Help me lose the rest of this fat (please)

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

Could use some advice from folks with experience getting lean. Like really lean. If you were previously a fatty and have managed to hit <10%BF, even better.

Long story short: I started leaning out back in November '21 because I came to realize I was a fatass. Started at 235ish, got down to 210lb (current) and likely put some muscle on during this time (look at pictures before calling bullshit). Weight loss has effectively stopped at 210lbs. Mirror progress is still being made, but scale has stopped moving. I have a transformation thread if anyone wants more details.

Anyways, I still have some fat pockets left on my lower abs, love handles, glutes and upper thighs ("stubborn fat"?). They're not huge, but I want them gone.

I would like to see an honest 10%BF before calling off the diet, and I could use some pointers on making that happen. I have recently incorporated cardio into my Jordan Peters PPL routine, and plan to hit 30 mins cardio on 'off' days to help deepen the caloric deficit. Cardio has been pretty minimal up to this point, following the advice of someone who is quite experienced leaning out (save cardio until diet has been pushed as far as it can be, then add it incrementally).
^Have not had cardio incorporated long enough to know if this is 'enough' to continue making progress.

Diet (average day)
200-250g Protein
150-200g Carbs
40-60g Fats

My profile picture is current, but an enlarged version of it can be found

Spoiler: here

*Currently on TRT 180mg/wk and semaglutide to help with hunger/diet compliance. I have gear stocked up for my first blast, which I intent to start soon. Not looking for pharma advice, but willing to listen.

Training log here

 

[Oakley6575]

You forgot to mention the only thing that really matters.. Your diet.

What are you eating day to day? What is your maintenance calories at and how deep in a deficit are you?

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

You forgot to mention the only thing that really matters.. Your diet.

fuck me sideways

I edited to add it in

 

[SFGiants]

1st off, great job!

Secondly we do indeed have people on this board that know diet very well that will guide you.

 

[TomJ]

only thing to do is to diet more. there is no secret sauce or secret method.

start doing cardio on training days post workout. get to a 135 or so HR and start the clock for 20-25 minutes.
i do this just walking on an incline on the treadmill.


cut an extra 200 cals from fat/carbs in your current diet and add more cardio in and the scale will keep moving


im a naturally lean skinny guy, and i needed AT LEAST 50 minutes of cardio at 135+hr (went as high as 100m 50m fasted every day, 40m post workout on training days) for the entire 16 weeks of prep, and the diet restrictions to get even close to contest shape

 

[Oakley6575]

If you are struggling, it's probably just an inconsistency in diet. I noticed in your training log, you fit in some chickfila fries and shit in the other day. It's really hard to accurately track things like that. So when you get deeper into the cut, things like that need to go bye-bye to make consistent progress. Not saying you can't make progress eating what you want, I'm just saying it becomes harder to know exactly how many calories those things actually are compared to a meal that you prepare and weigh yourself everyday.

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

I noticed in your training log, you fit in some chickfila fries and shit in the other day.

Fair. I have class 1 day every 2 weeks where I leave the house at 4am and don't get home until 10pm. I could (and should) have just gone with the nuggets, or even just the grilled ones... this was basically my cheat meal, but you're right. FWIW, This is the only occasion when I eat food that isn't meal prepped and cooked myself.

i needed AT LEAST 50 minutes of cardio at 135+hr (went as high as 100m 50m fasted every day, 40m post workout on training days) for the entire 16 weeks of prep, and the diet restrictions to get even close to contest shape

Luckily I'm not aiming for stage lean, probably 8-10% if what that looks like in reality is what it looks like in my head (really objective goalposts, huh? Lol). Still, the answer is to do more and/or eat less. Probably both eventually.

Do you (or anyone else) recommend gradually increasing cardio/reducing calories, or jumping straight into it?

 

[Send0]

fuck me sideways

I edited to add it in

What was your diet when you started? How many times have you adjusted it / reduced calories since you started your fat loss?

 

[Oakley6575]

How much fat do you guesstimate you need to loose to get to your 10% goal?

 

[TomJ]

Fair. I have class 1 day every 2 weeks where I leave the house at 4am and don't get home until 10pm. I could (and should) have just gone with the nuggets, or even just the grilled ones... this was basically my cheat meal, but you're right. FWIW, This is the only occasion when I eat food that isn't meal prepped and cooked myself.


Luckily I'm not aiming for stage lean, probably 8-10% if what that looks like in reality is what it looks like in my head (really objective goalposts, huh? Lol). Still, the answer is to do more and/or eat less. Probably both eventually.

Do you (or anyone else) recommend gradually increasing cardio/reducing calories, or jumping straight into it?

yeah i get youre not trying to get stage lean, but the methods are the same from cutting from 20% to 10% as they are from 10% to 5% just in proportionality.

keep it gradual. youll suffer less and your hold more muscle.
as you stall or stagnate or progress becomes slower than youd like, either cut some more calories, or add cardio, whatever is easier for you to manage.
if youre really not that hungry, cut some food. if youre starving, add some cardio.

rinse/repeat until desired result

jumping strait in would be hell

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

What was your diet when you started?

Calorie target was something like 2500/day with protein the same - carbs and fats landed wherever didn't put me over my calorie goal.

Eventually moved to set macros at 2500cals, which changed a few too many times.
Late last year/early this year, I dropped to 2000cals at macros listed in OP.

Have not further adjusted because of comfort and that 2000 cals/day for a 210lb individual seems quite low. This, and I'd been seeing mirror progress than I'm now having trouble objectively gauging - so I posted this thread for help on a path forward.

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

How much fat do you guesstimate you need to loose to get to your 10% goal?

I think I'm around 12-13% BF but I've never DEXA scanned or otherwise checked it, so I'm not really sure on current BF%. If that number seems accurate to others, I would aim for another 10lbs lost to account for rebound weight.

 

[Send0]

Also if mirror progress is being made, and it's just the scale you're not seeing move, then I'm not sure I'd stress out about it.

If you're looking to drop the weight faster then you need a steeper deficit. There is trade off with this of course (hungrier, cravings, some feel like they are suffering) but you could use something like PSMF to create that deficit without sacrificing too much from a muscle protein synthesis perspective.

The only other way to create more of a deficit is via activity; e.g. cardio. Cardio is good for you anyway and can help you perform better when you hit a mass gain phase. So it might be something you want to consider. You can start with 15-30 minutes a day, and increase slowly. Just don't expect it to add a ton to your daily deficit; it's accumulative over the week... every drop in the bucket counts.

 

[Oakley6575]

Loosing 10lbs of fat would put your weight around 200lbs and 8.5%-9% bf. Should look pretty good there.

You're almost there. If you kept calories at 2000/day and added 15-20 min of cardio daily, you'll get there pretty quick. Diet has to be dialed though or you'll spin your wheels.

 

[Send0]

Calorie target was something like 2500/day with protein the same - carbs and fats landed wherever didn't put me over my calorie goal.

Eventually moved to set macros at 2500cals, which changed a few too many times.
Late last year/early this year, I dropped to 2000cals at macros listed in OP.

Have not further adjusted because of comfort and that 2000 cals/day for a 210lb individual seems quite low. This, and I'd been seeing mirror progress than I'm now having trouble objectively gauging - so I posted this thread for help on a path forward.

You won't die with fewer calories, and you won't necessarily lose muscle as long as your diet prioritized the need for MPS.

Cutting is not comfortable, that's just life.

It's easier to create a steeper deficit through diet than it is through activity. Once or twice a week.

With all that said, if you aren't in a hurry, and you see progress in the mirror then I wouldn't be too concerned with the number on a scale. Just take lots of progress pics so you can make honest assessment of whether you really are seeing progress in the mirror or not. Pictures over w length of time will not lie to you.

Try to strike the same pose, in the same lighting, in the same clothes (if possible).

If you are in a hurry then the only way is to work harder or diet harder.

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

Also if mirror progress is being made, and it's just the scale you're not seeing move, then I'm not sure if stress out about it.

The thing is that mirror progress is difficult to objectively gauge, and I'm struggling to tell if progress IS still being made. I'm doing monthly progress pictures so I can have something noteable to look at, but flying by monthly progress pics can lead to having wasted a whole month... no real-time feedback.

FWIW, I do think mirror progress is still happening, and I'm not really stressed about it - I just don't know if it's happening as quickly as I would like (said by every person dieting, ever).

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

Try to strike the same pose, in the same lighting, in the same clothes (if possible).

I did that reasonably well here

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/andrewgens-transformation-an-ongoing-series.45068/

 

[Send0]

I did that reasonably well here

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/andrewgens-transformation-an-ongoing-series.45068/

I thought I said this, but it looks like my text got shifted around by android.

I suggested taking one or two weekly pics per week.

Then over time you can combine them to create an animated gif and that will tell a story. It would probably take at least a month to see an obvious change. A more trained eye may be able to see the change in about 2 weeks time.

Yes it's not the instant answer you want, but nothing in this "hobby" is instant. Unless something is glaringly obvious, it will be a marathon to visually tell if you're heading in the right direction.

So you can either continue down the visual path you are, or go the measurement route which will require you to make dietary or cardio changes to your routine. For measurements, you could even throw the tape measure and calipers on some of the common and more easy to hit skin folds for good measure... just be aware that using calipers has a learning curve to it, and could throw you off.

Pick your tool of choice and accept the positives and negatives associated with the approach in question.

The mirror never lies, and there's no learning curve or margin of error to figure out how to use it.

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

go gym

What a groundbreaking contribution.

 

[crido887]

What a groundbreaking contribution.

Go gym harder