# Tren and the liver and kidneys



## Cyborg (Aug 3, 2012)

Hey guys. I'm contemplating a tren cycle in the future for a cut, but some of the things I'm reading on other boards has me a little skeptical. What effect does trenbolone really have on the liver and kidneys? Some damage is understandable, but some guys on other boards are saying they are pissing blood on cycle. Whether it's bs or not I don't know. Help a bro out SI, what are the facts?


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## DarksideSix (Aug 3, 2012)

i've never had any problems like that and i've ran trenn quite a few times.  i did however take plenty of milk thistle whilst on. I just had some blood work done a few weeks ago right after my last tren cycle and liver was fine.


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## basskiller (Aug 3, 2012)

are these possible.. certainly.. At doses a person should be using.. doubtful, but still the same, could happen. Each person is different.. Those guys that say they were pissing blood.. Well.. do they party (drink heavily) .. how many other steroids were they on.. what were they.. All this and more can be contributing factors.  And who knows.. Might be genetic. If the already have a malfuctioning liver or kidneys.. then the added stress of any of the more potent steroids can cause similar effects.. 

Some discount things like cranberry extract for helping the kidneys and certain other products for your liver.. I say they are beneficial..  

Lastly.. While many say never do tren alone due to this or that..I say how exactly can you tell what a particular steroid does for you unless you try it alone?   start at a low dose and see (poviding you do decide to go forward with tren) 50mgs ed or 100mgs eod ..  
It's a learning process all of us have to go through to know what works, what works better and at what is the optimal dose for us.. Combining steroids.. How do you know which one is doing what at first?


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 3, 2012)

hey dark you can quit wasting your money on milk thistle bro...that shit is junk...It might not even be enough to protect your liver against alcohol...milk thistle and liv 52 both are not made for hardcore support. NAC would be far better then either one of those.

op...There are no medical studies done to prove that tren has any effect on the liver or kidneys. I dont see it having much effect on the liver. However, based on my experience it does have an effect on the kidneys. How pronounced the effect is I cannot say but I do know guys on dialysis from tren. These guys also abused it. Ran it to long and to high. If there are guys pissing blood then they have done something majorly wrong. Just make sure you dont run a shit ton for a long time lol

The best thing you can do while on tren is to drink a fuck ton of water so your kidneys are not working as hard to filter your blood...when your pee is light yellow you are perfect. Just be safe brotha


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 3, 2012)

basskiller said:


> are these possible.. certainly.. At doses a person should be using.. doubtful, but still the same, could happen. Each person is different.. Those guys that say they were pissing blood.. Well.. do they party (drink heavily) .. how many other steroids were they on.. what were they.. All this and more can be contributing factors.  And who knows.. Might be genetic. If the already have a malfuctioning liver or kidneys.. then the added stress of any of the more potent steroids can cause similar effects..
> 
> Some discount things like cranberry extract for helping the kidneys and certain other products for your liver.. I say they are beneficial..
> 
> ...



NEVER RUN TREN ALONE!

If you want to do a steroid by itself then test is the answer....after you find out what test does for/to ya then add just tren and go that route...do not run a steroid alone to find out what it does because I can garantee you if you run anything but test alone you will not enjoy it


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## DarksideSix (Aug 3, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> hey dark you can quit wasting your money on milk thistle bro...that shit is junk...It might not even be enough to protect your liver against alcohol...milk thistle and liv 52 both are not made for hardcore support. NAC would be far better then either one of those.
> 
> op...There are no medical studies done to prove that tren has any effect on the liver or kidneys. I dont see it having much effect on the liver. However, based on my experience it does have an effect on the kidneys. How pronounced the effect is I cannot say but I do know guys on dialysis from tren. These guys also abused it. Ran it to long and to high. If there are guys pissing blood then they have done something majorly wrong. Just make sure you dont run a shit ton for a long time lol
> 
> The best thing you can do while on tren is to drink a fuck ton of water so your kidneys are not working as hard to filter your blood...when your pee is light yellow you are perfect. Just be safe brotha



what is NAC???


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## Pikiki (Aug 3, 2012)

DarksideSix said:


> what is NAC???



N-acetyl Cysteine (or NAC) is a more stable form of the amino acid L-Cysteine. As a precursor to L-Cysteine, NAC and helps the body synthesize Glutathione. NAC possesses antioxidant properties that may help fight cell-damaging free radicals. Studies have shown that oxidative stress caused by free radicals may contribute to premature aging of cells. 

There is also products that combine NAC with Milk thistle and work good IMO.


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## basskiller (Aug 4, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> NEVER RUN TREN ALONE!
> 
> If you want to do a steroid by itself then test is the answer....after you find out what test does for/to ya then add just tren and go that route...do not run a steroid alone to find out what it does because I can garantee you if you run anything but test alone you will not enjoy it


 Why? 

I've run tren on many occsassions alone  
I've run orals on their own.. especially Turinabol. There was a big blow up that it was doing absolutely nothing for many guys when turinabol first the boards years back.. I asked how could they tell due to the fact they were on several other steroids .. How the is it  that they weren't seing any more gains when they took and added Tbol to a cycle they ran in the past was no evidence that it wasn't working or to just blame it on the Tbol.. There could have been any number of factors that played into it.. 
 So I ran it by itself. 

Now I have done this on many other things as well.. I now know what works for me the best and in what combination. I've also found that all these latest and greatest cycle do not give me any more gains than my test-e/tren-a  or test /deca cycles give me at much lower doses than most recomend on the these boards.  

I guess where we differ is that I like knowing what each compound does to me, not the general public. Always have been that way.


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## 63Vette (Aug 4, 2012)

I can testify to the fact that we are all different and IMHO that is where we can find value in 'bro science'.  We can all read and learn about what 'real science' says will or can happen and the characteristics of the gear we use but sometimes we are a minority or an anomaly. For example, I have learned that if I eat very low carbs, and consume those early in the day. I do NOT get night sweats on Tren. I cannot give you any scientific basis for this phenomenon. I have alse heard of several guys who run Tren, Dbol and a few others alone without the test 'base'. I do NOT, but I have seen it done by some pretty damn solid bros. 

Now, Bass, the way I can tell what a specific compound is doing is only semi relevant in my case.  By keeping the compound (i.e. test, mast, deca) at a higher level than the test it helps me know pretty much what the compound is doing but the reason it doesn't much matter to me is because I cruise and blast and so I am much more interested in what the synergistic effects are. 

The value in bro science is that sometimes something unorthodox happens to you, or when you do something unorthodox that works for you, and with bro science you can usually find others with similar experiences who can help shed light on your specific situation.


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## Lulu66 (Aug 4, 2012)

I never had kidney problems with tren. But i had pissed blood due to severe dehidration, which is easly achieved when using tren, if you are not consumming enough water.


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## TheLupinator (Aug 4, 2012)

I agree with Cobra....and Bass

Always run Test AND run shit by itself to find out how it is specifically affecting you. This can be achieved by running a trt dose of 100-200mg/week. This way you are only feeling the anabolic/androgenic effects of 1 compound because the your test is at a relatively normal level... as far as running a compound without any test at all--> Na Brahh, my dick aint big enough to be fuckin girls half limp Lol


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## Cyborg (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for the responses gentlemen. Great info here.


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 4, 2012)

If you can't tell when something is working while running test then you don't know your body very well...I WILL never condone running anything without test...its not bro science either...everything shuts down natty test....everything. running something that's not test by itself is stupid...but that's my opinion...you guys can do what you want to your bodies

Ps...don't let dadawg see this shit


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## stb1041 (Aug 4, 2012)

Cobra:  How do you feel about man powers liver aid? it has 400mg of NAC in it along with some other stuff.


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## NbleSavage (Aug 4, 2012)

Bump - good discussion here.


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## Cobra Strike (Aug 4, 2012)

stb1041 said:


> Cobra:  How do you feel about man powers liver aid? it has 400mg of NAC in it along with some other stuff.



Let me take a look pob....but they are already a leg up by having nac in the mix! Honestly guys, I never use liver aid. Here is how I do it: while running orals I don't consume alcohol. While running just injectables I drink once a week. No liver damage here and no elevated enzymes while off. We need to remember that your liver is a rejuvinating organ which means it repairs itself to a point. I'm a lot more concerned about my kidneys on a cycle then anything else.


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## Cyborg (Aug 4, 2012)

I take NAC on and off cycle. I feel it helps for general health. It has great antioxidative properties.


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## 63Vette (Aug 4, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> Let me take a look pob....but they are already a leg up by having nac in the mix! Honestly guys, I never use liver aid. Here is how I do it: while running orals I don't consume alcohol. While running just injectables I drink once a week. No liver damage here and no elevated enzymes while off. We need to remember that your liver is a rejuvinating organ which means it repairs itself to a point. I'm a lot more concerned about my kidneys on a cycle then anything else.




The liver is an amazing organ and the only organ we have that can rejuvenate itself.  That being said, if you exceed the 'tipping' point by combining unhealthy foods, alcohol, orals and push it too far - you can do permanent damage. Moderation is the key. I have taken NAC and Milk thistle and liver care but I cannot say I have noticed anything positive from any of them. I do not drink at all- haven't in 20 years and I eat very clean - so blasting or using orals moderately has never had any negative impacts.

Yep- the liver can seriously take a pretty good pounding and recover nicely... but don't over do it!


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## Moppy1 (Aug 4, 2012)

I want to chime in.  First, I agree completely with Cobra that NAC is by far the best antioxidant and protection.  It is the only antioxidant that is used in medical studies that has shown some beneficial effect.  I take NAC myself, and nothing else as far as protection.  Second, I definitely notice kidney issues when on Tren (40 mg/ED).  I think it might be dehydration related cause my piss is super dark.  I think water is key and lots of it.  However, after 7+ tren cycles and lots of blood work, my liver values never changed, and my creatine and Urea are well within normal, meaning kidney function was not harmed.  However, kidney function is not an exact science based on creatine and urea levels, cause there has to be substantial damage to see these values move.  I would be careful of taking too much Ibuprofen as well when on Tren, cause that is also hard on the kidneys.  Maybe no more than 40 mg/ED of Tren and do blood work.


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## DADAWG (Aug 4, 2012)

Cobra Strike said:


> If you can't tell when something is working while running test then you don't know your body very well...I WILL never condone running anything without test...its not bro science either...everything shuts down natty test....everything. running something that's not test by itself is stupid...but that's my opinion...you guys can do what you want to your bodies
> 
> Ps...don't let dadawg see this shit



lol im a big beleiver in test and thats well known but BASSKILLER is one very experienced dude so if he is kind enough to try a few experiments like tren alone [ just a example ] and share his results and knowledge then all the better for the rest of us. 
HOWEVER that doesnt mean every inexperienced idiot on the internet should run around trying oddball shit , 99% of the people on these boards doe NOT have the knowledge or experience to know which compound is causing which side effect or gains , newbies should stick to tried and true methods and cycles while the buid their experience levels up IMO.


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## RowdyBrad (Aug 4, 2012)

Great discussion guys. Love opposing views, make for good learning.

I LOVE the Manpower liver aides. More potent than others, plus include NAC, and it is like 8 bucks or something for 50. MUCH cheaper than the alternatives.

Thanks vette, Dadawg, Cobra, DS6, Bass and the others!


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## 63Vette (Aug 4, 2012)

Moppy1 said:


> I want to chime in.  First, I agree completely with Cobra that NAC is by far the best antioxidant and protection.  It is the only antioxidant that is used in medical studies that has shown some beneficial effect.  I take NAC myself, and nothing else as far as protection.  Second, I definitely notice kidney issues when on Tren (40 mg/ED).  I think it might be dehydration related cause my piss is super dark.  I think water is key and lots of it.  However, after 7+ tren cycles and lots of blood work, my liver values never changed, and my creatine and Urea are well within normal, meaning kidney function was not harmed.  However, kidney function is not an exact science based on creatine and urea levels, cause there has to be substantial damage to see these values move.  *I would be careful of taking too much Ibuprofen as well when on Tren*, cause that is also hard on the kidneys.  Maybe no more than 40 mg/ED of Tren and do blood work.



Hi bro, I think you meant to say Tylenol and not ibuprophen yes? Both can do it but Tylenol (acetaminophen) is MUCH MUCH worse. 
But a very good post bro! 

Respect,
Vette


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## NbleSavage (Aug 4, 2012)

I had actually read that pure aspirin can have a beneficial effect while on-cycle (lower blood pressure, IIRC). My understanding is consistent with Vette: Tylenol is supposed to be a liver killer.


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## 63Vette (Aug 4, 2012)

NbleSavage, I take an 81mg aspirin every morning ... I honestly don't know if it helps but thinning the blood a little damn sure can't hurt on cycle IMHO. About half of the crap I swallow every day is in hopes that it will work for me...  so much changes so often in this game and in the medical field that who the hell knows. We do the very best we can, attempt to weigh the risks and decide if we are willing to take the chances as we best asses them. For me, running test is a no brainer... and the GH is being touted by many now as a way to prolong and improve the quality of life. Now, some of the other stuff I run ... well, maybe I am a little greedy sometimes but I eat super clean, work like a dog, don't consume alcohol or smoke... so I have to have a vice ...right?


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## NbleSavage (Aug 4, 2012)

Cheers, Vette! Well said - fwiw, my "vice" is an obscene combination of a children's halloween candy corn and salted almonds   (we all have our issues)


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 4, 2012)

I was taught test should be the base of all cycles..Ill take that shit to the grave


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## 63Vette (Aug 5, 2012)

NbleSavage said:


> Cheers, Vette! Well said - fwiw, my "vice" is an obscene combination of a children's halloween candy corn and salted almonds   (we all have our issues)




I love that shit. It tastes like a PayDay candy bar only better!


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## NbleSavage (Aug 5, 2012)

63Vette said:


> I love that shit. It tastes like a PayDay candy bar only better!



I'll be damned...you're right!!


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## username1 (Aug 5, 2012)

I had not heard of NAC, from what I hear about milk thistle there's no real studies showing it's beneficial so don't really take it anymore. What about UDCA? Anybody heard of it? Some people on the other board mentioned it and said it was supposed to be good. RUI has it, I bought it and take it twice a week on injection days but, don't know if it will be beneficial, will see what my AST/ALT look like on my next blood test. This is what it says at RUI about it:

Ursodeoxycholic acid

Ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA) is a chemical called a bile acid. It occurs naturally in bile and can be used to dissolve gallstones. The liver produces bile that is stored in the gall bladder. Bile is released by the gall bladder to aid the digestion of fats. It consists of cholesterol dissolved within bile salts. Gallstones occur in the gall bladder as a result of too much cholesterol, or too few bile salts within the bile. The imbalance causes excess cholesterol to separate out of the bile and form stones. Ursodeoxycholic acid causes gallstones to dissolve by a mechanism that is not fully understood. It is known to reduce the production of cholesterol by the liver and also to reduce the absorption of cholesterol from the gut. Both of these actions decrease the amount of cholesterol that passes into the bile. Also, since ursodeoxycholic acid is a bile acid itself, it increases the level of bile acids within the bile. The combination of these two factors reverses the imbalance and stops the cholesterol separating out of the bile. The gallstones then begin to dissolve.

Besides existing in its natural form, UDCA has been synthesized, and all pharmaceutical formulations are synthetic. Besides dissolving gallstones, UDCA exerts other actions of more interest to AAS using bodybuilders. Oral 17 alpha alkylated steroids often cause a condition called cholestasis. Cholestasis is any condition in which bile excretion from the liver is blocked, which can occur either in the liver where bile is formed, or in the bile ducts.

Extrahepatic cholestasis -- which occurs outside the liver -- can be caused by bile duct tumors, strictures, cysts, diverticula, and other damage. Other potential causes for this type include stones in the common bile duct, pancreatitis, pancreatic tumor or pseudocyst, primary sclerosing cholangitis, and compression due to a mass or tumor on a nearby organ.

Intrahepatic cholestasis -- which occurs inside the liver -- can be caused by sepsis (generalized infection), bacterial abscess, drugs, total parenteral nutrition (being fed intravenously), lymphoma, tuberculosis, sarcoidosis and amyloidosis. Other causes of this form of the disorder include primary biliary cirrhosis, primary sclerosing cholangitis, viral hepatitis (A,B,C, etc.), alcoholic liver disease, pregnancy, Sjogren's syndrome and others.

-Symptoms include the following: -Itching -Jaundiced (yellow) skin or eyes -Inability to digest certain foods -Nausea, vomiting -Right upper quadrant abdominal pain -Organ failure in cases of sepsis (but not from cholestasis itself) -Rash or fever in some cases of drug-induced cholestasis -Clay-colored or white stools -Dark urine

Often times a panel of standard liver function tests will show cholestasis before the symptoms even manifest themselves, but in general laboratory tests have limited diagnostic value. Transaminase (ALT, AST), alkaline phosphate, and bilirubin levels are typically elevated in proportion to the severity of the disease. AST and ALT can be elevated by exercise, so those are not particularly helpful in diagnosing cholestasis (1).

It is intrahepatic cholestasis caused by drugs (i.e.oral 17 alpha alkylated anabolic steroids) that is of greatest concern to bodybuilders. It has been proposed that oral steroids interfere with the pump that exports bile out of liver cells.

UDCA exerts a number of therapeutic effects which prevent and treat cholestasis. For instance, we mentioned the bile transport pump. UDCA has been shown to stimulate enzymes that increase the density of these bile transporters, allowing bile to exit the liver more readily (2,3). UDCA also protects hepatocytes (liver cells) against bile induced apoptosis (programmed cell death) (2).

Whatever the primary mechanism is for AAS induced cholestasis, UDCA has proven effective in treating the condition. Quoting from one study,

"A 28-year-old body builder was admitted because of jaundice. For 80 days, until 3 weeks before hospitalization, he had been taking moderately high doses of anabolic steroids: metandienone (methandienone), 10-50 mg daily by mouth, and stanozolol, 50 mg intramuscularly every other day. Physical examination was unremarkable except for yellow discoloration of the skin and sclerae...Liver biopsy was compatible with cholestasis induced by anabolic steroids...The patient's state improved simultaneously with the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the biochemical values gradually reached normal levels after several weeks. CONCLUSION: Anabolic steroids can cause severe cholestasis and acute renal failure. In this case there was a notable temporal coincidence between the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the marked clinical improvement. (4).

Interestingly, there seems to be a genetic disposition to the development of drug induced cholestasis (5). This may explain why only some oral AAS users develop the disease and others can endure heavy cycles of 17-alpha alkylated orals. Cholestasis as well as hepatitis caused by non 17-alpha alkylated injectable steroids has been reported, but is rare.

Cholestasis can be caused by estrogen as well, both synthetic and endogenous. It is not uncommon for cholestasis to develop during pregnancy, when estrogen levels are high. It’s possible the rare reported cases of testosterone induced cholestasis might be due to elevated estrogen levels in susceptible individuals.

It should be stressed that if one develops the symptoms of drug induced cholestasis, the first line of treatment is to immediately discontinue the drug, and begin treatment with UDCA. Although there are no studies showing UDCA exerts any prophylactic effects against AAS induced cholestasis, the proposed mechanism whereby it upregulates hepatic bile transporters suggests it may very well help prevent the disease by increasing bile flow out of the liver. Once the offending drug is withdrawn, and UDCA therapy begun, the disease typically resolves.

UDCA has also been shown to lower both total cholesterol and LDL (bad) cholesterol via at least two different mechanisms. In one study (6) researchers observed that UDCA lowered the hepatic (liver) production of cholesterol by interfering with a key enzyme in cholesterol synthesis.

In another study, UDCA was administered to animals with moderately elevated cholesterol, somewhat typical of what is seen in many people subsisting on high fat western diets (and typical of what is seen in oral AAS users). Here UDCA lowered plasma LDL by increasing the number of LDL binding sites on the liver, allowing for greater LDL uptake by the liver (7).

So we see an added health benefit to UDCA use, even in those AAS users who do not experience cholestasis. Most bodybuilders watch their fat intake, but on a high protein diet that includes red meat, UDCA might be a worthwhile supplement to consider if one is concerned about cholesterol (and who isn’t these days).

When bile enters the digestive tract, a certain portion is reabsorbed, leading to cholesterol reuptake. UDCA seems to block a portion of this cholesterol reuptake, providing for yet another mechanism whereby UDCA lowers cholesterol (8).

Dosages of commercial brands of UDCA vary depending on the type and severity of liver disease. For preventative purposes 500 mg per day might be sufficient. Once liver disease has developed, one ought to see their doctor, but a typical recommended dose is 13 to 15 mg/kg/day which may be given in 2 divided doses, i.e. in the morning and at bedtime, with food. But again, if any of the symptoms listed above develop, or liver tests come out showing cholestasis or some other liver disorder, don’t self medicate; see your doctor, and lay off the orals.

One bottle of CuttingEdge Laboratories UDCA contains 60 Tablets, 250 MG's each tablet.

Intended for Research purposes only.

(1) Pertusi R, Dickerman RD, McConathy WJ Evaluation of aminotransferase elevations in a bodybuilder using anabolic steroids: hepatitis or rhabdomyolysis? J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2001 Jul;101(7):391-4.

(2) Paumgartner G, Beuers U. Ursodeoxycholic acid in cholestatic liver disease: mechanisms of action and therapeutic use revisited. Hepatology. 2002 Sep;36(3):525-31.

(3) Micheline D, Emmanuel J, Serge E. Effect of Ursodeoxycholic Acid on the Expression of the Hepatocellular Bile Acid Transporters (Ntcp and bsep) in Rats With Estrogen-Induced Cholestasis. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr. 2002 Aug;35(2):185-91.

(4) Habscheid W, Abele U, Dahm HH. Severe cholestasis with kidney failure from anabolic steroids in a body builder. Dtsch Med Wochenschr. 1999 Sep 10;124(36):1029-32.

(5) Velayudham LS, Farrell GC. Drug-induced cholestasis. Expert Opin Drug Saf. 2003 May;2(3):287-304.

(6) Miettinen TE, Tarpila S, Gylling H. The effects of ursodeoxycholic acid on serum and biliary noncholesterol sterols in patients with gallstones. Hepatology. 1997 Mar;25(3):514-8

(7) Ceryak S, Bouscarel B, Malavolti M, Robins SJ, Caslow KL, Fromm H. Effect of ursodeoxycholic acid on hepatic LDL binding and uptake in dietary hypercholesterolemic hamsters. Atherosclerosis. 2000 Nov;153(1):59-67

(8) Eusufzai S, Ericsson S, Cederlund T, Einarsson K, Angelin B. Effect of ursodeoxycholic acid treatment on ileal absorption of bile acids in man as determined by the SeHCAT test. Gut. 1991 Sep;32(9):1044-8


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## username1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Also somebody please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm no expert but, I'm trying to Google and research NAC and I'm finding people saying that the benefits from it have been from IV and not really beneficial orally. Here's one example, can somebody please elaborate and provide their input.

"Absorption of NAC is rapid following oral administration, but the bioavailability is only 6-10% due to extensive firstpast metabolism.  In addition, oral administration is often limited by nausea and vomiting which results in delayed or ineffective administration of NAC. Intravenous administration of NAC results in 100% bioavailability. The mean terminal half-life is approximately 6 hours"

http://uuhsc.utah.edu/poison/healthpros/utox/Vol7_No1.pdf

Perhaps that's because those articles are more geared towards dealing with a liver failure rather than preventive measures?


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## Moppy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Tylenol is killer on the liver not kidneys, especially with alcohol.  Ibuprofen, which I used to take like tic tacs, is hard on the kidneys over long periods of time.  I my guess is that ibuprofen (or naproxin) with Tren would be even harder on the kidneys.  Just be aware.

Username1, there are a few other antioxidants used in human clinical trials, but NAC is cheap and it seems to work even by oral administration.  UDCA is not an antioxidant and seems to maybe work by affecting lover cholesterol homeostasis.  Might be a good tip though, as the studies you quote are legit and suggest that this compound could help with another rare liver issue that can occur with AAS use, cholestasis.


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## username1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. Are there any particular NAC supplements you would recommend? or just any NAC supplement off amazon for example? Also do you anything about NAC not being good on the kidneys? I was pretty much ready to order it yesterday but, then somebody responded in an amazon review about it not being good on the kidneys. Though they didn't quote any studies so I don't know to believe it or not.



Moppy1 said:


> Tylenol is killer on the liver not kidneys, especially with alcohol.  Ibuprofen, which I used to take like tic tacs, is hard on the kidneys over long periods of time.  I my guess is that ibuprofen (or naproxin) with Tren would be even harder on the kidneys.  Just be aware.
> 
> Username1, there are a few other antioxidants used in human clinical trials, but NAC is cheap and it seems to work even by oral administration.  UDCA is not an antioxidant and seems to maybe work by affecting lover cholesterol homeostasis.  Might be a good tip though, as the studies you quote are legit and suggest that this compound could help with another rare liver issue that can occur with AAS use, cholestasis.


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## Moppy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

NAC is pretty generic and any of the supplement companies are fine, as I think they all get it from the same basic source.  I use Puritan's Pride generic NAC, but Nature's Bounty, Sundown, etc are all probably the same.  

If you hit Pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed) and do a search for N-acetyl Cysteine and nephropathy, you will find 100s of studies of this agent protecting the kidneys, some are even in humans.  

its the real deal.


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