Starvation/Fat Loss

[CJ]

Here a source from the University of Michigan:

healthblog.uofmhealth.org/wellness-prevention/intermittent-fasting-it-right-for-you

"What is the most effective fasting time window?​

Fat burning typically begins after approximately 12 hours of fasting and escalates between 16 and 24 hours of fasting. "

I believe when the hunger is completely gone is when nearly 100% of your energy is being taken from fat and muscle tissues.

Take a moment, think logically, and please think of how ridiculous this sounds.

Based upon the statements above, it's only possible to lose fat if one fasts for 12+ hours.

We all know that that isn't true, and almost everyone has lost fat before without fasting. Myself included, and more than likely you as well.

 

[OldBuckaroo]

I think you'll probably lose fat and muscle when fasting no matter your body composition, but it'll be far more fat being consumed for energy if you are obese. To CJ's point, your body will try to prioritize its energy conumption source by necessity. You need a certain amount of muscle to maintain the current stresses and demands your body has been acclimated over long periods of time to handle.

 

[OldBuckaroo]

Take a moment, think logically, and please think of how ridiculous this sounds.

Based upon the statements above, it's only possible to lose fat if one fasts for 12+ hours.

We all know that that isn't true, and almost everyone has lost fat before without fasting. Myself included, and more than likely you as well.

That's not even close to what the article says. It's specifically talking about fasting as a method for fat loss. It doesn't assert anywhere that it is the only means to achieve fat loss.

 

[CJ]

That's not even close to what the article says. It's specifically talking about fasting as a method for fat loss. It doesn't assert anywhere that it is the only means to achieve fat loss.

I didn't say it was the only way.

However it did say... Fat burning typically begins after approximately 12 hours of fasting.... which is completely untrue

 

[OldBuckaroo]

I think you misunderstand the article, but I posted here in an effort to be helpful, not to argue with anyone, so I'll stop posting now.

 

[CJ]

I think you misunderstand the article, but I posted here in an effort to be helpful, not to argue with anyone, so I'll stop posting now.

I have no issues with the article, except for that one untrue sentence.

 

[Kraken]

I think you'll probably lose fat and muscle when fasting no matter your body composition, but it'll be far more fat being consumed for energy if you are obese. To CJ's point, your body will try to prioritize its energy conumption source by necessity. You need a certain amount of muscle to maintain the current stresses and demands your body has been acclimated over long periods of time to handle.

Yes makes sense. The context in which I had those discussions was people who were reasonably lean; amateur athletes. I was also thinking in the context of most people here on this board. If we're talking obese people I can see that.

 

[weightlossburn]

Any thoughts on that? I'm not a fan of fasting.

I read that quickly and thought I saw "I'm not a fan of fisting." Then I thought that was such a random thing to say. Glad I read that again carefully

 

[Kraken]

I read that quickly and thought I saw "I'm not a fan of fisting." Then I thought that was such a random thing to say. Glad I read that again carefully

Ah, yeah, I'm glad too!

 

[rescueme]

For appetite suppression get semaglutide. Several well known vendors are now selling this for about $70 for 5mg. Starting at 500mcg a week and working up to 2.5mg a week as you lean up. It seems that there is a tolerance buildup as well as it being less effective the closer you get to say 10% bf.

I will also take 20mg of anavar on days where I feel the hunger has come in a bit too strong. Anavar kills my desire to eat almost as well as semaglutide did when I first started, but it also gives me intense acid reflux too.

I've also been following a simple advice from "vigorous Steve" on youtube - slow walk around the gym between sets. I add about 2.5 miles of walking over a 90 min workout that way. One personal trainer I chatted with at the gym first mentioned he thought that was counter productive as we're trying to bring blood into the muscle that we're working out and the walking would take away from that. I'm not sure how true that it, though it does seem to make some amount of common sense that could be true. However, so far I've only been getting stronger and haven't noticed it was hurting my gains but did notice it was helping with my weight loss.

 

[weightlossburn]

For appetite suppression get semaglutide. Several well known vendors are now selling this for about $70 for 5mg. Starting at 500mcg a week and working up to 2.5mg a week as you lean up. It seems that there is a tolerance buildup as well as it being less effective the closer you get to say 10% bf.

I will also take 20mg of anavar on days where I feel the hunger has come in a bit too strong. Anavar kills my desire to eat almost as well as semaglutide did when I first started, but it also gives me intense acid reflux too.

I've also been following a simple advice from "vigorous Steve" on youtube - slow walk around the gym between sets. I add about 2.5 miles of walking over a 90 min workout that way. One personal trainer I chatted with at the gym first mentioned he thought that was counter productive as we're trying to bring blood into the muscle that we're working out and the walking would take away from that. I'm not sure how true that it, though it does seem to make some amount of common sense that could be true. However, so far I've only been getting stronger and haven't noticed it was hurting my gains but did notice it was helping with my weight loss.

Doxycycline can kill pimples and appetite. 2 birds, 1 stone.

 

[Undecanator]

I'm going to overly simplify my response to save time.

If they are natural, not on PEDs/AAS, then I would guess they would look lean but not cut.

Starving depletes glycogen stores in the muscle. Not just that but it puts the body into a harsh catabolic state, testosterone crashes, cortisol would increase, thyroid function would suffer, sleep would be impacted, and while GH would go up it would result in non existent IGF levels.

It a person is on PEDs/AAS, then they could get away with a starvation diet for longer, as you can avoid the catabolism and testosterone crash, but everything else is still applicable. Don't mistake the bit about avoiding catabolism; as it's still only possible to mitigate this by so much. So I wouldn't expect someone to look cut unless the person already had a decent amount of muscle mass.

I don't know your body composition, but remember that look cut a person has to have enough muscle to stretch the skin so that it looks full.

I avoid starvation personally. I suppose it has a place in the final weeks of preparation for those who are looking to compete on stage... but that's not me. I personally prefer to cut my calories by a moderate amount, and to create my caloric deficit by leveraging steady state cardio.

Very informative, so speaking of glycogen stores, if Op starved himself while being on a moderate to high dose of anabolics would he be able to retain muscle fullness rather than go completely flat? Granted, he wouldn’t look as full compared to eating plenty of carbs.

 

[Undecanator]

I actually had some before and currently take adderall. At nearly 30 I am realizing no matter the supplement/gear It is mostly in my fucking mind.

Just stay busy and as far away from your kitchen as possible. Work more hours or find a hobby outside

 

[Send0]

Very informative, so speaking of glycogen stores, if Op starved himself while being on a moderate to high dose of anabolics would he be able to retain muscle fullness rather than go completely flat? Granted, he wouldn’t look as full compared to eating plenty of carbs.

No, he will go flat regardless.

 

[Undecanator]

No, he will go flat regardless.

Thanks for the response. And say I want to go low carb while blasting 500+ test, would I end up flat in that case as well?

 

[Send0]

Thanks for the response. And say I want to go low carb while blasting 500+ test, would I end up flat in that case as well?

You will look flat anytime you allow your muscles to deplete glycogen. So it's dependent on how low carb you go. Everyone has a different point at which they will go flat.

I'm assuming you are cutting? If so then I wouldn't worry about whether or not you look flat.

Also if you are cutting, it's just about calories in/out. You don't have to go low carb to achieve results.

 

[Undecanator]

You will look flat anytime you allow your muscles to deplete glycogen. So it's dependent on how low carb you go. Everyone has a different point at which they will go flat.

I'm assuming you are cutting? If so then I wouldn't worry about whether or not you look flat.

Also if you are cutting, it's just about calories in/out. You don't have to go low carb to achieve results.

Yeah, I guess for a future blast I might incorporate some carb cycling, not sure yet though. Either way I’d be bulking, I’m just trying to experiment and find a way to stay full without spilling over

 

[Undecanator]

I also asked that because of what I’ve read about increased nitrogen retention from AAS, and thought that process would be independent of carb intake

 

[Send0]

If you're bulking and carb cycling, then I definitely wouldn't worry about looking flat.

Don't overthink or overcomplicate your cycle or training.

 

[CJ]

Thanks for the response. And say I want to go low carb while blasting 500+ test, would I end up flat in that case as well?

You definitely wouldn't grow as much, so that's a bad plan.