My opinion on protein intake has changed

[snake]

Well, there actually is. I even made a thread showing the research a couple of years back. It'd be nice if the search function actually worked Mugzy!!!

I'll try to dig them up in a bit.

Thanks!
Yeah we need the search working again

 

[Yano]

Thanks!
Yeah we need the search working again

If you could pull a seach "engine" out with a chain and a come-along i'd tell him to drop this thing off in front of the barn and I'd get it running right for him and drop it back in

 

[CJ]

Thanks!
Yeah we need the search working again

As a preview, if I recall correctly, the study subjects were fed a diet excess in both calories and protein. They labeled the protein with radioactive isotyoes, or some nerd shit like that, and at the end of the study they could tell that no excess protein went to fat storage.

There were a few studies that built upon one another.

 

[CJ]

Found it @snake

There's 3 studies cited, the first three posts...

Eat your protein people!!!

"Effect of Dietary Protein Content on Weight Gain, Energy Expenditure, and Body Composition During Overeating" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3777747/

www.ugbodybuilding.com

 

[Bro Bundy]

What about the digestion element?

Higher amounts of protein can lead to stomach pain, severe gas and discomfort for me. Keeping it around 1g per lb is more manageable.

I fart and shit none stop when this happens

 

[Send0]

I fart and shit none stop when this happens

I shit like 6 times a day whether my protein is 1g/lb or 1.5g/lb... It's annoying AF

 

[CJ]

Ok, I skipped a few steps to get there but that's correct.

I'm not sold CJ. You're a good researcher, anything saying the body won't store excess protein as fat under normal circumstances? You can win me over on this but I'm still not eating eggs and fish for protein.

I was watching an unrelated video, and this topic was brought up in the middle.

In tracer studies, which can tell the exact macronutrient that bodyfat originates from, they show that about 98% of stored bodyfat originates as dietary fat, only about 2% originated as carbohydrate, and almost no fat originated from dietary protein. The talk about this starts at around 5:15 in the video, it's a short video overall.

This is very much in line with all the studies I've read, and what true nutrition experts have said.

 

[TODAY]

I like Paul Carter, but he also says things that don't make sense and contradicts himself. Then gets mad at commenters who ask for clarification, as if it's their fault that he didn't explain things 100% clearly .

On tangent, but not relevant. Paul Carter threw a tantrum over losing followers. Said followers left because he's a big Trump guy. His followers are dumb for leaving just because of that, and Paul Carter is dumb for crying about it.

He marginalizes himself by being a fucking child at every possible opportunity. He might be the most thin-skinned figure in fitness.

 

[buck]

So calories being equal. Those on a keto diet are more likely to gain body fat then those on a high carb diet.

 

[Send0]

So calories being equal. Those on a keto diet are more likely to gain body fat then those on a high carb diet.

Why?

 

[CJ]

So calories being equal. Those on a keto diet are more likely to gain body fat then those on a high carb diet.

That is not what it says at all, but it's what most seem to hear.

The body will preferentially store dietary fat as bodyfat vs other macros, as that's the more efficient process.

 

[Send0]

That is not what it says at all, but it's what most seem to hear.

The body will preferentially store dietary fat as bodyfat vs other macros, as that's the more efficient process.

But what happens when glucose is absent or only available in insufficient amounts?

 

[CJ]

But what happens when glucose is absent or only available in insufficient amounts?

Well, I'm assuming that the researchers tested normal diets. It'd be almost a 0% chance in real life that one would chronically be in a hypercaloric state with minimal carb intake.

But if one did, then some amino acids from the protein would be converted to glucose for glycogen replenishment/fuel, and ketone bodies for fuel, if needed, and the dietary fat would be used as fuel and the excess stored as bodyfat.

There's less steps for the body to take this way, it's more efficient. The body won't perform the extra processes required to convert protein to fat, when it already has dietary fat already available.

In very extreme circumstances, of course it can, but only if it's absolutely required, in any meaningful amount.

 

[someguy22922]

Depending on my carb intake, as I carb cycle, my high day is 1 g / lb, medium 1.5 g / lb, low 1.5 g / lb. When cutting and getting leaner I up it to 2 g / lb for satiation reasons.

Keto is not for bodybuilders. Your muscles run on glycogen, why would you want to deprive them of that?

I can't post links yet (need 10 posts), but there was a study comparing diets, perhaps what Layne looked at, that showed people who ate keto did lose less weight. They think they lost more weight in the beginning due to dropping water, but fat has no thermic effect on calories and does store easier as fat as you mentioned. To store protein or carbs as fat, your body has to expend energy to do so further increasing the thermic effect of those macros.

 

[buck]

As it takes far fewer calories to store fat as opposed to carbs from the studies i saw long ago. Something like 5% vs 20% of calories ingested. It just makes sense that more fat would be stored from excess calories. As fat and carbs are usually consumed in excess by most people at the same time. The body would use some of the carb calories to shuttle the fat into storage as that would be most efficient. Then convert the carbs left from excess to fat for storage

 

[john_and01]

It depends on the person to person and also the type of the built of body. You should consult a good dietician to know the proper protein intake for your body.

 

[vipersknot]

So calories being equal. Those on a keto diet are more likely to gain body fat then those on a high carb diet.

There is no way this is true for me. I just don't think we can make a comparison like this given the huge variations in insulin sensitivity people have.

It is really a problem of trying to study the complex system of the body as independent, linear combinations. The assumption of independence is so wrong that it mostly leads to nonsense conclusions. To me, that sums up basically the entire field of nutrition "science" and why we are always going in circles.

Then factor in that the effects are so subtle, what we are trying to measure is being overwhelmed by measurement error.

Low and behold, the experiment proves correct what the researcher already thought to be true. If it doesn't, you p-hack until it does because when you are a $100k in debt from student loans for this PhD you have to find what you set out to look for.

 

[buck]

There is no way this is true for me. I just don't think we can make a comparison like this given the huge variations in insulin sensitivity people have.

It is really a problem of trying to study the complex system of the body as independent, linear combinations. The assumption of independence is so wrong that it mostly leads to nonsense conclusions. To me, that sums up basically the entire field of nutrition "science" and why we are always going in circles.

Then factor in that the effects are so subtle, what we are trying to measure is being overwhelmed by measurement error.

Low and behold, the experiment proves correct what the researcher already thought to be true. If it doesn't, you p-hack until it does because when you are a $100k in debt from student loans for this PhD you have to find what you set out to look for.

See my post right above.
All statements should be taken as a general rule. If a person thinks every statement has to apply to everyone all the time, they probably shouldn't be allowed internet access.

 

[CJ]

There is no way this is true for me. I just don't think we can make a comparison like this given the huge variations in insulin sensitivity people have.

It is really a problem of trying to study the complex system of the body as independent, linear combinations. The assumption of independence is so wrong that it mostly leads to nonsense conclusions. To me, that sums up basically the entire field of nutrition "science" and why we are always going in circles.

Then factor in that the effects are so subtle, what we are trying to measure is being overwhelmed by measurement error.

Low and behold, the experiment proves correct what the researcher already thought to be true. If it doesn't, you p-hack until it does because when you are a $100k in debt from student loans for this PhD you have to find what you set out to look for.

Can you explain how insulin sensitivity would lead one to store more/less fat than another person? And if so, how does the body close the energy balance gap that that would create?

 

[CJ]

There is no way this is true for me. I just don't think we can make a comparison like this given the huge variations in insulin sensitivity people have.

It is really a problem of trying to study the complex system of the body as independent, linear combinations. The assumption of independence is so wrong that it mostly leads to nonsense conclusions. To me, that sums up basically the entire field of nutrition "science" and why we are always going in circles.

Then factor in that the effects are so subtle, what we are trying to measure is being overwhelmed by measurement error.

Low and behold, the experiment proves correct what the researcher already thought to be true. If it doesn't, you p-hack until it does because when you are a $100k in debt from student loans for this PhD you have to find what you set out to look for.

Oh, and the post you quoted is not wrong. He stated calories in being equal, not calorie surplus.

There are two sides to the calories in vs calories out equation.

It's a small difference in calorie expenditure, but it does exist.