# WTH Did my Doc just say?



## Kris_19D (Dec 18, 2020)

So, I had another appointment with my Endocrinologist over at the clinic that I've been going to since learned that my T was in like 75+ year old cancer patient levels, and something weird happened. I have read about it before - but I don't understand how this is actually allowed, so bear with a bit of background. My total went from somewhere in the 200s - low 300s ng/dl, didn't matter morning, afternoon, evening, got enough sleep,wasn't drinking, etc. - it is because of my medications that I have to take and I know this... So, not a problem, I finally found a doctor outside of the VA (unfortunately for me, because I have to pay out the ass for it since the VA isn't covering it even though I obviously had low T) and I've been on 200mg per week - 100mg Monday 100mg Thursday along with anywhere from .25mg to 1.25mg of Arimidex depending on what my doctor feels like giving me... I noticed that my medication tends to crash just about everything in my system, not just my FSH, LH, therefore T etc. but also my lipids and ... Yeah, it's a mess. Anyhow, on with the story - After ten weeks, my doc tested me and I had gone from a terrible 238ng/dl average over the last roughly 18 months to almost 2,400ng/dl at the time of that particular test. I had kind of been taking stuff like DIM and other natural test boosters as I was desperate to get my libido back - I still take them, they don't hurt so what the hell... They apparently jacked this stuff through the freaking roof, though... I couldn't believe it was that high, so my doc wanted to halve my dose, and I told her straight up that wasn't happening, I will just supplement from an UGL and I can get more for less than half of what she charges me just for the freaking visit, so she said, "Oh, no problem we will just keep you on this dose if you are still feeling well." 

Ok, so, onto the next text that got pushed back several times by the COV and all that changed is I noticed sensitivity - which I still have, but it isn't painful so I don't let it bother me so much - in my nipples and a bit of acne on my shoulders especially so I asked for an AI. She gave me Arimidex (I'm charged $8 a freaking PILL... 1mg pill for $8... Insanity, but that's what I get for not breaking the law, right?) at 1mg per week, .5mg on Monday and .5mg on Thursday and I had already split my 1ml dose from 1ml on Mondays to .5ml on Mon and .5ml on Thursday to try to keep my serum levels more even. The next time I was tested, I was at 720ng/dl, a nice reference range TRT dose. I had cut the test boosters for that, but kept the DIM (which I guess means some test booster was present as well, but it is basically just to keep my balls running a bit and I honestly don't know how much that even works, but it seems to be doing something for me at least) and the doc hasn't talked to me again since. Now, I meet with the NP over there and she has been going over my panels. 

The last time I had blood drawn, I specifically had dumped my dose the week prior before getting it pulled because I don't want to argue about my dosages with them, so I decided this time to just take .5ml on Monday literally 7 days before my blood panel - so 100mg Test Cyp - zero test booster, zero DIM, whatever... Just the Arimidex and Test Cyp... Ok, so I felt much better than when I was tested at 720, but it comes back and I get a frantic call from the receptionist (I think? I could hardly understand her) saying my test is SUPER HIGH and I am in danger of having a heart attack bla bla bla, and I say, "ok, give me my levels." She says, "It is at 1,540ng/dl" and I respond, "what is my free T?" She then has to look it up - I don't think she knows much about this and this is why I think it was just maybe a seasonal receptionist or some crap because she had no idea what my levels should be or anything like that. I don't remember the number exactly but it was within the correct percentile so I asked her, just to make a point, "So, what is my SHPG and my percentage of free T to total?" She said she didn't know amazingly - so I gave it to her after calculating it and explained it was within range so I wasn't worried about it. She then said the doctor would be calling me to immediately change my dosage and all this nonsense as I could be getting gynecomastia with my test that high and I had to stop myself from freaking out because I have BDD to begin with, and I am scared to death of gyno, but I just kinda thought through it and asked her what my estradiol was and she said it was within normal range. I said, "Ok, so if it is within normal range, that means I am not over-aromatizing, so what is the issue? How can I get gyno if I am taking the AI at .75mg per week (I since ramped up to 1.25mg per week because, like I said, I am freaked out over gyno so I just wanted to be safe and now I notice my nipples being sensitive a lot of the time but how much of that is in my head? Probably 90% at least...). Long story short on this, I get a call from the NP, NOT my Doc, and she asked how I was feeling and stuff and I explained I feel fine and I asked her why the person who called said I would get gyno and the NP responded she had no idea, my serum levels don't suggest that and being on the AI, that will prevent it - maybe the person who called me didn't know I was on the AI to which I responded that is bullshit, she knew I was, but that's not the point. She asked if I would be comfortable dropping my dose to 150mg once per week, and I said I need to see some level bloodwork before I make _any_ change because it was over 2,000ng/dl, then it was 700ng/dl, now it is just outside reference range - clearly still super-physiological but I'm back to lifting so why not make the most of being 100% legal since I'll be paying the exact same for 150mg/week of test that I will for 200mg/week of test or even more actually... So, she says this next time we will talk about it after getting my serum concentrations normalized. I thanked her and scheduled my next appointment, which just came to pass on Monday.

*IF YOU HAVE TUNED OUT - THIS IS WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING*. 
I go in for my appointment and I had only taken about 65mg of Test the week prior so I figured my serum levels would be right around 1,000 or 1,100 - just hoping and guessing... I am shooting for about 1,250 but I think 1,100 is more than likely. Since I've not gotten those back yet, I get prescribed my 200mg dose for another 10 weeks and I ask for more Arimidex (since they are freaking bending me over for the price... I figured they wouldn't care) and she asks why and I explain I notice sensitivity and I have been noticing, I would just like to have more in case it is especially sensitive for a few days in a row I will take another .25mg or something to just lower the amount of aromatization and thus lower e2 and less active inputs to - you guys know the drill, I don't need to explain to y'all LOL... So, she won't give it to me because it is "pointless" so I have to order it from somewhere - GREAT... I am stuck on the 1mg per week of Arimidex from them and I really don't know much about ordering stuff especially from UGL or any sites period because... Yeah, I personally think most of them are likely scams where they could be selling anything from freaking cooking oil to u/d or o/d supplements. So, I leave and I go home and pin my normal dose and that's that, right? WRONG - I get a surprise call from my Doc, keep in mind haven't spoken to her in about... I think six months? So, she asks if I would consider lowing my testosterone to 150mg per week if she were to give me.... *DRUM ROLL PLEASE* Nandrolone! I said... Uhmm.... Let me do some research (thus typing to you guys on here right now) - She didn't say what the dose was, but if I had to guess it won't be 200mg or anything like that... Maybe 100mg? I don't know... I was about to ask "how about Anavar?" LOL... I don't know what to do... I have heard about HRT clinics doing this, but I wasn't expecting this... I am not sure how much more they will try to screw me on prices if I do this, but what would y'all do? Would you take the Nandrolone and ask for more of the AI due to Nandrolone's tendency (or possibility) to interact and cause greater aromatization? Or would you push for injectable or oral Anavar at even 20mg per day? I much prefer injectable because I take enough medications already so I really would rather not have something messing with my liver enzymes and having to be processed by my kidneys, know what I mean? 

I apologize for the massive amount of rambling - but thank you very much for reading and I look forward to reading your responses!

*TL;DR* - My doc offered to add Nandrolone to my HRT regimen if I lowered my weekly test to 150mg or 100mg from 200mg. What would you do and how much would you ask for? Would you push for Anavar instead? Please, give me your opinions! Tell me if you think I'm an idiot! Whatever you'd like! 

Sincerely,
Kris


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## creekrat (Dec 18, 2020)

First of all, you are bouncing all over the damn place.  You need a baseline.  I would suggest doing only the prescribed protocol of the test and AI for about 6 weeks and getting retested.  This will take out the other test boosters and whatnot you were taking out of the equation.  Talk with your Dr as they seem pretty cool.  I have come to realize that if you go into the Dr and you are knowledgeable on the subject you are there for then they tend to be more open.  Once you get those 6 week bloods I would stay at the same protocol for another 4-6 weeks and have blood pulled again to compare.  This should give you and your Dr a solid picture of what your base dosage should be.  Adjust as needed from there and then retest another 4-6 weeks out if need be. 

After you have your baseline you can then play with other things that may help you as you feel necessary and you'll know when your Dr wants to pull blood and you can back down to the baseline for the amount of time needed so that when they test you your levels are in line with what y'all came up with for your baseline.  Remember, for TRT more isn't always better.  It sounds like you have a tendency to aromatize at a decent rate so you could feel great at a lower dose that would keep your total test lower but your Free would be close to the same because you would be aromatizing at a lower rate. 

Seth Feroce said it wounderfully.  "This is your science experiment with your body because no 2 people react the same.  Get yourself a notebook and keep fukking notes on that shit"


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## DF (Dec 18, 2020)

The test booster is a waste. Those things are crap.  You are on exogenous test.  This will tank your LH and FSH (it's normal for this to happen).  Adex will mess with your lipids.  The goal is to take as little as possible to keep your E2 in range.  Your test range will be all over the place depending on how close you have blood work from your last pin.  

IDK about some of these clinics.  I do love some deca, but you need to get your test levels straight before adding anything else to your protocol.  We have lots of info here.  Take time to educate yourself on trt.  We have plenty of knowledgeable people here.  I've been on trt going on 11 years.  Keep asking questions.... Best of luck!

Also you can get Adex from an online Pharma cheap.


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## snake (Dec 18, 2020)

What Creek and DF said.

You got a lot going on there bud. Drop the idea of adding anything in other then Test and the Adex.


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## dragon1952 (Dec 18, 2020)

I might suggest using more paragraphs...that was brutal to read :^ / You can go and get private blood work done for not much $$$ and maybe see exactly where your T is at on the dosage you actually want to use and then go from there because now you don't really know what it is, or your E2 for that matter. Also, always ask for the specific result and don't go by them saying 'within range', you'll get a much better idea what's going on.


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## SFGiants (Dec 18, 2020)

dragon1952 said:


> I might suggest using more paragraphs...that was brutal to read :^ / You can go and get private blood work done for not much $$$ and maybe see exactly where your T is at on the dosage you actually want to use and then go from there because now you don't really know what it is, or your E2 for that matter. Also, always ask for the specific result and don't go by them saying 'within range', you'll get a much better idea what's going on.



I refuse to read illiterate blocks


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## BigSwolePump (Dec 19, 2020)

I wouldn't read that block of letters if you put a pair of titties in the middle of it.

Give a summary for godsakes.


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## Kris_19D (Dec 19, 2020)

My mind has been a mess since you can see from the previous post. Also, I've not been able to talk about this with anyone else who might have any idea what I am dealing with, so it is kind of exciting and I felt it best to put out as much detail as possible. Maybe a bit more order would be better. 


My big problem is this - I always felt like the higher dosage would be better, I realize now that isn't true, but it is hard to make myself believe that. It appears that, at 200mg/week of Test cyp, after a year, my total is over 2,000ng/dl. I am not sure how long the half-life is exactly, but I thought it was about 7 days so 35 days to clear, roughly? I have just recently started to try to drop to 160mg/week to see if I can get more normal results since I don't want to stay on a dose that is causing too much aromatization that I have to take Adex at 1mg or 1.25mg/week.


My big question is this: My doctor offered to supplement my test with Nandrolone - that would obviously cause a larger aromatization issue because of its effects on Test, right? I was surprised that I actually was offered this, but mainly because of (what I thought were) its negative reputation as a pure bodybuilding drug (apparently this is completely incorrect the more research I've done on HRT rather than just pure lean tissue gains from compounds etc.). 


I have read some say that 100mg/week of Test is all they take, some 100mg/week of Test and 20mg/day of Anavar, and others 100mg/week and Xmg/week of Nandrolone - All of this on HRT of course, not supplementing from outside sources. I've also heard some people saying they are on over 200mg/week of Test cyp for an HRT dose... With that being said, what are y'all on for the most part? I know everyone is different, and I'm eager to learn more about this so as to not make any more mistakes. 


I would really like to learn what you guys think is a good dose of testosterone given the issues I seem to have - that might all be mental for all I know since I know some guys are on maybe 2mg of Adex a week and have no further extra sensitivity and such on 200mg/week - and because of the BDD and then even more due to the inherent fear I have of gyno, I am torn between wanting a larger dose - largely out of ignorance previously - and being scared to drop my dose to feel worse, and then wanting to feel much better. 


So, the blood panels are much less of an issue, I just wanted to add them for more information rather than less so anyone who cared could see. I would love to be able to get Adex for cheaper - the Test also but the weird part I had mentioned is that my doc, for whatever reason, will _not_ write me a prescription for anything. They have everything in-house at the clinic and give it out from there for part of their (fairly high in my opinion, but obviously I'm quite ignorant of this so forgive that, please) fee. 


Thanks very much for your advice, guys - and this is way off topic, but is there a way to create actual paragraphs? Maybe because I use quick reply all the time, I don't see all the features here - but I mean... I can just space as I do and I cannot seem to tab in, so I will just double-space paragraphs from now on so it is more obvious. I look forward to any further feedback/advice. 


BTW - I have been working out with weights again only for a few months that I've been feeling better. I've made some gains, but that would have been almost impossible not to as I was super skinny fat at about 6'0 and not even 145lbs, now ~165lbs again. Before suffering the injuries I did while in the Army, I worked out at least 5 days a week and was pretty muscular for an average guy - from the look of the guys who post here, not in comparison to any of y'all, but you get the idea. 


Sincere Thanks,
Kris


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## Kris_19D (Dec 19, 2020)

DF said:


> The test booster is a waste. Those things are crap.  You are on exogenous test.  This will tank your LH and FSH (it's normal for this to happen).  Adex will mess with your lipids.  The goal is to take as little as possible to keep your E2 in range.  Your test range will be all over the place depending on how close you have blood work from your last pin.
> 
> IDK about some of these clinics.  I do love some deca, but you need to get your test levels straight before adding anything else to your protocol.  We have lots of info here.  Take time to educate yourself on trt.  We have plenty of knowledgeable people here.  I've been on trt going on 11 years.  Keep asking questions.... Best of luck!
> 
> Also you can get Adex from an online Pharma cheap.



I appreciate that very much! I am glad to know that y'all have so much experience, because I am really lost in most of this stuff... I don't know if it is my hormones being kinda screwed or if it is just that I am anxious naturally; however, I have that thing I talked about earlier with wanting to be on a high dose because of ignorance I assumed "higher is better" and that type of thing... I didn't understand why, after a year, I would start having sensitivity like that after the acne I had has cleared up and all of that. 


The only reason I learned about DIM at all was because the doc actually offered to sell me that to take along with the Test I am given by her at the clinic, so even though I always thought those were basically bullshit, I assumed that maybe that one did something at least to maybe even keep some sort of endogenous production of hormone going - mostly I care about my fertility, because my wife and I want to have a family, and I finally got the raise I needed to do so. 


Thank you, though! I really appreciate your input along with *Creek *and also *snake*. I hope to learn a lot more from y'all as I go along. 


Sincerely,
Kris


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