# So damn tired! Need help!



## Jingajinga (Apr 9, 2019)

Hey everyone new here. I'm currently experiencing a big problem with sleepiness. Here's my background been lifting for 14 yrs 9 years of natty 5 years not so natty. Been competitive for 5 years. Never gets off due to doctor putting me on trt. Currently running 500mg of test e for life. Stats - 33yo weight 125kgs around 15 bf. Now for the past yr n half I been experiencing sleepiness. Now it's to the point where I have 10hrs sleep gets up to go training come back pass out again wheneva I sit down. Anyone here can shed some light on this problem? In the past I always thought it was a e2 problem now I'm not so sure since adex isnt doing jack.


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## Spongy (Apr 9, 2019)

wait...  You inject 500mg test per week as a TRT protocol?  That's a cycle man...

What does your bloodwork say?


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## Jingajinga (Apr 9, 2019)

Decided to do my own thing after my endo told me men dont produce estrogen. Figured at 500mg I'm able to just hold my size. Blood come back fine aside from high liver ezynme. But when I say I'm on 500 who knows the crap from this country is absolutely garbage.


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## Spongy (Apr 9, 2019)

what else are you taking?


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## Texan69 (Apr 9, 2019)

Check your thyroid?
whats your estrogen at? And how often and intense are you training? Carb intake? Other medications? Could be a lot of factors 

when i suddbenly up my dose of test or add compounds I always get sleepy and get the flu but once I pin a few times my body gets used to it. Also when up my adex I get very lethargic. There’s many factors here for you to think about and hopefully narrow down to the cause


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## daddyboul (Apr 10, 2019)

My energy levels are generally based around my diet, have you made any big changes to diet recently?


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## Jin (Apr 10, 2019)

Sounds like high e2. If your gear is a crapshoot maybe your ai is too?

Bloodwork. 

I’m not a conservative use guy, but 500/wk for life is well over my risk/reward limit.


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## Texan69 (Apr 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> Sounds like high e2. If your gear is a crapshoot maybe your ai is too?
> 
> Bloodwork.
> 
> I’m not a conservative use guy, but 500/wk for life is well over my risk/reward limit.



Whats the biggest risk at that level? Heart attack ?


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## notsoswoleCPA (Apr 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> Sounds like high e2. If your gear is a crapshoot maybe your ai is too?
> 
> Bloodwork.
> 
> I’m not a conservative use guy, but 500/wk for life is well over my risk/reward limit.



Hell, I won't even do 500 mg per week of one compound in a cycle these days.    I am lucky that I still respond well to 300 - 400 mg of test during a cycle.


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## rawdeal (Apr 10, 2019)

Jingajinga said:


> Decided to do my own thing after my endo told me men dont produce estrogen . . .



Your Endo's lawyer might be able to defend that statement, but he'd have a hard time explaining why your Endo didn't explain how testosterone can aromatize into estradiol.


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## Jin (Apr 10, 2019)

Texan69 said:


> Whats the biggest risk at that level? Heart attack ?



Over the long term there will likely be damage to the heart and thickening of the heart walls which could lead to heart attack. 

You would most likely suffer some benign prostate enlargement which would affect your quality of life; waking up 3-4 times per night to urinate.


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## Iron1 (Apr 10, 2019)

Also a higher hematocrit and hemoglobin level which could lead to stroke.


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## DieYoungStrong (Apr 10, 2019)

You ever get checked for sleep apnea?


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## Spongy (Apr 10, 2019)

DieYoungStrong said:


> You ever get checked for sleep apnea?



good call.  ain't nothing wrong with a cpap


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## Patriot1405 (Apr 10, 2019)

DieYoungStrong said:


> You ever get checked for sleep apnea?



Was thinking the same. Good call


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## Jingajinga (Apr 10, 2019)

o first of all thx for the replies, yes I have thought about most of the things u guys sugguested. currently doing nothing but test e 500/wk for the past year or 2. never a big user but constantly cruising on the same amount. Had a nasal septum surgery done few years back so I don't think sleep apnea is the problem. As for diet im eating fairly clean n trains 6 days a week thyroid is all good never plays with drugs like T3 T4. never ever had a problem for first 3 years of gear use then shit hit the fan as e2 went off the roof. ever since then I been watching my bloods 3 things is always out of whack. liver, Rbc + E2. Adex worked at first now im on 0.5mg - 1mg eod doesn't do jack. I can never tell if its too high or too low since im one of those guys that never gets sides cepts for this sleeping issue( most the time the bloods e2 is on the high side). so what u guys reakon should I up the adex or change to 300mg/wk primo for a while?


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 10, 2019)

Adex eod? Seems a bit a extreme....
I'm currently on 1g test and take 1mg adex every 5days

Find a new adex supplier....that shxt sounds bunk as fuk


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## Texan69 (Apr 10, 2019)

Jingajinga said:


> o first of all thx for the replies, yes I have thought about most of the things u guys sugguested. currently doing nothing but test e 500/wk for the past year or 2. never a big user but constantly cruising on the same amount. Had a nasal septum surgery done few years back so I don't think sleep apnea is the problem. As for diet im eating fairly clean n trains 6 days a week thyroid is all good never plays with drugs like T3 T4. never ever had a problem for first 3 years of gear use then shit hit the fan as e2 went off the roof. ever since then I been watching my bloods 3 things is always out of whack. liver, Rbc + E2. Adex worked at first now im on 0.5mg - 1mg eod doesn't do jack. I can never tell if its too high or too low since im one of those guys that never gets sides cepts for this sleeping issue( most the time the bloods e2 is on the high side). so what u guys reakon should I up the adex or change to 300mg/wk primo for a while?




What is your e2 levels at last time you got bloods? Also consider giving blood if your RBC is high, just a smart thing to do. And I would not switch to primo 
youve been on a cycle dose for a year or two you said so may consider coming down for a few months and giving body a rest 
at least coming down to 250-300mg a week.

Another dumb question, how much water are you drinking? Maybe too much or not enough? If your training hard little things here and there could be draining your energy. Me personally if I am dehydrated even slightly I get sleepy as heck. Just another thing to think about


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 10, 2019)

Also do you donate blood or take any type of vasodilator? (I.e. cialis)
Might wanna start doing both if your gonna run that dose for the long run. These always better helped me keep bloods in check.


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## JuiceTrain (Apr 10, 2019)

But if you've been at 500mg for the past two years I'd start by lowering the dose to an actual trt level for a few months.


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## Texan69 (Apr 10, 2019)

Do you regularly check your blood pressure?


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## snake (Apr 10, 2019)

Reading all this and if it were me, I'd reboot the system. Drop down to a real TRT dose of 150-200 Test for 3 months. Then get your blood work done. If all is good, then work back up. I doubt you'll take this advice but there you have it.


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## automatondan (Apr 10, 2019)

Jingajinga said:


> o first of all thx for the replies, yes I have thought about most of the things u guys sugguested. currently doing nothing but test e 500/wk for the past year or 2. never a big user but constantly cruising on the same amount. Had a nasal septum surgery done few years back so I don't think sleep apnea is the problem. As for diet im eating fairly clean n trains 6 days a week thyroid is all good never plays with drugs like T3 T4. never ever had a problem for first 3 years of gear use then shit hit the fan as e2 went off the roof. ever since then I been watching my bloods 3 things is always out of whack. liver, Rbc + E2. Adex worked at first now im on 0.5mg - 1mg eod doesn't do jack. I can never tell if its too high or too low since im one of those guys that never gets sides cepts for this sleeping issue( most the time the bloods e2 is on the high side). so what u guys reakon should I up the adex or change to 300mg/wk primo for a while?



Couple things I am noticing...

One, sleep apnea does not have to be from a deviated septum, a significant amount of time, it is due from our necks having too much girth because of our larger size. So, you could still have sleep apnea.

Second, I'm noticing you might (potentially) be a little scattered and might be lacking in areas that if you are doing something as extreme as cruising at 500 mg/wk for life, you should really have sorted out and dialed in. 

You should, and can easily choose an Ai dose, and then get blood work done 4 weeks later to see where you are. This would answer a whole lot of questions for us. It would answer whether the test e is good, your Ai, where your hemacrit is at, how your tyroid levels are, etc... You are making assumptions based on how you feel, but don't know anything until you pick a course, stick to it, and then get blood work done. Everything else is just speculation and kind of pointless. Please dont take offense to what I am saying, I am honestly trying to help you.

One last thing, you say you "eat pretty clean." I don't know you, only what you tell us... But it made me wonder where your diet is at? As in, are you keeping track of your TDEE and do you have a set plan for your macros and caloric intake based on whatever your goals are? Are you prepping your food ahead of time? This is basic stuff that should be non-negotiable and a huge priority if you are taking this pretty significant health risk.

I'm just sensing some foolishness here....


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## Chillinlow (Apr 10, 2019)

JuiceTrain said:


> Adex eod? Seems a bit a extreme....
> I'm currently on 1g test and take 1mg adex every 5days
> 
> Find a new adex supplier....that shxt sounds bunk as fuk



Everyones different I run .5 ED to keep inline on TRT and that’s what 90 percent of the guys running TRT are at to stay inline my Doctor as told me.


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## Texan69 (Apr 10, 2019)

Jin said:


> Over the long term there will likely be damage to the heart and thickening of the heart walls which could lead to heart attack.
> 
> You would most likely suffer some benign prostate enlargement which would affect your quality of life; waking up 3-4 times per night to urinate.



Jin how long does it take for that damage to set in and is it permanent or can be reverse of take time off or at least on TRT dose. sounds  like the OP needs to really weigh the risk vs reward like you mentioned 
it scares me cause sometimes i go 6 months at 500mg. I can relate with the OP sometimes it’s hard to come down once you’ve been riding high for a while ecespecially if you have an addictive personality. But st some point you gotta put health first


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## Jin (Apr 11, 2019)

Texan69 said:


> Jin how long does it take for that damage to set in and is it permanent or can be reverse of take time off or at least on TRT dose. sounds  like the OP needs to really weigh the risk vs reward like you mentioned
> it scares me cause sometimes i go 6 months at 500mg. I can relate with the OP sometimes it’s hard to come down once you’ve been riding high for a while ecespecially if you have an addictive personality. But st some point you gotta put health first



The issue is there have been no studies on this kind of long term, higher dose use in countries other than Italy and Brazil. And even those studies are not very encompassing. 

This is what I was told by a senior mod at another board who is a medical professional with access to many medical research papers that are limited to such professionals. 

You are playing with Fire, we're just not sure how hot the flame is. 

Moderation is the safest course of action in most instances in life. High doses should be limited to shorter runs and moderate doses shouldn’t be used continuously IMO. 

My guess is we are talking years and years of use before you see those long term effects. 

6 months at 500 isn’t going to kill you. 6 years at 500 could end up causing some issues. This is all speculation by me. My best guess from what I know.


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## Texan69 (Apr 11, 2019)

Jin said:


> The issue is there have been no studies on this kind of long term, higher dose use in countries other than Italy and Brazil. And even those studies are not very encompassing.
> 
> This is what I was told by a senior mod at another board who is a medical professional with access to many medical research papers that are limited to such professionals.
> 
> ...




Makes sense, plus it could probably vary from one person to the next just like anything else
thanks Jin


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## Jingajinga (Apr 14, 2019)

thx again for the reply guys. Im taking all your advise in consideration. I will get another blood test done soon. so from my understanding liver thyroids kidney e2 can lead to sleepiness am I missing anything else? regarding to donate blood no chance they will take it when they see me lol. o and when I say im on 500mg a week who know what im really on the gear here is so garbage most of it just diluted oil.... but yeah ur right it is time to type it down see how my body reacted.


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## hulksmash (Apr 14, 2019)

I have spent 12 YEARS researching wakefulness because I want a cure for myself.

Everyone here gave the usual answers that did nothing for me 

*Orexin, Histamine H3-Receptor antagonism, Noradrenergic variables like norepinephrine, Neuronal Ca2+, Brain catecholamines, etc* is where you should look.


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## Texan69 (Apr 15, 2019)

Jingajinga said:


> thx again for the reply guys. Im taking all your advise in consideration. I will get another blood test done soon. so from my understanding liver thyroids kidney e2 can lead to sleepiness am I missing anything else? regarding to donate blood no chance they will take it when they see me lol. o and when I say im on 500mg a week who know what im really on the gear here is so garbage most of it just diluted oil.... but yeah ur right it is time to type it down see how my body reacted.



Why wouldn’t they let you donate blood?


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## HollyWoodCole (Apr 15, 2019)

Texan69 said:


> Why wouldn’t they let you donate blood?


His crit level is likely 70% by now....... lol


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## Jingajinga (Apr 21, 2019)

Why wouldn't they let me donate blood? wat a weird question? its causes they don't accept anyone that touches needles here.... in their eyes bodybuilders is same as ice meth junkies. Its not like I can freaken hide my 21+ inches arms as well..


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## Trump (Apr 21, 2019)

Your not meant to tell them 



Jingajinga said:


> Why wouldn't they let me donate blood? wat a weird question? its causes they don't accept anyone that touches needles here.... in their eyes bodybuilders is same as ice meth junkies. Its not like I can freaken hide my 21+ inches arms as well..


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## Texan69 (Apr 22, 2019)

Jingajinga said:


> Why wouldn't they let me donate blood? wat a weird question? its causes they don't accept anyone that touches needles here.... in their eyes bodybuilders is same as ice meth junkies. Its not like I can freaken hide my 21+ inches arms as well..



Ya you don’t have to tell them...not like your elevated test levels are going to affect the blood 
They are more asking about needle use for methesds that re use or share needles 
but the blood is tested anyway before it’s given to a paiteint


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