# Keto: the bitch maker



## automatondan (Jun 10, 2018)

For all those considering the keto diet....

Unless you dont care about the gains you have worked so hard to get over the last few years, dont do keto. Im shinking into being a little betch, and fast. I dont like it. Its really messing with my mind... But damnit, it works. The fat is already melting off my body and its only been a week... 

I know I will fill back out and adjust as my body adjusts to using ketones for fuel instead of glycogen, but I have a feeling the next couple weeks will suck psychologically. 

One thing I will say for sure is a positive part of my experience: parm crisps. fukking delicious. best thing ever.


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## MrRippedZilla (Jun 10, 2018)

Glycogen depletion. Non-issue beyond the psychological unless protein intake is idiotic. You should hear to the pussies on DNP (major glycogen depletion) complaining about being flat, etc - kind of funny considering the circumstances. 

Keep calm & trust the process. Or, alternatively, do a normal cut if it's that much of a mind ****. Whatever works for you long term.


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## automatondan (Jun 10, 2018)

MrRippedZilla said:


> Glycogen depletion. Non-issue beyond the psychological unless protein intake is idiotic. You should hear to the pussies on DNP (major glycogen depletion) complaining about being flat, etc - kind of funny considering the circumstances.
> 
> Keep calm & trust the process. Or, alternatively, do a normal cut if it's that much of a mind ****. Whatever works for you long term.



Thanks Zilla. Ive read the data and trust it- that is why I am actually following through with this... But your words give me some peace and encouragement, so thanks.

I am sticking with full keto for the next prob 8 weeks and then working towards a modified keto with carb-cycling.


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## PFM (Jun 10, 2018)

Keto diet, no way. Keto meal, yes. One keto meal (lunch #2 is best for me).  I've been taking a bedtime shake consisting of eggs whites, casein, fish oils and 1/2 a avocado. its all about finding what works for you.


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## automatondan (Jun 10, 2018)

PFM said:


> Keto diet, no way. Keto meal, yes. One keto meal (lunch #2 is best for me).  I've been taking a bedtime shake consisting of eggs whites, casein, fish oils and 1/2 a avocado. its all about finding what works for you.



I will post up a link tomorrow about a more advanced/modified keto diet that is geared towards serious athletes/bodybuilders that I hope to be my ultimate goal for my own diet. 

Theres some cool data out there that might be helpful for a lot of us (depending on our goals).


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## Jin (Jun 10, 2018)

What Zilla said. If I'm on full keto and I eat carb heavy for a day I gain nearly 8 pounds. Overnight.


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## jennerrator (Jun 10, 2018)

Lol...to much work.....:32 (20):


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## dk8594 (Jun 10, 2018)

Lyle McDonald has some really good reading material in regards to keto and athletics that you may want to look into.  

Each of us is different, but it took me between 2-3 months before I finally lost that feeling of “haze”. Once I did, though, I felt great.  The appetite suppression is amazing and I attribute much of its effectiveness to being able to live comfortably while eating fewer calories.

Keep us updated. I am interested hear how it goes for you. 

Oh.....you probably know this but calories in calories out still applies.  Just cause it’s bacon doesn’t mean it’s unlimited


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## HollyWoodCole (Jun 10, 2018)

I have considered running keto after this bulk to cut drastically, thanks for posting.  

Can I still eat Panda Express???????????


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## andy (Jun 10, 2018)

going through the prep I always feel small. with no muscles and basically it's not the best place to be for a normal human being. But that's how diet works. so suck it in and trust the process.
tried paleo, keto - both work excellent if done correctly! for my last prep (4 month long prep) i done 2month keto them switched to paleo for last two month. in result - best shape as far. so keep going


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## Oblivious (Jun 10, 2018)

Jin said:


> What Zilla said. If I'm on full keto and I eat carb heavy for a day I gain nearly 8 pounds. Overnight.


doesnt that rest ketosis ? like do you do it weekly?


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## automatondan (Jun 10, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> Lyle McDonald has some really good reading material in regards to keto and athletics that you may want to look into.
> 
> Each of us is different, but it took me between 2-3 months before I finally lost that feeling of “haze”. Once I did, though, I felt great.  The appetite suppression is amazing and I attribute much of its effectiveness to being able to live comfortably while eating fewer calories.
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting DK... Ive read some of Lyle's stuff, but thank you for the reminder to look it up again. Ive done this before back in my mid 20s and felt amazing after a certain point... I dont remember how long it took, but I remember how healthy I felt and how jacked I got. Haha

One of the things I feel is beneficial is that (for me at least), eating all those calories in fat is hard to do... I have been trying to do around 3000 calories and its been tough to reach that mark.... So I see how people associate keto with weightloss, but you are right, bottom line is calories in vs calories out. But keto is pretty cool in how it specifically targets body fat for fuel.

One thing I have found helpful for energy levels as I adjust to the change is significantly increasing my sodium intake. And not just plain ol salt, but pink Himalayan salt for its rich mineral and iodine content (powerful tyroid stimulant).



HollyWoodCole said:


> I have considered running keto after this bulk to cut drastically, thanks for posting.
> 
> Can I still eat Panda Express???????????



You should try it dude. I plan to shred from this and make my peace with feeling small for a time, so that I can build it all back even better than it was before. Plus there are HUGE health benefits of doing keto, including its strong cancer fighting abilities...

But to answer your question: No, highly unlikely. Haha



andy said:


> going through the prep I always feel small. with no muscles and basically it's not the best place to be for a normal human being. But that's how diet works. so suck it in and trust the process.
> tried paleo, keto - both work excellent if done correctly! for my last prep (4 month long prep) i done 2month keto them switched to paleo for last two month. in result - best shape as far. so keep going



Thanks for the encouragement and for sharing your experience with us as I think we can all comfortably say we find it valuable.


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## HollyWoodCole (Jun 11, 2018)

Nice man, I may hit you up for some pointers on this one when I begin the cut.


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## automatondan (Jun 11, 2018)

Sorry, today was a very busy day for me and I was not able to post that link... But I promise I will post up tomorrow with some takeaways...


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## Elivo (Jun 11, 2018)

Ive been tempted to go Keto, but ive been doing so good with the eating clean and watching the calories, i dont want to change up right now.


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## Yaya (Jun 11, 2018)

Lower ur carb intake u pussies 

Shove ur keto sticks up a horses ass


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## DieYoungStrong (Jun 11, 2018)

Been running carbnite for a few months. Down 20lbs.


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## Elivo (Jun 12, 2018)

Any of you running keto get sick the first bit you were on it? I tried it a while back and i ended up dizzy and crap all of a sudden one day. Figured it was the diet and pounded some carbs and it all went away not long after.

Tried it again and it was like someone was draining the energy right out of me, i wasnt back in the gym at that time but i dont know how i would have managed a workout even if i had been. 

So now im eating a clean diet, in deficit, and keeping my carb intake on the low side and also only eating any either before or after my workouts, on the weekends i drop it even lower or none at all if i can manage.  Been trying my best to go for a "no workout, no carb" type thing.


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## Jin (Jun 12, 2018)

Elivo said:


> Any of you running keto get sick the first bit you were on it? I tried it a while back and i ended up dizzy and crap all of a sudden one day. Figured it was the diet and pounded some carbs and it all went away not long after.
> 
> Tried it again and it was like someone was draining the energy right out of me, i wasnt back in the gym at that time but i dont know how i would have managed a workout even if i had been.
> 
> So now im eating a clean diet, in deficit, and keeping my carb intake on the low side and also only eating any either before or after my workouts, on the weekends i drop it even lower or none at all if i can manage.  Been trying my best to go for a "no workout, no carb" type thing.



Yes. Same experience. Getting into ketosis can be pretty unpleasant, especially the first time you achieve it. 

After the initially "learning curve" my body is able to get into ketosis without feeling like shit. 

There is a huge difference between eating 100g of carbs a day and 20g. Especially if you are eating <20/day for consecutive days.


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## MS1605 (Jun 13, 2018)

Keto+OMAD is where its at for me and my body type. I gain both fat and muscle pretty easy. Which leaves my body always wanting to rest around 20% BF. As soon as I start keto and OMAD I drop down BF super fast.


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## Elivo (Jun 13, 2018)

MS1605 said:


> Keto+OMAD is where its at for me and my body type. I gain both fat and muscle pretty easy. Which leaves my body always wanting to rest around 20% BF. As soon as I start keto and OMAD I drop down BF super fast.



Care to elaborate on OMAD a little? dont think ive heard of that one before.


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## HollyWoodCole (Jun 13, 2018)

Elivo said:


> Care to elaborate on OMAD a little? dont think ive heard of that one before.



One meal a day. Curious how this would look with keto.


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## Elivo (Jun 13, 2018)

HollyWoodCole said:


> One meal a day. Curious how this would look with keto.



So one keto style meal a day?  Thats interesting, not sure i could do that lol


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## gymrat827 (Jun 13, 2018)

i do a few keto meals a week but theres no way i could hack it every meal of the day & for 2-4wks......lol  

i love my carbs.  I can drop down in total cals much easier than just cutting out carbs for a few days.


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## automatondan (Jun 13, 2018)

Elivo said:


> Any of you running keto get sick the first bit you were on it? I tried it a while back and i ended up dizzy and crap all of a sudden one day. Figured it was the diet and pounded some carbs and it all went away not long after.
> 
> Tried it again and it was like someone was draining the energy right out of me, i wasnt back in the gym at that time but i dont know how i would have managed a workout even if i had been.
> 
> So now im eating a clean diet, in deficit, and keeping my carb intake on the low side and also only eating any either before or after my workouts, on the weekends i drop it even lower or none at all if i can manage.  Been trying my best to go for a "no workout, no carb" type thing.





Jin said:


> Yes. Same experience. Getting into ketosis can be pretty unpleasant, especially the first time you achieve it.
> 
> After the initially "learning curve" my body is able to get into ketosis without feeling like shit.
> 
> There is a huge difference between eating 100g of carbs a day and 20g. Especially if you are eating <20/day for consecutive days.



I believe I have already mentioned this, but significantly increasing your sodium intake especially in that first week will drastically improve lethargy issues and just feeling like crap. I use pink Himalayan salt for its idione and mineral content. I actually will grind a pile into my hand and then just lick it. I do this before I go into the gym, or throughout the day as I start feeling a lull in energy.


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## automatondan (Jun 13, 2018)

Ok everyone... I promised I would post up a link to a great resource for keto. There are some modified keto diet options for more experienced athletes and bodybuilding which this link goes into great detail about. There are 2 different options (outside of standard keto): TKD (Targeted Keto Diet) and CKD (Cyclical Keto Diet). 

I am still working through all the information, but the basic idea of the TKD would resemble carb-cycling on lifting days, taking in around 25-50 grams of carbs pre-workout and then going back into standard keto post-workout. The thought is to give your muscles just enough carbs to help with muscle building while not coming out of ketosis fully.

The basic premise of CKD is maintaining standard keto for 7-14 days and then having like a 36 hr carb loading period where you get around 70% of your cals from carbs. CKD is getting good results in for bodybuilding.

Im thinking of trying the TKD after a couple months of standard keto, but I have done the CKD in years past with great success. Psychologically speaking, the CKD might work better due to giving you some freedom in your diet every once in a while, so it 'could' lead to more long term success.

Anyways, here is the link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/wiki/index

Lemme know what you guys think... Im liking this dialog.


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## MS1605 (Jun 13, 2018)

I believe his name was already mentioned in this thread but lyle mcdonald wrote THEE book on CKD. I highly suggest checking it out.


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## Jin (Jun 14, 2018)

automatondan said:


> I believe I have already mentioned this, but significantly increasing your sodium intake especially in that first week will drastically improve lethargy issues and just feeling like crap. I use pink Himalayan salt for its idione and mineral content. I actually will grind a pile into my hand and then just lick it. I do this before I go into the gym, or throughout the day as I start feeling a lull in energy.



I have a salt lick tied up to the power rack now. Thanks.


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## BrotherJ (Jun 14, 2018)

Awesome, thanks for the link. I've been on a traditional cut the last two months and find it hard to maintain at a certain caloric level.


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## DieYoungStrong (Jun 14, 2018)

You need to try it to know how it works for you. Like any other diet.


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## automatondan (Jun 14, 2018)

DieYoungStrong said:


> You need to try it to know how it works for you. Like any other diet.



Im on week 2 and im testing my piss for ketones multiple times a day. It is working really well.... I went from no 6-pack, to a decent 6-pack with a nice V at the bottom. I know it will only get better the longer I go. I think ive already lost a few percentages on my bf. 

The only thing I would change if I were to have a do-over, is take in more protein. I was worried having my protein too high would kick me out of ketosis, but it appears that is broscience for the most part. I stay in a deep level of ketosis (12 mg/dl) even at 1.2 grams of protein per pound.


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## Jin (Jun 15, 2018)

automatondan said:


> Im on week 2 and im testing my piss for ketones multiple times a day. It is working really well.... I went from no 6-pack, to a decent 6-pack with a nice V at the bottom. I know it will only get better the longer I go. I think ive already lost a few percentages on my bf.
> 
> The only thing I would change if I were to have a do-over, is take in more protein. I was worried having my protein too high would kick me out of ketosis, but it appears that is broscience for the most part. I stay in a deep level of ketosis (12 mg/dl) even at 1.2 grams of protein per pound.



Those piss strips never went darker purple for me. They only pick up extra ketones expelled from your body that you didn't use for energy. The absence of significant ketones in your urine doesn't necessarily mean you aren't in ketosis.

I believe a blood test gives an accurate result.


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## automatondan (Jun 15, 2018)

Jin said:


> Those piss strips never went darker purple for me. They only pick up extra ketones expelled from your body that you didn't use for energy. The absence of significant ketones in your urine doesn't necessarily mean you aren't in ketosis.
> 
> I believe a blood test gives an accurate result.



You are correct, blood test is more definitive, but the test strips do work too for the most part... The only inaccuracy ive heard of is it not picking up ketones when you are actually in ketosis, but all my test strips have been dark purple since like day 3-4, with mild fluctuations depending on what I eat.

What amount of carbs were you taking in? It seems to differ from person to person. Ive been taking in around 30 per day. 

I think it has helped my ketosis to take little scoops of coconut oil on an empty stomach and then do fasted cardio or lift.


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## Jin (Jun 15, 2018)

automatondan said:


> You are correct, blood test is more definitive, but the test strips do work too for the most part... The only inaccuracy ive heard of is it not picking up ketones when you are actually in ketosis, but all my test strips have been dark purple since like day 3-4, with mild fluctuations depending on what I eat.



Yes. You are fine. I made the point for other people who may use the strips and think they aren't ketosis even if they are less than 25g of carbs a day but not achieving deep purple on the strips.


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## automatondan (Jun 15, 2018)

automatondan said:


> You are correct, blood test is more definitive, but the test strips do work too for the most part... The only inaccuracy ive heard of is it not picking up ketones when you are actually in ketosis, but all my test strips have been dark purple since like day 3-4, with mild fluctuations depending on what I eat.
> 
> What amount of carbs were you taking in? It seems to differ from person to person. Ive been taking in around 30 per day.
> 
> I think it has helped my ketosis to take little scoops of coconut oil on an empty stomach and then do fasted cardio or lift.





Jin said:


> Yes. You are fine. I made the point for other people who may use the strips and think they aren't ketosis even if they are less than 25g of carbs a day but not achieving deep purple on the strips.



I edited my post and left some questions for you, but you responded to my post before I made the changes...


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## dk8594 (Jun 15, 2018)

Jin said:


> Those piss strips never went darker purple for me. They only pick up extra ketones expelled from your body that you didn't use for energy. The absence of significant ketones in your urine doesn't necessarily mean you aren't in ketosis.
> 
> I believe a blood test gives an accurate result.



Pretty much same experience here. I would register on the piss strips first few days,  but as soon as I actually started to burn ketones, as opposed to pissing then out, the piss strips became pointless.

The wife bought me the ketonix breath analyzer for Christmas a few years ago.   It gave a good indication of how deep I was in Ketosis, but frankly after you have done a keto diet for awhile you can pretty much feel if you are in or if you are out.

If you wanted to really get dialed in, though, Jin is right. You have to do the blood pricks, but damn those things are expensive.


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## Jin (Jun 15, 2018)

dk8594 said:


> Pretty much same experience here. I would register on the piss strips first few days,  but as soon as I actually started to burn ketones, as opposed to pissing then out, the piss strips became pointless.
> 
> The wife bought me the ketonix breath analyzer for Christmas a few years ago.   It gave a good indication of how deep I was in Ketosis, but frankly after you have done a keto diet for awhile you can pretty much feel if you are in or if you are out.
> 
> If you wanted to really get dialed in, though, Jin is right. You have to do the blood pricks, but damn those things are expensive.



It's gets pretty obvious you are in ketosis when you can have a tablespoon of coconut oil, and half an avocado, workout for 2 hours and still not be that hungry.


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## MS1605 (Jun 15, 2018)

automatondan said:


> Im on week 2 and im testing my piss for ketones multiple times a day. It is working really well.... I went from no 6-pack, to a decent 6-pack with a nice V at the bottom. I know it will only get better the longer I go. I think ive already lost a few percentages on my bf.
> 
> The only thing I would change if I were to have a do-over, is take in more protein. I was worried having my protein too high would kick me out of ketosis, but it appears that is broscience for the most part. I stay in a deep level of ketosis (12 mg/dl) even at 1.2 grams of protein per pound.



Your macro ratio that you read about everywhere online and watch YouTube videos on is not necessarily broscience, the problem is most and by most I mean like 98% of everything you read online about ketosis is actually talking about medical ketosis. As in the type of ketosis that they treat diseases with at a hospital. Those medical ketosis guidelines are a lot more strict than what we need because they are using it to fight a disease not get shredded for the beach.


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