# Government Shut Down



## transcend2007 (Jan 24, 2019)

I'm a business owner so I'd admit that my political view are mostly conservative ... and fvck yes I'd like to see a border wall on our southern border ... 

But, I've had enough of both of the republicans and the democrats being unable or unwilling to do the jobs.  Seriously closing the government and using federal workers as pawns to their differences .... it just sucks ...

If I were as incompetent in my business as our government is I'd be out of business ... I get tired of people unable to the work required to results for our country ...!


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## BrotherJ (Jan 24, 2019)

Agreed, I hate to see people out of work. But then the libertarian in me also wonders why our government is so bloated and life keeps going on without big pieces of it being open. I'm definitely in favor of a border wall (Stephen Crowder has a great Change My Mind segment on it on YouTube right now) but I would like to see some sort of compromise from Dems on the issue. Word is the WH is trying to float a deal for DACA amnesty. Of course, compromise would mean not "resisting" whatever the hell that means.


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## snake (Jan 24, 2019)

They are all bunch of fuuks, both sides. You don't do that to your own people.


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## ToolSteel (Jan 24, 2019)

GOP tried to pay people. Dems shot it down.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 24, 2019)

ToolSteel said:


> GOP tried to pay people. Dems shot it down.



post hoc ergo propter hoc

It's almost never true.

Paying them is nice and all, but how about getting back to the business of running this country?


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## Yaya (Jan 24, 2019)

Pelosi is a mess

And yes it sucks for those affected and hopefully it ends soon..

Trump knows exactly what hes doing


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 24, 2019)

Honestly, I kind of respect Trump's stance on this. The wall was a big part of his campaign, one of his main promises to his voters, and...he's following up on it. You really can't argue against his stance here regardless of how you feel about the wall itself. 

You could say he needs to be more diplomatic. It is a democracy and part of the process is that you will not be able to do everything that you set out do. As pretty much every president in history has found out to some degree. But then again, that applies equally to the dems. They KNOW Trump is all about a short term deal that looks good so...make him an offer. 

I'm neutral on the whole thing beyond recognizing that the impact on the economy has been grossly overstated.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 24, 2019)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Honestly, I kind of respect Trump's stance on this. The wall was a big part of his campaign, one of his main promises to his voters, and...he's following up on it. You really can't argue against his stance here regardless of how you feel about the wall itself.
> 
> You could say he needs to be more diplomatic. It is a democracy and part of the process is that you will not be able to do everything that you set out do. As pretty much every president in history has found out to some degree. But then again, that applies equally to the dems. They KNOW Trump is all about a short term deal that looks good so...make him an offer.
> 
> I'm neutral on the whole thing beyond recognizing that the impact on the economy has been grossly overstated.



Donald Trump was not elected with a mandate. So while he may be keeping campaign promises, they are promises that a majority of the country did not want. (62m to Hilldawg at 65m votes)


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## transcend2007 (Jan 24, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> Donald Trump was not elected with a mandate. So while he may be keeping campaign promises, they are promises that a majority of the country did not want. (62m to Hilldawg at 65m votes)



Presidents are not elected by popular vote they are elected through the electoral college ... had Trump needed to win the popular vote he would have .. easily by campaigning in places like California and New York .... he could have gotten far more votes in those states but because they were winner take all electoral college states strategically he did not put any resources into them ... Hilary did the opposite by not investing her time and resources in smaller states that ultimately cost her the election ...

As for the the border wall and immigration ... neither republicans nor democrats want a solution ... repubs love the cheap labor and dems are growing the voter rolls for the future ... the truly sad part is no one (neither side) is doing what is the right thing for the country .. which would be to have a coherent immigration policy .... vet everyone who is coming here ... have immigration based on merit .... close the fvching southern border and enforce it seriously ... create a guest worker program (no need for more citizens ... just allow people to legally work) ... punish businesses caught hiring illegals ... have a procedure to confirm people who legal come her with a short term 6 month or other term visa ... do leave when it expires .... really not that hard really ...


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## ToolSteel (Jan 24, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> Donald Trump was not elected with a mandate. So while he may be keeping campaign promises, they are promises that a majority of the country did not want. (62m to Hilldawg at 65m votes)


You’re far too smart of a guy to really think that anything related to the pop vote means ****all. 

Its like winning your pl meet and the second place bragging that he could rep 405 more time than you. 
Who cares. That wasn’t the goal. It means nothing.


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## Metalhead1 (Jan 24, 2019)

Being a fed worker myself, but fortunately enough not being affected this time around, if poliicans pay were to be frozen when a shutdown happens, i believe we would have solutions a lot quicker.


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## MrRippedZilla (Jan 24, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> Donald Trump was not elected with a mandate. So while he may be keeping campaign promises, they are promises that a majority of the country did not want. (62m to Hilldawg at 65m votes)


I fail to see the relevance of that to be honest. He played the game that everyone else has to play in order to become president and won. He is the president. His campaign promises played a huge role in him winning. One of the biggest promises he made to his voting base was the wall. He's fighting hard to try and fulfill said promise. I see no issues here beyond what I stated earlier - this is a democracy. Presidents don't get to do whatever they promised the voters, which is why you have the current shutdown. 

Him winning with or without a mandate doesn't change the validity of his current position.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 24, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> Presidents are not elected by popular vote they are elected through the electoral college ... had Trump needed to win the popular vote he would have .. easily by campaigning in places like California and New York .... he could have gotten far more votes in those states but because they were winner take all electoral college states strategically he did not put any resources into them ... Hilary did the opposite by not investing her time and resources in smaller states that ultimately cost her the election ...
> 
> As for the the border wall and immigration ... neither republicans nor democrats want a solution ... repubs love the cheap labor and dems are growing the voter rolls for the future ... the truly sad part is no one (neither side) is doing what is the right thing for the country .. which would be to have a coherent immigration policy .... vet everyone who is coming here ... have immigration based on merit .... close the fvching southern border and enforce it seriously ... create a guest worker program (no need for more citizens ... just allow people to legally work) ... punish businesses caught hiring illegals ... have a procedure to confirm people who legal come her with a short term 6 month or other term visa ... do leave when it expires .... really not that hard really ...



I understand how our elections work. However, he was still elected without a mandate. The majority of people voted for someone else. That means he walks into office with zero political capital. And instead of playing the game and building that capital he throws temper tantrums and focuses solely on sucking off his base - which is a tiny minority. 

He will be the most ineffective and unprofessional POTUS we have ever seen. Significantly worse than Obama or Carter


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## Iron1 (Jan 24, 2019)

Illegal boarder crossings aren't even the main way people get in anymore... 


I guess when you ignore your infrastructure and health care systems long enough, nobody would want to come here anyway. Why do Americans constantly vote against their own interests?


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## transcend2007 (Jan 24, 2019)

Iron1 said:


> Illegal boarder crossings aren't even the main way people get in anymore...
> 
> 
> I guess when you ignore your infrastructure and health care systems long enough, nobody would want to come here anyway. Why do Americans constantly vote against their own interests?



Because Socialism fails 100% of the time ... would be the main reason ... the idea everyone deserves something for nothing ... instead of those that earn it through merit ... there is a reason that Venezuela is a disaster and why the US is the great country to ever have existed ... far from perfect - just better than everything else by a long shot ...

Even worse people do not learn from history ... and worst of all ... everyone has an opinion ... the fact that it's wrong of been proven through history to fail miserably does not stop people from having their opinion ... they shout the loudest .... they control the media and universities ... unfortunately for the rest of us this does not stop them from being wrong ....


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## Iron1 (Jan 24, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> Because Socialism fails 100% of the time



My statement had nothing to do with socialism. 

I'm suggesting that the tax money we pay into the system could be put to significantly better use than it is.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 24, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> Because Socialism fails 100% of the time ... would be the main reason ... the idea everyone deserves something for nothing ... instead of those that earn it through merit ... there is a reason that Venezuela is a disaster and why the US is the great country to ever have existed ... far from perfect - just better than everything else by a long shot ...
> 
> Even worse people do not learn from history ... and worst of all ... everyone has an opinion ... the fact that it's wrong of been proven through history to fail miserably does not stop people from having their opinion ... they shout the loudest .... they control the media and universities ... unfortunately for the rest of us this does not stop them from being wrong ....



In what area is the US the greatest country? Cause it's not infant mortality rate. It's not absence of poverty. It's not math or science. And we certainly have trashed our individual freedoms so we ain't the most free...


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## transcend2007 (Jan 24, 2019)

Iron1 said:


> My statement had nothing to do with socialism.
> 
> I'm suggesting that the tax money we pay into the system could be put to significantly better use than it is.



I agree with you there ... our tax dollars are wasted by both political parties NO doubt ....

However, what's little know is that over 50% of the working population pays no federal income tax ... as an example those earning $50,000 or less are likely getting back more than they contribute ... of course all tax payers pay social security and and medicare taxes...

My issue is with the fact that income is taxed progressively .... the more you earn the higher % you pay ... I believe a more fair way would be flat tax .... everyone pays 10% (or some reasonable number with NO deductions) .. that way low income pay their share ... highest incomes cannot hide their money through bs deductions ... and 6 figure and multiple 6 figure earners who are far from rich but pay a huge burden would also pay 10% like everyone else ...


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## transcend2007 (Jan 24, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> In what area is the US the greatest country? Cause it's not infant mortality rate. It's not absence of poverty. It's not math or science. And we certainly have trashed our individual freedoms so we ain't the most free...



POB sometimes I cannot tell when you're joking and in this case I hope you are ... 

Never is history has a country done more good and asked for less than the US (WWII is a great example)... could you imagine if China or Russia had our military .... the rest of the world would be speaking Russian or Chinese ... we also done more to promote democracy than another other country in history.  This no small thing.

But even more important the US is the land of opportunity .... because no matter who you are where you are born in this country you can rise up (there are millions of examples of this fact) ... no where else in history has than been possible ... why do you think people are willing to leave everything behind to come here or even die trying to get here...?

The things young people take for granted here is remarkable ... and it's sad ... because many people who are citizens who live here hate this country ... but in reality that's because they have NO fvcking idea what esle is out there ... they only know they do not like the results they've gotten in their own lives ... but not because the country is not great ... but because people are lazy ... this is why we see examples of legal immigrants who move here from Asia with nothing within 10 years are millionaires ... they do whatever it takes ... many native born Americans .... have it so easy but want it better because they see on TV someone else is doing better ... as I said in another thread .. they should turn off the TV and get their arses to work ...!


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## Yaya (Jan 24, 2019)

NOBODY stands a chance against him in 2020


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## Elivo (Jan 24, 2019)

Yaya said:


> NOBODY stands a chance against him in 2020



Sorry, but I think a blind monkey with a jacket would give him a good run for his money, had it been pretty much any one other than Clinton he ran against he would have lost. 
People really don’t care for her at all.

yeah his base loves him, but as POB said that is a very small number compared to the rest of the country. He is doing nothing to win the rest over.

as far as the dumb ass wall crap that is keeping people from getting paid, I’m fairly sure his campaign promise was also making Mexico pay for it.....


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## daddyboul (Jan 24, 2019)

What pisses me off is they call it a political science despite it being based on moral and ethical opinions which are not science, it's a pissing contest. I also hate how anytime we try to bring logical arguments to the table like E.O Wilson or Richard Dawkins, the politicians will just resort to Ad hominem because they lack any mental capacity to form a logical argument against them. E.O Wilson presents the idea of tribalism? Welp, I guess I'll just call him a racist because I don't know how to respond to that. How are we suppose to evolve culturally as a species when anytime a new or different idea is presented we attack them and disregard anything they say? In my eyes, this is all politics is nowadays, a pissing contest of moral and ethics.


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## Yaya (Jan 24, 2019)

Elivo said:


> Sorry, but I think a blind monkey with a jacket would give him a good run for his money, had it been pretty much any one other than Clinton he ran against he would have lost.
> People really don’t care for her at all.
> 
> yeah his base loves him, but as POB said that is a very small number compared to the rest of the country. He is doing nothing to win the rest over.
> ...



Just like I called it on this forum a few years ago.  U will see.. I'm usually wrong about something once every 6 years. I was wrong 4 weeks ago about something I thought I was right about. Do the math. He wins easily


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## Bro Bundy (Jan 24, 2019)

To bad we are governed by satanic pedophiles that love none stop war. The America is #1 is very 80s . This country is in the fukkin toilet  and only getting worse


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## transcend2007 (Jan 24, 2019)

Elivo said:


> Sorry, but I think a blind monkey with a jacket would give him a good run for his money, had it been pretty much any one other than Clinton he ran against he would have lost.
> People really don’t care for her at all.
> 
> yeah his base loves him, but as POB said that is a very small number compared to the rest of the country. He is doing nothing to win the rest over.
> ...



I find it amazing that everyone seems to remember Trumps campaign promise but seemed to have forgotten Obama's and every other previous presidential candidate who's ever run for office ... I'm no Trump fan but I have to admit he's kept many of his campaign promises ... but back to the wall dems and pubs have previously promised barriers on the southern border ... and no one does anything ... that's the part I find amazing.


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## Seeker (Jan 24, 2019)

this is all about 2020. The dems know if he gets his wall hes locked in for a 2nd run. c'mon people it's so ****ing obvious what this is all about. Pelosi is a cancer to this country. oh, and Trump just issued a national security crisis. lol build the the wall!


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## Yaya (Jan 25, 2019)

Seeker said:


> this is all about 2020. The dems know if he gets his wall hes locked in for a 2nd run. c'mon people it's so ****ing obvious what this is all about. Pelosi is a cancer to this country. oh, and Trump just issued a national security crisis. lol build the the wall!



Yeeaaaaaaaa


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## Yaya (Jan 25, 2019)

Seeker said:


> this is all about 2020. The dems know if he gets his wall hes locked in for a 2nd run. c'mon people it's so ****ing obvious what this is all about. Pelosi is a cancer to this country. oh, and Trump just issued a national security crisis. lol build the the wall!



He did?? Wow


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 25, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> I find it amazing that everyone seems to remember Trumps campaign promise but seemed to have forgotten Obama's and every other previous presidential candidate who's ever run for office ... I'm no Trump fan but I have to admit he's kept many of his campaign promises ... but back to the wall dems and pubs have previously promised barriers on the southern border ... and no one does anything ... that's the part I find amazing.



Nobody does anything because it's a fake issue. Mexicans are his boogey man coming for your blonde haired blue eyed daughters with intentions of rape. Just like bush used Muslims who were... Let's see if I can do this without laughing... "Jealous of our freedom" lolololol

This notion that all these illegals are here and on food stamps and subsidized housing and have this great lifestyle on the backs of the middle class is bullshit. 

The rich have a great lifestyle on the backs of the middle class and the third world poor. And I say this while living in a very affluent part of this Country.


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## DieYoungStrong (Jan 25, 2019)

What is a “non-essential” govt employee anyways? If your job isn’t essential to running the govt, you shouldn’t have a job on the taxpayers dime. The govt has become so big and bloated that it’s a joke.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 25, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> POB sometimes I cannot tell when you're joking and in this case I hope you are ...
> 
> Never is history has a country done more good and asked for less than the US (WWII is a great example)... could you imagine if China or Russia had our military .... the rest of the world would be speaking Russian or Chinese ... we also done more to promote democracy than another other country in history.  This no small thing.
> 
> ...



Flat tax is my ****ing G spot!!!

So I wasn't kidding about what I said though. America is not the greatest. We have a potential that is undeniable. But we can't get around the table and solve our biggest problems.

We have an education system that is over 200 years old.

Social security is going broke

We are pretending climate change isn't happening

All of our individual rights are being replaced by collective rights or simply taken from us

We don't respect our elders

We prepare for nothing and instead pay double after disaster strikes

We continue electing total ****ing idiots 

We demonize others with different opinions

We are arrogant and think every one of our problems can be solved with technology. A ww2 era way of thinking that doesn't work. We can't buy our way out of everything.

I could go on and on. The list is a mile long. 



Bro Bundy said:


> To bad we are governed by satanic pedophiles that love none stop war. The America is #1 is very 80s . This country is in the fukkin toilet  and only getting worse



Pizzagate?


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## Elivo (Jan 25, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> I find it amazing that everyone seems to remember Trumps campaign promise but seemed to have forgotten Obama's and every other previous presidential candidate who's ever run for office ... I'm no Trump fan but I have to admit he's kept many of his campaign promises ... but back to the wall dems and pubs have previously promised barriers on the southern border ... and no one does anything ... that's the part I find amazing.




Its not a matter of forgetting the others promises, it’s just they don’t matter anymore. Who cares what Obama or bush or Clinton or regan or anyone else said, they are gone and have no bearing at all on the current conversation.


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## Elivo (Jan 25, 2019)

Yaya said:


> He did?? Wow



It will get chewed up and spit out in court. And from what I read he is preparing a draft saying it, hasn’t actually done it yet.


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## BrotherJ (Jan 25, 2019)

I definitely agree that the US is losing out on a lot of individual freedoms (gun control, drug war etc...) but then I see news stories about people in the UK being arrested for "hate speech" or people in Germany being investigated for "offensive tweets" - on top of the European Union basically being a technocratic bureaucracy with little oversight, or checks and balances via the ballot box. Other than Canada (which has shitty gun laws but is otherwise top notch) I can't really think of anywhere else that enjoys the semblance of "being left the **** alone" like we have in the US. Things certainly aren't perfect here, but it could be, and is, a lot worse in most other modern nations. 

To clarify - I'm not saying other countries are all shit and the US is #1 WHOOO just saying by and large the US seems to do all things fairly decent, while other countries may have really good healthcare but shitty democrat representation, bad drug laws, gun laws etc...i.e the US scores a B- across the board and most other nations score an A on some stuff and a F on some stuff, in my humble opinion.


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## Elivo (Jan 25, 2019)

Stop and think what 5 billion could do as far as stuff the country actually needs, that could build a shit load of schools and fix a lot of roads.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 25, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> POB sometimes I cannot tell when you're joking and in this case I hope you are ...
> 
> Never is history has a country done more good and asked for less than the US (WWII is a great example)... could you imagine if China or Russia had our military .... the rest of the world would be speaking Russian or Chinese ... we also done more to promote democracy than another other country in history.  This no small thing.
> 
> ...





Elivo said:


> Stop and think what 5 billion could do as far as stuff the country actually needs, that could build a shit load of schools and fix a lot of roads.



Or a nice refund


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## Elivo (Jan 25, 2019)

BrotherJ said:


> I definitely agree that the US is losing out on a lot of individual freedoms (gun control, drug war etc...) but then I see news stories about people in the UK being arrested for "hate speech" or people in Germany being investigated for "offensive tweets" - on top of the European Union basically being a technocratic bureaucracy with little oversight, or checks and balances via the ballot box. Other than Canada (which has shitty gun laws but is otherwise top notch) I can't really think of anywhere else that enjoys the semblance of "being left the **** alone" like we have in the US. Things certainly aren't perfect here, but it could be, and is, a lot worse in most other modern nations.
> 
> To clarify - I'm not saying other countries are all shit and the US is #1 WHOOO just saying by and large the US seems to do all things fairly decent, while other countries may have really good healthcare but shitty democrat representation, bad drug laws, gun laws etc...i.e the US scores a B- across the board and most other nations score an A on some stuff and a F on some stuff, in my humble opinion.



I actually am of the opinion our gun laws are the ones that suck. The like 2 or 3 we have that is lol


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## BrotherJ (Jan 25, 2019)

Elivo said:


> I actually am of the opinion our gun laws are the ones that suck. The like 2 or 3 we have that is lol



There's actually quite a few!

Here's a link to the overall federal laws and if you click there is a list of state-by state laws, as well. I think it's a bit of a misnomer that people believe there are no laws on the books. IMO, we need less gun laws but enforcing the ones we actually have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States


Edit: Also, here's a DOJ study stating that fewer than 2% (>1 in 50) criminals obtained their guns legally - IOW, they obtained their firearms on the black market and not at a retail or private sale or gun show. More than half were obtained via theft, the rest via the black market, and a small percentage via finding them. So, by and large any new gun laws would have an impact on about less than 2% of any crime in the US (guns obtained legally) vs. the vast majority (98%) obtained illegally. I literally can't think of any new gun laws, other than a safe storage law(?) that would impact any of the current crime rates based on how they happen. 

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf


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## El Gringo (Jan 25, 2019)

Socialists, I mean democrats will never allow a wall. they voted for a fence back in 06' pretending they care. Is someone going to walk thousands of miles and turn around because a 5 ft fence is in their way? studies show that illegal immigrants, when granted the ability to vote they turn democrat. why? because democrats give them welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, and they don't pay taxes. services that are supposed to be for citizens who are less fortunate because of certain disabilities. Venezuelans leave their poverty ridden socialist country and despite living the failures of socialism, they'll vote for far left democrats. 

It goes beyond just a few rapists and killers. What about all those legal immigrants who spend years dealing with VISA's and who pay their taxes? it's not fair for them. 
There's other countries in South America that have a stable economy [Uruguay, Chile, Argentina] why don't they go there? because those countries won't let them and have border security. but the fake news won't report that. a lot of countries in the world have selective immigration based on people's skills and what they have to offer the country.

Democrats want poverty ridden people coming into this country, because they'll get their vote. Eventually at the pace they are coming, Republicans won't stand a chance if they keep coming in. If Trump caves, it's the end of the Republican Party and the birth of Socialism, and then the demise of the United States. It's crazy that people support socialism. We spent half of the 20th century fighting socialism/globalism and now its in our own backyard.

Democrats have gone extremely far left. all the moderate/tradional democrats lost the midterms to radical far left socialists. Look at Alexandria-Octavio Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ihan Omar. They have attacked all kinds of races and encourage violence. they have created so much hate and divided this country. they've attacked men [toxic masculinity] harass women, African Americans, and latinos who side with trump. Infact they'll call anybody who supports trump a bigoted racists, because they think that he is. They discredit everything Trump does, and if they acknowledge he did something good, they give the credit to Obama. 

The Left has control of all media, TV, newspapers, celebrities, social media. they continuously twist stories and make their own assumptions, and when they get caught lying they never admit it and continue to push their lies [Mueller, Kavanaugh, Midterm election fraud, Buzzfeed's Cohen report, the Kentucky High school kids]. Look at comments all over social media. Democrats say those most hateful obscene things. they try to win political debates by saying "**** you I will rape all your children". The amount of hate is ridiculous. they hate this country, and want to destroy it. They have brainwashed this country and divided everyone [look at the other social media thread that the OP created, they have made everyone addicted to social media] They will crash the economy and put everyone in poverty just so they can get Trump out and regain power. It's pretty amazing how the economy was surging under Trump with all the opposition he has faced. imagine if they just let him do his job. 

America has been getting screwed by other countries for decades. China pays a 2.5 percent tax on exports, but the US pays 25 percent. that leads to manufactures sending it's jobs overseas, rather than keeping jobs in the US. the US pays for 72 percent of NATO which is Europes military. Why do we pay for any of it? No wonder people in France and Germany get a minimum of 3 months vacation. US tax payers are paying for other countries. We work our ass off here and get maybe 3 weeks of vacation, while all of Europe is on vacation.

There is no middle-ground. you either want a wall or you don't. you either want everyone to dip into your hard earned paycheck or you want to continue living in a Capitalistic society that our forefathers created. If you hate government then why the hell would you vote for more of it? [Socialism]


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## Mythos (Jan 25, 2019)

They need to start looking at legislation that ends these stupid shutdowns. If theres a budget dispute then it should be limited to whatever agency the dispute is over instead of 800,000 workers and fuk knows how many contractors out of work


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## BrotherJ (Jan 25, 2019)

Senators, Representatives and their staff should also forego salaries until the shutdown is over too. Some of them (on both sides of the aisle) are living pretty high on the hog. At the end of the day, illegal immigration costs the US anywhere from $100B+ per year (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317)

 It's an issue that does need to be addressed. Establishing a border wall isn't some magical solution, but it's definitely one solution on top of many others. I was talking to a guy this morning at the gym who immigrated from Peru (originally born in Italy) - he made it to the US legally, went through the naturalization process, and joined the Army and served in Vietnam (a ****ed up situation to be sure). That's a dude I want immigrating here - and in fact I'd like to see our naturalization process made much, much easier for people like that.


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## El Gringo (Jan 25, 2019)

BrotherJ said:


> Senators, Representatives and their staff should also forego salaries until the shutdown is over too. Some of them (on both sides of the aisle) are living pretty high on the hog. At the end of the day, illegal immigration costs the US anywhere from $100B+ per year (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317)
> 
> It's an issue that does need to be addressed. Establishing a border wall isn't some magical solution, but it's definitely one solution on top of many others. I was talking to a guy this morning at the gym who immigrated from Peru (originally born in Italy) - he made it to the US legally, went through the naturalization process, and joined the Army and served in Vietnam (a ****ed up situation to be sure). That's a dude I want immigrating here - and in fact I'd like to see our naturalization process made much, much easier for people like that.


they got it backwards. congress are the ones who shouldn't be getting paid. they are the reason for the shutdown, and yet there they are taking vacations, while everyone else is working with no pay. what is the point of a government shutdown when everyone is still working? government workers should stop showing up for work and let all the airports close. riots will fill the streets,  then congress will have to do something.


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## Yaya (Jan 25, 2019)

Anyone find Ocasio-Cortez attractive ?


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## German89 (Jan 25, 2019)

soo... kinda random... not that i'm in the states any more.. but does it still affect tax return? (that will affect me)


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## El Gringo (Jan 25, 2019)

yaya said:


> anyone find ocasio-cortez attractive ?






no


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## Yaya (Jan 25, 2019)

El Gringo said:


> View attachment 7253
> View attachment 7254
> 
> no



Awesome......lol


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## Viduus (Jan 25, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> I agree with you there ... our tax dollars are wasted by both political parties NO doubt ....
> 
> However, what's little know is that over 50% of the working population pays no federal income tax ... as an example those earning $50,000 or less are likely getting back more than they contribute ... of course all tax payers pay social security and and medicare taxes...
> 
> My issue is with the fact that income is taxed progressively .... the more you earn the higher % you pay ... I believe a more fair way would be flat tax .... everyone pays 10% (or some reasonable number with NO deductions) .. that way low income pay their share ... highest incomes cannot hide their money through bs deductions ... and 6 figure and multiple 6 figure earners who are far from rich but pay a huge burden would also pay 10% like everyone else ...



I’ll agree with you on a “flat tax” when my roads are $499 smother then someone who pays $1 for the roads or when the military protects my house with $499 dollars of more care.

Until then, if we’re both getting the same quality of roads and protection we better both be paying the same dollar amount. It’s the same way every other good and service I buy works.

”flat tax” my a$$ 
:32 (13):


----------



## Viduus (Jan 25, 2019)

Yaya said:


> Anyone find Ocasio-Cortez attractive ?



I am against everything she stands for but yes. In Certain photos she’s not to bad to look at and she certainly has a nice figure. 

Of course this has no bearing on why she gets media attention - none at all.


----------



## stonetag (Jan 25, 2019)

The wilderness hideaway, and the hermit lifestyle looks better, and better each year.


----------



## Maijah (Jan 25, 2019)

Yaya said:


> Anyone find Ocasio-Cortez attractive ?



Yes I wanna Piitb


----------



## Iron1 (Jan 25, 2019)

Happy Friday, folks. Lets not forget that we're all in this together. 
Be good to each other.


----------



## Yaya (Jan 25, 2019)

Big news coming today


----------



## HollyWoodCole (Jan 25, 2019)

Yaya said:


> Big news coming today


Did Trump call you on the bat phone saying the wall is getting built?


----------



## snake (Jan 25, 2019)

HollyWoodCole said:


> Did Trump call you on the bat phone saying the wall is getting built?



Trump does nothing without Yaya's input.


----------



## snake (Jan 25, 2019)

Not for nothing but the media is just salivating over all this. 

This morning the wife had the news on to see what schools were closed. I hate the news and it's only worse in the morning. Some woman was sensationalizing how hard these government workers have it, "We have people sleeping in their cars because they can not afford the cost of gas to get back and forth to work."

WTF? Seriously! Ballpark, what's it take to get back and forth to work, a gallon of gas both ways on average? Gas around $3 a gallon and we're taking 6 bucks port to port and back. So we are believe that someone with an above average paying job doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together? What's next, they are burning the furniture to stay warm?

I feel bad for those government workers but come on, you're a POS if you exaggerate this situation to better your party's position.


----------



## Iron1 (Jan 25, 2019)

Is it that hard to believe that in a country where 58% of people have less than $1000 in savings, missing two paychecks in a row can be life changing?

Rent is due and these guys haven't had a paycheck in two weeks.


----------



## snake (Jan 25, 2019)

Iron1 said:


> Is it that hard to believe that in a country where 58% of people have less than $1000 in savings, missing two paychecks in a row can be life changing?
> 
> Rent is due and these guys haven't had a paycheck in two weeks.



I don't think we are talking about that 58% but I could see the undue financial stress.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Jan 25, 2019)

snake said:


> I don't think we are talking about that 58% but I could see the undue financial stress.



We are talking about them though. Federal employees are overwhelmingly middle class. And the middle class is hurting in this country. Wages have been stagnant since the 70's. 

Your average person living in suburban Boston commutes let's say 10 to 20 miles into town. That trip in the morning and evening can take 1 to 2 hours every day each way. It takes a lot more gas than you would think. 

Our elected officials aren't doing anything to support average Americans. And now they are actively hurting them. This is disgusting behavior.


----------



## DF (Jan 25, 2019)

They're all a bunch of assholes!  I can't take it!


----------



## ToolSteel (Jan 25, 2019)

HollyWoodCole said:


> Did Trump call you on the bat phone saying the wall is getting built?


Yaya is mike pence’s brother


----------



## transcend2007 (Jan 25, 2019)

Like Ronald Reagan said now now approaching 40 years ago .... and it is equally if not more true today ... Government is not the solution to our problems ... Government is the problem ... 

This is my problem with Socialism or whiners who hate America 1st ... this country is great because it provides the potential for its citizens to be great (and if it's less great it's because today's citizens are less great than previous generations) ... our US constitution makes it possible if you're a citizen and willing to do the work anything is possible ... but this idea that health care is owed ... or college & higher education should be free - are flat out UnAmerican concepts ... if you want them then get off your arse and level-up ... where did the idea come from that the government owes anything ... people (we) are responsible for our own outcomes ... period ...!


----------



## gymrat827 (Jan 25, 2019)

each party needs to give a bit

rep's need come down from 5.7 bill and dems need to come up from 1.3 bill.  say 3.2 billion and everyone has to deal & cope 

Give a little, take a little, let your poor heart break a little


----------



## Yaya (Jan 25, 2019)

Yaya said:


> Big news coming today



Damn Yaya, I would love to know how u get ur information


----------



## Elivo (Jan 25, 2019)

Shut down over it seems, without the funding for a wall. Apparently that part is going to continue to be negotiated....at least people can start getting paid again.


----------



## Iron1 (Jan 25, 2019)

gymrat827 said:


> say 3.2 billion and everyone has to deal & cope



That 5.7 billion is just money to get started. The DHS is estimating the total project cost to be in excess of 22 billion and we all know how accurate THOSE sort of estimates are. The Big Dig comes to mind. 2.8 billion dollar estimate that turned into a 22 billion ordeal. That hole, like this proposed wall, failed to provide the benefit it promised with astronomical expense. I think the issue is that even 3 billion being granted is a commitment to something much larger. 




transcend2007 said:


> but this idea that health care is owed ... or college & higher education should be free - are flat out UnAmerican concepts ... if you want them then get off your arse and level-up ... where did the idea come from that the government owes anything ... people (we) are responsible for our own outcomes ... period ...!



I don't get it. Wouldn't someone who wants a strong country want to have strong, healthy countrymen? Wouldn't a proud American want to have the most educated people on the planet? Wouldn't a proud American want to be a technological world leader? How do we do any of that if we are putting the resources to be those things behind pay walls? 

I don't understand the concept of wanting to be the best country while only looking out for oneself. How does this "**** you, I got mine" attitude make anything better as a whole? 

You know, I find this argument within the context of this thread discussing a wall to be super hilarious. Know the easiest way to get over a wall? Team work, work together and pull others up and over with you. The Mexicans can do it, why can't we? :32 (18):

My dude, the government does owe us, that's why we pay taxes. Things like the interstate system wouldn't exist if it weren't for the government. There is a US Department of Education, what do you think they're supposed to do? Other countries all over the world use this model and their quality of life and education is surpassing ours.

Spicy thread is spicy.


----------



## DF (Jan 25, 2019)

I think they agreed to fund one of those 3' high white picket fences.


----------



## gymrat827 (Jan 25, 2019)

Iron1 said:


> That 5.7 billion is just money to get started. The DHS is estimating the total project cost to be in excess of 22 billion and we all know how accurate THOSE sort of estimates are. The Big Dig comes to mind. 2.8 billion dollar estimate that turned into a 22 billion ordeal. I think the issue is that even 3 billion being granted is a commitment to something much larger.




Like a F22 and F35's that ended up being 5-8x the projected cost.....

I know, the wall would be a huge expense.  if they say 22 bill, all day it will be 100/125


----------



## transcend2007 (Jan 25, 2019)

Iron1 said:


> I don't get it. Wouldn't someone who wants a strong country want to have strong, healthy countrymen? Wouldn't a proud American want to have the most educated people on the planet? Wouldn't a proud American want to be a technological world leader? How do we do any of that if we are putting the resources to be those things behind pay walls?
> 
> I don't understand the concept of wanting to be the best country while only looking out for oneself. How does this "**** you, I got mine" attitude make anything better as a whole?
> 
> ...



The answer is simple .. you educate and provide health care to those who pay for it ... this idea of giving it to everyone is not possible ... countries like Canada and other Socialists countries do not provide it to everyone either ... they have lines and people die waiting ... 

When you remove the motivation to work for things this is the beginning of failure ... and idea that everyone is the same is also overly simple minded ... people not willing to earn things through merit don't want anyone to have it either simply because the cannot have it also is the beginning of failure ... I wish I would have been born 50 years earlier honestly ... because to hear young people here and elsewhere it is hard for me to understand ... you have access to everything but cannot see or understand that fact ...  many believe that they are entitled ... this was not the idea our country was built on .. but this thinking will bring it to an end which we are already rapidly approaching ...


----------



## Iron1 (Jan 25, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> The answer is simple .. you educate and provide health care to those who pay for it ...



Getting back to my department of education thing; what do you think they're there for?

Part of it is to provide grant money for education. 2019 has something like 130 billion set aside for education loans and grants. So to counter your point, the government we have is already funding education. A big part of what my point is is that they're funneling our tax dollars into the hands of private educators. Just look at that ****wit Devo's, she's the head of the DoE and she's trying to funnelae much money as she can away from public education.

Every time the loan threshold goes up, the education cost go up all the same. Anyone who pays income tax is already paying for education for others. Instead of $130 b in loans, let's spend that $130 billion on providing public education for the masses. The money is already spent, what's the argument against using it in the most impactful way?


----------



## Elivo (Jan 25, 2019)

Iron1 said:


> Getting back to my department of education thing; what do you think they're there for?
> 
> Part of it is to provide grant money for education. 2019 has something like 130 billion set aside for education loans and grants. So to counter your point, the government we have is already funding education. A big part of what my point is is that they're funneling our tax dollars into the hands of private educators.
> 
> Every time the loan threshold goes up, the education cost go up all the same. Anyone who pays income tax is already paying for education for others. Instead of $140 b in loans, let's spend that $140 billion on providing public education for the masses. The money is already spent, what's the argument against using it in the most impactful way?



Can say pretty much the same for healthcare, you are already paying for others health care right now. Why not come up with a system that helps the most?


----------



## BrotherJ (Jan 25, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> Like Ronald Reagan said now now approaching 40 years ago .... and it is equally if not more true today ... Government is not the solution to our problems ... Government is the problem ...
> 
> This is my problem with Socialism or whiners who hate America 1st ... this country is great because it provides the potential for its citizens to be great (and if it's less great it's because today's citizens are less great than previous generations) ... our US constitution makes it possible if you're a citizen and willing to do the work anything is possible ... but this idea that health care is owed ... or college & higher education should be free - are flat out UnAmerican concepts ... if you want them then get off your arse and level-up ... where did the idea come from that the government owes anything ... people (we) are responsible for our own outcomes ... period ...!




My niece in our group chat the other (she's in her early 20s and not close to her that much) stated she was super upset about the government shutdown and was raging against Trump because "I want my tax return and food stamps".

Sadly, I think this sense of entitlement is pretty much the mainstream now. That's why socialism is so popular with The Kids these days since everyone feels they deserve a handout.


----------



## Elivo (Jan 25, 2019)

BrotherJ said:


> My niece in our group chat the other (she's in her early 20s and not close to her that much) stated she was super upset about the government shutdown and was raging against Trump because "I want my tax return and food stamps".
> 
> Sadly, I think this sense of entitlement is pretty much the mainstream now. That's why socialism is so popular with The Kids these days since everyone feels they deserve a handout.




Ill be the first to admit there is a lot of this.
i would be all for a way that the people who are just taking advantage of the system are reigned in and the ones who really need it get what they need.

unfortunetly I’m not sure how you cut out one and protect those in real need. 

I see it it every day at work, people come in and want a prescription for Tylenol or Motrin because that way they don’t have to pay for it.  The shit cost a dollar in a dollar store for ****s sake!!!

but there are people who need it and can’t just pull themselves up as a lot like to say, and letting them hang out to dry is just wrong.

all of this is off topic I know, but to be back on topic, govent open, no wall as of now. 
Guess we have to see what happens next.

but one thing is clear, BOTH sides are doing a great job at putting party before country!


----------



## Iron1 (Jan 25, 2019)

Govt may be open but there's still over a million govt contractors not getting back pay for this asinine shutdown.

Are we tired of winning yet?

Poor bastards


----------



## Viduus (Jan 26, 2019)

DF said:


> I think they agreed to fund one of those 3' high white picket fences.



A virtual 3’ high white picket fence.


----------



## Viduus (Jan 26, 2019)

Iron1 said:


> I don't get it. Wouldn't someone who wants a strong country want to have strong, healthy countrymen? Wouldn't a proud American want to have the most educated people on the planet? Wouldn't a proud American want to be a technological world leader? How do we do any of that if we are putting the resources to be those things behind pay walls?
> 
> I don't understand the concept of wanting to be the best country while only looking out for oneself. How does this "**** you, I got mine" attitude make anything better as a whole?
> 
> ...



It’s amazing how we overthrew the British, created our modern constitutional republic, invented electricity, connected the coasts of a giant continent , transformed society through the first and second industrial revolutions all before income tax was made constitutional in 1913. 

I guess history has forgotten about those little things because they pale in comparison to the modern marvel of common core mathematics the department of education divinely bestowed upon us. Now we can make real advances.


----------



## Yaya (Jan 26, 2019)

So many paragraphs 
Let me know when u are ready


----------



## BigSwolePump (Jan 26, 2019)

The US budget for 2019 is 4.4 TRILLION dollars.  5 Billion is literally less than a comparison of a PENNY to a DOLLAR. 

Illegal immigrants cost more than 150 Billion per year to the American taxpayer, again pennies on the dollar for a positive step towards securing our border. 42% of illegal immigrants are here on expired visas(still a huge issue) but the rest cross our borders illegally. The wall isn't the fix, its the beginning of a much bigger step in securing our boarders. You can't fix a leak until you repair the pipe.

Anyone who really believes that the wall is not a step in the right direction is either blind or just a bandwagon trump hater. 

Border security has been talked about from every president but now that someone is actually moving forward, the opposing side of the government is doing what they always do... STOPPING PROGRESS.

Both Republican and Democrats are worthless pieces of shit. Your "elected" representatives don't give a fuk about you or what is in your best interest. Congress/Senate has been the issue with this country for decades. 

They stopped Obama and now they are stopping Trump.


The bullshit soap opera that most of American sheep find themselves including themselves in are caused by Congress/Senate and delivered by the media.

The TRUTH is this, if Hillary would have won and proposed the exact same thing, the liberals would agree and the Conservatives would have disagreed.

All of this is because the OWNERS tell them what to do!

Most of Americans are too stupid to see this....


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 26, 2019)

satanic pedophiles...Look into it


----------



## ToolSteel (Jan 26, 2019)

Yaya said:


> So many paragraphs
> Let me know when u are ready


I’m always ready


----------



## DieYoungStrong (Jan 26, 2019)

There’s always Canada for those who don’t like the American way. I hear it’s great up there. This country was never intended to be socialist. If the Founding Fathers saw what this country has become, they’d think we are a bunch of pussies.


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 26, 2019)

america never truly got away from the crown of england..The red coats couldnt win in a fist fight but they got us in different ways


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 26, 2019)

how come we only got these shitty ass fuks to choose from to be our president? Why are we only able to elect instead of select ? How come no body asks these questions


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 26, 2019)

Luiferian praying to archon possessed child fukking elite war loving old fuks...thats all we get here


----------



## BigSwolePump (Jan 26, 2019)

DieYoungStrong said:


> There’s always Canada for those who don’t like the American way. I hear it’s great up there. This country was never intended to be socialist. *If the Founding Fathers saw what this country has become, they’d think we are a bunch of pussies.*



Unfortunately that is exactly what the majority of Americans, especially males have become. Gender pronouns, fag marches, feminist...all of this has been allowed and is now ruling the stronger, dominate Americans. Hell, I probably just offended a pussy but saying FAG. Im old school..fuk em!


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 27, 2019)

the war on testosterone ,the transexual agenda,gay hip hop,pussification of the american male is all done for the simple reason its easier to control pussies then high test angry horny men..Dumb fuks have no idea what im talking about in fact 90% reading this are gonna think im just some drug addicted paranoid idiot that watches youtube videos all day..I fukkin hate talking or trying to explain this to anyone..Religion has people thinking Luciferians are sitting around a fire in a red devil costume..Its not that at all ive been around these sick fukkers..Its dr,lawyers ,businessmen,Judges,politicians ...Thats the real religion of these assholes u guys are electing , seeing  on tv everyday and the ones u dont see..These elections are a huge joke on the people to make them think u have some say in anything


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 27, 2019)

Ive been talking about this for 20 years now


----------



## Bro Bundy (Jan 27, 2019)

cricket ..cricket..cricket...My job is done here


----------



## knightmare999 (Jan 27, 2019)

I wish the best for all of the men and women caught up in the shutdown: employees with checks held back and contractors who won't get paid.


----------



## transcend2007 (Jan 27, 2019)

The real question is at what point does the population hold our politicians (and media) for increasing their level of productivity for those who they serve ... it's high time the members of both parties (pubs and dems) hold our politicians to higher standards ... the fact the we're so easily manipulated into arguing over the smallest things ... and letting our politicians off the hook from dong their fvcking jobs - which was the point of this post ... and we can all see that we each revert back to the talking points of either our generation / political party / closely held beliefs ... but almost no agreement that our politicians and media should be notified their free rides is over ... and the miss information bs will no longer work .. but the people require certain things ... like real borders ... a health care solution ... 10 or 12 main ideas that really are not that hard ... but the truth is huge money interests on both sides keep the country from the results we deserve ... my only point is it's high time for something better ...


----------



## PillarofBalance (Jan 27, 2019)

BrotherJ said:


> My niece in our group chat the other (she's in her early 20s and not close to her that much) stated she was super upset about the government shutdown and was raging against Trump because "I want my tax return and food stamps".
> 
> Sadly, I think this sense of entitlement is pretty much the mainstream now. That's why socialism is so popular with The Kids these days since everyone feels they deserve a handout.



This isn't quite accurate. I can understand how it appears this way. But that's just not what it really is.

It's not a sense of entitlement. It's simply the attitude of a generation who has been preyed upon and they are sick of it.

What do you expect from a generation who is expected to pay a hundred thousand dollars for a college degree that everyone in their life has been telling them they MUST have. And why do we allow such tremendous interest rates on student loans?

Then after strapping them with massive debt early on we tell them they can't ever buy a house because of avacado toast.

And even though they are young and healthy their healthcare costs a **** ton because they are subsidizing a generation many times the size of their own. 

You crusty old ****s love bitching about this useless generation while ignoring the fact that the generation before them handed them a turd for an economy a broken healthcare system, a world in ****ing chaos and a system of values that puts money before human dignity.

And then to talk about American values?

Capitalism isn't what made America great. Immigration did. Fresh ideas. Building something for our children did. Respecting our environment, the air we breathe and the water we drink did.

The OP's generation exercised policy making in sociopathic fashion. So shut the **** up about my generation. We are just playing the shitty hand you all dealt us and telling you that your values can burn. We have our own thank you very much. And they don't include letting people suffer and die in agony so my savings account can be bigger. 

Socialism isnt actually popular among my age group anyway. 

All we want is equity.


----------



## DieYoungStrong (Jan 27, 2019)

I’m not going to quote that giant post, but the mellenials answer to most of these problems involves more government. Big Govt is the problem, not the answer.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Jan 28, 2019)

DieYoungStrong said:


> I’m not going to quote that giant post, but the mellenials answer to most of these problems involves more government. Big Govt is the problem, not the answer.



Bureaucracy is the problem not government. Massive corporations that somehow get a pass from anti-trust laws. Religious organizations that align their values with political parties and ideaology. Labor unions that are given special privileges that can crush small business owners. More government at the federal level and less and the local level where you actually can get a say. 

If we aren't going to do absolute individual freedom, where there is no crime if there is no victim, then let's at least make sure kids are getting their vaccinations, and if a high school graduate wants to go to college, let him pay for it but at least make it a no interest loan for ****s sake.


----------



## Elivo (Jan 28, 2019)

I’ve always had a very strong belief that religion of any kind has no place in government or dictating what kind of laws are made. 
I don’t give 2 shits what anyone practices but the idea that because your religion says it’s bad we all have to abide by it. One of the things I hated about G. W.


----------



## Robdjents (Jan 28, 2019)

I’ll be happy when it all burns to the ground...and it will. Maybe not in our lifetime but this country will see a massive government failure and it will be glorious...one can hope right


----------



## Iron1 (Jan 28, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> Building something for our children did.



"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit."




Robdjents said:


> I’ll be happy when it all burns to the ground...and it will. Maybe not in our lifetime but this country will see a massive government failure and it will be glorious...one can hope right



I doubt it will be glorious. The ruling class will be the last to feel the effects of their own failures. They'll bleed everyone and everything dry before letting their bottom line take a hit.


Happy Monday everyone.


----------



## BrotherJ (Jan 28, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> This isn't quite accurate. I can understand how it appears this way. But that's just not what it really is.



I actually agree with this post POB - let me explain myself better; I'm a member of the younger generation (I guess millennial if we consider anyone born post 1980). I think baby boomers ****ed over the younger generation with crazy spending, entitlement programs, and unchecked healthcare/education costs. Moreover, dipshit neocons got into power (Bush era) and turned most people off from anything to do with conservative ideals because they got us bogged down in two retarded wars. 

That being said, I see a lot of younger people (including people my age) who have some pretty ****ed up political ideas on both sides of the aisle. Ex - one guy I grew up with was openly calling Obama a N***** on Facebook and another girl I know is so far up Lenin's ass it's insane. 

Either way, I agree with you about the younger people (myself included) getting ****ed over. I almost died about 10 years ago from an aneurysm and I've been reaping the benefits of medical debt since then.


----------



## PillarofBalance (Jan 28, 2019)

BrotherJ said:


> I actually agree with this post POB - let me explain myself better; I'm a member of the younger generation (I guess millennial if we consider anyone born post 1980). I think baby boomers ****ed over the younger generation with crazy spending, entitlement programs, and unchecked healthcare/education costs. Moreover, dipshit neocons got into power (Bush era) and turned most people off from anything to do with conservative ideals because they got us bogged down in two retarded wars.
> 
> That being said, I see a lot of younger people (including people my age) who have some pretty ****ed up political ideas on both sides of the aisle. Ex - one guy I grew up with was openly calling Obama a N***** on Facebook and another girl I know is so far up Lenin's ass it's insane.
> 
> Either way, I agree with you about the younger people (myself included) getting ****ed over. I almost died about 10 years ago from an aneurysm and I've been reaping the benefits of medical debt since then.



I will say, relatively speaking that yes there are some crazy notions out there. Not just politics. We have anti vax, flat Earth etc... 

Maybe reaching for the more extreme solutions is because what's been billed as middle of the road hasn't been working out for them?


----------



## gymrat827 (Jan 28, 2019)

BrotherJ said:


> I actually agree with this post POB - let me explain myself better; I'm a member of the younger generation (I guess millennial if we consider anyone born post 1980). I think baby boomers ****ed over the younger generation with crazy spending, entitlement programs, and unchecked healthcare/education costs. Moreover, dipshit neocons got into power (Bush era) and turned most people off from anything to do with conservative ideals because they got us bogged down in two retarded wars.
> 
> That being said, I see a lot of younger people (including people my age) who have some pretty ****ed up political ideas on both sides of the aisle. Ex - one guy I grew up with was openly calling Obama a N***** on Facebook and another girl I know is so far up Lenin's ass it's insane.
> 
> Either way, I agree with you about the younger people (myself included) getting ****ed over. I almost died about 10 years ago from an aneurysm and I've been reaping the benefits of medical debt since then.



Im not going to go into my health issues, but i spend 12-18k a year on medical fun.  The guys/gals younger than me do seem entitled, but again, their college is 100k when mine was 22.  If they had to find a job from 06-10 as a kid or had a degree you/they literally were competing with 35-55 yr old's in some cases.  (ask me how i know..??)

Every major industry has massively changed....Auto, banking, airline, real estate, retail, stock market, etc etc.  Yes they are entitled, but they are growing up in an entirely different US than 80% of us


The best thing of the shutdown ending is 800K people are now paid again.  

Senators, reps in the house, judges, the prez should all go without pay like the 85% of the federal employees when shutdowns occur.  They will last half the time, 35% if they did


----------



## DieYoungStrong (Jan 28, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> Bureaucracy is the problem not government. Massive corporations that somehow get a pass from anti-trust laws. Religious organizations that align their values with political parties and ideaology. Labor unions that are given special privileges that can crush small business owners. More government at the federal level and less and the local level where you actually can get a say.
> 
> If we aren't going to do absolute individual freedom, where there is no crime if there is no victim, then let's at least make sure kids are getting their vaccinations, and if a high school graduate wants to go to college, let him pay for it but at least make it a no interest loan for ****s sake.



Big fed Govt = Bureaucracy. All the problems we have are from the govt sticking its nose in places it doesn’t belong. Just my opinion. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that Jazz.


----------



## transcend2007 (Jan 28, 2019)

With every generation there are new challenges ... one of the main difference is the latest few generations complain a great deal more ... you never hear my generation or the preceding generations complaining about what the previous generation did or left for us .. because we were too busy working to improve it ... let's face some facts ... many millennials are just soft ... living at home until they are in their 30's ... because they cannot afford to keep the same lifestyle as their parents ... guess what when you move out in your 20's you are not going to live in your parents neighborhood ..

And, all the bitching about $100k college debt .. go to community college with a plan to graduated with a degree that actually launches a career ... so many college students now a days major in partying and basket weaving ... with no thought given to how much debt they are accumulating or how they're going to pay for it ... that is YOUR FAULT no one else's if you're in that position ... I went to community college and worked 40 hours a week and incurred no college debt then transitioned to a 4 year school with a scholarship and continued working ... where did anyone get the idea a college education was owed ... its lazy kids (and adults) with no plan .. blaming others for their own poor decisions ... there is a reason why the men who fought in WW2 were (and are still) called the Greatest generation ... because they did what was required without complaining ... winning a World War and then going onto creating the longest period of prosperity our country has ever experienced ... the current generations not so much at least so far ... and with all their bitching and still living at home with mommie in their 30's prolly will never ...

Lastly, health care ... we cannot continue to spend 80% of government health care dollars on people in the 80's and 90's ... my parents are in that age group and I want them here as long as possible .. but from a societal standpoint we must make some very hard decisions ... our health care system should be built support young (children) and productive adults who are more likely to contribute ... I say if you created wealth in your life time then spend whatever you want to prolonging your life ... but if not then when you get old and sick you're made comfortable but no extraordinary measures are taken from 75+ on ... this may sound harsh but there are only so many resources and they must be used far more wisely than currently ...


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## HollyWoodCole (Jan 28, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> Lastly, health care ... we cannot continue to spend 80% of government health care dollars on people in the 80's and 90's ... my parents are in that age group and I want them here as long as possible .. but from a societal standpoint we must make some very hard decisions ... our health care system should be built support young (children) and productive adults who are more likely to contribute ... I say if you created wealth in your life time then spend whatever you want to prolonging your life ... but if not then when you get old and sick you're made comfortable but no extraordinary measures are taken from 75+ on ... this may sound harsh but there are only so many resources and they must be used far more wisely than currently ...


There is a movie that comes to mind, however I cannot remember the title.  The premise of the movie was that you could only live to a certain age and were then executed as you were no longer considered to be of value to society.


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## transcend2007 (Jan 28, 2019)

HollyWoodCole said:


> There is a movie that comes to mind, however I cannot remember the title.  The premise of the movie was that you could only live to a certain age and were then executed as you were no longer considered to be of value to society.



Logan's Run ... but that age was 30 .. and I not recommending killing people who turn a certain age ... I am recommending that we do not spend our country into bankruptcy like we are now to extend a horrible quality of life for 6 months ... it really makes no sense.


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## jennerrator (Jan 28, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> extend a horrible quality of life for 6 months ... it really makes no sense.



I personally will take myself out when this time comes.........................I learned a hard lesson with my last Pit...just to keep him alive for me when he was suffering...never again!


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## BrotherJ (Jan 28, 2019)

jennerrator said:


> I personally will take myself out when this time comes.........................I learned a hard lesson with my last Pit...just to keep him alive for me when he was suffering...never again!



Ya, for real. I'm a real life therapist and want to see people live happy lives. HOWEVER, I've also seen people die shitty deaths, both personally and professionally. When I get to a certain age and find myself struggling to do certain things physically, I very, very much plan on taking care of that myself. I'll go pick a fight with a Grizzly or something but  don't plan on sticking around into the hospice stage.


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## jennerrator (Jan 28, 2019)

BrotherJ said:


> Ya, for real. I'm a real life therapist and want to see people live happy lives. HOWEVER, I've also seen people die shitty deaths, both personally and professionally. When I get to a certain age and find myself struggling to do certain things physically, I very, very much plan on taking care of that myself. I'll go pick a fight with a Grizzly or something but  don't plan on sticking around into the hospice stage.



Yep...my dad's the same...his deal is...

1. Go to prison - take myself out

2. Go to nursing home - take myself out


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## DieYoungStrong (Jan 29, 2019)

I will take myself out as soon as I can’t bang anymore. I don’t want to live in a world without pussy.


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## transcend2007 (Jan 29, 2019)

The issue is the system is set up to maintain life as long as possible regardless of overall cost or quality of life ... and while people comment they would take themselves out ... but people do not ... the will to live is incredibly strong ... you get old slowly over many decades ... few are in a hurry to exit ... meanwhile 80 and 90 somethings drain the system of hundreds of billions in health care costs that do little more than extend low quality of life for a brief period ...


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## Elivo (Jan 29, 2019)

transcend2007 said:


> The issue is the system is set up to maintain life as long as possible regardless of overall cost or quality of life ... and while people comment they would take themselves out ... but people do not ... the will to live is incredibly strong ... you get old slowly over many decades ... few are in a hurry to exit ... meanwhile 80 and 90 somethings drain the system of hundreds of billions in health care costs that do little more than extend low quality of life for a brief period ...



A lot of times is actually the family that keeps these people going. Even when the actual person has expressed a will to not have life prolonged. This is one thing I hate about health care and I’d like to see changed.

if a person has a do not resuscitate order the family can over ride it and keep them alive.

ive seen I don’t know how many 80-90+ patients kept alive on ventilators and had their chest pushed on with however many broken ribs cause the family went against their wishes.


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## jennerrator (Jan 29, 2019)

Elivo said:


> A lot of times is actually the family that keeps these people going. Even when the actual person has expressed a will to not have life prolonged. This is one thing I hate about health care and I’d like to see changed.
> 
> if a person has a do not resuscitate order the family can over ride it and keep them alive.
> 
> ive seen I don’t know how many 80-90+ patients kept alive on ventilators and had their chest pushed on with however many broken ribs cause the family went against their wishes.



It's legal here in Cali to say bye..bye when we want....so glad!


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## BigGameHunter (Jan 29, 2019)

jennerrator said:


> It's legal here in Cali to say bye..bye when we want....so glad!



Illegal in most states for you to do it yourself. If under a Docs care it’s different.  When my mom was on life support with mersa, among other things, the doc gave us the decision to stop treatment that he considered unethical to medically processed. 

Am I still viewing the govt shut down/millennial grievance thread???


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## BigSwolePump (Jan 29, 2019)

BigGameHunter said:


> Am I still viewing the govt shut down/millennial grievance thread???



LOL...I actually scrolled to the title to make sure of that very thing.


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## BigSwolePump (Jan 29, 2019)

Again, here are the idiots at fault for the shutdown....fuk washington


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## jennerrator (Jan 29, 2019)

BigGameHunter said:


> Illegal in most states for you to do it yourself. If under a Docs care it’s different.  When my mom was on life support with mersa, among other things, the doc gave us the decision to stop treatment that he considered unethical to medically processed.
> 
> Am I still viewing the govt shut down/millennial grievance thread???



Ok...stop treatment and then they suffer until their body gives out? Fuuuck that! Lol Something more interesting to discuss..


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## Bro Bundy (Jan 29, 2019)

I’m all for death by choice .. I was a dr kevorkian fan


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## Iron1 (Jan 29, 2019)

Bro Bundy said:


> I’m all for death by choice ..




Freedom of choice is the ultimate freedom, but destroying gov't property is against the law.


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