# Looking for participants in Testosterone study/survey



## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

*First, I apologize for posting this without contacting moderators first. I wasn't able to find a list of moderators for this forum? With previous forums I have contacted mods, gotten approval, then posted the study. *

 Thank you for viewing this post. I'm a 4th year Urology resident performing a study concerning the current usage patterns of testosterone , associated AAS, and potential side effects including fertility outcomes. *To be a candidate for the study you must be a male (18+) with a history of testosterone use (in any form with or without other AAS) for any period of time. People providing their own TRT/HRT are encouraged to participate, but those on TRT/HRT with physician guidance are excluded.* This is not an anti-steroid study, we are merely looking at usage patterns, reasons for use, and our primary interest is future fertility since we see many similar patients in clinic. *The study is an anonymous 5 minute survey. No future contact will be made with study participants and there's no legal liability. I would greatly appreciate your time and participation.* Feel free to post any questions in this thread and I will address them as promptly as possible. When the results are in and I have the manuscript written, I'll be sure to share them with all participating forums. 

*The study is currently posted on 3 AAS forums, 2 bodybuilding forums, and 1 HRT/TRT forum. In addition it has been distributed widely in my local area. I have accrued ~200 participants as of this morning. * I have had excellent feedback from most people taking the survey and they have been great to work with. 

*Contemporary Usage Of Testosterone – Cohort Description, Utilization Patterns, And Adverse Effects *

 Thank you for taking the below linked survey. The study protocol has been approved by our Institutional Review Board (IRB). Your answers are anonymous, confidential, and free of legal liability. No future contact will be made regarding the study. 


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[B]https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/testosterone_use[/B]
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 Sincerely,
 Chankle


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## Spongy (Mar 7, 2015)

What University and who is your advisor?


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## wabbitt (Mar 7, 2015)

Second time someone came and posted this same shit.  List of mods is right on the front page, so I don't buy your story either.  Go away.


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## wabbitt (Mar 7, 2015)

Right off the front page! http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/showgroups.php


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## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

wabbitt said:


> Right off the front page! http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/showgroups.php



My bad. I'll contact them. Thanks for the link. I looked, but didn't see one initially.


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## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

Spongy said:


> What University and who is your advisor?



I'm a 4th year Urology resident at Mayo Clinic Rochester, MN. I did my medical school at the University of North Dakota - The Fighting Sioux for any hockey fans.


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## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

I need 4 posts before I can PM... Here's number 4.


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## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

I tried to contact DocDePanda. It says I can't send PMs now until 10 posts. I have to head in to work. Hopefully a mod sees this thread and is willing to keep an open mind. Other forums have responded the same initially, but once they realized it was legit they were very interested and provided great data. All participating forums will get the final results and published paper.


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## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

I hope people can see this isn't your typical spam/scam here's a link click me. I put legitimate effort into the post, the study, and the paper that will come of it. I understand your skepticism, but please participate if you have a moment. Thanks.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 7, 2015)

As far as I know you're allowed to post this but it's up to people to voluntarily decide to fill in the survey if they deem the risks worth the reward.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 7, 2015)

chankle said:


> I hope people can see this isn't your typical spam/scam here's a link click me. I put legitimate effort into the post, the study, and the paper that will come of it. I understand your skepticism, but please participate if you have a moment. Thanks.


I actually enjoy seeing these things post here. Thanks for asking us to participate.


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## SuperBane (Mar 7, 2015)

Why not participate yourself?


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## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> I actually enjoy seeing these things post here. Thanks for asking us to participate.



Thank you. I've gotten similar responses on other forums and it's great to see people who are interested in the science/academic aspect of AAS as well.


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## chankle (Mar 7, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> As far as I know you're allowed to post this but it's up to people to voluntarily decide to fill in the survey if they deem the risks worth the reward.



Thanks for the approval. Unfortunately, the only compensation I can offer is posting the abstract, manuscript, and data when I've completed it. I see no risk in the study, although that's an obvious concern and understandable. IRB approval from our institution requires "minimal risk to the participant." The data is confidential and can not be linked to an individual. It's done through an independent, 3rd party site - survey monkey.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 8, 2015)

SuperBane said:


> Why not participate yourself?


I will be. Always do when we get one of these. There are MASSIVE data gaps in the science of PED use for actual performance enhancement purposes. Every new bit of research helps.


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## snake (Mar 8, 2015)

Just a quick question; "_but those on TRT/HRT with physician guidance are excluded._" Any chance that excludes those of us that are legally acquiring our Testosterone? Why would you not want something more quantifiable?

Maybe there's a good reason but it does put my radar up.


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## snake (Mar 8, 2015)

Damn, it double posted!


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## chankle (Mar 8, 2015)

snake said:


> Just a quick question; "_but those on TRT/HRT with physician guidance are excluded._" Any chance that excludes those of us that are legally acquiring our Testosterone? Why would you not something more quantifiable?
> 
> Maybe there's a good reason but it does put my radar up.



The group I'm trying to exclude are those on HRT/TRT under physician guidance, because theoretically they will be maintained in a physiologic therapeutic range of 400-900ng/dl depending on the treating physician. If your physician is prescribing higher doses and knowingly keeping you supratherapeutic ie. 1000+ ng/dl it'd be great to have you in the study. Thanks for the question.

Please let me know if this doesn't fully answer your question. I can expound further if needed.


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## coltmc4545 (Mar 8, 2015)

POB can't this 3rd party site aquire your IP address though? Just a thought.


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## Tman (Mar 8, 2015)

coltmc4545 said:


> POB can't this 3rd party site aquire your IP address though? Just a thought.



I would say they can obtain ip address.. you would have to find a ip blocker..


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## Joliver (Mar 8, 2015)

I went ahead and space monkeyed the thing. 

Not being an ass when I say this, but the undertones of the study were a bit on the nose. Brief highlights for those that want to know:

1) who are you (physical description)?
2) are you educated and in good wealth (are you a loser now)?
3) were you a loser in high school?
4) how long you been geared up?
5) how much you take?
6) how much you spend?
7) go to the doc?
8)health probs? 
9) any of your buds dead because if AAS?
10) your dick work?
11) kids to prove it?

There was also a "how do you get your roids?" question that only a fool would answer.  

Overall, I'd give chankle the following scores on a scale of 1-5 (1 being lowest):

Originality: 1
Length of survey: 3
Boobs: 1
Invasiveness of questioning: 4
Evasiveness of motive: 5
Graphics/CGI: 1
Usefulness to science: division by zero error
Length of boner questioning section: 6
Use of explosions: 1

This is the sort of shenanigans I'd expect out of South Dakota. Hardly worthy of North Dakota.  You'd be wise not to show your face in Minot for a few weeks until I can call the boys off.  

I'm sorry if this was too long. I dropped the remote into my BarcaLounger and I'm on pain killers because of my recent surgical procedure--not your field, of course--I have to go to a large animal vet when I have problems "down there."


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 8, 2015)

coltmc4545 said:


> POB can't this 3rd party site aquire your IP address though? Just a thought.


Yes whether they would turn that over to him is highly unlikely. That would damage the sites credibility.


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## chankle (Mar 8, 2015)

joliver said:


> I went ahead and space monkeyed the thing.
> 
> Not being an ass when I say this, but the undertones of the study were a bit on the nose. Brief highlights for those that want to know:
> 
> ...



I'm sorry you don't approve of the study. Other forums have been very intrigued and interested in the results. Since this a description of a cohort it is not suppose to be overly in depth (will hurt participation) or compare group outcomes. There's no description in the literature of those using AAS, their demographics, health problems, children, and association with other ergogenic aids. I don't think my post of an academic, IRB approved study (ethical and minimal risk) warrants a public threat. Participation is voluntary. As for the source question, we aren't asking for you friends name and phone number. We are asking general categories with main interest in what % get AAS from doctors and anti-aging clinics. 

Attempts were made to not make the study too invasive or offending, but it's difficult with such a topic. I still disagree with some of the questions, but the principal investigator wanted them included. 

As for the IP address thing. I suppose survey monkey could, which I'm assuming would be very illegal on their part. On my side, I have no idea how to do that, IRB (institutional review board) wouldn't approve the study, and this is technically protected health information which makes it confidential. 

Objectives of the study
1. Describe the cohorts demographics
2. Are people using 1 steroid or many (obvious, but in medicine you need data)
3. Why are they using them? sports, hobby, self HRT 
4. Are they using other ergogenics, sexual function aids, recreational substances
5. Are they having health problems and monitoring their health? 
6. Are they maintaining fertility? Is this related to their use of PCT?
7. Have they had friends harmed by AAS? 
8. Standardized IIEF for erectile function measurement 
9. Are they having side effects or only benefits
10. Are AAS causing legal issues? 

These seem like reasonable objectives for the first study of its kind. 

Usually us North Dakotans give each other the benefit of the doubt.


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## chankle (Mar 8, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yes whether they would turn that over to him is highly unlikely. That would damage the sites credibility.



I have no use for it, don't want it, and have no interest in anyone being linked to this study. This is purely educational and I appreciate participation. There will be no future contact with participants.


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## chankle (Mar 8, 2015)

coltmc4545 said:


> POB can't this 3rd party site aquire your IP address though? Just a thought.



In a respectful way, I find it interesting this has been a concern in many forums. Not necessarily IP logging, but that the survey will be linked to them and used for legal purposes. It seems that taking a survey without a username, post record, and one protected by an IRB/Academic institution would be far safer than posting on a chat forum open to anybody? Generally, the forum members are somewhat critical of the survey as they've been here. Then some people take it, get interested, and the thread becomes a good topic of discussion.


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## Joliver (Mar 8, 2015)

chankle said:


> I'm sorry you don't approve of the study. Other forums have been very intrigued and interested in the results. Since this a description of a cohort it is not suppose to be overly in depth (will hurt participation) or compare group outcomes. There's no description in the literature of those using AAS, their demographics, health problems, children, and association with other ergogenic aids. I don't think my post of an academic, IRB approved study (ethical and minimal risk) warrants a public threat. Participation is voluntary. As for the source question, we aren't asking for you friends name and phone number. We are asking general categories with main interest in what % get AAS from doctors and anti-aging clinics.
> 
> Attempts were made to not make the study too invasive or offending, but it's difficult with such a topic. I still disagree with some of the questions, but the principal investigator wanted them included.
> 
> ...



Hey!!! WHO TOLD YOU I GET IT FROM MY FRIEND!? HUH!??? Who you been talking to? G call you?! Jk buddy...

I know your not looking for my suppliers number (867-5309...ask for jenny--you'll get jacked...one way or another). But if 8,798,426 of us say we get it from our gym buddy, then it becomes worth law enforcement's time to invest in efforts there. It is public research. AND PIGGIES CAN READ, MAN!

I don't disapprove of your study! I repped you man! We North Dakotites do stick together. Although your last question "do AAS cause legal problems?" is bogus. You want to know if dirty stinkin' criminals are committing this devilish sin--or if we are white, suburban attorneys like trini and hulksmash.

Two things and I will recommend everyone participate in the study:

1)Next time you do a roid study, spend an hour on a forum...understand your prey.
2) since you replied to my post, do I owe you a copay? 

Ok boys, take this survey. He's good to go.


*cough*dont do it he's a cop*cough*  Excuse me, I must have gotten choked.


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## chankle (Mar 8, 2015)

joliver said:


> Hey!!! WHO TOLD YOU I GET IT FROM MY FRIEND!? HUH!??? Who you been talking to? G call you?! Jk buddy...
> 
> I know your not looking for my suppliers number (867-5309...ask for jenny--you'll get jacked...one way or another). But if 8,798,426 of us say we get it from our gym buddy, then it becomes worth law enforcement's time to invest in efforts there. It is public research. AND PIGGIES CAN READ, MAN!
> 
> ...



Appreciate the humor and hopefully I'm still welcome in Minot. I was back there in October. In regards to the legal question, it's one I would have left out and people can skip any questions they wish. My main interest in this study is fertility rates, relation to PCT, and whether pregnancies are happening on cycle. That said, I'm only 1 of the authors. There's 3 other people who can write questions as well. 

Totally agree with getting to know the audience. I've spent a lot of time on forums and am rather involved with the BB community. I go to shows once or twice a year. I also just completed a cycle of smolov Jr. for bench and was impressed with the results. Probably the only program that was helped my weak bench. 

No copay... I already got your credit card info. J/K 

Thanks again man


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## Joliver (Mar 8, 2015)

chankle said:


> Appreciate the humor and hopefully I'm still welcome in Minot. I was back there in October. In regards to the legal question, it's one I would have left out and people can skip any questions they wish. My main interest in this study is fertility rates, relation to PCT, and whether pregnancies are happening on cycle. That said, I'm only 1 of the authors. There's 3 other people who can write questions as well.
> 
> Totally agree with getting to know the audience. I've spent a lot of time on forums and am rather involved with the BB community. I go to shows once or twice a year. I also just completed a cycle of smolov Jr. for bench and was impressed with the results. Probably the only program that was helped my weak bench.
> 
> ...



AAAAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Love this guy!!!! Smolov?!  He is speaking my language! And he is funny!??  Everyone knows the hallmark of a good doc is aftercare--and he has stayed here and answered my questions....more rep.

Edit:  We here at UGBB would like to bestow a distinguished honor upon Chankle.  The first survey doc to achieve a second rep bar.  You've earned it.  We are proud.  Dare I say....I see Veteran in his future.


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## chankle (Mar 8, 2015)

joliver said:


> AAAAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Love this guy!!!! Smolov?!  He is speaking my language! And he is funny!??  Everyone knows the hallmark of a good doc is aftercare--and he has stayed here and answered my questions....more rep.
> 
> Edit:  We here at UGBB would like to bestow a distinguished honor upon Chankle.  The first survey doc to achieve a second rep bar.  You've earned it.  We are proud.  Dare I say....I see Veteran in his future.



Honored to be the first to earn a 2nd rep bar. On a side note, let me know if you have any other good bench program recs. Finished Smolov last week and decided to keep trying to progress, so I cut frequency to 2x/week cut volume and will continue to add weight until I stall. Somewhat similar to what Lyle McDonald recommends on some of his specialization routines towards the end. Cut volume/frequency and keep pushing weights up.

Thanks, 
Chankle


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## Joliver (Mar 9, 2015)

chankle said:


> Honored to be the first to earn a 2nd rep bar. On a side note, let me know if you have any other good bench program recs. Finished Smolov last week and decided to keep trying to progress, so I cut frequency to 2x/week cut volume and will continue to add weight until I stall. Somewhat similar to what Lyle McDonald recommends on some of his specialization routines towards the end. Cut volume/frequency and keep pushing weights up.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chankle



I'm a straight westside program guy. The conjugate system has proven to be one of the best programs out there. It has made more champions than wheaties.  

Good program: wendler's 531 program
Better program: the cube (and all of it's variations)
Best program: westside conjugate training 

There are a couple of threads written by a brilliant and incredibly strong powerlifter here. Can't remember his name...

Westside: http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/11498-Westside-Powerlifting-Training
Cube:  http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/11890-The-CUBE-Method
531: no clue...there may be a phone app for it.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 9, 2015)

joliver said:


> I'm a straight westside program guy. The conjugate system has proven to be one of the best programs out there. It has made more champions than wheaties.
> 
> Good program: wendler's 531 program
> Better program: the cube (and all of it's variations)
> ...



and sexy. Dead sexy.


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## chankle (Mar 10, 2015)

joliver said:


> I'm a straight westside program guy. The conjugate system has proven to be one of the best programs out there. It has made more champions than wheaties.
> 
> Good program: wendler's 531 program
> Better program: the cube (and all of it's variations)
> ...



Awesome thanks! I've read some about Westside, but never ran it. Have had decent results with DC in the past, but Smolov Jr. was by far the best. Westside it is.


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## chankle (Mar 12, 2015)

Reposting the link. It disappeared from the first post. Or my computer is a POS and won't show it.


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## chankle (Apr 23, 2015)

chankle said:


> Reposting the link. It disappeared from the first post. Or my computer is a POS and won't show it.



Bumping the threads on all participating forums 1 last time. I need 15 more to complete the study. Thank you to all those who have participated. Expect the manuscript and data in the next couple of months. Please take the survey posted above to finish up the last 15 if you have time. 

Greatly Appreciated, 
Chankle


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## chankle (Aug 7, 2015)

Hey guys. Thanks for the patience. I've finished the rough draft for the fertility manuscript and attached below. I left the institution and author's names off until all have reviewed and it's ready for submission. I wanted to update the forum and show this was a legitimate study made possible by your willingness to participate. For that I thank you. Couple caveats to the paper

1. I'm limited to 2500-3000 words depending on the journal submission so I had to keep things somewhat short

2. This paper focuses only on fertility and sexual function. Multiple other papers will come from the data, but this is the first

3. The study is retrospective and based on a survey. Thus, nothing will be truly groundbreaking and much of the paper will likely seem like commonsense to you guys. That said, there's minimal reports in the literature and even though this data is somewhat intuitive it fills a void in the current literature 

4. I did my best to stay neutral and avoid propaganda often associated with AAS. That said, the practice is not completely benign and there are known health risks associated with it. 

5. Forums and participants were kept anonymous. 

6. I thought the fertility rates were encouraging and unexpectedly high. Also, the use of PDEI and sexual enhancement meds was much higher than previously described cohorts. Again interesting, but somewhat concerning when the purity of these drugs is questioned in the literature. 

7. I'm open for any constructive criticism

8. Thanks again for your participation 

Uploader doesn't work and I can't post a link until 20 posts. Will try to get up to my 20.


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## chankle (Aug 7, 2015)

Here's 19.....


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## chankle (Aug 7, 2015)

20..................


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## chankle (Aug 7, 2015)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1vqk4hgkvt7pvqg/Fertility Manuscript - Rough Draft.pdf?dl=0

Link to file.


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## grizzldsealpoacher (Aug 7, 2015)

says the survey is closed... anyone who can't see the link posted like myself just click in the white box provided and it will highlight the link


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## Joliver (Aug 7, 2015)

Best buddy chankle is back!!!!


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## chankle (Aug 8, 2015)

grizzldsealpoacher said:


> says the survey is closed... anyone who can't see the link posted like myself just click in the white box provided and it will highlight the link



Yes the survey is closed because I accrued enough participants. The first manuscript to come from the data is posted above.


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## chankle (Aug 8, 2015)

Cornelius Coanbread J. Oliver said:


> Best buddy chankle is back!!!!



Haha... yeah had to come back and prove my study was legitimate. Was delayed a bit because my appendix ruptured and I had to get it removed, but the first paper is nearing completion. I have a lot of free time to write since I can't be in the gym for 6 weeks.


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## Joliver (Aug 8, 2015)

chankle said:


> Haha... yeah had to come back and prove my study was legitimate. Was delayed a bit because my appendix ruptured and I had to get it removed, but the first paper is nearing completion. I have a lot of free time to write since I can't be in the gym for 6 weeks.



Lot of time for writing you say???  Well, we can flame Zeigler, or beg chicks for noodz while we chat about roids and lifting, or.....you can write that paper.

Question is: do you want that knee length coat, or to be cool........

This is a UG defining moment. Choose wisely.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 8, 2015)

Cornelius Coanbread J. Oliver said:


> Lot of time for writing you say???  Well, we can flame Zeigler, or beg chicks for noodz while we chat about roids and lifting, or.....you can write that paper.
> 
> Question is: do you want that knee length coat, or to be cool........
> 
> This is a UG defining moment. Choose wisely.


Wtf nice handle Mr. Cornelius Coanbread J. Oliver... lol


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## Joliver (Aug 8, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Wtf nice handle Mr. Cornelius Coanbread J. Oliver... lol



Cornelius is my Christian name....and who doesn't like coanbread?


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