# Women and HRT Including TRT



## jennerrator

I've been wanting to start a thread on this for awhile. Thing is, I've been doing it a long time and have posted quite a few times my experiences and it doesn't seem to interest many but maybe it will interest older females scanning the boards or open minded male members that have middle aged wives that might be suffering from low testosterone/menopause. I am going to post articles I come across that I deem relevant to the subject. This first article was found after a conversation with my older sister who struggled hard through 5 years of menopause as we discussed my TRT and wondered if it might keep me from having menopausal symptoms. I could easily talk to my Dr. about all of this but would rather do my own research. 

Keep in mind, I will be 49 this year and my sister started menopause at 45...of course realistically this means nothing of when I might start as we are all different and it just can't be pin-pointed. As of this moment I have no symptoms, I am on 25mg of test cyp a week. This dose gives me a great sense of well being, healthy libido, clear mind...great energy and I have no plans to stop. After reading this article, I am pretty sure...I will not suffer from any symptoms while on TRT..I will of course do more research but this was a great start.


*Not for Men Only: An Unlikely Treatment for Menopause*
As her body hurtled into menopause, C.M. Harris was desperate to feel like herself again—until she discovered a most unlikely cure.
By C.M. Harris


_At dinner with my family one night, I found myself crying into my soup. What the—I never cry! Then the hot flash fired up. Aha. I had long cursed my periods, and now they were divorcing me. My five-year treatment for estrogen-receptor-positive breast cancer (the kind that afflicts about 70 percent of breast cancer patients) includes a monthly injection that whispers to my pituitary gland to shut down my ovaries. At 42, I was experiencing menopause a decade early and at warp speed.

The result? A greater likelihood that I'd survive. The side effects? Exhaustion. Excessive sleep. Aching bones. A 20-pound weight gain. Brain fog. Forgetting that sex can be fun.

At my three-month visit to the oncologist, these complaints produced pinched smiles and shrugs. I could hear the unspoken reproach: You're alive, be happy. But what was alive? A strong heartbeat and a few random firings from the wet, wadded-up towel passing for my brain? The doctor offered an anti depressant, which seemed like retreat. I went home and vowed to try positive thinking: At least you didn't need radiation. A least you didn't need chemo. At least you kept your hair. But none of that changed how I felt.

When I relayed my symptoms to my gynecologist, he told me that I likely didn't need an antidepressant. Ovaries also produce the "male" sex hormone, he explained, so when my estrogen dropped, so, too, went the hormone of desire—the desire to have sex, yes, but also to learn, to reach. Testosterone helps build strength in your bones and muscles, helps you think clearly. Without it, you're not fully there.

The oncologist seemed skeptical. She had never treated her patients with testosterone before. Her job was to keep people from dying. But she agreed to discuss replacement therapy with her peers. Three months later, at my next appointment, she apologized for not putting me on that path sooner.

According to the National Institutes of Health, total female testosterone levels should be anywhere between 30 to 95 nanograms per deciliter. A blood test determined that my level was only 21. I started off with a shot in my backside and a prescription for cream that I could massage into my thigh every day.


Over the next month, I waited for the magic to happen. Wild passion. Bulging muscles. The ability to leap tall buildings. All I got, though, was a metallic taste under my tongue. But while I was waiting, I stopped sleeping so much. I eased into work. I quit feeling sorry for myself and started volunteering for sex. Many improvements I didn't even register because they were merely facets of who I had been before.

Then came the breakthrough moment. I was riding my bike, absolutely sailing, when the tunnel I'd been living in suddenly dissolved. My scope expanded and everything came into focus: the cottonwood leaves flickering overhead, the Minneapolis skyline so sharp that windows glittered like molten gold. I smelled the fish in the lake, the pollen-drenched air. I had rejoined the pack. No superhero—just me.

But I wonder, now that I'm back to wondering again: If a "male" hormone can make a female feel like a woman, why are so few of us talking about it?

Symptoms in women may include depression, a severe lack of energy, diminished libido, an inability to focus, and decreased muscle mass—in other words, you just don't feel right. While there are many possible reasons for low testosterone, the most common are aging and menopause. In younger women, oral contraceptives may be the culprit because they suppress all sex hormones. If you are concerned about your testosterone levels, talk to your gynecologist. The FDA has not yet approved a specific product for women, and one of the most popular preparations for men, AndroGel, can cost hundreds per month out of pocket. However, your doctor may be able to prescribe a low-dose compound cream that fits your budget.

_


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## jennerrator

Symptoms of menopause or peri-menopause may not only be unpleasant, they may be quite disabling for some women. However, since publication of the Women’s Health Initiative (WHI) in 2002, there have been concerns raised regarding the safety of hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for women. Whilst many of the earlier fears regarding the risk of heart attack and stroke have been set aside, at least for short term use, there remain some safety issues relating to treatment with estrogen that result in the reluctance of many women to embrace HRT. *There is good evidence now that the unpleasant and limiting symptoms of peri-menopause may be successfully eliminated by treatment with testosterone, either alone or in combination with Estrogen or an estrogen/progesterone combination.*


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## PillarofBalance

That's a great article. More often when a woman hits meno pause the doc can't get estrogen scripts written quick enough.  Which cause breast cancer. 

I wonder if women would get hassled about it like men do?


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## LeanHerm

Well what most don't know is when women hit menopause their test drop in the ovaries causing low test.  Seems they need a proper Balance of estrogen and progesterone. I think when women take test and are unsupervised, can cause sides because they're unbalanced.


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## snake

*Good Job Jenner*

Pay attention my brothers. If for no other reason, the wife may actually ask you for sex.

I just don't get it. The men were so behind the times for years on TRT. Woman were ahead when it came to estrogen replacement but still behind on testosterone replacement. I think what needs to change for woman is the idea of "Steroids". If a woman has diabetes, she has little problem with taking insulin but to take test testosterone, nope. You would be surprised how many woman don't know they have testosterone in their bodies.


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## jennerrator

PillarofBalance said:


> That's a great article. More often when a woman hits meno pause the doc can't get estrogen scripts written quick enough.  Which cause breast cancer.
> 
> I wonder if women would get hassled about it like men do?



What do you mean? Hassled for HRT (as in E & P replacement?)

Obviously most Dr.'s are still in the stoneage...they don't even want to give men TRT...

I put a lot of it on the women though, there is so much information out there now that there is no need to suffer. My dad's late wife refused to do HRT because ...well, one she was stubborn and IMO not all there and two, because her mother told her she would get fat if she did...menopause destroyed her AND my dad's quality of life for years...and then she got cancer and died...no way to live life...not gonna happen.


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## LeanHerm

Androgens slowly go down in their 20s just lIke men untill menopause when they produce slim to none.


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## jennerrator

snake said:


> Pay attention my brothers. If for no other reason, the wife may actually ask you for sex.
> 
> I just don't get it. The men were so behind the times for years on TRT. Woman were ahead when it came to estrogen replacement but still behind on testosterone replacement. I think what needs to change for woman is the idea of "Steroids". If a woman has diabetes, she has little problem with taking insulin but to take test testosterone, nope. You would be surprised how many woman don't know they have testosterone in their bodies.



I know, it blows my mind that this just isn't accepted and dealt with...I also can't comprehended a woman wanting to live through hell for no reason.


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## jennerrator

LeanHerm said:


> Well what most don't know is when women hit menopause their test drop in the ovaries causing low test.  Seems they need a proper Balance of estrogen and progesterone. I think when women take test and are unsupervised, can cause sides because they're unbalanced.



lol, I did test unsupervised at first...just have to be smart about it...hell, even Jan Fonda did TRT from 70-73 and said it was awesome...


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## PillarofBalance

Jenner said:


> What do you mean? Hassled for HRT (as in E & P replacement?)
> 
> Obviously most Dr.'s are still in the stoneage...they don't even want to give men TRT...
> 
> I put a lot of it on the women though, there is so much information out there now that there is no need to suffer. My dad's late wife refused to do HRT because ...well, one she was stubborn and IMO not all there and two, because her mother told her she would get fat if she did...menopause destroyed her AND my dad's quality of life for years...and then she got cancer and died...no way to live life...not gonna happen.



By hassled I mean their initial reaction to the discussion is just no. Rather than let's explore this.  Many in the medical community look at testosterone like it's satans jizz or something.  

Also many physicians don't treat things well that can't be clearly distinguished by bloodwork. For men you may have in range test, say 390.  But that isn't enough sometimes to abate lethargy low libido no aggression ect. Would be the same for women. 

I am curious to see what my wife would test at.


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## DocDePanda187123

PillarofBalance said:


> By hassled I mean their initial reaction to the discussion is just no. Rather than let's explore this.  Many in the medical community look at testosterone like it's satans jizz or something.
> 
> Also many physicians don't treat things well that can't be clearly distinguished by bloodwork. For men you may have in range test, say 390.  But that isn't enough sometimes to abate lethargy low libido no aggression ect. Would be the same for women.
> 
> I am curious to see what my wife would test at.



The issue though is with test levels of 390, the chances of lethargy and low libido, etc beikg attributed to the test levels become very very low.


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## snake

PillarofBalance said:


> That's a great article. More often when a woman hits meno pause the doc can't get estrogen scripts written quick enough.  Which cause breast cancer.



No argument there. I also wonder if like men, there's a ratio the female body likes between T & E. Just as men use testosterone and their estrogen goes up, could the use of anti-estrogen drugs actually decrease a female's total testosterone levels? Maybe I over Bro-scienced that but if this is the case, I see a downward spiral for woman.


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## jennerrator

PillarofBalance said:


> By hassled I mean their initial reaction to the discussion is just no. Rather than let's explore this.  Many in the medical community look at testosterone like it's satans jizz or something.
> 
> Also many physicians don't treat things well that can't be clearly distinguished by bloodwork. For men you may have in range test, say 390.  But that isn't enough sometimes to abate lethargy low libido no aggression ect. Would be the same for women.
> 
> I am curious to see what my wife would test at.



Well imagine this...the lady in the articles levels were "21" and she felt all of that....mine was a "5"...and absolutely it would be the same for treating. My Dr. doesn't only go by #'s, he wants to know how you are feeling...that's how he judges to bump or not.

I'm sure some would just shut it down...that's when you have to Dr. hop lol....Thank God I found my Dr...but I was directed to him by a gym buddy


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## jennerrator

snake said:


> Maybe I over Bro-scienced that but if this is the case, I see a downward spiral for woman.



Downward spiral using TRT?


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## jennerrator

hahahahaha...actually I like how she says "only" 21......yea, I was "only" 5


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## jennerrator

*Think only men need the hormone? Think again.*

_Testosterone is a hormonal chemical mainly associated with men. However, women produce testosterone as well. Testosterone is very good for the female body. Sure, women will need it if they are trying to tone their bodies. But, research has revealed much more about this so-called male hormone.

Testosterone production is substantially lower in women than it is in men. After puberty, a woman begins to produce an adult level of testosterone. The production is split between the ovaries and the adrenal glands. In men, the testes produce testosterone. Women produce just a fraction of the amount of testosterone each day that men do. Here are seven ways testosterone can impact the life of a woman:

1. Weight lifting increases levels of testosterone in women. This helps to build muscle mass without the fear of “bulking up.” Couples who workout together report having improved sex lives. Your repetition range for these exercises should be between 3-5. You would typically do 4-5 sets of each exercise. Rotate heavy lifting days with light lifting days. Do circuit weight training with the lighter weights, with little or no rest between sets.

Women burn more fat by increasing exercise-induced growth hormone. Growth hormone is also important for building muscle. Intense circuit weight training and interval cardio workouts will increase growth hormone levels in the body.

Paul Carpenter is a consultant in endocrinology and health informatics research in Rochester, Minnesota. He has practiced in endocrinology, with a special interest in hormone replacement, for 25 years. He has addressed many questions about the role of testosterone in women. The next five pointers are taken from Carpenter’s research.

2. Testosterone helps maintain muscle and bone mass, in women, and contributes to their sex drive. If you give testosterone replacement to testosterone deficient women, they often feel better, but are not specific as to how.

3. Which women should have their testosterone levels checked? After menopause, testosterone production drops significantly. But, not as sharply as estrogen levels. For women who have had their ovaries removed, testosterone production drops by roughly 50 percent, sometimes resulting in less than normal testosterone blood levels.

Generally, the women who have lower levels of testosterone are those who go to their doctor with concerns such as, “ever since I had my ovaries removed, I do not feel like the same person. I am not as strong, I do not have as much energy and I do not have the same sex drive.” Should we measure testosterone in all women who have had their ovaries removed? I do not know. 

However, if a woman says her sex life has diminished since her hysterectomy, her doctor may check her testosterone level. If her levels are low, she can consider taking testosterone replacement. Why You’re Lacking Energy For Work & Play

Another group of women at risk of low testosterone are those who have lost pituitary gland function. The pituitary sends hormone messages to the adrenal glands and ovaries. Without the pituitary signal, hormones are not manufactured. These women require estrogen and cortisone replacement, and are also testosterone deficient.

4. How important is it for women with low testosterone levels to consider replacement therapy? Low testosterone levels is not an immediate health risk. Yet, think about an older woman with osteoporosis who has fallen and fractured her hip. If her testosterone is low, would replacement have prevented her hip fracture? It is possible. Testosterone has the potential to strengthen bones. Additionally, she might have been able to prevent the fall if her muscle mass had been better.

If a postmenopausal woman is on hormone replacement therapy, does that affect her need for testosterone? Yes. Estrogen therapy — with or without progesterone — can further suppress residual testosterone production by the ovaries. This is due to hormone signals from the pituitary gland, taking estrogen partially reduces the pituitary hormone signal to the ovaries and potentially reduces testosterone production. The pituitary senses there is enough estrogen, so it does not send the signal for more estrogen and testosterone.

5. What are the side effects of testosterone replacement? *When given in appropriate doses, there are no negative side effects. *Today we can measure blood levels, so it is easier to monitor the dosage. Excessive testosterone can cause acne, body hair growth and scalp hair loss in women. Excessive testosterone supplementation, such as with anabolic steroids used by athletes, also tends to drop high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (HDL). That is the “good” cholesterol. Lower HDL levels increase the risk of heart disease.

6. What about other androgens, such as dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)? DHEA is a weak male hormone. Although it is true that DHEA levels decline with age, very few research studies show benefit from replacement. Another New England Journal of Medicine study says DHEA treatment improves sexual function in women who have underactive adrenal glands.

In addition, many people are taking DHEA in very large quantities. Excessive amounts of synthetic androgens drive down HDL cholesterol levels, which is considered a cardiovascular risk. People who are ill often have low DHEA or testosterone levels. This appears to be a normal physiological response to illness and not the cause of the illness.

Barbara L. Minton is a school psychologist and a breast cancer survivor using “alternative” treatments. She has also studied the affects of testosterone on women. The last point is taken from her research.

7. *Testosterone conveys powerful anti-aging effects. It turns fat into muscle, keeps skin supple, increases bone mineral density, puts women in a positive mood and boosts the ability to handle stress. Testosterone also supports cognitive functioning and keeps the liver and blood vessels clean.*

Low testosterone levels have been associated with heart attack, Alzheimer’s disease, osteoporosis, and depression. If you are freezing cold all the time and your thyroid levels are adequate, you are probably low on testosterone. For women, a little bit of testosterone can go a long way in improving looks, figure, energy level, outlook on life, sex appeal and sexual fulfillment. Love Your Body: 35 Ways To Improve Your Health

Women produce increased amounts of testosterone during puberty. Levels of testosterone peak for women in their early 20’s. The decrease in sex drive, due to age, is often exacerbated by oral contraceptives which suppress all sex hormone production. By the time a woman has reached natural menopause, she may have only half of the level of testosterone she once had._


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## snake

Jenner said:


> Downward spiral using TRT?



No for using estrogen replacement in woman.


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## jennerrator

snake said:


> No for using estrogen replacement in woman.



ah, yea...I have to agree with that one...


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## LeanHerm

DocDePanda187123 said:


> The issue though is with test levels of 390, the chances of lethargy and low libido, etc beikg attributed to the test levels become very very low.



My test was at 390 and was still able to smack it everyday and still pull 500. I'm sure if it was 2000, it would be alot different.


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## gymrat827

i think this is something 999 out of 1000 women never look into.


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## Bro Bundy

my test is 300.I feel like shit no drive for anything...fukkin sucks


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## jennerrator

Just some snippets.....


_Indeed an authoritative study, first published in 2006 and since then repeated several times, has shown that testosterone hormone replacement is an important treatment for maintaining bone and muscle and mass in women with testosterone deficiency. ‘Most of the testosterone given to women will be converted into estrogen – and it’s this extra supply of estrogen that promotes bone density

One recent study suggested treatment boosted women’s cognitive function.

The research, presented at the Endocrine Society’s 95th annual meeting in San Francisco in June, found that post-menopausal women who were given a testosterone gel showed significantly greater improvement in verbal learning and memory compared to those given a ‘sham’ gel.

It could also help reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes.

In 2010, research published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism showed that post-menopausal women with low levels of testosterone had an increased risk of cardiovascular disease.

Another small study found that women with heart failure gained physical strength and the ‘ability to function properly’ when they started to take a testosterone supplement.

Meanwhile researchers at Wright State University in Ohio, say it even protects against breast cancer.

The researchers had tracked the incidence of breast cancer in women who had a testosterone implant.

Writing in September 2013 in Maturitas, the official journal of the European Menopause and Andropause Society, they said that unlike conventional combined HRT, which is known to raise the risk of breast cancer slightly, the addition of testosterone appears to cut that risk significantly.  


It’s this kind of research — as much as the testimonials - that has led to an increase in testosterone use in the U.S., with two million prescriptions written for older women every year. It’s far less widely prescribed by cautious doctors in the UK.

There is a huge social stigma among women against using testosterone — and this view is shared by many, probably most GPs

Dr.'s who advise the vast majority of women about HRT — unfortunately, are reluctant to even discuss testosterone replacement. Most women never get to hear about

Meanwhile, the consensus among female hormone specialists is that the treatment should be available to women





_


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## jennerrator

gymrat827 said:


> i think this is something 999 out of 1000 women never look into.



and that's really sad....I'm sure they buy 1,000 pairs of shoes etc...on the net but won't educate themselves on something that could turn their life around..society today


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## gymrat827

Jenner said:


> and that's really sad....I'm sure they buy 1,000 pairs of shoes etc...on the net but won't educate themselves on something that could turn their life around..society today



Since i am an AAS guy, ill get questions from Ms GR friends, but is mainly them asking for things like t3/T4, clen, anything that will make them lose weight.  

but i do try to educate and point things out. 3 days a wk working out, decent diet and looking into things like this every few years can make or break ya.


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## jennerrator

gymrat827 said:


> Since i am an AAS guy, ill get questions from Ms GR friends, but is mainly them asking for things like t3/T4, clen, anything that will make them lose weight.
> 
> but i do try to educate and point things out. 3 days a wk working out, decent diet and looking into things like this every few years can make or break ya.



It's cool that you do that  

Yea, weight loss is more common these days so I can see that.


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## gymrat827

Jenner said:


> It's cool that you do that
> 
> Yea, weight loss is more common these days so I can see that.



once they get a few drinks in em they beg.  They know i can provide so they wont leave me alone sometimes and it gets annoying as hell.  


I tell em to get private bloods and see if anything is off.


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## jennerrator

gymrat827 said:


> once they get a few drinks in em they beg.  They know i can provide so they wont leave me alone sometimes and it gets annoying as hell.
> 
> 
> I tell em to get private bloods and see if anything is off.



lmao...after a few drinks.....no wonder they need to lose weight


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## saltylifter

Damn allot of great info. Hard to add anything else.


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## nightster

Do you have links to the info above? I'd like to share this info.  Thanks Jenner!


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## jennerrator

nightster said:


> Do you have links to the info above? I'd like to share this info.  Thanks Jenner!



I'll see if I can find them again, might have even book marked them


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## AnneC

Hi everybody! 
I'm new here and looking for some advice on the use of test for women outside of the desire to gain muscle/decrease menopause symptoms. 

My boyfriend is the one who alerted me that I might have hormonal issues and probably test deficiency.
Indeed, I got huge mood swings, low sex drive, and every time I get injured/muscle soreness, I take weeks to recover. 
Blood test said that my test levels are 16.02 ng/dL.

Does anyone know if that's ok for a 26 years old female, Caucasian, 1.71m, and 61kg? According to the chart, I'm low in the range (here in Cambodia the lowest is 10 and highest 54) but... I'm still in the range so I should be ok, right? Right...

I'll take any piece of advice, articles, and experience you got. 

Thanks!


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## Jin

AnneC said:


> Hi everybody!
> I'm new here and looking for some advice on the use of test for women outside of the desire to gain muscle/decrease menopause symptoms.
> 
> My boyfriend is the one who alerted me that I might have hormonal issues and probably test deficiency.
> Indeed, I got huge mood swings, low sex drive, and every time I get injured/muscle soreness, I take weeks to recover.
> Blood test said that my test levels are 16.02 ng/dL.
> 
> Does anyone know if that's ok for a 26 years old female, Caucasian, 1.71m, and 61kg? According to the chart, I'm low in the range (here in Cambodia the lowest is 10 and highest 54) but... I'm still in the range so I should be ok, right? Right...
> 
> I'll take any piece of advice, articles, and experience you got.
> 
> Thanks!




You can't necessary go by Cambodian reference ranges. I'm Caucasian and live in Japan and normal Japanese testosterone range is significantly lower than that of the Us.


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## jennerrator

AnneC said:


> Hi everybody!
> I'm new here and looking for some advice on the use of test for women outside of the desire to gain muscle/decrease menopause symptoms.
> 
> My boyfriend is the one who alerted me that I might have hormonal issues and probably test deficiency.
> Indeed, I got huge mood swings, low sex drive, and every time I get injured/muscle soreness, I take weeks to recover.
> Blood test said that my test levels are 16.02 ng/dL.
> 
> Does anyone know if that's ok for a 26 years old female, Caucasian, 1.71m, and 61kg? According to the chart, I'm low in the range (here in Cambodia the lowest is 10 and highest 54) but... I'm still in the range so I should be ok, right? Right...
> 
> I'll take any piece of advice, articles, and experience you got.
> 
> Thanks!



I answered this in your intro thread, you need to get blood tests to know whats going on...DO NOT TRUST SOMEONE JUST TELLING YOU IT'S WHAT'S GOING ON


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## jennerrator

Ok, been awhile but just went through some weird shit...and it's made me  do some simple current research on TRT use for older women...that may  be going through menopause...found this to start and mainly posting for  gentlemen that have aging wives that may benefit from TRT..just as I  have 

*Benefits of Testosterone for Women: The Case for Testosterone Replacement in Aging Women*

 Television, the internet, and magazine ads all target men with  products that address the drop in testosterone that occurs with age, but  despite being classified as a male hormone, testosterone is also  produced by women. While it’s true that men produce far more  testosterone than women do, during the early reproductive years, women  have 10 times more testosterone than estrogen within the body, leading  experts to believe that it’s really testosterone loss that results in  many of the symptoms women go through in midlife, such as low libido,  fatigue, low muscle tone, weight gain, and loss of mental focus.[SUP]1[/SUP]  Testosterone for women has become a hot button issue as women begin to  realize that they too are at risk for deficiencies since testosterone  levels drop with age in women as well. Around the world, testosterone  therapy is being used to treat the symptoms of testosterone deficiency  in both pre- and post-menopausal women as research continues to show  that healthy testosterone levels are essential for the physical and  mental health of both men and women.

*Which Women are at Risk for Testosterone Deficiency*

 Since the ovaries are responsible for producing both estrogen and  testosterone, as the ovaries age, they produce less estrogen and  testosterone.[SUP]2[/SUP] As women enter pre-menopause, testosterone  production is reduced, and once women reach menopause, it’s common for  them to produce less than half the testosterone they did previously.  Every woman becomes at risk for testosterone deficiency as she ages, and  women who go through a hysterectomy or oophorectomy have an even higher  risk of dealing with low testosterone levels.
*
Dangers of Testosterone Deficiencies in Women*

 Women who begin experiencing a testosterone deficiency often notice  many of the same symptoms men deal with as they deal with low T levels.  Low levels of testosterone in women often lead to an increased risk of  osteoporosis, since low T levels can leach away strength from the  skeleton.[SUP]3[/SUP] Low levels can also lead to an increased risk of  gaining weight since testosterone levels have been linked with fat mass  in women in studies published in the American Journal of Epidemiology.[SUP]4[/SUP]  A report published in the Journal of Women’s Health even showed that  testosterone deficiencies could be a risk factor for the development of  heart disease in women.[SUP]5[/SUP] Since cardiovascular disease is the  number one killer of postmenopausal women, this is an interesting  hypothesis that underscores the importance of balanced hormones in  women, including testosterone.
*
Benefits of Testosterone Therapy for Women*

 Both women and men may experience a wide variety of symptoms with low  testosterone, such as fatigue, weight gain, low libido, and mental  fogginess. Testosterone therapy has the potential to relieve these  symptoms. Low libido is one of the most common complaints among aging  women, and studies show that treating women with testosterone can  significantly improve their sex drive.[SUP]6[/SUP] For women going  through menopause, testosterone therapy often provides symptom relief.  Studies show that testosterone therapy in menopausal women can relieve  the symptoms of menopause, including urinary urgency, incontinence,  vaginal dryness, and hot flashes.[SUP]7[/SUP] Testosterone therapy may  also help protect against cardiovascular events, dilating blood vessels  and increasing blood flow, as well as offering a reduced risk of Type 2  diabetes by lowering insulin resistance.[SUP]8[/SUP] While some buy into  the myth that testosterone therapy may increase the risk of breast  cancer, studies show that instead of increasing a woman’s risk for the  disease, taking testosterone may actually help prevent breast cancer.9  Other benefits of testosterone women may experience include improve  focus and mental clarity, reduced fatigue, reduced anxiety, improved  bone density, and increases in lean muscle mass.


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## jennerrator

This is pretty much true as fuuuk....can attest to it over the past going on 4 years 

[h=2]*Do consider using or adding testosterone therapy for pre / menopause management*[/h] Whilst testosterone is generally considered to be a male sex  hormone, it is actually a hormone that is critical for providing energy,  drive and motivation in both men and women. It just happens to drive  the sexual urge as well. Although men have much higher levels of  Testosterone than do women, it is still the predominant of the three  “sex hormones” in women. During reproductive years the blood level of  testosterone in women is about 1000 times that of estrogen! In fact,  estradiol, the biologically active form of estrogen in the body, is only  created by metabolism from testosterone.

Because of this  conversion to estradiol, _*testosterone alone can often treat the sweats,  flashes and dryness associated with lack of estrogen*_. The bonus is an  added benefit of _*improved energy, drive, bone and muscle strength,  increased libido and improved self-esteem*_.


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## Yaya

Save ur life and ur clam.. don't do it.!!!


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## jennerrator

Yaya said:


> Save ur life and ur clam.. don't do it.!!!



lmao....my clam has been quite loved so yea...get to it ladies


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## wham

Hun I'mm a reciever not a giver and estrogen pills will make me a c cup


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## jennerrator

wham said:


> Hun I'mm a reciever not a giver and estrogen pills will make me a c cup




uh...what??? lol


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## SFGiants

wham said:


> Hun I'mm a reciever not a giver and estrogen pills will make me a c cup





jennerrator50 said:


> uh...what??? lol



He takes it in the ass!


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## jennerrator

SFGiants said:


> He takes it in the ass!




oh my.............................................lmao.....my bad


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## Yaya

My wife looks like Dudley Moore.. so if she was to go on trt and her clam actually turned into a dink-dink she would no longer be a she.... it would become a HE


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## jennerrator

Yaya said:


> My wife looks like Dudley Moore.. so if she was to go on trt and her clam actually turned into a dink-dink she would no longer be a she.... it would become a HE




well honey...it's her "clit" that would swell....not "clam" but hey...we all call it different things  

and to each their own on what types of sexual areas turn them on...I mean it's the same for women...you know..like there are different types of "dicks"


----------



## Yaya

The last thing my wife needs is another dick


----------



## jennerrator

Yaya said:


> The last thing my wife needs is another dick



hahaha.....or maybe she needs the first one


----------



## PillarofBalance

jennerrator50 said:


> hahaha.....or maybe she needs the first one



Sorry yaya but she ****ed you up with this one lolol


----------



## Yaya

PillarofBalance said:


> Sorry yaya but she ****ed you up with this one lolol





Sorry folks!!!


----------



## snake

Hey Jenn! Good for you for looking out for the woman in our lives. I wish I could get my wife to see the benefits of HRT but the stigma of "Steroids" looms deep in her mind. Years of hearing how steroids are bad for you has poisoned her to even taking a therapeutic dose.

Thanks for the post.


----------



## jennerrator

snake said:


> Hey Jenn! Good for you for looking out for the woman in our lives. I wish I could get my wife to see the benefits of HRT but the stigma of "Steroids" looms deep in her mind. Years of hearing how steroids are bad for you has poisoned her to even taking a therapeutic dose.
> 
> Thanks for the post.



Thanks hon, we've discussed this before and yea, I wish women wouldn't be so afraid of it...does it cause some sides..yes...are they major...no...are they worth it......FUUK YES 

I'm glad I do it and will never go backwards.....glad you are a husband that would totally be ok with their wife doing it!


----------



## jennerrator

*Great Information:

**HOW TO USE TESTOSTERONE CREAM FOR WOMEN TO BOOST WEIGHT LOSS + ENERGY & MORE*


Low testosterone can lead to weight gain, changes in mood, decreased energy levels and a reduction in libido. 

What's more important is this:

Many women suffer from low testosterone and this condition is missed by most physicians. As a result it becomes very important for you to understand the signs and symptoms of low testosterone to determine if you would benefit from replacement. In this article I'm going to go over why testosterone cream may be one of the best ways to replace low testosterone levels and all of the benefits that you may experiencing during replacement.
Let's dive in...

*Why you should consider Testosterone Replacement Therapy*

Both men and women have and need adequate levels of testosterone. While men do have more testosterone than women, that doesn't mean that testosterone isn't important for women. 

In fact:

Women with low testosterone get many of the SAME symptoms that men get when they have low testosterone. In addition, replacing testosterone is not that difficult and the benefit can be tremendous. Not only that but the diagnosis and management of low testosterone is often missed/ignored in women due to a general lack of understanding about hormone management by most physicians. ​With that in mind let's go over several reasons that may make you rethink the importance of testosterone for women and consider using it yourself: 

*#1. Testosterone can help increase libido and sex drive*
​
One of the main reasons that both men and women lose their libido overtime is due to a decline in testosterone. Testosterone has been shown to *INCREASE sex drive* and libido in women with low testosterone levels. ​Not only does it increase sex drive but it can also reduce time to orgasm and increase pleasure during intercourse. To see a full list of therapies that can help improve libido and increase sex drive please read *this post*. ​
*
#2. May improve overall mood, reduce depressive symptoms and reduce irritability*

Do you feel yourself getting more irritable as you age? Or that you can't control your emotions as well as you used to? Some of this change may be related to low testosterone levels. Studies have shown that replacing low testosterone levels *can act as an anti-depressant*. ​In addition testosterone in physiologic (normal) dosages actually has a calming effect on the mind and body. 
*
#3. May help increase lean muscle mass and increase metabolism*

Supplementing to normal and healthy testosterone levels has been shown to *increase lean muscle mass* in both men and women. 
​This has two beneficial side effects: First an increase in lean muscle mass helps with weight loss by increasing your metabolism. 
Everyone is looking to shed a couple extra pounds and increasing your metabolism is one way to do this.
A higher metabolism means it takes more energy at rest to eat, breath and sleep. Much of this metabolism is mediated through your muscle mass. So higher muscle mass = higher metabolism = more weight loss. Make sense? ​Second it improves body composition and can tighten up loose skin in certain areas on the female body. 
One symptom of muscle mass is "loose skin", especially in the upper arm area. As muscle mass declines (termed *sarcopenia*) and your muscle mass shrinks your body will replace that excess space with subcutaneous fat. This process may result in sagging skin. ​Taking testosterone can help replace that loss mass in the skeletal muscle and restore much of the strength that was lost. ​This issue is more than just cosmetic. Reduced muscle mass leads to higher frequency in falls, inability to maintain balance and weight gain. Giving you more than just 1 reason to build those muscles up. ​

*#4. ​May help with weight loss (especially weight gained after menopause)*

This is a big one. Most women tend to *gain weight during menopause* (sometimes as much as 15 pounds) and this weight gain is felt to be caused by changes in hormone levels. At least some (if not a huge portion) of this weight gain is secondary to lower testosterone levels showing the impact that this hormone has on weight. Replacing testosterone levels isn't going to be a weight loss miracle pill, but it can certainly go a long way to helping reduce any extra weight that was gained due to its deficiency. ​This is one of the reasons that many women opt to use testosterone cream and other forms of testosterone replacement: to lose extra pounds. ​This effect on weight loss is probably mediated through the factors we mentioned previously: changes in skeletal muscle mass and metabolism. Although testosterone also alters energy levels and helps women stay up and active. ​
*
#5. May increase or stabilize low energy levels​*

*Testosterone Cream vs Pellets vs Shots*

​If those benefits listed above were enough to at least pique your interest then keep reading...There are several factors to consider when replacing testosterone levels and different vehicles to make it happen. Some methods are definitely better than others so it's worth discussing each in detail and giving pros and cons of each. You can then use this as a general guide to determine which form of testosterone will be best for you.

*Benefits of Testosterone Cream (Including gels/patches as well)*

​Testosterone cream is probably one of the most common forms of testosterone replacement therapy and for good reason. When replacing hormones it's best (whenever possible) to mimic or emulate how the body produces hormones. This is especially important with testosterone: In the female body testosterone is produced by the *ovaries and the adrenal glands*. This hormone is then dumped directly into the blood stream (avoiding the GI tract) where it hits target tissues and exerts its effects. Using testosterone as a cream or anything that goes through the skin closely mimics this natural progression through your body. This should be compared to taking testosterone (or any other hormone) in a pill or capsule. By taking it by mouth the hormone is absorbed through the GI tract where it hits the liver and is metabolized FIRST before it can hit all of your target tissues. _(This phenomenon is well known and called the *first pass effect or first pass metabolism*)_

This reduces the potency of the hormone and also may cause dangerous side effects due to potentially harmful breakdown products in the liver. ​For this reason most physicians and patients tend to opt by taking trans-dermal (meaning through the skin) formulations ​of testosterone. Using testosterone cream allows for a sustained and controlled release throughout the day that avoids this first pass effect. 
*
Who should use testosterone cream?​*

Most women who know they have low testosterone and are experiencing any of the symptoms of low testosterone should at least start with a trial of testosterone cream, gel or a testosterone patch. Attempting testosterone cream for at least 2-3 months and checking blood tests at the 6-8 week mark will allow for adequate time to determine if it is working for you. 

*Benefits of Testosterone Shots*

​Instead of getting testosterone through creams, gels or patches sometimes patients opt to use injections once every week instead. 
Using injections is worth considering in the following circumstances:



*You have previously tried and failed testosterone creams*
*Your testosterone blood levels are not increasing even after increasing the dose and concentration of your cream*
*You haven't noticed any positive side effects from creams/gels/patches*
*You prefer once a week dosing over once daily dosing (or have a hard time remembering to use your testosterone)*
*You are having trouble getting your cream/gel/patch prescription filled*

​Generally I reserve testosterone injections for patients who fall into the above categories. ​The benefit to using shots is that you get a higher concentration of testosterone in one sitting, this makes positive (and potentially negative) side effects easier to identify. 
​One of the downsides is that testosterone levels peak after day 2-3 of the injection and then slowly fall back down over the next 4-5 days. 
This doesn't allow for the same sustained tissue levels of testosterone that creams/gels allow for. ​Having said that some women just do better on testosterone injections vs creams so it is worth considering this option for most women. ​

*Pellets and Oral/Sublingual Testosterone*

Another commonly used form of testosterone replacement (or other hormones) is through pellets. Pellets are surgically implanted pellets that contain a high dose of hormones that slowly dissolves over months. Because of this mechanism there is far less control over dosing meaning that the dose tends to be either too high (causing negative side effects) or too low (failing to cause positive side effects). Couple this concern with the fact that you need to undergo a surgical incision to place it in your body and pellets look even worse. ​In my experience it's far better to use creams/gels/creams/shots over pellets due to these reasons. You might consider using a pellet if they have previously worked well for you in the past or if you can't tolerate gels/creams/patches/shots. ​

*Diagnosing Low Testosterone*

Diagnosing low testosterone is actually not very difficult (we will go over it below). The hard part is getting the right kind of treatment and the right type/form of medication. The problem with hormones is that most physicians are not trained on how to replace hormone imbalances and so they don't appreciate their importance or the benefit they may provide. As a result it's usually better to look for a physician who specializes in hormone replacement therapy for the best results. ​Alternatively, if your physician IS willing to work with you, you can simply ask for a couple tests to determine how your hormones are doing. 

To diagnose low testosterone you need to check the following labs:



Free testosterone (optimal ranges for both below)​
Total testosterone​

Ordering the right tests is only half the battle, the other half is understanding how to interpret them correctly. To illustrate this I've included an example of real lab results below...​
*
Example of obviously low testosterone* _(falling outside of the reference range): _






This case is typical and very obvious. 
The total testosterone is low at less than 3 with a range of 3-41.
The DHEA (another androgen) is also low at 26.7 with a range of 41.2 - 243.7. 
​This is an obvious case of low testosterone and if this patient also had symptoms of low testosterone she should consider replacement. 
On the other hand, some patients have what is referred to as "sub optimal" hormone levels that still technically fall within the "normal" range. ​
*
Example of sub optimal testosterone levels in women*_ (inside the range but still low and needs replacement): _






In this example the free testosterone is sub optimal at 0.14 with a range of 0.06 - 0.98.
The total testosterone is also sub optimal at ​8.5 with a range of 8 - 60. 
​This is another example of a patients labs that should be treated even though they "technically" fall within the normal ranges. 
As a general rule, if you are a woman who is symptomatic with testosterone levels in the bottom 50% of the reference range then you should consider testosterone replacement therapy. ​
*
Lab studies you should get checked​*

When checking your testosterone levels it's also a good idea to evaluate your other hormone levels.

*The reason is simple:
*
If you have one hormone imbalances, you are much more likely to have other hormone imbalances as well.
Because of this you should consider getting a complete hormone panel to ensure proper treatment.
I recommend the following labs: 



*Testosterone free and total*
*Estradiol and progesterone*
*Complete thyroid panel* (see the link for the complete list)
*DHEA* (another important androgen)
*Insulin* and *leptin* (helpful if you have weight issues)

​This panel is a great starting point and should allow a full evaluation of your hormone profile. 

*Where should I apply it?*

Testosterone is usually best if applied to the upper/inner arm area. Any area with high vascularity and low subcutaneous fat will work well, but remember you should not use multiple hormones on the same area of skin. For this reason I usually recommend that women reserve the forearm area for estrogen/progesterone and use testosterone on the upper arm area. ​If you aren't using other hormones trans-dermally then you can also consider these areas for application: thighs, lower abdomen area, forearms, neck area and/or vaginal mucosa. 
Testosterone can also be applied vaginally (assuming your formulation won't burn or cause problems) and may be very beneficial especially if you are suffering from low libido or low sex drive. ​
*
How long does it take to work?*

You should notice improvement in your symptoms within 4-8 weeks of starting testosterone replacement therapy. In some cases women continue to experience slight benefits over the next several months, and some symptoms take time (like building muscle mass), but energy levels and libido should increase within 4-8 weeks. ​This assume that your dose is adequate and that your blood levels of testosterone are increasing on your current dose. 
*
Is it dangerous or are there any side effects?*

Testosterone replacement is generally well tolerated. 
Symptoms usually occur if the dose of testosterone is too high. 
These symptoms include:



*Hormonal or cystic acne, may also increase oil production of the skin*
*Changes in hair growth* _(facial hair growth or dark/coarse hair growth) _
*Changes in mood* _(usually more irritable) _
*Very high increase in libido*

If these side effects occur while using testosterone cream or gel then the side effects will fade within days. If they occur with testosterone pellets then they may take months to improve. Side effects from testosterone shots should improve within 7 days. ​
*​
How much should I take & what is the dosage?*

​Dosing varies upon individual and should be based on a combination of lab tests and symptomatic relief. The reason for this is the absorption of testosterone depends on the individual, how quickly they metabolize the testosterone and how much their body actually needs. Because of these reasons ​testosterone doses vary from person to person and will require some degree of trial and error (including lab monitoring) to find your specific dose. 
*
Recap + Final Thoughts*

Testosterone replacement therapy, specifically testosterone gel or cream, has multiple potential benefits for women including: weight loss, increased energy levels, building lean muscle mass and helping with mood. When diagnosing low testosterone it's best to use a combination of lab tests plus symptoms. Remember to use the "optimal" ranges vs the standard "normal" ranges when determining both if and how much testosterone you may need.


----------



## jennerrator

Great information and for you guys that have the high sex drive and the wife doesn't...of course this is mainly for older women but I know that younger women just like younger men can have low test for whatever reason...so hopefully if your wife has an issue and reads this..maybe she will understand that she can have a great life altogether as it's not just related to sex!


----------



## dk8594

You rock, Jen!!! Great post!


----------



## jennerrator

And....I’m starting the cream through my Dr....no more pinning my own, like I have the past 5 years:32 (17)::32 (20):


----------



## dk8594

Elivo, this might be something to GENTLY share with your wife.


----------



## bebeav

Good information, thx Jen!!


----------



## snake

jennerrator50 said:


> And....I’m starting the cream through my Dr....no more pinning my own, like I have the past 5 years:32 (17)::32 (20):



This is a good thing for you and I'm sure you're ecstatic. Another thing that I think is important was that fact you got it tested. 95% of the women out there don't know enough to even ask for the TT test. It's also a shame that the Dr are not on this too.


----------



## jennerrator

snake said:


> This is a good thing for you and I'm sure you're ecstatic. Another thing that I think is important was that fact you got it tested. 95% of the women out there don't know enough to even ask for the TT test. It's also a shame that the Dr are not on this too.



Yep...life is WAY different now and in my eyes..shits gotta be “correct” now lol 

Im just happy as fuuuck I’m not a tripper...have always taken care of business!!:32 (20):


----------



## jennerrator

snake said:


> This is a good thing for you and I'm sure you're ecstatic. Another thing that I think is important was that fact you got it tested. 95% of the women out there don't know enough to even ask for the TT test. It's also a shame that the Dr are not on this too.



and some funny shit is....first test years ago it came back at "5", this test it came back at "4"...not bad change I guess but low as fuuuck...at this point I'm lucky that the only thing that's not where I want it and I assume that "tons" of women have this....low sex drive...and It's not a weird thing/feeling...it's just something I could pass on and that's not what I want for myself or my other half......answer for that issue...TRT!!


----------



## gymrat827

snake said:


> Hey Jenn! Good for you for looking out for the woman in our lives. I wish I could get my wife to see the benefits of HRT but the stigma of "Steroids" looms deep in her mind. Years of hearing how steroids are bad for you has poisoned her to even taking a therapeutic dose.
> 
> Thanks for the post.



mine would be the same, you couldnt talk her into it no matter what


----------



## jennerrator

gymrat827 said:


> mine would be the same, you couldnt talk her into it no matter what




Sad, I just don’t understand women this day and age!!!!!


----------



## snake

gymrat827 said:


> mine would be the same, you couldnt talk her into it no matter what



I kid you not; my wife actually thought men have testosterone and woman have estrogen. That a man didn't have estrogen and a woman didn't have testosterone. So where do you start from with that type of information? You have to figure any conversation is doomed with that lack of understanding. Add in that it's coming from a dumb ass like her husband and you can see how far it was going to go.


----------



## gymrat827

snake said:


> I kid you not; my wife actually thought men have testosterone and woman have estrogen. That a man didn't have estrogen and a woman didn't have testosterone. So where do you start from with that type of information? You have to figure any conversation is doomed with that lack of understanding. Add in that it's coming from a dumb ass like her husband and you can see how far it was going to go.




I had to teach mine this over a year or two about 10yrs back.  She just didnt get it and at that time, studying to be a nurse.  lol


----------



## Jin

snake said:


> I kid you not; my wife actually thought men have testosterone and woman have estrogen. That a man didn't have estrogen and a woman didn't have testosterone. So where do you start from with that type of information? You have to figure any conversation is doomed with that lack of understanding. Add in that it's coming from a dumb ass like her husband and you can see how far it was going to go.



I've gone to doctors here and asked for e2 test. They look it up in the book and say "we can't test you for that because that's a female hormone". These are just dumb GPs but nonetheless....


----------



## jennerrator

Got my cream today...will post what my test level gets to when ready lol


----------



## dk8594

jennerrator50 said:


> Got my cream today...will post what my test level gets to when ready lol



Test cream was my gateway drug. Enjoy!


----------



## jennerrator

dk8594 said:


> Test cream was my gateway drug. Enjoy!



Awesome!!! Just glad to hear it works!!!!!

I feel pretty damn good at the low ass level I'm at right now but I'm ok with getting it up to a healthy level:32 (20):


----------



## jennerrator

So...just an FYI for older wives lol...some already know this...........

Had blood tests done on hormones due to not bad "warm flashes" (and that being the only thing I am feeling for menopause) results showed that I'm having menopause symptoms so Dr. prescribed Estrogen patches and Progestin pills.

Now, of course with my recent issue I'm on top of anything I put in my body and freaked the fuuuck out when I read that the Estrogen is related to cancer so at the Oncologist office yesterday I asked if I could take them...was told that the area that Estrogen could cause cancer is ovaries and breasts only supposedly so if I need them....I can take them.

But...I don't need them at this moment as I feel great...might not ever need them (which I'm pretty sure will be the case as I'm lucky about that type of stuff).

Anyway, just stating things learned...it's awesome!


----------



## Gadawg

Congrats on your winning battle Jenn!


----------



## jennerrator

Gadawg said:


> Congrats on your winning battle Jenn!



Thanks!! All about living life the best lol..wish more women understood how great they could feel


----------



## jennerrator

This is what I'm taking.....


----------



## PillarofBalance

jennerrator50 said:


> This is what I'm taking.....
> 
> View attachment 5957
> View attachment 5958



Anally? Looks like a suppository lol


----------



## jennerrator

PillarofBalance said:


> Anally? Looks like a suppository lol




Dude.........lmfao


----------



## jennerrator

Lmao...just noticed my “hot flashes” have started to not happen often and I haven’t even been on that long

Not that I’ve had many..but now less..I’m sure they will stop altogether soon!

Wasn’t having them before I stopped using February...so...TRT is the bomb!!


----------



## dk8594

jennerrator50 said:


> Lmao...just noticed my “hot flashes” have started to not happen often and I haven’t even been on that long
> 
> Not that I’ve had many..but now less..I’m sure they will stop altogether soon!
> 
> Wasn’t having them before I stopped using February...so...TRT is the bomb!!



That’s interesting. I never would have guessed that testosterone is related to hot flashes. I learn something new here everyday


----------



## jennerrator

dk8594 said:


> That’s interesting. I never would have guessed that testosterone is related to hot flashes. I learn something new here everyday



Same here but of course I have no idea when they started in the first place as I had been on TRT for years...maybe they just started in May for the first time ever but the cream is making them stop so I'm game for it..hopefully it's the only side I get from menopause because I am against the other hormone treatments and I feel awesome so maybe I'm lucky. I've heard horror stories about women that suffer from menopause.


----------



## stevenmd

Jenn - thank you for starting this thread.  I am still reading through it.  My soon to be wifey is - I believe - going through the early phases of menopause but her Dr is telling her she is just fine.  She will be 49 next month, has adopted my gymrat lifestyle and is an amazing woman.  It really pisses me off that her Dr won't even run the bloodwork to check any of her levels.  After reading a lot of this thread, I think I am going to pay cash for an out of network Dr to do her bloodwork.  Like I said, I have still to read this whole thread and maybe it mentions it in one of the posts, but what should be checked in her labs?  Test - like men, does this have to be done at a certain time of the day?  Estrogen I know.  Anything else?


----------



## jennerrator

stevenmd said:


> Jenn - thank you for starting this thread.  I am still reading through it.  My soon to be wifey is - I believe - going through the early phases of menopause but her Dr is telling her she is just fine.  She will be 49 next month, has adopted my gymrat lifestyle and is an amazing woman.  It really pisses me off that her Dr won't even run the bloodwork to check any of her levels.  After reading a lot of this thread, I think I am going to pay cash for an out of network Dr to do her bloodwork.  Like I said, I have still to read this whole thread and maybe it mentions it in one of the posts, but what should be checked in her labs?  Test - like men, does this have to be done at a certain time of the day?  Estrogen I know.  Anything else?



Awesome you are reading this for your lady!! Article on page 5 is the bomb and all you need about TRT. As far as menopause test..it’s called FSH Test..you can google it but my GP Dr. is also a hormone Dr. and that’s the menopause blood test he does.

Sad her Dr. is that way...I’d look for someone else!

No, tests don’t have to be done at a certain time of day

Pages 5-6 are the most current info and what’s going on..lol


----------



## notsoswoleCPA

snake said:


> I kid you not; my wife actually thought men have testosterone and woman have estrogen. That a man didn't have estrogen and a woman didn't have testosterone. So where do you start from with that type of information? You have to figure any conversation is doomed with that lack of understanding. Add in that it's coming from a dumb ass like her husband and you can see how far it was going to go.



It could be worse...  The NP at my original TRT doctor said that men didn't need estrogen and said that my 6.8 pg/mL estradiol level was nothing to worry about, even though I felt like crap.

In other news, my wife showed me her labs and her testosterone was at 138 ng/dL from the topical cream that is prescribed to her.  Unfortunately, I cannot get her in the gym.


----------



## jennerrator

Lol...bummer but at least you’re getting good sex I hope


----------



## Chillinlow

Have you looked into pellets Jenn. A lot of females are in pellets today its the thing
of the future.


----------



## jennerrator

Nope...I’m good with cream lol

But others might like those for sure!


----------



## Elivo

jennerrator50 said:


> Nope...I’m good with cream lol
> 
> But others might like those for sure!



Ive looked into the diff types of TRT, the pellets were expensive as hell at every place i saw that offered them.


----------



## Chillinlow

Elivo said:


> Ive looked into the diff types of TRT, the pellets were expensive as hell at every place i saw that offered them.



Compared to injections pretty expensive Think around $900 for 4-5 months but no pinning every week or putting cream on everyday  etc . Friend of mine is loving it. The release is suppose to be more consistent as well. Been to three clinics lately and they are all pushing it over injections.


----------



## jennerrator

Elivo said:


> Ive looked into the diff types of TRT, the pellets were expensive as hell at every place i saw that offered them.



lol...never looked at them but have read about them...plus I'm old school and cream works


----------



## jennerrator

Chillinlow said:


> Compared to injections pretty expensive Think around $900 for 4-5 months but no pinning every week or putting cream on everyday  etc . Friend of mine is loving it. The release is suppose to be more consistent as well. Been to three clinics lately and they are all pushing it over injections.



That's awesome for sure and as long as it works and is affordable ...they should do it!...


----------



## jennerrator

well fuuuck....................I guess with whats going on with my body now (at the moment) I am losing a bit of hair now that the test has kicked in...I'm not ok with it and upset that this is the first time having this issue at this extreme soooooooo...I'm going to call Dr. and have blood test earlier than planned to see what level I'm at to see what I want to do. Even though it's just the cream...I might only apply 2x a week vs everyday as I don't have any issues with that.

We shall see what happens!


----------



## Jin

jennerrator50 said:


> well fuuuck....................I guess with whats going on with my body now (at the moment) I am losing a bit of hair now that the test has kicked in...I'm not ok with it and upset that this is the first time having this issue at this extreme soooooooo...I'm going to call Dr. and have blood test earlier than planned to see what level I'm at to see what I want to do. Even though it's just the cream...I might only apply 2x a week vs everyday as I don't have any issues with that.
> 
> We shall see what happens!



Never used creams but dosing and consistent absorption/utilization is better with injections. I know you were psyched about the cream but you may end up going back to injections.


----------



## jennerrator

Jin said:


> Never used creams but dosing and consistent absorption/utilization is better with injections. I know you were psyched about the cream but you may end up going back to injections.



Unfortunatly the issue with injecting is...

1. I can’t afford prescribed test injections (vial or my Dr. injecting)

2. I can not get the correct dose to inject from an underground 

3. I will not go past the dose amount that will keep my test level 40-50

I’ll figure it out as the biggest reason for me taking it is to have a normal sex life...lol


----------



## Rumpy

jennerrator50 said:


> 2. I can not get the correct dose to inject from an underground



Have you ever asked?  I know a guy that would be more than happy to dilute it to what ever strength you need.


----------



## jennerrator

Cecil said:


> Have you ever asked?  I know a guy that would be more than happy to dilute it to what ever strength you need.



Well that would be wonderful but I don’t know proper dose yet....working on that!


----------



## Elivo

jennerrator50 said:


> Unfortunatly the issue with injecting is...
> 
> 1. I can’t afford prescribed test injections (vial or my Dr. injecting)
> 
> 2. I can not get the correct dose to inject from an underground
> 
> 3. I will not go past the dose amount that will keep my test level 40-50
> 
> I’ll figure it out as the biggest reason for me taking it is to have a normal sex life...lol



How much does it cost for you to get test for injection? Im only asking cause through my doctor  i only end up paying like 20-30 a month for my test that i inject at home. And that is without using my insurance to pay for it.


----------



## jennerrator

Elivo said:


> How much does it cost for you to get test for injection? Im only asking cause through my doctor  i only end up paying like 20-30 a month for my test that i inject at home. And that is without using my insurance to pay for it.



Not sure...going to make an appt and ask but I seriously doubt it's that cheap here ...plus curious why going back to injection is going to change the issue...I'm sure it's hard for folks to understand that my body is reacting way different to many things thanks to the left side of brain surgery


----------



## Elivo

jennerrator50 said:


> Not sure...going to make an appt and ask but I seriously doubt it's that cheap here ...plus curious why going back to injection is going to change the issue...I'm sure it's hard for folks to understand that my body is reacting way different to many things thanks to the left side of brain surgery




NO no, im not suggesting going back to anything, im just curious how much it must cost out there, you need to go with whatever is going to work best for you for your body. No doubt about that, youre going through and have gone through more than most of us will ever have to deal with.


----------



## jennerrator

Elivo said:


> NO no, im not suggesting going back to anything, im just curious how much it must cost out there, you need to go with whatever is going to work best for you for your body. No doubt about that, youre going through and have gone through more than most of us will ever have to deal with.



lol...no worries...I'm just trying to figure shit out and I will...as I always do:32 (20):


----------



## BRICKS

Some info on pellets

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4431706/


----------



## Elivo

jennerrator50 said:


> lol...no worries...I'm just trying to figure shit out and I will...as I always do:32 (20):



Have no doubts that youll get shit figured out. Keep us updated


----------



## jennerrator

BRICKS said:


> Some info on pellets
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4431706/



Damn....great read..I think someone mentioned these and said they are about $900..not sure but will ask my Dr. 

Thanks for the read.....


----------



## Elivo

700$ from a place around here, quit looking into it after i saw that price tag LOL.

But that was through a clinic, didnt bother asking my doctor at the time cause he was being a bit of a dick about the whole trt thing anyway.


----------



## jennerrator

Elivo said:


> 700$ from a place around here, quit looking into it after i saw that price tag LOL.
> 
> But that was through a clinic, didnt bother asking my doctor at the time cause he was being a bit of a dick about the whole trt thing anyway.



Exactly...way to much money that I want to spend on it for sure...but sounds like a great way to do test...


----------



## Elivo

jennerrator50 said:


> Exactly...way to much money that I want to spend on it for sure...but sounds like a great way to do test...



Yeah if they work as well as ive seen people say they do, im happy with the injections, its cheap and i can monkey around with the dose.....potentially :32 (20):


----------



## jennerrator

Elivo said:


> Yeah if they work as well as ive seen people say they do, im happy with the injections, its cheap and i can monkey around with the dose.....potentially :32 (20):



Yea the dose issue would have to be straight on for me!! LOL


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## Rumpy

Yeah, I really doubt they make a pellet that would be low enough for you.


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## jennerrator

I’ve never researched them as I’m not really into putting something in my body like that...but research answers everything..lol


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## Elivo

Cecil said:


> Yeah, I really doubt they make a pellet that would be low enough for you.



I dont know, i didnt look into them once i saw the price, but they can make all these other transdermals and stuff in all sorts of doses, i dont see why they wouldnt be able to do the same with the pellets.
Although i agree with Jenn, i wouldnt want that in my body i dont think. Price aside im just not a huge fan of the idea.


----------



## Jin

Elivo said:


> I dont know, i didnt look into them once i saw the price, but they can make all these other transdermals and stuff in all sorts of doses, i dont see why they wouldnt be able to do the same with the pellets.
> Although i agree with Jenn, i wouldnt want that in my body i dont think. Price aside im just not a huge fan of the idea.



biggest issue is you are stuck at the pellet dose for 3-4 months each pop. Doesn't leave much room for tweaking the dose. Accuracy and the ability to quickly titrate: One of many reasons why injections are the best method. 

Seeing as how small a dose of test a woman needs, and the lack of awareness and utilization of TRT in women, I doubt there's a pellet for her.


----------



## Elivo

Jin said:


> biggest issue is you are stuck at the pellet dose for 3-4 months each pop. Doesn't leave much room for tweaking the dose. Accuracy and the ability to quickly titrate: One of many reasons why injections are the best method.
> 
> Seeing as how small a dose of test a woman needs, and the lack of awareness and utilization of TRT in women, I doubt there's a pellet for her.



Thats a really good point. The tweaking is one of the reasons I really like my injections. 
I didn’t think about how small a dose a woman would need, probably not even worth them doing


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## dk8594

*Women and TRT*



BRICKS said:


> Some info on pellets
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4431706/




Whenever anyone mentions pellets I always think of the heifer implanter gun that came free with the finaplex pellets.  Not sure how big the needle was, but if someone said 2g it wouldn’t surprise me. Pip?


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## jennerrator

That looks scary lol

Going for blood test tomorrow to see where I’m at


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## dk8594

jennerrator50 said:


> That looks scary lol
> 
> Going for blood test tomorrow to see where I’m at



Cool. Let us know when you get your results


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## Elivo

dk8594 said:


> Whenever anyone mentions pellets I always think of the heifer implanter gun that came free with the finaplex pellets.  Not sure how big the needle was, but if someone said 2g it wouldn’t surprise me. Pip?



PISS ON THAT THING!!!!!!!  I have no issues with needles but WTF, is that for implanting a damn brick?


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## BRICKS

Elivo said:


> PISS ON THAT THING!!!!!!!  I have no issues with needles but WTF, is that for implanting a damn brick?



When I implant I don't use a needle....wait.....


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## jennerrator

So...had blood taken today so will see what my test is now with the cream but I didn't use it this week..because of the hair loss deal.

Talked to Dr. about it and he gave me shots to do myself after the one they gave me there today...funny as hell as they were going to give it to me in the ass and I was uh...no...and showed her where to inject it!!! Shots are $15 bucks and it's two a month...cheaper than the damn cream and injecting is what I'm use to so all good...also, she had the long ass needles on them....fuuuck that, I had her put the shortest ones on there.

Also gave me a prescription to a hair growth liquid and I will post a pic of that stuff but not getting it till next Friday.....shits looking better....fuuuck LOL


----------



## PillarofBalance

jennerrator50 said:


> So...had blood taken today so will see what my test is now with the cream but I didn't use it this week..because of the hair loss deal.
> 
> Talked to Dr. about it and he gave me shots to do myself after the one they gave me there today...funny as hell as they were going to give it to me in the ass and I was uh...no...and showed her where to inject it!!! Shots are $15 bucks and it's two a month...cheaper than the damn cream and injecting is what I'm use to so all good...also, she had the long ass needles on them....fuuuck that, I had her put the shortest ones on there.
> 
> Also gave me a prescription to a hair growth liquid and I will post a pic of that stuff but not getting it till next Friday.....shits looking better....fuuuck LOL
> 
> View attachment 6145



Holy shit problem solved. Excellent


----------



## jennerrator

PillarofBalance said:


> Holy shit problem solved. Excellent



Thank the fuuuckin lord and it’s about time!! 

There’s a way to fix shit..just gotta do homework!


----------



## Rumpy

I'm really curious to know how every other week works out for you.  As you know, my girl is doing once a week, same as you used to, and by the end of the week she's ready for the next one.


----------



## jennerrator

We’ll see but I have no issues with skipping time..I’ve never felt being off or needing to stay on a serious schedule...guess I’m lucky!


----------



## Gadawg

Yeah, that seems like an awful long time apart. I know when I did 10 days straight between pins, my anxiety went through the damn roof and it was not a placebo type effect. Maybe it's different in women but Id lose my mind on that protocal.  Im sure you'll get it worked out jenn


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## Gadawg

And you already responded. Lol


----------



## jennerrator

Gadawg said:


> And you already responded. Lol



yes..yes I did

I have to admit I think it’s a mental thing to an extent..think we discussed this a tad:32 (20):


----------



## KINGIV

Why did they pre-load it in the syringes?


----------



## Rumpy

KINGIV said:


> Why did they pre-load it in the syringes?



Jenn can't do math or be trusted to measure it herself.


----------



## jennerrator

KINGIV said:


> Why did they pre-load it in the syringes?



lol..that’s just getting the proper amount for me and he’s also a hormone Dr. so that’s normal for him to do..I’m so lucky!


----------



## Elivo

Nice Jenn, Good to see that worked out, and at a good price too, shit cant beat that


----------



## jennerrator

Elivo said:


> Nice Jenn, Good to see that worked out, and at a good price too, shit cant beat that



Life is good my dear..life is good


----------



## KINGIV

jennerrator50 said:


> lol..that’s just getting the proper amount for me and he’s also a hormone Dr. so that’s normal for him to do..I’m so lucky!



I was just thinking if it's not pre loaded you could divide the dose and do ever week to keep blood levels more consistent.

I guess the cream didn't work out for you to well?


----------



## jennerrator

KINGIV said:


> I was just thinking if it's not pre loaded you could divide the dose and do ever week to keep blood levels more consistent.
> 
> I guess the cream didn't work out for you to well?



oh I’m fine with the way it is...I’ve never had any issues...

nope, with the way the cream goes threw the skin it’s different and isn’t working good with me hair wise so back to the injections and yes...just like everyone else about having to put the cream on everyday!!


----------



## Gadawg

jennerrator50 said:


> yes..yes I did
> 
> I have to admit I think it’s a mental thing to an extent..think we discussed this a tad:32 (20):




I can assure you it isn't. I think Im a hyperresponder to trt because I might have been hypogonadal for so long.  I have a severe allergy to mammal meat so I think by the nature of my diet, I lack many necessary nutrients and the healthy cholesterol to manage hormones as well as they should be for a serious lifter.  I can say for certain that all of my depression and the majority of my anxiety has lifted thanks to trt.


----------



## jennerrator

Gadawg said:


> I can assure you it isn't. I think Im a hyperresponder to trt because I might have been hypogonadal for so long.  I have a severe allergy to mammal meat so I think by the nature of my diet, I lack many necessary nutrients and the healthy cholesterol to manage hormones as well as they should be for a serious lifter.  I can say for certain that all of my depression and the majority of my anxiety has lifted thanks to trt.



Well I’ve agreed that it’s different for everyone..if you have issues it helps then it’s awesome..but I know some folks don’t have actual issues..it’s in the mind


----------



## jennerrator

I have missed shots...putting on cream.....was off 5 months after doing it for years and was fine going from 267 test level to a 4...hmmmmm no issues until 4-5 weeks taking it by cream...only new issue, I never had was serious hair loss but was explained to me that the way it goes through the system is why I had an issue...back to the shots and sure all will be great again like the years I was injecting :32 (20):


----------



## dk8594

jennerrator50 said:


> I have missed shots...putting on cream.....was off 5 months after doing it for years and was fine going from 267 test level to a 4...hmmmmm no issues until 4-5 weeks taking it by cream...only new issue, I never had was serious hair loss but was explained to me that the way it goes through the system is why I had an issue...back to the shots and sure all will be great again like the years I was injecting :32 (20):



I have gone back and forth between the cream and injections for my trt and I’ve always found injections to be a lot more stable (the cream always gave me a nice “pulse” from a libido perspective, though). What did the dr say was the difference in how it goes through your system?


----------



## jennerrator

dk8594 said:


> I have gone back and forth between the cream and injections for my trt and I’ve always found injections to be a lot more stable (the cream always gave me a nice “pulse” from a libido perspective, though). What did the dr say was the difference in how it goes through your system?



*Ok, I wanted to post proper wording but this is basically what he said....we of course didn't discuss everything else said in this...just hair shit LOL
*

*Gels and creams, like all transdermal delivery systems, provide a greater boost in DHT levels, compared to injectable testosterone preparations. As DHT is responsible for all the things of manhood. The transdermals are better at treating sexual dysfunction than are injectables. However, issues of hair loss (which I treat with a compounded topical DHT blocking mixture) and possible prostate morbidity (a contentiously debatable point, to be sure, but resolved in the negative to my mind) then come into play. This might be a good time to mention I vehemently oppose adding finasteride or similar medication.
*
_*To end the debate on this topic, transdermal T gels/creams are more likely to elevate estrogen than injections, as long as the shots are properly administered once per week. That is because aromatase lives in the skin, along with higher concentrations of 5-AR, which converts T to E. *_


----------



## Elivo

jennerrator50 said:


> *Ok, I wanted to post proper wording but this is basically what he said....we of course didn't discuss everything else said in this...just hair shit LOL
> *
> 
> *Gels and creams, like all transdermal delivery systems, provide a greater boost in DHT levels, compared to injectable testosterone preparations. As DHT is responsible for all the things of manhood. The transdermals are better at treating sexual dysfunction than are injectables. However, issues of hair loss (which I treat with a compounded topical DHT blocking mixture) and possible prostate morbidity (a contentiously debatable point, to be sure, but resolved in the negative to my mind) then come into play. This might be a good time to mention I vehemently oppose adding finasteride or similar medication.
> *
> _*To end the debate on this topic, transdermal T gels/creams are more likely to elevate estrogen than injections, as long as the shots are properly administered once per week. That is because aromatase lives in the skin, along with higher concentrations of 5-AR, which converts T to E. *_




That is very informative, glad i went with shots myself now as well. Nice write up Jenn


----------



## AnneC

THANK YOU!!! I'm so relieved, I was starting to think that my loss of libido was a pure unconscious mental block, now I do have more hopes that it's hormones related..
I had been using a test gel but I think at a too low dosage, cause my libido barely changed. 

Thank you so much for all this info, I'll try again straight away


----------



## jennerrator

If you have any questions..ask...and I’ll try to answer/help


----------



## jennerrator

Ok, hair stuff in and good to go...says what it is, how much it is medicine wise and instructions. I asked for results, they said of course everyone is different but no one has complained...wooo hoooo


----------



## jennerrator

Ok, so started the test cream 7/5 but I stopped taking it at the end of July sooooo...got test level today and a huge 14!!!!
Doesn't sound like much but sex drive is up and thats all I care about, now on the shots I’ll check it again:32 (20):


----------



## Elivo

Good deal Jenn!!


----------



## jennerrator

Soooooooooooooo...getting blood test this Friday from using the shots which has been awesome as they always were...maybe more than "14" lol...but actually feeling great!!


----------



## jennerrator

Ok....here is the results to my test results...now, let me say this first..taking only "50" a month and my level is high but I feel normal...when I was doing it on my own forever...I was  way different the way I felt and acted.....and the level was only "20" higher than it is now...go figure LOL...whatevs...I feel awesome and ok with the amount!

This was in August test (when using cream for about a month) 




This was last weeks draw


----------



## jennerrator

and for men with older women....just sharing...I feel awesome and way peaceful....life is good!!!

Estrogen level two weeks ago.....




Level now and he wants them both a tad higher..


----------



## Rumpy

How is your 50 a month dosed?  Are you doing 12.5mg of cyp once a week?  What's your Dr's target TT number?


----------



## Gadawg

Anyone else notice that Jenn drew a penis on that one page?  Hmmmm


----------



## jennerrator

Nope, 25mg every two weeks...he’s ok with the number as he says he’s mainly about how we feel!


----------



## jennerrator

Lol...that was the Dr’s office..perves...lmao


----------



## Elivo

Awesome that you’re feeling good!!!


----------



## jennerrator

Elivo said:


> Awesome that you’re feeling good!!!



Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm feeling fuuucking great...I swear now ...all...hormones back to a normal range and it's so awesome..I'm so peaceful, way less stressed about anything and happy as fuuuck..I really really wish all women would take advantage of feeling this unbelievably wonderful!


----------



## Gadawg

Great to hear Jenn!  Ive been sending pieces of this thread to my friend who is also a cancer survivor.  

She takes large doses of anti-E drugs bc her cancer was breast but her T is also very low and nobody has really tried to treat her that way. She went through such agressive chemo that she will have very very long lasting symptoms but I think this could change her life. 

Thanks for spreading the word about something most people have never even heard of.


----------



## jennerrator

Gadawg said:


> Great to hear Jenn!  Ive been sending pieces of this thread to my friend who is also a cancer survivor.
> 
> She takes large doses of anti-E drugs bc her cancer was breast but her T is also very low and nobody has really tried to treat her that way. She went through such agressive chemo that she will have very very long lasting symptoms but I think this could change her life.
> 
> Thanks for spreading the word about something most people have never even heard of.



Thank you! I truly appreciate that some of you guys appreciate this stuff on a dude board...lmao!! 

The major thing for me is I'm just about living the best life I can..I'm not afraid of things that a lot of women are....I know that tons won't use estrogen due to it can cause breast cancer and I get that especially if breast cancer is well know in your family!! But since it's not known in my family and even though I had my stuff...we get mammograms once a year just like other things that are covered by insurance....do them!!! 

Now, since she had breast cancer...I don't know if she could get a script for estrogen ever (I know nothing about that) but maybe other stuff...I hope!! 

Give her a hug for me if you see her!!!!


----------



## Gadawg

jennerrator said:


> Thank you! I truly appreciate that some of you guys appreciate this stuff on a dude board...lmao!!
> 
> The major thing for me is I'm just about living the best life I can..I'm not afraid of things that a lot of women are....I know that tons won't use estrogen due to it can cause breast cancer and I get that especially if breast cancer is well know in your family!! But since it's not known in my family and even though I had my stuff...we get mammograms once a year just like other things that are covered by insurance....do them!!!
> 
> Now, since she had breast cancer...I don't know if she could get a script for estrogen ever (I know nothing about that) but maybe other stuff...I hope!!
> 
> Give her a hug for me if you see her!!!!



No. She has to keep her estrogen near zero but with testosterone, she might be able to regain some sense of herself.


----------



## jennerrator

One thing I wanted to add.......

Once again, with the fact that everyone's body handles things different.....but...

I've also heard many women say they will not use hormones because of weight gain..........

I've been on all three through my doctor for months and I have not gained a pound!!!

Just saying....


----------



## BRICKS

jennerrator said:


> One thing I wanted to add.......
> 
> Once again, with the fact that everyone's body handles things different.....but...
> 
> I've also heard many women say they will not use hormones because of weight gain..........
> 
> I've been on all three through my doctor for months and I have not gained a pound!!!
> 
> Just saying....



That's because hormones don't make you gain weight, food does.  You can't gain if you're at or below maintenance calories.


----------



## jennerrator

BRICKS said:


> That's because hormones don't make you gain weight, food does.  You can't gain if you're at or below maintenance calories.



So, all the women that accuse the hormones for gaining weight...are overeating which is common sense...unfortunately many like to blame everything but themselves for gaining  weight! Sad.....


----------



## jennerrator

K, just wanted to post if anyone can use it for preference and dosage My current and I feel fuuucking awesome!!


----------



## jennerrator

Seeing Dr. tomorrow...bloods taken...will see where I'm at with hormones:32 (20):

Will post results vs. last results....EPT!!!!!


----------



## jennerrator

Ok, first I'll post my TRT....I tripped on the difference but I know there are reasons things fluctuate so I'm not shocked. AND I don't feel ANY different between the amounts. I know this has been discussed many times but I'm just confirming that I am not one that feels any different due to pinning every 2 weeks vs 1 week. 

*Started at - 5*

*August - 14 (Cream BS)

September - 224

Today


*


----------



## jennerrator

*Estradiol - He wants me to up it a tad


**August - <15**

September - 56**

Today**


*


----------



## jennerrator

*Progesterone


August - 3.3

September - 3.3


Today - he upped it after the first test

*


----------

