# Cutting stack WITH testosterone hormone therapy



## ColoradoJay (Apr 6, 2015)

Hi everyone -

I'll start off my claiming newb status - so that anything stupid I say can be held against me in that light.

I've been on bioidentical testosterone for about 4 months.  Program is cost effective ($350 for 6 months worth of implanted pellets) and seems to work well - my testosterone blood levels went from 250 to 1100.  Getting good strength gains in the gym, but I'm not loosing any fat.  I'd like to add something into the mix to help cut for an ~12 week cycle, going into summer.  After summer is over, I'll then look for a bulk cycle.

Questions:

1. I'm already on "T", but is a blood level of 1100 enough?  I'm told by the doc that 1100 effectively takes me from the levels I should have as a 39 year old down to the levels I probably had at 18.

2. I've been doing some reading, and I'm thinking about adding a 12 week Winstrol cycle to the mix.  Things I like about this - since it's my first real cycle (other than HGH I used to shoot back in my MMA days), it seems like a mild way to start.  It's also cheap, and seems readily available from some of the more reputable online places (from what I've read in multiple forums anyways, for what that's worth) like roidsseek.com.  Also, I'm doing a couple of 150km bike races this summer, and I understand this particular steroid may actually help performance in that regard.

My challenge in all this will be the lack of a network to poll on these types of things, hence why I'm here - to learn.  I'm an executive, and frankly, if anyone in my circles is doing this kind of stuff, they're keeping it on the serious down-low.  

Thanks in advance!  I look forward to contributing as I learn more.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 6, 2015)

A blood level of 1100 is very high for trt. Most docs are happy with 400 to 600 range.

So i dont think you have a hormone issue.  You have a diet issue.  Winstrol isn't magic and won't do much to help lean you out. Bodybuilders use it because it dries you not for fat loss. The only people that talk up the fat loss effects of Winstrol are people who don't know anything about it. 

You also don't necessarily know the reputable places.  Roidseek? No.  Take your time finding a source. Just because one has good reviews on some board doesn't mean those are legit reviews.  Often times the source pays the site to delete negative reviews and ban complainers.


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## ColoradoJay (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks for the info on Winstrol.  My diet is ok, I think - breakfast is typically two eggs, a couple of sausage links, and a 100 calorie protein shake.  Lunch is always salad and chicken.  Dinner varies, depending on what the wife is doing, but I always avoid the carbs at dinner.  I typically drink a workout activator before heading over to the gym at night, and then finish the night with another 100 calorie protein shake.  If anything, I probably don't drink enough water (maybe one or two glasses per day, on a good day).  I'm also bagging 30 minutes of intense cardio every night, followed by 45 mins to an hour of weights.  

Any other anabolics you'd recommend me doing some research on other than Winstrol?

Yeah, I sense that finding decent sources takes time.  I'm guilty of getting in and out of the gym like I'm on a mission too - don't socialize there.  Get in, turn on the head phones, work hard, get out.  Perhaps I should change that up a bit and take some time to socialize.


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## anewguy (Apr 6, 2015)

Welcome.  You should try to log all of your food intake.  Sounds to me like (based on your size of course) you are severely under eating.  Check out an app like Lose it! for your phone or My Fitness Pal.  Start with making sure your caloric intake and macros are good for your age and stats, then make sure your training is good, then think about turning to AAS.


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## ColoradoJay (Apr 6, 2015)

Awesome - I just checked out those apps.  I'm definitely going to do that.  Yeah, I'm 5'10.5", weighing 210 right now and 20-22%BF, depending on the scale.


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## snake (Apr 7, 2015)

Ok, POB beat me to the TT number comment but I can not agree more. Bloods at 1100  would have most Dr. pulling back. Truthfully at that number I would expect you to see some fat loss. You'll hear that test doesn't help you lose weight but then why is a belly a sign of low T? There's other factors like having more energy to get off the couch and once you see results, you'll put down the bag of chips so it is dynamic.

Take a look at anavar and see what you think. It may or may not be what you're looking for. 

Another thing, you are getting your E2 checked with your blood work right?


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 7, 2015)

ColoradoJay said:


> Thanks for the info on Winstrol.  My diet is ok, I think - breakfast is typically two eggs, a couple of sausage links, and a 100 calorie protein shake.  Lunch is always salad and chicken.  Dinner varies, depending on what the wife is doing, but I always avoid the carbs at dinner.  I typically drink a workout activator before heading over to the gym at night, and then finish the night with another 100 calorie protein shake.  If anything, I probably don't drink enough water (maybe one or two glasses per day, on a good day).  I'm also bagging 30 minutes of intense cardio every night, followed by 45 mins to an hour of weights.
> 
> Any other anabolics you'd recommend me doing some research on other than Winstrol?
> 
> Yeah, I sense that finding decent sources takes time.  I'm guilty of getting in and out of the gym like I'm on a mission too - don't socialize there.  Get in, turn on the head phones, work hard, get out.  Perhaps I should change that up a bit and take some time to socialize.



Don't take this the wrong way but at first glance your diet kinda sucks.

Up the water intake and cut out the protein shakes. Just eat food. This will pay off in the long run.  And don't be scared of carbs.  Eating adequate carbs will help fuel better training sessions.  Just watch your overall calorie intake.

A typical day for me looks like this. And I am currently on a slow cut.

Breakfast
8 eggs
4 slices toast or 2 cups oats
2 cups berries
Gallon of coffee or so

Lunch
6 to 7 ounces of meat. Usually pork loin or some kind of lean beef
2 cups rice 
Gag on some nasty veg
1 greek yogurt

Snack time
Poptarts
16oz milk

Pre workout 
1 package graham crackers
Couple handfuls of beef jerky (homemade)

Post workout (about 45 min after training)
Chipotle burrito with 2 meats beans and rice

Before bed
Ice cream or frozen yogurt. About 1 cup.  Ok more like 2 don't ****ing judge me...

All food
 No supplements 

Eating actually food gives you way more control over your weight.  I weigh a lot more than you so you don't want portions like mine. My point in showing you this is that I eat a shit ton of carbs and have no problem losing fat.


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## ColoradoJay (Apr 7, 2015)

Timely call-out on the E2, actually.  I had a conversation with a different test hormone replacement doctor today - one that uses injections rather than the bioidentical pellets.  They require you to come in every week, and they check your E2 every week.  My doc - hasn't checked my E2 at all.  They did require that I go on a non-prescription supplement called DIM that removes free-estrogen from the blood stream, "just in case", but they have never checked my E2 level.  They did check my T level after a month, added more pellets (because I was only at 500), and then checked again a month after that.  Honestly, I don't like the pellets - I had a reaction that only one in about every 100 people have - but I have two really large, hard lumps on my ass where the pellets are.  They say they'll go away after about a year - but I'm not going to deal with that every 6 months.  I'm going to switch over to the other doc that uses injections and constantly checks levels of T and E2 via blood work.


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## ColoradoJay (Apr 7, 2015)

Appreciate the diet feedback Pillar.  I don't take it the wrong way - I'm here for the input/feedback, so I appreciate it!


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## Paolos (Apr 7, 2015)

PillarofBalance said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but at first glance your diet kinda sucks.
> 
> Up the water intake and cut out the protein shakes. Just eat food. This will pay off in the long run.  And don't be scared of carbs.  Eating adequate carbs will help fuel better training sessions.  Just watch your overall calorie intake.
> 
> ...



CJ POB is right you gotta eat sir! I'm ridiculously anal but I firmly believe you must lay your diet out in advance otherwise how the hell you are
you going to shop and eat to your plan if you dont have one? I will admit I can't and don't lay out my own diet. I pay a coach to do that.
We have some good people that will do it for you and its worth the $$. Attached is 1 day of food prep for me and the old lady. 16 meals
and the black containers are mine (roughly 1.5 lbs each). I drink 1- 1.5 gallons of water a day.


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## Cobra Strike (Apr 7, 2015)

ColoradoJay said:


> Thanks for the info on Winstrol.  My diet is ok, I think - breakfast is typically two eggs, a couple of sausage links, and a 100 calorie protein shake.  Lunch is always salad and chicken.  Dinner varies, depending on what the wife is doing, but I always avoid the carbs at dinner.  I typically drink a workout activator before heading over to the gym at night, and then finish the night with another 100 calorie protein shake.  If anything, I probably don't drink enough water (maybe one or two glasses per day, on a good day).  I'm also bagging 30 minutes of intense cardio every night, followed by 45 mins to an hour of weights.
> 
> Any other anabolics you'd recommend me doing some research on other than Winstrol?
> 
> Yeah, I sense that finding decent sources takes time.  I'm guilty of getting in and out of the gym like I'm on a mission too - don't socialize there.  Get in, turn on the head phones, work hard, get out.  Perhaps I should change that up a bit and take some time to socialize.



Dont socialize in the gym. Hit it hard and leave. Socializing will hinder your gains and your muscle destruction. The whole idea behind ripping your muscles is that its best to have them full of blood (the pump)...when you talk you lose the pump.


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 7, 2015)

Cobra Strike said:


> Dont socialize in the gym. Hit it hard and leave. Socializing will hinder your gains and your muscle destruction. The whole idea behind ripping your muscles is that its best to have them full of blood (the pump)...when you talk you lose the pump.


This is why I love powerlfiting. We take like 5 minutes between sets on high intensity days and start ****ing off. 

Also the pizza


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