# Ditching whey powder



## Itburnstopee (Jul 20, 2015)

How many of you guys get your full protein intake purely from whole foods, and how much is that? I'm about to stock up on tuna and beans because I don't want to keep buying/eating whey powder. Brown rice, potatoes, tuna, chicken, salmon, beans, red meats, oatmeal. That's what most of my diet is/will be (my favorite foods).


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## McDuffy (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm doing the same thing. today i bought 4 lbs of 93% beef, 12 lbs chicken breat, 10 lbs potatos, 5 lbs sweet potatoes. trying to plan things out now


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## Seeker (Jul 20, 2015)

I have one whey protein shake per day. That's only because I enjoy having one,  not because I'm using it  to replace any meals. I like making them taste lIke slushies.  Nice cold shake, especially now in the summer. I eat over 400 grams of protein per day! I cook all the dam time. You've got some good food choices there.


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## SFGiants (Jul 20, 2015)

ItBurnsToPee said:


> How many of you guys get your full protein intake purely from whole foods, and how much is that? I'm about to stock up on tuna and beans because I don't want to keep buying/eating whey powder. Brown rice, potatoes, tuna, chicken, salmon, beans, red meats, oatmeal. That's what most of my diet is/will be (my favorite foods).



Usually fat or skinny people drink that crap!

I know huge people some very successful in Powerlifting some bodybuilding some in both that swear this x amount of protein a day is bull shit and eat whole foods no shakes.

If your small your NOT going to get big eating CLEAN.


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 20, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> If your small your NOT going to get big eating CLEAN.



Not sure what you mean. If you're saying I have to eat in a surplus to make any gains at first then rest assured because I've been trying. Although it's hard for me to just get in my maintenance.

Edit: just realized what you mean. Let me ask you this, what if you were small but had a bit of fat from not eating enough after a big cut- skinny fat with some small muscle definition? Should I just eat everything to put the mass/strength on fast and get a little chubby? I'm at the point where I don't give a shit if I gain fat because I can always just cut


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## bvs (Jul 20, 2015)

i only drink protein shakes and diet coke


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## SFGiants (Jul 20, 2015)

ItBurnsToPee said:


> Not sure what you mean. If you're saying I have to eat in a surplus to make any gains at first then rest assured because I've been trying. Although it's hard for me to just get in my maintenance.
> 
> Edit: just realized what you mean. Let me ask you this, what if you were small but had a bit of fat from not eating enough after a big cut- skinny fat with some small muscle definition? Should I just eat everything to put the mass/strength on fast and get a little chubby? I'm at the point where I don't give a shit if I gain fat because I can always just cut



You can keep some what clean meals in all day but will have to add calories, you can add 300 plus calories just from a snickers bar.

Eating dirty don't mean eat like utter shit, be smart about it that's all.


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 20, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> You can keep some what clean meals in all day but will have to add calories, you can add 300 plus calories just from a snickers bar.
> 
> Eating dirty don't mean eat like utter shit, be smart about it that's all.



Oh lol I know that, what I don't know is is there a best macro to increase? If I'm gonna get an extra 300 cals do I want that to be protein or carbs or fat because I can easily eat a huge bowl of rice or have some peanut butter whereas 300 cals of protein is a lot of food for me/inconvenient


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## Magical (Jul 20, 2015)

bvs said:


> i only drink protein shakes and diet coke



Thats all you need! You are on your way to the top lol


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 20, 2015)

ItBurnsToPee said:


> Not sure what you mean. If you're saying I have to eat in a surplus to make any gains at first then rest assured because I've been trying. Although it's hard for me to just get in my maintenance.
> 
> Edit: just realized what you mean. Let me ask you this, what if you were small but had a bit of fat from not eating enough after a big cut- skinny fat with some small muscle definition? Should I just eat everything to put the mass/strength on fast and get a little chubby? I'm at the point where I don't give a shit if I gain fat because I can always just cut


Just my opinion here but I think that for someone who hasn't quite figured out what macros work best for them, their best bet is to stop the cycle of bulking and cutting every year.

Just bulk for a few years straight.  Don't go crazy with calories, just keep the scale moving at no more than 1 pound per week.

After you have put on some real size then hire someone to do your diet and drop some fat off.  This way you won't end up skinny fat looking.


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## LeanHerm (Jul 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Just my opinion here but I think that for someone who hasn't quite figured out what macros work best for them, their best bet is to stop the cycle of bulking and cutting every year.
> 
> Just bulk for a few years straight.  Don't go crazy with calories, just keep the scale moving at no more than 1 pound per week.
> 
> After you have put on some real size then hire someone to do your diet and drop some fat off.  This way you won't end up skinny fat looking.


this. I did this and I'm very happy with results. I was pretty fat though and don't get to fat like me


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 20, 2015)

MeanHerm said:


> this. I did this and I'm very happy with results. I was pretty fat though and don't get to fat like me



HOW MANY HERM ACCOUNTS ARE THERE?! This is like the 3rd I've seen


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Just my opinion here but I think that for someone who hasn't quite figured out what macros work best for them, their best bet is to stop the cycle of bulking and cutting every year.
> 
> Just bulk for a few years straight.  Don't go crazy with calories, just keep the scale moving at no more than 1 pound per week.
> 
> After you have put on some real size then hire someone to do your diet and drop some fat off.  This way you won't end up skinny fat looking.



I'm gonna do this. That way I can find my best macros and put on size... And eat


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 20, 2015)

ItBurnsToPee said:


> I'm gonna do this. That way I can find my best macros and put on size... And eat



The other part of the equation is training. Too much isolation, not enough intensity or volume won't force the body to adapt and use all those calories.  What does your training week look like.  Type it out

Exercise name x sets x reps and weight


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## Cobra Strike (Jul 20, 2015)

Macro order of importance to bulk...listed from greatest to least: Carbs/protien/fat. Fat should always be pretty low


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> The other part of the equation is training. Too much isolation, not enough intensity or volume won't force the body to adapt and use all those calories.  What does your training week look like.  Type it out
> 
> Exercise name x sets x reps and weight



Right know I'm not training legs because my doc wants me to let my knee heal after surgery until the end of August (which ****ing sucks)

So I temporarily changed it to a three day upper body routine
Monday/ hypertrophy:
Bench 3x10x125
Dumbbell flat bench 3x8x30-35
Dumbbell incline bench 2x8x30
Overhead press 2x6x85 superset with pull-ups 2x6
Rows 4x10x95
Curls 2x6x25 superset with 2x6x15

Wednesday/heavy-5lbs added each week:
Bench Press 3x6x145
Rows 3x6x145                                              Overhead press 1x6x95
Pull-ups 2x6
Leg raises or weighted crunches 3x10

Friday/hypertrophy:
Same as Monday

I'm also dealing with winged scapulas

My regular routine is a variation of Jonnie Canditos strength/hypertrophy program. Some numbers are missing because I have to work those out when I'm able to do lower body again.

Monday/Heavy lower body:
Leg press ----
Deadlift 2x6x155
Rack pull deadlift 2x5x----
Calf raise 5x15

Tuesday/Heavy upper body:
Bench 3x6x145
Row 3x6x145
Overhead press 1x6x95
Leg raises 3x10

Thursday/Hyper trophy lower body:
Leg press ----
Deadlift 3x8x115
Romanian deadlift 2x5x115
Calf raise 5x15x135

Friday/Hypertrophy upper body:
Bench 3x10x125
Dumbbell flat bench 3x8x30-35
Dumbbell incline bench 2x8x30
Overhead press 2x6x85 superset with pull-ups 2x6
Rows 4x10x95
Curls 2x6x25 superset with 2x6x15


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## snake (Jul 20, 2015)

Cobra Strike said:


> Macro order of importance to bulk...listed from greatest to least: Carbs/protien/fat. Fat should always be pretty low



I have to agree with this.

As for the protein shakes, I take one in the morning to grab 30 grams. I just can't knock down other forms of protein in the morning.


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## trodizzle (Jul 20, 2015)

ItBurnsToPee said:


> How many of you guys get your full protein intake purely from whole foods, and how much is that? I'm about to stock up on tuna and beans because I don't want to keep buying/eating whey powder. Brown rice, potatoes, tuna, chicken, salmon, beans, red meats, oatmeal. That's what most of my diet is/will be (my favorite foods).



I use a combination of powders and real foods to meet my goals. I like to keep all tools available to me for use as needed.


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## McDuffy (Jul 20, 2015)

I don't drink protein shakes anymore, I drink pasteurized egg whites. 1 liter has 100g protein. I drink 33g egg white protein in the morning with my oat meal. 

Also I just did a bulk where I went with the dirty bulk approach and now I don't believe in it. A bulk means surplus of calories. If you do what I did and eat at 5 guys everyday it doesn't matter how hard you train, you will get fat and not build more muscle than would be built from a clean surplus of calories.


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## MrRippedZilla (Jul 20, 2015)

IMO your routine is really imbalanced.

For example, why do you have 4 pushing exercises for every 2 pulling? The only back moves I see are pull ups and rows. In general, it should really be the other way around since the back contains more muscle groups and needs much more work compared to chest. 
I also don't see any rear or medial delt work - lateral raises, etc - and this can lea to shoulder issues due to your front delts being too dominant compared to the rest.  

If you don't address these issues, your going to end up with shoulder injuries and a weak back = lots of time off from the gym in the future.


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 20, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> IMO your routine is really imbalanced.
> 
> For example, why do you have 4 pushing exercises for every 2 pulling? The only back moves I see are pull ups and rows. In general, it should really be the other way around since the back contains more muscle groups and needs much more work compared to chest.
> I also don't see any rear or medial delt work - lateral raises, etc - and this can lea to shoulder issues due to your front delts being too dominant compared to the rest.
> ...



Should I replace Friday to a more back oriented day? Maybe hit chest once and the rest all out to my back. I'm thinking this:
Dumbbell press (flat)
Good mornings
Rows
Pull ups
Tbar rows
Lateral raises
Shrugs

Will this also help with my winged scapula?


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## Cobra Strike (Jul 20, 2015)

When your eating 5k and up cals a day...one protien shake with some carbs is a huge difference...gotta save what room you can


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## gymrat827 (Jul 20, 2015)

McDuffy said:


> I don't drink protein shakes anymore, I drink pasteurized egg whites. 1 liter has 100g protein. I drink 33g egg white protein in the morning with my oat meal.
> 
> Also I just did a bulk where I went with the dirty bulk approach and now I don't believe in it. A bulk means surplus of calories. If you do what I did and eat at 5 guys everyday it doesn't matter how hard you train, you will get fat and not build more muscle than would be built from a clean surplus of calories.



I was going to say....


my shakes are 60/40 whey to liquid egg white.


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## Shane1974 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah...I don't drink shakes anymore. Don't take vitamins, BCAAs, fish oil, OR creatine. I use food, weights, and AAS. When I quit giving all  my money to GNC, I got big as ****.


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## transcend2007 (Jul 20, 2015)

Anyone working on adding mass over years has done both.  I believe people place too much emphasis on how (raw food - supps - shakes) and too little empahsis on what ~ proper macros and total calories over time.  Although its not rock science getting results comes down training consistently (DONT MISS WORKOUTS), nutrition (not some of time but for weeks and months with discipline), and get  8 hour of sleep.

The truth is people miss workouts like 2 or more days a month, eat right less than 50% of the time, and dont get 8 hours or sleep to fully recover.

My point OP is whether you're eating raw food or shakes......if you're missing workouts and not eating right 95% of the time, or getting your proper rest like most guys you may be better of getting the larger picture together first then work on minor details later.


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## NbleSavage (Jul 20, 2015)

bvs said:


> i only drink protein shakes and diet coke



You need pro genetics in order to make this diet work.


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## Dex (Jul 20, 2015)

You can't skip the morning black bean shake.


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## GSgator (Jul 21, 2015)

I get most of my proteins from whole foods and I like to stay all organic if I can. I do drink 2 shakes a day and it's not included to meet my macros I like a isolate protein when I wake up from a fasting State and I like to also get in a fast acting protein Post workout I do combine whole foods with these for example. My morning smoothie weekdays before work I do 6 egg whites and 1.5 cups of fat free yogurt with 50 grams of protein I also add in the fruits and  glutamine. I just feel I need a very fast Absorbing protein during those times of day.


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## GSgator (Jul 21, 2015)

transcend2007 said:


> Anyone working on adding mass over years has done both.  I believe people place too much emphasis on how (raw food - supps - shakes) and too little empahsis on what ~ proper macros and total calories over time.  Although its not rock science getting results comes down training consistently (DONT MISS WORKOUTS), nutrition (not some of time but for weeks and months with discipline), and get  8 hour of sleep.
> 
> The truth is people miss workouts like 2 or more days a month, eat right less than 50% of the time, and dont get 8 hours or sleep to fully recover.
> 
> My point OP is whether you're eating raw food or shakes......if you're missing workouts and not eating right 95% of the time, or getting your proper rest like most guys you may be better of getting the larger picture together first then work on minor details later.


This is so true and on point. You are also making me feel bad I'm skipping tonight's back,shoulder workout to hit the lake with the wife and her hot friends DAMMIT summers are so tough for me to stay consistent lol.


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## Magical (Jul 21, 2015)

Dex said:


> You can't skip the morning black bean shake.



You and them black bean shakes lol


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 21, 2015)

Dex said:


> You can't skip the morning black bean shake.



I had black bean brownies once. I don't eat black beans anymore


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## Magical (Jul 21, 2015)

ItBurnsToPee said:


> I had black bean brownies once. I don't eat black beans anymore



I like black beans in southwestern egg rolls. Them shits are great


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## transcend2007 (Jul 21, 2015)

GSgator said:


> This is so true and on point. You are also making me feel bad I'm skipping tonight's back,shoulder workout to hit the lake with the wife and her hot friends DAMMIT summers are so tough for me to stay consistent lol.



It happens to us all.  The point is to be aware and manage the overall most important aspects.  This is why keeping a work-out log, diet journal, and measuring these things over time really matters.  Working out 95%+ of your scheduled sessions and eating right 90%+ will make a HUGE difference in your gains.  And it takes discipline to do it.


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## SFGiants (Jul 21, 2015)

Cobra Strike said:


> When your eating 5k and up cals a day...one protien shake with some carbs is a huge difference...gotta save what room you can



This is true but most don't get close to 3000 with that clean eating mentality and is why they don't gain or get passed 180lb.


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## MrRippedZilla (Jul 21, 2015)

ItBurnsToPee said:


> Should I replace Friday to a more back oriented day? Maybe hit chest once and the rest all out to my back. I'm thinking this:
> Dumbbell press (flat)
> Good mornings
> Rows
> ...



I prefer back extensions to good mornings but apart from that the exercise selection and overall split looks much better.

As for the winged scapula, depending on the severity I'd recommend first seeing a physio to get it looked at properly. 
In terms of movements that MAY help - push up plus for the serratus anterior (youtube it), cable rows & incline lateral raise come to mind. You should also be aware that OHP tends to make things much worse so it might be worth sticking to lateral raises until you get it checked out.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 21, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I prefer back extensions to good mornings but apart from that the exercise selection and overall split looks much better.
> 
> As for the winged scapula, depending on the severity I'd recommend first seeing a physio to get it looked at properly.
> In terms of movements that MAY help - push up plus for the serratus anterior (youtube it), cable rows & incline lateral raise come to mind. You should also be aware that OHP tends to make things much worse so it might be worth sticking to lateral raises until you get it checked out.


I would second his suggestion of getting a physio to examine the winged scap.  There are a lot of causes from the serratus anterior to nerve damage.


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 21, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I prefer back extensions to good mornings but apart from that the exercise selection and overall split looks much better.
> 
> As for the winged scapula, depending on the severity I'd recommend first seeing a physio to get it looked at properly.
> In terms of movements that MAY help - push up plus for the serratus anterior (youtube it), cable rows & incline lateral raise come to mind. You should also be aware that OHP tends to make things much worse so it might be worth sticking to lateral raises until you get it checked out.



Just replaced all over head press with lateral raises in my routine. I'm already doing the push up plus and also a few stretches. Thanks zilla


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