# TRT and NPP



## Redemption79 (Nov 3, 2019)

I wasn't sure if this post should go in the TRT section or the cycle section, but since we're here, I'll start off with some data...

I've been on TRT for about 14 weeks at a prescribed 160mg cyp./day.  For a while, I was dosing a little higher than that, but I'm currently sticking to my recommended dose.  I was also prescribed 500iu/week HCG, and 1mg anastrozole/week.  I haven't taken the anastrozole for a couple weeks in an attempt to mitigate some joint issues (and I'm not sure I need it at these dosages), so I'd rather stockpile it for if/when I really need it. 

 I have blood work coming up in a few weeks, here are some key pre-TRT levels:

HDL: 39      (ref >39)
LDL: 161     (ref 0-99)
DHEA:  507.4 ug/dL     (ref 102.6-416.3)
Total Test:  327 ng/dL    (ref 264-916) 
SHBG:  54.4 nmol/L     (ref 16.5-55.9)
Free Test:  45.8 pg/mL     (ref 42.3-190.8)
Estradiol:  31.2 pg/mL     (ref 7.6-42.6)
Hematocrit:  42.4     (ref 37.5-51)

I only included DHEA because I thought it was odd that it was high, but total test was on the low side...
I wasn't super concerned with the high LDL, since I had recently lost some weight in a fairly short amount of time (this is known to spike cholesterol...I imagine because it's stored in fat).  I had also been in ketosis for a few months prior to and during getting bloodwork, so I wasn't that surprised with the numbers, given my fat intake.  I'm hoping those #s look better on the follow-up.

...there's a question in here somewhere, I promise.

My elbows are, along with some other joints, quite painful during and after training.  A friend of mine who has been cruising/blasting for years told me he gets joint relief from even very small doses of NPP (as low as 50mg-100/week), and suggested I try some with my test injections.  He also said he wouldn't expect it to make much of an impact on my bloodwork at that dose.  While I plan on increasing my test dosage ~2x after bloodwork and might consider adding NPP down the line, I'm fairly conservative/careful about what I put in my body and would prefer not to mess my bloodwork up at this point.

So, I'd like your feedback on the following:

1) Anyone have experience with joint pain/inflammation relief while running NPP at such a low dose?
2) Should I expect my test/est levels to be mostly unaffected if I were to run this for the next few weeks, prior to bloods?
3) If I do, should I split injections to 2x week (perhaps 80mg test + 40mg NPP each injection)?

My apologies for the lengthy post/excess data.  Believe it or not, this is me trying to keep it short.  I have a lot more questions, but this is a good start.


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## notsoswoleCPA (Nov 3, 2019)

I'm more of a Nandrolone Decanoate person and have added it to my TRT protocol in low doses throughout the year.  When I have more, I typically run it at 100 mg per week but now that I am running low, I only run 50 to 60 mg per week.  I considered NPP, but Decanoate has always been my go to.

I feel it helps with joint/tendon issues in low doses due to the collagen synthesis.  In higher doses, it also helps with packing on mass.  Unfortunately, as I have aged, bumping my testosterone to 400 mg per week with nandrolone at 400 to 600 mg per week raises my blood pressure.  It's not that bad in the grand scheme of things but just to the point where most medical professionals want to say I am close to having high blood pressure.

At low doses, the only thing that showed up in my blood work was a reduced SHBG which increased my free testosterone.  I'm talking dropped from 55 nmol/L to 29 nmol/L @ 100 mg per week in addition to my TRT dose.  Everything else was close to what it normally was... HCT, RBC, lipid profile, etc. weren't impacted by that low of a dose of Nandrolone.  This last time I dropped it a month before my lab work and my SHBG recoverd to 40 nmol/L.


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## Redemption79 (Nov 3, 2019)

notsoswoleCPA said:


> I'm more of a Nandrolone Decanoate person and have added it to my TRT protocol in low doses throughout the year.  When I have more, I typically run it at 100 mg per week but now that I am running low, I only run 50 to 60 mg per week.  I considered NPP, but Decanoate has always been my go to.
> 
> I feel it helps with joint/tendon issues in low doses due to the collagen synthesis.  In higher doses, it also helps with packing on mass.  Unfortunately, as I have aged, bumping my testosterone to 400 mg per week with nandrolone at 400 to 600 mg per week raises my blood pressure.  It's not that bad in the grand scheme of things but just to the point where most medical professionals want to say I am close to having high blood pressure.
> 
> At low doses, the only thing that showed up in my blood work was a reduced SHBG which increased my free testosterone.  I'm talking dropped from 55 nmol/L to 29 nmol/L at100 mg per week in addition to my TRT dose.  Everything else was close to what it normally was... HCT, RBC, lipid profile, etc. weren't impacted by that low of a dose of Nandrolone.  This last time I dropped it a month before my lab work and my SHBG recoverd to 40 nmol/L.


This is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for, thanks.
It's interesting that small doses of Deca lowered SHBG so significantly.  I've actually thought about looking for ways to do this as mine is high too...i wasn't aware Nandralone had this effect.  I haven't had any est-related issues, even though mine was on the high side relative to test before TRT, but if Nandralone lowers SHBG that much, I might need to be more careful.
Do you feel like you can feel a difference from the increase in total T when using small amounts of Deca with TRT your dosage?


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## Redemption79 (Nov 11, 2019)

So, for my last two injections, I've been mixing in 40-60mg NPP with my normal test cyp. dose.  I notice some pain in the area immediately as I'm injecting, and the PIP is far worse than with test alone (soreness last for 3 days).
I know, "suck it up, buttercup"...but my concern is not that I can't handle pain...it's that it's such a profound difference from such a small amount of oil.  Well, that, and the fact that I typically walk around feeling a bit beat up already from training, so any mitigation I can do to improve my quality of life is welcome.  
My source for the NPP is not the same as my source for my test...I'm not sure if the increased pain is a reaction to the NPP, or an oil/process he's using, etc. I'm also wondering if it's just going to take a couple more injections for my body to get used to NPP.  The first few times I used test I had PIP like this, then by the 4th or 5th time it was nothing.

One other curveball...for these last two injections, I switched from 23g 1.5" to 25g 1" needles.  It's very difficult to get the oil in through a 25g...I was astounded by how much of a difference it was and I think I'm doing more damage struggling to get the oil in than I was using 23g needles.  Next injection I will be using 23g to eliminate this variable, and may try warming my bottles under hot water before drawing.  I've never felt the need to before now, but perhaps it's worth a try.


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## DNW (Nov 11, 2019)

More liquid usually means more pain.  And yes. Using 25g becomes a problem if you move the needle too much struggling to inject.  Mitigate by holding barrel with one hand and the other to push...you cant always do this because of flexibility/location.  For my left glute I have my wife steady the barrel and the pain has been a lot better.  Warming the liquid will help and its dealers choice on how to accomplish that.  Massage the area afterwards, and either use a heated pad or take a hot shower/bath.


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## John Ziegler (Nov 11, 2019)

the npp ive used at 100mg per ml is painless

what mg per ml is the npp youve got ?


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## DF (Nov 11, 2019)

Redemption79 said:


> So, for my last two injections, I've been mixing in 40-60mg NPP with my normal test cyp. dose.  I notice some pain in the area immediately as I'm injecting, and the PIP is far worse than with test alone (soreness last for 3 days).
> I know, "suck it up, buttercup"...but my concern is not that I can't handle pain...it's that it's such a profound difference from such a small amount of oil.  Well, that, and the fact that I typically walk around feeling a bit beat up already from training, so any mitigation I can do to improve my quality of life is welcome.
> My source for the NPP is not the same as my source for my test...I'm not sure if the increased pain is a reaction to the NPP, or an oil/process he's using, etc. I'm also wondering if it's just going to take a couple more injections for my body to get used to NPP.  The first few times I used test I had PIP like this, then by the 4th or 5th time it was nothing.
> 
> One other curveball...for these last two injections, I switched from 23g 1.5" to 25g 1" needles.  It's very difficult to get the oil in through a 25g...I was astounded by how much of a difference it was and I think I'm doing more damage struggling to get the oil in than I was using 23g needles.  Next injection I will be using 23g to eliminate this variable, and may try warming my bottles under hot water before drawing.  I've never felt the need to before now, but perhaps it's worth a try.



That amount of NPP shouldn't be painful.  Warming the oil will help.  Use a hair dryer for about 30 sec.


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## Bro Bundy (Nov 11, 2019)

npp or test shouldnt hurt man


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## Redemption79 (Nov 12, 2019)

John Ziegler said:


> the npp ive used at 100mg per ml is painless
> 
> what mg per ml is the npp youve got ?



It's 200mg/ml.


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