# How necessary is whole food ?



## serratus (Mar 30, 2017)

I diet for clean bulking with many shakes and was told by a member I should eat REAL FOOD. I'm going to write down my diet and I hope you'll tell me how to improve it 
8 am (one hour after GH shot) : protein shake (30g whey, 5 g leucine)
8.15 2nd shake : 60g oats, water, cinnamon, almond powder
9 am : 1st pre W/O shake : 25g whey, 5g leucine, 25 g glycerol monosterate, 100g oatmeal
9.30 : 2nd pre W/O shake : 17g EAA, 5g leucine, 10g citrulline, 4g beta-alanine, 60g dextrin cluster
10 am W/O
11.15 after W/O and stretching with weights : post W/O shake : 30-35 g BCAA, 7-15 g leucine, 120 g dextrin cluster, 8 g glycine, 15g soy lecithin, cinnamon
12.15-30 : GH
1.15-30 pm: 1st meal with whole food : 500g brown rice, 100g steamed broccoli, 120g meat or fish, 5g leucine, 3 tsp nuts oil, 3 tsp olive oil, a fruit  
5 pm : shake : 100g oats, 25g whey, 5g leucine
7.15 : 2nd meal with whole food : 500g potatoes (sweet or white), 120g meat or fish, 5g leucine, 200g boiled mixed vegetables (zucchini, tomatoes, eggplant)
I'm getting a lot of leucine because I'm old. I'm getting much proteins after W/O because I train whole body (for instance chest-quads-back) (6 times a week)


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## widehips71 (Mar 30, 2017)

That looks horrible.  I would die a slow death eating twice a day.  Plus I don't believe in "clean" bulking nor am I a nutritionist so I don't know how to improve this other than telling you to stop drinking five fukking shakes a day and replace them with food.  How can you possibly gain anything when damn near all day you're living off of aminos?



You seem to be scared of fats so maybe start using liquid egg whites, boiled egg whites to snack on, powdered peanut butter, skim milk, and more lean meats.


How much do you weigh living like this?


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## Milo (Mar 30, 2017)

Whole body 6 times a week? Is this what i read correctly? Food is 90% shakes? Who the **** gave you that idea?


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## trodizzle (Mar 30, 2017)

serratus said:


> I diet for clean bulking with many shakes and was told by a member I should eat REAL FOOD. I'm going to write down my diet and I hope you'll tell me how to improve it
> 8 am (one hour after GH shot) : protein shake (30g whey, 5 g leucine)
> 8.15 2nd shake : 60g oats, water, cinnamon, almond powder
> 9 am : 1st pre W/O shake : 25g whey, 5g leucine, 25 g glycerol monosterate, 100g oatmeal
> ...



Step 1: Figure out your TDEE using this calculator and your current weight. Don't add anything in except for your sleep, leave all the other dials alone.
Step 2: For "clean" bulking (aka keeping the fatass to a minimum) add 500 calories to that TDEE (mentally, you can't do it in the calc).
Step 3: Use an app like MyFitnessPal, go into your Settings set your caloric goal to the number you calculated (with that 500 added in), you don't really need to worry about the macro percentages, those don't matter as much as the calorie numbers and they will give you a headache initially trying to hit certain macro percentages on top of calories. That's the more advanced stuff which can come later.
Step 4: Add every single thing that goes into your mouth into the app. That means you need to be as accurate as possible. Don't eyeball cheese, or sour cream, or whatever and hope you get it right. Weigh your foods and measure items. This is the hardest thing for most people as it takes a bit of effort which many people won't put in.
Step 5: Eat to those calories or as close as you can to them daily, for an extended period of time and you will put on clean mass (if doing things that build muscle, like lifting). If you eat at this level and sit on the couch, you're going to put on fat.
Step 6: Using the same TDEE calc linked above and the same settings,  use the Moderate exercise slider to add in 30 minutes to the calculation. This will get you more calories as it's adding in 30 minutes of lifting/cardio to the mix which effects your TDEE. For me this nets me an extra 360 (or so) cals for every 30 minutes I work. If I do cardio for 30 minutes one day, I get 360 more cals I can eat. If I lift for 30 minutes, I get 360 more cals I can eat. If I do both, I get 720 more cals I can eat.

Now, keep at this a while and you will clean bulk.

You may be asking yourself, well what about the whole foods question? Dude, eat whatever the fock you want, fill the calorie bucket any way you wish. Now, granted, you could do this with all Kit Kat's but the problem is you will be starving, this is why most people switch to "bro" foods, they are less cals and fill you up more (chicken breast, greens, rice, etc). But it doesn't really matter, add some shakes in if they work for your lifestyle, or don't. Eat the same crap every day, every meal, or don't. It's all up to you, it's the math that matters.

Here is how I have my MyFitnessPal configured for my cut. I use the first section (aka meal) for logging all my normal, non-workout TDEE cals. I have a range that i'm using because I'm fine with a 500-1000 per day deficit, or anywhere in that range. I then have two other meals where I add food if I happen to work out those days. It's simple for me. Fill up the first bucket and stop, unless I worked out. Then I can fill up the other two.







Good luck, Tdizzle out (mic drop)


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## Rip (Mar 30, 2017)

is that only 4 ounces of meat or fish? I think it's fine, but that's just me. Apparently you have 2 nutritious whole food meals. That average person eats between 1-3 meals per day. You're also getting meals in the form of shakes. I believe complete protein is complete protein. In the end, the body doesn't care, as long as you're not allowing yourself to go catabolic. 

In my opinion, this is a bad idea: "I'm getting a lot of leucine because I'm old. I'm getting much proteins after W/O because I train whole body (for instance chest-quads-back) (6 times a week)"

especially for older guys...I would only train one body part per day, once per week


You're probably overtraining. You're body needs to recover and you're not giving it a chance to.



serratus said:


> I diet for clean bulking with many shakes and was told by a member I should eat REAL FOOD. I'm going to write down my diet and I hope you'll tell me how to improve it
> 8 am (one hour after GH shot) : protein shake (30g whey, 5 g leucine)
> 8.15 2nd shake : 60g oats, water, cinnamon, almond powder
> 9 am : 1st pre W/O shake : 25g whey, 5g leucine, 25 g glycerol monosterate, 100g oatmeal
> ...


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## Milo (Mar 30, 2017)

I suppose the question should be asked as WHY you choose to have so many ****ing shakes. Calories are calories this is correct, but $80 isnt $30. It would be way cheaper to just eat real food, granted it would be more of a pain in the ass. I spend $100 a week on food. To get that same level but in shake form it would cost me $240 a week give or take a little.


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## gymrat827 (Mar 31, 2017)

It's necessary 
That's all


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## ECKSRATED (Mar 31, 2017)

Just replace two of those shakes with some steak and potatoes or chicken and rice. Something. Anything. 

And the average person eats 1-3 meals a day? Yeah the average girl. We're talking about a bodybuilder on steroids. Keep the shakes with oats and get rid of the rest. Just eat food man. Aren't u hungry all the time??


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## widehips71 (Mar 31, 2017)

I'm hungry just reading this


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## Dex (Mar 31, 2017)

I try to eat as much as I can now. One day, I won't have the teeth to do so. I'll wait for that day to come before I drink 5 shakes a day.


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## stonetag (Mar 31, 2017)

Two things, 1. Sucks to be you getting through a day on that train wreck. 2. What Dizz said!


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## MS1605 (Mar 31, 2017)

Milo said:


> Who the **** gave you that idea?



The intrawebs, Bruv.


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## John Ziegler (Mar 31, 2017)

Id be farting my ass off with all those shakes in me.


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## trodizzle (Mar 31, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> Id be farting my ass off with all those shakes in me.



No doubt, I'm betting he probably has to watch those farts otherwise he may shit his pants.


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## serratus (Apr 2, 2017)

Thanks for your replies. I'm very surprised to read that you assimilate shakes less than whole food. For me it's the opposite. In my place, powders are much cheaper than food. I buy bucket of 25 kg organic bio-active whey isolate for 424 $ (top quality, that's 16.96 $ a kg with 98% proteins) and bags of 25 kg organis oats for 50 bucks. Why do you say rice is better than oats, there both cereals If I buy minced beef it's going to cost 15 $ a kg with only 30g proteins per 100 g (the rest is water and a bit of fat : 5%)
And I get no farts.
In a whole meal, I'm getting about one kg food in my stomach and needs 2h to digest it. A shake will only be 150g 
But I'll try to get more whole food to see


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 2, 2017)

how do u really know whats in that powder shit? From my years of diet and fitness no fukking way shakes even come close to whole foods..All shakes are is a supplement


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## BRICKS (Apr 2, 2017)

Unless u missed it, i havent seen yoir height and weigjt in either of your posts.  I think the answer to your question is simple.  What's your height and weight?  Unless you are quite large and very active, if you are truly getting the amount of calories you say you are, you should be gaining weight.  I believe in another post you said you were not gaining.  I didn't go back and check so please correct me if I'm wrong.  Post your height and weight and the answer will be obvious.


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## serratus (Apr 2, 2017)

OK Bricks, I'm 1.66 (1.69 on my passport) and my weight is now 87 kg (2 kg more than when I introduced myself). I have 18%  fat on the QCT scale. I gained some weight when I changed my diet (from 3000 to 5500 cal) and I changed training (6 W/O a day instead of 4).


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## serratus (Apr 2, 2017)

I'll give you my diet stats because I have a 4 pages diet where each ingredient is weighted and transformed in figures
5569.12 calories a day
293.92 g proteins (for 1175.68 cal) that's 24.96% in weight
711.63 g carbs (for 2846.521 cal) that's 60.44 % in weight
171.88 g fats (for 1546.92 cal) that's 14.60 % in weight
I'm sure you'll find there is too much carbs. But I'm shedding fat because of HGH


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## Jin (Apr 3, 2017)

serratus said:


> I'll give you my diet stats because I have a 4 pages diet where each ingredient is weighted and transformed in figures
> 5569.12 calories a day
> 293.92 g proteins (for 1175.68 cal) that's 24.96% in weight
> 711.63 g carbs (for 2846.521 cal) that's 60.44 % in weight
> ...



I'm 128kg. I gain weight on an almost identical macros split as you have posted (I eat more protein and less carbs). Something doesn't add up.


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## trodizzle (Apr 3, 2017)

serratus said:


> I'll give you my diet stats because I have a 4 pages diet where each ingredient is weighted and transformed in figures
> 5569.12 calories a day
> 293.92 g proteins (for 1175.68 cal) that's 24.96% in weight
> 711.63 g carbs (for 2846.521 cal) that's 60.44 % in weight
> ...



Those cals are crazy high for a "clean bulk." A 30 year old male at your weight and height would need to be working out for a solid 3.5 hours a day and he would still be at a 500 cal surplus using the calc. Something seems off here, that or the HGH does something crazy I'm not aware of in regards to calorie burn.


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## Jada (Apr 3, 2017)

U need to eat, shakes are ok but it shouldn't be used to replace your meals.


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## BRICKS (Apr 3, 2017)

Jin said:


> I'm 128kg. I gain weight on an almost identical macros split as you have posted (I eat more protein and less carbs). Something doesn't add up.



This is why I asked for stats.  It doesn't add up.  Add to the fact that he said he didn't get anything from 750/week test and something else at 600/ week and his buddy did so the gears not bunk (from another thread)  I'm 120kgs and in the gym for 3 hours/day  I'm getting fatter right now and I know I'm not eating 5500 cals.


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## serratus (Apr 3, 2017)

I know it doesn't add up. I think I have a particularly bad genetic with few receptors and a very high myostatin. I'm desperatrly looking what I could do to improve. I thought I might get some help on the forum.
Anyway, my pct is over, I'm starting a new cycle and I start getting some results.
I had a talk with my coach about shakes and he agrees with me : high quality controlled protein powders are better than whole protein food because easiest to digest and assimilate.


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 3, 2017)

gotta clean those receptors


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## serratus (Apr 3, 2017)

I've just cleaned them with clomid, novaldex during 6 weeks. Do you know a better way ?


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 3, 2017)

serratus said:


> I've just cleaned them with clomid, novaldex during 6 weeks. Do you know a better way ?


same as i do my balls..you gotta scrub them


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## BRICKS (Apr 3, 2017)

Well,, you've asked for advice here and gotten it,  what you do with it is up to you.  One thing to think about: the pros, the big boys, what do they do?  Food, or shakes?  Best wishes brother.


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## Med535 (Apr 6, 2017)

Anything faster ? I can do all my PT I eat FAIRLY healthy but I got to be ready to rock by may 15th


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## trodizzle (Apr 6, 2017)

Med535 said:


> Anything faster ? I can do all my PT I eat FAIRLY healthy but I got to be ready to rock by may 15th



A bigger deficit per day, instead of 500 maybe go up closer to 1000.


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## serratus (Apr 6, 2017)

If the big boys eat whole meals I'll try. But I can't see the difference between 100 g oats in a shake and 100 g Scottish oatscakes (whole meat). I can't sse a difference between a shake with 100g mashed potatoes in it and 100g mashed potatoes on a plate.


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## 13gunhey498 (Apr 6, 2017)

Milo said:


> I suppose the question should be asked as WHY you choose to have so many ****ing shakes. Calories are calories this is correct, but $80 isnt $30. It would be way cheaper to just eat real food, granted it would be more of a pain in the ass. I spend $100 a week on food. To get that same level but in shake form it would cost me $240 a week give or take a little.



Good point, well said man


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 6, 2017)

My issue is time as in time to eat an actual meal. I split my "meals" into 3 whole food meals and 3 shakes. I have breakfast, lunch and dinner and I have shakes between them. In a perfect world where I didn't have to work and could do it the way I wanted, I would eat the shit out of steak and chicken. Unfortunately, I am dealt a set of cards and do what I can with them. 
There is a ton of vitamins and minerals in real food that shakes just don't provide. Real food is also slower burning so you muscles have a more constant energy source. My opinion for what its worth. If you have time to eat more real food, do it.


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## serratus (Apr 9, 2017)

My coaches give much importance to diet. For them it's more important than training and gear. For them digestion and assimilation is of upmost importance, that's why they use many shakes with pre-digested food


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## Rip (Apr 11, 2017)

if you can't eat, or if you can't get food, protein shakes or bars will at least supply you with much-needed protein and prevent catabolism  
it's better than not eating. I try to at least eat most of my meals as food. I will eat a bar or shake, if I have to before I will go without eating. 



Dex said:


> I try to eat as much as I can now. One day, I won't have the teeth to do so. I'll wait for that day to come before I drink 5 shakes a day.


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## TheQuestionaire96 (Jul 8, 2017)

man o man dez reads


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## Zombialja Bones (Jul 8, 2017)

serratus said:


> I diet for clean bulking with many shakes and was told by a member I should eat REAL FOOD. I'm going to write down my diet and I hope you'll tell me how to improve it
> 8 am (one hour after GH shot) : protein shake (30g whey, 5 g leucine)
> 8.15 2nd shake : 60g oats, water, cinnamon, almond powder
> 9 am : 1st pre W/O shake : 25g whey, 5g leucine, 25 g glycerol monosterate, 100g oatmeal
> ...



I'm floored by the sheer thought that your insides are looking a chemical swamp of everything a sports nutrition store holds with a mix of a back alley illegal ish. 

Shock aside, why aren't you enjoying your food the old fashioned way - cooked with love?


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