# What were ur lifting amounts when u first cycled and...



## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Some say if u can bench, squat and deadlift 1.5 times ur body weight ur considered strong, so i just wanted to ask:


Just wondering what peoples general lifting poundages where when they first cycled?

Why do u use certain compounds and 
how long did it take u to realize certain compounds where not for u? 

Just a general series of question that may shed some more light on steroid usage and y people chose to go this route and peoples perception of strength


I am asking this in light of a few posts ive read of late from another forum where dudes were or are still under 30 and are already getting half their livers removed and comming close to death because they chose to use some ungodly amounts of aas way before they may have needed them


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## Jada (Apr 5, 2013)

Hey j204 well this has been my second cycle and my incline db press went from 80lbs on my first cycle  to now 90lbs on my second cycle .  I don't personally feel that I'm abusing my body since I research first ask ? And do things properly but over all to is taking time off. I have a friend who doesn't really come off. He went from a primo and epo ,test and  decca to now test winstrol and hgh and now thinking slin!!! He is nuts no pct no hcg no time off . I try my best to share my knowledge but he's like sure buddy so I say to my self fk it do u.


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Werd thanks jada, i know most people give and actually take good sound advice,  im just wanting to see how many people where actually pushing huge amounts of weights or actually used aas in order to get to the massive weights they now push, 

And i know aas are not a magic bullet, 

Its just a shame some take vanity over health ya know?


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## losieloos (Apr 5, 2013)

I know a guy who takes a gram of test a week andbrags about curling 100 pound barbells, he looks like shit I tried to help but he doesn't listen.  I asked him why are you taking a gram a week he said "so I can feel strong".


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

losieloos said:


> I know a guy who takes a gram of test a week andbrags about curling 100 pound barbells, he looks like shit I tried to help but he doesn't listen.  I asked him why are you taking a gram a week he said "so I can feel strong".



See and the dudes that r getting their livers cut out and very bad health problems have all been on huge amounts and just doing shit very unhealthy!

Im wondering if other peoples poundages warranted their usage or was it lack of strength and poundages?


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## ken Sass (Apr 5, 2013)

my 1st cycle was 1984, it was dbol and just dbol at 60 mg a week. i was squatting 315, bench was about 235. body weight was 175. aw the good old days lol


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Nice ken!! Thanks for the reply and input!


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## RISE (Apr 5, 2013)

I trained for 8 years before I started AAS.  My PR's were 350 bench, 405 squat, and 405 deadlift (didn't deadlift properly) at 175.  I know longer do barbell bench and never max out anymore.  I train alot smarter so can;t tell you what they are now, but prob not as much.  I can say I can do more weight for more reps than I used to.

As for why I use, my goals are not realistic for me to gain them naturally.


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

RISE said:


> I trained for 8 years before I started AAS.  My PR's were 350 bench, 405 squat, and 405 deadlift (didn't deadlift properly) at 175.  I know longer do barbell bench and never max out anymore.  I train alot smarter so can;t tell you what they are now, but prob not as much.  I can say I can do more weight for more reps than I used to.



Thanks rise! Great numbers at 175! Wow,


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## Yaya (Apr 5, 2013)

At the age of 19 i was natty and benched 225 for 2 reps i weighed about 180

By the age of 21 after 2 cycles 315 10x clean wih no spot..thanks to steris cyp and pink dbols. Weight about 210

This was about 10 years ago now who knows


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Yaya said:


> At the age of 19 i was natty and benched 225 for 2 reps
> 
> By the age of 21 after 2 cycles 315 10x clean wih no spot..thanks to steris cyp and pink dbols
> 
> This was about 10 years ago now who knows



Damn yaya nice,

Ueah im now figuring out that most dont give a damn what they max at as long as progression is on point


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## mattyice (Apr 5, 2013)

My first cycle lifts went from bench 325-405lbs oh 165-245lbs. I never squat more than 315lbs and I dont dead lift. I also lost 50-60lbs during cycle.


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Dang nice matty!


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## SAD (Apr 5, 2013)

Before my first cycle, I was 225lbs and maxed out at about 16oz chicken, a sweet potato, and some asparagus......and I could only do that 3 times a day.  After my first cycle, I had learned how to force feed pounds of beef, cous cous, vegetables, oatmeal, eggs, and just about any other source of carbs/fats/protein I could get my hands on, and that was 6-7 times per day.  Because I learned to eat, I've gained 75lbs and sit at 300 as of 3 days ago.  I'm not obese either.  I've got a belly, but I'm somewhere around 18%bf and very happy.

The point is, moving big weight is awesome and it's why I powerlift competitively, however, the real gains come from eating, not juicing.  I know that's been said a million times and everyone claims to know it, but I'll be damned if 10% of this board actually shovels enough food down their gullet to get freaky big or freaky strong (if those aren't your goals, I understand).

To actually answer your question though, my bench went from 300 to 345, squat from 365 to 455, and deadlift from 405 to 475.


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## R1rider (Apr 5, 2013)

I was 6-2 and 205lbs before my first cycle @ age 25. Ended the cycle around 230lbs

before cycle, natty numbers
My bench was 275 max
dead- 315
squat- 275

First cycle was test e and dbol. Lots of dbol, not enough test but i went up to

bench-315
dead-405 for reps
squat- 365

currently i am 30 and blast and curise. My numbers are ok, kinda at a plateau

bench- 375
dead- 550
squat- 450 

all raw. currently i weigh 254lbs


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## Big Worm (Apr 5, 2013)

Lets see what I can remember.....

I was 265
Bench 315
Deads were around 405
Squat, never did them much before I juiced but 365 or so. Always did leg press and hacks. 

I've been as high as 294, but hang around 285-290
Bench 425, 495 with a reverse band
Squat 615, 720 with chains
Dead 655, 705 or 725 off blocks

I'm not at that strength currently but planning on exceeding it real soon.


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## RISE (Apr 5, 2013)

SAD said:


> Before my first cycle, I was 225lbs and maxed out at about 16oz chicken, a sweet potato, and some asparagus......and I could only do that 3 times a day.  After my first cycle, I had learned how to force feed pounds of beef, cous cous, vegetables, oatmeal, eggs, and just about any other source of carbs/fats/protein I could get my hands on, and that was 6-7 times per day.  Because I learned to eat, I've gained 75lbs and sit at 300 as of 3 days ago.  I'm not obese either.  I've got a belly, but I'm somewhere around 18%bf and very happy.
> 
> The point is, moving big weight is awesome and it's why I powerlift competitively, however, the real gains come from eating, not juicing.  I know that's been said a million times and everyone claims to know it, but I'll be damned if 10% of this board actually shovels enough food down their gullet to get freaky big or freaky strong (if those aren't your goals, I understand).
> 
> To actually answer your question though, my bench went from 300 to 345, squat from 365 to 455, and deadlift from 405 to 475.



Truth.  I'm one of the "hard gainers", and went from 120lbs to 195 lbs naturally in 4-5 years.  I ate me ass off to get there.  Ended up being 15% before I cut down to 180 so I could see my abs.


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

SAD,
i do agree with u on the eating, but a lot of times people want to get strong and not eat a shit ton to gain a bunch of weight.... lean bulk would be one of the times, if one is a PL then it would be totally different, as i will never reach that mountain top in my training, i eat according to my goal,


R1rider,
nice numbers!! man u raised ur bench from 275 to 375, damn and the squas from 275 to 450, 

see my numbers are actually right around ur lower ones at the moment, im gonna go with just my hrt amount until i get my numbers up higher, then cycle on!


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Big Worm said:


> Lets see what I can remember.....
> 
> I was 265
> Bench 315
> ...




damn Bw,

u did pretty good, ur numbers were decent to begin with but yeah nice jump

i do need to ask how ur bench goes that high with a reverse band? (what is it?)

and with squats u add chains and can go up to 720?

if u do deads off blocks does ity raise the weight higher off the ground so u dont have to go down as low as well?  not sure how any of this stuff works really?


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## R1rider (Apr 5, 2013)

j2048b said:


> SAD,
> i do agree with u on the eating, but a lot of times people want to get strong and not eat a shit ton to gain a bunch of weight.... lean bulk would be one of the times, if one is a PL then it would be totally different, as i will never reach that mountain top in my training, i eat according to my goal,
> 
> 
> ...




Yea with hard work, diet, time and some gear anyone can do it. I did it over a period of about 5 years. I didnt really lift seriously before 25. I was more into wrestling/mma. So it was lots of carido, sparing and then some more cardio

Hard work/diet being number 1.


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## Big Worm (Apr 5, 2013)

j2048b said:


> damn Bw,
> 
> u did pretty good, ur numbers were decent to begin with but yeah nice jump
> 
> ...



Those are all ways of over loading. The bands are just giant rubber bands pretty much. You hang it from the top of the cage and at the bottom of the lift the band has tension and takes weight off and then it gradually comes back in and you have all the weight at the top. 

Squat with chains is similar.  You have your bar weight plus the chains.  The chains hang from the bar and as you squat they rest on the floor and when you stand back up you have less weight in the hole and it comes back in gradually. 

Deads off blocks works different ways for different people. Some people it will put them close to their sticking point and without the speed and momentum pulling from the floor. For me it's more of a positioning thing and a good way to overload. I suck at getting to the bar and pulling correctly through the whole lift. 

Typing this on my phone so hard to explain it all. But it's an idea at least.


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## Cashout (Apr 5, 2013)

j2048b said:


> Some say if u can bench, squat and deadlift 1.5 times ur body weight ur considered strong, so i just wanted to ask:
> 
> 
> Just wondering what peoples general lifting poundages where when they first cycled?
> ...



Here is my perspective.

In late summer of 1988 I had just competed in my first show and won the teen state title and the middle weight open class. 

I was on stage at 161 pounds and close to 5% bodyfat - 100% natural.

On Sept 12 1988, I started my first cycle of test (200mg/week)/deca (200mg/week)/anavar (25mg/day) and at the start of that cycle my lifts looked like this...

Flat Bench - 10 reps with 175
Squat - 10 reps with 275
Deadlift - 10 reps with 245

I can't give you 1 rep maxes because I never did them but I did keep notebooks and those numbers are for the week of Sept 12, 1988 on my first sets of each of the listed movements.

On that cycle of 12 weeks, I gaining 24 pounds and my body fat was close to 9% at the end of the cycle. For the week of November 28th, my lifts were...

Flat Bench - 245 for 10 reps
Squat - 365 for 10 reps
Deadlift - 335 for 10 reps.


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Wow cash even in 1988 u were doing 10 reps! Geesh knowledge way above our own even then! 

Great numbers and as u have always shown and said less is more when it comes to aas!

See i wonder if most understand this reasoning? As of late ive read about 4 posts of other people under the age of 30 who have had a hematoma on their livers and at least half of it removed mainly based off the huge amounts of aas they have taken,  

Man nice numbers again cash, but urs were assumed haha


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

And i mean assumed because we all assumed ud be lifting heman weights at the age of 2 to begin with haha

Joking of course, hard work, diet, consistency and dedication all come to mind!


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## Cashout (Apr 5, 2013)

I was fortunate to have the luxury of training in one of the great "bodybuilding gyms" of the time in the mid- to late -80's. There were no powerlifters there so I learned by watch guys like Boyer Coe, Casey Viator, Randy Humphries, and Richard Blank. These were guys who were IFBB Pros or AAU Mr. America competitors. At that age, I just emulated the activities of guys who I saw with physiques I wanted to copy. These guys never did singles or doubles, max lifts or 5x5. It was always 8-12 reps and the "feeling" the weight produced to the muscle not how much was being lifted.







j2048b said:


> Wow cash even in 1988 u were doing 10 reps! G*eesh knowledge way above our own even then!*
> 
> Great numbers and as u have always shown and said less is more when it comes to aas!
> 
> ...


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Cashout said:


> I was fortunate to have the luxury of training in one of the great "bodybuilding gyms" of the time in the mid- to late -80's. There were no powerlifters there so I learned by watch guys like Boyer Coe, Casey Viator, Randy Humphries, and Richard Blank. These were guys who were IFBB Pros or AAU Mr. America competitors. At that age, I just emulated the activities of guys who I saw with physiques I wanted to copy. These guys never did singles or doubles, max lifts or 5x5. It was always 8-12 reps and the "feeling" the weight produced to the muscle not how much was being lifted.



now with that being said do u feel the amounts of aas, or quality was bigger back then? also i have a few friends who lift like powerlifters yet have bb symetrics, nice full muscles and defined, and also compete from time to time in bb shows,  how would one do something like this as it never made sense to me how to lift like a PL yet still have the symetrics of a bb?


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## Cashout (Apr 5, 2013)

j2048b said:


> now with that being said *do u feel the amounts of aas, or quality was bigger back then?* also i have a few friends who lift like powerlifters yet have bb symetrics, nice full muscles and defined, and also compete from time to time in bb shows,  *how would one do something like this as it never made sense to me how to lift like a PL yet still have the symetrics of a bb?*



Are you looking for a rant? You must be.

First Question. Based on what I read here and what I am told from others, the amounts of AAS that guys use today is absolutely  many times greater than what we used in the late 80s and early 90s. A big cycle back then was 500mg of test cyp and 30 mgs of Dbol for 12 weeks. On here, I read about guys using a gram and a half or more of injectables a week regularly. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone using 800 mg of test + 600 Tren + 400 mg Mast + oral and they are 5'11' and weight 220 and have been training for 6 years. IMO, that is freaking retarded. Guys think the drugs are going to do it all for them and they can eat crap, drink, smoke, party, and train like a girl and they should look like Dorian. When it doesn't happen they can't figure out why!

Second Question: You said as PL they "have bb symetrics, nice full muscles and defined, and also compete from time to time in bb shows." That tells me that they are not allowing themselves to become fat and bloated if they are defined and have a good shape. Bodybuilding is about presentation and a quality presentation means being lean and defined. So the guys you are asking about may train in a powerlifiting style but they stay lean and defined like a bodybuilder. That has more to do with diet and less to do with training style. I've seen plenty of powerlifiters who look like they could be bodybuilders - good shape and lean but I would say that is not the norm among PL from what I've observed.


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Cashout said:


> Are you looking for a rant? You must be.
> 
> First Question. Based on what I read here and what I am told from others, the amounts of AAS that guys use today is absolutely  many times greater than what we used in the late 80s and early 90s. A big cycle back then was 500mg of test cyp and 30 mgs of Dbol for 12 weeks. On here, I read about guys using a gram and a half or more of injectables a week regularly. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone using 800 mg of test + 600 Tren + 400 mg Mast + oral and they are 5'11' and weight 220 and have been training for 6 years. IMO, that is freaking retarded. Guys think the drugs are going to do it all for them and they can eat crap, drink, smoke, party, and train like a girl and they should look like Dorian. When it doesn't happen they can't figure out why!
> 
> Second Question: You said as PL they "have bb symetrics, nice full muscles and defined, and also compete from time to time in bb shows." That tells me that they are not allowing themselves to become fat and bloated if they are defined and have a good shape. Bodybuilding is about presentation and a quality presentation means being lean and defined. So the guys you are asking about may train in a powerlifiting style but they stay lean and defined like a bodybuilder. That has more to do with diet and less to do with training style. I've seen plenty of powerlifiters who look like they could be bodybuilders - good shape and lean but I would say that is not the norm among PL from what I've observed.






> that is freaking retarded. Guys think the drugs are going to do it all for them and they can eat crap, drink, smoke, party, and *train like a girl*



haha that had me rollin! 

yeah at the end of my OP, i had commented on some shit going down over the last year or so with others from other forums being young and now having half their livers removed due to HUGE amounts of shit they have taken and most are under 30!! and for what? 

i think my next cycle will be 1 gm test 2x's a week along with 1 grm primo, a bottle of proviron a week, 2 botts of hcg per week and 1 adex 3 times a week along with 50 mlg of viagra a week as well, as 

sound good cash? i hope so because my hospital bills have been way low these last couple of years and i got a lot of health insurance to use up before obomba care is instated. haha jk all!


THAT WAS A JOKE EVERYONE AND NOT INTENDED TO POKE ANYONE THE WRONG WAY!


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## don draco (Apr 5, 2013)

Haven't run my first cycle yet, but plan to in about a month.  

Current lifts:  

Bench: 315

Deadlift : 455

Squat : 365 ( looking to improve this .. )


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## j2048b (Apr 5, 2013)

Nice DD! 

Yeah i need to work on all my lifts, but who im training with doesnt allow us to get 1 rep maxes, instead we work up to a 3 rep max and do some volume with it and add strength, so time will tell where i end up within the next 3 months, hoping to push all my lifts up by a hundred pounds if not more?


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## ccpro (Apr 6, 2013)

When I was 20, 185 benching 275 x 4.  Now 44, 225 benching 275 x 6....I think I could drop 20lbs and still do the weight.  Not trying any heavier, trying to be smart.


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## j2048b (Apr 6, 2013)

Ccpro, nice and yeah its better to be smart


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## Dtownry (Apr 6, 2013)

I will let you all know in about 10 weeks.  Shit is looking good...


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## j2048b (Apr 6, 2013)

Nice dt! So does that mean this is ur first cycle or ur numbers will be bitchen prior to ur cycle? 

I saw ur log on sheiko, i eventually want to try it but only after i get stronger


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## vorcellian (Apr 16, 2013)

Cashout said:


> Here is my perspective.
> 
> In late summer of 1988 I had just competed in my first show and won the teen state title and the middle weight open class.
> 
> ...



Hey Cash, how many cals did you take in on that first cycle?  Did you have a set multiplier for cals/day based on your bodyweight?  I want to make sure I'm eating enough, BUT I want to hit the number perfectly so I stay lean while I gain.  I had a DEXA scan that put my TDEE at 2650 (based on a sedentary lifestyle multiplier of 1.2).  Is +500 enough?  Or do you think that's more for 'natural' bulking?

I've been following your posts for a while, even back when you were on the other forum, and you always seem like one of the sharpest guys around.  You've got two decades of training on me, but all the things you talk about (the way you track your cals, your training, dedication and intensity in bodybuilding and life in general) really resonate with how I've been doing things since I picked up my first weight at 16.


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## Cashout (Apr 16, 2013)

vorcellian said:


> Hey Cash, how many cals did you take in on that first cycle?  Did you have a set multiplier for cals/day based on your bodyweight?  I'm thinking of doing a first cycle of 300mgT/wk, and want to make sure I'm eating enough, BUT I want to hit the number perfectly so I stay lean while I gain.  I had a DEXA scan that put my TDEE at 2650 (based on a sedentary lifestyle multiplier of 1.2).  Is +500 enough?  Or do you think that's more for 'natural' bulking?
> 
> I've been following your posts for a while, even back when you were on the other forum, and you always seem like one of the sharpest guys around.  You've got two decades of training on me, but all the things you talk about (the way you track your cals, your training, dedication and intensity in bodybuilding and life in general) really resonate with how I've been doing things since I picked up my first weight at 16.



I was still in the learning phase in regard to my body at that time but I used the best available source to help me lay out the game plan I used. Dr. Fred Hatfield in his book "A Scientific Approach to Bodybuilding" had a fairly detail section on diet/nutrition. I used that information as my basis. In a nutshell, I hovered close to 3200 cals daily. Copying straight from my notebook for Sept 12th, 1988, it was...

5:00 AM
6 Hard Boiled Egg Whites
1 Cup White Rice with Raisins
1 cup of Skim Milk with Weider Muscle Builder Protein blended with a Banana

8:00 AM
8 oz Baked Chicken Breast
1 Cup White Rice or Large Baked Potato
1/2 Cup of Red Beans or Lima Beans
1 cup of fruit mix

12:00
1 Can Spring Water Packed Tuna
1 Cup White Rice
1 cup of fruit mix

4:00 PM
8 oz Baked Chicken Breast
1 Cup White Rice or Large Baked Potato
1/2 Cup of Red Beans or Lima Beans
1 cup of fruit mix

8:00 PM
6 Hard Boiled Egg Whites
1 Cup White Rice with Raisins
1 cup of Skim Milk with Weider Muscle Builder Protein blended with a Banana

11:00 PM
Plain Rice Cakes with honey
1 cup Skim Milk with Weider Muscle Builder Protein and a banana
1 cup of fruit mix

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is your goal.

Mine was very very specific. I wanted to gain enough muscle to compete at the top of the middle weight class as a body builder. That is very specific. That means that I was shooting to be on stage at 176 and sub 5% body fat. So my diet and training where very specifically geared toward making that happen. So much so that I actually had picture of competitors with similar builds to mine that were in that size/shape/condition to whom I focused on for assessing my progress. Guys like Lee Labrada and Francis Benefatto were my bench marks and I know their measurements so I charted against those know quanties for progress.

Most guys mess up by not getting specific enough about what they are try to accomplish. So, they typical say something like "I want get huge" or something as nebulous as that.

So, to answer your question, I can't tell you if +500 is enough because I have no idea what your goals are.


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## Infantry87 (Apr 17, 2013)

Cashout said:


> I was still in the learning phase in regard to my body at that time but I used the best available source to help me lay out the game plan I used. Dr. Fred Hatfield in his book "A Scientific Approach to Bodybuilding" had a fairly detail section on diet/nutrition. I used that information as my basis. In a nutshell, I hovered close to 3200 cals daily. Copying straight from my notebook for Sept 12th, 1988, it was...
> 
> 5:00 AM
> 6 Hard Boiled Egg Whites
> ...



Hey cash, you have any other names for great books on nutrition for bodybuilding? Ive heard of a few but Ive researched a couple and most have little to none logical research or reasoning...


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## Cashout (Apr 17, 2013)

Infantry87 said:


> Hey cash, you have any other names for great books on nutrition for bodybuilding? Ive heard of a few but Ive researched a couple and most have little to none logical research or reasoning...



Hands down, Hatfield's "Scientific Approach to Bodybuilding" was an all-time great resource. It still is a great basic read. It was published in 1985 and if you get it and read through the chapter on "Drugs" you will be amazed by some of the stuff this guy wrote about back in 1985. He was the first to advocate the use of HCG, Nolva, and Clomid as a form of PCT. Also, great chapters on "Nutrition" and "Holistic Training." Everything he wrote about he backed up with both quantified research and real world "application." Holds a PhD from Temple University in Sports Psychology. He is, in my opinion the most underrated bodybuilding resource in our industry.

I think many of my bodybuilding kin dismiss Hatfield because he was actually a world class power lifter and not a bodybuilder. He set many world records in his day. Many bodybuilders incorrectly assume because he was such a successful power lifter he doesn't know anything about body building. That is a terribly misguided assumption. It has long been my pleasure to call him a friend. In my formative education in bodybuilding, this guy took the time to write very detailed answers to the letters that I sent to him. We didn't have email in 1987 so I had to pen actually letters.


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## vorcellian (Apr 17, 2013)

Cashout said:


> I was still in the learning phase in regard to my body at that time but I used the best available source to help me lay out the game plan I used. Dr. Fred Hatfield in his book "A Scientific Approach to Bodybuilding" had a fairly detail section on diet/nutrition. I used that information as my basis. In a nutshell, I hovered close to 3200 cals daily. Copying straight from my notebook for Sept 12th, 1988, it was...
> 
> 5:00 AM
> 6 Hard Boiled Egg Whites
> ...



Heh, that's a pretty astute answer at the end.  You mind if I PM you?  You're probably inundated with tons of messages so I don't want to overwhelm you if you don't have time.

Also: were you really only getting 6 hours of sleep on that diet?  Or even slightly less, going by the timing of your first and last meals?


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## goodfella (Apr 17, 2013)

Welp, just gunna say it, "I run around a gram of test a week" It is what it is, so BRING ON THE BASHING!


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## Cashout (Apr 17, 2013)

Sure and 6 hours was about right back then. I was training twice a day back then 6 am and 6 pm split sessions 6 days a week. Of course I was also 18 years old and a college freshman too.


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## ken Sass (Apr 17, 2013)

Cashout said:


> Sure and 6 hours was about right back then. I was training twice a day back then 6 am and 6 pm split sessions 6 days a week. Of course I was also 18 years old and a college freshman too.
> how many think cash is a terminator??


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## vorcellian (Apr 17, 2013)

Cashout said:


> Sure and 6 hours was about right back then. I was training twice a day back then 6 am and 6 pm split sessions 6 days a week. Of course I was also 18 years old and a college freshman too.



Christ man, that's INSANE.  I have no idea how your body kept up with all the stress.  6hrs of sleep with TWO training sessions at 18?  I'd be a walking zombie if I got less than 7hrs when I was a freshman


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## oldskool954 (Apr 17, 2013)

ken said:


> Cashout said:
> 
> 
> > Sure and 6 hours was about right back then. I was training twice a day back then 6 am and 6 pm split sessions 6 days a week. Of course I was also 18 years old and a college freshman too.
> ...


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## Cashout (Apr 17, 2013)

vorcellian said:


> Christ man, that's INSANE.  I have no idea how your body kept up with all the stress.  6hrs of sleep with TWO training sessions at 18?  I'd be a walking zombie if I got less than 7hrs when I was a freshman



That was my life from the time I was 18 until 23 - eat, sleep, train, study. That was all I did. No drinking ever, no junk food ever, no drugs (other than test, deca, anavar, winstrol, anadrol, and Eq  ).

I perfected each of those elements in the process to such a degree of efficiency beyond what most can fathom.

Fact, you cannot do that type of training without drugs. Without the drugs you will not recover.


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## vorcellian (Apr 17, 2013)

Cashout said:


> That was my life from the time I was 18 until 23 - eat, sleep, train, study. That was all I did. No drinking ever, no junk food ever, no drugs (other than test, deca, anavar, winstrol, anadrol, and Eq  ).
> 
> I perfected each of those elements in the process to such a degree of efficiency beyond what most can fathom.
> 
> *Fact, you cannot do that type of training without drugs.* Without the drugs you will not recover.



Yeah, I kind of figured that must be the case (especially with just 6hrs of sleep!).  Eat, sleep, train, study is pretty much exactly what I was doing in Uni.  No drinking or junk food, either.  I wasn't training 2x a day, but most weeks I did 6 days of heavy weightlifting.  Eventually, the volume of training caught up to me.  I was training natty the whole time, but wanted to wait until I got closer to my perceived "genetic potential" before doing a first cycle.

You ever read _Muscle_ by Samuel Fussell?  A friend gave it to me my junior year in college and I devoured it in a single day.  It's a great personal account of the type of training and dedication it takes for someone completely zoned in on their goal.  A lot of the things he talks about doing after graduating Oxford have tons of parallels with the way you described your life from 18-23


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## Cashout (Apr 18, 2013)

I've not read that one. Wasn't available for the iPad but Amazon did have used copies. I may have to pick it up.



vorcellian said:


> Yeah, I kind of figured that must be the case (especially with just 6hrs of sleep!).  Eat, sleep, train, study is pretty much exactly what I was doing in Uni.  No drinking or junk food, either.  I wasn't training 2x a day, but most weeks I did 6 days of heavy weightlifting.  Eventually, the volume of training caught up to me.  I was training natty the whole time, but wanted to wait until I got closer to my perceived "genetic potential" before doing a first cycle.
> 
> You ever read _Muscle_ by Samuel Fussell?  A friend gave it to me my junior year in college and I devoured it in a single day.  It's a great personal account of the type of training and dedication it takes for someone completely zoned in on their goal.  A lot of the things he talks about doing after graduating Oxford have tons of parallels with the way you described your life from 18-23


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## vorcellian (Apr 18, 2013)

Cashout said:


> I've not read that one. Wasn't available for the iPad but Amazon did have used copies. I may have to pick it up.



Oh man, you've _*got*_ to check it out.  Not only does it provide a great insight into the mind of a fellow bb'er, but it's also written with great finesse.  The prose is a pleasure to read (Fussell majored in English at Oxford).  You'll probably find yourself relating to a lot of the anecdotes he writes about.  And it's written with surprising candor, so much so that by the end I felt that I knew the author as a friend and cared about what happened to him.

But as a heads up, the book becomes a little depressing at the end.  Fussell got into bodybuilding for the wrong reasons and burned out fast.   

PS: The system says I need "3" posts to PM you, but I've passed that count and it still doesn't let me.  I'm thinking it's a typo/glitch and I will actually need 3*0* before it lets me send PMs


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