# Too many supplements?



## IronVeganGuy (Sep 1, 2019)

Ok, I've explained before what all I take along with my usual plant based diet (Creatine monohydrate, l-lucine, iron vegan athlete bulk protein powder, egcg green tea extract).  

Now I have added l-arginine (1000 ml 2x daily), I'm switching my creatine to Crazy Muscle three-atine (3 types of creatine in one capsule) and also adding Micro ingredients pure HMB powder.

I'm trying to maximize what I get out of each workout. I just got off a deload week last week and switched some of my routines to keep workouts fresh. At some point it's a matter of what my body uses and what gets flushed out. 

Eating a ton of protein with tons of carbs and fats is grueling only to see little progress (suffering from mirror syndrome, i.e.- I keep looking in the mirror each morning at progress). Cal is at 5500-6000, protein/carb/fat is at 25%/50%/25%.


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## TODAY (Sep 1, 2019)

The only supplement you listed that is worth taking is creatine. That being said, I don't see anything that would be harmful, aside from the financial strain of slamming fistfulls of overpriced supplements into your face, of course.

Also, you only need Creatine Monohydrate.


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## BRICKS (Sep 1, 2019)

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what's your age, height, weight, and how long have you been training.  The answer is easy. Look in the mirror.  All that sh*t making a difference? No? Get rid of it.  And just curious, why don't you eat meat?


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## Elivo (Sep 1, 2019)

Most of those supps are only good for producing expensive piss  and sh!t.  toss them.

Meat is good!!


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## CJ (Sep 1, 2019)

Regular creatine monohydrate.

The vegan protein powder, to supplement. 

Check your iron and B12 levels. 

Put the rest aside, save your $$$


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## snake (Sep 1, 2019)

BRICKS said:


> Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what's your age, height, weight, and how long have you been training.  The answer is easy. Look in the mirror.  All that sh*t making a difference? No? Get rid of it.  And just curious, why don't you eat meat?


Bumping this question but I think I know where it's going. That's going to make the possibility of consuming 6,000 cals almost impossible.


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## Straight30weight (Sep 1, 2019)

You’re dangerously low on dead animals. 

Id recommend copious amounts of cow, stat.


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## BRICKS (Sep 1, 2019)

snake said:


> Bumping this question but I think I know where it's going. That's going to make the possibility of consuming 6,000 cals almost impossible.



Just "grazing" it is indeed.  We have canines and incisors for a reason.


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## automatondan (Sep 1, 2019)

If you decided to eat a normal diet with good cholesterol animal based proteins mixed with all your good micro nutrients from the heavy plant based diet, you wouldn't need to take/rely on so many supliments... And I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be as grueling without seeing any progress... Just my .02


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## Long (Sep 1, 2019)

I dropped everything. I do not even eat concentrated protein drinks or multivitamins anymore. What's the difference? Nothing. Aside from the small energy boost I believe creatine gave me, nada. 

If anything since I started hitting my numbers with food its easier to drop a pound if I want and I seem to have broken through another ceiling. 

I do however only eat about 2.500 calories on days off, 2700 on days on and 3000 about once a week.

5,000 calories is a lot of tuna sandwiches and steak potatoes.


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## automatondan (Sep 1, 2019)

Also, just wanted to add, I don't suppliment anything aside from protein powder occasionally when I get caught without enough food prepped and when I get my blood tests done, I'm ALWAYS at the very high side of normal for creatine. So I think it's overkill as long as you are eating enough animal based proteins.


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## Seeker (Sep 1, 2019)

lol OP is a vegan and you guys are telling him to eat meat. That's like trying to convince Snake to eat fish. Anyway, being that you are vegan, I would recommend you  continue with the Creatine Monohydrate. Nothing wrong with adding a vegan protein powder. Pea protein seems to be a popular alternative for vegans. Also forget that Crazy Muscle three a tean. sounds as stupid as it probably is. a waste.


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## IronVeganGuy (Sep 3, 2019)

My Height is 6'2" and I weight 215 lbs.  Plus I'm very active and being plant based I have to eat a little more to get the benefits. 

FYI on the meat/dairy thing, long story short I had diagnosed fatty liver due to high cholesterol 3 years ago. I chose diet vs medication, no more medical expenses.


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## TODAY (Sep 3, 2019)

IronVeganGuy said:


> My Height is 6'2" and I weight 215 lbs.  Plus I'm very active and being plant based I have to eat a little more to get the benefits.
> 
> FYI on the meat/dairy thing, long story short I had diagnosed fatty liver due to high cholesterol 3 years ago. I chose diet vs medication, no more medical expenses.


And how's your liver now? Enzymes in normal range?


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## Jin (Sep 3, 2019)

IronVeganGuy said:


> My Height is 6'2" and I weight 215 lbs.  Plus I'm very active and being plant based I have to eat a little more to get the benefits.
> 
> FYI on the meat/dairy thing, long story short I had diagnosed fatty liver due to high cholesterol 3 years ago. I chose diet vs medication, no more medical expenses.



My chelosterol is higher and I have been diagnosed with “fatty liver” simply because my levels are almost always elevated. 

Unless......

I get blood pulled on a deload week. 

Then they are normal. Most doctors don’t kno that strenuous resistance training will elevate liver enzymes. 

For anybody half serious in this board that mean you don’t get an accurate liver enzyme value unless you on a rest/deload period. 

Much like tou wouldnt take your BP 3 minutes after a 2 mile run.


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## TODAY (Sep 3, 2019)

Jin said:


> My chelosterol is higher and I have been diagnosed with “fatty liver” simply because my levels are almost always elevated.
> 
> Unless......
> 
> ...


My understanding is that measuring creatine kinase/creatinine/other markers of muscle breakdown can provide a physician with enough info for differential diagnosis in these cases. I do wonder how/if IronVegan's physician ruled out transient exercise-related elevation of liver enzymes.


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## Jin (Sep 3, 2019)

TODAY said:


> My understanding is that measuring creatine kinase/creatinine/other markers of muscle breakdown can provide a physician with enough info for differential diagnosis in these cases. I do wonder how/if IronVegan's physician ruled out transient exercise-related elevation of liver enzymes.



That may well be the case with the doctors who understand the phenomenon of exercise related elevation. IME most do not


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## TODAY (Sep 3, 2019)

Jin said:


> That may well be the case with the doctors who understand the phenomenon of exercise related elevation. IME most do not


It's a scary state of affairs. Creatine kinase assessments aren't difficult or expensive and there have been dozens of scholarly papers and peer-reviewed studies published on this phenomenon.


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## Jin (Sep 3, 2019)

TODAY said:


> It's a scary state of affairs. Creatine kinase assessments aren't difficult or expensive and there have been dozens of scholarly papers and peer-reviewed studies published on this phenomenon.



Sorry, I was speaking only in reference to liver enzyme values. I think most doctors understand creatine level correlation but to not understand that the same cause may elevate liver enzyme levels. Hence they don’t know how to assess over all liver function based on a comparison of those different values.


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## BRICKS (Sep 3, 2019)

Depends what kind of doc.  Internal medicine, absolutely.  General practitioner/family practice doc, haha, no fkn way.  Most guys on this board see the latter.


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## CJ (Sep 3, 2019)

Yup, every single year I end up reminding my GP why my Ast, Alt, and Creatinine are slightly elevated. One year awhile back they had me go see a specialist, get tested a silly amount of times, to get the end result of "you're fine, elevation caused by strenuous exercise".


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