# Is an AI a must for PCT?



## Beefcake

Coming off of a deca/test cycle and curious if running an ai throughout PCT is that important.  I've run it throughout the 14 weeks so far, but running out.  I've read that it is a good idea to help boost natty levels?  I've run HCG throughout the 14 week cycle and will do until 4 days prior to PCT of clomid and nolva.


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## Zeek

An Ai is absolutely not necessary for PCT, I've done many PCT's and none of them have involved an AI. The clomid and nolva should protect from any gyno during the rebound stage and some estrogen post cycle actually speeds up your body in producing it's own test IMO.

 I would like to hear what the guys think who do run an Ai during PCT though!


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## LeanHerm

Well I always run one at a low dose and always am fine.  I know someone will argue with me on this subject but have hears this on a couple occasions. Arimadex ran along side nolva has been known to minimize the effectiveness of adex.


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## Malevolence

I am running test and deca too and using aromasin right now.  I hadn't planned on running the Aro through the pct but if the Est sides get real bad like lots of bacne then it might be a good idea.  How much deca and test are you running??


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## gymrat827

all serms boost serum E..... I always use a low dose AI.  im a bit gyno prone so its a bit different for me


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## PillarofBalance

Best PCT combo: torem/aromasin

I really feel like that aromasin kept my womanhood in check. I believe it or not I can be a fuckin bitch!


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## Pikiki

I will said that is not necesary but according with some reaserch I`ve done with 19nor specifically. Aromasin should be the option if you want to run one. The reason is cause the enzyme is permanently deactivated there is no estrogen rebound with Aromasin. With Adex which bind competitively to the aromatase enzyme, and eventually unbind, rendering it active again. This means once you stop taking the AI(Adex) estrogen rebound is more likely to happen. But like I said is not always necessary, if you are Gyno prone you should consider as an option.


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## Lulu66

Nolva and clomid should keep your E in check, but i would at least have the ai on hand just in case.


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## Beefcake

Thanks for the input guys.  FYI--I was running test 600 deca 500.  I hate coming off of a cycle.  It sucks.

BTW Bigherm---Love the new profile pic dude!!! lmfao


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## Pikiki

Bro thats what is all about this board to help each other out.


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## cranium85

their is an acticle out their on steroids.com or i steroid.com that sugest using nolva and aromasin during PCT. But no other type of AI. I will try to find it.


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## cranium85

Pikiki said:


> I will said that is not necesary but according with some reaserch I`ve done with 19nor specifically. Aromasin should be the option if you want to run one. The reason is cause the enzyme is permanently deactivated there is no estrogen rebound with Aromasin. With Adex which bind competitively to the aromatase enzyme, and eventually unbind, rendering it active again. This means once you stop taking the AI(Adex) estrogen rebound is more likely to happen. But like I said is not always necessary, if you are Gyno prone you should consider as an option.



sorry pikki didnt see this post! Word is that aromsin is THE ONLY ai which should be taken during your PCT! Haven't done it yet personally but am going to this cycle. I hear (like POB said above) that it makes PCT much more comfortable and takes away that bitchy feeling, that comes with PCT especially clomid


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## Pikiki

cranium85 said:


> sorry pikki didnt see this post! Word is that aromsin is THE ONLY ai which should be taken during your PCT! Haven't done it yet personally but am going to this cycle. I hear (like POB said above) that it makes PCT much more comfortable and takes away that bitchy feeling, that comes with PCT especially clomid



Don`t need to be sorry bro, you post a great link that back up what I post. I read it and save it in my computer AAS folder :-B
Thnx again to post it.


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## Beefcake

Good articles.  One point of interest was: "There is no evidence to suggest waiting any length of time after your cycle is over will increase PCT effectiveness…it simply prolongs the time you aren’t doing anything positive to regain your natural hormones."  So instead of waiting 2-3 weeks after your last shot you should start the serms right away.

Anyone agree with this?


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## Lulu66

Beefcake said:


> Good articles.  One point of interest was: "There is no evidence to suggest waiting any length of time after your cycle is over will increase PCT effectiveness…it simply prolongs the time you aren’t doing anything positive to regain your natural hormones."  So instead of waiting 2-3 weeks after your last shot you should start the serms right away.
> 
> Anyone agree with this?



I just start pct depending on the esther used. Exogenous anDrogenic levels need to be down before effective pct can take place. So for test e/cyp bout 2 weeks after last shot. Prop bout a wee, and so on.


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## Beefcake

Yes and with deca/test 3 weeks.  But the article said to start right after last shot or pill.  Never heard of that before.


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## cranium85

Beefcake said:


> Yes and with deca/test 3 weeks.  But the article said to start right after last shot or pill.  Never heard of that before.



yeah me either BeEF! thats the first for me sometime i don't know wtf Tony Roberts is talking about....that makes NOOOO fucking sense so who is ever thinking of following that don't. If your on an Ethenate Ester wait two week before u do your PCT!!!! DEF!!!!! Unless....i havn't read the article to the fullest in a while....he may have been refering to doing the HCG blast right away and then wait five days from end of blast and start PCT. but i'll have to read it again


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## cranium85

ester lenghts below wait for the ester to clear


Ester Half-Life:

Formate 1.5 days 
Acetate 3 days 
propionate 4.5 days 
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days 
Butyrate 6 days 
Valerate 7.5 days 
Hexanoate 9 days 
Caproate 9 days 
Isocaproate 9 days 
Heptanoate 10.5 days 
enanthate 10.5 days 
Octanoate 12 days 
cypionate 12 days 
Nonanoate 13.5 days 
decanoate 15 days 
undecanoate 16.5 days 

Sust: 
30mg propionate 
55mg Phenylpropionate 
65mg Caproate 
100mg decanoate 

Testonon: 
30mg propionate 
55mg Phenylpropionate 
65mg Isocaproate 
100mg enanthate

Deca -durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 14 days 
Equipoise 14 days 
Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days 
Primobolan (methenolone enanthate) 10.5 days 
Sustanon or Omnadren 15 to 18 days 
Testosterone Cypionate 12 days 
Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days 
Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days 
Testosterone Suspension 1 day 
Winstrol (stanozolol ) 1 day 

Steroid esters Drug Active half-life 
Formate 1.5 days 
Acetate 3 days 
Propionate 2 days 
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days 
Butyrate 6 days 
Valerate 7.5 days 
Hexanoate 9 days 
Caproate 9 days 
Isocaproate 9 days 
Heptanoate 10.5 days 
Enanthate 10.5 days 
Octanoate 12 days 
Cypionate 12 days 
Nonanoate 13.5 days 
Decanoate 15 days 
Undecanoate 16.5 days 

Ancillaries Drug Active half-life 
Arimidex 3 days 
Clenbuterol 1.5 days 
Clomid 5 days 
Cytadren 6 hours 
T3 10 hours


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## Pikiki

IMO I like to belive in Dr Scallys report cause the are studies by DR`s about it. Yes you start HCG right way next day after last shot, but no SERMS. There are 2 studies about Scally about it,I post one old here for test/deca in which he stated in his report about run  both together, but there is an update on that one. Start HCG at 2500iu for 10shot eod then start SERM treatment. This will give time for esters to clear before to start PCT. Lulu point something and then Cranium hit it again depend on the esters. The half life info upthere is a great tool to use so you can know when they shold be clear. Or there is this calculator I found very usefull.  http://www.roidcalc.com/


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## Beefcake

Lots of good info here.  Like that calculator.


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## CLSMTH700

good post. 

my 2 cents if its even worth that :

I have managed to survive without AI and I lean towards being a little gyno prone.  I only use Nolva.

My reasoning is because I have a TRT doc who actually is also a major gear head.  said AI wasnt needed and he doesn't write armidex.  Only writes Nolva(tamoxifen). I forget his reasoning since we had that discussion couple years ago.  So because of this I became used to running Nolva and HCG only. 

so far so good.  but recently thought about throwing in an AI during trt and cycles.


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## Pikiki

CLSMTH700 said:


> good post.
> 
> my 2 cents if its even worth that :
> 
> I have managed to survive without AI and I lean towards being a little gyno prone.  I only use Nolva.
> 
> My reasoning is because I have a TRT doc who actually is also a major gear head.  said AI wasnt needed and he doesn't write armidex.  Only writes Nolva(tamoxifen). I forget his reasoning since we had that discussion couple years ago.  So because of this I became used to running Nolva and HCG only.
> 
> so far so good.  but recently thought about throwing in an AI during trt and cycles.



Your post here are always welcome my brotha, and nothing but good to add an AI to prevent estro rebound on PCT.


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## cranium85

however i hve read on other thread that u should only run the aromasin for only the first three weeks of the PCT at 25mgs a day and then run your nolva for a good five or clomid or what ever ur PCT plan is....but yes as someone else said i've read that u shoudnt run the AI (aromasin) thru the entire PCT because u need some Estro in your system

then again im no pro...i just read till my eyes bleed


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## Pikiki

cranium85 said:


> however i hve read on other thread that u should only run the aromasin for only the first three weeks of the PCT at 25mgs a day and then run your nolva for a good five or clomid or what ever ur PCT plan is....but yes as someone else said i've read that u shoudnt run the AI (aromasin) thru the entire PCT because u need some Estro in your system
> 
> then again im no pro...i just read till my eyes bleed



Good pointt bro, but one thing I have to say is the according with my notes about this, AI should be run half of dose of while on cycle. Eg. if you Aromasin at 12.5mgs during cycle you do it at 6.25mgs during PCT and should be done after drop your clomid (30days) and continue with Nolva (for another 15days) then Aromasin for a week past the Nolva to avoid any rebound. I like this discussion here cause I can see others opinion and share what We read about it and exchange ideas to learn more and more....


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## cranium85

Pikiki said:


> Good pointt bro, but one thing I have to say is the according with my notes about this, AI should be run half of dose of while on cycle. Eg. if you Aromasin at 12.5mgs during cycle you do it at 6.25mgs during PCT and should be done after drop your clomid (30days) and continue with Nolva (for another 15days) then Aromasin for a week past the Nolva to avoid any rebound. I like this discussion here cause I can see others opinion and share what We read about it and exchange ideas to learn more and more....



thats funny cuz i read kinda the oppososite...i wish a REAL PRO would chime in and tell us how/ or the most effective way to sun the arom during PCT. I heard the opposite that it would only be use in the begging and that u should actually up the dose. If your running 12.5 aroma on cycle u should run 25mg during PCT

it's nuts how everyone has something deffrent to say...how are we gonna find out which is the right way? i would like to have the best opinion possible before i do this for my PCT.


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## cranium85

this is what tony robert sugest in another of his acticles that i forgot to post before



Week        Nolvadex          HCG                 Aromasin                  Vitamin E
1              20mgs/day     500iu/day          20mgs/day               1,000iu/day
2              20mgs/day      500iu/day          20mgs/day               1,000iu/day
3              20mgs/day       500iu/day          20mgs/day                1,000iu/day
4              20mgs/day                              20mgs/day
5              20mgs/day
6              20mgs/day

posted at bottom of article---i don't also don't agree with running HCG on PCT either. I belive from my research it's best on cycle....or a blast before u start ur PCT


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## Pikiki

cranium85 said:


> thats funny cuz i read kinda the oppososite...i wish a REAL PRO would chime in and tell us how/ or the most effective way to sun the arom during PCT. I heard the opposite that it would only be use in the begging and that u should actually up the dose. If your running 12.5 aroma on cycle u should run 25mg during PCT
> 
> it's nuts how everyone has something deffrent to say...how are we gonna find out which is the right way? i would like to have the best opinion possible before i do this for my PCT.



LOL Yeah I`m agree, I tell you this bro. I got my advice on this by Cobra and I`m very into this cause he point me several points on this and I went and read about it. I look at the one you post the links and go just like you stated tho. One thing I noticed was on those reads there is no clomid on those PCT protocols and according with Dr Scally`s studies is a must on PCT. well hopefully Cobra or someone else with more experience will jump here. The problem will be on the personal point of view just like happen to us right now. That person may have good recovery with something diffrent than what we are post in here. Remeber my post are directly to 19nor PCT`s.

One more point about this is the Nolva will act against the estro as well but binding from it. So 2 drugs on this same purpose at high doses will shut done completly your E2 leves and like you post you need some estro after all. We may be come Pro`s on this after a lit bit...


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## cranium85

agree with u 100 percent i don't thikn Tony roberts is all he's cracked up to be bro..i mean some of the shit he says just doesn't fly with me..so if cobra told u that then i think we should go with cobra's way not Tony R's....a lot of ppl have nagative things to say about him and his ideas. He's a big nolva only PCT...no Clomid guy...which i don't totally agree with..it all depends on what kind of cycle our doing and who u are. Some ppl swear by nolva other clomid other both. but i know this clomid is SPECIFICALLY designed for PCT and boosting you Test levels...so for him to say "most ppl are sold that nolva is better than clomid for PCT" is his personal bias opinon. although a lot of ppl do not like the girl bitch sides from clomid....if it gets the job done who gives a fuck...better then not getting the job done right...man up and handle it. But like i said before i've read from a lot of board and a lot of thread that aromasin makes that PCT a lot more comfortable


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## Pikiki

And that is the good to know cause , Who wants to have a bad experience on PCT?? if Aromasin makes it better is a way to go for...


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## cranium85

i think your way/ cobras way makes a lot more sense to me ne ways...then tony roberts PCT protocal....i'm pretty new to this forum...just a few months over here, but from what i've seen Cobra is very knowlegable and i would take his advice over some article on a web site im really not that fond of lol

"And you will address him... as Commander! Cobra Commander! "
no? anyone....guess i'm the only one young enough who whatched GI Joe


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## Pikiki

Yes he is Master Commander Cobra in my book lmao...great discussion here with you brotha.


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## cranium85

same here my dude good thread


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## bubbagump

Good read! I was told to stay off AI for the first two weeks of my PCT...


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