# 18g needle too big for vial stopper



## Lt. Aldo Raine (Jun 13, 2014)

Ive been using an 18 g needle to draw my test cyp and last time i got it out I noticed a bead of oil sitting on top of the stopper. After looking closer I noticed that there was a tiny hole that wasn't closing back up due to the larger needle. If i turn the vial upside down, oil can drip out. I then held it up to the light and noticed a possible particle in the oil. What mm  and uM filter would you guys recommend to clean out the last bit of test in this vial or is it not worth the risk? It is about 1/3 of the way full.


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## JAXNY (Jun 13, 2014)

I draw with an 18 Gage all of the time. Your source is using shitty tops. It should close back up. Sometimes I get a little drop coming out of the top but nothing should be gutting inside and especially if you are keeping your gear in a sanitary environment.  I have no idea about filtering it.


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## Iron1 (Jun 13, 2014)

.22uM to re-filter out bacteria.


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## hulksmash (Jun 13, 2014)

I use 18s or 20s to draw. Your tops are shit.

I LOVE 20g for pinning.

I honestly don't know why all of you don't use a bigger needle like 20s..using 23g or 25g makes pinning so slow and you have Push hard as **** (side note-I don't ever warm my gear).


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## Hockeyplaya18 (Jun 13, 2014)

Yea Ive never had an issue with using an 18g to pull out  hehe


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## snake (Jun 13, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> I use 18s or 20s to draw. Your tops are shit.
> 
> I LOVE 20g for pinning.



Please tell me you are kidding! I used a 21g ONCE! It's to inject test and not intended to be a needle biopsy! 20's are masochistic lawn darts! Plus you leave .5 ml in the damn garden hoses!


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## TriniJuice (Jun 13, 2014)

18g to draw and 25 to pin
prbly gunna switch to a 22g, pushing through a 25 is serious work


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## italian1 (Jun 13, 2014)

I use 22 guage to draw and pin. No pain at all.


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## Rumpy (Jun 13, 2014)

I draw with a 21 and pin with 25's.  18's can tear up stoppers and you can get little bits of rubber in your gear.


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## Get Some (Jun 13, 2014)

Draw with 18, pin glutes, ventro, and thighs with 23, pin everything else with 25.... that is the absolute gold standard!! You shouldn't try to push more than 1 ml through a 25g needle. More than that and you can create a vacuum that will pull the oil out of your muscle after you remove the pin!


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## anewguy (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm drawing with 18 gauge.... Almost to the end of a 20ml jug myself and stopper is in great shape.


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## Iron1 (Jun 13, 2014)

Get Some said:


> Draw with 18, pin glutes, ventro, and thighs with 23, pin everything else with 25.... that is the absolute gold standard!! You shouldn't try to push more than 1 ml through a 25g needle. More than that and you can create a vacuum that will pull the oil out of your muscle after you remove the pin!



Really?
This is the first time I've heard about this.

I've been running 2.1mL per pin through 25ga pins.

I would think the larger the hole left by the pin the more prone you are to oil leaking back out.


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## Get Some (Jun 13, 2014)

The pressure you put on the stopper trying to inject through a 25 g is far greater than a 23. Most guys I know inject through a 25 as fast as they can, which is incorrect. I go at least 60 seconds per mL to make sure the pressure does not build. The "hole" left in your skin by a 23 is not that much bigger and you are injecting into a muscle anyways, which is fibers. Those fibers can be held open by surrounding pressure, but not the hole itself after the needle is withdrawn.

For those of you who use 25g for the glutes, try a 23 and you'll see what I mean! And take your time on those injections, leave the pin in the muscle for 10 seconds after you finish injecting



Iron1 said:


> Really?
> This is the first time I've heard about this.
> 
> I've been running 2.1mL per pin through 25ga pins.
> ...


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## Iron1 (Jun 13, 2014)

Get Some said:


> The pressure you put on the stopper trying to inject through a 25 g is far greater than a 23. Most guys I know inject through a 25 as fast as they can, which is incorrect. I go at least 60 seconds per mL to make sure the pressure does not build. The "hole" left in your skin by a 23 is not that much bigger and you are injecting into a muscle anyways, which is fibers. Those fibers can be held open by surrounding pressure, but not the hole itself after the needle is withdrawn.
> 
> For those of you who use 25g for the glutes, try a 23 and you'll see what I mean! And take your time on those injections, leave the pin in the muscle for 10 seconds after you finish injecting



Ok, that makes more sense to me now.
I've never been in the "pin quickly" group, I always take my time. 
Slow and steady, even leaving the pin in for several seconds afterwards.
Which may explain why I personally have not had problems pinning over 2mL with 25ga pins.

You had me confused with the vacuum part of your first post, it's a pressure thing.

If you're saying the hole is irrelevant for leaking out, why the recommendation to not pin any more than 1mL with a 25ga pin?
1mL is 1mL when it's sitting in the muscle, right?


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## Lt. Aldo Raine (Jun 13, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> I draw with an 18 Gage all of the time. Your source is using shitty tops. It should close back up. Sometimes I get a little drop coming out of the top but nothing should be gutting inside and especially if you are keeping your gear in a sanitary environment.  I have no idea about filtering it.



I do store it in a safe sanitary spot. Im wondering if the particle is a minuscule piece of the rubber stopper or dust. The stopper must have been shit because I had only stabbed it 5 times


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## Lt. Aldo Raine (Jun 13, 2014)

Iron1 said:


> .22uM to re-filter out bacteria.



That should be more than adequate then. Would You trust it?


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## Iron1 (Jun 13, 2014)

Lt. Aldo Raine said:


> That should be more than adequate then. Would You trust it?



Sure.
.22uM is a typical filter size for filtering out bacteria when homebrewing.
I'm running gear that's been filtered with .22uM filters without problems or concern.


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## JAXNY (Jun 13, 2014)

Lt. Aldo Raine said:


> I do store it in a safe sanitary spot. Im wondering if the particle is a minuscule piece of the rubber stopper or dust. The stopper must have been shit because I had only stabbed it 5 times



You need to do the best you can by putting the needle in the hole in the exact same spot and not to the side of it as that will tear off pieces of rubber and make your hole larger. Any bits of rubber in the vial won't hurt you as it shouldn't get into the needle. And if a piece is stuck in the needle I always push out a few drops and let it run down the side of the needle to lube it. The rubber would come out when you did that.


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## JAXNY (Jun 13, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> I use 18s or 20s to draw. Your tops are shit.
> 
> I LOVE 20g for pinning.
> 
> I honestly don't know why all of you don't use a bigger needle like 20s..using 23g or 25g makes pinning so slow and you have Push hard as **** (side note-I don't ever warm my gear).



20 Gage for pinning, why?  The bigger the needle the more scar tissue you form. 22Gage is the largest I'd go.


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 13, 2014)

JAXNY said:


> 20 Gage for pinning, why?  The bigger the needle the more scar tissue you form. 22Gage is the largest I'd go.



He pins once per week so scar tissue won't be a big issue. I still wouldnt do it simply because ouch.


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## Kazmir (Jun 14, 2014)

I tend to only use 1 drawing needle per bottle.  I stick an 18gauge pin in the bottle and leave it there.  When its time for a shot I take an empty barrel and screw it on the pin thats already in the bottle, draw the gear, unscrew it and put on a pin for injecting.  I keep the bottle with the pin in it in a sealed baggy in my medicine cabinet sitting upright.  

20 gauge ouch, biggest I have pinned with was a 21g I believe (the one that comes with the mexican sustanon redijects) and only did it once - ouch


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## hulksmash (Jun 14, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> He pins once per week so scar tissue won't be a big issue. I still wouldnt do it simply because ouch.



This.

I'm not one to feel pain much.

That's why it confuses me-I don't feel any difference from a 20g vs 25g..

25g=plunger goes down like butter, no struggle-like it's an empty syringe!


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## JAXNY (Jun 14, 2014)

Kazmir said:


> I tend to only use 1 drawing needle per bottle.  I stick an 18gauge pin in the bottle and leave it there.  When its time for a shot I take an empty barrel and screw it on the pin thats already in the bottle, draw the gear, unscrew it and put on a pin for injecting.  I keep the bottle with the pin in it in a sealed baggy in my medicine cabinet sitting upright.
> 
> 20 gauge ouch, biggest I have pinned with was a 21g I believe (the one that comes with the mexican sustanon redijects) and only did it once - ouch



Even though you keep it sealed in a bag it sounds risky to me. Bacteria grows on things.


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## JAXNY (Jun 14, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> This.
> 
> I'm not one to feel pain much.
> 
> ...



You mean the plunger with a 20 Gage goes down like butter.....yeah but then you have to take the time to stitch your ass up from a 20 Gage.


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 14, 2014)

I've always found 23 g to work best. Bot too big not too small. And i pin all my oil fast and never had a problem. Probably 20 seconds for a ml. 

People think too much. Just pin. U ever see how fast doctors or nurses inject stuff?


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## grizzldsealpoacher (Jun 14, 2014)

Yeah buddy I dont even use hypo's to draw I use 18g blunt fill with no issues time to find a new source .. 

I pin with 22g 1 1/2 delts arse quads . Believe it or not I find that the I get less pip going deeper with the big boy pins "size does matter" I heard that once


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## bigezy (Jun 14, 2014)

i use 18 to draw and 23 or 25 to pin


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## TheLupinator (Jun 14, 2014)

25g to pin - I pin M/W/F or daily.. If I used a 20g my ass would be tore up - I'll reiterate this again, HULK is a sick fcck lol


As far as only 1ml in a 25g - I hit at least 2ml consistently VG w/ a 25g. Always let the needle simmer a good 10sec after oil is out - never have a problem with it pushing back through


Oh and if some rubber broke off into the vial..... Fucck it, sure as hell aint letting gear go to waste


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## jyoung8j (Jun 16, 2014)

I use 22g goes fast enough y use bigger??


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