# Need to cut



## SuperBane (Dec 19, 2013)

6'4 / 260Lbs about 16% 17% BF NOW. (Dirty bulking)

(@ 230 I felt I was between 10% - 12% bf. Looking at the mirror but I could be wrong.)
I felt tiny and weak, So I started to bulk.

Bloat easy off of carbs and always feel sluggish when eating too much.

Love PB cups more then POB.

Mesomorph with powerlifter eating tendencies, Usually once I start I'm good and don't cheat.

The bulk got away from me, Need to cut a bit then try to recomp. Feel too Fat. Too fat to cycle. Too fat to keep bulking.

That TDEE stuff never seemed to work for me. calculations were never correct or I just had too many carbs.

Plan to cycle on the recomp Test cyp 500/600 wk and Var @ whatever dosage for 6 weeks.

Can't decide if I should run a keto style diet or cycle carbs(bloatware) or calories.

Plan to increase water intake & maybe run ECA.

4 days on the weights / 3 days on a stepmill or an air dyne style bike (steady state cardio)

Maybe throw in some HIIT on the weight training days for 10 - 20 minutes.

Opinions?


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## PillarofBalance (Dec 19, 2013)

Run a keto for 6 weeks while cruising on 250 test. Then at week six start the cycle.  Carb up on weekends.  Cardio is fine. Just keep it to say 30 min per day.


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## Joliver (Dec 19, 2013)

My motto is as follows:  The only thing you cut is confidence.  

Admittedly seeing my feet isn't a huge priority....

But if I wanted to trim down, I would throw in a bit more sled dragging.  20 minutes per day.  Wear weighted vest.  Keto diet.  All of those things combined makes it fall off of me.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 19, 2013)

dont do anything weird untill u get your first cycle in..I would just do test 12 to 14 weeks and eat alot but clean.


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## Pinkbear (Dec 19, 2013)

Just ran sust 250 and var 60 drop some pretty good body fat. 

3000 cals 50-100 carbs fill in the rest with fat/pro

Was starting to see a 6 pack towards the end of cycle


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## Azog (Dec 19, 2013)

What carbs are you eating that bloat you so bad? How much are you eating in a sitting? Have you tried different carb sources? Everyone digests certain foods differently. Some people can't do gluten or dairy well. Some people also swear brown rice/sweet potatoes bloat them /make them sluggish more than white rice/white potatoes. Shit, some poeple even digest oatmeal too slowly/poorly and bloat/get sluggish.


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## SuperBane (Dec 19, 2013)

Azog said:


> What carbs are you eating that bloat you so bad? How much are you eating in a sitting? Have you tried different carb sources? Everyone digests certain foods differently. Some people can't do gluten or dairy well. Some people also swear brown rice/sweet potatoes bloat them /make them sluggish more than white rice/white potatoes. Shit, some poeple even digest oatmeal too slowly/poorly and bloat/get sluggish.



Thank you Azog.
Yes It was easier for me to bake a bunch of sweet potatoes so I did.
& Brown rice for awhile. Was trying to switch to jasmine.

I was doing about 3 servings of either sweet p. or rice at 195g per serving
Breakfast either oatmeal or cream of wheat same serving size.

Then whatever carbs came with broccoli and protein shakes.


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## Stevethedream (Dec 19, 2013)

SuperBane said:


> Thank you Azog.
> Yes It was easier for me to bake a bunch of sweet potatoes so I did.
> & Brown rice for awhile. Was trying to switch to jasmine.
> 
> ...


What's up Bane, I have a quick question for u. Now when u say u were eating 195g per serving was that total carbs or total calories? Cuz if it's 195g of carbs per serving bro, that's hella a lot. Lol. I don't even think 3 time Mr. Olympia Phil Health can eat that many carbs at one meal. It would than make alot of sense y ur feeling bloated or sluggish. I would cut those carbs in half and just eat a couple more meals to equal out the carbs. Basically I only eat between 60-80g carbs per meal when I'm bulking. But I usually eat 6-7 meals per day. So sometimes my total for carbs would range between 400-600 a day. Hope this helped bro. Oh yea, I also do cardio 215-183 times per week at a steady pace.


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## Stevethedream (Dec 19, 2013)

Stevethedream said:


> What's up Bane, I have a quick question for u. Now when u say u were eating 195g per serving was that total carbs or total calories? Cuz if it's 195g of carbs per serving bro, that's hella a lot. Lol. I don't even think 3 time Mr. Olympia Phil Health can eat that many carbs at one meal. It would than make alot of sense y ur feeling bloated or sluggish. I would cut those carbs in half and just eat a couple more meals to equal out the carbs. Basically I only eat between 60-80g carbs per meal when I'm bulking. But I usually eat 6-7 meals per day. So sometimes my total for carbs would range between 400-600 a day. Hope this helped bro. Oh yea, I also do cardio 215-183 times per week at a steady pace.



I meant 2 - 3 times per wk. Damn stupid phone. Haha


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 19, 2013)

You'll need to be in a calorie deficit either through diet or increased energy expenditure to lose weight and/or fat. Whether you count calories or do it through intuition it is the most important factor towards losing weight. The calculations for TDEE are just guesses and starting points. Once you calculate your TDEE you should eat at that level and figure out your maintenance. If you gain weight after a couple weeks you know your maintenance is less and you'd drop a couple hundred calories and check again in a few weeks. The same thing goes if you lose weight but you'd add calories instead. On e you have your maintenance levels you just eat more or less to bulk or cut. 

Whatever dieting philosophy you choose is up to you. They all rely on the same fundamental principles ie total daily energy balance, proper macronutrient intake, meeting micronutrient needs, etc. Which path you choose is up to you. Some prefer keto if they're carb or gluten intolerant but some cannot function properly running on ketones instead of carbs, some prefer carb cycling, some prefer intermittent fasting but to others they need to eat more frequently, etc. 

How old are you Superbane and how active would you say you are outside the gym? We can get a rough estimate of your TDEE pretty quickly and it should only take a few weeks to get your maintenance levels from there


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## Fsuphisig (Dec 19, 2013)

Stop eating gluten for a month or two will really help you eat clean


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## SFGiants (Dec 19, 2013)

You wanna recomp without losing strength and possible weight?

Run tren ace for 6 to 8 weeks!

I'm on week six have gained a couple pounds but drop size in my waist and my power belt is the proof of the waist size.

I weight about 3 pounds more, stronger and leaner.


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## SFGiants (Dec 19, 2013)

Do the above with a cleaner diet and you won't need no fancy diet or to cut calories hell you may eat more at times.


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## SuperBane (Dec 19, 2013)

Bundy, Quit giving me shit. LOL I'm almost there bro.

SFG, I can't run tren yet. Or I would. It would be perfect for what I want to do. Test & Var shall suffice.

Steve 195 grams on the scale per serving. Doesn't seem like a lot to me? :shrugs: I'm talking cooked grams of food here. Not calories.

Doc, The hours I work keep me moderately active during the day. Then the weight training. (30 y/o)

I haven't been doing cardio lately.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 19, 2013)

SuperBane said:


> Bundy, Quit giving me shit. LOL I'm almost there bro.
> 
> SFG, I can't run tren yet. Or I would. It would be perfect for what I want to do. Test & Var shall suffice.
> 
> ...



So based on your stats your BMR is around 2450 calories. This is if you were catatonic or bedridden with no activity. I'm going to guess based on your gym time and description of your job you have a fairly high activity level of around 1.5-1.6 so we'll split the difference and call it 1.55. 2450 x 1.55 = 3800 calories for your TDEE. This is your ROUGH maintenance levels to sustain your weight. If time is of the essence I'd go into the cut ASAP. If time is more of a luxury, I'd try to eat at maintenance for ~2wks and check for weight change. This will allow you to pinpoint your true requirements and figure everything out a bit easier. 

If you need to cut ASAP and If you're running a cycle during this you should be able to cut fairly aggressively compared to being natural so a 15-20% calorie deficit or 3000-3200 calories a day. The macros would depend on if you're carb cycling, running keto or one of the variations, just running a calorie deficit with normal macros, etc. Pick the type of dieting philosophy you'd like to try and we can figure out the macros from there brother. Hope this helps you


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## Azog (Dec 19, 2013)

195g is not a HUGE serving of carbs, IMO. But, if you are bloating and getting sluggish...you need to try something different. Less carbs, more fat. Smaller, more frequent meals. White rice/potato instead of brown/sweet. Shit, even try different proteins and veggies. Maybe broccoli doesn't work for your gut? 

I also think getting rid of gluten for a bit to see what happens would be good. 

Do you eat dairy?

What are your protein sources?


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## Azog (Dec 19, 2013)

One more thing I recently just discovered about myself is:

I need more sodium in my diet than I thought. I was getting a touch bloated (not water retention, but more like distension of the gut) and having bad gas. I remember reading somewhere (don't ask where lol) that sodium is important in digestion. Not sure if it's true, but I started throwing hot sauce at everything and my distension and gas has all but disappeared.


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## SuperBane (Dec 20, 2013)

Azog on a bulk I eat everything. On a cut no dairy. Really no bread or anything like that. No grains aside from steel cut oats or cream of wheat.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 20, 2013)

im not giving u shit bro...I just want u to get your first cycle in already so u can see what its all about


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## SuperBane (Dec 21, 2013)

Brother Bundy said:


> im not giving u shit bro...I just want u to get your first cycle in already so u can see what its all about



No you are welcome to give me shit. You ran your first when I was suppose to run mine. We should be neck and neck. I am proper glad I waited. I have that pinn shit just sitting there ready to lube a rusty chain. have came a far way.

I got to go get bloods and get this BF% right. I'm anxious. Very anxious.

Wish I could at least try tren. I'm too smart not to trick myself to do dumb shit.

Going to need blue hearts for this fall. DDT is #2 brother.


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## Bro Bundy (Dec 21, 2013)

SuperBane said:


> No you are welcome to give me shit. You ran your first when I was suppose to run mine. We should be neck and neck. I am proper glad I waited. I have that pinn shit just sitting there ready to lube a rusty chain. have came a far way.
> 
> I got to go get bloods and get this BF% right. I'm anxious. Very anxious.
> 
> ...



i feel your ready for a test and oral cycle now..but its always up to u


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## SuperBane (Dec 21, 2013)

6 large eggs 

6 large eggs

1 Chicken breast

1/2 cup almonds

8oz Salmon / Steak

Asparagus (or green salad)

1 tbsp Olive oil

2 scoops whey (pre)

2 tbsp peanut butter

2 scoops whey (post)

2 tbsp peanut butter

1 serving flax seed

1 serving Carlson Fish oil

That should put me around 3k calories.

roughly 170g fat
roughly 310g protein
And about roughly 60g carbs


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## jyoung8j (Dec 22, 2013)

This is for a cut superbane?? I'm assuming since carbs r so low..


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## SuperBane (Dec 22, 2013)

jyoung8j said:


> This is for a cut superbane?? I'm assuming since carbs r so low..



Yes unless anyone else has some better advice?

Thinking of adding T3 at the second week of the cycle up to week 6 as well.


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## Pinkbear (Dec 22, 2013)

Cut the peanut butter in half. I know it's hard but peanut butter is high in cals and bottom line is to cut you need to be cal def. I funking love peanut butter. Nothing beats the very first scoop out of a brand new jar of crunchy peanut butter and a carton of milk


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## DocDePanda187123 (Dec 23, 2013)

SuperBane said:


> Yes unless anyone else has some better advice?
> 
> Thinking of adding T3 at the second week of the cycle up to week 6 as well.



I would lower your protein intake a bit and add more dietary fat or carbs if you figure out what's causing the bloated feeling. 

I'd also run the T3 longer than 4wks. Definitely wait till the second week to start it but you could run it to the very end of the cycle if you wanted to.


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## SuperBane (Jan 16, 2014)

About 3200 calories a day, Although based off little carbs holds me around 255lbs.

(Added heavy whipping cream to shakes).

I assume weight loss came in the small form of cardio and loss of the water weight from cutting carbs.

At least I have a better Idea upon where I sit.
I do not care for keto at all any longer.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 16, 2014)

SuperBane said:


> About 3200 calories a day, Although based off little carbs holds me around 255lbs.
> 
> (Added heavy whipping cream to shakes).
> 
> ...



Keto doesn't work for everyone bro, you may just not be able to run off ketones as efficiently as others but that just means you don't do keto hahaha

How's everything else coming along? Energy levels good? Progress on your lifts?


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## SuperBane (Jan 17, 2014)

Actually the amount of reps/sets or weight started to trend downwards doc. Quickly. My lifts were dropping and weight was stagnant.
Energy levels were either horrible or just ok. The only time I felt good was drinking energy drinks or the sodas both containing  Erythirtol.

I'm going to figure out a carb / calorie cycle soon and post up.
Thanks for checking back with me bro!


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## SuperBane (Jan 17, 2014)

I could be off here with this logic but I am thinking of taking what I believe to be my LBM and multiplying my macro's off of that.
So 1.25g protein per lbm
.4g fat per lbm
The rest of the calories will be from carbs.

On training days I will eat at maintenance. (four days a week) The off days I will taper the carbs down. (3 days a week)

Planning on doing cardio 5x a week first at 130bpm for 30 minutes and then incorporating 15 - 20 minutes of HIIT instead.

Will try to use Jasmine rice / Broc for my carbs.
Maybe gummie bears PWO. (PB cups only while bulking incase pob is looking.)

As of now I'm not going to count protein from indirect sources in my macro's. (This may put me too high in protein in some people's book, Not sure.)

ECA (12.5/200mg) starting at 2 times daily and increasing doses along the way.

Desire is to cycle within 4-6 weeks. Cyp & Var.

That's all I got for tonight.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 17, 2014)

SuperBane said:


> I could be off here with this logic but I am thinking of taking what I believe to be my LBM and multiplying my macro's off of that.
> So 1.25g protein per lbm
> .4g fat per lbm
> The rest of the calories will be from carbs.
> ...



I think that protein and fat intake will be plenty for you. What's your current BF? I know Lyle suggests slightly increasing protein intake as you get to low BF levels to help stave off muscle loss. In extreme cases (extreme diets like PSMF and very lean individuals) it may be beneficial to go 1.5g/lb lbm or higher but only in those cases. 

What's the idea behind eating maintenance for training days and deficit for off days? Just curious. 

I'd start off slower with the cardio and use your diet more to create the deficit at first and when progress begins to stall slowly increase the cardio and cut calories further. That's just me personally but up to you. 

I'd count protein from indirect sources just bc they are still calories and can throw your total intake off for the day if left unaccounted for. Plus there's no reason not to count them as they are real sources of protein. If you decide not to count them just be careful you don't accidentally end up in a calorie surplus. 

Good luck SuperBane and please keep the updates coming brother!!!


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## SuperBane (Jan 22, 2014)

I will touch back on this here shortly Doc but my ideology was If I based most of my protein around meat and didn't count the rest, The days I was short something or forgot something I'd still have my requirements. LOL a catch fail.

Anyways thinking of carb cycling at a slightly reduce deficit.

Ever seen scooby's calculator?

http://scoobysworkshop.com/advanced-fat-loss-carb-cycling/

The thing I'm having problems with are figuring out high medium low days.
I train four days in a row.

Back,Chest,Legs,Shoulders. Off.OFF.Off.

Shit.


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## SuperBane (Jan 22, 2014)




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## SuperBane (Jan 22, 2014)

If I start sprinkling this thread with VIXENS. They will come. Oh yes. They will come.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 22, 2014)

superbane said:


> if i start sprinkling this thread with vixens. They will come. Oh yes. They will come.



hereeeeeeeee


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## Seeker (Jan 22, 2014)

Damn I would eat that all night long. Her snatch would be dry as a prune by the time I was done.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 22, 2014)

SuperBane said:


> I will touch back on this here shortly Doc but my ideology was If I based most of my protein around meat and didn't count the rest, The days I was short something or forgot something I'd still have my requirements. LOL a catch fail.
> 
> Anyways thinking of carb cycling at a slightly reduce deficit.
> 
> ...



I don't buy into most of what Scooby says so I've never seen the calculator lol. 

Can you split your training up into 4 non-consecutive days? If not legs and back (squats and deads) will probably need the most carbs so the way you have your split now I'd do high carb, high carb, medium carb, medium carb, low, low, low. Not the best I've seen but fits to your training schedule obviously. Maybe Spongy has some ideas without switching your days up ?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 22, 2014)

Seeker said:


> Damn I would eat that all night long. Her snatch would be dry as a prune by the time I was done.



Is that one of the tricks you're going to show me. ? Lol


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## Seeker (Jan 22, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> Is that one of the tricks you're going to show me. ? Lol



We need to hang out Doc.


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 22, 2014)

Seeker said:


> We need to hang out Doc.



My mission here at UGBB is complete. I can die in peace now that Seek wants to chill! 

I'm honored brother


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## Seeker (Jan 22, 2014)

Docd187123 said:


> My mission here at UGBB is complete. I can die in peace now that Seek wants to chill!
> 
> I'm honored brother



Me too Doc. You're an encyclopedia of knowledge. As I get older I'm gonna need you more and more .


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## DocDePanda187123 (Jan 22, 2014)

Seeker said:


> Me too Doc. You're an encyclopedia of knowledge. As I get older I'm gonna need you more and more .



I am up for adoption if you're feeling generous tonight Seek. My tastes range from lifting, cars/bikes, to Latinas . I think you have it backwards but Every member will agree, you're an invaluable asset to this forum. 

Not everything goes bad with age...just think wine/tequila/scotch, smoked brisket, and freeze dried test powder. You're as sharp as ever gramps


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## SuperBane (Jan 22, 2014)

No Doc I really can't split the days in half. I was doing just that but my schedule got funky. If I do whatever lift I do on the fourth day is going to suffer.


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## CrazyWhitey (Feb 3, 2014)

SFGiants said:


> You wanna recomp without losing strength and possible weight?
> 
> Run tren ace for 6 to 8 weeks!
> 
> ...



Getting the Ace is the hard part!


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