# Thinking of starting a new cycle but need advice first.



## GymRat79 (Oct 22, 2021)

So since I want to start competing again (Mens Physique) and go up against better competition in more competitive shows, explain PCT to me and what it entails for a mild 12 week cycle of Test and possibly adding another compound that works well paired with that. Any recommendations on which compound would be the safest and get the job done? Since I'm competing I don't want to be wasting my time and want to feel confident I'm doing it the right way. Thank you to all who respond to lead me in the right direction as I appreciate it.

I'll be taking in roughly around 400-500 mg per week to start. Then after the first cycle I'll begin PCT and reevaluate.

Is it even necessary to add anything else in with Testosterone? And on top of that is it even necessary to add in Arimidex during a mild cycle of only 400-500 mg per week?  Let me know, thank you.


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## TomJ (Oct 22, 2021)

First Cycle: All You Need to Know
					

Here is what I think is a good starter cycle for just about anyone. Please feel free to add to this or comment as you wish. This is an open forum for educated members so I'd like your feedback. These are my own words, not taken from anywhere, so feel free to comment away.  *Note - If this is...



					www.ugbodybuilding.com
				



Heres a good starting point.

In simplistic terms a pct will ideally consist of;
HCG
Nolvadex and/or Clomid

There are a ton of resources outlining different PCT protocols and theres a good bit of difference in opinion, but at its core itll be HCG+SERMs (SERMs or selective estrogen receptor modulators are Nolva and Clomid)



GymRat79 said:


> Is it even necessary to add anything else in with Testosterone? And on top of that is it even necessary to add in Arimidex during a mild cycle of only 400-500 mg per week? Let me know, thank you.



test on its own for a first cycle will already be an intense improvement, you dont need to add in anything else. As for the AI thats a highly personal question, some people like dosing proactively for an easy method, some people dose based on side effects, some people dose based on bloodwork. 

 you might not need it at all, its different for everyone. 

there is also Aromasin, which is another AI available that is a little easier in how it works. 

Some of the more knowledgeable guys could explain this process better from a pharmokinetics standpoint, but the basics are Adex only holds on the estrogen, and will release it when you stop taking it or if you miss a dose, causing a estrogen rebound that can cause a lot of high est sides. Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor that eliminated the hormone, so there is no rebound. Logically this makes aromasin a better choice if you are dosing based on sides, but can really crash your estrogen if you take too much.


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## TomJ (Oct 22, 2021)

Personally, I barely need an AI on 500 a week. Completely managable without an AI, just some minor breakouts, but a small dose of asin e3d keeps that in chack and keeps me feeling good. 

asin should be an eod thing, but i cant split my pills any further to get a good dose eod.


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## silentlemon1011 (Oct 22, 2021)

GymRat79 said:


> So since I want to start competing again (Mens Physique) and go up against better competition in more competitive shows, explain PCT to me and what it entails for a mild 12 week cycle of Test and possibly adding another compound that works well paired with that. Any recommendations on which compound would be the safest and get the job done? Since I'm competing I don't want to be wasting my time and want to feel confident I'm doing it the right way. Thank you to all who respond to lead me in the right direction as I appreciate it.
> 
> I'll be taking in roughly around 400-500 mg per week to start. Then after the first cycle I'll begin PCT and reevaluate.
> 
> Is it even necessary to add anything else in with Testosterone? And on top of that is it even necessary to add in Arimidex during a mild cycle of only 400-500 mg per week?  Let me know, thank you.



@TomJ covered most of it
But I'd like to just add onto the Aromatase inhibitor portion.

The only possible way to tell if you need AI is via e2 bloodwork
On 500mg T, I need 12.5mg Aromasin 2x a week

My older brother... needs 0 Aromasin 0 Times a week on the same Testosterone dosage.

Despite being so genetically similar... we are unbelievably different for response and AI dosage, this truly showcases the individuality of using Aromatase inhibitors

Depending on your Ester of choice, wait until your exogenous hormones have reached proper "Saturation" (IE, 4ish weeks for something like Test)
Get E2 bloods and start to dial in your requirements.

Even then, doesnt get TOO much simpler
As an experiment 
I tried to short term crash my e2 when I had a gyno flare up a while back, as opposed to just hitting some.quick Nolva and following up with Ralox
So I hit up 12.5mg Aromasin 7 days a week (Yes I'm an idiot, but inlike to experiment)
Even after 2 weeks I hadnt fully crashed.

So in summary, you will even respond differently to the AI!!! in the same context as your reaction to the actual hormones you're pinning


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## TomJ (Oct 22, 2021)

For reference my e2 on no AI is like 135. e2 that high for some people is completely unbearable. so just be cautious. 

Do bloodwork to find your baseline, but just keep in mind everyone's different. Be carefull of certain protocols saying to hit a specific number.


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## GymRat79 (Oct 22, 2021)

And isn't it true that it is extrmely unlikely and next to impossible to even have any noticeable gyno after a first time mild cycle of Test only?


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## CJ (Oct 22, 2021)

GymRat79 said:


> And isn't it true that it is extrmely unlikely and next to impossible to even have any noticeable gyno after a first time mild cycle of Test only?


Not true at all.

It's entirely possible.


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## GymRat79 (Oct 22, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Not true at all.
> 
> It's entirely possible.


But to what extreme? I understand there may be some puffiness but can a man grow "Man Boobs" after a first cycle if they are not taking the right precautions? Have you ever seen this first hand with anyone you know?


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## TomJ (Oct 22, 2021)

GymRat79 said:


> But to what extreme? I understand there may be some puffiness but can a man grow "Man Boobs" after a first cycle if they are not taking the right precautions? Have you ever seen this first hand with anyone you know?



youre not going to be waving your tits around on the vegas strip after one cycle, no. 

but the tissue can form very quickly and is a pain to get rid of. the idea is to avoid it entirely.


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## GymRat79 (Oct 22, 2021)

TomJ said:


> youre not going to be waving your tits around on the vegas strip after one cycle, no.
> 
> but the tissue can form very quickly and is a pain to get rid of. the idea is to avoid it entirely.


Yes unfortunately a friend of mine who recently got their IFBB card had to have surgery for GYNO. He did everything properly but since he was taking so much gear over the years well it eventually caught up to him. I imagine its not uncommon for this to happen to others as well.


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## CJ (Oct 22, 2021)

GymRat79 said:


> But to what extreme? I understand there may be some puffiness but can a man grow "Man Boobs" after a first cycle if they are not taking the right precautions? Have you ever seen this first hand with anyone you know?


Nobody can say for sure, so just get some Adex or Aromasin just in case. Think of it as an insurance policy, you're happy that you have it when you need it.

Also, it's not uncommon for competitors to take an AI the last week or so to drive down their estrogen, and dry out even further.


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## dirtys1x (Oct 23, 2021)

As others have mentioned. The only way to tell how you respond to estrogen is through blood work. Obviously, physical symptoms arise, but it’s better to not experience those. Getting pre-mid-postpct cycle blood work is amazing. Especially on your first cycle. You’ll know where your baseline test is at. You’ll find out how much you aromatize mid cycle, and then lastly, you’ll know if your PCT regimen was affective. Once you know all of those, especially where your estrogen is mid cycle, you’ll be able to modulate your own AI regimen. Who knows, you may find out you don’t even need an AI at 500 mg weekly. Or you find out that you do and then start a regimen and get some follow up blood work to confirm. Ideally, you want to be in a situation where you take the least amount of AI while keeping your estrogen in normal healthy ranges.

Once you know how your body responds to test, you’ll be able to get bloods done less frequently. If you’re using the same gear, you’ll just be able to modulate dosages of AI based on how much test you’re taking.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 23, 2021)

TomJ said:


> For reference my e2 on no AI is like 135. e2 that high for some people is completely unbearable. so just be cautious.
> 
> Do bloodwork to find your baseline, but just keep in mind everyone's different. Be carefull of certain protocols saying to hit a specific number.


Even if u have no sides you don’t want high estrogen for long periods of time


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## lasttren (Nov 4, 2021)

TomJ said:


> Personally, I barely need an AI on 500 a week. Completely managable without an AI, just some minor breakouts, but a small dose of asin e3d keeps that in chack and keeps me feeling good.
> 
> asin should be an eod thing, but i cant split my pills any further to get a good dose eod.


Man i'm jelous that you don't need an ai on 500mg. I need letro x3 times a week.


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## cavorite (Nov 13, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Even if u have no sides you don’t want high estrogen for long periods of time


what’s the reason for that?


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## Bro Bundy (Nov 13, 2021)

cavorite said:


> what’s the reason for that?


High estrogen had its own issues like growing tits or your little dick won’t work


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