# Low test, high deca , add tren, and t3



## Anzel (Feb 22, 2016)

So I'm already on low test 250 and deca 600 since december. It quite nice. Very comfortable. Use a little ai here and there. Prams on hand. Bulking. Enjoying.
By April I will have been on it for 16 weeks .
I have a thought
Add tren and t3 and continue till july.
That will be an 8 month run then back to trt..
My bulk started last august. I was shredded and adding calories didn't kill my abs till October. Then I kept eating and Bulking on trt till Dec where i started  this cycle . Bulked till Feb and then cut to maintenence.  
So I will sit at maintenance till April then add on and start to bring the abs back. 

Another thought... less conservative....
Increase my test to 750 also use some prop for quick gains for the first 4 weeks. And also add in tren and t3.  Keep the deca going.

Been blasting for 8 years
Labs look good


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## Anzel (Feb 22, 2016)

Looking for opinion s


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 22, 2016)

You sound like an experienced user that knows whats best for himself.What dose of tren are u gonna use?


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## Anzel (Feb 22, 2016)

Tried it at 50mg eod last year. So I'm gonna do 100mg eod. And run the prop kick start at 100mg ed for 5 weeks


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 23, 2016)

you have ran deca and tren together before?


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## Anzel (Feb 23, 2016)

Yes 
I did test 600, deca 400, and tren 50mg eod


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 23, 2016)

When I dudes running deca and tren it screams "I have unclear goals."  

I like plan a better. Finish out the deca. Run 250 test and 500 tren e for 13 weeKS and recomp.


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## Anzel (Feb 23, 2016)

You can cut or bulk on either one. Test too
 As I said in my op,  been bulking for 6 months and then switched to maintenence.  You should never go from bulk to cut. Maintenance is required . My diet will only change slightly and by adding in cardio and new compounds I intend to cut.
That's my goals. As outlined above  
Current test 250/deca 600 has been rather mild. I feel that upping test to 750 will help foster appreciable growth along with the addition of tren .
I will . agree that stopping the deca may be a better idea, but not keeping test at 250.
After all 600 deca and 350 tren ace is a good amount of 19nor to run
Besides the deca is a gift that keeps on giving after discontinued


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## Onk (Feb 23, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> When I dudes running deca and tren it screams "I have unclear goals."
> 
> I like plan a better. Finish out the deca. Run 250 test and 500 tren e for 13 weeKS and recomp.



Going to agree with him here. 

I wouldn't use tren above 600mg week as it makes me angry and affects me at work....a negative that isn't worth while for me. 
So if I was going on a decent sized bulk, I'd go tren up to 550-600 then anything ontop would be deca or test


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## Anzel (Feb 23, 2016)

Well wait a minute here onk. I don't think you are agreeing with him at all.... it's more that you agree with my op actually.
I was asking about running tren a  at 350 a week on top of deca as 600 a week and test at 750.
Pillar suggested that I not run the deca at all and said I should up my tren to 500 and run low test.


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## NbleSavage (Feb 23, 2016)

Finish the Deca run then drop it.

When finished, keep your Test at 250 Mg and add 500 Mg of Tren. Many find the low Test / high Tren approach helps to keep sides at bay.

500 Mg Tren should be plenty to recomp and cut on. Dont let the mirror mind-fawk you either: you'll most likely lose some water weight from the Deca. You're not losing muscle mass. With a proper diet you should shred-up nicely.

Enjoy the run!

- Savage


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 23, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> You can cut or bulk on either one. Test too
> As I said in my op,  been bulking for 6 months and then switched to maintenence.  You should never go from bulk to cut. Maintenance is required . My diet will only change slightly and by adding in cardio and new compounds I intend to cut.
> That's my goals. As outlined above
> Current test 250/deca 600 has been rather mild. I feel that upping test to 750 will help foster appreciable growth along with the addition of tren .
> ...



I don't know who made that rule that maintenance is required. Also I said recomp.  Not cut.  And what is wrong with the doses I stated?


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## Anzel (Feb 23, 2016)

Idk  the origin either but it was mentioned 3j and a few others.
The dosing you laid out is fine except I have ace on hand and I have always done mild conservative cycles. I feel using test higher will be a bold cycle
 but well within my wheelhouse. I base this off of what I currently see while on test 250/deca 600. I  see less gains. Of course less sides too. 
Yes you did say recomp and I was thinking cut.... I think recomp is better idea


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## Onk (Feb 24, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> Well wait a minute here onk. I don't think you are agreeing with him at all.... it's more that you agree with my op actually.
> I was asking about running tren a  at 350 a week on top of deca as 600 a week and test at 750.
> Pillar suggested that I not run the deca at all and said I should up my tren to 500 and run low test.



I was agreeing with you. I worded my comment weirdly. It was meant to say "I'll agree with him (OP) here."


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## Onk (Feb 24, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> Idk  the origin either but it was mentioned 3j and a few others.
> The dosing you laid out is fine except I have ace on hand and I have always done mild conservative cycles. I feel using test higher will be a bold cycle
> but well within my wheelhouse. I base this off of what I currently see while on test 250/deca 600. I  see less gains. Of course less sides too.
> Yes you did say recomp and I was thinking cut.... I think recomp is better idea



what you'll realise really quickly is that 3j is a pretty shit coach. He sends the same cookie cutter diet to everyone with the same exercise plan. He also knows **** all about anabolics.


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## Anzel (Feb 24, 2016)

Onk said:


> what you'll realise really quickly is that 3j is a pretty shit coach. He sends the same cookie cutter diet to everyone with the same exercise plan. He also knows **** all about anabolics.


For the price I wouldn't expect anything but cookie cutter. For a customized plan you pay more for it. 

I think bulk, maintain,  cut, maintain,  repeat is pretty standard with everyone no?


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## NbleSavage (Feb 24, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> For the price I wouldn't expect anything but cookie cutter. For a customized plan you pay more for it.
> 
> I think bulk, maintain,  cut, maintain,  repeat is pretty standard with everyone no?



Talk with Spongy for a real diet plan. Great investment and the returns will be immediate.


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## Anzel (Feb 24, 2016)

Thanks everyone


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## gymrat827 (Feb 24, 2016)

IMHO drop deca.  Higher on tes.  Leave tren as planned.


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## MrRippedZilla (Feb 24, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> I think bulk, maintain,  cut, maintain,  repeat is pretty standard with everyone no?



I'm one of those who do advocate a maintenance period when moving from a straight cut > bulk or visa versa. 
The hormonal environment your in at the time, which is linked to the delayed transformation phenomena (I wont go to into this now), means that skipping on this maintenance period will either a) limit muscle growth or b) lead to unnecessary fat gain. 
The length of the maintenance period depends on a few factors like length of bulk/cut, size of deficit/surplus, etc but most of the time 2-6 weeks is enough before switching to the next stage. 

Of course this doesn't really apply to properly organized recomps so if that's what your going with then no need to worry about all this ^^^


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## Anzel (Feb 24, 2016)

There is a lot of info out there about it.


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## hulksmash (Feb 24, 2016)

Drop the Deca, Hit gram test and 600 tren

Do a strong AI, do your t3

enjoy your fat and water loss

Only said a gram since youve blasted for 8 years; you should be at your goal already


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## Anzel (Feb 24, 2016)

hulksmash said:


> Drop the Deca, Hit gram test and 600 tren
> 
> Do a strong AI, do your t3
> 
> ...


Oh boy,  now we are talkin!
Never been above 750 on test. 800 would be too all a jump. A gram sounds sweet
I have aromas in . About 20mg ed or eod? What ya think ?


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## ToolSteel (Feb 24, 2016)

I'd have to run about 125mg of stane a week for a gram


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 24, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> I'd have to run about 125mg of stane a week for a gram



That's why adex and letro are superior choices in most cases


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## Anzel (Feb 24, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> That's why adex and letro are superior choices in most cases


I switched to aromasin because it's supposed to be easier on the LDL


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## Anzel (Feb 24, 2016)

How do you guys feel about myostatin on an 8 month cycle? Technically to overcome it you have to up your dose. Which I would be doing. But do you feel there is some diminished return due to it?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 24, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> I switched to aromasin because it's supposed to be easier on the LDL





> Effect on Lipids
> These three AIs have somewhat different effects on lipid profile. In one study in patients with metastatic disease (n = 952 at study entry), anastrozole showed no marked effect on lipid profile compared with baseline. Whereas these patients had advanced metastatic disease, these data do provide some evidence that anastrozole did not significantly change the lipid profile compared with the baseline studies (35) . A smaller study (n = 44) that compared lipids at baseline and after 32 weeks of treatment with anastrozole (36) also did not show any significant alterations in the lipid parameters. Letrozole was evaluated in 20 women with advanced breast cancer who showed a significant increase in total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein from baseline after 8 and 16 weeks of therapy (37) . In a 9-week trial in advanced breast cancer, exemestane resulted in a significant decrease in both total cholesterol and HDL (38) . Exemestane also decreased the total triglyceride levels in this study. In another European Organization of Research and Treatment of Cancer study, 24 weeks of exemestane had no impact on the lipid profile (39) . Clinical implications of these changes remain to be defined.



http://m.clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/9/1/468s.full


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## MrRippedZilla (Feb 24, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> How do you guys feel about myostatin on an 8 month cycle? Technically to overcome it you have to up your dose. Which I would be doing. But do you feel there is some diminished return due to it?



I wouldn't worry about myostatin at all.
We don't understand the full picture when it comes to myostatin and, at best, its just one component of a much larger system at work when it comes to muscle growth regulation.  

Diminished returns occur with everything as you become more advanced (nothing you can do about this) and the 3 steps I always use to make sure progress doesn't halt are:
- Recalculating your new TDEE
- Keeping an eye on training progress and restructuring where necessary
- Up the dose


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## Onk (Feb 25, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> Oh boy,  now we are talkin!
> Never been above 750 on test. 800 would be too all a jump. A gram sounds sweet
> I have aromas in . About 20mg ed or eod? What ya think ?



You get used to it. I can sit at 0.3mg of dex eod for a gram of test....

It's the tren that will play games with you!


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## Anzel (Feb 25, 2016)

It may not be much difference but I think 800 test/500 tren a is a good jump for me. If all goes well and it's all tolerable I can do a gram/tren 600 next year.


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## hulksmash (Feb 25, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> How do you guys feel about myostatin on an 8 month cycle? Technically to overcome it you have to up your dose. Which I would be doing. But do you feel there is some diminished return due to it?



If you are mentioning myostatin, then you have no clue on the processes of myostatin inhibition/satellite cell formation/etc being affected by AAS

And everyone here knows not to get me started on myostatin/follistatin


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## hulksmash (Feb 25, 2016)

Whippedeye said:


> It may not be much difference but I think 800 test/500 tren a is a good jump for me. If all goes well and it's all tolerable I can do a gram/tren 600 next year.



I didn't know a gram would be a jump for you.

Just sayin'; I would hate to blast 8 years and still not be at "maintenance" of my physique every year


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## Anzel (Feb 25, 2016)

I don't hate it. I hate bad drivers and liars tho..... lol
It may not be a jump for me. But I have a pension for being coservative. My good friend says he thinks a gram is not needed.
I'm still considering. I'm just thinking out loud right now and braimstorming. I like talking about this stuff.  It relaxes me


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## Anzel (Feb 25, 2016)

hulksmash said:


> If you are mentioning myostatin, then you have no clue on the processes of myostatin inhibition/satellite cell formation/etc being affected by AAS
> 
> And everyone here knows not to get me started on myostatin/follistatin


I actually had someone on another forum give me the high holy lecture on myostatin and I'm back over here asking bout it . Ripp hit me with a good post when I asked. He kwtf he's talking about and based on his answer I see I can move on to other research.
Hulk , thanks for telling me I have no clue. Although a bit redundant as by me asking my question about it sort of eluded to that fact.


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## ToolSteel (Feb 25, 2016)

Of course a gram is not NEEDED. Nothing wrong with staying conservative.


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## Anzel (Feb 25, 2016)

No,  not at all! I can always run a gram next year


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