# Deadlift rant ! Have to share



## viktor89 (Oct 2, 2014)

So I'm on bill starr's , just rebooted it after new PR's- took 2 weeks off. Last to last week my DL final set was 285 reps 5 and I felt good. Last week my final set was 295 reps 3 and I was like wtf! and 

Here comes today - I did my warm up with 135 lb and I was like, _why the hell does this weight feel heavy, who knew what the fate had in store for me_ So , I'm increasing the weight in progressive manner and 

I get to 255 and raping happens - I am only able to do 3 reps of 255lbs!!!! I was like maybe my form is wrong. I go ahead, ready it for 295 lb.  It felt like it was cemented to the earth. ARGHHHH!!!!

I have done 295 reps 5 -in my last cycle of this workout already and now it feels foreign to me. I wanted to throw the weights out but I had no strength lol 

I workout 3x a week and in between I do boxing 40 mins including 5 mins rest in between session . I stretch and all too. 

Last week after I failed to finish my set 295 reps 5 - I did light weight deficit DL - saw a video that it helps with DL - that's the only thing I added and it can't be cuz of that I failed horribly today?

Now I'm stuck at same DL and Squat- my bench and OHP went up. I know if I fail consecutively 3x in a row , I need to de-load but what gives ? and Oh this time I ain't even doing isolation exercises. 

Just the main ones.

Rant over

Any criticism or friendly analysis is welcome.


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## jSalud (Oct 2, 2014)

Are you eating enough?


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## viktor89 (Oct 2, 2014)

jSalud said:


> Are you eating enough?



I'm not gaining any weight but yes my diet is sufficient. I do not feel hungry during my day. 

For some reason my weight fluctuates a lot - one day it'll be 220lb and other day it'll be 224 lb


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## viktor89 (Oct 2, 2014)

and Oh! for what's it worth. I reduced my Bent over rows significantly to improve form. Now I'm sorta upside down almost 90 degree and I've noticed that it uses significant lower back strength.


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## deadlift666 (Oct 2, 2014)

Some days you'll be weak. Don't over think it unless it's consistent.


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## viktor89 (Oct 2, 2014)

deadlift666 said:


> Some days you'll be weak. Don't over think it unless it's consistent.



40 lbs weaker ? lol that's depressingly horrible since I'm doing that exercise after a whole week of break. (Only wednesday's)


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2014)

5 x 5 is a stupid program. Linear progression doesn't work. This is just further proof of that as if there wasn't already enough.

Get a better program like 531 cube Westside sheiko anything but 5x5


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## viktor89 (Oct 2, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> 5 x 5 is a stupid program. Linear progression doesn't work. This is just further proof of that as if there wasn't already enough.
> 
> Get a better program like 531 cube Westside sheiko anything but 5x5



Could you please provide a link or template ? I'll try to look up on google as well. 

I made impressive (According to me) gains. The total went from 665 to closer to just a little less than 800.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> Could you please provide a link or template ? I'll try to look up on google as well.
> 
> I made impressive (According to me) gains. The total went from 665 to closer to just a little less than 800.


Yes everyone makes progress at first. But it stops.

You can use the search box on our site for those programs. We should have some posts on them.


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## viktor89 (Oct 2, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yes everyone makes progress at first. But it stops.
> 
> You can use the search box on our site for those programs. We should have some posts on them.



Thanks. I found 5/3/1 spreadsheet. Wendler.

Based on my maxes -and the programs calculation it'll take me almost 2 months to get to where I am today with my 5 RM. 

Also, squating and benching just once a week -sounds counter-productive but still 

I'll give it a try and report back. Hopefully I won't lose my PR's since the first few weeks the weight seems very light. 



Thanks again.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 2, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yes everyone makes progress at first. But it stops.
> 
> You can use the search box on our site for those programs. We should have some posts on them.



All progress stops no matter the program when the stressor ceases to be enough to drive adaptation.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> All progress stops no matter the program when the stressor ceases to be enough to drive adaptation.


If you change the stimulus frequently enough then that can't happen. That's the whole theory behind the conjugate.


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm a fan of linear progression for the true novice. It generally runs it's course within a few months and then it's time move on to better programming. 

This is especially true with deadlifts. You can't pull heavy every week and expect to keep progressing for long.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 2, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> If you change the stimulus frequently enough then that can't happen. That's the whole theory behind the conjugate.



Then why do people running the conjugate method not squat 3000lbs? 

there are ways to tailor linear progression to get some huge totals and keep progression from stopping once newbie gains are finalized.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Then why do people running the conjugate method not squat 3000lbs?
> 
> there are ways to tailor linear progression to get some huge totals and keep progression from stopping once newbie gains are finalized.


That question makes no sense.  Probably because your spine would snap along with your femur and arms would dislocate. And that's if you could keep a grip on it.

There are always limitations to total potential.  But that doesn't mean a lift has to stall. You may only put 5lbs on your dead in 8 months but it's 5 more pounds.

Linear progression can do the opposite. Move you backwards.

What's the modification you mentioned?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 2, 2014)

DieYoungStrong said:


> I'm a fan of linear progression for the true novice. It generally runs it's course within a few months and then it's time move on to better programming.
> 
> This is especially true with deadlifts. You can't pull heavy every week and expect to keep progressing for long.



I've ran linear progression for well over a few months and it's yet to ever run it's course for myself and many others. In that time I've also deadlifted heavy every week and continued to make progress on the lift. There is no quicker way to increase strength in beginners and some intermediates than LP. You're assuming the program must work for the life of the athlete but there's a middle ground: run LP for as long as possible making the quickest strength gains possible. Once exhausted move onto a different program or alter the current program to better suit your needs. 

Lascek took linear progress up to a 600+lb squat. For a natural/non-drugged and raw/non-equipped lifter that's pretty impressive.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 2, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> That question makes no sense.  Probably because your spine would snap along with your femur and arms would dislocate. And that's if you could keep a grip on it.
> 
> There are always limitations to total potential.  But that doesn't mean a lift has to stall. You may only put 5lbs on your dead in 8 months but it's 5 more pounds.
> 
> ...



The question was meant to point out that progress at some point or another will always stop. You may only put 5lbs on your deads in 8 months but what happens after that? 5lbs in the next 10months, 5lbs in the following 14months, etc etc. You're reaching an upper limit to your progression no matter how you look at it. 

If lifts don't stall how would there ever be a limitation on total potential? I've seen many go backwards with the conjugate method as well it's not solely found in LP.


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 2, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> I've ran linear progression for well over a few months and it's yet to ever run it's course for myself and many others. In that time I've also deadlifted heavy every week and continued to make progress on the lift. There is no quicker way to increase strength in beginners and some intermediates than LP. You're assuming the program must work for the life of the athlete but there's a middle ground: run LP for as long as possible making the quickest strength gains possible. Once exhausted move onto a different program or alter the current program to better suit your needs.
> 
> Lascek took linear progress up to a 600+lb squat. For a natural/non-drugged and raw/non-equipped lifter that's pretty impressive.



Notice that I said GENERALLY....Lascek is an outlier. There's outlier's for everything.

We said the same thing, just differently. Run linear progression as long as possible. For your average lifter, it GENERALLY runs it's course withing a few months. 

If you can still pull heavy weekly, you're a better man then me I guess. I can't pull heavy more then 2x a month, and get my best gains lately pulling heavy once a month and conjugating the other weeks. I can assure you that my pull is not to shabby.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 2, 2014)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Notice that I said GENERALLY....Lascek is an outlier. There's outlier's for everything.
> 
> We said the same thing, just differently. Run linear progression as long as possible. For your average lifter, it GENERALLY runs it's course withing a few months.
> 
> If you can still pull heavy weekly, you're a better man then me I guess. I can't pull heavy more then 2x a month, and get my best gains lately pulling heavy once a month and conjugating the other weeks. I can assure you that my pull is not to shabby.



I read your post wrong. I thought you had said you were NOT a fan of LP for the novice. I apologize. I still disagree that it runs it's course in a few months since it can be used in intermediates as well since LP can be had on a weekly scale at that point instead of daily. 

Definitely not a better man than you lol. I pull less than you do and currently am fighting some nagging injuries. I also will see first hand how not shabby your pull is when in a couple weeks !hahaha


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## viktor89 (Oct 2, 2014)

This was my 3 month on Bill starr- so ran it 2 month and saw incredible gains and took 2 weeks off and started again with new PR and raping happened in Deadlift 3 weeks into the program as stated above. Even though I've already done this DL before and wasn't even my max effort. So I guess I ain't a beginner anymore.

I've downloaded the Wendler program, - looking at the program it seems easy since it's only squat once a week but as long as I'm making progress that's all I care about. 

Thanks all


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## Paolos (Oct 2, 2014)

Been 2 1/2 decades since I competed in a PL contest but my mentor (my pops) trained with Fred H and Ed C. We did some crazy stuff
not sue what you would call it but it was constantly changing. The focus was to shock the central nervous system, build connective tissue stregnth
subject the body to various load conditions (weight, duration and quantity). Everything from 10 sets of 10 reps to overloads (walk out with 125% of max).

Unfortunately I was young and just did as I was told and really did not keep good records. They did get my squat and DL over 500# before I was 19 yo.

Those guys were animals repping 700-800# like most of us rep 225 now.  For what it's worth just thow that in I guess the moral of the story is change.


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## widehips71 (Oct 2, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> and Oh! for what's it worth. I reduced my Bent over rows significantly to improve form. Now I'm sorta upside down almost 90 degree and I've noticed that it uses significant lower back strength.



I think the guys have you covered for DL.  I would like to point out that for BB rows we (the PL guys I train with) don't bend 90 degrees.  It's probably closer to 45.  We call it the gorilla lean


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 2, 2014)

widehips71 said:


> I think the guys have you covered for DL.  I would like to point out that for BB rows we (the PL guys I train with) don't bend 90 degrees.  It's probably closer to 45.  We call it the gorilla lean



Some guys like those, or "Shrows" if you will. I like Pendlay Rows for my BB rows. 90 degrees and the plates hit the floor every rep. I also do your version occasionally.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 2, 2014)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Some guys like those, or "Shrows" if you will. I like Pendlay Rows for my BB rows. 90 degrees and the plates hit the floor every rep. I also do your version occasionally.



I too do Pendlay rows. Each rep from a dead stop


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## widehips71 (Oct 2, 2014)

DieYoungStrong said:


> Some guys like those, or "Shrows" if you will. I like Pendlay Rows for my BB rows. 90 degrees and the plates hit the floor every rep. I also do your version occasionally.





Docd187123 said:


> I too do Pendlay rows. Each rep from a dead stop



I'm curious now if there is a benefit from one or another.  Before PL'n I always did them pendlay style but when I started training with these guys they didn't like that and made me switch up


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> The question was meant to point out that progress at some point or another will always stop. You may only put 5lbs on your deads in 8 months but what happens after that? 5lbs in the next 10months, 5lbs in the following 14months, etc etc. You're reaching an upper limit to your progression no matter how you look at it.
> 
> If lifts don't stall how would there ever be a limitation on total potential? I've seen many go backwards with the conjugate method as well it's not solely found in LP.


Yes they slow but you don't have to reset your program or even change programs.

5x5 is good or even great for beginners IMO because the focus is on heavy compounds that build your foundation.

But for intermediate and beyond it just doesn't work.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 2, 2014)

widehips71 said:


> I think the guys have you covered for DL.  I would like to point out that for BB rows we (the PL guys I train with) don't bend 90 degrees.  It's probably closer to 45.  We call it the gorilla lean


"Shrows" we call em


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## shenky (Oct 3, 2014)

im not a PL'er, nor am I a yogi. However, I have taken a couple of yoga classes, and one thing the yoga instructor said that stuck with me is that not everyday is the same; some days you will be weaker, less focused, but it's best to honor your body and do the best with what you have that day instead of getting frustrated


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## viktor89 (Oct 6, 2014)

shenky said:


> im not a PL'er, nor am I a yogi. However, I have taken a couple of yoga classes, and one thing the yoga instructor said that stuck with me is that not everyday is the same; some days you will be weaker, less focused, but it's best to honor your body and do the best with what you have that day instead of getting frustrated



After reading all the views and feedback I'd have to 

+1 with what you just said. 

I've experienced that with Meditation- sometimes there is just one mental/emotional block.


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