# NPP and joints



## Sledge (Aug 5, 2015)

Does npp have the same joint protection properties as deca? I don't see why it wouldn't. But what exactly does this mean? Does it only help the actual joint? What about tendons? I am constantly getting little pulls and tears where my pecs meet my shoulders that takes my bench back a few weeks every time.. Would npp prevent this? I'm also going to post in the injury section to try to get to the bottom of these injuries


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## bvs (Aug 5, 2015)

Npp will have the same joint effect as deca. I believe its due to holding extra fluid in the joint so it wont help with muscle/tendon/ligament problems


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## HDH (Aug 5, 2015)

I was unsure until I gave NPP a shot. I've heard some say yeas and some say no. I have found that it does work. You don't want to go crazy on your joints though because it's not a fix, more like a lube.

The only experience I have Deca/NPP helping is the joints.

H


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 5, 2015)

HDH said:


> I was unsure until I gave NPP a shot. I've heard some say yeas and some say no. I have found that it does work. You don't want to go crazy on your joints though because it's not a fix, more like a lube.
> 
> The only experience I have Deca/NPP helping is the joints.
> 
> H



^^^^ this. Nandrolone doesn't protect the joints. It just masks whatever is going on with them.


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## McDuffy (Aug 5, 2015)

Sledge said:


> Does npp have the same joint protection properties as deca? I don't see why it wouldn't. But what exactly does this mean? Does it only help the actual joint? What about tendons? I am constantly getting little pulls and tears where my pecs meet my shoulders that takes my bench back a few weeks every time.. Would npp prevent this? I'm also going to post in the injury section to try to get to the bottom of these injuries



Goddammit sledge, ur green with 100 posts and u have more reputation points Than me. I suck...


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## finacat (Aug 6, 2015)

nadralone imprvoves collegen sysnthesys dont be stupid
it will prevent muscle tears as well

not as much as eq tho
****ing idiots


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## HDH (Aug 6, 2015)

Ha, ha, do you mean "collagen synthesis" while you were calling us fvcking idiots?

They haven't fixed mine yet. 

Improving isn't a fix.

-------------------------

Take it easy if you have problems with your joints or problems anywhere for that matter. It's just smart training.

H


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## ToolSteel (Aug 6, 2015)

I wish I had trusted npp local. That and eq have been calling my name.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 6, 2015)

Sledge said:


> Does npp have the same joint protection properties as deca? I don't see why it wouldn't. But what exactly does this mean? Does it only help the actual joint? What about tendons? I am constantly getting little pulls and tears where my pecs meet my shoulders that takes my bench back a few weeks every time.. Would npp prevent this? I'm also going to post in the injury section to try to get to the bottom of these injuries


Don't look to chems to fix mask or prevent injuries. Sounds like you need to fix your bench or shoulder mobility first. You are probably not setting your humerus back in the joint capsule before unracking the bar. Can you post a bench video? 


finacat said:


> nadralone imprvoves collegen sysnthesys dont be stupid
> it will prevent muscle tears as well
> 
> not as much as eq tho
> ****ing idiots



Hi... two things. Post evidence to your claim and watch your mouth.


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## SFGiants (Aug 6, 2015)

finacat said:


> nadralone imprvoves collegen sysnthesys dont be stupid
> it will prevent muscle tears as well
> 
> not as much as eq tho
> ****ing idiots



I run it a lot and have ran it heavy I have gotten tendinitis running it heavy and torn my pec in competition running it heavy.


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## SFGiants (Aug 6, 2015)

I had wrist surgery years ago because of bone on bone shit and NPP really helps a lot.

300mg a week I don't feel shit, without it I run into times I realize I have a ass of a wrist.


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## GSgator (Aug 6, 2015)

All Deca does is lube the joints which will mask the pain its not a fix I learned that the hard way.


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## ToolSteel (Aug 6, 2015)

But since it "lubes the joints" would it be unreasonable to say they it would help prevent further injury?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 6, 2015)

finacat said:


> nadralone imprvoves collegen sysnthesys dont be stupid
> it will prevent muscle tears as well
> 
> not as much as eq tho
> ****ing idiots



Then please explain to me how the research done on deca with collagen synthesis and muscle tears shows it to be counterproductive to healing?


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## HDH (Aug 6, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> But since it "lubes the joints" would it be unreasonable to say they it would help prevent further injury?



Perhaps for slight pain but not actual prolonged wear and tear issues. For slight pain, it would be best to figure out ways to train and not get the pain. In the long run, that would help with healthy joints. A quick fix isn't usually optimal for what we do. Everything takes time including a good foundation for joint health. 

Deca/Npp isn't something I would take for simple joint pain. Mine are problematic after years of hitting it in the gym, heavy weights and stupid shit when I was younger. Lubing something doesn't necessarily mean no ware for something getting old and wore, it can help comfort but it still gets wore, joints included. The worse something is, the faster it can degrade.

 It's easier for BBs to work around as lighter weights can be implimented but I think PLs can have a more difficult time once they become a problem over the years. POB usually give some good suggestions for these problems since he has no intention on lowering his weight. Implementing these things now can save some grief in the future. 

 H


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 6, 2015)

Anabolic-androgenic steroids (AASs) may be used by body builders, elite athletes, and recreational sports competitors to improve strength, muscle hypertrophy, increase training load capacity, and improve recovery for optimizing athletic performance. High doses and repetitive use of AASs can have various adverse effects on multiple organs and systems including, but not limited to, the cardiovascular, hepatic, dermatologic, musculoskeletal, reproductive-endocrine, and even psychiatric [46]. For example, there have been several reported cases of upper and lower extremity tendon rupture [17, 19, 43, 61, 63, 72], which may be caused by increased forces being transmitted from the hypertrophied musculature to tendon. Anabolic steroids may alter tendon crimp morphology, which can affect risk of tendon rupture [40]. On the other hand, there is a legitimate role for controlled use of AASs as an adjuvant medical therapy in the treatment of cachexia for patients with chronic disease [6]. In orthopaedics, AASs may be beneficial for fracture healing, soft tissue healing, and postoperative rehabilitation [21]. In a rabbit model AASs reduce immobilization-induced muscle atrophy [65].

Experimental animal models have been used to investigate the effects of anabolic steroids in the presence of exercise on biomechanical properties of tendon [36, 48]. These studies demonstrate anabolic steroid use during exercise produces a stiffer tendon which absorbs less energy and fails with less elongation. A recent in vivo study reported AAS treatment can impair Achilles***8217; tendon remodeling by down-regulating matrix metallopeptidase activity, and thus increase the potential for injury [47]. In an in vitro rotator cuff tendon model, human supraspinatus tenocytes treated with nandrolone decanoate and subjected to mechanical load had more organized actin cytoskeleton and increased collagen matrix remodeling and mechanical properties [68]. More research is required to determine the effect of AASs on tendon healing, but this was the first known study to document the acute effect of anabolic steroids on human rotator cuff tendon cells. The knowledge gained from these studies may provide insight into the biologic effects of anabolic steroids on tendon.


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## ToolSteel (Aug 6, 2015)

So... Most aas are bad for tendons, but nandrolone MAY be beneficial? 

Edit: or did I read that backwards? Big words big words...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 6, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> So... Most aas are bad for tendons, but nandrolone MAY be beneficial?
> 
> Edit: or did I read that backwards? Big words big words...



I'd dismiss the thought of helping tendons with steroids.


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## Sledge (Aug 6, 2015)

F





PillarofBalance said:


> Don't look to chems to fix mask or prevent injuries. Sounds like you need to fix your bench or shoulder mobility first. You are probably not setting your humerus back in the joint capsule before unracking the bar. Can you post a bench video? .



I'll see if I can get a bench video up in a day or so. I'll post it in the injury forum. Thanks for the help!


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## Sledge (Aug 9, 2015)

Unable to post video. I took vid with my phone, and I think it needs to be converted or something.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 9, 2015)

Put it on youtube as unlisted, not public or private. Then paste link into thread. Voila.


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## SFGiants (Aug 10, 2015)

HDH said:


> Perhaps for slight pain but not actual prolonged wear and tear issues. For slight pain, it would be best to figure out ways to train and not get the pain. In the long run, that would help with healthy joints. A quick fix isn't usually optimal for what we do. Everything takes time including a good foundation for joint health.
> 
> Deca/Npp isn't something I would take for simple joint pain. Mine are problematic after years of hitting it in the gym, heavy weights and stupid shit when I was younger. Lubing something doesn't necessarily mean no ware for something getting old and wore, it can help comfort but it still gets wore, joints included. The worse something is, the faster it can degrade.
> 
> ...



I agree, mine is from hard sports use also and started up in my 20's.

I have had the wrist reconstructed so the bones stop chipping each other away.

For Powerlifting only 2 things keep it from having issues and very slight issues compared to pre surgery and that is NPP and 36'' wrist wraps any shorter on the wraps are worthless and the wraps have to be of quality.

Pre surgery I couldn't slice butter and I mean this literally.

Surgery was done in my mid 20's now I'm 46, started Powerlifting seriously in 2008.


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