The Heat is On

[DesertRose]

Hey guys! So I started writing a DNP log, but after about eight days I essentially hit a wall and completely ran out of motivation and energy. I'll share that log in this first post, and then follow up in a second post to summarize my experiences over the proceeding days.

Day 1 (200mg powder)
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Nothing noticeable, feeling good. First time keeping my carbs sub-50g for a long time, though. Not sure if that's low enough to induce ketosis over time, but this level seems easily sustainable. Need to find ways to increase my protein intake, though. Loading up a grocery order with skinless chicken thighs and protein powder is on the whey. (Bah dum tish!)

Day 2 (200mg powder)
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Very slight feeling of generalized itchiness off and on today, but no redness or similar. Taking Cetirizine 10mg (generic Zyrtec) during the day to preemptively offset potential allergic reactions. Slight headache in the afternoon, and starting to notice an increase in warmth as I go about my day.

Day 3 (200mg powder)
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Excess warmth is unmistakable now. Turned down the AC, and am very glad I purchased a fan for my nightstand to use whilst sleeping. Have been using my mini handheld fan off and on throughout the workday. Had nearly two gallons of water today, but the DNP seems to be increasing my desire to drink, rather than blunting it as has been mentioned elsewhere. I haven't felt this thirsty in years! (Note to self: some of your ex-boyfriends may dispute that. Follow up note to self: HOW RUDE!)

Day 4 (200mg powder)
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Ladies and gentlemen, lethargy has entered the building. Feeling moderately run down physically, but not really sleepy. Am noticing an interesting side in which my fingers seem to be lagging behind my brain; my typing speed has notably diminished, and I often have to retype words and correct my spelling. Hoping that the incoming Modafinil will really help with this particular side. Should be here in time for tomorrow's dose.

Had very little appetite today. Feeling warmer than ever. If I venture anywhere in my home without taking my little handheld fan with me, I regret it immediately. Am considering having one of my hands surgically removed so I may replace it with mini fan. Kind of like Edward Scissorhands, except I'd be... DesertRose FanKnuckles, or something. I would literally be so cool.

In other news, the neighbor's kid was playing the recorder so poorly and insistently, I had to fight the urge to karate chop him in the throat. So I did the next most logical thing: I blasted Snow's "Informer" out my front door in his general direction, and he was presumably so mesmerized with confusion and awe, all recorder-ing ceased immediately. PWNED.

Day 5 (200mg powder)
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Took 100mg of Modafinil first thing in the morning. First time I've ever tried a stimulant like this. In the lyrics of disgraced R&B singer R. Kelly: "I believe I can fly!" (J/K, I had my typical non-response to stimulants. Will bump up to taking a full 200mg tomorrow.)

Fun new side: my urine perpetually resembles diluted neon yellow highlighter. Fancy! Weird new side: the perfume I'm wearing today smells like root beer. It never did before, honest. And I don't even like root beer! Shenanigans.

I am hot. Temperature hot, rather than "gets random peens in her PMs" hot. Although, there's no better way to make a lady go ice cold than to send unsolicited peen. Should I be typing this? Can't brain, need cool.

Day 6 (200mg powder)
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Full saturation: achievement unlocked! Of the cumulative DNP in my system, that is. Although I've managed to fully saturate the back of my t-shirt a time or two, so I'm typing this topless while watching Frozen in a misguided attempt to cool down by computer generated proxy or something. Maybe I've lost my mind, you say? Then I'll just have to "let it gooooooooooooooooooo!"

I've found that I'm craving fruit for some reason, so I picked up some of those mini cups of Del Monte Mixed Fruit, because fruit cocktail was my ever-loving jam when I was growing up. Of course, that was the kind in heavy syrup that was so sweet it was almost hallucinogenic; this kind is in water with no sugar added, so the carbs are much more reasonable. Of course, eating one of these things makes me feel like I'm a five year old having a post nap time snack. "IT'S NOT A TOOMAH!" (If you don't get that reference, you're dead to me.)

Day 7 (200mg powder)
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REVELATION!

It occurred to me that I haven't ridden the Low Carb Train into KetoTown in several years, so it's possible that the brain fog and seeming loss of mental acuity could be down to keto flu. I'm up to 150mg of Armodafinil or 200mg of Modafinil per day (switching between them) and I'm hoping they'll start kicking in at some point. Not feeling particularly amped or anything, and sleep hasn't been affected, so that's good news. Though I'm not really noting a stimulating response, the appetite blunting effects seem to be pretty legit. I'm not at the stage where I completely forget to eat, like some folks on Phentermine have mentioned in their anecdotal experiences, but the desire seems to have diminished. Could also be down to not wanting to spend any more time in the kitchen than I absolutely have to. OVENS BE HOT, YO. You're welcome for that nugget of wisdom. #TheMoreYouKnow

Speaking of hot, the night sweats have kicked in, and boy howdy - they're decidedly much less enjoyable than working up a glistening glow doing the horizontal mambo. But since my boyfriend is on the other side of the world for the foreseeable future (thanks, COVID) I'll just have to make like the Divinyls and "touch myself" ...with ice packs and cold washcloths, you rascals. Get your minds out of the gutter - and while you're at it, get off my lawn!

Day 8 (200mg powder)
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REVELATION PART II, ELECTRIC BOOGALOO!

Being the Dr. Researchy McResearcher PhD that I am, I was checking out some of the supplements I've been taking on this run to see if they could be potentially contributing to the epic face flushing I've been experiencing. I'm talking next level redness: as though I've been teleported back in time to 1990, and someone just told a wee DesertRose that Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block saw her picture and thought she was pretty. Yeah, THAT red.

I didn't turn up much on the supplements, but I did learn that the effects of Modafinil are blunted - if not altogether mitigated - when one is also using antihistamine. Oops. So the Cetirizine is taking a hike, and hopefully I'll finally get some relief from the constant lack of energy.

 

[DesertRose]

Sooooo, there's where my log ended, because the energy drain just kept getting worse and worse. And as I've learned, you can go into a DNP run having read all the anecdotal experiences, logs, reports, etc in the world, but they may not be enough to prepare you for your own experience; conversely, you may find out that your personal experience directly contradicts what others have shared.

For example: I've read over and over again that DNP blunts thirst, but I've had the exact opposite reaction. I've been more consistently thirsty since starting on DNP than I can ever remember, such that I'm continually drinking water in order to stave off a constant feeling of dryness and dehydration.

Another misconception is that sides are virtually negligible at lower doses; this hasn't been my experience at all. On a relatively low dose of 200mg of powder every day, the heat, sweating, and lethargy have been intense. I also wasn't expecting to have to deal with facial flushing. I have really fair skin - typical Scot/Irish ginger - and throughout the course of the day, my face goes from morning pale, to rosy pink, to a shade that my boyfriend has lovingly coined "tomato bisque". Beyond sexy, I'm sure.

So combating the heat has meant turning down my A/C by about 6 degrees lower than normal, and staying parked in front of a 10" table fan nearly 24/7. If I have to be away from my beloved chill buddy for more than five minutes or so, I use a small, USB-charged handheld fan for supplemental cooling - and on occasions when I need to cook, I relocate my fan to the kitchen or it quickly becomes unbearable.

As mentioned in my log, I had started taking Modafinil every morning but found to my frustration that it had no effect. Then as I was looking for information about what may be leading to its lack of efficacy, I came across posts suggesting that antihistamine medication - such as the Cetirizine that I had been preemptively taking to prevent the potential onset of hives - significantly blunts or outfight nullifies the effects of Modafinil. So I discontinued the Cetirizine, and am happy to report that one 200mg tab of Moda every morning has slowly but surely started to help with the lethargy, with the added bonus of notably reducing my appetite.

However, what Moda had not been able to touch was the other lethargy-adjacent issues I was experiencing: extreme fatigue, dizziness, weakness, nausea, headaches, confusion, and brain fog. I had *thought* that taking a few doses of electrolyte powder in my water each day would be enough to overcome the depletion brought on by the combination of intense sweating, significant water consumption, and adopting keto-ish diet, but I could not have been more wrong. I was genuinely shocked to learn how much sodium and potassium are recommended when eating low carb (at least 3000-4000mg daily of each) and how little was actually in my supplement (99mg sodium and 200mg potassium per serving).

The critical importance of sodium became crystal clear to me after I had a can of chicken noodle soup one night, finding myself too exhausted to cook or even stand in the kitchen long enough to prepare a salad or some eggs. Within about 20 minutes of eating that soup, I felt better than I had in days. I puzzled over it for a while, then it occurred to me that canned soups are sodium bombs - whereas the low carb meals I'd been preparing were relatively low in salt, comparatively.

So I ordered bouillon cubes, and now I begin each day with a mug of chicken broth to get a big sodium hit right out of the gate. I'm also adding Morton LiteSalt, which is half sodium / half potassium, to my meals to bump up my potassium intake.

I'm really hopeful that discontinuing the antihistamine and properly supplementing sodium and potassium (I already get plenty of magnesium through supplements) will help turn things around and I'll start feeling better. I know that "keto flu" is par for the course when going low carb, but feeling constantly overwhelmed by exhaustion was becoming untenable, and hopeful that I'll soon be seeing the end of the tunnel where that's concerned.

But what everyone always wants to know is how the weight loss is... and honestly, it hasn't been mind-blowing. I'm presumably retaining a significant amount of water, and now my period has shown up and thrown a hormonal wrench in the works. Overall, I'm down about 6 lbs in just under two weeks, if I exempt the first day of major water loss from the abrupt dietary change and calorie reduction. And that's with eating at 800-1000 calories below my normal TDEE (approximately a 40% deficit), meticulously weighing/measuring my food, and devotedly logging everything.

So that's my experience thus far. My original plan had been to go low n' slow until I'd met my targets, but with the ongoing water retention, I'm wondering if it's wiser to take a break and let the accumulated water weight come off, so I can get a more accurate assessment. From what I understand, DNP adaptation is pretty minimal but it can occur after prolonged usage unless one increases their dose every now and then - but that can also be mitigated by taking a two week break in between runs to reset the system. So I may do that after the first month, unless you far more experienced folks would suggest otherwise.

I know a few other folks are running DNP right now. How are things going for you?

 

[Skullcrusher]

Are you getting any healthy fats before your workouts?

Fish Oil
MCT Oil/powder
Omega 3-6-9
Avocado Oil
Olive Oil
etc.

I found that it's kind of like instructing your body to burn fat for energy.

I use Sports Research MCT powder for quality or Anthony's MCT powder for price/quality.

 

[Send0]

I missed you! I totally thought you had abandoned us for good!

Thank you for posting, and letting me know my internet girlfriend friend is still alive .

I read the first post, but will catch up on the second one later tonight.

 

[flenser]

Wow, 200mg must be a larger dose for you than it is for me. It may be a mass ratio thing because you are hopefully no where near as heavy as me.

I was thirsty all the time as well, BTW. In addition to water I also drank tons of coffee morning and evenings, and not a small amount of diet soda. I know caffeine is a diuretic, but it's also a stimulant. I'm convinced though that the fatigue is in the muscle tissue itself, and had nothing to do with the nervous system. Muscles get pissed off, and don't want to move, end of story.

On salt intake I had a shaker of extra course sea salt, and liked to shake it into my hand or directly into my mouth, and crunch it like it was cereal. Been a salt addict since I was a kid, so maybe it's an acquired taste.

Waiting for your next installment. There's no way I could have made it a whole month without a break. Don't hurt yourself!

 

[DesertRose]

Are you getting any healthy fats before your workouts?

Fish Oil
MCT Oil/powder
Omega 3-6-9
Avocado Oil
Olive Oil
etc.

I found that it's kind of like instructing your body to burn fat for energy.

I use Sports Research MCT powder for quality or Anthony's MCT powder for price/quality.

Skull, I wish I had the energy for workouts! After I hit that 5th/6th day point of peak saturation, my energy crashed so fiercely, I honestly couldn't find the stamina to just stand up for long periods of time.

I'm hopeful that it was just a fateful confluence of electrolyte depletion, "keto flu", and hormonal woes from that time o' the month that smacked me over like a tidal wave, and that with some mindful tweaks it will subside within the coming days. But it was scary, having to haul a chair over to the kitchen because I couldn't make it through 15 minutes of meal prep without my knees buckling. The heat had a lot to do with that too, but it's finally becoming more tolerable.

Really great advice though, and I agree that my healthy fats have probably been too low, especially for low carbin' it. I take really high potency fish oil caps first thing in the morning, but throwing some MCT oil in my protein/collagen coffee probably can't hurt.

 

[DesertRose]

I missed you! I totally thought you had abandoned us for good!

Thank you for posting, and letting me know my internet girlfriend friend is still alive .

I read the first post, but will catch up on the second one later tonight.

Baby, you gotta make like the Backstreet Boys and quit playin' games with my heart, because I just checked my PMs and STILL NO NOODZ.

Why do you hate me, @Send0?

 

[sfw509]

Thanks for the write up. Always interesting to hear different experiences with the yellow.

 

[DesertRose]

Wow, 200mg must be a larger dose for you than it is for me. It may be a mass ratio thing because you are hopefully no where near as heavy as me.

I was thirsty all the time as well, BTW. In addition to water I also drank tons of coffee morning and evenings, and not a small amount of diet soda. I know caffeine is a diuretic, but it's also a stimulant. I'm convinced though that the fatigue is in the muscle tissue itself, and had nothing to do with the nervous system. Muscles get pissed off, and don't want to move, end of story.

On salt intake I had a shaker of extra course sea salt, and liked to shake it into my hand or directly into my mouth, and crunch it like it was cereal. Been a salt addict since I was a kid, so maybe it's an acquired taste.

Waiting for your next installment. There's no way I could have made it a whole month without a break. Don't hurt yourself!

Love to hear your thoughts, Flenser! Are you finished with your run at this point? How did it all work out for you?

200mg really isn't too significant a dose for me, as I'm a very leggy dame with some meat on my bones, but being a complete newbie to "gear" of any kind probably left me underprepared for what to expect - and to be fair, there are very few substantive logs out there written by women.

My mom stopped over the other day, and not being privy to what I've been up to, took one look at my flushed face and the whirring fan on my desk, and gleefully started teasing me about going through THE CHANGE. She's now taken to calling my ubiquitous handheld cooling unit my "menopause fan".

Anyone in the market for a new mom?

 

[Send0]

Baby, you gotta make like the Backstreet Boys and quit playin' games with my heart, because I just checked my PMs and STILL NO NOODZ.

Why do you hate me, @Send0?

I sent them! Some other mod must've deleted them out of jealousy.

Damn you @CJ275 !!

 

[Send0]

Love to hear your thoughts, Flenser! Are you finished with your run at this point? How did it all work out for you?

200mg really isn't too significant a dose for me, as I'm a very leggy dame with some meat on my bones, but being a complete newbie to "gear" of any kind probably left me underprepared for what to expect - and to be fair, there are very few substantive logs out there written by women.

My mom stopped over the other day, and not being privy to what I've been up to, took one look at my flushed face and the whirring fan on my desk, and gleefully started teasing me about going through THE CHANGE. She's now taken to calling my ubiquitous handheld cooling unit my "menopause fan".

Anyone in the market for a new mom?

Hahaha... Gleefully? Who gleefully talks about menopause. Your mom is simultaneously cool and mean, and I think I would probably like her.

 

[TomJ]

jesus this log is funny

 

[flenser]

Love to hear your thoughts, Flenser! Are you finished with your run at this point? How did it all work out for you?

200mg really isn't too significant a dose for me, as I'm a very leggy dame with some meat on my bones, but being a complete newbie to "gear" of any kind probably left me underprepared for what to expect - and to be fair, there are very few substantive logs out there written by women.

My mom stopped over the other day, and not being privy to what I've been up to, took one look at my flushed face and the whirring fan on my desk, and gleefully started teasing me about going through THE CHANGE. She's now taken to calling my ubiquitous handheld cooling unit my "menopause fan".

Anyone in the market for a new mom?

I lasted 15 days with about the last 5 or 6 eating in an increasing surplus. The last day I ate a 33 Oz jar of whole cashews for breakfast, then went to 7/11 for coffee and bought a 400 calorie protein bar which I ate on the way home. I never ate any cake, though!

Weight loss was 14 lbs during the run not counting the weight I had lost before I started. I dropped another 4 lbs the following week. I would have thought passing the cashews would drop me 4 lbs alone, but I guess not.

So I'm back to eating in a small deficit and planning to start another 2 week run this Saturday. I also waterproofed my mattress and pillows!

My mom and my wife both know what I was on, and they are now conspiring to keep me from starting the next run. I hope I can out smart them.

 

[Skullcrusher]

Skull, I wish I had the energy for workouts! After I hit that 5th/6th day point of peak saturation, my energy crashed so fiercely, I honestly couldn't find the stamina to just stand up for long periods of time.

I'm hopeful that it was just a fateful confluence of electrolyte depletion, "keto flu", and hormonal woes from that time o' the month that smacked me over like a tidal wave, and that with some mindful tweaks it will subside within the coming days. But it was scary, having to haul a chair over to the kitchen because I couldn't make it through 15 minutes of meal prep without my knees buckling. The heat had a lot to do with that too, but it's finally becoming more tolerable.

Really great advice though, and I agree that my healthy fats have probably been too low, especially for low carbin' it. I take really high potency fish oil caps first thing in the morning, but throwing some MCT oil in my protein/collagen coffee probably can't hurt.

Well when I did keto I did go through that period of keto flu where I had zero energy.

Then I thought since I'm trying to get my body to burn fat instead of carbs for energy, I should take my MCT before I workout.

Other useful tips in keto video here:

How to get into ketosis faster (5 Tips)

www.ugbodybuilding.com

There are electrolyte and hydrate powders and drinks for thirst.

Ginger can help with cramps.

Cruciferous veggies and/or supplements for hormone balance and beneficial forms of estrogen...

Zazzee Naturals: Hormone Balance

HORMONE BALANCE

www.amazon.com

As far as the DNP, I have never done it, so I cannot be of any help there...sorry.

Cannot imagine the combination but hope you get back on track with your workouts.

Good luck!

 

[Beti ona]

I'm convinced though that the fatigue is in the muscle tissue itself, and had nothing to do with the nervous system. Muscles get pissed off, and don't want to move, end of story.

Totally, I have sometimes thought that it would be low blood pressure, low blood sugar or that taking caffeine could solve it, but it is not like that.

On salt intake I had a shaker of extra course sea salt, and liked to shake it into my hand or directly into my mouth, and crunch it like it was cereal. Been a salt addict since I was a kid, so maybe it's an acquired taste.

Shit, that sounds crazy, but I'm sure it's a great way to fight hunger.

 

[Jin]

Smart, charming and funny. Glad you’re here.

 

[DesertRose]

I sent them! Some other mod must've deleted them out of jealousy.

Damn you @CJ275 !!

Wait... is @CJ275 jealous because you're HIS side piece and I'm the competish, or is he jealous because your trouser snake is too long for your thong? Color me intrigued.

Hahaha... Gleefully? Who gleefully talks about menopause. Your mom is simultaneously cool and mean, and I think I would probably like her.

My mom can be evil. When I first got my period, she trooped me into the "feminine hygiene" section of our local drugstore and started literally throwing packs of pads at me down the aisle while loudly asking "WAS IT THE SUPER ABSORBANT KIND WITH WINGS THAT YOU WANTED, HONEY? SHOULD WE GET THE MEGA JUMBO PACK?"

I got her back some years later by covering all the ketchup, mustard, salad dressing, etc bottles in our fridge with prophylactics the night she brought her new boyfriend over to meet us. "Would you like some condom-ents with your meal, sir?"

 

[DesertRose]

I lasted 15 days with about the last 5 or 6 eating in an increasing surplus. The last day I ate a 33 Oz jar of whole cashews for breakfast, then went to 7/11 for coffee and bought a 400 calorie protein bar which I ate on the way home. I never ate any cake, though!

Weight loss was 14 lbs during the run not counting the weight I had lost before I started. I dropped another 4 lbs the following week. I would have thought passing the cashews would drop me 4 lbs alone, but I guess not.

So I'm back to eating in a small deficit and planning to start another 2 week run this Saturday. I also waterproofed my mattress and pillows!

My mom and my wife both know what I was on, and they are now conspiring to keep me from starting the next run. I hope I can out smart them.

Oooh, 33 oz of cashews sounds like bliss. Did you find that cravings really started to kick in at some point? I haven't noticed that yet, but it might be down to the Modafinil doing its appetite-blunting thing, or the low carb diet in general.

That's some awesome weight loss, happy for you! Really hope that your next run goes well. Remind me: what dose do you like to stick with?

 

[DesertRose]

Other useful tips in keto video here:

How to get into ketosis faster (5 Tips)

www.ugbodybuilding.com

Good luck!

Cheers for the link and your well wishes, Skull! Will absolutely be checking out that video. I have a sneaky feeling that I may not be hitting low enough carb macros to get into ketosis, as I'm usually somewhere in the 30 - 50g range when the day is done. But to be honest, I'm happy enough with that and I have to watch myself carefully to not get into hyper-tracking mode with macros, because it tends to trigger old eating disorder behaviors. That's why I track calories, carbs, and protein, but not fat - because I grew up being so immersed in "low fat is king" diet culture, that I have to keep fat grams out of my log or I'll become too fixated on trying to keep them low, which will lead to a domino effect of poor outcomes.

Smart, charming and funny. Glad you’re here.

Awww, bless. Thanks Jin, you're really kind and welcoming. Appreciate you!

 

[Trump]

Cheers for the link and your well wishes, Skull! Will absolutely be checking out that video. I have a sneaky feeling that I may not be hitting low enough carb macros to get into ketosis, as I'm usually somewhere in the 30 - 50g range when the day is done. But to be honest, I'm happy enough with that and I have to watch myself carefully to not get into hyper-tracking mode with macros, because it tends to trigger old eating disorder behaviors. That's why I track calories, carbs, and protein, but not fat - because I grew up being so immersed in "low fat is king" diet culture, that I have to keep fat grams out of my log or I'll become too fixated on trying to keep them low, which will lead to a domino effect of poor outcomes.



Awww, bless. Thanks Jin, you're really kind and welcoming. Appreciate you!

You can buy keto test strips on Amazon to see if your in ketosis