# T&H's Training Log (lots of running) plus EPO cycle



## TiredandHot (Jul 28, 2022)

With all the new logs popping up, want to get mine started though I've been running a long time (8 years). I feel like an outlier in regards to my training and AAS use, but one thing we have in common is dedication and motivation. I got into running right after I got clean from drugs, it's something I fell in love with. Actually went through a horrendous period of overtraining in 2011-2013, but that's for another thread.

I do lift 3, sometimes 4 days a week but the recent increase in mileage is a lot. Probably cutting back to twice a week just to maintain what I have while I try to get the most out of the epo. 

I know many abhor meso, but I started a log about 7 weeks ago. It's not long nor has a lot of riff raff, so I hope everyone reads it to get a lot of good info.

After trying different aas, orals, and other things like cardarine, I decided to give epo a shot. And bar none, seeing way more benefits from it than everything else combined. I do extensive research, always have and do when something gets my Interest. Has been extremely difficult to find past logs to reference. Biggest danger is too high hematocrit, which you can see from my bloodwork isn't a concern now. I'm thinking since 100% of my running is on concrete, I'm depleting rbc more than usual? Probably going to switch to crit check every 3 weeks. 

Anyway, at the start of my log you will read my legs were feeling fatigued which usually means I need to cut back. But I've not only increased mileage, but pace without really trying. 

This intro post is getting a little long, so gonna cut it short. Running week from Sunday to Friday, Saturday off. Still dosing epo at around 5k iu per week. On schedule for another 40 miles this week. Will include lifting on the days I do. So far this week:


Sunday-6.5 

Monday-7

Tuesday-7

Wednesday-7.5 


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https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/6-week-epo-cycle.134410333/[CODE]
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## TiredandHot (Jul 28, 2022)

Dang, idk how I got this messed up, trying to fix.


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## TODAY (Jul 28, 2022)

This is great, but am I gonna have to keep playing this sidescroller game if I wanna follow along?


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## TiredandHot (Jul 28, 2022)

Fixed, disregard.


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## TiredandHot (Jul 28, 2022)

Sorry everyone, tried to edit my original post and it created a new reply? I don't know what happened, maybe @CJ can fix it.


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## TiredandHot (Jul 28, 2022)

TODAY said:


> This is great, but am I gonna have to keep playing this sidescroller game if I wanna follow along?


Nope, finally got the original post fixed. Should be much easier to read now.

Something of interest I found out in my research, EPO is highly frowned upon on every cycling and endurance forum I searched. You would think they'd have at least a few, but nada.


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## TODAY (Jul 28, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> Nope, finally got the original post fixed. Should be much easier to read now.
> 
> Something of interest I found out in my research, EPO is highly frowned upon on every cycling and endurance forum I searched. You would think they'd have at least a few, but nada.


Yeah, I know fuckall about EPO dosing protocols. 

This should be a fascinating read.


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## Human_Backhoe (Jul 28, 2022)

Following


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## TiredandHot (Jul 29, 2022)

7 miles done, legs initially tired from pushing the pace yesterday but today's run still felt too easy. Running either 6.5 or 7 tomorrow, will hit 41 to 42 for the week. 

FYI, I have NEVER been able to sustain 38 plus mpw for any longer than 3 weeks without a setback. Ever. Last 7 weeks for those who haven't read the log on meso, 35, 35,38, 39, 39, 41, and 41. In addition to running tomorrow, Hitting the gym either tomorrow before running plus Saturday, or Saturday and Sunday.


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## TiredandHot (Jul 30, 2022)

Ended up getting 7 mile in, at a slow recovery pace as my legs are wore out as usual 6 days straight. Makes 42 miles total, most ever in 8 plus years.

Slept awful last night, didn't make it to the gym. Saturday has been my one day off all training, but I haven't hit the weights since Monday. Really need to go...I'll see how I sleep and feel tomorrow. Next update will be Sunday.

Y'all have a great weekend.


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## TiredandHot (Aug 1, 2022)

Hit the gym sat and Sunday. Slept terrible Friday, but pushed thru it and worked out regardless. Love the gym on the weekend, it's dead. 

Got 6.75 in today, slow miles. Legs still fatigued from last week. Thinking I might need a deload week from running soon, though I'm not sure how that works since most my mileage is easy. I'm extremely stubborn with my training, I am way more apt to overtrain than undertrain.


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## TiredandHot (Aug 3, 2022)

Yesterday run, 7 miles.

Today's run,  7 miles.

Feeling fatigue build up. Left foot was a little painful at first, but went away shortly Into the run. My natural pace this entire week so far is down. 

Will be monitoring everything a little more and highly consider cutting back very soon. Hate to have to do it right after starting a log, but I've been having great success for a while now. May be time for a little extra recovery.


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## TODAY (Aug 3, 2022)

What sort of sides have you experienced from the EPO?


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## TiredandHot (Aug 3, 2022)

TODAY said:


> What sort of sides have you experienced from the EPO?


Zero. The one guy on PM who was maintaining a great log did write he experienced headaches at times, another guy commented he did as well when running it. I believe they said it could have been a combination of the epo and slight dehydration from sweating more during the summer.

I drink a ton of water, always have. Doing 1,000IU a day now, if I have to cut back my mileage I will cut back or drop the EPO temporarily. Been 2 weeks since bloodwork, will schedule a hematocrit check next week. I don't expect it to be too high, hoping to break into the 50s this time.


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## TiredandHot (Aug 4, 2022)

I hate the summer in the SE, hate it.  Got 7 miles in, soaking wet but thankfully the lightning was way off in the distance. Looking forward to fall and winter...much cooler, less daily pop up storms, and can do speed training!


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## TiredandHot (Aug 6, 2022)

Got in 7 yesterday, 7.3 today. Total of 42 miles for this week, matched the same last week. Average pace is a little better this week, despite feeling fatigued. I pushed thru it, tomorrow is off running. 

Hit gym today, planning on next 2 days as well. Next post Sunday, hoping legs recover and I can start maintaining mileage while getting faster runs. I'm doing enough volume now, wanting to do the same distance faster without too much leg fatigue. Got to get my 8 hours a week running cut down soon.


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## TiredandHot (Aug 11, 2022)

Looks like the amount of miles I've run finally caught up. Had to take some time off this week. Will report any miles I run and also bloodwork soon, had hematocrit drawn today.


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## eazy (Aug 11, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> Had to take some time off this week.


Rest well.


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## TiredandHot (Aug 14, 2022)

Finally got bloods back last night. Ended up with 35 miles for the week, but still dealing with fatigue. 

November 2021- Hematocrit 44 5
February- Hematocrit 44.0
June 14- Hematocrit 47.5 after 20k IU
July 1- Hematocrit 48.8 after 33k IU
July 13- Hematocrit 47.4 after 57k IU
July 27- Hematocrit 48.9 after 70k iu
August 12- Hematocrit 51.9

Hematocrit is a little high, but where I wanted to get around since my running keeps it In Check. I started EQ at 400mg per week about 3 weeks ago. Going to take a break from epo, May take more time off running. 

Anyways, wish I would have started this log here back in June when first starting epo. Going to take a break from updating this, May even start a new one in the future. Take care guys.


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## eazy (Aug 14, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> Going to take a break from updating this


Thank you. This has been interesting.

Enjoy your break from updating this.


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## Slabiathan (Aug 14, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> Finally got bloods back last night. Ended up with 35 miles for the week, but still dealing with fatigue.
> 
> November 2021- Hematocrit 44 5
> February- Hematocrit 44.0
> ...


It's been cool to read! Looking forward to the future one!


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## TiredandHot (Oct 17, 2022)

Just wanted to provide an update.

Still running, last 2 weeks were 42 and 40 miles each. Prior to that, my watch didn't record all my runs but I know I had some down weeks. I started having a pain in my left leg shortly after my last post. Then itb band on the other leg flared up from the altered Gait as a result of the other leg. Seems to have gotten better somewhat. 

Dropped some extra fat and upper bodymuscle in the last month and noticed significant improvements in pace. I usually drop some muscle and do actual tempo/interval training in the winter. Anyways, I'll provide some periodic updates the rest of this year. May run a 5 or 10k after I get a few training sessions in first.


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## TiredandHot (Oct 23, 2022)

Weekly update. 43 miles done last 6 days. Did a few actual training sessions this week to begin progressing. 

6 miles around 10 min mile pace, moderate intensity on Tuesday. 
3 miles around 9 minute mile pace, easy Tempo on Thursday. 

I could have done the above training faster, but I wasn't sure how fatigued and sore my legs would be since this is my first time in a while running faster. I seemed to have handled all the runs fine this week. 

Plan is to repeat the same two sessions this week, except 20-30 seconds faster per mile. All other runs will be easy and recovery pace.


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## TiredandHot (Oct 26, 2022)

Wanted to journal this as I tend to forget, and since I'm finally trying to progress i need to keep track.

Monday-7 miles easy, 11:20 pace. Boring run.
Tuesday-5.25 at 9:40 min mile, rest easy for a total of 8 miles. 

I did the 5.25 miles 30 seconds faster than last week. It was not difficult to maintain, but took focus to keep on track.

After the 8 Miles, feeling like maybe I should have repeated the 10 min mile Instead. Legs feel worn out, hopefully they won't be too sore to do my next workout. My biggest road block to actual training to get faster has been lingering leg soreness. Anyways, I'll update once or twice by Sunday. If legs can go, 3 mile Tempo Thurs or Friday.


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## Send0 (Oct 26, 2022)

So from an endurance perspective, how does EPO compare to cardarine? 

I know on cardarine I can run, or do any form of cardio, and not feel fatigued at all. EQ gave me similar stamina for work loads, but it had diminishing returns as my RBC increased.


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## TiredandHot (Oct 26, 2022)

Send0 said:


> So from an endurance perspective, how does EPO compare to cardarine?
> 
> I know on cardarine I can run, or do any form of cardio, and not feel fatigued at all. EQ gave me similar stamina for work loads, but it had diminishing returns as my RBC increased.


When I used cardarine years ago, I didn't notice much at all. However, I recently placed an order and should have some in a few weeks. I'll be sure to try it once i establish my 2 day hard workout training like I'm beginning on now. I think I used it when doing easy and not hard runs.

I've been off EPO for 3 weeks now. And to be honest, I'm making improvements off like I was when on. I did easily jump to 40 miles per week when I began it tho.


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## Send0 (Oct 26, 2022)

I used to be a fast runner. In high school I averaged around 5:10-5:15 when doing cross country (3 mile runs), and for the 1 mile on track I could hit sub 5 minutes. I hated it, but I'm naturally good at it. The cardarine just made it so I didn't hate myself while doing it.

I've run within the last year, after not training for over a decade, and averaged 6:20 miles over the course of a 5 mile run. I hated every second 😂.

It sucks that I absolutely hate the thing I'm actually good at.


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## TiredandHot (Oct 26, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I used to be a fast runner. In high school I averaged around 5:10-5:15 when doing cross country (3 mile runs), and for the 1 mile on track I could hit sub 5 minutes. I hated it, but I'm naturally good at it. The cardarine just made it so I didn't hate myself while doing it.
> 
> I've run within the last year, after not training for over a decade, and averaged 6:20 miles over the course of a 5 mile run. I hated every second 😂.
> 
> It sucks that I absolutely hate the thing I'm actually good at.


That's crazy, you definitely have some genetics for it. My first 5k I ran like 25:30. And it took years of training to get 21:45 which was my PB before overtraining and Taking 4 years off.

Even now with a huge base of 40 mpw, I guess my 5k time today would be 24 minutes or so even with a ton of running, haha. I'm not gifted as a fast runner, but I've learned to be content and enjoy it now. I used to be way too competitive with myself.


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## Send0 (Oct 26, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> That's crazy, you definitely have some genetics for it. My first 5k I ran like 25:30. And it took years of training to get 21:45 which was my PB before overtraining and Taking 4 years off.
> 
> Even now with a huge base of 40 mpw, I guess my 5k time today would be 24 minutes or so even with a ton of running, haha. I'm not gifted as a fast runner, but I've learned to be content and enjoy it now. I used to be way too competitive with myself.


It's crazy to me that people enjoy running 😂. I mean maybe it's because of where I live. It's so hot and humid here 80% of the year... Like Satan's crotch or armpit or something.

The stamina did help me in boxing, but I would have traded that in a heartbeat for more power.


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## TiredandHot (Oct 31, 2022)

So had a good Tempo run Thursday, 8 miles total. Was on track for 43 for the week.

Towards the end of my easy run Friday, noticed minor pain in my left calf. Finished the run but was painful some to walk. Saturday wasn't bad in the afternoon and like a fool, tried to run. Managed 3 miles but was a waste. Did hit the gym last 2 days tho.

Got 40 for the week, but disappointed a set back showed up. Never dealt with calf pain preventing running...had dead legs, plantar fascist, heel pain. Hoping this resolves quickly, as I'm happy with where I am and the progress I made. And the fact I just love to run.


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## CJ (Oct 31, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> So had a good Tempo run Thursday, 8 miles total. Was on track for 43 for the week.
> 
> Towards the end of my easy run Friday, noticed minor pain in my left calf. Finished the run but was painful some to walk. Saturday wasn't bad in the afternoon and like a fool, tried to run. Managed 3 miles but was a waste. Did hit the gym last 2 days tho.
> 
> Got 40 for the week, but disappointed a set back showed up. Never dealt with calf pain preventing running...had dead legs, plantar fascist, heel pain. Hoping this resolves quickly, as I'm happy with where I am and the progress I made. And the fact I just love to run.


Running is stupid. 😁


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## TiredandHot (Nov 6, 2022)

So Sunday was my scheduled off day, calf was hurting. Monday was much better so ran slow. Tuesday tried faster pace and rehurt it some. 

Long story short, no fast runs but got 41.8 for the week. It feels great now so I plan to resume my 2x weekly training runs. Hit gym last 2 days to retain some mass.

Hoping to see some progress this week and drop my training paces a little. We'll see...epo should Finally land this week and will resume it.


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## TiredandHot (Nov 13, 2022)

44.5 for the week, most I've ever run. Ever since running EPO back July, I've sustained the most amount of miles without a setback. A few different injuries popped up but didn't last. 

Wasn't feeling it Tuesday, but did a faster run that I think didn't accomplish much. Thursdays run was too long, legs were way more fatigued last 2 days. Not happy with my two planned days of training. 

Did upper body split last 2 days, weight on the bar is the same so once a week is maintaining what I have. Finally got my EPO, hoping it's still good considering it took 5 weeks to come. Anyways, hoping my legs recover and I can start over Monday. The cold is here...favorite time to run


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## IronSoul (Nov 13, 2022)

Man I’ve never seen this log. I’ll have to follow. What is EPO? Only EPO I’m familiar with is all the ones my ex wife put on me 


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## TiredandHot (Nov 13, 2022)

IronSoul said:


> Man I’ve never seen this log. I’ll have to follow. What is EPO? Only EPO I’m familiar with is all the ones my ex wife put on me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's the drug Lance Armstrong and other cyclists were caught using. Suppose to improve endurance a few different ways, I like it because it increases my hematocrit. I struggle to keep it high because my running depletes it.


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## IronSoul (Nov 13, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> It's the drug Lance Armstrong and other cyclists were caught using. Suppose to improve endurance a few different ways, I like it because it increases my hematocrit. I struggle to keep it high because my running depletes it.



That’s pretty cool man. I haven’t read back through your log yet. Are you training for a marathon or something like that? 


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## TiredandHot (Nov 13, 2022)

IronSoul said:


> That’s pretty cool man. I haven’t read back through your log yet. Are you training for a marathon or something like that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No specific event, just training to improve my pace per mile.


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## IronSoul (Nov 13, 2022)

TiredandHot said:


> No specific event, just training to improve my pace per mile.



Good shit man. I’ll be following. Cool to see 


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## TiredandHot (Nov 20, 2022)

44 miles for the week. Had a really good Tempo run Tuesday, 3.5 miles at a strong pace. But I must have ran my next 2 days a little too quick because I didn't feel recovered enough to run a 2nd training run. Rest of the week was easy running. 

Hit gym as usual last 2 days too. Off tomorrow and hoping to get in 2 hard runs next week!


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