# Nolva on cycle



## Sickman (Oct 11, 2020)

I am taking 500mg Test E a week. I'm also taking .5 arimidex e3d. But I'm noticing some nipple sensitivity. I'm getting bloodwork done tomorrow to get my e2 checked. If it comes back high, should I just increase my ai or should I/can I take some nolva on top of it? I dont want to crash my e2 and I am doing anything different until my labs come back, I just figured this might be an option.


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## joeyirish777 (Oct 12, 2020)

Just wait for the results. its best to have your estrogen a little high on cycle then low. 

Be prepared to get follow up labs to see how well the AI takes your e2 down. this will help with future cycles.

As for adding Nolva to that, its pretty dangerous if you accidentally tank your e2 while also having a SERM in your bloodstream. tanking e2 is bad enough. Someone more knowledgable then me should answer that I hope tho.


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## Megatron28 (Oct 12, 2020)

I would wait a few more days and get your lab results.  They usually get turned around pretty fast.  Then you can tweak things based on data.

If you want to have an "insurance policy" against gyno while on cycle, I would recommend Tamoxifen over Nolva.  It does a better job of blocking estrogen at the breast tissue receptors.


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## joeyirish777 (Oct 12, 2020)

Megatron28 said:


> I would wait a few more days and get your lab results.  They usually get turned around pretty fast.  Then you can tweak things based on data.
> 
> If you want to have an "insurance policy" against gyno while on cycle, I would recommend Tamoxifen over Nolva.  It does a better job of blocking estrogen at the breast tissue receptors.



isn't nolvadex the brand name for tamoxifen?


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## Joliver (Oct 12, 2020)

Megatron28 said:


> I would wait a few more days and get your lab results.  They usually get turned around pretty fast.  Then you can tweak things based on data.
> 
> If you want to have an "insurance policy" against gyno while on cycle, I would recommend Tamoxifen over Nolva.  It does a better job of blocking estrogen at the breast tissue receptors.



Mega has been in the game at a high level for a long time. Dollars to doughnuts he meant Raloxifene and not tamoxifen...and that would be the right answer. Raloxifene is better than tamoxifen...better binding...doesn't act like estrogen in any other tissues.

I'll give my advice which is to take the tamoxifen. It has a long terminal elimination half life of 5-7 days. On drol, I can dose nolva once every other day and be fine. 

At 20mg eod, it's a decent insurance policy against runaway e2. Especially since the AI change would take a few weeks to correct any abnormal spikes in e2.


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## joeyirish777 (Oct 12, 2020)

I figured he meant something else. Megatron is a wizard no doubt.


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## Sickman (Oct 12, 2020)

Thanks for the input guys. I got my bloodwork done a few hours ago, results within 2 days. Ill let you guys know what it says.


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## Megatron28 (Oct 13, 2020)

Yes!  Raloxifene!  Sorry about typing that up wrong.  I could hear it in my head lol.  I need to slow down and edit better.  I feel bad.  

Thanks Joliver


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## HollyWoodCole (Oct 13, 2020)

I typically overdo it when it comes to Nolva on cycle and end up crashing my E2.  Then my strength tank for a week or so, but comes back nicely when I come off of the Nolva.


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## Tatlifter (Oct 13, 2020)

Very good advice given above!

Ill Add that I couldnt get adex dialed in like I can with aromasin but It's probably an independent body thing.


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## Joliver (Oct 13, 2020)

I've seen it a couple of times in this thread, and I want to clarify the SERM/E2 relationship. A SERM will NOT crash your estrogen levels. It is a competitive binding agent. The estrogen receptors are key/lock mechanisms, and when estrogen is present, the receptor is active and guys will get gyno and other sides. 

SERMS (tamoxifen/Raloxifene) are selective estrogen receptor modulators. They have a greater affinity for the estrogen receptor than estrogen itself. They strongly bind, but are inert in regards to effect. So there is no E2 level change as SERMS allow for high estrogen levels with little in the way of gyno sides. They do not alter E2 levels. 

What I believe guys mean when they say SERMS will crash E2 is that overdosing SERMs will make you feel like hammered shit. May **** with your vision too. So there's that.


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## HollyWoodCole (Oct 13, 2020)

Joliver said:


> I've seen it a couple of times in this thread, and I want to clarify the SERM/E2 relationship. A SERM will NOT crash your estrogen levels. It is a competitive binding agent. The estrogen receptors are key/lock mechanisms, and when estrogen is present, the receptor is active and guys will get gyno and other sides.
> 
> SERMS (tamoxifen/Raloxifene) are selective estrogen receptor modulators. They have a greater affinity for the estrogen receptor than estrogen itself. They strongly bind, but are inert in regards to effect. So there is no E2 level change as SERMS allow for high estrogen levels with little in the way of gyno sides. They do not alter E2 levels.
> 
> What I believe guys mean when they say SERMS will crash E2 is that overdosing SERMs will make you feel like hammered shit. May **** with your vision too. So there's that.


Just to make sure I follow along here.....

You're saying that the SERM binds to the estrogen receptor, thereby not allowing the body to absorb/process/use said estrogen, however it is still present in the body.  Therefore, if you take too much of a SERM, estrogen (likely a lot of it) is still present in the body, however the body's ability to absorb said estrogen is greatly reduced by the SERM. 

Sound about right?


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## Joliver (Oct 13, 2020)

HollyWoodCole said:


> Just to make sure I follow along here.....
> 
> You're saying that the SERM binds to the estrogen receptor, thereby not allowing the body to absorb/process/use said estrogen, however it is still present in the body.  Therefore, if you take too much of a SERM, estrogen (likely a lot of it) is still present in the body, however the body's ability to absorb said estrogen is greatly reduced by the SERM.
> 
> Sound about right?



Yes. That's about right. 

That said, SERMs are, by design, breast cancer treatments. So the E2 is still free to knock your dick in the dirt and make you cry while watching rambo last blood...etc. They are usually only good for gyno prevention. Raloxifene is slightly different in that it's breast tissue specific...so E2 is allowed to bind in bones so women don't become slip and fall hip break victims on chemo. That has some benefits in dudes. Ralox is less E2-like and more boob specific. So dudes can get more protection and feel less shitty.... theoretically. 

Also, if you have that high, unbound estrogen and you stop taking the SERM, you'll grab a pair of B-team strip club titties fairly quickly. So if you have an E2 issue, the SERM is just a quick fix while you correct the issue with an AI. 

Most dudes I know use SERMs as a way to avoid getting blood tests every time they have potential e2 issues. SERMs and boner pills will get most guys by a suspected E2 issue while AI is adjusted for the three weeks it generally takes to lower e2 to acceptable ranges.

Using that method and the "titration by tit" method, which is a "crashed e2" test that sees a guy drop all AI and SERMs to see if he gets itchy nipples. If so, SERMs go back in, AI back up with an added dose let week for three weeks. 

Using these methods, most dudes can blood test post cycle only...if they'd like.


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## HollyWoodCole (Oct 13, 2020)

Joliver said:


> Yes. That's about right.
> 
> That said, SERMs are, by design, breast cancer treatments. So the E2 is still free to knock your dick in the dirt and make you cry while watching rambo last blood...etc. They are usually only good for gyno prevention. Raloxifene is slightly different in that it's breast tissue specific...so E2 is allowed to bind in bones so women don't become slip and fall hip break victims on chemo. That has some benefits in dudes. Ralox is less E2-like and more boob specific. So dudes can get more protection and feel less shitty.... theoretically.
> 
> ...


Very nicely written Jol. 

So to make the next leap, you're saying it's wrong to say that you're crashing your E2 with a SERM because it is still present in the system although you can't absorb much of it, correct?


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 13, 2020)

SERM/AI relationship summed up for the uneducated....

Your body a castle. A 1000 man estrogen army with swords is coming to overrun your castle. An AI is like sending out your scout army to kill as many of them as you can before they get in to your castle. 

A SERM is like filling the moat and raising the drawbridge. The estrogen army is still out there, but they can't get in to the castle and cause damage.

Again - there's a bunch of variables, but this is the basics of the difference between and AI and a SERM. 

Bad things happen if you send the calvary AI army instead of the scouts and kill the whole estrogen army. Bad things also happen use to much SERMS and lock the castle up so tight that no air can get in.


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## Joliver (Oct 13, 2020)

HollyWoodCole said:


> Very nicely written Jol.
> 
> So to make the next leap, you're saying it's wrong to say that you're crashing your E2 with a SERM because it is still present in the system although you can't absorb much of it, correct?



Yessir. The estrogen is still there. An AI must be used to correct the levels.


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## Megatron28 (Oct 14, 2020)

DieYoungStrong said:


> SERM/AI relationship summed up for the uneducated....
> 
> Your body a castle. A 1000 man estrogen army with swords is coming to overrun your castle. An AI is like sending out your scout army to kill as many of them as you can before they get in to your castle.
> 
> ...



If I may tweak the analogy slightly (which I rather enjoyed by the way), an AI goes out and stops the estrogen army from ever being born.


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## Sickman (Oct 15, 2020)

My labs said my estradiol was 35 pg/ml. This is in the normal range of 10 to 40. But I've also read men should try to get/keep it between 20-30 on cycle. Is this level ok to stay at or should I slightly increase my AI dose? I don't have gyno or anything but my nipples are sensitive and itch occasionally, and no it's not just in my head lol. Lmk what your opinions are on the results. Thanks guys


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## CJ (Oct 15, 2020)

Sickman said:


> My labs said my estradiol was 35 pg/ml. This is in the normal range of 10 to 40. But I've also read men should try to get/keep it between 20-30 on cycle. Is this level ok to stay at or should I slightly increase my AI dose? I don't have gyno or anything but my nipples are sensitive and itch occasionally, and no it's not just in my head lol. Lmk what your opinions are on the results. Thanks guys



Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but would this be the case where one should use SERMS vs an AI, since his estradiol level is fine, but he's getting specific breast tissue issues? 

SERMS won't knock down his E2, but will help ward off gyno. 

Is my thought process correct here?


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## HollyWoodCole (Oct 15, 2020)

Sickman said:


> My labs said my estradiol was 35 pg/ml. This is in the normal range of 10 to 40. But I've also read men should try to get/keep it between 20-30 on cycle. Is this level ok to stay at or should I slightly increase my AI dose? I don't have gyno or anything but my nipples are sensitive and itch occasionally, and no it's not just in my head lol. Lmk what your opinions are on the results. Thanks guys


Sounds to me like you're barely having an issue, so an ever so slight bump in AI might be in order.  I would avoid the SERM if you don't truly need it.


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## Sickman (Oct 15, 2020)

Taking .5 e3d. What would be a good increase? .5 e2d or eod? Sorry for all the questions, this is my first cycle and I want to have run as smoothly as possible.


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 15, 2020)

Sickman said:


> My labs said my estradiol was 35 pg/ml. This is in the normal range of 10 to 40. But I've also read men should try to get/keep it between 20-30 on cycle. Is this level ok to stay at or should I slightly increase my AI dose? I don't have gyno or anything but my nipples are sensitive and itch occasionally, and no it's not just in my head lol. Lmk what your opinions are on the results. Thanks guys



Your E2 is fine. Get your prolactin levels checked.


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## Megatron28 (Oct 16, 2020)

I wouldn't change your AI dosage.  Your E2 looks really good.  You itchy nips might be psychological.  The more you worry about them the more they are going to itch.


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## FlyingPapaya (Oct 18, 2020)

Don't play with your nipples


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## Sickman (Oct 29, 2020)

Lol It's gotten better, but for awhile there I was getting an OCD like obsession with checking for gyno.


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## Joliver (Nov 2, 2020)

CJ275 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but would this be the case where one should use SERMS vs an AI, since his estradiol level is fine, but he's getting specific breast tissue issues?
> 
> SERMS won't knock down his E2, but will help ward off gyno.
> 
> Is my thought process correct here?



Yessir. This is the ideal situation for a SERM.


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