# Tricep pushbacks



## RISE (May 28, 2022)

A fucking useless exercise.  I thought this was established years ago, yet I'm seeing everyone do them again.  This is an embarrassment to this nation.  Remember the good old days when we would do heavy ass skull crushers while screaming at ya boys ball sack who was standing over you helping you push out every last rep?  Now we're imitating jerking a dude off from behind while also taking it from behind.  This is a result of all the plastics in our bodies fucking with our hormones and turning us into bitches.  Soon we'll be a nation of testicleless bitchs lining up to take a group tricep kickback class at the local planet fitness.  Thanks Joe Biden.


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## PZT (May 28, 2022)

You can do skullies and kick backs doh


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## RiR0 (May 28, 2022)

Yeah the tricep kick back, hex press(standing and laying), sideways chest press, fucking leg bands, the stupid lat pull down where you hold one side the bar down and do a pulldown with the other side, the stupid fucking curl where you use one dumbbell or a plate and curl it with both arms, the v handles for anything, the vertical leg press, the smith machine press where idiots lay under the bar and use the v handles, using the smith machine as a leg press.
I’m sure there’s more but these all fucking useless


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## CJ (May 28, 2022)

Even worse.... Swinging tricep kickbacks. 😂


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## CohibaRobusto (May 28, 2022)

RISE said:


> A fucking useless exercise.  I thought this was established years ago, yet I'm seeing everyone do them again.  This is an embarrassment to this nation.  Remember the good old days when we would do heavy ass skull crushers while screaming at ya boys ball sack who was standing over you helping you push out every last rep?  Now we're imitating jerking a dude off from behind while also taking it from behind.  This is a result of all the plastics in our bodies fucking with our hormones and turning us into bitches.  Soon we'll be a nation of testicleless bitchs lining up to take a group tricep kickback class at the local planet fitness.  Thanks Joe Biden.


These are the quality posts I come here for.


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## Skullcrusher (May 28, 2022)

When I did DB Kickbacks, I figured out that it was easier to lock my elbows in place if I laid chest down on my bench. Kinda hard on the ball sack without a cushion for cozy cotton comfort.

There are too many ways to fuck it up and too few ways to get it right. Target is the long head of the triceps, which is perfect if you just did a bunch of bench pressing that mostly hits the other 2 heads.







Recently I learned that almost all triceps extensions effect the lower part of lats which is good if you're healthy, bad if your back is fucked up like mine.

So I found 2 variations that do not hit lats at all.

First one treats your calves like stabilizer muscles which I did not like...









						ExRx.net : Cable Bent-over Triceps Extension (with rope attachment)
					






					exrx.net
				




Not so great i you work on your feet all day.

This is the one I have been doing now which feels pretty damn good...









						ExRx.net : Cable Kneeling Triceps Extension
					






					exrx.net
				




It reminds me of preacher curls for biceps, very isolated. First time I did them, I had to go light and still ended up sore. Second time I was able to add more weight and did not get sore. Overcome and adapt I guess.

But for all you healthy fuckers, you can just do:

120 lb Rope Triceps Extensions = 135
140 lb V-Bar Triceps Extensions = 132
115 lb Weighted Dip = 124








						Inside the Muscles: Best Chest and Triceps Exercises
					

Twenty different chest and triceps are put to the EMG test. Here’s which ones came on on top.




					www.t-nation.com


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## Butch_C (May 28, 2022)

RISE said:


> Soon we'll be a nation of testicleless bitchs lining up to take a group tricep kickback class at the local planet fitness.


Isn't that class right after the hip circle class, but before they bring the donuts. Asking for a friend.


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## CJ (May 28, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> When I did DB Kickbacks, I figured out that it was easier to lock my elbows in place if I laid chest down on my bench. Kinda hard on the ball sack without a cushion for cozy cotton comfort.
> 
> There are too many ways to fuck it up and too few ways to get it right. Target is the long head of the triceps, which is perfect if you just did a bunch of bench pressing that mostly hits the other 2 heads.
> 
> ...


Probably a typo, but kickbacks target the SHORT head of the triceps. But the problem is its its force curve, there's no tension when the muscle is stretched, which is where the greatest potential is for growth.

I much prefer doing cables for this exercise, where you can do a mechanical drop set. Step back from the machine, and it's harder when your elbows get close to lock out. When you fail, step in and the same exercise becomes harder under stretch.

Or just do dips where it's easier to progressively overload them.


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## Skullcrusher (May 28, 2022)

CJ said:


> Probably a typo, but kickbacks target the SHORT head of the triceps. But the problem is its its force curve, there's no tension when the muscle is stretched, which is where the greatest potential is for growth.
> 
> I much prefer doing cables for this exercise, where you can do a mechanical drop set. Step back from the machine, and it's harder when your elbows get close to lock out. When you fail, step in and the same exercise becomes harder under stretch.
> 
> Or just do dips where it's easier to progressively overload them.


Not a typo, chart I posted is from ACE fitness (a long time ago when I was just getting started)








						ACE Study Identifies Best Triceps Exercises
					






					www.acefitness.org
				




They show a woman and an older dude doing them, which would explain the low EMG numbers!

Really they are all triceps extensions for the most part, same movement pattern.

Hard to find triceps lifts that are not extensions. Close grip, dips...maybe a few others.

Here is a different article...








						The Best Long Head Triceps Exercises for Thicker, Stronger Arms
					

Best long head triceps exercises to add mass to your arms by concentrating on the long head of your triceps. These are the best exercises...




					fitnessvolt.com


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## RISE (May 28, 2022)

CJ said:


> Probably a typo, but kickbacks target the SHORT head of the triceps. But the problem is its its force curve, there's no tension when the muscle is stretched, which is where the greatest potential is for growth.
> 
> I much prefer doing cables for this exercise, where you can do a mechanical drop set. Step back from the machine, and it's harder when your elbows get close to lock out. When you fail, step in and the same exercise becomes harder under stretch.
> 
> Or just do dips where it's easier to progressively overload them.


Kickbacks on a cable are the only way they should be performed.  There is very limited tension on the tri through 3/4 of the exercise and no stretch when using a db.  On a cable tension is on the muscle 100% of the time.


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## RISE (May 28, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> Isn't that class right after the hip circle class, but before they bring the donuts. Asking for a friend.


Yes.  The donuts are gnarly af as well.  At least from what I heard...


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## Achillesking (May 28, 2022)

Man just finished a killer tri work out tricep kickbacks and dips off the bench, fuckin massive horse shoe tricep.


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## RISE (May 28, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Yeah the tricep kick back, hex press(standing and laying), sideways chest press, fucking leg bands, the stupid lat pull down where you hold one side the bar down and do a pulldown with the other side, the stupid fucking curl where you use one dumbbell or a plate and curl it with both arms, the v handles for anything, the vertical leg press, the smith machine press where idiots lay under the bar and use the v handles, using the smith machine as a leg press.
> I’m sure there’s more but these all fucking useless


Not gonna lie, if the curl you're talking about is the one where you grab each end of one side of the dumbbell (palms suppine) and raise it like a close grip upright row (elbows flared out)...I've been doing those for years.  Kills my bis like no other curl.  I call them concentration drag curls.


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## RISE (May 28, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Man just finished a killer tri work out tricep kickbacks and dips off the bench, fuckin massive horse shoe tricep.


Ditch the kickbacks and do a one arm db tri extention on an incline.  You're welcome.


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## RiR0 (May 28, 2022)

RISE said:


> Not gonna lie, if the curl you're talking about is the one where you grab each end of one side of the dumbbell (palms suppine) and raise it like a close grip upright row (elbows flared out)...I've been doing those for years.  Kills my bis like no other curl.  I call them concentration drag curls.


Yep that’s it. Just do regular bicep curls because they’ll actually cause growth. Burn and pump aren’t indicative of growth. I could get a pump with no weights. 

Those aren’t drag curls.


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## Achillesking (May 28, 2022)

RISE said:


> Ditch the kickbacks and do a one arm db tri extention on an incline.  You're welcome.


Can't do it bro the tricep kickback n hex press just blow my tri up man. Fuckin massive. Tricep like a t bone steak slapped on my arm from the kick backs


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## Achillesking (May 28, 2022)

Ok everyone serious in the thread today . Kick backs are trash so close grip skill crush behind the head db ext


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## RISE (May 28, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Yep that’s it. Just do regular bicep curls because they’ll actually cause growth. Burn and pump aren’t indicative of growth. I could get a pump with no weights.
> 
> Those aren’t drag curls.


They're not drag curls, but they are performed in the same plane as drag curls, and have the form of a concentration curl, hence why I gave them that name.


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## RISE (May 28, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Can't do it bro the tricep kickback n hex press just blow my tri up man. Fuckin massive. Tricep like a t bone steak slapped on my arm from the kick backs


I did kickbacks for a week and my tri's were shaped like vaginas.


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## Achillesking (May 28, 2022)

RISE said:


> I did kickbacks for a week and my tri's were shaped like vaginas.


I never seen a vagina so I'm not familiar


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## CJ (May 28, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Not a typo, chart I posted is from ACE fitness (a long time ago when I was just getting started)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then by their "logic" ACE must think preacher curls focus of the long head of the biceps too, which we all know isn't true. 

ACE is 100% wrong, it's called active insufficiency in biarticular muscles. 









						Understanding Active and Passive Insufficiency
					

Understanding active and passive insufficiency: The concepts of how multi-joint muscles are limited when fully shortened or lengthened.




					www.nfpt.com
				








						Active and Passive Insufficiency
					

Original Editor -Innocent Abugu




					www.physio-pedia.com
				




And from your favorite exercise source... 








						ExRx.net : Triceps Brachii
					






					exrx.net


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## RISE (May 28, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I never seen a vagina so I'm not familiar


I'll take a pic of my tris, check your messages


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## presser (May 28, 2022)

RISE said:


> A fucking useless exercise.  I thought this was established years ago, yet I'm seeing everyone do them again.  This is an embarrassment to this nation.  Remember the good old days when we would do heavy ass skull crushers while screaming at ya boys ball sack who was standing over you helping you push out every last rep?  Now we're imitating jerking a dude off from behind while also taking it from behind.  This is a result of all the plastics in our bodies fucking with our hormones and turning us into bitches.  Soon we'll be a nation of testicleless bitchs lining up to take a group tricep kickback class at the local planet fitness.  Thanks Joe Biden.


excuse sir this is in the porn section


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## RiR0 (May 28, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> I never seen a vagina so I'm not familiar


Sometimes I tuck my dick and…. Wait a minute


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## TODAY (May 28, 2022)

My favorite is when old men wearing slacks and loafers use the pad on the assisted pull-up machine to do tricep pushdowns


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## RiR0 (May 28, 2022)

TODAY said:


> My favorite is when old men wearing slacks and loafers use the pad on the assisted pull-up machine to do tricep pushdowns


I’m only 37


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## Achillesking (May 28, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’m only 37


lol at this


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## TODAY (May 28, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’m only 37


Do you blow-dry your scrotum in the locker room


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## Achillesking (May 28, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Sometimes I tuck my dick and…. Wait a minute


Mine too short too tuck....but my wife says it's the biggest she ever seen. She def not lying right.....right?!?!😢


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## Badleroybrown (May 28, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Ok everyone serious in the thread today . Kick backs are trash so close grip skill crush behind the head db ext


Bro did these today for the first time in a long time. Behind db ext..
After rope pd.
Blew my triceps up..
They will be a new staple..

Started light with 5 pnd db. And worked my way up to 12.5..
One day I want to be like you..

No really fucking awesome.


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## Badleroybrown (May 28, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Do you blow-dry your scrotum in the locker room


I alway blow dry my taint… keeps the moister away. Then I have a stick of airade extra dry and slather it on..
Fresh balls all day..


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## Achillesking (May 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Bro did these today for the first time in a long time. Behind db ext..
> After rope pd.
> Blew my triceps up..
> They will be a new staple..
> ...


You did single arm? Add in heavy double arm


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## Butch_C (May 29, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Mine too short too tuck....but my wife says it's the biggest she ever seen. She def not lying right.....right?!?!😢


In this case just stretch and pull your scrotum up and over it, tape in this position and your nuts become the camel toe. Don't ask me how I know.


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## Badleroybrown (May 29, 2022)

@Butch_C @THE gym..


Sorry for the guy. Could not find a better pic.😂😂😂🤙


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## Achillesking (May 29, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> In this case just stretch and pull your scrotum up and over it, tape in this position and your nuts become the camel toe. Don't ask me how I know.


Bro my Fuckin nuts and bag are literally non existent


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## Butch_C (May 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> @Butch_C @THE gym..
> View attachment 22860
> 
> Sorry for the guy. Could not find a better pic.😂😂😂🤙


Hey I sent you that pic in confidence! I get no respect I tell ya! You told me you loved my mangina!


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## Butch_C (May 29, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Bro my Fuckin nuts and bag are literally non existent


I forgot we don't all have old man nuts. And the aas have shrunk the ones that did.


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## Badleroybrown (May 29, 2022)

Achillesking said:


> Bro my Fuckin nuts and bag are literally non existent


Nuts are overrated..
My wife just sucks in the hanging skin nowadays..
🤔🤔


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Then by their "logic" ACE must think preacher curls focus of the long head of the biceps too, which we all know isn't true.
> 
> ACE is 100% wrong, it's called active insufficiency in biarticular muscles.
> 
> ...


I know you know a lot of stuff, A LOT of stuff.

Mad respect.

This time I respectfully disagree.

You have said that before with the long head and I was like okay whatever.

God bless you sir.

Um...biceps?


			https://acewebcontent.azureedge.net/certifiednews/images/article/pdfs/ACE%20BicepsStudy.pdf
		


What about exrx?


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I know you know a lot of stuff, A LOT of stuff.
> 
> Mad respect.
> 
> ...


If you choose to disregard human anatomy and kinesiology, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you over basic stuff.


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> If you choose to disregard human anatomy and kinesiology, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you over basic stuff.


Not trying to argue sir, just trying to understand what you are saying...


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Not trying to argue sir, just trying to understand what you are saying...


A biarticular muscle crosses two joints, such as the long head of the triceps. 

For it to be trained effectively, one end has to be under stretch while the other end goes through the normal concentric and eccentric movement pattern. 

When your arms are by your sides, the tricep at the shoulder joint is shortened, so exercises like kickbacks and rope pressdowns CAN NOT train the long head effectively. Those exercises emphasize the medial and lateral heads. 

To train the long head efficiently, the arm MUST be out in front of you to overhead. This puts the long head at a stretch at the shoulder joint, while the tricep flexes and extends the elbow joint. Exercises like skullcrushers and overhead extensions are great movements for the long head.


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> A biarticular muscle crosses two joints, such as the long head of the triceps.
> 
> For it to be trained effectively, one end has to be under stretch while the other end goes through the normal concentric and eccentric movement pattern.
> 
> ...


What?

Help me understand biarticular...first time I am hearing that word.

Actually, where did you get that kickbacks will NOT train the long head effectively?

I'm all ears...


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> What?
> 
> Help me understand biarticular...first time I am hearing that word.
> 
> ...


I just explained to you what a biarticular muscle is. 

And if you read the links in the earlier post of mine, they explain why they need to be trained in a certain way. 

This isn't anything new.


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> I just explained to you what a biarticular muscle is.
> 
> And if you read the links in the earlier post of mine, they explain why they need to be trained in a certain way.
> 
> This isn't anything new.


Ok, just judging from that first link...

I have never understood insufficiency.

I just remember that term thrown around with DB Incline Curls.

I am not opposed to the idea that maybe you know something I don't....


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Ok, just judging from that first link...
> 
> I have never understood insufficiency.
> 
> ...


It's why we do exercises like preacher curls, lying leg curls, leg extensions, sissy squats, etc... 

Biarticular muscles are just a bit more nuanced. Nothing crazy, but sometimes we want them being the prime mover, other times we want them to get out of the way.


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## Jonjon (May 29, 2022)

What is a tricep pushback? You talking about push downs? Like v bar or rope push downs?


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Jonjon said:


> What is a tricep pushback? You talking about push downs? Like v bar or rope push downs?


Kick backs


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## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> @Butch_C @THE gym..
> View attachment 22860
> 
> Sorry for the guy. Could not find a better pic.😂😂😂🤙


I need that camel toe in my life.... STAT!


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## BrotherIron (May 29, 2022)

Why not do kickbacks standing away using a cable? That keeps constant tension on the triceps and do them tempo as a way to increase time under tension. It's a not a builder for me but a great movement for a single round (3 sets with only 10breaths in betw sets) as a finisher.


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## Achillesking (May 29, 2022)

BrotherIron said:


> Why not do kickbacks standing away using a cable? That keeps constant tension on the triceps and do them tempo as a way to increase time under tension. It's a not a builder for me but a great movement for a single round (3 sets with only 10breaths in betw sets) as a finisher.


This is only acceptable way of doing kick backs but I would do burn out sets


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## Rot-Iron66 (May 29, 2022)

kickbacks are a cute little exercise for those who "work out".


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

So now I cannot post any info without it being cock blocked by UG nazis.

Duly noted.


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> So now I cannot post any info without it being cock blocked by UG nazis.
> 
> Duly noted.


You can post correct information


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You can post correct information


I always post correct information. It's assholes like you that like to object to reality just to fucking argue about something. Go lick a chode.


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I always post correct information. It's assholes like you that like to object to reality just to fucking argue about something. Go lick a chode.


Apparently you don’t. You’re not educated enough to understand the correct information from the incorrect information. 
Go cry more or you know actually stop being a weak whiney bitch and be grateful that you’ve learned something


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Not a typo, chart I posted is from ACE fitness (a long time ago when I was just getting started)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Correct information like here? ALWAYS?


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Correct information like here? ALWAYS?


Exactly, I trust the strings of letters after their names more than assholes like you.


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Exactly, I trust the strings of letters after their names more than assholes like you.


Because you’re too stupid to actually comprehend or understand the information. 
It’s called appeal to authority and dumbasses do it all the time
How are you at elite status on a bb board when you don’t even understand basic biomechanics


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

My favorite snippets from that ridiculous article... 

*The Bottom Line*
You can quickly and effectively tone and strengthen the triceps using triangle push-ups, triceps kickbacks and dips.

"Essentially, all three exercises could be used interchangeably.”

Btw @Skullcrusher, EMG activity only shows whether a muscle fiber was recruited or not, not how HARD it worked. If you can't overload a muscle because of a poor exercise pattern or force curve, EMG is basically meaningless.


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

You fucking both suck ass.

Now I hate it here.


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> You fucking both suck ass.
> 
> Now I hate it here.


Sounds like my wife when she mentioned the blood type diet to me


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Sounds like my wife when she mentioned the blood type diet to me


I hope you die.


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> You fucking both suck ass.
> 
> Now I hate it here.


Fine, 💩 post me for telling you the limitations of EMG. Guess you don't want to learn. 🤷‍♂️


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Sounds like my wife when she mentioned the blood type diet to me


The WHAT?!? 😳😳😳


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Fine, 💩 post me for telling you the limitations of EMG. Guess you don't want to learn. 🤷‍♂️


I was willing to learn but you made no valid points, showed no evidence.

I gave you a chance to convince me against what the phD's said. Not convinced sorry.


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

Typical fucking libtards that fucking make up shit and call it reality.


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I was willing to learn but you made no valid points, showed no evidence.
> 
> I gave you a chance to convince me against what the phD's said. Not convinced sorry.


Then good luck to you in your training. I wish you the best.


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Then good luck to you in your training. I wish you the best.


Decided not to post anymore. I could post 20 more articles that all say DB kickbacks hit the long head of the triceps but what would be the point. You have your mind made up and I don't like to argue.


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Decided not to post anymore. I could post 20 more articles that all say DB kickbacks hit the long head of the triceps but what would be the point. You have your mind made up and I don't like to argue.


Dude, come on, seriously. 

The article you linked has diamond pushups having 60% more EMG activation than close grip bench presses or skullcrushers 

Think logically for a second, would you EVER tell someone that diamond pushups are a better muscle building exercise than CGBP or Skullcrushers? 

I'm not arguing the EMG data, but EMG is only a measurement of activation, not of force or muscle building potential.


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Decided not to post anymore. I could post 20 more articles that all say DB kickbacks hit the long head of the triceps but what would be the point. You have your mind made up and I don't like to argue.


And I linked several things showing you otherwise.


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Dude, come on, seriously.
> 
> The article you linked has diamond pushups having 60% more EMG activation than close grip bench presses or skullcrushers
> 
> ...


Yeah ok now you make sense...somewhat.

I specifically mentioned that it was an old dude and a woman 

The EMG numbers are lower because they are probably not using much weight.

The T Nation article confirms how good CGBP and Skullcrushers are for triceps.

2 different EMG studies. Do you need a third, because there is one.

I agree that muscle activation is not the only consideration for hypertrophy, there are many other things to consider. But it is good to activate the muscles as much as possible and it's good to know which lifts do it better than others.


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## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I agree that muscle activation is not the only consideration for hypertrophy, there are many other things to consider. But it is good to activate the muscles as much as possible and it's good to know which lifts do it better than others.



Yes, and then you go next level thinking....

Which exercises allow me to overload the muscle, thus causing a stimulus to grow and adapt? Pushups or Benchpresses? 🤔

Which exercises match the force curve of the muscles being trained, so I can effectively train them in the best way to grow? Kickbacks or Skullcrushers? 🤔


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Yes, and then you go next level thinking....
> 
> Which exercises allow me to overload the muscle, thus causing a stimulus to grow and adapt? Pushups or Benchpresses? 🤔
> 
> Which exercises match the force curve of the muscles being trained, so I can effectively train them in the best way to grow? Kickbacks or Skullcrushers? 🤔


Heavy skullcrushers made my fucking elbows hurt. DB kickbacks did not. Maybe I'm just fucking old but whatever.

As far as weight, it's comparable to how you do not need as much weight for DB Lateral Raises as you do for BB Upright Row.

Force curve? I don't know. But I do know that kickbacks are a fuller ROM than skullcrushers.

This guy did them...







...but yeah he probably doesn't know shit about building muscle either.


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Heavy skullcrushers made my fucking elbows hurt. DB kickbacks did not. Maybe I'm just fucking old but whatever.
> 
> As far as weight, it's comparable to how you do not need as much weight for DB Lateral Raises as you do for BB Upright Row.
> 
> ...


So you think that’s what built his triceps?
Have seen how they trained back then? 
No they didn’t understand a whole lot about training


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## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

@Skullcrusher lets see the physique that you’ve built. Let’s see what tricep kick backs built


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## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So you think that’s what built his triceps?
> Have seen how they trained back then?
> No they didn’t understand a whole lot about training


I know it's not the ONLY thing that built his triceps. Not debating that.

What they did worked though. Yes I have watched the original Pumping Iron quite a few times.

Apparently this guy did not think they were too bad either...


----------



## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> @Skullcrusher lets see the physique that you’ve built. Let’s see what tricep kick backs built


You will. I need a cut first so that the striations are more visible. But I did do a lot of pushdowns too.


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I know it's not the ONLY thing that built his triceps. Not debating that.
> 
> What they did worked though. Yes I have watched the original Pumping Iron quite a few times.
> 
> Apparently this guy did not think they were too bad either...


That guy also uses hex presses. Idc who does what. It doesn’t make it effective


----------



## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Heavy skullcrushers made my fucking elbows hurt. DB kickbacks did not. Maybe I'm just fucking old but whatever.


It's a common thing, ever try using DBs with a nuetral grip while sitting on a slight incline bench? It's helped many. Many don't do them for awhile, then come back to them. If that doesn't work, then don't do them.


Skullcrusher said:


> As far as weight, it's comparable to how you do not need as much weight for DB Lateral Raises as you do for BB Upright Row.


BB Upright Rows are a better mass builder.


Skullcrusher said:


> Force curve? I don't know. But I do know that kickbacks are a fuller ROM than skullcrushers.


If so, you're doing your skullcrushers wrong. And skulls are harder when the muscle is stretched, and has tension throughout the entire ROM if done correctly, unlike kickbacks.


Skullcrusher said:


> This guy did them...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can post a pic of almost every modern day bodybuilder who DOESN'T do kickbacks, and they all DRAWF arnold in size. So what's your point exactly? 🤔


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> You will. I need a cut first so that the striations are more visible. But I did do a lot of pushdowns too.


Bullshit. You deleted the one time you accidentally posted a pic right?


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

A couple people actually saw the one time you posted a pic before you deleted it. 😂 
They remember


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

😂 now candycrusher is shit posting me randomly 😂 
You realize shit posting doesn’t make me wrong and doesn’t make you look like you train correct? 
@Skullcrusher


----------



## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> 😂 now candycrusher is shit posting me randomly 😂
> You realize shit posting doesn’t make me wrong and doesn’t make you look like you train correct?
> @Skullcrusher


I'm just going to shit post everything you say because that's what's it's worth to me.

A big steaming pile of horse shit.


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I'm just going to shit post everything you say because that's what's it's worth to me.
> 
> A big steaming pile of horse shit.


It’ll never work. 
Why won’t post a pic 😂

He’s throwing a tantrum


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

Man, everyone is spicy this Sunday.

🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

He’s obsessed 😂


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

He’s still doing it 😂 😂


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

@Skullcrusher i don’t care about a reaction score. 
😂 I’ll shit post myself


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

I was going to counter like the shit posts, but you have enough positive reactions to take the hit 😂


----------



## CohibaRobusto (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I don't know. But I do know that kickbacks are a fuller ROM than skullcrushers.


Ok, I don't know much, but even I know this bullshit. 💩


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

He’s still going. 
He got triggered by the physique request


----------



## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> I'm just going to shit post everything you say because that's what's it's worth to me.
> 
> A big steaming pile of horse shit.


Fair enough, I won't waste any more of my time then. 

You've been led to water. Either drink or don't.


----------



## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Fair enough, I won't waste any more of my time then.
> 
> You've been led to water. Either drink or don't.


Same to you. I know what I know you can accept it or reject it.

I really don't give a fuck.


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Same to you. I know what I know you can accept it or reject it.
> 
> I really don't give a fuck.


Apparently you give a shit though


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

@Skullcrusher is stalking me and it’s very odd


----------



## Skullcrusher (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> @Skullcrusher is stalking me and it’s very odd


Oh I will give you my home address, SHOW UP MOTHERFUCKER!


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

What do you guys recommend for tricep growth with a guy that has some pretty fucked up elbows? I can do skull crushers with DB’s on a incline but I usually take a couple weeks off before returning to that exercise due to my elbows flaring up . I’m afraid when I get back I will be limited to cables can a person get enough stimulus from those or am I fucked ?


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

Why is this even happening? People were literally just talking about how kickbacks don't provide adequate stimulus compared to other exercises due to how the resistance curve is.

Why is that worth anyone getting upset over?

I'm going back to grilling my meat and planning out this pancake taco. 🤣


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Why is this even happening? People were literally just talking about how kickbacks don't provide adequate stimulus compared to other exercises due to how the resistance curve is.
> 
> Why is that worth anyone getting upset over?
> 
> I'm going back to grilling my meat and planning out this pancake taco. 🤣


Pictures and recipe of the pancake taco please that’s sounds good AF


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> Pictures of the pancake taco please that’s sounds good AF


I'll post it up after I make one tonight. Combining this smoker pork butt, with pancake, to make a pancake taco... Or maybe a pancake cone stuffed with meat and other goodies.

I'd probably do semi-soft waffles instead, but I don't have a waffle maker 😢


----------



## CohibaRobusto (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> What do you guys recommend for tricep growth with a guy that has some pretty fucked up elbows? I can do skull crushers with DB’s on a incline but I usually take a couple weeks off before returning to that exercise due to my elbows flaring up . I’m afraid when I get back I will be limited to cables can a person get enough stimulus from those or am I fucked ?


Man have you ever tried that voltaren stuff on your elbows? It is an anti inflamatory topical. They mainly use it for arthritis but I have healed up tennis elbow/ligament issues with it a few times.


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Man have you ever tried that voltaren stuff on your elbows? It is an anti inflamatory topical. They mainly use it for arthritis but I have healed up tennis elbow/ligament issues with it a few times.


No I haven’t but at this point I will try anything. I do get a lot out of wrapping them up which I’m wanting  to get some sleeves for that purpose  . I usually just use Ace bandages and it looks horrendous


----------



## CJ (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> What do you guys recommend for tricep growth with a guy that has some pretty fucked up elbows? I can do skull crushers with DB’s on a incline but I usually take a couple weeks off before returning to that exercise due to my elbows flaring up . I’m afraid when I get back I will be limited to cables can a person get enough stimulus from those or am I fucked ?


Yes, try rotating exercises. Maybe skulls for a month, then an oh cable extension for a month. Try different grip and elbow positions. Try going lighter weight and higher rep on the skills. 

If they end up always being a problem, just don't do them. No exercise is a must do. CGBP and Dips are other great tricep builders.


----------



## CJ (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> No I haven’t but at this point I will try anything. I do get a lot out of wrapping them up which I’m wanting  to get some sleeves for that purpose  . I usually just use Ace bandages and it looks horrendous


Problem with wrapping is it's only masking the issue, not solving it. You may very well be causing more damage even when wrapped.


----------



## CohibaRobusto (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> No I haven’t but at this point I will try anything. I do get a lot out of wrapping them up which I’m wanting  to get some sleeves for that purpose  . I usually just use Ace bandages and it looks horrendous


Yeah you can get it at the drug store, it used to be Rx only, but it's over the counter now. Try to use it a few times a day.


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> What do you guys recommend for tricep growth with a guy that has some pretty fucked up elbows? I can do skull crushers with DB’s on a incline but I usually take a couple weeks off before returning to that exercise due to my elbows flaring up . I’m afraid when I get back I will be limited to cables can a person get enough stimulus from those or am I fucked ?


I feel like I get a lot out of cable pushdowns and over head extensions. I also feel I get a lot out of dips. No idea if they are good alternatives for your problem or not.

For pushdowns I make sure my elbows stay locked at my side, and I just move my forearms like a T-Rex. I'm leaned slightly forward, and use a rope to get more ROM from the movement.

For tricep dips, I just make sure I don't lean forward. It's more of a straight up/down movement. Use a weight belt of course to make it worth the effort.

I also like close grip bench press, but not sure if that would aggravate your elbow or not.


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Problem with wrapping is it's only masking the issue, not solving it. You may very well be causing more damage even when wrapped.


Certain exercises really aggravated it and unfortunately I know those are the true builders. I’ve been able to work around it some it’s just a very fine line when doing certain exercises . Hopefully this time off has yielded some repairs . I think we are the same age are you restricted by any injuries?


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I feel like I get a lot out of cable pushdowns and over head extensions. I also feel I get a lot out of dips. No idea if they are good alternatives for your problem or not.
> 
> For pushdowns I make sure my elbows stay locked at my side, and I just move my forearms like a T-Rex. I'm leaned slightly forward, and use a rope to get more ROM from the movement.
> 
> ...


I was definitely doing the close grip bench with zero problems . I would try and do a lot of supersets but reading all this info in the different threads I don’t want to be performing junk reps and sets.


----------



## CJ (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> Certain exercises really aggravated it and unfortunately I know those are the true builders. I’ve been able to work around it some it’s just a very fine line when doing certain exercises . Hopefully this time off has yielded some repairs . I think we are the same age are you restricted by any injuries?


No, I've been lucky and with a little bit of form Nazi thrown in. A few niggles here and there, but nothing major since focusing on physique training.


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> No, I've been lucky and with a little bit of form Nazi thrown in. A few niggles here and there, but nothing major since focusing on physique training.


That’s AWSOME now I have my shoulders to think about. I’m a huge volume guy but now I’m thinking it’s time to get in establish movements that get to it and go from there and eliminate the extra wear and tear.


----------



## CJ (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> That’s AWSOME now I have my shoulders to think about. I’m a huge volume guy but now I’m thinking it’s time to get in establish movements that get to it and go from there and eliminate the extra wear and tear


Try it out, experiment a little.


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Try it out, experiment a little.


I’ve got about 5-6 months till I can really turn and burn. Any literature out there I can read up on you guys recommend ? There’s so many programs were to start. I admit I was doing it wrong for years it’s wasn’t till the last year or so I was training I started doing the progressive overloading. I had a lot of junk sets and reps in my workout program.  Every set was to failure so when I got to the true working sets I was spent. My arm workouts every set was a super set I just chased the pump .


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> I was definitely doing the close grip bench with zero problems . I would try and do a lot of supersets but reading all this info in the different threads I don’t want to be performing junk reps and sets.


I just make them heavy and do them with their own dedicated rest period. I go heavy as possible, since the triceps are a strong muscle and can handle a good amount of loading.

I aim for heavy in the 8-12 rep range; and make sure I take it to form failure on my top set. I'd aim for actual total failure, but I work out alone.


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

GSgator said:


> I’ve got about 5-6 months till I can really turn and burn. Any literature out there I can read up on you guys recommend ? There’s so many programs were to start. I admit I was doing it wrong for years it’s wasn’t till the last year or so I was training I started doing the progressive overloading. I had a lot of junk sets and reps in my workout program.  Every set was to failure so when I got to the true working sets I was spent. My arm workouts every set was a super set I just chased the pump .


I recommend the thread that RiR0 started. Let me dig it up.


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I recommend the thread that RiR0 started. Let me dig it up.


Here it is... Lots of info and videos in here.





__





						Nutrition and training videos and articles
					

This thread is for videos and articles about nutrition and training. Information to discuss and educate.



					www.ugbodybuilding.com


----------



## GSgator (May 29, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I recommend the thread that RiR0 started. Let me dig it up.





Send0 said:


> Here it is... Lots of info and videos in here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you SendO for the link and thanks Riro for the info


----------



## TeddyBear (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Yeah the tricep kick back, hex press(standing and laying), sideways chest press, fucking leg bands, the stupid lat pull down where you hold one side the bar down and do a pulldown with the other side, the stupid fucking curl where you use one dumbbell or a plate and curl it with both arms, the v handles for anything, the vertical leg press, the smith machine press where idiots lay under the bar and use the v handles, using the smith machine as a leg press.
> I’m sure there’s more but these all fucking useless


My opinion has less merit… but I believe the plate or single DB curl you’re describing DOES make the bicep PEAK more.

Also, the program I’m following, you recommended, literally says “V-Bar Pushdown”.


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

TeddyBear said:


> My opinion has less merit… but I believe the plate or single DB curl you’re describing DOES make the bicep PEAK more.
> 
> Also, the program I’m following, you recommended, literally says “V-Bar Pushdown”.


You can’t create a peak. You can build a bicep and it’ll have the same shape just bigger. 
They’re useless fluff exercises because you can’t properly load the muscle with them. 
It is in there but a better option would be to use the rope


----------



## CohibaRobusto (May 29, 2022)

nvm


----------



## RiR0 (May 29, 2022)

CohibaRobusto said:


> I think he was talking about using a v bar on the smith machine in what you quoted.


The vbar on back exercises too


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

CohibaRobusto said:


> nvm


He also said v-bar anything, which I agree with also. I don't like that attachment for any exercise


----------



## CohibaRobusto (May 29, 2022)

Send0 said:


> He also said v-bar anything, which I agree with also. I don't like that attachment for any exercise


I like it for tricep pushdowns, we have one that swivels to the angle of your wrists.


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

CohibaRobusto said:


> I like it for tricep pushdowns, we have one that swivels to the angle of your wrists.


It limits ROM.

For pushdowns, I actually really like two single ropes on a dual pulley setup. Or a two sided rope that's long enough for me to bring my arms to my sides. 

Can't fully do that with the v-bar.


----------



## TeddyBear (May 29, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You can’t create a peak. You can build a bicep and it’ll have the same shape just bigger.
> They’re useless fluff exercises because you can’t properly load the muscle with them.
> It is in there but a better option would be to use the rope


Ok, I much much prefer the rope. Easier on wrists FEELS right too.


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

TeddyBear said:


> Ok, I much much prefer the rope. Easier on wrists FEELS right too.


You can certainly really supinate hard and rotate slightly out as you reach the top of ROM using a rope.

I don't know if it's necessary 🤷‍♂️, but I feel the difference when I do them with a rope as well.

Usually when I do it this way, I'm just trying to finish a workout with a pump... Literally only for the feelz. Mentally I feel better walking out of the gym with a pump so hard it feels like my skin will split. It's 100% mental, I know this


----------



## PZT (May 29, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Man, everyone is spicy this Sunday.
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣


Been like this for two weeks at least


----------



## CJ (May 29, 2022)

Send0 said:


> It limits ROM.
> 
> For pushdowns, I actually really like two single ropes on a dual pulley setup. Or a two sided rope that's long enough for me to bring my arms to my sides.
> 
> Can't fully do that with the v-bar.


Ever try cross cable? I like it a lot.


----------



## Send0 (May 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ever try cross cable? I like it a lot.


I never tried that.. is this what you're referring to?


----------



## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I never tried that.. is this what you're referring to?


Yes, but I grab the ball instead of using a handle for 2 reasons. It just feels better, and if you use handles, the carabiners can catch on each other mid set, and then you're screwed. 

I know it doesn't look much different than using a rope, but it's a night and day difference for me. The cables stay in the perfect line of pull as your arm doing cross body like that. When you use single cable with rope, line of pull of the cable is vertical, but the rope is pulling at 5 and 7 o'clock.


----------



## Send0 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Yes, but I grab the ball instead of using a handle for 2 reasons. It just feels better, and if you use handles, the carabiners can catch on each other mid set, and then you're screwed.
> 
> I know it doesn't look much different than using a rope, but it's a night and day difference for me. The cables stay in the perfect line of pull as your arm doing cross body like that. When you use single cable with rope, line of pull of the cable is vertical, but the rope is pulling at 5 and 7 o'clock.


I was thinking that in some ways it ironically it looks like a kick back, except standing. I know it's different and that the cables completely change the resistance curve as well 

I grab the ball when doing rear delt flies for the same reason you mention.

I have a push day on Tuesday. I'll give these a try. Thanks!


----------



## Yano (May 30, 2022)

Ok as some one who does not understand all the ins and outs of bodybuilding , what's wrong things like JM Press and Close grips ? would adding anything else in make a difference for what I do ? Or is the cable stuff more to bring out definition or work certain heads of the muscles ?


----------



## Send0 (May 30, 2022)

Yano said:


> Ok as some one who does not understand all the ins and outs of bodybuilding , what's wrong things like JM Press and Close grips ? would adding anything else in make a difference for what I do ? Or is the cable stuff more to bring out definition or work certain heads of the muscles ?


I think cables just have a more consistent and usable resistance curve for some exercises... but it's also harder to overload (only so much weight you can put on a pulley system).

I definitely wouldn't only rely on pulleys if I was trying to increase my strength on bench. However if I'm trying to grow my triceps, then pulleys are a great addition to whatever barbell or dumbbell work you are doing.

I'll leave the smart explanation and correction to CJ and RiR0


----------



## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I was thinking that in some ways it ironically it looks like a kick back, except standing. I know it's different and that the cables completely change the resistance curve as well
> 
> I grab the ball when doing rear delt flies for the same reason you mention.
> 
> I have a push day on Tuesday. I'll give these a try. Thanks!


To take it up a notch, start doing them by taking 2 steps back. Go to failure, then take 1 step in and bang out a few more reps to failure. Step in a third time and rep put again to failure and beyond using partials. 

The first part of that giant set the cable will be perpendicular to your arm about at full extension, so most resistance in full extension. 

Second part of that set the cable will be perpendicular to your arm about the mid range position, so there's most resistance in the mid range. 

The third part the cable is perpendicular to your arm at 90°. The most most tension will therefore be on the full stretch. 

Great as a finisher for pump work.


----------



## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Yano said:


> Ok as some one who does not understand all the ins and outs of bodybuilding , what's wrong things like JM Press and Close grips ? would adding anything else in make a difference for what I do ? Or is the cable stuff more to bring out definition or work certain heads of the muscles ?


JMs and CGBP are fantastic meat and potatoes exercises for the triceps, both fantastic exercises to build around.


----------



## Send0 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> To take it up a notch, start doing them by taking 2 steps back. Go to failure, then take 1 step in and bang out a few more reps to failure. Step in a third time and rep put again to failure and beyond using partials.
> 
> The first part of that giant set the cable will be perpendicular to your arm about at full extension, so most resistance in full extension.
> 
> ...


I love it when you spoon feed me baby 😍.

Seriously though, thanks for this. Definitely trying it out on Tuesday.


----------



## Yano (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> JMs and CGBP are fantastic meat and potatoes exercises for the triceps, both fantastic exercises to build around.


Yeah those are my main go to, so I was curious.


----------



## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I love it when you spoon feed me baby 😍.
> 
> Seriously though, thanks for this. Definitely trying it out on Tuesday.


Another one is cable lateral raises.

If doing the right arm, you'd have the pulley down by your right foot, so when you rise the cable up, it's perpendicular to your arm at the end of the lift. 

Rep that out to failure, then do a quick 180° pivot so the cable is now by your LEFT foot, and perpendicular when you start the lateral raise. Rep those out. 

First part overloads the delt at the end range, second part of the set overloads it when your arms are closer to your sides.


----------



## Send0 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Another one is cable lateral raises.
> 
> If doing the right arm, you'd have the pulley down by your right foot, so when you rise the cable up, it's perpendicular to your arm at the end of the lift.
> 
> ...


Those I used to do, but they inflame my tendons so bad that I had to stop doing them. After a while enough damage builds up to where I can't recover enough to do any push movements.

Only on my left shoulder. This thing is a bitch to try to work around.  None of the doctors or physical therapists I'm working with can seem to agree on what the issue is. 

I'm about ready to say fuck it and just abuse it until it breaks.


----------



## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Those I used to do, but they inflame my tendons so bad that I had to stop doing them. After a while enough damage builds up to where I can't recover enough to do any push movements.
> 
> Only on my left shoulder. This thing is a bitch to try to work around.  None of the doctors or physical therapists I'm working with can seem to agree on what the issue is.
> 
> I'm about ready to say fuck it and just abuse it until it breaks.


Ever try to do them with cuffs instead of handles? 

I know it's not the same, but it's much better on my elbows with cuffs vs handles.


----------



## Send0 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ever try to do them with cuffs instead of handles?
> 
> I know it's not the same, but it's much better on my elbows with cuffs vs handles.


No but I'll give it a shot.

Issue is really the tendon that crosses the AC joint, not so much the elbow. Would cuffs still give some relief?


----------



## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> No but I'll give it a shot.
> 
> Issue is really the tendon that crosses the AC joint, not so much the elbow. Would cuffs still give some relief?


Probably not, but weird shit happens sometimes. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Send0 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Probably not, but weird shit happens sometimes. 🤷‍♂️


Hey, like I said I'm willing to try anything. I don't even care if it doesn't make sense. 🤣

Thanks again


----------



## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Hey, like I said I'm willing to try anything. I don't even care if it doesn't make sense. 🤣
> 
> Thanks again


Ever try Incline lying lateral raises? Stop at parallel to the ground, so you don't to the point of AC impingement? 🤔


----------



## Send0 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ever try Incline lying lateral raises? Stop at parallel to the ground, so you don't to the point of AC impingement? 🤔
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That I haven't done, but I've been considering it.

I've also been considering doing heavy partials, where I skip the upper 15-20% of ROM.


----------



## RiR0 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ever try Incline lying lateral raises? Stop at parallel to the ground, so you don't to the point of AC impingement? 🤔
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do heavy db lateral raises. I do them a little different almost like a mix of an upright row and lat raise done kind of explosive with a very controlled negative.


----------



## silentlemon1011 (May 30, 2022)

GSgator said:


> What do you guys recommend for tricep growth with a guy that has some pretty fucked up elbows? I can do skull crushers with DB’s on a incline but I usually take a couple weeks off before returning to that exercise due to my elbows flaring up . I’m afraid when I get back I will be limited to cables can a person get enough stimulus from those or am I fucked ?





GSgator said:


> No I haven’t but at this point I will try anything. I do get a lot out of wrapping them up which I’m wanting  to get some sleeves for that purpose  . I usually just use Ace bandages and it looks horrendous



I strongly recomend sleeves for elbows
My elbows are totally fucked, including a small tear on both my triceps, lots of lovely scar tissue

I even bench religiously with sleeves despite lifting in the raw class.

I only tske the sleeves off to test my ACTUAL 1RM calculation (I usually just hit a 3RM and do the math) but thags extrenely rare, as the strength and growth are the same with or without sleeves

The one piece of advice ill say about choosing a sleeve, dont go with too many plys or too muxh thickness,
Us injured guys arent competing equipped lifting and we dont need the ridgidity.
We need a good bit of flex and give to HOLD our elbiws togetber, not to much to provide the extra ridgidity for the actual competitive lift.

Its going to sound a bit silly, but a cheaper sleeve is probably a better bet for injured guys.

Ive experimented with a lot of sleeves for elbow injury... so all the equipped guys, dont hate me lmao, because i dont know shit about equipped lifting and this advice is not meant for that

My, BY FAR favorite everyday lifting Sleeves are Iron Bull, you can easily buy them from Amazon, theyre cheal, flexible... and if yiu size down, you get a kot of support.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ever try Incline lying lateral raises? Stop at parallel to the ground, so you don't to the point of AC impingement? 🤔
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can do cable lateral raises the same way, standing and leaning off of a post or something.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

This is exactly how I did kickbacks...that fucking music though!


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## PZT (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Yes, but I grab the ball instead of using a handle for 2 reasons. It just feels better, and if you use handles, the carabiners can catch on each other mid set, and then you're screwed.
> 
> I know it doesn't look much different than using a rope, but it's a night and day difference for me. The cables stay in the perfect line of pull as your arm doing cross body like that. When you use single cable with rope, line of pull of the cable is vertical, but the rope is pulling at 5 and 7 o'clock.


These are awesome. When I was doing them I’d hold the cable inbetween my thumb pad and push against the ball stopper that keeps it from fly back through the pulling. I though this exercise looked dumb and saw every current pro bodybuilder doing them so gave it a shot. Glad I did.


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## PZT (May 30, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I do heavy db lateral raises. I do them a little different almost like a mix of an upright row and lat raise done kind of explosive with a very controlled negative.


Seen Jay Cutler Preach that technique. It’s a nice change up/feel for sure


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## RiR0 (May 30, 2022)

PZT said:


> Seen Jay Cutler Preach that technique. It’s a nice change up/feel for sure


I got them from watching Skip Hill and reading one of his old logs


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## Test_subject (May 30, 2022)

RISE said:


> A fucking useless exercise.  I thought this was established years ago, yet I'm seeing everyone do them again.  This is an embarrassment to this nation.  Remember the good old days when we would do heavy ass skull crushers while screaming at ya boys ball sack who was standing over you helping you push out every last rep?  Now we're imitating jerking a dude off from behind while also taking it from behind.  This is a result of all the plastics in our bodies fucking with our hormones and turning us into bitches.  Soon we'll be a nation of testicleless bitchs lining up to take a group tricep kickback class at the local planet fitness.  Thanks Joe Biden.


Preach brother.

You won’t ever see someone with huge triceps doing this stupid exercise.

Legend has it that they’re an important  part of the transitioning process for male to female transgenders.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Yes, and then you go next level thinking....
> 
> Which exercises allow me to overload the muscle, thus causing a stimulus to grow and adapt? Pushups or Benchpresses? 🤔
> 
> Which exercises match the force curve of the muscles being trained, so I can effectively train them in the best way to grow? Kickbacks or Skullcrushers? 🤔


Looking back, this post makes sense to me...kind of.

Not sure what you mean by next level thinking.

I would agree with heavy weight overloading the muscles as better for building mass in general.

After all we are trying to cause microtears.

But then there are lifts that are not considered feminine where you probably need to use lighter weight. It's relative to the lift you are doing.

Some of the guys with healthy backs can deadlift 400+ pounds. But I would hate to see them try to do stiff legged deadlifts with the same weight. Does that mean stiff leg DL sucks for building muscle because you can't overload it as much? Deadlift is probably better because it can be overloaded, but if we are going to start tossing out every lift that is not wise to overload, that list could become long fast.

Bench Press vs OHP for building muscle.

Or are you saying that the movement pattern for kickbacks is flawed?


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## Test_subject (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Looking back, this post makes sense to me...kind of.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by next level thinking.
> 
> ...


Kickbacks suck because the tension curve is terrible. Your muscle is only under tension for like 1/3 of the movement. The rest of the time your arm is just kind of swinging there holding the purple urethane weight.

Rolling tricep extensions , pushdowns or overhead DB tricep extensions are WAY better alternatives if you want to hit your triceps with an isolation movement.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Kickbacks suck because the tension curve is terrible. Your muscle is only under tension for like 1/3 of the movement. The rest of the time your arm is just kind of swinging there holding the purple urethane weight.
> 
> Rolling tricep extensions or pushdowns are WAY better alternatives if you want to hit your triceps with an isolation movement.


Not sure what rolling kickbacks are. Pushdowns I know and love.

Not sure what a purple urethane weight is. I got up to 90 lbs per arm, slow with no swinging.


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## Test_subject (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Not sure what rolling kickbacks are. Pushdowns I know and love.
> 
> Not sure what a purple urethane weight is. I got up to 90 lbs per arm, slow with no swinging.


You can use 300 lbs — it’s still an inefficient movement.

There are better alternatives. Why use a shitty movement on purpose?


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> You can use 300 lbs — it’s still an inefficient movement.
> 
> There are better alternatives. Why use a shitty movement on purpose?


I actually haven't for a long time because I kind of hit a plateau and could not add more weight.


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Or are you saying that the movement pattern for kickbacks is flawed?


It's more the force curve of the movement pattern. Do it with cables and it's 100x better. 

DB Tricep Kickbacks and Dips aren't too dissimilar at first glance. Both have your elbows near your hips and you're extending your elbows to move the weight.

But muscles produce more force and have greater hypertrophic potential when they're trained at long lengths/stretched (dips) vs at shortened lengths(kickbacks). This is why you can move more weight and thus have more overload and thus more hypertrophy.

Here's a good write up by Chris Beardsley on the topic...








						How does the length-tension relationship affect hypertrophy?
					

Muscle growth is mainly caused by activated, single muscle fibers increasing in size after they have experienced mechanical loading.




					sandcresearch.medium.com


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> It's more the force curve of the movement pattern. Do it with cables and it's 100x better.
> 
> DB Tricep Kickbacks and Dips aren't too dissimilar at first glance. Both have your elbows near your hips and you're extending your elbows to move the weight.
> 
> ...


Ok now I think I am beginning to understand.

Fist time I am learning about force curve.

2 lifts for an entirely different muscle that I can compare it with so I can better understand?

To me it was just all extensions!


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Ok now I think I am beginning to understand.
> 
> Fist time I am learning about force curve.
> 
> ...


It's why we preach full active ROM.Deeper squats are better than heavier quarter squats, because the quads get stretched under load more. It's why DLs and RDLs are great hamstring builders because the hamstrings are stretched and forced to contract under tremendous load. It's why deep chest press are better than plate presses, the chest muscles are loaded under stretch. Full bicep ROM. Deep calf presses. Pec deck. The list goes on and on.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> It's why we preach full active ROM.Deeper squats are better than heavier quarter squats, because the quads get stretched under load more. It's why DLs and RDLs are great hamstring builders because the hamstrings are stretched and forced to contract under tremendous load. It's why deep chest press are better than plate presses, the chest muscles are loaded under stretch. Full bicep ROM. Deep calf presses. Pec deck. The list goes on and on.


Okay you named a bunch of good lifts. I definitely understand what you are saying now.

How about biceps?

Bad biceps lift vs good biceps lift due to superior force curve?


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Okay you named a bunch of good lifts. I definitely understand what you are saying now.
> 
> How about biceps?
> 
> Bad biceps lift vs good biceps lift due to superior force curve?


Quads: Squat vs Leg Ext for the vastus muscles of the quad. Good supplemental exercise for the Rec Fem though. 

Hams: Lying Leg Curls for the Semi muscles of the hamstrings, but great for the Biceps Femorus though. This one is more length tension relationship vs force curve though, basically the training the long head vs short head argument. 

Biceps would have to be something where someone did a standing cable curl with the pulley about hip height, so there's no tension at the beginning of the movement but some at peak contraction. The better choice would be an Incline DB curl, where there's load when the bicep is stretched, it gets a little harder about the midpoint (force curve is best from lengthened to mid range) then lightens again as the bicep reaches peak contraction.


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## Test_subject (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Biceps would have to be something where someone did a standing cable curl with the pulley about hip height, so there's no tension at the beginning of the movement but some at peak contraction. The better choice would be an Incline DB curl, where there's load when the bicep is stretched, it gets a little harder about the midpoint (force curve is best from lengthened to mid range) then lightens again as the bicep reaches peak contraction.


Weighted chin-ups are also an excellent and criminally underrated bicep exercise.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Weighted chin-ups are also an excellent and criminally underrated bicep exercise.



Shit
Ive seen guys with massive biceps who never work biceps... ever


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Shit
> Ive seen guys with massive biceps who never work biceps... ever


What's a terrible biceps exercise? 🤔


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## silentlemon1011 (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> What's a terrible biceps exercise? 🤔



I dunno
I dont really work biceps
Workinf back seems to do the trick

I cant think of any part of SBD needing biceps, so theyre in my ignore list


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## Valdosta (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> What's a terrible biceps exercise? 🤔


calf raises


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## silentlemon1011 (May 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Weighted chin-ups are also an excellent and criminally underrated bicep exercise.





CJ said:


> What's a terrible biceps exercise? 🤔



Just to add to this.
I RARELY work biceps
I might feel self conscious and work arms for a few weeks, but then i get bired and go back to just lats etc.

All that being said, im about 10 lbs off from the Canadian Powerliftinf association strict curl canadian record for my weighr class.

So fuck training biceps


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Okay you named a bunch of good lifts. I definitely understand what you are saying now.
> 
> How about biceps?
> 
> Bad biceps lift vs good biceps lift due to superior force curve?


OK, I got it.

You'd have to do a standing db curl, but you'd have to be leaning forward so that at peak bicep contraction your forearm is parallel to the ground.

And you can't do full ROM either because at the bottom youd either have to swing the weight back or use your triceps to do it. Just like a tricep kickback where at the bottom you can't get full ROM without swinging or using the bicep to curl it. Remember, elbow is locked at your side just like a kickback.

That's the EXACT biceps version of a tricep kickback. Ain't nobody gonna do that.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> OK, I got it.
> 
> You'd have to do a standing db curl, but you'd have to be leaning forward so that at peak bicep contraction your forearm is parallel to the ground.
> 
> ...


Ok thank you. I'm sorry if I was a pain in the ass, just trying to have a clear understanding.

I never let any bar swing with any lift unless I am completely done with a set maybe. Always slow controlled, especially on eccentric.

That curl would be hell on my back anyway!


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> Ok thank you. I'm sorry if I was a pain in the ass, just trying to have a clear understanding.
> 
> I never let any bar swing with any lift unless I am completely done with a set maybe. Always slow controlled, especially on eccentric.
> 
> That curl would be hell on my back anyway!


Do you have access to cables for a traditional standing press down? Same movement pattern as the kickback, but the opposite force curve. Do 1 arm at a time if it's easier on the elbows.

If not, throw a band over a pullup bar, do banded tricep pressdowns. Progress using heavier bands.

Neither are going to be great mass builders, but as a finisher to burn out the triceps, they'll do the job.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Do you have access to cables for a traditional standing press down? Same movement pattern as the kickback, but the opposite force curve. Do 1 arm at a time if it's easier on the elbows.
> 
> If not, throw a band over a pullup bar, do banded tricep pressdowns. Progress using heavier bands.
> 
> Neither are going to be great mass builders, but as a finisher to burn out the triceps, they'll do the job.


Yeah for the most part I have done rope or v-bar triceps pushdowns. Because they hit the lats they aggravate my lower back. So would kickbacks too. That's why I posted that isolated rope triceps pushdown, no lat involvement. Might try some CGBP and db skullcrushers just to see if there is noticeable improvement.









						ExRx.net : Cable Kneeling Triceps Extension
					






					exrx.net


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Skullcrusher said:


> ExRx.net : Cable Kneeling Triceps Extension
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ive done these, but standing and 1 arm at a time. Almost like pulling a sword or an arrow from behind my back.


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## Test_subject (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ive done these, but standing and 1 arm at a time. Almost like pulling a sword or an arrow from behind my back.


I do those with the dog leash handle grips. One arm at a time with a slight forward lean, support your elbow with your other hand.

Great tricep exercise.


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## CJ (May 30, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I do those with the handle grips. One arm at a time with a slight forward lean.
> 
> Great tricep exercise.


I like a single rope, but whatever feels best.


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## Skullcrusher (May 30, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ive done these, but standing and 1 arm at a time. Almost like pulling a sword or an arrow from behind my back.


You may have accidentally helped me to find another triceps extension that does not hit lats at all.

exrx does not have standing one arm, only supinated or pronated grip sitting down.









						ExRx.net : Cable One Arm Triceps Extension (pronated grip)
					






					exrx.net
				












						ExRx.net : Cable One Arm Triceps Extension (supinated grip)
					






					exrx.net
				




Now I can try some different variations to see what feels best.

Thank you.


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## Janoy Cresva (Jun 3, 2022)

I do kickbacks with cables and it tears my triceps up. Cum @ me bro


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