# Trt age..



## jyoung8j

When do you guys see or kno of most going on a trt dose.. I'm 35 and wondering if I should.. hmm


----------



## DocDePanda187123

It varies drastically bro. I know someone who went on at age 12 and people in their 60s and up who've never considered TRT. It all depends on what your goals are and where you are hormonal wise. No doctor will script TRT if you have good test levels but anti-aging clinics are more lenient then endos and urologists. My recommendation to you would be to get blood work (CBC, metabolic panel, LH, FSH, total test, E2, and free test). No way to know if you need it or not without knowing where you stand now. Are you feeling any symptoms of low testosterone?


----------



## jyoung8j

Idk actually..lol just feel so much better when I'm on test


----------



## DocDePanda187123

jyoung8j said:


> Idk actually..lol just feel so much better when I'm on test



Hahaha. Unfortunately a doctor won't script TRT for that but a comprehensive panel is as cheap as ~$50 so why not get the blood work and check anyway?


----------



## RustyShackelford

I started trt at 35.


----------



## jyoung8j

Yea I've only done those on a cycle.. found a golden number I stick to..


----------



## Joliver

I am tired of worrying about sources, LE, and a myriad of other BS that I wont have to after TRT.  I am going to stock pile and go on TRT....then blast and cruise...ad infinitum.


----------



## AlphaD

I agree with doc about getting bloodwork on this issue.  35 still could be consider young.  But then you have to take in account the individuals history.  In this case with you jyoung, you have ran multiple cycles, right?  Each time you suppress you system, you may never return to the level you were at assuming you had a decent Test Level to begin with.  Many of us realize we will all be faced with this exact question someday........hell my 1st cycle was at 39, and I know someday I will be thinking about Trt and I am alright with that.


----------



## 46and2

I'm 35 and my doctor said I am at the younger end of the range he likes to treat.


----------



## Azog

I highly doubt I'll make it to 30. Blast and cruise is too damn tempting.


----------



## Hero Swole

Azog said:


> I highly doubt I'll make it to 30. Blast and cruise is too damn tempting.



Its not all that. And its not as healthy as people think (in the long run). But some of just going to do it no matter what. And the older cats aint got no choice.


----------



## RedLang

jy mate, i have been on trt since 26. Never looked back. I will be on until i die.

It is a serious decision mate. If you dont need too i wouldnt do it.

One thing in the future that may be an issue is children. I raised this with my Dr before going this route and he seems to think it wont be an issue with appropriate medications. We will see.


----------



## j2048b

Hell yeah bro! I started 3-5 yrs ago, im mid upper 30's, perfect time to at least get that script!


----------



## jyoung8j

Yea I've ran quite a few cycles.. a lot in last yr.. ill have to get tested when I'm off for good while.. hmm I'm not worried bout kids I'm fixed and my girl just had hysterectomy due to cancer so no kiddos for us..


----------



## FreeBirdSam

I've been blasting/cruising for almost a couple years now..  more "blast" than cruise and most of it has been to maintain my bodyweight.  When you have an autoimmune disease like mine (UC) I tend to stay healthier with higher doses...   now what that's doing long term to my health I'm sure isn't pretty, but i'd rather have ten more years in my life of healthy living than be sick for 40 years.   Some of you might think that's selfish to my family, but you have no idea what AAS has done for my life, I wouldn't be here to write this if it weren't for gear.

All that aside, injections get old, money does eventually get tight.  so plan ahead and think it over real well.  a couple years into it is too late to turn back.

good luck my brother.


----------



## amore169

I started when I was around 32-33, my test levels were around 193.


----------



## TR90125

I started at 42 and I am now 45.  My problem though is I did a blast a while back and felt significantly better, kind of how you would expect to feel on TRT.   For a long time on my 150mg weekly dose I just didn't feel driven, really kind of felt like I had low T, despite blood work showing otherwise.  My doc never worried about my free test, not sure if that was part of the issue.  Right now I am "cruising" on 500mg a week and 50mg of Proviron daily and feel completely checked in.  I am going to get a full blood panel done in a week or two, not sure how to address this long term though.


----------



## jyoung8j

When I'm done with this cycle I'm going to get a panel done seems a lot of ppl think I'm to young..


----------



## ImDennis

i went on trt when i turned 20.... coulda probably been on it alot sooner and saved myself alot of time that was wasted in the gym


----------



## NavyChief

You hit a key point about kids. Since that is not an issue then age isn't much of a factor past mid 30's to early 40's for starting. Im 44 been on trt for 3 years.  A cpl things to think of. Guys like us don't just do trt. we blast and cruise.  So if your doc is monitoring you frequently and your test goes thru the roof they stop your script or at least do not give another refill until your levels are below 1200-1600 depending on the dr and what your insurance will pay for with this. Mine will pay my scripts upto 1600 test level.  if your paying cash then just buy your ug gear and get blood work done as often as you feel needed or every 8 weeks there abouts.   Enjoy the fact that you can cruise nicely with a higher test level from now on blast when your wanting to in between.


----------



## NbleSavage

Started TRT in my late 30s. Was blasting and cruising by 40. Never felt better / stronger in my entire life. 

Authors Note: my kids are grown and I'm well aware of the risks of blasting and cruising. Don't try this if you are still considering a family or have test levels in the mid to upper mid range as a natty IMO.


----------



## jyoung8j

Yea sounds like just need to test my levels.. my girl thinks when I'm off I'm not nearly as spunky as when on.. lol


----------



## ImDennis

jyoung8j said:


> Yea sounds like just need to test my levels.. my girl thinks when I'm off I'm not nearly as spunky as when on.. lol



i think this is normal though.... when ur on your test levels are through the roof... try cruising at 200mg for a bit and see how that goes


----------



## jyoung8j

Yea I've gotten pretty bad over the yrs thts y I was wondering.. when off I'd rather sleep then ****.. lol unless drunk then I'm a porno star.. lol


----------



## ImDennis

your best answer is to get your levels checked, when i got diagnosed with low t, i thought i was fine even with 159ng/dl, had no problems getting it up or anything not much has really changed between me on low t, doc prescribed trt and self prescribed trt.... sex drive wise


----------



## jyoung8j

Yea ill have to look into in about 18wks lol


----------



## transcend2007

Hey JY this is an interesting post for sure and lots of good advice from the brothers here.

May I suggest waiting to think about this until your cycle is over and you've completed pct.  The truth is while on cycle our (your) very thought process may be skewed towards a more aggressive regimen.  You may approach this topic very differently once your cycle is complete and your pct are completed.

If your natural levels come back to a reasonable level it is difficult to argue that natural is better.  At 47 and having been on hrt over 3 years now I find myself constantly considering pushing the envelope further.  The reality is we get bigger and stronger through the use of these drugs.  It's nearly impossible to not have a more is better attitude when approaching the subject.  That is until we consider the long term effects and balance that with the immediate gratification of today's results.

None of us should be kidding ourselves.  It is very likely that hrt/trt drug use will have health implications later our lives.  When considering these topics I believe it's best to have long term outlook and when I do that I normally come to the conclusion that less is best.

Of course, we must all choose what's best for our individual situation.  My only point is for you to carefully consider the longer term aspects of your decision being that you are only 35 years old today with 50+ years left to go on your journey.


----------



## jyoung8j

50+ yrs!!! **** I hope not lol.. good points.. I plan on getting tested once off this run after pct and see where my natural test sits at..


----------



## powermaster

As stated only blood test would really tell me if trt is for me.


----------



## Big Worm

I will always use test even if it was guaranteed that I'd have a shorter life.  Ill take 20 years of feeling how I want over 40 years of feeling like shit.


----------



## jyoung8j

Yea I def feel so much better on it but dnt wanna **** myself up.. but I'm sure cycles back to back isn't helping lol


----------



## Bullseye Forever

I was 40 when I started TRT I should've started a few years earlier prolly around 37 is when I should've really started.but in my case but when I dd start it did give me energy and make me feel 20ish again and helped my libido etc,it never solved my depression/anxiety stuff,and it doesn't matter how much I take in cycle I still have my other symptoms.
I pray it always helps you brother!!!! It's God sent for sure!!


----------



## jennerrator

This is a great article...............

Testosterone Week: What’s a “Normal” Testosterone Level and How to Measure Your T


Welcome back to Testosterone Week! If you’re just joining us, I recommend checking out our two previous posts in the series: the benefits of testosterone and a short primer on how T is made.

Today we’ll be taking a look at what’s considered a normal testosterone level and how you can get your testosterone levels tested. As I began researching testosterone levels and hormone testing for this series, I quickly learned that there’s a lot of conflicting and confusing information out there — some websites will say that “X” is a normal testosterone level, while another website says “Y” is the ideal range. Even medical labs give conflicting numbers on what’s a normal testosterone level.

Why so much confusion?

The problem is that there hasn’t been much standardization in hormone testing, particularly regarding T levels. Different labs use different methods (and measurements), which has only created confusion among consumers and even family doctors about what testosterone level results even mean.

Hopefully, the current state of confusion will soon change. The Center for Disease Control here in the U.S. started a project in 2010 to get labs to agree on standard hormone testing procedures. It’s slowly gaining ground, but not every lab has signed on.

I also learned that the bottom range of what’s considered “normal” by many doctors is actually woefully underestimated. Doctors are telling men who come to them with symptoms of low testosterone, “Well, you’re barely within normal range, but it’s still normal, so… you’re fine!”

No, Dr. Everything’s-A-Okay. It’s not fine.

I hope in this post I can clarify some of the confusion surrounding testosterone levels and hormone tests. I’ll be straight with you. This stuff is super confusing. I’ve done my best to synthesize all the disparate info out there into an easy-to-read format for the layman and have sought to create the most accessible resource on the web. But, I’m not a scientist or doctor, and may have gotten a few things wrong. If any of you professional endocrinologists see an error, I welcome your corrections.
Total and Free Testosterone Levels

Before we begin, I want to reiterate the fact that there are three different types of testosterone floating in your body: free testosterone, SHBG-bound testosterone, and albumin-bound testosterone. When you get tested, there are two tests you can get: total testosterone and free testosterone.

Total testosterone is the total amount of T floating in your blood at the time of the test: free, SHBG-bound, and albumin-bound combined. Total testosterone is typically measured in ng/dl, or nanograms per decilitre.

Free testosterone is the measurement of — you got it — free testosterone (which often includes albumin-bound testosterone as well because it can easily convert to free T). Free T is typically measured in picograms per milliliter. As we’ll discuss later in this post, because free testosterone makes up such a tiny, tiny percentage of your total T, it’s really hard to measure accurately. So, when you see research on normal testosterone levels, it usually focuses on total testosterone. Consequently, most of the numbers in this post will be about total T levels. With that said, I do include some references to research that indicates what average and optimal free testosterone levels are.
What’s a “Normal” Testosterone Level?

When you go to get tested for testosterone, the lab will often show you what’s considered the “normal” range among patients who have tested with that particular lab. It’s called the “reference range.”

For example, LabCorp (the lab I used to test my T levels here in Tulsa, OK) shows a reference range of 348 – 1197 ng/dl (nanograms per decilitre) for total testosterone levels. According to this reference range, my total testosterone level of 383 ng/dl at the beginning of my experiment would mean my total T levels were — barely  — within the normal range.

Here’s the problem.

That reference range consists of a wide variety of men who tested with LabCorp: 80-year-old men and 20-year-old men; obese men and super fit men; men with pituitary gland problems and men with glands that work like champs.

Sure, my 383 ng/dl was considered normal, but normal compared to whom? An 80-year-old man with Type 2 diabetes?

The fact that reference ranges don’t break patients down by age or health status explains why a 30-year-old man can go to his doctor with the symptoms of low T, only to be told that his T levels are fine because they’re within the “normal” range. If you’re 30 (or even 50), but have the same testosterone level as an 8o-year-old, diabetic man, your doc may say you’re okay, but you’re still not going to feel good. Plain and simple.

What’s interesting is that for many years, the bottom number of the reference range for T levels at many medical labs was much lower. For example, up until last year, LabCorp’s reference range for testosterone was 249-836 ng/dl. You could have had a testosterone level of 250 (which is super low) and still be told by your doctor that you were normal.

All this is to say that the “normal” levels put out there by doctors and labs aren’t all that useful.

Average Testosterone Levels by Age

When determining what’s considered a normal testosterone level, it’s best to look at what the reference range is for men your age. Researchers have known for years that T levels typically drop by about 1% every year after you hit your mid-30s. So if you’re 35, comparing yourself to a bunch of 80-year-old men isn’t very useful because they likely have really low T levels.

Unfortunately, many labs don’t break down reference ranges by age. However, studies have been done in which researchers do just that. Below, I include the results from two such studies.
Measurements in Conventional Units (ng/dl), SHBG in (nmol/L)
Age 	   # Subjects 	Total Test. 	 Stand .Dev. 	Free Test. 	Stand. Dev.  SHBG   Stand.Dev.
25-34 	45 	         617 	             170 	           12.3 	     2.8 	  35.5 	8.8
35-44 	22 	         668 	             212 	           10.3 	     1.2 	  40.1 	7.9
45-54 	23 	         606 	             213 	            9.1 	     2.2 	  44.6 	8.2
55-64 	43 	         562 	             195 	            8.3 	     2.1 	  45.5 	8.8
65-74 	47 	         524 	             197 	            6.9 	     2.3 	  48.7 	14.2
75-84 	48 	         471 	             169 	            6.0 	     2.3 	  51.0 	22.7
85-100 	21 	         376 	             134 	            5.4 	     2.3 	  65.9 	22.8

The above chart groups men into seven ten-year age increments. It’s based on results from this 1996 study. According to this chart, my T level at the beginning of the experiment (383 ng/dl) was closer to the average of an 85-100-year-old man. Yikes! This chart also lists the average free testosterone levels of the subjects. My beginning free testosterone was below the average of men my age and my end level was above average.

In a study done that same year by another team of researchers, they produced the following chart of testosterone levels broken down by age:
Measurements in Conventional Units (ng/dl) (source)
Age 	Number of Subjects 	Mean Total Test 	Stand. Dev.   Median Total Test 	5th %   10th % 	95th %
<25 	        125 	                        692 	             158 	           697 	        408 	    468 	 956
25-29 	354 	                        669 	             206 	           637 	        388 	    438 	1005
30-34 	330 	                        621 	             194 	           597 	        348 	     388 	 975
35-39 	212 	                        597 	             189 	           567 	        329 	     388 	 945
40-44 	148 	                        597 	             198 	           597 	        319 	     378 	 936
45-49 	154 	                        546 	             163 	           527 	        329 	     358 	 846
50-54 	164 	                        544 	             187 	           518 	        289 	     348 	 936
55-59 	155 	                        552 	             174 	           547 	        319 	     338 	 866

While this chart doesn’t show average free testosterone levels, I like the fact that it shows the T levels of men in the bottom five and ten percentiles as well as the T levels of the men in the top 95%. You can see how you compare to men with the lowest and highest T levels.

According to this chart, my beginning T level (383 ng/dl) was near the bottom 5% and 10% across all age groups. Even for 55-59-year-old men. (Boo!)

My testosterone level after 90 days of good living (778 ng/dl), was above average for my age group (Bully!).

These charts are a much better source than labs’ reference ranges to check if your T levels are normal. If your doctor tells you that your T levels are normal, make sure to compare the results to these charts to ensure he’s not shortchanging you.

As far as normal percentages of free testosterone go, ~2-3% is considered normal. If you’re significantly below that percentage range, you’ll likely experience symptoms of low T even if your total T is average or above average.
Go For Optimal, Not Average

If your testosterone levels match up with the average in the charts above, it’s safe to say that you have adequate amounts of T in your system. But we don’t want to go for just adequate, we want optimal testosterone levels so that we can derive as much benefit as we can from this virile molecule.

What’s an optimal T level, you ask? Great question.

The answer is: “It depends.”

Every man is different, so their level of optimal testosterone will be different, too. For some men, a testosterone level of 600 ng/dl will make them feel great, while other men need to be around 800 ng/dl in order to experience the benefits of optimal T.

Clinical research still hasn’t determined a hard threshold level for when symptoms of low T begin appearing. Some recent research suggests that symptoms of low T might begin appearing in men when their total testosterone level dips below 320 ng/dl. According to anecdotal evidence from the owner of Peak Testosterone, many men start noticing low T symptoms when their total testosterone dips into the 400s. Of course, it’s anecdotal, so take it for what it’s worth, but it’s probably a good idea to stay above 500 ng/dl if you don’t want to experience symptoms of low T.

So that’s a good rule of thumb for the lower threshold. And from there you can shoot for levels that are in the higher range for your age group.

But it’s important to note that optimal testosterone doesn’t necessarily mean you need super-high levels. Past a certain level, testosterone can actually cause a bunch of not-so-good side effects, like sleep apnea and overly thick blood. You typically only have to worry about too much testosterone if you’re using testosterone replacement therapy. Barring some physiological defect, too much T usually isn’t a problem found in men increasing their testosterone naturally through changes in lifestyle and diet.
How to Measure Your Testosterone Level

There are three ways to test your testosterone levels: saliva sample, urine sample, and blood sample. Each method has its pros and cons.

Saliva and urine tests are relatively inexpensive and fast. You can even buy a saliva test kit on Amazon for about $30. Just spit in the cup, put it in the mail, and a week later you’ll get a total testosterone measurement. The problem is that saliva and urine tests aren’t very accurate, which is why endocrinologists typically don’t use saliva or urine samples when diagnosing low testosterone levels. Instead they use blood serum tests.

While blood tests are much more accurate and sensitive than saliva or urine tests, they’re also much more expensive — blood tests for total and free testosterone can set you back $130. Because I wanted the most accurate results, I went with the blood serum testing.

What I didn’t know before I got tested was that there are different kinds of testosterone blood tests, some more accurate than others. As I mentioned at the beginning of the post, there isn’t much standardization amongst labs when it comes to testing. Some labs use one method, while another lab will use another test.

I later learned that the blood test I used to measure my total testosterone for my experiment wasn’t the most accurate on the market and wasn’t what the CDC is recommending labs use in their goal to standardize hormone testing. (I tested myself a month after my 90-day experiment with the blood test the CDC recommends. I’ll share my results in a bit.) I also learned that measuring free testosterone is pretty dang hard and that most free T measurements that labs give are typically just estimates.

Below I share what I learned about the confusing world of testosterone blood tests.

Blood Tests for Total Testosterone

ECLIA Method. When I tested myself for total testosterone for my experiment, the method the lab used was ECLIA, short for Electrochemiluminescent Immunoassay. It’s a fast and affordable method to measure total testosterone in your blood. Many labs use this method because it’s automatic and doesn’t require too much work on a lab technician’s part. However, some studies have shown that values obtained with ECLIA are significantly higher compared to the more reliable LC/MS method. Which brings me to…

LC/MS Method. LC/MS is short for liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry. It’s considered the gold standard method by many researchers in measuring small molecules. Its accuracy and consistency is why the CDC is recommending LC/MS to be the standard method used when testing total testosterone. Because LC/MS is more sensitive than ECLIA, doctors typically use this method when testing patients with really low testosterone levels, such as women and children. While it’s more accurate and sensitive, the LC/MS method is more expensive than ECLIA. And it takes a bit longer to get your results.

A month after my 90-day experiment, I got tested again, but this time using the LC/MS method. My total testosterone level using this method was 826.9 ng/dl. Meaning my T levels increased even more since starting my testosterone changes.

You’ll have to make the call on which method you go with. If you don’t think you have extremely low T, ECLIA will work just fine. Just know that most researchers see LC/MS as the method that produces the most accurate and consistent results. Labs often offer both ECLIA and LC/MS tests. Later on, I’ll share where you can get tested using either method.

Blood Tests for Measuring Free Testosterone

Reading about the myriad of ways to measure free testosterone has nearly put me in the nut house. It’s confusing.

The problem that labs face is that there is so little free testosterone in our body, it’s hard to measure directly. Below I lay out the methods available right now to measure free T.

RIA Direct. It’s cheap, fast, but not very accurate. Recent studies have been calling into question the use of RIA direct methodology to measure free testosterone. Unfortunately, most labs across the country only use RIA direct because of its cost effectiveness. LabCorp, the lab I used, only measures free T using RIA direct. Despite the criticisms levied at RIA direct tests, many researchers believe it’s an adequate method for routine tests.

Equilibrium Ultrafiltration. Many in the field of endocrinology argue that equilibrium ultrafiltration is a superior and more accurate testing method to RIA direct. The problem is that many commercial labs don’t offer the method because it’s so time consuming and requires well-trained technicians. If you can find a lab that uses equilibrium ultrafiltration, expect to spend a bit more than you would for a RIA direct.

Calculated free testosterone. Instead of directly measuring free testosterone in your blood, it’s possible to get a rough estimate by calculating the amount of albumin, SHBG, and total testosterone in your blood. The problem with this method is that 1) it’s not very accurate and 2) it requires you to pay for three different tests: albumin, SHBG, and total testosterone. This can get pretty expensive, pretty fast.

As you can see, you have a variety of options when getting tested for T levels. My recommendation is to try to get your total testosterone number using the LC/MS method and use whatever method is available and cost effective to measure free testosterone. Of course, I’m just a guy who writes a blog about manliness, so take that recommendation with a grain of salt.
Where to Get Tested for Testosterone

Alright, so you might be asking your computer screen, “Where do I get tested?”

If you’re suffering symptoms of low testosterone, ask your doctor to order a blood test for you. Insurance might cover it.

If you’re just curious about your T levels, you actually don’t need a doctor’s order. You can sign-up for a test yourself.

Here’s how:

Order the test. You’ll need to order a blood test using a website that sells blood tests to consumers. No, you don’t send the website a blood sample. These sites contract with labs across the country to draw blood. They basically act as a middleman.Here are the sites I used to buy my tests:

    Health Testing Centers. You can order a total and free testosterone test for $129. Just be aware the methods that Health Testing Center will request are ECLIA for total testosterone and RIA direct for free testosterone.
    Request a Test. You can order a LC/MS total testosterone test from Request a Test. They say you can order an equilibrium ultrafiltration free testosterone test, but when I got my lab results back, it showed that the direct method was used. I’m still looking into that, but wanted to give you the heads up.

You can also order albumin and SHBG tests from both Health Testing Centers and Request a Test so you can use the calculation method to figure out your free testosterone levels.

Go to a local lab. After you pay for your blood test, you’ll get an email from the website with your order information. You’ll also be told which lab you need to visit in your area to have the test done. Both Health Testing Centers and Request a Test sent me to LabCorp. If you’ve ever applied for a job that requires a drug test, you’ve probably been to LabCorp yourself, as they are a national company.

Get blood drawn. A nice nurse will draw some blood samples. The whole process takes less than 2 minutes. It’s best to get your blood drawn first thing in the morning, as T levels are at their highest in the morning and steadily decline throughout the day.

Get your results. Two or three days later, you’ll get an email from the lab with your results.

Test more than once. Because testosterone levels are sensitive to a whole host of environmental factors, it’s important to get tested more than once when diagnosing low T. You could have below average T levels one week, but slightly above average the next. This is particularly important if your doctor is considering putting you on testosterone replacement therapy. You don’t want him to make the decision from a single test!
Conclusion

Whoo, that was a lot of info. If you feel a little lost, here’s a crib sheet:

    Don’t use lab reference numbers to determine if your T is low. They’re not usually accurate. Use the charts above for your specific age range.
    Take a blood test to determine your total T levels. You can get this blood test at the doctor, or by signing up online and going to a local lab. Make sure to get tested in the morning!
    If you can, take the LC/MS test to measure your total T — it’s the most accurate. If that’s not available, the ECLIA test will work okay.
    To find your free T, try to use the Equilibrium Ultrafiltration test — it’s the most accurate. If that method isn’t available, the RIA Direct test will work okay.


----------



## jennerrator

****ing charts! made them all pretty and they are still fuuked up!


----------



## animal87

Another point to remember is medications and some serious injuries can wreck havoc on your natural test production. Before my wreck I felt like a  beast on cycle off cycle it didn't matter and this time around I feel like crap. I had blood work done in nov. and I'm having it done again in march after I've been off pct a good while.


----------



## mrSlate

Thanks for the article Jenner  it was a good read.  I was just perusing dr.google for optimum levels just the other day. It's kinda shitty that endos can't even come up with a solid baseline for total and free t  neither of the 2 I saw including my pcp gave 2 shits as they looked at my lab reference ranges and said your ok have a nice day.


----------



## jennerrator

mrSlate said:


> Thanks for the article Jenner  it was a good read.  I was just perusing dr.google for optimum levels just the other day. It's kinda shitty that endos can't even come up with a solid baseline for total and free t  neither of the 2 I saw including my pcp gave 2 shits as they looked at my lab reference ranges and said your ok have a nice day.



you're welcome, I found it interesting and it answered a lot of questions I see guys ask on a regular basis 

and now I can see why so many are frustrated with their dr's


----------



## jyoung8j

Thx Jenner!!


----------



## jennerrator

anytime


----------



## graniteman

Jenner said:


> ****ing charts! made them all pretty and they are still fuuked up!



Charts??.. Sorry Jenn...I didn't make it past your avi.. I kid, Useful charts, I'll be borrowing those


----------



## sfstud33

I went on at age 40. And i should have probably gone on 5 years earlier than that. 

Its a numbers game. If your T numbers are down then get it fixed. If not then dont worry. And dont let the doctor tell you your T levels are on the low side of normal for your age.  I dont think the doctors would tell you to get one of your nuts cut off if your T levels were at the high end of normal. Make them find the right number for you.


----------

