# never do this sort of thing but what the hell...critique this!!



## Cobra Strike (Nov 7, 2014)

So guys as a few of you know Ive been running stupid doses of gear for stupid lengths of time. After my last run of tren e & a/winny/mast e/test e/var and damaging my liver to the point that it was not able to properly metabolize efficiently and causing me to have high bilirubin levels and yellow eyes I have came off everything and am just running trt. Liver values are all back to normal now and yellow eyes have been gone for a few weeks. So ive decided to just chill for a few months like this (which is hard as **** for me). For my next cycle I want to run a mild one to give my body a rest from the beatdown I just gave it. Ive decided to actually figure out my next bulk cycle here for mid jan. early feb.  I never actually figure out my cycles so this is somewhat new...maybe a tad bit fun since all I am doing is waiting and getting bored lol I cant promise my dosages or even compounds will stay the same because im bipolar as **** but right now this is where I am going to start.


*30 week Bulk Cycle*

*Week 1-30*

Test e @ 800mg/week
Deca @ 800mg/week
Mast e @ 800mg/week
Aromasin @ 25mg/day
Hcg @ 500iu/week

*Week 1-5, 11-15, 21-25*

Hygetropin (5days on/2 days off) @ 4iu am/4iu post work out - Sub-Q

IGF-1LR3 Work out days @ 100mcg post workout –IM
Non Work out days @ 100mcg am –IM
T4 @ 100mcg per day
(forskolin and t-100 supplementation to aid in thyroid support)
(selenium,zinc, copper supplementation to aid in t4 conversion)

*Week 6-10, 16-20, 26-30*

Humalog Work out days only @ 8-12iu post work out –IM
5 min after Humalog drink shake w/10g creatine/10g glutamine/7g dextrose per iu –add in 50g
protein
75 min after Humalog eat 40g protein/40g carbs/no fats
Hygetropin Work out days only (5days on/2 days off) @ 3iu am/3iu after lunch


what yall think? Honest opinions harsh or not I dont mind


----------



## TheLupinator (Nov 7, 2014)

I dont know shit about IGF or Slin, but the cycle looks good. maybe less deca (or more test), but solid and pretty mild considering no tren or winny. good luck brother


----------



## NbleSavage (Nov 7, 2014)

Cheers, Brother.

Good on ya' for giving your body a chance to bounce back.

The test & deca look great IMO for a long bulker. Not clear on the Mast though in a bulk - you may be running this just for an added boost of intensity and libido (which is fine IMO if thats your intent). 

500 HCG seems a touch high & could put pressure on your E2, however your Stane dosage (which is the same as I run mine at) and the Mast might negate this side. I typically run 250 IU HCG just to keep the Boys happy and to keep me thyroid stimulated.

On the GH, I prefer to run 7 days instead of the 5 on 2 off. Is this (the proposed 2 days off per week) for cost savings?

I'll defer on the Slin as I've not run it myself previously.

Good on ya' Mate. 

Peace.

- Savage


----------



## Yaya (Nov 7, 2014)

Wow, scary... 

How long is a "stupid lengths of time"? And did you take any liver support supplements during this long cycle?

I assume it was the winstrol, anavar.. and maybe even the tren e.. 

IMO tren is toxic and will effect the liver to a point


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 7, 2014)

Lup - In not the type that gets the deca dick. Ive ran deca higher than my test before and was still feeling great. Im assuming thats why you suggested to increase my test?

Nble.....I like your opinions on the hcg...I will drop it down to 250iu per week and give it a shot. The one thing I hate about hcg is the massive effect it has on my E2. That coupled with the test and deca doesnt help the situation either. The mast I am running because it seems to always balance out my moods while on a cycle. Just gives me that overall feel good feeling. I never use the mast for anti e purposes because its never done anything to help with me estro before but I do like that it doesnt add to my estro as well. I also like the potentiating effects it has on the test and the hardness it gives my muscles. Im doing a clean bulk with this so I am planning on minimal water gain and with being lean already I believe the mast will still have an asthetic effect. About the gh, there are always going to be varying opinions on this but my reasons for 5on/2off are mainly to protect my endogenous production. In my experience with gh I didnt find any added benefit to using it every day. By giving my body 2 days off allows for my endogenous production a chance to be released naturally. I also dont want to make my receptors insensitive to the exo gh. I know that is a whole other topic as well lol Then ofcourse there is the added benefit of saving money but thats not my drive..just icing on the cake. 

Yaya...I ran all that shit for over a year at very high dosages. I believe I was around 3-4g a week for that whole time. Tren e and the winny were the main culprits. Both are methylated. The var didnt help but I dont believe that was one of the big players in the problem..simply being an oral doesnt nexessarily warrant liver damage. Ive taken var before and it never messed with my liver values very much. Your right YaYa tren is very toxic but I dont thi k there is "to a point" as far as liver damage or organ damage...if you never stop taking it the damage will be exponential and infinite until the damage is irreversible. For all the newbs reading this...this is why bloodwork is so important. Before my eyes started to tint and even after I felt great on a daily basis...without blood work and the major sign of a problem I could have ruined my liver. I still love tren and will absolutely run it again but this time not be so stupid about it lol

Thanks for all your replies guys...I appreciate the input!!!


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 7, 2014)

Wow that turned into a book...fukin adderall haha sorry yall

Oh and to answer your question YaYa yes i was taking tumeric/selenium/silibinin/vit c/milk thistle for liver protection and support.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2014)

Cobra, I'm not gonna try and talk you out of this seeing as you're a big boy, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get bloods often and look after your health. Another board I'm on has a member doing a "heart attack sale" of the gear he has left. Just keep an eye on those lipids, the liver enzymes, HCT/RBC, etc. I hope this cycle is everything you want it to be while keeping you healthy. 

Have you thought of more frequent but smaller pins of HCG? I'm hearing many good anecdotal reports from people who are pinning 100IU of HCG daily. Just a thought. Best of luck to you on this cycle


----------



## grizzldsealpoacher (Nov 7, 2014)

That sir is impressive I do not posses the nueces to run such a blast but it looks solid good luck with it


----------



## PillarofBalance (Nov 7, 2014)

Well if you die you will look damn good in the casket!

Consider metformin on slin off days at all?


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 7, 2014)

Hey doc...ya i was getting bloods every month for the first 8 months and everything checked out good. I was at the top end of liver values but wasnt concerned. Then i started slacking on it and didnt get them done again till I noticed the yellow tint. Alt was 475 and ast was 300 something...my doc said it wasnt serious but I need to drop to trt and that my values would return to normal quick since I dont drink and im younger. He was right. But still embarrassing to make eye contact with people and you look like you got the hep lol
I havnt thought about smaller but more frequent hcg doses. At this point I dont really want to make the pinning schedule more complicated then I have it as im already pinning a more times a day then I like...but I def will consider that. What kinds of things has the info you seen told you?

POB I have not thought about metformin either. I am very curious now though...can you give me a basic explanation to the benefit of it?

Great responses guys...lovin the feedback!


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2014)

Cobra Strike said:


> Hey doc...ya i was getting bloods every month for the first 8 months and everything checked out good. I was at the top end of liver values but wasnt concerned. Then i started slacking on it and didnt get them done again till I noticed the yellow tint. Alt was 475 and ast was 300 something...my doc said it wasnt serious but I need to drop to trt and that my values would return to normal quick since I dont drink and im younger. He was right. But still embarrassing to make eye contact with people and you look like you got the hep lol
> I havnt thought about smaller but more frequent hcg doses. At this point I dont really want to make the pinning schedule more complicated then I have it as im already pinning a more times a day then I like...but I def will consider that. What kinds of things has the info you seen told you?
> 
> POB I have not thought about metformin either. I am very curious now though...can you give me a basic explanation to the benefit of it?
> ...



Regarding the HCG I have heard that it keeps the E2 spike to a minimum or gets rid of it completely. E2 will still go up just not as much or as fast. Also it seems to help keep atrophy away and promotes recovery a bit better but these are just anecdotal reports so far. I haven't seen anything scientific about it besides Dr. Crisler trying it with some of his patients. 

Metformin will help maintain your insulin sensitivity while taking it exogenously. When you take it exogenously and especially in large amounts your insulin sensitivity can drop tremendously. Metformin will help maintain it. I've also seen it recommended you take ALA alongside metformin as it's another insulin sensitizer and works great alongside metformin.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Nov 7, 2014)

Metformin in a slin user works the same as a type 2 diabetic. Increases insulin sensitivity.  On my off days I use 250mg morning and night. Then take for a week straight at the same dose after stopping slin use.

I don't worry about going hypo and dying because eating carbs is pretty damn easy.  It's the potential decrease in insulin sensitivity that worries me.


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 7, 2014)

I was thinking that metformin had some effect on a non diabetic that I didnt know about lol I work with diabetics all the time bringing them out of their comas so I am very familiar with insulin and metformin but thought I was missing something there...either way I still didnt think about it but I am now. So you only take it for a week after insulin use has ceased?

Thanks for the explanation doc. If im not happy with my estro levels I will switch to this method to see if the levels change any. Good tip!

Thanks guys!


----------



## FreeBirdSam (Nov 7, 2014)

I skimmed over this thread rather quickly so may have missed it, but I didn't see NAC in your arsenal of organ support supps.  Is there a reason why?  I personally have managed my liver values with NAC alone. ..  never had the need for anything else because it does such a great job.   Keep the water intake high also as I'm sure you're already aware of but the new readers need to hear it too!   Good luck brother!


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 7, 2014)

Free bird....yea I am aware of nac but if the products I used werent enough to blunt the damage nac wouldnt have made a difference. These vitamins are the same they use to help people with hepatitis and cirrhosis..tren and winny chewed em up and spit them out like bubble gum lol once you sustain that high of a dose for that long your just asking for something to go wrong. I got lucky mine was a simple fix. I drank 2 gallons of water a day and my kidney values never moved a point so that is good advice bro


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2014)

Cobra Strike said:


> Free bird....yea I am aware of nac but if the products I used werent enough to blunt the damage nac wouldnt have made a difference. These vitamins are the same they use to help people with hepatitis and cirrhosis..tren and winny chewed em up and spit them out like bubble gum lol once you sustain that high of a dose for that long your just asking for something to go wrong. I got lucky mine was a simple fix. I drank 2 gallons of water a day and my kidney values never moved a point so that is good advice bro




You gonna keep a lot of this run Cobra?  I'd be interested in see img your results, blood work, etc brother.


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 7, 2014)

Im not very good at keeping logs doc but im expecting this bulk to change the way I look in a night and day difference. I wont be starting this until feb 1 either. Im going to get as lean as I can before I get into as well. Not a fan of posting pics of myself on the net either haha but a log definitely could give me motivation to say no to that peanut butter cup so in that case I think it would be worth it. 

Btw this is not a cycle I will be training myself on. Ya ive figured out what I want to do but this time im going to get more serious about my diet and training then I have ever been in my life. I want to see what I can make myself into by giving my all in every aspect instead of 75% in like Ive always done. Ive hired a 13 time NPC bodybiulding champ to coach me through. He has not seen my cycle yet but I can almost garantee he will be changing things around. Im very excited to get my cut going as he will be coaching me through that as well!


----------



## woodswise (Nov 9, 2014)

Cobra:

This is one of the most informative threads I have read on AAS.  Thanks for starting it and sharing with us.


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 9, 2014)

Cobra Strike said:


> Im not very good at keeping logs doc but im expecting this bulk to change the way I look in a night and day difference. I wont be starting this until feb 1 either. Im going to get as lean as I can before I get into as well. Not a fan of posting pics of myself on the net either haha but a log definitely could give me motivation to say no to that peanut butter cup so in that case I think it would be worth it.
> 
> Btw this is not a cycle I will be training myself on. Ya ive figured out what I want to do but this time im going to get more serious about my diet and training then I have ever been in my life. I want to see what I can make myself into by giving my all in every aspect instead of 75% in like Ive always done. Ive hired a 13 time NPC bodybiulding champ to coach me through. He has not seen my cycle yet but I can almost garantee he will be changing things around. Im very excited to get my cut going as he will be coaching me through that as well!



I'm not a fan of putting my pics up either Cobra. A log can definitely he helpful. I know POB has asked I keep one and since he is I'm charge of my programming I ask 'how high' lol. Thinking about me having to post what I'm doing makes me work twice as hard in the gym. I don't want to make posts filled with excuses about "I missed the last rep bc I had a bad day" etc. No, I want to post that I killed it getting that last rep in. If you do decide to make a log I will definitely be watching and reading it with a keen eye. 

I think a prime, by getting as lean as possible, before such a cycle is an awesome idea. There's some method to the madness behind this I believe and it could set you up for an amazing run. Another good idea in hiring a coach. Sometimes we just can't see things objectively in our own training or diet or we can't see things clearly and we need another set of eyes to help us. Sounds like a good coach so I expect some crazy ass results come February!


----------



## curtisvill (Nov 9, 2014)

this cycle is beyond my pay grade.  i am in aw.


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 10, 2014)

All good points there doc and I will consider pics. The shitty thing is about this is ya its smart to lean out first but im also going to shrink down to about 200-210 especially since im doing my cut with only a trt dosage. My ego beats me up


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 10, 2014)

Cobra Strike said:


> All good points there doc and I will consider pics. The shitty thing is about this is ya its smart to lean out first but im also going to shrink down to about 200-210 especially since im doing my cut with only a trt dosage. My ego beats me up



Don't worry about pics brother bc I don't know if I'll ever post them myself and many others don't as well. I would suggest at least doing the log thing though even if you don't constantly update it. 

Look at the glass half full man....at 200-210 I bet you'll be shredded, not just lean lol. We all need to check our ego from time to time and I realize you may lose more mass than you want to but think of when the cycle is all done. You'll be a FUKKING BEAST!!!


----------



## Cobra Strike (Nov 10, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Don't worry about pics brother bc I don't know if I'll ever post them myself and many others don't as well. I would suggest at least doing the log thing though even if you don't constantly update it.
> 
> Look at the glass half full man....at 200-210 I bet you'll be shredded, not just lean lol. We all need to check our ego from time to time and I realize you may lose more mass than you want to but think of when the cycle is all done. You'll be a FUKKING BEAST!!!


Its hard to think of 9 months down the road but your right...its all part of the journey. I always forget about muscle memory too when I cut...shit comes back quick! I think a log can also help me document what happened during this run so in the future I can look back and remember the issues that occured...not only that but allow you guys to be able to critique and give me ideas just like what happened in this thread. A guy never knows it all no matter how much he knows! Get my diet sometime this week and then its on. Went out for my last hoorah last sat...dont plan on drinking for awhile...maybe new years but we will see


----------



## beasto (Jan 18, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Metformin in a slin user works the same as a type 2 diabetic. Increases insulin sensitivity.  On my off days I use 250mg morning and night. Then take for a week straight at the same dose after stopping slin use.
> 
> I don't worry about going hypo and dying because eating carbs is pretty damn easy.  It's the potential decrease in insulin sensitivity that worries me.



POB, shit I learned something new today!! Much love bro!!!!!!


----------



## wabbitt (Jan 18, 2015)

Good luck and please don't die.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 19, 2015)

shows alot of maturity on your part to realize to slow the fuk down...nobody wants to lose a great bro like u..I dont even wanna think about losing u


----------



## bitterStrength (Jan 19, 2015)

It would be very cool of you to keep a log on here for others to follow and learn. I know I would learn a thing or two.


----------



## Cobra Strike (Jan 19, 2015)

Well my coach and I are re working my slin protocol....we are moving to twice a day instead of once...that will be interesting. My doc also upped my metformin dose to 500mg twice a day vs 250mg. 

I just hate doing logs because gains are slow which tends  to make the log boring ha


----------



## Cobra Strike (Jan 19, 2015)

Maybe i will just post updates on this thread lol

So the leaning up didnt quite go as expected. Ive dropped down to about 10% bf but i did it without losing much weight. I think i lost maybe 4lbs. I only dropped to 225. Long story short I am extremely happy with my coach...the guy knows his shit. He has already pushed me to do a mens physique...said at my weight and leanness i could do a prep diet, walk on a stage for the first time of my life and take first place. I told him to **** off. Im not doing any gay ass mens physique show...especially when he just got done poking fun at that a few days previous on fb. Mens physique is basically the bottom of the barrel bb shows. Im working on this at a professional level, not a half ass check out my abs bullshit level. 

 Started the bulk cycle last monday. Test e 1100/deca 1100/bold cyp 900/npp 600. Still only eating 2600 cals a day. We are going to slowly up the cals to gain lean muscle only. Been on gh for about 3 months as well. 2iu right when i wake up and 3iu post work out. Still working on the real igf thing but that is coming real soon. Just to give you newer guys an idea of what something like this costs (without adding in food)..with all the vitamins, protien, and supps im looking at putting between 8-10k into this 30 week cycle.

Right now im up about 2lbs in water weight from the gear and weighing 230. We are training for hypertrophy so there really isnt alot of heavy weights...alot of super sets...light weights...4 second negatives...and failure sets.


----------



## Paolos (Jan 19, 2015)

Cobra Strike said:


> Maybe i will just post updates on this thread lol
> 
> So the leaning up didnt quite go as expected. Ive dropped down to about 10% bf but i did it without losing much weight. I think i lost maybe 4lbs. I only dropped to 225. Long story short I am extremely happy with my coach...the guy knows his shit. He has already pushed me to do a mens physique...said at my weight and leanness i could do a prep diet, walk on a stage for the first time of my life and take first place. I told him to **** off. Im not doing any gay ass mens physique show...especially when he just got done poking fun at that a few days previous on fb. Mens physique is basically the bottom of the barrel bb shows. Im working on this at a professional level, not a half ass check out my abs bullshit level.
> 
> ...



Cobra I think you have the cost right on the money (lots of money) and the food will be another 200.00/ wk x 30 weeks= $6K 
Most people don't take the time to run the numbers out and fail to finish!


----------



## Cobra Strike (Jan 19, 2015)

Paolos said:


> Cobra I think you have the cost right on the money (lots of money) and the food will be another 200.00/ wk x 30 weeks= $6K
> Most people don't take the time to run the numbers out and fail to finish!



I agree brother and the funny thing is the most important part of the entire cycle is the food


----------



## bugman (Apr 22, 2015)

How's about an update??


----------



## hulksmash (Apr 24, 2015)

More than I would do, Cobra...

Keep your health first and K.I.S.S.


----------



## ken Sass (Apr 25, 2015)

metformin is very hard on the kidney's


----------

