# A different view of Westside



## ToolSteel (Dec 26, 2015)

Stumbled upon this article while doing some of my typical wormhole research. I'd really like to hear the thoughts/responses of the experience PLers here. 

http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2015/09/22/reflections-on-westside/

It's a bit of a read, but interesting.


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## HydroEJP88 (Dec 26, 2015)

I read it, pretty interesting. 

I'm not sure what to think about it though because I really don't know too awful much about Westside to be honest with ya.

Sounds like it's a free for all almost every day


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## ToolSteel (Dec 26, 2015)

Damn near 500 views and one reply lol. Figured this would be a hot topic. 

Personally the part about bands and chains makes perfect sense.


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## HydroEJP88 (Dec 26, 2015)

Glad I could help out with the reply lmao


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 26, 2015)

I've always thought Westside was more suited to equipped lifting. I think it can be tailored to raw lifting with some changes.


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## Strength athlete (Dec 26, 2015)

I'll do a write up on it tonight when I get back from work. This has been a topic of hot debate for many years in the strength community. I'll put my 2 cents in when I'm back home and have access to my literature. I want to give credit to where it is do when referencing quotes and research findings.


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## Milo (Dec 26, 2015)

My thing is that I think it's for experienced lifters. If you're new to comp squatting, benching, and pulling like me, I think these lifts should be performed at least weekly. What good am I helping my squat if I only comp squat like once every 6 weeks? This is why in think its for advanced lifters- they already have their form and technique on point so they can get away with never specifically doing it.


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## Strength athlete (Dec 29, 2015)

I have read through much of the westside training methods, and have even utilized the style of training for a short period time. I would like to say that I am in no way against the style of training, and the ideology that they use. The system of training has produced a large number of terrific strength athletes throughout the world, both under the direct supervision of Louie Simmons, and self-taught individuals practicing his principles. I will also omit a few of the common debates that always seem to arise when speaking of his system. (Arguments concerning the use of pharmacology playing a part in the systems success, use of multi-ply equipment advancing gains, etc. are topics that could be endlessly debated).  It is also impossible to cover all topics of his training system, unless I wished to write a small book, and that is not something that I wish to do. 
I am familiar with the general training concepts under the Westside system, and as the article stated, much of Louie’s training concepts have come from the interpretation, and the teachings of Russian texts. I have read many of the various Soviet texts, and research findings that he has based much of his system off of, and I will say that his interpretations are interesting to say the least. 

Quoting Yuri Verkhoshansky : “ The main goal of sports training is to improve the athletes performance in competition (to increase the working effect of the competition exercise). Competition exercises, in every sports discipline, are complex motor actions having a highly defined motor structure, the performance of which requires a motor skill. Therefore, the training process can be seen as a process of improving an athlete’s skilled motor function. Improving the skilled motor function is usually seen as the process of motor learning: acquisition of skills, and the control of movements, or as the pedagogical process of motor learning. However, sports activities, especially in elite sports, facilitate the maximal exertion of the human motor function. For this reason, in order to improve an athletes sport results, it is necessary not only to improve their level of skill acquisition, but also to increase the functional power of the body.(motor potential).

When viewing the Westside methods, and its “conjugate system”, at the surface it appears to cover the above stated aspects of training, and should result in a very high cumulative training effect, and an ideal system for advanced level lifters. However when we look at the system closer, we can see deviation from how the conjugate system was actually first defined, and implemented.  The training methods in Westside are more accurately defined as concurrent periodization. (Attempting to improve all qualities in a single mesocycle). For those who are interested in understanding the concept of the conjugate system, I have provided the link below. It is a lengthy read, but very well worth it, and by the end you should have a firm understanding of the conjugated modeling system. 

In Westside programming, multiple qualities are trying to be improved upon. Dynamic effort, Max effort, Repetition method, and GPP are all being utilized in a single mesocycle.  If you continually tried to improve upon all qualities simultaneously, the amount of work it would require would outstrip your ability to recover. This is where the “assistance” would come in to continue to allow progression through added recovery abilities. It is known that concurrent periodization is limited in its ability to produce results in high level athletes, and inferior to other training protocols that are available. Does the Westside method work? Of course it does, but to what degree, and for how long? After all, nearly all programs will work for a period of time as it will be a new training stimulus. I just do not believe it is the most ideal system for higher level athletes.


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## Strength athlete (Dec 29, 2015)

Milo said:


> My thing is that I think it's for experienced lifters. If you're new to comp squatting, benching, and pulling like me, I think these lifts should be performed at least weekly. What good am I helping my squat if I only comp squat like once every 6 weeks? This is why in think its for advanced lifters- they already have their form and technique on point so they can get away with never specifically doing it.



That is another issue that I do not understand about the program being marketed toward high level lifters. In elite level athletes, the sporting form is of the utmost importance. Many years have been taken to improve their lifts to a mastery level. Physiological systems, and neurological pathways have been trained to allow the high level of performance. Sporting form will begin to degrade when the athlete does not perform the competition movements for extended periods of time, yet this is exactly what they do at Westside. Performing the competition movements regularly is just as important, if not MORE important than a lower level lifter.


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## ToolSteel (Dec 29, 2015)

Very interesting. Thanks!


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## TXBenchMonster (May 3, 2016)

I'd say this fella has a bit of a point where RAW vs geared lifters benefitting less or more from Westside methodologies are concerned, but I lift in a shirt, so I'm fine with that trade off. 

As far as not enough volume, the dude is dead wrong in a couple of different ways, one of which was noted in the article itself. He neglected to recognize that the accessory work is volume, while at the same time complaining about the high volume of the accessory work. The second and more important place he overlooks volume is that when you are in a room full of 600+ lb bencher and 800+ lb squatters and pullers, you are looking at guys who are doing sets of ten with a bar, then five to ten with 135, 5 to ten at 185, 3-5 at 225, 3 at 275, 3 at 315, 3 at 365, 3 at 405, then probably starting singles around 455, 495, 545, 685, up to a max single jumping 20-50 lbs or so each set until a max is hit on whatever that day's max effort exercise was. 

To work up to 500, 600, 700+ in a bench, and up to and over 1,000 lbs in a squat, which happens regularly at Westside, requires a shit ton of volume just to get to the maximal weights involved. 

Best gains I've ever made were via Westside/conjugate training method, going from a 355 bench my first meet to 565 exactly 3 years later in the same meet, so I might be a little biased.


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## Dakinilvr (Jan 14, 2017)

Westside conjugate is not concurrent periodization. What they are calling the conjugate system is basically taken from Bondarchuk's Principle of Conjugated Training effects. To say Bondarchuk is wrong is preposterous.
That review is completely useless.  If you are too dumb to read and comprehend a corner stone text of strength and conditioning like Science and Practice of Strength Training then you have no business doing a review. To me what I read when someone says they can't understand a book like that is they don't read books, period. 
The problem is ultimately that smart people don't tend to get into strength and conditioning. It tends to be overloaded with not so smart people that can't comprehend what the smart people are doing. 
To say training strength-speed and speed-strength has anything to do with wearing a bench shirt or not is just ****ing dumb. If you think that then of course you are not going to understand the reason for using accommodating resistance and that it has nothing to do with duplicating the strength curve of a bench shirt. Using bands and chains is because you are getting rid of the bar deceleration that is going to occur when moving the bar at the right meters/sec to train strength-speed and speed-strength. Otherwise the top part of the lift is spent slowing the bar down or else you would be throwing the bar.
I don't lift in gear but I just don't understand what people think that a bench shirt and squat suit are doing. It changes the strength curve of the lift but IT IS STILL THE SAME LIFT. You would think putting on a bench shirt changes the event from the 100m sprint to the 400m hurdle they way things are discussed online. 
There is just so much training information noise or training information garbage online because meatheads don't want to read books let alone actual research papers.


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## Milo (Jan 14, 2017)

This I believe is a more scientific approach to a critique of West Side.
Also saying "smart people don't lift and people who lift don't reed so gewd" is ****ing stupid. You sound like an ass and you give yourself too much credit.


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