# HRT Guys running cycles or "Blasts"



## Cashout (Sep 17, 2012)

In the past few weeks a couple of you have emailed me for help with your cycles or as you called it your "blast phase" of HRT.

I think a few of you may have taken my responses as "personal" and it was not meant to be so.

So, I want to publicly state my opinion on HRT guys running cycles or "blasts."

In 99.9% of the case I will be 100% opposed to it.

My reasons are simple and obvious. 

First, most HRT guys are not in very good shape to start with. High body fat, lipid profile issues,  blood preasure problems, ED, physical aliments, and all sorts of other issues are all very common among HRT guys. Running a cycle increases the potential for these pre-existing issue to amplify in intensity.

Second, a lot of HRT guys are already on all kinds of other meds for the above noted issues. Mixing in additional AAS is may have a complicating effect.

Next, and most importantly, a lot of HRT guys need serious work on their diet. That is the foundation for everything else including HRT.

Additionally, those HRT guys over the age of 40 are potentially compounding the opportunity for cardiac episodes by running cycles in addition to their prescribed HRT.

At the end of it all, it comes down to risk-to-return. Running cycles is not worth the risk to add a couple of pounds of muscle. 

I can say these things having been on both sides of the discussion and spent an enormous amount of time engaged in this area. 

Be healthy and wise in your HRT!

Cash


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## gymrat827 (Sep 17, 2012)

x2x on his advice.

it would be one thing for a guy who is on 100mg a wk to goto 200mg, but not 400-500mg.  thats just asking for trouble.  stay safe, stay healthy#:-S


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## 63Vette (Sep 18, 2012)

Very good advice.


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## Onlythebestwilldo (Sep 18, 2012)

Interesting cashout. I'm just waiting on blood results (age 28)and endo reckons I'm low on Test. I have never cycled before and have been thinking that if I do test low it was my green card to smash loads more test. You have changed my view on it. Now I'm hoping my levels are ok and then start my 1st AAS cycle. 

Having said that I am hoping to find out somethin that I can change to give me a better quality of life.

Is this black and white? I don't have any Blood pressure or body fat issues. Just tired, personality flatline, no spark and little depression from time to time. Shoul d I be fuckin wit AAS's??


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## Cashout (Sep 18, 2012)

First and foremost, HRT is about improving one's health. 

Too many guys see it as a "green card to smash loads more test" and that is a terribly misguide perspective.

In essence, one is taking the position that they have health issues and their answer will be to load up on test. Not a wise move.

Since you say you have not cycled, I'd ask why would you start now? Obviously, it has not been important enough in the past for you to assume the risks of AAS.

If HRT is prescribed, let that be your remedy toward improving your healthy. Don't complicate things out of the gate by self-administering AAS.





Onlythebestwilldo said:


> Interesting cashout. I'm just waiting on blood results (age 28)and endo reckons I'm low on Test. I have never cycled before and have been thinking that if I do test low it was my green card to smash loads more test. You have changed my view on it. Now I'm hoping my levels are ok and then start my 1st AAS cycle.
> 
> Having said that I am hoping to find out somethin that I can change to give me a better quality of life.
> 
> Is this black and white? I don't have any Blood pressure or body fat issues. Just tired, personality flatline, no spark and little depression from time to time. Shoul d I be fuckin wit AAS's??


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## Four1Thr33 (Sep 18, 2012)

I def agree to the above described situation but I believe I fit into that .01% group lol
Have zero health issues other then low T and it was caused by a drug addicted childhood
I have successfully quit drinking and drugs, dropped all my body fat , did 4 years in the marines and work construction actively.  So I don't see any other risk in my personal situation that's different from a totally healthy person , and my self having low T


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## Lulu66 (Sep 18, 2012)

I agree, theres no reason to put yourself at risk you are having health issues.


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## Onlythebestwilldo (Sep 18, 2012)

Four1Thr33 said:


> I def agree to the above described situation but I believe I fit into that .01% group lol
> Have zero health issues other then low T and it was caused by a drug addicted childhood
> I have successfully quit drinking and drugs, dropped all my body fat , did 4 years in the marines and work construction actively.  So I don't see any other risk in my personal situation that's different from a totally healthy person , and my self having low T



If I do have low test it was caused by similar issues, 6 year of abusing rec drugs between 17 and 23yo. Generally I'm healthy just in stinking mood most of the time and been very hard to make gains in the gym. I too have seriously cleaned up my act.


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## transcend2007 (Sep 18, 2012)

Cashout as usual you are the voice of reason.  I am assuming however that you advise for AAS use is not only for those of us older guys on trt but also younger guys as well.  Woud you guidelines be similar that only a very small percentage of younger body builders should cycle as well (like 99.9% are not qualified to cycle nor use AAS due to lack of natural results)?


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## robot lord (Sep 18, 2012)

Speaking solely for myself I believe took my age and health into consideration before beginning HRT. In my late 30s I knew I was over weight and needed to shed the BF. I have been an active guy since highschool and have done my share of weight training and cardio. Like many men I have had periods in my life where I let ditractions slowly pull me away from the healthy lifestyle only to return to what made me feel and look better. When I was younger it was to attract women and the respect of other people. Now married with kids and 40 my head and heart are in this strictly for me. I want to look and feel as young as I can for as long as I can.  
 With that being said about a year or so prior to HRT I changed up my diet, hit the gym and dropped 30lbs before I even contacted Maximus. Further more to celebrate turning 40 I had a complete physical exam including blood work. Even at my heaviest my blood pressure was always decent but was now really good even for a much younger man. So now with the mental thumbs up I decided it was time to move forward with HRT to address my lower than desired test level. Was it absolutely needed with a 436 test score? No it was not and I will man up and say I wanted more. I started my journey with HRT and decide to at some point run a cycle. I had run a few in my younger days with very little info other than some bro science at the gym. So this time I wanted to do some research and weed through the opinions and find some facts.

 Not sure I would call it a cycle but I ran some var along side my HRT for about 10 weeks. Took off a bit amd am now 5 weeks into my first real cycle. I have made some mistakes along the way but have caught them early through blood work and asking questions here at SI. Fortunetly I have made some very good friends here. I stayed away from compounds like tren etc. and opted for more geezer friendly compounds like var, cyp and mast. I also gained the trust of some guys that got me on board with the RIPS. Do I need all this aas or gh? No I do not! Does anyone on this board need AAS? I think not. Do we want to look and feel a certain way? Does AAS and GH get us there? Yes it does when coupled with research,hard work,DIET and some common sense!
  Many of us subscribed to the bigger, better, faster more mind set when we younger but with age comes some restraint and a more clear picture of what's more important. We all want to fullfil  an idea os self image but let's be real gents. If you are chock full of health issues and the   meds to treat them do you really think it's time to throw gas on the fire? No one likes to here no or you are just not healthy enough to withstand the sides of AAS. Ask yourself "Am I ready to kill myself or take off many memorable years with the wife,the kids and even the grand kids from my life. I think my loved ones would rather have me fat,relatively healthy and alive. Most of us weren't greek gods when we met or married our wives anyway(accept cashout LOL!!!). By the way cashout I think of you every damn time I am at Sam's Club. I really liked your diet thread and pics of the items in your cart. My cart now looks much like yours and I can only hope I can look half as good as you bro! PS I would have eaten the wedding cake! LMFAO!!!

Use your head guys or start going over your will with your lawyer. Oh and opt for DNR cause you will just be a bourden!


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## Cashout (Sep 18, 2012)

I will not win many friends by writing this but in 27 years of living this lifestyle, I have come to the conclusion that about 85% of the guys that do AAS have no business doing them whatsoever.

Too often I see guys with no discipline, work ethic, commitment, whatever you want to call it, jump on a cycle and think that it is going to magically transform them. They do it on a whim without much thought or consideration for the potential implications because at that moment in their respective lives, getting big seems like a cool idea.

In my opinion, no one should move to AAS until they have begun to approximate their own natural potential through a commitment to diet and training. 

For some, this may take longer than others and most never get to this point. Once you get to that point, then you may be ready to take the next step.

At that point, the next step is always risk-to-return evaluation of one's situation. 

The big question there is "What do I want to get out of this and what am I willing to risk to get it?" 

So, there it is, AAS is serious business in my opinion and I hate seeing guys doing AAS if they going to half-ass it or do it on a whim or without some real commitment and clear purpose to their plan.









transcend2007 said:


> Cashout as usual you are the voice of reason.  I am assuming however that you advise for AAS use is not only for those of us older guys on trt but also younger guys as well.  Woud you guidelines be similar that only a very small percentage of younger body builders should cycle as well (like 99.9% are not qualified to cycle nor use AAS due to lack of natural results)?


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## 63Vette (Sep 18, 2012)

I am not on TRT or HRT, I never have been... it would be nice though to have a doctor approved script in case I find myself defending my use of hormones in court. That being said, my self prescribed cruising that started for me at 50 was the best thing I ever did for energy, mood, focus and sex drive. I have been around and in sports and gyms my entire life at all levels. What I have learned is that once you put genetics aside this is the order of importance I believe exists in building a physique that women want to touch and men want to emulate:

1) Diet
2) Hydration
3) Workout Routine and effort applied to it
4) Sleep
5) AAS

AAS is a tremendous aid for recovery and temporary strength gains but is behind diet, hydration, work ethic and routine, sleep/rest in importance in my opinion. TRT and HRT however can do great things to men who have either naturally or for medical reasons have seen a significant decline in their own natural testosterone production. 

I am as healthy as a horse so I can only speak for myself. I do agree that if you have existing health issues or are not already fit, working hard and eating right you have no business with anything other than your Dr. Prescribed TRT.

My two cents,
Vette


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## Rip (Sep 19, 2012)

At 39 and 40yrs old, I competed in Masters competition and ended up placing 2nd. I was totally natural until about 3 yrs ago. Now I'm 54, but nobody believes it. I often wonder if it was the time of day ir a false reading that caused me to begin HRT. I would like to try to find out. I've done post cycles before, because clinics who prescribed to me said I needed to cycle. I've had rejuvenation clinics put me on Test, Deca, and Anavar. Other tmes it was just Test. 
The most TEST I did was 300/week for 12 weeks. Then I went back to 200



> In my opinion, no one should move to AAS until they have begun to approximate their own natural potential through a commitment to diet and training.


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## Rip (Sep 19, 2012)

Oh...also, I don't have any health problems other than the fact that I'm on HRT. I've always been serious about diet and training. I eat clean, year-round. I haven't had white flour or white sugar since I was 18 yrs old. I eat mostly fish, fowl, and eggs(all whites/1 yolk). 
Although, most protein bars have some sugar. That's probably the most desert-like food I ever eat.


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## Onlythebestwilldo (Sep 19, 2012)

I reckon this forum would be a lonely place if every one fully shared the above opinions.


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## Cashout (Sep 19, 2012)

Perhaps but I be inclined to believe that there would many more people in a lot better health and in a lot better shape if they did share those opinions.



Onlythebestwilldo said:


> I reckon this forum would be a lonely place if every one fully shared the above opinions.


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## Rip (Sep 19, 2012)

Really? Why? I'm going to try to figure this one out. 
I'm just telling my story. 
It's not an opinion, it's who I am and what i've been through. I'm also a recovering addict of 26 years. I don't usually disclose that, but It seemed like you needed to hear something negative. 


> I reckon this forum would be a lonely place if every one fully shared the above opinions.


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## Rip (Sep 19, 2012)

I would like to do cycles or blasts. I'm not opposed to it or any one else doing it. 
Ronnie Coleman, Schwarzenegger, and Stallone do it. LOL. No biggy. I'm just saying what I've done up 'tiil now. I'm just saying that I believe I laid the foundation he was talking about, before I started taking AAS. 
I was also wondering if doing his Plan would be worth it for me to try. 
I'm doing 200 Deca and 200 Test right now.


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## Rip (Sep 19, 2012)

I wasn't referring to you (Cashout), I was referring to the person who responded to my post. I just can't believe there are people who think that way.


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## Cashout (Sep 19, 2012)

Rip I know to whom you were referring and I think you and I have a very similar perspective on this topic.

The fact is most guys out there don't need AAS but that is not what they want to hear. The truth is not something they welcome.

They want to here other guys tell them "You are g2g - do it man!"






Rip said:


> I wasn't referring to you (Cashout), I was referring to the person who responded to my post. I just can't believe there are people who think that way.


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## Onlythebestwilldo (Sep 20, 2012)

Cashout said:


> Rip I know to whom you were referring and I think you and I have a very similar perspective on this topic.
> 
> The fact is most guys out there don't need AAS but that is not what they want to hear. The truth is not something they welcome.
> 
> They want to here other guys tell them "You are g2g - do it man!"



Guys what I was getting at was. If everyone who is on this forum, whether it be for researching AAS's, taking AAS's, Considering taking AAS. It basically sounds like your ever telling everyone don't do it, don't take AASs or if u did u shouldn't have. 

I personally think that 100% of people DON'T need AAS's. But it's something that we are all very interested in and the number of new users that don't fall into that 0.1% is still going to increase. 

Cashout I don't wanna just hear 'your g2g'. I want to hear somethin more constructive about why exactly 99.9% of people on AAS's were wrong to start.. 

Do you regret starting AAS's??


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## BigFella (Sep 20, 2012)

Hey OnlyTheBest: that isn't what Cashout said. The 0.1% he was referring to are the guys on TRT who want to blast. He is saying that we're not healthy enough to do so, and in my case at least he is dead right. 



Onlythebestwilldo said:


> Guys what I was getting at was. If everyone who is on this forum, whether it be for researching AAS's, taking AAS's, Considering taking AAS. It basically sounds like your ever telling everyone don't do it, don't take AASs or if u did u shouldn't have.
> 
> I personally think that 100% of people DON'T need AAS's. But it's something that we are all very interested in and the number of new users that don't fall into that 0.1% is still going to increase.
> 
> ...


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## Cashout (Sep 20, 2012)

I stated *very clearly* in my original post to start this thread why 99.9% of guys on HRT don't need to do cycles or blast - they are listed numbers 1 through 4 - go read it again if you missed it.

No I don't regret having done AAS. Again, because I met all four of the criteria I listed in my original post plus I had a well-designed plan and executed it with a clear purpose in mind.






Onlythebestwilldo said:


> Guys what I was getting at was. If everyone who is on this forum, whether it be for researching AAS's, taking AAS's, Considering taking AAS. It basically sounds like your ever telling everyone don't do it, don't take AASs or if u did u shouldn't have.
> 
> I personally think that 100% of people DON'T need AAS's. But it's something that we are all very interested in and the number of new users that don't fall into that 0.1% is still going to increase.
> 
> ...


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## Cashout (Sep 20, 2012)

Right on point BF - it's about one's health first and in the overwhelming majority of cases, as I have already stated, HRT guys have to focus on health first.



BigFella said:


> Hey OnlyTheBest: that isn't what Cashout said. The 0.1% he was referring to are the guys on TRT who want to blast. He is saying that we're not healthy enough to do so, and in my case at least he is dead right.


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## robot lord (Sep 20, 2012)

I agree with cashout. Despite the fact that I probably fall in his category of shouldn't be cycling. I understand completely what he is saying and respect it. I did not push my self to my genetic potential before starting HRT/AAS. I did put in about a year and a half of work prior to HRT but I do understand that is a drop in the bucket compared to what it would have taken to max out naturally. Do I regret it? No. I do however have a realistic plan for myself. Two lean bulk cycles a year and HRT. I have given up on the idea of trying to look like a pro bodybuilder. The amount of AAS it takes and the toll on my body are not, as cashout stated, worth the risk for the gain. I do struggle with this from time to time and understand the psychological aspect of thinking a magical transformation will take place if I use the right compounds and dosages. Then reason steps and I realize all that mass is not why I started HRT. I actually have enough at 240 and need to cut it up. I think a solid 225 would be my goal. What I am saying is I know what he means and why he thinks the way he does. Too many of us rely too heavily on AAS. In closing I am glad I am here and this thread makes me think I should step it up a bit and rely more so on my diet and effort. I think that was what cashout intended.


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## Four1Thr33 (Sep 20, 2012)

I love a good informational debate !!


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## Onlythebestwilldo (Sep 20, 2012)

I respect all your opinions and I have found this discussion beneficial. Thanks guys i alway find enlightening info on this forum.


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## NbleSavage (Sep 21, 2012)

Great thread, great exchange of ideas.


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## Rip (Sep 21, 2012)

I understand what Cashout is trying to say and I appreciate the truth. I agree our health should be first priority.
The clinic I was connected with had me doing "cycles" but there was a Doctor onboard and they had me get a physical and complete blood workup on a regular basis. They had me believing that I had to take a break every 10-12 weeks to clean out my receptors. They would have me do a PCT, then go back to HRT or do a cycle of TEST, DECA, and Anavar. It was only 300 test, 150 Deca, and 50 anavar. So according to the guys on this forum, I should have just went back to my regular dose of Test.
I don't understand why that clinic had me doing PCTs, when they knew i was on HRT. 
Is it because they have no dea what they are doing?


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## Cashout (Sep 21, 2012)

They were not doing HRT. They were doing doctor-supervised cycles as you mentioned.



Rip said:


> I understand what Cashout is trying to say and I appreciate the truth. I agree our health should be first priority.
> The clinic I was connected with had me doing "cycles" but there was a Doctor onboard and they had me get a physical and complete blood workup on a regular basis. They had me believing that I had to take a break every 10-12 weeks to clean out my receptors. They would have me do a PCT, then go back to HRT or do a cycle of TEST, DECA, and Anavar. It was only 300 test, 150 Deca, and 50 anavar. So according to the guys on this forum, I should have just went back to my regular dose of Test.
> I don't understand why that clinic had me doing PCTs, when they knew i was on HRT.
> *Is it because they have no dea what they are doing?*


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## Tilltheend (Sep 21, 2012)

Good words for those HRT guys!


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## BigFella (Sep 21, 2012)

This thread is an excellent example of why SI is such a bloody good forum. (Because we're so intelligent, I think.)


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## Rip (Sep 21, 2012)

yeah, I agree that's what it really was, but my original blood-work was proof that I was diagnosed with Hypogonadism.  They still said I needed to cycle off of itafter 10-12 weeks. 



Cashout said:


> They were not doing HRT. They were doing doctor-supervised cycles as you mentioned.


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## BigFella (Oct 6, 2012)

Onlythebestwilldo said:


> I personally think that 100% of people DON'T need AAS's.


Onlythebestwilldo: I'm bumping this thread because it deserves it, and also because I'll argue (nicely) with your quote. A lot of us TRT guys *need* AASs. I mightn't have made it to here without TRT. The depression was killing me, nearly literally, and there are plenty of people like me.


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## Onlythebestwilldo (Oct 13, 2012)

Fair enough BF. I just got refused trt cus my total test is 399 at 28 yo. So I have been proscribe LDN(low dose naltrexone) ain't started yet because I know little bout this type of treatment. So I'm glad trt is working for u.


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## dk8594 (May 29, 2018)

Bumping this since we have a lot of new TRT guys talking about cycles.


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## Elivo (May 29, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> Bumping this since we have a lot of new TRT guys talking about cycles.



Yeah, i would be one of them, and i do agree with the main post on this issue, i see no reason for someone that has a lot of health issues to do a cycle, TRT or not. 

In my case, the ONLY issue i have going on is the low T.  No high blood pressure, no liver, kidney or heart problems. Recent blood 
shows everything to be right in line with nothing high or low as far as kidney, liver , cholesterol or anything else.

The only part of this i feel i personally fall into is the part about diet and losing some extra weight first. And that is currently a work in progress. 

While the main post is very valid, i dont feel that everyone that is on TRT falls into this. There are those of us out there that do not have any health issues and are on it due to low T symptoms only.  And i think that people in that category, with the proper education, and take the appropriate steps as far as training and diet, should not have issues running a cycle if they chose to. Obviously it runs the same risks as everyone else that does it.


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## dk8594 (May 29, 2018)

Elivo said:


> Yeah, i would be one of them, and i do agree with the main post on this issue, i see no reason for someone that has a lot of health issues to do a cycle, TRT or not.



I wasn't calling you out.  It's common for every new to guy on  TRT to say something along the lines of "Wow, I feel great!  What could make me feel even better?"

I think it's important to keep TRT in it's proper context, though.  It's therapy.  It's meant to bring a man back to "normal" and give a guy back his sense of self, and it always raises a flag with me when those who start TRT and immediately start thinking about cycles. In my mind they really need to be thought of as two separate things.

TRT - Do I want to feel better?
Cycle - Am I willing to get worse?


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## Elivo (May 29, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> I wasn't calling you out.  It's common for every new to guy on  TRT to say something along the lines of "Wow, I feel great!  What could make me feel even better?"
> 
> I think it's important to keep TRT in it's proper context, though.  It's therapy.  It's meant to bring a man back to "normal" and give a guy back his sense of self, and it always raises a flag with me when those who start TRT and immediately start thinking about cycles. In my mind they really need to be thought of as two separate things.
> 
> ...



Oh no, i didnt take it as being called out at all. But i am one of the new members on TRT that have been talking about doing a cycle. But AAS is something i have thought about doing many many times over the years but never have. The TRT and the effects it has/will have, at least for me has nothing to do with wanting to run a cycle.  I have always wanted to be bigger/stronger look better, but i never saw TRT as a way of doing that.  
Its just what you called it, therapy.

I was actually thinking of AAS long before i ever started thinking of TRT, its not something i ever considered before until i got back into the gym and noticed how hard of a time i was having getting some of the unwanted crap to go away, so i started doing some research and started reading about TRT therapy. I felt i had some of the other symptoms to go along with the weight so i got the tests done.

I agree thought totally, no one should think of TRT and running a cycle as the same thing with the same effects.


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## dk8594 (May 29, 2018)

Elivo said:


> .  I have always wanted to be bigger/stronger look better, but i never saw TRT as a way of doing that.
> .



After being hypogonadal, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the gains you make by just being "normal"   

It may not change your thoughts on doing a cycle, but after being on TRT for awhile you will have a different perspective and additional insight to assess the risk/rewards.


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## Elivo (May 29, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> After being hypogonadal, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the gains you make by just being "normal"
> 
> It may not change your thoughts on doing a cycle, but after being on TRT for awhile you will have a different perspective and additional insight to assess the risk/rewards.



It may actually, esp since if i do plan on running a cycle it still wont be till much later this year or next year. But if the TRT actually does produce some gains, its very possible that that will be good enough for me.  
I dont and never have had any plans to have the total ripped and shredded look. But id like to be able to go to the beach or pool and take my shirt off and be comfortable with it. 
And of course I do want to be bigger just becaus i have always wanted to be bigger.  I have no delusions that TRT and a cycle compare to the muscle gains you can get, but if the TRT produces some, and i like the turn out, i may end up feeling the risk of a cycle is no longer worth it.  Time will tell on how it all goes down.


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