# Found the culprit- exercise that killed Deadlift !



## viktor89 (Oct 18, 2014)

Hello all,

Some of you might remember me posting that how everytime I tried to deadlift close to max I get no where and after a lot of researching, reading and analysing, a deduction has been made. 

It's the 90 degree Bent over rows. I started on Bill starr and reached 295lbs and then took a break started the program again and failed at 285 and then again started and failed at 275 and then recently 265. I got mad and started Wendler 531 from advice from all my brothers here and SAME THING AGAIN. 

Mon - Squat, Tues - Bench and 90 degree Bent over rows- Thurs- OHP and Fri - DL 

and GUESS WHAT?! at I stalled again and this time at 250 . The problem ? 

Apparently Heavy squatting, 90 degree Bent over rows and Deadlifts aren't healthy for lower back cuz not enough time to recover especially when 90 degree Bent over rows pound Lower back like a mofo. When I made it to 295 lbs during that time my rows were 45 degree angle.

Even though I like Bent over rows very much and my posture has improved-I'll be stopping that for a while just to see what gives ? If I still fail - maybe I need bodybuilding routine and with more muscle I'd be able to do heavy DL again lol .

Thanks for reading


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## mickems (Oct 18, 2014)

I believe a 90 degree is a pendlay row. have you tried doing a 45 degree bent over row. how is your form?( are you hunched over?)


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## Joliver (Oct 18, 2014)

Tuesday really shouldn't be hindering Friday's work.  I can't help but think that isn't the problem.

Squatting and deadlifting are fantastic for your lower back. I've been doing them for years and my lower back is damn near bullet proof.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 18, 2014)

Like jol said your low back should be strong as hell. I think you are going in the opposite direction 

For starters screw 90 degrees. Stand up a bit more or use a plate loaded row machine or t bar.

Second start doing hypers. If you have a reverse hyper which you likely don't use that. Beat your back to death and it won't have a choice but to adapt. 

What are your squat and dl numbers?


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## viktor89 (Oct 18, 2014)

My max DL according to the calculator is 330 but I've only done 295 lb x 5 once and since then I've been declining. Squat max is 255 lb. 225 x 5 reps. 

I workout at home - so I have a olympic bar and plates. When I used to do 45 degree -My lower back didn't feel so stressed. 

Reverse lower hypers can't be done at home judging from videos unless I do them without any weight. 

The thing is I'd like to do more variations of DL but after I fail at an attempt like 250 x 5 reps - I feel like back is frozen up and then it's hard to move even 135 lbs. 

You guys really think Pendlay rows don't tax lower back?


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## viktor89 (Oct 18, 2014)

mickems said:


> I believe a 90 degree is a pendlay row. have you tried doing a 45 degree bent over row. how is your form?( are you hunched over?)



Yeah , i used to do 45 degree -with arched/flat back. Numbers rose quickly but I learned that Pendlay is much better for back so I switched to that and it feels nice and tight after doing that compared to 45 degree but now with declining DL I feel like I might have made a mistake.


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## StoliFTW (Oct 18, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> It's the 90 degree Bent over rows. I started on Bill starr and reached 295lbs and then took a break started the program again and failed at 285 and then again started and failed at 275 and then recently 265. I got mad and started Wendler 531 from advice from all my brothers here and SAME THING AGAIN.



You lift 295lbs (approx) doing Bend Over rows? Same as you deadlift max?  Or am i reading this wrong?


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## DocDePanda187123 (Oct 18, 2014)

StoliFTW said:


> You lift 295lbs (approx) doing Bend Over rows? Same as you deadlift max?  Or am i reading this wrong?



I think he hit 295 on his deadlift before it started regressing. That's not the weight for the rows I don't think.


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## StoliFTW (Oct 18, 2014)

Yeh that's what makes sense... Reading comprehension fail on my part..


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## viktor89 (Oct 19, 2014)

StoliFTW said:


> Yeh that's what makes sense... Reading comprehension fail on my part..



Lol I wish I did 295 bend over rows haha - My bench would be really high too , if I BB that lbs lol


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## StoliFTW (Oct 19, 2014)

Take a week off. See if that helps. Work on your form etc.. you'll get there..


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## viktor89 (Oct 20, 2014)

StoliFTW said:


> Take a week off. See if that helps. Work on your form etc.. you'll get there..



I took off two week before I started new routine and that's when the regressing happened. 

You guys really think it isn't the Pendlay rows? I really can't think of any possible reason for me to regress. The diet is same , activities are same -what gives? 

It isn't even about ego cuz I'm lifting less than I could normally lol


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## viktor89 (Oct 20, 2014)

FRIKKING SH!T JUST GOT REAL

So I finished my squats 175 x5 195 x3 and 220 x2 

After 2-3 min break I go for 155lb x10 then wait 2 mins 155 x4 and then just froze and fell on my knees. I was able to control the weight and kept sitting on my knees until help arrived (mom). 

This is pathetic, now my lower back feels like it's frozen. It's feels like if I try to bend I'd break and fall over but it's totally fine going opposite direction. 

I'm a stock trader and sit on a chair (ergonomic) almost 6.5 hours a day with movement during the day. 

Please help.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 20, 2014)

Any pain vik?


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## viktor89 (Oct 20, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> Any pain vik?



Nope. Just frozen and feels like a clustered up ropes and everything extremely tight.


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## DF (Oct 20, 2014)

I agree 90 degree row are the worst thing for your back.


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## viktor89 (Oct 20, 2014)

It is sore but just feels very tight. LIke I just 500 reps of deadlift but I didn't even do DL since friday.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 20, 2014)

I would bet money it's your hips that are tight. Go on YouTube and take a look at mobility wod. Look up hip and glute stretches and start doing them a few times per day.

Lifting heavy requires more recovery work than just eating and resting. It's an active process and there are numerous ways to do it. Frequent stretching post work out or at home is most effective imo. 

Prior to training a dynamic warm up is needed. Essentially do the same stretches but contract and relax repeatedly. Do not do static stretching before training.

Some other tools to incorporate would be a foam roller and a lacrosse ball. Jam the ball in your upper outer glute and when you hit a tight tender spot lay on it for 2 minutes.  Then roll out the whole area.


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## viktor89 (Oct 20, 2014)

PillarofBalance said:


> I would bet money it's your hips that are tight. Go on YouTube and take a look at mobility wod. Look up hip and glute stretches and start doing them a few times per day.
> 
> Lifting heavy requires more recovery work than just eating and resting. It's an active process and there are numerous ways to do it. Frequent stretching post work out or at home is most effective imo.
> 
> ...



I had a feeling that it's the hips and lower back -since I get butt wink whilst squatting but I never thought that the tension could increase to a point where I'd just freeze up and potentially fail horribly like this.

Until I get a lacrosse ball- should I stop working out or do with lower weight? 

I can still bench and do OHP ?


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## DieYoungStrong (Oct 20, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> I had a feeling that it's the hips and lower back -since I get butt wink whilst squatting but I never thought that the tension could increase to a point where I'd just freeze up and potentially fail horribly like this.
> 
> Until I get a lacrosse ball- should I stop working out or do with lower weight?
> 
> I can still bench and do OHP ?



Why dont you stop at any sports store or walmart and grab a lacrosse ball and get to it? Look up Joe DeFranco's "Agile 8" or "Elite 11" on youtube along with the mobility wod stuff and get to it.


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 20, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> I had a feeling that it's the hips and lower back -since I get butt wink whilst squatting but I never thought that the tension could increase to a point where I'd just freeze up and potentially fail horribly like this.
> 
> Until I get a lacrosse ball- should I stop working out or do with lower weight?
> 
> I can still bench and do OHP ?


Just get the ball and start the stretches. Delaying it only lengthens the time you are stuck like this.

It's not an immediate cure. It will take time and you will need to continue this indefinitely.


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## grizzldsealpoacher (Oct 20, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> Nope. Just frozen and feels like a clustered up ropes and everything extremely tight.



I used to have this happen alot and was stuck at the weights u struggle with now . its time for a belt bud , you will love it , I thought raw was soo cool no belt for me but after I yinked my back one two many times and felt I was regressing I gave a belt a try and it made a hewwwg difference . Have not yinked my back since numbers are way up since not using one 

here is the one I use 

http://www.amazon.com/Mens-Deadlift-Belt-Powerlifting-Weightlifting/dp/B00A5YGLCC

Get the triple ply 

good luck


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## Big Worm (Oct 21, 2014)

Sounds like back pump and maybe pulled a muscle a little bit. In your posts above you describe back pumps when you are DL.


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## viktor89 (Oct 21, 2014)

Big Worm said:


> Sounds like back pump and maybe pulled a muscle a little bit. In your posts above you describe back pumps when you are DL.



Back "pumps" ? After DL it feels tight and solid -actually the same feeling but self esteem is a bit higher cuz I was able to push the weight lol. 

Anyhow today I wasn't able to move at all. I might have to get a massaging chair for my work (sitting all day) 

I will get a ball and report back.


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## mickems (Oct 21, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> Back "pumps" ? After DL it feels tight and solid -actually the same feeling but self esteem is a bit higher cuz I was able to push the weight lol.
> 
> Anyhow today I wasn't able to move at all. I might have to get a massaging chair for my work (sitting all day)
> 
> I will get a ball and report back.



this helps me. it may work for you also.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1599


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## viktor89 (Oct 22, 2014)

mickems said:


> this helps me. it may work for you also.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It says invalid attachment. I cannot see anything?


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## viktor89 (Oct 23, 2014)

Guys - I used the ball OMG - it feels like I'm a new man. 

I've been using a Balm since Monday and haven't lifted weight but I was using the ball since Tuesday and a massager. DAMN! today it feels like I can lift thousand lbs.

I WILL NEVER EVER OVER LOOK STRETCHING. I stopped stretching to save time but damn! Now I won't mind missing an accessory exercise but stretch religiously before going to bed or after exercising.

I'm also grateful that I didn't slip a disk when the weight fell or something worse. I used to see funny youtube fails but I'm really thankful that I learned the easy way. I won't work out this whole week just to recover fully but DAMN!



THANKS ALL FOR ALL THE HELP. You guys are great! If ever in around neighbourhood in Ottawa- first round is on me !


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 24, 2014)

viktor89 said:


> Guys - I used the ball OMG - it feels like I'm a new man.
> 
> I've been using a Balm since Monday and haven't lifted weight but I was using the ball since Tuesday and a massager. DAMN! today it feels like I can lift thousand lbs.
> 
> ...


I EFFIN TOLD YOU SO!!!! Lol


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