# 1st trt bloods came in



## PillarofBalance (Jan 23, 2014)

Got my results today. Protocol is 200mg every other week. Yeah I know. Every other week with test cyp is not gonna work. Now I have bloods to prove it. Before trt test was at 236. On trt its 138 lol.  Bloods were taken the day before the shot was due, so 13 days after the last one.

Time to bump the dose!


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## Big Worm (Jan 23, 2014)

Self medicating or with a clinic?  Keep us updated on what you end up with.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 23, 2014)

Big Worm said:


> Self medicating or with a clinic?  Keep us updated on what you end up with.



My primary care. If it was self medicating I would have gone with 500mg per week 

The gear is great though. Watson Test Cyp. Smooth as can be.


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## SAD (Jan 23, 2014)

My dad's pcp is an idiot, too.  Had him started on 100mg test cyp EOW.  I told my dad it was not only NOT going to help, but it was going to make him feel worse.  That's 50mg/week, and spread WAY too far out.  After my dad started coming in with questions he couldn't answer, I told him to just do what I say and let the doctor think he's doing a good job.  He's on 250mg every 8-9 days, and his levels are in the mid 700s now.  GPs are just not up to speed with endo stuff, or most of them I should say.

Now if I can just convince my dad to run a few blasts in between bloodwork....


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## FreeBirdSam (Jan 23, 2014)

SAD said:


> My dad's pcp is an idiot, too.  Had him started on 100mg test cyp EOW.  I told my dad it was not only NOT going to help, but it was going to make him feel worse.  That's 50mg/week, and spread WAY too far out.  After my dad started coming in with questions he couldn't answer, I told him to just do what I say and let the doctor think he's doing a good job.  He's on 250mg every 8-9 days, and his levels are in the mid 700s now.  GPs are just not up to speed with endo stuff, or most of them I should say.
> 
> Now if I can just convince my dad to run a few blasts in between bloodwork....



SAD I have basically the same story with my Dad,  and ironically, its ****ing sad! lol   Doctors are idiots.   Good luck PoB  now find a damn Endo!!!!


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 23, 2014)

samcooke said:


> SAD I have basically the same story with my Dad,  and ironically, its ****ing sad! lol   Doctors are idiots.   Good luck PoB  now find a damn Endo!!!!



He sent me to an endo originally. She offered clomid, test gel or injections. But I would have to go to the office for the injections every other week. I asked why I couldn't do them at home and she said because its a controlled substance. Of course so is the test gel so she lied to me. I said no thanks, left her office and went back to my primary. He agreed to do it but wanted to start me at this. I agreed of course. We scheduled the blood work which as we see sucked and now I go back and we will adjust from there. I talked to him about my history of cycles and everything I have used. He stopped me half way through and said "you obviously know more about this than me." So he is open to my suggestions on where to go from here. My doc and I have a really great relationship, mostly because I have been honest with him. I mentioned 200mg per week not every other and he is fine with that idea. We'll just talk about it. I am optimistic.


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## mrSlate (Jan 23, 2014)

That's awesome PoB you have a doc that's open to communication. 
My doc sent me to an endo who didn't even know what E2 was lol. So I ended up double screwed.


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## GuerillaKilla (Jan 23, 2014)

I will give you free hot beef injections every week if that will shut you the **** up. Yes, I am willing to risk infecting myself with gingervitis to help you out.


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## GuerillaKilla (Jan 23, 2014)

On a serious note I run 200-300 Pfizer cyp every 5 days or so. Feel much better. They started me out with 200 eow too. **** that.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 23, 2014)

GuerillaKilla said:


> I will give you free hot beef injections every week if that will shut you the **** up. Yes, I am willing to risk infecting myself with gingervitis to help you out.



You are the killa to my gorilla <3


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## RedLang (Jan 23, 2014)

POB what about changing dosing? Or are you trying to get as much test as you can through your physician?

EW injections or even every 5 days will produce a much more stable result. Although as for feeling, i dont know whether you would notice the difference.

Allow the test to reach peak levels also helps. I found my test results peaked over a few months. Originally on 100mg EW i was at 600 or so but this number steadily climbed until reaching 1200-1300 over 4 months on the same dosing schedule.


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## GuerillaKilla (Jan 23, 2014)

Doc, I miss you.


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## Rumpy (Jan 23, 2014)

I think I'll just self medicate for a few more years.


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## GuerillaKilla (Jan 23, 2014)

Self medicate and fondle cats.


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## LeanHerm (Jan 23, 2014)

I think it's time for me to see one.  Herm not feeling so good.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 23, 2014)

RedLang said:


> POB what about changing dosing? Or are you trying to get as much test as you can through your physician?
> 
> EW injections or even every 5 days will produce a much more stable result. Although as for feeling, i dont know whether you would notice the difference.
> 
> Allow the test to reach peak levels also helps. I found my test results peaked over a few months. Originally on 100mg EW i was at 600 or so but this number steadily climbed until reaching 1200-1300 over 4 months on the same dosing schedule.



That's good to know. I doubt 100 per week is going to be enough for me to feel normal considering my hsitory. I was feeling damn good at much much higher doses than that.


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## amore169 (Jan 23, 2014)

I'm been pining 300mg weekly for a few years already POB but I started at 200mg EOW like u, but with my Doctor everything need to be proven with blood work which I been doing every 3 months for almost 8-9 years, so little by little my Doctor couldn't believe that my test levels wouldn't go up, instead they'll would drop, but as far as right now everything is been working great. My insurance pays almost 100% of all my TRT medications. Don't get discourage and keep going and prove the Doctor that you need more medication cause of the type of activity you do and he'll be surprise on how much you'll need. Remember this Doctors are not trained to work with TRT patients, your on the right path my friend.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 23, 2014)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Doc, I miss you.



GK, I promise once we usurp power from POB I'll let you feed me HIS poptarts from the UGBB commander's chair


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## GuerillaKilla (Jan 23, 2014)

I would be so happy....


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## gymrat827 (Jan 23, 2014)

at work a few guys know what im up to.....I chat and goto lunch with one VP who's on TRT...they started him at 100mg every other wk, than 200mg every other wk and after enough bitchin to his primary the guy has him on 100mg per wk.  hes on cyp and says he just needs a tad more, but the doc wont up it.  his numbers are ok, but not as good as they should be. 

I keep telling him he's on a hormone roller coaster, which he didnt believe at first, but now does.


i keep tellin him to accept the helping hand and bump it to 150 a wk and he ll be lovin life...and his wife...lol


but he wont do it.  im still working on him tho


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## graniteman (Jan 23, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> He sent me to an endo originally. She offered clomid, test gel or injections. But I would have to go to the office for the injections every other week. I asked why I couldn't do them at home and she said because its a controlled substance. Of course so is the test gel so she lied to me. I said no thanks, left her office and went back to my primary. He agreed to do it but wanted to start me at this. I agreed of course. We scheduled the blood work which as we see sucked and now I go back and we will adjust from there. I talked to him about my history of cycles and everything I have used. He stopped me half way through and said "you obviously know more about this than me." So he is open to my suggestions on where to go from here. My doc and I have a really great relationship, mostly because I have been honest with him. I mentioned 200mg per week not every other and he is fine with that idea. We'll just talk about it. I am optimistic.



A good doc like that is the key or a hrt clinic. That endo shows the problems with endo's and some gp's not knowing the details on hrt. It's not illegal to have a ''controlled'' substance if you have a script. Otherwise anybody on pain meds would be in deep doodoo. 200 per week is what I'm at and it seems to be the average. My pins, hcg, ai and test are all part of the hrt script package.

Speakin a doo doo GK!!


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## transcend2007 (Jan 23, 2014)

I get a script for testosterone from my doc and I like to have that and the packaging it comes in because when I travel as sometime I also have additional "supplements" that I'll put into the prescription labeled vial containers.  Any doc not allowing you to purchase your own meds is a red flag.  The cost variance between Costco and CSV is huge where I live (like 50% at Costco). 

At least your doc will not be able to argue with you at all when it comes to increasing your dosage with the blood test results of an 88 year old man...


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 27, 2014)

So I met with my primary care physician this morning and as expected there was no argument. I explained the half life of cyp makes a 2 week period too long between shots. He asked (for his own info) what would happen if you did 300mg every other week. I explained that the large peak from 300mg followed by a tremendous valley between shots would likely get a simliar result to 200mg.  Or worse because of the sides experienced at the peak like estrogen, oily skin etc. Maybe mood swings too. So we have settled on 100mg every 5 days which I think will be perfect.

He is asking the right questions in evaluating the protocol. He isn't going by just the bloodwork, but by mood, libido, energy levels. All the things that make a 30 something year olds life worth living.  He is looking for a test level around 600 to 800 the day before a shot is due. He is also very open to the information I provide as well as your experiences that I share with him and the things we learn from each other on this board.  Didn't tell him about the board itself of course. 

I love my doctor.


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## ken Sass (Jan 27, 2014)

my trt dose is 200 mg every 7 days. keeps me at 950-1050ng


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 27, 2014)

ken Sass said:


> my trt dose is 200 mg every 7 days. keeps me at 950-1050ng



May wind up there Kenny. Appreciate you sharing the numbers. This is pretty tricky stuff. Our doses are all over the place because apparently hormones are not drugs. Half lives seem to vary person to person.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 27, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> May wind up there Kenny. Appreciate you sharing the numbers. This is pretty tricky stuff. Our doses are all over the place because apparently hormones are not drugs. Half lives seem to vary person to person.



The primary enzyme that metabolizes these compounds varies in levels from person to person. Half lives are not exact numbers, they're averages through various clinical trials and studies. unless you're talking about zero order kinetic drugs which metabolize at a specific rate regardless of the dose given. You also have to take into account what your TRT protocol includes vs others (HCG, AI, DHEA/pregnenolone, which ester, what time of day you do bloods and when you do bloods in relation to TRT dose, etc). It's a very fine balancing act but when you find your sweet spot you'll love it.


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## DF (Jan 27, 2014)

It's good to know that there is a Doc out there that is reasonable.


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## NavyChief (Jan 27, 2014)

Very cool POB. Sounds like I should introduce you to my trt doc. We worked together in the navy. I get 300mg Watson test cyp weekly prescribed. She loves me I think.   That does good at keeping my levels 1200 to 1600 on average.   Cool part is after my last blast my freakin levels were super high. She said as long as we are going down in dose I can still write the script even though my test level was 10, 125.  No shit.
So I got dropped to 200mg weekly until I am back under 1600.   Which will b awhile since I start a blast in a cpl weeks.


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## transcend2007 (Jan 28, 2014)

Congrats POB on a well thought out and executed trt strategy.  It's important that you found a doctor who is actually willing to listen to your feedback as I found trt needs to be managed over time its is not a static take 2 of these and call me in the morning.

Keep us posted on your continued trt journey.


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## Illtemper (Jan 28, 2014)

I wish I could find a doc like pob it navy chief...   Every doc I go to, as soon as you mention HRT there whole attitude changes. A few years ago my primary doc told me my levels at 300 was normal and nothing to think twice about, I was 27 at that time........  

Today I 'm going to an actual HRT clinic they opened up by me.  I'm hoping this is a legit place and not just a scamming bullshit place.....


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 28, 2014)

Illtemper said:


> I wish I could find a doc like pob it navy chief...   Every doc I go to, as soon as you mention HRT there whole attitude changes. A few years ago my primary doc told me my levels at 300 was normal and nothing to think twice about, I was 27 at that time........
> 
> Today I 'm going to an actual HRT clinic they opened up by me.  I'm hoping this is a legit place and not just a scamming bullshit place.....



Two things kept me away from HRT clincs. First, the cost. My insurance covers it thru my doctor, but wouldn't thru a clinic. Second, a lot of those clinics are fly by night. WHat are you gonna do when they close up shop in 3 months?


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## Illtemper (Jan 28, 2014)

Just got back from the HRT clinic which is more like a primary care doc just for men..   So this place seems pretty cool, I don't like the fact that I have to go in once a week for injection but they do all blood work right there in house and told me they can also take over and be my primary care if I want them to be... They do not let you self inject because they want to see everyone to make sure no one has any problems etc...  That I think is just money making bullshit but I'll play along for now....The guy I chatted with said he is an advanced nurse in his words "like a doc but cooler".  One huge plus is they take my insurance which covers everything. Very clean office and examine rooms, nice blood center.  One nice thing is they will do therapeutic phlebotomy if needed right in house.  He also said they check bloods in 4-5wks again to make sure everything is ok and to get dialed in.....

Since ins covers it, I'll go with it for now.  This place actually seems pretty professional and they have 3 locations around Chicago so maybe it is legit....  I did ask about providing deca or hgh and that was a negitive they only deal in providing test hcg and an AI....  Or scripts for common colds and such I guess......

I like the fact that they watch everything blood and health wise for you. I'm hoping once I get dialed in with them after a few months I can go back to my primary doc and show him everything and he can take over so hopefully I can just get vials to take home so I don't have to go in once a week........

I'll give it time and see what happens.


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## jersmith (Feb 17, 2014)

I think a he's end up looking like the Russian weighlifters of the 70's ... muscular but
with a big gut and lots of hair -- and that was just the women


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 14, 2014)

So I had bloods done on the 7th and got my results in the mail today.  I have been on 100mg every 5 days.  Just to recap. Start with 236 total test.  TRT began with 200mg EOW and it dropped my levels to the low 100's.  Changed the dose to 100mg E5D and now my result is a whopping 256.  Estradiol at 23 with AI.  

I'm going to make a follow up appt and tell him I want 250mg every week.  

I think I'm starting to understand why I never saw very good results from the usual 500mg cycles.


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## DF (Apr 14, 2014)

Damn! 256? I just dropped my test last week down to 100mg/5days.  I'm going to get blood work done in a couple weeks & see where my levels are.


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## snake (Apr 16, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> So I had bloods done on the 7th and got my results in the mail today.  I have been on 100mg every 5 days.  Just to recap. Start with 236 total test.  TRT began with 200mg EOW and it dropped my levels to the low 100's.  Changed the dose to 100mg E5D and now my result is a whopping 256.  Estradiol at 23 with AI.
> 
> I'm going to make a follow up appt and tell him I want 250mg every week.
> 
> I think I'm starting to understand why I never saw very good results from the usual 500mg cycles.



Hay PoB,

Everyone is different but 200mg every week gets my TT to about 650-700 but I do my bloods 8 days after my last pin. I am afraid to do it 2 days post injection for fear of it running to high and the Doc saying something. I ran 300mg  for 8 weeks with bloods 8 days out and came back at 1,100, my Doc made mention that its a little too high so I learned.

I wish I could find a bell curve on the TT and its loss over x# of days.


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## SFGiants (Apr 16, 2014)

snake said:


> Hay PoB,
> 
> Everyone is different but 200mg every week gets my TT to about 650-700 but I do my bloods 8 days after my last pin. I am afraid to do it 2 days post injection for fear of it running to high and the Doc saying something. I ran 300mg  for 8 weeks with bloods 8 days out and came back at 1,100, my Doc made mention that its a little too high so I learned.
> 
> I wish I could find a bell curve on the TT and its loss over x# of days.



This is the way to do it it is how I do it when kaiser is doing my tests.

My Doc knows I do test I told her but I also make sure the tests I do are low enough not to red flag me.


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## SFGiants (Apr 16, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> So I had bloods done on the 7th and got my results in the mail today.  I have been on 100mg every 5 days.  Just to recap. Start with 236 total test.  TRT began with 200mg EOW and it dropped my levels to the low 100's.  Changed the dose to 100mg E5D and now my result is a whopping 256.  Estradiol at 23 with AI.
> 
> I'm going to make a follow up appt and tell him I want 250mg every week.
> 
> I think I'm starting to understand why I never saw very good results from the usual 500mg cycles.



500mg is a cruise when you wanna break from cruising at 1g a week.

Your growing a vagina!


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