# Need a little advice fellas



## Jaydub (Jun 14, 2016)

So my doctor (primary care) has me on testosterone (androgel). He's just family practice. He has had me on injections before, but would only do them once every 3 weeks, and I would have to go to the office to have them done. For a while I was working to get a referral to an endocrinologist. This was taking some time, so I kind of gave up on it for the time being. Meanwhile I have a few bottles of test left over, so I've been dosing myself with .7ml of test e 300 twice a week, and just shelving the Androgel. Now I got a letter in the mail with an appointment for the specialist set for the end of this month. Now I know I want to get on HRT. But I'm unsure of what the process is gonna be like with the specialist. And also I'm wondering if I should stop pinning the test right now to let my levels drop as I know they will want to do blood tests first thing. So to boil it all down, what should I do? And what can I expect from the specialist when I see them..


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## ECKSRATED (Jun 14, 2016)

Yeah stop pinning. They will just check your test levels and take it from there.


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## bigdog (Jun 14, 2016)

stop pinning and androgel. they will get you going in the right direction. androgel sucks!


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## Jaydub (Jun 14, 2016)

bigdog said:


> stop pinning and androgel. they will get you going in the right direction. androgel sucks!



Yeah it does. Only works a bit of you use at least 2 pumps. Last time I pinned was last week Tuesday. Appointment is for the 29th. Just got the letter with the confirmation. I'm just worried they're gonna test my levels and kinda raise their eyebrows a bit at me lol.


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## Spongy (Jun 14, 2016)

We're you pinning 420mg test per week for TRT or for cycle?  The others have already advised to stop pinning and I agree so now I'm just curious.


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## bigdog (Jun 14, 2016)

Jaydub said:


> Yeah it does. Only works a bit of you use at least 2 pumps. Last time I pinned was last week Tuesday. Appointment is for the 29th. Just got the letter with the confirmation. I'm just worried they're gonna test my levels and kinda raise their eyebrows a bit at me lol.


if you don't pin by the time you go to the appointment the numbers will have dropped by the 29th.


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## Jaydub (Jun 15, 2016)

Spongy said:


> We're you pinning 420mg test per week for TRT or for cycle?  The others have already advised to stop pinning and I agree so now I'm just curious.


Yeah, it was a little of both. Doc has given me patches and gel.. I just figured since I had a few bottles left over I'd just run those out.


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## Jaydub (Jun 15, 2016)

bigdog said:


> if you don't pin by the time you go to the appointment the numbers will have dropped by the 29th.


Yeah.. It'll be 3 weeks since my last poke by the time of my appointment. Should be alright.. Just making sure. Appreciate the help


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## IHI (Jun 15, 2016)

Appointment will take about an hour. The endo will have a long list of questions regarding why you feel your test levels are low, and then divulge deeper into some of your answers that you give him. And 1 of the questions you will heAR more than once, "have you ever done steroids?"

From there, if he's a legit doctor and trying to find cause of your low t and try to make your body try to get itself going again...he will obviously make an appointment to draw blood for testing before 8am sooner than later so he can see where a pleather of various aspects in your body are currentry at. He may move forward after labs to a cat scan of your pituitary gland in your brain to make sure that's all good. Then it may move into blood infusion to test reactivity to certain hormones designed to stimulate the adrenal glands and pituitary responses.

After all that he will have his choices made and present them to you. First one will probably be ruNing 50mg of clomid eod or 25mg clomid ed to see if he can restart your body to produce it's own. More than likely it will raise t levels, but you may still feel shitty (like I did) even though it doubled my count and put me just over 400 total t. Hopefully your guy listens to you and hears you still feel like crap despite being in the normal range of that fake assed bell graph chart most all doctors live and die by.

Then you'll be asked to stop clomid, 4 weeks later another lab will be drawn to check new resluts if body is keeping up or levels drop again. I went back lower than initial count to a 189 total t.

Then it will open discussion on gels, pellets, and hopefully injections. Told my specialist injects are the only route I will entertain due to small kids in the house I don't want gel for fear of my then 2yr old growing a beard, and I refused pellets absolutely.

Most legit endos will start you at a universal .5ml/week aka 100mg test since pharmacy stuff is only 200mg and not 250mg like most all ugl stuff is. You'll run that 4-6 weeks and do a lab before your next shot and then another lab 2 days after your shot to find your trough and peak levels and adjustments can be made after that. Most doc aren't interested in beast mode, they want to get you into a normal range for your age so as to help with the downside symptoms of low t, but not induce the side effects caused by high t...esspecially with insurance company big brother looking at everything since they will refuse payments if they see red flag material (high level labs) as they will deem that as abuse.

Sorry so long, took me over a year and 7 doctors to find/get referred to one that knew what he was doing, but I went thru a ton of tests prior to him just saying let's give trt a shot and just see what happens because all my resluts always contradicted themselves..and I had never used anything and that waz why they finally referred me to this guy hoping he could make sense of it.


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## IHI (Jun 15, 2016)

Also, right now your level should be outside the highest side of their graph, so stop all injections and such now (last tuesday) and let your body crash slowly before the appointment. If you want to really nose dive the numbers, get drunken than hell a day or two before appointment and stay up all night before appointment, promise you'll be bottomed out numbers wise at that point, which is better than being baby beast mode.


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## PillarofBalance (Jun 15, 2016)

Well the answer IHI to have you done steroids in this case is yes. His doc was doing injects patches and gel.  The endo would possibly stop there and either offer clomid or injects or gel.


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## Jaydub (Jun 15, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Well the answer IHI to have you done steroids in this case is yes. His doc was doing injects patches and gel.  The endo would possibly stop there and either offer clomid or injects or gel.


Yes. This is pretty much the path I wanted to take. Have my low t diagnosed by my family doctor, have him treat me with some form of prescribed test.. Then when I do go to the specialist and my labs come back a little iffy I can blame it on the treatments I was getting from my primary care. But I'm sure these endocrinologists aren't terribly dumb, and have seen guys like me before. But still, it's legit, and valid. Maybe I was using too much androgel.


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## Jaydub (Jun 15, 2016)

IHI said:


> Appointment will take about an hour. The endo will have a long list of questions regarding why you feel your test levels are low, and then divulge deeper into some of your answers that you give him. And 1 of the questions you will heAR more than once, "have you ever done steroids?"
> 
> From there, if he's a legit doctor and trying to find cause of your low t and try to make your body try to get itself going again...he will obviously make an appointment to draw blood for testing before 8am sooner than later so he can see where a pleather of various aspects in your body are currentry at. He may move forward after labs to a cat scan of your pituitary gland in your brain to make sure that's all good. Then it may move into blood infusion to test reactivity to certain hormones designed to stimulate the adrenal glands and pituitary responses.
> 
> ...


Aw man.. That sounds like a very long, very unhappy road. I mean I gotta do what I gotta do... But damn.


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## IHI (Jun 15, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Well the answer IHI to have you done steroids in this case is yes. His doc was doing injects patches and gel.  The endo would possibly stop there and either offer clomid or injects or gel.



Yeah, just depends what OP's end game is. If he has access to ugl oil already then personally I'd say cancel the appointment and just keep on keeping on doing stuff on the personal level because it will take an honest year to go thru the whole song and dance of test after test after test thru an endo who is extremely thorough. Unless you find that special doctor or go thru a better living clinic, isn't a "normal" everyday doc going to let their patient pin quantities guys here do, that's just not reality because it's their butt on the line, and their butt is directed, directly, by insurance companys.

But I agree/assume, OP goes in crashed, says he's done steroids or high level test injections, the endo is going to treat him on a stiictly restart basis with clomid and/or gel to get his levels up quick with gel, and body rebooted with clomid and then wipe his hands if his levels stay in the noral bellgraph chart.

So OP is very much in a kanundrum lol


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## IHI (Jun 15, 2016)

Jaydub said:


> Aw man.. That sounds like a very long, very unhappy road. I mean I gotta do what I gotta do... But damn.



Brotha, it sucked and there is no way I can candy coat it. Very long drawn out ordeal for sure, but staying the course finally paid off. I researched my ass off so I knew what to ask, what responses from docs that would be a tell tale of their cluelessness. Hence the constant doctor jumping.

Learned a ton on my own, learned more after meeting with the specialist at our states big hospital that is treating me and our conversations so I'm thankful for that, but most of all just happy to feel much better than I did when I started down this road, definately a life changer that was ultimately worth the hassle in the end.


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## Jaydub (Jun 15, 2016)

Kanundrum I am in.. That's for sure. I have enough oil to get thru probably a good 6 to 8 months if I keep the rate I'm going. Don't have ugl access anymore.. Which is what happens when you go on long term hiatus, nothing I can do about that. Always knew the day would come where I'd be stuck holding the bag.. So I stockpiled a bit.. Planned on using the doc for TRT. Then moving into HRT with a specialist. 

So IHI, you think I'm pretty much screwed? Just gotta grit my teeth and bear it?


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## Jaydub (Jun 15, 2016)

And dang dude.. So when I go in there, do I tell them my whole history? They're gonna wanna know why I was started on TRT with my doctor in the first place. I'm sure they'll have access to the labs my doc ran. It's fairly likely they'll be able to put 2 and 2 together don't ya think? I mean, sure I'm all jacked up right now because of current treatment and all that. But is long term history gonna matter? You think there's any chance this new doctor will accept my circumstance and get me going on HRT? If I try to be a little persuasive about what my system is doing?


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## IHI (Jun 15, 2016)

All going to depend on the doctor if you want to be honest with him and roll the dice with the morals of a man you've never meet who's directed by insurance companies on how to treat his patients.

Knowing what I know now and how doctors are, think it'd be a perfect time to enact the little white lie rule, maybe forgetting to leave some stuff out of your history, but that's just me after being in the trench for a year seeing how the trt game is pla yes to finally get treated.


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## Jaydub (Jun 15, 2016)

Yeah, better to say too little than to say too much. So I'll just see what they say, feel em out.  Definitely not gonna offer up any info that they don't need to know. And see how things go... One step at a time. Thanks for the advice man, seriously


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## El Gringo (Jun 15, 2016)

IHI said:


> Appointment will take about an hour. The endo will have a long list of questions regarding why you feel your test levels are low, and then divulge deeper into some of your answers that you give him. And 1 of the questions you will heAR more than once, "have you ever done steroids?"
> 
> From there, if he's a legit doctor and trying to find cause of your low t and try to make your body try to get itself going again...he will obviously make an appointment to draw blood for testing before 8am sooner than later so he can see where a pleather of various aspects in your body are currentry at. He may move forward after labs to a cat scan of your pituitary gland in your brain to make sure that's all good. Then it may move into blood infusion to test reactivity to certain hormones designed to stimulate the adrenal glands and pituitary responses.
> 
> ...



I'm right in the middle of this long process that you just described. Going for the MRI next week to scan my pituitary gland. thanks for laying everything out so I get a glimpse at what probably lies ahead.


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## IHI (Jun 16, 2016)

No problem, eases a guys mind a bit when you know your battlefield before the battle begins. Life's already tough enough suffering symptoms of low t, so knowing it'll be a long road just helps you forge ahead.

We have a huge thread with hundreds of thousands of views on my drag racing forum that started off as a "what's a normal testosterone level" and is sooo many pages long now with guys asking questions, bunk advice/shitty hearsay garbage that we debunk, but overall it's a very positive thread and have had so many pm's from guys thanking me or asking more questions they were too embarasssing to ask on public forum...

Just like this forum with fantastic lifting, dieting, and stacking advice; I'm here to learn more and just glad once in a very great while I can contribute a bit back. That way I don't feel so guilty taking in everything this place has to offer lol.

Good luck brotha, it'll all be worth it in the end, that I will guarantee.


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## El Gringo (Jun 17, 2016)

thanks again for the inside scoop. I'll be more aware of the obstacles that lie ahead. One obstacle being an MRI. Prolactin came back on the low-side of normal and they still want to do an MRI. What was the point of running bloods for my prolactin in the first place? and today i just got a call to go back for more blood work (LH/FSH and Free Test) which i just got done 3 weeks ago. they've already got 3 labs done and i haven't been put on anything.

My main concern is the MRI though. I feel like they may be taking advantage of my money. I know healthcare is just as dirty as politics. How much did you pay for your MRI? (I'm assuming you have insurance) because i don't want a $3,000 bill for a pointless screening.


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