# 4th Cycle Advice



## douggy_Fresh (Aug 7, 2015)

My background: my first two cycles were a joke, I did them Improperly when I was young and stupid. Coming off of college football and a bad steroid cycle, I ballooned to almost 400 pounds. Two years ago I made a change and went from 396 pounds with 33% body fat, to 275 pounds with 18.7% body fat. About 4 months ago I did my third cycle it was test E and equipoise. 

I was under the guidance of a former pro, I did proper on cycle, proper post cycle, and really enjoyed and kept my results. My former pro has suggested I do a cycle of Winny and test, with proper diet the goal is to be down to 240 pounds. Currently 6'3" 275, 18.7% BF 

4th cycle: 300mg test E twice a week, 50mg of liquid winny ED for 8 weeks. 

Cycle support: Liv 52, milk thistle, animal flex, and 25mg of Nolva (ED for all) 

PCT - 2 weeks of Nolva 50mg ED followed by 2weeks Nolva 25mg ED 

I'd like your thoughts, knowledge, and opinions. I'm constantly doing research, but this is my 1st post to a forum.


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## Magical (Aug 7, 2015)

Stretch that 8 week cycle to 12, also add 500iu HCG ew while on cycle
Cycle Support: Add NAC and drop milk thistle, no need for nolva on cycle
PCT: Add clomid with the nolva

Edit: Wait no AI? Did you use adex or stane for your last "proper cycle"?


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## NbleSavage (Aug 7, 2015)

Welcome to UGB!

Start HERE, focus in particular on the PCT section.

I don't like Winny. Yea you'll dry-out but IME your joints tend to pay the price and you'll add the water back as soon as the Winny leaves your system. I see it as a contest prep drug, not much more.

I would favor adding Mast to your next cycle in place of the Winny. 

8 weeks isn't long enough for a Test E cycle.

12 weeks, 500 Mg Test E / 500 Mg Mast E. 

Stane for AI as needed. No need to run Nolva on-cycle. Drop the milk thistle and replace with NAC. No idea what 'animal flex' is but I suspect you don't need it.

PCT follow the guidelines in the sticky.

Your diet will determine your success with the cut.

Good luck, Mate!


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## douggy_Fresh (Aug 8, 2015)

Thanks guys, I'll defiantly pick up the NAC. I have lots of HCG so I'll add that to the PCT. the only reason I was doing the animal flex is for joint health on winny. I can extend the test E to 12 weeks. Should I still only do the winny for 8 weeks, and continue the test E for 4 more weeks?


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## ToolSteel (Aug 8, 2015)

That's some hefty weight loss. Nice job!


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## HDH (Aug 8, 2015)

douggy_Fresh said:


> Thanks guys, I'll defiantly pick up the NAC. I have lots of HCG so I'll add that to the PCT. the only reason I was doing the animal flex is for joint health on winny. I can extend the test E to 12 weeks. Should I still only do the winny for 8 weeks, and continue the test E for 4 more weeks?




The winny depends on the risk you are willing to take. Some will, some won't.

If you decide on 8 weeks only, run them the last 8 weeks. You will look better at the end and as the test e tapers itself off, the winny will still be going to the end so it's like a mini extension to the cycle.

H


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## Magical (Aug 8, 2015)

douggy_Fresh said:


> Thanks guys, I'll defiantly pick up the NAC. I have lots of HCG so I'll add that to the PCT. the only reason I was doing the animal flex is for joint health on winny. I can extend the test E to 12 weeks. Should I still only do the winny for 8 weeks, and continue the test E for 4 more weeks?



Nah, run the HCG the entire cycle. Stop HCG at pct


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 8, 2015)

Welcome to UG bro. The guys will sort you out. I just want to add that winstrol is not some magical fat burning compound anymore than test is. 

Bodybuilders use it around competition time to dry out. Not to burn fat. It makes them appear leaner but in reality they are already single digit bodyfat.

Skip the winstrol and save yourself some joint pain. Run drol instead at 100mg for 4 to 6 weeks. It will suppress your appetite while keeping strength thru the roof. Conditioning may suffer though if that matters to you.


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## Magical (Aug 8, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Welcome to UG bro. The guys will sort you out. I just want to add that winstrol is not some magical fat burning compound anymore than test is.
> 
> Bodybuilders use it around competition time to dry out. Not to burn fat. It makes them appear leaner but in reality they are already single digit bodyfat.
> 
> Skip the winstrol and save yourself some joint pain. Run drol instead at 100mg for 4 to 6 weeks. It will suppress your appetite while keeping strength thru the roof. Conditioning may suffer though if that matters to you.



POB is a drol sponsor. He gets paid everytime he says drol


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## Magical (Aug 8, 2015)

But on a serious note, I hear drol is Magical...like myself


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 8, 2015)

Magical said:


> POB is a drol sponsor. He gets paid everytime he says drol


Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol


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## Magical (Aug 8, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol Drol Drol drol drol drol drol



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

yes, stay on at least a low dose of test year round.  pct is crap and anyone who is serious about their goals doesn't come off, ever.  i have never seen anyone who pcts and looks impressive or is really strong.


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## Magical (Aug 12, 2015)

Bust My Ass said:


> yes, stay on at least a low dose of test year round.  pct is crap and anyone who is serious about their goals doesn't come off, ever.  i have never seen anyone who pcts and looks impressive or is really strong.



Ive met a lot of guys that look good after coming off a cycle. TRT makes it easier to keep gains buts thats not the advice to give someone. Cycle as long as you can and do TRT if you have no other choice


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

Magical said:


> Ive met a lot of guys that look good after coming off a cycle. TRT makes it easier to keep gains buts thats not the advice to give someone. Cycle as long as you can and do TRT if you have no other choice


they are lying.


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

thanks for the downvote lol, yeah 125-250mg test is so unhealthy compared to being 18% bf and using anti cancer drugs.  sad.


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## Magical (Aug 12, 2015)

Bust My Ass said:


> thanks for the downvote lol, yeah 125-250mg test is so unhealthy compared to being 18% bf and using anti cancer drugs.  sad.



I didnt neg rep you until you neg repped me. I merely disagreed with you that telling guys dont cycle and to get on trt for life. Thats bad advice, straight up. Wellbeing comes first


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## Magical (Aug 12, 2015)

Bust My Ass said:


> they are lying.



My buddy hasnt done a cycle in 10 years and still has a nice physique. You dont need gear for results


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

Magical said:


> I didnt neg rep you until you neg repped me. I merely disagreed with you that telling guys dont cycle and to get on trt for life. Thats bad advice, straight up. Wellbeing comes first


i speak from hands on experience. myself and plenty of other have been on at least 250mg test for years and our bloodwork has never been a concern to any of our doctors.  im sure u get bloodwork every 4 weeks right?  sounds like ur just parroting. people here are using dnp to lose fat lol but a bit of test is SO bad oh noes.


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

Magical said:


> My buddy hasnt done a cycle in 10 years and still has a nice physique. You dont need gear for results


if ur able to keep your gains from gear u had to business using it in the first place.


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## HDH (Aug 12, 2015)

It all depends on goals. I have no intentions on coming off, I plan to grow till I can't and then keep as much as possible till I'm lying in the dirt covered hole  

Not everyone feels like that though. If someone want's to cycle and come off that's their choice. Not everyone lives and dies for it.

But, Bust My Ass, I see that you are hard core till the end. 

I also respect that because I feel the same.

I've been on both sides of it and respect what each individual chooses.

H


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

^^Thank u.  i just get frustrated when people act as if a bit of test year round is the end of the world.  my best friend works at a health clinic and oversees the bloodwork of hundreds of hormone users including several pro bodybuilders.  so im not talking out my ass when i say 250mg of test isn't bad for ur health.  at the most, in sensitive individuals, blood pressure may be slightly raised and HDL may be slightly lowered and LDL raised.  this is easily solved by cardio, increasing healthy fats, and losing bodyfat (if you're 12% or more)


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 12, 2015)

Bust My Ass said:


> if ur able to keep your gains from gear u had to business using it in the first place.



Again, wrong 

10char


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## HDH (Aug 12, 2015)

Bust My Ass said:


> ^^Thank u.  i just get frustrated when people act as if a bit of test year round is the end of the world.  my best friend works at a health clinic and oversees the bloodwork of hundreds of hormone users including several pro bodybuilders.  so im not talking out my ass when i say 250mg of test isn't bad for ur health.  at the most, in sensitive individuals, blood pressure may be slightly raised and HDL may be slightly lowered and LDL raised.  this is easily solved by cardio, increasing healthy fats, and losing bodyfat (if you're 12% or more)



See the problem isn't with blood work, it's having to inject test for the rest of our lives.

For some it's not a problem. For others, like just starting out, they need some time to see where they're headed with this.

Some guys might do a few cycles and not cycle for years. It takes a special breed to do this for life.

If someone stays on for a period of time and figures it's not for them then realize they possibly can't have kids or they can't get their natty levels back up, it's to late then they are stuck on.

Things change as we get older and priorities become different. 

That's why it's not a good idea to suggest staying on for someone who doesn't know the ins and outs of what we do as far as the drugs go. When suggesting that someone stays on, all the facts should be presented to them.

Of course it doesn't happen to everyone but it does happen.

H


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## Magical (Aug 12, 2015)

HDH said:


> See the problem isn't with blood work, it's having to inject test for the rest of our lives.
> 
> For some it's not a problem. For others, like just starting out, they need some time to see where they're headed with this.
> 
> ...



Nicely put. This was all I was getting at. Im on TRT due to low natty levels, and I love it. But its just not good advice to tell someone to stay on forever when they havent cycled before.


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## Beefcake (Aug 12, 2015)

Why not just do Test E and Dbol for a kickstart?  Or my favorite is Test E, dbol kick and Deca/NPP for a bulk cycle.


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## gymrat827 (Aug 12, 2015)

beefcake said:


> why not just do test e and dbol for a kickstart?  Or my favorite is test e, dbol kick and deca/npp for a bulk cycle.



this>>>>>>>>


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Again, wrong
> 
> 10char


please tell me more about how u can keep a supraphysiological amount of muscle after coming off supraphysiological amounts of hormones.  should be good!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 12, 2015)

Bust My Ass said:


> please tell me more about how u can keep a supraphysiological amount of muscle after coming off supraphysiological amounts of hormones.  should be good!



I told you in the other thread and, yes, it was very good. I quite enjoyed it.


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 12, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I told you in the other thread and, yes, it was very good. I quite enjoyed it.


all u said was 'ur wrong' without any explanation why.  because u dont have one.  u had hardly any muscle on your frame when u started that is why u kept gains.  or ur confusing fat gain with muscle retention haha


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 12, 2015)

Bust My Ass said:


> all u said was 'ur wrong' without any explanation why.  because u dont have one.  u had hardly any muscle on your frame when u started that is why u kept gains.  or ur confusing fat gain with muscle retention haha



Ummmm, obviously you didn't go back and read the thread after I responded to you the second time. I'll let you go read it before you make a further ass of yourself


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2015)

35 lbs in 8 weeks is a tough assignment. Not impossible, but not necessary either. I think you should continue to run some test, keep dieting for those eight weeks, of course training and conditioning is important, knock your BF level down a couple of more notches, then run some tren A with the  test for another 8 weeks. Now we are talking 16 weeks total to drop that 35 lbs and you will look fantastic!


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