# Can pro-hormones/Sarms be used instead of Testosterone in conjunction with HCG therapy?



## cue3232 (Mar 21, 2015)

*Can pro-hormones/Sarms be used instead of Testosterone in conjunction with HCG therapy?*

I am on 500 ius of HCG 3x a week for TRT right now and still feel like I have low T.  I have been on test cyp injections every week at 200mgs in the past, and felt great, but my Anti-aging clinic Dr thinks the HCG will work without the test. I have been lifting 10yrs now and never took any steroids prior to being on TRT.  I have come to the conclusion that I have Hypopituitarism from which I gauged from low low cortisol levels I have and obviously low T, hence, why I am on TRT.  Anyways, I was wondering if any one of the many pro-hormones out there or Sarms can be used instead of test? All and any advice is welcomed.


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## j2048b (Mar 21, 2015)

Possibly ldg-4033 

Trestolone is an injectable prohormone u can also look into

Research it a bit


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## cue3232 (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks man I will def look into Trestolone.  I have actually got the chance to use ldg-4033, but unfortunately the source I used is gone now.  It actually helped me keep my muscle from wasting away like the studies suggested.  Which was good, but never got that confidence I got from test.  Thanks again for the info.


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## j2048b (Mar 21, 2015)

*Can pro-hormones/Sarms be used instead of Testosterone in conjunction with HC...*

Yup and the trest is no joke, it may actually arromitize differently than test so letro maybe needed as i believe it is a methyl type so the estrogen might be a bit harder to control if u go that route 

Find a peptide site, a lot carry the ldg-4033


And now u being off test simply puts u in the 
Hcg monotherapy setting as opposed to trt, yea hcg will work.... I know a few only on hcg and love it more than being on test

And damn what clinic are u with that would take u off test? Makes no sense


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## cue3232 (Mar 23, 2015)

The clinic is called Body Logic MD.  I read up on trestolone and found they make something called Tr3st.  Do you think it is as good as Trest acetate injectables?  Also, would Arimedex suffice as a good AI over Letro?  From what i have been reading gyno is a big issue with trest, which is kinda scary while on HCG monotherapy.  The only reason I say that is I can't hold muscle while on this therapy and I gain fat very quickly.


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## halfwit (Mar 23, 2015)

Nope.  

Your body requires testosterone, plain and simple.  It's a signaling hormone on top of the benefits that we expect to see.  The thyroid, pancreas, and hypothalamus look for this signal to ensure proper function.  It's why many guys that are hypogonadal tend to develop diabetes and other metabolic issues.  

HCG mono only works if your body responds to leutinizing hormone, which HCG mimics.  Are you primary by chance OP? If so, the only solution is TRT, and your doctor should know this.  

My .02c


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## Pounds (Mar 24, 2015)

........no


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## BubbleGuppies (Mar 26, 2015)

No. Your body needs test.


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## BubbleGuppies (Mar 26, 2015)

HCG will get your test levels up, but if you have true hypo I don't think that is something you want to be on long term.


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## gymrat827 (Mar 26, 2015)

Your anti aging doc is a tard.  ask and/or beg for tes.  HCG is a waste without it.

how old are you?  how long have you been on trt?  what type of doses?  all PH's are now banned & so its not something thats still sold retail.  

give us a bit more info on yourself bud.


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## juuced (Mar 26, 2015)

You said you were on TRT in the past at 200mg/week.  How long were you on this?  I bet if you were doing this long your natural test production may have been damaged beyond repair.


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## cue3232 (Mar 31, 2015)

I am 33 and I was originally put on androgel when i was 30 for 6 months then lost my insurance. I tried naturally boosting my T levels for a year after that by cleaning up my diet, using more compound lifts, taking all different kinds of Test boosters, but unfortunately that didnt work for when I got bloods done and still was at 280 total test.  I was then put on injections at 200mg every 2 weeks for 3 months.  It raised my T to 385, so I was then put on 200mgs every week which gradually over 3 months brought it to about 900 and I was feeling great.  A week later I started to have low T symptoms and was reading online about prolactin and estradiol.  I got more blood work done showing high prolactin and high E2.  I saw several Endo's who all accused me of taking steroids.  I told them that i workout 6 days a week while on 200mgs Test every week, which they didnt believe me.  The only course at that point was to go back to every other week injections because according to these Drs that was the only way of lowering those levels.  I then started to do major research online to take matters in my own hands.  I got a hold of clomid and tried the clomid challenge got bloods after and it increased my bioavailable test to 585 and my LH 15, FSH to 35.  My starting bioavailable test was 118, LH 1.4, FSH 1.6. The new endo I was seeing saw these high levels and immediately told me I was primary even after I told him I was taking clomid prior.  He then told me that was impossible for me to get that without a Rx and the numbers dont lie I am primary, he said. We did rule out teste problems, but I never got my pituitary checked. He put me on Androgel 1.62% 2 pumps ed.  So I sought out an anti-aging clinic and here I am.  Told the Dr my story he reassured me everything was going to be all better and that was that...  The first month of HCG injections I was feeling great, my boys started coming back I thought this is working, but then every month after that I wasn't feeling good and my boys are atrophying again.  I just started taking arimidex prior to the HCG shots and its been helping.  I just started experimenting by taking arimidex low dose ed for 5 days and I feel like my test is slightly coming back to normal.  At this point without Test injections the arimidex is my only way of feeling normal again.  Once again all info or anybody's 2 cents are def welcomed.  Info on good Drs or Endos very welcomed or even another anti-aging clinic.  Thanks in advance!


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## halfwit (Mar 31, 2015)

Primary, yet responding to clomid.  I love pretentious know-it-all doctors.  Hint:  You're secondary.  

Here's the thing; you have a few choices in front of you.  You can continue down the path of fixing symptoms, and be fine.  Gels are HUGE money makers for doctors, and they *can* work for some folks.  Unfortunately for the majority though, they convert mostly to DHT and our worst enemy - estradiol.  

Testosterone injections are the most affordable and often the best method of treatment.  As you've seen, doctors tend to be woefully undereducated in this area, so finding one that prescribes it, let's you self-inject, manages estradiol (AI anyone?),  and even back-fills other hormone pathways with HCG is going to be a challenge.  

This is why I have a script monkey for a doctor that just let's me self-inject testosterone, and I take care of the rest.  I simply got tired of educating folks that make 6 figures, and should know more than I do on this topic.  

Healthgrades is one of the many sites that ranks docs in your area, and also allows you to search by specialty.  Unfortunately the level of information really depends on patient participation - so I would use it as a preliminary tool for initial screening.  

Once you have the names of a few docs, it's time to interview them.  You read that right, interview them.  You need to make it VERY clear that you're looking for a QUALIFIED doctor that fits your needs, and before they even take a vital sign, should be able to answer basic TRT questions.  A few examples would be:

1. Do you offer injections/self-injections? 

2. How do you manage estradiol if needed? (AI better be the answer) 

3. What do you think about hematocrit issues from TRT? (blood donating better be an answer) 

4. How do you propose to restore DHEA, pregnenolone, and optimal thyroid/adrenal function? (HCG is the best answer here, but micronized supplementation is OK) 

5. This is a bonus question that I never got the appropriate reply to:  As exogenous androgens tend to decrease collagen synthesis, do you have a proposal or protocol in place to rectify the potential of connective tissue degradation? (growth hormone is the best answer, but most docs are scared of it - even though INSURANCE companies have it listed) 

Long post, I know... 

The second path you have before you is to find out WHY you're hypogonadal.  A skilled endo should be looking at everything from an MRI of the pituitary to possible sleep apnea and even dietary deficiencies.  

The second path may ultimately lead you back to the first, BUT you certainly have the option to decide.  I know if I had the choice (I really am primary due to destroyed leydig cells), I'd have sought a way to put off injections for the rest of my life.  

Remember, YOU are the BOSS in the doctor-client relationship.  A lot of pompous ****ers forget that as they develop a minor God complex.  Luckily, there are guys around that aren't afraid to remind them how it works.


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## gymrat827 (Mar 31, 2015)

http://www.basskilleronline.com/


read every article there.  read all the old threads here in the PH and anabolic section.  you have lots of learning ahead of you brother.


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## cue3232 (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks guys for the replies!  I will check out every bit off info on that site.  Now begins the interview process.


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## bprice (Dec 22, 2019)

WoW I learn something everytime i come on here. you mentioned connective tissue , to include tendons will TRT degrade these I have never been on any test and am 41 years old was considering it because my total  test levels were 269 and free test was 7.5 and i lift heavy 3-4 times a week. I have went from plantar facitis for over a year to now tennis elbow seems like i have been chasing inflammation around my body for the last 3 years have been eating clean and making sure i wasnt macro/MIcro deffcient. I have just recently started researching steroids as a way to recover faster and also maybe help with the inflammation? I came on here thinking about sources but have immediately realized I needed to learn way more. Thanks


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