# Smith Machine: Like or despise it



## paleolift78

Hey i know a lot of guys that absolutely hate the smith machine. The extreme hardcore lifters who despise it and say don't even touch it, they should take it out of the gym. I actually use it once in awhile though. I hope i don't get shit for this but. I try to go as deep as possible on my squats. I do them 3x week with a 5 x 5 program. Sometimes my legs are still sore as hell from the last workout. So i will use the smith machine to make sure i don't fall over or **** myself up ya know. If im not at the very least parrallel with my legs to the floor or lower i don't count it as a rep. Sometimes when i go lower than parrallel my balance gets jacked up and i start leaning backwards and almost fall over. Is using a smith machine for squats really gonna ruin my progress???


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## Joliver

The SM forces you to travel along a plane that may not be the best range of motion for you.  I would suggest that you take a look into conjugating your squat work into other types of quasi-squat-like exercises.  

Compound move examples of squat conjugation:

Front squat
Box squat
Belt squats (underrated and underutilized)
Zercher squats (not like I do them)
Barbell hack squats

Try those when you are having problems with your squat balance issues.  You cannot work around it.  You must master the squat in order to be a successful lifter.  

And to answer your question:  I hate the ****ing SM.  It isn't worthy of holding my coat.


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## DocDePanda187123

The smith machine is garbage. I have yet to hear a reason (read excuse/cop out) that would justify it's use...ever. Yes my views on SM are extreme but reasonably so considering it is absolutely useless for strength purposes and absolutely inferior for bodybuilding purposes. By using it you are putting yourself in a position of increased risk of injury and limiting yourself. I suggest sticking to free weights.


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## Iron1

X3 for hating on the smith.
When I first started lifting years ago I tried it a couple of times but it never felt as natural as a standard back squat.

You *could* still progress using it (vs not squatting at all) but the benefits of the back squat can't be understated.


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## paleolift78

Thanks guys. I was checking out a few articles telling me the same stuff you guys were as well. I guess i will have to drop the weight a little bit and just really focus on the form freestanding squat. I won't be using the smith machine anymore. If its not gonna really help me progress i would rather go a little lighter with something that will help me more.


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## PillarofBalance

Use the smith machine almost everyday. Drop sets on incline, close grip bench, and squats. Ever since I veered off from free weights, my body is coming together much better. I do believe you need a good base with strength before switching over, though.

Watching people have bad form or do half reps with barbells and shit like that makes me cringe..And, I'm sure I was one of those people for many years...trying to put up too much weight with improper form.

Smith machines and hammer strength machines will really help bring up your lagging body parts, use them.


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## Stevethedream

ABSOLUTELY HATE IT!!! I actually even HATE looking at it in my gym! I love how guys say they can squat 3 -4 plates on the smith and actually think it's comparable to good o' fashion free weight back squats. I totally agree on what ur planning on doin by lowering the weight in free weight squats and working on ur balance. Trust me, u will definitely develop a lot more muscle mass by doin free weight squats. Start watching different training videos of proper squatting techniques and utilize them in ur own training program. Good luck bud.


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## DF

paleolift78 said:


> Hey i know a lot of guys that absolutely hate the smith machine. The extreme hardcore lifters who despise it and say don't even touch it, they should take it out of the gym. I actually use it once in awhile though. I hope i don't get shit for this but. I try to go as deep as possible on my squats. I do them 3x week with a 5 x 5 program. Sometimes my legs are still sore as hell from the last workout. So i will use the smith machine to make sure i don't fall over or **** myself up ya know. If im not at the very least parrallel with my legs to the floor or lower i don't count it as a rep. Sometimes when i go lower than parrallel my balance gets jacked up and i start leaning backwards and almost fall over. Is using a smith machine for squats really gonna ruin my progress???



If you feel like you need the smith for squats I would suggest just doing regular free weight squats with a much lighter weight to start.  Your body will get used to the motion & your weight will move up pretty quickly.  When I started back to the gym & doing squats I felt the need to use the smith.  I actually had to start doing body weight squats then a few sets on the smith.  I moved over to free weight squats pretty quickly.


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## gymrat827

You can isolate muscles better and perform reps in a more controlled manner. It isn't a straight substitute for free bar work though, get strong in the free weight department whilst supplementing with smith work. Also, the heavier you lift, the more safety becomes an issue, hence the smith machine.

Personally, I only use the smith machine for shoulder pressing, I think it's a great exercise and it feels very comfortable/natural to me.


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## stonetag

Heavy shrugs in it and smith machine military are better than standard seated military Imo. more weight and easier to control. did them for ages until I took up push presses and standing military presses cleaned from the floor.


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## Four1Thr33

I'm a planet fitness guy so a Smith is almost all I have hahaha..  But unfortunately I do use it for a few things like squats and decline bench and behind the next shoulder press..  Above statements are true and the Smith limits your control muscles from gaining anything


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## AlphaD

At my gym the main thing they do on it is push ups....seriously just get rid of it.  Nothing funnier then watching people do standing push ups.


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## DocDePanda187123

Apart from smith shoulder press I don't use it much unless for a change I do smith incline press but I put the stoppers so the bar stops just before my chest kind of like a rest/pause for every rep, Dennis wolf does them a lot in his videos, very comfortable for shoulders and can use a lot of weight while actually really feeling it in your chest.


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## grind4it

I use it for some moves. IMO, it has a place. I believe in using all the tools in the box, free weights and machines.


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## ECKSRATED

stonetag said:


> Heavy shrugs is it.



This. Can'tdo normal bb shrugs cus the bar hits my crank .


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## Pinkbear

stonetag said:


> Heavy shrugs is it.




smith machine is also for guys who want to look like they can lift a lot of weight..

why take out the smith machine!?! its the best place for women to squat in yoga pants! are you guys crazy!?!?!


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## Seeker

We don't have a seated calf machine at my gym so I sit on a bench, use a block, load up the machine, lay a sissy pad across muh legs,  and wallah! Seated smith machine calf raises.


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## ECKSRATED

Pinkbear said:


> shrugs are for guys who want to look like they can lift a lot of weight...
> smith machine is also for guys who want to look like they can lift a lot of weight..
> 
> why take out the smith machine!?! its the best place for women to squat in yoga pants! are you guys crazy!?!?!


So me doing shrugs with 2 plates on each side is me wanting to look like a bad ass? Haha. Free weights are obviously superior to machines but the Smith can be utilized effectively for some things including shrugs.


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## DocDePanda187123

ECKSRATED said:


> So me doing shrugs with 2 plates on each side is me wanting to look like a bad ass? Haha. Free weights are obviously superior to machines but the Smith can be utilized effectively for some things including shrugs.



Effective here is a relative term. Is it more effective than a free barbell which allows for anthropometrical differences, does not balance the load for you (removing the action of the stabilizer muscles to a large degree), etc?


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## ECKSRATED

Docd187123 said:


> Effective here is a relative term. Is it more effective than a free barbell which allows for anthropometrical differences, does not balance the load for you (removing the action of the stabilizer muscles to a large degree), etc?


No. I just said free weights are a better choice. I can't do bb shrugs cus i have to lean over a little so it doesn't hit my junk and that gives me the worst back pumps ever(been getting back pumps since I was 14yo)


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## DocDePanda187123

ECKSRATED said:


> No. I just said free weights are a better choice. I can't do bb shrugs cus i have to lean over a little so it doesn't hit my junk and that gives me the worst back pumps ever(been getting back pumps since I was 14yo)



I was wondering what crank meant HAHAHAHAHA. Now I know. Have you tried some taurine to help with the pumps? It's helped me a great deal!


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## ECKSRATED

Docd187123 said:


> I was wondering what crank meant HAHAHAHAHA. Now I know. Have you tried some taurine to help with the pumps? It's helped me a great deal!


Haha. 

Yea I tried taurine and it did help a little expecially while running deca but I'vebeen getting em since i was super young and i really can't find anything to get rid of em. I get em washing dishes, brushing my teeth, changing my kids diapers, driving and so on. Sucks.


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## Pinkbear

ECKSRATED said:


> So me doing shrugs with 2 plates on each side is me wanting to look like a bad ass? Haha. Free weights are obviously superior to machines but the Smith can be utilized effectively for some things including shrugs.



was saying shrugs in general... 
shrugs and wrist curls are in the same category in my mind


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## ECKSRATED

Pinkbear said:


> was saying shrugs in general...
> shrugs and wrist curls are in the same category in my mind


Wrist curls are harder than dead lifts. Don't knock em til u try it.


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## Pinkbear

iv tryd them...
i find it much harder trying to hold weight while pulling then sitting on a bench and flexing my wrist...


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## DocDePanda187123

ECKSRATED said:


> No. I just said free weights are a better choice. I can't do bb shrugs cus i have to lean over a little so it doesn't hit my junk and that gives me the worst back pumps ever(been getting back pumps since I was 14yo)



How much taurine did you try? I've used anywhere from 3-10g daily or a bit more on occasion. 

Have you looked into a possible nutritional/vitamin/mineral/electrolyte deficiency?


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## paleolift78

ECKSRATED said:


> Haha.
> 
> Yea I tried taurine and it did help a little expecially while running deca but I'vebeen getting em since i was super young and i really can't find anything to get rid of em. I get em washing dishes, brushing my teeth, changing my kids diapers, driving and so on. Sucks.



Lmao get them brushing your teeth hahaha


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## ECKSRATED

Pinkbear said:


> iv tryd them...
> i find it much harder trying to hold weight while pulling then sitting on a bench and flexing my wrist...


Dude I was joking. Haha


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## ECKSRATED

Docd187123 said:


> How much taurine did you try? I've used anywhere from 3-10g daily or a bit more on occasion.
> 
> Have you looked into a possible nutritional/vitamin/mineral/electrolyte deficiency?


 I believe i was taking 6-9g. I don't know what they are from but they blow. It's probably a caused from some muscle imbalance but never can figure out what.


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## Assassin32

Pinkbear said:


> shrugs are for guys who want to look like they can lift a lot of weight...
> smith machine is also for guys who want to look like they can lift a lot of weight..
> 
> why take out the smith machine!?! its the best place for women to squat in yoga pants! are you guys crazy!?!?!


What's wrong with looking like you can lift a lot of weight? That usually means you can.  A lot of dudes like the bulky, strong look....not everyone wants to be skinny and lean like you dude. I don't do shrugs, but I see alot of large dudes at my gym doing them.


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## Rip

I use it occasionally to get some variety in my workouts.  Also, sometimes when I get to the heavier poundages, while doing squats, I prefer to switch to the Smith, so I can go low safely.


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## DocDePanda187123

Rip said:


> I use it occasionally to get some variety in my workouts.  Also, sometimes when I get to the heavier poundages, while doing squats, I prefer to switch to the Smith, so I can go low safely.



You have no access to a rack? Or a spotter?


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## bubbagump

I started lifting at a gym that only had a smith.   I think you're cheating yourself by using one personally.


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## ECKSRATED

I think the worst thing i have ever seen on the smith was some douche **** laying on his back on the floor and pressing it up like a leg press. I'll actually try to get a picture of the guy doing this cus he does it like 5 times a week. Or people who do curls on it.


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## Pinkbear

Ecksrated pic or it didn't happen


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## ECKSRATED

Pinkbear said:


> Ecksrated pic or it didn't happen



Oh I'm definitely gonna get it for you guys.


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## Seeker

It's called a vertical leg press. Most gyms don't have vertical leg press machines but some old school gyms will have them.


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## ECKSRATED

Seeker said:


> It's called a vertical leg press. Most gyms don't have vertical leg press machines but some old school gyms will have them.


Yea I know what a real vertical leg press machine is but this just has "break my face" written all over it. I wish my gym had a real vertical press.


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## Seeker

Ya I wouldn't attempt it on a smith either. That's asking for trouble


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## TheBlob

ECKSRATED said:


> This. Can'tdo normal bb shrugs cus the bar hits my crank .



I totally agree my package doesnt hang low enough to avoid smashing my balls... I still dont use the smith machine though my work out partner would ridicule me in front of all the hot chicks... So I just smash my balls instead


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## Yaya

Incline on the smith


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## DocDePanda187123

ECKSRATED said:


> I think the worst thing i have ever seen on the smith was some douche **** laying on his back on the floor and pressing it up like a leg press. I'll actually try to get a picture of the guy doing this cus he does it like 5 times a week. Or people who do curls on it.



Laws it worse than this bro?


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## ECKSRATED

Docd187123 said:


> Laws it worse than this bro?


Pretty close. Was her doin calf raises? Haha


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## SFGiants

You can best fix your form with 75% to 85% of your max it will give you a challenge but also not over challenge you to the point your form will break down easily.

With rep ranges of 3 to 5 you'll be strong enough to control the bar and even correct your form during a lift it it falters.

Do this with free weight nothing else.

With that said your not fixing crap without someone teaching to proper form.

Humble yourself drop the weight and get the form fixed, I'm a competitive Powerlifter that is doing this exact thing right now because my free squat form went to crap with doing majority of my squats off a box for the last 2 plus years.

I have only got up to a 600ish free squat but I couldn't squat 300 before I joined a team so I know how hard it is to get corrected and how hard the road is to get it going. Other teammates had squats at 800 and above.


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## ECKSRATED

SF was that post meant for this thread?


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## Pinkbear

I agree with sfg. 
I love Watching guys who have their spotters hand them the dumbells while benching or other exercises 

Getting them 100+lb dumbells up in the air is half the exercise lol 

Form got shitty so I dropped the weight


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## SFGiants

ECKSRATED said:


> SF was that post meant for this thread?



Yeah, he talked about a form issue (his balance).

Check this smith fail lol!


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## JackC4

stonetag said:


> Heavy shrugs is it.



That's all I use it for


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## DocDePanda187123

ECKSRATED said:


> Pretty close. Was her doin calf raises? Haha



He's from Ology. He tried saying he could squat 545 or something like that...that was his video


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## NbleSavage

Saw some dude doing one-arm rows using the Smith machine last weekend. It was all I could do to keep from pointing and laughing.


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## Iron1

Docd187123 said:


> Laws it worse than this bro?



He's internet famous now! Strong aware lol.

Looks like this was before his hat gains he made last year.


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## DocDePanda187123

Iron1 said:


> He's internet famous now! Strong aware lol.
> 
> Looks like this was before his hat gains he had last year.



He's been on tren for over 11wks now and looks exactly the same as week 1 .


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## Iron1

Docd187123 said:


> He's been on tren for over 11wks now and looks exactly the same as week 1 .



Yea right, you don't even have an AVI so your facts are invalid. 

Still waiting on pics of his legs lol.


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## DocDePanda187123

Iron1 said:


> Yea right, you don't even have an AVI so your facts are invalid.
> 
> Still waiting on pics of his legs lol.



Lol I am my avi


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## cotton2012

I think it has value, come on it adds variety, safety, what about a narrow stance squat with lighter weight with super slow reps concentrating on the squeeze and mind/muscle connection, or moves for the back, arms, shoulders, pressing without a spotter. Close grip bench press, military press I got bad shoulders so dont want to go super heavy on free weight military presses. It was said  it changes the squat so doing something different will create a response, no? I wouldn't do just free weights all the time I think its good to mix up exercises, intensity techniques, rep speed, rep range, smith machine can help you utilize these. If you do the same thing all the time why would the body change?


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## DocDePanda187123

cotton2012 said:


> I think it has value, come on it adds variety, safety, what about a narrow stance squat with lighter weight with super slow reps concentrating on the squeeze and mind/muscle connection, or moves for the back, arms, shoulders, pressing without a spotter. Close grip bench press, military press I got bad shoulders so dont want to go super heavy on free weight military presses. It was said  it changes the squat so doing something different will create a response, no? I wouldn't do just free weights all the time I think its good to mix up exercises, intensity techniques, rep speed, rep range, smith machine can help you utilize these. If you do the same thing all the time why would the body change?



The body adapts to the load, intensity, volume, progression etc. Adaptation won't stop bc you only use free weights vs incorporating a smith machine. I can do everything you listed SAFELY in a power rack or outside of one. The smith machine reduces the safety not increases it. I also think you're overstating the effect of the 'mind muscle connection' and the squeeze but even if they're important, you could still use the power rack.


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## cotton2012

Now how does it reduce safety not increase it?


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## DocDePanda187123

cotton2012 said:


> Now how does it reduce safety not increase it?



You prevent stabilizer muscles from adapting to the free load like they would in barbells or dumbbells bc of the nature of the smith. Muscular imbalances are a big reason for injuries. You are also locked in a plane of motion that is almost definitely not a natural one. There's no adjustment for differences in anthropometry. For example during a squat, you'll need to change your ROM if your femurs are longer or shorter than someone else, same for the tibia, someone may need to lean further forward or sit back more depending on torso length, etc. It is physically impossible to get good form on a smith for everyone. People can have the perfect dimensions for the measurements and plane of motion for the smith machine  but that's a severe minority of ppl using it. Bad form leads to injuries and yes bad form on a free weight squat will still injure you but at least you have the ability to change your form and ROM on a free weight squat whereas it's not possible on a smith b


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## cotton2012

Point taken, I see what you're saying and it makes sense,  I will still use it for some stuff but will be rethinking certain things when I train and will take a hiatus from it for a bit on my next cycle to see if I notice any difference. Thx Doc appreciate the info and for trying to keep me safe!


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## DocDePanda187123

cotton2012 said:


> Point taken, I see what you're saying and it makes sense,  I will still use it for some stuff but will be rethinking certain things when I train and will take a hiatus from it for a bit on my next cycle to see if I notice any difference. Thx Doc appreciate the info and for trying to keep me safe!



Lol no problem brother. I am a bit extreme towards smith machines I admit but whatever you do stay safe and healthy and kick ass in the gym


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## ECKSRATED

Your stabilizer muscles will only be affected if u use the smith for everything. Using it for one exercise on chest day will not cause any imbalances. But if your doing every lift on the smith u shouldn't be in the gym. Haha


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## Tren4Life

NbleSavage said:


> Saw some dude doing one-arm rows using the Smith machine last weekend. It was all I could do to keep from pointing and laughing.




I don't have as much composure as you. I would have done it.


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## Bro Bundy

I think it has its place.. i wouldnt use it all the time but here and there why the fuk not


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## Assassin32

So, I'm no bodybuilder, but I think A lot of you guys are. There are 100's of internet vids with Pro BBers using the smith machine for squats, bench press, and shoulder press. Is this common? I see everyone ripping on the smith machine(I don't use it either)so I started messin around on you tube. There's lots of 'em, all BBers. It must work for them.


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## Assassin32

4:00 min mark this dude benches on smith machine and calls it the best execise for building the chest.


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## SFGiants

Assassin32 said:


> 4:00 min mark this dude benches on smith machine and calls it the best execise for building the chest.



He saying that flat bench is best but especially on a smith because of concentration.


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## ECKSRATED

These guys build their foundations and mass eearly in their careers with heavy compound movements. They All say it. When u get to that level and that size u can use a smith machine for hypertrophy because the amount of food they eat and gear they take. That's why they are professionals. And the last thing they want to do it get hurt before a upcoming show.


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## DieYoungStrong

ECKSRATED said:


> These guys build their foundations and mass eearly in their careers with heavy compound movements. They All say it. When u get to that level and that size u can use a smith machine for hypertrophy because the amount of food they eat and gear they take. That's why they are professionals. And the last thing they want to do it get hurt before a upcoming show.



Yup. Cutler used to squat 700. The top pros bases are built, and they are training to not get hurt and let the drugs do the work. 

No one is building a strong solid foundation doing reps of 15-20. 

That said, I don't use the smith machine.


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## ECKSRATED

DieYoungStrong said:


> Yup. Cutler used to squat 700. The top pros bases are built, and they are training to not get hurt and let the drugs do the work.
> 
> No one is building a strong solid foundation doing reps of 15-20.
> 
> That said, I don't use the smith machine.



Unless your Ronnie Coleman and wanna squat 800 and dead 800 weeks prior to a show. Haha. S


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## Assassin32

ECKSRATED said:


> These guys build their foundations and mass eearly in their careers with heavy compound movements. They All say it. When u get to that level and that size u can use a smith machine for hypertrophy because the amount of food they eat and gear they take. That's why they are professionals. And the last thing they want to do it get hurt before a upcoming show.


That makes a lot of sense. I see alot of very large BBers at my gym using the smith machines, and I always thought "what the **** are they doing?" Now, it kinda makes sense. I still don't like those damn things though.


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## SFGiants

Assassin32 said:


> That makes a lot of sense. I see alot of very large BBers at my gym using the smith machines, and I always thought "what the **** are they doing?" Now, it kinda makes sense. I still don't like those damn things though.



A lot of those guys also have serious joint pain so the machines help.


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## Maintenance Man

Docd187123 said:


> He's from Ology. He tried saying he could squat 545 or something like that...that was his video



Hahahaha!!! The famous matt video???


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## TheExperiment

I like the Smith Machine. Easy on the joints and allows me to focus on the negative rep and allows me to maximize concentration.


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## DocDePanda187123

I’d like to take this time to bump a 4yo thread and say I love smith machines. They’re even better than chairs at laying out your belt and wraps on or even leaning over to catch your breath after a heavy set from a real piece of workout equipment.


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## BRICKS

Don't discount the Smith machine, it does have some good uses other than the afore mentioned.  I hammer out behind the back upright rows on it.  Hits the traps and mid back nicely.


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## dk8594

It’s a tool in the tool box. I’ve used it to do calves in gyms that didn’t have a standing calf machine and I have used it to work around injuries.


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## Rot-Iron66

I dont mind it for certain things, BNP's light (for my bad shoulders) shrugs, upright rows) that's about it.

Sems like its a "gym bro" thing to hate it, lots of old school guys dont mind it. Each his own...


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## HollyWoodCole

I just hate the SM because doing some squats on it put me in the ER one night......never again, definitely a noob mistake.

I've used it semi-recently for some guillotine presses which was nice.


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## Maijah

Smith should only be used for heavy ass squats and Max bench days


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## Intense

I like it from time to time for incline and decline pressing.


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## jennerrator

lol......can't stand them but totally get when they are needed and help folks out!!!


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## Robdjents

I like it for behind the neck presses and calf raises...other than that I don't use it but it has its place in the gym for sure.


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## notsoswoleCPA

I use the smith at my gym for shrugs.  Since one of my friends showed me how to use it for behind the back shrugs, I got hooked on doing them that way.  My cousin, who is a strength and conditioning coach for a university, told me that he likes teaching their athletes to use the smith for bodyweight rows with their feet on a bench and setting the smith to allow for different angles to be used while rowing against the stationary bar.  

I used to use the TRX suspension trainer for bodyweight rows, but that was while I was recovering from an injury two years ago.


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## vegasdeadlifts

Just like anything it has its proper uses i think. the issues start when people try to use them for compound lifts using the same form. For example my buddy is new to the gym and he tried squatting in a smith machine (which is fine if you know you need to put your feet more forward and treat it more like a leg press) like normal squats and hurt his back real good


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## Chillinlow

First major injury was on a smith machine yep ****ing dumb


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## Viduus

I’ve been using it to do single leg squats/lunges lately. No other way to do it with heavy weights and stay balanced.


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## bvs

My old gym had a smith machine that moved up and down (obviously) but also forward and back (but not sideways) its a far better design and has many more uses


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## BrotherJ

I've never used one personally, my only beef with them is they take up a bunch of space that would be better utilized with more benches or racks.


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## Gibsonator

bvs said:


> My old gym had a smith machine that moved up and down (obviously) but also forward and back (but not sideways) its a far better design and has many more uses



the ufc gym has one like that, pretty cool idea but i have yet to try it out


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## cmd9292

I usually hate the smith machines, but I did some Smith Machine rows after bb rows and the way I could target my back was insane. I think they are good for high rep burnout sets at the end of a workout personally.


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## mugzy

I prefer a smith machine more as a get older. Inclines also produce a very good pump in a smith machine.


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## TomJ

bvs said:


> My old gym had a smith machine that moved up and down (obviously) but also forward and back (but not sideways) its a far better design and has many more uses


This is the only Smith machine I will tolerate. I actually really like using that style.


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## flenser

cmd9292 said:


> I usually hate the smith machines, but I did some Smith Machine rows after bb rows and the way I could target my back was insane. I think they are good for high rep burnout sets at the end of a workout personally.


I used to do these first, so I would be weaker on normal BB rows and be able to get a steeper angle with the lighter weight.


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## Rot-Iron66

mugzy said:


> I prefer a smith machine more as a get older. Inclines also produce a very good pump in a smith machine.


Im finding the same thing. Never was big on them, though they had their uses. Now w/ age and injury, i find myself using it more and enjoying it actually. BNP's, OHP's, Skull-Crushers, Floor-Press, close grip bench, shrugs, etc. I still mainly use barbells and dumbbells, but find myself using it more on certain things and on certain days. This last week I did a deload after months of hard/heavy progression. Was a nice change-up (using the Smith a bit more during this deload week)...


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## Send0

Smith machines make my shoulders feel weird, always have. I avoid them since I already have enough shoulder problems 😢


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## The Phoenix

good for upright row and shrugs, that's the only use i get from it.


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## Seeker

We have the newer Jones commercial machine that replaces the traditional Smith ( which i still refuse to use and don't have to because of the Jones machine) it travels not only up and down but forward and backwards allowing functions the basic Smith just can't perform. I used it and was happy with it.


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## BrotherIron

Not a fan as it doesn't move in my natural path. I would also prefer to really hit the stabilizers which don't get nearly as taxed when using a SM.


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## Diesel59

It's interesting how the attitude towards Smith machines has softened a bit over the years.


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## BRICKS

It has it's place in the tool box just like everything else.  I use mine for behind the back upright rows (not shrugs, upright rows).  Great for traps/mid back.  Try them sometime.


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## NbleSavage

I use 'em when I have to - if on the road and limited access to a real gym and I hafta get a lift at a 'big box' gym that day that doesn't have squat racks.


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## TBD

I used to use the one at my old gym for seated vertical presses and incline chest presses when I wanted to push to failure.  But those weren't the only vertical or chest presses I did.

Wasn't important to me.  It's not on my list of equipment to have in my home gym.

One of the trainers with whom I used to talk at my previous gym hated them, and *never* trained clients on them.  He listed one reason why was, in his experience, they led to a greater chance of injury by limiting angles-/range-of-motion in the joints, IIRC?


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