TRT and longevity?

[buck]

I deleted my post because it sounded as if I was arguing, which I was not.

I don't disagree with you. I was just looking at things from different angles.

Fact is that none of us really know beyond the fact that high levels of GH will effect longevity in geriatric patients. What would be useful would be human studies that outline what it considers a high level of GH. I think that piece would automatically clear up so much and make this more of a black and white discussion.

II didn't feel there was any argument. Just a healthy dose of different opinions. I know anything on the net these days that is not total agreement can be thought of as an argument. But i grew up in a time when people disagreed and then continued being civil with each other or even friends. We have often not seen eye to eye, but that is just how things go. And it seems neither of us like giving up on a topic. I rarely find people in the world that see things as i do all the time and expect that. I rarely pay any attention to people's opinions and expect the same in return. We all have one. I like data.

Yes, more human studies would be great but i don't expect any good ones in my lifetime, but we will see. I tend to like much of what David Sinclair puts out on the topic. But smart people can always make a good case for either side of a topic.

 

[ViaTheSky]

With my hypothetical scenario of an old man, I was hoping to force out your "actual opinion":
<<Would you inject your father (from 75-85) with daily T and/or GH, if it was up to your decision? >>

I was hoping to force out some insight about the entire topic in this indirect way, because:
(1) It's not your own "stupid vanity" clouding your judgement, its another person
(2) You want the best for him (the assumption here is that you have a healthy normal relationship with him, and he feels like family)
(3) You dont want him to become old while living like a plant, he'll become useless to you and just a burden.You want him to live and bring value.
(4) Death is really an issue for such man, and at his age you truly think about it. You dont care much about death yet when a person is at half his age.
(5) Sickness is also more an issue for such man. For example: You need to screen for cancer first, before taking hormones, so you dont grow them by mistake. You need to screen blood first, to see if the lipids or other values are not going to be screwed over further by taking hormones. But yeah, if no cancer and relatively decent blood values, would you still give it to your father or not?

Actually my next question would be the same, but now about your son at ±24. I'd go for the extremes, to force out more insights into the topic.

 

[ViaTheSky]

very important point also (if you do it):
(6) You did it, you convinced him, he trusted you & he let you, thus you are responsible for the outcome.

 

[Gadawg]

I know more than one very healthy person in their 70s with natural test levels still in the 900s. I see no reason why, and there is no evidence that a NORMAL replacement dose of test would shorten life. In fact, I think it would likely increase it for a whole list of reasons.

But if longevity is your concern, Id say stop worrying on theoreticals and focus on what is proven. Your V02 max is more important than any other parameter. Second is strength. Focus on those. Stick to replacement doses of test instead of cycles, avoid GH at high levels due to cancer risk, and maintain metabolic health with zero insulin resistance.

 

[Gadawg]

Oh, and spend a significant portion of every day out in the sunshine. Sunlight (well beyond vitamin d) is an extremely important component of human health.

 

[buck]

With my hypothetical scenario of an old man, I was hoping to force out your "actual opinion":
<<Would you inject your father (from 75-85) with daily T and/or GH, if it was up to your decision? >>

I was hoping to force out some insight about the entire topic in this indirect way, because:
(1) It's not your own "stupid vanity" clouding your judgement, its another person
(2) You want the best for him (the assumption here is that you have a healthy normal relationship with him, and he feels like family)
(3) You dont want him to become old while living like a plant, he'll become useless to you and just a burden.You want him to live and bring value.
(4) Death is really an issue for such man, and at his age you truly think about it. You dont care much about death yet when a person is at half his age.
(5) Sickness is also more an issue for such man. For example: You need to screen for cancer first, before taking hormones, so you dont grow them by mistake. You need to screen blood first, to see if the lipids or other values are not going to be screwed over further by taking hormones. But yeah, if no cancer and relatively decent blood values, would you still give it to your father or not?

Actually my next question would be the same, but now about your son at ±24. I'd go for the extremes, to force out more insights into the topic.

No i would not inject him. I would lay out all the pros and cons and let him decided it himself. And if he did not have the mental capacity to make his own decision i would not experiment on him.

 

[Send0]

With my hypothetical scenario of an old man, I was hoping to force out your "actual opinion":
<<Would you inject your father (from 75-85) with daily T and/or GH, if it was up to your decision? >>

I was hoping to force out some insight about the entire topic in this indirect way,

Why? Just be direct and ask the question. No one needs to be forced, people will answer you regardless,.and these hypothetical what ifs are kind of annoying.

Also, why the fuck would I inject my father? He's an adult and can take care of himself. If he asked for help, then maybe... But that's different than making a decision on his behalf.

Just ask a normal question next time.

 

[vipersknot]

Hypothetical case:
1) 75 year-old major-disease-free male, Twin1: you do nothing
2) 75 year-old major-disease-free male, Twin2: You inject 250g T/week & 4iu GH/day for rest of his life

Guess? How will their next 5 years be?
For twin2: Will life improve mentally/physically, or be shorter/longer with gear? Or will gear fuck up his blood and make him suffer/die?
If it was your dad (and he had no opinion, and it would be up to you), would you inject him, or not?

My father is 75. I wish he was on TRT, instead he is quite overweight and drinks like a fish.
What seems obvious reading the longevity literature is that biological longevity is completely dominated by genetics. I think people are largely in denial about how little control we have over this.
The big variable over 75 you do have control over is being strong enough to not have a fall or accident lead to an earlier death than otherwise.
Peter Attia has mentioned that not being strong at that age has a higher hazard ratio for all cause mortality than smoking.
I would not inject my father today with 250mg of testosterone. My father losing a ton of weight and stop drinking in order to be in good enough shape to inject 250mg of testosterone.?
I wish.

 

[buck]

Most of my reading points to lifestyle choices being responsible for how long a person lives and 25% being about genetics in general.

Human longevity: Genetics or Lifestyle? It takes two to tango - PMC

Healthy aging and longevity in humans are modulated by a lucky combination of genetic and non-genetic factors. Family studies demonstrated that about 25 % of the variation in human longevity is due to genetic factors. The search for genetic and ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov