# TRT and long term cycle



## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

My stats;
6'2"
240lbs
BF 23%
53 y/o
30 yr firefighter/paramedic
Goals;
Reduce BF
Increase muscle mass
Increase energy and stamina
Reduce pain from injuries and arthritis 

Added the ff/pmdc info to explain one part of my reasons for starting steroids. I've worked out my entire life, even got a B. S. in exercise science because of my love for working out. Unfortunately over the last few years I have suffered a few injuries from my job. I have arthritis now and recently had to have a knee replacement, torn Achilles, broken ankle etc. Anyway, my workout intensity has really suffered. I recently visited a very popular supplement shop after it was rocommended by a few very "large" guys at my new gym. When I got there I was expecting to be recommended some sarms or prohormones, etc.. all of which I had tried years ago with good results along with some not so good side effects. Anyway once I'm there and talking to a "POSSIBLE" steroid user, at least a very well developed and very tan gentleman, he tells me I should talk to the nurses in their TRT office. I did and decided to go on their plan. This included a full blood panel workup which came back fine. The program they started me on is;

Deca 60mg
Test enanthate 70mg
Test cypionate 70mg
This is split into 2 doses a week 3 days apart.
HGh 20units daily at bedtime.
Clomid 1x week

My question and confusion is this. I'm in my second week now and have already started feeling and seeing some small results;
*definition
*increased appetite
*increased stamina and energy
*less pain in joints (part of my reason for the deca and Hgh)

So, from everything I've read these doses are way to low to really see a lot of anabolic effect. Are the minor effects I'm seeing placebo or truly improvements? They also said I would not have to cycle off at all.

This is all prescribed by a physician and I was told this is the max dose prescribable.

What should I expect long term from this combo?

Thanks guys and apologies for the long post.


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## Robdjents (Nov 19, 2020)

Placebo is a hell of a drug. Will take 4 to 5 half lives before you "sense" it...why do they have you on enth and cyp? One or the other is fine cuz test is test and the two esters have similar half lives...welcome aboard

Also trt is for life.

This place you are getting it from seems sketchy.. a trt office in a supp store am I reading that right?


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

The only thing I can think of is a max prescribable dose for each to get the total up? But the nurse said I could change the next cycle to just deca and test e. The test would then be a 90mg 2x week. Doesnt make sense to me either.


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

Thx for the welcome and quick reply


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

Is it OK to post the store and try clinic info here?


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

It seems like everyone in the store is a competitive Bb. Lots of fake tans(think jersey shore) and huge. Pretty sure they didn't get to their size naturally and probably not on the dosage I'm on.


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## Deadhead (Nov 19, 2020)

20 iu of hgh daily? Daaammmn, and why clomid on cycle? Very strange setup, are your wrist killing you yet?


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

No wrist pain. Actually my knee and wrists are feeling better than they have in a long time. Of course it's only been 2 weeks. If 20iu is a lot I may have misquoted the dose. I'll go back and check when I get home. I thought it was 10iu/cc and I inject 2cc everynight.


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## Jin (Nov 19, 2020)

Hcg not hgh. 20iu therefore is a small dose (probably incorrect). 

Welcome aboard. Lots to learn here and for you to study and understand. Dig into the stickies and ask questions once you have a fundamental understanding of compounds, half-lives esters etc.


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## Deadhead (Nov 19, 2020)

Jin said:


> Hcg not hgh. 20iu therefore is a small dose (probably incorrect).
> 
> Welcome aboard. Lots to learn here and for you to study and understand. Dig into the stickies and ask questions once you have a fundamental understanding of compounds, half-lives esters etc.



Ahh, makes more sence....


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

Product is Hgh 191AA and the directions are "20iu (units) per day 7 days a week at bedtime."


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## Deadhead (Nov 19, 2020)

PetrifiedQuagmire said:


> Product is Hgh 191AA and the directions are "20iu (units) per day 7 days a week at bedtime."


Oh.... damn , where this clinic again lol


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

Atlanta. Lol. I was so confused after the post by Jin. I had to come home and confirm.


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## Jin (Nov 19, 2020)

PetrifiedQuagmire said:


> Atlanta. Lol. I was so confused after the post by Jin. I had to come home and confirm.


Oops. My bad. Had t had coffee yet.


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 19, 2020)

Thanks for the reply Jin. As a moderator could you give me an opinion on my original post. So much info out there it's hard to find pertinent info and especially info you can trust.

From what I've read so far the deca/test e/test c dosages are low but the Hgh is high for an everyday dosage. Most websites say 1 - 6 units per day 5 days a week.

Maybe the dosages are due to my age and staying on them permanently without an off cycle.

Thanks in advance.


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## Jin (Nov 19, 2020)

PetrifiedQuagmire said:


> Thanks for the reply Jin. As a moderator could you give me an opinion on my original post. So much info out there it's hard to find pertinent info and especially info you can trust.
> 
> From what I've read so far the deca/test e/test c dosages are low but the Hgh is high for an everyday dosage. Most websites say 1 - 6 units per day 5 days a week.
> 
> ...



I’m unfamiliar with the hgh product you are using. My guess is that it isn’t actual hgh. So I cannot comment on that. Nobody is able to take 20ius of hgh in one go as far as I know. 

Zero reason to give you both test c & e. That’s screwy. But 140mg total per week of test is sound. 

60 a week of deca as a therapeutic dose? Eh, maybe. I think most guys are closer to 100. 

You enjoy learning so I suggest you dive in.


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## Sicwun88 (Nov 19, 2020)

Welcome to the underground!
The "clinic " sounds shady as well as the doses? Wht are they charging you for this?
I assume it's not an insurance thing?


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## dk8594 (Nov 19, 2020)

Welcome to UGBB.  A lot of good info on TRT here.


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 20, 2020)

They've been around a long time and I know at least 10 people get there stuff there. The prescription was signed by a MD and the pharmacy was empower in Texas. It's a legit pharmacy as in they don't sell to the public. They also did a full blood panel. After reading up more on what they prescribed I went back and said that the dosages seemed low and that I wanted to up them. They said they couldn't based on my blood work and the MD wouldn't sign off on it. So, in my mind an illegitimate office wouldn't deny someone who wants to spend more money. For a 3 month supply of hgh, test e, test c, deca, clomid and all supplies was about $600.


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## brock8282 (Nov 20, 2020)

Not placebo, steroids start working immediately upon injection and 200mg per week is plenty for a first time user to make great progress. You can build a very impressive dose on that dose.


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 20, 2020)

Awesome, thanks for the info. I was really getting concerned.


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## Straight30weight (Nov 20, 2020)

I dont understand cyp and enth. Thats odd. I dont understand why you're on clomid,  that's a bit odd. You also mentioned the word cycle, trt is no cycle. It's forever.


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 20, 2020)

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure about the 2 tests either. Yeah, I shouldn't have called it a cycle. I'm just curious to see if over the long term i will notice a decent change in body composition. I guess it won't be as much as a true cycle especially in the short term but I a hoping for some real changes over the next 6 months to a year. I was confused at first realizing this was TRT. I thought TRT was a monthly visit to a primary care physician for a small dose of test to keep ones levels up. I didn't realize that deca and hgh was a part of TRT.


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## creekrat (Nov 20, 2020)

HGH is not part of TRT. The deca is mainly for joint health and will make your joints feel soft and fuzzy. TRT is for life since once you introduce the exogenous test you natural production will stop and after a period it is virtually impossible to get natural production back. That is why the guys are saying it is for life. 

That “hgh 191aa” appears to be a peptide and not true HGH. 

Typical test dosages for TRT tend to be in the 100-200mg per week dosage and the guys I’ve seen running deca for joints has been in the 100mg per week like Jin said.


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## DF (Nov 20, 2020)

Welcome to the UG!  As other have said read up.  Do we really care if this place is “sketch”?  You can make great gains on a trt dose. Enjoy it!  Not sure what the clomid is about but any questions fire away!


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## Straight30weight (Nov 20, 2020)

PetrifiedQuagmire said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure about the 2 tests either. Yeah, I shouldn't have called it a cycle. I'm just curious to see if over the long term i will notice a decent change in body composition. I guess it won't be as much as a true cycle especially in the short term but I a hoping for some real changes over the next 6 months to a year. I was confused at first realizing this was TRT. I thought TRT was a monthly visit to a primary care physician for a small dose of test to keep ones levels up. I didn't realize that deca and hgh was a part of TRT.


The reality is they're giving you a bit more than trt. Trt is just that, testosterone replacement therapy. Typically includes testosterone (of one ester-cyp OR enth) and some sort of AI for estrogen control if needed. And sometimes HCG for fertility and to keep your boys plump. 

Deca is not part of trt nor is hgh, or whatever it is they're saying is hgh. On top of that, $200 is quite a bit per month. You could go through your physician or get an endocrinologist and go through insurance for far less. 

As for making gains on trt, absolutely. You can make tons of gains.


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## DeplorableCracker (Nov 20, 2020)

curious what your test level was at before they put you on all this stuff? like the guys here said, after a while it becomes a for life scenario so definitely think about that and have a fallback plan if this place gets shutdown one day. 

Personally, I make sure I have a years worth of backup test in case shit hits the fan or whatever. Similar to why I keep a separate savings account to cover a years worth of mortgages in case my wife or I lose our jobs etc.

Just something to think about as you go along.

welcome to the board!


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## PetrifiedQuagmire (Nov 20, 2020)

So after reading everything I can find and watching every video on yt, here is what I've learned about Hgh so far.

* hgh has 191 amino acid chains
* there are basically only 2 forms of "real" Hgh available 
* first is Hgh or rHgh(in my case named Hgh 191aa) which is named so because of the 191 amino acids in true Hgh. 
*secondly is Hgh(frag) which is only the portion of Hgh contained in the amino acid fragments 176 through 191 the fragments from 0 - 175 are removed.
* Hgh191aa is actually just another name for real Hgh
* Hgh frag (176-191) is the portion of Hgh that contains only the fat burning properties of Hgh191. All other properties of Hgh have been removed. So the frag will have none of the other  effects normally see in Hgh.

Some sources say that if you are more interested in the fat burning portion of Hgh that buying just the Hgh frag your results will be much better (up to 12x more effective).  Based solely on volume in a 10iu vial you should get more 176-191 fragments in than you can putting the entire AA chain in.  I suppose this would depend on the manufacturer and how they dilute the product. 

As far as my original post is concerned I was wrong in my actual daily dose. My vial contains 20iu of Hgh. It is reconstituted with 2cc's of bac water. My dose is 2iu's injected nightly. I purchased 3 vials for a one month supply. So each vial is a 10 day supply.



Thank you all for the info. It caused me to really dig into the information available and I feel much more informed and a lot better about what I'm taking.


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## Trank406 (Nov 23, 2020)

Damn son!!! I might have to move to Texas! **** my endocrinologist haha I like your place much better! Update us on how your results go and kill it at the gym even after you come off if you plan to. But yeah like the guys said TRT is for life... and it’s amazing!


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