# Vegas shooting: how to prevent similar



## Jin (Oct 5, 2017)

I own a gun. I believe in the right to own firearms responsibly and to protect ones family, home and others in jeopardy. 

I'm certainly not opposed to universal background checks and prohibiting people with known mental disorders, or who are on the no-fly list, from buying guns. However, I'm not sure that any gun control legislation will prevent situations like LV. The cat's (guns are) already out of the bag. 

Even if those weapons/capacity magazines/bump stocks were outlawed, there are plenty floating around out there and the government attempting to round up and collect those weapons would never happen. 

Gun rights people say the more responsible gun owners that carry, the better. In general, I think there is logic in this. 

But what do you do when somebody has a 32 floor tactical advantage and has a that much fire power and ammo? What can you do? What should we do to prevent this from happening again?

This sick **** was a smart sick ****. This incident is far too easy to copy and repeat with similar results. With no criminal record, no radical affiliations and no mental health issues I just don't see any way to prevent this from happening again. 

Thoughts?


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## Iron1 (Oct 5, 2017)

I'm not touching this one with a 10' pole.


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## Jin (Oct 5, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> I'm not touching this one with a 10' pole.



eh, Stonetag was gonna bring it up sooner or later.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 5, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> I'm not touching this one with a 10' pole.


My attitude since Columbine. From the outside looking in, it's blindingly obvious what needs to be done BUT, again, that is from the outside looking in.


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## Jin (Oct 5, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> My attitude since Columbine. From the outside looking in, it's blindingly obvious what needs to be done BUT, again, that is from the outside looking in.



Which is what? I have a semi-outsider view living in Japan and I don't see any obvious answer. 

I live in a country where handguns are completely banned and even getting a hunting license/shotgun permit takes years.
Gun control works well here and I'm happy to not own a gun in this country. There's no need of one. This model can never work in the US due to the 2nd amendment.


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## stonetag (Oct 5, 2017)

Lol.....I was kind of waiting for someone to break the ice. I'm pretty shaken up about it Jin to be honest, a lot of folks from my area were at that concert, thankfully no one was injured. I'm with iron on this incident as far as opening up a debate on any gun related issues.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 5, 2017)

Oh ffs if this turns into the shit show that DF's gun control thread did I am just deleting it. 

My .02 is that we aren't being told the whole story. Been told semi auto weapons. But the audio doesn't back that up.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 5, 2017)

Jin said:


> Which is what? I have a semi-outsider view living in Japan and I don't see any obvious answer.
> 
> I live in a country where handguns are completely banned and even getting a hunting license/shotgun permit takes years.
> Gun control works well here and I'm happy to not own a gun in this country. There's no need of one. This model can never work in the US due to the 2nd amendment.


I think it's more related to opening pandora's box and trying to close it up later then it does to the 2nd amendment. 
The 2nd amendment was just that. An amendment to the original US constitution, which has been done a bunch of other times, to take into account the ever evolving environment that we live in. It isn't 1791 anymore. The argument that gun control cannot happen because of this amendment holds no weight with me whatsoever. The world has changed. Laws need to change with it. Environmental evolution isn't something that you can stop. 

The reason these horrible events have no noticeable impact on gun laws is that people love their guns. It's that simple. I have American friends who I've spoken to for years and you can see the cultural impact that guns have for them. So nothing is going to change. Accept that this is the new reality and hope it doesn't happen too often.


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## Jin (Oct 5, 2017)

I just don't see serious gun control able to pass into law, so what I'm asking is from a practical point of view: if these powerful weapons, high capacity mags and bump-stocks are kept legal, is there anything left to do besides prepare for the worst? Even is real gun control is passed, what about all the weapons that are already out there?

This is guy was well prepared, but his blueprint can/will be used to even greater carnage outcomes.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 5, 2017)

Powers that be want to take our guns so what's happening in Europe will happen here..this is just the beginning of these type of attacks .. were heading into civil war followed by ww3


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## Jin (Oct 5, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Oh ffs if this turns into the shit show that DF's gun control thread did I am just deleting it.
> 
> My .02 is that we aren't being told the whole story. Been told semi auto weapons. But the audio doesn't back that up.



bump stocks. The audio clearly sounded like automatic fire, but bump stocks can produce a similar rate of fire.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/news/a28479/vegas-shooter-bump-stock/


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## stonetag (Oct 5, 2017)

I will say though, the talk with the media immediately focuses on what can we (the U.S) do about guns? Or the optional gun assesories, most anything related to guns that is outlawed just creates yet another niche in black market sales.


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## Jin (Oct 5, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> So nothing is going to change. Accept that this is the new reality and hope it doesn't happen too often.



I fear you are exactly right. Just hoping somebody on the board has a solution nobody's thought of yet....


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 5, 2017)

As a licensed gun owner myself.....i honestly don't see the need for civilians to have access to Assault Rifles,
A handgun or shotgun is all thats needed for home/self defense and Rifles obviously are for hunting.


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 5, 2017)

America won't touch the gun laws simply because that will end up being a huge loss of profits for gun manufacturers.


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 5, 2017)

And lets be honest the only reason we push these "2nd amendment" rights so hard as Americans is because guns are cool....getting rid of guns in america will be like destroying part of americas "traditional history"


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## BRICKS (Oct 5, 2017)

No other species on this planet does more heinous sh*t to its own kind than humans.  Until evil is eradicated this will not change.  To think that limited or controlling an inanimate object will mitigate this is rather short sighted.  Take the vehicle attacks for example.  Man has been doing evil shit to man since long before guns, and it will continue long after guns are gone (if that were possible).  Stay safe.


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## Caballero (Oct 5, 2017)

Tricky situation imo Damned if you do Damned if you don't. But don't take away the rights from the actual "law abiding" citizens. Cuz the criminals and nut bars  will always find a way to acquire a piece.


Edit- No disrespect to the victims families but the gov't will try & use these tragedies to gain more control over the public. Scare tactics to approve/pass laws for more "watching" over the masses. People's rights are being stepped on daily and will only get worse imo.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 5, 2017)

Shouldn't another more difficult question we consider be "How can we prevent people from turning into violent psychopaths?"


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 5, 2017)

NbleSavage said:


> Shouldn't another more difficult question we consider be "How can we prevent people from turning into violent psychopaths?"


By continuing to fund research into neurological drugs and forcing them on children who show the slightest signs of psychopathy. I'm being serious in that this is the only real solution and I'm 100% positive that most people won't be comfortable opening that can of worms 

Behavioral disorders are linked to two things: environment & genetics. The former you can control to some extent (and yes, gun control is involved in this discussion too) but not completely while the latter is pretty much out of your hands and involves the individual in question resorting to discipline (not something you can teach either) and will power (a tool with an expiry date attached to it). 
Controlling the environment is what most try to do, inadvertently, when they blame stuff like video games, TV, music, etc as exerting a negative influence. Guns belong in this conversation. How much control do you want the government to have over all of this stuff is up to you - as Cabellero pointed out, too much government intervention is bad. 
Controlling genetics is about drugs. You put the children who display certain behaviors (complete lottery as to whether the testing for this would be accurate) on drugs that modulate certain signals in the brain and your good to go. Your kid might have other serious side effects, including long term permanent ones that aren't well known, but if you want 100% control then that is what is needed. 

That is why your more difficult question isn't being asked. It requires much more extreme steps to be taken than simple gun control.


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## Gibsonator (Oct 5, 2017)

take away guns and these psychopaths will just find another means to do thier evil, and we will be left unable to protect ourselves. 
one thing I was thinking is how the hell did he get all that firepower up to his hotel room unnoticed???


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 5, 2017)

Gibsonator said:


> take away guns and these psychopaths will just find another means to do thier evil, and we will be left unable to protect ourselves.
> one thing I was thinking is how the hell did he get all that firepower up to his hotel room unnoticed???



Before i got my license i use to know people in various boroughs in NY where you can guns...the black market i guess you'd call it....I think everyday regular americans who can't get guns illegally have this irrational fear of someone with an illegal gun will come thru randomly to their home....Thats why the main point of gun lobbyist is that "We need to protect ourselves" 
Protect your self from what exactly.....irrationality and fear?


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## jennerrator (Oct 5, 2017)

I just want my fuuking CCW......................................................that is all...


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## Iron1 (Oct 5, 2017)

NbleSavage said:


> Shouldn't another more difficult question we consider be "How can we prevent people from turning into violent psychopaths?"



It's funny, despite our entire history of ripping each other apart in the most brutal, violent ways possible we still insist on assuming we're peaceful creatures.

Odd creatures we humans are.


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## bsw5 (Oct 5, 2017)

New laws for guns will not fix anything!!!! Look at Chicago.. They have the most strict gun laws in the US and look what goes on. Fix Chicago then come talk to me about Gun laws. What a joke.


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## bsw5 (Oct 5, 2017)

When a terrorist kills a bunch of people with a bomb it is not blamed on the bomb. When a terrorist drives through a crowd of people with a car it is not the cars fault. When a terrorist runs through a crowd with a knife it's not the knives fault. So why is it that when there is a shooting it's the guns fault???


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 5, 2017)

Humans are peaceful  but there is a dark force out there hell bent on ruining our lives


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## snake (Oct 5, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> I just don't see any way to prevent this from happening again.
> 
> Thoughts?



You're right on everything Jin but the sad part is, you can't prevent it.


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## snake (Oct 5, 2017)

Iron1 said:


> I'm not touching this one with a 10' pole.


Give me that Pole Ron.


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## Beezy (Oct 5, 2017)

If history shows us anything it's that governments can turn on its citizens. 
Not all of its citizens, but a small, defenseless group of its citizens. 
Of course my guns are to protect my family from random intruders, but at the end of the day, if the government turns on my group, I'm gonna need my AR-15. 

It always sounds irrational to think this way until it happens, then we look back at the victims like, "Why didn't they fight?"

When Jewish survivors of the holocaust would go back to Israel they were ridiculed for not fighting.


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## Beezy (Oct 5, 2017)

The 2nd amendment is about protecting our citizens from our government should the need arise. 
Not about, "guns being cool", or "historical value", or whatever other nonsense the bigger government, liberal media spews on about. CNN is just a bias, liberal propaganda network, not a source of education.


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## snake (Oct 5, 2017)

BRICKS said:


> No other species on this planet does more heinous sh*t to its own kind than humans.



You mean like when a lion kills the offspring of another lion to bring the lioness into estrus? 

I get your point though. :32 (16):


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 5, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> I think it's more related to opening pandora's box and trying to close it up later then it does to the 2nd amendment.
> The 2nd amendment was just that. An amendment to the original US constitution, which has been done a bunch of other times, to take into account the ever evolving environment that we live in. It isn't 1791 anymore. The argument that gun control cannot happen because of this amendment holds no weight with me whatsoever. The world has changed. Laws need to change with it. Environmental evolution isn't something that you can stop.
> 
> The reason these horrible events have no noticeable impact on gun laws is that people love their guns. It's that simple. I have American friends who I've spoken to for years and you can see the cultural impact that guns have for them. So nothing is going to change. Accept that this is the new reality and hope it doesn't happen too often.



It's a part of the Bill of Rights which is a treasured document.  And there are strong arguments that the principles in it only remain there because we have guns to protect those rights from the government.

Look at the shit citizens are facing these days... 

>reporters being jailed 
>warrantless wiretaps
>domestic spying 
>aggregate data collections 
>collusion between private and public sector to hand over info
>citizens being deprived of life and due process by homicidal armed government agents 
>insane numbers of swat teams and no knock warrants 
>the war on drugs
>criminalization of poverty 
>attempts to prohibit religious practice whether prayer in school or Islam as a whole.
>surplus military hardware in suburban police departments 
>use of force for compliance purposes rather than self defense. 
>courts which rarely stand up for the people but rather bow to the government 
>politicians taking from one to give to another 

The second amendment of the Bill of Rights is not about hunting. We know this because in drafts and some state constitutions it includes the language "standing armies, being contrary to democracy, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Tyranny wasn't exclusive to the 1700's. It's alive and well.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 5, 2017)

Your examples have glaring holes in them:



bsw5 said:


> New laws for guns will not fix anything!!!! Look at Chicago.. They have the most strict gun laws in the US and look what goes on. Fix Chicago then come talk to me about Gun laws. What a joke.



Chicago does NOT have the toughest gun laws in the US. Even if they did though, how effective are their laws going to be if someone can travel a short distance to Wisconsin or Indianna and purchase the guns then cross back to Chicago with them? A recent study shows, 60% of the guns used in new gang crime in Chicago were purchased across state lines from states with more lenient laws. ATF statistics show more than half of the 8700 guns recovered in Chicago crime that were able to be traced back to an originating state, more than half came from out of state. 



bsw5 said:


> When a terrorist kills a bunch of people with a bomb it is not blamed on the bomb. When a terrorist drives through a crowd of people with a car it is not the cars fault. When a terrorist runs through a crowd with a knife it's not the knives fault. So why is it that when there is a shooting it's the guns fault???



last time I checked, owning a bomb was illegal and there are restrictions of the kinds of knives you can walk around with. Plus, how many people do you think would have been killed from the 32nd floor balcony with a knife?


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## bsw5 (Oct 5, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Your examples have glaring holes in them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Last time I checked there were  gun laws in place. I do have an idea though and I would support this. Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and it's not the weapons used. It's SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor) Look this up and read for yourself. They were either on this at the time of the shooting or had been on at some point before they committed their crimes. So I say if someone has some kind of psychiatric disability there needs to be something in place.


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## bsw5 (Oct 5, 2017)

I should have rephrased my statement. Chicago does have very tough gun laws. Maybe not the toughest but they are strict.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 5, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> Your examples have glaring holes in them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some people way the **** up in the twin towers were killed because of box cutters. What I mean is without guns they find other ways like driving a vehicle thru a farmer's market 

And poking holes in his argument hasn't demonstrated yours work. Especially since you basically used a "porous border" argument.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 5, 2017)

bsw5 said:


> How will more gun laws fix any of this??



I never said gun laws are the end all answer to this. It's a multi faceted problem that will also take a multi faceted solution to help/fix.


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## Itburnstopee (Oct 5, 2017)

Swords were never blamed for crusades.


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## bsw5 (Oct 5, 2017)

DocDePanda187123 said:


> I never said gun laws are the end all answer to this. It's a multi faceted problem that will also take a multi faceted solution to help/fix.


I edited my statement while you were replying to it. I agree with you it is definitely a multi-faceted issue. I honestly believe there is no fix for this. Seems to me that some people are just evil.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 5, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> It's a part of the Bill of Rights which is a treasured document.  And there are strong arguments that the principles in it only remain there because we have guns to protect those rights from the government.
> 
> Look at the shit citizens are facing these days...
> 
> ...


Tyranny may be alive and well but gun technology certainly hasn't been static since 1791. I guarantee the people who drafted that law don't consider "arms" to be what they are now. This all goes back to my original point - it is not 1791 so expecting the laws of that time to automatically apply to now is not by itself a valid argument against gun control. Regardless of how "treasured" the document may be. 

To be clear, I'm not saying guns should be banned. But some level of decent control is clearly needed IMO.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 5, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Some people way the **** up in the twin towers were killed because of box cutters.



you would rather not hear my thoughts on that subject nor will I post them up here lol




> What I mean is without guns they find other ways like driving a vehicle thru a farmer's market



i have no doubt they'll find other ways much like prisoners in prisons find other ways. The question remains, why leave in place what is arguably the easiest and most efficient way to go about it? If they can't use a gun they'll use a truck so let's ignore the fact that almost everyone chooses gun first....



> And poking holes in his argument hasn't demonstrated yours work. Especially since you basically used a "porous border" argument.



but I never made an argument...


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 5, 2017)

bsw5 said:


> I edited my statement while you were replying to it. I agree with you it is definitely a multi-faceted issue. I honestly believe there is no fix for this. Seems to me that some people are just evil.



Yea I def missed your edit lol


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## BRICKS (Oct 5, 2017)

snake said:


> You mean like when a lion kills the offspring of another lion to bring the lioness into estrus?
> 
> I get your point though. :32 (16):



Nature has a point to that.  How many pointless atrocities does man commit against his fellow man.  Again and again.  Yeah, we are a lot worse.


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## Beezy (Oct 5, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Tyranny may be alive and well but gun technology certainly hasn't been static since 1791. I guarantee the people who drafted that law don't consider "arms" to be what they are now. This all goes back to my original point - it is not 1791 so expecting the laws of that time to automatically apply to now is not by itself a valid argument against gun control. Regardless of how "treasured" the document may be.
> 
> To be clear, I'm not saying guns should be banned. But some level of decent control is clearly needed IMO.



I agree... 
I'll make all mine muzzleloaders as soon as the government does.


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## Trout90 (Oct 5, 2017)

The idea to enforce gun laws thinking it will prevent situations like this from happening is plan stupid. There will always be a black market that allows you to find what you need... many of us already use it. Point is if a psycho wants a gun they will find one. Taking firearms away from citizens just breaches constitutional rights and disables self defense. imo any gun ordinance would hurt honest people


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 5, 2017)

Beezy said:


> I agree...
> I'll make all mine muzzleloaders as soon as the government does.


This implies that you think you have similar firepower to the government right now, which you don't - not even close


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## Beezy (Oct 5, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> This implies that you think you have similar firepower to the government right now, which you don't - not even close



Hah! Fair enough


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 5, 2017)

With all this said,
I'm still looking forward to getting my shotgun when i get some extra money to blow.....and being from the hood my AR most likey would be full auto, I'd have to take it up to woods to shoot it but thats why i got white friends hahaha one guy i work with has like a james bond assortment of guns....lives in the woods and has a couple acres to himself


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## Jin (Oct 6, 2017)

MrRippedZilla said:


> By continuing to fund research into neurological drugs and forcing them on children who show the slightest signs of psychopathy. I'm being serious in that this is the only real solution and I'm 100% positive that most people won't be comfortable opening that can of worms
> 
> Behavioral disorders are linked to two things: environment & genetics. The former you can control to some extent (and yes, gun control is involved in this discussion too) but not completely while the latter is pretty much out of your hands and involves the individual in question resorting to discipline (not something you can teach either) and will power (a tool with an expiry date attached to it).
> Controlling the environment is what most try to do, inadvertently, when they blame stuff like video games, TV, music, etc as exerting a negative influence. Guns belong in this conversation. How much control do you want the government to have over all of this stuff is up to you - as Cabellero pointed out, too much government intervention is bad.
> ...



Psychopathy is present in up to 1% of the US population and in about 20% of the prison population. Being a psychopath doesn't make you a criminal or even necessarily violent. It definitely makes you manipulative with little to no empathy. These types of people often do well in the business world. 

So, forcing drug treatment on children who may or may not grow up to be criminals is not practical nor ethical IMO. 

Psychopathy is but one of many mental disorders that could lead to anti-social/violent behaviors. It's a specific disorder with specific characteristics. The LV shooter didn't seem to be psychopathic IMO. 



Beezy said:


> If history shows us anything it's that governments can turn on its citizens.
> Not all of its citizens, but a small, defenseless group of its citizens.
> Of course my guns are to protect my family from random intruders, but at the end of the day, if the government turns on my group, I'm gonna need my AR-15.
> 
> ...





MrRippedZilla said:


> This implies that you think you have similar firepower to the government right now, which you don't - not even close



Even with an arsenal akin to the LV shooters and the same amount of ammunition: what are you really going to be capable of when faces with an army carrying full auto guns and riding inside tanks? 



JuiceTrain said:


> With all this said,
> I'm still looking forward to getting my shotgun when i get some extra money to blow.....and being from the hood my AR most likey would be full auto, I'd have to take it up to woods to shoot it but thats why i got white friends hahaha one guy i work with has like a james bond assortment of guns....lives in the woods and has a couple acres to himself



Your AR most definitely would not be full auto. If you had access to buying one on the black market it would cost you tens of thousands of dollars, if not more. Legally owned full autos can cost upwards of 100K. 

Just to play devils advocate: you can own a full auto machine gun, but it costs lots of money, background checks and the permission of the police chief where you live. These are the most deadly of weapons with the most stringent gun control policies. 

Nobody is calling for a ban on these weapons. Why? Because they haven't been used in mass shootings (I think there are 3 instances of FA used in crimes since 1934).

A gunsmith can potentially convert a semi-auto to full auto and some are speculating this may be the case in LV, but seeing as there were bump stocks found my guess is they weren't mechanically altered. 

This has been a good discussion.


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## CardinalJacked (Oct 6, 2017)

Gun control (stricture gun legislation, laws, whatever you wanna call it) is like putting more restrictions on buying cars in order to eliminate drunk driving.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 6, 2017)

CardinalJacked said:


> Gun control (stricture gun legislation, laws, whatever you wanna call it) is like putting more restrictions on buying cars in order to eliminate drunk driving.



Yeah and look how banning cars worked out for Ralph Nader.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 6, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yeah and look how banning cars worked out for Ralph Nader.



Possibly the best use/combo of history and dry humor in UG/SI history ...right up there with Tiller and LNE.


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## IHI (Oct 6, 2017)

I have an EXTREMELY hard time believeing a bump stop pulled all that off in the cadence provided by all the videos out there. If that was the case the cadence wouldve been at a slower rate with a bump stock vs a full auto. Hell, have the professional gunners couldnt get them to operate properly to actually mimic a full auto, youtube bumpstocks and you can see just how difficult they are to operate consistently...much less sustained like what is in videos.

i dont know/believe we will know the full story behind all of this. I see now the NRA wants to see something done about bumpstocks, but i just dont think one was really utilized like they want us to believe.

a crazy bent on mass destruction will find a way, just comes down to planning and execution- both of which have multiple unfactored situations, but if things work out if somebody really thought a plan thru, things like this will/can happen unfortunately


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## Jin (Oct 6, 2017)

IHI said:


> I have an EXTREMELY hard time believeing a bump stop pulled all that off in the cadence provided by all the videos out there. If that was the case the cadence wouldve been at a slower rate with a bump stock vs a full auto. Hell, have the professional gunners couldnt get them to operate properly to actually mimic a full auto, youtube bumpstocks and you can see just how difficult they are to operate consistently...much less sustained like what is in videos.
> 
> i dont know/believe we will know the full story behind all of this. I see now the NRA wants to see something done about bumpstocks, but i just dont think one was really utilized like they want us to believe.
> 
> a crazy bent on mass destruction will find a way, just comes down to planning and execution- both of which have multiple unfactored situations, but if things work out if somebody really thought a plan thru, things like this will/can happen unfortunately



They aren't easy to use and they take practice, for sure. With how much planning & prep this guy did, I'm sure he could have mastered their use. So I'm not totally skeptical. 

Not sure why there'd be a cover up if full autos were used. The gun industry isn't making any money of civilian purchases of full auto weapons.


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 6, 2017)

I don't know the terminology for it but my buddys son is ex-military and their pretty good with tinkering and fixing shxt from guns to automotives to HVAC units....Im sure he knows how to do the conversions (don't know if that classifies as full-auto) if anything I'd just bribe em with beer to shoot some targets in their yard haha wouldn't risk buying a registered state compliant AR and doing that....cuz than i wouldn't be able to go the range with it
Just keep in storage for the zombie apocalypse


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## IHI (Oct 6, 2017)

JuiceTrain said:


> I don't know the terminology for it but my buddys son is ex-military and their pretty good with tinkering and fixing shxt from guns to automotives to HVAC units....Im sure he knows how to do the conversions (don't know if that classifies as full-auto) if anything I'd just bribe em with beer to shoot some targets in their yard haha wouldn't risk buying a registered state compliant AR and doing that....cuz than i wouldn't be able to go the range with it
> Just keep in storage for the zombie apocalypse



My step dad was in the Guard on on the shooting team, got to shoot the M16 thru iton sights to get aquainted with it; shoots itself if you seriously aim lol. Then the guys told him to lemme try full auto, he only put 3 rounds in the magazine and stressed, HOLD THE BARREL DOWN.

yeah, in the second it took to pull the trigger, the muzzle went from a ehhh downward 20* angle pointed towards ground, to about 70* angle pointing at the sky lmfao!!! That shit walked the barrel up RIGHT NOW!! So cool


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## therealkozmo (Oct 6, 2017)

Make a law that says all civilians must be trained and armed. That would solve it


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## Gibsonator (Oct 6, 2017)

IHI said:


> My step dad was in the Guard on on the shooting team, got to shoot the M16 thru iton sights to get aquainted with it; shoots itself if you seriously aim lol. Then the guys told him to lemme try full auto, he only put 3 rounds in the magazine and stressed, HOLD THE BARREL DOWN.
> 
> yeah, in the second it took to pull the trigger, the muzzle went from a ehhh downward 20* angle pointed towards ground, to about 70* angle pointing at the sky lmfao!!! That shit walked the barrel up RIGHT NOW!! So cool



I was the fukkin shit with an m16a2 back in my army days man. yes if you aren't a moron it's a pretty easy rifle to get used to


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 6, 2017)

Jin said:


> So, forcing drug treatment on children who may or may not grow up to be criminals is not practical nor ethical IMO.


This is exactly why I said debating NbleSavage's question would open up a massive can of worms. It would have zero practical relevance since the only steps that may work are not practical/ethical as you mentioned. I used psychopathy as an example since he was asking specifically about psychopaths but the same principle applies to most extreme mental disorders - stuff like CBT, etc can only do so much (more about control than cure) and the % rate of success is too low, which leaves you with drugs. That isn't going to happen so debating this is really a waste of time from a practical standpoint. It also puts into perspective just how much more reasonable the gun control debate is in comparison. 

So, back to gun control vs nothing. My hunch based on history is that nothing is going to win.


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## NbleSavage (Oct 6, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> Yeah and look how banning cars worked out for Ralph Nader.



I am proud to admit that I see what you did here.


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## BigGameHunter (Oct 6, 2017)

NbleSavage said:


> I am proud to admit that I see what you did here.



I repped Pills for that one.  Can you imagine how funny he would be if he wasnt our Boss.


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## Yaya (Oct 6, 2017)

Arguing this on SI is gayer then 2 grown men actually having sex

We aren't getting the info on this wacko..more to come.. ur paragraphs are gay and so aren't u..wait for ALL the facts u gay losers


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## Yaya (Oct 6, 2017)

I've realized on SI paragraphs are for the weak


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 6, 2017)

The founding fathers were radicals. My bet is that if they were living right now, they'd be plotting a revolution against our government as we speak.

The 2nd amendment was put in place for self-defense, including self-defense from a tyrannical gov't. It has nothing to do with hunting. They wanted citizens to have muzzle loaders and cannons in their yards back then. They'd be ok with us owning our own personal Abrams tank to defend ourselves if they were alive now.

PS - those weren't bump stocks he was using. He had some full auto's up there. Who knows if that will come out. It doesn't fit the gun control narrative because possessing a machine gun or modifying an AR-15 to full auto is already illegal and a 20 yr prison sentence. Those shots weren't even 3 round bursts from a real M-4. It was full auto. They said they found a few jammed weapons. If he had bump stocks - those were them.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 6, 2017)

NbleSavage said:


> I am proud to admit that I see what you did here.





BigGameHunter said:


> I repped Pills for that one.  Can you imagine how funny he would be if he wasnt our Boss.



And predictably young CJ texted me to ask who Ralph Nader is.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 6, 2017)

Yaya said:


> Arguing this on SI is gayer then 2 grown men actually having sex
> 
> We aren't getting the info on this wacko..more to come.. ur paragraphs are gay and so aren't u..wait for ALL the facts u gay losers



I used bullet points. Does this make me trans?


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 6, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> I used bullet points. Does this make me trans?


No your tits make U trans


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## Iron1 (Oct 6, 2017)

PillarofBalance said:


> I used *bullet* points.



Too soon man, too soon.


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## silvereyes87 (Oct 7, 2017)

Dys and beezy I agree with.  The 2nd amendment was meant to protect people from a hell bent government. Someone who has the determination and resources to kill alot of people will find a way. Oklahoma city, 911, shit look up meat cleaver attacker in china. Where theres a will theres a way. Banning after market gun parts are a slippery slope. 
If we ever banned guns. Think of how itd put the law abiders at the mercy of people who are ok with making victims of others.


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 7, 2017)

No fukking way a single old shooter with zero military experience did this alone..Don't believe anything I hear on tv..


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## Yaya (Oct 7, 2017)

Yaya said:


> Arguing this on SI is gayer then 2 grown men actually having sex
> 
> We aren't getting the info on this wacko..more to come.. ur paragraphs are gay and so aren't u..wait for ALL the facts u gay losers



This......


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## Bro Bundy (Oct 7, 2017)

I never do paragraphs just incomplete sentences


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## JuiceTrain (Oct 7, 2017)

I just write stuff based off my feelz
Than add hella dots............


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## Beezy (Oct 10, 2017)

silvereyes87 said:


> Dys and beezy I agree with.  The 2nd amendment was meant to protect people from a hell bent government. Someone who has the determination and resources to kill alot of people will find a way. Oklahoma city, 911, shit look up meat cleaver attacker in china. Where theres a will theres a way. Banning after market gun parts are a slippery slope.
> If we ever banned guns. Think of how itd put the law abiders at the mercy of people who are ok with making victims of others.



No need to imagine it. Watch the History channel.


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## Beezy (Oct 10, 2017)

Yaya said:


> This......



Lmao @ us ever getting all the facts


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