# How/when do you know when to change it up



## IHI (Mar 25, 2015)

Hey guys, read until I was cross eye'd so figured best thing is to ask and get some direct opinions. Quick history since I may matter, 40yr old dad just getting back in the game lifting, was never a monster, never intend to compete, understand I lack genetics to be a hot bodied badass like most of ya's, so just trying to lift/exercise for better feeling of self and I actually enjoy the "me" time I get when I'm down lifting.

Been on TRT for about a year, but only been back lifting the last 3 months (last time was without TRT and I saw almost zero gains size/strength) so this time been eating about the same with a lot of tuna/steak/chicken each day (weekends tend to slip since we're out of town for kids travel tournaments) and have been spending the last "almost" 3 months following the Strong lift program, the 5x5 thing and have been making good gains strength wise and now starting to see actual growth body wise...so I'm happy with that honestly, especially since I reached a personal goal for benching and moved beyond it. Now I finally hit my first sticking point in the strong lift program....I'm not worried, knew it would come and will do as instructed and redo this weeks workout next week and if I cant fulfill it, go back a week and start over.

BUT, how often do you guys find yourself changing up your program? I currently do the strong lift 3x's a week but have been throwing in other excersices when I'm done to feel like I did something, get the pump/burn we all love to hate....maybe that is bad? I dunno?

I figured I'd run out this stronglift program for the full 3 month stint, and then I was going to revert back to a more body building type workout where each day is a focus of a muscle group and you tear it up with reps in the 8-12 range and 2-4 sets per exercise and depending on muscle group 4-6 exercises for that part that day....and then it's a week before you come back to it.

Should I do that? Should I just keep going on the strong lift routine and plug in my new numbers for the next 3 month stint?

now THAT being said, been contemplating using some anivar, I know that's the baby stuff, but I have a genetic gut, all themen in my family are normal size everywhere else on their/my body, but my gut gets all the fat...wish I could distribute better but it is what it is. So wondering if that would be worth running just to try and help burn up some fat? or should I lay low on the weights and focus more on cardio shit? 

Sorry for long post, but just trying to learn how to workout out smarter and reap the most for the work I'm putting in...not as much as I'd like, but only so much a busy dad can do...some of you guys know how that is LOL.

thanks fellas for any input, really appreciate it.
Josh


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## lightweight (Mar 25, 2015)

When it comes to running anivar, I can't help there because I have never ran any gear. But I like to listen to my body and let that dictate how my workouts change. When I feel my body start adapting to the workout. I try to change it up for a week or two and then revert back to my normal program just to confuse my muscles. I hope that gives you some other ways to think about your program. And I know some smarter guys will chime in too


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## IHI (Mar 25, 2015)

The strong lift honestly never has me feeling taxed PWO, yeah I'll feel a lil sore but maybe since I've grown up doing construction my whole life, literally since I was a kid with gramps and his business before going on my own and starting my own business when I was 20, everything I've ever known is physical work so I don't think my body sees anything from these short stint/bursts of hard work since I've done that for 30yrs LOL, the only time I really feel any sort of PWO pain is when I do mega sets, mega reps...the ramp up progression and then start doing drop sets back down to an empty bar, then I will feel a burn like I think a person should after a work out...this strong lift program, yes I'm making nice consistant week to week gains and have been for every week (have 2 weeks left to fulfil the 3 month program) but I'll be honest, I could do that workout everyday 7 days a week, it's just too short....it's working obviously, but just wish I could "feel" like it's working by means of sore body.

That's why I was thinking about abandoning the strong lift once I reach the end of this program and gong back to the BB style lifts with a lot more exercises per muscle group so I can destroy them so I have nothing left at the end of the workout....don't know if that's right/wrong/indifferent...but that is the only way my body tells me I did something which then translates to my brain being happy since it feels like I did something...for days LOL. the strong lift program, I could run flights of stairs after I'm done, and everyday after...whereas before, there were days I literally had to crawl up my basement stairs on my hands and knees since my legs were completely gone...that's the workouts I enjoy.


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## mickems (Mar 25, 2015)

This is my opinion. If a workout program is working for you from the start then, I would keep using it until it doesn't work anymore. Every once in a while, I usually switch reps/ set ranges on my favorite lifts and switch the exercises I don't like or the ones that hurt me (ex. rotator cuff pain, tendonitis etc.) If it works, ride it out. If it's not working then there no point in spinning your wheels.


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## IHI (Mar 25, 2015)

mickems said:


> This is my opinion. If a workout program is working for you from the start then, I would keep using it until it doesn't work anymore. Every once in a while, I usually switch reps/ set ranges on my favorite lifts and switch the exercises I don't like or the ones that hurt me (ex. rotator cuff pain, tendonitis etc.) If it works, ride it out. If it's not working then there no point in spinning your wheels.



That's what I was kind of wondering, ride the train as far as it will take ya and hop on another to keep going where ya want to go. Ifigured I'd eventually hit a place I wasn't going to keep up the pace I have been and kinda freaked to be honest. See what happens in the next few weeks and go from there I guess.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 25, 2015)

Strong lifts is basically a plagiarized starting strength from Rippetoe. If you want to continue he program I suggest sticking to the original and buying the book. Don't add lifts bc it's going to eat into your recovery.


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## mickems (Mar 25, 2015)

IHI said:


> The strong lift honestly never has me feeling taxed PWO, yeah I'll feel a lil sore but maybe since I've grown up doing construction my whole life, literally since I was a kid with gramps and his business before going on my own and starting my own business when I was 20, everything I've ever known is physical work so I don't think my body sees anything from these short stint/bursts of hard work since I've done that for 30yrs LOL, the only time I really feel any sort of PWO pain is when I do mega sets, mega reps...the ramp up progression and then start doing drop sets back down to an empty bar, then I will feel a burn like I think a person should after a work out...this strong lift program, yes I'm making nice consistant week to week gains and have been for every week (have 2 weeks left to fulfil the 3 month program) but I'll be honest, I could do that workout everyday 7 days a week, it's just too short....it's working obviously, but just wish I could "feel" like it's working by means of sore body.
> 
> That's why I was thinking about abandoning the strong lift once I reach the end of this program and gong back to the BB style lifts with a lot more exercises per muscle group so I can destroy them so I have nothing left at the end of the workout....don't know if that's right/wrong/indifferent...but that is the only way my body tells me I did something which then translates to my brain being happy since it feels like I did something...for days LOL. the strong lift program, I could run flights of stairs after I'm done, and everyday after...whereas before, there were days I literally had to crawl up my basement stairs on my hands and knees since my legs were completely gone...that's the workouts I enjoy.




if the stronglifts is working for you and your making gains as you say, then it doesn't matter if you don't "feel" taxed. I think a benefit of a workout program like stronglifts or s.s. is that you don't feel taxed like you would on a b.b. workout. And because a lot beginners use these programs, it's great for them to build more strength without the volume.


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## stonetag (Mar 25, 2015)

It may sound strange to you, but to most folks on here, it won't. Listen to what your body has to say, it will give you subtle, and sometimes not so subtle (ouch) info on what is working, and what isn't. It is something everyone entering the sport needs to recognize.


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## IHI (Mar 25, 2015)

Learn something everyday...the only reason I added extra exercises is because when we lifted as teenagers, the burn is what we were told meant we were ripping muscles to build bigger ones...so I thought, and obviously was wrong, that no burn meant no gain even though strength is going up, I thought I was leaving a shit ton on the table because I never felt like I worked out...it reminds me a seal team workout, I'm in and out before my body knows what happens and never get the pain. Guess the answer was in front of me, but just didn't seem right.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 25, 2015)

Several weeks into it when you really begin to start adding weight you will rethink this stance lol. Squatting heavy 3x a week becomes a testament to your will as much as it tests your body. When you barely eek out 330 for 5 and 2days later you know you need to do 335x5....yea it's a bitch.


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## jennerrator (Mar 25, 2015)

I change up my exercises every 6 weeks - As for # of sets/reps, that changes every week to keep the body guessing


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 25, 2015)

Personally, I change something (not everything) only when I stop making progress (more weight, more reps, etc).
This usually has to do volume/frequency since I very, very rarely change the actual movements unless an injury forces me too or I'm no longer motivated for it. 

I never understood the "I change things to stop the body from adapting" argument.
Adaptation is part of the road to growth - if your body isn't adapting then your not growing. 
Without adaptation, you end up spinning your wheels with the false impression that "soreness" and new lifting gains are growth when they're simply the result of neurological adaptations - not muscle growth. This is why everyone makes rapid gains during the first 4-5 weeks on any new programme.

Honestly Josh, since your a beginner you should pick a programme and stick to it for AT LEAST 6 months before changing anything. There is no need to start mixing things up and complicating the process at this stage


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## jennerrator (Mar 25, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Personally, I change something (not everything) only when I stop making progress (more weight, more reps, etc).
> This usually has to do volume/frequency since I very, very rarely change the actual movements unless an injury forces me too or I'm no longer motivated for it.
> 
> *I never understood the "I change things to stop the body from adapting" argument.*
> ...



Not sure about your terminology here but......when you have been training for 30 + years you would


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 25, 2015)

Jenner said:


> Not sure about your terminology here but......when you have been training for 30 + years you would



With what Ripped is trying to say, the longer you've been training for the less you need to change things actually. It takes the body longer to disrupt homeostasis when you've been training for so long or it takes longer to provide the adequate stressor necessary for the body to adapt.


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 25, 2015)

Jenner said:


> Not sure about your terminology here but......when you have been training for 30 + years you would



Lol my comment wasn't anything personal against you Jen, just from what I've seen & heard from many people when they try and justify the "adapting is bad" stuff. 
In terms of the years of training, I would think that the longer you have been at it - the longer the adaptation will take anyway so...

When I see most people say their changing it up to stop the body from adapting they mean something like this:
- Start a programme and make rapid progress over the first 4-5 weeks due to neurological improvements, learning new motor patterns, etc.
- Progress slows down because neurological improvements are finished and now the real growth will begin. People see this adaptation as a negative.
- Change everything and restart the whole process AKA spinning your wheels.
Before they actually get into the real growth portion of the programme, they've already decided to try something else. 

Now changing variables regularly can work if its programmed correctly (periodization, etc) but most people don't do this - they simply skip from one thing to another because, basically, they get bored.
IMO this is a pretty poor way to train.


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## jennerrator (Mar 25, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Lol my comment wasn't anything personal against you Jen, just from what I've seen & heard from many people when they try and justify the "adapting is bad" stuff.
> In terms of the years of training, I would think that the longer you have been at it - the longer the adaptation will take anyway so...
> 
> When I see most people say their changing it up to stop the body from adapting they mean something like this:
> ...



I don't take anything personal...just commenting


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 25, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Personally, I change something (not everything) only when I stop making progress (more weight, more reps, etc).
> This usually has to do volume/frequency since I very, very rarely change the actual movements unless an injury forces me too or I'm no longer motivated for it.
> 
> I never understood the "I change things to stop the body from adapting" argument.
> ...


Why wait till you stop making progress though? Beauty of the conjugate system.


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## MrRippedZilla (Mar 25, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Why wait till you stop making progress though? Beauty of the conjugate system.



Depends on the context.

You will find that both concurrent & conjugated systems can be made to work for different individuals. For example, Ed Coan always used a pretty linear workout progression model and he did pretty well.

Both can be used with great results  - I just don't like the randomness that most people have when it comes to their own programmes.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 25, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Depends on the context.
> 
> You will find that both concurrent & conjugated systems can be made to work for different individuals. For example, Ed Coan always used a pretty linear workout progression model and he did pretty well.
> 
> Both can be used with great results  - I just don't like the randomness that most people have when it comes to their own programmes.


God dammit. An ed coan reference. That's like better than the most concrete peer reviewed research out there.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Mar 25, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> God dammit. An ed coan reference. That's like better than the most concrete peer reviewed research out there.



He's good


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## Seeker (Mar 25, 2015)

I personally like your idea. I ran the stronglifts for 3 months and let me tell you the last 3 weeks squatting 3 xs a week heavy I was torched. My pelvis was in pain But I loveD it. Yes you can go onto a bodybuilding style program which of course is a whole new experience but I would still build it around the 4 main lifts.or you can move onto a more advanced style strength program. But 3 months is enough for the 5x5. time to move on


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