# Bloodwork at 3 months 50mgs Testosterone Cypionate every 3.5 Days



## John Ziegler (Sep 27, 2016)

Total T = 368 ng/dL
PSA = 0.77 ng/mL
Estradiol = 31.1 pg/mL

View attachment 3290

View attachment 3291


Any suggestions on higher dosing are welcome.


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## Bro Bundy (Sep 27, 2016)

u need a bigger dose


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## John Ziegler (Sep 27, 2016)

Bro Bundy said:


> for real trt u need atleast 125 mg a week



Was thinking about going 75mg every 3.5 ?

The trt doc said they start them out at 140 every 7 days for starters.


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## DF (Sep 27, 2016)

Looks like you could double up on your dose.  When were the bloods taken?


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## John Ziegler (Sep 27, 2016)

DF said:


> Looks like you could double up on your dose.  When were the bloods taken?



Yesterday when I woke up around 2pm that is my morning what will double that get my range to.

I'd like to keep that E under 60.0 as well without using an AI


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## ToolSteel (Sep 27, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> Yesterday when I woke up around 2pm that is my morning what will double that get my range to.
> 
> I'd like to keep that E under 60.0 as well without using an AI



Well, roughly double. Granted there's other variables but it'd be close. 

I would at least double it. Roll another month or so and test again.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 27, 2016)

ToolSteel said:


> Well, roughly double. Granted there's other variables but it'd be close.
> 
> I would at least double it. Roll another month or so and test again.



How about that E, would it double too ?

I've been doing more cardio but could definately step it up if that means I can run double the dose and stay under 60.0


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## IHI (Sep 27, 2016)

When was your last shot? Before you had bloods

My doc started me at 100mg/once a week. 548 low, 784 high when they check ya 1 day before scheduled shot and then 2 days after shot to fund you low/high

You using cyp or eth? Cyp has 12 day half life so that's why most docs scribe cyp so patient only has to pin once a week.

Wouldn't bother 3.5 days pins until your going for beast, 100-200/wk, just do 1 shot and enjoy life


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## John Ziegler (Sep 27, 2016)

IHI said:


> When was your last shot?



The last shot before blood work was Thursday night 50mgs Test C.


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## IHI (Sep 27, 2016)

Well, you foughd your trough, and I believe since your pinning such a small amount, that is y reading is so low too.

Run a normal doc scribed pin schedule, 100-140mg/wk for 4-6 weeks, THEN do bloods, bet it's normal after that.

It'd be like going to the bar and sipping on a shot of whiskey over a 4hr period, yeah your taking it in, but not enough to get anything worthwhile for your effort


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## John Ziegler (Sep 27, 2016)

IHI said:


> Well, you foughd your trough, and I believe since your pinning such a small amount, that is y reading is so low too.
> 
> Run a normal doc scribed pin schedule, 100-140mg/wk for 4-6 weeks, THEN do bloods, bet it's normal after that.
> 
> It'd be like going to the bar and sipping on a shot of whiskey over a 4hr period, yeah your taking it in, but not enough to get anything worthwhile for your effort



I was doing 50mgs every 3.5 days though after 3 months that level should be pretty steady.


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## IHI (Sep 27, 2016)

I believe it is steady, but factor in the half life and it's almost a losing battle. I tried what your doing, results same as yours. Went back to 100mg once a week, and everything righted itself in the world.

Both family doc and endo actually thought I was still doing 100mg/wk 1 time, while I was actually splitting like your doing, and after my bloods cane back very low, just like yours, endo upped me to 120mg/wk.

I just went back to the 100mg/wk shot, he had me checked 4 weeks later prior/post scheduled shot day, low and behold, back to where I had been before I experiemented.


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## IHI (Sep 27, 2016)

That's why I referenced it to a shot of whiskey.
If I gave you 1/2 a bottle and you drank it all at once (like the guys pinning 500-600mg/wk) your going to get the full effect so to speak.

But if you took that same half bottle, and did a few shots a night, you will eventually use up that same 1/2 bottle of whiskey, but won't be drunk.

So these tiny doses that are split, sure your taking 100mg/wk total, but your never elevating it enough to be worth while because of the half life, that 50mg is already fading away by the next day, and the next day, and the next day and a half, so you take a tiny bit more, and it's already fading away by the next day, and the next day, and the next day and a half.

You are quite literally running on an uphill escalator that is just a fraction of a bit faster than your best effort.

Pin normally like a typical trt regimon, retest in 4 weeks and I bet everything is world's different, day to day feeling and lab numbers. Been there, tried that, and it's pointless to put it bluntly.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 27, 2016)

Your levels are lower bc you got close to a trough reading. Take bloods a day after your pin and they'll be higher.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 27, 2016)

I definetly want to up the dose though what would 75 or 100mgs every 3.5 days get me ?

I like pinning twice a week for whatever reason I cant explain.


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## PillarofBalance (Sep 27, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> I was doing 50mgs every 3.5 days though after 3 months that level should be pretty steady.



Steadily inadequate. He is talking about peak plasma levels. With a 3.5 day shot peak reaches x. With a 7 day shot peak is x plus some.


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## MrRippedZilla (Sep 27, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> I definetly want to up the dose though what would 75 or 100mgs every 3.5 days get me ?
> 
> I like pinning twice a week for whatever reason I cant explain.



Z, you've been around long enough to know damn well that the information contained in that bloodwork, along with the time it was taken, is not good enough to act as any sort of feedback data for you to make future decisions from. 
You've also been around long enough to know that NO ONE can tell you what ____mg is going to result in. 

Save the cash and get a proper panel done, at the right time, and then adjust your protocol - don't do this in the middle BS to justify what you "want" to do. 
I apologize if my response comes off as harsh but you've been around long enough to know this shit and, honestly, it does make me question exactly what you've been doing on the boards for the last few years.


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## IHI (Sep 27, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Your levels are lower bc you got close to a trough reading. Take bloods a day after your pin and they'll be higher.



But I bet they aren't much higher...I said in another of his threads this is a silly regimon, now the lab work, weather prior/post those few drops of oil he is injecting twice a week, it's going to always be low/low end of the spectrum. And I wouldn't be so confident, but since I played this tune once just for my own experiement, I know how it ends. 

Have no idea why he thinks doing a single 100mg shot a week for a typically endo prescribed starting point is such a hard or scarey thing to do. Estrogen won't sky rocket, less  physical trauma every week to muscles, and alot better numbers for living.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 28, 2016)

At anyrate guys thanks for the responses.

A once a week injection sounds logical and worth a shot.


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## GuerillaKilla (Sep 28, 2016)

Am I blind, or is there no free test reading?


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## John Ziegler (Sep 28, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Am I blind, or is there no free test reading?



I got it done at a trt clinic running an ad 19 dollar consultation I asked them to add the estradiol test costed 20 they did the testosterone test in house the estradoil went to labcore.


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## snake (Sep 28, 2016)

How do you feel Z? TT would be a little low for my liking but that's me. I bet good money if you bumped it up just a little, you're E2 won't get to high.


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## GuerillaKilla (Sep 28, 2016)

My total test on TRT 200mgs a week Pfizer cyp is 605. Free test 168.


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## IHI (Sep 28, 2016)

We'll all process.differently, what oil (manufacturer) will also vary since 200mg will vary, esspecilly if you compare ugl vs pharm stuff (hence why we see some guys doing massive amounts and rather tame blood work). So no way we can just say Zig, do this and expect this, obviously; but this splitting of an already low, true trt dose (as far as a beginning baseline to find how the person's body reacts) has to stop lol.

This is a classic case of overly cautious, and it's working negatively for him obviously. I'm betting eventually he'll find with whatever oil he's using it'll end up between 100-200mg/wk, 1 shot a week for best results. If he goes 300mg+/week, then I suspect using an eth. And splitting dose will work better, 
But as far as this thread goes, he has advice on a medically proven protocol that millions follow to get a solid baseline. Whether he runs it is still upto him


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## Dex (Sep 28, 2016)

You should do 150mg or 175mg and see.  I was doing two shots a week at 100mg each and my test was 1100+ on shot day, before injection. 175mg is about as low as I can go or I start feeling like crap again. I will see what those numbers get me in a few weeks.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 28, 2016)

Im running the watson 200mg per ml.



snake said:


> How do you feel Z? TT would be a little low for my liking but that's me. I bet good money if you bumped it up just a little, you're E2 won't get to high.



Feeling way better that I did before starting the trt.

Ironically right when I turned 46 in may I started feeling the symptoms described as low t.

Then after I started taking the test I felt back to normal even slightly better a lot less ups and downs mood wise better sleeping this and that.


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## GuerillaKilla (Sep 28, 2016)

Total test means less to me than free test. The difference between the two can also indicate levels of shbg. 

Zeig, gotta stop messing around man. You have two choices. Go completely AWOL and just do what you want and stop all this dicking around or B)  Get proper bloods done and find a decent doc and go from there. Stop playing this guessing game/looking for approval to **** off already. 

Your labs are incomplete at this time, imho. 

You're 46. Time to get in the game and be serious about yourself. 

Fwiw, I am a nobody and I'm pulling for you. Please stop asking random people on the internet how to handle the particulars of your TRT when that can only be determined by your bloods and a doc, if you want it to be legit.


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## GuerillaKilla (Sep 28, 2016)

Also, is anyone else here a huge fan of fit chics with B cup tits in a thin shirt with no bra? Holy shit man, those are some of my favorite titties.


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## NbleSavage (Sep 28, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Also, is anyone else here a huge fan of fit chics with B cup tits in a thin shirt with no bra? Holy shit man, those are some of my favorite titties.



The Underboob is strong with this one.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 28, 2016)

IHI said:


> But I bet they aren't much higher...I said in another of his threads this is a silly regimon, now the lab work, weather prior/post those few drops of oil he is injecting twice a week, it's going to always be low/low end of the spectrum. And I wouldn't be so confident, but since I played this tune once just for my own experiement, I know how it ends.
> 
> Have no idea why he thinks doing a single 100mg shot a week for a typically endo prescribed starting point is such a hard or scarey thing to do. Estrogen won't sky rocket, less  physical trauma every week to muscles, and alot better numbers for living.



Agreed it won't be much higher but the point of TRT is to make one asymptomatic and if that can be done with "lower-ish" levels then there's no need to go higher. Not saying it's the case here just speaking generally n


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 28, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Total test means less to me than free test. The difference between the two can also indicate levels of shbg.
> 
> Zeig, gotta stop messing around man. You have two choices. Go completely AWOL and just do what you want and stop all this dicking around or B)  Get proper bloods done and find a decent doc and go from there. Stop playing this guessing game/looking for approval to **** off already.
> 
> ...



Free test is a worthless measure in many cases. There are many different assays and methods to calculate it but the wide variance also means little standardization. You've got to check the assay/method used, make sure it's been validated, make sure it's the same one used every time, etc for it to have even a slight benefit.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Sep 28, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Also, is anyone else here a huge fan of fit chics with B cup tits in a thin shirt with no bra? Holy shit man, those are some of my favorite titties.



No, I'm a fan of thick Latina women with huge asses. The boobie size is irrelevant if ass size is sufficient


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## trodizzle (Sep 28, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> My total test on TRT 200mgs a week Pfizer cyp is 605. Free test 168.



My TRT program (which I think is pretty darn standard, the Chisler program) is also 200mgs per week. 100mg on Monday AM, 100mg on Thursday PM. 

I don't think the 1 shot per week is good, but I'm on Test C not Test E.

I don't think 100mg total per week will be much of a boon.


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## stonetag (Sep 28, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Also, is anyone else here a huge fan of fit chics with B cup tits in a thin shirt with no bra? Holy shit man, those are some of my favorite titties.



Why yes, yes I am!


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## snake (Sep 28, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> Im running the watson 200mg per ml.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The feeling is where TRT is at. If you feel good, maybe just a bump up would do you good. Glad to hear you're feeling well.


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## IHI (Sep 28, 2016)

trodizzle said:


> My TRT program (which I think is pretty darn standard, the Chisler program) is also 200mgs per week. 100mg on Monday AM, 100mg on Thursday PM.
> 
> I don't think the 1 shot per week is good, but I'm on Test C not Test E.
> 
> I don't think 100mg total per week will be much of a boon.



All going to depend on oil and person. When I started my legit trt, after the build up of 100mg/wk set in, it was a literal day and night, life altering difference for me, but being at 185 and then 210 to start, how could it not make a difference. 

I made the mistake of telling endo last yr I tried a few months at 200mg/wk and got the disappointed dad look, shaking of head even. He asked me some questions about any strength gains, how I felt, and this was same oil from pharmacey. I personally felt little to no difference state of we'll being wise with the double up.

Few guys at work and I have been doing 200mg/cyp a week as our new standard, and since I have many years to look back and compare to of 100mg /wk, I can honestly say mentally I feel no different. Strength isn't crazy, but I feel fine, typical stats at doc are all good, so I just run it that way now.

But like my endo told me first visit when we discussed that bullshit bellgraph chart, he has some patients that feel great at 210, and other who don't come oUT of their funk until they're near the high end of the chart, because we're all different.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 28, 2016)

GuerillaKilla said:


> Total test means less to me than free test. The difference between the two can also indicate levels of shbg.
> 
> Zeig, gotta stop messing around man. You have two choices. Go completely AWOL and just do what you want and stop all this dicking around or B)  Get proper bloods done and find a decent doc and go from there. Stop playing this guessing game/looking for approval to **** off already.
> 
> ...



It might seem to you like I am messing around but honestly I am not.

I got a quick blood work done that costed me 40 bucks testosterone/estradoil.

Whether I got it done on the right time on the day this and that is something thing I didn't take into consideration.

My main concern with that test was to see what my estradiol was looking like, whether or not it was at a dangerously high level.

Asking the board for advise imo is a lot better than asking my doctor.

Here is the script my doctor wrote me and had me on for the past over a year, I am just now starting to look into a new doctor as this one has discontinued my script.

It is what it is, at least he hooked me up with a script and have been getting a steady supply of pharmaceutical grade test, anastrozol, & cyancobalamin.

View attachment 3293


In case anyone cant read it it says take 1mg anastrozol 3 times a week inject 100mgs Test C once every other week.

That is why I am trusting the boards advise over my doctors.


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## MrRippedZilla (Sep 28, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> It might seem to you like I am messing around but honestly I am not.
> 
> I got a quick blood work done that costed me 40 bucks testosterone/estradoil.
> 
> ...



That doesn't explain why you chose the cheap BW option that leaves you with an incomplete, and relatively meaningless picture. GK is right, you need to stop ****ing around and invest in your health because no one else is going to. 

Are you are that the E2 number, unless it was done via sensitive essay, could be totally inaccurate?
Are you aware that TT alone is a meaningless measurement that can be disturbed by abnormal steroid binding patterns (SHBG, etc)?
Are you aware that ECLIA is bullshit for most hormonal tests and LC-MSMS is what you should be looking for? 
You say that you didn't take this stuff, the timing of the test, etc into consideration and yet you've been a board member for how long? 
Didn't you claim to be a long time follower of Mega's posts who I know for a fact has covered these protocols endlessly?

The board, or even the greatest doc's in the world, cannot be helpful to you if you don't provide us with some solid data to give advice on. That's how this works.


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## GuerillaKilla (Sep 28, 2016)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Free test is a worthless measure in many cases. There are many different assays and methods to calculate it but the wide variance also means little standardization. You've got to check the assay/method used, make sure it's been validated, make sure it's the same one used every time, etc for it to have even a slight benefit.



I don't appreciate your pompous posts. The tests were all performed regularly, and all were done by C section. I do believe you are correct in standardization of the flux capacitor being an issue for most people, however I have been using the HDMI method of blood extrapolation for years with this doc. I did request a variance for tests that were administered after Labor Day, and just to get that done you had to contact the European Fecal standard and measurements institute in Zurich. Pain in the ass but I got it all done, certified and validated. 

Dick.


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## John Ziegler (Sep 28, 2016)

MrRippedZilla said:


> That doesn't explain why you chose the cheap BW option that leaves you with an incomplete, and relatively meaningless picture. GK is right, you need to stop ****ing around and invest your in health because no one else is going to.
> 
> Are you are that the E2 number, unless it was done via sensitive essay, could be totally inaccurate?
> Are you aware that TT alone is a meaningless measurement that can be disturbed by abnormal steroid binding patterns (SHBG, etc)?
> ...



Duly noted, and next time I have a couple hundred extra bucks I will get the proper tests done at the appropriate time.

As a matter of fact I pm'd Mega my results at the same time I posted this thread and have gone over what needs to be done.


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## Maijah (Sep 28, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> Duly noted, and next time I have a couple hundred extra bucks I will get the proper tests done at the appropriate time.



Z the full panel is around $70, personally I think you should run 200 mgs a wk and see where that puts you. If you wanna run a real cycle, pin 750 mgs a week for a few months and enjoy the gains


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## Maijah (Sep 28, 2016)

Zeigler said:


> Duly noted, and next time I have a couple hundred extra bucks I will get the proper tests done at the appropriate time.



Z the full panel is around $70, personally I think you should run 200 mgs a wk and see where that puts you. If you wanna run a real cycle, pin 750 mgs a week for a few months and enjoy the gains


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## John Ziegler (Sep 28, 2016)

Maijah said:


> Z the full panel is around $70, personally I think you should run 200 mgs a wk and see where that puts you. If you wanna run a real cycle, pin 750 mgs a week for a few months and enjoy the gains



I cant find any of those for 70 here in austin


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