# Opinions on training split



## ron1204 (Oct 2, 2016)

Alright guys so I've read a lot that ideally you want to train a muscle twice a week, depending on what your taking i up to 3 times per week. 
Right now I'm pretty busy and have from an hour to an hour an a half max to work out. Good thing i could work out 6 to even 7 times a week. 
Now, I've got a question to see what u guys think. Would it be better to work a muscle out once a week but go a lot harder on it and make that workout a lot more intense or would it be better to go down on the sets and the time and do i twice a week? I try doing both. I try taking advantage of all the time i can get in the gym.  I do a lot of heavy weights, i do some sets later in my workouts with lower weight higher reps, i do super sets and drop sets. I try to incorporate it all. 
An example of my day would be doing chest, and then if i have some more time i do bicep and tricep super setting each exercise. Or if I'm doing back and i have time ill super set some shoulders and traps. Stuff like that. I don't always have time to do more than one muscle. 
So what do u guys think is better, hitting every muscle a little less but more often or going ham and doing it once a week?


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## BRICKS (Oct 2, 2016)

Everybody responds a little bit differently, and differently at times.  For me some body parts do better with once a week and some twice, and even that varies for myself.  Try one way for a few weeks and see what happens then try the other.  I've noticed also that this has changed over time as well.  What was working 20 years ago isn't necessarily best anymore and vice versa.


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## Onk (Oct 2, 2016)

the science is well established here, 2x is better than 1x. I'd rather get in 100+ training sessions than 50 a year, twice as much time to train the muscles. 

Moreover, I do this, and have achieved better results accordingly. 

I do this:
1/ chest, front delts, triceps
2/ back, rear delts, biceps
3/ legs + calves
4/ 1
5/ 2
6/ 3
7/ anything I want, usually go back to 1, but can also throw in more shoulders or abs or anything here. Alternatively, could be a rest day


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## ron1204 (Oct 2, 2016)

Yes I understand that but how about if in order to work out each muscle twice u had to sacrifice some time in each. Would u rather go 100% once a week or around 75% twice ?


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 2, 2016)

ron1204 said:


> Yes I understand that but how about if in order to work out each muscle twice u had to sacrifice some time in each. Would u rather go 100% once a week or around 75% twice ?



"Time" doesn't matter, overall training load (volume x weight) does and this is NOT sacrificed with higher frequency training if the programme has been laid out properly. 
On the contrary, training with greater frequency allows a more rapid rate of increase when it comes to progressive overload so you actually end up with a GREATER increase in overall training load compared to the bro split. This translates to greater gains over the long term.    

I recommend you read this to see exactly why the bro split is well established as being inferior to higher frequency training: 
https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/21852-The-Bro-Split-why-it-sucks-better-alternatives


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## ron1204 (Oct 3, 2016)

MrRippedZilla said:


> "Time" doesn't matter, overall training load (volume x weight) does and this is NOT sacrificed with higher frequency training if the programme has been laid out properly.
> On the contrary, training with greater frequency allows a more rapid rate of increase when it comes to progressive overload so you actually end up with a GREATER increase in overall training load compared to the bro split. This translates to greater gains over the long term.
> 
> I recommend you read this to see exactly why the bro split is well established as being inferior to higher frequency training:
> https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/21852-The-Bro-Split-why-it-sucks-better-alternatives



your right. Its not about time, it is training load. I should have written it differently. 
I read the thread. Awesome information. I want to give a try to that Advance PPL you wrote about with 3 splits twice a week. 
Now a few questions on that, my main focus would be the major muscle groups (chest, back, legs). ill try to hit chest with 3 to 4 movements, back with minimum 4 movements, legs minimum 4 movements as well all with high intensity. Now, for the smaller muscle groups, how many movement would u recommend. If I'm limited on time i might not be able to hit back with 4 movements, then biceps with 3, then shoulders with 3. Do you think as long as the training load and the intensity is high enough, i can get away with doing 2 movements for 4 sets, or maybe 3 movements for 3 sets each? Also, I like to incorporate super sets and drop sets. Would you recommend incorporating those in this split as well? for example super setting bicep and delts and back? This wouldn't be for every single time. Ideally, i like switching rep ranges and training load.


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## IHI (Oct 3, 2016)

And let me jump in and ask about the a.m./p.m. split. Use the bro split as a basic guide, but when I'd have things align I really enjoyed, and felt I got a much better work out when I focused on chest only in my a.m. work out, then when I got home from work could really destroy triceps. Usually trying to do it all at one sitting I felt by the time I got to the triceps aspect, they were already burnt out from chest stuff, so that work out was not as productive as it could've been. So then I split them up, 4am chest only, 4pm tricep stuff. Then next day 4am back stuff, 4pm bicep stuff. 

Good/bad/stupid/waste??


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## Onk (Oct 3, 2016)

IHI said:


> And let me jump in and ask about the a.m./p.m. split. Use the bro split as a basic guide, but when I'd have things align I really enjoyed, and felt I got a much better work out when I focused on chest only in my a.m. work out, then when I got home from work could really destroy triceps. Usually trying to do it all at one sitting I felt by the time I got to the triceps aspect, they were already burnt out from chest stuff, so that work out was not as productive as it could've been. So then I split them up, 4am chest only, 4pm tricep stuff. Then next day 4am back stuff, 4pm bicep stuff.
> 
> Good/bad/stupid/waste??



That's a good way to do it, if you have the time. Not many people can go to the gym a good 8-10x (or 14 if 2x7days) a week. You could even say that's ideal if you can do it. 

Just make sure you're eating enough. When cutting weight it absolutely sucks and you'll be lethargic.


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## MrRippedZilla (Oct 3, 2016)

ron1204 said:


> Now, for the smaller muscle groups, how many movement would u recommend. If I'm limited on time i might not be able to hit back with 4 movements, then biceps with 3, then shoulders with 3. Do you think as long as the training load and the intensity is high enough, i can get away with doing 2 movements for 4 sets, or maybe 3 movements for 3 sets each?
> Also, I like to incorporate super sets and drop sets. Would you recommend incorporating those in this split as well? for example super setting bicep and delts and back? This wouldn't be for every single time. Ideally, i like switching rep ranges and training load.



As long as the training load is progressively increasing then yes, you can get away with a wide variety of set/rep/exercise selection protocols. 
Total reps x weight will give you an established baseline so that you can compare your current volume to the one you setup with the new split.

I personally don't see the need to do more than 1-2 movements for biceps & 3 for shoulders sounds fine (vertical press, rear & lateral delt work).
I like to incorporate the more advanced stuff (super/drop sets, etc) sparingly in order to maintain their effectiveness but as long as your tracking your progress and noting the trends I don't see an issue with making them a regular part of your programme. 
Switching rep ranges/training load is recommended and something I discussed in an article I wrote on periodiziation. It's a bit more advanced than the bro split article but does go into detail about the long term trends we're looking for when it comes to programming and the many, many ways to go about it: 
https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/21541-A-basic-guide-to-periodization 




IHI said:


> And let me jump in and ask about the a.m./p.m. split. Use the bro split as a basic guide, but when I'd have things align I really enjoyed, and felt I got a much better work out when I focused on chest only in my a.m. work out, then when I got home from work could really destroy triceps. Usually trying to do it all at one sitting I felt by the time I got to the triceps aspect, they were already burnt out from chest stuff, so that work out was not as productive as it could've been. So then I split them up, 4am chest only, 4pm tricep stuff. Then next day 4am back stuff, 4pm bicep stuff.
> 
> Good/bad/stupid/waste??



The way you seem to be approaching am/pm splits is the way I tend to recommend it. 

As long as it fits into your lifestyle and you keep an eye on controlling volume (it should look like 1 workout split into two rather than 2 separate day workouts in 1) then good


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## ron1204 (Oct 3, 2016)

awesome advice bro thanks! Im definitely going to be switching up my split and keeping an eye out on my volume and rep ranges. It seems like no matter how long you work out for, theres always info that can be helpful and useful out there to better yourself. Both threads are great reads and ill keep analyzing them to get an even better understanding of them. You sure know your shit. Thanks again.


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## Runningwild (Oct 3, 2016)

Hey Ron a little late jumping in here but just wanted to say I have always experienced better results from training the body twice a week as opposed to the bro spit.  When I was a lot younger I would follow the bro split religiously.  I would see results and never thought I wasn't maximizing my results until I started to incorporate my sports training into the actual weight room.  The more times I would practice and do drills the more results I would get.  And there was definitely a ceiling on how much time could be spent in a single session if I did 30 minutes of agility drills daily I got better results then doing 2 days of agility drills for 1:30-2 hours each.  I started to implement that into the weight room and I noticed better strength and size gains.  When I read the article mrrippedzilla copied when I joined if just reassured everything I discovered years prior.  Also when your blasting or on a cycle recovery time gets a lot less so might as well hit the muscles more freuently. 
I am eager to see how it works out for you keep us updated on your progress man with the new split


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## ron1204 (Oct 3, 2016)

Runningwild said:


> Hey Ron a little late jumping in here but just wanted to say I have always experienced better results from training the body twice a week as opposed to the bro spit.  When I was a lot younger I would follow the bro split religiously.  I would see results and never thought I wasn't maximizing my results until I started to incorporate my sports training into the actual weight room.  The more times I would practice and do drills the more results I would get.  And there was definitely a ceiling on how much time could be spent in a single session if I did 30 minutes of agility drills daily I got better results then doing 2 days of agility drills for 1:30-2 hours each.  I started to implement that into the weight room and I noticed better strength and size gains.  When I read the article mrrippedzilla copied when I joined if just reassured everything I discovered years prior.  Also when your blasting or on a cycle recovery time gets a lot less so might as well hit the muscles more freuently.
> I am eager to see how it works out for you keep us updated on your progress man with the new split



Good advice is never late bro. Im glad you got great results from trying that out too. 
Im 24, me and my wife just had a baby. Hes 4 months old. So thats why im limited in time right now. Im juggling a lot. Before i had him, i had so much more time, i could hit the gym for 2 hours. But i was still leaning more towards a bro split. Even though i have less time now, im going to do what rippedzilla said.I know as long as i keep the intensity high and volume good i can get some results. Thanks for the feedback on your experience


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## PillarofBalance (Oct 3, 2016)

Ron consider some cheap used dumbbells and bands to keep at home. You could hit delts biceps triceps on their own at home 3 to 4 times per week if you want.  

Hell you can do much more than that too.  Calves hamstrings etc... just about anything.


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## ron1204 (Oct 3, 2016)

yea dumbbells is something im going to look into. They can be helpful for smaller muscles


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## IHI (Oct 4, 2016)

ron1204 said:


> yea dumbbells is something im going to look into. They can be helpful for smaller muscles



Dumbbells piss me off. I took a 5-55 set as part of a job trade since dickhead was short some cash he owed to settle up completely (and a new bow flex that I didn't need/want but had to get something to resell to recoup). But I'm long past needing 60-120 second tier set and get depressed everytime I price a set out lol. That's about the only reason I renew gym memberships in winter not only to mix it up, but to get access to stuff I can't fit in my weight room without kicking mama out of some sqft of her daycare downstairs.

Just wish the bro syndrome wasn't so ridiculous at the 3 chain gym locations I will hit with guys from work, tried going alone a few times and tired quickly of standing in line to use various equipment for isolation stuff.


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## ECKSRATED (Oct 4, 2016)

I just had my mother yes my.mother buy me this set of dumbbells. 

http://www.titan.fitness/strength-e...f-adjustable-cast-iron-dumbbells-200-lbs.html

100 pounds each. Can make them 140s singally for rows and shit
 Or buy a few more tens and make both bigger. Can't beat the price with free shippin .


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## IHI (Oct 4, 2016)

I literally had a set like that in the cart, about ready to pull the trigger, but I kept going back to a similar set I had like that yrs ago. I'd get so pissed off because the knob would work itself loose, with the handle sticking out past the end, trying to set them on your legs before laying down or commensing whatever exercise just wasn't feasible for obvious reasons lol.

But yeah, rows and curls you could "make due", but I really like them for incline movements so I can manipulate my shoulders open/close to "help" with slowing the onset of workout ending pain/catches that lock my shoulder up...which require resting on legs pre positioning "ouch" 

Now with that said, I'm going to Google search to see if anybody sells a flat end cap for those 1" bars. A guy could lock the weight plates in position, and then spin the "end cap" onto end of bar so you'd have, say a, 4" round flat surface, which would allow you to rest the dumbells on your legs while getting into the ready position. If I can't drum anything up, I may do some thread pitch research, a guy may be able to make something too if the market doesn't have them already


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## ECKSRATED (Oct 4, 2016)

Tape a piece of wood to your leg. Lol. But I know what u mean. Dumbbells are way too expensive. Not to sound strong or anything but I can easily press 180s for reps on bench and there's no way I'm spending that much money on dumbbells. I'll make due with those things for now and just do my heavy work with a barbell.


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## BRICKS (Oct 4, 2016)

ECKSRATED said:


> I just had my mother yes my.mother buy me this set of dumbbells.
> 
> http://www.titan.fitness/strength-e...f-adjustable-cast-iron-dumbbells-200-lbs.html
> 
> ...



That's exactly what I used for heavy rows.  I have a 24" bar. Works great.


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