# Nolvadex off cycle to increase testosterone



## Hooba (Aug 23, 2021)

Hello all, 

When I PCT  I use Nolvadex to help kick my test production back into gear but I was wondering if by running Nolvadex itself while off cycle would help increase natural test more?  A Test booster if you will.  It's something I have wondered for a while and just now remembered to ask about it.

Thanks all!


----------



## FearThaGear (Aug 23, 2021)

I wouldn't run it as a means to boost your testosterone. I have however heard of clomid being prescribed by doctors to help increase testosterone production.

I haven't personally tried it for that purpose so I'm only passing along what I've heard versus any type of research I've done on it.

I only mentioned clomid because many use novadex and clomid combined in their PCT protocols.


----------



## Hooba (Aug 24, 2021)

Thanks for the reply!  It's always been a question lurking in my head but wasn't sure.  I usually just run HCG and Nolva for a PCT and I bounce back well just running that.


----------



## Joliver (Aug 24, 2021)

It will increase FSH, LH and testosterone. The most common reported side effect was low libido. 

The study was done at 20mgs a day. 









						Oral tamoxifen citrate treatment is more effective in normogonadotropic patients who have follicle-stimulating hormone levels within the lower half of normal - PubMed
					

This study revealed that initial FSH values can be used as a marker to estimate the probability that a patient will benefit from oral TC therapy. Patients in the lower FSH group had statistically higher chances of having higher sperm counts after treatment, and it is rational to advise these...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


----------



## FearThaGear (Aug 25, 2021)

Joliver said:


> It will increase FSH, LH and testosterone. The most common reported side effect was low libido.
> 
> The study was done at 20mgs a day.
> 
> ...


Good find 👍



I  references but I never did see how much testosterone increased outside of them saying it was significant.


----------



## FearThaGear (Aug 25, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> Good find 👍
> 
> 
> 
> I  references but I never did see how much testosterone increased outside of them saying it was significant.


Well, that should have said that "I read the references sections" LOL.

I was trying to see how much the testosterone levels actually increased just out of my own curiosity.

On a side note, several of the referenced studies mentioned the increase in semen for the freaks out there LOL

I was curious if it was something that would be worthwhile taking to boost your testosterone enough to take a cycle of it for muscle gains.

There are all sorts of "testosterone boosters" marketed online but there is never any actual studies cited on how much testosterone is actually increased by using them.

Personally, I am on trt but I was just curious for those looking for a boost without having to move over to the dark side per se.


----------



## Badleroybrown (Aug 25, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> I wouldn't run it as a means to boost your testosterone. I have however heard of clomid being prescribed by doctors to help increase testosterone production.
> 
> I haven't personally tried it for that purpose so I'm only passing along what I've heard versus any type of research I've done on it.
> 
> I only mentioned clomid because many use novadex and clomid combined in their PCT protocols.


Yes I had a bud with low t and Sperm  count. Him and the miss were trying to get pregnant. Dc perscribe him clinic and it did raise his test and floater count. I don’t know how long he was on it for..


----------



## Joliver (Aug 25, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> Well, that should have said that "I read the references sections" LOL.
> 
> I was trying to see how much the testosterone levels actually increased just out of my own curiosity.
> 
> ...


I could probably find something a bit more definitive, but of the few people I've known that tried it (including myself back before gear was easier to get), there wasn't a significant difference in my mind. 

But I'm also trt so there's little in the way of benefit for me to try the experiment again. 

This seems like an experiment that would run into the "replication crisis."


----------



## Hooba (Aug 25, 2021)

I'm interested to see if there are numbers out there.  To the google box!!! because the internet is all truth!! LOL!


----------



## dirtys1x (Sep 3, 2021)

No. Do not run Nolvadex off past your PCT.

1. It does not increase testosterone 
2. The compound is actually fairly toxic and comes at the expense of a plethora of long term side effects.


----------



## Keyvontruth (Dec 7, 2021)

Hooba said:


> Thanks for the reply!  It's always been a question lurking in my head but wasn't sure.  I usually just run HCG and Nolva for a PCT and I bounce back well just running that.


How can I get my hands on that? Just did a rad 140 cycle and need to find a pct. Thanks for any advice. Also I’ve been doing research to find it but I’m not finding anything legit.


----------



## CJ (Dec 7, 2021)

Keyvontruth said:


> How can I get my hands on that? Just did a rad 140 cycle and need to find a pct. Thanks for any advice. Also I’ve been doing research to find it but I’m not finding anything legit.


You don't need to ask the exact same question in 10 different threads. We can all see it, and respond if we like.


----------



## JC Grifter (Dec 7, 2021)

Keyvontruth said:


> How can I get my hands on that? Just did a rad 140 cycle and need to find a pct. Thanks for any advice. Also I’ve been doing research to find it but I’m not finding anything legit.


Why would you start a cycle of anything without having PCT products on hand?


----------



## Keyvontruth (Dec 7, 2021)

It was my first cycle. A hugh mistake on my end. Thats why I’m trying get it before I even start my next cycle.


----------



## j2048b (Dec 7, 2021)

Nolva=never..... propensity to increase blood clotting, simple google will show u this, it is a huge issue....id never touch nolva, especially if uve never tested for blood clotting factors or have had a clot in the past..


----------



## Keyvontruth (Mar 24, 2022)

j2048b said:


> Nolva=never..... propensity to increase blood clotting, simple google will show u this, it is a huge issue....id never touch nolva, especially if uve never tested for blood clotting factors or have had a clot in the past..


Yeah I read up on all the side effects. Tbh any gear you use is going to have side effects. It’s up to you on which one you will take.


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 28, 2022)

I’ve heard of clomid being prescribed as a stand-alone issue. 
@Joliver did a post a few months ago that went into the most detail to kickstart test after shutdown. Wish I find it.


----------



## Joliver (Mar 28, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> I’ve heard of clomid being prescribed as a stand-alone issue.
> @Joliver did a post a few months ago that went into the most detail to kickstart test after shutdown. Wish I find it.



I'll hunt it down, or re-write what you need if you can't find it. Let me know. 

Probably be tomorrow, though. I'm currently a few beers into figuring out how to make monkey bread.


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 28, 2022)

Joliver said:


> I'll hunt it down, or re-write what you need if you can't find it. Let me know.
> 
> Probably be tomorrow, though. I'm currently a few beers into figuring out how to make monkey bread.


Well I’m on Nolva Clomid mix after two years of blast and cruise.  I started PCT two weeks after my last shot.  

When should I check my bloods to see how I rebounded ? Eight weeks after last shot?


----------



## JuiceTrain (Mar 28, 2022)

How bout you take some testosterone off cycle to increase testosterone 🤨


----------



## Joliver (Mar 28, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> Well I’m on Nolva Clomid mix after two years of blast and cruise.  I started PCT two weeks after my last shot.
> 
> When should I check my bloods to see how I rebounded ? Eight weeks after last shot?



Unfortunately, you started your pct too early if you were running any sort of long ester. The exogenous test isn't out of your blood at 2 weeks. 

If this is a complete restart after 2 years, you're probably going to need some  restart protocol. 

In fact, it's possible you may need to do it now.

These were my thoughts a few years ago on restarts. Cashout had a restart program that was on here somewhere. Dr. Scalley (sp?) has a protocol that was Internet famous for a bit, but my protocol was lifted from a study of a single person, who was a professional bodybuilder, that doctors decided to pull out all the stops on after the failure of a previous restart template. So n=1 there. 


Joliver said:


> The real world case studies I've seen that showed promise were treatments that were a bit more severe.
> 
> Course 1
> 
> ...





Joliver said:


> A word about what these components do....
> 
> Hcg: it is an analogue of the menotropins that exogenously induces the nuts to produce testosterone. You are essentially waking the cubs up from hibernation. It doesn't do shit for your hpg axis.
> 
> ...



I know you're asking about testing frequency to determine if your levels are holding, but that's probably a long way off. But in the interest of answering the question as stated: you would need to test a week or so after pct is concluded, then at 3,6, and 12 months. The the more the better (for certainty) but you will begin to feel like hell if it doesn't hold. So the question is, "how high a level is considered a success?"

And you certainly need to add an AI. You can't restart without one.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Mar 28, 2022)

Joliver said:


> Unfortunately, you started your pct too early if you were running any sort of long ester. The exogenous test isn't out of your blood at 2 weeks.
> 
> If this is a complete restart after 2 years, you're probably going to need some  restart protocol.
> 
> ...



You could always do a Triptorelin kick start of the hypo gonadism is severe enough.
Luckily there isnt any confusion with primary or secondary, considering we know the cause is steroids.

Triptorelin, followed by a restart protocol is quite promising, hell, even Triptorelin by itself has been shown to help recovery.

The only thing I'm not a fan of, for those protocols is HCG use being stacked with SERMs, considering it's going to POSSIBLY decrease LH production , seems counterintuitive TBH

Sure the SERMs are increasing LH production... but why not get the leydig cells pumped up and healthy via HCG, THEN stimulate LH production via the SERMs?

More accurately, starting combination SERM therepy, POST HCG/leydig restoration therepy.

I'm also a fan of front loading SERMs, IE taking 4 days worth on the first day, specifically the Hypothalamus/Pituitary (Not really the testes) respond quite well to drastic and fast change....
Furthermore, its non harmfull because you're just reaching your standard saturation on day 1 instead of day 4, so it's not like you'll have extra drugs in your body.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Mar 28, 2022)

Joliver said:


> Unfortunately, you started your pct too early if you were running any sort of long ester. The exogenous test isn't out of your blood at 2 weeks.
> 
> If this is a complete restart after 2 years, you're probably going to need some  restart protocol.
> 
> ...



P.S
Yeah
AI for sure is underrated for HPTA kickstaty/health/PCT etc

Kudos, I dont see people.mention that very often, its quite beneficial


----------



## Joliver (Mar 28, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> You could always do a Triptorelin kick start of the hypo gonadism is severe enough.
> Luckily there isnt any confusion with primary or secondary, considering we know the cause is steroids.
> 
> Triptorelin, followed by a restart protocol is quite promising, hell, even Triptorelin by itself has been shown to help recovery.
> ...



That makes sense. I'd defer to your expertise in this situation. That post was from 2015 and it may well be showing it's age. And since I'm trt at this point...I no longer keep in the know regarding the newest data and such.


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 28, 2022)

Joliver said:


> Unfortunately, you started your pct too early if you were running any sort of long ester. The exogenous test isn't out of your blood at 2 weeks.
> 
> If this is a complete restart after 2 years, you're probably going to need some  restart protocol.
> 
> ...





Joliver said:


> That makes sense. I'd defer to your expertise in this situation. That post was from 2015 and it may well be showing it's age. And since I'm trt at this point...I no longer keep in the know regarding the newest data and such.


these are all very helpful discussions. Thanks!
Yes I gave myself a few HcG shots while on cycle.  
Yes I front loaded my SERMs. 
@Joliver I’d be happy with 400ng / dl. I really just wanna see if I can rebound at all and try to get my wife pregnant again before she’s too old.   
Will be doing sperm count tests soon.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Mar 28, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> these are all very helpful discussions. Thanks!
> Yes I gave myself a few HcG shots while on cycle.
> Yes I front loaded my SERMs.
> @Joliver I’d be happy with 400ng / dl. I really just wanna see if I can rebound at all and try to get my wife pregnant again before she’s too old.
> Will be doing sperm count tests soon.



HMG although expensive
Is probably something you'll want to look into

If it's just fertility that is
If you're looking to jump off gear completely, then yeah, what Jol said

It will increase sperm count significantly, HCG/HMG will do a great job of putting a bun in the oven


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 28, 2022)

HMG interesting. Will have to source that


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 28, 2022)

Joliver said:


> Unfortunately, you started your pct too early if you were running any sort of long ester. The exogenous test isn't out of your blood at 2 weeks.
> 
> If this is a complete restart after 2 years, you're probably going to need some  restart protocol.
> 
> ...


I have not been taking an AI during PCT but I will add in a little arimidex. 
Re: long Esthers: yea the NPP was a short Esther but test C long Esther. 
U think I ought to have waited three weeks after last shot instead of two week to start SERMs?
Oh well too late, but curious


----------



## Joliver (Mar 28, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> I have not been taking an AI during PCT but I will add in a little arimidex.
> Re: long Esthers: yea the NPP was a short Esther but test C long Esther.
> U think I ought to have waited three weeks after last shot instead of two week to start SERMs?
> Oh well too late, but curious



I'd say it depends on the dosage. It's a terminal half life thing. I'm going to round some numbers, and invent some for example purposes, but the half life is about a week. So if you had a 500mg a week cycle that got your test levels over 5000, then theoretically, you couldn't start as soon as a 250mg cycle that had a 2500 peak. 

So a reasonably sure bet, without any sort of testing is half life x 5. So About 5 weeks. You can see that most people start their pct way too early. 

There is one thing for sure....your body will not recover and hold a test level in the presence of adequate circulating exogenous testosterone. Reasonable people may disagree on the time to start pct ..but if you're feeling great...getting boners... lifting great...living the good life....and think it's time to start pct...you're wrong.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Mar 28, 2022)

Joliver said:


> I'd say it depends on the dosage. It's a terminal half life thing. I'm going to round some numbers, and invent some for example purposes, but the half life is about a week. So if you had a 500mg a week cycle that got your test levels over 5000, then theoretically, you couldn't start as soon as a 250mg cycle that had a 2500 peak.
> 
> So a reasonably sure bet, without any sort of testing is half life x 5. So About 5 weeks. You can see that most people start their pct way too early.
> 
> There is one thing for sure....your body will not recover and hold a test level in the presence of adequate circulating exogenous testosterone. Reasonable people may disagree on the time to start pct ..but if you're feeling great...getting boners... lifting great...living the good life....and think it's time to start pct...you're wrong.



500
250
125
75
37.5
16.75 Money shot (well actually the opposite, you're packing a wet noodle)

No bonerz on 16.75 mg Test


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 30, 2022)

The way you guys are writing it out appears to be for 7 day half life for Test C, no?


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 30, 2022)

Ok I’ve read a little more on half lives and am exponentially confused. 
So in theory let’s say you’re slamming 300mg test C / week for 14 weeks. Serum levels are through the roof, like 1400 ng/ dl or 2,000 ng/dl.  
Aren’t we calculating the half life of those serum concentrations? Or are we merely calculating the injection half life 300mg?


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Mar 30, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> Ok I’ve read a little more on half lives and am exponentially confused.
> So in theory let’s say you’re slamming 300mg test C / week for 14 weeks. Serum levels are through the roof, like 1400 ng/ dl or 2,000 ng/dl.
> Aren’t we calculating the half life of those serum concentrations? Or are we merely calculating the injection half life 300mg?



They're interchangeable
The idea being (Easy numbers for math, not real)

If 300mg Test Cyp provides 3000 ng/dl
then 200mg provides 2000 ng/dl

If we are waiting 7 weeks
1: 300mg/ 3000 ng/do
2 150 mg /1500 Ng/do
3: 75mg / 750 ng/do
4: 37.5mg /375 ng/dl
5 : 16.25 mg/ 162.5 ng/dl (Bingo)

Obviously the ratios differ slightly

But the idea being, to wait until your concentrations of Testosterone are low enough for your body to want to actually produce.

You can do the same APPROXIMATE math with your bloodwork if you set a percentage or ratio to your dosage and your current concentration of hormone in your blood.
(In your case 1700 ng/dl/300mg Test.)

But it's kinda unnecessary to think about it that much
The aim being extremely low Test, which is quite achievable with a 5 week deadline on lower amounts of Test >500mg


----------



## silentlemon1011 (Mar 30, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> The way you guys are writing it out appears to be for 7 day half life for Test C, no?



If we REALLY want to get into the logistics of it
Its AROUND 6 or 7
We could start getting into carrier oils (Kinda like Castor Vs MCT) the half life difference being a whopping 38%)

But dor all intents and purposes that just overcomplicated a very simple endeavor.


----------



## ATLRigger (Mar 30, 2022)

ATLRigger said:


> Isn’t test C half life 9 days? The way you guys are writing it out appears to be for 7 day half life.  Am I missing something here?





silentlemon1011 said:


> They're interchangeable
> The idea being (Easy numbers for math, not real)
> 
> If 300mg Test Cyp provides 3000 ng/dl
> ...


Ok thanks.  So I just wasted a couple weeks’ worth of Nolva and clomid by taking it too early, right? (No actual drawbacks except that I didn’t need it..)


----------

