# Intermittent fasting



## BigSwolePump (Sep 16, 2017)

Anyone try this? Any feedback?

As I get older, I have really been thinking more about my health. I also need to have some sort of consistency/schedule. For the past few years, while I still lift and eat what I need too, it has not been with any real schedule.

 I have been reading a ton of info on this intermittent fasting and I feel like it might have some merit. It seems legit. I mean, at the end of the day you still are eating the calories that you need, just within a certain time frame. Giving yourself longer to digest your food has to be better for your gut health too.

I have read several articles about its fat loss effects as well. The idea is that your body uses up its glucose stores and begins to burn fat for energy. I have also read that it slows metabolism which if this is true would mean needing less calories to maintain which is fine by me lol.

At the very least, it can help to form a meal pattern/time. I struggle the most with this. I am eating all hours of the day and night without any consistent plan all while trying to eat enough or less calories. Not to mention the feeling of always being hungry when eating a smaller meal. With this protocol, you can eat your ass off until you are full. I would imagine that over time, your body gets on a schedule and the hunger will subside. Even mentally, you will be able to watch the clock and know that meal time is around the corner.

There are a lot of different ways to do this. I am leaning toward 16 hour fasting with obviously an 8 hour feeding window, if I decide to try this.


What do you guys think? Discuss?


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## knightmare999 (Sep 16, 2017)

Widehips71 talked to me about this a few months ago, but the study he sent actually had to do with increased igf (maybe hgh) levels, I believe.  I haven't tried it, but I've read several papers on it.  
I'll see if I can find the studies and post them up.


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## BigSwolePump (Sep 16, 2017)

knightmare999 said:


> Widehips71 talked to me about this a few months ago, but the study he sent actually had to do with increased igf levels, I believe.  I haven't tried it, but I've read several papers on it.
> I'll see if I can find the studies and post them up.


That would be awesome.


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## knightmare999 (Sep 17, 2017)

Fasting: The History, Pathophysiology and Complications - NCBI

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274154/

Abstract

An appreciation of the physiology of fasting is essential to the understanding of therapeutic dietary interventions and the effect of food deprivation in various diseases. The practice of prolonged fasting for political or religious purposes is increasing, and a physician is likely to encounter such circumstances. Early in fasting weight loss is rapid, averaging 0.9 kg per day during the first week and slowing to 0.3 kg per day by the third week; early rapid weight loss is primarily due to negative sodium balance. Metabolically, early fasting is characterized by a high rate of gluconeogenesis with amino acids as the primary substrates. As fasting continues, progressive ketosis develops due to the mobilization and oxidation of fatty acids. As ketone levels rise they replace glucose as the primary energy source in the central nervous system, thereby decreasing the need for gluconeogenesis and sparing protein catabolism. Several hormonal changes occur during fasting, including a fall in insulin and T3 levels and a rise in glucagon and reverse T3 levels. Most studies of fasting have used obese persons and results may not always apply to lean persons. Medical complications seen in fasting include gout and urate nephrolithiasis, postural hypotension and cardiac arrhythmias.


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## widehips71 (Sep 17, 2017)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC329619/


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## widehips71 (Sep 17, 2017)

I was/am interested in it for its increase in hgh production  and increase in insulin sensitivity. How much of a difference it actually makes is anybodys guess


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## Gibsonator (Sep 17, 2017)

well if you do give it a go a log would be cool brutha


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## stonetag (Sep 17, 2017)

Honestly BSP I think the 16hr. fast is the tried and true way to approach this, looking up 'diet' on the internet ranks real close to porn in its clusterfukness.


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## BigSwolePump (Sep 17, 2017)

stonetag said:


> Honestly BSP I think the 16hr. fast is the tried and true way to approach this, looking up 'diet' on the internet ranks real close to porn in its clusterfukness.


 LOL. No shit. I have been following guys like Mike Rashad and Terry Crews. These guys look awesome and swear by it.
Im doing a little more research on it but have already started it to a degree. We will see.


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## Seeker (Sep 17, 2017)

Intermittent fasting works like some of the other popular weight/fat loss diets. ( paleo, keto, low fat, low carb) by creating a caloric deficit.


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## BigSwolePump (Sep 17, 2017)

Seeker said:


> Intermittent fasting works like some of the other popular weight/fat loss diets. ( paleo, keto, low fat, low carb) by creating a caloric deficit.


 It is different though. I won't be changing my calories. The only thing that changes is when I eat them. That's what is sparking my interest. I am reading more about it but there are studies showing that it increases Igf, hgh and even insulin tolerance.


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## Seeker (Sep 17, 2017)

Well yeah. They are all different from each other. This method is based on restricting your calories to only a few hours every day.  There is something to be said about fasting


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 17, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> It is different though. I won't be changing my calories. The only thing that changes is when I eat them. That's what is sparking my interest. I am reading more about it but there are studies showing that it increases Igf, hgh and even insulin tolerance.



Igf1 and test levels go down with intermittent fasting. This doesn't translate into deleterious effects upon body composition but neither does IF provide benefits over normal diets I those respects.


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## BigSwolePump (Sep 17, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Igf1 and test levels go down with intermittent fasting. This doesn't translate into deleterious effects upon body composition but neither does IF provide benefits over normal diets I those respects.


I am reading this differently. If you look at the study that widehips posted here, it is saying that there is more hgh pulses during fasting right? Wouldn't this mean more igf1?


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## Bro Bundy (Sep 17, 2017)

I've never done anything fasted ., my stomach starts growling at me.. I'm a big believer in cardio and food for fat loss.. It just takes time and patience.. The mind is powerful tool.. force it into thinking fat loss and watch it happen


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 17, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> I am reading this differently. If you look at the study that widehips posted here, it is saying that there is more hgh pulses during fasting right? Wouldn't this mean more igf1?



Yes, Widehips' study shows more frequent pulses and also larger amplitude pulses but this doesn't mean more IGF1. Another study references a potential peripheral GH resistance/IGF1 refractory period.


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## BigSwolePump (Sep 17, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> I've never done anything fasted ., my stomach starts growling at me.. I'm a big believer in cardio and food for fat loss.. It just takes time and patience.. The mind is powerful tool.. force it into thinking fat loss and watch it happen


 My stomach speaks every few hours too lol

This just seems to have a lot of health benefits. I have a bloated stomach alot because of how much I have to eat. That is what made me start looking for something to combat it. I would think that fasting for 16 hours has to be enough time to completely digest all of the food that was eaten in an 8 hour window. Shit, I would be happy to just not be eating all of the time. I imagine that the hunger goes away over time once you train your body and get in that routine.

After I starting looking at this, I started seeing more proposed benefits like the igf and hgh spikes. I even see fat loss claims because of the lack of glucose storage during that time.

I am still in a research mode right now but if I don't find some hardcore evidence of it just being a complete waste, I am going to give it a try for a while and see how it goes.

I would consider a log here too but I would need even more discipline for that. A work in progress lol


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## BigSwolePump (Sep 17, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Yes, Widehips' study shows more frequent pulses and also larger amplitude pulses but this doesn't mean more IGF1. Another study references a potential peripheral GH resistance/IGF1 refractory period.


And this is why I hate reading studies lol


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## MrRippedZilla (Sep 17, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> I was/am interested in it for its increase in hgh production  and increase in insulin sensitivity. How much of a difference it actually makes is anybodys guess


Not enough to matter if your interest comes from a body comp perspective.

The benefits with regards to insulin sensitivity are related to AMPK activation, achieved through periods of over/under eating. IF windows do this, dieting with refeeds can do this, DNP can do this and so on. The problem with the IF approach is that it's simply too acute a time period and the sacrifice of MPS timeframes (up to 36 hours, your potentially not eating for 32/48hrs...see what I mean) makes it counter intuitive. At least that's my hypothesis to explain why the data is trending towards showing IF to be bad for muscle growth, good for fat loss (very few natural things are good for both). 

For health, no one can say because we don't have quality data (large samples, etc) to give us some real solid ideas. This is mostly because researchers are worried about long term adherence rates (it can be the healthiest thing in the world, if your not going to do it then it doesn't matter). This concern is valid when you look at the adherence rates for various fasting fat loss protocols (IF, ADF, etc) - it's awful. So if folks can't stick with it for the short term, absolutely no practical benefit to looking at the potential long term benefits. Adherence > everything else. 

Also note - fasting can mean *very *different things depending on the data set in question. Most of the time it is used alongside caloric restriction, which makes it impossible to determine what is actually causing the benefits (less cals or fasting per se). The "intermittent" title refers to the fact that it isn't done on a daily basis - it will be like 4 days of 25% CR per week. This is not the same thing as the traditional 16:8 window most think of when they hear IF. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28091348
- Looking into the impact on glucose & lipid metabolism.
- Only 2 studies discussed involved fasting without caloric restriction and, again, we're talking stuff like consuming 25% of ER cycled with 175% days (EOD IF is interesting and something I've used with certain clients for years). None involving the traditional 16:8 window. 
- Even the benefits seen in those studies relate to stuff like activating SIRT-3 (see this for an explanation), which can be achieved without IF so...meh.

It's an interesting area of research but caution is warranted when it comes to interpreting what "fasting" the researchers are referring to and from believing all the hype. If it sounds too good to be true, it almost always certainly is


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