# What compound to use at the end?



## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

Debating on what compound to use at the end of a test/deca cycle with a 4 week helladrol kickstart.  Basically looking at this:

Week 1-4: Helladrol
Week 1-10: Test
Week 1-8: Deca
Week 9-12: ????

I'm thinking weeks 9-12 just doing more helladrol, but have epi, SD, and DMZ as well.  I'm 6 weeks in today, halfway done, and up about 18 pounds, but my gains have slowed way up ever since stopping the helladrol.  I basically put on 15 pounds in 4 weeks, then only 3 more the last two weeks.  I'm hoping to finish up at week 12 with about +25 pounds...

I can also get the standard orals (winny, tbol, dbol, var, etc), but where I get them is PRICEY, and I have a good stock of PH's I need to start burning up.


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## Four1Thr33 (Sep 19, 2012)

I personally wouldn't do two orals, I would finish with prop so u can get into pct faster


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## Four1Thr33 (Sep 19, 2012)

And I would extend that cycle.  Not enough time for deca to really work for ya
My personal would be 
Test 1-16
Prop17-18
Deca 1-16

That's just what I would do for lengths.  In sure everyone's different


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## AndroSport (Sep 19, 2012)

IMO stay away from PH crap... benefits vs rewards are not there. What your stating here makes it look different but they are not hormones they are PRO-hormones and therefore not as effective. Yet they shut you down hard. I just know too many people who have had their natural levels messed up by this thinking they are safer etc.

Stick with the standards for kickstarts and finishers... dbol/var/drol 

There are a thousand reasons why you may have stopped gaining. #1 reason is usually people don't take into account they need to be increasing their caloric intake substantially  for putting on X number of lbs and they keep it the same wondering why they don't continue to grow.

Review everything and maybe post up your diet or PM spongy for a peek at least he can tell you whether it needs adjusting or not. Before / after the 14lb gain would be a good thing to compare


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

My diet is pretty simple.

Breakfast: 6 Egg whites, Oats, nuts, and a banana (almost every single day)
Lunch: Two chicken breasts, rice/potato, veggies (or something similar)
Dinner: Beef or Fish (grilled), rice/potato, veggies

I also have a shake between meals (30gm pro, 20gm carb, 5gm fat), and 20-30 grams of casein before bed.

Total is about 250-300 / 300-400 / 100 pro/carb/fat, which is around 3500 calories.  I was around 3000 the first 4 weeks, but upped it the last couple of weeks after growth slowed.  If I go out to eat, which I do on occasion for work, I still stick with the basic formula of meat/carb/veggie.

I'm around 193 @ upper single digit bodyfat. 8% maybe.  I've been down in the upper 5.x% bodyfat range, and haven't been at 10% or over in years.  I am definitely at the limit of being able to stay single digit bodyfat diet wise with this diet, but I sort of hate that I'm not blowing up too.  I know, it's hard to have both.

But anyway, back to the question... out of these, what would you use?  epi, hd, sd, or dmz?

I've use var and winstrol, and right now I'm looking to try other things.


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

AndroSport said:


> IMO stay away from PH crap... benefits vs rewards are not there. What your stating here makes it look different but they are not hormones they are PRO-hormones and therefore not as effective. Yet they shut you down hard. I just know too many people who have had their natural levels messed up by this thinking they are safer etc.
> 
> Stick with the standards for kickstarts and finishers... dbol/var/drol
> 
> ...



I know about being shut down, but I've always recovered well.  Last blood test was over 900 ng/dl, following a 9 month run of test at 150mg/week.  Was using for recovery purposes while racing bikes.


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## gymrat827 (Sep 19, 2012)

add var if anything at the end.  8wks of deca is pointless.  12wks min IMO.  also take the tes to 14wks.


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## Four1Thr33 (Sep 19, 2012)

Who ever did yiur body fat is wrong.  I'm about positive u never seen 5%.  U would not be alive


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## Four1Thr33 (Sep 19, 2012)

And at 193 and an est 10% body fat u should have 4k cal area
I weight 185 and have a 14% and consume 3500


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

Guess I need to post some pics.  I've been at 5.7 for sure. I was 159-160.  Didn't look healthy.

I had veins in my legs and I was showing ribcage lol.  Straight up concentration camp look.  I was riding up to 300miles a week and eating almost nothing.

And I'm not 10% now. Lower than that.  Again I can post some current pics.  Maybe I should snap some tonight...


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

This was probably 3 months after I stopped racing, and had filled back in some.  This was probably 7% bf at this point, and weighed 165 or so.


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## Jada (Sep 19, 2012)

5% u would look fkin retarded


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## Jada (Sep 19, 2012)

Yo what's Sup with that George bush trail) ) WTF!!


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## coltmc4545 (Sep 19, 2012)

ripped_one said:


> This was probably 3 months after I stopped racing, and had filled back in some.  This was probably 7% bf at this point, and weighed 165 or so.
> 
> View attachment 306



You're actually probably closer to 9% in that pic. 

Ok, your deca length, you're waisting your money running it that short. Get another vial or 2 and extend it to 14 week MINIMUM. Hell I wouldn't even run NPP 8 weeks. 2. Up your cals. And not by drinking 3 or more shakes a day. Eat whole foods. Shakes are garbage and you're not gonna grow drinking meal replacement shakes all day. Won't happen. 3. Fuck pro hormones. 4. Run some var at the end after you do everything I listed above. A 14-16 week cycle of deca and you should have no problem gaining 25lbs if you eat, not drink your food, but eat good, and get plenty of rest. 5. Buy a trimmer and trim that Forrest a little bit.


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## 63Vette (Sep 19, 2012)

There is so much wrong with this I don't know how to help. I will give you free advice:

Stay away from pro hormones.
You cannot gain 15 lbs in four weeks unless it is water and fat and maybe 1 lb. Of muscle.
You cannot gain 25 lbs in 12 weeks either ^^^^ see above ^^^^
If you want to run test and deca i suggest you kick start it with dbol the first 4 weeks.
Running deca for 8 weeks is a waste of time.  Run deca for 14 weeks or longer.

Maybe you can end your current cycle, tell us what your history and experience is with AAS, and ask for suggestions on what appears to be a bulking cycle.

Diet, hydration, rest, workout routine and intensity are all way ahead of AAS for accomplishing a physique you can be proud of. 

That's just one old man's opinion young blood,

Respect,
Vette


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## Jada (Sep 19, 2012)

Lmfao colt ) ) hahahahaha


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

coltmc4545 said:


> You're actually probably closer to 9% in that pic.



My gf and i (we're married now) were fishing at our land, I had eaten about half a dozen pancakes... I think the night before I had eaten burgers we grilled. I was bloated, sure, but still had veins in my legs, arms, ribs, etc.  Oh, and being drunk for two straight days didn't help either lol.

And yea, the hair is gone, but I'm thinking about letting it come back... my wife says she likes a little more hair...


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

Digging through old photos is fun... Sorry, these aren't bb'ing related, just for fun.  Sold that boat last year and haven't replaced it, gotta get on that this winter.


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

Jadakiss said:


> Yo what's Sup with that George bush trail) ) WTF!!



Awesome right?? I figure if I can't grow a beard, grow a trail!


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## ripped_one (Sep 19, 2012)

63Vette said:


> There is so much wrong with this I don't know how to help. I will give you free advice:
> 
> Stay away from pro hormones.
> You cannot gain 15 lbs in four weeks unless it is water and fat and maybe 1 lb. Of muscle.
> ...



Appreciated vette...

My history is something like this:

2000: State champ swimmer in highschool, lifted weights for fitness, all natural, 180lbs
2001-2004: Collegiate swimmer (1 year), got into cycling, dropped to 165lbs
2005-2007: Got into bb'ing, went from 165 to 205, did a few PH cycles (SD, Phera, bold200), and a cycle of test with winny and var mixed in.
2007-2010: Back into cycling, made it to Cat 1, picked up on decent amateur team, quit after 2010 season (was on 150mg test for 9 months, and EPO the last 3 months), weighed about 159-160, lab tested vo2 max of 69, FTP over 5w/kg, yea, I was good.
2010-2012: stop racing, got into running, ran some 16:xx 5k's, lifted off and on, weight would fluxuate from 165-180 (the pics above are at one of my peaks of lifting) because of work, travel, etc.  Started one cycle of test, but ended it after we started to try to get pregnant (sperm count was too low).  Took almost a year and a half to get pregnant.  Started a cycle back up after all the tests came back ok on the kid, and here I am, 6 weeks into this cycle.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to accomplish on this cycle, other than to get bigger, stronger, stay lean, etc.  I don't want to bulk per say, as I still like to go out an run, ride, swim, ski, hike, climb, take my motorcycle to track days, etc.  Yea, honestly, 160lbs would probably be better for all of that, but I also like having some mass with it, so 200-210 or so, if it's LEAN, is manageable for me.


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## Lulu66 (Sep 19, 2012)

I like opening and closing cycles with short esthers. Npp ot test prop. I wont tell u var because u already have an oral in there.


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## AndroSport (Sep 22, 2012)

I hope you have at least reached a sensible verdict on the PH stuff after all that. Many of us have been doing it for a while here (Both AAS and competitive "stuff") and PH's just don't hold a candle to the good effects of AAS and they can also really mess w/ HPTA.

I have some friends with your body style... probable more naturally leaning toward the larger of the pics you showed but you could certainly get yourself into the 210+ range and still be agile enough to do what you need to do. I wouldn't say that if you were competing in cycling or cross country or anything of that nature but i have been over 275 Lbs with BF fluctuating from 10-12% and was as flexible and nimble as many gymnasts (still am very flexible) and could run a 40 yd dash right around 4.70-4.75 seconds. At the time i was competitive in sports and while I wasn't supposed to be doing a lot of the other recreational stuff like snowboarding, surfing, wake boarding, mountain biking, dirt bikes etc I certainly could and did so very easily. So... what i mean here is don't be scared to put on some weight that your tendon / ligature can handle. You will certainly still be able to do all those things you like to do, you will be able to do them well and all while looking like a fucking stud.

Good to see you skiing questions and taking advice though... glad to have you on the board bro.


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