# ¿Front Squats?



## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 10, 2021)

*Whats your harshest and most truthful opinion on front squats? Especially cross armed. *

I spent a good bit of time today practicing my squat form. My main problem is my balance, Im like a daisy in the wind. Second is my lower back engaging, I think this is caused by my lack of balance. (I know its a sign of bad form)

Are my tertiary/balancing muscles underdeveloped? Or am I just being a meat head?

I experimented with traditional front squats which bettered my balance and used less of my lower back. 

Then I tried the cross armed variant, and it was like magic. My balance was many multitudes better, and I barely felt anything in my lower back.


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## CJ (Feb 10, 2021)

If it feels better that way, have at it. I've never done them crossed armed, so I have no experience to share.


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2021)

There’s currently no danger of you being a meat head. 

Crossed arms is the only way I can manage.


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

There is no way my wrists will go back that far. Crossed arm it is.


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## SFGiants (Feb 10, 2021)

Only way I liked front squats was zercher or a safety squat bar backwards.

Suspended zercher squats are highly underrated


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## Uncle manny (Feb 10, 2021)

Front squats are great. Especially for building core strength. Nothing wrong with cross arm. Front rack done properly helps you engage your upper back better but all in all not a big deal if you can’t get in that front rack comfortably and have to cross your arms or use straps.


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## Seeker (Feb 10, 2021)

When I was a teenager I was taught to do front squats 1st.  Then when  got to doing conventional squats it was an easier transition. That was my experience anyway


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## BrotherIron (Feb 10, 2021)

Performing them with crossed arms is reckless and stupid. It makes it MUCH easier for your upper back to round and then dump the bar.

Perform Front Squats if you want your conventional deadlift to go up and do them with an Oly grip.  If you whine about your wrists not being flexible then widen your grip which will make it easier to hold the bar.  Using an Oly grip will allow you to keep your chest up, upper back set, and keep your torso upright and tight which will allow you to lift more.


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 10, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> Performing them with crossed arms is reckless and stupid. It makes it MUCH easier for your upper back to round and then dump the bar.
> 
> Perform Front Squats if you want your conventional deadlift to go up and do them with an Oly grip.  If you whine about your wrists not being flexible then widen your grip which will make it easier to hold the bar.  Using an Oly grip will allow you to keep your chest up, upper back set, and keep your torso upright and tight which will allow you to lift more.


 I have a power rack with safties, would it still be reckless? 

I have alot of time tommorow to test with grip width and holds.


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## John Ziegler (Feb 10, 2021)

had to do them a few years after some surgery on my trap

always felt like it was ripping my guts out 

not a fan


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## Boogieman (Feb 10, 2021)

To each their own if it is working for you keep doing it!


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> Performing them with crossed arms is reckless and stupid. It makes it MUCH easier for your upper back to round and then dump the bar.
> 
> Perform Front Squats if you want your conventional deadlift to go up and do them with an Oly grip.  If you whine about your wrists not being flexible then widen your grip which will make it easier to hold the bar.  Using an Oly grip will allow you to keep your chest up, upper back set, and keep your torso upright and tight which will allow you to lift more.



A moderator calling people on the site stupid??


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## SFGiants (Feb 10, 2021)

You all love them cock squats, go deep!


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## Adrenolin (Feb 10, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> A moderator calling people on the site stupid??



Stop being a pansy.. no crybabies allowed.


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

Adrenolin said:


> Stop being a pansy.. no crybabies allowed.



I was expecting a little more maturity.


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## Jin (Feb 10, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> I was expecting a little more maturity.



From whom?

BrotherIron said a particular movement was stupid. That doesn’t equate to members being stupid.


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## Skullcrusher (Feb 10, 2021)

I have bad wrists to begin with.

Had the same issues as many after trying them both ways.

Wanted to do front squats because they are one of the best for legs.

Might take another shot at them some day the way BrotherIron suggested.


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## Tiny (Feb 10, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> I was expecting a little more maturity.



This is coming off really stupid. I’m not using that to emphasize a point either. 

Regarding front squats, what’s the goal here? Putting on size? I’m in the camp that favors movements that have the lowest probability for injury. Front squats is one I’d label higher risk. So all this sh!t is dumb is my input.


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## TODAY (Feb 10, 2021)

Tiny said:


> This is coming off really stupid. I’m not using that to emphasize a point either.
> 
> *Regarding front squats, what’s the goal here? Putting on size? I’m in the camp that favors movements that have the lowest probability for injury. Front squats is one I’d label higher risk. So all this sh!t is dumb is my input.*


Care to share your logic on this?

What makes a properly-performed front squat more injurious than a back squat, leg press, etc?


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## Tiny (Feb 10, 2021)

TODAY said:


> Care to share your logic on this?
> 
> What makes a properly-performed front squat more injurious than a back squat, leg press, etc?



Sure, I'll try to make it quick


I'm going to just guess the purpose of the lift for OP is bodybuilding. Not power lifting, not sports training, endurance training etc. Bodybuilding.

Any movement that you're forced to contract your core /obliques/ lumbar would be building muscle I don't want. I don't want to look like a crossfitter with square frame linear muscle. I want an X frame. With squats you're risking both back injury and leg injury. They're absolutely essential in certain purpose based regimes. Bodybuilding, not so much. It's just an antiquated movement from when the lines between power lifting and bodybuilding became jumbled.


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## Koolio (Feb 10, 2021)

25 years ago I bought 2 plastic gizmos...one was called a manta ray and the other was called a sting ray (I think)...the sting ray would snap onto an olympic bar and was designed to aid with front squats...if interested just google it...


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## CohibaRobusto (Feb 10, 2021)

I was taught to do them with arms crossed.

What I've found for me personally, is that it forces me to stay in a more upright posture in order to keep the bar in the right place. (Opposite from what Brotheriron said about causing back rounding issues).

I have a tendency to want to round more during back squats.

So I use front squats as a tool during my warmup, where I do some with light weight, or just the bar, to kind of remind myself to keep that upright posture.


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 10, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> A moderator calling people on the site stupid??


I asked for the harsh and hard truth, thats the most constructive way of getting it. It isnt unwarranted


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## JackDMegalomaniac (Feb 10, 2021)

Tiny said:


> Sure, I'll try to make it quick
> 
> 
> I'm going to just guess the purpose of the lift for OP is bodybuilding. Not power lifting, not sports training, endurance training etc. Bodybuilding.
> ...


What else would you suggest for lower body? Im using my home gym which only has Power rack and leg extensions. 

I am open to going to a gym, but in the process of getting a job. So I dont have the money right now.


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## Adrenolin (Feb 10, 2021)

Koolio said:


> 25 years ago I bought 2 plastic gizmos...one was called a manta ray and the other was called a sting ray (I think)...the sting ray would snap onto an olympic bar and was designed to aid with front squats...if interested just google it...



I have those as well, you just have them reversed.  The manta ray attachment is for front squats,  and the stingray puts the bar high on your traps making back squats more quad targeted as well.


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## snake (Feb 10, 2021)

God damn, how a post about front squats can go south so quick is beyond me.

Here's my take on front squats. They have little use for a PLer, okay no use as far as I'm concerned. From a BBing standing point they can be of some use as a finisher. I would bet 90% of the guys who do front squats do them as an alternative to squats because for some reason, they can not squat. So people need to be honest with themselves about why they are even doing them. 

I don't see a difference in how you need to hold your arms so if crossed works for you, have at it. I had issues holding the bar if I didn't cross my arms so that was the way I did them. They never became a staple of my training because I could still rear squat productively.

Like I previously mentioned, you need to know why you have chose to do them. For me, it was to get more quad work in after squats without taxing my back more as I just did with rear squats. I will offer you an alternative that worked better for me than front squats: rear squats using a slant board. It will put the stress in your quads and the semi-upright position is lower back friendly.


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## Thewall (Feb 10, 2021)

I had to resort to front squats because they were less stressful on my hips(impingement). You are more upright with front squats. I had a problem in the beginning with flexibility, but kept at it and I am now able to do them. Before I got there I would use wrist straps wrapped around the bar and hold them while trying to keep my elbows up. I was slowly able to work my way down the straps until I could grab the bar with my own hands.


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

Tiny said:


> Sure, I'll try to make it quick
> 
> 
> I'm going to just guess the purpose of the lift for OP is bodybuilding. Not power lifting, not sports training, endurance training etc. Bodybuilding.
> ...



Help me understand.  A solid core actually takes stress off of your back. Back squats, standing mil press, etc all bring into play the core muscles.  Are you suggesting that we don’t accomplish these exercises either or did I misunderstand your message?


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## Tiny (Feb 10, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> Are you suggesting that we don’t accomplish these exercises



I have no idea what the goals are to be able to blanket suggest anything. It really was a secondary point I shouldn't have led with. Primary point was to answer the injury Q Today asked. 




Charger69 said:


> Back squats, standing mil press, etc all bring into play the core muscles.



Right, some more then others.



Charger69 said:


> did I misunderstand your message?



Sounds like you're just generalizing not misunderstanding.
There are 10 different ways to accomplish a gym goal so work smarter not harder. If I don't need to put that much stress on your CNS to achieve the goal, why would I? 
Current BB'rs are fighting over developed obliques, the newer guys are coming in with crazy waists


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

Tiny said:


> I have no idea what the goals are to be able to blanket suggest anything. It really was a secondary point I shouldn't have led with. Primary point was to answer the injury Q Today asked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought everyone just blamed the waists on slin.  LOL

If your goal was bodybuilding (competitions), what would your recommendations be to develop the quads based on your comments?


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## Tiny (Feb 10, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> I thought everyone just blamed the waists on slin.  LOL
> 
> If your goal was bodybuilding (competitions), what would your recommendations be to develop the quads based on your comments?



Again, depends what part of your quads need the most work yada yada

Here's Nick Walker's routine for something general. Crazy waist


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## Seeker (Feb 10, 2021)

Omg some comments. Lololol. I've been squatting, front and conventional for 40 fuking years. No problems whatsoever.  Some of ya'll need to put down the Google and get in the gym and experience real life lifting.


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

Seeker said:


> Omg some comments. Lololol. I've been squatting, front and conventional for 40 fuking years. No problems whatsoever.  Some of ya'll need to put down the Google and get in the gym and experience real life lifting.



Finally....: someone older than me!  LOL


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## snake (Feb 10, 2021)

Seeker said:


> Omg some comments. Lololol. I've been squatting, front and conventional for 40 fuking years. No problems whatsoever.  Some of ya'll need to put down the Google and get in the gym and experience real life lifting.





Charger69 said:


> Finally....: someone older than me!  LOL


Back in the day you figured out what worked, you didn't read about what someone said worked. In the long run, it made you better.


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

snake said:


> Back in the day you figured out what worked, you didn't read about what someone said worked. In the long run, it made you better.



Yes.  But I also like to see different opinions. 
The internet has people overthinking too much. 
Since legs are my weakest part, I probably also overthink.   My best exercise is swallowing anadrol on leg day.


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## Big Mikey (Feb 10, 2021)

If they feel right, front squats are the way to go.


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## Charger69 (Feb 10, 2021)

Big Mikey said:


> If they feel right, front squats are the way to go.



It’s a delt killer for me. I have fairly large front delts and getting the bar to stop from rolling off is a struggle.  I also have pain in the delts as a result.  
I guess I am just a pansy.  LOL


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## Sicwun88 (Feb 10, 2021)

Cross armed on the Smith machine, 
Legs way out front!!!


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## BrotherIron (Feb 11, 2021)

JackDMegalomaniac said:


> I have a power rack with safties, would it still be reckless?
> 
> I have alot of time tommorow to test with grip width and holds.



Reckless in the sense that you're putting yourself in a weaker position. Why would you knowingly put yourself in a position where you are weaker.  That's like deadlifting and keeping the bar out in front.  Think you're going to lift as much?  Nope.  Simple as that.  Crossed armed technique isn't as strong a position so why incorporate it?  Why not put yourself in the strongest position to perform the lift.  You do that by keeping your bar in the area of balance in pulls so do it here too.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 11, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> A moderator calling people on the site stupid??



I said the lift being performed in a lazy fashion was reckless and stupid.  I'll also call it lazy.  If you're going to perform the lift then do so in a manner/ fashion which is the strongest possible position and also the safest.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 11, 2021)

CohibaRobusto said:


> I was taught to do them with arms crossed.
> 
> What I've found for me personally, is that it forces me to stay in a more upright posture in order to keep the bar in the right place. (Opposite from what Brotheriron said about causing back rounding issues).
> 
> ...



What happens when the weight gets heavy, really heavy. The bar causes your arms to lower which causes your upper back to round (due to your arms falling) and eventually you dump the bar and miss the lift.  When you use the Oly grip, your upper back remains upright more so b/c you keep your elbows up.  That position takes the rounding out all together which makes it easier to stay upright and if you try both you'll find you can front squat MUCH more using the Oly grip.  I've seen people add 30+ to their front squat with the Oly grip.


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## CohibaRobusto (Feb 11, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> What happens when the weight gets heavy, really heavy. The bar causes your arms to lower which causes your upper back to round (due to your arms falling) and eventually you dump the bar and miss the lift.  When you use the Oly grip, your upper back remains upright more so b/c you keep your elbows up.  That position takes the rounding out all together which makes it easier to stay upright and if you try both you'll find you can front squat MUCH more using the Oly grip.  I've seen people add 30+ to their front squat with the Oly grip.



I totally see what you're saying. I'm just not doing heavy weight with front squats. And the fact that it has that tendency to roll forward is what helps me focus on keeping my posture upright more.

I might get someone to show me the oly grip too. Thanks


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## Chump16 (Feb 11, 2021)

For those having issues using the Oly grip with Front Squats, in my experience, alot of times it is more and issue with shoulder/lat flexibility than wrists.

Also, one can use wrist wraps wrapped on the bar and use them in handles .......




Obviously for training, not necessarily for heavy lifts


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## CJ (Feb 11, 2021)

Chump16 said:


> For those having issues using the Oly grip with Front Squats, in my experience, alot of times it is more and issue with shoulder/lat flexibility than wrists.



Tight triceps too. 

To loosen them up, rest your arm on a barbell at shoulder height in your rack. With your tricep resting on the barbell, repeatedly and slowly flex and extend your elbow while rolling the barbell with your off hand. The weight of your arm is enough to really dig into the tricep as you run your arm up and down over the barbell. 

It hurts, you've been warned. But it works. Try the same thing for hamstrings if you like pain.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 11, 2021)

Chump16 said:


> For those having issues using the Oly grip with Front Squats, in my experience, alot of times it is more and issue with shoulder/lat flexibility than wrists.
> 
> Also, one can use wrist wraps wrapped on the bar and use them in handles .......
> 
> ...



You can use straps to help simulate an Oly gripped front squat and you can go heavy with it.  Just be careful and work your way being smart.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 11, 2021)

And for those saying holding the bar in the Oly manner/ fashion doesn't work I have a fix for you... widen your grip (hand placement).  Yes, I said widen your grip.  You'll find it easier to hold onto the bar b/c the angle changes.  

I'm extremely biased when it comes to Oly lifts and the Oly assisting lifts as I did them for over a decade before being leaving from the sport due to injuries.  If done well, they will strengthen your legs, your "core", and build your quads. Oly lifts/ assisting build coordination, strength, speed, etc.


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## Joliver (Feb 11, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> You can use straps to help simulate an Oly gripped front squat and you can go heavy with it.  Just be careful and work your way being smart.



Broz knows. 

Uuuuugh.....time to rack it.--Pat Mendez


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## RISE (Feb 12, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> What happens when the weight gets heavy, really heavy. The bar causes your arms to lower which causes your upper back to round (due to your arms falling) and eventually you dump the bar and miss the lift.  When you use the Oly grip, your upper back remains upright more so b/c you keep your elbows up.  That position takes the rounding out all together which makes it easier to stay upright and if you try both you'll find you can front squat MUCH more using the Oly grip.  I've seen people add 30+ to their front squat with the Oly grip.



This is why you put it lying across your upper chest and in the groove of where your delts insert into your clavicle.  

I also put my heels on 10 lbs plates so I can sit back in the squat further.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 12, 2021)

RISE said:


> This is why you put it lying across your upper chest and in the groove of where your delts insert into your clavicle.
> 
> I also put my heels on 10 lbs plates so I can sit back in the squat further.



It'll still draw your arms down if you add enough weight.  Do an experiment for me.  Try both and see which you can lift more.  

Ankle mobility is something MOST lifters struggle with as well as weak ankles in general.


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## BrotherIron (Feb 12, 2021)

Joliver said:


> Broz knows.
> 
> Uuuuugh.....time to rack it.--Pat Mendez



To bad Pat got a lifetime ban. Kid had talent but wasted it and never even achieved anything. The Average Broz facility was in John's business to begin with.  Had the opportunity to train there once.  Crazy atmosphere. Watched John tell a kid he had to squat a certain weight and if he failed he was kicked out. That kid got stapled 3x by the weight before giving up.

Rob also had SERIOUS talent but instead decided to focus on school and they basically turned their back on the kid.


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## RISE (Feb 13, 2021)

BrotherIron said:


> It'll still draw your arms down if you add enough weight.  Do an experiment for me.  Try both and see which you can lift more.
> 
> Ankle mobility is something MOST lifters struggle with as well as weak ankles in general.



I've done both, I prefer arms crossed.


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## Kellkell26 (Feb 13, 2021)

I have balance issues as well and noticed strengthiny my ankles and stretching my hips more have helped. If youre going for more quad development than strength gains try sissy squats. I barely use any weight and such a simple machine burns my quads out more than anything especially superset with lunges. I swear I get a better burn than front squats and less chance of injury so win win. Im not an expert obviously but just my personal experience 🙂


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## Charger69 (Feb 13, 2021)

Tom Plata disagrees that cross armed is bad for you.  LOL


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## BrotherIron (Feb 13, 2021)

Charger69 said:


> Tom Plata disagrees that cross armed is bad for you.  LOL



That Tom Platz, not Plata, lol.  

Not bad for you.  Not the most efficient way to perform them.


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