# Frontloading a cycle



## G-Man (Nov 23, 2012)

Is frontloading a test cyp/e cycle effective? Like doing 1000mg first injection and then 500mg/week afterwards.  Does it allow the test to kick in any faster or is it just a waste?


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## DF (Nov 23, 2012)

I'd rather do a kick start with an oral or short ester oil like test p.


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## Capt'n Ron (Nov 23, 2012)

In my breif experience frontloading is effective and makes good sense analytically.  A good kickstart with either and oral or fast acting injectable like test p or TNE will also bring good results. One final thing to consider is transitioning to a short or no ester compound at the end of a cycle to decrease the wait time before starting PCT. Rather than post a link I am going to copy and paste a post I came across that helped me grasp the concept.

I wanted to post some information on frontloading as it is something which is seen as an advanced technique but rather I would see that it is very easy and calling it advanced means that you just need to learn more. A lot of the information gathered was exposed to me by Bill Roberts. The purpose of frontloading is to get to the dose you want to metabolize quicker. Waiting 3-5 weeks for the half-lives to build is tedious and unnecessary. PCT with dosages as 40/40/20/20 is not needed. If you want to metabolize 40 mg/day on week one then adjust the amounts so you do. Manipulate the dosage according to the half-life so you metabolize the amount you desire. This is important with Clomid as it is typically used just for two weeks and by that time it will just have reached the level you want.


The following chart measures how much of Testosterone Enthantate you metabolize in Week 1 of a 500mg/week cycle. This was taken from a steroid calculator and the numbers include a 5% waste factor and the numbers may be off by a little but the big picture is the focus.

Day 1: Inject 250 mg of Testosterone Enthantate Metabolize 26 mg
Day 2: Metabolize 23 mg
Day 3: Metabolize 21 mg
Day 4: Inject 250 mg of Test Enthantate Metabolize 44 mg
Day 5: Metabolize 39 mg 
Day 6: Metabolize 35mg
Day 7: Metabolize 31 mg

For Week 1 you metabolized only 219 mg of Test E when your goal is 500.

The following is the amount metabolize week 1 when frontloading:
Day 1: Inject 600mgs Test Enthantate Metabolize 62 mg
Day 2: Metabolize 55 mg
Day 3: Metabolize 49 mg
Day 4: Inject 250 mgs Test Enthantate Metabolize 70 mg
Day 5: Metabolize 62 mg
Day 6: Metabolize 55 mg
Day 7: Metabolize 49 mg

For Week 1 when frontloading you will metabolize 402 mg of Test E when your goal is 500. Much better in my opinion.

The Formula

To establish the amount you should inject/ingest on the first day of frontloading you can use a the following formula to calculate the value. IT IS ONLY THE FIRST DAY YOU INJECT THIS AMOUNT. After that you follow your regular injection schedule.

Weekly amount/7xHalf-life in days + regular inject amount = Frontload

For measuring SERMs/AIs this formula is easier to use

Daily amount x half-life + regular dose = Frontload

Example, I am going to do 12 weeks of 500mgs Test E/week, planning on injecting 250 mg Monday and Thursday. How much should I frontload? Using the formula I plug in my values.

500/7 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

71 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

357 + 250 = Frontload

607 = Frontload

Now to get the help get the exact amount of 607 I recommend diluting 1 ml of 250mg/ml Test by adding 7 ml cottonseed oil so you now have a solution which is 31mg/ml and grab your insulin needle and measure 23units(0,23ml) add this volume to your 600 mg of test and you now have your dose measured(607mg). Just kidding you can just round to 600 or whatever number is easier for you.

To assist in your usage of the formula I will include some half-lives. Note, there is a slight variation of half-lives depending on the source. The fact that it is measured in days and not hours grants a +-12 hour variation which isn't too accurate either.

Testosterone Enthantate: 5 days
Testosterone Cypionate: 5 days(The difference between Test E and Test C is rather trivial and this is where the aforementioned -+12hour difference comes into play).
Decanoate(Deca): 6 days (I thought it was a little higher but most medical literature state 6 days)
Boldenone Undecylenate: 14 days

Tamoxifen Citrate(Nolvadex): 5 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
Clomiphene citrate(Clomid): 5 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
Anastrozole (Arimidex): 2 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
Letrozole (Letro, Femara): 2 days You ingest, DO NOT INJECT
hCG: 33hours to 48 hours depending on intramuscular or subcutaneous injection

The latter 3 might not need to be frontloaded but I felt the need to post them anyway.

Also I wanted to incorporate a cheat sheet for the most common ones and those who don't want to read through all this wall of text and learn how to do it. Going to list the Compound and Weekly dosage you wish to do and then the amount you should inject assuming an equal amount is injected twice a week.

Test E/C: 500 mg/week 607 mg on the first day only.
Test E/C: 600 mg/week 678 mg on the first day only.
Test E/C: 750 mg/week 910 mg on the first day only.
Test E/C: 1000 mg/week 1214 mg on the first day only.

Boldenone(Equipoise):400mgs/week 885 mg on the first day only
Boldenone(Equipoise):500mgs/week 1107 mg on the first day only
Boldenone(Equipoise):600mgs/week 1328 mg on the first day only
Boldenone(Equipoise):750mgs/week 1660 mg on the first day only

Tamoxifen Citrate(Nolvadex): 20 mg/day 120 mg on the first day only You ingest, DO NOT INJECT

Clomiphene citrate(Clomid): 50 mg/day 300 mg on the first day only You ingest, DO NOT INJECT


If it is ok to post a link to an outside forum let me know.


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## Cashout (Nov 23, 2012)

When I cycled, I would regularly use front loading and it worked very well for me.

Much of what is posted above is similar to the mathematical justification for front loading that I have previously posted elsewhere.

There are a couple of considerations that I'll also include now.

First, I never ran cycles for more than 12 weeks - hence a front load always made good sense for me in terms of maximizing my on-cycle time. Second, it helped me maintain a consistent blood level from start to the finish of the cycle.


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## cougar (Nov 23, 2012)

I've done my front loading by ,say my goal is 500 wk/ Test and 400 wk/Deca. I will pin 1000 Test and 800 Deca throught out the first week. Then go to the 500/t,400/ deca the second week as planned thru out.  Thats just my way,  I can't take orals.


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## Times Roman (Nov 23, 2012)

Another interesting tactic is to back load.  Some do this inadvertantly when switching to a long esther to a short esther towards the end of their cycle to reduce the amount of time before they can pct.  But by switching from long to short at the end, you are also increasing blood serum levels, which is the definition of a back load.  The benefit of a back load is higher blood serum level around the time receptor sites are becoming desensitized, so it helps keep gains going right til the end.


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## DADAWG (Nov 23, 2012)

im not crazy about front loading , i would rather see you add the extra gear into extending the cycle. orals at the front are great to get the cycle going strong and theres nothing wrong with throwing in 2-3 weeks of orals at the end as the long ester gear winds down BUT IMO its just to maximize the cycle and NOT because of receptors being desensitized , the stuff ive read shhows that receptors regenerate constantly. a

and IMO the whole receptor desensitizing theory is usually explained by the fact that the guy running the cycle did not increase calories during the cycle . he starts the cycle at 200 pounds and eating 3000 calories [ just a bullshit example ] hes 10 weeks into the cycle and now hes 217 pounds and his gains are slowing down. well the 3000 calories he was eating at 200 pounds was enough to make gains but at 217 pounds the 3000 is just a maintainence diet.


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## Cashout (Nov 23, 2012)

I've yet to see any clinically compelling evidence to support androgen receptor desensitization as is often described by those AAS users who have hit "plateaus" during their respective cycles.

As was stated, and from what I've seen, there always seems to be a high correlation between one's inability to sustain growth and inadequate caloric intake.


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## G-Man (Nov 23, 2012)

Wow lots of great info in here! I think I will try frontloading when I start my cycle after seeing all this.  DADAWG and cashout you brought up another area I had questions on which is great.  The issue with gains slowing down later in the cycle due to calories makes sense.


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## DADAWG (Nov 23, 2012)

Cashout said:


> I've yet to see any clinically compelling evidence to support androgen receptor desensitization as is often described by those AAS users who have hit "plateaus" during their respective cycles.
> 
> As was stated, and from what I've seen, there always seems to be a high correlation between one's inability to sustain growth and inadequate caloric intake.



i saw a study once but dont have it save that said the receptors were constantly being regenerated by the body , if its a new receptor it wouldnt be desensitized even if that was possible. 

people later in a cycle lose some of their drive , they get tired of eating JUST RIGHT , they get tired of drinking water while their buddies drink cold beer and they get tired of going to bed early instead of running with their crowd. when you combine that with failing to adjust their diet as their gains progress its the answer 99% of the time when gains stop at the end of a cycle. theres also a small percentage of advanced cyclers who have reached their quote unquote genetic limit by the end of their cycle and no matter what you do gains will slow down at that point.


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## Cashout (Nov 23, 2012)

I've read all of the published research. I was trying to be tactful and not call it a "myth" for the sake of others. 



DADAWG said:


> i saw a study once but dont have it save that said the receptors were constantly being regenerated by the body , if its a new receptor it wouldnt be desensitized even if that was possible.
> 
> people later in a cycle lose some of their drive , they get tired of eating JUST RIGHT , they get tired of drinking water while their buddies drink cold beer and they get tired of going to bed early instead of running with their crowd. when you combine that with failing to adjust their diet as their gains progress its the answer 99% of the time when gains stop at the end of a cycle. theres also a small percentage of advanced cyclers who have reached their quote unquote genetic limit by the end of their cycle and no matter what you do gains will slow down at that point.


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## Times Roman (Nov 23, 2012)

Cashout said:


> *I've yet to see any clinically compelling evidence to support androgen receptor desensitization* as is often described by those AAS users who have hit "plateaus" during their respective cycles.
> 
> As was stated, and from what I've seen, there always seems to be a high correlation between one's inability to sustain growth and inadequate caloric intake.





DADAWG said:


> im not crazy about front loading , i would rather see you add the extra gear into extending the cycle. orals at the front are great to get the cycle going strong and theres nothing wrong with throwing in 2-3 weeks of orals at the end as the long ester gear winds down BUT IMO its just to maximize the cycle and NOT because of receptors being desensitized , the stuff ive read shhows that receptors regenerate constantly. a
> 
> and IMO the whole receptor desensitizing theory is usually explained by the fact that the guy running the cycle did not increase calories during the cycle . he starts the cycle at 200 pounds and eating 3000 calories [ just a bullshit example ] hes 10 weeks into the cycle and now hes 217 pounds and his gains are slowing down. well the 3000 calories he was eating at 200 pounds was enough to make gains but at 217 pounds the 3000 is just a maintainence diet.



me neither.  I'm not sure how I came to believe this, so I decided to check it out.  I spent 20 minutes searching, and came up empty handed.  Plenty of articles/posts suggesting that my now previous position was based on myth instead of science.

Which is why we post in these threads.  To learn.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!


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## SAD (Nov 23, 2012)

CaptRon, where did that quote come from?  I briefly looked but couldn't find a cite.  The guy has some very conservative views as to how to frontload, when compared with my personal experience with frontloading cycles.  Also, I would love to know where he got his information concerning the half life of the decanoate ester.  

I love a proper frontload specifically for the purpose of making a shorter (and therefore easier to recover from) cycle more effective.  I'm a huge proponent of shorter cycles for those of you who cycle, and frontloading is, IMO, necessary to make the most of the cycle.

If you check out my thread on running three cycles in one year, you'll see what I recommend for frontloading based on my experiences.  Results may not be typical.  To each his own.


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## cougar (Nov 23, 2012)

This is all Great info, Thats why I lov SI .. Keep it coming..


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## G-Man (Nov 23, 2012)

SAD said:


> If you check out my thread on running three cycles in one year, you'll see what I recommend for frontloading based on my experiences.  Results may not be typical.  To each his own.



Thanks for the heads up, will definitely check it out. 


Question for anyone to answer: What kind of time frame would you start to expect test cyp/e to kick in if you frontload the first shot?  1 Week sooner?


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## SuperBane (Nov 24, 2012)

Sad I found your thread interesting but it is against those that advocate longer cycles to let the body become used to carrying the weight. I need to learn more about backloading I'd like to come off straight away into pct.

Anyone who has ran an oral such as Dbol for a kickstart  as well as simply front loaded to get the cycle started I'd like to hear about your experiences with both which do you feel was more beneficial?

This is a great thread!


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## 63Vette (Nov 24, 2012)

Dfeaton said:


> I'd rather do a kick start with an oral or short ester oil like test p.




This fellas ^^^^ I run a short ester and taper down while I taper up a long ester...  or use dbol or another oral to kickstart.


Much Respect,
Vette


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## Capt'n Ron (Nov 24, 2012)

SAD said:


> CaptRon, where did that quote come from?  I briefly looked but couldn't find a cite.  The guy has some very conservative views as to how to frontload, when compared with my personal experience with frontloading cycles.  Also, I would love to know where he got his information concerning the half life of the decanoate ester.



That Copy/ Paste job came from a forum I found while trying to research different PCT protocols. Dr. Scally posts there from time to time. The banner calls the site MesoRx.  The original poster goes by the handle Sworder. The rest of the thread kind of gets in the weeds and discusses Mathematical formulas for more accurately determining half life and doses. PM me if you want a link.

I started my current  TestE / MastE cycle with a frontload using that formula and a Dbol kick.


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## biggerben692000 (Nov 24, 2012)

Some guys were giving me shit when I suggested backloading with d-bol. It gives you an pretty good idea when to start hcg, Its mre accurate thatn taking hcg r clomid 2 weeks after yur last shot of test E.
No PCT for me s i've lost interest in this thread. Too much over thinking going on in the entire frum. Yur body is different, Get some tips but do your own thing,


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## SAD (Nov 24, 2012)

Superman said:


> Sad I found your thread interesting but it is against those that advocate longer cycles to let the body become used to carrying the weight. I need to learn more about backloading I'd like to come off straight away into pct.



Well, good.  I'm relieved that my stance is blatantly against those who feel longer cycles are best.  Think about it like this, if you believe that long cycles are better because they give your body the chance to "get used to" your new weight, then what about the extended time off and your body getting used to your off cycle LOSS of weight?  That is, of course, dependent on you caring about your HPTA and fully recovering between cycles.  IF you care about healthy and effective cycling for long term progression, it is my firm belief that shorter cycles (6-11 weeks), are the superior way to achieve those ends.


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## DADAWG (Nov 24, 2012)

SAD said:


> Well, good.  I'm relieved that my stance is blatantly against those who feel longer cycles are best.  Think about it like this, if you believe that long cycles are better because they give your body the chance to "get used to" your new weight, then what about the extended time off and your body getting used to your off cycle LOSS of weight?  That is, of course, dependent on you caring about your HPTA and fully recovering between cycles.  IF you care about healthy and effective cycling for long term progression, it is my firm belief that shorter cycles (6-11 weeks), are the superior way to achieve those ends.



there are people who have recovered hpta with cycles a year long so a 14-16 weeker isnt to long with a proper pct. i dont like short cycles because people tend to run higher doses to try and gain the same as a longer lower dose cycle and IMO for what thats worth a longer lower dose cycle gives the same results with less side effects than a shorter higher dose cycle. also there are numerous older cycler on this board who are allready on trt and the lobger lower dose cycle is DEFINATELY more sensible for them.


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## SAD (Nov 24, 2012)

My proposal is strictly for people who cycle and then recover natty production.  Clearly HPTA suppression is not an issue if you're on TRT.

As for 14-16 week cycles not being "too" long, I agree they can and will be recovered from with proper pct. The question is, how long will it take to recover enough natty production to mitigate the losses post-cycle?  I could go on and on, but that should be left to debate in my thread rather than derailing this one.  As I said already, it is a theory based on my opinion and experience.  Nobody has to agree with it.


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## Times Roman (Nov 24, 2012)

SAD said:


> My proposal is strictly for people who cycle and then recover natty production.  Clearly HPTA suppression is not an issue if you're on TRT.
> 
> As for 14-16 week cycles not being "too" long, I agree they can and will be recovered from with proper pct. The question is, how long will it take to recover enough natty production to mitigate the losses post-cycle?  I could go on and on, but that should be left to debate in my thread rather than derailing this one.  As I said already, it is a theory based on my opinion and experience.  Nobody has to agree with it.



alot can be said for a quick 8 week cycle with P


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## cranium85 (Nov 24, 2012)

i have frontlaoded two test only cycles... my feeling on this is that it may bring your blood levels up sooner but as far as feeling the effects ... you still have to wait a good month to start feeling the test cyp or eth even when you front load


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## SAD (Nov 25, 2012)

cranium85 said:


> i have frontlaoded two test only cycles... my feeling on this is that it may bring your blood levels up sooner but as far as feeling the effects ... you still have to wait a good month to start feeling the test cyp or eth even when you front load



"Feeling" it is too subjective and personal.  If you know that frontloading or kickstarting a cycle is going to get protein synthesis up to peak much faster and therefore be more effective regardless of length of cycle, but particularly in short cycles,  why in the world would you not do it?  I, unfortunately, have never been one of those guys that felt like superman while on cycle.  It may be due to the fact that I am a confident alpha-male naturally and therefore have always kind of felt like superman (cocky I know).  Either way though, I am not one to judge a cycle, or a way to cycle, based on feelings.  I am forced to do it based on fact.  I'm up 6 pounds, fact.  My squat is up 45 pounds, fact.  I still have a bicep pump from brushing my teeth 45 minutes ago, fact.  I'm finding it difficult to hide my spontaneous boners while at work, fact.  Etc, etc, etc.


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## Times Roman (Nov 25, 2012)

cranium85 said:


> i have frontlaoded two test only cycles... my feeling on this is that it may bring your blood levels up sooner but as far as feeling the effects ... you still have to wait a good month to start feeling the test cyp or eth even when you front load



I try to avoid subjective analysis such as "feeling it" and instead prefer to walk around the gym with my little notebook tracking my efforts/results.  If I front load with E, by doubling my initial dose the first week, and then the subsequent week, I can typically observe my rep count going up noticeably by the middle of the third week.  I usually do not see this until almost the end of the fourth week.  Quite often, when I do this, I like to end the cycle a week earlier to more or less balance out with the front load.

If I front load with P, my rep count jumps by around day 10.

I have so much E and C laying around, it makes sense to use what I have.  But if i had equal access to P, i think I'd just stick with that, and no need for front loads or 12 week cycles.


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## SuperBane (Nov 25, 2012)

Hmm very interesting thread. It has certainly muddled how I should run my cycle.
I originally planned a 12 week Test Cyp cycle at 600mg a week for 12 weeks.
With 20-50mg Dbol kickstart 4-5 weeks.

The closure we approach the new year the more I desire to change things to 12wk Test cycle with 4weeks of mast p on the end. Which would lead me into a second cycle of test/deca/mast

This thread as well as Sad's thread on short cycles has had me thinking a lot about how I should run things.
Although I am not keen on using orals as outlined in the short cycles described by Sad. (Because in the spring and summer I participate in a lot of social events with plenty beautiful women.... I always end up with a drink or three in hand. Winter not so much no big deal.)

I guess maybe I should start a new thread pertaining to my confusion lol
Overthinking can complicate the simplest of things.


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## silvereyes87 (Mar 19, 2016)

Has anyone front loaded recently? Know it's an old thread but thought I'd bump because I thought it was interesting. Alot of people kickstart with orals. But what if you're saving your oral for tail end of cycle. Would front loading be benificial in that circumstance?


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## jSalud (Aug 12, 2016)

silvereyes87 said:


> Has anyone front loaded recently? Know it's an old thread but thought I'd bump because I thought it was interesting. Alot of people kickstart with orals. But what if you're saving your oral for tail end of cycle. Would front loading be benificial in that circumstance?


I always front load my cycles either with prop/ace or double weekly dose on week 1. I love the feeling of being on cycle and I am inherently an impatient man. Seems to work fairly well on my book.


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## therealkozmo (Mar 4, 2017)

My doctor prescribed trt protocols have all started with 200mg a week of test c. With twice weekly hcg injections. I seem to feel it within the first few days. Then again placebo is a hell of a drug


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## FRITZBLITZ (Apr 16, 2017)

I would like you guys opinion on backloading. My biggest problem hands down is lathergy and drive when first weeks of PCT, don't get me wrong I still force my way through it but hate it. Not because I'm mentally bumed from not being on cycle it's just the sides of clomid Nolva and the radical chemical change in such an abrupt period slows me down bad. Would backloading increase this as far as having the sudden chemical change vs less test weening to PCT? Keep in mind in my case the first 2-3 weeks PCT is pounding PWO, tyroseen, and other energy boosting supps to keep working out at the pace of on cycle


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