# cashout advice pct



## gotti (Jan 3, 2013)

Hy im in week 13 of my test tren danabol cycle my stat are 230 lb, 6 feet, 30 years old my cycle looks like this (i dont use no ai in my cycle becouse im not gyno prone and i dont have no realy side efect only a little water retention who do not mind):
week 1-14 500 mg omnadren
week 1-10 400 mg tren e
week 1-4 and 9-12 50 mg danabol
week 15-17 2500 hcg eod total 8 injections 
week 18-19 100 mg clomid
week 20-21 50   mg clomid
week 22-23 25   mg clomid 
 my question is how much arimidex ( is the only ai to which I have access) i should run in my pct especially in hcg blast . Sorry my english Any advice is welcome!!


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## Cobra Strike (Jan 4, 2013)

Im not cashout but I do no a tad bit about steroid use and you my friend have no business running tren or test for that matter. Have you got your blood work done even once? Its guys like you that end up all fucked up. Im actually impressed that you are using hcg however you are using it in a fucked up way...and did you know that hcg has a very high aromatizing rate? 

What sides from estrogen are you even looking for? Just cause you dont see any "sides" doesnt mean your estrogen isnt through the dam roof....

cmon son get with the program and do some effin research

and why address this to cashout...its your first post

sorry for being rude but dam man


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## Christosterone (Jan 4, 2013)

If your asking how much arimidex in your pct you should run...means you shouldn't be running what you are, do you know purpose of pct? And why put cash in the title? This is weird.


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## gymrat827 (Jan 4, 2013)

Christosterone said:


> If your asking how much arimidex in your pct you should run...means you shouldn't be running what you are, do you know purpose of pct? And why put cash in the title? This is weird.



yea, esp. since its his 1st post.  


OP, buddy, start tapering down on all that stuff.  if your on the d bol drop it asap.  Drop everything but the tes and hit up the hcg good.

you should be more concerned about recovery at this stage.  Esp. after all that you ve said.  you will also want to get nolva too, but need to give time for the 19nor to clear before you can start it.


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## coltmc4545 (Jan 4, 2013)

No pct plan. No AI. No bloodwork. I'm guessing even though you think you don't convert e very high, running dbol (aromatizes fast) and hcg (aromatizes fast), your E's probably sky high which also means your progesterone levels are sky high which means you're going to have a lot more problems then just trying to restart your HPTA. I'm not going to lay out a pct for you and I don't think any of these guys will either because a simple google search and you can find a pct. maybe do that and then ask how to incorporate your AI and hcg into it.


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## gotti (Jan 4, 2013)

I asked because I saw cashout posted in this forum and i saw on another forum one type of his pct . If i have bloodwork done ?every year I make  my bloodwork 2 times and the last time 6 months after pct 1000 hcg EOD for 3 weeks followed by 4 weeks with 50 mg Clomid my free testosterone was 1080. If i have any idea about the side effects of estrogen? yes! and so I did not have any erection problems or high blood pressure . Last year I made ​​the same cycle grew 10 kg and I kept 6 kg after pct . On the cyce i ws run 1 mg arimidex Monday and Thursday plus 0.5 mg dostinex Monday and Thursday and again at the end we had no less than low libido problem. Anyway thank you in advance and not necessary to be ironic! and again sorry my english im from romania


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## SAD (Jan 4, 2013)

Your *free* test was 1080?  ALL NATTY!!!????  That means you either have bull balls, or you meant total testosterone, because it's about 10-20 times what it should be.

I'm just busting your bull balls.  But seriously, drop the attitude (even though you were greeted with attitude, it wasn't undeserved) and allow us to help you by understanding that your lack of research and planning potentially makes all of us look bad and helps the general public demonize AAS use.


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## gotti (Jan 4, 2013)

this is the pct i have saw and he use letro not adex
Week HCG clomid Nolva letro
1 M/W/F/Su 2000 1.25 M/Th
2 T/Th/Sa 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 M/W/F 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 Sat/Sun 100 40 1.25 M/Th
4 Every Day 100 40 1.25 M/Th
5 100 40 1.25 M/Th
6 100 40 1.25 M/Th
7 40 1.25 M/Th
8 40 1.25 M/Th
9 1.25 M/Th
10 1.25 M/Th


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## gymrat827 (Jan 4, 2013)

why are u using letro in pct??  its about 50x too strong for pct needs.  run the hcg while the long esters are clearing.  

once you start clomid drop the hcg.  than after 1wk on clomid solo add in some nolva too.


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## gotti (Jan 4, 2013)

thats my question i dont whant to use letro in my pct like cashout say i whant tu use adex but im not sure abouth the dose ... and sorry my total testosteron was 1080 !


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## gymrat827 (Jan 4, 2013)

adex dosing should be 1mg EOD.  or .5mg ED.  that should keep you good on 500mg T or in pct.


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## SAD (Jan 4, 2013)

The problem with adex in pct, as I've said 20 times, is that it is _not_ a suicide inhibitor, meaning you will most likely have an estrogen rebound problem when you discontinue use.  The far better option, IMO, is aromasin.


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## gotti (Jan 4, 2013)

i have one more week on 500 mg omnadren and after this i whil start hcg blast for abouth 3 week 2500 hcg eod like chasout say is not a little to much ? and i should continue with adex at 1 mg eod or 0.5 ed on the blast hcg phase? and when i whil start clomid what dose of adexi should run? thank you gymrat


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## Big Worm (Jan 4, 2013)

If you read cashouts thread about his exit protocol he explains it clear as day why he used letro.  His exit is pretty far from what a standard pct would be. 

I don't see a problem tapering off an AI in your pct. But not with adex.


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## SAD (Jan 4, 2013)

SAD said:


> The problem with adex in pct, as I've said 20 times, is that it is _not_ a suicide inhibitor, meaning you will most likely have an estrogen rebound problem when you discontinue use.  The far better option, IMO, is aromasin.



The problem with adex in pct, as I've said 21 times, is that it is _not_ a suicide inhibitor, meaning you will most likely have an estrogen rebound problem when you discontinue use.  The far better option, IMO, is aromasin.


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## gotti (Jan 4, 2013)

Thank you for your prompt answers and I apologize if I upset anyone


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## SAD (Jan 4, 2013)

SAD said:


> The problem with adex in pct, as I've said 21 times, is that it is _not_ a suicide inhibitor, meaning you will most likely have an estrogen rebound problem when you discontinue use.  The far better option, IMO, is aromasin.



The problem with adex in pct, as I've said 22 times, is that it is _not_ a suicide inhibitor, meaning you will most likely have an estrogen rebound problem when you discontinue use.  The far better option, IMO, is aromasin.


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## gotti (Jan 4, 2013)

the problem  is adex is the only ai i can find in ours pharmacy


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## gotti (Jan 4, 2013)

i will try to find some aromasin next week and star with dose 12,5 mg ed from the start of hcg blast until the last day of clomid or when i start clomid i should take 12.5 eod until de last day of pct??


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## SAD (Jan 4, 2013)

You could do it either way and be fine.  Impossible to say without bloodwork due to biochemical individuality, but you'd be fine with either way.


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## Cashout (Jan 4, 2013)

I am guessing you got this off of ology - you didn't read the whole thread and the follow up thread - I suggest you taper out your AI in weeks 11 - 14 like this...

11 .625 M/Th
12 .625 M/th
13 .625 W
14 .625 W
15  -done-

You can use Adex as opposed to Letro. I have seen better results with Letro both personally and with large number of folks with whom I've worked through this PCT.

If you are going to use Adex start with .5 on M/Th until Week 10 then begin the taper by dropping to .25 on M/Th and finally .25 on Wed only for the last two weeks.

I written many times that I do recommend Asin during PCT because it is steroidal in nature and has demonstrated androgenic properties that can elicit an effect in the HPTA feedback loop. In short, you don't want extra androgens in the body during PCT as they may negatively impact the full restoration of the HPTA.




gotti said:


> this is the pct i have saw and he use letro not adex
> Week HCG clomid Nolva letro
> 1 M/W/F/Su 2000 1.25 M/Th
> 2 T/Th/Sa 2000 1.25 M/Th
> ...


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## SAD (Jan 5, 2013)

Never had an issue with the purported androgenic activity of aromasin.  In my and many others' experience using aromasin during pct, it's been nothing but helpful.  It would take constant bloodwork throughout a pct to even attempt to monitor the negative impact (if any) of aromasin during pct.  What level of androgenic activity are you claiming it has?  Is this based off the fact that it can raise natty test levels when used as a stand-alone?  Because clomid does that too.  I AM trying to be argumentative but not to be an ass, but rather to really get to the bottom of this.


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## Cashout (Jan 5, 2013)

SAD said:


> Never had an issue with the purported androgenic activity of aromasin.  In my and many others' experience using aromasin during pct, it's been nothing but helpful.  It would take constant bloodwork throughout a pct to even attempt to monitor the negative impact (if any) of aromasin during pct.  What level of androgenic activity are you claiming it has?  Is this based off the fact that it can raise natty test levels when used as a stand-alone?  Because clomid does that too.  I AM trying to be argumentative but not to be an ass, but rather to really get to the bottom of this.



No worries. I don't think you are being an ass or argumentative. 

Actually it is a topic that is worth discussing simply because so few folks actually understand the significance of the steroidal AIs like Asin and ATD and non-steroidal AIs like Adex and Letro.

First, steroidal AIs all have the same basic A-B-C-D steroidal ring structure as an AAS. The ABCD structural ring is why they are refered to as "Steroidal." 

It has nothing to do with the fact that they rise test when used as a stand alone product.

Obviously, there are differing effects from steroidal AIs compared to other steroidal structures like AAS. However, Steroidal AI have been clinically evaluated in many different studies to determine the extert of their respective androgenic effects. Most notable, steroidal AIs have been shown to moderate the androgen receptor in both bone and muscle tissue.

Specificly, The principal metabolite of exemestane, 17-hydroexemestane (17β-hydroxy-6-methylenandrosta-1,4-diene-3,17-dione), binds with high affinity to the androgen receptor.

On example is http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/10/17/5717.short

Also, look at...(sorry I only have hard copies of these handy)

Chang C-Y, Jansen M, Sathya G, et al. Aromasin and its 17-hydro metabolite manifest androgenic activity which may be responsible for its bone protective effect [abstract]. Breast Cancer Res Treat 2003;82 

and 

Ariazi EA, Leitao A, Oprea TI, et al. Exemestane's 17-hydroxylated metabolite exerts biological effects as an androgen. Mol Cancer Ther 2007;6:2817-2827.

With the noted androgenic properties, it is not a reach to postulate that the HPTA may recognize, via the feedback loop, the androgenic receptor stimulation as an overabundance of androgens in the system and react accordingly to reduce the testosterone production being signaled in the testes.

That is the last possible message we want being sent to the testes during PCT. So, my recommendation has always been avoid the possibility and leave the steroidal AIs for on cycle use when the additional androgen stimulation may be of benefit.

All this now written, PLEASE understand that doesn't mean using Asin during PCT is wrong and won't work. That is not what I am saying at all.

So what I am say is this - I want to maximize every facet of my PCT to achieve my goal in restoring HPTA equilibrium and the current science tells me that this method may have merit.


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## 69nites (Jan 5, 2013)

Cashout said:


> No worries. I don't think you are being an ass or argumentative.
> 
> Actually it is a topic that is worth discussing simply because so few folks actually understand the significance of the steroidal AIs like Asin and ATD and non-steroidal AIs like Adex and Letro.
> 
> ...


I would like to see a blind clinical trial of this. Too bad it's not really possible to do. 

I have used aromasin in pct a lot. Always worked just fine. 

Even if there is a bit of negative effect I think the positive outweighs the negative. Plus for me it works better than any other ai.


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## gotti (Jan 5, 2013)

Thank you very much cashout !!!


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## gotti (Jan 5, 2013)

I think i will go with adex like Cashout says but if i get aromasin in hand what dosage i should take  cashout ??


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## beasto (Jan 25, 2013)

You should for sure get bloodwork done bro that way you know exactly how your e levels are and how they are responding to certain dosages for certain AI.


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## warlord (May 17, 2013)

Hey Cashout. Just to clarify. 

12 weeks of Test E only

So 14 days after last pin. start Hcg blast.

So run .5 Adex twice a week, from beginning of cycle, all the way until the last month of pct

Then the first 2 weeks of last month of pct you taper to .25 twice a week then the last 2 weeks of pct you drop to .25 once a week. Is this correct?  Thanks.


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## Cashout (May 19, 2013)

How much test are you running? 14 days is fine if you are running 500-600 mgs per week.


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## #TheMatrix (May 19, 2013)

hows the beach home cash?


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## warlord (May 19, 2013)

I am Running 500 mg a week. 

Do i still run Adex during the 2 weeks after last pin and before hcg blast starts?

and also, i run Adex all the way in to my pct at .5 mg twice a week untill the last 2 weeks of my pct. Then start tapering?

Thanks cashout. First cycle wanna make sure i get it done right.


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## Cashout (May 19, 2013)

Yes and yes.


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## SHRUGS (May 20, 2013)

Cash your a good bro for taking the time to help out people with questions like these. Very glad to have you here at SI brother!
Respect, !SHRUGS!


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## warlord (May 20, 2013)

thanks for the advice cash. much appreciated


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