# Burn 2x more fat



## snake (Oct 18, 2019)

God damn if the wife doesn't have CNN's Robin Meade on in the morning and I hear this shit first thing out of bed. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/18/health/exercise-breakfast-fat-burn-wellness/index.html

For all you ADHD members, you could stop after this and know it's flawed.
"That's because exercising with no fuel forces the body to turn to stored carbs, and when those are quickly gone, to fat cells."


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## Spongy (Oct 18, 2019)

I think the other thing worth noting is all participants were obese.  People who are obese tend to burn and store differently.


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## snake (Oct 18, 2019)

Spongy said:


> I think the other thing worth noting is all participants were obese.  People who are obese tend to burn and store differently.



Hey Spongy, I think you know a little about nutrition; how much glycogen is stored in the liver and muscles in terms of calories that you need to burn through before you tap a single fat cell?


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## Trump (Oct 18, 2019)

1800 to 2000 is Google’s best guess


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## Straight30weight (Oct 18, 2019)

snake said:


> exercising with no fuel


This says it all right here.


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## snake (Oct 18, 2019)

Trump said:


> 1800 to 2000 is Google’s best guess



Thanks Mr. President but a good lawyer doesn't ask a question that he doesn't already know the answer too. lol It was a lead-in to how da fuuk can you tap into your fats until you burn off that 2k reserve? I'd have to be on a stationary bike for 4 hr until that happened.


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## snake (Oct 18, 2019)

Straight30weight said:


> This says it all right here.



Isn't that how all this Keto diet shit started? :32 (18):


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## Trump (Oct 18, 2019)

Smart ass :32 (20):


snake said:


> Thanks Mr. President but a good lawyer doesn't ask a question that he doesn't already know the answer too. lol It was a lead-in to how da fuuk can you tap into your fats until you burn off that 2k reserve? I'd have to be on a stationary bike for 4 hr until that happened.


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## bigdog (Oct 18, 2019)

I lost a little weight in my days but I never had good results doing fasted cardio. I tried it. It sucked. I found simply cutting carbs throughout the day and cutting them out completely buy a certain time was my money spot. I started cutting them by 4pm, then 3pm and so on..  no matter what little things you do that help, simply eating healthy and cutting all the crap foods and soda is and will remain the key!


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## Gibsonator (Oct 18, 2019)

bigdog said:


> I lost a little weight in my days but I never had good results doing fasted cardio. I tried it. It sucked. I found simply cutting carbs throughout the day and cutting them out completely buy a certain time was my money spot. I started cutting them by 4pm, then 3pm and so on..  no matter what little things you do that help, simply eating healthy and cutting all the crap foods and soda is and will remain the key!



nowhere did you mention cutting out pop tarts, hmmm....


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## snake (Oct 19, 2019)

Gibsonator said:


> nowhere did you mention cutting out pop tarts, hmmm....



The man still needs to live.


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## automatondan (Oct 19, 2019)

snake said:


> Thanks Mr. President but a good lawyer doesn't ask a question that he doesn't already know the answer too. lol It was a lead-in to how da fuuk can you tap into your fats until you burn off that 2k reserve? I'd have to be on a stationary bike for 4 hr until that happened.



If you are doing keto, it works. The glycogen is already depleted before your workout. But it sucks. And the DOMS suck big donkey dick... Even when on blast. But the science is there (if you are in ketosis).


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## notsoswoleCPA (Oct 19, 2019)

automatondan said:


> If you are doing keto, it works. The glycogen is already depleted before your workout. But it sucks. And the DOMS suck big donkey dick... Even when on blast. But the science is there (if you are in ketosis).



The only downside is Keto doesn't work for everyone.  My doctor put me on it and promptly took me off after 3 months of being constantly monitored by him and following his protocol to the letter.  By the end of it all, I had no energy, headaches all the time, was borderline mental with the mood swings, a tanked thyroid, cortisol through the roof, a strange lipid profile, and the hypoglycemia that I experienced as a child came back.  But hey, I lost ten pounds...  It totally WAS NOT worth it for what I went through.

The crazy thing is the die hard keto dieters tell me that I didn't give it a chance because I was just getting fat adapted at the 12 week mark.  I tell them to eat a d!ck because I'm not putting myself through that ever again.

EDIT:  The absolute worst part of it all was that I grew WEAKER in the gym, despite being on TRT and HCG during the process...


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## snake (Oct 19, 2019)

Keto works for weight loss but so does sawing your arm off. Neither would be very productive for lifting.


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## Straight30weight (Oct 19, 2019)

I’ll never do keto again. I’ve never felt smaller or weaker


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## bigdog (Oct 20, 2019)

Gibsonator said:


> nowhere did you mention cutting out pop tarts, hmmm....



Dont need to cut out everything to lose weight. Still need to live and have something to look forward to. Besides, look at all I accomplished while eating the damn poptarts so why drop em?


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## Viduus (Oct 20, 2019)

snake said:


> Thanks Mr. President but a good lawyer doesn't ask a question that he doesn't already know the answer too. lol It was a lead-in to how da fuuk can you tap into your fats until you burn off that 2k reserve? I'd have to be on a stationary bike for 4 hr until that happened.




I’m going to play devils advocate because I actually believe in this one. (Re my yohimbine posts).

Total stored glycogen doesn’t really matter because it’s muscle dependent. The question really is how much stored glycogen is in the muscle being used as the prime mover. For large muscles my answer has always been about 10-15 minutes of steady state use.

Think running before you start to slip into that long turn fat burning stage. For me it’s around the 15 minute mark. From that point on it’s that slow steady fat fueled feeling.  The same would be true for Leg presses or back movements but we tend to limit our sets long before hitting that point. 

If we dropped the weight to 40-50% of max and trained for endurance we could start to hit that phase faster and burn through the glycogen and hit fatty acids.  

The reality is we don’t train for endurance on non-leg muscles. Rowing machines do a good job of this for legs and back.

I like yohimbine because it feels like it kicks me into that stage a lot faster. Just my 2 cents though!


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## notsoswoleCPA (Oct 20, 2019)

I can do fasted cardio, but I cannot do fasted lifting.  I tried to get into fasted lifting but it was always teh suck.  I gave up after 12 weeks.  Maybe when the time changes, I'll get back into fasted cardio because I tend to wake up earlier when Daylight Savings Time ends.


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## Viduus (Oct 20, 2019)

notsoswoleCPA said:


> I can do fasted cardio, but I cannot do fasted lifting.  I tried to get into fasted lifting but it was always teh suck.  I gave up after 12 weeks.  Maybe when the time changes, I'll get back into fasted cardio because I tend to wake up earlier when Daylight Savings Time ends.



To clarify... I’m a fan of fasted “fat burning” usually with cardio. I think the concept still applies to weight training but I also believe it’s a waste of a good workout.


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## snake (Oct 20, 2019)

Viduus said:


> Think running before you start to slip into that long turn fat burning stage. For me it’s around the 15 minute mark. From that point on it’s that slow steady fat fueled feeling.  The same would be true for Leg presses or back movements but we tend to limit our sets long before hitting that point.



Vid, you being out of shape has nothing to do with this thread. Stay on point!:32 (18):


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## Viduus (Oct 20, 2019)

snake said:


> Vid, you being out of shape has nothing to do with this thread. Stay on point!:32 (18):



Spongy said the studies used obese people. I believe it you and not me that is ruled out by that fact alone!! :32 (19):


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## Texan69 (Oct 23, 2019)

I’ve always been told that cardio after lifting burns more fat based off the same science of fasted cardio... any thoughts on that? 
I mean I always do my cardio after lifting anyway 
as to not wear myself out before my lift as that is priority.


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## PFM (Oct 24, 2019)

snake said:


> Keto works for weight loss but so does sawing your arm off. Neither would be very productive for lifting.



I have been experimenting with cheat meals and KETO meals.  Historically,  I've had success introducing a cheat meal once and sometimes twice a week while cutting.  Pizza, sausage, eggs & toast or a burger & fies shock my digestive system into overdrive.  I am not talking about a carb overload creating a insulin spike,  I am talking a high protein and fat meal with carbs.  Knowing this works for me I have taken in a perfect KETO meal on my cheat days and found the KETO accomplishes the same result without the bloat and immediate weight gain resulting from the cheat meal.

In my experience KETO was never meant to be a diet,  rather a intermittent meal to keep the body guessing.


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## snake (Oct 24, 2019)

Texan69 said:


> I’ve always been told that cardio after lifting burns more fat based off the same science of fasted cardio... any thoughts on that?
> I mean I always do my cardio after lifting anyway
> as to not wear myself out before my lift as that is priority.



Here's where people get lost in the details. A calorie is just a form of measuring energy. It takes energy to move something so weightlifting does burn calories. Let's not forget for a muscular man, he probably needs about 200 cals for his extra muscle tissue to just exist but that's another topic. Just to ballpark some numbers; I would say in a hour workout, you burn about 150 calories, a far cry from running 4 miles in the same hour that would get you about 600 cals burned.

So lets do some math. You workout for an hr. (150 cals) and then run 4 miles (600 cals) that's 750 cals burned, great right?. You still have not depleted the glycogen storage of approximately 2,000 calories that is stored in your muscles and liver. Now I'm not 100% sure on this but I don't think you tap into your fat reserve until most of the glycogen is gone.

I have often observed long distance runners "Hitting the wall". (IMO) This is the point where the body is switching over from the carbs burned to the fats being burned. And when does this happen to marathon runners? At the 20-22 mile mark in their run. Now you'll burn more then a 140 lb Kenyan but you probably won't be able to go half that distance so you'll never see the switch over.

Weight loss is simple; calories in and calories out. I find it's not really as important to tap into your fat reserve using cardio as much as it is to 'Starve" it from being renewed. But hey, I could be wrong!


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## Trump (Oct 24, 2019)

You need to up your game if your only burning 150 cals per workout, I get through that many having a wank. My fitbit said



snake said:


> Here's where people get lost in the details. A calorie is just a form of measuring energy. It takes energy to move something so weightlifting does burn calories. Let's not forget for a muscular man, he probably needs about 200 cals for his extra muscle tissue to just exist but that's another topic. Just to ballpark some numbers; I would say in a hour workout, you burn about 150 calories, a far cry from running 4 miles in the same hour that would get you about 600 cals burned.
> 
> So lets do some math. You workout for an hr. (150 cals) and then run 4 miles (600 cals) that's 750 cals burned, great right?. You still have not depleted the glycogen storage of approximately 2,000 calories that is stored in your muscles and liver. Now I'm not 100% sure on this but I don't think you tap into your fat reserve until most of the glycogen is gone.
> 
> ...


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## silvereyes87 (Nov 1, 2019)

I find the talk about how far into a workout you needa go to deplete glycogen before you hit fat interesting . But for simple person just cal deficit and a exercise program should do the trick. I found that towarda last few months of my cut i was in ketosis often. I wasnt even doing 70% fat, my cals and macros were 1108 cals, 180 protein,  16 carbs, 36 fat.  thats how I got to single digit bf%. Workouts were shit. I was in ketosis because my mouth tasted like metal and my pee smelled like cinnamon toast crunch . But i was on gear and gh, also taking 2 different preworkouts at 1 time b4 every workout and doing 2 hours 20 mins of cardio a day lol wtf.  Sorry what was this topic about? And why tf did i put myself through that?


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## NihilistFighter (Apr 24, 2020)

I could not agree more. For me it was not just about cutting out carbs. It was also about replacing those carbs with proteins and making sure to eat the right foods to keep the hunger at bay.


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## TheSpectre (Oct 20, 2021)

Ketosis is great for short-term weight-loss, not muscle building, IMO. This is based on personal experience.


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## Sityslicker1 (Oct 20, 2021)

snake said:


> Hey Spongy, I think you know a little about nutrition; how much glycogen is stored in the liver and muscles in terms of calories that you need to burn through before you tap a single fat cell?


Average person stores 100g liver glycogen and 300 muscle glycogen.


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## Migmaster (Oct 21, 2021)

snake said:


> Keto works for weight loss but so does sawing your arm off. Neither would be very productive for lifting.


I lost all of 100 Pounds on keto But that was prior to lifting. It would be hard to keep enough energy up to lift on keto


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## snake (Oct 21, 2021)

Migmaster said:


> I lost all of 100 Pounds on keto But that was prior to lifting. It would be hard to keep enough energy up to lift on keto


The lack of a keto diet didn't put on that 100 lbs so instituting it didn't take it off.

My guess is you got serious about losing weight and with some serious determination,  you got the job done.

You're right on its hard to sustain that kind of a diet and train hard. People have done it but man it's hard.


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## Migmaster (Oct 21, 2021)

snake said:


> The lack of a keto diet didn't put on that 100 lbs so instituting it didn't take it off.
> 
> My guess is you got serious about losing weight and with some serious determination,  you got the job done.
> 
> You're right on its hard to sustain that kind of a diet and train hard. People have done it but man it's hard.


100% dedication to drop 100 pounds, took diet and cardio and a lot of it. Ketosis the entire time


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