# Rate my workout



## Soulmam2477 (Jan 13, 2022)

I am a beginner and looking for a workout full body workout any advice is good advice. 52KG I weigh

I have access to pull up bar, dips bar and barbell with a rack to do overhead press and squats

Workout A

Squats
Dips
Pull-ups
Overhead press
Bicep curls
Press ups
Workout B

Lunges
Dips
chin-ups
Overhead press
press ups
Bicep curls
Full body 3 X a week
8 to 10 reps
3 sets

Or 20 squat program ? Where I do 20 rep squats for 1 set and do upper body workout?

I need advice


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## RiR0 (Jan 13, 2022)

How much weight do you have? Are you willing to do more than 3 days?


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## CJ (Jan 13, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> I am a beginner and looking for a workout full body workout any advice is good advice. 52KG I weigh
> 
> I have access to pull up bar, dips bar and barbell with a rack to do overhead press and squats
> 
> ...


I'm a fan of full body, 3 times per week for beginners. You're on the right path.


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## Soulmam2477 (Jan 13, 2022)

CJ said:


> I'm a fan of full body, 3 times per week for beginners. You're on the right path.



Is my program good ?


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## RiR0 (Jan 13, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Is my program good ?


I wouldn’t recommend it


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## Soulmam2477 (Jan 13, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I wouldn’t recommend it



How do I make it better ?


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## CJ (Jan 13, 2022)

I might switch it to something like this...

Workout A

Squats
Barbell/Inverted Rows
Benchpress
Chinups
Triceps
Lateral Raises
Workout B

Lunges
Overhead Press
Pullups
Dips
Bicep curls
Calf Raises
It's a little more even. I'd even think about adding in Deadlifts instead of Lunges, although I love lunges too.


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## RiR0 (Jan 13, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> How do I make it better ?


That’s why I was asking are you committed to only 3 days a week? And how much weight do you have?


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## Soulmam2477 (Jan 13, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> That’s why I was asking are you committed to only 3 days a week? And how much weight do you have?



3 day yes and I can always buy more weight plates


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## CJ (Jan 13, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> 3 day yes and I can always buy more weight plates


Are you male or female?


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## Soulmam2477 (Jan 13, 2022)

Male 52kg- I just want a full body and I am trying to make one based on my equipment


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## CJ (Jan 13, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Male 52kg


Wasn't sure, the weight threw me off.


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## Soulmam2477 (Jan 13, 2022)

CJ said:


> Wasn't sure, the weight threw me off.



Yes I was 59kg and then lost weight because I was ill now 52kg 

I can now do 2 pull ups and press up which I could not do before (I was working out with no real plan before I was ill)


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## Seeker (Jan 13, 2022)

Based on what you have access to work with i would add stiff legged deads for both A & B. Delete the chinups on B and add barbell bent over rows.


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## Skullcrusher (Jan 13, 2022)

It gets the Charles Atlas seal of approval.


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## RiR0 (Jan 13, 2022)

I don’t think the rep ranges matter all that much as long you go to failure or pretty close and you’re adding weight, reps, and controlling the weight more over time
I’m also not a fan of full body for most people because it’s hard to put full effort into everything. 
Maybe something like this
A)Pull-ups 3 sets to failure +10 negatives 
     Military press 6-9,10-12
     Dips 3x failure 
     Squats 2x15-20
     Rdl 6-9,10-12 
     Barbell curls 2x15-20
     Calf raises and abs 

 B)bench press 6-9,10-12
     Barbell bent row 6-9,10-12
     Lat raises 2x15-20
     Walking lunges 2xfailure 
     Hammer curls 10-12,15-20
     Skull crusher 2x15-20
     Abs and calves 

Alternate a and b. 
Ex: Monday A
       Wednesday B
       Friday A

       Monday B
       Wednesday A
       Friday B


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## Soulmam2477 (Jan 13, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I don’t think the rep ranges matter all that much as long you go to failure or pretty close and you’re adding weight, reps, and controlling the weight more over time
> I’m also not a fan of full body for most people because it’s hard to put full effort into everything.
> Maybe something like this
> A)Pull-ups 3 sets to failure +10 negatives
> ...



Haha I can't even do pull ups two and I am dead again I have no bench & no dumbbells Iike the routine just not for me


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## Seeker (Jan 13, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Haha I can't even do pull ups two and I am dead again I have no bench & no dumbbells Iike the routine just not for me


Go easy kid. At 52 kg take it slow. One workout at a time and don't rush through them.


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## RiR0 (Jan 13, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Haha I can't even do pull ups two and I am dead again I have no bench & no dumbbells Iike the routine just not for me


You don’t need dbs. Use a plate in each hand. Do 2 pull-ups or do 1 pull-up and then on your last set jump up into the top part of the movement and slowly lower yourself down controlling the negative do that 10x. Rest as long as needed between working sets. 
You’re the one who posted bench press. 
Instead of bench just do dips then. Push-ups aren’t going to build any strength or muscle.


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## RiR0 (Jan 13, 2022)

I misread. You didn’t put bench press. Since you have a rack can you do floor press?


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## wotmeworry (Jan 13, 2022)

As long as you are over your illness you should make good gains with relatively low volume workouts.
My thoughts:
Watch your joints (aim for 8-12 reps) and don't overload with too many sets and taking sets all the way to failure (you likely won't gain much and risk injury/longer recovery).
Progress weight/reps slowly, focusing on form, especially eccentric (lowering) part of the movement (control not momentum).
Eat enough to gain weight.
You should be able to get by with one exercise per movement for a while, so full body makes sense to me (frequency benefits).  You can vary the exercises per movement (subject to eqpt limitations) across the week.
Happy gains!


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## Soulmam2477 (Jan 25, 2022)

Currently I am running thisI am running this program 7 workouts in

Workout A


Squats
Dips
Pull-ups
Overhead press
Bicep curls
Press ups

Workout B


Lunges
Dips
Bent over rows
Overhead press
press ups
Bicep curls
3 times a week is doing overhead press three times a week a bit too much and I don't have access to a bench or dumbbells


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## wotmeworry (Jan 25, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Currently I am running thisI am running this program 7 workouts in
> 
> Workout A
> 
> ...


Quick thoughts:
Nothing for hamstrings - can you hook your ankles under something and do nordic hams (just the eccentric at first)? - put some padding under your knees with this, too.

Skip dips (risk to shoulders with little reward, in my opinion).

Skip one overhead press session and add lateral raises (you can hold a plate if no dumbbells).  I like doing these one set prone and another set standing to balance the resistance across the entire range.

Another thought: if you find the frequency hurting a muscle, you could change the rep range in one session (go lighter for a set of ~20), this might help.  Otherwise skip that muscle for one session.


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## MrBafner (Jan 25, 2022)

I would change a couple of things for this workout ...

Workout A

Thrusters (instead of squats)
Diamond close grip pushups
Pull-ups
Bear complex
Bicep curls
Floor presses

Workout B

Lunges
Dips
Bent over rows
Overhead press
press ups
Concentration curls


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## CJ (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> I would change a couple of things for this workout ...
> 
> Workout A
> 
> ...


He's currently googling Thruster and Bear Complex. 🤣


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> I would change a couple of things for this workout ...
> 
> Workout A
> 
> ...


Why thrusters instead of squats? Squats are much better for legs growth and strength.
Do you think the bear complex is a better exercise for growth?
Why diamond push-ups? I think he should abandon push-ups all together and replace it with a floor place.
If I’m looking for growth I’m going to use simple movements that I can do that I can overload the muscle with the most weight


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## shackleford (Jan 26, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Currently I am running thisI am running this program 7 workouts in
> 
> Workout A
> 
> ...


Personally, I would tweak it slightly to this:

Workout A


Squats
Pull-ups
Overhead press
Bicep curls
Press ups

Workout B


Deadlift
Dips
Bent over rows
press ups
Bicep curls

Invest in a bench when you can. 
If you're struggling with pullups, go until you fail and then finish the set with bodyweight rows.


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## shackleford (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Why thrusters instead of squats? Squats are much better for legs growth and strength.
> Do you think the bear complex is a better exercise for growth?
> Why diamond push-ups? I think he should abandon push-ups all together and replace it with a floor place.
> If I’m looking for growth I’m going to use simple movements that I can do that I can overload the muscle with the most weight


i assumed he would be supersetting the pushups with the curls, focusing more on the arms at the end if the session. But you know what they say about assume 🤷‍♂️


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## MrBafner (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Why thrusters instead of squats? Squats are much better for legs growth and strength.
> Do you think the bear complex is a better exercise for growth?
> Why diamond push-ups? I think he should abandon push-ups all together and replace it with a floor place.
> If I’m looking for growth I’m going to use simple movements that I can do that I can overload the muscle with the most weight



For starters he is after a full body workout using his equipment that he hasn't listed, nor the weight he uses. I assume he doesn't have much weight .. saying that a 52kg dude with a bar having maybe 10kg each side isn't going to produce growth or strength. Doing thrusters he is doing front squats and shoulders at the same time .. he will achieve a lot more definition in his legs than trying for size.

Bear complex after thrusters means his legs are probably fatigued and with a small weight, I would consider this an overall workout that could induce a small amount of growth.

As for diamond pushups instead of dips ... chances are he is doing dips wrong and targeting the wrong muscle.  Diamond pushups will produce a better pump and he won't fatigue during pullups, but will be a great warmup to be ready for bear complex.


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> For starters he is after a full body workout using his equipment that he hasn't listed, nor the weight he uses. I assume he doesn't have much weight .. saying that a 52kg dude with a bar having maybe 10kg each side isn't going to produce growth or strength. Doing thrusters he is doing front squats and shoulders at the same time .. he will achieve a lot more definition in his legs than trying for size.
> 
> Bear complex after thrusters means his legs are probably fatigued and with a small weight, I would consider this an overall workout that could induce a small amount of growth.
> 
> As for diamond pushups instead of dips ... chances are he is doing dips wrong and targeting the wrong muscle.  Diamond pushups will produce a better pump and he won't fatigue during pullups, but will be a great warmup to be ready for bear complex.


There’s so much wrong here. You should not give advice


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## CJ (Jan 26, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> I am a beginner and looking for a workout full body workout any advice is good advice. 52KG I weigh
> 
> I have access to pull up bar, dips bar and barbell with a rack to do overhead press and squats
> 
> ...


Any reason you don't have a bench, or can't buy one?


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> For starters he is after a full body workout using his equipment that he hasn't listed, nor the weight he uses. I assume he doesn't have much weight .. saying that a 52kg dude with a bar having maybe 10kg each side isn't going to produce growth or strength. Doing thrusters he is doing front squats and shoulders at the same time .. he will achieve a lot more definition in his legs than trying for size.
> 
> Bear complex after thrusters means his legs are probably fatigued and with a small weight, I would consider this an overall workout that could induce a small amount of growth.
> 
> As for diamond pushups instead of dips ... chances are he is doing dips wrong and targeting the wrong muscle.  Diamond pushups will produce a better pump and he won't fatigue during pullups, but will be a great warmup to be ready for bear complex.


Okay. Did you really say more leg definition instead of size? Please explain to me how it will “achieve more leg definition”. Definition comes from being lean, fat loss. You can’t carve a statue out of a pebble. Do you really believe in “toning exercises”? 
You can’t do an exercise to shape or define. Muscles atrophy, grow, or stay the same size. That’s it. A stronger muscle is a bigger muscle. 
Pumps don’t mean shit. He could get a good pump by curling soup cans for 100reps. It won’t produce growth. 
Thrusters and bear complex are shit for growth. Go back to the fitness group class with those. 
You think he won’t be able to do dips properly (one of the easiest, most natural movement to not fuck up), but he should do thrusters and a bear complex? 
He was doing push-ups for chest. 
He’s got limited equipment.  anyone with basic knowledge of muscle growth and strength would recommend basic movements that you can overload the muscle with the most mechanical tension. 
So yes, I stand by the FACT that you should not give any one advice.


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## MrBafner (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> There’s so much wrong here. You should not give advice


Arr we have a knob that lives inside the box ... not everyone is meant to be a bodybuilder, nor strongman you dick. He wants to put on a bit of size and look good.

The kid has a bar with a small amount of weight, a pull up bar, dip bar, squat rack, no bench ... sounds like crossfit bud.

You obviously have issues with movements that aren't in the  bodybuilding / powerliftong criteria .. well they are, you are probably just an idiot that has never done them.

There is more to leg development than squats. Maybe you should actually go and workout sometime instead of being the wanker that goes around the gym like your a fucking text book trainer.


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 26, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> I am a beginner and looking for a workout full body workout any advice is good advice. 52KG I weigh
> 
> I have access to pull up bar, dips bar and barbell with a rack to do overhead press and squats
> 
> ...


So many moments that can be done with that limited equipment. The limits are endless.. AND YES I AM  I am being serious.


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Arr we have a knob that lives inside the box ... not everyone is meant to be a bodybuilder, nor strongman you dick. He wants to put on a bit of size and look good.
> 
> The kid has a bar with a small amount of weight, a pull up bar, dip bar, squat rack, no bench ... sounds like crossfit bud.
> 
> ...


Nope doesn’t sound like cross fit it sounds like he’s got basic equipment and wants to build some muscle.
I have issues with bad advice.
I’ll post my legs you post yours.😜
I just understand how to program correctly.
I never made the claim squats were only needed but with limited equipment there’s not a better exercise.
Stay offended I don’t care. I’m a lot of things and one thing I am is knowledgeable when it comes to this.
I’m a dick yes. You’re a whiney pussy who doesn’t understand proper programming.
I have issues with no movements when they are utilized and programmed properly.
Please explain your definition through a certain exercise.


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## MrBafner (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Okay. Did you really say more leg definition instead of size? Please explain to me how it will “achieve more leg definition”. Definition comes from being lean, fat loss. You can’t carve a statue out of a pebble. Do you really believe in “toning exercises”?
> You can’t do an exercise to shape or define. Muscles atrophy, grow, or stay the same size. That’s it. A stronger muscle is a bigger muscle.
> Pumps don’t mean shit. He could get a good pump by curling soup cans for 100reps. It won’t produce growth.
> Thrusters and bear complex are shit for growth. Go back to the fitness group class with those.
> ...


Wow .. you really believe this shit you just posted? .. I can't believe you are saying this bullshit

"You can't do an exercise to shape or define" .. 
"Pumps don't mean shit" ..
"Thrusters and bear complex are shit for growth" ..

When he is doing dips .. what muscle do you think he is working? .. chest, back, triceps?
When doing pushups .. how is his hand placement
The kid can do 2 pushups .. thrusters and bear complex are the best for development, and definition .. but you don't exercise for definition, obviously.


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Okay. Did you really say more leg definition instead of size? Please explain to me how it will “achieve more leg definition”. Definition comes from being lean, fat loss. You can’t carve a statue out of a pebble. Do you really believe in “toning exercises”?
> You can’t do an exercise to shape or define. Muscles atrophy, grow, or stay the same size. That’s it. A stronger muscle is a bigger muscle.
> Pumps don’t mean shit. He could get a good pump by curling soup cans for 100reps. It won’t produce growth.
> Thrusters and bear complex are shit for growth. Go back to the fitness group class with those.
> ...


Why would curling soup cans for 100reps not produce growth. If you do enough sets of them your muscle will grow..
So are you telling me if I take a 15 pound dumbbell and pound out 3 sets of 100 with proper form, contraction, concentration on a slow and steady rhythm that my muscles will not tire and work and there for have to repair themselves to grow???
And yes I do curls 20-25 dbl’s all day… and get a good workout and wake up and my arms may feel destroyed. And I can curls 60poundrd all day with proper form..I feel less is more… anyway.
Maybe I am wrong. I’ve only been at this 6 months or so… hopefully I can save up enough money to get a squat rack and bench because my total gym is really  limiting me. 
Also BTW. Thrusters and calisthenics exercises won’t produce growth.???
Tell that to all the jacked mutherfuckers I Rikers or Pelican bay or any other place were all people have to do it workout all day with no weights. 1000 burpee’s and 1000 push ups a day. As that’s before lunch.  
How about a navy seal. Calisthenics all day. And some of those dude are fn jacked.
So bro I think you went off on a little bit of a high horse tangent without really thinking about what your saying. And maybe before you give anyone advice 
……. THINK!!


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## MrBafner (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I’ll post my legs you post yours.😜


Sure .. here are my legs 1 day out of the worlds amatuer bodybuilding competition in Dubai


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Wow .. you really believe this shit you just posted? .. I can't believe you are saying this bullshit
> 
> "You can't do an exercise to shape or define" ..
> "Pumps don't mean shit" ..
> ...


I can’t believe you think you should give advice. Do you believe you can shape or tone a muscle? Does pump build tissue? Why can’t we all just build massive chests with a 95 lb bar then? I can get a hell of a pump with only the bar. 
Dips? Well retard. It’s chest and triceps.
Explain to me how you can lift weights for definition. 
A muscle grows, shrinks or stays the same. Definition comes from fat loss. This is not even up for debate 😂.


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Wow .. you really believe this shit you just posted? .. I can't believe you are saying this bullshit
> 
> "You can't do an exercise to shape or define" ..
> "Pumps don't mean shit" ..
> ...


He is shot bro. He has no clueWTF HE IS TALKING  ABOUT!!


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Sure .. here are my legs 1 day out of the worlds amatuer bodybuilding competition in Dubai
> 
> View attachment 17688


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I can’t believe you think you should give advice. Do you believe you can shape or tone a muscle? Does pump build tissue? Why can’t we all just build massive chests with a 95 lb bar then? I can get a hell of a pump with only the bar.
> Dips? Well retard. It’s chest and triceps.
> Explain to me how you can lift weights for definition.
> A muscle grows, shrinks or stays the same. Definition comes from fat loss. This is not even up for debate 😂.


So muscles don’t get definition… 
What you should be saying is Chuck , fat loss enhances muscle definition… but muscle do get defined bro.. You are making no sense at all…


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Why would curling soup cans for 100reps not produce growth. If you do enough sets of them your muscle will grow..
> So are you telling me if I take a 15 pound dumbbell and pound out 3 sets of 100 with proper form, contraction, concentration on a slow and steady rhythm that my muscles will not tire and work and there for have to repair themselves to grow???
> And yes I do curls 20-25 dbl’s all day… and get a good workout and wake up and my arms may feel destroyed. And I can curls 60poundrd all day with proper form..I feel less is more… anyway.
> Maybe I am wrong. I’ve only been at this 6 months or so… hopefully I can save up enough money to get a squat rack and bench because my total gym is really  limiting me.
> ...


Are you serious? Plenty of evidence shows after about 30 reps no growth is produced. You’re getting endurance. 
They are jacked not from calisthenics unless they’re a genetic freak.  
There’s a reason the strongest guys are the biggest.


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## TODAY (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Nope doesn’t sound like cross fit it sounds like he’s got basic equipment and wants to build some muscle.
> I have issues with bad advice.
> I’ll post my legs you post yours.😜
> I just understand how to program correctly.
> ...


A recent study found that hijacking well-intentioned threads by starting a random dick-measuring contest is catabolic to quadricep tissue.

Also, it's cringey as fuck. Y'all need to harden up and stop derailing threads with this fragile nonsense.


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> So muscles don’t get definition…
> What you should be saying is Chuck , fat loss enhances muscle definition… but muscle do get defined bro.. You are making no sense at all…


Fatloss shows the definition. You cannot do a fucking exercise to tone or define.


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

TODAY said:


> A recent study found that hijacking well-intentioned threads by starting a random dick-measuring contest is catabolic to quadricep tissue.
> 
> Also, it's cringey as fuck. Y'all need to harden up and stop derailing threads with this fragile nonsense.


Don’t fucking quote or tag me in this shit. I’m trying hit cut through the nonsense


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## Badleroybrown (Jan 26, 2022)

Big deal bro. I don’t even give a fuck if this is truly you or some bottom boy you know… if you look this great from the waist down, instead of making people feel like shot with what they post you should take some time and give some knowledge back to the community… or to someone who may not know anything.. 
but I guess you showed us all with your picture..


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

I don’t care if anybody here likes me or has my back. I don’t care about senior members. A tags is meaningless. I cannot stand nonsense and misinformation. I’ve posted plenty of pics. It’s me. I don’t hang out with bottom boys or trannies or whatever weird shit you’re into. He said I need to go train or whatever so that’s my response. I give plenty of knowledge if you’d actually read. 
Go talk more shit about me in the other thread too. 


Badleroybrown said:


> Big deal bro. I don’t even give a fuck if this is truly you or some bottom boy you know… if you look this great from the waist down, instead of making people feel like shot with what they post you should take some time and give some knowledge back to the community… or to someone who may not know anything..
> but I guess you showed us all with your picture..


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## RiR0 (Jan 26, 2022)

So the consensus is the members here would rather protect grown mens feelings over actually helping people with factual information. Cool I’m fucking out.


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## MrBafner (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> I can’t believe you think you should give advice. Do you believe you can shape or tone a muscle? Does pump build tissue? Why can’t we all just build massive chests with a 95 lb bar then? I can get a hell of a pump with only the bar.
> Dips? Well retard. It’s chest and triceps.
> Explain to me how you can lift weights for definition.
> A muscle grows, shrinks or stays the same. Definition comes from fat loss. This is not even up for debate 😂.


Do I believe you can shape and tone muscle .. most definitely, what do you think body sculpting / bodybuilding is?

Does pump build tissue .. most definitely, how do you think the blood that carries all the nutrients, proteins and all the other goodies gets to your muscle. The pump is your blood filling the muscle.

Dips if incorrectly done will do a lot of damage to the shoulders. Is he leaning forward, back, upright .. is he doing full range .. you wouldn't have a clue. Probably working a lot more than chest and tricep.

Lifting weights for definition is done with the amount of reps, sets, and weights .. not just take lots of drugs, pretend to lift heavy and walk around like the wanker you seem to be. The variations of movements can also help, isn't just one movement for legs, arms, shoulders .. whatever.

Muscle is made up of many things .. if you didn't do so much coke you'd probably know.


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## TODAY (Jan 26, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So the consensus is the members here would rather protect grown mens feelings over actually helping people with factual information. Cool I’m fucking out.


Does the idea of being even half way civil really trigger you that much?


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## The Phoenix (Jan 27, 2022)

I've read a lot of good beginner exercises that the others have recommended.  All i can add is that you remain consistent.  You will have up and downs, you will also fluctuate - this is a journey and do it the best way you can at your abilities.💪😎🤙


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## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

Ive done 1,000's of Thrusters, they will NOT build your legs maximally, or even efficiently. You're limited by your ability to press the barbell overhead, which is a lot less weight than your legs can handle, and your arms will tire out well before your legs will. No one has ever failed a thruster on the squat portion. Not even in the same league as squats or many other leg specific exercises for growth and development, for legs OR shoulders.

Same with the bear complex. You're limited in weight to what you can put overhead. And it's so many movements within that complex, you don't efficiently train anything except your cardiovascular endurance and/or lactic threshold.

I would never put either in a weight training program, especially for a beginner. You know how much time would be wasted just learning to clean the barbell properly?


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## Methyl mike (Jan 27, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Yes I was 59kg and then lost weight because I was ill now 52kg
> 
> I can now do 2 pull ups and press up which I could not do before (I was working out with no real plan before I was ill)


Are you at least 18 years old?


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## Send0 (Jan 27, 2022)

I'd like to remind everyone that the OP is a beginner. A beginner can grow and gain doing almost anything at all. A beginner will even grow doing just push up variations, if that's a they can do.

IMO, he should choose whatever program that will let him lift consistently, and in turn allow him to form.a habit out of it. From there he can push harder, learn about intensity techniques, and use more advanced programming.

forming a habit, and being consistent, is very important in the beginning.


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## RiR0 (Jan 27, 2022)

I agree there’s many roads to a destination but there is usually a most optimal path.
There’s also certain things are objectively true.
A pump doesn’t build tissue.
You cannot shape a muscle. A muscle grows, shrinks or stays the same size. It’s shape is predetermined.
You cannot do toning or defining exercises.
Definition comes from being lean.
Mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth.
The best exercises to build muscle especially for a beginner are the most basic that you can overload the muscle with the most weight.
It blows my mind when I see guys that are supposed to be knowledgeable post debunked nonsense and double down on it.


----------



## The Phoenix (Jan 27, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I'd like to remind everyone that the OP is a beginner. A beginner can grow and gain doing almost anything at all. A beginner will even grow doing just push up variations, if that's a they can do.
> 
> IMO, he should choose whatever program that will let him lift consistently, and in turn allow him to form.a habit out of it. From there he can push harder, learn about intensity techniques, and use more advanced programming.
> 
> forming a habit, and being consistent, is very important in the beginning.



Perfectly stated.  Remember guys, we all started somewhere.  He's come to a great place for encouragement, education and entertainment (for some)!


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 27, 2022)

The Phoenix said:


> Perfectly stated.  Remember guys, we all started somewhere.  He's come to a great place for encouragement, education and entertainment (for some)!


Right he’s a beginner so he should get a head start and we should help him cut through the bs that we all had to.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Right he’s a beginner so he should get a head start and we should help him cut through the bs that we all had to.


100% 

KISS... Keep It Simple, Stupid.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> A pump doesn’t build tissue.
> You cannot shape a muscle. A muscle grows, shrinks or stays the same size. It’s shape is predetermined.
> You cannot do toning or defining exercises.
> Definition comes from being lean.


You sir are an absolute wanker.
The PUMP is what builds your muscle it is your blood flow which carries the protein, oxygen, nutrients and much more to repair the muscle that you worked on and allow it grow.
You do weights everyday to shape your muscle you tosser .. a muscle shape isn't predetermined, it is made up of water and protein which is carried there by your blood .. the pump you feel which is also controlled by your diet. Your movements is what predetermines the shape of your muscle, you do bench to shape your chest .. it isn't predetermined.
Definition comes from exertion through a combined measure of diet and exercise.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> You sir are an absolute wanker.
> The PUMP is what builds your muscle it is your blood flow which carries the protein, oxygen, nutrients and much more to repair the muscle that you worked on and allow it grow.
> You do weights everyday to shape your muscle you tosser .. a muscle shape isn't predetermined, it is made up of water and protein which is carried there by your blood .. the pump you feel which is also controlled by your diet. Your movements is what predetermines the shape of your muscle, you do bench to shape your chest .. it isn't predetermined.
> Definition comes from exertion through a combined measure of diet and exercise.


I'm pretty sure that mechanical tension is widely accepted as the main driver of muscle hypertrophy.

The pump is great and all, but if you're not progressively lifting heavier loads over time, and instead did 1,000's of reps at light weight, you'd end up nowhere near as big as you could be, and have unnecessary really, really, really long workouts yielding subpar results.


----------



## The Phoenix (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> You sir are an absolute wanker.
> The PUMP is what builds your muscle it is your blood flow which carries the protein, oxygen, nutrients and much more to repair the muscle that you worked on and allow it grow.
> You do weights everyday to shape your muscle you tosser .. a muscle shape isn't predetermined, it is made up of water and protein which is carried there by your blood .. the pump you feel which is also controlled by your diet. Your movements is what predetermines the shape of your muscle, you do bench to shape your chest .. it isn't predetermined.
> Definition comes from exertion through a combined measure of diet and exercise.



Please let's not hijack this young man's thread with to and fro jabs to one another.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> Ive done 1,000's of Thrusters, they will NOT build your legs maximally, or even efficiently. You're limited by your ability to press the barbell overhead, which is a lot less weight than your legs can handle, and your arms will tire out well before your legs will. No one has ever failed a thruster on the squat portion. Not even in the same league as squats or many other leg specific exercises for growth and development, for legs OR shoulders.
> 
> Same with the bear complex. You're limited in weight to what you can put overhead. And it's so many movements within that complex, you don't efficiently train anything except your cardiovascular endurance and/or lactic threshold.
> 
> I would never put either in a weight training program, especially for a beginner. You know how much time would be wasted just learning to clean the barbell properly?


The kid is a string bean .. he will find it very difficult to produce much muscle unless he trains and diets properly.

He has difficulties doing 2 pullups at 52kgs .. Thrusters is a great movement for front squat to overhead press .. it won't build big quads, nor shoulders .. but will build the strength for him to do more pullups. Chances are he also has difficulties doing shoulder press .. the Thruster will help him build up to a decent weight with the extra push from the squat. (he will build strength through endurance). Many people don't like thrusters, but they are a great movement.

Bear complex isn't limited by weight, it is limited by your strength .. I've seen people do bear complex with 100kg .. clean, front squat into push press (with help from the front squat), rear squat into rear shoulder press (again helps build upper strength using the squat) to front shoulders to the ground .. it is a movement that will give him an overall ability to build strength. Sure is using a lot of leg movement and yeah, endurance is intentional.

The kid may not be able to build a massive body .. but he can look good trying.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> The kid is a string bean .. he will find it very difficult to produce much muscle unless he trains and diets properly.
> 
> He has difficulties doing 2 pullups at 52kgs .. Thrusters is a great movement for front squat to overhead press .. it won't build big quads, nor shoulders .. but will build the strength for him to do more pullups. Chances are he also has difficulties doing shoulder press .. the Thruster will help him build up to a decent weight with the extra push from the squat. (he will build strength through endurance). Many people don't like thrusters, but they are a great movement.
> 
> ...


What's the very first part of a Thruster? It's a full squat clean from the floor for those who don't know. It's a very technical movement to do properly, and it's completely unnecessary for most people, ESPECIALLY a beginner to weight training. That movement is in the discussion for the most poor choice possible for a beginner.

And you say the Bear Complex isn't limited by weight, it's by strength. That's just word play by you. Like i said, that movement is limited in weight by your overhead strength, which is FAR less than leg strength. Plus, it's also limited by conditioning if you use a lighter weight. At that point, it's cardio with weights. Again, a very poor choice for optimal muscle building and for a beginner.

I have extensive history with both. And I wouldn't even waste a second of thought thinking about them for muscle gain.

You know what's 100x better than Thrusters? Do some sets of presses, do some sets of front squats. Use the appropriate weight for each movement independently, and you don't have conditioning as a limiting factor either. Simple, and better. Same with the bear complex. Break it up into each movement. Keep your cardio separate from weight training.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> What's the very first part of a Thruster? It's a full squat clean from the floor for those who don't know. It's a very technical movement to do properly, and it's completely unnecessary for most people, ESPECIALLY a beginner to weight training. That movement is in the discussion for the most poor choice possible for a beginner.


One of the first movements you learn when starting CrossFit is the clean from the floor .. pretty basic movement, he can practice with a broom stick - I'm sure you would have if you done learnt how to clean.

The kid is 52kg, a 8kg bar and 5kg either side is maybe his limit .. but have seen 50kg women do 60kg cleans .. but they have practiced.

Every movement needs work .. the kid has a dip bar, doesn't mean he is doing them correctly. The kid can learn .. he can pop over to Youtube and learn how to clean or do a Thruster on his phone.

He was probably looking up floor press .. great movement, but doesn't mean he will be able to increment the weight anytime soon. So I guess he has options of either increasing reps to build strength or combine that movement with others in an attempt to build enough strength to increment the weight.

Sure, Crossfit isn't bodybuilding but many of those dudes / women are pretty strong and achieve great outcomes .. yet, most of them have very little muscle growth. Yeah, he will have to go pyramid weight .. but first I'd say he needs to build strength.

Todays bodybuilding isn't only traditional movements .. it's overall movement, sure endurance, strength, good form .. but if you want him to do squats to build a solid foundation .. when the kid is back being 59kg he will more than likely be doing squats with the same weight, same movement .. probably has knees flapping all over the place and no development at all.

If you aren't a fan of front squats .. fair enough, they are a great movement .. add a push press, the kid builds strength enough to do more pullups. Go figure.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

By the way ... he doesn't have to clean from the floor, he has a squat rack ... he can just put the bar on his shoulders, do a front squat into push press then re-rack the bar.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> One of the first movements you learn when starting CrossFit is the clean from the floor .. pretty basic movement, he can practice with a broom stick - I'm sure you would have if you done learnt how to clean.


Only if you go to a shit box. No decent coach would do this. I did CF for 7 years, 4 competitively, so I can speak confidently on this.

Plus, he's not asking about crossfit.

Look, I love CF, but he's not asking about CF.... Or swimming, or marathon running, or gymnastics, etc...



MrBafner said:


> The kid is 52kg, a 8kg bar and 5kg either side is maybe his limit .. but have seen 50kg women do 60kg cleans .. but they have practiced.



But more often than not, by far, the general pop class at a CF box do them incredibly poorly. You know this, don't pretend for a second that you don't. You can't lie to me, I've seen them.


MrBafner said:


> Every movement needs work .. the kid has a dip bar, doesn't mean he is doing them correctly. The kid can learn .. he can pop over to Youtube and learn how to clean or do a Thruster on his phone.



Dips are so much easier to learn that Thrusters. There's a reason Oly lifters spend years working on technique before loading the bar. Again, you know this, don't lie.


MrBafner said:


> He was probably looking up floor press .. great movement, but doesn't mean he will be able to increment the weight anytime soon. So I guess he has options of either increasing reps to build strength or combine that movement with others in an attempt to build enough strength to increment the weight.


So if he can't learn one simple movement properly, you think it's appropriate to combine it with several other movements in a complex so it looks like a COMPLETE shit show? Really?


MrBafner said:


> Sure, Crossfit isn't bodybuilding but many of those dudes / women are pretty strong and achieve great outcomes .. yet, most of them have very little muscle growth. Yeah, he will have to go pyramid weight .. but first I'd say he needs to build strength.



Exactly, CF will only build up so much strength and muscle size. That's why there's periodization within it now. There's dedicated strength and hypertrophy blocks, where things like 5x5 with progressive overload are very common.


MrBafner said:


> Todays bodybuilding isn't only traditional movements .. it's overall movement, sure endurance, strength, good form .. but if you want him to do squats to build a solid foundation .. when the kid is back being 59kg he will move than likely be doing squats with the same weight, same movement .. probably has knees flapping all over the place and no development at all.


Easier by far to teach and perform a squat than it is a thruster. He'd either get hurt or quit if he trained your way.


MrBafner said:


> If you aren't a fan of front squats .. fair enough, they are a great movement .. add a push press, the kid builds strength enough to do more pullups. Go figure.


We'll use me as an example. I can do a 255 lb Thruster from the floor. I can front squat 360 lbs. I can clean 310. A thruster won't do jack shit for my legs. Totally limited by shoulder strength. But if I did SEPARARE front squats and push presses, I'd get stronger in BOTH, and my thruster would go up.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> Only if you go to a shit box. No decent coach would do this. I did CF for 7 years, 4 competitively, so I can speak confidently on this.
> 
> Plus, he's not asking about crossfit.
> 
> ...


Go on, now you be a dick ... never once said a thruster will build muscle .. it will however help tone. It will however help the kid build upper body strength.

He doesn't have to clean, he has a squat rack .. he can front squat by itself and build muscle .. sure , no doubt about it.

If you think front squats don't build muscle ... then fuck dude.

Thrusters at HIS weight won't build muscle but will build strength.

I know you've done crossfit, is why I mentioned it. But it isn't about crossfit .. is about the kid getting strong enough to more in his workout. It is a well known crossfit movement.

As for dips, so many people have popped shoulders because they do them incorrectly. Is why I recommended diamond push-ups one day, dips the other.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> By the way ... he doesn't have to clean from the floor, he has a squat rack ... he can just put the bar on his shoulders, do a front squat into push press then re-rack the bar.


Most people don't even have the ability to do a proper front rack, another problem with a thruster for a beginner.


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## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

No need to keep spinning around this revolving door. 

@Soulmam2477 , there's a good reason you'll never see Thrusters or Bear Complexes in any beginner strength training program. They're entire inappropriate and inferior. 

Stick to basic movements in proper rep ranges, progress over time in both weight and form, and you'll make tremendous progress. 

Best of luck!!!


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> Most people don't even have the ability to do a proper front rack, another problem with a thruster for a begbeginner


Google's very first thing on thrusters ... but you're the expert right?

"hrusters are deemed to be one of the most beneficial exercises since they're a full-body movement that's useful in daily life. Thrusters help *improve coordination, muscular endurance, and balance*. They help you gain both upper and lower body strength by working the quadriceps, glutes, and shoulders."










						How to Do Thrusters: Technique, Benefits, and Common Mistakes
					

The thruster is a well-known compound exercise that’s part of the CrossFit workout program. It's a combination of a front squat and an overhead press. We'll give you step-by-step instructions on how to do thrusters, as well as demonstrations and guidelines for how to modify them and get the most...




					www.healthline.com


----------



## Yano (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> "Look, I love CF"


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

The kid needs to learn every movement.. there is no basics.

Just squat mate ... don't worry about telling him about knees, feet and pelvis.

Every movement has difficulties... pretty sure people corrected you.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Google's very first thing on thrusters ... but you're the expert right?
> 
> "hrusters are deemed to be one of the most beneficial exercises since they're a full-body movement that's useful in daily life. Thrusters help *improve coordination, muscular endurance, and balance*. They help you gain both upper and lower body strength by working the quadriceps, glutes, and shoulders."
> 
> ...


But still an incredibly poor choice for a beginner and most people in general. 

Let's break it down for you. Which is better... 

1. 10 reps of Thrusters at 95 lbs, because that's the limit his shoulders can handle. Or, 

2. 10 reps of shoulder presses at 95lbs, and 10 front squats at 185, because everyone's legs are stronger. Ballpark numbers, just an example. 

And that's assuming he can even hold a front rack, or else his Thrusters will be trash, and he'll have to use even less weight, or can't do them at all. 

Plus the front squats and presses separately are safer. 

Seems obvious to me. 

There's a reason nobody, not even crossfitters, use Thrusters for strength or size. That exercise is done to express their METABOLIC CONDITIONING, not to build anything.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

You obviously missed the part where I said the kid probably does his 8kg bar with 5kg either side?

Let's break down a squat .. you assume he is lifting the bar bar with 40kg with good form.

Whereas hiis back is arched, bent over and bird pecking while he is just moving his knees 4 inches and no where what is required.

The kid is training at home, more than likely using social media and YouTube to learn.

He has to learn, doesn't matter what movement.


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## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

You say Thrusters don't build strength ... yet thousands of people do the movement just for that purpose.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> You obviously missed the part where I said the kid probably does his 8kg bat with 5kg either side?
> 
> Let's break down a squat .. you assume he is lifting the bar bar with 40kg with good form.
> 
> ...


And it's better and easier to learn a single movement before a complex coordinated exercise with multiple movement patterns within it. 

If he front squats poorly, as in your example, how in the hell do you think his thruster will look? It'll look like an injury waiting to happen. 

That's plain foolish and irresponsible.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> You say Thrusters don't build strength ... yet thousands of people do the movement just for that purpose.


Not as optimally as separate front squats and presses with appropriate weight.

You can walk from NY to California. You'll get there, but it's not even close to being the best choice.

Same thing here.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

You also like to assume he'll have poor form on a squat. But yet you assume he'll be able to front rack, when many can't. You can't have it both ways.


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## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

Same people can do 1000s of squats every week and gain no size nor strength.

This kid will benefit from thrusters in more ways than just doing a the single movement. 

Would help if he told the weight he uses ... but all we get is he can't do 2 pull ups.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Same people can do 1000s of squats every week and gain no size nor strength.


So then how will they gain size and strength with Thrusters, which require less weight to be used? They can't, they won't. 


MrBafner said:


> This kid will benefit from thrusters in more ways than just doing a the single movement.


But not as much as doing the movements separately. We don't do a lunge curl press flyes combo for a reason either.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> You also like to assume he'll have poor form on a squat. But yet you assume he'll be able to front rack, when many can't. You can't have it both wayways


No I'm saying you are assuming he is squatting correctly.

Whereas most beginners bird pecking, no depth, bent over, bar on the back poorly .. knees in, all kinds of bad.


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## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

Ok .. 52kg kid .... do front squats followed by push press.

Same shit, just take longer time to achieve the same thing.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> No I'm saying you are assuming he is squatting correctly.
> 
> Whereas most beginners bird pecking, no depth, bent over, bar on the back poorly .. knees in, all kinds of bad.


Then he can't possibly do a thruster properly either, because it's much more complex. And there are other potential issues there if we're making assumptions. Can he hold a front rack? Does he have the necessary shoulder mobility to go straight up overhead?


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Ok .. 52kg kid .... do front squats followed by push press.
> 
> Same shit, just take longer time to achieve the same thing.


I think you mean... Little bit longer to make vastly greater progress. Also known as not wasting your time.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

Ok, I'm officially out now. I have better things to do.  🤣


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

Not at all... he can achieve the same thing doing thrusters.

You just have doubts that he can


----------



## Test_subject (Jan 27, 2022)

This thread is 95% bickering and 5% good advice. 

Well done lads.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

Next you will say 24kg wallballs don't build endurance or strength.

Great to build depth ... similar movement to thrusters but without the bar.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Next you will say 24kg wallballs don't build endurance or strength.
> 
> Great to build depth ... similar movement to thrusters but without the bar.


----------



## Test_subject (Jan 27, 2022)

I don’t want to get in on the bickering, but thrusters are objectively garbage for hypertrophy.

Doing front squats and OHP separately and with the proper weights for the demands of the movement will produce better results 100% of the time.

That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.  I can OHP over 100lbs less than I can front squat. Why would I want to front squat 100+ lbs less just to do a thruster?


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## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

When did anyone say it wil lbuild muscle?

It will help the kid build strength so he can build muscle with other movements.

Maybe he might be better thrusting some chicken in his mouth and put on some size.

If you don't like thrusters   ... go join the wanker that says you can't shape a muscle or train for definition.


----------



## Test_subject (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> When did anyone say it wil lbuild muscle?
> 
> It will help the kid build strength so he can build muscle with other movements.
> 
> ...


Why do you have this weird hard on for thrusters?

Are you Dave Castro by chance?

And you can’t train “for definition.”  You can get leaner, or make the muscle bigger, but both methods are just making the muscle more visible through skin and adipose tissue. You aren’t “defining” the muscle — you’re increasing the visibility of it.

This is pretty basic stuff.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 27, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Why do you have this weird hard on for thrusters?
> 
> Are you Dave Castro by chance?
> 
> ...


Exactly ... isn't that what training is, working muscles and dieting? That's how I train every day.

No I'm not Dave Castro but did Crossfit for 5 years. Loved going to different boxes and train with different coaches.

Yeah, I do appreciate hard work ... thrusters are a great compound movemen for all levels, not for everyone obviously.


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 27, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> This thread is 95% bickering and 5% good advice.
> 
> Well done lads.


I feel partly responsible but I swear to god I was trying to be helpful 😂


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## RiR0 (Jan 27, 2022)

This came up on google. Toning workout.. guess we’re all wrong.


----------



## Test_subject (Jan 27, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> This came up on google. Toning workout.. guess we’re all wrong.


That deadlift + upright row is a perfect example of why combo exercises are fucking stupid.

The loading requirements of those two exercises are just _slightly_ different…

If you can upright row what you deadlift then tell me your shoulder training secrets because you probably have delts like Death Stars.


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## RiR0 (Jan 27, 2022)

I’m just saying guys look how toned she is


----------



## Soulmam2477 (Jan 27, 2022)

Lol


----------



## Soulmam2477 (Jan 27, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> For starters he is after a full body workout using his equipment that he hasn't listed, nor the weight he uses. I assume he doesn't have much weight .. saying that a 52kg dude with a bar having maybe 10kg each side isn't going to produce growth or strength. Doing thrusters he is doing front squats and shoulders at the same time .. he will achieve a lot more definition in his legs than trying for size.
> 
> Bear complex after thrusters means his legs are probably fatigued and with a small weight, I would consider this an overall workout that could induce a small amount of growth.
> 
> As for diamond pushups instead of dips ... chances are he is doing dips wrong and targeting the wrong muscle.  Diamond pushups will produce a better pump and he won't fatigue during pullups, but will be a great warmup to be ready for bear complex.



I am not broke u can buy weights


----------



## Soulmam2477 (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> Any reason you don't have a bench, or can't buy one?



My dad said no and I finish work at 10pm and to keep me on track I wanna use my home equipment


----------



## Soulmam2477 (Jan 27, 2022)

I have changed my workout based on my brothers advice.

Workout A


Squats
Romanian deadlift
Dips
Barbell bent over row
Overhead press
Bicep curls
Press ups

Workout B


Lunges
Dips
Pull ups
Overhead press
press ups
Bicep curl
2/3 sets of 8-10 reps 
Because I cannot do pull-ups only two 3  going all out  the amount of effort it takes to do negative pull-ups is crazy so I am now doing them at the end of my workout so my other exercises do not suffer. Each workout I am  adding more weight to the bar and doing more reps better form dip.


----------



## CJ (Jan 27, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> I have changed my workout based on my brothers advice.
> 
> Workout A
> 
> ...


Here's how to scale your Pullups... 

Set a barbell in your rack, sit underneath it, feet on the floor, and do a pullup to the barbell. 

They'll be easier, because some of your weight is supported on the ground. If you need a little extra assistance, you can use your legs to assist.


----------



## Test_subject (Jan 27, 2022)

CJ said:


> Here's how to scale your Pullups...
> 
> Set a barbell in your rack, sit underneath it, feet on the floor, and do a pullup to the barbell.
> 
> They'll be easier, because some of your weight is supported on the ground. If you need a little extra assistance, you can use your legs to assist.


My CrossFit is going to show, here, but wrapping a band around the bar and standing in the loop works well, as well.

You can use progressively lighter bands until you do them solo.


----------



## MrBafner (Jan 28, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> You sir are an absolute wanker.
> The PUMP is what builds your muscle it is your blood flow which carries the protein, oxygen, nutrients and much more to repair the muscle that you worked on and allow it grow.
> You do weights everyday to shape your muscle you tosser .. a muscle shape isn't predetermined, it is made up of water and protein which is carried there by your blood .. the pump you feel which is also controlled by your diet. Your movements is what predetermines the shape of your muscle, you do bench to shape your chest .. it isn't predetermined.
> Definition comes from exertion through a combined measure of diet and exercise.



Lost absolutely all respect from you fuckers and what I said in this statement I fully stand behind.
You can all get fucked and won't contribute at all from this point on.




RiR0 said:


> I’m just saying guys look how toned she is



You seriously a knob mate .. every time you exert to burn calories in the gym,, reduce water retention, rest to reduce inflammation... have duruietcs, cocaine or all kinds of other shit can contribute to defining muscles.
Isn't just sucking on the broiled chicken Or eating broccoli with a few spices.

See you bunch of cocks later


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 28, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Lost absolutely all respect from you fuckers and what I said in this statement I fully stand behind.
> You can all get fucked and won't contribute at all from this point on.
> 
> 
> ...


At this point I’m convinced you’re legally retarded. 
It would be irresponsible of me to converse with you any longer


----------



## Soulmam2477 (Jan 28, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Lost absolutely all respect from you fuckers and what I said in this statement I fully stand behind.
> You can all get fucked and won't contribute at all from this point on.
> 
> 
> ...



Calm down 🤣 the internet is not real life


----------



## RiR0 (Jan 28, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> Calm down 🤣 the internet is not real life


I’m still confused by the broiled chicken and broccoli comment. I’ve literally dieted and gotten lean on nothing but protein shakes and junk food.


----------



## Test_subject (Jan 28, 2022)

MrBafner said:


> Lost absolutely all respect from you fuckers and what I said in this statement I fully stand behind.
> You can all get fucked and won't contribute at all from this point on.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Soulmam2477 (Jan 29, 2022)

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLLxtgrj/

Me working out


----------



## CJ (Jan 29, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLLxtgrj/
> 
> Me working out


I'd watch, but I'm not downloading Tik Tok.  😕


----------



## TODAY (Jan 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> I'd watch, but I'm not downloading Tik Tok.  😕


90% chance that there's a male butthole featured in that video.


----------



## The Phoenix (Jan 29, 2022)

Soulmam2477 said:


> https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLLxtgrj/
> 
> Me working out


nice night to work out.  like the moon behind the clouds....


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## CJ (Jan 29, 2022)

TODAY said:


> 90% chance that there's a male butthole featured in that video.


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## The Phoenix (Jan 29, 2022)

CJ said:


> I'd watch, but I'm not downloading Tik Tok.  😕


you don't need tiktok account.  you can watch it on laptop instead of phone.


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## The Phoenix (Jan 29, 2022)

TODAY said:


> 90% chance that there's a male butthole featured in that video.


I can't remember if you are the one into tranny's, dudes or all three?  LOL  jk


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## TODAY (Jan 29, 2022)

The Phoenix said:


> I can't remember if you are the one into tranny's, dudes or all three?  LOL  jk


Fuck you and your wildly uninformed assumptions about my sexuality.















I'm into farm animals.


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## RiR0 (Jan 29, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Fuck you and your wildly uninformed assumptions about my sexuality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fat bitches need love too


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## The Phoenix (Jan 29, 2022)

so do skeletons...the one in my armoir.


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