# Lower back mobility for the squat



## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

Does anyone have lower back mobility exercises? I have been doing quad and hip exercises but my lower back is still rounding a little at the bottom of the squat and when I do sets over 340# my back starts get very sore and fatigued, to the point where I struggle to complete the reps. Then, my lower back is sore the next day.

I do roll on the floor on my back like a roly poly during warm ups.


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## CJ (Mar 28, 2022)

Are you rounding because you lack hip mobility or ankle mobility? 

Your back is more than likely searching for ROM that one or both of those joints is not providing.


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## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

CJ said:


> Are you rounding because you lack hip mobility or ankle mobility?
> 
> Your back is more than likely searching for ROM that one or both of those joints is not providing.


It isn't my ankle mobility. I spend time in the bottom of the squat position during normal mobility work and can easily hold that position barefoot. Yesterday I was having this back issue in squat shoes which should help with any mobility issue. 

It could just be that despite my hip work my hips are not mobile enough yet.


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## Yano (Mar 28, 2022)




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## JuiceTrain (Mar 28, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> Stop being a bitch.



What he said...


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## Steeeve (Mar 28, 2022)

Post your squat hoss


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## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

JuiceTrain said:


> What he said...


That could have been anyone who said that


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## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

Steeeve said:


> Post your squat hoss



I will but I don't squat again till Sunday.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 28, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> I will but I don't squat again till Sunday.


Make an exception and pop a vid of 2-3 reps today


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## Steeeve (Mar 28, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> I will but I don't squat again till Sunday.


A video from the side and another from the front would be ideal.


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## SFGiants (Mar 28, 2022)




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## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

Front


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## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

Side


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## SFGiants (Mar 28, 2022)

I don't see a wink, I will say take a little more time before decent, you'll get even more stable doing so as you'll dial in getting tighter.

Looks good!


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## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

SFGiants said:


>


That is a helpful video.


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## SFGiants (Mar 28, 2022)

As the weight gets heavier you're going to also not want to pop it out of the rack, that has to be slower also.

3 steps back with heavier weight or you'll lose balance.

I think slowing down something with correct somethings.

The actual squat looks great but when it gets heavier you'll run into trouble if said things aren't addressed.


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## SFGiants (Mar 28, 2022)

There are a lot guys teaching squat that can't squat or know squat, Chris is a legend in the sport.


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## SFGiants (Mar 28, 2022)

You look like you're on the right track, some subtle adjustments will help get heavier weight unracked and walked out.


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## nissan11 (Mar 28, 2022)

I think there is a good chance that as the weight gets heavier and I am in a belt and wraps that I will butt wink more. If I feel good friday I will try to get in to that weight and post video. My back felt great at 315 and started feeling strained at 350.


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## SFGiants (Mar 29, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> I think there is a good chance that as the weight gets heavier and I am in a belt and wraps that I will butt wink more. If I feel good friday I will try to get in to that weight and post video. My back felt great at 315 and started feeling strained at 350.



It's the set up IMO, too fast and popping the bar out the rack.

Chris spoke on it as a set up thing and other possibilities.

I'd look at more video's from him and other elite lifters with a decade or more of competing and knowledge.

Look at his breathing video to help understand how to use air.


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## SFGiants (Mar 29, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> I think there is a good chance that as the weight gets heavier and I am in a belt and wraps that I will butt wink more. If I feel good friday I will try to get in to that weight and post video. My back felt great at 315 and started feeling strained at 350.


Also a bad wink problem happens with just the bar, even no bar!


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## Human_Backhoe (Mar 29, 2022)

@silentlemon1011 
@Test_subject 

?


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## silentlemon1011 (Mar 29, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> It's the set up IMO, too fast and popping the bar out the rack.
> 
> Chris spoke on it as a set up thing and other possibilities.
> 
> ...



Matt Vena does some great videos on Butt wink, and hes a world class PL obviously.

He actually has a noticeable wink on his low bar and doesnt really worry too much






I have minor butt wink on lowbar, but none on my ATG, I've been working on my ATG for mobility alarm Alan Thrall, I've definitly seen a direct translation to my parallel squats.

Thoughts?


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## SFGiants (Mar 29, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Matt Vena does some great videos on Butt wink, and hes a world class PL obviously.
> 
> He actually has a noticeable wink on his low bar and doesnt really worry too much
> 
> ...


I think a major wink is dangerous for the low back but slight not as much.

Most wink learning to squat in a suit at 1st, some really have to pay attention at max weight.

I think it matters on maximizing you glutes.


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## Test_subject (Mar 29, 2022)

One thing I definitely noticed is that you’re “popping” the weight off of the rack. That’s extremely bad for your back because you’re essentially bouncing the weight on top of your spine as the upward momentum shifts downward.

Try unracking with a smooth, steady push from the legs. Your spine will thank you down the road.

Other than that your squat looks good. As far as mobility goes, I like to do a few sets of very slow, super strict form bodyweight back extensions before squatting. It warms up the spinal erectors really well and helps to feel them so you keep your lower back tight.

Just my 2c.


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## CJ (Mar 29, 2022)

Here's what I'm seeing in the side view...

As you get about halfway down, your knees stop traveling forward, so your hips therefore have to move further back to keep the descent going as a result. And because of that, you are having to lean forward to keep the bar over your midfoot.

At the very end, it looks like your lacking the hip mobility to compensate for the lack of forward knee travel, and the break(rounding) in the lumbar spine is occurring.

Also looks like you have your elbows pointed backwards, which kind of pushes the bar forward, adding to the issue.

Just my opinion, I'm no expert.


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## SFGiants (Mar 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> Here's what I'm seeing in the side view...
> 
> As you get about halfway down, your knees stop traveling forward, so your hips therefore have to move further back to keep the descent going as a result. And because of that, you are having to lean forward to keep the bar over your midfoot.
> 
> ...


The bar is following a straight up and down path until he get to the bottom, heavier weight will start to fold him.

I think he is just too loose!

He needs to get tight and stay tight the whole lift from top and back up, rest rest each rep getting tight. He don't even set up and unrack tight.

It gets easier over time!


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## SFGiants (Mar 29, 2022)

He is on the right path, just needs to define some things!


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## Steeeve (Mar 29, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> Side


I dont see anything to be concerned about. Other members may have differing opinions but I wouldnt waste much time chasing ghosts here. The only thing that really immediately jumps out is in your front view you track your knees a bit outside of your feet. Not the end of the world, but you may enjoy widening your stance to the point your feet remain under your knees when youre fully in the hole. 

My lowback and posterior chain sees a TON of fatigue and work in my lowbar squats, this isnt necessarily an indication that youre doing anything wrong. For me its the result of my femur length coupled with a short torso and lowbar positioning. I adjust programming and intensity in relation to the other posteriorly demanding days (the other squat day and both deadlift days) and keep it moving.


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## Steeeve (Mar 29, 2022)

Steve Pruit on Instagram: "W1 Recap   1) Pause Squat 160 / 352 x 5 2) Bench 132.5 / 292 x 8 3) Sumo 215 / 474 x 5 4) Smol rant I went on during this week's podcast episode. Link in bio 🙃   Squats - went with pause squats to improve positioning with t
					

Steve Pruit shared a post on Instagram: "W1 Recap   1) Pause Squat 160 / 352 x 5 2) Bench 132.5 / 292 x 8 3) Sumo 215 / 474 x 5 4) Smol rant I went on during this week's podcast episode. Link in bio 🙃   Squats - went with pause squats to improve positioning with the new stance, grip, and bar...




					www.instagram.com
				




You can see my levers and bar placement dictate how far back I have to sit and how far forward my knees have to go. In order to keep the bar and my center of gravity over midfoot I have to use a bit of torso angle in the hole. This FOR SURE can lead to my lowback and posterior chain feeling WORKED after a voluminous squat session.


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## Trendkill (Mar 31, 2022)

Google quadratus lumborum stretches.

try harder to maintain your arch in the low back even if it means you can’t go as deep. 

do bent over sled drags with that bad ass home built masterpiece To stretch and strengthen the hammies. 

Ditch the Capitals shirt.


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## nissan11 (Mar 31, 2022)

It may be that my lower back is not conditioned.

For the first time in a couple months I did sets of 8 with deadlift yesterday and my lower back was SO fatigued. Maybe I should incorporate more deadlift or good morning volume days.


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## Caligrower (Apr 1, 2022)

Have you tried putting the bar a little lower on your back?


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## nissan11 (Apr 1, 2022)

Caligrower said:


> Have you tried putting the bar a little lower on your back?


I have not ever tried lowbar squatting.


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## Cochino (Apr 1, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> I have not ever tried lowbar squatting.


You probably should. Everyone is different,  but the lower places less emphasis on the back for me.

Also when I warm up and do it  with heavier weights,  I  will do 3-4 reps with a partial rom. It gets the blood going and for me it helps me focus on  my posture.


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## nissan11 (Apr 1, 2022)

Cochino said:


> You probably should. Everyone is different,  but the lower places less emphasis on the back for me.
> 
> Also when I warm up and do it  with heavier weights,  I  will do 3-4 reps with a partial rom. It gets the blood going and for me it helps me focus on  my posture.



I will experiment with it, but I think bending over more is going to end up giving my bad hip more trouble than high bar. We'll see.


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## Butch_C (Apr 1, 2022)

Try a little wider stance with your toes pointed slightly further out.  Your knees do stop traveling forward near bottom which can be due to ankle mobility or tight calves. You are almost to parallel but not quite, that only really matters if you are going to be competing. Look into a mobility strap to help stretch your calves and hips, this did wonders for me. I would take a hot shower, dry off and go right into stretching.


			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076MSZZ9L?pd_rd_i=B076MSZZ9L&pd_rd_w=b4dk7&pf_rd_p=7672bfb7-93b0-4322-b745-2104db09c4df&pd_rd_wg=Se7KC&pf_rd_r=AB1PAHBJ1DVYW8B7M13R&pd_rd_r=aefeea8d-58be-4c3f-a5a2-c94c74b93ed4


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 1, 2022)

Cochino said:


> You probably should. Everyone is different,  but the lower places less emphasis on the back for me.
> 
> Also when I warm up and do it  with heavier weights,  I  will do 3-4 reps with a partial rom. It gets the blood going and for me it helps me focus on  my posture.



Back story
Nissan has hip issues/injury and pain.
So a low bar wider stance squat will probably put too much stress on the hip flexors

I agree that EVERYONE should be low bar squatting in occasion, to overload the weight and really activate the posterior chain

But I'd wait a while @nissan11 until your hip feels better
A scary idea to try learning to open the hips and work on a new form while injured.


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## silentlemon1011 (Apr 1, 2022)

Cochino said:


> You probably should. Everyone is different,  but the lower places less emphasis on the back for me.
> 
> Also when I warm up and do it  with heavier weights,  I  will do 3-4 reps with a partial rom. It gets the blood going and for me it helps me focus on  my posture.



Also yeah, with my herniated disks, I almost cant heavy high bar anymore
Low bar has been a life saver...
Other than my elbows... they hurt so much lol


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## Caligrower (Apr 1, 2022)

If you have ankle mobility problems you could also try a 5lb under your heals. I squat in Olympic shoes when I go heavy.


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## nissan11 (Apr 1, 2022)

Caligrower said:


> If you have ankle mobility problems you could also try a 5lb under your heals. I squat in Olympic shoes when I go heavy.



I have squat shoes I use on occasion and at meets. They don't make any difference than flat shoes.


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## Butch_C (Apr 1, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Back story
> Nissan has hip issues/injury and pain.
> So a low bar wider stance squat will probably put too much stress on the hip flexors
> 
> ...


This is important info. A hip injury that is not healed needs to be rehabbed and stabilized first before any heavy compound movements. Work on slowly stretching the area when warm, exercise the hip extensors and flexors, do hip abduction and adduction exercises at lighter weights. Use hip circles and do body weight squats. Then keep working your way up. You may already be past some of this but I don't know the full story.


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## nissan11 (Apr 1, 2022)

Butch_C said:


> This is important info. A hip injury that is not healed needs to be rehabbed and stabilized first before any heavy compound movements. Work on slowly stretching the area when warm, exercise the hip extensors and flexors, do hip abduction and adduction exercises at lighter weights. Use hip circles and do body weight squats. Then keep working your way up. You may already be past some of this but I don't know the full story.



I am past most of that. I am still doing mobility for the hips, groin, quads and hamstring. Ive slowly worked back up to about 80% of 1RM. The hip does not hurt during squat anymore but is sore afterwards for a couple days.


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## Butch_C (Apr 1, 2022)

Sounds like you are on the right track. Wider stance often gives more hip mobility but since you are rehabbing you may need to drop weight a little and then work your way back up.


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## Cochino (Apr 2, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> I will experiment with it, but I think bending over more is going to end up giving my bad hip more trouble than high bar. We'll see.


Idk give it a try with lighter weight starting out. Warm up with some goblet squats.  They force you to keep correct posture.


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## Cochino (Apr 2, 2022)

Back extensions,  foam roll, hip raises may help as well


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## Cochino (Apr 2, 2022)

Cochino said:


> Back extensions,  foam roll, hip raises may help as well.


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## Cochino (Apr 2, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> I have squat shoes I use on occasion and at meets. They don't make any difference than flat shoes.


Yeah I can't tell the difference either. I prefer flat shoes . If you have ankle problems it might be a different story.


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## nissan11 (Apr 3, 2022)

It was squat day. I worked up to a heavy triple of 385 which is the heaviest weight I've attempted since hitting 418 at my meet last August, due to nagging injuries and having to train for a marathon. My lower back felt very strained on my 3rd to last set which was 355. For the last 2 sets I focused on pushing my knees slightly wider and that helped a LOT. The last 2 sets felt great.


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## FlyingPapaya (Apr 5, 2022)

You could try throwing a light band around your legs just below knee. You'll feel it pull your knees together and you will actively fight against it pushing them out.


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## SFGiants (Apr 5, 2022)

nissan11 said:


> It was squat day. I worked up to a heavy triple of 385 which is the heaviest weight I've attempted since hitting 418 at my meet last August, due to nagging injuries and having to train for a marathon. My lower back felt very strained on my 3rd to last set which was 355. For the last 2 sets I focused on pushing my knees slightly wider and that helped a LOT. The last 2 sets felt great.



Looks good, there always seems to be something to que and focus on like knees out.


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## SFGiants (Apr 5, 2022)

By the way, wraps, briefs and suits will always force you to focus on knees as they will wanna cave them in for you lol.


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## FlyingPapaya (Apr 5, 2022)

For me just adopting a more toes out helped allot.


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