# 2nd cycle critique. Let's go



## Gadawg (Jan 3, 2019)

So Im thinking ahead to my spring cycle. Im gonna wait until Ive been about equal off from my first cycle. First cycle was 500 test cyp. 

In the spring, my work picks up big time. So Im working long hours, outdoors, in a labor intensive job. My diet typically gets worse, my energy for training suffers, and I usually just get worn down. 

I figure a cycle can only help with all of that. I plan to go harder than I ever have in the spring and dont want to lose anything Ive gained over the winter. I dont know what youd call the goal of this cycle but you get the idea.  My thoughts were a 16 week cycle of test enth at 600-750 mg, 500mg mast enth, and maybe end the last 6 weeks with anavar at 60-80mg daily. 

Im concerned about hair loss with mast so Id like to "try it out" before loading up for a full cycle. Can I run mast prop for a couple of weeks during my trt to see if I have shedding?  If so, how much and how long would that typically take to show up?

Assuming that works out, do I need to even run an AI with test if I have the mast or will the mast be enough?  I only ran 1mg per week adex with my 500 mg test cycle and that seemed about perfect. 

Im a little concerned about my joints between the masteron and the anavar but we can jump off that bridge when we get to it. Thanks for any help. 

Also, leaning more toward the 750 side on the test. I dont need pillar calling me a pussy more than he already does.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 3, 2019)

Lol ... Ready for this?

Run tren. Hear me out.

Tren is gonna ruin your ability to get a solid 8 hours. Since you are gonna be all run down doing long days anyway, **** it, run tren and blast thru it.  I was always lean as **** coming into final exams at the end of each semester cause I would run blasts to reduce my need for sleep. I graduated cum loudly


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## Gadawg (Jan 3, 2019)

Damn you Pillar..........


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## Gadawg (Jan 3, 2019)

You answered me so Ill answer you.  While I might be busting ass and working hard in the spring, Ill still be able to get 6-8 hours of sleep a night and I will want them.  Beyond that, the negatives associated with overall health (both physical and mental) just make tren seem like a poor choice to me. 

Ill be honest, a test cycle really helped me mentally get through the worst of the shit I got going on as far as early recovery. And I think a test/mast/var cycle might have even more of a positive effect as far as that goes, but the anxiety/depression that MIGHT come with tren just makes it a no go for me.  I got enough of that on a regular basis these days and by spring my wife will be VERY pregnant. I dont need anything that might compound issues that Ill already have in my life. Spring is pretty damn stressful.  

But I do very much appreciate your input Pillar. Thanks!


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## John Ziegler (Jan 3, 2019)

the last person that thought going against one of POB's recommendations was never seen around here again & that was five goddamn years ago 

he's probably sleeping right now or off somewhere eating a box of gingersnaps so you still have time to reconsider that last post and edit what you got


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## Trump (Jan 3, 2019)

Trt test and tren work wonders

and I suffer from anxiety and had none on low test high tren. Now on anadrol and the anxiety is a bitch


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## Straight30weight (Jan 3, 2019)

Trump said:


> Trt test and tren work wonders
> 
> and I suffer from anxiety and had none on low test high tren. Now on anadrol and the anxiety is a bitch


I think this is the route I’m gonna go


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## Jin (Jan 3, 2019)

All these questions will be irrelevant in a year when you are on a gram a week of TrenboloneReplacementTherapy.


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## PillarofBalance (Jan 3, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> You answered me so Ill answer you.  While I might be busting ass and working hard in the spring, Ill still be able to get 6-8 hours of sleep a night and I will want them.  Beyond that, the negatives associated with overall health (both physical and mental) just make tren seem like a poor choice to me.
> 
> Ill be honest, a test cycle really helped me mentally get through the worst of the shit I got going on as far as early recovery. And I think a test/mast/var cycle might have even more of a positive effect as far as that goes, but the anxiety/depression that MIGHT come with tren just makes it a no go for me.  I got enough of that on a regular basis these days and by spring my wife will be VERY pregnant. I dont need anything that might compound issues that Ill already have in my life. Spring is pretty damn stressful.
> 
> But I do very much appreciate your input Pillar. Thanks!



Haha ok then stick with the mast. 750 test and 400ish mast would be fine. Npp would be a good alternative too for some joint pain relief. Run it around the same dose.


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## snake (Jan 3, 2019)

I like POB's Tren idea for you. Those sides with Tren seem to be dose dependent so maybe keep it light at 300mg/wk. I'm not a mast lover personally for the reasons you mentioned. I also would think that if Mast has the same effect on your sex drive that it does for most guys, you may not want that given your future situation. Take it from a guy who had four children, the booty train is not stopping by your place much any more so there's no reason to have a heightened need for sex during this time.

You could add in the var as a finisher. With a solid diet and training, 4 weeks at 50 mg/day during a Tren cycle will make you look jacked.


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## Gadawg (Jan 3, 2019)

You guys are all confusing me. Lol


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## Gadawg (Jan 3, 2019)

Jin said:


> All these questions will be irrelevant in a year when you are on a gram a week of TrenboloneReplacementTherapy.



My last blood test showed my trenbolone levels were at 0.


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## Trump (Jan 3, 2019)

Make it simple trt test 300mg tren and anavar somewhere in there. Personally I would do it slap bang in the middle of my cycle I did that with tbol and had great results. 



Gadawg said:


> You guys are all confusing me. Lol


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## Seeker (Jan 3, 2019)

Based on your initial opening post I would suggest you just stick to your original plan. Your explanation of how intense your workload, training, wife being very pregnant, and life as hectic as you make it sound to be? running tren is just not a wise idea. You just might crash and burn. If you catch trensomnia during all that ? No man, not worth it. Your initial cycle plan is a good call.


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## Jin (Jan 4, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> My last blood test showed my trenbolone levels were at 0.



Well, that explain your height.


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## Jin (Jan 4, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> My last blood test showed my trenbolone levels were at 0.



Well, that explains your height.


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## Jymjunkie (Jan 4, 2019)

Anyone else have any experience with EQ? If hair loss is a concern from the mast, and days are going to be long and grueling, would eq not give somewhat of a boost in endurance? My old roommate had a similar job and work
schedule and ran a 20wk test,eq,var cycle and this dude looked like he had just left the gym on his way to work in the morning.
just thinking of some other alternatives..


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## Jin (Jan 4, 2019)

I don’t think basing a cycle on Gadawgs work load is necessary. Not to take anything away from him but it’s not as though he is working with a pick in a mine for 10 hours a day. 

Also he is already well conditioned. 

Will boldenone increase endurance? Yes. 

Does he need to run boldenone to be able to effectively clean the hell out of some pools? No.


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## Jymjunkie (Jan 4, 2019)

Jin said:


> I don’t think basing a cycle on Gadawgs work load is necessary. Not to take anything away from him but it’s not as though he is working with a pick in a mine for 10 hours a day.
> 
> Also he is already well conditioned.
> 
> ...



Totally agree with you Jin, i train with Dawg a couple days a week and my guy is a tank.
but after working those long hours and then trying to find that push in the gym to force the last few reps, i can see where bold would be beneficial. not trying to deter the idea of the masteron, but if hairloss were an issue and tren is completely off limits, could bold be used as a second option?


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## Gadawg (Jan 4, 2019)

I dont foresee hairloss being an issue but I can find that out next month pretty quick with a single bottle of prop and then change the plan if necessary. 

Jin's right. I dont need a cycle to get me through the work.  It was more to keep from losing muscle, motivate me more to keep going 100 percent in the gym, and harden up a little for summer.  

Should be fun!


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## Gadawg (Jan 4, 2019)

And I dont clean pools Jin. Not usually anyway. Lol

I have a brother for that. 

If you need a heater installed though, or pretty much anything else fixed, then Im your huckleberry


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## Gadawg (Jan 4, 2019)

Also, based on JymJunkie's earlier post, Im considering changing my handle to "The Tank".  Will reevaluate this idea in the AM when the Indica has worn off.


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## Mythos (Jan 4, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> I dont foresee hairloss being an issue but I can find that out next month pretty quick with a single bottle of prop and then change the plan if necessary.
> 
> Jin's right. I dont need a cycle to get me through the work.  It was more to keep from losing muscle, motivate me more to keep going 100 percent in the gym, and harden up a little for summer.
> 
> Should be fun!



Nobody listens to me but I swear topical nizoral shampoo really helps with mild hair thinning.


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## Seeker (Jan 4, 2019)

Mythos said:


> Nobody listens to me but I swear topical nizoral shampoo really helps with mild hair thinning.


Haha I believe you man. Nizoral has been well known in the bodybuilding world to help with thinning hair. There are a couple others as well that aren't known so well but are pretty good too.


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## Straight30weight (Jan 4, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Also, based on JymJunkie's earlier post, Im considering changing my handle to "The Tank".  Will reevaluate this idea in the AM when the Indica has worn off.


You should also consider “Jymjunkies guy”


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## Gadawg (Jan 4, 2019)

Straight30weight said:


> You should also consider “Jymjunkies guy”




Gonna be tough. Might have to start a poll.


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## NbleSavage (Jan 4, 2019)

Late to the party, but I'll weigh-in anyway. I'd stick with yer Test / Mast combo for a 2nd cycle. Couple reasons...

- You mentioned ye have a lot going on in yer life outside the gym (pregnant wife, long hours, bump in work-stress in the spring). Tren may roll of ye in terms of sides and it may not. As stated, trensomnia is a b1tch and tren can lead to spiked anxiety, aggression / depression. IMO, not the right time of life for ye to test those waters

- Mast (hair loss aside) is one compound that has consistently elevated my overall headspace / state of well-being. Not in a "I'm going to destroy the gym and kill ye all" kind of way, more of a general "alpha" / "I got this" kind of way. Yea, it can make ye want to hump the fireplace also, but nothing wrong with some pregnant lovin' from my perspective - can also make yer Missus feel a bit more womanly instead of like a baby-making blob   (if she's feeling that way)

Plenty of time once things settle for ye to hop the Tren Train. I'd keep it simple for now. Adding Mast should get ye the kind of bump ye need to both survive the work day and to survive yer pregnant Missus.


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## Gadawg (Jan 4, 2019)

NbleSavage said:


> Late to the party, but I'll weigh-in anyway. I'd stick with yer Test / Mast combo for a 2nd cycle. Couple reasons...
> 
> - You mentioned ye have a lot going on in yer life outside the gym (pregnant wife, long hours, bump in work-stress in the spring). Tren may roll of ye in terms of sides and it may not. As stated, trensomnia is a b1tch and tren can lead to spiked anxiety, aggression / depression. IMO, not the right time of life for ye to test those waters
> 
> ...




Thanks very much. Exactly what Ive been thinking. 

Now, from the experts:  as far as AI's go, what would you all guesstimate Id need?  I know only bloodwork will tell me but I dont super aromatize and Im getting pretty low in bf already. I figured Id do what I did on 500 and just take .5mg adex on pinning days and let the masteron do the rest and then up the adex if necessary.  

Also, because masteron works by blocking receptors, can you really trust a blood test or will they always be skewed towards high E2 without really feeling the repercussions of high E2?


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## NbleSavage (Jan 4, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Thanks very much. Exactly what Ive been thinking.
> 
> Now, from the experts:  as far as AI's go, what would you all guesstimate Id need?  I know only bloodwork will tell me but I dont super aromatize and Im getting pretty low in bf already. I figured Id do what I did on 500 and just take .5mg adex on pinning days and let the masteron do the rest and then up the adex if necessary.
> 
> Also, because masteron works by blocking receptors, can you really trust a blood test or will they always be skewed towards high E2 without really feeling the repercussions of high E2?



Adex .5mg 2x weekly should be plenty at yer proposed Test dosing. Like you said, the bloods will tell and ye can adjust as needed. Too much adex can muck up yer joints in addition to crashin' yr E2.


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## Jymjunkie (Jan 5, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Gonna be tough. Might have to start a poll.



+1 for “JymJunkie’s Guy”


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## Gadawg (Jan 20, 2019)

Bumping around the thought of superdrol over var.  Thoughts?  Keep in mind Ill be training for and competing in a powerlifting meet during all this.


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## Trump (Jan 20, 2019)

Anadrol has rocketed my strength 



Gadawg said:


> Bumping around the thought of superdrol over var.  Thoughts?  Keep in mind Ill be training for and competing in a powerlifting meet during all this.


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## Gadawg (Jan 20, 2019)

Trump said:


> Anadrol has rocketed my strength



Yeah, I considered that but Im already on blood pressure meds so Im concerned about a drug that would definitely raise it more.  Anavar is appealing because it's really mild and supedrol bc it isnt known for large bumps in BP but anadrol is notorious for it.


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## Trump (Jan 20, 2019)

With 8 hour half life is it not something you could just keep an eye on and stop if need be? 



Gadawg said:


> Yeah, I considered that but Im already on blood pressure meds so Im concerned about a drug that would definitely raise it more.  Anavar is appealing because it's really mild and supedrol bc it isnt known for large bumps in BP but anadrol is notorious for it.


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## Jin (Jan 20, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Yeah, I considered that but Im already on blood pressure meds so Im concerned about a drug that would definitely raise it more.  Anavar is appealing because it's really mild and supedrol bc it isnt known for large bumps in BP but anadrol is notorious for it.



Been hypertensive and medicated since age 14. Always a concern for me. Anadrol didn’t significantly raise my BP.


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## Gadawg (Jan 20, 2019)

Thanks guys


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## Viduus (Jan 20, 2019)

Don’t read tread but I saw you skip over POBs comment. I learned the hard way. (Am learning)


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## Gadawg (Jan 20, 2019)

Viduus said:


> Don’t read tread but I saw you skip over POBs comment. I learned the hard way. (Am learning)



Im not running tren


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## Viduus (Jan 20, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Im not running tren



I’m with you but somehow he’s going to turn out to be right :32 (11):


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## Gadawg (Jan 20, 2019)

Viduus said:


> I’m with you but somehow he’s going to turn out to be right :32 (11):



I would get anxiety just from running the stuff whether the drug caused it or not. Lol


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## bigdog (Jan 21, 2019)

Test tren and mast has been good to me over the years. I was already 70% bald long before any cycles or trt and I'm still exactly the same. It didn't make me lose any hair. Tren sides like everything else affect everyone differently but at 300 I'd say youd be good. I usually run drol in the beginning and it doesn't mess with my blood pressure. Finishing with var after my tren cycle made me a vascular mofo and looking jacked.  Tren isn't for everyone but I'd recommend at least try it.


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## Gadawg (Feb 10, 2019)

Well, cycle plans changed.  Ive been running 200 mg masteron enth for a little while now to try it out and I started shedding hair pretty good.  So, I tried anyway.  

So this cycle will be test/var.  Test at 750/wk, just havent exactly figured out the anavar timing.  Kickstart for 3 weeks and then close for three weeks at 40mg/day was my thought.  What do you guys think?


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## Trump (Feb 10, 2019)

I loved oral right in the middle of cycle, I felt I kept all the gains



Gadawg said:


> Well, cycle plans changed.  Ive been running 200 mg masteron enth for a little while now to try it out and I started shedding hair pretty good.  So, I tried anyway.
> 
> So this cycle will be test/var.  Test at 750/wk, just havent exactly figured out the anavar timing.  Kickstart for 3 weeks and then close for three weeks at 40mg/day was my thought.  What do you guys think?


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## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

PillarofBalance said:


> Lol ... Ready for this?
> 
> Run tren. Hear me out.
> 
> Tren is gonna ruin your ability to get a solid 8 hours. Since you are gonna be all run down doing long days anyway, **** it, run tren and blast thru it.  I was always lean as **** coming into final exams at the end of each semester cause I would run blasts to reduce my need for sleep. I graduated cum loudly



YES 

K.I.S.S. is what you need to do!

16 weeks. 750mg Test E+500mg Tren Base. Test pinned 1x a week, Tren Base pinned 2-3x a week.

Almost similar to next blast (1.5g Test E+500mg Tren Base) lol+


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## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Well, cycle plans changed.  Ive been running 200 mg masteron enth for a little while now to try it out and I started shedding hair pretty good.  So, I tried anyway.
> 
> So this cycle will be test/var.  Test at 750/wk, just havent exactly figured out the anavar timing.  Kickstart for 3 weeks and then close for three weeks at 40mg/day was my thought.  What do you guys think?



**** no, do tren like POB and me says. And my opinion is my previous reply.


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## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> I would get anxiety just from running the stuff whether the drug caused it or not. Lol



Why? No reason to have anxiety over it. I AM biased though, since I don't get sides except night sweat.

Regardless, Tren Base allows you to change things quickly if sides become too severe.


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## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

I have pretty terrible anxiety day to day anymore man. Tren is just not something I need in my life at this time with a pregnant wife and my stressful season coming on.  I need to feel good. 

Honestly, that's the only reason I wanted to run masteron at all. 

And I felt pretty solid on 500 mg test.  I had zero sides and made pretty appreciable strength gains.  Im pretty sure that after 16 weeks of test/var (var for probably 8-10 total), Id stick a 450 bench.  (Go ahead and doubt me snake, I dare you)


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## Seeker (Feb 11, 2019)

40 mgs Anavar might be a bit low but give it a shot. You can always bump it a bit higher. Unless of course you're lucky enough to get pharma. And yes, smart choice staying away from tren. dont listen to bullshit


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## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

Seeker said:


> 40 mgs Anavar might be a bit low but give it a shot. You can always bump it a bit higher. Unless of course you're lucky enough to get pharma. And yes, smart choice staying away from tren. dont listen to bullshit



Dont know why I typed 40. Was thinking 50/day in two doses divided 30/20 but could go up from there if necessary


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## Seeker (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> Dont know why I typed 40. Was thinking 50/day in two doses divided 30/20 but could go up from there if necessary



Haha ok then! give it a ride


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## Bro Bundy (Feb 11, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> Why? No reason to have anxiety over it. I AM biased though, since I don't get sides except night sweat.
> 
> Regardless, Tren Base allows you to change things quickly if sides become too severe.


you didnt get sides ..Every cycle and blast can be different..So dont always expect to be side  effect free..As you age your body changes and will respond differently


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## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> I have pretty terrible anxiety day to day anymore man. Tren is just not something I need in my life at this time with a pregnant wife and my stressful season coming on.  I need to feel good.
> 
> Honestly, that's the only reason I wanted to run masteron at all.
> 
> And I felt pretty solid on 500 mg test.  I had zero sides and made pretty appreciable strength gains.  Im pretty sure that after 16 weeks of test/var (var for probably 8-10 total), Id stick a 450 bench.  (Go ahead and doubt me snake, I dare you)



Damn, that sucks. At least you're do what you can. Get that ****in 450 bench! It ain't shit for you-you already got the 450 in ya. That bench press gonna feel like a lil bitch when you pop out 450 with ****in ease!

No sarcasm, I talk shit when goin' for goals. Doin it for _you_ this time around. I'm proud for you.

Since I use DBs exclusively, I dunno my BB bench, but you may be ahead of me! I gotta catch up, get my max to 210lb DB's and show you up!


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## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> Damn, that sucks. At least you're do what you can. Get that ****in 450 bench! It ain't shit for you-you already got the 450 in ya. That bench press gonna feel like a lil bitch when you pop out 450 with ****in ease!
> 
> No sarcasm, I talk shit when goin' for goals. Doin it for _you_ this time around. I'm proud for you.
> 
> Since I use DBs exclusively, I dunno my BB bench, but you may be ahead of me! I gotta catch up, get my max to 210lb DB's and show you up!




I wish my gym had the damn dumbells so I could at least try. Lol

Ill be watching for your progress!


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## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> I wish my gym had the damn dumbells so I could at least try. Lol
> 
> Ill be watching for your progress!



In my 12th year of lifting/bodybuilding (2018), I chose to K.I.S.S. and made my return to training+goals. BB bench press+all chest exercises, except for flat bench, were removed. My goal is to be the strongest human alive. Disregarding probability, DB Flat Bench was assigned as my chest exercise. If you bench press 220lb DBs for reps, you'll be the strongest human in bench press.

So thats why I exclusively use DBs-more difficulty, and if you bench 220lb DBs perfect for reps, it's universally agreed that person will be the strongest bencher. Try em out some time for a long period! You may end up like me and start believing BB bench=the easy way out lol

Edit: I have a full home gym since 2012. I still have to duct tape my 120s with curl bar plates so I can train with 135 and up, until I buy 150s and 200s later. After 3 weeks on 130s, im ready to go up. Only spent 3 weeks on 120s, too lol Im progressing too fast


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## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

My gold's goes to 130s. Not sure how many reps Id get with them but my work sets on incline usually start with 120s and drop down as I get tired. I love dumbell inclines but I dont feel dumbell flat bench as well in my chest.  Im sure it all depends on the individual though.  

You should start a log on this.  I want to see you benching the cyr dumbells. Lol


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## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> My gold's goes to 130s. Not sure how many reps Id get with them but my work sets on incline usually start with 120s and drop down as I get tired. I love dumbell inclines but I dont feel dumbell flat bench as well in my chest.  Im sure it all depends on the individual though.
> 
> You should start a log on this.  I want to see you benching the cyr dumbells. Lol



Yea, everyone has their own physiology. Do you think your tonic (stabilizing) muscles may be the reason why your chest has impaired activation?

I truly believe DB usage will make a person stronger compared to BB usage. I feel the reason DB bench isn't used in PLing is because it's harder and possibly more risk. Think of how strong a person would be if they DB flat benched 739lbs raw!

I thought about doing a log once I get to..oh, maybe 180lb DBs. Think of that thread, watching me as I try to reach 200's with being so close.


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## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

hulksmash said:


> Yea, everyone has their own physiology. Do you think your tonic (stabilizing) muscles may be the reason why your chest has impaired activation?
> 
> I truly believe DB usage will make a person stronger compared to BB usage. I feel the reason DB bench isn't used in PLing is because it's harder and possibly more risk. Think of how strong a person would be if they DB flat benched 739lbs raw!
> 
> I thought about doing a log once I get to..oh, maybe 180lb DBs. Think of that thread, watching me as I try to reach 200's with being so close.




It's just a mind muscle connection issue. Some exercises people love and some they hate.  I really like my dumbells at a 30 degree incline so it's not very steep. That's the sweet spot for deep pec stretching with dumbells.  

As for powerlifting with dumbells, I think it would be hard to call a rep "good" once you got to really struggling.  

I think you're right though that dumbells have a lot of advantages and people pigeon hole themselves into sticking with bar only. I use dumbells on every chest day, they just arent always first.  Im a yates guy mostly though, so at most I'm only doing 2 work sets per exercise.  Usually just one.  Ive seen by far my biggest gains working this way. 

Once this test gets going good, Ill post a vid of a real brutal bench drop set. 405-315-225-135. Gonna be fun!


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## hulksmash (Feb 11, 2019)

Gadawg said:


> It's just a mind muscle connection issue. Some exercises people love and some they hate.  I really like my dumbells at a 30 degree incline so it's not very steep. That's the sweet spot for deep pec stretching with dumbells.
> 
> As for powerlifting with dumbells, I think it would be hard to call a rep "good" once you got to really struggling.
> 
> ...



Do you go all the way down where you feel your pectorals stretch? I notice a lot of people NEVER do the most important part of bench press:

Lowering your elbows below your body (or as low as possibly can). That "stretch" part of the lift is where you get the most tension and mind+muscle connection.

Good point on judging. I guess they would have to judge on doing 1 rep with "perfect form". Kinda hard lol


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## Gadawg (Feb 11, 2019)

Yep. Deep deep stretch with dumbells


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## The Tater (Feb 12, 2019)

Keep up the good work Gadawg! Woof!


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