# The Healing benefits of Thymosin Beta-4 (TB-500 aka Tb4)



## Times Roman

Mates,

I have recently completed a six week course of TB500, and am happy to report that my shoulder pain and my tendonitis are in full remission thanks to this wonderful peptide.  It is available on the pep market.  You can PM me if you want to know where i get mine.  Typical dose is 15mg over six weeks, with weekly SubQ injections, as follows:

week/dose
1 - 5mg
2 thru 6 - 2.5mg

Follow these links for some interesting reading:

http://www.columbiasurgery.org/news/research/2006_wound_healing.html

http://markets.financialcontent.com...44/Breakthrough_Peptide_Provides_Winning_Edge

I think this thread would be a great vehicle to discuss the various aspects of TB500, how to take,  injury repair, and maybe just to bounce ideas off one another.

What say the brother?


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## gymrat827

you ll see im the peptide guy around these parts.  Ive never tried it, but i have hernia, a really messed up lower back and shoulders that snap, crackle, pop so i may be in order to give this a go.


most of my stuff needs to be taken care of by going under the knife but i bet this would at least help.


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## Times Roman

gymrat827 said:


> *you ll see im the peptide guy around these parts*.  Ive never tried it, but i have hernia, a really messed up lower back and shoulders that snap, crackle, pop so i may be in order to give this a go.
> 
> 
> most of my stuff needs to be taken care of by going under the knife but i bet this would at least help.



it's definately NOT a miracle cure.  I would highly recommend it Post surgery, like right after going under the knife, as soon as you get home.  You may have to increase the dose/duration, maybe not.

I'm a big fan of peps too.  Looks like we're in good company!


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## SAD

I used to be all about peptides and still like the idea of them, but since dedicating myself purely to powerlifting, I haven't been able to justify needing peptides for anything.  This seems like a promising peptide for those nagging stresses that can be rested after a meet, so I'm definitely intrigued.

Anything else promising for a pure strength athlete?  I couldn't care less about gaining muscle size, but if there is a peptide out there that increases the strength of muscular contractions or something else along those lines, I'll be a guinea pig.


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## gymrat827

SAD said:


> Anything else promising for a pure strength athlete?  I couldn't care less about gaining muscle size, but if there is a peptide out there that increases the strength of muscular contractions or something else along those lines, I'll be a guinea pig.



igf lr3 / PEG mgf combo will prolly be best, it wont give strength gains like a aas type compound but you will be adding new cells at a pretty high rate.  growth occurs much faster.


the peg mgf keeps it active for 20hrs or so.  It creates more stem sites.  Than the LR3 grows them from stem sites to new cells.  this doesnt happen overnight, but those who give the stack a good 8-10wk run will see what im talking about.


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## Mind2muscle

gymrat827 said:


> you ll see im the peptide guy around these parts.  Ive never tried it, but i have hernia, a really messed up lower back and shoulders that snap, crackle, pop so i may be in order to give this a go.
> 
> 
> most of my stuff needs to be taken care of by going under the knife but i bet this would at least help.


\

I'm not sure what the details are of your back injury GymRat but check out the Mckenzie Exercises.  It is a science based set of exercises specifically for back pain.  There is also a set for cervical/neck pain.  I had to utilize the neck exercises and within a matter of a couple of weeks my neck felt 100%.  Like I said though I dont know your specifics but check em out anyways.


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## gymrat827

i played hockey from 6-18 yrs old.  im not even sure whats wrong.  I went to a ortho twice....both were 3-5yrs back but both said we can cut you up or just live with it.


and thats not the hernia..... i still have that in my lower left ab area.  


My shoulders snap, crackle, pop.  i rotate them and its terrible.  I bench almost the same amount as i can DB press.  (295 and 110's)

but im just doing what i do.  fuck the knife, me and my tiny vials of special stuff are all i need.  <


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## Four1Thr33

What kinda sholder injury did u have... Mine is very sharp pain when lifting up.  Not really a bench but def pain when sholder pressing.   Not sure if I should try this or stop lifting


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## gymrat827

3-5 yrs back i really had to take it easy with shoulders/chest.  Im not really sure what i did.  And i think it was a on going thing that was never treated or looked at while i was younger.  

if you are getting pain for a certain type of movement id stop it quickly.... or reduce the weight down to pretty much nothing.


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## Four1Thr33

Ya I dropped weight and have been trying to baby it on sholder day... But it has been bothering me for a wile and changed from dull pain to sharp
Have a dr apt in 18 days.


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## gymrat827

Four1Thr33 said:


> *changed from dull pain to sharp*
> 
> 
> 
> stop asap man.  somethings not right if that is happening.
Click to expand...


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## Four1Thr33

I'm guessing stop any sholder lifting .... It's an odd feeling I normally just push threw


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## gymrat827

Four1Thr33 said:


> I'm guessing stop any sholder lifting .... It's an odd feeling I normally just push threw



yea, you need to be looked at.  lifting more will just make it worse.


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## Times Roman

Four1Thr33 said:


> What kinda sholder injury did u have... Mine is very sharp pain when lifting up.  Not really a bench but def pain when sholder pressing.   Not sure if I should try this or stop lifting



My shoulder pain was rotator cuff related and is very typical for those that lift.  My son's was even worse whereby he could not do a single BP or MP.  Six weeks later he's going heavy again, same as me.

I'm telling you guys, for under $100 and six week protocol, it is definately worth investigating.

PM me if you want to know where I get mine......


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## Supra

HGH all the way, I never would mess around with untested shit like that.


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## Times Roman

Supra said:


> HGH all the way, I never would mess around with untested shit like that.



who said it was untested?


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## Supra

Where are the long term studies shown or clinical testing showing short and long term risks of taking it?


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## Times Roman

Supra said:


> Where are the long term studies shown or clinical testing showing short and long term risks of taking it?



this study suggests that administered post heart attack,  there are significant improvements to heart health:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v474/n7353/full/nature10188.html

A significant bottleneck in cardiovascular regenerative medicine is the identification of a viable source of stem/progenitor cells that could contribute new muscle after ischaemic heart disease and acute myocardial infarction1. A therapeutic ideal—relative to cell transplantation—would be to stimulate a resident source, thus avoiding the caveats of limited graft survival, restricted homing to the site of injury and host immune rejection. Here we demonstrate in mice that the adult heart contains a resident stem or progenitor cell population, which has the potential to contribute bona fide terminally differentiated cardiomyocytes after myocardial infarction. We reveal a novel genetic label of the activated adult progenitors via re-expression of a key embryonic epicardial gene, Wilm’s tumour 1 (Wt1), through priming by thymosin β4, a peptide previously shown to restore vascular potential to adult epicardium-derived progenitor cells2 with injury. Cumulative evidence indicates an epicardial origin of the progenitor population, and embryonic reprogramming results in the mobilization of this population and concomitant differentiation to give rise to de novo cardiomyocytes. Cell transplantation confirmed a progenitor source and chromosome painting of labelled donor cells revealed transdifferentiation to a myocyte fate in the absence of cell fusion. Derived cardiomyocytes are shown here to structurally and functionally integrate with resident muscle; as such, stimulation of this adult progenitor pool represents a significant step towards resident-cell-based therapy in human ischaemic heart disease.


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## Times Roman

Supra said:


> Where are the long term studies shown or clinical testing showing short and long term risks of taking it?



Here is something you can watch if you are so inclined:

[video]A significant bottleneck in cardiovascular regenerative medicine is the identification of a viable source of stem/progenitor cells that could contribute new muscle after ischaemic heart disease and acute myocardial infarction1. A therapeutic ideal—relative to cell transplantation—would be to stimulate a resident source, thus avoiding the caveats of limited graft survival, restricted homing to the site of injury and host immune rejection. Here we demonstrate in mice that the adult heart contains a resident stem or progenitor cell population, which has the potential to contribute bona fide terminally differentiated cardiomyocytes after myocardial infarction. We reveal a novel genetic label of the activated adult progenitors via re-expression of a key embryonic epicardial gene, Wilm’s tumour 1 (Wt1), through priming by thymosin β4, a peptide previously shown to restore vascular potential to adult epicardium-derived progenitor cells2 with injury. Cumulative evidence indicates an epicardial origin of the progenitor population, and embryonic reprogramming results in the mobilization of this population and concomitant differentiation to give rise to de novo cardiomyocytes. Cell transplantation confirmed a progenitor source and chromosome painting of labelled donor cells revealed transdifferentiation to a myocyte fate in the absence of cell fusion. Derived cardiomyocytes are shown here to structurally and functionally integrate with resident muscle; as such, stimulation of this adult progenitor pool represents a significant step towards resident-cell-based therapy in human ischaemic heart disease.[/video]


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## Times Roman

Supra said:


> Where are the long term studies shown or clinical testing showing short and long term risks of taking it?



Here is more to read if you care to:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=C8C17D5E9687511263A5602A0E02FE22.d01t02

Published studies have described a number of physiological properties and cellular functions of thymosin β4 (Tβ4), the major G-actin-sequestering molecule in mammalian cells. Those activities include the promotion of cell migration, blood vessel formation, cell survival, stem cell differentiation, the modulation of cytokines, chemokines, and specific proteases, the upregulation of matrix molecules and gene expression, and the downregulation of a major nuclear transcription factor. Such properties have provided the scientific rationale for a number of ongoing and planned dermal, corneal, cardiac clinical trials evaluating the tissue protective, regenerative and repair potential of Tβ4, and direction for future clinical applications in the treatment of diseases of the central nervous system, lung inflammatory disease, and sepsis. A special emphasis is placed on the development of Tβ4 in the treatment of patients with ST elevation myocardial infarction in combination with percutaneous coronary intervention.


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## Supra

Times Roman said:


> this study suggests that administered post heart attack,  there are significant improvements to heart health:
> 
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v474/n7353/full/nature10188.html
> 
> A significant bottleneck in cardiovascular regenerative medicine is the identification of a viable source of stem/progenitor cells that could contribute new muscle after ischaemic heart disease and acute myocardial infarction1. A therapeutic ideal—relative to cell transplantation—would be to stimulate a resident source, thus avoiding the caveats of limited graft survival, restricted homing to the site of injury and host immune rejection. Here we demonstrate in mice that the adult heart contains a resident stem or progenitor cell population, which has the potential to contribute bona fide terminally differentiated cardiomyocytes after myocardial infarction. We reveal a novel genetic label of the activated adult progenitors via re-expression of a key embryonic epicardial gene, Wilm’s tumour 1 (Wt1), through priming by thymosin β4, a peptide previously shown to restore vascular potential to adult epicardium-derived progenitor cells2 with injury. Cumulative evidence indicates an epicardial origin of the progenitor population, and embryonic reprogramming results in the mobilization of this population and concomitant differentiation to give rise to de novo cardiomyocytes. Cell transplantation confirmed a progenitor source and chromosome painting of labelled donor cells revealed transdifferentiation to a myocyte fate in the absence of cell fusion. Derived cardiomyocytes are shown here to structurally and functionally integrate with resident muscle; as such, stimulation of this adult progenitor pool represents a significant step towards resident-cell-based therapy in human ischaemic heart disease.




Just cause it helps with one thing does not mean its a cure all. How long has this stuff been out, whats the clinical long term risk/rewards? This stuff has been out how long, and I promise you, or assure you that no one is getting pharma grade of it, its coming from some UGL or peptide lab where who knows what the hell they put in it. Im not going to be a Guinea pig for that shit. How long has it been out, stuff like this has been hitting the market for years, sarms, gh50156 this tb-5000 that and they come and go as quickly as they came. 

What does stick is things like GH, Steroids, L-Carnitine, and all the tried and true stuff.


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## Times Roman

Supra said:


> Where are the long term studies shown or clinical testing showing short and long term risks of taking it?



So in general, thymosins are wide spread thoughout a variety of tissues and are fairly common through out the body.  As such, they are as benign as pretty much any other part of the body.  They are simple chains of amino acids, formed into peptides, and much simpler than a protein.

Hope this helps?

---Roman


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## Supra

You quoted me three different times about the same question..without bothering to read post #21.

"





Supra said:


> Just cause it helps with one thing does not mean its a cure all. How long has this stuff been out, whats the clinical long term risk/rewards? This stuff has been out how long, and I promise you, or assure you that no one is getting pharma grade of it, its coming from some UGL or peptide lab where who knows what the hell they put in it. Im not going to be a Guinea pig for that shit. How long has it been out, stuff like this has been hitting the market for years, sarms, gh50156 this tb-5000 that and they come and go as quickly as they came.
> 
> What does stick is things like GH, Steroids, L-Carnitine, and all the tried and true stuff.


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## Times Roman

Supra said:


> Just cause it helps with one thing does not mean its a cure all. How long has this stuff been out, whats the clinical long term risk/rewards? This stuff has been out how long, and I promise you, or assure you that no one is getting pharma grade of it, *its coming from some UGL or peptide lab where who knows what the hell they put in it. *Im not going to be a Guinea pig for that shit. How long has it been out, stuff like this has been hitting the market for years, sarms, gh50156 this tb-5000 that and they come and go as quickly as they came.
> 
> What does stick is things like GH, Steroids, L-Carnitine, and all the tried and true stuff.



I couldn't agree with you more mate.  But then again, so is all the gear we put into our bodies, is it not?  How many of us get pharm grade gear, and how many have to resort to UGL's?  So if this is a concern, then I'd suggest not patronizing ANY UGL.

Additionally, there are several TB500 logs being recorded right now that I know about.  This is yet another way of testing, is it not?

In fact, this is the predominant way we determine what works when it comes to gear.  Very little hard clinical data is out there for what we do, so we have to rely on anecdotal evidence, inference, personal experience, and the experiences of others.

My point is that it works.  And the medical community feels it is safe enough to have run a variety of trials that use this product.  No, I can't give you an iron clad guarantee, but then again, what in life really is?

It's a personal decision.  If you don't feel it's right for you, I 100% respect that.  But there are many that I personally know that have found relief by this product and it has improved their quality of life.

Peace
---Roman


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## gymrat827

its a fucking research chem..... 


of course its bad for you.  you think a DNP run or another powerful cutter is good for the body...No.  but for a short amount of time, controlled dose, its not the end of the world.  

i dont mean to bitch


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## Times Roman

gymrat827 said:


> its a fucking research chem.....
> 
> 
> of course its bad for you.  you think a DNP run or another powerful cutter is good for the body...No.  but for a short amount of time, controlled dose, its not the end of the world.
> 
> i dont mean of bitch



it's actually not that bad for you.  and I do agree with you it is designed for short term use.  six weeks with six pins in most cases.


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## Christosterone

@supra, hgh isn't without it's sides also, especially long term, this peptide sounds like its run in a short period to help heal, which, although not considered 100% safe due to the unknown long term, wouldn't be too much of an issue since its short and sweet


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## HDH

Bump

HDH


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## Killing Time

I recently got TB500 to investigate its healing properties. I am unsure though, where would be the best place to inject, ie subq in my belly like normal, 
or subq close to the joint in question, ie hip, shoulder or knee. Or does it really, make much of difference where its pinned


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## Times Roman

Killing Time said:


> I recently got TB500 to investigate its healing properties. I am unsure though, where would be the best place to inject, ie subq in my belly like normal,
> or subq close to the joint in question, ie hip, shoulder or knee. Or does it really, make much of difference where its pinned



Just SubQ in the belly is what i've done and everyone i know has done.  one gentleman that got me looking at it several months ago was actually experimenting with injection sites and the impact that has on specific injury recovery.  His conclusion was that it really didn't matter where you pinned, and then he just ended up subQ in the belly.

let me know if this helps

---Roman


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## Christosterone

What is daily dose for this?


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## Times Roman

Christosterone said:


> What is daily dose for this?



from the first panel

week/dose
 1 / 5mg
 2 thru 6 / 2.5mg


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## Christosterone

5 Mgs a day?


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## corvettels3

Any new info?


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## PillarofBalance

corvettels3 said:


> Any new info?




From what I understand its per week.


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## Times Roman

sorry it took me so long to get back to you guys.

Yes,  TB is some excellent stuff.  I keep buying more all the time.  Just purchased 20 more 5mg vials.  this makes total vials of 5mg purchased 40 vials, plus my inititial 15mg i bought to get started.

I typically only pin once a week, and typically 2.5mg, or half a vial.

I'm in agreement with everyone elses observations that noticeable improvement in 3 weeks, with 90% improvement in six weeks.  what used to take months to rehab (tendonitis; 6+ months) now only takes weeks.

there is a young lady on another board that just had surgery on her shoulder, and has taken her third injection.  she said her range of motion is more than what her PT was expecting it would be.  but it is still early with her.


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## pirovoliko

TR, 

I have also had a lot of success with tb-500 from mpr..Thanks in great part to you and your advice.  Do you continue to take it every week?  Not the monthly maintenance dose?


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## Times Roman

pirovoliko said:


> TR,
> 
> I have also had a lot of success with tb-500 from mpr..Thanks in great part to you and your advice.  Do you continue to take it every week?  Not the monthly maintenance dose?



Yes.  I don't consider a maintenance dose, as I won't be taking it if pain free.  But my damn shoulder is bugging me again, so I'm back on at 2.5mg/week.


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## corvettels3

Times Roman said:


> Yes.  I don't consider a maintenance dose, as I won't be taking it if pain free.  But my damn shoulder is bugging me again, so I'm back on at 2.5mg/week.



so are saying the pain came back after you discontinued?


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## goodfella

Friend recently ran it and mentioned how great it's healing powers really are! He wouldn't shut up about it! So for that reason I got a lil for a raining day


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## Times Roman

corvettels3 said:


> so are saying the pain came back after you discontinued?



it came back not so much because I discontinued using, but more because when I go heavy on the bench it happens, like i'm reagggrevating it.

If i only went ligght/moderate on the bench,  then my shoulders wouldn't be so sore.


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## Live2Train

Your post has me quite curious Times Roman.  My shoulder has been bothering me for some time now.  Only after doing bench and only lasts about 3 days on average.  It doesn't hurt much on shoulder days, just flat bench.  Weird I know, but it must be the way the weight is distributed.  I seriously thinks it's tendonitis, because it hurts most around the bone at the end of the collor bone.  It's in the top of the shoulder.  Anyhow, I might give this a try and see if it helps out.  Of course I'm going to do more research on it first though.  Thanks for the informative post bro!


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## Joliver

Live2Train said:


> Your post has me quite curious Times Roman.  My shoulder has been bothering me for some time now.  Only after doing bench and only lasts about 3 days on average.  It doesn't hurt much on shoulder days, just flat bench.  Weird I know, but it must be the way the weight is distributed.  I seriously thinks it's tendonitis, because it hurts most around the bone at the end of the collor bone.  It's in the top of the shoulder.  Anyhow, I might give this a try and see if it helps out.  Of course I'm going to do more research on it first though.  Thanks for the informative post bro!



Bringing on old thread back from the dead is not a responsibility that I take lightly, but TB500 should be a staple in the arsenal of anyone who lifts heavy, has nagging injuries, or finds themselves on the wrong side of 30...

It dramatically aided in my return from a tricep and quad tear. Good stuff. Plus it makes you feel better. Hurts less to get out of the bed and whatnot...


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## j2048b

joliver said:


> Bringing on old thread back from the dead is not a responsibility that I take lightly, but TB500 should be a staple in the arsenal of anyone who lifts heavy, has nagging injuries, or finds themselves on the wrong side of 30...
> 
> It dramatically aided in my return from a tricep and quad tear. Good stuff. Plus it makes you feel better. Hurts less to get out of the bed and whatnot...



Allthough it maybe good have u read about any of the cancer scares associated with this compound?

Also y not try bpc 157 instead? From my understanding this is a relative of sorts of tb-500 and actually shows regrowth of tendons and muscle...


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## Joliver

J20 said:


> Allthough it maybe good have u read about any of the cancer scares associated with this compound?
> 
> Also y not try bpc 157 instead? From my understanding this is a relative of sorts of tb-500 and actually shows regrowth of tendons and muscle...



You know, I have heard a few cancer stories, and they make physiological sense.  It makes sense that anything that suppresses your body's natural tendency to deal with injury or infection (inflammation) could leave you susceptible to radical cellular growth.  I am not sure it has been tested enough to say, but moderation is most likely the key to successful administration.

I have read about it.  I have had so much luck with TB, that I want to leave with the broad that took me to the dance.  Also, its newer to me.  May be hard to find a decent supplier that doesn't want my blood, or isn't selling bunk.  Additionally, I want to find out if the collagen deposition is of the cross-linked persuasion.  Any ideas or thoughts on that?


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## TheBlob

Holy crap Joliver your smarter than hell! Im impressed im glad your one of my go to guys for advice


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## j2048b

joliver said:


> You know, I have heard a few cancer stories, and they make physiological sense.  It makes sense that anything that suppresses your body's natural tendency to deal with injury or infection (inflammation) could leave you susceptible to radical cellular growth.  I am not sure it has been tested enough to say, but moderation is most likely the key to successful administration.
> 
> I have read about it.  I have had so much luck with TB, that I want to leave with the broad that took me to the dance.  Also, its newer to me.  May be hard to find a decent supplier that doesn't want my blood, or isn't selling bunk.  Additionally, I want to find out if the collagen deposition is of the cross-linked persuasion.  Any ideas or thoughts on that?




I will def research the collagen deposition and see if i can find if it is of the crosslinked?

and what does that actually mean? Haha! Not sure as im not too deep into any of this but man i need something for my tendons and shoulders...


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## Joliver

TheBlob said:


> Holy crap Joliver your smarter than hell! Im impressed im glad your one of my go to guys for advice



Thanks Blob! I help when I can...but notice Doc and I are never on at the same time?  That's because I kidnapped his ass and make him type out educated remarks to make me look good and smart-like.  He is on lunch right now, but whenever he is finished eating his gruel, I will have him back correcting my grammatical errors.  




J20 said:


> I will def research the collagen deposition and see if i can find if it is of the crosslinked?
> 
> and what does that actually mean? Haha! Not sure as im not too deep into any of this but man i need something for my tendons and shoulders...



Collagen cross-linkage is what gives it shear strength or its ability to withstand multi-directional torque.  Winstrol will give you bigger, thicker tendons.  But the collagen fibers aren't cross-linked, so it has only one dimensional tensile strength.  When subjected to sufficient torque--surgery time.   But when you cross-link the collagen fibers, you essentially give the tissue tensile strength in all directions.  An example would be a bridge...look underneath and you will see the girders are crossed over each other giving multi-dimensional stability.

 If the collagen is of the cross-linked flavor...I would buy a metric ton of it.  It would be worth its weight in gold.


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## HeiseTX

Anything new...think about giving it a go


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## SteelCity

Can anyone provide information on trusted sites to procure tb500 or bpc157?


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## Trump

Why this popped up?



SteelCity said:


> Can anyone provide information on trusted sites to procure tb500 or bpc157?


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## DOOM

Joliver said:


> Bringing on old thread back from the dead is not a responsibility that I take lightly, but TB500 should be a staple in the arsenal of anyone who lifts heavy, has nagging injuries, or finds themselves on the wrong side of 30...
> 
> It dramatically aided in my return from a tricep and quad tear. Good stuff. Plus it makes you feel better. Hurts less to get out of the bed and whatnot...



Nice post bro! You seem to have quite a bit of knowledge when it comes to injuries. I have contemplated giving TB500 a try for this up comimg snowboard season. I am almost 48 years old and have built up quite a bit of scar tissue from a unrepaired MCL/ACL injury from about 12 years ago. It was a crazy time in my life and i had no insurance. This is before I even started lifting and it actually happen having sex! YUP!! True story..

I could barely walk but still had to work. All of this was pretty depressing. I was always very active and athletic. So I gave up snowboarding for about three years. I wore a brace for a long time until I built up enough scar tissue and strength. I fought through it though and made it back on that mountain. 

Its hard to say but my estimate is that my knee is currently about 70 percent of what it was before the injury! The lateral movements are still a little sketchy and when i crouch down in a catchers position it knots up! Long story short I am still able to do everything i did before my injury with my biggest declining factor being endurance. My leg size and strength is much better now after becoming serious about lifting and using steroids.

Lol, sorry about the novel but it is a interesting story. I honestly feel lucky to have recovered as much as I have without surgery. Do you think TB500 would help on an old injury like this?


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## DOOM

Trump said:


> Why this popped up?


 
Why are you tricking my stoned ass by bumping this old thread? I have bad eyes too! 

Lol, spilling my guts and asking for information from a 8 year old thread! Lol, fuk me! :32 (18):


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