# Experiences with Cardarine?



## red132 (Dec 17, 2021)

I'd like to hear about anyone that's had results (good or bad) with cardarine.


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## Ryu (Dec 17, 2021)

10mg ED was good, 20mg I grew a second penis and a third lung. 

To be honest, I use it primary for its effects on lipids.


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## bvs (Dec 17, 2021)

10mg a day and i definitely felt better endurance


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## lfod14 (Dec 17, 2021)

Works awesome, helps cardio endurance and can unscrew cholesterol REAL fast when your doc is up your ass. Whether all the Cancer stuff is actually a threat, who the hell knows?  Probably not. All my experieince is with the original (501516) many people are moving to the newer (0742) which is supposed to be an improvement all around, but don't know first hand.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

lfod14 said:


> Works awesome, helps cardio endurance and can unscrew cholesterol REAL fast when your doc is up your ass. Whether all the Cancer stuff is actually a threat, who the hell knows?  Probably not. All my experieince is with the original (501516) many people are moving to the newer (0742) which is supposed to be an improvement all around, but don't know first hand.



I've heard of the new 0742, but inhavnt had an opportunity to find any substantial papers on it.
Any I should look at?



red132 said:


> I'd like to hear about anyone that's had results (good or bad) with cardarine.



Cardarine is one of my guilty pleasures
Between lipid management and improved cardio for a cut... it's hard for me to stay away from

the cancer portion worrisome for certain.
Long story short, it will kill cancer and cause cancer.
depending on type and location.

Hard to decipher the studies without a massive background in cancer research/knowledge
I've had it explained to be a few times, still dont fully get it... but it is definitly a concern


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I've heard of the new 0742, but inhavnt had an opportunity to find any substantial papers on it.
> Any I should look at?
> 
> 
> ...


The flaw in the study is that they gave the equivalent of like 50mg per day to rats for 2/3's of their life. There are other flaws in the study.. there's a thread where I outline it all in detail.

I'll see if I can find it, and copy/paste or link it.

I think there is not enough valid data to determine if it causes cancer. Recently a new study has started to look at cardarine for longevity and anti aging purposes.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> The flaw in the study is that they gave the equivalent of like 50mg per day to rats for 2/3's of their life. There are other flaws in the study.. there's a thread where I outline it all in detail.
> 
> I'll see if I can find it, and copy/paste or link it.
> 
> I think there is not enough valid data to determine if it causes cancer. Recently a new study has started to look at cardarine for longevity and anti aging purposes.



Please do
But it does go a bit further.
The dosages are actually the human equivalent of 20mg for a human, the doses seem high, but liver/kidney function and efficacy/ affinities are significantly different between these rats and us.

That being said the Rata were genetically engineered to ha e a massive predisposition to cancer.
But only a specific spectrum.
So some of the information is newr useless or worse, but some is pertinent


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## TomJ (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> The flaw in the study is that they gave the equivalent of like 50mg per day to rats for 2/3's of their life. There are other flaws in the study.. there's a thread where I outline it all in detail.
> 
> I'll see if I can find it, and copy/paste or link it.
> 
> I think there is not enough valid data to determine if it causes cancer. Recently a new study has started to look at cardarine for longevity and anti aging purposes.


Not to mention that the mice used are genetically engineered TO GET CANCER. 

Supposedly that breed was designed to get that particular cancer very easily for treatment research and weren't suitable for a risk assessment study like the one they did. 

All the research I've looked into has basically said that that single study is so flawed in its execution that it shouldn't even be looked at as a professional, legitimate study

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Please do
> But it does go a bit further.
> The dosages are actually the human equivalent of 20mg for a human, the doses seem high, but liver/kidney function and efficacy/ affinities are significantly different between these rats and us.
> 
> ...


They aren't.. I actually break down the math for the human equivalent dose in the post I'll link. It's not 100 times more than our dose, like some idiots claim, but it is higher by a good amount.

You also bring up a good point about rats not being a great model for humans. Something else I also touch on in that post.

Normally something like this would still go to human trial, or at least to another animal model for further research. However fact is no more research has happened because no one can patent cardarine. So there's no money to be made, therefore no/little research has been done since.

Personally I think it's a great peptide. It has many health positive effects.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> They aren't.. I actually break down the math for the human equivalent dose in the post I'll link. It's not 100 times more than our dose, like some idiots claim, but it is higher by a good amount.
> 
> You also bring up a good point about rats not being a great model for humans. Something else I also touch on in that post.
> 
> ...



Can you elaborate on the inability to patent Cardarine?


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## Skullcrusher (Dec 17, 2021)

My experience with Cardarine is that it didn't do JACK SQUAT.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Can you elaborate on the inability to patent Cardarine?


The chemical structure is well known, and not owned by any company. Although now that I think about it, I suppose a company could just modify the tail of the structure and then patent it... however other pharmaceutical companies could do the exact same thing. It's hard to make money when the drug is not exclusive.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Here's the info I posted... Look at this post a d the one right below it. I thought I was way longer and more thorough than this. Probably had a lot in my head that I didn't write down in the thread.






						What are you using to increase HDL?
					

Farmed seafood has its own issues.



					www.ugbodybuilding.com


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Cardarine appears to be liver protective, improves cholesterol, and can help reverse insulin resistance/type 2 diabetes. It improves cardiovascular performance, and being a PPARδ agonist it promotes FFA oxidation and uptake from fat stores in the body.

There are so many benefits, that I'd say it's worth running on occasion even if it had a 2-5% rate of cancer occurrence... but I'm a risk taker, I don't expect others to share the risk profile I am comfortable with.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> The chemical structure is well known, and not owned by any company. Although now that I think about it, I suppose a company could just modify the tail of the structure and then patent it... however other pharmaceutical companies could do the exact same thing. It's hard to make money when the drug is not exclusive.



Makes sense, if the almighty dollar isnt involved, nothing will be done.


Send0 said:


> Here's the info I posted... Look at this post a d the one right below it. I thought I was way longer and more thorough than this. Probably had a lot in my head that I didn't write down in the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeaj, I was off on my numbers, but yeah.. some guys yell about the 100x more.. but your numbers are accurate
I'm usually around 20mg for a short term dose., 
so the rats are doubling me lol


Send0 said:


> Cardarine appears to be liver protective, improves cholesterol, and can help reverse insulin resistance/type 2 diabetes. It improves cardiovascular performance, and being a PPARδ agonist it promotes FFA oxidation and uptake from fat stores in the body.
> 
> There are so many benefits, that I'd say it's worth running on occasion even if it had a 2-5% rate of cancer occurrence... but I'm a risk taker, I don't expect others to share the risk profile I am comfortable with.



Agreed
Thoughts on the "New and Improved" Cardarine?


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Agreed
> Thoughts on the "New and Improved" Cardarine?


I've also been eyeing GW0742 for a while... but I keep passing it by because I can't find animal dosage information to convert to HED in the available studies. I seem to also recall that GW0742 had better documented cases of cancer angiogenesis and tumor proliferation... But it's possible I'm remembering this incorrectly _(it's been a while since I researched this compound)_

I need to revisit pubmed for research, but for now I just opt to keep using GW501516


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## TODAY (Dec 17, 2021)

Cancer concerns aside, i'd note that a significant number of people have reported an increase in skin tag growth on cardarine. I've seen reports of a number of other abnormal skin reactions, as well. This is anecdotal, of course, but worthy of consideration.

As far as my own experience goes, I experimented with 20mg/day for a period of about 2 months and noted the following:

1. Pretty marked increase in cardiovascular performance around the 1 week mark. While this could certainly lead to an increase in TDEE, I'd hesitate to describe cardarine as a "fat-burner".

2. Substantial positive impact on lipid profile. Of all the supplements I've tried and have metrics for, cardarine had the most profound impact on my lipid panel. I did not note any other changes in my bloodwork.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

Dogshit, it increased my LDL and decreased my HDL somehow, also, worsened my liver values.  When a proven PPAR agonist like telmisartan exists, no need to use this shit.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Back to the cancer thing... I'd like to add that while I personally don't think it causes cancer, I do think that it could exacerbate growth of existing cancer cells. Not cardarine specific, but there are studies on PPARδ in general that suggest it negatively regulates cancer/tumor growth.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Dogshit, it increased my LDL and decreased my HDL somehow, also, worsened my liver values.  When a proven PPAR agonist like telmisartan exists, no need to use this shit.


Umm.. telimisartan is an ARB; it's used to treat high blood pressure. It is a partial ppar agonist, but the effect is so weak it's not worth mentioning; several clinical studies came to the same conclusion. Plus it works on the ppar gamma pathway; which doesn't do anything for FFA oxidation to my knowledge.

Maybe you are confusing this for some other compound?


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## TODAY (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Dogshit, it increased my LDL and decreased my HDL somehow, also, worsened my liver values.  When a proven PPAR agonist like telmisartan exists, no need to use this shit.


Telmisartan is a partial PPAR-gamma agonist.

Cardarine is a PPAR-delta agonist.

They do different things.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

TODAY said:


> Telmisartan is a partial PPAR-gamma agonist.
> 
> Cardarine is a PPAR-delta agonist.
> 
> They do different things.


Telimisartan isn't even a real ppar agonist. It's only a partial agonist. The effect is so weak that it doesn't even seem worth mentioning, especially since the drug was made as an ARB.


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## TODAY (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Telimisartan isn't even a real ppar agonist. It's only a partial agonist. The effect is so weak that it doesn't even seem worth mentioning, especially since the drug was made as an ARB.


Yeah, I seem to recall that WADA went so far as to remove it from the banned substances list because it has never been shown to improve ANY metric of athletic performance.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

TODAY said:


> Telmisartan is a partial PPAR-gamma agonist.
> 
> Cardarine is a PPAR-delta agonist.
> 
> They do different things.


Right, and one does something and the other was destructive.  I’ll take the former.


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## TODAY (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Right, and one does something and the other was destructive.  I’ll take the former.


Don't get me wrong, telmisartan is a very good and beneficial drug, it just doesn't really have any relevance to the topic at hand.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

TODAY said:


> Don't get me wrong, telmisartan is a very good and beneficial drug, it just doesn't really have any relevance to the topic at hand.


The topic at hand being a carcinogen and, at least in my case, doing the exactly the opposite of what it is purported to do.  I think it’s at least somewhat relevant.  Victor black goes into this in depth on IG.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Umm.. telimisartan is an ARB; it's used to treat high blood pressure. It is a partial ppar agonist, but the effect is so weak it's not worth mentioning; several clinical studies came to the same conclusion. Plus it works on the ppar gamma pathway; which doesn't do anything for FFA oxidation to my knowledge.
> 
> Maybe you are confusing this for some other compound?


I’m aware what it is, it seems you may be slightly misinformed.  3 second google search.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> The topic at hand being a carcinogen and, at least in my case, doing the exactly the opposite of what it is purported to do.  I think it’s at least somewhat relevant.  Victor black goes into this in depth on IG.


I don't think you understand how these drugs work. They don't even do remotely the same thing. They were designed for completely different purposes.

Telimisartan is only a partial PPAR gamma agonist, a weak one at that... Which works on a completely different path way and has different actions on the body than a PPAR Delta agonist.

You are comparing apples and oranges.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> I’m aware what it is, it seems you may be slightly misinformed.  3 second google search.


Sigh.. 1 second Google search. Let's not get into a pissing match here.. seriously 🙄. There are more clinical.studies that agree with this, don't make me link them all.






						Does the PPAR-Î³-activating property of telmisartan provide a benefit in clinical practice? - Hypertension Research
					






					www.nature.com
				




_"Therefore, we think that although TEL activates PPAR-γ, its effect is too small to exert an additional benefit on glucose metabolism in clinical practice. The number of hypertensive patients with diabetes is rapidly increasing. Therefore, development of new ARBs with more potent PPAR-γ-activating properties is needed to further improve the outcome of these patients."_


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## TODAY (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> The topic at hand being a carcinogen and, at least in my case, doing the exactly the opposite of what it is purported to do.  I think it’s at least somewhat relevant.  Victor black goes into this in depth on IG.


By that logic, we could also compare cardarine to ibuprofen, which also has minot effects on PPAR-gamma


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

No pissing match, I do this wherever there’s a cardarine thread.  It’s a dogshit drug and if I can keep one person from using it, I’ll be happy.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

TODAY said:


> By that logic, we could also compare cardarine to ibuprofen, which also has minot effects on PPAR-gamma


ibuprofen would have probably been more beneficial.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> No pissing match, I do this wherever there’s a cardarine thread.  It’s a dogshit drug and if I can keep one person from using it, I’ll be happy.


By using strawman arguments to other drugs that don't even work in the same way?

I get a lot of benefits from cardarine. I'm sorry that it didn't work for you. I still think you may have been trying to use it for something.other than it was intended for, since you keep comparing it to an ARB drug


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## TODAY (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> ibuprofen would have probably been more beneficial.


At the risk of getting super fucking pedantic, chronic ibuprofen use has been shown to increase the risk of heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease, chronic ulcers and a whole host of other nasty shit.

And it won't do squat for athletic performance or lipids.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> By using strawman arguments to other drugs that don't even work in the same way?
> 
> I get a lot of benefits from cardarine. I'm sorry that it didn't work for you. I still think you may have been trying to use it for something.other than it was intended for, since you keep comparing it to an ARB drug


Yes, I was trying to use it for something other than what it was intended.  I didn’t use it to reduce lipids or liver values. Oh, wait…..yes, yes, I did.


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Yes, I was trying to use it for something other than what it was intended.  I didn’t use it to reduce lipids or liver values. Oh, wait…..yes, yes, I did.


Okay buddy.. you're obviously sour about this. Have a good day 🙄


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

TODAY said:


> At the risk of getting super fucking pedantic, chronic ibuprofen use has been shown to increase the risk of heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease, chronic ulcers and a whole host of other nasty shit.
> 
> And it won't do squat for athletic performance or lipids.


I’m going to go ahead and out pedantic you,  look at my verb tense.  “Would have been,” also, mix in what seems to be my undetected sarcasm.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Okay buddy.. you're obviously sour about this. Have a good day 🙄


Would you be happy with lipids being crushed as well as increased liver values whilst taking a drug purported to reduce both?  I will shit all over this poison every chance I get.  You people need to use common sense, look at what big Pharma is doing right now, but they killed THIS drug.  No thanks.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I've also been eyeing GW0742 for a while... but I keep passing it by because I can't find animal dosage information to convert to HED in the available studies. I seem to also recall that GW0742 had better documented cases of cancer angiogenesis and tumor proliferation... But it's possible I'm remembering this incorrectly _(it's been a while since I researched this compound)_
> 
> I need to revisit pubmed for research, but for now I just opt to keep using GW501516


My same issue
I csnt find any GOOD pertinent information to guide my judgement on trying it



TODAY said:


> Cancer concerns aside, i'd note that a significant number of people have reported an increase in skin tag growth on cardarine. I've seen reports of a number of other abnormal skin reactions, as well. This is anecdotal, of course, but worthy of consideration.
> 
> As far as my own experience goes, I experimented with 20mg/day for a period of about 2 months and noted the following:
> 
> ...


My main reason fornusing it is lipids
I naturally struggle with high LDL, even with proper diet
Throw Androgens in there... I'm fucked
So the positives outweigh the benefits for me personally.


Send0 said:


> Back to the cancer thing... I'd like to add that while I personally don't think it causes cancer, I do think that it could exacerbate growth of existing cancer cells. Not cardarine specific, but there are studies on PPARδ in general that suggest it negatively regulates cancer/tumor growth.



Yes, PPARs categorically show it.
However, there is some STRANGE evidence to suggest it can cause certain cell proliferation.
Wether this is specifically applicable to cancer, your guess is as good as mine.

Like @TODAY mentioned, stuff like akin tags are considered a certain type of cell proliferation (But I'm at work, so I cant go crazy on research right now



TODAY said:


> Yeah, I seem to recall that WADA went so far as to remove it from the banned substances list because it has never been shown to improve ANY metric of athletic performance.



Yeah, it's pretty specific.
I personally prefer Lisinopril for BP medication
I feel much worse frokm Telmisartan


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Would you be happy with lipids being crushed as well as increased liver values whilst taking a drug purported to reduce both?  I will shit all over this poison every chance I get.  You people need to use common sense, look at what big Pharma is doing right now, but they killed THIS drug.  No thanks.



I mean
It most mostly killed because no money can be made.
Also
Different people will react differently to different compounds.

Case in point:
If I take Anavar, my lipids crash, I feel like fucking trash.
Acid reflux, acne (I mean it's still a DHT derivative, so yeah lol... no matter how "Mild"

I gave @Human_Backhoe my Var.
Fucker takes the same shit and his lipids are perfect at 50mg ED!!!
And we are genetically VERY similar being brothers and all.

So i do believe that Cardarine isnt beneficial for you.
Its quite possible/ Plausible

But its difficult to label a compound as good/bad when its so relative


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

@silentlemon1011 just take a statin, this poison was the last bullshit I tried before succumbing to statins.  LDL stayed under 100 even on 300mg mast.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I mean
> It most mostly killed because no money can be made.
> Also
> Different people will react differently to different compounds.
> ...


I know, I totally get the individuality of response.  But, this drug is shit, plenty of other drugs to use, so, I do this dance every time I see cardarine, no need for someone else to waste thier money on Frankenstein shit.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> @silentlemon1011 just take a statin, this poison was the last bullshit I tried before succumbing to statins.  LDL stayed under 100 even on 300mg mast.



Between diet and the occasional Cardarine (Few weeks after blast) 
I dont need a statin
I also use a peptide (Brain fart... the one that shortens telomeres) that gets it in rock star shape, so interestingly enough, my AAS use has had a positive effect on my overall health.
Due to peripheral knowledge learned within the AAS community


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## TomJ (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Would you be happy with lipids being crushed as well as increased liver values whilst taking a drug purported to reduce both? I will shit all over this poison every chance I get. You people need to use common sense, look at what big Pharma is doing right now, but they killed THIS drug. No thanks.


Have you ever thought that maybe youve never actually taken cardarine? 

You're literally the first anecdotal report I've ever seen that claimed worsened lipids. 

As it stands currently, cardarine is used primarily for that exact purpose and for it's cardio benefits, is in all likelyhood not a carcinogenic, and after years of anecdotal reporting seems to have a pretty well tolerated/nonexistent risk/side effect profile. 

Amoxicillin gives me terrible stomach aches and nausea. But you don't see me going around splinting angry rants about how it's a garbage drug. 

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

TomJ said:


> Have you ever thought that maybe youve never actually taken cardarine?
> 
> You're literally the first anecdotal report I've ever seen that claimed worsened lipids.
> 
> ...


Was from science,bio, I informed them of my results as well as provided bloodwork.  Congratulations for refraining from angry rants. I prefer to be a petulant child about dogshit drugs.  That’s just me, though.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Was from science,bio, I informed them of my results as well as provided bloodwork.  Congratulations for refraining from angry rants. I prefer to be a petulant child about dogshit drugs.  That’s just me, though.



That was so well worded,
Fantastic
Loved it


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Between diet and the occasional Cardarine (Few weeks after blast)
> I dont need a statin
> I also use a peptide (Brain fart... the one that shortens telomeres) that gets it in rock star shape, so interestingly enough, my AAS use has had a positive effect on my overall health.
> Due to peripheral knowledge learned within the AAS community


Epithalon?


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Epithalon?



Thank you
I DID mention I'm semi retarded didnt I?


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## TomJ (Dec 17, 2021)

Bumpygooch said:


> Was from science,bio, I informed them of my results as well as provided bloodwork. Congratulations for refraining from angry rants. I prefer to be a petulant child about dogshit drugs. That’s just me, though.


Was thale cardarine the only compound you were taking? 
Individual response is a very real thing, but it just seems odd that you would have the exact opposite reaction than is commonly accepted. It's like your BP rising from aspirin.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Send0 (Dec 17, 2021)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Thank you
> I DID mention I'm semi retarded didnt I?


Don't worry, I had a brain fart too. I sat there for a few minutes trying to recall the name.

I have some in my fridge, but haven't tried it yet.


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## Bumpygooch (Dec 17, 2021)

TomJ said:


> Was thale cardarine the only compound you were taking?
> Individual response is a very real thing, but it just seems odd that you would have the exact opposite reaction than is commonly accepted. It's like your BP rising from aspirin.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


It wasn’t the only drug, however, it was the “control” drug during the period in which I took it.  I understand the uniqueness of my result.  I soapbox to at least get guys to research a bit more or reconsider, maybe just take a statin instead.  My LDL wasn’t just raised, it was startlingly raised, no change it diet either.


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Don't worry, I had a brain fart too. I sat there for a few minutes trying to recall the name.
> 
> I have some in my fridge, but haven't tried it yet.


highly recomend


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## Human_Backhoe (Dec 17, 2021)

@Send0  I highly recommend it! Coming off 15 years of rotating shifts, nothing worked like this to un fuck my circadian rhythms. All the studies point to this stuff as somewhat of a miracle lol


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## Adrenolin (Dec 17, 2021)

I only run Cardarine with tren... so that's pretty much every cycle/blast lol


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## TODAY (Dec 17, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> I only run Cardarine with tren... so that's pretty much every cycle/blast lol


To offset the cardiovascular decrements of tren? How well does the GW work in that scenario?


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## silentlemon1011 (Dec 17, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> I only run Cardarine with tren... so that's pretty much every cycle/blast lol



Love it with Tren
Keeps breathing and cardio at decent levels.
If I add a high dose of Magnesium Glycinate, no Trensomnia or cardio problems
helps to keep your lipids from TOTALLY being fucked... I mean, they're still fucked, but not AS fucked


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## Adrenolin (Dec 17, 2021)

TODAY said:


> To offset the cardiovascular decrements of tren? How well does the GW work in that scenario?


It helps quite a bit, albeit I typically only do a single blast per year, but tren and metribolone are almost always towards the end of my blast, and while my lipids still take a hit, it's nothing drastic that isn't back to normal within 2-3wks post cycle.


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