)

Mythos said:


> It's funny, I was just about to ask if you read that tendon thread and was going to ask your thoughts on it. Hell yeah I'd love to see anything more on that subject.. I aggravated my elbow tendon again at work but this time around im doing much better much faster thanks to what i picked up researching that thread..knowledge really is power.
> Hah yeah i wasn't sure where to put it, might be better in here ?



Got the same shit going on, Myth. I can't do any pulling lifts at all with my right hand. Two weeks ffs.
Looking forward to it, Zilla!


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## Seeker (Oct 16, 2017)

I would guess carb backloading is similar to the concept of this study. Which I did experiment with in the past.


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 16, 2017)

I just eat when I'm hungry...


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## John Ziegler (Oct 17, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Ziggy, not eating before bed wasn't the only thing that changed here and you know it. Your posts are kind of disingenuous because of it.
> 
> Your trt+ is well managed
> Your training became more consistent
> ...



There's more to it yes, but honestly think I couldn't have done it still eating at bedtime 

Maybe it's just me but it's practically ridiculous how fat I can get over night

So I always try to debate these eat at bed time debunking's


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 17, 2017)

Egg whites and oatmeal before bed is my shit.. feed the machine at all times


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 17, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> There's more to it yes, but honestly think I couldn't have done it still eating at bedtime
> Maybe it's just me but it's practically ridiculous how fat I can get over night
> So I always try to debate these eat at bed time debunking's


If this was an actual scientific debate, pretty much what this sub-forum is trying to replicate, then you would be laughed at for trying to argue against my "debunking" with anecdote. That is literally what would happen. 

Your welcome to share your experience as I said before man but let's not pretend it's a form of "debating" the article please


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 17, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> If this was an actual scientific debate, pretty much what this sub-forum is trying to replicate, then you would be laughed at for trying to argue against my "debunking" with anecdote. That is literally what would happen.
> 
> Your welcome to share your experience as I said before man but let's not pretend it's a form of "debating" the article please



Hey if anecdotes are what they like, several people have already stated here in this thread eating at night doesn't make them fat. 

So some say yes 

Some say no though... 

Now what? 

If only there was a way to control the subjects and variables and then analyze the results of this to demonstrate an answer to this conundrum in a neutral and replicable manner!!!

Oh well. Guess we will all be ripped and hungry or fat and happy but never achieve a reasonable balance.


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## jennerrator (Oct 17, 2017)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Ripped = balanced and happy

Fat = 6 feet under

it's all personal choice....


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 17, 2017)

I think if your already fat eating at night will only add to your fatness .. If your low bf and eating food that isn't fattening you won't get fat.. Pretty simple.. also like u said before how hard do u really train?? I get 3 trading sessions in a day sometimes so eating at night ain't no thing for me .. my body screams for it actually


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 17, 2017)

I think zilla your write up is geared more to the body builder or athlete that's already in top shape instead of a person getting there ., or am I wrong like usual lol


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 17, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> I think zilla your write up is geared more to the body builder or athlete that's already in top shape instead of a person getting there ., or am I wrong like usual lol


Your kind of right lol. At least your trying bundy, I cannot fault you for that 

Your right that people who are more "controlled" eaters, like bodybuilders & athletes, will naturally do better eating most of their cals at night vs impulsive eaters (most of the population). 
But, my article also contains controlled studies (same calories, different distribution) in obese and normal men & women and never found a negative effect of eating most of your cals at night. So...

As POB said, this very thread shows that you have mixed experiences on this so the only way to truly answer the question is to look at a controlled group of people who are consuming the same calories and the only difference between the groups is where those calories are placed (morning, night, etc). We then analyze the results and try to see if they're replicable in order to come up with a solid answer. 
The controlled studies in my article did exactly that and found that eating most of your cals at night *never*, in 5 attempts going back to 1987, resulted in fat gain and occasionally was better for body comp in general. 

That is why trying to "debate" my article with anecdote is useless. The evidence in the article far outweighs any anecdote. 
Again, I don't mind people sharing their experiences - plenty of it in this very thread. But to say that it is a form of "countering" the article? No, it really isn't.


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 17, 2017)

I'm only able to eat when people donate 10cents to my charity fund.....


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## Tiny (Sep 16, 2020)

Old post but dealing with this fight and body is getting sneaky. Will find myself waking up in the middle of the night when my restraint is non existent heading towards the kitchen.  

As far as the eating late, I accept it based on my experience not my extensive bro science background. Show me a photo of myself in the AM and I can tell you if I ate later then I should have the night before. Didn't the research mention the body release of specified chemical was higher when avoiding a meal later then 2 hours before sleep? Was that mentioned here?


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## dk8594 (Sep 16, 2020)

Tiny said:


> Old post but dealing with this fight and body is getting sneaky. Will find myself waking up in the middle of the night when my restraint is non existent heading towards the kitchen.
> 
> As far as the eating late, I accept it based on my experience not my extensive bro science background. Show me a photo of myself in the AM and I can tell you if I ate later then I should have the night before. Didn't the research mention the body release of specified chemical was higher when avoiding a meal later then 2 hours before sleep? Was that mentioned here?


Damnit.  This got bumped and got me excited thinking rippedzilla was dropping some new knowledge.

Anyways, I know where you are coming from. I am a mid night snacker too and find that manipulation of my blood sugar can be used as a sleep aid. It sucks for dieting but nothing like a carb coma to put me to sleep.


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## DeplorableCracker (Sep 19, 2020)

I eat a fat ass peanut butter sandwich right before bed every single night...lol


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## Skullcrusher (Sep 20, 2020)

My Muscle Feast protein and carbs:

pre-workout - Whey Protein Isolate + Whole Oat Powder
post workout - Whey Protein Isolate + Pure Dextrose
before sleep - Micellar Casein + Whole Oat Powder


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## Sickman (Nov 22, 2020)

I eat a bowl of cottage cheese with fruit or jelly in it before bed. If you can stomach it, cottage cheese is really high in casein protein, which is digested slower. I think this is beneficial to do before sleep because your body will need time to digest it.


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 4, 2022)

I'm pretty sure Justin Bieber touched this subject adequately already...


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 4, 2022)

JuiceTrain said:


> I'm pretty sure Justin Bieber touched this subject adequately already...


Looks pretty ripped to me...


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## MetatronTurtle (Nov 11, 2022)

I think the main issue is that insulin and HGH act antagonistically. And sleep is when we release GH the most, so people try to avoid food/carbs before sleep to maximize GH. Thing is, insulin is released in response to elevated blood sugar. There's fuel to elicit repairs and growth. Whereas GH is released when insulin is absent to promote lipolysis, liberating fatty acids as fuel. So up to you guys to decide which one is more important. But since they act during opposite states, that's why when you can manipulate via exogenous administration, you get big fucking humans!


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