# Squats twice a week



## Tonys1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

Hi
I currently don't no what to do on the 3rd full body workout in terms of leg work  is it back to squats or rest? I am novice/beginner 3-months in

Workout A
Squats
Lunges

Workout B
Deadlifts


Workout c

3x8


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## snake (Feb 23, 2022)

Well, welcome to UG.

Could you rephrase your question? Could you lay out your entire workout and what days you do them on? That will help us help you.


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## Tonys1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

I currently do a full body workout plan.  3 times a week 

Workout A
Squats
Lunges
Dips
Pull-ups
Overhead press
Bicep curls
Hammer curls
Chest press

Workout B
Dips
Barbell rows
Bench press
Deadlifts
Overhead press/Machine
Press ups
Barbell curls

All exercises are 3X8-10 reps  when I can do 10 reps with that weight for 3 working sets up the weights

On my my third workout of the week do I rotate it back to the first workout and do squats and lunges again is squatting twice a week good

I am asking in terms of growing my legs and what exercises set and reps I should do do in a full body workout routine 3 times a week


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

I would ditch the push ups those are going to do nothing but waste energy. 

Do you have access to a hack squat?


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

If you’re looking to build your squat and build muscle, I’d do a second squat day with a variation (tempo squats, paused squats, box squats, narrow stance, front squats etc.)

If you’re looking to build muscle and don’t care about your squat numbers, either leg press or hack squats IMO.  They’ll give you the same leg growth with less overall strain on your body.

I agree with @RiR0 ditch the push-ups and swap them for something like cable flyes.  They’ll be way more effective.


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## Btcowboy (Feb 23, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> I currently do a full body workout plan.  3 times a week
> 
> Workout A
> Squats
> ...


Squatting as often as you need to is fine. If your legs need the work do it so long as you can recover.


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

Seth Feroce does push ups, his chest is half decent 🤷‍♂️


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> Seth Feroce does push ups, his chest is half decent 🤷‍♂️


Sure, but you can do push-ups at home. They’re a waste of gym time IMO.


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## Btcowboy (Feb 23, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Sure, but you can do push-ups at home. They’re a waste of gym time IMO.


True but a great push up variation I picked up from a Meadows program was ladder push ups need a smith machine or rack with low pin holes


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> True but a great push up variation I picked up from a Meadows program was ladder push ups need a smith machine or rack with low pin holes


It’s a great finisher for a chest workout I have seen several high level coach’s and bodybuilders finish off there chest with these. I don’t agree they are a waste of time, however in your situation I do think there are better exercises


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> It’s a great finisher for a chest workout I have seen several high level coach’s and bodybuilders finish off there chest with these. I don’t agree they are a waste of time, however in your situation I do think there are better exercises


I’m not saying that they’re useless by any means. They a fantastic finisher as you said, but cable flyes or something similar would be a better use of his gym time running a full body split.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> Seth Feroce does push ups, his chest is half decent 🤷‍♂️


That’s not what built his chest. John Meadows did hex press and even programs them but it’s still a garbage movement for size no matter who does it.
They’re useless like most calisthenics fir building size


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> It’s a great finisher for a chest workout I have seen several high level coach’s and bodybuilders finish off there chest with these. I don’t agree they are a waste of time, however in your situation I do think there are better exercises


I don’t care who does them. There’s more effective movements. If your goal is building strength and or tissue they’re a junk exercise.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Replace push ups with incline db press.


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> If you’re looking to build your squat and build muscle, I’d do a second squat day with a variation (tempo squats, paused squats, box squats, narrow stance, front squats etc.)
> 
> If you’re looking to build muscle and don’t care about your squat numbers, either leg press or hack squats IMO.  They’ll give you the same leg growth with less overall strain on your body.
> 
> I agree with @RiR0 ditch the push-ups and swap them for something like cable flyes.  They’ll be way more effective.



I'm a big fan of 2 squat sessions per week
Typically I like to kick off the week with heavy squats for strength (Around 80% 1RM)

Then I'll add a hypertrophy range squat with quad and ham accessories later


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Here’s a full body eod program by Jordan Peters
I’ll have to post it later it’s not loading


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I'm a big fan of 2 squat sessions per week
> Typically I like to kick off the week with heavy squats for strength (Around 80% 1RM)
> 
> Then I'll add a hypertrophy range squat with quad and ham accessories later


After I get done my recomp I’ll probably go back to heavy front squats (5 x 3 or something like that) the first day and back squats for reps on the second day.

That’s what has given me the best results.


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> After I get done my recomp I’ll probably go back to heavy front squats (5 x 3 or something like that) the first day and back squats for reps on the second day.
> 
> That’s what has given me the best results.


I'm typically heavy low bar and hypertrophy high bar ATG
Keeps up my knee mobility
I'll also play with my stance on ATG to open up the hips on occasion
I've found it correlates to my Sumo DL, no idea how much, but it just feels better on my lifts when I pull Sumo after incorporating open hip ATG high bar


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I'm typically heavy low bar and hypertrophy high bar ATG
> Keeps up my knee mobility
> I'll also play with my stance on ATG to open up the hips on occasion
> I've found it correlates to my Sumo DL, no idea how much, but it just feels better on my lifts when I pull Sumo after incorporating open hip ATG high bar


Wide stance is nice for getting a good hip stretch for sure. Not Westside style post-to-post wide, but enough to get the hips more involved. 

I can’t sumo for shit no matter what I do


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I don’t care who does them. There’s more effective movements. If your goal is building strength and or tissue they’re a junk exercise.


I never said there wasn’t more efficient movements in fact I said exactly that in my comment. I just said they not useless so hop down off your orange box before you fall off 😂


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> I never said there wasn’t more efficient movements in fact I said exactly that in my comment. I just said they not useless so hop down off your orange box before you fall off 😂


It’s a trash movement for strength of size. Learn more post less


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Here’s a full body eod program by Jordan Peters
> I’ll have to post it later it’s not loading


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> Seth Feroce does push ups, his chest is half decent 🤷‍♂️


Such logic


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Such logic


Are you still talking? Crawl back under your stone everyone is entitled to an opinion ya bell end.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> Are you still talking? Crawl back under your stone everyone is entitled to an opinion ya bell end.


Facts over opinions. Also uneducated opinions should be dismissed. Again learn more post less.


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

I have learn quickly your an arsehole, my guess is a Meso reject


RiR0 said:


> Facts over opinions. Also uneducated opinions should be dismissed. Again learn more post less.


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## Btcowboy (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> I have learn quickly your an arsehole, my guess is a Meso reject


Umm not defending his posts or him but I am a Meso reject and many more of us here too... whats your issue with us Messo rejects?


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## Butch_C (Feb 23, 2022)

If you want to improve your squat do squat variations and mix in different stances (narrow, wide, shoulder width). High bar back squats, low bar back squats, ssb bar squats, front squats, zercher squats,, hack squats.  Then there are accessory exercises that cross over like, hip thrusts, deadlifts, back extensions, hip adductor and abductors.


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Umm not defending his posts or him but I am a Meso reject and many more of us here too... whats your issue with us Messo rejects?


Nothing unless your a cunt like him, your all welcome


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## Btcowboy (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> Nothing unless your a cunt like him, your all welcome


Agreed but you did generalize us all with your statement. Most of us here are no bullshit, call it as it is, and try to contribute. Some of the Meso trolls have followed us here


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> Nothing unless your a cunt like him, your all welcome


Cunt? Yes. Asshole? Yes. Banned from meso? Yes, 
Have you ever given any useful correct advice? 
Buddy I’ve forgotten more shit than you’ll ever know when it comes diet, training, or supplementation. 
Not everyone should be entitled to an opinion when it comes to objective facts.


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

Btcowboy said:


> Agreed but you did generalize us all with your statement. Most of us here are no bullshit, call it as it is, and try to contribute. Some of the Meso trolls have followed us here


I apologise for generalising


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> I have learn quickly your an arsehole, my guess is a Meso reject



*original post deleted*



Edit: You posted your “apology for generalizing” at the same time. All good.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> So everyone from MESO is an arsehole.
> 
> Or what?
> 
> There are a lot of guys that cake over from MESO. We can all leave. Just say the word. It’s funny because @mugzy welcomed us with open arms.


I just ignored him. Look at his posts more of his advice is shit any way and the rest of his posts that I saw are useless


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I just ignored him. Look at his posts more of his advice is shit any way and the rest of his posts that I saw are useless


Guys can have differing opinions and can call each other out, talk trash, whatever. That’s what forums are for. 

It’s the generalizations that always seem to get me going. MESO shouldn’t define anyone especially since that forum went down the shitter.


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Guys can have differing opinions and can call each other out, talk trash, whatever. That’s what forums are for.
> 
> It’s the generalizations that always seem to get me going. MESO shouldn’t define anyone especially since that forum went down the shitter.


I’m feeling pretty stupid about getting the “Meso 4 Life” forehead tattoo these days.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> I’m feeling pretty stupid about getting the “Meso 4 Life” forehead tattoo these days.


I can’t even see “Millard” that I got tattooed around my asshole


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 23, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> Hi
> I currently don't no what to do on the 3rd full body workout in terms of leg work  is it back to squats or rest? I am novice/beginner 3-months in
> 
> Workout A
> ...


As a novice/beginner stick with what is working for you. If you are currently making progress then stick with what you are doing. Cookie cutter programs are the right thing for you as you are just starting out. Your focus really should be linear progression while the gains are easy. 

Once you stall out on your beginner program then you’ll need to move on to a intermediate program to continue progressing. These programs will introduce multiple days in the same week for the same body parts. They’ll be more goal-driven as well so the 2nd day will really depend on your goals once the time comes. 

Towards the end of your intermediate phase, you will start to know what works for you. You could do your own programming at that point. You are a few years from that though. 

Beginners often fail due to program jumping or adding/subtracting a bunch of additional stuff that they may or may not need. Stick to the program and be consistent over a long period of time and you’ll do fine.


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Cunt? Yes. Asshole? Yes. Banned from meso? Yes,
> Have you ever given any useful correct advice?
> Buddy I’ve forgotten more shit than you’ll ever know when it comes diet, training, or supplementation.
> Not everyone should be entitled to an opinion when it comes to objective facts.


And you learn all this from me saying I didn’t think push-ups where a waste?? Your retarded dude I wouldnt be surprised if you have never been a gym. I am done commenting carry on


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> And you learn all this from me saying I didn’t think push-ups where a waste?? *Your retarded dude *I would be surprised if you have ever been a gym. I am done commenting carry on


* you’re not your

As in “You are retarded dude”

Unless you are referring to “your retarded dude” in a possessive manner meaning he owns a retarded dude or the retarded dude belongs to him. In which case I apologize for attempting to correct the English in your statement and if that is the case you can tell me to fuck off.

Lol. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> * you’re not your
> 
> As in “You are retarded dude”
> 
> ...



Stop confusing me
I take steroids and lift things


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 23, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Stop confusing me
> I take steroids and lift things


You are perpetuating the stereotype that we are all knuckle-dragging meatheads. Some of us have educations and despite knowing better still choose to take steroids and lift things.


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You are perpetuating the stereotype that we are all knuckle-dragging meatheads. Some of us have educations and despite knowing better still choose to take steroids and lift things.


You can be both educated and a knuckle-dragger. I’m proof of concept on that one.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 23, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> You can be both educated and a knuckle-dragger. I’m proof of concept on that one.


Not me. I got these T-Rex kind of arms.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

Squat heavy like sets of 5x5 one day then 4x12 the other

A heavy and light day

Make the reps faster on the light day


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

3 months in, just showing up is a win.

You'll learn as you go but keep it extremely simple for now.


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## Test_subject (Feb 23, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> 3 months in, just showing up is a win.
> 
> You'll learn as you go but keep it extremely simple for now.


That’s really it. To start out it’s best to just do whatever program you enjoy and will stick with because you’ll make huge gains doing almost anything.


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You are perpetuating the stereotype that we are all knuckle-dragging meatheads. Some of us have educations and despite knowing better still choose to take steroids and lift things.



I flip flop between them tbh


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> I currently do a full body workout plan.  3 times a week
> 
> Workout A
> Squats
> ...


You are doing *way* too much shit for a beginner.  
Stick to a basic 5x5 routine for 6 months.  Get the STRONGLIFTS app and follow it.

Workout A
Squat
Bench
Bentover Row

Workout B
Squat
Overhead Press
Deadlift


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> That’s really it. To start out it’s best to just do whatever program you enjoy and will stick with because you’ll make huge gains doing almost anything.


Gotta have a reason to show up because once it's more advanced it's a job to show up and not as much fun but work, becomes like clocking in and out!


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> You are doing *way* too much shit for a beginner.
> Stick to a basic 5x5 routine for 6 months.  Get the STRONGLIFTS app and follow it.
> 
> Workout A
> ...



Have to disagree
That's too close to a strength based regiment for my liking.
It seems like a waste for a newbie that could make substantial strength gains at his level within a higher hypertrophy rep range.

He could add weight to the bar with 15 reps, while staying within a range that is optimal for muscle growth.

Obviously would depend on his personal goals
But you dint get to add mass and get massive strength growth at the same time for long.

IMHO it's best to take advantage of that stage in growth


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> You are doing *way* too much shit for a beginner.
> Stick to a basic 5x5 routine for 6 months.  Get the STRONGLIFTS app and follow it.
> 
> Workout A
> ...


Too much shit for a beginner? What do you know about training beginners?
I think strong lifts is a suboptimal program for anyone.
He’s gotten some good advice here to follow and some tweaks. I’d never have someone just do bench, squat, bent row, dl, ohp.
This is my issue you’re still a beginner yourself and haven’t figured out what works for you.


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

Ouch.  Anti 5x5 sentiment in full force.  (ducks out of here).


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> Ouch.  Anti 5x5 sentiment in full force.  (ducks out of here).


Nope but you giving advice on training or diet is like me giving advice on how to rebuild a motor.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Too much shit for a beginner? What do you know about training beginners?
> I think strong lifts is a suboptimal program for anyone.
> He’s gotten some good advice here to follow and some tweaks. I’d never have someone just do bench, squat, bent row, dl, ohp.


A true 5x5 could be his next step but 1st he needs to learn his way around a gym, how to lift, when and why.

But I still feel at the very 1st just to show up and do stuff, even if it's just randomly picking stuff to do, develop a reason to make it a lifestyle and which style to take.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> Ouch.  Anti 5x5 sentiment in full force.  (ducks out of here).


5x5 is great, maybe in 3 more months!


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> Ouch.  Anti 5x5 sentiment in full force.  (ducks out of here).



Love 5x5
That was my bread and butter
Shit is awesome

But not where he is at yet
like @SFGiants said


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> A true 5x5 could be his next step but 1st he needs to learn his way around a gym, how to lift, when and why.
> 
> But I still feel at the very 1st just to show up and do stuff, even if it's just randomly picking stuff to do, develop a reason to make it a lifestyle and which style to take.


I don’t have any issues with 5x5 but I would add accessory work.


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Nope but you giving advice on training or diet is like me giving advice on how to rebuild a motor.


No harm, man.  I have been doing 5x5 since November and it is working well for me.  My issue was not consuming enough food which I have corrected/am correcting.  I could not imagine going to the gym and doing 14 to 15 random different exercises.  I'd rather focus on getting very good at the main 5.  That is where I am coming from.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I don’t have any issues with 5x5 but I would add accessory work.


I always did, It can't just be all heavy shit.

The more advanced 5x5 dose have accessories but I think the original didn't, was based for athletes I think.


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> No harm, man.  I have been doing 5x5 since November and it is working well for me.  My issue was not consuming enough food which I have corrected/am correcting.  I could not imagine going to the gym and doing 14 to 15 random different exercises.  I'd rather focus on getting very good at the main 5.  That is where I am coming from.


Preference is definitely a thing
Optimization for where someone is at is a different story.

Personally I'm closer to 3x3 for my working sets on SBD days (Every 3rd week of SBD days) 

So once again, preference and place
Whatever keeps you loving the gym and doing RPE10 is a victory.


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

I thought SL 5x5 WAS/IS a beginner routine?  Learning to squat with an empty 45 pound bar and keep adding weight, working on form.  A very basic A day and a B day that are easy to follow and focus on vs. a day filled with 8 or 10 exercises of 3x10 or 5x10 etc?  I will eventually add on a few accessory when i feel the need to do so but for now, the 5x5 keeps me very occupied and focused and in a locked in routine that I follow very consistently week in and week out.  Plus the use of the app when I finish my sets and the built in timer is fantastic.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Preference is definitely a thing
> Optimization for where someone is at is a different story.
> 
> Personally I'm closer to 3x3 for my working sets on SBD days (Every 3rd week of SBD days)
> ...


I like rpe12-13 😂


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> I thought SL 5x5 WAS/IS a beginner routine?  Learning to squat with an empty 45 pound bar and keep adding weight, working on form.  A very basic A day and a B day that are easy to follow and focus on vs. a day filled with 8 or 10 exercises of 3x10 or 5x10 etc?  I will eventually add on a few accessory when i feel the need to do so but for now, the 5x5 keeps me very occupied and focused and in a locked in routine that I follow very consistently week in and week out.  Plus the use of the app when I finish my sets and the built in timer is fantastic.



5x5 can be both to be honest.
FAHVES!!!
(Extra credit to anyone who can guess the legendary PL coach who screams it)
5x5 can be used at an advanced level to increase strength for high level guys
(With lots of appropriate accessories)

Or a great way to learn the basics and get strong.

It's a great type of Set/Rep range that IMHO can be used at almost any level.

I was just pointing out, that the OP could get significantly stronger at a hypertrophy range.

But at novice level, you can easily get bigger and stronger with the 5x5 basics

And if you switch to hypertrophy ranges, you'll be strong enough to throw around heavier weights, which will enable you to grow quickly

There is more than one way to skin a cat for certain


RiR0 said:


> I like rpe12-13 😂



Lmao
I do like it on occasion too
I usually start doing it in a deload and just end up fucking up my CNS recovery.

There is something very satisfying about Meadows CD2 RPE 13 type fun


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> I thought SL 5x5 WAS/IS a beginner routine?  Learning to squat with an empty 45 pound bar and keep adding weight, working on form.  A very basic A day and a B day that are easy to follow and focus on vs. a day filled with 8 or 10 exercises of 3x10 or 5x10 etc?  I will eventually add on a few accessory when i feel the need to do so but for now, the 5x5 keeps me very occupied and focused and in a locked in routine that I follow very consistently week in and week out.  Plus the use of the app when I finish my sets and the built in timer is fantastic.


A beginner can handle and benefit from a decent amount of volume and frequency. They don’t really have to ability yet to train to know how to train to failure and don’t have the strength level to really tax themselves. 
I don’t really get beginners to start off with barbell work. I’ll use cables, machines, and dbs. I want them to learn mind muscle connection and how to feel and concentrate on the muscle they’re supposed to work. 
They’re not going to do that with bench, squat, dl, bent row or ohp. I don’t want them wasting time and risking injury just moving weight from point a to b. 
In fact if I could go back I’d never have really bothered with a barbell at all.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

5x5 is for beginners when ready to commit and understanding a little more, he is 3 months in.









						Lift weights, get stronger | StrongLifts
					

Hi there! I don't know how you found this website. Maybe you were looking for information about lifting weights. Maybe your friend uses my app to get stronger. Or maybe they recommended my website.




					stronglifts.com


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> I thought SL 5x5 WAS/IS a beginner routine?  Learning to squat with an empty 45 pound bar and keep adding weight, working on form.  A very basic A day and a B day that are easy to follow and focus on vs. a day filled with 8 or 10 exercises of 3x10 or 5x10 etc?  I will eventually add on a few accessory when i feel the need to do so but for now, the 5x5 keeps me very occupied and focused and in a locked in routine that I follow very consistently week in and week out.  Plus the use of the app when I finish my sets and the built in timer is fantastic.


When you bench how much of a contraction are you really feeling in your pecs? Squat how much are you really feeling it in your quads? How much are you really feeling those bent rows in your upper back and lats? 
What about your delts with ohp?


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

Just listen to @Flyingdragon  in this video!


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> When you bench how much of a contraction are you really feeling in your pecs? Squat how much are you really feeling it in your quads? How much are you really feeling those bent rows in your upper back and lats?
> What about your delts with ohp?


Bench - I squeeze pecs at bottom and top.  Retract scapula, make a shelf, push chest up, work on bar path, elbows about 45, feet dug in solid to earth, pushing with chest, pinky's at rings on bar.  I also do incline DB press (the only add on I do).
Squat - Ridiculous quad burn, especially if I am silly enough to do a Sunday run before gym.  This is the one I spend the most time on of all the exercises.  Corkscrew feet into ground, twisting before.  BREATH IN, GET TIGHT AS FUCK.
Rows - Working on this, thinking about pulling up with elbows, squeezing a pencil in center of my back.
OHP - My longest to add weight, current at 115lbs. Squeeze glutes, tighten core, push.  Delts have grown.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> Bench - I squeeze pecs at bottom and top.  Retract scapula, make a shelf, push chest up, work on bar path, elbows about 45, feet dug in solid to earth, pushing with chest, pinky's at rings on bar.  I also do incline DB press (the only add on I do).
> Squat - Ridiculous quad burn, especially if I am silly enough to do a Sunday run before gym.  This is the one I spend the most time on of all the exercises.  Corkscrew feet into ground, twisting before.  BREATH IN, GET TIGHT AS FUCK.
> Rows - Working on this, thinking about pulling up with elbows, squeezing a pencil in center of my back.
> OHP - My longest to add weight, current at 115lbs. Squeeze glutes, tighten core, push.  Delts have grown.


Then you’re an anomaly because most people don’t or can’t.
Most people are going to just move weight from a to b especially beginners. Why are you retracting your scapula for bench? 
You’re describing a pl squat which does not focus on quads


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

Well, I started in November at 45lbs. empty bar on everything and knew that form and mind-muscle was more important than meaninglessly getting the weight from A to B so I focused on what I was feeling more than anything else.

Before I bench, I sit upright and I push my shoulders back and then down then I lay back on the bench. Once on bench I dig my feet in solid and push even harder and push my chest UP - proud chest.  I found this to give a solid base "anchor" and provided the best feeling in my chest.  The bar comes down to just under or at nipple and on way up it goes back about 2" or 3"?


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## Trump (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Why are you retracting your scapula for bench?


Is that a joke? Someone needs to learn more and post less. Goodnight


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Then you’re an anomaly because most people don’t or can’t.
> Most people are going to just move weight from a to b especially beginners. Why are you retracting your scapula for bench?
> You’re describing a pl squat which does not focus on quads



Bench sounds off also, I stopped reading after that.

Bench is whole body driving with feet not chest.

Better be squeezing them lats instead of chest.

Chest isn't even a focal point until bar touches and that's just knowing when and where to stop.

Bench is more lats, legs, tricep and shoulder.

Flat bench is useless for bodybuilding, I was a powerlifter and never focused on chest on the bench, only when and were to pause.

Squeeze lats all the way day using as a spring, taking down with lats, squeezing triceps at the top to lockout.


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 23, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> Just listen to @Flyingdragon  in this video!



Nice history of the 5x5
Comprehensive.

My view in 5s is: Mark Rippetoe


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

@Pickles-And-Tuna , you're on the right track just keep learning.

I read more into your post, you seem to want to do things right just need to understand and learn more, this comes in time.

For years I was loose on the bench, flat and thinking chest also, I learned better along the way.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

@Pickles-And-Tuna 

My post above is Barbell Flat Bench, Dumbbells are a different thing.

Incline and Decline are more for development with a barbell or dumbbells.

I just kinda lose it when I hear chest as emphasis on a flat bench with a barbell.

I do believe which many don't do nor myself and sounds like you are doing is getting your set up down 1st, very important to do that and understand that.


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Then you’re an anomaly because most people don’t or can’t.
> Most people are going to just move weight from a to b especially beginners. Why are you retracting your scapula for bench?
> You’re describing a pl squat which does not focus on quads


I have no idea what a "pl" squat is, dude.  As far as I know I squat high bar and I feel it *entirely* in my quads.  I'm not sure how you are able to get inside of my own physiology and tell me where I am feeling these exercises or how I am doing them, though.  If you can do that you should start your own company, stat.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> I have no idea what a "pl" squat is, dude.  As far as I know I squat high bar and I feel it *entirely* in my quads.  I'm not sure how you are able to get inside of my own physiology and tell me where I am feeling these exercises or how I am doing them, though.  If you can do that you should start your own company, stat.



You are most likely a narrow stance, quad dominate.

The stance will dictate if you are using more quads or hamstrings.

Wide will be hamstrings but both hit glutes.

Both hit all 3 just, a stance is where is determines which is hit more.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> I have no idea what a "pl" squat is, dude.  As far as I know I squat high bar and I feel it *entirely* in my quads.  I'm not sure how you are able to get inside of my own physiology and tell me where I am feeling these exercises or how I am doing them, though.  If you can do that you should start your own company, stat.



Bar placement is just a preference, I was high also.

High bar and medium wide stance so that I could sit back with max weight and still have my knees behind my toes and not past them.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

Trump said:


> Is that a joke? Someone needs to learn more and post less. Goodnight



Yeah, I was on my traps looked extremally tight or I would wobble.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Then you’re an anomaly because most people don’t or can’t.
> Most people are going to just move weight from a to b especially beginners. Why are you retracting your scapula for bench?
> You’re describing a pl squat which does not focus on quads





Trump said:


> Is that a joke? Someone needs to learn more and post less. Goodnight



Maybe he's saying not to pull shoulders up towards the head.

I never thought of it as retracting but just getting tight and getting more towards the lats.

Retracting may refer to having the shoulders too high.

We just cued it as pull them in and down so that your into the lats.


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## RiR0 (Feb 23, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> Well, I started in November at 45lbs. empty bar on everything and knew that form and mind-muscle was more important than meaninglessly getting the weight from A to B so I focused on what I was feeling more than anything else.
> 
> Before I bench, I sit upright and I push my shoulders back and then down then I lay back on the bench. Once on bench I dig my feet in solid and push even harder and push my chest UP - proud chest.  I found this to give a solid base "anchor" and provided the best feeling in my chest.  The bar comes down to just under or at nipple and on way up it goes back about 2" or 3"?





SFGiants said:


> Maybe he's saying not to pull shoulders up towards the head.
> 
> I never thought of it as retracting but just getting tight and getting more towards the lats.
> 
> ...


I can’t read what Trump is saying he’s on my ignore list.
He also made some comment about me never training.
When you retract your or pinch your shoulder blades together it doesn’t allow for maximum pec shortening at the top of the movement. It doesn’t allow for maximum contraction of the pec.
He claims he gets a good contraction he can’t with how he claims to bench.
It sounds like he’s repeating what he’s read but doesn’t understand any of it. He can explain technique but doesn’t have true understanding of application.


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## SFGiants (Feb 23, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I can’t read what Trump is saying he’s on my ignore list.
> He also made some comment about me never training.
> When you retract your or pinch your shoulder blades together it doesn’t allow for maximum pec shortening at the top of the movement. It doesn’t allow for maximum contraction of the pec.
> He claims he gets a good contraction he can’t with how he claims to bench.
> It sounds like he’s repeating what he’s read but doesn’t understand any of it. He can explain technique but doesn’t have true understanding of application.



I do understand what you are saying, I see it as not letting the shoulder blades raise upwards.

As as how I described the set up and lift taking out the chest doesn't mean chest isn't in play, at least in powerlifting we are not focused on squeezing chest at top or bottom as the use of that lift, more lats and tri's with leg drive. I don't think bodybuilders even big a shit about a barbell flat bench at all.

I'm reading it as him making the lift as a focus on chest from bottom to top.

When I know where I stick I work on lats, tri's and shoulders, where I stick determines which gets more attention.

Again this is about barbell flat bench only.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 23, 2022)

SFGiants said:


> Maybe he's saying not to pull shoulders up towards the head.
> 
> I never thought of it as retracting but just getting tight and getting more towards the lats.
> 
> ...





RiR0 said:


> I can’t read what Trump is saying he’s on my ignore list.
> He also made some comment about me never training.
> When you retract your or pinch your shoulder blades together it doesn’t allow for maximum pec shortening at the top of the movement. It doesn’t allow for maximum contraction of the pec.
> He claims he gets a good contraction he can’t with how he claims to bench.
> It sounds like he’s repeating what he’s read but doesn’t understand any of it. He can explain technique but doesn’t have true understanding of application.



I know for powerlifting the cue “retract the scapula” is often used to help avoid internal rotation of the shoulders that can put tension on the shoulder joint and the labrum specifically.

Shoulder rotation is tough to coach and I believe the cue got popular absent any other “better” cue. Now that everyone has the ability to video record from their phone, it’s easier to just record the benchpress using lighter weight and review whether the shoulders roll forward or whether the shoulders stay back where they belong. 

Guys that complain they can’t flat bench due to painful shoulders never focused on this part of the benchpress. Absent a catastrophic fuckup, shoulder pain during benchpress is from the shoulders rotating forward during the lift. I’ve heard so many forever smole guys describing that and the doctors they visit to “fix” the issue simply say “don’t flat bench”. 🤷‍♂️


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 23, 2022)

I put my shoulders back and down, then I lay down, then I drive back with my feet and push my whole goddamn body tight into the bench.  I push my chest up before I take the bar and down and I keep my chest UP the whole time I'm fucking pressing.  This works for me - I don't have any shoulder pain or any of that..


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## Test_subject (Feb 24, 2022)

IMO dumbell bench is a better movement for a lot of people as long as they aren’t specifically training their barbell bench and need the specificity.  There’s more room for error and you can control the angle of the press to help keep your shoulders healthy.

Plus if a rep gets questionable you can ditch the weights more easily.


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## Send0 (Feb 24, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> IMO dumbell bench is a better movement for a lot of people as long as they aren’t specifically training their barbell bench and need the specificity.  There’s more room for error and you can control the angle of the press to help keep your shoulders healthy.
> 
> Plus if a rep gets questionable you can ditch the weights more easily.


Pec contraction is superior with dumbbells as well, since you can actually abduct as you reach the top of ROM, and really stretch as you get to the bottom of the range.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> I put my shoulders back and down, then I lay down, then I drive back with my feet and push my whole goddamn body tight into the bench.  I push my chest up before I take the bar and down and I keep my chest UP the whole time I'm fucking pressing.  This works for me - I don't have any shoulder pain or any of that..


Bro, WTF. If you took my post as something directed at you personally then you can get fucked.

I quoted the two guys that seemed to be unfamiliar with the term “retract the scapula” so I offered my explanation for the term. 

I’m sorry I didn’t have you proofread it before posting to make sure it didn’t fuck your feelz up.


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 24, 2022)

Dude...   what?   Are people this sensitive about this shit? How does this get misinterpreted so badly?    I bench how it feels good to me and not much else matters.   I don't take anything personally and not sure why you think that is the case.   I don't have feelz because my soul is quite black.


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## Send0 (Feb 24, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> Dude...   what?   Are people this sensitive about this shit? How does this get misinterpreted so badly?    I bench how it feels good to me and not much else matters.   I don't take anything personally and not sure why you think that is the case.   I don't have feelz because my soul is quite black.


I read your post as simply describing how you perform flat bench. Personally, I didn't pick up any emotions in it.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> Dude...   what?   Are people this sensitive about this shit? How does this get misinterpreted so badly?    I bench how it feels good to me and not much else matters.   I don't take anything personally and not sure why you think that is the case.   I don't have feelz because my soul is quite black.


I don’t have a soul. (That’s not a reference to imply that I’m some red-head ginger). I’m just old and cynical. When you’re married for 20+ years and have 4 kids, you’ll understand. 

I discussed shoulder pain and then saw you referencing that you don’t have fucking shoulder pain so I thought you took what I wrote personally. 

All good man. I’d offer a hug or a handshake 🤷‍♂️ but, meh, it sounds like it would be cold and meaningless anyway.


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## Send0 (Feb 24, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I don’t have a soul. (That’s not a reference to imply that I’m some red-head ginger). I’m just old and cynical. When you’re married for 20+ years and have 4 kids, you’ll understand.
> 
> I discussed shoulder pain and then saw you referencing that you don’t have fucking shoulder pain so I thought you took what I wrote personally.
> 
> All good man. I’d offer a hug or a handshake 🤷‍♂️ but, meh, it sounds like it would be cold and meaningless anyway.


I'll hug you... Come here 😘


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## Tonys1011 (Feb 24, 2022)

This forum is a shit show of egos, why did I even bother to post.

You're acting like children and arguing online that's a little sad.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> This forum is a shit show of egos, why did I even bother to post.
> 
> You're acting like children and arguing online that's a little sad.


No problem Tony. Glad we could help. Ask whenever you want.


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## Test_subject (Feb 24, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> This forum is a shit show of egos, why did I even bother to post.
> 
> You're acting like children and arguing online that's a little sad.


What you mean that the bench press argument didn’t answer your question about squatting twice a week?


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## Btcowboy (Feb 24, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> This forum is a shit show of egos, why did I even bother to post.
> 
> You're acting like children and arguing online that's a little sad.


You bet anytime


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> What you mean that the bench press argument didn’t answer your question about squatting twice a week?


The advice is worth what he paid to get it


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## Tonys1011 (Feb 24, 2022)

Again why u all mad ? Lol


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> Again why u all mad ? Lol


MAD IS ALL CAPLOCKS. 

Lol. Nobody mad at all. Is it the grammar? It’s the grammar. I knew it. You know what? I get on these guys about that all the time. They need to start writing on here using proper English instead of all the hood rat tough guy jibber-jabber. 

Sorry, we’ll try better to put out a quality product.


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## RiR0 (Feb 24, 2022)

Tonys1011 said:


> Again why u all mad ? Lol


Why you mad? You don’t even know how to a basic program routine. Lol


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 24, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> MAD IS ALL CAPLOCKS.
> 
> Lol. Nobody mad at all. Is it the grammar? It’s the grammar. I knew it. You know what? I get on these guys about that all the time. They need to start writing on here using proper English instead of all the hood rat tough guy jibber-jabber.
> 
> Sorry, we’ll try better to put out a quality product.



Nobody IS mad at all.
Or
There is not anyone that is angry.
or
There isnt an angry person/individual within this thread.
Or
At this particular moment, there happens to be zero perturbed forum members... perhaps it was the plethora of grammatical errors that led you to this incorrect assumption of anger.

Common BBBG
You're perpetuating the meathead steroid user persona

lol
Sorry had to
Slow day


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## MindlessWork (Feb 24, 2022)

@Tonys1011 there's a lot of good advice given here and why brush it all off? You asked a question and it was answered so no need to get all testy.


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## RiR0 (Feb 24, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Nobody IS mad at all.
> Or
> There is not anyone that is angry.
> or
> ...


Im an angry individual but not particularly with this thread.


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## silentlemon1011 (Feb 24, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Im an angry individual but not particularly with this thread.



Had to rain on my.fucking parade huh?


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## MindlessWork (Feb 24, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Had to rain on my.fucking parade huh?


When it rains it pours, lol.


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## Pickles-And-Tuna (Feb 24, 2022)

I feel like I hijacked this dudes thread and that was not my intent.  I am a 3.5 month newbie and I do a 5x5 because it is basic as shit and super easy to follow and track progress.  As a noob, it made no sense to me seeing another newbie doing 14 to 15 different exercises so I told him to simplify it and just do the damn 5x5.  Many felt this is bad advice, so what do I know...


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## SFGiants (Feb 24, 2022)

Pickles-And-Tuna said:


> I feel like I hijacked this dudes thread and that was not my intent.  I am a 3.5 month newbie and I do a 5x5 because it is basic as shit and super easy to follow and track progress.  As a noob, it made no sense to me seeing another newbie doing 14 to 15 different exercises so I told him to simplify it and just do the damn 5x5.  Many felt this is bad advice, so what do I know...



You're learning form guys with decades of experience and knowledge, you're good brother.

It's overwhelming at 1st and people contradict each other mainly because it's a new person wanting to be heard, right and teach.

Here is my advice, if top guys aren't doing it you shouldn't.

All advice shouldn't be an opinion all the time but knowledge handed down through generations, handed down to where it's so easy to google and see the top guys doing it and teaching it.

Anyone that is being sensible has learned somehow from the best, some like myself being exposed, friends and training with them.

We all start somewhere, just listen to the people that know their shit, a simple google check will let you know they are legit.

Don't listen to people on videos that look like they don't lift but standing in a gym either.

This stuff best comes from those that live or lived the lifestyle for several years.


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## SFGiants (Feb 24, 2022)

@Pickles-And-Tuna look up, Mark Bell, Dave Tate and Louie Simmons to start with!


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