# Learning the hard way.



## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

Just got my first blood work done. 

What I'm taking. 
One amp Sustanon from Searle every Monday. 
One ML 4test from Omega every Friday. 
2IU Saizen HGH AM and 2IU PM. (Is it real, who knows?) 
5G creatine monohydrate ED. 
2 Protein shakes ED.

FASTING: YES
COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL W/EGFR
GLUCOSE                                                98      NORMAL 65-99 mg/dL 01


Fasting reference interval
UREA NITROGEN (BUN)                            19      NORMAL 7-25 mg/dL 01
CREATININE                                            1.11    NORMAL 0.60-1.35 mg/dL 01
eGFR NON-AFR. AMERICAN                       82      NORMAL > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2 01
eGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN                        95      NORMAL > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2 01
BUN/CREATININE RATIO                           N/A          NORMAL 6-22 (calc) 01
SODIUM                                                  137     NORMAL 135-146 mmol/L 01
POTASSIUM                                             4.7     NORMAL 3.5-5.3 mmol/L 01
CHLORIDE                                               102     NORMAL 98-110 mmol/L 01
CARBON DIOXIDE                                    29      NORMAL 20-32 mmol/L 01
CALCIUM                                                 9.4     NORMAL 8.6-10.3 mg/dL 01
PROTEIN, TOTAL                                       6.9     NORMAL 6.1-8.1 g/dL 01
ALBUMIN                                                 4.3     NORMAL 3.6-5.1 g/dL 01
GLOBULIN                                               2.6     NORMAL 1.9-3.7 g/dL (calc) 01
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO                       1.7     NORMAL 1.0-2.5 (calc) 01
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL                                    0.6     NORMAL 0.2-1.2 mg/dL 01
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE                          55      NORMAL 36-130 U/L 01
AST                                                        20      NORMAL 10-40 U/L 01
ALT                                                         13      NORMAL 9-46 U/L 01

(I did my regular 2IU 3.5 hours before blood draw.)
IGF-I, ELECTROCHEMILUMINESCENCE
IGF 1, LC/MS                                           304     NORMAL 52-328 ng/mL 02
Z SCORE (MALE)                                      1.8     NORMAL -2.0 - +2.0 SD 02


Z SCORE (FEMALE)                                   DNR    NORMAL 02
ESTRADIOL, REBASELINE
ESTRADIOL                                              56      HIGH < OR = 39 pg/mL 01




FSH                                                        1.1     LOW 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL 01

LUTENIZING HORMONE
LH                                                         <0.2    LOW 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL 01

CBC (INCLUDES DIFF/PLT)
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT                       3.6     LOW 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL 01
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT                           5.26    NORMAL 4.20-5.80 Million/uL 01
HEMOGLOBIN                                            15.2    NORMAL 13.2-17.1 g/dL 01
HEMATOCRIT                                            46.7    NORMAL 38.5-50.0 % 01
MCV                                                         88.8    NORMAL 80.0-100.0 fL 01
MCH                                                         28.9    NORMAL 27.0-33.0 pg 01
MCHC                                                       32.5    NORMAL 32.0-36.0 g/dL 01
RDW                                                         12.9    NORMAL 11.0-15.0 % 01
PLATELET COUNT                                       273     NORMAL 140-400 Thousand/uL 01
MPV                                                          10.2    NORMAL 7.5-12.5 fL 01
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS                           1609    NORMAL 1500-7800 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE BAND NEUTROPHILS                  DNR     NORMAL 0-750 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE METAMYELOCYTES                     DNR     NORMAL 0 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE MYELOCYTES                             DNR     NORMAL 0 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE PROMYELOCYTES                       DNR     NORMAL 0 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES                           1487    NORMAL 850-3900 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES                              353     NORMAL 200-950 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS                            130     NORMAL 15-500 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS                                22      NORMAL 0-200 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE BLASTS                                     DNR     NORMAL 0 cells/uL 01
ABSOLUTE NUCLEATED RBC                        DNR     NORMAL 0 cells/uL 01
NEUTROPHILS                                           44.7    NORMAL % 01
BAND NEUTROPHILS                                  DNR     NORMAL % 01
METAMYELOCYTES                                     DNR     NORMAL % 01
MYELOCYTES                                             DNR     NORMAL % 01
PROMYELOCYTES                                       DNR     NORMAL % 01
LYMPHOCYTES                                           41.3    NORMAL % 01
REACTIVE LYMPHOCYTES                            DNR     NORMAL 0-10 % 01
MONOCYTES                                              9.8     NORMAL % 01
EOSINOPHILS                                            3.6     NORMAL % 01
BASOPHILS                                                0.6     NORMAL % 01
BLASTS                                                     DNR     NORMAL % 01
NUCLEATED RBC                                        DNR     NORMAL 0 /100 WBC 01
COMMENT(S)                                             DNR     NORMAL 01

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MALES (ADULT),
IA                                                             716     NORMAL 250-827 ng/dL 01


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## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

I know my LH is low and I am going to try to correct this with HCG as soon as it arrives. 
I got one question for all you muscle doctors. Does it look like my HGH and test are legit? Should my testosterone levels be "normal" at 500mg per week?


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## rawdeal (Apr 16, 2021)

"Broscience," fwiw, has often maintained your serum Test might be expected to equal 5 x your weekly injected Test ... depending on elapsed time between a Test injection and a blood draw for the Lab, and the fabled "individual differences."  If all that is very approximately true, the 500mg you are injecting should put you somewhere above range.

Not familiar with that Omega "4 Test," however, I guess you're saying another 250mg comes from that?  Also, how many weeks were you on this cycle before the blood was drawn?  If you'd just begun, quality products may not have had enough time to show up the way we'd expect on blood work.

You are disgustingly healthy, btw.


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## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

I've been on cycle for 5 weeks. In the begining I was also taking 10mg anavar twice daily. I didn't like it and quit about one week before the blood draw. 

The Searle is a pharma  product and I am confident in its authenticity. The 4test is a UG labs product and if there is a deficiency in my results it is from there. 

Disgustingly healthy is great to hear! Thank you.


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## sfw509 (Apr 16, 2021)

Did you do pre curly blood work for a baseline to compare?


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## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

sfw509 said:


> Did you do pre curly blood work for a baseline to compare?



I did not. I admit I started this the wrong way. It was only after joining this forum that I started learning the right way to do things and ordered bloods and HCG which I should have started the cycle with. My next cycle will be much better planned.

If half my Test is bunk that means I'm only doing 250mg a week. I'm responding REALLY well to test so far, which makes me look forward to the gains I'll see on a real cycle.


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## CJ (Apr 16, 2021)

That Total Test level seems awfully low for 500 mg week.

We're all different, but 200 mg of RX Test per week puts my levels around 1,200 ng/dl.


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## creekrat (Apr 16, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> That Total Test level seems awfully low for 500 mg week.
> 
> We're all different, but 200 mg of RX Test per week puts my levels around 1,200 ng/dl.



Im at around 1100 with at 200mg ew


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## Robdjents (Apr 16, 2021)

Does that say your test level is 716 on 500mg a week? If so I'd say it's fake or very underdosed....im gonna go with fake...just my opinion


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## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

Thanks for the feedback. If the Searle sust is the only real one then my last dose was the 7 days before the blood draw. 
No way for me to reorder in time to finish out this cycle. My pharmacy takes like a month to deliver.


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## Robdjents (Apr 16, 2021)

ftf said:


> Thanks for the feedback. If the Searle sust is the only real one then my last dose was the 7 days before the blood draw.
> No way for me to reorder in time to finish out this cycle. My pharmacy takes like a month to deliver.



At that test level I don't think any of it is real. I'd throw it all away and find a good source

What actual dose of the Searle are you taking...1 Amp isn't much to go off of..200? 250?


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## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

One amp is 250mg . 
Now I'm really seeing the need for baseline blood work.


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## CJ (Apr 16, 2021)

Your LH and FSH are low, so I don't think it's all fake...unless those were low to begin with... but then you probably wouldn't have a 700+ Total Test level.

I don't think that 700+ is out of the realm of possibility on 250 mg/week, so maybe the amps are fine but the other stuff is crap???


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## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

CJ275 said:


> Your LH and FSH are low, so I don't think it's all fake...unless those were low to begin with... but then you probably wouldn't have a 700+ Total Test level.
> 
> I don't think that 700+ is out of the realm of possibility on 250 mg/week, so maybe the amps are fine but the other stuff is crap???



That is exactly what I'm thinking too after hearing from everyone here. Thanks for your feedback.


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## Flyingdragon (Apr 16, 2021)

How old r u?  Natural test levels decline as we age.


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## ftf (Apr 16, 2021)

42 this month.


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## GymTeddy (Apr 16, 2021)

I wish I had some great feedback to give, but it's already been said.

I will say that it is always interesting to see the results of a person's blood work. I'm 40 yrs old and back in college, just finished my biology course. Reading threads like this now have a whole new perspective for me.


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## creekrat (Apr 17, 2021)

When was your most recent pin in relation to when you had your blood drawn?


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## ftf (Apr 17, 2021)

creekrat said:


> When was your most recent pin in relation to when you had your blood drawn?



I pinned 250ml pharma sust Monday night and the draw was the next Monday morning. So 7 days. I'm not counting the UG test I pinned on Friday because I think it is fake.

Five weeks on test at this point.


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## rawdeal (Apr 17, 2021)

ftf said:


> 42 this month.





GymTeddy said:


> I wish I had some great feedback to give, but it's already been said.
> 
> I will say that it is always interesting to see the results of a person's blood work. I'm 40 yrs old and back in college, just finished my biology course. Reading threads like this now have a whole new perspective for me.




Lol, Mods are letting too many youngsters in here lately ... we need more old fvcks like "Moi."  Life begins to begin @ 50


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## ftf (Apr 17, 2021)

rawdeal said:


> Lol, Mods are letting too many youngsters in here lately ... we need more old fvcks like "Moi." Life begins to begin @ 50



People over 50 don't use the inter-web.


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## rawdeal (Apr 17, 2021)

ftf said:


> People over 50 don't use the inter-web.



My grandkids help me, smartass


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## ftf (Apr 19, 2021)

Chest day today. 
I've been skipping bar work due to shoulder pain. I don't think it's going to heal. Still I feel good about hitting those 95's!
DB press 70x10/80x10/90x8/95x8
Dips        20/20/20
Fly's        20x10/20x10/20x10
Paramount rotary chest 145x10/145x10/145x10


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## ftf (Apr 20, 2021)

Back day.

Deadlifts  135x10 / 225x10 / 225x10 / 225x10   Taking it easy on my back. I get winded just doing sets of 10!

  Super sets
Shrugs   225x10 / 225x10 / 225x10 
Pullups   10 / 10 / 10 

Chainsaws   70x10 / 70x10 / 70x10 
t-bar rows   95x10 / 95x10 / 100x10


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## DEADlifter (Apr 21, 2021)

Good work, bro!


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## ftf (Apr 21, 2021)

This is another place I skip bar work because I have less shoulder pain using D bells.

Arnolds   45x8 / 50x8 / 55x8 / 60x5
Side raises   20x10 / 20x10 / 25x8
Rear raises   20x10 / 20x10 / 20x8

I did a little circuit here (below). The last exercise is the one where you hold a straight bar near the middle and lift it up near your chin.* Does it have a name? It's something I picked up from a magazine over 20 years ago.

Ab wheel   10 / 10 / 10 / 10
back ext.   10 / 10 / 10 / 10
*Bar raise  45x10 / 55x10 / 70x10 / 75x10

I go straight to McDonald's afterwards for breakfast. 1 oatmeal and a small coffee.


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## rawdeal (Apr 21, 2021)

Not for every shoulder problem, but if you have access to a multi-grip Bar where your hands are parallel, or they are like a V pointing up or down, at whatever width the Bar allows, that might add to your menu of exercises.

Absent that access, trying to mimic the same grips with db's may help.




McDonalds:   ONE oatmeal and a SMALL coffee,  is THAT it, Sir?""

ftf:                  yes.

McDonalds:   Would you like some fries with that?!


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## ftf (Apr 22, 2021)

rawdeal said:


> McDonalds:   ONE oatmeal and a SMALL coffee,  is THAT it, Sir?""
> 
> ftf:                  yes.
> 
> McDonalds:   Would you like some fries with that?!



Rawdeal, bodybuilder / ugbb's resident comedian. Thank for the advice and the chuckles. I will look around the gym for different bars.


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## rawdeal (Apr 22, 2021)

It would probably be better for the board if I was a reticent comedian, but,  "oh well  ........ "

Depending on the gym, you may or may not find one, but those Bars and the Safety Squat (Yoke) Bars have been lifesavers for me.  My shoulders no longer like straight Bar benching OR reaching back to grip a straight Bar for squatting.


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## Flyingdragon (Apr 22, 2021)

rawdeal said:


> It would probably be better for the board if I was a reticent comedian, but,  "oh well  ........ "
> 
> Depending on the gym, you may or may not find one, but those Bars and the Safety Squat (Yoke) Bars have been lifesavers for me.  My shoulders no longer like straight Bar benching OR reaching back to grip a straight Bar for squatting.




RawDeal never misses a chance to grip my straight bar :32 (16):


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## rawdeal (Apr 22, 2021)

Can't fit enough plates on a 3" bar, FD.


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## ftf (Apr 22, 2021)

Armies

Supersets 
EZ curl standing    70x10 / 90x10 / 100x10 / 105x10 
Tri press behind the head 
same bar same weight   70x10 / 90x10 / 100x10 / 105x10 

Alt hammer seated 45x10 / 50x10 / 55x10

DB overhead tri ext. 25x10 / 30x10 / 35x8

Rope pull down for tri's 100x10 / 110x10 / 110x10 


Then McDonalds. Contrary to popular belief, they love me there.


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## ftf (Apr 23, 2021)

Squats   135x8 / 135x8 / 135x8 / 185x8
Leg Press   180x10 / 270x10 / 360x10

Supersets on hammer strength iso-lateral machines
Leg ext.   45x10 / 45x10 / 45x10
Leg curl   45x10 / 45x10 / 45x10

Seated calf raise   95x10 / 120x10 / 120x10 / 120x10 

I have become _that guy_ in the gym with legs too small for his body. Shit.

This is week #8 in the gym and on my test only cycle. This week I started HCG and Arimidex. Better late than never.


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## rawdeal (Apr 23, 2021)

No better feeling than a HUGE pair of balls and a small pair of tits


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## ftf (Apr 23, 2021)

rawdeal said:


> No better feeling than a HUGE pair of balls and a small pair of tits



Man, I'm just shaking my head.... Phrasing RD. Lol.


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## creekrat (Apr 23, 2021)

Keep up the solid work


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## MuscleMedicineMD (Apr 24, 2021)

hey FTF,
sorry for the delay, this time of year is crazy busy for teaching, coaching, PT, and secret lab work 
1. For a normal patient, I would look into your BUN/Cr, but for a BBer it is normal and expected. All lineage blood cell markers indicate normal working bone marrow. Lymph/Nu/Eos cell numbers indicate normo-reactive immune system and no chronic conditions. (each of those 'phils' and 'cytes' are very informative with a sick patient).
2. No need for HCG, your gonadotropic ant. pituitary hormone levels (LH/FSH) are 'normal' for your situation, and needs no correcting unless you have some need to keep your testes artificially enlarged while on cycle, you are/were on very mild medicines (Anavar/T), so Testes volume will decrease some but blasting yourself with HCG early/mid-cycle isn't necessary IMO.  Does repeated large dosages of HCG reduce your gonadal response to your own axis hormones (ie. LH) as they begin to climb post cycle?
**note: I recently saw a study where just 10mg of winstrol for 2 wks that severely reduced said gonadotropins; thus anavar would've complemented Test here** also, real Var @20mg should have aided in strength and pumps; not sure what you didnt like?  
3. There is no natural situation where Total T is high, and LH is low low (Testicular CA/adenomas are inactive hormonally), Soo..1 product is definitely real. 
4. IGF1 levels (ng.ml) with your 2iu am/pm split (nice) are in the range of what I expected to see, though IGF conversion sensitivity is individual specific (need reference to be sure. but..I'm leaning real on GH)
5. At that Ttotal level (& E2) only 1 is real. @ around 400mg (the prop esters quickly clear and are not additive 7 days later) I normally see much higher levels; thousand++ for sure. why the choice of a sust? Manufacturing time, pip, cost(?), utility..idk mixed ester gear is largely a waste IMO. Fake/underdosed Test is heresy IMO too. 
6. low liver enzymes, good albumin. id love those numbers. can we switch livers?
7. 200mg Test is a cycle, and was my first cycle. Transformed me. So dont give up just yet, focus on nutrition, heavy hypertrophy training..and max your gains out!
8. lastly, I like what 'rawdeal' stated about benching tech. dumbells with elbows at 45 degrees from abdomen or equivalent BB for a more shoulder friendly pressing movement (this is how mountindog teaches it).  
Anymore specifics about your numbers, just ask. Avoid any AIs unless symptoms call for it, E is your friend, cardio, vascular and neuro protective plus helps with primary goals.

Best,
MuscleMedicineMD


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## MuscleMedicineMD (Apr 25, 2021)

Pharmacokinetics and metabolic effects of high-dose growth hormone administration in healthy adult men - PubMed (nih.gov) 
looking at this study where healthy males, taking about 5iu (0.075/kg) HGH ed, hit an IGF1 of roughly 288ng/ml and 310ng/ml at 12hrs and 24hrs respectively post administration. Those who continued on at a higher dosage of around 18iu ed for several more days hit a plateau of 786 at day #6..this group also experienced other interesting things. read it.

full free paper via Jstage link, at bottom
enjoy,
M3


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## MrInsensitive (Apr 25, 2021)

Hey don’t toss the test just yet man. 
I have a close friend who was taking 250mg cypionate 2x a week, at his 5 week mark he was around 500ng/dl too. 
but also, his diet was trash, he was taking dbol and his E2 was wicked high. I don’t know if all this relates, but I know for absolute certain that his test is gtg and rightly dosed. 
point being, he was 5 weeks in and still had average levels. He didn’t have a base either, but if I had to guess, he was almost bottomed out before the cycle, shut himself all the way down, and it was a slow climb to saturation.


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## ftf (Apr 25, 2021)

Thank you MuscleMedicinMD for your time and detailed response. I'll try to answer where ever I see a question mark. 



MuscleMedicineMD said:


> Does repeated large dosages of HCG reduce your gonadal response to your own axis hormones (ie. LH) as they begin to climb post cycle?



I hope you aren't asking me because I sure as hell don't know. I started HCG after listening to something MrRippedzilla posted, (he is the guy with the English accent, right?) I can't find the thread, or I would link it. It sounded like good advice to increase the chances of full recovery of natural testosterone levels. I don't plan to continue TRT for the rest of my life. 



MuscleMedicineMD said:


> **note: I recently saw a study where just 10mg of winstrol for 2 wks that severely reduced said gonadotropins; thus anavar would've complemented Test here** also, real Var @20mg should have aided in strength and pumps; not sure what you didn't like?


 
Increased strength, probably. Pumps, for sure. I can't say for sure it was the var but both elbows were constantly hurting me, mostly on the inside near the funny bone.  Anavar was the only variable I was willing to give up at the time. It could be I was adjusting to lifting so I might give var another try. 



MuscleMedicineMD said:


> 5. At that Ttotal level (& E2) only 1 is real. @ around 400mg (the prop esters quickly clear and are not additive 7 days later) I normally see much higher levels; thousand++ for sure. why the choice of a sust? Manufacturing time, pip, cost(?), utility..idk mixed ester gear is largely a waste IMO. Fake/underdosed Test is heresy IMO too.



Yes pip was a factor. It is much easier to pin twice a week than EOD. I hate the needles.



MuscleMedicineMD said:


> 6. low liver enzymes, good albumin. id love those numbers. can we switch livers?



You can have it when I'm done using it.



MuscleMedicineMD said:


> Avoid any AIs unless symptoms call for it, E is your friend, cardio, vascular and neuro protective plus helps with primary goals.



OK. I'll drop the AI as I didn't notice any sides from my high E.
Thanks again for your feedback, I really appreciate it.


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## ftf (Apr 25, 2021)

MuscleMedicineMD said:


> Pharmacokinetics and metabolic effects of high-dose growth hormone administration in healthy adult men - PubMed (nih.gov)
> looking at this study where healthy males, taking about 5iu (0.075/kg) HGH ed, hit an IGF1 of roughly 288ng/ml and 310ng/ml at 12hrs and 24hrs respectively post administration. Those who continued on at a higher dosage of around 18iu ed for several more days hit a plateau of 786 at day #6..this group also experienced other interesting things. read it.
> 
> full free paper via Jstage link, at bottom
> ...



I read the abstract. Thanks but I'm not sure it's written in English. 
Also I found MrRippedZilla's thread on HCG. I'll post the link if you are interested. 
https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/35877-How-to-use-hCG-on-cycle-for-TRT?highlight=hcg


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## MrInsensitive (Apr 25, 2021)

ftf said:


> I read the abstract. Thanks but I'm not sure it's written in English.
> Also I found MrRippedZilla's thread on HCG. I'll post the link if you are interested.
> https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/35877-How-to-use-hCG-on-cycle-for-TRT?highlight=hcg


Ftf I can assure you, M3 is the real deal. He knows his stuff and he’s damn good at what he does.


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## ftf (Apr 25, 2021)

MrInsensitive said:


> Ftf I can assure you, M3 is the real deal. He knows his stuff and he’s damn good at what he does.



Thanks. I absolutely agree. I was only saying the study he linked is beyond my understanding. Did I come of like I was questioning him?


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## CJ (Apr 25, 2021)

ftf said:


> Thanks. I absolutely agree. I was only saying the study he linked is beyond my understanding. Did I come of like I was questioning him?



I didn't think so. You're good


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## ftf (Apr 26, 2021)

DB press   70x10 / 80x10 / 90x8 / 100x7 
Dips   20 / 20 / 20 
Incline flies   20x10 / 25x10 / 25x10 

SS
Back ext.   10 / 10 / 10
Ab wheel   10 / 12 / 12


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## rawdeal (Apr 26, 2021)

ftf said:


> Thanks. I absolutely agree. I was only saying the study he linked is beyond my understanding. Did I come of like I was questioning him?



Nice Log, ftf, but everybody does sets+reps.  It's the other stuff you bring here that gives me hope you've found a home and will stick around for a long time.


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## ftf (Apr 26, 2021)

Thanks rawdeal, thats like a verbal hug.:32 (16):


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## rawdeal (Apr 26, 2021)

It was more than a hug, but let's not "get into" that


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## MrInsensitive (Apr 27, 2021)

ftf said:


> Thanks. I absolutely agree. I was only saying the study he linked is beyond my understanding. Did I come of like I was questioning him?


No sir, not at all. I apologize for leading that question. 
I was just assuring you, brother.


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## ftf (Apr 27, 2021)

Back day. I don't even want to post it.

Deadlifts   135x5 / 225x5 / 315x5 / 365x1 / 295x2

SS
DB shrugs 100x10 / 100x10 / 100x10
Pullups   10 / 10 / 10

Chainsaws   65x10 / 70x10 / 75x10

T-bar rows   95x10 / 95x10 / 95x10


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## ftf (Apr 29, 2021)

Phoned it in today. Went to the gym, half-assed some DB shoulder presses and left. Struggled with a negative attitude all day like just real unhappy, depressed. It has to be a hormone issue as this is not how I normally am. I'm sure I'll get over it. 

On a brighter note I used the body scanner at my gym and it says I'm 14% body fat! Thought for sure I would be higher than that. The machine says I don't have to gain or lose anything. I'm perfect and can quit working out.


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## Voyagersixone (Apr 29, 2021)

We all have days like that man! The big thing is you went!!

congrats on the great weigh in. Proud of you!


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## ftf (Apr 29, 2021)

"Great weigh in" lol. I love it.

Arm day!

Super sets
EZ curls   70x10 / 90x10 / 110x10 / 110x10
Tri press   Same as above.

Super sets
Hammer curls   45x10 / 50x8 / 50x10 
DB behind head   20x10 / 25x10 / 30x10

Super sets
CBL tri ext   70x10 / 80x10 / 70x10
Pull ups   10 / 10 / 6


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## ftf (Apr 30, 2021)

New covid restrictions at gym. Five people per zone.

Squats   135x10 for 5 sets
Straight leg DL's   135x10 for 3 sets
Leg Sled   270x10 / 270x10 / 360x10

My other movements were in other zones. That's a good excuse, right?


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## MrInsensitive (Apr 30, 2021)

We’ve had conversations about those machines. There’s a couple threads regarding it. 
you should be proud man. Really. 
I know those feelings too. I am SUPER agitated lately. Stuff just makes my heart pound that shouldn’t. Then I feel like I’m a POS. depression incoming. Lasts a few days sometimes just a bad day. 
The hardest thing for me, is to just let that shit go...


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## ftf (May 1, 2021)

MrInsensitive said:


> We’ve had conversations about those machines. There’s a couple threads regarding it.
> you should be proud man. Really.
> I know those feelings too. I am SUPER agitated lately. Stuff just makes my heart pound that shouldn’t. Then I feel like I’m a POS. depression incoming. Lasts a few days sometimes just a bad day.
> The hardest thing for me, is to just let that shit go...



Yeah it's wierd. Today I feel fine. There must be some correlation between my mood swings and my testosterone pins, I just have to watch for it. 
I do feel good about the body scan and the 14% body fat, but I still feel like a fat ass. Thanks for the encouragement MrInsensitive.


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## sfw509 (May 1, 2021)

Keep up the great work.

Start keeping notes about your mood/day. Nothing major, just a comment or two. You'll see any correlation really quickly.


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## ftf (May 3, 2021)

Week #10
Chest day
DB press   70x10 / 80x10 / 90x10 / 100x8      It hurt at 90 but I just wanted to lift the big weights. Am I an ego lifter too?
Dips   20 / 20 / 20
Incline Flies   20x10 / 25x10 / 30x10
Ab Wheel   15 / 15 / 15      Making gains!
Back Ext.   10 / 10 / 10

Work is gonna suck today, we have to load a wheel container.


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## Send0 (May 3, 2021)

I'm late to this log... the guys already covered this, but for reference my total test @500mg/week comes in at about 4200. So I would think a person with naturally high SHBG, or other similar thing that would effect test, would still be able to come in at 3000... but now I'm just speculating.

I recently had my own baseline IGF numbers pulled, and they are at 165. So I would say your GH is definitely legit. 

I am about to start 4iu this week (split am/pm), and if that goes well then I will bump to 5iu and then pull new blood work. I'll definitely let you know what my new IGF levels are, just for comparison sake.


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## ftf (May 4, 2021)

Back day.

Pullups   12 / 12 / 12 / 12
T-bar rows   95x10 / 95x10 / 95x10
Back ext.   10 / 12 / 12 / 12
lat pull downs @100lbs 15 / 12 / 12 / 14

I know I know, you're like ftf, what about deadlifts. My job is hard on my back and I just gotta take it easy sometimes. 

@Send0 I'll be watching for your igf-1 post. I'm glad you think my gh is good because, for me, it is expensive. I did try greytops but it was slow to dissolve and stayed cloudy and had soapy looking bubbles in the vial afterwards. I would rather pay for pharma.


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## ftf (May 5, 2021)

DB shoulder press   45x10 / 50x10 / 55x10 / 60x10    Same weight but more reps this time.
Plate raise for medial delt   45x15 / 45x15 / 45x15 / 45x15    Feel free to provide lift names if know them. 
Rear delt raise   20x10 / 20x10 / 20x10

Crunches and back extensions  `for the rest of my gym time, maybe 10 min's.


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## ftf (May 11, 2021)

Took a couple days off hoping to let my shoulder recover and went back yesterday for chest day. 

DB Press   70x10 / 80x10 / 90x10 / 100x9
Incline DB press   40x10 / 60x10 / 70x10

Now my left shoulder hurts. I feel like pulling my hair out (figuratively, because I'm bald). Every time I push myself I injure myself. So could it be the drugs? I never pressed 100's until recently and that makes me wonder is it me or the testosterone and anavar that can lift that weight. Am I working outside my ability?

So today I do legs because they don't hurt and I am paying for the gym membership.

Leg sled   90x10 / 180x10 / 270x10 / 360x10 / 360x10 / 270x10
Straight leg DL's   115x10 / 115x10 / 115x10 / 115x10
Back Ext   10 / 10 / 10 
Ab wheel   15 / 15 / 15


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## PZT (May 12, 2021)

maybe drop down in weight for some sets in the 15-20 range? They say your tendons and such cant keep up with muscles


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## ftf (May 17, 2021)

Back in the gym doing more reps with less weight.

Flat BB press   115x15 / 135x15 / 135x15 / 135x10 / 135x10 / 135x10 / 135x15 / 135x10 / 135x10 / 135x10
machine fly's   80x10 / 100x10 / 100x10 / 100x10



P.S. check out my new hooptie! 
https://ibb.co/NmZnQp1
https://ibb.co/dtmK6ZM
https://ibb.co/8zkMZ1n


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## PZT (May 17, 2021)

ftf said:


> Back in the gym doing more reps with less weight.
> 
> Flat BB press   115x15 / 135x15 / 135x15 / 135x10 / 135x10 / 135x10 / 135x15 / 135x10 / 135x10 / 135x10
> machine fly's   80x10 / 100x10 / 100x10 / 100x10
> ...


do the headlights still flip? lol


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## ftf (May 17, 2021)

PZT said:


> do the headlights still flip? lol


hell yes they do.


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## BrotherIron (May 17, 2021)

If you're having shoulder pain/ issues take a look at your training.  You should performing twice as much rowing/ pulling as you do pressing.  Also don't neglect your rear delts and supporting muscle groups.


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## ftf (May 18, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> If you're having shoulder pain/ issues take a look at your training.  You should performing twice as much rowing/ pulling as you do pressing.  Also don't neglect your rear delts and supporting muscle groups.



Upper back today.


Pull-ups   10 / 10 / 10 / 10
Cable rows   100x10 / 130x10 / 130x10 / 115x10
Chainsaws   65x10 / 70x10 / 70x10
T-bar Rows   85x10 / 85x10 / 85x10

Not anywhere near twice as much. Does this mean I'm out of balance? I'll work on increasing my pulling movements.


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## ftf (May 19, 2021)

I already know this workout is kind of random. I'm just staying in the gym and taking it easy on my shoulders.

Leg press   90x10 / 180x10 / 270x10 / 270x10 / 270x10

Back ext   15 / 15 / 15 
ab wheel   15 / 15 / 15

rear delt raise   20x10 / 20x10 / 20x10
ab machine   70x10 / 70x10 / 70x15

Stair machine  10 min about 150bps   and that was going slow. Not a great heart rate.


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## Dadbod103 (May 19, 2021)

ftf said:


> I know my LH is low and I am going to try to correct this with HCG as soon as it arrives.
> I got one question for all you muscle doctors. Does it look like my HGH and test are legit? Should my testosterone levels be "normal" at 500mg per week?



Kind of need to know your age and what your starting levels were to determine if your test is legit you are on the high end of normal but not sure where you started


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## Dadbod103 (May 19, 2021)

ftf said:


> One amp is 250mg .
> Now I'm really seeing the need for baseline blood work.



If you are getting actual glass ampules chances are it is real if its been a week since your last shot of 250mg of real test and you are 42 years old and your LH is being suppressed (sign you are taking exogenous hormones) then yes 718 sounds about right a week is a long time since your last shot and you are still high end of normal range when you LH suggest you are not producing yourself


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## ftf (May 20, 2021)

Arm day! I actually like doing arms, but I was running late, so I upped the intensity today.

Drop set for alternating curls   50's - 45's - 40's - 30's - 25's  /  x6 - x7 - x8 - x9 - x10   for 3 sets   Hell of a pump doing this. It hurts.

Skull crushers   70x12 / 70x12 / 70x12 / 70x12
Tri extensions   25x8 / 25x8 / 25x8 / 25x8


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## ftf (May 21, 2021)

Leg press   90x12 / 180x10 / 270x10 / 360x10 / 360x10 / 360x10 
Str leg DL   115x10 / 115x10 / 115x10

Hammer strength machines
iso leg ext   45x10 / 45x10 / 45x10
iso leg curl   35x10 / 35x10 / 35x10

12 weeks of test is over and I don't want to quit it. I understand this is a common sentiment around here. Maybe just one more little shot?


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## PZT (May 21, 2021)

I meal only 100-250 mg is basically off, right??? lol


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## Dadbod103 (May 21, 2021)

Don't quit why yoyo your gains stay on year round TRT its the better healthier way to do things


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## ftf (May 21, 2021)

PZT said:


> I meal only 100-250 mg is basically off, right??? lol



Lol. I wish, but no.  I need to get good baseline bloods and prepare for a good cycle with a stack. How long do I need to get normal after a 12 week Sust cycle?


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## PZT (May 21, 2021)

ftf said:


> Lol. I wish, but no.  I need to get good baseline bloods and prepare for a good cycle with a stack. How long do I need to get normal after a 12 week Sust cycle?



Not sure. Back in the day some people would say the same length of the cycle or even longer


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## Dadbod103 (May 21, 2021)

ftf said:


> Lol. I wish, but no.  I need to get good baseline bloods and prepare for a good cycle with a stack. How long do I need to get normal after a 12 week Sust cycle?




How old are you why are you cycling why not just go on trt?


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## Send0 (May 23, 2021)

ftf said:


> Lol. I wish, but no.  I need to get good baseline bloods and prepare for a good cycle with a stack. How long do I need to get normal after a 12 week Sust cycle?



Do you have the option to run something other than sustanon? As discussed earlier, it sure makes timing PCT a little annoying while also trying to balance not running too low on androgens due to the mix of short, medium, and long term esters in a single shot..

If you have the option, then I recommend you move to cypionate or enanthate.

In terms of how long to get normal, well let's break this down into PCT and full recovery (stability). The PCT will take 4-5 weeks, and the time until full recovery is anecdotally "time-on + PCT = time-off". So if you're doing a 12 week cycle with a 4 week PCT, then you will need to be off for 16 weeks... though if bloods indicate positive bio-markers that have been stable month to month it's possible you could get away with 12 weeks off.


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## Send0 (May 23, 2021)

To touch on the ending part of my previous response.

I like to get follow up blood work at the 8 week, and 12 week mark. Also, while I gave a very generalized time frame for how much time until reaching full recovery... the truth is that in practice, for myself, I don't actually rely on any calculated or generalized time frame. I let my blood work and bio markers indicate when my body is ready to blast again. If my bio markers are in range and show either improvement or stability between my 8 week and 12 week labs, then I consider this an indication that my body is ready to blast again.

I just wanted to clarify, because in truth the whole "time on = time off" is kind of a dumb way to go about things. For example... a person shouldn't blast halo for 4 weeks, and think they are ready to blast again after taking 4 weeks off. That would be a bit reckless to do blindly.


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## ftf (May 23, 2021)

Send0 said:


> To touch on the ending part of my previous response.
> 
> I like to get follow up blood work at the 8 week, and 12 week mark. Also, while I gave a very generalized time frame for how much time until reaching full recovery... the truth is that in practice, for myself, I don't actually rely on any calculated or generalized time frame. I let my blood work and bio markers indicate when my body is ready to blast again. If my bio markers are in range and show either improvement or stability between my 8 week and 12 week labs, then I consider this an indication that my body is ready to blast again.
> 
> I just wanted to clarify, because in truth the whole "time on = time off" is kind of a dumb way to go about things. For example... a person shouldn't blast halo for 4 weeks, and think they are ready to blast again after taking 4 weeks off. That would be a bit reckless to do blindly.



Thank you for this second post. I had this exact question in my head after reading the first part. "So I need to get labs twice after PCT? I wonder when." Like you read my mind buddy.


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## Send0 (May 23, 2021)

ftf said:


> Thank you for this second post. I had this exact question in my head after reading the first part. "So I need to get labs twice after PCT? I wonder when." Like you read my mind buddy.



That's just what I do... but some would argue I'm overkill on the blood work; to which I would concede they might be right. But I personally have the money to burn, and I hate leaving things to guess work.

Hopefully others will chime in and explain how they determine when they are ready to blast again. I think it would be good for you to see the varying approaches that people have.


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## Oldbastard (Jul 8, 2022)

rawdeal said:


> Lol, Mods are letting too many youngsters in here lately ... we need more old fvcks like "Moi."  Life begins to begin @ 50


57 still training and fighting oh I remember you great too see you here


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