# Clomid & Nolva are BOTH required for a better chance at recovery



## Maintenance Man

_Taken from Austinite..._

*Coupling Tamoxifen and Clomiphene is superior in HPTA recovery than individual use

*There are 2 major components involved in recovery. Testosterone production and spermatogenesis. 

LH and FSH are both required for the equation. LH is produced by the pituitary and stimulates the testes to produce testosterone. FSH stimulates spermatozoa. They both work in synergy. You need BOTH to be at healthy levels. LH in range means you've got testosterone production and FSH in good range means you're fertile. 

Clomid has multiple effects. Its an anti-estrogen so it obviously decreases the estrogenic effects in your body by stimulating the hypothalamus. 

Nolva boosts the effects of clomid because it puts it into "competition" mode where they both fight for a receptor to bind to. This competitiveness will only happen with the presence of both compounds and will inevitably resolve the issue of excess estrogen in the hypothalamus. 

Furthermore varying the compounds; Since we know both stimulate the LH, what most don't know is that the act is different. Clomid boosts the amplitude of LH serum but has no effect on the frequency. Nolvadex is the complete opposite in that area, where it boosts the actual frequency of LH and has no effect on its amplitude.

More...clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Nolva is also mixed, however, it is a pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. There is a reason that clomid is not recommended for gynecomastia reversal but nolva is. Second to ralox that is. 

Can you recover with just nolva, or just clomid? Well, yes. Its very possible. Why would you take that risk if the combo gives you a much better chance? Clomid when coupled with nolva is clearly the safer choice over using either compound individually. 

Lastly, when you guys are getting panels ordered or estrogen levels, please be sure to order either a sensitive or ultra sensitive E2 assay. A standard estradiol test is best used to gauge women. Sensitive assays are better used for men. Get both if you'd like. You will see that you will get different results. In my case, sensitive assays would better indicate a considerably higher result than the estradiol test. This will help you with your dosage protocol as you may have issues that you're not aware of.


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## Jayjay82

Like MM said 100% true you need to use both clomid and nolvadex and you cannot use 1 without the other for proper PCT.


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## grind4it

Agreed. thanks brotha


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## gymrat827

they work in synergy


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## tunafisherman

Just a question on this, what should the dosages be if you are taking both?  Does it change the dosage seeing as you are taking both?  Say for instance you are doing a basic cycle of 500mg/week test and 300mg/week tren.


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## Milo

tunafisherman said:


> Just a question on this, what should the dosages be if you are taking both?  Does it change the dosage seeing as you are taking both?  Say for instance you are doing a basic cycle of 500mg/week test and 300mg/week tren.



Typically it is run as:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Clomid: 50/50/50/50


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## John Ziegler

Great thread MM my name is Zeigler Nice 2 Meet U.


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## Jann1

Thanks MM.....More knowledge.


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## TheHercWithAMouth

Awesome post!


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## John95

If I wanted to take both after i'm done with a cycle how would I go about taking both a day? I mean like two pills of nolva and clomid and two in the afternoon.


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## DreamChaser

John95 said:


> If I wanted to take both after i'm done with a cycle how would I go about taking both a day? I mean like two pills of nolva and clomid and two in the afternoon.



Only need to dose once a day relatively long half life at least u do some sort of research before taking shit .....


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## John95

DreamChaser said:


> Only need to dose once a day relatively long half life at least u do some sort of research before taking shit .....




this is why i have you answering my questions. Research and your input !


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## Jann1

Just what I was looking for.....Thanks MM


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## JimGainz

This is the best info I have seen on any forum. Thanks so much!! I have been wrestling with this for months.


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## boriscognac

Nolva decreases IGF-1 and GH why not use Aromasin? I have not done PCT since starting Test as I blast and cruise so I'm just curious.


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## ToolSteel

Nolva during Pct is not used only for the er blocking benefits. You sure have a lot of questions for someone who works in a trt lab.


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## boriscognac

ToolSteel said:


> Nolva during Pct is not used only for the er blocking benefits. You sure have a lot of questions for someone who works in a trt lab.




I work in a in a pharmaceutical research Lab where our groups focus currently is HRT as it could or can apply to treating psychological and neurological disorders, such as depression, mood disorders, personality disorders, dementia and alzheimers. We are not trying to figure out how to build big muscles and give men strong long lasting boners into their late 80's. You won't be seeing me in a lab coat in a infomercial hocking ageless male in the near future (I hope) 

Also my PhD is Biophysics and my personal primary role is working with the Neuroscientist researching and understanding the effect hormones have on GABA receptors. So yeah I have a lot of questions when it comes to abusing hormones and tweaking them for non medical reasons as I'm also one of those abusers. We are not studying subjects that are cycling in and out of anabolic levels of testosterone. 

Also I'm not sure decreasing IGF-1 and GH has any real benefit as it applies to PCT after taking your body to Anabolic test levels. The only reason I'd see using Nolva is if you're experiencing gyno otherwise Aromasin actually increases free testosterone production and decreases estrogen production. I'd see a better benefit in using Aromasin in combination with Clomid because based on their chemical make up that makes more sense. If you are trying to balance test production and estro production I'd personally see that as a crap shoot using a Clomid + Nolva and I'd be interested in seeing labs during and after PCT with that combo. And I would not just looking at Test and Estro levels when reviewing those Labs. Also it would be interesting to see labs in combination with a EEG after a Clomid + Nolva PCT combo. I'd make a bet neuronal circuits would be all over the place affecting each individual persons biophysical response differently. The title of this thread is a bold statement that should not be taken lightly or as fact. 

My point is I've seen a lot of people on PCT completely overkilling it with drugs and many cancelling the others out or working against each other. I think a common mistake is people look only at the drugs use and benefit and fail to account for the body's biophysical + neurological reaction to curtain compounds in combination. A good example of this is the Active component of Bynadryl, - Diphenhydramine - take it at doses of 50  - 150 mg it acts as a sedative, taken at very high doses say 500 - 1000 mg the Brain panics and releases high levels serotonin causing a person stay awake and in some cases hallucinate.

I don't consider myself an expert on Anabolic/Androgenic steroids I'm just raising questions based on my experience, education and occupation. I'm not a medical doctor but I'm pretty much a fly on a wall in a lab studying hormones and synthetic variations 5 - 7 days a week and have been for the past 9 years. SO yeah I have a lot of questions and I'm very curious. I also think some people on the forum could teach me somethings as well. Actually when I was getting my PhD some of my favorite and most informative conversations were with Pro Bodybuilders and Pro Athletes with no formal schooling not my asshole PI overseeing my post graduate research.


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## tunafisherman

So what you are saying is I can take a shitload of bynadryl and hallucinate?  Game on.


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## boriscognac

Pretty much but I'd not recommend it


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## therealkozmo

where do I find more info about hormones effect on GABA?


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## Atom1

boriscognac said:


> I work in a in a pharmaceutical research Lab where our groups focus currently is HRT as it could or can apply to treating psychological and neurological disorders, such as depression, mood disorders, personality disorders, dementia and alzheimers. We are not trying to figure out how to build big muscles and give men strong long lasting boners into their late 80's. You won't be seeing me in a lab coat in a infomercial hocking ageless male in the near future (I hope)
> 
> Also my PhD is Biophysics and my personal primary role is working with the Neuroscientist researching and understanding the effect hormones have on GABA receptors. So yeah I have a lot of questions when it comes to abusing hormones and tweaking them for non medical reasons as I'm also one of those abusers. We are not studying subjects that are cycling in and out of anabolic levels of testosterone.
> 
> Also I'm not sure decreasing IGF-1 and GH has any real benefit as it applies to PCT after taking your body to Anabolic test levels. The only reason I'd see using Nolva is if you're experiencing gyno otherwise Aromasin actually increases free testosterone production and decreases estrogen production. I'd see a better benefit in using Aromasin in combination with Clomid because based on their chemical make up that makes more sense. If you are trying to balance test production and estro production I'd personally see that as a crap shoot using a Clomid + Nolva and I'd be interested in seeing labs during and after PCT with that combo. And I would not just looking at Test and Estro levels when reviewing those Labs. Also it would be interesting to see labs in combination with a EEG after a Clomid + Nolva PCT combo. I'd make a bet neuronal circuits would be all over the place affecting each individual persons biophysical response differently. The title of this thread is a bold statement that should not be taken lightly or as fact.
> 
> My point is I've seen a lot of people on PCT completely overkilling it with drugs and many cancelling the others out or working against each other. I think a common mistake is people look only at the drugs use and benefit and fail to account for the body's biophysical + neurological reaction to curtain compounds in combination. A good example of this is the Active component of Bynadryl, - Diphenhydramine - take it at doses of 50  - 150 mg it acts as a sedative, taken at very high doses say 500 - 1000 mg the Brain panics and releases high levels serotonin causing a person stay awake and in some cases hallucinate.
> 
> I don't consider myself an expert on Anabolic/Androgenic steroids I'm just raising questions based on my experience, education and occupation. I'm not a medical doctor but I'm pretty much a fly on a wall in a lab studying hormones and synthetic variations 5 - 7 days a week and have been for the past 9 years. SO yeah I have a lot of questions and I'm very curious. I also think some people on the forum could teach me somethings as well. Actually when I was getting my PhD some of my favorite and most informative conversations were with Pro Bodybuilders and Pro Athletes with no formal schooling not my asshole PI overseeing my post graduate research.




Why did this post end this abruptly? I was thoroughly enjoying it.


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## Atom1

And...have you learned anything that further supports your theory about Aromasin and Nolva?


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