# Coming off HRT after 6.5 years



## sz82 (Aug 21, 2017)

Hi guys im 34 and been on HRT since 28. It started when i was 22 and took tren and never recovered completely. I did a few cycles before from 17-22. I'm all messed up now because Im 8 weeks off and just tested at 153ng (range 240-827). Im weak, fatigued, have sleepless nights, ridden with anxiety, having panic attacks, crying, soft voice, no energy to carry on a conversation - which scares me. feel the brain fog. 

This is the longest Ive been off but I heard others can recover. I was fine at 28 testing at 392ng. Felt a million bucks compared to now but thought I was low. I was SO STUPID!! How can I stay off and recover? Any advise? Would my test levels come back? I really don't want to go back on but can't feel this terrible either. I'm having massive anxiety about everything. My sleep apnea is worse now. This was caused from the tren - it attacks your kidneys and then invades your other organs. I'm into the chinese medicine thing about kidney yin and yang which makes total sense.  I was on chinese herbs first 6 weeks and didn't feel this bad but then was told to stop one of them and felt this shitty, now Im even worried about taking those herbs, who knows what they are doing. I eat perfectly to recover but I can't go on like this anymore!

I know there is a member on here j2048b but I cannot PM him since I don't have 25 points. If someone can PLEASE reach out to him to reply here and help me out or if others can help I would appreciate it so much. I believe he was on for 8 years and came off, took him 6 months to recover back to 567 which is astounding. I just hope I can make it through this.

Thanks,
Shawn


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## Spongy (Aug 22, 2017)

Shawn, I've done the same j2048b was a client of mine .  You have not told me what you actually did to recover.  There are many who will help you here but you need to tell us if you actually tried to recover or not.  Hcg?  Hmg?  Pct?  Anything?  Like I said, here to help.


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## therealkozmo (Aug 22, 2017)

Do 12.5mg clomid every 3 days


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## Tren4Life (Aug 22, 2017)

Cashout had a recovery thread years ago. It's probably in an archive somewhere here, maybe a mod can look it up.


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## sz82 (Aug 22, 2017)

Sorry I did not mention. I didn't do a PCT because Clomid has sides I'm not willing to deal with like the vision problems although I used it many years ago like when I was 19 when I would have recovered after a short cycle without it anyway. Nolvadex I heard was toxic even though I used that before, I didn't notice much in side effects. I am paranoid about using anything. I'm using chinese herbs right now they say tonifies the kidneys to restore my health. I remembered reading the post on peaktosterone when j2048b mentioned no PCT. I was using HCG the whole time. My boys are full, in fact, they drop and are fuller than I had on HRT (unless of course I took HCG), but they seem to be the same size as if I took HCG, natural. They didn't test my LH and FSH and urinalysis was not done so I need to do that again. Really bothers me now.


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## sz82 (Aug 23, 2017)

I was recommended today by an acupuncturist I see to continue the herbs to build my energy up but if i cannot endure this misery, then i should get back on half dose of what i was on and use the herbs with it and then slowly taper off. i just hate having to throw away 8 weeks but i cant feel like this anymore. im extremely anxious, i cannot even carry a conversation with someone, my energy is that low. but walking is fine, i stopped training completely. my testes are full and hang, all the time, depending on if my e2 rises then they get tighter but they are not small anymore, they were small on cycle unless i just took HCG.

is clomid the answer at this point with the herbs or going back on and then tapering off over a span of 6 months to a year after the herbs have brought me up to speed. for those not familiar, your kidneys produce your hormones. read chinese medicine yin and yang. they aren't just a filtering organ. i got into this the last few years. i really want to stay off but i need my life back.


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## #TheMatrix (Aug 23, 2017)

Tren4Life said:


> Cashout had a recovery thread years ago. It's probably in an archive somewhere here, maybe a mod can look it up.



https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3266-Cashout-s-HRT-Exit-Strategy


Its a sticky in the trt forum....where the OP asked this question. Im actually surprised he didnt search in the trt section if he was going to post about trt 
He knew where to post but didnt really research previous.


Usually when i want to try new ice cream.
I ask google.
Hey google...what ice cream is trending on twitter.

Anyway.
Click link above and read the whole 10 pages...


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## sz82 (Aug 23, 2017)

I know all about PCT brother, been in this game since 2000. I wanted to avoid using clomid because of the sides but I used it before and I didn't go blind so I am considering that at this point


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## #TheMatrix (Aug 23, 2017)

sz82 said:


> I know all about PCT brother, been in this game since 2000. I wanted to avoid using clomid because of the sides but I used it before and I didn't go blind so I am considering that at this point



Well. The method above has been proven. If you were looking for a formula, cashout pretty much invented it.

As for not looking for formulas and being in the game long enough. I wish you great success in getting back to natty.

Everything has side effects...it doesnt mean your the unlucky one thats going to win the lottery at getting the shit end of the sides. 

Hey, the eclipse could have also made you blind right?


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## j2048b (Aug 23, 2017)

yo man what up!! 

yeah i did recover, dont remember the exact posting over at peaks forums tho, i know everyone's body is different, for 1 i never messed or will ever ever mess with tren, i used hcg, clomid,  and something else if i remember correctly, sorry man i dont remember you over there, send me a visitor message and ill rehash the thread over at peaks ,

listen to these guys tho, spongy is correct i was a client of his he helped me thru a ton of stuff, much love sponge!

follow the link to cashouts restart thread it will help you out, 

if u got any q's please post here in this thread we are all here to help, depression is part of this, it sucks, u need to stay busy while coming down from these hormones until ur body reignites everything, believe me it was hell, but i am prolly going back on trt as since that thread my levels have been as low as 175, an currently 258, so im prolly gonna be back at it again if health allows, 

welcome to the thunderdome! shawn

ps i also can refer u to a doctor if u want that specializes in comin off aas and test,


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## sz82 (Aug 23, 2017)

yo j2048b! I'm glad you responded. The thread is right here at peak:

peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7307.15

I wasn't a member, it just came off on a search. You mentioned you just came off cold turkey due to health reasons without pct and it took you 6 months to get back up to like 567 or so! I was real excited to hear about that but not excited when you now mention you were at 175 and currently 258! I really do think lifestyle has everything to do with it, what you eat, stress, if you sit around indoors, breathe indoors air. i really believe one should be outdoors as much as possible, eat as organic as possible, and not too many raw fruits/veggies as this "cools off your internal fire that you need", etc. I am wondering if during these times, you are under stress or things are just a bit different in your lifestyle as 2 years ago when you came back at 567? I really don't think you should go back on TRT if you did get to that level. I would look at lifestyle differences between that time and now. I know all this stuff now but unfortunately am in this situation now. If I ever do recover to at least 392 just like I did before I started, I'll never go back on this again. The E2 spikes were a nightmare and hormones deplete your kidney yin (sounds strange but its true).

do you think I should go ahead with the clomid then at this point? My boys are large and hanging but still got the low test at 153. also i wouldn't mind a referal to a doc that specializes in coming off AAS or TRT. thanks!


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## j2048b (Aug 23, 2017)

sz82 said:


> yo j2048b! I'm glad you responded. The thread is right here at peak:
> 
> peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7307.15
> 
> ...


Ill take a look when i get a chance, thanks for the re link, 

Im stressed all the time, im almost 40, and have been on trt for about 10 yrs, maybe 1 yr off when i did recover to over 500, 

Clomid, hcg will help, read cashouts restart program will help,

At my point in life and depression setting in, if everything comes back great from my vascular surgeon ill be back on trt, i dont have a choice, low hormones,  it effects ur life to the point of paranoia, trust issues, suicidal tendencies etc.... i need to get my hormones back on par...


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## gymrat827 (Aug 23, 2017)

sz82 said:


> I know all about PCT brother, been in this game since 2000. I wanted to avoid using clomid because of the sides but I used it before and I didn't go blind so I am considering that at this point



than nolva, ralox, hcg


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## sz82 (Aug 23, 2017)

i did read that cashout thread a while ago but wanted to confirm you did recover with no PCT in 6 months. how you feel now is how i have been feeling lately: paranoia, anxiety attacks, etc. but this is because of stopping. if you are experiencing this naturally, then it is best to try to relax as much as possible and be optimistic about things in life and eat a solid diet, continue exercising, etc. but yes hormones affect everything in your life. it sucks.


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## j2048b (Aug 23, 2017)

sz82 said:


> i did read that cashout thread a while ago but wanted to confirm you did recover with no PCT in 6 months. how you feel now is how i have been feeling lately: paranoia, anxiety attacks, etc. but this is because of stopping. if you are experiencing this naturally, then it is best to try to relax as much as possible and be optimistic about things in life and eat a solid diet, continue exercising, etc. but yes hormones affect everything in your life. it sucks.


This is how most feel when their hormones are in the crapper, not just based on diet or excercise man, it is what it is, i went thru this last time, and took months and months, but yeah never did pct, and things worked out well FOR ME, doesnt mean nything to anyone else unless their body can replicate it, 

U need to try to either get thru this with no pct or do a lengthy cashout type pct to restart,


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## sz82 (Aug 23, 2017)

Ok. Is it a good sign if my boys are plump and hanging? They are not small.


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## j2048b (Aug 24, 2017)

sz82 said:


> Ok. Is it a good sign if my boys are plump and hanging? They are not small.


Haha well u could just be more blessed than the rest of us hahaha, its a good sign man, get some clomid and hcg, follow cashouts restart and see how u fair, sorry i wish i was more helping, but honestly its all in the individual, and how their body reacts and restarts, if it will at all, it should tho, ur younger, but u never know if u got underlying issues...

What ive learned has been thru the guys here and a few other places, 

Im happy to help and so are the others here any time!

Glad my story from another forum helped u to find this place

Ill post a message in ur visitors message box of the docs i know if that might help u, its not cheap going thru them but they are pretty good


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## sz82 (Aug 24, 2017)

Jesus man, i hope its a good sign. i dont have any serious underlying conditions. i just used tren when i was 22 and never fully recovered but did one more cycle of test and dbol 6 months later and recovered with hcg 500iu a day for 10 days then clomid, nolva etc. been clean from 23-28. at 26 i tested at 542ng. at 28 392 but at 26 i was more active and ate better. at 28 i got into all this computer science crap and spent my days indoors eating 2 meals a day and barely training. so im sure i could have kept that 542. i felt 392 was on the low side although i would give anything to go back to how i felt at that point. i was perfectly fine! had morning wood everyday and enough to climax 1-2 times a day! libido was fine, everything was fine!! i started my own HRT and then a doc prescribed it eventually but i really don't feel like i need it!

i guess i'll start on the clomid since i cant feel the way i do now but trying hard to resist touching test or hcg (i dont feel i need hcg if boys are plump and hang, i think its for those that have raisins). Thanks a lot. i'll keep you guys posted on how i recover.


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## j2048b (Aug 24, 2017)

sz82 said:


> Jesus man, i hope its a good sign. i dont have any serious underlying conditions. i just used tren when i was 22 and never fully recovered but did one more cycle of test and dbol 6 months later and recovered with hcg 500iu a day for 10 days then clomid, nolva etc. been clean from 23-28. at 26 i tested at 542ng. at 28 392 but at 26 i was more active and ate better. at 28 i got into all this computer science crap and spent my days indoors eating 2 meals a day and barely training. so im sure i could have kept that 542. i felt 392 was on the low side although i would give anything to go back to how i felt at that point. i was perfectly fine! had morning wood everyday and enough to climax 1-2 times a day! libido was fine, everything was fine!! i started my own HRT and then a doc prescribed it eventually but i really don't feel like i need it!
> 
> i guess i'll start on the clomid since i cant feel the way i do now but trying hard to resist touching test or hcg (i dont feel i need hcg if boys are plump and hang, i think its for those that have raisins). Thanks a lot. i'll keep you guys posted on how i recover.



Honestly IT does seem like u need trt, id get blood work done and see where ur at, but yes u can make changes to hopefully overcome the low test and hopefully raise it to "normal" levels but always remember what is normal for one might not be normal for another, ill send u a message w a few docs that u can go thru if funds are available


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## sz82 (Aug 24, 2017)

I just did get blood work done actually, just last Tuesday. It came back at 153 (240-827) after 7 weeks off. they didnt test LH and FSH so doing that tomorrow again actually with a new total and SHBG with a different lab this time. Remember I do have an HRT doc and he tells me of course to just go back on it...


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## j2048b (Aug 24, 2017)

i sent u a pm, read it, and listen to the guys on here, gymrat already told u other stuff that would help,

if u dont want to be on trt, then ask ur doc what he recommends to restart as well...

153.... id be on trt , hell mine was 250, hematologist and urologist both said back to trt for u....

it will take a lot of time and effort along w horrible sides if u decide to forgo trt and do a restart, u decide and dont forget, these guys have given u valuable info as well,


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## sz82 (Aug 24, 2017)

im trying my best to stay off. i really want to recover and be normal again. understand, i just stopped after 6.5 years, its definitely going to be in the tank. im just going to try the clomid and see what it does and go from there. im having a panic attack right now, this is what this does to me. my energy is so low i cannot even hold a conversation with someone. this frightens me.


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## j2048b (Aug 24, 2017)

sz82 said:


> im trying my best to stay off. i really want to recover and be normal again. understand, i just stopped after 6.5 years, its definitely going to be in the tank. im just going to try the clomid and see what it does and go from there. im having a panic attack right now, this is what this does to me. my energy is so low i cannot even hold a conversation with someone. this frightens me.


Welcome to my world, i have panic attacks, and anxiety but feel so much better on trt, but my wife says i like to fawk to much and im a d ick head when im on trt, hahaha oh well i love being on trt, and it helps my body, ill stay on if i can and if not then ill figure something else out


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## sz82 (Aug 24, 2017)

have you ever heard of not being able to speak much? this scares me, i believe its from anxiety though, it paralyzes me. truth is, my korean acupuncturist said its low CHI which means its from low energy from stopping. he did say its not a smart move to stop cold turkey. god dammit. i might just have to go back on and rebuild from there


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## j2048b (Aug 24, 2017)

sz82 said:


> have you ever heard of not being able to speak much? this scares me, i believe its from anxiety though, it paralyzes me. truth is, my korean acupuncturist said its low CHI which means its from low energy from stopping. he did say its not a smart move to stop cold turkey. god dammit. i might just have to go back on and rebuild from there


Yes cold turkey is usually a no no, i had no choice id go back on and do a proper pct, that way ur not having issues as bad as u describe,


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## sz82 (Aug 24, 2017)

just got back from the ER, i was so paranoid about it, they drew blood and said i have anxiety from stopping but otherwise am fine, doc said i had balls stopping cold turkey like that but that i have already went through the shittiest part being 8.5 weeks off already. it can only get better from here. my boys are full and hang so that has to be really good. they havent been like this since 2009 or so (unless i take HCG and dial in my E2 all perfectly which i could rarely do while on - always ended up too high or low and sack gets tight).


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