# Goes against my training



## Rpmbrickman (Oct 8, 2015)

I was watching this veteran squat tonight looking closely at his form trying to find something to start a conversation. He had his legs really close together and pushing a lot of weight over 500 so I wanted to know why my trainer said for me to have my legs shoulder width toe pointed out a little he said whatever makes you feel good and comfortable,thru me off. So I started asking about my bench he said he lifts with his grip as wide as he can go I said wow my trainer is saying different.what is y'all's take on? this I trust this vets opinion he has been in some shows he says he has won a few big ones I'm Gona try some of this by switching up just Gona take it slow and easy


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 8, 2015)

A close stance squat will usually he a high bar or Oly style squat. Legs out wide is usually a low bar squat. 

A bodybuilding bench uses a wider grip to out more emphasis on the chest whereas a powerlifter bench will have closer hand placement to emphasize the true primary movers I any type of oressing motion ie tricoes, lats, delts, etc.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 8, 2015)

The big guy at the gym is wrong 99% of the time when it comes to things like this and him "winning shows" doesn't make him a training guru 

Your not supposed to have your legs really close together when squatting and I don't care about how many pounds he was using....I care about how DEEP was he going?
Because if it was 3 inches up & down then it doesn't count. 
A wider grip on bench helps with maxing chest activation (its known as a guillotine/Gironda press) but can also completely destroy your rotator cuff - you need to go really light and have a spotter ready if you want to try it out. 

Also, what is the point of hiring a trainer when your not going to listen to him?
If I was your coach and knew you were questioning my methods behind my back and had no trust in me whatsoever....I'd drop your ass. Just saying.


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## MS1605 (Oct 8, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Also, what is the point of hiring a trainer when your not going to listen to him?
> If I was your coach and knew you were questioning my methods behind my back and had no trust in me whatsoever....I'd drop your ass. Just saying.



Then id laugh at you and tell you to go **** yourself.

Question EVERYTHING. 

I want to learn everything in the universe thats learnable and you dont do that by shutting your mouth and going with the flow. And most good teachers will want you to be like this. 



 .02


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 8, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> Then id laugh at you and tell you to go **** yourself.
> 
> Question EVERYTHING.
> 
> ...



And that is exactly why you would never get past my selection process to become a client of mine anyway 

There is a HUGE difference between questioning your coach & learning (perfectly normal) and going behind his back to listen to other people's advice because you have such little faith in him (completely disrespectful).


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## Rpmbrickman (Oct 8, 2015)

MrRippedZilla said:


> And that is exactly why you would never get past my selection process to become a client of mine anyway
> 
> There is a HUGE difference between questioning your coach & learning (perfectly normal) and going behind his back to listen to other people's advice because you have such little faith in him (completely disrespectful).



It's not what I'm doing sir if I had no faith I my trainer I would dump him and get another there is plenty of them I feel I have the best one in my gym I have had a few it was just interesting to hear what the man was saying he has a lot of experience and I wanted to hear what worked for him.


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## Seeker (Oct 8, 2015)

A close stance squat emphasizes  quad developmen specifically. ( minimum hamstring and hip work ) Like doc said it's done with high bar placement. I'm not a fan of wide grip bench. Too injury risky. I'd rather do dips, dumbbells, incline, or even machine presses for chest. I'll use the bench for strength work mostly.


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## Beedeezy (Oct 8, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> Then id laugh at you and tell you to go **** yourself.
> 
> Question EVERYTHING.
> 
> ...


What Rip said is pretty much how any coach worth a shit thinks. You are paying me to coach you but you're not taking my advice, which mean when you get shit results in the end you don't progress correctly and make said coach look bad.
Making you look better/progress in strength ect is his job. When that doesn't happen others around think it's his technique not the client being a shit bag.


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## MS1605 (Oct 8, 2015)

Beedeezy said:


> What Rip said is pretty much how any coach worth a shit thinks. You are paying me to coach you but you're not taking my advice, which mean when you get shit results in the end you don't progress correctly and make said coach look bad.
> Making you look better/progress in strength ect is his job. When that doesn't happen others around it's his technique not the client being a shit bag.



There is a difference between "not taking advice" and going on a forum and asking questions about 2 different techniques.  The OP came here asking for opinions on a new technique he saw someone doing and rip said that if he was the coach and found out this guy was going behind his back and asking questions, he would drop him. Thats a HUGE difference. 

Rips original comment, from the way I understood it, was like he was all high and mighty and no one asks questions or questions his methods. If thats not how he ment it thats fine but to say the OP is being a shitty student by asking others advice on 2 different ideologies of a training method is stupid.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 8, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> There is a difference between "not taking advice" and going on a forum and asking questions about 2 different techniques.  The OP came here asking for opinions on a new technique he saw someone doing and rip said that if he was the coach and found out this guy was going behind his back and asking questions, he would drop him. Thats a HUGE difference.
> 
> Rips original comment, from the way I understood it, was like he was all high and mighty and no one asks questions or questions his methods. If thats not how he ment it thats fine but to say the OP is being a shitty student by asking others advice on 2 different ideologies of a training method is stupid.



Read the last two sentences of OP's first post. That doesn't sound like genuine curiosity. It sounds like going behind the coach's back


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## NbleSavage (Oct 8, 2015)

Seeker said:


> A close stance squat emphasizes  quad developmen specifically. ( minimum hamstring and hip work ) Like doc said it's done with high bar placement. I'm not a fan of wide grip bench. Too injury risky. I'd rather do dips, dumbbells, incline, or even machine presses for chest. I'll use the bench for strength work mostly.



Great post here.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 8, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> Then id laugh at you and tell you to go **** yourself.
> 
> Question EVERYTHING.
> 
> ...



No. Same here. If I tell a client to do something a certain way and they go ask the bros for input I will terminate after a warning.

Your stance,grip widths all of it is determined by your leverages.  There is the textbook way to do things but that's only a starting point.


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## MS1605 (Oct 8, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> No. Same here. If I tell a client to do something a certain way and they go ask the bros for input I will terminate after a warning.



I guess I was just raised different then yall. If a coach threatened to drop me for questioning a way he does something I would take my money elsewhere. 

I was lucky enough to have the USA Olympic pankration coach as my coach for years and when I moved and could no longer trained with them, they told me I was one of their best students because I wanted to know why everything was the way it was. 

I guess I feel like if im paying you good money (in my case it was SEVERAL hundred per month) for your knowlege then why do I get limited to what I know?

Guess we agree to dissagree


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 8, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> I guess I was just raised different then yall. If a coach threatened to drop me for questioning a way he does something I would take my money elsewhere.
> 
> I was lucky enough to have the USA Olympic pankration coach as my coach for years and when I moved and could no longer trained with them, they told me I was one of their best students because I wanted to know why everything was the way it was.
> 
> ...



Again the question isn't about learning. A good coach like POB and RippedZilla will field your questions and give you enough info to drown in or give you reading material to learn. The issue here is why are you paying such good money, possibly several hundred dollars or more a month like in your case, yet you don't have faith in the coach to get the best out of you? If you want to learn they'll teach you, if you don't have faith in them they have others who do.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 8, 2015)

I should add that when a coach trains you they do things a certain way to get an expected outcome. If you start changing things based on advice of others that don't understand the philosophy behind the coach's methods it will add in an unexpected variable which will change the outcome. At that point you blame your coach for failing you yet it was you who didn't follow the program.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 8, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> I guess I was just raised different then yall. If a coach threatened to drop me for questioning a way he does something I would take my money elsewhere.
> 
> I was lucky enough to have the USA Olympic pankration coach as my coach for years and when I moved and could no longer trained with them, they told me I was one of their best students because I wanted to know why everything was the way it was.
> 
> ...


I have no issue at all with a client asking me why. In fact I prefer it. It's a teachable moment and understanding the why will only reinforce my cues.

Asking other people behind my back is another story.


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## Rpmbrickman (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm starting to figure out what not to do if I get a real trainer. Been putting a lot of thought towards it.


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## MS1605 (Oct 8, 2015)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I should add that when a coach trains you they do things a certain way to get an expected outcome. If you start changing things based on advice of others that don't understand the philosophy behind the coach's methods it will add in an unexpected variable which will change the outcome. At that point you blame your coach for failing you yet it was you who didn't follow the program.


Totally agree with this. I would never do something a different way while being coached by soneone.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 8, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> I have no issue at all with a client asking me why. In fact I prefer it. It's a teachable moment and understanding the why will only reinforce my cues.
> 
> Asking other people behind my back is another story.



This was pretty much my point all along.


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## jennerrator (Oct 8, 2015)

MS1605 said:


> I guess I was just raised different then yall. If a coach threatened to drop me for questioning a way he does something I would take my money elsewhere.
> 
> I was lucky enough to have the USA Olympic pankration coach as my coach for years and when I moved and could no longer trained with them, they told me I was one of their best students because I wanted to know why everything was the way it was.
> 
> ...



This is how I see it, there are folks that question and folks that are perfectly fine with taking orders/advice etc...however you want to word it.

I like to question, I like to know "why", I like having tons of knowledge....THIS is why I haven't paid someone in years to train me...I won't stick to it because I like to research and do different things. This is not to say that there aren't good trainers out there, it just doesn't work for me and I have done just fine on my own. 

Competing to me is a different story, if I were going to...I would most def look for the best trainer for that out there.


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