Help me lose the rest of this fat (please)

[CJ]

It wasn't fasting that did it. It was the DNP and anabolics covering up your poor choice of fasting.

There are MUCH, MUCH better ways of being in a caloric deficit that are more beneficial to muscle preservation.

 

[TomJ]

*Anything past 24+ hours in a fast, and your natural gh levels skyrocket something wild like 1800%, which puts you in a muscle preservation mode while your body is eating your entire BMR's worth of calories + whatever exercise calories you burn + whatever stim (ie clen) burns off you.

this is incorrect.
Its popular buzz speach by the IM fasting crowd but its been disproven literally countless times in the literature.

Acute hormonal fluctuations have ZERO impact on performance metrics.

IM fasting has absolutely, unquestionably, zero benefit in fat loss beyond the caloric restriction

 

[Xxplosive]

this is incorrect.
Its popular buzz speach by the IM fasting crowd but its been disproven literally countless times in the literature.

Acute hormonal fluctuations have ZERO impact on performance metrics.

IM fasting has absolutely, unquestionably, zero benefit in fat loss beyond the caloric restriction

My personal experience, and the experiences of many others, begs to differ.

There is always some kind of particular "study" missing tons of vital variables that comes along to try and disprove something.

Genetics, gear and stimulants - all critical variables missing from these studies - factor in heavily.

But what do i know? I'm just some guy that lost over 30% bf in 18 months with minimal cardio.

 

[TomJ]

My personal experience, and the experiences of many others, begs to differ.

Your personal anecdote is first of all meaningless, your perception of what made a difference is wrong. plain and simple. if you equated calories across the week you would have seen better progress. full stop.
its not a matter of debate, its been studied ad-nauseum at this point.

There is always some kind of particular "study" missing tons of vital variables that comes along to try and disprove something.

like every single study that shows a benefit to intermitent fasting

Genetics, gear and stimulants - all critical variables missing from these studies - factor in heavily.

none of which we are talking about, and none of which interact with being in a fasted state.

But what do i know? I'm just some guy that lost over 30% bf in 18 months with minimal cardio.

by not eating and taking an extremely harsh thermogenic. are you honestly surprised?
go figure, eat zero food and take dnp and you lose weight, what a revalation, the weightloss industry is saved

 

[Oakley6575]

My personal experience, and the experiences of many others, begs to differ.

There is always some kind of particular "study" missing tons of vital variables that comes along to try and disprove something.

Genetics, gear and stimulants - all critical variables missing from these studies - factor in heavily.

But what do i know? I'm just some guy that lost over 30% bf in 18 months with minimal cardio.

Do you coach? If so, can I please sign up? You know all the secrets!

 

[Test_subject]

Fasting works because it makes you eat less by restricting your intake window. It’s not some magical way to lose weight.

You could accomplish the same thing by not fasting and just eating less throughout the day…

These fasting cultists are more annoying than keto people or vegans, I swear.

 

[CJ]

These fasting cultists are more annoying than keto people or vegans, I swear.

But the absolute worst, are the people who drink alkaline water.

 

[Test_subject]

But the absolute worst, are the people who drink alkaline water.

Oh fuck me. Don’t even get me started.

 

[LiftinginIT]

I lift 6 days a week, do intermittent fasting in combination with a high protein low carb diet and have swung now over 70lbs lost in a few months. I plan to continue but thus far the approach has worked.

Most days roughly 1000cal and 150g protein or so range. Not much loss in strength at all, probably more in relation to body weight lost than actual muscle mass. Foundationally protein being required to repair or rebuild muscle, its going to be necessary in a deficit to continue going and maintaining, based on my limited reading as i understand when you remove carbs your body is going to seek to use fat and protein for energy.

Im clearly not any authority but id agree that basic fasting in combination works to shed weight, especially if you are good at maintaining water intake but not over-doing it. If you are trying to see numbers lost on the scale putting down gallons of water is going to play tricks on the scale a bit. Same thing with overeating. My definition of fasting though means no solid food and im drinking clear protein isolate throughout.

If you dig into some of the basic functions of ketosis/fasting to trigger ketosis, low carb diet targeting fat stores as energy, etc. Im not a scientist but its working. If I am going to deviate from the plan I just do not typically double dip into fat AND carbs, its either one or the other.

 

[Xxplosive]

Your personal anecdote is first of all meaningless, your perception of what made a difference is wrong. plain and simple. if you equated calories across the week you would have seen better progress. full stop.
its not a matter of debate, its been studied ad-nauseum at this point.


like every single study that shows a benefit to intermitent fasting

none of which we are talking about, and none of which interact with being in a fasted state.

by not eating and taking an extremely harsh thermogenic. are you honestly surprised?
go figure, eat zero food and take dnp and you lose weight, what a revalation, the weightloss industry is saved

Right. And orals aren't a good pre workout because a scientist on a piece of paper said you have to take them for a week to feel them. Nevermind the CNS boost and most people reporting an immediate strength increase, a piece of paper written by a guy whose never been an athlete told you.

Believe what you want, i dont care to change the mind of someone stuck on a belief. I'll take consistent real life experiences and listening to my body over a chart in a very controlled study.

If I listened to half you people, id still be fat running 1g of test spinning my wheels bc "test is king and all you need to cut if your diet is good".

 

[LiftinginIT]

Right. And orals aren't a good pre workout because a scientist on a piece of paper said you have to take them for a week to feel them. Nevermind the CNS boost and most people reporting an immediate strength increase, a piece of paper written by a guy whose never been an athlete told you.

Believe what you want, i dont care to change the mind of someone stuck on a belief. I'll take consistent real life experiences and listening to my body over a chart in a very controlled study.

If I listened to half you people, id still be fat running 1g of test spinning my wheels bc "test is king and all you need to cut if your diet is good".

Foundationally people seem to over complicate things a bit. I cant speak exactly to at the end of the road min maxing but revisiting the basics first always seems to be the best approach in any situation and if you are going to test a change its best to just make 1 change, test, and see what the result is.

Obviously if you make a number of changes at once it convolutes the result and makes it harder to tell what the actual impact was.

There seems to be this push/pull between cite-able scientific research and this term 'bro science' and people tend to want to either draw a hard line between them or confuse the two.

Experience is experience, scientific tests are scientific tests, results from both are going to vary wildly based on experience and/or controls. Just because the information comes from a dude in a tank top or a dude in a lab coat it doesn't always mean either information is less valuable or incorrect it just means that their experience in their situation was different.

A lot of times it seems in this space there is a 'You should do this because I did it approach and if you don't you are stupid' versus a "This is what I did in that situation, maybe it will work for you, maybe it won't". They are both saying similar things but the way the message is conveyed and received are dramatically different. This right here is the difference between someone that is looking to help people build or someone who is using their experience to put someone else down.

 

[CJ]

Foundationally people seem to over complicate things a bit. I cant speak exactly to at the end of the road min maxing but revisiting the basics first always seems to be the best approach in any situation and if you are going to test a change its best to just make 1 change, test, and see what the result is.

Obviously if you make a number of changes at once it convolutes the result and makes it harder to tell what the actual impact was.

There seems to be this push/pull between cite-able scientific research and this term 'bro science' and people tend to want to either draw a hard line between them or confuse the two.

Experience is experience, scientific tests are scientific tests, results from both are going to vary wildly based on experience and/or controls. Just because the information comes from a dude in a tank top or a dude in a lab coat it doesn't always mean either information is less valuable or incorrect it just means that their experience in their situation was different.

A lot of times it seems in this space there is a 'You should do this because I did it approach and if you don't you are stupid' versus a "This is what I did in that situation, maybe it will work for you, maybe it won't". They are both saying similar things but the way the message is conveyed and received are dramatically different. This right here is the difference between someone that is looking to help people build or someone who is using their experience to put someone else down.

FYI, the guy whom you're quoting in a show of support, his way of losing fat was to not eat for 48-72 hour stretches of time, while taking DNP, Primo, and Superdrol. His words, not mine.

 

[TomJ]

Right. And orals aren't a good pre workout because a scientist on a piece of paper said you have to take them for a week to feel them. Nevermind the CNS boost and most people reporting an immediate strength increase, a piece of paper written by a guy whose never been an athlete told you.

What delusional crack in your stuck in first gear brain did you pull this from? has nothing to do with anything we were talking about

Believe what you want, i dont care to change the mind of someone stuck on a belief. I'll take consistent real life experiences and listening to my body over a chart in a very controlled study.

you mean like the thousands of competitive bodybuilders that get far leaner than any intermittent fasting retard ever has, all while eating 6 meals a day and maintaining nearly all their muscle mass?
that sounds pretty damn consistent.

youre the clown stuck in a belief, youve been sold the biohacking idea that intermittent fasting does some magic voodoo cleansing and that the acute GH secretion increase makes it a 1+1=3 scenario. or even worse, youre one of the smooth brains drooling over "autophagy".

this shit has been tested to death, its not a matter of debate, its no longer a question. It iis firmly proven fact at this point that fasting has no benefit for fat loss than traditional calorie restriction when calories are equated for the time period.
If you choose to believe otherwise youre being willfully ignorant buying into biohacking bullshit than actual facts.

If I listened to half you people, id still be fat running 1g of test spinning my wheels bc "test is king and all you need to cut if your diet is good".

You dont even need 1g of test, 500 is more than enough.
if you spin your wheels on that then you train like youre on your period and your pussy feels ouchy and you eat like a slob.

or..... you're intermittent fasting like a fucking buffoon.

 

[LiftinginIT]

FYI, the guy whom you're quoting in a show of support, his way of losing fat was to not eat for 48-72 hour stretches of time, while taking DNP, Primo, and Superdrol. His words, not mine.

I dont take all the other shit but I have done an occasional 48hr and also im supplementing heavily with protein during those times because the goal is to just simply maintain the heaviest deficit possible and keep the body ketogenic while coming at a minimal loss of muscle. If you strip the other stuff he was taking away, thats foundationally what he was doing. I am able to hit similar weight loss figures without that stuff.

Also, I am not quoting him in a show of support, im basically stating that objectivity is essential and anyone aggressively discounting information from any side is likely incorrect in their approach. Especially if it comes paired with an insult. If someone is going to take the time to craft a response and its laced with trash, nobody gonna listen to you anyway.

This is a forum in a hole in the wall on the internet, there is no guarantee that any of the information cited here is actual fact nor or any of the individuals here who are clearly anonymous that have any referenceable experience other than what they claim to have, which is again, anonymous, removing any real accountability from the table or any motivation to actually provide accurate information.

Is this a place to share information and better each other or a place to promote what is widely applied as the chief stereotype of the community as a whole in that people that bodybuild are a bunch of arrogant cunts.

One of the most common thing that gets mentioned when they interview a lot of the legends is how they would not have gotten there without the community.

 

[TomJ]

FYI, the guy whom you're quoting in a show of support, his way of losing fat was to not eat for 48-72 hour stretches of time, while taking DNP, Primo, and Superdrol. His words, not mine.

im waiting for him to start advocating the medicinal benefits of a therapeutic dose of meth. This dude seems to be on roughly the same intellectual wavelength as the last one

 

[LiftinginIT]

im waiting for him to start advocating the medicinal benefits of a therapeutic dose of meth. This dude seems to be on roughly the same intellectual wavelength as the last one

Considering the only responses you are able to come up with are some level of personal attack or deliberately intended to offend Ill take that as a compliment.

You are clearly one of the core reasons why the general population shits on this space.

 

[TomJ]

Is this a place to share information and better each other or a place to promote what is widely applied as the chief stereotype of the community as a whole in that people that bodybuild are a bunch of arrogant cunts.

This is a place to share accurate and correct information.

One of the most common thing that gets mentioned when they interview a lot of the legends is how they would not have gotten there without the community.

as a community, its our obligation to correct blatantly false misinformation.
when its matters of opinion its important that discussion and debate is allowed and promoted, however in instances where we are discussing matters of fact, rather than opinion, its important the only the most accurate information we are capable of producing is perpetuated, and incorrect information be corrected, so as to stop the proliferation of that bad information.

 

[TomJ]

Considering the only responses you are able to come up with are some level of personal attack or deliberately intended to offend Ill take that as a compliment.

You are clearly one of the core reasons why the general population shits on this space.

im not talking about you, im talking about the guy arguing the benefits of intermittent fasting while on a ton of drugs and DNP.

 

[LiftinginIT]

This is a place to share accurate and correct information.

as a community, its our obligation to correct blatantly false misinformation.
when its matters of opinion its important that discussion and debate is allowed and promoted, however in instances where we are discussing matters of fact, rather than opinion, its important the only the most accurate information we are capable of producing is perpetuated, and incorrect information be corrected, so as to stop the proliferation of that bad information.

Whether its intended to me or not your approach is just basically the same as his.

if the goal is to get people to listen to you could exercise some tact, or if you are going to shit on someone for information they are operating on how about citing these common beat to shit studies you are talking about to spread education and reinforce your point?

Without citing sources, you are basically just a long ass rant and provide zero factual information aside what YOU have been operating on. Mileage may vary.

 

[TomJ]

Whether its intended to me or not your approach is just basically the same as his.

if the goal is to get people to listen to you could exercise some tact, or if you are going to shit on someone for information they are operating on how about citing these common beat to shit studies you are talking about to spread education and reinforce your point?

Without citing sources, you are basically just a long ass rant and provide zero factual information aside what YOU have been operating on. Mileage may vary.

Intermittent versus continuous energy restriction on weight loss and cardiometabolic outcomes: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials - Journal of Translational Medicine

Background This systematic review and meta-analysis summarized the most recent evidence on the efficacy of intermittent energy restriction (IER) versus continuous energy restriction on weight-loss, body composition, blood pressure and other cardiometabolic risk factors. Methods Randomized...

translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com

Intermittent Energy Restriction for Weight Loss: A Systematic Review of Cardiometabolic, Inflammatory and Appetite Outcomes - PubMed

Current guidelines for obesity treatment recommend reducing daily caloric intake for weight loss. However, long-term weight loss continues to be an issue in obesity management. Alternative weight loss strategies have increased in popularity, such as intermittent energy restriction (IER), a type...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intermittent Fasting and Fat Mass: What Is the Clinical Magnitude?

Clinical studies addressing the benefits of intermittent fasting (IF) diets have evoked interest in the treatment of obesity. Herein, the overall effects of IF regimens on fat-mass loss are explained in a brief review through a recent literature update. To date, human studies show a reduction in...

www.mdpi.com

A randomized controlled trial to isolate the effects of fasting and energy restriction on weight loss and metabolic health in lean adults - PubMed

Intermittent fasting may impart metabolic benefits independent of energy balance by initiating fasting-mediated mechanisms. This randomized controlled trial examined 24-hour fasting with 150% energy intake on alternate days for 3 weeks in lean, healthy individuals (0:150; <i>n</i> = 12). Control...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Early time-restricted eating compared with daily caloric restriction: A randomized trial in adults with obesity - PubMed

E-TRE+DCR was found to be an acceptable dietary strategy, resulting in similar levels of adherence and weight loss compared with DCR alone.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Calorie Restriction with or without Time-Restricted Eating in Weight Loss - PubMed

Among patients with obesity, a regimen of time-restricted eating was not more beneficial with regard to reduction in body weight, body fat, or metabolic risk factors than daily calorie restriction. (Funded by the National Key Research and Development Project [No. 2018YFA0800404] and others...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

theres more but i believe this should be sufficient