# Long or Short Ester



## transcend2007 (Jul 23, 2013)

I getting ready for my next cycle.

I am going to run 300mg test, 300mg nandrolone, 300mg mast.  My question is what advantage is there in running NPP and Mast P (short esters) over deca and Mast E (long esters).  I have been taking Mast P with my trt and love it.

However on cycle it seems like I could reduce the injections (and injection volume) by 50% by using the long esters.

If I go 100 mg route of test prop, NPP, Mast P that's inject M/W/F 3 shots of 3 ML (total of 9 ML's per week).

If I go the 200 mg route of test e, deca, Mast E thats 2 shots per week 4.5 total ML's of injection volume.

I've been on trt for 3 years so I use to the needle.

Are there any advantages to the short esters?


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## #TheMatrix (Jul 23, 2013)

short esters work quicker so effects can be felt quicker.  long esters are sometimes prefered for less frequent injections but bloods will be up n down most of the cycle. 

short esters are sometimes used to maintain stable bloods or more in the users control.  

pob will say stable bloods are overrated.


I prefer what ever  im looking for in that cycle.  
most times long esters are dosed higher then short esters.  

if the user is vulnerable to sides from a specific compound. he should consider a short ester in case sides get bad, he can abandon ship


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 23, 2013)

Stable bloods are over rated. 

The advantage of going with NPP over deca is recovery time. Even if you don't PCT and go to TRT there is a period coming of deca where you just aren't right. It's shorter with NPP.


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## Hero Swole (Jul 23, 2013)

For you current cycle. Its not worth it imo. Just stick to long esters. 

First of all 3cc 3 days a week its going to give you hella pip. Second, injecting short esters 3x a week is not optimal for short esters (its debatable). Optimum would be ed or oed. Third, its just going to be a pain in the ass and i mean it. 

Unless due to logistic you gotta manipulate your cycle to a greater extent. Save your self the trouble.

Short ester means that your testosterone lvls peak quicker.
If you want quicker results you can always frontload for the first week. And reach the desired t level quicker by injecting more of it before they peak naturally. But this is my preference.


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## transcend2007 (Jul 23, 2013)

How would you guys compare legit Primo e (250/mg) to any of the Nan's......I will admit I suffered a little pip and pussied out a little.  I have 10 vials sitting here.....but its hard to imagine 20 weeks of pip like that?

Before the pip attackers even start, yes my estrogen is in check (so don't even go there).  And, I don't wear dresses....lol


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## Braw16 (Jul 23, 2013)

I agree with POB on the npp. If I'm not going to get ready for a show I would run long esters. For me test e and some of the long esters tend to cause me to bloat. Plus I get tired of pinning.


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## ken Sass (Jul 23, 2013)

you get more of the compound with short ester, less ester means more room you have for the active chemical. hits quicker and is out quicker


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## hulksmash (Jul 24, 2013)

transcend2007 said:


> I getting ready for my next cycle.
> 
> I am going to run 300mg test, 300mg nandrolone, 300mg mast.  My question is what advantage is there in running NPP and Mast P (short esters) over deca and Mast E (long esters).  I have been taking Mast P with my trt and love it.
> 
> ...



There are *NO* advantages to a short ester

ONLY IF YOU COMPETE will short esters be better, due to closer contest time and dropping long esters of test and deca and others from the offseason

Don't compete=use long esters

I NEVER use short esters


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## hulksmash (Jul 24, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Stable bloods are over rated.
> 
> The advantage of going with NPP over deca is recovery time. Even if you don't PCT and go to TRT there is a period coming of deca where you just aren't right. It's shorter with NPP.



It's not overrated, it's bullshit! 

Hell, even endogenous testosterone and other hormones are NOT stable! Placebo at its finest

And yea-for those of you who cycle on and off, a shorter NPP would fare better then deca

If you don't come off stick to deca


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## SFGiants (Jul 24, 2013)

I like short over long with Mast, and Nandrolone pinning it M/W/F it's more bang for your buck and a quicker start, I like fast shorter cycles that I can stop and restart up faster with.

To say there is no advantage is wrong the biggest advantage is more frequents faster cycles apposed to a long one.

Shit happens and when a cycle gets cut short because of something out of your control at least with the short ester you got more out of it if you needed to stop the cycle. I know this for fact I was on a cycle when each of my surgeries came up with 2 of 3 unexpected.

IMO why chose pinning 2 x a week over 3 x a week if your going to get going quicker and if needed to come off you can with less waste.

It's a preference one must make a choice on and for me short = better but I always stay on Test C.

*Then there is even the bigger decision and that is the source with choosing the gear that suits you the best and in some cases it is a choice made of one over the other just so you know you got what you need and already know how it responds to your body. I have seen people make poor choices on prices or ester's to come up short with not such good gear so I always say what I was taught and that is stick with what has been already proven to you because it's you body and wallet.*


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## Yaya (Jul 24, 2013)

I love shorts...but also like longer ones as well


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## SFGiants (Jul 24, 2013)

Yaya said:


> I love shorts...but also like longer ones as well



Yaya takes the long and short one he is not picky at all, says size don't matter!


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## DF (Jul 24, 2013)

transcend2007 said:


> How would you guys compare legit Primo e (250/mg) to any of the Nan's......I will admit I suffered a little pip and pussied out a little.  I have 10 vials sitting here.....but its hard to imagine 20 weeks of pip like that?
> 
> Before the pip attackers even start, yes my estrogen is in check (so don't even go there).  And, I don't wear dresses....lol



You have to cut it with something brother.  Primo 250 hurts like a mofo. Inject it with mast or test or even a lower mg Primo.


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## transcend2007 (Jul 24, 2013)

True that DF!

I am leaning towards the shorter ester npp currently due to faster kick in and as others have said faster out of my system.

What do you guys think of 375mg test c 250mg/ml, 300mg npp 100mg/ml, 300mg mast p 100mg/ml per week M/W/F for a 12 to 16 week cycle?



Dfeaton said:


> You have to cut it with something brother.  Primo 250 hurts like a mofo. Inject it with mast or test or even a lower mg Primo.


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## CCCP (Jul 25, 2013)

if you do props(short esters) i would recommend doing it ED instead of EOD to keep levels balanced, which means lower your dosages. 300-400 mast is more than enough, about 75 a day, thats just my opinion from my research


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## Popeye (Jul 25, 2013)

I love short esters...complete different experience for me...Im on E this cycle and it aint shit to the Prop ive done before or the TPP....ill never run long ester again...o and prop EOD for me


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## SFGiants (Jul 25, 2013)

Popeye said:


> I love short esters...complete different experience for me...Im on E this cycle and it aint shit to the Prop ive done before or the TPP....ill never run long ester again...o and prop EOD for me



Short ester = more bang


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## Bullseye Forever (Jul 25, 2013)

SFGiants said:


> Short ester = more bang



I agree with SFG,Ive ran Deca along time and this cycle I just started using npp for the first time,and I will never go back to deca,cause it fits me better,health wise,and working quicker,and I get less water bloat with npp than I did with deca.when I run out of masteron e,i will get me some masteron prop to use,im using a test/npp/masteron trip right now,fixing to drop the npp and add var to the mix,cant wait.....oh and transend,you will love npp!!


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## Stretch (Jul 26, 2013)

In the case of DECA v NPP they deliver nearly the same amount of nandrolone once the ester is cleaved.  So they are, for all practical purposes, equipotent on a mg/mg basis.

Milligrams below are the estimated amount of active hormone per 100mg of hormone and ester.

Boldenone base: 100mg 
Boldenone acetate: 83mg
Boldenone Propionate : 80mg
Boldenone Cypionate : 69mg
Boldenone Undecylenate: 61mg

Clostebol Base: 100mg
Clostebol Acetate: 84mg
Clostebol Enanthate : 72mg

Drostanolone Base: 100mg
Drostanolone Propionate: 80mg
Drostanolone Enanthate: 71mg

Methenolone Base: 100mg
Methenolone Acetate: 82mg
Methenolone Enanthate: 71mg

Nandrolone Base: 100mg
Nandrolone Cypionate: 69mg
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate: 63mg
Nandrolone Decanoate: 62mg
Nandrolone Undecylenate: 60mg
Nandrolone Laurate: 56mg

Stenbolone Base: 100mg
Stenbolone Acetate: 84mg

Testosterone Base: 100mg
Testosterone Acetate: 83mg
Testosterone Propionate : 80mg
Testosterone Isocaproate: 72mg
Testosterone Enanthate : 70mg
Testosterone Cypionate : 69mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 66mg
Testosterone Decanoate: 62mg
Testosterone Undecanoate: 61mg

Trenbolone Base: 100mg
Trenbolone Acetate: 83mg
Trenbolone Enanthate: 68mg
Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzyl Carbonate: 65mg*
Trenbolone cyclohexylmethylcarbonate: 65mg* 

Drug Active half-life

Anadrol / Anapolan50 (oxymetholone) 8 to 9 hours
Anavar (oxandrolone) 9 hours
Dianabol (methandrostenolone , methandienone) 4.5 to 6 hours
Methyltestosterone 4 days
Winstrol (stanozolol ) 9 hours

INJECTABLE STEROIDS

Drug Active half-life

Deca -durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 15 days
Equipoise 14 days
Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days
Primobolan (methenolone enanthate) 10.5 days
Sustanon or Omnadren 15 to 18 days
Testosterone Cypionate 12 days
Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days
Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days
Testosterone Suspension 1 day
Winstrol (stanozolol) 1 day


STEROID ESTERS

Drug Active half-life

Formate 1.5 days
Acetate 3 days
Propionate 4.5 days
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days
Butyrate 6 days
Valerate 7.5 days
Hexanoate 9 days
Caproate 9 days
Isocaproate 9 days
Heptanoate 10.5 days
Enanthate 10.5 days
Octanoate 12 days
Cypionate 12 days
Nonanoate 13.5 days
Decanoate 15 days
Undecanoate 16.5 days

ANCILLARIES

Drug Active half-life

Arimidex 3 days
Clenbuterol 1.5 days
Clomid 5 days
Cytadren 6 hours
Ephedrine 6 hours
T3 10 hours


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## SFGiants (Jul 26, 2013)

I go by what my body tells me from experience not a chart or study.


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## Stretch (Jul 26, 2013)

All I was discussing were the molecular weights.  

You can "believe" all you want that TPP or NPP offers more bang/$.  Bottom line is PhenylProp is a heavy ester, and offers LESS bang them cypionate or enanthate.  Regardless of your "feelings". 

Now in regards to other anecdotal reports I would agree 110%.  I hate people who claim that just because there aren't 12 peer reviewed, clinical articles on the subject it must not be true.

Its so funny being new somewhere and feeling that "resistance" to your posts. The difference is so blatantly obvious.


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## Big_paul_ski (Jul 26, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Stable bloods are over rated.
> 
> The advantage of going with NPP over deca is recovery time. Even if you don't PCT and go to TRT there is a period coming of deca where you just aren't right. It's shorter with NPP.



When giving advise on this subject I wood tell the person that is running deca to run the test 3 weeks or longer after dropping the deca as those esters clear and that works very well. Just my opinion.


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## SFGiants (Jul 26, 2013)

Stretch said:


> All I was discussing were the molecular weights.
> 
> You can "believe" all you want that TPP or NPP offers more bang/$.  Bottom line is PhenylProp is a heavy ester, and offers LESS bang them cypionate or enanthate.  Regardless of your "feelings".
> 
> ...



NPP = more bang then Nandrolone Decanoate with it's speed in and out and good luck finding Nandrolone Cypionate or Nandrolone Cypionate Enanthate


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## SFGiants (Jul 26, 2013)

Nandrolone Enanthate not Nandrolone Cypionate Enanthate, damn typo lol!


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## Bro Bundy (Jul 26, 2013)

SFGiants said:


> Nandrolone Enanthate not Nandrolone Cypionate Enanthate, damn typo lol!


I would love a nand E


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## Stretch (Jul 26, 2013)

SFGiants said:


> NPP = more bang then Nandrolone Decanoate with it's speed in and out and good luck finding Nandrolone Cypionate or Nandrolone Cypionate Enanthate




True. 

Nandrolone decanoate provides exactly a 1%+ potency differential.  

1% is something I suppose.

I couldn't agree more with your preference for NPP over Decanoate. The faster kick in, plus the faster clearing time, means there really isn't a choice for me.  

I was never suggesting you try to find NE or NC.  In the first post you made regarding bang/buck you "quoted" a poster who was referring to TPP, TP, and TE. So, IMO, the reference to the more common enanthate/cypionate esters was relevant.


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## transcend2007 (Jul 27, 2013)

Stretch, do you have any personal experience with topic, yes or no?  

I don't know who you are being that you are brand new to SI so don't hi-jack my thread by copying and pasting irrelevant info.

Also your complaint about "resistance to your posts" you sound like whinny little bitch.

Why not earn some respect by contributing to (or if you have no personal experience with topics learning from) "this board" instead of complaining....?



Stretch said:


> All I was discussing were the molecular weights.
> 
> You can "believe" all you want that TPP or NPP offers more bang/$.  Bottom line is PhenylProp is a heavy ester, and offers LESS bang them cypionate or enanthate.  Regardless of your "feelings".
> 
> ...


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## Cornedbeefhash (Jul 28, 2013)

transcend2007 said:


> I don't know who you are being that you are brand new to SI so don't hi-jack my thread by copying and pasting irrelevant info.


I wouldn't call his "copy and pasted" info irrelevant. It couldn't be more relevant to your question about esters.


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## transcend2007 (Jul 28, 2013)

No disrespect Cornbeef but I will determine if my thread was hi-jacked.  I posted this topic with the intention of hearing from my SI brother's who had actual personal experience with long and short esters.

I have never seen many of these esters below in the real world.  I doubt you or anyone else has either.  In any case they are not relevant.

Back to the original topic please, any advantage to using short esters over longer ones?  



Stretch said:


> Drug Active half-life
> 
> Formate 1.5 days
> Acetate 3 days
> ...


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## Bigwhite (Jul 28, 2013)

transcend2007 said:


> No disrespect Cornbeef but I will determine if my thread was hi-jacked.  I posted this topic with the intention of hearing from my SI brother's who had actual personal experience with long and short esters.
> 
> I have never seen many of these esters below in the real world.  I doubt you or anyone else has either.  In any case they are not relevant.
> 
> Back to the original topic please, any advantage to using short esters over longer ones?



 Those esters are more prominent than you think. One good source will have just about every one of those compounds.
And I prefer short esters to keep this on topic...


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## Stretch (Jul 28, 2013)

transcend2007 said:


> Stretch, do you have any personal experience with topic, yes or no?
> 
> I don't know who you are being that you are brand new to SI so don't hi-jack my thread by copying and pasting irrelevant info.
> 
> ...



Transcend, I understand you don't know me from any other boards. But you show your ignorance when you assume that just because I just joined SI that I am new to the life. I have respect.  Both for this board and its members, and therefore I will garner respect from those who remain objective. You act as a pissant.  You disliked three posts in one thread, most of which had nothing to do with you.  You did it in order to be a hateful, impotent little bitch.

 As if I give a fuck about "dislikes"

You're an insecure dick.

People were referring to getting more active hormone from short esters.  So I posted the science behind what they were saying(molecular weights of the esters). Its good info whether you're intelligent enough to realize its relevance to the topic at hand or not is not my concern. You don't own this thread, and it wasn't hijacked.  Until you started with your personal attacks. 

This will be the final time I engage you on the forum.  "Dislike" away, SPED.


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## Cornedbeefhash (Jul 28, 2013)

Stretch said:


> Transcend, I understand you don't know me from any other boards. But you show your ignorance when you assume that just because I just joined SI that I am new to the life. I have respect.  Both for this board and its members, and therefore I will garner respect from those who remain objective. You act as a pissant.  You disliked three posts in one thread, most of which had nothing to do with you.  You did it in order to be a hateful, impotent little bitch.
> 
> As if I give a fuck about "dislikes"
> 
> ...



I also agree that the thread wasn't hijacked and the information was relevant. Behind the answer you're looking for, is science. Stretch laid out the facts.


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## transcend2007 (Jul 28, 2013)

Stretch you still did not respond to the topic.  If you have had any personal experience with short and long esters.  Thanks for the science lesson but its wasn't need.  Anyone could pulled the same info you did from google.  Copy and pasting does not prove intelligence.  In case you missed the posts that came before yours there was a thriving discussion of the Pro's and Con's (people had personally experienced).

Now you've gone from sounding like a little bitch (when you complained your posts were regarded skeptically) to actually being one by throwing your little tantrum here.

You did not mention the PM you sent me taking a short at me for being an old man.  Just to be clear there are number of guys on SI who are in their 40's.  I've learned a ton from them and you could too without the immature bias you clearly have.  However, I also appreciate everyone's input regardless of age (with the exception of yours).

I have been here on SI for nearly a year and never had a single problem with a member before you appeared.  I am glad to hear you will not be engaging with me any further.





Stretch said:


> Transcend, I understand you don't know me from any other boards. But you show your ignorance when you assume that just because I just joined SI that I am new to the life. I have respect.  Both for this board and its members, and therefore I will garner respect from those who remain objective. You act as a pissant.  You disliked three posts in one thread, most of which had nothing to do with you.  You did it in order to be a hateful, impotent little bitch.
> 
> As if I give a fuck about "dislikes"
> 
> ...


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## Bigwhite (Jul 28, 2013)

^^^^Hmmm, wouldn't this be considered off topic?


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## transcend2007 (Jul 28, 2013)

LOL....thanks for the reminder BW.....and your earlier post regarding you preferred short esters.  I am leaning in that overall direction as well.

Although I will add that I have a few very good sources and I have to be honest I have never seen some the esters mentioned in the irrelevant doc I quoted last time.

Butyrate 6 days
Valerate 7.5 days
Caproate 9 days
Heptanoate 10.5 days
Octanoate 12 days

Seriously....?  

As I said before this was copied word for word off Google with no knowledge or understanding of the topic.

If you're going to plagiarize (that means steal someone else's article) at least give the author credit....FFS (for fuck's sake).

BigWhite....the stolen article comment was not meant to you.....I was directing that at Stretch in case you misunderstood.

Sorry, back to the discussion of long and short esters!



Bigwhite said:


> ^^^^Hmmm, wouldn't this be considered off topic?


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## DF (Jul 29, 2013)

Just to be clear on the rules of SI.  Every member here is valued and appreciated. Everyone is to be respected, this is our number one rule. Zero Tolerance. Debate and discussion is encouraged. Flaming, name calling and childish fighting is not. Public call outs and drama is not tolerated.


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