Help me decide when to stop cutting...

[Kraken]

June is just 4 short months away and I need to put on some muscle, although I realize I can't add much in 16 weeks. I have been cutting, not working nearly as hard as I should at the gym, and I made myself skinny-fat.

I think I have 5 to 8 more pounds to go to look as descent as a skinny fat guy can, although I'm not sure. When should the bulk start? Truly, I'm afraid to add calories for fear of gaining the fat back, so I want to be careful about adding a bunch of calories. If I post a pic, would y'all minding giving me the brutal truth?

Then if it's time, I would appreciate some training advice. I have been doing stronglifts on and off, not sure if I can do better.

 

[PZT]

I would never start bulking at skinny fat stage unless the goal was just to be fat jacked as possible and even then the extra fat will even keep you from gaining muscle optimally. Even for me being lean and then bulking I always took it too far.

 

[aym974]

you should NOT go to a bulk/cut when you skinnyfat, get strong.

 

[Yano]

I've been told i'm a bit of a mutant cus you're not supposed to be able to cut and put weight on a bar and get stronger but it is possible just not fun.

I was taught to focus on protein get it high , if ya need 200 go 240 , 260 fill in the rest of your macros with whatever carbs n fat you got left.

Keep away from any processed shit , chicken pork fish rice 000 yogurt blueberries , fuck sugar.

You know how deep you can cut better than any of us so setting your cal limit is up to you , I've gone down as far as 1300 for a few weeks at a time ,, it works great but it is fucking miserable haaahaha.

You should be able to melt off the rest of what you want gone fairly quickly and while that's going on start to tighten up and get something solid to build on.

Don't get too hung up on 16 weeks , if you're talking about gear that's way more than enough time to see some solid gains. Even 10 -12 is plenty depending on how hard you work and what you choose to use.

 

[CJ]

Let's see a current pic.

 

[Kraken]

Let's see a current pic.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the comments. I tend to be hyper critical of my body, for whatever reason. Whether I'm skinny fat or not, I'm not sure. I do still have belly fat and it's moving. Anyhow, objective opinions of my current state from people who know this stuff better than I are appreciated.

I'll get my girlfriend to snap some pics later today. Thanks again.

 

[snake]

I would never start bulking at skinny fat stage unless the goal was just to be fat jacked as possible and even then the extra fat will even keep you from gaining muscle optimally. Even for me being lean and then bulking I always took it too far.

I'm with brother PRZ here.

 

[John Ziegler]

Let's see a current pic

look into the crystal ball

 

[Kraken]

Pics taken today, Jan 29, 2024. I'm 5ft 6in, 140 pounds.

 

[Send0]

Good for you for posting pics, even while skinny fat.

How big is your current caloric deficit?

Without knowing your caloric deficit, I'd say start your bulk now by adding around 100-150 calories per week. Your body should be able to absorb those calories easily. Keep increasing this weekly until your weight stabilizes (you'll put on some weight initially as glycogen), and you are gaining about 0.5lbs per week.

If your caloric deficit is huge, then you can get away with adding more calories per week.

 

[Kraken]

Good for you for posting pics, even while skinny fat.

How big is your current caloric deficit?

Without knowing your caloric deficit, I'd say start your bulk now by adding around 100-150 calories per week. Your body should be able to absorb those calories easily. Keep increasing this weekly until your weight stabilizes (you'll put on some weight initially as glycogen), and you are gaining about 0.5lbs per week.

If your caloric deficit is huge, then you can get away with adding more calories per week.

Thanks very much. Right now the deficit is 500 to 700 per day, which leaves about 1,100 to eat. The scale has slowed a bit but still moves. Frankly I'm afraid to add calories but I realize I have to. I don't know that I can add as many as 100 per week, do you think I can with just a 500 deficit?

I had not been paying much attention to macros, but now I'm trying to get at least 105 grams protein daily. As I type this, I realize I should up that to 140 grams daily which would be 560 calories from protein, leaving 540 for carbs and fat.

 

[Send0]

Thanks very much. Right now the deficit is 500 to 700 per day, which leaves about 1,100 to eat. The scale has slowed a bit but still moves. Frankly I'm afraid to add calories but I realize I have to. I don't know that I can add as many as 100 per week, do you think I can with just a 500 deficit?

I had not been paying much attention to macros, but now I'm trying to get at least 105 grams protein daily. As I type this, I realize I should up that to 140 grams daily which would be 560 calories from protein, leaving 540 for carbs and fat.

the goal of adding 100 cals per week is to ease you back into maintenance, and eventually a small surplus. If you have a 500 cal deficit, then that gives you 5 weeks to ease into maintenance, and then the following 2-3 weeks after that will put you into a bulk (you only need ~300-350 cal surplus per week to grow).

If you're growing well, and staying mostly lean, then you can keep adding calories about once every 2-4 weeks.

You should be afraid of cutting more, vs eating more. I believe you've reached the point where any more weight loss is just going to make you look worse. If you do this bulk right, then you'll continue to lean out for at least 5 weeks while putting on muscle.

Drugs of course help with nutrient partitioning/uptake; whether it's just TRT or an actual cycle. Meaning you'll be able to eat more than usual and still minimize fat gain.

If you're really scared of fat gain, then just keep doing cardio every week. 2-3 sessions per week should be enough to offset things slightly... but don't do too much cardio or else your recovery will probably suffer, as will your ability to gain mass.

 

[CJ]

Pics taken today, Jan 29, 2024. I'm 5ft 6in, 140 pounds.

You're a skinny guy with loose skin. Stop the crazy dieting you're on(1,100 Cals? Seriously?) because you're not going to be happy with your look.

Bump the Cals up to maintenance IMMEDIATELY. Get your protein up to 150+ grams. Your deficit days are over, it's hindering you at this point.

Your maintenance Cals will slowly creep up as your body realizes that it's no longer starving, and will actually start to add muscle tissue to your frame. Yes, your new maintenance calories will become a deficit as your body recovers. Keep increasing your Cals every couple of weeks or so, to match what's happening on the scale. No more losing weight!!!

As Sendo stated, don't be nervous about an initial weight gain. It's your muscles and liver being refueled with glycogen and water.

Crash diets are fucking stupid, don't ever do them again. It's a vicious cycle that ends in one looking absolutely terrible, and incredibly unhealthy.

 

[Kraken]

Okay thanks guys, I'm happy to eat more and I appreciate the advice. But there is still a bunch of belly fat I can grab, and a little love handles and even some on my back (not much). How do I get rid of that while increasing calories?

 

[CJ]

Okay thanks guys, I'm happy to eat more and I appreciate the advice. But there is still a bunch of belly fat I can grab, and a little love handles and even some on my back (not much). How do I get rid of that while increasing calories?

At this point, don't worry about it. Your body is so depleted from eating poverty calorie levels, it's going to do everything that it can to hold onto that fat for survival. Your body has no idea that food is plentiful, that you're choosing to starve it. Any weight loss now is probably lean tissue being eaten away.

Increase to maintenance calories immediately. As I stated previously, as your body recovers, your metabolism will adapt and start to burn more calories to put on leant issue. That maintenance level will become a SLIGHT deficit shortly, and your body will pull the calories that it needs from bodyfat stores. It will not, however, do this if you starve yourself.

If you lose fat at this point, consider it a bonus. Your goal is to add lean tissue, you have the muscle mass of an early teenage boy. That's not good.

Asyku build your metabolism back up, you'll find that your maintenance calories will continue to climb, 2500...2700...3000...3250...

At this point you have added lean mass, and you can start a diet, IF NECESSARY, at a much higher calorie starting point. You'll have lots of runway to work with to lower Cals at that point, without starving yourself.

I've dropped 9.2 lbs in the last four weeks averaging about 3300 calories, because I worked my maintenence up to over 4000 Cals in a long growth period. It's just human physiology.

 

[CJ]

That loose skin may have to be surgically removed, just so you're aware. Totally cosmetic though, that's up to you.

 

[Send0]

Okay thanks guys, I'm happy to eat more and I appreciate the advice. But there is still a bunch of belly fat I can grab, and a little love handles and even some on my back (not much). How do I get rid of that while increasing calories?

honestly, it looks like loose skin that doesn't have the elasticity it once had.

Best way to try get rid of it, outside of surgery, is to put on mass.

 

[Kraken]

There is certainly loose skin, with fat under it. I do realize I'm stuck with it absent some surgery, I'll worry about that much later. I did forget to mention that I'm 59 years old with a back issue, but I'm pretty sure I can work around the back issue. I understand lifting heavy is the key.

I have been measuring my waist, neck and chest. Neck has been steady at just under 15 inches, chest has been steady at 36 but waist has fallen, currently at 31 inches measured at my navel. So I do think I have lost some belly fat, and I can fit into a bathing suit I couldn't take on vaca last December.

I'll add calories via protein starting at dinner.

 

[Kraken]

When I use a calculator to come up with maintenance (TDEE) calories, for activity level do I include strength workouts or just cardio? If I put "sedentary" it says 1,861 daily.

 

[CJ]

When I use a calculator to come up with maintenance (TDEE) calories, for activity level do I include strength workouts or just cardio? If I put "sedentary" it says 1,861 daily.

You have been tracking your calories, correct? Well THAT is accurate information, a calculator is just an average starting point. Do not use a calculator. You're past that point, don't go backwards.

Add calores based upon the calories that you have been consuming, and add to that based upon what your weight has done the last few weeks.