# Chris Bell lousy diet advice



## PillarofBalance (Feb 7, 2017)

I don't know why this guy pissed me off so bad. Maybe it's his biased fake documentaries. Maybe it's his haggard looking appearance. Maybe it's his complete lack of actual knowledge and the microphone he has. All I know is i can't stand this guy and his bullshit "war on carbs" nonsense.

Anyone using Rob Wolfe and the bulletproof coffee guy as a source of info has zero credibility 







Absolute nonsense!!!


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## DF (Feb 7, 2017)

Motherfukr is picking on Oreo's & Doritos!  That sonofabitch!


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 7, 2017)

I mean how the **** do you say "balance is the key" but then preach a diet that is so completely unbalanced? 

Seriously someone please explain why this dude makes me so crazy?


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## mistah187 (Feb 7, 2017)

I think he said it right in the response. There are no absolutes. That being said running zero carbs is absolutely great for weight loss. After the first couple of shifty days energy and strength are in the damme ball park and your mood grets better.  Best part is it all happens fast. U can run a keto diet for 8-12weeks and lose everything u want. Instead of resorting to dnp or any other short cuts people look for. When coming off the diet, of u ever need to, u just add in those good carbs slowly. I think that is what he is talking about Balance. But to each there own, I have just had success personally with this way of thinking. Accually on keto right now in beginning of week 4, down 13 lbs and feeling great.


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 7, 2017)

mistah187 said:


> I think he said it right in the response. There are no absolutes. That being said running zero carbs is absolutely great for weight loss. After the first couple of shifty days energy and strength are in the damme ball park and your mood grets better.  Best part is it all happens fast. U can run a keto diet for 8-12weeks and lose everything u want. Instead of resorting to dnp or any other short cuts people look for. When coming off the diet, of u ever need to, u just add in those good carbs slowly. I think that is what he is talking about Balance. But to each there own, I have just had success personally with this way of thinking. Accually on keto right now in beginning of week 4, down 13 lbs and feeling great.



There is no diet that is better than another so long as there is a caloric deficit. You can't do a keto diet eat maintenance or over and still lose weight. Saying you can is basically saying magic is real and human biology is nonsense.

There are also no such thing as good and bad carbs. Glycemic index has almost no application in real life.  Eating all your carbs in straight sugar is no better or worse for fat loss than eating all sweet potatoes or whatever the bros all limit themselves to.

This idea of eating clean is absolute nonsense. It's about preference. Maybe he prefers keto. Fine. But stfu already.  Keto works for him not everyone and to make claims of its superiority is absolute garbage.


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## mistah187 (Feb 7, 2017)

Like I said to each their own, and what works for u works for u. But I disagree on many levels with most of what u are saying. Especially about sugar. Lol though I can tell u hate this guy. I have that guy too, but it's at work, everything the guy says I wanna send him to hurt town, even if he says shit I agree with.


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## SuperBane (Feb 7, 2017)

Seeing as I have dieted both ways. Keto worked because it was a static diet and a deficit!
Using fat as fuel was great! 
Yet I didn't make the gains I did by eating carbs.
Nor have I ever been as lean as when I cut calories and was still eating rice.
I think like anything else which way you diet is just another tool in the box.

For me a static diet works best carbs or no carbs so I'm not tempted to eat sugars too many sugars **** me up.
So I do my best to avoid them. Oreo after Oreo after Oreo.

I think it is all about the time you put in getting to know your own body as well as your own personal limitations and self control.
Not everything is for everyone and sometimes part of the journey and experience is very personal.
Just my .02


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## Tren4Life (Feb 7, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> I mean how the **** do you say "balance is the key" but then preach a diet that is so completely unbalanced?
> 
> Seriously someone please explain why this dude makes me so crazy?




Wouldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that you're Irish Italian?


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## automatondan (Feb 7, 2017)

Shouldn't this have been posted in the "FLAME" section.......???


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## bigdog (Feb 7, 2017)

I got diet advice from DF once.... I stayed fat a few extra months from it too:32 (18):


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 7, 2017)

Tren4Life said:


> Wouldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that you're Irish Italian?



You might be onto something here lol


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## Joliver (Feb 7, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> There is no diet that is better than another so long as there is a caloric deficit. You can't do a keto diet eat maintenance or over and still lose weight. Saying you can is basically saying magic is real and human biology is nonsense.
> 
> There are also no such thing as good and bad carbs. Glycemic index has almost no application in real life.  Eating all your carbs in straight sugar is no better or worse for fat loss than eating all sweet potatoes or whatever the bros all limit themselves to.
> 
> This idea of eating clean is absolute nonsense. It's about preference. Maybe he prefers keto. Fine. But stfu already.  Keto works for him not everyone and to make claims of its superiority is absolute garbage.



Keto will peel you like a potato man. The transition from glucose metabolism to lipid metabolism in a high protein diet is simply effective. While a calorie is simply a calorie...you can choose what kind of calories your body utilizes by removing carbohydrates as a source of fuel.


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## CardinalJacked (Feb 7, 2017)

He should really just stick to making documentaries.


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## snake (Feb 7, 2017)

First off, if it wasn't for everyone talking about this diet or that diet, I'd have no idea who or what this shit is. 

Protein, carbs and fats. Balance them out at a percentage that your body needs and at a rate you can sustain for a life time and you'll be fine.  I'm am growing tired of hearing how carbs are bad for a normal healthy adult. 

The secret is; there's no secret!


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## Joliver (Feb 7, 2017)

snake said:


> First off, if it wasn't for everyone talking about this diet or that diet, I'd have no idea who or what this shit is.
> 
> Protein, carbs and fats. Balance them out at a percentage that your body needs and at a rate you can sustain for a life time and you'll be fine.  I'm am growing tired of hearing how carbs are bad for a normal healthy adult.
> 
> The secret is; there's no secret!



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129159/



> Although some studies suggest that pre-exercise muscle glycogen stores determine capacity for prolonged exercise [12], there is no clear requirement for dietary carbohydrates for human adults [13]. Current carbohydrate recommendations are based on 1) preventing ketosis, and 2) providing glucose beyond minimal needs. However, it is clear that ketosis is not harmful [14-16], except in the high levels seen in type 1 diabetes. Also, the need to provide glucose above minimal needs is exactly what has never been demonstrated [14]. Indeed, the National Research Council has not established Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for carbohydrates, probably because the human body can adapt to a carbohydrate-free diet and manufacture the glucose it needs. Nevertheless, some nutritionists contend that the carbohydrate is an essential nutrient. For example, Mcdonald claimed that healthy, moderately active adults require at least 200 g of carbohydrate daily to sustain normal brain metabolism and muscle function [17]. However, the author did not provide any evidence supporting this recommendation. Low-carbohydrate diets have been avoided because of the high-fat nature of the diets and the "predicted" associated hypercholesterolemia. However, serum lipids generally improve with the low-carbohydrate diet, especially the triglyceride and HDL measurements. In sharp contrast, high-carbohydrate diets, which reduce high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and raise triglyceride levels, exacerbate the metabolic manifestations of the insulin resistance syndrome [18]. Finally, all fats raise HDL cholesterol. The relative potency of fatty acid classes in raising HDL cholesterol is saturated > monounsaturated > > polyunsaturated [19]. Thus, it is clear that replacement of total fat (of any fatty acid distribution) with carbohydrates results in significant reductions in HDL cholesterol [19]. Indeed, recent studies of carbohydrate intake and its relationship to the development of CHD and type 2 diabetes have been rather revealing, showing that an increase in carbohydrate intake is related to increases in both conditions [20].



Not saying they're bad....just saying they're unnecessary and removing them is beneficial to fat loss.


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## snake (Feb 7, 2017)

Joliver said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129159/
> 
> 
> 
> Not saying they're bad....just saying they're unnecessary and removing them is beneficial to fat loss.



I'll split the difference with you; how about this:
Not saying they're bad....just saying they're unnecessary and removing them *may be* beneficial to fat loss.

Don't go getting all Zilla on me but if we didn't need carbs, why do we crave them? My dogs are designed to eat meat almost exclusively but the fuukers will still grab cookies off the counter if I'm not looking.


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## Tren4Life (Feb 7, 2017)

I'm not sure of the science behind it but I know from experience that the only way for me to loose fat is to cut out carbs and sugar 

But on th flip side the only way I can gain weight is to eat carbs so for me it's just a matter of what I want to do.


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## Joliver (Feb 7, 2017)

snake said:


> I'll split the difference with you; how about this:
> Not saying they're bad....just saying they're unnecessary and removing them *may be* beneficial to fat loss.
> 
> Don't go getting all Zilla on me but if we didn't need carbs, why do we crave them? My dogs are designed to eat meat almost exclusively but the fuukers will still grab cookies off the counter if I'm not looking.



Well, good example--I don't NEED pussy...but I crave it. 

Carbs are the easiest source of glucose. Think of carbs as a government handout to some unemployed muscle. It would just rather you give it what it needs that to work for it. But, it doesn't make them a dietary necessity. Gluconeogenesis is the biological pathway that makes glucose out of non-carb substrates.


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## snake (Feb 7, 2017)

Joliver said:


> Well, good example--I don't NEED pussy...but I crave it.
> 
> Carbs are the easiest source of glucose. Think of carbs as a government handout to some unemployed muscle. It would just rather you give it what it needs that to work for it. But, it doesn't make them a dietary necessity. Gluconeogenesis is the biological pathway that makes glucose out of non-carb substrates.



That thought process is not unlike how I feel toward fat. For arguments sake, let's stick to dead animals. That fat is a free handout of converted carbs from another creature that had to obtain the fuel, determine if it had an on-demand use and once it had no use for it; store it as fat. Therefore, by eating the fats, you're just bypassing your body's ability to determine what it would like to do with the carb source. 

#snakescience


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## El Gringo (Feb 8, 2017)

having done keto and by meaning i did 6 months of being scared to death of eating a single blueberry... all i can say is **** that diet. lost about 10 pounds of muscle and gained 5 pounds of fat. If you feel like torturing yourself and going backwards then go for it. Although, if you ever doubt yourself, there are tons of people on the internet that worship the diet and will preach to you all that carbs do is make you fat and you dont need them.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 8, 2017)

Joliver said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129159/
> 
> 
> 
> Not saying they're bad....just saying they're unnecessary and removing them is beneficial to fat loss.



Removing carbs can be beneficial to fat loss bc it usually tends to reduce calorie intake. At the same time, some people cannot control carb intake and could benefit from removing them completely from their diet. I don't think that makes a case for keto being the best diet out there, for some sure, but not for all.


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## stonetag (Feb 8, 2017)

Someone needs a Snickers.....No carbs equals mean stone.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 8, 2017)

El Gringo said:


> having done keto and by meaning i did 6 months of being scared to death of eating a single blueberry... all i can say is **** that diet. lost about 10 pounds of muscle and gained 5 pounds of fat. If you feel like torturing yourself and going backwards then go for it. Although, if you ever doubt yourself, there are tons of people on the internet that worship the diet and will preach to you all that carbs do is make you fat and you dont need them.


maybe you just didn't do it right lol. 
Calories n vs calories our still applies. 
I lost ~60# in a few months on a Keto diet with weekly carb loads (anabolic diet) and gained strength the entire time.


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## Joliver (Feb 8, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Removing carbs can be beneficial to fat loss bc it usually tends to reduce calorie intake. At the same time, some people cannot control carb intake and could benefit from removing them completely from their diet. I don't think that makes a case for keto being the best diet out there, for some sure, but not for all.



So the body switching fuel sources from glucose to fat is not not preferential?

A calorie is a calorie is the argument being presented by the "any deficit will do" crowd--and calorie is a calorie from a WEIGHT standpoint. Nobody here wants to lose weight. They want to lose fat. 

We can post study after study making the case for and against keto, but at the end of the day, as a weight classed athlete in school and a classed lifter even till this day, I've been around a lot of "dramatic" cuts. The most painful--but most successful have always been keto diets. Few people choose to do them, but when in a jam, it's the defcon 1 option.

Keto is also particularly effective because you can set your calorie intake to almost negligible net weight loss, drop the carbs and test with keto sticks until you have ketones present in the urine and recomp without being reliant on scale weight. Keto promotes positive changes in blood lipid profiles, increases insulin sensitivity, and in a high protein environment--burns fat stores for fuel.

The diet is trendy, and while I hate trendy shit myself, that is the reason why most people tend to reflexively reject it. Its just too damn effective to dismiss.


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## Joliver (Feb 8, 2017)

El Gringo said:


> having done keto and by meaning i did 6 months of being scared to death of eating a single blueberry... all i can say is **** that diet. lost about 10 pounds of muscle and gained 5 pounds of fat. If you feel like torturing yourself and going backwards then go for it. Although, if you ever doubt yourself, there are tons of people on the internet that worship the diet and will preach to you all that carbs do is make you fat and you dont need them.



If you gained weight on any cutting diet, you can't count. That's a math problem.


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 8, 2017)

He ****ing looks like yoda or some shit. Eat carbs you must not


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## ToolSteel (Feb 8, 2017)

You just want to pork his old lady


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## DieYoungStrong (Feb 8, 2017)

Dem titties are amazing


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## Joliver (Feb 8, 2017)

That fool is eaten up with drugs. Man...anything he espouses could be easily written off. Even a broken clock...


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 8, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> You just want to pork his old lady





DieYoungStrong said:


> Dem titties are amazing



I would eat that ass.


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## automatondan (Feb 8, 2017)

That guy looks like hes all cracked out and on the verge of death... but I guess thats the look some people are after these days....


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 8, 2017)

Joliver said:


> So the body switching fuel sources from glucose to fat is not not preferential?



I'm the acute setting sure it looks great on paper but over the chronic setting differences are negligible. Consider two isocaloric diets:

One doing keto one doing lower fat higher carbs. 

Sure the keto diet burns more fat but you're also eating more fat which is preferentially stored as fat. If you're in a deficit consider it X pounds lost. 

Taking in more carbs means less fat burned acutely bc you're not using fats as you're primary energy source. But the flip side to this is you are also storing much less fat bc you're eating less of it and carbs don't get stored as fat unless in some pretty extreme circumstances. Considering the same deficit, you lose the same X pounds of fat in the long run. In the short run I agree there will be a difference but that's due to glycogen and water loss in the first several weeks. 



> A calorie is a calorie is the argument being presented by the "any deficit will do" crowd--and calorie is a calorie from a WEIGHT standpoint. Nobody here wants to lose weight. They want to lose fat.



Yes but where do you think the weight will be lost from assuming adequate protein intake? It will come from fat as well. 



> We can post study after study making the case for and against keto, but at the end of the day, as a weight classed athlete in school and a classed lifter even till this day, I've been around a lot of "dramatic" cuts. The most painful--but most successful have always been keto diets. Few people choose to do them, but when in a jam, it's the defcon 1 option.



Sure when you're constrained for time bc you can lose an additional 10lbs or so when you include the glycogen and water weight....but you said we are talking about fat not simply weight. 



> Keto is also particularly effective because you can set your calorie intake to almost negligible net weight loss, drop the carbs and test with keto sticks until you have ketones present in the urine and recomp without being reliant on scale weight. Keto promotes positive changes in blood lipid profiles, increases insulin sensitivity, and in a high protein environment--burns fat stores for fuel.
> 
> The diet is trendy, and while I hate trendy shit myself, that is the reason why most people tend to reflexively reject it. Its just too damn effective to dismiss.



Look at the following study by NUSI, a group that favors low carb diets. I mention that bc if anything , they would be biased for keto/low carb diets. 

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract

The study used a metabolic ward and the gold standard for measurement, plus the team of researchers leading it are among the best in the field. About the only critiques I can see are that it didn't have a control group and wasn't randomized but again, any bias would have been in favor of the low carb diet. 

Being in a hypocaloric state improves insulin sensitivity and positive lipid changes regardless of how much or little carbs or fat are eaten. So how much do you attribute to the lack of carbs vs the deficit in calories? I can't find a study to say either way but I can find studies showing high carb diets, up to 65%, to improve the health markers you're talking about.


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## Joliver (Feb 9, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I'm the acute setting sure it looks great on paper but over the chronic setting differences are negligible. Consider two isocaloric diets:
> 
> One doing keto one doing lower fat higher carbs.
> 
> ...



Doc, you are living proof that eventually statistics will soon be on both sides of any contentious argument.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/
^keto study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1479303/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2202650/
^carbs negative effects on lipid profiles 



> A hypocaloric high-protein diet may also help maintain lean body mass and positive nitrogen balance in comparison with a hypocaloric high-carbohydrate diet (16)


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687312/
^Impact of carbs vs no carbs on metabolic risk factors.

In my drunken state, everything you said with a study, I found one that says otherwise...assuming I can read.

All of those damn studies can easily be refuted with even more asinine studies...gold standard and such. But at the end of the day, when bodybuilders want to cut adipose tissue, the macro they eyeball first is the CARB. Carb cycling, low carb, no carb...whatever. Carbs are the preferred source of fuel in the body. You cannot escape this fact. When carbs (simple especially)are present, they are generally prefered over fat. To deny is a lie.

Also, to say that the calories subtracted from carbs are added to fat--complete misdirection. I'm all about winning an internet war, but we all know that a low carb diet is generally accepted to be MUCH higher in protein. In fact, add the carbs Cals to the protein when I really need to shed the fat. Only a dipshit takes the carbs out and adds the freed up calories to the fats. That kind of moron would deserve to be fat. And to boot, most people know that they should be consuming more MCTs and not LCTs because they are more readily available to be oxidized and less likely to be stored as fat.

There a good ways and bad ways to drop fat. VLcarb is a fantastic way. People piss on it for the same reason they piss on cardio. It's not cool to do a "fad."


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## ECKSRATED (Feb 9, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> He ****ing looks like yoda or some shit. Eat carbs you must not



That's his wife? Does he have money or something? 12 inch cock? Cus he's a fukking doofy looking bastard and she's sexy as fukk. Id put all the carbs he doesn't eat in between her ass crack and eat them for him.


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## Joliver (Feb 9, 2017)

$5 bucks says I wake up to some mind-**** of a reply that I am too simple to understand. God damn it. Shouldn't have hit post. But I can't stand having a "restore auto-saved content" in every thread. Pisses me off....like an e-stutter.


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 9, 2017)

its good to know theory in anything you do..For me to get lean it takes a combo of cardio and high protein medium to low carbs and fats..All the carbs have to be oatmeal,rice,sweet potatoes and fruits..This after years of fukking around with food and cardio is the best and only way for me to get shredded..


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## MrRippedZilla (Feb 9, 2017)

Joliver said:


> God damn it. Shouldn't have hit post.



I've been dealing with some health issues that prevents me from having the energy to make a detailed response on this topic but do NOT say that shit ^^^ again.

I crave intelligent debates and you & doc are certainly valuable enough members to produce that. Do not starve me of my sustenance


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## Joliver (Feb 9, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I've been dealing with some health issues that prevents me from having the energy to make a detailed response on this topic but do NOT say that shit ^^^ again.
> 
> I crave intelligent debates and you & doc are certainly valuable enough members to produce that. Do not starve me of my sustenance



Dear god...I've tricked zilla into thinking I'm all smart and shit. Phase one complete.

Yessir. Best wishes regarding your health situation. May you have a speedy recovery.


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## NbleSavage (Feb 11, 2017)

Lobliner is a bit of a tool IMO, but his article here explains IF in approachable and realistic terms.

Intermittent Fasting – Is Skipping Breakfast a Deadly Decision?

8 votes, average: 5.00 out of 58 votes, average: 5.00 out of 58 votes, average: 5.00 out of 58 votes, average: 5.00 out of 58 votes, average: 5.00 out of 5 (8 votes, average: 5.00 out of 5) 

Intermittent fasting was the biggest diet craze about two years ago. Internet celebrities like the Hodge Twins were the poster boys for this eating lifestyle. People were reporting epic fat loss results, and my email box was flooded with questions about it.

Admittedly, I have never been a fan of intermittent fasting. I feel that depriving yourself  of food for an extended period is a recipe for disaster. Starving in the morning and then binging at night is unhealthy.

Related: Intermittent Fasting – Is it For You?

And who can live without having eggs and toast at 7am, especially after a night of lovemaking with their significant other?

In general, I hate the word diet but I LOVE the concept of a lifestyle. From my viewpoint, I want people to lose the fat in a sustainable way in which they can see themselves adhering to that for life.

Afterall, any diet guy worth their weight in whey knows that most people who lose fat gain it all back. Usually they add even more, becoming even fatter than when they started.

But I am a nerd, and I love data. So, I read all about intermittent fasting. What I found out was that I LIKE THE HECK out of intermittent fasting… For some people. Read on and find out if intermittent fasting is right for you.



Intermittent fasting benefits and negatives.
The Latest Research – Is Fasting Deadly?

The latest “news” on intermittent fasting is kind of BS, but it’s been circling around the Internet. Here is the scoop.

Published in a damn good journal, the American Heart Association Journal Circulation, researchers from Columbia University said that meal timing and frequency are indicated in several health issues including heart disease, strokes, high blood pressure, blood glucose levels, obesity, and reduced insulin sensitivity.

In addition, they found that daily breakfast eaters have fewer issues with high cholesterol and blood pressure. Meanwhile, people who regularly skip breakfast are more likely to be obese, have poor nutrition, or be diagnosed with diabetes. [1]

Now, before I get into this, the participants of the study were not really using intermittent fasting. Also, they were making unhealthy snack food choices later in the day.

While not completely a representation of intermittent fasting, this study did match some intermittent fasting protocols and their feeding periods. But for the most part I am not a fan of correlation studies and population studies. This is pretty much a throw-away study.

But here we find data that skipping breakfast is not a good idea. It’s good to look at data from all sides of an argument.. After reading so much about the benefits of the intermittent fasting diet, it’s nice to read something to offset it!

Intermittent Fasting – The Good

This diet has data up the yin-yang. Without getting too resource heavy, here are some benefits I found hidden within some Pubmed searches:

Brain Health: Intermittent Fasting can benefit brain health by potentially increasing a brain hormone “brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF)”  and prevents brain damage due to strokes. [2] The data presented here is done on rats. [3] It very well might have some epic neuroprotective benefits.
You might live longer: Fasted rats lived considerably longer (83%) than non-fasted rats. [4]
Insulin levels drop, which can encourage fat burning and less fat storage. This can also help prevent and treat type 2 diabetes. [5]. Study done in humans.
Enhanced metabolism: Intermittent Fasting can enhance your metabolism. [6] Study done in humans.
Inflammation reduction: Intermittent Fasting can inflammation in the body. [7] Study done on humans.
Heart health: Intermittent Fasting can be heart healthy. [8]
You’re probably thinking, “Intermittent Fasting is the best diet ever, sign me up!” While I am Impressed with these results and all of this delicious scientific data, I am also looking beyond the data. Because wherever there is one study, there is another study stating the exact opposite.

But after reading all of this amazing gospel on intermittent fasting, what can possibly be negative?

Intermittent Fasting – The Not-So-Good

Not good for athletes
Not the best for lean mass gains.
Creates a potential for eating disorders.
Those are the downsides in this diet-guy’s honest opinion.

Eating Issues and Adherence

This is all opinion, so take it for what it’s worth. For most of us, forgoing breakfast and meals for an extended period of time is not optimal. Like I said in the opening of this article, breakfast is social. To think that this will be adhered to for life is a bit crazy for most, since it doesn’t fit cultural norms.

I also know that purposely fasting all day and then cramming in all macronutrients at night isn’t the best for you mentally. With eating disorders a seemingly normal occurrence in fitness and the general population, this is a definite concern of mine.

Athletes

Eating frequent meals can help with a lot of things in athletes, including:

Less lean mass loss when on a diet to lose fat. This was done on boxers, very good data here in an extreme athletic setting. [9]
Increase in muscle mass and anaerobic power. [10]
Increased fat loss. [10]
I look to the ISSN (International Society of Sport Nutrition) for guidance here. They state:

“These trends indicate that if meal frequency improves body composition, it is likely to occur in an athletic population as opposed to a sedentary population. While no experimental studies have investigated why athletes may benefit more from increased meal frequency as compared to sedentary individuals, it may be due to the anabolic stimulus of exercise training and how ingested nutrients are partitioned throughout the body. It is also possible that a greater energy flux (intake and expenditure) leads to increased futile cycling, and over time, this has beneficial effects on body composition.

Even though the relationship between energy intake and frequency of eating has not been systematically studied in athletes, available data demonstrates that athletes (runners, swimmers, triathletes) follow a high meal frequency (ranging from 5 to 10 eating occasions) in their daily eating practices. Such eating practices enable athletes to ingest a culturally normalized eating pattern (breakfast, lunch, and dinner), but also enable them to adhere to the principles of nutrient timing (i.e., ingesting carbohydrate and protein nutrients in the time periods before and immediately following physical activity/competition).” [10]

What Can We Learn From This?

We can learn a lot from all bodies of data.

We see that controlling insulin can be healthy for health conditions. The intermittent fasting diet is very proficient at this, as is the keto diet that I discussed here. Adherence is the key to any long-term weight management strategy. The intermittent fasting diet might not be the best for this.

Athletes seem to do better with frequent meals based on current data, although more studies on intermittent fasting and athletes need to be completed. Sedentary or recreational exercisers can certainly benefit from intermittent fasting if it fits their lifestyle.

If you don’t like breakfast, intermittent fasting might be perfect for you.

Most intermittent fasting program are around the 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of feeding per day. So your schedule would be:

11pm-3pm: FAST
3pm-11pm: FEED
From what I can tell, it is personal preference as to whether you train after a meal or in a fasted state.

Is There a Middle Ground?

Drop Factor Book
Click here to order your copy of The Drop Factor Diet.

I like a diet that combines some of the benefits from the keto diet and intermittent fasting diet, such as insulin and appetite control, but can also have the nutrient timing benefits of a frequent-feeding diet. I also want something with no deprivation that can be adhered to with ease for years or even and entire lifetime (at least the principles of it).

The closest thing we have to that is a book that combines years of research, experience and application, my book The Drop Factor: Transformation Edition. You can read about it and get yours here.

The Take Home

There is no perfect diet. The best diet is one that works for YOU. if you think Intermittent Fasting is right for you, TRY IT.

You might love it and it is a darn good diet. If you are an athlete interested in performance and enjoy eating frequently, do that! If you like bacon and eggs and feel you can live life best in a state of ketosis, slaughter a cow and get to work with a keto diet.

And if you want to try a diet that I feel is the best of all worlds, read my book at DropFactorBook.com and give that a try.

Whatever you choose, give it some time to work and realize that long-term adherence to a lifestyle is the key to weight management success. Because being sexy and enjoying what and how you eat… That’s not a game!

References

1) “Meal Timing and Frequency: Implications for Cardiovascular Disease Prevention: A Scientific Statement From the American Heart Association.” Circulation, circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/01/30/CIR.0000000000000476.
2) “Dietary Restriction Increases the Number of Newly Generated Neural Cells, and Induces BDNF Expression, in the Dentate Gyrus of Rats. – PubMed – NCBI.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11220789.
3) “Age and Energy Intake Interact to Modify Cell Stress Pathways and Stroke Outcome.” PubMed Central (PMC), www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2844782/.
4) www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/212538.
5) “Alternate-day Fasting in Nonobese Subjects: Effects on Body Weight, Body Composition, and Energy Metabolism. – PubMed – NCBI.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15640462.
6) “Enhanced Thermogenic Response to Epinephrine After 48-h Starvation in Humans. – PubMed – NCBI.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717.
7) “Alternate Day Calorie Restriction Improves Clinical Findings and Reduces Markers of Oxidative Stress and Inflammation in Overweight Adults with Mod… – PubMed – NCBI.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17291990/.
8) “Short-term Modified Alternate-day Fasting: a Novel Dietary Strategy for Weight Loss and Cardioprotection in Obese Adults. – PubMed – NCBI.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19793855.
9) “Effects of Meal Frequency on Body Composition During Weight Control in Boxers – Iwao – 1996 – Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports.” Wiley Online Library, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0838.1996.tb00469.x/abstract;jsessionid=F041F6F3BB83DEAEC583C41961B674FE.f02t03.
10) “International Society of Sports Nutrition Position Stand: Meal Frequency | Full Text.” Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-8-4#CR49.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 11, 2017)

Joliver said:


> $5 bucks says I wake up to some mind-**** of a reply that I am too simple to understand. God damn it. Shouldn't have hit post. But I can't stand having a "restore auto-saved content" in every thread. Pisses me off....like an e-stutter.



I love that auto restore saved content shit. Do you know how many times it's saved my ass from losing a lengthy, referenced post? I get a warm and fuzzy feeling in my belly everytime I see the little bastard box say "content saved" or whatever lol


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 11, 2017)

Joliver puts butter in his coffee.


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## ECKSRATED (Feb 11, 2017)

I just googled this "diet" thing you guys speak of.... Doesn't sound fun at allllll


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## ToolSteel (Feb 12, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Joliver puts butter in his coffee.



Well.... Have you tried it??


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 12, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Well.... Have you tried it??



**** no.  I am not putting butter in my damn coffee I don't care how good it tastes or if it would cure my gingervitis. Not happening


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## TrickWilliams (Feb 12, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Joliver puts butter in his coffee.



Everyone does that around my neck of the woods.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 14, 2017)

Joliver said:


> Doc, you are living proof that eventually statistics will soon be on both sides of any contentious argument.



I apologize for the delayed response. I was nowhere near inebriated/drunk enough to respond sooner until now lol. 



> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/
> ^keto study
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1479303/
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2202650/
> ...



Here are several more:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12761365/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19246357/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9861599/



> In my drunken state, everything you said with a study, I found one that says otherwise...assuming I can read.



How many beers deep were you at that point? I need to be on the same level of drunkenness so that I read it the same as you. A BAC reading would be the gold standard. 



> All of those damn studies can easily be refuted with even more asinine studies...



And if studies on both sides are done well yet still refute each other then the causative factor might be completely unrelated or dependent upon the context/person. 



> gold standard and such. But at the end of the day, when bodybuilders want to cut adipose tissue, the macro they eyeball first is the CARB. Carb cycling, low carb, no carb...whatever.



I think a lot of this has to do with unsubstantiated dogma. Remember when fats were evil? Protein was evil too for a short period of time. Now fukking tomatoes and dairy are evil to Paleo people. Those damned nightshades are bloodsuckers. 



> Carbs are the preferred source of fuel in the body. You cannot escape this fact. When carbs (simple especially)are present, they are generally prefered over fat. To deny is a lie.



I completely agree. But when you're in a hypocaloric diet that includes moderate to high carbs, where is the energy going to come from once carbs aren't enough to supply energy needs?



> Also, to say that the calories subtracted from carbs are added to fat--complete misdirection.



I think my example was not clear bc I'm not saying that. Take two diets both 2500 cals, both 250g (1000cals) from protein. One has 1500 cals coming from fat and whatever trace carbs, the other maybe 1000cals of carbs and 500g fat. 

You are saying the higher fat diet will burn more fat bc trace carbs are in the picture and less glucose is coming in from the diet. I agree with this but it's only half the picture. What I'm saying is bc a higher proportion of calories are coming from fat, that means a higher proportion of your calories are also being stored as fat bc the intake of dietary fat has little to do with fat oxidation in the body. The reason I say you store more fat is bc relative to the other diet, you're eating a higher proportion of fat calories. I'm not saying you substitute carb cals for fat cals. 

In the higher carb diet, you do indeed burn less stored fat bc glucose is more abundant from carbs BUT you are storing less fat at the same time bc you're eating proportionately less dietary fat. Remember the stipulation, total calories and protein intake are standardized. 



> I'm all about winning an internet war, but we all know that a low carb diet is generally accepted to be MUCH higher in protein. In fact, add the carbs Cals to the protein when I really need to shed the fat. Only a dipshit takes the carbs out and adds the freed up calories to the fats. That kind of moron would deserve to be fat. And to boot, most people know that they should be consuming more MCTs and not LCTs because they are more readily available to be oxidized and less likely to be stored as fat.
> 
> There a good ways and bad ways to drop fat. VLcarb is a fantastic way. People piss on it for the same reason they piss on cardio. It's not cool to do a "fad."



I don't piss on VLcarb diets. I think they do work great for a good deal of people. I simply think reducing fat and maintaining carb intake as much as possible while cutting cals is also an excellent way to cut fat. 

And I'm lucky this bitched auto saved 17 times bc I'm way too drunk to think about reposting this shit and my phone reloaded the page so many times and each time I lost the content. Thank sweet baby Jesus for the auto save lol


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## sollaris (Mar 21, 2017)

I have done keto....
Keto is not magic..is not anything..
Keto ..vs High protein diet...vs High carb diet...= the same.
The only difrence is that when you are on KETO...after 1 week..the CARB cravings...are gone. like 95%.
If you are in a caloric deficit..you will loose weight...no matter on what diet you are ON.


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## Itburnstopee (Apr 11, 2017)

Here's my understanding of why keto works so well, from the words of Mark Bell: It's the fact that you have to actually be more disciplined in tracking calories, so to actually do keto your foods are so specific. It's easy to eat a ton of fat, someone could just eat spoonfuls of coconut oil if that were the problem. But that fact that you're more inclined to be strict and get each meal just right is the big part here. That being said that applies to any diet

	i get the whole ketosis thing may aid in the fat loss too. Tbh I'm interested in trying keto during this first cut since I started lifting, because reports of 13lbs in 4 weeks is very appealing to me


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 11, 2017)

Itburnstopee said:


> Here's my understanding of why keto works so well, from the words of Mark Bell: It's the fact that you have to actually be more disciplined in tracking calories, so to actually do keto your foods are so specific. It's easy to eat a ton of fat, someone could just eat spoonfuls of coconut oil if that were the problem. But that fact that you're more inclined to be strict and get each meal just right is the big part here. That being said that applies to any diet
> 
> i get the whole ketosis thing may aid in the fat loss too. Tbh I'm interested in trying keto during this first cut since I started lifting, because reports of 13lbs in 4 weeks is very appealing to me



You have to be disciplined losing weight using any method though.


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## Itburnstopee (Apr 12, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> You have to be disciplined losing weight using any method though.




thats exactly what I was saying


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