# t levels double with no treatment?



## 20YO (May 17, 2013)

Hi guys, in early March, and again in late March, I had my t levels checked. On both occasions, they came in around 350 ng/dL.
However, when i got them checked again, just two days ago, theyve come back at 700... all other measures were normal apparently (fsh, lh, e2 etc). Have not been on AAS/TRT

Strange thing is, I've changed little between March and May; in fact, my diet and training have gotten worse. How could this be??

I still feel shit: shit libido, sexual function, body composition getting worse, making no gains, feel flat, lethargic...

Is it possible to have transient resurgences in t production? Could this blood test be off? The test was done at 1130am, the earlier two were done around 12pm. Same provider for two of the tests.... I'm stumpe


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## Georgia (May 17, 2013)

That is pretty wild. Could be a lab error. Another thing that affects test levels are stress and over exercising. Were you going through some stressful times around early March?

Still a big jump. It's hard to be certain. Maybe a 3rd or 4th test needs to be done to average out and/or make sure the labs didn't make a mistake


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## DF (May 17, 2013)

Other things that will effect test levels are sleep pattern, alcohol & drugs.  On top of what Georgia mentioned.


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## 20YO (May 17, 2013)

yeah only thing i can think, is i have been drinking a touch less... still, its such a significant dif! have another blood result coming in on sun. ill letcha kno...


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## j2048b (May 17, 2013)

get that e2 checked as well, it can get higher due to alcohol consumption, at least thats what ive been told, ive never drank and ran out to get mine checked, hmmm sounds like a challenge... na ill pass on that one...


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## 20YO (May 18, 2013)

Hi guys, so I grabbed my results today (doctor had only given me my tt over the phone) and it looks like SHBG has also doubled since last test. But here's the interesting bit: My estradiol was 140!! (range given as 30-150).... Yes I was well slept, no I haven't been touching the piss!

 Could this be an explanation for my symtpoms?! Still doesn't explain why I had two tt's come back in the 12's this March, but still... it is semi-promising!


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## 20YO (May 18, 2013)

FSH was 3.9 (1.5-12.4), LH was 6.2 (1.5-8.5), SHBG was 28 (15-50( cortisol was 235 (138-650) prolactin was 223(85-500)


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## 20YO (May 18, 2013)

*Potential solution for males with instable t levels, and high e2 (estradiol): 2.5mg/week of letrozole (an AI) See below excerpt!!*

Eur J Endocrinol. 2008 May;158(5):741-7. doi: 10.1530/EJE-07-0663.
Letrozole once a week normalizes serum testosterone in obesity-related male hypogonadism.
Loves S, Ruinemans-Koerts J, de Boer H.
Source

Department of Internal Medicine, Ziekenhuis Rijnstate, Wagnerlaan 55, 6800 TA Arnhem, The Netherlands.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

Isolated *hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH) is frequently observed in severely obese men, probably as a result of increased estradiol (E(2)) production and E(2)-mediated negative feedback on pituitary LH secretion.* Aromatase inhibitors can reverse this process. This study evaluates whether letrozole once a week can normalize serum testosterone in severely obese men and maintain its long term effect.
DESIGN:

Open, uncontrolled 6-month pilot study in 12 severely obese men (body mass index>35.0 kg/m(2)) with obesity-related IHH and free testosterone levels <225 pmol/l, treated with 2.5 mg letrozole once a week for 6 months.
RESULTS:

Six weeks of *treatment reduced total E(2) from 123+/-11 to 58+/-7 pmol/l* (P<0.001, mean+/-s.e.m.), and increased serum LH from 4.4+/-0.6 to 11.1+/-1.5 U/l (P<0.001). Total testosterone rose from 5.9+/-0.5 to 19.6+/-1.4 nmol/l (P<0.001), and free testosterone from 163+/-13 to 604+/-50 pmol/l (P<0.001). *Total testosterone rose to within the normal range in all subjects, whereas free testosterone rose to supraphysiological levels in 7 out of 12 men.* The testosterone and E(2) levels were stable throughout the week and during the 6-month treatment period.
CONCLUSION:

Letrozole 2.5 mg once a week produced a sustained normalization of serum total testosterone in obese men with IHH. However, free testosterone frequently rose to supraphysiological levels. Therefore, a starting dose <2.5 mg once a week is recommended.


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## 20YO (May 18, 2013)

*It's arguable that high e2, even in the presence of normal test levels, can make you symptomatic... see below*

Here is a list of some of the symptoms of high E2 (you don't have to
experience all of the symptoms to know that you have high E2):
* Depression
* Trouble reaching an orgasm
* No erections while sleeping (i.e. "night wood" or "morning wood")
* Anxiety
* Panic Attacks
* Prostate problems
* Gynecomastia
* Water Retention
* Dizziness/Vertigo
* Increased Blood Pressure
* Decreased Libido
* ED
* When penis is limp, it doesn't hang low (it seems to try to crawl back up)
* Asthma like issues (due to increased water retention around the lungs)
* Trouble sleeping at night - waking up multiple times per night
* Lack of Libido
* Crying while watching TV shows/movies
* Easier to get angry (think PMS)
* Insulin Resistance (getting tired after eating a meal - if left
untreated, it can lead to Type II Diabetes)
* Larger stomach
* Redness on the face and/or chest
* Feeling hotter than everybody else
* Thinner skin/bleeding easier


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## FreeBirdSam (May 18, 2013)

20YO said:


> *It's arguable that high e2, even in the presence of normal test levels, can make you symptomatic... see below*
> 
> Here is a list of some of the symptoms of high E2 (you don't have to
> experience all of the symptoms to know that you have high E2):
> ...





Definitely no argument there.   Many guys will attest to these symptoms when there e2 gets too high or too low.  Even in the presence of exogenous test


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## 03ACE (May 23, 2013)

What Sam said. I never thought going into TRT that E2 was going to be more important for me to monitor than total T, but it is. At least for me. If my T is at 1000 and my E2 is 20, I feel great. If my T is 600, and my E2 is 20, I feel great. If my T is at 600 or 1000 and my E2 is at 80, I am a moody, angry, sad, crying bitch. To get my Doc's nurse to understand I said "imagine you are a 40 year old "masculine" guy and you are having your first period....."


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