# PCT for TRT



## Mountain Warrior

when I was in my early 30s I did a cycle of Decca Durabolin alone for about 4 months or more. I didn't stack it with Test like I was supposed too. Some one sold me some shit and I just used it with out putting much thought in to it.. Just came off the cycle cold turkey. Never knew any better..  I never seemed to come right after that. Always struggled for stamina and never made any further gains no matter how hard I trained. 
When I turned 50 I discovered TRT and started on it with very good results. Stamina climed and I started putting on size for the first time in years.. Now 2 years in Im thinking of coming off TRT. 
I'm thinking if I use proper PCT if I would have any chance of getting my Test levels back some where decent? 

I was at 16 - 13 nmol/L  (variation - long story don't ask lol) when I started on TRT.. The doctor said he thought my own testosterone  wasn't doing what it was supposed to..  .. Im guessing the only way to find out is to try to come off and see what happens.. 
Any thoughts guys?


----------



## j2048b

cashout knows his stuff, and he came off trt after being on a few years, i have been also contemplated this as well...


----------



## j2048b

sorry man, just noticed u had already found cashouts exit strategy! my bad, im not sure how to break down his drug dosage and breakdown... it was a bit odd for me too... id like to know if anyone else can do this as well?


----------



## Mountain Warrior

Apparently he's away so hopefully when he gets back he'll break it down so that we can all understand it.. cheers j2048b


----------



## RedLang

For the highest rate of success the best thing you can do at this point is understand what each of these medications will do and also an understanding of how the hypothalamic-pituatary gonadal axis functions for testosterone production.

Arimidex, Letrozole, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid), Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex)

If you are planning to complete a restart, knowledge and planning will be your allies.


----------



## transcend2007

MA I was just curious....what is reason for coming off trt?


----------



## Red Dog

At 50 years of age I wouldn't expect your natural testosterone production to have improved over time especially considering you've introduced exogenous testosterone into your body for the last two years.

Prepare yourself for a rough ride. 

Good luck.


----------



## j2048b

Mountain Warrior said:


> when I was in my early 30s I did a cycle of Decca Durabolin alone for about 4 months or more. I didn't stack it with Test like I was supposed too. Some one sold me some shit and I just used it with out putting much thought in to it.. Just came off the cycle cold turkey. Never knew any better..  I never seemed to come right after that. Always struggled for stamina and never made any further gains no matter how hard I trained.
> When I turned 50 I discovered TRT and started on it with very good results. Stamina climed and I started putting on size for the first time in years.. Now 2 years in Im thinking of coming off TRT.
> I'm thinking if I use proper PCT if I would have any chance of getting my Test levels back some where decent?
> 
> I was at 16nmol/L when I started on TRT.. The doctor said he thought my own testosterone  wasn't doing what it was supposed to..  .. Im guessing the only way to find out is to try to come off and see what happens..
> Any thoughts guys?



ok warrior what he actually did if u can decipher his numbers was this:

Week HCG clomid Nolva letro
1 M/W/F/Su 2000 1.25 M/Th
2 T/Th/Sa 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 M/W/F 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 Sat/Sun 100 40 1.25 M/Th
4 Every Day 100 40 1.25 M/Th
5 100 40 1.25 M/Th
6 100 40 1.25 M/Th
7 40 1.25 M/Th
8 40 1.25 M/Th
9 1.25 M/Th
10 1.25 M/Th

broken down per week:

1. hcg @ 2000 iu per the days he shows m/w/f/su  THEN M/TH he did letro @ 1.25 
2. T/Th/Sa  hcg @2000iu letro @ 1.25 on M/Th
3. M/W/F hcg @2000 iu letro @ 1.25 M/Th
3. Sat/Sun clomid @100mlg nolva@ 40  letro@ 1.25 M/Th
4. EVERY DAY clomid@100 nolva@40 letro@1.25 M/Th
5. clomid@100 nolva@40 letro@1.25 M/Th
6. clomid@100 nolva@40 letro@1.25 M/Th
weeks 7 and 8 are the same: nolva@40 letro@1.25
9. and 10. are the same 1.25 letro m/th


but remember he also said this in a statement later on:

I want to add a couple of comment to the original post in this thread....

1) The exit worked exceptionally well for me. In short, once I executed the plan I was able to restore my natural hormone levels to pre-decline levels of about 900 ng/dl.

2) From executing the plan, there is one minor change I'd recommend *based on my expereience - increase the letro dosage to 1.25 mg EOD as opposed to M/Th.* so this means thru out the entire restart letro should be ran EOD=every other day @ 1.25

 My estrogen elevated to over 40 during my HCG phase. While not terribly high, this did create some negative feedback and ultimately kept my natural test production lower. Blood works throughout the processes supported this idea and once I actually increase my letro my natural test did actually continue to increase.

3) *Because of #2, I extended my taper down of Letro to avoid any type of estrogen rebound. I actually add 4 additional weeks to my taper of letro at the end of the exit.*

so weeks 9 and 10 get extended an extra 4 weeks so u can taper down with letro, so beginning at 1.25 eod id drop it to 1.0 next week, then .75, then .50 then .25 the final week?

someone correct me if im wrong with the deciphering from this geniuos cashout... i believe i got it correct, but if anything is off feel free to edit


----------



## goesto11

RedLang said:


> For the highest rate of success the best thing you can do at this point is understand what each of these medications will do and also an understanding of how the hypothalamic-pituatary gonadal axis functions for testosterone production.
> 
> Arimidex, Letrozole, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid), Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex)
> 
> If you are planning to complete a restart, knowledge and planning will be your allies.



I would add triptorelin to that list. Ask your doctor about it. Although AI's have no place in PCT, Aromasin (Exemestane) is a better drug than Arimidex (Anastrozole) and I believe most guys on here agree. Even at small doses my estrogen rubber bands a lot on adex and I have yet to read an article by a physician saying they would ever choose adex over stane. 

Anyway not to derail the thread:
"I'm thinking if I use proper PCT if I would have any chance of getting my Test levels back some where *decent?*"
It's possible you could come out within normal range. Check your levels 30 days after your last pct medication to see how you've recovered. 

Not that it's any of my business, but why do you want to stop trt? 
Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## RedLang

Aromasin is a steroidal AI and may exhibit androgenic activity in PCT. This may affect feedback negatively during recovery and is the reason it should not be used in PCTs. 

j2048b, later Cashout did retract that statement that increased letro may not be required. He had a theory about how the slightly higher estrogen may of actually helped his recovery. Unfortunately, i never ended up hearing what that theory was.


----------



## gymrat827

triptorelin would be good too.

Id use that, clomid, nolva, hcg, and aromasin, not letro.  Not need for the big guns.  

Id follow something close to what guys have here.  Most of it is copied and pasted from a thread from Cashout.  



yrs, yrs back i did a cycle of tes E/EQ, did no pct....well i did get a research chem of some kind, not sure if it was a AI or a serm but i ran it til it was out (6wks) than went right into a cycle of anadrol, ran that for 5wks, i ran out eventually and then started up more tes E.

I know you didint do something this stupid, but my point is i was 24 at this time and i took 6-8 moths of clomid, AI's and natty T boosters to get my sex drive and sexual functions back to normal.  It was a hormone roller coaster and it was not easy to fix.

Get all your serms, AI, & HCG and pray for the best.  You will be all over the place for a while til things settle.


GL, report as much as you can back and we will help you all we can.<


----------



## Mountain Warrior

transcend2007 said:


> MA I was just curious....what is reason for coming off trt?



I have been on Andriol testo caps which have been a dream ride but I have just discovered they have a nasty chemical in them that I don't like and of all things it's a food coloring. So I am not in to taking them anymore. The only other option that suits me is of course injecting but I know plenty of older guys that are still training up a storm and aren't on HRT.. 
The other thing is some of the side affects have me worried.. I don't want an enlarged protstate or kidney tumours etc. 
All to often people ignore these sorts of possible side affects.  Im thinking if I can go off and train naturally then why not. 
Its what my test levels will return to once I come off that Im wondering aobut.. Whether its worth attempting to come off.. As cashout said, he came off with out any down time. No negative affects. No depression, no feeling low. At that's how I read his post..  In fact he says he even gained a couple of pounds while going through PCT.. If that's possible then why not give it a shot??

I guess its whether its worth trying to come off at my age that Im wondering about... Hmm, time too google test levels for age.. I think that will answer whether its worth even trying...


----------



## RedLang

Not to be a downer, but Cashout is a prime physical specimen with a complete history showing his natural levels from the age of 19. He is extremely regimented and controls every variable in minute degrees to assess the outcomes. He has done this over the past 20 years. 

I wouldnt worry about gaining extra muscle, i would only worry about getting your hormones within the normal range, then worry about the rest once thats sorted.


----------



## Mountain Warrior

RedLang said:


> Not to be a downer, but Cashout is a prime physical specimen with a complete history showing his natural levels from the age of 19. He is extremely regimented and controls every variable in minute degrees to assess the outcomes. He has done this over the past 20 years.
> 
> I wouldnt worry about gaining extra muscle, i would only worry about getting your hormones within the normal range, then worry about the rest once thats sorted.



Gaining extra muscle while coming off is the last of my worries.. Just thought it was worth a mention that its possible..


----------



## Mountain Warrior

j2048b said:


> ok warrior what he actually did if u can decipher his numbers was this:


thanks for sorting that for me.. much appreciated.


----------



## Maintenance Man

What is the main goal of diverting from PCT at the age of 50???


----------

