# Movements to build squat strength



## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

So.... I'm in the process of designing the next 2 microcycles of my training program. I'm running 2 4 week blocks implementing Mike Tuchscherer's Reactive Training. Without devoting an entire thread to this concept, let it suffice to say I'm toying around with ideas for main and accessory movements.

A little background first. I tore my ACL 2 years ago and had to rehab back to near preinjury level slowly. I still have knee aches, but strength and stability are 100% and 95%, respectively. My last 4 week cycle was normal low bar squats, with banded squats as assistance. Prior to that, I used normal squats, but also included a heavy set of 8 every week. This really seemed to help drive my quads and subsequently drove my max up at least 20 lbs. Prior to that I did a block of front squats as a main movement. 2 weeks volume, 2 weeks intensity. I lift raw, with knee sleeves, a belt, and squat shoes. Been natural for the last 6 years or so, and have blocks of very long hour work demands which definitely hampers recovery. Luckily right now, I'm working normal hours, but summer normally comes with a ramp of of work volume. I am just curious what some of you other guys that train similarly like to use as main movements. And why. Thanks in advance. It's always nice to pick someone's brain about lifting imo, and all my friends just get bored to tears when I talk about this stuff.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

I meant stability is 100%, strength is 95%. My apologies.


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## Metalhead1 (Apr 2, 2021)

To build the Squat, I've had great success with good mornings. I prefer suspended good mornings to be safer on the concentric.

As far as programming, I have one heavy Squat day, and a Speed day. The speed Squats have helped mainly in getting in volume, with lower %'s, and shorter rest periods. 

Lastly, if you gained 20lbs in your Squat over the last cycle or two, I wouldn't change much honestly. I would stick with that until progress stalls, then figure out why.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

I have just noted from doing this a minute that I can milk an exercise for a few cycles, but then my gains kind of dry out. I honestly think it was the addition of the higher rep squats that provided the shock. It's like 8 weeks ago, I could feel everything increasing at a better rate, and then the last 4 weeks, adaptation has occured and it tapered off some. Also, I'm still utilizing some muscle memory. Still working back from the knee injury. I can see you are a fan of the conjugate method. Nothing wrong with that friend.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

What level do you suspend the good morning at? And with what? Safety bars?


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## Badleroybrown (Apr 2, 2021)

I use to use box squats a lot. But I would set the the box heights every week. The higher the box the more you can load the bar and it will help with the upper end of the movement. Then some weeks I set the box parallel or slightly below. When you box squat you have to push your ass out when you sit and make sure to not pounce off the box. The keep your core tight and push back up thru the movement.. it.this will help your bottom up. Takes more effort and force to get off the box. Sometime you can not get as much weight up. if you box squat correctly then if you just did a normal squat.
This is what has worked for me to break thru plague as. Good Luck


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## Metalhead1 (Apr 2, 2021)

Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> I have just noted from doing this a minute that I can milk an exercise for a few cycles, but then my gains kind of dry out. I honestly think it was the addition of the higher rep squats that provided the shock. It's like 8 weeks ago, I could feel everything increasing at a better rate, and then the last 4 weeks, adaptation has occured and it tapered off some. Also, I'm still utilizing some muscle memory. Still working back from the knee injury. I can see you are a fan of the conjugate method. Nothing wrong with that friend.



Yeah adaptation does happen. Good thing is you seem to have pinpointed one thing that works with the higher reps. So, that can definitely be added back in when you feel you're ready. 

I've studied some of Mike T's stuff in the past and he was a big believer in front Squats to help build. Dan Green was as well in his old training logs. So, blocks with those should suffice if you dial the intensity properly. And yes conjugate is my preferred training method, and has been for quite some time. 



Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> What level do you suspend the good morning at? And with what? Safety bars?



Yes off the pins if you're in a rack. Off the straps/chains if you're using a mono. With the bar sitting on the safety bars, I like the bar height to be right at belly button height. Biggest thing with these is to get the stretch, and sit back into your hamstrings, and not Squat these up or down. A big help is getting an Incline bench set about 45° or so, and having it behind you. That way when you sit back properly, your hamstring/glute area will hit the back of the headrest. 

Side note with the knee issue, whatever you've done in the past seems to have worked. So, I wouldn't deviate much at all if you still do active recovery or anything to keep it up to strength.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

I might try to work some of these in. I know from past experience heavy heavy good mornings felt pretty sketchy to me. I've also read some people saying to do them more in a five to six range. What kind of parameters do you usually load? I know getting better at things you suck at pretty much always yields results.


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## Metalhead1 (Apr 2, 2021)

Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> I might try to work some of these in. I know from past experience heavy heavy good mornings felt pretty sketchy to me. I've also read some people saying to do them more in a five to six range. What kind of parameters do you usually load? I know getting better at things you suck at pretty much always yields results.



They get sketchy as hell real quick if you're not careful. I typically stay in the 5 range on work sets. Usually 3 x 5, or 5 x 5. Either Ssb or Cambered bar preferably, and sometimes with chains for a little more variation. 

I've done them with a belt, and without, and I personally prefer a Belt. When I Squat heavy its with a belt. So, practicing the muscle memory to tighten abs, and obliques into the belt never hurts.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

True on that. Think I will plug em in as my main squat accessory. Also thanks Bad Leroy, missed your reply a second ago. I have a 14" box I use sometimes, but not for a while. It is dead nuts parallel for me. Might make me a high and a low one. These are all good ideas. I should have mentioned that I have trained conjugate style before, and it did alright, but I also learned the hard way that I need specificity too in order to progress. I.e. getting good at a board press is only useful if it carries over to your bench. So I guess the key for me is to add in variety without straying too far from the actual power lifts. When I first tried it I think I tried to use something more set up for a multi-ply lifter. I have no interest in training with gear so I definitely need to make sure everything I program carries over to a raw squat. Nowadays I have to couple that with how much abuse my knee can take before it feels like somebody roundhoused me in it. The joys of getting old eh?


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

Honestly after I had the surgery, I told myself if I could just hit 315 on the squat again I would be happy. You all know how that goes. I can't count how many times I've said if I just hit x on whatever lift I can die a happy man. The grass is truly always greener on the other side.


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## Metalhead1 (Apr 2, 2021)

Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> True on that. Think I will plug em in as my main squat accessory. Also thanks Bad Leroy, missed your reply a second ago. I have a 14" box I use sometimes, but not for a while. It is dead nuts parallel for me. Might make me a high and a low one. These are all good ideas. I should have mentioned that I have trained conjugate style before, and it did alright, but I also learned the hard way that I need specificity too in order to progress. I.e. getting good at a board press is only useful if it carries over to your bench. So I guess the key for me is to add in variety without straying too far from the actual power lifts. When I first tried it I think I tried to use something more set up for a multi-ply lifter. I have no interest in training with gear so I definitely need to make sure everything I program carries over to a raw squat. Nowadays I have to couple that with how much abuse my knee can take before it feels like somebody roundhoused me in it. The joys of getting old eh?



The box is a great tool to use, but I don't mention it all the time for that exact reason. Some people just need the repetition of the main movements to stay consistent with them. 

Box Squats can be used sparingly in the off-season before any prep starts if it doesn't hinder your Squat movement.


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## BrotherIron (Apr 2, 2021)

Metalhead1 said:


> The box is a great tool to use, but I don't mention it all the time for that exact reason. Some people just need the repetition of the main movements to stay consistent with them.
> 
> Box Squats can be used sparingly in the off-season before any prep starts if it doesn't hinder your Squat movement.



Or squat more than 1x week and make the 2nd squat a variation... ie. box, front, high bar, paused, etc.


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## Metalhead1 (Apr 2, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> Or squat more than 1x week and make the 2nd squat a variation... ie. box, front, high bar, paused, etc.



Usually the case absolutely. I'm basing it off my training partner's inability to carry over from box to free. It ****s his form up even squatting twice a week over the past year almost. Mostly mental in his case. 

With JumpinJack here, I'm just being cautious with his mention of an acl tear in the past few years. Hard to say if 2x a week would be beneficial or a hindrance with the wear and tear he's already accumulated in his knee.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

Yeah I considered that as well. I did sheiko for a little bit pre injury and it did me right, but I don't know how well that sort of volume would be tolerated. I could probably do the second session at like a max of rpe 8.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

I really loved squatting that much. Nothing makes me feel alive like walking with peg legs


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## snake (Apr 2, 2021)

Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> It's always nice to pick someone's brain about lifting imo, and all my friends just get bored to tears when I talk about this stuff.



Bro, it's a breath of fresh air for me to talk training with a guy who doesn't see the answer to a problem is to throw gear at it.

You want to build your squats and develop some leg size? Take up long distance running. Da fuuk! You want a better squat? Squat! You want to squat more? Squat more! You want better leg development? Again, squat! You see the link here? I'm telling you from experience, it's that simple but it's that hard. You need to leave it all in the squat rack. There is no, "Then after squats I'll do (fill in the blank)" 

Now how do we go about this? First off, only you know the limitations of that ACL so use your head. Here's what I would recommend. Legs once a week. Make sure the day before legs is your off day. That mean off, no working out and no damn cardio. Pick the one day you have the most energy to Squat and that's the day you do your legs every week. As for reps and sets, you can mix it up but I would run 5 sets of 6-8 reps with each set getting a little heavier up to the 4th set. 1st set of 8 should feel like you have 4 more left in the tank. The 4th set is all you got. The last set is to empty the tank so drop down to the weight you used on the 1st set, even lighter if you feel you can't get 8.

I would also consider buying some light knee wraps. Inzer Iron Wrap Z is a good middle of the road wrap. Wrap them lightly until you get use to the feel and know you will need to start light with the weight until you get your groove. 

Sooner or later you're going to hit the wall. The next move is to add in some 1/4 squats after you are done squatting. This is not a every workout thing. You add them in to break through a plateau and only for about 4-5 weeks. These reps are low; 3 sets of 4 reps and the weight should be more than that nasty 4 set of squats.

Bar location; pick one and stay with it. You don't need your body changing how the muscles engage, especially when the weights get heavy. Low bar is best if you can.

Finally, never have a bad workout. If people can set themselves up for failure, they can set themselves up for success. And never, I mean never miss a workout. It kills me when guys don't get into the gym for whatever reason.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

Currently using old blue rehband 7mm knee sleeves and an Inzer forever belt. As far as post op limitations, it's weird man. I have no fear of going heavy and it doesn't affect my form. But I've learned as I've gotten older the difference between pushing through the pain(soreness, doms) and being a retard(overdoing it and my knee swelling and aching for 4 days). It's a fine line because I'm my head i feel like a pussy if I don't take everything to failure. In my brain though I've figured out that this only gratifies my ego short term, and sometimes holding back a little and recovering works better for me. I definitely wrestle with that.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

L
Finally, never have a bad workout. If people can set themselves up for failure, they can set themselves up for success. And never, I mean never miss a workout. It kills me when guys don't get into the gym for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]

I have my own weights and rack so that is flat out not an option.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

Ok I obvious suck at this. Tried to use your quote but botched it lol.


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## snake (Apr 2, 2021)

Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> L
> Finally, never have a bad workout. If people can set themselves up for failure, they can set themselves up for success. And never, I mean never miss a workout. It kills me when guys don't get into the gym for whatever reason.
> I have my own weights and rack so that is flat out not an option









Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> Ok I obvious suck at this. Tried to use your quote but botched it lol.



It's ok. We know what you meant. 

Brother, I have given you all you need. You can repay me by crushing that shit in the gym!


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 2, 2021)

Thanks for that. Everyone's timely and informed advice is appreciated. I'll post what I come up with.

Btw Snake, when you said "throw gear at it" as a solution to problems, are you talking like squat suits or like "dat der cell tek?" Lol


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 3, 2021)

Alright. Sat down and really thought through my template. Analyzed the input of this forum, reread through my logs from the last 4 months, and structured my first 4 week microcycle. I know the basic RTS micro consists of 3 weeks volume/3 weeks intensity, but I have noticed that week 2 of a volume or intensity block I tend to peak out, so shorter blocks typically work better for me. Here's my layout.

Saturday- Main bench
Paused bench(main movement)
Close grip bench(assistance)
DB military press(shoulder rep work)
DB rows(lats)

Sunday- Squat/Deadlift supplement
Squat+mini bands- main
Suspended good mornings- DL assistance
Squats for reps(8s, maybe 10s, maybe add an amrap set, do this one by feel 
Weighted crunches

Tuesday- Bench assistance
Bench Blokz 2 board press- main
Close grip BB 3 board press- assistance
DB extensions- rep work for triceps
Weighted pullups

Wednesday- Deadlift/squat supplement
Sumo pulls from blocks- main
Box squat- squat assistance
Conventional DL for reps(5s-8s)
DB knee raises

Thanks for the great suggestions for the squat movements. I've interwoven them in to this template, along with things that have been notably helping move my numbers along. I generally do something like the board presses/accomodating resistance for a 4 week blocks, then do something more akin to raw benching, full ROM, like DB bench. I'll run this and be able to formula a good transition to the next cycle within a week or 2. Thanks everyone. Time to get to work.


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## snake (Apr 3, 2021)

Jumpinjakflash77 said:


> Thanks for that. Everyone's timely and informed advice is appreciated. I'll post what I come up with.
> 
> Btw Snake, when you said "throw gear at it" as a solution to problems, are you talking like squat suits or like "dat der cell tek?" Lol


Gear= PEDs. The other stuff is equipment.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 3, 2021)

Thought that's what you meant. Regardless of usage or abstinence, one still must actually formulate a plan and then execute said plan to see results. I remember within like 6 months of joining a gym some high school kids saw me deadlifting something basic, like maybe 315x5, and asking me what I was on, and where they could get some. I laughed and said creatine, GNC. Lol. Everyone wants a short cut. Still have to put in the work whether you're a freshman football player or Jay Cutler.


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## snake (Apr 4, 2021)

One other thing, squat only once a week. That will have someone's panties in a bunch!


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 4, 2021)

Someone doing Sheiko? Lol

I loved squatting 3x a week. Of course it was mostly 75-80%. It'll put some hair on your chest.


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## Jumpinjakflash77 (Apr 4, 2021)

So did the squat workout today. Suspended good mornings were nice. I appreciate that one. I always find myself turning good mornings into a squat morning, so that was a great way to make them more honest. I like it.


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## Trendkill (Jun 8, 2021)

As others have said good mornings are awesome to build the squat. Do the arch back variety and use a fairly wide stance. This places all the stress on the hips and hamstrings. This will help get you in better position coming out of the hole and help you save a bad squat if you get too far forward. I like to do these suspended from chains for a 1RM with the bar either 42” or 46” off the ground. This height is relative. I’m 6’3” for context. I also do these for reps as an accessory movement but I don’t do them out of the chains and I don’t do more than 5 reps. Usually 3x5 working up to top heavy set of 5.


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## P2rl- (Jun 8, 2021)

If the stability is 100, then go to the gym and never skip workout.


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## Trump (Jun 8, 2021)

thanks for that 



P2rl- said:


> If the stability is 100, then go to the gym and never skip workout.


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## ATLRigger (Jun 9, 2021)

snake said:


> One other thing, squat only once a week. That will have someone's panties in a bunch!


I squat 8 days a week.  I’m not trying to have chicken legs for the rest of my life.


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## BrotherIron (Jun 9, 2021)

ATLRigger said:


> I squat 8 days a week.  I’m not trying to have chicken legs for the rest of my life.



You squat more than 1x a day?  More isn't always better.  My legs are one of my best bodyparts, and I only train legs 2x week.  You can train correctly and EAT if you want to grow.


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## CJ (Jun 9, 2021)

^^^^^^  someone didn't get the joke. :32 (20):



ATLRigger said:


> I squat 8 days a week.  I’m not trying to have chicken legs for the rest of my life.


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## BrotherIron (Jun 9, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> ^^^^^^  someone didn't get the joke. :32 (20):



I did not.  These days every kid seems to be doing some retarded SMOLOV, squat everyday, stupid program and then they whine b/c they eat like birds and have #2 pencils for legs.

Just getting grumpy in my old age, lol.

Easiest way to get big legs....add weights to the bar till it bends and NO half reps.


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## ATLRigger (Jun 9, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> I did not.  These days every kid seems to be doing some retarded SMOLOV, squat everyday, stupid program and then they whine b/c they eat like birds and have #2 pencils for legs.
> 
> Just getting grumpy in my old age, lol.
> 
> Easiest way to get big legs....add weights to the bar till it bends and NO half reps.


I study ur old posts and try to do half of those workouts. Recipes for success, thank u!


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## BrotherIron (Jun 10, 2021)

ATLRigger said:


> I study ur old posts and try to do half of those workouts. Recipes for success, thank u!



I'm glad I can pay it forward.  I'm going add some new combinations to my training here soon for hypertrophy.  Going to put more in for size and just not focus in on strength.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

Chain suspended GM's and Zercher are 2 great 2nd movements or alternative to main movements.

Romanian Deadlifts a good 3rd movement

GHR and Reverse Hyper are great finishing movements

There are several things bur some are staples 

Box Squats with depth changes are huge.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

Also Specialty Bars are amazing to use.


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## Jin (Jun 10, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Also Specialty Bars are amazing to use.



Heavy squats with an Earthquake bar!!!


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## eazy (Jun 10, 2021)

snake said:


> One other thing, squat only once a week. That will have someone's panties in a bunch!



I prepare to chime in. I read all the comments first. I get reminded I don't actually know what I'm talking about and should just keep reading.


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## SFGiants (Jun 10, 2021)

Jin said:


> Heavy squats with an Earthquake bar!!!



I have been under a squat during a quake once, didn't phase me until I racked it lol.


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## ATLRigger (Jun 11, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Chain suspended GM's and Zercher are 2 great 2nd movements or alternative to main movements.
> 
> Romanian Deadlifts a good 3rd movement
> 
> ...


Scream with the zerchers or the reps don’t count. Ah!


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## BrotherIron (Jun 11, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> Also Specialty Bars are amazing to use.



That's the only way us old farts can still push.  Using a straight bar only kills you quicker than anything.


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## Trendkill (Jun 13, 2021)

Safety squat bar does a damn nice job trying to kill you quicker too.


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