# Obnoxious diet nonsense on the internet



## PillarofBalance (May 25, 2017)

I can't take it anymore. I usually keep my mouth shut about these things. But it's getting out of hand.

The straw that has broken my back. Reverse dieting.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you. How the **** do you expect to gain fat when all you are attempting to do is bring calories from a deficit to maintenance? This defies common sense. Yet this bitch can't type a single sentence without talking about reverse dieting. It's making me nuts!


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## NbleSavage (May 25, 2017)

Which bitch?


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## Beezy (May 25, 2017)

Wait... Who?
I can only assume that reverse dieting just means eating more.


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## Tx045 (May 25, 2017)

Beezy said:


> Wait... Who?
> I can only assume that reverse dieting just means eating more.



And no cardio


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## Tx045 (May 25, 2017)

Reverse dieting was termed bulking long ago


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## MrRippedZilla (May 25, 2017)

Don't get me ****ing started. 

I've had so many girls come to be post-show with amennorhea because these bullshit, trend following, coaches have them REVERSE dieting out of a show with nonsense promises of maintaining that level of conditioning year round. For those who don't understand, amennorhea refers to the lack of a menstrual cycle and this is *serious* - it leads to, among other things, loss of bone mineral density that may never return. 

These coaches put them in a reverse diet phase lasting MONTHS and their cycles NEVER return during that time. Instead they have to desperately search for knowledge elsewhere and it has taken me up to a *year* of working with some girls to get their menstrual cycles back. All the reverse dieting did was prolong the suffering and if that means potential permanent damage then it is more than reckless. It is ****ing retarded. 

And before anyone even tries to defend this level of bullshit, take a look at this case study that is shockingly similar to what I experience with my girls: Dietary intake, body composition, and menstrual cycle changes during competition preparation and recovery in a drug free figure competitor
- 20 week prep
- It took *10 weeks* to increase calories post prep
- It took *20 weeks *for the "reverse diet" to get her back to normal bf%
- It took *71 WEEKS(!) *for her menstrual cycle to return

So no, its ****ing retarded on every level and you do not deserve to be coaching anyone if you believe in this bullshit. In fact, if I see a single mention of it on any board I tend to go completely nuts because these idiots (male AND female coaches) have no idea what they're doing and deserve to be publicly embarrassed for the damage they are doing to these women.   

Yes, I'm triggered by this. Any coach who works hard to take care of their girls would be.


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## BigSwolePump (May 25, 2017)

Cmon bro. Are you telling me that adding calories while staying below maintenance won't add fat? Say it ain't so. 

Must have been reading one of those diet magazines on the rack of grocery stores. I've read that I can get a six pack in 3 weeks by adding one simple ingredient...


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## Beezy (May 25, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> Cmon bro. Are you telling me that adding calories while staying below maintenance won't add fat? Say it ain't so.
> 
> Must have been reading one of those diet magazines on the rack of grocery stores. I've read that I can get a six pack in 3 weeks by adding one simple ingredient...



By adding lemon slices to my water. Can't wait to see them pop!


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## Bro Bundy (May 25, 2017)

I like to reverse train


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## BigSwolePump (May 25, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> I like to reverse train


Yeah, I do those on my off days. It works great.


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## Beezy (May 25, 2017)

If that means beating off, you may be onto something.


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## Seeker (May 25, 2017)

I liked this thread


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## DieYoungStrong (May 25, 2017)

Cutting sucks!


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## ECKSRATED (May 25, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> I like to reverse train



The reverse train? Is that when a guy is banging u in the butt and another guy banging him in his butt?


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## Bro Bundy (May 25, 2017)

ECKSRATED said:


> The reverse train? Is that when a guy is banging u in the butt and another guy banging him in his butt?


Hahaha u pervert..I don't mind a finger now and then to spice things up


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## Flyingdragon (May 25, 2017)

Bro Bundy said:


> Hahaha u pervert..I don't mind a *cucumber* now and then to spice things up



:32 (20): Thats one way to get more veggies....


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## Georgia (May 26, 2017)

I googled reverse diet...holy shit there is a huge support system for this.

Are these the same people who masturbate into peanut butter filled socks?


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## ECKSRATED (May 26, 2017)

What's reverse dieting? I thought it was something u do after a show or cut and slowly add calories back. Is that wrong?


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## ToolSteel (May 26, 2017)

What about people who hire a respected coach for a diet and then attribute their results to some bullshit detox cleanse?


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## Beezy (May 26, 2017)

Are a lot of the guys in here coaches?


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## DF (May 26, 2017)

Reverse dieting?  WTF?  Hmm, the opposite of dieting. You damn kids & your fukd up terms! Lets throw Deload out there too...


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## MrRippedZilla (May 26, 2017)

ECKSRATED said:


> What's reverse dieting? I thought it was something u do after a show or cut and slowly add calories back. Is that wrong?



That's exactly what it is and yes, its wrong. 

Reverse dieting = slowly adding calories back, over a period of months, after a cut/show until you reach maintenance. 
It is a popular approach for competitors who obsess over the slightest weight gain (even if its just water) and live in a fantasy world of maintaining show-ready conditioning. This mentally applies to most competitors, especially women, so you can see why reverse dieting is popular - it feeds their psychological needs. 

The problem is, psychological needs *do not *dictate physiological realities. 
By reverse dieting all your really doing is staying in a deficit for an extended period of time and DELAYING your recovery. For men - hormone levels are not going to ****ing return to normal until you reach maintenance. For women - same thing plus the major ****ing issue of amenorrhoea, which takes a long time to recover anyway but by reverse dieting your making the situation worse.  Getting to maintenance is an absolute necessity for physical recovery and there is no way around this beyond drug use - that's why this reverse dieting bullshit is a major pain in my ass. 

This entire concept was created by Layne Norton and his butt buddies, who manage to make a shitload of cash through it by the way, and then a bunch of other "coaches" followed suite because they can't differentiate their assess from their mouths and must follow whatever is trending. Of course these "coaches" benefited greatly because it allowed them to generate more money by promoting "reverse diet plans" or "recovery diet phases" and making clients keep them hired for longer periods of time. Bunch of money hungry mother****ers. 

And then you have coaches like myself and POB who don't promote bullshit. 
I'll let POB speak for himself since I'm not sure how common a trend this is in the PLing world but when it comes to BBing its a major pain in my ass. I spend so long trying to help these folks, mostly women, recover from neglectful care while also trying *EDUCATE *them because THAT is how your supposed to deal with both the psychological needs + physiological realities. 
We spend, at most, 2 weeks getting back up to maintenance so that everything physical recovers as soon as possible and the rest of the time its mostly behavioral therapy focused on reducing the weight/aesthetic/food obsession and making it part of a bigger picture. Of course this is hard work and doesn't provide any short term results, which is why most coaches don't even bother with it - who cares about what your clients need when you can just line your pockets up with more cash right? ****ers. 

I know I'm going way off now but I cannot emphasize enough the importance of behavioral therapy for competitors. 
One of the reasons you don't see these behavioral issues with PLers as much is because you guys are focused on a HEALTHY long term goal - getting stronger, bodybuilding is focused on getting super shredded for 1 show, which is not a health or long term goal in any way shape or form.  
So I spend a lot of time of helping these folks creating a goal-setting mindset that isn't necessarily revolving around food/looks so that they have that feeling of control & freedom - 2 key attributes to avoiding eating disorders & body dysmorphia. The idea is to create mindful acceptance, habits involving taking positive action vs stress and, most importantly of all, eliminating the obsessive tendencies that run rampant in this community. 
This stuff is hard work but worth it in the long run. Not only do you see these clients grow, personal growth, but also develop much healthier relationships all round (with food, family, partners, life in general) and it *does* benefit their competitive careers too because you'll see most competitors tell you that their best preps are the least stressful - not a coincidental association. 

TL;DR - reverse dieting is bullshit created to make money for coaches and hurt (physically) clients. Now I'm off for a drink to calm my ass down.


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## snake (May 26, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> By reverse dieting all your really doing is staying in a deficit for an extended period of time and DELAYING your recovery.



*Zilla Cliff notes*
That's is all anyone needs to know.

Any guy that has dieted down to 8% bf or under knows there's no gains to be had there. Diet down for a show or your summer vacation, take some pics and get the fuuk out of Dodge.


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## PillarofBalance (May 26, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> That's exactly what it is and yes, its wrong.
> 
> Reverse dieting = slowly adding calories back, over a period of months, after a cut/show until you reach maintenance.
> It is a popular approach for competitors who obsess over the slightest weight gain (even if its just water) and live in a fantasy world of maintaining show-ready conditioning. This mentally applies to most competitors, especially women, so you can see why reverse dieting is popular - it feeds their psychological needs.
> ...



I am fortunate that I don't have to deal with this much. For me it's more of a problem when my guys don't eat enough.

Zilla you should see the woman that has me on fire about this. She has no muscle. None. I will pm a pic when I have a minute. It's just sad. And she is totally buying it


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## MrRippedZilla (May 26, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> I am fortunate that I don't have to deal with this much. For me it's more of a problem when my guys don't eat enough.
> 
> Zilla you should see the woman that has me on fire about this. She has no muscle. None. I will pm a pic when I have a minute. It's just sad. And she is totally buying it



Awaiting your PM. I want to know who brainwashed her into believing this stuff because that's all it takes with this mentality - they already want to buy into it, just need a bit of a push from a "guru". In fact, I should really make a thread of coaches who advocate reverse dieting so that people know who to stay the **** away from.


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## knightmare999 (May 26, 2017)

I can tell when Zilla is pissed because the word "guru" comes out!


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## ECKSRATED (May 26, 2017)

I meant was I wrong zilla but thank u for the explanation. Makes sense. As u can see I don't know much about dieting but I can't imagine being in a deficit for 5 or 6 months. Fukk that


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## widehips71 (May 26, 2017)

A few questions for Zilla.

1)  Is this more of a detriment for women due to the amenorrhea?
2)  Since you stated you need maintenance in order for hormone levels to recover, is this as much of a problem for enhanced, or TRT guys?  And..
3)  You say to reach maintenance within two weeks.  How quickly should one increase beyond that?

Thanks in advance!


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## MrRippedZilla (May 26, 2017)

widehips71 said:


> A few questions for Zilla.
> 
> 1)  Is this more of a detriment for women due to the amenorrhea?
> 2)  Since you stated you need maintenance in order for hormone levels to recover, is this as much of a problem for enhanced, or TRT guys?  And..
> ...



1) Yes but not due exclusively to the amenorrhoea (which causes BMD loss averaging 2% per year that may not be recovered). 
The fact is, women are psychologically more susceptible to buying into this type of bullshit for the same reasons that they're more susceptible to developing eating disorders - that's one of the main reasons why I focus on them primarily when discussing this stuff. 
You also have this energy availability cut off point that comes into effect and that tends to effect women more than men because they're smaller than us and kind of have to go beyond a certain threshold to get decent weekly results re fat loss. Basically - they have to cut harder, for longer, than us and that leads to bad things. 

2) It is *as much* of a problem? No. Is it still an issue? Depends - for TRT guys yes, for enhanced guys it depends on how enhanced we're talking. 

TRT will replace the low T, the anemia stuff (rbc, hct, etc), somewhat the IGF1 signalling, somewhat the low serotonin but that leaves the reduced T4>T3 conversion, insulin and a few other bits and pieces I won't get into for fear of losing anyone. Basically - TRT helps, but it doesn't cover everything. 

Now if we're talking a really enhanced dude - AAS, insulin, GH, T3, stimulants, something to control cortisol, etc then it becomes an insignificant problem. In other words, we might still be missing a few things but you shouldn't really notice. 
Of course the REAL answer is to get your hands on some leptin, which would address pretty much all of this in one go but 2 issues: 1) Good luck sourcing it and 2) good luck affording it (it's going to cost you $500 *per day*, GH looks cheap in comparison). 

3) Depends on the individual in question and their goals but in general, 0.5-1lb per week weight gain is a nice place to be. 
I say it depends because, for example, a bikini competitor may need to continue rapidly increasing calories because even at maintenance she'll be below that energy availability threshold I mentioned earlier. 
A guy who naturally walks around at 8-10% can take his sweet time increasing calories and may not need to be in so much of a rush as, say, a guy who walks around at 15%. The closer you can get to your comfort zone aka "set point" the better and that drives the rate of caloric increase. 
In terms of goals, a fitness model would stay in a completely different zone year round vs a traditional bodybuilder and on & on the contextual differences go. 

It is worth mentioning that most of that initial weight gain will be fat BUT that is perfectly fine. In fact, it is necessary to get us back to homeostasis as POB mentioned earlier. No one is designed to stay at 4-6% year round and those who try inevitably suffer the consequences.


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## Tx045 (May 27, 2017)

3j's got a new reverse diet package


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## PillarofBalance (May 27, 2017)

Tx045 said:


> 3j's got a new reverse diet package



3j has been irrelevant for years... cookie cutter diets and shit.


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## BigSwolePump (May 28, 2017)

Tx045 said:


> 3j's got a new reverse diet package


Pretty sure that 3J is aka Milton.


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## GearGoddess (May 28, 2017)

That's crazy you guys bring this up. I have been asked about reverse dieting recently and women are brutal believing in it. We have a such a hard time with bf reduction to begin with in comparison to you guys, now they are trying to throw in this mind f@#% of taking your time? A dude definitely came up with this theory. Lol. Being a female, going through extremes for my specific reasons, once accomplished and done, I want to be back to comfort level asap. Being in a deficit for so long or "reverse dieting" sucks because you feel like shit. Not only your hormones are out of whack but also no energy and most likely by doing this, you're stalling your metabolism and then storing extra. This is the dumbest concept I've heard. 

Zilla and POB , great posts! You two are pretty awesome and say it as it is. I love reading your stuff.


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## Cwary (May 29, 2017)

BigSwolePump said:


> Pretty sure that 3J is aka Milton.



Haha! I think you are on to something. I think Milton has about 20 different screen names. Trying to keep the traffic up I guess.


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