# First cycle in 3 years



## Metalhead1 (Sep 23, 2017)

First cycle in a while. I ran multiples between 2013 and 2014. Between test, deca, tren, and tbol. Just had bloods done before this and according to the Dr bloods were within range.

29 6'2 230 15%bf

Cycle 
Test P     100mg EOD at least 12 weeks
Epistane 20mg weeks 1-2, maybe increase between weeks 3-4
Arimidex EOD

My question is, what are your opinions on epistane? Worth it? I've never taken a prohormone, but chose it over dbol this go around. Thanks


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## Seeker (Sep 23, 2017)

Well my understanding is epistane is much different than dbol when trying to compare the two. I would think epistane would be more comparable to Winstrol. Never done ph's myself. But having low bf would be better served using it


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## Metalhead1 (Sep 23, 2017)

My bad, I wasn't comparing the two. Just the two options I had at the time. Just chose epi instead just going off research I've done.


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## Seeker (Sep 23, 2017)

Well if you're truly at 15% it might not be as effective. If you could lose a couple more % before you start you might get better use of it


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## Hurt (Sep 23, 2017)

Look forward to your progress. About to run my first cycle in 5 years myself. Do you have any before pics?


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## Metalhead1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Seeker said:


> Well if you're truly at 15% it might not be as effective. If you could lose a couple more % before you start you might get better use of it




Word. Thanks for the advice


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## Metalhead1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Hurt said:


> Look forward to your progress. About to run my first cycle in 5 years myself. Do you have any before pics?



Cool. Are you running test only? I may do a before and after in 12 weeks. Running the pft-7 routine with cardio 3-4x a week. So we'll how it turns out


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## BiologicalChemist (Sep 23, 2017)

Good luck I've never used epistane


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## Metalhead1 (Sep 23, 2017)

BiologicalChemist said:


> Good luck I've never used epistane



Thanks. I'll definitely add my experience on it after I'm done running it


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## brotein (Sep 23, 2017)

I did use epistane a year ago twice. I tried it on its own, but I had somewhat different expectations.
I had read that given a high caloric input some growth would be possible. But that was an understatement. I had to eat loads and loads of food to grow on this. Granted, it's primarily to become leaner, from what I have read - and experienced.
The second time I started off with epistane for 2 weeks and then added Methylstenbolone to it for 4 weeks. That did the trick for me. M-sten works wonders for me, I gained net 8kg during those short 6 weeks after PCT.
But at the end of that cycle I had shin pumps and back pumps, really annoying. Deadlifts were impossible for me.
I did love the overall feel of it, my body/muscles felt very hard, dry. But definitely needed some joint supplement. At the end of those 6 weeks I did feel that I would not want to take both any longer. But its mostly the fault of Msten, not epistane.

So, to sum it up: for getting dryer gains and getting a bit harder, I think epi is a good choice.

Personally, I won't do any more oral stuff for now, because I don't like having all that pass and (potentially) damage my liver.


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## Hurt (Sep 24, 2017)

Metalhead1 said:


> Cool. Are you running test only? I may do a before and after in 12 weeks. Running the pft-7 routine with cardio 3-4x a week. So we'll how it turns out



No I will likely use dbol as a kick start and may add other compounds if I decide to compete towards the end of this cycle. 

I've used epistane before with great results, btw. Retained no water and strength increased substantially. I ran it by itself (this was before I entered the world of injectables)...


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## Metalhead1 (Sep 24, 2017)

Brotein-thanks for the insight. What doses did you run the epi at?


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## Metalhead1 (Sep 24, 2017)

Hurt said:


> No I will likely use dbol as a kick start and may add other compounds if I decide to compete towards the end of this cycle.
> 
> I've used epistane before with great results, btw. Retained no water and strength increased substantially. I ran it by itself (this was before I entered the world of injectables)...



Oh cool. Yeah the little to no water retention was a selling point for me personally. What doses did you run?


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## Hurt (Sep 24, 2017)

Metalhead1 said:


> Oh cool. Yeah the little to no water retention was a selling point for me personally. What doses did you run?



Man I'd have to dig up my old log it has been so long. EpiStrong was the brand name. I'll see if I can find it.


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## brotein (Sep 24, 2017)

I started epi with 30mg and increased to 50mg. I had read that going beyond 50mg may cause rebound-problems as epi suppresses estrogen and going off after such a high dose may cause a rebound. I did not want to risk gyno or any other side effects.

I had the impression I had to go high on dosages of both epi and later on Msten as well, because at lower dosages I didn't notice anything. From other experiences I read about, you need to adjust the dosage of both epi and Msten (when run on their own or also combined) when you're above 200lbs. I was 215lbs back then. Upping to 50mg of epi and running Msten at a high 30mg dose did the trick for me.

And just like Hurt said, water retention and fat went down, thanks to epi. But for making gains I needed to add in Msten.


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## Metalhead1 (Sep 24, 2017)

brotein said:


> I started epi with 30mg and increased to 50mg. I had read that going beyond 50mg may cause rebound-problems as epi suppresses estrogen and going off after such a high dose may cause a rebound. I did not want to risk gyno or any other side effects.
> 
> I had the impression I had to go high on dosages of both epi and later on Msten as well, because at lower dosages I didn't notice anything. From other experiences I read about, you need to adjust the dosage of both epi and Msten (when run on their own or also combined) when you're above 200lbs. I was 215lbs back then. Upping to 50mg of epi and running Msten at a high 30mg dose did the trick for me.
> 
> And just like Hurt said, water retention and fat went down, thanks to epi. But for making gains I needed to add in Msten.



Cool man. I'm at 20mg at the moment. May bump it to 30mg in the next week after it's had time to kick in, along with the test. Thanks


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 3, 2017)

The prop is kicking in nicely. Feeling like my old self again in the gym, and life in general. Epi has kicked in also. Muscles feel tighter. Strength is up a bit. Up to 30mg on epi and still doing 100mg prop eod


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 3, 2017)

I love prop last cycle was the first time I ever used it..


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 3, 2017)

Same. This is my first time using it, but I definitely love it.


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## John Ziegler (Oct 3, 2017)

Think I'm alergic to the prop on more than one occasion and more than one brand it has not worked out 

Got pip and fever


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 4, 2017)

I make better gains on cyp but every cycle now I'm gonna get a few bottles of prop just to spice it up. This is kinda weird but I really like taking a shot of prop before going out .. Shit gets me wild


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Zeigler said:


> Think I'm alergic to the prop on more than one occasion and more than one brand it has not worked out
> 
> Got pip and fever



Damn that's strange. Hate that for you bro


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> I make better gains on cyp but every cycle now I'm gonna get a few bottles of prop just to spice it up. This is kinda weird but I really like taking a shot of prop before going out .. Shit gets me wild



Yup same. I do mine in the morning before work mostly. Just makes it a great day. Now, just waiting a few months to get back on the tren ace...miss that shit so bad


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 17, 2017)

Entering week 4. Almost done with the epi. Been using 40mg on workout days, and 20mg on off days. This will be the last week of it. I found it to be really effective at 20mg pre workout. Other than that, I don't plan on running it again in the future. 

Test P is going nice and strong now. Weights have increased. Run time has increased, and bf has dropped a bit, and still hovering around 230lbs. Plan to lower that number a little the next few weeks.


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 19, 2017)

Got the damn flu. There's not many things I hate more than being sick on cycle


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## Jin (Oct 19, 2017)

Metalhead1 said:


> Got the damn flu. There's not many things I hate more than being sick on cycle



Agreed. Had to take 5 days off last week to battle cellulitis after a stint in the ER for IV antibiotics. Sucks. 

Rest up.


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 19, 2017)

Jin said:


> Agreed. Had to take 5 days off last week to battle cellulitis after a stint in the ER for IV antibiotics. Sucks.
> 
> Rest up.



Goddamn. Feeling better now? That sounds pretty rough


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## Jin (Oct 19, 2017)

Metalhead1 said:


> Goddamn. Feeling better now? That sounds pretty rough



Yes, thanks. Still a bit weaker than normal but good for workouts.


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 27, 2017)

Back to normal after a week of the flu bullshit. Done with the epi. Strength is still increasing weekly, and I damn sure can't eat enough it seems


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 30, 2017)

I've been sweating quite a bit lately when I sleep. Kind of like I did on tren, but not quite as bad. Anyone else feel like a walking furnace?


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## Jin (Oct 30, 2017)

Metalhead1 said:


> I've been sweating quite a bit lately when I sleep. Kind of like I did on tren, but not quite as bad. Anyone else feel like a walking furnace?



Youre just running prop now?


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 30, 2017)

Jin said:


> Youre just running prop now?



Yes. Prop only at the moment. Surely it could be coincidental since it finally started to get cold around here, but I've never experienced it before, other than running tren


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## Chillinlow (Oct 30, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> I love prop last cycle was the first time I ever used it..



You run ED or EOD? How many weeks? What did you run with it? Jw I'm running it next cycle with tren a.


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## Jin (Oct 30, 2017)

Metalhead1 said:


> I've been sweating quite a bit lately when I sleep. Kind of like I did on tren, but not quite as bad. Anyone else feel like a walking furnace?





Metalhead1 said:


> Yes. Prop only at the moment. Surely it could be coincidental since it finally started to get cold around here, but I've never experienced it before, other than running tren



No clue why you're running hot. Doubt it's related to your cycle


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 30, 2017)

Chillinlow said:


> You run ED or EOD? How many weeks? What did you run with it? Jw I'm running it next cycle with tren a.



100mg eod.  On week 5. You gonna do low test/high tren?


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 30, 2017)

Jin said:


> No clue why you're running hot. Doubt it's related to your cycle



More than likely not. Thanks homie


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## Chillinlow (Oct 30, 2017)

I was asking Bundy but it's all the same, no will run them hand in hand 100mg each EOD for 12-14 weeks this run , last cycle I ran more but I'm see if can get the same results with a lower dose


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## Metalhead1 (Oct 30, 2017)

Chillinlow said:


> I was asking Bundy but it's all the same, no will run them hand in hand 100mg each EOD for 12-14 weeks this run , last cycle I ran more but I'm see if can get the same results with a lower dose



Maybe that will work for you. I always liked my test lower than my tren personally


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## Metalhead1 (Nov 3, 2017)

Going to continue on prop for a bit until I get some test cyp to cross over to. Planning on cruising around 250 of cyp a week. Adding deca in about a month at 450 a week for 20 weeks.

Blood work in 2 weeks.

Changed my diet to more chicken, more veggies, and peanut butter. Carbs are at 100 or less daily. Strength is up, Weight is the same, and definitely noticeably leaner


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## Metalhead1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Does anyone have experience using low test/high deca?


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## Metalhead1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Lighting helped on this one. Big progress from a few years ago, and still a long way to go


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## HouseOfIron (Nov 17, 2017)

best of luck


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