# proviron anyone used it?



## therealkozmo

Has anyone used proviron


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## DocDePanda187123

I would suggest saving your money and spending it on something worthwhile unless you want it for its sexual benefits but fr that I'd just use Cialis, PT141, and prami and blow it out the water literally.


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## BigSwolePump

I have never used it. I see good and bad reviews online. It is supposed to lower shbg and free up more test in the blood. It sounds like a good idea but I imagine if it was as good as it claims to be, you would see more people using it lol. It seems pricey from places that I have seen it available so I haven't even been tempted to try it.


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## therealkozmo

I want it for its help with post finasteride syndrome


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## Nattydread

I've used it many times. I would run it year round at 25-50mg depending on how much I had. I like the way it would cut bloat when on high test. Some people don't like and to each his own. I like it and will continue to use.


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## therealkozmo

I've read of it not being suppressive and actually raising lh. Probably because it binds with shbg and lowers e2. Stupid FDA hasn't approved this so it is going to be a little more tricky


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## BigSwolePump

Nattydread said:


> I've used it many times. I would run it year round at 25-50mg depending on how much I had. I like the way it would cut bloat when on high test. Some people don't like and to each his own. I like it and will continue to use.


Not to get off topic but did you run it with an AI on the high test cycles or alone?


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## motown1002

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I would suggest saving your money and spending it on something worthwhile unless you want it for its sexual benefits but fr that I'd just use Cialis, PT141, and prami and blow it out the water literally.



Same here.  I just use the Cialis.  PT-141 makes me sick.  Wish I could find a way around that because it seems better than the C.


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## DocDePanda187123

motown1002 said:


> Same here.  I just use the Cialis.  PT-141 makes me sick.  Wish I could find a way around that because it seems better than the C.



Low dose to start and work up as needed is all I can offer. I've used too big a dose and gotten sick. Reduced it and felt great.


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## DocDePanda187123

therealkozmo said:


> I've read of it not being suppressive and actually raising lh. Probably because it binds with shbg and lowers e2. Stupid FDA hasn't approved this so it is going to be a little more tricky



More like bc it's weak as hell and doesn't do anything worthwhile that can't be had for cheaper.


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## BigSwolePump

DocDePanda187123 said:


> More like bc it's weak as hell and doesn't do anything worthwhile that can't be had for cheaper.


Like what? I like the idea of what it says it can do. Lowering estrogen while freeing up test. I mean I know an AI can help with lowering estrogen sides but what would free up test. Or is that really not worth doing?


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## PillarofBalance

BigSwolePump said:


> Like what? I like the idea of what it says it can do. Lowering estrogen while freeing up test. I mean I know an AI can help with lowering estrogen sides but what would free up test. Or is that really not worth doing?



It's not all that effective. If you want to lower e2 then use a drug that actually does that effectively.


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## MrRippedZilla

Outside of the libido benefits, which as Doc pointed out can be found with better alternatives ie cialis that don't come with the suppressive negative, its a complete waste of money and a shitty drug in general. 

Also note that the data suggesting that it doesn't suppress the system inevitably involves methodological issues, which is the *primary *reason why it appears that the suppression is "insignificant". Dosing once per day on a drug that has a 12-13hr half life, shit like that.


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## BigSwolePump

PillarofBalance said:


> It's not all that effective. If you want to lower e2 then use a drug that actually does that effectively.


Fair enough, I have never really considered it but I can see how its claims could make someone think about it.


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## Seeker

There was a time when it's all there was. Not much else. Was it helpful? Yes it was. Was it 100% effective? No it was not. Because there were cases of guys still catching gyno even when using it. Obviously there are much better choices today.


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## DocDePanda187123

BigSwolePump said:


> Like what? I like the idea of what it says it can do. Lowering estrogen while freeing up test. I mean I know an AI can help with lowering estrogen sides but what would free up test. Or is that really not worth doing?



The more I look into it, the more evidence I find that lowering SHBG does not increase free testosterone levels. Besides borscience parroting I can't find anything reliable that suggests altering SHBG affects free testosterone levels. Also, people assume SHBG is a bad hormone but it serves an extremely important purpose.


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## knightmare999

DocDePanda187123 said:


> The more I look into it, the more evidence I find that lowering SHBG does not increase free testosterone levels. Besides borscience parroting I can't find anything reliable that suggests altering SHBG affects free testosterone levels. Also, people assume SHBG is a bad hormone but it serves an extremely important purpose.



Would be interested to read the evidence of lowered SHBG not increasing free testosterone if you have some links handy or can otherwise point me in the right direction. 

Thanks in advance.


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## PillarofBalance

knightmare999 said:


> Would be interested to read the evidence of lowered SHBG not increasing free testosterone if you have some links handy or can otherwise point me in the right direction.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



You are asking him to demonstrate a negative.


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## PillarofBalance

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Also, people assume SHBG is a bad hormone but it serves an extremely important purpose.



Quick word on wtf SHBG is/does https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2080856


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## knightmare999

PillarofBalance said:


> Quick word on wtf SHBG is/does https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2080856



"Principles and Practice of Endocrinology and Metabolism" describes SHBG, also, but it seems to indicate a correlation between SHBG and free testosterone.


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## knightmare999

PillarofBalance said:


> You are asking him to demonstrate a negative.



He's stated that he had evidence.  I asked him to present the evidence, as I would like to read it and correct my misunderstanding.


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## knightmare999

PillarofBalance said:


> Quick word on wtf SHBG is/does https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2080856


From that document:

"
Knowledge of SHBG concentration also enables a calculation of free testosterone (the 'derived' free testosterone")
another extremely sensitive index of abnormal
androgen status.
The finding of a low SHBG is significant and
has several important implications.
(i) Total testosterone and SHBG concentrations
are partially interdependent. A suppressed
SHBG in the presence of a high normal or
slightly elevated total testosterone infers an
increase in 'bioavailable' androgen with a
consequent increase in peripheral androgen
activity.
"

Im sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but I'm still understanding this as reduced SHBG increases free testosterone.  Or rather, free testosterone is not reduced as much by lower SHBG levels.  
Interested because this would change some of the purported effects of Mast, etc (which supposedly increase free test due to effects on SHBG).
Thanks again.


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## therealkozmo

SHBG binds to test. If SHBG is lowered then more testosterone is free and unbound.


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## PillarofBalance

knightmare999 said:


> From that document:
> 
> "
> Knowledge of SHBG concentration also enables a calculation of free testosterone (the 'derived' free testosterone")
> another extremely sensitive index of abnormal
> androgen status.
> The finding of a low SHBG is significant and
> has several important implications.
> (i) Total testosterone and SHBG concentrations
> are partially interdependent. A suppressed
> SHBG in the presence of a high normal or
> slightly elevated total testosterone infers an
> increase in 'bioavailable' androgen with a
> consequent increase in peripheral androgen
> activity.
> "
> 
> Im sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but I'm still understanding this as reduced SHBG increases free testosterone.  Or rather, free testosterone is not reduced as much by lower SHBG levels.
> Interested because this would change some of the purported effects of Mast, etc (which supposedly increase free test due to effects on SHBG).
> Thanks again.



This was my understanding of it yes. But it binds to more than just testosterone. Does it have an affinity for test? I don't know.  I think we could use a thread devotes to exploring SHBG. If you got time you mind kicking it off?


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## Heybro

I like to run it in all my cycles, for me it makes the cycles much more effective , I don't need to use an AE, and makes me want to **** Anthony that moves, no need for viagra etc..., much like caber, it makes you want to have sex, it just doesn't give you a hard on.


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## TrickWilliams

Heybro said:


> I like to run it in all my cycles, for me it makes the cycles much more effective , I don't need to use an AE, and makes me want to **** Anthony



Who is Anthony?


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## BigSwolePump

TrickWilliams said:


> Who is Anthony?


I am not sure but I hope an AE is some kind of contraceptive.


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## DocDePanda187123

I'll try and post up some of the things I've found later on tonight.


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## DocDePanda187123

PillarofBalance said:


> This was my understanding of it yes. But it binds to more than just testosterone. Does it have an affinity for test? I don't know.  I think we could use a thread devotes to exploring SHBG. If you got time you mind kicking it off?



I think the only thing that SHBG has a stronger binding affinity for than test is DHT.


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## knightmare999

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I'll try and post up some of the things I've found later on tonight.



Thanks, Doc.  I started a thread on SHBG last night if you want to post it there.

Regards.


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## knightmare999

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I think the only thing that SHBG has a stronger binding affinity for than test is DHT.



I bring this question up in the SHBG thread, due to DHT derivatives  (e.g., Mast, Winny) and their effects on SHBG.

Thanks again, doc.


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## therealkozmo

Cialis doesn't raise libido


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## Chaos501

Maybe if your goal is giant loads... otherwise cialis is a better route.


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## anaballs

Not sure what you meant by freeing up test? Doesn't Proviron help out make test by itself or are you saying in combination with a test base, it would "free up more test"?



BigSwolePump said:


> Like what? I like the idea of what it says it can do. Lowering estrogen while freeing up test. I mean I know an AI can help with lowering estrogen sides but what would free up test. Or is that really not worth doing?


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## Monster Gear

I use it in the 50-75mm cycle, this is a very good product, a strong adrogen that enhances the effects of steroids


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