# E2 conversion rate altering over time?



## PillarofBalance (Aug 2, 2016)

Any of you guys experience this?  I am a little confused it seems.

I have ran well over a gram of test plus 100mg tne pre-workout 3 to 4 times a week in the past.  I have never needed an AI.  Never got symptoms like itchy nips or excessive bloat or high BP etc... in a totalitarian state where getting bloods is a bitch so no bloodwork to confirm except for my trt dose of 100mg e5d that had total test at 236 and e2 at 30 something.

Lately I am on 500 test with 50 tne 3x per week.  Last night I finally sucked it up and took 1mg of adex.

Wtf is the deal.  I was bloated and bitchy as **** yesterday.  As of this morning the bloat has cleared up and I feel right in the head.

Maybe now that I am like 15 to 17% body fat instead of 20 to 25 the bloat was noticeable? 

Anyone know if our conversion rates can change over time?


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 2, 2016)

Inb4 coach dys bitches me out to get bloodwork done


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 2, 2016)

My bro science thinks bf% has something to do with it,mayb age too


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 2, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> My bro science thinks bf% has something to do with it,mayb age too



Yeah but isn't the deal usually higher bodyfat more e2 conversion? 

And did you just call me old ya bastid?


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## DieYoungStrong (Aug 2, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Inb4 coach dys bitches me out to get bloodwork done



Get blood work done hahaha. 

We both know a true freedom fighting patriot who can help get bloods without letting the central planning committee find out about it.


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 2, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yeah but isn't the deal usually higher bodyfat more e2 conversion?
> 
> And did you just call me old ya bastid?



yes it seems to be the opposite with you lol


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 2, 2016)

Aromatization is strongly correlated with age but the exact mechanism hasn't yet been fully understood. 

Bloodwork may not help you also bc plasma level estradiol does not necessarily reflect tissue level activity bc peripherally formed estradiol is metabolized locally and not all enters general circulation. 

You probably know this already but itchy nips doesn't necessarily mean gyno nor does it necessarily mean high E2. High BP isn't a side of high E2. It's a side of aas.


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## snake (Aug 2, 2016)

If you recall, I was having a problem on my current cycle with my E2. I did what I always do; same Test/ AI ratio that always worked in the past with BW to back it up. This time I popped an 80 E2. Fortunately I was only 4-5 weeks in so my body was not exposed to that high estradiol level for any length of time. The only sides I was seeing may have been some of those small pimples  that you could feel but were not noticeable from 5' away. 

I know you are leaner so throw out the high BF= high E2 idea. Actually, that fat you dropped may have been your saving grace and saved you from a "B" cup.


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## DieYoungStrong (Aug 2, 2016)

I think the real lesson to be learned from this experience is you should go back to being a slack-jawed, mouth breathing 280.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 2, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Aromatization is strongly correlated with age but the exact mechanism hasn't yet been fully understood.
> 
> Bloodwork may not help you also bc plasma level estradiol does not necessarily reflect tissue level activity bc peripherally formed estradiol is metabolized locally and not all enters general circulation.
> 
> You probably know this already but itchy nips doesn't necessarily mean gyno nor does it necessarily mean high E2. High BP isn't a side of high E2. It's a side of aas.



I know not to judge e2 by sides yeah. But it's what I am working with.

So if bloods won't be accurate then wtf do I do? Just run aromasin every few days?  That doesn't quite make sense.


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## DieYoungStrong (Aug 2, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> I know not to judge e2 by sides yeah. But it's what I am working with.
> 
> So if bloods won't be accurate then wtf do I do? Just run aromasin every few days?  That doesn't quite make sense.



Judging by what you're going through and your past, if you are going to go old school and do it all by feel, 12.5 mg of aromasin 2x a week. See how you feel from there.

We are PLers. I'd rather your estrogen be a bit on the high side than risk you crashing it.


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## Bro Bundy (Aug 2, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> I know not to judge e2 by sides yeah. But it's what I am working with.
> 
> So if bloods won't be accurate then wtf do I do? Just run aromasin every few days?  That doesn't quite make sense.



yes take some asin or adex whats the big deal..or wait to get bloods to see whats up..I take a adex when ever my nip tells me too


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## DF (Aug 2, 2016)

dieyoungstrong said:


> get blood work done hahaha.
> 
> We both know a true freedom fighting patriot who can help get bloods without letting the central planning committee find out about it.



this ^^^^^^^^


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## Joliver (Aug 2, 2016)

Turns out that that some 90% of your aromatase happens in the stromal cells which aren't lost with a reduction of body fat.  I ran into a similar problem and I'm on a similar dose (250mgTC per week/tne 3-4x per week).  So you'd get a similar e2 level, but it may be more noticeable since you're all trim and sexy like. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1763708/pdf/v078p00064.pdf

Or it could be this....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11399122/


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## DieYoungStrong (Aug 2, 2016)

Cornelius Bigsby Coanbread J. Oliver said:


> Turns out that that some 90% of your aromatase happens in the stromal cells which aren't lost with a reduction of body fat.  I ran into a similar problem and I'm on a similar dose (250mgTC per week/tne 3-4x per week).  So you'd get a similar e2 level, but it may be more noticeable since you're all trim and sexy like.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1763708/pdf/v078p00064.pdf
> 
> ...




So you're saying it's ok for me to be a fatty???? Sweet!!!


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 2, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> I know not to judge e2 by sides yeah. But it's what I am working with.
> 
> So if bloods won't be accurate then wtf do I do? Just run aromasin every few days?  That doesn't quite make sense.



Not that bloods won't be accurate, if you get an LC/MS panel of E2 it'll be very accurate for serum E2, just that serum E2 doesn't always show the whole picture bc up to about 20% of E2 can be mad peripherally. 

A blood test can help to show you where serum levels are which can be important but if itchy nips and some bloat is the main concern I wouldn't worry much. You might have better luck with nolva just an idea.


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## Joliver (Aug 2, 2016)

DieYoungStrong said:


> So you're saying it's ok for me to be a fatty???? Sweet!!!



Yes. In fact, I got you a new hoodie....


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## John Ziegler (Aug 2, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Maybe now that I am like 15 to 17% body fat instead of 20 to 25 the bloat was noticeable?



This reminds me of when a hot chick turns her ass towards you sticks it out all sexy and says "do these jeans make me look fat" ?


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 2, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> yes take some asin or adex whats the big deal..or wait to get bloods to see whats up..I take a adex when ever my nip tells me too



2 reasons. One I don't like taking drugs unless I have to. Yes I realize that makes no sense coming from a jewce head.  I am a little ****ed up. I admit it.

Second is I am looking to understand wtf is going on that causes me to suddenly need an ai when I never have.  



Cornelius Bigsby Coanbread J. Oliver said:


> Turns out that that some 90% of your aromatase happens in the stromal cells which aren't lost with a reduction of body fat.  I ran into a similar problem and I'm on a similar dose (250mgTC per week/tne 3-4x per week).  So you'd get a similar e2 level, but it may be more noticeable since you're all trim and sexy like.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1763708/pdf/v078p00064.pdf
> 
> ...



Thanks jol. I am seriously leaning towards it being my new composition and it just being more noticeable. At least the bloat piece.  I am sure I have been bitchy and hormonal but I doubt any of you have ever seen that side of me lol


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 2, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> yes take some asin or adex whats the big deal..or wait to get bloods to see whats up..I take a adex when ever my nip tells me too





DocDePanda187123 said:


> Not that bloods won't be accurate, if you get an LC/MS panel of E2 it'll be very accurate for serum E2, just that serum E2 doesn't always show the whole picture bc up to about 20% of E2 can be mad peripherally.
> 
> A blood test can help to show you where serum levels are which can be important but if itchy nips and some bloat is the main concern I wouldn't worry much. You might have better luck with nolva just an idea.



Alright I will start with bloods when I get back next week then and just see where things are at.


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## bigdog (Aug 2, 2016)

as we age, first goes the eyes, then the PP! before you know it we need to start using an AI! getting old sucks lol.:32 (20):


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## Joliver (Aug 2, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> 2 reasons. One I don't like taking drugs unless I have to. Yes I realize that makes no sense coming from a jewce head.  I am a little ****ed up. I admit it.
> 
> Second is I am looking to understand wtf is going on that causes me to suddenly need an ai when I never have.
> 
> ...



You're welcome buddy. Not for nothing on this one, but I eventually ended up deciding that my new found lunacy was based on the increase in SHBG due to rapid fat loss. I nipped it in the bud with 3 days of stanozolol that I had hanging around since winny was cool. I went to right as rain, just like that.


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## Joliver (Aug 2, 2016)

SHBG and weight loss:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15056129/

Study proving old closet winny may not be completely useless:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2723028/


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## DreamChaser (Aug 2, 2016)

Interesting thread not looking forward to getting older


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## zenergy (Aug 19, 2016)

I am no MD just a PhD
over time your receptor sites will change
please don't assume a higher body fat has anything to relate to your plight. 
I can go into micro detail but don't want to bore you. 
Thanks for letting me advise


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## thqmas (Aug 19, 2016)

Please do zenergy. I'll be happy to read it. (I'm serious).


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## zenergy (Aug 19, 2016)

Wil post tonite 
been running a drug study you guys will find interesting.  It involves rats, washers, concussions,  and Peds.
Funded by...well if I say so I'll get in trouble. This is a great place to collect new data. If your wondering why I am so open.


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## Runningwild (Aug 19, 2016)

When I started years ago I didn't need an AI for anything under 750 ew and still only minimal at that.  Now I need an AI even on my TRT dose


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## zenergy (Aug 19, 2016)

absolutely true. After time our receptors really change. As you know, we are the best editors regarding our chemical balances.


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## zenergy (Aug 19, 2016)

bottom line change is constant.  To be honest you'd have to look back at your last 6 months of drug ingestions.  THEN you have a baseline. I'd be happy to look at it but will take a couple days to get a real scientific factual answer. Flip side I can presume all day.


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## thqmas (Aug 19, 2016)

I know this is true in relation to drugs (affect brain pathways involving the dopamine system in the reward pathway). Drug abuser severely reduce receptor levels.


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## thqmas (Aug 19, 2016)

zenergy said:


> Wi post tonite ....This is a great place to collect new data...



Thanks zenergy. May I ask what kind of data are you collecting? I don't like being part of a study without knowing it


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## ToolSteel (Aug 20, 2016)

If it always goes up with age, I'm ****ed.


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 21, 2016)

Keeping your gut flora healthy can negate this for the most part.  When I had candida overgrowth and SIBO, my estradiol got up to 46pg/ml on just 100mg of test cyp per week.  When I got those under control, my estradiol went down to 22pg/ml on same test dosage.  

I could have gotten a fecal transplant, but I opted for probiotics instead.


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## Runningwild (Aug 21, 2016)

How did you know you had candida overgrowth and SIBO?  And probiotics is the way to treat? what type of protocol?


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 21, 2016)

For the SIBO I did a breath test for hydrogen and methane.  For the candida I took one of those little 'pill cams' which takes pictures as it moves throughout your GI tract. 

The treatment protocol for sibo was as follows:
Low fiber diet: 10 grams max per day
50 billion CFU probiotics per day ( I now take 15 billion per day)

For the candida I took 
caprylic acid
oil of oregano
diatomaceous earth
NOW wormwood, black walnut hull, and cloves mixture.

They offered me a pharmaceutical anti fungal but I declined.


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## PillarofBalance (Aug 21, 2016)

Bust My Ass said:


> I could have gotten a fecal transplant, but I opted for probiotics instead.



Wut

Must have agonized over that decision.


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## Bust My Ass (Aug 22, 2016)

PillarofBalance said:


> Wut
> 
> Must have agonized over that decision.


I wanted Salma Hayek would be the donor, but it didn't work out. :32 (11):


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## ToolSteel (Aug 22, 2016)

I have actually heard of people doing that. No way I could justify it myself.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Aug 22, 2016)

Bust My Ass said:


> Keeping your gut flora healthy can negate this for the most part.  When I had candida overgrowth and SIBO, my estradiol got up to 46pg/ml on just 100mg of test cyp per week.  When I got those under control, my estradiol went down to 22pg/ml on same test dosage.
> 
> I could have gotten a fecal transplant, but I opted for probiotics instead.



A difference of 24pg/ml can be a regularly occurring variance bc E2 levels are never 100% stable even with ai use but also, it's not enough of a variance to really stress over.


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