# Bench Holding Me Back



## TeddyBear (May 9, 2021)

Hey,

So today I’m excited to have begun wrapping up Candito’s 6-week powerlifting program.

It went from higher volume to higher intensity, without really sacrificing the difficulty.

Today I went for my squat. I increased my squat in the past 5 weeks from 405 PR to a 425PR with probably 9.5RPE. I think there’s more in the tank but I didn’t want to get greedy.

Deadlift was 470/475 (I forgot) and I’m less optimistic that I’ve increased it. The program always puts squats before dead’s so my dead’s suffered.

Bench was a lot more volume than I’m used to. I think my chest has grown in size, so YAY VOLUME! (Honestly, my chest needs growth, so I’ll take it!)

But I really really doubt my bench will improve based on the last few weeks. My bench just doesn’t seem to budge past 250.

So at 206lbs my lifts are:
B: 250
S: 425
D: 460

My bench, since I don’t have an injury, I think really should be quite a bit higher. I’m aiming for 1200 in August for my second competition. My bench isn’t just not helping, it’s going to start holding my total back.

What program(s) would you recommend for a bench-press-hard-gainer?


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## Metalhead1 (May 9, 2021)

I would like to see your bench technique first before throwing out programs, or ideas. 

Technique improvement alone could add pounds to your bench. Also, it could show us a weaker muscle group that you could strengthen along the way.


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## Gadawg (May 9, 2021)

Youre the dude in your avatar and you only bench 250?  Something aint adding up.


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## Robdjents (May 9, 2021)

Technique is probably the issue here.  Took my bench to a much better place once I started focusing more on it.


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## tinymk (May 9, 2021)

Post up a video of you benching, likely it is some fundamental mistake holding you back... of the big 3, bench is the most technical imo especially when you throw in 3 commands( start- press- rack) to legal finish the movement on the platform. Unlike Squat that is simply SQUAT-RACK


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## TeddyBear (May 9, 2021)

Gadawg said:


> Youre the dude in your avatar and you only bench 250?  Something aint adding up.



I post regularly in UGBB pool ready thread. That’s me. Good angle, lighting, and shoulder pump. I have shoulders for days. But yeah, my bench is measly.


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## TeddyBear (May 9, 2021)

I’ll record more later this week.
these are old:
https://youtube.com/shorts/n15sek9SxpM?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/ISEfhlqhGWc?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/gUPxefqEWGk?feature=share
And because I’m still excited about yesterday’s squat: https://youtu.be/q_mgZX3xi_Y


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## TeddyBear (May 10, 2021)

More current bench form check videos (from today):
https://youtu.be/5r-s3Rd4Zd8


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## CJ (May 10, 2021)

dted23 said:


> More current bench form check videos (from today):
> https://youtu.be/5r-s3Rd4Zd8



Do your arms always shake that badly, even on light warm-ups?

I ask, because when I go back to a movement I haven't done in some time, I'll get the shakes for a week or two, it seems like my brain/muscles are trying to reorganize the firing pattern of the muscles/movement.

Do you have a stability issue in your shoulders possibly? Is your body not locked in and braced properly, so your brain senses stability?

I'm no powerlifter or movement coach, so take that with a grain of salt.


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## TeddyBear (May 10, 2021)

They do shake that much on heavy lifts, yeah.
On lighter warm-ups, no. But I hammered arms with friends on a douchey-arm-day on Friday.

I think you see some of it is mental, I’m slow in descent because I’m trying to control it. After first rep I’m better.

One lifter at the gym recommended I do more pull-rows to improve descent speed, so I’ve done that.

Its just 1 year and two cycles later my other lifts and size have improved, but bench hasn’t. I can dumbbell (flat and incline) press more than before (still less than bench).

On shoulders, seated, I’ve hit 190lbs.


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## BrotherIron (May 10, 2021)

You're elbows are flared out. You're not retracting your shoulder blades (draw your shoulders down, to put them in the best position).  I also don't think you're tight at all... so, no leg drive. You look loose on your set up.

Could be more but I saw that at first glance.


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## TeddyBear (May 10, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> You're elbows are flared out. You're not retracting your shoulder blades (draw your shoulders down, to put them in the best position).  I also don't think you're tight at all... so, no leg drive. You look loose on your set up.
> 
> Could be more but I saw that at first glance.



Yeah, I do scapula pull ups and push ups as a warm up, so I think I’m trying to pull them back. Leg drive is hard to understand but feet are planted.

I have asked other guys to observe and comment. But maybe I need to ask a PL specifically there


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## BrotherIron (May 10, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Yeah, I do scapula pull ups and push ups as a warm up, so I think I’m trying to pull them back. Leg drive is hard to understand but feet are planted.
> 
> I have asked other guys to observe and comment. But maybe I need to ask a PL specifically there



Your legs are moving around a bit and you lift your foot so they are not tight.  I should be able to hit them without them moving.  You need to plant them, push back hard, and drive your traps through the bench.  You're leg drive should be so forceful, you're quads begin to cramp.  They shouldn't move, lift, tap around, etc.


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## tinymk (May 10, 2021)

Brother, your way too loose. Nothing should be able to move but those arms going down to the chest and back to lockout.  
Fundamental it looks ok but as far as competing in a PL meet or improving your bench, you just have to be tighter through the whole body.  
Here is my advise with competing in PL for the last 30 years......
before the bar comes out:
pull your shoulder blades back and together, get your hips as close to your shoulders as you can( this helps create and stabilize an arch, a safe arch).. get your feet planted, like dig them in the sand 

Breathing is done through a straw, not a big gulp of air.. because breathing through a straw till your lower abs engage, once engaged your core will be at its tightest. gulping air will lead to a weakly braced core, smooth slow deliberate through the straw( this is done on all 3 lifts.  Squat bench dead). Meaning lower abs, upper abs, hips, quads and spinal erectors are tight. This creates a tighter arch, one that can stand a weight resting on the chest without crumbling.  
I do all this before the bar is brought of the rack
once the bar is out and locked out, I push my knees down towards the ground, this is a key to leg drive...Your legs and knees are not driving down and it results in instability and a loose core..your legs should be beat up with a good bench session.  Lastly pull your elbows slightly in when bringing the bar to chest. I imagine the phrase “pinch—-punch” meaning pulling my elbows slightly in towards my lats on the decent and then punching the bar to lockout once given the press command...

might be slightly all over the place in my description but I am on no sleep and it is 4am lol

if you need me to post a video showing these techniques being used let me know brother.


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## TeddyBear (May 10, 2021)

tinymk said:


> Brother, your way too loose. Nothing should be able to move but those arms going down to the chest and back to lockout.
> Fundamental it looks ok but as far as competing in a PL meet or improving your bench, you just have to be tighter through the whole body.
> Here is my advise with competing in PL for the last 30 years......
> before the bar comes out:
> ...



Id super appreciate a video when you’re able.
Im convinced I can make good gains with better form. My chest is my weakest and smallest.


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## tinymk (May 10, 2021)

My opinions on what will help your lifting in general. 
learn to breath through a straw on squat, bench and dead
engage your complete core and quads on bench, dig your feet in like your in sand and try and drive your knees down to engage the quads and hips
dont flare your elbows on the decent or press on bench
pull your shoulder blades together and tight before the weight is unracked


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## diver (May 10, 2021)

tinymk said:


> Brother, your way too loose. Nothing should be able to move but those arms going down to the chest and back to lockout.
> Fundamental it looks ok but as far as competing in a PL meet or improving your bench, you just have to be tighter through the whole body.
> Here is my advise with competing in PL for the last 30 years......
> before the bar comes out:
> ...



tinymk WORD


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## Adrenolin (May 10, 2021)

The way you bench stresses the pecs and shoulders more but is dogshit for building strength, and is risky on the shoulders.

The first thing I noticed is you just kind of lay back on the bench ... you're too relaxed.  Gotta get your feet planted in the floor under your ass. Next you need to retract your scapula pulling your shoulders back and putting them in a more advantageous position for the lift. At the beginning of every rep your lifting the bar a little higher using your shoulders, don't do that keep the shoulders pulled back tight at all times through the lift. Your arms are flared way too much, while it hits the chest good, it can wreck your rotators, bring your elbows 45 degrees to your lats and squeeze your lats through the lift.. that will assist in stabilizing the weight and should help you shake less. When you bring the bar to your chest, just below nipple level, drive your heels hard into the floor pushing your upper back and traps into the bench, thats leg drive and helps get heavy weight back off your chest. Squeeze the bar hard and imagine ripping it apart, it helps keep your body tight 

Focus on that to start then we can talk about path of travel for the bar. It's not straight up and down if you're lifting for power.


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## TeddyBear (May 11, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> The way you bench stresses the pecs and shoulders more but is dogshit for building strength, and is risky on the shoulders.
> 
> The first thing I noticed is you just kind of lay back on the bench ... you're too relaxed.  Gotta get your feet planted in the floor under your ass. Next you need to retract your scapula pulling your shoulders back and putting them in a more advantageous position for the lift. At the beginning of every rep your lifting the bar a little higher using your shoulders, don't do that keep the shoulders pulled back tight at all times through the lift. Your arms are flared way too much, while it hits the chest good, it can wreck your rotators, bring your elbows 45 degrees to your lats and squeeze your lats through the lift.. that will assist in stabilizing the weight and should help you shake less. When you bring the bar to your chest, just below nipple level, drive your heels hard into the floor pushing your upper back and traps into the bench, thats leg drive and helps get heavy weight back off your chest. Squeeze the bar hard and imagine ripping it apart, it helps keep your body tight
> 
> Focus on that to start then we can talk about path of travel for the bar. It's not straight up and down if you're lifting for power.




Tried this today, stayed around 155lbs to practice. Lower back took a beating. Really tried but not sure I have it yet.

I asked a random guy who looks strong and puts up more than me.

He gave me feedback and advice.
Then complimented my physique and asked “personal question, but are you natty?”

I told him “no”.

Then he explained that he’s a seller.

Because I didn’t ask him, this forthright details sketched me out. Especially since he was surprised when I declined and told him I’m ending my current cycle in two weeks, he clearly wanted to sell.

I understand he’d want a new customer; but he was surprised I wasn’t going to blast and cruise. That seemed too much for me, I don’t trust him.


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## Jin (May 11, 2021)

Trust your gut. Walk away.


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## creekrat (May 11, 2021)

One thing I’ve said to my kids and wife has been not trying to push the weight up but thinking of the weight as immobile and trying to push your shoulders through the bench to the floor. Jedi mind trick. Usually helps with the scapular retraction since the focus is now on the chest and shoulders as opposed to the bar


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## TeddyBear (May 12, 2021)

I had two guys help me out today:
1. “You have a wider shoulder frame, you should put your hands further out on the bar to reduce range of motion and stabilize since you can.” I didn’t try this, it was after I had done my sets.

2. “You should increase your arch, hold the top of the bench and push into it, then back your feet back.” My arch was higher; but I could feel my lower back tighten. Feet still weren’t planted. Very little flexibility for that.

ill continue to ask for additional input. It’s a powerlifting and body building gym, someone will help it click.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 4, 2021)

Burned my fingers while using the stove, so no tomorrow, but man, I’m gonna try bench again soon.

I failed 1x245lbs yesterday. One of the young guys I work out with passed me up at 265 today, he’s 30lbs lighter too.

I got some tips to try on leg drive, but it’s frustrating to not progress at all. Even trying to do pin press and tempo and dumbbell and incline and decline and flies and rows.


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## Metalhead1 (Jun 4, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I had two guys help me out today:
> 1. “You have a wider shoulder frame, you should put your hands further out on the bar to reduce range of motion and stabilize since you can.” I didn’t try this, it was after I had done my sets.
> 
> 2. “You should increase your arch, hold the top of the bench and push into it, then back your feet back.” My arch was higher; but I could feel my lower back tighten. Feet still weren’t planted. Very little flexibility for that.
> ...



These are general cues to start off with. If you get tight enough, you're going to be very uncomfortable. Especially in your lower back. The wider grip makes sense for the ROM portion, but if you're weak off the chest, it won't be as beneficial. 

How many times are you benching a week? Where did you miss 245? Off the chest? Few inches off? Lockout?


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## TeddyBear (Jun 4, 2021)

Metalhead1 said:


> These are general cues to start off with. If you get tight enough, you're going to be very uncomfortable. Especially in your lower back. The wider grip makes sense for the ROM portion, but if you're weak off the chest, it won't be as beneficial.
> 
> How many times are you benching a week? Where did you miss 245? Off the chest? Few inches off? Lockout?



I failed at the bottom.

Im benching 2-3x a week. I follow bench with either dumbbells in incline or bench on incline, usually do flies and rows after. Cool down with shoulder raises and tricep extensions.

Warm up;
bar 45lbs x10
135lbs x 10
185lbs x8
205 x 5
235x 3
245 failed

ive done days of 5x5 at 205.
It doesn’t matter, I’ve seen zero improvement.
I cycle through the big three lifts: chest, back, legs. The other two continue to respond.

Right now; post cut, all my lifts are lower, but still, at 200 I should be able to do more than 250. I don’t have an injury.


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## Metalhead1 (Jun 4, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I failed at the bottom.
> 
> Im benching 2-3x a week. I follow bench with either dumbbells in incline or bench on incline, usually do flies and rows after. Cool down with shoulder raises and tricep extensions.
> 
> ...




Sounds like it's just in technique. Possibly losing tightness, or just weak off the chest in general. To build off the chest, I would suggest spoto Presses. Or shirt Presses, where you let the bar lightly touch your shirt. Holding your tight position through the pause. 

I would also suggest changing up your ramp up weights. You're losing a little volume, and more reps by doing bigger jumps. More reps and sets allow you to work on technique as well before the big sets.

Ex:
Bar until warm
95 x 10
135 x 8
165 x 8
195 x 5
205 x 3
225 x 1
245-250


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## TeddyBear (Jun 5, 2021)

Metal, I tried out your plan.

It wasn’t going to be magic, obviously, but today I got a very solid 245. Tried to get a 255 for morale. Failed. Failed during descent, which I don’t normally; I’m usually so slow and controles I hit rock bottom and get stuck fatigued.

Its frustrating. I’ll continue to rep out.
I couldn’t get it; so I went to 185 and hit sets, then 135 for pin press.


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## SFGiants (Jun 5, 2021)

Keep at it and be patient.

You got 2 guys giving you the best advice in the World here listen to them, keep it to who you listen to to a minimum as people will contradict each other.

These guys aren't making these things up, it's what we all do or did being taught by the best lifters and coaches on the planet whom all learn off the same few people.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 5, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Keep at it and be patient.
> 
> You got 2 guys giving you the best advice in the World here listen to them, keep it to who you listen to to a minimum as people will contradict each other.
> 
> These guys aren't making these things up, it's what we all do or did being taught by the best lifters and coaches on the planet whom all learn off the same few people.



Yeah, I figure my other lifts peaked on cycle at a heavier weight, so dropping a little there makes sense. I don’t expect to make much progress on those while maintaining weight in the next two months. More about fighting to keep them from dropping.

No good reason for bench to be stagnant for so long. So I’m convinced I should be able to make decent gains on LBs there to bump my total. Hopefully adjusting form makes the difference.


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## SFGiants (Jun 5, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Yeah, I figure my other lifts peaked on cycle at a heavier weight, so dropping a little there makes sense. I don’t expect to make much progress on those while maintaining weight in the next two months. More about fighting to keep them from dropping.
> 
> No good reason for bench to be stagnant for so long. So I’m convinced I should be able to make decent gains on LBs there to bump my total. Hopefully adjusting form makes the difference.



Your lifts should never drop they should always rise!

It's hard to get all 3 lifts to move at the same time, squat and deadlift go hand and hand a lot of times.


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## Migmaster (Jun 5, 2021)

Do you fail getting off your chest or the last push. I know everyone is different but your chest and arms are bigger than mine. I can hit 350 one time. If I didn't have to come all the way down I think my triceps could push 400. You have probably already said this and I missed, but where are you getting stuck at. Wish you the best, you will get there


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## Metalhead1 (Jun 5, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Your lifts should never drop they should always rise!
> 
> It's hard to get all 3 lifts to move at the same time, squat and deadlift go hand and hand a lot of times.



This 100%. It's absolutely rare to have all 3 lifts go up simultaneously. There's usually one that doesn't want to cooperate in a training cycle. 

Dted, what does your bench training look like week to week? If you tried 245 and failed last time or even a week ago, I would suggest not hitting your head against that brick wall constantly. 

Pace yourself, and chip away at the numbers. Attacking them week in and out is a terrible recipe.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 5, 2021)

Metalhead1 said:


> This 100%. It's absolutely rare to have all 3 lifts go up simultaneously. There's usually one that doesn't want to cooperate in a training cycle.
> 
> Dted, what does your bench training look like week to week? If you tried 245 and failed last time or even a week ago, I would suggest not hitting your head against that brick wall constantly.
> 
> Pace yourself, and chip away at the numbers. Attacking them week in and out is a terrible recipe.



I really didn’t expect squat and deadlift to improve.
I did Jonnie Candito’s powerlifting program. It was high rep mild intensity and gradually shifted to greater intensity.

I did it FOR my bench.
But squats were seeing gains, deadlift was not.

That said, once I rested from squats for a week, my deadlift PR was magically higher. I mean, I get why, my back and legs got stronger.

Bench. Nope.

I really could live with lousy bench numbers; it’s vanity. It really may hold back my total though, which is frustrating.The average untrained person “allegedly” can get here fairly easily, but I’ve always stunk at bench.

Im torn: if I don’t do bench I would focus on other pushing exercises that could pay off. But I suspect it’s not strength, just something isn’t clicking right.

Ive gotten way too much conflicting advice at this point; people respond differently it seems, but most agree I MUST be doing something wrong. I don’t think I’m doing the legs right because I can bench exactly the same weight with legs extended out like a bed as with them as planted and tense as possible. 1.5x or 1.0x shoulder width, same power, same wiggling bar. I have overhead pressed 190 before, so it’s not weak triceps or shoulders. Biceps aren’t great, they fatigue easy and I don’t hit curls as much as really anyone else (maybe that’s it). I should hope I’m pulling well, I do a lot of rows.

Yes, the past three weeks I’ve hit chest twice a week, and each time tried to PR. That was being stubborn. I’m not sure how else to see whether my form is improving, I could light weight and high reps just using arms only, I wouldn’t know if my form is better.

Today; i failed on descent, 2/3rds down. Normally I fail 1 inch off my chest on the way up. I think I’m gonna practice pin press for reps and sets.

I did two months of programmed pause bench and tempo bench in the winter and a pause bench will help for competition but not for raw numbers. Either way, no improvement.

Ive thrown stuff at the wall since last Spring. Gained 20 some odd pounds, ran two cycles, ate way more than normal, the theory that being heavier helps didn’t have much traction on any of my lifts.


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## Mind2muscle (Jun 5, 2021)

I feel your pain here dted.  Bench has always been my weakest lift as well.  My highest 1RM was 265 but that was a few years ago.  Although I have a connective tissue d/o that interferes with training.  Now I’m lucky if I can get 245 for 1  like yourself.  I’m 37 (190lbs) and trying not to let my ego get the best of me.  Also don’t want to injure myself as I have had my fair share of injuries.  At his point I’m just going for aesthetics and if I get a little stronger each year that’s fine with me.   Good luck and I hope you reach your goals.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 5, 2021)

Mind2muscle said:


> I feel your pain here dted.  Bench has always been my weakest lift as well.  My highest 1RM was 265 but that was a few years ago.  Although I have a connective tissue d/o that interferes with training.  Now I’m lucky if I can get 245 for 1  like yourself.  I’m 37 (190lbs) and trying not to let my ego get the best of me.  Also don’t want to injure myself as I have had my fair share of injuries.  At his point I’m just going for aesthetics and if I get a little stronger each year that’s fine with me.   Good luck and I hope you reach your goals.



Thanks man, good perspective. If I grew a bunch, I’d be down for that. As it is, I’m trying to chill off cycle until post powerlifting competition. Then it’s eat and blast time for size. Since I’m not likely to get larger at the same weight as is, I’ve been clinging to numbers for progress.


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## ATLRigger (Jun 5, 2021)

dted23 said:


> I’ll record more later this week.
> these are old:
> https://youtube.com/shorts/n15sek9SxpM?feature=share
> https://youtube.com/shorts/ISEfhlqhGWc?feature=share
> ...


Legs don’t look engaged at all from the first video


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## ATLRigger (Jun 5, 2021)

Ok so the second video tells all. There’s no arch in your back.  
the solution is very apparent:
You have to use your feet to drive your back down onto the bench. 
Here’s a cue that will help:
Learn to cheat first using a method that will get you disqualified in a meet; get your butt way off the bench. Plant the balls of your feet hard. That’s where your power will come from.   Some federations will even disqualify you for lifting your heels off the ground.  That’s okay for now.   Get your heels up and create a dangerous arch with your back.   Use a belt if you’re unsure of posture.  
You should be putting so much force down with your feet that it pushes your entire body backwards along the bench and you kind of have to readjust and find the right placement of your body as you practice driving your body in that direction.   
Once you get this technique down, you can worry about keeping your butt on the bench for the lift to count in anybody’s book.  
Even off the record i don’t really count bench press numbers where the butt isn’t touching the bench, but the technique is absolutely critical to getting in the right position.  
There are some other techniques you can use with grip and elbow position too, but your bench will shoot up in a few weeks once you start making the bench press a total body compound lift.


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## Metalhead1 (Jun 5, 2021)

Watched over your videos again, and a few things I see. 

Watch how you unrack. You unrack stabilize, now watch your shoulders as you extend your arms more before descending. You lose every bit of back tightness when that happens because your shoulders come up. Keep those ****ers squeezed tight from set up to rerack. When You unrack, barely clear the j hook, load Lats, big breath descend. 

Another thing, you're not loading your lats. Does this mean your Lats are weak? Not entirely, but I would put more emphasis on training them in your program to get that connection with them.

Arching is helpful in the ROM, and staying tight. Some people just can't.

If this is your Wider grip, then it seems obvious you're just weaker at that grip width. Meaning more or less that your chest is the weaker link. 

To rectify that, I would suggest on your 2nd bench day, do illegal wide grip bench. 2 finger widths past the rings, if your trigger finger is already on the rings. If not, just go wider by two finger widths than your widest grip. 

For the main movement I would do 
10x10 @ 60% (Do that for 2-3 weeks)

8x8 @ 65% (2-3 weeks)

6x6 @ 70% (2-3 weeks)

This Wider grip with this volume SHOULD bring up your chest strength.  That along with being smart on your heavier bench days, and getting that connection with your Lats. Technique will come, and we'll make sure you get there.


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## ATLRigger (Jun 5, 2021)

Metal has a solid plan.  I was also thinking along similar lines to what he said about wide grip too. 
Interesting volume work he has for you.  I may try something like that too.


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## SFGiants (Jun 5, 2021)

Floor Press is your best friend, you will learn a whole new tightness, this helps teach upper body tightness, strengthen off the chest  and lockout.

I'll leave it to Tiny aka puny lol and metal take you there!


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## transcend2007 (Jun 5, 2021)

Great post Dted .. and thanks to Tiny - Metal & SFG (and others) for all your awesome input here ... this is the reason we are all here .. this is practical knowledge that you just cannot get on YouTube or other places due to the all the conflicting info ... I've learned more from the thread about bench than I have in the past 10 years.

The only thing I would add is consider taking a full week off at some point in the near future .. it is amazing how much stronger you will come back after fully resting everything.

The other thing is do not underestimate your mind in all of this ... we all have mental limitations ... part of this process is knowing that you can bench 300 pounds or more (even if it 1 - 3 - 12 months from now) .. at 210 lbs at 52 years old I benched 295 1 time which was my all time PR ... I had been training low reps with son-in-law who could bench 345 ... seeing him (someone I knew well) do it .. opened my mind to doing more over those 6 months ... I will add weight over the next year ....


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## ATLRigger (Jun 5, 2021)

Good video, SFG.  I don’t have that fancy bar but i might try floor press anyways.


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## SFGiants (Jun 5, 2021)

ATLRigger said:


> Good video, SFG.  I don’t have that fancy bar but i might try floor press anyways.



Axel Bar is great also!


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## TeddyBear (Jun 5, 2021)

*Guys, this is great and I’m really eager to try. Today I’m hitting back, I gonna rest push for another day or two before trying some of these out.*



ATLRigger said:


> Ok so the second video tells all. There’s no arch in your back.
> the solution is very apparent:
> You have to use your feet to drive your back down onto the bench.
> Here’s a cue that will help:
> ...


 *I’ll try to give this a try, so many thoughts on feet and leg it’s confusing. Trying to reset my brain.*



Metalhead1 said:


> Watched over your videos again, and a few things I see.
> 
> Watch how you unrack. You unrack stabilize, now watch your shoulders as you extend your arms more before descending. You lose every bit of back tightness when that happens because your shoulders come up. Keep those ****ers squeezed tight from set up to rerack. When You unrack, barely clear the j hook, load Lats, big breath descend.
> 
> ...


*I will definitely try this out. I have had better more stable days but had bad recording angles, so haven’t uploaded the more recent attempts. Otherwise I would have shown them. My arch is a little better and IDK which grip is really better, though I have slightly wider shoulders so wider (ring finger on ring) puts wrist above elbow at bottom.*



SFGiants said:


> Floor Press is your best friend, you will learn a whole new tightness, this helps teach upper body tightness, strengthen off the chest  and lockout.
> 
> I'll leave it to Tiny aka puny lol and metal take you there!



*Ill look weird, but it’s a legit gym where everyone kinda would just assume I have good reason to be doing it. I’m excited to try this out ASAP, maybe tomorrow or Monday.

I will have to take days off: I’m camping and traveling.

while those will trigger my fears of shriveling up, I know rest matters. But I get bored without workouts.

I think I may incorporate some cardio and core work in the interim.
*


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## SFGiants (Jun 5, 2021)

dted23 said:


> *
> I will have to take days off: I’m camping and traveling.
> 
> while those will trigger my fears of shriveling up, I know rest matters. But I get bored without workouts.
> ...



Take some resistance bands or do body weight stuff.

Time off doesn't have to me stop, just do blood flow stuff and little resistance.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 7, 2021)

Update:
https://youtu.be/E83UWpGrNck

Its very messy and not great at all.

I tried floor pressing, I really struggled to keep any tightness at all, instead I practiced in racking level (rather than up and off).

The grip on the bar style that way was difficult because my wrists had more balancing to do. My wrists are kinda weak.

Then I tried a few varieties on bench. It’s only 110 lbs but you still see the same amount of shake as when I’m pushing 240. It’s not the shake that bothers me, but it makes me less certain I’m doing it correctly.

I tried to unrack with tightness, but simultaneously driving with my feet is very difficult. I tried flat and on balls of feet in the video; but in both situations I don’t feel like my legs added anything. I can squat enough to know my legs aren’t weak, but I’m doing it wrong.

I know you guys are trying to help, but I’m frustrated by a lack of progress, even failing to feel better form if not stronger lifts.

I’m not confident enough at all to get back on the platform to only hit the same numbers as last time. I wasn’t injured, didn’t take time off, going up again would just confirm I wasted time. After the 4th of July I’ll decide whether to bail: a powerlifting meet doesn’t need to be a reason for frustration.


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## BrotherIron (Jun 7, 2021)

You don't have to be so far forward when floor pressing.  It's going to be hard to be and stay tight in the lats with you so far forward.

Is it also a wider grip?  I like to perform my floor presses with a shoulder width grip.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 7, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> You don't have to be so far forward when floor pressing.  It's going to be hard to be and stay tight in the lats with you so far forward.
> 
> Is it also a wider grip?  I like to perform my floor presses with a shoulder width grip.



It was a pretty wide grip. Maybe I should have tried the floor press with a normal bar to avoid doing too much novelty.

Ill have to rewatch the video, im not sure which direction means “forward”. I think you’re saying I shouldn’t have had my face under the bar.


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## BrotherIron (Jun 7, 2021)

dted23 said:


> It was a pretty wide grip. Maybe I should have tried the floor press with a normal bar to avoid doing too much novelty.
> 
> Ill have to rewatch the video, im not sure which direction means “forward”. I think you’re saying I shouldn’t have had my face under the bar.



What I'm saying it your body doesn't have to be so far out in front of the cage your using to perform the presses.  Look how far out you are and how far the bar must travel before you're in position to begin the lift.  Scoot your ass back.

Also, you don't need a wide grip with floor presses.


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## Metalhead1 (Jun 7, 2021)

Didn't look bad. I agree with BI. Scoot back a bit. Just enough to clear the hooks. 

Seeing that video, I think you're losing a lot of power in your wrists. It looks like they're cocked back quite a bit. The transfer of power will be best when everything is as close to inline as possible. 

And again, you don't need. Asuper wide grip with this. What I recommended was for your bench setup. 

A new bar, variation, and width grip are 3 new variables you're working with. Take it one change at a time to tell you what is working and what isn't.


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## Trendkill (Jun 8, 2021)

I don’t think this has been mentioned but how is your upper back strength?  A lot of guys can’t keep the shoulder blades retracted and maintain the correct chest position in the bottom because of a weak upper back.  Add in a heavy rowing exercise  twice a week and some higher rep work for the rear delts.  Upper back is a big weakness of mine but as it gets stronger all of my pressing movements increase. If you have strong tris and are missing at the bottom try a closer grip too.


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## ATLRigger (Jun 9, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Update:
> https://youtu.be/E83UWpGrNck
> 
> Its very messy and not great at all.
> ...



You have the right idea with how you’re preparing for the lift.  
You’ve got the right idea planting your feet and arching your back. You should be able to use that technique on the bench for some immediate gains.


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## SFGiants (Jun 9, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> I don’t think this has been mentioned but how is your upper back strength?  A lot of guys can’t keep the shoulder blades retracted and maintain the correct chest position in the bottom because of a weak upper back.  Add in a heavy rowing exercise  twice a week and some higher rep work for the rear delts.  Upper back is a big weakness of mine but as it gets stronger all of my pressing movements increase. If you have strong tris and are missing at the bottom try a closer grip too.



Band Pull Aparts and Face Pulls is more for the upper arc strength


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## ATLRigger (Jun 9, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Band Pull Aparts and Face Pulls is more for the upper arc strength



I thought face pulls make ur face look pretty. Or at least ur biceps.


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## Trendkill (Jun 10, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Band Pull Aparts and Face Pulls is more for the upper arc strength



when I say upper back I’m including  lats as well. Heavy rows are the best upper back builder IMO as they target everything. Facepulls certainly have their place but I don’t t consider them a primary builder of total upper back strength. They are great for isolating the traps and rear delts though and that can have a significant contribution to better pressing form and technique.


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## MrInsensitive (Jun 10, 2021)

Wow, Dted thank you for posting this. I needed this more than you. I didn’t know half of these things. 
I appreciate everyone who commented. I’ve copied most your all’s responses in my notes.  Thank you.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> when I say upper back I’m including  lats as well. Heavy rows are the best upper back builder IMO as they target everything. Facepulls certainly have their place but I don’t t consider them a primary builder of total upper back strength. They are great for isolating the traps and rear delts though and that can have a significant contribution to better pressing form and technique.



I get you, I'm specifically talking about the arc of the shoulder blades and traps though as an isolation.

For the mid back yes lats, upper it's the others.

We need to arc. lower, mid and upper pinching the upper tight, they all get targeted differently.

The lats are not pinching the shoulders blades back.

The lats in the bench as I see it is not only mid back arc (tightness) but the springs we load up bringing down the bar and popping back up. ( they are movers). We should have the lats lower, bend, tuck and push the bar as the main mover.

The lats are loading and exploding with your upper back and traps are stabilizers.

The 1st thing he should be setting up and getting tight is his shoulder blades and traps.

Wherever he is weak ( sticks or slows down ) is what will tell him which muscle group is falling behind.

I don't know you so I don't know if you know bench and I'm not disrespecting just helping this guy learn as he knows nothing at all.

The bench is a full body movement with not just an arced back but 3 different locations doing different things,

The biggest reason people can't bench heavy is how loose they are with no lats or legs, they think it's all chest, tris and shoulder only.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

Let me put it another way, if your relying on the lats to tighten the upper back then it's not tight.

While sitting in your chair roll your shoulders back then pinch your shoulder blades tougher popping your chest out, then just try pulling your shoulder blades together with just your lats.

The upper back must get tight 1st


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> when I say upper back I’m including  lats as well. Heavy rows are the best upper back builder IMO as they target everything. Facepulls certainly have their place but I don’t t consider them a primary builder of total upper back strength. They are great for isolating the traps and rear delts though and that can have a significant contribution to better pressing form and technique.



Alternating, barbell, dumbbell and seated rows was our staple, shit I hated them heavy dumbbell rows.

You are correct about the lats, big player in all 3 lifts.

This guy is fresh and couldn't bench yet until this thread.

My above post is more for him to read and know there is way more to it then lying on a bench, unracking weight and pressing it.


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## TeddyBear (Jun 10, 2021)

Hmm.
Sitting I tried to squeeze my shoulder blades together, it’s tough. I’ve been trying to pinch my shoulders back (near the top) and the lower my shoulder blades downward towards my butt. Like I’m trying to get my shoulder blades to touch my tailbone. That cue hasn’t really done much for me.

I think your suggesting that I squeeze the shoulder blades together at top, Middle, and bottom?

Its frustrating because you can only read so much and hope it clicks. I only just now realized I was scooting even the worse direction this most recent time.

Today I definitely preemptively slammed rows before reading this: https://youtube.com/shorts/byN669CIkfE?feature=share


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

dted23 said:


> Hmm.
> Sitting I tried to squeeze my shoulder blades together, it’s tough. I’ve been trying to pinch my shoulders back (near the top) and the lower my shoulder blades downward towards my butt. Like I’m trying to get my shoulder blades to touch my tailbone. That cue hasn’t really done much for me.
> 
> I think your suggesting that I squeeze the shoulder blades together at top, Middle, and bottom?
> ...


Umm NOOO, LOL.

You'll get it.


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## Trendkill (Jun 10, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Alternating, barbell, dumbbell and seated rows was our staple, shit I hated them heavy dumbbell rows.
> 
> You are correct about the lats, big player in all 3 lifts.
> 
> ...



right there with you on hating one arm dbell rows. Brutal exercise.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

I spotted for this guy on the platform, big weight big man.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> right there with you on hating one arm dbell rows. Brutal exercise.



I cheated and used straps, that made them suck more lol.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

For the most part I suck at online communication so I hope that video did it for you, upper back anchored, lats in the air lol, lower back is basically protecting. 3 different purposes.

Squeezing / pinching shoulder blades back, the lats do the same but 1st the upper as you get wedged under the bar.

Reason why I emphasize upper 1st is the lats will really come into play as you get even tighter, bending the bar and bringing it down. So as it may feel as it may be setting up together the lats will get engaged even more so after. They are setting up together but point is your not done with the lats as everything else doesn't change beside your arms and leg drive.


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