# Trt testing is dated



## John Ziegler (Jan 25, 2018)

anyone think trt testing ought to be more thorough 

rather than a one time test be a series of different collection times 

during the course of a week 

reason being that you may have a 600 one day at one time 

and then something significantly higher or lower 

pretty sure that for a log time my t levels were fluctuating 

for a long time but since I only got one test that was in range so to speak 

thought ok I'm good will try again in a couple years 

when that coulda just been a rare peak and other days and times be garbage 

I'd rather have a steady 400 then a 600 one day 200 on another


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## Bullseye Forever (Jan 25, 2018)

I always wonder why they(Endos and Urologist) want to use one injection every 2 weeks rather than once a week? Cause they always tell me they want to know when the declining day is,which don’t make sense to me


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## IHI (Jan 25, 2018)

Just my experience talking with a few smart docs before ending up at big hospital with endo specialist that got me going on legit trt.

weekly injections are only going to raise/lower so much in a 7 day time frame. Hence why they always do bloods, AFTER YOUVE STABILIZED, 2 days post injection and 1 day pre injection. That is all the window you need to see IMO, and obviously the docs too. Your peak test level will occur 1-2 days post shot and trough test level day before next shot based on exogenous test half life. I have to get annual labs done, and have for yrs since dialing into docs happy place (not mine). And each year numbers on both ends were always +/- 40, which in the scheme of trt isnt shit.

so no, i think more frequent trt lab work after your dialed in, other than a pre/post injection like i have to do is a waste of money and time.


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## John Ziegler (Jan 25, 2018)

Or even lets say you get the test and it shows you barely in range just high enough to disqualify

That test being taken first thing in the morning right when its highest 

Then a guy goes off thinking oh doc says im fine in the testosterone department 

Not knowing later on that day he could fall short of the in range 

You know ?


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## John Ziegler (Jan 25, 2018)

Pre endogenous injecting that is 

speaking qualification for trt


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 26, 2018)

You won't see big fluctuations between Monday and Friday at the same times of the day. But you will see differences by time of day. Your test should be highest in the morning and decreases as the day goes on. 

We already know that much. 

So if blood is taken at 8am from a patient who woke recently then no I don't think more is needed if it shows it's low. If I was the doc and it was borderline I would try clomid.


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## IHI (Jan 26, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> You won't see big fluctuations between Monday and Friday at the same times of the day. But you will see differences by time of day. Your test should be highest in the morning and decreases as the day goes on.
> 
> We already know that much.
> 
> So if blood is taken at 8am from a patient who woke recently then no I don't think more is needed if it shows it's low. If I was the doc and it was borderline I would try clomid.



Thats what doc 3 of 7 tried, urologist, ran 50mg ed for a month, retested, went from the 190 total that he tested before clomid, to 436. He Said great, your cured and in the normal range; ill see you in a month to retest since i want you to stop taking clomid now. T crashed again and even at 436 (the highest clomid result), i felt little to no different than i did at prior testing of 210 and 190....but he said, and I literally quoted, “you should feel great, your well into the normal range for your age”


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## ECKSRATED (Jan 27, 2018)

How big of a fluctuating from morning to night pillar? Like 20-50? Or we talking 100s?


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## Flyingdragon (Jan 27, 2018)

Posted this on another forum, no one made 1 comment so maybe its not important....

I am going to try this next time I get tested for my Test levels....


https://www.salon.com/2018/01/10/scientific-study-suggests-ibuprofen-linked-to-male-infertility/


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## BigJohnny (Jan 27, 2018)

Flyingdragon said:


> Posted this on another forum, no one made 1 comment so maybe its not important....
> 
> I am going to try this next time I get tested for my Test levels....
> 
> ...


Pretty scary read for those of us with a inflammatory disease. I have to take 1600mg of ibuprofen or 1000mg of naproxen everyday! Of course, I’m already on trt but the cardiovascular risks in this article scares me.


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 27, 2018)

IHI said:


> Thats what doc 3 of 7 tried, urologist, ran 50mg ed for a month, retested, went from the 190 total that he tested before clomid, to 436. He Said great, your cured and in the normal range; ill see you in a month to retest since i want you to stop taking clomid now. T crashed again and even at 436 (the highest clomid result), i felt little to no different than i did at prior testing of 210 and 190....but he said, and I literally quoted, “you should feel great, your well into the normal range for your age”


Many patients report not feeling good even when clomid brings them up to the 700 range. Clearly, HOW you increase T matters just as much as the increase itself.

A well known hospital here in the UK was actually prescribing clomid mono for younger patients wishing to maintain fertility. A good idea on paper. The problem was, these folks still had the similar symptoms even with good bloodwork, making the process kind of pointless. Then you have the fact that clomid doesn't do much at all to help restore natural production in IHH patients (2 trials I'm aware of using it as a restart, both reported poor results). They discontinued the trial soon after.

What I'm saying is, if a patient is young and wishes to preserve fertility then hCG mono is a better choice IMO. Otherwise straight to TRT.


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## Jin (Jan 27, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Many patients report not feeling good even when clomid brings them up to the 700 range. Clearly, HOW you increase T matters just as much as the increase itself.
> 
> A well known hospital here in the UK was actually prescribing clomid mono for younger patients wishing to maintain fertility. A good idea on paper. The problem was, these folks still had the similar symptoms even with good bloodwork, making the process kind of pointless. Then you have the fact that clomid doesn't do much at all to help restore natural production in IHH patients (2 trials I'm aware of using it as a restart, both reported poor results). They discontinued the trial soon after.
> 
> What I'm saying is, if a patient is young and wishes to preserve fertility then hCG mono is a better choice IMO. Otherwise straight to TRT.



200's. Clomid mono for 2 years up to low 500's but low t symptoms worsened by a lot. 

Did hcg mono for 5 months which relieved my low t symptoms but only had me in the low 400 range. 

As as always I agree with Mr. R


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## ECKSRATED (Jan 27, 2018)

Jin said:


> 200's. Clomid mono for 2 years up to low 500's but low t symptoms worsened by a lot.
> 
> Did hcg mono for 5 months which relieved my low t symptoms but only had me in the low 400 range.
> 
> As as always I agree with Mr. R



That's interesting. Did those studies show any other negative effects from the clomid?? 

I meant to quote zillas post. My bad lol


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 27, 2018)

ECKSRATED said:


> That's interesting. Did those studies show any other negative effects from the clomid??


The stuff I saw from the 90s reported negative sides as does anecdotal evidence. Yet most studies these days have reported very little sides. Hell, some have reported zero side effects on long term treatment... 
My hunch, which is a good hunch based on track record, says that 3rd party/funding interests are making the recent clomid studies much more "user friendly" than reality. Hypogonadal symptoms are subjective enough anyway so it wouldn't be too difficult to make a form of treatment look a lot better than it really is - science sucks sometimes 

Having said that, paper from last year:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508437/
- TRT vs Clomid. 
- Clomid lead to *reduced* libido. In other words, these dudes were hornier when they were hypogonadal then when TT normalized with clomid. This alone makes me extremely skeptical of it's role in TRT treatment.


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