# One Year later...Post HRT



## Cashout (Dec 7, 2012)

Guys I want to give you a quick “one year” update.

As most of you know I exited HRT on Dec 5th last year. I detailed my exit protocol and the reasons behind it in another thread both here and on another board.

Well, Dec 5th of 12’ has come and gone and I’ve got information to report. I had my blood drawn on Wednesday and got the results back this morning.

Everything looks great! Just a quick summary on the numbers:

Total Test:  902, estrogen: 22, LH & FSH both in the ‘High’ range on the scale for a 42 year old male.

Beyond the numbers, I feel great and have been able to remain vigorous and healthy throughout the past 12 months without any complications. Best news - not so much as a cold or sniffle!

Training has been outstanding and my conditioning is exactly where I want it to be.

I really haven’t noticed any decline or improvement in my strength but most of you know I don’t train for “strength” so I really have no true measure of that you guys could understand.

The big lesson that I learned from my time on HRT and now off really is:

Identify and eliminate the factors in your life that could contribute to the decline and/or suppression of your own HPTA. This was the big issue for me and the very one where I made my mistake.

There you have it - one year later and still on top of my game!


----------



## mistah187 (Dec 7, 2012)

Congrats bro that is sweet!


----------



## DF (Dec 7, 2012)

Great to hear Cashout!


----------



## jennerrator (Dec 7, 2012)

Awesome!!!!


----------



## Four1Thr33 (Dec 7, 2012)

Fantastic brother that's some good numbers


----------



## SAD (Dec 7, 2012)

What are you doing to get your natty test level so high?  That's incredible and clearly shows that you've done your research and are doing the right things wisely.  Any supps that you believe are contributing?

Really inspirational.  Mad respect.


----------



## Cashout (Dec 7, 2012)

No supps - my natural test levels have always been around 900. When I was 18 before I started cycling, I had them checked and that is where they were.

After my cycles and PCT, they would re-establish right around the high 800s - low 900s. 

I've had blood work done 3 times a year even after I stopped cycling and competing at age 23 and my natural level was right around 900 every time - it was right there from 23 to the time I turned 36. Then they started dropping because of the stress related issues I mentioned.

Since I've come off HRT and gone through the protocol, I've been able to keep them back up around 900 without any supplementation at all. Again, the big thing is that I've cleared out the stress factors that were wearing me out.


----------



## ccpro (Dec 7, 2012)

That was a quick year!!!  So, your reversed your hypo? or you never needed trt?


----------



## Cashout (Dec 7, 2012)

ccpro said:


> That was a quick year!!!  So, your reversed your hypo? or you never needed trt?



In hindsight, likely never needed to be on HRT, just need to address some of the conditions that cause the downward 3 year spiral in my own natural T level. A "restart" and eliminating the stress factors likely would have been most appropriate.

As I mentioned, as guys we just don't recognize the factors when we are knee deep in them every day. I can see my mistakes so clearly now and I look back and say "well, duh!" but at the time it is hard to get perspective.

The other thing that really played in my favor is having a family full of physicians. I have always had that resource as a support system and that enable me to network to the right MDs with enough insight to help me treat the causes as opposed to treating only the symptoms.


----------



## LeanHerm (Dec 7, 2012)

Thats great cash and thanks for sharing.  It's amazing after all these years you returned so closevtovwhere it was at 18.  That's insane brother.


----------



## j2048b (Dec 7, 2012)

Awesome to hear cashout! Man i might give that restart a try to see how i respond!


----------



## ccpro (Dec 7, 2012)

Cash, I'll make another thread for this but I've suspected other varables for low t as well.  For instance, the effect of painkillers on the thyroid and diminshed test.  The truth is I was researching suboxone and low test. when I found ology and many helpful bros. which eventually brought me here!


----------



## Cashout (Dec 8, 2012)

ccpro said:


> Cash, I'll make another thread for this but I've suspected other varables for low t as well.  For instance, the effect of painkillers on the thyroid and diminshed test.  The truth is I was researching suboxone and low test. when I found ology and many helpful bros. which eventually brought me here!



There are a whole host of things that can affect one's HPTA. 

The obvious ones are drugs, poor diet, lack of exercise, drinking ect. 

For me, I've never done any of those things so it was a little harder for me to say "hey, I'm causing this problem by doing...."

I was ready to just accept the fact that I was getting older but that was not it at all.

Since I've spent a lot of time analyzing the past 6 years of my life, it is obvious to me now.


----------



## ken Sass (Dec 8, 2012)

don't take this wrong cash but you are a freak of nature. natty test at 900 shhhh


----------



## ccpro (Dec 8, 2012)

ken said:


> don't take this wrong cash but you are a freak of nature. natty test at 900 shhhh



wish I was...well I am but not that way!!!


----------



## BigFella (Dec 11, 2012)

Really, really good, Cash. And I'm not one bit surprised. You're an inspiration to us all.

If everyone was like you there wouldn't be many families of physicians. They'd have nothing to do.


----------



## Cashout (Dec 13, 2012)

Okay, just to wrap this 'one year later' update. Got the full physical data and Dexa scan this morning along with a pic from yesterday's workout.

Dexa Body Fat = 5.3%
Resting Pulse = 52 bpm
BP = 126/68
Body Weight = 181.2 lbs
VO2 Uptake Max = 74 ml/kg/min


----------



## juuced (Dec 13, 2012)

wow !  Im very impressed.  yes you most definately are an inpsiration to us all.

I hope you hang around our group for a long time to come.


----------



## Cashout (Dec 13, 2012)

You know I appreciate it.

That said, I'll write this and I want everyone to know that I sincerely mean it.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not "gifted" or "blessed" with genetics or a super metabolism or any thing like that.

I have always been very average with respect to my capabilities in every regard - physically, intellectually, whatever.

I just learned a long time ago that the difference for me was going to be the "will" to stay the course when others would not do so.

I write this to say that any of you guys out there can make the changes in your respective lives to build the type of physique you aspirate to have. It is 100% a choice and it is yours to make every day.

Every day it is about making the right choice - at breakfast, in the gym, at a party, during the holidays. No matter what it all boils doing to making each choice one at a time and doing it the right way. One choice at a time.

So many times we get focused on where we want to get to or what "level" we are trying to reach that we lose sight of the details of making the right choices each and every day even in the most minuscule ways.

That is the key to success in anything you do and this is no different. 

Start today. Make every choice matter. Treat each one like it is the most important choice - it is the one you have to make at that moment so it is the most important at that time. Right choice - every time one at a time!


----------



## juuced (Dec 13, 2012)

AMEN !  speaking of choices.  Its the holiday season and we have so many parties and get togethers with so many temptations.

I find the next month to be hell for me to resist all those evils.  To top it all off I have a doc appointment for weigh in and body fat test in mid Jan. so I was looking to break my records by then.  Its going to be hard but I will think of Cashout when those choices pop up!


----------



## JOMO (Dec 13, 2012)

Calves like cricket bats!


----------



## corvettels3 (Dec 20, 2012)

JOMO said:


> Calves like cricket bats!



no shit.. they're huge. Thanks for the update cash..


----------



## JAXNY (Dec 20, 2012)

Cashout said:


> Okay, just to wrap this 'one year later' update. Got the full physical data and Dexa scan this morning along with a pic from yesterday's workout.
> 
> Dexa Body Fat = 5.3%
> Resting Pulse = 52 bpm
> ...



Nice work Cash. That's dedication discipline 
And good choices all the way. 
Very inspirational.


----------



## transcend2007 (Dec 21, 2012)

Cashout thanks for the update.  I've reread this thread a few times and I am unclear what you felt caused your lower testosterone (and how you reverse it).  

Others of us may benefit if you're more direct about stress induced HPTA suppression.  What exact stress are you talking about, how did you identify it, and most important how did you reduce or eliminate it.


----------



## Cashout (Dec 22, 2012)

In a nutshell...

1) Even though I am technically retired, I was juggling a lot of responsibilities in my own schedule which contributed to a me running myself ragged on a daily basis. 

2) I was training in a way that was inconsistent with my goals and that lead to over training.

3) I was exposed to a whole host of new viruses and illnesses that my little boys, who had started school, where bringing into the house.

So, I would get sick and in turn, train harder to make up ground, only to get worn out and sick again.

Once I sorted out those issues, it became clear to me that I might be able to reboot my system and keep it balanced.


----------



## Spongy (Dec 22, 2012)

Thank you so much for documenting this.  I'm hoping that I may be able to restart as well and will make an attempt in May using a similar protocol.  I know that our situations for starting TRT were different so I don't know that I will be able to have the same results but I will try and keep the members here posted.  Thanks again!


----------



## NbleSavage (Dec 22, 2012)

Great update, Cash. Respect for your thoughtful analysis and determination to stay the course.


----------



## Hollywood72 (Dec 22, 2012)

I always enjoy your posts. I tried to mimic your diet but after 5 days or so I wander to something different for a couple of days. However, I have learned a lot about self control and discipline from you and because of that my overall health has increased greatly. We appreciate your help and sharing in our common goals.


----------



## transcend2007 (Dec 23, 2012)

Thanks Cash for the detailed explanation.  I have been and do deal with some of the things you spoke of here.

You are to be commended for turning things around in your life.  I can say for certain that is not easily done.  

In fact, my life seems to become more stressful over time and has seemed to generally move in that direction.  That's why hrt / trt have been helpful for me and no doubt many others.

So, are you saying you have changed your training substantially and that have found a way to cope with illnesses (cold and flu's) from your children.  My 3 year old grandson seems to be a one child cold delivery unit directly to me unfortunately.  I should own stock in EmerinC and Zicam (both great products IMO).  

I would appreciate hearing about your carefully crafted solutions to these pretty common but exceptionally difficult challenges to solve.

Thank you for the contributions you continually make!



Cashout said:


> In a nutshell...
> 
> 1) Even though I am technically retired, I was juggling a lot of responsibilities in my own schedule which contributed to a me running myself ragged on a daily basis.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cashout (Dec 23, 2012)

First, the biggest issue was my training.

I was still focused on this idea of pushing forward to some "next level." That caused me to train with the mindset that I was still trying to grow new muscle and "add" to my physique.

For me, that type of training involved physically taxing myself to such a point that it compromised my immune system and my body's ability to repair and recover. 

You've seen the pictures in this tread and elsewhere - you can tell that I am at the absolute max of my genetic potential. I don't have the capacity to add more muscle naturally. Trying to do so is an exercise in beating my body down to the point of no return.

So, from economics, I began to realize that I hit a point where the  "law of marginal utility" is at work for me in my training. The total amount of work it take to improve my physique a fraction of a percent is not worth the total amount of work need to make it happen. It is counterproductive and actually damages my overall health.

That forced me to consider the amount of rest, the duration of my training session, the frequency, the type of exercises, sets, and reps I do in my training. Those things have all changed as a result of the law of marginal utility.

In the end, I now train to maintain exeactly what I have - 5% bodyfat, lots of ripped muscle, and the look of a pre-contest bodybuilder. 

It is a lot easier style of training for me and one that keeps me healthier now that I am not wearing myself out trying to make some impossible improvements.


Next, changes in training helped spur some improvements in my overall health.

Since I'm not overtraining myself, my body has had a much easier time fighting off this common colds and flus that seem to plague me for 3 straight years. Also, nature has run its course now and my kids a older and they themselves are less susceptible to illness now that there own immune systems have developed some tolerances. That doesn't stop me from taking precautions of my own. A few years back, I was traveling a lot more doing speaking engagements and promoting my books. That mean airplanes and closed quarters with lots of sick people. Now days, I podcast and webinar all of these events. No need for me to leave the house. That helps too.

Lastly, I've learned how to manage the demands of "personal relationships" much better. Before I sold my corporation I was the CFO of a $300 million dollar company with 167 employees but I had very few personal interactions with anyone. I gave orders and people did what they were told to do. I provided leadership in the form of vision, strategy, and decision making but there was really no personal interactions. I never thought about that. When I got married and had my two boys, for the first time in my life, I couldn't just bark out an order and have it followed. I actually had to engage on in a personal way and do the "hand holding." Well, in the beginning, I stunk at the "personal relationship" stuff. Now that I've been doing it a while, it has gotten less stressful for me. Not because I have gotten any better at it but because I now have different expectations about what will occur and how I need to plan and act. So, experience has been a good teacher in that area of my life and helped me re-define how I function in that process.

Making all three of those changes have really helped me bring back a balance in my days. I don't feel like I am running on a tredmill day-in and day-out. I actually do more on a day-to-day basis now than I did 3 years ago and I've just learned how to approach the very different aspects of my life.


----------



## BigTruck (Jan 12, 2013)

Wow cash such wisdom, positivity, and motivation. I love it all bro.


----------



## gotti (Jan 31, 2013)

im sorry to bother you but i start this week your pct protocol my question is nolvadex i should run from week 3 Sat/Sun only until the week 9 including ?? Thanks in advance


----------

