Is Training to Failure Worse for Gains?

[CJ]

The most important way to train is not to injure yourself

I was going to say something very similar. He who can train the longest without injuries will come out ahead.

 

[Bro Bundy]

I was going to say something very similar. He who can train the longest without injuries will come out ahead.

It toook me along time to understand this

 

[Yano]

It toook me along time to understand this

I still fuck it up and I know better , sucks

 

[andy]

i think it's good to your CNS to go crazy time to time.

 

[andy]

but u cant train like that all the time - u will get injured at some point if u do that.

 

[buck]

I tend to find that what a person is willing to apply themselves to works the better than the greatest training program that they don't like doing. But that is just me.

 

[BRICKS]

Ok, full disclosure. The truth. Just finished training legs. Here's the hypertrophy checklist:

Didn't have a heart attack: check
Didn't have a stroke: check
Didn't snap anything: check
Didn't shit myself: check

Bonus points: accomplishing the training I had programmed.

 

[Gadawg]

Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman werent leaving any reps in reserve….

Honestly, that little phrase kinda gives me douche chills.

 

[CJ]

Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman werent leaving any reps in reserve….

Honestly, that little phrase kinda gives me douche chills.

As it should.

 

[JeffGoldblumLips]

The thing that confuses me with RIR/failure is the amount of body english people use to get the last reps. It looks like they're recruiting way more muscles than what they're targeting.
If you just stop lifting once your technique breaks down doesn't that automatically put you 1-3 reps away from failure?

 

[buck]

Also depends on how one defines failure. We all have our own opinion. So i am not sure what they used as a guideline for the studies.

 

[eazy]

how one defines failure. We all have our own opinion

if you already mentioned it in this thread I missed it.

what's your opinion on the definition of failure?

 

[CJ]

The thing that confuses me with RIR/failure is the amount of body english people use to get the last reps. It looks like they're recruiting way more muscles than what they're targeting.
If you just stop lifting once your technique breaks down doesn't that automatically put you 1-3 reps away from failure?

Once your form breaks, you're bringing other muscles and/or leverages into it, and therefore actually putting LESS stress on the target muscles.

Once you can no longer complete a rep WITH PROPER FORM, you are at RIR-0. There is an allowable margin of form break that's acceptable though. But you can see when someone is doing junk reps.

 

[buck]

if you already mentioned it in this thread I missed it.

what's your opinion on the definition of failure?

I have no exact definition perse. But when i have to loosen my form to where the main muscles are not really being targeted i am just heaving the weight or injury potential goes up more than acceptable. Perfect form can be be a matter of opinion. Espcially depending ones structure i find.

 

[CJ]

Also depends on how one defines failure. We all have our own opinion. So i am not sure what they used as a guideline for the studies.

There is no opinion, it's totally objective. Failure is when you can no longer complete a rep with proper form, for bodybuilding.

 

[CJ]

I have no exact definition perse. But when i have to loosen my form to where the main muscles are not really being targeted i am just heaving the weight or injury potential goes up more than acceptable. Perfect form can be be a matter of opinion. Espcially depending ones structure i find.

Form can be variable, yes, as best form can vary based upon a person's individual body/needs/injury/etc... But not failure. There's no opinion on that. If your form changes, you're doing a completely different movement.

 

[buck]

There is no opinion, it's totally objective. Failure is when you can no longer complete a rep with proper form, for bodybuilding.

Yes it is subjective. So each person gets to be the judge. If a person has to change their tempo, then some call that not perfect form and can be failure, as the speed they think is optimal in no longer being achieved. There are variables in reps not just the path the bar takes.

 

[CJ]

Yes it is subjective. So each person gets to be the judge. If a person has to change their tempo, then some call that not perfect form and can be failure, as the speed they think is optimal in no longer being achieved. There are variables in reps not just the path the bar takes.

Tempo has absolutely nothing to do with form. In fact, rep speed slowing as you approach failure is required, as your muscles are struggling right up until they can no longer complete a rep.

 

[buck]

Tempo has absolutely nothing to do with form. In fact, rep speed slowing as you approach failure is required, as your muscles are struggling right up until they can no longer complete a rep.

Tempo has to do with quality of reps. If a person lowers the bar faster to get more rebound some call that cheating. Others would say they haven't hit failure. If i lean a tiny bit doing DB curls is that allowed? Many would say yes. Some would say only the forearm can move to be a good rep. As we are seeing here opinions differ which was my point. I just am still asking what parameters the studies used to determine failure. As i am sure they didn't follow my opinion but had their own. I am betting all research scientist do not follow the exact same protocol for what a rep is. As even exerts in biology do not all agree on the same thing. Neither do weight lifters i find.

 

[CJ]

Tempo has to do with quality of reps. If a person lowers the bar faster to get more rebound some call that cheating. Others would say they haven't hit failure.

Rebound is not tempo.

If i lean a tiny bit doing DB curls is that allowed? Many would say yes. Some would say only the forearm can move to be a good rep.

It's allowed, meaning nobody is going to arrest you. But once you lean, you're no longer doing the same movement, you've taking load off the biceps by changing the force curve and leverage points.

As we are seeing here opinions differ which was my point. I just am still asking what parameters the studies used to determine failure.

Failure is when the task can no longer be completed with the proper form. Crystal clear.

As i am sure they didn't follow my opinion but had their own. I am betting all research scientist do not follow the exact same protocol for what a rep is. As even exerts in biology do not all agree on the same thing. Neither do weight lifters i find.