# Looking to replace Tren in my cycle



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

1st post here, but I've been data collecting from the forums for about a year.

I'm currently 40 and planning my 3rd cycle. I'm 6' 2" 230 with an athletic build. I did my 1st ever cycle this year with the goal of dumping the dad bod (4 kids and 15 years of no excercise) and getting back into working out regularly.

1st Cycle: 
400mg Test E weekly for 8 weeks 
 100mg Anavar daily (2, 50mg doses daily) 8 weeks
I saw good strength gains along with superb stamina and healing time. Size didnt increase tremendously, but the dad gut went away. After 6 weeks I had swelling in my ankles and stopped the cycle. I'm assuming the swelling was due to high anavar dosage. PCT for 2 weeks.

2nd cycle: 12 weeks later
500 MG test E weekly 14 weeks 
250 MG Tren E weekly 14 weeks
20 MG Anavar daily (2, 10 MG doses) 14 weeks 
Cycle Support 4 caps daily for 14 weeks
P5P 1 cap daily for 14 weeks
PCT 1 tab daily for 3 weeks starting week 16.

The 1st 8 weeks of this cycle were crazy. I gained mass and strength and had to kill myself in the gym just to make myself sore. At 8 weeks my appetite dropped to 0. I literally had to force myself to eat, and I was lucky to get in 2000 calories a day. The good news here is I maintained all of the mass that gained the 1st 8 weeks, but I got super cut weeks 9-12. I had a six pack for the 1st time in 15 years!!! At week 12 my urine turned dark and stayed that way regardless of how much water and electrolytes I drank. This spooked me, and I shut down the cycle at 12 weeks.

I'm planning my next cycle for early 2023, and I'm looking to replace the Tren. My biggest gripe about it is the inability to do any cardio. I don't do cardio at the gym, but I play soccer, basketball, or softball once or twice a week throught the year. When the Tren kicked in I couldn't run 40 yards without feeling like I was going to die. 

My priorities in order are:
1) gain strength 
2) remain vascular
3) gain mass

Is there another option out there to use with test E and Anavar other than Tren that I can still do some cardio with?


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## snake (Oct 4, 2022)

First post gear talk.


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## TODAY (Oct 4, 2022)

Post a detailed breakdown of your diet and training.


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## MisterSuperGod (Oct 4, 2022)

Don't train to get sore. If you hit your thumb with a hammer and it isn't sore do you hit it harder?

Not sure where i was going with that analogy. i'm sitting on the can and felt a bit of whimsy for a moment there between pushes, but anyway DOMS doesn't mean a workout is better than a workout that doesn't give you DOMS.

Tren metabolites can cause the urine to be darker, but good call to pull the plug and not ignore something that doesn't seem right.

Look into DHB. i've heard good things.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> 1st post here, but I've been data collecting from the forums for about a year.
> 
> I'm currently 40 and planning my 3rd cycle. I'm 6' 2" 230 with an athletic build. I did my 1st ever cycle this year with the goal of dumping the dad bod (4 kids and 15 years of no excercise) and getting back into working out regularly.
> 
> ...


If your goal is to gain strength and mass then you need to eat more. You don’t need “special” drugs. 

If you didn’t gain mass on 400 mg/week test but loss fat then it’s because you weren’t eating enough. You can’t create something out of nothing and you can’t build and reduce at the same time (you can, but not at low knowledge and low experience levels). 

Your training is likely a little messed up too. Post your routine and let’s have a look to trouble shoot it. I have a feeling based on what you already wrote that you’re focusing on a lot of unnecessary volume but not taking your lifts to failure. I can curl lightweight a million times and my biceps won’t necessarily grow. Or I can increase that weight and curl it until I can’t curl it anymore. That’s been proven to be more effective.


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## eazy (Oct 4, 2022)

please post a pic. thanks.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

MisterSuperGod said:


> Don't train to get sore. If you hit your thumb with a hammer and it isn't sore do you hit it harder?
> 
> Not sure where i was going with that analogy. i'm sitting on the can and felt a bit of whimsy for a moment there between pushes, but anyway DOMS doesn't mean a workout is better than a workout that doesn't give you DOMS.
> 
> ...


Awesome...thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some research.


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

You think you had edema from anavar? Do you think this sounds stupid when you read it back? 
If it doesn’t keep reading it until it does.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> If your goal is to gain strength and mass then you need to eat more. You don’t need “special” drugs.
> 
> If you didn’t gain mass on 400 mg/week test but loss fat then it’s because you weren’t eating enough. You can’t create something out of nothing and you can’t build and reduce at the same time (you can, but not at low knowledge and low experience levels).
> 
> Your training is likely a little messed up too. Post your routine and let’s have a look to trouble shoot it. I have a feeling based on what you already wrote that you’re focusing on a lot of unnecessary volume but not taking your lifts to failure. I can curl lightweight a million times and my biceps won’t necessarily grow. Or I can increase that weight and curl it until I can’t curl it anymore. That’s been proven to be more effective.


Thanks for the read and info. 

Diet: At the beginning of my last cycle my diet goals were 3500 Calories/day, 386 g carbs, 268 g protein and 97 g fat. Everything went very good. I shot up from 230 to 245 by week 5. However, at week 8 I completely lost my appetite and this continued until I stopped at week 12. I went from 245 back to 230, but I kept my muscle mass that I gained weeks 1-5 and just got extremely ripped. i also continued to gain strength during this time. I was only eating 2000-2500 calories a day by force feeding myself so my body melted the fat off to makeup for the caloric deficit. Does longterm use of Tren or Anavar cause appetite suppression? 

Workout: This one is definitely lacking. Keep in mind I have 4 kids that all play soccer on multiple teams. We have practice and games 6 days a week. I hit the gym 4 days a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday or Sunday for my 4th. 

Monday- Chest and Triceps - I swap up every 3 weeks, but I make sure I hit 4-5 exercises for each group 3 sets each for 12-15 reps. I try to push to failure by the 3rd rep of each excercise. 

Wednesday: Biceps, Back with Shoulders
Same methodology as above 

Friday- Legs 8 different exercises 3 sets for 12-15 reps each. 

Saturday/Sunday: Arms (Biceps and Triceps)

I'm not completely unhappy with my results so far. I just want to be able to breath if I have to run someone down in soccer.


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

Sounds like you’ve wasted 2 sets out of every exercise


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## Test_subject (Oct 4, 2022)

This may seem obvious but could you, and stop me if I sound crazy, just not run the tren?

If you’re losing weight on cycle more drugs won’t help; more food will.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Thanks for the read and info.
> 
> Diet: At the beginning of my last cycle my diet goals were 3500 Calories/day, 386 g carbs, 268 g protein and 97 g fat. Everything went very good. I shot up from 230 to 245 by week 5. However, at week 8 I completely lost my appetite and this continued until I stopped at week 12. I went from 245 back to 230, but I kept my muscle mass that I gained weeks 1-5 and just got extremely ripped. i also continued to gain strength during this time. I was only eating 2000-2500 calories a day by force feeding myself so my body melted the fat off to makeup for the caloric deficit. Does longterm use of Tren or Anavar cause appetite suppression?
> 
> ...


I’ve got 4 kids. Life is busy for everyone. You can use it as an excuse if you want. Or you can own that chaotic life and make time for everything and more. Prioritize.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> This may seem obvious but could you, and stop me if I sound crazy, just not run the tren?
> 
> If you’re losing weight on cycle more drugs won’t help; more food will.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold it right there. Bro, you’re crazy. But that might just be crazy enough to work.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You think you had edema from anavar? Do you think this sounds stupid when you read it back?
> If it doesn’t keep reading it until it does.


Possibly....there's mild hepatotoxicity with Anavar, and 100 mg per day is a high dose. Hepatotoxicity could potentially strain the kidneys and cause edema.


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Possibly....there's mild hepatotoxicity with Anavar, and 100 mg per day is a high dose. Hepatotoxicity could potentially strain the kidneys and cause edema.


So you have kidney issues before from before you took the var? Because if not no.
It’ll be worse on your cholesterol than your kidneys


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## Test_subject (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Hepatotoxicity could potentially strain the kidneys…


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> View attachment 29452


Apparently he thinks the var destroy his liver so bad it gave him hepatorenal syndrome


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So you have kidney issues before from before you took the var? Because if not no.
> It’ll be worse on your cholesterol than your kidneys


No, none at all. That doesn't change the fact that liver issues directly affect the kidneys. Liver = filter number 1, Kidneys = filter #2. If #1 doesn't do its job the kidneys then have to deal with larger more toxic molecules.


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## cavorite (Oct 4, 2022)

Take it easy on yourself, man. Seeing as you've had to abort both cycles early, I wouldn't be looking to add more compounds.


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> I agree, but the results from my 2nd cycle dwarfed the
> 
> No, none at all. That doesn't change the fact that liver issues directly affect the kidneys. Liver = filter number 1, Kidneys = filter #2. If #1 doesn't do its job the kidneys then have to deal with larger more toxic molecules.


So you think it gave you hepatorenal syndrome? 
You’re one of those people who kinda read just enough to not know wtf you’re talking about but feel confident in saying it


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## eazy (Oct 4, 2022)




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## Test_subject (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> No, none at all. That doesn't change the fact that liver issues directly affect the kidneys. Liver = filter number 1, Kidneys = filter #2. If #1 doesn't do its job the kidneys then have to deal with larger more toxic molecules.


If your liver is failing to that degree then you have much more immediate concerns than renal damage.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> So you think it gave you hepatorenal syndrome?
> You’re one of those people who kinda read just enough to not know wtf you’re talking about but feel confident in saying it


Haha...all I did was ask a question in an earlier post, and you decided to troll the piss out of one question instead of doing anything helpful at all. Gtfo of this thread man.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Possibly....there's mild hepatotoxicity with Anavar, and 100 mg per day is a high dose. Hepatotoxicity could potentially strain the kidneys and cause edema.


Easy buddy. You were likely retaining water. Did you get bloodwork done at any time at all?


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Haha...all I did was ask a question in an earlier post, and you decided to troll the poss out of one question instead of doing anything helpful at all. Gtfo of this thread man.


Troll? Nope. Gtfo nope. This is the communities house you’re just an unwanted guest. 
It’s not just your stupid fucking question it’s every bit of stupid information you’ve posted. You have no place using gear.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Easy buddy. You were likely retaining water. Did you get bloodwork done at any time at all?


That I did not. The closest non-pcp bloodwork facility is 4 hours away from me.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Haha...all I did was ask a question in an earlier post, and you decided to troll the piss out of one question instead of doing anything helpful at all. Gtfo of this thread man.


That was a mistake.

He wasn't trolling you.

You ever hear the expression "give a man a fish and he eats dinner, teach a man to fish and he eats forever"? It's like that. 

You needed to be torn down and rebuilt. @RiR0 is good. Don't get crossed.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Troll? Nope. Gtfo nope. This is the communities house you’re just an unwanted guest.
> It’s not just your stupid fucking question it’s every bit of stupid information you’ve posted. You have no place using gear.


Where did you start? Enlighten me....


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> That I did not. The closest non-pcp bloodwork facility is 4 hours away from me.


See, so you dont know if it was liver, kidney, or simply elevated e2 and retaining water.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> See, so you dont know if it was liver, kidney, or simply elevated e2 and retaining water.


Correct...that's why I was asking in my initial post to see if anyone had similar issues in the past.


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Where did you start? Enlighten me....


By reading everything on could and not asking stupid questions. In fact I never felt comfortable posting on a forum until I was at the point I had something to offer because every question has already been asked and answered somewhere.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> By reading everything on could and not asking stupid questions. In fact I never felt comfortable posting on a forum until I was at the point I had something to offer because every question has already been asked and answered somewhere.


Ok, I'm a chemist by trade. I read for 4 months before I put anything in my body. I had a bad reaction and asked a question. 

What else is ridiculous? The diet? The workouts? I'm not trying to be compete in bodybuilding. I just want to get back to my 20 year old collegiate baseball form.


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## RiR0 (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> 1st post here, but I've been data collecting from the forums for about a year.
> 
> I'm currently 40 and planning my 3rd cycle. I'm 6' 2" 230 with an athletic build. I did my 1st ever cycle this year with the goal of dumping the dad bod (4 kids and 15 years of no excercise) and getting back into working out regularly.
> 
> ...


You’re 40 years old, don’t get bloodwork, you started this year and are already planning to start a 3rd cycle 
You just started back training after 15 years. So you haven’t done fuck all since you were 25.
You couldn’t handle 2 mild cycles. 
I’ll guarantee you didn’t have shit tested so who knows wtf your var was. 
You can barely find time to train.
You do junk volume.
Your only questions are about drugs but nothing to do with training or diet.
Yeah and we’re supposed to take you seriously


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## eazy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> you decided to troll






penalty. improper use of a word. 



> Trolls are childish commenters who deploy inflammatory and boorish antics to disrupt or drag off-topic what are otherwise interesting discussions.





> troll is _a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community_



carry on


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Ok, I'm a chemist by trade. I read for 4 months before I put anything in my body. I had a bad reaction and asked a question.
> 
> What else is ridiculous? The diet? The workouts? I'm not trying to be compete in bodybuilding. I just want to get back to my 20 year old collegiate baseball form.


No you didn't ASK. You stated "After 6 weeks I had swelling in my ankles and stopped the cycle. I'm assuming the swelling was due to high anavar dosage."

Asking would be "After 6 weeks I had swelling in my ankles and stopped the cycle. Does anyone know what might cause this?"


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

Thanks for the help!!!


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## TODAY (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Thanks for the help!!!


You're quite welcome.


Can you spare 5 minutes to fill out a quick customer satisfaction survey?


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

Anyway @ChemActinide13 Do this:

Run 400 mg to 500 mg Testosterone. That's it. Order arimidex or exemestane - PHARMA by  AstraZeneca or pfizer.

Get bloodwork before starting. That's your kinda sorta baseline. You need to keep all this stuff as a record. It will answer a lot of questions and provide a roadmap.

Run your Testosterone ONLY cycle for 10-12 weeks. Get bloodwork 6 weeks in. That's what will tell you whether you need to take a dose of exemestane or arimidex.

Finish your cycle, PCT and get follow up bloods.

Now with those 3 bloodtests you'll know everything you need to know so that you don't jump to conclusions.  You need to research and become an EXPERT at this because no one is responsible for your health more than YOU.


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## eazy (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Get bloodwork 6 weeks in. That's what will tell you whether you need to take a dose of exemestane or arimidex.


Presuming he has no obvious high e2 symptoms, what in numbers in blood work would require a dose of ex or arimidex?


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Anyway @ChemActinide13 Do this:
> 
> Run 400 mg to 500 mg Testosterone. That's it. Order arimidex or exemestane - PHARMA by  AstraZeneca or pfizer.
> 
> ...


Thanks man. I appreciate the advice.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> No you didn't ASK. You stated "After 6 weeks I had swelling in my ankles and stopped the cycle. I'm assuming the swelling was due to high anavar dosage."
> 
> Asking would be "After 6 weeks I had swelling in my ankles and stopped the cycle. Does anyone know what might cause this?"


True...


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> True...


You might want to consider apologizing at this point….


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You might want to consider apologizing at this point….


Haha...my bad. I do apologize. I honestly thought I asked it in the form of a question in the original post. Instead I used "assumed" and you know what they say about assume.

To be honest I've been reading on here for a while, and the newbies get viciously torn into on their first post. I've wanted to post questions about my 1st 2 cycles multiple times and never did for fear of that. So here we are today. I got ripped, but I learned some things. Even from @RiR0.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Haha...my bad. I do apologize. I honestly thought I asked it in the form of a question in the original post. Instead I used "assumed" and you know what they say about assume.
> 
> To be honest I've been reading on here for a while, and the newbies get viciously torn into on their first post. I've wanted to post questions about my 1st 2 cycles multiple times and never did for fear of that. So here we are today. I got ripped, but I learned some things. Even from @riro.


Well, you got ripped but you also got a lot of information. People see what they choose to see.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Well, you got ripped but you also got a lot of information. People see what they choose to see.


Yep, thanks again.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Yep, thanks again.


Read the threads about diet and training. There's A LOT of up to date info in there. You'll see real quick why you want to absorb what @RiR0 says with an open-mind. He says stuff for YOUR benefit.  

Then eventually start a log if you want specific training or diet advice.


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## lifter6973 (Oct 4, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> 1st post here, but I've been data collecting from the forums for about a year.
> 
> I'm currently 40 and planning my 3rd cycle. I'm 6' 2" 230 with an athletic build. I did my 1st ever cycle this year with the goal of dumping the dad bod (4 kids and 15 years of no excercise) and getting back into working out regularly.
> 
> ...


You dumb motherfucker.


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## CJ (Oct 4, 2022)

@ChemActinide13 If you want this pic deleted so you can block out you and your daughter's faces, let me know.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

CJ said:


> @ChemActinide13 If you want this pic deleted so you can block out you and your daughter's faces, let me know.


Uhhh...yea, I didn't think about that. Do you mind?


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Oct 4, 2022)

Lmao that’s the second person to say fuck opsec in the past month


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## Badleroybrown (Oct 4, 2022)

*I say….
Run your face into a wall.
When you wake up inject 500mg of tren only for 8-10 weeks.

Train 3 days a week.
Maybe join curves or Zumba classe’s

If you don’t have tiMe for that. Order a pelaton…

Or you can do like a normal educated person that runs these kinds of substances.. 
listen to some people because you DNsaF (don’t know shit about fuck)

So a little insight on me…
 Been at this a long time.
At this point I need a break.. so I took the drugs outta the equation, just running low dose of test. Eating like a normal fucking person . And training 3 days a week..
This is responsible.


Planing a third cycle in less then a year after having edema and possibly kidney issues is irresponsible and you are looking to hurt yourself.. you want to be able to continue going to your kids soccer games don’t you?? Cause if you are dead or have to miss a game because you need dialysis your kid will be sad..😢😢

BTW.. welcome to the  UG!! *


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

eazy said:


> please post a pic. thanks.


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## lifter6973 (Oct 4, 2022)

Which one is the girl and which one is you?


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 4, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> *I say….
> Run your face into a wall.
> When you wake up inject 500mg of tren only for 8-10 weeks.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. I appreciate the solid advice.


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## lifter6973 (Oct 4, 2022)




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## Badleroybrown (Oct 4, 2022)

I don’t understand why people think that it’s the drugs that get you in shape.
It’s your diet and training that do it.
The drugs aid in it…

Fucking tards. 
Please reconsider and just train and eat good..


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 5, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You think you had edema from anavar? Do you think this sounds stupid when you read it back?
> If it doesn’t keep reading it until it does.



Last year when I did a mild cycle of test/tren 200mg/300mg a week I was getting great gains. I gained seventeen pounds and my muscularity really improved. Prior to last year I hadn't done a cycle in approximately fourteen years. During last year's cycle my abs were looking really tight without even trying and I was growing and getting stronger thanks to the tren. I knew I was losing subcutaneous fat. But after a few weeks I noticed my feet and ankles starting to get puffy. That was a new thing for me.

I personally determined that my lack of cardio at the time and the increase in muscle mass (which creates a strain on the heart) was the reason why fluid was building up around my ankles. The heart has to work a lot harder to supply blood to the newly acquired lean tissue and wasn't doing as a good of a job as it had before the lean weight gain. So I began doing cardio four to five times a week for thirty minutes and within three weeks the veins in my feet came back and any sign of swelling was gone.

Since the OP is forty (and I was 50 last year) it's important to include moderate to very regular cardio multiple times a week. If he's going to do cycles he should be doing cardio more than twice a week to keep his heart strong. Fluid in the lower extremities can be a sign of declining kidney health or declining heart. If it's the latter, fluid accumulates in the lower extremities and an unconditioned heart simply can't pump it out and away. It pools in the ankles and feet due to gravity.

I know my experience is just anecdotal and I don't have an EKG test result to prove any of what I'm saying. But what's the worst that can happen following my advice? Better heart health regardless and a leaner body? I'll take it.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 5, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Last year when I did a mild cycle of test/tren 200mg/300mg a week I was getting great gains. I gained seventeen pounds and my muscularity really improved. Prior to last year I hadn't done a cycle in approximately fourteen years. During last year's cycle my abs were looking really tight without even trying and I was growing and getting stronger thanks to the tren. I knew I was losing subcutaneous fat. But after a few weeks I noticed my feet and ankles starting to get puffy. That was a new thing for me.
> 
> I personally determined that my lack of cardio at the time and the increase in muscle mass (which creates a strain on the heart) was the reason why fluid was building up around my ankles. The heart has to work a lot harder to supply blood to the newly acquired lean tissue and wasn't doing as a good of a job as it had before the lean weight gain. So I began doing cardio four to five times a week for thirty minutes and within three weeks the veins in my feet came back and any sign of swelling was gone.
> 
> ...


Good point. But geez 40 and 50 and bad heart already? 

It could also be fluid in your legs from standing or sitting for extended periods and cardio took care of that. 

It could also be fluid in your legs from too much sodium and running and perspiration and drinking water afterwards took care of that. 

Cardio is always good though.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 5, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Last year when I did a mild cycle of test/tren 200mg/300mg a week I was getting great gains. I gained seventeen pounds and my muscularity really improved. Prior to last year I hadn't done a cycle in approximately fourteen years. During last year's cycle my abs were looking really tight without even trying and I was growing and getting stronger thanks to the tren. I knew I was losing subcutaneous fat. But after a few weeks I noticed my feet and ankles starting to get puffy. That was a new thing for me.
> 
> I personally determined that my lack of cardio at the time and the increase in muscle mass (which creates a strain on the heart) was the reason why fluid was building up around my ankles. The heart has to work a lot harder to supply blood to the newly acquired lean tissue and wasn't doing as a good of a job as it had before the lean weight gain. So I began doing cardio four to five times a week for thirty minutes and within three weeks the veins in my feet came back and any sign of swelling was gone.
> 
> ...


Man, that's some awesome information and experiences. Thank you for sharing. I'm definitely going to get bloodwork done multiple times and add some cardio in next time, whenever that may be. After the info I've gotten today I think I'm gonna stay off gear for at least 4-6 months before I try another cycle. Let my body rest a bit.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Good point. But geez 40 and 50 and bad heart already?
> 
> It could also be fluid in your legs from standing or sitting for extended periods and cardio took care of that.
> 
> ...


So, oddly enough the edema happened after I ran a mile with my kiddos. Can that cause edema while on Test E and Anavar?


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## TODAY (Oct 5, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> add some cardio in next time, whenever that may be.


Why wait?

You should be doing cardio regardless.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 5, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> So, oddly enough the edema happened after I ran a mile with my kiddos. Can that cause edema while on Test E and Anavar?


This is maddening. 

Did it “happen” after you ran your mile or did you only notice  it then. 

There’s too many different things. You won’t be able to tell. 

But if you liver or kidneys fail after only a few weeks? You got big problems. Maybe you shouldn’t be doing any of this.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> This is maddening.
> 
> Did it “happen” after you ran your mile or did you only notice  it then.
> 
> ...


Yes I vividly remember, it started the day after I ran a mile, which was around week 6 of the cycle. That was the first long distance cardio I had done while on cycle. Prior to that the only cardio I did was a sprint between bases while playing softball. I remember my legs got a HUGE pump off of the 1 mile run. I wonder if my body had a hard time getting all of the blood out of my legs after that huge pump....


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 5, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Yes I vividly remember, it started the day after I ran a mile, which was around week 6 of the cycle. That was the first long distance cardio I had done while on cycle. Prior to that the only cardio I did was a sprint between bases while playing softball. I remember my legs got a HUGE pump off of the 1 mile run. I wonder if my body had a hard time getting all of the blood out of my legs after that huge pump....


C’mon 🙄

I’m out. Good luck.


----------



## GreenAmine (Oct 5, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Hepatotoxicity could potentially strain the kidneys and cause edema.





ChemActinide13 said:


> kidneys then have to deal with larger more toxic molecules.





ChemActinide13 said:


> I'm a chemist by trade


What kind of chemist doesn't know basic biology?


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Good point. But geez 40 and 50 and bad heart already?
> 
> It could also be fluid in your legs from standing or sitting for extended periods and cardio took care of that.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't classify myself as having a bad heart. I'm just pointing out that we can't subject ourselves to the same stresses after a certain age compared to when we were much younger. Just to give you perspective, my natural body weight without any gear or even hormone replacement gear is 185lb. I don't like being that small. And even though it's not really all that small people always assumed I weighed around 160-170. People perceived me as thin. I'm now 220 and with last year's cycle I got up to 230. So I was 45lb heavier than what my body naturally wants to be at. Extra weight on the body is harder on the heart. Regardless if it's fat or muscle. Although I don't have sources to back up my claim, I do believe that a 300lb bodybuilder probably puts more strain on his heart than a 300lb person who is obese' assuming they both have similar lack of cardio conditioning. I think that because lean muscle is much more metabolically active compared to adipose tissue and requires more oxygen, more energy, more  ATP, releases more creatinine into the body, more carbon dioxide, and more waste products in general that need to be carried away via the circulatory system (among other systems) compared to just blubber under the skin.

What I also didn't mention earlier was that I'd occasionally feel a super quick flash of pain in my chest now and then after I gained the weight from my cycle. That helped me determine that the swelling in my feet/ankles was heart related. So I took matters into my own hands and started doing the cardio and have never felt that flash of quick sharp pain in my heart again. Someday I'll get an EKG to confirm if all is well with my ticker. But I believe I took the right steps. . Also, my resting heart rate dropped from 92 down to 75 bpm. A better conditioned heart is a lot more efficient at doing its job compared to an out of shape one.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 5, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> What kind of chemist doesn't know basic biology?


In this day and age, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to hear that he had a hyper-specialized degree in arboreal biochemistry or some shit


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 5, 2022)

I am going to say it again…

Tren.. omfng!!

People that have no buisness using this shit are taking it because they thing it’s a fix to there issues…

This is one of the most hardest drugs you can use.. and people are putting 
ItInto there body because they want AB’s..

No cycle for 14 years and the first time back on the horse test and tren.

Like I said . Uneducated people doing uneducated shit when It comes to aas..

What ever happened to test only
Or test/deca…

I know a few guys that compete yearly and do really well. They are not ametures or new to this sport.. )notice I did not say game) like a lot of people do.

It’s not a game. Putting these things intoYour body should be considered as serious as a heart attack.

Anything can go wrong with any substance..

Anyway the few guys I know only run tren the last 5-6 weeks for there prep..

The rest of the year it’s a basic test/deca
Or eq 
Or npp
And they look amazing and better then most people on the board..
Well the ones that are using tren regular “to fet abs”.

Now am I exempt
FROM this. No..

I used it three time In My life of over a decade and a half of using anabolics..
But it defenitly was not incorporated into
My first or second cycle.
I am talking years of cycling and being on non stop before I thought it was time. And ther was years in between. Not months.

Anyway.. this is my rant. Some will agree some will tell me to fuck off..
If you could see my face it would look like DILGAF!!!
✌️


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 5, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> I wouldn't classify myself as having a bad heart. I'm just pointing out that we can't subject ourselves to the same stresses after a certain age compared to when we were much younger. Just to give you perspective, my natural body weight without any gear or even hormone replacement gear is 185lb. I don't like being that small. And even though it's not really all that small people always assumed I weighed around 160-170. People perceived me as thin. I'm now 220 and with last year's cycle I got up to 230. So I was 45lb heavier than what my body naturally wants to be at. Extra weight on the body is harder on the heart. Regardless if it's fat or muscle. Although I don't have sources to back up my claim, I do believe that a 300lb bodybuilder probably puts more strain on his heart than a 300lb person who is obese' assuming they both have similar lack of cardio conditioning. I think that because lean muscle is much more metabolically active compared to adipose tissue and requires more oxygen, more energy, more  ATP, releases more creatinine into the body, more carbon dioxide, and more waste products in general that need to be carried away via the circulatory system (among other systems) compared to just blubber under the skin.
> 
> What I also didn't mention earlier was that I'd occasionally feel a super quick flash of pain in my chest now and then after I gained the weight from my cycle. That helped me determine that the swelling in my feet/ankles was heart related. So I took matters into my own hands and started doing the cardio and have never felt that flash of quick sharp pain in my heart again. Someday I'll get an EKG to confirm if all is well with my ticker. But I believe I took the right steps. . Also, my resting heart rate dropped from 92 down to 75 bpm. A better conditioned heart is a lot more efficient at doing its job compared to an out of shape one.


Your post just made me blast myself in the face with a shotgun.


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 5, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Your post just made me blast myself in the face with a shotgun.





roidmedangerfield said:


> I wouldn't classify myself as having a bad heart. I'm just pointing out that we can't subject ourselves to the same stresses after a certain age compared to when we were much younger. Just to give you perspective, my natural body weight without any gear or even hormone replacement gear is 185lb. I don't like being that small. And even though it's not really all that small people always assumed I weighed around 160-170. People perceived me as thin. I'm now 220 and with last year's cycle I got up to 230. So I was 45lb heavier than what my body naturally wants to be at. Extra weight on the body is harder on the heart. Regardless if it's fat or muscle. Although I don't have sources to back up my claim, I do believe that a 300lb bodybuilder probably puts more strain on his heart than a 300lb person who is obese' assuming they both have similar lack of cardio conditioning. I think that because lean muscle is much more metabolically active compared to adipose tissue and requires more oxygen, more energy, more  ATP, releases more creatinine into the body, more carbon dioxide, and more waste products in general that need to be carried away via the circulatory system (among other systems) compared to just blubber under the skin.
> 
> What I also didn't mention earlier was that I'd occasionally feel a super quick flash of pain in my chest now and then after I gained the weight from my cycle. That helped me determine that the swelling in my feet/ankles was heart related. So I took matters into my own hands and started doing the cardio and have never felt that flash of quick sharp pain in my heart again. Someday I'll get an EKG to confirm if all is well with my ticker. But I believe I took the right steps. . Also, my resting heart rate dropped from 92 down to 75 bpm. A better conditioned heart is a lot more efficient at doing its job compared to an out of shape one.


BBBG… why oh why are we dealing with stupid fucking people like this…

Did he really say he had sharp shooting pains in his chest..
And he didn’t go to the dr but said he may get a EKG some day…

WTF!!!
People like this deserve the outcome from there stupidity.


----------



## crido887 (Oct 5, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Possibly....there's mild hepatotoxicity with Anavar, and 100 mg per day is a high dose. Hepatotoxicity could potentially strain the kidneys and cause edema.


uh what? usually edema would happen with kidney failure if your body cannot excrete the fluid.
It would happen with liver failure too if your body isnt producing enough albumin to keep in the blood vessels.

It wouldnt be from strain....

jumping to too many different scenarios with google.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> BBBG… why oh why are we dealing with stupid fucking people like this…
> 
> Did he really say he had sharp shooting pains in his chest..





Badleroybrown said:


> BBBG… why oh why are we dealing with stupid fucking people like this…
> 
> Did he really say he had sharp shooting pains in his chest..
> And he didn’t go to the dr but said he may get a EKG some day…
> ...


 

"There stupidity." The irony of you calling me stupid  when you're incapable of distinguishing the difference between a basic pronoun and a simple adverb. LOL

By the way, no doctor is going to insist on an EKG after I tell them that I had a sharp pinch in my chest that didn't even last long enough for me to say the number "one" outloud. That happened no more than a total of three times and that never happened again after I made some lifestyle adjustments (e.g. adding cardio to my daily routine). 

I'm still here a year later and I'm doing just fine. Which means my outcome is good so it looks like I got the outcome I "deserve."


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> "There stupidity." The irony of you calling me stupid  when you're incapable of distinguishing the difference between a basic pronoun and a simple adverb. LOL
> 
> By the way, no doctor is going to insist on an EKG after I tell them that I had a sharp pinch in my chest that didn't even last long enough for me to say the number "one" outloud. That happened no more than a total of three times and that never happened again after I made some lifestyle adjustments (e.g. adding cardio to my daily routine).
> 
> I'm still here a year later and I'm doing just fine. Which means my outcome is good so it looks like I got the outcome I "deserve."


Oh, you feel fine?



Everything must be okay, then.



Carry on.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Oh, you feel fine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you. I'll do just that.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Thank you. I'll do just that.


Right on!

People need to realize that nothing bad has ever happened to a person who felt fine.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

It's just a basic fact of human biology.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> "There stupidity." The irony of you calling me stupid  when you're incapable of distinguishing the difference between a basic pronoun and a simple adverb. LOL
> 
> By the way, no doctor is going to insist on an EKG after I tell them that I had a sharp pinch in my chest that didn't even last long enough for me to say the number "one" outloud. That happened no more than a total of three times and that never happened again after I made some lifestyle adjustments (e.g. adding cardio to my daily routine).
> 
> I'm still here a year later and I'm doing just fine. Which means my outcome is good so it looks like I got the outcome I "deserve."


It just means you’re a retard. You read some shit on the interwebs and the next thing you know you’re having a heart attack. You think “the pump” is strong enough to constrict the flow of your veins. That’s pure retardation. Just STFU if you have any sense of pride.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Right on!
> 
> People need to realize that nothing bad has ever happened to a person who felt fine.



At first I thought you really cared and was expressing your concerns through tongue and cheek sarcasm. 

But now I'm getting the impression that you're just bored.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> At first I thought you really cared and was expressing your concerns through tongue and cheek sarcasm.
> 
> But now I'm getting the impression that you're just bored.


Huh?

Why would anybody be concerned when you made it very clear that you feel fine?


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> It just means you’re a retard. You read some shit on the interwebs and the next thing you know you’re having a heart attack. You think “the pump” is strong enough to constrict the flow of your veins. That’s pure retardation. Just STFU if you have any sense of pride.


NO you STFU.

A one time sharp pinch in the heart is not a sign of a heart attack.

And I never said anything about "the pump" is strong enough to constrict blood flow blah blah blah. Clearly your comprehension skills need some serious improving.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> NO you STFU.
> 
> A one time sharp pinch in the heart is not a sign of a heart attack.
> 
> And I never said anything about "the pump" is strong enough to constrict blood flow blah blah blah. Clearly your comprehension skills need some serious improving.


Just ignore him, bro


He's obviously jealous of your impeccable cardiovascular health.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

Oh is that all? And here I thought he was just an idiot. 

My bad.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- deleted 🖕🖕 run Tren!


----------



## Test_subject (Oct 6, 2022)

This thread delivered the lulz. 

The highlight was definitely hepatotoxicity destroying your kidneys. This chemist guy must have shorted himself on biology electives in school.


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> This thread delivered the lulz.
> 
> The highlight was definitely hepatotoxicity destroying your kidneys. This chemist guy must have shorted himself on biology electives in school.


I kind of miss the old days of tearing some of the board noob idiots a new asshole but this will do. You are right, the lulz are still delivered.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I didn’t say a pinch is a sign of heart attack. Though I’m not sure why you felt the need to point out that pinch anyway.
> 
> You guys are retarded for pointing out the value of cardio to a bunch of guys that are in this for fitness. Makes me wonder how long it took your smooth brain to arrive at that epiphany.
> 
> Retard.



In this for fitness? Bitch, please. None of us here need to be taking copious amounts of androgens or even modest cycles to maintain fitness. Unless people here are medically prescribed hormone replacement therapy none of the drugs everyone talks about here is needed for fitness.

IDIOT.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

Sigh...

I see a doctor three times a year. I just saw my new doctor earlier this week, in fact. And since I'm getting a hard time from long-standing and founding members of this site who really "care" (through sarcasm) I decided to send him an email through MyChart. We'll see what he says. At this point I'm gonna guess he's going to tell me what I already said above (e.i. keep an eye on it, etc.)


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Sigh...
> 
> I see a doctor three times a year. I just saw my new doctor earlier this week, in fact. And since I'm getting a hard time from long-standing and founding members of this site who really "care" (through sarcasm) decided to send him an email through MyChart. We'll see what he says. At this point I'm gonna guess he's going to tell me what I already said above (e.i. keep an eye on it, etc.)


Does your doctor know the details of your AAS use?


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Does your doctor know the details of your AAS use?



What is the point of you asking? You don't really care. You just want ammo to use against me if I were to say no my doctor does not know. 

I saw my new doctor this week. And to answer the question, he does know. And the previous doctor I had also knew. But the doctor I had last year when I cycled last year didn't know. I didn't like her for multiple reasons. I've had three doctors over the past year.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- deleted 🖕🖕 run Tren!


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You crack me up. Instead of just apologizing for saying stupid shit and moving on, you just dig deeper and deeper. “Being right” is THAT important to you?
> 
> You miss the point, but honestly I’m not surprised. Of course your doctor is going to just say keep an eye on it. I’m saying it was all made up in your mind to begin with.
> 
> I’m in it for fitness. I want to be healthy. I also enjoy lifting heavier weights. I just did a cycle of 600 mg testosterone and liked the results I got. My goal was to add to what I could bench and I did. If you’re using Tren for vanity then great. But you should be concerned for your health as well.



You claim it's "all in my head." Then later you state I should be concerned for my health. 

You contradict yourself. 

And you don't need 600mg of steroids for fitness or to be healthy. 

You do need it for ego boosting, however. Whether it's vanity, winning a beauty pageant contest (which is what bodybuilding competitions are and nothing more) or lifting more weight at the gym; it's all superfluous. And all of us here are guilty of that.


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> You claim it's "all in my head." Then later you state I should be concerned for my health.
> 
> You contradict yourself.
> 
> ...


Didn't like for your interpretation of bigbuttbeardguy but rather the last paragraph. If I was honest I would probably say that is me too.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- deleted 🖕🖕


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- deleted 🖕🖕


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Just stirring again. Here I can do that. BRB.


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Just stirring again. Here I can do that. BRB.


I agree with what you are saying. I'm just saying one thing he said in his post sounded like me even though I don't like to think it or say it out loud.

Edit: but yeah I was also stirring the pot replacing bald with butt


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> I agree with what you are saying. I'm just saying one thing he said in his post sounded like me even though I don't like to think it or say it out loud.


bigbuttbeardguy. Ok queefer6973.


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> bigbuttbeardguy. Ok queefer6973.


I edited. Yes indeed there was some pot stirring replacing bald with butt


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> bigbuttbeardguy. Ok queefer6973.


I think one of the funniest ones someone has called me is loser6973.
I mean its simple but for some reason it makes me laugh.

Edit:  Poofter6973 was another. Not even sure what that is but it sounds bad. Queefer is a good one.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Whatever man. You are arguing for the sake of argument and twisting words to support yourself.
> 
> But you sound retarded.
> 
> ...



It's called cardiomegaly. It can occur in non-steroid using athletes and fitness enthusiasts who excessively exercise. It also occurs more commonly with bodybuilders who use steroids.

And I didn't just say "lean muscle" puts a strain on the heart. That is a perfect example of you twisting my words around so that you can create this imaginary counterargument only to get all worked up over your own poor comprehension skills and follow me around the forums to give me negative likes.

 I shared my "opinion" about a 300lb bodybuilder. Not on lean muscle. I was implying in my previous post that a man who is 300lb of muscle, thanks to heavy roids, who would more than likely be 200-220lb naturally (if he didn't do any steroids), is putting a lot of unnecessary strain on his heart. But apparently that went over your head. So I spelled it all out for you now. And my opinion is based on what I read or view online from sources with more credentials than you as you sit on your throne in the UL kingdom where "fitness" is the number one priority.

The fascinating truth about why bigger muscles aren't necessarily better

_*Big and bulky muscles require a more powerful heart muscle. Can your heart keep up?  *_​_Big and bulky muscles don't necessarily produce much explosive force. Such big muscles may even be unhealthy, like in the case of cardiomegaly, the enlargement of the heart. When heart tissue is incapable of exerting as much force as it should, the heart often grows larger to compensate. Those who have cardiomegaly, including exercise enthusiasts, may die earlier *because the heart has to work so hard to support its own bulk.*_


----------



## crido887 (Oct 6, 2022)

It isn't hard to get an EKG from a doctor.  It's a simple test, echo may be harder

Lower feet swelling could be from vascular issues. It's common in aging but the fact you have angina every so often is concerning.

Could also come from kidney issues or androgens in general.

Based off of my experience. People who keep seeking multiple doctors have issues with being told with what reality is. They keep seeking out validation from different people of what they are doing is right ..


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- deleted 🖕🖕


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

crido887 said:


> It isn't hard to get an EKG from a doctor.  It's a simple test, echo may be harder
> 
> Lower feet swelling could be from vascular issues. It's common in aging but the fact you have angina every so often is concerning.
> 
> ...


Save it. He’s King Retard now. He’s not going to listen. He knows it all. Or can use google.


----------



## crido887 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Oh. My mistake. Great “article” LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. What’s a CMO? Chief MARKETING Officer. For what company? Aurum Fit. What does Aurum Fit make?


I originally thought it said chief medical officer. I was like "oh wow, they have a doctor"


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- deleted 🖕🖕


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

crido887 said:


> It isn't hard to get an EKG from a doctor.  It's a simple test, echo may be harder
> 
> Lower feet swelling could be from vascular issues. It's common in aging but the fact you have angina every so often is concerning.
> 
> ...



If your comment about seeking multiple doctors was indirectly directed at me since I stated I had three doctors in one year, then allow me to elaborate further. My doctor from last year left to pursue more medical education. I didn't stop seeing her. She is now a full time student again. 

The second doctor I saw who took her place I really like A LOT. He's still at the same office that I go to. It was his idea to have me see the third doctor I am now seeing because my testosterone levels were a bit high. I talked indirectly about this in my endocrinologist post here in the forums. Not to drag that all up again but my second physician suggested I work with a newly hired doctor at the same office who specializes in HRT. So I was open to the idea if it meant I could keep the same HRT dose. 

I met the third doctor earlier this week. Had no clue about him or what he looked like. I'm waiting in the room for him and this big muscle man bodybuilder walks in the room. Bigger than me but shorter. He introduced himself as my new doctor. We looked at each other and grinned. Needless to say, things went very well. Oh, and without me asking for anything he increased my dose from 150 a week to 200mg. All I said was, "I don't want to lower my current dose." He looked at my labs, all of which were fine and gave me more. Funny how different doctors approach the same thing so differently. 

And the reason why I guessed that my heart was the issue and not my kidneys regarding the swelling around my ankles was because my eGFR was 70+ and my creatinine levels were within normal range.


----------



## crido887 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> If your comment about seeking multiple doctors was indirectly directed at me since I stated I had three doctors in one year, then allow me to elaborate further. My doctor from last year left to pursue more medical education. I didn't stop seeing her. She is now a full time student again.
> 
> The second doctor I saw who took her place I really like A LOT. He's still at the same office that I go to. It was his idea to have me see the third doctor I am now seeing because my testosterone levels were a bit high. I talked indirectly about this in my endocrinologist post here in the forums. Not to drag that all up again but my second physician suggested I work with a newly hired doctor at the same office who specializes in HRT. So I was open to the idea if it meant I could keep the same HRT dose.
> 
> ...


Then if should be easier to get an echo from the bodybuilder doctor.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Lol if any doctor recommends “training like an astronaut” as being more beneficial than the normal training we do here on the planet earth, then they’re fucked up. That’s the dumbest concept.
> 
> But that’s the shit that happens when you need to rely on the Google to support your bullshit argument because you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.



Says the idiot who has made putting words into other people's mouth his number one top priority.

I'll stick to Google for sources rather than take advice from Skeletor. 

Funny, how you supposedly have a wife and what? Four kids? Yet you apparently have so much time to invest in what I type here. I can only imagine what it must  be like for people in your life who truly do matter.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

crido887 said:


> Then if should be easier to get an echo from the bodybuilder doctor.



I actually sent him an email through MyChart asking him about an hour ago. 

I'll see what he says.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- deleted 🖕🖕


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> I actually sent him an email through MyChart asking him about an hour ago.
> 
> I'll see what he says.


In all honesty

At your age and with your history, getting a comprehensive cardiac workup done should be a priority.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> If your comment about seeking multiple doctors was indirectly directed at me since I stated I had three doctors in one year, then allow me to elaborate further. My doctor from last year left to pursue more medical education. I didn't stop seeing her. She is now a full time student again.
> 
> The second doctor I saw who took her place I really like A LOT. He's still at the same office that I go to. It was his idea to have me see the third doctor I am now seeing because my testosterone levels were a bit high. I talked indirectly about this in my endocrinologist post here in the forums. Not to drag that all up again but my second physician suggested I work with a newly hired doctor at the same office who specializes in HRT. So I was open to the idea if it meant I could keep the same HRT dose.
> 
> ...


Wordy because of the autism you have.


----------



## FlyingPapaya (Oct 6, 2022)

Let's see some pics up in here


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Ahhhh…. I see now. This isn’t your first handle here or your 15th or 20th.
> 
> Get some original material.



LOL! God, you are so cynical. This is my first and only account on this site.

I don't know


BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Wordy because of the autism you have.



Don't like it? Then put me on ignore? No one is forcing you to read what I post here.  Now I see you're chasing me around the site and giving me a WTF to every post I provide. Even when it has nothing to do with you. Stop making everything about you!

I can type nearly 100 words a minute. So it's easy to get carried away. I would say sorry but I never apologize to idiots.


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> It's called cardiomegaly. It can occur in non-steroid using athletes and fitness enthusiasts who excessively exercise. It also occurs more commonly with bodybuilders who use steroids.
> 
> And I didn't just say "lean muscle" puts a strain on the heart. That is a perfect example of you twisting my words around so that you can create this imaginary counterargument only to get all worked up over your own poor comprehension skills and follow me around the forums to give me negative likes.
> 
> ...


Goddamn you’re a fucking retard


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Goddamn you’re a fucking retard



STFU. No one was talking to you.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted 🖕🖕


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> STFU. No one was talking to you.


Well I’m talking to you. I just don’t want people to think you’re someone with knowledge or an opinion that matters.


----------



## eazy (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Stop making everything about you!





can't be you in the avi.

that's my wife's go to when she is no longer making coherent points in our conversation.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> What can I say, you say a lot of dumb shit. So you get the “WTF” stamp.
> 
> Do you “Train like an Astronaut” too. Or was that just some random shit article you cherry-picked off the google to support the stupid you posted yesterday. I’m not a scientician but I’ll choose muscley over obesity as being healthier 100/100.



Adipose tissue isn't metabolically active. Lean muscle tissue is and therefore requires higher demands on the body to support a multitude of bodily functions. 

Muscly isn't the same as being 300lb of solid muscle, which is excessive. The only way you can counter anything I say is by completely rewording nearly everything I type here.


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Adipose tissue isn't metabolically active. Lean muscle tissue is and therefore requires higher demands on the body to support a multitude of bodily functions.
> 
> Muscly isn't the same as being 300lb of solid muscle, which is excessive. The only way you can counter anything I say is by completely rewording nearly everything I type here.


Blah blah blah 😑 😒 😕


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Adipose tissue isn't metabolically active.


This is an antiquated and reductive view.

You're almost correct in some of your assertions, but not for the reasons that you think.



It's kind of fascinating


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Well I’m talking to you. I just don’t want people to think you’re someone with knowledge or an opinion that matters.



You don't matter.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> This is an antiquated and reductive view.
> 
> You're almost correct in some of your assertions, but not for the reasons that you think.
> 
> ...



Fascinating in a way that makes you want to keep on engaging me, right?


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

eazy said:


> can't be you in the avi.
> 
> that's my wife's go to when she is no longer making coherent points in our conversation.



Your wife has a schlong you can't get enough of.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Fascinating in a way that makes you want to keep on engaging me, right?


Yes, actually.


Like a fun oddity to be passed around at cocktail parties


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

/ deleted


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

Is adipose tissue metabolically dynamic?


----------



## eazy (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Your wife has a schlong




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577640615155843076


----------



## MisterSuperGod (Oct 6, 2022)

lifter6973 said:


> I think one of the funniest ones someone has called me is loser6973.
> I mean its simple but for some reason it makes me laugh.
> 
> Edit:  Poofter6973 was another. Not even sure what that is but it sounds bad. Queefer is a good one.



Nah, the best was when you replied to a post on Meso after misreading something and some dude said "that's why his name isn't reader6973."


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You said “300 lb bodybuilder”. I first said “lean muscle” and you said I was wrong. So now I’m trying to be general and use “muscly” and you say I’m wrong.
> 
> So I’ll choose being bodybuilderish over obesity as healthier 110/100





TODAY said:


> Yes, actually.
> 
> 
> Like a fun oddity to be passed around at cocktail parties



I don't do cocktail parties.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Hold on. He has to google it. He might come back with an expert report that he pulled off of the Shake Weight website.


My money's on healthline.com


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> I don't do cocktail parties.


Selfish


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Hold on. He has to google it. He might come back with an expert report that he pulled off of the Shake Weight website.



And you don't need Google or any source because clearly you're omniscient. 

It was so wrong of me to challenge you in any way.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Selfish



You nailed it.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted. Fuck content


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

Hey, does anyone know what I could replace my Tren with??? Just checking.....Man, I just ran out of popcorn.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> You’re arguing obesity vs bodybuilder and trying to say the obese person would have a healthier heart. I could be a 12 year old and win that argument.
> 
> Edit: a retarded 12 yr old
> 
> Edit edit: a retarded 12 yr old thst can’t speak English



It's clear you're so enraptured by your own snarky insults. Nine times out of ten that's about all you're good for in these forums and I pretty much gloss over most of what you say here. Seems to be either insults or you policing people in the threads; telling us all how we're supposed to comport ourselves in your kingdom. But I honestly can't recall anything  you said around here as valuable or useful.

I didn't "argue" it as fact. I tossed my comment out there as my own personal thought/opinion. You don't have to get so worked up over an opinion.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted. Doesn’t bother me


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Hey, does anyone know what I could replace my Tren with??? Just checking.....Man, I just ran out of popcorn.



Sorry to derail your thread. But to get back on topic there is a recent thread about DHB that I just learned about. It sounds promising. The OP of that thread said he likes it better than tren and by his photos he looks incredible. And it makes me want to further investigate and give it a try myself.


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Sorry to derail your thread. But to get back on topic there is a recent thread about DHB that I just learned about. It sounds promising. The OP of that thread said he likes it better than tren and by his photos he looks incredible. And it makes me want to further investigate and give it a try myself.


Wait so now you’re recommending a drug you have not a fucking clue about or experience with?


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Sorry to derail your thread. But to get back on topic there is a recent thread about DHB that I just learned about. It sounds promising. The OP of that thread said he likes it better than tren and by his photos he looks incredible. And it makes me want to further investigate and give it a try myself.


Haha, no worries mate. I was just joking. Through some painful ridicule and harsh words I got some good recommendations I'm looking into.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted. Shit fuck ass


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

eazy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577640615155843076


LOL - Ignorant shit at the gym never disappoints


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Hey, does anyone know what I could replace my Tren with??? Just checking.....Man, I just ran out of popcorn.


STFU!


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I swear I’m not out to get you, but OP has two cycles under his belt. Both that he prematurely aborted. He just needs testosterone for now.
> 
> Plus, he’s a soccer player. 😜


Don't forget...a soccer player and nuclear chemist. 

I purposefully avoided replying to the people making fun of my lack of Biology. They were right...I have a specified chemistry degree that didn't require biochemistry. I'm pretty sure I only had to have Bio1 Bio2 and Micro.


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I swear I’m not out to get you, but OP has two cycles under his belt. Both that he prematurely aborted. He just needs testosterone for now.
> 
> Plus, he’s a soccer player. 😜


What he needs is to play a real sport. Who needs steroids for soccer?


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Don't forget...a soccer player and nuclear chemist.
> 
> I purposefully avoided replying to the people making fun of my lack of Biology. They were right...I have a specified chemistry degree that didn't require biochemistry. I'm pretty sure I only had to have Bio1 Bio2 and Micro.


What godforsaken backwoods hickshack of a college offers any chemistry degree that doesn't require a biochemistry course?  You going to tell me you didn't have to take organic chemistry either?


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Wait so now you’re recommending a drug you have not a fucking clue about or experience with?



Dang. You are unbelievably dense. I clearly did not use the word "recommend." I specifically shared my input on what I thought sounded promising. 

The people here giving me the most shit are the ones putting words in my mouth.


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Dang. You are unbelievably smart. I clearly did infer the word "recommend." I specifically shared my input on what I thought others should try.
> 
> The people here giving me the most shit are the ones putting me in my place.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 6, 2022)

Very funny.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> I wasn’t worked up. I simply said that your comment made me want to blast myself in my face with a shotgun. That’s all I said until YOU got all pissy with @Badleroybrown   Go back and look. I even gave you multiple opportunities to back yourself out of your original statement.
> 
> Again, swelling of the ankles could literally be a dozen different things. It doesn’t have to be heart related or kidney related.


Now why did you have to bring me into this…
I thought we were going to let things rest..


But this is my point. Gotta run your mouth… it may be your way to attempt humor, 
 but I just think it’s you throwing daggers hiding behind your keyboard while touching yourself and eating pizza..

Beginning to really dislike you….

You are a argumentative little fucker.
Who gets off on being “as a meter of fact “ with people..
I know I know there are people that appreciate how you are here. But I am going to say there are more here that think your a tool then don’t..

.. 
bro this is the internet. Does not dictate my life.. 

You can say whatever you want about me blah blah blah… nanannananaa. 
Your not talking to some newb that just joined a day or a week ago..

Soooo with that being said. Continue to eat your pizza and looking for new guys to put on blast…


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Dang. You are unbelievably dense. I clearly did not use the word "recommend." I specifically shared my input on what I thought sounded promising.
> 
> The people here giving me the most shit are the ones putting words in my mouth.


Youre calling another person Unbelievably dense? Have you read your posts?


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> I have no idea really wtf I’m talking about.
> I read some shit on google and didn’t understand it, but I like to respond to threads and post just to post.
> In real life I’m the type of person who interjects in conversations when I have no knowledge or experience about the subject just hear myself talk and feel like I’m a part of something.


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

Badleroybrown said:


> Now why did you have to bring me into this…
> I thought we were going to let things rest..
> 
> 
> ...


Who thinks he’s a tool? The older members who are about fucking useless and no more knowledgeable than the new retards we rip apart?


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Who thinks he’s a tool? The older members who are about fucking useless and no more knowledgeable than the new retards we rip apart?


I'm old and confused and my kidneys are failing




Where is the bathroom


----------



## eazy (Oct 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> Where is the bathroom


----------



## Thebiggestdumbass (Oct 6, 2022)

eazy said:


> View attachment 29593


@JuiceTrain i found a 3rd girl for you


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Who thinks he’s a tool? The older members who are about fucking useless and no more knowledgeable than the new retards we rip apart?


I think @BigBaldBeardGuy is a tool and I love him but no homo


----------



## Methyl mike (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> 1st post here, but I've been data collecting from the forums for about a year.
> 
> I'm currently 40 and planning my 3rd cycle. I'm 6' 2" 230 with an athletic build. I did my 1st ever cycle this year with the goal of dumping the dad bod (4 kids and 15 years of no excercise) and getting back into working out regularly.
> 
> ...


Swelling in your ankles could have a few causes and without bloodwork and family history to look at it's pointless to just guess. 

Eq might work for what you want. But first get an idea what is happening in your body if you are halfway intelligent.


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Swelling in your ankles could have a few causes and without bloodwork and family history to look at it's pointless to just guess.
> 
> Eq might work for what you want. But first get an idea what is happening in your body if you are halfway intelligent.


Hey Mike when’s the last time you got bloodwork?


----------



## Methyl mike (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> No, none at all. That doesn't change the fact that liver issues directly affect the kidneys. Liver = filter number 1, Kidneys = filter #2. If #1 doesn't do its job the kidneys then have to deal with larger more toxic molecules.


I highly doubt you have a completely failing liver firstly and second anavar even at 100mgs is pretty well tolerated.  I find it hard to believe your ankles were swelling from anavar. I have a friend who gets pitted edema on his shins anytime he runs GH at any dose, used to freak us all out he just had to get used to it. Just a reaction his body always has.


----------



## Methyl mike (Oct 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Hey Mike when’s the last time you got bloodwork?


A little less than a year ago and like I said kindly fuck off. You were better when you were somewhat humble, now you are a shit troll and useless to the community.


----------



## Methyl mike (Oct 6, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Hey Mike when’s the last time you got bloodwork?


A little less than a year ago and like I said kindly fuck off. You were better when you were somewhat humble, now you are a shit troll and useless to the community.


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 6, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> A little less than a year ago and like I said kindly fuck off. You were better when you were somewhat humble, now you are a shit troll and useless to the community.


You haven’t gotten bloods done in almost a year and you’re telling someone to do it if they’re halfway intelligent. Interesting. 
Useless to the community? I literally just wrote a guy a whole training routine. 
What have you provided?


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> Swelling in your ankles could have a few causes and without bloodwork and family history to look at it's pointless to just guess.
> 
> Eq might work for what you want. But first get an idea what is happening in your body if you are halfway intelligent.


Thanks for the response man. BBBG has me sold on soloing a Test only cycle considering the issues I've had the last 2 cycles.

If all goes well and my bloodwork, which i have learned is a must, looks good I may look at adding Eq or DHB on cycle further down the road. I've done a good bit of reading since posting and it sounds like a lot of people have success with less side effects than Tren using Eq and DHB. I definitely want more time before deciding if DHB is an option. Seems like there's not a ton of experience out there with it.


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> A little less than a year ago and like I said kindly fuck off. You were better when you were somewhat humble, now you are a shit troll and useless to the community.


This forum sure likes to bash on the guys that know what they’re fucking talking about. @RiR0 “useless to the community”. Well fuck me. That’s an interesting point of view.


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

@BigBaldBeardGuy I did find a local lab that does private blood work. It was between $400-$500 for Test lab work with some options to add some other tests. 

Is this pretty reasonable or normal price wise?


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

deleted


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

- delete


----------



## eazy (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Is this pretty reasonable or normal price wise?


No.









						Hormone Testing Blood Work For Men & Women Near You. Blood Test by Private MD Labs
					

Order lab tests in 1 minute online without a doctor's visit with Private MD Labs. Take your test at a private lab the same day! Browse 1000’s of blood tests today!




					www.privatemdlabs.com
				




code RHINO save 15%


----------



## TODAY (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Thanks for the response man. BBBG has me sold on soloing a Test only cycle considering the issues I've had the last 2 cycles.
> 
> If all goes well and my bloodwork, which i have learned is a must, looks good I may look at adding Eq or DHB on cycle further down the road. I've done a good bit of reading since posting and it sounds like a lot of people have success with less side effects than Tren using Eq and DHB. I definitely want more time before deciding if DHB is an option. Seems like there's not a ton of experience out there with it.


I'm glad to see that you've taken some advice to heart.

Shows humility and a willingness to learn.

That bodes well.


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Don’t get the mail in DIY blood tests though. Those are useless.


This was through Labcorp. I'll keep digging, and avoid the DIY test.


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

eazy said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks mate.


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

TODAY said:


> I'm glad to see that you've taken some advice to heart.
> 
> Shows humility and a willingness to learn.
> 
> That bodes well.


You guys are the experts and have years upon years of experience compared to my 1 year. I figured setting my pride aside and taking the nuggets of info out of posts were the way to go.

The point I stopped feeling sorry for myself and decided to listen was when multiple people mentioned my health, and being there for my kids between making fun of my noobness.


----------



## eazy (Oct 6, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Thanks mate.


you can have your order fulfilled with either quest or labcorp with private md. 

pricing is different between the two, in my state quest is a little less, when you see them side by side on the website it will all make sense. good luck.


----------



## lifter6973 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Nah. There’s some cheaper options.
> Privatemdlabs.com
> 
> There’s another one too. The name escapes me right now.


LabsMD


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

Delete because fuck advice


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

eazy said:


> you can have your order fulfilled with either quest or labcorp with private md.
> 
> pricing is different between the two, in my state quest is a little less, when you see them side by side on the website it will all make sense. good luck.


I saw that. Quest is about 91 miles to the closest lab, and the Labcorp lab is 3 miles away. Of course I get stuck with the expensive one in my back yard.


----------



## ChemActinide13 (Oct 6, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Yea, the guys gave the other options too.
> 
> Now you get to look thru and decide which panel you wanna get. 🤣 Good luck with that one.
> 
> ...


Ahhh man, I didn't even think about my annual wellness checkup through my PCP. That one will be free!!!


----------



## crido887 (Oct 7, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Nah. There’s some cheaper options.
> Privatemdlabs.com
> 
> There’s another one too. The name escapes me right now.


There's always a 20 percent coupon. Just gotta look for it. Total should be less than 120

No reason to not get labs if people spent 500 dollars on gear









						BioTE Male Post Pellet
					

The BioTE Male Post Pellet panel contains 3 tests with 37 biomarkers.




					www.ultalabtests.com
				












						Lipid Panel and Comprehensive Metabolic Panel-CMP
					

The Lipid Panel and Comprehensive Metabolic Panel-CMP panel contains 2 tests with 28 biomarkers.




					www.ultalabtests.com


----------



## GreenAmine (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Adipose tissue isn't metabolically active


"Adipose tissue is a complex, essential, and highly active metabolic and endocrine organ."

Source: *first fucking sentence* of https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15181022/


----------



## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 7, 2022)

delete cause fuck it


----------



## CJ (Oct 7, 2022)

Here's another online private bloodwork link, if you live in a nanny State like I do... 









						Online Blood Testing Services and Telemedicine | Personalabs
					

Personalabs is your one-stop shop for online blood testing and telemedicine. Get the lab tests and answers you want, when you want them.




					www.personalabs.com


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> "Adipose tissue is a complex, essential, and highly active metabolic and endocrine organ."
> 
> Source: *first fucking sentence* of https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15181022/



Look at the sources from that site that you provided. The fat that they're talking about is visceral fat that is part of organs. I was talking about subcutaneous fat under the skin. The first cited source is this or to sound just like you, *"first fucking source"*:

Characteristics of adipocytokine expression by local fat depots *of the heart*: Relationship with the main risk factors for cardio-vascular diseases

Visceral fat and subcutaneous fat are two different animals.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

LOL..

Has a wife, four kids and yet still has time to read my every post to leave me a WTF.


----------



## GreenAmine (Oct 7, 2022)

You said "adipose tissue". You did not specify which type. Subcutaneous adipocytes *are* metabolically active; much less so than visceral adipocytes, yes, but still metabolically active.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> You said "adipose tissue". You did not specify which type. Subcutaneous adipocytes *are* metabolically active; much less so than visceral adipocytes, yes, but still metabolically active.



In post #66 of this thread I said, "compared to just *blubber under the skin*" which was my way of referring to subcutaneous skin.

Okay, so I went a bit far in saying that adipose (subcutaneous) tissue isn't metabolically active. But a comparison can't even be made between high levels of subcutaneous fat and very large developed skeletal muscles from bodybuilding. The latter requires so much more energy just to sustain itself, even in a resting state. Which is the complete opposite of blubber under the skin.


----------



## GreenAmine (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> post #66 of this thread


To be fair, you're simply not someone whose rambling and scientifically-inaccurate posts are read in entirety by certain people, myself included. So yes, I will miss certain tidbits of info. And this was a different post than when you incorrectly stated that adipose tissue is not metabolically active. The fact that you clarified later does not mean that the previous statement was incorrect. If you're going to argue anything even remotely scientific, then you need to be explicit and clear.



roidmedangerfield said:


> so I went a bit far


In other words, you were arguing something that you knew was incorrect?

I'm done with this conversation. If you ever need anything, tag me. But I'm done here.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

No, because I don't believe I'm incorrect. Blubber under the skin or subcutaneous fat is stored energy. 

If I'm wrong then how is subcutaneous fat metabolically active, especially in a rested state and in comparison to muscle which is metabolically active *in* a rested state?

Those here who fling ad hominem attacks and insults yet can't even bother to explain it or prove me wrong with facts don't look any smarter for doing so.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> No, because I don't believe I'm incorrect. Blubber under the skin or subcutaneous fat is stored energy.
> 
> If I'm wrong then how is subcutaneous fat metabolically active, especially in a rested state and in comparison to muscle which is metabolically active *in* a rested state?
> 
> Those here who fling ad hominem attacks and insults yet can't even bother to explain it or prove me wrong with facts don't look any smarter for doing so.


This could get semantic, but we can start with the fact that leptin production and regulation are largely governed by adipose tissue


----------



## crido887 (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> No, because I don't believe I'm incorrect. Blubber under the skin or subcutaneous fat is stored energy.
> 
> If I'm wrong then how is subcutaneous fat metabolically active, especially in a rested state and in comparison to muscle which is metabolically active *in* a rested state?
> 
> Those here who fling ad hominem attacks and insults yet can't even bother to explain it or prove me wrong with facts don't look any smarter for doing so.


are you trying to say subcutaneous bodyfat does not contribute to your resting metabolic rate?


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 7, 2022)

crido887 said:


> are you trying to say subcutaneous bodyfat does not contribute to your resting metabolic rate?


He doesn’t know what he’s trying to say. He will keep filling in his lack of actual knowledge with google as people keep proving him wrong and showing he’s a fucking moron.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

TODAY said:


> This could get semantic, but we can start with the fact that leptin production and regulation are largely governed by adipose tissue



I see. Well, then perhaps I shouldn't have used the term metabolically active. What I was trying to emphasize was the direct effects on the heart in relation to muscle and subcutaneous fat. The oxygen needed to sustain both, the energy needed to excrete waste products from both, etc. A 300lb lean muscular person with low body fat needs more oxygen to sustain himself than a 300lb obese person because subcutaneous fat doesn't need oxygen the way muscles do, especially just to sustain itself and in a rested state.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> He doesn’t know what he’s trying to say. He will keep filling in his lack of actual knowledge with google as people keep proving him wrong and showing he’s a fucking moron.



^ Case in point - Zer0 "skank of swole" can't be bothered to debate or provide facts. He's too busy chasing me around these threads to dislike everything I post here or provide insults.


----------



## RiR0 (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> ^ Case in point - Zer0 "skank of swole" can't be bothered to debate or provide facts. He's too busy chasing me around these threads to dislike everything I post here or provide insults.


Even your insults are shit. You are as well read and clever as a box of saw dust. You’re only worthy of mockery.


----------



## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Even your insults are shit. You are as well read and clever as a box of saw dust. You’re only worthy of mockery.



You call yourself a "sage." So in love with yourself and your supposed 'wisdom' and knowledge.

Yet nothing you post nearly anywhere here conveys any knowledge whatsoever. Just ad hominem attacks.

The fact that you're so focused on chasing me around everywhere says it all. I'm not impressed by you at all.


----------



## TODAY (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> I see. Well, then perhaps I shouldn't have used the term metabolically active. What I was trying to emphasize was the direct effects on the heart in relation to muscle and subcutaneous fat. The oxygen needed to sustain both, the energy needed to excrete waste products from both, etc. A 300lb lean muscular person with low body fat needs more oxygen to sustain himself than a 300lb obese person because subcutaneous fat doesn't need oxygen the way muscles do, especially just to sustain itself and in a rested state.


I'm still not entirely sure what point you're trying to make

Do you mean to compare the cardiovascular health of population of obese individuals to a population of 300lb lean bodybuilders on steroids?

Do you not see how many confounding variables there are here?

Or is this simply about the potential oxidative stress caused by lean vs. adipose tissue?


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## RiR0 (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> You call yourself a "sage." So in love with yourself and your supposed 'wisdom' and knowledge.
> 
> Yet nothing you post nearly anywhere here conveys any knowledge whatsoever. Just ad hominem attacks.
> 
> The fact that you're so focused on chasing me around everywhere says it all. I'm not impressed by you at all.


Oh funny you mention that. I never once called myself sage of swoll. The mods actually gave me that title 😉 nice try though

Lots of people here would highly disagree with you


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## CJ (Oct 7, 2022)

Is this still happening? 🤣🤣🤣


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

TODAY said:


> I'm still not entirely sure what point you're trying to make
> 
> Do you mean to compare the cardiovascular health of population of obese individuals to a population of 300lb lean bodybuilders on steroids?
> 
> ...


My mentioning of this wasn't even the point I was emphasizing when I said it. It only became one because a few people here scrutinized it. And here we go again about reducing what I said to "lean" tissue. I was talking about very large, unnaturally big muscles. I made that clear abundantly.


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## TODAY (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> My mentioning of this wasn't even the point I was emphasizing when I said it. It only became one because a few people here scrutinized it. And here we go again about reducing what I said to "lean" tissue. I was talking about very large, unnaturally big muscles. I made that clear abundantly.


So then what _was _the point?


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

TODAY said:


> So then what _was _the point?


You don't remember?


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> You call yourself a "sage." So in love with yourself and your supposed 'wisdom' and knowledge.
> 
> Yet nothing you post nearly anywhere here conveys any knowledge whatsoever. Just ad hominem attacks.
> 
> The fact that you're so focused on chasing me around everywhere says it all. I'm not impressed by you at all.


This dude wrote me a program that is 10x more effective than CD2 with a quarter of the volume 

I guess I’m dick ridding @RiR0 but bro has helped countless amount of member lose weight, gain muscle, optimize training than anyone else 

Stop being a pussy and taking his and @BigBaldBeardGuy guys mater of fact style of writing straight to the asshole and you might learn something


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> This dude wrote me a program that is 10x more effective than CD2 with a quarter of the volume
> 
> I guess I’m dick ridding @RiR0 but bro has helped countless amount of member lose weight, gain muscle, optimize training than anyone else



Really? If it's 10x more effective as you say then why are you doing Meadow's CD2 routine? 

How does one ride a needle, by the way. On second thought, don't answer. I don't wanna know.


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## RiR0 (Oct 7, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> This dude wrote me a program that is 10x more effective than CD2 with a quarter of the volume
> 
> I guess I’m dick ridding @RiR0 but bro has helped countless amount of member lose weight, gain muscle, optimize training than anyone else
> 
> Stop being a pussy and taking his and @BigBaldBeardGuy guys mater of fact style of writing straight to the asshole and you might learn something


Damn. You hit me in the feels buddy. Thank you man. I appreciate that


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Really? If it's 10x more effective as you say then why are you doing Meadow's CD2 routine?
> 
> How does one ride a needle, by the way. On second thought, don't answer. I don't wanna know.


Because I’m not a fucking quitter and see things through to the end.

Easily, grab it by the base and slam it home. Not all of us are size whites like you


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Oct 7, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Damn. You hit me in the feels buddy. Thank you man. I appreciate that


No problem brother your one of the most valuable members in the community. 💪


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## crido887 (Oct 7, 2022)

Incoming legendary thread


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> Because I’m not a fucking quitter and see things through to the end.
> 
> Easily, grab it by the base and slam it home. Not all of us are size whites like you



You sound like a pro!


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Oct 7, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> You sound like a pro!


I can suck my way up the corporate 🪜


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 7, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> I can suck my way up the corporate 🪜



You're gonna go places. You're gonna make it. I just know it.


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## Badleroybrown (Oct 7, 2022)

HOLY FUCK!!!! 
There is no winning with this dude @roidmedangerfield 

You obviously can not admit that some of the shit you said is wrong…

Just accept it and move on.

Everyone has been wrong once or twice.

I learned when I first joined not to speak on topics unless I absolutely know WTF I am talking about.

1. It gives bad information to maybe some new people that don’t know better.

2. Opens you up to be 
Ass Raped by more knowledgeable members..

Now as far as  @Riro goes..
He has helped me
Tremendously.. I would not have been able to change my body composition like I have..
Not only has it changed but it continues to..
My work yes… but his knowledge..

So I will leave in saying this…


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## Methyl mike (Oct 8, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Thanks for the response man. BBBG has me sold on soloing a Test only cycle considering the issues I've had the last 2 cycles.
> 
> If all goes well and my bloodwork, which i have learned is a must, looks good I may look at adding Eq or DHB on cycle further down the road. I've done a good bit of reading since posting and it sounds like a lot of people have success with less side effects than Tren using Eq and DHB. I definitely want more time before deciding if DHB is an option. Seems like there's not a ton of experience out there with it.


Well you make it hard on us to provide accurate data by giving so little to work with. Your goal is to "recapture youth" or something, which is entirely subjective and on top of that we don't even have pictures to judge, now vs 20 years ago for example would be great. Then you are worried about side effects but do not offer anything that is not entirely subjective to go by, hell even swollen angles could be in your mind. BBBG is being gracious and showing a lot of patience to work with you and not many who actually possess prerequisite knowledge would bother doing so. 

Would I recommend a test only cycle to achieve your goals? I would advise nothing without knowing more concrete than your thoughts and feelings. As a chemist surely you can appreciate that.


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## Methyl mike (Oct 8, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> @BigBaldBeardGuy I did find a local lab that does private blood work. It was between $400-$500 for Test lab work with some options to add some other tests.
> 
> Is this pretty reasonable or normal price wise?


I just read BBBG is pretty.critical of the mail in lab tests so i cannot offer much. I got mine done thru my PCP, but idk what your situation is.


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## Methyl mike (Oct 8, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You haven’t gotten bloods done in almost a year and you’re telling someone to do it if they’re halfway intelligent. Interesting.
> Useless to the community? I literally just wrote a guy a whole training routine.
> What have you provided?


Talk to me when (if ever) you manage to weigh more than 220lbs. Stop criticizing me, I hate to put you on ignore but you are really making it appealing.


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## Methyl mike (Oct 8, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> This forum sure likes to bash on the guys that know what they’re fucking talking about. @RiR0 “useless to the community”. Well fuck me. That’s an interesting point of view.


His modern attitude is his only major shortcoming.


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## Methyl mike (Oct 8, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> You call yourself a "sage." So in love with yourself and your supposed 'wisdom' and knowledge.
> 
> Yet nothing you post nearly anywhere here conveys any knowledge whatsoever. Just ad hominem attacks.
> 
> The fact that you're so focused on chasing me around everywhere says it all. I'm not impressed by you at all.


He is knowledgeable but recently must have upped the dose or something. He wasn't always a huge asshole


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 8, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> This dude wrote me a program that is 10x more effective than CD2 with a quarter of the volume
> 
> I guess I’m dick ridding @RiR0 but bro has helped countless amount of member lose weight, gain muscle, optimize training than anyone else
> 
> Stop being a pussy and taking his and @BigBaldBeardGuy guys mater of fact style of writing straight to the asshole and you might learn something



Correct me if I'm wrong on this. But I found your journal thread on this site logging your workouts. I saw you logging information about doing Creeping Death earlier this year. And as the entries progressed you were six weeks into Creeping Death II. And at that time you put that program on pause to start Zer0's training program that you said he provided for you. And it appears you only did his program for three days and then went back to Creeping Death II. Did I get that right? 

And if I'm correct, you are making the claim that Zer0's program is 10x better after executing it for a mere three days?


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## Novaflex (Oct 9, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> Thanks for the read and info.
> 
> Diet: At the beginning of my last cycle my diet goals were 3500 Calories/day, 386 g carbs, 268 g protein and 97 g fat. Everything went very good. I shot up from 230 to 245 by week 5. However, at week 8 I completely lost my appetite and this continued until I stopped at week 12. I went from 245 back to 230, but I kept my muscle mass that I gained weeks 1-5 and just got extremely ripped. i also continued to gain strength during this time. I was only eating 2000-2500 calories a day by force feeding myself so my body melted the fat off to makeup for the caloric deficit. Does longterm use of Tren or Anavar cause appetite suppression?
> 
> ...


Jesus fuck. That’s so much junk volume bro. You could get the same reults, or better, with half the volume—good form, correct weight choice, and pushing to just below failure.

PS: Diet is king. Food makes or breaks your physique.


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## RiR0 (Oct 9, 2022)

Methyl mike said:


> He is knowledgeable but recently must have upped the dose or something. He wasn't always a huge asshole


I’m the same as always you’re just a sensitive methhead junkie


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 10, 2022)

Novaflex said:


> Jesus fuck. That’s so much junk volume bro. You could get the same reults, or better, with half the volume—good form, correct weight choice, and pushing to just below failure.
> 
> PS: Diet is king. Food makes or breaks your physique.


Thanks man....that's what I've come to realize as I've been reading more on the diet and excercise forums. I should have started with intro forum, then diet and excercise  before asking gear questions. Noob learning here lol.


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## denicnut (Oct 10, 2022)

snake said:


> First post gear talk.


thats all you say loser maybe people know sone shit otger than drugs before they come…mine was about dhb recipe n you got shit to talj cuz youre kn too much tren and probably dont even compete…im not some 20yr old yuh clown


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## RiR0 (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> thats all you say loser maybe people know sone shit otger than drugs before they come…mine was about dhb recipe n you got shit to talj cuz youre kn too much tren and probably dont even compete…im not some 20yr old yuh clown


You’re talking shit to snake? Wow. 
I wanna see some pics since you compete


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## denicnut (Oct 10, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You’re talking shit to snake? Wow.
> I wanna see some pics since you compete


i havent since i played ice hockey in college about 13 years ago i gave a little intro and had some homebrew questions about dhb and the sane guys got something to say he probably all fucking trenned out…i came to get info on something specific wtf does anyone care what a first or 2nd post is about…unless its some retart 20yr old who is about to fuck thier body up…just help why talk shit that’s all


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## snake (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> thats all you say loser maybe people know sone shit otger than drugs before they come…mine was about dhb recipe n you got shit to talj cuz youre kn too much tren and probably dont even compete…im not some 20yr old yuh clown


I have no idea of your age but the clown part does fit. I don't entertain cock fights, but my reputation stands strong. 

I'm also no grammar student but for the love of God, you're hard to follow.


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## snake (Oct 10, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> You’re talking shit to snake? Wow.
> I wanna see some pics since you compete


Yeah that's not happening. Or maybe he needs time to google a pic.


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## denicnut (Oct 10, 2022)

snake said:


> Yeah that's not happening. Or maybe he needs time to google a pic.


you on the west coast of florida by any chance bro?


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## snake (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> you on the west coast of florida by any chance bro?


Tread lightly...

RiRO asked for a pic. Put up and shut us up.


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## denicnut (Oct 10, 2022)

snake said:


> Tread lightly...


yea ok


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## snake (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> yea ok


You could put it all to bed by showing us we are wrong. I'd be the first to admit a man has put his time in the gym.


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## CJ (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> you on the west coast of florida by any chance bro?


Calm down. You look foolish right now.


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## denicnut (Oct 10, 2022)

snake said:


> You could put it all to bed by showing us we are wrong. I'd be the first to admit a man has put his time in the gym.


i agree diet and training obviously but if someone comes for some info that someone can give from experience if it has to do with drugs why act like a blowjob and not just help…and i wasn’t being threatening im opening a gym near st pete and im trying to make a hardcore bodybuilding gym like strong and shapely where i grew up in rutherford nj…if you were around here you could come down i dont need to post pics or find pics on google bud you guys take it easy


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## TODAY (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> i agree diet and training obviously but if someone comes for some info that someone can give from experience if it has to do with drugs why act like a blowjob and not just help…and i wasn’t being threatening im opening a gym near st pete and im trying to make a hardcore bodybuilding gym like strong and shapely where i grew up in rutherford nj…if you were around here you could come down i dont need to post pics or find pics on google bud you guys take it easy


No.


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## denicnut (Oct 10, 2022)

TODAY said:


> No.


good you hide behind your keyboard too


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## snake (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> i agree diet and training obviously but if someone comes for some info that someone can give from experience if it has to do with drugs why act like a blowjob and not just help…and i wasn’t being threatening im opening a gym near st pete and im trying to make a hardcore bodybuilding gym like strong and shapely where i grew up in rutherford nj…if you were around here you could come down i dont need to post pics or find pics on google bud you guys take it easy


What would you do if someone walked into the gym you opened and started asking questions about gear right off the bat? You get my point?

And what do you have against blowjobs; I kind of enjoy them.

If you're going to own a gym and want it to be successful, you should honestly work on your people skills. That's not a dig, it's just some good advice.


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## RiR0 (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> i agree diet and training obviously but if someone comes for some info that someone can give from experience if it has to do with drugs why act like a blowjob and not just help…and i wasn’t being threatening im opening a gym near st pete and im trying to make a hardcore bodybuilding gym like strong and shapely where i grew up in rutherford nj…if you were around here you could come down i dont need to post pics or find pics on google bud you guys take it easy


So you’re planning on opening a gym and here’s the information and in another post you allude to a larger product line so selling gear. Are you truly that dumb


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## TODAY (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> good you hide behind your keyboard too


My keyboard isn't anywhere near large enough for me to hide behind.

I am very large, you see

In fact, I doubt that there's a keyboard on earth that could fully obscure my considerable mass.


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## denicnut (Oct 10, 2022)

TODAY said:


> My keyboard isn't anywhere near large enough for me to hide behind.
> 
> I am very large, you see
> 
> In fact, I doubt that there's a keyboard on earth that could fully obscure my considerable mass.


arite bro youre still going come on man im by st pete lmk cuz if you’re in my area im in tampa a lot too and sometimes sarasota


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## TODAY (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> arite bro youre still going come on man im by st pete lmk cuz if you’re in my area im in tampa a lot too and sometimes sarasota


You gonna buy me a steak dinner or what

I'm not into quick hookups


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## TODAY (Oct 10, 2022)

Actually, wait


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## TODAY (Oct 10, 2022)

Are you extremely hot


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> thats all you say loser maybe people know sone shit otger than drugs before they come…mine was about dhb recipe n you got shit to talj cuz youre kn too much tren and probably dont even compete…im not some 20yr old yuh clown


How’d you manage to quote and cross into a different thread? This was in your intro thread.


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## crido887 (Oct 10, 2022)

denicnut said:


> thats all you say loser maybe people know sone shit otger than drugs before they come…mine was about dhb recipe n you got shit to talj cuz youre kn too much tren and probably dont even compete…im not some 20yr old yuh clown


Are you a 21 year old clown?


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## eazy (Oct 15, 2022)

How are things?

You get your labs?

You finish that big ass book?

You finish the inventory? 

Update please.


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## Thebiggestdumbass (Oct 15, 2022)

roidmedangerfield said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong on this. But I found your journal thread on this site logging your workouts. I saw you logging information about doing Creeping Death earlier this year. And as the entries progressed you were six weeks into Creeping Death II. And at that time you put that program on pause to start Zer0's training program that you said he provided for you. And it appears you only did his program for three days and then went back to Creeping Death II. Did I get that right?
> 
> And if I'm correct, you are making the claim that Zer0's program is 10x better after executing it for a mere three days?


I have a training partner who wanted to complete creeping death II , I was doing RIROs program any time he missed a day.

I can claim his program is 10x better because I wasn’t doing 100+ reps to stimulate muscles like creeping death had me doing.


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## ChemActinide13 (Oct 15, 2022)

eazy said:


> How are things? _Good at the moment. I'm 2 weeks post PCT and didn't have a terrible crash. I can feel my natural test starting to come back._
> 
> You get your labs? _Not yet. I did find out I had an annual well visit in May, which was well off of any cycles. So, the results of that bloodowork should be a good baseline. I'm planning to ask my doctor for a hormone test in the coming weeks. My only question is when would be a good point to get it checked since I'm 6 weeks off of cycle and 2 weeks off PCT?_
> 
> You finish that big ass book? Which one??? The places to pee??? Lol....or all of the forum posts on Diet and workouts. If it's the latter, I haven't finished, but I have learned a ton. I've been watching my macros based on  @RiR0's sticky. I'm struggling some with the fat portion of the macros. I've got mine set at 15% of my total calories. Is that a good number and I just need to watch my fat intake more carefully? On the workouts, I've got to stop the junk volume. Stop being lazy and push sets to failure around rep 7 or 8.







eazy said:


> You finish the inventory? Inventory??? I'm lost on this one.





eazy said:


> Update please.


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## eazy (Oct 15, 2022)

On the book I had the wrong person. I thought he recommended it to you. The inventory is the first assignment in the book.


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## roidmedangerfield (Oct 16, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> I have a training partner who wanted to complete creeping death II , I was doing RIROs program any time he missed a day.
> 
> I can claim his program is 10x better because I wasn’t doing 100+ reps to stimulate muscles like creeping death had me doing.



His program is "10x better" than Creeping Death II because you're spending less time in the gym? To make the claim that a program is so much better than another and for that statement to actually be valid you'd have to be talking about the results you're getting. Which you can't even vouch for since you're doing one program one day versus another training approach the next; depending whether or not you have your training partner around.

Get back to us when you can dedicate a good twelve weeks or so using his program and let us know about your gains.


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## Robdjents (Oct 16, 2022)

Reading this thread was insanely exhausting…


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## Adrenolin (Oct 16, 2022)

denicnut said:


> you on the west coast of florida by any chance bro?


Not even close he's a few miles from me in bumfuck nowhere


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## Big-paul (Oct 20, 2022)

ChemActinide13 said:


> 1st post here, but I've been data collecting from the forums for about a year.
> 
> I'm currently 40 and planning my 3rd cycle. I'm 6' 2" 230 with an athletic build. I did my 1st ever cycle this year with the goal of dumping the dad bod (4 kids and 15 years of no excercise) and getting back into working out regularly.
> 
> ...


This is why people  who know better suggest 400-500mg test only for the first few cycles.


----------

