New Blood Work In

Whatever80 · Mar 5, 2024

Good afternoon, fellas -
On 2/5 my T was at 964 and E2 was 37. I decided to get labs done a few days ago from my primary, before going to my TRT doc in 2 weeks and here is what they are now:
Total - 1053
Free - 216
E2 - 79

And this was also on pin day, meaning it had been 5 days since last pin.
Im not experiencing any sides (tender nipples, etc). Still working on getting my BF down though, as it’s been a pain in the ass - even with a slight deficit over the past few weeks.

Thoughts on the E2? It’s high, but no noticeable sides…

Whatever80 · Mar 5, 2024

Whatever80 said:
Good afternoon, fellas -
On 2/5 my T was at 964 and E2 was 37. I decided to get labs done a few days ago from my primary, before going to my TRT doc in 2 weeks and here is what they are now:
Total - 1053
Free - 216
E2 - 79

And this was also on pin day, meaning it had been 5 days since last pin.
Im not experiencing any sides (tender nipples, etc). Still working on getting my BF down though, as it’s been a pain in the ass - even with a slight deficit over the past few weeks.

Thoughts on the E2? It’s high, but no noticeable sides…

Also - cholesterol is 161 and normal, but LDL is high at 104. I do not eat foods that contribute to this. These labs are fucking with me.

BigBaldBeardGuy · Mar 5, 2024

Whatever80 said:
Also - cholesterol is 161 and normal, but LDL is high at 104. I do not eat foods that contribute to this. These labs are fucking with me.

Foods don’t contribute to cholesterol anyway.

buck · Mar 5, 2024

Many long-term studies i have seen show long term negative side effects start for the heart, prostate and liver by the time people are at the top of the normal range. Just depends on your comfort zone as to if you are ok with those E2 levles.

Most all cholesterol is made in the bode and is not from food that is eaten.

Whatever80 · Mar 6, 2024

Thanks for the info about cholesterol - overall cholesterol was good so not terribly concerned looking back.
But I just wasn’t anticipating E2 being that high from what I’m running and with my current T levels, and especially not feeling any sides. It would be nice to bring it below 40 with some Aromasin - I’ve just always read that one wants E2 as high as it can go without sides. But I guess that’s until it gets to a certain point. Definitely choose health.

Gadawg · Mar 6, 2024

buck said:
Many long-term studies i have seen show long term negative side effects start for the heart, prostate and liver by the time people are at the top of the normal range. Just depends on your comfort zone as to if you are ok with those E2 levles.

Most all cholesterol is made in the bode and is not from food that is eaten.

Do those studies cofound for the fact that most regular men with high estrogen are gonna be fat, and thus, metabolically ill?

Whatever80 · Mar 6, 2024

Gadawg said:
Do those studies cofound for the fact that most regular men with high estrogen are gonna be fat, and thus, metabolically ill?

I was wondering about that as well, as there were very little studies (that I could find) that show the “natural” uninhibited aromatse levels in relation to and in reaction to increased test. The only one I found said that if the T:E was less than 10:1 if I read it correctly. So if I’m at 1053 and E2 at 73, not experiencing any sides (in fact, massive strength gains and increased muscle mass), maybe that could be interpreted as more than the 10:1 ratio and thus, not too problematic?
I’m just asking, as I want to be healthy, but also want to maximize gains.

buck · Mar 6, 2024

Gadawg said:
Do those studies cofound for the fact that most regular men with high estrogen are gonna be fat, and thus, metabolically ill?

These studies started decades ago when people were less fat. I go with the best data i have available to me whether i like it or not when making decisions. Do you have any data stating something different?

Whatever80 · Mar 6, 2024

bigdguy said:
Hey guys I recently got bloodwork and I am a bit curious about my estrogen level.
I am currently on 250mg TE per week. I do 125mg Mon and 125mg Thu.

Testosterone >1500 ng/dL
Estradiol 65.1 pg/mL

The lab says normal estradiol levels are 8-42pg/mL. But wanted to ask if this a normal balance considering the dosage, or should I lower my estradiol?
I don’t think I have any side effects. I have an AI or some Masteron I could use if needed.

Gadawg said:
Estrogen is both cardio and neuroprotective. It is also anabolic. Unless your levels are causing side effects, no worries.

Looks like there was a previous thread I should have read… while his test was much higher than mine, and E a bit lower, the message seems to be clear.
I’ll keep an eye on it - I’ll also try to read more prior to asking questions that have already been addressed

Gadawg · Mar 7, 2024

buck said:
These studies started decades ago when people were less fat. I go with the best data i have available to me whether i like it or not when making decisions. Do you have any data stating something different?

Nope. Never heard a word about estrogen being an issue (outside of blood pressure) for male health until just recently. So I wondered, if like tons of studies, if correlation may not equal causation.

buck · Mar 8, 2024

Gadawg said:
Nope. Never heard a word about estrogen being an issue (outside of blood pressure) for male health until just recently. So I wondered, if like tons of studies, if correlation may not equal causation.

Or maybe since estrogen and males is only in recent years come up. It has not been looked into much so studies would tend to be more recent. With few available. But that does not mean it is not important. I have done searches and sound such studies. When i talked to a urologist and an endocrinologist 20 years ago both said E2 was not an issue for men and would not run tests for it. So of course, i went elsewhere. Can't say i have seen anything health wise that didn't have a range for health where to much or too little was bad.

Gadawg · Mar 8, 2024

buck said:
Or maybe since estrogen and males is only in recent years come up. It has not been looked into much so studies would tend to be more recent. With few available. But that does not mean it is not important. I have done searches and sound such studies. When i talked to a urologist and an endocrinologist 20 years ago both said E2 was not an issue for men and would not run tests for it. So of course, i went elsewhere. Can't say i have seen anything health wise that didn't have a range for health where to much or too little was bad.

Yeah, Id love to see this delved into further.

Ive heard it supposed that women develop heart disease about ten years later than men due to the protective nature of estrogen until menopause. Would be great to understand all the protective, or damaging, nature of these hormones.

For instance, Ive always questioned the supposed safety of finasteride, which either drastically lowers, or completely terminates DHT production.

Good? Bad? I dunno.

buck · Mar 8, 2024

Gadawg said:
Yeah, Id love to see this delved into further.

Ive heard it supposed that women develop heart disease about ten years later than men due to the protective nature of estrogen until menopause. Would be great to understand all the protective, or damaging, nature of these hormones.

For instance, Ive always questioned the supposed safety of finasteride, which either drastically lowers, or completely terminates DHT production.

Good? Bad? I dunno.

Men also traditionally have weighed more them women and that leads to higher heart problems even for women. And men drank and smoked more than women traditionally along with jobs that were less healthy along with all the other negative things men tended to do more than women. So when scientist say it is the estrogen that is the reason there are far more things involved. And just because they try to put me down their rabbit hole doesn't mean i have to go there.

Men seem to do better at the high end of the normal T scale then men at the lower end. But i do not think that means that taking women's T levels higher than normal should be healthy for them. They are built to run on E and men run on T.
I just go with the best data i have now and go from there. Others should do what is in their comfort zone.

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2008/11/dangers-of-excess-estrogen-in-the-aging-male

Circulating Estradiol and Mortality in Men With Systolic Chronic Heart Failure

Context Androgen deficiency is common in men with chronic heart failure (HF) and is associated with increased morbidity and mortality. Estrogens are formed by the aromatization of androgens; therefore, abnormal estrogen metabolism would be anticipated in HF.Objective To examine the relationship...

jamanetwork.com

Estradiol levels are elevated in older men with diffuse cutaneous SSc and are associated with decreased survival - Arthritis Research & Therapy

Background Systemic sclerosis (SSc) is a female-predominant disease, characterized by excessive extracellular matrix deposition (ECM) with dermal and internal organ fibrosis. Considering the sex-based disparity in disease incidence, estradiol (E2), an estrogen form with pro-fibrotic effects, may...

arthritis-research.biomedcentral.com

Adverse Effects Of High Levels Of Estradiol In Men

Article courtesy of: Thierry Hertoghe, MD., author of “Testosterone, the Therapy for Real Gentlemen”. A man’s body is adapted to relatively high amounts of male hormones, such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone, and relatively low levels of female hormones, such as estradiol and estrone. A...

www.worldhealth.net

New Blood Work In

Whatever80

Whatever80

BigBaldBeardGuy

Elite

buck

Senior Member

Whatever80

Gadawg

The Tick

Whatever80

buck

Senior Member

Whatever80

Gadawg

The Tick

buck

Senior Member

Gadawg

The Tick

buck

Senior Member

Circulating Estradiol and Mortality in Men With Systolic Chronic Heart Failure

Estradiol levels are elevated in older men with diffuse cutaneous SSc and are associated with decreased survival - Arthritis Research & Therapy

Adverse Effects Of High Levels Of Estradiol In Men

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