# GH and insulin



## PAfunk (Jun 11, 2021)

I’d consider myself a mildly experienced user on 200mg tren 600 test 200mast. Was wondering instead of adding more gear if adding GH and insulin in would be beneficial I’m in my 20s so I’d imagine I don’t have a gh deficiency. Would love to here your guys opinions on adding more gear or adding in gh or insulin or both.


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## Jin (Jun 11, 2021)

This is a great topic for discussion. 

How are your lipids, bloodwork and BP on current protocol?


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## PAfunk (Jun 11, 2021)

Haven’t taken any bloods yet feel amazing and I have perfect blood pressure. No side effects other then night sweats


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## CJ (Jun 12, 2021)

I would think it COULD be, but I freely admit I have no expertise or experience with it.

But I'd think that coming at growing from multiple different pathways could be better than simply bombing the AAS route.

Again though, I have no experience or knowledge on the matter.


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## PAfunk (Jun 12, 2021)

I had same idea instead of bombing the androgen receptor to open up more pathways. Also using injectable L carnitine t3 -t4 and clen if that makes any difference t3 25 mcg t4 100mcg.


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## diesel707 (Jun 12, 2021)

You could use hgh I would wait on the insulin. Take things one step at a time grow with the least amount of things is always my theory. Small amount to start 3iu a day is more then enough to start to see some more growth, you wouldn't need to worry about BG yet because the dose is small enough so no need for insulin. If you wanted a little more of a boost metformin and hgh have been shown to increase igf levels in the body as well.


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## Chillinlow (Jun 12, 2021)

PAfunk said:


> I’d consider myself a mildly experienced user on 200mg tren 600 test 200mast. Was wondering instead of adding more gear if adding GH and insulin in would be beneficial I’m in my 20s so I’d imagine I don’t have a gh deficiency. Would love to here your guys opinions on adding more gear or adding in gh or insulin or both.



What are your goals? Your young idk for the cost benefit if it’s worth it to run it IMO at that age


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## NbleSavage (Jun 13, 2021)

OP adding slin to any protocol isn't a choice to be taken lightly. Fook that one up and ye can wake up in the ER.

Dunno yer specific history, but fer most there's still room to grow using diet, training and AAS (for example - yer running Tren & Mast which are great fer cutting and recomp but thinking of adding slin which most all use fer a bulker).

Think of each of these options as a tool that its best suited for, then consider yer goals and use them to determine which tools to select. Ye bulking? Cutting? Recomp?


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## diesel707 (Jun 14, 2021)

NbleSavage said:


> OP adding slin to any protocol isn't a choice to be taken lightly. Fook that one up and ye can wake up in the ER.
> 
> Dunno yer specific history, but fer most there's still room to grow using diet, training and AAS (for example - yer running Tren & Mast which are great fer cutting and recomp but thinking of adding slin which most all use fer a bulker).
> 
> Think of each of these options as a tool that its best suited for, then consider yer goals and use them to determine which tools to select. Ye bulking? Cutting? Recomp?



Slin is more advanced yes but I think gets quiet the bad rap honestly. To end up in the ER for example you have to be pretty damn dense to not eat or get sugar if you are going hypo I must say. You can definitely feel when and how quickly you need to eat....and take it from someone who made a MASSIVE MISTAKE being a stupid college kid years ago I mistakenly took 40iu thinking it was 4iu and when into law class. 2 burritos and 4 gatorades later I was good to go and learned a lesson very quick. 

Also slin isn't as much a bulk or cutting drug as much as it is a nutrient shuttle. That is it's primary purpose and secondary would be to increase your igf levels with increases fat loss and muscle growth.


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## PAfunk (Jun 15, 2021)

The effect id wanna get from slin is throwing it in on week body part days to really drive nutrient into the muscle. I’m big on pre-workout drugs I feel like something that acutely improves performance but doesn’t have you cranked all day is huge benefit right now I bounce between tne, anadrol and dbol spaced around week body part days and thought slin would be a nice add on in the tool box


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## metsfan4life (Jun 15, 2021)

diesel707 said:


> Slin is more advanced yes but I think gets quiet the bad rap honestly. To end up in the ER for example you have to be pretty damn dense to not eat or get sugar if you are going hypo I must say. You can definitely feel when and how quickly you need to eat....and take it from someone who made a MASSIVE MISTAKE being a stupid college kid years ago I mistakenly took 40iu thinking it was 4iu and when into law class. 2 burritos and 4 gatorades later I was good to go and learned a lesson very quick.
> 
> Also slin isn't as much a bulk or cutting drug as much as it is a nutrient shuttle. That is it's primary purpose and secondary would be to increase your igf levels with increases fat loss and muscle growth.



it’s not so much of being dense and not eating or paying attention. That shit can come out of no where. Being a type 1 diabetic, I can’t really use the slin in the same meaning as I basically need it and use to live. I’ve seen the down sides like no other with low sugar, and that’s with paying close attention to what I eat and with everything else. Slin can just act up on you in a heartbeat no matter what. 

im glad tho you were aware of what to look for when the sugar levels hit. That’s always the biggest concern whenever I see anyone taking it


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## MuscleMedicineMD (Jun 15, 2021)

well lets get more information in that tool box, hopefully before anymore tools. 

90% of BBers take the AAS pathway to near max, stall then look to these other pathways. You can certainly use as many growth promoting, mTOR/PS pathways as you are knowledgeable about, concurrently with huge success. At 20, I simply ran, 200T/400Eq and would be doing IGF-1 bicep injections and Slin post workout. My rich buddy also added on 6iu/day HGH. That being said, you have a lot more AAS related gains to be had at your stage.
1. If you can afford GH and want to do a simple protocol, with time in terms of overall appearance and side effects, you will be happy, but aside from initial effects of a more 3D look, the actual muscle gains are very slow. I cannot speak on the fat loss results personally.
2. Certainly there are a ton of ways to bring up a lagging body part, before reaching for Slin. though it can be used as you stated, but I would expect to see a more advanced guy/ competitive BBer, using this kind of technique. Focus on training, prioritization of that muscle group at the start of your workouts, and your first day back after a rest day. Hit it extra for higher reps additionally before you start training your best body part etc. These will lead to lasting results much more than Insulin IMO.
IGF1 is often used around workouts for weaker muscle groups too, much more so IMO V. Slin.
I wouldnt touch anything that has me cranked ALL day, umm.. your nervous system is a huge part of strength and performance, youre just spinning your wheels. LOW to NO stims, if you have a choice/are well rested etc. 


Best of luck,
MuscleMedicineMD


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## Mr._Goodington (Jun 15, 2021)

Man, as an old GH/Slin user I can tell you that shit can make or break a physique...especially the slin.  Everything needs to be so dialed in bro to the point where when I was doing it I had the Dorian Yates live like a bodybuilding monk mentality.  It's really no joke at that point.  I don't think age is necessarily the issue depending on your intent.  From my experience of taking 6-8IU of GH w/slin (including lantus during one cycle), the gains are nothing less than extraordinary but the cost to my health was another story.  A lot of ancillaries needed and diet had to be beyond on point.  Also the anabolics were pushed (from my perspective) to maximize the benefit. At that time in my life my goal was to be a top level competitor and that is the type of discipline I had towards all aspects of my training.  Unless that is the goal I honestly wouldn't recommend it for anyone.  If the goal is a transformation, like anything it's kinda like physics.  What goes up must come down, meaning eventually you won't be taking GH and Slin; and when you stop your body will revert back to its normal if you know what I mean?   I like to think I still train my ass off but I can't do what I did when on that shit and my body isn't in that crazy anabolic state.  So I'm about 40lbs lighter with higher bf than I was when I did that shit.  

hope this helps, god speed brotha


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## MuscleMedicineMD (Jun 19, 2021)

Mr._Goodington said:


> Man, as an old GH/Slin user I can tell you that shit can make or break a physique...especially the slin..  From my experience of taking 6-8IU of GH w/slin (including lantus during one cycle), the gains are nothing less than extraordinary but the cost to my health was another story.



Welcome Mr. Goodington, considering your experience as you stated (I would PM bc I dont want to divert too much) could you explain how you broke shots up/dosages/times of day/with training? what was your peri-workout nutrition (cyclin dextrin intra? grams of carbs/EAA..)

I felt, at least at my stage of development, Lantus lead me to gain more BF than expected, of course diet is to blame largely. I feel slin timing is most important factor. How people get away with 10iu preworkout is questionable bc even with sufficient carbs (which is an educated guess) you still FEEL different/off IMO.

well within thread topic parameters
MuscleMedicineMD


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## Charger69 (Jun 19, 2021)

MuscleMedicineMD said:


> Welcome Mr. Goodington, considering your experience as you stated (I would PM bc I dont want to divert too much) could you explain how you broke shots up/dosages/times of day/with training? what was your peri-workout nutrition (cyclin dextrin intra? grams of carbs/EAA..)
> 
> I felt, at least at my stage of development, Lantus lead me to gain more BF than expected, of course diet is to blame largely. I feel slin timing is most important factor. How people get away with 10iu preworkout is questionable bc even with sufficient carbs (which is an educated guess) you still FEEL different/off IMO.
> 
> ...



When bulking, I do 15 pre and 15 post of slin.  
I actually hate taking slin because I need to be so precise with timing.


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## MuscleMedicineMD (Jun 20, 2021)

when you are doing pre-,  are you chugging 150g of branched carbs with EAAs, some glucose during the workout? no bloating/stomach issues? Iet me know your experiences/lessons as well Charger69 if you dont mind..

**yes timing is the challenge (I have also taken my slin to the gym, I assume if you take it pre-- you would do the same..)

My Quick thought: having high insulin during a workout is certainly not a normal physiological state, I would think this is also decreasing CORTISOL release from your adrenal (zone F), seems like a good thing right? maybe not, cortisol for short periods of stress serves many functions beyond what we think of as obvious, Its part of the positive, oddly refreshing feeling from a good workout (im usually way beyond that and near death but just thinking out loud here

Best,
M3


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## Charger69 (Jun 20, 2021)

MuscleMedicineMD said:


> when you are doing pre-,  are you chugging 150g of branched carbs with EAAs, some glucose during the workout? no bloating/stomach issues? Iet me know your experiences/lessons as well Charger69 if you dont mind..
> 
> **yes timing is the challenge (I have also taken my slin to the gym, I assume if you take it pre-- you would do the same..)
> 
> ...



Yes. bCAAS and glucose during the workout. When I take 15 it is tricky because this requires everything to be pretty precise. 
No bloating, but i have had issues of beginning to go hypo if not precise. It sucks doing legs and then going hypo. I always have my tablets in my bag so it is only a minor set back and soon I’m back.
I use Novelin R most if the time and that has two peaks.  It sucks when post and pre peak at the same time .  
I actually dislike taking insulin but the benefits outweigh the negatives.


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## MuscleMedicineMD (Jun 22, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> .
> I use Novelin R most if the time and that has two peaks.  It sucks when post and pre peak at the same time .
> I actually dislike taking insulin but the benefits outweigh the negatives.



You took the thought right out of my mind; that damned double peak, 0.5 & 2hr, could easily given avg lifting time, stack on top of one another... If i started doing pre- with an intra drink (much larger Gram amounts then now!) I will just start off low, like 5-8iu.
German PRO, ROMAN FRITZ, was really taking this up as the cause of a near 25lb gain in 9mo! and he really comes off as a hard gainer in the context of ProBBers...

food for thought, will give it a try,
Best,
M3


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## metsfan4life (Jun 23, 2021)

Man I have no idea how y’all have that many carbs before working out. If I eat more than an apple or 2 1hr before, I feel shit. I always enjoy reading yalls input tho bc it’s completely different for me - I take my insulin when I eat bc I got to. I can take as little as 2iu and I’ve taken 25iu before - literally felt no different in the gym as far as that pulse etx. Ps no blood sugar drop sometimes even at 10iu but sometimes at 2iu it tanks. Don’t you love how the body works lolz


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