# Concerning the IFBB thread



## hulksmash (Aug 31, 2013)

This is old news for me already, but BFG from getbig.com did all that posting

He's legit and not a ****ing idiot like gh15...gh15's ideas will get you bad health lol

REMEMBER, ALL HIS THREADS ARE FOR PRO BB'ING LIFE. NOT GYM RATS


Theres plenty more, but do your own searching

I've made more progress than ever from utilizing the K.I.S.S. method of Pros/BFG/Swiper

However., as we all know it's for a very few..using no less than gram for cruising, then having blasts, and never coming off

IF HEALTH IS NO. 1 CONCERN, DO *NOT* ATTEMPT THE PROTOCOLS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE NOT COMPETING


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## AndroSport (Aug 31, 2013)

getbig.com used to just be a supplement store. it is where is used to purchase my supps and shit back in the late 90's and early 2000's. most the shit is not legal anymore lol


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## hulksmash (Aug 31, 2013)

AndroSport said:


> getbig.com used to just be a supplement store. it is where is used to purchase my supps and shit back in the late 90's and early 2000's. most the shit is not legal anymore lol



Yea and all in all it's a very SHITTY forum

However, there are gems like BFG on there

BFG came as a response to gh15...which gh15 always spouted bullshit

Although-gh15 did post close to what Arabic bbers do-low/no test, high anabolics

Yet gh15 preached cruising with tren...it's done-especially by Arabic bbers-but it ages peeped very quick and it's harsh on the system...all in all bad advice


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## NbleSavage (Aug 31, 2013)

hulksmash said:


> This is old news for me already, but BFG from getbig.com did all that posting
> 
> He's legit and not a ****ing idiot like gh15...gh15's ideas will get you bad health lol
> 
> ...



I missed a meeting. All of your links point back to SI. Was that your intention?


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## #TheMatrix (Aug 31, 2013)

links are jacked up


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## AndroSport (Aug 31, 2013)

NbleSavage said:


> I missed a meeting. All of your links point back to SI. Was that your intention?



I am sure the mods didnt want links to another site up


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## AndroSport (Aug 31, 2013)

that being said... anyone ever do the high dose dbol only on training days pre workout?


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## goesto11 (Aug 31, 2013)

> Yet gh15 preached cruising with tren...it's done-especially by Arabic bbers-but it ages peeped very quick and it's harsh on the system...all in all bad advice



Not to derail Hulk's thread...
At what dose did these guys cruise tren? "cruising" is such an ambiguous term. I want to read some more tren studies involving human cells. The only hard evidence I've read was produced in a lab study in vitro on human lymphocyte chromosomes. Toxic doses were something like 40mM - 60 mM while lower doses 20 mM~ showed that abnormal cells were "insignificantly low". This study was also done using the FDA approved drug stanozolol--which I think everyone here is familiar with--and produced very similar results. 
I know this is old but: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0039128X1000022X
I searched all over and never found anything else published about this.


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

NbleSavage said:


> I missed a meeting. All of your links point back to SI. Was that your intention?



No; didn't know off-site forum links weren't allowed

With that said, take those "thread titles bfg getbig" into google search and you'll find them

For example, google "Using Nandrolone for Best Results bfg getbig"

You'll find that thread and his other threads

AGAIN do not do hhis protocols if you're not trying to become a pro

Even if you're a gym rat wanting pro size, those protocols aren't needed..to have a Pro STAGE READY physique, then they're needed

Definitely not pro-health lol


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

goesto11 said:


> Not to derail Hulk's thread...
> At what dose did these guys cruise tren? "cruising" is such an ambiguous term. I want to read some more tren studies involving human cells. The only hard evidence I've read was produced in a lab study in vitro on human lymphocyte chromosomes. Toxic doses were something like 40mM - 60 mM while lower doses 20 mM~ showed that abnormal cells were "insignificantly low". This study was also done using the FDA approved drug stanozolol--which I think everyone here is familiar with--and produced very similar results.
> I know this is old but: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0039128X1000022X
> I searched all over and never found anything else published about this.



First and foremost, not one pro gives a crap about any health dangers-the only thing that matters is what gets them to win

The majority (there are exceptions, just goin on averages) that cruise on tren are arabic BBers

Test is placed is bad light due to side effects that are overblown-acne, bloat, etc

EQ+Deca are the main two used cruising-usually at 1.5-2g for the main one (deca) and 1g for the other (eq)

However, the ones with the best genetics (parabolan+Ronnie Coleman were synonymous apparently) can handle cruising and blasting with tren at 1-1.5g

Remember, pro genetics= huge doses with minimal/no sides, NOT pro genetics=low doses/few compounds=pro size


So, 1.5-2g Deca, 1g EQ, and 1g tren are pretty common for cruising...look at the Arabic BBers faces though (and now Coleman's whole body lol)- they look way older than they are and breathe like the morbidly obese

Vet steroids take a huge toll on the body..the ones who cruise/abuse vet roids burn out the quickest 

All the BBers I know who competed in the late 70s/80s all think tren is some kinda devil juice lol...I think they're partly right


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

AndroSport said:


> that being said... anyone ever do the high dose dbol only on training days pre workout?



I did a 9 week Superdrol run not too long ago (still got Mdrol in freezer) at 60-70mg with 2 days off..no negative effects (I'd get a nosebleed every now and then) but definitely got more striations to appear and added lb to the scale

Also on week 8, got bloodwork and  AST/ALT was only 42/50 (normal ranges 0-35/7-56), so AST was only barely high

Cholesterol was in all normal ranges


No surprise though, just like injectable gear-hormones build up, so not intaking 2 days out of 7 will not negatively effect blood levels (if it does it negligible), and gives the liver a break


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

Since people keep asking for links, imma just copy and paste lol

*Most Effective GH and Insulin Protocol*




Most Effective GH and Insulin Protocol
« on: November 01, 2011, 12:13:25 PM »
The following is, hands down, THE MOST effective way to run insulin and growth hormone for muscle gain in the offseason. When dieting, it is recommended to change the way the gh is run to promote greater fat utilization throughout the day (remember, gh will shift your body's primary energy utilization from carbohydrates to fat). Later, I will post up an effective 4 month contest prep gh protocol that many pros have used and continue to follow. 

I am not giving out doses here for the insulin because a lot of that comes down to individual sensitivity and experience. 

----------------

What do you need?
hgh and humalog (you can use humulin-r, though). IGF-1 DES can be helpful but not necessary, especially since no american research chemical/peptide suppliers carry real IGF-1, anyway. 

The Protocol
- 5-10 mins before training: intramuscular injection of humalog, drink shake containing 10g dextrose/1iu insulin and ~50g whey protein. 
- intra workout: consume shake containing 10g BCAA's, 10g creatine monohydrate, 7-10g dextrose/1iu insulin and ~25g whey protein 
- immediately post workout: inject 10+ iu's hgh (no less than 10, 20-30 is the "sweet spot"). Method of injection is individually preferential though most would agree IV is the optimal. 
- 30 mins post IV hgh injection: consume shake containing 7-10g dextrose/1iu of insulin and ~50g whey protein
- 60 mins post IV hgh injection: eat a meal containing 150-200g complex and simple carbohydrates and 100-150g protein 

Notes
- if you are using humulin-r, inject it subcutaneously 90 minutes pre workout. I would also then recommend changing your preworkout eating to a full meal 2 hours prior, a shake as described in step 1 about 45-60 mins prior and then some glucose tablets upon entering the gym as well as the intra workout shake. 
- if you are using real IGF-1 DES (note: it is very expensive, and from china), inject it bilaterally in muscles to be trained that day pre workout. Prepare to adjust carbohydrate intake accordingly as IGF-1 will lower insulin sensitivity.


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

*again do not attempt these protocols if you are not competing

health is not the concern*


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

*A Successful Offseason - Drug Use, Diet and Training*

The goal of "offseason" is simple: gain as much muscle as possible. As such, there is no need to over complicate things with lots of exotic drugs, odd training programs and difficult to follow diets. 

Drugs:
-----
- CRUISE @ 1,000mg testosterone, 1000mg eq, 600mg deca per week, 10iu hGH everyday 
- BLAST 6-8 weeks @ 2,000mg testosterone (add 1,000mg prop or TNE per week), 1200mg deca (add 600mg NPP), 1,000mg eq, 100mg dbol, 100mg anadrol pre workout, 20iu hgh IV post workout, 15iu humalog before breakfast and before training

Diet:
-----
- 6-8 meals per day of large amounts of "clean" foods. Mostly red meat is ideal for weight gain. 2 medium sweet potatoes or 1-2 cup oats with every meal. If weight plateaus start adding 1-2 tbsp olive oil with every meal. If weight still plateaus replace 1 meal with 2 fast food double bacon cheeseburgers. 

Training:
-----
Heavy lifting to failure 3-4x per week only. Mostly compound movements. "5x5" is an ideal routine for offseason. Especially during the blasts, go as heavy as possible (within good form and for 5-6 reps).*


*this is where I disagree; the biggest pros (Sergio Oliva, Paul Dillet, Jason Huh, Roelly Winklaar, etc) all stick to 12-15 rep ranges and partial reps

HOWEVER, they all built a base strength before adopting that..for example, if you can't bench 225 for at least 12 reps (or in the 3/4/5 club), you are NOT strong enough for partials/12-15 rep ranges...build strength first


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

*Using Nandralone for Best Results*

Reading through a few threads today, I couldnt help but notice an overwhelming dislike toward deca. This was surprising to me as deca is one of the most widely used and highest dosed drugs in the bodybuilding scene. I thought I would describe a bit on how deca is used today in the top national and pro ranks for great results. 

#1) never come off deca. Just like test, deca is part of the "cruise." The most basic cruise cycle among most top guys is 1-2 grams of test and 800mg's of deca. Deca maintains a level of thick muscularity and density that few other drugs build over time. When one stays on deca for long durations without break, that is part of what builds that extremely thick and dense muscle mass that the top guys have. 

#2) never go lower than 800mg's of deca. Going lower than 800mg's of deca is pretty much worthless. You will get all the negative side effects (if you are so predisposed) but none of the thick, dense mass that deca builds in doses of 800+. 

#3) use NPP in 6-8 week periods to blast up to 2 grams of nandralone. Incorporate 6-8 week blasts in your offseason of up to 2 grams of nandralone by using NPP. 6-8 weeks on 2 grams of deca and you will build some serious muscle mass that will not come off when you drop back down to 800mg's. 

Sample nandralone cycle:

Weeks 1-4 CRUISE
1,500mg testosterone cyp 
800mg deca
5iu GH monday through friday
5iu humalog in morning and preworkout

Weeks 5-12 BLAST
1,500mg test cyp
800mg deca
150mg test prop ED 
150mg npp ED
100mg TNE ED
100mg dbol ED
15iu GH post workout only
15iu humalog in morning and preworkout


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

*Testosterone, Trenbolone and other Anabolic Drugs: Correct Use Explained*

Many bodybuilders believe the key to growth is through exotic drug combinations. *This is simply not true. With the exception of the last 8 or so weeks of contest prep, there is very little reason to use drugs like trenbolone, masteron, winstrol, anavar, halotestin, etc.* If your goal is to gain as much size as possible it boils down to 3 simple components:

1) Lots of food
2) Heavy training
3) Lots of testosterone, nandralone, dianabol, anadrol, growth hormone and insulin 

There is simply no need for elaborate combinations of 6 different anabolic steroids in varying doses to become huge. For example, a simple an effective protocol that will transform anyone into a "mass monster" would be:

2,000mg testosterone
1,000mg nandralone 
100mg dbol
10iu hGH
15iu insulin first thing AM, and post workout

There is never a reason to go below 1,000mg testosterone except for health reasons. 600mg-800mg's of nandralone is a good baseline year round, use varying amounts of the phenyl propionate ester to blast an additional 400-600mg's of nandralone off and on as the decanoate ester is simply too slow for well timed "blasts" when staying on year long in a "blast and cruise" protocol. 

Dianabol and Anadrol are extremely beneficial. These two drugs provide a level of muscle fullness, weight gain and strength (remember, progressive overload is the key to growth so the heavier you lift, the bigger you will get - up to a point, anyway) that proves invaluable. Dbol/Drol is best taken in one large dose pre workout, on non-workout days you can take a much smaller dose (or none at all) and stagger the difference to allow for larger dosages on workout days. For example:

Monday - 100mg dbol preworkout
Tuesday - 100mg dbol pre workout
Wednesday - rest no dbol
Thursday - 100mg dbol pre workout
Friday - 100mg dbol pre workout
Sat and Sun - Rest no dbol

This typically allows the user to reap all the positive benefits of higher doses at the most important time (during the workout) while avoiding a lot of the negative side effects that come with daily doses of such quantities. 

Take growth hormone only on workout days, in an entire dose post workout. Even if you can only afford 5iu's of real growth hormone per week, take the total amount you would use weekly and divide it in one larger shot post workout, only on workout days. Use insulin everyday, first thing in the morning before breakfast. On training days, use insulin pre workout - timing dependent on the time of insulin used. 10g carbs per 1iu is a good starting place for insulin but it is not the be all and end all, many people are fine with 6-7g per 1iu and then some require 14-15g per 1iu. The more GH you use, the more insulin your body can tolerate with less carbs, this is part of the reason GH keeps you leaner when using insulin. Remember, insulin increases nutrient shuttling it does NOT shuttle 100 percent of the nutrients into the muscles. When you add IGF to the equation, it causes the exact opposite effect of GH: you can now tolerate much less insulin and need much more carbs. The best combination is all 3: IGF, hGH and insulin. 

Sermorelin is another effective peptide that many guys are discovering has true benefits. it is very easy to get prescribed to sermorelin, pretty much any anti-aging doc will do it as it is far less regulated in its uses than GH. Sermorelin WILL keep you leaner, hungrier and have a synergistic muscle building effect with the anabolics as well as with other peptides like GH and IGF. The best way to use sermorelin is basically the opposite of GH: instead of one large dose, take sermorelin everyday, 3-5 times per day in the "saturation dose" each time. *

So, far the bodybuilder looking to build some serious size we now have:
2,000mg testosterone
1,000mg nandralone
100mg dbol pre workout, workout days only
10iu GH postworkout, workout days only
15iu insulin every morning
15iu insulin pre workout
1mg sermorelin 3-5x per day, everyday
120mcg IGF-1 pre workout pinned in muscles to be trained


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

*Biggest Drug Abusers In Pro Bodybuilding*

Everybody wants to know who are the biggest drug abusers in a sport thats entirely about abusing drugs. heres the list of the worst of the worst in current pro bodybuilding...

1) Kai Greene - of the current flock of top pros he is by far one of the worst especially when it comes to androgens. Of the guys competing in the Mr O he is on the highest amount of total test per week by a big margin. 

2) Dennis Wolf - scared to eat a single carb meal without slin 

3) Trey Brewer - not a pro, but basically added an extra gram of hormones into his stack every time he didnt place how he wanted. ended up learning the hard way that if you cant turn pro on 6 grams of gear, 20+ iu's of gh, etc you wont necessarily turn pro with 8 grams of gear, 25 iu's of gh...

4) Ronnie Coleman - slammed more parabolan than most people would believe, at times went to almost 40 iu's of gh, was a pig with slin, still wont stop using slin tren and 2+ grams of test even when he will never compete again

5) Silvio Samuel - not sure how current he is anymore after getting jaundice and frying his liver thanks to year long use of high dosed orals without any break


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

*Insulin and Fat Gain, Primobolan, GH dosing protocols, etc*

I receive a fair amount of private messages asking me specific drug advice which I pretty much always ignore. I am not in the business of providing specific drug advice on this forum. I have, however, received a plethora of questions that fall into the same categories over and over so I figured I would address some of them. 

1. Insulin and Fat Gain
- Everyone is always concerned about gaining fat on slin. There are some important things to realize about slin: 1) if you want to be truly huge you need to use insulin. 2) if you are not using enough drugs when you use insulin you will gain a little or a lot of fat dependent on your genetics. So how do you minimize fat gain on insulin? Slowly increase how much slin you are using and when you use it. Start with a small amount post workout. Ramp that up a bit. When you feel comfortable with that, start using it pre workout instead. Then start using it in the morning and pre workout. Then once those dosages top out (15-20iu each) start adding it before other meals, one meal at a time, and start low and build the doses up. When you top out at 15-20iu per shot per meal, add another slin shot. Finally, once you are using slin with every meal, pre workout and post workout, incorporate a long last insulin at the start of your day as well. Build the dosage up on that. Next, you need to make sure you are using enough of the other drugs to see results. You should not run insulin unless you are on at least a gram of test and 5iu GH everyday OR minimum 10iu GH blasting. If genetically you have a tendency to gain fat, it would be beneficial to run 50-75mcg t3 daily. Also do not fall into the trap of believing you NEED 10g carbs per 1iu insulin. That is a reasonable place to start to gauge your sensitivity but very very few people need that many carbs per 1iu. ESPECIALLY if you are using GH...I have personally gone as low as 6g carbs per 1iu. Insulin is not perfect, it will help to shuttle nutrients but that does not mean you can or should eat like a pig. In fact its quite the opposite...when on slin you need to be eating CLEANER than usual. Perhaps more carbs and protein but cleaner sources...chicken breast, tilapia, sweet potatoes, oats..these are the foods to eat when the slin hits you. 

2. Primobolan
Everyone is obsessed with primobolan. This is not new. Its been all the hype for a long time. The major issue with primobolan is that 1) you need to run a shitload if you are a man and 2) its usually fake. If you can actually get legit primo and run it in high doses, it works almost like tren without the negative side effects. That is not to say it doesnt have negative side effects. primo in effective doses will make you bald and flare up your prostate like nothing else. Regardless, there really is no point using primo if you are a man unless you can run it non stop at a gram MINIMUM. 1.2-1.5 grams primo run for the entire duration of a 16 week contest prep is a great thing. 

3. GH Dosing Protocols
I have explained these before so I will be brief 
1) Pre Contest/"Cutting"/etc...when the primary purpose is fat loss and not mass gain, GH should be dosed 3-5x throughout the day, everyday. i like to keep a constant stream in the body all day long pre contest so if you can only afford 15iu's per day, id recommend hitting it 2.5-3iu 5-6x per day. 
2) Mass Gain - if your goal is pure size, post workout IV blasts 3-4x per week with pre workout insulin is ideal. Anything less than 10iu is worthless for this protocol. Basically, take the amount of GH you can afford to use weekly and divide it by 3 (I typically recommend a 5x5 or DC split during offseason blasts anyhow which are usually 3 days per week) and take 3 large doses postworkout, IV. Wait 20-30 mins after the shot to have your post workout shake.


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## PillarofBalance (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm just gonna say that GB was my first board.  That place is fucked up. Its full of trolls and bullshitters and is the source of every sour rumor on the boards. They make more claims about what IFBB pro's are doing but really its posted by a 17 year old who can't get over 160 "no matter how much he eats."

I am reading this with a grain of sand the size of my left thigh.


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> I'm just gonna say that GB was my first board.  That place is fucked up. Its full of trolls and bullshitters and is the source of every sour rumor on the boards. They make more claims about what IFBB pro's are doing but really its posted by a 17 year old who can't get over 160 "no matter how much he eats."
> 
> I am reading this with a grain of sand the size of my left thigh.



LOL totally agree about GBs content

It's not that far fetched though; especially when you got gym rats running 3g just for kicks

Then you got amateur competitors like that one kid being honest about dosages/synthol/etc

I wish more would come to light...that way people will stop believing pro genes=pro size with low doses and shit lol 

Fun reading nonetheless


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## TheLupinator (Sep 1, 2013)

Couple grams of test with a gram of deca or EQ during the offseason.. seems pretty standard for a pro


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## grind4it (Sep 1, 2013)

Idk, if any of this is ligitement information originating from a "Pro". I do know this; it's a great read. Thanks for posting.


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## hulksmash (Sep 1, 2013)

grind4it said:


> Idk, if any of this is ligitement information originating from a "Pro". I do know this; it's a great read. Thanks for posting.



No problem

The only online gym rat I know that is open about dosages that is Pro size is Swiper

Swiper cruises on 1.5-2g test and 5iu of gh and then does blasts with 2-3G test with tren, deca, and an oral+gh

From our talks, his buddy likes runs gram of test and deca (I think he said a gram to me) and he's about the same size

On top of that Ive known a couple guys IRL(very rare) that do have pro size/bf levels who were cruising on total 1-2g of gear and blasting with total 2-4g

With all the people I know doing that, I don't find those protocols far fetched 

I also know that's just the average amongst pros...theres always exceptions; some do less/some do more


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## Jada (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for the reading post hulky, very interesting


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## hulksmash (Sep 2, 2013)

Jada said:


> Thanks for the reading post hulky, very interesting



No problem; its a fun read! 

Plus, it helps stop the "pro genes=Pro size with low doses/few compounds" bullshit rather than the truth of "pro genetics=pro size with big doses but no/minimal side effects"

*If the former were true, there would be MANY MORE on forums with close to nationals/pro size, or even amatuer size since 98% on forums run less than a 1g-1.5g of gear/week*


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## cawgdog (Dec 29, 2013)

Thanks for the valuable advice in this thread. Cheers.


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