# Designing an insulin protocol



## bossbitch (Oct 16, 2021)

Hello. I am looking for knowledgeable fact sharing. I am a top level athlete .... historical world record holder powerlifter and IFBB Bodybuilder ... and I have been using, learning and relearning gear for over a decade. So if I am doing something factually biologically stupid, please explain, I want to hear. Otherwise, I'm just looking for information on how this works so I can continue to learn. I have a coach and several mentors all with differing advice so I am learning as much as I can on my own.

Trying out insulin for the first time. It is something I want to feel out in off season but right  now am using it solely to fill out for a photo shoot during my few carb load days. Am being extremely conservative and have been checking glucose levels at different points so that I can better design timing and amounts. Tried 2 iu pre, intra then post workout (6 total) with different types of meals or shakes depending, roughly 30g carbs each time with protein, didn't notice much of anything (I weigh 170) Next day was much more sore than usual so I'm sure there is something to that. Next day intention was to do 4iu pre and 2 or 3 post (since you should already be pretty low on blood sugar by then anyway, right?) and just the carbs themselves during. So still 6 or 7 total but different timing.  Had about 50g carbs pre, 60 during. Took blood sugar after training and was 84 so did not take any insulin and just had extra carbs. SO what I'm wondering is in tweaking this, should I go less insulin or more carbs in that pre and intra workout periods? I am eating carbs all throughout the day as well. I would say I have had at least 100g before ever getting to the pre workout ritual.

I have a meeting with a coach of mine and he is super good with this, I'm not avoiding asking him. But at this off season point he has a lot of things going on and I'm looking for an immediate idea so I can tweak how I do this tomorrow.

Appreciate any insight.


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## CJ (Oct 16, 2021)

I've never used insulin myself, SO DO NOT ACCEPT THIS AS ADVICE, but I've always heard that you dose your insulin to the amount of carbs you want to eat, not the other way around.

I've heard it explained that you titrate up your insulin dose, and when you start to feel hypo, then back off from there a bit.

And I've heard that taking it on your heavy lifting days is pretty common, like legs and back.

I've also heard to not take it before bed, or you might not wake up. 😳😳😳

Sorry that I'm not much help, I'm sure a few guys here have better advice than I could give.


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## dirtys1x (Oct 16, 2021)

I don't know much adding exogenous insulin to a body building regimen. However, I can tell you that less is probably better. Hypoglycemia is fatal, and it can happen fast. If your coach is a professional and knows how and exactly when to monitor blood glucose.. I would probably stick with his advice. Or an actual physician's advice.


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## bossbitch (Oct 16, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> I've never used insulin myself, SO DO NOT ACCEPT THIS AS ADVICE, but I've always heard that you dose your insulin to the amount of carbs you want to eat, not the other way around.
> 
> I've heard it explained that you titrate up your insulin dose, and when you start to feel hypo, then back off from there a bit.
> 
> ...


I appreciate this, it is something I will actually look into. Dosing the insulin based on the carbs.
I actually found another place I probably should have posted this so I am going to take it there now. But again, thank you!


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## BRICKS (Oct 16, 2021)

Personally I would never use insulin pre or intra workout. It's a storage hormone. Drives glycogen into the muscle and liver and when those stores are full excess is stored as fat.  Also helps with protein synthesis.  So why use it when you're wanting to tap those stores during training.  Better served using it post workout for recovery.  10-15 grams of carbs per unit of rapid acting insulin (humalog or novalog). Half the carbs in rapid acting carbs (Karbolyn and Vitargo are examples of "non sugar" carbs rapidly absorbed) and some protein immediately on injecting and the other half at the 1 hour mark.  So for example, 10 units novolog immediately after training with 1 scoop Karbolyn and 50 grams whey protein, then an hour later 50 grams (200 grams cooked) white rice and 12-16 oz baked cod.  That's my protocol.  With insulin you need to know onset, peak and duration.  Novolog/Humalog is 15 minutes onset, peak t about and hour, duration 4-5 hours.  Thus you see where the meal timing comes in.  Do not change up type of insulin (short, intermediate and long acting), they all have different onset, peak and duration times.  You hear everyone talk about how dangerous insulin is but if you strictly adhere to a few rules then you will not run into trouble.  Never take you insulin unless your meals are right there ready. You don't take your slin then drive home to eat.  Take it in the kitchen at your blender. Keep some fruit juice in the fridge.  Since you are a pro assuming you have that kind of discipline.  The other caution with insulin is this.  You can get fat fast.  Start on the light end and work up, so for example, start with 2 units for a few days, then 4, etc, as you learn how you respond.  Same with the carbs. 15 gms per unit is a bit heavy IMO, but I will always start with 10 and scale it back slowly.  Signs that you're getting a little low on the blood sugar include getting sweaty, little bit shaky, some cloudy thinking.

Hope there's something helpful here.

PS: remember to count those calories in with your daily count.


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## bossbitch (Oct 16, 2021)

BRICKS said:


> Personally I would never use insulin pre or intra workout. It's a storage hormone. Drives glycogen into the muscle and liver and when those stores are full excess is stored as fat.  Also helps with protein synthesis.  So why use it when you're wanting to tap those stores during training.  Better served using it post workout for recovery.  10-15 grams of carbs per unit of rapid acting insulin (humalog or novalog). Half the carbs in rapid acting carbs (Karbolyn and Vitargo are examples of "non sugar" carbs rapidly absorbed) and some protein immediately on injecting and the other half at the 1 hour mark.  So for example, 10 units novolog immediately after training with 1 scoop Karbolyn and 50 grams whey protein, then an hour later 50 grams (200 grams cooked) white rice and 12-16 oz baked cod.  That's my protocol.  With insulin you need to know onset, peak and duration.  Novolog/Humalog is 15 minutes onset, peak t about and hour, duration 4-5 hours.  Thus you see where the meal timing comes in.  Do not change up type of insulin (short, intermediate and long acting), they all have different onset, peak and duration times.  You hear everyone talk about how dangerous insulin is but if you strictly adhere to a few rules then you will not run into trouble.  Never take you insulin unless your meals are right there ready. You don't take your slin then drive home to eat.  Take it in the kitchen at your blender. Keep some fruit juice in the fridge.  Since you are a pro assuming you have that kind of discipline.  The other caution with insulin is this.  You can get fat fast.  Start on the light end and work up, so for example, start with 2 units for a few days, then 4, etc, as you learn how you respond.  Same with the carbs. 15 gms per unit is a bit heavy IMO, but I will always start with 10 and scale it back slowly.  Signs that you're getting a little low on the blood sugar include getting sweaty, little bit shaky, some cloudy thinking.
> 
> Hope there's something helpful here.
> 
> PS: remember to count those calories in with your daily count.


That makes theoretical sense,  not taking it pre. But I think the point is to be shuttling it as you train to help repair as you go and to build without tearing as much down. 

But some things to think about here. Thank you. How do you think the carbs you eat throughout the day affect this whole process? Would you limit them? I know how many carbs a day I want to be eating, would I plan to have the majority with the shots around training? I'm carb loading at the moment so its been more of a carb free for all but I will go back to a strict allowance after the shoot. So wondering for when I do this again strictly for training.


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## BRICKS (Oct 16, 2021)

The carbs with the insulin protocol count out of your total carb count for the day.  So if your total carbs for the day are 400 grams  you are down to 300 the rest of the day.  I would never consider using insulin during a cut or leaning out, and prefer to be leaned out before I start.  As I said before, just too easy to get fat with it. I've read somewhere about insulin use leading to accumulation of intramuscular fat (marbeling).  I can't comment to the validity of that statement, haven't researched it.  As far as the pre workout goes, have done it, it was fkng miserable.  Trying to train and constantly consuming a carb drink to fight hypoglycemia.  It was miserable.


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## bossbitch (Oct 16, 2021)

BRICKS said:


> The carbs with the insulin protocol count out of your total carb count for the day.  So if your total carbs for the day are 400 grams  you are down to 300 the rest of the day.  I would never consider using insulin during a cut or leaning out, and prefer to be leaned out before I start.  As I said before, just too easy to get fat with it. I've read somewhere about insulin use leading to accumulation of intramuscular fat (marbeling).  I can't comment to the validity of that statement, haven't researched it.  As far as the pre workout goes, have done it, it was fkng miserable.  Trying to train and constantly consuming a carb drink to fight hypoglycemia.  It was miserable.


Agree! Eating and shakes during is miserable!


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