# Deca



## snake (May 18, 2017)

Can someone please, once and for all clear up the Deca/NNP controversy as it relates to collagen synthesis. If there's one topic I think is laden with broscience, it's this one. I have looked for some facts and all I can find is stuff like this.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/002604959090089U

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/036354659202000305

Hell I even read someplace it can REDUCE collagen synthesis.


----------



## Bro Bundy (May 18, 2017)

.................sorry no scientific proof I have for this thread


----------



## Milo (May 18, 2017)

Never had any joint pain so cant say. I just wish it did something for god damn tendonitis.


----------



## BigSwolePump (May 18, 2017)

Milo said:


> Never had any joint pain so cant say. I just wish it did something for god damn tendonitis.


Shit, if there is ever something that works on tendons like deca does for joints, Id be all over that.


----------



## bvs (May 18, 2017)

I never noticed any huge joint effect from deca although maybe thats because im fairly young still. But i love deca none the less, its a great compound


----------



## ECKSRATED (May 18, 2017)

Nandy will rub her pussy juices all over your joints and lube them up nicely.


----------



## Mind2muscle (May 18, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> snake before i used nand my joints were clicking,painful and always causing me issues..After the first few injection i noticed a huge difference..years after that cycle my joints are still much better then they were before..



That's how my joints are currently.  Got some chronic pain in my right shoulder, lower back and left knee. I've always thought about trying deca but thought the effects wouldn't last once it's discontinued.  
Snap crackle,pop!


----------



## ECKSRATED (May 18, 2017)

bvs said:


> I never noticed any huge joint effect from deca although maybe thats because im fairly young still. But i love deca none the less, its a great compound



U don't really lift heavy tho do u? Not talking any numbers I'm just taking in general. Like heavy singles and doubles and triples? If u do then you'll definitely have some achy joints from it and deca will def help


----------



## ECKSRATED (May 18, 2017)

Mind2muscle said:


> That's how my joints are currently.  Got some chronic pain in my right shoulder, lower back and left knee. I've always thought about trying deca but thought the effects wouldn't last once it's discontinued.
> Snap crackle,pop!



Me and Bundy talk about that all the time, I had a lingering shoulder injury that wouldn't go away for about two years. It was bad. Its the reason I started taking any type of steroid. First cycle was deca and test and completely healed my shoulder even when I came off.


----------



## John Ziegler (May 18, 2017)

Have used the nandrolone a lot back in the 90's before any joint pain was an issue so I can't attest to that yet.

But I will say that this, trt has dramatically helped the clicking and randomly sharp shooting pain in my ankle.


----------



## BiologicalChemist (May 18, 2017)

I've read studues like this before too snake. We have over 16 types of collagen in our body the most important and most abundant are types 1, 2 and 3. Type 1 being most common, then type 2, then type 3. Our body synthesis a natural ratio of these types of colleges that are laid out in a certain pattern that produces tensile strength and support. I've read certain compounds like Deca can disrupt this normal ratio/production of the collagen types, for example an increased synthesis in collagen type 3 over type 1. Which may or may not in the long run have some negative effect. I've also read certain compounds such as winstrol can disrupt the normal synthesis pattern or layout of collagen types, for example linear synthesis vs cross linked mesh synthesis which eventually can cause brittle tendons that are more prone to snap. 


If you don't like Deca maybe it would be beneficial at your age to hop on a therapeutic dose of HGH?


----------



## MrRippedZilla (May 18, 2017)

Guys, seriously. 

Snake posted this in the science section because he was hoping someone could give him an answer based on evidence.  Not a bunch of broscience,  anecdotal reports, which he made pretty clear is not what he's looking for. I don't want to sound like a dick but come on man - read the OP.

As bc said, you'll find that most forms of AAS have mixed data when it comes to collagen synthesis/breakdown and it has alot to do with various types. I'll take a look at your references when I'm home Snake and chime in where I can


----------



## snake (May 18, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> If you don't like Deca maybe it would be beneficial at your age to hop on a therapeutic dose of HGH?



I wish I had the money and access to that but I agree 100%


----------



## snake (May 18, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Guys, seriously.
> 
> Snake posted this in the science section because he was hoping someone could give him an answer based on evidence.  Not a bunch of broscience,  anecdotal reports, which he made pretty clear is not what he's looking for. I don't want to sound like a dick but come on man - read the OP.
> 
> As bc said, you'll find that most forms of AAS have mixed data when it comes to collagen synthesis/breakdown and it has alot to do with various types. I'll take a look at your references when I'm home Snake and chime in where I can



Thanks Zilla! Yeah I knew even if I put "Hold the Bro Science" I was still going to get some. It's alright, they are only trying to help what BC had to offer was closer to what I need. Also figured you'd have some good input. Just give me the cliff note version of the Zilla answer. lol


----------



## Bro Bundy (May 18, 2017)

bunch of bro science talking motherfukkers!


----------



## MrRippedZilla (May 23, 2017)

snake said:


> Bump Zilla!



Sorry man, it's a been a busy few weeks 

I'm going to ignore the second study you posted because it's in rats and its relevance to us is extremely minimal. The first study however shows the positive impact of nandrolone in women via an increase in serum PIIINP, which indicates increased collagen III synthesis, but note that total collagen synthesis and the effect on BMD (bone mineral density) were not looked at. This limits the importance of the results quite a bit and keep in mind that by the time they got to the 12 month point of the study, PIINP levels were trending back to baseline. This suggests that the positive effects of deca may be short term only. This leads us to...

A follow up paper showing positive, *transient,* results in men. I haven't had a chance to hunt down the full paper but the abstract basically suggests that deca only increases bone mineral density (BMD) over the short term (at 12 months BMD measurements had returned to baseline despite ongoing treatment). I speculate that the only reason the women's results didn't return to complete baseline at the same time point was because 50mg of deca has a bigger impact on them than us - obvious when you think about it. 
So far, 2 papers suggesting the beneficial effects of deca for the joints appear to be short term only. 

Then we have an interesting paper looking at *experienced bodybuilders*, at least 3 yrs of training 4xweek, and investigating the effects of 200/wk of deca for 8 weeks total. They found no difference in bone mineral content or bone density vs placebo. Of course this was only an 8 week study, but worth keeping in mind nonetheless. 

Finally, here they investigated the potential for deca and/or test to help counteract the negative effects of glucocorticoid therapy. 
We've got 51 dudes (aged around 60ish), 200mg of Sustanon vs 200mg of deca administed every 2 weeks over the course of 12 months. The result? Sustanon had a positive impact on lumbar spine BMD while Deca didn't have an impact on anything.  In fact, when it came to lumbar spine BMD, the results are very similar to what we observed in the previous paper in terms of Deca increasing BMD at the 6 month point but not at the 12 month point. *Transient *effect pretty much confirmed. 

So, there you go. 4 papers in different groups showing that nandrolone's positive impact on our joints is, at best, only for the short term. 
The impact on total collagen synthesis is more difficult to decipher because you cannot measure this in vivo AFAIK and, honestly, we don't have enough data on individual collagen markers to make a conclusion either way.


----------



## silvereyes87 (May 23, 2017)

Damn that was a nice write up zilla . Thanks for the info man


----------



## ToolSteel (May 24, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Sorry man, it's a been a busy few weeks
> 
> I'm going to ignore the second study you posted because it's in rats and its relevance to us is extremely minimal. The first study however shows the positive impact of nandrolone in women via an increase in serum PIIINP, which indicates increased collagen III synthesis, but note that total collagen synthesis and the effect on BMD (bone mineral density) were not looked at. This limits the importance of the results quite a bit and keep in mind that by the time they got to the 12 month point of the study, PIINP levels were trending back to baseline. This suggests that the positive effects of deca may be short term only. This leads us to...
> 
> ...


----------



## Rip (May 24, 2017)

I had a shot of cortisone for my tendonitis and it went away and never came back..



Milo said:


> Never had any joint pain so can't say. I just wish it did something for god damn tendonitis.


----------



## NoQuarter (May 24, 2017)

Very interesting, thanks!


----------

