# TRT beginning to show its stripes



## Gadawg (Jun 27, 2018)

Did my first pin of my 10th week of trt on monday. Due to constant overuse injuries, I hadnt gone real heavy on bench in a long time. Cant really do flat bench anymore due to a somewhat dislocated ac joint but do incline just fine. Did my typical warm up and worked to my first work set at 275 and got 7. Went to 295 and got 5. 315 for 3. Decided, what the hell, try 335. Went up super easy. Added 20 more and squeaked out a 355 incline at 35 years old. When I was young, my benches were 365 incline and 415 flat so Im pretty blown away that after only ten weeks at a small dose of test, Im pushing close to what I was at 21. Havent been focusing on strength at all either. Im a hypertrophy guy these days. Get bloods done on thursday and then the clinic wants to take me off test for 10 days and run hcg daily. Not sure how I feel about it but we will see what bloods show


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 27, 2018)

First nice work

Second why on Earth would they want you to come off test?


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## Gadawg (Jun 27, 2018)

I suppose they want to make it easier to rebound if you ever decide to quit. Both sperm and test production.


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## Jin (Jun 27, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> I suppose they want to make it easier to rebound if you ever decide to quit. Both sperm and test production.



Forget it. 

If you're concerned about fertility just freeze some sperm and/or run hcg with your trt. 

If your doctor isnt commited to you being on for life he should have tried other methods first.


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## Gadawg (Jun 27, 2018)

Aint a doctor. A trt clinic would put a 20 year old on if the check cashed. Im just dialing in my dosage and AI's with them before I buy from the gym rats and save myself thousands.


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## Jin (Jun 27, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Aint a doctor. A trt clinic would put a 20 year old on if the check cashed. Im just dialing in my dosage and AI's with them before I buy from the gym rats and save myself thousands.



ok. Let me restate.

If you are not commited to trt for life you should be looking at other options.


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## Gadawg (Jun 27, 2018)

Not going back to that


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## stonetag (Jun 27, 2018)

Good work man! Just one question, what is a somewhat dislocated AC joint? not being a smartass, genuinely curious.


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## Gadawg (Jun 27, 2018)

I separated my ac joint several months back. Had the typical raised bump between shoulder and trap and could hear and feel it moving around. Went to a doc and he said nothing was torn so it's as if the ligaments just basically stretched out and the joint moves around. It's been tightening back up but I still cant do dips or flat bench


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## snake (Jun 27, 2018)

Another feel good TRT story! Just do yourself a favor and back off the singles and triples. The last thing you want when riding the wave is to step on your dick and get injured.

Good for you my man. Life is better on TRT.


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## DF (Jun 27, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Did my first pin of my 10th week of trt on monday. Due to constant overuse injuries, I hadnt gone real heavy on bench in a long time. Cant really do flat bench anymore due to a somewhat dislocated ac joint but do incline just fine. Did my typical warm up and worked to my first work set at 275 and got 7. Went to 295 and got 5. 315 for 3. Decided, what the hell, try 335. Went up super easy. Added 20 more and squeaked out a 355 incline at 35 years old. When I was young, my benches were 365 incline and 415 flat so Im pretty blown away that after only ten weeks at a small dose of test, Im pushing close to what I was at 21. Havent been focusing on strength at all either. Im a hypertrophy guy these days. Get bloods done on thursday and then the clinic wants to take me off test for 10 days and run hcg daily. Not sure how I feel about it but we will see what bloods show



The clinic I was with a while back started doing this protocol of coming off test & doing hcg.  I dumped them & started to self administer.


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## jennerrator (Jun 27, 2018)

what is with making him stop for 10 days..running hcg....and then back on test???????


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## DF (Jun 27, 2018)

jennerrator50 said:


> what is with making him stop for 10 days..running hcg....and then back on test???????



I don't recall exactly what my clinics reasoning was..... I do recall the excuse they used as being IMO senseless, so I dumped them.


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## jennerrator (Jun 27, 2018)

DF said:


> I don't recall exactly what my clinics reasoning was..... I do recall the excuse they used as being IMO senseless, so I dumped them.



So we are thinking it's just all about money..lol...I'm not shocked but damn...can't anyone stop trying to rob everyone....

My Dr. admitted to me last visit that he makes money from giving prescriptions that I got at the pharmacy..my vial of test (when I was trying to do it properly but couldn't afford it when it got out of control) ..went from $80 to $ 195...can you fuuucking believe that shit!!!!!


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## DF (Jun 27, 2018)

jennerrator50 said:


> So we are thinking it's just all about money..lol...I'm not shocked but damn...can't anyone stop trying to rob everyone....
> 
> My Dr. admitted to me last visit that he makes money from giving prescriptions that I got at the pharmacy..my vial of test (when I was trying to do it properly but couldn't afford it when it got out of control) ..went from $80 to $ 195...can you fuuucking believe that shit!!!!!



Hmmm, they get $$ for scripts?  No wonder everyone is on drugs.


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## Robdjents (Jun 27, 2018)

jennerrator50 said:


> So we are thinking it's just all about money..lol...I'm not shocked but damn...can't anyone stop trying to rob everyone....
> 
> My Dr. admitted to me last visit that he makes money from giving prescriptions that I got at the pharmacy..my vial of test (when I was trying to do it properly but couldn't afford it when it got out of control) ..went from $80 to $ 195...can you fuuucking believe that shit!!!!!



I can believe and do believe it....Doctors and big pharma are one in the same.


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## jennerrator (Jun 27, 2018)

DF said:


> Hmmm, they get $$ for scripts?  No wonder everyone is on drugs.



Yea, I was actually shocked when he said that...wonder if it's legal..lmao


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## dk8594 (Jun 27, 2018)

DF said:


> I don't recall exactly what my clinics reasoning was..... I do recall the excuse they used as being IMO senseless, so I dumped them.



Pretty sure we were using the same clinic. I dumped them too.  The BEST case scenario was that they would be able to bring us back up to our sh1tty pre trt levels.  Made me realize they didn’t know what the heck they were doing.


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## Gadawg (Jun 27, 2018)

Watch "prescription thugs". It's eye opening


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## dk8594 (Jun 27, 2018)

jennerrator50 said:


> So we are thinking it's just all about money..lol...I'm not shocked but damn...can't anyone stop trying to rob everyone....
> 
> My Dr. admitted to me last visit that he makes money from giving prescriptions that I got at the pharmacy..my vial of test (when I was trying to do it properly but couldn't afford it when it got out of control) ..went from $80 to $ 195...can you fuuucking believe that shit!!!!!



Wow.  I'm really surprised, and kind of impressed, that he admitted that.  That explains why most Docs try to gives average person 2 or 3 scripts  their way out the door rather than suggesting no pharmaceutical interventions (exercise and diet)


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## jennerrator (Jun 27, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> Wow.  I'm really surprised, and kind of impressed, that he admitted that.  That explains why most Docs try to gives average person 2 or 3 scripts  their way out the door rather than suggesting no pharmaceutical interventions (exercise and diet)



I was surprised also but he’s straight forward which I like..was I irritated that...that’s how I found out why the amount went crazy..just a tad lol but I don’t stress over shit that’s past!:32 (20):


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## MrRippedZilla (Jun 27, 2018)

jennerrator50 said:


> what is with making him stop for 10 days..running hcg....and then back on test???????


Maintain fertility I would assume. 

I've seen a few endos do something similar - intersperse cycles of test with HCG - in order to preserve fertility. It's also mentioned a few times in the literature. This is done over the course of months rather than days though. 
Of course this is kind of an outdated (by a few years) approach since we know that hCG works just fine alongside TRT, no need to separate the two. Could be a cost issue in the US too (not being able to afford to run both all the time).


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## jennerrator (Jun 27, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Maintain fertility I would assume.
> 
> I've seen a few endos do something similar - intersperse cycles of test with HCG - in order to preserve fertility. It's also mentioned a few times in the literature. This is done over the course of months rather than days though.
> Of course this is kind of an outdated (by a few years) approach since we know that hCG works just fine alongside TRT, no need to separate the two. Could be a cost issue in the US too (not being able to afford to run both all the time).



Thanks! Not bad if they are trying to do stuff properly but we know how that is...


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## Gadawg (Jun 27, 2018)

My wife is an IVF case. We have like a dozen embryos frozen still. My fertility matters zero


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## BRICKS (Jun 28, 2018)

Actually, yes there are docs who get money from pharmaceutical companies.  The 2010 Physicians Payment Sunshine Act was passed and designed to increase the transparency of pharmaceutical company/physician payment relationships for Medicare/Medicaid.  The increase in transparency and any actual effect its had on prescribing practices is questionable at best.  If you had a question about if your doc was getting a "kick back" you should be able to find this out. 

This is the link to the CMS search engine for this info.

By the way, I found this info in a 30 second Google search....just sayin


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## Jin (Jun 28, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> My wife is an IVF case. We have like a dozen embryos frozen still. My fertility matters zero



please explain.


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## Gadawg (Jun 28, 2018)

Wife had to do IVF to get pregnant so I have embryos still on ice if we want more kids.


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## Jin (Jun 28, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Wife had to do IVF to get pregnant so I have embryos still on ice if we want more kids.



I get that. 

Do do you have sperm on ice? 

If not and you become infertile, then she cannot have your kid. Hence your fertility matters. 

As I stated before, the safest way to play it is to freeze some sperm. 

Although it's very unlikely you'll become Infertile on trt, it's a higher chance than not being on trt. 

Running hcg concurrently with trt will most likely be all you need. Plenty of guys remain fertile even in heavy cycles without hcg. 

Everybody is different. It's a roll of the dice.


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## Gadawg (Jun 28, 2018)

Embryo isnt an egg. It's already fertilized and reached blastocyst stage


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## Jin (Jun 28, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Embryo isnt an egg. It's already fertilized and reached blastocyst stage



Schooled!

i had no idea thanks for the lesson.


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## Gadawg (Jun 28, 2018)

I sense the sarcasm. But with a pile of embryos already made, why would I concern myself with fertility?  Serious question


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## Jin (Jun 29, 2018)

Jin said:


> Schooled!
> 
> i had no idea thanks for the lesson.





Gadawg said:


> I sense the sarcasm. But with a pile of embryos already made, why would I concern myself with fertility?  Serious question



I'm a sarcastic guy in real life and on the Internet. Even my wife is confused sometime. But, no, my comment was genuine. I did not grasp there was a difference between an egg and a fertilized embryo. 

Agree. No need for you to maintain fertility.


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## Viduus (Jun 30, 2018)

Jin said:


> I'm a sarcastic guy in real life and on the Internet. Even my wife is confused sometime. But, no, my comment was genuine. I did not grasp there was a difference between an egg and a fertilized embryo.
> 
> Agree. No need for you to maintain fertility.



I missed the difference also. I was tempted to make a joke about your math meaning 1+0=2. Always learning something new on here.

well I guess I knew an embryo wasn’t an egg but the first time I read your post my mind took it as an egg. I assumed IVF froze just the egg.


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## Elivo (Jul 1, 2018)

I thought the same thing , confusing egg with embryo, and thought wtf does it matter if she froze her eggs if you cant juice them up!!  Thanks for the education!


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## Jin (Jul 1, 2018)

Jin said:


> I'm a sarcastic guy in real life and on the Internet. Even my wife is confused sometime. But, no, my comment was genuine. I did not grasp there was a difference between an egg and a fertilized embryo.
> 
> Agree. No need for you to maintain fertility.



*if you plan on sticking with your wife for life


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## Viduus (Jul 1, 2018)

Jin said:


> *if you plan on sticking with your wife for life



“Your honor, I’d like at least two embryos in the divorce”


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## Gadawg (Jul 1, 2018)

Not gonna have any more kids either way. Id like to bang about 6 million women so if my wife leaves me or dies, my lack of active sperm will be a blessing.


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## Ironwood (Jul 1, 2018)

Glad you are reaping the benefits of TRT.  Always good to have a fellow Dawg around.


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## Gadawg (Jul 12, 2018)

After 10 weeks of trt I pressed 8 reps at 275 on my first work set on incline. Before trt I might have gotten that for 5, maybe. Id imagine to be making those kind of gains that I was more hypogonadal than I had thought.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 12, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> After 10 weeks of trt I pressed 8 reps at 275 on my first work set on incline. Before trt I might have gotten that for 5, maybe. Id imagine to be making those kind of gains that I was more hypogonadal than I had thought.



Give yourself some credit. This ain't all trt. A lot of it is your own attitude and belief about what you are capable of.


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## Elivo (Jul 12, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Give yourself some credit. This ain't all trt. A lot of it is your own attitude and belief about what you are capable of.



this is true, I’ve been on it for about the same time frame and probably a lower dose. But I’ve also been putting in the effort in the gym and diet and I’ve seen my strength go up a fair amount, far beyond what my small trt dose would be accountable for. 

You keep doing the work and it will continue to pay off.


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## Gadawg (Jul 12, 2018)

I can tell you for certain that I would have tendonitis in shoulders and elbows while lifting this heavy pre-trt so I could never recover from it. I am pain free after ten weeks. I havent been pain free for many years.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 13, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> I can tell you for certain that I would have tendonitis in shoulders and elbows while lifting this heavy pre-trt so I could never recover from it. I am pain free after ten weeks. I havent been pain free for many years.



Sorry bro but that ain't the Trt. Read up on testosterone's negative effects on collagen synthesis.  

But guess it don't matter really. Just keep working hard and making progress and stay on top of your blood work. Doing great man


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## jennerrator (Jul 13, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Sorry bro but that ain't the Trt. Read up on testosterone's negative effects on collagen synthesis.
> 
> But guess it don't matter really. Just keep working hard and making progress and stay on top of your blood work. Doing great man



Yep, true story...never took away any of my issues..unfortunately


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## Gadawg (Jul 13, 2018)

What I think healthy test does is remove someone from an overtrained state. Overtrained equals overuse injuries. I wouldnt need trt if I wasnt overtraining honestly, but I like training hard and doing lots of cardio so at 35, here I am. Ive never had an actual injury in my life surprisingly, only overuse inflammation.


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## Elivo (Jul 13, 2018)

Training hard and lots of cardio isn’t overtraining. You mentioned that you do a bro split in a different thread, I would think it almost impossible to overtrain hitting a muscle group one time a week, MAYBE something like shoulders if you have them trained right after chest and they are getting hit both days in a row becaus of that, but if you use some sense in what days you train what, that is avoidable.

im not sure a trt dose impacts recovery to the extent you’re thinking, I’m sure one of the guys who have been on it longer than I have can weigh in with their opinion on it, but trt is is not like running a cycle where I’m pretty sure recovery is really sped up.


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## Gadawg (Jul 13, 2018)

I can assure you that you can. Any muscle that I work is sore for 4-5 days every week.


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 13, 2018)

Elivo said:


> Training hard and lots of cardio isn’t overtraining. You mentioned that you do a bro split in a different thread, I would think it almost impossible to overtrain hitting a muscle group one time a week, MAYBE something like shoulders if you have them trained right after chest and they are getting hit both days in a row becaus of that, but if you use some sense in what days you train what, that is avoidable.
> 
> im not sure a trt dose impacts recovery to the extent you’re thinking, I’m sure one of the guys who have been on it longer than I have can weigh in with their opinion on it, but trt is is not like running a cycle where I’m pretty sure recovery is really sped up.



Trt absolutely has tremendous positive effects on MUSCLE recovery. Just not on joint damage is all.


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## jennerrator (Jul 13, 2018)

I guess it just goes to how  everybody's body is different...:32 (20):


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## Elivo (Jul 13, 2018)

jennerrator50 said:


> I guess it just goes to how  everybody's body is different...:32 (20):



guess so...


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## stevenmd (Jul 13, 2018)

Jin said:


> ok. Let me restate.
> 
> If you are not commited to trt for life you should be looking at other options.


 BEST ADVICE EVER!  



jennerrator50 said:


> what is with making him stop for 10 days..running hcg....and then back on test???????


  Only 1 reason: money.


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## notsoswoleCPA (Jul 15, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Trt absolutely has tremendous positive effects on MUSCLE recovery. Just not on joint damage is all.



Being hypothyroid, taking prescribed thyroid medication in addition to my TRT protocol seemed to help with my joint pain the most.  

At some point, I'm planning on running deca 1:1 with my TRT protocol to see if that helps with a nagging shoulder issue that comes and goes.  Thus far, my solution was to go with a narrower grip on bench press to take the pressure off that shoulder since wide grip bench press on the competition rings seems to aggravate it the most.  The downside is that I bench press less weight when I go the length of my thumb away from the beginning of the knurling for my left and right hand.


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## Gadawg (Jul 15, 2018)

I do incline bench only due to a year old ac joint separation. Saves my shoulders.


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## Gadawg (Jul 18, 2018)

275x10 my first set of incline today. These results are unreal. Really makes me wonder what I could have been had I gone full on into gear in my mid twenties. Oh well, never know now but loving these benefits. Ive been running for 30 minutes before breakfast for a few weeks now and doing cardio again after lifting so Ive been tightening up and losing fat lately but Im still somehow up 4lbs!  I was 231 today. Strength and muscular endurance is just unreal. I cant even fathom what a real cycle would be like.


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## Jin (Jul 18, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> 275x10 my first set of incline today. These results are unreal. Really makes me wonder what I could have been had I gone full on into gear in my mid twenties. Oh well, never know now but loving these benefits. Ive been running for 30 minutes before breakfast for a few weeks now and doing cardio again after lifting so Ive been tightening up and losing fat lately but Im still somehow up 4lbs!  I was 231 today. Strength and muscular endurance is just unreal. I cant even fathom what a real cycle would be like.



You can achieve the same level you would have had had you taken AAS in your twenties. You can even surpass that. 

As for your first cycle: there will be endless PRs.


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## Gadawg (Jul 18, 2018)

I just dont think that I want to jump into that pool. At 5-10, Im 231 with abs starting to show. I dont live the lifestyle like a lot of you guys. I drink beer. Dont watch calories or macros. I do a physical job all day and do a ton of cardio. Got a 2 year old daughter, hunt and fish and hike a ton.  I lift like I do because I love to. Dont really have a goal in mind. I might bladt some straight test in the future here and there but probably never really cycle.  Would be interesting to see my AAS potential, but not worth the risk to me (however marginal it really is)


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## Jin (Jul 18, 2018)

I think it's uncommon for a guy at your level to go on trt and not try a cycle. Maybe you are different or special. 

You can also do everything you are currently doing and run a cycle. Lots of people do. 

I haven't  achieved your level of strength (at least bench) even with AAS. I know if I were in your shoes I'd want to bench 500.


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## Viduus (Jul 18, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> Trt absolutely has tremendous positive effects on MUSCLE recovery. Just not on joint damage is all.



I think this is the part that surprised me the most. For me, TRT made me feel “less like crap” in general but more then anything it’s made me rebound much faster from harder training.

When I was more uneducated I assumed it would be more like a stimulant and didn’t really understand how it would feel.


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## Gadawg (Jul 18, 2018)

I guess I just dont know how much more I want from this. Keep in mind Ive been at this since I was in 5th grade and never did any AAS.  Not saying it wont happen but Im in this life for the long haul and I know I could put on 30lbs or more running some cycles but that bodyweight isnt healthy and is counter to a lot of my lifestyle. Happy to be here with you guys and gals though and reaping the rewards of some exogenous testosterone!  

As for the 500 lb bench, I pushed 415 natural at 21 yo and pretty happy with that. I wont delve into those numbers again for fear of injury. I make my living with my hands so just too much risk.


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## Jin (Jul 18, 2018)

I respect your decision.


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## snake (Jul 18, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> I just dont think that I want to jump into that pool. At 5-10, Im 231 with abs starting to show. I dont live the lifestyle like a lot of you guys. I drink beer. Dont watch calories or macros. I do a physical job all day and do a ton of cardio. Got a 2 year old daughter, hunt and fish and hike a ton.  I lift like I do because I love to. Dont really have a goal in mind. I might bladt some straight test in the future here and there but probably never really cycle.  Would be interesting to see my AAS potential, but not worth the risk to me (however marginal it really is)



I have 4 young men and still find time to give a few fish a sore lip and a deer a dirt nap. Trust me, I'm scarce in the gym during the rut. In October, I'll be in a tree with a bow in my hand more than in a gym. Plan your lifting around your seasons and you can be good at all of them. 

AAS is a personal decision and a comfort level of the risk. I respect your honesty.


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## Gadawg (Jul 18, 2018)

snake said:


> I have 4 young men and still find time to give a few fish a sore lip and a deer a dirt nap. Trust me, I'm scarce in the gym during the rut. In October, I'll be in a tree with a bow in my hand more than in a gym. Plan your lifting around your seasons and you can be good at all of them.
> 
> AAS is a personal decision and a comfort level of the risk. I respect your honesty.




Where do you live?  Im from PA originally. I hunt mostly with a recurve these days. Been scouting a lot this year. We bought a cabin this winter in the NE GA mtns and I bet Ive walked 100 miles scouting for the bow opener (bears). Got some stands to hang on my deer leases still but really ready for September to get here


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## snake (Jul 18, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Where do you live?  Im from PA originally. I hunt mostly with a recurve these days. Been scouting a lot this year. We bought a cabin this winter in the NE GA mtns and I bet Ive walked 100 miles scouting for the bow opener (bears). Got some stands to hang on my deer leases still but really ready for September to get here



NE Pa. Biggest black bears around are here and a healthy population. I never targeted them but have seen them, some close. 

I hear ya about the preseason work. I spend a lot of time scouting and preping food plots. Guys tell me how lucky I am to get a buck almost every year but I got more time in the woods before the season then most guys got into their entire deer hunts.


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## Gadawg (Jul 19, 2018)

It's a lot different here. Season deer limit is 12. Can kill two bears and 3 gobblers. Our mtns have almost nothing but bears and pigs now but goid deer hunting in the rest of the state. Seen 22 bears so far since june 1. We bowhunt them exclusively in the big mtns. It's probably my favorite hunts of the year.


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## Gadawg (Jul 19, 2018)

My family has a camp in the tuscarora st forest in perry county. My first deer hunting was all up there with the orange army.


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