is it common to return to baseline levels of testosterone after first cycle?

[Send0]

Thats a really good point man, I see what your saying and it is somewhat of addictive thinking. I'm gonna do what you and 1bigun11 said and take natural gains all the way. I appreciate the honesty and directness from you.

No problem at all, and thank you for reading the feedback and not taking it as a personal attack or as passive aggressive (I have a certain way of writing, as I'm sure you can tell). I wouldn't have blamed you if you had taken my replies that way.

 

[ViaTheSky]

It's more common to come back with less testosterone, than it is to return to baseline levels or higher

It will go down anyway, by age...

 

[ViaTheSky]

Most ex-users who stopped say this from personal experience, after cycling few times (not even long-term TRT, but just for 1 cycle per year for 1-4 years.):
- My balls shrank in volume. They never got back to their old size. My balls can now suddenly fall into my groin holes which was impossible before, now i have to be careful for that and flip them out. But maybe i just got older "i dont know".
- My dick gets less hard than before, i secretly need viagra to perform really well, unless the girl is really really hot and teasing me well, i also lost the morning erections I had as natural-me, it never came back the way it was with full hard-on morning wood every morning i woke up. But maybe I just got older "i dont know".
- My "focus, ambition & positive life energy" is less, I have a little bit more depressive/negative thoughts creeping in if i am honest. But maybe i just got older "i dont know".

This is quite real, not a joke. And its just hard to get somebody so honest to admit the above. And some dont even admit it to themselves. But its real.

Then if the above happens to you, what would you do?
1) Live like a delicate health monk until you reach your original baseline for your now-older age. And kind of deny for yourself you ever did it. (so it was kind of a de-tour in your life for nothing, and makes you feel kind of stupid)
2) Or just do 1 more cycle, feel good for 3 months, and then 9 months of sacrificial monk mode again? To live only 25% of the year? (You'd roughly keep your muscle/appearance like this, with spiking it up once a year, but your natural-you can outperform you with mental (& dick) stability or any other aspects than just holding on to your better body composition/appearance)
3) Go on TRT and fix everything (except your ball size) in an instant, forever.

This is how it goes usually.

 

[Send0]

It will go down anyway, by age...

Your chart all shows healthy ranges regardless of age, and regardless of the very slow downward trend. The difference when getting off steroids is not this subtle.

Did you have some kind of point you were trying to make that changes what I said significantly, or flat out makes it false? He asked a specific question, and I answered the question exactly the way he asked it.

My questions are rhetorical, choose your response wisely.

 

[ViaTheSky]

It's more common to come back with less testosterone, than it is to return to baseline levels or higher

This was the perfect response indeed.

I just added some noise:

1) My first post was to remind that it goes down anyway by age.

2) My second post was to say that the loss is "significant enough that every ex-user has a sad story about the loss". But its all foggy, because people are not always honest/open about the loss (of libido/mental-focus etc). And also they dont even know it themselves "because they got older". And recovery takes some time, maybe few years, and then they can blame aging for it later.

 

[ViaTheSky]

I quoted you because I liked the answer. Maybe gave weird response by quoting it like that.

My thoughts were trapped by some guy who once kept defending: "in some cases people come back with even higher natural T levels after a cycle", which I guess is true in those rare cases.
And he defended that religiously (as a way of promoting usage), so then later I thought of the perfect response to that, is to say: even that lucky guy will lose his T levels over age anyway. And also I think such lucky people probably swing a bit afterwards with the T level, and probably have a lucky moment with high T in blood when measured.

In the end we are all guessing, but your answer was perfectly concise & clear.

 

[ViaTheSky]

Personally my best guess:
- If you're in your twenties or early thirties, and did something like 3 months on / 9 months off, for not too many cycles/years like that (let say 4 years), then you can most probably get near to your baseline (for that age) again after every offperiod, and especially after 3 years off when you end it all. You will most probably need those 3 years off at the end, to finally come close again. You will have some loss however, it will come near but usually never the original HTPA virgin level. Not just the temporary PCT crash, and not just 3 years of recovery, your baseline will be permanently lower a bit.( But you dont have a natural genetic twin to compare to, so it will always remain a guess.)

Actually this is my story, I recovered my HPTA.

And for any of the below facts, your remaining T baseline will be worse, in order of importance:
(1) shorter off periods than 2x cycle-incl-PCT length (making it like continuous TRT, just with extra crappy up/down swings)
(2) longer cycles (especially long continuous TRT, but bit less than somebody who just takes idiotic short mini off periods though which are the same as TRT but with more swings.)
(3) being older (especially 40+). (But starting before 21 is also not recommended due to missing natural peak). i mean not only that your natural T is lower at age, but mean that your T recovery ability is significantly less at higher age.
(4) adding in more stronger suppressors like nandr/tren
(5) more cycles/years (even if proper off period done), just by itself, and not counting age, because that is already point3. and age works stronger than the amount of cycles in my opinion,
(6) dosages far above 1 gram/week

interesting if anybody would sort it differently in another order.