# Fat intake



## strongassnurse (Sep 12, 2018)

So whats the deal with not having fats and carbs in the same meal? Obviously fat slows absorption/digestion of everything it is eaten with which is why I have moved fats as far as possible from my training, but as far as the whole "insulin pushes all nutrients into cells, so you don't want to eat fats and carbs in the same meal because then the fats will get shuttled right into the cells which will cause more fat gain as compared to muscle gain." What is this based off of? Is it not more so the ratio of protien, fats, and carbs that effects body composition? Either way the fat will make it's way into the cells, whether it's sooner or later right? So if this even does happen, how does that make a difference? What if your eating a very low GI carb and a fat at the same time? Then you wouldn't theoretically have much of any insulin spike anyways, so would the fat still need to be eaten seperately from the carb source? I'm honestly just thinking out loud here, because I'm bored and don't have anybody to talk to currently.. lol Somebody make me believe!


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## MrRippedZilla (Sep 12, 2018)

It's old school broscience that's complete bullshit so no need for anyone to "make you believe" (unless they want to sell you something).


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## strongassnurse (Sep 13, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> It's old school broscience that's complete bullshit so no need for anyone to "make you believe" (unless they want to sell you something).


Fair enough, I had not heard that anywhere but on this board, and have had several nutrition courses as well as reading quite a few books on nutrition related to sports performance and body composition (not that that makes me an expert at all, but I have a base knowledge at least), which is why I asked on here, but I am always open to learn if it did have some sort of backing to it. Thanks man!


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## MrRippedZilla (Sep 13, 2018)

strongassnurse said:


> Fair enough, I had not heard that anywhere but on this board, and have had several nutrition courses as well as reading quite a few books on nutrition related to sports performance and body composition (not that that makes me an expert at all, but I have a base knowledge at least), which is why I asked on here, but I am always open to learn if it did have some sort of backing to it. Thanks man!


You've taken nutrition courses & read books telling you not to mix fats & carbs together? Really? Can you please list them? Or at least find some references to support that statement? 

The burden of proof is on those making the statement so its up to those resources to actually support their claims. I'll of course respond in kind once I've seen this evidence


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## Spongy (Sep 13, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> You've taken nutrition courses & read books telling you not to mix fats & carbs together? Really? Can you please list them? Or at least find some references to support that statement?
> 
> The burden of proof is on those making the statement so its up to those resources to actually support their claims. I'll of course respond in kind once I've seen this evidence



I think he is saying he has never seen not to mix carbs and fats anywhere but on this forum.  Probably because it is a method that I've posted about and I have clients separate fat and carb meals.  

There is no hard science behind it, it is 100% bro science but clients are successful using that method.

I have no references or studies to show, I just know that my physique improved dramatically when I began separating carbs and fats and my clients have success with it.


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## Viduus (Sep 13, 2018)

I’ve seen non-scientific references to it both ways. Personally it’s been on my mind because I’ve successfully used Spongy’s diet. After going back and forth I’ve landed on this analysis.

Over the long run Zilla is right. Plus in my experience with him he tends to lean towards things that actually make a difference and doesn’t get bogged down in the minute academic side of things. I’ve tried and his first point is generally “theoritically yes but it doesn’t really matter”. (Paraphrasing)

In the short run I’ve seen a lot of prep coaches give sponge’s advice. In the week or two leading up to a show it might make a difference since you might not have time for your body to release the stored fat and burn it. I’ve also seen a lot of insulin protocols highly recommend not consuming meals with fat after taking insulin. Again bro-science but it’s pretty consistently stated.

Where the line is between short term and long term is.... who knows. How long are you delaying burning that fat? Is the difference tangible or negligible? I’m still trying to make my mind up. Hope this didn’t help!


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## MrRippedZilla (Sep 13, 2018)

Spongy said:


> I think he is saying he has never seen not to mix carbs and fats anywhere but on this forum. Probably because it is a method that I've posted about and I have clients separate fat and carb meals.
> There is no hard science behind it, it is 100% bro science but clients are successful using that method.
> I have no references or studies to show, I just know that my physique improved dramatically when I began separating carbs and fats and my clients have success with it.


If this is true then, OP, you can ignore my previous post. 

I don't want to argue against you man; not a hill for me to die on. If it helps you & your clients get results then great - that's all that really matters


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## PillarofBalance (Sep 13, 2018)

That would preclude the ingestion of poptarts 

**** that noise brah


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## Spongy (Sep 13, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> If this is true then, OP, you can ignore my previous post.
> 
> I don't want to argue against you man; not a hill for me to die on. If it helps you & your clients get results then great - that's all that really matters



True story, but dont stop questioning and calling out the BS, even if its mine lol.  I'm glad we have someone on the board that has a nack for scholarly research.  I'm certainly not infallible when it comes to this stuff.  Lots of trial and error through the years and will be the first to admit I dont have any peer reviewed research to back up some of the dieting techniques I employ.


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## Seeker (Sep 13, 2018)

John Berardi, PhD was the man who pretty much pioneered the so called balanced non-mixing approach diet where you eat pretty much an equal amount of fats and carbs but avoiding eating them in the same meal. His reccomadation was eating your protein and carbs earlier  in the day  or around workout times and eating your protein and fats later in the day. I've read his stuff on scribd. He's a pretty well established guy. I've enjoyed reading some of his articles.


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## strongassnurse (Sep 13, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> You've taken nutrition courses & read books telling you not to mix fats & carbs together? Really? Can you please list them? Or at least find some references to support that statement?
> 
> The burden of proof is on those making the statement so its up to those resources to actually support their claims. I'll of course respond in kind once I've seen this evidence



What spongy said.


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## strongassnurse (Sep 13, 2018)

Seeker said:


> John Berardi, PhD was the man who pretty much pioneered the so called balanced non-mixing approach diet where you eat pretty much an equal amount of fats and carbs but avoiding eating them in the same meal. His reccomadation was eating your protein and carbs earlier  in the day  or around workout times and eating your protein and fats later in the day. I've read his stuff on scribd. He's a pretty well established guy. I've enjoyed reading some of his articles.



I'll have to look him up!


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## Jin (Sep 13, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> It's old school broscience that's complete bullshit so no need for anyone to "make you believe" (unless they want to sell you something).



What about avoiding fats after injecting insulin?


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## Viduus (Sep 13, 2018)

strongassnurse said:


> What spongy said.



Not to pick a fight between parents but you shouldn’t blow of Zilla’s response. He’s very well educated and the science/research is behind him.

Two different viewpoints and either may be correct. Science might be missing some yet to be found factor or Spongy may be praying to a false god. 

Do what you feel comfortable with but be aware it might not be needed. (I’m still splitting mine but obviously continuously questioning it)


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## Spongy (Sep 13, 2018)

Viduus said:


> Not to pick a fight between parents but you shouldn’t blow of Zilla’s response. He’s very well educated and the science/research is behind him.
> 
> Two different viewpoints and either may be correct. Science might be missing some yet to be found factor or Spongy may be praying to a false god.
> 
> Do what you feel comfortable with but be aware it might not be needed. (I’m still splitting mine but obviously continuously questioning it)



I think what he was saying was he was in agreement that he had never heard about not mixing carbs and fats in the same meal til he came here, not that he was agreeing with my methods lol.


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## MrRippedZilla (Sep 13, 2018)

Way too many questions in this thread. I'm uploading an audio clip in the science section within an hour or 2 so tune in for more in-depth talk. I'll add a reference list along with it for those wishing to dig into this stuff themselves.

For the OP, this review paper is all you need to understand the irrelevance of nutrient timing in general, no need to avoid mixing fats/carbs in the same meal and no need to avoid fats post-wo unless you're an endurance athlete training 2x day with depleting workouts. This paper, mentioned in that review, is particularly relevant (165g of extra fat post-wo after glycogen depleting endurance work = no difference in glycogen levels 24hrs post compared to low fat group).


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## strongassnurse (Sep 13, 2018)

Viduus said:


> Not to pick a fight between parents but you shouldn’t blow of Zilla’s response. He’s very well educated and the science/research is behind him.
> 
> Two different viewpoints and either may be correct. Science might be missing some yet to be found factor or Spongy may be praying to a false god.
> 
> Do what you feel comfortable with but be aware it might not be needed. (I’m still splitting mine but obviously continuously questioning it)


To clear things up I SAN have never heard of NOT mixing carbs and fats throughout the day except for around the workout, anywhere besides this board. Which is why my original post was questioning the practice.


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## strongassnurse (Sep 13, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Way too many questions in this thread. I'm uploading an audio clip in the science section within an hour or 2 so tune in for more in-depth talk. I'll add a reference list along with it for those wishing to dig into this stuff themselves.
> 
> For the OP, this review paper is all you need to understand the irrelevance of nutrient timing in general, no need to avoid mixing fats/carbs in the same meal and no need to avoid fats post-wo unless you're an endurance athlete training 2x day with depleting workouts. This paper, mentioned in that review, is particularly relevant (165g of extra fat post-wo after glycogen depleting endurance work = no difference in glycogen levels 24hrs post compared to low fat group).


Off to work but ill read these later. I actually am training 2x a day as much as possible right now, which is the biggest reason i'm interested in the topic. thanks for the info.


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