# First Cycle, Pre Blood Work and Cycle Plan Question



## mike9292 (Dec 19, 2015)

I will soon start my first cycle. My main question is about my labs.  Below I included my cycle plan incase that will determine what other tests need to be completed.
Age 22, 175 pounds, height 5’8"

Questions about lab:
A) Did the correct test get done for Estradiol (e2)?
B) The “Testosterone”, is that "total test”?
C) Should I get any other lab work done?  LH?  PSA? IGF-1?

Testosterone Calc Free:       11.7 ng/dl       Ref 4.8-25.7
(B) Testosterone                 682 ng/dl        Ref 300-1080
(A) Total Estradiol               28 pg/ml         Ref 20-75
DHEA-S                              324 UG/DL      Ref 240-549
Prolactin                             6.7 ng/ml        Ref 3-30
ALT
Alkaline Phosphatase (AP)
AST
BUN
CBC
CMP
Creatinine
FSH
Glucose
Hemoglobin & A1C
Lipid Panel
TSH

Question about cycle
D) Should week 20-21 be 25mg/d of clomid or 50mg/d?

Cycle plan:
- Test-E 15 weeks
- Anavar 60mg 4 weeks on then off and back on for the last 4 weeks of cycle
AI:
- Aromasin 12.5 EOD
- HCG: 250iu 2x/W after week 3 till week 15. Then week 16-17 500iu 2x/W
Wait two weeks for PCT
- Week 18-19
     Nolva 20mg 2x ED
     Clomid 50mg 2x ED
(D) - Week 20-21
     Nolva 20mg/d
     Clomid 50mg/d

Thanks!


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## Schredder (Dec 19, 2015)

There are a few minor tweaks that could be done to the cycle you have laid out.  Although, I am not going to touch on that because 22 years old is too young to be cycling.  As much as you probably don't want to hear it, it is.  Your Endocrine system has not finished developing yet, and stunting the growth of that with the use of exogenous hormones could very easily come back to haunt you down the road.  The Endocrine system is VERY important and shouldn't be tampered with until the age of at least 25 when it has finished developing.

You have a TT of 682 which isn't terrible, it'd be a shame to run a cycle at your age and never have that come back to what it was. 

Right now all you need is a good diet, ton of food, and to be smashing the shit outta some weights in the gym.  Get that fire in you, get being consistent down to a T, and spend the next 3 years training and eating your ass off.  If your nutrition and training are on point you will gain, I can promise you that.  Then, once you hit 25, you will have built a great base to work with, and if you are still interested in AAS, give 'er.  

You will be much better off in the long run waiting.....physically......and mentally.


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## SuperBane (Dec 20, 2015)

Man sometimes the shit that gets posted here sounds so damn condescending...

What was Arnold doing when he was 25?

How old do you have to be to smoke cigarettes?

How old do you have to be to buy a legal drink?

How old do you have to be to die for your country?

I would say that we are a board here to provide support. A brotherhood with common interests.
While one may not recommended doing something at a particular age and in fact we may all agree on that,
Yet we need not come off like snobby superior douche bags to prove the point.
Providing educational information is one thing.
Critiquing of a cycle is one thing.
Yet to play parental guardians with grown adults is absurd.

I could argue that in fact some certain aas aren't good for anyone at any age. 
Sometimes I just wish to bash some of you Fawkes with a liqour bottle.

The guy could stand to wait. No arguing that but he didn't ask for a priest or a guidance consultant... He asked for a critique of his cycle.

With a good ole regular pct and the mild cycle he has planned what are the odds he wouldn't recover?

gestapo bitches


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## Schredder (Dec 20, 2015)

I, in no way, meant to come off as a prick or condesending.  Thats not who I am in the least bit.  I have respect for everyone who lives this lifestyle and I feel that along with cycle advice people should also be made aware or risks to the endocrine system and HPTA if they arent already aware.  

I like to somewhat inform the 'younger' guys getting into the game of potential risks.  And along with some research on their part they can go ahead and, at least, make an informed decision.  


We all want to build muscle and get stronger but we also want to be able to be healthy so we can do it for a long time and avoid complications.  

I have a great deal of time invested in providing cycle advice and its something I enjoy doing.  Having said that, I would feel terrible if I gave cycle advice to someone I feel is too young and have them come back to say 'Im ****ed up now'.

I know we havent gotten to know eachother yet SB but, I can assure youI have the best intentions in every post I make.


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## Schredder (Dec 20, 2015)

As far as chances of recovering goes.  Id say its a coin toss.  Same as anyone else who cycles on and off.

The issue I have isnt with the possibility of not recovering.  It is with the endocrine system not being fully developed yet.  All the clusters of glands in that system play vital roles in physical and mental well being, and I dont thik it is wise to be tampering with it before it has reached it full potential.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 20, 2015)

SuperBane said:


> Man sometimes the shit that gets posted here sounds so damn condescending...
> 
> What was Arnold doing when he was 25?
> 
> ...



There are many reasons why cycling too young isn't a good idea, its not just about the chances of recovery. I made a pretty convincing, evidence based case for waiting until your at least 25 here:

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/18751-AAS-HPTA-the-Endocrine-System-should-I-wait-till-I-m-what-age-why?p=307003&viewfull=1#post307003

I saw nothing in Schredder's post to suggest he was being a "snobbery douche bag" about anything.
It is our responsibility to EDUCATE the younger members who come here about the risks of cycling at a young age because 99% of them have no idea what these risks are. It is NOT our responsibility to simply answer any question they ask regardless of how much we may disagree with their decision because this approach involves assuming that they know about the risks already - that is a flawed assumption.

Now I'm sure some members don't care about the risks of cycling too young and will critique the OP's cycle as he wishes, that's fine. But the idea that we should all do that? I don't think so.


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## SuperBane (Dec 20, 2015)

Yes There is plenty of information available to tell you to wait til 25 this is true indeed, Nor am I saying 22 is a good age to start.
Yet if a person had put together a cycle plan and is just trying to verify it is good to go chance are that person has read that information already and has made an informed decision to continue forward anyways.

There is plenty of information available telling older weeny guys to build a solid base first it they jump on anyways.
There are a lot of guys on the forums regurgitating information and these guys have done all sorts of cycles yet look like they don't even lift weights.

So many guys. Too many guys. Many and plenty cycles in and don't look like they even ****in lift.
We do not police them with the same tenacity and why not? 
Only because they are a few years older?
These older guys with no base should be following the same advice that schreder originally posted yet it is hardly ever said or pushed with the same effort as we all get off to with a younger guys.

I'm not saying it is right.
I'm just saying these people are likely to do a cycle regardless.
Might as well make sure it is being done correctly.
Yes including saying it may not be a good idea to start early yet providing guidance of a simple overview.

And I'm saying this my personal feelings on the whole thing regardless of age if you're not 200+ you simple are not ready to go unless for some odd chance you're a dwarf or a midget.
Learn to lift. Learn to eat. Don't run to that hard gainer lie bullshit because one is impatient and lazy. Learn to be accountable. Show some class and dedication...

Just my two cents and I may be totally off beat with the whole thing.
Nor am I trying to single out any one member or anything like that.
It just feels like a double standard that we let slide as a whole community.


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## SuperBane (Dec 20, 2015)

My apologies Schredder I didn't mean to single you out like that. That's how my original post read. Nor is it directed solely at any single member on our board. I just feel the community as a whole it is a double standard.

Lol nor did I validate or give an "overview" of Op's cycle. Lol haha I'm an asshole smh sorry


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## Onk (Dec 20, 2015)

mike9292 said:


> Question about cycle
> D) Should week 20-21 be 25mg/d of clomid or 50mg/d?
> 
> Cycle plan:
> ...



for education, a few notes.

I'd dose your aromasin ED, it has a short half life. In theory it needs to be used daily, though from using it, I do use it EoD on cruise. As this is your first use, I'd go with ED usage.

HCG: just split 500iu into 2x a week from your first Test shot and stop half a week before PCT. If you're serious about using it, be consistent and keep that LH flowing. 

PCT: I'd use nolva 40/40/40/40
Clomid I'd go 75/50/50/50

But most of all, wait until 25 

I waited from 23-25....it seems a long way, but **** I'm glad I did it. You'll find hanging out on BBing or AAS boards you'll learn a lot either way and really have your diet and training down pat before you get to 25 anyway. You'll make all kinds of gains this way as well!


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## bsw5 (Dec 20, 2015)

Honestly i think you should wait till you are 25 but that is your decision. You will do what yiu want to do in the end anyway. So Being it's your first cycle, why not just do test only @500 a week and forget the anavar. You need to know how your body is going to react to the higher level of test. Then your second cycle you can add another compound with the test. If you were to have problems it will be easier to pin point because you already know how your body reacts to the test. Just makes things easier this way. Don't make the mistake thinking more is always better. If I were you I'd listen to these guys advice. I'm sure more will chime in on this. There is a ton of knowledge on this forum.  What's your diet look like? Doing a cycle with a poor diet is a waste. Your diet is very important and needs to be dialed in before starting a cycle. How dedicated are you and what's your routine look like? You also need to do a lot of studying for yourself on what you are going to be using. There are a ton of stickies that you can be reading.


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## Schredder (Dec 20, 2015)

SuperBane said:


> My apologies Schredder I didn't mean to single you out like that. That's how my original post read. Nor is it directed solely at any single member on our board. I just feel the community as a whole it is a double standard.
> 
> Lol nor did I validate or give an "overview" of Op's cycle. Lol haha I'm an asshole smh sorry



No sweat man.  Its forgotten about.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 20, 2015)

Judging by your current stats I would bet you will lose most of what you gain on cycle as soon as you come off... You can weigh 200lbs or more naturally. 

Suck it bane


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## hulksmash (Dec 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Judging by your current stats I would bet you will lose most of what you gain on cycle as soon as you come off... You can weigh 200lbs or more naturally.
> 
> Suck it bane



Yep.

Wait and bulk naturally.  170s is nothing for your height.

Get to 200 at a good bf and then begin the journey.


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## mike9292 (Dec 21, 2015)

Alright, I'll save the cycle plan for the future. Thanks for the advice. 

While I have this forum and for future reference did I get the correct estradiol (e2) test done? "Total estradiol"
Should any other labs be done? 
Thanks again.


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## Schredder (Dec 21, 2015)

The Estradiol is the correct test, yes.
The 'Testosterone' is Total Testosterons(TT).
Check LH (Leutinizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone)


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## Schredder (Dec 21, 2015)

When you do decide its time to run a cycle.  Get the pre bloods done again, of course.  Also, get mid and post cycle bloods done as well.

Mid cycle bloods, which should be done around week 6 or 7, will show you if you have a legitimate Testosterone product.  If LH and FSH are shut down it is legitimate.  You will also be able to see if is dosed correctly or at least close to by your TT reading.  And you will able to adjust your AI dose based on what the E2 results are.  And of coirse you be able to see other health related numbers as far as liver and kidneys go and whatnot.

Post cycle bloods, which should he done 6 or so weeks post PCT, will show you if you have recovered or not.  If LH and FSH are back in optimal range and TT is around where it was then PCT was a success.   If not, another PCT might have to be done to help 'turn you back on'


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