# My son tells me on a walk yesterday heaven  is not real.



## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

So 2 days in a row my kid comes up to me first 2 days ago he says "Hey Tata (polish for dad) god is not real" I asked who told him that? His mom SMFH

Yesterday were walking to the park starts asking me about my dad who passed last year then says "Tata heaven is not real" now my step daughter telling him that. 

I am not saying I believe in religion, I do not. I was an alter boy went to Sunday school was even a teachers assistant in Sunday school until I got fired from the voluntary  job for telling kids they do not need to go to church just because they believe in god. No I was not fondled by any priests lol 

I believe in a higher power maybe you can call that God and I believe in energy or a soul you can call it and that energy goes somewhere when you die and that somewhere you can call heaven if you want. But what I do not believe is programming a 4 year old child into believing one way or the other I never push any of this on him and I tell him what I believe but also finish that with when you get older and learn and experience life more you will make your own decision. I stress to him not to believe everything he hears I know hes still young but that does need to be programmed in his head. 

My wife is an Atheist or what ever the **** she is I do not know and that did not detour me from marrying her and having a child but I was not expecting her to push shit like this on children. This is a big deal for me because I need my child to be open minded and make his own decisions. 

I really have no idea what is the truth, big bang theory ok well that's a energy/higher power but what made that happen? No idea but I will always ask questions but for damn sure there is something out there in my opinion and I will have my own thoughts and beliefs I built through out my life and I feel good about them but each person needs to have their own customized to fit them and I will be damned if my child has that taken from him, it's important to have so you can live your life by it. 


Sorry had to vent.


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## Trump (Jul 3, 2020)

Would it be different if she was pushing Christian views on him? I openly tell my children my beliefs or lack of them.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

Trump said:


> Would it be different if she was pushing Christian views on him? I openly tell my children my beliefs or lack of them.



I do not want any views pushed. Your programming him tell him what you believe and let him process it but do not tell him like your stating facts kids believe anything you tell them and I do not think it's right that you make them think stuff you have no idea if it's real what you believe.


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## CJ (Jul 3, 2020)

So tell your child what you believe, what mom believes, explain how many people in this world believe many different things.

Encourage him to be curious and explore, and come to his own beliefs, and be respectful of other's beliefs... Except that Scientology shit! :32 (20):


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

CJ275 said:


> So tell your child what tou6bekieve, what mom believes, explain how many people in this world believe many different things.
> 
> Encourage him to explore, and come to his own beliefs, and be respectful of other's beliefs... Except that Scientology shit! :32 (20):



Dude that is exactly what I did. Told him do not listen to everything you here, here is what I believe here is what you mom believes and you live life not worried about this for a while and when you get older you make up your own mind because in reality no one really knows. 

Then I ordered him an L Ron Hubbard book from amazon LMAO


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## BrotherJ (Jul 3, 2020)

What CJ said - encourage him to think freely for himself and to be open to honest inquiry. I think parents can be open and transparent about their views while also adding that many people believe different things and the kids should form their own beliefs over time.


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## Gibsonator (Jul 3, 2020)

wife or ex wife?


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## Trump (Jul 3, 2020)

you don’t have an opinion your a born again Christian, the worst kind



Gibsonator said:


> wife or ex wife?


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## Robdjents (Jul 3, 2020)

In my house we dont believe in god...ive not seen one shred of evidence to support it...but my kid goes to church with my parents..we dont fuss about it and figure she will make her own decisions on what she wants to believe in because just because im her parent doesnt give the right to choose their beliefs...if your kid doesnt believe in god or heaven then i would accept it. But as a kid they will chamge their mind a bunch.  And pick and choose beliefs...take mine for instance..she attends church with her grandparents and comes home and doesnt believe any of it...she sees it as storys...but santa clause is 100 percent real in our house...i guess what im saying is support your kids no matter what and let them decide for themselves whats real and whats not. Hope that makes sense


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## The Phoenix (Jul 3, 2020)

Double standard?


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 3, 2020)

God ain't gonna lift these weights for me! Lol

In all seriousness though, I try to teach my kids to look at all points of view and make their own decisions about what works for them. I do encourage them to treat everyone with respect as an equal and not to judge other people for their beliefs. Being kind to our fellow humans is a core value for me.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

gibsonator said:


> wife or ex wife?



wife no ex wife yet lol fingers crossed


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

Robdjents said:


> In my house we dont believe in god...ive not seen one shred of evidence to support it...but my kid goes to church with my parents..we dont fuss about it and figure she will make her own decisions on what she wants to believe in because just because im her parent doesnt give the right to choose their beliefs...if your kid doesnt believe in god or heaven then i would accept it. But as a kid they will chamge their mind a bunch.  And pick and choose beliefs...take mine for instance..she attends church with her grandparents and comes home and doesnt believe any of it...she sees it as storys...but santa clause is 100 percent real in our house...i guess what im saying is support your kids no matter what and let them decide for themselves whats real and whats not. Hope that makes sense



Of course it does I am promoting same thing your saying.


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## German89 (Jul 3, 2020)

I send mine to catholic school.  I'm not into religion.

I don't push anything onto him.  At least at school they can teach him.  If he chooses to believe, so be it.


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

German89 said:


> I send mine to catholic school.  I'm not into religion.
> 
> I don't push anything onto him.  At least at school they can teach him.  If he chooses to believe, so be it.



ive been to catholic school I can’t do that to my kid.


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## Trump (Jul 3, 2020)

was you fondled by a priest?



Bobbyloads said:


> ive been to catholic school I can’t do that to my kid.


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## German89 (Jul 3, 2020)

Bobbyloads said:


> ive been to catholic school I can’t do that to my kid.



maybe it's different up here than down there


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

Trump said:


> was you fondled by a priest?



**** no the whole mindset of catholic schools and religion to me is a joke. In my opinion religion set the world back thousands of years but that’s a whole other post lol


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 3, 2020)

German89 said:


> maybe it's different up here than down there



possible but pretty sure it’s all the same


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## Trump (Jul 3, 2020)

religion served a purpose at the time, the world was carnage and religion was the first laws of modern man. They are past there use now though, now they just about control and stealing money 


Bobbyloads said:


> **** no the whole mindset of catholic schools and religion to me is a joke. In my opinion religion set the world back thousands of years but that’s a whole other post lol


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 3, 2020)

Heaven is VERY real and there is lots of proof:

https://www.youtube.com/c/NDEaccounts/videos

Some of the most interesting accounts are Muslims who had NDEs and converted to Christianity.

As a Christian I mostly stick to the Bible but I also found these books particularly interesting:

The Books Of Enoch - Joseph B. Lumpkin - Enoch mentioned in the Bible was the great grandfather of Noah. Because he was most likely Ethiopian, it is believed that these books may have been pulled out of the very first accounts of the Old Testament by the Greeks and/or the Romans. The books are still part of the Ethiopian Bible.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible - Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint, and Eugene Ulrich - The oldest known Bible translated for the first time into English.

The Nag Hammadhi Scriptures - Marvin Meyer - Sacred Gnostic texts.

I have studied religious studies, philosophy, psychology, sociology, etc. during my time at Arizona State University. I actually majored in religious studies my first year. Lots of books out there...but these are the ones that really stood out to me.

When you translate the Bible written in Hebrew/Aramaic to English, often one verse can mean 10 different things, all equally true and so enlightening it almost feels like magic to me. Much is lost in translation to English.

I might be scoffed at for this post but oh well!


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## Trump (Jul 3, 2020)

Garbage, Christianity is no more real than Santa. 



Skullcrusher said:


> Heaven is VERY real and there is lots of proof:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/c/NDEaccounts/videos
> 
> ...


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## CJ (Jul 3, 2020)

I just throw virgins into volcanoes, cuz I'm OG like that.


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 3, 2020)

CJ275 said:


> I just throw virgins into volcanoes, cuz I'm OG like that.



LOL, kicking it old school!


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 3, 2020)

CJ275 said:


> I just throw virgins into volcanoes, cuz I'm OG like that.



They must be deflowered first to reap the full rewards of the kingdom of heaven.


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## motown1002 (Jul 3, 2020)

CJ275 said:


> I just throw virgins into volcanoes, cuz I'm OG like that.



Where do you find these things you call "virgins"?  lol


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## German89 (Jul 3, 2020)

Trump said:


> Garbage, Christianity is no more real than Santa.



santa is real!

https://santaclausvillage.info/accommodation/

also.. santa is german


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 3, 2020)

German89 said:


> santa is real!
> 
> https://santaclausvillage.info/accommodation/
> 
> also.. santa is german



https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/santa-claus


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## BrotherIron (Jul 3, 2020)

I can't hate but notice but these days, it's popular to be atheist.  I don't tell anyone what they should or should not believe.  Everyone should be able to make up their own mind.  I'm not a fan or organized religion but that's my opinion... I do believe in a higher power though.


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## ATLRigger (Jul 3, 2020)

So if ur Muslim and do suicide bombing u get something like 70 virgins to urself in the afterlife. But have u ever slept with a virgin? They’re horrible in the sack! Who would want 70 something inexperienced women? 
(Not my joke. Can’t remember the comedian who said it)


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## Jin (Jul 3, 2020)

ATLRigger said:


> So if ur Muslim and do suicide bombing u get something like 70 virgins to urself in the afterlife. But have u ever slept with a virgin? They’re horrible in the sack! Who would want 70 something inexperienced women?
> (Not my joke. Can’t remember the comedian who said it)



No, the joke is that there are 70 virgins waiting for you.


And they’re all boys.


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## Gibsonator (Jul 3, 2020)

Jin said:


> No, the joke is that there are 70 virgins waiting for you.
> 
> 
> And they’re all boys.



right, pretty sure it doesn't specify man/woman :32 (6):


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## ATLRigger (Jul 4, 2020)

At least half should be boys


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## German89 (Jul 4, 2020)

Skullcrusher said:


> https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/santa-claus



Too much reading. Give me the tl;dr version please?

All my facts come from here and please do not taint my perspective


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 4, 2020)

Trump said:


> religion served a purpose at the time, the world was carnage and religion was the first laws of modern man. They are past there use now though, now they just about control and stealing money



I believe that is true but the whole killing of you think the earth is flat, priest not being able to have wives so fortune stays in the religion, high priests pulling strings in the mid evil times, etc it to even to get into the pedophilia conspiracies


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## Bobbyloads (Jul 4, 2020)

German89 said:


> santa is real!
> 
> https://santaclausvillage.info/accommodation/
> 
> also.. santa is german



im actually 25% German and I’m going to get my German passport cause my dad has one they offered it to me when I was with him at The German embassy thing renewing his passport before he passed his mom was 100% German


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 4, 2020)

German89 said:


> Too much reading. Give me the tl;dr version please?
> 
> All my facts come from here and please do not taint my perspective



Short version is St. Nicholas was from what is now known as Turkey. 

First celebrated by the Dutch who are Germanic but native to the Netherlands.

So jolly old St. Nick actually did exist at one time!


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## Sicwun88 (Jul 4, 2020)

So you grew up being a alter boy?
Is tht when all your problems started? Lol


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## German89 (Jul 4, 2020)

Skullcrusher said:


> Short version is St. Nicholas was from what is now known as Turkey.
> 
> First celebrated by the Dutch who are Germanic but native to the Netherlands.
> 
> So jolly old St. Nick actually did exist at one time!



Yes he did now we just carry the tradition


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## Rot-Iron66 (Jul 4, 2020)

Not a believer of sky wizards and all that either, it all good...


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## ccpro (Jul 4, 2020)

Like op I believe in a higher power whatever that may be.  And like op I went to Catholic School for 12 years, alter boy, tons of religious classes and I am not religious  I think people fain and wade on their faith.  My kids attended Catholic School as well because I felt they needed direction before they drew their own conclusions.  My brother is agnostic, I feel my oldest son 19 may be as well. I think it's totally wrong for wife to impose her philosophy on a 4year old, I almost feel religion is a "crutch" for most until they figure life out a little better.  My 1/2 cent.


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## Gabriel (Jul 4, 2020)

To everyone there is free will...Gods gift to us..use it as you may..but know choices have consciousness..I pride myself on not preaching my believes and expect the same from others.. however I believe we will all have to pay for our sins one day.. either here or somewhere else another day...let every man decide their own faith and be judged 1 day..for we are men and responsible for our actions...NO ONE IS UNCOUNTABLE


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## Grizzly911 (Jul 4, 2020)

Hey Bobby, it's like the other guys said earlier. You have to let him do his own research and allow him to learn based on his own experience. At the same time don't allow his mind to be closed off by other people. Based on my own experience my parents used to go to baptist churches and try to use religion to control me. It's when I begin to seek for myself what is real and what is not. I let the scriptures lead me, I write down questions in my head and try to seek the answers for myself, sometimes I get the answers right away and other times the answers come later. If you boy ask questions, simply answer what you know and other times, tell him to wait. It'll come to him.


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## heavydeads83 (Jul 4, 2020)

I was raised religious as they come.  Now I’m not sure what I believe.  I’m 36 and quit going to church when I was 18.


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## The Phoenix (Jul 5, 2020)

heavydeads83 said:


> I was raised religious as they come.  Now I’m not sure what I believe.  I’m 36 and quit going to church when I was 18.



I was also raised very religious and went astray from the time I was 18-33. I started to see the reality of the situation and made my decisions accordingly (take that however your imagination leads you). I am thankful for being raised right those first 7 years which gave my the insight on the steps I should take as an adult. I just have personal faith and attend a Messianic synagogue for fellowship & learning. I’ve gotten away from traditional churches and have learned that faith makes better sense from a Jewish perspective than following the long held traditional rituals of paganized Christianity.


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## Skullcrusher (Jul 7, 2020)

I think that hunger for truth is very important. Not only in religion but in life in general.


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## Jin (Jul 7, 2020)

Skullcrusher said:


> I think that hunger for truth is very important. Not only in religion but in life in general.



“The unexamened life isn’t worth living.”
    -Socrates


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## CohibaRobusto (Jul 7, 2020)

I really like Pyrrho:

Pyrrho realized that the ignorance he confessed to himself was very different in kind from the ignorance of children, dogs, and stones. It was learned ignorance. It was the result of intellect and inquiry, of mind trying to know and failing, of reason propounding questions to itself that it could not answer. It was a painfully acquired recognition of his limitations and himself, not the barren ignorance that never tried to conquer itself. Ever since Socrates learned that all his wisdom consisted in knowing his ignorance, skeptics have prized learned ignorance as the first step in honest inquiries toward truth.

Learned ignorance is not an end in itself. However, in the skeptic's experience inquiry usually fails and when it fails honest inquirers recognize learned ignorance to be the result. But before any serious inquiry can begin we must admit that we do not know. Learned ignorance is humility and honesty, the opposite of rash prejudice, and at least the ground (if not the consequence) of any genuine investigation.


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## BrotherJ (Jul 7, 2020)

My parents shoved religion down my throat growing up - it had the opposite effect on me and caused me to become full on anti-religious/atheist for a long time. I don't consider myself atheist now, more agnostic/whatever now. And lost the whole anti-religious zeal once I worked through bitterness/resentment towards my parents. Looking back if they had not forced any of it on me I would have been more open to it, at least from the standpoint of benefits of having a community/support group around you. Moving when I did it can be hard to make in-person friends when you don't have a church or communal thing to plug into.


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## Jin (Jul 7, 2020)

BrotherJ said:


> My parents shoved religion down my throat growing up - it had the opposite effect on me and caused me to become full on anti-religious/atheist for a long time. I don't consider myself atheist now, more agnostic/whatever now. And lost the whole anti-religious zeal once I worked through bitterness/resentment towards my parents. Looking back if they had not forced any of it on me I would have been more open to it, at least from the standpoint of benefits of having a community/support group around you. Moving when I did it can be hard to make in-person friends when you don't have a church or communal thing to plug into.



Spirituality>religion 

Jesus was a huge critic of religious people:

”in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of man”


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## Jin (Jul 7, 2020)

Jin said:


> Spirituality>religion
> 
> Jesus was a huge critic of religious people:
> 
> ”in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of man”



Damn cut and paste.


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## German89 (Jul 7, 2020)

Jin said:


> Damn cut and paste.


rookie moves


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## lfod14 (Jul 9, 2020)

CohibaRobusto said:


> God ain't gonna lift these weights for me! Lol
> 
> In all seriousness though, I try to teach my kids to look at all points of view and make their own decisions about what works for them. I do encourage them to treat everyone with respect as an equal and not to judge other people for their beliefs. Being kind to our fellow humans is a core value for me.



THIS! No proof of a God, or a lack of one. The lessons most religions teach are good ones though. Teach it all and let them decide when they're old enough.


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## lfod14 (Jul 9, 2020)

German89 said:


> I send mine to catholic school.  I'm not into religion.
> 
> I don't push anything onto him.  At least at school they can teach him.  If he chooses to believe, so be it.



I'm may be right behind you man! I went to Catholic school for my first couple years and swore I'd never do that to my kid, but given the world we live in now I'm borderline petrified of what the public school system will brainwash him with!


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