# adding clen to a test/mast cycle



## Yaya (Sep 29, 2012)

Currently on a test/mast/var cycle....ending the var next week and wondering if i can add some clen when done with var?

Gaining great mass but gonna diet hard next few weeks before my vaca.. Ive done clen in the past but only solo.. Actually ran it years ago.


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## DJ21 (Sep 29, 2012)

Shit man, good luck, clen is brutal with the cramps. I wouldn't advise using it with a cycle. But that's just me..


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## PillarofBalance (Sep 29, 2012)

Stack it with T3 and keep the dose down. Safer that way IMO. I've ran 50mcg t3 and 80mcg Clen with good success.


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## Jada (Sep 29, 2012)

yayA wouldn't the Clen Take away some of ur gains.


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## PillarofBalance (Sep 29, 2012)

Clen reportedly has some very mild anabolic, or at least muscle sparing effects.  He wouldn't lose any gains. Some people think T3 will "eat muscle" but in my experience with it that's overstated.


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## Yaya (Sep 29, 2012)

I will start low


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## Cobra Strike (Sep 29, 2012)

Imo clen is highly over rated....not to mention its negative effects on the cardiovascular system. Bottom line...if you think you need clen what you really need to do is adjust your diet to match your goals. Diet and cardio is far more beneficial then clen hands down.


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## 69nites (Sep 29, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Imo clen is highly over rated....not to mention its negative effects on the cardiovascular system. Bottom line...if you think you need clen what you really need to do is adjust your diet to match your goals. Diet and cardio is far more beneficial then clen hands down.


IME adding clen to good diet and cardio will double the speed of results.  

That's like saying testosterone is overrated and that diet and training is where its at.

They are all tools. Diet and training are the base. Drugs are the gravy.


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## Cobra Strike (Sep 29, 2012)

69nites said:


> IME adding clen to good diet and cardio will double the speed of results.
> 
> That's like saying testosterone is overrated and that diet and training is where its at.
> 
> They are all tools. Diet and training are the base. Drugs are the gravy.



You are entitled to your opinion

But it's not like saying test is over rated at all... tetestosterone is beneficial to your health....clen is not. 

I'm saying clen is overrated because it's negative effects on your health and because it doesn't work near as good as everyone says it does  if it did everyone would be using it and anabolic dealers would carry it. But again...these are my opinions. You don't always need drugs to get you where you want to go


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## 69nites (Sep 29, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> You are entitled to your opinion
> 
> But it's not like saying test is over rated at all... tetestosterone is beneficial to your health....clen is not.
> 
> I'm saying clen is overrated because it's negative effects on your health and because it doesn't work near as good as everyone says it does  if it did everyone would be using it and anabolic dealers would carry it. But again...these are my opinions. You don't always need drugs to get you where you want to go


Clen is a PED. It goes way beyond helping you lose weight. Athletes are caught using the shit all the time. I used to use it for mtb races myself. Still use it for boxing.

If you want to talk about bad for your heart just cut out everything that fucks your lipids. That's where the real long term danger is.

99% of the guys on the boards wouldn't need any drugs to get where they are.


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## Cobra Strike (Sep 29, 2012)

That is correct to a point 69 and I appreciate your disagreements. However, messed up lipids is a long term issue....you don't see problems will cholesterol in 6 months of having them fucked up. They go back to normal once you stop the use of the more harsh products. Besides, I can control my lipid profile while on cycle through the use of diet and vitamins. 

I've done research on clen after my first time using it and I wrote a small paper on it for my pharmacology class a while back when I was stIll In college....Just a little info I know about clen that I will share ...which is not to say clen is the devil, but is to say that these things are a very real possibility.  

Clens cardiovascular effects has been known to increase the size of heart muscle cells....This is primarily due to increasing the amount of an inelastic substance we all know as collagen. Collagen is a type of inelastic material thst reduces the hearts effectiveness at pumping blood which in return reduces its output of blood.... collagen also interferes with the electric signals sent through the hearts muscle cells to keep it pumping regularly and this may produce arrhythmias aka an irregular heart beat..... and arrhythmias increase the risk of strokes.....It's also been noted that in studies on rodents clen induced heart cell degeneration...clen canalso negatively affect the hearts structural size and possibly cause aortic enlargement after exercise such as aortuc enlargement...aortic enlargement increases the risk of aortic rupture and sudden death (again I'm not saying this will occur)........anyone using clen may exacerbate any pre existing heart condition or blood pressure problems....and remember that all gear already causes blood pressures to rise....

It is also thought that left sided cardiac atrophy (wasting away of the left side of the heart) can happen quickly (possibly as little as four weeks when taken in high doses).....clen is  also known to increase bone fragility.... greater muscle mass in combination with greater fragility of bone increases the risk of bone fractures (this is stretching it but is part of what I studied).

When It all comes down to It, the degree of damage that clen can cause on any given persons body is unknown...

And guys despite the fact that the list of potential side effects caused by clen is long there is one side effect that is probably of most interest to the guys wanting to lose weight.....studies have shown in the long term clen is known to suddenly lose its efficacy and cause rapid weight gain which is possibly due to the effects it has had on a persons metabolism.........there are many variables here of course and I've never personally heard of anyone having these issues before but that's not to say they are not real....for me to be able to get where I want to be at with just diet and cardio and avoid all the above shit is the smarter choice Imo. I leave the drugs that I feel have more negatives then positives to the guys that get paid to do this shit... pre competition/athletes....cause face it...how many of us get paid to fuck ourselves up?

Food for thought...we are all adults here and make our own decIsIons


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## Cobra Strike (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm not even gonna start on t3 pob lol but I will say that I'm even more so against guys using that then clen...I personally know a few guys that now enjoy a fucked up thyroid....maybe this all has something to do with what I do...I'm a little more careful now...or older...who knows ;-)


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## 69nites (Sep 29, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> I'm not even gonna start on t3 pob lol but I will say that I'm even more so against guys using that then clen...I personally know a few guys that now enjoy a fucked up thyroid....maybe this all has something to do with what I do...I'm a little more careful now...or older...who knows ;-)


I'm on thyroid meds for life anyway lol.

There are things I'm more worried about than clen enlarging my heart. How many guys run eq and don't even give blood. Thick blood will enlarge your heart as fast as anything. 

The hardening of heart tissue is a legitimate concern. I guess I don't mind living a little dangerous since I like the way I feel and perform on it.


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## Cobra Strike (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm not a fan of eq either lol wow turns out I hate steroids I guess haha

What you on thyroid meds for 69 if you don't mind me asking?


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## SuperBane (Sep 29, 2012)

Cobra that was very interesting piece on clen. I've been thinking about dancing with clen or albuteral. I am now dosing ephedrine at 12.5 with 200mg C not full dosage clearly. After a bit of reading I ruled out albuteral and think clen would be a bit much for my tastes BEFORE reading what you posted.

Id like to hear what you have to say about ECA as well as T3/T4


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## SuperBane (Sep 29, 2012)

3,3'-Diiodo-L-Thyronine


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## Cobra Strike (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm not a fan of eq either lol wow turns out I hate steroids I guess haha

What you on thyroid meds for 69 if you don't mind me asking?


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## Jawey (Sep 29, 2012)

Interesting read on the clen Cobra, Thanks for that.


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## 63Vette (Sep 29, 2012)

From what i recall,, 69 takes T4. His thyroid is basically non/low functioning. We had a very long and detailed discussion about clen and t2, t3, t4....

OP:

Start VERY low. Some people just flat out cannot handle even a 20mcg dose. I would not stack it the first time. If you do stack it keep your doses low and be patient. Remember if your diet isn't spot on whatever you lose in fat will come right back so first make sure your diet is spot on.

I am not trying g to scare you at all but of all the gear and ancillaries I use, I have seen clen and clen stacks send more people to the ER than anyone else. Start low... 20mcg in the morning ... know what the effects are in advance and if you do cardio, monitor your heart rate while performing on clen.

Best of luck, life is a marathon not a sprint.
Vette


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## 69nites (Sep 29, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> I'm not a fan of eq either lol wow turns out I hate steroids I guess haha
> 
> What you on thyroid meds for 69 if you don't mind me asking?


Thyroid issues run in my family. Mine works for shit. I'm on t3 and t4 for life.  

I actually have a very nice endo who understands my life style and has given me advice and bloodwork when I raise my t3 dosage to cut.


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