# Stiff legged deads



## mickems (Jul 19, 2015)

I am doing stiff legged deadlifts this week and I have seen it done with straight, almost locked out legs and with stiff slightly bent knees.  Which is the correct or safe way to do these? Do you guys lower the bar down across the knees and shins all the way to floor? tips and advice please.


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## Milo (Jul 19, 2015)

Probably not good to have knees fully locked. When they're all the way locked they are no longer being supported by the leg muscles.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 19, 2015)

No locking the knees. Slightly bent. You should feel a lot of tension in the hams.


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## mickems (Jul 19, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> No locking the knees. Slightly bent. You should feel a lot of tension in the hams.



what about lowering the bar? should it be to the floor?


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## wabbitt (Jul 19, 2015)

mickems said:


> what about lowering the bar? should it be to the floor?



I usually do them off the bottom pin.  Seems to keep more focus on the hams and less on the back, but maybe that's just me.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 19, 2015)

mickems said:


> what about lowering the bar? should it be to the floor?


A stiff leg deadlift is to the floor. Don't bounce it. 

A Romanian dead stops mid shin or so


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## snake (Jul 19, 2015)

Keep the legs bent if you do them and keep tension on the hams. Personally, I see no need for them if you are squatting but I do lean forward on my squats which hits the hams more then an upright squat.

Good exercise but guys get too hung up on the weight which can lead to an injury. I tweaked my ham once while doing them.


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## HDH (Jul 20, 2015)

I like to do them with DBs. You're correct about the weight. I learned not to worry about the weight. Heavy isn't really necessary to grow for bodybuilding.

I keep them right to the edge of locking and take them to the floor. DBs to the floor give it a good stretch. By the time I'm finishing up, my knees are bending some to get in the extra.

Also, if you keep your knees locked back, you cut off circulation. If you've ever had to stand at attention for any length of time they will tell you don't lock you knees back because you could pass out. Of course it's not enough time to pass out but you want full circulation while doing the lift.

H


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## Lilo (Jul 20, 2015)

How much you bend at the knee also depends from person to person. Some have more flexibility, I couldn't do that movement with locked knees even without a bar, while keeping my back straight. It also depends on the length of your legs vs the arms, torso etc. if you have shorter arms you're going to bend a bit more.i don't like looking at YouTube videos for form on this one just because ithe correct movement can vary so much. Best thing is to ask someone trustworthy to check your form.


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## SFGiants (Jul 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> No locking the knees. Slightly bent. You should feel a lot of tension in the hams.



Beat me to it!

Ed Coan did these or still does a lot and he always says slightly bent knees.

You get stronger and start doing these with 3 plus plates like some of us your going to get hurt with locked knees.


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## SFGiants (Jul 20, 2015)

snake said:


> Keep the legs bent if you do them and keep tension on the hams. Personally, I see no need for them if you are squatting but I do lean forward on my squats which hits the hams more then an upright squat.
> 
> Good exercise but guys get too hung up on the weight which can lead to an injury. I tweaked my ham once while doing them.



Actually your probably a quad dominate squatter and your hams are not strong enough for an more upright squat, classic sign of hamstring weakness.

Stiff legged deads are a great accessory with a very great purpose to them, posterior chain strength and when that is weak the squat ends up leaned over and controlled by the quads.

It takes a strong posterior chain to handle a heavy upright squat, some on this board has seem my squat on the platform at full max and it's picture perfect because I attack my posterior chain hard 2 times a week.

These should be done in reps of 8 and higher IMO!


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 20, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> Actually your probably a quad dominate squatter and your hams are not strong enough for an more upright squat, classic sign of hamstring weakness.
> 
> Stiff legged deads are a great accessory with a very great purpose to them, posterior chain strength and when that is weak the squat ends up leaned over and controlled by the quads.
> 
> ...


I can tell you it 100% he is quad dominate.

From what I see the majority of time it's not just a posterior chain weakness but also an anterior pelvic tilt. If you are short in the front of the hip in a squat the body will compensate by leaning you forward more and really putting a nasty curve in the lumbar spine. 

Not snakes issue though. He just does the USAPL Rippetoe squat thing.


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## snake (Jul 20, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> Actually your probably a quad dominate squatter and your hams are not strong enough for an more upright squat, classic sign of hamstring weakness.
> 
> Stiff legged deads are a great accessory with a very great purpose to them, posterior chain strength and when that is weak the squat ends up leaned over and controlled by the quads.
> 
> ...



I don't think so. The more you lean over, the more your hams are engaged. My hamstring development is far from lacking and my DL style can not be done with shitty hamstrings.

I may not have a "Picture Perfect" squat but the weight does go up.


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## snake (Jul 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> I can tell you it 100% he is quad dominate.
> 
> From what I see the majority of time it's not just a posterior chain weakness but also an anterior pelvic tilt. If you are short in the front of the hip in a squat the body will compensate by leaning you forward more and really putting a nasty curve in the lumbar spine.
> 
> Not snakes issue though. He just does the USAPL Rippetoe squat thing.



I will admit that I use a a lot of back!


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## ECKSRATED (Jul 20, 2015)

If you're a female and have yoga pants on you should probably keep your knees locked while doing SLD


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## SFGiants (Jul 20, 2015)

snake said:


> I don't think so. The more you lean over, the more your hams are engaged. My hamstring development is far from lacking and my DL style can not be done with shitty hamstrings.
> 
> I may not have a "Picture Perfect" squat but the weight does go up.



Your contradicting what great coaches like Louie Simmons teaches, trust us your quad dominate because of a weak posterior chain your hams aren't strong enough.

You sit back into your posterior chain and you lean forward onto your quads, bodybuilders squat like that to target the quads.

Your hams are not engaged more with a forward lean, don't know where your getting that info but it's false.

I had that issues when I started until I got my posterior chain stronger and we have corrected it with mny others.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 20, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> Your contradicting what great coaches like Louie Simmons teaches, trust us your quad dominate because of a weak posterior chain your hams aren't strong enough.
> 
> You sit back into your posterior chain and you lean forward onto your quads, bodybuilders squat like that to target the quads.
> 
> ...


Don't waste your breath. The dude has (according to the books) the worst form ever. Still out totals you by like 60 or 80 lbs. 


It's ****ed up and I can't explain it. I think just after years he found what works for him.  Makes me crazy lol

His peak for the meet:
Max effort every day
Ignore advice
Use bad technique
Over train
Get injured
Keep maxing out
Get huge total
**** bitches


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Don't waste your breath. The dude has (according to the books) the worst form ever. Still out totals you by like 60 or 80 lbs.
> 
> 
> It's ****ed up and I can't explain it. I think just after years he found what works for him.  Makes me crazy lol
> ...



This is all true. I helped handle Snakey on his last meet day. Watching him lift made my BP higher then when I take 100mg of Dbol and 40mg of Halo and 100mg of TNE on my own meet days.

I seriously contemplated going to the bathroom and ripping my own pubes out because it would hurt less then watching Snake lift.

All that said, whatever he does, works for him. He had a big total for anyone, never mind an AARP member, and he won best lifter at the meet. It's one of those "Don't try this at home" things. Hell, a very well known east coast powerlifter was there back spotting, and after Snakes last squat, he looked at Snake and said "You literally do everything wrong, but I guess it works for you."

That and Steeler took a shit on me while I was wrapping his knees....it was a long day.


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## SFGiants (Jul 20, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Don't waste your breath. The dude has (according to the books) the worst form ever. Still out totals you by like 60 or 80 lbs.
> 
> 
> It's ****ed up and I can't explain it. I think just after years he found what works for him.  Makes me crazy lol
> ...





DieYoungStrong said:


> This is all true. I helped handle Snakey on his last meet day. Watching him lift made my BP higher then when I take 100mg of Dbol and 40mg of Halo and 100mg of TNE on my own meet days.
> 
> I seriously contemplated going to the bathroom and ripping my own pubes out because it would hurt less then watching Snake lift.
> 
> ...



He is stronger because he isn't new to this he has been training and competing longer then just about all of us!


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## SFGiants (Jul 20, 2015)

Oh to add to that my total will rise beyond his in time if he don't fix his technique.


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## snake (Jul 21, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> Oh to add to that my total will rise beyond his in time if he don't fix his technique.



I hope it does brother, just keep an open mind and that will take you further then anyone's opinion of what you should do. Like the guys said, I'm far from textbook. 

Just to add something POB missed. I pull from 8" blocks and only come off the floor 3x in 4 months before the meet plus I DL on squat day. Again, not text book but it works for me.


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## ECKSRATED (Jul 21, 2015)

There is no right and wrong way to do anything. Just cus some well known coach said something doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.


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## HDH (Jul 21, 2015)

snake said:


> I hope it does brother, just keep an open mind and that will take you further then anyone's opinion of what you should do. Like the guys said, I'm far from textbook.
> 
> Just to add something POB missed. I pull from 8" blocks and only come off the floor 3x in 4 months before the meet plus I DL on squat day. Again, not text book but it works for me.



This part of the discussion has got me interested. I see what everyone says and I see you have strong lifts. I am not a powerlifter and I claim to know nothing about it. I'm actually quite the opposite, I don't care about the weight, just making myself grow.

I was just wondering, do you think if you took a step backwards, lightened the weight and worked on the things people say you are doing wrong, do you think you could skyrocket your lifts?

H


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 21, 2015)

HDH said:


> This part of the discussion has got me interested. I see what everyone says and I see you have strong lifts. I am not a powerlifter and I claim to know nothing about it. I'm actually quite the opposite, I don't care about the weight, just making myself grow.
> 
> I was just wondering, do you think if you took a step backwards, lightened the weight and worked on the things people say you are doing wrong, do you think you could skyrocket your lifts?
> 
> H


It would take him a while to build things up.


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## SFGiants (Jul 21, 2015)

snake said:


> I hope it does brother, just keep an open mind and that will take you further then anyone's opinion of what you should do. Like the guys said, I'm far from textbook.
> 
> Just to add something POB missed. I pull from 8" blocks and only come off the floor 3x in 4 months before the meet plus I DL on squat day. Again, not text book but it works for me.



Yeah, I'm just setting goals and one of them is to pick up at least 50lb by November while the long term goal is elite total raw in 3 weight classes, 242, 259 and 275.


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## SFGiants (Jul 21, 2015)

ECKSRATED said:


> There is no right and wrong way to do anything. Just cus some well known coach said something doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.



Technique wise most set themself short not fixing issues this is fact brother.


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 21, 2015)

On the technique thing, I agree that taking a few steps back to "perfect" technique is good. 

I just don't agree in Snakes case. He has been at it for so long, and is so old (no offense Snake), that I actually think it would be counter productive for him.


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## SFGiants (Jul 21, 2015)

DieYoungStrong said:


> On the technique thing, I agree that taking a few steps back to "perfect" technique is good.
> 
> I just don't agree in Snakes case. He has been at it for so long, and is so old (no offense Snake), that I actually think it would be counter productive for him.



Even guys like Stan Efferding work on fixing issues so I call bullshit on this, wanna talk about strong and horrible technique he is a great example.


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 21, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> Even guys like Stan Efferding work on fixing issues so I call bullshit on this, wanna talk about strong and horrible technique he is a great example.



I don't disagree at all, but you haven't seen old Snake lift. Can't really compare anyone to Efferding, but I have never seen anything like Snake. Ive never seen anyone move respectable weight with technique that "bad", and it's not like he's some 275 that can muscle weight around. Hes a classy 220 lifter. By the time he got more textbook technique, he'd be ready to retire lol. You would pretty much be starting from scratch.  

Believe me, I'm with you. I'm constsntly trying to get my technique better in all 3 lifts. I just can't really explain Snake lol, and it's not a knock on him. His total speaks for itself. You probably would have stroked out if you were handling him lol.


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## SFGiants (Jul 21, 2015)

DieYoungStrong said:


> I don't disagree at all, but you haven't seen old Snake lift. Can't really compare anyone to Efferding, but I have never seen anything like Snake. Ive never seen anyone move respectable weight with technique that "bad", and it's not like he's some 275 that can muscle weight around. Hes a classy 220 lifter. By the time he got more textbook technique, he'd be ready to retire lol. You would pretty much be starting from scratch.
> 
> Believe me, I'm with you. I'm constsntly trying to get my technique better in all 3 lifts. I just can't really explain Snake lol, and it's not a knock on him. His total speaks for itself. You probably would have stroked out if you were handling him lol.



I have and still do have some WTF teammates lol!


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## SFGiants (Jul 21, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Don't waste your breath. The dude has (according to the books) the worst form ever. Still out totals you by like 60 or 80 lbs.
> 
> 
> It's ****ed up and I can't explain it. I think just after years he found what works for him.  Makes me crazy lol
> ...



Your math is bad he just totaled 1420 I just totaled 1399 that's 21lbs

I got him on squat I did use wraps but I don't get 100lbs out of them like some lol
I got him on bench
He crushed me on deadlift


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 21, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> Technique wise most set themself short not fixing issues this is fact brother.


When it's a limiting factor.  I don't always just build my clients by having them lift. But by how they lift.

Pink is a good example.  Not everyone fits those textbook biomechanics.

He started off waaay to far over the bar on his dl. He got some advice here on getting behind the bar. It set him back. 315 was stuck in the mud. 

I went thru his vids and you can see his femurs are so long that it had his hips too far away from the bar.  So we let his knees come forward some. 

He pulled 465 for a pr. But you can see his back start to round. 

It's always something.  Some technique change that's as simple as bringing your grip width in a finger gets you a 20lbs bench pr.  But 30 lbs later you now need to bring the grip out.

It's a mini max.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 21, 2015)

SFGiants said:


> I have and still do have some WTF teammates lol!


Yeah me too. Guy goes by DYS. Perhaps you heard of him?


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## Itburnstopee (Jul 26, 2015)

Bent knees will target hamstrings more.


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