# No Pre = Surprisingly good workouts



## DavidtoZeus (Dec 13, 2015)

Hey guys,

I have been a pre workout junky for the last eight years.  Like many people I have basically become dependent on them in order to even think about heading into a workout.  Well, out of nowhere I decided to try working out pre free about a week ago and have been happily surprised with the results.  My energy has been great, i feel more motivated to do cardio, and my pumps have actually been better.  A couple cups of black coffee and I have been good to go.  So if you haven't had a break from pres in a while give it a try.  At the least it will save you a couple bucks.  Initially I was hoping to take a break for a little bit to get my tolerance back down before I start my first cycle tomorrow.  Now I'm thinking about just dropping them all together.  

Best,

DavidtoZeus


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## John Ziegler (Dec 13, 2015)

A couple black cups of coffee is a "pre" a cheap one but yes it is a stimulant and is considered a "pre". That being said I know what you mean and good for you I'm glad your doing well in the gym thats awesome high 5.


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## MrChasingThePump (Dec 13, 2015)

haha yaaa black coffee and almonds will take me along way. I still take some preworkout here and there, but i'm stuck lifting at the end of my day.. dont like being wired all night


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 13, 2015)

Black market pre workouts are nothing to scoff at though 

Cialis 
Insulin
Anavar or anadrol 
Test no Ester

You will train like never before


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## ToolSteel (Dec 13, 2015)

With my luck the cialis would just give me a pants pump


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## thqmas (Dec 13, 2015)

We all want to be strong.

Being dependent on anything to pass your workout or day - is just being weak.

Finding the power to do something when you don't want to, is real power.

When I look at a task I have to do, and I feel I don't want to do it, I do it as fast as I can and with all my power just to say "fuk you brain, I'm stronger that you!".

No need for pre-workouts, just one scoop of "being a man" and a grain of Willpower. Just put it in your shaker with water, milk, or orange juice, shake it good, you'll thank me later.


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## Ritch (Dec 13, 2015)

thqmas said:


> We all want to be strong.
> 
> Being dependent on anything to pass your workout or day - is just being weak.
> 
> ...



Nootropics and stims increase your reps, endurance, intensity and focus. The way you describe not taking this stuff and being a "man" would be the same as someone who is anti steroid to say "how about you do those workouts drug free"

See what I'm getting at here?


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## mickems (Dec 13, 2015)

Never under estimate the power of coffee.


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## trodizzle (Dec 13, 2015)

I drink beer for my pre workout


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## ToolSteel (Dec 13, 2015)

Ritch said:


> Nootropics and stims increase your reps, endurance, intensity and focus. The way you describe not taking this stuff and being a "man" would be the same as someone who is anti steroid to say "how about you do those workouts drug free"
> 
> See what I'm getting at here?


My thoughts exactly. Stims work. Period. 
So you can "man up" and do your workout? Good. Keep that mentality AND add a good pre. Boom. 

I'll take anything (within reason) that makes me better. That's why we use hormones to our advantage. If a scoop of magic unicorn powder is gonna get me a few more reps, placebo or not, you're damn right I'm gonna take it.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 13, 2015)

Ritch said:


> Nootropics and stims increase your reps, endurance, intensity and focus. The way you describe not taking this stuff and being a "man" would be the same as someone who is anti steroid to say "how about you do those workouts drug free"
> 
> See what I'm getting at here?



To be dependent on it however is different.  "Oh shit I forgot to take my pre" for some means they WILL have a bad workout 

Same for drugs. I see dudes prepping for meets on 3g of gear and bench 300.  They are dependent on it.

Dependence is much different than using for performance enhancement.

I think tq was talking about mental aspects not physiological anyway


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## ToolSteel (Dec 13, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> To be dependent on it however is different.  "Oh shit I forgot to take my pre" for some means they WILL have a bad workout
> 
> Same for drugs. *I see dudes prepping for meets on 3g of gear and bench 300.  They are dependent on it.*
> 
> ...


Seriously?


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## Seeker (Dec 13, 2015)

Never used a pre and never will. Coffee is as far as I've gone. I personally think people who take stimulants while on the sauce are just asking for trouble.


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## HydroEJP88 (Dec 13, 2015)

That's insane. So I must be superhuman lmao


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## HydroEJP88 (Dec 13, 2015)

Certain pre-workouts work good for me while others feel like I'm going to die. The part that sucks is that there is only one way to find out


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## thqmas (Dec 13, 2015)

Ritch said:


> Nootropics and stims increase your reps, endurance, intensity and focus. The way you describe not taking this stuff and being a "man" would be the same as someone who is anti steroid to say "how about you do those workouts drug free"
> 
> See what I'm getting at here?



Edit2: Yes, yes... I see. lol


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## ToolSteel (Dec 13, 2015)

Seeker said:


> Never used a pre and never will. Coffee is as far as I've gone. I personally think people who take stimulants while on the sauce are just asking for trouble.


I'll agree with you there. Off cycle, I'm a stim junkie. But once I'm a few weeks into a cycle, and things are building, I taper off. Right now my "pre workout" is usually coffee and a pack of pop tarts. 

I think the main reason I like them so much though is because o workout really freaking early, and I'm NOT a morning person.


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 13, 2015)

Tyrosine + caffeine + ephedrine + 1,3 DMAA + Insulin + cookies = awesomeness 
I really want to add some Cialis in there after hearing so much about it but need to be sure about the potentially negative drug interactions first. 

I agree with not being dependent on prewo's but they certainly have their place. 
Try dieting down nattie to contest ready condition and then come and tell me how its all in the mind, being a man, etc because all that psychological stuff doesn't change the fact that physically your not going to be able to perform at the same level. Trust me, I've been there.


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## Ritch (Dec 13, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> To be dependent on it however is different.  "Oh shit I forgot to take my pre" for some means they WILL have a bad workout
> 
> Same for drugs. I see dudes prepping for meets on *3g of gear and bench 300*.  They are dependent on it.
> 
> ...



LOL! That's one gram of gear per 100lbs of bench (about...) hahaha...

But as for the stims... I got a list of stuff I use, don't use everything the same training, but unless it's a light week, I use at least some tyrosine, caffeine, 8mg ephedrine as a min. That is very tame, but I taper up with the weeks and add more products. I love my stims and nootropics!!!

If something increases lifts, focus and is not harmful, why restrict it?


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## Ritch (Dec 13, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> T*yrosine + caffeine + ephedrine + 1,3 DMAA + Insulin + cookies = awesomeness *
> I really want to add some Cialis in there after hearing so much about it but need to be sure about the potentially negative drug interactions first.
> 
> I agree with not being dependent on prewo's but they certainly have their place.
> Try dieting down nattie to contest ready condition and then come and tell me how its all in the mind, being a man, etc because all that psychological stuff doesn't change the fact that physically your not going to be able to perform at the same level. Trust me, I've been there.




I love the shit in bold also.

YOu gotta try adrafanil. Don't get the caps as 300mg is way too much. My sweet spot is 150-200mg, takes 2hrs to fully kick in and lasts a long time. No crash.

I use it with everything you list there, but maybe 3mg yohimbe. I rarely use geranium as it burns my CNS. Stuff is wicked strong, will use the week before I know I'm gonna take a light or off week to make sure the off period is warranted...


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## HydroEJP88 (Dec 13, 2015)

None of that sounds like fun to me


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## MrRippedZilla (Dec 13, 2015)

Ritch said:


> I love the shit in bold also.
> 
> YOu gotta try adrafanil. Don't get the caps as 300mg is way too much. My sweet spot is 150-200mg, takes 2hrs to fully kick in and lasts a long time. No crash.
> 
> I use it with everything you list there, but maybe 3mg yohimbe. I rarely use geranium as it burns my CNS. Stuff is wicked strong, will use the week before I know I'm gonna take a light or off week to make sure the off period is warranted...



Adding yohimbe to the mix does way too much weird shit to my BP & HR. If I do use it, which is rare, I tend to take in isolation with no other stims in my system.

Adrafinil is interesting but its exact MOA (mechanism of action) and how much it binds to what receptors is unclear, which is why I'm hesitant to use/recommend it. 
The problem with most drugs that lead to an increase in dopamine levels (stims via catecholamine release, DAs, modafinil, etc) is that they can also lead to a decrease in Serotonin. 
Without knowing exactly what receptors the drug binds to and to what degree, it becomes impossible to achieve a balance in dopamine/serotonin levels - that's a bad thing in the long term. Nice little paper talking about the dopamine/serotonin relationship for those interested: 
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v36/n1/pdf/npp2010151a.pdf

Basically, more is not always better


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## SuperBane (Dec 14, 2015)

13dmaa ... I hate that shit. That's what I assume meth is like. And adding that to ephedrine just sounds like asking for all sorts of trouble.

cialis and ephedrine are opposites as well right? Vasodilator and a


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## ToolSteel (Dec 14, 2015)

SuperBane said:


> 13dmaa ... I hate that shit. That's what I assume meth is like. And adding that to ephedrine just sounds like asking for all sorts of trouble.
> 
> cialis and ephedrine are opposites as well right? Vasodilator and a



Shit. Someone snubbed him off mid sentence.


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## trodizzle (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm a pre junky. I admit it.


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## anewguy (Dec 14, 2015)

Yeah I always have had trouble getting away from them.  The anavar that I am going to use will be a good replacement for now.


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## John Ziegler (Dec 14, 2015)

Quit the caffeine back in July since then have been getting into energy foods. 

Spaghetti -squash tossed with red onions, kale, mushrooms, carrots and chick peas in a Massaman coconut curry sauce,
topped with a grilled sweet potato round and fresh cilantro.









The Spaghetti a can of rootbeer & the b12 is a good preworkout. Then I usually eat an apple in the gym.



trodizzle said:


> I'm a pre junky. I admit it.



Are you willing to admit you've been shaving your arm's ?


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## baitslinger (Dec 20, 2015)

Black Coffee
Primatene or Bronkaid for the Ephedrine
Baby Aspirin
Used to.like DMAA before.they banned it.


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## saltylifter (Jan 15, 2016)

magic unicorn powder sounds like a ****ing good time during a workout toolsteel.
no pre workout or 5 scoops of pre workout, does it really matter as long as your getting what you need done for yourself and your goals.


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