# Thoughts on what I should add to my first 350-400mg test cycle



## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 28, 2018)

Hi everyone, my stats are:
25 years old
6'4 tall
85 kg/187lbs
12% bf

Lifting 5 years, tried winstrol in the past, did 10 week 100mg anavar only cycle when I was 23, no pct, didn't get shut down but was a bit supressed in the final 2 weeks but recovered fine 1 week later.

Anavar
Plus:
- Muscles looked harder
- Became stronger and kept all strength despite being on a deficit
- allowed me to get very lean, veins everywhere
- body reacted well to it, didn't get shutdown, libido high, mood and sleep good

Negative
- Price at the time since I was poor
- harder look wore off as soon as cycle ended
- didn't get any crazy pump


Anyway, researched this a lot and have decided I want to do a 12 week test e cycle, haven't decided between 350 or 400mg, I think 500mg is overrated and not looking to gain  bunch of water.

Since I've done anavar before I was thinking maybe doing 12 weeks test e with 100mg anavar, anavar starts from week 4 and lasts for 8 weeks. I was also looking at primo. Maybe 300mg primo with the test for 12 weeks.

I know why test only is recommend for a first but I've done other stuff before and know how I react. Looking to add something with the least sides to go with test, price isn't an issue now with my new job.

Plan on injecting twice a week, Mon/Thurs, have adex going to start .25 twice a week, also have hcg, start pct 2 weeks after last pin for 4 weeks, clomid and nolva. Also have aromasin at hand.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any posts.


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## Gadawg (Nov 28, 2018)

Get some coaching on eating first.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 28, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Get some coaching on eating first.



Agreed, you're 25, been lifting for 5 years, are in your prime and at 6'4 you're only sitting at 187lbs?! That is rail thin, surprised ur not not at 2% bf at that height/weight. Don't bother with the drugs if you can't eat and train hard enough to take advantage of them. Don't mean to sound harsh but tellin ya how it is dude. Also what is your goal for this cycle, and long term goal?


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## Jada (Nov 28, 2018)

Agree with upstairs,  ur too skinny , u need to eat Son. Get that diet in check before u even decide to cycle.. alot of info on this board.. read up


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## Merlin (Nov 28, 2018)

Food. When I was 185 at 6'2" people kept asking me if i was sick. Can't imagine what  I would've looked like if i was taller.


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## bigdog (Nov 28, 2018)

im just a bit taller and im almost 100lbs heavier. at your age if your diet was on point and your training as well you could add some size naturally and save money for gear when you get old like me:32 (20):


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## snake (Nov 28, 2018)

A few things:
For your height and weight, you're a little skinny for a 25 y.o. with 5 years of training. That brings into question training and or diet. Take a look and rethink a few things there.

If you knew why they say "Test only" for the first cycle you would do that. "First cycle" is the first one done right. You have not done a proper "First cycle" so hit that now with Test at 500mg  split. Trust me, with an AI, you won't hold much water if any. You will really like this and extend it to 15-16 weeks.

Don't apologize for a long post. It had a lot of information which helps us help you.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 28, 2018)

anavar works way better with test 

you wont need more than 40mgs 50 tops imo

How do you know 500 is over rated when you never used it before


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## Straight30weight (Nov 28, 2018)

Have to agree with everyone else. Save the drugs for later and use your natural levels while you still have them. Gotta eat bigger to be bigger and even more so on cycle. I’d work on diet for sure, get your training in order, cycle later on in life.


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## motown1002 (Nov 28, 2018)

All these guys are right on.  When you hear the word diet, its not a restriction of food.  Its getting the right food in the right amounts.  AAS will do you no good without the proper amount of food and training.  Last thing you want to do is spend your money on drugs and notice 12 weeks later you are up 5 pounds.  If you were eating enough right now, you would weigh quite a bit more than you do.  BF would be higher, but who cares at this point.  Gotta get the food man.  And THIS is your first cycle.  

Test 500mg 2x week as Snake said.  (250mg each)  Blood work also brother!


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## John Ziegler (Nov 28, 2018)

and diet is where i fail miserably everytime 

planning on filling a deep freezer with meat and prepped plates of food for a cycle in january.

or forget it because its a total waste of steroids


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## Gibsonator (Nov 28, 2018)

Zeigler said:


> and diet is where i fail miserably everytime
> 
> planning on filling a deep freezer with meat and prepped plates of food for a cycle in january.
> 
> or forget it because its a total waste of steroids



ever thought of using one of them meal prep services dude?


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## gymrat827 (Nov 28, 2018)

Anabolic Tuna said:


> Anyway, researched this a lot and have decided I want to do a 12 week test e cycle, haven't decided between 350 or 400mg, I think 500mg is overrated and not looking to gain  bunch of water.



brother, you dont have a clue

I bet you got dbol instead of var too


Welcome to the site, for those who want to learn, we teach the craft.  

But all things aside, you need 1000-1500 extra clean cals a day.  After you put on 15lbs nattty, ask more ?'s.  We can direct you to a diet coach if you'd like.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 28, 2018)

Gibsonator said:


> ever thought of using one of them meal prep services dude?



the gf is a catering chef and was thinking about having her do something like that for me 

prolly try bartering some kind of deal shes wanting new rims & tires


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 28, 2018)

Gadawg said:


> Get some coaching on eating first.





Gibsonator said:


> Agreed, you're 25, been lifting for 5 years, are in your prime and at 6'4 you're only sitting at 187lbs?! That is rail thin, surprised ur not not at 2% bf at that height/weight. Don't bother with the drugs if you can't eat and train hard enough to take advantage of them. Don't mean to sound harsh but tellin ya how it is dude. Also what is your goal for this cycle, and long term goal?





Merlin said:


> Food. When I was 185 at 6'2" people kept asking me if i was sick. Can't imagine what  I would've looked like if i was taller.





bigdog said:


> im just a bit taller and im almost 100lbs heavier. at your age if your diet was on point and your training as well you could add some size naturally and save money for gear when you get old like me:32 (20):



Lol I knew this was coming and you guys are 100% right, I do need to eat more and I should and want to be heavier that's why I want to use test e to bulk but to be fair, I look bigger than I actually weigh, stats are of a very skinny guy but my shoulders are wide and my arms are 17.2 inches cold and flexed and I don't think my bf is 12% maybe closer to 10% as I hardly have fat and My arms are just skin and muscle. I will post a picture



snake said:


> A few things:
> For your height and weight, you're a little skinny for a 25 y.o. with 5 years of training. That brings into question training and or diet. Take a look and rethink a few things there.
> 
> If you knew why they say "Test only" for the first cycle you would do that. "First cycle" is the first one done right. You have not done a proper "First cycle" so hit that now with Test at 500mg  split. Trust me, with an AI, you won't hold much water if any. You will really like this and extend it to 15-16 weeks.
> ...



I just read that more test = more sides/water weight. Do you think I can build leanish muscle if I control estrogen with an AI and eat very clean, couple hundred kcals above maintenance?



Zeigler said:


> anavar works way better with test
> 
> you wont need more than 40mgs 50 tops imo
> 
> How do you know 500 is over rated when you never used it before



I just did 100mg because people told me under that would be a waste, my anavar is ugl, would 50mg be good? 100mg had no negative effects on me but doing 50 would be nice because it would be cheaper. As for 500 being overrated, Maybe that wasn't the right word, I've just been reading logs from people on other steroid forums saying that 500 was too much on a first cycle, some saying they gained too much water/moon face, more test = more AI, plus more acne because AI stops test converting in estrogen but doesn't stop it converting into dht. I would rather do less test with a bit less gains if it means less sides but if 500 is cool then I can do 500.


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 28, 2018)

I could gain more weight/size naturally in the next couple of years but I want to get there a bit faster honestly and I do have plans in using my body to make money in the future
	

		
			
		

		
	




Plus I want to bulk from a leanish base

As for training, I do PPL x2 with Sunday off, I started as an almost anorexic 20 year old, like 155lbs


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## Jin (Nov 28, 2018)

Anabolic Tuna said:


> I do have plans in using my body to make money in the future



Steroids are the gateway. 

Now we all do gay for pay. 

You’ll fit in. 

We are always looking for twinks.


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## gymrat827 (Nov 29, 2018)

Post up what you eat in a day.  

Doesnt have to be spot on, just an example.  

Then we will critique it.


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## gymrat827 (Nov 29, 2018)

when i was your age, i got on cycle as quickly as i could.  

I could of accomplished what i did with just food and 1/4 less drinking.


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## Gadawg (Nov 29, 2018)

You need a bigger appetite and somebody to teach you to train hard. Real hard.  There arent many people who look back and regret doing it the hard way.  You cant say that for the other side.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 29, 2018)

op 

go 400mg test 40mg anavar 

thats a really good cycle 

personally did that last year with great results.


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 29, 2018)

gymrat827 said:


> Post up what you eat in a day.
> 
> Doesnt have to be spot on, just an example.
> 
> Then we will critique it.



5 meals, around 2300 kcals, 180g protein, 100g fat and the rest carbs

I haven't been trying to lose/gain weight in the last year, I've just maintained because I liked staying lean but my goals have changed and want to get bigger that's why I made this thread.


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 29, 2018)

Zeigler said:


> op
> 
> go 400mg test 40mg anavar
> 
> ...



I quoted your other post, is there a huge difference in results between anavar 40 and 100mg? As I've done 100 before and got good results with no negative sides however mine was from an ugl so maybe under dosed?


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## gymrat827 (Nov 30, 2018)

Add another 1000 cals a day no questions asked.  

Really 1350

Bump up 750, then 1000, 1350

Your never going to gain weight at 2300.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 30, 2018)

Anabolic Tuna said:


> I quoted your other post, is there a huge difference in results between anavar 40 and 100mg? As I've done 100 before and got good results with no negative sides however mine was from an ugl so maybe under dosed?



40 is great imo 

you didnt have any test going at 100mgs 

so im thinkin that 40 to 50 mgs with the test 

will yield even better results than the 100 did on its own


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 30, 2018)

gymrat827 said:


> Add another 1000 cals a day no questions asked.
> 
> Really 1350
> 
> ...



That's my maintenance, I don't want to gain weight too quickly, I think gaining 2lbs a week is fine? I will bump it up to 2600 then add 200 everytime weight stalls?

I think if I'm a leanish 210lbs after 12 weeks then I will be happy



Zeigler said:


> 40 is great imo
> 
> you didnt have any test going at 100mgs
> 
> ...



I meant 40 vs 100, so test plus 40 vs test plus 100

I will start with 40, it would be easier on the liver too than 100


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## BRICKS (Nov 30, 2018)

Bro, you're 6"4" 187 lbs.  If you want to hit 210 you should be able to do that standing on your head without ANY AAS.  Seriously, not trying to be a dick, but my wife bodybuilds and she's 5' 128 lbs and 2300 cals is about where she's at.  Gymrat827 is right, as is everybody else who sais you need to eat. Eat, not nibble.

Doing the math from what you posted for cals, protein, and carbs, you're getting 600 cals from carbs, or 133 grams.  Are you shitting me? That's one meal for me.  Upping your cals to 2600 will be like taking a piss off the front of an aircraft carrier going 20 knots into a typhoon.  

Eat, train hard, eat, sleep, eat and eat some more.  At your age and size if it isn't nailed to floor it should be fair game.


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## gymrat827 (Nov 30, 2018)

BRICKS said:


> Bro, you're 6"4" 187 lbs.  If you want to hit 210 you should be able to do that standing on your head without ANY AAS.  Seriously, not trying to be a dick, but my wife bodybuilds and she's 5' 128 lbs and 2300 cals is about where she's at.  Gymrat827 is right, as is everybody else who sais you need to eat. Eat, not nibble.




This should show you what you really need.  

Bricks wife has a solid build.  But think of how much taller you are & what she currently eats.  You need to be eating 3800 cals, even 4200 if you want to constantly growing.  

You can run 1000mg of tes, without those cals jack shit will happen.  

Like him, dont want to be a asshole......But we get this exact issue every other month.  Double you cal intake and slowly taper up to it.  Add 750 more cals each week.  

Get up during the night to eat, add liquid egg whites and some carbs to your shakes, even heavy whipping cream.

Look as some guys logs who are big as fuk here, see what they are doing.  2300 cals for 65/75% of this place would be considered a diet. 

Eat eat eat and report back in 20 days


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## automatondan (Nov 30, 2018)

Anabolic Tuna said:


> I could gain more weight/size naturally in the next couple of years but I want to get there a bit faster honestly and I do have plans in using my body to make money in the future
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you understand how steroids work dude? They won't do much except give you sides and shut you down if you don't know how to eat. This is the 100% truth. Steroids are not magic. Food is. Period. If you take these drugs you won't get much gains and what little you gain will go away after, because you need to feed it to grow it, and you need to feed it to keep it. Period. I promise I am telling you the truth. 100% truth.


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## automatondan (Nov 30, 2018)

Anabolic Tuna said:


> That's my maintenance, I don't want to gain weight too quickly, I think gaining 2lbs a week is fine? I will bump it up to 2600 then add 200 everytime weight stalls?
> 
> I think if I'm a leanish 210lbs after 12 weeks then I will be happy
> 
> ...



Dude, I almost guarantee you could gain 2 lbs a week without AAS at your weight/height. Just saying.


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## Gibsonator (Nov 30, 2018)

and just for reference, the majority of us taller guys sit between 240 and 280lbs, still lean. get to work


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## John Ziegler (Nov 30, 2018)

the op has his heart set on a cycle 

do without is inapplicable at this point 

like telling guys that run out of steroids before the cycle is over 

that they should have got it all before they started 

No fukkin doy !


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## RustyShackelford (Nov 30, 2018)

No doubt you can put on some weight by running a cycle. But like all the other advice you are getting, if you eat like a 185lb man you will be 185 lbs after the gains are gone from your cycle. 
I learned this the hard way. Twice. Turns out I wasn’t as smart as I thought I was. 
Faster isn’t always better. 
Good luck bro.


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 30, 2018)

automatondan said:


> Dude, I almost guarantee you could gain 2 lbs a week without AAS at your weight/height. Just saying.



I don't think I can build say 9-15lbs of muscle in 12 weeks, I thought it was 1-2 a month. I understand what you guys are saying but my body grows on low kcals, I will eat more and follow the scale, let's say you need 3000kcals but someone else at your height may need 3500.


Just a note, I mentioned i am currently eating 2300, if I start my cycle then I will bump up to 2600 and keep bumping it up, if at the end I need 3800 to maintain my new weight then that's what I will do.


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 30, 2018)

I'm still open to not doing the cycle and just do it naturally but I'm more concerned about building muscle with the least amount of fat possible than just gain weight to see the scale go up with extra fat and water. I also know this is going to take years.


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## gymrat827 (Nov 30, 2018)

do not start the cycle til you are at 3800 cals ED.  Your just wasting gear otherwise


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## Anabolic Tuna (Nov 30, 2018)

Forget my 2nd to last post, I still want to do this cycle and I know I will get good results but I should be eating way more.

Eating natural and eating on a cycle are completely different I get you guys now, test increases everything (metabolism etc).

2600 is too low, I think I will start with 3300 so 1000 more than now for a few weeks and bump it up each time by 200 if the scale stops moving

Weeks 1-12 test 200mg Mon/Thurs (400 total)
Weeks 4-12 anavar
AI, start with .25 on pin days

Pct 2 weeks after last pin
Clomid and nolva for 4 weeks

When should I introduce hcg, from week 1 or before pct? Is it necessary for 400mg Test?


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## deejeff442 (Nov 30, 2018)

I am 5 foot 9 and 190 now just about to start my winter cycle... Lol I will eat at least 1500 calories for breakfast.
Seriously at your age if you train hard really dont need to worry about fat. So you want lean muscle but a food deficit meaning your muscles will always be starving defeating the pourpose of killing it in the gym.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 30, 2018)

youve already done some steroids so waiting around for that perfect moment 

(like all the juiced up gorilla monsters are suggesting) 

ship has sailed.

the proposal in post 37 looks good 

theres a lot to live up to on that cycle dont underestimate the potential

focus on getting that diet right for a few weeks first to get prepped

then go for it


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## BRICKS (Nov 30, 2018)

Man please do some basic research, not into AAS, into diet.  3500 cals is the excess cals needed to gain a pound of weight.  WEIGHT.  -3500 cals to lose a pound. So, if you or I, or Zeigler or POB or Snake or take your pick out of the 7.53 billion people on the planet (as of 2017) have a surplus of 3500 cals we will gain a pound.  Doesn't fkn matter who, doesn't matter on a cycle or not.  It's human physiology and biochemistry.  

I'm sensing that you want to put on this muscle and stay at a super lean BF and that's your issue.  Brother, forget about it.  If you are that afraid to put on a little bodyfat, stick to the treadmill and salad.  It is far more difficult to gain muscle than lose fat.


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## automatondan (Dec 1, 2018)

gymrat827 said:


> do not start the cycle til you are at 3800 cals ED.  Your just wasting gear otherwise



I agree with gymrat. Spend a month or two getting your diet dialed in 100% at the set bulk cals. Make sure you have it dialed in and can stick to it for the whole cycle. It will be a night and day difference in how your cycle goes (as in what gains you make).


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## Gadawg (Dec 1, 2018)

I promise you will look back on this and realize how easy these gains were if you do it with the right diet without any AAS.  Id kill to be able to put on size from that platform.  Lots of us have to shovel down 4000-5000 cals a day just to maintain. But Im sure you will go the gear route anyway.....


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