# first cycle advice



## payne (Dec 23, 2015)

Friend of mine says he's got me some test and gonna show me how to use it but I asked him about an ancillary and he says I don't super need it just doing low dose test. Is he being dumb and I need to find some or is it really not that serious


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## Rumpy (Dec 23, 2015)

what are you planning to run?

You'll need an AI and PCT at the very least


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## payne (Dec 23, 2015)

He's got test e I think but dudes pretty psycho. I trust him but sometimes don't know if he's all there. I'ma try and find some al and pct like u said though. Is pinning test once a week fine or does it really depend


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 23, 2015)

Oh man... 

This isn't asprin. Slow it down and spend some time reading the 4000 first cycle posts here.


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## DieYoungStrong (Dec 23, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Oh man...
> 
> This isn't asprin. Slow it down and spend some time reading the 4000 first cycle posts here.



Good thing too. I'm allergic to aspirin.


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## payne (Dec 23, 2015)

Good looking out


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## snake (Dec 23, 2015)

If you don't trust the gear, don't pin the gear.

First rule of cycling is have everything on hand. You may or may not need an AI but it's cheap and not worth the risk. Even if you don't end up with gyno, keeping your E2 in check via blood work will make your cycle more productive. 

You're asking the right questions to the right people; that's a good thing.


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## payne (Dec 23, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up, I'm getting shit straight before I do anything. Checked out some other info and gonna order what I need before I **** around


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## ToolSteel (Dec 23, 2015)

Snake makes a good point. You're asking questions. That's good.


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## sinaloa4ever (Dec 23, 2015)

you will need post cycle therapy if you do not have hormone replacement therapy. i would recommend a low dose of letrozole around 1.25mg a day for 2 to 3 months. usually post cycle therapy equals the same amount being on cycle. some people recover faster, but it is better being safe and using letrozole afterwards than a weaker compound like arimidex, aromasin, or nolvadex. 

i hope that helps a bit.


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## ToolSteel (Dec 23, 2015)

sinaloa4ever said:


> you will need post cycle therapy if you do not have hormone replacement therapy. i would recommend a low dose of letrozole around 1.25mg a day for 2 to 3 months. usually post cycle therapy equals the same amount being on cycle. some people recover faster, but it is better being safe and using letrozole afterwards than a weaker compound like arimidex, aromasin, or nolvadex.
> 
> i hope that helps a bit.


No. That is an absolutely horrible pct protocol. Clomid and nolvadex need to be used (and hcg if you can get it) for your best chance at recovery. 

Pct is the hardest part of a cycle, don't make it any harder than it needs to be.


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## bigben66 (Dec 23, 2015)

OK... terminology that you might wonder about...

*PCT = Post Cycle Therapy*

This is a combination of compounds that will help you recover your own HPTA.

PCT should comprise of Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) @ 40/40/20/20

If you are cycling with Test Enanthate - then start PCT approx. 18 days after last pin.

*AI = Aromatase Inhibitor*

This should be included with your cycle to keep estrogen in check. A lot of people on Test only may not need an AI, but I think it should be run at a minimal dose as an insurance policy. 0.5mg Arimidex every 3 days would be a good start point. You can tweak this depending on your mid-cycle bloods.

*HCG = Human Chorionic Gonadotropin*

I always recommend HCG throughout the cycle for keeping volume in the testes. You can pin HCG sub-q, a dosage of 2 x 250iu per week should suffice. You can pin HCG from week 1 of your cycle until 3 days before PCT.

Testosterone Enanthate is 'usually' pinned twice weekly, so if you have a 10ml vial of 250mg/ml - you would pin 1ml - twice a week (eg: Mon AM - THURS PM)
Giving you a weekly dosage of 500mg.

NB: The success of this cycle will be dictated by your diet and your training. AAS are just the icing on the cake. They will not cover over bad habits, they will not paper over poor nutrition. Get the fundamentals right, and your cycle will bring good gains!

Good luck OP.

BigBen


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## IronCore (Dec 23, 2015)

bigben66 said:


> OK... terminology that you might wonder about...
> 
> *PCT = Post Cycle Therapy*
> 
> ...



What he said! thanks for clarifying Ben... to the OP... while Ben has given you a great summary. It would be wise for you to do more research and really memorize the PCT info... the cycle is easy... PCT is a BITCH!


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## ToolSteel (Dec 23, 2015)

I'm not a fan of the 18 days / wait for it all to be gone. Clomid can and will get your nuts working as long as you don't have super physiological test levels. There's no reason to intentionally cause a big dip that you have to fight through. 
It's complicated things a little bit here's my pct transition: 2-3 weeks of 100mg/wk. Clomid starts at 100 same week as the last pin. Run pct 4-5 weeks. 

Many ways to skin a cat, this is mine based on the research I've done.


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## bvs (Dec 23, 2015)

bigben66 said:


> OK... terminology that you might wonder about...9
> 
> *PCT = Post Cycle Therapy*
> 
> ...



This is solid advice OP


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 23, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> I'm not a fan of the 18 days / wait for it all to be gone. Clomid can and will get your nuts working as long as you don't have super physiological test levels. There's no reason to intentionally cause a big dip that you have to fight through.
> It's complicated things a little bit here's my pct transition: 2-3 weeks of 100mg/wk. Clomid starts at 100 same week as the last pin. Run pct 4-5 weeks.
> 
> Many ways to skin a cat, this is mine based on the research I've done.



There actually is a reason for the dip. That's when your body will start trying to return test to normal levels. Taking Clomid prior to that is pointless because the body isn't looking to do anything just yet.


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## payne (Dec 23, 2015)

That's some really good info, I like the way you lay it out easy and to the point. This stuff is hard to follow sometimes


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## ToolSteel (Dec 23, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> There actually is a reason for the dip. That's when your body will start trying to return test to normal levels. Taking Clomid prior to that is pointless because the body isn't looking to do anything just yet.


Taking clomid while at OR below normal natural levels will increase test production. I'm surprised you haven't read the same studies I'm referring to. I'll see if I can find them again, it's been a while.


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## Assassin32 (Dec 24, 2015)

ToolSteel said:


> Taking clomid while at OR below normal natural levels will increase test production. I'm surprised you haven't read the same studies I'm referring to. I'll see if I can find them again, it's been a while.



Exactly. Your answering your own argument. Your test levels will be much higher than average for a couple weeks after you stop pinning. When they start to normalize 17, 18, 19 days after your last pin is when you start clomid. Dont you think there's a reason for the standard protocol?


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## ToolSteel (Dec 24, 2015)

Assassin32 said:


> Exactly. Your answering your own argument. Your test levels will be much higher than average for a couple weeks after you stop pinning. When they start to normalize 17, 18, 19 days after your last pin is when you start clomid. Dont you think there's a reason for the standard protocol?


It obviously depends how much you have been running. People do things because that's what everyone else did and they don't ask questions.  Yes the "standard protocol" works but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. Scally's pct program has zero wait time from running DECA and still a 100% success rate in the main study.


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## Assassin32 (Dec 24, 2015)

Personally I'm on TRT, so I have no horse in this race. I was just explaining why it's normally done that way. Do whatever makes you happy. If Dr. Sally is your go to guy then rock on dude.


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## youngnjacked4ever (Dec 24, 2015)

please read about letrozole man..................best PCT ancillary on the market man.........


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## ToolSteel (Dec 24, 2015)

Stop recommending letro as a standalone pct man.............. That's ****ing stupid man.............


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