# Extremely underweight. what to do.



## GegaMan

am 5'10" and am 115 to 120 pounds. I have been at that weight for a while. oh and am 18. in the past 4 months i decided to start going to the gym. I've bought 20 pounds of protein supplements and I started going to the gym. I don't go hard. I mean am underweight am not trying to burn all my calories. I go about 3 times a week. and I've consumed 20 pounds of protein supplements in that period. I can see more muscle on my body. but My weight didn't increase. I didn't gain that much muscle either. I mean I didn't expect more in that period of time but i didn't gain any weight I mean people eat hard for like 3 weeks and they gain 15 pounds that wouldn't happen with me. It doesn't go up. I mean I started eating more than I ever have. and nothing significant happened. i mean is it supposed to take longer. I mean am not gaining any kind of weight at all. 5'10" and 115 pounds is way below the underweight BMI. what should I do? am eating healthy too. am taking a lot of calories but I rarely eat candy or any kind of garbage food lately. not even soda.


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## GegaMan

all over the internet all you see "eat more eat more". I've been doing nothing but that but its not working.


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## Luscious Lei

Unless you have a medical condition, "eat more" is the only solution.
You might have raised your cals intake by 250 daily but raised your energy expenditure by 250 as well by working out, so at the end of the day you're not in calories excess. There's no rocket science here, if you consume more calories than you burn you will gain weight, period. The nature of this weight will be determined by your macros and training.


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## Joliver

Eat more is the answer. But I'll add something helpful: eat a ton of food right before bed.


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## John Ziegler

joliver said:


> Eat more is the answer. But I'll add something helpful: eat a ton of food right before bed.



Eat a ton of food right before bed ? Good advise if your looking for a belly, poorly digested food, excess fecal matter weight, heart burn and stomach aches. Not a good advise if your looking to gain quality lean muscle mass.


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## bvs

There is no magic trick unfortunately. Just eat, eat and eat. Chances are you arent actually eating as much as you think, the only way to know is to track your macros and make sure you are in a surplus


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## PillarofBalance

Zeigler said:


> Eat a ton of food right before bed ? Good advise if your looking for a belly, poorly digested food, excess fecal matter weight, heart burn and stomach aches. Not a good advise if your looking to gain quality lean muscle mass.


That's not even close to accurate. Especially for a guy whose thyroid has a meth problem.


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## PillarofBalance

GegaMan said:


> am 5'10" and am 115 to 120 pounds. I have been at that weight for a while. oh and am 18. in the past 4 months i decided to start going to the gym. I've bought 20 pounds of protein supplements and I started going to the gym. I don't go hard. I mean am underweight am not trying to burn all my calories. I go about 3 times a week. and I've consumed 20 pounds of protein supplements in that period. I can see more muscle on my body. but My weight didn't increase. I didn't gain that much muscle either. I mean I didn't expect more in that period of time but i didn't gain any weight I mean people eat hard for like 3 weeks and they gain 15 pounds that wouldn't happen with me. It doesn't go up. I mean I started eating more than I ever have. and nothing significant happened. i mean is it supposed to take longer. I mean am not gaining any kind of weight at all. 5'10" and 115 pounds is way below the underweight BMI. what should I do? am eating healthy too. am taking a lot of calories but I rarely eat candy or any kind of garbage food lately. not even soda.


Your first step should be to see your doctor and get a thyroid panel done.  Something isn't right.  The body uses a negative feedback loop to control hormone production.

High levels of t4 and t3 should stop production of TRH and TSH. For some reason that may not be happening for you.

Other than protein powder what have you actually been eating? Give quantities not just names.


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> Eat a ton of food right before bed ? Good advise if your looking for a belly, poorly digested food, excess fecal matter weight, heart burn and stomach aches. Not a good advise if your looking to gain quality lean muscle mass.



You should probably research more about nutrition so as not to make incorrect claims such as the above.


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## trodizzle

GegaMan said:


> am 5'10" and am 115 to 120 pounds. I have been at that weight for a while. oh and am 18. in the past 4 months i decided to start going to the gym. I've bought 20 pounds of protein supplements and I started going to the gym. I don't go hard. I mean am underweight am not trying to burn all my calories. I go about 3 times a week. and I've consumed 20 pounds of protein supplements in that period. I can see more muscle on my body. but My weight didn't increase. I didn't gain that much muscle either. I mean I didn't expect more in that period of time but i didn't gain any weight I mean people eat hard for like 3 weeks and they gain 15 pounds that wouldn't happen with me. It doesn't go up. I mean I started eating more than I ever have. and nothing significant happened. i mean is it supposed to take longer. I mean am not gaining any kind of weight at all. 5'10" and 115 pounds is way below the underweight BMI. what should I do? am eating healthy too. am taking a lot of calories but I rarely eat candy or any kind of garbage food lately. not even soda.



The first thing that comes to mind for me when reading this is diet. Sure, you bought a bunch of protein but so what? How much of it are you taking in per day? How much should you be taking in per day? You also mention you don't want to burn all your calories but what calories? How many are you consuming in a day? How do you know you're burning them off? To build mass, you need to get your calories in a surplus and this isn't something you can just guess at, you need math here.

I ran your numbers for you, details below. As you will see, you should be consuming about 2200 calories per day to get at a surplus (this is not counting lifting/cardio/exercise but we will discuss that in a minute). This would put you at a 10% surplus based on your current weight. 












Now keep in mind, you do want to lift to build mass and that can burn calories as well. Depending on how hard/long you go, that will make a difference. I use a Mio Alpha watch to keep track of my calories burned during workouts then I eat those back. Guessing is tough here, that's why I use technology to track it. I plug in my age, weight, fitness level, and then track during workouts to get a good idea of how many extra calories I've burned then I eat some of them back (but stay at my personal 15% deficit goal for cutting) where as in your case you want to eat them all back so you can make sure you're at a surplus of calories every day. Lifting for 45 minutes or so and I burn anywhere from 350-500 calories I've found. Also, some of this can depend on genetics, if your body is just a machine burning up everything you throw at it, you may need more of a surplus to get you where you want to go. This is just a guideline to get you started but this stuff varies for each of us.

I hope this was informative, hit me up if you have any questions. We're here to help.


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## HDH

GegaMan said:


> am 5'10" and am 115 to 120 pounds. I have been at that weight for a while. oh and am 18. in the past 4 months i decided to start going to the gym. I've bought 20 pounds of protein supplements and I started going to the gym. I don't go hard. I mean am underweight am not trying to burn all my calories. I go about 3 times a week. and I've consumed 20 pounds of protein supplements in that period. I can see more muscle on my body. but My weight didn't increase. I didn't gain that much muscle either. I mean I didn't expect more in that period of time but i didn't gain any weight I mean people eat hard for like 3 weeks and they gain 15 pounds that wouldn't happen with me. It doesn't go up. I mean I started eating more than I ever have. and nothing significant happened. i mean is it supposed to take longer. I mean am not gaining any kind of weight at all. 5'10" and 115 pounds is way below the underweight BMI. what should I do? am eating healthy too. am taking a lot of calories but I rarely eat candy or any kind of garbage food lately. not even soda.



Write all you cals down if you really want to see what it's going to take to gain.

Start at 3500cals per day, keep your protein around 150g to 175g, that's 600cals to 700cals  per day in protein.

One gram of protein = 4cals.

Run fats 20 to 25%, that's 78g to 97g, 100 should be fine. Gaining fat shouldn't be a problem at first and you need it to grow.

One gram of fat = 9cals.

The rest in carbs. One carb = 4cals.

This is just a starting point and a base to get you going.

Take a few days and do this so you can get an idea of what it's going to take to gain. 

Weigh yourself every week for 2 to 3 weeks if you are still doing it and see where you stand. I would imaging your going to put on some water weight as well from the extra carbs.

It's all about the calorie intake and how badly you really want it. You have to be accurate if you really want to see.

H


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## snake

You got some good advice here brother but let me add one thing; you just started. At 15 y.o. I was the same as you are now. Remember, your body is going to utilize the muscle it has to it's max. before it decides to add more for future use. That should be happening soon but 4 months is a snapshot in the big picture. 15 pounds in 3 weeks naturally is not going to be very flattering on you. 

Here's the good part to keep in mind many years down the road. I doubt you'll be posting in 10 years, "How can I lose 25 lbs of fat". Put the fork in your mouth and your ass in the gym for the next year and I bet you'll be happy with the outcome.

I'm not opposed to you knocking down a glass of whole milk and a protein bar right before bed. In you're case, you should never wake up hungry or be hungry at anytime through the day.


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## Iron1

May I recommend cheeseburgers?


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## DocDePanda187123

Iron1 said:


> May I recommend cheeseburgers?



You may NOT!! Hamburgers are another matter <3


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## DF

Kevlin?  That you?


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## ColoradoJay

High school football coach used to have our linemen each 3 peanut butter sandwiches before bed to put on weight (one slice of bread, packed with PB).  Worked very, very well.


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## John Ziegler

DocDePanda187123 said:


> You should probably research more about nutrition so as not to make incorrect claims such as the above.



So if I go to a nutritionist and tell him or her I started working out at the gym 4 months ago and I'm trying to add lean muscle mass he or she is going to say.



joliver said:


> Eat more is the answer. But I'll add something helpful: eat a ton of food right before bed.



Tell me what is incorrect about what I said. Or are you once again just jumping on the Joliver bandwagon. Everybody knows if you eat a ton of food right before bed it's not going to digest properly.


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> So if I go to a nutritionist and tell him or her I started working out at the gym 4 months ago and I'm trying to add lean muscle mass he or she is going to say.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me what is incorrect about what I said. Or are you once again just jumping on the Joliver bandwagon. Everybody knows if you eat a ton of food right before bed it's not going to digest properly.



I'm not sure where you want me to begin with what's wrong with what you said as there's not a single truth in anything you posted. Pick a statement and we can start there. 

You must not have much substance to back up your thoughts if every time someone points out where you are wrong your argument turns into you must be on the xxxx bandwagon. If you're an adult, act like one and realize I'm attacking your argument not anyone else's.


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## trodizzle

Doc eats cheese to bulk up.


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## John Ziegler

Ok let's start from the first thing I said in the sentence. Tell me there's no truth in that for starters.



Zeigler said:


> Eat a ton of food right before bed ? Good advise if your looking for a belly


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> Ok let's start from the first thing I said in the sentence. Tell me there's no truth in that for starters.



Incorrect if by belly you mean body fat. 

Energy balance, macronutrient intake, and exercise or lack thereof will dictate whether one increases body fat not the time of the day one decides to eat.


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## John Ziegler

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Incorrect if by belly you mean body fat.
> 
> Energy balance, macronutrient intake, and exercise or lack thereof will dictate whether one increases body fat not the time of the day one decides to eat.



Ok so your saying that if a guy starts eating a ton of food at night right before bed their is no chance of a belly he's going to remain ripped and shredded and it's only going to add muscle. Hear that guy's eat a ton of food right before bed it wont effect your abs.

Ok sir on to the next thing I said there is no truth in.



Zeigler said:


> Eat a ton of food right before bed ? poorly digested food



There is no truth in this statement either right.


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## Joliver

Zeigler said:


> Eat a ton of food right before bed ? Good advise if your looking for a belly, poorly digested food, excess fecal matter weight, heart burn and stomach aches. Not a good advise if your looking to gain quality lean muscle mass.



Well, I don't want to explain the body's recovery process, but here's a hint: it happens when your eyes are closed.  So by deductive logic, putting some whey and casein protein with some good carbs--keep the sugar down--and you have provided your body with some building material to recover.  Added bonus: your metabolism is lower, so more of the protein will be partitioned for recovery.  I think it is pretty good to ADVISE new lifters with this kind of ADVICE.

Here's a study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22330017/


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> Ok so your saying that if a guy starts eating a ton of food at night right before bed their is no chance of a belly he's going to remain ripped and shredded and it's only going to add muscle. Hear that guy's eat a ton of food right before bed it wont effect your abs.
> 
> Ok sir on to the next thing I said there is no truth in.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no truth in this statement either right.



If someone is eating in a calorie deficit explain to me how they will gain any sort of bodyweight let alone fat just by eating a lot at night? You do realize mass isn't made out of thin air right? 

Please re-read what i wrote and put your glasses on or stop your selectively reading what you think I wrote vs what I actually wrote. If it's behind the scope of your comprehension I'm more than willing to dumb it down for you but you have to inform me you don't understand otherwise I don't know. 

Plenty of ppl, as in hundreds of thousands of ppl, have used the warrior diet or IF diet in which one or a few large meals are eaten before bed. If energy intake is matched to their needs and goals they don't gain body fat period. And neither do they poorly digest food.

So far the only thing you've said that had ANY truth to it is "Ok sir on to the next thing I said there is no truth in" which is ironic


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## Joliver

That there study be sayin' da followin' fo those dat caint read:

_protein ingested immediately before sleep is effectively digested and absorbed, thereby stimulating muscle protein synthesis and improving whole-body protein balance during postexercise overnight recovery._


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## Joliver

I'm just waiting on ziggy to try to turn the tables and say "waaaa!!! But jol!!! You didn't say protein! You just said eat before bed! Waaa!"


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## John Ziegler

joliver said:


> Well, I don't want to explain the body's recovery process, but here's a hint: it happens when your eyes are closed.  So by deductive logic, putting some whey and casein protein with some good carbs--keep the sugar down--and you have provided your body with some building material to recover.  Added bonus: your metabolism is lower, so more of the protein will be partitioned for recovery.  I think it is pretty good to ADVISE new lifters with this kind of ADVICE.
> 
> Here's a study:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22330017/



This sounds more logical than your first post. I can imagine this kid getting the wrong idea. Sounded like you were suggesting to a kid lean as fk to throw it away on a dirty bulk. I think he should just keep pumping the weights for a couple more year's and eat a normal healthy diet. Rather than a crash weight gain approach. I mean he's only been in the gym 4 months and he's 18 years old. Hang in there kid and rejoice your skinniness, don't try to gain a bunch of weight over night. It will be hard to loose that kind of weight in the long run.


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## Pinkbear

#teamdirtysouth 

Of course we talking dirty diet


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## HDH

Personally guys, with no studies to back it, I'd rather have carbs in me when I go to sleep since that's when I'm doing the most growing.

I'm a calorie counter and love the cardio, so I control my weight with cals in vs cals burnt in a day.

Taken on an individual basis, for someone that's very underweight, eat any and every opportunity you get. It's easy enough to get a hold on once you get used to eating enough to grow.

H


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## Joliver

joliver said:


> I'm just waiting on ziggy to try to turn the tables and say "waaaa!!! But jol!!! You didn't say protein! You just said eat before bed! Waaa!"





Zeigler said:


> This sounds more logical than your first post. I can imagine this kid getting the wrong idea. Sounded like you were suggesting to a kid lean as fk to throw it away on a dirty bulk. I think he should just keep pumping the weights for a couple more year's and eat a normal healthy diet. Rather than a crash weight gain approach. I mean he's only been in the gym 4 months and he's 18 years old. Hang in there kid and rejoice your skinniness, don't try to gain a bunch of weight over night. It will be hard to loose that kind of weight in the long run.



Holy ****ing monkey shit....I called that shit in the air.


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## John Ziegler

Pinkbear said:


> #teamdirtysouth
> 
> Of course we talking dirty diet



This doesn't sound like someone interested in a dirty diet.



GegaMan said:


> am 5'10" and am 115 to 120 pounds. I have been at that weight for a while. oh and am 18. in the past 4 months i decided to start going to the gym. what should I do? am eating healthy too. am taking a lot of calories but I rarely eat candy or any kind of garbage food lately. not even soda.


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## Iron1

"Dirty diet"


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## stonetag

Iron1 said:


> "Dirty diet"



I knew that woman..


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## John Ziegler

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Please re-read what i wrote and put your glasses on or stop your selectively reading what you think I wrote vs what I actually wrote. If it's behind the scope of your comprehension I'm more than willing to dumb it down for you but you have to inform me you don't understand otherwise I don't know.



Let's keep the debates at higher ranks. I've never disrespected you with childish foolery.


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## DocDePanda187123

joliver said:


> I'm just waiting on ziggy to try to turn the tables and say "waaaa!!! But jol!!! You didn't say protein! You just said eat before bed! Waaa!"



Or the "you can't reply to a 3hr 26min old post" but by golly you seem to have nailed it. Since you're SI's new psychic answer me this: will I total elite by the end of the year??????


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> Let's keep the debates at higher ranks. I've never disrespected you with childish foolery.



That's not disrespect. If you do not understand nutrition or the body's physiologic responses to it I'll be more than happy to explain it to you in layman's terms or otherwise. If you don't want me to and continue to put words in my mouth while taking pot shots the favor will be returned in kind. It's your choice how you wish to continue as it makes no difference to me.


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## John Ziegler

DocDePanda187123 said:


> That's not disrespect.



We're not talking about nutrition we're talking about you disrespecting me. The way you spoke to me is disrespectful and I have never disrespected you. So don't say that's not disrespect unless you are now a liar too.


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## Joliver

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Or the "you can't reply to a 3hr 26min old post" but by golly you seem to have nailed it. Since you're SI's new psychic answer me this: will I total elite by the end of the year??????



Let me concentrate......the 8-ball told me you would, but Red and his boyfriend would suffer from minor injuries on the way to the meet. 

The lesson is, wear your safety belt.


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> We're not talking about nutrition we're talking about you disrespecting me. The way you spoke to me is disrespectful and I have never disrespected you. So don't say that's not disrespect unless you are now a liar too.



That was not disrespect that was me responding to your little pot shots. You're free to label me whatever you wish but I will continue to respond in kind. If you can't take the heat don't step into the kitchen kind of deal.


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## Joliver

Zeigler said:


> We're not talking about nutrition we're talking about you disrespecting me. The way you spoke to me is disrespectful and I have never disrespected you. So don't say that's not disrespect unless you are now a liar too.



You know what's funny? How you claim you want civilized debate and, despite that fact, everyone attacks you. Then I see you calling people liars and frauds.  Keep it up. Doc is too nice to wreck your shit. I want to see you cry over your rep some more in the chat.


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## John Ziegler

joliver said:


> You know what's funny? How you claim you want civilized debate and, despite that fact, everyone attacks you. Then I see you calling people liars and frauds.  Keep it up. Doc is too nice to wreck your shit. I want to see you cry over your rep some more in the chat.



I'm not resorting to a me smart you dumb type of rebuttal. I'm in here with a gentleman retort. Opinions may vary like if it's healthy or not to eat a ton of food before bed. That doesn't mean time to belittle the opposition, say things like oh your too dumb to understand my opinion. Keep the debate in a higher rank. Calling people dumb is juvenile and disrespectful.


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> I'm not resorting to a me smart you dumb type of rebuttal. I'm in here with a gentleman retort. Opinions may vary like if it's healthy or not to eat a ton of food before bed. That doesn't mean time to belittle the opposition, say things like oh your too dumb to understand my opinion. Keep the debate in a higher rank. Calling people dumb is juvenile.



Either the conversation is above your head or you want to play the sympathy card as that's your only recourse for making incorrect and unsupported claims. Which is it?

Edit* reading comprehension isn't your friend apparently. Nowhere did I call you dumb I merely said I would dumb down the scientific jargon so you could better understand why you're wrong.


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## John Ziegler

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Either the conversation is above your head or you want to play the sympathy card as that's your only recourse for making incorrect and unsupported claims. Which is it?
> 
> Edit* reading comprehension isn't your friend apparently. Nowhere did I call you dumb I merely said I would dumb down the scientific jargon so you could better understand why you're wrong.



Sir there was a difference in opinion's about whether or not it is good advise to eat a ton of food before bed. You got flustered because I don't agree with that. Then you started up with the oh I better dumb it down for the dummy. Or no I get it now, that meant dumb it down for the guy who doesn't agree with a belly full of food at bed time. Everybody knows eating a ton of food at bed time is healthy.


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> Sir there was a difference in opinion's about whether or not it is good advise to eat a ton of food before bed. Then you got flustered because I don't agree with that. Then you started up with the oh I better dumb it down for the dummy. Or no I get it now that meant dumb it down for the guy who doesn't agree with a belly full of food at bed time.



The victim card it is (which is becoming a habit I see). When you're ready to talk nutrition again let me know. Until then http://www.amazon.com/The-Poor-Me-Manual-Perfecting/dp/1604190744#


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## Tren4Life

I just ate a bowl of popcorn reading this thread. 

Doc , Jol, on with the show!!


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## John Ziegler

DocDePanda187123 said:


> The victim card it is (which is becoming a habit I see). When you're ready to talk nutrition again let me know. Until then http://www.amazon.com/The-Poor-Me-Manual-Perfecting/dp/1604190744#



I'm not claiming a victim. I'm trying to keep the debates from turning to name calling and belittling. That's what you did and I'm trying to correct it. There you go again with the link. More name calling and belittling. Just goes along perfect with how you conduct yourself in a forum. The forum request's that you don't use profanity. So what do you do ? Use the f bomb in your avatar. Way to go Panda you found another loop hole to make a mockery of rules.


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## DocDePanda187123

Zeigler said:


> I'm not claiming a victim. I'm trying to keep the debates from turning to name calling and belittling. That's what you did and I'm trying to correct it. There you go again with the link. More name calling and belittling. Just goes along perfect with how you conduct yourself in a forum. The forum request's that you don't use profanity. So what do you do ? Use the f bomb in your avatar. Way to go Panda you found another loop hole to make a mockery of rules.




Just so we are clear, my avatar was switched to this picture by the ADMINISTRATOR of this forum bc one of our fellow mods was battling cancer and is a survivor. I've kept this pic up so she knows she's not in this alone. 

*Back to your pity party*

Oh yea, FUKK CANCER....go ahead and report me for swearing. You have my permission.


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## John Ziegler

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Just so we are clear, my avatar was switched to this picture by the ADMINISTRATOR of this forum bc one of our fellow mods was battling cancer and is a survivor. I've kept this pic up so she knows she's not in this alone.
> 
> *Back to your pity party*
> 
> Oh yea, FUKK CANCER....go ahead and report me for swearing. You have my permission.



I'm not reporting anything. Never have never will. Never have given neg notices either. So stop looking for sympathy about your pity party. Here's a tissue go wipe your nose and soak up the tears. I agree with the **** Cancer by the way. Sorry to hear that member is battling it.


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## PillarofBalance

I was gonna ask steel to pass the popcorn. But he is the kind of sick bastard to cut a hole in the bottom.

So instead...

Stfu you bitches and talk about nutrition.

Eating before bed doesn't make you fat.

Kids with insane metabolic rates don't get fat.

This dude needs GOMAD.


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## John Ziegler

Ok now back to the debate. So let me get this straight you and joliver say eat a ton of food before bead. That's a good habit to get into and fact's true. I say not a good Idea or habit to get into because you will end up with a belly and poorly digested food. Am I the only one that think's their theory is ridiculous? Until someone else join's my side I rest my case.


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## Dex

Wait, you don't digest your food during sleep? I can eat 1K+ calories before bed and wake up hungry. Maybe you should get a gastroenterology consult.


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## DF

The OP is 5'10" 115-120lbs.  You really think he's going to get fat eating at bedtime? Jeeeeeezus!


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## Dex

OP, that is really thin. You are only 18? Your body may still be growing and difficult to gain right now. Some grow in height through 2nd year in college. I would get some blood work like others have said. If the blood levels are good, count the calories and start eating. I'll send you a recipe for a black bean shake.


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## snake

joliver said:


> Here's a study:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22330017/



You and Doc always let the facts get in the way of a good internet discussion!


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## Itburnstopee

Op don't make my mistake. Seriously please listen to this, you're probably not eating a lot/ are probably an ectomorph. You need to eat a lot. I know you see it everywhere on the internet that you just need to eat, but trust me it's true. Get my fitness pal app and count shit,  don't have to be exact but just try to get in at least 300 above maintenance. You will build muscle fast since you're new, I had minor muscle gains at first but they stalled because I was eating way less than maintenance. It's hard but you can do it.

You will do good but follow the advice from these members; these guys have been doing this forever (some are old geezers  but big and smart geezers) they won't steer you wrong. And keep us updated man


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## Itburnstopee

Zeigler said:


> Ok now back to the debate. So let me get this straight you and joliver say eat a ton of food before bead. That's a good habit to get into and fact's true. I say not a good Idea or habit to get into because you will end up with a belly and poorly digested food. Am I the only one that think's their theory is ridiculous? Until someone else join's my side I rest my case.



Edit: I don't want to be in this argument


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## MrRippedZilla

Zeigler said:


> Ok now back to the debate. So let me get this straight you and joliver say eat a ton of food before bead. That's a good habit to get into and fact's true. I say not a good Idea or habit to get into because you will end up with a belly and poorly digested food. Am I the only one that think's their theory is ridiculous? Until someone else join's my side I rest my case.



Your "theory" is a logical fallacy since for food to turn into fat and a "belly" it has to be digested properly - you cant magically become fat from calories that were never digested but simply went in & out - bulimia patients are a good example of this. 
This is not a theory, its how your body actually works so if you argue against it then your simply proving yourself to be irrational and therefore this entire debate is a waste of time.


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## John Ziegler

snake said:


> You and Doc always let the facts get in the way of a good internet discussion!



That study has nothing to do with his original post.



joliver said:


> Eat more is the answer. But I'll add something helpful: eat a ton of food right before bed.


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## PillarofBalance

MrRippedZilla said:


> Your "theory" is a logical fallacy since for food to turn into fat and a "belly" it has to be digested properly - you cant magically become fat from calories that were never digested but simply went in & out - bulimia patients are a good example of this.
> This is not a theory, its how your body actually works so if you argue against it then your simply proving yourself to be irrational and therefore this entire debate is a waste of time.


It was worse than a waste. It has taken away an opportunity to help the OP.


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## Itburnstopee

Zeigler said:


> That study has nothing to do with his original post.



Ok now I'm in the argument. This whole debate isn't about the original post. This new guy is looking for help and he's getting conflicting information. He's going to get turned off this forum.


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## Joliver

Zeigler said:


> Eat a ton of food right before bed ? Good advise if your looking for a belly, poorly digested food, excess fecal matter weight, heart burn and stomach aches. Not a good advise if your looking to gain quality lean muscle mass.






Zeigler said:


> Ok now back to the debate. So let me get this straight you and joliver say eat a ton of food before bead. That's a good habit to get into and fact's true. I say not a good Idea or habit to get into because you will end up with a belly and poorly digested food. Am I the only one that think's their theory is ridiculous? Until someone else join's my side I rest my case.



See, that's what I don't like about this debate--the subtle shift from my post being "not good advise [sic]" to "it's a bad habit."  But the OP isn't asking about his excess morning fecal weight stats and lifelong habitual night eating. He said he wanted to gain weight. So as for gaining weight, I say pre-bedtime eating, and I raise you a scientific study that says "_protein ingested immediately before sleep is effectively digested and absorbed, thereby stimulating muscle protein synthesis and improving whole-body protein balance during postexercise overnight recovery._"

What is beyond me is why you think food doesn't digest, the small intestine doesn't absorb nutrients, and the colon doesn't form Lincoln logs and move them to your trapdoor as you sleep. You're sleeping...not hibernating. Biologically, the show must go on...

GOMAD with an emphasis on going to bed with a full tank will put mass on your frame.


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## MrRippedZilla

PillarofBalance said:


> It was worse than a waste. It has taken away an opportunity to help the OP.



To be fair, the advice the OP needs isn't too complicated....

Track your calories and macros for the next week to see EXACTLY what you've been eating - plus this gets you into the habit of tracking everything, which is beneficial for the future.
If your weight is the same, add 10% to your calories preferably from protein and carbs and track again for a week.
If weight is still the same, add another 10% and keep tracking.
Rinse and repeat until the desired weight gain is achieved - preferably no more than 2-3 pounds per month if natty, otherwise too much fat gain. 

If your struggling to eat more then don't rely only on "healthy/clean" foods - add in whatever you enjoy and eat consistently as long as it fits your calories & macros. 

In the meantime keep lifting heavy & progressing in the gym, making sure that your adding weight to bar week on week.

Also, schedule some bloodwork just to make sure there isn't anything going on that can slow down weight gain.


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## Joliver

Plus, in my years of eating and sleeping, that nightly excess fecal weight has a way of taking care of itself right before I shower and shave...


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## stonetag

Agree with the pigging out before bed, obviously the op has the fukin metabolism of a goose, worth a shot. Oh fuk that was my 3000th post, I was hoping to get that in Alpha's world.


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## Pinkbear

I like the dick stroking contest this has turned into


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## Joliver

Pinkbear said:


> I like the dick stroking contest this has turned into



Dick stroking = cardio. No cardio on a bulker.


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## PillarofBalance

stonetag said:


> Agree with the pigging out before bed, obviously the op has the fukin metabolism of a goose, worth a shot. Oh fuk that was my 3000th post, I was hoping to get that in Alpha's world.


Thank you General Patton


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## John Ziegler

I personally won't be eating a ton of food before bed time It doesn't sit well in my digestive system. If the op tries it and it works for him great. I have always been under the impression that eating a ton of food before bed time leads to indigestion. Not one single person jumped in to back up my belief's. Therefor you won the debate.


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## trodizzle

Eating right before bed guarantees I have some crazy dreams, I know that for sure.


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## Itburnstopee

trodizzle said:


> Eating right before bed guarantees I have some crazy dreams, I know that for sure.



"Ooohh Doc, why do you taste like pizza?"


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## HDH

Gegaman, I hope you don't decide to go elsewhere to get advice. After 5 pages of back and forth it seems nothing was solved. The guys in the thread are good guys just caught up in the moment trying to get their points across. Perhaps next time we can get another thread going and not lose site of the opening poster.

Give this a shot, it will allow you to see what it will take to reach your goals. It will be tough at first to get all the food down but most things really worth it aren't easy. But, it gets easier.

I will suggest you start eating early in the morning all the way up until bed. If you are having to much trouble, some "dirty bulking" might be appropriate in the beginning. The most important thing right now is get all the cals in everyday. 



HDH said:


> Write all you cals down if you really want to see what it's going to take to gain.
> 
> Start at 3500cals per day, keep your protein around 150g to 175g, that's 600cals to 700cals  per day in protein.
> 
> One gram of protein = 4cals.
> 
> Run fats 20 to 25%, that's 78g to 97g, 100 should be fine. Gaining fat shouldn't be a problem at first and you need it to grow.
> 
> One gram of fat = 9cals.
> 
> The rest in carbs. One carb = 4cals.
> 
> This is just a starting point and a base to get you going.
> 
> Take a few days and do this so you can get an idea of what it's going to take to gain.
> 
> Weigh yourself every week for 2 to 3 weeks if you are still doing it and see where you stand. I would imaging your going to put on some water weight as well from the extra carbs.
> 
> It's all about the calorie intake and how badly you really want it. You have to be accurate if you really want to see.
> 
> H


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## Itburnstopee

HDH said:


> Gegaman, I hope you don't decide to go elsewhere to get advice. After 5 pages of back and forth it seems nothing was solved. The guys in the thread are good guys just caught up in the moment trying to get their points across. Perhaps next time we can get another thread going and not lose site of the opening poster.
> 
> Give this a shot, it will allow you to see what it will take to reach your goals. It will be tough at first to get all the food down but most things really worth it aren't easy. But, it gets easier.
> 
> I will suggest you start eating early in the morning all the way up until bed. If you are having to much trouble, some "dirty bulking" might be appropriate in the beginning. The most important thing right now is get all the cals in everyday.



I'll add that a glass of milk does the trick sometimes when you just can't eat anymore.


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## Tren4Life

PillarofBalance said:


> I was gonna ask steel to pass the popcorn. But he is the kind of sick bastard to cut a hole in the bottom.
> 
> So instead...
> 
> Stfu you bitches and talk about nutrition.
> 
> Eating before bed doesn't make you fat.
> 
> Kids with insane metabolic rates don't get fat.
> 
> This dude needs GOMAD.




Th butter all over your nice smooth hands. 

Yea yea touch it!!


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## BigGameHunter

OP you got some excellent advice from the senior members here.  Stick around follow their advice and let them help you with your training as well.  You will be pleasantly surprised and satisfied with your gains 365 days from now.

I eat either 2 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and whole milk or a waffle with peanut butter with honey on it  with whole milk every night.  I have done this for years and have never been fat or had anything that looks like a gut.  

I cant believe what I am reading and it seems to be a pattern.  This kid needs our help..... and he got it!  It is not a fukin debate class!!!  If you disagree with something acknowledge it and leave it the hell alone.  Zig the board is here to help guys like this not to build your cyber reputation.  Consider this your warning.  Ive seen enough.

Any replies you have for me Zig, we can take to PM out of courtesy/respect for what is left of this thread.


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## GSgator

ColoradoJay said:


> High school football coach used to have our linemen each 3 peanut butter sandwiches before bed to put on weight (one slice of bread, packed with PB).  Worked very, very well.



Hell Ya I was going to mention that everybody I know that has trouble putting on weight they say peanut butter has helped and lots of it. Drink whole milk maybe get a mass supp that's a easy 1k of cals right there. Eats lots of rice,potatoes and ground beef. I work construction and have a hard time putting on weight still to these day I have only broken the 200lb once and I did that off of lots of fast food whole milk, potatoes and ground beef. At 200 I was benching 385 for 2 reps squatting 405 for a few reps and dead lifting 495 for 6 reps. 200 sounds light but for me I was super solid and really big for my bone structure what sucked was at bed time I would weight in around 199-201 and when I woke up I was sitting at 195 so I could never hold 200 and the strength gains I made in that short time destroyed my joints lol.


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## John Ziegler

BigGameHunter said:


> OP you got some excellent advice from the senior members here.  Stick around follow their advice and let them help you with your training as well.  You will be pleasantly surprised and satisfied with your gains 365 days from now.
> 
> I eat either 2 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and whole milk or a waffle with peanut butter with honey on it  with whole milk every night.  I have done this for years and have never been fat or had anything that looks like a gut.
> 
> I cant believe what I am reading and it seems to be a pattern.  This kid needs our help..... and he got it!  It is not a fukin debate class!!!  If you disagree with something acknowledge it and leave it the hell alone.  Zig the board is here to help guys like this not to build your cyber reputation.  Consider this your warning.  Ive seen enough.
> 
> Any replies you have for me Zig, we can take to PM out of courtesy/respect for what is left of this thread.



I tried to PM you it didn't work for whatever reason. Why are you warning me ? I haven't disrespected anyone ? I haven't gave anyone bad advise. I haven't lost my temper and used profanity. We debated opposing opinions on it so the op know's there are two sides to the start eating a ton of food before bed theory. I'm sure that the billion dollar a year anti acid medication companies enjoy your eat a ton of food before bed theories too. Why are you attacking me now when I had already bowed out like a gentleman ?


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## BigGameHunter

Zeigler said:


> I tried to PM you it didn't work for whatever reason. Why are you warning me ? I haven't disrespected anyone ? I haven't gave anyone bad advise. I haven't lost my temper and used profanity. We debated opposing opinions on it so the op know's there are two sides to the start eating a ton of food before bed theory. I'm sure that the billion dollar a year anti acid medication companies enjoy your eat a ton of food before bed theories too. Why are you attacking me now when I had already bowed out like a gentleman ?



Just got your PM I will respond there.


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## fiinal

I'm gonna defer to Dave Tate on this one...


> There was a time at the Old Westside gym where I couldn't gain weight to save my ****ing life.
> There was this dude who trained there who could just put on weight like ****ing magic. He'd go from 198 to 308 and then to 275 and back down to 198. And he was never fat. It was amazing.
> I finally asked him one day how he did it.
> "You mean I never told you the secret to gaining weight? Come outside and I'll fill you in."
> Now remember, we're at Westside Barbell. And this guy wants to go outside to talk so no one else can hear. Think about that for a minute. What the hell is he going to tell me? This must be some serious shit if we have to go outside, I thought.
> So we get outside and he starts talking.
> "For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don't care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That's your breakfast."
> At this point I'm thinking this guy is nuts. But he's completely serious.
> "For lunch you're gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don't want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don't care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can't let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter."
> "For dinner you're gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don't like sardines, don't put 'em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that ****er up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it."
> "Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that ****er. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals."
> This guy is in a zen-like state when he's talking about this.
> "Now you're on the clock," he continues. "After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you're full. Don't listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I'm telling you now, you're going to get three or four pieces in and you're gonna want to quit. You ****ing can't quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.
> And if you can't finish it, don't you ever come back to me and tell me you can't gain weight. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you that you don't give a **** about getting bigger and you don't care how much you lift!"
> Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn't get much fatter. One of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, though.
> — Dave Tate


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## Cobra Strike

Wow....so in a nicer version this is what one of my arguing threads looks like? Lol 

All im going to say is my bed time meal is 1 1/2 cups rice...12 egg whites...and 15 almonds. Kind of a large meal. Now do I have a belly? Yes I do but its not becausr of my bed time meal...its because im eating 5k clean cals a day and im fkn full all day. It looks like a rock solid beer gut!!


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## Hassanahmed

you have just starting keep moving and try to but weightgainers and try to improve your work out


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## Hassanahmed

i habe made it before


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