# Old, injured and lifting heavy?



## flenser (Feb 12, 2021)

I had my second shoulder surgery back in 2019, multiple full thickness tears. After 6 months of PT and a couple more months of recovery work on my own I started lifting again, just a lot lighter than before. It always felt a little off, though. I was always feeling and hearing little pops and grinds no mater how much stretching I did. Recently I decided to take a couple of months off lifting. The only exercise I got was walking and some light stretching.


So I've been back lifting every day for almost a month, and my shoulder feels really good. I can bench again, and overhead press feels pretty comfortable just weak. Still a little stiff setting up low back squat, but I'm able to get in position with some stretching. Now I'm starting to want to lift heavy again. Benching yesterday on a whim I put 315 on the bar, and it went right up with no pain. Felt like I could add another 40 lbs, but chickened out. 



I know this is a dumb question before I ask, but at 58 am I being a complete idiot lifting heavy again? I can't think of a single reason I should do it, except that I want to. How likely am I to re-injure that shoulder?


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## DF (Feb 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> I had my second shoulder surgery back in 2019, multiple full thickness tears. After 6 months of PT and a couple more months of recovery work on my own I started lifting again, just a lot lighter than before. It always felt a little off, though. I was always feeling and hearing little pops and grinds no mater how much stretching I did. Recently I decided to take a couple of months off lifting. The only exercise I got was walking and some light stretching.
> 
> 
> So I've been back lifting every day for almost a month, and my shoulder feels really good. I can bench again, and overhead press feels pretty comfortable just weak. Still a little stiff setting up low back squat, but I'm able to get in position with some stretching. Now I'm starting to want to lift heavy again. Benching yesterday on a whim I put 315 on the bar, and it went right up with no pain. Felt like I could add another 40 lbs, but chickened out.
> ...



Oh Boy! Been in your shoes many times.  Let me say this the shoulder will feel good until it doesn't.  There is a very good chance that you will reinjure the shoulder if you choose to go heavy.  My advice keep yourself in check & stay away from the heavy stuff.


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## snake (Feb 12, 2021)

DF said:


> Oh Boy! Been in your shoes many times.  Let me say this the shoulder will feel good until it doesn't.  There is a very good chance that you will reinjure the shoulder if you choose to go heavy.  My advice keep yourself in check & stay away from the heavy stuff.


Sound advice above. 

You need to figure out what you want out of your training. If you plan on competing, you may need to take a higher calculated risk. If you're not competing, you can work around many limitations, still be strong, still look big, still be fit. If this is a pride issue, then it would not be a smart move.

If you had a serious tear or complete tear and did some PT, my guess is you're healed as far as you're going to heal, that will not put you back to your pre-injury strength. I'm also making the assumption that you were training at a high level prior to the injury.


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## flenser (Feb 12, 2021)

Good advice from you both, thanks. I'm not even sure why I posted now. Maybe I was hoping for bad advice : )

I don't plan on competing, and it's definitely not an ego thing. I just like the way it feels to lift heavy and make progress. The compulsion is so strong to add weight I may have to sell my extra plates to make it impossible.


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## dragon1952 (Feb 12, 2021)

I have shoulder issues and for the past year I have spent 15 minutes doing rotator cuff/shoulder band exercises before every workout. High reps of up to 30. That will help keep everything that helps stabilize the shoulder strong.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 13, 2021)

Or focus on heavy pulls and squats while steering clear of heavy presses.


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## nicocujo (Apr 14, 2021)

315 is a nice bench. Maybe try max for 5 reps instead of singles. And like BrotherIron said, focus on pulls and squats.


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## flenser (Apr 20, 2021)

I actually dropped back to 225 3X3 3 time a week, which barely felt like I was working out. On the last set of the week I would do 8, and if it felt easy I would add 10 pounds the next week. I made it to 285 and tore my other shoulder. I didn't really know it happened until a couple of hours later. It feels like a pretty minor tear, but it isn't healing very fast. My plan is to avoid doctors and focus on self rehab. After previous injuries I have the rehab committed to memory anyway. I can still squat and dead lift, though not so much rows or pull ups.


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## snake (Apr 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> I actually dropped back to 225 3X3 3 time a week, which barely felt like I was working out. On the last set of the week I would do 8, and if it felt easy I would add 10 pounds the next week. I made it to 285 and tore my other shoulder. I didn't really know it happened until a couple of hours later. It feels like a pretty minor tear, but it isn't healing very fast. My plan is to avoid doctors and focus on self rehab. After previous injuries I have the rehab committed to memory anyway. I can still squat and dead lift, though not so much rows or pull ups.



Wait, this just happened?


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Apr 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> I actually dropped back to 225 3X3 3 time a week, which barely felt like I was working out. On the last set of the week I would do 8, and if it felt easy I would add 10 pounds the next week. I made it to 285 and tore my other shoulder. I didn't really know it happened until a couple of hours later. It feels like a pretty minor tear, but it isn't healing very fast. My plan is to avoid doctors and focus on self rehab. After previous injuries I have the rehab committed to memory anyway. I can still squat and dead lift, though not so much rows or pull ups.


It might be worse than it appears, Ive had experience somewhat like that. My mindset is "Either fix it now or risk having a lingering injury."


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## BrotherIron (Apr 20, 2021)

snake said:


> Wait, this just happened?



Yeah, did the poster just tear his other shoulder?  I was going to also suggest if he want to lifts heavier, he should look into chains. As ROM decreases, he is in a stronger position and the weight become heavier (safer way to lift heavy and it can be a lot of fun too).


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## Gabriel (Apr 20, 2021)

I'm 55 and have like most some old injuries that have healed as much as they are going too..knowing that,I watch what exercises cause pain and discomfort and ones that don't..and I choose to stay away from what I Know will re-injure me.. Choices Brother


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## nicocujo (Apr 20, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> I'm 55 and have like most some old injuries that have healed as much as they are going too..knowing that,I watch what exercises cause pain and discomfort and ones that don't..and I choose to stay away from what I Know will re-injure me.. Choices Brother




That's called training smart. It's amazing how much we change our training as we get older.


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## flenser (Apr 20, 2021)

snake said:


> Wait, this just happened?



A little over 3 weeks ago. I dunno what happened. I thought I was being over cautious, actually. 285 isn't that heavy for me. 8 reps was pushing it, I guess, but it felt easy enough at the time.


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## flenser (Apr 20, 2021)

JackDMegalomaniac said:


> It might be worse than it appears, Ive had experience somewhat like that. My mindset is "Either fix it now or risk having a lingering injury."



I have a really busy work schedule this summer. The short time I have off I have to use for vacation, or my wife will divorce me! If it's not better by fall, I'll see the doc then.


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## sfw509 (Apr 21, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> I'm 55 and have like most some old injuries that have healed as much as they are going too..knowing that,I watch what exercises cause pain and discomfort and ones that don't..and I choose to stay away from what I Know will re-injure me.. Choices Brother





nicocujo said:


> That's called training smart. It's amazing how much we change our training as we get older.



I'm with these guys. I understand time is an issue for you but I would get checked out asap. If your going to continue to lift do it with caution. No reason to risk a major injury if you already think you have a tear. I say this admittedly having become more conservative with my health. 

Ultimately you know your body best. I just hate seeing some get injured if it can be prevented.


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## Oldbastard (Apr 21, 2021)

I’m 55 lifting for 45 years.I used too lift really heavy now I guess seems heavy too layperson not you bbs. Like 300 pound press reps I consider heavy , but I don’t do like low reps. Many recent studies show old school heavy created larger fibers . In past 10 years they research hyperplasia where fibers split creating growth . This more about duration of contraction long slow reps or extending set when you can’t finish strict rep you do few partials which brings deeper fibers to split grow . I just continue too train titanium spine hips neck from 45 years lifting 16 hours day Bujutsu and physical work I won’t risk injury


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## Gabriel (Apr 21, 2021)

I knew OldB would fit right in..
How and an over 40 or senior's sud forum??


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## 1bigun11 (Apr 21, 2021)

Pretty much sums it up for me, lol


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## flenser (Apr 24, 2021)

It must not be too bad. Mixed 24 80lb bags of Quikrete yesterday without hurting the shoulder. Of course, I can't walk today, but at least the shoulder is getting better.


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## Gabriel (Apr 24, 2021)

Now that's findings the good..often we focus on the negative..I wasn't able to do that max...or I'm 5lbs overweight..Not the fact your A1c is 5..or I am able to work and provide in this time of a challenging world..or I'm happy my family is healthy..

I find myself sometimes just inches from loosing it and then I see a picture of my Grand Daughter..
All is restored..

The single biggest element in training in any arena.."Stay Injury FREE"


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## GSgator (Apr 25, 2021)

We are our own worse enemy’s. Chances are you will just tear it again and make it worse. After my second shoulder surgery and I was all healed up . I found myself back in that same situation wanting to lift heavy and to be honest I just couldn’t settle in. With a family to feed and 15 years left to retire I changed my focus.


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## GSgator (Apr 26, 2021)

..,,,.,,,...,


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## flenser (May 19, 2021)

So after six weeks or so my shoulder isn't really any better. I should have taken the "see the doc now" advice, but sometimes life takes precedence over health. I still won't be able to have it repaired before the fall. I've become adept at working around it, like close grip benching 95lbs  for sets of 35, etc., but anything that loads or stretches the front RC  at all is impossible. I decided to work on improving overall fitness as well as increasing my range of motion. Going to try to get below 10% BF for the first time in my life, just to be doing something different. 

Also switched my workout to use high reps on every exercise as I've read here that others my age have done. I thought routinely squatting 20 reps would destroy what's left of my knees, but they actually feel better than before. They still sound like they're full of potato chips, though. Haven't gotten high rep dead lifts figured out yet, but I'm getting there.


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## ftf (May 19, 2021)

I'm right there with you on the shoulder problem. Looks like a lot of us are. What I don't understand is what people are saying to the doctor to get treatment. I've told various doctors about my shoulder pain and they just kinda shrug and suggest I stretch. No diagnostics at all. 

If you do go to the doc let us know how it goes down.


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## transcend2007 (May 19, 2021)

Man I'm and having similar thoughts to others over our primes ... the only good thing about Covid and last year and being kept out of the gym is that old nagging injuries h7ave healed ... as I've been getting back into the routine I've been constructing / designing my new workout which was going to include lower rep higher weight weeks along with high rep lighter weeks ... I love the idea and feeling of lifting heavy (for me) and this thread has me rethinking that strategy ... the goal as Snake pointed out is the look big but if not competing don't be retarded ( sorry Snake I took some creative license at the end) but I believe the meaning is the same ... the idea is to get fit look great while staying healthy ... point taken ...


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## flenser (May 19, 2021)

ftf said:


> I'm right there with you on the shoulder problem. Looks like a lot of us are. What I don't understand is what people are saying to the doctor to get treatment. I've told various doctors about my shoulder pain and they just kinda shrug and suggest I stretch. No diagnostics at all.
> 
> If you do go to the doc let us know how it goes down.



I always go straight to an ortho surgeon, and skip the family doc. If your insurance doesn't allow that, you should be able to ask for a referral. If the doc won't give you one, get another doc. Also, do some research on the surgeon in your area you want, and make sure that's the one your doc sends you to. There are a ton of senior citizen rehab mills out there that know nothing about lifting.


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## flenser (May 19, 2021)

transcend2007 said:


> Man I'm and have similar thoughts to others over our primes ... the only good thing about Covid and last year and being kept out of the gym is that old nagging injuries have healed ... as I've been getting back into the routine I've been constructing / designing my new workout which was going to include lower rep higher weight weeks along with high rep lighter weeks ... I love the idea and feeling of lifting heavy (for me) and this thread has me rethinking that strategy ... the goal as Snake pointed out is the look big but if not competing don't be retarded ( sorry Snake I took some creative license at the end) but I believe the meaning is the same ... the idea is to get fit look great while staying healthy ... point taken ...



You could have said, "don't be retarded like flenser", LOL.  That's what I was thinking when I read it.


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## transcend2007 (May 19, 2021)

flenser said:


> You could have said, "don't be retarded like flenser", LOL.  That's what I was thinking when I read it.



You know what they say ... if the shoe fits - wear it" ... but the larger point is your post got me, and no doubts others, thinking about what are our true goals ... if its not about ego and we're not trying to impress other dudes (or chicks in Gibs / sorry I forgot other dude name who also has young women throwing themselves at them at the gym) ... it's about sustained improvement and lifelong fitness - yes while adding lean muscle and dropping fat .. but its not about benching 350 pounds or overhead pressing huge numbers .. this thread was a good reminder to think longer term ....especially if your NO spring chicken like me.


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## BrotherIron (May 19, 2021)

transcend2007 said:


> You know what they say ... if the shoe fits - wear it" ... but the larger point is your post got me, and no doubts others, thinking about what are our true goals ... if its not about ego and we're not trying to impress other dudes (or chicks in Gibs / sorry I forgot other dude name who also has young women throwing themselves at them at the gym) ... it's about sustained improvement and lifelong fitness - yes while adding lean muscle and dropping fat .. but its not about benching 350 pounds or overhead pressing huge numbers .. this thread was a good reminder to think longer term ....especially if your NO spring chicken like me.



That's a hard idea to swallow... coming to terms that you must change. For those of us who competed for years and sustained injury after injury in our pursuit to lift numbers others would look up to, to gain respect from, to get our names in books/ charts/ records, etc.  It's damn difficult to change gears and say, I'm going to lift for health.  Many can't do that and wind up crippling themselves because they can't let go.

I even find it difficult to let go. Still busting my ass trying to get back to numbers I deem worthy.  For a time, I said if my best days ever become behind me... I'll hang it up.  I've come to realize that's not me and even though I may not lift what I did, I'll find new ways to push myself.


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## Dadbod103 (May 19, 2021)

Did you say you are benching 3x a week low 3 rep sets at 58 with a bad shoulder??

I mean for **** sake increase the reps and reduce the frequency of training you are working out before you are fully recovered hence injury with weight that you know should be light for you


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## flenser (May 19, 2021)

Dadbod103 said:


> Did you say you are benching 3x a week low 3 rep sets at 58 with a bad shoulder??
> 
> I mean for **** sake increase the reps and reduce the frequency of training you are working out before you are fully recovered hence injury with weight that you know should be light for you



That was fully recovered. It was the other shoulder I tore. It was still stupid, I admit, but I was at least not doing it with an existing injury.


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## flenser (Oct 12, 2021)

So, it's been 5 months, and my RC issue has improved considerably.  If I'm careful I can bench 275 without pain, though there is still a little discomfort. Overhead press isn't so good. A set of 5 at 95 makes it sore, and a set of 10 causes swelling. 

I know this is a dumb question, but what are the odds I can rehab the thing enough for at least a 200 press and 315 bench without surgery? I mean surgery will take a year to recover at my age, and I don't have that many years of heavy lifting left.


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## Trendkill (Oct 12, 2021)

You can absolutely rehab it.  It just takes patience.  You have to find lifts that you can perform with minimal to no pain and work around the injury.  I would build volume before going after absolute strength.  I would do some type of rotator cuff rehab work every day.  Various internal/external rotations with the elbow at 90 degrees in various planes.


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## Oldbastard (Oct 12, 2021)

Unless your competing you can also consider alternatives. My chest basically is my best strongest body part. However, I have given up flat benching since 1984 . My injury has never returned plus I like wide squared look not a titty chest . So I do heavy inclines no discomfort, fllyes and dips , cables machines . No flat benches . So when the idiots at work who know nothing ask ," how much you bench ?" , I reply I don't not ever .


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## GymTeddy (Oct 12, 2021)

A suggestion, take it slow with the weight. Let the ligaments get warmed up to lifting. And I also have become a firm believer in getting massages. I have shoulder issues where the interior front gets so tight I actually hunch in. Getting in it deep to work, which yes it does hurt, makes a world of difference in my lifts.


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## flenser (Oct 12, 2021)

Oldbastard said:


> Unless your competing you can also consider alternatives. My chest basically is my best strongest body part. However, I have given up flat benching since 1984 . My injury has never returned plus I like wide squared look not a titty chest . So I do heavy inclines no discomfort, fllyes and dips , cables machines . No flat benches . So when the idiots at work who know nothing ask ," how much you bench ?" , I reply I don't not ever .


I have no intentions of competing. I'm able to do incline bench with no pain at all, even near max lifts. I always found them awkward, probably because I don't do them enough! I like the idea of just replacing flat bench, and then I won't have to remember how much more I used to lift!

I stretch both shoulders ED, but the left still has some impingement with external rotation above the head. That one had a full thickness tear repaired, and the PT used to work incessantly on external rotation, sometimes with her heal pressed into the notch between my neck and shoulder.


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## Yano (Oct 12, 2021)

If you are dead set on still flat benching , you could try putting some good heavy bands up over your rack and slide the bar through them then adjust the height and tie em off ya know. They stretch as you rep and would lighten up the load as you got your push on and take some of the strain off it maybe start out with just one wheel on each side and go up from there by a nickel each week or two ? Not sure whats causing your impingement so thats about all I got for a possible assist at this point. Good Luck !


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## flenser (Oct 12, 2021)

Yano said:


> If you are dead set on still flat benching , you could try putting some good heavy bands up over your rack and slide the bar through them then adjust the height and tie em off ya know. They stretch as you rep and would lighten up the load as you got your push on and take some of the strain off it maybe start out with just one wheel on each side and go up from there by a nickel each week or two ? Not sure whats causing your impingement so thats about all I got for a possible assist at this point. Good Luck !


I think I'm already sold on the idea of dropping flat bench, at for a few months. It has been involved in 3 shoulder and 1 pec injury over the years. You would think I would have learned my lesson before now, lol.


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## OldeBull1 (Oct 13, 2021)

I'm a little late to the conversation but wanted to share something relative I learned, complements of John Meadows and Dave Tate.
Put your heavy lifts later in the workout. For example, do some machine presses before bench presses. Sort of like pre-exhaust, they call it primer sets.
The idea is that you can still bench, squat, etc,  but without decreasing effort,  you decrease the load. It's been working for me.


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## flenser (Oct 19, 2021)

OldeBull1 said:


> I'm a little late to the conversation but wanted to share something relative I learned, complements of John Meadows and Dave Tate.
> Put your heavy lifts later in the workout. For example, do some machine presses before bench presses. Sort of like pre-exhaust, they call it primer sets.
> The idea is that you can still bench, squat, etc,  but without decreasing effort,  you decrease the load. It's been working for me.


I have been thinking about trying that. Switching to inclined press has really helped in that I'm able to go fairly heavy without any discomfort. But I still miss the flat bench as much for triceps as chest. I've added extra sets of DB skull crushers, but it's not the same.  I might try inclined press, dips, cable flys, and then flat bench. No chest machines at my home gym, at least not yet...


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## Oldbastard (Oct 19, 2021)

Yup I dropped flat bench in 1980s so long ago and I don't miss it . If it hurts I don't do it . My shoulders used too be tight and in like 1998 or so my docs suggested surgery for my rotator cuff . However my martial art training led me too Filipino Kali and escrima where the sticks and knives are used in such ways the movements have become like therapeutic for my tight shoulders, no pain no discomfort since like 1996 , yeah I shattered spine had surgery in 1995 , new left hip 2018 , new right hip 2021 but my 55 year old rotator cuffs are more mobile and strong then ever . I still won't do flat anymore but plenty of incline , high rep dips , cables and dumbbells my pecs my best body part . My surgeries were all successful, as I continue too train with no limits . In fact I had my lower spine reconstruction with titanium cages and liquid shavings of my pelvis . Took 2 years too harden but I worked around injured area by utilizing machine technology. Once you hit your old age point , you need too use it or lose it . But I train heavy maybe for the lay person, however I don't do low rep. Many recent studies in US , Germany and Japan, confirmed bodybuilding ideas for the first time ever , where the length of repetition and duration of contraction created more fibers ( hyperplasia) as opposed too old fashioned but still useful heavy training that increase the size of muscle fibers . So we really have more principles too utilize. All the strip sets , pre- exhaust sequence , partial rep all have their places in respective training if done properly. I found I stay lean and injury free with less cardio but extend my sets and volume. At 55 I'm gray , I'm foul mouthed lol but I'm in best shape ever and yes I utilize chemicals, hey I'm old bastard I can't train natty if I want too continue training daily . Just every person needs too find their own way . Not blindly follow public opinions. You are your greatest coach . Absolutely


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## Oldbastard (Oct 19, 2021)

flenser said:


> I have been thinking about trying that. Switching to inclined press has really helped in that I'm able to go fairly heavy without any discomfort. But I still miss the flat bench as much for triceps as chest. I've added extra sets of DB skull crushers, but it's not the same.  I might try inclined press, dips, cable flys, and then flat bench. No chest machines at my home gym, at least not yet...


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## Oldbastard (Oct 19, 2021)

flenser said:


> I have been thinking about trying that. Switching to inclined press has really helped in that I'm able to go fairly heavy without any discomfort. But I still miss the flat bench as much for triceps as chest. I've added extra sets of DB skull crushers, but it's not the same.  I might try inclined press, dips, cable flys, and then flat bench. No chest machines at my home gym, at least not yet...



I tell you I have too do less triceps or they grow like weeds and like I said no benching for past 30 years. ! Dips will pack on mass and pump your triceps maybe more then benching then again we all have parts that respond and those that don't , me ? Triceps and pecs grow with anything I'm always trying too slow down let rest of my body catch up . 40 plus years of hard training I NEVER get caught up in any one specific exercise. Always rotating methods and movements. The body thrives on homeostasis, you only can stimulate change through constantly changing approach.


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