# Will my program give me balanced and effective results? (Novice)



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 16, 2017)

Day I

Low-bar squat 3X5 (or) 8
Bench press 3X5 (or) 8
Pendlay rows 3X5 (or) 8

Chin-ups 3X8-10
Chest dips 3X8-10
Side-lateral raises 3X10
Barbell curls 3X10

Day II

Low-bar squat 3X5 (or) 8
Bench press 3X5 (or) 8
Pendlay rows 3X5 (or) 8

Deadlifts 1X5 (or) 8
Romanian deadlifts 2X8
Overhead press 3X8
Straight-arm pull-downs 3X12-15

Day III

Low-bar squat 3X5 (or) 8
Bench press 3X5 (or) 8
Pendlay rows 3X5 (or) 8

Pull-ups 3X8-10
Glute-ham raises 3X10-12
Face-pulls 3X12-15
Cable overhead triceps extensions 3X10

The 5 (or) 8 reps for the main lifts depend upon linear progression stalls. The idea is that when I plateau on 5 reps then I switch to 8 reps till the next pleateau and then alternate back and forth accordingly.

Any advice, feedback, or modification suggestions is appreciated.


----------



## Milo (Apr 16, 2017)

I wouldnt squat low bar 3 times a week. Your shoulders will fall apart and cause hell for your bench.


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 16, 2017)

Hello, thanks for replying. Are you sure, even for someone still lifting novice weights? Squatting with under 200lbs on the bar?


----------



## Milo (Apr 16, 2017)

Let me ask why do you want to low bar 3 times a week? There are tons of squat variations. Youre basically just doing a low bar workout 3 times a week. I would take one of te squat days out and do more on the other 2.


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 16, 2017)

I assumed a squat frequency of 3X a week was optimal for building a strength foundation, because Rippetoe and many others program with it for full body novice routines.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Apr 16, 2017)

3 days per week squatting is ok. But it will make you very tight. However doing it with an Olympic bar all 3 times is gonna **** you up. Serious elbow pain.

Linear progression is stupid. Waiting until you stall out before making changes is just dumb.

Rippetoe is a ****ing idiot never do anything his bitch ass says.


----------



## Milo (Apr 16, 2017)

Ninjadelusion said:


> I assumed a squat frequency of 3X a week was optimal for building a strength foundation, because Rippetoe and many others program with it for full body novice routines.



Here's what I mean about 3 times a week... youre squatting 3 sets of 5-8 once per workout, 3 times a week. I think youd be better off with something like Day 1: Your low bar squat, followed by something that aint a squat, then a squat variation like maybe high bar pause squat/SSB squat/front squat/even leg press. Then Day 3 could be similar. I dont think your quads will grow that well with what you have there and youre going to be hurting with that much low bar regardless of weight.


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 16, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> 3 days per week squatting is ok. But it will make you very tight. However doing it with an Olympic bar all 3 times is gonna **** you up. Serious elbow pain.
> 
> Linear progression is stupid. Waiting until you stall out before making changes is just dumb.
> 
> Rippetoe is a ****ing idiot never do anything his bitch ass says.



What sort of progression scheme do you recommend?


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 16, 2017)

Milo said:


> Here's what I mean about 3 times a week... youre squatting 3 sets of 5-8 once per workout, 3 times a week. I think youd be better off with something like Day 1: Your low bar squat, followed by something that aint a squat, then a squat variation like maybe high bar pause squat/SSB squat/front squat/even leg press. Then Day 3 could be similar. I dont think your quads will grow that well with what you have there and youre going to be hurting with that much low bar regardless of weight.



If I'm going to do that, wouldn't it be better to just do a 4 day upper/lower instead?

For what it's worth I don't really get DOMS to any significant degree anymore and have yet to experience structural, joint pain, etc. So while I hate squats as much as anyone while I'm doing them, they're not painful in a bad way (so far.)


----------



## Milo (Apr 16, 2017)

Ninjadelusion said:


> If I'm going to do that, wouldn't it be better to just do a 4 day upper/lower instead?
> 
> For what it's worth I don't really get DOMS to any significant degree anymore and have yet to experience structural, joint pain, etc. So while I hate squats as much as anyone while I'm doing them, they're not painful in a bad way (so far.)



Upper/lowers are great, you have other options though. If you dont like something, dont do it. If you arent getting sore though, you need to change shit up. Stan Efferding himself would be crippled after a leg day.
The fact that you havent experienced pain yet doesnt mean a damn thing. Low bar squats hate **** your shoulders into submission. Then you get elbow pain. Then bicep pain. Then pec pain. There are way better options than just low bar squatting 3 times a week then calling your quads taken care of. Forget about the shoulder pain. Give yourself variation.


----------



## ToolSteel (Apr 16, 2017)

Wtf. Are you trying to make them hurt? 

Also 2x on pillar. Rumpletoe is a friggin hack.


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 17, 2017)

Milo said:


> Upper/lowers are great, you have other options though. If you dont like something, dont do it. If you arent getting sore though, you need to change shit up. Stan Efferding himself would be crippled after a leg day.
> The fact that you havent experienced pain yet doesnt mean a damn thing. Low bar squats hate **** your shoulders into submission. Then you get elbow pain. Then bicep pain. Then pec pain. There are way better options than just low bar squatting 3 times a week then calling your quads taken care of. Forget about the shoulder pain. Give yourself variation.



I actually like upper/lower splits quite a bit. I was running one before mono ass-****ed me for 6 weeks and I wasted away back down to embarassing low weights. It's just I've had it drilled into me that full body is the "right" way to do it until you can basically squat twice your body weight, which I'm a far cry from being able to do.


----------



## Milo (Apr 17, 2017)

Sounds like a stupid ****ing rule.


----------



## snake (Apr 17, 2017)

Ninjadelusion said:


> Hello, thanks for replying. Are you sure, even for someone still lifting novice weights? Squatting with under 200lbs on the bar?



You can continue to squat under 200 lbs 3x/week; I'm sure your body will allow that. But if you intend on doing 2-3x that, you're going to need more recovery. 

You're goal is hopefully not to continue to squat 200 lbs.... currect? Then listen to Milo.


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 17, 2017)

What are the recommended beginner programs on this site?


----------



## PillarofBalance (Apr 17, 2017)

Ninjadelusion said:


> What sort of progression scheme do you recommend?



Take a look at daily undulating periodization.


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 17, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Take a look at daily undulating periodization.



DUP isn't a program; it's a principle. Lane Norton says as much.


----------



## ToolSteel (Apr 17, 2017)

If you're gonna be an ungrateful cuck then pound sand.


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 17, 2017)

I wasn't being ungrateful. I simply missed that he was quoting/answering a question from page 1 when I asked for what type of progression he recommended.

My reply to that comment was made because the last thing I posted was concerning the specific programs that people here recommend. I mistakenly assumed he was suggesting DUP to that question and not the one from before about progression schemes.


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Apr 17, 2017)

I don't see a problem with full body workouts. I don't have an issue with squatting 3x week. I don't have an issue with linear progression. 

All I want to know is - is your main goal strength or hypertrophy?


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 17, 2017)

Hypertrophy is the end goal, but I need to build foundational strength too.


----------



## Joliver (Apr 17, 2017)

Ninjadelusion said:


> What are the recommended beginner programs on this site?



PHUL....the retard's method to DUP.


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Apr 17, 2017)

Ninjadelusion said:


> Hypertrophy is the end goal, but I need to build foundational strength too.



It's really a joint package with a slight emphasis on one or the other - focusing on hypertrophy doesn't mean you won't get stronger. 

The big issue I have with the full body approach, and your workout setup demonstrates this, is that it's simply not possible to focus on everything you want to focus on without spending hours in the gym. For example, deadlifts. How much benefit is 1x8 per week really doing? IME, not much. 

So I'd either:
- Keep your big 3 and settle on *fixed *accessory work.
So 3-4 sets of 8-12 on squat, bench, row along with 3-4 accessory lifts of your choice (I'd go with side lateral raise/face pulls, GHRs, bi/tri work and pull ups) at 2-3 sets of 10-15. You can rotate the accessory work every 6-8 weeks to focus on other things while keep progress on the big lifts linear if the results justify it. 

- Switch to an upper/lower approach. 
The main advantage here being the reduced workout times and allowing you to do all the movements you wish without some bullshit minimal volume (1 set, etc). Easy example:
Upper - Horizontal row, horizontal push, vertical pull, shoulders, bi/tri, traps/shoulders, core work
Lower - Squat, hip hinge movement, quad move, unilateral leg move, calves, core work 
The template allows you to hit each muscle group optimally while allowing variation over the long term (swap squats for box squats, swap DLs for RDLs, swap BB row for T bar row, etc, etc). Volume stays the same for the time being but, over time you can mess around with that as you each depending on progress.

Either way, don't get lost in the details too much. As a novice, any non-retarded program would work just fine and there is no need to go OTT with it


----------



## Ninjadelusion (Apr 17, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> It's really a joint package with a slight emphasis on one or the other - focusing on hypertrophy doesn't mean you won't get stronger.
> 
> The big issue I have with the full body approach, and your workout setup demonstrates this, is that it's simply not possible to focus on everything you want to focus on without spending hours in the gym. For example, deadlifts. How much benefit is 1x8 per week really doing? IME, not much.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot. Great reply and I appreciate the effort you put into it.


----------

