# switching sumo



## heavydeads83 (Feb 15, 2013)

my conventional deadlift has pretty much came to a stand still and it's very frustrating so i'm going to try switching to sumo for a while to see if it will get my conventional up.  i've rarely pulled sumo but i did 405 for 7 reps last night so that was somewhat encouraging.  any of you bro's deadlift both ways for the same reason?


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 15, 2013)

I can pull both ways and they are roughly equal.  With Sumo I'm more efficient; with conventional I have speed.  Give it a try. Who knows. Are you doing dynamic work though?  What does your deadlift training look like?


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 15, 2013)

I guess mine aren't roughly equal because i haven't pulled sumo much.  i honestly felt like i was faster sumo because i wasn't having to pull the weight as far but i feel stronger conventional because it's what i've always done.  yeah i'm doing dynamic work.  it switches about every week but we did 10 sets of 2 with chains yesterday with short rest.  not sure what you meant by deadlift training bro,  but sometimes we do pin pulls, some days we do deficit pulls, block pulls,  reverse bad pulls, etc.


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 15, 2013)

*reverse band


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 15, 2013)

heavydeads83 said:


> I guess mine aren't roughly equal because i haven't pulled sumo much.  i honestly felt like i was faster sumo because i wasn't having to pull the weight as far but i feel stronger conventional because it's what i've always done.  yeah i'm doing dynamic work.  it switches about every week but we did 10 sets of 2 with chains yesterday with short rest.  not sure what you meant by deadlift training bro,  but sometimes we do pin pulls, some days we do deficit pulls, block pulls,  reverse bad pulls, etc.



By training I'm trying to get an idea of your work capacity.  The more I deadlift the more I can deadlift. Opposite of what the old timers will tell you. I'd been told before "the best way to build up your deadlift is to not deadlift. Just squat heavy."

bullshit....


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 15, 2013)

we only do each core lift once a week but sometimes do extra assistance work on other days.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 15, 2013)

Consider speed deads at 50 to 60% after squats (prob monday?) and then (probably friday?) when you pull go heavier... I loved that building up my pull.  Can't keep that up forever though.


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 15, 2013)

thanks man.  definitely gotta switch things up every few months.  i've been doing some stiff leg dumbell deads on squat days but it's about time to try something different so i may throw in an extra speed day like you suggested.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 15, 2013)

heavydeads83 said:


> thanks man.  definitely gotta switch things up every few months.  i've been doing some stiff leg dumbell deads on squat days but it's about time to try something different so i may throw in an extra speed day like you suggested.



I like those with the dumbbells... Dimmel deads are good too as well as glute bridges and GHR's.


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 15, 2013)

do you do snatch grip deads?  we've been doing those off of a 2 inch pad and that shit sucks pretty hard.


----------



## Azog (Feb 15, 2013)

heavydeads83 said:


> do you do snatch grip deads?  we've been doing those off of a 2 inch pad and that shit sucks pretty hard.



hands down my least favorite exercise on the planet.


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 15, 2013)

Azog said:


> hands down my least favorite exercise on the planet.



haha yeah they suck pretty bad dude!  they hit the upper back pretty hard though.


----------



## DADAWG (Feb 15, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Consider speed deads at 50 to 60% after squats (prob monday?) and then (probably friday?) when you pull go heavier... I loved that building up my pull.  Can't keep that up forever though.



speed deads are good IF you can maintain decent form , a lot of people look like a spasdic chimpanzee when they do any kind oof speed work.


----------



## NbleSavage (Feb 15, 2013)

Sumo, checking-in. I pull conventional roughly once every 2 weeks, and then mostly low reps / heavy weight. Sumo is my go-to stance for rep work, 1x a week. 

Disclaimer: I'm not a PL, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 16, 2013)

DADAWG said:


> speed deads are good IF you can maintain decent form , a lot of people look like a spasdic chimpanzee when they do any kind oof speed work.



i'm not one to just go apeshit with the bar when i do speed work.  i'll usually at least take a few seconds to reset before each pull and just be explosive.  i've seen people look stupid while doing dynamic work though.


----------



## DADAWG (Feb 16, 2013)

heavydeads83 said:


> i'm not one to just go apeshit with the bar when i do speed work.  i'll usually at least take a few seconds to reset before each pull and just be explosive.  i've seen people look stupid while doing dynamic work though.



you have the right idea. the move itself should be fast and explosive but take as much time as needed between reps to reset for a text book rep.


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 17, 2013)

DADAWG said:


> you have the right idea. the move itself should be fast and explosive but take as much time as needed between reps to reset for a text book rep.



exactly.  a lot of people think its about doing 5 reps or whatever as fast as possible.  definitely the wrong idea.


----------



## Dtownry (Feb 18, 2013)

Totally different animals. Conventional is king but really depends what your training goals are.  On the speed work: I like to re-grip the bar each time so my speed is slower than usual.  You get better work that way as once you get into a groove you can start pumping out reps and lose form, possible cause injury, etc.  Though Stan Efferding might argue that and I probably wouldn't argue back...


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 18, 2013)

Dtownry said:


> Totally different animals. Conventional is king but really depends what your training goals are.  On the speed work: I like to re-grip the bar each time so my speed is slower than usual.  You get better work that way as once you get into a groove you can start pumping out reps and lose form, possible cause injury, etc.  Though Stan Efferding might argue that and I probably wouldn't argue back...



Why is conventional king?


----------



## Dtownry (Feb 18, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Why is conventional king?



I should have clarified...it is King for me or others like me because of my strength goals, primarily posterior chain development and the strength benefits that come with that including sports performance.  The short pull in the sumo (easier heavy pull typically depending on body proportions) coupled with a quad emphasis does make sense for physique for sure.  Still I think if you want to be strong as fuck you pull conventional...if you want sexy quads squat oly and front and pull sumo more.  

Plus I think sumo looks as gay as a bull with tits, but hey that's just me.

I thought this was interesting:  primallifter.com/comparing-sumo-and-conventional-deadlifts/


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 18, 2013)

Dtownry said:


> I should have clarified...it is King for me or others like me because of my strength goals, primarily posterior chain development and the strength benefits that come with that including sports performance.  The short pull in the sumo (easier heavy pull typically depending on body proportions) coupled with a quad emphasis does make sense for physique for sure.  Still I think if you want to be strong as fuck you pull conventional...if you want sexy quads squat oly and front and pull sumo more.
> 
> Plus I think sumo looks as gay as a bull with tits, but hey that's just me.
> 
> I thought this was interesting:  primallifter.com/comparing-sumo-and-conventional-deadlifts/



Your link doesn't work... And I pull sumo.  It is not easier than pulling conventional.  I can pull both ways with pretty much equal results.  If you're pulling with your quads when pulling sumo then you don't know what you're doing.


----------



## dj920 (Feb 18, 2013)

Dtownry said:


> I thought this was interesting:  primallifter.com/comparing-sumo-and-conventional-deadlifts/



This.  I have a long torso / short arms (~7:6 ratio) and switching to primarily sumo turned DL from pretty great to my absolute favorite lift. I still pull conventional a couple times / month to keep up form and for posterior chain training, but the impact on heavy back squats the same / next day is usually significant --- almost never a problem with sumo.

(That being said, I find it more awkward to do sumo partial deadlifts (rack/pin).  Back when I was doing conventional-only, swapping in some speed work with conventional rack pulls helped with some lockout problems I was having.  Not sure if it's the shorter bar-path or what, but I can never get partial sumo to feel quite right.)


----------



## Dtownry (Feb 19, 2013)

PillarofBalance said:


> Your link doesn't work... And I pull sumo.  It is not easier than pulling conventional.  I can pull both ways with pretty much equal results.  If you're pulling with your quads when pulling sumo then you don't know what you're doing.



Yea I'm a FNG so it won't let me post links. I just pasted the URL in.   

So you pull Sumo eh?  Do you wear gloves too? :-0


----------



## PillarofBalance (Feb 19, 2013)

Dtownry said:


> Yea I'm a FNG so it won't let me post links. I just pasted the URL in.
> 
> So you pull Sumo eh?  Do you wear gloves too? :-0



You mouthy mother fucker!!! You're gonna fit in great here!


----------



## Dtownry (Feb 19, 2013)

HA!  Yea well what can you do? Who knows, we might even end up being friends you grumpy SOB.


----------



## heavydeads83 (Feb 19, 2013)

sumo is harder in my opinion that's why i've always pulled conventional. when i pull sumo i always feel like i get bent too far out over the bar.  working on it though.


----------

