# The Ultimate DNP Diet



## mugzy (Feb 4, 2021)

No I do not have the ultimate DNP diet however I think this is a good discussion topic. Please share your experiences, successes positive and negative here in this thread and I will attempt to write and article based on the experiences here in this thread.

Do you drop carbs while on DNP or increase carbs while on DNP?

What foods do you avoid while on DNP?

Do you increase water intake while on DNP?

Do you try to time your meals at specific times of day while on DNP?


----------



## samrooo77 (Feb 4, 2021)

mugzy said:


> No I do not have the ultimate DNP diet however I think this is a good discussion topic. Please share your experiences, successes positive and negative here in this thread and I will attempt to write and article based on the experiences here in this thread.
> 
> Do you drop carbs while on DNP or increase carbs while on DNP?
> 
> ...



I eat 2 bananas in oatmeal and shaker of protein for the breakfast, pasta with a source of protein with dessert (brownie or chocolate cake whatever) for the lunch, the same for the diner but I replace cake by fruit’s yogourt, I prefer slow glucid usually. 
On a cycle, I eat black chocolate and a lot of coffee, I try to not eat too much because dnp will use that you eat and not that you stock, idk if this is true but it work for me so...


----------



## samrooo77 (Feb 4, 2021)

mugzy said:


> No I do not have the ultimate DNP diet however I think this is a good discussion topic. Please share your experiences, successes positive and negative here in this thread and I will attempt to write and article based on the experiences here in this thread.
> 
> Do you drop carbs while on DNP or increase carbs while on DNP?
> 
> ...



Try not to restrict you while dnp, you can eat 75% of your metabolism or more if you want but no more, and YESS you have to increase water (you will feel it when you have to drink haha)!! Buy electrolytes (a lot of and dont care about potassium, you cant overdose it while dnp, this is the most important than vitamins etc, even if vitamins and antioxydant are importants, electrolytes go first than others supplements)


----------



## samrooo77 (Feb 4, 2021)

samrooo77 said:


> I eat 2 bananas in oatmeal and shaker of protein for the breakfast, pasta with a source of protein with dessert (brownie or chocolate cake whatever) for the lunch, the same for the diner but I replace cake by fruit’s yogourt, I prefer slow glucid usually.
> On a cycle, I eat black chocolate and a lot of coffee, I try to not eat too much because dnp will use that you eat and not that you stock, idk if this is true but it work for me so...



Oh I forgot, I eat vegetables too  this is very important


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Feb 4, 2021)

Diet has no impact on the efficacy of DNP. As a result, it should be the same as any other diet when in a deficit (high protein, carbs/fats based on adherence, etc, etc). Always good to start with the objective science before moving on to subjective experiences:

Metabolic actions of dinitrophenol with the use of balanced and unbalanced diets (happy to PM this to anyone who cannot access it)
_"Dinitrophenol...caused increases in metabolism of the usual magnitude irrespective diet type."
_
So, immediately, we're moving away from the idea of a diet making DNP more effective and focusing on combatting side effects, which is going to be dictated by your doses more than anything else. Since I stick to low doses, longer runs, I don't really have to worry about any of this stuff. Water intake creeps up a bit and that's it. Those who choose the higher dose, blast, option (extremely foolish IMO) will have to worry about keeping carbs low, avoiding certain foods that overheat, dramatic increases in water intake, etc, etc. I'm sure they'll speak for themselves as the thread progresses.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Feb 4, 2021)

I used dnp was not happy I felt the 20 days of misery wasn’t worth it for me . Some guys love it me I don’t get it


----------



## Beti ona (Feb 4, 2021)

The diet is always the same when I cut, DNP or not: keto / low carbs, water is also high as well as salt. Supplement with Vit C, multivitamins and magnesium. I don't run massive doses or cycles from hell, I prefer medium-long cycles: 150-450mg 

I will notice a lot of heat and a shitty night if I eat too much at dinner (if I eat carbs or a lot of fatty meat.)

I like to do just one shot, whether I take 150 or 450 mg, always at the same time. Taking it divided does not improve the sides.


----------



## samrooo77 (Feb 4, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> I used dnp was not happy I felt the 20 days of misery wasn’t worth it for me . Some guys love it me I don’t get it



You lost fat?


----------



## samrooo77 (Feb 4, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> The diet is always the same when I cut, DNP or not: keto / low carbs, water is also high as well as salt. Supplement with Vit C, multivitamins and magnesium. I don't run massive doses or cycles from hell, I prefer medium-long cycles: 150-450mg
> 
> 
> I will notice a lot of heat and a shitty night if I eat too much at dinner (if I eat carbs or a lot of fatty meat.)
> ...



I do the same and it work very well ! I do 14days at 200mg, 7 days off, and 14 days at 200mg, idk if dnp work well after 14-15 days..


----------



## Bro Bundy (Feb 4, 2021)

samrooo77 said:


> You lost fat?


Not that I can tell or worth what ever I did lose . I find diet and Cardio more effective


----------



## samrooo77 (Feb 4, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Not that I can tell or worth what ever I did lose . I find diet and Cardio more effective



But if you add cardio and diet with dnp it will work af


----------



## BrotherIron (Feb 4, 2021)

I would increase carbs especially sugary carbs.  If you've ever run DNP, you know taking in sugar is like throwing fuel on a fire. I ran it 2x and the second I got a rash from it which is a side some experience.  Personally, I would never run it again.

You can get noticeable results in a 2 week period of running it. Although, you're also likely to sit out in the dead of winter with nothing on but some boxers to cool off.


----------



## Beti ona (Feb 4, 2021)

I find that from time to time it is a good idea to eat in a piece of fruit to overcome the exhaustion caused by DNP, I am not yet a fan of fruit on a cutting diet.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Feb 4, 2021)

samrooo77 said:


> But if you add cardio and diet with dnp it will work af


I doubt it . It kills your energy levels to the point cardio is the last thing u will do .


----------



## rawdeal (Feb 4, 2021)

Never done DNP, considering it maybe, hoping all posts in this thread citing good or bad personal experiences will include the DNP *doses* and amount of time their observations were based on.


----------



## samrooo77 (Feb 4, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> I doubt it . It kills your energy levels to the point cardio is the last thing u will do .



I forgot too much restriction and too much gym and cardio while dnp is counterproductive


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Feb 4, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> I find that from time to time it is a good idea to eat in a piece of fruit to overcome the exhaustion caused by DNP, I am not yet a fan of fruit on a cutting diet.


Nothing wrong with fruit on a cutting diet. This is bro-bullshit again. I've had clients prep for shows with fruit as the ONLY carb source. 



rawdeal said:


> Never done DNP, considering it maybe, hoping all posts in this thread citing good or bad personal experiences will include the DNP *doses* and amount of time their observations were based on.


I've used DNP for every single one of my summer cuts since 2012. Preferred dose is 200-300mg. Length of time is however long it takes for me to hit my goal. Usually 6-8 weeks. 

The exception to this was 2 years ago when I ran 150mg for 10 months with caloric balance at maintenance level (I eat 15% more to compensate for the DNP). Goal was to monitor its impact on a range of blood markers. I didn't notice anything worth reporting. The experiment strengthened my case for lower dose, longer runs beating the shit out of high dose blasts.


----------



## MS1605 (Feb 4, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Those who choose the higher dose, blast, option (extremely foolish IMO)



'Zilla, since "Higher" is subjective, and you have mentioned your sweet spot is around 300, I'm curious as to what your definition of "Higher" is?


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Feb 4, 2021)

MS1605 said:


> 'Zilla, since "Higher" is subjective, and you have mentioned your sweet spot is around 300, I'm curious as to what your definition of "Higher" is?


To give a vague answer, I'd say the point at which the risk/benefit ratio becomes highly questionable and/or the point where you're having to take extensive steps to manage the side effects. People think DNP cycles are inevitable hellholes - not true. It is a choice to make the run harder than necessary. 

To give a more precise answer, 6mg/kg. Under no circumstances do I think a dose at that level or above is justified.


----------



## The Tater (Feb 4, 2021)

I’ve ran 200mg for 14 days low carb and it was a breeze with no real side effects other than being slightly warm. I ran it 12 days last time, same dose, with regular carb intake and I sweated noticeably more. Both times lost about 12 pounds. I can honestly run it for long time at 200mg but I like to drink every now and then.

this is my antecdotal experience, I’m certainly not a subject matter expert on anything other than pop tarts


----------



## creekrat (Feb 4, 2021)

I was on a CKD when I ran it and feel pretty good with the results that I got.  I have some more ready and waiting on me but I think I need to wait until this tren fully kicks in and I can see what sides I get from it since this is my first time on tren.


----------



## MS1605 (Feb 4, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> To give a vague answer, I'd say the point at which the risk/benefit ratio becomes highly questionable and/or the point where you're having to take extensive steps to manage the side effects. People think DNP cycles are inevitable hellholes - not true. It is a choice to make the run harder than necessary.
> 
> To give a more precise answer, 6mg/kg. Under no circumstances do I think a dose at that level or above is justified.



Thank you for the breakdown, 'Zilla.


----------



## Beti ona (Feb 5, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Nothing wrong with fruit on a cutting diet. This is bro-bullshit again. I've had clients prep for shows with fruit as the ONLY carb source.



I love fruit in the off season, but in general I am a low carb man, so in the cutting period I prefer vegetables and greens.


----------



## Lizard King (Feb 5, 2021)

DNP affects everyone differently, so to each their own.  I get DNP cravings, usually for Peanut butter before bed, no idea why, I usually don't eat PB, but crave the hell out of it on DNP.  I do lower my carbs, carbs make me sweat like Flying Dragon in a Turkish bath.


----------



## MS1605 (Feb 5, 2021)

Lizard King said:


> DNP affects everyone differently, so to each their own.



This. 

POB and I used to talk through PMs about DNP because both of us tolerate DNP so much alike. The reason we talked through PMs is the doses that him and I could take before even feeling hot were what would be considered pretty reckless.


----------



## SHRUGS (Feb 15, 2021)

My lady runs it at 200mg a day for 3 weeks sometimes 4 and does cardio every other day no problem all the way through.
Seems like a nice dose. Ive never ran it myself. Shit maybe shes a Dood...
!S!


----------



## Bro Bundy (Aug 11, 2021)

samrooo77 said:


> But if you add cardio and diet with dnp it will work af


Training on dnp sucks .. Most people that use dnp use it so they can avoid cardio


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 3, 2021)

mugzy said:


> No I do not have the ultimate DNP diet however I think this is a good discussion topic.



I just plan on eating cake. Literally all of the cake. 🍰


----------



## Send0 (Sep 3, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> I just plan on eating cake. Literally all of the cake. 🍰


Spongy's post is a classic 😂


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 4, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Spongy's post is a classic 😂


DNP + Cake = Results

He also enjoys a slight lingering taste of mint.  mmm the lingering after taste of mint burps


----------



## Send0 (Sep 4, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> DNP + Cake = Results
> 
> He also enjoys a slight lingering taste of mint.  mmm the lingering after taste of mint burps


I'm finding my craving is sour life saver gummies. I could eat like 5lbs of those things. 😂


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 4, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I'm finding my craving is sour life saver gummies. I could eat like 5lbs of those things. 😂



Just be careful of the "diet" version... falling down the "explosive" Haribo Sugarless Gummies rabbit hole just once was enough to scare me away sugar-free candy for a lifetime. 😂


----------



## Send0 (Sep 4, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Just be careful of the "diet" version... falling down the "explosive" Haribo Sugarless Gummies rabbit hole just once was enough to scare me away sugar-free candy for a lifetime. 😂


oh trust me, DNP is explosive enough on its own... Like literally, and what it does to you during happy poopy time 😂


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 4, 2021)

I can't even quote you, @Send0 ... I'm just over here facepalming and cringing so hard from what you wrote, OMFG. 😂🤦‍♀️


----------



## flenser (Sep 4, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Just be careful of the "diet" version... falling down the "explosive" Haribo Sugarless Gummies rabbit hole just once was enough to scare me away sugar-free candy for a lifetime. 😂


These sugar free gummies don't explode in your colon...


----------



## Send0 (Sep 4, 2021)

flenser said:


> These sugar free gummies don't explode in your colon...


I love gummies, and I love junk food. Thank you for this, seriously.


----------



## flenser (Sep 4, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I love gummies, and I love junk food. Thank you for this, seriously.


It's actually not junk food. Each one has 1g protein, no fat, no carbs. Oh, now I've ruined it for you...


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 4, 2021)

flenser said:


> These sugar free gummies don't explode in your colon...



You're incredibly clever, what a fantastic idea!


----------



## Send0 (Sep 4, 2021)

flenser said:


> It's actually not junk food. Each one has 1g protein, no fat, no carbs. Oh, now I've ruined it for you...


Shhh... It's junk food. Now go away and let me live my fantasy 😂. The fact that I get some collagen in is just a bonus.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 5, 2021)

Send0 said:


> oh trust me, DNP is explosive enough on its own... Like literally, and what it does to you during happy poopy time 😂


That’s why I recommend keeping pepto handy for the first 3-5 days. It can wreck havoc in the intestines. Sometimes why I say start towards end of week so you can enjoy your weekend on the shitter than calling out from work


----------



## Send0 (Sep 5, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> That’s why I recommend keeping pepto handy for the first 3-5 days. It can wreck havoc in the intestines. Sometimes why I say start towards end of week so you can enjoy your weekend on the shitter than calling out from work


I just thought I was getting a fancy colon cleanse, and I surfed the brown wave like a pro. 😂


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 6, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I just thought I was getting a fancy colon cleanse, and I surfed the brown wave like a pro. 😂


The real question is can you walk right now?


----------



## Send0 (Sep 6, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> The real question is can you walk right now?


Yeah, totally. I'm up to 3 caps now. I'm lethargic as hell, and I get winded from talking or even drinking liquid, but I feel fairly normal.

Tomorrow is my last day... and then I'll wait for the water to fall off and see what I'm left with.


----------



## Trump (Sep 6, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Yeah, totally. I'm up to 3 caps now. I'm lethargic as hell, and I get winded from talking or even drinking liquid, but I feel fairly normal.
> 
> Tomorrow is my last day... and then I'll wait for the water to fall off and see what I'm left with.


Unnecessary to push it that far that your winded talking


----------



## Send0 (Sep 6, 2021)

Trump said:


> Unnecessary to push it that far that your winded talking


It's an exaggeration to get a point across. I'm fine.


----------



## Trump (Sep 6, 2021)

Send0 said:


> It's an exaggeration to get a point across. I'm fine.


Mods shouldn’t lie


----------



## flenser (Sep 6, 2021)

It's only the 5th day, but so far I haven't felt anything at all on 200mg per day. Cardio is fine, no sweating, not tired, etc. I was in a deficit when I started, so I can't tell for sure yet if weight loss has accelerated. It looks that way, but it could be a startup delta. Is it weird to want to increase the dose just to experience sides and know that it's working??


----------



## Send0 (Sep 6, 2021)

flenser said:


> It's only the 5th day, but so far I haven't felt anything at all on 200mg per day. Cardio is fine, no sweating, not tired, etc. I was in a deficit when I started, so I can't tell for sure yet if weight loss has accelerated. It looks that way, but it could be a startup delta. Is it weird to want to increase the dose just to experience sides and know that it's working??


Wait at least until day 7 to increase the dose. At 200mg, I started feeling mild warmth starting on day 5.5. It was subtle, but it was there.


----------



## flenser (Sep 6, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Wait at least until day 7 to increase the dose. At 200mg, I started feeling mild warmth starting on day 5.5. It was subtle, but it was there.


@Trump mentioned two weeks in another thread. I'm planning to be cautious and take his advise. But without that advice, I would probably already be on 400mg just due to my general lack of patience : )


----------



## Trump (Sep 6, 2021)

flenser said:


> @Trump mentioned two weeks in another thread. I'm planning to be cautious and take his advise. But without that advice, I would probably already be on 400mg just due to my general lack of patience : )


I always recommend 2 weeks for the 1st rum then stop to assess how you react


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 6, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Yeah, totally. I'm up to 3 caps now. I'm lethargic as hell, and I get winded from talking or even drinking liquid, but I feel fairly normal.
> 
> Tomorrow is my last day... and then I'll wait for the water to fall off and see what I'm left with.


man why the hell you go up to 3!?  i cant remember, was this your 1st time? 

yeah winded sucks after talking. people look at you like wtf man, it was one sentence.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 6, 2021)

flenser said:


> It's only the 5th day, but so far I haven't felt anything at all on 200mg per day. Cardio is fine, no sweating, not tired, etc. I was in a deficit when I started, so I can't tell for sure yet if weight loss has accelerated. It looks that way, but it could be a startup delta. Is it weird to want to increase the dose just to experience sides and know that it's working??


i personally dont have any issues with cardio till after around day 15-20 on 400mg. its going to be hit and miss as far as what you feel and dont feel. if you are already in a deficit, youll still lose some pounds but probably wont feel as much sides. it really just depends on the body.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 6, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> man why the hell you go up to 3!?  i cant remember, was this your 1st time?
> 
> yeah winded sucks after talking. people look at you like wtf man, it was one sentence.


I'm already done. Last night was my last day. Wanted to see what 600mg felt like for the last 2 days.

All in all, for me specifically, the sides are not especially bad. It wasn't until 3 caps that I finally got night sweats that reminded me of Tren. Ironically I sleep well on Tren, but I slept like crap starting about day 10 of DNP. To clarify the night sweats, and sleep quality issues, are separate from one another.

Other than that, and occasionally feeling winded, it wasn't that bad.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 6, 2021)

To comment further, after the fact, if I did this again then I think I'd run 200mg for as long as I could tolerate. The sides at this low dose were nearly undetectable.

This truly was an experiment for me. So I purposefully did no cardio. Did carb refeeds, but cut carbs on all other days, and continued to lift. I basically intentionally did nothing to see how much effect DNP would have on its own.

Now to let the water weight fall off.


----------



## flenser (Sep 8, 2021)

I got my first (I think) DNP side today. I taped up my ankle and went mountain biking with coworkers at lunch. It's only a 5 mile trail, and I usually sprint most of the way. But today I made it half way around with no issues, then suddenly became extremely tired, almost too tired to stay on the bike. Coworkers were waiting for me at the end of the trail, looking bored.

It has been a couple of hours, and I still haven't recovered. Nap time is imminent. I'm still in a calorie deficit, about 500 relative to my normal maintenance level, and the weight is dropping faster than diet alone can explain. 

Wondering if eating more would help, or if I should just get used to the fatigue? Those lunchtime rides are sort of a company tradition. I don't want to skip them if I can help it.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 8, 2021)

flenser said:


> I got my first (I think) DNP side today. I taped up my ankle and went mountain biking with coworkers at lunch. It's only a 5 mile trail, and I usually sprint most of the way. But today I made it half way around with no issues, then suddenly became extremely tired, almost too tired to stay on the bike. Coworkers were waiting for me at the end of the trail, looking bored.
> 
> It has been a couple of hours, and I still haven't recovered. Nap time is imminent. I'm still in a calorie deficit, about 500 relative to my normal maintenance level, and the weight is dropping faster than diet alone can explain.
> 
> Wondering if eating more would help, or if I should just get used to the fatigue? Those lunchtime rides are sort of a company tradition. I don't want to skip them if I can help it.


I've tried napping, 1x weekly carb refeeds, and a few other things. They all helped a marginal amount, but for me the fatigue never went away. 

Maybe @metsfan4life or @Trump will chime in, but I'm thinking the lethargy is there to stay until you come off DNP.


----------



## Trump (Sep 8, 2021)

flenser said:


> I got my first (I think) DNP side today. I taped up my ankle and went mountain biking with coworkers at lunch. It's only a 5 mile trail, and I usually sprint most of the way. But today I made it half way around with no issues, then suddenly became extremely tired, almost too tired to stay on the bike. Coworkers were waiting for me at the end of the trail, looking bored.
> 
> It has been a couple of hours, and I still haven't recovered. Nap time is imminent. I'm still in a calorie deficit, about 500 relative to my normal maintenance level, and the weight is dropping faster than diet alone can explain.
> 
> Wondering if eating more would help, or if I should just get used to the fatigue? Those lunchtime rides are sort of a company tradition. I don't want to skip them if I can help it.


More food will help and ephedrine too can assist with lethargy. Most people just don’t bother with cardio especially one as taxing as what you doing there


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 8, 2021)

@flenser, I've come across many anecdotal reports that adding the EC stack or Modafinil to a DNP run can help to circumvent the lethargy. I have some of the latter on the way; unfortunately the TA time isn't great when sourcing from overseas (I'm in the US) so allowing for ~4 weeks or so before you need it would probably be wise.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 8, 2021)

I wonder if my ADHD meds would've helped me with lethargy. I was off of them while doing DNP because I'm trying to reset my dopamine receptors. Guess I'll find out when I try DNP again at the start of 2022.


----------



## flenser (Sep 8, 2021)

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have modafinil, albuterol and clen, but no ephedrine handy. Not going near the clen (never again), so I'll give modafinil and albuterol a try. I really can't imagine any of those countering what I felt today, but it's worth a try. The ride is not optional : )

Need to find the "perfect DNP preworkout" now...


----------



## Trump (Sep 9, 2021)

flenser said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> I have modafinil, albuterol and clen, but no ephedrine handy. Not going near the clen (never again), so I'll give modafinil and albuterol a try. I really can't imagine any of those countering what I felt today, but it's worth a try. The ride is not optional : )
> 
> Need to find the "perfect DNP preworkout" now...


Clen won’t work anyway will just make you feel worse. Can you not get some ephedrine pretty sure it’s in Sudafed In the USA


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 9, 2021)

Lethargy is normal, especially if you do cardio, ECA will help with hunger and energy but could increase insomnia problems. It's a balancing game, it's not easy.


----------



## flenser (Sep 9, 2021)

Trump said:


> Clen won’t work anyway will just make you feel worse. Can you not get some ephedrine pretty sure it’s in Sudafed In the USA


Depends on the Sudafed. The ones with pseudoephedrine are regulated. You can get them otc if you present ID and sign for them. Buy too many over time, and they come and arrest you for "manufacturing meth". 

I do have some I will try, though. Didn't think it was the same as taking unmodified ephedrine. The pseudo prefix kind of implies that...


----------



## flenser (Sep 9, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> Lethargy is normal, especially if you do cardio, ECA will help with hunger and energy but could increase insomnia problems. It's a balancing game, it's not easy.


I'm hoping I can time it to get me through the lunch time ride, and wear off before time to sleep.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 9, 2021)

Y’all poons. Just kidding, lethargy on DNp can suck. I usually doze off during the day anyways working from home but it certainly is a bare when I’m out in the field working. As long as you’re taking DNP, probably gonna stay tired the longer you go. Some of the stuff mentioned helps, not entirely. And finding the right one for you isn’t just going to be trial and error unless you’re familiar with it already. Clen ain’t the way to go tho, that’s for sure. As far as sleep, can’t help there bc I can PTFO like no other in a regular day, give me 10mins


----------



## Trump (Sep 9, 2021)

flenser said:


> I'm hoping I can time it to get me through the lunch time ride, and wear off before time to sleep.


Benedryl will help with sleep


----------



## flenser (Sep 9, 2021)

I can handle lethargy, at least the common meaning of tired and unmotivated. It's the crushing no-strength fatigue I felt while riding I want to temper. I have felt that on 100 mile road rides when I was unprepared, but never before on a 5 mile trail.

What I thought was really strange was after an hour nap yesterday I was able to get in a reasonable back workout with barely any whole body fatigue.


----------



## flenser (Sep 9, 2021)

Trump said:


> Benedryl will help with sleep


I love Benadryl.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 9, 2021)

flenser said:


> I love Benadryl.



I do too. I had been taking it for years (three 25mg pills per night) to get a good night of sleep, but then I read about a study earlier this year that found a significant link between diphenhydramine - the active ingredient in Benadryl - and early onset dementia and Alzheimer's. Because those already run in my family, it worried me enough that I tried to find another solution.

This will sound ridiculous, but these are all the things I take in conjunction every night for sleep support:

3g Tryptophan
1g GABA
1g Glycine
300mg Magnesium Glycinate
200mg L-Theanine
100mg 5-HTP
12mg Melatonin

...And I *still* have trouble falling and staying asleep beyond 4 hours at a stretch. Recently I've added a single Benadryl 25mg back into the mix, and I'm finally getting quality rest.

But all that to say, if diphenhydramine doesn't concern you, it really is the best thing I've found yet to induce drowsiness and provide unbroken sleep.


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 9, 2021)

flenser said:


> What I thought was really strange was after an hour nap yesterday I was able to get in a reasonable back workout with barely any whole body fatigue.



When I'm on a diet, with or without DNP, it feels like a roller coaster, the energy comes and goes, nonsense.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 9, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> I do too. I had been taking it for years (three 25mg pills per night) to get a good night of sleep, but then I read about a study earlier this year that found a significant link between diphenhydramine - the active ingredient in Benadryl - and early onset dementia and Alzheimer's. Because those already run in my family, it worried me enough that I tried to find another solution.
> 
> This will sound ridiculous, but these are all the things I take in conjunction every night for sleep support:
> 
> ...


I’m pretty sure there is a concoction out there that is close ti this. I made something similar myself and tried it but I didn’t notice a difference. I’m wondering if maybe you have a tolerance


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 9, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> I’m pretty sure there is a concoction out there that is close ti this. I made something similar myself and tried it but I didn’t notice a difference. I’m wondering if maybe you have a tolerance



I think you're right Mets, I've been taking that combination for several months now but despite how synergistic they're supposed to be, they don't come close to the efficacy of less than 100mg of diphenhydramine.

It's disheartening reading glowing reviews of those supplements where people talk about life-changing sleep quality on only 500mg of tryptophan or 3mg of melatonin, etc. I know people will respond to things differently, but damn!


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 10, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> I think you're right Mets, I've been taking that combination for several months now but despite how synergistic they're supposed to be, they don't come close to the efficacy of less than 100mg of diphenhydramine.
> 
> It's disheartening reading glowing reviews of those supplements where people talk about life-changing sleep quality on only 500mg of tryptophan or 3mg of melatonin, etc. I know people will respond to things differently, but damn!


yeah i really think you likely have  a high tolerance for it or you have run its course. i have no reaction to caffeine no matter how much of it i take. its just one of those things that things work or they dont. people end up taking benadryl and then end up needing more...


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 10, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> yeah i really think you likely have  a high tolerance for it or you have run its course. i have no reaction to caffeine no matter how much of it i take. its just one of those things that things work or they dont. people end up taking benadryl and then end up needing more...


Anyone else have lucid nightmares on DNP?


----------



## flenser (Sep 10, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Anyone else have lucid nightmares on DNP?


Is that a thing? Only nightmare I ever get anymore is about missed deadlines. It's kind of boring. Nothing cool like when I was younger and got chased by dogs or trapped under water, etc.


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 10, 2021)

flenser said:


> Is that a thing? Only nightmare I ever get anymore is about missed deadlines. It's kind of boring. Nothing cool like when I was younger and got chased by dogs or trapped under water, etc.


The one last night was like a missed deadline.  I was in college but I hadn't received my grades in years.  I knew there was a way to get the grades, but I didn't know what it was.  Also, I never went to class, so I assumed I had really low grades.

The only other one I clearly remember.  I was in the woods and this black and white bear was chasing me.  It was quick, but the size of a french bulldog.  Even though it was small, I knew it was a bear and was going to hurt me.


----------



## flenser (Sep 10, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> The one last night was like a missed deadline.  I was in college but I hadn't received my grades in years.  I knew there was a way to get the grades, but I didn't know what it was.  Also, I never went to class, so I assumed I had really low grades.
> 
> The only other one I clearly remember.  I was in the woods and this black and white bear was chasing me.  It was quick, but the size of a french bulldog.  Even though it was small, I knew it was a bear and was going to hurt me.


I think I'm going to have to up the dose to get one with a bear in it.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 10, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> Anyone else have lucid nightmares on DNP?


never heard of that with DNP honestly.


----------



## Dungeon Dweller (Sep 10, 2021)

flenser said:


> I love Benadryl.


Benadryl is good. I love my Trazodone.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 10, 2021)

flenser said:


> I think I'm going to have to up the dose to get one with a bear in it.



How much do I have to take to get more *bare* in my dreams?

...Asking for a friend. 👀


----------



## Send0 (Sep 10, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> How much do I have to take to get more *bare* in my dreams?
> 
> ...Asking for a friend. 👀


I'm that friend. Thanks all 😘


----------



## flenser (Sep 10, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> How much do I have to take to get more *bare* in my dreams?
> 
> ...Asking for a friend. 👀


It probably depends on how bare you are when you go to sleep... and where you sleep. Naked on your front porch will likely lead to more bare dreams than PJs in bed : )


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 11, 2021)

Shit on DNP you’re gonna wanna sleep bare as a bear can be.


----------



## flenser (Sep 12, 2021)

So the sides are finally kicking in - sheets in the washer, pillows in the dryer, wife kicked me out of bed, etc. I'm starting to believe I lose more fat by eating more calories, especially carbs.

Last 3 days I ate a LOT more carbs, and even had a few beers every night, and lost 4 lbs from where I was while in a deficit. I'm going to return to eating clean next week and see if the weight loss slows as I expect.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> So the sides are finally kicking in - sheets in the washer, pillows in the dryer, wife kicked me out of bed, etc. I'm starting to believe I lose more fat by eating more calories, especially carbs.
> 
> Last 3 days I ate a LOT more carbs, and even had a few beers every night, and lost 4 lbs from where I was while in a deficit. I'm going to return to eating clean next week and see if the weight loss slows as I expect.



I know you're at the high point of saturation since you've been on it steadily at this point, but do you think the dramatic increase in carbs also directly correlates to noticing the sides much more? That would match most of the logs and reports I've read.

Living in a desert climate, having long/thick hair which often makes my head and neck feel warm and flush, and being really susceptible to temperature changes convinced me to go low carb / keto-ish for my run.

I'm not in the same stratosphere with you fellas when it comes to training and muscle mass, and I also have that pesky wrench of wild hormonal shifts when the time o' the month rolls around, so I'm hopeful that keeping things low carb will be beneficial. We'll see!


----------



## flenser (Sep 12, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> I know you're at the high point of saturation since you've been on it steadily at this point, but do you think the dramatic increase in carbs also directly correlates to noticing the sides much more? That would match most of the logs and reports I've read.
> 
> Living in a desert climate, having long/thick hair which often makes my head and neck feel warm and flush, and being really susceptible to temperature changes convinced me to go low carb / keto-ish for my run.
> 
> I'm not in the same stratosphere with you fellas when it comes to training and muscle mass, and I also have that pesky wrench of wild hormonal shifts when the time o' the month rolls around, so I'm hopeful that keeping things low carb will be beneficial. We'll see!


This being my first run, it's hard to say for sure. I had virtually no sides before upping the carbs. But then I didn't up the carbs until around day 8 which is about when others feel sides.

I still don't feel hot exactly, I just sweat non stop like I have a fever breaking. I do feel the carbs increased the sweats. I just don't have enough experience yet to confirm it.

I would guess in the desert your biggest risk will be dehydration. I think it's a good idea to go low carb even if it turns out to slow the pace of weight loss a little. If carbs are what causes everyone to sweat so much, they're also the source of the dehydration.

BTW, pseudoephedrine did nothing for cardio endurance. I took 4 yesterday afternoon and did a 17 mile road ride on flat terrain, with calm winds and temperatures in the 70's. I still bonked hard a little over half way, no power, no energy, minor cramping, etc. I put on a good front and went out for drinks and dinner after, but ended up going to bed 2 hours early with calves still cramping on and off.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> BTW, pseudoephedrine did nothing for cardio endurance. I took 4 yesterday afternoon and did a 17 mile road ride on flat terrain, with calm winds and temperatures in the 70's. I still bonked hard a little over half way, no power, no energy, minor cramping, etc. I put on a good front and went out for drinks and dinner after, but ended up going to bed 2 hours early with calves still cramping on and off.



Oof, sorry to hear about the cramping! Are you supplementing with electrolytes? Some folks on DNP love V8 juice for that. Personally, I like JUNP Electrolyte Powder from Amazon and have been using it daily for months. Seemed to be the most cost effective with decent stats. I've also read good things about LyteShow liquid concentrate from other logs.

IIRC, pseudoephedrine is more useful for alleviating lethargy (whilst on DNP) than helping cardio endurance? But I could be misremembering. I'm a low/non responder to the EC Stack so I'm not bothering with it personally. My Modafinil should be here on Friday - which would give it a 3 week TD from India, not bad - so I'm hoping that I'll respond well to that and it will help stave off low energy. Fingers crossed!


----------



## flenser (Sep 12, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Oof, sorry to hear about the cramping! Are you supplementing with electrolytes? Some folks on DNP love V8 juice for that. Personally, I like JUNP Electrolyte Powder from Amazon and have been using it daily for months. Seemed to be the most cost effective with decent stats. I've also read good things about LyteShow liquid concentrate from other logs.
> 
> IIRC, pseudoephedrine is more useful for alleviating lethargy (whilst on DNP) than helping cardio endurance? But I could be misremembering. I'm a low/non responder to the EC Stack so I'm not bothering with it personally. My Modafinil should be here on Friday - which would give it a 3 week TD from India, not bad - so I'm hoping that I'll respond well to that and it will help stave off low energy. Fingers crossed!


I'm a little old school on the electrolyte thing. Salt is my go to for summer endurance exercise.

Hope the modafinil works for you. I haven't really been all that lethargic when I haven't already killed myself with cardio.


----------



## Trump (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> I'm a little old school on the electrolyte thing. Salt is my go to for summer endurance exercise.
> 
> Hope the modafinil works for you. I haven't really been all that lethargic when I haven't already killed myself with cardio.


If I don’t take electrolytes while on dnp it makes me feel like shit


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> I'm a little old school on the electrolyte thing. Salt is my go to for summer endurance exercise.
> 
> Hope the modafinil works for you. I haven't really been all that lethargic when I haven't already killed myself with cardio.



Cheers Flenser, I appreciate it. Sounds like this run is generally going well for you - cardio cramps aside - so I hope you're able to achieve what you set out to do!


----------



## flenser (Sep 12, 2021)

Trump said:


> If I don’t take electrolytes while on dnp it makes me feel like shit


Salt IS an electrolyte. I could probably use a potassium supplement, though.


----------



## Trump (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> Salt IS an electrolyte. I could probably use a potassium supplement, though.


I am fully aware that sodium is an electrolyte, there are not only 2


----------



## flenser (Sep 12, 2021)

...


Trump said:


> I am fully aware that sodium is an electrolyte, there are not only 2


I'll give some energy drinks a try...


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> I'll give some energy drinks a try...



That'll cover the bases, or just add some electrolyte powder or liquid concentrate to a bottle of water for a quick boost. I like that many of them are sugar-free and at a lower cost per serving than energy drinks (but that's just me being the frugal nerd that I am).

Can't wait to hear how your run shakes out when all things are said and done, Flen. How long are you planning to go for?


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> So the sides are finally kicking in - sheets in the washer, pillows in the dryer, wife kicked me out of bed, etc. I'm starting to believe I lose more fat by eating more calories, especially carbs.
> 
> Last 3 days I ate a LOT more carbs, and even had a few beers every night, and lost 4 lbs from where I was while in a deficit. I'm going to return to eating clean next week and see if the weight loss slows as I expect.


I’m have to go back and read the rest of the posts after this but what the FAUK dude did I read… couple of Beers? I hope that you kidding man. Alcohol is a huge no no on DNP. If you didn’t have any issues, you’re lucky. I wouldn’t assume that would be the regular outcome. This might be one of my biggest comments when anyone starts DNP, leave the alcohol on the table


----------



## flenser (Sep 12, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> I’m have to go back and read the rest of the posts after this but what the FAUK dude did I read… couple of Beers? I hope that you kidding man. Alcohol is a huge no no on DNP. If you didn’t have any issues, you’re lucky. I wouldn’t assume that would be the regular outcome. This might be one of my biggest comments when anyone starts DNP, leave the alcohol on the table


I read that in some early comments, not on this forum, "don't drink alcohol or you will die". But he said that about a lot of stuff.

Edit: It's not like we were doing shots or anything. Just a couple of beers, OK three beers...


----------



## flenser (Sep 12, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> That'll cover the bases, or just add some electrolyte powder or liquid concentrate to a bottle of water for a quick boost. I like that many of them are sugar-free and at a lower cost per serving than energy drinks (but that's just me being the frugal nerd that I am).
> 
> Can't wait to hear how your run shakes out when all things are said and done, Flen. How long are you planning to go for?


I'm planning on ending it the end of this week, or maybe the next week depending on work scheduling. I'm currently down 9 lbs in 11 days not counting the 7 I lost before starting the run. 

So I'm guessing total weight loss will be a little under 30 lbs at the end which should put me right at 15% BF. I got way out of control during the lockdowns, and never really put in the effort to correct things.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 12, 2021)

flenser said:


> I read that in some early comments, not on this forum, "don't drink alcohol or you will die". But he said that about a lot of stuff.
> 
> Edit: It's not like we were doing shots or anything. Just a couple of beers, OK three beers...


man all im going to say is you got lucky. i wouldnt risk something like that. alcohol on DNP can put you on your ass in a heart beat. I take that point of DNP very serious.  I havent shared this with many but one of the most important people to me was on DNP and drank several drinks, fully hydrated, no issues before. got a phone call that they were on the couch convulsing and really out of communication. it took about 2 days before they were ok. never again do i want to see anyone go thru that


----------



## Send0 (Sep 13, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> man all im going to say is you got lucky. i wouldnt risk something like that. alcohol on DNP can put you on your ass in a heart beat. I take that point of DNP very serious.  I havent shared this with many but one of the most important people to me was on DNP and drank several drinks, fully hydrated, no issues before. got a phone call that they were on the couch convulsing and really out of communication. it took about 2 days before they were ok. never again do i want to see anyone go thru that


Holy shit... I can't drink because of a gene mutation, but damn... thank you for sharing that.

These are the kinds of examples people need to see I think... I include myself in this demographic. Thank you for sharing with us!


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 13, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Holy shit... I can't drink because of a gene mutation, but damn... thank you for sharing that.
> 
> These are the kinds of examples people need to see I think... I include myself in this demographic. Thank you for sharing with us!



yeah i dont think either, its more of a personal choice than anything. never have, never will. 

I dont really talk about it b/c its something that hit me hard when it happened b/c there was literally nothing I could do to help other than talk to the person helping them and getting them what they needed. if i needed to drive the 8hrs to get there, I was ready to. thats why im very adamant about DNP and protocol. one little thing can cause a world of hurt...and as known, just bc it does or doesnt happen this time, theres no telling what will happen next time


----------



## flenser (Sep 13, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> man all im going to say is you got lucky. i wouldnt risk something like that. alcohol on DNP can put you on your ass in a heart beat. I take that point of DNP very serious.  I havent shared this with many but one of the most important people to me was on DNP and drank several drinks, fully hydrated, no issues before. got a phone call that they were on the couch convulsing and really out of communication. it took about 2 days before they were ok. never again do i want to see anyone go thru that


I will refrain from drinking from now on. I have been leaning toward doing that anyway, though not because of DNP. 

I went through a lot research and also forum threads on different boards and while the topic of drinking on DNP always elicited strong reactions against it, several people admitted to drinking regularly with no ill effects. The strongest science I can find against it is that it's a diuretic, but then caffeine is a stronger diuretic especially in the quantities I get from coffee. 

I will stick with the bro science on this one, though, and refrain. I just wanted to say I did my homework before choosing to indulge.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 13, 2021)

flenser said:


> I will refrain from drinking from now on. I have been leaning toward doing that anyway, though not because of DNP.



Really good on you, @flenser. Glad to hear it, and happy that you didn't suffer any ill effects.

We're kindred; I did so much research in advance, read so many anecdotal reports and run logs, etc. Admittedly, it gave me some analysis-paralysis, and at one point my list of "supplements to add to a DNP run" was almost two dozen items long. There's a lot of wisdom in better safe than sorry, and there's also a point at which you can go overboard with precautions. We've all got to do our own due diligence and figure out the balance that will work for us.


----------



## flenser (Sep 13, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Really good on you, @flenser. Glad to hear it, and happy that you didn't suffer any ill effects.
> 
> We're kindred; I did so much research in advance, read so many anecdotal reports and run logs, etc. Admittedly, it gave me some analysis-paralysis, and at one point my list of "supplements to add to a DNP run" was almost two dozen items long. There's a lot of wisdom in better safe than sorry, and there's also a point at which you can go overboard with precautions. We've all got to do our own due diligence and figure out the balance that will work for us.


I have a lot of respect for experience, aka bro science, especially when it comes to safety. Even though I found no hard evidence against it, experienced people are warning me away. I would have to really really want to do it to ignore that advice.


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 13, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> I do too. I had been taking it for years (three 25mg pills per night) to get a good night of sleep, but then I read about a study earlier this year that found a significant link between diphenhydramine - the active ingredient in Benadryl - and early onset dementia and Alzheimer's. Because those already run in my family, it worried me enough that I tried to find another solution.
> 
> This will sound ridiculous, but these are all the things I take in conjunction every night for sleep support:
> 
> ...


The 12 mg of melatonin would make me question how you wake up in the morning, not how you feel asleep.  That's crazy that your body rejects everything until benadryl comes in.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 14, 2021)

flenser said:


> I have a lot of respect for experience, aka bro science, especially when it comes to safety. Even though I found no hard evidence against it, experienced people are warning me away. I would have to really really want to do it to ignore that advice.


yeah man thats the thing, sometimes you will find all of this scientific stuff on things but really running it and doing things and experiencing is really the only way. you very well may have no issues with drinking on this go around but next time, you have no idea what could happen. there are a few here that can admit to have a drink or 2 and having a different experience. I for one dont drink, just dont care to in general, dont have anything against it, just not for me. But personally seeing someone go thru that is something i never want any to ever see. I guess one way to look at it is this - whats more beneficial.... having that drink and potentially having a severe reaction or not having the drink and having no chance of alcohol effects. but yes, it can dehydrate the hell out of you with alcohol while its  already trying to rid the alcohol from the body. glad youre ok man but better safe than sorry is my comment on alcohol. it still haunts me


----------



## flenser (Sep 14, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> yeah man thats the thing, sometimes you will find all of this scientific stuff on things but really running it and doing things and experiencing is really the only way. you very well may have no issues with drinking on this go around but next time, you have no idea what could happen. there are a few here that can admit to have a drink or 2 and having a different experience. I for one dont drink, just dont care to in general, dont have anything against it, just not for me. But personally seeing someone go thru that is something i never want any to ever see. I guess one way to look at it is this - whats more beneficial.... having that drink and potentially having a severe reaction or not having the drink and having no chance of alcohol effects. but yes, it can dehydrate the hell out of you with alcohol while its  already trying to rid the alcohol from the body. glad youre ok man but better safe than sorry is my comment on alcohol. it still haunts me



I was mostly drinking for the added carbs anyway. Plenty of other ways to do that if I want to go around drenched in sweat all day. I'm not likely to risk a reaction in the future. It didn't seem risky at the time or I wouldn't have done it.

I'm back to eating clean with moderate carbs, and all the sides subsided to barely noticeable. Haven't tried another bike ride, though. Supposed to ride on Wednesday. but if it's in the 90's I'll probably find an excuse to skip it.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 14, 2021)

yeah man there are a ton of other ways to get  your carbs.. not just safely but more effectively. get your crabs from solids and not beer. not really the carbs you want


----------



## flenser (Sep 15, 2021)

Starting to get, "are you OK", comments at work. I really am just fine, but apparently I'm looking "gaunt", and my breathing has gotten louder from clogged sinuses. I'm still sweating some, but I sit in front of a fan all day which keeps me dry. 

Can't decide if I should end my run on Saturday - or increase the dose! Now that I understand (sort of) the relationship between carbs and sides I want to see how dose affects sides (and weight loss) when I keep carbs low. Not sure my coworkers won't kick me out of the office as a potential COVID threat if I don't stop soon, though : )


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 15, 2021)

flenser said:


> Starting to get, "are you OK", comments at work. I really am just fine, but apparently I'm looking "gaunt", and my breathing has gotten louder from clogged sinuses. I'm still sweating some, but I sit in front of a fan all day which keeps me dry.
> 
> Can't decide if I should end my run on Saturday - or increase the dose! Now that I understand (sort of) the relationship between carbs and sides I want to see how dose affects sides (and weight loss) when I keep carbs low. Not sure my coworkers won't kick me out of the office as a potential COVID threat if I don't stop soon, though : )


You still on 200 mg?  I am still on 150, thought about 300, but soon will effectively go to 225 instead.


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 15, 2021)

I recommend increasing the days rather than the dose, but if you are fine with 150-200 mg a day, you should be able to hold on with 300 mg. I recommend increasing the days rather than the dose, but if you are fine with 150-200 mg a day, you should be able to hold on with 300 mg.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 15, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> I recommend increasing the days rather than the dose, but if you are fine with 150-200 mg a day, you should be able to hold on with 300 mg. I recommend increasing the days rather than the dose, but if you are fine with 150-200 mg a day, you should be able to hold on with 300 mg.


this


----------



## flenser (Sep 15, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> You still on 200 mg?  I am still on 150, thought about 300, but soon will effectively go to 225 instead.


Still on 200mg. Only reason I would want to increase it would be to find out how I respond. If doubling the dose magically doubles the weight loss, and doesn't also double the sides, then I'm all in. I'm guessing it's more of a diminishing return and increasing sides and risk thing, but it would be nice to find the optimal dose for me. It would be a complete surprise if the first dose is also the best dose. Maybe 100mg per day would be just as good...


----------



## Trump (Sep 15, 2021)

flenser said:


> Still on 200mg. Only reason I would want to increase it would be to find out how I respond. If doubling the dose magically doubles the weight loss, and doesn't also double the sides, then I'm all in. I'm guessing it's more of a diminishing return and increasing sides and risk thing, but it would be nice to find the optimal dose for me. It would be a complete surprise if the first dose is also the best dose. Maybe 100mg per day would be just as good...


Doesn’t work like that, if you can train at this dose and you don’t have cravings stick to this dose. Upping it will make you craze food like you wouldn’t believe and also effect your training


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 15, 2021)

Trump said:


> Doesn’t work like that, if you can train at this dose and you don’t have cravings stick to this dose. Upping it will make you craze food like you wouldn’t believe and also effect your training


It sounds immature, but I just want to increase it a bit to get that feeling of heat after I eat carbs.  Everyone's talking about it, but I have yet to relate.


----------



## Trump (Sep 15, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> It sounds immature, but I just want to increase it a bit to get that feeling of heat after I eat carbs.  Everyone's talking about it, but I have yet to relate.


Just be careful dude it can hit you like a steam train, how many days you been on?


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 15, 2021)

Trump said:


> Doesn’t work like that, if you can train at this dose and you don’t have cravings stick to this dose. Upping it will make you craze food like you wouldn’t believe and also effect your training


oh man the end of a run is horrible. i dont have a sweat tooth but when i start craving, im done. otherwise ill end up eating nothing but candy


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 15, 2021)

Trump said:


> Just be careful dude it can hit you like a steam train, how many days you been on?


Currently, 12 days at 150.  I take them at night.  Ironically I felt really tired twice and both times had something in common.  The first time, the day after, I went to the farms with my family and didn't eat or drink for quite a few hours as I was playing with my daughter.  The 2nd time was yesterday.  I fasted until after my doctor's appointment (first ate at around 3 pm).  Currently the days I feel most energetic is after a nice workout.  My 150 effective dosage is taking that pill once a night.  To get to 225, I would be taking it every 16 hours, so 3 times in 2 days.  I think I ran it long enough for the sight increase in dose.


----------



## ATLRigger (Sep 15, 2021)

flenser said:


> I will refrain from drinking from now on. I have been leaning toward doing that anyway, though not because of DNP.
> 
> I went through a lot research and also forum threads on different boards and while the topic of drinking on DNP always elicited strong reactions against it, several people admitted to drinking regularly with no ill effects. The strongest science I can find against it is that it's a diuretic, but then caffeine is a stronger diuretic especially in the quantities I get from coffee.
> 
> I will stick with the bro science on this one, though, and refrain. I just wanted to say I did my homework before choosing to indulge.


I don’t know nothing about DNP but u shouldn’t be drinking if ur using steroids.


----------



## flenser (Sep 15, 2021)

ATLRigger said:


> I don’t know nothing about DNP but u shouldn’t be drinking if ur using steroids.


I haven't heard that before, but I know quite a few ripped BBs who would disagree with you.


----------



## ATLRigger (Sep 15, 2021)

flenser said:


> I haven't heard that before, but I know quite a few ripped BBs who would disagree with you.


It’s just my personal opinion. And please share why you disagree. I don’t care what the bodybuilders you know think about drinking.


----------



## flenser (Sep 15, 2021)

ATLRigger said:


> It’s just my personal opinion. And please share why you disagree. I don’t care what the bodybuilders you know think about drinking.


I don't necessarily disagree or agree, but to make a case others would take seriously you need more than your personal opinion. 

Many people are willing to make small sacrifices to their physical health in favor of mental health. And many others believe some quantity of alcohol consumed regularly is actually good for them. I don't see any obvious conflicts in either position.


----------



## ATLRigger (Sep 15, 2021)

flenser said:


> I don't necessarily disagree or agree, but to make a case others would take seriously you need more than your personal opinion.
> 
> Many people are willing to make small sacrifices to their physical health in favor of mental health. And many others believe some quantity of alcohol consumed regularly is actually good for them. I don't see any obvious conflicts in either position.


Alcohol might be good for some to relieve stress, sure.  I can’t imagine that any counselor or psychiatrist would recommend drinking as a solution to life’s problems however. 
Self medicating would be the term for what ur talking about.  Then again, I prescribe myself copious amounts of anabolics, so what do i know…


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 16, 2021)

flenser said:


> If doubling the dose magically doubles the weight loss, and doesn't also double the sides, then I'm all in.



On paper, in theory, this is true. But in practice the sides will increase cravings, fatigue and reduce your sleep, which impairs recovery and cortisol management.

As someone who has run DNP for years with 300-450mg runs, more rarely never better.


----------



## dragon1952 (Sep 16, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> this


The first or the second sentence?


----------



## flenser (Sep 16, 2021)

Decided to stick it out for at least another week, but reducing the dose to 100mg per day. What @Trump was saying about increased cravings was already happening just holding at 200mg. So maybe I'm saturated and can get by on a lower dose? 

Going back to eating clean did reduce the sweats during the day, but not while I'm sleeping. I already ruined all my pillows, so I might as well keep the experiment going a little longer...


----------



## Send0 (Sep 16, 2021)

flenser said:


> Decided to stick it out for at least another week, but reducing the dose to 100mg per day. What @Trump was saying about increased cravings was already happening just holding at 200mg. So maybe I'm saturated and can get by on a lower dose?
> 
> Going back to eating clean did reduce the sweats during the day, but not while I'm sleeping. I already ruined all my pillows, so I might as well keep the experiment going a little longer...


If you can't get a bed cooler, then my next recommendation would be to leverage a bath robe while you sleep... It will save your sheets and pillows 😜


----------



## flenser (Sep 16, 2021)

Send0 said:


> If you can't get a bed cooler, then my next recommendation would be to leverage a bath robe while you sleep... It will save your sheets and pillows 😜


I would need multiple robes every night! I just ordered waterproof pillow and mattress protectors - and new pillows. It made me feel bad they both used the image of a sleeping child to promote the waterproof aspect! But then considering my age and prostate, that might not be far from the truth : )


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 17, 2021)

For some mysterious reason, heat, sweat, and shortness of breath increase at bedtime. For some mysterious reason, heat, sweat, and shortness of breath increase at bedtime.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 17, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> For some mysterious reason, heat, sweat, and shortness of breath increase at bedtime.



The youngins call it "knockin' da boots". 10/10 would recommend!  🔥


----------



## MrRippedZilla (Sep 17, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> For some mysterious reason, heat, sweat, and shortness of breath increase at bedtime. For some mysterious reason, heat, sweat, and shortness of breath increase at bedtime.


That's the time when you're body naturally cools off and gets ready for zzz's. Well, it's obviously going to have a hard time doing that with DNP around. Cue the discomfort. When it comes to heat control: Natural bodily functions vs DNP = DNP wins. Always.


----------



## flenser (Sep 17, 2021)

MrRippedZilla said:


> That's the time when you're body naturally cools off and gets ready for zzz's. Well, it's obviously going to have a hard time doing that with DNP around. Cue the discomfort. When it comes to heat control: Natural bodily functions vs DNP = DNP wins. Always.


I dunno about discomfort. There is something strangely soothing about stewing in your own sweat. It's only when I get up to pee and have to come back to a slimy wet bed that I'm uncomfortable. 

Hmm, that sleeping toddler on the waterproof mattress cover package is making even more sense now. Why get up to pee if I'm already wet?


----------



## flenser (Sep 20, 2021)

I gave up on the 100mg per day thing. Didn't seem to reduce my appetite at all, so as far as I can tell all I was doing was extending the run needlessly - and eating everything in sight. So I stopped yesterday, and will wait until next week to assess the total damage. It looks so far like I lost 14 lbs in 15 days while eating a surplus the last 6 days. After one day my appetite is already back to normal, maybe even a little depressed. Next run I'm keeping a calorie deficit the entire time. The first day I can't control my eating will be the last day of the run.


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 20, 2021)

With 100 mg a day your appetite became uncontrollable? With 100 mg a day your appetite became uncontrollable?


----------



## flenser (Sep 20, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> With 100 mg a day your appetite became uncontrollable? With 100 mg a day your appetite became uncontrollable?


It was uncontrollable on 200mg after 10 days or so, well not uncontrollable, just not under control. I dropped to 100mg hoping that would change things, but it didn't.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> It was uncontrollable on 200mg after 10 days or so, well not uncontrollable, just not under control. I dropped to 100mg hoping that would change things, but it didn't.


Hey, 15lbs in 14 days isn't bad. Pretty sweet actually. More water weight will fall off once you stop, so you will likely end up losing quite a bit more in the coming week.


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> It was uncontrollable on 200mg after 10 days or so, well not uncontrollable, just not under control. I dropped to 100mg hoping that would change things, but it didn't.



Oh, sure, forget it, once you reach the upper limit you should go out and rest for a few days, reducing the dose is not enough. 

That leads me to believe that the half-life of DNP is more than 36 hours.


----------



## Trump (Sep 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> I gave up on the 100mg per day thing. Didn't seem to reduce my appetite at all, so as far as I can tell all I was doing was extending the run needlessly - and eating everything in sight. So I stopped yesterday, and will wait until next week to assess the total damage. It looks so far like I lost 14 lbs in 15 days while eating a surplus the last 6 days. After one day my appetite is already back to normal, maybe even a little depressed. Next run I'm keeping a calorie deficit the entire time. The first day I can't control my eating will be the last day of the run.


Have a week off then see what long term 100mg per day does. I think with a good diet this is possibly a good way for continuous fat loss with minimul sides. Never tried it myself but considering it next time in Nigeria 12th oct


----------



## flenser (Sep 20, 2021)

Trump said:


> Have a week off then see what long term 100mg per day does. I think with a good diet this is possibly a good way for continuous fat loss with minimul sides. Never tried it myself but considering it next time in Nigeria 12th oct


My wife won't let me anywhere near her while I'm on the stuff. She says I smell sweaty. The long term plan is out for me : )


----------



## Trump (Sep 20, 2021)

flenser said:


> My wife won't let me anywhere near her while I'm on the stuff. She says I smell sweaty. The long term plan is out for me : )


I doubt you will sweat that much om 100mg


----------



## flenser (Sep 20, 2021)

Trump said:


> I doubt you will sweat that much om 100mg


I might try it this spring after some winter bulking.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 20, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Hey, 15lbs in 14 days isn't bad. Pretty sweet actually. More water weight will fall off once you stop, so you will likely end up losing quite a bit more in the coming week.



I'm on the 5th day or so of 200mg ED, and I've been curious about something that I don't think I've seen mentioned in low dose / longer term runs...

Is the water retention something that people generally only experience on shorter runs with a higher mg/kg dose?

Because otherwise, someone on a low/slow run would just become more and more bloated by water retention, and you would think at some point that would have to abate on its own...

I may go back and re-read the thread by GearGoddess, because I think she and the gal she ran it with both tapered off somewhere around the 8 - 10 week mark. Just curious if anyone else has experience with water retention over a longer period of time.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 20, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> I'm on the 5th day or so of 200mg ED, and I've been curious about something that I don't think I've seen mentioned in low dose / longer term runs...
> 
> Is the water retention something that people generally only experience on shorter runs with a higher mg/kg dose?
> 
> ...


My assumption is that eventually your body will hit homeostasis when it comes to water bloat.

@metsfan4life and @Trump  would be the better people to ask the question. I'm very new to DNP, and I don't want to give you an answer thats wrong.


----------



## Trump (Sep 20, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> I'm on the 5th day or so of 200mg ED, and I've been curious about something that I don't think I've seen mentioned in low dose / longer term runs...
> 
> Is the water retention something that people generally only experience on shorter runs with a higher mg/kg dose?
> 
> ...


DNP is very strange although it holds water subconsciously it dehydrates you inside. You can mitigate the bloat slightly with a ton of water but you must add electrolytes because when your pissing so much your getting rid of all the electrolytes in your body. 
I have a half gallon water jug and drink around 4 or 5 through the day and 2 flavoured electrolytes tablets to it. 
I have never noticed the bloat get progressively worse the longer your on more it just randomly fluctuates from one day to the next


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 20, 2021)

Trump said:


> DNP is very strange although it holds water subconsciously it dehydrates you inside. You can mitigate the bloat slightly with a ton of water but you must add electrolytes because when your pissing so much your getting rid of all the electrolytes in your body.
> I have a half gallon water jug and drink around 4 or 5 through the day and 2 flavoured electrolytes tablets to it.
> I have never noticed the bloat get progressively worse the longer your on more it just randomly fluctuates from one day to the next



Thank you so much for your advice - and I appreciate you tagging @Trump for me, @Send0.

I've been drinking ~2 gallons of water daily but only 1 serving of electrolyte powder in the morning, so I should probably bump that up to 2x/day.

I'm thinking that a gal's time o' the month may increase or prolong the water retention as well. (Thanks, lady hormones!)

Curiously, I've seen it noted in a number of logs/posts that DNP may have a thirst-blunting effect, but it's the exact opposite for me - I'm thirsty *constantly*. I'm sure that sleeping (and spending much of the day) with a fan blasting on me is aiding in this, because I wake up with intense dry mouth and a mild headache sometimes too.

I'll increase my water and electrolyte intake for sure. Thanks again for the guidance, Trump!


----------



## Trump (Sep 20, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Thank you so much for your advice - and I appreciate you tagging @Trump for me, @Send0.
> 
> I've been drinking ~2 gallons of water daily but only 1 serving of electrolyte powder in the morning, so I should probably bump that up to 2x/day.
> 
> ...


Bump it to 3 a day it’s cheap enough


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 20, 2021)

Trump said:


> Bump it to 3 a day it’s cheap enough



Which brand do you like? I've been using JUNP from Amazon because it had a good cost per serving, but it may not be as robust in electrolytes as others.


----------



## Trump (Sep 20, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Which brand do you like? I've been using JUNP from Amazon because it had a good cost per serving, but it may not be as robust in electrolytes as others.


I used these usually 



			https://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Zero-Hydration-Tablets-Citrus/dp/B00JZ463AS/ref=sxts_rp_s1_0?crid=3A1TL0W6L1RTK&cv_ct_cx=electrolytes+tablets&dchild=1&keywords=electrolytes+tablets&pd_rd_i=B00JZ463AS&pd_rd_r=05159790-972d-487d-8858-1555d47e2ba1&pd_rd_w=BY4Pn&pd_rd_wg=onzYN&pf_rd_p=a62466a3-3195-48c8-9fce-6368dbe157a8&pf_rd_r=P95JJKHNQE11TPHR3K8R&psc=1&qid=1632170811&sprefix=electro&sr=1-1-cf7d4c5a-eedf-43f1-ac2b-937782a66847


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 20, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Thank you so much for your advice - and I appreciate you tagging @Trump for me, @Send0.
> 
> I've been drinking ~2 gallons of water daily but only 1 serving of electrolyte powder in the morning, so I should probably bump that up to 2x/day.
> 
> ...


@DesertRose , tread carefully, which ironically is the advice you gave me about this when I first joined.  I cruised at 150.  For the past 3 days I went to 225.  Weather was comfortable, but I have a great deal of under chest sweat without exercise.  I am still comfortable, but moist and smelly.  Instead of taking a 150 daily, I take a 150 every 16 hours (effectively 225 daily).  If you have 100s I would space out the time to effectively go to 250.  I am about 200 lbs and my slight increase turned into quite a drastic difference.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 21, 2021)

@DesertRose the water bloat is hit and miss. you may notice it more upfront or you may find it in the middle but after a while, it just stays the same. you shouldnt continue to become more and more bloated bc your body is basically holding onto every ounce of water you give it since your insides are like 3deg higher on average. so its going to retain that water to cool it down. i find myself more thirsty while on DNP, whether that be 200mg/day or 600mg/day.

@weightlossburn   I feel you on the smelly sweat. when im on dnp, once i start sweating in the gym, its a very distinct smell for me. it makes me so mad bc i swear it smells like i straight up pissed my pants. take that drenched shirt off and i can smell it. soon as i come off DNP, its gone as soon as the DNP has been rid thru the system


----------



## Send0 (Sep 21, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> I feel you on the smelly sweat. when im on dnp, once i start sweating in the gym, its a very distinct smell for me. it makes me so mad bc i swear it smells like i straight up pissed my pants. take that drenched shirt off and i can smell it. soon as i come off DNP, its gone as soon as the DNP has been rid thru the system


Thats interesting. I did not stink persay, but I had a distinct spiciness to my odor. It's hard to describe, but it's like my body was secreting some kind of spice I would keep in my pantry.

It was weird for sure.


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 21, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Thats interesting. I did not stink persay, but I had a distinct spiciness to my odor. It's hard to describe, but it's like my body was secreting some kind of spice I would keep in my pantry.



Eau de Moderator... I hear it's excellent on chicken! 🍗


----------



## DesertRose (Sep 21, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> @DesertRose , tread carefully, which ironically is the advice you gave me about this when I first joined.  I cruised at 150.  For the past 3 days I went to 225.  Weather was comfortable, but I have a great deal of under chest sweat without exercise.  I am still comfortable, but moist and smelly.



Yeahhhhh, the under-chest sweat is not a cute look. Petition to make "boobs wrapped in paper towels" a new fetish category, because I would be NAILING IT.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 21, 2021)

DesertRose said:


> Yeahhhhh, the under-chest sweat is not a cute look. Petition to make "boobs wrapped in paper towels" a new fetish category, because I would be NAILING IT.


Now all I can think of is under bewbage 🤤


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 21, 2021)

Trump said:


> DNP is very strange although it holds water subconsciously it dehydrates you inside. You can mitigate the bloat slightly with a ton of water but you must add electrolytes because when your pissing so much your getting rid of all the electrolytes in your body.
> I have a half gallon water jug and drink around 4 or 5 through the day and 2 flavoured electrolytes tablets to it.
> I have never noticed the bloat get progressively worse the longer your on more it just randomly fluctuates from one day to the next


Agreed with @Trump .  Overall the weight is a little bit down.  But when I get on the scale, I really don't know what to expect.  Overall bathroom use is up, but the amount of times and amounts I expel at the restroom will significantly vary day to day.


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 21, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Thats interesting. I did not stink persay, but I had a distinct spiciness to my odor. It's hard to describe, but it's like my body was secreting some kind of spice I would keep in my pantry.
> 
> It was weird for sure.


I straight up stink by the afternoon.  It reminded me of my friend that went through puberty earlier than most boys in elementary school.  The stink brought back this memory from decades ago.  Around 5, I reloaded heavy on deodorant.  I also took my powder specifically meant for masculine chaffing and rubbed it all over my chest and stomach.


----------



## flenser (Sep 21, 2021)

I have very little sense of smell anymore, so I have to go by what my wife tells me. But  while I on the stuff I turned s couple of towels brown drying off after showers.


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 21, 2021)

metsfan4life said:


> @DesertRose the water bloat is hit and miss. you may notice it more upfront or you may find it in the middle but after a while, it just stays the same. you shouldnt continue to become more and more bloated bc your body is basically holding onto every ounce of water you give it since your insides are like 3deg higher on average. so its going to retain that water to cool it down. i find myself more thirsty while on DNP, whether that be 200mg/day or 600mg/day.
> 
> @weightlossburn   I feel you on the smelly sweat. when im on dnp, once i start sweating in the gym, its a very distinct smell for me. it makes me so mad bc i swear it smells like i straight up pissed my pants. take that drenched shirt off and i can smell it. soon as i come off DNP, its gone as soon as the DNP has been rid thru the system


@metsfan4life , I think you nailed down the smell.  I took my shirt off earlier to take a shower.  Front of it smelled slightly musty mixed with the chafing powder I mentioned previously.  The back of it smelled like watered down urine.  It wasn't very strong, but could definitely smell it a little.


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 21, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> @metsfan4life , I think you nailed down the smell.  I took my shirt off earlier to take a shower.  Front of it smelled slightly musty mixed with the chafing powder I mentioned previously.  The back of it smelled like watered down urine.  It wasn't very strong, but could definitely smell it a little.


yeah it sucks. its like do i work out or smell. fauk it, work out. i tried washing everything in wife's athletic wear washing stuff in case it was the shirt... nope


----------



## flenser (Sep 21, 2021)

weightlossburn said:


> @metsfan4life , I think you nailed down the smell.  I took my shirt off earlier to take a shower.  Front of it smelled slightly musty mixed with the chafing powder I mentioned previously.  The back of it smelled like watered down urine.  It wasn't very strong, but could definitely smell it a little.


Throw it in the hamper for a couple of days, and see if it darkens - forever. That's what was happening to me anyway.


----------



## flenser (Sep 22, 2021)

flenser said:


> Throw it in the hamper for a couple of days, and see if it darkens - forever. That's what was happening to me anyway.


No one else? Really? I guess my funk is special.


----------



## weightlossburn (Sep 25, 2021)

flenser said:


> No one else? Really? I guess my funk is special.


Hahaha, not even poisonous yellow pesticide is causing my clothes to darken or my towels to turn brown.  But who knows maybe after my next dosage increase I too will get that unpleasant surprise.

For now, I am at that stage where I wake up and my bed sheets are drenched.


----------



## flenser (Sep 26, 2021)

I'm curious if anyone has tried preloading before a run. I'm planning to start a new run next Saturday (Friday is my wife's 60th birthday). But since my first run took almost 10 days before I felt any sides, I'm thinking of preloading at 100mg per day starting Monday, just to get it into my system. I have done this with different hormones, but I don't know if it makes sense with DNP.


----------



## HighHeater (Sep 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> I'm curious if anyone has tried preloading before a run. I'm planning to start a new run next Saturday (Friday is my wife's 60th birthday). But since my first run took almost 10 days before I felt any sides, I'm thinking of preloading at 100mg per day starting Monday, just to get it into my system. I have done this with different hormones, but I don't know if it makes sense with DNP.


Sides doesn’t always mean anything. How did your full completed run turnout? Front loading DNp not too sure will be the same as other things. If you’re set on a particular end time, just count backwards. If you ran 200mg for your and had good results, judge your next run on that


----------



## flenser (Sep 26, 2021)

HighHeater said:


> Sides doesn’t always mean anything. How did your full completed run turnout? Front loading DNp not too sure will be the same as other things. If you’re set on a particular end time, just count backwards. If you ran 200mg for your and had good results, judge your next run on that


The first run turned out excellent, though I ran out of self control and had to cut it short to prevent a world wide food shortage. I still lost close to a pound a day. I have a pretty small window this time, so I was looking for ways to pad it. Front loading seemed like a reasonable approach, but maybe not.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> The first run turned out excellent, though I ran out of self control and had to cut it short to prevent a world wide food shortage. I still lost close to a pound a day. I have a pretty small window this time, so I was looking for ways to pad it. Front loading seemed like a reasonable approach, but maybe not.


Cravings were that bad for you at 200mg? At what day would you say they became unbearable for you? 

Just looking to compare notes against my own experience.


----------



## HighHeater (Sep 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> The first run turned out excellent, though I ran out of self control and had to cut it short to prevent a world wide food shortage. I still lost close to a pound a day. I have a pretty small window this time, so I was looking for ways to pad it. Front loading seemed like a reasonable approach, but maybe not.


Yeah cravings are usually a sign towards the ends, everyone tad different but at least you know what when you have those cravings, you have to really watch it. More you eat sometimes the more you’re gonna feel it. 

If you did well in 200mg that may be your best approach. You can try 400mg, do 200 for 3 days and then try 4 and see how you are. If it’s too bad, drop down to 200 and you’ll know 200 is your go to. Front loading would only put more in your system and begin working in the way


----------



## Trump (Sep 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> I'm curious if anyone has tried preloading before a run. I'm planning to start a new run next Saturday (Friday is my wife's 60th birthday). But since my first run took almost 10 days before I felt any sides, I'm thinking of preloading at 100mg per day starting Monday, just to get it into my system. I have done this with different hormones, but I don't know if it makes sense with DNP.


Personally if I was going to front load and my dose was 200mg I would take 200mg 12 hours apart on day 1 then go back to 200mg per day. This will get you to higher saturation dose quicker


----------



## flenser (Sep 26, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Cravings were that bad for you at 200mg? At what day would you say they became unbearable for you?
> 
> Just looking to compare notes against my own experience.


Probably around day 10. I wouldn't say they were unbearable so much as I was unready for them. I think I could have planned things a little better, made sure there wasn't a giant can of cashews in the pantry, for example.


----------



## flenser (Sep 26, 2021)

Trump said:


> Personally if I was going to front load and my dose was 200mg I would take 200mg 12 hours apart on day 1 then go back to 200mg per day. This will get you to higher saturation dose quicker


That sounds like it might work, a larger initial dose instead of a longer loading time. It's worth a try.


----------



## Trump (Sep 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> That sounds like it might work, a larger initial dose instead of a longer loading time. It's worth a try.


It will work


----------



## Send0 (Sep 26, 2021)

flenser said:


> Probably around day 10. I wouldn't say they were unbearable so much as I was unready for them. I think I could have planned things a little better, made sure there wasn't a giant can of cashews in the pantry, for example.


Ah, so our cravings hit around the same day then. I know it's coincidental, but kind of interesting. Thanks for the response!


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 26, 2021)

Cravings usually hit me around the 16 day mark and that’s when I start having to watch for my timing to bow out and head towards end of cycle. I don’t have a sweet tooth except at the very end of DNp so I gotta watch it


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 26, 2021)

I did front loads with 450mg the first day, then, running a 300mg cycle ... the problem is that on day 4-6 it hits you like a freight train, lol


----------



## metsfan4life (Sep 27, 2021)

Beti ona said:


> I did front loads with 450mg the first day, then, running a 300mg cycle ... the problem is that on day 4-6 it hits you like a freight train, lol


Yep that’s the issue with front loading on this. You get more in your system but it hits hard. Not like test front loading where you get the amount in your system up front and then it tapers to normal as the sides from test aren’t like sides of DNp. Just ends up causing those days of sides to hit harder up front


----------



## Beti ona (Sep 27, 2021)

I recommend front loading if you know your body and are an expert in DNP, just in case for some reason you want to do a short cycle of less than a week.


----------

