Looking for your opinions on my training plan

[Badleroybrown]

Too much volume

So volume does not = growth.
Only heavy weight low reps= growth
The best of both worlds is
Volume & weight = growth…
Most should be able to train with high volume @ 65-75ish% of max weight
If one can not train at this intensity and have volume the re evaluate the program and maybe drop to 55% of max weight…
This is my opinion and what works for me.
Just giving a different point of view.

 

[Methyl mike]

So volume does not = growth.
Only heavy weight low reps= growth
The best of both worlds is
Volume & weight = growth…
Most should be able to train with high volume @ 65-75ish% of max weight
If one can not train at this intensity and have volume the re evaluate the program and maybe drop to 55% of max weight…
This is my opinion and what works for me.
Just giving a different point of view.

High volume training around 65%-75% max weight etc only works if you have the right genetics and are using the right drugs to benefit from the extra volume. Most people overtrain very fast doing it, the majority of trainers should focus on intensity and correct form and the reduced volume is just a natural byproduct IE you cannot do more than a few really intense sets in a given workout. If you can you aren't training hard enough.

Also I don't think anybody benefits from doing overlapping movements in the same workout. IE you don't need to do machine flyes dumbbell flyes and cable crossovers on top of incline barbell presses incline machine press etc in the same workout. I don't recall exactly how OP structured his workouts right now but I remember them being very inefficient with lots of overlap.

 

[Methyl mike]

Well you can check on my avatar where I've got myself with that type of training naturally. However I am currently on cycle and I'm doing PPL with way less volume. Not sure if I'm making a big mistake.

The fact you have some size doesn't mean you are training optimally. For all you know you would be much bigger/stronger if you made changes.

I gave PPL my best and the results told me my normal split works best. I do the same split as Dorian did chest biceps then legs day off back shoulders with triceps day off repeat.

I don't know what it is about PPL that doesn't work for me, on paper it seems perfect but in reality none of the workouts are very productive and the extra sessions every week do not make up for the lack of intensity. I think it's just a way for bodybuilders to be lazy personally.

Ronnie Coleman did PPL the right way and I could not last training like he did. If you can then fuck yeah stick with it! My CNS can't handle it anymore.

 

[Methyl mike]

Hey guys! Looking for critique on my workout plan. The idea is atm to just increase weights on everything, not reps or sets.

Spoiler

1. Chest, calves
Incline smith press 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Weighted Dips 12 (no weight), 2 x 8 (rp to get 8)
Machine press 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Cable crossover 3 x 10
Machine fly 3 x 10 isohold 15 sec (if can)
Smith calf raise 3 x 10
Leg press calves 3 x 15

2. Back, abs
Wide grip lat pull down, weight pyramid 5x10-15, 3 first "warm ups"
Bent over barbell row, working warm up 15, feeder, feeder, failure 5-8
Rope pullover 3 x 15-20
Cable row 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Shrugs 3 x 8-12
Hyperextension 3 x 15-20
Cable crunch 3 x failure
Reverse crunch 3 x failure
A1. Decline leg raises 3 x failure
A2. Plank

3. Rest

4. Shoulders, hamstrings
Rear delt fly 5 x 15-30
Seated smith ohp 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Cable lateral raise 3 x 10-12
Seated lateral raise 2 x 4+4+4+4+amrap 10 sec breaks, drop weight in half do one more amrap
Rdl 15, 12, 10, 8, 6
Lying leg curl 14, 12, 10, 10 - 3ds and partials on two last sets
Leg curl 4x10

5. Quads
Leg extension 4x10
Back squat 15, 12, 1 or 2 feeder, failure
Hack squat or smith front squat 15, 12, 10, 5+5+5+5
Walking lunge 4x10
Hip adduction 3x15
Hip abduction 3x15

6. Arms
Seated dumbbell curls 3 x 10-12
Standing hammer curls 3 x 10-12
Preacher curl 3 x 12-15
Ez bar curl 3 x 8-10
Tricep pushdown 3 x 10-12
Reverse grip pushdown 3 x 10-12
Rope pushdown 3 x 12-15
Rope overhead extension 3 x 15-20
Dumbbell wrist flexion 2 x 15-20
Cable wrist extension 2 x 15-20

7. Rest

Well at least your arms should be big. Can't say the same for your back. Working hamstrings the day before quads is probably a mistake. Starting shoulders by exhausting rear delts thats not something I would recommend personally.

You are trying to reinvent the wheel and it isn't going to happen. Ive done every split under the sun, Dorian perfected bodybuilding training just follow his workouts and focus your energy not in these fancy routines or whatever but focus instead on intensity and making progress every single week. Every week it's more weight on the bar or more reps with same weight without exception.

You can make small changes like maybe you don't like hammer reverse pulldowns so use the pulldown station instead. I dont have a pullover machine so I do dumbbell pullovers instead etc.

Put your energy into execution, strong contractions with slow controlled negatives. Always control the weight

Fst7 was created by hany rambod I was there watching him when he trained Chris cook in san Jose years ago fst7 only really works if you are a client of his hany is very strict with his guys no smoking no caffeine no vaso constrictors or he will drop you. He modifies your diet just so and when you train it's all about the pump. Does this work yes if you are already very advanced. You aren't that advanced yet, you won't see the results you expect or desire from it.

 

[Methyl mike]

Guys, just want to note that as I am going to start my cycle in 2 months, if there is anything you can teach me about the differences training while on gear and as a natty I would be grateful.

Training on cycle should change to take advantage of what steroids actually do which is enhance recovery. Forced reps extra negatives assisted negatives that sort of thing a natty cannot really do because they overtrain fast. Overtraining isn't just your body it's your CNS as well. So, basically, on steroids push the envelope intensity wise really dig DEEP. Like Ronnie said "YOU HAVE TO DIG DEEP!" so do that.

And try not to get injured.

 

[RiR0]

So volume does not = growth.
Only heavy weight low reps= growth
The best of both worlds is
Volume & weight = growth…
Most should be able to train with high volume @ 65-75ish% of max weight
If one can not train at this intensity and have volume the re evaluate the program and maybe drop to 55% of max weight…
This is my opinion and what works for me.
Just giving a different point of view.

I’m not against higher volume for everyone. It’s individual but I get nothing out of high volume training.
Mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth not volume.
High volume training is honestly counterproductive for most people.
Volume is there to make up for lack of effort or intensity. If you have the ability to truly train hard then you will not be able to handle much volume.
I only use 1-3 exercises per body part, with 2-3 working sets per exercise.
If someone isn’t recovering it’s counterproductive to tell them to lower effort and intensity and raise volume.
They should never sacrifice effort for more volume.
You don’t grow in the gym and more isn’t better, better is better.
With volume there’s an inverse u curve where it becomes counterproductive.
Heavy is relative and it doesn’t have to be low weight.
You do have to have sets that are atleast close to failure.

 

[Methyl mike]

I’m not against higher volume for everyone. It’s individual but I get nothing out of high volume training.
Mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth not volume.
High volume training is honestly counterproductive for most people.
Volume is there to make up for lack of effort or intensity. If you have the ability to truly train hard then you will not be able to handle much volume.
I only use 1-3 exercises per body part, with 2-3 working sets per exercise.
If someone isn’t recovering it’s counterproductive to tell them to lower effort and intensity and raise volume.
They should never sacrifice effort for more volume.
You don’t grow in the gym and more isn’t better, better is better.
With volume there’s an inverse u curve where it becomes counterproductive.
Heavy is relative and it doesn’t have to be low weight.
You do have to have sets that are atleast close to failure.

I believe you meant to say heavy is relative and doesn't have to be low reps. Also it's been proven that muscle growth occurs even with high repetitions IE 20 or more in a set so long as the set is taken to momentary muscular failure.

 

[Badleroybrown]

I’m not against higher volume for everyone. It’s individual but I get nothing out of high volume training.
Mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth not volume.
High volume training is honestly counterproductive for most people.
Volume is there to make up for lack of effort or intensity. If you have the ability to truly train hard then you will not be able to handle much volume.
I only use 1-3 exercises per body part, with 2-3 working sets per exercise.
If someone isn’t recovering it’s counterproductive to tell them to lower effort and intensity and raise volume.
They should never sacrifice effort for more volume.
You don’t grow in the gym and more isn’t better, better is better.
With volume there’s an inverse u curve where it becomes counterproductive.
Heavy is relative and it doesn’t have to be low weight.
You do have to have sets that are atleast close to failure.

Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life.
So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12
Then I out 10 pounds on the bar.bang out 8.
The fourth set would be another set of. A hard 8
Then I drop that weight to 160 and pound out a set of 12.
Last set is the same weight and I bang out a solid ten.
At this point I am smoked.
Is this lack of effort, is this not training hard.
I challenge you to this.
Next time you train shoulders.
Do this.
Then let me know how it goes for you.
So sure back in the pl days or when I was training in the lower range I did train in the 5-6 rep range. Much weight.
I grow better in the higher rep range.
There is nothing wrong with high volume training.
What works for me does not work for you.
But I am not a trainer but I gaurentee I have trained with many people and they have grown and they have beat or’s.
When someone questions a persons effort or training intensity, I wish I could train with that person my way… I gaurentee. This person would have a hard home walking on leg day. Or lifting there shaker bottle on shoulders.
Soooo yes you showed a picture of yourself.
I commend you for the shape you are in. Takes hard work and dedication. I am not knocking any of that. I am saying that I gaurentee you that you have a coach or someone setting up a training reg ad diet..You may even be a semi pro.
Most people do not have that luxury.
So you should not shoot out regurgated shit. Cause it may not work for the next guy.

 

[RiR0]

Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life.
So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12
Then I out 10 pounds on the bar.bang out 8.
The fourth set would be another set of. A hard 8
Then I drop that weight to 160 and pound out a set of 12.
Last set is the same weight and I bang out a solid ten.
At this point I am smoked.
Is this lack of effort, is this not training hard.
I challenge you to this.
Next time you train shoulders.
Do this.
Then let me know how it goes for you.
So sure back in the pl days or when I was training in the lower range I did train in the 5-6 rep range. Much weight.
I grow better in the higher rep range.
There is nothing wrong with high volume training.
What works for me does not work for you.
But I am not a trainer but I gaurentee I have trained with many people and they have grown and they have beat or’s.
When someone questions a persons effort or training intensity, I wish I could train with that person my way… I gaurentee. This person would have a hard home walking on leg day. Or lifting there shaker bottle on shoulders.
Soooo yes you showed a picture of yourself.
I commend you for the shape you are in. Takes hard work and dedication. I am not knocking any of that. I am saying that I gaurentee you that you have a coach or someone setting up a training reg ad diet..You may even be a semi pro.
Most people do not have that luxury.
So you should not shoot out regurgated shit. Cause it may not work for the next guy.

Regurgitated shit? What I said isn’t debatable it’s proven and objectively true.
I’ve worked with a couple of coaches but no I don’t have a coach. I’ve studied a lot and I’ve also helped people for 15 years with diet and training, for free. The majority of my 20 years has not been with a coach.
Your hypothetical situation shows your lack of understanding and comprehension.
If you do 2 working sets of hack squats for quads, the first you truly fail, bottom out with decent form for 12 reps. Then you do a set with a weight you can get say 15-20 reps but you stay under it until you get 30-50 reps and your legs are so shot you can barely walk then doing more will be counterproductive.
The only way you could do more is if you lowered your effort or intensity. Literally,not even up for debate, objectively, volume is there to make up for lack of effort.
You keep talking about lower rep ranges. Who said anything about lower rep ranges. Heavy is relative. I’d say a widow maker set starts feeling pretty heavy.
Honestly from this thread and the other thread with the guy you were defending you really have a lack of understanding about any of this.
The reason I don’t only do 1 working set for a body part is because I can’t put fourth enough effort to produce growth from it. If I could completely destroy the muscle from 1 set then 2 or 3 or 20 would be counterproductive and do nothing but dig into my recovery.
You need to learn more before you give advice

 

[RiR0]

Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life.
So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12
Then I out 10 pounds on the bar.bang out 8.
The fourth set would be another set of. A hard 8
Then I drop that weight to 160 and pound out a set of 12.
Last set is the same weight and I bang out a solid ten.
At this point I am smoked.
Is this lack of effort, is this not training hard.
I challenge you to this.
Next time you train shoulders.
Do this.
Then let me know how it goes for you.
So sure back in the pl days or when I was training in the lower range I did train in the 5-6 rep range. Much weight.
I grow better in the higher rep range.
There is nothing wrong with high volume training.
What works for me does not work for you.
But I am not a trainer but I gaurentee I have trained with many people and they have grown and they have beat or’s.
When someone questions a persons effort or training intensity, I wish I could train with that person my way… I gaurentee. This person would have a hard home walking on leg day. Or lifting there shaker bottle on shoulders.
Soooo yes you showed a picture of yourself.
I commend you for the shape you are in. Takes hard work and dedication. I am not knocking any of that. I am saying that I gaurentee you that you have a coach or someone setting up a training reg ad diet..You may even be a semi pro.
Most people do not have that luxury.
So you should not shoot out regurgated shit. Cause it may not work for the next guy.

I do all my own training and diet.
If a guy takes bench from 95 for let’s say 10-20 reps and over time gets it to 300lbs for 10-20 reps he will have a much larger chest regardless of volume.

 

[RiR0]

For educational purposes effort=how close you are to failure.
Intensity is how close you are to your 1 rep max.
There’s also a direct relationship with volume and effort and/or intensity.
I never said high volume doesn’t work but higher effort and or intensity=lower recoverable volume.
So yes volume is there to make up for lack of effort and or intensity. Whether intentional or otherwise.
It’s not an insult it’s just true

 

[CJ]

Ok Ok. Let me ask this…
You say high volume training is for someone who is lacking training intensity or effort. I challenge that.and my freind I am not a newb to training . Been at it for many yeesrs and have moved much weight in my life.
So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12
Then I out 10 pounds on the bar.bang out 8.
The fourth set would be another set of. A hard 8
Then I drop that weight to 160 and pound out a set of 12.
Last set is the same weight and I bang out a solid ten.
At this point I am smoked.
Is this lack of effort, is this not training hard.
I challenge you to this.
Next time you train shoulders.
Do this.
Then let me know how it goes for you.
So sure back in the pl days or when I was training in the lower range I did train in the 5-6 rep range. Much weight.
I grow better in the higher rep range.
There is nothing wrong with high volume training.
What works for me does not work for you.
But I am not a trainer but I gaurentee I have trained with many people and they have grown and they have beat or’s.
When someone questions a persons effort or training intensity, I wish I could train with that person my way… I gaurentee. This person would have a hard home walking on leg day. Or lifting there shaker bottle on shoulders.
Soooo yes you showed a picture of yourself.
I commend you for the shape you are in. Takes hard work and dedication. I am not knocking any of that. I am saying that I gaurentee you that you have a coach or someone setting up a training reg ad diet..You may even be a semi pro.
Most people do not have that luxury.
So you should not shoot out regurgated shit. Cause it may not work for the next guy.

Pulled quote.... "So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12....."

The issue with your example is that I HIGHLY doubt anyone is getting a set of 15 and then a set of 12 with 87.5% of their 1 rep max weight.

 

[Badleroybrown]

Pulled quote.... "So if I can let’s say military press 200lbs.
And I take that and drop it too 175 and bang out 5-6 sets.
First set is a set of 15
And my second was a set of 12....."

The issue with your example is that I HIGHLY doubt anyone is getting a set of 15 and then a set of 12 with 87.5% of their 1 rep max weight.

Understand your point. But I was just making a point using hypothetical numbers. I was not calculating percentages. . I will tell your this… it is doable if the percentages were figured out correctly. It would be mor like 65-70% 1 rep max..

 

[Be_A_Hero]

IMO the holy grail is high reps of heavy weight. Just gotta work hard to get to that point. I’m no expert just my 2 cents

 

[RiR0]

IMO the holy grail is high reps of heavy weight. Just gotta work hard to get to that point. I’m no expert just my 2 cents

This might be the most straightforward and logical comment

Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.

 

[Badleroybrown]

I do all my own training and diet.
If a guy takes bench from 95 for let’s say 10-20 reps and over time gets it to 300lbs for 10-20 reps he will have a much larger chest regardless of

 

[Badleroybrown]

This might be the most straightforward and logical comment

Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.

Hmmmmmmm can I have the floor please. I must say this though… I do not squat anymore.

 

[Send0]

This might be the most straightforward and logical comment

Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.

I thought it was confusing. "Heavy" is relative to the individual. If someone does high reps, then wouldn't that mean they've lowered the weight to an amount that is moderate to them to be able to hit the desired volume?

I have volume days and heavy days in my routine. I could never achieve my volume days if I tried to use the same weight as my heavy days.

Maybe I've misunderstood what you meant?

 

[TomJ]

This might be the most straightforward and logical comment

Can’t argue with that one. I can’t imagine somebody who’s not pretty damn big who could bench 300+,squat 400+, and row 225+ all for 20+ reps.

"Heavy" is relative, If you can get 20+ reps then its not heavy.

 

[RiR0]

I thought it was confusing. "Heavy" is relative to the individual. If someone does high reps, then wouldn't that mean they've lowered the weight to an amount that is moderate to them to be able to hit the desired volume?

I have volume days and heavy days in my routine. I could never achieve my volume days if I tried to use the same weight as my heavy days.

Maybe I've misunderstood what you meant?

Heavy is relative. A 20 rep failure or beyond failure set will feel pretty heavy by the end.
I don’t have volume days. I never have. I’m not sure why they’re even needed as far as building muscle. Look at something like DC you’re pushing progressively heavier weights for higher reps with the rest pause sets.
People over complicate building muscle whether it’s training or diet.
It’s so simple.
Also if you’re pushing big weights for higher reps there’s no way you’re not going to be big.