# Will Clen hinder gains while on Test-p?



## canadianbuilt (Apr 27, 2014)

Just wondering if its worth running clen on test cycle (prop to be exact). Any advice/ experience with clen on cycle would be appreciated, thanks.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 27, 2014)

What is your goal?


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## canadianbuilt (Apr 27, 2014)

I want to gain lean muscle while keeping body fat as low as possible. I usually use clen off cycle to tighten up, but was curious if clen is a bad idea while on. Ps im considering using tren ace with my next prop cycle. thanks pillarofbalance


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 27, 2014)

I suppose you could. I'm just not a fan of trying to gain mass while using drugs that speed metabolism.  What you are trying to do is a matter of careful diet. I think you'd do better to just focus on that rather than add a compound like clen.


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## Malevolence (Apr 27, 2014)

I think most of the time Clen is ran post cycle to cut after bulk.  Also I think the sides can be worse running Clen while on cycle. But everyone is different


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## coltmc4545 (Apr 27, 2014)

I've ran clen on and off cycle. Like POB said your goals can be better met with diet tweaks.

What is "lean muscle"?


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## canadianbuilt (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanks for the info everybody. I think I'll stick to clen off cycle, considering keeping a strict diet isn't hard for me. 

And by "lean muscle" i meant gaining muscle with least water/ fat weight that comes from bulking. Only desire is muscle.. 

Thanks again


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## goodfella (Apr 27, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> I suppose you could. I'm just not a fan of trying to gain mass while using drugs that speed metabolism.  What you are trying to do is a matter of careful diet. I think you'd do better to just focus on that rather than add a compound like clen.



Good advice right here


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## Bro Bundy (Apr 27, 2014)

canadianbuilt said:


> Thanks for the info everybody. I think I'll stick to clen off cycle, considering keeping a strict diet isn't hard for me.
> 
> And by "lean muscle" i meant gaining muscle with least water/ fat weight that comes from bulking. Only desire is muscle..
> 
> Thanks again



its reaaly hard to keep the water off 100% only tren gives that look


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## hulksmash (May 6, 2014)

Clenbuterol causes muscle gain.

I can look up the studies again if I have to.

It causes an increase in anabolism through beta adrenergic systems.

Edit: hell go to google scholar and type in "clenbuterol skeletal tissue" or the like.


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## canadianbuilt (May 6, 2014)

thanks hulk ill check it out now


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## canadianbuilt (May 6, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> Clenbuterol causes muscle gain.
> 
> I can look up the studies again if I have to.
> 
> ...



Studies say clenbuteral does have anabolism effects, but as pob said it does increase metabolism. So most likely Id have to consume more "clean" calories to keep up the rate of building muscle since i'll be burning additional cals due to the clenbuterol. It might be a waste, but Im going to try administering clenbuterol mid cycle to see what my personal results are. My goal is to stay lean and gain muscle only. 

thanks for the help!


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## TheBlob (May 6, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> I suppose you could. I'm just not a fan of trying to gain mass while using drugs that speed metabolism.  What you are trying to do is a matter of careful diet. I think you'd do better to just focus on that rather than add a compound like clen.



I second this.. Clen for me us a pretty good appetite suppressant so it works ok for a cut.. But I naturally eat like a horse my appetite is insatiable if I wanna drop bodyfat I need a appetite killer.... I think youll find diet to be much more forgiving while on cycle, meaning you can eat quite a bit of food and not add much fat at all.. So if your just trying to get big and not add fat.. You wont have much use for the clen


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## TheBlob (May 6, 2014)

Oh and as far as clen being "anabolic" give that a rest thise studies involve doses that would be fatal to a human, otherwise my experience with clen is zilch for growth


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## canadianbuilt (May 6, 2014)

TheBlob said:


> Oh and as far as clen being "anabolic" give that a rest these studies involve doses that would be fatal to a human, otherwise my experience with clen is zilch for growth



There are other studies on horses given 1-2 mg /lb of weight which is somewhat similar to the doses humans take. I assume you're reffering to the studies that use rats on a 100mg dose. I know its not certainly conclusive as our receptors may not be exactly like lab animals. All I can say is I lost 15lbs of fat and kept my strength from a clen cyc. Seemed to have been at least anti-catabolic (muscle) on a 1500 cal /day diet with ed cardio. I'm finding this to be quite the debatable topic.


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## TheBlob (May 6, 2014)

Hey those results would definitely indicate I could definitely be wrong. As thats a pretty hefty calorie deficit. I might wonder how far along in your training are you? I myself when in the beginning used 1800 calories lost 20lbs and got stronger with no kind of pharmaceuticals... Mostly in my opinion is if it works then do it and you wont know if it works till you try...

P.S. Good job, dropping fat is really hard. Takes discipline. Good work


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## DocDePanda187123 (May 6, 2014)

canadianbuilt said:


> There are other studies on horses given 1-2 mg /lb of weight which is somewhat similar to the doses humans take. I assume you're reffering to the studies that use rats on a 100mg dose. I know its not certainly conclusive as our receptors may not be exactly like lab animals. All I can say is I lost 15lbs of fat and kept my strength from a clen cyc. Seemed to have been at least anti-catabolic (muscle) on a 1500 cal /day diet with ed cardio. I'm finding this to be quite the debatable topic.




Humans dose clen in MICROgrams not MILIgrams


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## TheBlob (May 6, 2014)

Yeah and the horse studies is what I was referring to.. If you took 1 mg per lb of body weight it wouldnt be pretty


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## canadianbuilt (May 7, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Humans dose clen in MICROgrams not MILIgrams



I thought mg as in myself meaning micrograms would suffice, but you're right. If someone is looking at this forum who doesn't understand basic clen dosages it is mcg.


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## canadianbuilt (May 7, 2014)

TheBlob said:


> Hey those results would definitely indicate I could definitely be wrong. As thats a pretty hefty calorie deficit. I might wonder how far along in your training are you? I myself when in the beginning used 1800 calories lost 20lbs and got stronger with no kind of pharmaceuticals... Mostly in my opinion is if it works then do it and you wont know if it works till you try...
> 
> P.S. Good job, dropping fat is really hard. Takes discipline. Good work



My cut last spring was also done without pharmaceuticals, I lost just under 20 lbs naturally. I was aprx the same starting weight this year as my last cut. That being said, this years cut with the aid of clenbuterol helped me keep the strength. Along with keeping my strength this time, I also shed a lot of fat around my mid section and I now have my abs showing more than ever. This leads me to believe my natural cut ate some muscle along with the fat.


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## DocDePanda187123 (May 7, 2014)

canadianbuilt said:


> I thought mg as in myself meaning micrograms would suffice, but you're right. If someone is looking at this forum who doesn't understand basic clen dosages it is mcg.



Ok, it's just when I see mg for clen I want to make sure the person doesn't take milligrams of it. Very dangerous to do so. My other point is that animals such as horses, what many of clen studies are done on, can take huge amounts of clen without adverse effects. Humans cannot. 

The only way I see clen as being anabolic is bc it would increase basal metabolic rates slightly which would lead to an increase in protein synthesis. Unfortunately the amount your BMR is raised and consequently protein synthesis is very very small especially at doses we would use. Some studies support increased anabolic effects solely in animals bc of the different concentrations of beta-2 and 3 receptors than humans have. These findings have not been duplicated in humans though, again bc of the different ratios of beta receptors. 

Lastly, several studies have also noted that any anabolic effects that were shown in animals receded after cessation of treatment. They lost everything they gained. The time these gains were kept was usually only as long as the length of treatment or a few days longer. How this extrapolates to us is tricky bc these were short term studies of 10days to 1.5months I believe. We'd obviously be running clen for longer than 10days but it begs the question would the gains disappear after longer treatment, not to mention these gains were still vey minor only in animals at ridiculous doses for humans.


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## canadianbuilt (May 7, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Ok, it's just when I see mg for clen I want to make sure the person doesn't take milligrams of it. Very dangerous to do so. My other point is that animals such as horses, what many of clen studies are done on, can take huge amounts of clen without adverse effects. Humans cannot.
> 
> The only way I see clen as being anabolic is bc it would increase basal metabolic rates slightly which would lead to an increase in protein synthesis. Unfortunately the amount your BMR is raised and consequently protein synthesis is very very small especially at doses we would use. Some studies support increased anabolic effects solely in animals bc of the different concentrations of beta-2 and 3 receptors than humans have. These findings have not been duplicated in humans though, again bc of the different ratios of beta receptors.
> 
> Lastly, several studies have also noted that any anabolic effects that were shown in animals receded after cessation of treatment. They lost everything they gained. The time these gains were kept was usually only as long as the length of treatment or a few days longer. How this extrapolates to us is tricky bc these were short term studies of 10days to 1.5months I believe. We'd obviously be running clen for longer than 10days but it begs the question would the gains disappear after longer treatment, not to mention these gains were still vey minor only in animals at ridiculous doses for humans.



Thanks Doc, valuable information. Since clen offers such a minute increase in protein synthesis and an increase in metabolism, would you say its not beneficial to a lean mass building cycle? Im not looking to get massive off my cycle, but I was to gain muscle and avoid fat. I do have a very good diet already, but I have a bulk about of clen on hand anyways. I was going to try including it into my prop cycle in about a weeks time (on the end of week 1 test prop only, besides adex). 

thanks again, much appreciated.


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## DocDePanda187123 (May 7, 2014)

canadianbuilt said:


> Thanks Doc, valuable information. Since clen offers such a minute increase in protein synthesis and an increase in metabolism, would you say its not beneficial to a lean mass building cycle? Im not looking to get massive off my cycle, but I was to gain muscle and avoid fat. I do have a very good diet already, but I have a bulk about of clen on hand anyways. I was going to try including it into my prop cycle in about a weeks time (on the end of week 1 test prop only, besides adex).
> 
> thanks again, much appreciated.



I believe the effects of clen to be very minimal. Would it hurt, only if misused and/or it causes yu severe cramping to the point you can't lift anymore. That happened to me when I experimented with very high doses. I couldn't even do a bodyweight squat, walk up the stairs, couldn't hold water (I'd piss 2min after drinking anything), etc. I'm using clen again but only at 20mcg or so and only to help with my breathing which has been shot due to tren. If you use it just be smart and safe about it although I think there are better compounds out there. 

The most important factor for gaining lean mass with minimal fat will be diet not which compounds you use. Make sure to eat in a slight surplus to minimize fat gains. Get adequate macros, get diverse sources of food for those macros, lift hard, and repeat.


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## canadianbuilt (May 7, 2014)

Im rather lucky as I have next to no sides from clen, other than shortness of breath while doing cardio. I was taking upto 150mcg last time I was using clen, that was mid way as I taper up then back down. 
Thanks doc ill focus on diet, with the info you and others have provided im going to try clen while using test. Just to see what my personal results are. Ill let you guys know in the next couple weeks. 

cheers


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## hulksmash (May 20, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Ok, it's just when I see mg for clen I want to make sure the person doesn't take milligrams of it. Very dangerous to do so. My other point is that animals such as horses, what many of clen studies are done on, can take huge amounts of clen without adverse effects. Humans cannot.
> 
> The only way I see clen as being anabolic is bc it would increase basal metabolic rates slightly which would lead to an increase in protein synthesis. Unfortunately the amount your BMR is raised and consequently protein synthesis is very very small especially at doses we would use. Some studies support increased anabolic effects solely in animals bc of the different concentrations of beta-2 and 3 receptors than humans have. These findings have not been duplicated in humans though, again bc of the different ratios of beta receptors.
> 
> Lastly, several studies have also noted that any anabolic effects that were shown in animals receded after cessation of treatment. They lost everything they gained. The time these gains were kept was usually only as long as the length of treatment or a few days longer. How this extrapolates to us is tricky bc these were short term studies of 10days to 1.5months I believe. We'd obviously be running clen for longer than 10days but it begs the question would the gains disappear after longer treatment, not to mention these gains were still vey minor only in animals at ridiculous doses for humans.



Sorry for being slow to reply...

The increases in skeletal muscle is due to adrenorceptors within humans and some cAMP pathways.

It's been a year or so since I read some studies; it was human skeletal tissue..

Too lazy to look since clenbuterol is useless to me. Maybe you can google scholar it up Doc and find some studies.

Last I recall the benefits weren't with abnormal dosing and with human skeletal tissue.


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