# Keto alternative?



## Straight30weight (Jun 19, 2018)

Spent the better part of last winter and the first 5 months of this year working on my bench (coming back from an injury). In doing so, my weight got out of control cuz all I could do was focus on a bench number and I just did what I felt I had to do to get it. Anyway, I found myself at 285 when I finally hit it and decided it was time to drop the weight. 6 weeks ago I jumped on a keto diet with intermittent fasting. So far I’ve lost 43lbs. 

Now, I really only know keto. I’ve sorted this way for years, but just to lean out some, never to lose this much weight. I find keto very easy, fasting is very easy. The weight is falling off. I just introduced 15 mins of cardio last week. I can ramp that up whenever the weight loss slows. But here’s the problem. I feel super flat, small, never a pump and of course all my lifts are garbage now. 

Im afraid I’m gonna come out of this with like no gains. I feel like I look super soft and flabby. Maybe I’m just being a little bitch but I don’t know. Any thoughts? I want to lean out a bunch then go back to lifting heavy again but try to keep the weight gain in check. I’ve got plenty of drive to hit my goals, I just don’t know that I’m attacking it the right way?


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## DJ21 (Jun 19, 2018)

What if you switch it up with paleo focused meals? That's what I do to help with strength and size, but i've been experimenting with the keto diet for over a year now.

Plus you've only done keto for 6 weeks, you need to let your body get use to the different source of energy, i.e. ketones.


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## Jin (Jun 19, 2018)

You can't have it all. 

Lost 43 pounds in 6 weeks? You're going to lose some strength. 

On keto? Your glycogen depleted. You're going to look flat. 

You want to lose weight then go back to gaining strength. Congratulations. You're doing it and it's working. 

You have nothing to complain about IMO.


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## Straight30weight (Jun 19, 2018)

Jin said:


> You can't have it all.
> 
> Lost 43 pounds in 6 weeks? You're going to lose some strength.
> 
> ...



Sounds like the voice of reason. Maybe really all I’m looking for is reassurance that it’s the right path. Or at least a decent one. I don’t mean to be comin off like I’m complaining, I just wanna make sure I’m doing the right things. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.


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## Straight30weight (Jun 19, 2018)

DJ21 said:


> What if you switch it up with paleo focused meals? That's what I do to help with strength and size, but i've been experimenting with the keto diet for over a year now.
> 
> Plus you've only done keto for 6 weeks, you need to let your body get use to the different source of energy, i.e. ketones.



its difficult to do a complete 180, you know? Eating all day, super low reps, no cardio. Then boom-complete flip flop. I’ll stay the course, thanks for your thoughts.


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## andy (Jun 19, 2018)

Try paleo ?


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## Viduus (Jun 19, 2018)

That’s a pretty fast drop. I’d say pause for a few weeks, eat carbs at maintenance and make sure you can get back to the bench numbers you want.

Then drop another forty and repeat. I agree with Jin, just protect what you built as you go along.


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## dk8594 (Jun 19, 2018)

I did a 12 month keto experience last year that included a bulking (calories surplus) and a cutting phase (calorie deficit). I can tell you from experience that I wasn't able to return to my baseline intensity, meaning really squeeze out reps, until I was almost 4 months in.  Up to then, I felt flat even when in a calorie surplus.

I'll also say that keto is not a magic bullet.  The initial weight loss is water and only real cutting benefit I found was the appetite suppression.  The rules of thermodynamics still apply; if you eat a surplus you'll gain weight, if you eat a deficit you'll lose weight.  The best diet is one that you can comply with for an appropriate duration.  It's up to you to figure out what that is.


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## Straight30weight (Jun 19, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> I did a 12 month keto experience last year that included a bulking (calories surplus) and a cutting phase (calorie deficit). I can tell you from experience that I wasn't able to return to my baseline intensity, meaning really squeeze out reps, until I was almost 4 months in.  Up to then, I felt flat even when in a calorie surplus.
> 
> I'll also say that keto is not a magic bullet.  The initial weight loss is water and only real cutting benefit I found was the appetite suppression.  The rules of thermodynamics still apply; if you eat a surplus you'll gain weight, if you eat a deficit you'll lose weight.  The best diet is one that you can comply with for an appropriate duration.  It's up to you to figure out what that is.



How did the bulk phase go while on keto? We’re you able to put on muscle without gaining much fat?


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## Yaya (Jun 19, 2018)

Lower ur carb intake and fats...works big


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## dk8594 (Jun 19, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> How did the bulk phase go while on keto? We’re you able to put on muscle without gaining much fat?



Here is the thread I made about my experience.

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/26122-12-Month-Ketogenic-Experiment

After the 4 months of lack luster intensity that I mentioned, I was able to make gains so long as I was in a calorie surplus.


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## Elivo (Jun 19, 2018)

Yaya said:


> Lower ur carb intake and fats...works big



This is what ive been doing, in a caloric deficit and has been working well, went from 260 to 225 as of today, not losing much in the way of strength, if anything im getting stronger, but ive also only been back in the gym full time for about 8-9 months so im still getting the "beginner gains"


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## Straight30weight (Jun 19, 2018)

Shit my strength is garbage. Maybe I’ll cut IF out of the equation and just go keto.


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## dk8594 (Jun 19, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> Shit my strength is garbage. Maybe I’ll cut IF out of the equation and just go keto.



Don't get hung up on strength if your goal is appearance.

Some of my greatest strides occurred once I was able to define what my goals were and define myself as a bodybuilder as opposed to a weight lifter.  The two aren't completely independent,  but once you make up your mind as to whether you are training for appearance or strength a lot of things will fall into place and a lot of the noise will get drowned out.


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## Straight30weight (Jun 19, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> Don't get hung up on strength if your goal is appearance.
> 
> Some of my greatest strides occurred once I was able to define what goals were define myself as a bodybuilder as opposed to a weight lifter.  The two aren't completely independent,  but once you make up your mind as to whether you are training for appearance or strength a lot of things will fall into place and a lot of the noise will get drowned out.


For now, appearance. I train hard, I should somewhat look like it!


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## jennerrator (Jun 19, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> For now, appearance. I train hard, I should somewhat look like it!




Its a lifestyle...all of it takes time...the way it is


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## dk8594 (Jun 20, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> For now, appearance. I train hard, I should somewhat look like it!



Just have realistic expectations and don’t be too hard on yourself.  I look the same day by day and even week by week. It’s not til I look at the changes from month to month and year to year that I can really see the fruits of my labor.  It’s a journey not a sprint.  Just get going. Be consistent. Be patient.


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## MS1605 (Jun 20, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> Shit my strength is garbage. Maybe I’ll cut IF out of the equation and just go keto.



Jin already slapped you with the cock of truth. Your doing great for exactly what your goal is. Just as he said, you cant have it all. If ur dropping bodyfat like a boss, something is going to give and thats strength. 

Here is my opinion considering I do bothe keto and IF. 

Suck it up, swallow your pride and get down to the bf % you want. Make sure you stick with the keto and IF REALLY hard. While you are losing all the weight, your body is going to learn how to get fat adapted and switch over to burning those ketones efficiently. After you get down to the Bf% you like, I suggest trying to break your fast right after a workout. I do OMAD but if you can tske it, a 20/4 fast is amazing. If you go 20 hours fasted then have a good weight training session, break your fast with something to spike that insulin and have a really nutritious meal that is going to feed those muscles after the heavy workout. Then 2-3 hours later have your second/last meal and make it all keto. The last keto meal should make sure you are getting into ketosis and maintaining that BF% you worked for.

I have played around with my routine and got it so that after a mega carb meal outlined above, 3 hours later I was back into ketosis. Its like the best of both world. You get that ketosis to keep burning the fat but also the carbs right after your big work out.


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## Yaya (Jun 20, 2018)

Bill Phillips
Body for life


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## Straight30weight (Jun 20, 2018)

MS1605 said:


> Jin already slapped you with the cock of truth. Your doing great for exactly what your goal is. Just as he said, you cant have it all. If ur dropping bodyfat like a boss, something is going to give and thats strength.
> 
> Here is my opinion considering I do bothe keto and IF.
> 
> ...



I do a 22/2 fast on Monday’s and occasionally I do it on Tuesday as well. I find fasting to be really easy, I take a big shot of olive oil and I’m good for the day. I have shit tons of energy, I believe it’s because I keep my fat intake high. My cals are far below maintenance, which is why the weight is falling off. My fear is losing muscle, or lots of muscle. But I’ll stay at it until I get where I feel I should BF% wise. It’ll be a while!!


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## DJ21 (Jun 26, 2018)

Straight30weight said:


> its difficult to do a complete 180, you know? Eating all day, super low reps, no cardio. Then boom-complete flip flop. I’ll stay the course, thanks for your thoughts.



100% agree, but change is inevitable, embrace it. Keep logging your journey and figure out what works for you.

Also something else to look into is 'Ketosis Mimicking Diet' here's a good video on it which goes into the specific foods, then you can switch back to a diet higher in carbs (i.e. paleo for strength.


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## Rage Strength (Jun 30, 2018)

Could be possible your cortisol is so high at this point, you may benefit from carb cycling a few days a week to diminish that effect. Those few days of carbs will spike your natural thyroid levels as well blunt cortisol effects.


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## Straight30weight (Jun 30, 2018)

Rage Strength said:


> Could be possible your cortisol is so high at this point, you may benefit from carb cycling a few days a week to diminish that effect. Those few days of carbs will spike your natural thyroid levels as well blunt cortisol effects.


I guess I never mentioned it but I have been doing more of a ckd, I eat carbs one day a week. I may do some trials with a second day to see what the effects are. 

Im at the end of week 8 and I’m down 50lbs. I’d like to get to 220 and try to maintain that weight while still getting my bf% low. After the bf% comes together, I’m going to experiment with trying to get my strength up while still on keto.


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