# Over 10 years of clean workout - Now going to use steroids - Suggestions



## Rasim Butt (Jul 14, 2015)

HI All !! I am 31 years old with weight 80kg. want to start with the following 12 week cycle ... need your suggestions . Much appreciated. 

T. Enanthate 250mg  - 2ml/week for 8 weeks
Deca 200mg   - 200mg to 400mg per week for 8 weeks
Nolvadex 1tab/day in 4th, 6th and 8th week
Climid 1 tab/day for 11th and 12th week

Need your kind and unkind honest suggestions


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 14, 2015)

well I have been suggested to take the following instead :

T. Enanthate 250mg - 2ml/week for 10 - 12 weeks

AI ; Exemestane (Aromasin 12.5mg EOD)

Nolvadex 1tab/day in 4th, 6th and 8th 10th week
Climid 1 tab/day for 13th and 14th week

Need your kind and unkind honest suggestions


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## Rumpy (Jul 14, 2015)

Hmm, not quite sure how you get 12 weeks out of that, your plan says only 8 weeks of test.

500mg/week for 12 weeks is kind of the standard boiler plate first cycle, but in my opinion, it’s too short and weak.  You’re still going to be completely shut down and incur all the risks of a cycle, so you might as well make it count.  At the very least I would buy enough gear to run 600+ mg/week for 14 weeks minimum.  If you decide not to run all of it you’ll have it for your next cycle.  Trust me, it’s better to have too much than too little.

Deca is a long slow ester, it takes a long time to build up in your system and a long time to clear.  I would not recommend it for a first cycle.  If you really want to run nandro, get NPP instead.  You can run NPP right up to your last test pin without effecting your PCT.

You need an AI.  I would start with aromasin around 12.5mg 2X/week, on pin days or the following days.  Run mid-cycle labs to see where your E2 is and adjust accordingly.

The whole Nolva in weeks 4, 6 and 8 makes no sense to me.  If you’re planning to use a SERM in place of an AI, that’s a bad idea, and your dose is way off.  Get an AI and save the Nolva for PCT.

As far as your PCT goes, you didn’t tell us what strength your nolva and clomid are.  I would wait a full 15-18 days after your last test pin before starting PCT.  The PCT drugs will do nothing if your test levels are still elevated above natural, so if you start too soon you’re just wasting it on the front end end not getting enough on the back end.  I would go with 50 mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva every day for 30 days.

I would also recommend adding in HCG to your cycle.  It will make your recovery a lot faster.  I would use 250iu 2X week.  You don’t really need it at the beginning of your cycle, so you can wait a few weeks to start it.  Try to time it so your last pin is 3-4 days before you start PCT


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## wabbitt (Jul 14, 2015)

Welcome aboard.  Look up pct...there are plenty of threads here on proper pct.  I assume you mean 2ml of test e or c 250 per week, which is 500mg.  Pretty standard first cycle-save the deca for another.  You won't need nolva during your cycle with the adex, save that for pct.  Best advice I can give you is make damn sure you have everything, including your pct, before you start.  Don't forget to post an introduction in the new member section.


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## Yaya (Jul 14, 2015)

Depo and rasim are friends

This isn't real


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 15, 2015)

Hey thanks guys !!

Thanks Depo  ,so I will increase the amount of test to 600mg+ per week - and increase the cycle to 14 weeks .. and remove deca completely...is that cool ??

But again I do not wish to get too big. will the 600mg+ per week will not make me too huge ??

Ive got your instructions for the PCT and i will follow it accordingly.

Thanks


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## DieYoungStrong (Jul 15, 2015)

Yaya said:


> Depo and rasim are friends
> 
> This isn't real



Depo is a true asset to the board.


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## DF (Jul 15, 2015)

Yea,  I don't want to get too big either.


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## HDH (Jul 15, 2015)

500mg a week for 12 weeks is a good starting cycle. I agree with not running the Deca. I would also suggest not running a short ester like NPP either. To many pins for the first go around and more have trouble with pinning fresh muscles on short esters than not.

You've got to remember, no mater what, this takes time. 10 years training natty should give you a good perspective.  

A slow and steady wins the race mentality is what it takes to make it in the long run, even on anabolics.

You will grow fine off the 500mg dose. If you are training and dieting properly, it will be plenty. 

What are your stats and how far have you come in the 10 years?

Your time in so far should make it even easier to grow off the anabolics.

If you want to raise doses and lengthen time, before you know it you will feel the need to always do more than what is necessary.

H


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## Seeker (Jul 15, 2015)

Listen to HDH


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 16, 2015)

thanks HDH ...thats me in the picture


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## wabbitt (Jul 16, 2015)

Rasim Butt said:


> thanks HDH ...thats me in the picture


What picture?


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 16, 2015)

my profile pic .. cannot see it ?


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## wabbitt (Jul 16, 2015)

No sir, I do not see a pic.


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## HDH (Jul 16, 2015)

Can't find one either. If you do have one on this forum, just link it to this thread.

Sorry bud, I missed that you were 176lbs (80kg) and 31.

You must be pretty cut up.

H


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 17, 2015)

I cant send any link until I post 20 or more posts


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 17, 2015)

see the link --- https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/members/7450-Rasim-Butt

can you see my pic now ?


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## HDH (Jul 17, 2015)

Ha, ha, you must be the half a snowman in all the boxes  

H


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 18, 2015)

what do you mean H ??


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## wabbitt (Jul 18, 2015)

No, there is no picture.


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 20, 2015)

My trainer is suggesting me a 

Winstrol / Suspension / MAstron / Primobolan Cycle for 8 weeks

with a proper PCT ...

NEed your suggestions ??


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## HDH (Jul 20, 2015)

Sounds like he's the one getting it for you.

Very expensive cycle.

Keep it simple bud.

H


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## Luscious Lei (Jul 20, 2015)

We already gave you our suggestion:

Test e or c 500/w for 12 to 14 weeks
HCG 250IUs 2x/w from week 2, last pin 4 days before PCT
AI: Exemestane 12.5mg EOD or Arimidex 0.25mg EOD
PCT to start around 3 weeks after last pin depending on the dose ran during the cycle
PCT consist of Clomid 50/50/25/25 + Nolva 40/40/20/20

Good luck


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 21, 2015)

Thanks alot HDH ..... and Luscious great help again !!


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## gymrat827 (Jul 21, 2015)

Rasim Butt said:


> My trainer is suggesting me a
> 
> Winstrol / Suspension / MAstron / Primobolan Cycle for 8 weeks
> 
> ...



dont do this.....your making your trainer rich.  

ill bet my paycheck your not going to get real primo.  *& where's the tes...???*


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## Rasim Butt (Jul 26, 2015)

Is Suspension not a test ??

this is the only cycle available ... keep the money issue aside ...still whats not right about this cycle ?

Ive seen ppl with very good ripped results with this cycle 

What do u say ?


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## PillarofBalance (Jul 26, 2015)

Rasim Butt said:


> Is Suspension not a test ??
> 
> this is the only cycle available ... keep the money issue aside ...still whats not right about this cycle ?
> 
> ...



Test suspension is test. You just said suspension though. There are others. Such as winstrol.

What's wrong with it is this cycle won't "get you ripped." It will take someone who is already ripped and make then dried out and shredded. 

Plus daily or twice daily injects of suspension suck.

And the primo is probably fake.


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## Luscious Lei (Jul 26, 2015)

Rasim Butt said:


> Is Suspension not a test ??
> 
> this is the only cycle available ... keep the money issue aside ...still whats not right about this cycle ?
> 
> ...



What's not right with this cycle? what do we say?

Here's what we say:

Winstrol is a contests prep drug, you have nothing to do with it unless you're planning on competing. It is very harsh on your lipids and is the harshest oral for your hair. It is also a drying compound that give joints ache to many people. It is mostly used to give this hard and dry look competitors are looking for during the weeks closing to contest day.

Test is great. Test suspension for a cycle is not. Test suspension has no ester attached. It means that to keep roughly stable levels you'll have to pin 3x/d at the minimum. If your test suspension is water based, it is also very painful. It also aromatize super fast making your E2 control harder. How does it sounds to have to do 3 painful injections every day for the next 3 months? 

Masteron is not a mass builder. It is used for it's hardening properties and to balance the libido issues experienced with other compound like 19-nors. It also helps to keep the E2 lower but does not substitute to an AI. Oh and also be informed that it is the harshest injectable on the hairline, it is very close to DHT structurally.

Primobolan over the course of 8 weeks is totally useless. It is a slow acting compound that should be ran for 18+ weeks, the longer the better. 8 weeks of primo will do strictly nothing for you besides digging a hole in your wallet.

We've already told you numerous time what your first cycle should be. There's no point in asking again and again, you'll get the exact same answer every time. This "this is the only cycle I can get" is bullshit. If you can put your hand on winny, primo, mast, you can find straight test e pr c. Test e or c are the bread and butter of AAS.


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## HDH (Jul 26, 2015)

Rasim Butt said:


> Is Suspension not a test ??
> 
> this is the only cycle available ... keep the money issue aside ...still whats not right about this cycle ?
> 
> ...


Ha,ha... you're a grown man. 

You don't need our go ahead for anything.

Do what you want.

I'm sure you will enjoy the frequent pins. I do, about 30+ a week, 40 when I'm running a pep. 

If I can do it, you can do it :32 (17):

H


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## tech (Jul 26, 2015)

agree with others, for your first cycle keep it simple, as much as your trainer pointed out good products that could be used in a great cycle by pro's he clearly shows he is a complete fool simply by the fact he said to use primo in an 8 week cycle, and primo will set any cycle cost through the roof.
you need a straight forward cycle of test, now whether you would was Test E or C, or Test Prop is your choice, personally i would advise Test Propionate, as it retains less water and is used more for cutting cycles than bulking cycles, but you will need to inject every 2 days, but can inject 100mg/EOD = 350mg/week as test prop has a higher percentage of actual test due to its lighter ester, but depending on your budget and availability, i would also suggest 4-6 weeks of turinibol at start of cycle or oxandrolone (anavar) for 6-12 weeks, all depends on budget as var can be expensive, another option if you are planning to do 14 week cycle is to add boldenone/EQ at 400-500mg/week as this will produce long lasting quality gains with little side effects, but you should front load EQ,

but if unsure stick with test alone

but there is no need at all to take clomid AND nolvadex together for PCT, one or the other will do 
(nolva is preferred, clomid is preferred for nandrolone cycles)
also first day or two on PCT should be higher doses than rest of first week
there is no real need to frequently use HCG during cycle of just test, though you may want some HCG after last injection just before PCT
and the use of AI every other day seems only needed due to use of using HCG during cycle
personally, i would add 100mg/day of provironum to cycle to bind to Est receptors
and only use an AI as and when it is needed, if it would even be needed on a cycle of test and provironum


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## Rasim Butt (Mar 29, 2016)

Thanks Tech


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