# 1 year, 3 cycles, repeat.



## SAD

I've been meaning for a while to get this all written down, so here it is.  This is my plan for those of you who are starting out, or even if you've got a few cycles under your belt but aren't happy with your progress thus far.  It is designed to take one year at a time, squeeze three cycles in with appropriate recovery time, and maximize gains and retention of said gains.

This is designed for those of you who still cycle and are interested in recovering fully in between cycles.

Theory:  Back when I cycled, I found that the longer it took me to recover, the more gains I lost (obvious, right?).  So I became very interested in shorter cycles and utilizing them to achieve fast and quality gains, without shutting down too deep where recovery was a problem.  During this time, I also honed my frontloading skills so that even with semi-long esters, I was still making use of the first couple weeks of the cycle.  Keep in mind that, while I feel the time off between cycles is ample enough to recover fully, BLOODWORK is always going to be your only proven way to know for sure.  Also, VERY IMPORTANT!, build your cycles backwards in terms of what you buy.  I.e. - buy your PCT items first, HCG and on-cycle ancillaries second, gear third, and lastly your pins.


*January 1st - Cycle #1 - 10 weeks*

Week 1: 1200mgs/Test E first day (split up the sites), 300mgs second shot.
Weeks 2-9:  300mgs/Test E 2x/weekly. (600mgs/wk total)
Weeks 1-4: Dbol 30-40mgs/day

Weeks 2-10: HCG 250iu/twice weekly
Weeks 3-10: Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD adjust if needed
Weeks 11-14: Aromasin 12.5mg/ED with Toremifene 60mgs/day (frontload day 1 with 180mgs).


*6 Weeks Off (should be completely recovered, but prove it with bloodwork)*


*May 27th - Cycle #2 -  9 weeks*

Weeks 1-8: 250mgs/Test PP E3D (frontload day 1 with 750mgs/Test PP)
Weeks 1-3: 20mgs/Dbol ED with 50mgs/Drol ED
Weeks 7-9: 20mgs/Dbol ED with 50mgs/Winny ED

Weeks 2-9: HCG 250iu/twice weekly
Weeks 3-9: Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD adjust if needed
Weeks 10-12: Aromasin 12.5mg/ED with Toremifene 60mgs/day (frontload day 1 with 180mgs).


*5 Weeks Off (should be completely recovered, but prove it with bloodwork)*


*September 23rd - Cycle #3 -  8 weeks*

Weeks 1-8: 200mgs/Test P EOD (frontload day 1 with 600mgs/Test P)
Weeks 1-8: 100mgs/Mast P EOD (frontload day 1 with 300mgs/Mast P)
Weeks 1-8: 100mgs/Anavar ED
Weeks 1-8: 100mgs/Proviron ED

Weeks 3-8: HCG 250iu/twice weekly
Weeks 3-8: Aromasin 12.5mg/E3D adjust if needed
Weeks 9-11: Aromasin 12.5mg/ED with Toremifene 60mgs/day (frontload day 1 with 180mgs).


*4 Weeks Off (should have you completely recovered by end of first week of new year*




There it is guys.  Obviously your results will be directly related to your diet and dedication to training, as much OFF cycle as on.  While the first two cycles are set up for more mass gain and the last is set up to tighten up and solidify everything that was gained, tweaking the diet according to your goals will allow you to customize this plan for your goals.


I would like to thank GetSome for his part in birthing this brainchild, and a very special thanks to my wife for putting up with my OCD tendency to research the FUCK outta every aspect of this lifelong game we all love.


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## gymrat827

nice work boss.  i may try myself if i go compound shopping.


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## PillarofBalance

Congrats on your first sticky here SAD.


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## pirovoliko

Good stuff SAD...nice read


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## Four1Thr33

I'm new to this front loading .. So your basically taking your desired weekly MG total and doubling it in one shot ?


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## PillarofBalance

Four1Thr33 said:


> I'm new to this front loading .. So your basically taking your desired weekly MG total and doubling it in one shot ?



You take your weekly MG total in the first shot, then continue as normal. Say you take 500mg test per week pinning Monday and Thursday.  

Monday - 500mg
Thursday - 250
Monday - 250
Thursday - 250 and so on....


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## Four1Thr33

Ok my confusion is his cycle one.  He's running 600 a week
He pinned 1200 day one and 300 for second pin that week


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## IWannaGetBig

Man what a great post. I was going to say sticky material, but seems someone has beat me to the punch.


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## airagee23

Nice post SAD. Some good nice cycles you have posted with pct


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## Jada

Great post! Sticky ! Rep points !


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## SAD

Four1Thr33 said:


> Ok my confusion is his cycle one.  He's running 600 a week
> He pinned 1200 day one and 300 for second pin that week



The precise science of frontloading using the, "total weeks mgs in first shot" or "three maintenance pins worth in one shot" whichever is lowest, works on paper almost perfectly.  However, my experience with frontloading short cycles, (and that's the key here, that these are relatively short cycles, so the quicker we get levels up the better), is that it requires roughly triple the maintenance dose with shortish/short esters, and double the weekly dose for longer/long esters.  There may be a bit of a peak and then lowering to stabilize, but I've found that I respond better earlier using the outlined frontloads.  The frontloads are important for making the most of cycles 10 weeks or less, but that's not to say that you can't adjust the frontload amount based on how YOU feel.  Biochemical individuality my friend, biochemical individuality.


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## LeanHerm

Sad great fucking post bro. I def have a man crush on you.  Guess what? I got on leopard skin bikini briefs on. Lol.


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## theminister

cringe!! :-& or maybe not... wink wink


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## Four1Thr33

Thanks a lot sad... I wanted to know more about this... Will do my next cycle front loaded


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## NbleSavage

Excellent post, props on the 'sticky'! This kind of strategic planning is often lacking and results in Bros ambling from one cycle to the next. 

Great add, SAD!


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## SAD

Thanks a lot guys.  There is absolutely more strategy involved with cycling than with blasting-and-cruising.  Not that I'm not trying to perfect blasting-and-cruising too, but there is just less strategy involved, period.  My hopes for this are not hung on anybody having to try the entire yearlong plan, compound for compound, dose for dose.  I would rather just see everybody take away a little something that can help them plan their next cycle more effectively and with a purpose that delves deeper than "I wanna get bigger and more cut".


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## Curiosity

So you don't follow the general rule of "time on + PCT=time off" for full recovery? I've heard this preached by many in the past... I mean I understand, after a successful PCT you should hopefully be back up to normal hormone production by week 5 or 6 at the latest, but just in terms of giving your body some time to regain homeostasis and run the way it's supposed to for a while.  I've heard many bros in the past preach that this will give you the best chance of being able to run cycles without permanently affecting your HPTA....

Just curious what your thoughts are on this. Good post though man, glad you have you on board here, you obviously know a lot about AAS and training.


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## SAD

Curiosity said:


> So you don't follow the general rule of "time on + PCT=time off" for full recovery? I've heard this preached by many in the past... I mean I understand, after a successful PCT you should hopefully be back up to normal hormone production by week 5 or 6 at the latest, but just in terms of giving your body some time to regain homeostasis and run the way it's supposed to for a while.  I've heard many bros in the past preach that this will give you the best chance of being able to run cycles without permanently affecting your HPTA....
> 
> Just curious what your thoughts are on this. Good post though man, glad you have you on board here, you obviously know a lot about AAS and training.



Good feedback Curiosity.  When I ran longer cycles, i.e. 12+ weeks, I would follow time on+pct=time off.  I never did bloodwork, but it was such a long time that I always felt confident that I was fully recovered and ready to go again.  But the issue I kept running into was what I would lose during PCT and the few short weeks after PCT when the body is still not at 100%.  I boiled it down to slow recovery=fewer retained gains.  When I started running shorter cycles, I also started to keep up with bloodwork, and I found that bloodwork came back normal within 2-3 weeks of the end of PCT.  I attributed this to a variety of things: less time on equals less shutdown, HCG throughout cycle, aromasin stacked with torem for PCT (as opposed to nolva/clomid).

After a handful of short cycles and bloodwork to prove it, I concluded that the age old wisdom of "time on+pct=time off" was a good rule for those who were running cycles like back in the day,  cycles that were routinely longer than 12 weeks, included deca, did not include HCG, and either just a "taper off PCT" or nolva alone.  We now have a much better understanding of how to keep the HPTA mostly on track during a cycle, and our PCTs are more dialed in and include more advanced and effective compounds.  These facts, combined with the shorter length of the cycles, and the exclusion of deca or tren, allows me to confidently say that MOST people would be able to run this program and recover fully in between each cycle.  As I said in the OP however, bloodwork is the only way to know for sure, and I highly recommend having bloodwork done before starting any cycle.

To address your last point.  I personally believe it is _almost_ impossible to cycle (even properly) for years without permanently affecting your HPTA.  Some may have gotten away with it, but most who stay in this game we love will end up on TRT sooner than they otherwise would have.


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## Jada

Thanks for the reading post sad quick ? Even if a person recovers everytime when running a cycle he will be on trt one day?


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## SAD

Assuming you want to have normal testosterone levels in your 50s and 60s and 70s+, you will need TRT to do this EVEN IF YOU'VE NEVER USED AAS.  But it is my personal opinion that cycling, even if done properly every time, will move up the date when you'll need TRT just for normal levels.


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## mlifter

Great post, will be referring back to this sticky alot!


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## don draco

Great post, SAD.  Will be very useful to me in the future


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## j2048b

Man i needed to re read this, i have seen a doc over on a different forum advocating shorter cycles as well, SAD this explains y it is needed and a better in depth discussion of everything is appreciated!


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## sprawl33

I always used more PT time then anything but I like what I read there was some good info here


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## Gt500face

Good shit SAD


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## Get Some

Wanted to thank SAD for giving me a wink of credit on this  he has and always will be a good brother.

My original idea was much more complex and included specific dates and times for everything, including which particular cycles should be run at certain points in the year and what the overall goal of each cycle was. SAD took that and broke it down to such a simplistic level that everyone should be able to understand it! Kudos to him for that. 

There are 2 ways to successfully frontload. The way SAD mentioned is the better way, but if you don't want to pin 3cc in one shot just double the dose of your first 2 pins in the first week. Also, there is no need to frontload with ace, prop, di-prop, etc. I don't even frontload with phenyl prop, Isocap, or similar, but you certainly can. 

The key to the 6 week cycle is the mentality. I refer to this cycle as the "ONSLAUGHT" cycle be side of what I would incorporate. Orals all 6 weeks, tren, test, mast, T3, clen, var, winny, proviron, etc. because its short you have to throw the house at it and give it all you've got. For all intensive purposes I originally planned this cycle as a mini contest prep type cycle designed to cut up the gains made in the first 2. The idea was gain 25 lbs first cycle, 10 lbs 2nd cycle and cut up 3rd cycle (no weight gain or slight weight loss). The goal for the year was to be lean by summer and have a net gain of 20-25 lbs from the previous year.

SAD's shortest cycle is 8 weeks, which is fine. He put a lot if thought into this and I'm glad he was able to share it with you guys! We are both MENSA members and had some pretty fun scientific chemical discussions back in the day haha! 

My personal opinion on this is by the time you are done with this first year (following the 10,9,8 routine) you will need to take 4-6 months off with the proper hcg and hmg therapy. Theoretically you could keep going but probably 1% or less of people would make it through the second year before saying "fuck it" and doing the TRT thing. That's not bad either, it's so much easier than recovering. I personally took 2 years off from everything to "recharge." I got fat and lazy until I recently lost the weight natty and have now just started a recomp cycle this week. From here who knows where I'll go but it's a start. My best advice to any of you is always have a plan. You should always have a plan in place for the next cycle before the current one starts. You can always amend the forthcoming plan but if you have nothing in place it is much easier to succumb to temptation and make a poor decision regarding what is best for your progress. Write shit down!!! Having a plan in your head is like being in a shark cage in your neighborhood pool. Theoretically the cage is supposed to go in water, but people are going to be looking at you like, "wtf is that asshole doing?" ... Don't be the asshole!!!


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## TheGhost

Im alittle to this as well. My question is this if your running a 10 week cycle and 4 week pct shouldn't you take more time off then just 6 weeks?


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## TheGhost

*alittle confused


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## losieloos

no climid or nolvadex during pct??


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## No1uknw

Get Some said:


> There are 2 ways to successfully frontload. The way SAD mentioned is the better way, but if you don't want to pin 3cc in one shot just double the dose of your first 2 pins in the first week. Also, there is no need to frontload with ace, prop, di-prop, etc. I don't even frontload with phenyl prop, Isocap, or similar, but you certainly can.



If I'm understanding what your saying here right I could frontload the 1200mgs Test E day one and if I wanted add in 100mgs of Test P EoD for the first couple weeks till the Test E stabilizes? Or are you saying that with the Test E frontload there is no need to kickstart the cycle with a faster acting injectable test.


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## DF

No1uknw said:


> If I'm understanding what your saying here right I could frontload the 1200mgs Test E day one and if I wanted add in 100mgs of Test P EoD for the first couple weeks till the Test E stabilizes? Or are you saying that with the Test E frontload there is no need to kickstart the cycle with a faster acting injectable test.



I believe in all 3 of his cycles he is suggesting doing a front load not kick stating with faster esters.


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## #TheMatrix

....followed this early this year.  I believe if youre gona cycle.  cycle right.  this is great reference
no hijack.  but now im on Gest Somes sugestion of 9 week cycles


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## No1uknw

DF said:


> I believe in all 3 of his cycles he is suggesting doing a front load not kick stating with faster esters.


I understand what SAD is recommending but when I read Get Some's post I was confused if he was saying you could do a Kickstart with a Frontload. 

Example
Week 1-2 Test P 100mg EoD
Week 1-10 Test E 600mgs (split into 2x300mgs injections) with a day one 1200mg Frontload

I've been reading up on things in other posts like the "First Cycle: All You Need to Know" sticky and wondering about combining some of the recommendations.
So based on what I read there I was looking at ending a cycle like such also.

Week 11-13 100mg Test P EoD last injection of Test P on Wednesday of week 13)

Week 14-17 PCT

I just look at this as bringing blood levels up to optimal levels as quickly as possible and benefiting from everything up until 3 days before your PCT starts.


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## hulksmash

I dont know why anyone comes off...

Youre gonna end up on TRT anyway doing cycles for years and years


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## SuperBane

hulksmash said:


> I dont know why anyone comes off...
> 
> Youre gonna end up on TRT anyway doing cycles for years and years



Cmon now you can't lead the kids astray.
There is no reason to stay on if you aren't going pro.

at least give a detailed reasoning behind your beliefs hulk.


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## f.r.a.n.k.

What's the point in running an AI during the pct time?
I was always taught to drop the AI the day before PCT and pct be a Clomid/nolva combo.


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## TheLupinator

frank.tb said:


> What's the point in running an AI during the pct time?
> I was always taught to drop the AI the day before PCT and pct be a Clomid/nolva combo.



During pct your test production is starting back up. As your test rises some of it will aromatize, AI is used to keep that from happening thus increasing your test. AIs by themselves increase testosterone.


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## hulksmash

SuperBane said:


> Cmon now you can't lead the kids astray.
> There is no reason to stay on if you aren't going pro.
> 
> at least give a detailed reasoning behind your beliefs hulk.



True, I don't condone anyone staying on...especially if it's not within your goals

Reason for me staying on=my size+bf goal I want requires staying on and taking above average doses

AKA what the majority shouldn't do


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## f.r.a.n.k.

TheLupinator said:


> During pct your test production is starting back up. As your test rises some of it will aromatize, AI is used to keep that from happening thus increasing your test. AIs by themselves increase testosterone.



Ahhh I see I see...doesn't Nolva and Clomid both have AI properties? Though Nolva does.t inhibit the conversion into estrogen, just the formation of breast tissue by binding to the receptors responsible...


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## f.r.a.n.k.

Also, there is such thing as too little estrogen...
Which I guess boils down to "everyone's different"


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## TheLupinator

frank.tb said:


> Ahhh I see I see...doesn't Nolva and Clomid both have AI properties? Though Nolva does.t inhibit the conversion into estrogen, just the formation of breast tissue by binding to the receptors responsible...



Nolva and clomid aren't aromatase inhibitors (AI), they are selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERM). Just like you said, they won't prevent your test from converting to estrogen, but they will prevent it from binding to receptors. So while nolva and clomid help raise your production of natty test, they do nothing to keep that test from converting into estrogen, this is where an AI can help.


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## f.r.a.n.k.

TheLupinator said:


> Nolva and clomid aren't aromatase inhibitors (AI), they are selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERM). Just like you said, they won't prevent your test from converting to estrogen, but they will prevent it from binding to receptors. So while nolva and clomid help raise your production of natty test, they do nothing to keep that test from converting into estrogen, this is where an AI can help.



Hmmm I wonder what the arguement is for those who cut off the AI the day before PCT starts?


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## PillarofBalance

My best post cycle therapy was torem and aromasin... No reason not to take an AI in PCT that I know of.


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## dirtydogs

I heard aromasin + nolva/Clomid is on point. I don't know anything about torem though. I like the planning here, thx for the ideas bro.


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## shenky

thanks for this sticky


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## 502

Good informative post, i have a question about the cycle with 2 orals. Dbol and drol together and running them both longer than 4 weeks. Is that really a good idea?


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## PillarofBalance

501s finest said:


> Good informative post, i have a question about the cycle with 2 orals. Dbol and drol together and running them both longer than 4 weeks. Is that really a good idea?



Liver toxicity is a bit overstated. When stacking those two you don't need as much of either really so the overall dose isn't very high


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## dirtydogs

Thx for this. I'm just starting the first cycle. Minus dbol. That stuff and I dont get along very well with others.


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## Magical

I like the cycle plans you have configured


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## M_T Pockets

Question question here (raises my hand)
So if a guy meaning me is going to go on a TES only cycle for a 1st cycle we can inject 1x a week of 3cc?

I need to reread this post. Im game for shorter cycles. Im 43 yrs old.


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## PillarofBalance

M_T Pockets said:


> Question question here (raises my hand)
> So if a guy meaning me is going to go on a TES only cycle for a 1st cycle we can inject 1x a week of 3cc?
> 
> I need to reread this post. Im game for shorter cycles. Im 43 yrs old.



If its a long ester like cypionate yes you can do a weekly injection.


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## M_T Pockets

Ok thanks so much...Is Cyp recommended on a 1st cycle?


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## M_T Pockets

Instead of worrying about pinning 1x a week I need to figure out what cycle to run.
My 'mentor' is watching me I can smell him. Lol


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## PillarofBalance

Who is your mentor?

Yeah cyp is fine. Take a look at the everything you need to know for a 1st cycle sticky in the cycle discussion forum. That will get you on a roll


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## M_T Pockets

GymRat has helped me out quite a bit on everything.
Ive read the stickys over n over n still will read them.


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## bigdog6693

Wats up pockets!! I remember u off evo


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## Fsuphisig

Wondering who else has used toremifine instead of nolva, or Ralox.


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## PillarofBalance

Fsuphisig said:


> Wondering who else has used toremifine instead of nolva, or Ralox.


Torem would be used in place of clomid.   The best pct I ever ran was Torem and aromasin.  

IIRC the doses were 
120/60/60/60 Torem
12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 aromasin


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## bronco

Fsuphisig said:


> Wondering who else has used toremifine instead of nolva, or Ralox.



toremifene is great for pct problem is finding some that is legit. I like it much better than clomid


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## Luscious Lei

Fsuphisig said:


> Wondering who else has used toremifine instead of nolva, or Ralox.



I used torem for all my cycles and my recoveries have been a breeze


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## Jayjay82

Great post and some great info in the responses too!!!


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## Milo

This is good shit. Going to have to try this out next time around.


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## Fsuphisig

Luscious Lei said:


> I used torem for all my cycles and my recoveries have been a breeze



Just torem with an ai? Does it eliminate the need for a nolva. I see he's suggesting just torem with ai,


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## Luscious Lei

Fsuphisig said:


> Just torem with an ai? Does it eliminate the need for a nolva. I see he's suggesting just torem with ai,



For my first two cycles I did torem only, back then torem was relatively new and it was supposed to be the ultimate stand alone PCT.
The third one I did torem + clomid, I thought torem was more a replacement for nolva than for clomid. It still went fine though.


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## McDuffy

wouldn't short cycles be worst for you than long cycles? repeatedly shutting your system down and restarting it?


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## McDuffy

Luscious Lei said:


> I used torem for all my cycles and my recoveries have been a breeze



y have i never heard of torem before?


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## SoldierBull

That bit about buying your gear in reverse is a gem.

Fantastic advice for vets as well as rookies


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## Wurja

Is there a reason you use shorter esters each cycle? It's a pain finding test pp, can I use something else for the second cycle?


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## Seeker

.............


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## jennerrator

Jesus Christ.....


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## DarthMaanz

Wurja said:


> Is there a reason you use shorter esters each cycle? It's a pain finding test pp, can I use something else for the second cycle?



To answer your question regarding why you use shorter esters each cycle, I believe it’s because the shorter esters are faster acting and will clear out of a persons system quicker so a person can start PCT and recover quicker leading to being able to start their next cycle sooner. As for a substitution for test pp, it’s half life is 3.5 days. Their is test suspension and which must be injected daily or even multiple times a day, or their is test Enanthate which has a half life of about 4-5 days. I’m not sure if it is okay or smart to substitute the test pp out or not with either of these though and run a different schedule, someone with more knowledge than I would have to answer that questions and help you along.


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## BRICKS

Half life of enanthate is  10-12 days.


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## DarthMaanz

BRICKS said:


> Half life of enanthate is  10-12 days.





Not according to a google search, although in some places I’ve read the half life is supposedly 8-9 days. Haven’t seen anything saying 10-12


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## BRICKS

DarthMaanz said:


> View attachment 6532
> 
> Not according to a google search, although in some places I’ve read the half life is supposedly 8-9 days. Haven’t seen anything saying 10-12



You're right, I was thinking test cyp when I typed this.  But please don't use Wikipedia as source for citing fact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2333732/


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## Pinhead13

Thank you for the sticky. I have put together a shopping list but am *unable to buy Toremifene from my source.* *Would it be okay to sub nolvadex for Toremifene? Any help would be appreciated.*


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## minasdam

Hi from Greece why you exclude deca and tren .


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## Adrenolin

minasdam said:


> Hi from Greece why you exclude deca and tren .



Don't be dense when bumping old posts. They're example cycles.

Im not really a fan of nor agree with OP's logic here either


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## CJ

Adrenolin said:


> Im not really a fan of nor agree with OP's logic here either



Me either, it looks more like one long ass 33 week cycle, where you forget to take your shot for a few weeks a couple of times.

Completely recovered in 5 weeks??? Get the heck outta here!!! Your exogenous compounds are just finally getting down to baseline at this point.

*although I do love his avatar! :32 (18):


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## Jin

CJ275 said:


> Me either, it looks more like one long ass 33 week cycle, where you forget to take your shot for a few weeks a clue of times.
> 
> Completely recovered in 5 weeks??? Get the heck outta here!!! Your exogenous compounds are just finally getting down to baseline at this point.
> 
> *although I do love his avatar! :32 (18):



Agree. I have unstickied this post.


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