# Test C compounded? likely to aromatase and need AI?



## suncom3 (Mar 10, 2016)

My blood tests were done by labcorp,T level is 208     free T 6.4        E 13.4  Do you think with t this low and E this high I would be likly to aromatase test c to excess E.
Ive been looking into the bioT pellet route or or using test c injections. Ive been told the delivery system of bioT reduces or eliminates the need for hcg and AI .  I dont really fully understand that yet?  From what I read it seems most gels creams and some of the injectable test is bio identacle,and derived from the mexican yam molecule.  Are most test c scripts compounded or actual name brand pharmacy test c ? Are the health risks really much lower with bioT. It seems like it gives you a much more smooth delivery with no peaks and valleys.Although I should be able to get a script for test c from a indo here.but i dont think the med will be covered by insurance,if it is it will be 1ml bottles and the copays will be expensive. 

It seems bioT is not that terrible expensive,$600 for 5 month. Im trying to understand the money motivation side,some of the low t centers that do test c injections seem to be a good bit more expensive,as most wont give you the t to take and do your own injections. So it seems the docs that wok with bioT really beleive in it and dont do many injections at all. Some here make coparisons to pellets being for livestock,seems unwise to discount a technology that could work this well just because you dont understand it or educate your self on it? Ive been told alot of the navy seals are using bioT because the Va will not do anything for these guys that are in the 250 and up range. These guys have access to almost everything and cant get T unreal really. They obviously cant risk breaking the law and jeopardize their careers. I just find it interesting they choose this method.


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## Megatron28 (Mar 10, 2016)

BioT is a marketing gimmick.  Ignore that.

If you go on TRT get Test Cypionate or Enanthate nor Undecanoate *injections*.  It is the cheapest and most effective form of TRT.  And there is no risk of transfer to the loved ones in your life (as there is with creams/gels).  I would never subject myself to pellets.  YouTube what the surgery looks like.  And they are ridiculously expensive -- but your doc will appreciate the new car it helps him afford.  

As for aromatization, your current TT and E2 levels have little to no bearing on what will happen while on exogenous testosterone.  The exogenous testosterone shuts down your HPTA feedback loop so everything works differently.  There will no longer be regulation of your LH to manage TT and E2 levels.  So it is common for guys on TRT to need an AI but not always required.  Body fat, Test dose and injection frequency (among other things) have a big part in determining this.

As for compounded or name brand it often depends on what pharmacy you go to.  Smaller ones may be more inclined to use compounding pharmacies.  Larger ones like Walgreen's or CVS or more likely to give you Watson or Phizer.  But in theory, there should be no difference whatsoever between name brand and compounded testosterone.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 10, 2016)

Your test and estrogen numbers are not an indication that you will convert at a high rate.  

This bio identical tagline is nonsense. Test is test is test.  Your body can't tell the difference.  Pellets gels patches and injectable test is just a choice related more to convenience. Not everyone wants to pin.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 10, 2016)

Dammit mega beat me lol


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## snake (Mar 10, 2016)

Megatron28 said:


> BioT is a marketing gimmick.  Ignore that.
> 
> If you go on TRT get Test Cypionate or Enanthate nor Undecanoate *injections*.  It is the cheapest and most effective form of TRT.  And there is no risk of transfer to the loved ones in your life (as there is with creams/gels).  I would never subject myself to pellets.  YouTube what the surgery looks like.  And they are ridiculously expensive -- but your doc will appreciate the new car it helps him afford.
> 
> ...



^^^What he said^^^


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## suncom3 (Mar 10, 2016)

I can see some marketing angles in biot but i would not reduce it to a marketing gimmick,im not sure i can handle pinning test c twice a week. Just trying to decide between the 2,ive also read testim and androgel 10mg works much better than 7.5 mg  It has got some guys up to 800 range so considering trying that to start also. But pellets that last 5 months with one 5 min procedure is sounding good also. Anyone have any factual data that says bioT is making statements that are not true? How do they keep test levels at 1200 and not need any AI at all,what is different about their delivery system that allows this that esters do not? With the navy seals using it,there has to be some advantages. I dont understand how it works with dht compared with test c yet either.
So is the price of Watson or Phizer test C much diff than compounded? I would guess most people would prefer name brand to compounded right?


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## Franklin Yeti (Mar 10, 2016)

suncom3 said:


> I can see some marketing angles in biot but i would not reduce it to a marketing gimmick,im not sure i can handle pinning test c twice a week. Just trying to decide between the 2,ive also read testim and androgel 10mg works much better than 7.5 mg  It has got some guys up to 800 range so considering trying that to start also. But pellets that last 5 months with one 5 min procedure is sounding good also. Anyone have any factual data that says bioT is making statements that are not true? How do they keep test levels at 1200 and not need any AI at all,what is different about their delivery system that allows this that esters do not? With the navy seals using it,there has to be some advantages. I dont understand how it works with dht compared with test c yet either.
> So is the price of Watson or Phizer test C much diff than compounded? I would guess most people would prefer name brand to compounded right?



You don't have to pin Test C twice a week.  I pin mine once a week and it works great.  Go find a Wellness clinic, they are everywhere, they will negotiate with you on the price of the bottle and will most likely let you take it home to administer.  Just tell them you have unpredictable travel with work and can't come in every week, since you may be gone 2 weeks straight.  Worked for me


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## suncom3 (Mar 10, 2016)

We have a few trt clinics and anti aging clinics here but they all seem to be done with pellets,perhaps they work with test injections also,but im wondering why they all consider pellets,"better medicine" I could probally do once a week,Ive just read some get better smoother results with bi weekly injections. Are you buying compounded test c from the wellness center direct or getting it from the pharmacy ? what do these wellness clinics charge to do the scripts as take home vs doing them on site?


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## Megatron28 (Mar 12, 2016)

suncom3 said:


> We have a few trt clinics and anti aging clinics here but they all seem to be done with pellets,perhaps they work with test injections also,but im wondering why they all consider pellets,"better medicine" I could probally do once a week,Ive just read some get better smoother results with bi weekly injections. Are you buying compounded test c from the wellness center direct or getting it from the pharmacy ? what do these wellness clinics charge to do the scripts as take home vs doing them on site?



Pellets pay for their new Mercedes.  Injections net docs about $200 a year of profit for one office visit. Pellets aren't better medicine.  Injections are tried and true.

I get my testosterone from Walgreen's or whichever pharmacy I choose.  Ask your doc to give you a prescription.  Don't buy the medications through the clinic and pay their markups.

A legit doctor will not charge you anything for a script.  When you go to your doctor for a sinus infection, do you have to pay him a kickback to have him write you a script for antibiotics?  Why would TRT be any different?

Just go see a legit doctor and have them prescribe you TRT.  A 10ml vial of 200mg/ml Test C costs about $45.  That lasts most guys between 10-20 weeks on TRT  And Arimidex (if needed) will cost you less than $20 a year.  hCG does cost more from the pharmacy, but not everyone on TRT uses it -- I do recommend it though.


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## suncom3 (Mar 14, 2016)

My pcp is anti trt,just as most are. Id have to switch docs who knows how many times to get a script i could take home,Ive called some of the trt clinics around here and they are 100 consult fee and 50 or more each visit for injections once a week,thats 300 for the first month and 200 each month on, BioTe is 600 for 5 months. Its actually much cheaper than the few injection Trt places left around here? Now if you could get a doc to give it to you to take home,for 45 dollar script ,that would be much cheaper. What is your opinion on compounded test C to phizer name brand?


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## Megatron28 (Mar 14, 2016)

suncom3 said:


> My pcp is anti trt,just as most are. Id have to switch docs who knows how many times to get a script i could take home,Ive called some of the trt clinics around here and they are 100 consult fee and 50 or more each visit for injections once a week,thats 300 for the first month and 200 each month on, BioTe is 600 for 5 months. Its actually much cheaper than the few injection Trt places left around here? Now if you could get a doc to give it to you to take home,for 45 dollar script ,that would be much cheaper. What is your opinion on compounded test C to phizer name brand?



Not sure how you are concluding that most PCP's are anti-TRT.  Not true.

Compounding Pharmacy test should be the same, but anecdotal experience seems to show that they have more quality control issues.


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## PillarofBalance (Mar 14, 2016)

Megatron28 said:


> Not sure how you are concluding that most PCP's are anti-TRT.  Not true.
> 
> Compounding Pharmacy test should be the same, but anecdotal experience seems to show that they have more quality control issues.



Not really anti-trt but your typical pcp is usually clueless about trt.  Mine was. I offered him literature to get him up to speed and was fine with it after that. 

Does yours script you for hcg and adex too?

Bottom line though is he is at 208.  He needs something at this point.


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## LeanHerm (Mar 14, 2016)

I had a test at 248 and my doctor said it's perfectly normal for a 31 year old.  Lol


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## suncom3 (Mar 14, 2016)

thats what my doc says, unless your really low,under 200,according to him and the other doctors in the practice,its not worth the risk of increased risks of prostate cancer,cardio issues,blood clots and such. They are pretty convincing about it also. I just feel so crappy at this point, I dont even care anymore,what ever it takes to feel better,if i die sooner,then thats just a risk ill have to take.


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## bigdog (Mar 14, 2016)

my initial test showed mine at 337. I was 41 and they sent me to the endocrinologist and he put me on trt immediately. I guess I got lucky maybe. they did initially try androgel for 2 months but I hated it and the transfer risk so we switched to injections.


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## suncom3 (Mar 15, 2016)

IVe read alot of not so good results with androgel, have heard of many lawsuits against them as well for many reasons. Ive heard compounded T in creams is much more effective. But im leaning towards test C injections,but at 43,i dont want to have to do it the rest of my life,hoping for a temp boost for a while to put on some exra muscle around a injury and dial it back on T and maybe try throid meds and hcg to kick start the natural T back in. 
What level does t need to be at using test C to build muscle more aggressively ?


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## ToolSteel (Mar 15, 2016)

If you want to try kicking your natural production back up, then try that first. 
Going on trt for a while and THEN trying is not going to make things any easier.


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## suncom3 (Mar 16, 2016)

I just feel like such crap now,I dont wana wait around and see if i feel better with moderate levels of nat T. I wana run up to 1500 and see how i feel,hoping it will help me put on some more muscle to rehab my back. Anyone that can tell me how much more gains can be had with just test C alone in the 1200 to 1500 range?


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## Megatron28 (Mar 19, 2016)

suncom3 said:


> thats what my doc says, unless your really low,under 200,according to him and the other doctors in the practice,its not worth the risk of increased risks of prostate cancer,cardio issues,blood clots and such. They are pretty convincing about it also. I just feel so crappy at this point, I dont even care anymore,what ever it takes to feel better,if i die sooner,then thats just a risk ill have to take.



What prostate cancer issues?  Did your doctors go to med school in the 1950's?

Donate blood and all that hematocrit issues are managed.

Monitor estradiol and the rest is fine.

You need to start doing your own homework...  Here is a good place to start.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1506119#t=abstract


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## suncom3 (Mar 21, 2016)

whats the issue with hematocrit,i cant handle giving blood,i feel crushed for too long afterwards. im still doing my reading research,This Doc is pretty young,48 youd think they would be more informed on pro and con,they only mention the cons


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