# Watch out for "fake" HRT clinics



## Send0 (Sep 25, 2021)

I have no idea how true it is... but all I can say it's worth people investigating this on their own _(beyond YouTube videos obviously)_.

Taking 300mg of testosterone and only getting 1000ng/dL... sure it's possible, but maybe your clinic is scamming you too.

If your clinic insists you have to get your testosterone from them, instead of a real pharmacy, then question them 100%!!


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## phooka (Sep 25, 2021)

Being relatively new to the whole TRT thing - I am getting mine from the online clinic.  However, I'm pretty sure it's working since my testosterone went from about 280 to over 1500 on just 160ml/week.  (results via LabCorp)


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## Send0 (Sep 25, 2021)

phooka said:


> Being relatively new to the whole TRT thing - I am getting mine from the online clinic.  However, I'm pretty sure it's working since my testosterone went from about 280 to over 1500 on just 160ml/week.  (results via LabCorp)


there's also a question if it's real pharma, or if it's UGL that the put in a fake pharma vial.

If you're good with that, then carry on... But if it potentially concerns you then you may want to look into whether they are associated with Florida alternative medicine or their sister companies.

Again I have no idea if any of this is true... but it never hurts to be vigilant and look into it either.

This was one reason I backed away from trying the HRT clinic route. I inherently don't trust them, considering how they are popping up on every street corner... becoming as common as seeing a Starbucks or McDonald's. 🤣


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## phooka (Sep 25, 2021)

Send0 said:


> But if it potentially concerns you then you may want to look into whether they are associated with Florida alternative medicine or their sister companies.



They don't appear to be, although they are based in Florida. The test-c they send me comes from a pharmacy in Texas.


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## FearThaGear (Sep 25, 2021)

I would never use an online clinic personally.

You can easily order your own blood work and monitor it yourself and use UGL testosterone

Also, even if your PCP won't prescribe testosterone, they still will order labs for you and monitor your health which would be the best case scenario even if they don't prescribe the testosterone itself.


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## phooka (Sep 25, 2021)

FearThaGear said:


> You can easily order your own blood work and monitor it yourself and use UGL testosterone


That's my eventual plan now I know this works well for me. The clinic pricing is too expensive, but that's how they make their money I suppose. 

Now I have a bit more of a clue, and I can run my own bloodwork that I'm comfortable understanding, I'll be going it on my own. I just need to find a reliable quality source. My PCP is an idiot and there's no chance he'd be willing to assist. If you could only hear him counseling me on how I'm supposed to lift weights.  He looks like a Weeble and has likely never lifted a weight in his life.  In fact, I'm pretty sure given my experience with doctors around here that it's just not worth the effort to try finding one to work with me. There is a doctor shortage where I live so even getting an initial appointment is usually a couple of months' wait.


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## Jonjon (Sep 25, 2021)

I don’t understand why they would underdose the test. I mean, in the whole scheme of things how much could they be making by cutting the dose with test? Isn’t it cheap?

Plus, you’d want your clients feeling great and seeing improvements to keep them coming back wouldn’t you?


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## Send0 (Sep 25, 2021)

Jonjon said:


> I don’t understand why they would underdose the test. I mean, in the whole scheme of things how much could they be making by cutting the dose with test? Isn’t it cheap?
> 
> Plus, you’d want your clients feeling great and seeing improvements to keep them coming back wouldn’t you?


I agree, and that's the part of the video that made me raise an eyebrow.

Then again I wonder the same thing about UGL who underdose their own test, given how cheap it is to make, yet it still happens.

At this point nothing surprises me. Just thought it'd be a good reminder for people to practice skepticism and caution in general.


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## Jonjon (Sep 25, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I agree, and that's the part of the video that made me raise an eyebrow.
> 
> Then again I wonder the same thing about UGL who underdose their own test, given how cheap it is to make, yet it still happens.
> 
> At this point nothing surprises me. Just thought it'd be a good reminder for people to practice skepticism and caution in general.




Absolutely… the clinics are a dirty business for the most part


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## flenser (Sep 25, 2021)

I started TRT in 2012 using the online clinic promoted by steroid.com. I don't know if they still exist, but they used a compounding lab in Florida. The first vial I received was labeled 238mg/ml. I was too new to understand how suspicious that was. I still have  no regrets. They set me up with everything I needed, and answered all my stupid questions. Blood work at six weeks was right where it was supposed to be.


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## Steeeve (Sep 27, 2021)

phooka said:


> They don't appear to be, although they are based in Florida. The test-c they send me comes from a pharmacy in Texas.


trt nation? not a bad price ($200) per vial with supplies included.


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## Iron1 (Sep 28, 2021)

flenser said:


> The first vial I received was labeled 238mg/ml. I was too new to understand how suspicious that was.


Why is that suspicious?


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## flenser (Sep 28, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> Why is that suspicious?


It doesn't seem suspicious to you? I figure an FDA approved compounding lab (I never checked if they were approved) would be able to produce standard concentrations. I was supposed to draw 50mg at a time from that, or 0.21ml.


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## Send0 (Sep 28, 2021)

flenser said:


> It doesn't seem suspicious to you? I figure an FDA approved compounding lab (I never checked if they were approved) would be able to produce standard concentrations. I was supposed to draw 50mg at a time from that, or 0.21ml.


It would raise an eyebrow for me. At a minimum, it sure does make it hard for a patient to draw the correct dosage on a consistent basis, and that seems like a poor practice in and of itself.

That's just my .02


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## Iron1 (Sep 28, 2021)

flenser said:


> It doesn't seem suspicious to you? I figure an FDA approved compounding lab (I never checked if they were approved) would be able to produce standard concentrations. I was supposed to draw 50mg at a time from that, or 0.21ml.


I like going down these rabbit holes of information like trying to find out what the FDA has to say about compounding pharmacies. (I'm super fun at parties, btw.) As always there's a metric ton of information and case specific exceptions but it appears that compounding pharmacies can be exempt from a a lot of the usual FDA shenanigans depending on how they're setup.

Noteworthy points:
Compounded drugs are not FDA approved








						Compounding Laws and Policies
					

Compounded drugs are not FDA-approved.




					www.fda.gov
				




It also appears that FDA guidelines also have provisions for compounders to be exempt from their good manufacturing and labeling procedures. 









						Provisions that Apply to Human Drug Compounding
					

Learn key similarities and differences in sections 503A and 503B of the FD&C Act.




					www.fda.gov
				




All in all, there's a lot of reading but it does hint that there are provisional exceptions to manufacturing and labeling requirements that could explain a legitimate product having non-standard dosing. I'm certainly not exerting that I'm any sort of authority in the matter, I've no idea beyond what I've read but I thought it interesting enough to share.


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## Send0 (Sep 28, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> I like going down these rabbit holes of information like trying to find out what the FDA has to say about compounding pharmacies. (I'm super fun at parties, btw.) As always there's a metric ton of information and case specific exceptions but it appears that compounding pharmacies can be exempt from a a lot of the usual FDA shenanigans depending on how they're setup.
> 
> Noteworthy points:
> Compounded drugs are not FDA approved
> ...


Sir, I like your level of nerdiness and willingness to travel down the internet rat holes! This is interesting info.


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## lfod14 (Sep 28, 2021)

phooka said:


> They don't appear to be, although they are based in Florida. The test-c they send me comes from a pharmacy in Texas.


Empower?


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## j2048b (Sep 28, 2021)

All mine (still have a lot from my clinic from years ago, wonder if its still any good and usable? Circa early 2000's) Were all great....never had to deal with such bs, and a lot of these that they talk about on that video all stemmed from one clinic, and then some went sour....still a few  on fb and still the same ol whiny shit....u owe me money, u were horrible when u worked here etc....

1 major point of contention is the amount the clinics buy and then upsell, they make a killing off a $35 bottle of test, $125 and ^^^^ per vial.....complete crazziness


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## flenser (Sep 28, 2021)

Iron1 said:


> I like going down these rabbit holes of information like trying to find out what the FDA has to say about compounding pharmacies. (I'm super fun at parties, btw.) As always there's a metric ton of information and case specific exceptions but it appears that compounding pharmacies can be exempt from a a lot of the usual FDA shenanigans depending on how they're setup.
> 
> Noteworthy points:
> Compounded drugs are not FDA approved
> ...


The FDA also publishes a list of all the approved compounding labs in the country. It's a pretty short list, too short to account for all the supposed licensed compounding labs around.


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 29, 2021)

Yes Y’all, there is a lot of money in this business as we all know. Think about how much each one of you has spent over the years. In my many moon cycles I have def paid for a new Fat Boy. There is shady shit going on. When it is going on right in front of us is when we sometimes do not notice it… 
My Test comes from CVS and I am not sure of the Lable on it. I know there are plenty of clinics out there that take your bloods and hand you a vial. They have there way of working outside of the law legally.. this is how I see it
I don’t care if you get your test from 
BigVinnyBoomBot’s in the back of the Sangwich shop or you get it from cvs. If you take 200mg a week steady for a 8 weeks,  then 5 days later from your last shot you go and get bloods. I don’t care who you are you could have a natural test level of zero. If you don’t post somewhere up towards 850+ then there is something wrong. I am on 300mg. If I go and get bloods 5 days after my last shot I would be up near 1700+. I drop my dose to 100mg a week for two or three weeks and it brings me in @ 1000 roughly. So we gotta be sure what we are putting in our bodies. 
Now on a different note. But same topic as the OP. Every fall when I get ready to smash it I have to have fn heart palpitations around my cycle. Only because it is hard for me to bang a 1/2gram of test or more and work this around my dr blood draws. So I stay with my trt and use test p to supplement. It works but it plays havoc on the hormones. The other day I just so happened to pass a wellness center not to far from my house so I took the name and got the number. When I did a google search it turns out that it is a Nurse Practitioner who owns the place. So I called the number and boom dude picks up. We start talking and I was very honest with him with what I do. In the midst of his baby crying in his arms in which he apologized for because he was home and his office calls go to him. He told me come in sit or we can do a televisit and he would have no problem prescribing deca/test even some others he said we could talk about. He told me he uses a compounding pharmacy. He also told me gh was no problem as well as cj and igf. He said it’s all what I would want to pay.. or spend. medical marijuana and all that jive too. That dosnt interest me. Soooo I told him I would be in touch.
The test prices are not cheap. 
Test 125$
Deca 160$
Gh he said around 350 a kit.
Didn’t ask about anything else.
I don’t know what prices go for with out of pocket things like this because my trt cost me 5$ And my “others” are very reasonably priced. 
To good to be true. Let me know.


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## j2048b (Sep 29, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Yes Y’all, there is a lot of money in this business as we all know. Think about how much each one of you has spent over the years. In my many moon cycles I have def paid for a new Fat Boy. There is shady shit going on. When it is going on right in front of us is when we sometimes do not notice it…
> My Test comes from CVS and I am not sure of the Lable on it. I know there are plenty of clinics out there that take your bloods and hand you a vial. They have there way of working outside of the law legally.. this is how I see it
> I don’t care if you get your test from
> BigVinnyBoomBot’s in the back of the Sangwich shop or you get it from cvs. If you take 200mg a week steady for a 8 weeks,  then 5 days later from your last shot you go and get bloods. I don’t care who you are you could have a natural test level of zero. If you don’t post somewhere up towards 850+ then there is something wrong. I am on 300mg. If I go and get bloods 5 days after my last shot I would be up near 1700+. I drop my dose to 100mg a week for two or three weeks and it brings me in @ 1000 roughly. So we gotta be sure what we are putting in our bodies.
> ...


What kind of fake gh are u getting zomactin?? For 350....? A see and have seen a lot trying to peddle zomactin, low end gh....its crazy


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 29, 2021)

j2048b said:


> What kind of fake gh are u getting zomactin?? For 350....? A see and have seen a lot trying to peddle zomactin, low end gh....its crazy


As I stated. I don’t know what prices for this stuff go for because I never needed and still don’t need to go this route.Didn’t ask a name. But I was shooting the shit with the dude not promoting his products… I know nothing further about the guy but what he told me. I wouldn’t get test, I am not opposed to maybe some real pharma grade deca.  And the gh. Shit I can beat that price and have it be legit well vetted gh.


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## Be_A_Hero (Sep 29, 2021)

Send0 said:


> there's also a question if it's real pharma, or if it's UGL that the put in a fake pharma vial.
> 
> If you're good with that, then carry on... But if it potentially concerns you then you may want to look into whether they are associated with Florida alternative medicine or their sister companies.
> 
> ...


The 1st one I went to is inside a travel center smdh. They even got my labs and insurance wrong. I chalked the 100 I lost for a consultation and cut my losses. Doc said the most he’d give is 100-200 mgs a week. I’m talking online with a new place now


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## MrBafner (Sep 29, 2021)

I have contacted 3 different ones here in Aus and all 3 just promoted patches and gels. I have neve used either .. but for the price they wanted, I never will.


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## SFGiants (Sep 29, 2021)

phooka said:


> Being relatively new to the whole TRT thing - I am getting mine from the online clinic.  However, I'm pretty sure it's working since my testosterone went from about 280 to *over 1500 on just 160ml/week*.  (results via LabCorp)



I call bullshit!


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 29, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> I call bullshit!


That’s some way overdosed olive oil…


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## flenser (Sep 29, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> That’s some way overdosed olive oil…


I dunno, my total was 1100 on 100mg/wk from the stuff from my HRT clinic.


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## Yano (Sep 29, 2021)

j2048b said:


> All mine (still have a lot from my clinic from years ago, wonder if its still any good and usable? Circa early 2000's) Were all great....never had to deal with such bs, and a lot of these that they talk about on that video all stemmed from one clinic, and then some went sour....still a few  on fb and still the same ol whiny shit....u owe me money, u were horrible when u worked here etc....
> 
> 1 major point of contention is the amount the clinics buy and then upsell, they make a killing off a $35 bottle of test, $125 and ^^^^ per vial.....complete crazziness


I'm not a clinician or anything but as far as I know it's only good for around 36 months. Any multiuse , the left overs should be tossed after a month. I would be really nervous with some thing that old.


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## Send0 (Sep 29, 2021)

Yano said:


> I'm not a clinician or anything but as far as I know it's only good for around 36 months. Any multiuse , the left overs should be tossed after a month. I would be really nervous with some thing that old.


I've used gear that was 9 years old. I'm not kidding and still have the vials. It worked just fine... but this isn't the same as me advising others do the same, just saying that it was still good due to the way it was stored


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## Yano (Sep 29, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I've used gear that was 9 years old. I'm not kidding and still have the vials. It worked just fine... but this isn't the same as me advising others do the same, just saying that it was still good due to the way it was stored


Wow , I never would of had the balls to try that. Right on man.


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## Send0 (Sep 29, 2021)

Yano said:


> Wow , I never would of had the balls to try that. Right on man.


I questioned it myself. I started with a very small amount just to see how my body would react, and if I'd get inflammation or an abscess. I started injecting full dosage once I saw nothing bad happened.

I don't use those vials anymore... but only because I wanted a different carrier oil and no other reason than that.


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## phooka (Sep 29, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> I call bullshit!



I can't imagine LabCorp would lie about a test result just for funsies.


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 29, 2021)

flenser said:


> I dunno, my total was 1100 on 100mg/wk from the stuff from my HRT clinic.


That’s awesome. How long did you wait from shot you blood work..
I am not a expert I am goibg


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 29, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> That’s awesome. How long did you wait from shot you blood work..
> I am not a expert I am goibg


200mg test will raise your normal blood level roughly 3-400 % for the first 3-5 days. After that it drops relatively quick.. I looked this up this morning. So I guess if you start with a baseline of 300 and you go with the low end of 300% that is 900 if I am not mistaken. If it’s 400% then it would be 1200. I am no mathematical wizard. So if 100mg raises it let’s say 300% then you do the math..


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## flenser (Sep 29, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> That’s awesome. How long did you wait from shot you blood work..
> I am not a expert I am goibg


Six weeks.
Or do you mean days after the shot? That would be 2 to 3 days after a 50mg dose on twice a week injections. Having it go up by 1000 per 100mg is actually pretty normal from what I remember when I paid attention to that stuff.


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## j2048b (Sep 29, 2021)

Yano said:


> I'm not a clinician or anything but as far as I know it's only good for around 36 months. Any multiuse , the left overs should be tossed after a month. I would be really nervous with some thing that old.


Im pretty sure my test is ok to use, i mean id trust a pharmacy way before an ugl, but even pharm grade test has been recalled for contamination, so theres that, but i think mine will be ok, ima try a vial soon,

if....if.....i dont......ever ever post....again, its cause i died....🤣😘👻☠️👼


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 29, 2021)

flenser said:


> Six weeks.
> Or do you mean days after the shot? That would be 2 to 3 days after a 50mg dose on twice a week injections. Having it go up by 1000 per 100mg is actually pretty normal from what I remember when I paid attention to that stuff.


Weeks. 6-7 to get real good stable bloods. And then my dr always says 6-7 days so to get a good reading.. i have waited ten and when I was on 200mg a week my test level would drop to high 4’a/5’s. everyone does it different . I know things can vary. If you can keep 1000 on a 100mg faithfully then that’s awesome.


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 29, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I've used gear that was 9 years old. I'm not kidding and still have the vials. It worked just fine... but this isn't the same as me advising others do the same, just saying that it was still good due to the way it was stored


Fuck it Bro. You did the right think. Heat that bitch up and give yourself a tiny bit. As long as it was kosher when it was brewed you should be ok. I thought when it sits way long like that the hormone could break down but that’s all. It’s not like you took a few draws out of it and left it for 9 years. It was capped and steril when it went in the vial. Of course yes things get contaminated and you could have ended up with sepsis. I call that the price we pay. Fuck I used a brand new bottle one time I got from a UG and it had a tiny speck in it. I was already drawing out of it a few times when I noticed it. I didn’t have any problems. I just made sure every time I drew out of the vial I wasn’t close to it. I didn’t finish the thing when it got way down. I dont advise it but I was a juiced out raging  lunatic. 
🤙🤙🤙😂😂😂😂😂🤙


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## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

phooka said:


> That's my eventual plan now I know this works well for me. The clinic pricing is too expensive, but that's how they make their money I suppose.
> 
> Now I have a bit more of a clue, and I can run my own bloodwork that I'm comfortable understanding, I'll be going it on my own. I just need to find a reliable quality source. My PCP is an idiot and there's no chance he'd be willing to assist. If you could only hear him counseling me on how I'm supposed to lift weights.  He looks like a Weeble and has likely never lifted a weight in his life.  In fact, I'm pretty sure given my experience with doctors around here that it's just not worth the effort to try finding one to work with me. There is a doctor shortage where I live so even getting an initial appointment is usually a couple of months' wait.


If you order labs off of privatemedlabs.com they do work with labcorp and quest use discount code RHINO for 15% off year round


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## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> I call bullshit!





flenser said:


> I dunno, my total was 1100 on 100mg/wk from the stuff from my HRT clinic.


All this depends on his dosage and how long after the shot he pulled bloodwork. 


Badleroybrown said:


> 200mg test will raise your normal blood level roughly 3-400 % for the first 3-5 days. After that it drops relatively quick.. I looked this up this morning. So I guess if you start with a baseline of 300 and you go with the low end of 300% that is 900 if I am not mistaken. If it’s 400% then it would be 1200. I am no mathematical wizard. So if 100mg raises it let’s say 300% then you do the math..


This is mostly untrue there is no percentage you can go on. I will explain 

The hypothalamus is located in your brain and tells your pituitary gland how much test you need. The gland then sends message to your nuts or, ovaries if you are a female to start up the ol test production. 

Also some amount is made in your adrenals glands. Very little though. 

Now…. Your body is all fucked up from all that blasting you been doing and pizza we be eating our body has said “fuck you” and will only produce enough to keep it going. 

When you inject exogenous hormones your brain will see this and cut off all communication to your body that produces test. So your baseline after week 2 mean absolutely nothing. 

I score 1300-1400 on 275mg a week pinning 125mg every 3 days and I pull blood work 3 days after injection before my next injection. So 250mg going on your therory puts me at 1,100% above my 130 baseline.  If I pulled it at peak 14-20 hours after injection it would probably be 2,000 % above my natty levels. 

Once you introduce exogenous testosterone your natty levels play no part in any calculation of what it should or shouldn’t be….. because, your other body functions take over liver kidney thyroid everything. Because your body has an excess amount of hormone it isn’t used to. 

Everyone metabolizes the hormone differently and this is why everyone should get baselines and run some trt to compare.


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 30, 2021)

You are talking 275 mg a week. So normally you would be up that high. 
And yes 130 above base line. Maybe I did the math wrong. I am not a mathematician. If someone has a baseline of 300ng And it raises 300% of if a shit isn’t that 900ng. I am just using these numbers as reference.  I only got this info off of a med website. I looked it up because this topic got me curious. Please correct me if I am wrong and I will shut up. I know when to hold them and when to fold them.


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## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> You are talking 275 mg a week. So normally you would be up that high.
> And yes 130 above base line. Maybe I did the math wrong. I am not a mathematician. If someone has a baseline of 300ng And it raises 300% of if a shit isn’t that 900ng. I am just using these numbers as reference.  I only got this info off of a med website. I looked it up because this topic got me curious. Please correct me if I am wrong and I will shut up. I know when to hold them and when to fold them.


No need to shut up in a discussion bro. I was just saying going off of the percentages 300-400% 200mg would put me at 520ng because my baseline is 130’s and I am well over 1200ng on 200mg a week.  But I always pin every 3 days regardless the dose of cyp. So I always pull bloodwork 3 days after pin. Did the article you read explains the timeframe? 

Unless you stated the timeframe the article said we are missing a exponent for the subject.


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## Badleroybrown (Sep 30, 2021)

***** *So this is what I found. We are saying the same things that are in this article. I am not being as scientific as this article or you are. I just put it into a different light.. I am glad you brought this up again because I had to double check. So it makes sense if someone has a baseline of 300ng and they inject 200mg of testosterone there levels would jump to roughly 1000-1200 by the end of 4-5 day. That’s roughly 3-400%. Maybe they are not going off the baseline of your natural test and the baseline of the mg of test injected. I don’t know. All I know is 280 is good 500 is better and 1000mg is the best. Get it in 🤙🤙😂*

Pharmacodynamics
Testosterone cypionate presents the same properties than its analog testosterone with the advantage that this molecule has a longer release rate and half-life.6Administration of ester derivatives of testosterone as testosterone cypionate generates an increase in serum testosterone to levels reaching 400% from the baseline within 24 hours of administration. These androgen levels remain elevated for 3-5 days after initial administration.3 The continuous variation in plasma testosterone after intramuscular administration of testosterone cypionate results in fluctuations in mood and libido as well as some local inflammation.4
Mechanism of action
The effects of testosterone in humans and other vertebrates occur by way of two main mechanisms: by activation of the androgen receptor (directly or as DHT), and by conversion to estradiol and activation of certain estrogen receptors. Free testosterone (T) is transported into the cytoplasm of target tissue cells, where it can bind to the androgen receptor, or can be reduced to 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) by the cytoplasmic enzyme 5α-reductase. DHT binds to the same androgen receptor even more strongly than T, so that its androgenic potency is about 2.5 times that of T. The T-receptor or DHT-receptor complex undergoes a structural change that allows it to move into the cell nucleus and bind directly to specific nucleotide sequences of the chromosomal DNA. The areas of binding are called hormone response elements (HREs), and influence transcriptional activity of certain genes, producing the androgen effects.2


TARGETACTIONSORGANISMAAndrogen receptoragonistHumansUEstrogen receptor alphaNot AvailableHumansUMineralocorticoid receptorNot AvailableHumans
Absorption
Testosterone cypionate is an esterified anabolic which allows it to present a greater degree of solubility in fats and thus, the release and absorption occur in a slow rate compare to homologous molecules.6 Intramuscular administration of 200 mg of testosterone cypionate produced a mean supratherapeutic Cmax of 1122 ng/dl which occurred 4-5 days post-injection. After the fifth day, the levels of testosterone cypionate in plasma went down reaching an average of 400 ng/dl.4


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## flenser (Sep 30, 2021)

I always went by Scally's rule of thumb. He's talking about peak levels which I guess are different depending on how the weekly dose is spread out. I usually get within 10% of his predicted 10X rule on two weekly injections. 



> A good estimate I have found to work very well clinically is to multiply the dose (TC/TE) by 10. Of course there will be some variation around the level, but this has worked out very well for PCT. For example, TC/TE 600 mg per week provides a serum testosterone of ~6,000 ng/dL. In the real world, the levels might be a a high as 8,000 ng/dL!!!


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## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> ***** *So this is what I found. We are saying the same things that are in this article. I am not being as scientific as this article or you are. I just put it into a different light.. I am glad you brought this up again because I had to double check. So it makes sense if someone has a baseline of 300ng and they inject 200mg of testosterone there levels would jump to roughly 1000-1200 by the end of 4-5 day. That’s roughly 3-400%. Maybe they are not going off the baseline of your natural test and the baseline of the mg of test injected. I don’t know. All I know is 280 is good 500 is better and 1000mg is the best. Get it in 🤙🤙😂*
> 
> Pharmacodynamics
> Testosterone cypionate presents the same properties than its analog testosterone with the advantage that this molecule has a longer release rate and half-life.6Administration of ester derivatives of testosterone as testosterone cypionate generates an increase in serum testosterone to levels reaching 400% from the baseline within 24 hours of administration. These androgen levels remain elevated for 3-5 days after initial administration.3 The continuous variation in plasma testosterone after intramuscular administration of testosterone cypionate results in fluctuations in mood and libido as well as some local inflammation.4
> ...


Ok yeah now I see. Most boards I have been at go by the “bro code” of 5 times the weekly amount . So if you inject 200 mg you would like to see 1000ng 5-6 days after injection. 

I fall in-line 5 days after pin on 275 mg a week pinning every 3 days of 125mg so the article is correct. But I don’t understand why they bring up baseline numbers as they don’t matter once injection occurs


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## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

flenser said:


> I always went by Scally's rule of thumb. He's talking about peak levels which I guess are different depending on how the weekly dose is spread out. I usually get within 10% of his predicted 10X rule on two weekly injections.


The only thing I didn’t like about that thread or I could have missed it was the blood pull time after injection.


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

flenser said:


> I always went by Scally's rule of thumb. He's talking about peak levels which I guess are different depending on how the weekly dose is spread out. I usually get within 10% of his predicted 10X rule on two weekly injections.


The only thing I didn’t like about that thread or I could have missed it was the blood pull time after injection


----------



## flenser (Sep 30, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> The only thing I didn’t like about that thread or I could have missed it was the blood pull time after injection.


It was one of several threads on blood work around that time. There was a chart on peaks and troughs, etc. But I didn't see it in my search. Your 5X rule sounds right, except since I'm injecting twice a week, there's never 5 days between injections.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

Not to be a wet blanket, but 500mg test weekly will put me at ~4000 total test with blood drawn 3.5 days after last injection, and no injection taken prior to having blood pulled

My baseline is ~252 total test (prior to trt). Using 140mg of test (TRT) puts me at ~1200 total test, with blood drawn following the same protocol described previously. Following the earlier described logic, 140mg of test should put me closer to 800-900 total test. This is ~30% difference, and would be considered clinically significant deviation.

I have a naturally low SHBG, it hovers around 11 with or without TRT. I believe this is one contributing factor to why I don't fit the mold. Low SHBG sounds great, but I assure you that it's almost as bad as high SHBG. In some ways it's more annoying; it's easy to reduce estradiol, but difficult to raise it when you need to.

Similarly, but in the reverse direction, there are documented cases of men who respond very poorly to exogenous Testosterone, and require.much more test to get into a therapeutic range.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

My point in my post above isnt to say anyone is right or wrong, but rather to highlight that it's much more complex than using a formula to use dosage to estimate peak testosterone. There are a number of factors at play here.

I think someone else earlier said it correctly.. I believe they said something along the lines of "different people may metabolize exogenous hormones differently". On top of that, you have factors like carrier oil, injection method, etc that can all play a factor in the results shown in lab work.

It's a complicated topic for certain. If we could all use a formula then dialing in our dosage would be easy. I wish it was this easy.


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

Nobody is getting over 1500ng on 160mg a week of test c only.

People have to cycle for them numbers.


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> Ok yeah now I see. Most boards I have been at go by the “bro code” of 5 times the weekly amount . So if you inject 200 mg you would like to see 1000ng 5-6 days after injection.
> 
> I fall in-line 5 days after pin on 275 mg a week pinning every 3 days of 125mg so the article is correct. But I don’t understand why they bring up baseline numbers as they don’t matter once injection occurs



All that number stuff is bullshit, we don't all process the same.

At 150mg a week tested 7 days later I can be at 700ng, you at 800ng and another guy at 600ng.

I will stand by nobody is getting over 1500ng or even close on 160mg a week. Maybe he meant 560mg a week!

Go by your bloodwork not some chart or just words form another, bloodwork speaks the truth.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> All that number stuff is bullshit, we don't all process the same.
> 
> At 150mg a week tested 7 days later I can be at 700ng, you at 800ng and another guy at 600ng.
> 
> ...


Not 1500, but here's 1260ng/dL on 140mg/week. 1500 is much higher, but if we assume 1260/140 =9, then we can use this to assume 160 * 9 = 1440ng/dL. Not too far off.

Yes, I'm aware I can't prove to anyone my dosage. So everyone believe what they want, but here's a screenshot of testosterone from labs taken on August 19th. Blood was drawn 3 days after last injection.

I think it's possible... I also am the opposite of most and don't think operating at the top of range is necessarily healthy. When I finish this blast I plan to lower my dose to 120mg/week.

As you said, we don't all process the same.


----------



## flenser (Sep 30, 2021)

Send0 said:


> My point in my post above isnt to say anyone is right or wrong, but rather to highlight that it's much more complex than using a formula to use dosage to estimate peak testosterone. There are a number of factors at play here.
> 
> I think someone else earlier said it correctly.. I believe they said something along the lines of "different people may metabolize exogenous hormones differently". On top of that, you have factors like carrier oil, injection method, etc that can all play a factor in the results shown in lab work.
> 
> It's a complicated topic for certain. If we could all use a formula then dialing in our dosage would be easy. I wish it was this easy.


It's really not that complex. Ignoring illness, the relationship between dose and serum level is very nearly linear when taken at the same time after the injection. The 10X rule is for peak levels. It varies some for different individuals, but remains pretty consistent for the same individual at different doses. In effect, once you know what YOUR serum level is relative to a given dose and sample time, you can predict accurately what it will be at other doses at the same sample time.

So when someone posts bloodwork, the dose is subjective unless you know what that person's serum level is at a known dose.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

flenser said:


> It's really not that complex. Ignoring illness, the relationship between dose and serum level is very nearly linear when taken at the same time after the injection. The 10X rule is for peak levels. It varies some for different individuals, but remains pretty consistent for the same individual at different doses. In effect, once you know what YOUR serum level is relative to a given dose and sample time, you can predict accurately what it will be at other doses at the same sample time.
> 
> So when someone posts bloodwork, the dose is subjective unless you know what that person's serum level is at a known dose.


I just posted my bloodwork, timing, and dose. I don't fit the mold, and I know lots of others who don't as well. Some test extremely low, and others test much higher like me.

To each their own.


----------



## flenser (Sep 30, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I just posted my bloodwork, timing, and dose. I don't fit the mold, and I know lots of others who don't as well. Some test extremely low, and others test much higher like me.
> 
> To each their own.


What part doesn't fit the mold? I only see one reading.


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> All that number stuff is bullshit, we don't all process the same.
> 
> At 150mg a week tested 7 days later I can be at 700ng, you at 800ng and another guy at 600ng.
> 
> ...


If you read my previous post I explained everyone metabolizes hormones differently. But if you pin 160mg of test and pull bloodwork 15-20 hrs later you will pull over 1500ng almost everyone will


----------



## phooka (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> All that number stuff is bullshit, we don't all process the same.
> 
> At 150mg a week tested 7 days later I can be at 700ng, you at 800ng and another guy at 600ng.
> 
> ...



I did. I have no reason to lie about it. I haven't shilled for anyone; I haven't even named the TRT clinic because I generally won't promote anyone - that has a way of biting you later.  So, believe whatever you want regardless the facts; that seems to be a theme here in this country anyway.  Ciao.


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I just posted my bloodwork, timing, and dose. I don't fit the mold, and I know lots of others who don't as well. Some test extremely low, and others test much higher like me.
> 
> To each their own.


You sound like a high responder. I am also a high responder. Sounds like you have genetically gifted receptor sites


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> You sound like a high responder. I am also a high responder. Sounds like you have genetically gifted receptor sites


Hah, if only i could have also been genetically gifted at hypertrophy response or at least not being prone to joint injuries. Life is cruel 🤣


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Not 1500, but here's 1260ng/dL on 140mg/week. 1500 is much higher, but if we assume 1260/140 =9, then we can use this to assume 160 * 9 = 1440ng/dL. Not too far off.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware I can't prove to anyone my dosage. So everyone believe what they want, but here's a screenshot of testosterone from labs taken on August 19th. Blood was drawn 3 days after last injection.
> 
> ...



I am going by protocol, drawing blood at the end not beginning or middle, we need to know our blood at the last day not 1st, 2nd or 3rd.

If you know where you are 7 days or longer later depending if you inject once a week or every 2 weeks.

I draw consistently about 700ng day 7 on 140mg, I and we all should want to know where we stand at the lowest not highest IMO.

I don't want to be  guy that after x amount of days it drops rapidly ending up not knowing if I get too low.

No doctor or clinic that I have known does it differently.

Can you imagine how low they'd have people testing them too soon. 

We are talking TRT not cycle, injections on a cycle are done 2 times a week or more.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> I am going by protocol, drawing blood at the end not beginning or middle, we need to know our blood at the last day not 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
> 
> If you know where you are 7 days or longer later depending if you inject once a week or every 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't inject once every 7 days. So 3 - 3.5 days out is *MY* low. I also would not consider 140mg per week a cycle.

We can also flip this on its head. While I may have higher troughs..  someone doing a bolus shot of 140mg once a week is going to have much larger peak than I will ever have. This matters as well.

six of one, half a dozen of the other... but I'm just an idiot on the internet, so who cares


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

Also, this thread started as PSA about potential shill HRT clinics. How did it turn into a pissing match about it being impossible to test 1500ng/dL on 160mg of test.

I don't get how a benign thread gets derailed like this 🤣


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Yeah, I don't inject once every 7 days. So 3 - 3.5 days out is *MY* low. I also would not consider 140mg per week a cycle.
> 
> We can also flip this on its head. While I may have higher troughs..  someone doing a bolus shot of 140mg once a week is going to have much larger peak than I will ever have. This matters as well.
> 
> six of one, half a dozen of the other... but I'm just an idiot on the internet, so who cares



You have to think half life because by testing sooner as yourself with teach people the wrong way method of true testing, can pin anyway you want but to test IMO it's by the half life.

Your way of pinning is just fine but can lead to falseness to other not knowing much at all when it comes to testing.

Nobody testing by protocol is getting 1500ng on 160mg period!


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> I am going by protocol, drawing blood at the end not beginning or middle, we need to know our blood at the last day not 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
> 
> If you know where you are 7 days or longer later depending if you inject once a week or every 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Even on trt I would recomend a 3 day pin schedule. So when u inject once a week you peak and fall peak and fall causing other issues within your body. Pinning even 75mg every 3 days reduces the peak and fall tremendously and is less harsh in the body when trt’ing. Also keeps your test levels and other hormones stable during this. 

By all mean do what you think is best for you. But trt can be administered eod every 3 days or once a week. But when pulling bloodwork make sure it’s the furthest from last injection.  

Also drawing blood after week 2 while blasting is good to do so you can adjust if needed or you can find out if it’s underdosed. 

When I blasted years ago 20 week cycle I would pull bloodwork 5 times and adjust if needed


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

Send0 said:


> Also, this thread started as PSA about potential shill HRT clinics. How did it turn into a pissing match about it being impossible to test 1500ng/dL on 160mg of test.
> 
> I don't get how a benign thread gets derailed like this 🤣



Because we are supposed to educate!


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> You have to think half life because by testing sooner as yourself with teach people the wrong way method of true testing, can pin anyway you want but to test IMO it's by the half life.
> 
> Your way of pinning is just fine but can lead to falseness to other not knowing much at all when it comes to testing.
> 
> Nobody testing by protocol is getting 1500ng on 160mg period!


7 days after last injection NEVER I agree. But you won’t get it either pinning every 3 days 65mg either pulling bloodwork 3 days after injection


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

You all have to keep in mind this board gets full of new people not so educated as us and because so I keep it simple as I can for them.

We can blow heads up as mine got many years back lol.

We are much more advanced then most and can manipulate ourselves as they can't nor understand how we can.

Not trying to argue at all!


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> You have to think half life because by testing sooner as yourself with teach people the wrong way method of true testing, can pin anyway you want but to test IMO it's by the half life.
> 
> Your way of pinning is just fine but can lead to falseness to other not knowing much at all when it comes to testing.
> 
> Nobody testing by protocol is getting 1500ng on 160mg period!


I suppose I can agree that I would not get that number upon end of 1st half life, if I was only pinning once a week.

However I'd say the correct method of testing is dependent on your pinning schedule. This is where you and I are coming to disagreement.

My thinking is that bloods should be pulled the day of the following injection, but before actually taking that injection. If a person pins once a week, then sure that would be day 7. If someone pins once every 3.5, days then that would be at the end of day 3.5. In either case you are pulling the trough, because TRT is dose dependent and pinning frequency is individual preference... And that preference determines individual trough.

In summary, I'm saying trough is always before the morning of next injection.. regardless of pinning frequency, and I have a hard time understanding why that would ever be wrong.

Taking the idea of 1500ng/dL out of the equation, can you tell me if I'm crazy, and why? This isnt a jab, it's a legit question.


----------



## Send0 (Sep 30, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> You all have to keep in mind this board gets full of new people not so educated as us and because so I keep it simple as I can for them.
> 
> We can blow heads up as mine got many years back lol.
> 
> ...


That's a fair point. I often forget that new people don't understand the basics. Let's keep this conversation going for them then. It could become a good reference in the future


----------



## phooka (Sep 30, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I suppose I can agree that I would not get that number upon end of 1st half life, if I was only pinning once a week.


I got my >1500 after 8 weeks on TRT at 160mg/week twice a week. My last pin before bloodwork was on a Sunday morning with bloodwork on Wednesday morning.   I'm either an exception to the _experts _here or my vials aren't dosed correctly.

Anyway, I think this horse has been beaten enough. I'm out of this thread.


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

phooka said:


> Being relatively new to the whole TRT thing - I am getting mine from the online clinic.  However, I'm pretty sure it's working since my testosterone went from about 280 to over 1500 on just 160ml/week.  (results via LabCorp)


You say once a week here and is why I responded.


----------



## SFGiants (Sep 30, 2021)

phooka said:


> I got my >1500 after 8 weeks on TRT at 160mg/week twice a week. My last pin before bloodwork was on a Sunday morning with bloodwork on Wednesday morning.   I'm either an exception to the _experts _here or my vials aren't dosed correctly.
> 
> Anyway, I think this horse has been beaten enough. I'm out of this thread.


Here you say twice a week with 3 days after injection, this makes sense and why we have to speak up because the 1st post is misleading!


----------



## Badleroybrown (Sep 30, 2021)

Great info andneveryon


SFGiants said:


> I am going by protocol, drawing blood at the end not beginning or middle, we need to know our blood at the last day not 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
> 
> If you know where you are 7 days or longer later depending if you inject once a week or every 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Thank You. This speaks to what I have been saying. After my last shot of 300mg I wait as long as 7-10 days depending when I can get out for work and my numbers are alway high but not past the threshold of 1100. This is my dr magic number unless he know something else is going on… you do not want to be at peak blood levels when you get tested. If you test 700 7 days out, imagine what it would be at day 3. Prob 1000+. This is what throws it all out of wack. 
I had bloods done a few weeks ago. I did my last shot and waited 8 days to get tested. I have appt with my dr tom. I will get results and let everyone know. And this is 300mg shot on day 1. He said. It to fudge it cause he want to see what’s going on .


----------



## phooka (Oct 1, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> You say once a week here and is why I responded.


Okay let me be as clear as I can.  My TRT Clinic prescribed me 160mg/week.  They said to pin on Sunday and Wednesday at 0.4ml/shot.  That is 0.8ml per week, from a 200mg/ml vial for 160mg/ml.  I'm sorry if I was unclear with my previous statements.


----------



## Send0 (Oct 1, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Great info andneveryon
> 
> Thank You. This speaks to what I have been saying. After my last shot of 300mg I wait as long as 7-10 days depending when I can get out for work and my numbers are alway high but not past the threshold of 1100. This is my dr magic number unless he know something else is going on… you do not want to be at peak blood levels when you get tested. If you test 700 7 days out, imagine what it would be at day 3. Prob 1000+. This is what throws it all out of wack.
> I had bloods done a few weeks ago. I did my last shot and waited 8 days to get tested. I have appt with my dr tom. I will get results and let everyone know. And this is 300mg shot on day 1. He said. It to fudge it cause he want to see what’s going on .


It's all relative to injection frequency. If you are doing 1 large bolus shot per week then you will of course have much higher peaks than someone who injects 2x per week. On the other hand, someone who injects 2x per week will only have moderately higher troughs than someone who takes a single bolus shot.

All that matters in the end is that you are waiting the maximum amount of time prior to the next injection to draw blood for lab work... regardless of injection frequency.


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 1, 2021)

Ok so I said last night that I had dr visit today. I shot a week 300mg  8 days after shot 730ng


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## j2048b (Oct 1, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Ok so I said last night that I had dr visit today. I shot a week 300mg  8 days after shot 730ng


Damn on 300 mlg, u only hit 730 total 8 days later, crazy


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## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 1, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Ok so I said last night that I had dr visit today. I shot a week 300mg  8 days after shot 730ng


Was that pharma test and how long you been on the 300mg week protocol


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 2, 2021)

Pharma yes CVS cost me 10$
Shit been on this for a while.


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Pharma yes CVS cost me 10$
> Shit been on this for a while.


Have you ever tried pinning every 3 days. Say pin 130mg every 3 days?  I used to pin once a week my trt 250mg when I switched to 110mg e3d man my gains and whole body feeling got so much better


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 2, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> Have you ever tried pinning every 3 days. Say pin 130mg every 3 days?  I used to pin once a week my trt 250mg when I switched to 110mg e3d man my gains and whole body feeling got so much better


I never have but after seeing you guys are rolling like this I may give it a go.. 
slin pin backloaded. Do you put the whole amount and cap it when you have half left. This is would be a first for me.


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> I never have but after seeing you guys are rolling like this I may give it a go..
> slin pin backloaded. Do you put the whole amount and cap it when you have half left. This is would be a first for me.


Easiest way to do it pin .5 ml or 125mg every 3 days. I never reuse needles even my slin pins.


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 2, 2021)

I am gonna have to give this a go. I have bloods again in 8 weeks. Sun when I do my shot I will hit .75. I don’t know how hard that will be to get accurately. Twice a week will give me 300. 
Sun/wed or sun/Thurs. let me know


----------



## Send0 (Oct 2, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> Easiest way to do it pin .5 ml or 125mg every 3 days. I never reuse needles even my slin pins.


On the other side of the coin, I do re-use my slin pins up to 3 injections and have never had an issue. After this the needle isn't sharp enough for my liking.

I do this out of convenience more than anything.


----------



## Badleroybrown (Oct 2, 2021)

Send0 said:


> On the other side of the coin, I do re-use my slin pins up to 3 injections and have never had an issue. After this the needle isn't sharp enough for my liking.
> 
> I do this out of convenience more than anything.


I thought that it would be ok as well. Sometimes with gh I will fill the barrel and use it till it’s empty. I have also re used slin pins often. If I think they have been sitting to long I will take a little alcohol and run it thru it to clean it. Never had a problem. Besides I need a new supplier. Every place I have tried online will take my order and then when it comes to processing it they I’ll not send. They all tell me the can’t send a box to my only 10.. my pharmacist that use to work in my town would get me boxes of 100 for 49$. I am down to my last 20 and he does not work there anymore. It’s a bitch going to cvs for a bag of ten slin pins. I use to go so much that when I went in she would just put them in a bag and ring me up. 
If someone can give me a heads up this would be awesome.


----------



## Send0 (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> I thought that it would be ok as well. Sometimes with gh I will fill the barrel and use it till it’s empty. I have also re used slin pins often. If I think they have been sitting to long I will take a little alcohol and run it thru it to clean it. Never had a problem. Besides I need a new supplier. Every place I have tried online will take my order and then when it comes to processing it they I’ll not send. They all tell me the can’t send a box to my only 10.. my pharmacist that use to work in my town would get me boxes of 100 for 49$. I am down to my last 20 and he does not work there anymore. It’s a bitch going to cvs for a bag of ten slin pins. I use to go so much that when I went in she would just put them in a bag and ring me up.
> If someone can give me a heads up this would be awesome.


What? That's crazy. I just get mine off Amazon. Box of 100 for like $15. 

I used to load separate barrels for all my injections, but it was such a hassle for me. I'm such a lazy SOB. 😂

Despite the low cost, I still re-use them. I'm that lazy. If rather load a slin pin for the week and call it done.😂


----------



## SFGiants (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> I thought that it would be ok as well. Sometimes with gh I will fill the barrel and use it till it’s empty. I have also re used slin pins often. If I think they have been sitting to long I will take a little alcohol and run it thru it to clean it. Never had a problem. Besides I need a new supplier. Every place I have tried online will take my order and then when it comes to processing it they I’ll not send. They all tell me the can’t send a box to my only 10.. my pharmacist that use to work in my town would get me boxes of 100 for 49$. I am down to my last 20 and he does not work there anymore. It’s a bitch going to cvs for a bag of ten slin pins. I use to go so much that when I went in she would just put them in a bag and ring me up.
> If someone can give me a heads up this would be awesome.







__





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----------



## Send0 (Oct 2, 2021)

SFGiants said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Last time I used gpz was in 2012. But their shipping is fast, and prices are cheap. I'd recommend them as well.


----------



## SFGiants (Oct 2, 2021)

I buy 1cc luer lock syringes then get the pins separate, I get the syringes on Amazon if GPZ don't have them.


----------



## SFGiants (Oct 2, 2021)

Here also https://www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com/


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> I am gonna have to give this a go. I have bloods again in 8 weeks. Sun when I do my shot I will hit .75. I don’t know how hard that will be to get accurately. Twice a week will give me 300.
> Sun/wed or sun/Thurs. let me know


To be more accurate do every 3 days not 2 times a week. 

If you do .75ml and it’s 200mg per ml  that will put you at 350mg per week total. 

If you do .5ml and it’s 200mg per ml that will put you at 233mg per week

If you do .7ml and it’s 200mg per ml that will put u at 326mg a week. 

I’m no giant by any means but I have not ran over 300 mg of test in the past 6 years and just recently past 3 weeks or so upped it to 500mg a week. Out of all the bloodwork I have done in the past the 3 day pin schedule has managed my levels better than anything else. 

Now, everyone metabolizes hormones differently but I mean it won’t hurt to try for a couple months or so see how u like it. You can always hit me up if you have questions I’m always on these forums reading.


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

Send0 said:


> On the other side of the coin, I do re-use my slin pins up to 3 injections and have never had an issue. After this the needle isn't sharp enough for my liking.
> 
> I do this out of convenience more than anything.


Your balls out weigh mine!!! I seen an injection due to pinning and it wasn’t the gear my homie reused needles for his gear now it was IM injections….. and I keep a stock pile of pins to open up a Walgreens if needed. Never know when these fucks will outlaw them as well


----------



## Send0 (Oct 2, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> Your balls out weigh mine!!! I seen an injection due to pinning and it wasn’t the gear my homie reused needles for his gear now it was IM injections….. and I keep a stock pile of pins to open up a Walgreens if needed. Never know when these fucks will outlaw them as well


I never claimed to not do stupid shit 😂. For me it's not a price thing, it's a laziness thing.

Now I'm not so stupid as to stick a used pin in a sterile vial. I'll just preload a slin with 2-3 shots and do it that way.

I keep a stock pile too. I have about 3 boxes of 100 count slin pins, and a giant 500ct box of standard barrels with 27g pins, and other big boxes of 20g needles to use for drawing. 

I also got a 100ct box of 31g luer lock pins, but I never used them because in underestimated how "bendy" they would be, and they kind of scare me for some reason 😂


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

Send0 said:


> What? That's crazy. I just get mine off Amazon. Box of 100 for like $15.
> 
> I used to load separate barrels for all my injections, but it was such a hassle for me. I'm such a lazy SOB. 😂
> 
> Despite the low cost, I still re-use them. I'm that lazy. If rather load a slin pin for the week and call it done.😂


Yeah I started buying my easy touch pins off Amazon cheap and fast


----------



## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

Send0 said:


> I never claimed to not do stupid shit 😂. For me it's not a price thing, it's a laziness thing.
> 
> Now I'm not so stupid as to stick a used pin in a sterile vial. I'll just preload a slin with 2-3 shots and do it that way.
> 
> ...


I pinned one time with a retractable pin once but didn’t know it was…. My brother thought the damn needle snapped off in my ass. Had me scared that’s when I first started gear long time ago


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## Badleroybrown (Oct 2, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> Yeah I started buying my easy touch pins off Amazon cheap and fast


I have never ever thought to check Amazon. Holy fuck. Gonna right now.


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## Badleroybrown (Oct 2, 2021)

Omg it’s the mother load. 
Spank you very much!!!


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## Send0 (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Omg it’s the mother load.
> Spank you very much!!!


You can even get sterile vials and all kinds of other goodies on Amazon now. So convenient if you are looking to get stuff shipped out fast, regardless of price.

I have a stash of syringe filters and other things from Amazon when I was in a bind and in a hurry.


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## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> Omg it’s the mother load.
> Spank you very much!!!


Amazon is slowly taking over the world! Even when I get low on alcohol pads…. In bathroom about to pin shit only got 10 pads left….. order pads then pin. 2 days later pack of alchohol pads at the door!! Best feeling in the world.


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## Blusoul24 (Oct 2, 2021)

Badleroybrown said:


> I thought that it would be ok as well. Sometimes with gh I will fill the barrel and use it till it’s empty. I have also re used slin pins often. If I think they have been sitting to long I will take a little alcohol and run it thru it to clean it. Never had a problem. Besides I need a new supplier. Every place I have tried online will take my order and then when it comes to processing it they I’ll not send. They all tell me the can’t send a box to my only 10.. my pharmacist that use to work in my town would get me boxes of 100 for 49$. I am down to my last 20 and he does not work there anymore. It’s a bitch going to cvs for a bag of ten slin pins. I use to go so much that when I went in she would just put them in a bag and ring me up.
> If someone can give me a heads up this would be awesome.



Another good place to get pins, bac water etc

https://www.bacteriostaticwater.com/


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## j2048b (Oct 2, 2021)

Mighty-Mouse said:


> I pinned one time with a retractable pin once but didn’t know it was…. My brother thought the damn needle snapped off in my ass. Had me scared that’s when I first started gear long time ago


Man i wanted to get some of those retractable pins, never could find any, almost bought one of those military grade med guns that basically push that through with air pressure but it was costly and wasnt sure of the damage it would do


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## Crom (Oct 2, 2021)

Then there's people like me on 200mg a week pharma only pushing a 700 total. LOL!


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## Mighty-Mouse (Oct 2, 2021)

j2048b said:


> Man i wanted to get some of those retractable pins, never could find any, almost bought one of those military grade med guns that basically push that through with air pressure but it was costly and wasnt sure of the damage it would do


Ever since the retractable issue …. I’m thinking excel and BD are good enough for me


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## Send0 (Oct 2, 2021)

Crom said:


> Then there's people like me on 200mg a week pharma only pushing a 700 total. LOL!


Yup, you're one of the guys I was thinking about when I was saying there are plenty of us who don't fit within a formula used to estimate total test based on dosage. Where as I'm the exact opposite, a high responder who can hit 1200+ on 140mg. 

I'm glad to see your name pop up man. Come around more often and smack us around... the real Crom would with his earth god hands 😁


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