# Should I Trust a TRT Clinic



## anewguy (Nov 3, 2016)

Hey guys,

I am curious about where my test levels stand and I am able to get a test done at a low t clinic for like $100 bucks.  If I need TRT the shots will be stupid cheap too.  They are going to do a full hormone panel and share the results with me before moving on treatment.  I don't necessarily think I have low t but for the price, I would like to check it out.  The clinics seem to be popping up in nice parts of town and targeting men on sports radio stations. 

My question is: Are these clinics shady?  Like, will they say I need TRT even if I don't just so they can profit?


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## automatondan (Nov 3, 2016)

Well, I would ask, how old are you...? If you are in your mid-30s or older, why not just get a panel done at your primary....? It wont cost the $100 and then you would know where your levels are at... im pretty sure you can get bloods covered once or twice a year under most insurances.... The reason I suggest this, is if you actually do have an issue, a) insurance will cover treatment b) anti-aging will definitely cost a LOT more, lots of little costs here and there... plus, if you actually do have something wrong, im not sure they will be your best bet for treatment options... 

However, I have heard that if you are looking for more of a TRT+ type of situation, the anti-aging clinics would more that direction... I have heard of guys getting decca at some places....


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## TrickWilliams (Nov 3, 2016)

I've been curious about these places lately. They seem to be popping up all over. Is it an age thing? How old do you have to be to let a place like this help with "anti-aging"? Do you actually have to test for low T? I've heard a lot of shady stuff at all of these places.


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## DF (Nov 3, 2016)

Anti aging clinic tend to be more liberal with test levels & trt.


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## anewguy (Nov 4, 2016)

I am only 26.  And I know that you are thinking, "that's way too young to think about TRT."  But now that I have a taste of what it felt like to have some testosterone I have been wondering if my levels have been low all along.  I won't accept TRT as an option unless I deem it necessary at this age.  Even if the TRT clinic says my levels are <300 ng/dl I will seek a second opinion.

Also, I am married and will be looking to start a family in about 1-2 years and if TRT will affect fertility it is going to be a no-go, at least for now.

This place was really surprising.  The girl was telling me on the phone that if I am below the threshold I will be tested, talked with about it, and have my first shot within 40 minutes of arriving.  Kinda scary...


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## BRICKS (Nov 4, 2016)

Very often primary care/general practice docs are hesitant to get too much into TRT.  This is not an area they specialize in.  My doc is an incredibly good internal medicine doc, but even he stated my 300 level, while low, was just in normal range and maybe low was normal for me. Ok. TRT clinic time.  Yes they have to follow guidelines for prescribing, but generally tend to be more progressive with treatment.


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## Rip (Nov 4, 2016)

Yeah, they prescribed Deca to me and never mentioned anything about caber. It took me a long time to recover from the side effects. 
I really don't think this place had any idea of what they were doing. It was a clinic in West Palm Beach Florida and they had a compounding pharmacy make their stuff. 



automatonDan said:


> Well, I would ask, how old are you...? If you are in your mid-30s or older, why not just get a panel done at your primary....? It wont cost the $100 and then you would know where your levels are at... im pretty sure you can get bloods covered once or twice a year under most insurances.... The reason I suggest this, is if you actually do have an issue, a) insurance will cover treatment b) anti-aging will definitely cost a LOT more, lots of little costs here and there... plus, if you actually do have something wrong, im not sure they will be your best bet for treatment options...
> 
> However, I have heard that if you are looking for more of a TRT+ type of situation, the anti-aging clinics would more that direction... I have heard of guys getting decca at some places....


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## DF (Nov 4, 2016)

Sweet!  A trt clinic that scripts DECA!!!  Gimme!


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## Iron1 (Nov 4, 2016)

anewguy said:


> I am only 26.  And I know that you are thinking, "that's way too young to think about TRT."  But now that I have a taste of what it felt like to have some testosterone I have been wondering if my levels have been low all along.  I won't accept TRT as an option unless I deem it necessary at this age.  Even if the TRT clinic says my levels are <300 ng/dl I will seek a second opinion.
> 
> Also, I am married and will be looking to start a family in about 1-2 years and if TRT will affect fertility it is going to be a no-go, at least for now.
> 
> This place was really surprising.  The girl was telling me on the phone that if I am below the threshold I will be tested, talked with about it, and have my first shot within 40 minutes of arriving.  Kinda scary...




Low T is low T. Doesn't matter your age.

Plenty of people have conceived children while on TRT. Even while on higher blast doses it's possible to conceive. 

As a rule of thumb, never fully trust someone who's looking to make money off of you. But, it sounds like you have your head on straight. If you pop low, get a second opinion before jumping in with both feet.


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## bigdog (Nov 4, 2016)

I was with a trt clinic for a year before going on my own with it. it worked well but was pricey....


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## anewguy (Nov 4, 2016)

Well it's low. Total test is 238 ng/dl. Normal is more like 600. They told me to wait until i have kids because it will affect fertility.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 4, 2016)

anewguy said:


> Well it's low. Total test is 238 ng/dl. Normal is more like 600. They told me to wait until i have kids because it will affect fertility.



What time of day was the 238 at? And how long ago was the 600 level at?


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## automatondan (Nov 4, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> What time of day was the 238 at? And how long ago was the 600 level at?



I think they probably told him "normal is like 600" I dont think he ever got tested before.... 
Also, I am interested what time of day you got tested as well, but 238 is super low anyways, no matter what time of day.... 
OP, if you are really this low, you could definitely get a referral from your primary to see and endo... And you should even be able to get your insurance to cover treatment... I would DEFINITELY go that route if I were you. Find out the reason you are low, there could be something else going on with your health... Also, if you end up needing TRT, you could ask about HCG (it will keep your balls working) I have also read that taking clomid while on TRT can help stimulate spermatogenesis... Doc, can you back that up?


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## automatondan (Nov 4, 2016)

automatonDan said:


> I think they probably told him "normal is like 600" I dont think he ever got tested before....
> Also, I am interested what time of day you got tested as well, but 238 is super low anyways, no matter what time of day....
> OP, if you are really this low, you could definitely get a referral from your primary to see and endo... And you should even be able to get your insurance to cover treatment... I would DEFINITELY go that route if I were you. Find out the reason you are low, there could be something else going on with your health... Also, if you end up needing TRT, you could ask about HCG (it will keep your balls working) I have also read that taking clomid while on TRT can help stimulate spermatogenesis... Doc, can you back that up?



Actually, I was just doing some reading (the study is copyright protected so I cant post it), but it appears that dosing 50 mg of Clomid during TRT therapy every other day can raise FSH and LH significantly and thus stimulate spermatogenesis, but only in *secondary* hypogonadism... In primary hypogonadism, FSH and LH are typically already elevated, so the issue is not from a lack of FSH and LH, but more an issue testicular failure... So, it matters whether you are primary or secondary in terms of attempting to use Clomid to stimulate spermatogenesis... I believe HCG would still work for you though if you were primary...


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## anewguy (Nov 6, 2016)

Yeah it was like 10 am. 600-800 is what they told me for my age. It could be low from the cycle I finished 6 months ago so I am trying clomid again and taking ZMA and D3 daily


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## gymrat827 (Nov 7, 2016)

That's super low.  Super low.  

Clomid should help.  D3/zma or any oral supplement is going to do jack shit.  
If Clomid works you will be able to tell. 

But I'd still retest 6wks after u start, if your still below 400, I'd be getting some tes.  One way or another.  


GL


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 7, 2016)

anewguy said:


> Yeah it was like 10 am. 600-800 is what they told me for my age. It could be low from the cycle I finished 6 months ago so I am trying clomid again and taking ZMA and D3 daily



Yea it's low. 

Don't listen to that hoopla about your age. It's BS. What was your last cycle, doses and compounds, how long was it, and what kind of pct did you do if any?


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## anewguy (Nov 7, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Yea it's low.
> 
> Don't listen to that hoopla about your age. It's BS. What was your last cycle, doses and compounds, how long was it, and what kind of pct did you do if any?



Well I'm not as concerned with my age as I am with fertility. And that's why the clinic said I should wait.  They said HCG and clomid would help with fertility but that it might not be enough.  Honestly it's a big concern because children are important to me.  Will probably start trying at the first of 2017.  

I am on day 4 of clomid and the vitamins so we will see.  Gymrat, have you tried the zma/d3?  I am curious because a lot of people say it helps.  Obviously, it's not going to be like TRT or anything but at this point anything helps.

Last cycle:  (4th overall cycle)
Began 12/22/15
Week 1 - 7: 
T/F 375mg Test cyp 

Weeks 8 - 15  (Second run w/ tren)
M 250 cyp & 150 tren A
W 250 cyp & 150 tren A
F 250 cyp & 150 tren A

Weeks 13-17 
Add anavar 75mg /day

PCT started on 4/22 
Ends on 5/20
clomid 50/50/50/50
nolva 40/40/20/20


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## anewguy (Nov 9, 2016)

Bump.  Doc where you at?

Anyone got experience with trying to use ZMA & Vit. D to boost test production?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 10, 2016)

anewguy said:


> Well I'm not as concerned with my age as I am with fertility. And that's why the clinic said I should wait.  They said HCG and clomid would help with fertility but that it might not be enough.  Honestly it's a big concern because children are important to me.  Will probably start trying at the first of 2017.
> 
> I am on day 4 of clomid and the vitamins so we will see.  Gymrat, have you tried the zma/d3?  I am curious because a lot of people say it helps.  Obviously, it's not going to be like TRT or anything but at this point anything helps.
> 
> ...



What I mean by my comment on age was don't listen to the BS that your levels should be XYZ bc you're a certain age. 

238 levels for that time of day is pretty much in hypogonadal territory as levels will only drop as the day progresses. Do you have LH E2 and FSH values? Any past blood work to compare to? Are you symptomatic? You might possibly consider a restart type deal but that only could potentially work if you're secondary hypogonadal and not if you're primary. 

At your age, especially if not symptomatic, I would try and see if it can be determined what's wrong and fixed before hopping on TRT. TRT won't 100% kill your chances of having kids but it will make it a bit tougher. Clomid, HCG, and temporarily coming off TRT are all possible options to help when the time comes. The risk of never having kids solely due to TRT is ultimately pretty  low but only you can assess what level of risk is acceptable for you. 

ZMA and vitamin D will do jack shit for your test levels unless there's a zinc or D deficiency.


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## anewguy (Nov 10, 2016)

Thanks Doc.  I am going to keep taking the clomid at 25mg a day for 4 total weeks (3 more) and then go get a full panel done.  I don't have a baseline and started AAS before a blood test so I have no idea, but after seeing the changes in my body and attitude when I'm on AAS, I suspect my test was always somewhat low.  I know thats not for certain, and the blood test will be needed.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 10, 2016)

anewguy said:


> Thanks Doc.  I am going to keep taking the clomid at 25mg a day for 4 total weeks (3 more) and then go get a full panel done.  I don't have a baseline and started AAS before a blood test so I have no idea, but after seeing the changes in my body and attitude when I'm on AAS, I suspect my test was always somewhat low.  I know thats not for certain, and the blood test will be needed.



Clomid won't be the solution if you end up being primary. That's why E2, LH and FSH are so important to have. Did these markers get tested by any chance and if so, can you post them here? If they haven't been tested then I would give some thought to stopping the clomid, doing a washout period, and then more extensive blood work.


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## automatondan (Nov 10, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Clomid won't be the solution if you end up being primary. That's why E2, LH and FSH are so important to have. Did these markers get tested by any chance and if so, can you post them here? If they haven't been tested then I would give some thought to stopping the clomid, doing a washout period, and then more extensive blood work.



Doc, for the purpose of other people reading and searching threads, what would the difference in bloodwork look like between being primary or secondary? (i.e.- E2, LH, FSH, Test, T3, T4, ect....) I think it would be helpful for people trying to understand their situation....


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## DocDePanda187123 (Nov 11, 2016)

automatonDan said:


> Doc, for the purpose of other people reading and searching threads, what would the difference in bloodwork look like between being primary or secondary? (i.e.- E2, LH, FSH, Test, T3, T4, ect....) I think it would be helpful for people trying to understand their situation....



E2 is included bc it's a negative feedback to the HPTA for TT production.

Primary hypo is defined as normal to high LH/FSH with low test whereas secondary is defined as low LH/FSH with low test. This helps determine where the problem might lie and if it's treatable or not. 

Primary means normal to high LH and FSH but low test so the hypothalamus is sending GNRH and the pituitary is picking it up to make LH but the testes are not acting upon the signal, hence why primary is a problem with the nuts. 

Secondary means low LH and FSH so there's a problem with the system before the testes. The testes can be stimulated to produce TT but they're not receiving the signal from the hypothalamus or pituitary to do so.


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## bvs (Nov 11, 2016)

DF said:


> Sweet!  A trt clinic that scripts DECA!!!  Gimme!



Dave palumbo has a video where he goes to a clinic and gets prescribed 400mg test 200mg deca and the guy tries to give him GH but he says no and goes for peptides instead


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## Rip (Nov 20, 2016)

They also had me taking 1 mg. Anastrozole twice per week and one tamoxifen twice per week. They couldn't figure out how to correct my side effects. This was back when I first started TRT. I don't go through them any more. 
They were really expensive too. 






Rip said:


> Yeah, they prescribed Deca to me and never mentioned anything about caber. It took me a long time to recover from the side effects.
> I really don't think this place had any idea of what they were doing. It was a clinic in West Palm Beach Florida and they had a compounding pharmacy make their stuff.


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## BRICKS (Nov 20, 2016)

My wife and I recently switched clinics because lately the business practices have become very shady. The prescribing provider is legit and I doubt knows fully what's going on with the gal running the clinic.  The new guy we're seeing has been doing TRT for years, has about 200 clients, and is the medical director at the regional large medical center.  We know for sure he's legit.  

Any legitimate clinc/provider you should easily be able to do some homework on.

Incidently, our new guy told us that Florida is really bad for clinics hiring retired doc who just crank out scripts untill they lose their license, then on to the next one.  Thus was in reference to pain meds, but could apply just as easily to hormone replacement.  

Again, just do the homework on the facility and the provider.


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## Lop (Nov 20, 2016)

I agree. You have to do your homework. I looked at a few places before I settled on the one I'm using. Ask questions. Don't just take what they have to say and go with it.


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## glycomann (Nov 20, 2016)

anewguy said:


> Well it's low. Total test is 238 ng/dl. Normal is more like 600. They told me to wait until i have kids because it will affect fertility.



When did you complete your last cycle and did you use any PCT drugs afterward? It can take a long time to recover. Back in the 90s when I look a 10 year break from this shit it took me over a year to recover but then I was running in the mid 600s and was fine for a long long time.


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