# Cardio on empty stomach yes or no



## pilgrim (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm hearing its a myth but this is we're I get my advice. Thanks folks.


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## Oldebull (Jun 20, 2014)

1) For fat loss or conditioning purposes?
2) In theory, cardio on an empty stomach (upon waking) burns more fat. This is a tried and proven method by many.
3) Some will argue that burning calories burns calories and it doesn't matter when, as long as it is done.
4) Consistency and effort is more important than timing.


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## Spongy (Jun 20, 2014)

My clients do LISS fasted and HIIT fed.  I find fasted LISS works best for fat loss while.maintaining mass.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 20, 2014)

Oldebull said:


> 1) For fat loss or conditioning purposes?
> 2) In theory, cardio on an empty stomach (upon waking) burns more fat. This is a tried and proven method by many.
> 3) Some will argue that burning calories burns calories and it doesn't matter when, as long as it is done.
> 4) Consistency and effort is more important than timing.



Unfortunately the theory in #2 doesn't exactly pan out in reality. There have been multiple studies showing that cardio in a fed state does not affect fatty acids being used as a fuel substrate in trained individuals. For beginners, when they do cardio in a fed state it can change what's being used as fuel but once you begin to work out consistently the differences become negligible.


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## gymrat827 (Jun 20, 2014)

which is why i also do cardio after lifting.  If im just trying to keep shape its 15min.  if im trying to burn fat its like 40-45min.  

Lifting for 45-50m before hand will burn up everything and by the time you make it to the cardio you should be mostly using fat as fuel.  

I sometimes sip 5g BCAA during this time to make sure fat is the primary source of fuel.  Do not begin to drink it til your lifting period is over with.


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## DF (Jun 20, 2014)

Fasted cardio works for me, but I'm also cutting carbs & limiting cals.


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## jennerrator (Jun 20, 2014)

Doesn't really matter...you want to see results do HIIT! I do all my cardio after I have eaten all day pretty much and with HIIT...not possible to put fat on  (well, for me anyway)


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## TheLupinator (Jun 20, 2014)

I don't do anything fasted... Also like Jen Jen I prefer HIIT


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## DF (Jun 20, 2014)

Effects of fed- versus fasted-state aerobic training during Ramadan on body composition and some metabolic parameters in physically active men.

Trabelsi K1, el Abed K, Stannard SR, Jammoussi K, Zeghal KM, Hakim A.


Author information 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248495


Abstract


The aim of this study was to evaluate the effects of aerobic training in a fasted versus a fed state during Ramadan on body composition and metabolic parameters in physically active men. Nineteen men were allocated to 2 groups: 10 practicing aerobic training in a fasted state (FAST) and 9 training in an acutely fed state (FED) during Ramadan. All subjects visited the laboratory for a total of 4 sessions on the following occasions: 3 days before Ramadan (Bef-R), the 15th day of Ramadan; the 29th day of Ramadan (End-R), and 21 days after Ramadan. During each session, subjects underwent anthropometric measurement, completed a dietary questionnaire, and provided fasting blood and urine samples. Body weight decreased in FAST and FED by 1.9% (p<.001) and 2.6% (p=.046), respectively. Body fat percentage decreased only in FAST by 6.2% (p=.016). FAST experienced an increase in the following parameters from Bef-R to End-R: urine specific gravity (0.64%, p=.012), urea (8.7%, p<.001), creatinine (7.5%, p<.001), uric acid (12.7%, p<.001), sodium (1.9%, p=.003), chloride (2.6%, p<.001), and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (27.3%, p<.001). Of these parameters, only creatinine increased (5.8%, p=.004) in FED. Creatinine clearance values of FAST decreased by 8.9% (p<.001) and by 7.6% in FED (p=.01) from Bef-R to End-R. The authors conclude that aerobic training in a fasted state lowers body weight and body fat percentage. In contrast, fed aerobic training decreases only body weight. In addition, Ramadan fasting induced change in some metabolic parameters in FAST, but these changes were absent in FED.


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## jennerrator (Jun 20, 2014)

blah blah blah blah..............................LOL 

I'll stick to what I do


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## stonetag (Jun 20, 2014)

What is this Cardio you guy's mention all the time?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 20, 2014)

DF, that study isnt really applicable to us. Ramadan is one of the most extreme forms of fasting. No food and no fluids, not even water, from sunup to sundown. It's no wonder they lost more fat since most practicing Muslims lose body fat and weight during this time. Furthermore it doesn't mention how body fat was measured...my guess is BIA which is notoriously inaccurate. Lastly, it relies on a dietary questionnaire. We all know how accurate ppl's perception of their food intake is lol. 

Here's a link to one of the greatest brains in the business. At he bottom you'll see links to parts 2 and 3 of the article. Worthwhile read and he looks at all the evidence. 

http://alanaragon.com/myths-under-the-microscope-the-fat-burning-zone-fasted-cardio.html


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 20, 2014)

stonetag said:


> What is this Cardio you guy's mention all the time?



Sex...and lots of it


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## FreeBirdSam (Jun 20, 2014)

subscribed to ask what all these acronyms mean..  lol.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 20, 2014)

FreeBirdSam said:


> subscribed to ask what all these acronyms mean..  lol.



SEX: (verb/noun) pronounced /seks/ 

Noun: sexual activity

Verb: to out your dick inside a mouth, vagina, ass, or peanut butter fukk sock, while simultaneously thrusting in and out with the hips and posterior chain muscles. Usually performed until you ejaculate. If cut off before ejaculation occurs it can be referred to as blue balls


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## #TheMatrix (Jun 20, 2014)

Maybe sam ment liss and hiit?


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## Bro Bundy (Jun 20, 2014)

i cant do anything fasted..fat loss is all about how u eat ..I dont do cardio..I do tren hahaha


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 20, 2014)

#TheMatrix said:


> Maybe sam ment liss and hiit?



Oh, makes sense lol

LISS: low intensity steady state 
HIIT: high intensity interval training


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## gymrat827 (Jun 20, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> SEX: (verb/noun) pronounced /seks/
> 
> Noun: sexual activity
> 
> Verb: to out your dick inside a mouth, vagina, ass, *or peanut butter fukk sock*, while simultaneously thrusting in and out with the hips and posterior chain muscles. Usually performed until you ejaculate. If cut off before ejaculation occurs it can be referred to as blue balls




are you calling out Bundy here??  or DF??  curious?


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## Bro Bundy (Jun 20, 2014)

gymrat827 said:


> are you calling out Bundy here??  or DF??  curious?



i always make sure i ejaculate


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## #TheMatrix (Jun 20, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> i cant do anything fasted..fat loss is all about how u eat ..I dont do cardio..I do tren hahaha



I believe secks with milfs counts as cardio.


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## Bro Bundy (Jun 20, 2014)

#TheMatrix said:


> I believe secks with milfs counts as cardio.



after a hour of fukkin yup its cardio


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## gymrat827 (Jun 20, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> i always make sure i ejaculate



thats the problem.......we may be stuck with a bunch of you lil fukers in a few yrs.  lol


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 20, 2014)

gymrat827 said:


> are you calling out Bundy here??  or DF??  curious?



Not calling anybody out except for maybe Dr. Tiller lol. Tried to make a funny


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## DarksideSix (Jun 20, 2014)




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## Bro Bundy (Jun 20, 2014)

gymrat827 said:


> thats the problem.......we may be stuck with a bunch of you lil fukers in a few yrs.  lol



ill make sure if i ever have kids for them to sign up to this site and go fukkin crazy like their old man once did


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## gymrat827 (Jun 20, 2014)

Brother Bundy said:


> ill make sure if i ever have kids for them to sign up to this site and go fukkin crazy like their old man once did



Cuz that's what the world needs.  More crazy fukin Russians on boatloads of tren.  


Spread ur seed BB


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## Jada (Jun 21, 2014)

I say yes on empty stomach,  that shit works


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## stonetag (Jun 21, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Sex...and lots of it


Well, that explains why I don't know what it is.....I suppose hand sex doesn't count?


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## ajdonutz (Jun 21, 2014)

I do my cardio first thing AM fasted, right after a small cup of coffee, and once I get going I consume a scoop of bcaas throughout. Works well for me. I do a 30 min fasted outside terrain AM fast walk. (When I'm doing cardio, typically only final weeks before comp lol)


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## stonetag (Jun 21, 2014)

ajordana said:


> I do my cardio first thing AM fasted, right after a small cup of coffee, and once I get going I consume a scoop of bcaas throughout. Works well for me. I do a 30 min fasted outside terrain AM fast walk. (When I'm doing cardio, typically only final weeks before comp lol)


Where did you get the tank bro? kind of like it.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 21, 2014)

stonetag said:


> Well, that explains why I don't know what it is.....I suppose hand sex doesn't count?



Oh it certainly does Stone. LISS hand sex would be light stroking while HIIT hand sex would be more like furiously jerking it like your life depended on it. Try both and see which you prefer


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## NbleSavage (Jun 21, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> DF, that study isnt really applicable to us. Ramadan is one of the most extreme forms of fasting. No food and no fluids, not even water, from sunup to sundown. It's no wonder they lost more fat since most practicing Muslims lose body fat and weight during this time. Furthermore it doesn't mention how body fat was measured...my guess is BIA which is notoriously inaccurate. Lastly, it relies on a dietary questionnaire. We all know how accurate ppl's perception of their food intake is lol.
> 
> Here's a link to one of the greatest brains in the business. At he bottom you'll see links to parts 2 and 3 of the article. Worthwhile read and he looks at all the evidence.
> 
> http://alanaragon.com/myths-under-the-microscope-the-fat-burning-zone-fasted-cardio.html



Great read, Doc! I took away:

* HIIT is more efficient at fat burning than LISS, but potentially more risky from a recovery standpoint (eg. more likely to interfere with your resistance training) therefore do whichever your body tolerates better

* Fasted cardio for enhanced fat burning is a myth

Did I miss anything?


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## pilgrim (Jun 22, 2014)

Thanks for the good and amusing answers really appreciate


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jun 23, 2014)

NbleSavage said:


> Great read, Doc! I took away:
> 
> * HIIT is more efficient at fat burning than LISS, but potentially more risky from a recovery standpoint (eg. more likely to interfere with your resistance training) therefore do whichever your body tolerates better
> 
> ...



Aragon's research states the HIIT is just as good, and possibly better, for fat oxidation. 

Yes HIIT, when too much is done, can adversely effect your weight training but there's good evidence showing LISS can interfere with strength as well...not too sure about size but I'll look Into it more when I have the time. 

Fasted cardio for fat burning is indeed a myth...unless you're only looking at the small picture (during the cardio). 24hr fat oxidation is roughly equivalent or better with HIIT. 

The ironic part is that the research backing fasted cardio was done up to about 50% of VO2 max. The few studies done showed carbs negatively impact fat oxidation during the lLISS cardio but other studies state max fat oxidation occurs around 63% of VO2 max. Studies show that at 65-75% of VO2 max, carbs don't affect fat oxidation...which just so happens to be closer to the 63% where peak fat oxidation occurs. 

In the end it boils down to personal preference and which one you can consistently do. If it's fasted cardio so be it, just do it regularly and for longer amount of time. If it's HIIT then do that for a shorter amount of time. If you want a slight edge for burning fat while preserving or possibly gaining some slight lbm then do HIIT.


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## Bro Bundy (Jun 23, 2014)

i never did much cardio or fasted ...bf% is all diet and genetics


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## Cooper (Jun 25, 2014)

I really do not like cardio on an empty stomach. I will eat barely any oatmeal and then get on the bike for an hour. I have found that doing this allows me to push myself a lot harder than I would otherwise. I really dislike doing cardio on an empty stomach – cannot get myself going.


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