# tren e test e var vs test deca dbol



## Bro Bundy (Jul 19, 2012)

two completely different cycles...your thoughts on them both


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## RowdyBrad (Jul 19, 2012)

Tren/Test/Var - Yummy, lean gains that you keep without a ton of bloating.

Test/Deca/Dbol - Yummy, big gains and strength through the roof with some controlable bloating and loss of water weight at the end.

Both are good. 1 for lean gains while staying lean. 2 for strength and big gains while not staying super lean.

I will be going with number 2.


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## Infantry87 (Jul 19, 2012)

Give the Tren A/Prop/var a try. See how your body reacts to tren with the short ester first just in case you can drop if need be. But its up to brotha.


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 19, 2012)

dont think im a shorts kinda guy i fear no side


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## Infantry87 (Jul 19, 2012)

Fucking animal. I tried tren e 2 cycles ago and that was my first tren cycle and damn did i fuck myself with that long ester . When I try tren again itll be ace. At least till i get use to tren then ill step up to the big boy enth ester ... CAUSE IM A BIGGITY BITCH


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## coltmc4545 (Jul 19, 2012)

Here's the thing fellas, I'll let you in on a secret, you can cut with deca too. Yup, I said it. It's all about your diet. There's been alot of people that use deca as a cutter. Not saying its as good as cutter as tren but yes you can cut on it. In my mind here's the cycle of all cycles which will actually be my next cycle....

Weeks 1-6 dbol 50mg Ed
          1-12 prop 50mg Ed
          1-12 npp 75-100 mg Ed (gonna see how I do with 75 with deca dick. If I'm ok with 75 I'm bumping npp to 100 Ed)
          13-24 prop 35mg ed
          14-24 mast prop 50mg ed
          14-24 ace 50 mg Ed
          17-24 var 100 mg Ed
Weeks 1-25 caber .5 mg eod
           1-28 stane 12.5 Ed
          1-24 hcg 250 2x a week then blast 2500iu's eod for 10 days then jump into clomid nolva pct

This is a beast of a cycle. I'm gonna try npp higher then test due to the fact I had zero trouble with libido issues on 35mg of prop and 70mg of tren Ed. None. It was actually through the roof. I know a guy on another board running 500 mg test e and 1200 mg deca a week right now and is completely fine. He's of course running caber Ed. I'm goin for a big bulk and then a big cut at the end. I want to try it due to the fact I've ran 400 mg deca and didn't see shit for gains just lubed up joints and anything over 500 mg of test a week I get in bareable bacne. Plus running short esters I can play with my doses alot if needed.

I've ran both mentioned cycles minus the var in the tren cycle but I'm about to finish off my prop cruise with var. I dropped the ace a few weeks ago and I'm still leaning out. I love both cycles. Both completely different cycles and had completely different goals. Next one I'm putting them together cuz I'm fucking crazy I guess lol. All I know is it's gonna be fun!


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## Bullseye Forever (Jul 19, 2012)

well this trip im running test/deca/materon for a big bulk,i used 500mg of deca last trip wasnt satisfied witht he results,so i uped it to 750mg this time gonna see what happens,something better lol,im leaving my test at 750mg and masteron at 400mg.....i didnt have any sides much last time,but i dont wanna create them with high doses of test,my body tends to convert test to estrogen easy,and i would havet to drink a bottle of aromasin a day lol.....

after t his one ends in november or december,im going test/npp for 12 weeks then drop the npp,take test by itself for 2 weeks,then add the tren with test,i hadnt decided on the doses yet for them yet


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 19, 2012)

good stuff boyz ya both of them cycles are calling out to me...bundy ........bundy..........inject us.....eat us......damn Im a addict


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## Bullseye Forever (Jul 19, 2012)

Brother Bundy said:


> good stuff boyz ya both of them cycles are calling out to me...bundy ........bundy..........inject us.....eat us......damn Im a addict


hell we all are lol


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 20, 2012)

well fuck it i ordered both the above cycles today o well lets rock! Now which one to do for a second cycle dilemma dilemma...


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## coltmc4545 (Jul 20, 2012)

Second cycle? Hmmmm what did your first cycle consist of?


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 20, 2012)

coltmc4545 said:


> Second cycle? Hmmmm what did your first cycle consist of?



im on it now cyp and var at the end of my run


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## coltmc4545 (Jul 20, 2012)

Whats your goals on the next cycle bro? Guess I should of asked that before and saved some time. If its bulk test/deca/dbol if it's recomp test tren var


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## LeanHerm (Jul 20, 2012)

coltmc4545 said:


> Here's the thing fellas, I'll let you in on a secret, you can cut with deca too. Yup, I said it. It's all about your diet. There's been alot of people that use deca as a cutter. Not saying its as good as cutter as tren but yes you can cut on it. In my mind here's the cycle of all cycles which will actually be my next cycle....
> 
> Weeks 1-6 dbol 50mg Ed
> 1-12 prop 50mg Ed
> ...


I'm sorry dude you don't need that much gear. Specially two 19 nors like that, at that long of being shutdown. Imo that's not crazy It's flat out dumb. Dude every cycle I've ran has been a maximum of 14 weeks followed by a proper pct and recover time. I'm jacked is fuck. Unless your already on trt I would tell anyone else not to run that. Specially cause your stopping everything the same week which has to be a typo cuz I know your not that dumb. What I try to tell people you don't need massive amounts of gear, for long periods like that. Sure your body gets used to the added weight, but on a cycle like that your shutdown hard!!!  My motto is aas by far isn't safe, but make sure you live a long healthy life on it.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 20, 2012)

And what's up with daily injects of NPP?


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## coltmc4545 (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh geez I'm getting preached too lol bro I know you're looking out. Here's the thing, last cycle was 16 weeks. Current cycle is gonna be 20 weeks with short ester's and Ed injects. My last cycle I never recovered even being off for 8-9 months. Trt is definitely in my very near future. I never said I'm starting this tomorrow brotha! Things change. I'll get bloods a month after this pct is over and go from there. If I actually recover ok from this prop ace cycle then I'll rethink my cycle layout. If not then I'm goin for it. And yes I was at work on break typing that novel I posted and rushing. Stop yelling at me mom lol (just read what you wrote in the chat box) 

POB Im injecting everything else Ed so why not? Plus as busy as I am if I don't inject Ed and do eod or mon we'd fri I tend to forget shit. Hell there's been plenty of days on this cycle I've missed my shots cuz of how busy I've been, new job, new house, 2 kids, coaching baseball, yada yada yada.

I'm definitely not recommending this cycle to anyone, I just posted what my "plans" are bros chillax. Hell I'm jacked too. Maybe not as dead sexy as you  but I'm plenty big. Plus I'm smart enough to drop shit if I need to just like I did with the tren on this cycle. Hit week 11 and shit hit the fan so I dropped it and been on 50 mg of prop Ed to finish my cut and about to start some var to finish it up.


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## TheLupinator (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol I thought it was a great cycle Colt. Prolly run test 2weeks out past the tren-a. Also I would cut out the dbol and drop the var to 75mg/day..other than that doses aren't excessive, nothing goes above 350mg/week except npp... 

and once you're shutdown I would think that the difference between 14 and 24 weeks isn't that extensive when you got hcg keeping your boys nice and warmed up ready for pct. My first cycle was 9weeks. My current is 20weeks so I guess I'll have to wait and see for myself


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## biggerben692000 (Aug 11, 2012)

I just jumped back on tren with test e and winny. I'm running tren hex/para @125mg/e3d for 2 weeks. I just whacked 400mg trenE this past week taking 200mg on mon and 200 on thursday. I'll stop the para after this next week as the tren e will be kicking in.
I'm trying the low amount of test this go around. Only 250mg/week. I'm taking 50mg winny/ed. Also 500mg EQ/week for another 4 weeks. I was on a gram of EQ for about 20 weeks.
I guess I chimed in because the only difference in what we're gonna be running soon is you're gonna be on var and i'm gonnna be on winny. 
I like winny alot. I was taking 100mg/ed but my elbows were hurting pretty bad. I was almost impossible to do dips, never mind weighted dips. Skull crushers were hurting too.
I haven't run var in years. The last time was back around 2006 and it was HG from a Dr. I wasn't able to take the amount I wanted, though I remember I enjoyed it. I've recently spoken and been reading about guys taking hg var and mg for mg they say its much stronger compared to the top UGL's. But HG isn't an option for me now. 
I'm thinking about getting 50mg tabs and starting at 50mg and going up to 100mg/ed. Though Its been suggested to me to go with 20mg caps/tabs because 60-80mg/day may be all I need.


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## Get Some (Aug 13, 2012)

mlupi319 said:


> Lol I thought it was a great cycle Colt. Prolly run test 2weeks out past the tren-a. Also I would cut out the dbol and drop the var to 75mg/day..other than that doses aren't excessive, nothing goes above 350mg/week except npp...
> 
> and once you're shutdown I would think that *the difference between 14 and 24 weeks isn't that extensive *when you got hcg keeping your boys nice and warmed up ready for pct. My first cycle was 9weeks. My current is 20weeks so I guess I'll have to wait and see for myself









TERRIBLE ADVICE! If you are on TRT this cycle is still VERY HEAVY. If you are going to run a PCT, the difference between a 14 week cycle and a 24 week cycle could be the difference between being healthy and having self-induced hypogonadism which forces you to start TRT. And it's not all rainbows, clits, and butterflies after that either.... it's a long recovery process. While I'm all for switching up comounds in the middle of a 20+ week cycle, using 2 19-nor compounds is very sketchy to say the least. Also, I believe that you could benefit more from a couple of 14 week cycles over an 8 to 10 month period than a single 24 week cycle. If you run a 24 week cycle that's almost 6 months! I would not be surprised if recovery was not achieved until sometime after 1 year!

Please refrain from throwing comments out about extended cycles unless you are giving personal feedback. We DO NOT want everyone thinking that it's perfectly normal to run 24 week cycles....it's not! Some people can handle it, but I wouldn't rcommend it for 95%+ of people out there.


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## LeanHerm (Aug 13, 2012)

Yes and hcg on cycle does nothing but keep the nuts fuller and if ran before pct helps with you lh which realisticlps with hpta. But I've read studies on 19 nors and how some guys won't fully recover off of them for months even on hcg. Yes hcg helps but some people make it more complicated then they have too!!


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## Get Some (Aug 13, 2012)

Also, about NPP.....It's NOT a short ester. It's short compared to Deca for sure, but it still takes a bit to kick in. Pinning it EOD will not allow you to achieve the highest possible peaks in levels. However, since you are using so much it may help to minimize the side effects (MAY, not for sure) and you probably don't need much more than 700mg EW. NPP can be shot twice a week just fine, it's not too much shorter than the enanthate ester.

Oh, and another quick note: Esters may have slightly different half lives based on the compound they are attached to


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## LeanHerm (Aug 13, 2012)

Yes from what I understand pp is smack dab in the middle between e and p esters


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## SuperBane (Aug 14, 2012)

Tag teamed.


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## TheLupinator (Aug 19, 2012)

Get Some said:


> TERRIBLE ADVICE! If you are on TRT this cycle is still VERY HEAVY. If you are going to run a PCT, the difference between a 14 week cycle and a 24 week cycle could be the difference between being healthy and having self-induced hypogonadism which forces you to start TRT. And it's not all rainbows, clits, and butterflies after that either.... it's a long recovery process. While I'm all for switching up comounds in the middle of a 20+ week cycle, using 2 19-nor compounds is very sketchy to say the least. Also, I believe that you could benefit more from a couple of 14 week cycles over an 8 to 10 month period than a single 24 week cycle. If you run a 24 week cycle that's almost 6 months! I would not be surprised if recovery was not achieved until sometime after 1 year!
> 
> Please refrain from throwing comments out about extended cycles unless you are giving personal feedback. We DO NOT want everyone thinking that it's perfectly normal to run 24 week cycles....it's not! Some people can handle it, but I wouldn't rcommend it for 95%+ of people out there.



I said that I would think the difference is negligible.. didnt say it was a fact. And your opinion on what is a "healthy" cycle and what will, in your mind, lead to hypogonadism seems to be much more solidified although no studies alluding to medium vs long cycles have been cited. I'm completely open to some real world evidence of guys doing 10-14 week cycles and recovering fine but doing a 20-24week cycle with hcg (or dare i say clomid) and rendering them with hypogonadism. Does that proof exist?

From my understanding HCG keeps your testes from becoming desensitized and crippled.. therefore your testes stay active.. I still think with active testes that an extra 6-10weeks would not make that big of an impact..

Now for 19-nors there is added risk.. I was more or less just speaking on the length of cycle.. I wouldnt run 2 19-nors either..


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## Pikiki (Aug 20, 2012)

I do believe that Dr Scally,N Vergel and AL Hodge they ALL have done studies with hypoganadism induce by 19nors on just 12 WEEKS!!! I also read about their recovery was succesfully accomplish on ALL men in this study call POWER ( Program for Wellness Restoration ) so here is your proof about it, hey only 12 weeks not 24 so if we look at 20+ weeks cycles is even more complicated of recovery. Keep in mind that this recovery amounts of HGC used it were around 2500 eod for the first 16 days so yes they are even more updated studies on POWER but sorry I don`t had those on hands were the amount of HCG and AI used are diffrent than the one I just talked about it. I do contemplated at a loong as cycle like 20+ till I sit down and get pros and cons on the table ( even Im on TRT ) I change my mind after talked to a few bros and discuss a few things on the chat and threads here.

About the pinning I won`t put out too much cause IMO everyones knows what works for you better than any particular and is a PERSONAL PREFFRENCE by all means. Nice discussion here.....


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## TheLupinator (Aug 20, 2012)

As always great info Pikiki! Now this gives me something to search for. I wonder on those longer cycles was hcg run throughout? I feel like this would have a big impact on recovery... here's an article that suggests hcg needs to be run during the cycle and not just an ending blast, and will keep you in prime condition for a speedy recovery


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## LeanHerm (Aug 20, 2012)

Cone on man. Bringing articles from pp.  Your testes are still shutdown even on hcg. Ya its lh replacement but does nothing but keep your nuts full. Everything that works is still shutdown. If your not competing you do not need 24 weeks. If .your not lazy and eat right 12 weeks is all you need. When you get to week 12 gains diminish anyways unless you change a lot of shit.


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## Pikiki (Aug 20, 2012)

BigHerm said:


> Cone on man. Bringing articles from pp.  Your testes are still shutdown even on hcg. Ya its lh replacement but does nothing but keep your nuts full. Everything that works is still shutdown. If your not competing you do not need 24 weeks. If .your not lazy and eat right 12 weeks is all you need. When you get to week 12 gains diminish anyways unless you change a lot of shit.



Im agreed with this ^^^^


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## TheLupinator (Aug 20, 2012)

Haha I was contemplating pulling the article from another site but ya thats the original source. I by no means think 24weeks is optimal for recreational use, and agree that hcg only mimics the lh signal.. doesn't clomid actually signal your body to produce its own lh? as opposed to hcg just mimicing lh? I guess I know what I'm doing at work tomorrow, Last year of grad school starts in a week, might as well start dusting off the research skillz now..


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 20, 2012)

yup im going with test deca dbol for my next cycle in may.Lets get bulked the fuck out!


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