# Advice - HGH, antiaging, strength, etc.



## Testtube8 (Mar 3, 2020)

Hey UG,

I'm looking to start with some sort of protocol for anti-aging as well as strength gain and fat loss. I'm not necessarily looking for crazy aesthetics, although it's certainly not a bad thing to be jacked. I've read a decent amount on HGH being good for the 3 listed things I'm going after, but I'm not sure if HGH on it's own is sufficient, or if some test should be involved, or if something else altogether is the way to go. Also, is MK-677 a reasonable alternative or is true HGH the only way to go there?

I'm 31 years old, 6'2", 206 pounds - been working out my whole life, but never taken anything. Most of the time I'm doing a standard bro-split, although recently I've been getting into different strength routines.



Thanks for your time


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## brock8282 (Mar 3, 2020)

I would not recommend mk, ive seen too many people end up with extremely high fasted blood glucose levels within a couple weeks of using it.

around 30 our bodies natural igf levels start dropping rapidly, so hgh would be very beneficial for you if you want to continue to make progress. I typically recommend only using Pharma grade, so genotropin, saizen, humatrope, norditropin, or serostim. You can find good cheap Chinese hgh but its a crapshoot on how good the product is and they tend to cause a lot more water retention and other side effects. 

test would certainly speed up the process, but depending on what your levels are its not necessary. going on trt with 2-4iu of hgh though would be a great productive long term stack.


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## Testtube8 (Mar 3, 2020)

Thanks for the reply man.

I was thinking of going with Norditropin, so that’s good you recommend it.

I just had some bloodwork done and my free test was 104 pg/mL and my test levels were 659 ng/dL.

With hgh what sort of schedule would you run?


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## brock8282 (Mar 3, 2020)

Those are very good test levels. 6’2 206 is pretty good natural stats if pretty lean. I was 215 same height maybe an inch taller when I started hormone use. What’s your ultimate goals. Just hgh will help you make progress but it might not be enough depending on ultimately what it is that will make you happy. 

I personally don’t really have experience with Hgh. Doing 2-4iu a day, most protocols i see would have you do either all before bed or splitting it before bed and post work out/ morning on non workout days.


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## Testtube8 (Mar 3, 2020)

Yeah, I bet we have similar body types then. I’m reasonably lean, although 2 years ago I was even more lean with good ab exposure.

My immediate goals are to stave off the aging related loss of strength and weight gain - especially around the gut.

I’m leaning  towards trying 2 IU of Hgh, as you said my Test levels seem fine so I may not need that right away. Another useful bloodwork data point is my IGF levels - 223 ng/mL. They seem to be at a reasonable level, what are your thoughts?

Also, the growing head/hands/feet talk with hgh - is that common or only at high dosages?

thanks again for your replies


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## transcend2007 (Mar 3, 2020)

At 31 its unlikely you need gh ... it's more likely more cardio and less sugar ... I'm 53 and have run gh on and off for 3 years ( that was a few years back now) ... first of all it is expensive ... 2nd you dont need to worry about getting too jacked or aesthetic ... the amount of work required to build lean mass and eat properly to gain muscle never happens by accident ... you'll have to earn it natural or with augmentation ...

Your natural test numbers are very good ... I'd focus primarily on diet ... there is so to know in that area you could spend the several years just dialing that in ... and everyone is different so you'll need to find out what works best for you ...  do not underestimate diets importance on muscle growth and getting lean ... ot is everything ...


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## gymrat827 (Mar 3, 2020)

all is a waste unless you have a legit GH spot and are going to run it for 6 months min.  Ive spent too much time and money on peps, sarms n gh runs of 12kws

GH isnt a muscle builder unless your using US (sero) stuff w slin.


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## Gabriel (Mar 3, 2020)

gymrat827 said:


> all is a waste unless you have a legit GH spot and are going to run it for 6 months min.  Ive spent too much time and money on peps, sarms n gh runs of 12kws
> 
> GH isnt a muscle builder unless your using US (sero) stuff w slin.



All true...........


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## snake (Mar 3, 2020)

Testtube8 said:


> Hey UG,
> 
> I'm 31 years old, 6'2", 206 pounds - been working out my whole life, but never taken anything. Most of the time I'm doing a standard bro-split, although recently I've been getting into different strength routines.





Testtube8 said:


> I just had some bloodwork done and my free test was 104 pg/mL and my test levels were 659 ng/dL.



Truthfully, it sounds like you're doing pretty damn good already with out HGH. I'd venture to say you got your diet down too. Sleep is so important and avoiding recreational drugs and alcohol.


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## brock8282 (Mar 3, 2020)

Gh has been shown in numerous studies to increase muscle mass especially as you reach age where igf levels decrease. Obviously it’s no where near as strong as steroids, but it is just not factual to say it doesn’t build any muscle without insulin.

Steroid users likely won’t notice as the steroids will build much more muscle, and I could imagine it’s possible that if you are at an advanced level of development that doses you would use on its own without insulin are just not high enough to build muscle mass for you.


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## Testtube8 (Mar 3, 2020)

Transcend: Currently I am fasting for 16 hours a day and mostly eating fruits/vegetables for my carbs. Any specific advice to tune up the diet, if that’s the way to go? Cardio has lapsed a little bit recently, but I still do 30 minutes per workout. Is that too little?

Gymrat: I have a good source of Nordatropin - is that good enough for strength gain? Any advice for slin usage for my purposes? I’m looking to gain a good amount of strength for functional purposes, e.g. lugging heavy bags on back without having discomfort during or after. Any advice on high vs MK-677? Or are both ineffective for you?

Snake: I currently fast 16 hours a day and eat mostly fruit/vegetables for carbs. I sleep on average 8.5-9 hours, although I wake up 3-5 times a night. Any advice beyond what I am currently doing?

Brock: I can see where you’re coming from, if you’re running a lot of gear already hgh may not do much. For my interests, 2 IU should help a little, although I’m completely inexperienced so what do I know. With my levels would test, hgh, or something else be the way to go?

Any additional thoughts you all have would be greatly appreciated.


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## gymrat827 (Mar 3, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> Gh has been shown in numerous studies to increase muscle mass especially as you reach age where igf levels decrease. Obviously it’s no where near as strong as steroids, but it is just not factual to say it doesn’t build any muscle without insulin.
> 
> Steroid users likely won’t notice as the steroids will build much more muscle, and I could imagine it’s possible that if you are at an advanced level of development that doses you would use on its own without insulin are just not high enough to build muscle mass for you.




yes, but if your going to rate tes 1-10 as a muscle builder, tes would be a 9 and GH a 2

Plus the GH is 5-10x the price and has to be ran 6 months to do build tissue.  

Ive been the guy 26/30 whatever age and read all this and say "im going to prove them wrong"

I just have a lighter wallet....thats all


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## gymrat827 (Mar 3, 2020)

Testtube8 said:


> Transcend: Currently I am fasting for 16 hours a day and mostly eating fruits/vegetables for my carbs. Any specific advice to tune up the diet, if that’s the way to go? Cardio has lapsed a little bit recently, but I still do 30 minutes per workout. Is that too little?
> 
> Gymrat: I have a good source of Nordatropin - is that good enough for strength gain? Any advice for slin usage for my purposes? I’m looking to gain a good amount of strength for functional purposes, e.g. lugging heavy bags on back without having discomfort during or after. Any advice on high vs MK-677? Or are both ineffective for you?
> 
> ...




what do they test at...??  If they are good enough, yes they will work.  

Why do you need anti aging..??  fat loss..?? you can do both without GH.......


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## brock8282 (Mar 3, 2020)

Oh I absolutely agree with that gymrat, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone that would feel the expense. If spending on hgh isn’t noticeable to you and you don’t want to mess with steroids and risk screwing up your natural production then it could be a useful tool. 

OP- the answer to your questions depends really on your ultimate goals? You could certainly put on 5-10 pounds through hard work and hgh could help you stay leaner in the process, if you really want 20,30 pounds, steroids would be the better way to go, do you really want to go down that road though as it’s a big commitment. I would never tell anyone yes going on steroids is a good idea, that’s a personal decision for them to make.


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## snake (Mar 3, 2020)

snake said:


> I'd venture to say you got your diet down too.





Testtube8 said:


> Snake: I currently fast 16 hours a day and eat mostly fruit/vegetables for carbs. I sleep on average 8.5-9 hours, although I wake up 3-5 times a night. Any advice beyond what I am currently doing?



Okay, I had that one wrong, not the first time. Any reason for the fasting? It not a bad thing for general health but not a great move to put on some muscle. You did mention strength in your post. Can you give me a break down of your macros and total cals.?


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## Testtube8 (Mar 4, 2020)

Gymrat: I definitely agree, it has to be good gh. When you mention without gh do you mean with some alternative or nothing at all? If so what do you recommend? 

Brock: I think my main goal is to gain 10-15 lb and keep lean. Ideally I’d like to go the route with the least side effects. I was always led to believe hgh was the one to go with. What are your thoughts on that for my goals?

Snake: I just starting the fasting for the health benefits. There are a number of positive effects I find - it just sucks for the first week. Although, I do agree it may be harder to put on muscle while fasting. I don’t have much experience with really focusing on putting on mass. My macros are: protein-209 g, fat-30 g, carb-176. 1800 cal

thanks again for all your comments


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## brock8282 (Mar 4, 2020)

Testtube8 said:


> Gymrat: I definitely agree, it has to be good gh. When you mention without gh do you mean with some alternative or nothing at all? If so what do you recommend?
> 
> Brock: I think my main goal is to gain 10-15 lb and keep lean. Ideally I’d like to go the route with the least side effects. I was always led to believe hgh was the one to go with. What are your thoughts on that for my goals?
> 
> ...



your calories are extremely low bro and I’d be worried keeping fat that low for too long for Health reasons. your goals certainly are attainable without steroids though. You certainly don’t need gh either but it will help the process, especially with staying leaner. The question is financially will it be worth it for you, it’s not something that gets you results in 2 or 3 months, it’s more of a commitment. Not sure how much research you’ve done on the price of gh.


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## snake (Mar 4, 2020)

brock8282 said:


> your calories are extremely low bro and I’d be worried keeping fat that low for too long for Health reasons.....



This is the give and take with intermittent fasting. The good is you can only eat so much in one meal. The bad is you can only eat so much in one meal. For someone looking to lose weight, this is a good way to do it and include the benefits of fasting. 

I do agree with you brock that if the intent of intermittent fasting is for a healthier- longer life, running low fats may, in the long run be counterproductive.


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## Testtube8 (Mar 4, 2020)

Brock: I agree, my calories are a bit low - l am looking to bring them up a bit. Where would you normally like fat intake to be? I’ve looked into spending roughly $270 every 20 days for Nordatropin, does that seem like the right price point for quality hgh? I think you eluded to this earlier, but just for clarity - which do you think has more side effects, hgh or mk677? It seems like those are the only two options for my purposes.

Snake: If I were to keep the fasting would you recommend increasing my fats quite a bit per meal? How do you feel about my carb levels? It seems protein is in the right neighborhood. Where would you like to see the fat intake ideally be for my purposes while not being unhealthy?

thanks again guys


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## Toast (May 25, 2020)

We have similar stats. I didn’t start losing weight until I got my protein around 45% and carbs and fats down. Only carbs I can tolerate without gaining weight are berries, veggies, and oats. Everything else causes me bloat. Caffeine, ephedrine, carderine, and yohimbine help with appetite - all in moderate dosages. Thing for me is that I can’t really even have a cheat meal or I get off the rails. I need to be disciplined 100%. I’ve taken Saizen at 4iu Mon/Tue & Thu/Fri - all in am. Worked reasonably well for me but my diet wasn’t great at that time. With the above it would be great. I start again this week but this time with Citadel. You really shouldn’t think about insulin. Unless you’re looking to compete and have a coach it’s just too risky. Keep your dosage under 4iu per day and monitor your blood glucose levels. If they go up, drop it temporarily. Just start low and work up to where you’re comfortable. I plan on my GH costing me around $300-$400/mo. Between GH, supps, and gear it’s easily $10,000/yr.


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## Mr_Q (May 26, 2020)

I’m not a gh or mk expert but I can tell you my experience with mk. I’ve been taking it for the last 3.5 months. Started at 12.5 mgs moved up to 18.75 mgs and now at 25 mgs a day. I first started taking it upon waking up. The hunger was insane. Uncontrollable. I’m trying to lose weight so this was very hard. I broke my diet a few times. I then switched to night time dosage and the hunger is very controllable now. Not sure if the timing is the key or just me getting use to it. I am taking it due to a torn bicep tendon. I had surgery right before I started taking it. I was hoping it helped with healing. I am only able to work out one side of my body but I have notice small strength increase, overall better well being the sleep is much better much much better now that I’m on 25 mgs. I have been able to lose a good amount of weight in the three months. Probably a good 205-30 pounds. My cals are close to yours , about 2100 but I’m eating 5-6 times a day. Over all I like the mk a lot. My fasted blood sugar has fluctuated over the 3 months. I used to be a diabetic but since I got in shape I no longer am. My fasted blood glucose is around 80-90 each morning. When I ate something bad it did creep up a bit but managing my diet has kept it in checked. Taking ashwaganda has helped with that as well. 

I took my igf1 levels before I started and it was 221 I believe. I just got bloodwork done so I’ll be getting the results sometime this week. I hope it has increased


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