# More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? help



## guitarman35 (Aug 24, 2012)

*More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? help*

Was on HRT 125mg a week test-e for 2.5 years.  I went on HRT for the wrong reasons and really want to try getting off of it.  Had a sperm test and count was extremely low. 2.4mil with average being 20-150...

I had my last shot a week ago wednesday and my doc will not put me on any PCT as he doesn't think it is needed... He wants to retest my test/count in a month..  Worried 1 month delay could do perm harm...

I've read a ton of conflicting data of course...  Seeing HCG is probably hard to get and I'm already done with my long cycle, I was thinking Clomid and Nolv for a month and skipping the Letro because I wouldn't be using HCG...

But then I hear Clom/Nolv alone won't be enough!  

Should I get another few shots and try to get HCG and follow cash's exit plan,
or start HCG now without getting more test,
or just start clom/nolv with some natty stuff like trib?

So confused... I just want to try to restore old test levels, and get my sperm count up for baby making!!  

Freaking the heck out at the 2.4mil sperm count, with a lot of immature sperm.

I am 35, 10%bf 180lbs, clean diet, lots of sleep, non smoker... 

Sorry if there is ramble here, I feel this is life or death as I would be crushed if I couldnt have healthy kids.


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## sfstud33 (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Ok, some advice for you.

Being on HRT does not mean you can't have kids. This is likely to be a journey with your doctor trying a number of different things until he has found what works for you. At the moment i guess he is trying to get you natty to see what your sperm production will look like.  If it does not improve, or your T levels dont come back, its likely he will adjust course and look at some changes to the plan.

There are many men that have issues with sperm production that go on to produce plenty of healthy children. So you may want to talk to your doctor about various treatment options there are and his idea for when you should be trying them. Ask him to give you a calendar or sequence of treatments that he is likely going to try. That way you can measure your progress against the various treatment options and also find out if he is intending to try HCG or something else - and when. 

If i were in your shoes id be asking my doctor what the next six months are going to look like.


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## guitarman35 (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Ok, I was under the impression it was RUSH PCT or you risk permanent low test/fertility...  Of note, my doctor is a family doctor, not a hrt doc or endo... Crisler is close to me, but $500 out of pocket just to walk in his door and there are mixed reviews on him...

So PCT can be started months down the road even?


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## j2048b (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Cashout has a great thread over on ology, i cant find the link right now so hopefully cashout will chime in or someone else will link the thread for u so u can see what he did and recommends and he was on trt for a while!

He is the one to ask!

Sorry i cant link it right now but it is very detailed with nolva/clomid/hcg and a few other items!


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## guitarman35 (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

I did read his full log... Was just reading not to do HCG unless you do it during your cycle or immediately after.. I will be 2+ weeks after my last 125mg injection soon, and have none on hand, nor know where to get that.  Clom/Nolv, etc.. easy, but also dont want to home inject.  Doc has done all my test.


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## Cashout (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

You need to do a full restart to give yourself the best opportunity to reestablish a healthy HPTA. If you are able, I would strongly recommend you follow the protocol I described in the link provided by Dfeaton above.

I've used it successfully on myself and a few other folks here and on Ology. One of whom had a sperm count as low as you and he was and his wife were actually able to conceive some months back


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## creekrat (Aug 25, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Relax and listen to Cash. He is the man to talk to about this bro.  Remember that undue stress will lower sperm counts as well. Wish you and the wife good luck.


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## guitarman35 (Aug 28, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Thanks all..  The main problem is I am going to a Doc who I feel doesn't know anything about HRT and just wants me to wait it all out.   I will most likely have to do this on my own by the looks of it and I am not comfortable injecting.  I could drop crazy cash to see Dr. Crisler if you feel that is far and above a needed step for me to get on HCG.

My concern is not finding anything saying to take HCG after you have already stopped Test.  I've been off everything for 2 weeks and have some (2.4m sperm).  He gave me zero HCG during my 2.5 years of 125mg week test injections.  Seems like running HCG now would suppress it further?  Not true?

If I didn't use HCG, I wouldn't need Letro right?

But Clomid/Nolv isn't enough for me now?

I'm taking trib and zma only right now.. Can't find HCG, but can find clomid/Nolv/letro...

Is the longer I wait, the worse off I am?


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## guitarman35 (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Had blood drawn today.  Checking for total test, free, dht, lh, and one other...

Hopefully I have that soon and can update.  Was tempted to just order clomid/nolv and do my own darn PT, which I still may after the blood work comes in and I compare it to my PRE HRT bloodwork from 2.5 years ago.   Calming down a little bit here.

Just hoping I can talk him into tabs so I don't have to mess with liquid and hopefully insurance covers clomid/nolv prescription.


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## Rip (Aug 30, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

I've done my own before. My Dr. doesn't have a clue, when it comes to AI and/or PCT.


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## Lulu66 (Sep 2, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Just do it on your own. It will be cheaper, and imo safer, since your doc doesnt know what hes dealing with. You souldnt need letro, just clomid, nolva and hcg. The knly thing you have to inject is the hcg, and that is done with insulin pins, once you do it one you are going to laugh at yourself for giving it a second tough. Gl, and keep us informed.


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## guitarman35 (Sep 4, 2012)

*Re: More confused.. already quit HRT cold turkey, skip HCG and Letro and do only clom/nolv? hel*

Thanks guys.  tests came back and test was 230, free was 2.9.  I didn't see any LH etc on the report, only ast, alt, alkaline phosphetase, protein total ,albumin, all of which were in normal range.
My pre HRT back in March 2010 was Total test: 550, Free 6.9.  So I am about 1/2 what I was, but I am only 2 weeks off HRT...  He is going to do Clom/Nolv for me now, so I'll retest in about a month.

HCG may be easy, but no idea where to get.. Also being suppressive I didn't know if I should start it up now that I am almost 3 weeks post shot.. I could ask him to do a week of shots I suppose when I talk to him today.


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