# Unstable/Loose Shoulder joints, recovery help tips??



## JOMO (Dec 11, 2012)

Last year in september I had orthoscopic shoulder surgery to my left shoulder which was diagnosed with a Burkhart Lesion (labral tear) and about 15% of cartlidge chipped away which was the result of Eight dislocations over a 11yr span. Ranging from boxing/football/skiing/lifting. Horrible feeling over the years knowing you can not do certain activities in fear of separating the shoulder. My left was so bad before surgery that I could not even sleep with my arm above my waist when sleeping on my stomach. It would and many times almost has popped out when doing this on accident. 

So fast forward to a yr post op. Shoulder is doing great, nice and tight..no pain and no problems during lifting anymore, confidence is coming back getting some nice weight up. Just when the going was getting good, BAM..tweaked my right shoulder while flat benching near lockout. This was about 3 weeks ago to date. 

I knew right away it was not normal, strength steadily declining over the next two weeks trying to go light but still push through it somewhat. Finally saw my physical therapy provider and my xrays came back normal which I knew they would, nothing out of the blue he said. He started to do his int/external rotation movements with my shoulder making me apply pressure at different angles and he pinpointed it down to me having a AC Joint sprain. No pain at the top of my bicep like the last and the pain is ther but nothing like what I experienced with the left one prior. He glanced back at an old MRI and told me that my ligaments where "looser" than the average persons naturally. My doc who did my shoulder surgery a yr ago also quickly mentioned this to me with the same MRI.  He was pushing and pulling my shoulder and said that I do have more movement/serperation than a normal person should. Good news on me not being in the too hurt department but WTF!! Haha, sorry. I mean. Now I know It was possibly from bad form but this just blows. He said that lifting heavy weight with these "loose" ligaments/and or joints is almost always going to promote a negative outcome. Horrible. 

I still am doing internal and external rotations and other excercises I learned through my 5mo of phy therapy with my left shoulder. He said they will help but the ultimate solution would be rest for the next 2-8 weeks and to prob not lift heavy again. I dont want to believe it even though I should, but what have you all seen benefit someone with these types of symptoms. I thought it came 100% down to bad form for this injury, but how do you correct "loose" ligaments from what I am already doing. Help me out brothers and sisters.


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## PFM (Dec 11, 2012)

Here is what makes us men: we adapt and adjust, that what we do.

I've had to completely re-write my whole training game a few times due to injuries. Less weight isn't pussy weight, it just not as much. Training using rest/pause, partial reps and training slower and moving the weight more deliberately will induce trauma to the fibers just as well as heavy weights. It's whole other challenge to set down ego and pick up some 25's and not the 45's. 

Many greats have has injury after injury, I've adapted, if I can do it......you can do it.


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## SuperBane (Dec 11, 2012)

PFM is right.
I had an shoulder/Bicep injury about a year ago. Nothing as severe as yours but it didn't heal for months. I stopped lifting for 3 months this didn't change a thing. As soon as i went back i could "feel" it. I trained around it. Slow steady progressive. Strengthen all the muscles around the injury avoiding movements that "irritated' it.
I no longer have problems with it.

Yet now I have to contend with an injury I just got in the rotator cuff / AC area of my left arm. 275# BB shrugs... smh.
I got full range of motion ... weight just irritates it. What do you think I'm going to do in another week or so?
Start training around it.


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## ken Sass (Dec 11, 2012)

i had to lift light for a year after my last shoulder op. who did your shoulder a military doc? if so when you get out and get insurance see a GOOD ortho man. my guy did the joints of the oregon ducks when they got hurt, top guy. it makes all the differance


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## JOMO (Dec 11, 2012)

ken said:


> i had to lift light for a year after my last shoulder op. who did your shoulder a military doc? if so when you get out and get insurance see a GOOD ortho man. my guy did the joints of the oregon ducks when they got hurt, top guy. it makes all the differance



Yes, a major on base here did the surgery. I have no complaints on the shoulder. Scarring is subtle, I believe she did a good job. She did tell me though that she couldn't get all the scar tissue out..shrugs. But I am def going to get it re-looked at when I get out next year.


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## JOMO (Dec 11, 2012)

Superman said:


> PFM is right.
> I had an shoulder/Bicep injury about a year ago. Nothing as severe as yours but it didn't heal for months. I stopped lifting for 3 months this didn't change a thing. As soon as i went back i could "feel" it. I trained around it. Slow steady progressive. Strengthen all the muscles around the injury avoiding movements that "irritated' it.
> I no longer have problems with it.
> 
> ...



I took off last week and the pain drastically reduced cause its supposedly just a sprain. Today was chest and almost all pushing movements other than push-ups and cables irritates it. It's a pride/ego thing just as PFM stated. What bothers me is not just the fact that this is a current injury, but something that will always be there and possibly never get remedied. I worked around my other shoulder over 10 yrs. Just a few flukes and things i didn't think would hurt it did. 

Now gong lighter is not really a problem, but do you guys have any workouts that are proven to tighten up or strengthen the stability of the shoulder in the socket. I wasn't scheduled for a follow up or any sessions so its on me to work on this over time. I just don't want anymore permanent damage.


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## JOMO (Mar 27, 2013)

Still have this shoulder problem and it is still persisting and not letting up. I was gone for work from jan till recently and had to hold off seeing a doc till I got back. Now have a follow up this friday. Hoping to have an MRI done on the shoulder because now even writing with my right arm my shoulder starts to burn out. Hoping to get this resolved soon. Injuries suck.


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## 63Vette (Mar 27, 2013)

I posted a bit on GVT (10 sets of 10) when coming off surgery/illness/injury and I want to reiterate that this has been the best thing I have ever done for both elbows and a jacked up shoulder. 

And JOMO brother, I am going to get flamed on this but *I HATE FLAT BENCH - it's a fucking wrecking ball for shoulders.* If the bar touches your chest you are too low at if you are pushing big weight you are fucked. The old days of coming down and hitting the rolled up towel are bullshit brother.

Lay on your back on the ground in the squat rack (you can also use a smith machine) and set the bar above you. The point is your elbows will not be able to come down beyond 90*. You can also do this with dumbbells. They are called floor presses because you start with your elbows at the floor and press. Not only will it protect your shoulders, it will increase bench strength if you do get back on it (and don't go past 90* with your elbows).

I have learned and developed so damn many work arounds over the years that I am beginning to think all of my original instruction was wrong. We are doing much more weight now at a lighter body weight than ever before and flaws in technique are showing up.

Best of luck brother.* Look closely at German Volume Training!!!* And flame on bros....

Much Respect,
Vette


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## JOMO (Mar 27, 2013)

63Vette said:


> I posted a bit on GVT (10 sets of 10) when coming off surgery/illness/injury and I want to reiterate that this has been the best thing I have ever done for both elbows and a jacked up shoulder.
> 
> And JOMO brother, I am going to get flamed on this but *I HATE FLAT BENCH - it's a fucking wrecking ball for shoulders.* If the bar touches your chest you are too low at if you are pushing big weight you are fucked. The old days of coming down and hitting the rolled up towel are bullshit brother.
> 
> ...



I dont see you getting flamed bro! You are giving me sound advice. I am just now understanding that I prob wont be able to flat bench heavy in the future. While that sucks and makes me upset because I believe I haven't reached my true potential on bench, I have to work with what I got. And that is bad shoulders. 

I have yet to try floor presses but do believe in the concept, because hitting 90* or more is when the majority of the pain occurs. I have bought the "sling shot" from Mark Bell to work around the pain, but haven't used it in months because the pain is not going away. Taking weeks off benching, working rear delts more to tighten and strengthen them up. Seems to feel better but once I even grab a weight and make a pushing movement, BAM the pain is right back were it was. 

Like I thought from the beginning this isn't just a sprain and more possibly a tear because the same symptons from my other shoulder are happening now with this one. Burning sensation, loose movement of the shouler. As in when just walking I feel my shoulder moving back and forth with just the normal motion of my arm swinging naturally.


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## Jada (Mar 27, 2013)

Damn Jomo that fking sucks man! Hope u get better.


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## 63Vette (Mar 27, 2013)

JOMO said:


> I dont see you getting flamed bro! You are giving me sound advice. I am just now understanding that I prob wont be able to flat bench heavy in the future. While that sucks and makes me upset because I believe I haven't reached my true potential on bench, I have to work with what I got. And that is bad shoulders.
> 
> I have yet to try floor presses but do believe in the concept, because hitting 90* or more is when the majority of the pain occurs. I have bought the "sling shot" from Mark Bell to work around the pain, but haven't used it in months because the pain is not going away. Taking weeks off benching, working rear delts more to tighten and strengthen them up. Seems to feel better but once I even grab a weight and make a pushing movement, BAM the pain is right back were it was.
> 
> Like I thought from the beginning this isn't just a sprain and more possibly a tear because the same symptons from my other shoulder are happening now with this one. Burning sensation, loose movement of the shouler. As in when just walking I feel my shoulder moving back and forth with just the normal motion of my arm swinging naturally.




The bad news brother is that 30 years of coaching experience has taught me that if you have loose tendons/separations in one shoulder you are more likely than the average bear to have it in both shoulders.

Try GVT and keep the weight manageable and try floor presses you might even like it with dumbbells.

This sport we love.... when our mind is strong and our body fails ...we move forward....we find a way.... and you will....

Much Respect,
Vette


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## mattyice (Mar 30, 2013)

Jomo.. I had almost same exact surgery. I avoid heavy flat bench and use only db's for incline. I bought a burn machine 12lb... It has worked wonders. Best investment ever... And thera band exercises to increase flexability.


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## Big Worm (Mar 31, 2013)

Time to drop the bar and pickup the dumbbells. 

Also, It's not like you have 3 days left to live and wanted to bench 365 but you only did 335. You have all the time in the world. Heal up and then go forward.


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## JOMO (Mar 31, 2013)

Dumbells even hurt it now. But I will make due. Saw the doc and my shoulder pain has moved to my labrum. He told me there is more movement with the shoulder but it still doesn't justify an MRI. I was scheduled 4 PT appointments and a followup again late april after my final VA physical when I get out. We will see. Iv'e been doing the excercises that they have taught me a few yrs back with my other shoulder with no luck. 

Thanks Worm. Just not the path I like going down.


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## Live2Train (Apr 12, 2013)

Bro, I had surgery on my left shoulder for a labral tear and while in therapy the PT told me that I would probably be in within a year due to too much ROM on my right shoulder.  Sure enough within a year I was in having that one tightened up as well.  I don't have near the ROM that I had, but afte both surgeries I was able to bench 425 for a PR.  Then the fron of my left shoulder started hurting, so I have pretty much given up the flat bench.  Hate to say it bro, but you might need to get that one tightened up too.  Once in a while I'll get a sharp pain in the rear where the labrum is, but neither have torn again, so I'm very happy with the surgeons work.  Good luck bro!


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## JOMO (Apr 12, 2013)

I saw the doc and my pain it doesn't justify an MRI. So, instead they scheduled me four one hour phy ther appointments. Really?? Four, Ive been hurting since Dec of last year. Granted it is feeling better but thats because I have been not benching. My last pt session was yesterday and I go to germany next week to get my VA physical. Lets see what they have to say. 

And after they tightened my left shoulder up its been great. Feels solid, no movement and doesn't bother me when benching heavy. That surgery was in sept of 2011. Slowly over time with that one recuperating Im guessing too much over compensating with my right, and here we go. Right shoulder problems now Im dealing with.


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## JOMO (May 3, 2013)

Just updating this old bad boy.

I have been doing band pull a parts every day after every workout and dropped heavy db/bb bench on chest day even with the slingshot. I've been focusing more on high reps rather than heavy lower and the shoulder is feeling great. 

Did 225 on close grip bench while working tris to see how high I could go and it is feeling great. Still going to keep it light for the near future. Doing these following excercises has helped tremendously and I will still be doing them in my future routines.

Band pull a parts
Sleeper stretch 
Standing Row w/band
Internal/external rotation with bands or cables
Scapular Retraction/Protraction 
Foam rolling


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