# Starting PCT 4 years after a "cycle"?



## Akrataire (Mar 11, 2019)

I’m 24 years old. I’ve always suspected low T. I have a baby face, very little facial hair or body hair, I had a delayed pubert, I have chronic insomnia, I have difficulty concentrating and remembering things, and I have ED/sexual dysfunction. 
At the age of 19 I went to an endocrinologist for growth hormone deficiency and got the following testosterone results back (my growth hormone was indeed below range, but I was told because my growth plates had closed there was no point in doing anything):

*22/07/2014
*

Testosterone: 16 nmol (7.6-31.4) - converts to 461 ng/dL
LH: 2.3 IU/L (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 3.3 IU/L (1.5-12.4)
Free T3: 5.0 pmol/L (3.5-7.7)

She said T was normal for my age. Because growth hormone had come out low, she requested a second blood test. For this second blood test I only got 2-3 hours sleep to keep my IGF-1 low (stupid, I know, but I was a desperate 160cm 19 year old). 
Anyway I’m saying this to mean take my next bloods with a pinch of salt maybe? I was sleep deprived and I guess that effects T.

*26/08/2014
*

Testosterone: 9.38 nmol (7.6-31.4) - converts to 270 ng/dL
LH: 1.4
FSH: 3.2
Free T3: 5.8
Free T4: 17.1
TSH: 3.25
SHBH: 24
Fast forward to March 2015, I get on a cycle of Test Enth (300mg once or twice a week I think but don’t really remember). I was intending to do the cycle for 12 weeks, but due to unforeseen circumstances had to stop at week 7 or 8 and did NO PCT at all. 
Since then, my symptoms listed in paragraph 1 have only got worse. But I have made a lot of positive lifestyle changes. I’ve done everything imaginable to increase T naturally.
I got tests done again with a different endo *26/10/2018*


Testosterone: 11.90 nmol/L (9-30) - converts to 343 ng/dL
LH: 4.0
FSH: 4.2
SHBH: 26
I told everything to my endo. He suggested possibly starting on clomid before doing TRT, but also warned me of the side effects people get from clomid.

*My question is*: will taking clomid (or any other PCT drugs) have any effect on restarting natural T production if it have been 4 years since my “cycle”? And is 6-8 weeks of Test Enth with no PCT enough to suppress my natural T levels?


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## Straight30weight (Mar 11, 2019)

I did a 6 week prohormone cycle with pct and my levels never recovered. So yeah, in my opinion your 6-8 week cycle could have shit you down permanently. We’re all different and we all react different. 

Clomid is where most docs start and it’s usuallt a waste. But they have to start somewhere. I was on clomid therapy and it took my total test over 809. Problem is it never touched my free test which stayed almost non existent. Plus clomid jacked my eyes up, I have permanent eye floaters.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 11, 2019)

Don't be too quick to marry the needle.

See if the clomid works imo.


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## Jin (Mar 11, 2019)

Hcg monotherapy > Clomid.


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## Spongy (Mar 11, 2019)

Post up your height, weight, workout routine, and diet.  You may think you've done everything naturally but one of us may be able to spot something you haven't.


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## Viduus (Mar 11, 2019)

What are your DHT and Estradiol numbers? LH and FSH numbers look decent. Any chance you aromtize a lot?


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## gymrat827 (Mar 11, 2019)

6-8wks of tes E is a tease.  

Start the clomid again see what happens.


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## Akrataire (Mar 11, 2019)

Straight30weight said:


> I did a 6 week prohormone cycle with pct and my levels never recovered. So yeah, in my opinion your 6-8 week cycle could have shit you down permanently. We’re all different and we all react different.
> 
> Clomid is where most docs start and it’s usuallt a waste. But they have to start somewhere. I was on clomid therapy and it took my total test over 809. Problem is it never touched my free test which stayed almost non existent. Plus clomid jacked my eyes up, I have permanent eye floaters.


Hmm well that's depressing.


PillarofBalance said:


> Don't be too quick to marry the needle.
> 
> See if the clomid works imo.


I'm desperate but I do think I'll do this. If clomid can kickstart my test to above 450 and rid me of my ED I would be happy enough. I think my endo said 6 months on clomid though, isn't that a lot to see if it works? I vaguely remember PCT therapies being 12 weeks when I was researching all this at 19...


Jin said:


> Hcg monotherapy > Clomid.


Why? I'll do some googling and speak to my endo about it but if you have any links that'd be cool.


Spongy said:


> Post up your height, weight, workout routine, and diet.  You may think you've done everything naturally but one of us may be able to spot something you haven't.


Height: 164cm
Weight: 62kg (up from 54kg at 18)
Workout routine: 
Monday - Chest/Shoulders
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - break (5-a-side football)
Thursday - Back
Friday - Chest/Shoulders
Saturday - rest
Sunday - Back
Add in HIIT twice a week when cutting

I do all the compound lifts, along with plenty others. I push myself *hard* for about an hour each session. I've been on bb.com and sites like that for 7 years and have had personal trainers before. I take vitamin d, zinc, magnesium daily and my diet is high in protein, healthy fats and vegetables. It's mostly whole foods and minimal processed shit. I've completely cut out sugar and only drink water except for the occasional couple beers once a week. I'm not sure what else I can do to increase T naturally but I'm always happy for suggestions.



Viduus said:


> What are your DHT and Estradiol numbers? LH and FSH numbers look decent. Any chance you aromtize a lot?


I don't think DHT and Estradiol were taken. The full list of my latest bloods are here: imgur[dot]com/a/74op7I9
I don't really understand the second question? (all I remember is reading a bit about aromatize inhibitors when I was researching HGH and test years ago, but I forgot most of what I read since then). Can you re-phrase? Should DHT and Estradiol have been taken?


gymrat827 said:


> 6-8wks of tes E is a tease.
> 
> Start the clomid again see what happens.


I hope so. I think that's what I'm going to do. Bite the bullet and hope I don't get the sides. I'll be so relieved if clomid can kickstart production and get me close to normal again.


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## snake (Mar 11, 2019)

SOP for GP's nowadays seems to be scripting Clomid before hitting TRT. I have heard of this helping a few guys but it seems hit or miss and I don't think most get to the TT numbers they want. Still any therapy is about making those symptoms less or even go away. TRT or Clomid, who cares if you get feeling better.


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## gymrat827 (Mar 11, 2019)

snake said:


> SOP for GP's nowadays seems to be scripting Clomid before hitting TRT. I have heard of this helping a few guys but it seems hit or miss and I don't think most get to the TT numbers they want. Still any therapy is about making those symptoms less or even go away. TRT or Clomid, who cares if you get feeling better.



x2x

If your issue could be correct with clomid......Its prolly the best short term route to take until you figure things out 3/5/7yrs down the road


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## Jin (Mar 12, 2019)

gymrat827 said:


> x2x
> 
> If your issue could be correct with clomid......Its prolly the best short term route to take until you figure things out 3/5/7yrs down the road



I strongly disagree and know others that have first hand experience who would say the same. 

Ai monotherapy or hcg monotherapy can raise test levels without the emotional and vision side effects of Clomid.


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## gymrat827 (Mar 12, 2019)

Jin said:


> I strongly disagree and know others that have first hand experience who would say the same.
> 
> Ai monotherapy or hcg monotherapy can raise test levels without the emotional and vision side effects of Clomid.



I’ll give u that

But he needs real help, when I’ve taken a low low AI dose long term I never got much numbers wise with blood tests.  

I never taken hcg mono for a boost

He is in line for clomid or just cruising


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## Jin (Mar 12, 2019)

gymrat827 said:


> I’ll give u that
> 
> But he needs real help, when I’ve taken a low low AI dose long term I never got much numbers wise with blood tests.
> 
> ...




Ok. Here are things that I’d consider real help to combat low t. 

1mg adex daily
or
2000 iu hcg 3x/wk
or
50mg Clomid daily
or
trt. 

These are are some options that could work to treat his low t. I don’t know what you mean by hcg for a boost, but I was on hcg monotherapy at the given dose for 9 months and felt much better than on Clomid.


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## Akrataire (Apr 3, 2019)

Just an update guys, I've started on 50mg clomid every other day (prescribed by my doctor) for 60 days. I had blood tests done this morning so I can compare before and after.

I have a question: if the clomid works in restarting my natural T production, will I need to stay on it for life? Or is 30x50mg pills over 2 months enough to restart my natural t levels without needing further supplementation (considering I might have shut down natural T levels 4 years ago?) 
Hopefully this works a bit like PCT, in that after a while I don't need to keep supplementing. But I want to prepare for the worst-case and realistic scenarios,


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## Straight30weight (Apr 3, 2019)

It’s a restart. Meaning it’ll kick start your production then you will be back to functioning on your own.


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