# natty test question



## creekrat (Aug 24, 2012)

I know that our natural test levels drop as the day goes on.  I work graveyards and I would venture an educated guess that your natural test levels change according to one's sleep patterns.  The only kicker is that on Fridays and Saturdays I sleep at night. Just curious on any thoughts that y'all may have on how that may effect my test levels


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## Bullseye Forever (Aug 24, 2012)

how old are you brother?


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## creekrat (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm 29, been sleeping like crap, memory has gone to shit, libido has dropped off dramatically,  feel like I'm in a constant state of confusion.  Getting in to the doc for bloods.


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## Bullseye Forever (Aug 24, 2012)

yea i would get my total test,free test and estradiol checked,low or high estradiol can cause the same symptoms as low test,that way you will know,you are still to young for your natty test levels to be low


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## creekrat (Aug 24, 2012)

Forgot to mention that I had a vericocele removed pre puberty and apparently it was a large one that affected that specific testicle


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## DF (Aug 24, 2012)

Your screwed up sleeping patterns will definitely have an effect on your test levels.  Like the big man said get a blood test done & see.


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## creekrat (Aug 24, 2012)

Trying to get in today


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## Bullseye Forever (Aug 24, 2012)

creekrat said:


> Trying to get in today



keep us updated bud


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## creekrat (Aug 24, 2012)

Went to see the doc today and while checking in his nurse, whom I know, asks what's going on so I tell her and she says hold on a minute. Doesn't check with the doc but brings me back paperwork for labs and says I'll see you any time Monday.  I fuckin love knowing people in the right places.


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## Get Some (Aug 25, 2012)

Good job, see if they can check your serum IGF-1 levels as well. Because IGF-1 levels are highest during sleep and if you're sleeping like crap you may have that working against you.


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## Tilltheend (Aug 27, 2012)

Your test levels fluctuate throughout the day as it is. The products we use throughout the day, the food we eat, to how we feel all has an impact on our testosterone levels.


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## creekrat (Aug 27, 2012)

Ok guys.  Went to the doc today and was a bit disappointed.  They only tested my test and PSA levels.  Test was 327 and PSA was 0.8.  Doc said that everything was gtg and I presented him with my research in that 327 was within the normal range but almost half of what the average 30 yoa male should have.  Immediately he said "Ok, let's get you some testosterone."  He is starting me at 200mg every 2 weeks and making me come in for my injections.  After 3 pins he will retest the bloods, going to get the estradiol, igf-1,etc, for that one.  Once we establish an average or high normal range he will let me self inject.  He is a nurse practitioner so he can only write a script for 30 days at a time  but he is very open to any and all suggestions i have as far as my treatment goes.


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## Tilltheend (Aug 27, 2012)

Thats good to hear creek atleast its a start, I'm sure your dose will get increased I would shoot for 200mg EW instead of E2W.


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## creekrat (Aug 27, 2012)

The nurse injected with 1cc of 200 cyp ventro glute.  I think she wants to be a chef instead.  Was kind of like Emeril Lagasse.  Stuck the pin in and was like BAM! 2 seconds or less to inject


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## 03ACE (Aug 28, 2012)

LMAO Creek! Sorry to laugh at your pain. You are actually in a pretty good situation right now though. Do like he says, let him get you dialed in (mine was pleased to see me at ~700 on the day of my injection), and then when he lets you self inject, the only thing I would change would be the dose frequency, from EOW to 1x or 2x per week. 

Not to contradict Till, but I would roll with as little Test as you need to feel good. Don't get caught up comparing doses with other people or worrying about the numbers (dosage or total Test). I am at about 120-130mg a week broken into 2 injections and the wife is asking if I am taking too much...lol. Not because I am ripped like a lot of the guys (and girls!) here, but because she can't change clothes, take a shower, or bend over in the kitchen without me dragging her to bed  I know some guys need 200 or even 300 a week to feel their best. I don't. 

At any rate, I hope your doc gets you dialed in quick, and you feel lots better! Oh, as far as the 30 day script, tell him you need to order 90 days at a time through your insurer's mail order program. He should be able to have an MD colleague hook that up for you.


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## Pikiki (Aug 28, 2012)

Ace has gave you a nice and deatailed advice, very smart tho. Follow the Dr`s protocol till you can pin. I do only pins of 125mgs 2x week and IM feeling great. Not everyone needs the same amount of test to feel or get better.


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## Bullseye Forever (Aug 28, 2012)

Creek in my experience,200mg every 2 weeks is gonna have you on a rollar coaster ride with your hormones!!! trust me i know,i started that way to,and man it turned into a nightmare,once you get an injection the test peaks at about 72 hours and maybe rise a little more,but by the end of that week you are at the bottom again,and i dicussed with my endo of injecting 100mg/week instead of 200mg twice a week,i told him i was up and down emotionally with my hormone response,the first half of the 1st week i was great then it tapered off,and he worked with me and got to injecting me once a week which helped a bunch and i finally leveled out,i would talk to him and see what he says


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## creekrat (Aug 28, 2012)

Got him to budge on everything but that bullseye.  Told him that when he lets me self inject that I was going to do it twice a week for that reason.


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## Rip (Aug 29, 2012)

I just started doing that recently. Now that i know i can get syringes on the internet, i don't have to sort about going through the prescribed syringes so fast. 
I'm doing 100mg twice/week and I'm think I'm noticing a difference. 
My primary Dr. Won't prescribe AIs so i got some from a clinic through the net. The ignorance is  sickening. She thinks my E is normal w/o AI's.


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## Rip (Aug 29, 2012)

I just started doing that recently. Now that i know i can get syringes on the internet, i don't have to worry about going through the prescribed syringes so fast. 
I'm doing 100mg twice/week and I'm think I'm noticing a difference. 
My primary Dr. Won't prescribe AIs so i got some from a clinic through the net. The ignorance is  sickening. She thinks my E is normal w/o AI's.


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## eatspinach (Aug 29, 2012)

Did you have your E levels tested since you've been on trt? I'm sure you need them anyway but curious to know if they are bald-face denying you AI's in spite of your levels. If so what are they?


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## Rip (Aug 29, 2012)

Funny you should ask...At one point, my nipples were sore and sensitive. My girlfriend would accidentally bump them or lay her head against my chest and I flew through the roof. LOL. I kept telling the Dr, but she said the specialist who trained her said that AI's aren't necessary. At one point she said to just stop taking the TESt for a while. Then, after complaining alot, she finally broke dawn and prescribed 4 anastozole, total, to take one per week for 4 weeks. I couldn't believe it. I took 2/week instead. Then I bought some liquid anastrozole from a place through the internet, called "ChemOne," that sells research chemicals. it finally went back to normal. 
Recently, I went back to getting my TEST from a clinic in Florida that costs an arm and a leg. They prescribed Test Prop 1ml 3x/week, 1mg anastrozole, 2x/week, and 10mg tamoxifen, 2x/week, but I'm running out. it's super expensive.  I think they cater to older, rich guys, who fly in to get their check up and a new script every once and a while. I can't keep up that expense. 
Right now, I'm taking 100mg of TEST E two times/week
I figured that i wanted to at least find a place to get the AI's, Then, I can take the prescribed TEST, or buy somewhere else.
BTW, I just had bloodwork done
Total TESt: 853
FREE TEST: 186
E: 29
What do you think?


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## DF (Aug 29, 2012)

Rip said:


> Funny you should ask...At one point, my nipples were sore and sensitive. My girlfriend would accidentally bump them or lay her head against my chest and I flew through the roof. LOL. I kept telling the Dr, but she said the specialist who trained her said that AI's aren't necessary. At one point she said to just stop taking the TESt for a while. Then, after complaining alot, she finally broke dawn and prescribed 4 anastozole, total, to take one per week for 4 weeks. I couldn't believe it. I took 2/week instead. Then I bought some liquid anastrozole from a place through the internet, called "ChemOne," that sells research chemicals. it finally went back to normal.
> Recently, I went back to getting my TEST from a clinic in Florida that costs an arm and a leg. They prescribed Test Prop 1ml 3x/week, 1mg anastrozole, 2x/week, and 10mg tamoxifen, 2x/week, but I'm running out. it's super expensive.  I think they cater to older, rich guys, who fly in to get their check up and a new script every once and a while. I can't keep up that expense.
> Right now, I'm taking 100mg of TEST E two times/week
> I figured that i wanted to at least find a place to get the AI's, Then, I can take the prescribed TEST, or buy somewhere else.
> ...



Those levels dont look bad.  Some would like their E a bit lower, but i'd go by how you feel ect...  Buying you r AI from research co's are fine as long as they are good anyway.  As far as buying other things that you need for you trt.  Stick around make posts/friends & you'll find what you need.


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## eatspinach (Aug 29, 2012)

RiP - Have you called around locally to see if you can get a local endorinologist to work with you? Transfer your trt program?  I go to a gym where the doctor sees you at the gym after bloodwork and sets you up on a program for weightloss/trt. I'm prescribed metformin, thyroid, phentermine, and soon testosterone and a-dex after final bloodwork comes back. It costs $400 for 1st month and $167/month after that(gym fees included). Of course I have to buy my scripts at a compounding pharmacy but test is $67 dollars for 10ml of cyp. I don't know how that compares to your expenses though. This may be too much for some if you rely on your insurance (I don't have any). Not sure how that works for you.


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## 03ACE (Aug 29, 2012)

Rip, I was in a similar boat but my doc was just ignorant, not negligent. He just looked at his lab's reference ranges for E2, adn since mine was in there, he was like "looks great!". My E2 was 47.... Their ref range for males says 43-53? I have NO idea WTF that is about. I was taking 100mg/wk of test then. I went to 150/wk and my E2 was at 88! So I said the hell with it, changed to 60mg 2x/wk and added Liquidex @ .25ml 2x/wk the day after injection. My TT on the day of injection at my last checkup was 695 with E2 of 18. Much better!


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## Rip (Aug 30, 2012)

My E was 29 a week ago...I'm wondering if that's too high?
If it is, what should I do? Increase the Anastrozole?
I'm taking 1mg anastrozole 2x/week, and 10mg tamoxifen 2x/week


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## OCDude (Sep 3, 2012)

This has got me thinking.... The more I look back over the past year, the more I recognize symptoms of Low T. My last labs came in at 403 total Test (range was 348-1197). And that was at 9am, supposedly test levels decrease during the day. So by the time sexy time rolls around at night, I'm more or less apethetic at times. Damn, wish I'd thought about this before starting my cycle, could have gotten tested a couple more times to take to my doctor. I know I'm still within a "normal" range but its certainly on the low end for a 33 year old. Guess I'll revisit this a couple months after PCT and see where I landed.


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## creekrat (Sep 3, 2012)

OC, I know the average for a 30 year old is 620


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## OCDude (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah that's what I was reading last night. I figure I'm low enough to make a case for it with the right doc. Not sure how my GP would feel. Not that I'd do this, but could sabotage my own PCT and then my natty numbers would be F'd enough to get his attention LOL. But then he's going to question how I gained 20 pounds in 6 months!


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