# The low carb vs high carb conundrum :



## j2048b (Apr 30, 2014)

Well which is it?
What do u prefer? 

Carbs for u decided upon what?  

Well this is something that might, and i say might change ur mind a bit? 

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/low-carb-convert

I know if u understand ur body well enough then u can decide how to consume carbs towards ur goal... But for newbees...it all may just be bro science until they understand how their bodies respond.... Most people do not ever get to this point... And instead make the leap to aas, WAY before they ever should, IF they ever really need them or not....

Lets start this discussion and i wanted to use the above link to begin it.... As it does basically go against what a lot of people believe....

Ive had my fare share of hiring nutritionists, and for the most part they keep protein HIGH over carbs.... Why is that? Is it due to the muscle needing that much protein...? Or because most are scared of carbs? 
Or just higher carbs for a bulk vs a cut? 

Or is it that once u make a cut u get weaker... Wouldnt that make u WANT more carbs for glycogen replenishment/ATP? 

One of the diets i first got comming up was from beverly international, and for every diet i have ever gotten from them, the carbs have ALWAYS outweighed the protein %.... It stops to make u wonder....


----------



## DocDePanda187123 (Apr 30, 2014)

PRO is most often kept high bc ppl tend to think if a little is good, more is better. You'll see ppl take upwards of 2g/lb BW pf PRO for no other reason than bc it will 'get them the most gains' or something similar. Only a certain amount of protein is needed for minimum numbers and it makes sense and is backed up in literature that a small window exists where you may benefit slightly by slight increase in PRO from minimum needs. AAS can increase this number to some degree but PRO is still the most over-abused macro IMO. This doesn't justify a 180lb lifter taking 400g of protein though...  

I'd say some people are also still carb-phobic. It wasn't that long ago when people said carbs make you fat or carbs past 8:23 PM eastern standard time makes you fat, etc. We are just now beginning to see many of these people see the light of day. 

I believe you can get by with less carbs on a bulk bc you're in a hyper calorie state and they become more important for cutting bc you're hypocaloric. This doesn't apply to everyone though since many have great success with keto diets and low carb diets. Weight lifting is not a sport that fully depletes glycogen levels on a daily basis. Furthermore it doesn't take all that many carbs to replenish lost glycogen. ATP doesn't require carbs as it's possible to make it through fatty acid oxidation separate of glycolysis but all activity represents a combination of energy pathways unless it's all out maximum effort for very short duration. Again some cannot get used to using fatty acids as a primary source of energy so they are an exception. 

To me it all boils down to a few things. ALL successful diets are based on a few very important principles and the rest is all fluff. Tune your calories to your goals whether cutting bulking, or maintaining. Get your minimum PRO and fat needs met. The rest of the calories can be anything you want or any combo. Whether it's carb cycling, keto, high carb, low carb, Atkins, Zone, Paleo, etc matters not in the least for any direct reason. The only difference all this fluff makes is how it allows you to perform in the gym. If you're able to bring the intensity on keto and you prefer it, go for it. If you want high carbs, aren't carb intolerant, and can be intense, do it. Whatever fits your lifestyle factors, allows you the most consistency, and allows you the most gym intensity is what you should be doing and not everyone's answers will be the same.


----------



## TheLupinator (May 1, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Weight lifting is not a sport that fully depletes glycogen levels on a daily basis. Furthermore it doesn't take all that many carbs to replenish lost glycogen.
> 
> Get your minimum PRO and fat needs met. The rest of the calories can be anything you want or any combo.



^^^This in a fcckin nutshell. You definitely need some carbs to preform at your best for high intensity training, but only in endurance sports i.e. football, boxing, basketball, soccer (note these sports still have bouts of high intensity activity involved)... basically everything except baseball & bodybuilding, do you really need 100% full glycogen to perform optimally.

Personally, I keep protein between 1 - 1.5 grams per LB of target LBM - depending on how much gear I'm running and volume of training 

e.g. I want to be 200lbs @ 10% bf - I consume - 180g (off-cycle) - 225g (light-cycle) - 270g (heavy-cycle)

Fill in the rest however you want. Just stay away from zero carb or zero fat and you're good


----------



## RJ (May 1, 2014)

i have done all the diets all of the ways and have learned that most lifters in general eat wayyyy more than they need to. That being said, you do have to eat bigger than normal to get bigger than normal, but it doesn't mean outlandish amounts of PRO. I also believe unless you are at a mature enough state with your physique, or getting ready for a show, counting macros is kind of silly. What i mean is i see these guys all the time worrying all bout percentages and they don't even understand how to train. 

I know what i am doing now goes against most conventional wisdom, but its working great. I do a carb back-load at night and its awesome. My meals by day look a bit like this:

1. 5 eggs, 2 pieces toast, coffee with 1 tbsp coconut oil
2. 6oz chix, 2 cups spinach, 1tbsp Coconut oil
3. (training days, which is usually mon/wed/fri) 6oz chix, 1 cup white rice, 1/2 cup red kidney beans
4. (PWO, usually no more than 2 hours after i train) 1/2lbs rigatoni, 10-12 meatballs, parm cheese

Doing this i wake up big and full and have plenty of energy througout the day. I also stopped taking whey shakes about 8 months ago and that has been great as well. But thats it for 5 days of the week. I have no idea what the macros are and i don't care. It works. 

Weekends i eat what i want. bfast is always the same and i usually only get 4 meals in. sometimes 3. I am on 100mg of Tren E a week, which is great in a low cal environment, but i was doing this before than with great results and maintaining just fine. And this ain't alot of food. Like everything, you just gotta try shit out. Sometimes that means doing what others wont or believe is stupid.


----------



## j2048b (May 1, 2014)

RJ said:


> i have done all the diets all of the ways and have learned that most lifters in general eat wayyyy more than they need to. That being said, you do have to eat bigger than normal to get bigger than normal, but it doesn't mean outlandish amounts of PRO. I also believe unless you are at a mature enough state with your physique, or getting ready for a show, counting macros is kind of silly. What i mean is i see these guys all the time worrying all bout percentages and they don't even understand how to train.
> 
> I know what i am doing now goes against most conventional wisdom, but its working great. I do a carb back-load at night and its awesome. My meals by day look a bit like this:
> 
> ...



How expensive is this? My issue has always been the cost, plus family meals etc... Did the whey make u bloat or what was the reasoning to drop them?


----------



## RJ (May 1, 2014)

J20 said:


> How expensive is this? My issue has always been the cost, plus family meals etc... Did the whey make u bloat or what was the reasoning to drop them?



its really not expensive at all. i mean its not that much food. I have two small kids and although they don't eat much they still cost alot. 

As for the whey, the bloat was one thing. I had been drinking two shakes a day for the better part of twenty years. At least one. And no matter what type of whey, or what type of mix, they always just made me feel blegh. Mainly bloat or just feeling full in my stomach. So i dropped them. My main concern was dropping an extra 100g of protein from my day and worrying that i would lose a bunch of muscle. Quickly i learned that is not the case. And i feel fantastic. Stomach is always flat (now that i have abs. haha) and never feels like that anymore. I tried a shake at the gym one day about two months ago and immediately got that feeling again. Never again. Not to mention its $50 a month i no longer have to spend.


----------

