# How one "ester" effects user differently (real science)



## Vision (Apr 20, 2018)

Recently I've noticed the topic about the usage of 1 particular ester yielding different results in users..Or, others claiming one ester to be Superior to the next..This is all individual based on ones static system of checks/loops, no two individuals are the same..This is why people argue that cypionate is much more potent than enanthate, as this is a fragile argument at best and makes little sense, as your muscles/receptors are only recognizing free bio hormone no matter what the ester that was utilized to deploy the parenting hormone!

*These are great questions & a worthwhile topic, as there's some real truth behind this;*

Let's begin with the expression of a single hormones yielding an opposite effect - rather than a positive "smooth" response to the hormone as some individuals claim/experience..An appropriate example to begin with would be that of an alcoholic...

*Why? Because of Genetics, I'll explain! *

Everyone posses different gene expression,with enzymes,protein bonds,and so on..(Enzymes are known to catalyze more then 5k biochemical types)..Yet our bodies posses inhibitors and activator molecules that can greatly effect the activity, by increasing or decreasing hormonal actives..Now, that of an acholohic,it's a genetic predisposition (same applies for particular endocrines with sensitive users concerning AAS) in which one posses a group of particular enzymes that metabolize alcohol much differently compared to other individuals, thus the effects will be much greater, and more detrimental in some individuals over the next..(Different metabolization)

*Now, let's compare this to the hormones!*

*(Example)*_* Testosterone can have 3 roles*_ *
1) Being testosterone as it's primary function..
2) Converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite/androgen)..
3)Converting into estrogen 

Here you see this effect differs greatly by individual instances, as genetics, age or even ethnicity (in some cases), or even sex may be a factor, whether one has a greater presence of aromatase enzymes, or even a deficiency.. Hormones/esters have various biosynthetic pathways occurring in the endorcrine,some either or before reaching their target tissue(to control plasma levels or active compounds),or at times after termination of their actions (inactivation and elimination)..However many of hormones and esters are metabolized within their target tissue, in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms serve to regulate the specificity and the amplitude of the hormonal response..

This is why "singular ester" hormone treatment is NOT designed as a one size fits all therapy... 

Just an FYI: There's two main types of enzymes that act in the cleaving process of the ester in which activate the hormone...These 2 particular "Enzymes" are esterases & hydrolysate.. These come along and cleave pieces of the ester off the hormone, thereby releasing the active chemical (parenting steroid hormone) and allowing it to do its job (ultimately muscle building/tissue via protein synthesis, positive nitrogen balance and so on )...Now in the bloodstream which testosterone and blood born nutrients and substances circulate is recognized as the "medium". These enzymes circulate in the medium and directly affect the release of "active" hormone in the bloodstream by ester cleavage, thus exerting different expression per individuals, trigger a chute of cellular interaction at receptor sites that will differ from one to the next..
​
People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the ester and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events..

This is why the "same/singular hormone ester" effects people differently, because there's numerous ways a hormone can yield different effects..So, depending on which transcription factors are present different genes will be transcribed in response...Thereby the reason some individuals tend to bloat and others do NOT, as some can run 250mgs of Test and begin to see signs of fluid retention or edema exert in the circular system, or particular regions of the body..Yet, there's individuals that can utilize 1000mgs of Test and remain dry..Of course diet permitting.. (but this article's about biosynthesis, and not diet) 

Regards,
Vision*


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## Viduus (Apr 20, 2018)

The text is coming up black on black for me. Can you change that if you can still edit it? (Or a mod please)


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## Vision (Apr 20, 2018)

I apologize, maybe it's the interface that I'm using..Not sure what the web host sets it at..I'll see what I can do!


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## DF (Apr 20, 2018)

PSL much???? :32 (8):


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## Jin (Apr 20, 2018)

So, i shouldn't just stick with test c, but try different esters because I may respond better to another?


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## Vision (Apr 20, 2018)

Jin said:


> So, i shouldn't just stick with test c, but try different esters because I may respond better to another?


That's the million dollar question... Different strokes for different folks..Some guys swear hands down superiority with one ester compared to the next, different immune responses..


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 20, 2018)




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## bplebo75 (Apr 21, 2018)

Vision said:


> That's the million dollar question... Different strokes for different folks..Some guys swear hands down superiority with one ester compared to the next, different immune responses..


I can honestly say I dont feel a difference between Cyp and E. I'm on E now so maybe I feel a difference in 2 weeks,  only been on E for about 3 weeks but went from 200 of cyp a week to 400 of e a week I'll keep it posted.


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## BigSwolePump (Apr 21, 2018)

So esters build muscle now? Interesting


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## Vision (Apr 21, 2018)

BigSwolePump said:


> So esters build muscle now? Interesting


The response to the parenting hormone that is esterfied is what will provide that effect.


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## herrsauce (Apr 22, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


>




He provides no references, because bullshit and half-understood concepts don't translate into AMA or APA format well.


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## ToolSteel (Apr 23, 2018)

I fkn hated english class


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## Intense (Apr 23, 2018)

Wait, your sig says off duty. Have I been swindled?


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## Jin (Apr 23, 2018)

Intense said:


> Wait, your sig says off duty. Have I been swindled?



Ha. Exactly.


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## RISE (Apr 24, 2018)

Its no secret that gear affects users differently, but its disingenuous and douchey to label it "real science" and then not post sources.  Especially since I don't believe there has been a large enough study done (if any at all) that looks at esters and variable gene expressions that shows significant proof of what you are implying.


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## Vision (Apr 24, 2018)

RISE said:


> Its no secret that gear affects users differently, but its disingenuous and douchey to label it "real science" and then not post sources.  Especially since I don't believe there has been a large enough study done (if any at all) that looks at esters and variable gene expressions that shows significant proof of what you are implying.


If you call it douchey. I challenge you to find PROOF to discredit it, find any resource that says otherwise...  please, with all due respect, enough with the spoon feeders here...  you all have the ability here to research...Its douchey to call one douchey to NOT even do your own research,,, see what Im saying?  

if this is whats being said, than people here need to stop giving ANY cycle advise with any dosages..

people dont always need a reference to know something works...    do you need a reference that turning on your left turn signal before turning is not only a good idea in so many ways? or are you handing down experience?

left turn signals is "real driving etiquette".... dont believe me? research it!

read about esters people, read how they work..Im not some noob or new members of the grind, I have taken all the information that I know, and compiled it it one,, that can still yield it scientific facts , in lieu of the childish name calling, be a better man, and research, people arent gonna spoon food you, its uo to you to research and research, my job as a member is to just provide you with information that you may find useful, and no where does it say "USE MY ADVISE ONLY", take it for face value and look it up... You will NOT get  a spoon!  come on my brutha's we should all know this, why is its some complicated just HERE? drop the noob hazing and pick up your google tab, you owe it to yourself!

TRT at 125mg works well for the majority orfTRT clients (thats been proven as real science and therapeutically protocols, do you need a reference?)... see what I'm saying... 

most reads are mine, or have been re-written in maybe a small portion for a better understanding while removing data that was inaccurate but had a valid pint in one phrase, or possible a paragraph used by an other compiled into mine, hardly anything you see around is original.. 


Where the reference for this sticky? or we should just do what he says? you see what Im saying     if something doesn't look to your liking, research it and challenge it, to make some over the top challenge, the research is YOUR responsibility! 
https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/3728-First-Cycle-All-You-Need-to-Know


Im NOT new to the game or approaches, this is not a one size fits all way of life, approached will vary, find what works for you... Stop with the sarcasm , it looks lame, and do your
research!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I seen fads come and go, I'll provide what is tested tried and true..

I was called out my a user attempting to dismantle my credibility in my intro, yet just last month he tried tren for his first time.. I was conversing kits back in the 90's, I mean really, I'm not here to spot hoppla, and nowhere does my info say "trust me" or do what I say".. its merely an educational read like anything else in life..


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## Viduus (Apr 24, 2018)

My feedback has always been meant in a positive way so I’ll try one last time. Nobody disputes the value of experience and annocdotal information. Nobody disputes the value of scientifically researched/sourced facts. We just like to know which one is which.

You’ve only had to feel with it because you’re trying to post valuable information instead of one line responses. As you mentioned, you e only had to deal with it here but that might not be a bad thing. UGBB is a bit different and the members try hard to keep integrity around here. (We’re dedicated to that, ass eating and FDs random fetishes)

The whole point of sourcing information that’s presented as long articles/facts is so we don’t hVe to go reresearch to see if it’s real. Obviously those who care checkout the sources but it’s nice to know you can trust the info to whatever extent anyone can. Otherwise it’s a full time job sorting through the huge pile of crap people post. (i.E orals heal the liver)

Try the UG way, it might end up being that refreshing break you were looking for.


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## Vision (Apr 24, 2018)

Viduus said:


> My feedback has always been meant in a positive way so I’ll try one last time. Nobody disputes the value of experience and annocdotal information. Nobody disputes the value of scientifically researched/sourced facts. We just like to know which one is which.
> 
> You’ve only had to feel with it because you’re trying to post valuable information instead of one line responses. As you mentioned, you e only had to deal with it here but that might not be a bad thing. UGBB is a bit different and the members try hard to keep integrity around here. (We’re dedicated to that, ass eating and FDs random fetishes)
> 
> ...


My dude V, Don't think for one second that I DON'T see or RECOGNIZED all methodical and well structured and regarded approach, but also keep in mind, don't spoon feed people.. People will read something and take that as well if this study says this or that well known member of the endocrine society says that its just be real, studies will continuously contradicting one an other... Research is pivotal.. I'll Obey and assist where I can with cross references, but if I can't, its because I gathered info in bits and pieces that supports the initial thread along with bro-science and anecodote reports.. The truth of the matter is, there's more user first hand experience vs clinical data when it pertains to AAS, because at the end of the day we are our very owe science experience that relay on one and other for sound advise (which should be taken into consideration and research before applied into ones protocol).. All use brothers/sisters have is limited data, broscience and tested/tried and true methods.. It's not a one size fits all way of life..

The truth is, we're using drugs at superphysiological serum levels that are far from therapeutic, in which most studies have used therapeutically dosages (90% of the time)..
So where does the truth start, and where does the actual authentic science begin?

collections ,collections, research, and more collection upon that research, it's all we have at the end of the say 

I wish we had more, but there;s no funding for such studies, or a need to do so, so we have each other to go on... Always take what you read lightly, believe half, and research the other half!

If we had it our way, things would be different in this lifestyle, but long as there's Media and WADA out-there, its like shooting a target blindfolded when seeking approval!

With that said: Where is the new generation of Patrick Arnold's, and where's the future heading with AAS?

The myth, the man, the legend, Mr.Patrick Arnold..He is one of the sole pioneers in sport medicine/designer steroids.. 

For those that don't know,Patrick Arnold is an organic chemist who is renowned in the field of performance enhancement and sports supplements. Patrick first hit the public eye in the late 1990’s when he introduced androstenedione (“andro”) to the market place. Andro became widely known after it was linked to Mark Maguire in 1998 – the year he broke the seasonal home run record. Patrick later went on to develop several other “prohormone” supplements such as 4-AD and 1-AD. 1-AD was considered by many to be the most effective and most popular prohormone ever developed.


Patrick is unique in the supplement industry because not only does he discover and introduce novel ingredients, but he uses his skills in organic synthesis to develop manufacturing processes for these ingredients. Together with his business partner Lakhan Boodram, he actually carries out the commercial production of many of these ingredients and maintains his own strict quality oversight.
Despite all these accomplishments, Patrick may be best known as the man who developed the designer steroids that were behind the Balco scandal. *The most widely known of these steroids was tetrahydrogestrinone, also known as THG or “The Clear”. Patrick was convicted for his role in the Balco scandal and served prison time.


In addition to Patrick’s work with prohormones and steroids he also is credited with introducing many successful ingredients to the supplement market place such as ipriflavone, 1,3-dimethylamylamine (i.e. Geranamine®), and phenibut.
Patrick currently produces products for the nutritional supplement company E-pharm Nutrition, as well as for Prototype Nutrition. He continues to be perhaps the number one driving force in the advancement of performance enhancing nutritional supplementation (Copied biography)..

With this said on one of the greatest who paved the way for designer steroids/supplementation, where is the future heading and where are the aspiring chemists who dare to defy the implemented principals that have been set in motion by WADA that plagued the competitive world and BB'ing lifestyle for decades?

We're past due for some ground braking discoveries, or at least one that we can enjoy for a moment in time before UNESCO lobbies against it..

What would you like to see happen in the world of sport medicine and AAS?

**Referance *http://patrickarnoldblog.com/about/


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## RISE (Apr 24, 2018)

Why the phuck would i waste my time finding sources to dispute yours if you cant even post ones that prove your point?  And you call me lazy.  

Take a step back and look at this from our point of view.  You havent been here a month and you post this "real science" article that has absolutely no sources and just expect us to suck your dick like you're some smart mother fuker?  And then call us lazy?  That shit might have worked over at ology where you posted this exact same post 2 years ago in regards to PIP.  See, i did my homework.  Now why dont you take that dick slinging bs out of here back to ology and continue repping scam sites like europharma.


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## Intense (Apr 24, 2018)

Me and Vision are bros for life, and when I say bro I mean never my bro you fags. Only I can half read his posts and get confused easily. Vision is his own source! So back off before I pin some tren in my cock and take a few halo enemas and ****ing eat you all.














jk, tren and halo both give me pretty bad indigestion, and no one likes acid reflux. Does prevacid even work?  So Maybe I'll just keyboard warrior your asses for the time being.


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## Vision (Apr 24, 2018)

RISE said:


> Why the phuck would i waste my time finding sources to dispute yours if you cant even post ones that prove your point?  And you call me lazy.
> 
> Take a step back and look at this from our point of view.  You havent been here a month and you post this "real science" article that has absolutely no sources and just expect us to suck your dick like you're some smart mother fuker?  And then call us lazy?  That shit might have worked over at ology where you posted this exact same post 2 years ago in regards to PIP.  See, i did my homework.  Now why dont you take that dick slinging bs out of here back to ology and continue repping scam sites like europharma.


first off you fowl mouth twit, ology is a joke,and a hole in the ground, I haven't been there in well over a year maybe more.. it was once a fun place I said I liked it before it went down the tube. Ology and it's admin are nothing more than scammers! 

secondly, I hardly call that homework that you did... I challenge you to proven anything I posted to be WRONG information when it pertains to chemistry and the functionality of how esters may work differently in some users.. But I expect nothing more than an insult as your rebuttal, something not productive..You have the ability at your finger tips to do much better with yourself, but of all things you choose to be toxic,crude mouth, non-discrediting half-wit..lol

a sharp tongue is no indication of a keen mind..  Such a crime that I posted info about how esters may work differently in users and you loss your mind? Really, seriously...Normal health adults wouldn't even waste their time with even your first opening line..

and where is the reference about me wishing to have my Johnson tubed?

All you are at this point, is that fat loud mouth guy in the back of the crowd taunting, hooting and hollering,because there's a group of like minded before him that may be encouraged by the seed planting that you're spouting, in hopes to see further action..

find where I have broke forum rules, or disrespected a member, or this community for that matter, if you're so hot an bothered by what I have to post.. what are you fearful of?

I merely brought a topic to the community that I have shared in many places with absolutely zero issues, but then there's YOU..lol.. its just a topic bub, just a conversation started, so take a pill and reeeeeeeeelax! (plays soft music) 

I hope you feel better and have and amazing day!


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## RISE (Apr 24, 2018)

Keep typing out of your ass.  If you read my first post, it starts out with "it's no secret that gear affects users differently", which means i actually fuking agree with you, dumbass.  You can sit here and say my bad mouthing is somehow relevant to how stupid I am, yet i am still not the idiot that starts a topic called "real science" and has yet provided ANY studies or sources to back up what they have stated.  If you are going to start an intellectual thread, you need to show the credentials.  Its not our job to do it.  That's just basics, man.


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## RISE (Apr 24, 2018)

Intense said:


> Me and Vision are bros for life, and when I say bro I mean never my bro you fags. Only I can half read his posts and get confused easily. Vision is his own source! So back off before I pin some tren in my cock and take a few halo enemas and ****ing eat you all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



....what??


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## Intense (Apr 24, 2018)

RISE said:


> ....what??


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## Vision (Apr 24, 2018)

RISE said:


> Keep typing out of your ass.  If you read my first post, it starts out with "it's no secret that gear affects users differently", which means i actually fuking agree with you, dumbass.  You can sit here and say my bad mouthing is somehow relevant to how stupid I am, yet i am still not the idiot that starts a topic called "real science" and has yet provided ANY studies or sources to back up what they have stated.  If you are going to start an intellectual thread, you need to show the credentials.  Its not our job to do it.  That's just basics, man.


It's labeled real science because it is! dur..  no different than ( Look at this jeep - its a real vehicle )  is the jeep not a real vehicle?  is the info I posted about esters NOT REAL SCIENCE? 

If I didn't manufacture the illustration and gather the information over years, than who did? (sips coffee)

I see nothing but fear radiating from you, you fail to possess any real intellect and resort to name calling in which you think it's further supporting your narrative, but it's simply making you look toxic, and are you naturally mediocre or are you giving it your best effort? It must really be an interesting reductive discipline and point of view that you seem to possess, I'll try it some time..If it doesn't hurt!

And good lord may someone please come forward and assist this member RISE, the situation here in this thread is dire, not to mention he appears disorientated..With that RISE, off is the direction in which I suggest you go fornicate.. Have a good day!


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 24, 2018)

Vision said:


> If you call it douchey. I challenge you to find PROOF to discredit it, find any resource that says otherwise...  ..



That's not how this works. You make the claim you provide the evidence. I might actually just go thru and remove your threads. These kinds of posts might work on a board of idiots with no actually knowledge or education but it will not fly here.


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## RISE (Apr 24, 2018)

No one is coming to your rescue bc we all know what you're trying to do.  You obviously either
 a. Took the time to go back and copy and paste something you posted 2 years ago on ology and came here to create a thread about it.
B.  Have these "scientific" ramblings saved to your computer for you to post randomly to sound smart.  Yet for some reason you saved the ramblings but never saved the sources or data to back it up.  Noob mistake.  But more likely bc you're just pushing your opinion.

Whether i believe you or not, you obviously have an agenda here.  This is not ology, you say you dont like ology then start acting like an individual with a brain and stop acting like we're a bunch of idiots who get fooled by smart talk and big words.  Back up your claims.  Theres not a single scientific journal, book, data sheet, you name it, that doesnt have sources showing proof of what they are claiming. You took the time to post a random ass link about Patrick Arnold but couldnt find the time to post something of substance.


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## Vision (Apr 24, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> That's not how this works. You make the claim you provide the evidence. I might actually just go thru and remove your threads. These kinds of posts might work on a board of idiots with no actually knowledge or education but it will not fly here.


Do whatever you feel fit for your community... I promise you the world is not flat, and there's some who's-who out there in many much larger communities that share the same point of views, but this is your forum, and you'll run it to your liking as that's your prerogative.. Nothing I did was with bad intent or disrespect, the only ill intent was the welcoming from YOURSELF from day one and a small selected few..The reflection surely is not on me at this point!

Have it..


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 24, 2018)

Vision said:


> Do whatever you feel fit for your community... I promise you the world is not flat, and there's some who's-who out there in many much larger communities that share the same point of views, but this is your forum, and you'll run it to your liking as that's your prerogative.. Nothing I did was with bad intent or disrespect, the only ill intent was the welcoming from YOURSELF from day one and a small selected few..The reflection surely is not on me at this point!
> 
> Have it..



I will never understand why guys like you get so butthurt when asked for the source of information you post. That's just ****ing weird.


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## knightmare999 (Apr 25, 2018)

Vision said:


> If you call it douchey. I challenge you to find PROOF to discredit it, find any resource that says otherwise...




Bigfoot is real.  You dont think so? Prove it. 

That is not how science works.

You're forgiven for claiming that the garbage you reposted is science as you obviously have no concept of what science is. 

Typically, a hypothesis is formed based on observations, data, etc.  That hypothesis is tested and analyzed, and the findings are published.  Findings are peer reviewed, studied, and attempts are made to reproduce the findings.  If findings are valid and consistent, they may lead to a theory.  A scientific theory is the pinnacle of scientific knowledge in an area.  Evolution is "only" a theory? So is gravity.

I hope this helps you think twice before stealing articles and/or fabricating hypotheses before posting any more douche-baggery, you douche.


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## Vision (Apr 25, 2018)

PillarofBalance said:


> I will never understand why guys like you get so butthurt when asked for the source of information you post. That's just ****ing weird.


and I'll never understand why guys like you that are suppose to micro manage communities like yours has less of an amount of active members than I do at simply just one of my sub-forums (which I choose not to say for who, where or why, as promised), I'm talking threads/post counts in the thousands and tens of thousands in just a mere small section of  vast community, not including the entire hosted forum which would closely resemble that of the entire continental US, making your community look like the state of Rode Island.. Not an insult, because I chose to join here with great intentions and once "had" high expectations. If you would have had enough restraint and patience you would have seen more threads supported with sources credited which I'm confident enough to say that "some" of the members in your community would have appreciated and possibly made some take home notes, much like I did.. However, For the simple one thread in question, I have none to provide, again, I will tell you the crow is black, let me hear it from you once more how the crow is white! I sure hope you have thick skin if you can dish it out, take one on the chin yourself..No need to flex or challenge, I have nothing to prove.. The only sore butts I see are a selected few who simply just can't except the fact that I don't have any source to give for this particular multi compilation of information and some which is also MINE..Why does this not register? It's not that hard or even a big deal to continuously make a fuss over..

If your job is to police the community for source credited articles, than please don't allow me to waste anymore of your valuable time in this thread, because you have a shit ton of work cut out for you, I see a ton of information that's cited by members as feedback in the archives/pages for informational posts that lack any cross references..In their defense, do they even recall where they read it, or is it simply embedded in their minds from something they read?!?!

Please have the common decency to at least recognize that I've been modest enough and shown respect and I have done nothing that warranted the opposite in return..You want positive and constructive traffic in your community, than lead by example!


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## Jin (Apr 25, 2018)

Our community is relatively small. You are right. For many people this isn't the board for them because they dont want to hear what we have to say. 

Lots of folks just don't fit in here. You're probably one of those folks. 

I've looked at many of the other boards but I'm a member of only one. The amount of ignorance and plain stupidity on other boards is astounding. 

I'm not sure why you're even bothering with us. You supposedly are here to relax and be off duty. Seemingly neither of those things are happening.

And you have some balls to talk about our Admin "policing" the community. Your home board Admin doesn't know enough about lifting or AAS to censor for unsound pseudoscience. Additionally people get banned there for speaking ill about your employer.

This is a no BS board. Period. Like I said, you probably won't fit in here.


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## Mythos (Apr 25, 2018)

Thanks but we'd rather see the original peer reviewed research and interpret it ourselves. (that is if peer reviewed research is the source of your assertions)


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## stonetag (Apr 25, 2018)

knightmare999 said:


> Bigfoot is real.  You dont think so? Prove it.
> 
> That is not how science works.
> 
> ...


Correct!!!!


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## PillarofBalance (Apr 25, 2018)

Vision said:


> and I'll never understand why guys like you that are suppose to micro manage communities like yours has less of an amount of active members than I do at simply just one of my sub-forums (which I choose not to say for who, where or why, as promised), I'm talking threads/post counts in the thousands and tens of thousands in just a mere small section of  vast community, not including the entire hosted forum which would closely resemble that of the entire continental US, making your community look like the state of Rode Island.. Not an insult, because I chose to join here with great intentions and once "had" high expectations. If you would have had enough restraint and patience you would have seen more threads supported with sources credited which I'm confident enough to say that "some" of the members in your community would have appreciated and possibly made some take home notes, much like I did.. However, For the simple one thread in question, I have none to provide, again, I will tell you the crow is black, let me hear it from you once more how the crow is white! I sure hope you have thick skin if you can dish it out, take one on the chin yourself..No need to flex or challenge, I have nothing to prove.. The only sore butts I see are a selected few who simply just can't except the fact that I don't have any source to give for this particular multi compilation of information and some which is also MINE..Why does this not register? It's not that hard or even a big deal to continuously make a fuss over..
> 
> If your job is to police the community for source credited articles, than please don't allow me to waste anymore of your valuable time in this thread, because you have a shit ton of work cut out for you, I see a ton of information that's cited by members as feedback in the archives/pages for informational posts that lack any cross references..In their defense, do they even recall where they read it, or is it simply embedded in their minds from something they read?!?!
> 
> Please have the common decency to at least recognize that I've been modest enough and shown respect and I have done nothing that warranted the opposite in return..You want positive and constructive traffic in your community, than lead by example!



No I don't think we will drop standards to grow. Not interested. If you don't have sources all you had to do was state clearly these are your personal observations and or experience. Instead you keep referring to things as the truth or science when no scientific method other than simple observation was used to draw your conclusions. That's not good enough for us for most things.

You also should keep in mind that you came here with a history of repping for PSL so the moment you arrived we are already questioning every single thing you say or do here.

So.we don't trust you and you can provide the source of your information. Please tell me more about how appreciative I should be that you have graced this teeny tiny little board with your presence.


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## Mythos (Apr 25, 2018)

This guy is how I imagine the legendary Tiller was. (before my time.. I come from the era of Fruity and that that yam root dude).


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## RISE (Apr 25, 2018)

Less retards = smaller boards. REAL Science.


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## Maijah (Apr 25, 2018)

This is terrible, vision beat feet. Noone here wants to hear your bullshit. Go somewhere else where you can claim guru. You are completely irrelevant


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## knightmare999 (Apr 26, 2018)

Mythos said:


> This guy is how I imagine the legendary Tiller was. (before my time.. I come from the era of Fruity and that that yam root dude).



I missed out on Tiller and the opportunity of Tillacle labs, but the word "labs" actually relates to science so I assume he's a more credible source.

Vision specializes in crypto-biology, which I'll admit is an emerging field and not as established as snake oil sales development or multi-level marketing management.  I would say Vision innovated if it wasn't pretty clear he just plagiarized a message written in poop from the walls of an insane asylum.


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## hulksmash (Apr 27, 2018)

To OP: some of the science is off.

I'm the resident nerd, I can't help it (e.g. my follistatin thread).


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## hulksmash (Apr 27, 2018)

Also, OP, you said confidently what enzymes do with esters, thus telling us EXACTLY what happens after.

How do you know about cleavage of esters when even researchers do NOT know what enzymes are used for hydrolosis of esters with androgens?

"...enzymes involved in the hydrolysis of the esters have not been identified.."

Gotta know in order to say "...These enzymes circulate in the medium and directly affect the release of "active" hormone in the bloodstream by ester cleavage, thus exerting different expression.."

My source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038775/


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## hulksmash (Apr 27, 2018)

Here is what OP should've posted:

I have a hypothesis, via anecdotal evidence, that people respond differently to various androgens because of genetics. I think it is because of how people can react differently with their enzymes.


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## bplebo75 (Apr 28, 2018)

Just my opinion I sit back and do alot of observing when  he first got here , I knew he wasn't going to last. Just by browsing other fourums,  he talked alot of shit. He a typical salesman. Don't trust them as far as you can throw them. I wonder however, how far I could throw him. I guess it depends on wht Test i'm on,  and what ester it binds to. The board members and veterans on UG are top notch. Very knowledgeable.  I'm I'm learning a lot in the month I been a member.


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