# Is cardarine carcinogenic in humans?



## nationrogue03123 (Jan 8, 2022)

anybody have experience with cardarine and want to share if they've had any bad experiences ie. tumors with it? I've been looking into it for sports, seems like the doses used on mice was way to high but the studies don't post all the information. still it's concerning that the studies by GKS, a big multimillion dollar pharma company would stop researching into such a potentially profitable med. 

just leave thoughts, was thinking 10mg daily for about 7 weeks - yes or no?


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## Send0 (Jan 8, 2022)

I use cardarine frequently, 25mg for up to 3 months at a time.. no health issues.


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## silentlemon1011 (Jan 8, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I use cardarine frequently, 25mg for up to 3 months at a time.. no health issues.



I saw the title and was like
"Loooool, tagging Send0
But then you were already here
Fuck you
Ruined my night


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## silentlemon1011 (Jan 8, 2022)

nationrogue03123 said:


> anybody have experience with cardarine and want to share if they've had any bad experiences ie. tumors with it? I've been looking into it for sports, seems like the doses used on mice was way to high but the studies don't post all the information. still it's concerning that the studies by GKS, a big multimillion dollar pharma company would stop researching into such a potentially profitable med.
> 
> just leave thoughts, was thinking 10mg daily for about 7 weeks - yes or no?




There are aa few solid threads here doing some breakdown of the stuff
Information like the calcs of the dosing, the genetic alterations to the mice etc.
Give them a read, interesting information


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## RiseUp (May 19, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I use cardarine frequently, 25mg for up to 3 months at a time.. no health issues.


Didnt you notice worsening of liver function? Also, decrease of strength at gym? I am asking because I saw study about it being worsening already damaged liver and change of muscle fibers. 
Thank you for answer.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 19, 2022)

RiseUp said:


> Didnt you notice worsening of liver function? Also, decrease of strength at gym? I am asking because I saw study about it being worsening already damaged liver and change of muscle fibers.
> Thank you for answer.



Ill ljust leave this Cardarine Liver study right here. ..









						GW501516-activated PPARβ/δ promotes liver fibrosis via p38-JNK MAPK-induced hepatic stellate cell proliferation
					

After liver injury, the repair process comprises activation and proliferation of hepatic stellate cells (HSCs), which produce extracellular matrix (ECM) proteins. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor beta/delta (PPARβ/δ) is highly ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## Send0 (May 19, 2022)

RiseUp said:


> Didnt you notice worsening of liver function? Also, decrease of strength at gym? I am asking because I saw study about it being worsening already damaged liver and change of muscle fibers.
> Thank you for answer.


No... My liver bio markers were better while on it.


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

Oxandrolone enhances hepatic ketogenesis in adult men - PubMed
					

This study shows that short-term administration of oxandrolone results in marked increases in hepatic ketogenesis. This finding is consistent with an increased influx of fatty acids into the liver secondary to lipoprotein lipolysis by increased hepatic lipase. However, the possibility cannot be...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




Definitely see a good stack here lol


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## RiseUp (May 19, 2022)

Send0 said:


> No... My liver bio markers were better while on it.


Did you have any liver problems before?


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## Yano (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> Oxandrolone enhances hepatic ketogenesis in adult men - PubMed
> 
> 
> This study shows that short-term administration of oxandrolone results in marked increases in hepatic ketogenesis. This finding is consistent with an increased influx of fatty acids into the liver secondary to lipoprotein lipolysis by increased hepatic lipase. However, the possibility cannot be...
> ...


This looks really cool but can one of you smart motherfuckers dumb it down and explain for us glue n marker sniffers ? There's more 50 cent words in there than I can count.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 19, 2022)

Yano said:


> This looks really cool but can one of you smart motherfuckers dumb it down and explain for us glue n marker sniffers ? There's more 50 cent words in there than I can count.



Lemons super smart synopsis.

Anavar at 10mg
Mad good for you, wont fuck up lipids either homie


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## silentlemon1011 (May 19, 2022)

Yano said:


> This looks really cool but can one of you smart motherfuckers dumb it down and explain for us glue n marker sniffers ? There's more 50 cent words in there than I can count.



Oh shit
I missed the part where you said "Smart Motherfucker"
I just saw the motherfucker part

I digress


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

Yano said:


> This looks really cool but can one of you smart motherfuckers dumb it down and explain for us glue n marker sniffers ? There's more 50 cent words in there than I can count.



I was gonna call in lemon. Seems he did a better job than I could


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## Yano (May 19, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Lemons super smart synopsis.
> 
> Anavar at 10mg
> Mad good for you, wont fuck up lipids either homie


See thats the type of shit I need ,, take this , it does this . ok bye !!  👍 😃


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## Yano (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> I was gonna call in lemon. Seems he did a better job than I could


I'm like 2 points in IQ above most tool boxes. I look up A LOT of shit i learn here hahaha.


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

Yano said:


> I'm like 2 points in IQ above most tool boxes. I look up A LOT of shit i learn here hahaha.



I saw the study title and used it as justification to take more anavar.


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## Yano (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> I saw the study title and used it as justification to take more anavar.


Perfect now I have clinical study and live control group to prove to the wife that its "safe" muahaahahah I lubs you guys !!


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## silentlemon1011 (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> I saw the study title and used it as justification to take more anavar.



10mg ED already started
lmao


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> 10mg ED already started
> lmao



I only have in 20mg. I guess it is what it is


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## silentlemon1011 (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> I only have in 20mg. I guess it is what it is



I got you homie
See ya saturday lmao


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I got you homie
> See ya saturday lmao



Steph only has enough for her next run. I thought of stealing hers


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## silentlemon1011 (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> Steph only has enough for her next run. I thought of stealing hers



I have about 200 or 300 @ 5mg Anavar

Just in case


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## silentlemon1011 (May 19, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I have about 200 or 300 @ 5mg Anavar
> 
> Just in case



I get fidgety if i dont have a war chest


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I have about 200 or 300 @ 5mg Anavar
> 
> Just in case



I would like this post twice if I could


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## Send0 (May 19, 2022)

RiseUp said:


> Did you have any liver problems before?


No, but they still improved above my baseline. If I'm going by just the difference in numbers, then the "improvement" was significant.


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

I haven't run more than a week or two here or there since 2020. I'm itching to get back to full steam! Soon as bloodwork and full range of motion are back! Must get bigger again.  Fucking 3 months of Jefferson curls, I dying inside


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## Big Bro 7 (May 19, 2022)

I have quite a bit of experience with cardarine. I have only positive things to say about it but the studies on rats are concerning. As you already pointed out they were running super high doses for extended periods of time (2 years at 50mg for a rat) in the study I read. 

It increases your cardiovascular performance significantly, and oddly enough makes it enjoyable. I used it to train for a half marathon as well as several Spartan races. I run it at 20mg per day for 4 weeks and then take four weeks off repeat, until your event or you reach your goal. Don’t take it unless your going to be doing lots of cardio. It also helps with muscle endurance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

Big Bro 7 said:


> Don’t take it unless your going to be doing lots of cardio



What makes you say this?

Edit:  there is a long laundry list of benefits not only in the endurance world.  Insulin sensitivity is a big one off the top of my head but also controlling cholesterol off blast.


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## RiR0 (May 19, 2022)

Rats aren’t humans.


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

RiR0 said:


> Rats aren’t humans.



Humans aren't rats.


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## RiR0 (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> Humans aren't rats.


If only more people understood this.


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## Big Bro 7 (May 19, 2022)

Human_Backhoe said:


> What makes you say this?
> 
> Edit: there is a long laundry list of benefits not only in the endurance world. Insulin sensitivity is a big one off the top of my head but also controlling cholesterol off blast.



There is a long list of things it helps with outside of endurance. I just mean in terms of using cardarine for cutting and weight loss, it’s not magic. You still gotta put in the work. The good news is it doesn’t make you all jittery like most weight loss drugs 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Human_Backhoe (May 19, 2022)

Big Bro 7 said:


> There is a long list of things it helps with outside of endurance. I just mean in terms of using cardarine for cutting and weight loss, it’s not magic. You still gotta put in the work. The good news is it doesn’t make you all jittery like most weight loss drugs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Completely agree on weight loss! There is absolutely no substitute for caloric deficit. By cardio or diet. Preferably some cardio for health.


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## RiR0 (May 19, 2022)

Big Bro 7 said:


> There is a long list of things it helps with outside of endurance. I just mean in terms of using cardarine for cutting and weight loss, it’s not magic. You still gotta put in the work. The good news is it doesn’t make you all jittery like most weight loss drugs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well nothing is magic and it definitely still has uses in a fatloss phase out side of cardio.


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## Adrenolin (May 19, 2022)

I've taken it on and off since around 2016. Ask me if I believe it's carcinogenic in another 20 or 30 years... still "testing".


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## optimisticair (May 20, 2022)

highlyyyyyy likely it's a carcinogen. but your cardio will be insane as fucc






^ really great overview of it. better than Derek, moreplatesmoredates overview.
the reason cardarine wasn't studied in humans is because there is a mechanism in cardarine pathway that starts cancer. all the mice in the study had cancer  in every organ/bone in their body at death. the mice ran it at a dose of a human equivalent of like 40mg everyday for 50 years. 

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/cardarine/comments/nkq3go

^ 
here is a top post on reddit r/cardarine about some guy with medical documentation of getting like 7 tumors. not everyone will end up like this guy, and it probably wasn't 100% cardarine sure, but if i had to estimate, i'd say it was 100% cardarine. i'm not a doctor.

i ran cardarine for like 2-3 month last summer recreationally (i don't compete, i just lift as a hobby) before finding out it was a carcinogen. if i could go back in time and throw it out, i would. sure, i don't have cancer *right now* but there isn't enough mice studies to show that if any/some exposure to cardarine would raise your chance of getting cancer later in life. anyways, fuc it dude, do whatever. playing devil's advocate, you could be taking 500mg of test and get a heart attack at 30 or 40 in which taking cardarine would help raise HDL, and lower LDL and perhaps make you live to 35 or 45 where you die of cancer, slowly, instead of quickly from a heart attack. obvy, i'm not a doctor, but a lot of sleazy PED salesmen on youtube will tell you " don't be a pussy, use my code to get 10% off your purchase" while only going over the benefits of cardarine and obmitting the cancer in all the mice study. it hasn't been tested to cause cancer in humans because it would be extremely unethical to use a compound that will *highly likely* ( like 99.99%) cause cancer in all human subjects if the human subjects if they used 40mg for 40 years. the PED salemen degenerates just claim "no data so support cancer in humans bro, use my code, support me financially" 

/rant


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

optimisticair said:


> highlyyyyyy likely it's a carcinogen. but your cardio will be insane as fucc
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're not a doctor, and reddit is a bad source of information for things like this. Too many people who have no training or education in understanding pharmacokinetics, biology, or chemistry. They don't even understand how to determine how a studied might be flawed or why.

Here's a write up I did. That entire study is inherently flawed. Anyone claiming they got tumors from cardarine is just guessing that is the cause. The fact is there's no way to prove it.






						What are you using to increase HDL?
					

Farmed seafood has its own issues.



					www.ugbodybuilding.com
				




I will not say if cardarine does or does not cause cancer. I will say there is evidence it is liver supportive, improved cholesterol, improves insulin sensitivity, and much more.

I will also say who the hell in their right mind would take this non-stop for 75% of their lifespan (that's what the rat study did)..  non stop! That would be like saying run Test or Tren at 1 gram, non-stop, from age 0 until age 75 (using 100 year life span to make math simple). Obviously that's a stupid idea, and obviously you will have issues. Do stupid things, and suffer stupid consequences.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Jesus, the entire basis of that guys YouTube video is that there are many studies on rats and mice. He doubles down on this so hard.

We are not rats, and we are not mice. I want 16 minutes of my life back.

If we want to be speculative then why don't we ask ourselves why it never got to human studies. Is it really because of the rat studies? Because even later studies and analysis call out the flaws in the rat studies.

Could it possibly be because it's not patented, and maybe because it addresses so many health issues that other drugs that generate revenue and massive profit would become unnecessary? There is a lot of money to be made in heart disease, diabetes, anything tied to obesity really.

I'm not saying why it did or didn't get to human studies, but if we're going to go to imagination land then let's use our imagination and look at this from all angles, and not one single myopic perspective.

I use cardarine occassionally, but I don't tell people that the should or shouldn't use it. I will however give people information if they ask for it, so that they can make their own decisions.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Also this 🙄

Basically it says that sure, some things translate between rodents and humans... but that it's not consistent.

Rodents are not a good proxy for humans, and at best should only be used to get an idea if a possibility exists. Just because it's in rodents does not mean it will translate to humans.









						How good are rodent models of carcinogenesis in predicting efficacy in humans? A systematic review and meta-analysis of colon chemoprevention in rats, mice and men - PubMed
					

Tumours in rodent and human colon share many histological and genetic features. To know if rodent models of colon carcinogenesis are good predictors of chemopreventive efficacy in humans, we conducted a meta-analysis of aspirin, beta-carotene, calcium, and wheat bran studies. Controlled...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Jesus... @optimisticair is the same guy who brought us this gem, which I also called out in this thread. No wonder I was so immediately annoyed by his post here on cardarine.






						does MK 677 + cialis + cock pump/jelqing increase cock size? srs
					

What the fuk is goin on in here, This guy still got the small PP after all this time....😄



					www.ugbodybuilding.com


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## ftf (May 21, 2022)

Cardarine increases dick size.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (May 21, 2022)

Skip the cardarine and read a little about Telmisartan. Like cardarine, it’s a PPAR but it’s also good for a variety of our side effects, including blood pressure. And it didn’t fail the mouse cancer studies. 40 to 80 mg/day. 

From wiki:
In addition to blocking the renin–angiotensin system, telmisartan acts as a selective modulator of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PPAR-γ), a central regulator of insulin and glucose metabolism. It is believed that telmisartan's dual mode of action may provide protective benefits against the vascular and renal damage caused by diabetesand cardiovascular disease (CVD).[12]

Telmisartan's activity at the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor delta (PPAR-δ) receptor has prompted speculation around its potential as a sport doping agent as an alternative to GW 501516.[13] Telmisartan activates PPAR-δ receptors in several tissues.[14][15][16][17]

Also, telmisartan has a PPAR-γ agonist activity.


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## Adrenolin (May 21, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Jesus... @optimisticair is the same guy who brought us this gem, which I also called out in this thread. No wonder I was so immediately annoyed by his post here on cardarine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Smells like troll to me.. specially when they admit it in the chatbox late at night.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Adrenolin said:


> Smells like troll to me.. specially when they admit it in the chatbox late at night.
> View attachment 22547


Thank you for this sir 😍. My eyes can't be every where. I will quietly take care of this.... quietly.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 21, 2022)

I mean
Lets not forget that Cardarine test was done on rats that were genetically altered to get cancer.

So lets not get crazy about the cancer rates of cancer rats


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (May 21, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I mean
> Lets not forget that Cardarine test was done on rats that were genetically altered to get cancer.
> 
> So lets not get crazy about the cancer rates of cancer rats


* Mice


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## twitchy88 (May 21, 2022)

ftf said:


> Cardarine increases dick size.


How many MG a day and for how long?


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## Thebiggestdumbass (May 21, 2022)

Send0 said:


> Jesus... @optimisticair is the same guy who brought us this gem, which I also called out in this thread. No wonder I was so immediately annoyed by his post here on cardarine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm don't want to pick a side on this because I'm not studied enough. I do want to ask, would you personally run Cardarine with compounds that are heavily liver toxic/mess your lipids up to counteract the side effects of said compounds?


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> I'm don't want to pick a side on this because I'm not studied enough. I do want to ask, would you personally run Cardarine with compounds that are heavily liver toxic/mess your lipids up to counteract the side effects of said compounds?


I'm glad you asked. I would use it, but that doesn't mean I would advise others to do the same. Instead I would present my results, the various studies (including the flawed rodent cancer studies), and tell people to make a decision based on their comfort level of the risk profile.

With that said, see the link below... Again keep in mind the link below is just one study. I recommend for anyone interested to investigate for more information on their own and make their own decision.









						GW501516-activated PPARβ/δ promotes liver fibrosis via p38-JNK MAPK-induced hepatic stellate cell proliferation
					

After liver injury, the repair process comprises activation and proliferation of hepatic stellate cells (HSCs), which produce extracellular matrix (ECM) proteins. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor beta/delta (PPARβ/δ) is highly ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I'm glad you asked. I would use it, but that doesn't mean I would advise others to do the same. Instead I would present my results, the various studies (including the flawed rodent cancer studies), and tell people to make a decision based on their comfort level of the risk profile.
> 
> With that said, see the link below... Again keep in mind the link below is just one study. I recommend for anyone interested to investigate for more information on their own and make their own decision.
> 
> ...


For reference, fibrosis in the study linked occurs from the liver repairing itself.

Fibrosis sounds scary, but it is a natural process of the liver to repair cells. It's excessive fibrosis that is the issue, such as what is seen in cirrhosis of the liver.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 21, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> * Mice



Yup
forgot
Thanks for correction

Also yeah, on that note
As you know, im starting Telmisartan as well

Since its also a PPAR and ill need it on cycle for BP... Cardarine seems a little redundant ya know?


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Send0 said:


> I'm glad you asked. I would use it, but that doesn't mean I would advise others to do the same. Instead I would present my results, the various studies (including the flawed rodent cancer studies), and tell people to make a decision based on their comfort level of the risk profile.
> 
> With that said, see the link below... Again keep in mind the link below is just one study. I recommend for anyone interested to investigate for more information on their own and make their own decision.
> 
> ...


also, I must stress again that we are not rodents. I provided that link to show the possibility, not to imply the results are repeatable in humans.

I can say I see improved bio markers in my blood work. While this makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside, I acknowledge that bio marker values may not always reflect what's actually happening in the body... for example, its possible to have excellent cholesterol but still suffer from heart disease.

I made this post to be transparent and to reinforce that animal model studies may not translate to humans


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## Thebiggestdumbass (May 21, 2022)

Send0 said:


> For reference, fibrosis in the study linked occurs from the liver repairing itself.
> 
> Fibrosis sounds scary, but it is a natural process of the liver to repair cells. It's excessive fibrosis that is the issue, such as what is seen in cirrhosis of the liver.





Send0 said:


> I'm glad you asked. I would use it, but that doesn't mean I would advise others to do the same. Instead I would present my results, the various studies (including the flawed rodent cancer studies), and tell people to make a decision based on their comfort level of the risk profile.
> 
> With that said, see the link below... Again keep in mind the link below is just one study. I recommend for anyone interested to investigate for more information on their own and make their own decision.
> 
> ...


With this then, do you have anecdotal evidence of Cardarine keeping lipids in range on harsh compounds? Maybe some bloodwork for a adrol run with and without Cardarine or a tren run with and without? 

I'm only asking because I think a humans bloodwork on the subject would be more applicable than rat/mice studies.


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## BigBaldBeardGuy (May 21, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Yup
> forgot
> Thanks for correction
> 
> ...


Literally works the SAME was as cardarine but w/o arguing about cancer studies. 

Guys need to STFU and read every once in a while. Cardarine is ONLY popular cause the SARMS and peptide companies PUSH it. 

I don’t know if Cardarine causes cancer so I’m just going to make an educated decision??? That’s as retarded as it gets when there’s OTHER options.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Yup
> forgot
> Thanks for correction
> 
> ...


I'm not convinced it works on the same level as cardarine. I think the effect is very muted in comparison.

With that said, telmisartan is a good medication. Let us know if you see the same stamina effect that you see from cardarine, but I doubt you will. I'll be happy to be wrong on this.


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## TODAY (May 21, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Skip the cardarine and read a little about Telmisartan. Like cardarine, it’s a PPAR but it’s also good for a variety of our side effects, including blood pressure. And it didn’t fail the mouse cancer studies. 40 to 80 mg/day.
> 
> From wiki:
> In addition to blocking the renin–angiotensin system, telmisartan acts as a selective modulator of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PPAR-γ), a central regulator of insulin and glucose metabolism. It is believed that telmisartan's dual mode of action may provide protective benefits against the vascular and renal damage caused by diabetesand cardiovascular disease (CVD).[12]
> ...


Telmisartan is a great drug, but it really isn't very similar to cardarine.

It's a partial ppar gamma agonist, and not a particularly strong one.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

Thebiggestdumbass said:


> With this then, do you have anecdotal evidence of Cardarine keeping lipids in range on harsh compounds? Maybe some bloodwork for a adrol run with and without Cardarine or a tren run with and without?
> 
> I'm only asking because I think a humans bloodwork on the subject would be more applicable than rat/mice studies.


I have my own blood work.. but I am just one person. You'd also have to take my word on what I was running at the time.

This is another reason I tell people to evaluate and decide if they are comfortable with the risk profile on their own. I don't like when people make decisions based on my own blood work.

As I said in my previous post, biomarkers also may not reflect what's truly happening in the body.... especially in a drug that is poorly studied. I.e. are the biomarkers artificially improved, or is it truly providing the benefits implied by those improved biomarkers.

You gotta decide on your own.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Literally works the SAME was as cardarine but w/o arguing about cancer studies.
> 
> Guys need to STFU and read every once in a while. Cardarine is ONLY popular cause the SARMS and peptide companies PUSH it.
> 
> I don’t know if Cardarine causes cancer so I’m just going to make an educated decision??? That’s as retarded as it gets when there’s OTHER options.


Sure are speaking confidently about something that works on a completely different agonist pathway from cardarine.

It doesn't work the same.

For reference, I don't care if people use cardarine or whatever else they choose...but it's not the same agonist pathway and the effects of telmisartan will be weak in comparison to cardarine as a PPAR agonist


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## GreenAmine (May 21, 2022)

Send0 said:


> not the same agonist pathway and the effects of telmisartan will be weak in comparison to cardarine as a PPAR agonist


Correct, PPAR-delta (cardarine) and PPAR-gamma (telmisartan) agonists target different genes, and therefore have different physiologic effects.

As to why testing on cardarine was haulted by GSK, I reached the same conclusion that you did: this drug would replace several high-profit drugs (e.g., cholesterol drugs and glucose disposal agents). The other issue is that the FDA would have never approved it due to the findings in the mouse study; they cut their losses after the mice developed tumors.


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## Send0 (May 21, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> Correct, PPAR-delta (cardarine) and PPAR-gamma (telmisartan) agonists target different genes, and therefore have different physiologic effects.
> 
> As to why testing on cardarine was haulted by GSK, I reached the same conclusion that you did: this drug would replace several high-profit drugs (e.g., cholesterol drugs and glucose disposal agents). The other issue is that the FDA would have never approved it due to the findings in the mouse study; they cut their losses after the mice developed tumors.


Right, the animal studies are one of the steps to allow the next FDA phase of testing to proceed. 

They did try to get around it by making gw0742 but they quickly abandoned that ship, and study data on that is sparse at best. I can only think animal testing results were similar, plus it wouldn't be profitable as it would make a number of drugs obsolete if successful.


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## MisterSuperGod (May 21, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Skip the cardarine and read a little about Telmisartan. Like cardarine, it’s a PPAR but it’s also good for a variety of our side effects, including blood pressure. And it didn’t fail the mouse cancer studies. 40 to 80 mg/day.
> 
> From wiki:
> In addition to blocking the renin–angiotensin system, telmisartan acts as a selective modulator of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PPAR-γ), a central regulator of insulin and glucose metabolism. It is believed that telmisartan's dual mode of action may provide protective benefits against the vascular and renal damage caused by diabetesand cardiovascular disease (CVD).[12]
> ...



The use of the words "is believed" and "may" don't fill me with confidence. They used the same verbiage when they brought HMB to the market and we all know how that turned out.

Being a prescription drug i would think it's secondary benefits would be clear cut given all the testing required to get a drug to the market.


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## ftf (May 21, 2022)

BigBaldBeardGuy said:


> Skip the cardarine and read a little about Telmisartan. Like cardarine, it’s a PPAR but it’s also good for a variety of our side effects, including blood pressure. And it didn’t fail the mouse cancer studies. 40 to 80 mg/day.
> 
> From wiki:
> In addition to blocking the renin–angiotensin system, telmisartan acts as a selective modulator of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PPAR-γ), a central regulator of insulin and glucose metabolism. It is believed that telmisartan's dual mode of action may provide protective benefits against the vascular and renal damage caused by diabetesand cardiovascular disease (CVD).[12]
> ...


Are you using Telmisartan,  or just sharing info about it?


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## silentlemon1011 (May 21, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> Correct, PPAR-delta (cardarine) and PPAR-gamma (telmisartan) agonists target different genes, and therefore have different physiologic effects.
> 
> As to why testing on cardarine was haulted by GSK, I reached the same conclusion that you did: this drug would replace several high-profit drugs (e.g., cholesterol drugs and glucose disposal agents). The other issue is that the FDA would have never approved it due to the findings in the mouse study; they cut their losses after the mice developed tumors.





Send0 said:


> Right, the animal studies are one of the steps to allow the next FDA phase of testing to proceed.
> 
> They did try to get around it by making gw0742 but they quickly abandoned that ship, and study data on that is sparse at best. I can only think animal testing results were similar, plus it wouldn't be profitable as it would make a number of drugs obsolete if successful.



I find that thought process pretty silly
You use mice that are genetically engineered to get cancer.
The rates were +/- like 5% in aggregate for the cancer rates amongst mice in the study (From what i remember) in comparison to standard cancer rates for the same type of mice, WITHOUT medication.
This should be well within parameters to investigate mitigating factors and look deeper

So to he fair, im not buying that explanation whatsoever.

Thr "Cardarine is cheap as fuck, not properly patentable and would replace more expensive in production drugs" argument.....
I can buy that


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## TODAY (May 21, 2022)

Some reference, for those who want a deeper insight:









						The Role of PPAR-δ in Metabolism, Inflammation, and Cancer: Many Characters of a Critical Transcription Factor
					

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-delta (PPAR-δ), one of three members of the PPAR group in the nuclear receptor superfamily, is a ligand-activated transcription factor. PPAR-δ regulates important cellular metabolic functions ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				












						PPAR Beta/Delta and the Hallmarks of Cancer
					

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) belong to the nuclear hormone receptor family. Three different isoforms, PPAR alpha, PPAR beta/delta and PPAR gamma have been identified. They all form heterodimers with retinoic X receptors to activate ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				












						Peroxisome proliferator activated receptors at the crossroad of obesity, diabetes, and pancreatic cancer
					

Pancreatic ductal adenocarcinoma (PDAC) is the fourth cause of cancer death with an overall survival of 5% at five years. The development of PDAC is characteristically associated to the accumulation of distinctive genetic mutations and is preceded by ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				












						PPARβ/δ a potential target in pulmonary hypertension blighted by cancer risk
					






					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## GreenAmine (May 21, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> I find that thought process pretty silly
> You use mice that are genetically engineered to get cancer.
> The rates were +/- like 5% in aggregate for the cancer rates amongst mice in the study (From what i remember) in comparison to standard cancer rates for the same type of mice, WITHOUT medication.
> This should be well within parameters to investigate mitigating factors and look deeper
> ...


The studies performed by GSK used Wistar Han rats and CD1 mice, which are the typical rodents used in pharma tox studies, so yes the data from these studies would definitely be accepted my the FDA, EMA, Health Canada, etc. Silly or not, that's the accepted methodology.

I'm not defending this MO by any means. A lot of shit in pharma doesn't make sense.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 21, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> The studies performed by GSK used Wistar Han rats and CD1 mice, which are the typical rodents used in pharma tox studies, so yes the data from these studies would definitely be accepted my the FDA, EMA, Health Canada, etc. Silly or not, that's the accepted methodology.
> 
> I'm not defending this MO by any means. A lot of shit in pharma doesn't make sense.



Accepted yes, for sure.
Just  at a glance, i have to assume alterior reasons above and beyond "cancer"


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## silentlemon1011 (May 21, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> The studies performed by GSK used Wistar Han rats and CD1 mice, which are the typical rodents used in pharma tox studies, so yes the data from these studies would definitely be accepted my the FDA, EMA, Health Canada, etc. Silly or not, that's the accepted methodology.
> 
> I'm not defending this MO by any means. A lot of shit in pharma doesn't make sense.



This methodology definitely makes sense as a prelim trial.
100% does
Not hating on the method, just disagreeinf that itnqas solely based off if the cancer


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## GreenAmine (May 21, 2022)

silentlemon1011 said:


> Accepted yes, for sure.
> Just  at a glance, i have to assume alterior reasons above and beyond "cancer"





silentlemon1011 said:


> This methodology definitely makes sense as a prelim trial.
> 100% does
> Not hating on the method, just disagreeinf that itnqas solely based off if the cancer


Agreed! Above all, companies want to protect their bottom lines, and cardarine was a threat to that. But if that was known initially, then why develop a drug like that in the first place?

Development of a new drug is incredibly expensive. It almost seems like it was done to put a nail in the coffin for the whole "exercise in a pill thing" to protect profits. GSK developed the drug, hoped it would fail, and would publish if it did. If it was successful, keep it quiet.


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## RiseUp (May 23, 2022)

GreenAmine said:


> Agreed! Above all, companies want to protect their bottom lines, and cardarine was a threat to that. But if that was known initially, then why develop a drug like that in the first place?
> 
> Development of a new drug is incredibly expensive. It almost seems like it was done to put a nail in the coffin for the whole "exercise in a pill thing" to protect profits. GSK developed the drug, hoped it would fail, and would publish if it did. If it was successful, keep it quiet.


This is almost same like with SR9009.... even the guy that created this compound wrote that its not safe for use and has zero oral bioavailibility even alot of people tried it and got results. Also very promising molecule and it seems they stopped doing research. Sad.


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## RiseUp (May 25, 2022)

I am not into science but found this : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1202464109 
Seems like PPAR delta agonists are good but only cardarine bad... I know its with mice..
@Send0


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## Human_Backhoe (May 25, 2022)

GW501516-activated PPARβ/δ promotes liver fibrosis via p38-JNK MAPK-induced hepatic stellate cell proliferation
					

After liver injury, the repair process comprises activation and proliferation of hepatic stellate cells (HSCs), which produce extracellular matrix (ECM) proteins. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor beta/delta (PPARβ/δ) is highly ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




@Send0

Damn it it wouldn't let me tag you like this "SeNd0"

 Please fix the field input so I can tag like this.


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## silentlemon1011 (May 25, 2022)

RiseUp said:


> This is almost same like with SR9009.... even the guy that created this compound wrote that its not safe for use and has zero oral bioavailibility even alot of people tried it and got results. Also very promising molecule and it seems they stopped doing research. Sad.



Placebo is real for sure


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## Send0 (May 25, 2022)

RiseUp said:


> I am not into science but found this : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1202464109
> Seems like PPAR delta agonists are good but only cardarine bad... I know its with mice..
> @Send0


@Human_Backhoe linked another study, which both I and @silentlemon1011  linked earlier.

Also, apparently my bloodwork didn't get the memo for the study you linked. This was taken 1 week after I finished running testosterone and  Tren, with 20mg of superdrol added in for the last 4 weeks of the cycle. I used 20mg of cardarine daily for the duration of that blast.

My blood work is an individual case, and is by no means a definitive answer on whether cardarine is good or bad. These were just my results and nothing more.


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