# Preserving muscle but reducing bodyfat



## Milos_97 (Oct 19, 2016)

Hey,


I was always curious about one thing,can you preserve muscle when you re cutting?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 19, 2016)

You can. Maintain an appropriate protein intake and minimize training volume while maintaining or increasing training intensity.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 20, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> You can. Maintain an appropriate protein intake and minimize training volume while maintaining or increasing training intensity.



I always add that carb intake is important here too.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 20, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> I always add that carb intake is important here too.



Carb intake & training volume are part of the same equation. 

If training volume is minimized, as Doc suggested, then carb intake becomes less important (ie you can drop it low). If you want to maintain/increase training volume (stupid thing to do when in a deficit but w/e) then carb intake becomes a lot more important. 
In fact, low carb intake + high volume training is an easy path to muscle loss regardless of protein intake IME.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 20, 2016)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Carb intake & training volume are part of the same equation.
> 
> If training volume is minimized, as Doc suggested, then carb intake becomes less important (ie you can drop it low). If you want to maintain/increase training volume (stupid thing to do when in a deficit but w/e) then carb intake becomes a lot more important.
> In fact, low carb intake + high volume training is an easy path to muscle loss regardless of protein intake IME.



Generalizing here - but most people who ask if muscle loss can be avoided while losing fat have no idea what volume is or what is enough too much or too little.


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## grizzldsealpoacher (Oct 20, 2016)

Hey everybody! Just my opinion but I feel at least in my fat loss muscle building journey, I found that restricting cals just left me flat in the gym and hungry all the time setting me up to eventually binge and kill the diet I was trying to follow . Cutting is something I feel should be done by more advanced people in there journey b/c it takes a ton a discipline to restrict your bodies natural urges to eat. I always try to find a middle ground with someone asking how to cut fat and gain muscle in the newb stages of there fitness . Usually the person just needs to asses their diet and clean it up, cut out the crap and that leaves a lot of room to eat . Eat to gain muscle and the mass building will will burn the fat. The higher volume and intensity that can be achieved eating well will help to lose the fat while gaining strength and muscle. Again its just what worked well for me . Its a long road and a constant learning experience, Training heavy and at max intensity in my opinion is as good at fat burning as any cardio and its really hard to do on a empty stomach


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 20, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Generalizing here - but most people who ask if muscle loss can be avoided while losing fat have no idea what volume is or what is enough too much or too little.



Apologies to the OP if this gets OTT at any point but since is actually an interesting topic that I've been discussing endlessly for the past few months with other coaches 

Let's start with definitions:
Training load (mistaken referred to as "volume" by some people) = intensity x volume
Volume = sets/reps/training density (rest periods, tempo, etc)
Intensity = weight on the bar

As a small side note, "intensity" actually refers to tension on the muscle (the KEY to maintaining/gaining mass) but since "tension" isn't something that can be objectively measured outside of a lab setting, it is used interchangeably with weight on the bar since that is how we create maximal tension PROVIDED that there are no issues with technique (big assumption but whatever). 

So when we say keep intensity high and volume low, we mean maintaining the amount of weight on the bar necessary to max out tension on the muscle (5-12RMs with a focus on 8RMs IME) while reducing the amount of work done at that level of intensity. 
The reason for this reduction is primarily twofold: 1) It takes less work to maintain than it does grow anyway and 2) the very nature of being in an energy deficit means that a drop off in work output HAS to occur somewhere in order to maximize the end results (think of it as trying to travel the same amount of miles on a full vs 60-90% fuel tank, shit isn't happening). 

So now that we have some definitions in place, we get to discussing the questions of how much of a drop off in volume is required and the answer to that is not generic - it's entirely dependent on the volume that was required to generate the results to begin with. This again assumes a decent programme was in place to begin with because plenty of people train with high volume when they MAY have generated the equivalent results with a more minimal approach - shitty programming will **** up the estimations of the amount of drop off in that is required when dieting. 
Assuming a decent programme, I tend to recommend starting with a drop in volume equivalent to level of energy deficit that has been created REGARDLESS of carb intake (energy balance > macros when it comes to this stuff). 
From there, depending on the data you look into, we can get away with reducing volume by up to 66% with no negative repercussions when it comes to body recomp - I've personally never reduced it by that much with my max being around 50%.  
So I would continue dropping volume as the client gets leaner with the "max" level of drop off occurring at the leanest level. The level of reduction would take into account current performance, macros, cardio and pretty much everything else that can eat up recovery ability. 

The big area of debate between myself & other coaches concerns whether or not it is necessary to start off with a drop in volume vs keeping it the say until it becomes necessary later on. 
The argument for the former is that we may be able to keep growing during the initial stages of a diet since the body takes a few weeks to realize what's actually going on (lack of energy supply isn't temporary). 
The argument for the latter (my approach, which is the correct one) is that by cutting volume immediately it allows us to create a larger caloric deficit (less carbs needed to maintain performance) and therefore finish the dieting phase quicker = focus back on growing. I found this to be better for allowing athletes to grow into a show but will admit that its not exactly the "common" approach taken by most -they follow the whole "nice and slow" broscience.

Summary:
- Volume refers to sets, reps, rest periods and tempo
- It needs to be reduced when dieting by at least an amount equivalent to the energy deficit created.
- From there, further reductions should be made depending on the size of the deficit, length of dieting, macro breakdown, how you feel, etc with the knowledge that up to a 66% reduction (50% from my experience) seems to have no negative implications for body recomp.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 20, 2016)

Love me some rippedzilla


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 20, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> I always add that carb intake is important here too.



Damn, I opened up Pandora's box bere lol. 

You've seen Doc eat IRL. You know Doc loves his carbs


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 20, 2016)

Love me some doc


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## Rage Strength (Oct 20, 2016)

Of course! It's more than possible to lose body fat and gain muscle as well, naturally in the right circumstances. It's about finding the balance of lifting while gaining strength through progressive overload and not overreaching or overtraining, getting right nutrients in for YOUR individual needs, and of course a slight deficit if trying to lose faster. Think of your body as a furnace, best analogy I can give. Good luck!


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## snake (Oct 20, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> You can. Maintain an appropriate protein intake and minimize training volume while maintaining or increasing training intensity.





PillarofBalance said:


> Generalizing here - but most people who ask if muscle loss can be avoided while losing fat have no idea what volume is or what is enough too much or too little.



Put these both together and you have a low fat diet. That's what I've been saying all along.

I do so love it when Doc and POB agree with me.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 20, 2016)

snake said:


> Put these both together and you have a low fat diet. That's what I've been saying all along.
> 
> I do so love it when Doc and POB agree with me.



Send me more of your meat and I'll say anything you want lol


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## Milos_97 (Oct 20, 2016)

Thanks so much everyone especially zilla


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## ToolSteel (Oct 20, 2016)

Based on the pics you posted in your other thread, I wouldn't be too concerned with recomping right now. Your bf is low enough that a slow steady bulk would suit you well.


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## Milos_97 (Oct 20, 2016)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Apologies to the OP if this gets OTT at any point but since is actually an interesting topic that I've been discussing endlessly for the past few months with other coaches
> 
> Let's start with definitions:
> Training load (mistaken referred to as "volume" by some people) = intensity x volume
> ...




Thanks so much !


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## Milos_97 (Oct 20, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Based on the pics you posted in your other thread, I wouldn't be too concerned with recomping right now. Your bf is low enough that a slow steady bulk would suit you well.



are you sure?because when i sit down my gut literally "jumps" out


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## Anabolic Reality (Nov 24, 2016)

Simple answer...in essence thats what anabolics provide during a cutting cycle.


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## Sapper (Nov 24, 2016)

so where is a good baseline for your carbs? .5grams of carbs/pound of lean body mass?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 24, 2016)

Sapper said:


> so where is a good baseline for your carbs? .5grams of carbs/pound of lean body mass?



Fill whatever calories you have left with carbs after filling protein and fat needs. Then tweak from there if needed.


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