# How well does tren maintain muscle?



## Rage Strength (Aug 16, 2012)

How good could 4-500mg tren ace a week maintain muscle at an extreme caloric deficit? Let's say I run it for 10-12 weeks, could I go from around 20% bodyfat down to 12%? I know diet is everything, but I am questioning how well this compound maintains muscle while at deficit? I'd eat high protein, low fat, and moderately low carbs. I hear that some have gained while on it at a deficit. I'd appreciate input and experiences.


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 16, 2012)

Rage Strength said:


> How good could 4-500mg tren ace a week maintain muscle at an extreme caloric deficit? Let's say I run it for 10-12 weeks, could I go from around 20% bodyfat down to 12%? I know diet is everything, but I am questioning how well this compound maintains muscle while at deficit? I'd eat high protein, low fat, and moderately low carbs. I hear that some have gained while on it at a deficit. I'd appreciate input and experiences.



I believe this is going to be a great thread. We'll get some real life experiences as well as what the science tells us should happen. I suppose one factor is how extreme and what and how many calories we're starting with.
You've heard that some have gained what while at a caloric deficit? Strength? Lean muscle mass?


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## coltmc4545 (Aug 16, 2012)

So this is my personal experience...

My last cycle I ran ace at 350 a week. I went on a 500 calorie deficit and cut out a TON of carbs. My goal was a recomp which is exactly what happened with zero cardio. I started the cycle at 206 12-13% bf and ended the cycle at 206 and 8% bf. even with a caloric amd carb deficiency, I was stronger then I've ever been in my life. Just my experience. Not saying everyone will have the same experience either. Also IMO, I don't think people should rely so much on gear to make such drastic changes to thier body's like dropping 6-8% bf. it did happen for me but there were a few weeks where I ate like shit and still lost. I feel good about the cycle and the changes to my body don't get me wrong. I think I would feel alot better about it if I had done it on no gear with a strict diet and cardio regimine though.


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 16, 2012)

The new vet is flexing on me already? :-*:->


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## beasto (Aug 16, 2012)

Rage it's a very realistic possibility to drop a good amount of body fat with Tren Ace with a little cardio @ your target heart rate 45 mins 5 days a week. Riding on what the new vet Colt said cutting down on carbs and adding a little carb cycling in should also help. I love Tren ace and think for you goals you should run it a little past 12 weeks, but that's just my opinion I understand that it's your cycle.


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## SuperBane (Aug 16, 2012)

I thought it was hard to do cardio while running Tren?


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## coltmc4545 (Aug 16, 2012)

Superman said:


> I thought it was hard to do cardio while running Tren?



For most people it is. Although I've seen a few with no problems whatsoever. I think if I would of tried doing cardio my heart would of exploded. Walking to the drinking fountain and screwing my girl were more then enough for me.


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## Four1Thr33 (Aug 16, 2012)

My cardio experance on 500mg tren E and 400mg tpp where actually not so bad
I just stuck to 1 hour fasted cardio (low intensity) and never had any issues
But let me tell u I fucked for ever and almost passed out a few times lol


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## Hockeyplaya18 (Aug 16, 2012)

I hate ya'll for this thread, makes me want to run Tren for my second cycle  Not allowed


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## Hurt (Aug 16, 2012)

Hockeyplaya18 said:


> I hate ya'll for this thread, makes me want to run Tren for my second cycle  Not allowed



You can do it...I am.


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## Hockeyplaya18 (Aug 16, 2012)

Haha, this is very true bro. I think the main reason I lean away from it as my second cycle is the Cardio (Hockey) thing....How has it been affecting your cardio??!!?


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## jennerrator (Aug 16, 2012)

coltmc4545 said:


> So this is my personal experience...
> 
> My last cycle I ran ace at 350 a week. I went on a 500 calorie deficit and cut out a TON of carbs. My goal was a recomp which is exactly what happened with zero cardio. I started the cycle at 206 12-13% bf and ended the cycle at 206 and 8% bf. even with a caloric amd carb deficiency, I was stronger then I've ever been in my life. Just my experience. Not saying everyone will have the same experience either. Also IMO, I don't think people should rely so much on gear to make such drastic changes to thier body's like dropping 6-8% bf. it did happen for me but there were a few weeks where I ate like shit and still lost. I feel good about the cycle and the changes to my body don't get me wrong. I think I would feel alot better about it if I had done it on no gear with a strict diet and cardio regimine though.



My question is then, can you maintain that 8% after coming off? I have a real issue with using gear, stims etc...to achieve a goal that's not maintainable. Not saying what you did isn't, but in general.


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## Four1Thr33 (Aug 16, 2012)

After my 18 week tren run with basically zero sides I don't see me running anything else ... But I still think its odd that I never notice my gear.   I never feel different


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 16, 2012)

What's left to say here? Tren is GOD


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## Bicepticon (Aug 16, 2012)

I think its possible! All though you need fats to burn fat, especially, if your going to be in ketosis.


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## Hurt (Aug 16, 2012)

Hockeyplaya18 said:


> Haha, this is very true bro. I think the main reason I lean away from it as my second cycle is the Cardio (Hockey) thing....How has it been affecting your cardio??!!?



I start in a week and a half...



Jenner said:


> My question is then, can you maintain that 8% after coming off? I have a real issue with using gear, stims etc...to achieve a goal that's not maintainable. Not saying what you did isn't, but in general.



Anything you achieve beyond your natural genetic potential isn't maintainable if you're off for a long enough time.  If you can maintain your gains indefinitely after coming off, you probably could've made them naturally...


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## jennerrator (Aug 16, 2012)

Hurt said:


> I start in a week and a half...
> 
> 
> 
> Anything you achieve beyond your natural genetic potential isn't maintainable if you're off for a long enough time.  If you can maintain your gains indefinitely after coming off, you probably could've made them naturally...



I will agree that if you don't go to extremes it's easier to maintain as I seem to have no issues but how would I fair if I stopped indefinitely...who knows


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## Oenomaus (Aug 16, 2012)

Superman said:


> I thought it was hard to do cardio while running Tren?



Cardio on Tren is difficult, not impossible. It probably would have been much less tiresom had it not been my first cycle.


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## Get Some (Aug 16, 2012)

it's really a catch 22 Jen because you can work really hard while on tren and then when it's over you don't have the drive to maintain that work ethic. OR, you can slack off a bit and still make some gains on tren, but when you come off you have to work harder with less motivation. Either way it's nearly impossible to maintain for any period of time.

But that's exactly why people include tren in pretty much every cycle after the first one 



Jenner said:


> My question is then, can you maintain that 8% after coming off? I have a real issue with using gear, stims etc...to achieve a goal that's not maintainable. Not saying what you did isn't, but in general.


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## Get Some (Aug 16, 2012)

But whose to say where anyones genetic potential is? I would bet that only 0.00000000000000000000001% or less of people in the world have achieved their true genetic potential before using steroids. To be accurate, that would mean that by consuming increased amounts of food, they could not achieve any more muscle mass. 

I also believe that your potential can be shifted with the use of steroids. Yes, I have seen guys who have been huge shrivel up to less than what they were before, but these are extreme cases. Potential breeds desire... increased potential leads to increased desire, etc. Most of us have no desire to ever pass our genetic potenntial as it is or else we'd see a whole bunch of 5'10" dudes walkin around at 280+ lbs and ripped, lol

And you're other point about the gains that you "probably could have made naturally"... that's not a deterrent at all because basically what you are saying is that you can make the same gains as naturally but in a much faster time span and still maintain them. Granted, I know you're not trying to argue against tren, we love that stuff



Hurt said:


> I start in a week and a half...
> 
> 
> 
> Anything you achieve beyond your natural genetic potential isn't maintainable if you're off for a long enough time.  If you can maintain your gains indefinitely after coming off, you probably could've made them naturally...


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## RowdyBrad (Aug 16, 2012)

Nice post GS. Tren is one of those that I respect a huge amount. I won't be using it on my 2nd, but man does it sound like a fun ride.


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## Trust (Aug 17, 2012)

This is exactly what Tren was originally made for. It was made to have cattle grow big while giving them less food.

DIET IS THE KEY, diet is stronger than any gear you can take.  I lost 25-27 pounds on a 500 cal deficit diet, while on test 600/w and deca 400/w. Now im on PCT and still losing water weight. I figure ill end up with a 30 pound loss, went from 26 to +/- 13% bf, over 16 weeks.

I agree wt Jenner, u should aim to get a good diet habit, more then making a severe cal deficit diet. Better lose slow but steady and be able to maintain when ur down to what u wanna be..

edit: I love Tren!


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## Jada (Aug 17, 2012)

Dame that Tren is fking tempting!


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 17, 2012)

Trust said:


> This is exactly what Tren was originally made for. It was made to have cattle grow big while giving them less food.
> 
> DIET IS THE KEY, diet is stronger than any gear you can take.  I lost 25-27 pounds on a 500 cal deficit diet, while on test 600/w and deca 400/w. Now im on PCT and still losing water weight. I figure ill end up with a 30 pound loss, went from 26 to +/- 13% bf, over 16 weeks.
> 
> ...



I thought Tren was given shortly before slaughter to get more yeild...you know, put on size. I don't think they went through the trouble of giving the cattle implants so they could save money on feeding them? They aren't pets. Synovex is also given to them. They feed those fuckers alot, get 'em on cycle...then its time to face the music.


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 17, 2012)

Jadakiss said:


> Dame that Tren is fking tempting!



Are you a masochist of some sort? Denying yourself this gift. Tren will change your life, brother.


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## coltmc4545 (Aug 17, 2012)

biggerben692000 said:


> I thought Tren was given shortly before slaughter to get more yeild...you know, put on size. I don't think they went through the trouble of giving the cattle implants so they could save money on feeding them? They aren't pets. Synovex is also given to them. They feed those fuckers alot, get 'em on cycle...then its time to face the music.



I hope, if I'm ever slaughtered, they give me massive amounts of tren before they do it.


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## Hurt (Aug 17, 2012)

Get Some said:


> But whose to say where anyones genetic potential is? I would bet that only 0.00000000000000000000001% or less of people in the world have achieved their true genetic potential before using steroids. To be accurate, that would mean that by consuming increased amounts of food, they could not achieve any more muscle mass.
> 
> I also believe that your potential can be shifted with the use of steroids. Yes, I have seen guys who have been huge shrivel up to less than what they were before, but these are extreme cases. Potential breeds desire... increased potential leads to increased desire, etc. Most of us have no desire to ever pass our genetic potenntial as it is or else we'd see a whole bunch of 5'10" dudes walkin around at 280+ lbs and ripped, lol
> 
> And you're other point about the gains that you "probably could have made naturally"... that's not a deterrent at all because basically what you are saying is that you can make the same gains as naturally but in a much faster time span and still maintain them. Granted, I know you're not trying to argue against tren, we love that stuff



haha I never said that anyone achieved their true genetic potential before cycling hormones.  I also never said you couldn't shift your hormonal set-point...this of course is only to a certain degree...if you're on anabolics for years maintaining a mass of say 290 lbs, I don't care how long you're on, you'll shrink down considerably...maybe to 250 instead of 240 or something trivial...case-in-point any IFBB pro that went off for a considerable amt of time, eg Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone, when they retired.  

I think plenty of us have the desire to pass our genetic potential, which is why we use anabolic steroids.  Me, for example...sure I could probably get up to 240 lbs naturally and it would take a while, but would I be able to get down to 4% body fat for competition and maintain a considerable % of that LBM? NO...so I am using anabolic steroids to take me beyond the potential of my body's normal physiology.  And yeah I don't care how much desire you have, if you don't have elite genetics, you can only go so far...do you think Phil Heath just has more desire than amateur bodybuilders? LOL

The point about gains being made naturally wasn't meant to be a deterrent....it's a fact.


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## Hurt (Aug 17, 2012)

biggerben692000 said:


> I thought Tren was given shortly before slaughter to get more yeild...you know, put on size. I don't think they went through the trouble of giving the cattle implants so they could save money on feeding them? They aren't pets. Synovex is also given to them. They feed those fuckers alot, get 'em on cycle...then its time to face the music.



It's utility is mainly during transit times when they couldn't feed the cattle...usually this is just before slaughter.


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## DarksideSix (Aug 17, 2012)

i'm 2 months off my tren cycle and so far have lost zero gains.  only thing i lost was a little bit of strength, but nothing serious.  Tren is king for a reason.


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## Moppy1 (Aug 17, 2012)

I have cut weight while on Tren and actually gotten stronger over 2 months.  Amazing steroid!!!


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## vaper86 (Aug 17, 2012)

Anyone inject Tren at 200mg twice a week as opposed to 50mg ED or 100 EoD?


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## RowdyBrad (Aug 17, 2012)

you talking tren a? i think mon/wed/fri or eod is the way to go.


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## vaper86 (Aug 18, 2012)

Noob mistake Tren E vs Tren A my apologies. Never done Tren was just curious because of all the hype in this thread.


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## TheLupinator (Aug 18, 2012)

Hockeyplaya18 said:


> I hate ya'll for this thread, makes me want to run Tren for my second cycle  Not allowed



This is my second cycle and will be adding tren-e


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## Hurt (Aug 18, 2012)

mlupi319 said:


> This is my second cycle and will be adding tren-e



It's your call bud but I would do tren a on my first run with tren.  With the short ester, if you don't like the way things are going, you can stop and it will clear relatively quickly.  The enanthate ester and you're stuck with the sides for a while until the long ester clears..


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