# I Need Help



## Skullcrusher (Oct 19, 2021)

I need help putting together a workout for a screwed up lower back.

Obviously somebody here has injured their back before.

What lifts did you do?

Anything that will help me heal faster?


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## Trendkill (Oct 19, 2021)

What type of injury Skull?  I saw you mention something about a bulging disc over in Gibs log.  Is this what you're referring to?


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## CJ (Oct 19, 2021)

I'm not a PT, but if you're going to strength  train your back through this injury, I'd think your best bet would be chest supported rows and pulldowns, making sure to resist the urge to arch your back. Obviously consult a qualified PT first!!! 

But I'd look into Dr Stu McGill's Big 3 routine... https://squatuniversity.com/2018/06/21/the-mcgill-big-3-for-core-stability/


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## Skullcrusher (Oct 19, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> What type of injury Skull?  I saw you mention something about a bulging disc over in Gibs log.  Is this what you're referring to?



About 95% sure it is a herniated disc.

If something doesn't feel right I will stop doing it.

So no need to worry.


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## Skullcrusher (Oct 19, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> I'm not a PT, but if you're going to strength  train your back through this injury, I'd think your best bet would be chest supported rows and pulldowns, making sure to resist the urge to arch your back. Obviously consult a qualified PT first!!!
> 
> But I'd look into Dr Stu McGill's Big 3 routine... https://squatuniversity.com/2018/06/21/the-mcgill-big-3-for-core-stability/



Well it's really good advice because the physical therapist I spoke with told me to do some of those at your link. Going to look at it really good. Thank you for the recommendation.


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## snake (Oct 19, 2021)

Maybe also talk to the ones that didn't fuuk up their back? 

I feel ya brother, a back injury can stop life as you know it in its tracks. I have that stiff back/hips shit all the time but so far, never the bad one. Here's some things I do that I think help to stay away from the knife.

This one is simple but takes some thought. Don't do anything that effects that part of your back. Ok, you know reps with 405 in the dead lift is out but I'm talking about the little things. Support yourself if you can by choosing one exercise over another. Things like swapping out barbell curls with preachers. Pay attention to your arch while benching. Nothing wrong with benching with your feet up or on a platform. 

Keep the weight below the injury. If squats are out, hit some giant sets of leg extentions, belt squats, leg presses (don't round the back) and leg curls (easy on the arch). Get a liftout as much as possable. 

If you still want to work your calves, use a squat belt for standing and hit seated.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 19, 2021)

Another vote for chest supported rows while yer working around a bulging disc.


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## The Phoenix (Oct 19, 2021)

Wow. I hope it ain’t serious. Sorry brother 


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## Trendkill (Oct 19, 2021)

Lots of good advice here.  If you have access to bands there are some self tractioning exercises that can be beneficial.  Belt squat marches are great for this as well.  If you don't have access to a belt squat machine you can easily rig these up on a barbell stuck in a corner.  I can walk you through it if interested.  

Back injuries are almost always related to weak abs or a strength imbalance between the abs and low back.  Add in lots of static ab exercises and bracing.  Things like side holds with a dumbbell or barbell, planks, etc.  McGill also has a lot of great info on this.  Learn how too properly brace while wearing a lifting belt as well.  Happy to talk more in depth with you if you're interested.


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## Skullcrusher (Oct 19, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> Lots of good advice here.  If you have access to bands there are some self tractioning exercises that can be beneficial.  Belt squat marches are great for this as well.  If you don't have access to a belt squat machine you can easily rig these up on a barbell stuck in a corner.  I can walk you through it if interested.
> 
> Back injuries are almost always related to weak abs or a strength imbalance between the abs and low back.  Add in lots of static ab exercises and bracing.  Things like side holds with a dumbbell or barbell, planks, etc.  McGill also has a lot of great info on this.  Learn how too properly brace while wearing a lifting belt as well.  Happy to talk more in depth with you if you're interested.


I do have bands but no belt squat machine.

Abs are strong. I have weak erector spinae. Obliques are better but could use some improvement too.

How I got injured was my own stupidity. I let my back arch. Rep number 7 lower back suddenly felt off and hurt so I stopped immediately. It's my own fault because I know damn well that seated row hits erector spinae and I know that is a weak point for me.

Lesson learned...always the hard way! 

Interested in any and all recommendations.


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## Trendkill (Oct 21, 2021)

Start here: 




This is the guy that started the whole band craze in fitness.  The videos are older but Dick knows his stuff.  I would incorporate these movements into your training for a couple of weeks just to help relieve the pain and inflammation.  

Once you have that under control I would incorporate hi rep band good mornings both standing and seated.  I would start with seated as it is easier to control the range of motion.  Hi reps being anywhere between 30-100.  Do these a couple times a week for several weeks.  From there you can progress to something like back extensions first with bodyweight and then adding resistance either with bands, medicine ball, dumbbells or barbell.  I've found that when directly targeting the spinal erectors hi reps work best.  Try not to let the glutes and hamstrings take over the movement.  Keeping it lighter with hi reps helps that.

Once you've built up a foundation you can progress to heavier compound lifts that will really build strength in the spinal erectors.  I would focus on static strength in that area i.e. resisting spinal flexion but there are safe movements you can do that target flexion as well.  If by chance you have access to a reverse hyper you can start doing those immediately but this is not often a readily available piece of equipment.


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## wotmeworry (Nov 3, 2021)

Skullcrusher said:


> I do have bands but no belt squat machine.
> 
> Abs are strong. I have weak erector spinae. Obliques are better but could use some improvement too.
> 
> ...


I have to nurse my lower back (longstanding issues after loss of form going too heavy with deadlifts).
When I don't do sissy squats I do belt squats - using a dip belt on a barbell in a power rack, standing on a couple of low step platforms side on to the rack, lift one end of the bar (with weight) off the rack with the other end (just safety weight) used as a hinge on the other side of the rack (if that is clear?).  Just make sure that the belt is over your pelvis not your lumbar area (avoid shear force! on your discs).  
All legs, no back compression.  Can tap the weight on the floor as a depth guide too, like a box squat. Can go to failure with minimal risk too.


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## beefnewton (Nov 3, 2021)

I had a back injury for close to a year.. just kept trying to deal with it but in the end had to go through all of the conventional steps before I started getting better (x-ray, MRI, and then physical therapy).  I fought it for a long time, but in the end just had to commit.  I could have done without the orthopedist, x-ray, and MRI and skipped straight to the PT, though (you don't need a doctor's order for PT, at least not here).  Not sure if you are in a situation to cover the costs.  I haven't had health insurance in close to ten years and had to just eat it.


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## Skullcrusher (Nov 3, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> Start here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a stability ball for hypers but I don't know if that would be a good idea yet.

Anyways thank you for the video and suggestions.


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## Bro Bundy (Nov 3, 2021)

When u feel better start doing ghd machine to strengthen that lower back


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## Trendkill (Nov 3, 2021)

wotmeworry said:


> I have to nurse my lower back (longstanding issues after loss of form going too heavy with deadlifts).
> When I don't do sissy squats I do belt squats - using a dip belt on a barbell in a power rack, standing on a couple of low step platforms side on to the rack, lift one end of the bar (with weight) off the rack with the other end (just safety weight) used as a hinge on the other side of the rack (if that is clear?).  Just make sure that the belt is over your pelvis not your lumbar area (avoid shear force! on your discs).
> All legs, no back compression.  Can tap the weight on the floor as a depth guide too, like a box squat. Can go to failure with minimal risk too.


This is a great setup.  You can also use the setup to perform traction but marching in place with the belt high on the hips.  Throw on a couple plates and do sets of 100 steps.  Works really well.


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## Mind2muscle (Nov 4, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> This is a great setup. You can also use the setup to perform traction but marching in place with the belt high on the hips. Throw on a couple plates and do sets of 100 steps. Works really well.



I would love to see a video of this. I’ve had problems with my lower back on and off for 14 years now. I have spinal stenosis. Haven’t been able to back squat or deadlift for 2 years now. Legs have definitely suffered as far as mass goes. I am able to do lunges, front squats and leg extensions/curls but they just won’t grow without the big lifts. Good luck skullcrusher. 


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## Skullcrusher (Nov 4, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> When u feel better start doing ghd machine to strengthen that lower back


I workout at home. Quite a few different bars, DB's, cables (high or low), bands, stability ball, bodyweight.









						Marcy Cage Home Gym | MWM-7041
					

The Marcy MWM-7041 Marcy Power Rack Power Cage Home Gym - safely do squats, Lat pull downs, & more | visit Marcypro.com




					www.marcypro.com


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## CohibaRobusto (Nov 4, 2021)

Sorry I can't help dude I have zero knowledge in this area, just wanted say good luck, hope it heals up quickly.


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## Skullcrusher (Nov 4, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> Sorry I can't help dude I have zero knowledge in this area, just wanted say good luck, hope it heals up quickly.


Appreciate that man and thank you.

I hope it heals up quick too so I can start my first bulk.


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## Trendkill (Nov 4, 2021)

Mind2muscle said:


> I would love to see a video of this. I’ve had problems with my lower back on and off for 14 years now. I have spinal stenosis. Haven’t been able to back squat or deadlift for 2 years now. Legs have definitely suffered as far as mass goes. I am able to do lunges, front squats and leg extensions/curls but they just won’t grow without the big lifts. Good luck skullcrusher.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’ll record one for you tomorrow.


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## SFGiants (Nov 4, 2021)

Nothing worked better for me then core strength and deadlifts.

Start slow and lightweight


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## Bro Bundy (Nov 4, 2021)

Skullcrusher said:


> I workout at home. Quite a few different bars, DB's, cables (high or low), bands, stability ball, bodyweight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get a ghd machine


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## Skullcrusher (Nov 4, 2021)

Bro Bundy said:


> Get a ghd machine


I don't have space for it unless I bolt it to the ceiling somehow.


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## Mind2muscle (Nov 4, 2021)

Trendkill said:


> I’ll record one for you tomorrow.



found a decent video on YouTube. Gonna try it out on my next leg day. Thanks Trendkill. 


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## wotmeworry (Nov 4, 2021)

Mind2muscle said:


> I would love to see a video of this. I’ve had problems with my lower back on and off for 14 years now. I have spinal stenosis. Haven’t been able to back squat or deadlift for 2 years now. Legs have definitely suffered as far as mass goes. I am able to do lunges, front squats and leg extensions/curls but they just won’t grow without the big lifts. Good luck skullcrusher.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My lower back limits me the most, too due to stenosis and nerve pinches.  I have given up barbell squats and just do sissy squats (mostly) and belt squats (less), plus some reverse lunges with a safety squat bar (back can handle these).  Can add resistance to sissy squats with cables, too.

Need a glute exercise also as sissy squats just hit quads (I do a kick back using the leg extension machine in reverse in lieu of multi-hip machine, but could do weighted step-ups).

My quads and glutes are hit just as hard as when I did squats with no back pain at all, also no loss of mass.  Systemic load is less too, without hefting all that weight on my back, so recovery is faster.  Not the same sense of achievement as with a decent squat set, but no back pain!


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## Mind2muscle (Nov 5, 2021)

wotmeworry said:


> My lower back limits me the most, too due to stenosis and nerve pinches. I have given up barbell squats and just do sissy squats (mostly) and belt squats (less), plus some reverse lunges with a safety squat bar (back can handle these). Can add resistance to sissy squats with cables, too.
> 
> Need a glute exercise also as sissy squats just hit quads (I do a kick back using the leg extension machine in reverse in lieu of multi-hip machine, but could do weighted step-ups).
> 
> My quads and glutes are hit just as hard as when I did squats with no back pain at all, also no loss of mass. Systemic load is less too, without hefting all that weight on my back, so recovery is faster. Not the same sense of achievement as with a decent squat set, but no back pain!



Thanks! Didn’t mean to hijack this thread. Hope some of this input is helpful to @Skullcrusher as well. 


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## Hooba (Nov 5, 2021)

What about doing a reverse plank hold?  You could even start of assisted by running a band down from a power rack and have it go around your waist to give you that assisted hold?  Just an idea for lower back.


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## Joliver (Nov 5, 2021)

When I herniated a disc I did this. 









						A PHASED REHABILITATION PROTOCOL FOR ATHLETES WITH LUMBAR INTERVERTEBRAL DISC HERNIATION
					

Conservative non-surgical management of a herniated lumbar intervertebral disc (HLD) in athletes is a complex task due to the dramatic forces imparted on the spine during sport participation. The demands placed upon the athlete during rehabilitation and ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




I'd write my program down but I have had like 70 million drinks. So it be filled with spelling errors and grammatical bullshit.

But it's pretty much right out of that study with some slight adjustments to fit my sporting goals. 

I went from a herniated disc to pulling near PRs again, squatting, front squatting, wrestling, and grappling with no issues. And no chronic nagging injury fuckery. 

If you have any questions...I'd be glad to help when I sober up sometime tomorrow....maybe Monday if I get out of hand.

And always remember, the beginning of the end of your spine is weak glutes. If you'll look at the spinal model, you'll notice that at full extension there is maximal intervertebral gap.  Flexion closes those gaps.

Do no flexion during the accute phase. If you do, during the injury remodeling, you'll have a permanently smaller disc to work with...generally called a degenerative disc. 

Anyway...PM me if you need help. I sure I won't be wasted at some point. But... long weekend. Im sure I'll be back by Monday. 

No flexion! It feels right...but it's not. Don't fuck up. Fucking up is bad. Flexion is bad. 

Do all the extension you want. It's healing. Tens/electrostim too. 

Great chat.


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## Joliver (Nov 5, 2021)

Damn. This was from October. Sorry I didn't see it. I'm uh...mostly illiterate. 

Offer still stands if you need help though.


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