# Editing Routines



## TriniJuice (Mar 5, 2014)

Currently my shoulder routine looks like this

Standing Shoulder Press 15,8,5,8
Lateral Raise 15,8,5,8
Standing DB Press 15,8,5,8
BB Shrugs 15,8,5,8

i want to change BB Shrugs but not sure what to sub it with 
-Upright Rows or DB Front Raises

Also for DB presses, should i try alternating or Arnold presses
-doing this standing http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress.html


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 5, 2014)

TriniJuice said:


> Currently my shoulder routine looks like this
> 
> Standing Shoulder Press 15,8,5,8
> Lateral Raise 15,8,5,8
> ...



Standing strict over head press is essential IMO.  That will pack mass on your delts, upper chest, lats and upper back.  For rear delts I like face pulls. Tons of them.  They are great with a band or with cables and the rope attachment is fine.  You can keep the shrugs in there if you want, but what I prefer are "shrows" - do a bent over row but only slightly bent over.  This will smash the hell out of the rear delts, as well as the upper and mid traps.  Doing work like that will help to increase your other lifts as well. Rear delts, and especially upper back and lats play a huge role in your benchpress.


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## Seeker (Mar 5, 2014)

Whats wrong with the illustration on the link you posted.

1) do not touch or bang the dumbbells together at the top. By doing this you are taking the tension off the delts and now putting undo stress on the rotator cuff.
2) do not lock out at the top.When you lock out at the top you are distributing all the weight from the shoulders to the elbow joints, so again you are interrupting the muscle tension and stimulation. By doing this you are now putting stress on the elbow joints.


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## ECKSRATED (Mar 5, 2014)

Push press. Strict ohp. Behind the neck push press. Standing db press. Those will all make u strong as shit.


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## Tiny Calves (Mar 5, 2014)

I guess I over train because that's not even half my shoulder routine... 






I really like this guy's training techniques.  STUPID PUMP!


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## TriniJuice (Mar 5, 2014)

just finished working shoulders... 
-i subbed the shrugs for Reverse Presses (Behind the Neck Press), it felt synergistic with everything else


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## TriniJuice (Mar 6, 2014)

Leg day today, here's my current regimen 

Squats 15,8,5,8,12
Calf Raises 15,8,5,8,12
Front Squats 15,8,5,8,12

limited to BB/DB workouts...i used to do BB Lunges but it's an awkward movement for me, especially when i try to add weight and hit my targeted reps
-should i stick to a lower weight when doing Lunges and just worry about going till failure...if i incorporate Lunges my routine would be a 4x4 instead of 3x5


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## TriniJuice (Mar 6, 2014)

mid-day bump


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## shenky (Mar 6, 2014)

Curious about "shrows", POB. Can you illustrate this exercise with more detail?

I can't do reverse flys, as it hurts my shoulder, so I'll try face pulls next shoulder day and see if that works.


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## TriniJuice (Mar 6, 2014)

I tries those shrows yesterday, must've been doing them wrong but it felt like I should be doing them on back days


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## TriniJuice (Mar 7, 2014)

Test must've kicked in today, im up 20lbs on my heaviest lifts compared to last week
I'm still not feeling this leg routine but i think i know how to fix it; increasing my rep range for calves would help this workout feel more synergistic
by back/left shoulder just doesn't agree with supporting the weight i need for low reps, even after i boss threw it my calves just don't feel trained
next weeks gonna look like this

Squats 15,8,5,8,12
Calf Raises 15,8,12,8,15 
Front Squats 12,8,5,8,12


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## TriniJuice (Mar 7, 2014)

Friday=Arm Day
This is the only routine i feel i've perfected, as far as workout order and rep ranges

Reverse Grip Bench 15,8,5,8
Ez-Curls 15,8,5,8
Weighted Dips 15,8,5,8
In/Out Hammer Curls 15,8,5,8

for those of you who are like "WTF is In/Out H.C." 
i picked this up when i tried p90x a couple years ago...this is the only exercise that stuck with me besides the Ab routine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjszAoz75Rs


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## gymrat827 (Mar 7, 2014)

have you ever tried focusing on the big 3 and just doing some accessory work alongside all of it?


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## TriniJuice (Mar 10, 2014)

gymrat827 said:


> have you ever tried focusing on the big 3 and just doing some accessory work alongside all of it?



i plan on doing some type of PL routine on saturdays doing 2-3rep maxs focusing on Squats, DLs, & Bench Press just for strength purposes 
but thats not happening anytime soon, im still in the planning stages of incorporating Am/Pm workouts...Weights in the AM and Cardio (boxing, crossfit, or mma training) PM


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## TriniJuice (Mar 10, 2014)

Chest Day today

Flat Bench 15,8,5,8
Incline Bench 15,8,5,8
Decline Bench 15,8,5,8
* All Barbell

I've been reading about people doing exercises that pre-exhaust the chest before doing anything "heavy" so i might do declines first to give that a try 
my DB's max out at 52, the only real exercise i could get out of these are Chest-Flys but i hate them 
-saving up for these
http://www.amazon.com/Ironmaster-75-Quick-Lock-Adjustable-Dumbbell/dp/B000GE5QRM
http://www.amazon.com/Ironmaster-Dumbell-120-Add-Kit/dp/B000GE5V90/ref=pd_sim_sg_3/192-2906643-9044049?ie=UTF8&refRID=07GFT18T81TY1SGNN42C


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## TriniJuice (Mar 11, 2014)

so i revamped my chest workout

Incline DB Flyes 15,12,8,10
Decline Bench 15,8,5,8
Incline Bench 15,8,5,8
Flat Bench 15,8,5,8

Also starting Ab training 3days a week (Mon/Wed/Fri) for a PM cardio workout


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## TriniJuice (Mar 11, 2014)

I was doing some google research and came across this

For a quick answer as to how many reps to build muscle here is an overview.

1-3 reps – Pure strength & definition
4-6 reps – Mostly strength & definition with little gains in size
7-10 reps – Mostly size with little gains in strength & density
11-15 reps – Pure size

Any truth to this, whats your experience with rep ranges...


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## TriniJuice (Mar 11, 2014)

^^^bump for experience with rep ranges ^^^


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## TriniJuice (Mar 11, 2014)

Back Session (Tuesdays)

Deads 12,8,5
Pull-Ups 4 sets until failure
One-Arm T-Bar Rows 15,8,5,8
BB Rows 15,8,5,8

I've edited this routine before and pretty much going to stick to this, my workout seems to flow nicely in this order
the only change i'll end up making to this is subbing 1Arm T-Bar rows for Lawnmowers once i get a heavier set of DB's


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## TriniJuice (May 2, 2014)

Update
Well im going to start cruising in a couple weeks and im thinking of switching my entire workout over to a power lifting routine (pretty much just jumped ship)
gonna go with this 5/3/1; haven't even looked into yet but i've seen it recommended to enough people..so the choice just seems obvious
i've also went from a 2500cal recomp to a 3500cal plan but i have been way off my diet the past 2/3 weeks due to work but w/e it hasn't negatively or positively affected me
so w/the change of diet and change of cycle i might as well change the routine....drastically


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## TriniJuice (May 4, 2014)

Need some help with 5/3/1 routine; going to be starting this next week while i find out what my 1 rep maxes are this week
what i need help with is assigning assistance exercises and ab training, I'll be training 4days a week
Mon-Military Press
Tues- Deads
Wed-Bench
Fri-Squats

1) I'm not sure would it be more beneficial to do an upper/lower body training split focusing around the basic for lifts..ie; doing calf raises after military presses (mon) or incline presses after squats (fri)
OR should i focus on doing complimentary lifts..ie; doing incline presses after Bench Press (Wed)

2) I'm also looking to increase training intensity drastically; im thinking of doing body-weight exercises in-between sets of main lifts...ie; doing a set of pull-ups after Military Presses (pretty much doing a super-set)

3) I'm also finally going to start adding ab training back into my regime...thinking of doing it on my off days Sun/Wed/Sat or as a 2day spilt during training week Mon/Wed/Fri
going to go with Wendler's recommended circuit 


i believe what ultimately matters is that your progressing/focusing on the 4 basic lifts but this is my 1st attempt at a PL protocol, wanna make sure im doing shxt how its supposed to be done
I'm going for raw strength/mass increases while still trying to keep the mindset of a bodybuilder (physique wise), hence my conundrum...


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## PillarofBalance (May 4, 2014)

Trini I have a lot to say on this but I am at the gym about to deadlift. Your goal is great but your method to get there from what I just skimmed thru is full of mistakes. More later.


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## Seeker (May 4, 2014)

Trini, I think anyone who's going to do 5/3/1 should read the book to get a good understanding of what the program is all about. I read it 3 times before I started it. Go to amazon and download the E book for just a few bucks. Well worth it.


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## TriniJuice (May 4, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Trini I have a lot to say on this but I am at the gym about to deadlift. Your goal is great but your method to get there from what I just skimmed thru is full of mistakes. More later.



Anticipating your response 



Seeker said:


> Trini, I think anyone who's going to do 5/3/1 should read the book to get a good understanding of what the program is all about. I read it 3 times before I started it. Go to amazon and download the E book for just a few bucks. Well worth it.



I got "5/3/1 2nd edition"  and i just downloaded "Beyond 5/3/1" where he gets more into detail about assisting exercises but I've just been skimming threw them both and jotting down notes trying to plan things out...probably just confusing myself by jumping between the two trying to cram down quick info


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## Joliver (May 4, 2014)

5/3/1 is pretty rigorously laid out.  Are you running 531 as written or are you looking to take a few principles and make a hybrid program?  I think there is even a phone app for it....


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## TriniJuice (May 5, 2014)

This is not set in in stone but for now this is what im looking at

Mon
Military Press
Weighted Dips 5x10-20
Ez-Curls 5x10-20

Tues
Deadlifts
Front Squats 5x8-12
Calf Raises 5x8-12

Thurs
Bench Press
Lateral Raises 5x10-20
BB Row 5x10-20

Fri
Squats
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 5x8-12
Pull-Ups 5x until failure

Abs/Core
Mon/Wed/Fri as a AM/PM split
Might do P90x Ab Ripper-X or Wendler's recommended ab circuit 

i plan on pyramiding my assisting workouts based on the rep ranges


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## PillarofBalance (May 5, 2014)

TriniJuice said:


> Need some help with 5/3/1 routine; going to be starting this next week while i find out what my 1 rep maxes are this week
> what i need help with is assigning assistance exercises and ab training, I'll be training 4days a week
> Mon-Military Press
> Tues- Deads
> ...



Ok so the few pitfalls here that I see.  For starters you want to increase training intensity drastically as you said. What is your goal? Typically 531 is a strength program.  When I hear training intensity I think about nose torque and attacking a bar. Not heart rate.  So if you want to use 531 and having a higher heart rate while training, you won't be able to use your actual maxes to calculate the main lifts.  If you are going to do pull ups super set with over head press, you are going to take your lats out of the equation on the press.  That will result in a lower amount of weight being pressed.  That is just one example. There are a million others I could give. 

Congrats on adding ab training back in. I neglected it for a long time and was stupid for doing so. We joke about ab training in the gym, but the best PL's train abs.

POwerlifting will put mass on you, but not like it does a bodybuilder. Look at the legs for example. Bodybuilders have bigger legs than powerlifters.  They have bigger chests, bigger biceps and often times triceps.  But not backs. We have bigger traps and erectors. This comes from using them in all lifts with isometric contraction. (This info is from Dave Tate btw)

If you want to get stronger, then do the program exactly as its prescribed.  Wendler is not a moron and understands programming and therefore the program is pieced together to include a main lift, supplemental and then accessory work.  

Accessory work trains a muscle, supplemental work trains a movement. The main lift (if not a technical lift which would be say squat bench and dead) builds the technical lift. One feeds the other from the bottom up.

So, I guess the point of all this is that you should consider what your goal is more carefully. You kinda can't have both. You can be big and strong. But you can't be aesthetic like a bodybuilder and strong. Unless you're a genetic freak.  I would suggest that  you focus on your strength and then in a couple years if you feel like it, go back to aesthetic type training which you will find easier at that point.


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## TriniJuice (May 5, 2014)

Thanks for taking the time out to write that PoB,
It's gonna be hard for me to drop that bodybuilding mindset (not that i consider myself one) but I'll do some actual reading on the subject instead of skimming through 
Going to drop the super-sets, and I'm also either going to have to tailor my diet around this new regimen or vice-versa
Also, what do you think of the workout i have planned so far, (2post up) am I at-least headed on the right track


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## TriniJuice (May 17, 2014)

*Update* (ment to do this in the beginning of the week)

5"11 @ 196 
Maxes are;
OHP- 155 
Bench- 205
Squat- 365
Deads- 405


if is wasn't for this bum shoulder i know my Press and Bench would be higher, i try to lift more but my shoulder always gives out...shxt is frustrating but i try not to beat myself up to much; as long as i keep doing better its more than enough motivation..


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## TriniJuice (May 17, 2014)

My workout is as followed

Mon
Bench
BB Row
Lateral Raise

Tues
Deads
Front Squats
Calve Raises

Thurs
Squats
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Pull-Ups

Fri
Overhead Press
Weighted Dips
Ez-Curls

-Abs are done Mon/Wed/Fri
-Weight/Rep ranges for assisted exercises are being pyramided between 10-20 rep range
   -my first set depicts the flow of my reps
      *i.e; Front Squats - 15,10,20,10,15 or 20,15,10,15,20


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## M_T Pockets (May 17, 2014)

Good info keep it up Trini


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## TriniJuice (May 25, 2014)

*Update*
Currently 2weeks in this 5/3/1 program and I'm already making myself a new routine, the only workout i feel I'm getting is from doing my assistance exercises and that shouldn't be the case 
It feels like I'm limiting myself by following this program w/the preset rep ranges/weights
For instance my Dead-lift day was; (405max)

WarmUp - 145 * 18
1st Set - 285 * 3  (quick and easy)
2nd Set - 325 * 3 (super-set; rest time was adjusting weights)
3rd Set - 365 * 6 (4min rest between 2nd set)

After doing all this it feels like I'm just warming up and have to rely on my assistance exercises (Front Squats & Calve Raises) for a workout..
Recovery time seems to only take an 1hr or 2 and haven't gotten any delayed onset muscle soreness lately
-side note; I have been on 60mg var since the start of this program (2weeks)
So instead of wasting 2more weeks I'll be tailoring myself up a routine based on what I like from this program.
It"ll just be a 4day Upper/Lower body-split, nothing special but different from my traditional 5day split in which i train each muscle (Chest,Back,Legs,Shoulders,Arms)


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## TriniJuice (May 26, 2014)

This is how my Upper/Lower split will look;

Upper (heavy) 4sets * 3-8reps
Flat Bench
Overhead Press
Weighted Dips
BB Row
Ez-Curls

Lower (light)  5sets * 12-20reps
Front Squats
Stiff Legged Dead-Lifts 
Calf Raises
BB Hack Squats

Upper (light) 4sets * 10-15reps
Incline Bench
Lateral Raises
Pull-Ups
DB Curls
Reverse Grip Bench (triceps)

Lower (heavy) 5sets * 6-10reps
Squats
Dead-Lifts
Calf Raises
Hack Squats


1st 3sets will be pyramided down (in reps) than back up
Ex; 
Bench (heavy)- 8,5,3,6
Front Squats (light)- 20,15,12,15,20

Abs are suppose to be done on lower days but not sure if i wanna stay on my m/w/f protocol 

Thoughts/Critiques


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## NbleSavage (May 26, 2014)

Trini, if you're not "feeling" the 5-3-1 when running it as scripted, I have to think you're not yet approaching your true rep maxes. When I last ran 5-3-1, the explosive / AMAP set for each of the compound lifts was my jam  . Yes, you'll not get a "pump" like you do with high volume / BB style training, but as POB pointed out thats not the primary emphasis of Wendler's program either. 

I think its a bit soon to be mod'ing 5-3-1 (after only 2 weeks) but I'll toss-out as an alternative if you like to mix things up a bit more than 5-3-1 calls for, check out West Side. Their DE days & speed work will give you the pump you're looking for, and their ME days will keep the LBs moving in the right direction.

Peace.

- Savage


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## TriniJuice (Oct 10, 2014)

*Updated*

Tues- Upper (light) 4sets * 10-15reps
Incline Bench
Lateral Raises
Pull-Ups
Reverse Grip Bench (triceps)

Thurs- Lower (heavy) 5sets * 6-10reps
Dead-Lifts (light)
Squats
Calf Raises

Fri- Upper (heavy) 4sets * 3-8reps
Flat Bench
Overhead Press
Weighted Dips
BB Row

Sat- Lower (light) 5sets * 12-20reps
ATG Squats
Dead-Lifts (Heavy)
Calf Raises


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