# first cycle; test only vs test + dbol?



## UrogenitalSubsect (Nov 30, 2017)

Just wondering what is everyone's opinion to a test only first cycle vs a test + dbol first cycle. I'm asking this because the wiki on the steroids subreddit recommends a Test E only cycle, with the main purpose being you can set a baseline for how just testosterone reacts with your body, so if something goes wrong, you know it's the test E, not the other anabolics you may be using. Also, test alone has pretty easily recognizable and manageable side effects, while adding orals can lead to different effects (such as the liver damage possible). 

What is everyone's thoughts on a first cycle, should it be test only or test+dbol? 

Also wondering why test prop is used vs test E.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Nov 30, 2017)

Enathanate* my bad


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## NbleSavage (Nov 30, 2017)

I personally don't think ye need DBol as part of yer first exposure to exogenous hormones and would tell ye to run Test only. 

As per Test prop vs Test E or C, yer just dealing with different esters which will manage how slowly / quickly the Test is absorbed.

FWIW, I'd start with Test E and pin it 2x weekly - some folks get PIP with Test Prop.

A good sticky HERE, skip the DBol advice and take a good read at the PCT & make sure ye have all yer supplies in hand before yer first pin.

Cheers,

- Savage


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## motown1002 (Nov 30, 2017)

Nble said it my friend.  Test ONLY for your first cycle.


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## Seeker (Nov 30, 2017)

Haha you pretty much answered your own questions.


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## ECKSRATED (Nov 30, 2017)

No need for dbol on your first run. Test only.


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## Hurt (Nov 30, 2017)

Test only. I did test and dbol my first cycle and there were certain effects that I could not attribute to one drug or the other since I’d taken them both. Best to add one new compound each time so you know where sides are coming from. For a first cycle definitely go with a long ester. Pinning eod with test prop isn’t very fun. 400-500mg of test e per week with proper food, training, and rest will be all that is needed for a first cycle.


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## PillarofBalance (Nov 30, 2017)

Nevermind you are 19. Can't help ya. Sorry bro.


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## Jin (Nov 30, 2017)

I would recommend staying PED free until you are older and have more gym time under your belt.


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## Hurt (Nov 30, 2017)

I thought he already said he was waiting? I get al these young guys confused. Yes, wait. Once you’re in your 20’s and ready to use gear, test only.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 1, 2017)

Hurt said:


> I thought he already said he was waiting? I get al these young guys confused. Yes, wait. Once you’re in your 20’s and ready to use gear, test only.



Just looking for more information regarding this, as I noticed the discrepancy between the advice I've read elsewhere and what I saw in the stickied post. Don't plan on hopping on yet, just trying to get those differences I found clarified, and it seems everybody agrees that for a first cycle, test only is the best.


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## Hurt (Dec 1, 2017)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Just looking for more information regarding this, as I noticed the discrepancy between the advice I've read elsewhere and what I saw in the stickied post. Don't plan on hopping on yet, just trying to get those differences I found clarified, and it seems everybody agrees that for a first cycle, test only is the best.



Yes definitely test only.


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## ToolSteel (Dec 1, 2017)

Hell im well past my first cycle and I've gone back to test only. It's so nice and simple.


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## Chillinlow (Dec 1, 2017)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Just wondering what is everyone's opinion to a test only first cycle vs a test + dbol first cycle. I'm asking this because the wiki on the steroids subreddit recommends a Test E only cycle, with the main purpose being you can set a baseline for how just testosterone reacts with your body, so if something goes wrong, you know it's the test E, not the other anabolics you may be using. Also, test alone has pretty easily recognizable and manageable side effects, while adding orals can lead to different effects (such as the liver damage possible).
> 
> What is everyone's thoughts on a first cycle, should it be test only or test+dbol?
> 
> Also wondering why test prop is used vs test E.



May your age and you researching test its obvious you are interested but wait about ten years. At your age and buy your pic you already are packed full of enough nautical test, if your looking to get more size talk to a professional trainer who can help you plan a routine out for your goal. The right routine and diet and you'll get bigger in time. Already have a very solid base.


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 2, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Hell im well past my first cycle and I've gone back to test only. It's so nice and simple.



Test only for what a week? Maybe two? Lol


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## BigSwolePump (Dec 2, 2017)

Test is all that anyone ever really needs to get amazing results. Why even add anything else until you stop getting results with test only?


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## ToolSteel (Dec 2, 2017)

ECKSRATED said:


> Test only for what a week? Maybe two? Lol


I'm serious lol. A bangin frontload and I'm off like a rocket. I'm running a gram by itself for this prep.


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## MindlessWork (Dec 2, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Hell im well past my first cycle and I've gone back to test only. It's so nice and simple.



I find keeping things simple is best and I am just on my 2nd cycle and so far muuuuch better than my first one earlier this year. 600mg Test C a week with some var really helps, and I am 6 weeks in.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 3, 2017)

dbol test is a great first cycle...Once the dbol is over the test should be fully kickin..Its not as simple as a test only but much more effective and u still get a good idea how test works since its only the first 4 weeks..Can it fuk up your cycle ? yes it can but only if your a idiot and cant take a ai on time or do bloods


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## MindlessWork (Dec 3, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> dbol test is a great first cycle...Once the dbol is over the test should be fully kickin..Its not as simple as a test only but much more effective and u still get a good idea how test works since its only the first 4 weeks..Can it fuk up your cycle ? yes it can but only if your a idiot and cant take a ai on time or do bloods


I've had people tell me not to take dbol on my very first run earlier this year, but I may try it at some point whether as a kickstart or as a finisher.


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## Chaos501 (Dec 3, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Hell im well past my first cycle and I've gone back to test only. It's so nice and simple.



Man couldn’t agree more!!! I’m gaining more and my strength is amazing!! But I am running deca at 600 for my joints and a little extra gain.  But keeping it simple is amazing!!!


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 3, 2017)

Chaos501 said:


> Man couldn’t agree more!!! I’m gaining more and my strength is amazing!! But I am running deca at 600 for my joints and a little extra gain.  But keeping it simple is amazing!!!


600 is more then just for joints lol..100 is enough for joints..600 is get jacked dose


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## Chaos501 (Dec 3, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> 600 is more then just for joints lol..100 is enough for joints..600 is get jacked dose




Hey man I was trying to convince myself lmao!!!! 1g of test and 600 deca.... yea I guess your right but man my joints feel amazing!!!! LMFAO!!


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## jennerrator (Dec 3, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Nevermind you are 19. Can't help ya. Sorry bro.



no shit...WTF....I was just about to ask as I thought he was this young


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## Seeker (Dec 3, 2017)

He said he is not looking to run anything. He is researching and gathering information so that when and if he does in the future he will be prepared.  We should absolutely be offering up advice. He's in the right  place for it.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 3, 2017)

Seeker said:


> He said he is not looking to run anything. He is researching and gathering information so that when and if he does in the future he will be prepared.  We should absolutely be offering up advice. He's in the right  place for it.



Riiiiiight..... for "future reference"


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## Chillinlow (Dec 3, 2017)

Seeker said:


> He said he is not looking to run anything. He is researching and gathering information so that when and if he does in the future he will be prepared.  We should absolutely be offering up advice. He's in the right  place for it.



another thread says he's looking to gain like 30lbs and doesn't think he can do it naturally etc you get the point


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 3, 2017)

Chillinlow said:


> another thread says he's looking to gain like 30lbs and doesn't think he can do it naturally etc you get the point



Somebody else said that I should be able to hit 190 (~30lbs gain) and I said I didn't think that was achievable naturally because it doesn't.... never said I was going to hop on, just that what the other person said I should be able to do seems farfetched. NEVER did I say I would hop on gear in anytime soon, and I've stated my desire to wait multiple times now. I'm just trying to get some knowledge about steroid usage so that when I do decide to use them eventually (in who knows how long, but not soon), I have the appropriate knowledge to not mess myself up.

Also, notice how I never ask for sources or anything related to that, which is what the kids that don't know shit and want to hop on immediately do first things first.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 3, 2017)

Seeker said:


> He said he is not looking to run anything. He is researching and gathering information so that when and if he does in the future he will be prepared.  We should absolutely be offering up advice. He's in the right  place for it.



Exactly, if you look through my posting history you'll see that I directly state my desire to stay natty for atleast a few more years / I won't be hopping on anytime soon. I came here to gain some knowledge about bodybuilding, and one aspect of that is steroid usage. It just happens to be that part is the one I know the least about, which is why I'm asking about it.


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 4, 2017)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Somebody else said that I should be able to hit 190 (~30lbs gain) and I said I didn't think that was achievable naturally because it doesn't.... never said I was going to hop on, just that what the other person said I should be able to do seems farfetched. NEVER did I say I would hop on gear in anytime soon, and I've stated my desire to wait multiple times now. I'm just trying to get some knowledge about steroid usage so that when I do decide to use them eventually (in who knows how long, but not soon), I have the appropriate knowledge to not mess myself up.
> 
> Also, notice how I never ask for sources or anything related to that, which is what the kids that don't know shit and want to hop on immediately do first things first.



It's not far fetched at all. I started lifting and I was about 142 pounds at 5'8". I got up to 196 pounds NATURALLY before I touched a steroid. I stayed relatively lean too never over ~16% bf. That took me almost ten years to do, with a 2 year drug hiatus in there which put me back about 4 years worth of gains. Sooooo with that said it is not farfetched and easily attainable with hard work and dedication. Lift heavy eat your face off and grow like a week for the next five years. Then when u do decide to hop on some good old testosterone you'll blow the **** up even more.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 4, 2017)

ECKSRATED said:


> It's not far fetched at all. I started lifting and I was about 142 pounds at 5'8". I got up to 196 pounds NATURALLY before I touched a steroid. I stayed relatively lean too never over ~16% bf. That took me almost ten years to do, with a 2 year drug hiatus in there which put me back about 4 years worth of gains. Sooooo with that said it is not farfetched and easily attainable with hard work and dedication. Lift heavy eat your face off and grow like a week for the next five years. Then when u do decide to hop on some good old testosterone you'll blow the **** up even more.



That's what my plan was originally, and still is. I just hear often that "oh once you've been lifting for x amount of time (like 2-3 years +) you'll only gain a pound or two of muscle a year" so I was confused on how I'd be able to gain another 30 pounds with most of it hopefully being muscle. 

I'm not eating too much now (3100kcal) because I'm hoping to gain ~.5 pounds a week and that seems to be doing pretty good so far. I really just don't want  to put too much fat on, but I'm also worried about not eating enough.... It's a balancing act for sure...


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## ECKSRATED (Dec 4, 2017)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> That's what my plan was originally, and still is. I just hear often that "oh once you've been lifting for x amount of time (like 2-3 years +) you'll only gain a pound or two of muscle a year" so I was confused on how I'd be able to gain another 30 pounds with most of it hopefully being muscle.
> 
> I'm not eating too much now (3100kcal) because I'm hoping to gain ~.5 pounds a week and that seems to be doing pretty good so far. I really just don't want  to put too much fat on, but I'm also worried about not eating enough.... It's a balancing act for sure...



You'll figure it out. It's not hard. Calories in calories out. Keep getting stronger and watching the scale go up. That's all that matters. People make it harder than it really is.


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## Uncle manny (Dec 4, 2017)

I hate to say but just give it time bro. As you get older with training and proper nutrition the pounds and size will add up.


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## Jin (Dec 4, 2017)

I started taking gear when I was 240. You should do that.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 4, 2017)

Jin said:


> I started taking gear when I was 240. You should do that.



Just wondering, how tall are you? At my height 240lbs seems far fetched, but who knows, I could be wrong. My goal is 190/200 for now, which, at .5 pounds a week, should take a long while.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 4, 2017)

ECKSRATED said:


> You'll figure it out. It's not hard. Calories in calories out. Keep getting stronger and watching the scale go up. That's all that matters. People make it harder than it really is.



If I'm gaining weight (slightly, but still gaining) and not seeing that much strength gains, do you think it might be time to switch programs? Or maybe take a deload, I haven't done one of those in a long while. I'm currently running Layne Norton's PHAT but have thought about switching to something more strength orientated.


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## Hulkishebulk (Dec 4, 2017)

Trust the wiki. dbol is harsh, i brew oil injection dbol and it destroys my kidneys in about a week if i forget to take my supps, test doent do that form me neither tren or winnt my go to cycle.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 5, 2017)

Hulkishebulk said:


> Trust the wiki. dbol is harsh, i brew oil injection dbol and it destroys my kidneys in about a week if i forget to take my supps, test doent do that form me neither tren or winnt my go to cycle.


I'm a young gun, so it won't be a for a while anyways. I always planned on having my first cycle be just test anyways, but the post said test + dbol, so I was a tad confused. I'll definitely stick to just test when I hop on in 4-5 years or so.


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## Jin (Dec 5, 2017)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Just wondering, how tall are you? At my height 240lbs seems far fetched, but who knows, I could be wrong. My goal is 190/200 for now, which, at .5 pounds a week, should take a long while.



I'm 6'2. And I was mostly kidding.


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## Hulkishebulk (Dec 5, 2017)

Yup but im dbol is unnecessary id rather long ester tren harder gains just ast a much bulk and retain it longer.


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## Spongy (Dec 5, 2017)

Hulkishebulk said:


> Yup but im dbol is unnecessary id rather long ester tren harder gains just ast a much bulk and retain it longer.



it's his first cycle, he does not need to be taking tren.  Jesus.  especially a long ester.  

are you for real, a troll, or a shill?


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## Hulkishebulk (Dec 5, 2017)

I said me not him. I stated that thats what i would use, as in way before i even thought of dbol id use tren. Thats because it gives me less sides dbol= lethargy, brown urine, and back bloat/cramps for me on a tri tren sus 350 inj winny cycle i have been able to not use any support (not wise i know) and not have any sided but some insomnia and bloated feet when walking about a half mile or more. Btw i only use oil injections even for the dbol eo is the shhhh and it takes about a week instead of 3 days for the dbol to put me down. If you know the diffrence between the oral and injectable dbol that is?


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## Spongy (Dec 5, 2017)

you wwould use Tren before dbol?


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 5, 2017)

Spongy said:


> you wwould use Tren before dbol?



This is the same guy that recommended running a SARMs cycle to another teenager.... I wouldn't take anything he says too seriously tbh.


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## UrogenitalSubsect (Dec 5, 2017)

Jin said:


> I'm 6'2. And I was mostly kidding.



Ah okay, 240lbs would be amazing if I could get to it without looking like an obese oompa loompa.


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## Jin (Dec 5, 2017)

UrogenitalSubsect said:


> Ah okay, 240lbs would be amazing if I could get to it without looking like an obese oompa loompa.



Kidding as in actually suggesting you wait until 240. I was over 240 when I started AAS.


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## Hulkishebulk (Dec 5, 2017)

Are you guys seriously this jealous that you take my rep down. You are a bunch meat heads who will destroy peoples kidneys and liver, and this is why i never get into forums to much talk and not enough common sense.


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## Jin (Dec 5, 2017)

Hulkishebulk said:


> Trust the wiki. dbol is harsh, i brew oil injection dbol and it destroys my kidneys in about a week if i forget to take my supps, test doent do that form me neither tren or winnt my go to cycle.



How are you gauging your kidney function/health? 

As as far as I know It would have to be extremely acute (i.e. Kidneys starting to fail) for you to actually notice symptoms. 

Just curious. I've never given a second thought to my kidneys.....


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## Hulkishebulk (Dec 5, 2017)

Btw if you didn't read what i said i will reiterate. I never told him to take tren i said tht " i would take tren long before i took dbol". And sarms have proven to be a safe alternative  minus light supression. People strsight up told him to take tren and im getting flamed for saying sarms sre a safe alternative for A BEGINNER  to practice a bulk and cutting cycle on, gtfo youre  acting like information Nazis. Now im in the pink because you guys are salty.


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## Hulkishebulk (Dec 5, 2017)

I judge it off of my poop darkness and color of my urin and smell. i got off of  mini bulking cycle with liquid dbol early because of that fact and after about a week or two my urin became completly clear again and poop became long, light brown, and soft again.


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## Jin (Dec 5, 2017)

Hulkishebulk said:


> I judge it off of my poop darkness and color of my urin and smell. i got off of  mini bulking cycle with liquid dbol early because of that fact and after about a week or two my urin became completly clear again and poop became long, light brown, and soft again.



not sure if the poop has anything to do with kidneys or not, but unless there is blood in your urine I doubt there's anything to be overly concerned with: https://www.kidney.org/sites/default/files/11-10-1815_HBE_PatBro_Urinalysis_v6.pdf

Many guys have dark and strong smelling urine while running Tren for weeks at a time. And while there is some evidence that high dose of tren can have a negative impact on kidney function I don't see a reason why you need to worry while running a complied that creates similar effect. 

The only way to truly know how your kidneys are functioning is to have a urinalysis and do bloodwork.


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## ToolSteel (Dec 5, 2017)

Jin said:


> not sure if the poop has anything to do with kidneys or not, but unless there is blood in your urine I doubt there's anything to be overly concerned with: https://www.kidney.org/sites/default/files/11-10-1815_HBE_PatBro_Urinalysis_v6.pdf
> 
> Many guys have dark and strong smelling urine while running Tren for weeks at a time. And while there is some evidence that high dose of tren can have a negative impact on kidney function I don't see a reason why you need to worry while running a complied that creates similar effect.
> 
> The only way to truly know how your kidneys are functioning is to have a urinalysis and do bloodwork.


Jin, the kid thinks sarms have been proven safe. 

Save the science for people who actually have solid cognitive function.


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 5, 2017)

ToolSteel said:


> Jin, the kid thinks sarms have been proven safe.
> 
> Save the science for people who actually have solid cognitive function.



Yeah that's where I cut and ran too.


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## Dan.F (Jan 3, 2018)

Enanthate* prefer

For P and E, it seems the perks of E are:

-less injection(less pain)
-cheaper than P

Perks of P being
-less bloat.water retention
-faster results 
-if side effects arise you can stop, and Test P will be gone quickly from your system.(with Test E look forward to zits/hairloss for months after quiting)
-dosen't need to be cycled as long as Test E(great for short cycles)


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## Dan.F (Jan 3, 2018)

Why some words would be grey? 





Dan.F said:


> Enanthate* prefer
> 
> For P and E, it seems the perks of E are:
> 
> ...


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## Jin (Jan 3, 2018)

Dan.F said:


> Why some words would be grey?



Ban this guy already.


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## Chaos501 (Jan 7, 2018)

Agree with the others here. Test only for your first cycle. No need for anything else. You should Wait like you plan to it’s honestly the best idea. Learn more in the meantime and when your ready you’ll know exactly what to do.


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