# winstrol for kickstart



## lilbra (Feb 21, 2014)

Ok has anyone ever used winstrol to kickstart a test and mast e cycle? Already have slight bit of gyno so that's my reasons for using the winstrol. Tbol gives me a bad attitude and headaches!  Var I really can't get my hands on plus it's expensive.


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## stonetag (Feb 21, 2014)

I believe winstrol to be more of a finishing compound, towards the end of a cycle. Dbol or adrol may be a better choice for a kick start. jmo


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## Rumpy (Feb 21, 2014)

I agree with Stone, I don't think it would be a good kick.  Dbol, or a short ester test would be better.  Maybe test prop, TPP, or even TNE for that matter.  BTW, I LOVE TNE pre-workout (thanks Jol)


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## PillarofBalance (Feb 21, 2014)

If he has gyno issues then stay away from the dbol.  You need to control your e2. Pre-cycle bloods would be a smart move as well as bloodwork about 5 or 6 weeks in.


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## stonetag (Feb 21, 2014)

Rumpy said:


> I agree with Stone, I don't think it would be a good kick.  Dbol, or a short ester test would be better.  Maybe test prop, TPP, or even TNE for that matter.  BTW, I LOVE TNE pre-workout (thanks Jol)


I agree on the TNE Rump. gets me all fired up pwo!


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## Rumpy (Feb 21, 2014)

But PoB brings up a good point, TNE will spike your E2 like nothing else, worse than dbol.


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## shenky (Feb 21, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> If he has gyno issues then stay away from the dbol.  You need to control your e2. Pre-cycle bloods would be a smart move as well as bloodwork about 5 or 6 weeks in.



Hey POB, I have pubescent gyno and so am prone to gyno related issues, but was planning on running a dbol kick start in a few weeks. Would .5 arimidex eod be sufficient?


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## Rumpy (Feb 21, 2014)

Shenk, I have used 1/2mg of adex EOD with 500mg of test and 30mg of Dbol PWO on gym days only.  That was enough for me, but I'm not prone.  I would bump it to ED at the first sign of any itchiness or puffiness.


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## lilbra (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks PillarofBalance got bloods everything is normal just got a bit of gyno i was trying to get fid of with letro and such but hasn't been working.  So about to jump on a cycle of test/mast/winnie see how that goes.


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## ceo (Feb 21, 2014)

I like to finish with winstrol, but I guess it depends on the cycle.  with you running mast, seems like it would work.  Is it mast p or e?  long or short cycle?


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## lilbra (Feb 22, 2014)

Well its hard to trust people and the stuff i got comes from someone I trust so. Originally wanted to run test cyp and mast e.. but all I could get was test cyp and mast p also winstrol liquid was gonna go 13wks on test 8 wks on mast so along one i guess


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## ceo (Feb 22, 2014)

lilbra said:


> Well its hard to trust people and the stuff i got comes from someone I trust so. Originally wanted to run test cyp and mast e.. but all I could get was test cyp and mast p also winstrol liquid was gonna go 13wks on test 8 wks on mast so along one i guess



I would add the mast and winstrol in on the last part of the cycle.  Start with just test, higher dose.  Then lower the test dose and bring in the mast for the 8 weeks, then bring in the winny for the last 5 weeks.


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## lilbra (Feb 22, 2014)

So you wouldn't recommend throwing it in for 4 weeks in the beginning for a Lil kicker? I have plenty?


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## RJ (Feb 22, 2014)

I recommend throwing it away or selling it to someone you don't like. Winstrol sucks for various reasons. I'd add 100mg of tren a week (yes week) and go from there. Actually I wouldn't add anything to the test and mast. If you can't get results from that then u need to rethink ur gear use. But adding Anything is better than Winstrol. 

More importantly I'd worry about what's causing the gyno and fix that first. Jumping on cycle before you've fixed that is irresponsible. You said us got bloods done and all was normal. So what was ur E2 and ur prolactin like when u had them tested?


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 22, 2014)

i would think of winnie for as a closer or the icing on the cake...but there are no rules how or what to stack


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 22, 2014)

kick with var


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## JackC4 (Feb 22, 2014)

My elbows hurt just talking about winny. ****.    ^^^^^^ Var over winny


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## ceo (Feb 22, 2014)

JackC4 said:


> My elbows hurt just talking about winny. ****.    ^^^^^^ Var over winny



at least his winny is probably truly winny.


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## lilbra (Feb 22, 2014)

Yes ceo last time I got my hands on Var I gave it to a friend to try out and he blew up like a blow fish I'm sure it was dbol haha


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## lilbra (Feb 22, 2014)

RJ said:


> I recommend throwing it away or selling it to someone you don't like. Winstrol sucks for various reasons. I'd add 100mg of tren a week (yes week) and go from there. Actually I wouldn't add anything to the test and mast. If you can't get results from that then u need to rethink ur gear use. But adding Anything is better than Winstrol.
> 
> More importantly I'd worry about what's causing the gyno and fix that first. Jumping on cycle before you've fixed that is irresponsible. You said us got bloods done and all was normal. So what was ur E2 and ur prolactin like when u had them tested?


Rj all my bloods are normal e2 and prolactin was normal on the low side actually and never had gyno problems until i used tren so that's a no go for me. So iwwould say i have it under control somewhat. Just have 2 small lumps that you can feel but not see at all about maybe pea size on right and size of a bb on left with no puffiness.


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## lilbra (Feb 22, 2014)

By the way Just some info on the gyno it's mild my wife says she can't even feel it but I know it's there aggravates the shit out of me. So on that note I will only be using stuff like primo, mast,small amount of test,winstrol ,maybe eq things of that nature.


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 22, 2014)

lilbra said:


> Yes ceo last time I got my hands on Var I gave it to a friend to try out and he blew up like a blow fish I'm sure it was dbol haha



alot of bullshit labs will use winnie dbol mix as var...cocksuckas


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 22, 2014)

lilbra said:


> By the way Just some info on the gyno it's mild my wife says she can't even feel it but I know it's there aggravates the shit out of me. So on that note I will only be using stuff like primo, mast,small amount of test,winstrol ,maybe eq things of that nature.



just get a better AI..I know its not easy to find but try to get pharma aromasin


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## RJ (Feb 22, 2014)

lilbra said:


> Rj all my bloods are normal e2 and prolactin was normal on the low side actually and never had gyno problems until i used tren so that's a no go for me. So iwwould say i have it under control somewhat. Just have 2 small lumps that you can feel but not see at all about maybe pea size on right and size of a bb on left with no puffiness.



Interesting. You know I am on 75mg a week of tren e and about 6 weeks in I got a small little lump. Bloods came back with e2 at. 96ng/dl. Which is bizarre cuz I was on a dope agonist, pharm grade from a doc, and tren doesn't aromatize so I'm not sure why it was so high. I started 25mg of aromasin ED and it was gone in two weeks. Now I'm on EOD of it and I'm good. 

Everyone is so different that's why the same shit doesn't always work for everyone. There is no cookie cutter cycle/AI use/diet. Just trial and error to see what works for u. 

Well good luck with that Winny. I just hate that shit. Mlp


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 22, 2014)

RJ said:


> Interesting. You know I am on 75mg a week of tren e and about 6 weeks in I got a small little lump. Bloods came back with e2 at. 96ng/dl. Which is bizarre cuz I was on a dope agonist, pharm grade from a doc, and tren doesn't aromatize so I'm not sure why it was so high. I started 25mg of aromasin ED and it was gone in two weeks. Now I'm on EOD of it and I'm good.
> 
> Everyone is so different that's why the same shit doesn't always work for everyone. There is no cookie cutter cycle/AI use/diet. Just trial and error to see what works for u.
> 
> Well good luck with that Winny. I just hate that shit. Mlp





> The side effects associated with progesterone are similar to those of estrogen, including negative feedback inhibition of testosterone production and enhanced rate of fat storage. Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth. There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels. The use of an anti-estrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this disorder, is often sufficient to mitigate gynecomastia caused by progestational anabolic/androgenic steroids. Note that progestational side effects are more common when trenbolone is being taken with other aromatizable steroids.





> It is important to note that progesterone can also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogen on mammary tissue growth.225 As such, progestational drugs may be able to trigger the onset of gynecomastia in sensitive individuals, even without elevating levels of estrogen. Many anabolic steroids, particularly those derived from nandrolone, are known to exhibit strong progestational activity. While gynecomastia is not a common compliant with these drugs, they are occasionally linked to this side effect in anecdotal reports. The anti-estrogen tamoxifen citrate is usually taken in such instances, as it can offset the effects of estrogen at the receptor, which are still necessary for progestins to impart their growth- promoting effects on the breast.



Both those quotes are from _Anabolics _ 10th ed. by William Llewellyn


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 22, 2014)

RJ said:


> Interesting. You know I am on 75mg a week of tren e and about 6 weeks in I got a small little lump. Bloods came back with e2 at. 96ng/dl. Which is bizarre cuz I was on a dope agonist, pharm grade from a doc, and tren doesn't aromatize so I'm not sure why it was so high. I started 25mg of aromasin ED and it was gone in two weeks. Now I'm on EOD of it and I'm good.
> 
> Everyone is so different that's why the same shit doesn't always work for everyone. There is no cookie cutter cycle/AI use/diet. Just trial and error to see what works for u.
> 
> Well good luck with that Winny. I just hate that shit. Mlp



A dopamine agonist will not help lower estrogen levels or do anything for gynecomastia. They will only inhibit PRL production.


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## lilbra (Feb 22, 2014)

So doc quick question would you recommend taking small dose of nolva with my Ai during my cycle to block it off at the recepter.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 22, 2014)

lilbra said:


> So doc quick question would you recommend taking small dose of nolva with my Ai during my cycle to block it off at the recepter.



First and foremost get blood work to verify the legitimacy of your AI and to verify your dosing protocol of it is correct. Gyno cannot form in the absence of estrogen but certain things can exacerbate or amplify the issue even with relatively low estrogen levels. If proper estrogen management isn't sufficient then yes you can use Nolva or raloxifene to keep it under control


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## RJ (Feb 22, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> A dopamine agonist will not help lower estrogen levels or do anything for gynecomastia. They will only inhibit PRL production.



I was referring to my tren use. I'm only on 100mg of test which never caused a problem. It was merely the combo of the two. I have read both of those excerpts, but thanks, it's always nice to see them again. I was just more surprised by the elevated e2 number. The aromasin took care of that and the lump.

Thanks brother


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## lilbra (Feb 22, 2014)

Thanks doc will get bloods a couple weeks into cycle when I start might just use 10mg of nolva a day until then just to be safe


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 22, 2014)

RJ said:


> I was referring to my tren use. I'm only on 100mg of test which never caused a problem. It was merely the combo of the two. I have read both of those excerpts, but thanks, it's always nice to see them again. I was just more surprised by the elevated e2 number. The aromasin took care of that and the lump.
> 
> Thanks brother



I'm sorry, I misinterpreted you lol. I should have known you'd already know this stuff and have read the references hahaha.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Feb 22, 2014)

lilbra said:


> Thanks doc will get bloods a couple weeks into cycle when I start might just use 10mg of nolva a day until then just to be safe



I'd probably use 20mg


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## Oenomaus (Feb 22, 2014)

Whatever you do with Winnie just remember it drys you out. I couldn't drink enough water and I'm a 2-3 gallon jug a day guy. The one time I did run it, was end of cycle.


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## RJ (Feb 22, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> I'm sorry, I misinterpreted you lol. I should have known you'd already know this stuff and have read the references hahaha.



No worries man. I'm old and stubborn, so it's good to see reference material every now and again. Mlp


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## ceo (Feb 22, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> alot of bullshit labs will use winnie dbol mix as var...cocksuckas



winny and dbol raws are less than half the cost of var.  

Makes me laugh when people get var that is almost as cheap as dbol or winny.  You really think that's var?


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## beasto (Mar 1, 2014)

I can't even fool around with Winstrol at all, that stuff gave me a 6hr nosebleed and a nice trip to the ER where they burned the shit outta my nose with silver nitrate to try and get it to stop. Then once that didn't help and it wouldn't stop it they had to insert a nasal balloon I had to keep in 10 days. Plus I don't like how whack it throws my lipids. Just my opinion and what I went through everyone differs.


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