# Doug Hepburn Method vs 5x5 etc?



## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

Hey everybody! I tried to search to see if there was previous posts about the Doug Hepburn Method and didn't see any. How do you think it stacks up vs other progressive overload programs like a 5x5? I'm currently running a variant of the original. The program is 4 days Squat and Bench Monday and Thursday, Deadlift and OHP Tuesday and Friday. The variant has you hit 5 sets of 2 and add a rep each session until you reach 5 sets of 3, then you add weight and go back to 5 sets of 2 and build again. The power section is followed by a pump section 3 sets once you get to 7 reps each set you add weight and start over again. An exaple of a training day:
Squat 5x2
Bench 5x2
Squat 3x7
Bench 3x7
I've been digging it so far but was wondering if you guys know of a better system for someone who is get back into things. My current working weight for this program are:
215 for Squat
170 for Bench
235 for Deadlift 
120 for OHP

Thanks in advance for any insights of feedback!

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## CJ (Jul 6, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> Hey everybody! I tried to search to see if there was previous posts about the Doug Hepburn Method and didn't see any. How do you think it stacks up vs other progressive overload programs like a 5x5? I'm currently running a variant of the original. The program is 4 days Squat and Bench Monday and Thursday, Deadlift and OHP Tuesday and Friday. The variant has you hit 5 sets of 2 and add a rep each session until you reach 5 sets of 3, then you add weight and go back to 5 sets of 2 and build again. The power section is followed by a pump section 3 sets once you get to 7 reps each set you add weight and start over again. An exaple of a training day:
> Squat 5x2
> Bench 5x2
> Squat 3x7
> ...


What if you're progressing faster than only adding 1 rep per week, for 5 weeks, before adding weight?

Seems like a less than ideal progression model to me.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

Sorry, 1 rep per session and each lift happens twice a week. So adding weight about every 2.5 weeks. 

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## CJ (Jul 6, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> Sorry, 1 rep per session and each lift happens twice a week. So adding weight about every 2.5 weeks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A135U using Tapatalk


Still.... What if that's too little? Why limit yourself?

What if you're using a weight you could get 9 with, but stop at 3. What's the point?

Seems like a lot of wasted time before you figure out where you need to be.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

That's what kind of what my gut was telling me. I'm just not sure on what other programs have a little faster progress. As I've been reading around there seemed to be mixed reviews on 5x5s but the progression seems faster.

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## CJ (Jul 6, 2022)

I'm not a powerlifter, but I've run some 5x5 and 531, that's about the extent of my experience, so take with a grain of salt. I did like 531 though. The amrap sets gave you a good idea how much weight to increase the following wave, it wasn't just an arbitrary 1 rep. 

I also didn't realize this was the PL forum though, so I'd take other's advice over mine.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

CJ said:


> I'm not a powerlifter, but I've run some 5x5 and 531, that's about the extent of my experience, so take with a grain of salt. I did like 531 though. The amrap sets gave you a good idea how much weight to increase the following wave, it wasn't just an arbitrary 1 rep.
> 
> I also didn't realize this was the PL forum though, so I'd take other's advice over mine.


Thanks, CJ! I haven't competed in Powerlifting but definitely trying to focus on gaining strength while I'm losing the weight. If I am able to add 5 lbs every 2.5 weeks or so it could add 100 on to my lifts over a year. Obviously there are stalls and set backs from time to time I just wasn't sure if that was too slow for someone starting out again or if I was leaving anything on the table. I am 28 so I know i can't expect the same level of newbie gains as a real beginner. 

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## Test_subject (Jul 6, 2022)

Neither is a very good program. If you want a good 5 rep based program look at Greyskull LP.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Neither is a very good program. If you want a good 5x5 based program look at Greyskull LP.


Thanks! I'll check that out!

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## Rot-Iron66 (Jul 6, 2022)

It worked for Doug. It can work for anyone, if the person enjoys that routine.
Everything works.* IF* the right person is doing it, and giving it their all.

The most successful routines are the ones the lifter enjoys, he/she cant wait to get back in the gym and give it 100%.


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## Test_subject (Jul 6, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> Thanks! I'll check that out!
> 
> Sent from my SM-A135U using Tapatalk


Linear progression schemes are the best for beginners IMO. You can take advantage of the noob gains and add a lot of weight very quickly with them.

Greyskull is an auto-regulated LP.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

Rot-Iron66 said:


> It worked for Doug. It can work for anyone, if the person enjoys that routine.
> Everything works.* IF* the right person is doing it, and giving it their all.
> 
> The most successful routines are the ones the lifter enjoys, he/she cant wait to get back in the gym and give it 100%.


I appreciate the insight! I next session is tomorrow after only kettlebells on vacation and I am looking forward to it! Sometimes I can over think trying to optimize every thing. What's important is the doing.

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## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Linear progression schemes are the best for beginners IMO. You can take advantage of the noob gains and add a lot of weight very quickly with them.
> 
> Greyskull is an auto-regulated LP.


That's what I was thinking. I want to try to soak as much of that up as possible and as the progression starts to slow as it will naturally slip back to the Hepburn Method as I need more time in between weight additions. 

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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 6, 2022)

5x5 is meant to be an early novice routine, Hepburn is more for an advanced stage when you need really slow progression and lots of sub-max volume to drive strength-skill. Right tool, right job. As others have mentioned, Greyskull is the best fit and my personal favorite for starter routines. Best of all worlds, really. After you begin to stall there, then something like 531, Sheiko, GZCL, SBS, so on would work well.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 6, 2022)

MetatronTurtle said:


> 5x5 is meant to be an early novice routine, Hepburn is more for an advanced stage when you need really slow progression and lots of sub-max volume to drive strength-skill. Right tool, right job. As others have mentioned, Greyskull is the best fit and my personal favorite for starter routines. Best of all worlds, really. After you begin to stall there, then something like 531, Sheiko, GZCL, SBS, so on would work well.


Thanks! Definitely going to check out Greyskull LP. I appreciate your explanation on the differences when it comes to them being different tools for different times! 

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## BigBaldBeardGuy (Jul 6, 2022)

You’re a novice/beginner so you need a linear program where you are adding 5 lbs each week for bench and 10 lbs each week for squat/deadlift. See how far you can get on that linear program before changing to something else. 

This site is very helpful for beginners:





						Free Workout Plans & Spreadsheets | LIFT VAULT
					

Lift Vault helps you get stronger by working smarter. Customize free spreadsheets for powerlifting, bodybuilding, general strength, running, and more.




					liftvault.com
				




A bunch of free programs to decide from. This should get you the beginner programs:





						Free Workout Plan Database - 100+ Workout Routines (2022) - Lift Vault
					

The Lift Vault Workout Routine Database allows you to search through all free workout plans on Lift Vault using a variety of different filters. It is the easiest way to find a workout routine on Lift Vault. Example searches: Here are two example searches to give you an idea of how to use the...




					liftvault.com


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## Slabiathan (Jul 7, 2022)

Thanks! I got the GreySkull LP sheet off there. I also ordered the book! I've been reading and watching vids about it. Seems awesome!


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## CJ (Jul 7, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> Neither is a very good program. If you want a good 5 rep based program look at Greyskull LP.


I just looked at it, I like it a lot, especially the variation that had Chins/Rows alternating with it. 🤩


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## CJ (Jul 7, 2022)

This is what I read on it... https://physiqz.com/workout-routine...lp-best-powerbuilding-routine-beginners-gslp/


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## Slabiathan (Jul 7, 2022)

I'm a little too heavy/weak (depending on perspective lol) for chins but I was definitely looking at that as well!


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## CJ (Jul 7, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> I'm a little too heavy/weak (depending on perspective lol) for chins but I was definitely looking at that as well!


Modify them. Sit on your butt under a bar in the squat rack, do Chinups like that, it's less than your bodyweight since your feet never leave the floor. You can scale as needed.

Or use a Cable Pulldown, or Assisted Pullups machine.


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## Test_subject (Jul 7, 2022)

CJ said:


> I just looked at it, I like it a lot, especially the variation that had Chins/Rows alternating with it. 🤩


It’s a fantastic program. Very well thought-out and balanced, auto regulated and you only need to commit to three days a week. 

It’s my go-to recommendation for beginners and novices.

The only slight tweak I recommend to people is to replace the OHP day with incline bench if they want to get started in powerlifting.


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## CJ (Jul 7, 2022)

Test_subject said:


> It’s a fantastic program. Very well thought-out and balanced, auto regulated and you only need to commit to three days a week.
> 
> It’s my go-to recommendation for beginners and novices.
> 
> The only slight tweak I recommend to people is to replace the OHP day with incline bench if they want to get started in powerlifting.


It's very modifiable to fit needs/wants. 

I wish I found that instead of 531, even though I enjoyed that as well.


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## Test_subject (Jul 7, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> I'm a little too heavy/weak (depending on perspective lol) for chins but I was definitely looking at that as well!





CJ said:


> Modify them. Sit on your butt under a bar in the squat rack, do Chinups like that, it's less than your bodyweight since your feet never leave the floor. You can scale as needed.
> 
> Or use a Cable Pulldown, or Assisted Pullups machine.


Do as CJ said or else buy some bands. Loop one end over the bar and stand in the other end. You can take more or less weight out of the movement by using lighter or heavier bands.

The assisted dip/pull-up machine is another option but I feel that it builds bad habits, so I’m not a fan. That’s just me, though — that’s down to personal preference.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 7, 2022)

Definitely! Right now, I'm working on a concrete slab in the back yard with a squat stand and Bench. I've done inverted rows where you set you up your barbell and hang at an angle pull up. I think I'll be to work that. The bench idea is brilliant to make sure I'm getting consistent ROM!


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## CJ (Jul 7, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> Definitely! Right now, I'm working on a concrete slab in the back yard with a squat stand and Bench. I've done inverted rows where you set you up your barbell and hang at an angle pull up. I think I'll be to work that. The bench idea is brilliant to make sure I'm getting consistent ROM!


Same idea, the inverted row and a pullup that way, just different arm angles, that's it. You'll figure it out.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 7, 2022)

CJ said:


> Same idea, the inverted row and a pullup that way, just different arm angles, that's it. You'll figure it out.


Thanks! Appreciate the advice!


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## Yano (Jul 7, 2022)

I really enjoy my 5x5's still I use it alot I just find I have good results there. I try to base them off my PR , and count backwards by 5 lbs 5 sets and start there , adding 5 lbs at every bump up until i can get all 5 sets and 5  reps then i move up the opener and repeat. 

Got it from listening to JM Blakely but you can use it for any rep n set scheme, any lift ,, and I never limit how fast or when I move up when I use it ... If I can put 10lbs on a lift by the grace of God in a week you can bet your fucking ass imma do it.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 7, 2022)

Yano said:


> I really enjoy my 5x5's still I use it alot I just find I have good results there. I try to base them off my PR , and count backwards by 5 lbs 5 sets and start there , adding 5 lbs at every bump up until i can get all 5 sets and 5  reps then i move up the opener and repeat.
> 
> Got it from listening to JM Blakely but you can use it for any rep n set scheme, any lift ,, and I never limit how fast or when I move up when I use it ... If I can put 10lbs on a lift by the grace of God in a week you can bet your fucking ass imma do it.


Heck yeah! That's sounds awesome!


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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 7, 2022)

Also doing negatives helps a lot. When I was a beginner lard ass, I did band-assisted chins/pulls and finished with unassisted negatives and partials. Eventually, got to the point where it became full pulls and it goes quicker from there.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 7, 2022)

MetatronTurtle said:


> Also doing negatives helps a lot. When I was a beginner lard ass, I did band-assisted chins/pulls and finished with unassisted negatives and partials. Eventually, got to the point where it became full pulls and it goes quicker from there.


Thanks for that! I will definitely add those in!


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## Slabiathan (Jul 8, 2022)

Yano said:


> I really enjoy my 5x5's still I use it alot I just find I have good results there. I try to base them off my PR , and count backwards by 5 lbs 5 sets and start there , adding 5 lbs at every bump up until i can get all 5 sets and 5 reps then i move up the opener and repeat.
> 
> Got it from listening to JM Blakely but you can use it for any rep n set scheme, any lift ,, and I never limit how fast or when I move up when I use it ... If I can put 10lbs on a lift by the grace of God in a week you can bet your fucking ass imma do it.



Thanks for mentioning JM Blakely! I have been listening to him on table talk and I've been enjoying it alot!

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## Yano (Jul 8, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> Thanks for mentioning JM Blakely! I have been listening to him on table talk and I've been enjoying it alot!
> 
> Sent from my SM-A135U using Tapatalk


He's a great speaker and he's got an excellent voice , I always joked that he should do books on audio as well .. JM Blakely reads Moby Dick or some shit hahahaah


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## Slabiathan (Jul 8, 2022)

Yano said:


> He's a great speaker and he's got an excellent voice , I always joked that he should do books on audio as well .. JM Blakely reads Moby Dick or some shit hahahaah


For real! He could do it! He's like an iron yogi hahahaha.

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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 9, 2022)

Imma be honest, listening to people like JM speak gives me an idea on how to do my own cadence and delivery. And it's definitely been doing wonders.


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## Slabiathan (Jul 10, 2022)

MetatronTurtle said:


> Imma be honest, listening to people like JM speak gives me an idea on how to do my own cadence and delivery. And it's definitely been doing wonders.



That's definitely something I need to work on as well. I'm a terrible mumbler. It's gotten better since getting in some leadership roles at work but definitely somewhere I can improve.


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## MetatronTurtle (Jul 10, 2022)

Slabiathan said:


> That's definitely something I need to work on as well. I'm a terrible mumbler. It's gotten better since getting in some leadership roles at work but definitely somewhere I can improve.


Haha, same. It's weird, I can either be really hyper and loud or a quiet speaker. So having to be more mindful on my delivery and pre-planning my sentences instead of going off the cuff helps a lot with getting the point across and "presence". Very important as we climb more into leadership, especially with presentations and briefings.


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